The Room of Requirement One Last Time

This is to discuss The Room of Requirement One Last Time (http://www.mugglenet.com/editorials/editorials/edit-taylors01.shtml) by Shelly Taylor.

To try and interpret JKR's dreams as clues to the book may be misleading. Also, the idea that a horcrux is hidden in Hogwarts may be off the mark. There was never a known time when Voldemort had leave to wander the sacred halls of learning once he had left the identity of Tom Riddle behind. The planting of the diary was a desperate chance taken by Mr. Malfoy, who incidentally did not know what he was doing. So I would have to think that JKR's dream had more to do with her reality and not Harry Potter's.

However the idea that a horcrux is hidden in Hogwarts may be off the mark. There was never a known time when Voldemort had leave to wander the sacred halls of learning.

Apart from the seven years he was a student there -- where he had a number of years to discover many secret places, including the Room of Requirement. We know for a fact that Voldemort asked about Horcruxes, framed Morfin for the Riddles' murders and wore Slytherins' Ring at the age of 16, meaning that if he knew how to make Horcruxes by then (which is likely that he did) he had about a year to hine them (possibly in places he'd already discovered in his earlier school career).

I had always guessed that Riddle made the first horcrux with the murder of his father and grandparents and the ring was already one when he spoke to Slughorn in that memory. I was under the impression that his curiosity was more about making multiple horcuxes than finding out from Slughorn how to make the first one. But I think somewhere in the books, Dumbledore says something to contradict that idea, so I guess I'm wrong (yet again.) Nevertheless I agree with wandaXmaximof that Tom Riddle could have hidden a horcux at Hogwarts while still a student.

I don't think Voldemort could've hidden a horcrux in the Room of Requirement as Harry saw it when hiding his Potions book. It's not well protected at all. All a student as to do is think that they need a place to hide something, and they're in the room. Given, there are many other things in the room, but it is too much to hope that no one is going to pick up a golden cup or some other shiny object (since the known horcruxes seem to all be fancy objects).

If LV had a chance to hide a horcrux in Hogwarts, that would've had to have been his first horcrux. Voldemort is too scared of death to put his first, and at that point, only horcrux in a place that was not well protected.

And if he had protected it with dark magic, Dumbledore would most likely have found it.

It's a good thought, but I don't see it happening.

It is quite probable that JKR's answer about her dream was indeed a clue. Tom Riddle would have known, definitely, about this room and a good hiding place was what he needed. Hiding the first three Horcruxes with Lucius Malfoy, at the Gaunt hovel, and in the cave and having Harry respond to DD that the others could be anywhere in the world may have been red herrings. The quotes in this editorial pinpoint what LV had to do with his Horcruxes: hide them and protect them. And, just as Harry marked where he hid his Potions book, LV probably marked where he hid his Horcruxes. They are probably hidden in plain sight. I think it is very probable that most, if not all the remaining Horcruxes are hidden at Hogwarts, in the Room of Requirement. How did he gain access to it? DD told Harry he thought the last Horcrux had been made with the death of the Muggle, Frank Bryce and that it was Nagini. But, he also acknowledges that he can make huge mistakes and I believe this is one. Either that or he was deliberately not telling Harry the truth at that time. Before Bryce, the last murder committed with LV's wand was Lily's. I think it's possible that before he lost his body and his normal appearance, perhaps on the occasions he went to Dippet and DD to ask for a teaching job, LV had the opportunity to hide his Horcruxes. In my mind, he would only have had to hide two since I believe Harry is the sixth.

[QUOTE=dweaselqueen;4470895](since the known horcruxes seem to all be fancy objects).QUOTE]

I'd have to disagree with this. The diary was anything but fancy:

"A small, thin book lay there. It had a shabby black cover..."
"The little book lay on the floor, nondescript and soggy."
(CoS, American hardback, pgs. 230-231)

I had always wondered if JKR was giving us clues by telling us about the dream. This editorial certainly makes a valid point that it's a possibility.

Apart from the seven years he was a student there -- where he had a number of years to discover many secret places, including the Room of Requirement. We know for a fact that Voldemort asked about Horcruxes, framed Morfin for the Riddles' murders and wore Slytherins' Ring at the age of 16, meaning that if he knew how to make Horcruxes by then (which is likely that he did) he had about a year to hine them (possibly in places he'd already discovered in his earlier school career).

this is generally a good catch but during his seven years at hogwarts did he have a significant item in which to place the soul piece? - we know that he had the diary, and the ring prior to leaving hogwarts, but do you think he could have found something else? I do think that V left a horcrux in the RoR, though for me it was the bloody ax (perhaps the one used the one used to almost sever Nearly Headless Nick's head) of course that would mean that he had to have hidden it prior to leaving hogwartsas an ax would be difficult to hide while walking around hogwarts. He didn't learn about the cup or the locket until he left hogwarts, and presumably that did not occur prior to his last meeting with dippet which appears to have occurred prior to his working for Borgin and Berks.

Certain passages have always set my senses on edge and for me it is the time 39 years prior when V comes back to ask DD for the DADA job is one of them. DD's office is on the 7th floor as is the RoR, it is not unlikely that V could have made a slight detour to drop off a special item, that is if the item was small enough to fit in his pocket ( the locket perhaps). I know we have all been presuming that the cave housed the locket b/c harry found a locket there but it could have been luck on the part of RAB that a locket is one of the horcruxes.

I don't think Voldemort could've hidden a horcrux in the Room of Requirement as Harry saw it when hiding his Potions book. It's not well protected at all. All a student as to do is think that they need a place to hide something, and they're in the room. Given, there are many other things in the room, but it is too much to hope that no one is going to pick up a golden cup or some other shiny object (since the known horcruxes seem to all be fancy objects).



But doesn't the Room of Requirement look different to the specific need? ie/ full of chamber pots for Dumbledore, full of things needed for the DA. So if Voldemort hid a horcrux in the room of requirement nobody would see it unless they were specifically asking to find Voldemorts horcrux (or some combination of those thoughts)

I definitely think we will see the RoR storage room (for lack of a better term) in book 7. I think it's a very good point and is quite possible. Though I don't personally believe JKR's dream was a hint, as I'm sure she's very careful about giving big hints away, it is an intereting thought.

The thing we forget is this; Dumbledore could not have watched over Tom Riddle during his entire 7 years at Hogwarts. We haven't seen all the relevant memories of Tom Riddle's past yet; just a few fragments. There may very well be another important item he acquired that is hidden in Hogwarts. And I'm sure this has been theorized 1000 times, but what about his 'service to the school' award? And what about Myrtle? Would she know about anything leading to a horcrux?

hogsmeadejosh

one problem with the award - there are apparently no protections surrounding it considering how many time Ron had to clean and reclean it appears that anyone could touch it without suffering any ill effects. As for Myrtle- I would have thought that DD would have questioned her - he I'm sure knew that she was haunting the bathroom and that she was in school with riddle. Also didn't the diary tom say that myrtle was a muggleborn - I rather doubt that she would know anything , at least first hand , about riddle. I would think that DD would have more likely asked the bloody baron if he was going to ask a ghost- but then he might not have been at hogwarts at the time

The idea that Voldemort hid one of his horcruxes at Hogwarts is an old and generally accepted theory. The Room of Requirement is a possible place for a Horcrux to be hidden but I think a more likely location is the Chamber of Secrets. After all, only a parseltongue can open it and, apart from Voldemort himself the only Known parseltongue is Harry. When Voldemort made his horcruxes Harry had not been born and all the other Gaunts were dead. The Chamber of Secrets would have been the most secure place possible and would have been the most logical place available for such a valuable item.

The idea that Voldemort hid one of his horcruxes at Hogwarts is an old and generally accepted theory. The Room of Requirement is a possible place for a Horcrux to be hidden but I think a more likely location is the Chamber of Secrets. After all, only a parseltongue can open it and, apart from Voldemort himself the only Known parseltongue is Harry. When Voldemort made his horcruxes Harry had not been born and all the other Gaunts were dead. The Chamber of Secrets would have been the most secure place possible and would have been the most logical place available for such a valuable item.

Yes. And it had a basilisk guarding it. It could also be the hiding spot for Slytherin's valuables, as well. And it would explain why Voldemort was so angry at Lucius Malfoy. Not only did he allow one of his horcruxes to be destroyed, but now Harry is aware of a secret place that Voldemort valued. The Chamber would be a great place to stash any treasures Voldemort had.

Plainlypotter - DD would have known about Myrtle because DD was at Hogwarts when she was killed by Riddle as a teacher. And I am sure he knew everything she could remember about her death etc because she loves talking about her death (one odd ghost..) Being muggleborn shouldn't really affect her knowledge about Riddle because no-one apart from DD knew anything about Riddle before he came to the school. And a horcrux only needs to be protected if anyone knows or can fugure out that it is a horcurx. For instance, if the locket in 12 Grimmauld Pl is a horcurx, no-one was hurt by touching it. But I doubt that the award would be a horcrux - not significant enough, unlike the diary, which showed his power and ancestry.

Bribe raises a good point about the Chamber of Secrets being the safest place to hide a Horcrux since only a Parseltongue would be able to get in. But, if you count the times LV would have actually had acess to Hogwarts after leaving the school, there were very few-I think not more than the two times he asked the headmaster for a teaching position. And, while at Hogwarts, if he had an appointment wouldn't he be expected at a certain time? Even after the meetings, I think DD would have watched him and where he went thereby limiting his access to parts of the school. What made me write off the Chamber of Secrets was its location in the "bowels" of the school whereas the Room of Requirement couldn't have been far from DD's office (isn't it described as being on the seventh floor? And isn't DD's office up there, too?)we know from DD that it turned into a room filled with chamber pots when he had need of it in the middle of the night. It had to be near his office. It was a room where LV could have made a quick stop on his way to his appointments somewhere near the headmasters' office.

sheppc01

The difference between the locket in grimwald place and the award is that ( assuming that the locket is the one that was in the cave) - it was originally protected by many spells, and the fact that RAB managed to defeat the protections only means that the protections are not part of the horcrux itself but rather the horcrux's surroundings. Once the locket was no longer in the cave there were no protections. Therefore the award would have to have been originally protected by spells and there is no information to corroborate that. It would seem that if there was history concerning the award other than that it was given for particular services to the school we have not as yet been privy to it.

My only point about myrtle is that since she was muggleborn, it is unlikely considering Riddle's feeling toward muggles that he would have had any direct dealings with her beyond the night she was killed so it wouldn't be likely that DD would have questioned her since she would likely have no information concerning riddle. Or if DD did question her it is likely her information was too insignificant to store as a memory. If you remember when harry asked her who was talking in the bathroom, she said it was a boy but she didn't know which boy. I would think if she had had much contact with riddle she would have remembered his voice. of course this could be that he was speaking in parseltongue so perhaps that might have affected her ability to recognize the voice.

Certainly the above description of the Room reminds me of the final scene of Raiders of the Lost Ark, where the Ark is stored with so many other presumably important/secret items in crates, that it is effectively lost once again.

But I dont see Voldemort hiding a horcrux in such a place. It doesn't accord with his self image of importance. That doesn't mean he wouldn't use the Room, but not the same version of it as Draco and Harry used. Voldemort might say he needed to hide something of great importance and significance. If the Room offered him the version Harry and Draco used, I think he would look elsewhere, or try to reformulate his request.

As for the Chamber of Secrets, has anyone wondered if it wasn't "Chamber of Secrets" rather than "The Secret Chamber" for a reason beyond which sounded better?

The Room of Requirement (ROR) appears to turn into any sort of room you require - remember Dumbledore's Army used it for practice and I'm pretty sure it wouldn't have been full of stuff then because there would have been no room for the students to practice their patronuses in if it was full of stuff. This means Tom Riddle or Voldemort (whichever one he was then) could have summoned up a completely different room to those we have seen so far and Harry and co will have to second guess which room to summon up that matches the Riddle/Voldemort room. So it is possible he used the ROR to hide a horcrux(es) since his vanity would prevent him from thinking that others could summon up the same room. Failing that perhaps an alternative way intio the Chamber of Secrets could be found in such a room since the way from the girls bathroom has nw been blocked off and I'm sure there must be several passages into the Chamber. Either way I think a visit to the room would be quite beneficial to Harry and co.

Well, it's a theory, I'll give you that. It'd be a shame to have such an awesome place in Hogwarts shown to us adn then never revisit it again. However, I think taking Jo's dream as a hint may be a bit too much. As an author, she spends a lot of time with her characters, arranging lines and so on. Is it so far fetched to think she'd have a dream along those lines? I used to have dreams about playing tetris when I was 8 :lol:

I like to think that Snape's potions book will have to be re-found at some point, as Jo made a real point of reminding us how Harry marked it for later reference.

On the subject, Tom's diary/horcrux was his high-school diary was it not? So, where did he hide is diary? Under his mattress? :snicker: maybe not jah. COS maybe, if he was desperate. But yeah, he had at least one Horcrux within Hogwarts while he was there, so having one or two dotted in there isn't really so crazy I guess.

I think this is a very good hypothesis. Thank you.

What it all turns on, however, is whether or not LV when he returned to Hogwarts to ask for a position have had time to roam the castle? I don't think so, because I am sure Dumbledore would not have allowed it. Besides, all non-professor adults we've witnessed inside the castle who are high-ranking Ministry officials, 'on duty' Order of the Phoenix members, or the O.W.L./N.E.W.T. testers are always 'chaperoned' by a staff or faculty member. And even then, the former and the latter were usually accompanied by some Hogwarts staff because of the offficial nature of their visit.

However, if I am wrong about this, those who say that the room Harry hid the HBP's potions textbook in is likely not to be where LV hid a Horcrux probably are correct. (Besides, while hiding a Horcrux in "plain sight" within a cavernous hall of junk would be effective, that just doesn't fit with LV's style. He prefers magical concealment.) Nevertheless, this doesn't discount the Room of Requirement in another appearance being a resting place for a Horcrux.

Of course, the question is, why didn't LV just use the Chamber of Secrets? I think he had a pretty good idea that a.) nobody else knew where it was and b.) he was probably the last Parseltongue (in Britain at least) left alive. Having a fragment of his soul resting in the Chamber of Secrets with Slytherin's great monster would have even more underscored LV's connection with his ancestor and the school.

I believed that Voldy created his horcruxes after hogwarts. So how can he hide them in hogwarts. Dumbledore never let him in.

Nice idea, I wondered about JKR's dream, and I also made a vague connection between the UK Children's Bookcover and the room of requirement, though I didn't link the dream and the RoR.

I believed that Voldy created his horcruxes after hogwarts. So how can he hide them in hogwarts. Dumbledore never let him in.

What about his trip to hogwarts to visit dumbledore and ask for a teaching job? He could have popped into the RoR before or after the meeting, and being the world's best legilimens, he could hide the fact from Dumbledore.

And he didn't make all of the Horcruxes after Hogwarts: the ring was his first one, and he made that after killing the muggle side of his family, when he was 16; he made the diary when he was 16, too, though that might not have been a horcrux straight away.

But doesn't the Room of Requirement look different to the specific need? ie/ full of chamber pots for Dumbledore, full of things needed for the DA. So if Voldemort hid a horcrux in the room of requirement nobody would see it unless they were specifically asking to find Voldemorts horcrux (or some combination of those thoughts)

That is precisely what I meant. The editorial suggests the horcrux could be in the same room that Harry hid the potions book in. If Voldemort were to hide the horcrux, it would be in a room where you had to more specific about what you wanted to find, not in the room as Harry saw it that day because it's too easily accessible.

I'd have to disagree with this. The diary was anything but fancy:

"A small, thin book lay there. It had a shabby black cover..."
"The little book lay on the floor, nondescript and soggy."
(CoS, American hardback, pgs. 230-231)

I had always wondered if JKR was giving us clues by telling us about the dream. This editorial certainly makes a valid point that it's a possibility.

I meant the remaining horcruxes. THe locket, the cup, and whatever is Ravenclaw/Gryffindor's are all fancy. I think we would all agree that if an item is hidden in the Room of REquirement it has to be one of the these. The diary doesn't count because it has already been destroyed, as does the ring. The horcruxes that could possibly be there are all fancy objects (although we don't know for sure about Ravelnclaw/Gryffindor's but it would certainly make sense if it was another golden, gilded object).

And as far as we know, the only objects Riddle had with while still at Hogwarts were the ring and the diary, both of which have since been destroyed. The cup and the locket seem to have been obtained after Voldemort left Hogwarts, so how could he have hidden them there? It just doesn't add up.

I'm more inclined to think that the Chamberof of Secrets holds one of the Horcruxes. If Sirius managed to slink into Hogwarts as a dog, perhaps Voldemort or Nagini might have slipped in as a snake, opened the chamber and hidden the horcrux there - the large statue of Slitherine might be a good place to start the search from.

With so few people being able to get in and having a basalisk as sentry, putting part of his soul into the bowels of an image of Slytherin inside a secret chamber in the bosom of such a magical place as Hogwarths might have seemed like a good idea: a very fitting grand and 'hallowed' place to rest part of his soul. I've always thought that we will be back to the chamber of secrets, mostly because it is called the Chamber of Secrets - in the plural - and we have only seen one secret so far.

Having said that, I also think that the Room of Requirement will also feature again in book 7 but it would probably be to get that potions book back - perhaps to find some antidote or some powerful spell that Snape had invented or something along those lines.

The Room of Requirement responded in the same way to Draco's need to hide the vanishing cabinet and to Harry's need to hide the Prince's book, and Voldemort could not have known about this at the time. I think Voldemort may well have hidden a Horcrux in the Room of Requirement, and it is probably somewhere in that rubbish, along with the vanishing cabinet and the Prince's book.

And besides, Voldemort does have a tendency to forget mundane details. One obvious example of this was his diary-self, who forgot that phoenix tears had healing powers. It is quite possible that he could have created a Horcrux as a student (since he was already studying horcruxes and committing murder by the age of 16) and hidden it in the Room of Requirement, not knowing or not caring that anybody who needed to hide something would enter the same room where it was hidden.

Good idea! But Harry has armour on the cover, not old potions and fanged frisbees. We'll just have to wait until July 21st to find out!

And he didn't make all of the Horcruxes after Hogwarts: the ring was his first one, and he made that after killing the muggle side of his family, when he was 16; he made the diary when he was 16, too, though that might not have been a horcrux straight away.

The diary was in fact made when he was 16, but not necesarily the ring. If it is possible to wait some time, then he could have made his ring horcrux at any time. Seeing as how once the soul is torn, it is torn, I would tend to think that the ring was not yet a horcrux when Tom spoke to Slughorn. But I guess that's not what this discussion is about, oops.

Well, this is a very good idea, but I thought the RoR would come into play in a different way:
There were thousands and thousands of books, no doubt banned or graffitied or stolen.
The word banned sticks out to me... I think that if theses books are indeed banned, then maybe the subject of horcruxes might be mentioned in one of them. We also assume that Harry will go back to retrieve his Potions book. I didn't link the RoR and that passage in the book, good catch, or maybe I'm just slow, lol.

Although I don't know if Voldemort hid a Horcrux there or not, I've thought for a while that the giant, cathedral-like room had some significance. A Horcrux may be possible, actually, in my opinion. Voldemort DID visit Hogwarts that time to try and get the DADA post; is it possible that he also planted a Horcrux there at the time? Or maybe the room holds something useful to Harry... after all, there must be hundreds if not thousands of deserted objects.

ETA: And now I see that people have discussed this already. Well, I second their opinions. Carry on. :)

Some of you did get my point, but to be clear, the "rubbish plile" that HArry and Draco used to hide things would not be a suitable place for Voldemort to hide a piece of his soul. If he asked for a place to hide something and was shown a rubbish heap, he would look elsewhere, or reformulate his request.

Harry has shown it is very difficult to second guess someone else's request. Voldemort would surely try to make it difficult to find. If he did find the rubbish heap, that would only convince him that there is too easy access to that room, where so many had been before him.

My point about the Chamber of Secrets was two-fold. First it would be, as others have suggested, in Voldemort's mind, an entirely appropriate place to hide a piece of his soul. That would be a good reason for Harry to want to search it. But the plural of the title is ancient. What if while searching for a secret of Voldemort, Harry finds a secret of Slytherin himself? Such a thing could turn out to be what he needs to understand to defeat Voldemort.

I agree that the Room of Requirement has got to be looked at more closely for we know that Voldermort like to hide things taken from other people and how did he ever did he find out about the chamber and Horcrux spell unless he had access to hiden books. Those books in the Room, sacks of books all hidden away out of sight our of mind. forgoten baned books. Where would they be stashed hidden and forgoten about but in the room of requirement.
What else did Voldermort find in the room Something of Ravencraw's knowing it is there but not yet horcrux? Knowing he couldn't take a treasure or treasures out as a poor student but as a teacher and knowing it is still hidden in the room he could. I guess the question is did he hide or find other things within the room?
Need a place to hide something or to find out about those things that are hidden, along with broken and discarded rubbish? Where would you to look?

I am proud to say that I thought of this a long time ago and wrote about it, here, in COS. I was in awe of the room that Harry found to stash the HBP book. Voldemort could easily have utilized that room and Harry, lets pray, should have a brain wave and think to check....possibly accio the horcrux. Think about the hidden, (forgotten) items that are from the original founders. Im especially curious about the bloody axe possibly being the bloody barrons.

great minds think alike! great editorial.:tu:

However, how do we know what room Voldemort might have required? We know Albus required a toilet so ended up finding a room full of chamber pots, Dumbledore's Army required a room with enough space to carry out DADA practice including conjuring up patronuses. Harry and Draco summoned up the same room obviously as a place to hide something but what if Voldemort summoned up a different room to hide his horcrux in - not a room to hide something with lots of stuff in it but maybe a room with something else in it - maybe another way into the Chamber of Secrets that could only be accesed by speaking parsletongue as I'm sure he thought that not many others would be able to speak it and would therefore be fairly safe using it. So perhaps a room full of disguises for secret passages via cupboards or magical doors or something. However we look at it, the rooms were all different except for the one that both Harry and Draco ended up getting. I was under the impression the Room of Requirement became whatever the person who required it sort of wished for or summoned up or. Maybe Harry has to think outside the square so to speak.

I'm inclined to think that the Chamber would have been a good hiding spot for horcruxes as nobody but Tom Riddle seemed to know where it was until Harry and co happened along and now that entrance has collapsed as we saw in the 2nd book they only seem to know the way Fawkes took them out which seemed via the collapsed passageway so I'm a little confused as since this all happened has Albus, his staff and the ministry gone down to the Chamber and given it a thorough going over - which is what they should have done if possible or what???? Is there something I have missed in the books? Can someone please enlighten me. Also didn't I read somewhere that the Chamber of Secrets plot was moved forward in her story from a much later book?

I have to agree that the Room is going to fit into the 7th book - but Hogwarts itself will, in my opinion, continue to be the centre of the Trio's life during the hunt for the Horcrux's - to me Hogwart's is where Harry and Voldie both came to realise who they really are.
Secondly, has anyone else out there thought about the tiara that harry used to mark the hiding place of his book - could it be a horcrux?
One theory I have is that the remaining Horcuxes are in Hogwarts but there are only 5 plus the piece of soul in Voldie - when Voldemort tried to kill Harry as a baby - he was going to make his 6th horcrux with Harry's death but the spell rebounded onto him and killed his body and the piece of soul that was currently in his body, what allowed him to continue was the piece of soul that was split and meant for the Horcrux but never made it.

Just a theory of course but would love to hear what others have to say about it.

Someone commented about the Award for Special Services that Tom Riddle got in book 2 - I always assumed that was for exposing Hagrid and Aragog!

Two thoughts seem to run through many of the posts: that DD wouldn't allow LV access to Hogwarts and he had no chance of going there; and the Room of Req. was essentially a storage and trash room and therefore beneath the level of importance that LV would require for hiding one of his Horcruxes

LV did have access to Hogwarts as I stated in my first and second posts, on the two occasions he went there (with appointments) to ask the headmasters for a teaching position. So he had not one but two opportuniities to visit Hogwarts.

As for being escorted by a staff member to DD's office? Like DD, Voldemort most likely knew how to become invisible without an invisibility cloak so no one saw him as he walked the corriders of Hogwarts. However, as I said in my second post, it wouldn't have been difficult for him to stop off in the RofR on his way to seeing DD (or Dippet) as the room seems to be located near the headmaster's office from the descriptions in the books.

As for the RofR being a less than suitable place for a Horcrux, I think that's exactly the kind of place LV would use. In my first post, I described it as being a place where he could hide the Horcrux(es) in plain sight. That is not to say that he didn't protect them. To me, this is a place like the cave in the Half-Blood Prince where he hid his horcrux in a stone basin in the middle of the lake of an hidden cave. That wasn't an elegant, glorious location for something of such great importance. What made it a suitable location was the magical protection and concealment LV created to protect his Horcrux. I think he did the same thing at Hogwarts.

I think he had the opportunity, his two appointments with the headmasters; the means, his powerful magical abilities to protect his Horcruxes and his knowledge of the school (knowing where the Room of R. was); and the need to tuck away his two most valuable possessions, his Horcruxes. While Harry had to mark his placement of the Prince's potions book, LV would not have had to do that since he would have used Magic and we know from DD that magic can be detected.

For those who are questioning how or when Voldemort had access to the RoR, I have two counter-questions:

1) when did the vanishing cabinet get broken and moved into the Room of Requirement?

2) when did the other half of the cabinet become part of the B&B collection?

I think the clue that Voldy went to work and B&B right after school could be important.

What if HE realized what the cabinet could do, and hid it in the RoR to allow him free access to Hogwarts (to search for other artifacts?). Only years later did it get broken.

Is UK cover art the Room of requriement. Full of treasures wealth equales power and that is all that maters to Voldermrot is power. wealth of knowledge and gold. And wear are the the two forgotten banned books and old forgotten treasures. As the room becomes what ever the person needs. and what did dear Tom do as a child but take thing from other people and keep them hidden. He would need a place to hide the things he took as a student and discovered a room full of banned books and valuable old treasures. His own private spy room and treasure house. For each room becomes what the the requester wants. and what would Tom Riddle want a secret room for. He wanted to stay over the summer at school to discover more about the room and what secrets it held? What treasures did he take with him from the room when he left school that he could sell the B&B store as he became very good at aquiring treasures for them. Building up his wealth and power. enough till he found about about the cup and locket to leave and explore the world a rich person. The two thing Voldermort wanted was internal life and power and money equals power. And two things that would give him power are magic and wealth. Books to learn powerfull magic and treasures to give him wealth. but where would he find them but in the room of requirement.

Do I think there is a horcrux in the room NO.. but I believe there will be books in the room that tell Harry all about the horcurx spell and how to reverse the spell and others on how to defeat Voldermort. Where he hide or how to find and identify horcruxs, are there in the room of requirements.

As the UK cover art usually deals with the first 1/4 of the book.

I know that this idea is popular, especially among those who hope that Harry returns to Hogwarts as a student, but I see at least three big problems with this idea.

First, we have no evidence that Voldemort knew about the Room of Requirement. No, the fact that he knew a lot of secrets does not mean that we should assume that he knew about this one. Voldemort was worried about getting into the deep dungeons of the castle by all accounts: we have no indication that he was sneaking around the top floors.

Second, Voldemort never had access to the Room after acquiring the missing Horcruxes. Voldemort left Hogwarts with only two items that eventually became Horcrexes: the Ring and the Diary. However, both were elsewhere. Voldemort had to use Lucius Malfoy to attempt to sneak the Diary into the Chamber of Secrets, after all. So, how was he supposed to get the Cup or the Ravenclaw/Gryffindor artifact into Hogwarts?

Now, you might say that Voldemort could have gone when he interviewed for the DADA job; however, would Rowling really demean Dumbledore with such a scheme that would be an idiot plot (sensu Damon Knight: that is, have the supposedly smart character act really stupid for a bit) for Dumbledore? Would she really contradict the developed character of Voldemort, who both fears Dumbledore and who is exceedingly paranoid? Remember, Dumbledore plants the seed in Voldemort's mind that he has been watched even at Hogsmeade: Dumbledore's self-effacing joke about being friendly with the local barmen would not have assuaged Voldemort!

Third, let's ignore #1 and #2 and suppose that Voldemort somehow got in to Hogwarts with the Cup or some artifact of Ravenclaw's or Gryffindor's. How could Harry ever find this Horcrux? Voldemort would have requested a room that he and he alone could access: it would not be tossed in with the junk hidden by students. Along these lines, how would Harry learn that this was the hiding place? Dumbledore's lessons say, "look for places of great personal significanct to Voldemort?" Dumbledore has no evidence that says the Room of Requirement meant anything to Voldemort in the way that the Guant Shack, the Torture Cave and the Chamber of Secrets did. As Dumbledore was at the school during this time, he should have learned this if it were true. Again, it would demean and degrade Dumbledore's character to have Harry figure this out when it happened under Dumbledore's nose.


Now, I agree that Voldemort wanted a Hogwarts Horcrux. But had the Diary plan gone off as Voldemort desired, then the Diary would have wound up in the Chamber of Secrets. That was the Hogwarts Horcrux. I think that the best that we can hope to do is predict why the two places with hidden Horcruxes were important to Voldemort. I would suggest: The place where Voldemort learned the Horcrux spell;
Where ever it is that Slytherin went after he left Hogwarts, or where he was buried. (If I had to bet, then I would be that it is Slytherin's crypt on the cover!);
Some place where Voldemort established his dominance over other Dark wizards.


My point about the Chamber of Secrets was two-fold. First it would be, as others have suggested, in Voldemort's mind, an entirely appropriate place to hide a piece of his soul. That would be a good reason for Harry to want to search it. But the plural of the title is ancient. What if while searching for a secret of Voldemort, Harry finds a secret of Slytherin himself? Such a thing could turn out to be what he needs to understand to defeat Voldemort.The Chamber almost certainly was to be the hiding place for the Diary. Malfoy was supposed to plant it on a student, who would then be possessed to open the chamber and release the basilisk. Malfoy had no idea that the Diary was a Horcrux - indeed, Malfoy probably does not know that Horcruxes really exist, even if he has heard of them: otherwise, he would not have asked Voldemort how Voldemort returned, nor would Malfoy have been so surprised that this happened - and he never would think of the fact that the Diary wound up somewhere.

Voldemort would not have wanted two Horcruxes in the same place. So, I would not consider the Chamber any further. I also would not think of the Chamber as a good place for any valuables from Slytherin: Slytherin would have taken them away when he left Hogwarts. Now, if Slytherin has a tomb somewhere, that might be a better place to look!

I'm more inclined to think that the Chamberof of Secrets holds one of the Horcruxes. If Sirius managed to slink into Hogwarts as a dog, perhaps Voldemort or Nagini might have slipped in as a snake, opened the chamber and hidden the horcrux there - the large statue of Slitherine might be a good place to start the search from.

This assumes that Voldemort had Nagini during the First War. It is quite likely that she is a recent acquisition by Voldemort through Wormtail in order to procure her venom for Voldemort's restorative potion. Indeed, Nagini can go places on Voldemort's command when she is being possessed by Voldemort. Dumbledore, however, guesses that Nagini only became a Horcrux during the summer between Years 5 and 6. By then, the security, in the form of barrier charms, around the castle had been augmented. In PoA, if you remember, the only noted security addition were Dementor sentries, which are less effective than actual barriers.

Although Dumbledore says that 'Tom Riddle' explored deeper into the castle's magical secrets more than any other student before or since, that does not necessarily include knowing the layout of the castle and grounds as well as the Marauders, of which Sirius was one. Sirius had an extra bit of knowledge about Hogwarts secrets. If nothing else, that bit of knowledge was the tunnel running from the Womping Willow to the Shrieking Shack. Tom Riddle was long gone before the Marauders' generation came and the Womping Willow was planted.

However we don't know how many secret passages there are to the Chamber of Secrets which we do know that Tom Riddle knew about.

Another thing which bothers me is that most of you are talking about ONE Room of Requirement when we know from the books that there are many of them including the one albus came across full of chamberpots when he was looking for a toilet and the one harry and Co took Dumbledore's Army to so they they could carry out DADA lessons and practice making patronuses in. That is at least TWO others and how many more can there be? My guess is if you require a room then the number could be limitless as it seems from what I gather from reading the books the room can appear to anyone needing it for any purpose. This fact seems to have been overlooked by everyone posting here.

Now - the question is what room did Voldemort REALLY require??????

I'm more inclined to think that the Chamberof of Secrets holds one of the Horcruxes. If Sirius managed to slink into Hogwarts as a dog, perhaps Voldemort or Nagini might have slipped in as a snake, opened the chamber and hidden the horcrux there - the large statue of Slitherine might be a good place to start the search from. This assumes that Voldemort had Nagini during the First War. I might be wrong, but belisto might be assuming (as many people do) that Voldemort is an animagus who can turn into a snake.

However, regardless of the mode, we know that Voldemort could not sneak into Hogwarts. Voldemort would not have resorted to the more complicated scheme of using Malfoy to sneak the Diary into Hogwarts if Voldemort himself could sneak it into the castle, or simply open the Chamber again himself. Also, if Voldemort could have snuck in as a snake, then why did he not assassinate anybody (like, say, Dumbledore) at the school? We have no indication that he did, and people like Dumbledore are quite certain that Hogwarts is safe from Voldemort. This strongly suggests that there were no failed assassination attempts, either!

Although Dumbledore says that 'Tom Riddle' explored deeper into the castle's magical secrets more than any other student before or since, that does not necessarily include knowing the layout of the castle and grounds as well as the Marauders, of which Sirius was one. .... Tom Riddle was long gone before the Marauders' generation came and the Womping Willow was planted.Also, Dumbledore made this statement before he even learned that Sirius and others were animagi or that they had made the Marauder's Map. So, he probably did not know just how much the Marauders had learned!

However we don't know how many secret passages there are to the Chamber of Secrets which we do know that Tom Riddle knew about. I am pretty sure that the Diary Voldemort says that he found "the" way to get into the Chamber.

Moreover, this would not have helped Voldemort later: if he could have gotten into the Chamber in later years, then he would have just gone there himself, released the Basilisk, and hidden the Diary in the Chamber without including Lucius Malfoy. The fact that someone who works alone was forced to use a middle man tells us that Voldemort had given up on getting into the castle himself.

Another thing which bothers me is that most of you are talking about ONE Room of Requirement when we know from the books that there are many of them...Now - the question is what room did Voldemort REALLY require??????This is a good point. However, we have to add one more to it: we know that the Room cannot provide just anything. For example, Harry cannot get it to give him the room that Draco is using. People have suggested that Voldemort used it to get the Horcrux spell: but we have no reason to think that the Room could provide something forbidden by the Headmaster (as anything to do with Horcruxes was). We have no reason to think that it can just "invent" things out of thin air: indeed, Harry recognizes some of the objects that he sees as having come from elsewhere in the castle.

What Voldemort would have wanted, of course, was a room that Voldemort and only Voldemort could access. That would be a great hiding place for a Horcrux. Can the room provide that? Who knows. However, given that this would effectively end the plot, I am doubting that we'll see this: unless the bit of Voldemort in Harry's scar lets him access the room, too! (But what would possibly get Harry to request it?)

Of course, all of this is predicated on Voldemort knowing about the room. As there is no evidence that he did, and as we should assume that people do not know about this room until we get evidence to the contrary, we already are on thin ice! (Surely, Voldemort would have thought of some way to use the room to his advantage earlier, had he known about it!)

Good point about Tom Riddle and his knowledge or ignorance of this room but if he did know about it maybe you have to request access to it in parseltongue like you did the Chamber. Not many people can speak it and only few understand it. Albus was one who understood it but could he speak it I wonder? Maybe if Harry asked for a room in parseltongue it would be interesting to find out what happened.

Great Editorial :relax: The room is a good idea it can become anything you need it for. No one could access it , look at Harry trying to get in when Malfoy was using it. I believe Voldemort could come and go from Hogwarts at anytime. He said he searched the school for years. It's probable he know all the secret passageways before he left school . And as for the books in there he was using it like a library, read one book and then put it back. Ha Ha. DD can become invisible I'm sure Voldemort could also. I believe the Chamber of Secrets holds a Horcrux . I posted this after HBP but everone said the chamber was used already. I saw an interview with D Haymen years ago after HPPA he was asked if they where saving the sets he said only the chamber because JK Rowling said it would be used again. I've search for the interview but they only seam to keep the ones from the actors. If anyone remembers this interview please post to let us know. :love:

Good point about Tom Riddle and his knowledge or ignorance of this room but if he did know about it maybe you have to request access to it in parseltongue like you did the Chamber. Not many people can speak it and only few understand it. Albus was one who understood it but could he speak it I wonder? Maybe if Harry asked for a room in parseltongue it would be interesting to find out what happened.Even that would be a little bit too much like the Jame Bond villain putting James in the elaborate death machine rather than just killing him. That is, why not simply ask for a room that Voldemort alone can breach? There might not be many other Parseltongues, but his uncle is in Azkaban, and there might be others. Voldemort is rarer than are parseltongues: he's flat out unique!

Too many readers would ask why Voldemort did not ask for a room that opened only for him if Rowling used the Parseltongue route. She would have to explain why Voldemort did not do the obvious thing, but there really is no way that she could explain that the Parseltongue route is possible whereas the personal room one is not. Nobody seems to know too much about exactly how the room works: yes, it cannot do anything, but it can do a lot of things. Harry himself would have to learn the theory, because we read only what Harry witnesses.

I believe Voldemort could come and go from Hogwarts at anytime. He said he searched the school for years.His 16 year old memories said that, so it refers to his student days. We know that Voldemort could not come and go from Hogwarts any time: if he could have, then why did he use Lucius Malfoy to sneak the Diary into the School instead of just going in himself, releasing the basilisk and depositing the Diary there? Why did he never attempt to murder Dumbledore there? At the height of his powers, Voldemort could not take over Hogwarts: so clearly he could not get in there himself.

I believe the Chamber of Secrets holds a Horcrux . I posted this after HBP but everone said the chamber was used already. I saw an interview with D Haymen years ago after HPPA he was asked if they where saving the sets he said only the chamber because JK Rowling said it would be used again.You are misremembering what Heyman said, I am quite sure. Heyman said that there were scenes from the Chamber movie that were included only because Rowling said that they would be important later. (Rowling herself also said that she advised Kloves to keep some unstated scenes in Chamber that he had wanted to cut because they would be important later.) This almost certainly refered to Knockturn Alley. As for the sets, they have reused sets from all of the movies: the Defense against Dark Arts set has been the same in each of the last three movies, for example. This came up, because after Chamber, they decided to stop doing that: audiences thought scenes like Knockturn Alley wasted time because they did not contribute to the plot or the story of the movie that they were watching.

(Also, the Chamber itself was not much of a set: that was mostly CGI, I think!)

Again, the Diary would have wound up in the Chamber had Voldemort's plan gone properly. Why would Voldemort want two Horcruxes in the same place? Just one lucky Parseltongue, and one third of his Horcruxes could be destroyed at once!

Wimsey you said that his uncle is in Azkaban and I read it as Voldemort's uncle. Who is this uncle? I thought Voldemort wa the only one left alive as Morphin (he is the uncle you are referring to isn't he) died didn't he? I may be wrong though and he is still alive.

Wimsey you said that his uncle is in Azkaban and I read it as Voldemort's uncle. Who is this uncle? I thought Voldemort wa the only one left alive as Morphin (he is the uncle you are referring to isn't he) died didn't he? I may be wrong though and he is still alive.Morfin did die in Azkaban, but years after Voldemort was in school. Dumbledore had tracked Morfin down as part of his research on Voldemort and tried to get Morfin released, so Morfin must have been around when Voldemort began his ascendancy to power.

The real upshot is that this means that by his sixth year (and well before the time Voldemort was trying to hide Horcruxes), Voldemort was aware that he was not the only parselmouth left, as he had flattered himself in his fifth year. Now, are parselmouths rare? Sure. But does someone like Voldemort want to trust his immortality to improbable when he can trust it to impossible? If the Room opens only for Lord Voldemort, then no unfriendly parselmouth can get his Horcrux.

So, given the choice between a room that only Voldemort can access and one that can only be opened by a parselmouth (which includes but might not be limited to Voldemort), Voldemort should choose the former. Otherwise, Rowling has a plot that depends on Voldemort doing something out-of-character in that it is both unintelligent (i.e., an idiot plot) and not paranoid enough, OR one that depends on somehow informing the reader that the Room can do one thing but not another. Of course, either way, Rowling winds up recycling a plot-device from a prior book, which never is a good thing either. (She has recycled plot elements, but always in new ways.)


Of course, this really should be an academic argument. Voldemort had only two items that would become Horcruxes when he left Hogwarts. Voldemort did not have access to Hogwarts afterwards, unless Rowling resorts to more out-of-character backstory for Voldemort. So, it necessarily follows that neither the Cup nor the unknown Ravenclaw/Gryffindor relic are in the Room of Requirement.

Maybe it is me but I don't see the chamber of secrets in the book's cover art.

I've always thought that there was a horcurx hidden in the room of Requirment, or at least that Harry will find some useful items in the piles of banned junk.

Wimsey- It may be that the answer to why Riddle could not get a room that he alone could access is actually very simple. We are speaking of a room in a school. Would the builder of a room in such a place want to create a place of complete privacy? I wouldn't think so. The room where students hide things they dont want found is no doubt known to the staff besides Trelawny, and the accumulated debris no doubt leaves some doubt in the minds of its users about what might be safely hidden there.

Slytherin probably encouraged his student's predjudices. If his students were inclined to kidnap or even kill those they saw as unfit to be at Hogwarts, giving them a place to dispose of the bodies where they would never be found would be too much temptation for some.

Of course if a horcrux was in such a room as only Voldemort can enter, that would make Harry's horcrux quest problematic. As for Parseltongue as the key, JKR has already had Slytherin use it as the key to the Chamber of Secrets. I think if it is used again, it will be by Slytherin, perhaps to open the Locket. As you say, since Riddle was quite aware of other Parseltongue speakers, he would be less inclined to use it as a key.

Wimsey- It may be that the answer to why Riddle could not get a room that he alone could access is actually very simple. We are speaking of a room in a school. Would the builder of a room in such a place want to create a place of complete privacy? I wouldn't think so.Nothing in the canon suggests this, which means that Rowling would have to find some way of informing the readers of this. Indeed, by rights, she should already have done so. Remember, it is NOT our job to come up with excuses: if Rowling does not explain it, then it is a plot-hole. So, how could she have it explained that some rooms can be requested and others cannot? Keep in mind that Rowling has a story to tell: a lot of background narrative for a single plot-point will hinder that!

(Along this lines, why would the person who made the room [if that indeed is the room's origin] want anyone to control it with Parseltongue, given that the language is associated with the Dark Arts by most wizards and witches?)

Also, would Voldemort be so forgiving of such a room? If he could not get a room that responded only to him (and we have no reason to think that it would not: after all, it provides spaces for students to do forbidden things as it is), then he should have decided to not use the room. Voldemort can find other places that he can secure more effectively than that. Otherwise, Rowling would be writing an idiot plot that would demean and diminish Voldemort's character: he is supposed to be brilliant and paranoid, and leaving a Horcrux in a room where anyone could find it would be far from brilliant or paranoid.

Of course if a horcrux was in such a room as only Voldemort can enter, that would make Harry's horcrux quest problematic. As for Parseltongue as the key, JKR has already had Slytherin use it as the key to the Chamber of Secrets. I think if it is used again, it will be by Slytherin, perhaps to open the Locket. As you say, since Riddle was quite aware of other Parseltongue speakers, he would be less inclined to use it as a key.The Locket did not open when the Gaunts were speaking in Parseltongue: given that all eyes were on Merope during part of this scene when Parseltongue was being spoken, and given that the locket already had been mentioned, if it had popped open, then Harry or Dumbledore should have noticed. (Also, there is no reason for the locket to be opened: it needs to be destroyed, and the fact that it does not open might indicate that it has been "de-Horcruxed": a locket that has lost its ornament and that cannot open is broken).

As for the "problematic" part, that is my key point. Rowling had to write a plot that would not have readers thinking "that was really stupid of Voldemort and/or Dumbldore" while at the same time not leaving them thinking "there is no way Harry could have figure out that." The Room simply does not allow for that. If Voldemort could get into Hogwarts to hide the Cup and/or the unknown Horcrux, then Dumbledore is diminished. If Voldemort is willing to hide a Horcrux in a room that anybody can access, then Voldemort is diminished. If Harry can figure out that it was put in Hogwarts when Dumbledore could not, then Dumbledore is diminished and/or Harry looks impossibly brilliant. All of these are very bad options!

If Rowling instead has Voldemort hide the Cup and the unknown Horcrux in two places of personal importance to Voldemort outside of Hogwarts, of which Harry infers by combining what he learns from Dumbledore and R.A.B., then she (probably) will leave far fewer readers thinking that Dumbledore and/or Voldemort acted foolishly, or that Harry got overly lucky.

The final thing to consider is the trajectory of the story. Hogwarts' role in the overarching plot is to provide Harry with the basic tools for the final showdown. At some point, the hero has to step out from behind the safety of his mentors and conquer the antagonist alone with the tools that they gave him. Hogwarts might contribute one or two aids: but Harry has to go forth into the larger world for Hogwarts' role in the plot to be truly fulfilled.

Wimsey- I think I already agreed with most of what you just said, at least in effect. JKR cannot put a horcrux in a place only Voldemort can access unless there is away around the protection of the site, or around the protection of the horcrux. Both of those, while possible, make her project much harder.

But, since Harry hid the Prince's potion book in the RoR, there is a good chance he will go back there anyway. It might occur to him that the horcrux might be there, and a conversation with Ron and Hermione about it might result. HArry might say it isn't grand enough for Voldemort, but wonder if he might have sought a special room of his own. Hermione might say, "That is easy enough to test," and ask for a room only she could access. If it doesn't work, the possibility is excluded.

You are right it is JKR who must lead the story, but somehow she has to make clear that the RoR could not be a hiding place. The question is what is the most concise way to do it compatible with what ever else she wants to do? Finding the Horcruxes would do the job, but if found too easily, the same problems of diminishing Voldemort and DUmbledore apply. And one way to avoid that would be to have the Trio look somewhere it isn't. Doesn't it diminish Harry to not even think of the RoR?

I disagree to a point about both the locket and Hogwarts. I would not expect random Parseltongue to open the locket. But none of them were trying to open the locket. Forget the Horcrux aspect for a moment. It might just as well have been Slytherin's Amulet as Slytherin's Locket. But it is a Locket, and Lockets usually contain things of importance to their owner. And Voldemort probably knows what is in this one. If one oughtn't introduce a pistol without eventually firing it, ought one introduce a locket and never open it? Whose picture might be in there, and what/who might she look like?

I suspect that there is more to the dispute which broke up the founders than we now know, and it will be relevant to how the school will be more unified in the future. JKR has apparently used the relationships (and adventures) of the contemporary students to suggest what things have been like at Hogwarts for a long time, at least as far back as Harry's parents, and even through Tom RIddle. Why would these parallels not extend back to the early days of the school? They might explain why Slytherin chose to leave when he did, where was Gryfindor's sword before Harry needed it, what special connection Dumbledore has to the school, and perhaps even why Voldemort was apparently williing to spare Lily. I don't imagine that JKR would expect us to extrapolate this far. I expect we will learn something additonal about the Founders in DH. But the Locket is something which could be opened early on.

WIMSEY; I should have said when he was a student and when he worked for Borgins & Berks before Dumbledor became head. He could have placed Ravevclaw's cup then. You may be right that I may not be remembering what D. Hayman said correctly I'm familiar with Rowling and Kloves interview. After thinking about this editoral and reading the posts I would hope DD search the Chamber and if not why not. I like to add Voldmort gave the Diary to Lucius Malfoy for safe keeping, not to be used .

But, since Harry hid the Prince's potion book in the RoR, there is a good chance he will go back there anyway. It might occur to him that the horcrux might be there, and a conversation with Ron and Hermione about it might result. I expect that Harry got the potions books at the end of Prince. Rowling does not bother with small details like that, as we saw during Goblet of Fire. Of course, it could well be that after learning who the author was, Harry wants no part of the book anymore!

HArry might say it isn't grand enough for Voldemort, but wonder if he might have sought a special room of his own. Hermione might say, "That is easy enough to test," and ask for a room only she could access. If it doesn't work, the possibility is excluded. Perhaps. If so, then it probably will be Hermione who will say "Don't you think that Dumbledore would have considered that?" Indeed, she probably ought to do that a couple of times just to have a reminder of Dumbledore.

You are right it is JKR who must lead the story, but somehow she has to make clear that the RoR could not be a hiding place.If Harry finds the two hidden Horcruxes elsewhere, then there will be no question about it. If Rowling takes the time to explain why every fan idea is wrong, then Hallows will be 99% rebuttal!

Doesn't it diminish Harry to not even think of the RoR?Well, I am sure that it will for some readers, but I know that anything that Rowling does will diminish Harry in the eyes of some readers! (We saw that with the last two books.) That being said, Harry knows that Voldemort had no access to Hogwarts after he (Voldemort) acquired the "final four" Horcruxes. Harry knows the lengths to which Voldemort had to go to sneak the Diary into Hogwarts. Harry could eliminate the Room just on that knowledge.

Hmmm: I hope that Rowling does not resort to using Ron to come up with ideas like the RoR replete with some convoluted explanation for how Voldemort might have snuck into the place, and then having Hermione or Harry shoot them down. She does that to poor Ron enough as it is!

If one oughtn't introduce a pistol without eventually firing it, ought one introduce a locket and never open it? Whose picture might be in there, and what/who might she look like?I would say that just making the locket a Horcrux is firing enough. That was all the Ring got.

That being written, Rowling could have it include something like a hint about where Slytherin's Tomb is. Voldemort certainly would hallow that place..... However, then I would ask: why didn't Voldemort remove that from the Locket? He would not want one Horcrux providing any evidence about the location of another. In a sense, that would turn 2 Horcruxes into 1.9 Horcruxes: the safety of numbers is lessened slightly. Really, if there was anything important in the Locket, Voldemort should have taken it out for his own purposes.

I don't imagine that JKR would expect us to extrapolate this far. I expect we will learn something additonal about the Founders in DH. But the Locket is something which could be opened early on.Also, Rowling herself should not elaborate that far! Remember, this is a story about Harry Potter: she has to stay focused on Harry. If we do learn something about the Founders, then it needs to be something that leads Harry to a Horcrux. This is part of the reason why I expect that a Horcrux will be hidden at Slytherin's tomb or some similar place. This would be of much significance to Voldemort, not just because of the Slytherin connection, but also because Slytherin, like Voldemort, was effectively exiled from Hogwarts.

That being said, Harry will need some clue that Dumbledore did not have that will lead him there. Hmmmm, perhaps there is something to opening the locket after all! Still, why would Voldemort leave something like that there? That is as bad as Dumbledore not paying attention while Voldemort sneaks around Hogwarts.


WIMSEY; I should have said when he was a student and when he worked for Borgins & Berks before Dumbledor became head. He could have placed Ravevclaw's cup then.If so, then we should have had some clue that he returned to Hogwarts. Remember also that Voldemort had little time: he disappeared pretty quickly after he murdered Hepzibah, and then simply disappeared. Moreover, isn't this very inconsistent with the character that Rowling has developed? Both the Cave and the Shack show careful, meticulous planning, with Voldemort choosing out-of-the-way places that would be difficult to find and that did not have people constantly milling about them. The Chamber was a little different, but remember that this Horcrux hiding was more than a Horcrux hiding: it was planting a weapon to overthrow Dumbledore and wreak havoc within Hogwarts.

So, given how we have seen Voldemort operate, it would be very much out-of-character for him to do something so hasty and over which he had so very little personal control. He took his time with the Ring and with the Locket. He hoped to one day return to Hogwarts as a teacher, and his prospects for doing so must have seemed good at the time. (Remember, the then-headmaster thought very highly of Voldemort.) So, why do something so desperate?

After thinking about this editoral and reading the posts I would hope DD search the Chamber and if not why not.Dumbledore might well have done so already: just because we do not see Dumbledore do something it does not mean that he did not do it. He is not a protagonist, after all.

I like to add Voldmort gave the Diary to Lucius Malfoy for safe keeping, not to be used .No! Dumbledore makes it VERY clear in Prince: Voldemort gave Malfoy the Diary so that Malfoy would plant it on a student. That is how Malfoy knew what the Diary would do. Dumbledore is explicit: Malfoy went ahead with the original plan. (Dumlbedore notes that Voldemort works alone, so he would never just give someone a Horcrux for safe-keeping: unless Dumbledore is lying or forgetful, it follows that Dumbledore thought that Voldemort needed Malfoy to sneak the Diary into the school at that point.)

There is (possibly) an extremely important clue in that exchange. Harry asks why Voldemort was so upset at Malfoy when it was Voldemort's plan all along to send the Diary into Hogwarts. Dumbledore notes that when Voldemort did devised the plan (shortly before Godrics Hollow, according to Dumbledore), Voldemort thought that he would be able to make more Horcruxes.

Isn't it interesting that Dumbledore seems to think that Voldemort no longer can do that? That might set a gleam to Dumbledore's eye!

I have not read HBP in a while so my time lines are a little off. If someone could, please remind whether or not Voldemort met with Dippet before, after or during the time he worked at B&B. If he did have access, I think he would have hidden something at Hogwarts. It was a place that was extremely important to him. Just as Hogwarts is a symbol of a home to Harry, Hogwarts was a sign of Voldemort's greatness and power to him. Any chance that he could have to get something in there, he would.
The theory of the ROR is not that farfetched to me. Though others have stated that it would diminish either Voldemort or Dumbledore to have him hide it in the room, I'm not sure I agree. Even though Voldemort had a specific plan in mind for the diary, it was unlike the intelligent paranoid that many have been talking about to leave an unprotected horocrux with Malfoy. That is not in character for him. We could assume that the hiding places for his earlier horocrux were chosen when he was younger and less thoughtful of their protection but he would not have given this to Malfoy until he was much older.

This response may not apply to getting back in the ROR, but is more to the speculation on what might be in the locket.

Lockets quite often hold pictures. We've already seen the picture of Mrs. Black permanently stuck on the wall. Perhaps there is a picture permantly attached inside of the locket (if opened) that will help point the Trio in the right direction. The picture might have been placed there before Voldermort acquired it and cannot be removed by him.

I have not read HBP in a while so my time lines are a little off. If someone could, please remind whether or not Voldemort met with Dippet before, after or during the time he worked at B&B. Voldemort asked Dippet if he could teach before he left Hogwarts. Dippet rejected the request.

There is no indication that Voldemort returned to Hogwarts in the interim. Dumbledore should have commented on that, and collected memories from people who met with him when he visited. Surely some of the staff would have had recollections of this.

If he did have access, I think he would have hidden something at Hogwarts.The problem with this idea is that Voldemort had only two objects that would become Horcruxes when he left Hogwarts, and neither of them were hidden in the school at that time. One of them, the Diary, later was snuck into the school with the ultimate goal apparently being to have it left in the Chamber.

Also, remember that Voldemort needs more than just to visit, unless he was using the Chamber. That seems implausible because Voldemort would not have sent the Diary to the Chamber if he already had a Horcrux in there. If it was somewhere else, then Voldemort would need to create defenses, traps, etc. This could not be done in a single visit. We have seen how much care Voldemort puts into guarding his Horcruxes with the Cave: why would we expect him to go for a quick and dirty solution at that same time?

The theory of the ROR is not that farfetched to me. Though others have stated that it would diminish either Voldemort or Dumbledore to have him hide it in the room, I'm not sure I agree.Look at it this way: if Rowling went this route, how often to do you think that you would hear people say "that was really dumb of Dumbledore and/or Voldemort?" Even if all of those people are wrong, Rowling will stand condemned. Readers will assume that she did it just to get Hogwarts back into the story. Rowling needs a plot that the minimum number of people will find contrived.

Even though Voldemort had a specific plan in mind for the diary, it was unlike the intelligent paranoid that many have been talking about to leave an unprotected horocrux with Malfoy. That is not in character for him.Not entirely, but it shows how desperate Voldemort was to: Sneak a Horcrux into the Chamber;
Unseat Dumbledore.This is what shows the real problem with the idea that Voldemort had access to Hogwarts after he interviewed: if he had, then he would not have had to resort to such a scheme. Voldemort actually had to rely on someone else, even if that someone was completely clueless about what he really as doing.

(Again, remember that Voldemort did NOT leave the Diary with Malfoy for Malfoy to protect: Malfoy was supposed to sneak the Diary into Hogwarts. Dumbledore is absolutely clear about this: Malfoy went ahead with the original plan when he planted the Diary on a student.

So, we can look at this in a couple of different ways. One, Dumbledore was wrong about Voldemort's character. Two, Hogwarts was so inaccessible to Voldemort that he had to resort to using the Diary to get a Horcrux into Hogwarts. Rowling says assume that Dumbledore is right, and #2 necessarily follows from what Dumbledore teaches Harry. So, I'm going with #2!

We could assume that the hiding places for his earlier horocrux were chosen when he was younger and less thoughtful of their protection but he would not have given this to Malfoy until he was much older.We have seen two hiding places for early Horcruxes: the Cave and the Shack. Neither were anything other than thoughtful, as both almost killed Dumbldore.


Perhaps there is a picture permantly attached inside of the locket (if opened) that will help point the Trio in the right direction. The picture might have been placed there before Voldermort acquired it and cannot be removed by him.In that case, Voldemort should not use the place to which the locket points. Again, that would be a bit of a plothole: if Voldemort knows that one of the Horcruxes would provide a clue to another place that he might want to hide something, then he should get another hiding place.

Keep in mind that people have hypothesized (with good reason) more places outside of Hogwarts that should be important to Voldemort than he has Horcruxes to hide. Moreover, we have not learned all that we will about Voldemort. So, given that Voldemort has multiple choices, why take one that has some clue pointing to it?

The thing about Malfoy and the diary is the question of when Voldemort gave him the diary and why did Malfoy decide to use it after he thought that Voldemort was gone for good? When did Malfoy get the instructions to smuggle the diary into Hogwarts? Did Draco tell his father that Voldemort was hiding in Quirrell's head or what? Why hadn't Riddle hidden the diary in ROR before he left Hogwarts as he doesn't seem to have used it as an adult and if he'd hidden it before he left school he might have been able to manipulate the finding of it as Tom Riddle.
Sorry for the rambling - I've had the flu for over a week now and stll am muzzy-headed so if that didn't make sense ignore it.

When did Malfoy get the instructions to smuggle the diary into Hogwarts? Did Draco tell his father that Voldemort was hiding in Quirrell's head or what?Voldemort almost certainly gave the instructions before Godric's Hollow. Dumbledore states that Voldemort told Malfoy that the Diary was cleverly enchanted to possess a student and open the Chamber.

However, Dumbledore notes that this was shortly before Voldemort disappeared. As Malfoy assumed Voldemort to be dead, Malfoy obvoiusly

Why hadn't Riddle hidden the diary in ROR before he left Hogwarts as he doesn't seem to have used it as an adult and if he'd hidden it before he left school he might have been able to manipulate the finding of it as Tom Riddle. For one thing, the Diary was not a Horcrux initially. Dumbledore emphasizes this when Harry asks why Voldemort turned the Diary into a Horcrux when it was not a Founder's Relic. Dumbledore did not say that it had always been a Horcrux or that it was made before Voldemort hit upon the idea of using Founder's Relics. Instead, Dumbledore emphasized that it emphasized Voldemort's link to Slytherin: a "post hoc" explanation. Dumbledore also emphasizes that the Diary was simply a weird Horcrux: it was designed as a weapon and was used as a weapon. It was the fact that Voldemort chose to design and implement such an odd Horcrux that led Dumbledore to make the huge intellectual leap of infering that there was at least one more Horcrux.

If we look at the timeline, Voldemort likely did not turn the Diary into a Horcrux until fairly late. When Voldemort kills Hepzibah, he has only a trace of Horcrux damage (flashing red eyes) and the Ring is gone. When he visits Dumbledore 10 years later, he now has the Locket and the Cup, and his physical tranformation is about halfway towards "Voldemort classic." This suggests that he has another 2-3 to go. Also, this is the time where Voldemort now realizes that he is not getting back into Hogwarts quickly: he had honestly hoped to be allowed back in as a teacher. So, it would have been at this time that he realized that he needed careful planning to insert himself back into Hogwarts. It might simply have taken time to devise the Diary scheme, as well as additional experience with Horcruxes to fully grasp the theory behind what to expect when you put a piece of soul in with a bunch of memories.

If we look at the timeline, Voldemort likely did not turn the Diary into a Horcrux until fairly late. When Voldemort kills Hepzibah, he has only a trace of Horcrux damage (flashing red eyes) and the Ring is gone. When he visits Dumbledore 10 years later, he now has the Locket and the Cup, and his physical tranformation is about halfway towards "Voldemort classic." This suggests that he has another 2-3 to go. Also, this is the time where Voldemort now realizes that he is not getting back into Hogwarts quickly: he had honestly hoped to be allowed back in as a teacher. So, it would have been at this time that he realized that he needed careful planning to insert himself back into Hogwarts. It might simply have taken time to devise the Diary scheme, as well as additional experience with Horcruxes to fully grasp the theory behind what to expect when you put a piece of soul in with a bunch of memories.I agree that this would be the most logical time to implement a plan to sneak the diary into Hogwarts.

We have these facts as defined by Dumbledore:
1. Voldemort didn't trust anybody
2. Voldemort would have chosen objects which meant something to him
3. Voldemort would have been foolish to put more than one horcrux in the same location
4. Voldemort had no way of getting into Hogwarts once he had established himself as a threat, meaning forming Death Eaters, etc.

Voldemort took a chance of losing the horcrux by giving it to Malfoy. Voldemort also knew that Parseltongue was a rare ability and getting into the Chamber required parseltongue. He probably felt pretty confident that his diary could do exactly what he wanted it to do. He just didn't know that a kid named Harry Potter would foil his evil plot.

So, to bring this back around to the topic, Voldemort already planned to have a diary horcrux in Hogwarts. He would not have put a second one in the Room of Requirement.

So, to bring this back around to the topic, Voldemort already planned to have a diary horcrux in Hogwarts. He would not have put a second one in the Room of Requirement.Well done! Yes, Harry Potter actually requires a fair few lemmas (i.e., proofs within a proof), doesn't it? That is part of the appeal!

And SusanBones111 brings us back promptly to the point of the "digression." The idea that there is a Horcrux in the Room of Requirement works only if Voldemort had ample access to the room while he had the Horcrux in question. However, the only two items that Voldemort had prior to leaving school were not hidden there. Afterwards, Voldemort had such restricted access to Hogwarts that he was forced to resort to the Diary Plot to get something into Hogwarts.

This leaves the Room of Requirement a very unlikely place for Voldemort to have put a Horcrux. Even if it did fit his style, then he simply did not have access to it after he acquire the Cup or the Ravenclaw/Gryffindor item.

We should also remember that the Room of Requirement has been important to two consecutive plots. It might be better to retire that particular plot element at this point. Rowling has a healthy imagination: let's see something new!

Thanks for that I needed something to clear my head Potterwise though I'm surprised he truste Malfoy with something so precious to him. I wonder if Bellatrix was also entrusted with something similar?Now if only there was a spell to clear my head of this damn head cold.........

Thanks for that I needed something to clear my head Potterwise though I'm surprised he truste Malfoy with something so precious to him.This just shows us how desperate Voldemort was to get something into Hogwarts. Had Voldemort any capacity to do so himself, then he would not have used a middleman.

One other thing to keep in mind is that Voldemort really was not trusting Malfoy over much. Malfoy was to plant the Diary on a student, but Voldemort did not entrust any indication of what the Diary actually was, or what the real plan was. I suspect that this was common: something that appeared to be a "Death Eater" task (unseating Dumbledore, etc.) was, in part or in whole, a smokescreen for Voldemort's personal agendas.

Voldemort would be able to keep tabs on what happened: after all, it was something that caught the attention of the wizarding world, at least in England. Moreover, at the end of the plan, Malfoy himself would have little idea what had become of the Diary.

I wonder if Bellatrix was also entrusted with something similar?I think that the answer to this lies in a question: to what places of importance of Voldemort would Bellatrix have access that Voldemort did not? Malfoy had access to Hogwarts, which Voldemort clearly did not. Indeed, given her insane fanaticism, it is quite possible that Bellatrix was open in her support of Voldemort. After all, there seems to have been no question about her being a Death Eater (unlike, say, Barty Crouch Jr. or Lucius Malfoy).

The other thing is that Voldemort likely would do this only if Bellatrix (or any other middle person) had no idea what became of the object in the end. It is not enough that she does not know that it is a Horcrux: she has to not know where the Cup or whatever finally came to rest.

Now if only there was a spell to clear my head of this damn head cold.........Antihistomino!

I'll bill you....

Pardon my muzziness - your spell didn't work - yet...

However wasn't it Bella in the Chaptere of Spinner's End who was bragging that the Dark Lord had entrusted her with something - I can't remember her exact words - and he did take her with him when he was fleeing the Ministry of Magic place after his run-in with Albus so I suppose that must account for something. I wonder.........?

Sorry this is a bit off topic and maybe should be in the Hunting Horcrux part I think.

However wasn't it Bella in the Chaptere of Spinner's End who was bragging that the Dark Lord had entrusted her with something - I can't remember her exact words - and he did take her with him when he was fleeing the Ministry of Magic place after his run-in with Albus so I suppose that must account for something. I wonder.........?Yes, Bellatrix did say that. However, Dumbledore stresses that all of the Death Eaters think the same thing as Bellatrix does, and that they all are deluded.

Bellatrix did not know about the Prophecy, and it seems that she did not even know that Voldemort was a half-blood. So, she's nowhere near as well informed as she tells herself.

Sorry this is a bit off topic and maybe should be in the Hunting Horcrux part I think.Perhaps, but if one thinks that Voldemort used Bellatrix to get a Horcrux into the Room of Requirement, then it is worth considering this. Voldemort would never actually trust Bellatrix with knowing where something important to him was. He did not do so with Lucius, after all: Lucius was going to have no idea where that Diary in the near future, had life gone as planned!


Sorry that my spell did not work...... :cool:

Ah well... you can't win them all....

However the fact that Voldemort doesn't seem to be able to trust anyone might be a factor in helping Harry with his downfall.

It seems strange he asked Draco to get the DE's into Hogwarts and then didn't take advantage of Draco's succession carrying out his mission and pay Albus and Harry a visit himself. He could have finished them both off up in the Tower and that would be that. So the question is why didn't he take advantage of the entrypoint in the RoR. It doesn't make sense unless Voldemort isn't as smart as he thinks he is. If he didn't think Draco would succeed then I can understand it but then the DE's knew to turn up and surely one of them would have notified Voldemort of the success of the plan?

How would Voldermort find the ROR? As he was fond of taking things belonging to other people he did he stop and change his personally when he came to Hogwarts? I don't think so. He just needed a safer place to hide the stolen articals, then in his room like he did at the orphanage.
Accidentally most likely, like Harry did when hiding his book or hidding the sherry bottles. discovering a room full of old and discarded books and other treasures.
How else could Riddle come know so much? discovering the chamber and about Horcuxes and what people were doing. It seemd he knew about the spell but not how it worked. What else did he discover in the room? A treasure to try out the horcux spell something belonging to one of the founders in the room? I believe that the other hurcuxes were made after he left school and he had to leave one there in the room. Hidden away like Harry's book. he would also need the room to learn (read the books) and practice the new dark and banned spells he found in the books. As DD was keeping a extra eye out for Tom after the Hargid got expelled and the chamber was opened. Cos was closed to him.
As Tom was just a prefect not yet head boy and with DD keeping an extra watch on Tom.. He keeping his nose clean. but he would still have excess to the room. couldn't be found with anything in his dorm room or be round the entrance to COS. that only leaves the ROR.

That still doesn't answer my question as to why he didh't take advantage of Draco's success with the RoR cabinet etc and come into Hogwarts with the DE's and finish off Albus and Harry in the tower.

I don't think he asked Draco to get the Death Eater into the school. It was Draco plan to use the cabinet. Voldermort's mission to Draco was not to get them in but for Draco to Kill DD any way he could. knowing and or hoping Draco would fail and time was running out for Draco. And there was not much time between the Cabinet working and knowing DD was leaving to set Draco's plan in motion. Getting back up to who ever was around in that short of time. Maybe he would have come if there was more time and he knew about the cabinet working and had been there when Draco asked for help of the Death eaters.

BUT Voldemort kept in contact with his DE's and I presume they would be able to contact him with any information he required then why didn't at least one of them tell him that there was a way into Hogwarts via the cabinet in the RoR? If they omitted to tell him then he won't be too pleased with them for neglecting to tell him and thus rob him of an opportunity to finish off Albus and Harry. My only answer to this is that maybe the DE's can't contact Voldemort whenever they want but have to wait for him to contact them. I wonder how he does this? Apparition to wherever they are - unexpected visits - or something along the lines of the Order of the Phoenix - except not patronuses as Voldemort most likely doesn't have any particularly happy moments to conjour up one. Unless of course he gets kicks out of other peoples terror and misery (which he has caused) and THAT makes him happy.

What really worries me is that nobody seems to have gone into the RoR and disabled this cabinet and that it could still enable other unwanted intruders (including Voldemort) to get into Hogwarts. Can anyone enlighten me as to whether or not something has been done about the cabinet or not?

I don't think they just left the vanishing cabinet in the room of requirement for God and everybody to come waltzing through from wherever the other one is currently. But who knows? Maybe the trio will head back through it and find something out. I doubt a bunch of Death Eaters departed from Borgin & Burkes, so maybe the second cabinet has found it's way to some important location. Doubt it though.

As for Voldemort passing on the opportunity to head back to Hogwarts and finish Dumbledore and Harry himself - why bother? That's why he has Death Eaters. And Harry was hidden anyway. The Death Eaters weren't after him anyway, he belongs to the Dark Lord. They just wanted to get Dumbledore out of the way, and Voldemort would want to give Draco the opportunity to succeed or fail in that charge, one way or another.

As to the idea that there might be a horcrux in the room or requirement still: I personally don't think so. But, there is one possible scenario that Wimsey hasn't shot holes in... so here you go.

Tom Riddle had murdered 3 people prior to leaving Hogwarts. That means, if he had the knowledge and items to create multiple horcruxes, he could feasibly have made a total of 3 prior to finishing school. We know he had the diary and ring by that point. We also know he didn't yet have the cup or locket, having obtained them while working at B&B's. Is it not possible, that Tom Riddle found, during his extensive searches of the school and grounds, a Ravenclaw relic which became a horcrux prior to his leaving school? If he had, access to the school would be a non-issue. He was Head Boy in his 7th year and had free reign of the halls - ample opportunity to hide a horcrux anywhere he wanted.

As he could not risk opening the Chamber of Secrets while still at school, Dumbledore keeping an annoyingly close watch on him, and the idea that the diary was intended to end up in the Chamber ultimately anyway - it seems unlikely he'd have hidden a Ravenclaw item there. As for the ideas being bandied about regarding the Room of Requirement - again, I doubt he'd hide one there, but - the argument about the Voldemort exclusive access room is easilly explained away. The magic of the room doesn't work like that. It's Jo's world - we're just reading in it. She makes the rules and that's all it would take whether we like it or not.

We've already seen the room that appears when people need to hide something - graffitied potions books, empty booze bottles, fiendish plots to secretly enter the school and murder the head master). If Voldemort tried to hide a horcrux in the room, my money is on it being in this room that pops up - regardless of what that says about his character's tenacity, intellect or judgment - or Jo's writing for that matter. The magic of the room, as we've all seen, has limitations and rules - i.e. Harry has to know that the room is or is used for before he can get in to it. Ravenclaw designed the castle's floorplan - stands to reason this room is clever enough to avoid allowing things like a room only Voldy can get into. It'd be sort of like the Gryffindor sword coming out of the hat, or the charm on the mirror protecting the stone in book one. There's precident to spare as far as enchantments having limits.

I'm confident we'll head back into the room again - if only to get the potions book - but i don't think there's really a horcrux there. I like the idea that Voldemort might have used the banned books to learn a little something about dark magic and maybe horcruxes while still at school. He does tell Slughorn he came across the term "horcrux" while reading - so, perhaps.

However we must remember the room appeared to Albus when he wanted a toilet - it was full of chamberpots remember and I seem to remember him telling Harry he stumbled across it once and has never found it again. Maybe this is becuase he hasn't wanted a toilet since either but then we don't know if similar circumstances didn't happen to Tom Riddle either.

You say Tm Riddle had committed three murders before leaving Hogwarts and so maybe at least one of the three horcruxes he could have made are still in Hogwarts somewhere perhaps in a room he couldn't seem to find again?

But as some found the room many times. The come and go room as the Elfs know it. Could each room one requires be Made from the elfs ,students or teachers, need to hide or told to store. need a broom closet or hide a drunk elf to sleep it off. or what ever contents one requires must already be there.
or what ever you want to become but the contents must be already be there. just shorted and sized into each room requriements form a bigger store room or the hidding room to the room required.

That still doesn't answer my question as to why he didh't take advantage of Draco's success with the RoR cabinet etc and come into Hogwarts with the DE's and finish off Albus and Harry in the tower.I don't think he knew the details of Draco's plan. And if he did, it would be too dangerous for him to go to Hogwarts. Voldemort lets his minions take the dangerous jobs.

If that is the case then Voldemort is a bigger fool than I thought as he passed up a perfect chance to finish off both Albus and Harry. I'm pretty sure that if Snape is bad that he informed Voldemort about Albus withered hand even if he didn't know the reason why. This makes me think that if he was too cowardly to go to Hogwarts because it was too dangerous for him then he is unaware of Albus hand meaning that Snape hasn't told him and might therefore be good. It's just a shame that if Snape is good that he couldn't find out what Draco was really up to with the cabinet in the room.

So many questions and options - it's making my head spin... oh that's just the bad head cold I have - time for bed I think....

However we must remember the room appeared to Albus when he wanted a toilet - it was full of chamberpots remember and I seem to remember him telling Harry he stumbled across it once and has never found it again. Maybe this is becuase he hasn't wanted a toilet since either but then we don't know if similar circumstances didn't happen to Tom Riddle either.

You say Tm Riddle had committed three murders before leaving Hogwarts and so maybe at least one of the three horcruxes he could have made are still in Hogwarts somewhere perhaps in a room he couldn't seem to find again?

Dumbledore was likely hinting about it's existence for our and Hary's benefit. He knew about the room when the DA was practicing in it - after the fact if not before or during. Harry even told him that's where Draco was hatching his plan. One must assume he was aware of the room's magic. If the house elves know, I have to believe that Dumbledore does.

And if Tom had probed deeper into the mysteries and secrets of Hogwarts than most any other student, It wouldn't be too big a leap to assume he'd known about the room and it's magic. After all, Harry, the elves, Dumbledore, Trelawney and other faculty, all the DA members and Draco know about it now. Hardly even seems a secret any more.

He had committed 3 murders prior to finishing school and so had soul fragments to spare. It's not unreasonable to suspect that he could have found a Ravenclaw relic while still at school. If he had, and he had also learned to create horcruxes - he would have whatever time after that horcrux was created, prior to completing his 7th year, to hide it in Hogwarts without looking suspiciously out of place.

I personally don't think there is a horcrux in there or that he found Ravenclaw item prior to leaving school - but the possibility exists, however unlikely.

Maybe Voldermort had more access to Hogwarts than we realize via the Vanishing Cabinets. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm going to throw out some things from memory without my books handy.

- Voldemort worked at Borgin & Burkes for some time after he attended Hogwarts.
- SS/PS Harry Potter hid inside the (vanishing?) cabinet inside Borgin & Burkes to avoid the Malfoys & the clerk. I don't remember if he closed the door all the way.
- COS when Filch dragged Harry to his office to write him up because Harry was muddy after a quidditch practice, Sir Nicholas persuades Peeves to drop the (vanishing?) cabinet over Filch's office to help Harry get off.
- OoTP, Fred/George stuffed a member of the Inquisitorial Squad into the broken vanishing cabinet. I don't remember which Slytherin it was, but he had to apparate out of the cabinet.
-HBP, Malfoy figures out that the broken cabinet is the pair to the cabinet at B&B.

We don't know if the vanishing cabinet was at B&B when Voldermort worked there and we currently don't know where it is. Maybe the vanishing cabinet was only a plot device for Draco to use in HBP. If that is the case I give Rowling a lot of credit for integrating the cabinet into multiple stories in very creative and subtle way. However, would it be such a stretch for Harry to realize that the cabinet was in B&B , Voldermort did work there, and he may have had more access to Hogwarts after he was a student than we realize? The vanishing cabinet does seem to circumvent the protections surrounding Hogwarts.

As far as what Dumbledore can do when he is keeping an "eye" on students at Hogwarts is up for speculation. It does seem that there are areas of the school that Dumbledore cannot penetrate with his seeing eye. Dumbledore as teacher and headmaster could not locate the Chamber of Secrets. Along the same lines, the Marauder's map cannot find Malfoy when he supposedly was in the Room or Requirement. If Fred/George had the Marauder's map in their possession when Ginny was taken in the Chamber, I'm sure they would have tried to use it to find her. The map may not have worked because the Marauders didn't know about the chamber or the RoR. However, it does seem on some level that there are places within Hogwarts that you can be hidden from others.

It may be a stretch, but could have Voldemort used the vanishing cabinets to enter Hogwarts undetected and used the Room of Requirement (or more likely the Chamber of Secrets) for his own purposes? I contend that it is possible, but probably unlikely. This is just speculation on my part and I'm not sure if there is enough in canon to support this theory.

However the fact that Voldemort doesn't seem to be able to trust anyone might be a factor in helping Harry with his downfall.Well, Dumbledore stresses that Harry's ability to love is his strength. Harry is going after Voldemort with two trusted friends. We should not be surprised if his semi-exgirlfriend and possibly Neville and Luna join him. Harry's ability to love and its reciprocation in different capacities will no doubt aid Harry greatly.

Voldemort's inability to love, which extends to his inability to trust anyone, is his one greatest weakness. If he could trust anybody, then he could use the Fidelius Charm to hide his Horcruxes. However, he does not trust them enough to tell them and then kill them, preserving the secret forever!

BUT Voldemort kept in contact with his DE's and I presume they would be able to contact him with any information he required then why didn't at least one of them tell him that there was a way into Hogwarts via the cabinet in the RoR?Given how paranoid Voldemort is, the lines of communication probably are one-way. Voldemort contacts his DEs.

Also, I would doubt that the other DEs knew Draco's plans prior to that night. It is clear that Draco was very concerned that he and he alone get credit for this deed. It also is clear that there is little unity among the Death Eaters: they try to one up each other in Voldemort's eyes all the time. "You won't be the favorite anymore" as Draco taunts Snape.....

So, I would bet that Voldemort found out how Draco did it that night. Draco probably did not even want to tell Voldemort: otherwise, one would think that Draco could have gotten better advice on how to fix the Cabinet! (Narcissa implies that Voldemort intends Draco to fail, anyway.)

What really worries me is that nobody seems to have gone into the RoR and disabled this cabinet and that it could still enable other unwanted intruders (including Voldemort) to get into Hogwarts. Can anyone enlighten me as to whether or not something has been done about the cabinet or not?There is no reason to think that the cabinets were not removed and disabled. Harry explained what happened to the members of the Order: barring an idiot plot, they removed the other cabinet from Borgin & Burkes. Indeed, one would expect Borgin to have cooperated quite fully to avoid being tarred with the same brush.

Remember, Rowling was still smarting from the negative reviews of Order: she was not going to bog-down the denouement of Prince with a lot of details. Remember also that this is a single protagonist story: we read what goes through Harry's mind, only. He would not have been involved directly with this, so we would not have read about it. Even then, we might not read it: Rowling did not bother to write how Harry recovered his map, after all. It was, in her opinion, a needless detail.


It may be a stretch, but could have Voldemort used the vanishing cabinets to enter Hogwarts undetected and used the Room of Requirement (or more likely the Chamber of Secrets) for his own purposes? I contend that it is possible, but probably unlikely. This is just speculation on my part and I'm not sure if there is enough in canon to support this theory.The canon contradicts this. If Voldemort had access, then he should have acted as Inkling suggests. That is, he should have used it to get into the castle to do things like open the Chamber of Secrets. Instead, he had to resort to having Malfoy act the middleman (something that is very out-of-character for Voldemort, and thus a sign of some desperation). Also, Voldemort should have used this to attempt to assassinate Dumbledore. However, we have no indication that this happened. Remember that Voldemort wanted "big" murders for making Horcruxes: and what could be bigger than assassinating the one wizard that he truly fears?

Hagrid assures Harry in Stone that Hogwarts is even safer than is Gringotts, and that Voldemort was never able to attack it. This makes the idea that he knew about the Cabinets very unlikely: Voldemort should have taken advantage of it.

(Keep in mind that we have no idea when the Vanishing Cabinets turned up, and thus no reason to think that Voldemort knew about them.)

interesting editorial, i actually thought the cup might be in there from my first reading of the book, although i am not sure what prompted this idea. anyway, it's nice to hear that someone else is thinking along the same lines as i am.

OK then the RoR seems to be ruled out by those who IMO have more logic than us (however in my case have had less wines to drink than me) but Wimsey seems to be thinking along my lines in a less inebriated way (just joking) . I think that Jo has made a few errors that we have unintentionally stumbled on - hence the discrepancies we find in the story.

This RoR could be one of them.....

but Wimsey seems to be thinking along my lines in a less inebriated way (just joking) .I will take that for high praise!

And, kids at home: never drive while drinking cold medicine. Become a pop star and you get your cold medicine for free. :cool:

This RoR could be one of them.....The cruel truth is that no matter what Rowling does (did), there will be people who think that she has made some large plot holes. Let's say that, in the end, Rowling tells us that Voldemort never discovered the Room. There will be those who will say that this is a plot-hole because Voldemort should have known. Of course, it really would not be: there always is some element of chance, and nothing in the plots requires that Voldemort know about the Room. Nothing in the plots require that Draco have informed him about it or anything like that. These things could be true, or they could be false.

Indeed, in the absence of any evidence that Voldemort knew about the Room, I would think that the "could be false" is more probable than the "could be true." Sure, Voldemort learned a lot about the Castle: but all the time he spent learning about things like the Chamber, and then trying to find information about immortality means that he had less time to stumble upon the RoR.

I often wonder how he found out about the whereabouts of the Chamber and I wonder if he found out about the RoR as many students seem to know about it and got into the room and found something which pointed him in the direction of the entrance to the Chamber - something Slytherin left behind giving him a hint - or two......

I often wonder how he found out about the whereabouts of the Chamber and I wonder if he found out about the RoR as many students seem to know about itActually, very few students seem to know about it. Fred & George did not know about it, for example: they thought that it was a place to hide from Filch and never paid it much mind. There is no indication that the Marauders learned of it. It becomes well known in Harry's time because of the DA, but it does not seem like any of the DA students knew about it save F&G thinking that it was a convenient hiding place.

Indeed, it would take a bit of luck for a student to realize what the room was: the few who found it would think that it was for the one need that they had at that time. They would need to accidentally spring it for something completely new to have a chance to work out what it was.

and got into the room and found something which pointed him in the direction of the entrance to the Chamber - something Slytherin left behind giving him a hint - or two......This is possible, but I think that a simpler explanation is that he hit on the idea of using parseltongue as the key. That is what opened the tap. It is possible that he read somewhere that Slytherin used this ploy: Voldemort was obsessed with the history of the founders and with Slytherin especially, after all.

Also, Voldemort probably rapidly realized that the Chamber would have to be underground. Therefore, he would have been looking for things connected to the bowels of Hogwarts. Bathrooms, with their pipes, would have been a very sensible place to look. The 7th floor would not have been!

I think if Jo was to write another book connected to this series it should be Hogwarts a History. That would answer a lot of questions and would make very interesting reading.

Funny - I was under the impression quite a few people knew about the RoR as nobody seemed surprised it exists. How did those who used it find out about it in the first place?

I think those who knew about it found it by coinsidence.
Everyone need somewhere to hide/do something, and suddenly, there's the room.. So I think only a few people really know that it's there, and those who have been there once by coinsidence might not find it again, either (they go back, but now there's no door). Therefore, just a few people know about the RoR purpose, and how to find it! Surely, the entire DA know about it, though..

Actually, very few students seem to know about it. Fred & George did not know about it, for example: they thought that it was a place to hide from Filch and never paid it much mind. There is no indication that the Marauders learned of it. It becomes well known in Harry's time because of the DA, but it does not seem like any of the DA students knew about it save F&G thinking that it was a convenient hiding place.
Harry found out from Dobby and passed it on to a bunch of people, but the Weasley twins prove it can be found without prior knowledge. I don't know that riddle was looking for more mischief than the twins, but he was looking for secrets and traces of magic - and he was extremely clever. Seems he may have worked it out for himself where others failed. Plus many faculty members knew about it. Dumbledore mentioned it as the chamber pot room and Trelawney uses it regularly. If Riddle is a star pupil charming his way into the hearts of his teachers, and has Slughorn guessing where he gets his info about business at the school, it's possible he heard about the room from one of them. I think Dumbledore's reference was more a hint than a random musing about the undiscovered secrets of the school myself.
Also, Voldemort probably rapidly realized that the Chamber would have to be underground. Therefore, he would have been looking for things connected to the bowels of Hogwarts. Bathrooms, with their pipes, would have been a very sensible place to look. The 7th floor would not have been!
The entrance is in a girl's bathroom on the second floor - hardly underground. And the catacombs hiding the stone in book one were accessed from the 3rd floor. If they're accessing tunnels beneath the school from that high up, doesn't seem too far a stretch that there could be one from the 7th.

Besides, he was looking for more than just the Chamber while at Hogwarts. Dumbledore speculated he'd like to come back to search for more secrets and stores of untapped magic. It took him most of his student career to find the Chamber - and to do that he resorted to searching a ladies room. You really think he wouldn't have exausted all other possible points of entry that being caught in wouldn't tarnish his glowing reputation as the perfect prefect?

That's true. I think for Tom to find the entrance in the Girls toilets on the second floor when there are probably toilets for both girls and boys on each floor would have meant he was really searching Hogwarts pretty thoroughly. What I'm getting at is that the girls toilets on the second floor being used as the entrance to the Chamber seem to me to be quite and unlikely place and surely Tom wouldn't have thought of this place as his first choice. There would have been many other locations that would have been just as likely as entrances to the Chamber - UNLESS he found out something from some other source which pointed him in the right direction.

All in all I think Tom would have found out about the RoR during his exploration of Hogwarts and it is possible he found out more information than the location of the Chamber there too.

Harry found out from Dobby and passed it on to a bunch of people, but the Weasley twins prove it can be found without prior knowledge. True. My point was that even though they had found the Room, they had no idea what it was. Finding the room is one (improbable) thing: working out what it does is another altogether!

I don't know that riddle was looking for more mischief than the twins, but he was looking for secrets and traces of magic - and he was extremely clever.

Plus many faculty members knew about it.All of this is possible. However, it is using a bunch of "maybes": there still is no evidence that Voldemort knew about the room. Now, is the statement that Voldemort might have known about the room true? Sure: but that "might" is pretty small.


The entrance is in a girl's bathroom on the second floor - hardly underground.Not underground, but near ground. Moreover, it fit the second criterion quite well: it had things (pipes) connected to the undergraound.

You really think he wouldn't have exausted all other possible points of entry that being caught in wouldn't tarnish his glowing reputation as the perfect prefect?Well, remember, Dumbledore did keep an annoyingly close eye on Voldemort after the Chamber. So, yes, Voldemort was limited.

Incidentally, I was listening to the "Voldemort's Requests" chapter yesterday. When Voldemort got to Dumbledore's office, Voldemort still had snow on his cloak. This indicates that he did not waste much time between getting into the castle and getting to Dumbledore, which really hurts the idea that he went to the Room straight away. Given that Dumbledore tacitly reminds Voldemort that he is being watched and that Dumbledore explicitly tells Voldemort that he does not trust Voldemort, it seems unlikely that Voldemort went there afterwards, either.


All in all I think Tom would have found out about the RoR during his exploration of Hogwarts and it is possible he found out more information than the location of the Chamber there too.I still consider it improbable given that he was searching for the Chamber, and that the Room of Requirement is simply not anyplace someone looking for the Chamber would be. The time Voldemort had to spend searching for the Chamber decreases the probabilty that he found the RoR, not the other way around!

But how did he know there was a Chamber in the first place? Was this a myth/rumour that had been going around for years or was it written up in Hogwarts A History? Did Professor Binns talk about it in his Histroy of Magic classes? Did he read about it in the restricted section of the library at Hogwarts or what?

I think that while looking for the Chamber he was more likely to stumble across the RoR.

But how did he know there was a Chamber in the first place? Was this a myth/rumour that had been going around for years or was it written up in Hogwarts A History? Did Professor Binns talk about it in his Histroy of Magic classes? Did he read about it in the restricted section of the library at Hogwarts or what?This is a good question. My guess is that Voldemort heard about it either when learning about Slytherin

I think that while looking for the Chamber he was more likely to stumble across the RoR.Well, let's never mind this part: we clearly take opposite views! Instead, let us look at Rowling's style. She always leaves clues to things that would be important. However, when Voldemort tells Harry about finding the Chamber, he says absolutely nothing that hints to the Room of Requirement being important to finding the Chamber. Rowling would have done this: because that would have allowed Harry to later get the brainwave and realize that the Diary Voldemort had provided him with a clue about another place important to him.

So, Rowling had her chance to provide Harry with information that might seem so innocuous (or even incomprehensible to a 12 year old) that one would understand why Harry did not mention it to Dumbledore. So, Harry would have clue that Dumbledore never did have, and we thus could get an explanation once Harry figured it out: the 17 year old Harry would simply tell Ron & Hermione that he didn't think that he mentioned that part to Dumbledore because it did not seem important and it slipped his mind with all of the other events (e.g., getting bitten by a whomping big snake, etc.)

However, Rowling did not do this. Throughout the series, Rowling's resolutions always explain things that we read, not things that might have happened. She is very deliberate abou this (even if she is also very clever at making things unobvious). Well, she had a great chance to slip in an unobvious detail here: but she did not do it. Instead, it is all "maybe." Rowling has never used a "maybe" yet: I would be very disappointed if she did now!

Voldermort searching for the chamber? While was he spent most of the time looking for signs of who his parents were. I mean it took him till his 5th 0r 6th year to find the chamber as he was a perfect. I think it more likely that he would be trying to hide things taken from other students (bulling trophies) when found the room of requriement. More then likely in his first year. Found the room in the same shape as Harry did when trying to hide his potions book.
Not knowing who his parents were. Not knowing he was heir or had any Slythein blood in him till he knew who were his parents and whos side were magical. Where he came from, his history of who he was.
Most that did know Tom and were willing to talk about him of his years at school said he was obsess with finding out his magical linage. So the myth of the chamber that only a heir could open it wouldn't have occour to him, till he found out who he was.
Opening of the chamber and wanting to stay the summer and the deaths of the Riddles all seem to happen the same year already calling himself Lord Vordermort to his gang But he was already a very talented student. I would say he knew far to much for his own good and not just learned from the school libary but from a secret libary we know as the room of requirement. That is where he found out about who he was, the chamber and horcux spell and who knows what other dark spells or strong magical objects he found in his secret libary. His wanting to stay as a teacher after his 7th year and wanting to come back to the school. Something powerfull keeps drawing him back to the school as there are many more secrets to be discovered. What and where were the secrets he discovered already.
Where would the first place Lord Voldermort would go, to discover more of the hidden dark secrets and hidden powerfull magical objects in Hogwarts?

That is a possibility as weren't there a lot of old books there? Yes god knows what evil stuff he found out about there. Maybe Harry will find the same stuff along with antidotes for some of it. Here will need Hermione's help for the antidotes.

Voldermort searching for the chamber? While was he spent most of the time looking for signs of who his parents were.Actually, Hogwarts, a History mentions the Chamber. The simplest explanation is that Voldemort learned of it there.

I mean it took him till his 5th 0r 6th year to find the chamber as he was a perfect. I think it more likely that he would be trying to hide things taken from other students (bulling trophies) when found the room of requriement. Voldemort had been busted already by Dumbledore, and Dumbledore warned Voldemort that thieving would not be tolerated at Hogwarts. At any rate, Voldemort had a better place to hide things from Dumbledore: Dumbledore would not have had access to the Sltyerhin chambers!

I would say he knew far to much for his own good and not just learned from the school libary but from a secret libary we know as the room of requirement.There is no evidence of a "secret library" in the Room of Requirement! Remember, Harry recognizes some of the things in that room as having come from elsewhere in the building. We have no reason to think that this was not the case with the DADA books.

Where would the first place Lord Voldermort would go, to discover more of the hidden dark secrets and hidden powerfull magical objects in Hogwarts?But there is no evidence that Voldemort knows about it. Surely Rowling would have provided some if this were to be the case.

That is a possibility as weren't there a lot of old books there? Yes god knows what evil stuff he found out about there. Maybe Harry will find the same stuff along with antidotes for some of it. Here will need Hermione's help for the antidotes.As there is the no evidence that Voldemort ever learned of the place, there most likely answer is "no evil stuff at all!" Indeed, if the room could provide all sorts of evil things, then why did not Draco (who clearly understood what the Room could do) use the room to get such things instead of resorting to having mead and a necklace snuck into the school? This suggests that the Room could provide these sorts of things. Prince showed us that the Room is not infinitely malleable!

Indeed, if Voldemort knew about the RoR, then why did he not tell Lucius about it at some point? Lucius would have told Draco, yet Draco discovered the room because of Harry.

Rowling has used the room as a plot-device in two straight novels. She has provided no indication that this room is at all important to Voldemort or that Voldemort had any knowledge of it. The only two objects that became Horcruxes while Voldemort had access to the room (about which, insofar as we can see, he did not even know) are destroyed and were not hidden there. So, unless she is deviating seriously from her plotting style (including by having Dumbledore be very wrong about many things), she would have done so if it was to be so important.

Tom Riddle Jr was a very secretive and like to bully people and took things as bullying trophies are you suggesting his personally changed because of Dumbledore. As he could charm those around him. . But even Dumblerdore couldn't keep an eye on him all the time. after the chamber was open didn't Dumbledore keep an extra eye on him? Therefore Tom wanted to stay over the summer free range of the school. but there was a killer lose in the school. As we don't know if he stayed or not that summer? After the a suspect was found and convicted on Tom's knowledge.
Where could he learn and practice the dark arts? Like where the DA learned and practiced. As Tom new so many of the dark arts that were not taught at the school where did he learn and parctice all those dark spells? That he could kill the Riddles and use of a memory charm on his uncle. How did the get to his Grandfathers place that summer so many unanswer questions. by 16.
But I still believe that Tom would have found the room and the thousands and thousands of books, no doubt banned or graffitied or stolen .(pge 492) and mountains of other forbidden items There is no sign that he stopped or changed his character of bullying and thieving he just hide it better being very secretive and could be very charming when he needed to be.
Couldn't prove it all that happened when Tom was at school. But Dumbledore was suspicious of him. He did gather a gang around him. Much like Duddly's. And like Duddly's second bed room the room of requirement is a dumping ground for discarded items. but we do know that the room contained stacks of banned books. A treasure-trove of learning to someone that inclined.

Actually given the suspicions Albus had about Tom Riddle right from the start (the ophanage when Tom was 10-11) then I'm a little bit disappointed that he hadn't cottoned onto to the fact that Tom was't quite the 'good' student he was meant to be. This I think wa one of the great mistakes Albus made in the firsrt place even if he doesn't make them often..........

Tom Riddle Jr was a very secretive and like to bully people and took things as bullying trophies are you suggesting his personally changed because of Dumbledore.Yes, Voldemort knew that Dumbledore was watching him, and he also wanted to impress the other teachers. So, Voldemort clearly modified his behavior: none of the teachers held him in the disdain that Ms. Cole did.

As Tom new so many of the dark arts that were not taught at the school where did he learn and parctice all those dark spells? That he could kill the Riddles and use of a memory charm on his uncle. How did the get to his Grandfathers place that summer so many unanswer questions. by 16.Snape knew many curses before he even came to school. Voldemort was surrounded by many young wizards and witches from old families. That is an obvious source for him to learn things.

But I still believe that Tom would have found the room and the thousands and thousands of books, no doubt banned or graffitied or stolen .(pge 492) and mountains of other forbidden itemsBut that is, as you state, just a belief. There is no evidence for it. Rowling provides no clues at all that Voldemort ever found the room. Rowling always leaves clues.

but we do know that the room contained stacks of banned books. A treasure-trove of learning to someone that inclined.Actually, we do not know that: Harry surmised that the books must have been graffitied or banned: he did not actually look at them to learn what they were. At any rate, Rowling has provided no evidence that Voldemort got any information from this room, and that just is not her style.

Actually given the suspicions Albus had about Tom Riddle right from the start (the ophanage when Tom was 10-11) then I'm a little bit disappointed that he hadn't cottoned onto to the fact that Tom was't quite the 'good' student he was meant to be. This I think wa one of the great mistakes Albus made in the firsrt place even if he doesn't make them often..........Yes and no. Dumbledore resolved to give Voldemort a chance. Voldemort did not do anything overt: there were no reports of him bullying or stealing, or acting like he had done at the orphanage. Voldemort was too clever and subtle to make those mistakes again.

Still, Dumbledore never truly trusted Voldemort, and he did suspect that Voldemort was responsible for things like the opening of the Chamber of Secrets. There just was not sufficient hard evidence to "convict," it seems.

If nothing else, then it is clear that Dumbledore never had any evidence that the Room was important to Voldemort.

i like the Dudley's room/RoR thing :) they do sound connected, actually. In Dudley's room, there are all his goods he used to make bad or silly things.

Yes, Voldemort knew that Dumbledore was watching him, and he also wanted to impress the other teachers. So, Voldemort clearly modified his behavior: none of the teachers held him in the disdain that Ms. Cole did. yes modified but did not change his behavior of bullying and theiving. charmed his teaches there were rumors but nothing proven.. Even Dunbledore didn't know who really open the chamber till Harry found out.
keeping an eye out is not constantly watching him.

Snape knew many curses before he even came to school. Voldemort was surrounded by many young wizards and witches from old families. That is an obvious source for him to learn things.
but Tom didn't have the background he was raised in the muggle world. So how could he impess other to join him. teach them new ways. To keep the type of people he gather around him. He was the leader of the his gang not a hanger on picking up thing from other people.

But that is, as you state, just a belief. There is no evidence for it. Rowling provides no clues at all that Voldemort ever found the room. Rowling always leaves clues.
As with many theroies.. and where is the evidence that Voldermort was good and changed his charter because Dumbledore was watching him he still managed to opened the chamber and killed a few people at 16. and gather a gang the pre-runner of the Death eathers. But is was said that Voldermort did discover many more secrets of Hogwarts then any other student. And if Harry is marked as a equal then we might surmise then what Harry discovers Tom/ Voldermort has already discovered.


Actually, we do not know that: Harry surmised that the books must have been graffitied or banned: he did not actually look at them to learn what they were. At any rate, Rowling has provided no evidence that Voldemort got any information from this room, and that just is not her style.

Then where did he get all the information and learned and practice all those dark spells that even the death Eater didn't know as Tom was very secretive and didn't like to share. or have very close friends just followers to be given orders to. where else in the books could Tom have learn those things? not the chamber it self because where did he learn how to open it where to look and knowing so much of the dark arts and banned knowledge. Not in the school libary or from his followers. This was his power not to be shared. So the only place that we do know about that has thousand of books beside the school libary is. and a place to practice those skills out of sight and knowledge of others is.
don't forget that the room was first mention at christmass dinner passing dinner conversation.. big clue little mention in more then one book. a few lines.. clue thousands of banned book and mountain of other forbidden junk.


Yes and no. Dumbledore resolved to give Voldemort a chance. Voldemort did not do anything overt: there were no reports of him bullying or stealing, or acting like he had done at the orphanage. Voldemort was too clever and subtle to make those mistakes again.

Still, Dumbledore never truly trusted Voldemort, and he did suspect that Voldemort was responsible for things like the opening of the Chamber of Secrets. There just was not sufficient hard evidence to "convict," it seems.

If nothing else, then it is clear that Dumbledore never had any evidence that the Room was important to Voldemort.

Nor did anybody else know what Tom did while at school. Tom did use his considerable charm on the other teachers. Most felt sorry and though highly of the talented good looking orphan. but there were rumors of thing going on in the school while Tom was there. He did gather a gang of faithfull followers.
Most did not know what Tom was up to. He did manage too pass the blame of the chamber on to someone else.
So we realy don't know what Tom did at school. Just the rumors of the things that couldn't be proven. But I don't think he changed his personally just modified and nothing overt but I believe he still keeped doing those thing of bullying and theiving and sneeking around the school on his own.
Voldermort is to much like Duddy able to con his parents/teaches into believing what he wants them to believe. while he dose his own things.

I agree that Rowling hasn't dropped any obvious clues that Riddle/Voldermort knew of the ROR. However, I would like to believe that he did.

We haven't been given any insight (yet) where Riddle praticed his dark arts while still in school. We know that Snape is a half-blood so it is possible that he had access to the magical world before he came to Hogwarts. However, Riddle didn't. But Riddle was charming, so we can guess that he could have gotten permission from a teacher to get a book out of the restricted section. We've already seen Hermione do this with Lockhart.

So based on what has been written Rowling has given us 3 ways a student can get books out of the library. 1) Normal books can be checked out. 2) Restricted books need a teacher's permission. 3) The ROR can provide the books for you.

We still have the question of where do you learn/practice the Avada Kedavra spell when you aren't a qualfied wizard. Fake Moody tells DADA class that even if the whole class tried to AK him, they would barely hurt him. Riddle/Voldemort certainly enjoys cruelty, so maybe AK was as easy for him as flying on a broom is for Harry. Maybe the answer is as simple as the Chamber of Secrets. We've already seen a lot of rodent bones in the chamber. We might assume the Basilisk was eating the rats, but it is possible that Riddle was practicing on them.

Still, I like the idea of ROR holding 1 more secret that will be helpful to Harry.

yes modified but did not change his behavior of bullying and theiving. Again, Dumbledore says otherwise, and he kept an ear and eye out for such things in the young Voldemort.
keeping an eye out is not constantly watching him. No, but constant surveillance is not necessary. If Dumbledore kept an eye on Voldemort, then that should have been adequate. Remember, an act of theft or bullying is not an instantaneous one: reports of the theft and bullying get out. Thus, ccasional surveillance is all that is needed to identify theft and bullying. However, nothing that could really be traced back to Voldemort really happened. Voldemort is a very subtle individual, and thievery & bullying are not subtle behaviors.
but Tom didn't have the background he was raised in the muggle world. So how could he impess other to join him. teach them new ways.Alternatively, Voldemort could wow them with his incredible native talent and other things such as his ability to speak parseltongue. Voldemort did not walk in as an 11-year old and start teaching; he did, according to Dumbledore, walk in and start wowing everyone.
As with many theroies.. and where is the evidence that Voldermort was good and changed his charter because Dumbledore was watching him he still managed to opened the chamber and killed a few people at 16.I'm not sure what you mean. Voldemort never was "good" (insofar as that word means anything). He was, however, extremely intelligent. He knew that he needed to charm, and charm he did. This means that he could not be overt in his bullying.

As for opening the Chamber, that was a solitary task. Bullying and stealing would have involved other students. Thus, it would have been much more difficult for Voldemort to do this. It also would have been foolish: Voldemort was trying (very succesfully) to dupe the teachers into thinking that he was the model citizen.
if Harry is marked as a equal then we might surmise then what Harry discovers Tom/ Voldermort has already discovered.How does that follow? Just because two individuals are "equal" in some way, we by no means expect their life histories to be all that similar. Harry only discovered it because he was friends with a house-elf: i.e., pure luck. The Marauders were very good at finding out secrets, too, but they never found it: after all, Sirius does not recommend the room when Harry is looking for a place to hold the DA meetings, which Sirius would have done had he known about it.
Then where did he get all the information and learned and practice all those dark spells that even the death Eater didn't know as Tom was very secretive and didn't like to share.We have no reason to think that Voldemort knew all of this as a student. He continued his "research" long after he left Hogwarts. It seems that you are assuming that Voldemort was as formidable at the dark arts as a student as he was as a youngster. However, this is almost certainly untrue.

As for learning the Dark Arts, again, keep in mind that this was an "extra curricular" set of topics from the start, but also one that was apparently common within the old wizarding families. Slughorn himself notes this in Prince. Given how impressive the young Voldemort was why wouldn't the Notts, Avery's etc. teach Voldemort the spells that they had learned? Given Voldemort's impressive grasp on magical theory, he would have had very easy times learning such spells.
don't forget that the room was first mention at christmass dinner passing dinner conversation.. big clue little mention in more then one book. a few lines.. clue thousands of banned book and mountain of other forbidden junk.None of these are clues that Voldemort knew about the Room. A proper clue would be some evidence linking Voldemort to the Room: not a "he could have..." or "maybe he..." but some line of direct evidence such as Dumbledore offers concerning himself, or something seen in the room that reflected Voldemort.
Nor did anybody else know what Tom did while at school. Tom did use his considerable charm on the other teachers. Most felt sorry and though highly of the talented good looking orphan. but there were rumors of thing going on in the school while Tom was there.Which also means that he could not have continued thieving; that would have drawn much anger from the Slytherin students in particular, and had he stolen from students in other houses, then word of the thefts would have reached Dumbledore's ears. As Dumbledore was alert to this behavior in Voldemort, and as Voldemort knew it, this mean that Voldemort would know better than to do it.
Voldermort is to much like Duddy able to con his parents/teaches into believing what he wants them to believe. while he dose his own things.Actually, Voldemort is very unlike Dudley. Dudley is a spoiled brat who is smothered in selfish love by his parents. Dudley has no subtlety, but selfish though he is, he does genuinely care for his family. Dudley also is utterly reliant: he is the sort that will always expect someone to provide him with what he wants or to excuse his misdeeds.

Voldemort was never loved in any sense, and never spoiled at all. Voldemort is extremely subtle and devious. Voldemort is totally self-reliant, and far from expecting people to excuse his misdeeds, he (if anything) is paranoid, thinking that everyone is thinking about him at all times. Because Voldemort is completely incapable of empathizing with anyone, he also assumes that the attention that he receives is hostile: greatness breeds envy breeds spite and lies. So, opposite of expecting favors, Voldemort thinks that the world is out to get him.

It is Draco where the parallels with Dudley lie. Indeed, Draco seems even to have expected favored status from Voldemort: learning that being a Malfoy means little more than being just another servant is surely a major eye-opener for Draco.

However, this is all getting off topic from whether the Room of Requirement houses a Horcrux! Again, my statement stands: there is no evidence that Voldemort knew about the Room of Requirement, even though Rowling has had opportunity to present it. Yes, Voldemort would have liked to have known, but who wouldn't?
We haven't been given any insight (yet) where Riddle praticed his dark arts while still in school.Probably in the Slytherin common room: it would have been filled with students who would not care as well as students who were actively interested in such things.

Moreover, given Voldemort's great inate powers and his great grasp of theory, it would not have been difficult for him to work out much of this himsef. Even as a child, he could command people, alter memories, inflict pain, etc., without even using a wand. Once he grasped the basic theory behind what he had been doing almost instinctively, learning these spells would have been easy.
But Riddle was charming, so we can guess that he could have gotten permission from a teacher to get a book out of the restricted section. We've already seen Hermione do this with Lockhart.True, but remember that Voldemort is trying to appear to be a good boy. He is on best terms with Slughorn, who clearly favored Voldemort. However, even as late as Voldemort's 6th year, Slughorn's response is that it is natural for wizards of certain calibers to be drawn to the Dark Arts. This is a telling line, as it indicates that Slughorn is not really aware of Voldemort having a strong interest in the Dark Arts. So, Voldemort had not been asking Sluggy for permission to see such things. He clearly had not been asking other teachers too much, either: word almost certainly would have reached Dippet's ears, and it simply would not look good for the model student to appear to interested in the Dark Arts.
So based on what has been written Rowling has given us 3 ways a student can get books out of the library. 1) Normal books can be checked out. 2) Restricted books need a teacher's permission. 3) The ROR can provide the books for you.What we do not know is that the RoR can provide restricted books.
We still have the question of where do you learn/practice the Avada Kedavra spell when you aren't a qualfied wizard.[/quoteds]Again, this sort of stuff almost certainly is learned within families. Draco knew both the Crucio and the Imperius: he presumably intended to use Avada Kedavra. Now, it is possible that Voldemort taught him, but it is more probable that his father, mother, aunt, etc., taught him these things.
[QUOTE=Indy_Racer;4497014]Still, I like the idea of ROR holding 1 more secret that will be helpful to Harry.From a literary perspective, I think that this would be a bad idea. Again, it would be repetitive: the Room has been important in two books in a row. Also, it would smack of Deus ex machina: the hero should find the clues using his own skills and mental powers (as Harry always does), not through some arbitrary device! Despite the fact that there is magic in Rowling's books, only once has she had a Deus ex machina resolution (the Priori Incantatem in the Graveyard). Do not expect to see her repeat this mistake!

Finally, having the RoR provide such an easy solution would demean and diminish Dumbledore's character. Even if he did not know about the Room prior to Harry's 4th year, then he certainly knew about it after the DA got busted. If there was anything useful there, then Dumbledore should have found it. Remember, however Harry gets his clues, Rowling has to make it some way where Dumbledore does not look like an idiot for missing it. Otherwise, Rowling will have committed the sin of writing an idiot plot (sensu Damon Knight).

Of course, if Dumbledore did not learn about the Room until Harry's 4th year, then it is incredibly improbable that Voldemort did. We learn in Chamber that great wizards like Dumbledore could not find the Chamber: so, if Dumbledore has spent so long at Hogwarts and explored so much (and for similar reasons at some time as Voldemort), then how could he find not it and Voldemort find it? Remember, Harry does not find it: he is told about it; even Fred & George and the Marauders did not really know about the Room.

Also, in Goblet of Fire, Malfoy mentions that Durmstrang students are taught Dark Arts, and not just Defense. Although we don't have anything that states he did any sort of exchange program, it does not seem to be so far of a stretch to assume that a preliminary learning of Dark Arts is not as taboo as Horcrux-learning.

If he did change his charter as you imply and he wouldn't need to charm his teaches and act the good boy. and he wouldn't have open the chamber and killed Myrtle the Riddle family or use the memory charm on his uncle or started calling himself lord Voldemort. or even know about the spider or switch the blame. To much says that Tom didn't change.
But he just hide it better. Even after all the killing he did and the working at Burks nobody though it could haven't been the same Tom to much denal as in OotP that Voldermort was back. Till he show his true self much later. When he came out into the open and started calling himself Lord Voldermort that the magical world knew how bad he really was.
SO to imply that he changed.. Dumbledore though hoped Tom would change but he didn't. He just hide his true charter much better charming those who might suppect him or bringing those to close into his iner circle those who knew to much. But to say he changed because of Dumbledore is streching it a bit to much. Fore we know that Tom didn't change he just hide it better. What type of people did the book say Tom gathered around him.
Because the books tell us that young Tom could hurt people if he wanted too. Theving and bulling but even at the orphange it couldn't be proven it was Tom. Only Dumbledore knew the truth because young Tom let it slip. and he use a spell to find the thieving trophies in Toms wardrobe and gave him a warning. Tom seem to change but did he really or did he just fooled and charmed everybody into thinking that he was a good boy.
The using of sepical objects for horcuxs like His thieving trophies didn't seem to change as he got older. As we saw in the memroy his theving didn't stop. Ie taking of the Cup and Locket or ring. it still continued just better hidden and nothing overt but even at the orphanage or at school it couldn't be proven. and the only one who suspected it could be Tom couldn't prove it. But I don't see how he change his evil personality. Just hide it better and so nothing could be proven against him. He still carried on the same way he did at the orphange. Just better at covering his antics and being charming so nothing could lead back to him. like hiding his thieving or bullying torphies that it would be easly found in his room at school a dead give away he would need a place to hide his new trophies and what a better place to hide them, then in the ROR.

I feel here I must point out that Albus did know about the room as he discovered it one night while looking for the toilet and found a room full of chamberpots. he stated he never was able to find this particular room again but indicated that it turns up whenever you require something. Trelawney knew about it and so did the elves as Winky dried out there on occasions so others knew about it. So why on earth couldn't have Tom required a room for something and have it turn up? Also we know that Albus wasn't keeping that good and eye on Tom as Tom managed to find and open the Chamber without Albus realising it at first and this is something Albus couldn't do even though he had his suspicions about Tom - especially after Myrtle died. I think Tom must also have been skilled at shutting off his mind at that age as Albus doesn't seem to have been able to penetrate his mind then.

Anyhow I see no reason why Tom didn't find and benefit from finding the RoR even if Jo dropped no hints it doesn't mean it didn't happen and we might even find out if this fact is true in Book 7.

The whole reason of showing Herry the memories was to show and to understand Tom's personalty. at 11 and 16-17 and 21+.. and how much did he change, When he came back to ask Dumbledore for a Job did he realy change that much from that 11 year old child in the orphanage. He just collected better trophies and learn to hurt people better. even to kill them. So why would he change at school. just learned to hide his bullying and theiving better. fooled charmed and bullied people just as he did at the orphange, So if he didn't change his way as the books have shown. Just became better at hiding his true charter. He would need a place to hide away from praying eyes and to hide his trophies. So that nothing could be linked back to himself. Play the sweet talented child in front of the teaches. but behind their backs he was the same evil child that he was at the orphanage

I don't think a child can be evil :s
Do you think he read the screaming book? There must be nice stuff in this book hmmm :) "Horcruxes for Dummies" hehehe

Society knows that children that take pleasure in torturing amimals at young ages don't stop but progress on to killing people. like the killing of the rabbit.

This is wrong... There are no predispositions to murder. Children are too young. Most children also like to play with their poopoo, and we're not all scatophils... Hunters like to hunt, they really enjoy it, traking a beast and killing it, play with its blood... There are killing instincts in our nature, for sure. Doesn't make us mass murderers. Society kills more human beings than humans actually do.

Ok I'm getting uncomfortable with the way this conversation is going everyone so please let's get back onto the topic at hand :)

So therefore I still believe that Tom didn't change his nature for anyone. And being a bully and taking trophies of his bulling he would have needed a better hiding place then his wardrobe or in his dorm room or any place that could have been associated to him. Needing a place to hide his ill gotten trophies. He would have stumbled across the room the same way as many others did when needing a place to hide broken discarded or banned objects. Being secretive and a loner relaying on others for help would have been against his nature. as shown as a child and adult.
Fore he knew his way around London and didn't ask or want any help from Dumbledore. He would have explored Horwarts on his own. Lookin for special places just for him. Not knowing which of his parents were magical. First idea for who was magical, was his father. So he could not have discovered his conection to the chamber till after he knew his magical heiratge.

I'm having fun imagining Voldie asking to be excused to go to the wc after his interview with Dumbledore and nipping into Myrtle's (girls!) bathroom to make a quick trip to the Chamber of Secrets to hide a horcrux! Using the girls' bathroom: another thing he and Harry have in common! :lol: :lol: :lol:

About the Room of Requirement...the fact that Harry and Draco both found the same room to hide something in and that hundreds and hundreds of other people had also found the same room to hide things in could mean that when someone needs a place to hide something, they always get that room. Maybe anyone who needed a bathroom would Dumbledore same chamber pot room, anyone who wanted to practice DADA would find the same room Harry found, tipsy house elfs always find Winky's drunk tank... If everyone found a completely different room to hide something (and I am sure Voldemort was not the only wizard or witch who thought he needed a very special place to hide his very special things), then that room Harry and Draco found would not have had so much stuff in it. So I think a Horcrux could be hidden in the same room.

The cabinets would suggest that it could have been possible for Voldemort to get into the room after he left Hogwarts unbeknownst to anyone else because of the B&B connection...After all, Draco says he learned about the cabinets from Montague but that doesn't mean Voldemort didn't know about them also--may possibly even have set them up himself--the one at Hogwarts just before he left and the B&B one when he went to work there right after leaving school. That actually sound like something he might well have plotted at that time: Hogwarts was important to him for some reason , he wanted/needed to stay there or have access to being there. Since he didn't get the job, he could still get there through the cabinets. But once the Hogwarts one was broken, he needed someone inside the school to fix it--Draco.

One point against this notion is that Dumbledor was at Hogwarts--would Voldemort really hid a horcrux there right under his nose? Another point is the heavy protections around Hogwarts--but if Draco and the Death Eaters managed to get through them via the cabinets, so could Voldemort (before the HW one got broken). I don't know, I can't see Voldemort feeling at all safe or comfortable in Dumbledore's territory....

Thought-provoking editorial! Good job--I'm sure you are on to something!

Also, it would smack of Deus ex machina: the hero should find the clues using his own skills and mental powers (as Harry always does), not through some arbitrary device! Despite the fact that there is magic in Rowling's books, only once has she had a Deus ex machina resolution (the Priori Incantatem in the Graveyard). Do not expect to see her repeat this mistake! I have to disagree with you here. Firstly, I don't agree that the Priori Incantatem scene is a mistake. A lot of information is revealed, Harry's connection to his parents and their constancy in his life is underscored, he gets Cedric's request...and it is Harry's will and magical ability, not some deus ex machina, which forces the beads of light back to touch Voldemort's wand. Furthermore, you appear to be forgetting Ron's chess game, Hermione's potions abilities, the time turner, etc. etc., not to mention the entire Tri-wizard Tournament if you think this was the only time Harry didn't "find the clues using his own skills and mental powers".

I just had a funny vision of Voldemort hiding a horcrux in the RoR that was full of chamberpots - in particular the one that Albus used all those years ago. Yucky I know but it made me smile.

None of these are clues that Voldemort knew about the Room. A proper clue would be some evidence linking Voldemort to the Room: not a "he could have..." or "maybe he..." but some line of direct evidence such as Dumbledore offers concerning himself, or something seen in the room that reflected Voldemort.

Again, my statement stands: there is no evidence that Voldemort knew about the Room of Requirement, even though Rowling has had opportunity to present it. Yes, Voldemort would have liked to have known, but who wouldn't?

I doubt this will qualify in your opinion as a clue but I think it is a possibility. Please remember that sometimes JKR's clues are very subtle. IMO, the fact that the cabinet that was linked to the ROR was at Borgin and Burke's and that Riddle worked there at the very least suggests a possible link between the two.

Another point is that Dumbledore rarely tell Harry everything he knows, only enough to give Harry an idea or as much as DD thinks Harry needs to know to follow through on his own. I think it is highly likely that Dumbledore knew quite a bit more about the Room of Requirement than his mention of the chamber pot incident. He deliberately mentioned it in an innocent ancecdote, but one also likely to be remembered. Almost makes you think he wanted Harry to find the ROR....

I still don't quite get the point that Harry finding a horcrux in the ROR smacks of deus ex machina. The scenario would not have to play out as Harry standing in the hall by the ROR thinking he's got to find a horcrux and the door to the room opening to reveal one right before his eyes! It would probably never occur to Harry that one could be there, he could see clues to indicate it and fail to see the significance for a long time... And once he did start to look there, he would still have to figure out how to get through Voldemort's magical protections around it.

I'm not convinced that Voldemort would have hidden a horcrux anywhere that close to Dumbledore--I'm not wedded to this theory at all--but I don't think it is as impossible--given the text--as some have said.

Indeed, if Voldemort knew about the RoR, then why did he not tell Lucius about it at some point? Lucius would have told Draco, yet Draco discovered the room because of Harry.

Good heavens! Voldemort is secretive--even with his closest Death Eaters! Dumbledore explicitly tells us this. He didn't tell Lucius that Tom Riddle's diary was a horcrux either. (In fact, I don't think we even know that Voldemort even gave the diary to Lucius. Lucius could well have looted Voldemort's things after Voldemort's downfall at Godric's Hollow. Of course, of course, only to keep them safe till his master returned! Using the diary to open the Chamber was meant more as some very serious muggle-baiting than anything else. I don't believe Voldemort would have ever instructed Malfoy to let one of his precious horcruxes out of his possession.) In fact, do any of the DE's (excepting RAB) even know about the horcruxes? There is some evidence that they might but, I think, no proof.... Don't you think Voldemort may like to test people (a little like the way DD gives Harry a tiny hint to see if he can follow it up?)? He could very well have been interested to see what young Malfoy would find out and be able to do on his own. Wasn't the mission to kill Dumbledore a kind of test too? IMO the fact that he did not tell Draco (or Lucius) about the room is in no way proof that he did not know about it.

I think the only reason LV went to the interview with DD was to hide the horcrux there. Remember it is the only place Tom felt at home. I think LV would have wanted to hide the horcrux at Hogwarts as a way of getting even with DD. I don't think for one moment that DD would have been worried about Tom being at Hogwarts because of all the enchantments on the school. DD is way to trusting and would have wanted to prove to Tom he didn't fear him being at Hogwarts, and of course he wanted the chance to see he wasn't wrong about Tom not changing, DD always gives everyone the benefit of the doubt. LV would not have went to the chamber because of the Diary that part of his soul was their ready to open the Chamber of Secrets some day and prove he was the desendent of Slytherin. I think he wanted peice of his soul at Hogwarts because it was the only real home he ever had.

Yeah maybe it's got something to do with the curse on the DADA job. Like a teacher who's not able to remove it will not stay.

Are you suggesting that the person who removes the horcrux from Hogwarts will be be able to become a permanent DADA teacher?

Don't we expect one of our protagonists to become DADA teacher? this would be a good proof (if not the best proof) to be a true DADA teacher.