Unforgivable

more2live4
February 16th, 2007, 2:44 am
This is to discuss Unforgivable (http://www.mugglenet.com/editorials/editorials/edit-anbinderl01.shtml) by Logan Anbinder.

cherbear
February 16th, 2007, 3:49 am
Very good idea! How about this - have Draco perform the Imperius curse. You still have the angst-ridden plot twist. Then, the next generation will be working together as a whole to defeat the evil of the previous one. :>)

hilere
February 16th, 2007, 4:14 am
I didn't like this editorial at all... until it got to the Snape bit! However, I do not believe that this will happen. It's certainly a possibilty but I think there's more canon evidence to suggest that Harry won't be able to kill Voldemort using the AK. Think back to the end of HBP "No Unforgivables for you Potter." (I think that was a hugely foreshadowing chapter.) Or else that Harry won't kill Voldemort at all but will have to "vanquish" him some other way as you noted. I personally think Harry will have to kill Voldy but by using some other means than Avada Kadavra. Still, a well thought out theory and even with a nice plot twist!

musicalfan06
February 16th, 2007, 4:22 am
I really really liked it. I'm not sure it could happen, but I think it was very well thought out and definetley had good canon to support it. The little pieces of evidence it used, would be things Jo would use to forshadow bc they weren't noticeable. Like i said, i dont know if it would happen, but definetly a good idea!!! :)

sondra
February 16th, 2007, 4:24 am
Interesting ideas but I don't think that it will happen your way. I believe after Harry detroys the Horcruxs his blood in Voldemort will come into play. That it will act like a poison in Voldemort

SomeGuyFawkes
February 16th, 2007, 4:30 am
No way.

For Harry to be under the Imperious curse would be cheating. JKR does not cheat in such a way.

As others have pointed out, it is doubtful that Harry would or could AK Voldemort.

He'll find a different way to "destroy" Voldy.

hermionefan01
February 16th, 2007, 4:40 am
I really like the possibilities you've brought forward with this idea, but I still don't like the idea of Harry using the killing curse. I also find it highly, highly improbable that Harry will allow Snape to assume complete control of his mind and body. But still, nifty ideas.

Chas
February 16th, 2007, 5:00 am
Thanks, Logan, for an interesting editorial. Like all the "wonderful editorials," it sets one thinking. For example, here is an interesting thought.
... Or else that Harry won't kill Voldemort at all but will have to "vanquish" him some other way as you noted. I personally think Harry will have to kill Voldy but by using some other means than Avada Kadavra...
The prophecy says "either must die at the hand of the other." Harry has unusually powerful hands against Voldemort, as shown in PS/SS when Harry struggled with QuirrellMort (US paper edition, p. 295). So, I think it will be Harry's hands that vanquish Voldemort, and not any particular curse.

Keep up the good work.

sfgilgalad
February 16th, 2007, 7:18 am
why doesnt he create a portkey with the sword, which would bring Voldemort into Hogwarts'room in Gringotts? this would be great :) But I suppose you can't apparate in Gringotts.

hilere
February 16th, 2007, 8:42 am
Originally posted by sfgilgalad why doesnt he create a portkey with the sword, which would bring Voldemort into Hogwarts'room in Gringotts? this would be great But I suppose you can't apparate in Gringotts.

What the heck?

???

Also I don't think it's fair to call someone's theory stupid. You can not like it but to call it stupid is going a bit far.

bribe
February 16th, 2007, 9:13 am
Although this editorial is interesting, I cannot give it any credibility. I do not think Harry would allow anybody to take control of his mind under any circumstance. There are many ways magic could be used to kill without using Avada Kedavra, even as simple a spell as Accio could work. Why not summon a huge rock and fly it into Voldemort's head? (Just kidding).

why doesnt he create a portkey with the sword, which would bring Voldemort into Hogwarts'room in Gringotts? this would be great :) But I suppose you can't apparate in Gringotts.

You have me completely confused here. I don't understand what you are trying to say.

Youdan
February 16th, 2007, 11:50 am
Wasn't AK explained in the killing of the Riddles they looked like they were frighten to death, the fear factor. Where the patronus needs happy, feel good thoughts, That Harry is so full of, Could Harry's patronus or an other love based spell do more damage to Voldermort then a fear based spell?

Shewoman
February 16th, 2007, 2:48 pm
I wonder if an AK done under Imperius would actually work. It seems to me the Imperiused person wouldn't REALLY be feeling the desire to cause pain that Bella says is necessary; it's actually the Imperius Caster's desire.

It's still a good idea and it might turn out that way.

But I keep thinking of all the times we've heard Dumbledore say that there are worse things than death; he said it to Voldemort in the MoM in OotP. V, of course, wasn't buying it. But there are things worse than death, and I think it might be fitting if Voldemort's punishment was to experience one or more of them. Losing his magical powers permanently would be a great one.

Reu
February 16th, 2007, 3:39 pm
good editorial fairplay, you raise a lot of good points, just thinking about what you say, i had wondered if harry would some point have to put himself in snapes hands at in order to defeat voldemort, so thats a really interesting scenario, but i cant see harry willingly placing himself in a situation where snape would have complete control of him, he was very weary of having occlumens with snape, a similar scenario which he was totally at the mercy of snape with his memories and psychological defence. so im not sure about it's plausibility, but i like the idea though, it would need a lot of justification on snapes part to persuade harry if this is the path JKR has gone for! but im not too sure though!

oh yes, just to add, i also like the rock and the veil one! haha cracked me up! i would love it if that happened! :D

8m57w6
February 16th, 2007, 4:09 pm
I thought this editorial had a very interesting idea. However what I thought of as I read it, that wasn't mentioned, was what about Wormtail? He owes a life debt to Harry, and if he were to cast the imperious, it would make it so that Harry would live. But with this, like Snape, I'm not sure how willing Harry would be to have him under the control of Voldemort's main person.

SoccerDM
February 16th, 2007, 4:16 pm
I don't agree with this editorial at all. I haven't read any of the other posts, but here is my reasoning for why this theory blows.

1. Harry Shows resistance to the Imperious Curse. Yes, it took him a few times to completly fight against it in Moody's class. However, the first time it was cast upon him, without Truly Trying to repell it, he unconciously fought it. This inate ability prevents him from just saying, "yeah, ok. Go ahead and cast it upon me.". This doesn't make any sense. He would subconsiously fight the spell regardless.

2. If Harry can witness the Murder of the Closest person to him, and STILL not have the anger to cast an Unforgivable...Harry has little chance of accomplishing this task.

3. As Snape is escaping Hogwarts in HBP, Harry tries to use an Unforgivable Curse on him. Snape deflects it easily and even tells Harry something along the lines of, "No Unforgivable curses for you Potter." or something like that. (Sorry, Don't have the book with me) During the entire Snape escaping Speech, he was obviously giving Harry Clues. "Snape told him how he must learn to close his mind and not wear his emotions on his sleeve or he'll never be able to fight well. This enitre section of the book is further evidence that Harry and Unforgivable Curses are NOT EFFECTIVE.

4. If Harry becomes a Murderer in "Cold Blood", which is what Avada Kedavera is., then it goes against the literary significance given to Harry. JKR hasn't made Harry an evil character. It would contradict the entire series to Have Harry Sink to Voldemorts Level.

I'm not saying that Harry may not be responsible for some Deaths in the Final book, but AK is outta the question. And the Imperious Curse Idea is, well, less then convincing when compared to the facts of the book.

Ticci
February 16th, 2007, 5:05 pm
I love the mugglenet editorials; they always give me something new to think about or confirm that others are thinking about something I've thought of. My expectations of book 7 is that it will reveal Harry's powers that have been subtly hinted at throughout the first six books. Jo has very carefully surrounded Harry's ease in performing magic (sometimes very advanced magic for his age) with other distractions, events and activities. Most recently, apparating in book 7. He apparated only once successfully in class, it was downplayed by Jo with other events and Harrys dislike for the sensation of it, yet he performed apparition perfectly when the circumstances required him to do so - saving Dumbledore. I expect that once he's an adult wizard by turning 17, his full powers will be realized and serve him well. Thank you for the editorial!

king
February 16th, 2007, 5:06 pm
Harry doesn't need to use the Avada Kedavra curse to kill Voldemort. He must destroy all of the horcruxes and then he can kill Voldemort in any number of ways, and he won't have to rely on Snape or Draco for help. The most obvious way for Harry to kill Voldemort is to use the Sectumsempre spell to chop off Voldemort's head. Or he could use an axe. (Harry doesn't even have to cut every last neck tendon to kill Voldemort, just ask Nearly Headless Nick.) Harry doesn't have to kill in rage or for revenge either, he can kill in self defense or to save the life of another or to save a community from war. All Harry has to do is overcome Voldemort's magical defenses. That would be no easy task, but I'll bet there are:

"Fifty Ways to Kill Old Voldy."

You can stab him in the back, Jack.
Put poison in his tea, Lee.
Shove him under the Knight Bus, Gus.

You get the idea?

HP_hedgehog
February 16th, 2007, 5:49 pm
Well, Harry can fully resist the Imperius Curse, remember? And I don't think the child who tried to kill his grandparents tried the Avada Kedavra... I think he fetched a knife from the kitchen drawer or something. But that's just my opinion:) It does weaken your evidence for the "advanced" magical possiblities while Imperiused. I do like it that there's a new theory out there:) thank you!

By the way, I think Harry will definitely not kill Voldemort, not with the Avada Kedavra. If the "No Unforgivables for you Potter" isn't enough, will he tear his soul? He also can't fight Voldemort with a wand, or there'll be a Priori Incantatem, which would be great. But Harry already won that confrontation in his 4th year, so it would be anti-climactic. He's grown. And I think killing is just beneath him. I'm more inclined to believe that Harry will somehow make a Dementor fall in love with Voldemort... or that Harry will lock him in that Love room in the Department of Mystification or something...

It is also weird how Harry tries to Crucio all of the major "I just killed one of your adult protectors" Death Eaters... he did it with Bellatrix with Sirius... with Snape with Dumbledore... I wonder if he'll do it with Malfoy when Hagrid's dead (which is speculation from my part. It's just... well, read Spinners End #7 and you will see why I believe Hagrid will die. And all of Harry's major protectors have died at the hand of Voldemort's closest followers, those who had the msot to do with the victim. Bellatrix was Sirius's cousin, Dumbledore was Snape's employer and ... Malfoy and Hagrid also have some sort of history together. What other major Death Eaters are out there? I connect Greyback with Lupin and Bill... so the only one left is Lucius, I believe. Ok, I'm getting carried away)

What I was previously trying to illustrate is that I think there are more reasons to believe that Harry won't kill Voldemort (and if you believe he will really kill him, not with the Avada Kedavra). There are so much other ways once his Horcruxes are gone. It would be very humiliating for Voldemort if he got driven over by a Mini Cooper...:p

I'm done ranting:p

mjlovegood
February 16th, 2007, 7:52 pm
You had a very interesting editorial. You are most probably right in this one thing: Harry will not be able to use the Avada Kedavra. I don't think he will win Voldemort by just being stronger and more skillful wizard. There are many passages in the books that support this, but they have been discussed in previous responses well enough, so I won't repeat it.

Your idea,that Harry would kill Voldemort is a very clever one...and that's precisely why I don't think it would happen that way. Harry will not win Voldemort by shere cleverness. That would be the Slytherin way to do itn though not necessarily a bad way. Even a Ravenclaw could try to win by inteligence, knowledge and a clever strategy. Harry, like we all know, is a Gryffindoor so he will have to win by doing something very brave. Something like his mother did.
Personally I don't believe Harry will die, but I do believe he'll have to put his life on the line and he most probably will be in a great perill of death for a while. I believe this will happen when he tries to save or defend someone else.
According to Dumbledore Harry's greatest strenght is his ability to love. The Apostle John says in the Bible: " No one has greater love than he who sacrifices his life for his friends." Thisis the quality Harry has and this will finally put an end to Voldemort, the one way or the other. I'm allmost sure of this.
I did appriciate your editorial all the same. You really picked up an important point an made a good beginning for an interesting chain.

notasquib2
February 16th, 2007, 8:00 pm
I think you are onto something, although I agree with most posters that 1) Harry resists the Imperious Curse and 2) Harry is too pure of heart to perform Avada Kadavra. After all, JKR has shown us time and again how resistent Harry is to causing death and pain (Pettigrew, Bellatrix, protecting Dudley, remorse over Sectumsempra, etc.).

When I first started reading, what I thought you were going to say in this editorial is that Harry would find a way to Imperious Voldemort and have him throw himself, either through the veil, or into the locked room of love at the Ministry. What does that locked room show? Perhaps it works like the Mirror of Erised, and everyone that a person has ever loved or been loved by appears in some form or fashion. If Voldemort and Harry enter that room together, what will each of them learn about the other? And, wouldn't it be interesting if Snape were with them? Funny if Lily showed up for him s well as Harry, somehow. I think Voldemort could be destroyed by the pain he would find in that locked room. If he died, and Harry and Snape were left standing there, then I guess it would be confession time, wouldn't it?

Oh, well, only six months to go before we know for sure!

JediWitch
February 16th, 2007, 9:03 pm
A tiny thing not mentioned in the editorial is the fact that Harry couldn't use the Cruciatus Curse against Snape either...and that was right after Snape killed Dumbledore. We figured out in Half-Blood Prince (pg. 602 US version) that one reason Harry can't use the curse is that he still can't perform curses in his head, causing Snape to block them easily. This could have been the case with Bellatrix as well.

There is one thing no one has mentioned, although we've known it for a long time...Harry survived Avada Kedavra. And supposedly, as Dumbledore said, some of Voldemort's powers are shared by Harry (i.e. Parseltongue). Could Harry be able to perform the powerful curse on his worst enemy? Or will Voldemort block an Unforgivable just as easily as anyone else?

sfgilgalad
February 16th, 2007, 9:09 pm
sorry for saying it was "stupid" ! Never leave your little sister use your computer when you're away ;)

Twycross
February 16th, 2007, 9:17 pm
Good Editorial. I do sometimes wonder whether any of us have all ready worked out what will happen and J.K is actually very nervous. What if Voldemort cast the imperious to make Harry AK himself but Harry fought it enough to point the wand at Voldemort and Bang! Just an Idea.

fields24
February 16th, 2007, 10:45 pm
Sectumsempra would be a "killing curse".
And Harry can already do that one.....

veelavouivre
February 16th, 2007, 10:47 pm
Nice editorial! Great new ideas to discuss. Though I do not agree with it like most of the other posts: Harry can't use AK for 2 reasons.
1- in the case he does it conciously he drops to Voldemort's level
2- in the case he is imperiused, it would be kind of cheating. Something as important as life and death can't depend on somebody else's will. It has to be Harry's choice and full responsibility.

What about Voldy is already "dead"? I mean, he used the poison of Harry's blood, full of love, to revive himself. It would be as if 6 parts of his soul are encased in a horcrux (which will be all destroyed by Harry one by one) and 1 part of his soul is poisoned by love through this blood. So maybe Harry won't have to finish Voldemort at all once all the horcruxes are done with?

cenzonico
February 16th, 2007, 11:45 pm
I also do not believe any of these scenarios with Harry being imperiused to use unforgivable curses will happen. I believe there will be a way that Voldemort ends up killing himself when a spell bounces back upon himself after aiming it at Harry once more and he has no horcruxes this time to keep his soul out of hell.

bigbdm14
February 17th, 2007, 2:32 am
I completely agree to the point that Harry can't cast AK. However, I think you assume a little too much. For instance, I think you assume any attempt on a life would use the AK curse. What said that the little boy was using the AK curse? You can't say people were going to use the AK curse at every attempted murder because there are still nonmagical ways (i.e. stabbing) and (most likely) many more magical ways.

krish
February 17th, 2007, 4:11 am
It's an interesting take on the events that are yet to come. However, Snape, to me, does not does not look like a person that would do such a thing, not so much kill Voldemort, but using the imperious (<i think that's how you spell it, sorry if it's incorrect) curse on Harry. Let us not forget that Snape despises Harry. Some may say that was just an act, I don't believe so.

Also, under the Imperious curse, Harry would not be 'himself' therefore, it wouldn't actually be him that vanquishes Voldemort and to me, that's not really a great way to finish off the series.


There is one thing no one has mentioned, although we've known it for a long time...Harry survived Avada Kedavra. And supposedly, as Dumbledore said, some of Voldemort's powers are shared by Harry (i.e. Parseltongue). Could Harry be able to perform the powerful curse on his worst enemy? Or will Voldemort block an Unforgivable just as easily as anyone else?

Harry survives because his mother gave her life to protect his, giving him some sort of magical protection which will cease to work the moment Harry turns 17. If Harry if attacked before he's 17, the curses may 'bounce' back, but after 17, he will be, in phycical terms, just a normal person. Also we are told in Book 4 (GoF) that there is no counter-curse for the AK.

"Moody swept the dead spider off the desk onto the floor. “Not nice,” he said calmly. “Not pleasant. And there’s no countercurse. There’s
no blocking it. Only one known person has ever survived it, and he’s sitting right in front of me.” Goblet of Fire :)

Weazleby
February 17th, 2007, 4:40 pm
Plausible. Very interesting idea. (Assuming Snape is good), him and Harry are going to have some serious "issues" to work out so Voldemort will die.
then placing a rock in front of the veil so that Voldemort trips and falls in.
Love it! (sarcasm).

sfgilgalad
February 17th, 2007, 7:26 pm
I like the idea of Voldemort being poisoned by harry's blood.
Do we know how to destroy a Horcruxe? I only know about the diary, which was "killed" with the basilisk tooth. Also, it's said he was bleeding or screaming. The objects are exactly the kind Arthur Weasley would name "object thinking on its own, you can't see its brain...". Interresting how true he was! And also how aware about this kind of objects...

dilys22
February 18th, 2007, 12:17 am
I think ---- Snape would like that very, very much!

iamsirius
February 18th, 2007, 1:40 am
Harry survives because his mother gave her life to protect his, giving him some sort of magical protection which will cease to work the moment Harry turns 17. If Harry if attacked before he's 17, the curses may 'bounce' back, but after 17, he will be, in phycical terms, just a normal person. Also we are told in Book 4 (GoF) that there is no counter-curse for the AK.




I could be wrong, but I believe Lily's protection will not end when Harry turns 17. It is Dumbledore's protection of the Dursley's home which will be lost. Voldemort cannot touch Harry while residing at the Dursley's home for any part of the year until he turns 17 because of Dumbledore's protection. Lily's blood protection is something different.

I, too, do not think Harry will be able to cast the AK regardless of being under another spell or not. Hopefully, Harry will find another way to destroy Voldemort rather than resorting to murder.

Originally posted by King

"Fifty Ways to Kill Old Voldy."

You can stab him in the back, Jack.
Put poison in his tea, Lee.
Shove him under the Knight Bus, Gus.

:lol: I love it!

MooMooImADuck
February 18th, 2007, 8:43 pm
Thank you for that refreshing and unique editorial. It was very well written, but overall, I think it was just a chain of vague assumptions. Others have already pointed out the problems with this idea and I agree with most of them.

However, I loved the bit at the end about the rock and the veil. Very funny.

TKoko
February 18th, 2007, 9:02 pm
Even though I doubt it will be as simple as a AK curse, still a good editorial. I like reading different opinions. Voldy will die by some sort of ancient magic, possible love.

Anna_bella
February 18th, 2007, 9:44 pm
Harry will not use Dark Magic to destory the Dark Lord. This is not what Dumbledore would want and I just could not help remenbering what Snape said to Potter in their duel "No forbidden curse's for you!"

Dumbledore never used Dark Magic to defeat the Dark Arts!
He used defence magic!
I believe that Harry will use defence magic not the dark arts to destory Voldemort.
Think about it Harry using Dark Magic on Voldermort would not work! Voldermort is the king of Dark Magic!

Nice theory but I don't agree with it!


I believe there is more to Dumbledore's words when he said to the Dark Lord
"There are worse things than death Tom."

charmer19
February 18th, 2007, 10:25 pm
I simply can't imagine Harry only accomplishing the destruction of Voldemort through being put under the Imperius Curse. Harry is on his own now. I'm not saying he won't have help along his journey, goodness knows he'll need it, but the victory has to be HIS. If Voldemort was killed, only using Harry as the middleman, the triumph wouldn't be complete. I believe that Harry will use the powers he has to defeat Voldemort, particularly that "power which the Dark Lord knows not." It is through Harry's power of love, not through faking his abilities, that Voldemort will be vanquished.

Liselle
February 19th, 2007, 12:46 am
2a. The goal of CoS Forums is to make sure everyone has a good time and can make friends. Obviously not everyone will agree with one another and we ask that you respect the opinions of others. Making sarcastic, or rude remarks directed at another member, or attacking others for holding views different to your own will not be tolerated.

You are free to disagree with what someone has written but please do so in a constructive manner.

plainlypotter
February 19th, 2007, 12:48 am
I wonder if an AK done under Imperius would actually work. It seems to me the Imperiused person wouldn't REALLY be feeling the desire to cause pain that Bella says is necessary; it's actually the Imperius Caster's desire.

It's still a good idea and it might turn out that way.

But I keep thinking of all the times we've heard Dumbledore say that there are worse things than death; he said it to Voldemort in the MoM in OotP. V, of course, wasn't buying it. But there are things worse than death, and I think it might be fitting if Voldemort's punishment was to experience one or more of them. Losing his magical powers permanently would be a great one.

This was what was going through my mind as well when reading this editorial. Dumbledore has reiterated over and over that Love is the most powerful magic and that Harry is so well endowed with it that it seems more likely that V's demise will be accomplished using love as a weapon or shield than for harry to use an unforgiveable curse. Although the prophesy says that neither can live while the other survives I am not certain that this means that V must die at Harry's hand directly, as I have proposed before, Harry's blood could do the trick once the horcruxes have been destroyed.

Chris
February 19th, 2007, 1:17 am
I like this editorial. I happen to think that it's an unlikely scenario, but the case that's presented is quite compelling. In an odd sort of way, I think that the rock tripping Voldy and him going thru the veil is not a bad idea - trip jinx, anyone? Something "weak" that LV doesn't anticipate? :-P.

Back to the editorial; I agree that the powers of the person who casts the Imperius spell are the key issue. Since few of the "good guys" can cast the unforgivables correctly, I think that Snape or Aberforth (did he imperius the goat?! :) ) or someone like that would need to do it. I think that Snape and Harry would have to have a major reconciliation for Snape to control Harry.

I think "the end" will come another way, but the editorial presents a nicely compelling case that in no way can be dismissed :).

dweaselqueen
February 19th, 2007, 9:03 pm
Thank you for a well-thought-out editorial, but I have to disagree for the same reasons everyone else has mentioned.
Sectumsempra would be a "killing curse".
And Harry can already do that one.....
Sectumsempra is not an Unforgivable. When Harry cast that spell, all he knew was that it was for enemies. He probably thought it would be along the same lines as the Levicorpsus (?) and other humoruos jinxes and curses he found thorughout the book. He did not know what the spell would do. We know that in order to cast a successful Unfogivable, you have to have a "powerful bit of magic behind you" and that you need to "want to cause pain" (or something like that, the book isn't in front of me).
When Harry cast the Crucio curse on Bella, he knew what it should've done, but his anger was not enough. The Sectumsepra is not an Unforgivable so the rules do not apply. It obviously does not require the desire to cause such pain because Harry could only have the desire to cause that pain if he knew what was coming. Harry was only in self-defense mode, he wasn't looking to do that to Malfoy. And you can bet that had Harry known what Sectemsempra was going to do, he wouldn't have used it. So Harry's ability to cast that spell doesn't mean that he can cast AK or Crucio successfully.
I hope you were able to follow that. :err:

Kip
February 19th, 2007, 9:33 pm
I think that the editorial and this discussion are falsely based on the premise that Harry CAN'T perform the Avada Kedavra.

We know that Harry can't perform the Cruciatus Curse (he's tried and failed twice), but we DON'T know that he can't perform the other two Unforgivable Curses. Snape mocked Harry at the end of Book 6, claiming that Harry didn't have "the nerve or ability" to cast an Unforgivable Curse. We know that Harry's got tons of "nerve" and powerful magical "ability," so we can discount Snape's taunt.

I think Bellatrix's comment at the end of Book 5 is more reliable--in order to cast the Cruciatus Curse, you have to really want to cause the other person pain. Harry can't cast the Cruciatus Curse because he does not take pleasure in torturing another person.

However, in order to cast the OTHER two Unforgivable Curses, the caster would not need to want to cause the person pain. In order to cast the Imperius Curse, the caster would need to want to control the person. In order to cast Avada Kedavra, the caster would truly want the other person to be dead, fully understanding and accepting the enormity of death. (And of course, for all three Curses, one would need to be magically powerful enough to pull them off.)

So, yes, I think Harry is capable of casting an Avada Kedavra. He is magically powerful enough to do so. He definitely wants Voldemort to die, and fully accepts what would mean.

This doesn't mean that Harry WILL cast an Avada Kedavra, just that he has the ability to do so. He may choose to vanquish Voldemort in another way. And to paraphrase Dumbledore: it's our choices, not our abilities that determine who we are.

Wimsey
February 20th, 2007, 3:51 am
I think that the solution would completely contradict the stories of Harry Potter. They all are about right vs. easy choices for Harry Potter. An Imperiused Harry has no choice: he does as he's told. The choice also would not be Harry's, but someone else's, and this sort of story will fail as literature if the ultimate choice is not made by the protagonist.

Harry will have to make some "hard" choice, just as he always has had to do, to defeat Voldemort. He'll need to understand what it means to survive but not live. He'll almost certainly need to completely understand the link between himself and Voldemort. In short, it will almost all be done in Harry's head: the physical follow through will just be the second domino.

So, yes, I think Harry is capable of casting an Avada Kedavra. He is magically powerful enough to do so. He definitely wants Voldemort to die, and fully accepts what would mean.
This might not be true. Righteous hatred was not enough to make the Cruciatus Curse work. Harry wanted to hurt Bellatrix, but not for the right reasons to perform the Cruciatus properly. Similarly, Harry wants to kill Voldemort, but probably not for the right reasons to perform AK properly.

Dumbledore: it's our choices, not our abilities that determine who we are.
This is much more like it! Harry will defeat Voldemort through a choice. Moreover, Dumbledore almost certainly has given us the basics: it will involve a choice between what is right and what is easy. AK would be easy, even if Harry could do it. The right choice will be much more risky to Harry.

sfgilgalad
February 20th, 2007, 4:23 am
i'd like to know what aberforth did to this poor goat :) probably a joke about a scottish tradition...
but yeah dumbledore's point of view is that love will destroy voldemort. He should have told harry the story about Grindelswald to give him an example.
Remember Moody's advice in book 4 : he tells Harry to fight with his best weapons. Not the other's. To Use the others weapons is the best way to compromize his best chances. So, in a way, not to use them, is the best way to make a surprize to Voldemort who thinks his powers are the strongest and so he can't be fooled. This will be the stone, and Harry's tramp will be the veil.

If not, George and Fred might put the the stone on the ground in front of the veil anyway :) that'd be funny : "at the very moment Voldemort rose his wand to send the mortal curse to fred, george pushed him on the little stone, and Voldemort lost his balance. A door banged and flew across the place. Harry entered the place, ready to fight to death, but Voldemort already had disapeared for ever behind to Veil".

embememu
February 20th, 2007, 11:32 am
You are a genius. That idea is so clever and I had never thought of it before. One of the best editorials I've read in a while. I personally think that Harry won't kill Voldemort, just somehow destroy his powers. Oh well. well done.

Spoiler
February 21st, 2007, 3:13 pm
"Fifty Ways to Kill Old Voldy."

You can stab him in the back, Jack.
Put poison in his tea, Lee.
Shove him under the Knight Bus, Gus.

You get the idea?

:lol: Did you make that up yourself?

PolyesterRage
February 22nd, 2007, 2:15 am
I like this article for the fact that it isn't an idea that's completely played out. However, I don't think that it is and accuracte theory.

But good job!

Cherina
February 24th, 2007, 5:40 pm
yeah... well... i'm not very enthusiastic about that idea... it's way too complicated... why can't Harry just throw a dagger to Voldermort's heart?! Is it necessary that he kills the Dark Lord by using an unforgivable curse?

sfgilgalad
February 25th, 2007, 6:28 am
Power is not the ability to kill someone. Power is the ability not to kill someone, even when your life is in danger. That's what's going to make the difference. The question is not How Will Harry Kill Voldemort? The question is : how is he going to show Voldemort's power is weaker than his, and where will he find the ressources to reach this goal, so no one tries to follow Voldemort's path.
This editorial is thought the way Death Eaters and Voldemort think.

yappa1
March 5th, 2007, 6:02 am
Harry did not die the first time he faced the AK, but it nearly killed Voldy. If Voldy tries it again he will die this time , while Harry is willing to give up his life to save a friend. Love will protect him and his friends. Voldy doesn't understand this. Good-bye Voldy hello Harry.

Secretsmilz13
March 23rd, 2007, 11:11 pm
I just remembered something: that Harry and Malfoy (draco) are parallel characters. They're parallel in many ways, and while we all know that one way they are parallel was that Harry had to kill Voldemort, and Malfoy had to kill Dumbeldore. Those two wizards are the most powerful, and probably the hardest to kill. Dumbledore is dead now, and while I know Malfoy wasn't the one who fired the shot, he certianly loaded the gun. I know that he didn't really want to; he was just doing it to save his family; but if he didn't fix that vanishing cabinet, i doubt Snape would've killed dumbledore that night.
I think Harry's situation will be the same; he won't actually KILL Voldemort. Yes, he'll load the gun by finding and destroying the remaining horcruxes, but maybe he won't actually fire the shot either. Maybe he'll discover he's a horcrux and have to kill himself beforehand....(or maybe not, just a thought.....)
I think Snape is good. I think Harry will find Snape somewhere in the adventure, or maybe at the final battle, where he'll finish the job, just like he finished Malfoy's job. Imagine that Snape, the double agent who nobody knew where his loyalties lay, be the one to kill the two most powerful wizards of all time.........that would be a good ending...chew on that....

sfgilgalad
March 24th, 2007, 8:20 am
no that wouldnt be a good ending. I would really miss the days I hadn't read the 7th book yet. Naaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa Harry's gotta kill him. And we all know from the first book that he will, no? After all, that's all what this book is about : how a young nice wizard is gunna kill the bad wizard. This is a book meant to be read by children, who get more or less adult. The purpose of the book would be meaningless if Harry is not the one who fights voldemort to the end. Then, whether he wins, spare, or loose... This is the author's choice. 1.000.000.000.000 pounds Harry wins in the end. But that doesn't mean we can't play metafisic/psycologic/moral/spiritual games.