HP Movie "Chapter-a-Day" DVD Discussion V2 [Archive]

Tonks

June 19th, 2007, 2:34 am

Okay, I'll admit it. I got this idea from the "Harry Potter Read-a-Thon" in the History of Magic forum. Okay, here's the idea:

Anyone who has ALL of the Harry Potter movies, so far, on DVD can join in on this thread. What we'll do is watch each movie chapter by chapter, watching a total of one chapter per day. We'll start discussions about movie/book comparisons, hidden messages, flaws, ideas, etc. Anyone can join in and comment about the chapter. Remember that you MUST have the DVD to do this because chapters are only on DVDs. We'll start by watching the first chapter of SS/PS tommorow.

Cheers,
Simon

Previous Movie Posts
Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?p=4008974#post4008974)
Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?p=4194472#4194472)
Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?p=4458336#4458336)

Previous Chapter Post
GoF Chp 1: The Riddle House (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?p=4466355#4466355)
GoF Chp 2: The Port Key (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?p=4469812#4469812)
GoF Chp 3: The Quidditch World Cup (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?p=4486249#4486249)
GoF Chp 4: The Dark Mark (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?p=4490175#4490175)
GoF Chp 5: The Tri-Wizard Tournament (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?p=4500080#4500080)
GoF Chp 6: The Goblet of Fire (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?p=4503906#4503906)
GoF Chp 7: The Unforgivable Curses (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?p=4509248#4509248)
GoF Chp 8: The Four Champions
GoF Chp 9: Let Events Unfold (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?p=4526093#4526093)

[u]Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire Chapter 10: Rita Skeeter

A fairly great introduction to Rita Skeeter. I've always kind of liked her, however she really seemed to generate a Lockheart vibe in her mannerisms and how she is talking, at least for the first bit. The actual interview is when she's giving a more original performance akin to the book. There really isn't much to say here, I don't exactly hate it but I don't exactly love it either. The in joke about Harry's age in comparison to Radcliffe's is quite clever but the rest of the interview is just a sort of one shot deal to me. It isn't the most funny stuff IMHO but it does the trick.

The only thing that really interests me each time is the quick quills quote's behaviour which is very lively, in fact probably the most lively thing in the broom cupboard. However I must say that Rita's winks and hints are very entertaining as well.

Things of note

Music used in the scene: (http://www.amazon.com/Harry-Potter-Goblet-Stuart-Cassells/dp/B000BGH22W/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/002-9513408-3692803?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1176962363&sr=1-1) Track 6: The Goblet of Fire.
Music Cue list greatly supplied by The Harry Potter Lexicon (http://www.hp-lexicon.org/about/films/gf/film_gf-soundtrack.html)

I cannot disagree more strongly.

It is not the jobs of the scriptwriter and director to plod through the book, page by page, chapter by chapter, regurgitating written scenes, lines, etc. That is a failure of adaptation. The first rule of cinema: show, don't tell.

Take the scene between Harry and Ron in the dorm: completely unnecessary. All that was needed was shown in the Great Hall, with the woozy tracking shot showing Harry's shocked progress through crowds of his suspicious peers, and the one shot of Ron's face, where we see suspicion, resentment, jealousy.

Pretty good.

Then the good invented scene shows us that the elders are concerned, even frightened. Ratchets up the tension. Harry and Ron arguing just chucks gobbets of exposition at the audience, and the largely pointless character of Rita Skeeter adds more pointless and draggy detail.

Ultimately, what is important is whether the scene (or portion of a scene) drives story, plot or theme. If it does none of these, then the fact that it is in the book is not an excuse to include it. (Indeed, it is an excuse to complain that the book needed tighter editing!)

I am of two minds where Skeeter is concerned. On one hand, I can watch Miranda Richardson until Pluto turns into a gas giant. She played the part well, and it does introduce a few laughs into a movie that needs a few. On the other hand, the scene did nothing to advance the plot, and the contribution to story simply could not be done, because there simply was not room to have Harry to bravely face up to negative press. (Also, it was too similar to Harry having to stare at the "Potter Sucks" badges!) Fortunately, Skeeter's screen time was very short, although it no doubt felt long to those who did not like it.

I have similar qualms with the "adults only" scene. On one hand, I disliked the deviation from narrative form: this is supposed to be single protagonist! On the other hand, it did make Snape look suspicious (why is he suggesting that things just unfold?), and also makes Dumbledore look a little Machiavellian (having recovered from the shock, he now is planning and thinking). I also liked the brief showing of the Pensieve.

The fight between Harry and Ron was OK. Still, we all know that Ron is always steadfastly loyal to Harry: should the movies be inventing stuff like this that Rowling would never include in her books??? [/sarcasm] Seriously, the timing was a little off, but that was a production issue. mrfutterman is right: this scene could have been cut, and the necessary lines (both of them!) could have been added to the "I"m not an owl" scene.

Oh, and the shot of Ron's face after Harry's name is draw is great: it was like Smeagol -> Gollum.....

I approve of the "adults only" scene. We all know that Harry will live to appear in a film again in 2 years time, so there is little natural suspense in the series (at least until characters we know start getting killed). The director, pretty much hamstrung, needs to use every means within his power to add tension, and this scene achieved that.

I agree on Skeeter providing some light relief, and of course Miranda was super, but I didn't consider the time spent on her well invested.

Continue the discussion!

Tabris93

June 19th, 2007, 5:51 am

Well, again it just shows that we have a different take on the movies. I for one see it as a visualization of the books, as opposed to many seeing it as a movie, first and foremost, which should follow the standard of storytelling-movies.

RoonibWazley

June 19th, 2007, 7:42 am

But that's not how the movies are made. No movies are a visualization of the book. All movie adaptations of a book are just that: adaptations. Changes are inevitable.

All movies need to adhere to the standard of movie storytelling: show, don't tell. Otherwise, the audience will not like the movie.

DarwinMayflower

June 19th, 2007, 7:43 am

Well that's the interesting thing about GoF or even the succeeding novels later. There's just so much that Rowling adds in later that is somewhat significant, you wonder how you could bring or efficiently put them together in order to make a good film. With the point of Skeeter, I love her performance and her symbolic presence in the broom closet. Upon rethinking about certain things, it's quite a neat little thing that Rowling put into the novel in the first place and being represented in the film. It shows greatly how Skeeter disregards people's boundries, even making a broom closet a interviewing room despite Harry being uncomfortable.

But at the same time the very sad thing is how later on (as with most other things) this small introduction to a character and their personality in the series is completely sacked to the sidelines. They lack a continuing presence with anyone that isn't the trio later on into the film. Which really sort of irks me since to me a good film is great as a whole...not in bits and pieces. The themes should be continuing, not a flash in the pan.

It will be hard to see how the next few films will rectify the problem of introducing characters but maintaining their presence throughout the film (no matter how little screen time they have). The Potterverse has easily been crowded with throwaway characters that can not be thrown away for the sake of something significant in the novel, but not film-wise.

RoonibWazley

June 19th, 2007, 7:48 am

It's a good thing that the movies have continued including very minor characters like Dean, Seamus, Flitwick, etc, if only for visual continuity. Who knows, maybe Seamus will have a larger roll in DH.

thedragonfly

June 19th, 2007, 1:43 pm

I have to kind of disagree with mrfutterman. While I don't think the Harry and Ron scene in the dorm room was vital to the movie, I'm not so sure it should have been cut or was "completely unnecessary". Yes, the scene where they show Ron's face is amazing, and would probably be sufficient for someone who has read the books. But for people who didn't read the books and have simply been following the movies, the dorm scene is a bit of a clarifying piece, that helps make sure the viewer got the message. It's kind of like a tap, "hey, did you see that?" It also shows some of the resentment and jealousy that's been building over the years. Obviously changes have to be made, 400, 500, 600 page books can't be completely covered in 2 to 3 hours, but the writers can't cut everything, unless, of course, you think that people have no business watching the movies if they haven't read the books.

Tabris93

June 19th, 2007, 2:18 pm

jammi567

June 19th, 2007, 6:40 pm

They may be nice details, but if they destract from the story that a movie has a tight time limit on telling, then it needs to be got rid of.

Tabris93

June 19th, 2007, 6:43 pm

I don't think they should, as I believe they enrichen the story instead of destract from it. Then again, we've had this discussion several times on this thread, so maybe it's better to just disagree and get on with the movie. ;)

jammi567

June 19th, 2007, 6:46 pm

Probally best. What chapter are we on?

RoonibWazley

June 19th, 2007, 8:23 pm

Of course, thing has to change. But they also change things tha doesn't have to be changed, and that is where I disagree. It can be similar to, if not completely alike, the books.

If all the side-stories and details aren't necessary in the movies, why does JKR bother putting them in the books? Because it adds depth, fullness and entertainment to the reader. It makes the world more alive, richer and the books more entertaining. So if you strip away all that because you want a streamlined movie, you end up with nothing more than the skeleton framework. You don't need anything else, but you lose a whole lot in that process.

So I don't want a scene to be included simply because it is needed, but because it shows some of the richness in the books. Not everything can be included, of course, but you should have more than the basic framework for a movie to be good, in my mind.

Unlike novels, movies have a limit to how much they can show. Aside from rare exceptions like Titanic or The Lord of the Rings, audiences do not want to sit for long movies.

The objective of any movie is to tell a story in an entertaining fashion. Little side details like the ones you want to add will make the movie longer, and thus people will be more apt to dislike it.

Basically, a scene should only be in the movie if it fits one of these 3 criteria (and if it fits all three, so much the better):

1) It supports the main plot(s).
2) It contributes to the story.
3) It is cinematically entertaining.

CrazyMuggle

June 19th, 2007, 9:17 pm

I agree with Cityx in that the dorm argument was a necessary scene for non-readers. The look in the Great Hall conveys Ron's feelings towards Harry but the Dorm scene throws it in your face (you now truly understand how and why he feels that way.) Rita Skeeter, whether vital or not, is a fun little addition for book fans. Richardson's performance was perfect and the "12, no 14" always makes me smile. The movies really need to show only what is necessary but adding in details like these gives them more depth (I know that sounds contradicting but... whatever:rockon:.)

lindaluna

June 20th, 2007, 6:36 am

I agree that there are so many throw away characters (like Lockhart). Their distraction value in the books makes them worth it, but in the movies you want a more cohesive feeling. But I'm hoping after book 7 that the makers of Movies 6 and 7 will be able to concentrate - knowing the final themes.

I wasn't sorry to see no more of Rita Skeeter. She was too much journalist and too little bug.

PS - another reason Moody's Mad Eye is Voldie's Spy Cam - "I spy with my little eye...."

I liked the dorm scene for the line "Harry Potter's stupid friend" which had a lot of resonance!

bumblybee

June 20th, 2007, 11:57 pm

This is getting a little ahead (sorry), but since we are discussing the argument between Harry and Ron it is relevant. The scene in the dorm could've been stronger. The acting wasn't the best. I don't think it was unnecessary, but the time could've been better spent without the actual fight, just having Ron act coldly toward Harry. Then instead of having the ridiculous "I'm not an owl!" scene, they could've had the scene where Hermione explains why Ron is so upset with him, like she does in the book. They could've had Hermione seek Harry out saying that Hagrid wants to meet him that night, and then proceed with the conversation they have by the lake. This is better because 1) the audience will understand Ron's point of view, 2) it's better dialog than what the lake scene has (and it adds characterization), and 3) it always annoyed me that Ron knows about the dragons in the movie. It would also still show how Hermione is caught in the middle, without the embarrassing (and pointless) he said-she said.

I really like Miranda Richardson as Rita Skeeter, and this is a great scene between them in the closet. My only problem with Rita is that she completely disappears after her article about Harry-Hermione-Krum. I think if they were going to include her, they should have at least continued to show a few more articles here or there making up stuff about Harry, causing him trouble. She was kind of unnecessary in the movie. She's just sort of there with no purpose.

lindaluna

June 21st, 2007, 5:22 am

Then instead of having the ridiculous "I'm not an owl!" scene, they could've had the scene where Hermione explains why Ron is so upset with him, like she does in the book..
That scene (I just watched it tonight) was great because dialogue is something like
Hermione (to ROn): Just tell him yourself!

Then the whole spiel.

So it leads to the idea that Hermione knew it was Ron telling Harry.
And Hermione doesn't like lying.

Hermione telling Harry why Ron was mad would have been redundant. It was obvious.

The next scenes in order (I can never remember but I'm watching tonight) were Harry in the owlry with the note ( I love Gary Oldham's voice) and the owl that bites. And then Sirius in the fire (stupidest special effect ever) All to avoid paying Oldham face time. Ridiculus!

Undrhil

June 25th, 2007, 6:51 am

I never did understand why this scene was included in the movie (except to add a little time to the movie) but when you look at the other stuff they have which could have been added (SPEW, for example) I would rather they add the scenes with Rita Skeeter than the scenes with SPEW. Also, it showed that there are witches and wizards which are *not* evil but clearly not good, either. This will be further expanded upon in Order of the Phoenix when we meet Professor Umbridge.

lindaluna

June 27th, 2007, 6:07 am

yoshi2542

June 27th, 2007, 10:00 am

Gary Oldham is sooooo good! Is he also playing Phineus Nigellus?

I can't believe he wasn't in movie 4 at all. The Money should have gone to him, not Rita Skeeter. Unless her presence is ... to establish the wasp on the window who plants the sirius vision in harry's mind in book 5 ... but they never established her as an animagus either.. so really pointless.

He did appear in GOF. He had a voiceover and appeared as a embers in the fire. It was still him doing the voice and providing the basis for the head in the coals, we saw footage of them filming him for the fireplace scene around the time the DVD came out if I recall.

lindaluna

June 28th, 2007, 6:44 am

I recognized the voice. but why no face time? Waste of spectacular actor.

DarwinMayflower

June 28th, 2007, 8:03 am

Tabris93

June 28th, 2007, 8:24 am

DarwinMayflower

June 28th, 2007, 8:47 am

I like the Owlery-scene. I think the Owlery is believable, and the actors are cute. I have a bit more trouble with the fire scene, though. I didn't like the way they did it. It should have been his real head in the fire. Apart from that, I liked the dialogue and the newspaper (she insisted on writing he was 12 instead of 14...)
I think it is somewhat believable as well, but the look it kind of makes me think that sometimes the wizards and witches (or even students) don't even care about their animals; especially ones they treat as pets and employees of the post to stuff them in such a hard and drafty looking place. I guess I'm just too used to seeing animals being pampered even better that some humans too much...at least in film only to find the owls being just left with what looks like an abandoned turret from a war lost long ago. But they're wild animals as well, they have warm feathers anyways so I guess it's all :cool: to me. ;)

KlausBaudelaire

June 28th, 2007, 9:01 am

I agree with you, having Sirius's face as embers of fire, was a genial touch.
I watched the movie 6 times in the theater, and every time the fireplace scene was shown, everyone was like: 'oooooooh, what is that?'
Something like the Wizard of Oz would have been cheesy as hell.

lindaluna

June 29th, 2007, 9:25 am

It should have been his real head in the fire.
Absolutely - how are embers supposed to eat a piece of toast? What is Umbridge's hand going to feel around for? A pattern in embers?

But real head = face money, while voice is less
partial appearance = no money owed.

I wonder if Newell hates Gary or if his agent was too tough on terms.

I did notice the castle was getting bigger. I thought I saw the owlery in movie 3. The towers are too high (far more than 7 stories) and windows to ... perchy ... for my liking - but I do like the look in general.

I agree with you, having Sirius's face as embers of fire, was a genial touch.
What does "genial" mean ? I really don't know how you are meaning it.

KlausBaudelaire

June 29th, 2007, 4:15 pm

it means a stroke of jenius, sorry, english is not my motherlanguage

jammi567

June 29th, 2007, 5:57 pm

The towers are too high (far more than 7 stories)
Well, duh, i hope that towers that have entrences on the hightest floor (in this case, the 7th) are much taller then the fllor they have an entrance on, otherwise, they wouldn't be called towers.

lindaluna

June 30th, 2007, 9:43 am

Maybe that's my bad, but I assumed the whole place was max 7 stories high. I like the look - but it is totally massive!

Back to the DVD - beautiful photography of the snowy scenes. Gorgeous!

I think we're up to Dean told Parvati. I liked Neville in the water and that it was changed to Magical Plants of the Highland Lochs. A lot more fitting. I wonder if JKR ever watches the movie and slaps her head & says - that would have been easier / better.

I also liked that Dan & Rupert (Harry & Ron) are trying to be friendly with non-normal friends (Neville & Seamus) and finding it a bit heavy going. Very nice!

Bonnie Wright must have the best temperment in the world. There are so many scenes she's in where she's just watching.

it means a stroke of jenius, sorry, english is not my motherlanguage

I think genial means friendly, amiable. But you are a fan of the embers. :no:

jammi567

June 30th, 2007, 3:36 pm

Personally, i don't see the problem of the head being made of embers, and there not being a real head. Seeing as the issue of eating whilst in the fire doesn't come upin the movie, i don't see it as a problem.

lindaluna

July 1st, 2007, 8:47 am

What did he mean by "keep your friends close but your enemies closer?"
Is that just a throw away line or does it foreshadow anything?

yoshi2542

July 1st, 2007, 9:02 am

What did he mean by "keep your friends close but your enemies closer?"
Is that just a throw away line or does it foreshadow anything?

I though he just said "Keep your friends close, Harry." I don't think he mentioned enemies at all.

I liked the head made of embers. I thought it looked good and felt more magical than Sirius' head just sitting there.

kerri

July 1st, 2007, 9:08 am

I though he just said "Keep your friends close, Harry." I don't think he mentioned enemies at all.

I liked the head made of embers. I thought it looked good and felt more magical than Sirius' head just sitting there.

In the book Sirius says "Keep your freinds close but your enemies closer." The movie shortened it down. I really hated the whole face in the fire pit look. It looked...sloppy. I always pictured it as a hologram type of thing.

DarwinMayflower

July 2nd, 2007, 2:28 am

CrazyMuggle

July 2nd, 2007, 3:37 am

I really liked the 3-way conversation between Harry, Ron, and Hermione ("Seamus told Dean...") because it always makes me laugh and does show the closeness of R/Hr and the tension b/w H/R (the look Ron gives to Harry at the end.) I wish Ginny could've had a line since she was there with them! I'm glad they included her though (and throughout the film.) The introduction to the dragons was alright...nothing special (but Harry's reaction to Hagrid and Maxime is priceless:lol:). All in all, it was a pretty decent chapter:tu:.

Undrhil

July 2nd, 2007, 5:05 am

I always felt that the conversation between Ron, Harry and Hermione in this part is one of the hints of how much Hermione does like Ron. Certainly, if she saw him as only a friend, she wouldn't even have put up with being a third party in this game of Telephone. We know this because of her exclamation at Harry "I'm not a owl!" when he started telling her to tell Ron something.

I wasn't overly pleased with the dragon scene, but not because of the dragons, per se. Rather, I was miffed because they took the time to show Hagrid being concerned about Ron not telling Harry about the dragons. This scene would have made much more sense if they had included the similar scene between Hagrid, Ron and Harry in PoA when they were both mad at Hermione and not talking to her. Since that scene wasn't shown, there's no real basis for Hagrid showing this much concern over something as trivial as Ron not mentioning anything to Harry. For all Hagrid knows, maybe Ron thought it would be a bit of a laugh to imagine Harry's face the first time seeing the dragons?

Of course, there was that indignation in Harry's tone when he said "No! He didn't tell me anything!" I felt like calling him Anakin and saying "Wah wah! Mr. Potter! Would you like some cheese with that wine." and make it sound like Hagrid.

Well, I laughed at it, anyway. :-D

DarwinMayflower

July 2nd, 2007, 5:22 am

Of course, there was that indignation in Harry's tone when he said "No! He didn't tell me anything!" I felt like calling him Anakin and saying "Wah wah! Mr. Potter! Would you like some cheese with that wine." and make it sound like Hagrid.

Well, I laughed at it, anyway. :-D
It is good that you bring this up because I always thought that this scene handled the madness that is anger between two friends pretty well. The idea that Harry wants to get in the last word to tell Hermione to give...um...the last word to Ron. But especially the part that you mentioned. In any other film in Harry's position, the protagonist will reflect on how they treated Ron or feel sort of puzzled at this act of kindness; but how Harry refuses to see that Ron still is looking out for him and rather stay angry at him is a nice realistic touch to how sometimes being angry makes us lose all our minds.

lindaluna

July 2nd, 2007, 1:44 pm

At the beginning Hermione says to Ron "just tell him yourself" which I thought (after) conveyed the truth of that whole tortuous episode. Then after Harry saying "that's mental - how could anyone work that out?". That whole thing was true Potterhead stuff to me - perfect!

I liked how Ron and Harry were making do with Seamus (in my mind the traitor to be) and Neville but not enjoying it as much.
I liked they changed the book name to Waterplants of the Highland Lochs. (although then you can't understand why they had to steal from Snape...did they make it seem he'd stolen from Snape..?)

I thought the dragons looked like someone spraying gasoline out of a cage. I thought the dragons were fire spewing puppets in that scene tho' - like at the premier - and not CGI.

Again, you called it ground level documentary style, but to me it was more - yes like that but I think that is a generous description. Stagey again I'd call it. Harry can't get too close, but it could have been more impressive. (ie Harry being in a tree as the crates pass underneath him) or something.

I liked Hagrid's dialogue with Harry on the walk over. It reminds one that Hagrid is an adult talking to children, and thus how kind he truly is. Not that he is a child-like being.

The other thing is - in POA outside the shrieking shack, Hermione said "do you want to move any closer", which Ron took the wrong way - Hermione was talking about approaching the shack. Ron said "no" of course. Then in GOF Maxine says "La c'est manifique! Can we get any closer?" and then they do get closer to the dragons (and each other).

[Once again the problem I found is how muddy the light is in this shot. It might be just my monitor, but in general it looks pretty dark. Once again this isn't necessarily a bad thing, it does some representative of an overcast sky; but it's almost too dark at times. This bugged me a lot in POA too - although I liked that they shot more outside. I'm wondering if this is just Britian & British weather (dark grey) - why the movie industry chose sunny california ... ?

Tabris93

July 2nd, 2007, 5:17 pm

DarwinMayflower

July 2nd, 2007, 6:05 pm

I always liked the fight scene here, even though it is added. The owl-comment was spot on - and very hilarious.

What I really like about the movie is the subtle (and not so subtle ;)) humour. Dan Radcliffe is finally old enough to manage to pull it off - I laugh everytime he reacts to the mushy Hagrid/Olympe-scene.

I think the dragons are beautiful, and they are shown in a realistic way instead of that typical "show off"-style that they could have done.
Well about the humour one thing that I missed is the wonderful in joke they had between Hagrid and Harry. Mainly Hagrid combing his hair and how he told Harry he would like to try it sometime which is a pretty great reference to his always messy hair.

Another neat little thing is how disgusted Harry seems to be at the two half giants being cozy but he himself is trying to get with someone throughout the film. :lol:

troryfan

July 4th, 2007, 4:02 pm

the scene is brilliant! The 3 way conversation is fantastic. I loved that Hermione went with Ron not Harry, and that Harry was forced to stay with Neville.

I loved Hagrid getting all smartened up for his date. And the sound of Harrys voice when he asks Hagrid what he has done.

Jo

DarwinMayflower

July 4th, 2007, 11:49 pm

I liked how Ron and Harry were making do with Seamus (in my mind the traitor to be) and Neville but not enjoying it as much.
I liked they changed the book name to Waterplants of the Highland Lochs. (although then you can't understand why they had to steal from Snape...did they make it seem he'd stolen from Snape..?)
That does bring up a good point about even Neville and Seamus' roles in the school community. With Harry now being an outsider, he teams up with another outsider with Neville (and with Luna in the next film of course). Ron being mad at Harry teams up with the rest of the accepted school body who is also mad at Harry.

Previous Movie Posts
Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?p=4008974#post4008974)
Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?p=4194472#4194472)
Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?p=4458336#4458336)

Previous Chapter Post
GoF Chp 1: The Riddle House (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?p=4466355#4466355)
GoF Chp 2: The Port Key (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?p=4469812#4469812)
GoF Chp 3: The Quidditch World Cup (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?p=4486249#4486249)
GoF Chp 4: The Dark Mark (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?p=4490175#4490175)
GoF Chp 5: The Tri-Wizard Tournament (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?p=4500080#4500080)
GoF Chp 6: The Goblet of Fire (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?p=4503906#4503906)
GoF Chp 7: The Unforgivable Curses (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?p=4509248#4509248)
GoF Chp 8: The Four Champions (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?p=4526093#4526093)
GoF Chp 9: Let Events Unfold
GoF Chp 10: Rita Skeeter (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?p=4567217#4567217)
GoF Chp 11: Sirius Conversation (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?p=4594581#4594581)
GoF Chp 12: The Hungarian Horntail (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?p=4602952#4602952)

Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire Chapter 13: Transforming Mayfoy

How appropriate that we'd come to this chapter the week that Transformers opens. However enough about huge awesome robots being more than meets the eye, onto HP.

We start off with close ups the badges. I've always had a different idea as to how those badges are supposed to look, in fact I've always sort of imagined them to be like the badges they wore on their robes to signify their house, sort of the coat of arms shape. But I do love how they are just like those pins you get at carnivals or supporting a political figure. I like it because it shows how the wizarding world sort of adopts modern day items; especially items as modern as the badges. Only problem is that "Cedric Rules" really doesn't appear for all that long for you to see it well enough. However it is sort of echoed by that one small kid who's running by saying Cedric Rules in a sort of offhand way...I guess being late to whatever engagement he has supercedes him rubbing it in Potter's face.

This is one of the first hall crowd scenes of just walking down the halls of Hogwarts which is done pretty well but still has that sort of unfocused feeling of it all like the QWC chapter earlier. What I do like the most of this scene is the symbolism of Harry being alone and picked upon from all houses in Hogwarts. Even the modest Hufflepuffs are being quite nasty bullies; something usually reserved for the most foul of Slytherins which only emphasizes how many people dislike Potter being the 4th Champion.

The thing that really symbolizes his ostricization is Harry not wearing his robe/cloak whereas everyone else he meets in this scene is. I find this to be very interesting because suddenly it's like he has no house to support him at all, even his own Gryffindor house which is only emphasized by Ron still being angry at him. Of course Ron and Seamus at the time are wearing their robes. The great thing about this symbolism is how much it plays into how the Goblet of Fire was tricked into picking 4 champions. Mainly it had to be tricked to think there were 4 schools instead of 3 and Harry being the only one qualified from that 4th school. One could say that Harry lacking any school colour in that scene could be interpretted as such; that Harry might as well be an outsider from another school to everyone.

As we meet up with Cedric, everytime I see Pattinson it shows how great casting they had for him as Cedric. He really does have that great charm and humbleness without being entirely too flashy and he is basically Cedric. It's too bad that in general there weren't more scenes with him although as few scenes he's in, he sells who Cedric is and what he represents.

As for the whole Malfoy Ferret scene, the CG is good, Felton acts wonderfully in this yet again but I just wish that it would have been a bit more physical in abusing the ferret. Considering that in the film there was a Snape slapping people in the head with books, having the ferret hit the ground a few times would be somewhat allowable. Kind of a shame that instead they had him float into the air like some weird balloon.

Gleeson's acting was alright. I've voiced earlier how I felt about his charterization of Moody which was a bit too off kilter and not angry enough. This is coupled with the most disappointing showing of the DADA office yet. The class earlier was filled with certain objects of interest, but with the DADA office, there were far too many magnifying glasses of a seemingly non-useful nature. It might be a slight homage to mad scientists of the heyday with vials and bottles everywhere, but even they had variety of different colours of potions, formulas and other mad devices. This time the inside equally represents the gloomy outside; dull, metallic and grey. There should have been more things that should have scared Harry than intrigue him, but I guess all that intrigue and fear was used up in CoS's Borgin and Burke's scene.

Things of Note

Music used in the scene (http://www.amazon.com/Harry-Potter-Goblet-Stuart-Cassells/dp/B000BGH22W/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/002-9513408-3692803?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1176962363&sr=1-1): Track 9: Harry Sees Dragons.
Music Cue list greatly supplied by The Harry Potter Lexicon (http://www.hp-lexicon.org/about/films/gf/film_gf-soundtrack.html)

The funny thing about Moody's comment about Malfoy's greasy hair is that he hasn't used grease or even featured the slick back look since CoS. In PoA he has the au-naturale part in the middle as he also does here.

There was a bit of added dialogue about how Moody describes the other contestants talents. The message was supposed to be reserved for Sirius during the fireplace chat to talk about the competition, but the interesting thing is that Moody talked about Diggory being able to transfigure a watch into a whistle. This isn't much to say but at the same time Moody did have this to say in the novel
"Secrecy Sensor. Vibrates when it detects concealment and lies.. . no use here, of course, too much interference - students in every direction lying about why they haven't done their homework Been humming ever since I got here. I had to disable my Sneakoscope because it wouldn't stop whistling. It's extra-sensitive, picks up stuff about a mile around. Of course, it could be picking up more than kid stuff," he added in a growl.
But that's just me reading in too much with the dialogue. Who knows? Kloves might have just added that in as an easter egg for the fans.

The couryard has changed a bit again. Although the tree was always there, the metal statue of the planet is new. I'll post up pictures later.

lindaluna

July 5th, 2007, 7:56 am

This is one of the first hall crowd scenes of just walking down the halls of Hogwarts which is done pretty well but still has that sort of unfocused feeling of it all like the QWC chapter earlier. What I do like the most of this scene is the symbolism of Harry being alone and picked upon from all houses in Hogwarts. Even the modest Hufflepuffs are being quite nasty bullies; something usually reserved for the most foul of Slytherins which only emphasizes how many people dislike Potter being the 4th Champion.
There's one blong Hufflepuff girl extra (she's been in several films, I remember her at Ernie McMillan's table in COS in the study hall, and also in POA, who looked particularly scornful. I hope she gets a bigger role in OOP.

The thing that really symbolizes his ostricization is Harry not wearing his robe/cloak whereas everyone else he meets in this scene is. I find this to be very interesting because suddenly it's like he has no house to support him at all...The great thing about this symbolism is how much it plays into how the Goblet of Fire was tricked into picking 4 champions....and Harry being the only one qualified from that 4th school.
I never noticed that about the robes and think it is just genius!

As we meet up with Cedric, everytime I see Pattinson it shows how great casting they had for him as Cedric.When I saw his pics at the premiers and read his interviews, he seemed like a charming lady's man to me...but I agree he does Cedric perfectly - an excellent choice. I've seen the film like 6000 times now and his performance is beautiful. I am never sick of it (wish I could say the same for Radcliffe).

The whole Malfoy Ferret scene, the CG is good, Felton acts wonderfully in this yet again but I just wish that it would have been a bit more physical in abusing the ferret. Actually - I'm glad they toned it down. I thought it was brutal in the books. I also think the CG was excellent and I love Draco and I was sorry this is basically it for him in the movies (a long wait for him for book 6 & 7).

I think there is a continuity error, at one point when McGonagall confronts Moody, Moody's face is entirely visible, then in another shot there is McGonagall's wand at his face. I originally thought it was Moody's own wand that he had reflectively at his face - it took me a while to realize it must be McGonagalls.

This is coupled with the most disappointing showing of the DADA office yet. There...there were far too many magnifying glasses of a seemingly non-useful nature. Yep - detail without meaning. Clutter for clutter's sake. Yuck !!!

Actually - I'm thinking that Cuaron may have not returned to HP films because he shook up the crowd of regulars (art direction, costume, hair etc) that does the films. Newell ("the Brit") (vs "nasty foreign type") got the job but let them go too wild. Sloppy.

I didn't like Moody insulting Krum. I felt like it was added in to explain why the movie director thought Krum was a bad actor... It certainly highlighted his flaws as an actor, but it was not canon and to me...nasty in tone on several levels. I liked the Diggory and Fleur comments, they heightenned the competitiveness. I found the one about Krum to be ... a cheap shot and inaccurate for the tone that was being built. Krum was a world chamption. Harry should be afraid of him, not contemptuous of him !

yoshi2542

July 5th, 2007, 10:33 am

I'm not sure how I feel about this chapter. The acting is fine, but it all seems so insubstantial, it's just very bland. The DADA office set seems like it's been dressed with outdoing Cuaron's sets in mind, but it lacks that considered, natural style, and just looks like they chucked in the all the clutter they could find. I like the scream from the trunk, but I think they could have done something different with the Foe-Glass. Perhaps have Dumbledore or Crouch Sr's face appear fleetingly and have Harry catch a glimpse of it. Again, it feels like more could have been done here.

Undrhil

July 5th, 2007, 5:32 pm

There was a bit of added dialogue about how Moody describes the other contestants talents. The message was supposed to be reserved for Sirius during the fireplace chat to talk about the competition, but the interesting thing is that Moody talked about Diggory being able to transfigure a watch into a whistle. This isn't much to say but at the same time Moody did have this to say in the novel

But that's just me reading in too much with the dialogue. Who knows? Kloves might have just added that in as an easter egg for the fans.

Actually, fakeMoody tells Harry that "by the time he was your age, Cedric could transfigure a teapot into a watch and have it sing you the time." I don't think this was added in homage to the scene from the book, since that scene was talking about the sneakascope whistling constantly. I saw it more as a sly way of fakeMoody sneaking in an insult to Harry, since Harry isn't able to make that type of magical change in anything at this point in the series.

troryfan

July 5th, 2007, 9:05 pm

it is a good scene, but seems slightly ill-placed. i dont know quite how to describe it.
I do love Moody though, he is great!

Jo

Dark Emperor

July 5th, 2007, 9:20 pm

The face fakeMoody makes to McG belies the immaturity of the imposter beneath it all....

DarwinMayflower

July 5th, 2007, 9:59 pm

Actually, fakeMoody tells Harry that "by the time he was your age, Cedric could transfigure a teapot into a watch and have it sing you the time." I don't think this was added in homage to the scene from the book, since that scene was talking about the sneakascope whistling constantly. I saw it more as a sly way of fakeMoody sneaking in an insult to Harry, since Harry isn't able to make that type of magical change in anything at this point in the series.
My bad then. I actually thought he said whistle.

As for the scene itself, I do agree that it is somewhat...meh. It does certainly lack a cerntain energy from everyone to the cinematography to the editing. It's not that I'm personally spoiled with extremly long takes with no cuts; even Grindhouse got a bit long in the tooth with their nigh 15 minute discussion about everything and nothing. However even something as simple as the discussion between FakeMoody and Harry the editing I felt was pretty poor. All in all it's just another pearl in a string of scenes that are needed but hardly worth rewatching.

Tabris93

July 6th, 2007, 6:34 pm

DarwinMayflower

July 6th, 2007, 11:36 pm

This is - how weird it might sound - one of my favourite scenes in the movie. The reason is that it is one of the few places in the movie where you get "two scenes in one scene". I love how Harry argues with Ron, then turns around, faces Malfoy and sees the ferret scene. I love it because they didn't cut it and suddenly transferred to a whole new place. It was longer, and had that everyday randomness feel that made it so much more believable and plausible for me.
It is sort of interesting because these are one of the few chapters that so much happens in one single scene. Harry being made fun of, telling Cedric about the Dragons, confronting Ron, confronting Malfoy, Malfoy ferret and then Moody discussion. Even though it does seem a bit random I personally felt it was a bit too dense, although I couldn't think of any better way to have it done.
I was happily suprised that they kept the badges - it seemed to be one of those "not necessary for the main plot - ergo useless"-things that would be cut - yet they kept it. Those details makes the movie so much better in my opinion.
It is a great visual device to show in the film. It's one of the few things that wasn't movie created in order to show and not tell like the novel so it was a great addition. Imagine if there were no badges, all these random people saying that Potter stinks would seem a bit out of place unless the audience clues in that a lot of people are against Potter and for Cedric. Wearing the badge is a loaded message because it reminds the audience of the support for Cedric and the student body feeling for Harry and shows that this isn't just random bullying but a unified effort. Picturing those tall Hufflepuffs blocking Harry's way without badges, I'd probably think them more to be bullies than supporters of Cedric...GOTS TO PAY THE TOLL!

One thing I forgot that I liked about this scene is this is probably the first time we get to see far more older students than younger students. PS and CoS were all young whereas PoA is just the same age, but this seems to be the first time where there are far more older students in shots than younger.
The argue was great, although I didn't like Seamus going on about things blowing up all the time. He did it once in PS, no need to make it a Seamus-trait. I liked that Ron seemed bored, like spending time with Seamus wasn't nearly as fun and interesting as being friends with Harry.
I also thought it was pretty good because it just followed illogical friend anger yet again. Dunno what to say? Dunno how to express your feelings? Say something weird and stupid.
Draco Malfoy and Snape was horribly underused in this movie - and I really am not sure if Draco really was such a wuss in the books as he is portrayed to be in the movies? The last two movies in particular.
Well like I've always said Draco has always been portrayed as a bit off in the entire series. He's far more sympathetic as seen by his disappointment in PS and CoS and other times he just loses his condecending edge in other films aside from PoA which I think he had the most screentime. He is underused but sadly there are other matters in Harry's attention.
I disagree with you on the ferret scene, DarwingMayFlower. Simply because it could have provoked reactions of offense and disgust. Even though we know it's Malfoy, what we see is an anmial, and I believe there are strict rules when it comes to how much animal abuse you can show in a low-rated movie. And starting a debate about animal welfare would take the focus away from what matters in this scene.
You might be right on that idea. It is supposed to be one of the funnier parts in the film and having him put into Crabbe's pants was a good substitute. It would have also made us miss the wonderful performance by Felton when he got transfigured back, how he was on all fours still having a bit of ferreting movement was done spot on. But animal cruelty aside, there have been far worst examples, I think it depends on the context. Something as cartoon violent as bouncing a ferret around (most definately a SFX ferret) would have been tolerable if shot right.

Tabris93

July 7th, 2007, 12:25 am

One thing I forgot that I liked about this scene is this is probably the first time we get to see far more older students than younger students. PS and CoS were all young whereas PoA is just the same age, but this seems to be the first time where there are far more older students in shots than younger.

This made me remember that I forgot (!) to comment on Cedric Diggory. I have mentioned before, but I think they did some superb casting here. Like you wrote earlier, he has that aura of being very popular and charming - and being very used to it. And I don't mean that in a negative sense, I am just stating facts. (Or what I see as facts, anyway ;)).

When it comes to older students - I think there is a great faulty in this movie in one particular scene when it comes to this. It's in the Gryffindor common room when Ron and Harry are becoming friends again. You can easily see that the Weasley twins are older than all the others - and the only ones at their age. They tower over every single student in there. It really stands out.

Something as cartoon violent as bouncing a ferret around (most definately a SFX ferret) would have been tolerable if shot right.
True, I agree with you here. It's a delicate balance.

lindaluna

July 8th, 2007, 3:39 am

*Jumping Ahead a Bit*

There is one older black boy that was also used to put his name in the cup,, and then there's the girl from East Enders that is Angelina Johnson, (but they are much shorter) and Angelina was filmed sitting. Who knows, maybe they cast short for Harry - notice how Neville was always at an off angle in this movie re Harry, either in the river while Harry was on the bank, or actually lying down on his bed while Harry was sitting up eating the chocolates? and Draco up a tree before he becomes a ferret. I think Dan has issues with being short. Hopefully now that he's wiggled his willy on stage he'll be more laid back.

ALso - of course - the mad eye spying on Harry shot !!!!

Finally - you know Filch and his gun - his canon - that keep going off prematurely. I thought of 2 things:

1. A joke about the use of canon.

2. A joke about Wimsey and the chekovian guns that must be fired concept.

Here was a completely non-canon cannon, that fired prematurely and for no reason throughout the movie.

I wouldn't put it past the screenwriters to spend some time in here perusing the theories.

DarwinMayflower

July 9th, 2007, 9:58 am

Previous Movie Posts
Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?p=4008974#post4008974)
Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?p=4194472#4194472)
Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?p=4458336#4458336)

Previous Chapter Post
GoF Chp 1: The Riddle House (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?p=4466355#4466355)
GoF Chp 2: The Port Key (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?p=4469812#4469812)
GoF Chp 3: The Quidditch World Cup (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?p=4486249#4486249)
GoF Chp 4: The Dark Mark (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?p=4490175#4490175)
GoF Chp 5: The Tri-Wizard Tournament (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?p=4500080#4500080)
GoF Chp 6: The Goblet of Fire (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?p=4503906#4503906)
GoF Chp 7: The Unforgivable Curses (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?p=4509248#4509248)
GoF Chp 8: The Four Champions (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?p=4526093#4526093)
GoF Chp 9: Let Events Unfold
GoF Chp 10: Rita Skeeter (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?p=4567217#4567217)
GoF Chp 11: Sirius Conversation (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?p=4594581#4594581)
GoF Chp 12: The Hungarian Horntail (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?p=4602952#4602952)
GoF Chp 13: Transforming Malfoy (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?p=4609679#4609679)

Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire Chapter 14: The First Task (Part 1)

A first for the thread. Instead of a chapter merger we are presented with the first of a split of the chapter. Basically I'll be splitting this one in two parts, the first being scenes before the actual first task with Harry and then the actual first task with Harry. I hope that no one particularly minds since I think there is quite a lot to be seen here.

To start off, I really dislike this introduction to the stadium. It is a great scenic shot;
http://img110.imageshack.us/img110/3731/scenicph3.jpg
but in terms of movie logic it sort of falls flat. If you look at the geography of where the stadium is located it sort of makes you wonder whether if getting to the stadium is as grueling as the first task. It does make sense that they would want the dragons as far as possible from the castle so they don't create collateral damage while at the same time almost mimicking the craggy and usual residence of dragons (mountains, caves and all the stoney bits) but it just seems so inefficient for students to actually attend this event. Unless there's a shuttle broom or temporary floo network stop created, it seems very inconvinient. I mean mountain goats would probably have a hard time with scaling the heights and cliffs of this place. While people might complain about the relocation of Hagrid's Hut from CoS to PoA, they should be also complaining about this little mishap of urban planning.
http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/4203/hardtogetyu7.jpg

As we hear the Twins being the lovable twins they are it does present an interesting little deviation or even substitute to their gambling dealings with Bagman. Instead their gambling activities are done by being bookies amongst the students of which could be an easy explanation as to why or how they got their start-up galleons for Weasley Wheezing Wheezies. It's unfortunate that Newall's hit and miss cinematography of making documentary crowd shots is even more unfocused here, to the point that unless you actually slow down and pause the scene you can't make out where the Twins are in the stands. You can hear them, but it's just shot so haphazardly that you need your own pair of Omninoculars to find them. I'm keen on finding things running at normal speed, but this is the first time I had to actually pause to find something.
http://img295.imageshack.us/img295/2484/wherect7.jpg

Inside the tent we see more of the anachronistic objects which is akin to the badges seen earlier (sorry guys I have a word a day calender). Out of all the modern adpotions the wizarding world has, it seems in this very tent has the most direct adaption of muggle items for the wizarding world. It's quite interesting to see it in this type of context because every other modern muggle item is accepted as a necessity. I mean toilets? Of course you would want modern plumbing and fixtures. Carriages? Sure. Trains? They're magical enough.
http://img75.imageshack.us/img75/1525/togglesyd3zv2.th.jpg (http://img75.imageshack.us/my.php?image=togglesyd3zv2.jpg)
But toggles? Track suits? Glass juice kegs? Seems a bit of a stretch. Not that I mind, but it is interesting how each director sort of interprets how much muggle cultural influence is allowed within the Potterverse.

Aside from the most fabulous Harmonian moment, the rest of the scene plays out between snippets of good performances of characters (not great) and trainwrecks of why WHY WHY?! First the horrible.

Ludo Bagman: What's that you say? He isn't IN THE FILM? Actually no I don't have colour blindness for yellow but after re-reading some of the text and just finally clicking in, it seems that the acting result of both Crouch and Dumbledore in this scene is mainly for the sole reason to have the spirit of this deleted character in the film.

It's quite sad that it really seemed more of wall street of personalities where "People got to trade back and forth their intended personalities for someone else's." Dumbledore's cheeriness is far too bright and enthusiastic in the shallow showmanship sort of way...much like how Bagman was. It sort of echoes the performance of him presenting the Tri-Wizard tournament in the first place. Crouch also showed the same sort of Ludo showmanship in exclaiming how someone got the exotic Chinese Fireball (of which I have yet to decide was racist or not). However I personally feel that Dumbledore was handled pretty poorly here. If Franken-Crouch was supposed to be a Bagman avatar, then at least leave him the opening Dumbledore lines talking to the champions and have Gambon be more of a watchful hawk than a chattering parrot. He is more concerned when Harry chose his dragon though. What's worst is that in the most horrendous possible way they try to show Crouch's tyrannical preference for order in the most annoying way. He's a steel gripped politician, not an annoying obsessive compulsive.

Oh yeah as for the kids, Watson was a bit restrained, but I still saw her eyebrows itching to act more than her. Radcliffe...was decent. Another sub-plot was introduced only to be tossed away into the wind, I did especially like the seething anger that Hermione was directing towards Skeeter which sadly never comes to any sort of fruitation or vengence.

However the actual good performances were just that, good. Not great, but good. Richardson is great as Skeeter, even though the Quick-Quotes Quill is one of the less impressive CGI that I've seen in the film. It looks far too bright and stands out way too much, which I guess is for a reason...you have to be able to see it. It is great that in this scene the QQQ actually mimics Skeeter's movements and feelings; far better than in GoF Chp 10. It really adds a nice little bit of personality to it. A nice little character rounding moment was done for Krum, he just exudes honour in that one single line and dispels his superstardom during the QWC or at least how he feels about it himself.
http://img110.imageshack.us/img110/9866/sickbi2.jpg
As for Cedric, I love that little nervous hiccup that he had before he went out first. A nice little departure from him looking a bit green from the book, but it's a nice loaded look. It shows that even a 7th year is quite nervous about a task like this and more importantly that perhaps his modesty is overpowering the confidence in his own abilities.

As much as the film is supposed to be focused on Harry, I'm quite disappointed as to the lack of showing the other champions compete because of the severe lack of DRAGON AWESOMENESS! :td: At the same time so much could have been done to make the build up a bit better than just a fade in to Harry sitting on a bed. I remember when I was competitively swimming, that what gets your heart racing isn't so much the event itself, but how the event just comes at you, the months become days and the days becomes hours. And when it actually comes to the swim meet you're in, you just count down the heats (events) until it's your turn. It just happens so fast and suddenly you're there at the starting line, on the field, on the starting block, at the face off, at the kick off whatever. I think just continuing with the cannon with some great fast cuts of Harry sweating it out and hearing snippets of commentary would have been a great contrast the silence that Harry faces when he enters the arena. Although a bit cheesy, it would have worked better than the bland fade in. That's what competition is about.

All in all a scene that could have benefitted from some things, but probably not. Who knows.

Things of Note

Music used in the scene (http://www.amazon.com/Harry-Potter-Goblet-Stuart-Cassells/dp/B000BGH22W/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/002-9513408-3692803?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1176962363&sr=1-1): Track 10: Golden Egg.
Music Cue list greatly supplied by The Harry Potter Lexicon (http://www.hp-lexicon.org/about/films/gf/film_gf-soundtrack.html)

The Twins' odds on Harry ain't too great is it now? I think it reads 39 to 1, whereas Fleur has a biased 10:1, Cedric a modest 5:1 and Krum shoeing to survive by their words at 7:4.
http://img110.imageshack.us/img110/8264/oddsul5.jpg

It's nice to see there are refreshements for the champions, which makes me wonder if gatorade has sponsered this at all.
http://img110.imageshack.us/img110/3473/refreshmentsgx8.jpg

http://img75.imageshack.us/img75/7671/batmananimatedserieslogrx8.jpg + http://img75.imageshack.us/img75/3606/pdbkbtm0001uf2.jpg = http://img120.imageshack.us/img120/8726/batmanfk4.jpg
Really...does ANYONE else think this? I mean she has the BATMAN GAUNLETS ON! I at least like the implied devil/demon horns in Skeeter's hair. She is pretty darn evil.

There's a real nice bit of symbolism here when Barty is explaning the goal of the First Task. In each shot of the champions, you see partially each Headmaster backing (or in some cases standing by) their champions with the exception of Cedric. It's shows a nice bit of the relationship as to who Dumbledore is closer to for obvious reasons, but also could visually foreshadow Cedric's death and aloneness in this particular installment. Poor poor Cedric.

http://img110.imageshack.us/img110/931/behind1ju6.jpg http://img223.imageshack.us/img223/1250/behind2vl3.jpg
http://img120.imageshack.us/img120/7415/behind3cf8.jpg http://img110.imageshack.us/img110/6184/behind4vh2.jpg

Dark Emperor

July 9th, 2007, 10:34 am

Ahhh yes. The scene where Crouch loses the rest of his believability as a serious character by going "Oooooooooh" after introducing the Chinese Fireball.

Apart from that, I didn't mind....

Undrhil

July 9th, 2007, 10:40 am

This chapter reminded me why I prefer the books to the movies. As you said, the build-up to Harry's turn is what makes this a great chapter in the book, so much so that you actually want to find out what the other champions did to get their egg. I was disappointed that there was no score tally at the end of the task and it makes me wonder how they came up with the scores for the end of the second task.

I thought the scene with Harry and Hermione was a bit overdone, but they had to throw something like that in there so the scene later with Hermione reading the Daily Prophet article would make more sense. On the other hand, Krum's line "This tent is only for Champions ... and friends." was very stoic and stood out since it was one of the only times we hear Krum speak in the movie.

I didn't like the way their portrayed Rita Skeeter. She wasn't so blatent about getting interviews in the book, except for the one she got with Harry originally and the one she got with Hagrid. The rest of the time, she was in her Animagus form in the book. But, I guess the film makers didn't want to go through with the whole animagus subplot, since they sort of brushed over it in Prisoner of Azkaban. I wish they had included it, though, since it would have meant that she wouldn't have been in this scene at all. :)

I think they added the misfiring of the cannons as a bit of humor. This movie is quite dark as compared to the first three, especially when considering the ending. So, every bit of humor helps to lighten it. That's why they had the scene with the twins fighting as old men (they didn't do this in the book) and the scene with Snape smacking the boys on the back of the head during the Yule Ball discussion. Also, it shows that Filch is quite inept when it comes to things which shouldn't be that hard to do. I'm not sure why they are putting Filch in this light; his character from the books is much more sinister than that.

EDIT: DarwinMayflower - just thought I would let you know that all of the links Chapter 1 to Chapter 10 don't work. They bring me to a "No thread specified" page. Is it just my browser not working or was that thread deleted?

yoshi2542

July 9th, 2007, 12:17 pm

I want to like this scene, but I just can't. Aside from Dumbledore's triple take when he sees Hermione, the rest is boring. It seems like the meat of the scene is spread far too thinly over the multitude of characters here. Hermione talks to Harry, hugs him, then Skeeter enters, then Krum defends Hermione, Dumbledore and his posse enter, it just lurches around and never does anything interesting or focusses on anything. This is one of those scenes where Cuaron's lighting, detail and camera style would really help the scene.

There is also some bad dubbing when DD says 'the bag' his lips aren't moving. And one of the things that annoys me most is how this scene is the first (aside from the flashback in COS) where Dumbledore isn't wearing glasses. I am not normally picky about this sort of thing, but Gambon looks so much like Dumbledore with the glasses on, and a little too much like Mike Gambon in a wig and beard without them.

DarwinMayflower

July 9th, 2007, 5:17 pm

EDIT: DarwinMayflower - just thought I would let you know that all of the links Chapter 1 to Chapter 10 don't work. They bring me to a "No thread specified" page. Is it just my browser not working or was that thread deleted?
How astute of you! I'm quite sad to inform that original thread has been deleted. The good thing is that I've managed to save an archived copy of the thread and for future reference be posting it to a livejournal that I've set up of the same content. So just to tell new viewers if they want to read some of the past discussions or even comment on them on the journal itself, I'll be posting them up during the CoSForums shutdown for Book 7.

I should take this time to mention that I might actually continue discussion of GoF on that livejournal account during that 10 day shutdown, but most likely not since everyone else would be busy with a Hallow of Death.

Tabris93

July 9th, 2007, 7:30 pm

What I like the most with this scene is the brilliant way it manages to capture the tension and nervousness of Harry, his feeling of being too young, too unprepared and too alone.

I do not like Hermione in this scene at all. Unfortunately, I don't really like Hermione at all in this movie. Which is a shame, as I think Emma Watson portrayed Hermione almost to perfection in the first two movies and did a very good job in PoA. The mix of acting with her eyebrows and overacting in just about every scene in this movie makes me cringe. I really hope she does it better in OotP, as I am quite convinced of her capability.

I was disappointed too, about losing Ludo Bagman. (As I am disappointed about every deviation from the book ;)). But I can understand it - this movie introduce loads of new characters, and I believe non-readers will have problem keeping up already. So instead of making GoF into the long movie it should have been - or maybe even two movies or a mini series - they chop it to pieces and sow it together to the best of their abilities, and this is what you get.

Barty Crouch Sr. is... weird. I have no word - neither in English nor Norwegian - to explain how I feel about his character in the movie. I can't put my finger on it, but he is so extremly odd! I never noticed the "Ooooh!"-line until someone here at CoS had a screenshot up - and I laugh myself silly everytime I see it now.

Yes, I noticed too that Gambon often doesn't use the Dumbledore glasses. Why is that?! There is no good reason for it, and makes me dislike his version of Dumbledore even more (if that was possible). As in all of PoA and GoF, I don't see a trace of Dumbledore in this scene either.

When the canon fires, there is a very small scene of Rita Skeeter clutching herself to Cedric in suprise, and gives him a sly grin when she detaches herself from him afterwards. Quite a nice detail in the background.

I love Cedric's reaction too. Very believable. And when Harry sits there alone, listening to the commentaries, I can feel my gut clenching like his surely must be doing. Love that scene - the atmosphere in that little moment is as close to the book as anything.

DarwinMayflower

July 9th, 2007, 9:02 pm

I didn't like the way their portrayed Rita Skeeter. She wasn't so blatent about getting interviews in the book, except for the one she got with Harry originally and the one she got with Hagrid. The rest of the time, she was in her Animagus form in the book. But, I guess the film makers didn't want to go through with the whole animagus subplot, since they sort of brushed over it in Prisoner of Azkaban. I wish they had included it, though, since it would have meant that she wouldn't have been in this scene at all. :)
From what we see it seems that Skeeter is just another supporting character that's just tossed to the side. It's quite bad because there is no sort of finality to most of the secondary characters in this film as opposed to previous ones. Even the first two touch base on certain characters that appeared in the film. Even the small instances that try to mimic the previous three's little stop in to see what this character thinks about the end or even giving some characters a certain sort of finality never really feels final. Instead of a send off they are tossed into the rubbish.
I think they added the misfiring of the cannons as a bit of humor. This movie is quite dark as compared to the first three, especially when considering the ending. So, every bit of humor helps to lighten it. That's why they had the scene with the twins fighting as old men (they didn't do this in the book) and the scene with Snape smacking the boys on the back of the head during the Yule Ball discussion. Also, it shows that Filch is quite inept when it comes to things which shouldn't be that hard to do. I'm not sure why they are putting Filch in this light; his character from the books is much more sinister than that.
Well Filch was always a sort of all bark no bite character in the books, at least IMHO. He was mean but he is more of a Groundskeeper Willy type than a Frankenstein's Igor type. It's just that even Filch is deadly serious, what is funny is the situations that he gets into, much like Willy.

The humour, I don't think that the movie is especially dark. Exciting perhaps, but not especially dark. There's nothing especially sinister in the series nor does it ever reach that highpoint like the more thrilling aspects of GoF. I think the scene with the Twins fighting was...decent but not as great as the novel because the novel was just as funny if not more with Dumbledore being more humourous than his usual self. But I could understand why they went that route, perhaps to offer a better transition to show Krum putting in his name.
What I like the most with this scene is the brilliant way it manages to capture the tension and nervousness of Harry, his feeling of being too young, too unprepared and too alone.
It's kind of funny because I never really gotten that feeling. I mean it is there if you pick it out, but it's these kind of things that interest me as to how a fresh pair of eyes sees the film differently from anothers. To me the direction just clutters up everything for me and I treat this scene more of a mishmash of things happening or preparations for the First Task as opposed to Harry being nervous. It's like you taken a stance of seeing Harry's feelings and emotions whereas I've taken one on seeing what's happening in the tent as a whole.
I do not like Hermione in this scene at all. Unfortunately, I don't really like Hermione at all in this movie. Which is a shame, as I think Emma Watson portrayed Hermione almost to perfection in the first two movies and did a very good job in PoA. The mix of acting with her eyebrows and overacting in just about every scene in this movie makes me cringe. I really hope she does it better in OotP, as I am quite convinced of her capability.
I blame Felton for that. I think that her punch to Felton's face from PoA probably transferred his eyebrow acting from CoS to her. Or she thinks that he's just so cool on the set and wants to emulate him. Either way Draco Malfoy has ruined things in more ways than one. CURSE YOU MALFOY!
When the canon fires, there is a very small scene of Rita Skeeter clutching herself to Cedric in suprise, and gives him a sly grin when she detaches herself from him afterwards. Quite a nice detail in the background.
Thanks! I'll make a mental note of that a put it in the things of note
I want to like this scene, but I just can't. Aside from Dumbledore's triple take when he sees Hermione, the rest is boring. It seems like the meat of the scene is spread far too thinly over the multitude of characters here. Hermione talks to Harry, hugs him, then Skeeter enters, then Krum defends Hermione, Dumbledore and his posse enter, it just lurches around and never does anything interesting or focusses on anything. This is one of those scenes where Cuaron's lighting, detail and camera style would really help the scene.
The problem is that even I can't think of anyway to streamline that to something more sigificant. It's not Newall's fault, Kloves' fault or even JKR's fault. It's just that this book is just so darn dense and the focus is hard since it's totally split. I was going to save this for the end of the movie, but so far this really seems like a film that doesn't flow at all. I mean even the start of this chapter, LOOK AT THE EDIT OF IT. We see Moody's office and then BANG right to the stadium. Ok I'm all for getting to the point, but this is just like a smash cut right here. The scenes themselves are constructed well at times, but there's no continuation that ever makes this film seem more than a edited nightmare of events strung together. You never get a sense of the previous scene having a bearing with the current one.
There is also some bad dubbing when DD says 'the bag' his lips aren't moving. And one of the things that annoys me most is how this scene is the first (aside from the flashback in COS) where Dumbledore isn't wearing glasses. I am not normally picky about this sort of thing, but Gambon looks so much like Dumbledore with the glasses on, and a little too much like Mike Gambon in a wig and beard without them.
I'll add that as well. Thanks!

lindaluna

July 10th, 2007, 7:33 am

As much as the film is supposed to be focused on Harry, I'm quite disappointed as to the lack of showing the other champions compete because of the severe lack of DRAGON AWESOMENESS! :td: At the same time so much could have been done to make the build up a bit better than just a fade in to Harry sitting on a bed.

I agree - waiting in the tent is not nearly so much fun as actually seeing the dragons and the other tasks.

In the books, when Ron re-caps it - we get almost the same flavor (it's all type on a page after all) but it's really lacking from the movie. Also those mini-dragons looked so good!

And the stadium was too small. Only about 20 extras all in one corner. The scale was all wrong to me outside to inside.

I have a new phrase for Hermione / Emma Watson that has nothing to do with her eyebrows. From watching the OOP clips in mute I'm now calling her "Hermione the Hyperventilator". She seems to feel that vaso vagal manoevers give her acting a realism that ordinary ventilation lacks. She looked fantastic at the Los Angeles premiere though. She seems very skinny. I wonder if she gets anorexic under stress.

When I watched GOF in the theaters (about 20 times) I thought Cedric was really low key. On DVD tho' he's perfect on repeated (about 200) showings. Rita was completely meaningless & could have been cut. They could have coached Krum character to deliver his line a little better. After all Alfred Enoch (Dean Thomas) gets only one line per movie and he can usually get it out credibly.

Why the heck were Harry and Hermione talking to each other from the sides of the tent like that - then only to break down the barrier ?

I mean anyone who has been in a real tent would never do that. *sigh*

You know Filch and his gun - his canon - that keep going off prematurely. I thought of 2 things:

1. A joke about the use of canon.

2. A joke about Wimsey and the chekovian guns that must be fired concept.

Here was a completely non-canon cannon, that fired prematurely and for no reason throughout the movie.

Let me explain. Wimsey is of course completely correct, the gun on the wall in the first act must be fired in the third act, IF you are a good writer, and you are not working with JKR, who has a wall full of guns, and characters that go off & on for no reason. Enter our screenwriter, and JKR's world, where really each book is one part of a 7 act series.

Alone at midnight, candle burning, screenwriter with cheap california red wine, sobbing.

Screenwriter: Canon - everyone wants canon....I know that the gun is supposed to fire in the third act, but which gun? what is the third act? this book is just a couple of scenes from the second act! I'm so inept!

Screenwriter: What am I supposed to do ? *reverie*

Dumbledore/Wimsey: On three, one - two - ...
Filch/Screenwriter: One *bam* ... oh darn it!

Screenwriter starts to giggle drunkenly.

Screenwriter: Wait.... I have an idea....

Hermaryne

July 10th, 2007, 8:47 pm

The good thing is that I've managed to save an archived copy of the thread and for future reference be posting it to a livejournal that I've set up of the same content. So just to tell new viewers if they want to read some of the past discussions or even comment on them on the journal itself, I'll be posting them up during the CoSForums shutdown for Book 7.

Good, me likes this thread!

Just popped in for the first time and discovered people discussing lighting, set-dressing, wardrobe and props (swoons).

I'm not a huge GoF fan but I'd like to read the PoA thread. What is the address for the live journal?

Kudos to all!

DarwinMayflower

July 12th, 2007, 5:02 am

Announcement for this Thread during the Forum Closure

As July 14th approaches, obviously we won't be able to post diddly about the chapter discussions. We're either too busy with both OoTP and DH being released that I've decided to also take a break. As for most of you and newcomers to the thread (no doubt sparked by the movie) want to read the older posts, you'll have to direct your attention to:

My Livejournal http://mcpotterdore.livejournal.com/ (http://mcpotterdore.livejournal.com/).

Starting tonight I'll be posting the previous chapter posts (with some ammendments and additions) to this livejournal starting from GoF Chp 10 and BACKWARDS. Aside from editing and needing to do some HTML work here and there, most of the thread should be completed by the weekend. All the chapter posts that I've done will be up there from PS all the way up to GoF and now.

I should mention that despite me just making a semi-permanent archive of the thread, this also presents a revived oppurtunity for anyone who wishes to comment or discuss the movies through the livejournal post comments. Comment on one or all of them I don't care I'm always up for a bit o a chit chat.

In other news, I might make a chatroom availble for anyone who wishes to discuss anything with me during the forum closure period. I'm sure that many of you think me a horrible tyrant and fear the mere shadow of my internet presence to try and muster up enough gusto to talk to me, but I'm not. The chatroom details will come in the next post when I find something reliable to have a chat with.

Other than that, regards and probably see you in a week or two.

Undrhil

July 12th, 2007, 6:41 am

Why don't you go ahead and post this thread on your LiveJournal page as well? That way, people who find out about this discussion during the forum blackout will be able to be caught up when the forum reopens.

DarwinMayflower

July 24th, 2007, 2:31 am

CrazyMuggle

July 24th, 2007, 6:57 pm

I know there's a lot of people on these boards who absolutely hate this scene and claim it "goes on forever" but I personally love it! If they had stuck to what happened in the book, for a film, it wouldn't have been exciting. Being chased around Hogwarts made for a great visual shot and I loved the bit of tension on the rooftops with Harry struggling to get his broom as the dragon is pursuing him. Btw, the dragon looked AMAZING! Like Darwin said, from the fire sacks to the way it moved, it looked real. The transition is a little strange, as is how everyone in the Common Room stops talking and cheering when Ron walks in ("What the bloody hell was that?") but all in all, I thought it was a fun/exciting scene.

Tabris93

July 24th, 2007, 8:17 pm

DarwinMayflower

July 25th, 2007, 7:40 am

Oh. The dragon scene.

Let me start off by saying that I loved the dragon. I can not imagine a single thing that could make it look more magnificient, scarier or more... dragon-like than this one.

I also love every moment of action that goes on at the "dragon arena". Well, maybe except Watson's insane squeals. Then again, Hermione is supposed to be high-strung, and she does squeal...

Harry hides from the dragon - briliant. He finally has a vacant second to summon his broom - brilliant. He jumps on the Firebolt and you start to see his skill as a flyer, and where he feels at home - wonderful.

Then they leave the area - and I leave to get a cup of coffe or some more popcorn.
ROFL I'm glad I'm not the only one that seems to think about this. It's too bad my fascination for DRAGONS DRAGONS AND MORE DRAGONS keep me glued to the scene.

I have nothing to say on the cgi, neither do I have any complaints about Radcliffe's acting. But everything from where they leave the stadium is - in my opinion - completely useless and waste of precious, precious time in a movie where they have already had to make brutal cuts from the book due to time problems.

So why did they feel the need to add this cringe-worthy, horrible cliffhanger-scene? For excitement? Action-purposes? If there ever was a HP-book that had action in it, it was GoF. First you have the Quidditch World Cup, then the Dark Mark Scene. Then you have three heavy tasks filled with action - and to top it off you have the return of Voldemort and the revelation of Barty Crouch Jr. Not to mention the "Parting of the Ways", which they excluded.

There are tons of canon action stuff in the book to pick from. So much, in fact, that they couldn't fit it all. So much is going on in the book, that they had to cut S.P.E.W. - a great subplot - amongst other things. There is no need to add more action. It's an insult to JKR to prolong the dragon scene like they had done. Like her own action scenes aren't good enough.

And, no, I don't buy the argument that it wouldn't be exciting on screen. Not at all. I find the arena scene very exciting. And as soon as Harry is on that broom, it's not supposed to be that thrilling anymore - because he knows what he is doing. He is in control. In the movie, he wasn't in control at all, doing cliffhanger-stunts.
Well I'm not entirely against your opinion of inclusion of other sub-plots and storylines in the novel for the movie (which is a lie, I'm probably more against it that I state I am) but IMHO I don't think that taking out something such as time from the dragon car chase sequence:whistle: is the movie equivalent of say...packing luggage. That's like saying if you take out that clock radio which is probably useless, you'd could easily add in like 5 more useful pairs of socks. It's just that because you could probably fit something in there, should you? I think in filmmaking in general they aren't so much looking at the length of a film (although that is a big thing to look at) but they are looking at what makes the film capable of being the film. Pace, efficient production of ideas etc.

Like take for instance the inclusion of Borgin and Burke's in CoS. I know that it's quite a broken record to bring it up, but just to show something as simple as Borgin and Burke's whose importance must be shown but that scene itself is quite a bit of filler, at least to me. There's a definate beginning, middle and end for that place of which a simple scene such as that; could bog a film down dramatically. However I must admit, I can't watch CoS again without Borgin and Burke's without feeling like I was missing something since I'm so used to watching it now (about like half a dozen times) but I guess that is one of the points of filmmaking. With OoTP out, I felt it was done pretty well despite what was cut out and yet it still missed a few things that really *really* fleshed it out. It wasn't necessarily the cuts from the novel, but more how the film sort of regarded itself...whether it was comfortable enough to consider itself complete.

However in regards to the action sequence, I have the same feeling of resentment (as a whole) as you do but for different reasons. Mainly that the film really never decided to take that potential action sequence and make it's own. It didn't take the chance to make a Harry Potterverse action sequence as opposed to making an action sequence with Potterverse details; my nickname for the Dragon Car Chase Scene. It isn't to say that I didn't like it, but I didn't love it. I mean if you replaced Harry and the Dragon with airplanes...bang......there you go how is it any different from any other dogfight sequence? I mean having Harry hang off the roof...lame. It looked like something out of a B-Movie.

But this really brings up a point about how filmmaking the Potterverse should be. As much as JKR did a wonderful job with her own action sequences (and replying to your own observations of how much action that GoF has) there are times that they really don't sell it. The directors don't make the sequence theirs or unique to the film. This isn't to say that every film should be groundbreaking and completly original, but to be shot in such a way where you believe that this action sequence exists in that filmverse and that filmverse alone. That's why I love quidditch so much in PoA.

I mean I could watch the action sequences to in 300 over and over again despite them being quite short a times. It's a work of art and there isn't anything new to the film but it just works in such a great kickbutt way that it makes that massacre look almost poetic. However in comparison to say The Matrix Revolutions with it's 20 minute action sequence of guns ablazing, giant mechs vs. evil robots; it's not just overkill, but I didn't believe in that world. It just seemed so generic. Another comparison is the ship battles in POTC1 which I could watch over and over again as well, but at the same time POTC3 where it pushed the envelope with a ship battle in a huge whirlpool, it was boring to me. Drawn out and just unbelievable. Another one from that series, the sword fights which was superior to even POCT2's sword fights despite being between 3 people and on a giant water mill wheel. They have the same concept of fantastic battles, but I felt POTC1's was more genuine.

It's not to knock JKR, but I really think that Newall and Kloves got a pretty bum rap for this film especially. I mean can you imagine how many people are just saying GoF is going to be the turning point for the series...totally. There are going to be 3.5 huge action sequences in this film along with Hogwarts itself so go at 'er guys...just make sure you make it the action film it is in the books but keep it like the books. I could almost imagine Newall having this cut up nightmare to work with and trying to make a coherent movie out of it. I mean he done well enough but I always get the feeling he's making this film either piecemeal or by the skin of his teeth. It's like one scene at a time here boyo which I almost love because each and every Task is like a mini movie unto itself with a beginning, middle and end. But at the same time that's the fault...it drags away from the rest of the storyline. In some respect I could easily picture a more downplayed on action film of GoF with shorter Task sequences to the point of each being as long as CoS's carflight action sequence. The latter two tasks are pretty impressive, I can't really imagine them any different but even moreso imagine if the dragon scene was shorter and just downplayed...it'd totally feel inconsistent which is something I always think should be vital in making a film good.

Well I'm not making excuses really or really going entirely against your opinion but it's just to show a different opinion with the same conclusion...GoF is a mess of a film at times, adaption-wise and filmwise. It's just that to me with this film it raises more could haves as a film as opposed to the other films. Whereas PS and CoS have a certain content completeness to each film (which I begrudgingly admit :P) and PoA has it's completeness as a film; GoF just feels like something that could have been more filmwise but wasn't.

Tabris93

July 25th, 2007, 9:14 am

To put it this way:

The dragon scene didn't necessarily have to be shorter in my opinion (love your car change analogy!), but from the moment he gets on the Firebolt, they should have stuck to the book. Meaning - keeping the action in the arena, letting Harry show his talent on his broomstick.

Like he says himself in OotP - most of what he has managed throughout the books are based on chance, luck and some nerve. The same with the dragon car chase in the movie. But in the book, it was skill that saved him. Skill on a broomstick. That is - to me - quite a different manner. Edit and change enough of these little things, and soon movie!Harry isn't the same as book!Harry. (Just as those changes have made movie!Dumbledore into... *sensures herself*... well, let's just say a man that is very different from book!Dumbledore).

Like other people have said here - they believe the important thing is to get the point across, and not necessarily keep all the details true to the book. Well, the point in this scene - as I see it - was that Harry's skill saved him - that point was changed.

lindaluna

July 26th, 2007, 12:53 pm

Btw, the dragon looked AMAZING! Like Darwin said, from the fire sacks to the way it moved, it looked real.

I did like the dragon clawing across the rooftop toward Harry.

I didn't really understand how a dragon would lose it's balance in mid-air after colliding with a bridge while a human on a burnt up broom would be fine.

Must say - after seeing OOP - Newell had beautiful scenic shots. Lovely! :relax:

DarwinMayflower

July 28th, 2007, 10:11 am

Tabris93

July 28th, 2007, 12:53 pm

There is something so incredibly cute with Dan in the entire breakfast-scene. It's very hard to describe, but as he sits there, arm in a sling, trying to munch down his breakfast while listening to "how he deals with yet another emotional blow". I don't know... I just find him adorable here. The entire scene is very funny. Hermione's indignant "Bulgarian bong-bong" cracks me up every time.

For some reason that I have never understood, Ginny has been disliked quite a bit in fandom - both in the books and the movies. I think she is brilliant, and Bonnie Wright makes an excellent Ginny! Her "It's ghastly" is so wonderfully English that it makes my toes curl.

I am a bit torn too, during the "best foot forward"-scene. It is hilarious, and Maggie Smith is maybe the closest to her book character than any other of the actors in all the movies. The twins have so much charm it should be made illegal - and I love Harry's little push when Ron is supposed to get up. And his very, very content grin - like he is really enjoying this. (And maybe a small pun to Ron giving him a little push in the Hippogriff-scene in PoA?). But, like you said, it's just a movie scene. Maybe just to establish the dance?

Ron's remark was mean. Then again, Ron can sometimes be mean - and very insensitive. Not to mention that it is highly believable that boys in that age would make remarks like that.

Filch is very funny in GoF, but it seems to me that they have thrown all canon overboard and turned him into this uncanon, out-of-the-blue funny clown character. Shame.

lindaluna

July 28th, 2007, 5:23 pm

Ron can be mean - he's mean to Moaning Myrtle all the time and Luna comments on it.

I liked that scene tremendously. Particularly: very school - a DANCE !!!!
girls eager - leap to their feet
boys slouch down - looking away
sets up dating issues that arise later.
Neville sees his opportunity and is first to rise - this is Neville's turn around !!!
Ron and McGonagall - fantastic - "my waist!"
Twins joking about McGonagall being given the worst line in acting history "babbling, bumbling band of baboons" - a huge joke on what a great actress DAME Maggie Smith is and an injoke about how terrible the screenwriter is.
Filch's cat has RED eyes in that scene *sigh for what might have been*

I loved that scene!!! That scene made Hogwarts a school like any other, which, in love, the witchettes and wizlings are.

Filch is very funny in GoF, but it seems to me that they have thrown all canon overboard and turned him into this uncanon, out-of-the-blue funny clown character. Shame.
Continued in Movie 5 ! Not scary anymore - but maybe that reflects also on growing up.

Things of Note

Floating tray of toast is in the background of the breakfast scene.

Those were so distracting !!! I hated them. I noticed Yates paid reference to them by having same trays of toast STATIONARY ON THE TABLE in his scenes. (Yates - continuity with improvement !)

Newell seemed to think floating things was a sign of magic (see books in library).

CrazyMuggle

July 31st, 2007, 5:38 am

I was glad to finally see a "breakfast scene" in Hogwarts (not sure if the other films ever showed them eating breakfast--usually just studying in the Great Hall.) I liked seeing things like donuts and cereal boxes floating around, giving Hogwarts that whole "magicky" feel (in the library as well.) Anyway, I thought McGonnagall teaching the students to dance (leading an example with Ron) was a very funny addition and the twins' made it even funnier (LOVE the wolf-whistle:lol:). And... was Ron about to give them the finger? A funny scene that transitions well into Harry/Ron searching for dates.

DarwinMayflower

August 1st, 2007, 7:14 am

Ron can be mean - he's mean to Moaning Myrtle all the time and Luna comments on it.
I know he could be mean, but I think that making fun of someone's physical appearance (especially one who doesn't deserve it) seems far too mean. I mean it's bad enough that she would be embarassed about her weight to dance with a boy; but for Ron to act that way really sort of hit a sore spot for political correctness and manners for me. He's more of a personality insulter rather than an appearance insulter. However a lot of appearance based observations have been made throughout this film. Moody's description of Fleur and Krum; Ron's little comment; the greasy hair comment on Draco. I wouldn't have thought of that until you brought this point up.
Those were so distracting !!! I hated them. I noticed Yates paid reference to them by having same trays of toast STATIONARY ON THE TABLE in his scenes. (Yates - continuity with improvement !)
I'll have to check that out the next time I see OoTP. Thanks for the information.
Newell seemed to think floating things was a sign of magic (see books in library).
Well it is kind of sad how we think of the magical world of HP because I think Cuaron and even Columbus had a pretty good way of showing it, but Newall it just seems so...pedestrian and lame at times.

Previous Movie Posts
Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?p=4008974#post4008974)
Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?p=4194472#4194472)
Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?p=4458336#4458336)

Previous Chapter Post
GoF Chp 1: The Riddle House (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?p=4466355#4466355)
GoF Chp 2: The Port Key (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?p=4469812#4469812)
GoF Chp 3: The Quidditch World Cup (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?p=4486249#4486249)
GoF Chp 4: The Dark Mark (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?p=4490175#4490175)
GoF Chp 5: The Tri-Wizard Tournament (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?p=4500080#4500080)
GoF Chp 6: The Goblet of Fire (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?p=4503906#4503906)
GoF Chp 7: The Unforgivable Curses (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?p=4509248#4509248)
GoF Chp 8: The Four Champions (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?p=4526093#4526093)
GoF Chp 9: Let Events Unfold
GoF Chp 10: Rita Skeeter (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?p=4567217#4567217)
GoF Chp 11: Sirius Conversation (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?p=4594581#4594581)
GoF Chp 12: The Hungarian Horntail (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?p=4602952#4602952)
GoF Chp 13: Transforming Malfoy (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?p=4609679#4609679)
GoF Chp 14: The First Task (Part 1) (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?p=4620512#4620512)
GoF Chp 14: The First Task (Part 2) (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?p=4632787#4632787)
GoF Chp 15: Best Foot Forward (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?p=4665708#4665708)

Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire Chapter 16: An Unexpected Challenge

Love is in the air. I thought that was reserved for spring but I guess Fall and Winter has their own agendas. Curse you cold wights of evil that force us to warm our hearts with love.

Speaking of which, hilarity ensues. I don't have much to say at the time since I am tired, but I'd like to start off with some major points:

Twins steal the show. Love them to death. I'm surprised at the amount of screentime they got this time around but it's just awesome.

Maxine eating a but out of Hagrid's beard. As nice as the nuance and the aborted going in for a kiss by Maxine before Hagrid turns away to ask about her. What the heck? Maxine eating bugs out of Hagrid's beard? I find this peculiar and downright insulting to a certain degree because it makes it to seem that Giants are like a bunch of chimps eating bugs out of their fur. Not even that, but it totally sends the wrong message about Giants in the first place. Sure if she like...taken a rock and tossed it at a squirrel fine. But eating a bug out of Hagrid's beard? Especially when they don't include the sub-plot about Skeeter telling the world that Hagrid is half giant? Don't even include it. It doesn't advance anything at all other than to gross people out with humour from the 80's.

But a very nice thought has popped into my mind. What if that bug that Maxine ate was Rita Skeeter in her ANIMAGUS FORM? OOOOOOOOOO REVENGE IS SOOOOOO SWEEEET[/SNAPE] GGPO Mrs. Skeeter. No wonder she wasn't present in OoTP, she got eaten and digested. ROFL I love a happy ending. All that is missing is the high pitch wail of HELLLP MEEEEEEEE!

I want to marry a Chinese woman with an Irish accent. I'm sorry but I like accents and I'm Chinese anyways so it works out just well. While Leung didn't do the best of acting, her accent melted my evil anaytical movie analyzing heart of analysis.

This is the beginning of hilarious Snape in this chapter. Hilarious. Not really canon really and totally out of character, but hilarious. Too bad it sort of sticks out like a sore thumb.

Things of Note

Music used in the scene (http://www.amazon.com/Harry-Potter-Goblet-Stuart-Cassells/dp/B000BGH22W/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/002-9513408-3692803?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1176962363&sr=1-1): Track 11: Neville's Waltz.
Music Cue list greatly supplied by The Harry Potter Lexicon (http://www.hp-lexicon.org/about/films/gf/film_gf-soundtrack.html)

Was it just me or was a Slythern girl talking to Hufflepuffs? And also giggling and oogling at Harry's cuteness while he was walking by? A new generation of inter-house alliances and agreements then?

A very peculiar thing but for some reason Ron and Harry look every so small in the scene in the courtyard. It's so weird because they look so short and young like their actual ages of 14 (or supposed 14). I guess it's the cloaks. But I guess it's more the idea that we've been so close to their eye-level that we think them taller than they actually appear in real life. In this case they are shown to be the shortys that they are.

Tabris93

August 1st, 2007, 7:38 pm

I haven't seen this scene in a while, and a friend has borrowed the movie, so here goes...

I have never really understood why every girl seem to glare disgustedly at them in the courtyard. I could've understand it due to the Daily Prophet-slaunder, but even the Beauxbatons-girls are acting like that. It seemed a bit too much to me. Like the movie wanted to show how difficult it was to get a date, and then losing plausibility along the way.

If you by the twins mean when Fred (I believe) asks out Angelina, it's brilliant. What a contrast to Harry and Ron's shy and cumbersome attempts! Three seconds worth of charm and the date is set - loved it!

I've never understood, though, what they are supposed to be doing in this scene. It looks like the Great Hall, but it can't be exams. No cauldrons, yet Snape is there... is this a class at all?!

As for the scene itself... it's hilarious, but I feel a bit ambivalent towards it. I don't think Snape would ever be physical towards a student, it just seem so out of character. (Although his un-canon peeking at Fred's charm offensive is extremly cute!) I am also wondering if Harry is supposed to smile at Snape's assualt, or if Dan just couldn't keep a straight face. It seems a tad OOC too. Harry would be annoyed at Snape - never amused.

And the bug-eating thing... disgusting, and totally uncalled for. Is Newile also prejustice against part-humans?

Phrozenone

August 1st, 2007, 8:50 pm

I've never understood, though, what they are supposed to be doing in this scene. It looks like the Great Hall, but it can't be exams. No cauldrons, yet Snape is there... is this a class at all?!

I remember them saying it's some sort of study hall that most british boarding schools have. It's a place where the students go and finish up on homework and stuff from my understanding.

lindaluna

August 2nd, 2007, 5:35 am

I have never really understood why every girl seem to glare disgustedly at them in the courtyard.

Because that's what it SEEMS like when you are an underage boy.

If you by the twins mean when Fred (I believe) asks out Angelina, it's brilliant. the girl Angelina (on East Enders) really made that scene to me. I laugh every time I see her furious stare then accepting smile.

I've never understood, though, what they are supposed to be doing in this scene. It looks like the Great Hall, but it can't be exams. No cauldrons, yet Snape is there... is this a class at all?!

In COS they had an actual study hall. I think this is supposed to be study hall (a boarding school concept - where children were gathered to do homework ) but done in the great hall
And the bug-eating thing... disgusting, and totally uncalled for. Is Newile also prejustice against part-humans?It was an ad lib by the actress, but they loved it so kept it in. I found it quite an intimate gesture.

I know he could be mean, but I think that making fun of someone's physical appearance (especially one who doesn't deserve it) seems far too mean. In chapter 22 the unexpected task - Ron specifically insults Eloise Midgen, calling her a troll, with an off center nose, but it is mitigated by Hermione's spirited defense. Here it was only Ron so balder.

It just occured to me - do you make the chapter titles up or do you take them from the book ? I guess a short look at the books table of contents would tell me this answer !

Ok - kind of both - impressive !

Must say - I'm kind of depressed with the ending of the series - the only things worth discussing now - to me - will be the movie making!

DarwinMayflower

August 2nd, 2007, 5:43 am

In chapter 22 the unexpected task - Ron specifically insults Eloise Midgen, calling her a troll, with an off center nose, but it is mitigated by Hermione's spirited defense. Here it was only Ron so balder.
So I guess Kloves was just sparing her feelings then? Well it's been a while since I read GoF, but thanks for the clear up. I guess Ron's just lacks tact in both film and movie version.
It just occured to me - do you make the chapter titles up or do you take them from the book ? I guess a short look at the books table of contents would tell me this answer !
Just the DVD scene selection list. Usually most DVD's have like a little paper insert that shows what is the name of the DVD chapters, though I don't know if they still have those anymore. They seemed pretty barebones at the time.

DarwinMayflower

August 5th, 2007, 6:55 pm

yoshi2542

August 5th, 2007, 9:28 pm

I like the acting of everyone except Watson in this scene. The teachers are all good. Even though he has no lines, Gambon seems very Dumbledore-ish in this scene, watching Harry and smiling the same mad smile as when he wishes them good luck with the time turner, before going to dance with McGonagall (funny how Snape is the first one to applaud). I like Ron, Grint plays the seething, childish jealousy well, and Radcliffe is good as the friend caught in the middle of the lovers tiff. Emma Watson seems like she's doing a table read, not actually acting for the cameras. It just seems stilted and oddly delivered. Someone needs to tape her eyebrows down. I still don't know why fans say GOF shipped H/Hr, after seeing this scene.

The set is far too Bat Mitzvah-esque though, and I really think they could have done something a bit more inventive with it. We are at a school for wizards, Mr Newell. I also wanted something a bit more whimsical than tuxedos and prom dresses everywhere.

The chapter feels a bit too set-piecey, I think they should have kept the deleted scene of Snape and Karkaroff, because Alan Rickman is gold, and because there is some steamy carriage action going on in the courtyard. Also to take the focus back to Harry and more importantly, the Voldemort plot, which has fallen to the wayside a bit.

I don't know why anyone made a fuss about Hermione's dress colour, a blue one just wouldn't show up properly against the blue set. I'm more annoyed by Dumbledores lack of glasses and ridiculously short beard in this scene. Who is in charge of Gambon's beard? They must use about 4 different props, all different lengths! Just use one long one, instead of shuffling between short, medium, long, and really long all the time. I like DDs robe in this scene, though.

Tabris93

August 6th, 2007, 5:35 am

I think this is a really nice scene, and I have no problems with Watsons acting here. To me, it seems more like it is Hermione that struggles to find the correct words, not Emma Watson.

What I like the least here is the Wyrd Sisters song (sounds like they just wanted to put as much HP reference into the song as possible, without giving it any meaning - just mention "trolls" and "unicorns" a couple of times, and we'll do fine!) and Prf. Flitwick. I mean... come on, he looks ridicolous! I think so, anyway.

I disliked the dress colour for Hermione, as I can't see any reason for it not to be blue. Not a big thing, of course, but if you change too many details (on top of changing things in the plot), you slowly change the feel and the atmosphere of the movie until you have moved too far away from the Potterverse.

The quarrel was greatly done - and with the ballad running in the background, it took me 15 years back to my own teenage drama years. Very well done, I really recognized the feelings going on.

Oh, and another of those subtle humour scenes here. Harry's look when Hermione tells him to go to bed - hilarious!

kylecisnum1

August 6th, 2007, 5:44 am

thought the wyrd sisters were awesome and it really showed how a school dance is... kinda

thehollow

August 6th, 2007, 6:03 am

Hmm, I like the Yule Ball scene..very beautiful surroundings and I thought Hermione's dress being pink was nice it made more sense because of the background so she can atleast stand out. The acting was I think typical teenage stuff so it fit..maybe a little dramatic, but still it fit. As for the Wyrd Sisters, I thought it was good music especially the Magic Works song.

DarwinMayflower

August 9th, 2007, 5:30 am

bumblybee

August 9th, 2007, 4:44 pm

From the beginning we get have Harry get a flashback to his dream again. Why it's needed, it's beyond me, in fact it's these sort of things that really sort of bring the movie down as an actual movie and more of an attempt at something...movie-like. What I mean by that is why even bother showing the Riddle Grave having snow (since it's....DUM DUM DUM...WINTER!) when all you are going to do is just repeat the same dream sequence that happened before the beginning of the school year? I mean yeah, it's great that there was some attempt to foreshadow Voldemort's plans for Harry or his motivation to kill him since parallells are being drawn between Harry's planned death with Frank's. However why even bother showing the progression of time in one place only to not show it later in the same scene?

You could argue that "Hey they did show it by showing Voldemort's advancing his plans to anticipate Harry arriving," but that's more symbolic than a linear time progression. It was an attempt to make something meaningful but instead it just looked pretty lame. A good note is that Harry's eyes flashed green for a moment after he woke up from the AK attack.
I sort of agree with you. I understand why the filmmakers wanted to include a dream sequence here, but I don't understand why they chose to repeat the first dream. They needed to remind the movie audience about the imminent threat of Voldemort and his plan. However, they should have used a different dream instead of rehashing the first. They could have included the one where Harry flies on the owl (is it an owl? I forget) to at least spice it up a little.

I do have to say that I loved Neville's entrance into the dorm. It was very sweet.
So we have a shot of the bridge, which is kind of an eye-opener for me because after seeing OoTP; I always consider that film to have a lot of homages/references to previous HP films. In this case you get to see a simliar opening shot of the bridge when Lupin had his talk with Harry all the way back in PoA Chp 12: Talent for Trouble (FYI, Yes my livejournal is updated a bit to include previous chapter posts). I guess in this case they are going to draw parallells with Hermione being the caring person like Lupin.

I'm beginning to wonder why I like this movie to begin with. Watson manages to mangle another moment (I likes my alliteration). Aside it from being a semi-sweet H/Hr moment which obviously might lead many people to ship that movie-wise. Watson just destroys this scene for me. It's laughable really but for some reason when she plays relaxed Hermione she's far better than worry. Really I think she has to take acting lessons from Grint on how to do a proper worry face. As much as I do hate how she just eyePLOWs* through this scene. I do like how she acts in the happier times. Radcliffe...does moderately alright. Someone really should remind him that acting poorly does not equate emoting nervousness and tension. And fix that smile, you're grimacing again.
For me this scene really just reminds me why I don't like this movie. Bad characterization, poor writing, poor directing, and really bad acting. Let's start with the characterization (which ties into the writing). The first few lines are okay. Hermione badgering Harry about the egg is very in character, then it starts to go down hill. "He's not particularly loquacious". Does any 15-year-old girl talk like that? Even Hermione, who speaks more properly than the boys, still talks talks like a normal person (except when she's quoting textbooks). Then we have a huge switch of tone from teasing immediately to mothering. Now Hermione does mother Harry in the books, but she mostly tells him what to do or tells him off. She does worry a lot, but "I'm scared for you" is just a horrible line. It seems too personal for Hermione; she rarely talks about her feelings, especially to Harry. Her feelings are shown much more in her expressions and actions than in her dialog. I would have preferred a worried look and her giving him advice, telling him to go to the library, offering useful suggestions, etc. And the "almost cruel" line just makes me want to hit Kloves (though I often want to hit him :)).

All of these bad lines are just made worse by Emma's horrible delivery and Dan's reactions. Emma over-emotes and Dan is wooden. It's like the two opposite sides of bad acting, and we are fortunate enough to witness both in one scene.

The direction is plain and uninspired. Mike Newell also should have told Emma to tone it down. Her acting in GOF is a huge step back from COS and POA, and Newell did nothing to stop her from falling. She was better in OOTP; she still had a few cringe-worthy scenes, but she had a couple of decent deliveries, and the rest was just bearable. I'm hoping her better scenes in OOTP were towards the end of shooting, and that David Yates will continue to push her for a better performance. If not, then I am already dreading the bird-attack scene and any scene where she gets angry at Harry about the potions book. At least Hermione is not worrisome in HBP. Emma seems to be at her worst when she has serious dialog or when she's supposed to be angry.
The actual design of the prefect's bathroom is not what I imagined. In fact it's totally off. I imagined it to be a bit less grandiose or non-functional with taps all around the border of the pool, and not just some huge fountain at the end. It's almost like a return to Columbus' films where they seem very nice but also very plain. I never thought much of it but until the stain merwoman glass window actually moved, I began to think this place more akin to a church than a bathroom. The fountain of different taps just kinda of emphasized the monolithic structures and statues of some churches IMHO.
It's funny because the Prefect's bathroom looked very close to how I imagined it. I was happy with this set design. I liked the water spouts in particular.
I don't know what to say about Henderson's bit part in this sequence. Once again apparently ghost physics are uninspired but it's nice to see some bit of consistency of her character is retained from CoS. I really do miss her matter of fact way of talking to Harry about her ventures through the plumbing and far too much sexual innuendo for my taste, not because it's supposed to be a more kid friendly product, but it's just stupid really. Despite the childish and even immature jokes, she did play her part to a tee. I do like the fact that they are so audacious for doing something like that, I love just utter complete nuttery like that.

I should mention one thing. I was always under the assumption that the Golden Egg was far smaller. I mean about the size of a big fist, not the size of Harry's head. I guess it had to represent the size of a dragon's egg, but the goF American Cover has always sort of influenced how I saw the egg as just something that fit right into the palm of Harry's hand.
This scene is alright. The time right before the second task is always my least favorite part to read in the book. I don't think that the sexual innuendo is too much. The only thing that kind of makes it creepy is that Henderson is like 40-years-old. There was also some innuendo in the book, not as much, but it's there. I pictured the egg to be that size. It is a dragon's egg, and we did see the size of Norbert's egg in SS/PS.
So we come to the library of which I feel was nearly the most complete waste of a library scene ever in the entire series. I mean it's more ambitious than what Columbus attempted, but even Columbus had some direction with it. Even with his way of shooting, it still looked decent enough. Cuaron would have made it look as dynamic as possible while still maintaining a focus on the trio yet making the background as active as the Trio, but Newall just messes it up IMHO. It's like he's trying to pull a Cuaron but it's composed so poorly, you don't fight to see what's going on with either the Trio or background, you fight have any sort of concentration within the scene. It's like there's an missing X-factor from this scene that would have made it great cinematically but once again (like the previously mentioned dream sequence) it fails and looks like an amateur mess. Why isn't it a complete waste? Because out of all the library scenes I feel the design for the books is the most varied. It's nice to just stare at it when you get a chance here and there, but otherwise between Radcliffe's robotic replies*** and Watson's acting coupled with exposition; you could write this entire scene off. Gleeson's invovlement was completely toned down which I like because by comparison to the Trio, he's a breath of fresh air.
I agree with you about everything in the scene. It's essentially pointless. If they were going to include a library scene at least have them doing something other then Hermione saying the mermaid song again. I prefer the look of the library here than in the other movies. However, as you mentioned, they do nothing to make use of the set.
I do have to say that Ron get's no lines in this chapter. No lines. Oh wait he does...it's ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ.
:grumble: I feel this scene could have benefited from Rupert having lines. Dan and Emma don't play well off each other (while acting). They both act better with Rupert. Had they been talking (all three) while perusing books it would have given more energy to the scene and added something to the non-character that is movie!Ron (OOTP aside, as he was a real character in that film, though underused).

Tabris93

August 9th, 2007, 6:07 pm

I am actually quite happy with GoF. I find the movie much better then PoA. I do agree about Emma's acting in this one, though. It's horrible. Something happened to her in this movie, because she is much better in every other HP-movie, both before and after this one.

I do think Dan is great here, though. He's getting grumpier, almost at the OotP-level. His suspicous "And what is that supposed to mean?" is almost too grumpy. And I really like his grin after Hermione's "he's more of a physical person".

I have no trouble with the dream either. Harry did have several dreams in GoF, so this is just following canon. More or less, at least. You are right, though, about the egg. In the book, Harry holds the egg in one hand - this egg seems too big for that.

My biggest problem with all of these scenes are the erotic undertones from Moaning Myrtle. I would say that Harry - not to mention Dan! - is too young for that. Especially when you know that the woman playing M.M. is over 30-years old.

DarwinMayflower

August 9th, 2007, 7:37 pm

Throughout the day I'll be updating a few posts here and there. The current chapter discussion I added some pictures.

Blofeld

August 9th, 2007, 8:16 pm

Excuse me, but I've been attempting to follow your links to previous chapter discussions, only to come up empty handed. Could you tell me what's wrong? :(

DarwinMayflower

August 9th, 2007, 9:35 pm

Excuse me, but I've been attempting to follow your links to previous chapter discussions, only to come up empty handed. Could you tell me what's wrong? :(
I have yet to add some of the chapter discussions onto my livejournal because the previous thread has been deleted.

The livejournal with some (not all) of the chapter posts are at http://www.mcpotterdore.livejournal.com. It'll take a while since I'm in the process of moving and therefore some of my chapter archives are on the other computer.

Blofeld

August 10th, 2007, 1:31 am

I'm not getting anything when I click the link. :(

DarwinMayflower

August 11th, 2007, 5:15 am

DarwinMayflower

August 14th, 2007, 7:20 am

Tabris93

August 14th, 2007, 2:48 pm

I haven't got too much to say on this scene. To be honest, I think it's the least interesting one to me. Not because there's anything wrong with it, it's just not my favourite scene - not in the book and not in the movie.

Overall, it's a good scene. I didn't find the "I killed Harry Potter"-comment funny either. And I wasn't too fond of Harry's dolphin jump. A bit too uncanon for my taste.

I found the captors extremley creepy, though. They look dead, and I can't help thinking how kids were going to react to this. I would have found it horrible when I was younger.

Solace_Forever

August 14th, 2007, 5:38 pm

I found the captors extremley creepy, though. They look dead, and I can't help thinking how kids were going to react to this. I would have found it horrible when I was younger.

ohh me too!! I got scared lol, i guess that was the best thing in this chapter

DarwinMayflower

August 16th, 2007, 4:08 am

Just to inform people that I'm moving on Friday, so this thread will be dead for about a week or so, or until I get settled into my new place.

ParanoidAndroid

August 16th, 2007, 3:46 pm

yoshi2542

August 16th, 2007, 7:36 pm

This is my least favourite part of the movie. It's boring, poorly shot and it kills the pace of the movie (well everything from the latter part of the Yule Ball to finding Crouch dead). If you think about it, this task is not even really needed. It's only there because it needed to be 3 tasks, and it's in the book.

Also, I thought the underwater effects were questionable.

I agree. This whole stretch of the film feels crude, from art direction, to acting, the music, it's all so drab and boring. They should have changed this task or cut it all together, because all it does is reinforce that Harry is brave and tends to act the hero, and that Moody wants him to win. It's this sort of loyalty to the book, seemingly because no-one could be bothered/was willing to risk changing the narrative in any drastic way, that stops the films becoming truly great (POA excepted). Alfonso's streamlined approach is sorely needed for this film.

lindaluna

August 19th, 2007, 5:34 am

Boy - away for 10 days and the thread flies.

Yule Ball
pink dress pretty
Watson OK
Watson best when she is crying at the end
grint perfect
liked the prom scene very much - real teenagers!
dancing too short

Dream in Winter
pointless except for bird at window

Scene on Bridge with Watson - pointless - and Radcliffe photoed weird with flat elongated face
Scene on Bridge with Cedric - priceless

Bathroom
taps - weird, pool size - weird
moaning myrtle - to tigrish for a 13 year old girl
egg size - irrelevant - was pretty and I liked the song very much
moving stained glass window - lovely

Library
moving books - yuck
hermione's pants - HOT!!!
watson's acting - bleh!! I'm glad she's taken on another project to grow a little with.
could have been a good scene for acting, but just everyone is off.
neville good again

I liked that they changed it to be Neville providing the clue to Harry (not Dobby). Much more direct and appropriate. (These are the kind of things I hope happen in 6 & 7)

Task 2all the shots getting on and off dock - lack of feeling of continuity
underuse of Ginny & Twins
scenes with Neville - great
big stands in water - pointless since champions all on one
underwater OK - started to be creepy
the dummies of the sleeping ron hermione & cho were just AWFUL !!!!!!
Cedric / Pattison spot on
coming out of the water and transforming back ok (I think Watson hated Krum though !)
End re judges just hurried and awful -and who gave Karkaroff such teeth - he was sleek in book!
Fleur effect - and her character - nicely done - she's also very good - she and pattison avoid all the excesses of... watson again

KlausBaudelaire

August 19th, 2007, 10:44 am

Wasteful sequences like telling Crouch to go downstairs with him which IMHO just makes you think why would you need a scene to show someone going down the stairs let alone announce it?

:lol::lol::lol:
That was what I thought the very first time I watched GoF in the theather.
What's really the point of this scene?!

thehollow

August 19th, 2007, 7:41 pm

I though it was an OK scene..I didn't like the whole Dumbledore/Crouch part either there was just no need for that really. It was interesting though to see the under water world, was creepy especially with the background music sounding kind of haunting; the whole dummies part was to obvious of looking fake not a good job there.

I did like the Grindylows part though.

lindaluna

August 21st, 2007, 5:09 am

If you think about it, this task is not even really needed. It's only there because it needed to be 3 tasks, and it's in the book.

I really thought these three tasks would be a set up / dry run for the final DH but...

GoF on the top, PoA on the bottom (re bridge)
I love that bridge!!! If you look closely, it's the same bridge but the tree line under the diamond shaped arch has changed between the two shots.

CrazyMuggle

August 21st, 2007, 8:26 pm

I really like how the 2nd task was done and the grindylows/mermaids were well done/pretty creepy:tu: This scene followed the book pretty well but didn't the giant squid make an appearance? I've always wanted to see it in the films but so far... no squid:no: I thought Hermione pulled off a good French accent and Ron's expression after Fleur kisses him is priceless :lol: All in all, a good scene with neat underwater shots and creepy moments.

Scorpy

August 21st, 2007, 9:36 pm

I like the look and feel of the underwater setting in this scene. It's all so vast and murky, it works really well.

The mermaids kind of irked me since they definitely looked more vicious than I imagined, but that makes sense since we're supposed to think of them as a possible threat. Speaking of threats, I think it's unfortunate that we're practically told shortly after she disappears that Fleur is all right. It makes any threat to Harry lessened.

I can't remember how the bubble head charm is described in the book, but this was not how I pictured it. I guess this makes it more practical, though.

Looks like Harry can voluntarily do a bit of non-verbal magic, too.

Neville's lack of confidence, even in his favorite subject, is a nice touch.

Hermione saying "ze grindylows" is cute.

DarwinMayflower

August 22nd, 2007, 8:01 am

yoshi2542

August 22nd, 2007, 10:43 am

The Crouch stuff was handled very poorly. He simply wasn't used enough earlier for this to have any impact, and it doesn't help that the only person who seems to be bothered is Dumbledore. After the fuss that was made after the attacks in COS, I would have thought a Ministry official being murdered would have more impact. It's because of the 'adaptation' that this doesn't work. In the book, they all think Crouch has gone missing, it's all mysterious. In the film, they actually find his corpse, they know he is dead, and I think the fact that they didn't bother to change the effect of that is what makes this plot fall on it's face. It's like Sirius dying in OOTP. No impact.

Anyway, I love Gambon in this scene. It's a detailed little performance, I like how when he tells Fudge "a true leader does what is right, no matter what others think", then Fudge leans over him, DD sort of leans back, knowing he's perhaps pushed Fudge a little too much, or how bosses Fudge around once Harry arrives, "Minister, after you" is delivered with the perfect mix of politeness and curt bossiness (I love how he chortles as he hands Fudge his hat), or how he winks at Harry. It's a shame Newell cocked up DD so much earlier in the film, in fact I'd say Newell is partly to blame for the badly handled relationship between DD and Harry in OOTP. If he had bothered to think beyond his film, he would see that he directed DD in a way that makes it hard for other directors to build off an established relationship. I think the DD/Harry stuff in OOTP fell a little flat simply because their relationship has not been shown accurately (although Newell used DD better in this final act) in GOF, and there simply wasn't an opportunity to set it up from scratch in OOTP.

I also like the very long beard the prop people have given DD in this scene. It should always be like this, not the short little thing he had on during the feast. I love that ambient ticking/whirring sound from all the instruments in the office, but I would have liked to see more of the instruments that Cuaron had in the set in POA (I think they were CGI), because they were beautiful. The camera is used a little crudely in this scene, I would have preferred a few more wide angles and some more dynamic lighting.

This chapter still has that arbitrary, inconsequential feel to it, like most of GOF. Maybe because there's no music, or the lighting? Maybe the script? I just can't put my finger on why it feels so 'meh'.

lindaluna

August 23rd, 2007, 3:37 am

In part to me the office scene seem off because it's like they said "ok their filming now, start talking" whereas really feeling like you are interrupting anything. There is no sense of anything unheard or undercurrent.

I liked the scene with Crouch - never hole/whole again - as it at least humanizes him a little before he's offed. And the snake tongue was the only visual clue - from fake Moody - that he's fake - and the jealously made it a nice family scene - but then Crouch is killed for aedipal (sp?) well it's a patricide for jealousy vs something to protect Voldie... I mean they also lost the meaning of the death, and Crouch's battle against the mental hold on him and the suspicion of Krum.

Scorpy

August 23rd, 2007, 8:22 am

Crouch's "never whole again" is a nice line. Giving us a hint of what's to come in the next scene.

Seeing the deleted scenes actually gives me some appreciation for the song. At least now I know where it's from, even if that doesn't make it any less bad.

I never really liked the look of the forest here. I don't know what it is, maybe the last movie made it look a bit fantastical and here it's just walking through some misty trees. Also, the discovery of Fudge doesn't really have any impact probably because the character didn't have much.

The office scene is nice if insignificant. I do like Dumbledore's tone to Harry, always reminding us of his relationship and the lightness DD carries with him.

Tabris93

August 23rd, 2007, 7:38 pm

Crouch Sr is one of the weirdest character I've seen on film. The scene with Harry seems completely out of place - why is it even in there? Why would Crouch Jr pour out his soul to a student like that? It doesn't fit with everything else shown about the character, I think.

I thought the Hagrid-scene was indearing. I thought they looked quite close, all of them. Especially Ron's wonderful "We're still a bunch of misfits". (Although I have no idea where that came from - Hermione and Ron aren't misfits at all).

I don't like the scene in Dumbledore's office at all. Again, Gambon is too aggressive. Is that man supposed to be wise, balanced and calm? Awfully handled, like every other Dumbledore scene. I also liked Dumbledore's office best in CoS.

lindaluna

August 30th, 2007, 3:08 am

The candy snaps were good though!

DarwinMayflower

September 1st, 2007, 9:04 am

yoshi2542

September 1st, 2007, 9:43 am

DarwinMayflower

September 1st, 2007, 9:49 am

I think the court scene is a little hollow, it lacks impact, it all seems too stilted. I love the scene in DDs office though, I love how old DD looks as he stares into his reflection in the cabinet (with the Deathly Hallows symbol to his left!), but when he turns around, the wrinkles sort of vanish. I like how DD is quite emotional (remember he's seen Bartys body, unlike in the book, which explains why he is a bit more human in this scene).
REALLY? Well this I have to check out. Thanks for the point out. I do admit I like the more human side of Dumbledore, but to me it does lack a certain subtlty to it all. It's like, 'Hey let's make him sit down like he's one of the guys' as opposed to really making him really feel like a well rounded human being. Parts like when he told Harry how he hated the cloth for the beds were just great IMHO. Only wish that all of Dumbeldore's more human moments were handled as well as that one.

Darwin, I think the weird DD staring thing is a result of splicing odd takes together. You can see it shifts from DD staring ahead, then it cuts to a wider angle and DD is looking at Harry before he walks away. Sloppy editing. How I miss the days of POAs one take scenes. Oh well. I do find it amusing that they reused the beard from the COS flashback (even though it's only a decade or so ago! I guess it has to be clear to the audience that we're in the past).
Never noticed the beard either so good eye. But you are right for the odd takes. I don't know if Newall didn't have the eye for it or just assumed it was alright from his angle.

Dark Emperor

September 1st, 2007, 8:57 pm

I liked the scene, for when yo dont break it down and analyze it, it getst he message across very well. In fact, thats how I seem to view Newell's work in this movie in general, that the scenes and movie tself seem to be greater than the sum of it's parts since, as many have pointed out, to use this scene as an example, alot of the bits and pieces for the courtroom scene by themselves are pretty hokey (BC Jr. going crazy the moment he is called out rather than try to act innocent is one of those things, but it worked for me whenever I see the movie as it does its job an does it in a popcornesque sort of way.

...Besides, I like the whole

Karkaroff- "BARTY CROUCH...."
Ministry- o_O as he pauses for effect.
Karkaroff- JOOOOONIOR!!
Ministry- O_O

...it just felt right in context for some reason. Of course, it remains absolutely true that the bits and pieces of each scene are wonky to no end...

DarwinMayflower

September 3rd, 2007, 1:19 am

thehollow

September 3rd, 2007, 5:15 am

Lack of Snape in GOF to begin with so, Rickman here to me I thought did a good job with that little scene..especially his 'don't lie to me' line.

Tabris93

September 3rd, 2007, 7:58 am

Haven't been here in a while.

A short comment about the Pensieve-scene: What annoyed me the most, was that the didn't follow up on Harry learning that Snape had been (or still was?) a Death Eater. That was an important bit of information, but they just shouted it out without ever mentioning it again.

I quite like the Snape/Harry-scene here. Harry acts quite differently towards Snape in PoA and GoF then what he did in the two first movies. Or so I think. He seems to be less afraid of Snape and more able to stand up to him. (Which I find odd, by the way, that Snape lets him).

Alan Rickman is always gold as Snape in my book. He has a way of speaking and a mannerism that I find completely captivating. I almost hold my breath during his scenes.

I've read somewhere that some people believe that Snape shut himself in when he closed the door. I am not quite sure what they base it on.

yoshi2542

September 3rd, 2007, 10:29 am

This scene is OK. It's interesting they reused the hall from POA where Harry sees Pettigrew on the map, but with a door slapped in the middle of it. The scene is well-acted but has that same arbitrary feeling as a lot of other patrts.

A few things about the final part of the scene with Dumbledore. I know originally Harry and DD had more lines, I remember in all the pre-release footage Harry said, "If you can't protect me now, then who can?" and DD replies "I'm afraid there are no more easy answers, Harry." If you look closely you can see DDs lips moving as he stares at the pensieve, where they removed a line. Also I find it extremely lazy how they re-use the earlier shot of DDs memory falling into the pensieve. If you look at his sleeves at the edge of the pensieve, he's not even wearing the same robe! This sort of sly but amateurish editing is a major annoyance for me.

DarwinMayflower

September 4th, 2007, 8:25 am

yoshi2542

September 4th, 2007, 10:17 am

I really love this scene. The Hogwarts March that the band play is great, very much in the style of POA, and I love Dumbledore's entrance with Harry. He's got his hand on his shoulder, he shows him to the arena then stares after him, concerned. The only thing I don't like about DD in this scene in how he barks 'quickly!' at the champions after he tells them to gather round. I love how he puts his arms around Fleur and Krum, and how during his speech, his eyes always dart back to Harry when he says something important. The close-up of Dumbledore giving Moody the DD X-Ray stare TM(if you look very, very closely his eyes flick to Harry before darting back to Moody) as he points Harry towards the cup is one of my favourite shots. DDs face as Filch fires the cannon is hilarious.

The actual maze is probably the best task, I think. The living hedge aspect was quite ingenious, and the stuff with the champions fighting, especially between Harry and Cedric, was very well shot, it had a nice energy and good use of close-ups. The wide-angle showing Harry shooting red sparks was exactly as I pictured it in the book. I think it works better as a more psychological battle, to find the cup first, avoid the hedges and outdo the other champions, by any means neccesary. DDs pertinent warning that 'people change in the maze' is especially apt, and I think all the actors do very well portraying darker,selfish, more treacherous emotions in this scene. The scene as in the book would have taken far too long, this worked better, and it got us to the graveyard quickly. One of the few large adaptations that was handled well and payed off.

One funny little thing. When Amos says 'My boy' to Cedric, it's dubbbed awfully, his lips don't even move. Always annoys me.

DarwinMayflower

September 7th, 2007, 9:34 pm

Phrozenone

September 9th, 2007, 6:17 am

I'm so glad you've kept this discussion up and running Darwin! This was the thread that made me want to join this forum and although I haven't been posting in it as much recently I have been reading, but since we're nearing the end I guess it's time for me too rejoin :)

I'll start talking about the last chapter first before I get into the greatness which is the graveyard scene. I loved the Maze scene because like you said it felt real. It was a tense scene from the moment the champions walked in front of the crowd. Dumbledore looks concerned oh and I agree the dubbing of Diggory saying 'My boy' bugs me aswell. The cannon gag was great imo and I loved Dumbledore's reaction aswell as Filch's. Moody pointing Harry in the right direction and Dumbledore's look as all this is going on is perfect in my opinion and then the hedges close.

Silence....wow...this is pretty creepy lol. My friends found it unbelievable that a hedge could block out sound but at the time I"m like "Well a wizard just got chased by a dragon, was breathing underwater, and fell into someone else's memory and you think THIS is unbelievable." lol But I won't repeat everything Darwin has said...good scene :)

Now to the graveyard scene. I remember when I first saw it I didn't know what to think. I just remember being...confused. I had no idea how I'd imagined Voldemort to act but I knew that wasn't it. I won't lie I was slightly disappointed...until I realized..wow that man is crazy. After I saw it the 2nd time I LOVED the scene because I got what Fiennes was doing with the role and I preferred it better than anything I possibly could've imagined.

'The Dark Lord Shall Rise Again'...I couldn't of said it better myself and that's one of my favorite lines in the movie series. I still laugh when I see Wormtail trailing the bone up the tombstone because originally they thought Voldemort 's father was the first name when it actuality it was his grandfathers name. Needless to say the whole Flesh, Bone, and Blood thing really came across well I think. I wondered how they would handle Wormtail cutting off his hand and I think cutting to Harry's reacting to it but getting a clear idea of what just happened was perfect.

The smoke becoming Voldemort's wadrobe is also a favorite thing of mine and just seeing him test out his new body....breathing in for the first time...opening is eyes...was done sooooo well. One thing I wish they would've done was to show Wormtail in more pain, I mean jeez he cut off his hand, but the focus is on Ralph once he takes the screen that you don't notice. The entrace of the Death Eaters was a genius idea imo and that form of apparation comes to play in the finale of Order of the Phoenix aswell.

The one thing that bugs me is it's obvious Voldemort went around and ripped the masks off of everyone, but we only see a select few. It's like 'how come everyone else is on the ground all of a sudden?" But for the sake of time I can understand it and Voldemort putting his foot on Cedrics face, such a total disregard for the dead, was a nice touch to the scene.

I don't know why but I love how he first addresses Harry. "Harry!" It was like he was happy to see him and the fact that he almost forgot he was there proves how wrapped up he was in everything else. He talks to Harry like they're old friends though and one thing that I love about Fiennes VOldemort is the mood swings. You do not want to make this man mad. He'll offer you to sit down for a cup of tea and BAM you're headless because you stepped on his Armani shoes...this man is truly crazy and he has it in for this little 14 year old kid.

I think that's probably what made me so unsure about the scene when I first saw it. I didn't "get" that he was having mood swings of sorts...I just thought 'This guy is all over the place" but it works so well. He knows how to charm people, get people to follow his cause, but at the same time they fear him because he'll snap in a second and kill you! I thought Voldemort touching Harry's scar was much better than him touching his cheek in the book. I mean it makes so much sense. I always laugh at how even with all his madness he still wants to follow the correct rules for dueling....hehehehe.

Dan's acting in this scene is pretty interesting. My favorite moment from him is when he's hiding behind the tombstone and you see in his eyes that he's making a decision. "Am I going to die hiding or fighting?" He WAS Harry in that moment which I probably can't say for the beginning of the scene. (I'd probably be trying to kick Voldemort the whole time since my legs were free :lol:) I thought he pulled off the cruicio effect well aswell. I remember breathing in pretty hard when it happened and once again Voldemort walks up to him ever politly and tells him he's going to kill him. Not over the top, just simply put "I'm going to destroy you. -Smile- Then all of a sudden "GET UP!!!" hehehehe Also did anyone else notice the random clapping Death Eater? I've always found that pretty funny.

I'm not even sure I'm supposed to talking about this whole scene so forgive me Darwin if I'm going ahead (Feel free to send a Cruciatus curse my way and I'll shut up) Prior Incantatum was a scene I remember liking since first viewing. To me though, it seemed like Voldemort wasn't particularly clueless to what was going on. I loved how he stopped Lucius and the others from attacking Harry since he wanted to finish him and I think the music in this bit was the best in the whole scene. I won't lie, I felt my eyes get a little moist when his parents appeared beside him. Maybe it was the music, but I thought it was done beautifully. I like the sound the wands were making aswell and the kinda lava effect the spell had. HOw Cedric told Harry to take his body back...wow...I agree with Darwin the kid is good. He did so much with so little of a line. Well as we all know Harry breaks the connection, runs to Cedric's body and swoosh he's out of there with a touch of the portkey. I couldn't help but chuckle at Voldemorts scream of defeat since for some reason it reminded me of Darth Vaders horrible "Nooooooo" at the end of Episode Three when I first saw it :p

KlausBaudelaire

September 9th, 2007, 12:07 pm

I really don't like the setting of the scene.
You can easily guess it's shot in a cheap studio location.
And all that fog, used to cover the studio walls, to give a feeling of open sky, was so patethically fake.
The cinematography in this scene is terrible, terrible, terrible!
That's the only thing that buggers me.
P.S: I was forgetting the Clapping Death Eater.

DarwinMayflower

September 10th, 2007, 5:17 am

Day 2 Discussion

'The Dark Lord Shall Rise Again'...I couldn't of said it better myself and that's one of my favorite lines in the movie series. I still laugh when I see Wormtail trailing the bone up the tombstone because originally they thought Voldemort 's father was the first name when it actuality it was his grandfathers name. Needless to say the whole Flesh, Bone, and Blood thing really came across well I think. I wondered how they would handle Wormtail cutting off his hand and I think cutting to Harry's reacting to it but getting a clear idea of what just happened was perfect.
The scary thing is that they actually showed a bit of the hand just going up into the air. I should get a screencap of it if it is alright with the mods.
The smoke becoming Voldemort's wadrobe is also a favorite thing of mine and just seeing him test out his new body....breathing in for the first time...opening is eyes...was done sooooo well. One thing I wish they would've done was to show Wormtail in more pain, I mean jeez he cut off his hand, but the focus is on Ralph once he takes the screen that you don't notice. The entrace of the Death Eaters was a genius idea imo and that form of apparation comes to play in the finale of Order of the Phoenix aswell.
What's neat about the whole smoke thing is that they managed to take the twist of black smoke apparation with the black hat and white hat idea with Cowboys in OoTP. Sure it's a bit cheesy, but I thought it was a pretty nice imaginative twist.
I'm not even sure I'm supposed to talking about this whole scene so forgive me Darwin if I'm going ahead (Feel free to send a Cruciatus curse my way and I'll shut up) Prior Incantatum was a scene I remember liking since first viewing. To me though, it seemed like Voldemort wasn't particularly clueless to what was going on. I loved how he stopped Lucius and the others from attacking Harry since he wanted to finish him and I think the music in this bit was the best in the whole scene. I won't lie, I felt my eyes get a little moist when his parents appeared beside him. Maybe it was the music, but I thought it was done beautifully. I like the sound the wands were making aswell and the kinda lava effect the spell had. HOw Cedric told Harry to take his body back...wow...I agree with Darwin the kid is good. He did so much with so little of a line. Well as we all know Harry breaks the connection, runs to Cedric's body and swoosh he's out of there with a touch of the portkey. I couldn't help but chuckle at Voldemorts scream of defeat since for some reason it reminded me of Darth Vaders horrible "Nooooooo" at the end of Episode Three when I first saw it :p
It doesn't matter becuase it includes that as well.

In terms of the SFX, there were good things with the black smoke. It is a bit heavy handed, almost ninja like but what I liked about that idea is it provided the audience with a feeling of urgency of the Death Eaters returning. It just shows how quick they appeared as opposed to just popping in. Although not canon I do hope that in some capacity they'll keep the smoke effects a bit more muted in DH since I doubt it'd be so funny to see the Trio just go up in smoke everytime they apparate.

As for the magic, it didn't look as pretty as JKR described, but I like it. Although one problem is that it certainly does far too SFXy at times. The transformation of Voldemort for instance and the statue grabbing Harry. I almost wish that Harry would struggle and sort of get loose to have the statue actually restrain him a bit more; just to show that magic is move alive than static. It is kind of annoying because when Voldemort releases Harry, the arm with the scythe just sort of hinges down like it was a release lock mechanism. I guess it matters since it is the action movie of Harry Potter for the time so it's hard to say whether it was appropriate or inapproriate. It does certainly does some amazing things. Priori Incantatem was infinitely better than what I could ever imagine. I loved how the magic was so liquid, almost alive between Harry and Voldemort. I was glad that not everything was so direct at times such as the golden cage.

The ghost versions of the characters, it does the job. Nothing special really, but it certainly didn't make it look cheap. Other than regarding the SFX, I never noticed that obviously looked like it was shot in a studio until people brought it up. It does bring up a point, almost wishing there were some more scenic shots of the entire field, but at the same time this was a personal and very close knit thing. There's no escape and this trap is very much a trap. There are few places where Harry can hide.

Basically it's this scene that makes me kind of excited of what magic can do. Even though Cuaron did well, I think some of the concepts and visuals for magic here were done better in their own respect. There are just some things that just exceeded my expectations or even changed my perception of what it should look like and just made it better in general. You could feel the energy in the air.

Phrozenone

September 10th, 2007, 8:23 am

Yeah I agree about the statue holding Harry thing. It's like seriously it looks like he could just slide from under the thing while Voldemort was preoccupied talking to the Death Eaters...quietly creep over to Cedrics body and SWOOSH back to Hogwarts. I did think that it looked alot like a set, but for some reason when I watched the scene last night it didn't stand out as bad that's why I didn't mention it. Maybe I got used to it.

Could this scene have been creepier? Absolutly and I"m sure someone like Cauron would've done wonders for it (And I can't help but imagine the score John Willaims would've done *shivers*), but Mike Newell has been over the top for most of the movie, why stop now? The editing however is a little sloppy in certain parts of the scene. I don't know if you notice but at the beginning of Prior Incantatum when Harry and Voldemort's wand meet they're both holding it with one hand. There's a close up of the spell connecting and we see Harry grip it with two, then it cuts back out and Harry's holding it with one hand again and then grips it with two hehehe. (Oh yeah and as a nod to the earlier post about the editing in the Pensieve scene, I did notice that in one cut Dumbledore is looking straight ahead while talking to Harry, then the scene cuts to Dumbledore kinda kneeled down talking directly to him....yes I have no life lol)

Also does anyone else laugh at the little scream Voldemort gives as he's dropped into the cauldron by Pettigrew?

BTW I don't think they're going to use the smoke effect much in DH because look at how they treated it in the case of Fred and George. I'm guessing you have to reach a certain 'level' perhaps to become all smokey. I think something simple like the effect they used with Dobby in the 2nd movie would work, slighty smokey but not to the effect of the Death Eaters (Or even the Order).

I forgot to mention the effect of removing Ralph Fiennes nose...I will say this, they did a great job with it. One thing I love about the transformation is you see his face slowly coming together and it makes it all the more real imo. I betcha ole Voldemort was angry once he looked in the mirror and realized he's missing a nose lol. I also LOVE the way he holds his wand, its so....snakelike! I thought it was awesome that he was left handed and he didn't just hold his wand, it was like an extension of him.

yoshi2542

September 10th, 2007, 10:18 am

This whole graveyard bit is a mixed bag. In terms of the technical aspect of the scene, it's fairly bad. Obviously done on a soundstage, too much fog, a bland musical score that doesn't really have a haunting/terrifying feeling. The music never gives you the sheer terror from the book, that the most evil wizard ever is being reborn in front of our eyes, and Harry is most likely going to die, that a new war is coming. The music is just a bit tense.

Acting is OK, it's obvious the studio forced Newell to tone down Ralph Fiennes, as the stuff in the final cut is extremely tame compared to how he was acting in a lot of the behind the scenes footage. I remember one line he did which was "The Lord giveth,and the Lord taketh away!" along with a terrifying scowl. Clearly, for all their wittering about this being the darkest film at the time, it's clear they are unwilling to risk a rating higher than 12A (Is it PG-13 in America?), and as a result the scene loses a lot of impact. Dan Radcliffe is OK, Pettigrew is a bit too pleased, the DEs are OK, the apparating was done well, but I always think it strange to have Lucius towering over Voldemort. Newell should have framed that differently, because it makes Lucius look a little too forward, and a little too fearless, and Voldemort rather less than intimidating.

I thought Priori Incantatem was done well, the effect looked good, with that goop flying everywhere and the rumble of the beams connecting, the ghosts looked OK, a lot like the patronuses from OOTP, and I think that part is lit well, some nice colours and it's also well shot. A lot better than the pathetic re-use of this effect in OOTP, where there's almost no rumbling sound, no real wide angle on the beams connecting, and an abundance of close-up. The shot where Voldemort stares up at the ghosts flying from his wand is great. All in all this scene is pretty good, certainly among the best in the movie, but I think the set, the music and the tame version of Voldemort drag it down a lot.

Tabris93

September 10th, 2007, 5:04 pm

Darn, I've lost a few scenes here. Been busy.

I love the graveyeard scene. One of my favourite scene sin the movie. Fiennes surprised me as Voldemort, yet I guess no one could have acted Voldemort like I saw him in my head.

When I got used to him, though, I found him to be wonderful. Brilliant portrayal of Voldemort. I didn't like that they removed the red eyes, but when I heard the reasoning behind it, I sort of understood it. And when he says "I want to see the light leave your eyes", I always gets chills down my back.

I love Dan in this scene, though. I think he is wonderful. The Prior Incantatem-scene was gorgeous. Eerie, yet beautiful. "Take my body back to my father" chokes me up.

thehollow

September 11th, 2007, 5:32 am

The graveyard scene was great..I thought Fiennes did an awesome job as Voldemort, and also wished they would've kept the red eyes it would've made him that much more scary. I think Radcliffe also did a good job he really has improved from that point in portraying Harry. The Prior Incantatem to me was emotional just the way Harry is watching and listening to Cedric and his parents.

Like some of you said, it was a creepy yet beautiful scene.

DarwinMayflower

September 11th, 2007, 7:26 am

Discussion Day 3

Last day for discussion. I think I basically covered most things. One last thing I forgot to cover (which others have) was the music. Even though I don't have a natural ear for music unless it stands out or is pretty darn catchy (insert He's a Pirate remix 2007) Wimsey stated how Priori Incantatem actually had the music follow the fight pretty well. How Harry managed to start beating Voldemort the music changed subtley.

Other than that I really don't have much else to say. While the whole affair IMHO reeks of Hollywoodiness, it still is a spectacular scene to watch mainly because of Fienne's performance, despite it's obviously flaws as pointed by the more observant members. I seriously think this was one of those must see moments in cinematic history because it's just such a great performance even if the rest of the film has it fair share of hiccups.

It does bring up did most people like what occured? I mean this is one of the most pivotal (if not THE pivotal) moment in the Harry Potter series, do you think that even from a film sense or adaption sense they managed to convey the seriousness of Voldemort's return? Or did it seems to fall a bit flat as to the escape from the baddie syndrome that they have since the beginning of the series? The book made the graveyard scene cumlativly more epic and grand than the 3 tasks combined, but do you think that being a film, did it translate the same sort of monumental moment as well?

Me personally, I think kind of and kind of not. Mainly for what occurs post-Voldie return, there's never a sense of success on Harry's part nor is there a real sense of failure. Instead there isn't any real presence of his return overshadowed by the potential fight for the future which indeed was a poor set up for the next film. Regardless I think it's great that it does make me come back each and every single time to see Fiennes just rip it up as Voldemort. But enough of that, that's for the next chapter. Upwards and onwards.

Tabris93

September 11th, 2007, 5:44 pm

I feel the same. Kind of and kind of not. I think PoA, GoF and OotP all made that same mistake - they throw in important issues just to ignore it for the rest of the movie. How are the audience going to get that it is important? I think they should have included the "Parting of the ways". It was very important, and it would have shown the seriousness of it all better.

Phrozenone

September 11th, 2007, 7:35 pm

I agree. That's one thing I don't like about this movie. For half the movie there is no mention of Voldemort at ALL. Sure there's this big tournament...but they could've focused on Harry's scar more. The build up just wasn't there to me..it's like Voldemort, Task, Yule Ball, Task, Task, Voldemort. Instead of having the continuous feeling throughout the film that...maybe he's coming back? I think the scene could've been so much stronger if throughout the film you got the feeling that something was brewing, even though we didn't know what.

MasterOfDeath

September 11th, 2007, 7:45 pm

Well, a lot of the deleted scenes were about Harry's scar hurting and the trio wondering more about who is behind putting his name in the Goblet of fire and Voldemort. So Newell did plan it but decided to make it more of a romantic comedy in the guise of a thriller rather than a suspense mystery.

Oh and when Harry escapes the graveyard by portkey, does anyone think it would have been better to not show Voldemort screaming in rage? I think It'd be more frighting if Harry leaves and we leave with him.

DarwinMayflower

September 12th, 2007, 8:06 am

yoshi2542

September 12th, 2007, 9:39 am

If you're looking for the gleam of triumph, it's just after Harry says, "I'm sorry professor, I couldn't help it.", Dumbledore looks down overwhelmed, then darts his head up with a slight smirk and a gleam in his eye before it cuts to the next shot.

I think they really missed out with this chapter. As has been said, far too many secondary, even tertiary characters are given reactions to Harry and Cedric, instead of focussing on Harry, Dumbledore, Amos, that little circle, the camera moves away and I think that detracts from the drama. It starts so well, the band playing, Dumbledore's reaction, Harry crying, but then it all goes down the toilet when it comes to leading into the DADA office. I don't know what Newell was thinking, but as you say Darwin, the transition to Moody and Harry just seems to quick, it undermines how serious this all is, that a boy has died, that Voldemort is reborn. It just isn't enough. I think WB were afraid to really go to town on the downbeat nature of this end sequence.

Now, the DADA office. Gleeson is good, Radcliffe is good. Moody really seems to be mad, in a scary way, him touching Harry's wound was good, but it all goes a bit wrong once Dumbledore and his posse arrive. Not only is it framed horribly, it is all over far too quickly, there is no drama to it. It's incredibly predictable, and I think it would have been better to have a shot of Dumbledore framed intimidatingly in the doorway, rather than have a disorienting shot of him obscured by the door and then charging in. Now, Dumbledore in this scene is quite good I think. He's more physical than he is in the book, but I think it works, he certainly looks terrifying when he asks Moddy if he's in this room, and he's suitably pleasant when talking to the real Moody, I love how he and Harry have that same look of sudden, shocked realisation as they see Barty appearing. His final line I thought was more about Dumbledore not liking people who boast about the heroism. Can you imagine Harry or Dumbledore saying "I'll be welcomed back like a hero!", I can't, so I think his line was more about not letting Crouch have the last word, and showing how he prefers a bit of modesty. I never thought the Triwizard Champions could be described as heroes, though. They are winners of a competiton, not heroes. This scene needed a bit more flesh to it though. Perhaps lose McGonagall and have Fudge instead, have him dispute Crouch's story and have Dumbledore tell him to shut it. I don't know. Also, originally this is where we go to the proper Priori Incatatem scene, as they shot originally, where DD leads Harry away from the DADA office, to a balcony where they talk about what happened.

Also, the chapter is edited sloppily, in the first close-up on Arthur and Amos, you can see Dumbledore run down the steps in the corner, way before we get the close-up on him, Dumbledore's glasses somehow dissapear on his way to the DADA office, his beard length is rather short in the office and changes length constantly, Neville is in two different places in the crowd, etc.

KlausBaudelaire

September 12th, 2007, 11:05 am

Phrozenone

September 12th, 2007, 2:07 pm

:Agree's with everyone:

When you see Cedrics head hit the ground and the crowd is cheering I remember feeling like "Wooowww" Fluers reactiong was good, but you're right Darwin, they should've given it to someone who mattered like Cho instead of making Fluer to be even weaker (I've been asked alot of time by friends whats the point of her being there.) The beginning of the scene is gold though. Dumbledore rushing to Harry and trying to comfort him aswell as Amos as he cries for his son (This part tugged at my heart, I mean I got a little teary eyed in the theater on this part.) Then of course we cut around the crowd for reactions, most being weird for the most part. You have Fudge telling Dumbledore to move the body because there's too many people nd Harry desperatly trying to tell him that Voldemorts back. I love the interaction between Radcliffe and Gambon here because it just seems so real. But of course Moody grabs him, takes him away as Fred and George follow in the background before we pan out to a view of the castle.

Now is it me or do you think it took some time to get back to Moody's office? I mean I've played the game, the school is HUGE and I"m sure that was a good 20 min walk lol. Anyways once we get back into the office its the typical 'unveiling the enemy' scene, which by now if anyone doesn't know then jeez haven't you been paying attention to this movie at all? The reaction to the Polyjuice Potion....not exactly how they reacted in the 2nd movie...but of course used for dramatic effect. So we have Moody basically explaining what he did all year and Harry staring in disbelief and BAM the door flies open and in comes Dumbledore, Snape, and McGonnagal.

GREAT idea for suggesting Fudge be there instead, that could've killed two birds with one stone actually. They could've atleast had a parting of the ways type thing in this scene...but it wasn't so. LOL at that picture Darwin, you're right...I can only imagine the captions someone could come up with that one. I love the little 'look' Snape gives Harry after Dumbledore says "Now we know who's been stealing from you Severus" That look always cracks me up and I liked the way the chest opened, but I think it was a little dramatic how Snape used the spell. Oh that Yates...always going for over the top.

I noticed the gleam of triump after Yoshi mentioned it aswell. It's there and I'm glad it is...Dumbledore actually seems quite happy about what happens until Crouch opens his mouth and thus the 'heroes' line, which I've never really liked or disliked. To me it did seem like Dumbledore just having the final word. I saw a picture of the scene where Dumbledore and Harry are standing on the astronomy tower talking about the events, hope we get to see that scene. Oh and of course the tongue flick at the end of the scene got a laugh out of the audience, which I don't think was intentional, but like I said what can we do?

Dark Emperor

September 12th, 2007, 5:11 pm

Had Goldenberg penned the film, it very well could have had the big reveal in the graveyard. Alas, it did not. I'm sure Newell would have gone with it if Kloves had written it that way, thus I don't think it's the director's fault that it wasn't done that way.

That said, he could have made the big reveal he had to work with a bit more subtle, a bit more surprising, and that alone would have fixed the scene. In my opinion, of course..

underscore

September 12th, 2007, 6:31 pm

I like when Dumbledore says "Personally I've never had time for heroes". Very philosophical in how he says it so 'matter-of-factly' and with such irreverance to the notion of heroics.

It goes in line with Newell's whole sub-theme about the negative results of nationalist jingoistic behaviour and foolish heroics versus "international cooperation" and "moral fiber" which he's done beautifully with his whole tongue in cheek take on English boarding schools and London's historical infamy for consistently hosting the worst Olympic games throughout this movie (All three times they hosted things went very wrong).

DarwinMayflower

September 13th, 2007, 1:37 am

Terrible ending.
As Wimsey once suggested, a wise director would have revelead the identity of Fake!Moody in the graveyard, something like this: Harry is tethered to the statue, sees Moody arriving, and thinks his saviour is there.
But then Voldemort unmasks him, explains what Crouch Jr did for him, et voilà, the deal is done! (Maybe show Voldemort kill Barty Crouch Jr for some extremely stupid reason, just to show that he has no pity for his enemies as for his followers).
I am aware this is really aggressive adaptation, but it would have saved time and added tension at the climax scene of the movie.
Kloves and Newell chose to be literal instead, and what do we have now? a pathetic dialogue between Harry and Fake!Moody, IMHO:'Did you see the Dark Lord? What did he look like? What did he sound like? What did he taste like?' Everytime I watch the scene, I shrudder.
I'm sorry to be so hard on Newell and Kloves, but the ending is really one of the worst scenes in GoF.
That's a pretty great idea. But I'd go one step further, only to have Fake!Moody still be fake Moody, manage to grab a hold of Potter getting to Cedric but not quick enough to prevent him from accioing' the cup. Fake!Moody comes back to the stadium and the polyjuice potion wears off, cue reveal stuff and voila...ending. Have Dumbledore escort Harry out.

Why McGonnagall was there is probably becuase of the FoeGlass in the first place. Just having Crouch there wouldn't really make any sense of having 2 out of the 3 weird faces in the foe glass being there. However so many things earlier in the film had been tossed out with any sort of revelence to the latter part of the film, they could have easily implemented the Crouch situation that many suggested. I'm sure she was supposed to be there more than just for the Foe Glass, but still...one can't help to think she was wasted for that small continuity in the film of which they don't actually show.

Now is it me or do you think it took some time to get back to Moody's office? I mean I've played the game, the school is HUGE and I"m sure that was a good 20 min walk lol. Anyways once we get back into the office its the typical 'unveiling the enemy' scene, which by now if anyone doesn't know then jeez haven't you been paying attention to this movie at all? The reaction to the Polyjuice Potion....not exactly how they reacted in the 2nd movie...but of course used for dramatic effect. So we have Moody basically explaining what he did all year and Harry staring in disbelief and BAM the door flies open and in comes Dumbledore, Snape, and McGonnagal.

Never noticed the time thing, but yeah...20 minutes is a long ways to walk for student who just seen a murder.
I like when Dumbledore says "Personally I've never had time for heroes". Very philosophical in how he says it so 'matter-of-factly' and with such irreverance to the notion of heroics.

It goes in line with Newell's whole sub-theme about the negative results of nationalist jingoistic behaviour and foolish heroics versus "international cooperation" and "moral fiber" which he's done beautifully with his whole tongue in cheek take on English boarding schools and London's historical infamy for consistently hosting the worst Olympic games (All three times they were hosted there things went very wrong) throughout this movie.[/QUOTE]
I'm not familiar with the UK's streak with hosting the Olympics but that's a very neat little sub-theme going on there. But to touch upon some people's thoughts on the line, it's not that I don't like it. It is a character trait that Dumbledore does indeed have as underscore and yoshi mentioned but like I said before, I just don't like how it's just inconsistent to what he had done for the past 2 hours regarding the Tri-Wizard tournament.

Thinking a bit less rantilly now, I would have wanted Fudge to play more of a Ludo Bagman role of promoting the glorification of the tournament with Dumbledore focusing on the bravery and united feeling between different cultures of which would have made the eulogy far FAR more revelent. It wouldn't feel like bookends of Dumbledore's appreciation for all walks of life. Plus it would at least have given a greater kick to the line when he said it because it would be a cumulation of his opposition to Fudge's constant heroic comments to his more sincere feelings towards this event. It's funny because after seeing OoTP I half imagine moments where Dumbledore is trying promote the benefits of hosting other cultures in their castle while Fudge interrupts him much like Umbridge. Complete of course with curious looks of confusion by Dumbledore as to what Fudge is trying to do.

LordOfSith

September 13th, 2007, 2:04 am

One of my favorite things in this scene is after Dumbledore checks Fake!Moody's flask, finds the polyjuice potion and says "Now we know who's been stealing from your store, Severus" (or something like that) and Harry and Snape shoot those looks at each other behind Dumbledore and McGonagall. That makes me smile every time, so classic!

fire angel

September 13th, 2007, 11:42 am

yoshi2542

September 13th, 2007, 12:05 pm

Sorry if this is a little bit behind, but I was just wondering why in the graveyard scene did Harry not try to resist Wormtail slicing his arm. I mean sure he was trapped on that tombstone thing, but his arms seemed quite free and if I were him I would have tried all my best to punch, kick whatever, before letting him take my blood. It seemed like Harry's hands were glued or something, with the way he just stood there and let Wormtail cut him.

I think that is just WB wanting to keep the rating as low as possible. I mean, Wormtail is rather quiet for someone who just cut their hand off at the wrist, but studios are loathe to include genuinely dark material in a series of ,initially, childrens films. It's a shame that the serious stuff in the books, the deaths, the torture, the horrible things that Voldemort and his followers do, will always be softened so as not to offend parents. I mean, look at when Cedric died. When we saw Moody kill the spider, the spell literally thumped into the spider, killing it. On Cedric, it's a sort of light that surrounds him and spins him around, blasting him backwards. It's effect is more like a green-tinted stupefy rather than the killing curse. It's an understandable thing to do, and I doubt Newell liked doing it, but unfortunately, these will always be seen as childrens films, and that means that punches will be pulled. Perhaps in these last two films WB will stop pandering like this, but I sincerely doubt it. Studios only care about the bottom line, and including realistic-looking violence in Potter films would jeapordise that.

Richard_Gambon

September 13th, 2007, 3:30 pm

Does anyone have the picture of Harry and DD from this supposed cut scene?

yoshi2542

September 13th, 2007, 4:33 pm

Tabris93

September 13th, 2007, 9:08 pm

Amos Diggory's reaction gives me a lump in my throat every time I see it. It's heartbreaking. I think everyone's reaction here is so, so sad. Including Fleur's scream.

The Fake!Moody-scene is ok. I think Radcliffe is doing a fair peace of acting here. I also love the little detail of Snape using a non-verbal spell. Dumbledore is... well, I think I've made my views on Gambon fairly obvious, I don't need to repeat it again. ;)

Phrozenone

September 13th, 2007, 10:41 pm

After much trawling of the interweb, here's Dumbledore and Harry on the balcony:

http://www.danradcliffe.us/coppermine/displayimage.php?pid=15392&fullsize=1

And here's a description of the scene, along with another picture.

http://www.danradcliffe.us/coppermine/displayimage.php?pid=15393&fullsize=1

Oh, what could have been, I bet the view of Hogwarts while DD and Harry are talking is great. Oh well, perhaps the footage will see the light of day on a DVD release sometime (I sincerely doubt it).

UGH WHY DIDN'T THEY JUST KEEP THAT SCENE IN!!!

*breathes*

Ok I guess it's for flowing reasons...but still it looks incredible. And seeing Dumbledore standing there looking out with Harry just reminds me of what we'll be seeing in HBP in a way. Never saw the picture of Dumbledore's hand on Harry's shoulder though, thanks! :tu::tu:

MasterOfDeath

September 13th, 2007, 10:55 pm

DarwinMayflower

September 13th, 2007, 11:00 pm

yoshi2542

September 13th, 2007, 11:21 pm

This final chapter is, like the whole film, a mixed bag. It's so obvious that DDs speech is spliced together from different takes, his voice starts soft, then gets all loud and gruff, then ends all rich and soft, Newell really needed to decide whether he wanted Albudo Bagmandore or Albus Dumbledore to be giving this eulogy. Krum gives a great sad look as DD is speaking, far better than Harry and Hermione whose reactions seem forced.

The scene in the dormitory is good, starts with an odd snippet from DDs past, the bed curtains was a great line, as was his apology, but the dialogue does not feel like a real conversation, it feels like a heavily condensed version a much longer scene (which it is, see my above post), and this is where the movie should have ended. DD should tell Harry he's not alone, then we pan out the window and see the carriage and ship. The scene in the courtyard was horrible. Truly terrible, a simpering, badly acted clunker of an end scene, worthy of Columbus.

And one final thing that irks me. Wear your glasses Dumbledore! Silly Newell for starting this thing with DD not wearing glasses! :grumble:

underscore

September 13th, 2007, 11:27 pm

yoshi2542

September 13th, 2007, 11:37 pm

I don't mean to be one of those members who start arguments and stuff, but please don't be silly. That assumption is so ridiculous. OBVIOUSLY the man is acting that way on purpose and has been directed to act that way by the director. It's what we call "range". The opposite of this performance is what we would consider "flat".

I don't agree. DD is barking at them one minute, then soft and tender the next. It's messy, and sounds weird and inappropriate, to go from DD all contemplative in his chair, speaking fondly about Cedric, to being all gruff like he is inthe middle, then back to kindly again. A sombre, tender reading like the final few lines would be better than the rollercoaster of tones that DD uses throughout, it just sounds weird, be it for direction or having to splice together different lines in post production. Notice how we don't really see DD once he walks to the lectern, they could easily have tried to change the scene by using different lines from different takes when they dubbed it. I should have phrased it differently in my other post, I should have said Gambons delivery is so variable that it's as if it's spliced together from different takes.

Phrozenone

September 14th, 2007, 12:32 am

Oh God...I can never watch the ending of this movie *sigh* Anyways...

I liked the Eulogy...but I agree it's kinda random that he gets all loud for a second, then back to soft. Maybe it's for dramatic effect. I dunno.

I like the scene in the dorm (Although I'm sure I would like the scene on the balcony better...ARHHGGHHHHHH) I liked the curtain joke, but to me this feels like a scene they wrote near the end of shooting and got Dan and Gambon to film (I don't even remember seeing any cuts on Harry's face during this scene, but they're there for the next. Maybe I should check again...) One of my favorite lines of the entire series is in this scene however. 'Soon we must all face the choice between what is right and what is easy' So true and how he slowly looks up at Harry's scar as he says this. Excellent.

Then there's the next scene. I usually stop the movie after this however and I agree that the scene between Dumbledore and Harry would've been a nice ending, but you know we have to see the trio again one last time and HAPPYYYYY!! WHOOO someone just died, but make sure you write me this summer Harry!! AHhhh sunshine, rainbows, and unicorns. The worse ending to all the Harry Potter movies to date (I actually didn't like the COS one due to the clapping for Hagrid, but that's just me)

It just seemed so....odd. Oh and the way Emma delievered "Everythings going to change now, isn't it" um....Newell...did you actually think that was good? No wait you weren't on set that day right? One of ur other guys directed it? No....then how come u didn't have her do it over. Newell let Emma get away with ALOT of stuff. I loved her in every movie before this and thankfully it seems like Yates has calmed her down. I've never cringed that much at the acting in the Harry Potter movies as much as I did in this one (Atleast the first watch through)

Alas we get a nice shot of the two schools leaving and we fade to black. And I get out of my seat feeling slightly confused about that ending lol.

Tabris93

September 16th, 2007, 7:54 am

This is the weakest part of the movie, I would say. They cold have dropped most of it and replaced it with the real Parting of the Ways, that would have been much more interesting.

Unfortunately, I never believe in Gambon as Dumbledore. He might be a very skilled actor, but he just doesn't give me the feel of being wise, caring and the greatest wizard of our age. All I see is a middle-aged man walking around in a night-gown.

I just saw CoS again, and even though I can see the faults like weak acting from the trio and a very sick Harris, it says a lot in my book that a dying Harris portrays a fair greater and believable Dumbledore than a virile and agile Gambon. (In my opinion, that is).

Half_Blood26

September 16th, 2007, 10:59 pm

Yes! I agree! Dumbledore looks like he SINCERELY cares and loves Harry in that scene and feels for him! This movie needed more of there relationship and a closure to that set piece and an explanation on the wands!

Why did they have to cut it?? It wouldn't have affected the pacing at all....

I know what you mean, even though it wasn't a huge part, it would have made the movie a little better, and, like you said, it wouldn't have affected the pacing.

thehollow

September 17th, 2007, 2:34 am

I guess the only thing out of that scene I liked was Dumbledores' quote of '..what is right and what is easy'. Everything else was just..blah and I too stop watching the movie from that point.

Dark Emperor

September 17th, 2007, 3:28 am

DarwinMayflower

September 17th, 2007, 4:10 am

Now that we have ended this movie for all intents and purposes, are we going to go straight into OOTP or wait for the DVD? If we are waiting for the DVD (which I hope, since it'd make things easier) what will happen to the thread? Let it die and start version 3 or talk about something regarding the general franchise in the meantime, seeing as it will only be a few months before it comes out?
We have yet to discuss the credits as tradition dictates. I'll be putting up that post either later or tommorow. Or whenever I feel like it; also as tradition dictates. GO SEE EASTERN PROMISES.

Dark Emperor

September 18th, 2007, 4:37 am

OT- I would see Eastern Promises if it didn't look so suspiciously like a refocus on History of Violence....

On topic-

Perhaps the trailers of each movie should be analyzed then? After all it'll only be a month or so until the DVD hits the UK.

DarwinMayflower

September 20th, 2007, 5:36 am

Previous Movie Posts
Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?p=4008974#post4008974)
Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?p=4194472#4194472)
Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?p=4458336#4458336)

Previous Chapter Post
GoF Chp 1: The Riddle House (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?p=4466355#4466355)
GoF Chp 2: The Port Key (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?p=4469812#4469812)
GoF Chp 3: The Quidditch World Cup (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?p=4486249#4486249)
GoF Chp 4: The Dark Mark (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?p=4490175#4490175)
GoF Chp 5: The Tri-Wizard Tournament (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?p=4500080#4500080)
GoF Chp 6: The Goblet of Fire (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?p=4503906#4503906)
GoF Chp 7: The Unforgivable Curses (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?p=4509248#4509248)
GoF Chp 8: The Four Champions (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?p=4526093#4526093)
GoF Chp 9: Let Events Unfold
GoF Chp 10: Rita Skeeter (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?p=4567217#4567217)
GoF Chp 11: Sirius Conversation (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?p=4594581#4594581)
GoF Chp 12: The Hungarian Horntail (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?p=4602952#4602952)
GoF Chp 13: Transforming Malfoy (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?p=4609679#4609679)
GoF Chp 14: The First Task (Part 1) (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?p=4620512#4620512)
GoF Chp 14: The First Task (Part 2) (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?p=4632787#4632787)
GoF Chp 15: Best Foot Forward (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?p=4665708#4665708)
GoF Chp 16: An Unexpected Challenge (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?p=4680756#4680756)
GoF Chp 17: The Yule Ball (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?p=4694103#4694103)
GoF Chp 18: The Egg's Clue (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?p=4705055#4705055)
GoF Chp 19: The Second Task (Part 1) (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?p=4711364#4711364)
GoF Chp 19: The Second Task (Part 2) (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?p=4721089#4721089)
GoF Chp 20: Never Whole Again (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?p=4740094#4740094)
GoF Chp 21: The Pensieve (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?p=4756898#4756898)
GoF Chp 22: Dreams and Suspicsions (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?p=4759708#4759708)
GoF Chp 23: The Third Task (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?p=4761917#4761917)
GoF Chp 24: Flesh Blood and Bone
GoF Chp 25: The Death Eaters
GoF Chp 26: Priori Incantatem (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?p=4766597#4766597)
GoF Chp 27: Veritaserum (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?p=4761917#4761917)
GoF Chp 28: Parting Ways (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?p=4775139#4775139)

Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire Chapter 29: End Credits

FINALLY

We are at the end of GoF. Something that should have been done months ago had I just manned up and gung ho'd through the thing, but however much it looked like I was attempting coincide the finish of GoF with the OoTP DVD release date is unintentional and I appologize for taking so long. So now that we are at the end credits we shall discuss the film as a whole as dictated by tradition for the other films' credits as well.

Favorite Chapter: It's a semi-tough decision because one of the things that keeps a majority of my rewatching interest in the film is (say it with me now *ALTOGETHER*)

DRAGONS!!!!

GoF Chp 14: The First Task (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?p=4620512#4620512) is something I can watch over and over again and most rewatchable of the 3 tasks. The most temptation I ever had to buy a Blu-Ray dvd player is seeing GoF in High Def with a large screen. You can count the scales on that damn dragon. If I were a 100% HP film geek, I would put a down payment on it right away. However I'm not. The problem I find with the chapter is that it's faults outweigh it's strengths. While the dragon is fantastic, Radcliffe is not and doesn't show as much liveliness than his SFX counterpart. In addition, while there are some fantastic shots, the chase scene after Harry gets his broom back from the roof reminded me far too much of the Star Wars Death-Star trench run from CoS's quidditch match. So with that in mind my favorite chapter has to go to another dragon of sorts:

http://img292.imageshack.us/img292/4463/mouthty6.jpg
http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/582/normalgof2529hg8.jpg
SMILE FOR THE CAMERA

Yes even though it's somewhat of a 3 way tie I'd have to settle for GoF Chp 25: The Death Eaters (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?p=4766597#4766597). Fiennes basically made the scene what GoF is supposed to be while everything else beforehand (and afterwards) struggles to find solid footing in representing GoF either faithfully or spiritually. This is the scene that basically has my butt glued to seat until afterwards where I just left the theatre during my second viewing. If this scene is capable of keeping to bear the mess of a film before it; then it goes to show how much I like this scene.

Favorite actor/actress: I'd like to give it to the twins, but even they had some stinker of lines. Reading the above paragraph, it's pretty obivious that Ralph Fiennes got the Best in Stealing the Show award this installment. For such a small appearance he manages to be Voldemort in less time that it took for other actors and actresses with more screentime than him in the film or even the entire series. While I've never seen the characteristic of being a psychopath that JKR assigned to Voldemort, Fiennes made it crystal clear beyond a doubt. He has the best lines and no bad ones. Pattison, I should also give the honour too. For such a short time he made Cedric all the best that he can possibly be.

Anything new learned from this thread: Once again a lot of things but more continuity mistakes than anything else. I think the biggest thing is now knowing why I like and hate Newall's choice in cinematography at times. Most importantly being able to express that in words.

Anything feelings towards the film changed from the last time watching it?: It's hard to say because my feelings have changed due to watching OoTP and GoF by comparison looks like amateur hour at the film school. Keeping in mind just the thread, my post in the Cuaron, Columbus, Newall, Yates Deathmatch (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=110714) summarizes how I feel about it.

The more I think about Newall, the more I think he got the possibly worst film installment period. Don't get me wrong, much like Columbus, this does not reflect on how little I think of his directional abilities. But come on, after seeing OoTP, GoF was amateur hour compared to Yates.

I mean every other director got their own little compatability; Columbus with the saccharine 1st and 2nd (which barely got away with it); Cuaron with the maturing 3rd and Yates with the politically driven 5th but Newall...he was stuck with the one that you can't possibly messed up but did in some astounding way.

I mean you have the plot of Voldemort coming back, Harry at school trying to solve this and 3 monumentally awesome no-brainer-cannot-screw-up-wizarding-tasks in the film and yet it's this exact combination that made Newall basically hang onto this production by the skin of his teeth. He took everything by piece meal and to some degree you never gotten a feeling you were watching a complete movie. Drastic edits and scene transitions that were even jarring for the most seasoned of movie vet and geek. The film as a whole had no cohesion at all and even Columbus with his bloated films at least had some resemblence from one scene to another, with Newall it's like seeing a 3.0hr movie in 2.5hrs.

It's not that I want it to be longer, but there are times when you see the cuts it mentally hiccups you into realizing that this movie is really slapped together. There's a beginning and end in every other scene, the acting is reflective of Columbus' films where there are periods of greatness with more dismal periods than usual. No one feels especially comfortable with their roles with the exception of Ralph Fiennes and Grint; and the latter even feels a bit out of place.

On the other hand, the 3 tasks were amazing to behold. Not adaption wise but as the production values really show that even though Newall didn't direct people well, he certainly knew what he wanted the audience to feel when a scenary or landscape shot was front and center. As amazing as Cuaron's but not as naturally occuring, he makes some shots look like documentarys with others showing the danger and life of the Hogwarts landscape.

In the end Newall got a very VERY short end of the stick. Stuck with 3 tasks to make exciting in the action movie of the series (as of that time) along with Voldemort's return; he was stuck with having to do things a certain way or else he'd probably be flamed alive. I give him kudos for pulling through without making it a complete travesty but let's put it this way:

If I could walk out of the theatre before GoF was done on my 2nd viewing, right after the graveyard scene; it goes to show how little Newall has done to captivate me in the film as a whole.
Basically said, every single scene felt like a short film. It is like Newall decided to make 29+ short films about Harry Potter and the Goblet of fire and mucked in all together. While it produced some great scenes, it lacked a cohesion that made it more than sum of it's parts. It felt incomplete at times. I still thought it was great, but as said before Yates just showed how bad it is in comparison.

Knowing this it lead me to the theory that:

Odd # installments of the HP series are Good-Alright
Even # installments of the HP series are Bad.

Which means HBP is going to be COMPLETE GARBAGE or near it. You can quote me on that.

Things of Note

Music used in the scene (http://www.amazon.com/Harry-Potter-Goblet-Stuart-Cassells/dp/B000BGH22W/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/002-9513408-3692803?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1176962363&sr=1-1): Track 24: Magic Works
Music Cue list greatly supplied by The Harry Potter Lexicon (http://www.hp-lexicon.org/about/films/gf/film_gf-soundtrack.html)

So that's it people. As said in my signature for the past week or so, I'm leaving this thread and these forums for a long while. Quite glad that OoTP is being released on Dec 11th which gives me a much needed break from the thread and a time to recharge my brain. It didn't turn out to what I expected; especially considering that this is one of the biggest if not *the* biggest HP fan forum on the net that I'd get more input and discussion. Especially considering how opinionated and well versed some people are when discussing the novels, I had expected the turn out to be equally busy in the muggle forums. I guess Radcliffe's hair length took precedent over this anyways. Oh well you win some and you lose some.

I do have to thank some great members on here who participated the best they can and made this thread more of a success after my expectations were dashed and made this more than *just* the DarwinMayflower "One-man-rant-show." Thanks go out to Phrozenone, yoshi2542, Dark Emperor, lindaluna, MoodyHarry, underscore, psycha, RoonibWazley, Paranoidndroid, Atreides, NoDayBut2Day, Solaris23, Paper_Shoes, Wimsey, Paper_Shoes, k4r6000, Queen_Beruth and many others that I'm sure I forgotten.

Special thanks goes to Tabris93 for being the only fan of the Columbus films in face of 1:23 odds against non-Columbus fans to actually do what I almost never though would happen: discuss the films past the idea of just being faithful to the novel. As debates did open up between her and the rest of you guys, I am impressed that they were resolved with minimal interference by me and I love that you guys all have common-sense.

For the rest of you Columbus fans; you were given an opputunity to discuss and even defend why you liked PS and especially CoS. You all had a chance to persuade me or at least show me insight as to why you like the films. Instead you only confirmed my worst fears. Your accurac-ianado feelings make you want more a visual representation of the audio books rather than actually go outside and discuss the films as the art it should be regarded as. While none of you decided to take me for example to express your opinion in detail; you should have at least taken a page out of Tabris93's book and attempted to discuss it outside of your normal boundries.

Final thanks has to go to dungeonguard of which this thread would have never happened in the first place. Also thanks goes to PorridgeBoy for starting out with such a great format, that I decided to totally steal from him. Basically without those two, this thread would have probably been deleted far sooner than it should ever have been.

That's basically it. I'll be sticking around for the next few days to finish up some things, but if anyone wants to e-mail me at darwinmay@gmail.com. For those who were looking for my post of all the chapter links, no such thing this time. As said before, I'm compiling an archive of the HP DVD Chapter a day thread at http://mcpotterdore.livejournal.com/ and hopefully now that I have the time I can update that darn thing to have everything in it now. This thread's direction for the next few months is up to you guys because until the OoTP dvd comes out on Dec 11th, I'm not going to be directing this thread in any way. Even then I might take a bit of time to watch the film and get my bearings and thoughts together on the film; IF I come back at all. However here's hoping that the thread will be here when I get back and if not...well I'll just make a new one.

Before I say see you later, I do like to keep in mind some things for the next time I'll be doing this thing (and as tradition dicates ;P),

Do you like the format? Do you want anything changed with the format of posting?
Would you like to suggest anything in regards to what's being posted for the beginning of each chapter?
What would you want to be for the focus of each chapter post? Less about cinema more about Harry Potter? Is there anything off or insulting that you'd prefer to not exist in the thread?
Do you still want to keep the discussion at one chapter per 2 days? Or perhaps longer? Should there be an option to leave one or two chapters open longer for discussion if it warrants it?
Is there enough discussion in the thread? Or does it seem that this thread isn't really creating much discussion in the first place? Should there be an addition to the format of the chapter posts to encourage discussion? I.e. rating each chapter, more tidibits of information, favorite actor/actress in the scene etc.?
Should we revisit some chapters in the future? If yes how so?

As always I love you guys' and gals' input because you make the thread as much as I do. Other than that have a good break from me ranting for ages and ages. Here's hoping for a brighter future for most of you and I'll probably see you in December! Here's one final screenshot! Toodles!
http://img256.imageshack.us/img256/4827/gildhu3.jpg

MoodyHarry

September 20th, 2007, 8:13 pm

DarwinMayflower,

Just wanted to extend my thanks and appreciated for the massive and
unprecedented amount of work and effort you have put into this thread.
It is one of the most enjoyable in these forums.

It's too bad you will "disappear" for a few months but definitely looking forward to your return.

Go rest, relax and rejuvenate.
We'll be anticipating your return. :)

thehollow

September 20th, 2007, 8:43 pm

I'll miss this even though the next movie will be out in the next months, and though I'm still new to this thread, I'd like to thank you DarwinMayflower for all your hardwork. It's great to read others thoughts on all the different details of each chapter of each film so, can't wait to come back for the next DVD. :)

and lol, love the Lockhart picture. :tu:

Tabris93

September 21st, 2007, 7:45 am

Favorite Chapter:

I think I wold have to say the Graveyard scene myself. Ralph Fiennes is brilliant, and the Priori Incantatem-scene gives me chills everytime I see it.

Favorite actor/actress:

For me, it would have to be the twins. They were flawless in this one, and it's their best movie to date in my opinion. Not to mention that they got so much charm in this one it should have been made illegal...

Anything new learned from this thread:

Pretty m[uch I learned that there are more people disliking this movie then I thought. ;)

Anything feelings towards the film changed from the last time watching it?:

Hm, not really. The movie has it's flaws and it has it's moments - and those haven't changed for me.

Special thanks goes to Tabris93 for being the only fan of the Columbus films in face of 1:23 odds against non-Columbus fans to actually do what I almost never though would happen: discuss the films past the idea of just being faithful to the novel. As debates did open up between her and the rest of you guys, I am impressed that they were resolved with minimal interference by me and I love that you guys all have common-sense.

Thanks a bunch, DarwinMayflower! It was tough - and fun. ;)

What would you want to be for the focus of each chapter post? Less about cinema more about Harry Potter? Is there anything off or insulting that you'd prefer to not exist in the thread?

I would have liked the discussions to revovle a bit more around Harry Potter. Of course, discussing camera angles and cinema is important when one is dicussing movies, but it would be even more interesting if we could add more about the Potterverse too. In that way, we could analyze the movie both as a movie in itself and as a Harry Potter movie and how true it is to the Harry Potter world.

Best of luck, and we'll see you in December!

Phrozenone

September 24th, 2007, 1:01 am

Favorite actor/actress: I'll have to agree and say that at the end of the day I really enjoyed Ralph Fiennes. He really did, imo, Voldemort justice and one of the saving graces of this movie.

Anything new learned from this thread: This thread has taught me the difference between book purist and movie fans. I love these books and I love the movies, and for some reason it's like a sin to like both. Also there are alot of continuity, technical, and acting things that I never would've noticed if it weren't for this thread. Oh and that someone really loves DRAGONS!!! lol

Anything feelings towards the film changed from the last time watching it?: I don't think so. Chamber is still my least favorite. I watched it about a week ago and still found myself pausing. It's not a HORRIBLE movie, just the least rewatchable out of the 4 (that I have on DVD right now there is) Prisoner is still my favorite and this thread showed me even more things I never noticed in that film. Actually I think I liked Goblet of Fire more before this thread lol

I do have to thank some great members on here who participated the best they can and made this thread more of a success after my expectations were dashed and made this more than *just* the DarwinMayflower "One-man-rant-show." Thanks go out to Phrozenone, yoshi2542, Dark Emperor, lindaluna, MoodyHarry, underscore, psycha, RoonibWazley, Paranoidndroid, Atreides, NoDayBut2Day, Solaris23, Paper_Shoes, Wimsey, Paper_Shoes, k4r6000, Queen_Beruth and many others that I'm sure I forgotten.

Before I say see you later, I do like to keep in mind some things for the next time I'll be doing this thing (and as tradition dicates ;P),

Do you like the format? Do you want anything changed with the format of posting?
Would you like to suggest anything in regards to what's being posted for the beginning of each chapter?
What would you want to be for the focus of each chapter post? Less about cinema more about Harry Potter? Is there anything off or insulting that you'd prefer to not exist in the thread?
Do you still want to keep the discussion at one chapter per 2 days? Or perhaps longer? Should there be an option to leave one or two chapters open longer for discussion if it warrants it?
Is there enough discussion in the thread? Or does it seem that this thread isn't really creating much discussion in the first place? Should there be an addition to the format of the chapter posts to encourage discussion? I.e. rating each chapter, more tidibits of information, favorite actor/actress in the scene etc.?
Should we revisit some chapters in the future? If yes how so?

As always I love you guys' and gals' input because you make the thread as much as I do. Other than that have a good break from me ranting for ages and ages. Here's hoping for a brighter future for most of you and I'll probably see you in December! Here's one final screenshot! Toodles!
http://img256.imageshack.us/img256/4827/gildhu3.jpg

Ah Darwin thanks for creating this amazing thread. This is the thread that made me sign up actually (as I've said numerous of times) and I will def be emailing you. We should keep in touch, become friends, and go out and vanquish all book purists that oppose us lol. Tabris you're a great sport and I'm glad you were in this post. It wouldn't have been half as interesting with only people that enjoyed the same movies.

Also I love the format I think it worked well and if it's not broke don't fix it. I loved how everything flowed. I think the 1 per two days works fine and if it warrents longer than so be it. I think we should look at the chapters from two different veiwpoints. One as a movie and then discuss it as an adaptation.

I think the only reason we should revisit past chapters is if it's tied to in some way a scene in the next film. The good thing is Yates did enough of that all ready so I doubt we'll have to use that feature.

Once again Darwin thanks for this thread. I love your long winded posts and I wish I could've posted more but once school got hectic I had to lay off for a while. I'm glad I was able to come back before GOF was over and I will try my best to be there everyday for OOTP because I have ALOT to say about that movie :p I'll be emailing you soon and have a great great GREAT vacation and I will see you in December! :cool:

Dark Emperor

September 25th, 2007, 4:58 am

Thankye for the fun times, Darwin, and thanks for listing me. And now I delve in head first into HBP filming mania...

lindaluna

October 20th, 2007, 7:06 pm

Great - I came back in time for Darwin to leave!

Well I am over my flatness & grief at book 7 and looking forward to the movie making. But where will the mysteries be? maybe incorporating all JKR's conference remarks. Ah well!

DarwinMayflower

December 4th, 2007, 12:11 am

OoTP Promotional Media BLITZ!

I don't know how much time I'll have when my new job starts, so I might as well start of with this stuff. Don't know really what to say...this lack of dragons in the film really put a damper on my enthusiasm. Can't really say I paid attention all that much...yeah.

Trailers

Inside out zombie horses are not a suitable replacement for dragons. Nothing to talk about here.

Theatrical Posters

Dra....ah forget it.

Tabris93

December 4th, 2007, 5:36 am

I LOVED the teaser trailer. In my opinion, that was my favourite take of Harry's "If Voldemort's building up an army, than I want to fight". Better than the one they chose for the movie itself. Wasn't the Occlumency-scene a bit different too? The take, I mean? Or maybe I'm mixing it here. There were a few discussions from the teaser whether or not Snape was acting too kind towards Harry. Guess the movie cleared that one up.

I still get a lump in my throat when watching the trailer on HD, to be honest.

DarwinMayflower

December 4th, 2007, 5:53 am

OoTP Promotional Media BLITZ!

Well now that I got my head on straight and drank some cranberry juice, might as well talk about the promotional material of OoTP. Our hopes, our dreams, our hindsights and retrospects and most of all the most unbearable burning wait of waiting for the movie to come out when waiting.

For me and like the last promotional post about GoF, once again I had no to little expectations. GoF was a resounding MEH, with some particularly juicy YEH parts, but from a series perspective I had little to base any sort of expectations from. There was this underlying feeling that OoTP would be more related to the series rather than being one shots like PS, CoS, PoA and GoF came off to be. However any real expectation was firmly attached to OoTP the book which was also a big pile of MEH-tansia. The weakest book as I said in my post about the HP films being a trilogy (http://cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=4837192&postcount=15) there was much to be gained but also a heck of a lot to be incredibly bored of.

The interesting thing though was how much gosh darn hype there was around this film. We might never know this ever, but the marketing strategy was even more than usual. Perhaps supported by the somewhat more rebounding and success of GoF sales, perhaps knowing that OoTP was a pretty weak book to start off which was an adaptation nightmare or most likely of all it was the final film to be released before the final release of Book 7 so therefore go out with a bang. Whether it was just a new marketing team or a combination of events I don't know but it did work to a certain degree. Even with the drip drip release of movie pictures (in high res no less) it was certainly doing something right in being able to take the tiniest bit of concentration away from maintaining this thread. Of which coupled with my own lack of interest actually had me far less invested with the promotional material, Luna Lovegood and Umbridge images alike. And who am I kidding, no dragons = no interest from me.

However I did have some ill will towards the movie. Call it bias, call it being an outright fanboy (although I think I hide it well) but I secretly wanted OoTP to fail in some respect. I didn't want Cuaron to be outstripped by some director which I knew ZERO about and as reviews came in; whatever little interest I had in posting about the film I would subtly try to dishearten even the most optimistic of review or not post any thoughts at all. Frankly that bias is still there, I cheered when movie reviewers still had PoA at the top and my soul crushed a bit when a informative reviewer would say something to make it out to be better. However it's funny what time could do, even with HBP I wish for it to be not as polished not only because of my bias, but to prove my homebrewn theory that Even #'d HP films SUCK TERRIBLY. Still I think the source of my fanboyism was based more on the lack of understanding who were the creative forces behind OoTP and now with a more familiar Yates and the cinematographer from Amelie on board, I'm far more optimistic and interested than before. But enough about my introspection, THIS IS ABOUT OOTP!!!!

Trailers

Link to OoTP Trailer 1 (http://www.apple.com/trailers/wb/harrypotterandtheorderofthephoenix/trailer1/)

iKC0W3mF1wA
I don't quite know if OoTP had a teaser of sorts. I think the poster of Voldemort with the tagline of "You will lose everything" appeared first amongst many other pictures before the trailers but it's because of the media blitz and my own disinterest that I lost track of this type of stuff.

This trailer was pretty decent in hindsight. I remember me having some qualms about it and they still stand. While the flow and cuts were very good, making the trailer almost like a mini-movie unto itself, a lot of doubts risen up from the shots I seen. Boring cinematography, nothing that really grabs me and worst of all a LOT of shots of pedestrian muggle areas. There's nothing wrong with that, the flow was great the music was pretty intense however at the same time it felt a bit too forced. Like they were trying to overcome apparent weaknesses. One big point was Dumbledore saying "incontrovertible". That's like saying Hermione saying "loquacious " in GoF which was a sad attempt at making it sound more mature.

It might because I love trailers that are not boring a heck, it might be because of my familiarity of the topic, but in all decency this trailer was cut and dry like an action film. Very decent but also very safe. The last show was a dark totally blurry and over blue Harry flying right into the camera was hardly as impressing as the previous trailer ending shots that we've seen in previously.

Link to Trailer 2 (http://www.apple.com/trailers/wb/harrypotterandtheorderofthephoenix/trailer2/)

NtTHi1gBBak
Like GoF's trailer 2 was garbage. There's a fine line between neatly overcoming your weaknesses and outright misinformation. I do like the focus on the DA which made up a bulk of OoTP in the film, however it really REALLY sounded far too much like a war is happening as opposed to a fight. LOTR much? I knew right from the beginning when Hagrid says "It's changing out there" it's just something out of a bad western. I guess it was easy to get hyped over this but still a lot of conflicted thoughts come to mind when OoTP's text as a whole hardly reflects what occurs in the trailer or at least the tone of the trailer. Less Braveheart, more Potter.

Theatrical Posters

http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/6830/normalootpposter03fs7.jpgThis was the first to to be on the scene which was peculiarly Voldemort. Now personally this is a strange choice to me. It doesn't feel right yet if you think about it, it certainly does make a bit of sense. Given the franchise history, you've only seen the real Voldemort at the end of GoF which was a couple of years ago. Every other instance of him was something else so in making up this poster you not only reaffirm the current image of Voldemort, you also catch people's eyes with a non-Harry character being the first instance of this new film. You also plant it into people's head the image of a villain that once again doesn't appear fully until the end of the movie. Still I don't quite like the tagline. Yes Harry will lose everything but it's one of those things that stating the obvious that wasn't made obvious to being with. OoTP left out the isolation of people taking things away from him personally as opposed to other things just being restricted for all people. The relationship between Dumbledore and Sirius, a lot of it was in Harry's thoughts about his own personal opinion of himself whether he should get more attention. Even his credibility was hardly tarnished in the film which hardly gives the idea that Harry has lost everything. Even knowing the end; the idea of loss is never as emphasized as completely in the film as it is in the book, not that means it's a bad film...but for the tagline to be hinting at what occurs in the film and only to be used as the final words of parting at the END of the film really throws a screwball at what you are to expect from this film in the first place. Clearly when the tagline was considered, the ones in charge didn't take into consideration the history of the film franchise as opposed to basing it on just the book.

http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/4349/normalootpposter04np1.th.jpg (http://img211.imageshack.us/my.php?image=normalootpposter04np1.jpg)This poster on the other hand does exhibit the correct idea of what the film is about. Although I do feel that it's entirely overblowing the idea of rebellion and a tad cliche, at least it's in line with what the film is about. Sadly no one really learned any lessons from last round's of promotion. This is by far the worst poster art I've seen yet. Can it BE any more photoshopped? At least GoF TRIED to look like it was a group shot, it had a tiniest bit of character even if it was totally and utterly stupid and pompous. This poster is just boring. The lighting is unflattering, the clothing inconsistent as heck. Either have all robes or all muggle clothing, not a mishmash of both. Then again I can understand they want to make it look less geeky and more accessible so ok...I'll let that garbage slide. But really, there is hardly anything redeeming from this poster. Aside from the miscommunication of content at least the last poster had their artistic and compositional stories straight. This one looked like Something Awful had a heyday for photoshopping the lamest HP poster. I know you're trying to show a more mature Harry but is absolute BLACK the way to go? I mean I'm sure you'd love to add some black lipstick, spikes and trenchcoats along the way if you can but I guess prep + school prep + lens flare + blackness is the best way to go. Anymore and you'd just annihilate the million dollar advertising budget. And seriously, Ginny? Most unflattering picture EVER. I'd fire the photographer for that one. Totally made me embarrassed to be even watching the films whenever I saw this poster.

http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/9301/normalootpposter08oe5.th.jpg (http://img84.imageshack.us/my.php?image=normalootpposter08oe5.jpg) http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/3425/normalootpposter09ve0.th.jpg (http://img62.imageshack.us/my.php?image=normalootpposter09ve0.jpg) http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/5827/normalootpposter07gc0.th.jpg (http://img84.imageshack.us/my.php?image=normalootpposter07gc0.jpg) http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/9628/normalootpposter06wd5.th.jpg (http://img84.imageshack.us/my.php?image=normalootpposter06wd5.jpg) http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/8618/normalootpposter05om7.th.jpg (http://img84.imageshack.us/my.php?image=normalootpposter05om7.jpg)

The last bit of promotion I'm going to cover is something that I've never seen in theatres and never even noticed until after the OoTP DVD cover was released. Basically, HARRY POTTER AND THE BOWLING NIGHT. Hilarious in some cases, but far better than the atrocity above. I must say it is pretty good in some places. In other places such as Sirius' poster, it looks far too fake and painted. In most cases it looks good clean far less photoshopped than GoF's character specific posters and in actually LEARNING SOMETHING FROM LAST TIME, it looks hella brighter. Far less muddied and dark and actually nice to look at even though a tad overzealous on the contrast button. Funny thing is why the Umbridge picture? I guess to show a completely lack of Dumbledore appearance in the promotional media however sadly they probably wasted some money just to make up that poster just so they could fit in Dumbledore. Every other pair up works Granger with Umbridge, Harry with Voldemort, Weasly with Malfoy, Sirius with Bellatrix and Umbridge again...well I guess she is the main villain this time around, it makes sense yet at the same time just smells of stupidity.

MasterOfDeath

December 4th, 2007, 8:13 am

Order of the Phoenix happens to be my favorite book of the series but the movie was my worst. When I first saw it, I was severely and deeply disappointed. It's pacing and editing was the worst I'd ever seen in a film. I could not understand why they hired a television directer who had never directed a film in his life, and the editor Mark Day...well let's put it this way: It blows my mind the man gets his own DVD extra 'instructing' young fans in editing a film...eh. Sorry I just can't stand the editing or pacing of OOTP and no not because I miss everything that was cut, not at all. In-fact, I've since learned to appreciate how short and subtle Snape's Worst Memory was done because it makes so much more mysterious, intriguing and suggestive. I despise the manner in which the scenes are constructed. No structure, no pacing. The ending was horrid. Cut. Cut. Cut. Nothing had an effect. It was all a breeze. No impact. Very confusing and choppy.

The Promotional material on the other hand was successful. At least for me: A Major fan of OOTP. It promised us the very dramatic dark intense mature epic the book was for me. The trailers really hyped up the feeling of a war being brewed in the mist and the darkness that was approaching. It felt so dangerous, so intense. Too bad the trailer made more sense and was better edited than the film.

The teaser poster was...meh. A photo shopped image of Voldemort from GOF. Nothing new. Hyping up a character that has at best a cameo and less than five short clipped lines? I understand they wanted to remind people of Voldemort, the big bad villain but the film should have done that, not the poster. It just didn't feel original or new or exciting.

The theratical poster was much better. Simple. Subtle. It had a dark backdrop and emphasized the characters, promising the film to be much more character driven (which it was) and dark. Dumbledore's Army was one of the only cohesive and constant plot of the film. It introduces a new character: Luna and I feel it just looks pretty good.

The teaser trailer unfortunately was a more accurate promise of the film: Choppy, rushed, dull.

I'm looking forward to joining in my first 'Chapter a day' and discussing OOTP chapter by chapter with such in-depth fans of cinema.

Phrozenone

December 4th, 2007, 9:12 am

Ah Order of the Phoenix. From the rumour that Imelda Stauton was Umbridge to the open casting for Luna Lovegood this particular film was the one I kept the most watch on as far as Harry Potter is concerned. The first three I was a fan but I wasn't that big of a fan. Goblet I was a pretty big fan but with OOTP I ate up every bit of news.

Steve Kloves is gone...hmm I wonder what this new guys going to do. A tv director? Gosh I wish they'd just bring Cauron back. I remember thinking that Order is the easiest to adapt into a film. Not alot happened and the book was pure fluff. Soon we find out that the 7th and final Harry Potter book is going to be released a mere 2 weeks after this film so this would be that last Harry Potter film that we would see and not know the ending of the series.

The first teaser poster was interesting. I do think that they used Voldemort since to date we've yet to have any major promotional pictures of him. Now is a better time than any I suppose if they want to put him on a poster besides the final one. We find out who Luna is and of course speculation started.

The next poster caused alot of drama due to the enlargment of Emma's breasts on the IMAX version but it was quickly changed. I liked that they had Luna, Ginny, and Neville on the cover...didn't understand why Cho was there but she's the love interest might aswell stick her on there right? 'The Rebellion Begins' was a nice tagline I thought.

I remember actually going to see Happy Feet just to see the OOTP teaser trailer. It was interesting to say the least. Was it the best out of the teasers? Of course not. One of my friends who work in the film industry said he didn't like it because it seemed to 'modern'. Sirius and Dumbledore were the first people we saw and I was happy that they had some of the Occlumency lessons in the trailer. And WOW they have new Death Eater masks. I guess they had to get new one's since Voldemort sent the old one's up in smoke at the end of GOF. I liked the teaser but it didn't tell me anything about the story. All I got from the teaser was Voldemort's back and a war is brewing which I suppose is the point.

The actual trailer was, imo, one of the best Harry Potter trailers to date. I was in awe. I remember me and a friend of mine watching it and both of our mouths were open wide after it ended. I didn't expect it to be that good. The problem with it however, is that I'm sure it gave alot of people the impression that this was another action movie like GOF.

People love action and that's what basically sold the 4th film, but however I'm sure there were alot of angry people when they realized that the bulk of the action was at the end. I think the trailer should've focused more on Harry's internal battle with a bunch of action shots in the end. And that freggin "Who are you and what have you done with Hermione Granger" *sigh*
I'll be happy if I never hear that line again, they put that in EVERYTHING.

Needless to say I was excited about the movie by this point. They promoted this film well I think...wrong sure...but they did a good job at it.

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1274/893241318_50622f070b.jpg?v=0

This particular poster is what I mean. It makes it seem like the entire movie is an all out battle to end all battles. I can see this being the 'Deathly Hallows' poster but it's still a pretty darn cool poster. Hmmm now that I look at it...WHERE the heck are they?

yoshi2542

December 4th, 2007, 9:37 am

Well, I don't think the pre-release materials for this movie were the best. The teaser poster was okay, if a little lazy, the GOF photoshop did it's job, it was teasing, it certainly made Voldemort look important.

The teaser trailer I don't like. It's full of unfinished shots, the shot of London (no thestrals), the decrees smashing (no fireworks) and I don't think it really teases you. It's more like a Sneak Peek than an ad for the film. I do like the line readings of Sirius and Dumbledore, a shame both were changed (interesting that in the movie they redubbed DD's line but had to cut away from when he said 'incontravertible' as it wouldn't look right dubbing a quiet version over an originally loud reading), Dumbledore and Sirius seem more passionate in the teaser.

The final trailer, at least the theatrical one, is strange. It is impressive, but it also gives away every single big moment of the movie. Bella casting the killing curse, DD versus Voldemort, Dumbledore's escape, the escape from Azkaban. It's crazy. The trailer also hinted at the ghastly use of the blue filter that tarred this movie. Look at when DD grabs Fawkes, there is a dreadful blue smear on the right of Fawkes, I hoped this would be removed for the final print, but it wasn't. It was everywhere. Blue/green tint on the floor of the Great Hall during the feast, blue smear all over Harry and the background when he talks to DD and the end, awful blue haze over the final scene with Harry and Luna, it was horrid.

The other posters were okay, I quite like the 2-character ones, but the re-use of POA-era pictures of Dumbledore was lazy.

Phrozenone

December 4th, 2007, 9:42 am

OH YES..Yoshi you just reminded me!

Did you guys realize that they showed Sirius death in the trailer? Like Yoshie said they showed Bellatrix casting AK but the shot we see of Sirius near the end is him in front of the veil after he was hit with it. Of course we didn't know it at the time but I still find it funny that they did that.

Ahhh that blue tint. I was going to save that for the discussion of the film. I guess they thought it'll make the film look more gloomy perhaps?

Heh they did show the WHOLE Dumbledore/Voldemort fight didn't they? That was my problem they showed all the action when there isn't much of it to begin it. I wish they would've saved Dumbledore's escape because that would've been an awesome suprise to see.

MasterOfDeath

December 4th, 2007, 9:46 am

yoshi2542

December 4th, 2007, 9:55 am

Isn't it sad and telling that they could throw a death scene at us and we don't even know it's a death scene? Shows how terrible they made that scene in the movie.

I actually liked the idea of the scene in the film. That the AK makes Sirius start dying, rather than killing him instantly, the execution was sloppy though. The pale, dead-eyed Sirius could have been much more powerful if we saw him stagger backwards in a wide angle, rather than him simply floating backwards in an obscenely tight close-up.

MasterOfDeath

December 4th, 2007, 10:04 am

I actually liked the idea of the scene in the film. That the AK makes Sirius start dying, rather than killing him instantly, the execution was sloppy though. The pale, dead-eyed Sirius could have been much more powerful if we saw him stagger backwards in a wide angle, rather than him simply floating backwards in an obscenely tight close-up.

Not to mention much more dramatic, cinematic and structured if they kept the Sirius/Bella fight in the film. Now it's like fighting Lucius, BLAST Lucius NICE ONE James, Crazy black frizzy haired witch pops out of nowhere and blasts Sirius. Sirius looks like he's gonna be sick, leans back, Harry looks like he's about let out gas, Sirius falls into a black smoke thing....no sound, Harry crying and raging....and the audience is still trying to figure out what the hell just happened.

Phrozenone

December 4th, 2007, 10:08 am

Not to mention much more dramatic, cinematic and structured if they kept the Sirius/Bella fight in the film. Now it's like fighting Lucius, BLAST Lucius NICE ONE James, Crazy black frizzy haired witch pops out of nowhere and blasts Sirius. Sirius looks like he's gonna be sick, leans back, Harry looks like he's about let out gas, Sirius falls into a black smoke thing....no sound, Harry crying and raging....and the audience is still trying to figure out what the hell just happened.

LOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL

Wow Master you're HILARIOUS early in the morning. Wow that had me laughing hard and you're right. Even I was like 'huh?' I don't know WHY Yates changed the scene around. Not only do they fight but Sirius calls her 'cousin' when they're battling which would've made it stronger imo.

The tight shots...yes they work when we're trying to show Harry's isolation..BUT..in the big climatic battle...PULL BACK! I loved the shot of the entire battle where we saw everyone fighting and Tonks/Bella fighting. That was one of my fav shots on that sequence...heck...every sequence where it was a wide shot in this scene was amazing...he should've used it more. But alas I must save all this for when we get to that scene in about 4 months lol

MasterOfDeath

December 4th, 2007, 10:13 am

LOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL

Wow Master you're HILARIOUS early in the morning. Wow that had me laughing hard and you're right. Even I was like 'huh?' I don't know WHY Yates changed the scene around. Not only do they fight but Sirius calls her 'cousin' when they're battling which would've made it stronger imo.

The tight shots...yes they work when we're trying to show Harry's isolation..BUT..in the big climatic battle...PULL BACK! I loved the shot of the entire battle where we saw everyone fighting and Tonks/Bella fighting. That was one of my fav shots on that sequence...heck...every sequence where it was a wide shot in this scene was amazing...he should've used it more. But alas I must save all this for when we get to that scene in about 4 months lol

Bella and Tonks fight in the film? All I saw in the wide shots were a few indiscreet wizards firing spells all over while smoke morphing phenomena float across the screen as Bella just keeps laughs like a maniac taking any real menace from a war.

Phrozenone

December 4th, 2007, 10:32 am

Bella and Tonks fight in the film? All I saw in the wide shots were a few indiscreet wizards firing spells all over while smoke morphing phenomena float across the screen as Bella just keeps laughs like a maniac taking any real menace from a war.

I dunno..I swore those smoke morphs were Bellatrix and Tonks fighting. I figured Bella was laughing as she fought with her niece but I could be wrong..I haven't seen the movie in months lol

MasterOfDeath

December 4th, 2007, 10:38 am

That scene was so dark for me. Even on an Imax screen. I just never made sense out of it. I'm going to have to freeze frame and slow motion to decipher the action. But as you say, we should wait until we discuss this chapter proper.

Tabris93

December 4th, 2007, 1:54 pm

Ey, we shouldn't be debating the death scene and ending fights already, should we? From reading your posts, I get the feeling I will be doing most of the defense for this movie as well. ;) *sighs a bit* Ah, well, a dirty job, but somebody's gotta do it.

I haven't got too much to say on the teasers and posters, though. See, by the time those are out, I am so eager to see them that my critical sense has flown out the window ages ago.

In retrospect, I do believe they focused too much on the rebellion-thing. But that's the problem (as with all of the HP-movies since PoA) when you try to reduce a great and multilayered book into a streamlined movie with short and hurried scenes.

IenjoyAcidPops

December 4th, 2007, 5:52 pm

Order of the Phoenix happens to be my favorite book of the series

So I'm not the only one here who thinks that? Hooray!!

I haven't got too much to say on the teasers and posters, though. See, by the time those are out, I am so eager to see them that my critical sense has flown out the window ages ago.

I'm the exact same way. I wish I could bring something interesting to this discussion, but frankly I'm not sure what I can say here (seems like a pattern for me in threads featuring MasterofDeath and phrozenone, actually). Basically, though, I thought the film's promtion overall had the right ideas (focusing on the DA as a/the key plotline, Umbridge as the prominent new character, and the building of Voldemort's army) but not as strong an execution as the GoF campaign. I definitely think that film had the stronger trailers, but I prefer the poster designs of Order of the Phoenix: they seemed to me just nicer looking, more memorable, and very fitting representations of the film. Scintillating analysis, I know. Oh, and I agree that the ads of this film revealed a bit too much, but then, that's very common for trailers and commercials. I've tried to think that even if I have an idea of what happens, I don't know how it happens 'til I see the movie, and sometimes the journey is more fun.

From reading your posts, I get the feeling I will be doing most of the defense for this movie as well. *sighs a bit* Ah, well, a dirty job, but somebody's gotta do it.

And I'll be doing it as well. I loved OotP; it's my favorite of the lot. That's not to say I didn't have my problems with it, but I all-around, it pleased me more than any of the others.

DarwinMayflower

December 4th, 2007, 6:05 pm

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1274/893241318_50622f070b.jpg?v=0
This particular poster is what I mean. It makes it seem like the entire movie is an all out battle to end all battles. I can see this being the 'Deathly Hallows' poster but it's still a pretty darn cool poster. Hmmm now that I look at it...WHERE the heck are they?
I definitely think that film had the stronger trailers, but I prefer the poster designs of Order of the Phoenix: they seemed to me just nicer looking, more memorable, and very fitting representations of the film. Scintillating analysis, I know.
With that picture in mind along with the last set of character specific posters, the promotional media just seems so...generic. It kind of follows in line with GoF but takes the next logical step backwards which makes sense...making the promotional media a LOT less interesting and more safe and recognizable as movie media. GoF with Harry standing in the mist...it wasn't the best thing ever but at the same time at least it caught the eye. It was unique in being kind of terrible. This time the posters...well the character specific ones look like trading card portraits and not the good ones, the poor ones made by TOPP or the ones you find in a Happy Meal and the banner that Phrozenone posted, well it just looks terrible. Generic, boring and hardly exciting it truly simplifies far too much.

IenjoyAcidPops

December 4th, 2007, 6:11 pm

Hey, maybe I just have low standards, I don't know, I just don't have a particular revulsion toward the OotP posters. Just my opinion.

MasterOfDeath

December 5th, 2007, 6:56 am

Hey, maybe I just have low standards, maybe I'm just not that bright, I don't know, I just don't have a particular revulsion toward the OotP posters. Just my opinion.

Nor do I. The promotional material for OOTP was decent and to the point. I feel it did it's job. I mean the film was definitely successful on a pure financial level but can we attribute a percentage of that success to the marketing? It is quite difficult to determine with a film like this which is part of a series that is already successful worldwide and has garnered a group of loyal devoted fans. I suppose the marketing department already have their job cut out for them. Maybe that's why they don't really try too hard with the posters. People are going to see a movie that is part of a series based on whether they enjoyed the last film or at least the original. I don't care what Wimsey may say about this but I feel very few people go see a sequel if they've never seen the original. The reception of a sequel is based primarily on word of mouth and its predecessors.

Which brings us to the marketing of 'Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix' and the critical and in-depth analysis of it's promotional material. Here you have a movie based on a book which has a divided fan base. Some liked OOTP, others lauded it while some including myself loved it. It was the longest of the series (and still is), the most dense, the most complex and so much different from the first four books. Darker, mature, edgier, intense. So much new was introduced: new worlds, new locations, new characters, new parts of the castle, new plots, new conflicts, new creatures. As Harry is growing up and seeing things he's never seen before (ala Thestrals) so did we. The Hogwarts and the world of witches and wizards we were so certain we knew so well was turned on it's head and we discovered the truth of the entire story of a prophecy made before Harry's birth. In many ways GOF was the turning point of the series in terms of plot, but OOTP was the true turning point in terms of themes, characters and feeling. The book was released in June 2003. Four years later, the film is about to be released. What do you highlight in the marketing to allure people to buy a ticket? Do you cater to fans of the books? Fans of the movies? General audience? To truly be able to analyze the marketing, we must first put ourselves in the place of the department in charge of it.

http://img.coxnewsweb.com/C/01/86/01/image_4901861.jpg

It seems that for the teaser poster, they decided to play off of the last film GOF, and it's star ending scene with the return of Voldemort. Thus we can assume they were aiming towards drawing people who have seen the last film with that poster of Voldemort with his wand lit ominously in the dark and reaching out towards the viewer almost beckoning them; perhaps mirroring the marketing team attempting to lure the viewer in to go and see the film. "You will lose everything" or "You will lose your ten bucks". Interesting use of dialog. I don't think it's in the novel, so the script must have been finished. What angle were they attempting to frame the poster with this line? Did they want people to feel fear? Foreboding? Excitement? Tragedy? You will lose everything. It sure cements the fact that this is going to be a darker film with loss and tragedy which ties nicely from the ending of GOF where a father laments over the loss of his teenage son, and the fact that everything is really about to change. Sums up OOTP pretty well for Harry loses much in OOTP. His innocence, his only remaining family and his hope of a normal future for at the end he understands he must be either become a victim or a murderer. "You will lose everything." The possession scene was probably the only good part of the ending of this movie and most definitely the highlight of the entire picture. You know what? In hindsight, the teaser poster was perfect. Simple but subtle and pretty catchy. The only downside as with most of the promotion of this film was it's building up of Voldemort. Many people including my family expected to see more of Voldemort in this film and my mother kept thinking throughout the film that Voldemort was going to come. When the sky darkens on the playground in the begining, when Harry hears someone downstairs in Privet Drive and his door opens, The Room of Requirement being invaded, the thumping sounds when the kids are taking their O.W.LS (she was hoping for Voldemort to come and perhaps attack Umbridge proving that he is back) but alas she was disappointed again and again.

Overall though the poster essentially says: Voldemort is back, times are changing, a war is brewing and no one is safe. It sums up the theme of the film with Harry attempting to isolate himself so he won't have everything to lose, but ultimately realizes that though he might have much to lose he has something worth fighting for. This spells out Harry's journey in this film and the main theme of the film. How fitting that this line is at the very end of the picture. Poetic in a way. I like it.

IenjoyAcidPops

December 5th, 2007, 7:08 am

MasterOfDeath

December 5th, 2007, 7:38 am

Yikes MasterofDeath, sometimes your posts are so good, they're intimidating! :clap:

I just want to note two little things: 1) I disagree with you that the possession was the only good thing about the film's ending, but we'll cross that bridge when we come to it :) and 2) I agree completely that I think most people seeing the movies by this point have seen the previous films. I'm so glad to hear (well, read) you say that.

Oh I certainly don't mean to intimidate at all. That's not my intent. Everything I post goes without saying as just my opinion. This is not a contest to see who has the better post (because if it was, we'd all lose out to Darwin!):p

What was everyone's thoughts when they first saw this poster? Do you remember? I don't see many movies at the cinema so I don't think I ever saw it hanging in the theater but I do remember seeing it somewhere online and just thinking it was from Goblet of fire. I wasn't too much of a HP fan then though. I overlooked it.

I do love the colors of this poster. The use of the white and the blue in a sea of black gives me the feel of a dream (or nightmare I guess) it has an unreal qualitiy (though not to confuse him with Freddy Kruger) Finness does have a real snake-like image in this picture. This I suppose is the first in a series of character-themed posters for OOTP keeping in sync with the character-driven nature of this film.

In an eerie and creepy but cool way, this poster kind of mirrors the US cover of the OOTP novel except that it's with Harry. But both look threatening, brooding and dark. In-fact the book cover and this poster could go together, almost as if Harry is looking over his shoulder at the Voldemort in this picture. The way they are positioned is very similar as is the liberal use of blue tint and the way Voldemort is pointing his wand. I'm not sure if it was deliberate but it is really awesome.

http://img.coxnewsweb.com/C/01/86/01/image_4901861.jpg http://papercuts.tscpl.org/order%20of%20the%20phoenix.jpg

This poster was definitely made for people who have seen GOF. I mean think about it, if you you've never heard of HP before and you saw this poster, it would just be a picture of a strange pasty bald snake guy holding a wand. They wouldn't understand. In some ways, it reminds me of a Star Wars poster. It has the aura of the overbearing larger than life dominating presence of the 'big bad villain' Darth Vader type. Perhaps establishing the blockbuster good against evil nature of the rest of the Harry Potter series as I stated in my thread: 'Harry Potter- The next big trilogy?' Where showcasing the villain would be appropriate. Though it's much more quiet, subtle and suggestive. In an odd way, it does feel like OOTP due to it's allusion to the cover of the novel. It is epic though almost internal keeping true to the fact that Voldemort is getting into Harry's mind in this film and is as much an internal threat as an external threat thus the pure black background not to mention part of his face is in darkness. He's not anywhere but at the same time he is 'everywhere' and taunting you. If you closely anaylize the poster you will see the outlines of Voldemort are vaporish, smoky akin to a phantom, or a ghost. Very fitting. The enemy could either be reaching out to you with his spidery fingers or he could be within you reaching out for your very soul.

You will Lose Everything

ArryGrotter

December 5th, 2007, 7:50 am

MasterOfDeath

December 5th, 2007, 8:01 am

I really thought that poster was :shrug:meh when I first saw it. All it was was Voldemort, nothing exiciting...

"You will lose everything" seemed a bit, erm, corny when I read it and saw it in the trailer, but in the movie it deserves its place.

Well it certainly doesn't offer much as far as spoilers for the film or tidbits for fans eagerly awaiting the film, and that line I suppose depends upon your degree of tolerance for sentimentalities and melodrama, and your perception of what is corny or cheesy.

Looking back on it, it really was fitting for this film and tells the entire story and theme and what they were trying to do with this film in one image. If it helped to lure people to buy a ticket, I'm not sure. Remember it was only a teaser. There is a tendency to expect too much from teasers. It's function is to serve just that effect: A teaser. It's meant to tease you. How would you make a teaser poster for OOTP? I feel if there was anything more to the poster it would have spoiled the mystery and subtly of this poster.

For reference and comparison, let me find some teaser posters of other blockbuster franchise sequel films

http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en/thumb/6/62/200px-Star_wars_episode_one_the_phantom_menace_ver1.jpg

http://us.movies1.yimg.com/movies.yahoo.com/images/hv/photo/movie_pix/new_line_cinema/the_lord_of_the_rings__the_return_of_the_king/viggo_mortensen/rotkteaser_poster.jpg

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e48/Obi-Wan678/potc3teaser2.jpg

ArryGrotter

December 5th, 2007, 8:10 am

Remember it was only a teaser.

Yes, I was much happier with the theatrical set of posters, especially the one which the DVD cover was based of:

http://www.harrypottertrio.com/movies/ootp_poster5.jpg

as well as this one:

http://www.harrypotterspage.com/images/photogallery/albums/userpics/normal_ootp_poster_overseas.jpg

but was a little disappointed with the main Rebellion Begins one:

http://www.sarahannf.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2007/04/poster.JPG

The top two captured the rebellion more than the last, IMO

MasterOfDeath

December 5th, 2007, 8:18 am

I personally despise the poster that was the inspiration for the DVD cover. They look so young, so out of place, photo shopped. Harry looks more like Emerson Spartz founder of mugglenet. They don't fit with the background. It's just so bland, uninspired and lazy. Weird out of character expressions. I do like the other poster you posted (first one). Full of color and life. Artsy. I love the colors.

The theatrical poster I feel was very good. Plain, yes but showcases the characters, Dumbledore's Army, shows Harry in the center as the leader but at the same time isolated from his friends. It's just perfect. Dark, character-driven and grim. Just like the film.

ArryGrotter

December 5th, 2007, 8:28 am

For reference and comparison, let me find some teaser posters of other blockbuster franchise sequel films

http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en/thumb/6/62/200px-Star_wars_episode_one_the_phantom_menace_ver1.jpg

http://us.movies1.yimg.com/movies.yahoo.com/images/hv/photo/movie_pix/new_line_cinema/the_lord_of_the_rings__the_return_of_the_king/viggo_mortensen/rotkteaser_poster.jpg

http://www.moviesonline.ca/movie-gallery/albums/userpics/EragonTeaserPoster.jpg

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e48/Obi-Wan678/potc3teaser2.jpg

I just noticed this edit...

Well for Star Wars, I feel it is bland and uninventive, LotR seems quite a good teaser (though I might be biased considering my location), I've never read/seen Eragon, so I'll skip that, and PotC is quite bland too...

But I see where you are going... Teaser posters show basically nothing. They could shove a picture of Hogwarts on a poster and call it a teaser (though that would be horrid). The teaser really serves no purpose (except to tease you to think that they are going to make an amazing poster, but in fact it stinks:lol:)

I personally despise the poster that was the inspiration for the DVD cover. They look so young, so out of place, photo shopped. Harry looks more like Emerson Spartz founder of mugglenet. They don't fit with the background. It's just so bland, uninspired and lazy. Weird out of character expressions. I do like the other poster you posted (first one). Full of color and life. Artsy. I love the colors.

The first one IS the one which inspired the DVD cover, so do you love it or hate it?:hmm:

MasterOfDeath

December 5th, 2007, 8:53 am

I just noticed this edit...

Well for Star Wars, I feel it is bland and uninventive, LotR seems quite a good teaser (though I might be biased considering my location), I've never read/seen Eragon, so I'll skip that, and PotC is quite bland too...

But I see where you are going... Teaser posters show basically nothing. They could shove a picture of Hogwarts on a poster and call it a teaser (though that would be horrid). The teaser really serves no purpose (except to tease you to think that they are going to make an amazing poster, but in fact it stinks:lol:)

The first one IS the one which inspired the DVD cover, so do you love it or hate it?:hmm:

Okay, I don't like the second poster you posted (that's the one I meant). I love the first one. I like the third one.

Phrozenone

December 5th, 2007, 9:41 am

Ok where do I start...um MasterofDeath your posts are amazing...Darwin finally won't be the only one with long detailed post...WHOO HOO!!!!!

The first time I saw the teaser I was actually quite excited. (But in all fairness I'm usually excited about everything) I also agree with you on the fact that the success of the current movie in this franchise usually falls on if audiences like the previous. One thing I noticed about OOTP however is that alot of people fell asleep during it. Will that harm the chances for HBP? Only time will tell....

And you're right teaser posters are supposed to tease.

http://mugglenet.com/gallery/albums/movies/cos/promo/normal_ssposter03.jpghttp://mugglenet.com/gallery/albums/movies/cos/cospromo/posters/normal_cosposter06.jpg
http://mugglenet.com/gallery/albums/movies/poa/normal_charpos_%2806%29.jpghttp://www.mugglenet.com/gallery/albums/movies/gof/promos/normal_gofposterhuge%5B1%5D.jpg
http://img.coxnewsweb.com/C/01/86/01/image_4901861.jpg

Look at all the teasers so far in the Harry Potter franchise. Imo some actually give you a sense of what the story is about. Good comparison about the OOTP Teaser and Book cover Master that was brilliant!

Now I'm wondering if there is a trend between all of the teasers that anyone notices? We have an owl which basically introduces Harry to the wizarding world, Dobby who plays a major role in the 2nd film trying to 'protect' Harry, Sirius who is the 'villian' of the 3rd film, Harry standing as if he's waiting for battle on the 4th, and of course ole Voldemort on the 5th which basically tells us all that he's back. So do you think Dumbledore will be on the teaser for HBP? I personally think so far that the best teaser poster out of all of them is GOF.

In the long run however a teasers purpose is to basically get the fandom excited and realize that that we're even closer to a teaser trailer and promotional images. As MasterofDeath just shown us they're usually not the best of posters but they're good enough to get fans excited.

http://www.mtv.com/shared/promoimages/movies/h/harry_potter_phoenix/first_photos/harry_potter/281x211.jpg

This was the first image that was released from the movie and I remember being both excited and intrigued. The graffiti on the wall really made me excited because I wasn't expecting it. Of course there was a sigh of relief from fans for we now know that the Dementor attack is in (And the endless hair argument began)

Another thing that I found interesting about the beginning of OOTP was the Gary Oldman drama. I thought it was very unprofessional for his manager to come online and tell all of us that he hadn't been called yet. I'm sure they were going to tell him closer to when he was going to film but fans went crazy at the thought that Oldman would be replaced as Sirius (And honestly what reason would they have to not call him back? I swear every film people are worried if anyone would return and I don't know why)

They could shove a picture of Hogwarts on a poster and call it a teaser (though that would be horrid). :

You know what though? I actually think a picture of Hogwarts with the Dark Mark over it would be a good teaser for HBP actually. It'll tell so much with so little I think. It'll be like "Yeah every year it seems Hogwarts isn't safe anymore, but this year it REALLY isn't" :p

MasterOfDeath

December 5th, 2007, 10:44 am

Wow! I don't think I ever saw the teaser poster for PS, that's got to be the best of them all, atleast on a 'getting the book fans excited' level. It's perfect. The OWL is delivering Harry and us a letter inviting us to see your favorite book on the screen; As close as we'll ever get to receiving our own letter to Hogwarts. There's no human characters, or locations. Only the owl swooping down from the heavens and the stars to deliver us a letter that perfectly resembles the one written in the book. It's brilliant and very exciting. Thanks for posting that, Phrozenone.

Hmmmm well I know this thread is currently discussing the OOTP material, I'm just going to onto a little tangent and say a few words about these posters just to give context to our discussion of OOTP.

I agree with you, Phrozenone. The GOF teaser is amazing. I love it. So poetic. The young hero venturing into the unknown ironically wearing a sports uniform unknowingly part of a huge game where the only winner is the dark lord. Since the figure of Harry Potter is so shadowy and mysterious, this could be the Harry Potter we imagine when we read the books. Vague. Interesting. Ambiguous.

The COS one works the best for general audiences, I think. Their eyes are darting through the marquee looking at all the upcoming movies and notice a little elf with a warning sign. Now if they have any interest in fantasy they will immediately be curious about this film even if they hadn't seen the first Harry Potter. It's foreboding, mysterious and creative.

The worst one is the POA teaser. I don't know why but it's just corny to me. It's not very Harry Potterish at all. A bit too muggle jail for me and speaks nothing about the magical nature of the Harry Potter films. Gary Oldman is hamming it up in this picture and just looks kinda funny. Not very threatening. I understand they were probably trying to hype up Sirius as this big bad villain who escaped from jail so the twist at the end will be all the more meaningful but still...I don't know. I just don't think it speaks to what the film is about. This promises a more 'Law and Order' type film albeit a cheesy kiddie one.

Which brings us back to the OOTP. Nick Dudman's favorite since it showcases his brilliant make up job on Voldemort.

The first time I saw the teaser I was actually quite excited. (But in all fairness I'm usually excited about everything) I also agree with you on the fact that the success of the current movie in this franchise usually falls on if audiences like the previous. One thing I noticed about OOTP however is that alot of people fell asleep during it. Will that harm the chances for HBP? Only time will tell....

OOTP was a mess of a film. I blame the pacing and editing. People fell asleep because they were lost, confused and tired of all the images flying across the screen and instead of trying to make sense of it, they fell asleep which was probably a good thing because their dreams were probably better edited than the film. It will be up to Yates on fixing his editing mistakes on HBP, slowing it down a little and making it into a movie not a overblown commercial. I can't believe he's kept Mark Day. This is not the thread to discuss the marketing for HBP though let me just assure you that many people will keep to HBP since OOTP was so successful. It really was. It broke the box office records. I would count on HBP getting a buzz especially since it's all Harry Potter fans have to look forward to now.

ou know what though? I actually think a picture of Hogwarts with the Dark Mark over it would be a good teaser for HBP actually. It'll tell so much with so little I think. It'll be like "Yeah every year it seems Hogwarts isn't safe anymore, but this year it REALLY isn't"

It would be really cool but I'm afraid it will be another false promise. People will go in expecting a more exciting darker film and get 'sex drugs and rock and roll'. The dark mark over Hogwarts doesn't happen till the end of the movie.