Dumbledore's Portrait : Can it speak? Will it be able to help Harry? v2

I think the key to this question is not what Harry would ask, but what Dumbledore's portrait can answer, and where... I mean, if the only portrait is located in McGonagall's office, then I don't think Harry would be able to talk freely about horcruxed in front of her; he said it himself; Dumbledore didn't want anyone to know about that, and Harry would never betray DD's trust, no matter what...

So, so true. Harry can't just waltz right into the headmaster's office and ask the portrait anything he wants. He has to wait until the right moment.

As to what Dumbledore's portrait can tell Harry, I'd have to say that it can tell him everything that the real Dumbledore could. I just remember that some portraits in the past books have talked about what happened when they were headmaster (e.g. Philneas Negillus), so that means Dumbledore's portrait can also retain the memory of Dumbledore himself.

NadineTink:
I think the key to this question is not what Harry would ask, but what Dumbledore's portrait can answer, and where... I mean, if the only portrait is located in McGonagall's office, then I don't think Harry would be able to talk freely about horcruxed in front of her; he said it himself; Dumbledore didn't want anyone to know about that, and Harry would never betray DD's trust, no matter what...

True, so maybe, if Harry talks to Dumbledore's portrait before he leaves on his horcrux hunt, he'll either talk to the portrait in code, or when McGonagall leaves on headmistress business. I personally believe though, that if he does wake up, he'll only give Harry some vague piece of advice, like "trust in the love of those around you" or something like that, which will help him in his final battle against Voldemort.

There's probably portraits of Dumbledore all over the place in the wizarding world, as he was one of the most powerful and influential wizards in the world. They could be in the Ministry, offices of the Int'l confederation of wizards, the Wizengamot, and probably other places we haven't thought of.


true. harry could've talked to sirius or his parent's picture's before, but did not. when he did see pictures of his parents, they weren't giving him information.

also- did dumbldore even have a portrait painted? Yes, he's been headmaster for a while, but no picture has yet been shown. If a portrait was made many years ago, I doubt it will be immediatly hung in his study, especially considering the current state of the wizarding world.

I dont think it will be able to help harry. in HBP, dumbledore was intrigued by riddle's diary because it was "a mere memory thinking and acting of its own accord" (not exact quote). While the portrait will encase some of Dumbledore's memory, it couldn't act and think as deeply as a real person could, or recall complex information. Ordinary memories cannot.

magicalmysteryg:
also- did dumbldore even have a portrait painted? Yes, he's been headmaster for a while, but no picture has yet been shown. If a portrait was made many years ago, I doubt it will be immediatly hung in his study, especially considering the current state of the wizarding world.


I think that a portrait, if you're a headmaster/headmistress, automatically appears when you die. McGonagall, when she saw DD's portrait, was stunned, I think because she now knew for sure that Dumbledore was dead.

I think that a portrait, if you're a headmaster/headmistress, automatically appears when you die. McGonagall, when she saw DD's portrait, was stunned, I think because she now knew for sure that Dumbledore was dead.


i forgot that they'd already seen the portrait, but this supports my point.

portraits do not need to bee asked questions. phineas's portrait talks of its own accord, it interjected into harry and DD's convo about sirius. If DD wanted to talk from his portrait, he would, he needs no special asking or questions. He could ask mcgonnagal to get harry.

True, so maybe, if Harry talks to Dumbledore's portrait before he leaves on his horcrux hunt, he'll either talk to the portrait in code, or when McGonagall leaves on headmistress business. I personally believe though, that if he does wake up, he'll only give Harry some vague piece of advice, like "trust in the love of those around you" or something like that, which will help him in his final battle against Voldemort.

So true. I don't think Dumbledore's portrait will be able to give Harry advice on his horcrux hunt; I doubt it even knows about it. Here's a quote from one of Jo's interviews:

All the paintings we have seen at Hogwarts are of dead people. They seem to be living through their portraits. How is this so? If there was a painting of Harry’s parents, would he be able to obtain advice from them?

That is a very good question. They are all of dead people; they are not as fully realised as ghosts, as you have probably noticed. The place where you see them really talk is in Dumbledore’s office, primarily; the idea is that the previous headmasters and headmistresses leave behind a faint imprint of themselves. They leave their aura, almost, in the office and they can give some counsel to the present occupant, but it is not like being a ghost. They repeat catchphrases, almost. The portrait of Sirius’ mother is not a very 3D personality; she is not very fully realised. She repeats catchphrases that she had when she was alive. If Harry had a portrait of his parents it would not help him a great deal. If he could meet them as ghosts, that would be a much more meaningful interaction, but as Nick explained at the end of Phoenix—I am straying into dangerous territory, but I think you probably know what he explained—there are some people who would not come back as ghosts because they are unafraid, or less afraid, of death.
*bold is mine

As Jo said, I don't think DD's portrait would know any information about horcruxes or Voldemort... I think it's there to help McGonagall, not Harry...

I really don't think that it'll be like the real Dumbledore.
It may help Harry a bit but I think that would make it to easy for him. Dumbledore had to die because Harry needs to figure stuff out on his own. He's had plenty of help in the past, Dumbledore can't help him now.

does anyone know the dynamics of how the portraits work? As in are they a copy of the person?. I have read all the books multiple times but I have never read any of the side along books JKR has published and I am not sure if they would contain information on how some magical items like the portrait works.

I do know it seems like a few of the portraits in Dumbledores office are almost carbon copies of the people who once lived. Though this could simply be how they are made to be, and it's just an illusion.

does anyone know the dynamics of how the portraits work? As in are they a copy of the person?. I have read all the books multiple times but I have never read any of the side along books JKR has published and I am not sure if they would contain information on how some magical items like the portrait works.

I do know it seems like a few of the portraits in Dumbledores office are almost carbon copies of the people who once lived. Though this could simply be how they are made to be, and it's just an illusion.


Edinburgh Book Festival, August 2004All the paintings we have seen at Hogwarts are of dead people. They seem to be living through their portraits. How is this so? If there was a painting of Harry’s parents, would he be able to obtain advice from them?

That is a very good question. They are all of dead people; they are not as fully realised as ghosts, as you have probably noticed. The place where you see them really talk is in Dumbledore’s office, primarily; the idea is that the previous headmasters and headmistresses leave behind a faint imprint of themselves. They leave their aura, almost, in the office and they can give some counsel to the present occupant, but it is not like being a ghost. They repeat catchphrases, almost. The portrait of Sirius’ mother is not a very 3D personality; she is not very fully realised. She repeats catchphrases that she had when she was alive. If Harry had a portrait of his parents it would not help him a great deal. If he could meet them as ghosts, that would be a much more meaningful interaction, but as Nick explained at the end of Phoenix—I am straying into dangerous territory, but I think you probably know what he explained—there are some people who would not come back as ghosts because they are unafraid, or less afraid, of death.


So I think that the portrait will carry some of Dumbledore's memories, but I dont think there will be any information on the Horcrux's themselves, as that is information that Dumbledore didnt want anyone to know except Him and the Trio. I do think that Harry might be able to get information such as Snape's loyalty from the portrait and other important questions such as that, but not Horcrux info, and if there is Horcrux info you can bet it will be hard to riddle out.

The protrait will be able to speak but it will be of more help to the head mistress than to Harry. That seems to be the job of the protraits in the head mistress/master's office. Harry may be able to talk to Dumbledore but I don't believe that he will have any useful information. If Harry is able to extract Dumbledore's memories from the pensive in his office, there will be a wealth of information there.

taupimu:
The protrait will be able to speak but it will be of more help to the head mistress than to Harry. That seems to be the job of the protraits in the head mistress/master's office. Harry may be able to talk to Dumbledore but I don't believe that he will have any useful information. If Harry is able to extract Dumbledore's memories from the pensive in his office, there will be a wealth of information there.

That's exactly what I think. Harry will get all of his information from the pensive, not Dumbledore's portrait. Perhaps he will return to Hogwarts if he hits a dead end on his horcrux hunt, and will search DD's old office for clues.

Didn't Jo say to Radcliffe that Dumbledore was giving her a hard time in DH? It could be through the portrait. Although I always took portraits to be a generalization of the person. The features that were most noticable come through. Sirius' mom hated non-purebloods, the fat lady overindulges, Sir Cadugan is exuberant. The portrait of Dumbledore may reflect his quirkier side (like love of socks and raspberry jam) since that is what many people saw.

I feel as if Dumbledore was killed off for a reason and that was to let Harry find the Horcruxes on his own without Dumbledore's guidance. He needed to have all of his leading/parental figures die in order to truly be able to complete his mission. If I assume that, then it seems like Dumbledore shouldn't really be able to help Harry much from his portrait. Although its an interesting point.

Also, we've only ever really seen portraits be messengers and they haven't really given useful or insightful info in the past so I don't think that's what they are for.

Like all the other portraits at Hogwarts, I am sure that Dumbledore's portrait will indeed talk. I am still undecided on how much it will help Harry. I have always had a bit of a feeling that the portrait is a red herring. I mean, I think we will see an influence from Dumbledore in book 7, but I don't necessarily think it will be from the portrait.

I keep seeing this scene in my head where Hagrid is continuing to talk to DD portrait. Hagrid was at HW longer than most people. DD gave Harry tools for finding the hxs' for a reason. Maybe the portrait will be Hagrids' guide, not Harrys'.

Does there have to be only one portrait . There can be more than one. Phineas has 2, and weren't there other Headmasters and Mistress who had their portraits at other institutions. Perhaps D'dore has one in his room or home which he will give to Harry along with his pensieve and some rare books on what little information can be had about horcruxes. If it is a smaller one then Harry can even carry it along string it on a chain and wear it like a locket.

Bet Dumby has hundreds hanging over the world, he's probs got one in Voldys home, muahahahahaa, and as far as we are aware, Dumbledore can help Harry, but not have the intelligence as a ghost would of.

I agree, Dumbledore was a major influence for a lot of things in his time. Dont forget he did defeat Gryndlewald (was that his name?) the dark lord before Voldemort. So it is likely that there will be possibly even several of his pictures around.

I agree, Dumbledore was a major influence for a lot of things in his time. Dont forget he did defeat Gryndlewald (was that his name?) the dark lord before Voldemort. So it is likely that there will be possibly even several of his pictures around.

If one manages to get themselves on a choco frog card, they're bound to have some portraits!

If one manages to get themselves on a choco frog card, they're bound to have some portraits!

Hahaha agreed! :tu:

Has anyone thought that DD might have put up a picture in Haerrys house that Sirius left him? Or at the Weasleys?

The room with the veil looks like a classroom that people can go into and maybe converse with the dead?

Maybe she put that room in the book for a reason.

I think that the portrait and the Pensieve will be the only two ways Dumbledore will be presented in the final book. The Pensieve is obvious, memories. Meaning, in the film it will be almost like Dumbledore being actually in the film. Same for the books. He'll still have a role to play.

The portrait, however, I think will be an interesting concept. The portraits are supposed to have an "imprint" of the person. And the portraits in Hogwarts are more magical than others. Take for instance Sirius' mother: she only screams all the time and doesn't have much else to say. But Phinneas Nigellus, he in habits a portrait at Hogwarts and 12 GP. But he is much more animative and talkative and seems to have a brain in a way; he knows to avoid appearing in his portrait at times and lurks; he knows at the end of OotP to go check the portraits at 12 GP for Sirius and shows a hint of sadness that Sirius is dead; he gives his commentary on matters. In other words, he's interactive. All the portraits are in a way. The Fat Lady can have a conversation with you and give insight. Normal pictures that are magical don't talk and give commentary, otherwise Harry would have conversations with his parents' pictures all the time. That's the difference.

So, Dumbledore's portrait. If the Headmaster portraits and other Hogwarts portraits are more magical than normal portraits, how does it work and what can we expect from Dumbledore? Is there is a rule that says how much of an imprint the portrait's subject can leave? I mean, could Dumbledore make it so that he is as interactive as Phinneas or the Fat Lady, that way he could provide more insight to McGonaggall and Harry? Phinneas seems aware that he is dead and in a portrait, so could that mean that Dumbledore will be aware of what happened to himself and therefore be able to tell anyone whether Snape truly meant to kill him or not? I mean, will Dumbledore's first words to Minerva McGonaggall after being asked why Snape would do such a thing be, "Boy that was quite the shocker, eh?" Or, will he be able to say that prior to his death he had organized everything in case he should die, because he knew there was a plot for it, so that if he was going to go down, he wanted Snape to be able to get on the inside so he rathered he do it? I dunno, just talking. Maybe there's some thought to all my rambling.

Maybe one could carry a Chocolate Frog Card in their pocket and have a "Dumbledore to Go".

Maybe a group of people could carry a card in each pocket, and use DD as a Magical cell phone.

"Professor, can you tell Ron that I have found it. And then tell Hermione that she can do it now"

That is one of the first things I thought of after finishing book 6 (Dumbledore's portrait) and I think he could still help Harry though I'm not entirely sure because I don't know how the portrait works, is it some form of ghost?

A previous poster helpfully mentioned that a portrait is an imprint of a departed person, not the person. I agree that the portrait might be able to give advice about courses of action, but will probably not be able to answer questions or reveal information that he did not reveal in his lifetime. I don't think JKR wants it to be that easy. "Ok, DD's dead, but we can just go have a chat with his picture and find out everything we need to know." Oh, how nice that would be. I think like any hero deprived of a mentor, Harry will encounter a turning point in which he must rely on his own decisions and instincts more and more, and less on DD. It's an important part of growing up, and I think JKR wants that "letting go" factor to be very clear. Of course, I'm not JKR, so I could be totally left-field. Just a thought ;)

I think that the portrait and the Pensieve will be the only two ways Dumbledore will be presented in the final book. The Pensieve is obvious, memories. Meaning, in the film it will be almost like Dumbledore being actually in the film. Same for the books. He'll still have a role to play.

The portrait, however, I think will be an interesting concept. The portraits are supposed to have an "imprint" of the person. And the portraits in Hogwarts are more magical than others. Take for instance Sirius' mother: she only screams all the time and doesn't have much else to say. But Phinneas Nigellus, he in habits a portrait at Hogwarts and 12 GP. But he is much more animative and talkative and seems to have a brain in a way; he knows to avoid appearing in his portrait at times and lurks; he knows at the end of OotP to go check the portraits at 12 GP for Sirius and shows a hint of sadness that Sirius is dead; he gives his commentary on matters. In other words, he's interactive. All the portraits are in a way. The Fat Lady can have a conversation with you and give insight. Normal pictures that are magical don't talk and give commentary, otherwise Harry would have conversations with his parents' pictures all the time. That's the difference.

So, Dumbledore's portrait. If the Headmaster portraits and other Hogwarts portraits are more magical than normal portraits, how does it work and what can we expect from Dumbledore? Is there is a rule that says how much of an imprint the portrait's subject can leave? I mean, could Dumbledore make it so that he is as interactive as Phinneas or the Fat Lady, that way he could provide more insight to McGonaggall and Harry? Phinneas seems aware that he is dead and in a portrait, so could that mean that Dumbledore will be aware of what happened to himself and therefore be able to tell anyone whether Snape truly meant to kill him or not? I mean, will Dumbledore's first words to Minerva McGonaggall after being asked why Snape would do such a thing be, "Boy that was quite the shocker, eh?" Or, will he be able to say that prior to his death he had organized everything in case he should die, because he knew there was a plot for it, so that if he was going to go down, he wanted Snape to be able to get on the inside so he rathered he do it? I dunno, just talking. Maybe there's some thought to all my rambling.

I totaly agree on all of this, because i dont see anyother way Harry could make it through this book without beign able to talk or get info from dumbledore. ( i especialy agree with decviding whether snapes inncocent or not through the portrait)

I believe that Dumbledore has to be more helpful than the portrait and the pensive. Jo said something about the fact that Sirius had to die when she finished POA. I don't know how but somehow all the people who have died around Harry will be important. That means that there will be more from Mom, Dad, Sirius, and Dumbledore, maybe it will also include Cedric.

I sure hope having all of the people die was not just to make Harry lose all of his mentors and have to face Voldemort alone.

I believe that Dumbledore has to be more helpful than the portrait and the pensive. Jo said something about the fact that Sirius had to die when she finished POA. I don't know how but somehow all the people who have died around Harry will be important. That means that there will be more from Mom, Dad, Sirius, and Dumbledore, maybe it will also include Cedric.

I sure hope having all of the people die was not just to make Harry lose all of his mentors and have to face Voldemort alone.

Yeah i kind of whtink therell be more to dumbledore and the rest I dont think they could do it without there help

i think that it may be difficult as i thought the protraits were there to help the current headmaster/mistress of Hogwarts, they may not be able to help anyone else and we dont know who the new head will be or even if hogwarts will be open next year!

The Fat Lady can move portraits. So theorectically, any portrait could move and be of help, like Sir Cardigon. So I don't think it would make a difference if there was a HW next yr.

Like all the other portraits in Hogwarts, Dumbledore's can speak and it will retain something of his personality (the counterbalance to good ol' Phineas) but I don't think it can communicate memories that Dumbledore didn't reveal to Harry in life. It's just an echo (like Mrs. Black), a very interesting echo, but an echo nonetheless.

Perhaps Dumbledore left a letter for Harry explaining where to find the memories Dumbledore used to get his information and possibly more that he had not yet shared with Harry. This could be of great use to him on his hunt.

I think that Dumbledore is gonna have at least 2 pictures up...one in Hogwarts and one in the Ministry. And I also think that the pictures of Headmasters are more interactive than other pictures, and Dumbledore's will be even more so....who exactly creates these pictures? Do the headmasters themselves enchant their own portraits??

JK already settled the question of how "interactive" the Heads' portraits are--and I think he'll probably have pictures all OVER the place. Hogwarts, the Ministry, St. Mungo's, etc. I would hop that Dumbledore left a letter for Harry, maybe with his own last will and testament. Maybe Aberforth has it.

JK already settled the question of how "interactive" the Heads' portraits are--and I think he'll probably have pictures all OVER the place. Hogwarts, the Ministry, St. Mungo's, etc.

I agree. I think Dumbledore's portrait will be of great help to Harry. Just as the previous headmasters were of help to Dumbledore when he needed them, I think it will be the same way with DD's portrait (s). The fact that he was already sleeping at the end of HBP makes me think that he will be very useful for Harry in DH. :agree:

JK already settled the question of how "interactive" the Heads' portraits are--.

Where has JK settled this? i missed it, and would really like to know what she said about the portraits

I don't remember the webchat, but this came up sort of because of Sirius' mother and then got expanded because Dumbledore died. She reminded everyone that the portraits are echoes that reflect the personality of the subjects. They aren't really alive. I wish I had the quote handy, but I don't.

MHPFAN--See, I don't know how much help Dumbledore's portraits will be because I have a sneaking suspicion that Harry won't spend very much time at Hogwarts AT ALL unless he discovers that one of the Horcruxes is or might be stashed there.

Just the personality not the intelligence or memory? Thats not going to help harry much, although, since Dumbledores pic is probably going to be everywhere, he going to be great help as a spy.

Personality, and maybe a smidgeon of intelligence, but NO, not the memory. The screaming, hissing, and spitting Mrs. Black is not a total copy of Mrs. Black. Neither is Fortescue's blustering portrait or the sarcastic Phineas Nigellus.

Just the personality or somethhing. A fully intellegible being would go mad inside a portrait.

Where has JK settled this? i missed it, and would really like to know what she said about the portraits


She stated that the portraits would basically repeat catch phrases. They are just an imprint of the person. I think this is on the emmerson interview.

If Phineus has the ability to recognise that his great-great grandson is dead, and report it to someone. DDs' Portrait will be able to register facts, and respond.

The headmasters' portraits worked together. So I wonder if they are bound to eachother. Do they have to help eachother?

Does a headmasters' orders only good as long as they are alive? or in power? Could a headmaster give and order to do something in the event of something happening. Could Dumbledore have told them to do such and such if he dies or is gone...?

Could DD's protection or aid for Harry or something else still be in place?

Also, OotP Ch 37 Pg 826 Phineus left his portrait to (Harry thought) to go tell Grimmauld Place. But it only tells us that is Harry's guess. It doesn't confirm it, so maybe there is a possibility that Phineus didn't go to Grimmauld Place. Maybe he went to tell someone else.

Registering facts and responding like an echo is not the same as having Dumbledore's experience and memory and strategic skills. It's the personality, but not the entire person.

The portrait doesn't have to have all DD's exp. or knowledge, just specific info or ideas.

But that's too advanced--the best ones have general attitude and personality, Dumbledore wouldn't have been able to cram ideas about horcruxes into his portrait self.

but what if he didn't have to cram a whole bunch in his portrait, just one specific idea, or info, or mindset. JKR said herself (in some quote from Edinburough something) that a portrait repeats certain catchpraises. Maybe DD will set a catchpraise that will be usefull, or be a password.

But that raises the question of who paints the paintings and how precisely they are enchanted--I think that the catchphrases are designed to capture their personality, not convey specific messages.

I think Dumbledore's portrait will say something helpful to Harry, but I don't anticipate great bunches of information to come from him. It could be something as simple as, "We know Voldemort liked to vacation in Majorca", or "Death Eaters gather on the full moon", or some such thing. But those words could bring a clue to help Harry solve a puzzle.

I'm pretty sure the portrait can talk. I mean, all the other portraits can talk, so why not Dumbledore's? But the problem is, even if his portrait CAN talk, Harry said that he has no intention of returning to Hogwarts:

"I can't bear the idea that we might never come back." she said softly. "How can Hogwarts close?"
"Maybe it won't," said Ron. "We're not in any more danger here than we are at home, are we? Everywhere's the same now. I'd even say Hogwarts is safer, there are more wizards inside to defend the place. What d'you reckon, Harry?"

"I'm not coming back even if it does reopen," said Harry.

He decided to go back to the Dursleys, like Dumbledore told him to, and he's off to find the horcruxes. No time for Hogwarts.

Harry said that he wouldn't go back to Hogwarts. I got the impression that he meant he would not return as a student. He certainly could be called into the Head Master's office for a chat. He spent a lot of time with Dumbledore the lastyear of his life. There may be a reason that Harry wants to go to Hogwarts, or MGonagall wants to talk to him.

Or maybe he'll discover that one of the Horcruxes is hidden at Hogwarts and he'll HAVE to go back. That seems like the only way JKR could keep Hogwarts as a major part of the plot--not that she has to, but it seems like her best option if she decided to incorporate the school into a major section of the book.

Well, I always thought Gryffindor's sword is a Horcrux :D

I'm pretty sure that it can speak. After all, why would all of the other headmaster's portraits be able to speak and his not? Dumbledore's portrait may help Harry emotionally, or help inspire Harry, but as for Dumbledore ever truly coming back to help him, no. It's not going to happen.

On a different note, what happened to Fawkes at the end of HBP? Maybe Dumbledore will help Harry in the end through Fawkes!

Um, sorry Mr. Watson. I'm a little tired. Is that supposed to be a joke?:huh: Dumbledore wouldn't stoop to create one, and I don't think godric Gryffindor would either. Even if he considered it feasible, I don't think he'd consider it necessary. As for Voldemort--I gather from the discussions that Harry and Dumbledore have in HBP that the sword has already been checked for Horcrux enchantment. Plus, Voldemort would have had no way to retrieve the sword from the hat to use in a Horcurx creation.

I don't see why it would not be able to talk and help the order...The other portraits in Dumbledores office were always talking and even helping the order at some points! Why wouldn't Dumbledore be able to do the same? It really bugged me in the end of HBP when Harry was thinking of all the things he wanted to ask Dumbledore but will never get it ask him now?! If he is like the other portraits there is no reason why Harry shouldn't be able to ask him anything is there? All the other portraits can still think and speak for themselves!?
Just my thoughts!

I think Harry will have to return to Hogwarts, even if not as a student. Although I did post in another thread that he might still return to school, but that's a long story! LOL

There's just too much at Hogwarts that may be useful, if not absolutely necessary. Dumbledore's portrait may very well contain some useful information, even if it's only a clue of where to look next. Remember, Dumbledore was the most powerful wizard of all time, with the possible exception of Voldemort, himself. Even if the portraits are only shadows of the man they mirror, Dumbledore could very well have created some kind of magic or enchantment that allowed him to leave information for Harry in his portrait. I'm one of those who believes that Dumbledore knew throughout all of Half-Blood about the plot to kill him and I think he made certain preparations. Why not an enchantment from the greatest wizard ever that allows his portrait to lend Harry some aid?

PS:Hogwarts may very well still contain other reasons for Harry to return. He may need training or advice (McGonagall, Flitwick, Slughorn, Pomfrey, etc). He may need to use the library to search for clues or information. He might want to get his potions book from the RoR. Also, Tom Riddle created at least 1 horcrux while at Hogwarts...for all we know there might be another Horcrux hidden at the school or maybe clues left behind in the RoR or Chamber of Secrets?

I think a wizzard as popular as Dumbledore would have portraits in many buildings so Harry won't necessary have to come back to Hogwarts to talk to him . I think Dumbledores next great adventure will be visiting all his portraits and giving advice to the order and Harry and gathering information for the order . I do believe his portrait will have all the knowlidge but he wont have any magical powers

Um, sorry Mr. Watson. I'm a little tired. Is that supposed to be a joke?:huh: Dumbledore wouldn't stoop to create one, and I don't think godric Gryffindor would either. Even if he considered it feasible, I don't think he'd consider it necessary. As for Voldemort--I gather from the discussions that Harry and Dumbledore have in HBP that the sword has already been checked for Horcrux enchantment. Plus, Voldemort would have had no way to retrieve the sword from the hat to use in a Horcurx creation.

No man, I thought that Voldy made it when he was in Hogwarts.

"So," said Harry, "the diary's gone, the ring's gone. The cup, the locket, and the snake are still intact, and you think there might be a Horcrux that was once Ravenclaw's or Gryffindor's?"
"An admirably succinct and accurate summary, yes," said Dumbledore, bowing his head.

I always thought that the sword was a horcrux, because that's the only thing(except the Sorting hat) left of Godric Gryffindor. So Voldy could've made it into a horcrux. And he didn't have to pull it out of the hat, it was on display in Dumbledore's office. I'm strongly against the theory that Dumbledore has horcruxes...

I don't see DD making a hx. he would't kill Voldy at the MoM. He also told him there is worse things than death. DD also said that "to the well ordered mind, death is the next great adventure. So I would be very disappointed if JKR wrote about a DD hx.

I totaky see Harry going back to HW for some reason. My minds eye sees Haryy walking down empty corridors, and hearing every noise in the emptiness of what is the place he considers home.

doesnt anybody think that itwould be a tad obvious if dumbledore was able to communicate with harry through a portait? i think JKR has a little more up her sleeve than that.....

does anybody no if portraits (i had dumbledores in mind) can do magic?

please continue.......

I'm not sure if there are any other general threads about the portraits to check for discussion. But I would have to say no, portraits cannot do magic. Unless of course, you think the ability to go travel between all the portraits of themselves would be magic? We know that if multiple portraits exist of the same person, they can travel between them, going from Hogwarts to the Ministry of Magic, for example. The portraits may have some personality, the ability to speak, some of the knowledge that the original person posessed but not the ability to perform real magic. At least that's how I see it! :)

gyllyweed:
Maybe one could carry a Chocolate Frog Card in their pocket and have a "Dumbledore to Go".

Maybe a group of people could carry a card in each pocket, and use DD as a Magical cell phone.

"Professor, can you tell Ron that I have found it. And then tell Hermione that she can do it now"

That'd be very convinent. :lol: But I don't think that Chocolate Frog cards can talk.

PhoenixFire_DA:
I'm not sure if there are any other general threads about the portraits to check for discussion. But I would have to say no, portraits cannot do magic. Unless of course, you think the ability to go travel between all the portraits of themselves would be magic? We know that if multiple portraits exist of the same person, they can travel between them, going from Hogwarts to the Ministry of Magic, for example. The portraits may have some personality, the ability to speak, some of the knowledge that the original person posessed but not the ability to perform real magic. At least that's how I see it!

That makes sense, if portraits could do magic, we would have seen it by now.

Didn't Ron say "You can't expect him to stay around all day?" Does this mean that DD has other important portraits? Is their common wizard knowledge that "DD's portrait in the Whatever Buildidng is helping so and so"?

Mr. Watson--That's a nice theory but you're forgetting one thing. The sword wasn't "on display" in Dumbledore's office until LONG after Voldemort's last visit. It's been on display only since Harry pulled it from the Sorting Hat, the spring of his third year.

Didn't Ron say to Harry about the Choco Frog Cards, "You can't expect him to hang around all day?"

I think this is a clue indicating that he does have more portraits. But, where else could they be?

He'll have portraits everywhere--the Ministry, St. Mungo's, museums, other wizard institutions of higher learning--he's that significant a figure.

Exactly! So if his portraits are in important places, could any of those places hold something important, OR be a usefull place to spy?

Except that the portraits aren't repositories of his soul, they're echoes. And he can only visit one at a time. It's not like he's living in them and can use so many extendable ears and recording devices to gather information and sort through it for whoever wants his help. He is still utterly and completely dead, and he doesn't favor a ghost's path. He is gone. All that's left are the shadows that would retain only fragmentary impressions of his personality, not his knowledge or wisdom or strategic skill.

Well looking at the rest of the wizarding portraits and their actions it can be assumed that Dumbledore's would as well be able to talk and share any information or views that Albus Dumbledore had. He might as well be able to guide Harry and give a few tips but apart from that I think he will not do anything. :no:

I just think the sorts of tips that Harry would need would be beyond the skill of any magical painter to capture in Dumbledore's portrait--unless, could Dumbledore have painted his own Head's portrait?:huh: He might know a way around the usual limitations.

I just think the sorts of tips that Harry would need would be beyond the skill of any magical painter to capture in Dumbledore's portrait--unless, could Dumbledore have painted his own Head's portrait? He might know a way around the usual limitations.

Its not the making of the Portrait that makes it animated its the solution in which it is dipped that makes it animated. Most pictures that appear in the newspaper just move and don't talk, but the Portrait in the Headmaster's office are more sophisticated and can express their views and do things for the current Head Master, clearly showing that the potion in which they are dipped is different from the usual ones. Moreover the portraits in the Head's office have shown strange human feelings (Phineus when Sirius died) so it can be assumed that they are almost replica of their living self, and if that is the case then Dumbledore would be able to help Harry a great deal. ;)

Moreover the portraits in the Head's office have shown strange human feelings (Phineus when Sirius died) so it can be assumed that they are almost replica of their living self, and if that is the case then Dumbledore would be able to help Harry a great deal. ;)

I don't know if Phineus behavior can be attributed to any human feelings. Phineus, to me, is mostly a very nosey character that doesn't believe anything if he doesn't see it for himself. I somehow doubt that he felt anything when he heard about his relatives death.

We will see, but I can't believe that a portrait is that close to the living thing, I think that they have a certain independence which is based on what they did when alive.

But I do think it would be too easy if Dumbledore could tell Harry anything and act just like he was still the living mentor. Then Dumbledore's death would have been almost useless.

JK's answers on protraits at the Edinburgh Book Festival, 2004:

All the paintings we have seen at Hogwarts are of dead people. They seem to be living through their portraits. How is this so? If there was a painting of Harry’s parents, would he be able to obtain advice from them?

That is a very good question. They are all of dead people; they are not as fully realised as ghosts, as you have probably noticed. The place where you see them really talk is in Dumbledore’s office, primarily; the idea is that the previous headmasters and headmistresses leave behind a faint imprint of themselves. They leave their aura, almost, in the office and they can give some counsel to the present occupant, but it is not like being a ghost. They repeat catchphrases, almost. The portrait of Sirius’ mother is not a very 3D personality; she is not very fully realised. She repeats catchphrases that she had when she was alive. If Harry had a portrait of his parents it would not help him a great deal. If he could meet them as ghosts, that would be a much more meaningful interaction, but as Nick explained at the end of Phoenix—I am straying into dangerous territory, but I think you probably know what he explained—there are some people who would not come back as ghosts because they are unafraid, or less afraid, of death.


Wizard portraits are not living or thinking entities, they are only a "distillation" of the real person. This "aura" can give advice or repeat catchphrases but not much more.

Ghosts can communicate more effectively with people than the portraits.

So it seems that we might be able to get some information from Dumbledore but not much. I think it would be more like guidance, like "listen to your heart" and stuff like that. I would absolutly love it if Dumbledore did have a few phrases that he repeated to Harry and they contained hidden clues in them ya know? I love the sluething part of this series, its what makes it so fun....besides all the magic of course lol

I don't know if Phineus behavior can be attributed to any human feelings. Phineus, to me, is mostly a very nosey character that doesn't believe anything if he doesn't see it for himself. I somehow doubt that he felt anything when he heard about his relatives death.

Then why do you think he went out of his Portrait and Harry think that he would be going around the house calling for Sirius, I can see only one reason for that, the Portraits can replicate emotions. Moreover he has shown emotions such as fear, contempt etc.

P.S.- Thanks for the Quote Beerchick :tu:

Then why do you think he went out of his Portrait and Harry think that he would be going around the house calling for Sirius, I can see only one reason for that, the Portraits can replicate emotions. Moreover he has shown emotions such as fear, contempt etc.

P.S.- Thanks for the Quote Beerchick :tu:



No problem!

JKR did satisfy this question. If you consider almost always a concrete answer.

We have seen Phineas take direction from Dumbledore. When Arthur is bit by the snake. He leaves DD office and goes to the ministry and than St Mongo's to report that Arthur has been found and taken to the hospital. He give a very lucid answer.

JKR established that they hang in the headmasters office to advise the current headmaster. So a conversation can take place not just a repeat of what they usually said when they were alive. They have even commented on Harry's behavior when they thought he was out of line with DD.

So do I think DD will help Harry? Well for the time being Mcgonical is headmaster. Harry has a history of not confiding anything to anyone but Ron and Hermione. As a matter of fact he has said on more than one occasion " I should have told/showed that to DD " I think like the mirror Sirus gave him this is something he is going to forgot about and maybe like 500 pages into a huge undertaking he or Ron will remember and return to Hogwarts. Curiously in all 6 books there is no mention of Hermonie ever in the DD office. So unless it is in Hogwarts A History she just might not know about it.

I do think it could be a great asset to Harry but I do not think with exception of Ron and Hermonie, noone will know the trio's plans. I don't see Molly allowing Ron to join the Order so they will strike out alone. Harry will not tell anyone what happen that final night. I think neither will Ron or Hermonie. So I agree with those who said it would be an easy solution but I think Harry will take along time to figure it out.

Then why do you think he went out of his Portrait and Harry think that he would be going around the house calling for Sirius, I can see only one reason for that, the Portraits can replicate emotions. Moreover he has shown emotions such as fear, contempt etc.


I still think this could be out of simple curiosity.

But it really depends on how evolved the imprint of their former personality is. I think Beerchick's quote of JKR gives the exact definition of what the portraits can or can't do. Ghosts seem to be able to show emotions, I don't think that the portraits go that far.

They might be able to give some information yes, but it would just be too easy for Harry if Dumbledore's portrait would give him all he needs.

JKR did satisfy this question. If you consider almost always a concrete answer.

JKR established that they hang in the headmasters office to advise the current headmaster. So a conversation can take place not just a repeat of what they usually said when they were alive. They have even commented on Harry's behavior when they thought he was out of line with DD.


I think the portrait will definitely be able to talk but how much will it actually be able to help Harry? They are just imprints of their physical self, so they will contain the personality, but not so much its memories IMO. The things that Dumbledore did on his own time, i believe, were known to him and him alone (Harry can hazard a safe guess now, but anyways...) I don't think that kind of information will be in the portrait, as it is not useful to the current Headmaster and that is its intended purpose. I think there will be things said that Harry might be able to ask that will give him clues perhaps to certain things like maybe who R.A.B. is, but I think they will be vague and quizzical, and Hermoine will definitely have to help lol


So do I think DD will help Harry? Well for the time being Mcgonical is headmaster. Harry has a history of not confiding anything to anyone but Ron and Hermione. As a matter of fact he has said on more than one occasion " I should have told/showed that to DD " I think like the mirror Sirus gave him this is something he is going to forgot about and maybe like 500 pages into a huge undertaking he or Ron will remember and return to Hogwarts. Curiously in all 6 books there is no mention of Hermonie ever in the DD office. So unless it is in Hogwarts A History she just might not know about it.

I do think it could be a great asset to Harry but I do not think with exception of Ron and Hermonie, noone will know the trio's plans. I don't see Molly allowing Ron to join the Order so they will strike out alone. Harry will not tell anyone what happen that final night. I think neither will Ron or Hermonie. So I agree with those who said it would be an easy solution but I think Harry will take along time to figure it out.


Yeah :lol: I could just the that happening to, just to leave us all hanging :grumble:

This last book is definitely all about Harry's mission to defeat Voldemort once and for all. (hopefully *fingers crossed*) And of course the infamous last chapter where we find out what happens to everyone after the battle. :drool:

If the headmasters leave an imprint of themselves,

And powerful magic leaves an imprint,

and DD was very powerful,

wouldn't it be possible that DD left a better imprint.

i think DDportrait will talk to harry , but I will have to read the book to know what questions he would ask him or how much of the anwering can Dumbledore can do .

but it would just be too easy for Harry if Dumbledore's portrait would give him all he needs.


That is why, I am not saying that Harry will get all the help that he needs, then it won't be him alone like he has said in the end of HBP...

And Harry very clearly as he sat there under the hot sun how people who cared about him had stood in front of him one by one, his mother, his father, his godfather, and finally Dumbledore, all determined to protect him; but now that was over. He could not let anybody else stand between him and Voldemort....the last and greatest of his protectors had died and he was more alone than he had ever been before

That shows that Dumbledore's portrait will not play a very significant role, if it will. :)

And Harry very clearly as he sat there under the hot sun how people who cared about him had stood in front of him one by one, his mother, his father, his godfather, and finally Dumbledore, all determined to protect him; but now that was over. He could not let anybody else stand between him and Voldemort....the last and greatest of his protectors had died and he was more alone than he had ever been before

That shows that Dumbledore's portrait will not play a very significant role, if it will. :)

Or it shows that Harry thinks he'll never speak to DD again and thinks he is all alone. Maybe he forgot about the portrait, because if he did think about it I'm sure he would've thought it could speak to him and help him, since the other portraits are able to do this too.

Maybe he forgot about the portrait

No he didn't, because he has seen it already, when he accompanied Minerva into her office, he saw Dumbledore's Portrait. ;)

Or it shows that Harry thinks he'll never speak to DD again and thinks he is all alone. Maybe he forgot about the portrait, because if he did think about it I'm sure he would've thought it could speak to him and help him, since the other portraits are able to do this too.

Yes I agree Lord_V, I think he forgot about the portrait, after all at that moment he was still mourning Dumbledore and thinking about the loss he had just gone through. It would have been rather strange and insenstive if Harry had thought "well Dumbledore might be dead, but at least I still have the portrait to replace him." For Harry, I am sure there was no room for thinking about a replacement Dumbledore. So I think that if he returns to Hogwarts, he might at least remember the portrait and pay it a visit. It will be interesting to see how he handles McGonagall then.

Maybe the portrait didn't want to reveal its' potential so soon. OR maybe, ans more likley, JKR wanted to save the interaction for DH.

I'm torn on this one. If Harry IS able to speak to Dumbledore's portrait, that kind of takes away the effect of him dying, and I can't see Jo doing that. It's just as if he's there, he just can't perform magic. On the other hand, if the other headmasters portraits can speak and interact, Dumbledore's should be no different, so I'm really at a loss on this one.

It's just as if he's there, he just can't perform magic.

But since DD was (one of -) the greatest wizard(s) of this time, him performing magic would be a big deal, certainly in helping Harry locating/destroying the horcruxes.

I agree with you it would bring down the idea of "DD is dead and we won't see him again" a bit, but IMO it's only logic that Harry could talk to him since the other portraits talk too and I think Jo didn't got around that by saying something like: "It can only talk when his death is processed" (like with the Thestrals).

I'm not pinning my hopes on the portrait. I just think it is too obvious for Jo to use it to give Harry help. Besides: Harry is on his own now. After DD died, it was made very clear that Harry was without his safety net (or would be very soon without the safety net--after he turns 17 and the family protection disappears), and that the rest would be up to him. Dumbledore's portrait would be about as much help as Phineas Nigellus'. It could probably give advice, but it wouldn't come up with new ideas: Dumbledore is gone, and a portrait would not be able to replicate him--if it could help him in the Horcrux search, then it would be just like DD being alive! and that, I'm inclined to think, would be cheating. Harry is on his own!

I think that Harry will definately talk to the portrait, but I don't think it'll tell Harry anything useful. Or maybe the portrait will tell Harry why Dumbledore trusted Snape...but nothing too important.

A portrait is just that : a portrait. It's not "Dumbledore speaking from the other side" - which if it was the case, then the whole concept of death in the Harry Potter books would become rubbish. In a muggle portrait, it only captures a person's physical appearance; in a wizard portrait, it additionally captures his behaviour, mood, style. An 'echo' of the dead person, if you will - not the dead person itself living in a portrait.

IMHO Dumbledore's portrait will give amusing remarks, warnings, jokes, etc not facts. Have we ever seen a portrait give facts? Things that only the dead person knew? Dumbledore's information ( including perhaps, more memories to be seen in the pensieve ) will come through Severus Snape( i.e. Snape will give information about Dumbledore and their past when Harry confronts him ), Minerva McGonagall and most importantly, Horace Slughorn.

Personally I think it will talk but only to tell Harry to trust in himself and his friends as DD made it a point to tell Harry to talk to Ron and Hermonie so I think he wants them to help him in this quest

I still think Harry, who likes to internalize everything will forget about the portrait. I can not find the quote where JRK said Dumbledore is dead, but it is not the last we heard from him. This would be the portrait I think. Also maybe Mcgonicall has found out some answers since she now inhabits the headmasters office and the advice would be how to help her help him

You guys are mistaken. Dumbledores dead. DEAD I tell you

I definately think Dumbledores portrait will be able tospeak. If it cant it would be very odd indeed because all the past heads portraits can. I think he would be immensely helpful to the Order and to Harry.BUT, as it was stated in HBP harry relizes that ALL his protecters are gone now, parents sirius, dumbledore etc. He realizes that hes alone now and has to face his demons now. I think j.k. made that very clear Harry has to face this alone.

Maybe the portrait didn't want to reveal its' potential so soon. OR maybe, ans more likley, JKR wanted to save the interaction for DH.

that seems like j.k.'s style. i really think that she could be saving it for DH.

that seems like j.k.'s style. i really think that she could be saving it for DH.

I agree that she is saving it, but you seem to think she is just waiting. I think that to make the portrait talk, it will require Harry to figure something out that will probably involve Hermione's research, and Ron's insight as to letting Hermione do everything by herself... sounds kinda familiar.

I agree that she is saving it, but you seem to think she is just waiting. I think that to make the portrait talk, it will require Harry to figure something out that will probably involve Hermione's research, and Ron's insight as to letting Hermione do everything by herself... sounds kinda familiar.

of course she's saving it! there's only one book left! and that's done! i don't think that they will have to do research or anything but i think that might end up running across another one of DD's pictures. he was very popular and he could have a portrait up in the minstiery and other places. i know that in the OOP he said that the portraites have other ones that they can move back and forth to.

If his portrait could help him, maybe Harry could just contact DD via Chocolate frogs. I think there's something more to the cards then they appear. Maybe DD communicates with them, otherwise, why was he so worried about being removed from them?

Dumbledore's portrait will most likely play a part in DH, but I don't think it will used as though Dumbledore is still alive. I mean that Harry won't talk to him daily and he won't find out a whole lot in the way of his mission from him. And how can Harry be out destroying the horcruxes if he's always in the headmaster's/headmistress' office. And obviously the portrait will be just like every other one representing old headmasters and headmistresses.

The portrait could never be as useful as Dumbledore alive...

I still to think Harry will forget about the portrait at first and than remember it later after he is well underway.

Also, I was thinking maybe Dumbledores portait will appear at 12 Grimmwald Place since he was the Head and Funder of the Order of the Phoenix. It would give Harry the access to the portait he needs.

i hoping he does,after all its like still having him around,but i dont know how much will a portrait will be able to help.

I actually think that interacting with Dumbledore's portrait will be very sad, because even though it will look like him and have a good bit of his personality and memories it will still be fundementally off and limited since it isn't really him. It's just a very good facsimile. I can certainly imagine Harry trying to ask it questions and getting upset by the fakeness and leaving, and so missing important information it gave him. Imagine what he'd do if the portrait still said, for example, "I trust Severus Snape".

I actually think that interacting with Dumbledore's portrait will be very sad, because even though it will look like him and have a good bit of his personality and memories it will still be fundementally off and limited since it isn't really him. It's just a very good facsimile. I can certainly imagine Harry trying to ask it questions and getting upset by the fakeness and leaving, and so missing important information it gave him. Imagine what he'd do if the portrait still said, for example, "I trust Severus Snape".

yeah having the portrait say that would drive harry nuts.

If his portrait could help him, maybe Harry could just contact DD via Chocolate frogs. I think there's something more to the cards then they appear. Maybe DD communicates with them, otherwise, why was he so worried about being removed from them?

o-my i never thought of that!! i think that that would be brillant!! wow, maybe that will be part of the plot!

I'm pretty sure the portrait will be extremely useful. It cannot add anything new but it's not as if anyone knew more than Dumbledore anyway so the information that that portrait currently has I think will help Harry along the way. Another thing is that Dumbledore was so popular that his portraits will probably be in many places and I think that could be useful as well. I've accepted that Dumbledore is dead but I'm able to accept it because I do know he'll still return in his portrait.

Cheers :tu:

I think it can talk, but i dont feel it havingany part in harry' s adventure. It would be cool though, if it did, cause hes like dead, but you can talk to him...pretty trippy

I think it may be possible that the portrait will be more like the Dumbledore we knew and loved than we think. After all, Phineas Nigellus was not well liked during his time as headmaster, and we can tell through his rude personality. This shows us that the portrait will carry on Dumbledore's personality, at least. Phineas also talks about "...in my day," therefore the portrait obviously has memories of living. That means so will Dumbledore's. The question is, will it carry secrets?

i just think that there's alot more to DD's portrait and maybe the chocolate frog cards then meets the eye

Well there will be some form of final communication between Harry and DD. DD has to have his Obi Wanesque final message to our hero. So yes I think this is not the last we will hear from our dear departed headmaster

Don't every portrait speak? So then why wouldn't the portrait help Harry, because I know Dumbledore will want to give Harry every edge on his fight against Voldemort.

itd be wired u would have to say but would the portrait be able to know as much as the real DD knew

would the portrait know as much has DD knew though??????

would the portrait know as much has DD knew though??????

What do we know about the function of a portrait?

Early on in the series we learn that a portrait is merley an imprint of a departed soul. It isnt really the wizard, just a memory. What we dont know is, does a portrait maintain the original wizard or witches memories or knowledge. This is ultimatley what we need to know, and we simply dont.

In OotP a portrait shouts at another, "Insabordination!" it cries at Phineus Nigelus for ignoring Dumbeldores request. The ex-headmaster keeps shouting, "We are here to serve the Headmaster of Hogwarts!" Or somthing to that respect.

So we've learned by a few comments while in Dumbeldores office thatthe portrait is mainly at the current headmasters command. While portrait wizard and witches can flitter in and out of their home based portraits in the headmasters office, this proves that, yes, Dumbeldore will be at McGonagall's services, and no doubt will Dumbeldore have made sure his portraits will be all over the UK, possibly Grimmauld Place, the burrow, the Hogshead Inn.

This would provide Harry with great help, especially if the imprint of Dumbeldore has maintained the knowledge of horcruxes and their spells.

"imprint of a departed soul" when did they say this i though it was when semus asked the differents of a ghost and inferi and that wat they called a ghost

All the paintings we have seen at Hogwarts are of dead people. They seem to be living through their portraits. How is this so? If there was a painting of Harry’s parents, would he be able to obtain advice from them?

That is a very good question. They are all of dead people; they are not as fully realised as ghosts, as you have probably noticed. The place where you see them really talk is in Dumbledore’s office, primarily; the idea is that the previous headmasters and headmistresses leave behind a faint imprint of themselves. They leave their aura, almost, in the office and they can give some counsel to the present occupant, but it is not like being a ghost. They repeat catchphrases, almost. The portrait of Sirius’ mother is not a very 3D personality; she is not very fully realised. She repeats catchphrases that she had when she was alive. If Harry had a portrait of his parents it would not help him a great deal. If he could meet them as ghosts, that would be a much more meaningful interaction, but as Nick explained at the end of Phoenix—I am straying into dangerous territory, but I think you probably know what he explained—there are some people who would not come back as ghosts because they are unafraid, or less afraid, of death.

If Dumbledore is only able to do the things that the other portraits of headmasters and mistresses can do and not much more, he could still be of some help to Harry. Although he might not be able to give Harry information about the horcruxes, he could still "spy" somewhere for Harry. That's only possible of course if he really has another portrait.

I wonder if the headmasters portraits are capable of leaving their portraits to visit other portraits at Hogwarts Castle, like the normal ones can do. If so, Dumbledore could wander around. Has there ever been anything said about this?

If Dumbledore is only able to do the things that the other portraits of headmasters and mistresses can do and not much more, he could still be of some help to Harry. Although he might not be able to give Harry information about the horcruxes, he could still "spy" somewhere for Harry. That's only possible of course if he really has another portrait.

I wonder if the headmasters portraits are capable of leaving their portraits to visit other portraits at Hogwarts Castle, like the normal ones can do. If so, Dumbledore could wander around. Has there ever been anything said about this?

i don't ever remember reading anything about them being able to move around the other portraits in the castle. all i remember is that they could move to their other portraits that they had some place else, but they might be able to.

I think it can speak, since all the others can. but the only other pictures have been assigned to assist the current headmaster/mistress of the school, not to help the pupils although that theory may have a hole put in it.

I certianly hope that DD picture will be able to talk and help Harry but I have my doubts. See all the other portraits from my point of view died of old age or something like that. DD however died from the AK curse which we know is an evil one. AK strikes me as a curse that kills from with in and not only destroy's a wizards heart but also there soul or essence. Is is possible that because of this type of death there will be no imprint left to speak to Harry? I may be off any thoughts?

I think it can speak, since all the others can. but the only other pictures have been assigned to assist the current headmaster/mistress of the school, not to help the pupils although that theory may have a hole put in it.

They are meant to help the headmaster/mistress yes, but they are also capable of conversing with other people. There might be something in this, but it's impossible to tell so far really.

I certianly hope that DD picture will be able to talk and help Harry but I have my doubts. See all the other portraits from my point of view died of old age or something like that. DD however died from the AK curse which we know is an evil one. AK strikes me as a curse that kills from with in and not only destroy's a wizards heart but also there soul or essence. Is is possible that because of this type of death there will be no imprint left to speak to Harry? I may be off any thoughts?

That is a very interesting theory!

I could be possible, since Dumbledore's portrait was asleep when Harry saw it, of course there are other explanations for this as well, but yes it is possible.

I think it can speak, since all the others can. but the only other pictures have been assigned to assist the current headmaster/mistress of the school, not to help the pupils although that theory may have a hole put in it.

but we don't really know if it JUST for the headmasters and headmistresses.
that doesn't mean that they can't help harry because they talked 2 harry before. plus knowing how popular dumbledore was i'm pretty sure he's gonna have more portraits elsewhere.

I certianly hope that DD picture will be able to talk and help Harry but I have my doubts. See all the other portraits from my point of view died of old age or something like that. DD however died from the AK curse which we know is an evil one. AK strikes me as a curse that kills from with in and not only destroy's a wizards heart but also there soul or essence. Is is possible that because of this type of death there will be no imprint left to speak to Harry? I may be off any thoughts?

Well then how did Harry's parents speak to him during Priori Incantatem? That must have been their souls speaking to him, yet they had the Avada Kedavra performed on them...

it will be able to speak and it will be able to help harry because JKR stated herself that he will play an important role in book 7. And as we've seen in the previous books, the portraits of previous headmasters are able to communicate.

I don't think the portrait will help but I wonder if Harry will force his and Snape's wands to battle. Then as Dumbledore states, "If, however, the owners of the wands force the wands to do battle... a very rare effect will take place. One of the wands will force the other to regurgitate spells it has performed - in reverse." That would mean that Dumbledore would appear and be able to give some advice.

That's a plausible idea but i dont know that this can happen to any two wands... is he not describing priori incantatem itself?

Does anyone think Albus has more than one portrait? Phineas had two, the frog-like man in the Prime Minister's office had two, Dilys had two and Everard had two. Albus says of the latter two, "Their renown is such that both have portraits hanging in other important Wizarding institutions." (Everard in the Ministry, Dilys at St. Mungo's). Phineas has his additional portrait in the ancestral family home (Grimmauld Place). Shouldn't Albus have a second portrait somewhere besides Hogwarts, considering his fame and renown?

exactly what I was thinking - Where Dumbledore's portraits would have been hung is an important and interesting concept.
I've thought of hogwarts, maybe the ministry, maybe grimwald place but where else do you think he would have a portrait?

I do believe that Harry will be able to discuss and access all information up to his death.

they are hounor bound to serve the headmaster
so the head can find out what dd said in his office
so know about the houcx if magonagel is the new head this wount be to
bad but if someone with ties to the des or the mom get the job it would make harryts task harder

I agree that Harry will return to Hogwarts to go to the Headmasters /missterss office in this case and these are speaking portaits if you ask them a question so I think Harry might go there to ask him questions and maybe get some advice in how to find and destroy the Horcruxes so yes I believe Dumbledore's portrait will help Harry at some stuff but not alot .

I can't wait to find out how JKR will solve this one in book 7 . :relax:

I don't think any of the portraits in the headmaster's office will be obligated to talk to Harry, including Dumbledore's unless Harry is the current headmaster (unlikely). The portraits are duty bound to the current headmaster. We have a least one instance where Harry was outside the office and heard a large discussion, but when entering it was only Dumbledore. It was obvious that Dumbledore was talking to the portraits, but the portraits usually feign sleep or quietly listen when others are in the room. The only portrait to directly interact with Harry was Phineas and that was on direct orders from Dumbledore.

With Dumbledore's outlook on death being the the next step to a well ordered mind (can't remember exact words), then I would assume that he will have left other clues/help for Harry. We are also forgetting that Harry will need to be escorted up the spiral staircase to even get to the headmaster's office. The only reason Harry was able to so often get their on his own was because he knew of Dumbledore's fondness for sweets and was able to guess the passwords. I doubt the new headmaster will use the same password scheme.

I don't think any of the portraits in the headmaster's office will be obligated to talk to Harry, including Dumbledore's unless Harry is the current headmaster (unlikely). The portraits are duty bound to the current headmaster. We have a least one instance where Harry was outside the office and heard a large discussion, but when entering it was only Dumbledore. It was obvious that Dumbledore was talking to the portraits, but the portraits usually feign sleep or quietly listen when others are in the room. The only portrait to directly interact with Harry was Phineas and that was on direct orders from Dumbledore.

The next headmaster would be McGonagall correct? Doesn't that mean that she can force the portrats to do for / tell Harry whatever Harry needs in order to defeat Lord Voldemort. Somehow I don't see McGonagall standing in the way of that. She would want to help Harry in any way possible. This is of course assuming that she still will be headmistress in book 7.

I don't think DD's portrait will be any help to Harry.
I believe that Jo killed off DD so Harry would have to finish off Voldemort all by himself. I don't think he's really going to have any help at all, in the end.

If McGonagall does become the headmistress, she could very well consult with the portraits. However, will she know what to ask them? What if anything does McGonagall know of horcruxes and of Dumbledore's/Harry's quest to defeat Voldemort. Harry has already shown a reluctance to include McGonagall and I don't see that changing unless something in the books motivates him to turn to the current Hogwart's head.

We know that the portraits can offer an opinion without being asked, since Phineas does object to Harry's actions when he is destroying Dumbledore's office in OotP. Also the other portraits make statements when Dumbledore was going to be arrested. The question really is how much do the portraits know and can they volunteer that information? Since Dumbledore in his life kept his plans very secretive, why should his portrait be any different? I just don't see Dumbledore's portrait suddenly becoming a open book so to speak.

The biggest question of all for me will be how will the readers find out why Dumbledore really trusted Snape. I don't believe that what Harry knows and told others at the end of HBP about Dumbledore's trust is the whole story.

We know that the portraits can offer an opinion without being asked, since Phineas does object to Harry's actions when he is destroying Dumbledore's office in OotP. Also the other portraits make statements when Dumbledore was going to be arrested. The question really is how much do the portraits know and can they volunteer that information? Since Dumbledore in his life kept his plans very secretive, why should his portrait be any different? I just don't see Dumbledore's portrait suddenly becoming a open book so to speak.

I don't think that the portait will become an open book at all, to just anyone that is. I think that if Harry were to gain access to the portraits and (with some coercing from McGonagall if needed) talked to them, that Dumbledore's portrait would have no trouble letting Harry know anything that he needs/wants to know. The real Dumbledore had no trouble (for the most part) sharing information with Harry that it was necessary for him to know. I don't see portrait Dumbledore being any different.

I think the portrait is an imprint of Dumbledore just like the ghosts are imprints. That is not to say that a portrait is a ghost, just that they can have the same level of consciousness. I doubt Dumbledore is bound by virtue of being a former headmaster to reveal information to McGonagall that is unrelated to being headmistress of the school. Horcruxes being one example of such unrelated information, I don't think Dumbledore will share that information with McGonagall, especially since he had not when he was alive.

I think the portrait knows everything Dumbledore knew at the moment of his death and will be able to tell Harry how he hurt his hand and will be able to help Harry analyze any remaining memories he left for him. Besides having a portrait in Hogwarts, I think Dumbledore has one in the Ministry, and maybe one wherever Aberforth lives and also wherever his home away from Hogwarts is if he had one.

I think it's probable that Dumbledore's portrait will be able to talk. However I don't think that Harry is going to be relying on Dumbledore's painting for advice. I think that dumbledores death was sort of a way for Rowling to give Harry the chance to be in charge of his future and make his own conclusions without the help from someone else. I imagine that Dumbledore will speak through his portrait at some point in the last book though.

Dumbledore's portrait will DEFINITELY help Harry do whatever he needs to do.

I agree with the people who say that killing off DD is a way for Harry to vanquish Voldemort in his own right. DD has given Harry the tools, and there remain several people around Harry who will be of assistance. This is what JKR said about portraits in the Edinburgh Book Festival interview:
"That is a very good question. They are all of dead people; they are not as fully realised as ghosts, as you have probably noticed. The place where you see them really talk is in Dumbledore’s office, primarily; the idea is that the previous headmasters and headmistresses leave behind a faint imprint of themselves. They leave their aura, almost, in the office and they can give some counsel to the present occupant, but it is not like being a ghost. They repeat catchphrases, almost."
So...if Harry gets to visit DD's portrait, would he really be able to give him any new information?

In any case, whether Harry gets "help" from DD or not is pending on whether Hogwarts reopens next year, right?

If the school is closed:
Harry is on his own, and as I already mentioned, he will have to rely on himself and the assistance of his friends, Ron and Hermione especially; I think in this book, they will have a bigger role. Should Harry choose to tell Order members about the Horcruxes, they can help him too.

If the school stays open:
If Harry doesn't inform McGonagall of the circumstances, what reason does she have to let Harry kick her out of her office to engage in private converstations with Dumbledore?

Does anyone think Albus has more than one portrait? Phineas had two, the frog-like man in the Prime Minister's office had two, Dilys had two and Everard had two. Albus says of the latter two, "Their renown is such that both have portraits hanging in other important Wizarding institutions." (Everard in the Ministry, Dilys at St. Mungo's). Phineas has his additional portrait in the ancestral family home (Grimmauld Place). Shouldn't Albus have a second portrait somewhere besides Hogwarts, considering his fame and renown?

That's a very good point! He definitely should have two portraits... I wonder where the other one will be if he does have two...

Hmm, I don't think the portrait will really help that much. I believe they only contain certain memories and are only partially that much of the actual person. I believe at most he could give just a little certain advise, but I don't see Dumbledore's painting giving away anything that could be plot-twisting to the story or giving Harry instructions on what exactly it is he needs to do.

That's a very good point! He definitely should have two portraits... I wonder where the other one will be if he does have two...

I think either with Aberforth (thus maybe in his private rooms in the Hogs Head?) or at the Ministry of Magic. Although the Ministry didn't like Dumbledore's "interference" into what they consider Ministry business, which could make it possible that they don't want a portrait from him there.

HesHPfan:
I think either with Aberforth (thus maybe in his private rooms in the Hogs Head?) or at the Ministry of Magic. Although the Ministry didn't like Dumbledore's "interference" into what they consider Ministry business, which could make it possible that they don't want a portrait from him there.

But before OOTP, Fudge always asked Dumbledore for help with the Ministry. And he was a very famous and respected wizard too, so maybe he did have a portrait at the Ministry. But when he started claiming that Voldemort was back, the Ministry tried to remove his portrait, but they couldn't, sort of like the sticking charm that's on the back of the portrait of Sirius' mom.

But before OOTP, Fudge always asked Dumbledore for help with the Ministry. And he was a very famous and respected wizard too, so maybe he did have a portrait at the Ministry. But when he started claiming that Voldemort was back, the Ministry tried to remove his portrait, but they couldn't, sort of like the sticking charm that's on the back of the portrait of Sirius' mom.

That would mean that people that are alive can have moving portraits too. I am not sure if that's really possible, but maybe it is.

I always presumed that Dumbledore was in contact with Fudge via owls and that if he was really needed he would go to the Ministry (or Fudge would come to him).

Dumbledore was respected during his life of course but portraits like the paintings from headmasters, important people in St Mungo's and the Ministry seem to have an advisory task after they die, because they do posses a lot of wisdom. So I don't think persons that are alive are painted for this kind of portraits.

HesHPfan:
That would mean that people that are alive can have moving portraits too. I am not sure if that's really possible, but maybe it is.

I always presumed that Dumbledore was in contact with Fudge via owls and that if he was really needed he would go to the Ministry (or Fudge would come to him).

Dumbledore was respected during his life of course but portraits like the paintings from headmasters, important people in St Mungo's and the Ministry seem to have an advisory task after they die, because they do posses a lot of wisdom. So I don't think persons that are alive are painted for this kind of portraits.

True, it makes me wonder how these portraits are created though . . .

i think it would make sense for harry to be helped by dumbledores prtrait, but im just wondering how dumbledore will react to harry with the "fake" horcrux. maybe dumbledore will have an explanation. i think that should be the first question he asks dumbledores portrait.

Potterschic:
i think it would make sense for harry to be helped by dumbledores prtrait, but im just wondering how dumbledore will react to harry with the "fake" horcrux. maybe dumbledore will have an explanation. i think that should be the first question he asks dumbledores portrait.

That definitely would be one of the questions I would ask Dumbledore, along with why he always trusted Snape so much. But I don't think that Dumbledore's portrait will wake up, at least not until the end, because Dumbledore has so many answers to a lot of questions that Harry and us readers have, and it'll be much more mysterious if Harry has to find those answers for himself. And if Dumbledore wakes up at the beginning, I think he'll just give Harry some vague piece of advice, and then go straight back to sleep again.

I think that it will be shown that a portrait is indeed just that--a portrait. Perhaps reflecting the personality of the posee, but without all of the knowledge (and especially) abilities.

I don't think that it will provide more than moral support and general guidance. Besides...portraits are honor bound to assist the headmistress. :D

The portrait is gonna have to speak. All the headmaster protraits are there to support the exsisting head and all the previous portraits speak. whether Dumbledore's portrait will be any good to Harry we will have to wait an see.

I dont know if it has any info it would have to give it to the new head
as tight as DDwas keeping this info he wouldnt chance it,he know that there is a chace that one of his d people might not get the job

we know it can speak given ever other portad can (previded the subject could)

most agree he will go to hogworts in book seven(granted the qution of if as a studen is stilll under debate)
so will he go to the heads office
will he be in it with some one dd trust ?

That would mean that people that are alive can have moving portraits too. I am not sure if that's really possible, but maybe it is.

If you don't remember when the Weasleys went to Egypt the took a picture and when Harry was shown the picture it was moving. You don't have to be dead to have a moving picture. Also the chocolate frog card of Dumbledore was moving and he wasn't dead in the beginning.

But I do believe that Dumbledores portrait will give Harry advice and help.

If you don't remember when the Weasleys went to Egypt the took a picture and when Harry was shown the picture it was moving. You don't have to be dead to have a moving picture. Also the chocolate frog card of Dumbledore was moving and he wasn't dead in the beginning.



That was a photograph, they are different from paintings, since paintings can talk and photographs can't as far as we are aware. So obviously with photo's you can still be alive, with paintings it's a mystery.

good point!!!!!!! I can't wait for the book to find out.

i think Dumbledore will have a portrait but how many of the former headmasters were killed by the AK curse while weakened by a potion made by the dark lord?I'm just wondering if any of this might affect whether the portrait will speak or not.

We're still not sure when Dumbledore's portrait will wake up...It will probably be of some use to Harry, like Jo said.

I've been thinking about this all summer, I'm sure there will be something to do with the portrait.

no doubt the portrait would be helpful to harry if it talked.I do think that the portrait will talk but considering the way dumbledore died,that could have an effect on the whole portrait thing.

i think Dumbledore will have a portrait but how many of the former headmasters were killed by the AK curse while weakened by a potion made by the dark lord?I'm just wondering if any of this might affect whether the portrait will speak or not.

It could have an effect, although you could say a dead person is a dead person and it doesn't matter that how he died.

I think that Dumbledore's portrait is quite the same as the other former Head of Hogwarts portraits. It was just sleeping like the portraits usually do when not needed and he had just died, that's rather exhausting after all.

It could have an effect, although you could say a dead person is a dead person and it doesn't matter that how he died.

I think that Dumbledore's portrait is quite the same as the other former Head of Hogwarts portraits. It was just sleeping like the portraits usually do when not needed and he had just died, that's rather exhausting after all.

That is true since we really don't know how any of the other headmasters died,it could have no effect.Either way we'll find out if the portrait talks or not,once the final book comes out in,i believe 2 weeks.

That is true since we really don't know how any of the other headmasters died,it could have no effect.Either way we'll find out if the portrait talks or not,once the final book comes out in,i believe 2 weeks.
I believe that the portait will talk and all that, but i don't think that Harry will be able to have an hour long convosation discussing where and what the horcruxes are, or how to destroy them. Instead, it will mainly be saying some of Dumbledore's catchphases, like Jo has said that the other portaits have always done in the past.

I think DD's portrait will be able to help, but I definitely don't think it's going to give Harry all the answers, and I don't think it'll say anything about DD's reason for trusting Snape. I think one reason DD hasn't told Harry exactly what his "iron-clad" reason for trusting Snape is, is because it actually is iron-clad, meaning clearly definitive as to where Snape's loyalties lie. We know, because of the Occlumency issue, that Voldemort can access Harry's thoughts. If DD just told Harry at DH beginning, and Voldemort reads it in Harry's mind, then the jig is up for double-agent Snape.

I do think DD's portrait will help the Order. If Snape is still an Order member, gone way deep undercover, then a portrait of DD would make a very tidy way of communicating with McGonagall, wouldn't it? I think DD probably has a couple of portraits out there, and we know they can travel and make reports. I just wonder if DD's portrait could keep a secret from the Hogwarts Headmistress as to where it's getting its information.

Dumbledore being one of the greatest wizards of all time could have put some kind of charm on his personal portrait so that it could actually think for it's self. This way he could still help the order. I also believe that he left a lot of valuable thoughts for Haarry to go through in the pensieve.

i think that the portrait will be important but it certantly cant give harry all of the answers because then it would be too easy maybe dumbledore can help him find the horcruxes but harry must find how to get them i dont know

The portrait can talk, as at the end of HBP, Mcgonagal is seen talking to the portrait. as to whether it will help, i think that it might not be his ACTUAL portrait, and the picture FROm the portrait will help Harry.

although i dont doubt that at some point in Harry's adventure, he WILL go see the penseive, and the portrait might, at that point, help harry.

Yes the portrait can talk they all can...

As to whether it will help him or not, I don't know

We don't know how much of a person's personality is imprinted on those portraits. So it is really hard to tell.

If anything the portrait could be a source of comfort for him

it seems to me that while DD's portrait may have some information, he is only a representation of the actual person, and therefore can not have all the answers. His main purpose is to advise Minerva.

Yea, because if it could help him then it would have to be more than that imprint, like a Horcrux and DD would never make a Horcrux, and neither would the other headmasters for that matter...that I know of

I believe it can talk just like the other portraits and it can help Harry, but I don't think he knows where the other horcruxes are ( except maby for the locket) so it won't help very much.

Dumbledore being one of the greatest wizards of all time could have put some kind of charm on his personal portrait so that it could actually think for it's self. This way he could still help the order. I also believe that he left a lot of valuable thoughts for Haarry to go through in the pensieve.

Interesting idea, could be possible. I don't think Dumbledore has told Harry everything he knew before he died, so this could be a perfect way to do so.

But Dumbledore has also always had the purpose to let Harry find out things for himself, so if he had hexed his portrait to give it extra power to be very human like it would defeat Dumbledore's purpose.

good idea!
yes it can speak, but i doubt it would be able to help Harry to do anything.

Jo

I really think it may serve a big role. I think this is the Dumbledore that Jo was refering too when she was talking to Daniel Redcliffe. I'm not sure what he'll know though, that will be interesting.

I really think it may serve a big role. I think this is the Dumbledore that Jo was refering too when she was talking to Daniel Redcliffe. I'm not sure what he'll know though, that will be interesting.

What did Jo say and where? Do you have a link or quote? Because I have no idea what she has said exactly.

What did Jo say and where?When she visited the OotP set, she said something about having trouble with Dumbledore while writing DH and Dan made a comment about him being dead, I think. Let me check some more threads, I can't find it on MuggleNet (though that's where I read it).

ETA: You can find the quote in the opening post of JKR quote indicates Dumbledore will return in Deathly Hallows (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=101419). :)

I think that, yes, Dumbledore's portrait will speak to Harry just as many of the other portraits have shown capable of having conversations about present day events or situations that they were not alive for. So, in that sense I think that Dumbledore would be able to discuss the horocrux with Harry. It may even be possible that he could reason new information as it unfolds in regards to Harry's journey and tell Harry what to do.

But will he?

eh.

I don't really see what the point of Dumbledore's death would have been if he lived on in his portrait exactly as if he were alive. I think that there must be certain things that portraits are not capable of. This will prevent Harry from relying on a picture.

Really it would just be odd if Harry carried around Dumbledore's painting and had full length conversations with him as if he was talking to Dumbledore on the phone and watching his picture through a television, or as if he was talking to him through online video. It's just too easy.

Besides, I don't think it will be necessary for Harry to rely on Dumbledore's picture. I'm sure Dumbledore set things up in such a way that if he were to die Harry would still be able to obtain the information he needs to defeat Voldemort.

When she visited the OotP set, she said something about having trouble with Dumbledore while writing DH and Dan made a comment about him being dead, I think. Let me check some more threads, I can't find it on MuggleNet (though that's where I read it).

ETA: You can find the quote in the opening post of JKR quote indicates Dumbledore will return in Deathly Hallows (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=101419). :)

Ahh thanks Nicole :)

So that quote might indicate indeed that Dumbledore will return in some form. HPsoccer1216 I think that you are right that it's most likely the portrait JKR refers too. Maybe she wondered if she would give it more abilities then a usual portrait?


Really it would just be odd if Harry carried around Dumbledore's painting and had full length conversations with him as if he was talking to Dumbledore on the phone and watching his picture through a television, or as if he was talking to him through online video. It's just too easy.


I don't think Harry would carry the painting with him, because it's still has to serve the headmaster/mistress and probably needs to stay in the office. What I imagine is that Harry might return to Hogwarts just before he starts his hunt for the horcruxes, maybe to get something Dumbledore left to him. Harry then might have a talk with McGonagall and have some time alone with Portrait Dumbledore. The painting won't be able to tell him a lot, but give some vague hints and that's it.

The portrait can talk, as at the end of HBP, Mcgonagal is seen talking to the portrait. as to whether it will help, i think that it might not be his ACTUAL portrait, and the picture FROm the portrait will help Harry.

although i dont doubt that at some point in Harry's adventure, he WILL go see the penseive, and the portrait might, at that point, help harry.

I agree. At some point in the seventh book Harry will return to Hogwarts.

The portrait can talk, as at the end of HBP, Mcgonagal is seen talking to the portrait. as to whether it will help, i think that it might not be his ACTUAL portrait, and the picture FROm the portrait will help Harry.

Dumbledore's portrait never talked in HBP. When Harry and McGonagall are in the headmasters office after the battle at Hogwarts, it only slept. It never opened it's eyes. So although I don't doubt that it will be able to speak, it hasn't done so yet.

Dumbledore's portrait never talked in HBP. When Harry and McGonagall are in the headmasters office after the battle at Hogwarts, it only slept. It never opened it's eyes. So although I don't doubt that it will be able to speak, it hasn't done so yet.

I believe you're right, but as the other portraits can speak and think of their own, I think Dumbledore will be able too.

I fully believe that this is the "some form" that JKR said Dumbledore would appear as in book 7.
The portrait is going to give Harry advice, but I think it's going to be tricky buissness, because the portrait is no subsitute for the real person.

i'm still not sure i think the portrait may not give all he can to harry because, yes he does want to help harry but the more harry finds out for himself the better he will understand, maybe he will just help harry to understand things better and help him decide what to do next, but as hard as it is for me to say this i dont think dumbledore will be that important in this last book.

Jo's said herself that portraits, like Inferi (but not in an evil way), are like imprints or memories of a departed soul. They can't really advise or counsel, only say a few things.

Besides, if he was just as useful in portrait form, his death would not have meant anything. Why not just carry his portrait around everywhere and find the Horcruxes with it?

~ Adhish

I do hope that Dumbledore's portait will be able to give Harry some kind of information. I don't that it would be able to explian that information in the way that the real Dumbledore did, but it may be able to give him little bits of information.

There's no reason it won't be the same as the other portraits, the question is, how much knowledge does it has, how does the enchantment work?

The paintings, including Dumbledore, has some importance to them. they're there for a reason. So the painting with Dumbledore will help Harry very much.

I think that DD's portrait will be able to help Harry in a similar way that he helped him before his death. Or, at least, the portrait will still be able to give the same advice and assistence.

Things to consider:
1. Dumbledore likely relayed most of what he knew about Voldemort to Harry previous to his death. Hence, further assistence will not give away the plot or anything because DD cannot tell Harry everything there is to know...they will figure it out together.

2. This is important if 1 is going to work. The portrait has to be more than just a remnant of DD's appearance. Though it is obviously not DD's soul trapped on canvas or anything, it will still be able to reason etc. like a wizard. Basis for this hypothesis: All the other portraits in the office not only remember what happened when they were headmaster/headmistress, they are also quite opinionated about what SHOULD happen in the present . This suggests they have reasoning power and maintain personality/ability.

Dumbledore's portrait, like all of the other portrait, will be a physical representation of DD's personality. It looks like him, sounds like him, moves like him, and can give advice like he would...

That being said, the portrait is limited in many ways:

1) It is a stationary object that is in the office of the Headmistress/Headmaster of Hogwarts, which Harry has already expressed that he will not be returning to. That doesn't mean he won't go there for other reasons, but he won't be attending school.

2) If Harry does come to Hogwarts to get DD's possessions or for whatever, and he does talk to the portrait, the portrait is still limited in how much it is capable of helping. All he may find is some comfort and some advice... that's about it.

I believe that DD knew his time was almost up, and that he told Harry everything that he possibly could tell him that would be beneficial to him...

If anything becomes of the portrait, I don't think it will likely be more insight...

Now that being said, if Harry does find some insight somewhere, DD's memories would be a good place, and therefore I think that the pensieve would be more helpful...just my opinion

I think that DD's portrait will be able to help Harry in a similar way that he helped him before his death. Or, at least, the portrait will still be able to give the same advice and assistence.

Things to consider:
1. Dumbledore likely relayed most of what he knew about Voldemort to Harry previous to his death. Hence, further assistence will not give away the plot or anything because DD cannot tell Harry everything there is to know...they will figure it out together.

2. This is important if 1 is going to work. The portrait has to be more than just a remnant of DD's appearance. Though it is obviously not DD's soul trapped on canvas or anything, it will still be able to reason etc. like a wizard. Basis for this hypothesis: All the other portraits in the office not only remember what happened when they were headmaster/headmistress, they are also quite opinionated about what SHOULD happen in the present . This suggests they have reasoning power and maintain personality/ability.

I agree compleatly. I have always believed that the portrits have to be able to learn new information and dispense timely, current, advice.

I think his portrait will be important, although it won't be Dumbledore in person it could still be useful. I think Harry will spend some brief time at Hogwarts, probably to find out more about Dumbledore's pensieve, talk to McGonnagall about his quest (I think he'll tell her eventually) and so on. And of course, say goodbye to Hagrid whom he might not see for a long time.

Yes I think it can speak. All of the other portraits can speak, so why not Dumbledores?

I don't think it will help Harry for only one or two horcruxes, maybe give harry a clue where it is, but he won't do much. He will want Harry to do it himself.

In chamber of secrets... Dumbledore says the line about how he will never be gone as long as those who remain are loyal to him... will that matter now that he is dead? Or will his portrait be how he "remains"?

We did see DD's portrait sleeping in book 6. I always wondered why Harry or anyone else did not try to talk to it.

I just have one concern. Harry has been very tight-lipped with McGonagall lately. Will she allow him to consult DD's portrait in the Headmaster's office? Will she allow him to free access whenever he needs it and without her being there?

She should, though she may be reluctant. Despite all of the trio's adventures, they are still her students and she has always treated them as such.

Perhaps there is some waiting period for a portrait to finally wake up.

I don't think the prtrait in the Head's office will be the only one. Remember, we're told that it depends on how famous the wizard is, so with Dumbledore, there would be one at Hogwarts, one at the Ministry (the Wizengamot), one at the International Confederation of Wizards....who knows where else. Probably in his family home as well, much as Phineas Nigellus.

Is it possible to use the chocolate frog pictures, because they are pictures of dumbledore?

I think that JKR said that the Chocolate Frog cards were "a good idea" but I don't think they will work, I think that Harry will only be able to talk to him through the portrait, because I've always had the impression that the chocolate frog cards were photographs, and we know that photographs can make the odd noise but they can't talk like portraits can

We did see DD's portrait sleeping in book 6. I always wondered why Harry or anyone else did not try to talk to it.

Because he wasn't alone with it. McGonagall would have been listening and Harry had promised not to talk about the horcruxes etc with anyone besides Ron and Hermione. He couldn't have asked McGonagall to leave her own office for a while.

I just have one concern. Harry has been very tight-lipped with McGonagall lately. Will she allow him to consult DD's portrait in the Headmaster's office? Will she allow him to free access whenever he needs it and without her being there?

The Order is aware that Harry is of vital importance to the defeat of Voldemort in the end, so I think McGonagall will try to help Harry as much as possible. Dumbledore might have given her instructions in regard to Harry in case something would happen to him. So I think she will give him access to the portrait.

I don't think the prtrait in the Head's office will be the only one. Remember, we're told that it depends on how famous the wizard is, so with Dumbledore, there would be one at Hogwarts, one at the Ministry (the Wizengamot), one at the International Confederation of Wizards....who knows where else. Probably in his family home as well, much as Phineas Nigellus.

I think there will probably be other portraits of Dumbledore as well but I don't think it is likely that the ministry will be in a big rush to put up a portrait of Dumbledore, as they are were not quite happy with him, during the last part of his life.

They were more happy with him in his last year than the previous two years

I think there will probably be other portraits of Dumbledore as well but I don't think it is likely that the ministry will be in a big rush to put up a portrait of Dumbledore, as they are were not quite happy with him, during the last part of his life.

I tend to agree here, I don't think Scrimgeour will like a Dumbledore portrait in his Ministry. He might have the feeling that someone is watching his every move. Even though the portrait can't really do anything, they might still feel that it influences the Ministry in a bad way.

I think it all depends on where the portrait was in the Ministry. I mean if it was in Scrimgeour's Office (highly unlikely) I don't think he would be happy about it. However if the portrait was in the foyer/ atrium I don't think he would be all that bothered...

I was just intending to say that there will likely be other places that Harry has access to Dumbledore's portrait than just the Head's office.

And for all we know, McGonagall is one of the early deaths in the book, so her wishes wouldn't be a factor at all.

But if McGonnagal dies, then Harry has to put up with someone else in the office...someone who may not let Harry into the office at all...