Narcissa Malfoy: Character Analysis

Welcome to the post-DH discussion of Narcissa Malfoy. Previous discussion without spoilers can be found here:Narcissa Malfoy: Character Analysis (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=96580)

1. Is she a Death Eater?
She was at the Quidditch World Cup, but like her husband, was nowhere to be found during the post-game Muggle torture by Death Eaters.
Many apparated to Voldemort in the cemetery following his rebirth, and although Lucius was named, she was not.
She wasn't part of the group of Death Eaters who tried to obtain the prophecy in the Dept. of Mysteries.
She apparently knows of the Dark Lord's plans for her son, enough to seek out Snape.

2. Did Narcissa know of Lucius's intent to use Voldemort's diary to re-open the CoS? Was she part of the plan or did she try to stop him?


3. How does she feel now that her husband has been captured, exposed, and imprisoned as a Death Eater?

4. Why allow her son, who is not of age, to become a Death Eater? Was she proud at first? Was she fearful, once his task was set for him?

5. We know that she has contact with Bellatrix, Draco even took lessons from Bella over the summer, but what relationship, if any, does she have with Andromeda & Tonks?

6. How did Narcissa feel about Sirius Black? Did she know he wasn't a Death Eater? Did she know he was innocently sentenced to Azkaban? How did she react to his death at the hands of her sister?

7. Will 'Cissy' be punished for seeking help from Severus? Will we see her in the final book? What role will she play?

1. Is she a Death Eater? I don't think she is. Only some 'special' people receive the branding, and at least so far, I'd say she isn't part of the inner circle (there weren't enough people in the graveyard for that circle to comprise too many members, and for belonging to them, Narcissa is FAR too passive and reluctant). Maybe she was counted by the other Death Eaters to be connected to them anyway, via Lucius. But nothing else IMO


2. Did Narcissa know of Lucius's intent to use Voldemort's diary to re-open the CoS? Was she part of the plan or did she try to stop him?
I don't believe Lucius would have told her this. The woman we see panicking for her son in HBP and DH wouldn't have dared to risk letting out a basilisk in the very school that her precious is going to at the same time.


3. How does she feel now that her husband has been captured, exposed, and imprisoned as a Death Eater? Desperate, lonely, alienated, and probably very, very angry with Voldemort for bringing her husband into this mess in the first place.


4. Why allow her son, who is not of age, to become a Death Eater? Was she proud at first? Was she fearful, once his task was set for him?
I think when your husband messes up so big time, is in jail, might be tortured or murdered once he's out - I don't think she was in any postion to say 'no'. For their all sake, she had to play along.

5. We know that she has contact with Bellatrix, Draco even took lessons from Bella over the summer, but what relationship, if any, does she have with Andromeda & Tonks? I have no idea. I merely think that their relation isn't half as full of hatred as Bella's and Andromeda's.

6. How did Narcissa feel about Sirius Black? Did she know he wasn't a Death Eater? Did she know he was innocently sentenced to Azkaban? How did she react to his death at the hands of her sister? Actually, I believe they all believed that Sirius was the true traitor before Voldemort revealed the truth. And from her perspective, that wasn't even unlogical - Sirius had 'betrayed' his lot before - by becoming a Gryffindor after centuries of Slytherin affiliation.

7. Will 'Cissy' be punished for seeking help from Severus? Will we see her in the final book? What role will she play? erm... I thought this was post-DH? Can I answer with DH spoilers?

I think that even though she wasn't a Death Eater at first, she eventually did become one with her son, probably because they had no choice in the matter. They had to appease Voldemort in some way for Lucius' mistakes and this was probably what Voldemort wanted.
Another reason I think she was a Death Eater is because I don't think Voldemort would have allowed her to attend the meeting where he took Lucius' wand if she weren't a Death Eater.

I really like Narcissa's reactions to all the bad things that happened to her family throughout DH. It showed that she was a compassionate wife and mother before she was Voldemort's follower. It showed that she really put her family first and that was the most admirable thing she could do. It was no longer about who wins and who loses, but whether her son was safe. And that should come first before anything else.

Did anyone else find it moving that she gave Draco her wand? In The Dark Lord Ascending, we see how reluctant every wizard is to part from his wand, and how Lucius almost declines, even though he is in no position to decline anything anymore.

Both grown-up Malfoys go into the final battle without their wands and give the only one available to their son so he can protect himself a bit better.

2. Did Narcissa know of Lucius's intent to use Voldemort's diary to re-open the CoS? Was she part of the plan or did she try to stop him?

I thought that Lucius didn't know thats what it was, I thought Voldemort had just told him to keep it safe until he instructed Lucius how to use it / who to give it to.

Did anyone else find it moving that she gave Draco her wand? In The Dark Lord Ascending, we see how reluctant every wizard is to part from his wand, and how Lucius almost declines, even though he is in no position to decline anything anymore.

Both grown-up Malfoys go into the final battle without their wands and give the only one available to their son so he can protect himself a bit better.Oh, I missed that! *runs for book*

Did anyone else think that Narcissa (in DH) had become the more dominant member of the Malfoy house? In the first six books, it seemed like Lucius was the acting head of his household, and that Narcissa was more like trophy wife. But in the opening chapter of DH, I thought there was a clear reversal. Lucius seemed very much like a broken man, and Narcissa holding things together.

Lucius Malfoy looked up. His skin appeared yellowish and waxy in the firelight, and his eyes were sunken and shadowed. When he spoke, his voice was hoarse.
'My Lord?'
'Your wand, Lucius. I require your wand.'
'I...'
Malfoy glanced sideways at his wife. She was staring straight ahead, quite as pale as he was, her long blonde hair hanging down her back, but beneath the table her slim fingers closed briefly on his wrist. At her touch, Malfoy put his hand into his robes, withdrew a wand, and passed it along to Voldemort....

And

'What say you, Draco?' asked Voldemort, and though his voice was quiet, it carried clearly though the catcalls and jeers. 'Will you babysit the cubs?'
The hilarity mounted; Draco Malfoy looked in terror at his father, who was staring down into his own lap, then caught his mother's eye. She shook her head almost imperceptibly, then resumed her own deadpan stare at the opposite wall.

I think these are both telling. Lucius seems to be pretty 'out of it' - like he's dissociating or something: when LV asks for your wand - when he asks for anything - hesitating seems like a foolish idea. Also - Draco looks to his father first when LV taunts him - he expects his father to give him cues on how to respond; so I assume that is the norm at their house; but Narcissa is the one who has to give Draco the cues.

He would look at Lucius because this one was the real Death Eater and thus knowing how to react to the 'master'. But Lucius had lost it, and Narcissa stepped in. That's how I always imagined her, not a trophy wife, but simply happy with her lot, her family, her son, her entire life in the magnificent Malfoy Manor (geez, so happy that we got to see that house after all! :)). Only when that peace is disturbed, subsequently shattered, she steps to the front.

But yes, all in all, I did notice it and thought the same, 'Go, Narcissa, go!'

I think that even though she wasn't a Death Eater at first, she eventually did become one with her son, probably because they had no choice in the matter. They had to appease Voldemort in some way for Lucius' mistakes and this was probably what Voldemort wanted.
Another reason I think she was a Death Eater is because I don't think Voldemort would have allowed her to attend the meeting where he took Lucius' wand if she weren't a Death Eater.

I really like Narcissa's reactions to all the bad things that happened to her family throughout DH. It showed that she was a compassionate wife and mother before she was Voldemort's follower. It showed that she really put her family first and that was the most admirable thing she could do. It was no longer about who wins and who loses, but whether her son was safe. And that should come first before anything else.

I agree!

Cissy never seemed to me to be as evil as Bella was. I always though of Cissy as being somewhere in between evil Bella and good Andromeda. She acted the way she did because that was how she was raised to be. She was weak and allowed others to make her see things like muggles and mud bloods one way. She didn't try and have an opinion for herself like Andromeda did because she was content to go with the status quo. In the end though her love for Draco made her finally stand up and do what was right versus what was easy. She could have told LV the truth that Harry was alive but it could have cost her her own child. So she protected Harry in order to save her own child and risked her own life in doing so.

She unlike her sister, Bellatrix, Narsissa had a key characteristic that was unbecoming of a death eater. This I mean, the ability to love. In the end she cared not whether she would be killed for lying about Harry being dead. Her one and only concern was for her son, who she truely loved. This in no way redeems her for her past actions, but to say she's evil does not fit.

1. Is she a Death Eater?

I actually don't think so. I think she is like the Black family, not a death eater, but thinking Voldemort had the right ideas

2. Did Narcissa know of Lucius's intent to use Voldemort's diary to re-open the CoS? Was she part of the plan or did she try to stop him?

I think she knew of his plan, but I'm not sure about trying to stop him.

3. How does she feel now that her husband has been captured, exposed, and imprisoned as a Death Eater?

She obviously feels bad, I'm pretty sure she loves him

4. Why allow her son, who is not of age, to become a Death Eater? Was she proud at first? Was she fearful, once his task was set for him?

I think she was proud at first, a little, but i think Voldie forced Draco to help. She was fearful, because of what happened with Snape and asking for help

5. We know that she has contact with Bellatrix, Draco even took lessons from Bella over the summer, but what relationship, if any, does she have with Andromeda & Tonks?

I don't think she had much of a relationship with them, probably thinks of them the same way as the rest of the family

6. How did Narcissa feel about Sirius Black? Did she know he wasn't a Death Eater? Did she know he was innocently sentenced to Azkaban? How did she react to his death at the hands of her sister?

I dont' think she really care about Sirius Black, I think she knew he wasn't a Death Eater, but she never really cared about him, or maybe even hated him, I don't think she minded his death

7. Will 'Cissy' be punished for seeking help from Severus? Will we see her in the final book? What role will she play?

I thought this was after DH discussion, but this really doesn't need to be answered

1. Is she a Death Eater?

Don't know. We never actually see her torture or kill anyone. She makes threats, but we never actually see her act.

Clearly her status is unusual as we have Voldemort stayign in her home. Since Dobby is gone I'm assuming that she is the one feeding and cleaning up after Voldemort. That does place her in a position of trust (to the extent that Voldemort can trust).

2. Did Narcissa know of Lucius's intent to use Voldemort's diary to re-open the CoS? Was she part of the plan or did she try to stop him?

No clue.

3. How does she feel now that her husband has been captured, exposed, and imprisoned as a Death Eater?

Clearly she treasures her husband and her son. Her actions throughout DH are solely to preserve both Lucius and Draco as unscathed as possible.

4. Why allow her son, who is not of age, to become a Death Eater? Was she proud at first? Was she fearful, once his task was set for him?

I don't know that she had much choice. I think Draco wanted to, to show how big a man he was. His father was in jail when the task was set before him and had failed Volddemort big time. I think she was scared out of her wits when he was given his task. I think part of the reason she sent Draco to Hogwarts was to get him away from Voldemort.

5. We know that she has contact with Bellatrix, Draco even took lessons from Bella over the summer, but what relationship, if any, does she have with Andromeda & Tonks?

She doesn't seem to have any.

6. How did Narcissa feel about Sirius Black? Did she know he wasn't a Death Eater? Did she know he was innocently sentenced to Azkaban? How did she react to his death at the hands of her sister?

I don't think she cared.

7. Will 'Cissy' be punished for seeking help from Severus? Will we see her in the final book? What role will she play?

I'm not sure whether she or her family are being punished in DH or not. Voldemort could have chosen an alterate location as his new headquarters but he chose the Malfoy home. Seems kind of like he wants to rub salt in the wound.

Narcissa is the only other Mom we see in the series (Mrs. Weasley being the first). Narcissa acts throughout DH as a Mother would act - she does whatever she can to protect her child. She lies to Voldemort about Harry to save Draco.

I was very surprised by her reaction when checking if Harry was dead. She lies point blank to Voldemort. It was the first and really only time we get to see where her loyalties really lie.

I don't think she was a death eater at all. When she went to check and see if Harry was dead, she did it in such a gentle manner. Lifting his eylids and sliding her hand beneath his shirt.
She didn't just kick him to see if he'd jump.

Also, she didn't kill Dobby when he was helping the trio escape Malfoy manner. It is telling that Bellatrix had to suggest it. If she were a death eater, loyal in any way wouldn't she have at least attempted to stop Dobby?

In the very beginning of the series, Draco mentions that he wanted to go to Durmstrang but his mother didn't want him to be so far away. But in the wizarding world, is it really that far? I think she was trying to shelter him from a school that was known for the dark arts with a death eater as a headmaster. She put him in Hogwarts, under Albus Muggle lover Dumbledore for a reason.

I was very surprised by her reaction when checking if Harry was dead. She lies point blank to Voldemort. It was the first and really only time we get to see where her loyalties really lie.

I don't think she cared about loyalties at that point, she just cared about getting her son back.

I think the question is if she would have lied if Harry told her Draco was dead? I think maybe. The Malfoys were very disenchanted by Voldy at that point.

I think Lucius sort of ruled the family, and Narcissa never would have fought him to stay away from the Death Eaters. I don't think she was really part of the Death Eaters, but was accepted as Lucius' wife. I do have more respect for Narcissa than I do for Lucius. She basically will do anything to keep Draco safe, and she did help to save Harry's life.

In the very beginning of the series, Draco mentions that he wanted to go to Durmstrang but his mother didn't want him to be so far away. But in the wizarding world, is it really that far? I think she was trying to shelter him from a school that was known for the dark arts with a death eater as a headmaster. She put him in Hogwarts, under Albus Muggle lover Dumbledore for a reason.

Exactly. I often tried to make this point in the sister-thread to this one before DH. They can apparate, travel by Portkey, Floo Powder. Distances are of little importance in the magic world. And her argument 'too far away' always appeared feeble and unbelievable to me right from the start. I, too, thought that Narcissa didn't want her son to learn the Dark Arts before he wasn't old enough - they are dangerous, they can easily hurt a child playing around. I don't think she would have minded him learning the DA altogether, but only when he was of age, or so.

I think Narcissa has only one side not deatheater nor the good one´s her side was her family

I hate to admit it, But Cissy really grew on me, I like her. she saved Harry's life by lying to Voldemort, And THAT was was really brave.

Well in the end she was the only Malfoy to see the light, never saw that one coming.

1. Is she a Death Eater?

IMO, no. Narcissa is just a follower who has access to information other followers don't because she's connected to the Death Eaters of the inner circle.

2. Did Narcissa know of Lucius's intent to use Voldemort's diary to re-open the CoS? Was she part of the plan or did she try to stop him?

I agree with Fleur du mal. I doubt she knew.

3. How does she feel now that her husband has been captured, exposed, and imprisoned as a Death Eater?

What DH revealed was that the Malfoys actually cared...for each other...hardly for others, though:relax:. Lucius was not a tyrant we all pictured him to be, Narcissa was not a poor woman who had to do as she was told and Draco was not tortured and hated by his father. The scene in which Narcissa took Lucius' hand was very touching. Lucius meant to her as much as Draco did, IMO. They weren't evil like Bellatrix, just prejudiced.

4. Why allow her son, who is not of age, to become a Death Eater? Was she proud at first? Was she fearful, once his task was set for him?

I don't think she could do anything about Draco's decision to become a Death Eater. After everything that's happened to Lucius, I doubt she could feel even slightly proud. And she was terrified, she wouldn't have asked for Snape's help otherwise.

5. We know that she has contact with Bellatrix, Draco even took lessons from Bella over the summer, but what relationship, if any, does she have with Andromeda & Tonks?

I don't think she kept in contact with Andromeda. I think she cared about her(she's a faimly-type, after all), but she couldn't get over the fact that Andromeda married a muggleborn.

6. How did Narcissa feel about Sirius Black? Did she know he wasn't a Death Eater? Did she know he was innocently sentenced to Azkaban? How did she react to his death at the hands of her sister?

I don't think she cared about Sirius. They were family, but I don't think they were close to each other.

I don't think she cared about loyalties at that point, she just cared about getting her son back.

I think the question is if she would have lied if Harry told her Draco was dead? I think maybe. The Malfoys were very disenchanted by Voldy at that point.

I agree. I think if Draco was indeed dead, it could have done either way at that point. I think, as you say, she was fed up with Voldemort's antics and saw the events that transpired as chance to vanquish him.

She unlike her sister, Bellatrix, Narsissa had a key characteristic that was unbecoming of a death eater. This I mean, the ability to love. In the end she cared not whether she would be killed for lying about Harry being dead. Her one and only concern was for her son, who she truely loved. This in no way redeems her for her past actions, but to say she's evil does not fit.

Bellatrix was probably the most unhinged character in all seven books not to mention out of all her sisters. I think that back in the day when Voldemort first came to power the Malfoys were more than ready to do Voldemort's bidding. But then they had a son things became complicated. This is there only child and Voldemort could kill them all at any moment. Narcissa may have been a willing follower of Voldemort in the beginning but towards the end she was more concerned with keeping her son alive. I don't think Narcissa was ever DeathEater like her husband. I think she my have supported Voldemort at first but than as time wore on she only pretended to support him as a way to keep her family together and alive. Everything Narcissa did she did it for Draco. Forget Lucius. When you have kids you put your love for them first and your husband is nothing more than the sperm donor.

It was interesting to see how she handled everything. Draco took his cues from his mother. She kept cool and nonchalant. She was good at not betraying her emotions. I think Narcissa was all for the pureblood mania but not when it came to massacreing everyone, causing a giant bloodbath, and having her home turned into Voldermort's own sadistic playboy mansion where muggles were tortured for fun. I think the las straw was when her child's life was being threatened. She was a supporter of Voldemort until her son's life was on the line.

I also don't think Narcissa was some weakling. Like she was too weak to stand up to people or let her opinions known. She comes from a family that seems to have a long line of strong women. Bellatrix was insane but she could hold her own and it took mega cajones for Andromeda to live her life the way she thought was right. No, Draco may have been afraid of his father, he may have revered him but it was his mother he worshipped. His mother did have influence and power. Mind you it was she who saw to it that Draco went to Hogwarts and NOT Durmstrang. She was the one that had to protect her son in whatever way she thought was necessary since her husband couldn't. She was the one that kept her head on straight.

I think that everyone believed that if there was anyone who had a chance in hell of destroying Voldemort once and for all it would be Harry. I think that Narcissa had lost the naivete of her youth and realized that Voldemort's plan was just insane. I think that that Narcissa didn't tell Voldemort the truth was because she wanted Voldemort gone just as much as everyone else and if Harry could find a way then by all means let him.

I don't think Narcissa was evil just prejudiced but Belltrix....now that woman was jut plain EVIL. She is one of those people who deserves to stuffer for all eternity in the innermost circle of hell.

I agree that Narcissa was prejudiced, but was never fanatical about it. I don't think she was ever a Death Eater, or supported Voldemort for his own sake, like Bella.

In the first war, I'd say she supported, or at the very least, didn't object to Lucius becoming a Death Eater because, at the time, it was the winning side. It was probably more of a strategic move for her, to bring their family more power or status. I expect she wasn't too happy Lucius was putting himself in so much danger, though. Plus it was in support of all that she was raised to believe in.

But the second time around, her family had already turned their backs on Voldemort. They weren't expecting him to come back, when he fell they were scrambling to get back into the ministry's good graces. And Voldemort is definitely not the most forgiving of masters.

I think the most important thing for Narcissa was the preservation of her family. She was doing everything in her power to get them all out of that mess alive.

about Narcissa knowing or not knowing that Sirius wasn't the traitor of the Potters...

Severus Snape does NOT know it before the end of PoA. He knew, and told DD, that someone close to the Potters was a traitor, but not who it was exactly. Sirius was the one known to going and take the position of Secret Keeper. The rest was a logical deduction on ANYONE's part, in my opinion.

The way Draco taunts Harry at the beginning of PoA shows (to me) that he is truly persuaded that it was Sirius who was responsible for the death of Harry's parents, and Draco is usually well informed by his parents (at the beginning of OotP, he is aware that Sirius is a dog Animagus, too). I think the Malfoys were always on the same level of information as Severus, more or less - apparently, the main Order source of infos on LV for some time indeed was Severus talking to Malfoy sr and passing on the material.

So - no, Narcissa didn't know that Sirius had been in prison being innocent. But note - if she had truly been anykind of devoted to Voldemort, she SHOULD have regarded him as some kind of hero for serving Voldemort so faithfully, a family member to be proud of. From what we see, she wasn't. Draco doesn't boast - did you know, that's my mum's cousin. Just like he's clearly never been told why on earth auntie Bella was in prison - when Neville attacks him after making a remark about mental asylums, he is genuinely mystified. I'd say Narcissa was embarrassed by all of her family, Andromeda as much as Bella, or she would have talked more about them to her son.

Narcissa managed to do something that I thought impossible in DH, keeping the entire Malfoy family alive. I would've put money down that the Malfoys would be killed.

Narcissa managed to do something that I thought impossible in DH, keeping the entire Malfoy family alive. I would've put money down that the Malfoys would be killed.

Me too! I was so sure that atleast one of the Malfoy's would die. Narcissa was a lot stronger than people gave her credit for. Keeping the entire family alive was no east fete. I find it sort of ironic now looking back on everyything that they are perhaps one of the few if not only family in the book to have completely survived both wizarding wars with their heads still screwed on.

Me too! I was so sure that atleast one of the Malfoy's would die. Narcissa was a lot stronger than people gave her credit for. Keeping the entire family alive was no east fete. I find it sort of ironic now looking back on everyything that they are perhaps one of the few if not only family in the book to have completely survived both wizarding wars with their heads still screwed on.

Yes. And although I had bet my money on Lucius to bite it, I think the 'message' (if you can call it like that) is that people like him - the opportunists - will always come through this way or that.

What you say about Narcissa being a lot stronger than expected - I was so glad that she was shown like this. Bella was strong, Andromeda I believed to be strong long before actually seeing her because of the strength she proved when abandoning her family for the sake of Ted Tonks - I would have found it strange if Narcissa was the 'black sheep' of that family, weak and clueless.

I very much liked to read how she points Lucius what to do underneath the table in 'The Dark Lord Ascending'. It appeared SO the Narcissa that I had in my head. Visibly over the table the 'impassive' and 'deadpan', but underneath the surface she keeps her head and cold blood and prompts her two boys what the heck they're supposed to do.

Narcissa is a strong woman he protected her family and the she was the only one who is not afraid to voldemort and bellatrix

I've always thought that Narcissa was a much better character than she's been shown to be. My thoughts on the nature of marriage in the wizarding world, and the sense I get from the books, is that she married Lucius not from love, but simply because he was the most acceptable pureblood she was offered at the time. Her family didn't seem the type to accept any other sort of marriage, especially as Sirius says the 'old wizarding families' are dying out. It would almost be Narcissa's duty to 'marry well'.

That said, she was the warmest-hearted of the ones we see. I think there's a reason she went to Severus for help with Draco in the end, and a reason he responds well to her. They both have warm hearts on the inside, and must have connected at some point growing up together. Narcissa seems to love everyone she is allowed to, and even to a certain extent those she is not. She focuses her frustrated love on her son, but she does genuinely care that Lucius is locked up, and she is gentle with him, even though I don't get the sense she is his complete romantic partner.

I think it is certainly her influence that Draco expresses himself as even capable of hesitation or good thoughts in the end, and perhaps even the cause of Lucius' softening to go chase after Draco in the end.

narcissa is definitely one of the most interesting characters in the book! she's kind of in the middle of her two sisters, but all three are strong-willed, as you've said. i think she may have been a little sad that andromeda is now estranged from them due to her marriage...as when LV taunted bellatrix about her niece marrying a werewolf and bellatrix said she'd get rid of that part of the family, narcissa didn't join in...and she subtly told draco to stay out of it.

however the self-serving malfoys definitely came out strong when bellatrix was torturing hermione and none of them really helped her. they were just seeing her and ron and harry as a way to get back into the good graces of voldy, i'm not sure loyalty was the first thing on their minds, probably just self-preservation.

I think it was simply that the times were so desperate that they really had to focus on their own family. I think in less trying times Narcissa would not have joined in on any torture of a student.

My thoughts on the nature of marriage in the wizarding world, and the sense I get from the books, is that she married Lucius not from love, but simply because he was the most acceptable pureblood she was offered at the time. Her family didn't seem the type to accept any other sort of marriage, especially as Sirius says the 'old wizarding families' are dying out. It would almost be Narcissa's duty to 'marry well'.
Once again, I'm mystified. As long as I'm a member of this board, we've been discussing if Lucius and Narcissa had an arranged (or otherwise not conceived by love) marriage. I never understood that. After HBP, the debate toned down, because sentences like "before I am reunited with Lucius" and her defense of him when Bellatrix criticised him didn't fit to the 'poor Narcissa forced to marriage that awful man'. And I was rather staunchly convinced that the last remaining doubts about the nature of Narcissa's and Lucius' marriage couldn't but have dissolved in thin air with DH released.

jk mentioned in her web chat that bellatrix married rodolphus (i think) lestrange because it was expected that she marry a pureblood. the same for andromeda and narcissa, i would bet. i think narcissa and lucius had more of an equal footing than bellatrix and rodolphus (who pretty much was nonexistent in the books compared to his wife...i guess he would have to willingly take a backseat to her obssession with LV)...i think there was love there and certainly having draco strengthened the bond. narcissa did take more of an active role in DH, lucius didn't seem to mind it when she signaled him to give LV his wand or for draco to keep quiet.

Once again, I'm mystified. As long as I'm a member of this board, we've been discussing if Lucius and Narcissa had an arranged (or otherwise not conceived by love) marriage. I never understood that. After HBP, the debate toned down, because sentences like "before I am reunited with Lucius" and her defense of him when Bellatrix criticised him didn't fit to the 'poor Narcissa forced to marriage that awful man'. And I was rather staunchly convinced that the last remaining doubts about the nature of Narcissa's and Lucius' marriage couldn't but have dissolved in thin air with DH released.

I don't think that she was /forced/ to marry him, precisely, I think she just grew into knowing that her family would only accept a pureblood. That they would accept any pureblood she chose, but really, she should choose a marriage from one of the 'right' families. I think she chose the man most likely to make marriage okay-one she saw, perhaps, having a little bit of kindness to him. We see that Lucius is kinder than his cronies in many ways, and that he certainly did not really want Voldemort to return, which marks him as slightly less dark than many, at least. I think that she chose her best choice, and grew to love him as much as she could within that framework, but it was not a 'love match' as we would necessarily understand it.

I see where you're coming from, yes, but still. When you look at the real world, you'll see that the majority of marriages takes place between people of equal standing. Rockstars will marry top models, the count of LaLaLand will marry Lady Whatshername, why, even the number of teachers and doctors married to other teachers and doctors is way above the average.

Sure, Narcissa was surely expected to make her pick among a certain class of wizards, but Hogwarts offers plenty of young people from old families. Even Harry, modest-'I'm just Harry'-Harry is a pureblood descendant of one of the Peverell brothers. Why people think she accepted Lucius rather than truly loved him - nah, I still don't see that in the books.

This is the family willing to die for each other. Narcissa jeopardises her own life when acting against Voldemort's orders, turning to Snape. Draco, who we know to be struggling, still wants to rather try and confront Dumbledore (and expecting this one to kill him - because that's what the Death Eaters would do in such a case) than risk his parents' life. Narcissa and Lucius go into the last fight without wands, caring for nothing any more but for the life of their child. Lucius begs Voldemort for Draco's life ('The Elder Wand', p. 515), Narcissa is ready to lie to the greatest Legillimens ever in order to get to her son. And when they communicate, "beneath the table her slim fingers closed briefly on his wrist" (p.14). I found the tenderness of that touch in that gruesome scene very touching. She doesn't elbow him, she doesn't give him a little push. She must have her hand somewhere in the vicinity anyway, it's almost as if they were holding hands underneath the table for comfort and support. That's no union of convenience.

Most of all, I think it is this genuine, true love for each other that got them through the story in the end. JKR has all her major villains killed, defeated or otherwise dealt with, the Malfoys literally stick out, and they haven't done something heroic either. Why does she allow the man who was willing to have the Chamber of Secrets opened, why does she allow this man to survive? I think the message is in a way that love saved him. True love, not the 'we got used to each other in time' kind of love.

Hmmm. I suspect part of our differences here is that I don't really think 'true love' is any more valuable a concept than simply love. Love is love, to me, I don't think that anyone is predestined to love only one person. Some people certainly do, but I don't think it was the case with Narcissa-if only because we see her love for Draco so much more than her love for Lucius. Still, we can see inklings of the love the two bore each other, such as when Lucius went along with Draco going to Hogwarts instead of Durmstrang. I simply don't think theirs was a union of compatibility, if only because Narcissa seems so much more 'good' than Lucius.

:)

because she appears like a person capable of true, genuine feeling and care, I don't think she would have settled for less in her marriage. According to the official Black family tree (http://www.hp-lexicon.org/wizards/blackfamilytree.html) Lucius and Narcissa were probably in the same year. They're very close in age in any case. Draco was born when Narcissa was 25. Now I don't think 25 is an age to become desperate for marrying. If one hasn't found the right partner yet - in Narcissa's case, 'right' would be both a rich pureblood and someone she truly loved - there's still plenty of time to continue searching.

Oh, hmmm, nice on the timeline. And an interesting thought...according to what I'm thinking, that would mean that Narcissa didn't marry Lucius until after Voldemort's disappearance. Perhaps she did indeed grow to love him, but did not want to marry him until after the Death Eater aspect was removed. That would tie in with what I think we see of her character, and also why she goes along with a lot of Lucius' prejudices-he would then have already compromised his previous values greatly in order to win her love.

Or perhaps I'm reaching too far...

according to what I'm thinking, that would mean that Narcissa didn't marry Lucius until after Voldemort's disappearance.
no, Draco is seven or eight weeks older than Harry; Harry was 15 month old when Voldemort disappeared. And even though it is of course possible that they got married after Draco was born, I don't think it's likely :)

I think Narcissa did know about the diary, at least insofar as it containing instructions for opening the Chamber of Secrets. Lucius had to have talked about it at home, or how else would Dobby have known?

I don't believe she knew precisely what the "monster within" actually was, though.

We also can't forget how instrumental she was in passing Kreacher's information to Voldemort in OotP, but like most everyone else, I thought better of her in DH. She really grew on me.

no, Draco is seven or eight weeks older than Harry; Harry was 15 month old when Voldemort disappeared. And even though it is of course possible that they got married after Draco was born, I don't think it's likely :)

Oh, okay. I was going off the 'Narcissa was 25', I was assuming she was in Lucius' year, and Lucius was a fifth year when Snape, Lily, and James were in first. So I was putting her at four years older than the group, and we know that Lily and James were 21 when they died, so that would theoretically have put Narcissa at 25. But I may be overthinking the dates more than JKR.

We are given a date on the Black Family tapestry of 1955 for Narcissa. We can also figure Lucius' birth year. Since according to the dates on James and Lily's graves in DH, their year was 1959-60. Severus was also in that year. According to The Prince's Tale, Lucius was a prefect when Severus was admitted to Slytherin. Therefore, his birth year cannot be earlier than 1953-4. Also, in GoF, Rita Skeeter interviews Lucius, and his age is given as 41. As GoF takes place during 1994-5, this would confirm Lucius' year as 1953-4.

Thank you, dbear. I am now really curious to resolve this! Does anyone remember where the 'Narcissa married at 25' came from? I realize this is a minor point, but I think there's a huge difference in Narcissa's character, depending on when she married Lucius.

Narcissa was 24 or 25 when Draco was born, depending on when in the year is Narcissa's birthday. We know Draco's is June 5. Now, being a proper pureblood, Narcissa would've married Lucius at least nine months earlier, meaning 1979 at the latest.

Hmm...i don't have the info in front of me, but if there's a dates discrepancy, remember JK and math don't mix. At least one or two characters on the Black family tree have dates of birth that don't match up with info from other sources in canon. So that could be the explanation.

I softened up on Narcissa over the course of HBP and DH. I'd already viewed her as the middle in the continuoum between Bella and Andromeda, but she moved more towards Andromeda. And her question of Harry was both heartwarming and heartbreaking. In the end, she knew love and was able to love, and that moved her away from the views of Voldemort and Bella.

Ah, thanks, chparadise, that would explain it! I give up entirely on the math, then, and simply go by when we know Draco was born.

Ah, thanks, chparadise, that would explain it! I give up entirely on the math, then, and simply go by when we know Draco was born.

Here's the HP Lexicon's analysis (a great resource, for figuring out things like this):
http://www.hp-lexicon.org/about/exp-ages.html

Back to Cissy...I originally thought that if Draco had been dead and Harry said so, she would have said Harry was still alive. But now I'm not so sure. Anyone agree?

not sure either! i thought she would have given harry up. but i think the news would have devestated her, and she would not want the person she would believe responsible (namely LV) to win. and she'd want to get to the school as quickly as possible to see for herself. i think she might still have lied.

@purplehawk - about the Chamber of Secrets.

I might be mistaken (though I'm usually right as far as the sheer facts about the Malfoys are concerned :blush: ) - didn't JKR plan, but discard, a chapter for CoS where we see Draco and Theodore Nott together because their fathers are conversing behind closed doors? I always thought this would have been the 'talk' that Dobby picks up on, those two old Death Eater buddies discussing the Chamber.

...and also why she goes along with a lot of Lucius' prejudices-he would then have already compromised his previous values greatly in order to win her love.

Actually, JKR did say that Narcisa shared all of her husbands views on muggle-borns but she was never a Death Eater. She didn't go along with his prejudices, she shared them.

It's very clear that Lucius was less than thrilled when Voldemort returned and I doubt he would want Narcissa to join. I doubt she would either.

Edit: nevermind my mistakes.

Actually, JKR did say that Narcisa shared all of her husbands views on muggle-borns but she was never a Death Eater.

It's very clear that Lucius wasn't at all thrilled when Voldemort returned and he didn't participate in certain DE events (he ignored the calling, the signs and mark), such as the 'torturings of muggle-borns' at the Quidditch World Cup, which made Voldemort question his loyalty. Somehow Lucius got off the hook for that one - he's good at manipulating, like he tried to manipulate Voldemort in DA into allowing him to search for his son. I doubt Lucius would want Narcissa to ever join the Death Eaters.

I'm sorry, I think I'm mistaking you... Lucius did follow the call. He did partake in the muggle-assaulting at the World Cup, at least Voldemort thinks that '... your exploits at the Quidditch World Cup were fun, I dare say... but might not your energies have been better directed towards finding and aiding your master?'

I'm sorry, I think I'm mistaking you... Lucius did follow the call. He did partake in the muggle-assaulting at the World Cup, at least Voldemort thinks that

Hmmm, got slightly confused about who did what and when. Ok, nevermind then, sorry. I did edit the other post.

Hmmm. So she shared his prejudices towards the Muggleborn..but that doesn't mean she necessarily wanted a career of murder and the like for her son-possibly because she saw what happened to all the Death Eaters the first time. She may have wanted Draco to have a happy life, uninterrupted by such matters, and that's why she thought he wouldn't have needed the Dark Arts of Durmstrang.

Hmmm. So she shared his prejudices towards the Muggleborn..but that doesn't mean she necessarily wanted a career of murder and the like for her son-possibly because she saw what happened to all the Death Eaters the first time. She may have wanted Draco to have a happy life, uninterrupted by such matters, and that's why she thought he wouldn't have needed the Dark Arts of Durmstrang.


Yes, that' true. Despite everything, both Narcissa and Lucius loved their son and that was all that mattered for them, in the end.

As for their marriage, Lucius has so many different sides to him and not all of them unpleasant I would think. There are some charming qualities to him (beside the gorgeous looks), which attracts the women, like moths to a flame (I would imagine). Of course, what made the union possible was that they did share the same values and views, same backgrounds as they're both purebloods and born into wealthy families but that doesn't necessarily mean it was arranged and loveless. Perhaps they simply fell in love? It happens to the best and worst of people.

Hmmm. So she shared his prejudices towards the Muggleborn...
I think we're coming back to the idea of indifference. Narcissa detested muggles and muggle-borns - but her dislike didn't go far enough to act on that idea. That's as good as it is bad, most of all, it's so shockingly normal. The utmost majority of people is like this. No matter how much they dislike something, they're not going to do something about it. Most racists don't become killers. Just like most of us merry, good people round here don't act to fight the things we hate either, be it world hunger, oppression or injustice.

but that doesn't mean she necessarily wanted a career of murder and the like for her son-possibly because she saw what happened to all the Death Eaters the first time. She may have wanted Draco to have a happy life, uninterrupted by such matters, and that's why she thought he wouldn't have needed the Dark Arts of Durmstrang
That is a very good idea, I think. Yes, no mother wants to see her son go to war, all the more when she back then had that first-hand perspective of Lucius fighting. How frightened she must have been for his sake.

Hmmm. So she shared his prejudices towards the Muggleborn..but that doesn't mean she necessarily wanted a career of murder and the like for her son-possibly because she saw what happened to all the Death Eaters the first time. She may have wanted Draco to have a happy life, uninterrupted by such matters, and that's why she thought he wouldn't have needed the Dark Arts of Durmstrang.

Slly move, then. I'm pretty sure that sending him to Durmstrang would keep him well out of harm's way.

@purplehawk - about the Chamber of Secrets.

I might be mistaken (though I'm usually right as far as the sheer facts about the Malfoys are concerned :blush: ) - didn't JKR plan, but discard, a chapter for CoS where we see Draco and Theodore Nott together because their fathers are conversing behind closed doors? I always thought this would have been the 'talk' that Dobby picks up on, those two old Death Eater buddies discussing the Chamber.

I did read about her abandoning that chapter, yes. But who's to say Narcissa wasn't "in" on their discussion? During Voldemort's take-over of the Malfoy's manor, she sat there at the table day after day. She was informed enough to know how to manipulate Kreacher and gain information that was passed on to Voldemort.

I did read about her abandoning that chapter, yes. But who's to say Narcissa wasn't "in" on their discussion? During Voldemort's take-over of the Malfoy's manor, she sat there at the table day after day. She was informed enough to know how to manipulate Kreacher and gain information that was passed on to Voldemort.

Oh, with you on the Kreacher thing. I don't know either if she was or was not part of the conversation about the Chamber, we'll never know for sure. It's rather that I simply cannot imagine that she was in the secret - unleashing a basilisk in the school where her son is...? Even if Lucius had told her, 'don't worry, darling, it'll kill mudbloods only' - hey, collateral damages can happen everywhere, all the more with a creature who can kill you by just looking in your eyes - and Narcissa is very protective of her son. I'd think Lucius would have held back at least some information from her

I agree with you, Fleur du Mal. We hear often of pureblood families having difficulty having children, despite their wish to have large families, the older families had nothing like the prolific qualities of, say, the Weasleys. They have only one child, and given Draco's age and the fact they would have been undoubtedly trying meanwhile, they are unlikely to have more. Thus, their only son, the only son they will ever have, with all of their hopes and dreams combined? I cannot believe Narcissa Malfoy would have willingly let even a chance of her baby getting hurt.

Thus, their only son, the only son they will ever have, with all of their hopes and dreams combined? I cannot believe Narcissa Malfoy would have willingly let even a chance of her baby getting hurt.

Yep, that fits to her begging with Snape. 'My son... My only son!', and the earlier 'There is nothing I wouldn't do anymore!'

I agree with you, Fleur du Mal. We hear often of pureblood families having difficulty having children, despite their wish to have large families, the older families had nothing like the prolific qualities of, say, the Weasleys. They have only one child, and given Draco's age and the fact they would have been undoubtedly trying meanwhile, they are unlikely to have more. Thus, their only son, the only son they will ever have, with all of their hopes and dreams combined? I cannot believe Narcissa Malfoy would have willingly let even a chance of her baby getting hurt.

They Weasleys are a an old wizarding family... Though I see your point. And the trent seemed to continue with the Epilogue. Potter 3, Weasley's 2, Malfoy's 1.

Can I throw in one of my favourite pet theories at this point? I think long ago, the Malfoys themselves put a kind of 'curse' on their family, nah, let's rather call that a jinx. That jinx had the effect to produce only one heir, male of course to carry on the family name. They're so rich, and having many kids would mean having to split the family fortune over and over and over again. Many kids also bear a greater peril of unwanted 'polution' like Voldemort so tastefully refers to in 'The Dark Lord Ascending'.

I got the idea a bit after the Black family tree got out. We hear so much about family connections, Ron has an uncle Bilius, an auntie Muriel, there's always Mafalda Hopkirk who didn't make it into GoF as a cousin. We know about the Blacks, we even know about Susan Bones' uncle being killed in VWI... But we never hear of any uncle or aunt of Draco unless they come from Narcissa's side. No cousins, no nothing. It looks like they ran through the centuries like we see in the books, Abraxas->Lucius->Draco->Scorpius.

Like many of you, Narcissa really grew on me in DH. I think it was just mainly that her love for her family was her first priority, even surpassing her own self-preservation, that made me start to really like her. I think she was someone who had many wrong ideas, though was perhaps not wholly a bad person because of it, but when things came down to the wire she had her heart and her head in the right place. Perhaps the only thing those sisters had in common was giving everything they had for the person they loved - in Narcissa's case it was her husband and later (and more fiercely for) her son, for Andromeda it was Ted Tonks, and for Bellatrix I believe it was Voldemort. There was nothing Bella wouldn't have done for him, and I think that the sisters all had that in common - there was nothing they wouldn't have done for the ones they loved.
I was also touched at the tenderness she showed to Harry when feeling to see if he was really dead. I think if it had been Bellatrix we would have seen much rougher behavior. I think that as much trouble as Harry had caused to her family she was still saddened to see him go, and was being gentle to what she probably though was just a dead body. That moment in itself really gives us insight into who she was as a person, in my opinion.

Like many of you, Narcissa really grew on me in DH. I think it was just mainly that her love for her family was her first priority, even surpassing her own self-preservation, that made me start to really like her. I think she was someone who had many wrong ideas, though was perhaps not wholly a bad person because of it, but when things came down to the wire she had her heart and her head in the right place. Perhaps the only thing those sisters had in common was giving everything they had for the person they loved - in Narcissa's case it was her husband and later (and more fiercely for) her son, for Andromeda it was Ted Tonks, and for Bellatrix I believe it was Voldemort. There was nothing Bella wouldn't have done for him, and I think that the sisters all had that in common - there was nothing they wouldn't have done for the ones they loved.
I was also touched at the tenderness she showed to Harry when feeling to see if he was really dead. I think if it had been Bellatrix we would have seen much rougher behavior. I think that as much trouble as Harry had caused to her family she was still saddened to see him go, and was being gentle to what she probably though was just a dead body. That moment in itself really gives us insight into who she was as a person, in my opinion.

Great post mex :)

I do wonder whether Cissy was made to check on Harry in part because she had a son the same age - part of LV's slow torture? It was a stupid decision to have her check, though, she was the only one there who would lie to LV.

Narcissa definitely wouldn't like the whole CoS plot if she'd known about it, and Lucius seems to love his son enough to not put him in harm's way, which makes me wonder if he knew exactly how it worked? I haven't read CoS in a while, but I thought he was really only trying to get rid of it, because of the Ministry Raids?

(sorry if that needs its own thread!)

that's a good question^ ! certainly even if lucius didn't know all the deets of what voldy wanted to do with the diary, he knew about the chamber of secrets. he probably figured that since they were pureblood, draco was not in any danger. he used that to get dd out of office, which would of course weaken any defense the school had on voldy/voldy's plans. no wonder he was so enraged that harry managed to save the day!

It's rather that I simply cannot imagine that she was in the secret - unleashing a basilisk in the school where her son is...?

Do you really think she knew what Slytherin's monster actually was? I got the impression no one really knew, apart from Voldemort. It just seems that if a lot of people knew what it was, we'd have read about it.

Do you really think she knew what Slytherin's monster actually was? I got the impression no one really knew, apart from Voldemort. It just seems that if a lot of people knew what it was, we'd have read about it.

From what I can gather, Lucius (and likely Narcissa) knew that the diary was "cleverly enchanted to open the chamber of secrets". We have no direct canon that, to my knowledge, says that they knew exactly how the CoS would be opened via the diary, or that the diary was a horcrux (it's very unlikely they knew this), or that they knew what the monster within was. I find it very unlikely Voldemort told Lucius that the Chamber held a basilisk - I doubt Lucius would have gotten rid of the diary if that was the case.

Do you really think she knew what Slytherin's monster actually was? I got the impression no one really knew, apart from Voldemort. It just seems that if a lot of people knew what it was, we'd have read about it.

You are right, of course. That it was a basilisk, Lucius might not have known. But the legend of Slytherin's chamber and the monster within was known to many people. (By the way, don't you think Dumbledore for example figured it out that it was a basilisk, too? Hermione figured it out after all, having the same clues like him, but he knew even more, he knew how Myrtle was found dead). I always thought that Lucius must at least have an inkling at some point, too. Yes, there are tons of creatures in the magic world, but not that many killing at sight, or petrifying their victims.

Regardless if he knew that the monster was a basilisk though - the Narcissa that I have in my head wouldn't have put up with any monster in Dracokins' school.

it's possible lucius didn't really let narcissa in on the details of the diary...she might not have taken a major role up until the dark lord returned and lucius was sent to prison.

to add a bit of food to the discussion ;)



The cornerstone of Fromm's humanistic philosophy is his interpretation of the biblical story of Adam and Eve's exile from the Garden of Eden. Drawing on his knowledge of the Talmud, Fromm pointed out that being able to distinguish between good and evil is generally considered to be a virtue, and that biblical scholars generally consider Adam and Eve to have sinned by disobeying God and eating from the Tree of Knowledge. However, departing from traditional religious orthodoxy, Fromm extolled the virtues of humans taking independent action and using reason to establish moral values rather than adhering to authoritarian moral values.

Beyond a simple condemnation of authoritarian value systems, Fromm used the story of Adam and Eve as an allegorical explanation for human biological evolution and existential angst, asserting that when Adam and Eve ate from the Tree of Knowledge, they became aware of themselves as being separate from nature while still being part of it. This is why they felt "naked" and "ashamed": they had evolved into human beings, conscious of themselves, their own mortality, and their powerlessness before the forces of nature and society, and no longer united with the universe as they were in their instinctive, pre-human existence as animals. According to Fromm, the awareness of a disunited human existence is a source of guilt and shame, and the solution to this existential dichotomy is found in the development of one's uniquely human powers of love and reason. However, Fromm so distinguished his concept of love from popular notions of love that his reference to this concept was virtually paradoxical.

Fromm considered love to be an interpersonal creative capacity rather than an emotion, and he distinguished this creative capacity from what he considered to be various forms of narcissistic neuroses and sado-masochistic tendencies that are commonly held out as proof of "true love." Indeed, Fromm viewed the experience of "falling in love" as evidence of one's failure to understand the true nature of love, which he believed always had the common elements of care, responsibility, respect, and knowledge. Drawing from his knowledge of the Torah, Fromm pointed to the story of Jonah, who did not wish to save the residents of Nineveh from the consequences of their sin, as demonstrative of his belief that the qualities of care and responsibility are generally absent from most human relationships. Fromm also asserted that few people in modern society had respect for the autonomy of their fellow human beings, much less the objective knowledge of what other people truly wanted and needed.

Fromm believed that freedom was an aspect of human nature that we either embrace or escape. He observed that embracing our freedom of will was healthy, whereas escaping freedom through the use of escape mechanisms, was the root of psychological conflicts. Three main escape mechanisms that Fromm outlined are automaton conformity, authoritarianism, and destructiveness. Automaton conformity is changing one's ideal self to what is perceived as the preferred type of personality of society, losing one's true self. The use of automaton conformity displaces the burden of choice from the self to society. Authoritarianism is allowing oneself to be controlled by another. This removes the freedom of choice almost entirely by submitting that freedom to someone else. Lastly, destructiveness is any process which attempts to eliminate others or the world as a whole to escape freedom. Fromm said that "the destruction of the world is the last, almost desperate attempt to save myself from being crushed by it" (1941).

[...]

Erich Fromm postulated five basic needs:


Relatedness - relationships with others, care, respect, knowledge;
Transcendence - creativity, develop a loving and interesting life;
Rootedness - feeling of belonging;
Sense of Identity - see ourselves as a unique person and part of a social group.
A frame of orientation- the need to understand the world and our place in it.

Fromm's thesis of the "escape from freedom" is epitomized in the following passage. The "individualized man" referenced by Fromm is man bereft of "primary ties" of belonging (nature, family, etc.), also expressed as "freedom from":

"There is only one possible, productive solution for the relationship of individualized man with the world: his active solidarity with all men and his spontaneous activity, love and work, which unite him again with the world, not by primary ties but as a free and independent individual . . . . However, if the economic, social and political conditions . . . do not offer a basis for the realization of individuality in the sense just mentioned, while at the same time people have lost those ties which gave them security, this lag makes freedom an unbearable burden. It then becomes identical with doubt, with a kind of life which lacks meaning and direction. Powerful tendencies arise to escape from this kind of freedom into submission or some kind of relationship to man and the world which promises relief from uncertainty, even if it deprives the individual of his freedom." (Erich Fromm, Escape from Freedom [N.Y.: Rinehart, 1941], pp. 36-7. The point is repeated on pp. 31, 256-7.)


[bold print by myself]



I know, it's a lot, and here's even more :err:



It is also worth noting that the individual expressions of grandiosity or arrogance vary with the person's value system. A person will generally attempt to display superiority as they define it.


Overreacts to criticism, becoming angry or humiliated
Uses others to reach goals
Exaggerates own importance
Entertains unrealistic fantasies about achievements, power, beauty, intelligence or romance
Has unreasonable expectations of favorable treatment
Seeks constant attention and positive reinforcement from others
Is easily jealous [11]
Has a sense of entitlement
Is interpersonally exploitative
Lacks empathy
Displays arrogant behavior
Displays haughty behavior



and finally... :whistle:



Narcissism can be described as a state of experiencing only the own person, their body, their needs, their feelings, their thoughts, their property, anything belonging to them, perceiving only their own as fully real, whereas everything not connected to them or their personal needs is not a matter of interest, doesn't possess a full reality and is only perceived on an intellectual level, emotionally it lacks significance and colour. [...] A narcissistic personality therefore shows severe defects in their ability to judge and discern, and their capability for objectivity. [...]
When others injure the person's narcissism by indifferent/derogatory treatment, criticism or showing him up because he said something wrong, when they beat him in competition or offend him in numerous other ways, the narcissistic character usually reacts with intense fury or anger, whether they show it or not. [...]
...exaggerated admiration for their parents or own children, and they don't mind showing these feelings because they perceive them absolutely positive, as loyalty [...]
... group-narcissism if not the individual person, but a group is concerned... Occasionally, the consensus of a small group can suffice to create an own 'reality', in extreme cases two persons can be enough already...

[translated from German edition (1974) into English by myself]



So - I know, I know, it is terribly much. I don't quite know what to make of it myself, but it is a fact that JKR only derived from her own naming pattern in Narcissa's case because she had this name in her head right from the beginning. You know anyone who's called Narcissa except the one in the book? Exactly. She must have got that specific name for a reason.

I think the quotes don't relate to Narcissa only, but to the entire Malfoy family. Don't some of the points remind you of Draco? However... I thought that in a way, HBP and DH do illustrate Narcissa's 'journey' in some ways, from the utterly self-centred (and the 'self' in her case is the group-narcissistic kind, thus including her family, IMO) to a somewhat lesser egocentrical being, more capable to interact with others, as her successful 'collaboration' (if you can call it like that) with Harry shows.

Where did Narcissa start? I think we should come back here to a remark that Quirrel made in PS, I think he wasn't the only one hearing that from Voldemort. 'There is no good and evil, there is only power (and those too weak to seek it).' That's a sentence one can subscribe to, and it is rather convenient to believe it, too. If there's no good and evil, but only the ever-lasting struggle for power, you either go for that power, or you perish - it justifies everything you do as long as you do it for yourself.

We hear from JKR that Narcissa, though never a Death Eater herself, sympathised with Lucius' ideas, and Lucius is the epitome of a power-hungry opportunist, and incidentally also one who's rather good in achieving it - until Voldemort's comeback, that is. So we can say, there was a time when Voldemort had her loyalties. But that runs out in the moment when he starts acting against her family (I don't mean Draco's assignment, but the moment at the latest when Lucius was punished for losing the diary).

When she goes to Snape - what must have been going on in her mind? She cares for mothing and nobody there, as she says herself, only for Draco. She draws Snape into a situation where he shouldn't be - Voldemort would consider his behaviour as treachery, too, if he knew it, and if Dumbledore wasn't dying anyway... But this isn't the mment to discuss Snape, all that is significant is that she means to instrumentalise him in order to save her son (and boy, she's got my full sympathy there).
And why should she care for Snape, or Bella, or Voldemort in the first place? They all disqualified themselves in her point of view - V. because he sends her child on that impossible mission, B. because she supports V. in that idea, and S. - he's V.'s 'most trusted follower', too. These people are breaking into her world and try to take away her greatest treasure, her child. They've cost her a husband already. And Narcissa in a way seperates from them; by cursing Bella, by 'betraying' Voldemort, by using Snape for her own plan.

When Narcissa finally 'meets' Harry - what is she presented with? Yes, that kid has humiliated her son, has cursed him, has even accidentally got him killed, almost. But what she knows about him, too, is how he saves people thoroughly unconnected to himself (Griphook), spares them (Stan Shunpike), and how he is REALLY good in standing up to/escaping from Voldemort. Voldemort is the opponent Narcissa can never overcome herself, but Harry at least has a theoretical chance (and seeing him survive Avada Kedavra again might have dispelled the last doubts on the subject). With Voldemort in power, Narcissa and her loved ones don't have a chance to survive on the long run, and she knows it. So if there is anything she can do to prevent that, she's bound to act on that impulse, even if that means helping someone she's considered as her personal enemy for a long time, in the 'the enemy(Harry) of my enemy(Voldemort) is my friend' kind of sense.


Pooo *wipes forehead* I know, that was long. Sorry. I'd just be interested what others think about this.

it's possible lucius didn't really let narcissa in on the details of the diary...she might not have taken a major role up until the dark lord returned and lucius was sent to prison.

I agree. I don't think that Narcissa would let Draco go back to Hogwarts if she knew what Lucius was up to.

I agree. I don't think that Narcissa would let Draco go back to Hogwarts if she knew what Lucius was up to.

I agree, too. He would have been pulled off the train at Hogwarts station kicking and screaming while Cissy rambled on about "Durmstrang, here we come".

I agree, too. He would have been pulled off the train at Hogwarts station kicking and screaming while Cissy rambled on about "Durmstrang, here we come".

:rotfl:

to add a bit of food to the discussion ;)



I know, it's a lot, and here's even more :err:



and finally... :whistle:




So - I know, I know, it is terribly much. I don't quite know what to make of it myself, but it is a fact that JKR only derived from her own naming pattern in Narcissa's case because she had this name in her head right from the beginning. You know anyone who's called Narcissa except the one in the book? Exactly. She must have got that specific name for a reason.

I think the quotes don't relate to Narcissa only, but to the entire Malfoy family. Don't some of the points remind you of Draco? However... I thought that in a way, HBP and DH do illustrate Narcissa's 'journey' in some ways, from the utterly self-centred (and the 'self' in her case is the group-narcissistic kind, thus including her family, IMO) to a somewhat lesser egocentrical being, more capable to interact with others, as her successful 'collaboration' (if you can call it like that) with Harry shows.

Where did Narcissa start? I think we should come back here to a remark that Quirrel made in PS, I think he wasn't the only one hearing that from Voldemort. 'There is no good and evil, there is only power (and those too weak to seek it).' That's a sentence one can subscribe to, and it is rather convenient to believe it, too. If there's no good and evil, but only the ever-lasting struggle for power, you either go for that power, or you perish - it justifies everything you do as long as you do it for yourself.

We hear from JKR that Narcissa, though never a Death Eater herself, sympathised with Lucius' ideas, and Lucius is the epitome of a power-hungry opportunist, and incidentally also one who's rather good in achieving it - until Voldemort's comeback, that is. So we can say, there was a time when Voldemort had her loyalties. But that runs out in the moment when he starts acting against her family (I don't mean Draco's assignment, but the moment at the latest when Lucius was punished for losing the diary).

When she goes to Snape - what must have been going on in her mind? She cares for mothing and nobody there, as she says herself, only for Draco. She draws Snape into a situation where he shouldn't be - Voldemort would consider his behaviour as treachery, too, if he knew it, and if Dumbledore wasn't dying anyway... But this isn't the mment to discuss Snape, all that is significant is that she means to instrumentalise him in order to save her son (and boy, she's got my full sympathy there).
And why should she care for Snape, or Bella, or Voldemort in the first place? They all disqualified themselves in her point of view - V. because he sends her child on that impossible mission, B. because she supports V. in that idea, and S. - he's V.'s 'most trusted follower', too. These people are breaking into her world and try to take away her greatest treasure, her child. They've cost her a husband already. And Narcissa in a way seperates from them; by cursing Bella, by 'betraying' Voldemort, by using Snape for her own plan.

When Narcissa finally 'meets' Harry - what is she presented with? Yes, that kid has humiliated her son, has cursed him, has even accidentally got him killed, almost. But what she knows about him, too, is how he saves people thoroughly unconnected to himself (Griphook), spares them (Stan Shunpike), and how he is REALLY good in standing up to/escaping from Voldemort. Voldemort is the opponent Narcissa can never overcome herself, but Harry at least has a theoretical chance (and seeing him survive Avada Kedavra again might have dispelled the last doubts on the subject). With Voldemort in power, Narcissa and her loved ones don't have a chance to survive on the long run, and she knows it. So if there is anything she can do to prevent that, she's bound to act on that impulse, even if that means helping someone she's considered as her personal enemy for a long time, in the 'the enemy(Harry) of my enemy(Voldemort) is my friend' kind of sense.


Pooo *wipes forehead* I know, that was long. Sorry. I'd just be interested what others think about this.

:err:

:err:

first I'm ignored... then laughed at... :upset: After all the effort of typing this :no:

Can't we just see her a mother who puts her son in front of her ideals. As she supports her cause I have no reason to believe that she does not care about Bellatrix and as she loves her son so much, who'se favorite teacher is Snape, whom I'm sure she know personally through Lucius as well, I'm sure she cares for Snape.

If she does see B. as you say, why let her follow her?

first I'm ignored... then laughed at... :upset: After all the effort of typing this :no:

I missed a good day on CoS, didn't I? :rolleyes:

Forgot when first posting: :huggles:

That post does have a lot of good thoughts. The entire Malfoy family has "unusual" names - there does have to be something to this. What does "Narcissa" mean again?

Cissy did move from tacitly supporting Voldemort to opposing him (or lying to him, which is a very, very dangerous thing to do). And she did it all out of love for her child. And, I certainly understand that instinct. At that moment, she didn't care whether Voldy AK'd her for lying - she only cared about getting out of the forest ASAP to check on Draco.

She always loved Draco, and her ability to love was what redeemed the Malfoys (well, that and Draco's inability to truly hate).

Can't we just see her a mother who puts her son in front of her ideals. As she supports her cause I have no reason to believe that she does not care about Bellatrix and as she loves her son so much, who'se favorite teacher is Snape, whom I'm sure she know personally through Lucius as well, I'm sure she cares for Snape.

If she does see B. as you say, why let her follow her?


Oh, I think she does care to a certain extent about Bella, because Narcissa is a family person. But if she's forced to choose between her core family (D, L), and the rest, she'll go for the first option.

Note that she doesn't join in Bella's vicious recant of Andromeda either, though it would be an opportune moment to rant. If forced, she'd act against Andromeda, but as long as she doesn't has to, she won't.

I missed a good day on CoS, didn't I?
and we missed you, CHP :)

That post does have a lot of good thoughts.
THANK YOU!!!

She always loved Draco, and her ability to love was what redeemed the Malfoys (well, that and Draco's inability to truly hate).



Yes, I think that's what got them the 'reprieve' in a way.

You're welcome, and yea...expect a 1 week or so absence from my end soon :(. But, after that, expect a large influx of posts. I'll explain later.

On-topic: I see Cissy as being the middle of a spectrum line between Bella and Andromeda. In the beginning she was more towards Bella; but as her love for Draco conflicted with Voldemort's behavior, she moved more and more towards Andromeda.

i'm not saying she would pick Bella over Draco but you retorically ask why he should care about her. The fact that let's her, Voldemort's most devoted and radical follower, go with her as she betrays the Dark Lord shows that she cares... or at least doesn't realise what Bellatrix has become. The fact that Bella makes no serious attems to spot her proves that she still cares for her as well, she just doesn't see what's wrong with sacrificing your son for Lord Voldemort's cause.

I'm sorry, I read your post three times now, and I'm still not getting it. Can you rephrase that?

I think that in your post (the wall of text one) you painted a pretty bleak picture. Her mission: Save Draco, everyone else are just instruments. I'm trying to prove that she did care about Bella.

ah, now I get it, thanks :)

the loong one, yeah, now we're 'on the same page'. Actually, I was just thinking along, trying to find an interpretation for the fact that JKR said she set her heart on calling Narcissa Narcissa, and not follow the usual naming pattern for the Blacks.

I absolutely agree with you, she did care for Bella to a certain extent (I think I said that somewhere further down on the same page). The loooong post tried to adopt the clinical view of the quoted psychiatrist. I didn't mean to say that Narcissa was 100% molded after that pattern, but that there are certain tendencies in her behaviour (like cursing Bella - 'Your own sister, Cissy? You wouldn't -'.....'There's nothing I wouldn't do anymore!') pointing into that direction.

Narcissa Malfoy may have just had a nice ring too it.

Well, in the original draft that would have Narcissa Spungen or Narcissa Sphinks.

Damn it, we could have drawn so much out of the latter one, couldn't we :lol:



ah, I just unearthed something!!!

“Put those away,” she said coldly to Harry and Ron. “If you attack my son again, I shall ensure that it is the last thing you ever do.”


Harry does attack Draco again. In fact, he nearly kills him. And what does Narcissa do eventually? She covers for him :lol:

Well, she isn't a Death Eater, she and Lucius clearly seem to put family- the screwy pureblood concept of it anyway- first, she only turned against Voldemort when he set up the plan to get DRaco killed..

When Narcissa finally 'meets' Harry - what is she presented with? Yes, that kid has humiliated her son, has cursed him, has even accidentally got him killed, almost. But what she knows about him, too, is how he saves people thoroughly unconnected to himself (Griphook), spares them (Stan Shunpike), and how he is REALLY good in standing up to/escaping from Voldemort. Voldemort is the opponent Narcissa can never overcome herself, but Harry at least has a theoretical chance (and seeing him survive Avada Kedavra again might have dispelled the last doubts on the subject). With Voldemort in power, Narcissa and her loved ones don't have a chance to survive on the long run, and she knows it. So if there is anything she can do to prevent that, she's bound to act on that impulse, even if that means helping someone she's considered as her personal enemy for a long time, in the 'the enemy(Harry) of my enemy(Voldemort) is my friend' kind of sense.This is what changed my mind about Cissy - that unlike her sister Bella, she wanted to protect her family more than anything. Voldemort moved into her house, abused (and wanted to kill) her son, took her husbands wand (leaving him defenseless), and then sort of laughed at her when she just wanted to know if her son was alive.

Cissy knew that life was not going to be good with Voldy in charge - she experienced it first hand - and sort of like Harry, she just seems to want a nice peaceful life with her nice little family.

She may be arrogant - but she's also strong enough not to have become a full on Death Eater - how did she get out of that one? I was surprised to find myself liking Cissy at the end of the book - even after I learned that she gave Draco her wand knowing he was heading into the castle to possibly find Harry - but then goes and, in her mind (I think), saves Harry.

I really wanted Harry to approach the Malfoys while they were sitting there in the Great Hall, and just look at Narcissa and say 'thanks', and pat Draco on the shoulder. Like make peace with them in that moment. I'm glad we saw it in the epilogue, but would have liked to see it in that moment. :)

I was surprised to find myself liking Cissy at the end of the book - even after I learned that she gave Draco her wand knowing he was heading into the castle to possibly find Harry - but then goes and, in her mind (I think), saves Harry.


I don't think she gave Draco her wand for that reason. She must have given him her wand after the Easter holidays simply to make him capable of going back to Hogwarts - what's he supposed to be doing there without a wand, after all?

True enough. And he could hardly have gone back to school owning up to Harry having wrested his wand from him by force....
I still do wonder, though, what Narcissa might have been like if she hadn't absorbed the Black pureblood prejudices so throughly. She's nowhere near as insane as Bellatrix, but a far cry from Andromeda- sort of a middle line, if a strange one- and I wonder what she'd have done if she'd fallen for a half-blood or Muggle-born wizard, her marriage with Lucius sounds like it was an arranged one (but then that's my inference from what Sirius says, so...)

My first thought through most of reading thru DH was that Narcissa was just trying to preserve her family's skin (which she was); I also thought - looks like a DE, Smells like a DE, etc..has to be a DE by her remaining with them even though her heart wasn't in it. Then, at the end of the book, when she saved Harry's life by lying to Valdemort, I think that act redeemed her.

My first thought through most of reading thru DH was that Narcissa was just trying to preserve her family's skin (which she was); I also thought - looks like a DE, Smells like a DE, etc..has to be a DE by her remaining with them even though her heart wasn't in it. Then, at the end of the book, when she saved Harry's life by lying to Valdemort, I think that act redeemed her.

I think that her reluctance and her going with the DE's just to save her own skin started between OoTP and HBP - basically as soon as Voldy decided to punish Lucius by having Draco try and kill DD.

Narcissa started on the spectrum between Andromeda (blood traiter) and Bella (super fanatic) a bit more towards Bella. But, by the end, she was certainly more towards Andromeda.

ATTENTION PLEASE

I'd like to direct your attention to:

REVISED: Character Bashing/Worship: aka Shades of Gray (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=108021)

Please read it carefully and post accordingly!

And no, you haven't done anything wrong, I'm just making sure everyone reads the revised guidelines. :)

1. Is she a Death Eater?
I don't believe Narcissa ever was a Death Eater, though I do think she supported the Death Eaters and their ideals. She didn't have to be a Death Eater to help or support them.

2. Did Narcissa know of Lucius's intent to use Voldemort's diary to re-open the CoS? Was she part of the plan or did she try to stop him?
I doubt it. That seemed like something Lucius was trying to do for his own benefit. He was trying to get Arthur Weasley discredited by having his daughter be the one to open the CoS. I don't think she knew about it at all, but there's probably no way to know for sure.

3. How does she feel now that her husband has been captured, exposed, and imprisoned as a Death Eater?
Afraid for the rest of her family, no doubt. I'm sure she's not too happy at what happened to her husband and she's likely worried that she and her son may also suffer some punishments.

4. Why allow her son, who is not of age, to become a Death Eater? Was she proud at first? Was she fearful, once his task was set for him?
I'm not sure she had a choice in allowing him to become a Death Eater - if he didn't, Voldemort was threatening their family. Judging from the way she reacted in HBP, if things had been different she would have done everything possible to keep Draco from joining the Death Eaters. She may have supported their ideals, but wasn't willing to go as far as Voldemort was. I'm sure she was extremely fearful once Draco's task was set, which is why she goes to Snape for help.

5. We know that she has contact with Bellatrix, Draco even took lessons from Bella over the summer, but what relationship, if any, does she have with Andromeda & Tonks?
Probably none. She likely didn't want to associate with them, like most of her family, since Tonks was a muggle and Andromeda was a "blood traitor".

6. How did Narcissa feel about Sirius Black? Did she know he wasn't a Death Eater? Did she know he was innocently sentenced to Azkaban? How did she react to his death at the hands of her sister?
She likely disliked him greatly, though probably not as much as Bellatrix hated her cousin. She may have known he was wrongly accused of being a Death Eater, I"m not really sure. I'm sure she was delighted that her sister killed him though.

7. Will 'Cissy' be punished for seeking help from Severus? Will we see her in the final book? What role will she play?
We now know exactly what role she played. Personally I was very happy with her role - she helped Harry a great deal during a crucial time. Even more, she demonstrated the power of love once again and how it always works to Voldemort's detriment.

In the forest, Cissy knew that the only way to rid her family of 'The Dark Lord', once and for all was for Harry to kill him. She knew Harry was 'the chosen one', and after Voldemort living in her home and treating her family like dirt...she wanted to be well rid of him!
Would she choose Draco over Bella.....Draco is her son!

I dont think Narcissa was a DE she was just loyal to her family. But when she realised that her family were in danger she knew she had to do whatever it took to protect them. The gentle way in which she checked to see if Harry was alive proved that she did have a heart and was not all bad.
I dont think she would want the death of a child on her conscience.

No way was Narcissa Malfoy a Death Eater. It says so on Wikipedia.org. It says she shared the same views of muggle-borns as her husband, but never joined the Death Eaters.
As far as her protecting Draco...it makes complete sense. I know because I'm an only child and where I live if there are police anywhere...my mom won't let me go out there AT ALL. Truth be told its quite annoying...but I mean..she's trying to protect her only child. Isn't that was Narcissa is doing?? She's protecting her child...and Draco's the only one she'll have.

No way was Narcissa Malfoy a Death Eater. It says so on Wikipedia.org. It says she shared the same views of muggle-borns as her husband, but never joined the Death Eaters.
As far as her protecting Draco...it makes complete sense. I know because I'm an only child and where I live if there are police anywhere...my mom won't let me go out there AT ALL. Truth be told its quite annoying...but I mean..she's trying to protect her only child. Isn't that was Narcissa is doing?? She's protecting her child...and Draco's the only one she'll have.

Although I agree with you on Narcissa never being a proper Death Eater, I doubt that wikipedia always has the ultimate answer. :) You may want to double check HP information on The Harry Potter Lexicon (http://www.hp-lexicon.org/).

She's protecting her child...and Draco's the only one she'll have.

So you're making the assumption that she's not 'evil' enough to be incapable of loving her son, even though her husband was Voldy's right-hand man before his first downfall?
Assuming you're right, then, she would (and did) choose Draco over Bella. I think she saw the bad in Bella as clearly as she saw Harry had to live to defeat Voldy.

Of course. It showed that she wasn't evil enough in HBP...when she's begging Severus to change Voldemort's mind. She's highly protective of her son.

I don't know exactly what Narcissa's involvement with the Death Eaters was. It could be that she ws heavily involved at first; but by HBP she was clearly less enchanted with Voldemort than I imagined. She seemed to have come to the realization that despite Voldemort's promises to his minions, everyone was expendable. It was grand to see her betray Voldemort in the end, even if her motivation was protection of Draco. She together with Regulus and Lucius were the only real examples of those under Voldemort defying him beneath his nose while not exactly turning to the good side. Good for them.

She together with Regulus and Lucius were the only real examples of those under Voldemort defying him beneath his nose while not exactly turning to the good side.

If you want loyal followers - recruit Hufflepuffs! ;)

1. Is she a Death Eater?
Post DH, I would still say that she was not a DE in that she didn't have the mark, but I think was loyal to first her husband and because he was loyal to Voldemort she had to follow suit. Then when Draco joined once again she was there to see that he was protected, by that time there was no turning back. The Malfoys were in for the long hawl.

2. Did Narcissa know of Lucius's intent to use Voldemort's diary to re-open the CoS? Was she part of the plan or did she try to stop him?
I don't think she did, but I would not rule out the possibility that she did know. I feel like she would have been worried about her son's safety even if Lucius made it clear to her that the basilisk would only target muggleborns, perhaps their argument over this is the very way Dobby found out...


3. How does she feel now that her husband has been captured, exposed, and imprisoned as a Death Eater?
I think she is embarrassed, but I think she made it clear in her conversation with Snape and Bella that she was standing by him.

4. Why allow her son, who is not of age, to become a Death Eater? Was she proud at first? Was she fearful, once his task was set for him?
Narcissa didn't have any control over this. Draco did it on his own. I don't think that she was proud, I think she was worried above all else. Especially, when she knew that Lucius was in prison and Voldy would not be happy with the Malfoy family. I think she was definitely fearful and I think we saw this in Spinners End.

5. We know that she has contact with Bellatrix, Draco even took lessons from Bella over the summer, but what relationship, if any, does she have with Andromeda & Tonks?
I think from DH, we saw that she doesn't have a relationship with them at all :(. I would like to think that after the war the two reconciled.

6. How did Narcissa feel about Sirius Black? Did she know he wasn't a Death Eater? Did she know he was innocently sentenced to Azkaban? How did she react to his death at the hands of her sister?
This is hard since it is kind of all speculation. Depending on how close the families were she may have known that Sirius would never betray his friends in that matter and it really depends if Lucius knew that Peter was really the spy and if he would have told his wife. I kind of feel that Peter's loyalties were kept secret from other DEs, so he would not have found out until the Graveyard and then if he told his wife she would have had to put the pieces together. She still seemed to be in connection with Bella and even allowed her son to stay with her so it seems that she didn't care much that Bella had killed Sirius.

7. Will 'Cissy' be punished for seeking help from Severus? Will we see her in the final book? What role will she play?
I think we saw the whole Malfoy family was punished by having their home be headquarters for the DEs. She had a huge part to play in DH, by being the one to go against Voldemort and save Harry. Even though that was only done out of fear for her son, she did it and I feel like it had to have amounted to some amount of bravery on her part.

If you want loyal followers - recruit Hufflepuffs! ;)


:lol: True...Hufflepuff are the most loyal of the lot

I like these character. first impression seems quite snob but she is stronger. and she cares a lot about her family.

It was grand to see her betray Voldemort in the end, even if her motivation was protection of Draco. She together with Regulus and Lucius were the only real examples of those under Voldemort defying him beneath his nose while not exactly turning to the good side. Good for them.

:agree:

I loved Cissa in DH; she's my favorite dark character in the series. The way she lied, right to the Dark Lord, the way she cared for Draco above all else, the way she stuck with her disgraced husband.... She's such a beautiful and powerful woman; you can really tell, throughout the series, how much the Malfoys love and care for one another.:love:

I wonder about how she dealt with Bella's death; she was fairly close with her sister and I imagine that she was devastated by Bella's death in the battle. I do feel sorry for her, even though I don't feel any remorse for Bella's death.

One of my favorite scenes in HBP is Cissa breaking down in Snape's home; the thought of losing her son is so devastating to her, and she really did go all the way to protect him.

The Power of a Mother's Love is so eloquently displayed in the books, and Cissa is no exception.

-LilyPod

The way she lied, right to the Dark Lord,
She lied to a Death Eater who then told Voldemort Harry was dead.

She lied to a Death Eater who then told Voldemort Harry was dead.

She lied to everyone watching - including Voldemort.

'He is dead!' Narcissa Malfoy called to the watchers.
And now they shouted, now they yelled in triumph and stamped their feet, and through his eyelids Harry saw bursts of red and silver light shoot into the air in celebration.
...
'You see?' screeched Voldemort over the tumult. ...

She lied to a Death Eater who then told Voldemort Harry was dead.

:err: Yeah...that didn't happen. She lied to everyone who was watching as Fleur Du Mal said.

I loved Cissa in DH; she's my favorite dark character in the series. The way she lied, right to the Dark Lord, the way she cared for Draco above all else, the way she stuck with her disgraced husband.... She's such a beautiful and powerful woman; you can really tell, throughout the series, how much the Malfoys love and care for one another.:love:

I wonder about how she dealt with Bella's death; she was fairly close with her sister and I imagine that she was devastated by Bella's death in the battle. I do feel sorry for her, even though I don't feel any remorse for Bella's death.

Yes, I'm quite a Narcissa fan, and I concur with all of this. :)

One of my favorite scenes in HBP is Cissa breaking down in Snape's home; the thought of losing her son is so devastating to her, and she really did go all the way to protect him.

Yes, I liked that scene too.

The Power of a Mother's Love is so eloquently displayed in the books, and Cissa is no exception.

Yes, absolutely. Although, interestingly, Jo Rowling never shows the dark side of maternal love ... unless we see that darker element in Narcissa herself, when she taunts Harry in HBP that Dumbledore won't be around forever to protect him.

But she saved Harry's life in DH, so I forgave her!

Yes, absolutely. Although, interestingly, Jo Rowling never shows the dark side of maternal love ... unless we see that darker element in Narcissa herself, when she taunts Harry in HBP that Dumbledore won't be around forever to protect him.

Actually, I do think we see it - in Petunia.

As for Narcissa's comment in Madam Malkin's - hey, I could understand the woman there full well. Her nerves must be so worn-out. Her husband in jail - she must know enough of Voldemort to understand that jail isn't even that bad, compared to Voldemort's wrath. She must have been there when her husband returned home after Voldemort discovered the diary business and 'his wrath was fearsome to behold' (I believe that's what Dumbledore said). Now her son's got entangled with that whole sordid business, too - and obstinate child, he doesn't even listen to her warnings. In fact, HBP seems to mark quite a rupture between her and her beloved child. And she knows that Draco's heading directly for his own doom. Oh, and her insane sister's moved in with her, too. The woman is at the end of her tether, and along comes Harry, the kid who cursed her child only two weeks ago, making Ernie remark 'I want to see his mummy's face when she finds him' or something like that. I can understand her there, I really can :sigh:

Actually, I do think we see it - in Petunia.

D'oh!! Of course we do. Silly me. :rolleyes:

As for Narcissa's comment in Madam Malkin's - hey, I could understand the woman there full well. Her nerves must be so worn-out. Her husband in jail - she must know enough of Voldemort to understand that jail isn't even that bad, compared to Voldemort's wrath. She must have been there when her husband returned home after Voldemort discovered the diary business and 'his wrath was fearsome to behold' (I believe that's what Dumbledore said). Now her son's got entangled with that whole sordid business, too - and obstinate child, he doesn't even listen to her warnings. In fact, HBP seems to mark quite a rupture between her and her beloved child. And she knows that Draco's heading directly for his own doom. Oh, and her insane sister's moved in with her, too. The woman is at the end of her tether, and along comes Harry, the kid who cursed her child only two weeks ago, making Ernie remark 'I want to see his mummy's face when she finds him' or something like that. I can understand her there, I really can :sigh:

Well, I guess I can too!

It's the snotty attitude towards Hermione that gets my goat, of course. Harry and Ron rise up in Hermione's defence when Draco insults her by calling her a Mudblood, which of course is just fine with Narcissa because of the family's pureblood beliefs. :(

I'm still a Cissa fan, though, especially after DH. I was pretty much rooting for all the Malfoys in DH - their love for each other is their redeeming feature, it's what humanises them, and Jo Rowling sets a very high premium on that kind of family love and loyalty. :)

Well, I guess I can too!

It's the snotty attitude towards Hermione that gets my goat, of course. Harry and Ron rise up in Hermione's defence when Draco insults her by calling her a Mudblood, which of course is just fine with Narcissa because of the family's pureblood beliefs. :(

I'm still a Cissa fan, though, especially after DH. I was pretty much rooting for all the Malfoys in DH - their love for each other is their redeeming feature, it's what humanises them, and Jo Rowling sets a very high premium on that kind of family love and loyalty. :)

The family's belief, yes, but also the fact that Hermione beats darling Draco quite in style; compare Lucius' remark in Borgin and Burke's in CoS. I remember posting a very lengthy post concerning the meaning of the name 'Narcissa' in an old Narcissa thread, so I'm not going to repeat it word for word. But Narcissism is actually about loving only 'your' lot. The Malfoys, and Narcissa in particular, are a textbook example of the so-called 'group Narcissism', I believe. Compare Erich Fromm's work on the matter in 'The Anatomy of Human Destructiveness'.

But Narcissism is actually about loving only 'your' lot. The Malfoys, and Narcissa in particular, are a textbook example of the so-called 'group Narcissism', I believe.

No arguments from me on that one. :)

I find it interesting that Rowling allows us to see a warmer, more human side of Narcissa though.

She doesn't do that too often with her 'dark' characters which I think is a shame.

No arguments from me on that one. :)

I find it interesting that Rowling allows us to see a warmer, more human side of Narcissa though.

She doesn't do that too often with her 'dark' characters which I think is a shame.

I'm quite happy with the way she presents us with her characters, actually. All the important ones are three-dimensional, even if it's just a short line somewhere in passing that's hinting at this. And together with Harry, the reader gets the chance to come from that flat, first-impression picture to something more comprehensive. Take Bella. In GoF, we get the face value - a woman who just tortured two people into insanity and could hardly be more proud of it. In OotP, we see how Azkaban has transformed her, from ruthless to lunatic. But it doesn't stop there. In HBP, we get to see her as a woman, who despite all her cruelty, cares for her sister. The most devoted follower of Voldemort - still she doesn't turn on Narcissa, doesn't betray her sister's betrayal.

I don't like the conventional villain's depiction, as if people who break with the moral code would break with every proper feeling automatically. It's a very naive concept, like in a Grimm's fairy tale. The evil witch is just that - evil. Real human beings aren't like this.

And I loved Narcissa for exactly that. I had bets running prior to DH that she'd commit a betrayal out of concern for her loved ones - concern or revenge (I had also betted that Lucius would be killed by Voldemort, but alas). And I really appreciate it that she did it for exactly that reason. People hardly ever act out of sheer altruism. Where are all the Ghandis, if it were so? Someone who risks their head will only do this for a strong incentive, a very strong one. Only the very young, or the very naive, let themselves be killed for some abstract concept. To motivate the rest, you need a tangible lever. Fear of loss of loved ones is one of the strongest levers you can get. It's how entire countries are instigated to go to war. It's the 'it's either us or them' speeches, the subjective perception of menace for what you hold dear.

I think it was Narcissa's name at first that got me to think of her as the series' landmark of subjectivism. She's indifferent to all the rest. She is no Death Eater - no matter how much she might look down on someone like Hermione, she won't risk her neck for that. The woman clearly wasn't void of all moral either. In OotP, Draco makes a thoughtless remark about lunatics, Neville tries to thump him for it - and Draco is genuinely perplexed. Draco has obviously never been told why Auntie Bella is serving her time in prison. This was the moment for me putting my ideas of the whole Malfoy family into concrete.

Why doesn't Draco know - when daddy keeps him so well-informed on other things. And Draco talks at home about his fellow students. He is bound to have mentioned 'the total loser Longbottom'. But Lucius clearly made no reply of the 'little wonder - his parents were total losers, too'. If the Malfoys were these die-hard Death Eaters, just biting their time until Voldemort finally returned - why had Lucius never gone looking for the master then? Why didn't he tell his son 'your aunt is a heroine! She was willing to go to Azkaban, so devoted she is to our cause!' No, what Bellatrix has done is nothing to brag of, not even in the Malfoys' household.

They're arrogant and prejudiced, without a doubt. In his youth, Lucius was willing to pull out all the stops. But the pivotal term here is 'youth'. I'm sure Draco grew up hearing a lot of rhapsodising about 'the good old times', the Dark Arts, and how everything 'was better, then'. The point is that these things gain glory the more time has passed since. Do you think Narcissa was delighted when her husband left 'on business' for Voldemort back then? With news of Death Eaters like Rosier being killed in battle? The Malfoys, too, had a little boy, around the time when the Potters were killed, and Voldemort disappeared as a consequence. Do you think they cried a single tear for his downfall? No, they surely were no pleasant people. But because they're self-serving, their best instinct must be to get rid of Voldemort, and not the other way round.

I don't like the conventional villain's depiction, as if people who break with the moral code would break with every proper feeling automatically. It's a very naive concept, like in a Grimm's fairy tale. The evil witch is just that - evil. Real human beings aren't like this.

No, absolutely. :) I do feel that Voldemort is two-dimensional, but that's for another thread.

That's a really great post, Fleur, and you've given me all the reasons why I started fangirling the Malfoys so much. :tu:

They had my sympathies from the word go in DH, from that very first chapter, in which they are so obviously being terrorised in their own home. (All those Malfoy Manor scenes are sooooo creepy!)

I may not approve of Narcissa's core beliefs but her strong sense of self-preservation, and her love for her husband and son, do make her oh-so-human ... and she simply rocks as a mum! She's a mama bear you definitely want on your side. :lol:

And hey, the pureblood mama bear even ends up coming through for Harry.

:)

I love the mama bear imagery :lol:

They had my sympathies from the word go in DH, from that very first chapter, in which they are so obviously being terrorised in their own home.

It's a terrible idea, isn't it? I don't even know why I find the idea of Voldemort in their house so extra-creepy - they had Bella living in their basement, after all, but for some unfathomable reason, I found that notion rather comical. I guess I had all these scenes in my head of Bella drooling over Voldemort and Narcissa yawning behind her hand, or rolling her eyes behind Bella's back.

And hey, the pureblood mama bear even ends up coming through for Harry.

What I like best about this is Narcissa's threat from HBP in reverse. 'If you attack my son again, I shall ensure that it is the last thing you ever do.' And what does Harry do? He almost gets Draco killed via Sectumsempra. I can only imagine Narcissa's reaction when receiving that owl. But when it all comes down in the clearing, her vindictiveness towards Voldemort outweighs her anger for Harry by far. She probably wanted her living room back ;)

It's a terrible idea, isn't it? I don't even know why I find the idea of Voldemort in their house so extra-creepy - they had Bella living in their basement, after all, but for some unfathomable reason, I found that notion rather comical. I guess I had all these scenes in my head of Bella drooling over Voldemort and Narcissa yawning behind her hand, or rolling her eyes behind Bella's back.

Bella's passion for Voldemort is truly one of the most whacky things in the series. :D

But, honestly, just imagine Voldy living in your house. How incredibly un-nerving ...

She probably wanted her living room back ;)

:lol:

I've written a fanfic in which Cissa has the drawing room exorcised.

Well...if you look at it this way. Since when is Voldy the ever-polite house guest? Bella is a psychotic psychopath so obviously she will worship him. But..I didn't find the 'Malfoy Manor' scenes very creepy at all. I found it comical the way Bella was acting (stunning the men and all) which I thought proved she was insane.

Well...if you look at it this way. Since when is Voldy the ever-polite house guest? [...] But..I didn't find the 'Malfoy Manor' scenes very creepy at all.

It's no question of politeness. It's unadultered unhinged evil living in the bedroom next to yours. In your own home, you are constantly threatened, you must watch every word you say, you must check the way you look constantly - that 'impassive' stare must be hard to maintain on the long term. And if the man ticks out, he'll tick out - see the tantrum after the Gringotts break - and kill people at random who just happen to stand there. If I imagine to be in such a situation in my own house, with nowhere to go, I'm creeped out as hell :scared:

I was very surprised by her reaction when checking if Harry was dead. She lies point blank to Voldemort. It was the first and really only time we get to see where her loyalties really lie.


Me Too!!!!.....Be that as it may I consider Narcissa an excellent mother just like Molly Weasley. She's all about her family. Their safety and well being. I understand how she felt, but at the same time I don't like the way she treated Harry, Hermione and Ron in Diagon Alley at Madam Malkins shop, but also she's just over protective of her rotten son, Draco.

I also feel that Bellatrix tried too hard to persude her sister to be loyal to LV. As a wife I felt her pain when her husband and son were belittled by LV and disrespected by their peers in their own home. Just outright humiliated. I felt bad for her then.

1. Is she a Death Eater?

Even if she is not a Death Eater, she must have, at some point, accepted and perhaps believed in the Death Eater's views. I would say that yes, alongside her husband she is a Death Eater.

2. Did Narcissa know of Lucius's intent to use Voldemort's diary to re-open the CoS? Was she part of the plan or did she try to stop him?

I don't think she knew about it, and if she had known about it, she would have had enough sense to stop him. If anyone found out that it was Lucius who had given Ginny the diary, there would have been questions asked and I don't think Narcissa would have liked that at all.

4. Why allow her son, who is not of age, to become a Death Eater? Was she proud at first? Was she fearful, once his task was set for him?

I think that she was just allowing him to do what he wanted. She knew that there was no use trying to dissuade Voldemort from using Draco, and I think she saw right through his motives. I think she was very fearful, suspicious and wary.

5. We know that she has contact with Bellatrix, Draco even took lessons from Bella over the summer, but what relationship, if any, does she have with Andromeda & Tonks?

I don't think they have any relationship at all.

Me Too!!!!.....Be that as it may I consider Narcissa an excellent mother just like Molly Weasley. She's all about her family. Their safety and well being. I understand how she felt, but at the same time I don't like the way she treated Harry, Hermione and Ron in Diagon Alley at Madam Malkins shop, but also she's just over protective of her rotten son, Draco.

I also feel that Bellatrix tried too hard to persude her sister to be loyal to LV. As a wife I felt her pain when her husband and son were belittled by LV and disrespected by their peers in their own home. Just outright humiliated. I felt bad for her then.

Yes, Draco was rotten but I believe he was a direct result of his upbringing. Let's face it, I was jumping up and down when Narcissa showed her true colors but I will take to the grave that Lucius was a horrible person. He tried to act as if he was noble only because of blood and money and that he had an undying allegiance to Voldemort. We know that he was terrified of Voldemort and only loyal to him out of fear. To me, Narcissa was 1000 times greater the person than Lucius. Her main concern was her son, although she had made some bad choices by allowing him to act as he did and let him run with the death eaters..did she have much choice? NOT allowing Draco to run with the death eaters would have made them seem cowardly and not interested in a Voldemort take over. What would you have done? She tried to watch the best over her son as possible and did what she could (unbreakable vow, asking harry at the most crucial moment about draco's life)

I agree Witch that she was a great mother. Although I would not put her on the same level as Molly; I cannot see Narcissa screaming (that's my son you ***** and charging into battle) but she's close in my book.

cheers to narcissa.

Ahhh, the best dark character needs some love, in my opinion. ;)

I think Narcissa played a pivotal role in the expression of the main message in the series-- the power of love and the level of heroism to which it can raise someone. Narcissa was not a "loving" person in general relation to the rest of humanity; she was quite prejudiced and willing to support the Dark Side, to the extent that she colluded with Voldemort in OotP, but it was the power of love that ruled her character, in the end, as we saw in HBP & DH; she was willing to put herself in danger of the Dark Lord's mortal wrath, had he discovered that she went to Snape and lied to him, for her beloved son, and therein lies her complexity.

Totally, LilyPod :tu:

Her main concern was her son, although she had made some bad choices by allowing him to act as he did and let him run with the death eaters..did she have much choice? NOT allowing Draco to run with the death eaters would have made them seem cowardly and not interested in a Voldemort take over. What would you have done? She tried to watch the best over her son as possible and did what she could (unbreakable vow, asking harry at the most crucial moment about draco's life)

I think she really didn't have a choice, concerning Draco becoming a Death Eater. From the tiny bit of dialogue we get to hear in Madam Malkin's before they notice the Trio, Narcissa refuses to let her son wander about on his own - now what would she be afraid of? Surely, she needn't fear Death Eater attacks on her son. But nonetheless, she is obviously scared (and Draco, feeling oh-so-grown-up, is annoyed), and the only reason I can see for that is that she doesn't feel comfortable with his Death Eater career and wants to keep an eye on him at all times. Note that Draco tells Borgin 'Not a word to my mother'. He feels he's forced to conceal what he's doing from her, and from that I conclude that they've argued beforehand. I think Narcissa would have prevented Draco from joining the Death Eaters, IF she could have had a say in it. Note another thing - Draco hasn't got much of a clue about the Dark Arts all that time, until Aunt Bella starts training him. Now here's Lucius Malfoy's own son - and still the kid never received any proper training before? I think Narcissa is responsible for that as well. The Dark Arts are dangerous; she tries to keep her baby safe. I never believed that it was the distance that made her refuse Durmstrang - they're witches/wizards, they can apparate and all that. Distance is of little importance to them.

cheers to narcissa.

:clap:

I think she really didn't have a choice, concerning Draco becoming a Death Eater.
I don't think she had a choice either, and I question that Draco even told her before he did it; Can you imagine that she would have supported that? She (And I believe she was related to Rosier, but I'll have to take another glimpse at the Black Family Tree to confirm that) knew the horrors that being a Death Eater would entail, and she would have wanted to shield her son from that, regardless of his father's career; if anyone taught Draco the Dark Arts, it was definitely Lucius, not Narcissa. I think that it was Bellatrix who encouraged Draco to become a Death Eater, because Voldemort wanted him to punish Lucius. Of course, driven by humiliation and anger at his father's imprisonment, and eager to prove himself, Draco took the mark, and once he did so, Narcissa couldn't get him out of the danger of being a Death Eater without ascertaining his death, hence her hysterics in Spinner's End, and her willingness to go behind the Dark Lord's back, which would have earned her an AK, had he found out, to protect Draco.

1. Is she a Death Eater?
Even post-Deathly Hallows, it's kind of hard to say whether she was a Death Eater or not. At Voldemort's resurrection, Lucius was specifically mentioned, however, Narcissa was not. Even if she was home with Draco, I see Voldemort making some referrence to this. When he didn't, I'm not sure if she was a Death Eater or not.

2. Did Narcissa know of Lucius's intent to use Voldemort's diary to re-open the CoS? Was she part of the plan or did she try to stop him?
I think there might have been some things Lucius did behind Narcissa's back. Also, unless it affected Draco personally, I don't see her paying too much attention to it. As long as Draco was safe, and she could live a High Society life, look down on people, I don't think she paid much attention.


3. How does she feel now that her husband has been captured, exposed, and imprisoned as a Death Eater?
Like Draco, I think she felt the Malfoy Family was above the Law. All Lucius had to do was show his Governor's credentials "influence" a few "important" people, and voila, they could talk, bribe or buy their way out of trouble.
When Lucius was thrown in Prison and forced to serve his sentence,like any other Family of a Prisoner, I think she realized they were held accountable for their actions. I also think she was quite angry that he "allowed" this to happen, by slipping up.

4. Why allow her son, who is not of age, to become a Death Eater?
Well, because when Voldemort speaks, you ask "how high?". What he says is the law. If she had tried to negotiate with Voldemort, tried to change his mind, there would be trouble to say the least. She may have been a horrible Woman and a bad example as a Mother, but she clearly loved her Child and would do anything to protect him from harm.
Was she proud at first? Was she fearful, once his task was set for him?
She was probably very fearful from the word go. Up until this point, she probably had very little to do with the Death Eaters and maybe participated in very few raids, etc. Then when Lucius was arrested, he wasn't there to protect his Family, be the Lieutenant he was to Voldemort. So now, it's up to Draco, which was very scary for her. Because it was clear she was one of the lowest people on the Totem Pole. Yes, Voldemort knew who she was, but again, she was just another number. So her opinion, her wishes, her fears were ignored, especially now that Lucius messed up.

5. We know that she has contact with Bellatrix, Draco even took lessons from Bella over the summer, but what relationship, if any, does she have with Andromeda & Tonks?
I think Bellatrix did what Bellatrix wanted and didn't care what Narcissa said. If Narcissa protested, then all the more reason for Bellatrix to do something. Also, by teaching Draco Occlumency, she made Narcissa look average, less powerful.
As for Andromeda, she married a Muggleborn and had a Half-Muggle blood Child. So why would Narcissa even dream of having contact with Andromeda.
6. How did Narcissa feel about Sirius Black?
The usual opinion that he was the "Black Sheep", a blood traitor. She saw herself as above others who aren't of Pureblood ancestry. If you are of Pureblood ancestry and befriend a Half-Blood or a Muggleborn, then you're a Blood Traitor. You're worthless, beneath her.
Did she know he wasn't a Death Eater? Did she know he was innocently sentenced to Azkaban? Yes.
How did she react to his death at the hands of her sister? I think she gave it much thought. It probably became another thing Bellatrix did and it wasn't something to get that worked up over.

7. Will 'Cissy' be punished for seeking help from Severus? Will we see her in the final book? What role will she play?
It's clear from her reaction of reaching for and squeezing Lucius' hand in "Dark Lord Ascended" that she was punished for seeking help from Severus among a list of other deviations. Maybe Voldemort's act of taking the Malfoy Family's Hospitaliy and staying in their house was part of their punishment.

1. Is she a Death Eater? No. She hasn't got a Dark Mark, and was all for L, until she became pregnant with Draco, then had a change of priorities.

2. Did Narcissa know of Lucius's intent to use Voldemort's diary to re-open the CoS? Was she part of the plan or did she try to stop him? I doubt it. I dont think he would have wanted to include her in that, as I think she would have objected.

5. We know that she has contact with Bellatrix, Draco even took lessons from Bella over the summer, but what relationship, if any, does she have with Andromeda & Tonks? No, but I think she would after the Battle of Hogwarts. I think she would have been too scared that she too would have been disowned if she did contact them.

6. Did she know he (Sirius) wasn't a Death Eater? Yes.
Did she know he was innocently sentenced to Azkaban? Probably.
How did she react to his death at the hands of her sister? Technically, Bella didn't kill him (she stuns him in the book, and thats what I'm going by), just stunned him and he fell. Of course, Sirius is the last "Black", but I dont know how well they ever got on, even as children. She would have been sad, it would have been much worse for her if it had been Bella IMO.

1. Is she a Death Eater?
I don't think so. While she supported their ideals, and her home was Voldemorts' headquarters, it seems she never actively participated in Death Eater activities, she doesn't seem to have gone on any missions, e.g. Dept. of Mysteries, graveyard on Voldemorts' return. IMO, Voldemort only branded those who actively served his cause, and played an important role, otherwise, why bother?


2. Did Narcissa know of Lucius's intent to use Voldemort's diary to re-open the CoS? Was she part of the plan or did she try to stop him?

I think Lucius was acting solo on this one, Narcissa would ahve tried to talk him out of it. On the other hand, she may have known he had some involvement, Draco certainly did know his father knew more than he was letting on. However, I doubt she knew the full extent of his plan to open the Chamber of Secrets- firstly, it would put her son in danger- a monster would see hmm, food, not pureblood vs mudblood to her eyes, and secondly, she would have thought of the consequences if the plan was discovered.


[QUOTE]3. How does she feel now that her husband has been captured, exposed, and imprisoned as a Death Eater?

I think it left her feeling very exposed and vulnerable, hence her trip to Spinners' End to seek Sanpes' help.

4. Why allow her son, who is not of age, to become a Death Eater? Was she proud at first? Was she fearful, once his task was set for him?

Proud? No way, I think she was terrified by the very idea of it, I doubt she had any choice in the matter. The way I see it, Voldemort "requested" to meet with Draco, presented him with his task and the duty of filling his fathers' role in the "organisation" and Narcissa was told of this afterwards. She would never have consented to Draco joining, nor would Voldemort have allowed her to refuse. She is horrified by the prospect as we see in Spinners' End.


5. We know that she has contact with Bellatrix, Draco even took lessons from Bella over the summer, but what relationship, if any, does she have with Andromeda & Tonks?

I think we can take for granted that Bella was telling the truth that neither she nor Narcissa had any contact with Andromeda after she married Ted. Post-DH, maybe she would have attempted to approach Andromeda, might have taken a long time though, or she might have felt too uncomfortable to approach her sister, who had lost almost everyone to a cause Narcissa had been a silent participant in.


6. How did Narcissa feel about Sirius Black? Did she know he wasn't a Death Eater? Did she know he was innocently sentenced to Azkaban? How did she react to his death at the hands of her sister?


I think she saw him as a rebel, unworthy of the name Black, but I doubt she had the same venom for him as Bella did. Yes and yes. I think she may have been taken aback, but I doubt she grieved too much as they hadn't seen each toher in years and had never been close.



Totally, LilyPod :tu:
Note another thing - Draco hasn't got much of a clue about the Dark Arts all that time, until Aunt Bella starts training him. Now here's Lucius Malfoy's own son - and still the kid never received any proper training before? I think Narcissa is responsible for that as well. The Dark Arts are dangerous; she tries to keep her baby safe. I never believed that it was the distance that made her refuse Durmstrang - they're witches/wizards, they can apparate and all that. Distance is of little importance to them.

:clap:

That's interesting, Fleur du Mal. Narcissa does seem to be making a concerted effort to keep Draco from the Dark Arts, even though she supports the idea of pure-blood supremacy and is married to a Death Eater. I think, perhaps it may be because she wants to ensure her son avoids the fate that befell Bellatrix as a result of her involvement in the Dark Arts. At least before HBP, then her concern is keeping him alive.

1. Is she a Death Eater?

No, she never was. She just believed deeply with their views...oh how did that change when her Draco was in the hands of Voldemort.

2. Did Narcissa know of Lucius's intent to use Voldemort's diary to re-open the CoS? Was she part of the plan or did she try to stop him?

Nope. Narcissa never knew about it. If she did, then she would have blatantly stopped Lucius from doing it since she didn't want her precious Draco to get killed.


3. How does she feel now that her husband has been captured, exposed, and imprisoned as a Death Eater?

Lonely and ashamed, without a doubt. She must have been feeling very desperate.

4. Why allow her son, who is not of age, to become a Death Eater? Was she proud at first? Was she fearful, once his task was set for him?

Narcissa had no choice. If she had intervened, then Voldemort would have killed her and Draco. The only thing she could do was just play along. This mission completely shattered Narcissa's opinion on Voldemort. She was hysterically terrified for Draco.

5. We know that she has contact with Bellatrix, Draco even took lessons from Bella over the summer, but what relationship, if any, does she have with Andromeda & Tonks?

Near to nothing. But a part of me thinks that she still somehow loved Andromeda...deep down.

6. How did Narcissa feel about Sirius Black? Did she know he wasn't a Death Eater? Did she know he was innocently sentenced to Azkaban? How did she react to his death at the hands of her sister?

She didn't care much for him. I bet she knew from Lucius once Voldemort revealed it to the Death Eaters. For his death, she might have just been surprised for a few seconds, but slowly erasing him and not caring whatsoever.

7. Will 'Cissy' be punished for seeking help from Severus? Will we see her in the final book? What role will she play?

I think it was a cry of desperation that Narcissa had to flee to Snape for help. It was her son and she loved him to death.

I think I may be the only person who has this opinion, but my favorite scene in all of Deathly Hallows was when Narcissa lied to Voldemort in order to search for Draco at the castle. That showed she didn't care for Voldemort whatsoever. The one and only thing that mattered to her was Draco. She got what she wanted. She got Draco. Never underestimate a mother's love in times of danger.

Narcissa really flew up to one of my favorite characters. Yeah, she was THAT awesome in Deathly Hallows. Who would have thought that Voldemort died (if you really think about it) because of Narcissa.

EDIT: I would like to say that I think Narcissa was a pretty good Occlumens. She was able to lie to Voldemort at one hell of a crucial moment. I also think that her departure to Spinner's End was slightly due to the fact that she could probably lie to Voldemort, so that somehow consoled her. I know, it's a weird opinion.

Anyway, I think throughout the the end of OoTP to DH, Narcissa was the strong one in the family and seized them from falling apart. Narcissa also showed real bravery. She's great =)

[B]
EDIT: I would like to say that I think Narcissa was a pretty good Occlumens. She was able to lie to Voldemort at one hell of a crucial moment. I also think that her departure to Spinner's End was slightly due to the fact that she could probably lie to Voldemort, so that somehow consoled her. I know, it's a weird opinion.

Anyway, I think throughout the the end of OoTP to DH, Narcissa was the strong one in the family and seized them from falling apart. Narcissa also showed real bravery. She's great =)

Great point, I had forgotten that he would have likely been reading her mind. I agree she was a strong member of the family; but too I think Draco showed a lot of fortitude where his family was concerned. But Narcissa was extraordinarily brave to lie to Voldemort's face as it were, and if Bella taught Draco Occlucmency, then she was likely better than her sister - but Narcissa likely had a lot of motivation and did the best she ever had at it.

Another note was that Harry took his chances with her not calling out, rather than popping up prone to fight at that moment. I suppose he too knew of the Malfoy family ties which proved to be very strong.

Great point, I had forgotten that he would have likely been reading her mind. I agree she was a strong member of the family; but too I think Draco showed a lot of fortitude where his family was concerned. But Narcissa was extraordinarily brave to lie to Voldemort's face as it were, and if Bella taught Draco Occlucmency, then she was likely better than her sister - but Narcissa likely had a lot of motivation and did the best she ever had at it.

Another note was that Harry took his chances with her not calling out, rather than popping up prone to fight at that moment. I suppose he too knew of the Malfoy family ties which proved to be very strong.

Thanks :)

I think that once Narcissa asked Harry whether Draco was alive or not, he must have felt that she certainly was not like other Death Eaters.

I have a question, and all are welcome to answer.

If Harry told Narcissa that Draco was dead, what do you think she would have done?

Honestly, I think she'd have been so overcome with grief that anything is possible. Tell Voldie Harry is alive? Sure. Try to kill Voldie herself? Sure. Cry/scream/react in some way that gives away Harry's status? Sure.

Thanks :)

If Harry told Narcissa that Draco was dead, what do you think she would have done?

I still think Narcissa would have betrayed Voldemort. She would have been livid, because in HBP itself she knows that Draco has been given an impossible job, only so that he can fail and then be punished. So Narcissa, I think would have been furious that Draco had been killed because Voldmeort had been unjustifiably unhappy with them and she would have helped Harry so that she could take her revenge against Voldemort for killing her son IMO.

Thanks :)
If Harry told Narcissa that Draco was dead, what do you think she would have done?

Killed him. :evil: :lol:. In truth, probably cried out in her grief and given the whole thing away.

I think that once Narcissa asked Harry whether Draco was alive or not, he must have felt that she certainly was not like other Death Eaters.


I think Harry has some 'subconscious' knowledge of her - the faint memory of remarks like 'my mother didn't want me to be so far away from home' and 'pity his mum loves him, it'd have been so easy to push him off a glazier and make it look like an accident', together with facts like him overhearing Snape and Draco talk about the Unbreakable Vow that she made Snape give, and hearing Draco be truly desperate for his mother's sake in HBP (in the bathroom and on the tower). Also, Harry has seen Lucius begging for Draco's sake previously, and he can assume that Lucius will have communicated Voldemort's verdict to his wife - Harry knows that Draco is toast as soon as Voldemort gets him and that his mum must know about this, too.
On the subconscious level, Harry KNOWS that Narcissa is foremost a mum - and her question about Draco in that situation confirms that still - and Harry KNOWS about mums, and about the length they're willing to go for their children. Not only because he knows about Lily's sacrifice, but also because he's seen Aunt Petunia for ten years. He knows for a fact that even the most terrible people have strong bonds on that sector, and he can easily conclude that he can 'rely' on Draco's mum as well in a moment like that, and if only because her principal interest conincides with his, here.

Grat analysis Fleur, I agree. There was also Narcissa's defense of Draco in Mdm. Malkin's and I would add to the scene itself that the mere fact Narcissa was quietly asking him the question at all spoke toward conspiracy against Voldemort.

It is interesting to think of what may have motivated Narcissa in the forest to lie to Voldemort and what may have been going through Harry's head at the time.

I think that from Harry's point of view, he had no choice but to lay there and pretend he was dead. He probably planned to play dead while Narcissa checked him and then decide what to do depending on what she said. It is interesting to think that Harry may have made a conscious decision to tell Narcissa the truth in hopes that her "mother" instincts would kick in and he would benefit from it. Or it is possible that he told the truth because he is just that kind of guy. I personally think it is the latter rather than the former, but that is just my opinion.

Narcissa is the one with the interesting actions in this scene. She is the total mother here. She doesn't care what Voldemort would do to her if he caught her lying. It is a big risk, in my opinion. Her mother instincts may have kicked in for Harry's benefit, too, but I am not sure about that. Here is a kid that is the same age as her son who has obviously lived through an AK curse for the second time in his life. Could Narcissa have believed in the prophecy? Could she be remembering that Harry is supposed to be The Chosen One and she might be able to help him and thereby help her family, too?

I think Voldemort himself ensures that none of his Death Eaters forgets about Harry being The Chosen One. With all the fuss he makes about the boy, AND combined with the fact that Harry survived a Killing Curse as a child, and managed to escape from the graveyard. I do think that Narcissa, when seeing him there, must be thinking for a moment (before discovering he's alive) that their last hope has perished there. As long as Harry lives, there's a chance of seeing the end of Voldemort, and by now (after Lucius' and Voldemort's exchange just minutes before, additional to the fact that Lucius was lucky enough to survive the afternoon killing spree when Voldemort killed everyone in his way after hearing about the Gringotts heist) she must have realised that her family's single chance for continual survival IS getting rid of Voldemort somehow.

I don't think she would deliberately have given Harry away in any case due to that calculation. The difference that it makes - that he can tell her that Draco lives - is that she can control herself. I think if he had said Draco was dead, her reaction would have given them both away - I don't think Narcissa would have managed to get up as if nothing had happened and lied through her teeth then.

As for him being the type to tell the truth - I slightly (SLIGHTLY) disagree there. Harry isn't stupid, he does know how to play his cards. Let's say the situation had been entirely different - let's say Voldemort was absent, some other DE had tried to kill him, and someone like Greyback had checked on Harry, and asked quietly if some young werewolf under his care was alive still - in such a situation, for example, it might have been smarter to try inciting Greyback's vindictiveness against the people responsible. I do think that his answer and reaction to Narcissa has something to do with Narcissa herself, not a mere inner drive to tell the truth at any rate. Harry CAN lie very smoothly if lying is called for, but in this situation he'd be simply stupid to do it. What's more - he's suddenly got an unexpected ally in the Death Eater ranks. Because from this moment on, Narcissa has as much interest in avoiding his discovery as he has, and if only because she knows that she'd be killed at once if it became obvious that Harry has survived. In a situation like Harry's there, it can only be positive to know that at least one person is on your side, among that nasty set of people.

And yet, it is still quite odd that Voldemort asks Narcissa to check on Harry. I mean of all people. She is not even a Death Eater and he knows that she and her family are no longer the trusted group they had been in the past. Of course he goes on to check things out, but it is very odd that he'd ask her in the first place I think.

On the other hand, Narcissa has 'appeared' to wish to be back in his good graces like her husband. And although Voldy knows they are concerned about Draco, I don't think he'd figure they'd actually betray him over it. Voldy seemed a little naive in that regard at times which could be put down to arrogance, but I rather see it as ignorance - refusal to understand that people like Narcissa are going to prioritze no matter what the situation - and Draco will come first.

And yet, it is still quite odd that Voldemort asks Narcissa to check on Harry. I mean of all people. She is not even a Death Eater and he knows that she and her family are no longer the trusted group they had been in the past. Of course he goes on to check things out, but it is very odd that he'd ask her in the first place I think.


I so agree with this. This has also puzzled me so much. I think it was because of things like this that I think Voldy was not the Dark Lord he was made to be in the first 6 books. :D

And yet, it is still quite odd that Voldemort asks Narcissa to check on Harry. I mean of all people. She is not even a Death Eater and he knows that she and her family are no longer the trusted group they had been in the past. Of course he goes on to check things out, but it is very odd that he'd ask her in the first place I think.


I think that he would have sent Pettigrew to check if he was still alive. The Malfoys are the new Pettigrew. They get the scut work that doesn't require magic. They also get to do the tasks that are potentially dangerous. Pettigrew is told to go check on Harry/Ron when Lucius is worried that something is going on downstairs. I don't think it's because they don't trust Draco (they'd just sent him to get Griphook). I think Pettigrew is sent because Lucius feels that he's expendable.

I think that Voldemort considers Narcissa expendable. If Harry isn't dead, then Harry might try to attack the person who is sent to check on him. Narcissa doesn't even have a wand anymore. She's defenseless. Voldie doesn't care. He does the same sort of thing the others used to do to Pettigrew to make him do things:


"You," said Voldemort, and there was a bang and a small shriek of pain. "Examine him. Tell me whether he is dead."

He doesn't even call her by name. She is a servant just as Pettigrew is. Here is a passage involving him


There was a loud bang and a squeal, followed by the sound of Wormtail scurrying back up the stairs.

Voldemort checks himself if Harry is dead once he is re-assured that he is dead and won't suddenly be working some of his Boy-Who-Lived Mojo on him. I'm sure by this time in the series, Voldemort is actually starting to get a little freaked out by Harry's ability to keep surviving. Voldemort's Boggart probably looks like Harry (okay, probably not, but I think Voldie's a little spooked).

I agree that Voldemort sees Narcissa as a servant, someone he can push around as though they were a house elf. The fact he causes her pain to make her do it (he didn't even offer her the chance to say yes) shows his disdain of her - I don't think he'd have done that to a DE. And I think he wanted to show his followers that checking on Harry Potter was the most menial of tasks, and not worth using a good wizard on. He did like to keep putting Harry down. Typical that Voldy's failure to understand love meant he sent the one person to check on Harry who was likely to lie, or at least had another agenda.

I think that he would have sent Pettigrew to check if he was still alive. The Malfoys are the new Pettigrew. They get the scut work that doesn't require magic. They also get to do the tasks that are potentially dangerous. Pettigrew is told to go check on Harry/Ron when Lucius is worried that something is going on downstairs. I don't think it's because they don't trust Draco (they'd just sent him to get Griphook). I think Pettigrew is sent because Lucius feels that he's expendable.

I think that Voldemort considers Narcissa expendable. If Harry isn't dead, then Harry might try to attack the person who is sent to check on him. Narcissa doesn't even have a wand anymore. She's defenseless. Voldie doesn't care. He does the same sort of thing the others used to do to Pettigrew to make him do things:


"You," said Voldemort, and there was a bang and a small shriek of pain. "Examine him. Tell me whether he is dead."

He doesn't even call her by name. She is a servant just as Pettigrew is. Here is a passage involving him


There was a loud bang and a squeal, followed by the sound of Wormtail scurrying back up the stairs.

Voldemort checks himself if Harry is dead once he is re-assured that he is dead and won't suddenly be working some of his Boy-Who-Lived Mojo on him. I'm sure by this time in the series, Voldemort is actually starting to get a little freaked out by Harry's ability to keep surviving. Voldemort's Boggart probably looks like Harry (okay, probably not, but I think Voldie's a little spooked).

Narcissa and Pettigrew have completely different personalities. He's a coward who seeks his own safety from someone who has power and can protect him. Narcissa's brave, intelligent and manipulative. He hasn't got an ounce of guts, while Narcissa has a lot of it; solidified when she makes the grand stand against Voldemort.

Pettigrew did nothing when he was terrorized by Voldemort. Narcissa did. And look at what happened to Voldemort because of it.

I love Narcissa as a character: she is as subtle as Snape: a mixture of good and bad.

Bad:
-She comes from the Black family and chose to believe in the same things as majority: pure blood supremacy versus mudbloods (her coolness and disdain at Hermione in Mrs. Malkin's shop).
-She therefore didn't care about Sirius, Andromeda or Tonks and wouldn't react about their deaths.
-She was probably snobbish and proud about her husband's connections (her wrinkled nose at the quiddich world-cup, and what she says when she leaves Malkin's shop for another one)
-She is not even really attached to her sister Bella, and can hurt her ("let go Bella"! when she wants to see Snape in HBP: she uses her wand as a knife and makes Bella scream a little)
-She seems very cold/cool overall and dominant in the scene where she meets the trio at Malkin's shop.
-She probably was with her hubby playing with muggles at the world cup, as Draco was alone in the woods.

Good:
-She wants to keep her son close and therefore sends him at Hogwarts (confronting Lucius who would have sent him to the other school) over Durmstrang, and keeps sending him treats and offering him the best clothes, the nicest owl, etc
-She comes to the world cup with her son and husband, and whether it is for show or else, I think it is a family moment, the Malfoys bonding to see the games together.
-She is never seen joining in any attack, at the ministry or else. She keeps in the background, happy to let her husband make decisions, unless it interferes with important things for her (keeping a good aristocratic image, keeping her son to her as much as she can)
-She is not hating Sirius or Tonks or Andromeda, it seems, like Bella. She is more indifferent to their fate, when Bella is pursuing them to kill them.
-She doesn't seem aware of some things Lucuis did, like the diary in Hogwarts. As someone said before, I don't think she would have allowed it, because her son was in the school, and she probably was a bit angry with Lucius too, about him losing Dobby as an house-elf, and angry at Harry of course, for thwarting Lucius' plans.
-She is courageous for the ones she loves: the husband she chose and the kid they got together. And herself of course as her name is Narcissa: she must love herself too:she doesn't take humiliation easily, wheter it comes from harry or from V. But for Draco and Lucius, she goes in the battle without a wand, she lies, she accepts humiliation without a word.

After reading the end of HBP and DH, I think also the following:
-She wasn't probably happy that Bella taught occlumency to Draco. BTW I don't think Bella would be good at that, unhinged as she is and always letting her strong feelings appear, whereas Narcissa can keep cool and can blatantly lie to V.
-She was scared for Draco and therefore must have had no choice at all about him becoming DE.
-I liked the fact that she seems to care about Lucius as much as she does about Draco. It makes me wonder: I think Harry is indifferent to her as much as Sirius, Tonks or Andromeda, or even Bella at the beginning. She might just side with Draco's dislike because of what Draco says, his jaleousy and all. But after OOTP, she might hold a real grudge to Harry for being the one making her husband fail and sending him indirectly to prison. So now she sides against Harry for her ideas about pure-bloods, Draco's sake, and Lucius' fate. But at the same time, she probably begins to fear, and therefore hate V, for also being the cause of Lucius' imprisonment and for enrolling Draco and putting him in danger.
I think, as someone suggested earlier, that when this fear gained in growth, along with her humiliation in her own house (and a Black, as Sirius would say, were almost royal in the good opinion they had of themselves), she had already taken side against V.
In DH, she is just patient, with a deadpan look, waiting for the right opportunity as a true Slytherin: or wait until the storm is over, or take action against V.
She takes action by "omission", telling a lie, saying that Harry is dead. She sides when she knows she has nothing to loose. Had Harry told her that Draco had died, I am still not sure of her reaction, but I assume she would still have saved Harry to get revenge on V for putting him into danger and for indirectly killing him. She would have been much more desperate and maybe unhinged like Bella about loosing her only son, and at that point would have been a danger to everyone and anyone, V as much as Harry and the whole world...

I don't think she was a DE because of this ability to love or be cooly indifferent. All the other DE are enjoying being rough, killings and yellings, but none of them is indifferent or cold like her.

I cannot picture Narcissa to be one of the people causing havoc at the World Cup. No, she has more class than that.

Narcissa loved Bellatrix. Bellatrix is evil, but she was always considerate with her sister. And what she did to her sister was normal. She was afraid of her son dying.

As a side note, I've always noticed that Draco had a real cowardice in him. Narcissa, unlike her son, was courageous.

I dunno; I didn't really get a fix on Narcissa in as far as bravery went. I think Draco was very brave when it came to protecting his family and himself. But that is how I saw Narcissa too.

I cannot picture Narcissa to be one of the people causing havoc at the World Cup. No, she has more class than that.

Well, she has to be since she wasn't in the woods with Draco and he wasn't looking for and didn't seem concerned about being separated from her.

I think that he would have sent Pettigrew to check if he was still alive. The Malfoys are the new Pettigrew. They get the scut work that doesn't require magic. They also get to do the tasks that are potentially dangerous. Pettigrew is told to go check on Harry/Ron when Lucius is worried that something is going on downstairs. I don't think it's because they don't trust Draco (they'd just sent him to get Griphook). I think Pettigrew is sent because Lucius feels that he's expendable.

I think that Voldemort considers Narcissa expendable. If Harry isn't dead, then Harry might try to attack the person who is sent to check on him. Narcissa doesn't even have a wand anymore. She's defenseless. Voldie doesn't care. He does the same sort of thing the others used to do to Pettigrew to make him do things:


"You," said Voldemort, and there was a bang and a small shriek of pain. "Examine him. Tell me whether he is dead."

He doesn't even call her by name. She is a servant just as Pettigrew is. Here is a passage involving him


There was a loud bang and a squeal, followed by the sound of Wormtail scurrying back up the stairs.

Voldemort checks himself if Harry is dead once he is re-assured that he is dead and won't suddenly be working some of his Boy-Who-Lived Mojo on him. I'm sure by this time in the series, Voldemort is actually starting to get a little freaked out by Harry's ability to keep surviving. Voldemort's Boggart probably looks like Harry (okay, probably not, but I think Voldie's a little spooked).

You know, I think the overall problem is that on the one hand, Voldemort is so intelligent and brilliant that he can come up with all of this new and fancy magic; give Dumbledore a run for his money and win over tons of people to his evil cause. Then on the other hand, when JKR gives us glimpses of him in action, he comes across as a bit of a dunce. Why trust Narcissa of all people to check and see if Harry, his greatest nemesis is dead? I understand using Peter because there was no one else around. But Narcissa when he had Bella there? It makes no sense. Also, after Harry disclosed the entire truth to Voldy in the Great Hall at the final battle, he forged on using the Elder Wand like a dunce. I just didn't get it...

So maybe that is why the deal with Narcissa doesn't make sense to me - none of his acts do upon close inspection.

You know, I think the overall problem is that on the one hand, Voldemort is so intelligent and brilliant that he can come up with all of this new and fancy magic; give Dumbledore a run for his money and win over tons of people to his evil cause. Then on the other hand, when JKR gives us glimpses of him in action, he comes across as a bit of a dunce. Why trust Narcissa of all people to check and see if Harry, his greatest nemesis is dead? I understand using Peter because there was no one else around. But Narcissa when he had Bella there? It makes no sense. Also, after Harry disclosed the entire truth to Voldy in the Great Hall at the final battle, he forged on using the Elder Wand like a dunce. I just didn't get it...

So maybe that is why the deal with Narcissa doesn't make sense to me - none of his acts do upon close inspection.

Yeah..everything you say makes sense, so it ought to be for the sake of the plot and also to show that Narcissa would even hoodwink the greatest occlumens probably,realising the safety of her son, and also, I think she always wanted to give Voldy a thing or two and voila! This was the perfect chance and she used it well.

Yeah..everything you say makes sense, so it ought to be for the sake of the plot and also to show that Narcissa would even hoodwink the greatest occlumens probably,realising the safety of her son, and also, I think she always wanted to give Voldy a thing or two and voila! This was the perfect chance and she used it well.

Though I entirely agree with wickedwickedboy and I agree that you could have a good point, I still always thought it was because he had no comprehension of love and its power over others. I never really thought that it was just a plot detail that shows his common sense, or lack thereof, as the case may be. I figured that it all had to do with his callousness in tossing aside what he never felt and what he knew nothing about.

1. Is she a Death Eater?
No I dont think she is. She never turns up where the Death Eaters do and I dont believe she was in the graveyard in GOF. I think she was something like a wife to a man who's in the KKK for example. Affiliates herself with them but isnt a full fledge member. Only the most devoted could be members right?

2. Did Narcissa know of Lucius's intent to use Voldemort's diary to re-open the CoS? Was she part of the plan or did she try to stop him?

Its hard to say, I imagine she knew that the diary was the Dark Lords and that it was important to Lucius but I cant say she knew what would happen when Lucius got it back in the school. I think she's a bit like Petunia in many ways, no fault in her own family.

3. How does she feel now that her husband has been captured, exposed, and imprisoned as a Death Eater?

Like any wife would, a mix of worried, scared and embarassed I imagine.

4. Why allow her son, who is not of age, to become a Death Eater? Was she proud at first? Was she fearful, once his task was set for him?

Do you think she held that much sway over Draco at that age? Especially since she had been so passive to him her whole life. She cant exactly put her foot down now.

5. We know that she has contact with Bellatrix, Draco even took lessons from Bella over the summer, but what relationship, if any, does she have with Andromeda & Tonks?

No, I dont think so. They are estranged family and doesnt want to shame her husband. What would they talk about after all?

6. How did Narcissa feel about Sirius Black? Did she know he wasn't a Death Eater? Did she know he was innocently sentenced to Azkaban? How did she react to his death at the hands of her sister?


Im sure she knew that he wasnt a death eater. Lucius probably told her and was delighted about his imprisionment for it. She probably to herself felt that this war was getting out of control if family was killing family. Im sure she didnt mourn him but probably felt regret.


7. Will 'Cissy' be punished for seeking help from Severus? Will we see her in the final book? What role will she play?

Book already out. :) I bet shes just glad the war is over and she can go back to a more quiet life.

Though I entirely agree with wickedwickedboy and I agree that you could have a good point, I still always thought it was because he had no comprehension of love and its power over others. I never really thought that it was just a plot detail that shows his common sense, or lack thereof, as the case may be. I figured that it all had to do with his callousness in tossing aside what he never felt and what he knew nothing about.

I agree, but I still feel like that could only be stretched so far. I mean Voldemort's behavior becomes a little less than believable because Narcissa was not a Death Eater, didn't really participate - which separates her from Peter in a second regard. She had obviously rejected becoming a Death Eater and Voldemort had let her get away with that - I suppose for Lucius' sake - and the rest of her family which was behind him. But also because I guess he figured she shared the values but just did not wish to participate. But to then depend on her in that situation is just pretty freaky of Voldy. :lol:

I have a question. Was Narcissa evil? Her husband, her sister, her friend (Snape), and even her son were Death Eaters, but was she? I never really got it and in Half-Blood Prince it didn't seem like she liked Voldemort much. Was she a big supporter?

I have a question. Was Narcissa evil? Her husband, her sister, her friend (Snape), and even her son were Death Eaters, but was she? I never really got it and in Half-Blood Prince it didn't seem like she liked Voldemort much. Was she a big supporter?

I don't think she was evil. She had bigoted views, like her husband and sister, but she wasn't zealous enough to become a Death Eater.

Same. I don't think she was evil at all. I think she had a superiority complex and considered herself highly superior, took things for granted. But evil, no. I think she supported Voldemort and the Death Eaters, originally, because they offered power and pride.

But at the end of the day, like many others, it was Narcissa who showed her quality by proving her love was bigger than her badness.

But at the end of the day, like many others, it was Narcissa who showed her quality by proving her love was bigger than her badness.I really liked the way that was done, having Narcissa basically saving Harry because of her love for Draco. It illustrated extremely well the power of love and the fact that Voldemort completely did not understand it. Even before that scene in DH, the Unbreakable Vow in HBP showed that Narcissa's love for her family overpowered her badness. I think Narcissa is sort of in the middle in terms of badness, especially since she wasn't a Death Eater. It is interesting how Voldemort allowed her to serve him not as a Death Eater but as merely a supporter.

I've just noticed something interesting a few days ago. Many people say that Andromeda was the one hit the hardest by the deaths, and honestly, I don't disagree with that.

However, when Narcissa lied to Voldemort, she not only caused him to greet his demise, but Bellatrix too. Her own sister whom she actually did love.

Welcome to the post-DH discussion of Narcissa Malfoy. Previous discussion without spoilers can be found here:Narcissa Malfoy: Character Analysis (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=96580)

1. Is she a Death Eater?
She was at the Quidditch World Cup, but like her husband, was nowhere to be found during the post-game Muggle torture by Death Eaters.
Many apparated to Voldemort in the cemetery following his rebirth, and although Lucius was named, she was not.
She wasn't part of the group of Death Eaters who tried to obtain the prophecy in the Dept. of Mysteries.
She apparently knows of the Dark Lord's plans for her son, enough to seek out Snape.

2. Did Narcissa know of Lucius's intent to use Voldemort's diary to re-open the CoS? Was she part of the plan or did she try to stop him?


3. How does she feel now that her husband has been captured, exposed, and imprisoned as a Death Eater?

4. Why allow her son, who is not of age, to become a Death Eater? Was she proud at first? Was she fearful, once his task was set for him?

5. We know that she has contact with Bellatrix, Draco even took lessons from Bella over the summer, but what relationship, if any, does she have with Andromeda & Tonks?

6. How did Narcissa feel about Sirius Black? Did she know he wasn't a Death Eater? Did she know he was innocently sentenced to Azkaban? How did she react to his death at the hands of her sister?

7. Will 'Cissy' be punished for seeking help from Severus? Will we see her in the final book? What role will she play?



IMO I think that in the presence of her husband she relunctantly went along with the plan. I think that she also feared Voldemort. Knowing the consequences if she outright said no I will not sacrifice my son; and thoughts of what will happen if Draco failed? She was stuck in a damned if do; damned if I don't situation and she did what any loving mother would do to protect her child by any means necessary even if it meant her own life. This is the only comparison that she has with Lily Potter.

I don't think Narcissa was a DE @ all. But because of her family's bloodline and the favor of it she was allowed to sit in on meetings. Now as far as the diary goes I don't think she knew of Lucius having the diary and his plans but had she'd known she would've been all for it. She's still prejudiced.

She's embarrassed and ashamed now that its all out in the open. But as long as her husband being a DE on the low it was cool.

She never wanted Draco to become a DE, but there was nothing she could do about it if the Dark Lord wanted what he wanted. I think in her heart of hearts she knew Draco would fail the task that was given to him. She'd already lost her husband to Azkaban, she would definitely lose her son by death.

I believe that Narcissa's heart isn't as hard as Bellatrix's. IMHO if there was a chance for Narcissa to reconcile with Andromeda she would.

I'll have to re-read DH to answer #7

Thanks :)

I think that once Narcissa asked Harry whether Draco was alive or not, he must have felt that she certainly was not like other Death Eaters.

I have a question, and all are welcome to answer.

If Harry told Narcissa that Draco was dead, what do you think she would have done?

She still would've told Voldy that Harry was dead so Harry would kill him to much of her satisfaction. Payback! Revenge

New question:

Did Narcissa ever reconcile with Andromeda after the war?

I really liked the way that was done, having Narcissa basically saving Harry because of her love for Draco. It illustrated extremely well the power of love and the fact that Voldemort completely did not understand it. Even before that scene in DH, the Unbreakable Vow in HBP showed that Narcissa's love for her family overpowered her badness. I think Narcissa is sort of in the middle in terms of badness, especially since she wasn't a Death Eater. It is interesting how Voldemort allowed her to serve him not as a Death Eater but as merely a supporter.

Ummm...I understand your point, but aren't you forgetting that in the Unbreakable vow Narcissa made Snape promise to "kill" Dumbledore if Draco couldn't? That aspect of it, while still allowing for her love for her son to be shown, rather taints the whole thing to the point of "rotten" in my judgment. I mean, the alternative of course is to just try to figure out a way to save Draco without the nefarious intent involved. So I don't see love overpowering badness here, I see it encouraging badness.

As for the final battle scene, I would give Narcissa the benefit of the doubt and assume she would not have squealed on Harry even if he told her that Draco was dead or that he didn't know what had become of him. But that is actually pretty questionable...

But I do agree that it was definitively shown she loved her son. JKR showed a lot of different types of love though and I think it is important not to allow the fact that "love" was involved overshadow the other factors involved. Love does not cure all of the ills of every situation (and I don't think you are saying that, I am just moving on) - as we saw with Merope's deep love which cause her to behave nefariously as did Bella's and Snape's - Lucius' and Kreacher's - and even Dumbledore's to some extent. So the moral isn't that "love is all wonderful" but rather it can provoke actions, some good, some bad, some miraculous, some nefarious, some incredible, some distasteful, etc., because it is a powerful emotion. (Again, that last bit is just me, I don't think you feel otherwise necessarily :lol:)

Narcissa really did become a fascinating character. She is a very grey character since she wanted to do the wrong things because she thought it was right for her (assisting in the plot against Dumbledore for her son).

I found Narcissa to be fascinating in DH and, I believe, a prime example of the "Mum" factor throughout the series.

JKR gave Arthur Weasley a reprieve from death because of the lack of truly good (and alive!) Dads in the books. But we don't see that with the family matriarchs. Lily, Molly, Narcissa - in my opinion all cut from the same cloth. Once these women became parents, loyalty was never a question - it would always be with their children. Narcissa was raised to believe a certain way, made a marriage that reinforced those beliefs, and yet when the time came, turned her back on those beliefs in order to save her son. I found her lying to Voldemort to be as heroic a moment as any. I, too, wondered about Voldemort reading her mind, and don't know how accomplished an Occlumens she was, but I do think that upon hearing that her son was alive, her mind filled with a love that would have made it impossible for him to penetrate.

I found Narcissa to be fascinating in DH and, I believe, a prime example of the "Mum" factor throughout the series.

JKR gave Arthur Weasley a reprieve from death because of the lack of truly good (and alive!) Dads in the books. But we don't see that with the family matriarchs. Lily, Molly, Narcissa - in my opinion all cut from the same cloth. Once these women became parents, loyalty was never a question - it would always be with their children. Narcissa was raised to believe a certain way, made a marriage that reinforced those beliefs, and yet when the time came, turned her back on those beliefs in order to save her son. I found her lying to Voldemort to be as heroic a moment as any. I, too, wondered about Voldemort reading her mind, and don't know how accomplished an Occlumens she was, but I do think that upon hearing that her son was alive, her mind filled with a love that would have made it impossible for him to penetrate.


:agree: That's a good point. Lily died to save her infant son, Molly was prepared to duel to death due to greif of her dead son and Narcissa risked almost everything to see her son and make sure that he got through tough hurdles safely. Yes, they are all of the same mothering philosophy. I agree with you on the last part. Seeing that Bellatrix ix an occumulens, I think Narcissa may have been as well. Also, in the Department of Mysteries, Voldemort was forced from Harry's mind due to the endless love of his godfather. It is possible that the same may have happened with Narcissa.

Narcissa really did become a fascinating character. She is a very grey character since she wanted to do the wrong things because she thought it was right for her (assisting in the plot against Dumbledore for her son).

I agree. :tu: This is one of the reasons why I find the Malfoys so much more interesting as 'bad guys' than Voldemort. They have layers: particularly Narcissa (and Draco).

And JKR makes me care a lot about Narcissa and her family.

Of course I don't agree with their politics. :yuhup: But I enjoy them immensely as characters.

I found Narcissa to be fascinating in DH and, I believe, a prime example of the "Mum" factor throughout the series.

:agree: Very perceptive!

LilyPod, who used to post here a lot, once compared Lucius and Narcissa to James and Lily, in the sense that they are complete opposites (the Malfoys fight for the Dark side most of their lives, James and Lily lived and died for the Light) but they are both couples completely devoted to each other. I've always liked that comparison. :cool:

Yes, we have at least three very devoted mothers in the saga, who will do anything to save their kids: Lily, Molly and Narcissa.

Narcissa's reasons are of course far more morally ambivalent than Lily or Molly's, but that only serves to make her interesting.

My jury is out on how heroic she was, really, in saving Harry's life: it was certainly very brave of her to lie to Voldemort. :cool: Her motive is obviously to save Draco -- does that mean she would have sold Harry out to Voldemort if he didn't know where Draco was? Hmmmm, we wonders, yes, we wonders!

All the same, I'm glad she did that for Harry :D. Obviously. :)

I, too, wondered about Voldemort reading her mind, and don't know how accomplished an Occlumens she was, but I do think that upon hearing that her son was alive, her mind filled with a love that would have made it impossible for him to penetrate.

That's a very interesting notion. :tu: And plausible.

And welcome to the boards. :wave:

(I totally agree with your user name. :D He's mine too. :eyebrows: )

snapesmyhero, welcome to COS! :)

The Three mothers!

Molly, Narcissa and Lily were devoted to their children, and were willing to die for them; :agree: I found Lily and Narcissa more intreting than Molly, maybe because we know quite a few things about Molly, which we don't about the other two.

While their loyalty to theirs is never an issue or questioned, I would love to know what was going on Lily's mind when they were deciding the SK and how she agreed to it; it must have been an extraordinarily stressful time, and Narcissa, would she have still done what she did, if Draco was not there in the castle, or if he had been dead?

I don't know the answer to the former question, but can guess the answer to the latter. I think that Narcissa would have done exactly the same thing; I think she lost respect for Voldemort his organisation once Lucius was in prison and Draco was chosen to fail and be punished. I think she would have wanted Voldemort gone and she would have aided Harry in the Forest.

I don't know the answer to the former question, but can guess the answer to the latter. I think that Narcissa would have done exactly the same thing; I think she lost respect for Voldemort his organisation once Lucius was in prison and Draco was chosen to fail and be punished. I think she would have wanted Voldemort gone and she would have aided Harry in the Forest.[/QUOTE]


I agree completely with that. Narcissa, to me, made her loyalties clear the moment she set foot in Spinner's End.

I completely agree. The moment she went against Voldemort's orders in Spinner's End was the day she began the silent war with Voldemort.

You would think that she, along with her husband and her son, would be a death eater as well. Voldamort doesn't seem like the type of evil charter to let someone who is not one of his own, in on the secrets like Draco killing Dumbledore.

in the Department of Mysteries, Voldemort was forced from Harry's mind due to the endless love of his godfather. It is possible that the same may have happened with Narcissa.

I really doubt that. Harry is a special case, when he is not possesed while discussing with Dumbledore, Snape says 'Bu what does souls have to do with minds?' and Dumbledore anwers 'IN Harry's situation, Severus, they are almost the same'. (I'm not quoting).

Even if Narcissa's heart was filled with love for Draco, Voldemort could have seen what was in her mind. I think that arts like legilimency and Oclumency were popular between pureblood families.

Narcisa is interesting because, yes, she believes in Pureblood supremacy, but I think that in a way, she and her family were all like the Blacks, they liked Voldemort's 'ideology', but once they were in it could have been too much. I have his idea that the Malfoy's loyalties, lay just with the Malfoys. We know Draco was very spoiled by her mother, and that he looked up to his father. We know Narcissa was a very 'refined' lady. I think that Narcissa in the first war, was protected of the really nasty things by Lucius. Is clear that they love each other (or at least she loves him).

So, when Lucius failed, and was not able to 'protect' her of the reality, and his son was made a Death Eater with all the duties that came with it, she was desperate.

I found Narcissa to be fascinating in DH and, I believe, a prime example of the "Mum" factor throughout the series.

JKR gave Arthur Weasley a reprieve from death because of the lack of truly good (and alive!) Dads in the books. But we don't see that with the family matriarchs. Lily, Molly, Narcissa - in my opinion all cut from the same cloth. Once these women became parents, loyalty was never a question - it would always be with their children. Narcissa was raised to believe a certain way, made a marriage that reinforced those beliefs, and yet when the time came, turned her back on those beliefs in order to save her son. I found her lying to Voldemort to be as heroic a moment as any. I, too, wondered about Voldemort reading her mind, and don't know how accomplished an Occlumens she was, but I do think that upon hearing that her son was alive, her mind filled with a love that would have made it impossible for him to penetrate.


I like your reasoning but I didn't get the impression that LV was constantly walking around scanning people's minds for lies.

I think LV was so stunned/happy that he had finally just killed Harry that he was not in the frame of mind to think that Narcissa could possibly have the gall to betray him at that time. Even though he asked her to check, he believed that Harry was dead and this point, probably more so then any other part in any book, believed that no one would lie to him now!

Just another example of LV's many weaknesses.

My jury is out on how heroic she was, really, in saving Harry's life: it was certainly very brave of her to lie to Voldemort. :cool: Her motive is obviously to save Draco -- does that mean she would have sold Harry out to Voldemort if he didn't know where Draco was? Hmmmm, we wonders, yes, we wonders!

All the same, I'm glad she did that for Harry :D. Obviously. :)


I always found her act very brave, too. For Voldemort could've ordered one of the DEs to carry Harry back to the castle, if not for Hagrid being there. And so her act of betrayal could've been discovered. Yet, she risked it for her son's sake, taking in account that Harry was lying in the forest for a long time and probably something could've happened to Draco while Harry was away.
Which makes me think that apart from the fact that she was betraying Voldemort and his cause, Narcissa was actually risking her own and probably her husband's life too. In order to save her son. I think it was real sacrifice. As admirable as any sacrifice in the book, imo. And one of those which made crucial great differences.

I like Narcissa! I also feel really bad for her because she just wants her famliy to be safe, and she really doesn't want Lucius or Draco to be Death Eaters. :( Poor Narcissa

I like Narcissa! I also feel really bad for her because she just wants her famliy to be safe, and she really doesn't want Lucius or Draco to be Death Eaters. :( Poor Narcissa

I think she accepts the fact that Lucuis is a DE, but I completely agree about her opinion on Draco's involvement. It is clear in DH that Narcissa soes not like seeing her son be bossed around so it is likely that she would have disapproved of Voldy's doing the same. Naturally, Narcissa cares for her family. That is shown in many instances when her loyalty to the family has been pronounced: endangering her life to learn Draco's whereabouts from Harry, defending Lucius in Diagon Alley, defying Voldemort to seek assistance from Snape in HPB and more. She is quite admirable when you think about it.

Seriously I love Narcissa. Compare her desire for Draco to be safe, which went to the extent of her defying Voldemort (not known for his forgiving nature) to Lily casually watching her son go off to commit suicide by means of dark wizard.

Seriously I love Narcissa. Compare her desire for Draco to be safe, which went to the extent of her defying Voldemort (not known for his forgiving nature) to Lily casually watching her son go off to commit suicide by means of dark wizard.

Well perhaps when your dead yourself it lends a differant perspective to the proceedings. For Harry death would not be the worst thing, for Draco? Well if I was Narcissa I would have a lot to worry about on that score. The main differance is that Narcissa was worried about Draco, Lily was concerned about the entire world.

IMO, Narcissa and the Malfoys in general were JKR's way of showing how love is not only restricted to "good" people.

One of my favourite parts of the battle is when JKR refers to Lucius and Narcissa running through the battle looking for Draco with no regard for their own safety. To me, that is as good an example of the power of love as Narcissa lying to Voldy in the FF.

Narcissa is a very underrated character, IMO. I couldn't imagine the horror of a mother forcing to watch her son under threat everyday.

Narcissa is a very underrated character, IMO. I couldn't imagine the horror of a mother forcing to watch her son under threat everyday.


With a typical mother who cared and loved her children, I would agree greatly. As Narcissa does fall into this category, her feelings are likely to be the same. :tu:

I just wish in the Encyclopedia we get to read more about the Black sisters. It's fascinating to see how all three are so different.

I think Narcissa loves Draco as he is her son but she would change sides as often as it suited her when that would be in her favour.She wanted to be with the winning side which-ever it was.The Malfoys are people that never can be trusted just look how Draco acts during the battle.It would have been better to put them away just in case.It would not be fair but it would be safer

Narcissa is a very complicated character and we don't see her enough in the books to analyse her IMO. Except of her love for her son and husband we don't know anything else about her. :)

I want to see what kind of childhood Narcissa had, since she and her two sisters are all so vastly different.

Even though she can get pretty nasty, I can identify with her love for her only son, as well as the desperate fear she must feel for him.With Beatrix goading her on, Lucius watching her, she has a difficult life. I wonder how much she does is and says is fear driven rather than belief?:relax:

Even if Narcissa's heart was filled with love for Draco, Voldemort could have seen what was in her mind.
Yeah, something I only picked up during a recent re-read of the books is that Narcissa, Lucius and Draco all keep their eyes down whenever they are with Voldemort. This suggests that they are having second thoughts about him being in charge and they don't want him to know that their loyalty is to each other rather than to him. It kind of neatly foreshadows the fact that Narcissa will save Harry so she can find Draco.

Wow that's a brilliant observation, keeping the eyes down. Narcissa sure doesn't want Voldemort in her head, as Draco is number one for her, and I doubt she trusts Voldemort to care a fig either way what happens to him as long as he can be empowered. I too, am sorry the character of Narcissa was not more developed. I do think Voldemort firgured on Bellatrix keeping her in line. Maybe someone will do a fan fic on Narcissa..:huff:

And it won't be me! :lol: The character wasn't at all developed, except some basic characteristics such as her love for her family but nothing more. But I don't think Rowling was wrong for not developing that particular character. Narcissa, to me, didn't need to be developed, as she wasn't really involved in the general plot, she was only mentioned to give us some informations, such as that Draco should do a difficutl task, and make the Unbreakable Vow with Snape so that would be more suspense.

Yeah, something I only picked up during a recent re-read of the books is that Narcissa, Lucius and Draco all keep their eyes down whenever they are with Voldemort. This suggests that they are having second thoughts about him being in charge and they don't want him to know that their loyalty is to each other rather than to him. It kind of neatly foreshadows the fact that Narcissa will save Harry so she can find Draco.

This is an idea, though I think it was more to stop Voldemort from reading their minds; they were probably making sure not to have eye contact with him, under the pretence of great respect, so that he would not know that their loyalties were more towards each other than him. Voldemort kind of knew it anyway IMO. :)

With Beatrix goading her on, Lucius watching her, she has a difficult life. I wonder how much she does is and says is fear driven rather than belief?:relax:

I don't think either Bella or Lucius had such an effect on her, to be honest. In HBP, Narcissa doesn't seem to fear her sister at all. Actually, their relationship seemed to be a very relaxed one. If Narcissa was able to raise a wand on her sister and even hex her, means she was quite certain Bellatrix wouldn't react in a bad way or hex her back. So I assume Bellatrix wasn't at all horrible with her sister.

As for Lucius, I don't think he was watching her either. Narcissa was after all from a pure blood family. And believed in pure blood supermacy. She had her beliefs which she passed on to her son. That's pretty clear from Draco's behaviour.

What I mean to say is that Narcissa chose her way all by herself. I only sensed fear behind her actions when Lucius fell out Voldemort's favour. That's I think when she realised what route she'd chosen and what that choice had entailed.

Narcissa is a good character. She is strong, she loves her family and some ideas are quite strong in her life. She doesn´t fear vodemort because she lie him.

I must agree with tonks here.. Narcissa is a complex character, which Rowling delights in takes us on these twists and turns:huff:

Narcissa is a very complicated character and we don't see her enough in the books to analyse her IMO. Except of her love for her son and husband we don't know anything else about her. :)

We know that she holds the prejudices about blood that were passed down through the Black family. Unlike her sister and husband, she doesn't want to get her hands dirty about it, though. She can be spiteful -her remarks to Harry about being reunited with Sirius. She has a nerve neither her son nor her husband have in lying to Voldemort. Even if it was out of desperation and fear for her son's safety, she showed courage in lying to him, imo. We see that she trusts Snape to protect Draco - I wonder why that is. However, I think Spinners' End debunks theories that Snape is Draco's godfather, or else Narcissa would have brought that duty of care into the conversation.

[QUOTE=bellatrix93;5448424]I don't think either Bella or Lucius had such an effect on her, to be honest. In HBP, Narcissa doesn't seem to fear her sister at all. Actually, their relationship seemed to be a very relaxed one. If Narcissa was able to raise a wand on her sister and even hex her, means she was quite certain Bellatrix wouldn't react in a bad way or hex her back. So I assume Bellatrix wasn't at all horrible with her sister.

I'd have to agree - I doubt she'd have been able to raise a wand against Bella if she felt intimidated by her. Plus, Bella reasons with her rather than threatening when Cissy is going to Spinners' End. (Or as close as Bella gets to reason)

Narcissa is a good character. She is strong, she loves her family and some ideas are quite strong in her life. She doesn´t fear vodemort because she lie him.

I'm certain she feared him -any sane person probably did. However, I think her love for her child was stronger than her fear of Voldemort.

Even though we don't know that much about her, I really like her. I don't think she's cold like Lucius, just look at all the care packages she sends Draco. In my mind she's a rather warm, loving person. There's no doubt she has the same beliefs Lucius and Voldemort have, but I don't think she's equally caught up in it. It's not the centre of her universe, her family comes first.

We know that she holds the prejudices about blood that were passed down through the Black family. Unlike her sister and husband, she doesn't want to get her hands dirty about it, though.

In GoF when the trio are hiding in the woods while DE are running amok during the World Cup they come upon Draco on his own – to me the implication seems to be that both of his parents are taking part in the muggle baiting not just his father. :)

In GoF when the trio are hiding in the woods while DE are running amok during the World Cup they come upon Draco on his own – to me the implication seems to be that both of his parents are taking part in the muggle baiting not just his father. :)

I know that this isn't explicitly born out in canon, but I always pictured Narcissa as a very sophisticated woman. Updo, perfect makeup, high heels, and formal clothes, and perhaps it's that picture of her which prevents me from seeing her out wearing a mask in the middle of a sweltering mob. She seems more the type to stay behind and give the proceedings her aristocratic approval, but not be willing to go out and take part herself; as much from unwillingness to risk loss of dignity as anything else. We know she wasn't a Death Eater, even though she complied with their philosophies, and therefore I've never pictured her taking any large part in their dirty work. But that's just me. :)

I know that this isn't explicitly born out in canon, but I always pictured Narcissa as a very sophisticated woman. Updo, perfect makeup, high heels, and formal clothes, and perhaps it's that picture of her which prevents me from seeing her out wearing a mask in the middle of a sweltering mob. She seems more the type to stay behind and give the proceedings her aristocratic approval, but not be willing to go out and take part herself; as much from unwillingness to risk loss of dignity as anything else. We know she wasn't a Death Eater, even though she complied with their philosophies, and therefore I've never pictured her taking any large part in their dirty work. But that's just me. :)

Fair enough - we all have our own opionions but if she wasn't out with the other masked people where was she? I simply can't see her leaving Draco alone when there was panic everywhere unless she was occupied elewhere and couldn't come back but I can't imagin what that would be unles she was mugglebaiting too, Draco seems to have been in the Forest a while and seems to know what was going on in the camp - it always seemed to me his parents gave him a reason not to come back but wait to be picked up. :)

It's rather suprising that she didn't stay with Draco. That contradicts her actions in HBP and how she was very reluctant having him wander on his own. I agree that she must've had quite a big reason not to stay behind with her beloved son. Maybe she thought Draco would be safe on his own and so she chose to accompany her husband instead? Whether she actually participated in the actions or not I don't know, though. :shrug:.

That makes me wonder about the reason Narcissa never joined the DEs. Was it as LoonyForMoony suggests, that she doesn't like getting her hands dirty. Or because she didn't want to be bound by vows and so on? :hmm:. I also found it quite interesting that Voledmort never pressed on her joining..

In GoF when the trio are hiding in the woods while DE are running amok during the World Cup they come upon Draco on his own – to me the implication seems to be that both of his parents are taking part in the muggle baiting not just his father. :)

I hadn't thought of that before, but the text does kind of imply that Narcissa was involved with the muggle baiting.

GoF, The Dark Mark
'Where're your parents?' said Harry, his temper rising. 'Out there wearing masks, are they?'
Malfoy turned his face to Harry, still smiling. 'Well...if they were, I wouldn't be likely to tell you would I, Potter?'

I hadn't thought of that before, but the text does kind of imply that Narcissa was involved with the muggle baiting.

GoF, The Dark Mark
'Where're your parents?' said Harry, his temper rising. 'Out there wearing masks, are they?'
Malfoy turned his face to Harry, still smiling. 'Well...if they were, I wouldn't be likely to tell you would I, Potter?'

Exactly, I find Narcissa's absence particularly odd when we see the way in which Draco's parents make sure his is sat between them in the top box in the previous chapter - to me this seems like a rather protective action.

The contrast seems, to me, to indicate that the insinuation that both of Draco’s parents are taking part is in deed the case :)

I guess its also possible that Draco gave his mother the slip. I also have some difficulty believing that she actually took part.