The Other Dumbledore

Discussion for The Mystery of Aberforth (http://www.beyondhogwarts.com/harry-potter/articles/the-mystery-of-aberforth.html) by David Haber.

Note: The article has been taken down from MuggleNet because it was not submitted by the author. To view the article on its original site, please visit http://www.beyondhogwarts.com/harry-potter/articles/the-mystery-of-aberforth.html.

Umm Then there was the conversation Aberforth was having with Mundungus Fletcher just prior to the confrontation with Harry over 'Dung's stealing Harry's belongings from Grimauld Place.

I'm looking forward to meeting Aberforth more formally.

OMT

Hehe I love the idea of Aberforth managing a traffic of bezoards with mundungus ahahah

Hehe I love the idea of Aberforth managing a traffic of bezoards with mundungus ahahah
Hahaha me too!!!

Short, and to the point -- a nice piece of editorial speculation. As to the final question, I suspect that even if Voldy had heard the entire prophecy he would have screwed up and made it worse for himself. He's just too arrogant to think it could happen to him...

I want to know how much of the prophecy Aberforth overheard, (or how much Albus told him later). Not too many people know about it so it'll be interesting to see how this will help, (or hinder?- I hope not), Harry.

Short and sweet. Like your editorial; original and plausible. I enjoy the theories about the more obscure characters, like Cody Gaffney's The Long-Lost Horcrux (http://www.mugglenet.com/editorials/editorials/edit-cgaffney01.shtml), a theory on Ollivander and his disappearance.
Glad to see people thinking of some new stuff. :clap:

Umm Then there was the conversation Aberforth was having with Mundungus Fletcher just prior to the confrontation with Harry over 'Dung's stealing Harry's belongings from Grimauld Place.

I'm looking forward to meeting Aberforth more formally.

OMT

Indeed. Which is strange, because we know Mundungus isn't allowed to come in the Hog's Head and "the barman has a very long memory" or something. It is also very likely that Aberforth will play a part in the Hunt for the Locket, since the Locket was likely to be stolen by Mundungus and then sold to Aberforth, which might explain their meeting. But I consider this theorie to be known to everybody who visits these forums.

Also, Jo has - I believe - confirmed that the barman is Aberforth, also saying that she was "very fond of that clue" (about the goats' smell). And something else, Dumbledore says that Snape overheard the FIRST part of the prophecy. Trelawney, however, not able to lie on this subject because she isn't even aware of the importance, said she was feeling odd for a while and that Snape interrupted them afterwards. She didn't go back into trance later. Just wanted to note this, because Aberforth is also involved. There are plenty of editorials offering very good explanations for this discrepancy.

That's all I wanted to say on this subject:)

Loved this editorial as seem to have a soft spot for the other brother. I have long believed he is and undercover agent for Albus and used his fight (which I believe was also cover) with Mundungus as pa. He also could be an animagus - goat? Or his patronus is a goat (remember that's how the Order communicated with each other). Hence the goat smell? Three good reasons for it. However the fact remains he gave info to his brother Albus which is how he knew DE's were in the pub when Tom Riddlemort came calling at Hogwarts. Albus also knew lots of other thing which in all probablility came from Aberforth as who better to overhear info than a barman in a pub full of inebriated DE's etc.

I'm hoping Aberforth will turn out to be an eccentric, grumpy old man who will give us some light relief and laughs (along with Gred and Forge of course). I have said this in the guise of a grumpy old woman.

It seems to me that not much would have really changed if Vodemort had received the entire prophecy, instead of only the first half. If you read it, the part about "marking him as his equal" doesnt necessarily mean "accidently transfering some of his powers into him." "To mark" can mean merely "to recognize or to acknowledge." The part that "he will have powers the Dark Lord knows not" would also just make the Dark Lord strike while this new threat was still a baby, before he learned to use those powers or while these powers were still weak. I dont know that any amount of research would have told him what those powers might be. In fact, if that power is simply love, Im sure Voldemort would never have figured it out. I believe that he would do exactly what he did. Try to elminate the threat as soon as possible.

I like this editorial because everything is well-backed up. It would make sense if Aberforth is Jo's favorite character and the goat clue was her favorite clue. I just have to wonder what role he will play. Even if he heard part of the prophecy, we've heard it too. Maybe he can clarify the whole Snape timing thing. And I guess it's possible Mundungus sold the locket to him, but why would Aberforth want to buy Slytherin's locket?

Good editorial, meeting Aberforth is something I am really hoping happens in book seven!! I just get the feeling he is going to be a very interesting charactor.

Yes I loved this editorial although the information was not that new. I think those goats are the second biggest question in Harry Potter. :)

I loved the editorial, something different than whether or not Snape is evil.

There is something that strikes me every now and again, and it happened again when I read this editorial: Where does this idea come from that Voldemort would have done things differently if he had heard the entire prophecy?

It seems to me that not much would have really changed if Vodemort had received the entire prophecy, instead of only the first half. If you read it, the part about "marking him as his equal" doesn't necessarily mean "accidently transfering some of his powers into him." "To mark" can mean merely "to recognize or to acknowledge." The part that "he will have powers the Dark Lord knows not" would also just make the Dark Lord strike while this new threat was still a baby, before he learned to use those powers or while these powers were still weak. I dont know that any amount of research would have told him what those powers might be. In fact, if that power is simply love, Im sure Voldemort would never have figured it out. I believe that he would do exactly what he did. Try to elminate the threat as soon as possible.

I keep thinking along those same lines. After all, before Voldemort tried to kill Harry it was unheard of - even considered impossible - that anyone could survive a killing curse. I think it is only with hindsight that anyone could say (as Dumbledore does) that attacking Harry was exactly what the prophecy meant with "marking him as his equal".

To be honest, the prophecy issue makes my head hurt almost as much as the parallel timelines at the end of PoA. To paraphrase Dumbledore, prophecies are only relevant if the people concerned act upon them. The trouble is, as soon as someone goes out of their way to prevent the predicted events taking place, they set of a chain of events that seem to inescapably lead to the fulfilment of the prophecy... very Oedipus. Devilish tricky little blighters those prophecies can be.

What if Voldemort had not heard any part of the prophecy? Well, it's quite apparent that the Potters were involved in the fight against Voldemort, so it's no great stretch of the imagination to think that they might have ended up on his hitlist sooner or later, and everything playing out in the same way anyway.

In addition to meeting Albeforth two additional times;buying items from Dung and Albus refering to him to Tom Riddle "no just friendly with the local barman", we also have a very curious time when we do not meet him...

If Albus is poisoned, and Albeforth has bezoars, why does Albus send Harry to find Madam Rosemerta??? Wasn't he in front of his brothers bar?

In addition to meeting Albeforth two additional times;buying items from Dung and Albus refering to him to Tom Riddle "no just friendly with the local barman", we also have a very curious time when we do not meet him...

If Albus is poisoned, and Albeforth has bezoars, why does Albus send Harry to find Madam Rosemerta??? Wasn't he in front of his brothers bar?

Well, I don't think that's relevant, because of two reasons:
1- A bezoar probably wouldn't help against this particular poison. Bezoars help against "most poisons". I don't think such a special one like the green one we've seen is just to be neutralized by a bezoar. I usually read "most poisons" as "regular, normal, not very complicated poisons". If it helped against all poisons, blame the Ministry for not making everyone carry bezoars around all the time - it would save a lot of lives (yes, they're rare, but I think they're re-usable). Anyway, my point is: a bezoar probably wouldn't have helped, it would have made Dumbledore have choked sooner, I guess...
2- I don't believe Aberforth has bezoars or trades in them. When asked (by Emerson, I believe) what the hell Aberforth was doing with those goats, Jo replied something along the lines of "your guess is as good as mine". This suggests that the goats aren't significant, she just used them twice so that we could make the connection between Aberforth and the barman. She told us Mrs. Figg does a roaring trade in Kneazels, she could also have told us that Aberforth would deal in bezoars, because there's probably no plot signifcance.

I'm speculating here. What I'm trying to say is, Jo's reply "your guess is as good as mine", does not really indicate that it's relevant, don't you think?

And indeed! The "No, just friendly with the local barman" quote! I forgot about it:) This indicates that Albus and Aberforth do get along and communicate. Or at least, they did. I've always found it curious that there's not a single mention of the Dumbledores together. Or Albus visiting Aberforth. Or Aberforth walking around in the castle.

It is possible, of course, that Aberforth is undercover for the Order. Would make sense, since even DEs want a place to sleep and to eat, I guess. (And it was a dodgy bar.) I think it's very easy to overhear conversations and to get information from drunk people or people in general. Maybe he's just one of the Order's most important sources of information, as well as "guarding" Hogsmeade (since it's the only wizarding village in the UK, you'd expect Voldemort or Death Eaters to make a move there...)

Anyway, enough speculated for today (rhyming not intentional). Our results are in the post! We'll get them tomorrow:)

At last people are now speculating along with me that Aberforth was undercover for the Order as the barman of the Hogshead and indeed what better place to overhear overconfident and inebriated Deatheaters and the like unintentionally giving out information to the Orders advantage. Who better to hear and divulge this information to
the relevant people but the barman who incidentally just happens to be the brother of the head of the OOTP and the Headmaster of Hogwarts.

A well- written editorial, but I found nothing new in it at all. It has been thought by fans for ages that Aberforth Dumbledore is the barman of the Hog's Head, with all the associations that come with it - and as HP_hedgehog said, Jo has all but confirmed this is the case. (She has never stated directly "The Hog's Head barman is Dumblefore's brother Aberforth" but, from what she has said, it does seem to be the case!)

Thank you for writing it though. Now when anyone makes that assumption in any other theory or editorial, they can simply refer to your editorial as evidence! :)

Ern--- I hope this isn't too critical. But I don't think there was really anything new in this editorial! But I do agree that Aberforth will play a big role in unlocking some of the mysteries of past-DD, specifically the Grindelwald-era DD?!

Dumbledore mentions Alberforth again, near his demise in the HBP. He says that he is "Friendly" with the barman at the Hogs Head.

I always thought the goat charms had to do with bezoars. Glad to see it in print.

Obviously Aberforth is going to be very important to the plot of the last book for two reasons, one based on the book and one a complete crackpot theory. In HBP (paperback) page 245 it states that "The street was not very busy; nobody was lingering to chat...One was very tall and thin; squinting through his rain-washed glasses Harry recognized the barman who worked in the other Hogsmead pub, the Hog's Head. As Harry, Ron, and Hermoine drew closer, the barman drew his cloak...and walked away, leaving the shorter man to fumble with something in his arms. They were barely feet from him when Harry realized who the man was. "Mundungus!"" Based on this alone I'm betting that he's purchased the locket from Mundungus.
After the cover for the deluxe edition was posted different people noticed different things, my first reaction was that the dragon has "man hands", no claws, almost fingers. There is an article, which I couldn't find, that talks about long fingers and hands, Albus was included and I consider that Aberforth would have similar characteristics. Crazy sounding? Yes, but stay with me. Judging by Jo's own descriptions of dragons we assume it to be an Antipodean Opaleye which is not native to England, but if someone was an animagus and took that form then native creature or not she's worked past that. The dragon appears to be old with graying tufts of hair, kind of what we would expect from Aberforth. Many people questioned how the Trio could be riding an animal not known for being tamed, assuming this to dragon to really be Aberforth makes more sense to me than any charms that could be used. But here's the kicker...why does Aberforth smell like goats? A man's (even one who enjoys spending time as a dragon) gotta eat!

Yeah that is a bit of wild speculation but it sounds really cool!
(thats what I love about these treads, I can hear other peoples ideas that probably would never have crossed my mind!)

Hehe Aberforth being a Dragon !! Very cool !! Seems we found our "Care of Magical Creatures" Heroe !! When will we see the list of the 7 registered animagus??

just one question:

why would Albus refer to the 'uncouth barman' rather than saying Aberforth, my brother......u would think thats the perfect time for HP to learn about him.......

I agree. I never quite understood Dumbledore's lack of mentioning Aberforth.

Albus didn't call him the uncouth barman. That was Trelawney.

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