The Picture of Tom Marvolo Riddle

Discussion for The Picture of Tom Marvolo Riddle (http://www.mugglenet.com/editorials/editorials/edit-dsmith01.shtml) by Dawson Smith.

very interesting. I've never actually read Dorian Gray so I wasn't aware of the parrellels. But wow they are huge!

I have not read the book you refer to either, but the parallels are depicted very logically.I believe that the point about Grindlewald(or how ever you spell that) is a good question...does "G" have a bigger role in Voldemort becoming Voldemort than we know? OR is he just some one that Dumbledore defeated? Also, your editorial made me think of another question. Has Knockturn Alley always been dark and creepy? That's where Borgin and Burke's is located...so that may have some relevance. After all, how could Tom keep his good reputation if he was working in a less than nice part of town?

Excellent, superb analysis.

This is one of the best I've read so far. I have nothing more to say now, but I will later.

I really love this. It's refreshing to have an editorial that is purely and sensibly analytical. This Dorian Gray book sounds like a good one.

I liked the parallels you bought out in this editorial but I always thought that it was an old Jewish pawnbroker that he murdered in Crime and Punishment and felt immense guilt about it. That said Dorian Gray and Voldemort do seem to have quite a bit in common as regards to wishing for immortality and stopping at nothing to achieve this end by being thoroughly nasty evil characters. Also didn't Slughorn tell Tom about Horcruxes while he was still a student so I guess there would be some book somewhere - though not at Hogwarts apparently that would give instructions on how to make a Horcrux and so Knockturn Alley seems just the place to find a book like this and possibly at Borgin and Burkes as they had all sort of horrible black magic items in their shop so why wouldn't an evil book on Horcruxes be among them. (Sorry for the overlong sentence and rambling on like this)

Like many other reviewers I have not read Dorian Gray so I have to assume the parallels are there. In this case this is one of the best editorials I have read recently. It will be interesting to see if the parallels play out along the same lines in Deathly Hallows as they do in Dorian Gray.

The parallels are uncanny. This Editorial is fantastic . I read Dorian Gray years ago. I bet he found a book on Dark Arts on Knockturn alley before he lift school. To make a Horcruxs.

Well I havent read that book but it is interesting to think that if it plays out similar. We all have been wondering how Harry will defeat Voldemort, and what that glimmer of hope in DD eyes were, and what if it has soemthing to do the fact that if Voldemort hits Harry with an Avadra Kedavra and ends up killing himself but some sort of connection we aren totally aware of yet. I like the thought!

I never read the book, but I knew what happened. You bring up an interesting point. :tu:

Crime and Punishment deals with a man murdering a prostitute, thinking himself a "superman" who is strong enough to deal with the emotional ramifications, and who was smart enough to avoid any possible conviction.

Yeah, it was definitely a pawnbroker (we just had to read it in AP Lit class) but I don't remember her being Jewish. Otherwise it was a very interesting editorial. I haven't read Dorian Gray, but now I think I might add it to my book list for when the semester ends next week.

Very, very interesting. I loved this Editorial (Like many others have said) It will be interesting to see whether the parellels carry on through Deathly Hallows!

This was a very interesting train of thought and it made me think. It seems an unrelated thought but Harry knows Borgin and Burkes was responsible indirectly for Dumbledore's death. The day he Ron and Hermione listened with extendable ears while under Harry's invisibility cloak outside of B&B's is when he found this out and if he thinks about it, Borgin owes him one. Borgin is another one who may have knowledge of what objects Voldemort was interested in as well. Does he know where Harry might find the Horcruxes? Will Harry have to use persuasive techniques on Borgin? It seems out of character unless Harry goes on a rampage due to anger.

And what about Olivander? Did he take all his wands with him? Is he going to help Harry? What significance will Diagon Alley and Knockturn Alley have in book 7? I am not sure how all this relates to the editorial but it made me think of these two men.

Well, like a lot of people who have commented, I haven't read Oscar Wilde's The Picture of Dorian Gray. However, I am slightly familar with the story from watching the film The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen. I found the parallels facinating and I thought the opening paragraph of this editorial was brilliently written.
It'll be interesting to see if the parallels playout during Deathly Hallows, and I'm sure Voldemort's quest for imortallity will in the end be his own undoing.
I also like your theory that Voldemort didn't learn his knowlege of Horcruxes and the Dark Arts from Grindelwald. I could see Jo giving us a red herring with her mention of Dumbledore defeating the previous Dark Lord. I also like the idea that Voldemort got a lot of his knowlege when he was working in Borgin and Burke's and find it believeable that Harry and Co. might make a trip to Knockturn Alley in book seven.
Over all, a very well written, presented and thought prevoking editorial. :clap:

Interesting theory to Voldemort's end.. we'll never know for sure, of course, but somehow, I can see it happening... :yuhup:

Cheers!

Really good editorial--one that I wish I, English major that I was, had written. It's possible that Voldemort's demise will bear some resemblance to Dorian's.

You lost me on the last paragraph, though. What "futile, desperate, self-serving" acts are you thinking of in connection with Snape? When, as Dumbledore says, "he rejoined our side before Lord Voldemort's downfall and turned spy for us, at great personal risk"--apparently in an effort to save those whom his telling of the Prophecy endangered (Dumbledore, "Seer Overheard, HBP) and which would have worked if James hadn't made an insane choice for Secret Keeper? When he tried to stop Quirrell from killing Harry during a Quidditch match in Stone? When he provided one of the protections for the Stone? When he showed Fudge his Dark Mark in Goblet in an effort to help Dumbledore convince him that Voldemort was back? When he appeared in Moody's Foe Glass with McG and Dumbledore in GoF? When he contacted the Order as soon as Harry warned him that Sirius was in danger in Order? HBP is definitely a problem, but it's clear that we don't know everything about that yet.

Very good editorial. You're not the first to mention similarities between The Picture of Dorian Gray and Voldemort's Horcruxes, but I believe you spotted a few additional parallels.

I especially liked your comparison between Merope's disastrous 'love story' and Sybil's fate. I think that's particularly important because it's not just a reference, or an echo, of Dorian Gray but rather the part where the stories differ in a significant way: Dorian really was once the beautiful young man who was still capable of love, but Voldemort is already born damaged, because of what his father did to his mother (or his mother did to his father, however you look at it). I think it's impossible for him to ever want to destroy his true representation because he's incapable of wanting 'back'. He never had a beautiful self to go back to.

Maybe he will get destroyed accidentally by one of his Horcruxes (Nagini?), though. Or he might destroy her accidentally and thus seal his fate, at a point when the Snake is his last Horcrux.

The French book in Dorian Gray is a reference to À rebours from Joris-Karl Huysmans, who was a champion of hedonism rather than downright evil. I think this points to our dear old Potions professor Horace Slughorn as a corrupting influence. He didn't provide the means, though, just additional information. The creator of the tool in Dorian Gray is a positive character: Basil, the painter. If that's another parallel, we have to look for an innocent source for Tom Riddle's Horcrux information, someone who maybe only had an intellectual interest in the process of Horcrux creation. Someone like Ollivander, for example.

This is a pretty good analogy, all in all. However, I think that JKR has taken a different path here in two ways, both of which reflect a fundamentally different concept of "soul." Dorian Gray's portrait is a variant on old Egyptian and other myths, where people would take their entire soul and hide it some place. His mind and sense of self is still intact. Dorian Gray puts a twist on the original sin myth: there, humans were immortal until they began sinning; here, sinning is associated with the deterioration of the soul, so removing the soul removes the effects of sin.

In Potterverse, the soul includes the mind, including intellect and emotion (as well as magical powers for those that have it). If a Dementor removes the soul from a person, then they are mindless and witless. So, only a piece of a soul can be removed: moreover, damage to the soul results in direct damage to the Horcrux maker (here, Voldemort). Moreover, there is no indication that Voldemort's change represents "murder" per se: on one hand, it cannot represent anything else, for murder alone and no other "sin" can be used; and there does not seem to be any specific damage that we can associate with killing particular people; on the other hand, murder might tear a soul, but unless one actually severs the tear from the rest of the soul, it does not have effects: none of the DE's, for example, show any sort of deterioration from all of their murders.

However, there is a pattern that still i consistent with classical mythologies. As Voldemort damages more and more of his soul, he becomes more and more like an animal. Indeed, he becomes more and more like a particular animal with whom he has great affinity: a snake. Well, OK, he really is becoming like any squamate reptile, but the allusion is consistent with the mythologies that give rise to major modern religions: what separates people from other animals is that we have souls and they do not. So, as Voldemort damages his soul, he becomes more and more like an animal. Moreover, individuals in Potterverse seem to have magical affinities with particular animals (as shown by patronuses and animagi): so, it is unsurprising that the animal into which Voldemort is changing is a snake.

Of course, there are other major differences. It has been years since I have read Dorian Gray, but I remember Dorian himself being the protagonist, with the good guys (e.g., Hallward) effectively being antagonists. We get things from Dorian's perspective. In Harry Potter, Voldemort is the antagonist: we see him only when he interacts in some way with Harry. This limits the way that JKR can use him: "redemption" really is not an alternative because it calls for dynamic development, and Voldemort is not written in such a way that we could see dynamic development.



Finally, and this really is a side note, but the timing on Grindelwald is perfect for him teaching Voldemort the spell. Voldemort learned that Horcruxes were real and that there was a spell that could allow him to make one (or more) in 1944. He was 17 at that time, so he could freely apparate that summer. Grindelwald is not run to ground until 1945.

Moreover, we also know that Voldemort learned how to make Horcruxes prior to leaving Borgin & Burke's. Voldemort 's occassionally flashing red eyes (which even Hepzibah Smith noticed, although she could not possibly understand the cause) suggest that he has turned the Ring into a Horcrux by that time. The fact that the Ring no longer was being worn corroborates this. Also, we must remember that Horcruxes are very esoteric and arcane knowledge. There is no indication that Borgin & Burkes reposits such rare knowledge: they seem to collect things rather than ideas, and there is no indication that either B. was a particularly gifted wizard.


So, all in all, I think that this is an interesting analogy to draw, but I think that JKR took a right where Wilde took a left very early in their development of these ideas.

lord voldemort as dorian gray...interesting. now i'll reread dorian's story again so i can comment...see ya

I have read Dorian Gray, but as I believe that paralleles are not all that helpful in predictions, I will skip this part and only say that the parallel was nicely written.

I wanted to comment on the editorial for a totally different reason: the Diary. Tom has encapsulated his 16 year-old self there and we know that around that time he had committed four murders in a row: his grantparents, his father, and his uncle. I would assume that since in the Diary we clearly see that a 16 year-old Tom is preserved, the Diary was made a Horcrux around that time. At that time he was not working at Burkin's and Burke's. Therefore, I do not believe that he could have picked up from his work at that store everything he needed to learn how to create a Horcrux. Moreover, I also wonder how he could have had contact with Grindelwald around that time (given also the fact that Grindelwald was chased by Dumbledore).

This is one of the things that make JKR such an interesting writer.

She has used parallels, similarities, and often vague pieces of other works of literature in her writing.

I'm sure if you looked you could find a little bit of everything in the Harry Potter series

Thanks,
Smiley

That was a BTE
Bloody Terrific Editorial

Brilliant. Aboslutely Brilliant. It's been a while since I read Dorian Grey, so the parallels would never have occured to me, but when pointed out I can certainly see them, and given JKR's knowledge of literature and mythology they are certainly not coincidental. I'm not sure what this means for Deathly Hallows, but your editorial certainly made me think.

I read The Picture of Dorian Gray two years ago when my dad bought it. He handed it to me and told me about Oscar Wilde, the brilliant playwright and author of what soon became a classic novel. That was enough to make me read it. I loved it and never gave the book back to my dad. I remember talking to him about it afterwards about how the portrait reminded me of Tom Riddle's diary but after that initial reading, I never thought about the similiarites again.
Thanks a ton for reminding me of the parallels between the two books. I probably would've never remembered them unless a really good Mugglenet editorial wasn't written about it.

I do believe that you are my hero, for writing an editorial about my two favourite books/series of all time.

I like the parallels you've drawn between Voldemort and Dorian, though I imagine Dorian had a less... unfortunate start than Voldemort. Nevertheless, it will be interesting to see if there actually was a Lord Henry-esque mentor, and if Voldemort's demise is anything similar to Dorian's.

Excellent work. :love:

Unfortunately, I have not read Dorian Gray. However, from the descriptions given in the editorial, I must say that there do seem to be several similarities. Now I may read the book just to see if the correlations are true.

I'd also like a complete list of every book J.K.R. has ever read. Over the last year or so I've noticed on the forum that many other works have been sighted by fans who have claimed that J.K.R. MUST have read those books. It be interesting to see the books on paper and go through them sighting similarities.

great editorial! i just read that book a couple months ago and didnt even think of its parallels to harry potter! the ending though doesn't really make it work out so great because Dorian was still able to realize his faults and attempt to redeem them, something Voledmort definitely will not do but you might be onto something with Snape. i'm beginning to wonder who the real big villian is, if it may truly be Snape and not Voldemort, wouldnt that be really interesting? but excellent job, loved the soul-in-object(s) connection and dumbledore-basil murders particularly.

I think that this is a very interesting editorial! LIke most people i have not read dorian grey - but i now want to!In the editorial the purpose of the parallels was to have more insight into how jkr may end the harry potter series, and as several people have already mentioned it is very unlikley that Voldermort will suddenly have an attack of conscience and destroy all his horcruxes so i guess we must try and find other possibilities. One that occurred to me was the use of an unbreakable vow; could voldermort have made one with someone and somehow he doesn't fulfill the vow and therefore dies by his own hand? Or would the vilain taking his own life (intentioanlly or not) be a bit of an anti-climax to such a long series of novels? What if, like the editorial suggests at times that its Snape who is DOrain (except for the trapping of his soul part) and that he has done some terrible things, but that voldermort is the imagery of these deeds (especially as they have been done in his name when Snape was a death eater). Maybe Snape has another unbreakable vow and he chooses to break it - maybe by destroying the horcruxes - as he no longer wishes to be the person that he has become? Could voldermort actually be Snapes mentor the same way lord henry was Dorians?

I think Voldemort is too selfish to make an unbreakable vow with anyone. After all he's all about him and him only and doesn't care enough about anyone to make a pact like that. Snape however does obviously care enough about some people and could possibly make another UV with someone.

That was a BTE
Bloody Terrific Editorial

My sentiments exactly. I'm not too keen on the last paragraph and its predictions, and it's too bad about the "PROVIDE LINK" snafu, but otherwise this is a wonderful piece: the rare combination of in-depth literary analysis and an entertaining writing style that really made this "BTE" fun to read!

I have read dorrian gray in school but I've never made the connection. its good though

I don't think Dorian's end will be reflected by Voldemort. As someone stated before, Voldemort was tainted even before birth. As a child he was already cruel and deceptive. He never was beautiful and innocent. The possibility that he will repent and try to make good on his actions is about as remote as Neville really being "The Chosen One". (Which, by the way, is impossible.)

What we should keep in mind, however, is that Harry, Snape and Voldemort are in certain ways all the same person. The main theme of the series is about choice and these three characters represent that. They each started out in very similar circumstances and each walked different paths based on their choices. So Harry and Voldemort are simultaneously the same person and polar opposites because their choices took them in two different directions. Snape is much closer still to Voldemort. Snape was probably innocent (though probably not beautiful, except to his mother) as a child and was later (through unknown circumstances) drawn to the "dark side". In many ways Snape is a version of Voldemort, but unlike Voldemort he is capable of feeling guilt and remorse (according to Dumbldore's witness).

In Dorian's realization of the path he is treading and his futile attempts at his restoration, I see a parallel to Snape. One could equate Snape's betrayal of Voldemort in joining the order and spying for Dumbledore as attempts to restore himself. However, in the end those attempts prove futile as Snape is forced to kill the man who was facilitating his redemption. Dorian felt that he should confess, but couldn't bring himself to do so. In Snape's case, perhaps he will also feel the need to confess and be absolved. There's only one person now who can do that for him: Harry. I think that Snape will make that step, unlike Dorian. If this parallel is accurate, I predict that Harry and Snape will have a confrontation and that Snape will finally apologize to Harry for his part in Harry's tragic history. Harry will have to forgive him and thus Snape's redemptive pattern will have been played out.

Excellent editorial. I have believed for some time now that Voldemort learned some things from Grindewald, especially the spell to make a horcrux since Slughorn didn't know. I also agree with the parallel to Snape. I have been switching my theories back and forth on Snape's loyalty. But I want him to be on the good side but I haven't been convinced either way yet. This editorial gave me reason to lean towards the Snape is on the right side and will play a part in Deathly Hallows. I can totally imagine Snape trying to redeem himself and maybe sacrificing himself for the good side. All of these editorials in the wait for Deathly Hallows are making my head spin. I just want all the answers ASAP!

Someone said earlier that Voldemort was never beautiful and innocent but he a was a good looking young man while at Hogwarts. I think he started changing slowly after he got involved with all this horcrux stuff. The making of horcruxes had the same effect as the picture did in Dorian Gray.

Excellent article! :tu:
The parallels are really interesting, and certainly provide a lot of fodder for speculation. Will Voldemort meet a similar fate as Dorian? Personally, I think no and yes. He certainly won't die while repenting his sins, but he probably will die while trying to destroy what is, unknown to him, one of the repositories of his soul - namely, Harry (yes, I firmly believe that Harry is a horcrux).

Just a small nit-pick: Voldemort didn't learn how to make horcruxes at Borgin and Burke's - at least, not while he was working there. He already knew how to do so while he was still at school - he created the diary horcrux when he was only 16.

wow! now I wanna read Dorian Gray, sounds like an interesting book! creepy, though

Someone said earlier that Voldemort was never beautiful and innocent but he a was a good looking young man while at Hogwarts. I think he started changing slowly after he got involved with all this horcrux stuff. The making of horcruxes had the same effect as the picture did in Dorian Gray.

I don't know if you were referring to me. I did say that. Riddle was certainly a good looking person, but what I meant was that he wasn't beautiful and innocent in the way Dorian was. Dorian was truly angelic. Part of his beauty was his innocent and pure nature. Riddle never had that. The earliest we see him is 11 years old, but already he is cruel and cunning and that sort of thing does effect the way you look.

I would assume that since in the Diary we clearly see that a 16 year-old Tom is preserved, the Diary was made a Horcrux around that time. At that time he was not working at Burkin's and Burke's. Therefore, I do not believe that he could have picked up from his work at that store everything he needed to learn how to create a Horcrux.

There is no reason to think that the Diary was not first a diary, and then later a Horcrux. Indeed, there is considerable reason to think that this must be the case. If Riddle made the diary at the age of 16, then he made it before he asked Sluggy about Horcruxes: and thus well before he knew how to make them. (Recall that Voldemort asks 3 times how Horcruxes are made, and almost causes Slughorn to halt the conversation, and that Harry could tell that Voldemort dearly wanted this information.)

Dumbledore also explains that Voldemort would have placed his diary on par with Hogwart's Founder's relics because, well, he was Voldemort and the Diary showed the link between Voldemort and the founding four. Dumbledore thought that Voldemort got this idea after stealing the locket and the cup, which (presumably) was well after Voldemort wrote the diary. (I am assuming that Voldemort wrote during or after his 5th year, when he was still 16; of course, he might have written it much later than that.) Had Dumbledore thought that Voldemort turned the Diary into a Horcrux prior to the "Hogwarts' Founders' Relics" idea, then he simply should have told Harry that he already had turned the Diary into a Horcrux, not why Voldemort was willing to "elevate" the Diary in status.


Moreover, I also wonder how he could have had contact with Grindelwald around that time (given also the fact that Grindelwald was chased by Dumbledore).

Voldemort could have apparated to wherever Grindelwald was in the summer of 1944: Voldemort was a legal adult then and could use magic at his leisure. Grindelwald was not defeated by Dumbledore until 1945. There is no reason to think that Dumbledore was hunting Grindelwald for any extended period of time prior to that.


Again, the problem with the B&B model is that there is just no reason to think that such knowledge could be found there. Horcruxes clearly are very rare, very esoteric knowledge: it seems that most wizards would not even recognize the word, nevermind the concept behind it.


One other major difference between Horcruxes and Dorian Gray's painting should be noted. There is zero indication that a Horcrux does anything for the body. Voldemort's body would eventually grow old and he would need a new one. Now, because his soul was earthbound, he presumably could make arrangements for this (although it's a slight idiot plot that he had not yet done so!). However, it is not like the physical hurts and aging was pushed somewhere else.

Sorry Harry Lives on looking back over the posts it seems I was referring to your idea. We must remember that Tom Riddle was able to fool most of the teachers including the headmaster (but not Albus - he had his suspicions by then) of that time as he was made head boy wasn't he. I suspect he could be very charming when he wanted to.

There is no reason to think that the Diary was not first a diary, and then later a Horcrux.

Actually, there is. We learn in POA that the soul contains a person's memory, intellect, personality, will, etc. Harry actually encounters Voldemort's real soul in COS. As Dumbledore says in HBP a mere memory should not be able to think and act for itsself. Yet this part of Voldemort's soul contains no memory of any later experiences as it should have if it was inserted later. It only has memories through the moment the Diary was made. This indicates that it was made a Horcrux then, not later.

If Riddle made the diary at the age of 16, then he made it before he asked Sluggy about Horcruxes: and thus well before he knew how to make them. (Recall that Voldemort asks 3 times how Horcruxes are made, and almost causes Slughorn to halt the conversation, and that Harry could tell that Voldemort dearly wanted this information.)

Exactly. But just because Voldemort had already made a Horcrux doesn't mean he knew how to. My own theory being that he did it accidentally. (It must have been powerful magic he was using to make the Diary and not usual fare for a 6th year.) In the end, I think Voldemort figured out Horcruxes for himself. He certainly was brilliant enough by Dumbledore's testimony.

Dumbledore thought that Voldemort got this idea after stealing the locket and the cup, which (presumably) was well after Voldemort wrote the diary. (I am assuming that Voldemort wrote during or after his 5th year, when he was still 16; of course, he might have written it much later than that.) Had Dumbledore thought that Voldemort turned the Diary into a Horcrux prior to the "Hogwarts' Founders' Relics" idea, then he simply should have told Harry that he already had turned the Diary into a Horcrux, not why Voldemort was willing to "elevate" the Diary in status.

I don't recall Dumbledore saying it that way. A quick look in the Horcruxes chapter of HBP doesn't reveal any such quotation. Dumbledore says Voldemort chose his Horcruxes with care and that he favored objects with a "certain grandeur". The Diary was already important to Voldemort because it contained proof of his Heir of Slytherin status and because it recorded the magical history of the most important wizard in the world (to him), himself. He does not say the Diary was "elevated" to anything. Of course, if my theory is correct and the Diary became a Horcrux accidentally, then all of this is moot.


Voldemort could have apparated to wherever Grindelwald was in the summer of 1944: Voldemort was a legal adult then and could use magic at his leisure.

Whatever gives you that idea? First of all, you cannot apparate somewhere unless you know where you are going. Voldemort couldn't just say to himself "I want to apparate to where ever Grindelwald is" and appear right in front of him. For Voldemort to be able to apparate to where Grindelwald is he would first have to know where Grindelwald was and also there would have to be no anti-apparition magic where he was. Remember that this was the great Dark Wizard of the time. He was bound to have taken precautions. Who knows how many wizarding governments were after him. If you could just apparate to where ever a Dark Wizard is, Voldemort (not to mention Bellatrix and the other DEs) would have been caught long ago.

The theory that Voldemort sought out Grindelwald and learned about Horcruxes from him assumes too many things:

1. That Grindelwald knew how to make Horcruxes.
2. That Voldemort knew where Grindelwald was.
3. That Voldemort was able to get to where Grindelwald was.
4. That Grindelwald was willing to share what knowledge he had with Voldemort.

If even one of these is not true the whole theory falls apart. And there is no indication that any of it is true.


Sorry Harry Lives on looking back over the posts it seems I was referring to your idea. We must remember that Tom Riddle was able to fool most of the teachers including the headmaster (but not Albus - he had his suspicions by then) of that time as he was made head boy wasn't he. I suspect he could be very charming when he wanted to.


Oh, I agree. Dumbledore himself attests to the fact that Riddle had all the other teachers charmed. My point was really about Riddle's lack of innocence and purity, not really about how he looks or how other people see him. Riddle was not a beautiful person, he merely looked it. He was a far different creature in his youth than Dorian was before he made his wish.

Whatever gives you that idea? First of all, you cannot apparate somewhere unless you know where you are going. Voldemort couldn't just say to himself "I want to apparate to where ever Grindelwald is" and appear right in front of him. For Voldemort to be able to apparate to where Grindelwald is he would first have to know where Grindelwald was and also there would have to be no anti-apparition magic where he was.

You are correct in a sense. One couldn't just say the name of whomever you wanted and apparate there. Quit true. However, we do know that it is possible to apparate towards people even when you don't know where they are. The Death Eaters feel the burn of the Dark Mark and apparate to wherever Voldemort is.

There are several questions that this arises. Voldemort said that everyone is still bound together by the dark mark. So perhaps the magic of the dark mark is how they are able to find Voldemort in the graveyard, since many of them probably didn't know where it was. (Please don't argue that the graveyard was the normal meeting place for the Death Eaters. Voldemort HATED that place and only went there because he needed his fathers bones) Yet, all we really know about the spell that created the dark mark is that those with the mark feel the burn. We don't know that it tells them anything other than they are being summonded. In addition, there maybe be other ways to detect an individual and apparate to them. Perhaps certain wizards can sense where others are. Perhaps Voldemort could sense where Grindawald was.

Actually, there is. We learn in POA that the soul contains a person's memory, intellect, personality, will, etc. Harry actually encounters Voldemort's real soul in COS. As Dumbledore says in HBP a mere memory should not be able to think and act for itsself. Yet this part of Voldemort's soul contains no memory of any later experiences as it should have if it was inserted later. It only has memories through the moment the Diary was made. This indicates that it was made a Horcrux then, not later.

No, it really does not. Suppose Voldemort put his memories into the Diary at age 16. We know that wizards can leave imprints of memories without leaving behind their soul (portraits, things like the Marauder's Map, etc.).

Later, Voldemort adds a fragment of soul. Now, yes, the soul is the repositories for memory, thought, etc.: however, he is leaving only some fragment in the diary. There is no indication that he really is deleting these things from his main soul. Thus, there is no reason to think that this soul fragment has the full repetoire of Voldemort's memories or powers. It is the soul fragment that brings the book to life.

Ultimately, if the Diary were always a Horcrux, the Dumbledore should have thought that this was the case. If that were true, then his answer to Harry would have been very different from what it was when Harry asked why the Diary deserved to be a Horcrux.


Exactly. But just because Voldemort had already made a Horcrux doesn't mean he knew how to. My own theory being that he did it accidentally. (It must have been powerful magic he was using to make the Diary and not usual fare for a 6th year.) In the end, I think Voldemort figured out Horcruxes for himself. He certainly was brilliant enough by Dumbledore's testimony.

This really does not quite work. If Voldemort is that brilliant, then he should be able to recreate his experiments. Voldemort seems to be both an applied and theoretic genius: as such, if he accidentally



I don't recall Dumbledore saying it that way..... Of course, if my theory is correct and the Diary became a Horcrux accidentally, then all of this is moot.

It is a question of what Dumbledore should and should not have said under different scenarios. If Dumbledore thought that the Diary was made before Voldemort hit upon the "Hogwarts Founders Relics" idea, then his answer to Harry's question is: "The Diary was made before Voldemort had this thought." If Dumbledore thought that the Diary was made after Voldemort hit upon the "Hogwarts Founcers Relics" idea, then his answer to Harry should be about why the Diary was worthy of being included with those relics. Dumbledore does the latter, not the former.

A quick look in the Horcruxes chapter of HBP doesn't reveal any such quotation.

I never quote! Quoting is a bad habit: one should always paraphrase what is said in order to show what one's understanding a statement is. I deliberately paraphrased what Dumbledore said. (I will add that I did not do this to fit any hypothesis: rather, I am evaluating the hypotheses based on how well they predict my understanding of the observations.


Whatever gives you that idea? First of all, you cannot apparate somewhere unless you know where you are going. Voldemort couldn't just say to himself "I want to apparate to where ever Grindelwald is" and appear right in front of him.

True (probably). But wizards have numerous ways of communicating with each other. Given Voldemort's connections to wizards who used Dark Magic, it would not have been that difficult to find a way to communicate to Grindelwald that he, Voldemort, was interested in meeting him. Grindelwald himself could easily have heard through intermediaries about what a promising young wizard Voldemort was: and Voldemort's interest in the dark arts. (It is sort of like prospective graduate students looking for prospective thesis advisors: and vice versa!)


The theory that Voldemort sought out Grindelwald and learned about Horcruxes from him assumes too many things:

1. That Grindelwald knew how to make Horcruxes.
2. That Voldemort knew where Grindelwald was.
3. That Voldemort was able to get to where Grindelwald was.
4. That Grindelwald was willing to share what knowledge he had with Voldemort.

If even one of these is not true the whole theory falls apart. And there is no indication that any of it is true.

First, it is a hypothesis, not a theory. The word "theory" is badly misused: it really means an accepted truth! A hypothesis is an idea that we judge based on how well it predicts the facts.

Second, yes, it does depend on all these things being true. However, none of them are absurd. Grindelwald is (insofar as we know) the foremost dark wizard of the time. Therefore, his is the individual who has the single highest probability of knowing how Horcruxes are made. All other suggested sources should be considered less probable.

There is no reason to think that Grindelwald could not be found: the Malfoys, for example, do not seem to be that tough to find, and anyone in the wizarding world like Voldemort would know that they are practicioners of dark magic. We should not think of these guys as being Dark Lords alone in some tower. Voldemort himself seems to be unusual in terms of just how secretive he is.

We know that Voldemort can get places: he can apparate. He just needs to know where to go, and he almost certainly had the connections to learn that: the young Death Eaters' families would be quite handy, there. People knew about Grindelwald, after all, and he, no doubt, had connections within the wizarding world.

Finally, yes, Grindelwald would have to be willing to teach the spell. But, obviously, somebody has to be: otherwise, nobody would know that there was such a spell! Regardless, we see that Voldemort teaches his followers about the Dark Arts. I doubt that Voldemort would teach anybody about a Horcrux: he would not want any of them to get the idea that he knew anything about them. However, Voldemort seems to be unusual even for a Dark Wizard: whereas the other Dark Wizards are loyal to creed and class, Voldemort is loyal only to himself. We should not assume that Grindelwald was like Voldemort in terms of selfishness and inability to care about others or causes other than his own welfare.


Ultimately, your argument relies on using absence of evidence as evidence of absence: however, that never is an appropriate way to judge an idea. Moreover, there are simple and easy explanations within established Potterverse for how this could work. (I am a strong advocate of thinking deductively: never look for evidence supporting an idea, but look for the evidence contradicting it; once you eliminate the contradicted, the the truth should be in the remaining set of ideas; rinse and repeat as you add more data!)



This is all getting wayyyyyy of track from potential parallels between Dorian Gray and Voldemort!

Great editorial !:tu:

The parallel between the evolution of Voldemort’s face and Dorian Gray’s portrait as an indicator of how much they damaged their souls through evil was quite obvious, but the others parallels are quite intriguing (starting with them both placing their souls or pieces of them in objects in order to ensure a kind of eternity).


The novel begins with an artist named Basil painting his portrait as Lord Henry Wotton teaches him of the new aesthetic, in which the only way to rid yourself of temptation is to give into it.
[…]
Dorian learns his debauchery from two sources: the French book and Lord Henry. We still don't know from where young Tom Riddle learned how to create a Horcrux, but the fact that we don't know is significant. Lady Lupin PROVIDE LINK suggests that it may be Grindelwald

As many have already said, Grindelwald is a very likely candidate for Voldemort’s mentor. But if we look for a parallel with Lord Henry, I think the hedonism and debauchery would likely point more to Horace Slughorn. We know Slughorn is an epicurean and we already know that he was Voldemort’s head of house, most likely his favourite professor, a mentor of kinds, and the one man he turns to for advices when he starts to plan making several horcruxes. (I won’t enter the debate on whether he really wanted to learn how to make a horcrux or already knew it and only wanted to learn about the possibility of making several there; that’s not the right tread and the point here is he wanted to learn some information in relation to horcruxes from Slughorn).
We can also argue that there’s no need for an exact parallelism, so maybe it was Slughorn and Grindelwald in the same time who were Voldemort’s mentors: inspire from the bests but have no true link with any would be very like Voldemort. Or maybe Voldy found an old book of Grindelwald’s with tips in it, much like Harry found the HBP’s Potion book?
Finally, Dorian's end. […]
He understands how shallow and self-serving his attempt at redemption are, and debates absolving himself in confession but is to cowardly to face any consequences, and so chooses instead to destroy the portrait. When he stabs at it, however, the nursemaids downstairs hear a scream and rush up to the attic to find a decrepit and sickening old man dead on the floor with a knife through his chest, and a picture of their master as beautiful and pure as they'd ever know him.
I wonder if this could have something to do with the reason why, as Riddle says himself in CoS, Harry looks physically like young Tom Riddle did before he started murdering people. We already know they have no blood link, so it’s probably to enhance yet again the parallel between Harry and Voldy. There is a kind of inverted mirror between the two of them, as there is between Dorian Gray and his portrait.
Could this mean that Voldemort will kill himself by attempting to kill Harry, the image of the young man he could have been had he made different choices?
If Dumbledore thought that the Diary was made before Voldemort hit upon the "Hogwarts Founders Relics" idea, then his answer to Harry's question is: "The Diary was made before Voldemort had this thought." If Dumbledore thought that the Diary was made after Voldemort hit upon the "Hogwarts Founcers Relics" idea, then his answer to Harry should be about why the Diary was worthy of being included with those relics. Dumbledore does the latter, not the former.
I think you forgot something in your argument. Dumbledore in not only giving Harry useful informations during those private lessons, he also tries to have him process a number of things by himself so that he would be able to make a good use of that knowledge later on. Notably, he wants Harry to understand Voldemort’s functioning, his magpie-tendencies. Just saying "The Diary was made before Voldemort had this thought" would not make sense in that regards. That would suggest Voldemort could have used just anything as a horcrux before getting his hand on the Founders relics, which is wrong. Voldemort would only have used certain kind of things, those which are worthy in his opinion, and it’s far more constructive to explain how the Diary fits those criteria regardless of when it had been made a horcrux than to say “but yes he probably choose this one by default because he didn’t have any relic of some ancient great wizard at hand at the time”.

For reference, the exact quote is (I do like quotes) :

“His pride, his belief in his own superiority, his determination to carve himself a startling place in magical history; these things suggest to me that Voldemort would have chosen his Horcruxes with some care, favouring objects worthy of the honour’
‘The diary wasn’t that special.’
‘The diary, as you have said yourself, was proof that he was the heir of Slytherin; I am sure that Voldemort considered it of stupendous importance.’”(HBP, Horcruxes)

What is more, there is also this quote you might want to take in account before saying Dumbledore thought the Diary to be made a horcrux only after Voldy started consider the relics of the Founders (bold, my emphasis):

“But you don’t see, Harry, that if he intended the diary to be passed to, or planted on, some future Hogwarts student, he was remarkably blasé about that precious fragment of his soul concealed within it. […]
‘The careless way in which Voldemort regarded this Horcrux see med most ominous to me. It suggested that he must have made – or been planning to make – more Horcruxes, so that the loss of his first would not be so detrimental. I did not wish to believe it, but nothing else seemed to make sense.” (HBP, Horcruxes).

This seems to suggest that Dumbledore thinks the diary was the first horcrux but prefers not to be too affirmative because he is not entirely certain of it (probably because Voldemort stole the ring around the same time he made the not-yet-horcrux diary).

This is a very good editorial. I have also enjoyed reading the discussion that it generated. I believe that the comparison with Dorian Gray and Voldemort is limited to the fact that both of them show the effects of their evil acts, Dorian on his portrait and Voldemort in his snake-face. Dorian came to a realization that he had been wrong to do what he did. I don't think that Voldemort will have that kind of an epiphany.

This editorial has prompted me to take the book out from the library to read the story.

Wow. Thanks for all the compliments, guys. I wrote this months ago and then, while scanning through the editorials the other day, saw the title and forgot that it was mine, so I didn't look it over again until today.

A few things to add:

One, I truly believe that Snape is good, and all the things that go with that on the lightning-struck tower. However, there's an element to Snape's character that keeps hoping that one more action might redeem him, which is what I meant by desperate and self-serving.

Secondly, onto the B&B theory, I don't think that Riddle knew yet how to create Horcruxes while still in school. I believe he deposited his memories into the diary, as we know to be possible by any number of magical devices, and then later placed a piece of his soul. I don't know if it's the combination of his soul and his memories being kept in the same place that created the effect in CoS, but I'd guess it is. When Riddle has his conversation with Slughorn, and this is just my reading, I think there were three real questions at stake. 1.) What are Horcruxes? 2.) How are they made? 3.) Would a wizard be at his most powerful state of immortality to split his soul into seven pieces?

I think - nay, I'm sure - that Riddle already knew the answer to question 1 when he breached the conversation. I also think he knew that, no matter how clever a liar he was, he wouldn't convince Slughorn to teach him the answer to question 2. That conversation was just for Riddle to affirm his suspicions about question 3, which he did, more or less. As people have mentioned, he could have worked at a much better shop than Borgin and Burkes and had access to people's homes and goods without tarnishing his reputation s much, but he chose B&B. I think he did it because he knew that the subject of Horcruxes wouldn't seem quite so unspeakable there, that maybe they were selling some things claimed to have been former horcruxes of great dark wizards, and that with enough prodding he could find the answer to question 2 there somewhere.

Also, yeah, it was a pawnbroker in Crime and Punishment. I don't know what I was thinking.

Thanks again guys!

-Dawson

this has been a brilliant essay, it was a pleasure to read it. though I do not believe that the similarities that you've pointed out so excellently are giving any clues about the outcome of HP, it was nonetheless enlightning to read!

I read the book a while ago and was simply stunned by the similarities.

Yet, it's necessary to point out the differences (as you already have done), or some overzealous person will turn the whole issue into a conspiration theory. ("JKR stole all her ideas from British classics!")

By the way: Several people here wondered whether the last scene in The Picture of Dorian Gray could be a hint for Voldemorts final fate.
However, I claim this has already happend: The Avada Kedavra that backfired.

I read that book just a few weeks ago to see how much the story of Dorian Grey was like the story of Voldemort. Actually, outside of the changing appearance, it wasn't really similiar.

Dorian Grey wished he could always remain as handsome as he was when the portrait was painted. He didn't want the effects of aging and living a life of debauchery to show on his face. So, somehow that was unexplained, his portait showed the effects of the horrible life he led. Dorian was able to fool people into thinking he was the same pure person he had always been because he still looked good. He even got away with a murder because he looked too young to be the one who someone said killed a man.

In the meantime, the portrait aged. It became a constant reminder to Dorian of how he was mutilating his soul by his life of drugs, and other sins. This idea of the mutilating of the soul reflecting in the face is the comparison that I see between Dorian Grey and Voldemort.

The big difference is that Voldemort is not trying to fool anyone. He has turned evil and everyone knows it. And he wants them to know it too. Dorian wanted it hidden from society.

Dorian ended up hating what he had become. He went to destroy the painting and that resulted in his own death. He basically killed himself. The painting turned back into the original painting of a beautiful young man, while the face of the body lying on the floor was that of a aged and disipated older man. The only way that the servants knew that it was Dorian was by the rings and clothing he wore.

Voldemort would never regret the life he was leading. He would never try to kill himself.

Excellent editorial.

Dorian remains young and handsome while his picture grows increasingly old and hideous to reflect his crimes. When Dorian is finally disgusted with himself, he stabs the portrait. Instantly he grows old and hideous and the portrait again depicts a young and handsome man.

Voldemort grows increasingly inhuman and snake-like with each soul splitting murder, while the Tom Riddle in the book-horcrux remains a handsome 16 year old boy, who looks something like Harry Potter. When Harry stabs the book it is destroyed, along with its 16 year old Tom Riddle, but Voldemort seems to be physically unaffected.

Dumbledore tells Harry that when Voldemort learned of the book-horcrux's destruction, his anger was terrible to behold. Perhaps Voldy, who wants to live forever, also wanted to preserve forever the image of handsome 16 year old Tom Riddle. Perhaps.