Tri-Wizard Blues

So I’m sat listening to Stephen Fry read the Goblet of Fire to me for what must be the 18th time and something has been bothering me. Perhaps you can shed some light or even agree with me, anyway…


The Tri-Wizard Tournament

Ok so it hardly took up so much time that they had to cancel Quidditch but I understand that if a champion was a house player it would disadvantage the house. But how come the students were satisfied with it…. I mean three events over the year (four including the Yule Ball), but apart from the first task they are hardly a spectator sport. Watching a lake for over an hour has to be kind of boring, what was the point in Bagman being there to commentate, it the Merpeople that had to tell the judges what had happened at the bottom of the lake.

And then there is the third task if they can’t see that Krum is going around cursing champions they clearly can’t see into the maze… so what was the point in sitting there for so long.

It just seems like a very dull spectator sport and I fail to see what enjoyment the students would have got from it.

This is ruining my enjoyment of Book 4

Any thoughts?

Michael
x

(nice first post)
i think that they only watched the tasks to see who the winners were, i understand what you mean though because it would be no fun till the end.
probably because it comes after a long time and they would want to see what it brings??? sorry
but i think that they watched for the winner

I've always thought this was a pretty lame spectator sport as well. Especially since I assume there is probably some magic way of broadcasting what is going on under water or in the maze.

Anyway, the real reason that Quidditch matches were cancelled was because Rowling hates writing them.

I don't really get the Thread name, but here goes, I think that the spectators veiw of the competition was not very good, but they have some vision, otherwise, why have spectators there at all.

This actually just came up in another thread, about why there would be spectators if they could not tell what was going on. However, my impressions of the final task had always been that the spectators were sitting in the quidditch boxes, which would give them some view of the maze, but this is not what is in the movie (although I know that movie is not cannon, JKR has imput in it). I do find it strange.

I agree I had always thought that sitting in the stands would allow spectators to see. however this then doesnt explain why krum was not stopped from cursing the other champions surely at least DD would have picked up on that... and the second task would be incredably dull

Michael
x

I agree I had always thought that sitting in the stands would allow spectators to see. however this then doesnt explain why krum was not stopped from cursing the other champions surely at least DD would have picked up on that... and the second task would be incredably dull

Michael
x

I'm not sure about that either! Maybe they all got hit with the Confundus Charm or something, and thought they were watching an extremely exciting Quidditch match?
I would have been bored out of my mind!

I agree, I think that the second and third tasks would be mighty boring to watch. I always thought they'd be much better if some sort of TV were created and they could watch the action...like attach a camera to the champion's shoulders (I understand normal Muggle electricity doesn't work at Hogwarts, but surely they could think of some sort of magical alternative.)...this would ruin the plot, but would be much better for those watching.

Maybe its really more of an opportunity to socialize.

Maybe its really more of an opportunity to socialize.

Well, that and probably to validate the experience- the cheer those who emerged from the task and bear witness to failure.

Besides which, how dull would it have been if Harry said, "Right, well, I'm off to fight the dragon!" and have Ron and Hermione troop off to classes without him. :D

But you're right- the whole experience is not very spectator-friendly.

EXT. THE STANDS ALL THE STUDENTS ARE WATCHING THE SECOND TASK

Ron asleep wakes with a start

RON
What did I miss?
Hermione snores loudly.

BAGMAN
(his voice magically amplified)
And Yes! All the champions are still in the Lake! It must be mighty cold in there!

RON
Hermione, I’m bored wake up!

HERMIONE
Huh!! What? What’s wrong? Is Harry okay?

RON
I don’t know... I’m sure he’s fine, but you’re drooling Hermione.
Hermione glares at Ron.

BAGMAN
(his voice magically amplified)
Wait what’s this, I think, yes someone surfacing. And the first champion out of the Lake is... The Giant Squid

Bagman’s glares at Hagrid

BAGMAN (CONT’D)
Hagrid do you really think this is the time to be feeding the Squid?

HAGRID
It’s gotta eat, nothin' betta t' do.

FADE OUT.

Socialmike: The above scene would work if it weren't for the fact that Ron and Hermione were at the bottom of the lake during the Second Task. ;)

But yeah, the whole thing does seem pretty boring, and doesn't explain the cancellation of Quidditch except that the Champions would be too busy to play. (We can't have Quidditch without Harry!)

that is a very good point lol just got bored decided to write something showed myself up now lol

I agree it would be very boreing just to set there waiting for someone to come out.

No more boring than watching a bunch of automobiles covered with logos go round and round and round and round. Until one or more of them cracks up. :)

You've got a point. But it could be really scary, just imagining what's happening out of sight. The lake task was only 1 hour, and it was cold, so no one's going to sleep. The maze task was probably shorter, and there was always a chance of seeing someone shoot up red sparks and get rescued, at least.

Enjoyed your screenplay anyhow, socialmike.

I agree they didn't need to cancel Quidditch, the excuse given was that the teachers would be too busy but I don't think the teachers had that much extra work to do during the tournament, more was done by the Ministry.
The tournament was on 3 days out of the year, it really wasn't fair on the 28 players who play for their house team. And if the Champion happened to be on the team just choose another player, a reserve player. They could have scheduled it so it wasn't on the same night.
But then again the students from Beaxbatons and Durmstrang would also be missing out on playing for the Quidditch teams at their own schools (if they have them) so perhaps it was fairer for none of the students to have Quidditch.
That brings up interesting points, would the other students of Durmstrang and Beauxbatons have had Quidditch and classes as normal that year. It would have been interesting not having a headmaster/mistress for a whole year!

I was hoping for more then 3 events when I first had a read through the book.

I think there reason for the lack of Quidditch in GOF was just due to plot and time constraints, GOF is pretty complex as is, it didnt need Quidditch matches on top of it.

But yes it makes no sense that Quiditch was cancelled for the year but then again a lot of GOF is pretty weak plot wise. for example if Voldemort intended killing Harry at his re birth why not just take him at the start of the year, have fake Moody plant a Portkey much sooner, why did he wait for the Triwizard and the whole year to pass and let Dumbledores and a few others suspicison mount? bad planning there Voldie, not so smart :no:

Course it wouldnt have been much of a book then, but I do think this is one of Rowlings biggest plot holes.

another thought grabs me.... "accio broom" in the third task might make it alittle easier

Michael
x

how about "accio egg" in the first task

I always thought that all the students were too busy trying to get to know the foreign students and supporting Harry and Cedric to worry about Quiddich.

first off, great first post, and welcome to the forum.

I agree they didn't need to cancel Quidditch, the excuse given was that the teachers would be too busy but I don't think the teachers had that much extra work to do during the tournament, more was done by the Ministry.
The tournament was on 3 days out of the year, it really wasn't fair on the 28 players who play for their house team. And if the Champion happened to be on the team just choose another player, a reserve player. They could have scheduled it so it wasn't on the same night.
But then again the students from Beaxbatons and Durmstrang would also be missing out on playing for the Quidditch teams at their own schools (if they have them) so perhaps it was fairer for none of the students to have Quidditch.
That brings up interesting points, would the other students of Durmstrang and Beauxbatons have had Quidditch and classes as normal that year. It would have been interesting not having a headmaster/mistress for a whole year!

this gives me a lot to think about.

i personally think it ridiculous that quidditch was cancelled. not because i personally love reading about it, because i really just don't, but because there is no valid reason. your point about durmstrang and beauxbatons students being unable to play is a decent one. however, i hardly see it as enough of a reason to cancel an entire season of such a beloved sport. no, i definitely agree that it is more than likely because it made it easier for jo; cutting out quidditch entirely would allow her to focus on the massive plot and subplots she confronted in gof. if she had indeed left it in, it would have been very strange not to address it all. it was probably just a lot easier not to worry about it at all.

as for the students of the two other schools:
i always assumed that classes went on there just as planned. they probably even had quidditch (if, of course, their schools had quidditch teams...which i think it is safe to assume). as for the headmaster/headmistress being out, i never really thought about it until this moment. it makes the most sense to me that the second to them (their mcgonagall, of you will) would simply take over- as would be the case if dumbeldore had been the one to leave.

Well, that and probably to validate the experience- the cheer those who emerged from the task and bear witness to failure.

Besides which, how dull would it have been if Harry said, "Right, well, I'm off to fight the dragon!" and have Ron and Hermione troop off to classes without him. :D

But you're right- the whole experience is not very spectator-friendly.


i agree with you 100%.

although it seems strange to sit there and wait an hour, it seems even stranger not to.

I think that as well as the main tournament they should have organised side-competitions between the schools, open to everyone, not just the champions.

Inter-school Quidditch?

Perhaps a dueling tournament? Or maybe simple a contest of who can perform the most impressive magic, like an illusion-creation contest?

There are many other things that could have been done to make it more interesting, and to take advantage of the rare occasion of three schools coming together and living as one school for a whole year.

how about "accio egg" in the first task

:rotfl:

that really got me going.

although a minor inconsistency (if it can be called that...i am sure there is a better word for it) it is quite amusing. i never thought of that before.

how about "accio egg" in the first task

I wondered that too! I mean, Harry spends all this time learning the Summoning Charm for that task, and then he uses it to get his broom?! *forehead smack*

I've always thought this was a pretty lame spectator sport as well. Especially since I assume there is probably some magic way of broadcasting what is going on under water or in the maze.

Anyway, the real reason that Quidditch matches were cancelled was because Rowling hates writing them.

why does she hate writing them?

JO has said she hates writing the quidditch matches because you can only do so much to make them different and interesting. Check out the Accio Quote website for the exact quote if you're interested.

Accio egg - that frustrated me as well! I guess Harry is more prone to the power of suggestion without being cursed!

I also wondered about the whole spectator thing. At the World Cup those supersized screens were used for close ups of Krum. These would have been handy for the tri wizard, especially given how important it is supposed to be and with the reputation it has as an event. Haven't the wizarding world come up with an alternative to tv and cameras?! If not, how did those screens work?

The other thing is, we've heard next to nothing about the Tri wizard since, other than the aftermath of Cedric's death on Harry and Cho's relationship, and Fluer's reintroduction to the support charcter list and the occasional hint that Hermione is still writing to Victor.

I cant help but wonder though if it was supposed to be a clue that Harry knows more than he (or we) thinks he does. There was something said (somewhere) about Harry having had accumulated more knowledge than he knows that will help him in the fight against LV. Obviously this could include the pensieve, but I wonder if there are more skills, spells and general magical knowledge within the series that could be used in the same way as Harry recognising his flying skill, using Neville's knowledge of herbology etc. Harry won't have Moody/Barty Jr guiding him this time though, so he needs to put the skills with the situations himself.

how about "accio egg" in the first task

The Horntail is apparently very protective of her eggs. I'm not sure how powerful a Summoning Charm is but I think it has its limitations - the Horntail could have grabbed the egg with her mouth or something. Also, I'm not sure if the Horntail was sitting on her eggs or not - it says in GoF that she was definitely "crouched low" over them. Maybe Cedric or Krum used Summoning Charms after distracting their respective dragons.

Or maybe none of the champions was that clever...

But while we're at it, why did Crouch have to make the Triwizard Cup into a Portkey? Why not make a book that he could have Harry pick up off his desk a Portkey? I hate the idea of plot holes, but there might be one here.

But while we're at it, why did Crouch have to make the Triwizard Cup into a Portkey? Why not make a book that he could have Harry pick up off his desk a Portkey? I hate the idea of plot holes, but there might be one here.

I think the idea was to keep Harry's death looking as if it were an accident. The original plan was for Voldemort to regenerate, kill Harry, send him back to the maze, and let the rest of the world think that Harry died by accident during a task. Disappearing from Moody's office would be a bit difficult to explain. Voldmort wanted his resurrection to be secret.

I agree why did't fake Moody enchant a book into a portkey and when he wasn't on the ready, ressurect Voldy, finally depositing Harry's lifeless body at the edge of the forbidden forest, or farther in. By the way, that would be really sad and I'm not cold hearted enough to want that, but it would be more sensible and logical than getting him when he was at the ready.

A big part of the Tri-Wizard Tournament was supposed to be about making friends with the other schools. Seems like some of that happened--Hermione and Krum, for instance; JKR has said that he'll be back for DH. Dumbledore's speech at the end about everyone coming together and not letting Voldemort make them lose their trust in each other may hit pay dirt in DH as well--perhaps the students from the other schools will return to fight the DEs.

As far as the Tasks themselves, I've gone to sporting events I wasn't really interested in just for the fun of being in a crowd of friends with everyone really excited. I think maybe people were at the 2nd and 3rd Task for that (as well as wanting to know as soon as possible who the winner was).

cupsoftea, I read something on another thread that offered a reason why Moody didn't Portkey Harry to Voldemort right away. You remember that in the graveyard scene the shades of Harry's parents tell him to get to the Triwizard Cup, that it'll take him back to Hogwarts. That seems strange; Moody didn't intend Harry to survive, so why would he make it a two-way Portkey? The suggestion I read was that either Voldemort planned on sending Harry's corpse back to Hogwarts, terrifying everyone with no one knowing what happened to him, or that Voldemort planned on showing up at Tournament's end himself in his splendid new body with his DEs in tow. Terrify everybody, kill kill kill.

That sounds like something he'd do . . . although they could have apparated rather than using a Portkey. Still, thought I'd mention.

However, we don't know that Portkeys aren't like doors, if it takes you one way it has to, some how, take you back the other. It might be that there is no such thing as a one way portkey.

I wonder if JK actually realized how boring the tasks would be to the spectators...after all, they could only actually watch one of the events.

Anyways, I think they were okay with it because it was such a huge deal. The press was watching, the whole wizarding world was watching, and it was a deadly game which never fails to attract attention.

I think they are happy to just be there at the beginning and end of the trials. From the sound of it everybody thinks they are very special.

Didn't the Portkeys that were used at the beginning of the book before the World Cup, just get chucked into a big pile of other used Portkeys? If the same Portkeys were used to transport people back, then it would be a two-way Portkey. Yeah, I read somewhere that JK Rowling doesn't enjoy writing Quidditch matches, and there's the possibility that the students that were chosen could be on a Quidditch team. Dumbledore and the teachers would want Hogwarts to have an equal chance without having the champions focusing on inter-house Quidditch as well.

Accio Egg; Harry would have to have the most interesting, entertaining and successful attempt at the egg. I agree that it would've been easier to just say "Accio Egg!" but do we know how well Harry is on his feet? With the broom, it would've have been something that the other champions wouldn't have thought of because they weren't there that night when Hagrid had shown Harry. It did take him a while to think of using his skills on the broom to get around the dragon, he did see Charlie flying around the other dragons that night as well.

With the second and third tasks, it would've been a tad boring if you were in the stands. Maybe each school had felt very patriotic to their school that even though they might not be able to see what is happening, the anticipation builds to know who will be the first to submerge from the lake or take hold of the cup. But it shows that JK Rowling cares about her readers, and the readability of these tasks.

I wonder if JK actually realized how boring the tasks would be to the spectators...after all, they could only actually watch one of the events.

Anyways, I think they were okay with it because it was such a huge deal. The press was watching, the whole wizarding world was watching, and it was a deadly game which never fails to attract attention.

Yeah, it is such a big event and people would love to be able to say they had just been there to witness it. I never considered how boring the second task in particular would be. I always envisioned the maze as being open enough for the students to view what was happening, but then when Krum started attacking the others this theory was ruined. It would have been more fun for spectators this way.

cupsoftea, I read something on another thread that offered a reason why Moody didn't Portkey Harry to Voldemort right away. You remember that in the graveyard scene the shades of Harry's parents tell him to get to the Triwizard Cup, that it'll take him back to Hogwarts. That seems strange; Moody didn't intend Harry to survive, so why would he make it a two-way Portkey? The suggestion I read was that either Voldemort planned on sending Harry's corpse back to Hogwarts, terrifying everyone with no one knowing what happened to him, or that Voldemort planned on showing up at Tournament's end himself in his splendid new body with his DEs in tow. Terrify everybody, kill kill kill.

That sounds like something he'd do . . . although they could have apparated rather than using a Portkey. Still, thought I'd mention.


hmm...yea it is most likely that the reason the Cup was a two way Portkey was so that Harry's body could be sent back, thus there would be no suspicion, as it would be assumed it was a result of the Tournament, thus no questions asked and yes this does give justification for the whole Voldemort waiting all year to get Harry. He was being clever after all. Thanks shewoman!

I think there reason for the lack of Quidditch in GOF was just due to plot and time constraints, GOF is pretty complex as is, it didnt need Quidditch matches on top of it.

But yes it makes no sense that Quiditch was cancelled for the year but then again a lot of GOF is pretty weak plot wise. for example if Voldemort intended killing Harry at his re birth why not just take him at the start of the year, have fake Moody plant a Portkey much sooner, why did he wait for the Triwizard and the whole year to pass and let Dumbledores and a few others suspicison mount? bad planning there Voldie, not so smart :no:

Course it wouldnt have been much of a book then, but I do think this is one of Rowlings biggest plot holes.


This has been brought up already but I think the timing was to make it look like part of the tournament. If any of the other suggestions psted in this thread were followed, i.e. a lifelss Harry is found in the Forbidden Forest it would raise to much suspician. Regardless of how it happen Dumbledore would suspect Voldemort if Harry died, it was the rest of the world he wanted to fool, and thanks to the Ministry he pretty much did.

As for "Accio Egg" your all forgetting what happened in the MOM when Lucious tried to Accio Prophecy, Harry just hung onto it. So Harry would have looked pretty foolish standing there in front of everyone screaming Accio Egg and the Dragon just hanging on to it.

Not to mention Voldemort has apparently never read Peter's Evil Overlord list

#6 I will not gloat over my enemies' predicament before killing them.
or
#12 One of my advisors will be an average five-year-old child. Any flaws in my plan that he is able to spot will be corrected before implementation.
or
#78 I will not tell my Legions of Terror "And he must be taken alive!" The command will be "And try to take him alive if it is reasonably practical."

Tri-Wizard events as a spectator sport does seem a bit boring, but if there was nothing else to look forward to then I suppose it would have been exciting. Especially since it's an event that occurs every few years and the fact that there were four champions this year.

On a similar note, I've often wondered how the students from each school were able to become friendly with other schools without side events. We all know that teenagers tend to stick to their own groups out of comfort so I'm a bit surprised that inter-school relationships were even formed. Wizard teens must be very friendly and welcoming :). My personal explaination was that extracurricular events like socials or club meetings must be going on.