Dumbledore and Flamel - What did they work on together?

Did Dumbledore help Nicholas Flammel to do the Philosopher's Stone? In PS, at least for me, everything indicates so in the Chocolate Frog card. However, think for a moment. If Dumbledore's 150 and Nicholas Flammel is 666, there's something wrong, because Flammel would already be over 500 when he started developing the Stone, because Dumbledore is much younger than him. There's no way he can have lived so much. What do you think?

Well it says that Dumbledore worked on Alchemy with Nicholas, but not necessarily the stone.

No. Like you said yourself, there was a massive age difference between the two. And just because Dumbledore is brilliant at most things, doesn't mean he can do everything.

That's interesting. Wasn't Dumbledore suppose to have helped him create it? Maybe Flammel had created some other Elixir and finally developed a Sorcerer's Stone? Or maybe Dumbledore was older than he was said to be? I don't know, this is hurting my brain...:shrug:

No! the only Elixir that can prolong life comes from the philosopher's stone. And it's very rare for wizards to reach dumbledore's age, let alone live past it.

Maybe he used a Time Turner...;)

Maybe Dumbledore helped develop the "turn all metals into gold" part of the stone, while Flamel made the elixr.

Well it says that Dumbledore worked on Alchemy with Nicholas, but not necessarily the stone.

I just assumed it wasn't the stone, primarily based on the age difference, but also, Nicolas Flamel was a real person who claimed to have created a sorcer's stone. I forget the exact century, but prior to the Renaissance, when the study of alchemy was very "in" (for lack of a better term). All the properties of the sorcer's stone in the book were the "real" properties attributed to the stone.

I have no inkling as to what the two worked on, but in my opinion it was not the stone. We still don't know how Dumbledore defeated Grindlewald...maybe it had something to do with that...

Maybe Flamels stone "dried out" and at the age of 666 (which i find interesting that it is also the "Mark of the Beast") he needed help from a younger more talented wizard to make another.And if the Elixar of life needs to be drank for all eternity, then why was Flamel keeping it in Gringotts?

Maybe Dumbledore helped develop the "turn all metals into gold" part of the stone, while Flamel made the elixr.
No, no, no, no! The stone is to create both the elixir and the gold thing. The two things can't be seperate.

Maybe he used a Time Turner...
how about no. That would just be over-complicating things when we can just sat that yes, dumbledore didn't create the stone in the first place.

sorcer's stone
the actual name for it is philosipher's stone. Sorcer's is the American name for it, whilst the rest of the world for the past 2000ish+ years have used philosipher's stone

Maybe Flamels stone "dried out"
no, because a) the stone is very, very difficult to make in the first place, and b) what would be the point of it if it could only give you a certain amount of elixir before it ran out. A not very immortal means if this was true (which it isn't).

Maybe we should consider the possibility that Flammel was DD's teacher in alchemy?

This would explain their relationship, as they had common beliefs (which is really what alchemy seems to be about - hence "philosopher's stone"), or at least common ground, and the age difference would also be explained. Flammel would have needed to be more advanced, and have more time working toward achieving making the stone than DD.

The actual stone and its life prolonging power would not have appealed to DD. He is more of a journey guy than a destination one, if you get my drift. I don't remember there being any canon to suggest DD had anything to do with making the stone, and only that he studied alchemy. The idea of being immortal using the stone seems to paralell with the idea of horcruxes in some regards. Both mean interfering with the natural way of things, and suggest a fear of death, something DD wasn't afraid of.

I don't think Dumbledore and Flamel worked on the Philosipher's stone together, or the Elixir. As was mentioned above, it's only stated that they worked on Alchemy together.

"Albus Dumbledore, currently Headmaster or Hogwarts. Considered by many the greatest wizard of Modern times, Dumbledore is particularly famous for his defeat of the dark wizard Grindelwald in 1945, for the discovery of the twelve uses of dragon's blood and his work on alchemy with his partner, Nicolas Falamel. Professor Dumbledore enjoys chamber music and tenpin bowling."

Anyways, I think that they just worked on alchemy together, but something totally unrelated to the Philosipher's stone or the Elixir.

Acording to Dan Brown, P. 431 'The Da Vinci Code' (paperback) Nicolas Flamel, 1398~1418 was a Grand Master of 'The Order of Sion'. (if you can believe that) Also, in the painting by Wright of Derby, (1734~1797) you will see the artists' impression of 'The Alchemist is Search of the Philosopher's Stone', painted in 1771.

I didn't think that we knew what exact projects they worked on....only that they worked together.

There are many many reasons why Dumbledore and Flamel worked together (they've both been around for a very long time) and I don't think we could even begin to speculate but it won't have been on the Philosopher's Stone as this happened around 4 centuries ago. I doubt we will find out just what they did work on together in the books (as the whole DD and Flamel friendship was played out in PS so i will probably not return again) but if we're lucky Jo mite just tell us later on in the possible Encyclopedia, or if we just beg her hard enough lol!

Did it not say on the card that they were working on the 12 uses of Dragons Blood? Yeah I agree that Flamel was probably DD Alchemy teacher.

Well, the study of Alchemy is about turning objects into gold. The Stone is important because it can change any metal into gold, I think that's what the book said. But maybe Dumbledore and Flamel worked together to create a way to turn other things into gold, like cotton into gold. The stone doesn't do that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alchemy

Alchemy can mean a whole bunch of things.

Hi. Dumbledore is really old and I think he did help Flamel on the Sorcerer's/Philosopher's stone.

No. He. Didn't. Dumbledore was only around 150 years old (Jo confermed this herself), whilst Nick was 666 years old. So no, not possible.

I think that they might have just researched alchemy together. Since Nick already had the philosopher's stone, Dumbledore might have helped him research other things.

Did it not say on the card that they were working on the 12 uses of Dragons Blood? Yeah I agree that Flamel was probably DD Alchemy teacher.

It doesn't say that they worked on the 12 uses of Dragon's blood.

"Albus Dumbledore, currently Headmaster or Hogwarts. Considered by many the greatest wizard of Modern times, Dumbledore is particularly famous for his defeat of the dark wizard Grindelwald in 1945, for the discovery of the twelve uses of dragon's blood and his work on alchemy with his partner, Nicolas Falamel. Professor Dumbledore enjoys chamber music and tenpin bowling."

It only states that Dumbledore discovered the 12 uses of Dragon's blood, and worked on alchemy with Flamel. Dubledore and Falmel did not discover the 12 uses of Dragons blood together, that was all Dumbledore.

I think that Dumbledore and Flamel worked on alchemy togther, but something totally unrelated to the philosopher's stone or the elixir. Therefore, Dumbledore agreed to hide the stone for Flamel since they were friends because they worked togther on alchemy. Not because he helped make either the philosopher's stone or the elixir.

philosipher's stone


no, because a) the stone is very, very difficult to make in the first place, and b) what would be the point of it if it could only give you a certain amount of elixir before it ran out. A not very immortal means if this was true (which it isn't).

Yes but Dumbledore also mentioned that the stone could be contaminated
so maybe thats why he needed Dumbledores help.

Maybe Dumbledore helped develop the "turn all metals into gold" part of the stone, while Flamel made the elixr.
Makes sense.

No, no, no, no! The stone is to create both the elixir and the gold thing. The two things can't be seperate.
like i said before, not possible.

The term Alchemy literally means transforming one element into another. The most commonly referred to aspect is turning lead into gold. On the Periodic Table of Elements they are but one proton apart, so it seems that something so common as lead could be changed to gold, if one could find the exact formulae.

However, many of us are assuming that the substance that Flammel and Dumbledore were working on was gold. This is likely not the case. I propose that they may have been working on development of the wizarding world's version of the Atom Bomb.

Although, we do not know the dates from which they worked together, let us consider that it could have been around the time of WWII. At that time Germany, and The United States were working on development of terrible weapons. This war was spilling over to the wizarding world, just as their troubles seem to spill over to ours.

To create a devastating doomsday weapon, and have it the possession of Nazi Germany could well have spelled the beginning of the end for the world, including the Wizarding World. As a result, the wizards knew that someone was about to create this devastation, they may as well put it in the right hands.

An atomic explosion is nothing short of terrible magic, during which time, if for only a fraction of an instant one element changes form (alchemy). The resultant energy release is well known today, but a revelation in those times.

Although, I do not believe that it is relevant to the plot outline, I think this could have been what those two worked on, and handed the formulae over to the like of Einstein, J. Oppenheimer, and Richard Feynman.

Originally Posted by Mahleindayre
Maybe Dumbledore helped develop the "turn all metals into gold" part of the stone, while Flamel made the elixr.

Dumbledore is not as foolish as to do something like that. For one to be able to change all into gold would completely destablize the world's economy, both muggle and wizard. Gold itself would completely lose its value. Nicholas Flammel would have realised this too.

Maybe we should re-examine the scope.

The Muggle world has "smart" medicines today which can home in on specific locations and attack only mutant (cencerous) cells in some cases. Wizard research would, I think, follow its own lines to benefit people. Making gold sounds cool, but how about a way to create something which makes Muggles healthier, their houses last longer, and their spells not wear out so fast? You get the idea, I think. The Stone was meant for personal gain but for the benefit of everyone as a whole.

Maybe we should re-examine the scope.

The Muggle world has "smart" medicines today which can home in on specific locations and attack only mutant (cencerous) cells in some cases. Wizard research would, I think, follow its own lines to benefit people. Making gold sounds cool, but how about a way to create something which makes Muggles healthier, their houses last longer, and their spells not wear out so fast? You get the idea, I think. The Stone was meant for personal gain but for the benefit of everyone as a whole.

I love your line of thinking here. Dumbledore would not involve himself in something that would have only be for personal gain, or wealth. He (was) much too farsighted for that.

Sort of what this makes me think of is that at most institutions of higher education, professors teach, but they also use their position and the vast amounts of information available to them to do research. It seems natural to me that anyone in the wizarding world doing practical or scholarly research on any given topic would ask a colleague in education, such as a teacher at Hogwarts, for assistance or support. If Dumbledore was the Transfiguration teacher, and alchemy is essentially a form of transfiguration, it seems an obvious step for someone interested in alchemy to apply to him for help and resources.

Dumbledore is not as foolish as to do something like that. For one to be able to change all into gold would completely destablize the world's economy, both muggle and wizard. Gold itself would completely lose its value. Nicholas Flammel would have realised this too.

That's what the Philosopher's Stone is. Or one of it's uses. It maybe possible to have a stond that can do one thing but not the other but then it wouldn't be a Philosopher's Stone.

Yes, but that is not what Dumbledore and Flammel worked on together. The stone was already created long before Dumbledore had anything to do with Flammel.

Dumbledore helped Flamel with alchemy. i think that the whole age thing didn't matter because Dumbledore was wise for his age.

I think it was just a mentor thing where Nicholas Flamel mentored Dumbledore in Alchemy and perhaps other things.

I don't think they worked on the Stone together. In "The Man With Two Faces," Stone, Dumbledore tells Harry, "You know, the Stone was really not such a wonderful thing. As much money and life as you could want! The two things most human beings would choose above all--the trouble is, humans do have a knack of choosing precisely those things that are worse for them." Doesn't sound like he'd make one, then. Nor does it sound like he made one and then changed his mind about its worth; there's no hint of regret or wish-I-hadn't-done-it here. And by the time he tells Harry this, he's already convinced Flamel to destroy the Stone and it has been done.

Its possible that they both created the stone togther and Nicholas Flamel used other ways to stay alvie from birth until the time that the stone was created, or there was a little bit of time travelling on either ones behalf to the future/past for them to help the other create the stone(hopefully that makes sense...it does to me)

As Dumbledore's Wizarding Card says, DD and Flamel just worked on Alchemy together. Good catch that Flamel must have had the stone centuries in advance of DD's birth in order to be alive when he and DD worked together. However, I wonder if DD ever "borrowed" some of the Elixir of Life if there ever was on a particularly dangerous situation. The stone gave enough Elixir of Life for both Flamel and his wife, perhaps it could give enough for three people if necessary.

As the quote from the book says it was DD that found the uses of dragons blood on his own. He also worked with Flamel, with whom we are lead to believe he is good friends, but this was on something different, on alchemy, I think that it has nothing to do with the elixir or the stone.

You can speculate forever what this may have been but I for one do not have a clue.

Nicolas Flamel (c. 1325[1]–1992 or soon after) is a fictional character in Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone, who is based on the real French alchemist, Nicholas Flamel. He is something of a MacGuffin; though he is the clue to the whole mystery of Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone, he never actually makes an appearance.

According to the Harry Potter books, Flamel is the only person known to create the philosopher's stone and, thus, he and his wife, Perenelle, have lived on for centuries. Flamel worked with Albus Dumbledore as his partner in alchemy, though, considering the stone had already been invented, it is not clear what the pair worked on together.

Flamel's stone became the target of Lord Voldemort during his possession of Professor Quirrell, so Dumbledore consequently moved it from Gringotts Wizarding Bank to Hogwarts School of Witchcraft and Wizardry, in order to keep it safe. However, Quirrell worked out how to get past the numerous obstacles to the prize, but Harry Potter, Ron Weasley and Hermione Granger figured out someone was after it, though they believed it to be Severus Snape, their Potions professor.

At the end of the book, Dumbledore mentioned that Flamel had enough Elixir of Life left to set his affairs in order, but noted that he would die. Nicolas Flamel has not been heard from since in the series, and author J. K. Rowling has stated on her website that Flamel is now deceased.

As the quote from the book says it was DD that found the uses of dragons blood on his own. He also worked with Flamel, with whom we are lead to believe he is good friends, but this was on something different, on alchemy, I think that it has nothing to do with the elixir or the stone.But the Philosopher's Stone is created through Alchemy.

As Dumbledore's Wizarding Card says, DD and Flamel just worked on Alchemy together. Good catch that Flamel must have had the stone centuries in advance of DD's birth in order to be alive when he and DD worked together. However, I wonder if DD ever "borrowed" some of the Elixir of Life if there ever was on a particularly dangerous situation. The stone gave enough Elixir of Life for both Flamel and his wife, perhaps it could give enough for three people if necessary.


It's highly unlikely that Dumbledore has ever taken some Elixir of Life, because if you do you get dependent on it very easily and will die if you stop drinking. I don't think Dumbledore would have taken the risk of getting "addicted" to it.


The Elixir of Life extends life, but requires that the drinker consume it regularly for all eternity if the drinker is to maintain his or her immortality.

Someone dependent on the Elixir can die if the supply runs out (for instance, if the Philosopher's Stone being used to make it is stolen or destroyed) or if the supply of Elixir is contaminated (HBP23).

what if dumbledore and flamel are the same person. that is why dumbledore had to die he ran out of the elixir of life

I recon Dumbledore probably coreseponded with Flamel when he had trouble with whatever he was researching at the time, and in turn FLamel may have assisted DUmbledore with the dragons blood. Dumbledore couldn't have used a time turner like Hermione's to go back 600 years if 3 turns is 3 hours (like in PoA)

In an aside, I read somewhere that there are people who believe Nicholas Flamel is alive to this day.

There is no way that DD in any way shape or form helped create the philosopher's stone. It is impossible. However alchemy can mean many different things and it's likely that they worked on something else altogether that we don't know about, possibly something to help defeat Grindlewald or Voldy.

It's highly unlikely that Dumbledore has ever taken some Elixir of Life, because if you do you get dependent on it very easily and will die if you stop drinking. I don't think Dumbledore would have taken the risk of getting "addicted" to it.


The Elixir of Life extends life, but requires that the drinker consume it regularly for all eternity if the drinker is to maintain his or her immortality.

Someone dependent on the Elixir can die if the supply runs out (for instance, if the Philosopher's Stone being used to make it is stolen or destroyed) or if the supply of Elixir is contaminated (HBP23).I doubt Dumbledore himself was taking Elixir of Life on a regular basis. But I do wonder if he borrowed a dose or a couple of doses on occasion. For example, if he or someone else was in danger then DD might have wanted to take some Elixir of Life himself or give Elixir of Life to someone else.