Voldemort: Will He Be Gone After All?

Discussion for Voldemort: Will He Be Gone After All? (http://www.mugglenet.com/editorials/editorials/edit-ianr01.shtml) by Ian Rohrer.

i think that may happen and harry can get rid of voldemort doing something with the veil. but what can a ghost do after all ? would voldemort like to wander around being totally useless ? i dont really think so. and i wouldnt wanna see a plot twist like that from jo...

it is a good thought but i think it is more like a forum theory than a mugglenet editorial.

I was just thinking about this today and i suppose it makes sense,but what wuld happen to him once he was a ghost?Would he haunt places? It's not like he'd be able to do any magic.Though it would be an appropriate punishment,to wander the earth forever thinking about how his greatest fear has come to past and there are things worse than death.

Voldemort becoming a ghost is a pretty logical end for him, but what implications does it really pose? While poltergeists can throw chalk and unscrew chandeliers, ghosts are essentially inconsequential. If there's any truth to Dumbledore's statement that, "there are worse things than death", then for Voldemort, becoming a ghost would fit that bill.

This is a no-brainer. I've thought since reading HBP that Voldemort will become a ghost for the same reasons outlined by Nearly Headless Nick. The question is, what then?

Knowing Jo's propensity for humor and irony, and knowing that the position of DADA instructor is both cursed and vacant, the answer is obvious. Voldemort will spend eternity as the DADA teacher.

Ghosts have no powers other than speech, and are notoriously ineffective teachers. It's the perfect fit. He will turn kids away from the dark arts by making them boring.

There are things worse than death.

That's possible, I suppose. After all, what can a ghost really do? They wander around, they can't touch anything, they really can't do anything. Could that perhaps be LV's punishment? Doomed to wander the Earth forever as a spirit, unable to do anything? That just might be it, but I don't think that would be a very satisfying ending. Afterall, he is Voldemort. Who knows? He might find a way to regain a body even if he is a ghost. No, I really don't think that that will be a very good ending to Harry Potter and Deathly Hallows.

This is a no-brainer. I've thought since reading HBP that Voldemort will become a ghost for the same reasons outlined by Nearly Headless Nick. The question is, what then?

Knowing Jo's propensity for humor and irony, and knowing that the position of DADA instructor is both cursed and vacant, the answer is obvious. Voldemort will spend eternity as the DADA teacher.

Ghosts have no powers other than speech, and are notoriously ineffective teachers. It's the perfect fit. He will turn kids away from the dark arts by making them boring.

There are things worse than death.


Wow... that's very interesting... I highly doubt that that will happen. That, I think, is a very unlikely and unsatisfying ending.

It seems so obvious when you write it this way. I appreciate the short, to the point editorial with such a simple option. Hmmmm. The question really is: What then?

I've been sure of this for a long time--it's just that I doubt he could do anything as a ghost . . . and there may be something that Harry / the Order / MoM could do. After all, the ghosts we've met so far have been okay, nothing extreme like Voldemort might be. We haven't seen a ghost that needed to be removed . . . but maybe it's possible.

uh... he has a broken soul so he can't come back

I don't really understand why this was an editiorial, but anyway... It's interesting but I can't see voldemort being a ghost. I feel like something more "exciting" will happen to him & he won't be able to come back. Maybe he'll be pushed through the veil or something similar to it. It's possible that he can be a ghost, but not very plausible.

Despite the insistence of many, I have always held that Harry will face an ultimate choice of vanquishing Voldemort non-fatally or fatally. And HArry will choose the former. I find the idea behind this editorial supportive of my position, because Voldemort fears death, and would become a ghost if killed, he is not really gotten rid of as the pro-death people would envision. SO there is no point to killing him, which would leave him to haunt Harry.

since rowling said herself that voldemorts biggest fear is death and he would see a boggart as a dead form of himself, i dont think he would want to return as a ghost and be reminded that hes no longer living and constantly seeing what was his biggest fear

I'm personally in the Voldemort-will-get-his-soul-sucked-out camp, but I do think this is a distinct possibility as well. Although it leaves a rather open ending, don't you think? I mean Voldemort can be persuasive and charming when need be and he's really a rather good speaker. His name stuck fear into the hearts of wizards even after they’d thought him been dead for a good number of years as we’ve seen in PS through OotP. His ghost could still hold sway over people and while he can’t affect the physical world or do magic, he'd still be fully capable of manipulating people to do evil.

No one can honestly expect that Ghostmort would be content in simply finding a dark corner to sulk in for the rest of eternity. The moment he’d realize that he can go anywhere, talk to anyone and no one could stop him because he’s floating on another plane of existence, you can bet your bottom Sickle that he’d begin to form some brilliant nefarious scheme.

Somehow i don't think Jo would allow the ghost of Voldemort to be a bother to our heroes after the "lived happily ever after" part. Also I really enjoyed js1138's reply,

This is a no-brainer. I've thought since reading HBP that Voldemort will become a ghost for the same reasons outlined by Nearly Headless Nick. The question is, what then?

Knowing Jo's propensity for humor and irony, and knowing that the position of DADA instructor is both cursed and vacant, the answer is obvious. Voldemort will spend eternity as the DADA teacher.

Ghosts have no powers other than speech, and are notoriously ineffective teachers. It's the perfect fit. He will turn kids away from the dark arts by making them boring.

There are things worse than death.

http://web.mac.com/cenzonico1/iWeb/The_Dumbledores/The_Prophecy/The_Prophecy.html

http://homepage.mac.com/cenzonico1/Sites/dumbledorepensieve.jpg

of course, Voldemort is coming back to Hogwarts as a ghost and he is going to replace the Bloody Baron as the official slytherin ghost. Will the other ghosts be in awe of him, as with the Baron, or will he be the laughing stock? That would be the untimate revenge .

I rather agree with phil stone here I really don't see Harry killing V. But that said I think there is an important point that has been missed here. It is true that V would be relegated to just being a voice, but as this series has proven, words can be extremely powerful as a motivating force both for good as well as evil. Jo's words have fostered thousands of ideas and theories and motivated children to love to read. But one must not forget to look at history for examples of words used to foster evil - Mein Kamph spawned the rise of Hitler and WW2 and Marx's ideas spawned the rise of communism. Just because V could not physically accomplish the conquering of the world himself does not make him any less dangerous.

Even if Voldemort comes back a a ghost (which, I think, is unlikely) we already know of two methods of getting rid of ghosts.

1. Expose him to a Basilisk (as happened to Nearly Headless Nick in Chapter 11 of CoS).

2. The ministry of magic has the powe to "ban" Ghosts from approaching certain places or people.(They did this to Myrtle at the request of one of her contemporaries, according to what Myrtle herself said).

A short, to the point editorial although I think the topic is unlikely to occur at the end of the story

The Bloody Baron seems to be relatively harmless as a ghost but is bloody and I would like to know why. Perhaps he was an evil git in his time also and is after all the Slytherin ghost. Who's to say that Voldemort won't become an ineffectual ghost as the Bloody Baron seems to be (remember only Peeves seems afraid of him when he is around but still plays up when he isn't). I laughed when someone suggested that he would become the DADA teacher forever and bore people into losing interest in the Dark Arts as Professor Binns bores those in his History of Magic classes. It would be ironic to have Voldemort teaching DADA a a ghost once dead as he s wanted the position while alive. However I'd prefer to have his soul sucked out by a Dementor and be in effect a Zombie-like being. That would be something worse than death I suppose as he would be powerless to do any evil - or anything for that matter.

This is an idea which I also though had some merit, however I also think that the 'one wiith the power to defeat the dark lord' is very significant - Jo doesn't make mistakes. I believe that Harry will have a way of defeating LV without the need to 'kill' per se. Remember that AK splits the soul as it is the ultimate act of evil, and one of Harry's special talents is that he has a soul that is whole and untarnished. I very much doubt that will change.

Ghosts can have some physical interaction with the "real" world. Remember Moaning Myrtle's tantrums splashing water everywhere. I also think Prof. Binns interacts with his notes.

Then we certainly don't want Voldyghost as the DADA teacher......

uh... he has a broken soul so he can't come back

My thoughts are the same. He has a broken soul so he wouldn't be able to leave it behind. Hopefully. Who wants a depressed LV floating around. He wouldn't be much use as a ghost except for his knowledge of the Dark Arts. I guess he could try to train some prodigy. Frightening thought.

Also I think that what was meant by imprint when Nick said it was that a person can not come back. They may leave behind an imprint of themselves as a ghost. That is thier imprint. At least that is how I interpreted that line from Sir Nick.

This is an idea which I also though had some merit, however I also think that the 'one wiith the power to defeat the dark lord' is very significant - Jo doesn't make mistakes. I believe that Harry will have a way of defeating LV without the need to 'kill' per se. Remember that AK splits the soul as it is the ultimate act of evil, and one of Harry's special talents is that he has a soul that is whole and untarnished. I very much doubt that will change.The soul is split by murder, and Harry will not murder Voldemort even if Harry kills Voldemort.

The suggestion that Voldemort might become a ghost upon death definitely has merit. There is no reason to think that Voldemort could inhabit a new body, however: a ghost is an imprint on a soul, not a soul itself. Souls can inhabit bodies, but we do not know that imprints can do so.

So, if anybody is hoping that Rowling is leaving the door open for a sequel in this manner, then I think that they will be disappointed!

My thoughts are the same. He has a broken soul so he wouldn't be able to leave it behind. Hopefully. There is no reason to think that a soul missing a few fragments is any less capable of becoming a ghost than is an intact soul. If you tear six small strips from a piece of paper, does this deprive that piece from any of the properties of a whole sheet? (You probably can write just as much on it as you could before!)

Well, I always thought that a person had to be "whole" in order to leave an imprint. Sure, it might be possible, but Voldemort could still ... in some way scare people etc. He will always be feared. Unless they lock him somewhere, but that's probably impossible with a ghost. But I've always thought that Voldemort, with his mutilated soul and appearance, couldn't leave an imprint behind... that would be too easy.
I don't know... and I'm not going to think about it:) I'll wait for book 7:)

I actually like the idea of Voldemort becoming a ghost. In real life, their is no ultimate and complete defeat of evil. Someone terrible and evil may be destroyed, but there is always someone waiting in the shadows to take their place. As a ghost, Voldemort would be able to have to mold young minds and influence them to commit evil acts. Also, as funny as it is to think of Voldemort as a teacher, he did express such a desire to Dumbledore in HBP. AS a ghost, he would have the power to command armies of living people with similar ideals. He would be able to share his deep knowledge of the Dark Arts with some prodigy who could then take his place as the evil mastermind of the wizarding world. Furthermore, he would have the ability to spend an eternity spreading evil, and he would have no need to hide any longer. There is no true way (that we know of) to punish a ghost, so I think Voldemoert's fear of death could open up a whole range of possibilities for his "afterlife."
Admittedly, this would not be good for Harry, though, if he survives.

Very good editorial; it was precise and to the point without meandering in the slightest.

My thought is that Voldemort, in his arrogance, truly believes he will not die, since he has 7 horcruxes. Admittedly, that's quite a lot of insurance against death.

Though if he did become a ghost, people would still fear him and I think it's possible that he could attract followers. Very interesting theory, I never considered the thought before. That's something rare these days, when every little detail seems to be analyzed to death.

Although coming back as a ghost would not fit well at all into the series, realistically this is quite possible. Again, this would make for a horrible ending and shouldn't happen, but why not explore it?

As a ghost, Voldemort could not be killed. Sure, petrified by a basilisk, but no death. This would fit in quite nicely with his fear of death. Being a ghost, Voldemort could:

1) Attract followers as HogsmeadeJosh said. He could still teach willing people the Dark Arts and be a leading force behind many wars to come.

2) Wait. Voldemort could wait for a devoted follower, one that would rise above the rest to research the attributes of ghosts and the possibilites of obtaining human form. We have not really seen many restrictions on the limits of magic, so this could be a real possibility.

Even in ghost form, Voldemort would still be a real problem.

I think it will hinge on what new information we get in Book 7. Jo did say that we would get the full answer as to why some witches and wizards become ghosts and others don't, and I have a feeling Voldemort will not meet the qualifications somehow. It would just be too easy for him.

1) Attract followers as HogsmeadeJosh said. He could still teach willing people the Dark Arts and be a leading force behind many wars to come.This assumes that Voldemort is interested in power for purposes other than immortality. However, we do not have much indication of that. Voldemort wants immortality; he wants power to safeguard that immortality. 2) Wait. Voldemort could wait for a devoted follower, one that would rise above the rest to research the attributes of ghosts and the possibilites of obtaining human form. We have not really seen many restrictions on the limits of magic, so this could be a real possibility. Rowling has said that there is no return from death, so this cannot be possible. Remember, the imprint of the soul is not the soul, and it is the soul that is the self.

I think it will hinge on what new information we get in Book 7. Jo did say that we would get the full answer as to why some witches and wizards become ghosts and others don't, and I have a feeling Voldemort will not meet the qualifications somehow. It would just be too easy for him.We got that in Order of the Phoenix. Remember, she said that prior to Order, and Nick told us everything important: only wizards afraid of death become ghosts. What more do we need to know? It simply is not relevant to the main plot.

Not a bad editorial. :) I had also thought this at one time. But I don't actually think this would happen. JKR has said the story will be all summed up and if LV becomes a ghost it leave it open for someone in the future to become his follower and take over for him...great idea, but she wants to be finished with the HP world.

What would be interesting/terrible is if HARRY was killed in the process of killing LV and became a ghost. Wouldn't THAT be a kicker!! Of course, I don't REALLY think that would happen. :lol: I'm just saying...it would make for an interesting end to the series wouldn't it? Well, it's something to think about! :relax:

On a side note I would LOVE for her to write about Dumbledore as a young man, and his defeat of Grindlwald (sp?).

What would be interesting/terrible is if HARRY was killed in the process of killing LV and became a ghost. Wouldn't THAT be a kicker!! Of course, I don't REALLY think that would happen. Harry would not become a ghost. One of the recurring lessons of the series is that good people do not fear death. Already by the end of Order, Harry seems to have taken that lesson to heart.

On a side note I would LOVE for her to write about Dumbledore as a young man, and his defeat of Grindlwald (sp?).The problem is that this probably would be all plot with no story. Also, it is quite possible that we will learn everything necessary about this from Dumbledore's memories: one hypothesis is that Grindelwald taught Voldemort the Horcrux spell, and the place where Voldemort learned this will be the hiding place for the Cup or for the unknown Horcrux.

@ Wimsy:

Buzzkill...I was only joking about Harry becoming a ghost! Sheesh!!! Can't people take a joke around here? (Although it would be intersesting!)

I still say it would be cool to have a book about DD. He's awesome!!! It could work if JKR worked her magic on it!

(Some people take things far to seriously)

You know, I've never seen such a short editorial containing the phrase "I spent a year thinking about this".

js1138- I had to chuckle at the idea of Voldyghost boring students with lectures on the dark arts.

savage4--I agree that Voldy's soul is too damaged. Drinking unicorn blood did some amount of damage in addition to making horcruxes. Seems like there ought to be a penalty for these things. Maybe someone who becomes a ghost after such crimes is limited to a jam jar or a closet. Just a thought.

Interesting and simple theory!

Ghosts have no powers other than speech

We see that the Bloody Baron is feared and he is not evil in its worst form. Voldemort would still have fearful followers...live wizards to command. As well as the utterly deluded yet loyal DE's like Bellatrix Lestrage who stayed by even when he was thought dead.

Oh and ghosts have the power to glide through solid objects!!

Voldemort has only 1/7 of a soul and can never be whole again: the soul fragment in the Diary was destroyed and I assume the one in the Ring (which injured Dumbledore's hand before the start of HBP) is gone as well. Can he be 1/7 of a ghost? I tend to think not.

Somehow having Voldemort become a ghost seems to be too good for him. He could end up like Myrtle, annoying. He could end up like the Bloody Baron, scary, or he could just become part of the everyday lives of those around him, like Binns.

I prefer that he is gone, totally, so that memories can heal and fears can subside. If Voldemort's greatest fear is death, then his greatest fear is what he deserves. (Sorry if that seems heartless).

When someone creates a Horcrux, they have committed the darkest of all magic- murder and breaking one's soul. With a broken soul, one does not have the chance to come back. The soul is too dimished to be able to come back. Especially when the soul inside Voldy's body is so small, 1/7 of its original size.

i think that may happen and harry can get rid of voldemort doing something with the veil. but what can a ghost do after all ? would voldemort like to wander around being totally useless ? i dont really think so. and i wouldnt wanna see a plot twist like that from jo...

it is a good thought but i think it is more like a forum theory than a mugglenet editorial.

You are right. Voldemort fears death, so even if Harry did manage to find all of the Horcruxes and kill Voldemort, Voldemort would choose to remain as a ghost. He is pretty much useless like that, but what would be the point in putting that into the series? I think Voldemort will not die for this reason. He CAN'T die. and he won't die.

I know that wizards who are afraid of death become ghosts. But what about Myrtle? In CoS when she was talking to Harry about how she died she says 'And then I came back again. I was determined to haunt Olive Hornby, you see' (CoS p299, US paperback). I think becoming a ghost is more complex than simply being afraid of death. Myrtle became a ghost because she had a miserable life; she was always being teased by her classmates and she wanted revenge. I don't know if she was really afraid of death, she just had a stronger desire to stay behind to get revenge on Olive.

um...yeah im starting to think hes not exactly going to be "killed". i mean, if they were just gonna kill him off, why would JKR bother going into detail about "fates worse than death". so maybe he doesnt actually "die", that way he cant come back as a ghost. maybe he gets his sould sucked out, or is destroyed in all ways including soul, or something. but then again, we will learn more about ghosts in the 7th book, so we can only assume what will happen here. at least we have some hints with other theories, this one is kind of wide open.:p

In away Voldy is already dead as his views and throughts have not changed from when he was 11 years old! He still could come back as a ghost but I do not think he would want it!
I have throught before he could live as a ghost at Hogwarts! How can you live as a ghost?
I think Harry's main mission for book seven is to help Voldy died!
How can Voldy have his soul sucked out!
He commands the Dementors and they will not turn on their maker and master. Bad thourghts make dementors! Voldy has a lot of bad throughts!
Voldy will die by the sword of Harry or by his own in shame!
Maybe Voldy is going to be completly removed from the world!

JK said there's more to the reason about why some people become ghosts while others don't and that we will find that out in book 7. I guess we'll know then.

"So the only question that remains is: Will we being seeing Voldemort after his second demise to Harry? "

I assume you mean "be" instead of "being". In answer to that, I really hope not. By the end of DH Voldermort will be vanquished and they'll all live happily ever after. That is what we're waiting for.

Harry will probably find a way of defeating Voldemort without killing him. I think that would be cool.

this is one of those questions that i wish had been asked more directly to Jo at some point. "if Voldermort was destroyed (or killed as it were) would he remain behind as a ghost?"

obviously because of his fear of death, and what we know about how ghosts become ghosts that it seems like a likely possibility. however, I also feel that if he were a ghost he would also assume considerable influence over humans again (although powerless) he would still be able to speak and perhaps to persuade wizards to his point of view.

having written this question out, now it seems rather silly, but I still feel it is a valid one to consider

When Voldemort was vanquished the first time, he became "less than the meanest ghost", to use his own words, and I do not believe that the destruction of the Horcruxes will allow him to become anything more than that if and when he is vanquished the second time.

In short, I doubt he's coming back as a ghost.

As for whether Harry will actually kill Voldemort or not, the prophecy has made it clear that either Harry will die by Voldemort's hand or vice versa. "Neither can live while the other survives." Therefore, "either must die at the hand of the other." If "the other" were a third party, the prophecy should have been "both must die..." or "each must die." As it is, "the other" is clearly Harry or Voldemort.

That was Dumbledore's guess, and Dumbledore's guesses are never very far off the mark. Besides, he didn't want Draco to be a killer, let alone Harry. If there were any hope of an alternative to Harry dying or becoming a killer, surely Dumbledore would have said as much.

Voldemort has split his soul so many times and the pieces are so scattered, some of which have already been destroyed (Riddle's Diary and the Black family Ring and possibly the Locket by RAB) so how can he get enough soul together to become a ghost? I would rather see what is left of him get "kissed" by a Dementer. Now THAT would be a fate worse than death!

Anna_bella- I guess what we should say is that he persists as a ghost.

Voldemort is wrong about so many thiings, it seems natural to also have him be wrong about death, at least from the perspective of it being the thing to fear most. Dumbledore emphasizes that there are things worse than death, and he also characterizes the Dementors Kiss that way. It could be that is where we are heading.

How could that happen when Voldemort controls the Dementors? One possibility is to play on a theme that has already thwarted him.

Dementors are said to be the most vile of creatures. But in the first Chapter of HBP, we learn that they are breeding. Who knows what is involved with that. In PoA, Harry describes the hand of a Dementor as like a corpse which has decomposed underwater. Near the end of HBP, Harry met some animate corpses who persist underwater. A possible connection?

Perhaps more importantly, who knows how immature Dementors behave, and what relationship their "parents" have with them. Suppose Dementor parents treat their progeny as many wild creatures do. If the immature Dementors get in Voldemort's way, he won't hesitate to destroy them, if he can. How would their parents react? (We might see a forshadowing if Voldemort moves against Draco.)

What defenses would Voldemort have against Dementors? Would he be capable of casting a Patronus? Would he be dependent upon Harry to save him from the Dementors? Could Harry use his Patronus to drive the Dementors to surrounding a defenseless Voldemort?

JKR has offered so many truly clever ideas that it seems there are many ways for Voldemort being vanquished to be tied into earlier parts of the story. But perhaps the most ironic would be if he lost because he once again failed to appreciate the potential of a mother's love for her child.

If there's any truth to Dumbledore's statement that, "there are worse things than death", then for Voldemort, becoming a ghost would fit that bill.

This editorial was short and sweet, and managed to bring up a good point. Thank you, and good job. However, I cannot agree with the conclusion.

Why is death LV's greatest fear? Our editorial writer, Ian, quotes the JKR reference in which this question is answered, albeit for a slightly different purpose. LV fears death because death is the ultimate state of weakness. His abhorrence of weakness, in my opinion, will lead LV in the end not to choose to leave an imprint of himself and remain as a ghost.

Why is this?
1. I believe it is fair to assume that many wizards and witches of considerable intelligence and/or close connection with living wizards and witches with considerable intelligence have become ghosts. (e.g., all of the Hogwarts ghosts' continued presence around Hogwarts professors, headmasters/mistresses, and till late, the great Albus Dumbledore).
2. It is also fair to assume that most ghosts desire to be alive once more, if it was at all possible and if only in order to die 'properly.' (Note wish of ghosts at Sir Nicholas' Death Day Party to experience corporeal sensations once more [CoS].)
3. All of these ghosts are still ghosts. There is no record shown to us of ghosts ceasing to exist or reverting to living form. (As JKR has said in more than one interview, though I do not remember which ones, death is final.)
4. Ergo, There is no way to reverse the imprinting process, either forward towards 'full death,' so to speak, or backwards to reincarnation.
...and...
5. Dumbledore stresses in HBP repeatedly that LV/Tom Riddle never had true friends, nor did he ever desire one.
6. LV is selfish and megalomaniacal. He wants to have the ultimate power and glory as the 'Master of the Dark Arts' and the 'Immortal Wizard,' and he does not want to see anyone else succeed where he failed.
6. Thus, I believe it fair to assume that LV is extremely unlikely to desire to leave an imprint of hisself in order to guide another along his path, which would seem the only reason for who obsessed with power to choose an existence of utter powerlessness.

Problematic points of my argument:
1. There might be spells that work specifically on ghosts. For example, could the MoM have used some charm to prevent Moaning Myrtle from haunting Olive Hornby had she not ceased when commanded? It is likely according to the logic JKR employs in developing the magical world. Thus, it is theoretically possible that some yet-to-be-invented spell can restore a ghost, or at least give a ghost some greater corporeal presence.
2. It is known that some potions, at least, work on ghosts. It is very strongly implied that Sir Nicholas was restored by Mandrake potion at the end of CoS. If one powerful potion caused a change in a ghost's substance, then others theoretically could. This is assuming, also, that the Medusan stare of the basilisk is not an extreme exception to the rule of ghostly existence and effectation. JKR does, however, tend to shy away from such particular exceptions to the normal laws and processes of the magical world in the novels, but still, my argument is not full-proof.
However, I still do think LV would choose to leave an imprint of hisself because even as "Vapormort," he still had some power, i.e., that of possession. As a ghost, he would have no power and no reasonable hope that he would ever regain power/corporeality.

As Ojoslocos rightfully quotes, there are things worse than death. Existing powerless (in ways meaningful to LV) for eternity, for LV is what is worse.

I agree with those who said that by making horcruxes Voldemort had probably lost the possibility to come back as a ghost. I can’t prove it definitively but we do have reasons to think so (and may get more in DH).

First, a ghost is an imprint of a soul.
Something has to have some consistency, some strength, to live an imprint. The fact only witches and wizards are able to do it also implies the necessity of some power. And in HBP, Dumbledore stresses “the incomparable power of a soul that is untarnished and whole” (HBP, Horcruxes), so it implies that a tarnished and incomplete soul has less power, and it would seem logical that a soul had to be not too much damaged to be able to leave an imprint.
What’s more Dumbledore also stresses Voldemort’s inability to understand there are things worse than death. And we know that among those things are having one’s soul sucked and destroyed by a dementor and (from everyone’s but Voldemort’s opinion) existing as Vaportmort did (as less than a ghost). Those instances both imply having one’s soul gravely damaged. Maybe having one’s soul damaged is worse than death also because, contrary to a normal death, it prevent the person from having the choice to leave an imprint of themselves behind in the world of the living?
I for one think it would be nicely ironical that at the moment of dying, Voldemort would suddenly realise that all his effort to become immortal had in fact lost him the only possibility he would have had to remain on earth after his death. It would be poetic justice and a nice punishment, worse than mere death in itself.

That’s why I don’t think Voldemort will have a chance to come back as a ghost and annoy Harry ever after.
Though, admittedly, it would be really amusing to read about him getting a refusal letter from the Headless Hunt ! ;) :p

Interesting thought....., but I would have to say that I think Voldy's return as a ghost would be most dangerous.

1)He would now have open access to influence impressionable minds....
Remember after Voldemort is gone.... he will still have some supporters out there...
still alive and well.
2)Should Voldermort become one of the ghosts that reside with-in Hogwarts.... he
would have a most alarming and un-settling influence on students like Draco Malfoy.
Possibly spurring the rise of a new and more horrible Dark Wizard. Remember
Voldemort knows how to make Horcruxes... if he were to become a ghost... what
would stop him from teaching someone else? Nothing... Voldrmort would find an
impressionable student... one (like Snape) who hates muggles and who has been
left completely friendless.... Voldemort would teach him what he knows... he would
be-friend him and incourage him to be vindictive and evil. He would show him what
power is... and in-evitably control him.
No I don't think that J.K.R has planned to have Voldemort come back as a ghost. I do not believe that she wants to indicate that evil can not be over-come.... no on the contrary... I think that she wants to indicate that evil can in fact be over-come and that good can triumph over evil.....

We certainly don't want to see Voldemort doing a Professor Binns and teaching at Hogwarts as a ghost or vying to be th Slytherin Ghost against the Bloody Baron (why is he so bloody I wonder?) - -that would have to be some contest - it couldn't be a fight to the death though.....

I think we might rule becoming a ghost out as his vanquishment and hope that for some reason he upsets at lest one Dementor for some reason who then sucks out the remaining piece of soul from his body (after Harry has destroyed all the others of course) and that's how it comes about that Harry vanquishes Voldemort.

However that is too simplistic and an unlikely ending and Im sure Jo has some other completely unexpected ending in store for us.

Nice theory. Certainly would be ... interesting, but even if he did, I don't think he'd be able to find himself a body ("No spell can bring back the dead"). In fact, that would be a kind of punishment for him really, existing without being able to do magic ... like a muggle. However, a ghostly form of Voldemort would be good enough for his most devoted followers and he, Voldemort, would be able to 'live' through them. Giving them orders as he does now and so on. Only thing he won't be able to do is kill people himself, which, i suppose, would demise his fear somewhat.

Also, from what we know about ghosts so far (with SOME exceptions, but we're not told about them as much), people who have become ghosts have had their lives ended prematurely and brutally. Sir Nick was axed to death with a blunt axe. The Baron has silver blood stains on his clothes and we're not told about the fair lady (i think that's what she's called, the Ravenclaw ghost) and the Fat Friar. So unless Harry kills Voldemort with a fork from the great hall (that would be kinda cool), I really don't believe we'll be seeing Voldy return, if indeed, he does die at the end (or middle, or beginning) of Book seven.

I must admit I laughed when I thought of harry attacking Voldemort with a knife and fork - sorry you said fork. the fair lady was actually the Grey Lady I think and I believe there are a few ghosts around in the UK known as the Grey Lady and wasn't Friar Tuck of Robin Hood fame fat?

Iteresting isn't it how some myths and legends have been woven into the story. Voldemort could be likened to the Sheriff of Nottingham in a way or King John - but I believe he wasn't quite as bad as he was made out to be in the stories.

Now back to the getting rid of Voldemort story..... perhaps divine retribution would be having him reduced to earning his living as a muggle and unable by some magical means communicate with any witch or wizard in any way but have to do some job to survive that nobody else ever wants to do - whatever that may be......

That way he will be gone from the wizarding world but stuck in the muggling world as a nobody who no one wants to associate with. For him as a muggle-hater that would be a punishment worse than death.

It Makes sense.Bellatrix would still listen to him anyway.

It Makes sense.Bellatrix would still listen to him anyway.

Should Voldermort become one of the ghosts that reside with-in Hogwarts.... he would have a most alarming and un-settling influence on students like Draco Malfoy. Possibly spurring the rise of a new and more horrible Dark Wizard.

Respectfully, you both forget that Voldemort is not interested in anything besides himself and his own acquisition of power. He is not interested in pushing the bounds of (Dark) Magic for the academic enjoyment, or to prove to himself or anyone else just how clever he is. No, he pushes the boundaries of magic for his own selfish purposes. If the greatest Dark Wizard of all time won't be an immortal LV, then he would prefer that no mortal would approach the point he attained.

I think Bellatrix will be one who doesn't survive and if some power of the Ministry of magic prevented Voldemort from communicating with any witches or wizards ever then dying as a very lonely muggle would be a good punishment.

Wow excellent editorial. I definitey agree that Voldemort would choose to come back as a ghost if he truely dies. That little bit of soul left in him could go through the veil but Voldemort would choose the path to be as close to immortality as he could possibly be in death, that path would be to become a ghost, as you said. The best thing is that Voldemort could never really harm anyone again. Ghosts can't eat,slepp, touch any living thing and I really doubt that the Death Eaters would rally around Voldemort if he came back as a ghost. So yeah Voldemort as a ghost, brilliant!

Voldemort would choose to come back as a ghost if he truely dies.

Would he though? From what Nearly headless Nick has said over the past 6 books leads me to believe that being a ghost is not the best experience. Would Voldemort really choose a path which would not enable him to, as you say, eat, drink, (sleep maybe as their eyelids are transparent), and most important of all, do MAGIC. As a ghost, he MAY have some control over his 'faithful' death eaters, but eventually, his fear will be eliminated from the hearts and minds of the wizards when they realise that he, as a ghost, can't so much as kill them as creep up behind them and try to scare them.

(The next bit contains graphic elements, please don't read if the monster under your bed scares you :) )

Image if Hitler had not died, and through some remarkable scientific breakthrough, his head, and only his head had been saved, so that he may give commands, but nothing more. Would people still be afraid of him or ... err. 'it' i suppose or would vigilanties (not sure that's how you spell it) raise quicker and more vastly because they realise he can not harm them like he used to?

i dont see how he can come back!? in HBP when asking harry what the difference between a ghost and an infuri is snape describes a ghost as an imprint of a departed soul upon the world. surely when voldemort dies he will only be 1/7 of a soul, there wont be a lot left to imprint!!!

4 words:

YAY! I'M NOT ALONE! :D

Seriously though, this has been my belief on Voldemort's end for a very long time. Long before book 6 even.

Nearly Headless Nick, as much as we love him, describes being a ghost as something done by choice. Voldemort appears to be spooked enough by the concept of death that I'm pretty sure he'd do it. The concept of separation from whatever is beyond life is also eerily similar to modern views of Hell.

The "imprint" left behind as a ghost is permanently separated from whatever lies beyond. Furthermore, they are unable to partake of any creature comforts. But they're alive....sorta.

It would be awfully fitting for Voldemort, who is afraid of death more than anything else, to become a ghost when he dies. He would live a half-existance, if even that much, most likely haunting Hogwarts where kids will flick spitwads at him for all eternity.

However wouldn't he want to be the Slytherin House ghost and I think the Bloody Baron would have something to say about that. No I think Riddlemort wouldn't want become a secondary ghost so will spit the dummy and move on kicking and screaming all the way....

I think his soul is too fractured and ruined for him to even become a ghost. By the time Harry destroys all the Horcruxes, there won't be much of Voldy to return, ghost or not.

He might be allowed to be the Bloody Baron's assistant :)

Poor Peeves if that happens as he's already terrified of the Bloody Baron - well he's the only one who can control Peeves - but I can't for the life of me imagine Voldemort playing second fiddle to anyone. I think he will be gone as he's soul is too fragmented to survive (I hope).

I don't think he will return as a ghost. Although he definitely fears death, he's not stupid. He probably knows being a ghost is nothing like actually being alive. In fact, he has been a ghostlike being for years himself, and I doubt he would like the idea of being trapped in this form eternally.

I doubt it. That would be anticlimactic and ignore the fact that Voldemort has established multiple Horcruxes. It seems most likely that he will suffer total oblivion in the end.

Woohoo! Look out, Bloody Baron! You've got competition! :lol:


Moaning Myrtle was only a teen muggle-born student who couldn’t possibly know how to leave such an imprint. Or, maybe people leave this “imprint” without knowing that they do it

Or maybe they get to decide on the doorstep on the other side whether to become a ghost or completely embrace death. We don't really know when they decide or how it is accomplished--yet.

I don't really think Voldemort will return as a ghost because it wouldn't fit in with the end of the story, as some of you have already said. It's an interesting speculation though and thought-provoking editorial.

Phil Stone: Dumbledore emphasizes that there are things worse than death, and he also characterizes the Dementors Kiss that way.

Maybe Dumbledore says this about the Dementor's Kiss too, but I think it was actually Lupin who said the Kiss is worse than being killed...(p. 247 POA). He also says your body can continue to exist without your soul--but Barty Crouch was killed by the Dementor's Kiss in GOF. hmmm I'll have to look into that more... RTA: Read the end of GOF again and nobody ever actually says that Crouch is dead. When he hears about the Kiss, Harry thinks Crouch is "worse than dead" and Dumbledore says the dementor "destroyed" him. Later he sends Madame Pomphrey down to Moody's office where Crouch was to look after Winky but doesn't say anything about Barty and his soulless body (whether alive or dead) is never mentioned again. I wonder what happened to him/it?

I also wonder what if any significance Voldemort drinking unicorn blood will have in his overthrow and any possibilty of redemption for him...So many question...can JKR really answer all of them in the last book?

I think one of things Dumbledore was referring to as being worse than death was being what Voldemort already is now: to commit so much evil (such as soul-splitting murder) to avoid death is worse than being dead.

The Bloody Baron seems to be relatively harmless as a ghost but is bloody and I would like to know why. Perhaps he was an evil git in his time also and is after all the Slytherin ghost. Who's to say that Voldemort won't become an ineffectual ghost as the Bloody Baron seems to be (remember only Peeves seems afraid of him when he is around but still plays up when he isn't). I laughed when someone suggested that he would become the DADA teacher forever and bore people into losing interest in the Dark Arts as Professor Binns bores those in his History of Magic classes. It would be ironic to have Voldemort teaching DADA a a ghost once dead as he s wanted the position while alive. However I'd prefer to have his soul sucked out by a Dementor and be in effect a Zombie-like being. That would be something worse than death I suppose as he would be powerless to do any evil - or anything for that matter.

This brings up a very interesting point--The Bloody Baron. As JKR has already informed us, the dark wizard Grindelwald will come into play somehow. What if he turned into the Bloody Baron after Dumbledore defeated him?

Baron Grindelwald perhaps? However would Albus have let him become a ghost at Hogwarts? Unless of course if he had no say as to where the ghosts choose to haunt.

Hmm. This is a subject that has interested me for a long time after reading OotP. The whole subject of death, ghosts and how it all happens is such a big and interesting mystery it intrigues me greatly.

Your editorial subject was great, the general idea of Voldemort returning as a ghost is an interesting plot twist I must say. The one thing I have to critisise is that I feel you could have extended on the subject so much more! This topic has a few references throughout the series so far, but you only referred to one or two.

Other than that, it was great! :) I'd love to be able to write my own one on a similar subject, but I haven't the time lately loll

well, "Bloody Baron" makes me think of the "Red Baron", a famous german aviator in the 1910's. Maybe his true name was (as we are not told) Frantz Heinrich von Rrrrrudkovenheim baron of Grindelwald :) There might be something about him being in Hogwarts, under Dumbledore's nose. Ghost have to be usefull in the 7th book, in Harry goes into the underworld.

How can Voldemort become a ghost? He split his soul into seven pieces.

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