Why did Voldemort try to kill Harry?

harryton
July 25th, 2002, 8:30 pm
the question is:

Why was Voldemort going to kill Harry in the first place?

Please try to follow the Rules on posting, and include proper capitalization.

Sat0shi
July 26th, 2002, 1:59 am
Voldy was trying to kill off the last of the Gryffindor lineage by killing Harry.

~~sat~~

jaded
July 26th, 2002, 2:07 am
decent theory, sat ;) Maybe he just figured that after killing his parents, why not kill the kid too? and now he wants revenge on Harry for causing his downfall. He also wants to prove he's stronger. that's just what I think :)

TheSortingHat
July 26th, 2002, 2:24 am
I think that there's got to be another reason. Remember, Voldemort says that Lily needn't have died - and Dumbledore confirms, by refusing to answer Harry's question, that it was really Harry he was after.

Personally, I think that it had something to do with Professor Trelawney's first prediction. But what was that prediction?

TheSortingHat

Anne
July 26th, 2002, 2:30 am
I agree that it probably had something to do with Trelawny's first prediction. I'm sure there's a lot behind all this that we haven't figured out yet. I'd also like to state, once again, for the record that under no circumstances do I believe Harry is the heir of Gryffindor, nor is that why Voldemort wanted to kill him. Sorry, I had to say it. :smile:

Kneazle
July 26th, 2002, 2:51 am
I, too, think that Trelawney's first prediction had something to do with it. Killing Harry was a crucial step in Voldemort's quest to world domination. I think he knew Harry would be a threat to him, or something of that sort.

jaded
July 26th, 2002, 2:54 am
true, but here's something I've been wondering: Was his main focus killing Lily and James, Harry, or all of them? It seems to be his parents, but perhaps not.

Anne
July 26th, 2002, 2:58 am
I disagree, jaded. I can't for the life of me remember where it was, but I think it was made pretty clear the Voldy was just looking for Harry. Lily and James simply got in the way. :sad:

harryton
July 26th, 2002, 3:11 am
thats right. so thats why i asked the question.

its weird how JKR came up with this story.

somehow she is going to explain it soon.

i think its getting more complex instead of getting more answers.

Valerie
July 26th, 2002, 3:12 am
I don't think he's the heir of Gryffindor, 1 heir is enough for the series, and I think the parents were just in Voldy's way, he wanted Harry and I think that Trelawny's first prediction has something to do with it.

jaded
July 26th, 2002, 3:16 am
but then what of the rumors that have Harry's parents as aurors? of course they are just rumors. I do want to know, then, what Voldemort's motive was... :shrug:

Morgoth
July 26th, 2002, 4:19 pm
Originally posted by Valerie
I don't think he's the heir of Gryffindor, 1 heir is enough for the series, and I think the parents were just in Voldy's way, he wanted Harry and I think that Trelawny's first prediction has something to do with it.

I think Harry already had special powers gifted to him by blood line or possibly by a group of good wizards. I've often wondered whether Harry was selected as a baby to be given special abilities to face the dark lord when he was old enough, should Voldemort succeed in taking over. Voldy found out about this and decided he had to kill Harry, because Harry was an obstacle he couldn't afford to have alive, so best kill him as a child than fight him as an adult.

That may seem far fetched. I guess it's easier to view him as the heir of Gryffindor, but I just find that to be a little cheap. I agree with Val. One is enough.

Peter
July 26th, 2002, 6:06 pm
I have always belift, that Voldemort went after Harry's parents (Lilly and James) BEcause they where standing in his way.
Lilly and James have ben stampeled as Voldemort fighters since the first book, and I belive killing Harry was a try of a smart move.
This move didnt sucseed. (As we know.)

If you have been punshed in the face, isnt it rare if you dont punsh back?
Well, not if your "sivilized" as we are, but look at it from the perspective of Voldemort.
He is the one to hunt down Harry, after Harry punshed Voldemort in his face. Now he want to punsh back.

Maybe Harry was lucky, maybe its more to him than we know?
Maybe I diddnt get the point with the thread?

Manyasha
July 26th, 2002, 6:15 pm
I agree that the idea of Harry being Gryffindor's heir is too simple to be true. :yup: Voldemort wouldn't bother to kill an average wizard. Death eaters would do it for him. There was something special in Harry and maybe James so that Voldemort decided to kill them himself.

Emma
July 27th, 2002, 11:51 pm
I just finished listening to the First set of Tapes. I had forgotten half the stuff. Anyway, It does state that Lilly didn't have to die, that she died to protect Harry. Voldemort was after Harry and not Lilly.
Maybe he had a Thing for Lilly. Maybe she was going to go to the Dark side but decided to protect the Kid instead,cause she wanted him to stay good.

Don't Know,

Anne
July 28th, 2002, 1:23 am
Ok, here's my humble theory. Trelawney's first prediction was made to Tom Riddle while he was at Hogwarts, and it said that he, Tom, would grow to be the most powerful Dark Wizard the world had ever seen and that Harry Potter would be the only wizard powerful enough to stop him. Jump to 1981. Voldemort has learned that James and Lily Potter have named their son Harry. He hunts them down so that he can kill Harry while he's still a baby and can't make use of his amazing powers. But Voldy can't kill Harry because Lily put some kind of ancient magic on him that saved him. Little does Voldy realize that Harry was not born with extraordinary powers. All the power Trelawney was talking about got transferred to Harry from Voldy with the curse that failed. It was a self-fulfilling prophecy. So Harry and Voldy now have equal powers. But because Harry has bravery and the friendship of DD, Hagrid, Ron, and Hermione he has the advantage and is able to destroy Voldy whose allies follow out of fear, not courage.

Kneazle
July 28th, 2002, 2:53 am
Nice theory, Anne. :tu:

harryton
July 28th, 2002, 3:50 am
well Voldermort wasnt after Harry's mother or father. He was after Harry Potter himself, but we dont know why. Lilly got in Voldemorts way and thats what gave harry the scar, love and courage from his mother.

LewsTherin
July 28th, 2002, 5:01 am
Here's my theory.

I think Trelawney's first prediction, as has been said, was probably made in front of either Tom Riddle or James. The prediction was in the form of a prophecy and said that There would be a Dark Lord but that one would be born who would have the power to defeat him, and who would become the greatest wizard of all time.

So, Voldy found out about this or heard this, and when he learns that the Potters have had a son he goes to kill him. Obviously, he can't let the man who will defeat him live. James dies because he tries to fight, and so does Lily. Lily's sacrifice saves Harry, though this magic was only possible because she knew he had more power than any living wizard (and that's my theory as to why it worked so well).

Thus, Harry will grow up, kill Voldemort, and bring a new era to the wizarding world. The abilites Voldy gave Harry are just a bonus.

I think that's basically what Trelawney said and why Voldy wants Harry dead.

Manyasha
July 28th, 2002, 1:19 pm
:yup: These theories make sense.:tu:

Peter
July 28th, 2002, 6:56 pm
Now, I dont remember any details of the "prediction" if there ever was?

On the idea of Voldemort having a liking for Lilly, and maybe Lily for Voldemort. Theres one thing to say.
Why ohh why would'nt Voldemort and Lilly go for each other, and bring Harry with them as their kid?
We learnt in the first year(book, movie) that Voldemort would have Harry Potter on his side.
Why wouldent Voldemort try to achive such a thing while Harry was a kid then, it would be twice as easy.
The reason is, That Voldemort would never have a liking for Lily, and that he in the first year tried to trick Harry to his side, for using him.
As easy as that.

I like the idea off Voldemort beeing out after Lilly and James, because they where a threet against him. And what do person do agaisnt their threets? They get rid of them.

Harry was lucky, survived. And he is now the target of Voldemort.
Or is he?

We got zero knowledge to what realy happend, maybe we will get later, maybe we wont?
The only thing im very sure of, is that we will get to know every thing we need to know about Harry Potter, his parents, Voldemort and how every thing happend. As its part off the story.

TheShadow
July 29th, 2002, 12:29 pm
I think that Harry was a threat to Voldermort so he tried to kill him.

Alicia_Potter
July 30th, 2002, 3:52 pm
Where does it say that James never had to die? I just remember that Lily didn't have to. I mean, it makes sense that he didn't, but I just remember reading that. Anyway, I agree with everybody that it was probably Professor Trelawney's prediction. But how old is she? Dumbledore was fifty years younger at the time, so unless professor Trelawney was a student when she gave the prediction to Tom, she has to be pretty old as well. For some reason, it just never hit me that she was that old.

harryton
August 3rd, 2002, 1:35 am
Originally posted by Valerie
I don't think he's the heir of Gryffindor, 1 heir is enough for the series, and I think the parents were just in Voldy's way, he wanted Harry and I think that Trelawny's first prediction has something to do with it.

sorry but whats a Heir?

thanksssamigo
August 3rd, 2002, 1:58 am
We learnt in the first year(book, movie) that Voldemort would have Harry Potter on his side.

Actually, if I am correct, Voldemort only asked Harry to join him in the movie and not the book. I dunno maybe I'm wrong but I don't recall that actually happening. Anyway, I think James was probably a threat to Voldemort also, otherwise wouldn't Voldemort have said in his account of the incident that James needn't have died also? I mean he said that about Lily but I don't think he said that about James. Maybe it was just a cover up of the fact that Harry, a little boy was the threat and not James a 23 (22 maybe) year old, fully trained wizard.

Ronman
November 7th, 2002, 5:12 am
I think it has something to do with Voldemort would want to kill them all for, like:
Lilly had an affair with Voldemort and Harry was their child, NOT James's son, so he killed him for Marring Lilly, Lilly for Marring James and Harry because he knew his son would have more powers than him.
:'(

kgonekrazy
November 7th, 2002, 6:59 am
I agree with the self fulling prophecy theory, but I also have another theory to offer.
Voldemort's goal was immortality. This seems to be first on his agenda. So is easy to conclude that he will stop any threat to his well being, which ties in with the whole self fulling prophecy (assuming that Harry was predicted to kill him), but this ALSO means that he would under go dangerous magical transformations to reach immortality. So I offer you this, what if there was something special about Harry that could help Voldemort reach immortality. Lets assume for a minute that Harry is the Gryffindor heir. Maybe there was spell that needed use of Harry blood or flesh, such as the blood of all four heirs combined would yield great power to one. After all in GoF Voldemort said that Harry's blood would give him more power then any other wizard.

Samwise
November 7th, 2002, 9:28 am
Originally posted by Anne
Ok, here's my humble theory. Trelawney's first prediction was made to Tom Riddle while he was at Hogwarts, and it said that he, Tom, would grow to be the most powerful Dark Wizard the world had ever seen and that Harry Potter would be the only wizard powerful enough to stop him. Jump to 1981. Voldemort has learned that James and Lily Potter have named their son Harry. He hunts them down so that he can kill Harry while he's still a baby and can't make use of his amazing powers. But Voldy can't kill Harry because Lily put some kind of ancient magic on him that saved him. Little does Voldy realize that Harry was not born with extraordinary powers. All the power Trelawney was talking about got transferred to Harry from Voldy with the curse that failed. It was a self-fulfilling prophecy. So Harry and Voldy now have equal powers. But because Harry has bravery and the friendship of DD, Hagrid, Ron, and Hermione he has the advantage and is able to destroy Voldy whose allies follow out of fear, not courage.

That's just so great..........I wrote exactly the same on another board a few weeks ago (well not all of it.......but the part with Trelawney's prediction and the self-fulfilling prophecy).

Also to support your theory (my theory) is the fact that it's classic storytelling technique - from Oedipus to Star Wars.

Nice to know that somebody else supports this theory and as a bonus, it wipes out that whole Lily/Voldemort/James love-triangle, which I always found too corny.

Godfather Sirius Black
November 7th, 2002, 7:09 pm
He knew his parents were great wizards and thought great things of him??? I mean he's a great wizard, you can' say that's all because of the power transfered in his scar.

Puffskein
November 9th, 2002, 6:35 pm
I've got no idea, but I'm looking forward to finding out. One thing I won't believe is that Voldemort is Harry's father, because 1) It's too Star Wars and 2) Harry looks more like James Potter than Tom Riddle.

bjackm
November 10th, 2002, 5:46 am
But JK did go out of the way to prove that Harry shared my characteristics with Tom Riddle.

I'm personally torn between the fact the he's the Heir of Gryffindor (thus explaining Voldemort's need to kill James, too), and the fact that Trewlawney's first prediction could have been this so called prophecy. But I personally believe that Grindelwald somehow ties into all of this. Does it every say how old Trewlawney is? Perhaps, he first prediction involved Grindelwald. We know that Riddle was at Hogwarts just years before Grindelwald was defeated. Perhaps Riddle was his apprentice.

Fuchsia
November 10th, 2002, 5:48 am
I've said this before but I think it was because Harry is a Potter.

Eilonwy Granger
November 13th, 2002, 9:25 pm
Well, one thing I find interesting is that we're supposed to find out something major about Lily in the next book. I agree that one heir is enough, but is it possible that she wasn't quite as Muggle-born as we think? If she conferred something special to Harry, Voldemort, bigot that he is, might have assumed it was coming from James since a Muggle-born witch couldn't possibly be a threat on her own. This could explain why Voldemort felt James and Harry had to die, but not Lily.

mystically_mad
November 14th, 2002, 9:26 am
I'm personally torn between the fact the he's the Heir of Gryffindor (thus explaining Voldemort's need to kill James, too), and the fact that Trewlawney's first prediction could have been this so called prophecy. But I personally believe that Grindelwald somehow ties into all of this. Does it every say how old Trewlawney is? Perhaps, he first prediction involved Grindelwald. We know that Riddle was at Hogwarts just years before Grindelwald was defeated. Perhaps Riddle was his apprentice.


that is a really cool idea. maybe that is why dumbledore is the only wizard voldemort is afraid of, because dumbledore defeated his master

lanifiel
November 14th, 2002, 9:32 am
Maybe there was just adeep need for vengence agasint the Potter name. Perhaps James was one of the foremost in the fight agasint the Death Eaters and thus was a high profile target to eliminate to decrease support for the fight against Voldemort. To further along the terror, he decided to end the life of the Potter Line by killing off Harry as well...

Potterjohn
November 14th, 2002, 8:40 pm
I think it states that Voldemort wasnt after Lily, only James and Harry. They may be desendents (sp?) of G. Gryfindor..

mystically_mad
November 15th, 2002, 9:49 am
is there any proof about that? besides harry pulling out the sword that was g. griffindor and dumbledore telling harry that only a true griffindor could do that. maybe its dumbledore who is griffindors heir. look at the last part of each name. 'dor' and 'dore'

lanifiel
November 15th, 2002, 10:04 am
Yes but if we take Harrys last name and add two to each character and then minus the positive square root of 14 then we get... Lets not read to much into names! I'm sure there will things that will be explained in greater detail...

timmay
November 15th, 2002, 10:15 am
Voldemorte didnt say face to face to Harry to join the darkside, but came to him in a dream the first night he was at hogwarts,

like the self-fulfilling prophecy thing ties up a few ends.

agree with the way to star wars, harry i am your father.

Katze
November 22nd, 2002, 5:03 pm
This is a curious thing though...Voldemort wasn't going to kill Lily. He killed James, and then went after Harry, but not Lily. Because Lily didn't back down, she lost her life. But Voldemort himself said that she need not die (I think in GoF).

This brings up two things to consider:
We don't know that James didn't lose his life for the same reason Lily did. He could've died simply because he stood in the way of V physically getting to Harry, not that he posed a threat. If Harry were the heir (which I think is a little obvious for Rowling to use), then James would also be an heir if Harry died. So it could be that V was intending on killing James and Harry because of the heirship. But I believe that V was only after Harry, not James.

Why wasn't V going to kill Lily even though she was a muggleborn? His hatred for muggle-borns should have alone sealed her fate, but he was going to spare her life. Why? What's the connection? Perhaps Lily had information or talents that he wanted to use. Lily's wand is good for charm work, and we also see that some of her ancient magic was used to save Harry. Maybe her charms are key to V's immortality.

I'm actually waiting for a connection between Dumbledore and Lily. Dumbledoe also invokes ancient magic to protect Harry - perhaps Lily was his apprentice?

SiriuslyBria
November 22nd, 2002, 11:14 pm
My thoughts since COS have been that Voldemort, as the Heir of Slytherin, wanted to kill the last of the Gyffindor bloodline, which I am certain Harry is heir to. Perhaps he went after James but failed? Then he and Lily had a child and so the child became the new target? That's what I'm inclined to believe.

Cheshire
November 23rd, 2002, 1:40 am
Wow, ok, well after reading most of these posts, you all have really cool theories. As for me, well I dunno. The whole Gryffindor vs Slytherin thign makes lots of sense, but as was mentioned, it's too obvious! JKR always surprises us, so I dunno if that's it. I can't wait to find out the asnwer to this questions tho! The suspense is killing me!

felicity
January 9th, 2003, 8:20 am
hello.
in the 4th book, i started to wonder why did you know who go after the potters in the first place?
i sorta dont get it. has anyone ever asked this aswell?
i hope someone thinks about this and answers it soon!
huggles
felicity:angel:

venus1818
January 9th, 2003, 8:26 am
I think that almost everyone has asked that question.
The most popular theory is the "Harry, heir of Gryffindor" theory. There are threads on that, if you want to read them.
There is this weird theory that Voldemort was in love with Lily, which I think is kind of silly.
Another theory (and this one much more logical), is that Tom Riddle went to Hogwarts at the same time than Harry's granparents (James' parents) and something happened back then that made him hate the Potters.
Anyway, these are nothing but theories, we won't know for sure until we hear it from JKR's mouth.

http://www.jamiefrost.co.uk/whoareyou/topbanner/cat.gifhttp://www.jamiefrost.co.uk/whoareyou/topbanner/po.gif
http://www.jamiefrost.co.uk/whoareyou/hp/cobanner.gif
http://www.jamiefrost.co.uk/whoareyou/hp/hubanner.gif
www.jamiefrost.co.uk/whoareyou

GlassRoses314
January 9th, 2003, 8:27 am
We should be finding out in book 5

felicity
January 9th, 2003, 8:28 am
i hope so!!

lanifiel
January 9th, 2003, 9:06 am
I believe that James was a leader in opposition against Voldemort...

Jonah
January 9th, 2003, 11:38 am
I'm not quite sure on Harry being the heir of Gryffindor, but it does make sense since Voldemort went after James AND Harry, and would've ignored Lily if she hadn't sacrificed herself. So it's like James and Harry were the heirs or whatnot. And it'd be just like JKR to do something like that - including in the bits about the heirs of Slytherin and Gryffindor. She mentioned how her books have little subtle hints that are so subtle you might not recognize them as one. Perhaps the Sorting Hat's song isn't just for fun...?

Justin Etre
January 9th, 2003, 11:46 am
lanifiel, maybe all the couples killed were part of the 'old crowd', the order of the phoenix, who were protecting the potters because they were the heirs of Gryffindor (James and Harry).

Yomegy
January 9th, 2003, 4:28 pm
<u>I am pretty sure about the heir theory...</u>
1) Because Voldemort only wanted to kill James and Harry and it was less important for him to kill Lily
2) Harry took out the griffyindor sword out of the sorting hat which only a "true gryffindor" would be able to do
3) Harry was sorted into Gryffindor (duh!)
4) When Harry got his wand red and gold sparks flew out, and those are Gryff colors...
5)They lived in Godric Hallow (and as mugglenet says- Godric Who? Godric Gryffindor of cours)

I really doubt the Voldemoret :crush: Lily thing is true...

and about James being in the 'old' crowd id obvious, but I think Voldemort wanted them spicificly (sp) because they were the last of the Gryff heir and he was afraid of them...

Emma
January 9th, 2003, 4:34 pm
Maybe it is a first male born theory.

medboy76
January 9th, 2003, 7:05 pm
My theory is that Voldemort saw something in a premonition or apparation (perhaps he is a master of Divination) which made him feel that Harry was a threat and needed to be killed. In Harry's Dementor visions, Voldemort doesn't seem all that interested in James and Lily. It just seemed like Harry was the primary and possilby only target that Voldemort had that night.

Essbee
January 10th, 2003, 4:35 pm
I like the 'heir of Gryffindor' theory but I also think that James, if he was anything like Harry, was probably very outspoken in his opposition to Voldemort. Or maybe he did something to annoy Voldie some other way...

Moah
January 10th, 2003, 5:00 pm
My first idea (though i hadn't read the whole series then) was Harry was really Voldemort's son, through using dark magic or something like that... Voldemort fearing that Harry would become the heir of Slytherin in his stead would decide to kill Hary to preclude that. Harry looking so much like his parents and other details in the following books squash the theory...

Another theory of mine is this: The divination teach had TWO real premonitions, we know about one, but what if the other was uttered in the presence of Tommy boy, about Harry killing (or defeating him) and him wanting to prevent that?

Essbee
January 10th, 2003, 5:10 pm
But then DD wouldn't know that it was real, because it hadn't happened yet...

Moah
January 10th, 2003, 11:44 pm
Well the kind of "transe" she gets in when giving a real foretelling is VERY different from her usual hocus-pocus. That would give a pretty good indication about it. Best proof: Harry spotted it as real immediately, though he believed her a big fraud!

Tcieneb Delonra
January 11th, 2003, 12:53 am
I believe the heir of Gryffindor theory, because it makes so much sense. Voldemort wanted to kill the heir of gryffindor so he could be more powerful, so he goes after Harry when he is a baby, but still through 4 books he can not kill Harry, and he is supposed to be the most powerful wizard (along with dunbledore).

Justin Etre
March 4th, 2003, 1:38 pm
Either Harry was a serious threat to him, i.e.being the heir of Gryffindor or he just wanted to make a clean job of it, not leave any witnesses.

Maybe he thought he was doing the boy a favous, after killing his parents because they wouldn't join him or something he wanted to kill harry because he knew how awful it was to grow up with no parents (especially if they were killed)

Ronman
March 6th, 2003, 5:28 am
I Have A New One
What If,
Harry, (If His Parents Lived) Turned To Be A Evil Dark Wizard, Even Worse Than Voldemort.

phedre
March 7th, 2003, 8:06 am
Here are my thoughts: what if Harry does have like more powers than a normal wizard but is also the Heir of Gryffindor? I mean if you think about it this could be why Voldemort wanted to kill Harry, and it could also be why he wanted to kill James. Because like it says in Socerer's Stone Lily didn't need to die.

So maybe Trelawney's first prediction had to do with James being the one to bring about Voldemort's downfall and that is why Voldemort killed him. By killing James though that would put the responsibility on James' son Harry and that would be why Voldemort wanted to kill Harry. I mean this is just a thought. If you think about it though Harry could possibly be the Heir of Gryffindor, I mean he has a lot of the qualities that Godric Gryffindor had (if you think about it). Harry is a true Gryffindor because he did pull the sword out of the Sorting Hat. But this whole thing is just a theory.

Euthrel
March 7th, 2003, 8:24 am
Hmm..
Quite a good question...
Really hard to know actually...

Maybe he was so smart that he realised that he would be a threat later on?

He was the kid of two powerfull magicians....

Picko
March 7th, 2003, 10:42 am
So maybe Trelawney's first prediction had to do with James being the one to bring about Voldemort's downfall and that is why Voldemort killed him. By killing James though that would put the responsibility on James' son Harry and that would be why Voldemort wanted to kill Harry. I mean this is just a thought. If you think about it though Harry could possibly be the Heir of Gryffindor, I mean he has a lot of the qualities that Godric Gryffindor had (if you think about it). Harry is a true Gryffindor because he did pull the sword out of the Sorting Hat. But this whole thing is just a theory.

Harry actually has qualities that belong to every house and he has them in abundance. I really don't like the "heir" theories, I personally don't see what would be the importance of being a "heir" to any of the founders. They were powerful wizards of course but genetics work in strange ways - that's why there is muggle-borns and squibs.

Guardian Angel
March 7th, 2003, 10:52 am
Originally posted by Anne (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=1980#post1980))
Ok, here's my humble theory. Trelawney's first prediction was made to Tom Riddle while he was at Hogwarts, and it said that he, Tom, would grow to be the most powerful Dark Wizard the world had ever seen and that Harry Potter would be the only wizard powerful enough to stop him.


Reminds me of Hercules... You know Hades aka Voldemort, Hercules aka Harry. ;)

go_anna40
March 7th, 2003, 12:12 pm
Yeah, I guess Voldermort wanted to get rid of people that stood in his way. And when he killed James and Lily, I guess he kind of went Might as well kill off their kid, he might become like his parents. But he failed.

Or to kill the Gryffindor line.
Or maybe he had a preminition about it, and specifically went out to kill him.

All will be revealed...soon...I hope.

black&potter
March 27th, 2003, 1:35 am
well i have read the first four books several times (working on my 7th) there is no exact reason other than they are close friends with Dumbledore (Voldemorts fears him) and have always been well know to Oppose the dark arts Also Lily potter was a mudblood this has a lot too do with it i believe the fifth book will explain it more....

MadMagic
March 27th, 2003, 1:41 am
I think that James was heavily involved in the fight against voldemort and for some reason or another Voldemort was told that a male Potter would be his downfall. I'm not so sure I buy any of the heir theories but they are possible. This is the main mystery of the story, which I hope is answered soon.

Padfoot127
March 27th, 2003, 1:50 am
It's really unknown, but we'll find out in the next book, hopefully, as Harry learns "everything" from Dumbledore! :)

rotsiepots
March 27th, 2003, 8:48 am
I'm going to merge this thread with a similar topic entitled Why did Voldemort try to kill Harry? (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?s=&threadid=102)

If another admin/mod thinks these threads should remain separate, please split the thread. :)

ninny
March 27th, 2003, 11:36 am
as it has been speculated before, maybe he knew harry was powerful and he didn't want a compitition.

hermiones mum
March 27th, 2003, 12:29 pm
Harry was only a year old, how could he know how powerful he would/could be? he could have taken after his aunt and been non magical.

Or could Harry have tried stopping the murder of his father, causing Voldemort to realise he would ultimately have to face him too! Harry does do magic when he is highly emotional without a wand :wow:

smartypants
March 27th, 2003, 2:31 pm
Best guess so far in my opinion is that Professor Trelawney predicted that Harry was going to be Voldemorts downfall, so he went after Harry. He didn't really have to kill either James nor Lily, but they both died protecting Harry.

This theory explains why Whatshisname would try to kill a one year old kid, as well as explaining what Sybils first real prediction was. So I like it. Ties it up nicely.
:D

Auri DeMeer
March 27th, 2003, 6:20 pm
Here's my theory...

Why did Voldemort want to kill Harry?
He was the last step to reach immortality.

If Voldemort had succeeded in getting the Philosophers Stone in Book 1, he wouldn't have had to try and kill Harry once more; that's why he said, "Don't be a fool, better save your own life and join me".

He didn't get the stone, so he still has to kill him to reach immortality.

Why did he want to kill James?
He was also a step to become immortal.

Why did he kill Lily?
The only reason I can think why he didn't want to kill her is, because she was a powerful Death Eater for whom Voldemort had plans. This can be part of the "terrible truth" Dumbledore talks about in Book 1.

(I think Lily was kind of "evil" even when she was a child, and that's why her sister Petunia is so afraid of magic.)

Of course her mother instinct was bigger and she died to protect her son.

Hpmons
March 27th, 2003, 6:55 pm
I believe that the prediction was that an heir of Gryffindor would determine the fall of Vol, becuase that explains why he didnt have to kill Lily. Although it isnt actually said, it gives the impression that James had to die.

smartypants
March 28th, 2003, 10:29 am
Originally posted by Auri DeMeer (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=234319#post234319))
Here's my theory...

Why did Voldemort want to kill Harry?
He was the last step to reach immortality.

If Voldemort had succeeded in getting the Philosophers Stone in Book 1, he wouldn't have had to try and kill Harry once more; that's why he said, "Don't be a fool, better save your own life and join me".

He didn't get the stone, so he still has to kill him to reach immortality.

Why did he want to kill James?
He was also a step to become immortal.

Why did he kill Lily?
The only reason I can think why he didn't want to kill her is, because she was a powerful Death Eater for whom Voldemort had plans. This can be part of the "terrible truth" Dumbledore talks about in Book 1.

(I think Lily was kind of "evil" even when she was a child, and that's why her sister Petunia is so afraid of magic.)

Of course her mother instinct was bigger and she died to protect her son.


In what way would killing James and Harry be a step on being immortal. Thaat theory doesn't explain anything, it just requires even more explaining! :)

Buff
March 29th, 2003, 6:43 am
Ok, my theory is one I haven't seen here... and I'm basing it on two things... #1 we're finding out something "huge" about Lily Potter and #2 we don't really know much about Lily's home life (other than what we know from Petunia).

I put it to you.... what if Lily were adopted? And what if.... Voldemort is somehow related to her? It would explain Voldemort's reluctance to kill her. Voldy would HATE that she married James, one of Dumbledore's supporters... and hence, he would hate any fruit of that union - ie Harry. It would particularly gall him that Harry, being the offspring of two "great wizards" (head boy and girl in their time at Hogwarts), with Voldemort's own blood running through his veins, could conceivably be more powerful than Voldemort. With Voldy's paranoia about anyone standing in the way of his true ambition (to acheive immortality), an equally powerful wizard, not to mention younger and stronger, would definitely give him reason to want Harry out of the way.

Someone earlier mentioned the possibility that Lily was involved with the Death Eaters - I like this theory too... especially if Lily knew of her heritage and wanted to go along with her grandfather's (???) plans, until she learnt the full extent of them, which is when and why she moved to DD's camp.

Like many of you, I don't like the heir of Gryffindor theory... nor do I believe Voldy went after James for any other reason other than he stood between V and Harry. I DO, however, like going out on limbs with my theories (lol), and I admit this one is a stretch, but I think Lily's past is going to be a large part of why Voldemort went after Harry in the first place. The biggest hole in my theory is why Lily was placed with a Muggle family when Voldemort's hatred of Muggles is well-known... perhaps he didn't know???

**Standing by to have my theory picked to pieces LOL!!!

dewspot
March 30th, 2003, 6:37 am
Was wondering about the Heir of Gryffindor theory and was wondering if anyone knows what makes the Gryffindors so special? Wouldn't Voldemort want the heirs of Hufflepuff and Ravenclaw dead too? I've read the books but don't remember any mention of the other house decendants. Arn't they special too? Just curious on some of your thoughts on that.

Potter80
March 30th, 2003, 6:42 am
They all founded Hogwarts together, but Slytherin and Gryffindor had a bunch of arguments about selection. Slytherin would probably want all his heirs dead.

supergirly
March 30th, 2003, 7:27 pm
I thought I would throw in my thoughts, but I hope no-one's already said all of this cuz I haven't had time to read every post! I think we're missing the point with discussing who Voldie came to kill, (Just Harry, just his parents or both). The issue for me is why didn't he want to kill Lily? Here is my theory, whether you like it or not! It's based on my belief that Lily is the key to the books and that she, (not Harry or James), is the one conneccted directly to Voldie:

Trelawny makes her prediction to Tom Riddle but the prediction is not about Harry directly, but something to the effect of 'the man who makes Lily pregnant will be his down-fall' (F.Y.I. that's a very simplified version).

So Voldie goes away, passes a few years becoming pure evil :devil:, stuff like that and then . . . he hears that Lily's had a son by none other than James Potter, (shock horror!) He comes back, tracks them down and kills James. Now he thinks maybe he should do away with the boy as well, a) to make sure that this curse hasn't been passed on and b) to get rid of every last trace of James Potter from the World. But stupid Lily wont move, so he has to kill her as well.

Now he has the added grudge against Harry; in Voldie's eyes, Harry made him kill Lily needlessly. The big question for me is what was the bond between Lily and Voldie? What do you think guys and gals?

Kristus_Vesanus
March 30th, 2003, 8:19 pm
Alright, here's my ideas. I think that Voldemort didn't try to kill Lily because he knew that she wouldn't put up a fight and he just wanted to kill Harry as soon as possible because perhaps, Harry frightened him....just a thought....

Potter80
March 30th, 2003, 11:08 pm
Voldemort was probably already in power when James and Lily were at school. He was gaining in power for about twelve years wasn't he? That would definetly put James and Lily in school at the time.

Starseyer
March 31st, 2003, 12:45 pm
Here is my explanation for why Voldemort tried to kill Harry. He heard about Trelawney's prophecy about Harry and his magical potential and went after the Potters with the original intention of kidnapping Harry and raising him in the dark arts. And naturally he would also want to have control of him. But Lily's self-sacrafice made it so Voldie could't touch him, so then he decided to kill him. It's like "If I can't have him, not one can." And that's when the curse backfired and, well, you know the story . . . ;D

GlassRoses314
March 31st, 2003, 12:51 pm
Haha that's funny... it really made me laugh lol

crafty girl
March 31st, 2003, 5:06 pm
Well, if Voldemort had remembered the ancient magic that Lily had invoked enough to know he couldn't touch him because of it, wouldn't he have remembered what would happen if he tried to kill him?

Guardian Angel
March 31st, 2003, 5:22 pm
Starseyer, I wanted to ask you - how did Voldey hear about Trelawney's prophecy?

Llopin
March 31st, 2003, 5:39 pm
Althought your theory can be reasoned, it's very doubtful. I think Voldie wouldn't have tried to raise Harry in the dark arts just because he had heard about Trelwney's prediction (this part makes no sense, why, where, etc did he hear them). He knew it was Gryffindor blood and he doesn't like Gryffindors, at least I think he wouldn't have taught anyone of that house.

i wish i knew
March 31st, 2003, 5:43 pm
I think he would teach him if he heard he would be one day powerful, but i DONT think it would have been trelewany who told himwhy would anyone listen to her?

familiar
March 31st, 2003, 6:02 pm
Nothing has been said in the books about Trelawney making such a prediction.

Ezra Pippen
March 31st, 2003, 6:10 pm
Also-I don't think he'd take the risk of raising another wizard in such a way that the child would have the same views as Voldemort-such a child would be an usurper. Voldie doesn't want an heir or a protege because he plans on lasting forever-he won't need anybody to follow in his footsteps.

Buttercup
March 31st, 2003, 6:51 pm
I think the theory might work if Harry was not the heir to gryffindor. We don't know if he is or not but it is looking like he might be. If that is the case I don't think the theory would work. Harry would be far too dangerous to him alive especially if there is some prophecy about the heir to Gryffindor killing the heir to Slytherin.

aiko amaya
March 31st, 2003, 7:50 pm
maybe he would do the diary thing and make it so that his soul went into harry, and living like some all controlling parasite or something and like live in his body and then find another little boy to kidnap and turn evil and take over. Just a thaught

DragonslayerX
March 31st, 2003, 8:04 pm
If Voldemort did not try to kill Harry in the first place, Lily would not have had to make a self-sacrifice, so Voldemort could have kidnapped Harry. So, this theory cannot possibly be true. Sorry.

Kneazle
March 31st, 2003, 9:38 pm
I am going to merge "Voldie intended to kidnap Harry" with the previous "Why did Voldemort try to kill Harry?".

Starseyer
March 31st, 2003, 9:47 pm
Originally posted by DragonslayerX (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=242976#post242976))
If Voldemort did not try to kill Harry in the first place, Lily would not have had to make a self-sacrifice, so Voldemort could have kidnapped Harry. So, this theory cannot possibly be true. Sorry.


Even a kidnapper can kill.

I guess he would hear about the prediction through informers. Even though Trelawney had not been known to make acurate predictions, I don't think Voldie would just sit around and see if someone was actually going to be his downfall or if it was just a farce prediction.

I forgot to mention my other theory:
I don't think it was Lily's sacrifice alone that caused the curse to backfire. Here is why: Harry is the only person known to survive the killing curse, right? During the time that Voldemort was in power, I figure that is was not such a rare thing that Voldie or a DE would try to kill people and I don't think it was below them to kill children generally. And I don't think it would have been such a rare thing for a mother to be willing to give up her life to protect her child. So, while it would be a rare thing perhaps for a person to survive the killing curse because of a mother's sacrafice, I have a feeling that it would not be so rare that only one person would be known to survive the killing curse. I think there is something here we just don't know about yet! :eyebrows:

DragonslayerX
March 31st, 2003, 10:01 pm
Well, my point was, you do not first attempt to kill someone you are trying to kidnap. If he wanted to kidnap Harry, he would just kill Lily and take him.

Also, it was not just the act of sacrificing herself for Harry. It was said that she used ancient magic that required her to make that sacrifice. And it is unlikely that a lot of the people Voldemorte killed knew this magic, as several of them were mudbloods.

Buttercup
March 31st, 2003, 10:09 pm
I also really like the self fulfilling theory. It is a great idea. We are supposed to find out more about James and Lily's jobs in the next book and why they were living as muggles. That might help explain as to why Voldie tried to kill Harry. I also was under the impression that Voldie was going after James also since Voldie said that Lily didn't have to die but he never said that about James. I don't believe that Voldie had an romance with Lily because she was a 'mudblood' and Voldie hates mudbloods. I really don't think that he would have an affair with one. I also don't like the theory that Lily was a deatheater. It doesn't make sense to me.

aiko amaya
March 31st, 2003, 11:00 pm
Originally posted by Buttercup (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=243210#post243210))
I also really like the self fulfilling theory. It is a great idea. We are supposed to find out more about James and Lily's jobs in the next book and why they were living as muggles. That might help explain as to why Voldie tried to kill Harry. I also was under the impression that Voldie was going after James also since Voldie said that Lily didn't have to die but he never said that about James. I don't believe that Voldie had an romance with Lily because she was a 'mudblood' and Voldie hates mudbloods. I really don't think that he would have an affair with one. I also don't like the theory that Lily was a deatheater. It doesn't make sense to me.

maybe lily didn't have to die because Voldie offered her a chance to stand aside and let him kill harry and he would let her live and become a death Earter, but he had to kill james because of that whole heir deal.

BubbazGirl
March 31st, 2003, 11:10 pm
Well, there has to be something or some reason why Voldemort would want to go after Harry. It must have been pretty bad, or else Voldemort may have not felt so inclined to try and kill Harry after he was finished with Lilly. He must have felt that if he killed Harry, it would finish the whole family off for good.

Maybe Voldemort got caught up in his own self-righteousness, thinking that he would set a great example by not only destroying the people who dared to defy him, but taking it a step further to kill their children too. Only with the Potters, it backfired. Was there any other passages that stated whether or not Harry was the first child to be struck by Voldemort's curse? Reason would tell me that Harry was the first child, that's why he's so special. That, and of course, the fact that he lived.

HermioneGranger1
March 31st, 2003, 11:15 pm
Originally posted by TheSortingHat (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=1409#post1409))
I think that there's got to be another reason. Remember, Voldemort says that Lily needn't have died - and Dumbledore confirms, by refusing to answer Harry's question, that it was really Harry he was after.

Personally, I think that it had something to do with Professor Trelawney's first prediction. But what was that prediction?

TheSortingHat


Um hello i just want to remmember to: The Sorting Hat that Lily hadn't have to die because she wasn't a Griffindor heir.....

But...James Potter...was a Griffindor heir and harry too because he was the son of last heir of Griffindor...

aiko amaya
March 31st, 2003, 11:17 pm
yeah right, harry being the first one for Voldermort to put his wand on, he's far to cold for that, probably started killing children from the begining, maybe to serve a warning, "this is your last chance, I've killed your kids and if yu don't listen to me I'm after you next" maybe that was what he was doing at the potters and they went into hiding because harry was born and Voldie wanted to kill him, the reason lily didn't have to die and the reason they were protecting harry (though I'm sure they would have been protecting harry anyways) and after he had killed lily and James he probably though, "eh that kid will hate me anyway, might as well kill him too, dang potter blood"

Buttercup
March 31st, 2003, 11:32 pm
I really think there is a specific reason why Voldie went after Harry. Not because he was a child and Voldie wanted to set an example. The quote from the new book: 'Dumbledore lowered his hands and surveyed Harry through his half-moon glasses.'It is time,' he said 'for me to tell you what I should have told you five years ago, Harry. Please sit down. I am going to tell you everything.' This might be the key as to why Harry and his father were targeted.

aiko amaya
March 31st, 2003, 11:48 pm
well that seems like a given buttercup. But it is very Voldermortish for him to attack children and family to get his way, probably gave lucius tips too that filthy.....

smartypants
April 1st, 2003, 4:35 pm
Originally posted by familiar (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=242802#post242802))
Nothing has been said in the books about Trelawney making such a prediction.


That's true. The only thing that has been said is that Trelawney has made two real predictions. One that Voldemorts servant would return to him an that Voldemort would rise again, which was correct.

Nobody knows what the first one was (yet) but the *theory* is that she predicted that Harry would be Voldemorts downfall. It's a neat theory that explains why Voldemort would try to kill Harry, and it does it with fewer assumptions than most theories here, so that's my guess.

I also guess we'll get to know when Voldemort tells Harry everything. :)

Auri DeMeer
April 1st, 2003, 5:27 pm
The prophecy would be indeed the simpler way to explain why Voldemort wanted to kill Harry.

But it's been too used in books (e.g. the Bible is the first one coming to my head) and legends...! And somehow I expect something better than Voldemort wanting to kill a child just because the moon or the stars or a half-mad has prophecised (??) that the child will be dangerous in the future.

What is more, if it's Trelawny who predicted it, it was her "first" right prediction.... Ohhhh If I was Voldemort I wouldn't really have paid any attention to her!!! It really must be something different - but of course, you never know... :sigh:

smartypants
April 1st, 2003, 5:35 pm
It's not a question of first "right" prediction. It's her first "real" prediction. All the things she teaches people in divination is just bogus ********, and I think she knows it.

But her REAL predictions are done under involountary trance. Big difference.

Buttercup
April 1st, 2003, 5:50 pm
I never really understood where the prophecy thing came from. Did any characters in the books talk about a prophecy concerning an heir to gryffindor or an heir to slytherin? I can't remember.

Also how would Voldie hear about Prof Trewlany's predictions? If she gave them in school did someone tell him? I am not sure how old she is but if she was Tom Riddle's teacher when he was in school, don't you think he might think she was a flake like most of the other students? Just curious.

Auri DeMeer
April 1st, 2003, 5:52 pm
Anyway... If all of her previous predictions were wrong, why should Voldemort have paid attention to her?

smartypants
April 1st, 2003, 6:01 pm
Voldemort should have paid attention because this was a REAL prediction.

You guys still doesn't seem to have understood the differences between the divination *beeep* she teaches, and REAL predictions. ;)

And why should he NOT have heard it? If somebody suddenly for no reason goes into a trance and says that Harry will be the downfall of Voldemort, what would need explaining is if he did NOT hear about it. :)

Buttercup
April 1st, 2003, 6:54 pm
And why should he NOT have heard it? If somebody suddenly for no reason goes into a trance and says that Harry will be the downfall of Voldemort, what would need explaining is if he did NOT hear about it.

But who told him? Was it one of the students? I thought that only Gryffindors were in the class when that happened? (Am I wrong?) Did those students tell the whole school? I could see some Slytherins (Draco) telling his father about the prediction and that way it could have gotten to Voldie. But did the rest of the school know about the prediction? Does Voldie have other spies in the school? I don't remember the scene with the prediction very well and I don't have access to the book right now.

smartypants
April 1st, 2003, 7:18 pm
It's the first prediction that possibly is about Harry. It's not described in any of the four books.

Barbara Kennedy
April 1st, 2003, 7:28 pm
Voldemort may have been determined to kill Harry to avoid having Harry come after Voldemort later in life to avenge his father's [James's] death.

aiko amaya
April 1st, 2003, 8:04 pm
Um how would ha have heard it from her? I think there was a prediction about this but by the centars but they keep to themselves alot

hedwig
April 8th, 2003, 8:24 pm
maybe its nothin to do with trelawnys prediction i think that was that voldermort was goin to rise up the first time but maybe voldy new that harry was goin to be an even stronger wizard then him coming from two of the best whiches and wizards in hogwarts history and that knowin james was one of the best wizards he may of knew somethin about the potter family that we may not know yet.
Also voldy may of been tipped off by sum 1 who could see in to the future and told him that a boy by james potter would end up killing him, these are just random thoughts does any 1 agree?

Barbara Kennedy
April 8th, 2003, 9:40 pm
Please use proper spelling and punctuations here.
Thank you from the grammar police. Have a nice day

aiko amaya
April 8th, 2003, 11:53 pm
I think it's kinda far fetched with this trewanlery stuff. I mean he might have heard her prediction and not header her, thinking she was an old fraud, and then met his down fall.

Eternal
April 9th, 2003, 3:00 am
I'm really confused, trying to make sense of it all and discover the truth. I guess I just can't wait for this 5th book ;)

But I do believe it had something more to do with Harry's parents, specifically James, than Harry himself. Well, I should say that it had more to do with James' death rather than James being more important to the plot than Lily. I think there is something significant about Lily, something that will no doubt come as a shock to us. Not because of why she died, but because of why she might have lived. And no, I don't think she had an affair with Voldemort. That idea to me is completely bogus.

I just have this gut feeling that there's something not right about James and Lily. I think their truth is going to be much darker and more complicated than we expect.

DragonslayerX
April 9th, 2003, 3:44 am
Everyone makes a big deal about this quote by Dumbledore where he tells Harry that Trelawny has now made two accurate predictions. I think this was more of a joke, saying how inaccurate Divination really is.

Kind of like when someone says, "That's the first bit of good news I've heard all day." It doesn't necessarily mean that that really is the truth, it is just a way of demonstrating how bad the person's day has been.

smartypants
April 9th, 2003, 8:54 am
He didn't say accurate, he said REAL. Theres a huge difference, and that difference makes me think he wasn't joking. If this was her first REAL prediction, he would have been shocked and surprised. If she makes lots of real predictions, I think he would have said so, and definitely not made the comment about offering her a pay raise.

So, no, this most likely was her SECOND real prediction.

pmb1290
April 15th, 2003, 10:19 pm
About the whole prophecy thing..
I don't really know the story, but I am going to try to get all biblical anyways...
Wasnt there a king, who heard a prophecy about a baby (it could've been Jesus.. i dont remember) who would ruin the king? So then the king, I think, went nuts and killed all of the baby boys in the country. JKR could be making a biblical allusion to this story if she does the whole prophecy thing.

By the way, i'm sorry that I totally butchered that story.
Peter

jordmundt6
April 16th, 2003, 2:37 am
You're talking about King Herod? Nah. I don't think she has him pegged as a Messiah. But, I do think the prophecy had something to do with, "The lion's cub will devour the Snake, just as his ancestor silenced the Serpent Tongue. As it was in times past, so it shall be." That kind of thing. Voldemort would hear about this and figure that the Heir of Gryffindor would be the one to thwart his power. So he went on a systematic search of the great good pureblood families of Britain, looking for candidates. He killed the McKinnons, the Bones (I don't think Susan Bones is an orphan. I think Voldemort killed a family surnamed "Bone" and hers is a different family), the Prewetts, etc. The Potters were his next target. He went for young James and baby Harry. It was most important to kill them. He probably would have celebrated afterward by putting Lily out of her misery, but she was incidental to the task at hand. What Voldemort hadn't counted on was that the infant Heir of Gryffindor would have magic of his own.

aiko amaya
April 16th, 2003, 3:41 am
Originally posted by jordmundt6 (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=268717#post268717))
You're talking about King Herod? Nah. I don't think she has him pegged as a Messiah. But, I do think the prophecy had something to do with, "The lion's cub will devour the Snake, just as his ancestor silenced the Serpent Tongue. As it was in times past, so it shall be." That kind of thing. Voldemort would hear about this and figure that the Heir of Gryffindor would be the one to thwart his power. So he went on a systematic search of the great good pureblood families of Britain, looking for candidates. He killed the McKinnons, the Bones (I don't think Susan Bones is an orphan. I think Voldemort killed a family surnamed "Bone" and hers is a different family), the Prewetts, etc. The Potters were his next target. He went for young James and baby Harry. It was most important to kill them. He probably would have celebrated afterward by putting Lily out of her misery, but she was incidental to the task at hand. What Voldemort hadn't counted on was that the infant Heir of Gryffindor would have magic of his own.

I think he she had stood aside and done what Voldermort had told her he would ghave left her alone, just because she did what he told her.

jordmundt6
April 16th, 2003, 4:37 am
I don't know. Voldie and his followers relished "pointless killing." I posted this on another thread. He didn't say "she wouldn't have died," he said "she needn't have died." But just because something isn't absolutely necessary doesn't mean that he wouldn't do it anyway. Especially when it's killing a Muggle or a Muggle-born. "That's entertainment!" or at least that's the view that the Death-Eaters take of Muggle and Muggle-born killings.

smartypants
April 17th, 2003, 10:45 am
Originally posted by pmb1290 (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=268345#post268345))
About the whole prophecy thing..
I don't really know the story, but I am going to try to get all biblical anyways...
Wasnt there a king, who heard a prophecy about a baby (it could've been Jesus.. i dont remember) who would ruin the king? So then the king, I think, went nuts and killed all of the baby boys in the country. JKR could be making a biblical allusion to this story if she does the whole prophecy thing.

By the way, i'm sorry that I totally butchered that story.
Peter


That happens several times in the bible. Good story. :) And yes, one of the times it happens is when Jesus is born.

ahsweape
April 17th, 2003, 10:44 pm
Originally posted by pmb1290 (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=268345#post268345))
About the whole prophecy thing..
I don't really know the story, but I am going to try to get all biblical anyways...
Wasnt there a king, who heard a prophecy about a baby (it could've been Jesus.. i dont remember) who would ruin the king? So then the king, I think, went nuts and killed all of the baby boys in the country. JKR could be making a biblical allusion to this story if she does the whole prophecy thing.

By the way, i'm sorry that I totally butchered that story.
Peter


This is not just biblical, this happens all over mythology as well, the most noteworthy being King Laius of Thebes ordering his son Oedipus killed because he hears that Oedipus will grow up to kill his father Laius and sleep with his mother.

Stallion1
April 18th, 2003, 12:13 am
Maybe harry is like this chosen one that voldemort needed to get rid of or maybe he hated the potters and just figured what they hey kill him too. Or maybe the fact that they like muggles and malfoy suggested to get rid of them.

jordmundt6
April 18th, 2003, 12:42 am
Malfoy can't play Voldemort like he plays Fudge. Yes, something similar happened several times in the Bible, but I think the only time that had all the elements (an uneasy king, an unknown child prohesied as his successor and multiple family killings) is Herrod. Oedipus doesn't work because Voldemort targetted more than one family. Oedipus father was given precise information, Voldemort had no more than an inkling.

Weatherby
April 18th, 2003, 8:37 am
Originally posted by jordmundt6 (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=268891#post268891))
I don't know. Voldie and his followers relished "pointless killing." I posted this on another thread. He didn't say "she wouldn't have died," he said "she needn't have died." But just because something isn't absolutely necessary doesn't mean that he wouldn't do it anyway. Especially when it's killing a Muggle or a Muggle-born. "That's entertainment!" or at least that's the view that the Death-Eaters take of Muggle and Muggle-born killings.


I agree.
I've said many times that Voldemort may have wanted to kill Harry simply because he was there. It's not in his nature to leave survivors unless their living serves a purpose to him.

Michelle
April 18th, 2003, 10:14 pm
Then Dumbledore would have said Harry the truth. Instead he told him that he will learn Voldemort's reason when he gets older. So that reason is something dark, something an 12-year old kid can't handle...

NeoInvaderGaz
April 19th, 2003, 12:44 am
There are to many posts here to read through everything but id like to put in my two cents.

In book 2 dumbledore said that there is only one heir to slytherin. Well isnt that after harry tell him that he chose to be in gryffindor? I dont think dumbledore answered the question point blank. I think harry is the decendent of slytherin through james, and the decendent of gryffindor through lily. I am solidly convinced that he is the decendent of those two house founders... somehow. Look, voldemort may wanted to have killed james and harry becuase they had slytherin blood in them as well. We assume that james was against voldemort. Well what if there were two types of slytherins really, those that wanted to clear the houses name and image, and those that wanted to continue the ways of slytherin himself? ill get back to this later..

jordmundt6
April 19th, 2003, 2:16 am
How through Lily? (she's Muggle-born, pure Muggle-born). Also, "Voldemort is the last descendant of Slytherin." The Sorting Hat wanted to put Harry in Slytherin because the failed curse gave some of Voldemort's powers to Harry. He is not genealogically related to Slytherin. Period. All this in "Dobby's Reward" the final chapter of CoS.

NeoInvaderGaz
April 19th, 2003, 2:20 am
Originally posted by jordmundt6 (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=274063#post274063))
How through Lily? (she's Muggle-born, pure Muggle-born). Also, "Voldemort is the last descendant of Slytherin." The Sorting Hat wanted to put Harry in Slytherin because the failed curse gave some of Voldemort's powers to Harry. He is not genealogically related to Slytherin. Period. All this in "Dobby's Reward" the final chapter of CoS.

Maybe there were some witches and wizards in the background.
Dumbledore didnt say that harry wasnt related to slytherin through blood he really just said that there was only one heir to slytherin. And thats all as far as i know bud. Dumbledore did not say that harry wasnt related to slytherin by blood.

jordmundt6
April 19th, 2003, 5:57 am
If Harry were related to Voldemort by blood Dumbledore would have been BALD-FACE LYING when he told Harry that Voldemort was the last descendant of Slytherin. It would have been categorically untrue because he, Harry would constitute another heir.

NeoInvaderGaz
April 19th, 2003, 6:06 am
Originally posted by jordmundt6 (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=274532#post274532))
If Harry were related to Voldemort by blood Dumbledore would have been BALD-FACE LYING when he told Harry that Voldemort was the last descendant of Slytherin. It would have been categorically untrue because he, Harry would constitute another heir.


I thought he said heir, not decendent. I didnt say that harry was related to voldemort really as much as he could be related to slytherin.

jordmundt6
April 19th, 2003, 6:15 am
Well, he said descendant. And if Voldie was the last one way back in the 1940s, where else would Harry derive a genealogical connection to Slytherin? Voldemort would be the only option.

NeoInvaderGaz
April 19th, 2003, 6:32 am
Ok i see your point. I thought he said heir, meaning that voldemort was the one that supported slytherins actions himself. It has obviously been sometime since i last read the books or watched the movies.

jordmundt6
April 19th, 2003, 6:35 am
That's alright. It was confusing there for awhile because it felt like we were arguing in circles.

XanderTheMighty
June 18th, 2003, 7:33 am
Maybe ol' Voldemort is afraid of Pottery and he thinks (or thought)that the Potters made clay pots and ash trays that can be thrown at him with lethal force... it could happen. Oooooh, what if Harry takes pottery in year seven and that's the undoing of Voldy. Maybe I'm off base... but maybe I'm right on the nose!

black&potter
June 18th, 2003, 8:28 pm
HUhhhhhhhhhhhhh I'm way lost

shadow fox
June 19th, 2003, 6:11 am
:huh: I've always thought that Harry was the heir of Gryffindor. I mean, Harry pulled Godric Gryffindor's sword out of the Sorting Hat in CoS and Harry's parents lived in a placed called Godric's Hollow :??: Doesn't that kinda point out the person that Harry truely is? I mean, it would make sense why Voldemort would want to kill Harry because Harry was the heir of Gryffindor. That would make a pretty good showdown for the final series (Heir vs. Heir)

R3mus Lup!n
June 19th, 2003, 6:37 am
Originally posted by shadow fox (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=383017#post383017))
:huh: I've always thought that Harry was the heir of Gryffindor. I mean, Harry pulled Godric Gryffindor's sword out of the Sorting Hat in CoS and Harry's parents lived in a placed called Godric's Hollow :??: Doesn't that kinda point out the person that Harry truely is? I mean, it would make sense why Voldemort would want to kill Harry because Harry was the heir of Gryffindor. That would make a pretty good showdown for the final series (Heir vs. Heir)


Yeah,i agree with shadowfox there.Heir.vs.Heir.That would be interesing.Maybe voldemort wanted to kill harry becoz voldemort heard of a propehcy that the son of the potters would be his downfall.So he killed James and lily but failed to kill Harry.

(I wonder who the heir of ravenclaw and hufflepuff is.)