Found in Translation - Part One

This is to discuss the editorial Found in Translation - Part One: An Illustrated Menu (http://www.mugglenet.com/editorials/editorials/edit-FischerR03.shtml) by Robbie Fischer.

Wow! What an interesting and original editorial. I'm from England but I didn't even know what some of those foods were.
I cannot believe you don't have bacon or wine gums in America -- you poor guys! :lol:

Very well written editorial and great fun to read! :clap: I look forwards to reading part two!

A interesing read. :relax: Imagining myself as a yank and not knowing all these kinds of food was most facinating. I doubt that I would be able to relate to the books and enjoy them as much as an American which surprised me considering the number of American followers. Perhaps if they all were Brits they would be even more crazier about the books :shrug:

whoah, that's my kind of Harry Potter research!!! And it was quite interesting as well. And it was very helpful of you to have pictures next to the descriptions. This was a very thorough and appetizing article, and now you've made me hungry!! What I wouldn't give for a treacle tart right now...

I am an American, and found this editorial very interesting. I disagree with Boromir, however. I think an American reader can enjoy the books just as much as a Brit. While we may not have as much to relate to, think of how much we have to learn about another culture. I for one have become fascinated with Brittish culture partly as a result of Harry Potter, (and partly out of frustration towards American culture). Either way, nice editorial, I look forward to part 2.

I think this editorial is a nice change of pace from the editorials that are normally found here. Now that you've tackled the food, are you considering having a stab at another subject ("translating" things like "dustbins", for example)? F.Y.I. WandaXmaximof, we do indeed have bacon in the United States. However, we normally do not refer to it as a rasher.

Robbie, Thanks so much for the editorial and the research. :clap: Good information. :tu: You always seem to do good stuff. :cool:

Gratefully,

Refreshing!

I am neither British nor American, but coming from Europe, and having travelled quite a bit, I never had problems following JKR's food list.

I had not realised until now that Americans faces so many challenges with the food! No wonder that when I prepare a cake for my neighbour here (USA) he says he is not a fan of whipped cream, and is puzzled that I brought a ... pie (which is certainly not what I'd call my cake!)

Haha! very funny editorial! It is almost lunchtime in New York, and I am HUNGRYYYYYYY !
Haaaaa, bacon, chipolatas, dessert... I am looking forward for part 2!

Now this is a good editorial! Wonderful subject and very informative.

You liken pumpkin pasties to calazone because very few Americans know what a pastie is but here's another way to think about it. It's probably like a pastie with pumpkin pie filling in it. The good news is that you don't have to go to Britain (specifically Scotland) to try pasties. You can find a variety of these in Northern Michigan where Scottish immigrant heritage is strong. Although I've never seen a pastie made with pumpkin in da UP, I'll bet it would be good.

What I'm confused about is butterbeer. What is this? Is it like Ginger-ale or Vernor's? Is it like tonic water? I suppose it could be a non-alcoholic malt beverage like O'Doul's or a watered down 3.2 beer, but I don't see much point to those products anyway.

Pumpkin juice is another mystery. Pumpkin is a form of squash, it's not very juicy. Pumpkin isn't even all that tasty. Pumpkin pie wouldn't be all that good without the ginger, nutmeg, sugar etc. I might be more willing to try one of those Bertie Bott's Every Flavor Jelly Beans before pumpkin juice, at least some of the Jelly Beans have nice flavors.

Now this is a good editorial! Wonderful subject and very informative.

You liken pumpkin pasties to calazone because very few Americans know what a pastie is but here's another way to think about it. It's probably like a pastie with pumpkin pie filling in it. The good news is that you don't have to go to Britain (specifically Scotland) to try pasties. You can find a variety of these in Northern Michigan where Scottish immigrant heritage is strong. Although I've never seen a pastie made with pumpkin in da UP, I'll bet it would be good.

What I'm confused about is butterbeer. What is this? Is it like Ginger-ale or Vernor's? Is it like tonic water? I suppose it could be a non-alcoholic malt beverage like O'Doul's or a watered down 3.2 beer, but I don't see much point to those products anyway.

Pumpkin juice is another mystery. Pumpkin is a form of squash, it's not very juicy. Pumpkin isn't even all that tasty. Pumpkin pie wouldn't be all that good without the ginger, nutmeg, sugar etc. I might be more willing to try one of those Bertie Bott's Every Flavor Jelly Beans before pumpkin juice, at least some of the Jelly Beans have nice flavors.

I may be completely wrong, but i'm sure butterbeer and pumpkin juice are wizarding things and not British, if that was what you were suggesting King?

Butterbeer is a wizarding drink, but Pumpkin juice is concievable.

Great editorial! Now I'm hungrier than I was before.

I would have liked to see you include some of the food Hagrid serves because it is usually used in comical ways and is dangerous to the teeth and stomach. What exactly is treacle fudge and a stoat sandwich?

What a great idea this was! It was so much fun to read! I cant wait to see part 2!

An interesting article even for a Brit. I am surprised at what foods you don't know about. I thought everyone knew what a treacle tart was or what wine gums were. I don't think i have seen them for years but then again they are not my favourite sweet. i can't believe you yanks didn't know sherbert lemon. I don't think i would enjoy the books as much if i wasn't British. I thought it was just the sense of humour and musice tastes that seperate the Brits and the Yanks

Very funny. The only thing I'd take issue with is your picture of bacon rind. I think the bacon rind referred to in the books is just the fat cut off the rasher of bacon (the white bit on the picture!). These kind of details are one of the reasons I love the books so much. I'm slightly younger than JKR but I recognise so many of the references she makes to the England I grew up in - the food, the knitted jumper at Christmas, the pubs. Ooh, I've come over all nostalgic!

Anyway, very amusing - and welcome relief from trying to work out whether Snape is good, what the Deathly Hallows are and so much more.

Please write some more - and then forward them to all American fan fic writers. So may enjoyable stories have been marred (for me) by innappropriate Americanisms.

I was just wondering where the term "yanks" came from? I have only heard the term used in history books. I dont know whether I am offended or not. But as an american I have never been called that before.

was just wondering where the term "yanks" came from? I have only heard the term used in history books. I dont know whether I am offended or not. But as an american I have never been called that before.

The term has been in common usage in the UK since at least WW2. I think (but am not certain) that it derives from a Native American word (yanqui perhaps?) for early English settlers in the US. It is, to my mind, an informal but not derogatory term.

I am willing to be corrected on the origins of the word.

Thankyou so much. As a self proclaimed fan of English culture, for examle the BBC is one of my favorite channels, I feel pretty safe with the english version of Harry Potter.

But as emersed that I am in english comedys, dramas, and jane austin books, I have been perplexed by some of the strange foods in the HP series. What I love in particular about JKR's writting style is she describes so thoroughly what is in Harrys surroundings, especially food.

I have to admit that I come away from the books feeling hungry after reading about Mrs Weasleys breakfasts.

I have a few foods that confuse me and I hope you can clear them up. Off the top of my head.....

1. Spotted dick....ahem. For this american I admit I was a bit turned off by the sound.

2. Kippers

Spotted dick is a pudding which is cylinder shape, and it has raisins and such in it: http://www.girlalive.com/food/images/dick2.jpg

kippers are atype of fish which is almost always smokes to give it a taste: http://www.seastar.ie/seapix/kippers.jpg

this is wierd...i'm canadian and never had any real problems with the foods. we have mars bars and wine gums in practically every convenience store and i just used context to figure out what other things were. it's kind of weird how because of our relationship with britain we have those weirdo british things and america doesnt :hmm:

The term Yank is a contraction of the term Yankee. It seems likely that they term originates from a nickname Janke a diminuitive form of Jan the Dutch form of John. Apparently it was first applied to early dutch settlers in New Amsterdam (later New York) and was then transferred to English settlers in new England and later extended more widely.

It's not offensive term at all in my opinion ;)

I am not suggesting that Pumpkin Juice and Butterbeer are British, I'm saying that I don't know what they are. Does anyone have any opinions on what these items might be? What do you imagine when you read about them?

I've always imagined Butterbeer to be like drinking butterscotch. I'M not quite sure why :lol:

As for pumpkin juice, I'd assumed that was fairly explainatory ~ that it was indeed the juice of a pumpkin. In all honesty I'd never really thought about it, my experience with pumpkins being limited to Halloween and the very odd savory dish made by my mother.

I enjoyed your editorial it made me nostalgic. when I was a girl my best friend was from England, We laughed so hard when she asked me for a plaster, in the US it is a bandaid I thought she wanted paste. The first time we where going out she said she would get her jumper. I told her she did'nt have to change her clothes. She laughed I did'nt know what was funny. When she came back she had a sweater.

I enjoyed the editorial and learned that some of the foods I thought were "magical" are actually real!

What an interesting and fun editorial to read. That helped a lot. I'm very visual person, pictures help a lot. The desserts are :drool: worthy.

Great job. :tu:

For further meaning of the term "yanks", I will throw in my tidbit. In America, not everyone is a yankee. I am from Texas and it is common knowledge that the term yankee is applied to people from the northern half of the U.S, especially in the New England terriorty. It has significant meaning during the Civil War, as the North was referred to as yankees, and the South was referred to as confederates.

I really enjoyed this editorial! I'm American, but my step-dad is British, so the only things I was completely in the dark about were wine gums (I didn't even realize this was a food; I stupidly associated the term with the gums in your mouth and had no idea what the wine part meant) and although I know what a tart is, I didn't know what the treacle part meant (but now I want treacle tart!).

Butterbeer, to me, is just like what Liselle posted. Warm butterscotch, mmm!

Can't wait for part 2!

I just relate butterbeer to the recipe that Mugglenet has posted. It actually comes out quite good when made. And though I haven't made it, I relate Pumpkin Juice the same way, since that is there too.

Lovely idea for an editorial-

1) Some americans know of Blancmanges from Monty Python. But since those were actually aliens who turned the entire population of the UK into Scotsmen, to insure the Blancmanges would win Wimboldon, it probably isn't a very useful introduction to them as food.

2) My mom enjoys Mystery novels, and has a book to explain the terms used by so many English writers. Most are not translated for Americans, and I think that is for the better. But then I don't mind subtitles either. And of course Harry Potter was initially marketed to children.

3) Two bits about "Yanks". George M Cohan wrote a song called "Over There" which I believe was originally popular during WWI. One of the lines was, "The Yanks are coming, the Yanks are coming, and we won't be back till its over Over there." This suggests that "Yanks" may have entered the British vernacular well before WWII.

I was told long ago that what constitutes a Yankee depends upon your location.
In Mexico and further south, all Americans are Yankees.
In the American South(east), a Yankee is someone from the North.
In the North, a Yankee is someone from New England. (Thats Maine, Massachusetts, New Hampshire, Vermont, Connecticut and Rhode Island.)
In New England, a Yankee is some one from the state of Maine.
And in Maine, a Yankee is someone who eats Apple Pie for breakfast.

I'm laughing to see that someone else had to resort to the internet to find out what some of the "english" words were!!!! And that someone else sees a movie in their mind when they read a book.

I myself had to look up balaclava, trainers, and jumper.

I find this hilarious because of being of English decent and being able to trace family lines to mideviel England. The family immigrated in the 1500's to the new world. My father's family is supposedly named after a river in GB that I have never been able to find on any map. I have had steak and kidney pie and kippers, both being delicious.

But nothing would be more fun than sitting in the Great Hall and sampling the foods listed in the book!

By the way, what are "sprouts"? Alfalfa, bean or brussel?

By the way, what are "sprouts"? Alfalfa, bean or brussel?
Almost always Brussels - the only other sprouts are bean sprouts used in Chinese food.

A really enjoyable article, though more because of the entertainment than the information it provided. If anything, it came as a surprise to me that many non-British fans had trouble understanding the Britishisms used in the HP books. I am Indian, and I had no trouble following most of them. Yes, we use (mostly) British English, but we cetainly don't share the same cuisine. However, I have been reading British books right since childhood, so 'blancmange' and 'treacle tarts' held no mysteries for me. The only food items I had to look up while reading HP were 'chipolatas' and 'Yorkshire Pudding' - I had heard of the latter before, but hadn't realised that it was anything but a pudding. ;)
Anyway, looking forward to the next part. :)

An interesting article even for a Brit. I am surprised at what foods you don't know about. I thought everyone knew what a treacle tart was or what wine gums were. I don't think i have seen them for years but then again they are not my favourite sweet. i can't believe you yanks didn't know sherbert lemon. I don't think i would enjoy the books as much if i wasn't British. I thought it was just the sense of humour and musice tastes that seperate the Brits and the YanksThere were a lot of the foods mentioned that I had already heard of, like steak and kidney pie, by reading British literature. But the items you mentioned, treacle tart, wine gums and sherbet lemon were things I had never heard of. I even looked the word treacle up in the dictionary, since Harry seemed to use it so often. I wanted to know what it was. I did figure out that when they talked about pudding, they meant dessert. When we say pudding, we mean the food that is composed of milk, sugar, corn starch, etc. It is amazing how alike we are, yet different, too.

Wow! I'm so glad you did this. My trusty dictionary kept failing me over and over. Next time, could you please tell us what the heck that thing is Mr. Weasley is peeling in HBP?

Good editorial; I definitely appreciated the bit about sherbert lemon.

However, I might have liked a bit more detail on some things -- like the chipolatas. They appear to be sausages, but what sort of meat is in them and how are they flavored? Also, it might have been helpful to mention that American bacon and UK bacon actually come from different bits of the pig, accounting for the more meat / less fat composition. I don't mean this to sound snarky, I'm just a bit of a food nut. Thanks for your effort!

However, I might have liked a bit more detail on some things -- like the chipolatas. They appear to be sausages, but what sort of meat is in them and how are they flavored?
Chipolatas are thin sausages - a bit like hot dogs. They're usually pork of a sausage like consistency and can be flavoured with a variety of herbs, spices and vegetables just like normal sausages.

eta American bacon is called streaky bacon here and is widely available. The sort shown in the essay is back bacon.

Wow. what a lot of things americans are deprived of. What is american bacon like anyway?

Great idea for an editorial!
I'm Brirtish, and live in Cornwall, where the pasty originated so thought I might give some extra information about them and some of the other food mentioned:
Pumpkin pasties are an invention of JKR's. Traditional Cornish pasties are made by piling a load of cubed vegetables (particularly potatoes and swede, the latter being called by many Cornish folk "turnips" even though they're completely different things), seasoning (pepper), and meat (traditionally steak), onto a flat, circular piece of puff-pastry, then folding the pastry over the filling and "crimping" the edges. Nowadays, pasties come with various fillings (though pumpkin is something i've yet to come across) including all vegetable, cheese, cheese and onion, lamb, probably pork, etc. In the past, they were lunch for the miners of the famous Cornish tin mines. Sometimes the pasties would have about a third separated off with a strip of pastry and filled with a sweet filling, like fruit, for desert. I made pasties at primary school, with this sweet compartment, and used apple - it was d e l i c i o u s. The miners would always leave a bit of the crust in the mines for the "Knockers" (ahem - stop laughing, they're Cornish Piskies) otherwise they'd get bad luck. We were told at primary school about a mine rescue worker how was very sceptical and refused to leave some of his pasty behind (this was in modern times) - he broke his toe on the way out! You are right to assume that it is pronounced like "nasty" but only if you talk in an accent where "nasty" has the same vowel sound as apple not arm. So you pronounce it "pas-tee". Now, for chipolatas (by the way, I do use paragraphs but I found out just now that if you press enter it posts your comment. How do you start a new paragraph on here?). So, chipolatas. They're long, thin, very tasty sausages that we eat at Christmas, traditionally wrapped in bacon - the picture didn't relly do them justice. Try this: http://www.sxc.hu/pic/m/s/sa/salsachica/336689_chipolatas_2.jpg (http://www.sxc.hu/pic/m/s/sa/salsachica/336689_chipolatas_2.jpg) . I don't think it was made very clear that the bacon rind is simply the fatty edge of the bacon rasher, which some people (NOT me) don't like eating. A word about sherbet: we have things called "Sherbet Dips" (http://www.sweetsforu.co.uk/images/sheb--fountsmall.jpg) which come in various shaped packets and include either a liquorice stick or lolly-pop which you lick then dip in the sherbet to coat it and you lick the sherbet off then dip it again... You also get "flying saucers" (http://www.benjis-direct.com/smartedit/images/products/01/bor014.jpg) which are filled with sherbet; also, long plastic sticks filled with sherbet of different colours - you rip the end off (that takes as much time as it does to eat the damn thing) and pour all the sherbet into your mouth. That's all now, sorry this comment's almost as long as the editorial itself, but hopefully it's informative.

Good one, Robbie! Looking forward to part two. Great photos.

You really don't know what wine gums are? Wow... I'm from the Netherlands and here, they're pretty common:)

I really like the idea of this editorial (and all the editorials following) - that we can even more enjoy the books by being able to visualize more of it's content:)

Excellent editorial, as always.

Wow! I'm so glad you did this. My trusty dictionary kept failing me over and over. Next time, could you please tell us what the heck that thing is Mr. Weasley is peeling in HBP?

I looked this up after I read HBP; it's a satsuma, a kind of orange. The main place I went to for research on food in HP was here:

All Recipes Food Encyclopedia (http://allrecipes.com/Info/Cooking-School/Reference/Cooks-Encyclopedia/ViewAll.aspx)

The term Yank is a contraction of the term Yankee. It seems likely that they term originates from a nickname Janke a diminuitive form of Jan the Dutch form of John. Apparently it was first applied to early dutch settlers in New Amsterdam (later New York) and was then transferred to English settlers in new England and later extended more widely.

It's not offensive term at all in my opinion ;)

True! And Jan is a very common name here. It's also the Irish Ian, the French Jean, the Italian Gian or Gianni and so on. But actually, Yankee is derived from two common Dutch first names: Jan and Kees. (Kees is also very common). The British people, after the Dutch sold New Amsterdam (then it became New York), called all Dutch people "Jan-Kees" (because the names were so common and so typical). After that, it became corrupted to Yankees.

And I don't consider it offensive either:) It's the same thing with the city Vancouver, that has Dutch roots as well. Some 20 miles from where I live, there's a small city with only some 10.000 inhabitants, called Coevorden. "Van" means "from" or "of". In "Vancouver", it indicates that the family who started living there came from Coevorden.

Wow! I'm so glad you did this. My trusty dictionary kept failing me over and over. Next time, could you please tell us what the heck that thing is Mr. Weasley is peeling in HBP?

Haha it's [a satsuma] some sort of mandarin:)

Thank you for this article!! It was so helpful, I had no idea what most of those foods were! I don't think that not being able to picture the food Harry is eating detracts from the reading though, I mean unless the kippers suddenly create a major plot twist I can enjoy the books perfectly well with my own inventions of the foods. But thank you for clearing it up! Looking forward to part two! :tu:

And I always thought "sprouts" in the HP books was potatoes. Why would you peel brussel sprouts with a knife (as Ron and Harry do at the Burrow in HBP).

What are rock cakes (like Hagrid tends to serve)?

haha this was so funny!!!!! and so helpful too!!!:) looking forward to part 2:)

Could some of the people who know what wine gums are describe them a little better? They look like gummi bears to me, except not bear shaped.

The things you are calling sherbets sound like colored, flavored sugar. Is that what they essentially are?

Just wanted to say thanks for helping get rid of some of the place holders in my head.

This was such a fun editorial! I'm really looking forward to #2. But being Canadian I didn't have much trouble with the food, though I do not know what stoat sandwiches are. The thing that I wonder about is how bad or a word is 'Git'. They are always using that bit of slang and I was curious to know if it was like jerk or more like @$&. :hmm: I find slang the challange. (I thought I should mention Canadians are reading the brittish version, not American.)

Could some of the people who know what wine gums are describe them a little better? They look like gummi bears to me, except not bear shaped.

The things you are calling sherbets sound like colored, flavored sugar. Is that what they essentially are?

Well, they are sort of gummi bear-ish. In general less sweet though... they are also bigger and round or oval-shaped. They don't have the "traditional" flavours that other sweets usually have. I have no idea what else to say about wine gums:p

yum. I want a pumpkin pasty. I love pumpkin and I love pasties now that I know what they are =). Did any other Americans take a few minutes to figure out what "snogging" was when they first read it?

Very fun and refreshing editorial! And to think, all this time I pictured Harry turning the dragon's gums into wine to make the mouth less threatening (wow, that's kind of embarassing:eeep:). As for the pumpkin pasty, I thought is was probably just a wizarding world confection that Jo made up. Most of the other foods, I didn't have a problem with. I likened chipolatas with chorizo (I'm from New Mexico) which is a spicy pork sausage. British sherbert and puddings I had heard of before. Steak and kidney pie, fairly self explanitory. Having studied french and the french culture for the past 12 years, those foods were a lovely surprise.

As for the question about butterbeer, I've always imagined it as fizzy, slightly alcoholic, liquid butterscotch. Yum!

And to add to the "yankee" discussion, I've always understood that is was a fairly common and old term for us "Americans" from the Brits. Now, being from the southwest U.S., all people from the U.S. are "yankees." However, I did live in east Texas for a while and you would be very unpopular if you called anyone from that part of the country a "yankee" because of the implications given to the term during the U.S. Civil War.

Anyway, great job and I look forward to the next installment!

best,
la femme

This was fun! I have been to Britain several times (including going to university there for a little while) and so knew what most of the foods were, but I still learned some new things. A few comments:

My mystery food is still peppermint humbugs. ???

Sherbert over here used to be very popular when I was a kid. It was called "Fun dip." You licked a white candy stick and dipped it into tart-sweet powder—grape, cherry, and lime, I think.

Back in "the day," ginger ale used to be called ginger beer sometimes. I imagine butterbeer to be a carbonated beverage with a butterscotch flavor and a bit of an alcoholic kick.

Back bacon has a very different texture from streaky bacon. It is more like pork chop meat and has a cured taste that reminds me a little of proscuitto when compared to streaky bacon. Yummy.

As for whether the Brits or the Yanks (which outside this country often applies to all Americans, not just Northerners) enjoy the Potter books more, I think the main difference is that Brits enter a new world of wizards and magic and hippogriffs and giants. Americans get to enter that world, but we also get to enter the world of castles and other buildings that are over 300 years old, trainers, public school (which over here means something entirely different), and gardens (which are really just yards, but sound so much nicer and often are). So I guess it's a matter of whether you like having the familiar to anchor you as you enter the magical world, or whether you like the challange of entering two new worlds. As an Anglophile, I have enjoyed my time in both.

My mystery food is still peppermint humbugs. ???


http://www.worksmart.org.uk/img/humbug.gif

A hard sweet like this ;)


Could some of the people who know what wine gums are describe them a little better? They look like gummi bears to me, except not bear shaped.
Like this :http://www.thegreendoorsweetshop.co.uk/shop/images/products/cnv0328.jpg

They're sweets that are just between hard and very soft in different colours and sometimes different types. Usually there's the name of an alcoholic beverage on them like Gin or Whisky etc

nice....but some of that food just souns soo weird!! i mean sherbert isnt ice creamish over there?!?! how crazy.
I know american schooling isnt as good as it is in England...but i mean were not mentally disabled....our brains work just fine thank you very much

I'm Canadian, but both my parents are from Britain so I've heard of many of the foods in the books, like steak and kidney pie (my mum used to get that for school dinners), and blancmange (which I actually heard about from Monty Python), although not all of them. Thank you for clearing this up!

I have a question. I have read quite a few English authors, and in one description of a meal there was "steak and kidney pudding". Is this an editing/printing mistake or is there also a "dessert" with this name? I assume from my readings that steak and kidney pie is more like a main dish/entree like shepherds pie(is that capitalized and apostrophied). I've never been to the UK (not for lack of wanting) so I'm basing my information on the context of the writing.

In other words: just tell me if pudding and pie mean the same thing when referring to "steak and kidney".:hmm:

Wow, thanks! I'd wondered about some of those foods as well, and never knew wine gums were a food. I'm looking forward to #2!

American bacon comes in strips, and is crispy, like this:
http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k196/abbey_Road013/bacon.jpg

I think the pudding is similar to the pie, only I've seen pictures of it being steamed inside a cloth bag, so I'm not sure.

Thanks everybody for your helpful comments. I've been plaguing my editor with revisions to Part 2 so that I can include some of the dishes you brought up.

I'm still confused over the steak and kidney pie. The picture was helpful, but it doesn't explain exactly what is inside the pie...is it made with kidneys? Kidney beans? If kidneys, what kind?

A very refreshing change from all the DH speculation. Being Australian, we get the English translations of the HP books, and most of the food makes sense, so it's easy to forget that other cultures might not understand the references. For us, sherbert is a fizzy powder, sometimes coloured and sometimes white. Sherbert bombs are round lollies made of something like taffy with sherbert inside, and we have something called a Wizz fizz which is just a paper packet of plain sherbert, which is even nicer than pixie sticks in my opinion. Treacle tart and blancmange are familiar from reading Enid Blyton stories growing up although they are not made much anymore. About the only thing I never recognised was wine gums, which I assumed were gummybears with wine flavouring. Hmm...now i'm hungry and since I just had breakfast I didn't think that was possible!

RE: "Yanks"

One theory is it comes from the Dutch settlers of New Amsterdam, which became New York. English settlers would call a Dutch settler "Jan Cheese," the way Union soldiers would say "Johnny Rebel" in the US Civil War. The "Cheese" came from the fact that the Dutch made and ate a lot of cheese (tying in with the food theme). "Jan Cheese" became corrupted into "Yankees." Supposedly.

If you ask a non-American "Who do you call a Yankee?", he'll say "An American." If you ask a Southern American, he'll say "A Northerner." If you ask a Northern American, he'll say "A New Englander." If you ask a New Englander, he'll say "Someone from Maine." If you ask someone from Maine, he'll refuse to answer such a stupid question.

Pudding is what I'd think of a christmas pudding ~ traditional pudding shape. Steak and Kidney pie in every single guise I've seen it has been a pie, I've not idea how (or why) someone would make a pudding out of it :hmm: So I guess that must have been a typo!

I'm still confused over the steak and kidney pie. The picture was helpful, but it doesn't explain exactly what is inside the pie...is it made with kidneys? Kidney beans? If kidneys, what kind?
The steak and kidney pie is a typical British dish with a filling of diced beef steak and beef kidneys in a thick sauce. Then literally baked in a dish covered by pastry!

The description of steak & kidney pudding that I read, says that it is boiled. If the pie is baked, I guess that would be the difference.

Most Americans have never eaten kidneys in their lives. They may say they have eaten kidneys but they mean "kidney beans." Kidneys used to be more popular (say, up until the 1950s) and are now probably eaten only by the very rich and the very poor - they aren't even sold in many of the stores where the average middle-class American buys meat.

My father tells me his mother used to make kidneys for breakfast and they smelled up the whole house. Her (my grandma's) joke about them was:

Q - How do you cook kidneys?
A - Boil the ____ out of them.

Steak and Kidney pudding is not a sweet pudding. It is like the Steak and Kidney Pie but with a different type of pastry and usually steamed in a cloth bag.

The kidney used in Steak and Kidney Pie/Pudding is an internal organ of a cow.

Thanks, Liselle. for the humbug information. So in the context, then, they were probably meant as breath mints. I think they appeared at one of the Christmas dinners, and the quote was something like, " . . . and for some strange reason, peppermint humbugs." Must have been one of the earlier books before Harry liked Cho and would have recognized the value of a peppermint!

In culinary terms there are at least three definitions of pudding in British English.

1. It can just mean dessert (especially at school),

2. Yorkshire pudding which is essentially batter cooked in the oven (and if it's cooked beneath the meat absolutely delicious); and

3. soft or fairly firm food consisting of ingredients mixed with or enclosed in flour or other farinaceous or cereal substance and cooked by boiling, steaming or baking (from the concise OED) This sort of pudding can be sweet (spotted dick) or savoury (steak and kidney)

This is steak and kidney pudding

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y4/MundunguFletc/Steak_Kidney_Pudding.jpg

I'm not a great lover of offal - liver kidneys tripe etc. but I make an exception for steak and kidney because it's a marriage made in heaven - especially if beer is included when making it

Kippers are herrings - but smoked and usually dyed reddish brown. Eaten for breakfast.
Treacle is what Americans call molasses. It's also used to describe Golden Syrup - a kind of thick syrup. Fudge is a hard or crumbly sweet (candy) made of butter, sugar and cream - often it has nuts in it. I suppose Hagrid's version is made with treacle instead of sugar.
Stoat sandwich is just JKR's nasty invention. A stoat is an animal much like a weasel.

My granny used to make rock cakes. They were quite hard, with currants in, and roughly shaped, like a rock. They were delicious (sniff...)

I thank you all for your solving my steak and kidney pie/pudding question. Mundungus Fletc that picture is very enlightening(?) and I am not in any hurry to try it, whether pudding or pie. :no:

I am loving this discussion, since I read a lot, this helps with my British authors, including my favorite, Jo. (I am a very visual person.)

An interesting article even for a Brit. I am surprised at what foods you don't know about. I thought everyone knew what a treacle tart was or what wine gums were. I don't think i have seen them for years but then again they are not my favourite sweet. i can't believe you yanks didn't know sherbert lemon. I don't think i would enjoy the books as much if i wasn't British. I thought it was just the sense of humour and musice tastes that seperate the Brits and the Yanks

Have to agree with you there priggy. I can't see the americans enjoying the books as much, having so many alien things to them. If Jk was american and included american things that I had not of heard of it just wouldn't be the same.

BublGumPnkHar
Mundungus Fletc that picture is very enlightening(?) and I am not in any hurry to try it, whether pudding or pie.
I'll try pretty much anything once (apart from Morris dancing of course) You might find you liked it - though the crispy pastry of a pie is preferable to the starchy covering of a pudding in my opinion

thanks for clearing up that "satsuma" thingy. It puzzled me forever. I guess I could've googled it, but I can't get off Mugglenet long enough!

Have to agree with you there priggy. I can't see the americans enjoying the books as much, having so many alien things to them. If Jk was american and included american things that I had not of heard of it just wouldn't be the same.

As an american I think that it actually made me like the books that much more. To me it made everything about it new and that much more interesting. I think that had the books been about american kids I might not have liked it so much because it wouldnt have been such an excape from my everyday life and everyday surroundings.
But I dont see how I would not enjoy it as much as say an British person, I mean I loved the lord of the rings even though I have never seen middle earth.

Good American books for discovering distinctively American magic:

"The Boy Who Saved Baseball" by John H. Ritter
"Charlotte's Web" by E. B. White
"Rootabaga Stories" by Carl Sandburg
Works by Edward Eager, Eleanor Estes, Blue Balliett, David Lubar, Louis Sachar, Diane Duane, and Emily Drake...see the Book Trolley!

I have a question for the Americans. What's "Taffy"? I first heard it on the new Willie Wonka and just thought it was "Toffee" with an American accent. But someone above said "Taffy".???:huh:

Taffy is a very soft, chewy, stretchy candy. There are two types. "Saltwater taffy" is usually handmade and comes in bite-sized lumps wrapped in individual twists of waxed paper. The commercial type of taffy is sold as long, rectangular strips that can be stretched and pulled into pieces. Both types are dyed in outlandish colors (sometimes multiple colors to a single piece). Taffy is quite hard on one's teeth.

I guess there used to be social events called "taffy pulls" in the US. I've never heard of one being held in my lifetime, but there's an off-color joke about a drunken priest who gets his words mixed up while announcing "a taffy pull at St. Peter's." There have been other plays on the word taffy, such as the title of a Sylvester the Cat cartoon: "Saltwater Tabby."

We have toffee too, mainly in Heath Bars (which contains hard toffee) and Fiddle Faddle popcorn treats (which are coated with a softer type that we call "English toffee"). Heath Bars are less often eaten as candy bars than crumbled up into various confections such as ice cream, cookies, or (my favorite) a dessert consisting of layers of meringue, whipped cream, and crushed Heath Bars.

Thanks a lot for talking about Heath Bars, I love them, but you're right; I usually eat them in ice cream or as bits in a larger piece of chocolate candy, not so much toffee in one bite. They are so rich, but delicious. I don't need to hear about your favorite recipe/blend, I was doing fine in ignorance. :lol:

For further meaning of the term "yanks", I will throw in my tidbit. In America, not everyone is a yankee. I am from Texas and it is common knowledge that the term yankee is applied to people from the northern half of the U.S, especially in the New England terriorty. It has significant meaning during the Civil War, as the North was referred to as yankees, and the South was referred to as confederates.

Mark Twain wrote a book calles something like " A Yankie at King Arthurs Cort"

Mark Twain wrote a book calles something like " A Yankie at King Arthurs Cort"

The full title is "A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court. Connecticut is part of New England and Twain lived most of his later years in Hartford, Connecticut (Conn, CT - abbrevations - most people don't type it out.) So not only was he a "yankee" being an American, but he spent most of his life in the north/New England. A "yankee" for sure. :D

great editorial.....its funny, being a commonwealth country (Australia) I pretty much considered that to be a title or formality.....but after learning of the many things americans do not understand in the books ive realised that the uk really has rubbed off on australia, and apparently other commonwealth nations like canada..... and we are in a completely different hemisphere. over here pasties are pastry with various chopped vegetables in the centre.....mars bars are similar to milky ways which we have too, but they are bigger and have a layer of caramel.
what does an american rash of bacon look like?

American bacon comes in strips, like this:
http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k196/abbey_Road013/bacon.jpg

I love this thread!

I have a question about breakfast in the UK. In America (well, I guess I should say in Midwest America) we eat fried or scrambled eggs, fried bacon strips/sausage patties, fried potatoes and milk gravy with biscuits. (I don't like the milk gravy but 99% of people do.) In the UK, as I understand it, you eat kippers...fish? for breakfast? I'm not slamming the fish but if it's like herring I don't get that. About 20 years ago I worked in a restaurant that served herring that was cold and kind of creamy and people but it on their salads. So to me it's kind of a lunch or dinner food item. So what is a common UK breakfast consist of?

Also what is afternoon tea for? Is it just to take a break in the afternoon? What are crumpets (sp?) like? I picture a kind of sugar cookie.

Oh! I also wanted to ask why are some of the foods mentioned cooked in a cloth? What kind of cloth and what is the purpose of cooking food in it? I can't think of an American food cooked in a cloth.

Full English breakfast - fried eggs, bacon, sausages, black sausage (insert projectile vomiting smiley) fried bread, mushrooms and grilled tomatoes. (In the last decade or so hash browns as well) Alternately kippers or kedgeree or devilled kidneys .

Afternoon tea has almost died out - it used to be tea with sandwiches and cake. Crumpets are savoury - there's a picture on one of these threads.

Puddings (third definition here (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=4339949&postcount=68)) are cooked in a cloth because they fall apart before they are done otherwise.

Full English breakfast - fried eggs, bacon, sausages, black sausage (insert projectile vomiting smiley) fried bread, mushrooms and grilled tomatoes. (In the last decade or so hash browns as well) Alternately kippers or kedgeree or devilled kidneys .

Afternoon tea has almost died out - it used to be tea with sandwiches and cake. Crumpets are savoury - there's a picture on one of these threads.

Puddings (third definition here (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=4339949&postcount=68)) are cooked in a cloth because they fall apart before they are done otherwise.

Thanks! So breakfast has mostly the same items...a little different...we just put the tomatoes/mushrooms in the eggs and call it an omlete.

Now this is a good editorial! Wonderful subject and very informative.

You liken pumpkin pasties to calazone because very few Americans know what a pastie is but here's another way to think about it. It's probably like a pastie with pumpkin pie filling in it. The good news is that you don't have to go to Britain (specifically Scotland) to try pasties. You can find a variety of these in Northern Michigan where Scottish immigrant heritage is strong. Although I've never seen a pastie made with pumpkin in da UP, I'll bet it would be good.

What I'm confused about is butterbeer. What is this? Is it like Ginger-ale or Vernor's? Is it like tonic water? I suppose it could be a non-alcoholic malt beverage like O'Doul's or a watered down 3.2 beer, but I don't see much point to those products anyway.

Pumpkin juice is another mystery. Pumpkin is a form of squash, it's not very juicy. Pumpkin isn't even all that tasty. Pumpkin pie wouldn't be all that good without the ginger, nutmeg, sugar etc. I might be more willing to try one of those Bertie Bott's Every Flavor Jelly Beans before pumpkin juice, at least some of the Jelly Beans have nice flavors.

Hi
Actually pasties are often called Cornish Pasties, like the pixies. The tin miners of Cornwall, southern England used to take them down the tin-mines for lunch. The traditional filling is ground beef with potatoes and onions. Sometimes in the old days they had jam at one end for dessert:drool:
Linda

"O" for Outstanding!
I'm a Brit, the same age as JKR so when I read about the food it's like home-cooking to me. I've lived in Ohio for 18 years so I understand your confusion. You did a super job explaining these items. Someone asked about butter-beer. Muggles don't drink that.
If you are still confused about "pudding", the word is used in two ways. It can be a generic name for the dessert course (e.g. "What's for pudding?") or it can a steamed cake eaten hot, like the chocolate volcano cakes that a popular US restaurant chain has been serving. (You can also get them from "Market Day" at your local school.) The British rarely eat their pies and pudding with ice-cream though. "Custard" is a staple. It is a hot yellow vanilla sauce made with milk. I would encourage readers to try some of these foods which are available in the USA though online stores. Just Google "British Foods". And don't believe anyone who tells you "The rest of the worls has good food and the British just have good table manners" It's not true :lol:
Linda

Mark Twain used the word in "A Yankee at King Arthur's Court". I think it means a Northern American (US Civil War) or a New Englander.

Where I live, in St. Louis, there is a strong local tradition of eating frozen custard. A particular favorite, locally, is a "concrete," which is like a thick shake with tons of stuff (crushed fruit, fudge, nuts, etc.) blended into it, so thick that when the server turns your cup upside down, nothing falls out. In most of the US, frozen custard is only starting to become popular. Other than that, custard is sometimes found as a pastry filling.

In some parts of the U.S., "biscuits and gravy" is sort of the "default setting" for breakfast. I used to go regularly to a restaurant where a "quarter order of biscuits and gravy" was 2 biscuits, split in half, on a plate covered from one edge to the other with white gravy that had lots of black pepper and a few lumps of crumbled sausage in it. I hated the stuff. Occasionally I saw someone gluttonous enough to ask for a "half order" but I don't remember ever seeing a "whole order" served. How strange our ways are, sometimes.

Of course the word "biscuit" presents a problem. Americans know what the English call "biscuits" chiefly through those buttery Royal Dansk treats that come wrapped in ruffly paper cups in decorative tins, mainly appearing in our stores around Christmastime. What we call biscuits are close to what, I am led to understand, the British call "scones," only ours are (ideally) somewhat fluffier and flakier. I like our biscuits with butter and jam, rather than gravy, thank you. Maybe it's an idea I stole from the English.

I'm not sure what you mean, Mundungus, by "savory." I've been treated to a "British high tea" once, which doesn't make me an expert. I frankly have no memory of what the crumpets were like, so I'd enjoy learning more about them. I do know that the British meaning of "sandwich" is a bit different from the American meaning. Until that "high tea" experience, I had never seen a sandwich so thin, crustless, and cut into narrow strips, to say nothing of the types of sandwiches that were served. To be honest, I ate myself sick. It was all so very yummy and interesting. But it makes me laugh to think of an American hostess trying to please a British guest with "tea sandwiches," and instead serving the American idea of a snack sandwich - with the crust on, cut into 2 fat triangles and most likely taller than it is wide.

I understand the boiling in a cloth bit. I've heard, in America, of meat being roasted inside a burlap bag, buried the ground with hot coals. It's not something we do everyday, though. Some readers have described puddings (the savory kind) as "steamed" rather than boiled.

What on earth is a kedgeree?

Also, I've always wanted to know what exactly it means to be "devilled." In America we hear often of "devilled eggs" and occasionally "devilled ham," and now Mundungus brings up "devilled kidneys." I have yet to see any similarity between these dishes as I understand them. Can anyone enlighten me?

Links for Kedgeree (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kedgeree) and Devilled Kidneys (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devilled_kidneys) I think the expression devilled as regards food means it is hot because of the spices.

Tea sandwiches are almost a vanished food nowadays - they relied upon servants or women staying at home because they're fussy to make. (in the Potterverse you have house elfs to do it so perhaps they survive) You used to be able to buy a variety of savoury spreads (sort of soft pâté) to go in them. And of course the best known consisted of bread, butter and very finely cut cucumber (which isn't as flavourless as it sounds).

I googled and got this picture of afternoon tea

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y4/MundunguFletc/sandwiches.jpg

And this is a crumpet (A word by the way that has another rather vulgar meaning in British English so only to be used if the context is quite clear)

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y4/MundunguFletc/Crumpet.jpg

That american biscuit v european biscuit always amused me in America. I've had american scones (savory and quite tasteless) and I prefer the european ones which come in a variety of types :tu:

[QUOTE=Mundungus Fletc;4346683]
You used to be able to buy a variety of savoury spreads (sort of soft pâté) to go in them. And of course the best known consisted of bread, butter and very finely cut cucumber (which isn't as flavourless as it sounds).

Oh, that reminds me of something my mom used to make for me. It was grated cucumber and cream cheese on bread with the crust cut off. It was so good! I live in florida so it was a nice cool snack for the summer.:drool:

My Dad used to make me cucumber sandwiches. These were big, thick sandwiches slathered with mayonnaise and lots of salt. We peeled the cukes of course. Very good stuff.

That picture of the crumpet looked a bit like what we Americans call, he he, an "English Muffin."

Hello again,
My husband is from India and they have a dish called "Kitchuree" (not sure of the spelling) which is a mixture of rice and lentils. I think the British took a liking to that and called it kedgeree. It was more popular in Victorian times. In the excange of cultures between India and England, we also picked up a liking for "chutney" which is like salsa and goes well with cheese. If a British person talks about a "pickle", it is more likely to be a small pickled onion than a cucumber. Also, the English cucumbers are about twice as long as American cucumbers. The skins are thinner and the seeds are softer so you don't have to peel them. You can buy them in U.S. grocery stores.
While you are there, look for crumpets in the refridgerated section, next to what Pillsbury calls "biscuits". I have seen them many times. Crumpets are best toated and smothered with butter and blackberry jelly. By the way, "jelly" in British books is likely to be what Americans call by the brand-name "jello".
Now, about breakfast: Let's face it, most mornings we all eat Kellogs cereal on both sides of "the pond" don't we? When I first came to the U.S., I did not understand why my husband would eat do-nuts for breakfast. They are for tea!:lol:

The term has been in common usage in the UK since at least WW2. I think (but am not certain) that it derives from a Native American word (yanqui perhaps?) for early English settlers in the US. It is, to my mind, an informal but not derogatory term.

I am willing to be corrected on the origins of the word.

Actually "Yankee" - of which "Yank" is an abbreviation - comes from a Dutch name (or names) which were common among Dutch immigrants to the New York region in the seventeenth century! It subsequently became a British put down word for Americans, but has since lost some (if not all) of its derogatory implications: I agree with pale_empress that it is often used as a simple informal term. The Online Etymology Dictionary says this:

"YANKEE: 1683, a name applied disparagingly by Du. settlers in New Amsterdam (New York) to English colonists in neighboring Connecticut. It may be from Du. Janke, lit. "Little John," dim. of common personal name Jan; or it may be from Jan Kes familiar form of "John Cornelius," or perhaps an alt. of Jan Kees, dial. variant of Jan Kaas, lit. "John Cheese," the generic nickname the Flemings used for Dutchmen. It originally seems to have been applied insultingly to Dutch, especially freebooters, before they turned around and slapped it on the English. In Eng. a term of contempt (1750s) before its use as a general term for "native of New England" (1765); during the American Revolution it became a disparaging British word for all American native or inhabitants. Shortened form Yank in reference to "an American" first recorded 1778."

How can americans not know about sherbet lemons and christmas pud and treacle tart! You poor things :( they are the best things ever.

Slightly irritated about the "different world that speaks our language" part though. English is from England and therefore is our language not yours.

Yay! Food Network rocks!

i learn so much about British on "Nigella Feast" !


i can't believe i read Harry Potter for so long and i didn't even thought about research some of these words myself.

How can americans not know about sherbet lemons and christmas pud and treacle tart! You poor things :( they are the best things ever.

Slightly irritated about the "different world that speaks our language" part though. English is from England and therefore is our language not yours.

Whoa, getting touchy!
I have the personal philsophy that no one country or region can lay claim on a language. Language is dynamic and fluid, and always evolving. The English spoken in England today is not that which was spoken there 100 years ago or 500 years ago. The English spoken in the U.S. is different in many ways not only from the English of England, but also from Canadian English, Australian English, Indian English, etc. It's a big language, we can all share, can't we? LOL!

Anyway, as an American, I did not have too many problems deducing what many of the foods in Harry Potter were. The ones I had to google were "treacle" and "spotted dick." I was simply unaware of the difference between American and English bacon types. Now that I know, I want some of the English bacon!
I already knew about biscuits, scones, crumpets, pudding, crisps, kippers (yummy!). Don't know where I picked it all up, I live in the Midwest. :)
But I loved the pictures, made me hungry! Kind of figured out wine gums, sherbet, humbugs, etc.

I agree with the person who said that rather than making the books less enjoyable, having so many interesting new cultural things-food, phrases, names for clothing- to learn has made the books even more enjoyable. I too get annoyed when I catch a fanfic making a mistake with "Americanisms", though I'm sure I don't catch them all!

The article was interesting but we all seem to forget that in our world you cannot change peope in animals and we all accept that aspect of Harry's world, so why should the exact reference of what a Mars bar is matter? Personally, I am getting really tired of the assumption that Americans (and I am not American FYI!) are some how stupid or ill educated for not knowing what candies are called in England!! Do we assume that Brits are dumb because they aren't familiar with American slang or common dinner foods? NO! Give those Yanks a break!

Did you know that Elvis Presley's dad's name was Vernon? There are some other connexion with Harry Potter's world in his biography (wikipedia) :) but nothing very relevant, Except that he had a stillborn twin. That made me think Dudley could have had a magical brother that Vernon and Petunia abandonned and that we see in HBP (you know, the enormous one).