Under New management

Discussion for Under New Management (http://www.mugglenet.com/editorials/editorials/edit-dawsons05.shtml) by Dawson Smith.

Not telling McGonnagall may not be a mistake, if you believe this essay. (http://www.mugglenet.com/editorials/editorials/edit-trumanl01.shtml)

Agreed with just about everything-except for one thing. Harry, under no circumstances, should tell anyone about the horcruxes. How can he, with all the various magical means of persuasion? Voldemort must never know that anyone knows about his horcruxes until its too late. The best kept secret is one that never leaves your lips.

Without going into particulars, I agree with the general point of this editorial: Harry has matured, but he has made or is about to make a few mistakes. The final stage of his growing up will most probably involve him realising his weaknesses and dealing with them. What might be a mistake or not, is an open matter.

After all, it seems to me that this is one path to maturity. First you learn as a child, then you rebel as a teenager when you feel you know a lot but that nobody understands you, then you cool off a bit and start thinking carefully of your past actions that probably led you to some stupid decisions and finally you mature into the stage of thinking carefully and reach your potential.

This is a natural path, and I did not mind having it more or less pointed out to me (again) by this editorial. It was, generally speaking, a nice one. I found it useful to have a list of potential weaknesses written out. Although I do not consider this to be a brilliant editorial, I'd rather read this kind rather than the kind that either has blatant errors (LV could resurrect only with Harry's blood) or pointless morality babbling (on how evil Evil is and how good it is that Harry is Good).

Agreed with just about everything-except for one thing. Harry, under no circumstances, should tell anyone about the horcruxes. How can he, with all the various magical means of persuasion? Voldemort must never know that anyone knows about his horcruxes until its too late. The best kept secret is one that never leaves your lips.

Ya, I agree with the hocrux thing. Hocruxes should definitely not be made public. But just because people don't know about the hunt for hocruxes doesn't mean they can't help Harry. Then there the whole thing about DD. I think that you have to keep in mind that at the end of HBP DD had just died. Part of the WWDD is just Harry dealing with that and grieving. Which is going to subside once Harry is forced perhaps too soon, to get on with his life and hunt for hocruxes.

Good editorial. But no - horcruxes need to remain secret - veritaserum and legilimency are too readily available in campEVIL.

Good editorial. But I have to disagree with you some matters:

1: Telling McGonagall would be a very bad mistake. How would she help Harry anyway? What if she tells about it to someone that's not exactly supposed to hear it. Then Voldemort would be aware of Harry's and the order's plans. I don't think that Lord Voldemort knows about the destroyed Horacruxes , nor that anyone knows about them. Even Lucius Malfoy had no idea what the Diary was....

2. Telling Ron and Hermione is good, but this means they're going to hav to tag along. I think we have greatly underestimated the trio, and especially Harry. He's destroyed a Horacrux by himself in Chamber, he faced Lord Voldemort and lived again in Goblet. He faced a large number of Death Eaters in Order.
I also believe that most of the hard Horacrux destroying work was done by R.A.B. And about R.A.B, whom I believe is not Regulus Black, I mean come on, you took his name and saw that he had the the first and last letter and made the connection. I'm pretty sure R.A.B is a great wizard. much better than Dumbledore( he alone took the Locket and battled the Inferi, this guy must be....sick.
When I look at R.A.B I think of the name Riddle for some reason, or maybe the initals are just a nickname. We'll have to wait for Hallows to see. Also Dumbledore is truly dead and Snape is evil;there is nothing good about a guy KILLING another guy, it dosn't matter what intention you had and I doubt Dumbledore would ask his freind to kill him for the good of Harry. I mean how would killing the greatest wizard in the world benefit Harry.I know Dumbledore is wise but what is wise about getting yourself killedI wanted Snape to be good, we all like bad boys, yet he is truly bad.

Sorry, went a little offcourse. I know you think Ginny is important for Harry and the plot. I think Harry made the right decision breaking up with her. It's just way too dangerous. Ginny is not a Horacrux and I think she has a slight chance of dying 10%. Somebody good has to die.

Let's play Death Odds:
Draco Malfoy 0%
Severus SnAPE 92.3%/ DECEASED
Harry 50%
Voldemort- DECEASED
LEStrange - DECEASED or jail but I doubt it
Neville- 23%
Luna- 0%
Wormtail- BYE BYE DEAD
Narcissa - 25%
Hermione- 12%
Ron- 57% ( I know i'm wrong but I just have a feeling)
Ginny 10%
TONKS 5%
I am afraid that Deathly Hallows will have a ''Sword of Shannara'' like ending were he'll just win by showing Voldemort his true self or something similar. I would be dissapointed if something like that would occur, but it looks like it probably will.

PLEASE GIVE ME SOME FEEDBACK ON THIS. IGNORE THE GRAMMER AND SPELLING ERRORS. NO TIME TO EDIT.

go public is just dumb for harry. he lose the element of surprise and a punchers chance to actually do it as soon as voldemort finds out

In general, a great editorial, but I also disagree that Harry should reveal the Horcruxes to McGonagall. We know she wants to help Harry, but we have also seen that she doesn't handle information very well. In PS/SS, she did nothing (as far as we know) when the trio told her that someone was after the stone. She also didn't deal well when Harry told her that Draco was up to something in HBP. Now, as presumed head of the Order, how would she deal with the information that Harry has to track down fragments of the soul of the enemy? I can't imagine her reacting well, or even believing him at all at first. In this respect she reminds me a bit of Molly Weasley. She wants the best for Harry, but she does not see him as an adult, able to make his own decisions. Granted, he is not yet of age, but that really doesn't matter in this case. Her reaction when he refused to tell her what he and Dumbledore had been doing shows that she is not ready to learn about the horcruxes. The people he should tell are Ginny, maybe Neville and Luna, and possibly Lupin. Ginny, because he can't leave her out of the hunt even if she doesn't come along for the ride. Neville and Luna, because they have proven that they can be trusted. And Lupin, because he is the closest thing Harry has to a parent now, and we know he can keep secrets well. Plus, as a former DADA teacher he could be useful. Anyway, that is all I can think to say right now.

I liked this editorial. Good to hear another person who thinks Ginny will save the day. Also now that you mention it, Trelawny probably will make a third prediction. All very interesting.

Interesting editorial, but I disagree with it on all of the points that the other people listed above. I'd also like to mention that you mixed up Kennilworthy Whisp and Newt Scamander. Whisp is the authority on Quidditch (which, at this point, will not help Harry much) while Scamander is the magical creatures expert. I really liked the Ginny's love saves the day idea, though. It's cool to see that other people feel the same way about that issue.

I think that Harry will need Ginny because she is the only person in the wizarding world who has gotten over Harry Potter.

To almost everyone, he is still The Boy Who Lived/The Chosen One. Ron and Hermione still feel thay have to humor him when he gets emotional. Even Dumbledore admitted, at the end of OotP, that he made errors of judgment where Harry was concerned.

But Ginny had her obsessive crush, got over it, and now loves the actual person Harry Potter. When he acts like a jerk, she recognizes that's all it is and calmly points it out. And because he loves her, and respects her, he has to listen. He needs that.

Great job on your editorial! :tu:

I'm not sure I agree with you on all the points, but I do agree that Ginny will play a much larger role than originally thought. Her love for Harry, and his love for her will be a big part of the story. (I hope):love:

Anyway, thanks! And keep up the good work!

Harry is not making a mistake by not informing the Order. Dumbledore did not keep them ignorant because he did not need their help. He kept them ignorant for seciurity reasons. Nobody in the Order can offer Harry much. (Yes, not even Bill: Hermione is an ace arithmancer, which is the chief cursebreaking theoretical skill.)

Harry also did not make a mistake by breaking up with Ginny. Prince was a story about right vs. easy choices in who Harry includes in his life: and the fact that it was so difficult for him to breakup with Ginny emphasizes the "correctness" of the decision. Now, it might not work out as Harry hopes: but that is another issue.

Also, from a literary point of view, Ginny has to prove herself worthy of Harry. That is best done if she initiates her inclusion in the quest.


Finally, Harry should NOT return to Hogwarts. Again, it is the easy and cowardly decision. There are not Horcruxes at Hogwarts: Dumbledore should have found those immediately. There is not information about their locations at Hogwarts: Dumbledore should have found that immediately. There is nobody there who can teach Harry spells to fight Voldemort. There is nobody there who can tell Harry anything that they did not already tell Dumbledore about Voldemort's past. Harry cannot go out and hunt Horcruxes while limited by a student's curfew hours.


So, to be blunt, I think that this editorial is making the very mistake that Rowling warns against: it counsels that the "easy" choices are the right ones. Almost all the choices recommended here are the wrong ones for Harry to make.

Without going into particulars, I agree with the general point of this editorial: Harry has matured, but he has made or is about to make a few mistakes. The final stage of his growing up will most probably involve him realising his weaknesses and dealing with them. What might be a mistake or not, is an open matter.

After all, it seems to me that this is one path to maturity. First you learn as a child, then you rebel as a teenager when you feel you know a lot but that nobody understands you, then you cool off a bit and start thinking carefully of your past actions that probably led you to some stupid decisions and finally you mature into the stage of thinking carefully and reach your potential.


I agree with the above. But this editorial kinda made me mad. Harry made plenty of rash decisions in book 6 - trusting the HBP, Following Malfoy in Diagon Alley, spying on Malfoy on the train, etc, etc ... all of which were detrimental to him. Granted, he did make less rash decisions but this was reassuring as he needs to think before he acts because even though the editorial says his instincts are always right it's actually the complete opposite. In every single book, Harry's instincts are usually wrong - he suspected Snape in PS, suspected Malfoy and Hagrid in CoS, suspected Sirius in PoA, he rescues all the captives under the lake, he wouldnt accept that Sirius wasn't in the DoM etc etc ... in fact the only time his instincts are right on something major is in HBP when he suspects Malfoy of being up to something - and no one believes him because he's usually wrong about these things. Anyway I could go on but I do agree that Harry must learn to be his own man and can't just try to be like Dumbldore - that's why he died.

i think most of the people above have already voiced my opinions, therefore i'm not going to repeat it, but as for telling and taking people with him on the mission, true he may need some of them with him, especially if they alone have some special skill that Harry requires the help of, but i doubt it, apart from Ron and Hermione, other people might just get in the way, especially as they wont know the full story about the horcruxes, which by the way, should remain a secret.

though i do reckon the other kids and teachers would be involved in some big battle involving deatheathers but just not on Harry's private mission. i think Jo will show us the Harry we all know and love but just as a greater man that we can trust has the skill and confidence to carry it out, Jo's got it all planned out we can trust, and if he does mistakes, he has to be allowed to make mistakes so he can learn from them as he has learnt in the past.
Harry will have grown up now, and he will be of age, i guess in the end his instincs, skill, love, bravery and general need for survival will help him win as it has in the past.

Harry is not making a mistake by not informing the Order. Dumbledore did not keep them ignorant because he did not need their help. He kept them ignorant for seciurity reasons. Nobody in the Order can offer Harry much. (Yes, not even Bill: Hermione is an ace arithmancer, which is the chief cursebreaking theoretical skill.)

Harry also did not make a mistake by breaking up with Ginny. Prince was a story about right vs. easy choices in who Harry includes in his life: and the fact that it was so difficult for him to breakup with Ginny emphasizes the "correctness" of the decision. Now, it might not work out as Harry hopes: but that is another issue.

Also, from a literary point of view, Ginny has to prove herself worthy of Harry. That is best done if she initiates her inclusion in the quest.


Finally, Harry should NOT return to Hogwarts. Again, it is the easy and cowardly decision. There are not Horcruxes at Hogwarts: Dumbledore should have found those immediately. There is not information about their locations at Hogwarts: Dumbledore should have found that immediately. There is nobody there who can teach Harry spells to fight Voldemort. There is nobody there who can tell Harry anything that they did not already tell Dumbledore about Voldemort's past. Harry cannot go out and hunt Horcruxes while limited by a student's curfew hours.


So, to be blunt, I think that this editorial is making the very mistake that Rowling warns against: it counsels that the "easy" choices are the right ones. Almost all the choices recommended here are the wrong ones for Harry to make.

I agree completely. :clap:

well i agree with most people, except hermione and ron are not the only people who need to be told. some others do. firstly is luna and neville even though it may be near the end they will have major influence and when tagging along will need to tell them at least somethin, eg. dont touch anything remotely like a locket unless directed to. second is dobby, the uk cover shows him with gryffindors sword riding on harrys back, therefore either they are running from something or dobby is injured, all that treasure, one of which is probably a horcrux. maybe voldie tempts them away with riches lol just like the blood he underestimates people lol

thirdly and finally ginny, she will be the true hero of the story i think we all agree on that, she may die to help, or destroy a horcrux harry should e,g, instant death

Originally Posted by Wimsey
Finally, Harry should NOT return to Hogwarts. Again, it is the easy and cowardly decision. There are not Horcruxes at Hogwarts: Dumbledore should have found those immediately. There is not information about their locations at Hogwarts: Dumbledore should have found that immediately. There is nobody there who can teach Harry spells to fight Voldemort. There is nobody there who can tell Harry anything that they did not already tell Dumbledore about Voldemort's past. Harry cannot go out and hunt Horcruxes while limited by a student's curfew hours.

I would disagree....Harry does not need to return as a student...however, Dumbledore has stated that Hogwarts contains an enormous amount of ancient magic...magic that probaly would serve Harry in some way, shape or form. Also, look to the bottom of your own replies....and we see a great Chekov quote......Just substitute Dumbledore's Portrait for the gun....and Harry will need to revisit Hogwarts, if not for anything but that.

by Dawson Smith
4. Not returning to Hogwarts. He will, of course, as that’s how the books are arranged...Ms. Rowling has done it again. How many times have we read the book covers as "Year X at Hogwarts" when actually they simply say "Year X". There is no guarantee that any action takes place at Hogwarts.

Ginny won

Good editorial. Harry will have to decide who to trust in DH and it won't be easy. I have a good feeling about Lupin though

Ginny won

I’m also enthralled by the theory that Regulus Black is now living as Stubby Boardman

Wasn't it Sirius that this was refering to??

That aside great job on this editorial! Very interesting and well argued! :)

This is a very interesting editorial, but there are some points I don't agree on. I do agree, however, that Harry needs to tell some people, such as Ginny and Lupin. Perhaps not the whole story, but give them the basics. He'll need help on the Horcrux hunt. However, I disagree with the idea that not telling McGonagall was a mistake. I think it's good he didn't tell McGonagall.

Posted by KathyH:
In general, a great editorial, but I also disagree that Harry should reveal the Horcruxes to McGonagall. We know she wants to help Harry, but we have also seen that she doesn't handle information very well. In PS/SS, she did nothing (as far as we know) when the trio told her that someone was after the stone. She also didn't deal well when Harry told her that Draco was up to something in HBP. Now, as presumed head of the Order, how would she deal with the information that Harry has to track down fragments of the soul of the enemy? I can't imagine her reacting well, or even believing him at all at first. In this respect she reminds me a bit of Molly Weasley. She wants the best for Harry, but she does not see him as an adult, able to make his own decisions. Granted, he is not yet of age, but that really doesn't matter in this case. Her reaction when he refused to tell her what he and Dumbledore had been doing shows that she is not ready to learn about the horcruxes. The people he should tell are Ginny, maybe Neville and Luna, and possibly Lupin. Ginny, because he can't leave her out of the hunt even if she doesn't come along for the ride. Neville and Luna, because they have proven that they can be trusted. And Lupin, because he is the closest thing Harry has to a parent now, and we know he can keep secrets well. Plus, as a former DADA teacher he could be useful. Anyway, that is all I can think to say right now.


I completely agree with this. This just about sums up what I wanted to say. :)

I completely agree that Harry made a mistake in deciding not to come back to Hogwarts. He remembered what Dumbledore said about only truly being gone when none ewre loyal to him, so how could he have forgotten the very next thing that Dumbledore said, about help always being given at Hogwarts to those who asked?

No matter; I am sure that at some point Harry will realize that he needs help and remember that Hogwarts is the best place to ask for it.

Once again, I didn't notice my editorial had been posted until several days later. Shame on me.

Anyway, down to the comments.

First, I did, indeed, mix up Kennilworthy Whisp and Newt Scamander. Sorry about that.

Second, although I've discussed this many times before, I don't think Snape is evil, and no, DD didn't ask Snape to kill him to save Harry. He did it to save Snape and Draco. And he has his reasons.

Third, and most pertinently, I understand and agree with the arguments for why Harry shouldn't have told McGonnagal, but now the very safety of the Order is in question. We don't know what DD was telling them, but now they, too, don't have him there to tell them anything at all. We cannot expect them to simply give up the fight, now that it's gotten more real than ever before, and McGonnagal is probably their de facto leader now. Given the circumstances, I think she'd believe Harry and be trustworthy with the information, even if he'd be wise not to tell her everything, per se. But at the very least, I think the Order needs to understand that there is a very real cause behind Voldemort's immortality, and that they don't have a chance against him themselves, and that the particulars are better known by as few people as possible to get the job done.

I'm astounded by people who think, somehow, that Luna and Neville have earned Harry's trust ion a way that Ginny hasn't. What is the basis for this? They were all doing the same things, only Ginny did arguably more and knows Harry better. I'm lost here.

And finally, let me say what I absolutely should have written in the editorial. Harry alone can defeat Voldemort, but this is in no way only his fight. Voldemort's actions have affected everyone we've met in the book, and still do. The threat of him and his Death Eaters hangs over every character, including the Death Eaters themselves, as we learned in HBP. Every single character has a dog in this fight, and has as much a right as Harry to fight it, and yet Harry continues (at this point) as if his special destiny means that he alone (and Ron and Hermione, because DD allows it) can take part in it. This is not only incorrect, but gravely irresponsible. The ideals they are fighting for are not his alone to fight for, and I believe that in this DD made a rather huge mistake in leading Harry to believe that they are.

The end battle will not just be between Harry and Voldemort. Such would be trivial. It will be a grand battle, and Harry MUST step up as the leader of it lest somebody else decides to. He doesn't need to tell them everything, but he needs to lead them with his natural skill, and to do that he can't simply try to channel Dumbledore the whole time. He must be his own man.

That is all.

I don't remember the Order being useful. Maybe that's the purpose. Not to do it on his own, because it's everyone's duty, willing, and responsability.

I agree with this editorial for the most part. I defiantely agree that Harry shouldn't have gone all Spiderman on Ginny, but I disagree that Harry needs to tell the whole Order about the horcruxes. It is simply too easy for LV to access thier minds and find out that HArry knows about the horcruxes.

I also have to say that I don't believe the horcruxes in and of themselves are overly dangerous. DOn't forget that Harry, GInny, ROn, and Hermione all touched the diary-horcrux without being physically harmed. It is the charms and curses around the horcruxes that are dangerous.

Think about it. Would LV trust his soul to magical objects that could be instantly labeled as dangerous and possibly identified if they made people instataneously hurt or sick? If you saw a friend touch an object and watch their hand wither before your eyes, you ar going to know you are dealing with dark magic and you would probably call in officials to figure out what it was. Of course, LV would not make his soul so easy to identify. So he put charms around the horcrux so that you can't see the object and guess what you are dealing with until it is too late.

Great editorial, loved all the little points u seem to hav noticed that i havent heard before, such as trelawney's third prophecy and harry's influence with slughorn's appointment. Not so sure if ginny will hav such a major part as u say but she will be important. And also, harry shouldnt tell the order about the horcruxes collectively, maybe some members such as lupin , but he definitely should tell ginny.
welldone!

Good ideas! I like this theory. I don't really agree with the McGonagall thing and the 'Regulus Black is living as Stubby Boardman' idea. I think Ginny will be the person that can help Harry the most, after all, she's the only one we know to have lived after coming into contact with a horcrux..

Since Dumbledore is my favourite character in the series I may be a little biased, but I have to say I disagree with most of what was said in this editorial about the way Harry's character is developing.

1. "Being your own man" isn't in and of itself a virtue. The ability to learn from others, on the other hand, is.
There is no reason why thinking about what Dumbledore would do is necessarily a mistake; all it means is that Harry has finally matured and is able to think rationally before jumping into action. While I agree with your point that Sirius' death at the DoM was by no means Harry's fault, his rash actions did lead to a battle that was completely unnecessary and avoidable, and achieved nothing (one could argue that it led to Dumbledore finally opening up, but JKR could have chosen to reveal all that information in any number of ways).

Stopping to think, and listening to and considering other people's points of view, can only lead to better decision-making. It does not have to undermine Harry's own impulses - he still hears what his intuition tells him to do; what it allows him to do is to decide whether its necessarily the right thing to do.

And this consideration doesn't have to be limited to "what Dumbledore would do" (leaving aside the point that Dumbledore is in fact a very wise, knowledgeable, and intelligent wizard, whose great mistake - that we know of - of not divulging the secret of the prophecy to Harry sooner, is in my opinion highly overrated). Being more inclined to listen to Hermione, for one thing, might avoid future unnecessary tragedies like the DoM incident.

2. I still fail to see the inherent all-round awesomeness (can't think of a better word right now) of Harry's character that many people, including JKR and Dumbledore, seem to laud. Yes, he loves deeply and thoroughly. Yes, he's brave. Yes, he has a natural talent in DADA. I don't mean to diminish the value of these traits, but to extrapolate these towards the idea that he can do no wrong is a mistake (similar to the one we apparently made about Dumbledore).

The example that jumped out at me while reading this editorial was Harry's "ability to move him [Slughorn] in ways that Dumbledore never could have". These "ways that Dumbledore never could", to remind everyone, consisted of
i) Convincing Slughorn that Hogwarts was probably safer than anywhere else.
Its been over a year since I read the book and I don't have it with me, but from what I remember, all Harry did was point out that you don't have to be in the Order to teach at Hogwarts and that Dumbledore was the only one Voldemort had ever feared, and of course have Lily's eyes. This was hardly the work of a genius people-convincer, and if anything, it showed that Harry had learned some logical thinking from Hermione.
ii) Getting Slughorn to reveal what he knew about Voldemort and Horcruxes.
How did he do this? By drinking Felix felicis and getting Slughorn drunk! And, again, having Lily's eyes. Unlike the earlier example, this didn't involve any skill on Harry's part.

So I have difficulty believing that Harry has some infallible intuition and undefinable skill, tempering of which by consideration of other people's opinions can only be detrimental.

Good thinking - especially about the whole Stubby Boardman thing. Yes Luna does say it's Sirius but we don't know how similar in looks they were and the witch who gives the interview to the quibbler make have thought it was Sirius based on looks alone.

About HP trusting people. Does anybody else have concerns about Sprout? JKR makes a big thing out of the whole plant killing Bode episode on OoP and we've seen that she knows how to grow and handle it from book 1. And we see a small, probably disguised wizard/witch visiting Bode on their first visit to Mr. Weasley. Also I've always felt that one of the staff at Hogwarts was a secret Death Eater (not the obvious one I mean, there's nothing secret there).

I've seen that lots of people seem to feel that Neville will become Herbology Prof in the epilogue so what do they think will happen to Sprout????