Moriath April 27th, 2007, 9:34 am Cornelius Oswald Fudge (http://www.hp-lexicon.org/wizards/fudge.html) was Minister of Magic from 1990-1997 and was succeeded by Rufus Scrimgeour. He has grey hair and was seen wearing a "pinstriped suit, scarlet tie, long black cloak, pointed purple boots, lime green bowler hat" (HPL).
Fudge is somewhat weak, swayed by money and addicted to his own position and privilege. Fudge is impressed by wizarding families with pure bloodlines and by generous donations. As a result, he favors people like Lucius Malfoy and looks down on people like the Weasleys.
On the surface, Fudge would seem to be a kindly, blustering, somewhat pompous fellow who is essentially good-natured. However, for far too long he refused to see that Voldemort had returned simply because it would disrupt his well-ordered, comfortable world. He trusted the Dementors and allowed them to control Azkaban, which was where many of Voldemort's supporters were imprisoned.
Fudge spent a year (1995 - 1996 [Y15 - Y16]) trying to convince everyone that Dumbledore was wrong about Voldemort's return and that Harry was a disturbed, even mentally unstable teenager trying to get attention. He manipulated the press, using the Daily Prophet to spread lies about the two, and installed an operative within Hogwarts in the person of Dolores Umbridge. These actions were an attempt to get rid of both Harry and Dumbledore, since Fudge believed that by silencing them, the whole Voldemort problem would vanish. However, at the end of the battle in the Department of Mysteries, Fudge saw Voldemort with his own eyes and was forced to admit that the worst had indeed happened.
Study Questions
Are Fudge's attempts to discredit both, Dumbledore and Harry, excusable?
Was Fudge a good Minister of Magic? Is Scrimgeour better?
How would you describe his relationship to Harry/Dumbledore/the Muggle PM/Snape/Lucius Malfoy/the Daily Prophet?
Why did Fudge put so much trust in Dementors? He must have known that they were among the foulest creatures on earth.
Do you think that there is a deeper meaning behind how Fudge is portrayed?
Will Fudge play a role in Deathly Hallows?
Please remember that this is a discussion thread. All criticism should be constructive. Posts that are considered character bashing may be deleted by staff.
HGHPRW April 28th, 2007, 2:53 pm Yay! First post in new thread!
Back on topic:
Are Fudge's attempts to discredit both, Dumbledore and Harry, excusable?
I think he was really nervous and scared, about Voldemort's return, and thought it would be easier and better to discredit both of them than to face what was coming, and prepare for a fight. I think he was a bit weak, because he didn't look reality in the face, he looked at his fantasies, and wouldn't protect the rest of the Wizarding World.
Was Fudge a good Minister of Magic? Is Scrimgeour better?
I think he wasn't a bad Minister, but he could have been better, and looked reality in the face about Voldemort and not kid himself about that stuff. Also, he should have acknowledged Voldemort's return to the living and done everything to protect and tell the rest of the Wizarding World. Scrimgeour is slightly better, he doesn't always look at his fantasies, but he is a bit silly in the way that he wants to appear better when Voldemort might suddenly decide to burst into the Ministry and take over.
How would you describe his relationship to Harry/Dumbledore/the Muggle PM/Snape/Lucius Malfoy/the Daily Prophet?
I'd describe him/Harry, he made several errors in trying to get Harry on his side, and trying to make Harry thinks he cares more than he does. Him/Dumbledore: he made several errors, as in not acknowledging that Dumbledore was right, and Voldemort was back. He also didn't listen to Dumbledore when he should have. Him/Snape: I think he and Snape got a long, for a while, but now, I don't know. Him/the Muggle PM: he might have needed to explain everything a bit more, because his Muggle counterpart didn't understand, and didn't like him. Him/Lucius Malfoy: I think they got along very well until OotP. Now, I don't know. Him/the Daily Prophet: I think they get along very well, as they print everything to his demands and credit.
Why did Fudge put so much trust in Dementors? He must have known that they were among the foulest creatures on earth.
I think he put so much trust, because he thought they wouldn't rebel, that they were faithful to him only, and because he felt safer with them around to guard his back. Also, I think he was afraid of them and wanted them for his own side.
Do you think that there is a deeper meaning behind how Fudge is portrayed?
I think he is portrayed as a bureaucrat and someone who might mean well, but gets tangled in his web of greed.
Will Fudge play a role in Deathly Hallows?
I think if Umbridge is in DH, he might be too, but only as a minor character, he isn't someone in the main plot, not that I can see.
sholeigh April 29th, 2007, 2:59 pm Are Fudge's attempts to discredit both, Dumbledore and Harry, excusable?
The way I see Fudge, he's easily blinded by what he wants to believe and by what other people tell him he should believe. He seems a bit gullible, or at least rather naive. Fudge was terrified by the thought of Voldemort's return. He was not feeling very secure in his position as Minister for Magic, since he's always believed that Dumbledore wants to replace him. I think he despaired at the thought of being Minister during a second War and so convinced himself that it couldn't be true. Considering that Fudge was owling Dumbledore regularly for help during his initial weeks as Minister, to see Fudge turn on Dumbledore in OotP was quite shocking. But I think Fudge's biggest error was he always thought he had control of the situation. During OotP he feels that control begin to slip. So his actions, as those of a person in over their head, were inexcusable, but not surprising.
Was Fudge a good Minister of Magic? Is Scrimgeour better?
I do not think Fudge was a good choice for Minister. He is not a strong enough person to take control when things go wrong. Without Voldemort's presence, I think Fudge could happily have maintained the status quo in the wizarding world, everything running along as it ever had without change. But a strong leader and person of action? Fudge is not it.
Scrimgeour is certainly a more forceful personality, but when/if the Second War is over, Scrimgeour will be less suitable to run a peace-time Ministry.
How would you describe his relationship to Harry/Dumbledore/the Muggle PM/Snape/Lucius Malfoy/the Daily Prophet?
Fudge seems to make use of people as it suits him, using his position to try and get co-operation. But Fudge was not particularly manipulative in his personal dealings. He could be congenial one moment and abrupt the next.
Why did Fudge put so much trust in Dementors? He must have known that they were among the foulest creatures on earth.
I think this is at the root of Fudge's problems: he believed he had control of the Dementors. He doesn't seem to realise they would turn on him the second Voldemort returned, that the only reason the Dementors hadn't done so already was because they had been given all the souls in Azkaban to feed on. But they had no loyalty to Fudge at all. I think the Dementors are intelligent creatures, and if it suited their purpose to make Fudge trust them, they would do it. In return they had access to Hogwarts for a year, and the emotions of all the people within, and they are allowed lawfully to take the souls of certain criminals, when the court condemns them.
Do you think that there is a deeper meaning behind how Fudge is portrayed?
Possibly. At the end of OotP, when Fudge sees Voldemort with his own eyes and finally believes, that could be a spiritual analogy. But many people will disbelieve something unless they see it with their own eyes.
Will Fudge play a role in Deathly Hallows?
I think Fudge will be mentioned, but I don't think he has a role to play.
Hes May 6th, 2007, 12:09 am Are Fudge's attempts to discredit both, Dumbledore and Harry, excusable?
Well he has always been jealous of Dumbledore, because people would have preferred to have him as Minister of Magic. That made Fudge nervous and suspicious, which in turn made him reluctant believing anything that Dumbledore said. With the return of Voldemort, Fudge only had Harry's and Dumbledore's word for it, no solid proof. Fudge, already paranoid about Dumbledore's popularity had two choices, believing Dumbledore and therefore let him and Harry get tons of attention. Or disbelieving him, making Dumbledore and Harry look foolish and keeping the people close to the Ministry. I think pretty much every Minister would have done the same, with so little evidence to go by. What he did was very wrong, but no surprising really.
Was Fudge a good Minister of Magic? Is Scrimgeour better?
Maybe he would have been a fine minister if Voldemort hadn't decided to return. He wasn't that bad before that happened. But it did and he showed how incapable he was.
Scrimgeour is better suited for the situation in the Magical World at this particular moment, although he is starting to be a bit too much like Crouch Sr with his Death Eater arrests. But I can't fully judge him yet, since the outcome of the war is still unknown.
Scrimgeour and Fudge are equally bad at handling Harry though.
How would you describe his relationship to Harry/Dumbledore/the Muggle PM/Snape/Lucius Malfoy/the Daily Prophet?
The Daily Prophet is obviously a tool of the government, I think the Ministry does have a big influence in what is printed.
Lucius Malfoy used Fudge and I think Fudge took advantage of Lucius too, a powerful and rich protector is always useful. When Lucius was captured it must have been hard on Fudge.
Why did Fudge put so much trust in Dementors? He must have known that they were among the foulest creatures on earth.
I think he underestimated them, he has/had a certain kind of arrogance against creatures not human and probably thought that they weren't capable of thinking by themselves and only followed commands. So he just thought, if I let them guard Azkaban they will be satisfied and no harm will come from it, because they are under my control.
Do you think that there is a deeper meaning behind how Fudge is portrayed?
He is the example of a politician that feels his time has come, is paranoid about anything and anyone and doesn't accept when it's time to step down.
Will Fudge play a role in Deathly Hallows?
I think he might replace Scrimgeour if something happens to him, which is very possible. Maybe he will be Minister again at the end of the book. I don't see him playing an active role though.
Queen_Princess May 6th, 2007, 3:35 am Are Fudge's attempts to discredit both, Dumbledore and Harry, excusable?
No.
Was Fudge a good Minister of Magic? Is Scrimgeour better?
Fudge was good for a bt but then turned bad. I don't think that Scrimgeor is all that good but he is better.
How would you describe his relationship to Harry/Dumbledore/the Muggle PM/Snape/Lucius Malfoy/the Daily Prophet?
Harry: He was hating on him because of Dumbledore.But I think that he likes him or he is just using him because of his publicity.
Dumbledore: He looks up to Dumbledore because Dumbledore is wiser,smarter and dosn't get jelous(maybe because he is the best wizard in the world).
the Daily Prophet: He was just using it to get revenge on Dumbledore. What a load of rubbish.
Why did Fudge put so much trust in Dementors? He must have known that they were among the foulest creatures on earth.
Because he thought he can contropl them and destroy people's life for false rreasons.
Do you think that there is a deeper meaning behind how Fudge is portrayed?Will Fudge play a role in Deathly Hallows?
It might. I think he will play a role in Deathly Hallows. I wouldn't even be surpised if he was a Death Eater.
gillikitty2000 May 6th, 2007, 11:39 pm Will Fudge play a role in Deathly Hallows?
He might actually come out to be some sort of hero. It might be very important that he was so horrible in the 5th book and then he might come back to be someone who helps save the day. wow, that would be a very weird plot change.
dobbysfriend May 24th, 2007, 7:29 pm He could run for an office in our country and fit right in.
vivekgk May 25th, 2007, 4:42 pm Are Fudge's attempts to discredit both, Dumbledore and Harry, excusable?
Never. Fudge's myopia resulted in Voldemort getting a whole year for the unhindered execution of their plans, and in an innocent man's murder.
Was Fudge a good Minister of Magic? Is Scrimgeour better?
No, Fudge wasn't a good minister. His belief in the purity of blood, and his policy of accepting donations in exchange for favors resulted in the ministry being compromised.
Why did Fudge put so much trust in Dementors? He must have known that they were among the foulest creatures on earth.
I think that Fudge was looking for a 'quick and dirty' solution to the questions of what to do with the dementors, and what to do with the prisoners. He thought that he was killing two birds with a shot.
Do you think that there is a deeper meaning behind how Fudge is portrayed?
It shows us the still prevalent issue of blood-prejudice in the Wizarding World, and shows us that not everything is black and white.
Will Fudge play a role in Deathly Hallows?
He might play a small role, but nothing too significant. Perhaps something similar to HBP.
horcrux4 May 29th, 2007, 12:54 am Are Fudge's attempts to discredit both Dumbledore and Harry, excusable?
They may not be excusable but they are understandable, given the weak, fearful sort of person Fudge is. They are also surprisingly effective, which makes you think that while his assumptions are totally bone-headed, he is very capable at making things happen.
Was Fudge a good Minister of Magic? Is Scrimgeour better?
He wasn't a bad Minister for Magic, although anyone quite so open to admiring people who paid into party funds (or his equivalent) can't be the best for the job. We don't hear of any particular disasters that I can remember till Voldemort returns. So as a peace-time Minister, he seemed to keep things ticking over OK.
As for Scrimgeour, I'm not sure. Fudge had to go because he was discredited and heads had to roll. Also he was never going to be a good wartime Minister. It seems logical to have picked the man who was in charge of the Aurors as having more experience dealing with DEs. But the fact Scrimgeour was so keen to be seen to be effective, even when he wasn't, makes me think he's not ideal for the job either.
How would you describe his relationship to Harry/Dumbledore/the Muggle PM/Snape/Lucius Malfoy/the Daily Prophet?
Re Harry: Fudge played the genial older man when Harry was a person of note but when threatened by Harry's experience with Voldemort, Fudge turned completely into a bitter enemy of Harry's.
Re Dumbledore: Fudge was very intimidated by Dumbledore who made him see his own inferiority, and although at fist he was very dependent on him for advice, his paranioa that Dumbledore was trying to take over got worse and worse. In the scene in Dumbledore's office when they try to arrest him, he seems almost mad.
Re Snape: That's a difficult one. I don't remember him being perticularly nice to Snape except in PoA when he thinks Snape has cornered Sirius. I don't get the impression he had a lot of respect for Snape.
Re Lucius: he is rather in Lucius' pocket! A keen admirer, I'd say.
Why did Fudge put so much trust in Dementors? He must have known that they were among the foulest creatures on earth.
Good question. I don't really know. I assume that he thought that with Voldemort gone, they would be safe for him to control. Perhaps he had an inflated idea of the importance of the Ministry and really believed the Dementors would respect that. Or perhaps he loved the idea that he could control Voldemort's creatures which would make him feel as powerful as Voldemort. I really don't know.
Do you think that there is a deeper meaning behind how Fudge is portrayed?
Well, his name is of some significance - to fudge an issue is to blur it, to side-step it. So I suppose we should have guessed what kind of person he would be. He seems to be the stereotype of a peacetime Minister who finds that when war comes he doesn't have the skills to do that different job. And he panics. I think there have been a few of them through history!
Will Fudge play a role in Deathly Hallows?
Can't really see it, myself.
mugglelove June 7th, 2007, 12:02 am Are Fudge's attempts to discredit both, Dumbledore and Harry, excusable?
Not at all.
Was Fudge a good Minister of Magic? Is Scrimgeour better?
Neither of them are getting the job done right. Fudge just ignores the issues. Scrimgeour on the other hand just tries to cover it up.. good thing Harry didn't become their "poster boy".
Why did Fudge put so much trust in Dementors? He must have known that they were among the foulest creatures on earth.
Don't know, he was looking for an easy way out?
Do you think that there is a deeper meaning behind how Fudge is portrayed?
Yes, I believe we'll be seeing more from him.
Will Fudge play a role in Deathly Hallows?
I believe so, maybe put under the Imperius Curse?
Ronny June 7th, 2007, 12:12 am Fudge was undoubtedly a better Minister than Scrimgeour. Rufus turned the English wizarding world into a frightened, jittery mess. Cornelius was certainly foolish but compared to Rufus he definently has the moral high ground.
yokepean June 7th, 2007, 12:24 am Are Fudge's attempts to discredit both, Dumbledore and Harry, excusable?
Understandable, not excusable.
Was Fudge a good Minister of Magic? Is Scrimgeour better?
No, though he might be a reasonable Minister of Magic during peace time. At least Scrimgeour taking tough measures against Voldemort. I believe he wants to 'use' Harry not for his own interest, but for his government's. But Scrimgeour's probably fighting a losing battle, which makes his job really difficult. Given the circumstances I would say he's doing alright.
Why did Fudge put so much trust in Dementors? He must have known that they were among the foulest creatures on earth.
He prefers the easy way out.
Do you think that there is a deeper meaning behind how Fudge is portrayed?
Nope.
Will Fudge play a role in Deathly Hallows?
Nope.
Sheree June 7th, 2007, 7:31 am Was Fudge a good Minister of Magic? Is Scrimgeour better?
To be honest, I think I'd prefer Fudge.
Scrimgeour, by contrast, strikes me as someone to be afraid of - the next Barty Crouch, perhaps, but with a higher position of authority. The way he qas questioning Harry in the last book...the man creeps me out.
Fudge, by contrast, was a cowardly, easily frightened man, and he took the easy way way too often, but once he learned he was wrong and could no longer hide from it (although it did take seeing Voldemort with his own two eyes to convince him), it seems like the first thing he did was try to contact Dumbledore, the one person he knew would have real answers.
Hes June 7th, 2007, 11:44 am In defense of Fudge on how he handled the return of Voldemort. When Fudge was still Minister there was no definite proof that Voldemort had returned. Nobody had seen him but Harry and Fudge was biased against him and Dumbledore due to his jealousy of Dumbledore's powerful and influential position. Yes Fudge made a lot of mistakes, but I believe that if he had seen Voldemort with his own eyes or had there been any other solid proof of Voldemort's return, then I think Fudge would have acted the same as Scrimgeour does now.
Scrimgeour only became Minister when everyone knew Voldemort was back, he didn't have the problems that Fudge had. Scrimgeour in my view would have been just as sceptical as Fudge, had he been Minister during OotP.
I do think that Scrimgeour might be a bit better in war situation, because he had the advantage of having led the Auror office. But Fudge might have been a bit more careful with the amount of arrests made. A huge difference there wouldn't have been though.
Gandalf_Shaw June 7th, 2007, 8:00 pm Are Fudge's attempts to discredit both, Dumbledore and Harry, excusable?
He is perhaps excusable for wanting to believe Voldemort couldn't return, but his attack on Dumbledore and Harry cannot be forgiven because of the damage it may have caused. He wouldn't face up to his responsibilities and was out of his depth. To be honest, it is easy to pity him.
Was Fudge a good Minister of Magic? Is Scrimgeour better?
Fudge was unprepared for anything other than peacetime normality. Fudge isn't a bad man, but he didn't do honour to his role and shouldn't have been there in the first place. Scrimgeour worries me just as much because he could lie in a more dangerous way, and do intentional damage to someone just in order for his reputation to remain intact.
How would you describe his relationship to Harry/Dumbledore/the Muggle PM/Snape/Lucius Malfoy/the Daily Prophet?
His relationship with Dumbledore turned bitter, probably due to a long-standing resentment of his abilities and influence. As a result, the wizarding world suffered. As for Harry, he displayed his true colours when he believed magic had "addled his brains". He doesn't care for Harry or his unfortunate position. Fudge will have supported Malfoy as long as the donations kept coming, but be afraid of his connections to Death Eaters. I don't believe he ever knew Snape well at all, and dislikes him more for supporting Dumbledore. He looked down upon the Muggle PM thinking him of no regard, and highlights how he treats his inferiors. The Daily Prophet thrived under Fudge because he loved gossi[ as much as anyone and believed it.
Why did Fudge put so much trust in Dementors? He must have known that they were among the foulest creatures on earth.
He obviously believed they were better with him than against him, and falsely believed that they would remain faithful. He will do anything to stay in his position of power.
Do you think that there is a deeper meaning behind how Fudge is portrayed?
Fudge is like most modern politicians, caught up in his own glamour and greed, forgetting why he was elected in the first place. He is probably a parody by J.K of the Conservatives.
Will Fudge play a role in Deathly Hallows?
No, I think his position and role in the plot is over. He will only appear as a background figure and thus display the rise and fall of those in power.
HP_and_Kiwi June 20th, 2007, 12:50 am * Are Fudge's attempts to discredit both, Dumbledore and Harry, excusable?
I don't think what he did is excusable. He put the wizarding world in danger (and Muggles, too) because he didn't want to admit that Voldemort was back. He isn't evil for this, but definitely irresponsible.
* Was Fudge a good Minister of Magic? Is Scrimgeour better?
I think Scrimgeour is a bit better, since he isn't in denial like Fudge was. But I don't like the way he is, um, not completely truthful to the public.
* Why did Fudge put so much trust in Dementors? He must have known that they were among the foulest creatures on earth.
It's the same reason he didn't acknowledge that Voldemort had returned, he didn't want to accept that anything was wrong, he couldn't believe that anything bad could happen to the world that was rebuilt after VW1.
* Do you think that there is a deeper meaning behind how Fudge is portrayed?
I think he is the person that, to put it simply, goes into politics with good intentions and is corrupted.
* Will Fudge play a role in Deathly Hallows?
He could have a small role, but he isn't even Minister anymore so I don't see him playing an important part in DH.
Heleentje June 22nd, 2007, 3:38 pm Are Fudge's attempts to discredit both, Dumbledore and Harry, excusable?
No. Fudge was too concerned about his own position, he loved being minister of magic just a little too much. If he believed Harry and Dumbledore, he could have lost that position, so he tried to discredit them. By doing this he shows that he is more concerned about his personal gain than about public welfare. No minister of magic should ever become that way, because it defies the very purpose of his position: taking care of the people in the magical world.
Was Fudge a good Minister of Magic? Is Scrimgeour better?
Fudge had the luck of being minister in a relatively peaceful period between two wars. He didn't really have to worry about evil wizards and all. He had to rebuild a country, but he didn't have to protect it. As a rebuilder, Fudge was a good minister, but as a protector, he wasn't. Scrimgeour is better for that. They both have their strenghts and weaknesses. I wouldn't say one is exactly better than the other, but they're very different.
How would you describe his relationship to Harry/Dumbledore/the Muggle PM/Snape/Lucius Malfoy/the Daily Prophet?
Harry: Fudge always wanted to be very kind to him, but Harry never really saw him as a strong person. I'm afraid Fudge didn't see Harry as Harry, but as the Boy Who Lived.
Dumbledore: At first, he gravitated very strongly towards Dumbledore, but the longer he was minister of magic, the more he came to think of Dumbledore as a threat. In the end, he tried to discredit him to get rid of him.
The Muggle PM: I think Fudge felt a bit superior. The PM knew next to nothing, and Fudge got to explain it all, like he was the teacher and the PM just a little kid. He acted a bit belittling, and didn't really see the intelligence of the PM.
Snape: I don't think he really knew Snape. He didn't like him, but he trusted Dumbledore when he said that Snape was on their side.
Lucius Malfoy: Malfoy acted a bit like the sponsor of the ministry, and because of that, he could get away with quite a few things. Fudge saw a higly respacted man from a noble pureblood family, and he didn't really look past that.
The Daily Prophet: Well, the relationship between ministry officials and the press is always a bit ambigious. Fudge tries to look good in the newspapers, but journalist are not very good friends, when they find something to discredit him, they'll use it.
Why did Fudge put so much trust in Dementors? He must have known that they were among the foulest creatures on earth.
They're scary. Fudge was scared of them, so he reasoned that convicts would also be scarde of them (he thought correct). But he overlooked the fact that the Dementors weren't very happy with their position. In a prison, there's almost no happiness to feed on, so they wanted more.
Do you think that there is a deeper meaning behind how Fudge is portrayed?
He's the stereotype of a weak politician, so it's probably a parody on our world.
Will Fudge play a role in Deathly Hallows?
Maybe a minor role, but I don't see him playing any big, essential roles. His job was done at the end of book 5, after that, he became just a minor character.
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