Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5 [Archive] - Page 2

hbprincess_01

February 23rd, 2007, 11:18 am

yes yes! harry will die! i have a theory.

theory:
harry will die sving ginny. voldie, looks for the last time at harry's eyes, and is reminded of lily, and what she had done to save her son. this is his last chance for redemption, but he still chooses to kill harry. so he finally kills harry. harry dies, leaving ginny with a protection similar to what lily left for harry. then voldie turns to kill ginny and then his wand backfires.

i think it is rather interesting since it mirrors harry's strenght and voldie's weakness - love. cnat imagine harry killing (even voldie), but can imagine him loving. perhaps that is why dumbledore did not even teach harry the killing curse in the first place. knew he wouldnt stand a chance. but if harry uses love, then he would stand a tough chance against voldie. cant imagine voldie loving, but can easily imagine him killing.

however, i realized there was a flaw in my theory.
1. you need to be a blood relative so that you can give protection
2. voldie should never have intended to kill harry in the first place

i think voldie will become aware that harry is the sixth horcrux. maybe also, there will be a prophecy that if voldie wins harry over, he will become more powerful than ever. but if voldie does not win him over, he will be defeated.

so voldie will not want to kill harry, and he will try to win him over. but harry does not want, and refuses to hand over the one whom he is trying to protect (whom i first thought was ginny, but if you had to be blood relatives, perhaps, dudley or petunia? maybe they will patch up in the 7th book). and so voldie gets mad and kills harry, forgetting that he destroyed his last horcrux before his body. and harry died protecting the one he loved, because he refused to stand aside. and so he leaves dudley or petunia with a protection. then voldie kills that person, and his wand backfires. poof! dead ball!

so both voldie and harry die. but harry dies a hero. voldie dies, and he cant come back as a ghost because while ghosts have whole souls, voldie has a seventh of a soul.

a_countrypande

February 24th, 2007, 6:07 am

I don't think Harry will die.I agree that Ginny gives him hope and purpose to live after he has accomplished his mission to kill LV.But its not only Ginny.In fact its ron and hermione who will give him a purpose along with ginny.
I don't htink JKR needs to kill Harry to close the series for other authors.The series and the characters are hers forever.

NORMO

February 24th, 2007, 11:53 am

I really hope Harry won't die:td: but I'm 99,999999 % sure that if he does he won't go solo :evil:

Niveus_Leo

February 24th, 2007, 4:47 pm

I'm not sure if I would like him to die. I mean, that is one way to end the series properly but then...what if JK let him live and twisted the end in some way?

FOREVERPOTTER

February 25th, 2007, 11:42 am

Perhaps, in order to kill Voldemort, Harry must also die. And perhaps it is JKR's favorite book because Harry's death is as it should be.

YES YES YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I completely agree with you!!!!

sweet16

February 25th, 2007, 11:46 am

My idea is that harry will sustain an injury that nothing can cure, not even fawkes, but before he dies a hero's death, he will kill voldemort and perhaps some of his followers. Then after everyone knows that it's a victory for the world, he will die in ginny's arms

or something like that!!

xhanax315

February 25th, 2007, 4:34 pm

I dont think he'll die. In the words of Trelawney, he'll live to an old age and have lots of children. :)

Arya4ever

February 25th, 2007, 4:43 pm

That would be really horrible if he died in the last book but there was a quote somewhere from JKR saying how she can understand how some authors kill off the main character in the end of a series so that when they're dead and gone no other author can come and continue the series...but then I've read quite a few time that its been heavily implied that he's not going to die...I really just don't know. I hope he doesn't die!

sweet16

February 25th, 2007, 4:57 pm

yeah, i think that we all don't want him to die, but that might be part of a plot twist. He could die after the 'final fight', but he might live on.

magicalmysteryg

February 25th, 2007, 6:57 pm

I really don't think after all Harry has been through that JKR will top it off with his death.
P.S. I am going to have to put a rubber band around the back of the book so I don't look.

i agree and FANTASTIC IDEA!!!i should do that with my book.

he lives. "the boy who LIVES"!!! perfect foreshadowing, that the first chapter be called that.

dubbleB

February 25th, 2007, 10:08 pm

of caurse he won't die because that will mean Voldemort will live and Rowling will never allow that to happen
neither can live while the other survives

BlackFenix

February 26th, 2007, 10:19 am

I was re-reading PoA again and realised that in Diviniation Trelewney(sp?) keeps forshadowing Harry's death.

Could it be possible that her predictions of Harry's death could actually be true but instead of dieing in PoA Harry will die in DH.

She has gotten a few important things right in the past!

dubbleB

February 26th, 2007, 11:08 am

Trelawney is never right except when she makes a prediction whitout her knowing what she said,when she goes in a sort of trance and speeks with that odd voice

remusfan

February 26th, 2007, 9:55 pm

sparkly

February 26th, 2007, 10:47 pm

I know that I'm in the minority, but again, I believe that Harry will sacrifice himself to kill Voldemort. Who says that Harry dying still can't make for a happy ending? What I really want to see is Harry being reunited with his parents, Sirius, and Dumbledore. It could be a very inspirational ending. Even though Jo said that the last word will probably be scar, I would love to see a repeat of the tribute,

To Harry Potter, the boy who lived, past tense. The book won't achieve enough emotional value for me if Harry survives. In some ways, it would ruin the most amazing literary work of its time by creating a shallow ending where Harry and Ginny get married and have many children. Even if your view is completely different than mine, will you just think about it in this way for a while? Please?

As a final thought, we are forgetting Dumbledore when he so rightfully says, "death is but the next great adventure."

But Harry said in book six that Sirius would want him to live his life and not brood over losing him, and Dumbledore praised Harry when he said that. Dumbledore was not talking about Harry but himself when he said death was the next great adventure. JKR has clearly indicated that Harry has moved past mourning the death of his parents and Sirius, and there's no indication that he wants to rejoin them. In fact, JKR has written Harry so he's got more reason to live than to die. He's building a relationship with Ginny and looking forward to a future without Voldermort. Harry won't be killing Voldermort merely to avenge his parents and Sirius but to eliminate him from the world that Harry wants to live in.

Dumbledore and Harry weren't really that close for Harry to mourn him in the same way he would his parents or his godfather. Harry regarded Dumbledore as a mentor, but not as a parent. Of course he will be saddened by his death, but Harry will never miss Dumbledore so much he would want to die in order to be reunited with him.

I'm sorry you've already closed your mind to an ending other than what you described. I can see many ways the book can end well with Harry, Ginny, Ron and Hermione still alive. Death would be the easy way out for JKR, IMO, because then the characters have no responsibility for the world that remains after Voldermort is gone. The wizarding world will need a lot of rebuilding and they will need strong wizards and witches to do that.

LikeLuna

February 26th, 2007, 10:59 pm

The book won't achieve enough emotional value for me if Harry survives. In some ways, it would ruin the most amazing literary work of its time by creating a shallow ending where Harry and Ginny get married and have many children.

How would this be a shallow ending? Harry is willing to give up his own life for the lives of those he loves - to me, whether or not he has to do it is not significant.

remusfan

February 26th, 2007, 11:05 pm

How would this be a shallow ending? Harry is willing to give up his own life for the lives of those he loves - to me, whether or not he has to do it is not significant.
I'm just saying that it wouldn't be very original, and not as emotionally powerful, either. But these are only my opinions. Please stop attacking me! I'm very alone in these views, and I'm merely stating them! :sigh:

BlackFenix

February 27th, 2007, 12:18 am

Trelawney is never right except when she makes a prediction whitout her knowing what she said,when she goes in a sort of trance and speeks with that odd voice

Further on in PoA at the christmas lunch when she arrives late and at first refused saying that the 1st to stand woul die We are not told who gets up fist, it could have easily been Dumbledore. -PoA 170 uk

sparkly

February 27th, 2007, 12:31 am

I'm just saying that it wouldn't be very original, and not as emotionally powerful, either. But these are only my opinions. Please stop attacking me! I'm very alone in these views, and I'm merely stating them! :sigh:

No one's attacking you, they're just disagreeing. Many of us look for evidence in the books for what will happen regardless of their personal opinion. I find a lot of evidence in the books that Harry will live.

remusfan

February 27th, 2007, 12:47 am

No one's attacking you, they're just disagreeing. Many of us look for evidence in the books for what will happen regardless of their personal opinion. I find a lot of evidence in the books that Harry will live.
I don't really have any specific evidence as to why I think Harry will die in DH, but I don't think that this is one of those instances when that kind of evidence can be used. It's more from a literary standpoint than anything else.

I just want people to think more about my theories than to just look at the straight evidence and shoot it down right away. :)

magicalmysteryg

February 27th, 2007, 1:24 am

Further on in PoA at the christmas lunch when she arrives late and at first refused saying that the 1st to stand woul die We are not told who gets up fist, it could have easily been Dumbledore. -PoA 170 uk

actually, ron and harry get up at the same time!

Rictus

February 27th, 2007, 2:07 am

I think no one can know for sure, obviously. The evidence may be there, but what if she throws a curveball to defy all logic? It's her story, she can do what she likes.

dubbleB

February 27th, 2007, 1:04 pm

I think no one can know for sure, obviously. The evidence may be there, but what if she throws a curveball to defy all logic? It's her story, she can do what she likes.

that is indeed an option but Rowling is a very logical wrighter ,I ve never got the feeling while reading her books that things made a sudden curveball except with Snape and in a way I could see it comming after trelawney made her last prediction in book 6

dktkt

February 27th, 2007, 7:57 pm

of caurse he won't die because that will mean Voldemort will live and Rowling will never allow that to happen
neither can live while the other survives

:huh: Uhm.. doesn't this just mean that they both can't live, not that they both can't die. I.e., they can both be dead, but not both be alive.

I think Harry's going to die killing LV. E.g., Harry pulls LV through the curtain with him or something like that, so they die together.

Galinda

February 27th, 2007, 11:14 pm

It could happen. I just believe that Jo loves Harry too much to do it.

Rictus

February 28th, 2007, 12:50 am

It could happen. I just believe that Jo loves Harry too much to do it.

It is true, but honestly - she is a billionaire, people. Money talks but not for her, it seems. I honestly appreciate her and her amazing work.
At the end of the day, she has a family to raise.

Keeping Harry alive does three things:
1 ) Upsets me!
2 ) Means a bunch of rabid little fangirls/boys will never, ever stop complaining about how they want another book.
3 ) And finally, gives her a boring, cliche look to her books: blah blah, lucky magical kid lives and the bad guy dies, *yawn*; can we move onto better series?

If she kills him, it's the amazingly spectacular ending that people will remember FOREVER.
Believe me - as an avid writer, I know the amount of detail you can put into murdering a main character. Everyone feels sad and sure, you get hated for killing him, but Jo dear: isn't it time to enjoy your 6 [7? 8?] billion?

BurrowGhoul

February 28th, 2007, 1:20 am

:err:

I think any way she ends it will be amazing.

Rictus

February 28th, 2007, 1:28 am

:err:

I think any way she ends it will be amazing.

Not for me.
In 5 years, I would forget the ending.

RWeasleysgirl

February 28th, 2007, 2:19 am

Honestly, Harry’s death is not something I can imagine… If it happens, though, I’m sure it will be a great ending.

sparkly

February 28th, 2007, 4:13 am

It is true, but honestly - she is a billionaire, people. Money talks but not for her, it seems. I honestly appreciate her and her amazing work.
At the end of the day, she has a family to raise.

Keeping Harry alive does three things:
1 ) Upsets me!
2 ) Means a bunch of rabid little fangirls/boys will never, ever stop complaining about how they want another book.
3 ) And finally, gives her a boring, cliche look to her books: blah blah, lucky magical kid lives and the bad guy dies, *yawn*; can we move onto better series?

If she kills him, it's the amazingly spectacular ending that people will remember FOREVER.
Believe me - as an avid writer, I know the amount of detail you can put into murdering a main character. Everyone feels sad and sure, you get hated for killing him, but Jo dear: isn't it time to enjoy your 6 [7? 8?] billion?

As a writer you should know that it's more difficult to finish a book well on a happy note. It's easy to have a spectacular shocking ending, but that's not good writing, it's just surprising.

JKR outlined the entire series nearly fifteen years ago, several years before she even had a publisher. It's highly unlikely when she wrote the last chapter at that time (which she did do) thinking that she had to kill the hero just so that she wouldn't be bothered by requests for a sequel. If anything, she would yearn for that amount of attention.

Sasblack

February 28th, 2007, 1:42 pm

I think that Harry will die.

I feel it is his destinty and that by ending LV's life he will end his own, i think he will find this out in the course of destroying the horcruxes.

I think from the start there have been signs that he will be the tragic hero.

I know that it will make me bawl my eyes out if he does but in a way it would be all noble and heroic and I love a good tragedy!

dubbleB

February 28th, 2007, 1:53 pm

just ask yourself? how many childrens books are there where the hero dies? you must remeber that children of 10,11,12 must be able to enjoy it too
I think it will be dramatic enough to let jet another friend of Harry die .

:huh: Uhm.. doesn't this just mean that they both can't live, not that they both can't die. I.e., they can both be dead, but not both be alive.

I think Harry's going to die killing LV. E.g., Harry pulls LV through the curtain with him or something like that, so they die together.

again: neither can live while the other survives
lets get our handy dictionary
survive–verb (used without object) 1. to remain alive after the death of someone, the cessation of something, or the occurrence of some event; continue to live: Few survived after the holocaust.

Sasblack

February 28th, 2007, 2:23 pm

While I respect the opinion that many people have expressed that Harry Potter is a children’s book and as such it would be inappropriate to kill the main character I have to say that I do feel that any suggestion that Killing Harry would cause children to not enjoy the book is doing children everywhere a huge disservice.

JKR shows throughout the series that some things are worth dying for. Lily dies for Harry and we see loads of examples of members of the Order who are killed or who die fighting Voldemort. One of the great tragedies of war is that it claims the lives of good and noble people, innocents like Cedric Diggory, people who have no choice but to become involved as well as fighters like the members of the Order.

We teach children as young as eight about the second world war, a conflict which cost countless lives and children are able to recognise the sacrifice made by those who died and to understand why they chose to fight (and yes I know that not all 2nd world war soldiers chose to be involved hence my point about innocents and those with no choice)

JKR is a good enough writer so show as she has done already that death, while tragic and needless in many cases is part of life and she sensitively handles each case, I do not think that if she chooses to kill Harry that she will handle it in such a way as to leave people upset without understanding the reasons and heroism behind the death as she has done with so many others.

Let us also not forget that she deals with some very touchy subjects which many children’s writers would shy away from and that this is one of the reasons why an adult audience can also appreciate the books on so many levels and why the intense and deep debate we are able to enjoy is possible.

I do not think that we can rule out Harry’s death merely because this is a children’s book.

cybereality

February 28th, 2007, 3:01 pm

sparkly

February 28th, 2007, 4:00 pm

I believe Harry will in fact die. Even though people have sacrificed their lives just so Harry could live, doesn't mean they wouldn't want him to show that same nobility and courage, to save those he loves. This would be selfish on their part, to expect him to protect his own life above all other cares.

But that's not what the book says. Remus tells Harry that his parents sacrificed their lives so he can live. If he can find a way to defeat Voldermort and still survive, that's what they would want. Of course Harry is willing to die to destroy Voldermort, but the prophecy strongly indicates that one of the two will survive. It's not going to be Voldermort, so the survivor will be Harry.

I have read posts about Ginny being the completion in Harry's life, of how she is the key to a family and future for Harry after the battle. Harry has always been driven by courage, self-sacrifice, and some semblance of vengeance. I really can't see his character settling down with a family life, when there would still be evil in the world. Even with Voldemort gone, evil will still remain. I again would find it selfish on his part to just drop his defining characteristics to indulge in this kind of life, when there could potentially be others in the world suffering. If he chose to live out through both lives, marriage/family - noble crusading, wouldn't this in of itself also be selfish? He could not devote himself to one facet, without his other calling there in the background. It is selfish to put ones personal needs and desires above a greater good.

I don't see how Harry is selfish for living a normal life after Voldermort is gone, unless your envisioning him trying to alleviate other suffering in the world. However, there's been no indication in the books that Harry aspires to become some kind of Superman, unable to have a normal life because he's too busy fighting crime. Harry sees his family in the Mirror of Erised, not a world free of suffering, and there's been no indication in the books that Harry wants to become a type of caped crusader.

JKR has not written Harry as a superhero and it's highly doubtful he'll end up that way. Instead, she's repeatedly shown that Harry wants to be normal, that he dislikes the life he's been given, and he wants Voldermort gone because that's the one thing preventing him, Harry, from being normal. She's transitioned Harry from looking back to what he's lost to looking forward to what he can have, and I can't see her taking away his deepest desire so he can save the world.

The characteristics that define Harry, position him to perform a noble sacrifice for wizardkind. It would be his defining moment and bring the story full circle. "The Boy Who Lived" , and yes he did live, probably better than most, through his own sense of perserverance, courage and nobility.

I would be saddened if he actually did make it through alive, it would destroy the theme JKR has created.

I don't think that's a realistic perspective on the Harry that JKR has created, and I don't think she's developed sacrifice for the sake of wizardkind as a primary theme. Harry's parents died protecting their son because they loved him. Sirius died because he was reckless. We're not sure why Dumbledore died - there's a bunch of possible reasons, but he didn't die as a sacrifice.

JKR is developing the theme that love is the most powerful weapon that can be used against evil, and Harry dying doesn't advance that theme. He is the product of love, and he needs to use the love he feels for others and others feel for him to destroy Voldermort. If Harry were to die, the theme she's developing would be diminished.

EWells2188

February 28th, 2007, 4:14 pm

As is commonly known to every Harry Potter fan, one or more of the main characters is going to die in the seventh novel of the series, Harry Potter and the Deathly Hollows. There are many people who claim that Harry Potter and Lord Voldemort are the only two logical deaths that would occur in book seven, however, I only agree with half of this prediction. Lord Voldemort is sure to die and the reason I think this is because J.K. Rowling has followed the traditional themes of literature since the very first book. If J.K. Rowling is to continue following these traditional themes of literature, I think it is dafe to say that the vil villain has to die. The protagonist of the story cannot possibly perish. Another character that I think will die is Hagrid. Hagrid has been one of the main characters in the Harry Potter series since Sorcerer’s Stone and extremely essential to the storyline; therefore, I think that Hagrid will most likely die while aiding the Order of the Phoenix. I think that another character that will die, though less essential, will be Lupin. He was Sirius’ and James’ best friend and since James and Sirius are already dead, I think it is only logical that Lupin will also probably die.

pensieve_master

February 28th, 2007, 6:09 pm

When Rowling gave Harry Ginny, she gave him a life after DH. Ginny is Harry's character completion. She fufills his greatest desire, family. Through her he can marry into the Weasley's, as well as start his own family.

Also, we see through Dumbledore it is posible to continue living a life after defeating a powerful dark wizard. This along with the Ginny plotline makes me believe Harry will survive DH.

Yes, well done. I agree.

I do not see how JKR could kill off "the boy who lived". It just doesn't work. There is no way Valdemort wins in the end (evil triumphs over good???). And, it is too miserable an ending for Harry to have lived a life of abuse and neglect only to have it end in death for him.

TRIWIZARD

February 28th, 2007, 7:32 pm

Quite simply - no. I don't think JK will kill him off. Years from now everyone who reads the book would already know ahead of time that Harry gets killed in the end simply by seeing the movie. We don't know now because we're reading it in the making.

Who would kill a hero?

smyonson

February 28th, 2007, 7:55 pm

I don't think that Harry will die in the final book, but I do believe that he will be greatly changed from this ordeal. As many characthers are. He has spent the better half of his life with this final confrontation always looming. Now that it will be complete his life/purpose will have completely changed, but I think he will do well in the fact of just being a loving friend, husband and father. (Prehaps he will follow in Mr. Weasly's steps)

Mr_Watson

February 28th, 2007, 9:29 pm

But that's not what the book says. Remus tells Harry that his parents sacrificed their lives so he can live. If he can find a way to defeat Voldermort and still survive, that's what they would want. Of course Harry is willing to die to destroy Voldermort, but the prophecy strongly indicates that one of the two will survive. It's not going to be Voldermort, so the survivor will be Harry.

Actually, it just says that they both can't live at the same time, not that one of them has to survive. And you're forgetting on crucial conversation between Dumbledore and Harry in The Half-Blood Prince:

"But, sir, it all comes to the same thing, doesn't it? I've got to try and kill him, or —" "Got to? Of course you've got to! But not because of the prophecy! Because you, yourself, will never rest until you've tried! We both know it! Imagine, please, just for a moment, that you had never heard that prophecy! How would you feel about Voldemort now? Think!"

Harry watched Dumbledore striding up and down in front ol him, and thought. He thought of his mother, his father, and Sirius. He thought of Cedric Diggory. He thought of all the terrible deeds he knew Lord Voldemort had done. A flame seemed to leap inside his chest, searing his throat.

"I'd want him finished," said Harry quietly. "And I'd want to do it."
"Of course you would!" cried Dumbledore. "You see, the prophecy does not mean you have to do anything! But the prophecy caused Lord Voldemort to mark you as his equal. ... In other words, you are free to choose your way, quite free to turn your back on the prophecy! But Voldemort continues to set
store by the prophecy. He will continue to hunt you . . . which makes it certain, really, that —"

"That one of us is going to end up killing the other," said Harry. "Yes."

I always though Harry would die...of course, I don't want that to happen, but you have to understand that the prophecy does not say that one of them has to LIVE, but that one of them has to DIE. So basically, there are 3 possible endings:
1) Harry kills Voldy and lives happily ever after. - I don't see this happening. JKR said that she would kill off one of the main characters in the novel. Frankly, I don't see Ron or Hermione dying. And this is the last book...the story will have to end. If Harry lives, she can't really end it, because people will want info on what happens next, how does Harry live and so one. The thing I'll say next, I won't say to defend my theory or whatever, it's just a side note: People WILL try to make money on Harry Potter after the last book. Some wannabe writers WILL try to continue the story so crazed Potter fans would buy them like mad and read them.

2) Voldy kills Harry and rules the world - I don't have to say much here, do I? This would just be plain retarded... All the struggle through 7 books just so Voldy would win in the end...

3) Harry and Voldy kill each other in the final battle - Now, this one I strongly believe in. In the end of the final battle, they kill each other off with one final course. I won't say Avada Kedavra, I doubt that Harry would use that. Anyways, Harry rids the world of Voldys evil, and Voldy, by killing Harry, turns him into a hero that will be remembered trough history as the one who gave his life to kill the most powerful dark wizard of all times. That way, his name forever stays in the wizarding world, where he really belongs, and ends the series for sure.

I don't want the third option to come true, I think no-one does, but I just find that theory the most plausible. Of course, this is only my opinion...I might be tragically wrong :D

hagrids_wench

March 1st, 2007, 12:41 am

JKR shows throughout the series that some things are worth dying for. Lily dies for Harry and we see loads of examples of members of the Order who are killed or who die fighting Voldemort.

You mention Cedric, whom I enjoyed as a character,however, I was not as attached to him as I was Dumbledore. I guess that I have to agree that JKR handled it well and there was really no reason why she wouldn't have. I think the these books have done a lot to teach young people about loyalty and trust and what you do for your friends. When so much in the world does not. However

We teach children as young as eight about the second world war, a conflict which cost countless lives and children are able to recognise the sacrifice made by those who died and to understand why they chose to fight (and yes I know that not all 2nd world war soldiers chose to be involved hence my point about innocents and those with no choice)

Unless a child is born and lives in a country torn by war or has a parent who is overseas at this time do you really think they "understand" the premise? When children learn about WWII, or for that matter any war, they are learning about places they have never been and people they have never known. History is a story to kids and kids love stories and they relate to them even if they don't have personal experience. But the stories they read in History class are short and they don't become attached to the "characters". They also get good marks if they remember the players.

I think war is, to them, something on their Play Station II, a movie, or television news (and that often looks like a PSII game too). I know that my eight year old grandson has not attained the concept that you seem to be alluding to. And I know he would not understand why Harry Potter "The Good Guy" lost and Voldemort "The Bad Guy" walked away.

I would be saddened if he actually did make it through alive, it would destroy the theme JKR has created.

Although I can sorta kinda see where your coming from we aren't reading Dostoyevsky,Tolstoy,Chekhov or even Beowulf. This is JK Rowling and even though I believe that her books will be classics I hope they aren't meant to be a socio/pyscho treatise on the hopelessness of good fighting evil. Because a lot of her young audience will not get it and will probably feel betrayed. I cannot see what the point of a seven volume series about the "boy who didn't die" and continually fought to live would make if she clocked him in the end.

If Harry lives, she can't really end it, because people will want info on what happens next, how does Harry live and so one.

Sir Arthur Conan Doyle went through much the same agony trying to rid himself of Sherlock Holmes. Something tells me that JK Rowling has a lot more backbone than Doyle. (She has made a lot more money too. So she can let people whine for more Harry and still roll over and go back to a well earned nap)

As far as anyone writing anything even closely related to her books they would have to have permission and I am betting she wouldn't give it. You cannot improve on the original and these books are some of the best in children's literature in a long time.

JKR has not written Harry as a superhero and it's highly doubtful he'll end up that way. Instead, she's repeatedly shown that Harry wants to be normal, that he dislikes the life he's been given, and he wants Voldermort gone because that's the one thing preventing him, Harry, from being normal. She's transitioned Harry from looking back to what he's lost to looking forward to what he can have, and I can't see her taking away his deepest desire so he can save the world.

I see Harry as a good kid with a little "extra" and if anyone deserves a peaceful life it is Harry. He grew up in a nasty home environment and even though he loves Hogwarts it has been one crisis after another. I don't know if he dislikes everything about the life he has but it seems as though he would like to be a 'normal' wizard with a fairly quiet life. Whatever quiet life is to a Wizard.

I would hate to think that because this series ,in the end, appealed to adults capable of deeper thinking that JKR would feel obligated or swayed to write an ending that we could forever debate the depths of instead of sticking to what she started with. IMHO that would be the triumph of Good over Evil and I really don't think that she needs to rid herself of Harry to do it.

I would be thoroughly disgusted, I am sure she wouldn't care, and I would still be thoroughly disgusted.:grumble:

GryffSolider

March 1st, 2007, 3:17 am

I will agree with you on this. I believe Harry will die. He almost has to. Not nessasarily due to the prophecy but just because the series (to me) has lead him to this critical point. He will have to choose (as DD so lovingly put it) between what is right and what is easy.

The easy way is too die, IMHO. Like I posted before, Harry one lasting quality is his endless supply of courage, and the most couageous thing would be too live, move on beyond the death and ugliness that was been in his face since he was a year old.

Nairobi_Dawn

March 1st, 2007, 3:45 am

The easy way is too die, IMHO. Like I posted before, Harry one lasting quality is his endless supply of courage, and the most couageous thing would be too live, move on beyond the death and ugliness that was been in his face since he was a year old.

I have been up and down the road on this one before. We can speculate all we want...Which is so much fun :p , but it could really go either way! (Which gets back to the fun part!!!)

I would LOVE to see him live, have a family with Ginny, do cool married couples friends things with Ron and Hermione, but if he has to die...I will have to grieve for him, and go through a mourning process the likes of which neither Dumbledore or Sirius have ever seen!!!!

BTW: I love your conversation between Bellatrix and Voldemort!!!

Sasblack

March 1st, 2007, 12:57 pm

Unless a child is born and lives in a country torn by war or has a parent who is overseas at this time do you really think they "understand" the premise? When children learn about WWII, or for that matter any war, they are learning about places they have never been and people they have never known. History is a story to kids and kids love stories and they relate to them even if they don't have personal experience. But the stories they read in History class are short and they don't become attached to the "characters". They also get good marks if they remember the players.

I think war is, to them, something on their Play Station II, a movie, or television news (and that often looks like a PSII game too). I know that my eight year old grandson has not attained the concept that you seem to be alluding to. And I know he would not understand why Harry Potter "The Good Guy" lost and Voldemort "The Bad Guy" walked away.

I am afraid I have to disagree with you. I am a primary school teacher (with terrible spelling i add!) and the kids I teach are always very moved by the lessons we do about the war. I think it depends on how you teach it and i think that there has to be an element of role play involved to really bring it home. I think a lot of kids can in some way identify with Harry and so were he to die they would feel it.

I am a firm believer that children can understand anything if it is explained to them properly and if as you say, a child is left puzzled, upset or confused by the ending then they will ask their parents who then have a wonderful opportunity to deepen their understanding. JKR has never dumbed down her langauge or style for children so why would she do it with her content?

I am not attacking you personally here and i respect what you are saying, you clearly have experience with children and I am in no way suggesting that my own views are better.

However, it annoys me when people "dumb down" for children or don't credit them with the ability to understand things simply because of their age. It varies wildly from child to child and surely it is always better to cater for those with a greater knowledge or understanding and assist the rest to reach that level with appropriate sensitivity and help, understanding limits but not blanket applying them to all?

This is probably very off topic, i apologise.

SusanBones

March 1st, 2007, 1:13 pm

I can't think of too many books in which the hero dies. In fact, I can't think of any, but if someone would like to list a few, I would like to see what they are about.

Anyway, it just wouldn't seem fair to have an orphan who slept in a closet for ten years, then spent his school years with the greatest Dark Wizard of his age trying to kill him, die at the end of the story. Harry needs to go on into adulthood. Someday he will have to help the next "Chosen One" defeat the next Dark Wizard that comes along. He has to be alive in order to be a mentor for that person. Because, as Dumbledore said, you can't eliminate evil.

BurrowGhoul

March 1st, 2007, 2:07 pm

I can't think of too many books in which the hero dies. In fact, I can't think of any, but if someone would like to list a few, I would like to see what they are about.

The Bible.

SusanBones

March 1st, 2007, 2:12 pm

The Bible. Good one :lol: There are also a lot of stories about the lives of the saints that fit that definition, too.

I guess I should have been a little clearer. I don't know too many books in this genre in which the hero dies. I am not saying they aren't out there, because I know that they exist. I know that Sherlock Holmes is one of them. Any other ones?

hagrids_wench

March 1st, 2007, 3:13 pm

I am afraid I have to disagree with you. I am a primary school teacher (with terrible spelling i add!) and the kids I teach are always very moved by the lessons we do about the war. I think it depends on how you teach it and i think that there has to be an element of role play involved to really bring it home. I think a lot of kids can in some way identify with Harry and so were he to die they would feel it.

:lol: Oh but I agree with you. There is no doubt, whatsoever in my mind, that children and apparently adults of all ages identify with Harry and his friends and even his enemies. It is always dependent upon how things are presented and taught to children or adolescents as to whether or not they assimilate or identify with what they are presented with. And do so in a healthy way. My grandmother, 94 yrs old this spring, was a primary school teacher too, I have a great love for teacher-people. Her first love was first grade even though she had taught all grade levels. She is the one who read me all the classics (Alive, Willows, Poppins, you name it). I am sure that Harry would have been something she would have made sure that I grew up with if he had existed then.

However, it annoys me when people "dumb down" for children or don't credit them with the ability to understand things simply because of their age. It varies wildly from child to child and surely it is always better to cater for those with a greater knowledge or understanding and assist the rest to reach that level with appropriate sensitivity and help, understanding limits but not blanket applying them to all?

Again I agree with you. Todays child is much more sophisticated than my generation's children were. However, I don't know if I think that is a good thing but there it is and it has to be dealt with accordingly and intelligently.

My grandson's concept of so much around him and his opinions are far older than his years. It is unfortunate that children are not allowed to remain children a little longer. The media and society in general have seen to that.

Thus, I do not understand why Harry Potter's death would be a fulfilling thing or a good thing. It has never seemed to me that that was the author's intention and yet many people here seem to think that is the only way the ending would make sense. I will have to begin paying attention to the age groups of the posters that feel that way. Sociologically I expect it would be interesting.

I am not attacking you personally here and i respect what you are saying, you clearly have experience with children and I am in no way suggesting that my own views are better.

:lol: No worries. Never felt attacked by a good discussion.

Back on topic though...before the Unspeakables eat our eyeballs for lunch.

I can't think of too many books in which the hero dies. In fact, I can't think of any, but if someone would like to list a few, I would like to see what they are about.

SusanBones111, like your name, doesn't make me as hungry as KidneyPie though.:drool:

I can think of one right off the top of my head right now but it would probably be a spoiler so I guess I shouldn't say it. But I agree with you there really aren't many out there. Even Dickens spent more time killing off peripheral characters than he did heroes.

I would be interested in knowing what JKR thinks of threads like these. Do you suppose she ever peeks?

In any case I do not believe that Harry dies in the Deathly Hallows. I do believe that he will be a very changed young man. I do believe I will lose Hagrid, and possibly one of the Weasleys and I have a feeling Snape will somehow redeem himself and do it by giving his life. Possibly Draco and I would even feel badly about that as he is a young person trying to gain the attention of a rather nasty parent. (Even though Lucius and I have the same hair)

I have an attachment to all the characters on some level whether good or bad and will feel badly for any of them being lost.

But not Voldemort. He is going down. And I will get up and do the Happy Dance when he does.

Voldemort dies in the Deathly Hallows, he has to, otherwise what possible sense does anything JKR has written make???

Good fights Evil and Evil wins?

One cannot live while the other survives. I can count to one. I see one person going down. And I do not think that Harry giving up his life in order to destroy Voldemort would be fulfilling the prophecy.

But I have been wrong before...I think it was September of 1974 but I have conveniently forgotten the date.

Sasblack

March 1st, 2007, 3:21 pm

SusanBones

March 1st, 2007, 3:51 pm

Lord of the Rings (while not strictly a children's book)

Charlottes Web is another good example

The Lion The Witch and The Wardrobe - although Aslan does come back to life

Little Women - i was read this as a child and so I think of it as a kiddie book

i think there must be more. Thanks for your response. I have only seen the Lord of the Rings movies, so I am not familiar with the books. I do know that Frodo survives the task of saving the ring.

I must be one of the few people who made it through childhood without reading Charlotte's Web. But you are right. I have heard that the hero dies in that one.

I am not sure which character compares to Harry in The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe.

Beth dies in Little Women. I consider Jo to be the main character of that book. But yes, one of the "Little Women" dies. In fact, there are a lot of children's books with a death of a loved one in it. We have "The Little Princess" in which the father has died and the daughter is left penniless and at the mercy of the boarding school. Another book by the same author, "The Secret Garden", has an orphan and a child without a mother who has been ignored by the father.These stories are of children triumphing over adversity. I think Harry is similiar in this theme.

Thanks for the book list. Maybe I should read Charlotte's Web. I think one of the kids has left it on the bookshelf. :lol:

I wonder if the prophecy would have been worded differently if JKR was setting the story up to have the hero sacrifice his life in order to save the world.
Instead of the line: "either must die at the hand of the other" - which means one or the other -
the prophecy would have said something like - "and the one will give his life in order to kill the other".

It would prepare the readers for the possiblilty that Harry would sacrifice himself in order to save everyone else.

I think that prophecy indicates that it is a one or the other kind of thing, not both of them.

sparkly

March 1st, 2007, 4:02 pm

[QUOTE=SusanBones111;4372324]I can't think of too many books in which the hero dies. In fact, I can't think of any, but if someone would like to list a few, I would like to see what they are about.

Lord of the Rings (while not strictly a children's book)

Charlottes Web is another good example

The Lion The Witch and The Wardrobe - although Aslan does come back to life

Little Women - i was read this as a child and so I think of it as a kiddie book

i think there must be more.

The hero doesn't die in the Lord of the Rings. Frodo left Middle-earth but he did not die.

The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe - Aslan is not really the hero - the children are the heroes. Aslan is intended to be a Christ-like figure. Harry Potter doesn't have a similar character.

In Little Women, the hero is not Beth, it's Jo.

Never read Charlotte's Web.

hagrids_wench

March 1st, 2007, 4:54 pm

[quote=Sasblack;4372429]

The hero doesn't die in the Lord of the Rings. Frodo left Middle-earth but he did not die.

The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe - Aslan is not really the hero - the children are the heroes. Aslan is intended to be a Christ-like figure. Harry Potter doesn't have a similar character.

In Little Women, the hero is not Beth, it's Jo.

Never read Charlotte's Web.

None of the heroes die in LOTR. Or rather they only die of old age if you read the appendices. Gandalf falls in Moria and returns so for awhile you are definitely bumming. Boromir was to belated a Hero in my opinion.

I always thought of Wilbur as the Hero in Charlotte's Web so maybe that is just at matter of personal leanings.

Dicken's Little Nell dies in the Old Curiosity Shop. And that was considered, at least the shorter version, a young person's book. It was a very maudlin death and I chuckled through most of it. And I love Dickens.

The Bridge to Terabithia

The original Little Red Riding Hood and most other faerie stories originally written for adults and then sanitized for children

Lord of the Flies but I don't think Piggy was a hero...well maybe he was, never made up my mind about that.

I really cannot think of many "kid" type books in this genre that do away with the Hero in the end.

I am just going keep chanting Harry Lives! Harry Lives! Harry Lives!

Spritey

March 1st, 2007, 5:12 pm

I think war is, to them, something on their Play Station II, a movie, or television news (and that often looks like a PSII game too). I know that my eight year old grandson has not attained the concept that you seem to be alluding to. And I know he would not understand why Harry Potter "The Good Guy" lost and Voldemort "The Bad Guy" walked away.

But I don't think anyone is suggesting that Voldemort would walk away. I think most people who think that Harry will die (that I've spoken to, at least) tend to think that he'll die taking Voldemort down, as opposed to dying and leaving the world to a reign of evil omg ^_^ I think it's clear that JKR doesn't think the Prophecy is guiding things by itself - it seems that it's meant to be guiding Voldemort and Harry instead, in that Voldemort chose to follow the Prophecy, making it true. So I still think this leaves some wiggle room for other endings.

Anyway, I pretty much think that Harry will die and come back, but I won't go over it again since this thread makes me feel like an echo... :blush:

hagrids_wench

March 1st, 2007, 5:24 pm

I think it's clear that JKR doesn't think the Prophecy is guiding things by itself - it seems that it's meant to be guiding Voldemort and Harry instead, in that Voldemort chose to follow the Prophecy, making it true. So I still think this leaves some wiggle room for other endings.

So what your indicating is that, on some level, the prophecy is not a prophecy as we are used to thinking about them,e.g. Bible or Nostradamus but more of a self fulfilling prophecy if one of the players decide to take it seriously. In this case Voldemort?

I only ask because that line of thought seems to remove it as a prophecy and make it something else entirely.

As far as Harry dying/coming back...that I could live with. But JKR hasn't been particularly kind about that as yet so I am afraid I would be setting myself up for a fall.

Spritey

March 1st, 2007, 5:50 pm

So what your indicating is that, on some level, the prophecy is not a prophecy as we are used to thinking about them,e.g. Bible or Nostradamus but more of a self fulfilling prophecy if one of the players decide to take it seriously. In this case Voldemort?

I only ask because that line of thought seems to remove it as a prophecy and make it something else entirely.

As far as Harry dying/coming back...that I could live with. But JKR hasn't been particularly kind about that as yet so I am afraid I would be setting myself up for a fall.

Well, I'm specifically remembering something Jo said about MacBeth (ZOMG WE'RE ALL GOING TO DIE! *FLAIL* :))

ES: I remember thinking when I read “Order of the Phoenix,” what would happen if Harry and Voldemort just decided to —

JKR: Shake hands, and walk away? We'll agree to disagree!

[Laughter.]

ES: What if he never heard the prophecy?

JKR: And that's it, isn't it. As I said, that's what I posted on my site -

ES: I'm glad you put that up.

JKR: It's the “Macbeth” idea. I absolutely adore “Macbeth.” It is possibly my favorite Shakespeare play. And that's the question isn't it? If Macbeth hadn't met the witches, would he have killed Duncan? Would any of it have happened? Is it fated or did he make it happen? I believe he made it happen.

From the Mugglenet and TLC 2005 interview.

hagrids_wench

March 1st, 2007, 7:24 pm

Spritey
(ZOMG WE'RE ALL GOING TO DIE! *FLAIL* :))

JKR: It's the “Macbeth” idea. I absolutely adore “Macbeth.” It is possibly my favorite Shakespeare play. And that's the question isn't it? If Macbeth hadn't met the witches, would he have killed Duncan? Would any of it have happened? Is it fated or did he make it happen? I believe he made it happen.

So in other words the Prophecy is only as true or as apt to happen if someone believes that it will or should? Very interesting.

So in that sense it is self fulfilling. Almost as though ignorance truely is bliss. What you don't know cannot harm you. This theory has many corners and I love things with corners.

I guess I had better chant much louder. HARRY WILL NOT DIE! HARRY WILL NOT DIE! :lol:

mactabard_25

March 1st, 2007, 8:29 pm

[QUOTE=Sasblack;4372429]

The hero doesn't die in the Lord of the Rings. Frodo left Middle-earth but he did not die.

The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe - Aslan is not really the hero - the children are the heroes. Aslan is intended to be a Christ-like figure. Harry Potter doesn't have a similar character.

In Little Women, the hero is not Beth, it's Jo.

Never read Charlotte's Web.

Actually Frodo left Middle Earth for the equivelant of Heaven. So technically he passed on (although not physically dying).

I agree about Aslan not being the hero of Narnia but to a small child the lion Aslan is the bomb. He can walk, talk, and kick butt.

No clue about Little Women but you are probably right.

And yes Charlotte (the pigs saviour) does die.

Back to my point sorry... I could easily see Harry doing the same thing (as Frodo) but in a different way of course. He would die but not by a fatal blow or slowly over time from poison or wound. I also firmly disagree with him outright killing Voldy. So...I feel he will sacrifice himself to kill him. I will not go into details on my theory because it is lengthy, but i have posted it before.

Also as for it being a children's story... I agree and disagree. It started out as such, but has aged as the characters have. I remember reading and interview with JK where she said she wasn't really writing a children's story anymore and that really her story has always contained death and dispair.

SusanBones

March 1st, 2007, 8:40 pm

Also as for it being a children's story... I agree and disagree. It started out as such, but has aged as the characters have. I remember reading and interview with JK where she said she wasn't really writing a children's story anymore and that really her story has always contained death and dispair. I still think it is aimed at the young reader, not children, but maybe older adolescents. JK Rowling uses cute little phrases to describe the "kissing" scenes, such as lip-wrestling, to lend a light comic relief to the very real fact that teenagers fall in love. Most of the Death Eaters activities occur in the background. We hear that Amelia Bones' murder was especially gruesome, but are not told of any detail. Even Cedric, the Riddles and Dumbledore do not exhibit signs that their deaths were horrible. This book is not going to stray too fair into themes that are difficult to justify. Voldemort dying makes sense and it is well-deserved. Harry death would not be well deserved. It would be unfair.

mactabard_25

March 1st, 2007, 9:01 pm

Voldemort dying makes sense and it is well-deserved. Harry death would not be well deserved. It would be unfair.

Well I wasn't really saying Voldy wouldn't die, I just don't think Harry will outright kill him. I actually whole heartedly believe Voldy will die or fade from existence, I just think Harry will go with him. From interviews JK has gave she gives the impression (to me) that Harry will be a true hero, and a lot of times (not always) the hero dies to save everyone else...choosing between what is right and what is easy.

I disagree with the unfair comment though. I fail to see how Harry dying would be unfair to anyone. I'm sure some fans would be crushed just because he died but JK isn't trying to hurt or be unfair to anyone. I'm sure if she didn't kill Harry there would be fans out there that would react the same way. They would be just as dissapointed that he didn't die. You never know though, Harry might even be happy to die. He would get to see his parents, Sirius, and DD again.

Anywhoooo.... personally I hope he lives, but to me the way the story arc has gone I don't see him making it (I even support a lot of the theories that he will die because of the story arc). But I still hope he lives.

SusanBones

March 1st, 2007, 9:14 pm

I disagree with the unfair comment though. I fail to see how Harry dying would be unfair to anyone.
I just meant that it would seem unfair to Harry. He has had a pretty tough life. It would be nice if the poor kid got a break.

It has been nice chatting with you. It is entirely possible that Harry will die. I think we both agree that we don't want to see it happen.

mactabard_25

March 1st, 2007, 9:56 pm

true true... We will find out soon enough I suppose. It is fun to speculate though.

pensieve_master

March 2nd, 2007, 1:35 am

I would LOVE to see him live, have a family with Ginny, do cool married couples friends things with Ron and Hermione

If Harry lives and goes on to be an auror, I hardly think his life will be boring. Just think of the endless storylines that could be created wither by JKR if she chose or by fanfic writers.

UndeadEmpire13

March 2nd, 2007, 4:19 am

hagrids_wench

March 2nd, 2007, 5:31 am

"One character got a reprieve, but I have to say two die that I didn't intend to die...A price has to be paid. We are dealing with pure evil...They go for the main characters... well, I do". -JK Rowling

I just read the same thing! But I think I took it out of context because of all the quotes I read previously. I just went back and looked at it again...and well now it sounds differently to me. I thought that it had probably already been mentioned here somewhere but there are just too many threads to go through even with search. So I am really glad you posted this. I hope someone with more upstairs than I have will comment on it. :)

YellowRose

March 2nd, 2007, 11:25 am

No. It would be just too much of a downer. And what would be the point of all the suffering he has gone through just to die at the end?

sparkly

March 2nd, 2007, 3:23 pm

"One character got a reprieve, but I have to say two die that I didn't intend to die...A price has to be paid. We are dealing with pure evil...They go for the main characters... well, I do". -JK Rowling

I just finished reading this.
You think she intended for Harry to die?

I doubt she's referring to Harry, Ron, Ginny or Hermione in that quote. JKR wrote the last chapter of book seven nearly fifteen years ago, and she has said it hasn't changed substantially. The quote above indicates that she's recently changed her mind about what will happen to three characters, but if the final chapter hasn't changed, she probably wasn't referencing Harry. If she had changed her mind about Harry, the last chapter would need substantial re-work.

iluvhp_765

March 2nd, 2007, 4:05 pm

I think that Harry must die for the story to end. If he doesn't then as said before fan-fic writers will have a blast with it.

Harry's main purpose as a character is to prepare for Voldemort and eventually defeat him. His purpose as a character will be complete and the story will end with a boy who sacraficed his life for the sake of all wizard kind.

I absolutely despise that theory though!!

Lord_Kaine

March 2nd, 2007, 5:04 pm

"One character got a reprieve, but I have to say two die that I didn't intend to die...A price has to be paid. We are dealing with pure evil...They go for the main characters... well, I do". -JK Rowling
As morbid as it sounds, I almost hope they will do in DH. Harry have lost his parents, Sirius and Dumbledore because they sacrificed themselves for him. And now he don't want anyone else to stand between him and LV. That's the reason why I think someone of the trio (and perhaps even Ginny, if she tags along) could die. Many disagrees with this, because it wouldn't serve any purpose, Harry has suffered enough. But as JKR said, they're dealing with pure evil. Pure evil don't let you get away just because you've suffered, and pure evil don't go for other people if you're the one in their way.

If DH will have the deaths of more "parental" figures, like Lupin, Hagrid, or maybe Grawp or those I refers to as "safety net sacrifices", I will be disappointed. We have seen enough of those sacrifices, at least so I think. The only surprise would be if the Weasley family was attacked, they're the number one family against Voldemort, with a close bond to Harry.

Also, why I think Harry will die, is because I don't think he and his friends are going to survive a possible clash with Voldemort, not everyone of them. And Harry has shown us, both in OotP and HBP, that he don't care if he dies, in OotP he wants to go with Sirius, although he lives on later. And in HBP, he shows us again that he is ready to die in the fight. Harry does not fear his own death, only the deaths of those around him. Now more than ever. That's the reason I think Harry might die, to save those he loves, like his protectors did for him. He would not accept another sacrifice for his sake.

And while Harry might survive, get a family and live happily ever after, I don't see that life for him either. He is the boy who lives, and he wants to kill Voldemort, and protect those he loves more than anything. Harry is a fighter, and with DD out of the way, Voldemort will fear noone, maybe come out in the open. Harry will not rest as long as there is evil, he has shown clearly that he opposes it in every form.

EWells2188

March 2nd, 2007, 5:43 pm

calgary

March 2nd, 2007, 7:23 pm

I just read the same thing! But I think I took it out of context because of all the quotes I read previously. I just went back and looked at it again...and well now it sounds differently to me. I thought that it had probably already been mentioned here somewhere but there are just too many threads to go through even with search. So I am really glad you posted this. I hope someone with more upstairs than I have will comment on it. :)

That may well be, but the fate of the trio was decided long ago. If they died, it would take more then a minor rewrite. I think the recent statements were in regard to other characters going (such as Remus, Tonks, etc).

PhoenixFire_DA

March 2nd, 2007, 7:36 pm

I've been giving this some thought. I think I remember reading that someone once ask JKR the question of whether Ron will die and she responded, "As if I'd kill Harry's best friend!" or something like that. Now it seems to me she pretty much just said no way, I'd never kill Ron. Well if it's that important to keep Harry's best friend alive, then I'm thinking there's no chance Harry, himself, will be killed off.

Does anyone else remember seeing or hearing that quote? Cuz I can't find it anywhere right now!!

Ok I just found it!! Interview with Time in 2000. JKR said, "Mostly they are worried about Ron. As if I'm going to kill Harry's best friend."

This may have been specific to just one upcoming book at the time, but I'm hoping it applies to the overall series story arc!!

sparkly

March 2nd, 2007, 7:38 pm

I think that "Mr Watson", a few posts up, makes a very good point. I don't want to believe it, but he is right about the fact that if Harry lives, people will want to know more about him, etc. and crazed fans will try to make more money off of "fake" Harry stories. If he dies, however, that will be that and his name will live on as a historical figure. I can almost envison Prof. Binns teaching future Hogwarts students about the great Harry Potter who gave his life and saved the world, not once, but twice. I even think that this may be what Harry would want (as well as he'd be reunited with his family, etc.) I reallllllly hope this will not happen, but it is extremely realistic.

But JKR wrote the last chapter, and determined Harry's fate, five years before she had a publisher, so she had no idea that anyone would want to make money off the stories. In fact, she probably would have been thrilled at the concept that the stories would be so popular that her audience would want more.

Harry showed in HBP that he realizes he needs to look forward, not back, so he's not focused on reuniting with his family. Harry now knows that if he wants to achieve his deepest desire for a family that he needs to build one of his own and stop yearning to be with the one he's lost. He's started to build his own family with Ron and Hermione, as JKR has said, and he's continuing that with Ginny. Harry's new family is what he wants now, so he's looking forward to being reunited with them once Voldermort's gone. Harry doesn't have to die to be with his family; he needs to live.

Also, why I think Harry will die, is because I don't think he and his friends are going to survive a possible clash with Voldemort, not everyone of them. And Harry has shown us, both in OotP and HBP, that he don't care if he dies, in OotP he wants to go with Sirius, although he lives on later. And in HBP, he shows us again that he is ready to die in the fight. Harry does not fear his own death, only the deaths of those around him. Now more than ever. That's the reason I think Harry might die, to save those he loves, like his protectors did for him. He would not accept another sacrifice for his sake.

JKR has set up the reader to think that Harry doesn't stand a chance, so she's got us right where she wants us. She's building suspense by putting Harry in a position so that it appears that he won't be able to survive a fight with Voldermort - if she had made him all-powerful the last book wouldn't be very interesting.

So Harry's seeming inability to defeat Voldermort can't be used as an indicator he will die because that's just a literary device to keep the suspense. Instead the book offers other clues.

And while Harry might survive, get a family and live happily ever after, I don't see that life for him either. He is the boy who lives, and he wants to kill Voldemort, and protect those he loves more than anything. Harry is a fighter, and with DD out of the way, Voldemort will fear no one, maybe come out in the open. Harry will not rest as long as there is evil, he has shown clearly that he opposes it in every form.

All Harry has ever wanted is to be normal - he doesn't want to be a hero. So a family is the best reward for him. He isn't a fighter - he's only fighting because he has no alternative. If Voldermort were gone, Harry would be perfectly content to be a normal student entering his last year at Hogwarts, worrying about his NEWTs. Instead, Harry's been put in a position that he's the only one with the unique skills to destroy Voldermort. Harry will do what he has to do, but once that task is complete I don't think he'll continue fighting, unless he becomes an Auror.

Lord_Kaine

March 2nd, 2007, 7:46 pm

JKR has set up the reader to think that Harry doesn't stand a chance, so she's got us right where she wants us. She's building suspense by putting Harry in a position so that it appears that he won't be able to survive a fight with Voldermort - if she had made him all-powerful the last book wouldn't be very interesting.
Oh, agreed on that one. Since Harry lost to Snape, I know I will read nonstop if he goes up against Voldemort in a battle. If he learn to close his mind, he has a chance. He has the reflexes.

All Harry has ever wanted is to be normal - he doesn't want to be a hero. So a family is the best reward for him. He isn't a fighter - he's only fighting because he has no alternative. If Voldermort were gone, Harry would be perfectly content to be a normal student entering his last year at Hogwarts, worrying about his NEWTs. Instead, Harry's been put in a position that he's the only one with the unique skills to destroy Voldermort. Harry will do what he has to do, but once that task is complete I don't think he'll continue fighting, unless he becomes an Auror.
As normal as a 'wizard' can be. I agree, Harry doesn't want to be a hero, but he does oppose those he thinks does wrong, and he fights for the ones he loves, much more than many others. He goes to the ministry because he thinks LV has captured Sirius without thinking about the consequences, or how he should stop LV. As for the "he fights because he has no alternative". That's true, in a way, but there is always an alternative, he could turn tail and run, or lay down and die, as he and Dumbledore discuss in the beginning of HBP. Harry knows that LV will hunt him to the bitter end, so his alternatives is either to flee, getting dragged into the arena to fight, or walk in there himself. That's what makes him a fighter.

UndeadEmpire13

March 2nd, 2007, 8:30 pm

So she won't kill Ron because he's Harry's best friend?
Ahh...that could hint she won't kill Harry.
Hermione perhaps?

I have a theory that Lucius will kill Malfoy because Malfoy doesn't want to follow in being a death-eater.

I believe Hagrid will die.
As sad as it is, and maybe Lupin.

Tonks, I doubt it.

PhoenixFire_DA

March 2nd, 2007, 8:41 pm

The more I think about it I like the Lucius dueling Draco theory. Just seems like the kind of treachery we could expect from the Dark Forces. It illustrates that anger and greed are more important to them than family and love. It proves just how despicable the members of the dark side can be that a father would attack his own son.

Then again, I also like the idea that Draco will try to turn away from Voldemort and Lucius will sacrifice himself to save Draco when You-know-who tries to kill Draco. Just so many ways that could play out!

Arkus

March 2nd, 2007, 9:51 pm

Well, I really don't want Harry(or any of the trio or the Weasleys for that matter) to die and my favorite theory for Harry not dying is that in the very first chapter of the SS that he was named "The Boy who lived" If he died, it'd have to be changed to, "The Boy who lived... for a while" doesn't sound as good to me :no:

BurrowGhoul

March 2nd, 2007, 10:03 pm

But when he's 17 he's no longer a boy, he's a man. So while he was a boy, he lived.

Arkus

March 2nd, 2007, 10:04 pm

So you'd call him "They boy who lived and the man who died?" and if were going that direction, he wasn't even old enough to be a boy yet, he was still a baby. And if you wanted to use the Gender approach then hes still a Boy when he gets old..

dubbleB

March 2nd, 2007, 10:54 pm

But when he's 17 he's no longer a boy, he's a man. So while he was a boy, he lived.

I don't think symantics will be this important in the final outcome

BurrowGhoul

March 2nd, 2007, 11:13 pm

I don't think symantics will be this important in the final outcome

I was just pointing it out for all the people who didn't think he could be "The boy who lived" if he died. ;)

RWeasleysgirl

March 2nd, 2007, 11:17 pm

He would still be The Boy Who Lived, because he was given the title for surviving the Killing Curse. Surely when he was first called that no one expected him to live forever.

hagrids_wench

March 2nd, 2007, 11:34 pm

That may well be, but the fate of the trio was decided long ago. If they died, it would take more then a minor rewrite. I think the recent statements were in regard to other characters going (such as Remus, Tonks, etc).

That was my original thought too. And I much prefer it to my second thought which was "Oh NO!" :no:

Ok I just found it!! Interview with Time in 2000. JKR said, "Mostly they are worried about Ron. As if I'm going to kill Harry's best friend."

This may have been specific to just one upcoming book at the time, but I'm hoping it applies to the overall series story arc!!

At this point I will hang on to anything anyone offers if it means Harry survives the seventh book. I cannot accept the theory that the only way the book "works" is for him to die.

JKR has set up the reader to think that Harry doesn't stand a chance, so she's got us right where she wants us. She's building suspense by putting Harry in a position so that it appears that he won't be able to survive a fight with Voldermort - if she had made him all-powerful the last book wouldn't be very interesting.

Exactly. This is the last book and we are all going to be :drool: idiots by the time it is released. I have thought all along when JKR is asked pointed questions about the Deathly Hallows...Do these reporters really think she is going to TELL THEM what is going to happen? If she did what would be the point of even releasing the book? The little bits of information that she has let fall have only served to make our tongues hang out a little longer and a little wetter. She is very good with her PR the whole idea is to keep us interested and she is doing a bang-up job of that.

All Harry has ever wanted is to be normal - he doesn't want to be a hero.

In the OoTp, which I had to go and look at again for this post, in the chapter "The Lost Prophecy" Harry is certainly not happy to find out that the prophecy relates to him. He seems hopeful that Voldemort may have been mistaken and Neville is the chosen one. He doesn't think he has any particular powers that Voldemort does not have and Dumbledore said :

" In the end, it mattered not that you could not close your mind. It was your heart
that saved you." page 844 USA edition

I believe that in the end the same power that Lily used to save her baby will be the same power that saves Harry seventeen years later. And that is love.

LikeLuna

March 3rd, 2007, 12:26 am

I believe that in the end the same power that Lily used to save her baby will be the same power that saves Harry seventeen years later. And that is love.

BAM. :tu:

I think the series' message will be strongest if this is the way it ends - with Harry living.

stinger_jet

March 4th, 2007, 1:39 am

dont think so, but im guessing its going to be the end for either ron or hermione...=(

dubbleB

March 4th, 2007, 1:02 pm

I think Harry won't die,because of the simple fact that he's the hero of the book and the genre of the HP books isn't drama, its adventure , and the hero never dies.
Classic rule of literature

Fury

March 4th, 2007, 3:08 pm

Spritey

March 4th, 2007, 6:30 pm

If Harry died, it would go to someone else's Point-of-View or the book would end with that.

Or it could just stay in Harry's point of view :eyebrows:

Alonna

March 4th, 2007, 7:53 pm

Harry will not die. But this is what I am mostly baseing it on.

In a way, the books are Harry's POV. Almost everything we see has to do by Harry's Point-of-View. The only exception is the first part of the first book, and the first part of the sixth book. Remember the fourth one was Harry's dream.

So... can anyone honestly see the book ending with...

"Avada Kedavra!"

Harry falls to the ground, his eyes still open.

Because I cannot. What I am saying, is there is no way, given JK Rowling's way of writing the book, that there would be a sudden change of point-of-view now after so long. If Harry died, it would go to someone else's Point-of-View or the book would end with that.

That is why Harry will not die.

JKR has used the point-of-view of other characters several times in the books. The first two chapters of HBP were written from other point-of-view, so I do not see how it would be a problem to change point-of-view at the very end of Deathly Hallows for the last chapter or so. She has changed point-of-view before and can do so again.

Changing point-of-view at the end of a book in order to kill a main character has been done in great literary works of the past. In All Quiet on the Western Front, the entire book is written as first person except the last chapter which switches to third person in which the main character dies. This switch is far bigger than it would be if Harry died because the books have always been written from third person limited rather than first person. It's much easier to change the point-of-view character in third person limited than to switch from first to third person.

Mr_Watson

March 4th, 2007, 9:40 pm

I don't really see how the point-of-View could limit JKR. She can change the POV anytime she wants, so I really don't think it's relevant that "most" of the book is written in first person. Fury, you said yourself that there are some chapters which are not written from Harry's POV, so there's no reason why JKR wouldn't do it in the last chapter too.

hagrids_wench

March 5th, 2007, 12:32 am

Remember the fourth one was Harry's dream.

:huh: Okay. What did I miss? There must be a thread about this somewhere?

LikeLuna

March 5th, 2007, 12:46 am

:huh: Okay. What did I miss? There must be a thread about this somewhere?

Fury said that the first chapter of GoF was Harry's dream (he wakes up in the next chapter). Actually, part of it wasn't his dream. If I remember correctly, it started out talking about how Tom Riddle (Sr.) was living with his parents and they all were mysteriously killed. Then it went on to talk about the villagers and how they were all suspicious of Frank. That part couldn't have been Harry's dream because it was being basically narrated (a lot like Chapter 1 of HBP). Then it goes on to talk about how Frank was murdered, which was Harry's dream.

I agree that JKR could switch POV in order to kill Harry, although I don't think she will.

eviljim13

March 5th, 2007, 2:33 am

If you write a "harry Potter"experience
expose Harry to death every year
save him
and then worry about us
you have problems

LJB85

March 5th, 2007, 7:36 am

I've changed my mind and now want to put on the record for myself to view after DH that I believe Harry Potter is going to survive. This was after all, my initial instinct when I first learned about the series. He has a fair chance.

dubbleB

March 5th, 2007, 11:56 am

Reasons Harry won't die :
I) It would just be to depressing ,its not like Dumbledores death who had a long and relativly happy life . Harry's allready lost his parents,godfather and mentor ;he's been treated unfair by the minestry (thats saying it in the nicest way possible) and he 'll propably lose someone dear to him in DH.
II) The good guys always win,always
III)The prophecy says neither can live while the other survives. when you look up to survive in the dictionary you'll find:
1.to remain alive after the death of someone, the cessation of something, or the occurrence of some event; continue to live: Few survived after the holocaust.
2. to remain or continue in existence or use: Ancient farming methods still survive in the Middle East.
3. to get along or remain healthy, happy, and unaffected in spite of some occurrence: She's surviving after the divorce.
–verb (used with object) 4. to continue to live or exist after the death, cessation, or occurrence of: His wife survived him. He survived the operation.
5. to endure or live through(an affliction, adversity, misery, etc.): She's survived two divorces.
so these things will happen to Voldemort or to Harry and I just can' t picture Voldemort to survive(JKR can make it happen of course it's her book ,but I seriously doubt she wants evil to triumph).
IV) You can compare the books with a typical Silvester Stalone or Shwarzeneger movie( with about a billion times a billion more depth):
1 )introduction of the characters -> books 1,2&3
2 )the main hero is confronted with an arch ennimy , starts training for the final confrontation -> books 4,5 and the main part of book 6
3) the hero is put in an underdog position -> end of book 6 an propably most of book 7
4 )good triumphs over evil after a heroic battle -> propably end of book 7

magicxx

March 5th, 2007, 10:48 pm

hermy1_owl

March 6th, 2007, 1:02 am

I think Harry may or may not die. I believe it is most likely JKR won't make him die for the sake of many fans but I personally wouldn't mind. Actually, so long as Voldemort is vanquished I don't give a darn as to what happens. Oh, and I don't want Snape to die. Or Malfoy. I like it when the bad guys live ;)

Spritey

March 6th, 2007, 4:57 am

I believe Harry won't die for a few reasons. First, it is a children's book, and J.K.R. wouldn't kill Harry and face having the world population of kids, and even adults, who read Harry Potter go into a deep state of depression because of him dieing. Secondly, I have just picked up MugglNet.com's book, and it states that in a unrecorded reading at a bookstore where J.K.R. was, somebody asked her if Ron, Harry, and Hermione would survive, and she answered yes. J.K.R. wouldn't lie, and she did answer this at the reading BEFORE her books were international bestsellers.

That's not canon, though. Not that I don't trust Mugglenet, but you know... canon. And wouldn't that ruin the ending? Even when JKR didn't realise it would be a bestseller, I get the impression she wouldn't be the type to spoil people. I don't see her sitting in a bookstore and going, "Oh, and btw, they all survive! Happy reading!" Kinda ruin the suspense, wouldn't it?

Oh, and for the record, I've given up on arguing the "think of the children!" point :) There's quotes throughout this thread which make that a shaky argument, IMO, but I'm beginning to sound like an echo...

magicxx

March 6th, 2007, 9:19 pm

Spritey

March 6th, 2007, 10:00 pm

I changed my mind..I don't think she would stop at killing him just because it's a children's book. But I still think that she wouldn't lie...so why would she answer yes to Harry, Hermy, and Ron surviving? If she didn't want to answer, we all know she wouldn't have..and I don't think she would've lied. But anyways: she also modified it and killed some people she never intened to, and let one live..so it might be one of them?

But do we have any confirmation that she even said it? Because I don't think she'd lie either, so the logical answer is that she didn't actually say anything in the first place :) And you're right about the second part; two more people are going to die than she meant to. I'd say they would be outside characters though, to have such flexible fates, you know?

LikeLuna

March 7th, 2007, 12:23 am

This alleged quote could be referring to the trio living through the book being signed, not necessarily the whole series. I'm sure JKR has never told a fan whether the trio lives or dies. And I agree with Spritey that the fate of the trio has not changed, especially not Harry's fate. Seeing as he's the main character, JKR wouldn't begin writing Book 7 and halfway through think, "Oh, nevermind, Harry's going to die."

kimo_5250

March 7th, 2007, 9:39 pm

HPGW_4_ever

March 8th, 2007, 5:45 pm

dubbleB

March 9th, 2007, 10:37 am

Don't yell at me, but YES.
I believe that in the epilogue JK will tell us how Harry died. My hope is that it will be peacefully in his sleep after over 50 years of marriage to Ginny and having many many kids. He has to die or else there could be more books and JK doesn't want that thats why she has made jokes about Hp and the mid-life crisis. Sorry people.

If Harry dies after 50 years of mariage ,that means he'll be in his seventies that's actually not that old for a wizzard.

On a very difrent note allow me to go trough the prophecy phrase by phrase to explaining why I think Harry will live:
The one with the power to vanquish the Dark Lord approaches born to those who have thrice defied him, born as the seventh month dies This is what Snape heard and could refer to Nevil or Harry
and the Dark Lord will mark him as his equal, but he will have power the Dark Lord knows not
For some obscure reason LV chose Harry unknowing Lillies love 'ld protect Harry against the Killing Curse ,LV made Harry his equal by killing both his parents and thus giving Harry the thrive to vanquish LV ,never to rest before this goal is achieved
and either must die at the hand of the other for neither can live while the other survives
LV kills Harry or Harry kills ,simple as that
Harry survives LV or LV survives Harry
Conlusion :
If Harry dies by the hand of LV it means that ther is no one left with the power to vanquish the dark lord (Nevil is out of the picture because LV didn't mark him as his equal) and LV will be able to live forever spreading a reign of terror . Very unhappy ending ,very depressing and very unlikely.
If Harry dies afther LV dies by the hand of Harry it will be someone else who killed Harry wich would mean that after building up to the final battle (where we all 've been waiting for for more than 3000 pages) someone pops up and says Avada Kedavra ,i'd say that would be pretty anticlimatic
The only remaining option would be that Hary kills LV after losing yet another dear friend and a huge weight falls of both Harrys and our shoulder

Oliverlvr20

March 10th, 2007, 5:28 pm

I want to really hope that he will not die in the last book, and of course if JK follows the thing with the bad guy always loses then we can almost be gueranteed that he will not die, but you never know, possible Harry will die and Ron will finally gain courage and kill Voldermort.

Evil_Voldemort

March 10th, 2007, 5:33 pm

Hi. I hope Harry doesn't die in Book 7. I think Harry will defeat Voldemort in the end with his might and the Power of Love.

hagrids_wench

March 10th, 2007, 6:39 pm

If Harry dies by the hand of LV it means that ther is no one left with the power to vanquish the dark lord (Nevil is out of the picture because LV didn't mark him as his equal) and LV will be able to live forever spreading a reign of terror . Very unhappy ending ,very depressing and very unlikely.
If Harry dies afther LV dies by the hand of Harry it will be someone else who killed Harry wich would mean that after building up to the final battle (where we all 've been waiting for for more than 3000 pages) someone pops up and says Avada Kedavra ,i'd say that would be pretty anticlimatic

:tu:

And this is where I think the truth lies. What would be the point of bringing a quest to an end with the death of the Hero? Even if the Hero dies in order to save others it still seems to me unfair that he would never enjoy the fruits of his labors. And before someone says that "life is unfair sometimes" I want to say that this is a book and books usually paint a happily ever after picture....at least in the genre. I think that anyone that dies in the final book will be "spares" even if they are "spares" that we as readers are attached to. I think we will get the chance to see some of the "bad" guys redeem themselves and some of the "good" guys make heroic last stands and I fully expect one of these to be Neville and another to be Snapeand/or Draco.

But I do not think Harry is slated for departure.

Wandhappy

March 10th, 2007, 7:03 pm

harry wont die...why would J.K kill off a huge money maker?

unconvinced

March 10th, 2007, 7:42 pm

harry wont die...why would J.K kill off a huge money maker?

Perhaps becuase she is not in it purely for the money and has already said she does not was to write any follow-ups.

hagrids_wench

March 11th, 2007, 1:45 am

harry wont die...why would J.K kill off a huge money maker?

I don't think it has anything to do with money and as stated above me she doesn't plan to write anymore Potter related books...except for a possible encyclopedic information volume. But no more stories, at least, she said. She has made enough money now so that I greatly doubt that she or her children and grandchildren will ever need to make any more.

I do think this,however, If Harry dies at the end of book seven...I do not see the last two movies doing very well at the box office. Possibly they won't even be made and I think the interest in the series as a whole would also suffer in the future. Who wants to read about the quest of the "boy who didn't die" only to find out that he does die in the end? I don't think it would matter what altruistic reason he might have for giving up his life or that he gets ambushed by Death Eaters and doesn't survive the point is most people want a happy ever after ending and Harry dying isn't it.

So I do not think the money is an issue that will keep Harry "safe" but I do think that any author wants to see their creation have a long life. Personally if I want to see the innocent die and the good guy lose I can read Stephen King. Harry is the heroic quest and that is different. Even King didn't kill Roland and no one is sacred in King's books.

Spritey

March 11th, 2007, 3:06 am

I don't think it has anything to do with money and as stated above me she doesn't plan to write anymore Potter related books...except for a possible encyclopedic information volume. But no more stories, at least, she said. She has made enough money now so that I greatly doubt that she or her children and grandchildren will ever need to make any more.

I do think this,however, If Harry dies at the end of book seven...I do not see the last two movies doing very well at the box office. Possibly they won't even be made and I think the interest in the series as a whole would also suffer in the future. Who wants to read about the quest of the "boy who didn't die" only to find out that he does die in the end? I don't think it would matter what altruistic reason he might have for giving up his life or that he gets ambushed by Death Eaters and doesn't survive the point is most people want a happy ever after ending and Harry dying isn't it.

I would honestly wonder who stole WB's sense of "YAY MONEY!!" if that ever happened, since millions of people are still going to see those movies, whether Harry dies or not. I mean, "Charlotte's Web" still got made, right? And that's a kids movie, too (...Unlike Harry Potter, which is SERIOUS BIDNESS, obviously.) And I can't be the only one who doesn't read books/see movies for conventionally happy endings? *whimper*

hagrids_wench

March 11th, 2007, 4:06 am

I would honestly wonder who stole WB's sense of "YAY MONEY!!" if that ever happened, since millions of people are still going to see those movies, whether Harry dies or not. I mean, "Charlotte's Web" still got made, right? And that's a kids movie, too (...Unlike Harry Potter, which is SERIOUS BIDNESS, obviously.) And I can't be the only one who doesn't read books/see movies for conventionally happy endings? *whimper*

:lol: I am not sure if you are agreeing or disagreeing with me...

While I do agree that Warner Bros. will get every penny they can out of this I still think that they would not have the turn out over time that they would if the last book had a Yay! ending. As far as Charlotte's Web is concerned, and I loved the book, I never thought of her as a hero I guess. I wonder why I didn't?? Odd. Either way Charlotte is not really an allegorical read and I guess that is the way I view Harry Potter. Good vs. Evil. Wilbur was more a potential victim for the greater good of supper.

I don't just watch happy ending type movies or expect them in books either but, by and large, this genre usually brings the hero into the greatest danger or test possible and allows him to triumph.

Of course JKR could be a newer breed of fantasy writer who would prefer to make the point that good doesn't always triumph. After all Harry is her "child" I suppose she can kill him off if she chooses to. I would be very disappointed though and so would thousands of her readers.

But then we would be able to debate why she did it for the next ten years wouldn't we? So mugglenet would always be here and we would never be lonely. :lol:

eviljim13

March 11th, 2007, 4:06 am

Jo herself is on the record as claiming that death is not the worst thing that can happen to you-destroying your soul to AVOID death is!!!!!!
So if Harry has to die to destroy EVIL we will get it and understand:p
That being said,all Jo has to do to maintain a degree of tension is to keep Harry's ultimate fate up in the air-continue to put him in Deathly situations-but ultimately NOT kill him,and when he is supreme over Voldemort-we will gasp at the "odds" involved but be satisfied that Harry has faced down death so many times that his win is well deserved:rockon:

hagrids_wench

March 11th, 2007, 4:30 am

That being said,all Jo has to do to maintain a degree of tension is to keep Harry's ultimate fate up in the air-continue to put him in Deathly situations-but ultimately NOT kill him,and when he is supreme over Voldemort-we will gasp at the "odds" involved but be satisfied that Harry has faced down death so many times that his win is well deserved:rockon:

My point exactly and I have said much the same thing in other threads. And why would she not keep us in suspense? Great marketing.

And his win is well deserved.

naikuria

March 11th, 2007, 9:47 am

I think harry's death was forshadowed in POA,

"'Never forget that when thirteen dine together, the first to rise will be the first to die!'"

and

"What? said Harry, scrambling to his feet"

Note these quotes are not close to each other. The second one just shows that Harry was the first one to rise from the table where they were eating.

LikeLuna

March 11th, 2007, 2:54 pm

Spritey

March 11th, 2007, 10:20 pm

:lol: I am not sure if you are agreeing or disagreeing with me...

S'alright, I confuse myself a lot, too :D

Of course JKR could be a newer breed of fantasy writer who would prefer to make the point that good doesn't always triumph. After all Harry is her "child" I suppose she can kill him off if she chooses to. I would be very disappointed though and so would thousands of her readers.

But then we would be able to debate why she did it for the next ten years wouldn't we? So mugglenet would always be here and we would never be lonely. :lol:

Well, don't get me wrong, I think Harry will win... I just think he may die doing it. I agree with eviljim; one of the big differences between Harry and Voldemort is that Harry isn't afraid to die, whereas Voldemort is so terrified that he would ruin his soul to avoid it. However, I think the twist may be that (as ComicBookWorm said in this thread (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=97473)) Harry will be able to come back.

And this is one thing we keep coming back to... I've never gotten the impression that the majority of people who think Harry will die actually want Voldemort to win. I guess I'm thinking that death =/= failure is the point we need to consider.

hagrids_wench

March 11th, 2007, 11:06 pm

S'alright, I confuse myself a lot, too :D

Well, don't get me wrong, I think Harry will win... I just think he may die doing it. I agree with eviljim; one of the big differences between Harry and Voldemort is that Harry isn't afraid to die, whereas Voldemort is so terrified that he would ruin his soul to avoid it. However, I think the twist may be that (as ComicBookWorm said in this thread (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=97473)) Harry will be able to come back.

And this is one thing we keep coming back to... I've never gotten the impression that the majority of people who think Harry will die actually want Voldemort to win. I guess I'm thinking that death =/= failure is the point we need to consider.

comicbookworm said..
I think Harry will travel beyond the veil, but will not stay. In fact, I think he'll either pull or inadvertently push Voldemort in with him. He'll get to say goodbye to Dumbledore and Sirius and meet his parents. But then something will pull him back. That may be where love for Ginny (and his friends) comes in. This may be where the mirror comes in handy since his friends might call to him.

Since many heroic tales feature travel to the netherworld, it would be fitting. I think this trip will have more in common with Campbell's Hero's Journey than any one tale. In other words it will be more generic than specific.

This is exactly what I envision for Harry. I don't think that anyone wants Voldemort to win (well there are some screwy people out there) I think it is more that they seem to miss the fact that maybe he will go through the veil and still be able to return.

And I do think that the love of people for Harry on either side of the veil and his love for them may be the final magick. Love walks through fire and I feel that is what Harry has been doing for 6 books...the firewalk in the final book will pay for all. I believe he will survive.

Maybe the final sentence in the book that "may" include the last word as "scar" will read something like this ...."as the breeze blew Harry's unruly hair back from his brow those with him at the end saw that there was no longer any scar..."

The End. :lol:

Wright1771

March 12th, 2007, 9:48 am

dubbleB

March 12th, 2007, 2:27 pm

I hope so, otherwise all my theories go down the tube!
Harry will die in the final battle with The Dark Lord! He won't kill Voldemort, his friends will... seeing Harry dead, they will destroy him.
Don't forget, 'Love will destroy Voldemort!'

So you're saying
A) Harrys love won't suffice to kill Voldemort
B) The prophecy is rubbish (or maybe even a red herring)
C) After all this adventures and all that running up towards the final battle between Harry and Voldemort we'll leave Harry's point of view ,go the point of view of -insert name here- and have the final battle between Voldemort and -insert name here- instead

I just can't picture me reaching the last chapter thinking "This is it the final battle between Voldemort and Ha... nope not Harry ,he's already dead ,shame really I actually tought he was the hero of the series but aperently its all about -again insert name here-

Wandhappy

March 12th, 2007, 4:58 pm

So you're saying
A) Harrys love won't suffice to kill Voldemort
B) The prophecy is rubbish (or maybe even a red herring)
C) After all this adventures and all that running up towards the final battle between Harry and Voldemort we'll leave Harry's point of view ,go the point of view of -insert name here- and have the final battle between Voldemort and -insert name here- instead

I just can't picture me reaching the last chapter thinking "This is it the final battle between Voldemort and Ha... nope not Harry ,he's already dead ,shame really I actually tought he was the hero of the series but aperently its all about -again insert name here-

HAHAHAHA
thata funny
I thought what would be really bad as the end of the book would be
And eleven year old harry woke up from his very long dream....

i loved the -insert name here-

Lord_Kaine

March 12th, 2007, 5:21 pm

__JMar__

March 12th, 2007, 6:28 pm

Originally posted by Lord Kaine
I still don't think Harry fears death, and I think he sees it as a small prize to pay if he can bring Voldemort down and save his friends. He would rather die himself than having to watch anyone of the others fall because of him.

I definitely agree with that, Harry definitely doesn't fear death as Voldemort does, and I think that's one of the greater advantages he will have in the last battle. Sadly, death or serious injury seems inevitable for Harry...it definitely seems like the best way to end the series. Not best as in everyone will be happy about it, but...the most satisfying way I guess? I'm not really sure what I'm trying to say there. It sounded logical in my head. :shrug:

dubbleB

March 12th, 2007, 7:45 pm

Well, the most sensible idea would be that Harry should survive, but unless he learns to battle (since he is actually planning on bringing down both LV and Snape), I would say the chance of him dying is 80%. When DH comes out, I will read for every clue that he has improved, but I honestly don't think that he, Ron, Hermione and Ginny together can last long against LV in combat. So, unless he are saved by some ancient love connected to magic, which I actually don't hope will happen, cause then it will once again be Harry, saved by some magical means he was not aware of, and the wizard world praising him for it. No more mysterious spells that will click in, it's time for Harry to become an adult and do what he has wanted to do all the time, fight Voldemort for the sake of his friends.

I still don't think Harry fears death, and I think he sees it as a small prize to pay if he can bring Voldemort down and save his friends. He would rather die himself than having to watch anyone of the others fall because of him.

I also think Harry's magical abilities don't even reach the ankles of LV or Snape's wich is obviously demonstrated at the end of book 6. I also think Harry should've put more effort in studying during his sixt year ,if I knew I had to face LV in 2 years time I'ld make sure I'ld be as ready as I possably could . I also think Harry'll propably realise the fact he needs to study harder since he had a serious wake up call at the end of book six.
Harry's to do list
-consider to come back to hogwarts where there are wizzards(who are more acomplished than the average wizzard in their own field) who can help him become a better wizzard
- drop quiditch (waste of time)
- listen more to Hermione

snugglepot

March 12th, 2007, 11:29 pm

If Harry does die, I hope it is at the end of the Epilogue.
Something like:

"Harry became a very sucessful Auror, married Ginny, had 12 children and lived a long and happy life before finally dying at age 120.
The Wizarding World never forgot however, the story of the Boy Who Lived, the Boy Who Defeated Voldemort, the Boy with the lightening bolt scar"

MissMalfoyToYou

March 12th, 2007, 11:40 pm

Alonna

March 13th, 2007, 12:26 am

i don't think he will, simply for the fact that while these books have "grown up" the same way Harry has, they are still for children (sorta) and JKR couldn't do that to all the kids in the world who love Harry.

...i like to call that *wishful thinking* on my part. and because if only 2 people die, i don't think one of them would be Harry.

JKR didn't say that only two people would die. She said that two characters who were originally supposed to live are now going to die. The characters whose fates have been changed are probably minor ones since I cannot see JKR changing her mind about the fates of the main people like the Trio, Voldemort, and Snape. Their fates have been sealed for a long time.

I cannot see JKR simply allowing Harry to live because it might upset the readers. She planned the series out before it became popular, so it is unlikely that she ever considered how the ending would affect people when she first wrote it. She wrote the last chapter before the first book was even sold to the publisher, meaning that public opinion has no real bearing on whether Harry lives or dies.

MissMalfoyToYou

March 13th, 2007, 12:53 am

JKR didn't say that only two people would die. She said that two characters who were originally supposed to live are now going to die. The characters whose fates have been changed are probably minor ones since I cannot see JKR changing her mind about the fates of the main people like the Trio, Voldemort, and Snape. Their fates have been sealed for a long time.

I cannot see JKR simply allowing Harry to live because it might upset the readers. She planned the series out before it became popular, so it is unlikely that she ever considered how the ending would affect people when she first wrote it. She wrote the last chapter before the first book was even sold to the publisher, meaning that public opinion has no real bearing on whether Harry lives or dies.

I had thought it was said that only two characters were dying, but i could very well be mistaken. I figured she's had it all planned out, especially for her main ones, but sometimes things change. Did she really write out the chapter? I know she knew what was going to happen, but i can't see her actually having it all written out.

Spritey

March 13th, 2007, 2:12 am

I had thought it was said that only two characters were dying, but i could very well be mistaken. I figured she's had it all planned out, especially for her main ones, but sometimes things change. Did she really write out the chapter? I know she knew what was going to happen, but i can't see her actually having it all written out.

I watched it on tv, and she definitely said two more. Sorry ^_^ From Accioquote:

Jo: The final chapter is hidden away, although it has now changed very slightly. One character got a reprieve, but I have to say two die that I didn't intend to die ...

Judy: Two much loved ones?

Jo: Well, you know. A price has to be paid. We are dealing with pure evil. They don't target the extras do they? They go for the main characters, or I do.

Did I mention that Richard and Judy is the most cringeworthy show I've forced myself to watch for Harry Potter in a long time? Ouch, seriously.

This is exactly what I envision for Harry. I don't think that anyone wants Voldemort to win (well there are some screwy people out there) I think it is more that they seem to miss the fact that maybe he will go through the veil and still be able to return.

Well, there are some people who identify more with the DEs, of course. I don't get it, like, but it's their call... *frown*

MissMalfoyToYou

March 13th, 2007, 2:20 am

i have a feeling that i'm going to cry my way through the last half of this book...ohh JKR, how could you kill off so many? haha

hagrids_wench

March 13th, 2007, 3:21 am

Well, there are some people who identify more with the DEs, of course. I don't get it, like, but it's their call... *frown*

I don't get that either Spritey. There just seems to be something inherently wrong with that. Creepy. :err:

patricksvd

March 13th, 2007, 9:27 am

I've somehow got the feeling that Harry has to sacrifice himself in order to kill Voldemort. Voldemort just seems way too powerful and evil that Harry can kill him and make a full recovery just like that, regardless how Harry will kill him. It's a similar situation to something that happened in the Japanese anime "Naruto". In order to defeat Kyuubi (the most powerful being in the Naruto universe) and ensure the safety of his village, its head (the Fourth Hokage) sacrificed himself. I don't think the price Harry and the wizarding world will have to pay for Voldemort's death will only be the lives of some of Harry's friends amongst many other wizards and witches, but perhaps also his own life.

If his scar indeed is a Horcrux and I believe it is, I doubt he will survive the final fight will Voldemort. If Harry indeed sacrificed himself and got rid of the final Horcrux this way, there would be not a chance in the world Voldemort would survive this. It's just not possible that Harry dies and Voldemort lives on. The prophecy said that neither can live while the other survives, but it didn't say that one of them would definitely survive. Sacrificing himself to defeat the evil forces and safe the wizarding world would be an extremely heroic and noble thing to do. I also don't think that Harry could live on happily after having gotten his revenge, but this also depends on whether his closest friends survive. Death also doesn't seem like the completely wrong destiny for Harry, he would be reunited with his parents and Sirius again (as he thought in the MoM when Voldemort possessed him). I really hope he doesn't die, but I think his death might be necessary to defeat Voldemort. That's not exactly what we want a happy ending to look like though, is it?

:agree: that really makes sense... i for one really hope rowling would not get into killing Harry in the end, but i guess that final twist in the end of the series would be true to Harry's character as a real noble hero (besides, i dont think my hopes for the story counts a lot) :sigh: ... Sacrificing himself for others' sake would make a lot of sense...:upset:

So you're saying
A) Harrys love won't suffice to kill Voldemort
B) The prophecy is rubbish (or maybe even a red herring)
C) After all this adventures and all that running up towards the final battle between Harry and Voldemort we'll leave Harry's point of view ,go the point of view of -insert name here- and have the final battle between Voldemort and -insert name here- instead

I just can't picture me reaching the last chapter thinking "This is it the final battle between Voldemort and Ha... nope not Harry ,he's already dead ,shame really I actually tought he was the hero of the series but aperently its all about -again insert name here-

yah, that was really a weird way of ending the series...:td:

So you're saying
A) Harrys love won't suffice to kill Voldemort
B) The prophecy is rubbish (or maybe even a red herring)
C) After all this adventures and all that running up towards the final battle between Harry and Voldemort we'll leave Harry's point of view ,go the point of view of -insert name here- and have the final battle between Voldemort and -insert name here- instead

I just can't picture me reaching the last chapter thinking "This is it the final battle between Voldemort and Ha... nope not Harry ,he's already dead ,shame really I actually tought he was the hero of the series but aperently its all about -again insert name here-

yeah, that would really be a weird way of ending the series...:td:

darthrose

March 13th, 2007, 9:52 am

__JMar__

March 13th, 2007, 2:01 pm

Well I'm not sure how I feel about the whole
HP relates to LOTR in a lot of ways
I do like them both separately but I guess you're kind of right. They are prety similar in the whole adventure-that-will-probably-kill-the-main-character-inevitable-sad-ending kind of way.

Even if Harry is able to defeat Voldemort without dying, there's no way things are going to go back to normal with him. I was kind of thinking about that before...like, OK so Harry defeats Voldemort and everything is great now? It just seems highly unlikely that Harry will ever get some peace that way, which adds to another reason why he might die. If he dies, maybe he'll finally get some peace. :shrug:

I'm still not sure if that makes sense, it's pretty early over here...my train of thought=not functioning too well. :hmm:

dubbleB

March 13th, 2007, 2:52 pm

This is something that's been on my mind while reading this thread: HP relates to LOTR in a lot of ways so maybe the ending could be like the ending in LOTR? Like, Harry knows he has to go or something and so he has to say his goodbyes and it's really sad, but happy at the same time because he'll finally be with his parents. Kind of a bittersweet ending, you know what I mean? I could see that happening. So, yes he does die, but it's going to be okay because everyone will remember his bravery and what he did and he will live on in a different way. Just a random thought I figured I'd throw out there...

yeah but none of the LOTR main characters died did they (none of the four hobits died similarity with Ron,Hermione,Harry,Ginny?) ? I think maybe book seven 'll have a bittersweet ending but it doesn't necesarilly mean someone'll have to die to achieve that affect

anabel

March 13th, 2007, 3:03 pm

If there is a parallel to LotR, then Harry, Ron and Hermione will probably be brought back from the brink of death, having been willing to sacrifice themselves to vanquish Voldemort. It's a classic storyline that I think would work very well, especially since it ties in with the theme of sacrifice started by Lily at Godric's Hollow.

__JMar__

March 13th, 2007, 3:22 pm

Ron and Hermione will probably be brought back from the brink of death, having been willing to sacrifice themselves to vanquish Voldemort. It's a classic storyline that I think would work very well, especially since it ties in with the theme of sacrifice started by Lily at Godric's Hollow.

That's a good point. It is a classic storyline, and unlike most of the other possible endings, it wouldn't seem...weird or unsatisfying. It would fit in with the heroic atmosphere of HP. :lol:

by the way...my friend who is sitting next to me wants me to tell you that she says "Hi, and that Tom Felton is hot. :clap:"
^^talk about off topic. :rolleyes:

anabel

March 13th, 2007, 4:50 pm

Hi, __JMar's__ friend! :clap: I'm not so keen on Tom Felton myself, so he's all yours!

Lord_Kaine

March 13th, 2007, 5:07 pm

I was kind of thinking about that before...like, OK so Harry defeats Voldemort and everything is great now? It just seems highly unlikely that Harry will ever get some peace that way, which adds to another reason why he might die.

A very good statement. Harry is going to have the fight of his life, and a few of his friends, as well. Unless, everyone survives in a kind of miracle-way, if he don't die, he might very well be scarred beyond healing. It's not like he can dispose of Voldemort and by that act, get rid of all those dark feelings he've been kept during the years. Much have happend to him, and I don't think it's easily cured, not even by his friends, perhaps not even Ginny.

Some scars never do heal. Harry might be in for a surprise if and when he fulfills his revenge. It's not easy to go back to happyland when you've been set on revenge for so long. And despite doing it for the good of all, Harry knows that he will either die or become a murderer.

__JMar__

March 13th, 2007, 6:52 pm

Originally Posted by anabel
Hi, __JMar's__ friend! I'm not so keen on Tom Felton myself, so he's all yours!

haha you just made her day. :)

So back to the subject...
Harry knows that he will either die or become a murderer.

That's a good point...even if Harry kills Voldemort he will have killed someone (even if it is an evil person) and no doubt that will have an effect on him. Again, things look pretty bleak for Harry, death or no death. :sad:

jaredwwe94

March 13th, 2007, 9:46 pm

I dont know who is going to die in the seventh book - though i did hear a rumor that JKR was starting some teen helpline thing, so if thats true than one of the "good" guys will probally die - it could be Harry, Hermione, Ron, Hagrid, or sombody else i dont really know

DONT SPOIL BOOK 7 OR ILL TELL VOLDEMORT WHERE YOU LIVE AND THAT YOUR IN THE ORDER:grumble:

hagrids_wench

March 14th, 2007, 12:13 am

yeah but none of the LOTR main characters died did they (none of the four hobits died similarity with Ron,Hermione,Harry,Ginny?) ? I think maybe book seven 'll have a bittersweet ending but it doesn't necesarilly mean someone'll have to die to achieve that affect

No, none of the Hobbits died and Frodo and Bilbo didn't immediately go to the Grey Havens and over the sea. That information is all in the appendices at the end of the book. With the exception of Gandalf no one in the fellowship dies...well Boromir but that was the fault of the ring and his inborn greed.

Some scars never do heal. Harry might be in for a surprise if and when he fulfills his revenge. It's not easy to go back to happyland when you've been set on revenge for so long. And despite doing it for the good of all, Harry knows that he will either die or become a murderer.

You made me think...do you suppose Harry would have sought revenge for the death of his parents or do you think that because Voldemort keeps trying to kill him the self defense is mixed up with revenge? I just wonder if Harry had gone to Hogwarts and Voldemort had left him alone what may have been different?

yeah, that would really be a weird way of ending the series...:td:

The weirdest way of ending Harry Potter would be if Dudley awoke in the middle of the night after eating too much junk food and yelled "MOM! DAD! I JUST HAD THIS REALLY WEIRD DREAM ABOUT THAT KID WE KEEP IN THE CUPBOARD UNDER THE STAIRS!"
Now THAT would be weird!:hmm:

__JMar__

March 14th, 2007, 1:31 am

You made me think...do you suppose Harry would have sought revenge for the death of his parents or do you think that because Voldemort keeps trying to kill him the self defense is mixed up with revenge? I just wonder if Harry had gone to Hogwarts and Voldemort had left him alone what may have been different?

That's definitely some food for thought...I wonder if he would have wanted revenge for his parents. Because like you said I'm sure he now feels that yes, he's after Voldemort because otherwise he would die, but there must be some revenge in there, not only for his parents but for everyone else Voldemort has killed.

I like to think that even if Voldemort hadn't pursued him, Harry would've felt compelled to do something heroic and try to save the wizarding world anyway. There would still be a chance that he would have been dragged into it not only because of his parents but because he attends Hogwarts and Hogwarts=Dumbledore=standing in the way of Voldemort's ultimate take over. lol

The weirdest way of ending Harry Potter would be if Dudley awoke in the middle of the night after eating too much junk food and yelled "MOM! DAD! I JUST HAD THIS REALLY WEIRD DREAM ABOUT THAT KID WE KEEP IN THE CUPBOARD UNDER THE STAIRS!"
Now THAT would be weird!:hmm:

:rotfl: That would be something. Thankfully, the entire HP series is a little to elaborate for a dream. :)

hagrids_wench

March 14th, 2007, 3:38 am

That's definitely some food for thought...I wonder if he would have wanted revenge for his parents. Because like you said I'm sure he now feels that yes, he's after Voldemort because otherwise he would die, but there must be some revenge in there, not only for his parents but for everyone else Voldemort has killed.

I like to think that even if Voldemort hadn't pursued him, Harry would've felt compelled to do something heroic and try to save the wizarding world anyway. There would still be a chance that he would have been dragged into it not only because of his parents but because he attends Hogwarts and Hogwarts=Dumbledore=standing in the way of Voldemort's ultimate take over. lol

:rotfl: That would be something. Thankfully, the entire HP series is a little to elaborate for a dream. :)

It makes you think doesn't it? Most people would not have an opportunity to get revenge for wrongdoings. Because Voldemort is so determined to murder Harry he has put himself front and center. I am sure that revenge has it's place now in Harry's quest...but I wonder if it will at the end?

I am reminded of what another wizard once said...Many die that deserve life and many who live deserve death...and how it comes down to the power of whether or not you can take or give life to others. I really wonder in the end how Harry will destroy Voldemort (and I have no doubt he will) and if he may have to come to mourn and love the man Voldemort could have been in order to destroy what he has become ...killing him with kindness so to speak.

I think we are probably all so far off the mark about the ending of the last book. JKR is the penultimate tease all you have to do is go to war with that website of hers to see that. She is having the time of her life, at our expense, and well deserved it is too.:lol:

dubbleB

March 14th, 2007, 11:02 am

I think Harry doesn't seek revenge he just wants all the sufering to end ,he wants to make sure his parents did'nt die for nothing . The only reason the prophecy is going to come true is because LV is so determined to act upon the prophecy and this wil logicaly turn out in a final battle where one will end up 'killing' the other . I have even a little scene in my head :Harry will lie there wandless, practicly defeaten by LV and than LV wil start telling all the horrible things he'll do to his friends and than Harry 'll proform wandless magic coming from deep within his hart ,triggered by the visualisation of his loved ones' sufering and he'll have a red(the excact oposite of green) aura existing of pure love and LV ' soul 'll leave his body agonised by the feeling of love and the evil(weaker and torn) soul wil be destroyed. LV's body'll lie there with no visible sign of a curse hitting him except that his eyes'll turn to normal (much like Avada Kedavra but powered by love rather than by hate)

This is just a bit of fanfiction but I think it would explain a lot : the power the Dark Lord knows not,the importance of Harry's eyes (the eyes are the window to the soul ),it'll also supports the theory that Harry won't commit murder because this magic would'nt work on a person whose soul is whole and untarnished whereas the Killing Curse works on both evil and innocent people and is purely designed to kill

Lord_Kaine

March 14th, 2007, 12:27 pm

It makes you think doesn't it? Most people would not have an opportunity to get revenge for wrongdoings. Because Voldemort is so determined to murder Harry he has put himself front and center. I am sure that revenge has it's place now in Harry's quest...but I wonder if it will at the end?
I agree, I think it has. Remember the conversation between Harry and Dumbledore, when Dumbledore asked him what he would have wanted to do if he hadn't heard the prophecy. Harrys thoughts went to those who had died, his parents, Sirius and Cedric, and his response was that he wanted to kill him with his own hands.

Harry might do it for other reasons as well, but the way he talks at the end of HBP, does reveal that even if he is after Voldemort for other reasons, there is still a small piece of him that wants to take revenge, on both LV and Snape.

hagrids_wench

March 14th, 2007, 1:50 pm

I have even a little scene in my head :Harry will lie there wandless, practicly defeaten by LV and than LV wil start telling all the horrible things he'll do to his friends and than Harry 'll proform wandless magic coming from deep within his hart ,triggered by the visualisation of his loved ones' sufering and he'll have a red(the excact oposite of green) aura existing of pure love and LV ' soul 'll leave his body agonised by the feeling of love and the evil(weaker and torn) soul wil be destroyed.

I can see something like this happening. It makes sense.

Harry might do it for other reasons as well, but the way he talks at the end of HBP, does reveal that even if he is after Voldemort for other reasons, there is still a small piece of him that wants to take revenge, on both LV and Snape.

I agree with this. Being "human" I do not see how you cannot want it but I agree that Harry's need for revenge is probably overshadowed and mixed in with other "purer" reasons for wanting Voldemort gone.

tmoniez

March 14th, 2007, 2:10 pm

yay! first post.

no, i don't think it would, because that would be going against the theme that good always wins. and anyway, this is a kids book, so i think it would upset them if he did die.

I totally agree with you, Jamy. Jo just doesn't seem like the kind of person to let evil prevail. There is already enough negativity in the world, and I can't see Jo adding to it. She rose from ashes herself to bring the world this amazing story which has brought a whole world community together to read, discuss and anticipate. This readership is as diverse as the UN itself, and has similar hopes for peace in the Wizarding and Muggle communities. I cannot see Jo kill off Harry, her "baby" and our hero.

AnnaSofia

March 15th, 2007, 6:32 pm

Lord_Kaine

March 15th, 2007, 6:53 pm

I think that Harry will die because is the only way to:
1. Find out about the secrets of death and what is behind the veil.
2. Learn where you go when you die.( Harry asks Nick, at the end of book 5, persistently where someone goes when is dead )
3. Learn why some people become ghosts.
4. No one else could write a book about Harry.
I agree on nr.1 and nr.2 specially. There has been alot of talks during the books about death and what happens afterwards, if you decide to move on, and not leave your imprint of a shadow behind. Harry, due to reasons we all might guess, has been very curious about this matter, and I wouldn't be that much surprised (a little shocked, perhaps), but not surprised, if he finally get his answers.

BurrowGhoul

March 15th, 2007, 7:50 pm

But Harry wasn't asking for himself. He was asking because he didn't want to lose Sirius. I don't think he is ready to follow him behind the veil yet.

Lord_Kaine

March 15th, 2007, 8:13 pm

But Harry wasn't asking for himself. He was asking because he didn't want to lose Sirius. I don't think he is ready to follow him behind the veil yet.
True, true, I'm not saying otherwise. Harry is curious due to Sirius death, and if there's any way to get him back. The point I think I'm trying to make is, that is has been many "what if" when it comes to the death subject. In book nr. 1, Harry sees his parents and relatives in the mirror, and don't want to leave them. In book 3, he has thoughts (if only for a heartbeat) about not being able to hear the echoes of his parents if he learns a Patronus. In book 4, he meets the shadows of Cedric, Frank Bryce, Bertha and his parents. In book 5, Sirius dies, causing Harry to question Nick about ghosts and the afterlife. In book 6, Harry now mourns DD's death, and seems to come to the final conclusion about it. While he, like any other, mourns those who are gone, we don't get to know what he thinks about it, except that he don't fear it, unlike Voldemort, and that's the reason I think Harry might die, he isn't going to hide behind someone else and let them go down instead of him. Harry and his close encounters with death has always been about "the next adventure" and "moving on". Is this a foreshadowing, or just Dumbledore and Nicks viewpoints?

AnnaSofia

March 15th, 2007, 8:36 pm

I totally agree with you Lord_Kaine. I believe that behind the veil or lets say at the other side are people who are dead. Couldn't be that place something like paradise? But in wizarding world that place couldn't be known as Deathly Hallow's?

aprilpotter

March 16th, 2007, 4:52 am

I don't believe he will, despite the grim title of the book. A death would be so..devastating to the series readers and kind of anti-climatic. If Harry died, there would just be an empty feeling at the end.

Spritey

March 16th, 2007, 5:30 am

aprilpotter

March 16th, 2007, 7:59 am

^ You're being a bit optimistic, aren't you? There's going to be an empty feeling however she ends it :) Cookie dough ice cream for all, you know?

Anyway, I agree with AnnaSofia and Lord_Kaine, but I think he'll come back afterwards.

Well yeah, haha. But optimism is what motivates us all to keep going :) Wow that was deep. But anyway, I'll feel empty no matter what, but if Harry died, it would just be...I don't even know how to explain it! :no:

AnnaSofia

March 16th, 2007, 11:37 am

^ You're being a bit optimistic, aren't you? There's going to be an empty feeling however she ends it :) Cookie dough ice cream for all, you know?

Anyway, I agree with AnnaSofia and Lord_Kaine, but I think he'll come back afterwards.

Well I don't think he'll come back. JR said, at Radio City Music Hall of NY on Augoust 2006, that "some people will loathe it and some people will love it, but that's how it should be".
I think by that she mean that Harry will die but afterwards he'll meet all the persons who loved and are dead. So he will be happy because they will be altogether. That's why some of us will loathe it and some will love it.

Spritey

March 16th, 2007, 1:38 pm

Well I don't think he'll come back. JR said, at Radio City Music Hall of NY on Augoust 2006, that "some people will loathe it and some people will love it, but that's how it should be".
I think by that she mean that Harry will die but afterwards he'll meet all the persons who loved and are dead. So he will be happy because they will be altogether. That's why some of us will loathe it and some will love it.

I'm pretty sure "some people will loathe it" could apply to anything Jo writes - she knows (to an extent) how invested we get in things like 'shipping, theories, etc. Book 7 is going to crash a lot of things forever - I can think of about 10 things (just off the top of my head) that're gonna 'cause drama, whichever way the books go. I just hope she still has that fake goatee saved from the Mark Evans fiasco ^_^

However, seeing your point, maybe it could be the opposite? Harry dying, seeing his parents, then coming back will probably 'cause a few heads to go splodey. "OMG THAT'S SO CRUEL!!" and all? Or maybe even, "OMG BUT YOU SAID PEOPLE CAN'T COME BACK!"?

AnnaSofia

March 16th, 2007, 1:57 pm

I'm pretty sure "some people will loathe it" could apply to anything Jo writes - she knows (to an extent) how invested we get in things like 'shipping, theories, etc. Book 7 is going to crash a lot of things forever - I can think of about 10 things (just off the top of my head) that're gonna 'cause drama, whichever way the books go. I just hope she still has that fake goatee saved from the Mark Evans fiasco ^_^

However, seeing your point, maybe it could be the opposite? Harry dying, seeing his parents, then coming back will probably 'cause a few heads to go splodey. "OMG THAT'S SO CRUEL!!" and all? Or maybe even, "OMG BUT YOU SAID PEOPLE CAN'T COME BACK!"?

But if Harry will live what would be the meaning of his life if Ron or Hermione or both of them are dead? He'll be alone for the rest of his life and will feel guilty. Though he might kill LV i think that DEs will never leave Harry in peace until they kill him. Is that life?

Trigunmax

March 17th, 2007, 7:12 am

Let me start off by saying since the very beginning I've always believed Harry was going to die and nothing changed my mind EXCEPT now I think diffrent. I have only read the first book once (because my sister got mad a destoryed it years ago and i was to lazy to get a new one) well I bought a new one reread it and saw something that changed my mind about Harry's doom.

In chapter 16 page 263 right away in the first sentance it says this--

"In years to come, Harry would never quite remember how he had managed to get through his exams when he half expected Voldemort to come bursting through the door at any moment"

Now 'years to come" is the main thing there, you could argue that his third,fourth,fifth,sixth (and of course seventh if he returns) year at hogwarts is years to come (second wouldnt be yearS it would be year so thats out) so that might be when he's remembering

But lets look at it really-- obvisouly he's remembering being afraid of LV popping into his classroon to kill him in his first year but he is also afraid of it during all the other school years. (having DD around helps but still, id be afraid)

now to me it seems at the time he's remembering this its years later looking back at his life in amasment at the fact he got through exams. Usaually you dont look back on your life like this untill many years after it happened not only a few, expecally while your still in school still afraid of the same thing. It also to me seems like he's not afraid of LV showing up anymore at least thats what I got when I read that.

Of course this doesnt 100% mean its 'years' later and 'harry lived LV died yahoo'! but it seems that way to me,

of course I could be wrong and he could just be sitting at the great hall eating in his so-and-so year and looking back at his first but it seems unlikly

--I'm sorry if someone has already said this or something but I'm to lazy to look through this entire thread ...but if someone has then I'm sorry for seamingly coping you (although im not :no: ) and I agree with you on this :lol:

And of course JK coulda done this then thinking he'd live and this would slightly help forshadow it then change her mind and plan his death...

Let me also say that relization hit me this morning...this is the LAST book comming out...i mean i knew it was but it never really hit me untill now...i know im a little slow on the uptake :err:

hagrids_wench

March 17th, 2007, 12:46 pm

But if Harry will live what would be the meaning of his life if Ron or Hermione or both of them are dead? He'll be alone for the rest of his life and will feel guilty. Though he might kill LV i think that DEs will never leave Harry in peace until they kill him. Is that life?

Even though I can understand a little where you are coming from it is as though you feel if we lose someone our lives no longer have any purpose. I lost a very dear friend in February he was the victim of a drunk driver. We are all devastated and angry but our lives still have meaning. Perhaps even more than formerly.

I do not see Harry being alone for the rest of his life. That is like saying he has no ability to make a friend outside of Ron and Hermione or that he cannot fall in love and raise a family or that no one else cares about him. He may feel guilty but I think his character is such that he would realize that whatever his friends did or stood for, that may have brought about their death, that it was a matter of their personal principles not just throwing themselves in front of Harry to save him, so to speak.

I have wondered about the Death Eaters also. I think that with the demise of Voldemort they will no longer be running around trying to do his bidding. Usually when the head honcho is destroyed his followers can only pick up the pieces of their lives and try to cover their butts.:lol:

anabel

March 17th, 2007, 2:31 pm

I have wondered about the Death Eaters also. I think that with the demise of Voldemort they will no longer be running around trying to do his bidding. Usually when the head honcho is destroyed his followers can only pick up the pieces of their lives and try to cover their butts.

Pretty much last last time Voldemort disappeared. :agree: Only a few of the more deranged DEs actually looked for him. Most of them pretended they'd been Imperioed and carried on with their lives. MacNair even got a job working for the Ministry!

hagrids_wench

March 17th, 2007, 4:03 pm

Pretty much last last time Voldemort disappeared. :agree: Only a few of the more deranged DEs actually looked for him. Most of them pretended they'd been Imperioed and carried on with their lives. MacNair even got a job working for the Ministry!

That's what I feel too. If he is utterly destroyed what on earth would be the point of a vendetta? Unless of course there is another powerful wizard that can take his place as the new bad guy on the block. And then what would be the point of the series?

"Today Lord Voldemort was utterly destroyed taking Harry Potter and all of Hogwarts with him. But don't despair folks Lucius Malfoy:evil: is ready and able to fill his dastardly shoes" :lol:

Yeah. I am thinking that Lucius and his buddies will be smiling big :D and covering their butts.

Wish JKR would write an "after the end of Voldemort" book. :no:

eviljim13

March 18th, 2007, 1:33 am

Mr_Watson

March 18th, 2007, 2:08 am

Having established Harry as not fearing death,and also Voldemort as the opposite,I can accept Harry dieing in the ultimate quest for the vangquished Dark Lord-but NO!!!!Harry is given to us right from the get go as the "boy who lived"I don't beleive he is destined to be the boy who died after being the boy who lived-that wouldn't make any sense!I agree that having Harry live would be more traditional than having Harry die wich however it played out would be kind of post modern and radicle or whatever-but I don't think so.Harry will be challenged like never before-come face to face with death once ajain-spit in its face and LIVE!

That would basically mean that he can live forever. Because he's the boy that lived, so he can't possibly die. The boy who lived is just a phrase, or whatever, that people used to describe Harry after Voldy's downfall. Not because he'll live forever, but because he was hit by Avada Kedavra and lived.

eviljim13

March 18th, 2007, 3:34 am

Lord_Kaine

March 18th, 2007, 11:28 am

Yes of course you are right:err:
I only meant within the context of book 7 I am saying only that "the boy who lived" will continue to do so at the end of "Deathly Hallows" but not forever!!!!Of course Harry Potter will die,some day:lol:
I always find that a little odd, since "lived" is a word used to describe something in the past, even if it concerns someone who still lives today. I guess it's because "the boy who lived" sounds somewhat better than "the boy who lives" or "the boy who is alive". :lol:

Harry might survive LV's (but who will die instead of him, then?) wrath, unlikely as it might be. But he could just as well die, no matter how many reasons he has to stay alive, no matter how much he have already suffered. "The boy who lived" will surely be a legend, even more so if he vanquish Voldemort and dies in the process. And if he survived, would they EVER leave him alone?

Killing Voldemort and stay alive, they would practically view him as a half-god after that, considering how they reacted to him in PS. He would have to resort to hiding forever, Ginny doing the grocery store visits for him (and hexing fangirls in front of the house). His kids would be constantly targeted by everyone who wants a piece of the famous Potter. Yikes..

Venom3384

March 18th, 2007, 11:31 am

Hermione_Potter

March 18th, 2007, 1:14 pm

I hope that he doesn't. It will be devastating if he does.

hagrids_wench

March 18th, 2007, 2:23 pm

I always figured that by book 7 the narrative will have caught up with the timeline. That is to say that it ends in the present with nothing of the future known which isn't always the case in the other books. Additionally, I always figured JK would kill HP if only so nobody else bothers her for permission to write HP stories.

I think any requests of that nature would come to her agents. They would already know the answer so I don't see JKR being bothered personally by them. Of course, Fan mail is Fan mail so you never know. Actually they usually have a secretaries for that too.
"Throw it in the trash Sophie no one is writing about Harry but me" :tu:

Yes of course you are right:err:
I only meant within the context of book 7 I am saying only that "the boy who lived" will continue to do so at the end of "Deathly Hallows" but not forever!!!!Of course Harry Potter will die,some day:lol:

:lol: I thought that was probably what you meant. I don't think anyone thinks Harry will never die of old age. :lol:

Off topic a little....
There was mention made in a thread here that JKR had said that there were foreshadowings in PoA (?????) that really resonated with her because they were things that were going to happen (???) in the final book? I cannot find the thread and the poster had posted her interview comments. Does anyone know where it is...I have given up on this search engine..:grumble:
ALSO has anyone being re-watching the movie for this reason? I did last night and I thought I picked up on two or three things that really are fitting in with this thread and others concerning powers,friends,and death. I need to look through those sections of the book to see if the things said were in fact written there. If anyone else has done this I would like some input.
If anyone can help I would really appreciate it.
thanks
H. Wench

dumbledoreshous

March 18th, 2007, 2:32 pm

I think Harry will PROBABLY die in the Deathly Hallows as otherwise I think JK would continue writing the books if he stayed alive.
Plus It is his desting to take Voldemort and lots of Death Eaters down with him!

lsblack8

March 18th, 2007, 4:26 pm

AL_Patterson

March 18th, 2007, 9:30 pm

So many people will be in an uproar if this happens...

Venom3384

March 18th, 2007, 9:40 pm

So many people will be in an uproar if this happens...

I feel like there will be plenty of reasons for people to be in an uproar no matter what happens. If he lives everyone will want to know what happens next.

LikeLuna

March 19th, 2007, 12:41 am

Harry very well might die, but I don't think JKR decided not to continue writing because he died. This book is then unfortunately the end, and I'm sure there's other reasons she's ending with seven other than the possible reason of Harry's death.

Yeah, she has to end it somewhere, otherwise the plots of the books will go downhill and the whole series would lose its meaning.

anabel

March 19th, 2007, 12:00 pm

Yeah, she has to end it somewhere, otherwise the plots of the books will go downhill and the whole series would lose its meaning.

"And they all lived happily ever after" has been a satisfactory ending to loads of good stories. Why not to this one?

__JMar__

March 19th, 2007, 1:59 pm

"And they all lived happily ever after" has been a satisfactory ending to loads of good stories. Why not to this one?

I would say that it almost seems too...unbelieveable I guess? I still say it's highly unlikely that everything will go back to being happy, if you could ever really call it happy in the first place.

Venom3384

March 19th, 2007, 4:02 pm

I would say that it almost seems too...unbelieveable I guess? I still say it's highly unlikely that everything will go back to being happy, if you could ever really call it happy in the first place.

Yeah, I agree. To just say "Happily ever after" would kinda demean all the strugge the characters went through throughout the series.

Lord_Kaine

March 19th, 2007, 5:02 pm

Yeah, I agree. To just say "Happily ever after" would kinda demean all the strugge the characters went through throughout the series.
Yeah, I agree. I think, that even if Harry and c:o should survive (which I would find unrealistic, but then again, it's a book about magic), there should be some kind of serious aftermath, where the remaining pieces will be gathered as best as they are able. If there are losses (which JKR said it was), then there will be grieving, and some people might never get out of it. (I know, I sound depressing)

__JMar__

March 19th, 2007, 5:16 pm

Exactly. If it were a "happily ever after" ending, what would be the point of all the struggles? I know I would definitely be a disappointed if Jo ended it in an anticlimactic way. :agree:

Venom3384

March 19th, 2007, 10:36 pm

Yeah, so as depressing as a "sad" ending might be, it's still more realistic considering the type of story this seems like it's going to be.

anabel

March 19th, 2007, 10:40 pm

Exactly. If it were a "happily ever after" ending, what would be the point of all the struggles? I know I would definitely be a disappointed if Jo ended it in an anticlimactic way.

But surely the whole point of ridding the world of the most evil wizard of all time, is to provide a happy ending?!? I don't see why success would diminish their achievements!!!

Venom3384

March 19th, 2007, 10:49 pm

But surely the whole point of ridding the world of the most evil wizard of all time, is to provide a happy ending?!? I don't see why success would diminish their achievements!!!

I mean, achievement is always great, but there is always the question of what did we lose for this victory? Or at what cost? And that would be sad.
I mean yeah, everybody will probably be celebrating, but whoever survives of the trio will definitely be mourning. Probably for a while since whoever died almost certainly gave their life for them.

AL_Patterson

March 20th, 2007, 12:29 am

By the way some of you are talking, it sounds like you'd rather Jo end the book with the entire wizarding world imploding....

hagrids_wench

March 20th, 2007, 12:46 am

"And they all lived happily ever after" has been a satisfactory ending to loads of good stories. Why not to this one?

But surely the whole point of ridding the world of the most evil wizard of all time, is to provide a happy ending?!? I don't see why success would diminish their achievements!!!

I have to agree with you anabel. And I also have to wonder if the world at large has become so cynical and pessimistic not to mention morbid that the only way anything can end is sadly. Oh yes, there will be victory but apparently to many the only way the victory is a good one is if Harry or one of the trio dies in bringing it about. Honestly if any of those characters die isn't that a small victory for Voldemort and his Death Eaters? I am not saying it couldn't happen it is after all JKRs book. She can do as she pleases...
It is as though some people want that type of ending and will not be happy if it ends any other way.

Whether anyone remembers it or not (sometimes I don't myself) these started out as books for young people. Or at least the young as opposed to a larger audience of adults.Maybe JKR has left the path that she began on and I know there have been one or two quotes (later in the series) that indicated that she wasn't writing exclusively for children. Well children were the first audience and that is fact. There weren't many adults running out to by their own copy at that time. Vicarious involvement through reading to their kids or being curious as to what the furor was about Harry Potter.:grumble:

I cannot believe that the author has anything to gain by ending his "life" with the last book and it would disappoint so many people...most of which are youngsters. What would be the point...because adults and older young adults are being philosopical about why Harry should die/live? Why would she hurt ardent young fans? As an author I do not think I would want that type of notoriety. It doesn't make sense.

So I agree with you anabel...what is wrong with victory and a happy ending for the trio?
It has been successful for centuries and if I want to read novels that have morbid endings there are plenty out there. I think it would be a disgusting end to what has been a completely enjoyable series of books.

Venom3384

March 20th, 2007, 6:26 am

By the way some of you are talking, it sounds like you'd rather Jo end the book with the entire wizarding world imploding....

Ok...a little extreme. But let's be realistic, what 5 members of the Order and 3 just grown wizards, maybe a couple of parents and their friends vs the most powerful dark wizard of all time and his Death Eaters...and nobody dies? I just wouldn't see that as realistic regardless of who I want to see alive at the end.

__JMar__

March 20th, 2007, 12:35 pm

So I agree with you anabel...what is wrong with victory and a happy ending for the trio?
It has been successful for centuries and if I want to read novels that have morbid endings there are plenty out there. I think it would be a disgusting end to what has been a completely enjoyable series of books.

Don't get me wrong, I would really like the ending to be happy, but it just seems highly unlikely. Granted, the books were originally intended for children and young adults, but that doesn't mean that the ending has to be incredibly happy. I just don't see how after everything we've read, the ending can come out to read as a "happily ever after". :no: I'm not just saying in a literal way either, Harry might live, but that doesn't mean everyone will be happy. They'll definitely be scarred for life, and that alone will be enough to make the ending sad.

TimeMachine

March 20th, 2007, 7:01 pm

I tend to agree with those that say that an easy "happily ever after" would somehow demean all their struggle so far. One of the huge messages in the books has been the choice between what is right and what is easy, and the value of self sacrifice. I mean, if you think about it, the entire reason we have a story at all is because of the death of Harry's parents, and their sacrifice for him. This series starts with a noble death. I think it would entirely appropiate to end it that way. I mean, isn't that the point? To show to these "young ones" that there are things worth fighting, and even dying, for? Throughout the series we have given a picture of death as not something to be afraid of, but rather something to be ready for, and I think that can be a very beautiful and powerful message in a society that is so selfishly focused on self-preservation and self-gain at the expense of others.

Spritey

March 20th, 2007, 7:03 pm

I have to agree with you anabel. And I also have to wonder if the world at large has become so cynical and pessimistic not to mention morbid that the only way anything can end is sadly. Oh yes, there will be victory but apparently to many the only way the victory is a good one is if Harry or one of the trio dies in bringing it about. Honestly if any of those characters die isn't that a small victory for Voldemort and his Death Eaters? I am not saying it couldn't happen it is after all JKRs book. She can do as she pleases...
It is as though some people want that type of ending and will not be happy if it ends any other way.

It's not cynical, I don't think. It's what sets them apart from Voldemort - their willingness to risk it all for people they love. That's a positive message for me, especially combined with what Luna said in OotP (about the Veil and what lies beyond it and all.)

Plus, I don't like the idea that dying = failing. We all die, does that mean we failed? I don't think so.

Venom3384

March 20th, 2007, 8:10 pm

Mr_Watson

March 20th, 2007, 8:29 pm

Plus, I don't like the idea that dying = failing. We all die, does that mean we failed? I don't think so.

I agree with that. And by the way, I think we actually fail if we don't do anything that matters in our life... If we just live and die, and do nothing of importance, we failed, we didn't accomplish anything, we didn't use wisely the life that was given to us... But if we die for a righteous cause, to help someone else, or to help the world in general, we accomplished something, we didn't just waste our life on nothing...

anabel

March 20th, 2007, 10:20 pm

I want to share a piece of wisdom from my then 7 year old child, when we first read the books together. I'd warned her that she might find them scary, but her reaction was very clear: "Mummy, you said Harry Potter was scary, but it's not - it's funny!" And it is! Despite their darkness, these books are full of humour, not tragedy! And they always end on a light note.

Harry's isn't allowed to do magic in the holidays, but the Dursleys don't know that, do they! :eyebrows:

"Proud?" said Harry. "Are you mad? All those times I could have died and I didn't manage it? They'll be furious ..."
And together they walked back through the gateway to the Muggle world.

"Godfather?" spluttered Uncle Vernon. "You haven't got a godfather!"
"Yes, I have," said Harry brightly. He was my mum and dad's best friend. He's a convicted murderer, but he's broken out of wizard prison and he's on the run. He likes to keep in touch with me, though ... keep up with my news ... check I'm happy ..."
And grinning broadly at the look of horror on Uncle Vernon's face, Harry set off towards the station exit, Hedwig ratting along in front of him, for what looked like a much better summer than the last.

Harry gives Fred and George his prize money to open a joke shop.

Instead, he smiled, raised a hand in farewell, turned around and led the way out of the station towards the sunlit street, with Uncle Vernon, Aunt Petunia and Dudley hurrying along in his wake.

he felt his heart lift at the thought that there was still one last golden day of peace left to enjoy with Ron and Hermione.

As you see, every book ends on a positive note, often a very funny one, despite the bad things that have happened.