Nymphadora Tonks's Death

Voldemort's evil and the suffering it caused was multigenerational. Neville and Harry were orphaned, as well as countless others when most of the origional Order sacrificed themselves, and the authors intentions were clear by echoing that feeling of loss in the new generation with Teddy. Still, it really felt like an afterthought. I would have liked to see the relationship between Lupin and Tonks given more development, as well as read about their final battle, and ensuing deaths, not just that their bodies rested beside Fred's. It felt like it was thrown in, and they deserved better.

Voldemort's evil and the suffering it caused was multigenerational. Neville and Harry were orphaned, as well as countless others when most of the origional Order sacrificed themselves, and the authors intentions were clear by echoing that feeling of loss in the new generation with Teddy. Still, it really felt like an afterthought. I would have liked to see the relationship between Lupin and Tonks given more development, as well as read about their herioc final battle, and ensuing deaths, not just that their bodies rested beside Fred's. It felt like it was thrown in, and they deserved better.

My first thought when reading about their deaths was "Okay, they just had a son and they're killed, that's so cruel. There's no doubt the author is trying to tell us something about orphans" and one of her interview confirmed my initial thought. I still can't get over their deaths though, it is so sad. I mean each death is awful and sad, but theirs particularly... Leaving Teddy behind. That made it even worse to me. And as several persons said, them being very human, generous characters, they deserved a better death.

Honestly, I felt the Tonks' death was the most unnecessary in the novel. I saw the reasoning for each of the other mid major characters to die, but her death just really seems to serve little purpose. Even as a comparison to Harry, having little Teddy Lupin growing up w/o his parents doesn't equate because he still has Andromeda, Harry, and eventually Ginny. I think the point could have been made w/o killing Tonks.

I imagine that she was one of the two who got killed off when presumably Hagrid got the reprieve.

Hagrid didnt get the reprieve. JKR said in an interview that she wanted Hagrid to be the one to carry Harry from the forest during the final battle from day one. Arthur Weasley got the repreive because he was a genuine father figure to harry, and harry had already lost the other father figures he had had (Sirius, his own father, and.. in a way. even though he was never a good father, Vernon Dursley).

Tonks' death combined with lupins was supposed to show that Voldemorts reign of terror carried on... that others were left in the same situation Harry was in years previous. that evil causes hurt. that things repeat themselves.

I think the saddest thing about tonks (and remus) was that I didn't see it coming. I was pretty sure every time we saw Snape he was about to drop dead in the books because we all knew that he was a goner. So in a way, we were prepared for it. With Tonks and Remus, finding out they were dead in a single line meant that if you were reading the book too fast, you could blink and miss it and not know any better until someone told you. We didn't see it coming and nearly missed the whole thing. But then that was Tonks whole character in book 7...

also channti, i think that mwbmis wrote her belief on hagrid's reprieve before we had any information in that regard.

I'm guessing you'll get to see beautiful Bella (*hearts*) kill Tonks in the movie. They'll certainly be wanting to make something out of the Molly vs. Bellatrix scene and the more they can make Bella disliked by the audience, the better that scene will play.

Disposing of Tonks would help there - she was a popular character.

I'm guessing you'll get to see beautiful Bella (*hearts*) kill Tonks in the movie. They'll certainly be wanting to make something out of the Molly vs. Bellatrix scene and the more they can make Bella disliked by the audience, the better that scene will play.

Disposing of Tonks would help there - she was a popular character.

I'm not sure this works out for the story. JKR places Lupin's and Tonks' death as a surprising additional double strike after Fred's death; showing them die might kinda ruin that.

Or maybe someone in the great hall will say they saw Bella kill her.

Either way I don't think they'll gloss over it as much as JK does in the book.

Or maybe someone in the great hall will say they saw Bella kill her.

Either way I don't think they'll gloss over it as much as JK does in the book.

I do not think she glossed it over. The moment Harry sees them lying right beside Fred he is pushed over the edge. He then runs to immerse himself in Snape's memories as a way to escape cruel reality.

He does not think that anything in Snape's memories could be worse...

I do not think she glossed it over. The moment Harry sees them lying right beside Fred he is pushed over the edge. He then runs to immerse himself in Snape's memories as a way to escape cruel reality.
Exactly, it's all about Harry. I know its his name on the front of the book but hey.. :lol:

I just think that from a film making perspective, following the book too closely on this issue would be a missed opportunity.

It'd be worthwhile to see Bellatrix's duel with Tonks. I'm much more pleased with that result (though, obviously, I hate that 'Dora died) because at least Tonks got a chance to face her nemesis on a level playing field. I must confess that I'm completely stumped as to how Dolohov lucked into killing Remus Lupin now, though.

The death was shocking enough. But what stunned me most is that their (Tonks & Lupin)
death wasn't expected at the very least. It was completly out-of-the-blue.

The death was shocking enough. But what stunned me most is that their (Tonks & Lupin)
death wasn't expected at the very least. It was completly out-of-the-blue.

Their deaths were heavily foreshadowed, more then anyone else’s in DH. In the first chapter Bella is instructed to: prune her family tree. Later in the books Tonks made it clear Bella was intent on killing her. When Harry was made godfather to Harry, I saw the nail finally close in their coffin. I am just glad that they were happy together and that they created Teddy and both lived to see and delight in him, even if it was for too short a time.

I think people are thinking too much in terms of this being a book... Yeah, Rowling had complete control over who lived and who died... But this was a war... Think of it as if it was real... Do you think Voldemorts' troops would think twice before killing anybody on the side of the Order? Obviously not. They never have before. Lupin and Tonks were simply in the wrong place at the wrong time and were killed... That's what happens in a war.

War shows no compassion, no sympathy.

I think people are thinking too much in terms of this being a book... Yeah, Rowling had complete control over who lived and who died... But this was a war... Think of it as if it was real... Do you think Voldemorts' troops would think twice before killing anybody on the side of the Order? Obviously not. They never have before. Lupin and Tonks were simply in the wrong place at the wrong time and were killed... That's what happens in a war.

War shows no compassion, no sympathy.

Yeah, but Tonks and Lupin's deaths were foreshadowed, like Dumbledore's. No one elses in the books was. At least I didn’t think that there was any indication, given in DH, that any of the other characters would have died. It was obvious Voldemort was going to die, but that’s beside the point. It is a novel, but fiction, unlike real life has to make sense, like the great G.Greene said.

Everyone moans that they just turned up dead, and they did, but that’s war, bodies just appear in a line and you have to look to see if there is anyone you know. Horrific but true to life. People can’t moan that we were given no indication that they may die, because we were.

I was pretty miffed at Tonks' death not being shown, the same as many other people. I didn't mind her dying (well, I did, but you can't be angry at the author of a book just because something happened that you don't happen to like), but she, along with Lupin honestly just plain deserved an on-page death. I suppose Rowling had a good-enough reason for only having a short mention of their deaths (I even somehow missed it the first time I read it through), but it still would have been possible for her death to be shown, or even her not dying.

Tonks' death was immensely unnecessary. JKR said she wanted to kill a father. So, why did she have to kill both of Teddy's parents??

AND it wasn't even shown!!! Remus was a huge character in Harry's life and I almost thought he was sleeping. Tonks was a skilled auror, I would have liked to see how she was taken down.

I think that Tonks' death had much more to do with Bellatrix's suppressed anger and hurt at Andromeda's (what Bella would view as) abandonment. She probably killed Tonks primarily to get back at Andromeda, on secondly to appease Voldemort; Bella probably killed Ted Tonks as well.

I think that Tonks' death had much more to do with Bellatrix's suppressed anger and hurt at Andromeda's (what Bella would view as) abandonment. She probably killed Tonks primarily to get back at Andromeda, on secondly to appease Voldemort; Bella probably killed Ted Tonks as well.

Yeah I agree with that. I think Tonks would have been high on Bella's target list anyway, just for existing.

Tonks' death was immensely unnecessary. JKR said she wanted to kill a father. So, why did she have to kill both of Teddy's parents??

It makes Teddy a half breed orphan I'm sure that was no accident on her part. Though beyond making us draw that connection between Teddy and Harry and/or Voldemort I can't see a purpose in it.


AND it wasn't even shown!!! Remus was a huge character in Harry's life and I almost thought he was sleeping. Tonks was a skilled auror, I would have liked to see how she was taken down.

I was a bit upset that she really let those two die in the background but maybe she felt it was overkill to play by play all the important deaths in this book, since there were so many.

she just had a baby and a husband. so not cool.... of course, as you can imagine i cried. so NOT cool...gr.

I quite liked the lack of time given to the deaths. It made it feel more like a real battle, not everyone in war has a 'glorious' Sirius esque death witnessed by everyone etc, made sense and added realism.



I agree. In a real battle there isn't necessarily the time to mourn every casualty. For some reason, though, the death of Tonks really made me sad. I guess she was the only grown-up woman really taking part in the war, she was a real fighter and not that much a maternal figure like Molly Weasley. Don't get me wrong, I love Molly, but my inner feminist liked Tonks for being a strong woman and not just a mother. She was an auror and had all that talent being a metamorphmagus and all. The fact that she had just had a baby who now had to grow up without his mother was, of course, very sad, but I found it even worse that the, in my opinion, strongest grown-up female character died. (Grown-up as in no longer Hogwarts-age like Hermione, Ginny, Luna et.c)

Both Tonks and Lupin's death were upsetting - made me cry loads. But I can see why she wanted to killed them off. I just wish there was more about their death than just "REmus and Tonks lay side by side, pale," or something like that. It was just a sentence, and it was just - it felt empty.

I was upset with Tonks death the most because she had always been my favorite, and I could relate to her. But I knew she was probably going to die once I found out Bellatrix was after her...

Perfectly said. I couldn't agree more.

I knew the absolute moment Lupin told Harry that he was the godfather that the couple would not make it through the fight. Call it foreshadowing, what ever. They were planning on not making it and planning that Harry would.

It is completely in line with both of their characters that they would be involved in the final battle. Lupin's the only survivng Maurauder, original Order member and already offered to leave his family once to go fight. Tonks is an Auror by trade and that's where she needed to be to make a difference. They were fighting for their baby's future. This was THE fight and nothing else would really matter if the good guys didn't win. Tonk's should have been looking for Lupin in the fight. Their bond would probably allow them to fight better together, cover each other's back and all that battle tactic type stuff.

Bottom line, they were prepared to die and not many people can say that.

I think it's kinda weird to say that all the deaths showed the "reality of war" and all that when we're talking about a series of books about people waving magic wands and flying on objects designed to sweep the floor. :err::err::err:
why does the only 'real thing' have to be half the characters dying??? :(:(

On the contrary, I couldn't care less about her death. She was barely in the books and had no characterization except maybe she likes to change her hair color and greet people with "Wotcher."

I think it's kinda weird to say that all the deaths showed the "reality of war" and all that when we're talking about a series of books about people waving magic wands and flying on objects designed to sweep the floor. :err::err::err:
why does the only 'real thing' have to be half the characters dying??? :(:(

Good point. In reality a lot of deaths (to many) have no reason, but this is fantasy literature and deaths normally are plot points with a reason. Tonks (and others) seem to have no reason other then filling in a butcher's bill. JKR has admitted Tonks was a last minute kill though no reason was given and I for one feel that in the escapism of a series like Harry Potter deaths should have a reason. If I want reasonless killings I can just turn on the evening news.

Personally, I loved Tonks' character, though I would've preferred more of a backstory on her. You know, if you do the math, she and Charlie Weasley would've gone to Hogwarts together, and I'd like to think she'd have been a Gryffindor, too, but I have no proof other than her heroism and spunk, and I personally believe that can be applied to any House.

Still, her death affected me greatly, and I was disappointed by how little she and Remus were mourned, but I can understand it. I mean, who has the time to grieve in middle of a battle? And then there was simply fatigue after the battle and then the jump of 19 years. I just miss her, and wish I had gotten to know her character better.

I think it's kinda weird to say that all the deaths showed the "reality of war" and all that when we're talking about a series of books about people waving magic wands and flying on objects designed to sweep the floor. :err::err::err:
why does the only 'real thing' have to be half the characters dying??? :(:(

You know, a Marine friend of mine wrote me a long letter on how 'real' battle is. I sent him a copy of DH, and he wrote back on how wands could be an equivalent of guns. The letter, by quote:

I really like how detached the Battle of Hogwarts is. I can’t truly explain how it feels to have bullets rushing past you, your own gun going off, your trigger finger numb, and how everything just falls apart when you’re struggling to stay alive. But those spells blasting past Harry, the sudden explosions, Fred’s sudden death, who had been laughing just a moment ago, a smile still plastered to his cold skin… Man, it was like vertigo reading it, my own memories playing off the narration. And then to suddenly find a mother and father dead, their child orphaned! I can only begin to tell you how many new Daddies I’ve seen die; how many children I’ve seen dead, hit by crossfire. The wands themselves could probably be a metaphor for guns. How little it takes to kill someone! One bullet, one spell. Avada Kedavra! Bang!

I think that letter (Yes, it was actual crappy handwriting on paper, I had to retype it for this little post.) has perhaps made me appreciate the books that much more.

I liked that there was no big account of her death. For the most part, In life, things like that just hit you. You don't see it and then--WHAM!. very sad, very realistic. I think it was also very romantic, her and Lupin dying together.

On the otherhand, it annoyed me that J.K said she killed Tonks and Lupin in the place of Mr. Weasley. He got a reprieve, and the two of them got killed :(. I'd rather she just stuck with the original, and killed him. By killing them, right after Fred, she finished off just about all of my favorite characters.

I was kinda shocked reading about Tonks. I've never particularly liked her but... it all looked as if she cared about Remus and loved him more than he did. She rushed up to Hogwarts to search for him, leaving her baby with his grandmother.

I don't like it. There's a difficult choice: to stay at home safely with a child or to go fighting. She chose the second option - actually it looks as if she was mainly interested in Remus's safety and... poor child :no:

When I read the sentence, I just closed my eyes, shouting a silent 'NO'... Ok Lupin and her were prepared to fight and die for the cause, but she was the mother a young baby!!! WHY??? Mothers just shoudn't be killed. Never. Poor Andromeda, who losts her husband and her daughter, and left alone with the poor little Teddy, that's so sad for both of them.

i got really upset by tonks and lupin's death because the sentence that they were beside fred just popped out, i never expected it until i read it. and if she was to die, i just wanted to see how, battling and dying gloriously at the side of the man whom she loved, but we know nothing.. and harry going on to DD's office left me with a sense of lack of something owed to her.. the mourning

Its awful that Tonks had to die, it was highly unnessecary and came as a huge shock. Poor little Teddy is alone now, he really has become the new Harry, at least he can be proud of his parenst, they fought to give him a better future

I Really Liked tonks she was awesome :( I really didnt think she would die

I felt sad taht Tonks died, because I liked her very much. She brought so much happiness to people around her.

Some people before me have said that Tonks death didn't have a reason. I strongly disagree. Both Lupin and Tonks are great characters and fighters for a free world. The fact that they both die leaves Teddy Lupin with no parents which makes him in my eyes the next Harry Potter. I can't help it but I was so touched with their death and the fact that Teddy was left an orphan. You know he will experience the same pain as Harry experienced over his parents death through the series. He will feel alone and will never have a completely normal life.

Tonks was one of my favourite characters from the books actually. I know she isn't discussed very elaborately but there's something about her which I really like. She a strong woman in a generally men's world (the order). She is a wizard feminist is some way and she is really cool with her hair colour chaning and all, and she marries a werewolf which proves she has a open heart and unprejudiced!

It was entirely unneeded. It would have been so much better if only Lupin had died and Tonks raised Ted, though sadly, alone. The same effect would have been generated.

In the most literal sense of the prase, overkill.

I don't know: I think if either of the deaths was there just to make Teddy an orphan it was Lupin's. From the beginning of DH, Bellatrix wanted Tonks dead, so it was foreshadowed from the start. Plus, it's a war, so some people are going to die, and unfortunately they're not all going to be the ones we dislike!

I really like Tonks as a character, don't get me wrong, and it was sad that she died- but I would have hated it even more if the good side had got away with very few deaths. It would have been unrealistic.

I didn't particularly like that Tonks was killed even though she wasn't one of my favorite characters, especially because she had just had a child, and ought to have stayed safe to care for him. Not that she didn't have just as much reason to go to war as Remus did, but she didn't seem to think of her child as much as she could have. Though the only thing I do like about the situation is that Remus and Tonks could hypothetically be together in the afterlife.

I didn't particularly like that Tonks was killed even though she wasn't one of my favorite characters, especially because she had just had a child, and ought to have stayed safe to care for him. Not that she didn't have just as much reason to go to war as Remus did, but she didn't seem to think of her child as much as she could have. Though the only thing I do like about the situation is that Remus and Tonks could hypothetically be together in the afterlife.

Yes, I think that Tonks should have stayed with the baby, as well. If both she and Remus went into battle, how could she be sure that Harry, the baby's godfather, would survive? He was the one LV was after. But maybe she was thinking more about the entire wizarding world. She probably wanted to help bring down Voldemort, too.

I also thought that Tonk's death was unnecessary-not because I was overly fond of her character or anything...but I thought it was just another name to throw into the "deceased" list. Lupin dying I almost expected...but when they said Tonks ended up dying I was like omg! Teddy deserved his mom. Thankfully he had decent relatives to raise him, unlike Harry.

I also thought that Tonk's death was unnecessary-not because I was overly fond of her character or anything...but I thought it was just another name to throw into the "deceased" list. Lupin dying I almost expected...but when they said Tonks ended up dying I was like omg! Teddy deserved his mom. Thankfully he had decent relatives to raise him, unlike Harry.

Yes, I agree with you. I felt like JKR killed off Tonks just because she had to kill off somebody. It was a war, and JKR had to throw in some deaths. But I don't think she should've killed off both of Teddy's parents.

EDIT:
I found this link: http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/20071161/?pg=18#JoRowling_ap
Maybe this will explain why JKR killed off Tonks.

Fantastic article GrangerHermione.

“I wanted to kill parents,” Rowling said, quickly admitting how horrible that sounds.

Throughout the books, the death of James and Lilly Potter is echoed in the deaths of Sirius, Dumbledore and Lupin, all of Harry’s father-figures in order to “show the absolute evil of what Voldemort’s doing.”

The death of Lupin and Tonks in the Battle of Hogwarts serves to create a new orphan, their son Teddy.

“I think one of the most devastating things about war is the children left behind,” Rowling said. “As happened in the first war when Harry's left behind, I wanted us to see another child left behind. And it made it very poignant that it was their newborn son.”



When I read that Tonks and Lupin died, I had to re-read the previous pages, because I just knew I missed something. Sadly I read right. The very first thing I thought of was Teddy being parentless, and how another "Harry' is being brought up. It was so sad, because I did expect Lupin to die, but nto Tonks.
Hey, teddy would be 11 this year! Hes going off to Hogwarts soon.

It's interesting that there is a strong theme of "should have" here, in relation to Teddy losing both parents. That was Jo's point, war is never fair.

I think the point of both Lupin and Tonks dying was to leave Teddy alone. I think it was supposed to mirror Harry's life.
Still, though, it was unnessicary. It made me cry so hard. I loved Tonks!

I`m ambivalent about Tonks`s death, to be honest. I can see why Rowling did it. She wanted another orphan to round the story off nicely. But still, Tonks was never a fully developed character IMO. I mean she had an unuaual gift (metamorphmagus), but it never realy served a purpose in the story. She was one of those characters that could`ve gone somewhere, but didn`t.

JKR did explain that tonks died because she wanted to show that an orphan like teddy could still have a happy life. but tonks dying was a real let down for me. i expected all the marauders to go but not her...she was just so cool

A waste of a young life, but that's what happens in war. I was very upset when I read it (more for Remus I must admit), and I couldn't believe it. I'm glad that JKR did what she did to show the parallels of Teddy's life to Harry's and to have another orphaned child and see the difference of his life in comparison to Harry's. Tonks died a very brave death :)

I was shocked by Tonks' death! I genuinely never even considered that she might die!

I felt that Tonks' purpose as a character shifted quite dramatically over the books. She started off as comic relief in OOTP, became a tragic character in HBP, and then towards the end of HBP and DH she became Lupin's last chance at happiness. Then her and Lupin both became tragic heroes at the end.

I think it's sad that we didn't get a "proper" death scene for Lupin and Tonks...it was written as more of an afterthought.

Saying that, I am a big fan of both Lupin and Tonks, so maybe I'm just making them out to be more major characters than they really are!

I absolutely love Lupin and Tonks (as you may have guessed!). I think that their deaths were kind of hasty and not well explained. Also it seems like JKR was just trying to tie things up like "oh, Teddy has to be an orphan too, to make it touching!" arrghhhh :no:

I absolutely love Lupin and Tonks (as you may have guessed!). I think that their deaths were kind of hasty and not well explained. Also it seems like JKR was just trying to tie things up like "oh, Teddy has to be an orphan too, to make it touching!" arrghhhh :no:

I found their deaths terribly sad but also quite realistically portrayed. In the midst of battle, people die very suddenly and there's not always time to give the fallen a great deal of attention. :(

That's a very nice sig pic, Lyratonks. Who's the artist? :)

ooh. its an artist on deviantart named either hito67 or hito76 i cant remember. she does beautiful pictures!

I found their deaths terribly sad but also quite realistically portrayed. In the midst of battle, people die very suddenly and there's not always time to give the fallen a great deal of attention. :(

That's a very nice sig pic, Lyratonks. Who's the artist? :)

I agree with Lyratonks. The way their deaths were mentioned, one sentence *BANG* oh and by the way, Lupin & Tonks were dead too really horrible to read it that way :(
But what you say is true too, still I think Lupin & Tonks deserved more :(

I dont remember who made the picture in Lyratonks' siggy either, but you can find it in my favourits on deviant art:
tess467.deviantart.com

In a weird way I found it blackly amusing. Tonks, the eternal klutz, goes into battle and not only gets herself killed but Remus Lupin too, a man who had survived all his battles before hooking up with her. Don't get me wrong, I really like the character but part of me can't help but think that the death of the happy couple was a little joke about her clumsiness.

In a weird way I found it blackly amusing. Tonks, the eternal klutz, goes into battle and not only gets herself killed but Remus Lupin too, a man who had survived all his battles before hooking up with her. Don't get me wrong, I really like the character but part of me can't help but think that the death of the happy couple was a little joke about her clumsiness.

I dont think Tonks joining the battle means that she caused Lupin to be killed. Lupin was taking part in the battle first, and Tonks joined later. As we arent given any details on their deaths (which I find sad and kind of unfortunate, as it seems kind of like an afterthought of JK's) we dont really know if they did ever end up fighting together or anything. We are just bluntly informed that they are dead. As for Lupin coming out of every prior fight alive, so did Mad-Eye, yet he was killed earlier during the story. It just shows that no one is invincible.


Anyways, Tonks and Lupin's deaths were terribly shocking to me. I never expected it, and it saddened me to think that Teddy would grow up without knowing such great parents. Also, it seems that Harry lost yet another role-model in his life (Lupin), which is also upsetting.

i think Tonk's death was terribly sad...as was Lupins. I always imagined that Lupin died first and he was already dead as she got to him...it was heart breaking to read and find out they had fallen...i really didn't think they would die...i thought Tonks at least would live....sigh but thye were brave in the way they fought...

i think Tonk's death was terribly sad...as was Lupins. I always imagined that Lupin died first and he was already dead as she got to him...it was heart breaking to read and find out they had fallen...i really didn't think they would die...i thought Tonks at least would live....sigh but thye were brave in the way they fought...

I agree. It was very sad. I too imagined that Tonks got to Remus just when he had died, and that whilst in complete shock, that Bellatrix struck Tonks down with the AK :sad:. I think it was better that they both died - it would have been more terrible if one had been left without the other. I hope that JKR writes or includes a death scene for Remus and Tonks in the Scottish Book. That would be lovely.

I agree. It was very sad. I too imagined that Tonks got to Remus just when he had died, and that whilst in complete shock, that Bellatrix struck Tonks down with the AK :sad:. I think it was better that they both died - it would have been more terrible if one had been left without the other. I hope that JKR writes or includes a death scene for Remus and Tonks in the Scottish Book. That would be lovely.
what do you mean in the Scottish book. I know that in versions of the His Dark Materials books, that some things are different some scenes are added, etc. But is it the same in Harry Potter? Because I have all the UK and all the US and I never found whole scenes in one that weren't in the other. I'm confuzzled! Please explain.

I agree with alot of the things that has been writen. In war people have to die. I was sad that they were killed but I to think they showed how brave they were by going and doing what they could. Tonk seemed to need to be by Remus. So they got to be together. It is not far to Teddy. He only has his Grandmother. But the rest are there for him. He will never be alone. .......I thought all the books were the some????

what do you mean in the Scottish book. I know that in versions of the His Dark Materials books, that some things are different some scenes are added, etc. But is it the same in Harry Potter? Because I have all the UK and all the US and I never found whole scenes in one that weren't in the other. I'm confuzzled! Please explain.

The Scottish book, is an alias for the Harry Potter encyclopedia JK may write, which would include lots of random HP information that we didnt get in the books, such as Dean's background, etc.

what do you mean in the Scottish book. I know that in versions of the His Dark Materials books, that some things are different some scenes are added, etc. But is it the same in Harry Potter? Because I have all the UK and all the US and I never found whole scenes in one that weren't in the other. I'm confuzzled! Please explain.

It's JK Rowling's name for the Harry Potter encyclopedia that she has said she'll probably be writing after a few years rest. She has said that she's probably going to put it inot two halves - one with all of the information that was not shared with us in the books, "deleted" scenes, extra character information etc. And the other section just purely factual and more about the Wizarding world. :) Hope that helps your confusion :)

Why did they both have to die???
It was so unessery, I thought there would be a battle scene or at least something. It was so unfair, Tonk's was such a fun character and she had just had baby Teddy! Her last moment should have been more dramitic as she was such a great character!

I didn't like how Tonks' (or Remus' for that matter) death was handled. It came across almost as if it were written as an afterthought. I know not that all deaths are dramatic, and that we didn't see it because Harry wasn't there at the time, but it still felt...under done to me.

Tonks was always so bright and full of life. A great character so I was really sad when she died (And Lupin too :no:).

It wasn't the same as some of the other deaths in the book though. It was so quick and nothing was really described so I don't think it ever sank in like until much later on.

agreed, i understand lupin dieing but i felt tonks should have made it out alive. She was mad eyes star pupil and she couldn't handle herself? Also her father was killed to...what a couple weeks for that family eh?

I was absolutely devestated because I SO wanted them to end up together and then also when I was reading and Tonks was going around trying desperately to find Lupin I was so afraid that he was going to die I had a bad feeling something was going to happen, and then of course in the manner that it was revealed it was such a terrible shock. I NEVER expected both of them to die and by that point after all the other terrible deaths it was kind of overwhelming. I thought who else is going to die I was terrified Ginny would be killed or Mrs Weasley like Sirius by Bellatrix. I was SO relieved and thought that at least they survived!

I loved that Tonks never gave up on her love for Lupin. I was excited when they got together in the end and thrilled when I found out that she was expecting.

For me the most memorable part is during the final battle, when Tonks got to the castle and she ran to find her husband Lupin and fight by his side. I thought it was beautiful. I would have done the same thing.

Somewhere in this thread I read that it would have better if one parent had lived and the other died. I honesty think that its better that they both died. I think that their death was important. They died for something that they both believed in. What a legacy to leave behind to their son. They died so their son could have a better tomorrow. I think it would have been harder if one parent had survived. I can't imagine seeing Tonks without Lupin at her side.

Mothers shouldn't have to die. But war is so unfair!

I don't know if it's been noted yet, but personally, I think that it was a very Lily-like thing to do, having Tonks and Lupin die just to make sure their son had a better life. I like it how they're lain side by side.

I'm glad they were side by side as well. But I was severly disappointed when I read about their deaths. It will always seem to me like JKR needed another family to feel the last strike of the war, and the Weasleys had already lost Fred, so Lupin and Tonks got to go instead.

Well, as my post says, I'm very disappointed. Lupin was finally happy again, having a child, and I don't think Tonks was in a bad mood here either - they both got what they wanted. Then they died. :no: *grumbles*

I sort of knew she would die along with Lupin...Teddy was bound to be portrayed as someone like Harry, only that he had relatives who were witches and wizards!

more than that.. i really couldnot digest why FRED died.. i loved fred and george characters... i expected percy to die.. but... still i couldnot understand why jk killed fred..

Yeah...couldn't she have killed Bill? Or Percy? She ruined a pair of twins. :upset:

Yeah...couldn't she have killed Bill? Or Percy? She ruined a pair of twins. :upset:
Yeah, I expected Percy to die saving a member of his family. But now Fred, Tonks, and Lupin are dead; three very noble people! :upset:

At least Lupin and Tonks died fighting side by side. It would be worse for only one to die because then they'd be separated from each other. Sort of like Fred and George :sad:.

They died for something that they both believed in. What a legacy to leave behind to their son.
I still think their son would have prefered his parents to be alive and well rather than be heroes. I know I would.

I still think their son would have prefered his parents to be alive and well rather than be heroes. I know I would.

Of course Teddy would prefer his parents to be alive, but it's probably good for him to know that when they died, they died as heroes. He would be well cared for because of Harry and Ginny, and I'm sure they would make sure that Teddy knew everything about his parents.

I miss Tonks and Lupin but like GrangerHermione said at least they died togther rather than seprated 4ever

Yeah, she so shouldn'nt have died! Teddy's going to miss his parents :upset:

It annoyed me a bit, and yeh, it did sound like a bit of a last-minute thing, like she was desperate to kill loads of characters...she could've at least left Remus with Teddy or Dora with Teddy...

I think it's so sad though....Remus was my fave....:upset:

But Dora's death was a bit out of place in the story, i thought..

Poor Teddy

I thought her death was really sudden and unexpected, just like Fred's. It really made me sad. :upset:

Most of all, I think that both Lupin and Tonks died like heroes and i'm sure that Teddy would be proud of them.

Yeah, she so shouldn'nt have died! Teddy's going to miss his parents :upset:

True, it is quite sad but at least Teddy will grow up knowing his parents died a hero's death and fought for what was right.

Harry grew up thinking his parents were killed in a car accident.

True, it is quite sad but at least Teddy will grow up knowing his parents died a hero's death and fought for what was right.

Harry grew up thinking his parents were killed in a car accident.
Good point. :tu: I wasn't considering that Harry thought his parents died in a car accident because the Dursleys lied to him. But Harry, as Teddy's godfather, would raise him making sure that he knew how nobly his parents had died. He would want Teddy to be proud of his parents and think of them as heores, especially after Harry himself grew up not knowing that his parenst were heroes.

you got it GrangerHermoine!

The good thing about Harry's upbringing being the madness that it was will in turn make him a better father/godfather. Harry will also treat Teddy with extra care considering how Sirius made him feel.

Harry's kids will benefit from his poor treatment as a child.

I was sad that Tonks died. Even though she wasn't like a main charector in the books she was still a cool charector.

I thought Nymphadora Tonks's death was sad as she just became a new mother. However, Harry is Godfather to her child.

I thought Nymphadora Tonks's death was sad as she just became a new mother. However, Harry is Godfather to her child.
I kind of wonder though if Tonks agreed to having Harry as the Godfather. Perhaps Remus talked Tonks into it, but Tonks had another person in mind.

I kind of wonder though if Tonks agreed to having Harry as the Godfather. Perhaps Remus talked Tonks into it, but Tonks had another person in mind.

I can't think of anyone else who Tonks would have wanted to be Godfather. I would guess that her and Remus decided together; perhaps it was Lupin's idea at first, but I doubt Tonks had a problem with it. I think they both really liked Harry, and trusted him a lot. (And he proved that it was a good choice; from what we see in the Epilogue, he seems like a wonderful Godfather.) Just my opinion, though :).

I can't think of anyone else who Tonks would have wanted to be Godfather. I would guess that her and Remus decided together; perhaps it was Lupin's idea at first, but I doubt Tonks had a problem with it. I think they both really liked Harry, and trusted him a lot. (And he proved that it was a good choice; from what we see in the Epilogue, he seems like a wonderful Godfather.) Just my opinion, though :).

Completely agree, :agree: I don't see either that Tonk's wouldn't have not wanted him to be Godfather. Lupin liked Harry, she liked Harry so it seems like a good choice to name him Godfather. :)

Yea I do agree that Tonks death was completely unnecessary. Shame to I liked her.

Tonks' death saddened me alot especially as she had just had a kid and married Lupin. But the death of both her and Lupin, to me, seemed cliche. Lovers dieing together :no: But their death was beautiful. Maybe not necessary but a good round off.

What's wrong with lovers dieing together? I actually think that if you die you should die with somebody you love. That way the last thing you'll probally see before you die is your loved one. That's the way James and Lily died and that's the way Remus and Tonks died. They may not have died in a good manner(no one does), but at least they were together.

What's wrong with lovers dieing together? I actually think that if you die you should die with somebody you love. That way the last thing you'll probally see before you die is your loved one. That's the way James and Lily died and that's the way Remus and Tonks died. They may not have died in a good manner(no one does), but at least they were together.

:agree:

Even though I was very sad that Tonks and Lupin died, it was a comforting thought to know that they died together. :) It was probably comforting to them as well to know that if they died, it would be side-by-side. IMO it would have been a lot more heart-wrenching if they had both died away from each other, or if only one died.

I can't think of anyone else who Tonks would have wanted to be Godfather. I would guess that her and Remus decided together; perhaps it was Lupin's idea at first, but I doubt Tonks had a problem with it. I think they both really liked Harry, and trusted him a lot. (And he proved that it was a good choice; from what we see in the Epilogue, he seems like a wonderful Godfather.) Just my opinion, though :).
I agree. :) I don't Tonks would have any objections to Harry being godfather to Teddy. In fact, I think she would want that. Both she and Remus liked him a lot and they knew that Harry would take good care of their son if they died.

It is sort of sad that Tonks had to die, but at lest her husband died with her.

:upset: I'm not sure why JKR killed off Tonks and Lupin. They were just finding a little happiness. There were other ways to bring the "reality" of the struggle between good and evil. The Creevy brothers and Fred were others I couldn't see a reason for killing off. And, what is the talk of "trade offs" where one or two characters have to die because another was allowed to live.

JKR could have killed off "unnamed" characters of the same age as the Creevy brothers and described their deaths and the shock of seeing children so young who had been killed in the battle. She could have killed off Grawp or some of the centaurs instead of Tonks and Lupin and Fred. I had a tear in my eye when I read of all the ones who were killed that we had grown to know throughout the series. It somehow didn't seem fair.:upset:

MC, Tonks had to die (along with Lupin) so Teddy could be seen as paralleled to Harry in the Epilogue. I think it also showed us just how ruthless Bellatrix is and how prejudiced pureblood fanatics are. She killed her own niece.

Hermione is my favorite character but I did think Tonks was great...She seemed like a fun person to be around, and it's clear from the Auror position that she was brave (why else take a job where you know you might die?).
I think the worst part, like some of you have said, is that Harry saw them dead and that was it. No explanation of what happened.... Now that I have read this discussion I can see the foreshadowing, but I would have liked to know more. Maybe not every detail because as someone else said, sometimes knowing all the details makes their deaths harder to bear/ even more sad. Still, since we don't know for now, I think once Tonks found out that Lupin was in the battle she ran off to find him. I would like to imagine that she did find him before he died and that either she jumped in front of him or he jumped in front to protect her- similar to James and Lily, the idea of sacrificing yourself to save the person you love. I know they were killed by different people, so even the idea of them facing DE's together, fighting for a better world for their son together, is good. As much as I did not like that they both had to die, I think it would not have worked if just one of them had died. Tonks would have been devastated if she had stayed behind to take care of little Teddy and then found out Lupin died in battle. Plus, I agree with several of you in that because she was an Auror and was also brave (she risked her life to be one of the 7 Potters as well as coming to the Ministry to fight in OotP...she was even part of Harry's guard in OotP which was risky), she would not have stayed behind. She wanted to help and if that meant she had to die, well at least Teddy grew up with a grandmother and godfather who could tell him about her and Lupin and show him the love he deserved.
I think Teddy even got a better deal than Harry, who knew no real details of his parents and had no real family until he was past the age of 11...Teddy would have known about his parents and how brave they were from the beginning. It's also better that they died and did not end up like the Longbottoms. Their being there physically but not mentally to be involved with Neville's life...I think that is much harder than them dying completely. It's like a tease for Neville...they are here but they aren't....you can see them but not really get to know them. I was sad for Teddy to be an orphan but I see the parallel and I like that we know he was well cared for.
As far as the war being real, I think the deaths of Fred, Collin Creevey, Tonks and Lupin made it real. Lots of other people have said the same thing, but I understand...in order for there to be peace and for Voldemort to die, some people had to die...it's sad that it had to be these characters but I would not have okay with it being McGonagoll or Dean or Luna...no matter who died, because we have come to care about the (good) main characters it would have been sad....
I hope JKR does do the encyclopedia...I would like to know more.

Excellent assessment on the subject, HermioneG05.

And just to clarify, since some people some ignorant to this fact, JKR revealed awhile ago Dolohov killed Lupin and Bellatrix killed Tonks.

I'm not going to lie---I totally cried when I read that she had died. I don't really think that it was necessary (also the same with Lupin's death, they were both so happy). I just really hope that when she went off looking for Lupin during the Final Battle that she found him and they died fighting side by side. She deserved at least that much.

I thought that her death was one of the worst. Her and Lupin were so cool!!! It's not fair!

I think that the point of her death along with Lupin's was that this kid would grow up without his parents, like Harry.

Nice girl, but really she had it coming.

Marrying a werewolf? Good grief.

I just really hope that when she went off looking for Lupin during the Final Battle that she found him and they died fighting side by side. She deserved at least that much.

I believe Jo did indeed say Lupin and Tonks were fighting side by side in a double duel against Dolohov and Bellatrix when they died. And yes, Phendrona, your point is correct. Teddy was supposed to mirror how Harry started out as at the beginning of the series, but in the former's case, he has a loving extended family to care for him.

As much as it shocked and saddened me, I think Tonks and Lupins (I think of them as one, since they were so much in love) deaths added a little more realism to the story. It would have be a little "fairy tale-ish." A battle that fierce would have claimed many lives on both sides. Also, as someone mentioned previously, being an Auror, Tonks would have been in the thick of the fighting, and, as a member of the Order, so would Lupin. So, it would not have been unexpected for many of the "good guys" to get killed.

Tonks was so full of life, and, she and Lupin were just getting their lives together with Teddy, and I think that's part of the reason that Harry coming across their bodies hit some of the way it did.

It was good literary technique, though,any way you look at it.

Honestly, I felt the Tonks' death was the most unnecessary in the novel. I saw the reasoning for each of the other mid major characters to die, but her death just really seems to serve little purpose. Even as a comparison to Harry, having little Teddy Lupin growing up w/o his parents doesn't equate because he still has Andromeda, Harry, and eventually Ginny. I think the point could have been made w/o killing Tonks.

I imagine that she was one of the two who got killed off when presumably Hagrid got the reprieve.

I think JKR said she killed off Lupin and Tonks instead of Mr. Weasley.

I think JKR said she killed off Lupin and Tonks instead of Mr. Weasley.

You're right. Mr Weasley was meant to die when he was attacked by the snake in OOTP, and Lupin and Tonks were not due to die in the original plan of DH.

Tonks is awesome. It is so sad they died. Lupin is pretty cool but he's cruel on himself. i never accpected them to die. poor nymphadora. poor dora. poor tonks.

Tonks and Lupin were awesome characters... It's a pity they died... :(
I think I wouldn't be so sad if there was not the baby, tho... :upset:
Poor Teddy! :upset:

It would have been even more aweful if only one of them died. Think about it; the love of your life never coming back and leaving you to raise your son alone. Heartbreaking. With both gone we know they're together in heaven, the afterlife, or wherever.

You know, now that I think about it, it's just terrible to even think one scenario is better than the other. Tonks and Lupin shouldn't have died! Damn the importance of Harry's lack of a father figure!

That would be sad. At least, we know that they are in peace together. The rest of the world, however, will have to deal with a double portion of sadness.

As much as it shocked and saddened me, I think Tonks and Lupins (I think of them as one, since they were so much in love) deaths added a little more realism to the story. It would have be a little "fairy tale-ish." A battle that fierce would have claimed many lives on both sides. Also, as someone mentioned previously, being an Auror, Tonks would have been in the thick of the fighting, and, as a member of the Order, so would Lupin. So, it would not have been unexpected for many of the "good guys" to get killed.

Tonks was so full of life, and, she and Lupin were just getting their lives together with Teddy, and I think that's part of the reason that Harry coming across their bodies hit some of the way it did.

It was good literary technique, though,any way you look at it.

I agree. Killing Tonks and Lupin is much more realistic, as you pointed out she was an Auror, a fighter, and according to what we know about her, she wasn't the type of person to stay behind and wait for help, and Lupin was an Order member. It was war, and good guys were unfortunatly expected to die.
I found their death very sad, and the saddest was that they left a newborn behind. I think it was the most shocking of it. Teddy was left as an orphan, but the big difference with Harry's childhood is that he was raised by a loving grand-mother, Harry Potter was his godfather and I guess he met a lot the Weasleys. :)

The thing I like about their deaths is that Harry didn't witness them!! Fred's death gives the reader a feel for the battle and that these witches and wizards for duelling with their lives on the line!! But its always seen from Harry's perspective and we can often forget about the battle raging on in the other parts of the school at the same time!! When we read that they are dead it reminds you that for once, it was just Harry against Voldemort, it was the Order + Allies Versus Voldemort's Death Eater Army with many people getting killed!! Seemed more like a proper war and battle in this way!!

I really wish Tonks and Lupin had more time to experience parenthood. They will never see their poor Teddy grow up, and I doubt either of them would come back as ghosts so there is definitely no chance of them ever seeing their child grow up. It was such a huge shock, it really rocked me.

I hate how we never find anything out about how Tonks & Lupin died.

That drives me nuts!

I hate how we never find anything out about how Tonks & Lupin died.

That drives me nuts!
I know how it feels :(

I hate how we never find anything out about how Tonks & Lupin died.

That drives me nuts!

Well if you go back to the book, Harry says he saw them laying on the ground, looking so peaceful that they might have been asleep. That to me suggests the AK. Harry doesn't say he see's blood and gore. But thats just my opinion, it could have been a number of things.

I agree with most here Tonks death among those of some others are pretty useless and especially with Remus and Tonks it seems as if she is trying to kill of as many as possible. Either kill of one of the two but not both.And they are not even shown dying or fighting just dead as if it did not matter at all.

I hate how we never find anything out about how Tonks & Lupin died.

That drives me nuts!

JKR has made it clear in post-Hallows interviews Lupin and Tonks died fighting Dolohov and Bellatrix side-by-side, and were killed by those two respectively. Tonks' (and Lupin's) deaths definitely served a purpose. With their deaths, we have come full circle. Teddy Lupin is, in a way, Epilogue!Harry, if perhaps with a better life. He is an embodiment of the Epilogue's message: even after war, things move on. They even improve sometimes. He parallels Harry, an orphan with a miserable life raised with no love or compassion. Teddy, however, grew up surrounded by love. Misery and prejudice will never go away (for the latter, Draco merely gives Harry a "curt nod" at Platform 9 and 3/4). That's not to say we can't try to make things better though. This is why I hate when people say they dislike the Epilogue. The point was not to give us this detail-ridden map of the universe. That's insignificant. The point was to get Jo's final message across: Harry's deepest desire was to have a family. He finally does. That, my friends, is what matters.

Originally Posted by mwbmis
Honestly, I felt the Tonks' death was the most unnecessary in the novel. I saw the reasoning for each of the other mid major characters to die, but her death just really seems to serve little purpose. Even as a comparison to Harry, having little Teddy Lupin growing up w/o his parents doesn't equate because he still has Andromeda, Harry, and eventually Ginny. I think the point could have been made w/o killing Tonks.

I imagine that she was one of the two who got killed off when presumably Hagrid got the reprieve.

I could think of more pointless deaths in DH like Collin or Hedwig or something. But anyway I think that the whole point is that the story comes full circle. Harry lost his parents and then had a very close relashionship with his godfather and it's the same with Teddy. Plus like someone above said it shows that it was war and everyone was vulnerable. I took Lupin's death harder than Tonks' to be honest. I was never too close to her except for the 5th book and in my opinion Tonks and Lupin never made that good a couple. But that's just what I have to say.

Lupin is a well drawn character with an air of sadness about him. I always thought he would meet a tragic end.

This is why I hate when people say they dislike the Epilogue.

Well, I dislike the Epilogue. :) I can see what the author intended and all that, but I don't care. I think it's poorly executed.

I feel that Tonks' death was a complete throw-away. It seems that JKR was going through after writing the battle and was like "oh no I forgot about Tonks" and just threw her in among the dead. Completely unnessisary and out of character IMHO.

-JR

maybe when JKR was writing the battle she just knew there would be a lot of casualties and decided just to go with it. In a battle like that lots of people would die, on both sides, and some of them had to be better known to Harry (and us) than others. She couldnt just write lots of insignificant deaths that would hardly effect us or Harry. Its knowing so many people are dying, both strangers and friends; and that another child (Teddy) has been left, like Harry, like Neville and many others, with a very tragic start in life, that gives Harry the strength to face Voldemort in the Forbidden Forest. :relax:

Yes. In a near mad fighting scenario where spells are bouncing all over the place, it can only be expected that people will die. Good or bad, hated or favourable, people will die. Tonks appears to be the type of witch that will happily pull out her wand and duel a couple of people for the sake of the world. This pulls her closer to the centre of the battle and increases the chance of her being one of the unlucky many that are killed. At least she died doing something she wanted. And she died with Remus too.

Yes. In a near mad fighting scenario where spells are bouncing all over the place, it can only be expected that people will die. Good or bad, hated or favourable, people will die. Tonks appears to be the type of witch that will happily pull out her wand and duel a couple of people for the sake of the world. This pulls her closer to the centre of the battle and increases the chance of her being one of the unlucky many that are killed. At least she died doing something she wanted. And she died with Remus too.


Do we know she died with Remus? I know they were lain together, but is there anything to suggest they died in relatively the same area? One or the other could have died right off and the other went into a cursing rage and was killed for all we know...

-JR

"...Lupin and Tonks really caused me a lot of pain. [They] were two who were killed who I had intended to keep alive. ... It's like an exchange of hostages, isn't it? And I kept Mr. Weasley alive. He was slated to die in the very, very original draft of the story."

USA Today Interview, July 25, 2007

"I wanted there to be an echo of what happened to Harry just to show the absolute evil of what Voldemort's doing. The fact that you leave orphans and you leave children who then have to make their way in the world uncared for and unprotected. And so that's why I killed the two that, you know, you know about in this book. To hear that Teddy Lupin - Lupin's son is obviously okay. That he has an ongoing relationship with Harry and that he's - he must be quite happy and he's got a very good-looking girlfriend because I think he's kissing in the epilogue his - Bill and Fleur's eldest daughter ... He's been orphaned. And I want - I want to show that he's okay. And I want to show that because the world is a better place, he's having a happier... and then I started to cry. So obviously Teddy Lupin's very important to me. I just... yeah. I... having killed both his parents, I really wanted him to be okay."

TodayShow/Dateline NBC Interviews July 29, 2007

Teddy was raised by Andromeda.

Remus was killed by Dolohov and Tonks by Bellatrix.

[Teddy Lupin is] a Metamorphmagus like his mother.

Bloomsbury Online Chat July 30, 2007

Yes. In a near mad fighting scenario where spells are bouncing all over the place, it can only be expected that people will die. Good or bad, hated or favourable, people will die. Tonks appears to be the type of witch that will happily pull out her wand and duel a couple of people for the sake of the world. This pulls her closer to the centre of the battle and increases the chance of her being one of the unlucky many that are killed. At least she died doing something she wanted. And she died with Remus too.
This is a really good point, she died likely because of her bravery and because of her love for her son. In essense, she made the same sacrafice as Lily, although less obviously.. do you think it could have invoked the same magical protection for Teddy as Lily created for Harry? Or does the sacrafice have to be more obvious?

This is a really good point, she died likely because of her bravery and because of her love for her son. In essense, she made the same sacrafice as Lily, although less obviously.. do you think it could have invoked the same magical protection for Teddy as Lily created for Harry? Or does the sacrafice have to be more obvious?

I think the sacrafice needs to be more obvious. Good theory, but if it's so easy to do this magic, a good amount of people would be protected. It's old magic you need to know and also how to use.

I think the sacrafice needs to be more obvious. Good theory, but if it's so easy to do this magic, a good amount of people would be protected. It's old magic you need to know and also how to use.
This is probably slightly off topic, but I was thinking about this.. I know the situation is unusual but I'm sure many parents would sacrafice themselves for their children so the magic that protected Harry doesn't seem that unusual. Particularly during Voldemorts reign as families were targeted. Was the magical protection something that just happened or did Lily have to perform a spell?
In the final battle Harry's sacrafice gave everyone that same protection, however, many people were killed and presumably their motivations for fighting were to protect their famlies, protect their friends? So in some ways they made that same sacrafice.

This is probably slightly off topic, but I was thinking about this.. I know the situation is unusual but I'm sure many parents would sacrafice themselves for their children so the magic that protected Harry doesn't seem that unusual. Particularly during Voldemorts reign as families were targeted. Was the magical protection something that just happened or did Lily have to perform a spell?
In the final battle Harry's sacrafice gave everyone that same protection, however, many people were killed and presumably their motivations for fighting were to protect their famlies, protect their friends? So in some ways they made that same sacrafice.

What you are saying makes sense but it sounds a bit easy to do it. I don't know whether she needed to perform a spell to protect Harry. I don't think so. It's surely the magic deep inside that made it. Lily made a choice. Die for her only son. If everyone can sacrafice theirselves and thus protect their families, Lily's sacrafice doesn't sound that unusual anymore.

What you are saying makes sense but it sounds a bit easy to do it. I don't know whether she needed to perform a spell to protect Harry. I don't think so. It's surely the magic deep inside that made it. Lily made a choice. Die for her only son. If everyone can sacrafice theirselves and thus protect their families, Lily's sacrafice doesn't sound that unusual anymore.

I think that Lily (like Harry in the forest) made a conscious decision to sacrafice herself for her son and therefore invoked in him a magical protection. Tonks and all the others that died in the battle of Hogwarts did die for the people they loved but they did not intend to die. So I think you're right, Lily's sacrafice was unusual and special so in that way Tonks was different.

I think that Lily (like Harry in the forest) made a conscious decision to sacrafice herself for her son and therefore invoked in him a magical protection. Tonks and all the others that died in the battle of Hogwarts did die for the people they loved but they did not intend to die. So I think you're right, Lily's sacrafice was unusual and special so in that way Tonks was different.

Well put ;)

Yes Tonks' and Lupin's death could have a bit more lines.This way it seems like an afterthought which means it less important then it was.

You're right. Mr Weasley was meant to die when he was attacked by the snake in OOTP, and Lupin and Tonks were not due to die in the original plan of DH.

I realize I'm quoting a post a couple of years old ;-) but one thing that's always bothered me about JKR quotes like these (this isn't directed at you, hauntingme!) is that they make me want to ask her if there's some requisite-but-arbitrary death count that has to be met. I get the "it's a war, people have to die" argument to a certain extent, but the "__ didn't die so ___ has to die instead" line is just so totally foreign to me. What are these characters, interchangeable? The only standpoint I can understand it from is if she's essentially saying that someone "important" has to die in order for the reader to fully understand the stakes of the war, but Tonks and Lupin's deaths weren't well executed. At all. I really loved Lupin as a character, but the way his death was presented was so lackluster that I almost just didn't care. I wonder why she even bothered killing off those two if she wasn't going to make it have a real impact on the reader and/or Harry.

I know one theory that's been thrown out there quite a bit is that Tonks and Lupin had to die so that their kid would be in in a Harry-like place, but we're not really given any reason to care about that either.

I realize I'm quoting a post a couple of years old ;-) but one thing that's always bothered me about JKR quotes like these (this isn't directed at you, hauntingme!) is that they make me want to ask her if there's some requisite-but-arbitrary death count that has to be met. I get the "it's a war, people have to die" argument to a certain extent, but the "__ didn't die so ___ has to die instead" line is just so totally foreign to me. What are these characters, interchangeable? The only standpoint I can understand it from is if she's essentially saying that someone "important" has to die in order for the reader to fully understand the stakes of the war, but Tonks and Lupin's deaths weren't well executed. At all. I really loved Lupin as a character, but the way his death was presented was so lackluster that I almost just didn't care. I wonder why she even bothered killing off those two if she wasn't going to make it have a real impact on the reader and/or Harry.

I know one theory that's been thrown out there quite a bit is that Tonks and Lupin had to die so that their kid would be in in a Harry-like place, but we're not really given any reason to care about that either.

Obviously the reason Lupin had to die was so he could take his proper place with Sirius, James, and Lily when Harry used the Resurrection Stone. Killing Tonks to make a well-reared orphan is just -- actually I'm stumped by the whole thing.:hmm:

It was entirely unneeded. It would have been so much better if only Lupin had died and Tonks raised Ted, though sadly, alone. The same effect would have been generated.

In the most literal sense of the prase, overkill.

I agree. It's clear JKR hates father figures because she kills them off left & right. But she genreally leaves the women...

Rowling doesn't hate father figures, guys. She's killed people closest to Harry to demonstrate the evil that is Lord Voldemort. Having Harry lose his parents, Sirius, Dumbledore (although he's more of a mentor but still close to Harry), and Lupin emphasizes the evil that is in the world. She's showing that with a villian like Voldemort, people die. I remember Jo stating that she hated killing Sirius off because her husband was angry about it as Sirius was his favorite character.

As for Lupin and Tonks, I can see why Jo did that. She wanted the story to come full circle with their deaths. The only difference is that Teddy grows up in a world much different than Harry did. He grows up in a world of love. Yes, I'm sure Teddy misses his parents and wonders about them, but that's what Harry's for. I agree that the deaths were unfair, but that's what happens in a war. People you love die. That's what Jo signifies with her series.

This death just made me so sad. I could not BELIEVE it when I saw that JK had killed off Tonks. She was one of my favorite characters. Tonks was so young! Wed to the man of her dreams, had a little baby, then died in combat. She could have done so much more in the books.
I understand people may not really care that she died (since she was not a huge part in the story), but she was still a contributing member of the order, and a good friend to Harry.
I don't like her killing the Hufflepuffs. Let's see some Slytherins go down :) Just kidding!

Rowling doesn't hate father figures, guys. She's killed people closest to Harry to demonstrate the evil that is Lord Voldemort. Having Harry lose his parents, Sirius, Dumbledore (although he's more of a mentor but still close to Harry), and Lupin emphasizes the evil that is in the world. She's showing that with a villian like Voldemort, people die. I remember Jo stating that she hated killing Sirius off because her husband was angry about it as Sirius was her favorite character.

Sirius was her favorite character? I've never heard her say that before; I thought she liked the trio the most. Or did you mean his?

As for Lupin and Tonks, I can see why Jo did that. She wanted the story to come full circle with their deaths. The only difference is that Teddy grows up in a world much different than Harry did. He grows up in a world of love.

I thought it just seemed sort of pointless considering we don't really hear much about Teddy. Killing off characters to make a point and then not really follow through on that point doesn't make sense to me.

What you are saying makes sense but it sounds a bit easy to do it. I don't know whether she needed to perform a spell to protect Harry. I don't think so. It's surely the magic deep inside that made it. Lily made a choice. Die for her only son. If everyone can sacrafice theirselves and thus protect their families, Lily's sacrafice doesn't sound that unusual anymore.I think in most cases, Voldemort and his followers didn't give people a chance to live. Lily was given a chance to live and gave it up for Harry, which is a different scenario than what would normally have happened.
This death just made me so sad. I could not BELIEVE it when I saw that JK had killed off Tonks. She was one of my favorite characters. Tonks was so young! Wed to the man of her dreams, had a little baby, then died in combat. She could have done so much more in the books. I understand people may not really care that she died (since she was not a huge part in the story), but she was still a contributing member of the order, and a good friend to Harry.When I read DH, I didn't even notice that Tonks and Lupin had died until Lupin showed up in the ressurection stone. I had to go back and read the battle two or three times until I found the one sentence dedicated to their deaths. I did care that she died, because Tonks was a unique and engaging character, but my real disappointment was that she didn't get a death scene.

When I read DH, I didn't even notice that Tonks and Lupin had died until Lupin showed up in the ressurection stone. I had to go back and read the battle two or three times until I found the one sentence dedicated to their deaths. I did care that she died, because Tonks was a unique and engaging character, but my real disappointment was that she didn't get a death scene.

I think the reason she didn't get a death scene was that JKR was kind of illustrating the stunning coldness of death. In real life, most people don't get "big moments." They just die. :(

Personally, I find it just so stunning - and for me, probably sadder - just to see new parents Lupin and Tonks lying there dead together and not really knowing how they died. For me, it's so much more poignant in a way. Honestly, I think the off-page deaths - including Colin Creevy's - hit me the hardest. Well, except for Fred's death. :upset:

Ok first post on quite a sensitive subject. Hi guys btw!

Personally I think the death of Tonks was necessary. It is all part of the reason Harry was able to willingly walk to his death, to stop the evil from spreading. Teddy is just one of the characters who became an orphan because of Lord Voldermort. So much loss of innocent people gave Harry the courage to never give up and eventually walk to his death to save the world along with the people he loves. I think the moment he steps into the Great Hall and can see the bodies of the people he loved who scarificed themselves to help create a better world he accepts that he has to do what he has to do. You could argue the death of Colin Creevey was not needed but it all adds up to the reality of the war on terror.

Sirius was her favorite character? I've never heard her say that before; I thought she liked the trio the most. Or did you mean his?



I thought it just seemed sort of pointless considering we don't really hear much about Teddy. Killing off characters to make a point and then not really follow through on that point doesn't make sense to me.

I meant that he was her husband's favorite character. I changed it.

I think the reason we don't hear much about Teddy is because it's all about Harry's search for the Horcruxes. Had it not been about that, I'm sure we would've heard more about Teddy and his life. But I think what makes these death so real is the fact that Teddy has someone who he can confide in and who knows where he's been. Harry grew up without parents and can relate to Teddy in that way. Harry had no one to confide in about this as the Dursleys never spoke about Harry's parents in their home.

Ok first post on quite a sensitive subject. Hi guys btw!

Personally I think the death of Tonks was necessary. It is all part of the reason Harry was able to willingly walk to his death, to stop the evil from spreading. Teddy is just one of the characters who became an orphan because of Lord Voldermort. So much loss of innocent people gave Harry the courage to never give up and eventually walk to his death to save the world along with the people he loves. I think the moment he steps into the Great Hall and can see the bodies of the people he loved who scarificed themselves to help create a better world he accepts that he has to do what he has to do. You could argue the death of Colin Creevey was not needed but it all adds up to the reality of the war on terror.

I really did not understand why Tonks and Lupin both were killed but this helps a little bit, I guess it was to really make clear the evil that Harry had to fight, and I agree that their deaths along with others helped Harry make the choices he had to make. And I was so sad when Colin died by the way, :P