Spinner's End #23 - Deathly Hallows: A Passage Through the Veil

Discussion for Spinner's End #23 - Deathly Hallows: A Passage Through the Veil? (http://www.mugglenet.com/editorials/spinnersend/se23.shtml) by Lady Lupin.

Oh Cool! The first post!! So much to say, though, that I won't be first if I try to say it all now. So I'm gonna post this just to say "Another wonderful job" LL! I'll be back tomorrow (I hope!) to say more.

Absolutely wonderful (as usual) Lady Lupin. I have been disappointed with the editorials going up lately, as there has been little speculation, and alot of summarizing and recaps. It was nice to see some new, fresh, debate-able theorizing!!!

I felt the same way you did when I found out the title. The word association in my brain was in overdrive, and I thought "eerie, spooky, holy, Halloween, night, veils, graves, sacred,ghosts, consecrated", etc. Like you, I do not believe it bodes ill for Harry, though it does have a ring of finality to it, doesn't it?

There has been a lot of theorizing here on the boards, and most of what you mentioned has been suggested at one point or other---but you put it all together in such a succint way; your editorials are stories in and of themselves.

I like the idea of the veil playing a part; I REALLY think it will. As you stated, Halloween is always described as "the night when the veil between the living and the dead thins". I think it very significant. Somehow, the veil will come into play, as well as the locked room.

Also, the Hallows being holy consecrated things or people---definitely. I think the Hallows may be anything from our dearly departed James, Sirius, Lily, and Dumbledore, to the horcruxes themselves, as a kind of reverse (AKA "Deathly" Hallows). Even the horcruxes, though UHnoly, could be considered hallows I think, because of what destroying them represents. It also fits with the Arthurian hallows myth. But I see it just as likely that the Hallows may be benevolent forces as you stated. I think we just MIGHT see those that have passed on, once again. And what an amazing experience that will be for Harry.

Great editorial. Juicy stuff. :)

Finally!:)
Halloween has played an important part in all of the books, except for HBP. Yes, in OotP, there was something on Halloween (I think it was the release of Educational Degree #24), though it was not major. I like the idea of these two books, that have the most ties with alchemy, to not make Halloween important. Although, that could mean that the first Halloween in DH won't be important either. It would be wonderfull to have the series end on Halloween, though every climax has been during the summer, up until now. Ah well...

What is interesting is that you seem to think of the deathly hallows as persons (departed or not) in the last part of the editorial. What fascinates me is that they could still be objects or even places. I have absolutely no idea and frankly, I don't want to know. We already know a lot of the contents of book 7. I sort of regret having found out all the clues laid out in past books on the locket, because I will not enjoy that part of the book as much as I would. On the other hand, the speculation was great and book 7 will still leave me flabbergasted anyway. But... I think it's time now to hear that the book is finished, that it's approximately ... Chapters long, ... pages, maybe find out some chapter titles like last time... but I don't want to know much more on the content:p

And I liked reading an editorial that simply speculates and not presents clear answers for a change:)

Welcome back, Lady Lupin! I agree with your suggestions, especially that the "Deathly Hallows" don't necessarily have to be a threat to Harry & Co. I'm also tempted to think in terms of a graveyard. The burial places of heroes--chthonic deities--is quite important in Greco-Roman mythology and Dumbledore's tomb is at Hogwarts.

I don't think the word "Hallows" would refer to Horcruxes. They are made through murder and serve an evil purpose. Destroying them would be a good deed, whereas destroying something hallowed isn't.

Lady Lupin, you never cease to amaze me. I always love you editorials, as they are so well thought out, reaserched and written. I don't think I've ever read one where I haven't agreed with some or all of the points.
And 'Deathly Hallows: A Passage Through the Veil' hasn't changed that. Actually, a lot of the points you made, I'd also concidered myself on this thread The Deathly Hallows - Theories Relating to People & Places. (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=99373)
I whole-heartedly agree that the Deathly Hallows could be the souls/spirits of the dearly departed (whether that's Lily, James, Sirius, Dumbledore or the Hogwarts founders or a mixture of them all).
I also like the connections you made to Halloween and the Veil (both the physical veil in the Department of Mysteries and the figurative on that seperates the living from the dead.)
I strongly believe that Harry will recieve help in some way from those who have died and that this is what the title Deathly Hallows refers to.
I also like the idea that the spirts could be the souls off all the innocents Voldemort has killed. I'd actually quite like to see an army of ghosts/spirts/souls standing strong behind Harry to help him defeat Voldemort.
The other points that you made that interested me in this editorial were the ones about the Veil in the Department of Mysteries. I think that the two-way mirror will come into play again and agree with what you said about Harry using it to communicate with the dead or being able to safly pass through the Veil himself.
The other point you made was about Harry being able to destroy the Horcruxes using the Veil, it's an idea I'd never concidered before and the possibility excites me a lot.
I loved how you also tied the Department of Mysteries with the locked room and Harry finiding something out about Lily. It only seems fitting that the mother who sacraficed her life for her son would have some connection to his greatest power.
Over all, this editorial has painted a wonderful picture of what Deathly Hallows could hold for us readers. An image where I see Harry revieving help and guidance on Halloween from those he's loved and those who have gone before him.
As always, you work has been a pleasure to read and it's got my mind working over-time.
Keep up the great work, I cannot wait to see what you have instore for us before ours and Harry's journey is finally over.
~Clare

Excellent editorial! I've been hoping to see some editorials written about the Deathly Hallows, since I find it very tedious to search through discussion forums to get all the theories.
I like your idea of the founders being associated with Deathly Hallows; and also agree with Shewoman, that they could be a place, a graveyard. I like to think that the Deathly Hallows is a graveyard where the four founders are buried (possibly unplottable and protected by enchantments, but that's going a bit far on just another crackpot theory). To contradict myself, at least partially, I also like the idea of the veil and Department of Mysteries coming back into play (as little as I want to see Harry have to have any dealings with the MOM to get there). I wonder what would happen if Harry threw a horcrux through the veil? Would the piece of soul be removed and the object remain intact? I only mention this because if the founders do come back, it might make Harry's job of destroying the horcruxes more difficult: they may not wish for their prized possessions to be destroyed.
Anyway, thankyou for your (as always) wonderful editorial!

You sound so very sad writing this editorial. I think you didn't want to write it because the finality of the series is starting to set in. I think we are all sort of who cares what the theories are since we will find out soon, almost too soon. Tears on the computer keys.

Anyway I originally thought Hallows was a place, a deathly place. Then I thought deathly hallows were objects, that Harry would be shown and have to decide whether or not to use, since their use would be irrevocable.

I really like the originality of throwing a horcrux through a veil! That's a keeper, LL!

Then I anagramed Deathly Hallows and came up with The Lady Shows All, which I thought, of course she will! She, being our own JK, but also possibly being another lady of the series (Lily, Luna or Merope-we never really heard her side of the story.)

And lastly I do think the whole divinations thingy will come into play. Harry's destiny- yadayada . I can't wait and I hope the book is 5,000 pages long!

Lady Lupin, thank you for brightening my day with another ray of your well-considered speculation! :tu:

Clare, you got me thinking with your insightful comment:
I also like the idea that the spirits could be the souls of all the innocents Voldemort has killed. I'd actually quite like to see an army of ghosts/spirits/souls standing strong behind Harry to help him defeat Voldemort.
Jo has the habit of bringing back in a critical role something she tossed in at an earlier time--sometimes even "anvil-sized" hints that we could easily miss. Remember how the priori incantatem figures helped and defended Harry in GoF? Perhaps they are examples of deathly hallows and the decisive role they could play. Remember, too, how ghosts helped Harry in earlier books-- particularly Moaning Myrtle and Nick. And Harry's kindness at Nick's deathday party endeared him to the whole ghostly community.

Where will the deathly hallows come from and how will they act in DH? We don't know, but I'm willing to bet that Books 1-6 have something to tell us (somewhere).

Another thought... Voldemort's greatest fear is death. What wonderful irony if the dead prove to be valuable helpers in Harry's struggle against the Dark Lord!

Another great editorial and finally there is one up that offers real theories with real evidence backing it up. I'm never disappointed when I read a new Spinner's End.

Lady Lupin, you've given us an excellent, thought-provoking editorial once again! I find your idea that the Hallows are people to be very intriguing, though I had the feeling it was a place. Still, if you're right, that would certainly prove interesting. No matter what the truth is, great job with your theories. :clap:

Thank you for this new editorial, LadyLupin.

There are so many interesting points in it that it’s hard to know what to comment on. I particularly like some ideas that I had never read about before: Lily possibly being an unspeakable, Halloween possibly being associated with divination, time-travel … Wow.

There’s one particular point I would like to react about, since nobody has yet.

Will the founders return to participate in the final showdown? If so, what would Slytherin's role be? Considering his feelings about bloodline, he might not take kindly to Harry's side of the argument. However, though Slytherin seems to have been bigoted about ancestry, and though he stowed a giant, lethal snake in the bowels of a school, he hasn't been portrayed as a particularly evil or dark wizard. He and Gryffindor had been the best of friends prior to his parting. How would he feel about his last living descendent, and his plans for immortality and world domination? Impossible to say, but I would love to see what sort of help or hindrance might come from Slytherin.

Actually I’m not so sure that Harry being a half-blood would be so much of a problem for Slytherin, for one reason: Voldemort is also a half-blood.
He is even more a half-blood than Harry since one of his parents was a muggle, and, in spite of his blood-purity motto he sort of chose to remain an half-blood when he decided to use Harry’s blood to regenerate himself and not for instance Barty Crouch Sr.’s. As a matter of fact, he seems to only use the ideas about blood-purity to his own advantage and to consider the real purebloods as cretins who are only worthy to be his servants. He is the one who sent his last pureblood relative to his death in Askaban (and by doing so put Slytherin’s bloodline to an end) and who kept Slytherin’s ring as a trophy and desecrated it by making it a horcrux. And his horcrux-living memory has even gone as far as to use Slytherin’s basilisk for his own purpose in CoS disregarding completely the one reason why Slytherin had left it there in the first place.
So I highly doubt he would be keen to help his half-blood so-said Heir. And in this regard, I think Harry would seem more worthy to him since his being an half-blood is not so surprising since the Potters were never pureblood obsessives (unlike the Gaunts) and he was not in Slytherin’s house and did not cheat on his ideas about the issue.

I always love your editorials, Lady Lupin.

I suspect that the Deathly Hallows is the proper name of the room in which the veil resides, in the Department of Mysteries. We know that we will be returning there for some of the action, probably significant action.

Not that exciting, but I think it's a possibility.

Brava, Lady Lupin! Brava! I too have been thinking that the Deathly Hallows are people in some state of existence and that they are a positive force that will aid Harry. Great minds... ;)

And, Chas, your mentioning of the priori incantatem echos and their relation to the Deathly Hallows made a light bulb go on in my head: Harry's and Voldy's wands are likely to be made to battle again. I'm not saying a repeat of GoF, but I do think that it's probable.

One more note, I do apologize to anyone reading this post. I'm quite sleep deprived and not sure it makes much sense...

cheers,
la femme

Congratulations, Lady Lupin, on another wise, thoughtful and totally possible set of ideas. I have to say that from your first editorial, I have always been amazed at your depth of thought and your ability to bring together many ideas from the books to support your thinking.
This editorial grabbed me from your very first reference to deathly being eerie, mysterious and a significant choice of wording. I found myself agreeing with everything you proposed. Perhaps, it is the wording of this particular editorial that had me thinking, as someone else has posted, that you were sad--a feeling that all HP fans must have right now as we realize that the wonderful world Jo has created for us is about to come to an end.
I guess one of the things I like about your theorizing is your lack of ego. You don't seem to feel you have to be right but your ideas are far more plausible than many others out there. In fact, reading your thoughts often prompts me to go back and reread chapters with your perspective. You seem to propose that the mysterious, sacred past, Harry's as well as Hogwarts' will play a central role in the last book and will be central to Harry's quest for Horcruxes. I do think that's quite probable as is the role of the veil both in revealing something major at Halloween to help Harry as well as in his disposing of the Horcruxes. Suddenly, I don't care if the book comes out anytime soon although I can't wait to read it. Especially if you continue to share your theories with us. Please keep it up.

I can't really say much here that hasn't been said already but I'd like to say, Lady Lupin, thank you for another excellent editorial. You put it all down thoughtfully, and insightfully. I agree with you (and it looks like everyone else :relax: ) that the Deathly Hallows aren't looking all that evil or ill boding. I've always thought of them as a place, like a cave or something, all mysterious. That's might be because Hallow sounds a LOT like Hollow. Or because I think of the department of mysteries veil room too. Whatever it is, I feel that they're a place of sanctuary, or somewhere spiritual.

Thanks again Lady Lupin :cool:

(btw HP_Hedgehog, it would be awesome if the last book went over the standard one year wouldn't it :) )

Then I anagramed Deathly Hallows and came up with The Lady Shows All, which I thought, of course she will! She, being our own JK, but also possibly being another lady of the series (Lily, Luna or Merope-we never really heard her side of the story.)



..very clever!!!!


On another note, it never seemed as if Salazar was necessarily a bad person--the only reason he felt that 'pure blood' wizards should be the ones taught was because he didn't trust muggle borns because muggles persecuted wizards that time. So I think Slytherin would be likely to help Harry rather than Voldy.

Another excellent one by LadyLupin! So insightful!

I like all the ideas brought up, very interesting. I especially liked the connection to Halloween and how a lot of important things happen on that holiday. I think it would be very cool if the veil played some sort of role in the last book.

Shewoman- you bring up a good point as to why the 'hallows' are not the horcruxes. I like that, I was under the impression they were the horcruxes but now I'm inclined to agree with you.

Awesome theorizing!

I believe that you may have hit the proverbial nail on the head with the idea of returning
"hallows(saints)" - past victims of "V" who will help Harry . Thus the term "deathly". I agree with you that I do not instantly perceive the title as that which is deathly to Harry.

Excellent as always.

Dear LL,
You are a gem! It's always an event when a new SE essay is posted.

In puzzling over the meaning of "Deathly Hallows," it occurred to me to wonder whether JKR was referring to a PLACE or a TIME. I'm still not sure, but you made me consider yet another significant question -- "deathly" to whom? The most obvious answer is to Harry, yet what if she means to VOLDEMORT? Deathly, as in the time or place where he faces his greatest fear - death - at the hands of his prophesied enemy, supported by all those united by their love of Harry (the "power the Dark Lord knows not") and what is true and just.

Well done Lady Lupin. Another great editorial as usual.

I was wondering why the Deathly Hallows couldn't be a place, people (spirits) and objects at the same time as after all Hallows is plural and JK could be bringing up Deathly Hallows thoughout the book I suppose as something that has had us fooled all along.

I can't really see her making an army of spirits to help Harry as that would be too much like one the plotlines in Lord of the Rings where Aragorn took the Paths of the Dead to muster an army to help him. However it could be several spirits in the form of either the founders of Hogwarts, his parents, Sirius and Albus or those whose murders helped Voldemort make the Horcruxes or even all those whose deaths he was instumental in causing (either directly or indirectly)who could be out for revenge on Voldemort.

When I saw the title I immediately thought of an ancient church with a graveyard all misty and hushed - a bit like some scene out of a spooky movie. There are several old churches in the UK called All Hallows. Then I remember Alfonso C when he directed POA wanting to put in a graveyard and JK saying it wasn't where he wanted to put it but somewhere else which would come into play in a future book. Some people have said it could be Albus' grave and that as he was the only headmaster buried at Hogwarts that explains it. However I was thinking that the founders of Hogwarts could also be buried there and as there were four of them no one of them was the sole headmaster/mistress? This could explain why Albus was the first one. Also what about the ghosts at Hogwarts? Don't ghosts hang around near their graves? Former students who are now Hogwarts ghosts may possibly have been allowed to be buried there but we don't know anything about this yet.

I like the veil theory too and perhaps as on All Hallows Eve (which is Halloween) then Harry could do one of a few things. Either pass through the veil for a short time (like Hercules did to visit his dead wife and children) or could communicate with Sirius who may have had the other mirror on him when he fell through the veil. Or Harry could actually make out what the voices on the other side are saying and communicate with them. Or maybe the people behind the veil can come back out for a short time? After all the veil is supposed to be thinner on All Hallows Eve so anyone of these could be possible.

I also like the idea of the series ending on All Hallows Eve a it began with an incident then even if it means going over the one year of school time it would still be OK as it might hopefully bring a more satisfactory closure for the readers. However as JK naturally doesn't want others to write prequels and sequels to the Harry Potter series she may have to sadly kill Harry off in order to prevent any sequels being written. Unfortunately this of course won't stop some idiots from trying to cash in on Harry Potter for their own egotistical purposes. So maybe The Dealthly Hallows is All Hallows Eve but having a deathly air to it.

Welcome back, Lady Lupin. Another good editorial. This sentence from an earlier reply caught my attention.

I suspect that the Deathly Hallows is the proper name of the room in which the veil resides, in the Department of Mysteries.

I had not thought of this before. This quote, however, more closely follows my idea on what the Deathly Hallows may be.

I whole-heartedly agree that the Deathly Hallows could be the souls/spirits of the dearly departed (whether that's Lily, James, Sirius, Dumbledore or the Hogwarts founders or a mixture of them all).

This is also my theory although I am open to other options. I cannot wait or DH to be released.

I have gotten much thought and great enjoyment from your editorials. The two registered titles which were not used mentioning Hallows associated them with Hogwarts. Further, an old, two volume dictionary I use says the most common meaning of "Hallow" is a place set aside for a specific, usually religious purpose. As Slytherin had his COS, and it was known of, is it unreasonable to think the others did likewise? The Hallows of Hogwarts... Seems plausible to me.
Percival (Percy) means Pierce The Veil. So many of JKR's names prove apt, I think this one could as well...

Like everyone else to post before me, I love Lady Lupin and the Spinner's End column. My favorite portion of the editorial is the speculation of an appearance by Hogwarts' founders, particularly Lady Lupin's thoughts on Slytherin. Where would he stand on Harry vs Voldemort? Although Harry and LV are both half-blood, I agree with Lady Lupin that he would feel less sympathetic to Harry in regards to blood issues, because LV sees eye-to-eye with Slytherin, even if he isn't a pure-blood himself.

I kind of disagree with Lady Lupin when she proposes that Slytherin was never an "evil" wizard - just a bigot. Yes, he is a bigot, but I think leaving a basilik in Hogwarts with the intention of killing off "mudbloods" (which Lady Lupin actually mentions) is also bit evil, to say the least. Personally, I feel that his friendship with Gryffindor prior to their face-off at Hogwarts existed because of Gryffindor's willingness to see good in people (like Dumbledore) - just because Slytherin was friends with Gryffindor doesn't have to make him good.

Slight disagreement included, I think this latest editorial by Lady Lupin was fantastic!

Absolutly true! What im going to miss the most is the speculation and fellowship we Potterheads feel when we brain-storm together! Some of you made me lol:lol: , some of you made me mad:grumble: , and most of you made me think deeper.

I trully hope harry uses the veil, why did he and Luna only hear the voices, what do they have in common the others dont? Deaths.

In HBP Hermione reminds Hagrid that all the time turners were destroyed, that the Daily Prophet reported it when they broke into the D.M. Dont forget there appeared to be other ways to time travel, remember the bell jar room, lots of time travel stuff was around.

I thought the summer solstice or autumn feast was significant to the astromany side of the story. Stonehenge you know and all of that....but who knows? I can use that for a fan fic!:p

The veil mentioned again and again sparks the question... Why did Dumblelore's arm look dead after he had a run in with the ring horcrux? Yes it took Snape's incredible talent to same DD from dying, but never was it mentioned how. "It is a thrilling tale, I wish to do it to do it justice" (HBP pg 61 American HB edition). Hinting that it was something that Harry needed to know but we just didn't have time to cover right now? Might we hear this tale from the headmaster's portrait on Halloween? Would it have something to do with sticking an arm through the veil? It was repeatedly mentioned that the arm looked dead.

The other thing that just spooks me. JKR supposedly has the last chapter written. And it supposedly deals with the fate of "the survivors of the war". What if it is a visit to a grave by the survivors on the 2nd Halloween of the book? Acelebrated "hallowed" sight of a "saint".

What if What if What if..... I just can barely stand waiting!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Another good job Lady Lupin,

I particularly liked your idea about the Hogwarts founders falling into the category of Deathly Hallows. It seems that if one of the Horcruxes is made from either Gryfindor or Ravenclaw's possessions, then we must hear from or more about the Founders again. More information on them would be critical to tracking down that Horcrux, and some of your ideas about the Founder's role in DH is a perfect way to make the connection.

I am curious as to what role Halloween may play in the next book. It does seem to lead to the veil/communicating with the dead. My largest wonder is if Sirius is indeed whom Harry will speak with. Sirius has been dead for more then a year and it seems as though he could have already had the opportunity to reappear before Harry. This fact only slightly deters my belief that he is going to be seen again. After all, the timing of these events must be significant.

Lady Lupin, thank you for making me again sit and think about this topic for an hour or so after I finished reading this.

Two comments:

-It seems to me that Lily MUST have worked for the Department of Mysteries in the Love Room. This is the door Harry couldn't get through. But I have a feeling that although she might not've know if it would work, she knew exactly what she was doing when she died for Harry. Voldemort knows it too. He said in the graveyard that it was old magic. Something he should've foreseen. He should've foreseen it because he knew from trying to recruit the Potters (especially because Snape wanted Lily?) where she worked and what she studied. The Love Room.

-Regarding Halloween. In playing with the plot structure of the book, Halloween has been known to trigger events before (see about half the posts above me). What if Harry dreams about the Department of Mysteries again on Halloween. Or, perhaps they will call to him somehow on Halloween and he will go there. I don't think he will have trouble getting in, especially if he knew his mom worked in the door he was trying to get into. Surely the Ministry people would have some record of this or pehaps even know it themselves. Regardless, Harry will be drawn that door again, and he will open it.

cdmHPfan has a brilliant theory about possibly why DD's hand looked dead--putting it through the veil! Perhaps he was able to return only because so little of his body went through the veil and he was able to pull himself back away from it. We know from OotP that the veil was mesmerizing and only Hermione seemed able to resist it and she practically screamed at Harry and the others to move away. We also know that DD had amazing powers of thought and concentration. His portrait on the wall may need to tell Harry not only how his hand became "deadened" but also how to resist the pull of the veil. Perhaps, when the veil is the thinnest (All Hallows Eve?) it will allow Harry to either learn something about his quest or pass through without harm. At any other time of the year, the hazard will be greater. So, it is beginning to look (to me at least) that the veil will play a central part in Harry's success in DH.

Hello, SE Readers. I thought I would peruse our threads this morning and see how the discussion is going. Thanks for all of your comments. I love the idea of the Hallows as a place, and I have to say that didn't exactly occur to me that way. I saw the souls themselves, and though I imagined the place where we meet them to be "deathly" I didn't see it as the Hallows themselves. It may negate the whole editorial, but what are you gonna do?? :lol:

I apologize for being absent for a while. Many of you have emailed me as well, and though I am trying to catch up, I seem to be staying a full two months behind on email. I will answer, I promise. Work, holidays, work, my own book, the Shakespeare fund raising, WORK... don't these people realize I have Harry Potter to write about??? :grumble:

Perhaps the Hallows are both the place where we'll meet departed souls and the souls themselves. And those of you that mentioned the Hogwarts graveyard - great catch! I think that, given the comments that Jo made to Curazon, we will certainly hear something about a graveyard. Seems a good place to contact the founders.

Thanks everyone, for reading and commenting. Here's to a hallowed and Potterful 2007.

Accio DH,

Lady Lupin

while you make no claim that any of your theories may come to fruition, they are consistently, if not prophetic, interesting. even when you just shoot speulation off the top of your head, Lady Lupin, reading your editorials is never a waste of time.

I was wondering why the Deathly Hallows couldn't be a place, people (spirits) and objects at the same time as after all Hallows is plural and JK could be bringing up Deathly Hallows thoughout the book I suppose as something that has had us fooled all along. My first impression, too, was both that it was a place (directly) and indirectly related to other things like the founders, the dearly departed, and even the horcruxes; though Shewoman is talking me out of that one! LOL But Lady Lupin has slightly revived the thought of the title pertaining to horcruxes by telling us that the "hallow" definition of holy was narrowed down later. Though the horcruxes are evil and not hallowed at all in terms of holy, horcruxes do involve a portion of soul - a spirit as it were - and so the title could encompass that search as well. I tend to think that Jo is able to craft a title that both deals with something specific and also an overall theme or thrust of the book as well. After all, the Philosopher's Stone was a specific item, yet the object itself was a driving force behind the entire book, in that Harry and his friends had to discover what it is, that it was hidden at Hogwarts, find out why, where, and who was after it. They also had to relate it to strange occurrences throughout the year (troll on Halloween anyone?) and finally reach the conclusion, whereupon the actual stone was achieved. However, on a more philosophical note, considering the alchemical tones in the series, Harry's own character could also be looked at in terms of a philosopher's stone. After all, only a pure heart could have allowed him to stand in front of the Mirror of Erised to claim the created Stone, thus Harry's character (at least for that year) reached its own philosopher's stone-place. I suppose what I'm taking a REALLY long time to say (*insert snoring smiley*) is that book 1's title isn't just "Harry Potter and the large, ruby red object created by Nicholas Flamel" but involves both the literal stone and the entire process and journey towards it. Translating this to book 7, it's very plausible that "Deathly Hallows" is both a specific object/place/person(s) AND the journey to/through it or a few different specific objects/places/people. Certainly Order of the Phoenix is a specific group of people, but the title isn't limited to Harry finding out about this organization and their initial meeting. And the HBP being Snape encompasses the scene on the tower as much as it does the potions book. I sincerely hope this makes sense! :lol:

winkee, I really like the idea of "Deathly Hallows" being the name of the room where the veil is. Certainly, I think Harry (and maybe his pals too) are likely to take an underworld journey of some type and the veil seems the likely point of entry.

Great thoughts, everyone! I like the one on Dumbledore's hand possibly resulting from an excursion with the veil, though he seems to credit the curse on the ring for his injury - I still like the veil potential there! :D And the Priori Incantatem clue - good job, Chas!

With regards to time travel, we never did find out about Dumbledore's mysterious and very different watch, with no numbers but 12 hands moving around the planets. Ron, if I recall correctly, received a similar watch for his coming of age present. Perhaps this device can allow for time travel? Or, perhaps even though the Ministry time-turners were destroyed, there are some on the underground market? We're due for a run-in with Mundungus at some point! :elaugh:

Hi, LadyLupin!! It's great to hear from you again and to read such well organized theories on HP and the DH.

I've skimmed some of the forums discussing theories, but like Grindelwaldspet I find it tendious.
The first thought is of course that they are the horcruxes because we know that that's going to be the most basic plot of book 7, but for "Deathly Hallows" to only be another word for Horcruxes is pretty weak, and I give JKR more credit that that.
I do find it hard to think of the DH as things though, and people (living or dead) seem to make more sense. That or a place.
I agree with you on the veil connection, especially on All Hallow's Eve, and that Sirius, Lily, James, and Dumbledore are the most likely candidates for communication. The founders I haven't thought of before, but I like that. :D
Especially with machiavelle's "The Lady Shows All" which could simply mean JKR will tie up the loose ends, but I am such a big fan of Ravenclaw playing a much bigger part this time around that I am speculating (without much basis, I'm sorry) that Rowena Ravenclaw will help Harry greatly, perhaps she has information for him that is neccessary for him to continue on the horcrux journey, whether the info comes from her directly or Luna or her item=horcrux.
I also, like others have said, like the idea of it being a graveyard of somesort, I don't know.....

I would love to hear some more theories though!!

Greetings fellow posters...

I really did want to get in on this discussion, but will have to wait. Since my "first" post I've come down with a horrible cold. Man, do I feel lousy! But I really hated the idea of anyone thinking I only posted so I could have the first post. Nooo... not by a long shot. LL, your stuff is too good to sit out!

Till I feel better,
Emerald


PS - Oh Cool! New smilie faces to choose from!!! Just what I needed to make me, er, smile.

:argh: for being sick and...

:wave: and :huggles: to justaHPfan and Shewoman!

:cool:

Wow, great editorial, as always; and great responses, as always.

I have two thoughts. If LV has the inferii, could 'deathly hallows' be some sort of anti-inferii? Like an army of souls vs an army of reanimated dead bodies? But that does seem too Lord of the Rings....

The other thought is that Luna is very important. She is the only other one who heard voices, finds that completely normal, and...had a mother who was a 'very gifted witch' . Like Lily, perhaps? In Gof F, Lily's spirit was the one that told Harry what to do. Luna seems to have a natural connection to the 'other world' that could be useful.

I loved your editorial and thoughts on the title, especially the idea of a passageway. I agree with your the impression that "hallows" might mean something "revered" rather than onimous. I find your thoughts about it being the founders interesting, although, with many posters, believe it to be a place. I have pondered the idea that it has something to do with the graveyard at Hogwarts.
Originally Posted by machiavelle

Then I anagramed Deathly Hallows and came up with The Lady Shows All, which I thought, of course she will! She, being our own JK, but also possibly being another lady of the series (Lily, Luna or Merope-we never really heard her side of the story.)
I also anagramed Deathly Hallows and came up with "The Old Hallways" which suggests a "passage." I do believe it will lead to a place Harry will learn something that will help him vanquish LV.

I love your editorials and ideas. Thanks for taking the time!

.

SoccerDM, in some mythologies the dead can't make appearances until they've been dead a year. They need to acclimate to what they are now and become strong before they can visit our side.

Justa, I live to mess with your mind.

All Saints' Day (Hallows) is on the day after Halloween. That's why it's the "eve" of all hallows (saints). Sorry, I'm picky like that.

Anyway, I like your idea about the Hallows being the founders. I do not see them as bad either, primarily because they're hallows and because it's "deathly," not "deadly."

But I do have just as much confusion about the title as anyone. Honestly, it seems kind of redundant. "Deathly," though - I have to disagree with you - does indeed have a negative connotation. In fact, no one uses "deathly," except in literary description, really in any other way than saying, "deathly ill." If "hallow" is to be used as a noun (and I think in the dictionary it's not officially), it would either mean "hallowed spirits," or I have seen it in literature as meaning "hallowed grounds."

For some reason, I lean towards it being a place, because "hallowed spirits" would be people who were saint-like in life (in my mind). It could be the world beyond the veil or something as mundane as a cemetery.

My prediction: We will all be completely wrong! Or maybe we should all listen to the the most unpopular opinion and assume that's right. Honestly, I think this is the vaguest title yet, and I eagerly expect a shocking revelation.

Justa, I live to mess with your mind.
:lol: Thanks! It's nice to have a pink panther-esque portion to your life... *always be on the lookout for Kato*
I also anagramed Deathly Hallows and came up with "The Old Hallways" which suggests a "passage."
I love this as the word "hallows" to me made me think of the "hallowed" halls of learning - I expect the Deathly Hallows to have much to do with Hogwarts.

Lady Lupin,

Nice to see you working so hard on our behalf! Since learning of the title I have been waiting for your insightful comments; as usual you bring interesting details into play regarding potential outcomes. My favorite of the week is that DH (a physical place) is located within the department of mysteries, however, my take is that this makes sense if Harry is to not just find, but destroy, horcruxes. My assumption is that a few of the interesting items found lying around the department may be helpful in destroying the horcurxes and that the DH may act as a counterpoint/counterbalance (neutralizer?) to the horcruxes. Swinging bi-polar the other way, I like even better that the DH are to be found on Hogwarts(potential cemetary/armory); I like the idea that there is a helpful, soulful army waiting to be mobilized on behalf of Harry. Perhpas, unlike Tolkien's vaporous army, they could be used as horcux detectors - being souls themselves.....

Regardless, it is bittersweet to realize that all of our speculations will be put to rest soon.

Thanks again LL and thanks to all who post - great insights!


I

Loads of good points above, and I heartily agree with all the comments on Lady Lupin's editorial writing, it's marvellous! :clap:

For my own two cents, I don't think the climax of the book will be in the Department of Mysteries. This is for the simple reason that we (that is, Harry) have never yet re-visited any of the locations of the showdowns in any of the books so far. We have never seen the labyrinth of rooms below the third floor, the Chamber of Secrets, the Shrieking Shack, the graveyard at the Riddle House or the Ministry of Magic since the books in which they appear, and I very much doubt we'll be seeing the Cave of the Locket again. It is possible that the veil will reappear, but it can't possibly be at the series finale, as it has already had its moment in OotP. Maybe it will appear at Halloween though - and I do like the idea of the series ending on Halloween, Jo has broken convention before!

I don't know that we should get our hopes up that the dead (be they the founders, Sirius, Dumbledore or anyone else) will be able to do very much. JK has always emphasised the finality of death, and so I doubt they will be the ones to take centre stage and defeat the Death Eaters or whatever. I don't believe the two-way mirrors will be used to talk to the dead, as Harry has already tried that. I don't think any of the other things in the Time Room would have been used for time travel, so that's unfortunately out unless Mundungus actually does have a few Time Turners up his sleeve!

"Deathly" for me does not suggest anything necessarily to do with death itself, merely something that seems reminiscent of it, such as "deathly quiet". I think that the Deathly Hallows are things we haven't come across yet. Just as the Half Blood Prince was not a prince, the Hallows could be anything from crypts underneath Azkaban Prison to the latest chart rivals of the Weird Sisters!:huh::D

I have thought that Harry would go into the Veil and that he would meet all his dead loved ones - the Deathly Hallows could be the place behind the Veil. However since I have had this idea for years, two at the very least, I just don't think that this could could be possible because, surely, it must then be too obvious. And I don't want Harry Potter to be obvious! It can't be a place behind the Veil. I no longer believe that Harry will have contact with people from behind the grave, it is far too cliched and I don't think that we will finish off in the DoM for the reasons Andromeda_T said. For me the Deathly Hallows is a graveyard, the one in which the Potters are buried. It is hallowed ground and is deathly in the safe but eerie way that you said. Anyway as always you've given me plenty of ideas to think about. Good editorial.

As mikeg who is from Scotland (where JK now resides and Hogwarts is) Hallows is the old Scottish term for a graveyard (see What are the Deathly Hollows forum). I must admit I'd forgotten that fact but now think that this could be a pointer to the title. There are a graveyards which are quite significant. The one we have seen in GOF. The one where Harry's parents are buried but most significantly of all the one Alfonso C wanted to put in POA and JK said it was a different placd to where he wanted it and would come into play later - the one at Hogwarts where we might find that a founder of Hogwarts or two might be interred and their graves might somehow give up something to help Harry vanquish Voldemort in some way.

I think that in this case "Deathly Hallows" DOESN'T refer to the people behind the veil. I understand how those people can be viewed as Hallowed, but I don't know how they could be considered a "deathly" if they are already dead. I think that the Hallows has to be something alive. If an object is "living" then it can be deathly but if something is dead then can it really be deadly? I think that the Deathly Hallows is the graveyard at Hogwarts or Voldemort's Horcruxes. Horcruxes make sense, they're "Hallowed" because they are pertaining to souls, which is holy, but they're also deathly because he had to kill people to make the Horcruxes.

Interesting theories... I think the imagery that the words evoke is making us all crazy with anticipation. After reading everything though, I am starting to think the hallows are the sacred PLACES in which Voldemort killed people to make his horcruxes.
Godric’s Hollow
Riddle Cemetery
Riddle House-
Hogwart’s Cemetary
They may also be the places in which the horcruxes still lie…Nagini could still be in the Riddle House…the cup portkey in the Riddle Cemetery could be the cup of Hufflepuff.
I think that Harry will have to go to these places (deathly hallows) and “talk” to the people Voldemort killed to get the horcrux. It makes sense that he killed Cedric and Cedric was a hufflepuff…he can help Harry…perhaps by communicating through the veil or via Sirius who has the other mirror.

I also think that the OTHER mirror…the mirror of ERISED is a Ravenclaw Horcrux. It could be hid somewhere in Godric’s Hollow…which I believe is the ancestral home of Albus Dumbledore and Godric Gryffindor. Dumbledore said it was somewhere safe…and maybe that is what he meant.

"Deathly" for me does not suggest anything necessarily to do with death itself, merely something that seems reminiscent of it, such as "deathly quiet". I think that the Deathly Hallows are things we haven't come across yet.
This is really good - and does lend credence to the idea of a graveyard. Certainly, those are "deathly" in that sense. Loved the comment about the Weird Sisters, by the way. :elaugh: Good insight, though, on us not revisiting "old haunts" (couldn't help myself) and climaxes not being rehashed. Although I do think we will revisit the DoM again (we have to) and I do think the veil will be important, the climax to 7 won't likely be a rehash.

What about the two-way mirrors being used by the living (e.g. Harry & Ron) so that Harry can travel through the veil yet still maintain contact with his living friends on the other side?

LunionePotter, great idea! :clap:

just wanted to pass along that in the end of oop harry found the mirror when packingto go back to the dursleys in the bottom of his trunk which led him to track down headless nick to see if sirius could come back as a ghost etc. harry thru the mirror back in his trunk and it shattered. I don't think that the mirror comment would work.

Repairo!

Great editorial, LL. I have been really foward to hearing your opinion on DH. However, I do tend to agree with some of the earlier posts. I believe a graveyard is involved. Specifically the graveyard at Azkaban. I believe DD made references to it in HBP about Morphin and many others being buried in a graveyard next to the prison. I feel Harry is headed there. JKR has made too many references to the Azkaban for Harry not to go there. I believe Harry may go to just get info from Draco's Dad or others then stumble on the graveyard. There is someone out there that will help him that we don't know about yet. In the middle of the Dept of MIinisry is a statue of 5 wizarding entities . We have seen help from 3 (i.e. DD, Dolby, and Firenze) We still need a beautiful witch and a goblin. That statue holds a lot of significance in the final battle. The wizarding world must come together to defeat Voldemort.
I only hope we are not left waiting too long to find out .

I love the idea of destroying the Horcruxes by passing them through the veil.

OOh, so many excellent ideas! I love the idea that the DH's are the graveyard of Harry's parents... as to where it may be... Hogwarts or Godrics is clearly a plot point...

Greetings, fellow HP Sleuthers!

Here are my thoughts on the latest Spinner's End... before reading the other posts, which might change them all! :lol:

Ever so enjoyable a read, as usual, Lady Lupin. :tu: And I'm with you 100% about the nature of the "hallows."
It is interesting that I see them as benevolent forces, whereas most of the readership seems to see the title as boding ill for Harry - a bad omen...

I just have a hard time imagining a proficient linguist and classicist such as JKR using a word that means holy, sanctified or venerated to describe a malevolent force.We all know Jo loves her red herrings - what better place to put one than in the TITLE of the last book? :eyebrows:


Also, regarding this:
Will the Deathly Hallows continue to be a presence throughout the book, or will we not see or hear of them again until later? Most of the title objects come and go throughout the books, they're not usually present at every moment. So I think we will see the hallows spread out in Book 7 as well.


I really liked your comment that the main "characters" (those people or things associated with the titles) usually show up around Halloween. That in itself could be a clue towards the whole series. What with those characters as well as James and Lily's murders all pointing us to the day when our world and the Otherworld interact, some sort of interaction seems almost inevitable. So it does sound as though our first glimpse as to what a "deathly hallow" really is will be on Halloween as well.


Halloween was called both All Souls Day and All Saints Day at various times through history.It's my understanding that in our times All Saints Day refers to November 1st, while All Souls Day refers to November 2nd. (Just so no one gets confused when November rolls around again. :) )


Time itself can be breached on this night, and some old stories speak of time travel associated with the meeting of life and afterlife. Will time turners or divination come into play in some way again? If so, expect it on Halloween.From my own understanding of ancient Celtic belief and its modern day interpretations, I know that any contact with the Otherworld (the world beyond The Veil) can alter one's sense of time, not just those that occur on Halloween. While such contacts were widespread on Halloween (or Samhain [SOW-en] as the Celts called it), they did take place at other times. One might accidentally stumble upon a "Faerie Mound" or one of the denizens of the Otherworld, one of the Celtic Gods or Goddesses, might visit our realm and choose to take a human back with them to theirs. In either case, if the human returned to our world (usually only for a visit), much more time would have passed here than they would have guessed before arriving. One hour in the Otherworld might have been one day here, a week might be several years, a year might be several lifetimes. Most humans who ended up in the Otherworld without first dying could not return to our world for good. But there were instances of Celtic heroes being taken to the Otherworld and being allowed to return to their own time and place unchanged. Often they brought back advice or new knowledge from the ancestors or gods, and sometimes they even brought back magical objects.

I've thought for a long time that this will happen with Harry. (I even wrote an unpublished editorial about it: "A Celtic Solution to Harry's Conundrum.") JKR has said her characters don't come back from the dead. But she has allowed a few ways for their advice to linger after their passing, especially through the headmasters' portraits, which I believe are taken directly from the Celtic practice of keeping the heads of their leaders and honored ancestors for just such use. I have no trouble with Harry somehow finding magical means to receive aid from his honored predecessors (in addition to the portraits) and, in essence, visiting the Otherworld. Given he is a hero, he can do so without huge amounts of time passing in the Potterverse, and he might even return with more than advice. And he wouldn't have to die himself to do so.

Since an alteration in one's sense of time is already a feature of Otherworld visits, perhaps time turners won't be needed in Book 7. There is the difficulty of Hermione saying that they were all destroyed in the DoM battle, although the MoM may not have been the only source for them. Even if there could be others, though, maybe the reason we even saw them to begin with was simply to bring in the concept of time travel. Maybe it will happen again without the mechanical aid of time turners.


If indeed the Hallows are some eternal form of the departed who can somehow lend Harry help, who might they be? The obvious choices are Sirius, Dumbledore, James and Lily. These four people had more personal investment in Harry than anyone else, and would do anything in their power to help him. They also all died as a result of Voldemort's evil, regardless of who cast the spell....

Will the founders return to participate in the final showdown....

Finally, it occurs to me that the countless witches and wizards have been innocent victims of Voldemort's greed and ambition. Will they all manage to breach the veil in some way to help Harry defeat his enemy?This put me in mind of the last time dead people who hadn't become ghosts were able to aid Harry - during Priori Incantatem in GoF. So many people seem to think that Harry and Voldy's wands can't duel, which obviously is not true given the spells they tossed at one another in the graveyard. The trouble lies in two of their spells connecting in mid-air - that's when PI occurs. I think each character has a lot of attachment to his wand and I don't see either of them procuring a new one in order to duel more efficiently. PI was actually a great boon for Harry and Voldy seems bright enough to already have put some thought into how to get around it next time. (Like say, maybe, not giving your enemy back his wand? :err: ) If PI does happen, anyone Voldemort has personally killed since the graveyard scene will be brought back for a short time. This would include Amelia Bones, the former head of the MoM's Magical Law Enforcement Department, if Voldy did in fact kill her personally. She would prove a fantastic ally for Harry.

But I think you're right, LL. Somehow people other than those killed personally by Voldemort may come back. Harry may have as many hallowed allies at his side as live ones, and perhaps as many as Voldy has unhallowed ones, such as Inferi.

I just wonder what would happen if PI were to occur from Harry and Voldemort casting the same spell at each other. An opening of all the gateways to the Otherworld, so all of Voldemort's victims might return to help Harry whether Voldy had done them in himself or not? I mean, if simply having two unlike spells connect can cause brother wands to bring back some dead, what might the same spells do??? :whistle:

I mean, if simply having two unlike spells connect can cause brother wands to bring back some dead, what might the same spells do???
Interesting question. I don't have an answer, of course, (then why bother writing?!) but I do see that this has been left open for sure. Although, I can't imagine any other spell except AK thrown by Voldemort at Harry and I sincerely hope that Harry doesn't send one back - though, if anyone is to be the recipient of said curse from Harry, it should be V. Back to the topic! :lol: I suppose "expelliarmus" might be muttered by both...

I realize the thrust of the series to deal with death and understand its finality, but the more I read here, the more I find it fitting that the "echoes" (think PI here) of the departed would be a perfect match for the Inferi. Not that it's a la Lord of the Rings or anything, but in essence, why not? The idea of these reanimated corpses (say it with me, eww!) that are essentially the walking dead. How do you fight one except with fire? (Love the Gryffindor symbolism in that!) But I do think it would be really cool (and fitting) to pit the dead against the dead - one from the darkness and one from the light. Jo's creative enough to do this without us thinking of Aragorn. :)

Well I've read the whole thread now and... WOW! again... what a wealth of ideas on everyone's part. :cool:

I would like to point out that ages ago Brandon Ford discussed Harry throwing the horcruxes through The Veil in one of his "Underground Lake" columns. I believe this was the first place the idea was discussed in depth.


Another thought... Voldemort's greatest fear is death. What wonderful irony if the dead prove to be valuable helpers in Harry's struggle against the Dark Lord!Chas, I love this! "Stupified" wouldn't begin to describe the look on his face!! And I bow to your mention of PI before my own. :)


I suspect that the Deathly Hallows is the proper name of the room in which the veil resides, in the Department of Mysteries. We know that we will be returning there for some of the action, probably significant action.

Not that exciting, but I think it's a possibility.Excitement is overrated. But intrigue... is ever appealing. And you have quite the intriguing notion there, winkee. :tu:


I'm still not sure, but you made me consider yet another significant question -- "deathly" to whom? The most obvious answer is to Harry, yet what if she means to VOLDEMORT?book 1's title... involves both the literal stone and the entire process and journey towards it. Translating this to book 7, it's very plausible that "Deathly Hallows" is both a specific object/place/person(s) AND the journey to/through it...I've been wondering if maybe the "hallows" mentioned in the title is a verb after all, or refers to acts rather than, or in addition to, physical things. Perhaps Harry will have to "hallow" the horcruxes, make them holy again (they are founders objects, supposedly) by removing Voldemort's soul fragments from them. If so, then just as in PS/SS the title would refer to a process and not just the final object.


With regards to time travel, we never did find out about Dumbledore's mysterious and very different watch, with no numbers but 12 hands moving around the planets. Ron, if I recall correctly, received a similar watch for his coming of age present.Oh good job, yourself, Justa! I've always thought there just has to be something more to those watches. :cool:


...machiavelle's "The Lady Shows All"... I am speculating (without much basis, I'm sorry) that Rowena Ravenclaw will help Harry greatly, perhaps she has information for him that is neccessary for him to continue on the horcrux journey, whether the info comes from her directly or Luna or her item=horcrux."Without much basis"? We don't need no stinkin' basis; we're HP fanatics! :elaugh:

Could the "Lady" of "The Lady Shows All" be the Grey Lady, the Ravenclaw house ghost? I've kinda wondered if she actually is Ravenclaw...


Andromeda_T]I don't know that we should get our hopes up that the dead (be they the founders, Sirius, Dumbledore or anyone else) will be able to do very much. JK has always emphasised the finality of death, and so I doubt they will be the ones to take centre stage and defeat the Death Eaters or whatever.This is a good point. However, we still have Jo's mysterious interview comment that she can't say much about her religion or she'll give away too much. She's said she's Christian. What's so mysterious about that? The religion's precepts are well known. Maybe it's her own views on death she didn't want to talk about; perhaps they are based in her faith. What I'm getting at is that maybe she believes in ghosts or other spirits being able to sometimes contact us or just make their presence felt. That would tie in to Christianity in that Jesus was crucified, yet his spirit is always with those who believe in him. Jo's mother died fairly young. Maybe she feels her mother's presence and is comforted and strengthened by it. Maybe she wants that for Harry, too.

They might not be able to "do" much physically, but spirits could be of enormous help to Harry anyway. The mere "echo" of his parents gave him tremendous courage in the graveyard. Without their comments he would never have known to keep holding on to his wand with all his might. And without their instruction on when to let go, and their intervention as he escaped, Harry would very likely not have survived the duel.


As mikeg who is from Scotland (where JK now resides and Hogwarts is) Hallows is the old Scottish term for a graveyard (see What are the Deathly Hollows forum). I must admit I'd forgotten that fact but now think that this could be a pointer to the title. There are a graveyards which are quite significant. The one we have seen in GOF. The one where Harry's parents are buried but most significantly of all the one Alfonso C wanted to put in POA...Thank you for this - good to know! And thank mikeg, too!! And yes, there have been a number of hints at graveyards as well as DD's final resting place.


What about the two-way mirrors being used by the living (e.g. Harry & Ron) so that Harry can travel through the veil yet still maintain contact with his living friends on the other side?Well now there's a cool idea about the mirrors. I'd never really gotten on board with Harry talking to Sirius through one since it's just so unlikely he had one on him when he died. But Harry might take one to him and then get the other back from Ron when he returns. That could work, too.


I can't imagine any other spell except AK thrown by Voldemort at Harry and I sincerely hope that Harry doesn't send one back... I suppose "expelliarmus" might be muttered by both...Yeah... that's the one I had in mind. :agree: If Voldy realizes this time around that he needs to get the Potter kid's wand away from him (and not give it back!), then both he and Harry, who uses Expelliarmus quite often and quite effectively, might cast it at the same moment. The whomping irony would be that they'd both still have their wands, but neither would be able to do anything with them, as the spells had each intended!

forgive me this a half formed thought i got as i was reading . i'm useless at this theory game and i'm sorry if its been mentioned before.

okay, taking the thought that the deathly hallows are spirits, could they be the departe souls of the people who murders voldemort performed to make the horcuxes (sp?).

and taking it further could they return give harry advice on how to rid their own piece of voldemort?

first time i have commented here but i always love lady lupins writtings :)

It's my understanding that in our times All Saints Day refers to November 1st, while All Souls Day refers to November 2nd. (Just so no one gets confused when November rolls around again. :) )

Where I live All Saints' Day is 1 November and All Souls' Day is 31st October. I had a suspicion that All Hallows' day was All Souls' day, but reading this thread it could easily be that Hallowe'en really means the Eve of All Hallows i.e. day before All Hallows, meaning Hallows = Saints.

I'd prefer Hallowe'en to mean the Evening which belongs to the Hallows, but I guess I'm being to hopeful.

I have gotten much thought and great enjoyment from your editorials. The two registered titles which were not used mentioning Hallows associated them with Hogwarts. Further, an old, two volume dictionary I use says the most common meaning of "Hallow" is a place set aside for a specific, usually religious purpose. As Slytherin had his COS, and it was known of, is it unreasonable to think the others did likewise? The Hallows of Hogwarts... Seems plausible to me.
Percival (Percy) means Pierce The Veil. So many of JKR's names prove apt, I think this one could as well...

Or perhaps Albus PERCIVAL Wulfuric Brian Dumbledore may pierce the veil?

Great editorial LL! (as always)
---from another Woman of a certain age

This is a good point. However, we still have Jo's mysterious interview comment that she can't say much about her religion or she'll give away too much. She's said she's Christian. What's so mysterious about that? The religion's precepts are well known. Maybe it's her own views on death she didn't want to talk about; perhaps they are based in her faith. What I'm getting at is that maybe she believes in ghosts or other spirits being able to sometimes contact us or just make their presence felt. That would tie in to Christianity in that Jesus was crucified, yet his spirit is always with those who believe in him. Jo's mother died fairly young. Maybe she feels her mother's presence and is comforted and strengthened by it. Maybe she wants that for Harry, too.

Christians believe that yes, but also that they were sent the"holy spirit" to be with them always and to provide strength. I think it is the Holy Spirit, or as it was known as, Holy Ghost to watch over them that I thought of when you wrot this.

I keep peeking back and forth on this thread and getting caught in individual comments. I promise to read them and restrain myself until I can make a coherent response in stead of all these "OOOOh OHHH" snipits! :tu: You guys are just to insightful:tu:

Great editorial! I definately agree with a lot of the specualation because it is very similar to many of my speculations. =)
I believe that the Veil will play a BIG role in the final book. I agree that, especially with the new title, the Veil just seems to fit with were the plot is going. However, I find it problematic that it will be used to destroy horocuxes. At first, I though that was how Dumbledore had destroyed the ring. It would makes sense that putting his arm through the Veil would "kill" his arm. But then I wondered, "why didn't he just throw the ring in the Veil? Or, tie it to a broomstick(or something long =)) and put it in the Veil that way?" So, unless there is some inate characteristic of the Veil that has not been described to use that we will only find out in the next book, I dont think the Veil will be what kills the horocruxes. Also, I wonder why the Ministry would let Dumbledore use the Veil with out asking questions. I have been thinking that maybe Dementors can suck a soul out of a Horocrux? Who knows.

Anyway, since I believe the Veil will play a huge role, it also makes me think that the Love Room will also play a big part. Especially with as much emphasis is put on "Love" in the books. Any speculation as to what the role might be? I havnt been able to come up with much.

Finally, I DO think that the two-way mirrors will be important. Not only to contact Sirius, but also Regulas (for those of us who believe that Regulus is RAB). So that may be an interesting twist. Any thoughts?

After re-reading the various posts, a twist on the title interpretation is (again) necessary. What if, like the title "half blood prince", "Deathly Hallows", is several things...in HBP the title was both an enlightenment and a person (the potions book as a guide - SS as a traiter). This may mean that Deathly Hallows may be both the "quest for the horcruxes" which takes our hero(s) to specific places, as well as a description of some new character. Baby dementors anyone? A reflection on all of Jo's titles now looks multifaceted/multilayered in hindsight. Will I ever have this much fun again with a series?

forgive me this a half formed thought i got as i was reading . i'm useless at this theory game and i'm sorry if its been mentioned before.

okay, taking the thought that the deathly hallows are spirits, could they be the departe souls of the people who murders voldemort performed to make the horcuxes (sp?).

and taking it further could they return give harry advice on how to rid their own piece of voldemort?Greetings beth83 and others! Not to worry about "half-formed thoughts" or things that have been mentioned before. So many threads cover so many ideas more than once, and we all have ideas fly at us so fast and furious, that almost everyone has done what you apologized for. So... there's no need to apologize! :)

I've seen the idea that the DH might be the departed horcrux murder victims. But I have'nt seen the idea that they might give Harry advice of that sort. I mentioned in an earlier post that intrigue is always appealing. Yupper, that's an intriguing idea you've got! :tu: :agree:



Where I live All Saints' Day is 1 November and All Souls' Day is 31st October. I had a suspicion that All Hallows' day was All Souls' day, but reading this thread it could easily be that Hallowe'en really means the Eve of All Hallows i.e. day before All Hallows, meaning Hallows = Saints.

I'd prefer Hallowe'en to mean the Evening which belongs to the Hallows, but I guess I'm being to hopeful.Hello to you in Belgium, MoodyMuggle! I think you've got it right - Hallowe'en does belong to the Hallows, even though it's the night before All Hallow's Day. In Celtic times days were reckoned from sunset to sunset, meaning that sunset on Halloween was the beginning of the "day" (the time period) devoted to the ancestors, and it lasted through that night and the daylight hours that followed all the way until the following sunset. Also, ancestors were venerated by the Celts. They weren't considered scary as ghosts are sometimes considered today. To the Celts, the spirits of their ancestors were all "hallowed." So ghosts/spirits and what we would consider the night before the Day of the Hallows really all do go together.

I seem to remember hearing a version where the souls of people who died during the year (or some of them, anyway) couldn't pass through The Veil until the first Hallowe'en after their death. So, if you think about it, during the daylight hours of what we call Hallowe'en their souls would still be souls. But by the next morning, after the Eve, they would have been able to pass over and would then be considered "hallowed" since they were officially in the after life.

The biggest reason I have for thinking All Saint's Day is November 1st and All Soul's Day is November 2nd is because of celebrations that take place in Mexico, on my side of "the pond," as the British refer to the Atlantic Ocean sometimes. Much of Mexican culture still incorporates pre-Columbian beliefs, including veneration of the ancestors and seeking their guidance from the after life (just like the Celts). I know I'll mangle this spelling, but it/they (the days) are referred to as Dios des los Muertos - "Day(s) of the Dead." As I understand it, this is technically All Soul's Day on November 2nd, although the whole week leading up to (or following? both?) includes celebrations. Sweet baked goods and candies in the shape of skulls and skeletons are very popular, as are similar decorations and costumes. Families spend time tending to their loved ones' graves and will often picnic at the cemetery, eating alongside the graves in order to "share" a meal with the dead.

Something similar originiated in Celtic areas of Europe in pre-Christian days and is still practiced after a fashion today, though many people have lost an understanding of why such things are done. Decorations take the shape of ghosts, witches, devils, etc. Now adays that's for our entertainment. Back then it would have been to ward off the wrong sorts of spirits. Since the Celts believed different types of entities could cross over on Hallowe'en, not just ghosts, Jack-o-Lanterns were made to fool evil spirits into thinking another of their kind had already staked a claim and to make them bypass that house. But food offerings were set out for the spirits of departed loved ones so that they would know they were welcome to come in and visit their living loved ones. (I guess non-human spirits wouldn't want human food.)


Christians believe that yes, but also that they were sent the"holy spirit" to be with them always and to provide strength. I think it is the Holy Spirit, or as it was known as, Holy Ghost to watch over them that I thought of when you wrot this.Thank you for this. I had also meant that the "spirit of Jesus," i.e. the Holy Spirit, was always with Christians as well, but I didn't spell it out. (I'm not Christian, but I do believe a Holy Spirit is with all of us all the time.)

perhaps Albus PERCIVAL Wulfuric Brian Dumbledore may pierce the veil?Oh yes! This works quite nicely!! :cool:


Will I ever have this much fun again with a series?I've wondered exactly the same thing. Good Gods I hope so!!! I'd hate to think I'd never feel this way again. Say... even if Jo won't write any more Harry Potter books, maybe she'll do other series!

Where there's life, there's hope. Where there's hope, there's life.

I think that if "Deathly Hallows'' has to do with whats behind the Veil or the Founders themselves....It seems all connected to Halloween!....And i know that no matter what the theories are about,they all have to do with the significance of what Halloweens all about!

....And i think that the way JKR used hangman for us to figure out whats the title of the seventh book actually might hold some clues to what the ''Deathly Hallows' might be!....Could the Hangman be a key character in the Deathly Hallows?..I think that it represents a character that is dead...my guess is that the Hangman is actually R.A.B!!!

Hi!.. great editorial LL! i agree with your ideas.. and i have a few of my own that may fit into yours, i'm sure most of you have noticed that there is a connection between the passwords and major plot points, like caput draconis and hog's snout (dragon egg at the hog's head), wattlebird and the phoenix, fortuna major and the prophecies...i think mimbulus mimbletonia (which was btw given to us in italics) is a major plot point too.. i think this veil in the department of misteries is a gateway.. and maybe during halloween people will be able to go near it or through it.. to get aid from those who went beyond.. where does mimbulus fit u ask? reread OOTP.. see who gets entranced, and hears things behind the veil or.. in it.. and who doesn't.. and whot got a mouthful of stinksap and who didn't... only Ron an Hermione were afraid.. the prefects who weren't in the cart that day.... might Neville's ability in herbology be helpful to Harry on this Hallowee?? and help him comunicate through the veil??

Another great editorial Lady Lupin, I love your theories and the fact that you don't try to give iron clad answers. But give us insights and possibilities that get us all thinking.

Not to repeat previous posts but my first thoughts also was of a dark place like a graveyard. I feel that maybe we will see something significant happen in Godrics Hollow. We have already been to Tom/Voldie's parents graveyard, maybe now its time to see something significant at Harry's?

Altho I personally don't think we will see souls literally fight against the dark side they could possibly come to see Harry. We know DH will show Jo's personal beliefs in life and that she began writing HP after he mother died. Will Harry get to meet the souls of his parents for words of encouragement advice at some point? Just as Jo probably would have wanted at the time when she was writing the basis of the whole HP story.

So many answers we will not know until we read DH but I know one thing for certain at the minute- Lady Lupin you work to hard!! I think you could do with a months holiday when DH is released.

People have quoted me! Oh, I'm so happy! No-one ever quotes me!

Wow, that mimbulus mimbletonia theory is pretty original! Jo would be proud of you, silmarilien!

I agree that we will finally get a trip to Azkaban in book 7. It's the only location in the UK wizarding world we know of that Harry hasn't been to yet. I repeat, though - I don't think we will return to any of the climaxes from the other books. The veil theories are all so good, but I honestly can't see Jo spending much time back at it, or back in the Ministry of Magic, if any at all. And I actually don't think we will see the Priori Incantatem effect again - simply because she's done that already. Jo very seldom revisits old ground, plotwise.

For information - in the UK 1st November is All Saints' Day (archaically called All Hallows' Day, hence the night before being All Hallows' Eve - Hallowe'en) and 2nd November is All Souls Day. Catholics are the only ones who really mark them, although a Protestant church may well mention them. All Saints, for the Catholics, are those people who have been canonised by the Pope as saints (eg. St Patrick, etc.) and All Souls are everyone else who has died, ever. I think.

Thanks Andromeda_T.. i have wanted to make it an editorial, as i also noticed that OOTP only gives us that one password.. in itallics.. and the whole plant seems oddly interesting to me, and we never got to hear what was so special about it.. even though we got to see it again on the train, but i do think we may go back in a few steps in DH, i mean revisiting spells we've seen perhaps not priori incantatem but i do think the veil and the room that we didn't see open in the DOM will make a comeback.. they're just too good to be left out!

I find the trip to azkaban very interesting... will we get to see it from harry's eyes or not? is Lucius coming out??

incidentally.. have we seen much happen in november? i think that's one of the few months that gets mentioned on the books a lot.. even if just to show time passing...

Dear Lady --

Wonderful work, as always!

I tried to contact you through your e-mail, but got your "swamped" message. Still, I'll try here because I believe this is vital: writers use dictionaries as a secondary source for great words. First source? Thesaurus.

Please, please Lady Lupin, check thesaurus.com for "deathly" http://thesaurus.reference.com/browse/deathly and "hallow" http://thesaurus.reference.com/browse/hallow The meanings become much richer and considerably more suggestive!

Hello everybody, I have been a reader of the spinners end editorials and this forum for some time and decided its time now to join.

Again a very good editorial. I agree with most of it and with a lot of the interesting ideas above...:clap:

But i think Lady Lupin choose the right title for her editorial: a Passage TROUGH the veil...

Ever since ootp i ve suspected that this will be the final of the hp series: Harry is passing voluntarily through the veil in order to be rejoined with his loved ones.

squibpott (page 3 of this thread) has rejected this idea, although she/he also has had this idea for some time. I think there are a lot of hints to that end in book 1-6.

Of course we will see most or all the loose ends finalized (how Dumbledore came into possesion of James`cloak, what happend to LV´s wand, what is Snape`s position etc, etc). No doubt, Harry will find and destroy the left horcruxes (with the help of the DH, most propably, what ever they are). I guess, on his way he will have contact with the world behind the veil, maybe by way of the two way mirror and i guess he will have some help from there. To my opinion we will learn that the veiled arch in the DoM is a gate to a wizarding equivalent of Hades, the acient greek`underworld, where the souls of the departedlive (but mind: only the unharmed souls, those that are not disrupted by having committed murder during the live here! so no death eaters there!)

And of course Harry will have his final showdown with LV, which - no doubt to me - he will win...:agree:

But what then? I have some difficulties to imagine that Harry will realy want to live on in this world. Remember, jkr hinted that at least two will die - maybe another one or even two that were important to him and well loved ? Remember, he has not to many real friends and people that are importewnt to him in this world. Already four loved ones (Lily, James, Sirius, Dumbldore) are over there - and his hearts desire is to be rejoined with his parents and family.

And his best friends Ron and Hermione show all signs of getting together - so in a way he will be excluded here again and will loose some of this important friendship. What if Ginny is one of the deads? Another loved one gone over...

Moreover, life for Harry in the wizarding world was never too easy, what with being the choosen one or the boy who survived. Imagine his position in the wizarding community, when he is "The Wizard who Vanquished the Dark Lord". I have a feeling that Harry loves a quiet, peacefull life, content to be with the people, that are important to him. How can he manage this, if all wizardkind think of him as the hero of all heros? They will worship him to death...

So the idea of passing through the veil could hold a lot of relief and comfort for Harry.... Yes we will loose a dear friend, but what if this will make him happy?

All through the series Harry `aims, ambitions and future narrowed more and more to that last battle, that one and only goal of getting it back on Voldemort. What aims or wishes for the future AFTER that has Harry? I can see none, just a big black hole. There was a bright beam of sunlight for Harry´s future, when he found Sirius and when he imagined living with him. But this bright future was crushed brutally to pieces when Sirius passed the veil, moreover the doom of the prediction of being the choosen one closed on him more and more, so all his striving are aimed at getting Voldemort finished. He is also well prepared to die in the attempt, an unusal attitude for an 16-year old.

And JKR was from the beginning firm about one fact: There will be only seven books. So if we dont derive from that, that Harry dies (no I dont want even to imagine that :scared: ), passing through the veil will be a "elegant" way: no more HP-stories possible, but also no death in the literal way.

To tell the truth, this makes some sense to me and has some logic in it, but I dont like this idea too much on a emotional base. I would definitly like a happy end, with Harry becomming an auror, married happily to Ginny, having lots of children, Ron being best man and his lifelong friend as is Hermione.... (Seen to much hollywood ****, i guess)

Sometimes I think, maybe at the end, Harry will succeed where Orpheus once failed: Leading back his loved ones from the underworld to this side, (all except Dumbledore: he would want to stay on, as death is just another adventure to him and he will be quite content to stay and explore the world behind the veil....)

But of course this is all in my head, and my head is definitley not JKR´s head.... so I wouldn`t be sorprised, if book 7 finalizes in a total different way....:tu:

Many people have used the logic that Harry must die so that nobody can continue the HP series. If the veil is indeed what we all think it is, and there is communication or even a passage way to the dead, then I find that logic problematic. Opening a link to the dead creates a way for a fiction writer to spin the story and possibly make Harry reapear.
Moreover, one thing that troubles me is that death in JKR's world has always been absolute. THerefore, if the communicating and/or going through the veil is possible, there must be some very specific rules.
I think it will be very interesting to see how all of this unfolds.

Many people have used the logic that Harry must die so that nobody can continue the HP series. If the veil is indeed what we all think it is, and there is communication or even a passage way to the dead, then I find that logic problematic. Opening a link to the dead creates a way for a fiction writer to spin the story and possibly make Harry reapear.
Moreover, one thing that troubles me is that death in JKR's world has always been absolute. THerefore, if the communicating and/or going through the veil is possible, there must be some very specific rules.
I think it will be very interesting to see how all of this unfolds.

wow! you're right... I hadn't thought of that.. i did think there must be specific rules.. (but I am secretly hoping to hear at least a >hey Harry! from Sirius).. that would be really interesting, to see how communication is possible without it ever being possible again.. solstice comes to mind.. but then the halloween'd be ruled out... i'm ranting-- sorry :S

Perhaps All Hallows Eve will enable Harry t communicate with the voices the other side of the veil without actually having to go through the veil. A bit like the Catholics talking to a priest in a confessional - hearing but not seeing. After all the veil between the spirit world and our world is supposed to be thinner at that time so Harry may well be able to make out what the voices the other side of the veil are saying then.

Lady Lupin- I was so thrilled to find a new editorial by you- always enjoyable and thought-provoking!

I too, see the word Hallows as a positive for our hero. And I also agree that we may see Harry's loved ones lending aid. these past weeks, remembering the priori incantatum, where we witnessed the aid James and Lily were able to offer to their son, I felt strongly that JKR was showing us the possibilty of those who've passed being able to help in very practical ways, more so than the general observations of the portraits for instance.And it all comes down to love: Lily's love was what saved Harry to begin with, his dad's what has given him strength and courage, like that of a "true Gryffindor". And Sirius, offering the love of family and friend, Dumbledore, whose love nurtured and taught, protected and believed in a young, inexperienced wizard, enabling our Harry to grow and mature and stand capable of the difficult tasks before him. I firmly believe we will see the love of these four , along with Harry's living friends, play a huge role in the defeat of Voldemort, once and for all.

hi, i am like a huge HP fan. and i am fairly new to mugglenet... i visited often though i never felt compeled to write as much as i have been by this peice...it is pure genious...
the way you have strung together the peices of books past to come up with a truly compeling theroy of how the (Veil, in hp:ootp)will come to play a big part in this final book...i find it it not only fasanting, but briliant....kudos....

I also like the part about the mirror being a way to connect with sirius and the others behind the veil....i beleave both these will play an important roll... thank you for sharing these theroy's with me and all the other hp fans out there ... iam looking forward to reading (hp: DH) and seeing if any of them hold true...

I almost didn't want to post this for fear of being repetative, but I have to congradulate you on another wonderfully insightful editorial. I absolutely loved the idea of destroying a horcrux by throwing it through the veil.:lol: You also talked about how it would be too late in the year for Harry to be at Godric's Hollow on Halloween. What if he followed some clue that he gets at the wedding before going there? In that case, Halloween would be the perfect time to get some huge piece of information from Godric's Hollow.

Hello. I just learned that the title translated in Dutch will be: het fatale heiligdom. And that, if I translate it back, means roughly: the fatal sacred place. (not plural!). I conclude that hallows is actually a place, it is not used in some kind of non-litteral way (as in a state of mind, or a state of holiness, or indeed for a person) it is strictly a building (as a church) or a place (such as stonehenge). Any concreet ideas where that place might be?

I really want to say it's Godric's Hollow but it could be anywhere important in the wizarding world.

Thanks for the translation though :tu: it's a great tip

I like the idea of Harry being able to communicate with the dead using the mirrors. If this is possible, then Sirius must not have had the mirror with him when he died, or Harry would have been able to communicate with him right after his death when he unwrapped the mirror for the first time. No, I think Harry has to go back to Grimmauld place to find the other mirror. Then it would be cool if he could send it through the veil somehow ( Question: can inanimate objects pass through the veil?).

I just wanted to let everyone know that there are four very common "hallows" that already exist in the supernatural/occult world...they are the 'cups', 'wands', 'coins' and 'swords' of the major arcana in the tarot deck. they are referred to as the four hallows and i think it's very interesting that they almost represent many of the speculations of LL in Spinners End as to the founders relics. A wand, a cup, a sword...but the coin...could that be jewelery...a locket? Perhaps JK's 'Deathly Hallows' are the four founders relics and the significance they will play? Just a thought.

Will I ever have this much fun again with a series?
:sigh: I hope so, but not too soon. It'll take a while to get over Harry and his world!

Baby dementors anyone?
Ewww! :lol:

A reflection on all of Jo's titles now looks multifaceted/multilayered in hindsight.
I agree. I think it refers to more than one thing. The founders, Hogwarts, the veil, and the horcruxes all come to mind when I think on "deathly hallows"

ooh, thanks juul! That's interesting - hmmm... if I had to pick one place... Godric's Hollow comes to mind but all we know of this is the place of Harry's parents death - Hogwarts is the other pervasive thought of a place where there are "deathly hallows"... Yikes!

I really enjoyed this editorial. I am an avid reader of Harry Potter., I probably have read all the books about 6 times looking for clues and seeking solice. I find readng helps my in the hard times. My other favorites are Lord of the Rings, Anne Rice and Narnia. I also am a witch be the normal human standards, oh do I wish it was easy as waving a wand. I have read the classics, mythology and occult literature. I find JKR use of the mythology, astrology, occult beliefs and theology interesting. I am at school at this time trying to earn my degree in anthropology, I want to be a professor some day. I believe there is alot to learn from Dumbledore and others in the book. Through these books we can find the secret of our own darkness and our love. I like most witches believe like Dumbledore that evil can never be eradicated but kept at bay. Without the dark there can be no light. This is a basic occult teaching and is a constant in nature. For every action there is a reaction. I to believe that the Deathly Hallows are a positive force that will help Harry. The loss of Dumbledore was hard for me and my heart aches for all that Harry has had to endure. I myself Have been victim to abuse and indifference but find it in my heart to love with every fiber of my being. I know only too well the feeling of bleeding to death with emotional pain and believe this makes me stronger and better able to understand others. I have endometriosis and live in pain daily but I have found that that makes me stronger. JKR has given us a gift that I hope I can pass on to my son and grandchildren. The love of reading that has goten me through many tough times and a love that does not sway.

the idea of "hallows" being related to Halloween is a great idea. So far Halloweens in harrys life have been at the least of times dramatic: his parents died, a troll was let loose by quirrel, mrs norris was petrified, Harrys name came out of the goblet of fire-(the list continues) maybe in the final book there will be an event on halloween possibly "Deathly" This is at most vague but we have nothing to go on.

Isn't Hallow when it means sanctified, venerated, holy- an adjective?

hallowed can be an adjective, yes. Hallows can also be a noun, though it's used less frequently this way.

Another word for "hallows" is "devotion"
Since JKR loves double meanings, I am inclined to go with the idea that deathly "hallows" is a reference to Godrics Hollow and the death of Harry's parents on Halloween, but also a reference to someone's "deathly devotion"

So whose devotion? Snape? Ginny? Wormtail (unlikely)? Dumbledore?

I don't know, I am still chewing on it... anyone else have some thoughts?

LL- awesome post.

-silly

Perfect! Absolutely fascinating to read that after viewing the Cover art for the book!

OH! I love that one...that would be a really good end to the series...i hope all the people that Harry has lost comes back to help him...and I hope that's what deathly Hallows means...great job lady lupin!

Hello everybody, this is my very first post so forgive me if I go about this business in the wrong way.


Lady Lupin, I have always enjoyed your editorials; they further liven my interest in this wonderful wizard filled, fantastical obsession of mine.

I completely agree with all that you have stated in this particular editorial; namely of the diction choice in the title; use of the world deathly as opposed to deadly or some other word with a negative connotation.

This is one of many things that struck me in your editorial,
"Finally, it occurs to me that the countless witches and wizards have been innocent victims of Voldemort's greed and ambition. Will they all manage to breach the veil in some way to help Harry defeat his enemy? If so, it doesn't seem likely that this grand climax would happen on Halloween."

Again, I do agree with your statement. In taking a closer look at the cover of Deathly Hallows http://www.cosforums.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=4284897 I noticed that it seems to be bordered by tattered curtains (I apologize in advance if this has already been noted) that strongly reminds me of the veil. I have also noticed the shadow of figures standing between the columns of what looks like an arena, that seem to be observing Voldemort and Harry as they reach out towards something. Perhaps these figures represent the voices that Harry heard beyond the veil in OotP.In reexamining this cover, it seems to me that these witches and wizards (and all other dead witches and wizards in general) you mentioned are standing in the background observing the scene in front of them.

So basically, I think that the American cover of DH further strengthens your argument.

I believe that the term 'deathly hollows' may refer to Godric's Hollow as this may have been the original home of Dumbledore. If Harry first goes to Grimmuld #12 and then seeks knowledge of his parents, that could possibly occur around halloween in timing. I believe that one of the horcruxes is probably located at the sight of his parents demise as this would be something an evil Voldemont might feel was a safe hiding place.

I sort of regret having found out all the clues laid out in past books on the locket, because I will not enjoy that part of the book as much as I would. On the other hand, the speculation was great and book 7 will still leave me flabbergasted anyway. But... I think it's time now to hear that the book is finished, that it's approximately ... Chapters long, ... pages, maybe find out some chapter titles like last time... but I don't want to know much more on the content:p

i was thinking the same thing as i was reading through the editorial! i couldnt even finish reading the editorial in fear i would find out way too much. are we sure that lady lupin is not j.k.rowling herself? :lol: