Severus Snape's Death

I appreciate the comment.

but here is a question:

Did Snape TRULY love Lily?

I could go either way with this question.

if he truly did love Lily, I don't think he would have ever called Lily a Mudblood. I also think he would have done everything in his power to make things right with her, which would consist of leaving his DE friends in the dust.

Perhaps it is possible he didn't realize how much he did truly love her until her life was in danger.

maybe he loved her all along. After all he did die for her son!

I don't think anyone can truly understand Snape unless your name is JK Rowling. To love and to have lost isn't enough.

My boyfriend and I call each other all sorts on the odd occasion we have an argument. His calling her a mudblood does not mean he didn't love her. The problem was that he was young and confused and didn't deal with things that well. It is not so black and white as to say that he wouldn't have called mudblood if he really loved her, love does not work like that and the post I have quoted is consequently quite naive. I feel that Sev never really received any love himself from anyone so he couldn't be expected to understand what he felt at that age. It is ok to say that he ought to broke from his friends for her, but in reality they made him feel worth something and important, and it is not easy to give that feeling up. Likewise, Lily called herself his best friend, therefore she ought to have perservered more with him. Love aside she was just as bad as him in failing to show loyalty. Who among us would honestly allow our best friend to slide into that world? I would stalk and nag them until the day I died.

Anyone can defend those who love them, Severus Snape died defending those who hated him

The death was extremely shocking to me. I never expected that Snape was good all this time...

[QUOTE=cabepfir;4674144]I've had the same feeling that she tried to turn down all the attention focused on Snape at the end of HBP.QUOTE]

I agree. In one interview JKR said that she didn't understand why people loved Snape [except for the bad boy syndrome, nothing wrong with that though right?], and she listed all of his bad points again.

Probably because he was based on an actual mean teacher that she had, she might have resented all his fame - and if she was hoping to shock people with the twist at the end, it would have been better for her if we hated the character.

[QUOTE=cabepfir;4674144]I've had the same feeling that she tried to turn down all the attention focused on Snape at the end of HBP.QUOTE]

I agree. In one interview JKR said that she didn't understand why people loved Snape [except for the bad boy syndrome, nothing wrong with that though right?], and she listed all of his bad points again.

Probably because he was based on an actual mean teacher that she had, she might have resented all his fame - and if she was hoping to shock people with the twist at the end, it would have been better for her if we hated the character.


I must've never seen this interview! I've always liked Snape. He was a mean teacher, but so much fun to read and to try and understand. He never did anything bad up until killing Dumbledore, but even then I more or less (as many others did) guessed why he did it.

His death was very shocking very undignified. I knew from the get go that he will die by the end of DH, but I never imagined it would be like that. Like a useless rag that Riddle used to wipe his nose. I cannot say I do not see the genious of the writing and of the effect it had on me, but I do not have to like it damnit! Severus deserved much better.

Subject for another thread I know, but Harry's kid's middle name Severus was very endearing and quiet touching. Finally Harry gets how tormented Snape was and how big his love was.

Do you think Snape would've hated James at all if he did not think James and Lilly are getting close? Don't think so. At the bottom of all his evils (being a DE and all) Severus had a big love that drove him to do everyting he did.

RIP Sev.

Outraged ! one word to describe how i felt about Snapes death !
Severus Snape...killer of Albus Dumbledore the greatest wizard of the generation, had a book named for him, Everyone was confused about where his trust lied, was snape good or evil ? No one knew and I was expecting Snape to be one of the MAIN characters and not some guy who gets killed by a snake that has not much importance besides being a horcrux !

Snape in my opinion was an extremely powerful wizard and I expected MUCH MUCH more from his character in the DH....

By far the biggest let down of the book.

Snape didn't die in some heroic death in battle because Snape kept his cover till the very end.... he did it ALL for Lily! That's why Snape is the bravest man Harry's ever known. To the very end of his life Snape kept his cover even when his life was on the line. Snape would rather have died having no one know all he did for the good side, then blow his cover and risk Dumbledore's plan....

Do you really think Harry would have believed Snape if Snape came running up to him telling Harry that he was really on Dumbledore's side, that Dumbledore's death was planned, that he was a good guy who loved Harry's mom and now Harry had to go and get himself killed because he was a horcrux...?

If anything Harry would have probably tried to kill Snape as soon as he saw him. I think the only way Harry would have ever truly trusted Snape would have been to see it for himself (which he did through the pensieve). Harry had to see why Dumbledore trusted Snape all of these years. Harry had to see how much Snape loved Lily. THAT is what made Harry trust Snape and what made Harry realize that he had to die.

Snape was trying to run and get Harry when he was in the shack. He kept telling Voldemort that he would go get him, but his real plan was to reveal his true alliance to Harry at that time, I just wonder if Snape really would have told Harry about his love for Lily... the one thing Snape never wanted anyone to know and the only thing that really truly proves he was a "good guy" and the whole reason Dumbledore trust him.

As sad as it is for me to read Snapes death and his dieing words... his last wish to look into the eyes of the woman he loved and the woman he devoted his life to, I personally think his death was handled very well. It was very poetic, very sad and very powerful especially after you read "The The Prince's Tale" and it all comes together.

The way Snape died also showed the down-right nastiness of Voldemort. Voldemort would kill his most loyal, "second-hand-man" and I wonder if Snape felt his life was not in danger because of that...

I personally feel if Snape would have died saving Harry or revealing himself in battle as a good guy it would have been overkill. The way JKR wrote it made Snape's life and death that much more sad, moving and heroic....

Snape didn't die in some heroic death in battle because Snape kept his cover till the very end.... he did it ALL for Lily! That's why Snape is the bravest man Harry's ever known. To the very end of his life Snape kept his cover even when his life was on the line. Snape would rather have died having no one know all he did for the good side, then blow his cover and risk Dumbledore's plan....

Do you really think Harry would have believed Snape if Snape came running up to him telling Harry that he was really on Dumbledore's side, that Dumbledore's death was planned, that he was a good guy who loved Harry's mom and now Harry had to go and get himself killed because he was a horcrux...?

If anything Harry would have probably tried to kill Snape as soon as he saw him. I think the only way Harry would have ever truly trusted Snape would have been to see it for himself (which he did through the pensieve). Harry had to see why Dumbledore trusted Snape all of these years. Harry had to see how much Snape loved Lily. THAT is what made Harry trust Snape and what made Harry realize that he had to die.

Snape was trying to run and get Harry when he was in the shack. He kept telling Voldemort that he would go get him, but his real plan was to reveal his true alliance to Harry at that time, I just wonder if Snape really would have told Harry about his love for Lily... the one thing Snape never wanted anyone to know and the only thing that really truly proves he was a "good guy" and the whole reason Dumbledore trust him.

As sad as it is for me to read Snapes death and his dieing words... his last wish to look into the eyes of the woman he loved and the woman he devoted his life to, I personally think his death was handled very well. It was very poetic, very sad and very powerful especially after you read "The The Prince's Tale" and it all comes together.

The way Snape died also showed the down-right nastiness of Voldemort. Voldemort would kill his most loyal, "second-hand-man" and I wonder if Snape felt his life was not in danger because of that...

I personally feel if Snape would have died saving Harry or revealing himself in battle as a good guy it would have been overkill. The way JKR wrote it made Snape's life and death that much more sad, moving and heroic....Like I said before, the tragedy of Severus Snape was not how he died, but how he lived. Snape's entire life was almost a complete lie to everyone but himself and Dumbledore. Snape did all he could to protect Harry right up to his dying minute. For Snape to blow his cover, blast Voldemort unconscious, take Harry and run, and then get killed somewhere else would have taken away from the story of Snape's live.

Snape never wore his emotions on his sleeve, it's canon, and when Snape died fighting for Harry and therefore fighting for Lily it made his death that much more upsetting. He died under cover, and would have been perfectly happy revealing his true intention to no one.

One thing I find interesting: what compelled Harry to kneel at Snape's side? Harry thought that this was the horrible man who killed Dumbledore, the man who had made Hogwarts so hard for his friends in the past year. The vile teacher who had been so harsh to him for 6 years. Why would Harry kneel at his side while he was dying? What did Harry feel? Hermione or Ron didn't come over to see Snape they stayed almost in the tunnel. It seemed Harry forgave Snape in his dying moment because he too had fallen victim to Voldemort.

One thing I find interesting: what compelled Harry to kneel at Snape's side? Harry thought that this was the horrible man who killed Dumbledore, the man who had made Hogwarts so hard for his friends in the past year. The vile teacher who had been so harsh to him for 6 years. Why would Harry kneel at his side while he was dying? What did Harry feel? Hermione or Ron didn't come over to see Snape they stayed almost in the tunnel. It seemed Harry forgave Snape in his dying moment because he too had fallen victim to Voldemort.

Harry even says he's not sure why he went to Snape, the man he hated...

My immediate feeling was the Harry wanted to stand over Snape, the dieing man that Harry truly hated. Almost like Harry wanted Snape's last image to be Harry... someone who hated him and felt no sympathy for this dieing man, but at the same time I think Harry was in a way a bit shocked to see the manner in which Snape was dieing....

BUT, I think Harry soon realized Snape was struggling and panicking, not because he was dieing but because Snape was desperate to tell Harry something. I think Harry saw it in his eyes and knew there was something going on and I think as soon as Snape's memory started to "leak out" begging Harry to "take it" both Harry and Hermione (who conjured the flask) realized there was something deeply important to see.

The way Snape died also showed the down-right nastiness of Voldemort. Voldemort would kill his most loyal, "second-hand-man" and I wonder if Snape felt his life was not in danger because of that...

I personally feel if Snape would have died saving Harry or revealing himself in battle as a good guy it would have been overkill. The way JKR wrote it made Snape's life and death that much more sad, moving and heroic....

I think Snape's death by Voldemort's hand is JKR's way of reinforcing what is already known of Voldemort's unscrupulous nature and "he will do anything to advance himself".

Although I feel poignant regret for the life Snape has led and his undying resilient love for Lily, his death before Harry knows the truth is timely. At least he retain his dignified, unyielding composure that he is so well-known for.

i saw it coming....and it was sad because he wanted harry to look at him so he could see lily's eyes before he died.

Harry even says he's not sure why he went to Snape, the man he hated...

My immediate feeling was the Harry wanted to stand over Snape, the dieing man that Harry truly hated. Almost like Harry wanted Snape's last image to be Harry... someone who hated him and felt no sympathy for this dieing man, but at the same time I think Harry was in a way a bit shocked to see the manner in which Snape was dieing....

BUT, I think Harry soon realized Snape was struggling and panicking, not because he was dieing but because Snape was desperate to tell Harry something. I think Harry saw it in his eyes and knew there was something going on and I think as soon as Snape's memory started to "leak out" begging Harry to "take it" both Harry and Hermione (who conjured the flask) realized there was something deeply important to see.It was definitely obvious that Snape had to tell Harry something when he grabbed the front of Harry's robes. And other than wanting to see Snape lying on the floor dying, do I see any reason for Harry to have come out of the tunnel. Sure it moves the story along, it was just an odd happenstance to see Harry come out and kneel, almost respect the man who he hated. But it was evident to Harry that these memories were important, why else would Snape pour them with his dying breath? The way we see Harry running to Dumbledore's office and falling into these memories shows that Harry knew there was something important about them.

Wow, I guess I'm the only one who didn't want/think he should die. Harry had lost every father-figure who meant anything to him. Dumbledore, James, Serius, Lupin and to me, once he saw the memories it was just one more blow for him. I would have loved to have seen Harry and Snape make peace and finally give Harry somebody to look up to. I guess they made peace when he told Harry to look at him....I don't know....just a thought.

youknowpoo2, I cannot ever, under any circumstances, see Harry and Snape build a good relationship. Not even after seeing the memories. They may have become cordial to one another, but Snape would have forever regretted Harry knowing the truth about him. The way it happened allowed Harry to see the truth that DD had kept for Snape and allowed Snape to give Harry the final piece of the puzzle without ever having to live with Harry knowing the truth. And that just makes it all the more sad; Snape dying, never knowing love. Tragic.

Wow, I guess I'm the only one who didn't want/think he should die. Harry had lost every father-figure who meant anything to him. Dumbledore, James, Serius, Lupin and to me, once he saw the memories it was just one more blow for him. I would have loved to have seen Harry and Snape make peace and finally give Harry somebody to look up to. I guess they made peace when he told Harry to look at him....I don't know....just a thought.
The best way for Harry to take the memories he saw was for Snape to be dead when he saw them.

If Harry had seen them while Snape was alive, Harry might have had different feelings, such as how Snape never cared about Harry and James and only Lily. Harry could have expanded on that point. And if Snape just willingly handed over the memories, not on his deathbed, then Harry would have had a suspicion that they were tampered with, and Snape had only wanted Harry to die that way Voldemort could finally get him out of the way. With Snape dying, and showing Harry the memory of Dumbledore telling Snape that Harry had to die, Harry knew that it was not for Snape's own benefit, but truly what Dumbledore had wanted him to do.

If Snape had been alive, Harry would have had trouble believing his cold and vile Potions Master had once loved his own mother. Harry would have had trouble believing many of the memories he saw with the lingering presence of Snape.

I wanted for him to have a noble death. He had just spent a year with people believing him to have murdered Dumbledore, and I would have liked for him to prove them wrong.

And the Prince's Tale was absolutely gut-wrenching.

I wanted for him to have a noble death. He had just spent a year with people believing him to have murdered Dumbledore, and I would have liked for him to prove them wrong.

And the Prince's Tale was absolutely gut-wrenching.

i know the only time i cried during the book was in that chapter! and i cried from start to finish!! i'm so glad jkr answered my question about snape and lily!
R.I.P Severus Snape!

lordgodric, you and I seem to be on the same page. It seems to me that the ONLY way for Harry to see AND believe the truth about Snape is the way it happened. I still didn't like it and rue the loss of such a complex character. And it showed how little LV valued anything or anyone.

I can't see Harry and Snape ever having a "relationship" either...but it would have been nice for Harry to know that someone was looking out for him...much like Serius did. I can't see them being loving toward one another - there's too much history but after all, he did name his son after him.

lordgodric, you and I seem to be on the same page. It seems to me that the ONLY way for Harry to see AND believe the truth about Snape is the way it happened. I still didn't like it and rue the loss of such a complex character. And it showed how little LV valued anything or anyone.

yeh i see your point.:tu:
actually i agree with you. i can't imagin another way to explain to harry

it's been said in this thread; who can truly imagine the two of them sitting over a cuppa and discussing Sev's reasons for being on DD's side? Harry would have jinxed him in a heart beat. at it was, it took all he could not to do it in the castle while walking with McGonaggal.

I guess I was just so torn up over the whole "memory" thing that his death was too much. Knowing how he had secretly always cared for Harry...It was so sad. RIP Snape....Professor Snape.

I think Snape's death by Voldemort's hand is JKR's way of reinforcing what is already known of Voldemort's unscrupulous nature and "he will do anything to advance himself".

Although I feel poignant regret for the life Snape has led and his undying resilient love for Lily, his death before Harry knows the truth is timely. At least he retain his dignified, unyielding composure that he is so well-known for.


Exactly. It's tragic that Snape doesn't get to take a last stand, and dies in such a mundane fashion but not surprising in view of Voldemort's character.
Voldemort only valued his servants to the extent that he could use them. When he thought Snape was the master of the Elder wand, he killed Snape because he believed it would make him the Master of the Elder Wand. At that point, Snape was more useful to him dead - so he disposed of him with very little "regret".

The fact that Snape gives Harry all of those memories, and not just the ones immediately relevant to the mission (the information about the Elder wand, for example, and the fact that Harry was predestined to die), I think is important:

- He gives Harry a gift - a chance to see a very cherished memory of Lily in life.

- He gives Harry a chance to see himself - with all his flaws. He doesn't hide anything about what he did. He shows Harry his own complicity in revealing the prophesy which lead indirectly to James' and Lily's deaths, and that he hadn't cared if James and Harry died. That's not a very nice thing to reveal, but the important point was that Harry got to see what Snape risked and sacrificed to make sure that he was kept safe nonetheless. Snape chose to protect Harry for her and never revealed "the best of him".

- Snape never revealed his emotions in life, but Harry gets to see Snape's heart and to know that it was his for Harry's mother that saved his soul.

Snape chose to protect Harry for her and never revealed "the best of him".
That I think is the entire tragedy of Snape summed up. he never let anyone see the best of him, not Lily, not the Death Eaters, not any of his colleagues, and not Harry. And because of that he died in the eyes of many as a traitor, although Snape knew that he wasn't one himself.

That I think is the entire tragedy of Snape summed up. he never let anyone see the best of him, not Lily, not the Death Eaters, not any of his colleagues, and not Harry. And because of that he died in the eyes of many as a traitor, although Snape knew that he wasn't one himself.

i think thats what makes me so upset lol! He never cared what anyone thought of him as long he paid back he debt and love towards lily!

i was shocked that he died at the hand of voldemort. i always believed he was good. although i could never be 100% i thought he might come in useful and help harry in the end. i was shocked that he died and very upset when harry witnessed his memories. he was truely a hero.

i was shocked that he died at the hand of voldemort. i always believed he was good. although i could never be 100% i thought he might come in useful and help harry in the end. i was shocked that he died and very upset when harry witnessed his memories. he was truely a hero.

I need a HERO!!!! (shreik 2 theme tune!)

I can see the points of Neptune and Lord Godric, and understand a bit more why from the perspective of narrative Snape's death had to come like that.

Still, am I missing something if I say that I expected much more from Snape in the whole book? Which was the true importance of the Advanced Potion Making book? Just to make us see how good a wizard was Snape when he was still 16, or to stress that Snape and Lily must have been studying Potions together, if Slughorn always takes Harry's brand new skill with Lily's? And the whole "Half-Blood Prince" thing: just a nickname? Making Snape like the eponymous hero of the sixth book, and then? 30 pages in the seventh book?

But I can totally see the narrative "need" of killing Snape. I wondered too about the possible retroactive jealousy of Harry towards Snape if he'd survived. Figuring out an eventual survival of Snape was much, much more difficult.

Still, am I missing something if I say that I expected much more from Snape in the whole book? Which was the true importance of the Advanced Potion Making book? Just to make us see how good a wizard was Snape when he was still 16, or to stress that Snape and Lily must have been studying Potions together, if Slughorn always takes Harry's brand new skill with Lily's? And the whole "Half-Blood Prince" thing: just a nickname? Making Snape like the eponymous hero of the sixth book, and then? 30 pages in the seventh book?


It's a consequence of the narrative voice Rowling has chosen to tell the story. We only see what Harry sees, and as the murderer of Dumbledore and Voldemort's right hand man, Snape has no business being where Harry is.

We do get another chapter like Spinner's End, without Harry, and after that we only know what Snape is up to if we read carefully and pick up on clues. He's actually smack in the middle of the Seven Potters plan, the bit with the real and fake sword, the Doe (obviously), and we hear about his actions at Hogwarts. And then he gets his own chapter where it is all explained to Harry and the reader.

I think the HBP plotline is supposed to help us believe that Harry could see past his bad history with Snape and understand the memories. The boy he saw, after all, is his mysterious friend from last year.

I think that Snape *needed* to die... I mean, what kind of life would he possibly have after? I don't think he would have ever had any peace, and after killing Dumbledore, even if he'd asked him to, and doing various nasty things including aiding and abetting Death Eaters, I doubt that trying to protect Harry would have gotten him a reprieve with the Wizengamot. I don't think he would have found peace afterwards... and it would be too difficult to come up with a proper way to punish Snape but also reward the good he did... Besides, he could never have come out and told Harry about his secrets while he was alive... Harry might've found out about them, but it couldn't have been Snape telling him. Nah, he needed to die.

That said, I'm terribly sad that he did die. Especially from Nagini. I would've appreciated a more lengthy or more.... I don't know...eloquent death scene or something. But I appreciate that he stayed under cover even until his death. I cried over his memories. :(

Still, am I missing something if I say that I expected much more from Snape in the whole book? Which was the true importance of the Advanced Potion Making book? Just to make us see how good a wizard was Snape when he was still 16, or to stress that Snape and Lily must have been studying Potions together, if Slughorn always takes Harry's brand new skill with Lily's? And the whole "Half-Blood Prince" thing: just a nickname? Making Snape like the eponymous hero of the sixth book, and then? 30 pages in the seventh book?
Well I think you hit on something there, the books are called Harry Potter and The Half-Blood Prince, not Severus Snape and The Boy Who Lived. This is Harry's story, and you can't just throw Snape in at every turn. We were shown exactly how important Snape was to the entire series, he was playing behind the scene and helping Harry survive a lot. Snape was a key figure behind the scenes, but in the end, Harry is our hero.

I hated that Snape died. He was my favorite character because he was the most complex character.

However, for the tale, it was required. How else would Harry and Snape have developed an understanding of each other demonstrated at the end of the book? Harry named his son after Snape; it was one of the top 4 names given to his sons. Considering the help he received from his other teachers and friends, this is sigificant.

I did like how Snape died. It was thoughtless and dismissed as being trivial by Voldemort. The fact that the Dark Lord could so easily take the life of one of his most trusted followers underscores his lack of compassion, and emphasizes how evil he was.

Harry's visible reaction to this death contrasts the values of both sides. Here was a teacher he hated, who he still believed killed his mentor, whose death he was horrified by.

OK...first, I cried:upset: Once I got over it I thought about the chapter a bit. I had been hoping for a little more between Harry and Snape. I don't know what...and I do agree that Harry would not have simply taken Snape's word for anything, but I had been hoping that JK would come up with something!!

As for his death, it was definitely not a hero's death as we all think of a hero's death; dying in battle, fighting side-by-side with comrades in arms for a cause. I do think that it was a quiet hero's death though. As many have pointed out, Snape was never discovered by Voldemort. He played his part to the end...even pushing Voldemort to let him go and find Harry! I personally think Snape could have given ol' Voldy a run for his money if he had been discovered as a spy, but he wasn't.

I love that in the end, he does not reveal himself to Voldemort as he realizes what the DL is going to do. He accepts his fate and in his final moments reveals himself to the only person that it would really matter to now.

Do I think his death was necessary? Yes, I had been expecting Snape to die. I had not expected this, but I had expected his death.

Do you believe it was necessary?
Unfortunately, yes. Especially in terms of the memories Snape gave Harry as he was dying. The memories showed Harry valuable information and truths that Harry would have not believed if communicated any other way, especially by Snape himself. Unfortunate, but probably the best way.

Did you see it coming?
I figured he would probably die at some point of the story, but not when he did, no.

What did you think about how he died?
Disappointed and sad. After everything he'd been through, if the guy had to die, he deserved a better death scene. I had myself convinced before the book came out that his death was going to be this heroic act of jumping in front of a killing curse for Harry (or something like that).

And how did you feel about it, are you sad, happy, or in total shock still? After reading The Prince's Tale, very sad. The "look at me" part still kills me. Such a tragic life...

I dont think he was treated as an unimportant character, Voldemort killed him personally. I also think it was written very well, and I had a lump in my throat when JK described the 'light' in his eyes going out.

Nope LV did not kill Snape, he had Nagini kill Snape. Voldemort still wouldn't have been able to use the wand, because he didn't kill him. I would have thought that Voldemort would have thought of that, the wand would know that the snake killed, not the wizard.

LV did, in a round about way, kill Snape by unleashing Nagini on him. We know that you do not have to "kill" the wand bearer to Conquer the wand, you have to defeat the person. By setting Nagini on Snape, LV thought he was conquering Snape and therefore, the wand.

Thanks for your replies, zgirnius and Lord Godric. I admit that my previous post was a little bit too vehement.
After that I reflected a little bit more and I found a really interesting essay about Snape in the seventh book. Here's the link http://rexluscus.livejournal.com/254445.html

After reading it, I realized I still wasn't considering some plot lines while thinking about Snape.
First of all, that when we see him in the last book is always after two pivotal twists: the first being Dumbledore's death at the end of the sixth year, and the second one being the fact that, before dying, Dumbledore told Snape that he had one more task to accomplish.
Snape was ordered to tell Harry that he ought die because of the part of Voldemort inside of him, and that Voldemort himself had to kill Harry.
Snape didn't know, of course, that Harry would have survived because only the Horcrux would have died, because Harry's sacrifice would have cast a protection on everyone else at Hogwarts, ect.
Since the ending of year 6 Snape knew that Harry was going to die at the hands of Voldemort, and that Harry's death was crucial for Voldemort's defeat. Snape knew it even when he killed Dumbledore at the top of the tower and then when he run chased by Harry in the Flight of the Prince chapter.
So, in the summer between 6th and 7th year, Snape had seen his mentor Dumbledore gone and he knew that Harry, Lily's son, had to die.
As the essay I linked at the top says, there was a transformation inside Snape. The transformation was already working before Dumbledore's death, as we can see when he says:
"I have spied for you and lied for you, put myself in mortal danger for you. Everything was supposed to be to keep Lily Potter's son safe. Now you tell me you have been raising him like a pig for slaughter--"
Here, for the first time, Snape calls Lily not Lily Evans but Lily Potter, because yes, he has started caring about Harry Potter a little bit more, now that he comes to know that the last alive remnant of Lily has to die.
Now, in the seventh year, everything he does for Harry, he does not only for protecting him as usual but even with a nostalgic sense, perhaps. And he gives Harry memories of Lily for free. The first time when he creates the beautiful doe patronus - it's the first time that Snape "talks" about Lily with Harry. The second time when he gives Harry all his memories, not just the bit demanded by Dumbledore. And he does so, thinking that Harry would have died in the following hours.
In the seventh book was impossible therefore to see Snape as the sarcastic teacher anymore. Knowing that Lily's son was condemned, he moved on a different level. He gave Ginny, Neville and Luna a punishment which was no punishment at all - just pretending - and he even saved, or tried to, Lupin's life. He defended Hermione from being called Mudblood and set a beautiful test of bravery for Harry.
And then I come back to the topic of his death. It's now clear to me that Snape couldn't have died shielding Harry or doing something of more outwardly heroic. He couldn't protect Harry - he knew that Harry ought to die at Voldemort's hand. There was no place at all for Snape being the man who saved the day. He didn't have to prevent Harry from dying, he had only to give Harry the last instruction of Dumbledore. And he gave it to Harry along with Lily's memory, because now, in the face of death, the lasting grudge had gone.
Snape didn't know of the Horcruxes, or of the Hallows, because Dumbledore denied telling him about that. I suspect also that Dumbledore knew that Voldemort would have killed Snape to become the true master of the Elder Wand, but Snape didn't. he knew only that the son of the woman he loved was going to die, that Dumbledore had already died, and that even with Voldemort's fall there wouldn't be any more life for him. He sacrificed his life without knowing anything of the future, just as Harry.
Now I understand a little bit more why Snape's death scene was structured like that - I didn't consider that Snape knew Harry had to die.

what excellant points you make, cabepfir. Well stated. Thank you for that post.

Do you believe it was necessary? Yes. As many others have mentioned here, Snape's life was not a happy one. The only thing/ person he seemed to live for was Lily. He was protecting Harry for her alone, and I don't think it would have made sense for JKR to form a non-hate relationship between he and Harry in the future. Much easier to just have Harry name a kid after him and say "he was the bravest man I knew," I guess.

Did you see it coming? While still thinking he was 'bad,' yes I thought that Voldemort would kill him eventually.

What did you think about how he died? A duel or some 'heroic' act would have been better in my opinion. To die from being crushed/ bitten by Nagini just didn't make much sense to me. Arthur Weasley was bitten and didn't die!?!?!

And how did you feel about it, are you sad, happy, or in total shock still? As my 'username' suggests, now that I know he was good, I am saddened. Not so much by his death alone, but his whole existence really.... after 'The Prince's Tale,' I really felt pity for him.

Thanks for your replies, zgirnius and Lord Godric. I admit that my previous post was a little bit too vehement.
After that I reflected a little bit more and I found a really interesting essay about Snape in the seventh book. Here's the link

Not at all! Thanks for the link, by the way, those are very interesting ideas! :)

And he gives Harry memories of Lily for free. The first time when he creates the beautiful doe patronus - it's the first time that Snape "talks" about Lily with Harry. The second time when he gives Harry all his memories, not just the bit demanded by Dumbledore. And he does so, thinking that Harry would have died in the following hours.

That's a really beautiful thought. I had not considered the meaning of the Doe scene in such a light.

And then I come back to the topic of his death. It's now clear to me that Snape couldn't have died shielding Harry or doing something of more outwardly heroic.

Good point! At least not from Voldemort...

I suspect also that Dumbledore knew that Voldemort would have killed Snape to become the true master of the Elder Wand, but Snape didn't.


I don't believe this idea. To figure out that Snape is (apparently) Master of the Elder Wand Voldemort would have had to trace its history, from Gregorovitch, to Grindelwald, to Dumbledore, to (apparently, by virtue of his seeming 'murder' of Dumbledore) to Snape. If he did so, he ought to have realized killing the former master is not necessary. Also, Voldemort started looking in the timeline of DH, after Dumbledore was dead.

But the major reason I don't believe this is that Dumbledore took no plans, as far as we know, to get the information Harry needed about being a Horcrux from anyone but Snape. Knowingly setting him up to be murdered would have been a dumb move.

Sorry, why should Voldemort have known he didn't have to kill Snape to become Master of the wand?

Sorry, why should Voldemort have known he didn't have to kill Snape to become Master of the wand?

That's just it, Voldemort got caught up in his own bias. To him, you defeat someone by killing them, and to Voldemort only certain people were "worthy" of power. So, it did not occur to Voldemort that Draco had "defeated" Dumbledore, because Draco disarmed Dumbledore while Severus Snape killed him, and so Voldemort skipped the part about Draco the same way he never realized that Kreacher could return to 12 Grimmauld Place, the same way he never realized that Harry Potter was not 'just lucky', the same way he never realized that Severus Snape was motivated solely by his love for Lily, not the lust for power that Voldemort thought was the case. Voldemort made a series of blunders because he only thought in terms of power and death, and so was powerless to prevent his own death, ironically by his own hand.

It seemed to Voldemort that the death of Severus Snape would serve him, and would in no way help Severus, but in fact it magnified Voldemort's mistakes, protected the secret of the Elder Wand's orientation, and provided the means for Severus' reconcilation with Harry.

That said, I'm terribly sad that he did die. Especially from Nagini. I would've appreciated a more lengthy or more.... I don't know...eloquent death scene or something. But I appreciate that he stayed under cover even until his death. I cried over his memories.

But this is what I loved about it. (probably the only thing) Death isn't glorious or heroic, but fast, painful, and horrible. You don't get a death-bed confession, because there is no time.

At the same time, I hated that after Snape's death almost nothing was said of him. No funeral, he wasn't on the 'Death March' with Harry, he wasn't in Limbo with Harry, no one really mentioned him in Limbo. He just died. I know that Harry finally figured Snape out, but I wanted to watch it happen! I wanted to see the emotions, but instead we just have Harry naming his kid after Severus. *cries*

That was my one disapointment with Deathly Hallows. The other character's stories weren't really revealed. I wanted to see what was going on in Hogwarts, the wizarding world, and the muggle world. Instead we had Harry camping out in the woods for most of the book. *tear*

Sorry, why should Voldemort have known he didn't have to kill Snape to become Master of the wand?

Grindewald was still alive, so if Dumbledore got the wand from him then Voldemort would realize that one doesn't have to die for the power to be transfered.

Ah, we must accept the author's vision that we have so willingly followed. Yes, I would have preferred that Snape reveal himself and that the Dark Lord face another humiliation of being fooled for so long. However, Snape was the greatest spy of all time -- worthy of Alias. One poster posed the question: Would Harry have believed Snape? Would he have even listened? I highly doubt it. The pensieve was the only way to communicate the ultimate secret. Slightly unsatisfying, but utterly brilliant.

At the same time, I hated that after Snape's death almost nothing was said of him. No funeral, he wasn't on the 'Death March' with Harry, he wasn't in Limbo with Harry, no one really mentioned him in Limbo. He just died. I know that Harry finally figured Snape out, but I wanted to watch it happen! I wanted to see the emotions, but instead we just have Harry naming his kid after Severus. *cries*

Snape was featured prominently in the final conversation Harry and Voldemort had in front of everybody who was fighting, on both sides of the battle. So at least his name was cleared in the most public way possible. :)

But yes, I would have liked to see some of Harry coming to terms with the new information myself. Though he did not belong in the 'death march' scene - Harry brought back the people he loved the most, and Snape was surely not one of them. (Nor was Dumbledore.)

Ah, we must accept the author's vision that we have so willingly followed. Yes, I would have preferred that Snape reveal himself and that the Dark Lord face another humiliation of being fooled for so long.

Harry did throw Snape and how wrong Voldemort was about him for so long in Voldemort's face, before the end.

But yes, I would have liked to see some of Harry coming to terms with the new information myself. Though he did not belong in the 'death march' scene - Harry brought back the people he loved the most, and Snape was surely not one of them. (Nor was Dumbledore.)

That's true, I guess I just wanted to see him again. XD

I felt so sad about Severus Snape death though I know that it is crucial for him to die. I feel Sadness that is beyond words and beyond tears. The Prince tale was definitely a brilliant chapter. Snape remains as my favorite character. I am proud to say that I never deny the fact that Severus Snape is capable of being the greatest fictional hero ever. Tragic but the greatest. Harry Potter might be the main character but Severus Snape is my ultimate favorite.
If I was Lily, I will definitely fall for him, but that is definitely a different story altogether.

I felt so sad about Severus Snape death though I know that it is crucial for him to die. I feel Sadness that is beyond words and beyond tears. The Prince tale was definitely a brilliant chapter. Snape remains as my favorite character. I am proud to say that I never deny the fact that Severus Snape is capable of being the greatest fictional hero ever. Tragic but the greatest. Harry Potter might be the main character but Severus Snape is my ultimate favorite.
If I was Lily, I will definitely fall for him, but that is definitely a different story altogether.

couldnt have said it better myself!! All hail Severus Snape!!

I kind of figured Harry wouldnt get a chance to speak to snape directly. If igured that if they got too close to eachother, Harry would try to duel instead of talk, so I wasnt expecting them to talk together. but the memories were unexpected. I also didnt think that voldemort would kill snape...

But I think of how much snape's memories, bravery, and ultimate good loyalties touched Harry when he names his child after him. It makes me feel good that Harry forgave snape even when he loathed Harry.

i thought that a situation would occur where ahrry would have to listin to snape, whether snape would have to jinx him or harry would be disarmed

i thought that a situation would occur where ahrry would have to listin to snape, whether snape would have to jinx him or harry would be disarmed
But if Snape did not die right after that then Harry would have been doubting it. Would you believe the man who is Voldemort's second hand man, telling you "You have to die Harry. There is no other way, Dumbledore knew you had to die." No, you would think that Snape is trying to lead you into a trap to get rid of you. You wouldn't believe he just had a change of heart and decided to tell you the truth. The memories are the only way that Harry would believe what he saw, because Snape no longer had anything to gain, he was dead.

But if Snape did not die right after that then Harry would have been doubting it. Would you believe the man who is Voldemort's second hand man, telling you "You have to die Harry. There is no other way, Dumbledore knew you had to die." No, you would think that Snape is trying to lead you into a trap to get rid of you. You wouldn't believe he just had a change of heart and decided to tell you the truth. The memories are the only way that Harry would believe what he saw, because Snape no longer had anything to gain, he was dead.

ok ok! you got me :lol:lol! no seriously i do agree with you - i can't imagin harry being that rational

If I was Lily, I will definitely fall for him, but that is definitely a different story altogether.

Here's a couple thoughts:

a) How sad is it that Snape is now in "the beyond" (for lack of a better description) with Lily.... AND James. He is no better off in eternity, assuming of course he has an afterlife consciousness somewhat like Harry and Dumbledore were experiencing together. He is there with her, but she still loves James.

b) If I'm not mistaken, Harry has two sons. Albus Severus and James. I'm not sure, and don't have my DH in front of me, if we learned James' middle name or not. But how strange would it have been to name one James Severus, with so much friction between the two men. :lol:

Here's a couple thoughts:

a) How sad is it that Snape is now in "the beyond" (for lack of a better description) with Lily.... AND James. He is no better off in eternity, assuming of course he has an afterlife consciousness somewhat like Harry and Dumbledore were experiencing together. He is there with her, but she still loves James.

b) If I'm not mistaken, Harry has two sons. Albus Severus and James. I'm not sure, and don't have my DH in front of me, if we learned James' middle name or not. But how strange would it have been to name one James Severus, with so much friction between the two men. :lol:

lol interesting post. and i actually thought snape is going into heaven with lily and james... unlucky ducky. But maybe everyone has there own heaven so he will be with lily and in james heaven he'll have his own lily.
James Severus:elaugh: nahhhhhh probably james sirius lol

Here's a couple thoughts:

a) How sad is it that Snape is now in "the beyond" (for lack of a better description) with Lily.... AND James. He is no better off in eternity, assuming of course he has an afterlife consciousness somewhat like Harry and Dumbledore were experiencing together. He is there with her, but she still loves James.

But I'm sure in the afterlife that the Marauders and Snape will be able to put aside their differences, because what do they have to gain from hating each other eternally? I can't imagine the afterlife being a place with a lot of friction, it has to be a place where all those who have earned it are happy, and Snape, Lily and James are definitely worthy of it.

ok ok! you got me :lol:lol! no seriously i do agree with you - i can't imagin harry being that rationalI'm on a roll today :D

I don't believe this idea. To figure out that Snape is (apparently) Master of the Elder Wand Voldemort would have had to trace its history, from Gregorovitch, to Grindelwald, to Dumbledore, to (apparently, by virtue of his seeming 'murder' of Dumbledore) to Snape. If he did so, he ought to have realized killing the former master is not necessary. Also, Voldemort started looking in the timeline of DH, after Dumbledore was dead.

But the major reason I don't believe this is that Dumbledore took no plans, as far as we know, to get the information Harry needed about being a Horcrux from anyone but Snape. Knowingly setting him up to be murdered would have been a dumb move.

It's a point I'm still wondering about. In fact, I tried to ask it to JKR during the live chat, but the question wasn't answered :shrug: When Harry and Dumbledore talk in the King's Cross chapter, Dumbledore says that he intended the Elder Wand to be in Snape's hand. We know that this wasn't the case, because the Wand was buried with Dumbledore. But what does exactly mean, that Dumbledore intended the Wand for Snape? Maybe Dumbledore was saying that only to make Harry reason about the true ownership of the Wand - Harry rightly deduced that the true Master should be Draco, and after him, Harry himself.

As Daelin said, Voldemort didn't understand anything right about the Elder Wand. Given that Dumbledore, on the contrary, understands quite well Voldemort's typical way of reasoning, maybe - I'm really guessing it, probably I'm wrong - maybe Dumbledore understood that Voldemort would have taken Snape for the true master of the Wand. I don't know.

I'm trying to interpret what JKR wrote. If I should speak as a fan, I'd say - as I did - that I wanted more Snape in action and more mourning of him, as wimblemimble said. But Albus Severus was quite a reward, I cried so much reading that line :upset:

lol interesting post. and i actually thought snape is going into heaven with lily and james

Heh. You're assuming James went to Heaven? :angel:

Heh. You're assuming James went to Heaven? :angel:

ooo never thought about it that way!! Maybe in hell james and bellatrix might get together!! Muhhwahaaa!!!:err:

How do we know the books have a heaven and a hell? I don't think anything points towards it. They make it seem, to me, like there's just an afterlife.

How do we know the books have a heaven and a hell? I don't think anything points towards it. They make it seem, to me, like there's just an afterlife.

well i think religion and god was more prominent in DH than any other of her books, and plus Dumbledore sort of hints that there is another place to go after death type thing

We did have a topic and it wasn't general thoughts on the afterlife.

It's a point I'm still wondering about. In fact, I tried to ask it to JKR during the live chat, but the question wasn't answered :shrug: When Harry and Dumbledore talk in the King's Cross chapter, Dumbledore says that he intended the Elder Wand to be in Snape's hand. We know that this wasn't the case, because the Wand was buried with Dumbledore. But what does exactly mean, that Dumbledore intended the Wand for Snape? Maybe Dumbledore was saying that only to make Harry reason about the true ownership of the Wand - Harry rightly deduced that the true Master should be Draco, and after him, Harry himself.

As Daelin said, Voldemort didn't understand anything right about the Elder Wand. Given that Dumbledore, on the contrary, understands quite well Voldemort's typical way of reasoning, maybe - I'm really guessing it, probably I'm wrong - maybe Dumbledore understood that Voldemort would have taken Snape for the true master of the Wand. I don't know.

I'm trying to interpret what JKR wrote. If I should speak as a fan, I'd say - as I did - that I wanted more Snape in action and more mourning of him, as wimblemimble said. But Albus Severus was quite a reward, I cried so much reading that line :upset:

I remember reading that bit and I wasn't too sure exactly what was meant. I think perhaps Dumbledore intended Severus to be the one who got the wand, but Draco ended up doing it. But what Dumbledore's REAL regret was, I think, that Voldemort was too stupid to realize killing isn't the only way to overpower someone and get a wand. I think he was hoping that Voldemort would just disarm Severus if he thought he had the wand, not KILL him. And no way could Dumbledore have foreseen that Harry would be the rightful possessor in the end, unless he hoped that Harry would disarm Severus after the fact and have the ire of Voldemort put on himself, and the items from the will were supposed to be clues to it all.

I don't blame Harry for not having Dumbledore in his little group en route to his death because he probably was thinking, "Darn you Dumbledore, what the heck were you playing at all these years?" I know I would have been!

And as for Severus not reappearing after his death, yes, I would have liked to see him again in some way - portrait or in the Afterlife - but I understand Rowling's decisions. Her explanation of the portrait makes sense, especially in that we know Severus didn't exactly relish the position, so I think the fact that he skipped out the window and "done a bunk" clears that up. He left when he shouldn't have - the headmaster should defend the school from attack and he left, but only so he could go find Harry. And I understand that Severus should not have been at the King's Cross Limbo because he died earlier in the night, he already visited that place and moved on. I have an image of Dumbledore twiddling his fingers in Limbo, waiting for everyone who died that night to pop up so he could welcome them to the Afterlife.

I think Rowling's version of the Afterlife is nice because it's vague and uncertain, but she seems to think there is only one place to go to, and the Limbo world is what is just before it. I like that Voldemort was left as a pile of nothingness because that's what his soul reflected, but that there isn't some version of Heaven and Hades and "other" effects which will judge where Voldemort goes or where Severus would go. It's just one place and your soul reflects who you are. Also, because Rowling set it up like this, I think we can expect that Severus moved on, especially as we learned that Severus feared for his soul when Dumbledore wanted Severus to kill him. I think Snape wanted to know he had a clean slate and I think in Rowling's mind, he got it.

We don't know how Rowling would write the actual Afterlife and what it would look like, but I think she equates your mind with your soul, and that that is what moves on - you as a person, your character, that voice inside. And I think in Rowling's mind, that person in you, what is called the soul, will have its own version of the Afterlife. As Limbo sort of molded according to Harry, but Dumbledore alluded to it being different or something, I think Rowling is trying to say that the Afterlife is as you would like it to be. Sort of like that movie WHAT DREAMS MAY COME. So for Severus, I think if his Afterlife becomes what he would like it to be, then he would see Lily again, and perhaps all of his regrets and pain would be fixed.

[QUOTE=Hunter;4630880]This thread is so that you may discuss your reaction to Severus Snape's death.

Do you believe it was necessary?
It was despicable and awful that Voldemort killed him only to get his wand to werk better, this was low even for him, more if we take into account that Voldemort thought to the very end that Snape was his man, he used him in the most horrible way. Nevertheless, this allowed Harry to truly know why Snape acted the way he did, because I don't really think that he had listened to anything Snape said, moreover because he thought he had killed Dubmledore out of betrayal

Did you see it coming?
Not at all, I thought he wanted to talk to Snape to get him to bring him Harry... and also, I thought he would use Avada Kedavra, using Nagini was, again, despicable even for him

What did you think about how he died?
I think it was really sad that he had to died hated by everyone, before he could explain to anyone ehy he acted the way he did, why he had killed Dumbledore... It was really unfair that he couldn't get proper recognition for his bravery when he lived, that's why I cried on the epilogue by Harry naming one of his sons Albus Severus :upset:

And how did you feel about it, are you sad, happy, or in total shock still?
I'm sad, and lso still in shock, but I'm so glad he wasn't bad at the end because I was angry at him since ending of book 7, just as Harry, and It broke my heart to read how much he had suffered all his life, and the fact that he wanted to see Lily's eyes one more time, through Harry, before he died :sad:

[QUOTE]

Heh. You're assuming James went to Heaven? :angel:

ahahahah :lol: I had the laught of the day...

by the way, in this thread http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=108412 they're discussing Dumbledore's manipulations, including the possibility of Dumbledore leading (please take this verbe as vague as you can) Snape to death.

Heh.

[i]"Good morning, Headmaster. You remember my wife Lily, of course? And this is my son, Scimitar.

Goodness me, Scimitar Snape. I love it! But I don't thank you for making me snort tea out my nose when I read it :p (I have GOT to stop bringing beverages near the computer).

Snape deserved a better death scene. I thought that after the Prince's Tale (k, I've read this chapter after the Seven Potters, and after the Epilogue, because the title was too interesting), I thought he would injure the dark lord with his powers, and was on the verge of victory or something, but dies trying to save Harry from the Killing Curse

Severus may have been picked on in school for his name, but even he wouldn't want his own kid getting picked on for a name. I doubt Scimitar Snape would be running around. I think if he'd kept the Prince name, Hannibal Prince would have been a good name for his son, if I may channel Rowling's sense of naming kids in her world. But with Snape, Hannibal Snape doesn't work.

And given Snape's sense of holding strength and ability as values on a pedestal, he'd be looking for strong names.

Eadric
Gareth
Edmund
Edward
Eamon
Kellen
Patrick
Rian
Rogan (if the boy were a red-head)
Ryan

I think that Snape should have told Harry everything by himself, cause it would make a better scene to be imagined by the readers, a better way for Harry to find out the truth about the professor he had aways hated... But I still liked it, specially the part where Snape looked through Harry's eyes, because they were like Lily's, it was amazing...

The second time through the book I realized what Prof. Snape meant when he said "look at me." And I admit that I cried. Although I never doubted his loyalty, he wasn't a lovable character, so I was surprised that I was so moved by his death.

I thought his death was very anti-climatic based on all the hype by the publishers and what seemed to be building through the novels.

I also was surprized how much interaction Harry and Snape didn't have. I remember being more then half way through the book and my finacee asking me if Snape was good or bad (I wore my Snape is Good! sticker at the release) and I had to tell her I had no idea becuase he had barely been in the book to that point.

Snape was my favorite character in the series. DH, while being an excellent wrap-up in my opinion, failed horribly when it came to Snape. Barely in the book and a lame death.

I'm not a Snape fan , but i think he should have had a better death. anything would have been better. having harry see snape's maemory's in the pensive was a good idea because harry would never have listened to snape and would never have belived him.

I cried when Snpae tod harry to look at him. His one last chance to see Lily's eye's , so sad.

i am really dissappointed that Snape didn't tell Harry in person. I would love for JKR to describe snapes face when Harry took it all in!! I WANT MORE SNAPE!!!

I think Snape's death was probably the saddest death in the book! :sad:The Prince's Tale was probably the saddest chapters of all (apart from The Forest Again)! I almost felt guilty for hating him throughout the other 6books!!
Severus Snape's history just shows the genius of JK Rowling - whoever thought that this bad tempered ill man (with extremely oily hair) could have loved a woman so strongly that he ultimately died for her!! Just shows most things aren't what they seem!
Snape is (or should I say was) an extremely complex and flawed character but aren't they all!
P.S. I agree with OrderAuror, Harry wouldn't have believed Snape or even given him the time to explain.

I never came to like Snape so I was glad he got his due in the end. I too was a bit confused about the Snape having the elder wand bit, Harry seemed to understand tho. I thought JKR made the death a bit harsh, gobbled by a Snake and all, but it was fitting I guess and she had to have him survive to give the memories.

Dumbledore said the afterlife is the 'next great adventure' so I am sure they are all on a great adventure up there. You get to imagine whatever you want.

I had hoped that Snape would do something awesome like step in front of Harry and take the AK curse for him. I think then I might have come out liking the dude more. But as it was, he went out begging and that was pretty pitiful - I am not sure why she wrote it that way because he was supposed to be a sympathetic character at that point. But it only made me more disgusted with him (even though now I know that he HAD to speak with Harry - but I didn't know it when I was reading.) Even after reading though, I wondered why he raised his wand at Voldemort and never struck the man. Did he have a death wish? Was he afraid of Voldemort? Did he realize he could not kill Voldemort? What exactly was up with that?

Okay, I have re-read it a few times now and the more I read it the less happy I am with the way Snape died. Snake/bubble/head - really???

I do think that Harry seeing Snape's memories in the pensieve was a stroke of brilliance - there is no way a conversation between Harry and Snape could have contained that much detail - in fact no way it would have taken place after he had seen Snape apparently murder Dumbledore. I therefore think that the way that the past was revisited and Snape's true character and motivation revealed could not have been done better or more sympathetically.

BUT, the snake thing - noooooooo. Surely there was a way for a better (or at least less ridiculous) death without losing the pensieve scene? How about Snape sees LV is protecting Nagini as he was warned he would and puts the memories in the penseive himself and his doe patronus appears to Harry during the battle and leads Harry up to the headmasters office to see them? Snape would have known Harry would never believe him without seeing it for himself and Harry already trusts the patronus...

Snape could have had a sort of 'in the event of my death' spell where the bottled memories would appear to Harry if he was killed...Something of this nature would have allowed Snape a better death - maybe taking an AK for Harry or one of the Order/DA or if we want the slow death so that he can look into Harry's eyes (morbid much!) maybe a cursed object???

I just really don't like the snake bubble! In some parts of the book (this being one of them) I get the slight feeling that JK may have written it while keeping the future film in mind. That's all I want to say about that subject 'cos I love JK!

I absolutely did not see that coming(I despised Snape) I always thought that he was always working with voldermort and the fact that he was in love with lily just surprises me so much. Especially with the way he treats Harry.

I do reckon it's a bit sad the way he died though, I don't reckon it's fair.

snake bubble!

:lol: Okay, I hadn't really put that imagery to mind correctly. For some reason, I am finding this hilarious.... "snake bubble." And basically, that's what it was.... I kept thinking on my initial readiing that the snake had left it's protective sphere to attack Snape, and Harry would jump out and kill it then get away from Voldemort for a later, huge fight scene. But then I realized that the snake killed Snape while still in the ....teehee... snake bubble.

Snape could have had a sort of 'in the event of my death' spell where the bottled memories would appear to Harry if he was killed...Something of this nature would have allowed Snape a better death - maybe taking an AK for Harry or one of the Order/DA or if we want the slow death so that he can look into Harry's eyes (morbid much!) maybe a cursed object???

Snape can't do that! Snape was convinced Harry had to die!!! Why would he jump in front of Harry when Dumbledore convinced him that Harry needs to die?

Snape gave more memories to Harry, memories that Dumbledore thought Snape could keep as a secret, Dumbledore didn't force Snape to show Harry why Dumbledore trusted Snape...Snape gave it to him to show Harry (he made his own choice to give harry those memories) all harry had to know was that he should die!

And doesn't the man deserve to at least see the eyes of the girl he loved before he died? I don't think that's morbid or too dramatic, I find it...fitting. I thought it was rather beautiful for him to see Lily's eyes.

I think the scene is fine the way it is. Snape never like Harry, no matter how much he loved Lily. The truth was that Harry looked and acted (according to Snape) too much like James, whom Snape hated. Snape would never pull Harry aside and say, "Listen, I've got some things to tell you about me..." I think that would have been a far stretch to write. You saw the way he acted toward Harry at the end of Prince. No civil conversation there. No, I don't think it would have been in Snape's character to sit Harry down and tell him the truth. Besides, the few times that Harry did manage to get inside Snape's memories, Snape was very angry. He wouldn' t want to see Harry's reaction to them.

This thread is so that you may discuss your reaction to Severus Snape's death.

Do you believe it was necessary?
No, I don't believe so, I was rather confused at the end when they talked of the true owner of the Elder Wand.

Did you see it coming?
Not at all

What did you think about how he died?
I dislike it, Stupid Nagini

And how did you feel about it, are you sad, happy, or in total shock still?
I was sad and shocked, My love has grown for Snape since the 6th book.

I am not a fan of Snape, although I am mellowing a bit on him as the days pass and the rereadings increase. His death was like his life--a waste of so much potential and brought about by his own choices. I really expected a more noble death from him, saving someone or protecting Hogwarts. Instead, he was discarded by Voldemort like a piece of rubbish. Voldemort didn't even have the affection for his "most trusted servant" to kill him quickly and painlessly. That's like the final insult! (and yes, I know he had to give Harry the memories, so I guess he had to die more slowly.) I think his final "Look at me" was both to see Lily's eyes and to ask Harry to see him as he really was.

Snape's death, upon reread, was sad. It took his death for him to finally open up to Harry - the facade that he'd employed crumbled away in the last seconds. Dumbledore's statement to him, to the effect of "you don't want the boy to know the best of you?", was particularly revealing.
In terms of drama, the death worked well - Harry got there barely in time to get the memories. A quick "AK" from Voldemort would have prevented this, of course, but perhaps Voldemort was afraid the wand wouldn't work right.

This thread is so that you may discuss your reaction to Severus Snape's death.

Do you believe it was necessary?

Did you see it coming?

What did you think about how he died?

And how did you feel about it, are you sad, happy, or in total shock still?

Edited to Add:


AS THIS IS STILL A HIGHLY CONTROVERSIAL AND SENSITIVE TOPIC WE WOULD LIKE TO ASK EVERYONE TO PLEASE BE SENSITIVE TO OTHERS OPINIONS. THIS MEANS NO GLOATING AS WELL AS NO BASHING. CONSEQUENCES WILL BE SEVERE.

Additionally please read How to have a pleasant conversation on any topic (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=108019) and Character Bashing/Worship: aka Shades of Gray (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=108021) BEFORE POSTING IN THIS THREAD

I thought it was neccessary for him to die even though I do agree that it was a really punk way for him to be killed. He should have died it battle. I really expected that it was going to happen with him trying to defend Harry or the kids at Hogwarts or something like that. I think JK could have come up with a better way for him to die.

I thought it was neccessary for him to die even though I do agree that it was a really punk way for him to be killed. He should have died it battle. I really expected that it was going to happen with him trying to defend Harry or the kids at Hogwarts or something like that. I think JK could have come up with a better way for him to die.

He did die trying to defend Harry - he was trying to alert Harry that he (Harry) was a horcrux. He was trying to get his release to show Harry the memories of the Prince's Tale chapter. Rereading that section, I think that Voldy did see through Snape a bit - he saw that Snape was desparate to get away and get to Potter, and I think that he (Voldy) realized that Snape may not have been on his side after all. This may be why he used Nagini to kill Snape, since Voldy knew it was a more cruel death.

Was Nagini more cruel than an AK? I've heard that Snape was killed more honorably than if an AK was used. It sounds minor, but I think it could make all the difference.

Was Nagini more cruel than an AK? I've heard that Snape was killed more honorably than if an AK was used. It sounds minor, but I think it could make all the difference.

AK is quick and painless...Nagini wasn't quick nor painless. Snape may not have understood the parseltongue for "Kill", but he had to know what Voldemort was saying when he gave the instructions to Nagini.

Regardless of the pain, I think by delegating the death, Voldemort made it less honorable - in the end, he didn't think Snape was worthy of being killed by himself. (Though, Naginicrux did make it so that in a way Voldemort killed Voldemort himself...)

This may be why he used Nagini to kill Snape, since Voldy knew it was a more cruel death.

A bit tiresome from a literary perspective, though. Plus, it was out of character. Had Voldy killed Snape outright with AK, Harry would have failed because he would have lacked the information Snape was supposed to pass to him. Voldy had no problem killing numerous others, including Muggles and Muggle-borns with AK.

It seemed like the James Bond villain literary effect all over again. The whole kill-the-hero-in-a-creative-fashion-that-has-all-sorts-of-loopholes-then-walk-away-out-of-arrogance motif seems a bit weak. :rolleyes:

It seemed like the James Bond villain literary effect all over again. The whole kill-the-hero-in-a-creative-fashion-that-has-all-sorts-of-loopholes-then-walk-away-out-of-arrogance motif seems a bit weak. :rolleyes:

There is a logical reason for Voldemort not to try and kill Snape with the Killing Curse directly. The wand Voldemort was using at the time was the Elder Wand, and he believed Snape to be its true master. The only spell he cast had to do with moving/altering the bubble, something the wand would not see as an action against Snape.

As far as watching Snape die...why? He knew Snape was a dead man when he left the room, and he was right. He did not have any idea Snape was disloyal and still in a position to hurt Voldemort's chances of victory.

There is a logical reason for Voldemort not to try and kill Snape with the Killing Curse directly. The wand Voldemort was using at the time was the Elder Wand, and he believed Snape to be its true master. The only spell he cast had to do with moving/altering the bubble, something the wand would not see as an action against Snape.

Excellent point. I had not considered that.


As far as watching Snape die...why? He knew Snape was a dead man when he left the room, and he was right. He did not have any idea Snape was disloyal and still in a position to hurt Voldemort's chances of victory.

The same mistake they all make. Don't walk away until the lights go out.

The whole kill-the-hero-in-a-creative-fashion-that-has-all-sorts-of-loopholes-then-walk-away-out-of-arrogance motif....

Hee hee.

Well, at least Voldemort was consistent in his desire to

kill-the-hero-in-a-creative-fashion-that-has-all-sorts-of-loopholes

That always bothered me about Voldie, especially in GOF, where he not only waited a whole year to get Harry but then had to set up a formal duel before an audience. Underneath it all, Voldie might have been sabotaging himself because of an unconscious death wish. :)

I thought it would have been more effective if Harry had been let into Snape's mind directly, there in the Shrieking Shack, rather than through the awkward medium of lugging a memory over to the Pensieve. We know this was possible, because Harry did it by accident in a lesson. It would have allowed one poignant moment of understanding between them before Snape expired. Snape's death scene was ugly in the worst way and the blue stuff spilling out of him -- ugh.

Snape was allways a "behind the battle" man (not even a phrase I know) I think it was right that he died in a suttle way like that, well was kinda soft bitten by a snake. If he took the killing curse for Harry, well he would of NEVER done that would of been totaly OOC. Harry was more James than Lily, in the sence of looks and well acting, and Snape wouldnt safe James life. So if Snape saved Harrys life like that, IMO wouldnt of been great.

[QUOTE=zgirnius;4685405]There is a logical reason for Voldemort not to try and kill Snape with the Killing Curse directly. The wand Voldemort was using at the time was the Elder Wand, and he believed Snape to be its true master. The only spell he cast had to do with moving/altering the bubble, something the wand would not see as an action against Snape.

Never thought of that, thats very true. Nice one (y).

Snape was allways a "behind the battle" man (not even a phrase I know) I think it was right that he died in a suttle way like that, well was kinda soft bitten by a snake. If he took the killing curse for Harry, well he would of NEVER done that would of been totaly OOC. Harry was more James than Lily, in the sence of looks and well acting, and Snape wouldnt safe James life. So if Snape saved Harrys life like that, IMO wouldnt of been great.

I disagree with your estimation of Snape, in that I do think he would have taken a curse for Harry in general, if the need had arisen. However, a death valiantly saving Harry from Voldemort would not have made any sense for Snape in the context of DH, Snape's final mission in DH was to tell Harry that was supposed to happen - Voldmeort was supposed to kill Harry. Snape was not too happy about that mission, but he did carry it out.

Never thought of that, thats very true. Nice one (y).

Thanks!

The same mistake they all make. Don't walk away until the lights go out.

True...but then he would not be an Evil Overlord. :lol:

I thought it would have been more effective if Harry had been let into Snape's mind directly, there in the Shrieking Shack, rather than through the awkward medium of lugging a memory over to the Pensieve. We know this was possible, because Harry did it by accident in a lesson. It would have allowed one poignant moment of understanding between them before Snape expired. Snape's death scene was ugly in the worst way and the blue stuff spilling out of him -- ugh.

As you pointed out, it was an accident. In casting Legilimens (or whatever it is) upon Harry, Snape left himself vulnerable to the rebound when Harry threw out the shield charm. Harry never cast Legilimens himself and, considering his abysmal capabilities with Occlumency, would probably not have managed it successfully.


True...but then he would not be an Evil Overlord. :lol:

One of these days, we're going to run into a humble, calculating evil overlord and then there will be heck to pay! :lol:

One of these days, we're going to run into a humble, calculating evil overlord and then there will be heck to pay! :lol:

Hee hee.

What a great idea.

I wasn't surprised that Snape died. Sooner or later his true loyalties were going to be revealed and someone (whether it be Harry or Voldemort) would get their revenge. What shocked me was the manner in which he died. It was so pointless and unfair. I had really thought that he would go down in a dramatic act of heroism. I read somewhere (can't remember where) that a Severus Snape fan had thought it poignant that Snape was left alone in death as he had been in life. I found it incredibly sad. There was never any mention of what happened to Snape's body. I thought he deserved much more than that.

I thought he deserved much more than that.

In the words of Dirty Harry:

"'Deserves got nuthin to do with it" :p

Tragic hero? Yes. But he exercised a whole bunch of "undeserved" at Harry over 6 years. A little "undeserved" back might just have been karma's last laugh.

I think Snape's death was extremelly disturbing and awful, even if at that moment I didn't know if he was good or bad. Nagini scares the hell out of me. It was really cruel, and now that I know he was the good guy that scene just gets 1000% times worst. He had to die I think, but not like that :(
Hey at least he'll see lily again... will he? yeah this is crazy talk...

Severus Snape's death was so hard to read. As you know, I was resigned to the fact he would die, but to actually READ it was a different thing. Though I thought it would be defending Harry from a D.E. or Voldemort, but in a wya he di just that. Each time I read it, the more I notice. The moment he walked into the room, I knew he was doomed. When I read that his face went "Stone like" I felt for him. To see this normally cool under pressure person suddenly being so scared he's stuttering, shaking, looking for a way out, but knows he's trapped is heart wrenching. You could just feel the blood draining out of him. His death is also pointless, un-needed. It showed how Cruel Voldemort was.
If you get a chance to re-read "The Elder Wand" pay close attention to his Body Language, especially his eye contact. The entire time he's watching Nagini. At first I thought it was because of the "Fight or Flight" instinct kicking in, but then I realized he was LYING to Voldemort. Voldemort's supposedly just as good as or better at Occlumency than Severus.
When Snape comes into the Shrieking Shack, he is within inches of brushing against Harry who shrinks into a corner. That's when I knew he was aware Harry was there. Even though Harry doesn't make a sound, Snape knew about the Invisibility Cloak. He probably also felt a breeze, heard or sensed Harry was there and LIED to the "Most Powerful" Wizard of all time. I also cried because of WHERE he died. Again, I think he had that sense of deja vu, but knew this time there was no way out. Plus, even though he was "Dumbledore's Man" as Harry said, Severus was so deep in the Death Eaters the only way out was through his Death.
The other thing which bothered me was Harry didn't learn the truth until after Snape DIED. Okay, I knew that would probably happen. Even though Harry vindicated Snape while fighting Tom Riddle and to his Son, Snape still was judged until the end. I am NOT saying "Oh Snape was the greatest guy ever" because he was a jerk, Bully, etc. But he was proof that those Characteristics or Personality traits/lack of doesn't mean a person is Evil.
The way Snape died also showed how cruel and cold Voldemort was in comparison to Snape. He played with him before hand.
When Snape says "Take it, take it" and then says "look at me", that was such a profound moment between Severus and Harry.
Plus the fact he died not learning he would be hailed a Hero and the "Bravest Man" Harry ever knew.
Even though I KNEW he couldn't live without being made Evil or giving something like his Freedom up, moving to another country, changing his identity, it was still hard to read.
I personally never saw him as a Character who'd be able to live and walk into the Sunset. As long as he was alive, he'd always be known as "the guy who killed Dumbledore". Even though he was vindicated, people would still point their fingers, etc. Plus he wouldn't be able to live at Hogwarts because of the stigma attached to him. People wouldn't see him in the same light. He wouln't be able to walk anywhere without someone recognizing him. Same for Harry, but people would see him as being a hero. With Snape there would be people who would say "Yeah, I know he's not guilty, but he still held the wand, said the words, I don't trust him". THAT's what upset me. The fact he didn't get to live to have that public apology. He also wouldn't be a happy person. He was so filled with guilt over Lily's death and Harry was a constant reminder of what he could have had if he had made different choices.

Do you think Snape picked the memories that Harry recieved while he was dying, or do you think they indiscriminately leaked out?

Based on what is shown, I would almost say that he picked them. But you have to wonder by the way it was described, it almost seemed as if they just started leaking out in the midst of his dying - like he did the release spell but couldn't control it. Although it would be highly coincidental for those particular memories to have "just come out". Still it is something I wondered while reading his death.

i think that, yes, snapes death was not the heroic end he wold havedeserved but then if the book had ended with everyone knowing he was a hero and everything it would have been a little to much of a hallmark moment dont you think.

in his dark materials trilogy, the ending is so effective cos it doesnt work out the way you wanted it too. its heartbreaking! and thats what happened to snape. his death and his story are absolutely heartbreaking and it had to happen to give the book a really good ending.

i also went into DH thinking snape was an innocent man and he was my favourite character and i was destroyed reading his death, i mean that 'look a me' bit. when i reread his death i just cried!

i think his death and 'princes tale' were perfect cos it made it clear to us that he was a hero who never got the recognition he deserved and lived a life where nobody trusted him and he gave up sooooo much and it was a fittin g end cos it made it all the more tragic and it made the book good because of that.

i dont know if i really got across what i feel. i kinda ramble a bit.

i allways knew that snape was a good guy! thats why i loved him so much but i think the way he died was unfitting! he should of fought back

DId you think for once that Snape ever took a liking to Harry?

Sure :)

Finally I can say it! I knew it! And my fanfiction is very, very close to Jo's final story! :tu: And I wrote it a few years ago :cool:

I was sure that Snape will die in book 7. There were many hints, I'm thinking about Snape's similarity to Byron's Giaour, the mirror style of writing, the spider's, Aragog's burial in the sixth book, Snape described walking in a twitchy way recalling a spider and so on :) But I've never thought Nagini will do the job :( I thought Voldemort will do it.

You can read it here:
http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=71767

I predicted they knew each other before Hogwarts, Lily was friends with Snape till the Mudblood comment, and so on and so on.

I'm glad Snape died trying to protect Harry and his last words for Harry were to look at him :)

DId you think for once that Snape ever took a liking to Harry?

I would like to think so, being a huge fan of Snape. Unfortunately I don't think he ever did though. Even when Dumbledore asks him whether he had come to care for the boy, he said that it was always only for Lily [by showing his patronus].

It said in the book he couldn't get over his resentment, and he only saw James in Harry, not Lily.

Do you think Snape picked the memories that Harry recieved while he was dying, or do you think they indiscriminately leaked out?

I think Snape was just about the cleverest, most careful, most precise of the characters. Had Voldy been nearly as clever as Snape, he'd have won.

That being said, I think Snape recognized that he may need to find a way to communicate the information that Harry needed to prevail without speaking. I think Snape had the memories he wanted to impart selected ahead of time - just in case. he was too much of a plotter to now prepare for a few contingencies.

Do you believe it was necessary?
No. I thought his death was not necessary what so ever, and this might sound like I am contradicting myself but, I guess it had to be done (Snape's Death).

Did you see it coming?
No.

What did you think about how he died?
I kind of thought it marked the ending of the book, and the downfall of Lord Voldemort.

And how did you feel about it, are you sad, happy, or in total shock still?
So, very sad, ESPECIALLY after "The Prince's Tale", that just brought out what a good guy Snape was the whole time.

I had always liked Snape from the beginning, even after the incident in HBP, I wasn't turned off. I still thought something would be uncovered that showed he was plain awesome. It stinks when you look back and see how Harry (Spawn of Snape's beloved Lily) treated Snape.

If you get a chance to re-read "The Elder Wand" pay close attention to his Body Language, especially his eye contact. The entire time he's watching Nagini. At first I thought it was because of the "Fight or Flight" instinct kicking in, but then I realized he was LYING to Voldemort. Voldemort's supposedly just as good as or better at Occlumency than Severus.

Snape is watching Nagini also because Dumbledore said him to pay attention to the moment when Voldemort would have kept the snake next to him, protected by magical charms, because it would be the moment to give Harry the information about the piece of Voldemort's soul inside of Harry. Seeing Nagini into the magical cage Snape understood the moment had come, and he tried desperately to make Voldemort let him go after Harry.
Unfortunately, we all know what happened next...

Snape is watching Nagini also because Dumbledore said him to pay attention to the moment when Voldemort would have kept the snake next to him, protected by magical charms, because it would be the moment to give Harry the information about the piece of Voldemort's soul inside of Harry. Seeing Nagini into the magical cage Snape understood the moment had come, and he tried desperately to make Voldemort let him go after Harry.
Unfortunately, we all know what happened next...

God i need to re read the book, lookin at these posts i've forgotten half the stuff that was in it!! Feel free to slap me if necessary!! lol

God i need to re read the book, lookin at these posts i've forgotten half the stuff that was in it!! Feel free to slap me if necessary!! lol

We don't slap people here on CoS - we're nice folks :rockon:

Anyways, I'm fairly convinced that Snape was trying to get to Harry in order to give him the memories that he gave him after Nagini attacked. I even think that Snape knew he was about to die, and he desparately needed to give Harry the Harrycrux info.

I also think that, in the back of his mind, LV knew that Snape wanted to get away in order to help Harry. LV just suppressed that thought, but I think he realized something was "wrong" about Snape...

We don't slap people here on CoS - we're nice folks :rockon:

I also think that, in the back of his mind, LV knew that Snape wanted to get away in order to help Harry. LV just suppressed that thought, but I think he realized something was "wrong" about Snape...

oooo interesting thought! mayb he did! he was good at all that mid readin malark! lol

it's definitely possible, snape was a bit distracted and some of his occlumency might have slipped up enough for LV to notice his loyalties had waned. but it was already too late cos voldy was going to kill snape to get the elder wand's service.

and i'd like to think that somewhere DEEP DEEP inside that snape did like harry, at least the lily in him, while revolted by the james in harry. i just think he didn't allow himself to care for harry that much because he recognized that harry was in grave danger and the cost that losing another person he cared about would be too much for him. he had already lost lily, the regard of the order (not that he was particularly bound to anyone there...but surely he and mcgonagall had some at least civil conversations in the past), and was going to lose DD by his own hand.

At the moment of his death, I think that Snape finally saw Lily in Harry, and saw what a different man he was from James. Looking into his eyes - something he had avoided thinking about, IMO - made him realize that. Dumbledore tried to alert Snape to this right after Lily's death, but Snape either willfully ignored this or couldn't get by the resemblance to James.

it's definitely possible, snape was a bit distracted and some of his occlumency might have slipped up enough for LV to notice his loyalties had waned. but it was already too late cos voldy was going to kill snape to get the elder wand's service.

and i'd like to think that somewhere DEEP DEEP inside that snape did like harry, at least the lily in him, while revolted by the james in harry. i just think he didn't allow himself to care for harry that much because he recognized that harry was in grave danger and the cost that losing another person he cared about would be too much for him. he had already lost lily, the regard of the order (not that he was particularly bound to anyone there...but surely he and mcgonagall had some at least civil conversations in the past), and was going to lose DD by his own hand.

i would hope that snape would have some feelings for him

I knew his death was coming. I also thought that Lord Voldemort would've killed him. I hated the way he died. It made me cry. I didn't like that Snape had to die while Harry still hated him for the whole Dumbledore's death. Although I liked how Snape gave Harry his memory and after Harry had seen Snape in the Pensieve and seen that he was really in love with Lily and was acting as a spy. I also cried on the part where Snape reads Lily's letter and starts to cry. That was so sad. :(

I knew his death was coming. I also thought that Lord Voldemort would've killed him. I hated the way he died. It made me cry. I didn't like that Snape had to die while Harry still hated him for the whole Dumbledore's death. Although I liked how Snape gave Harry his memory and after Harry had seen Snape in the Pensieve and seen that he was really in love with Lily and was acting as a spy. I also cried on the part where Snape reads Lily's letter and starts to cry. That was so sad. :(

the only time i cried was during snapes parts

I found Snape's death a bit anti-climactic and the so-called revealations about his true nature and his love of Lily silly. Everyone had already guessed all of that and there was nothing new in it. The actual mechanism was a bit lame in my opinion.

I really had hoped we'd get to see Snape demonstrate the precariousness of his situation, by say, being in the position of having to choose to protect either Harry or Draco (but not both), knowing that either choice would mean failure....

I found Snape's death a bit anti-climactic and the so-called revealations about his true nature and his love of Lily silly. Everyone had already guessed all of that and there was nothing new in it. The actual mechanism was a bit lame in my opinion.

I really had hoped we'd get to see Snape demonstrate the precariousness of his situation, by say, being in the position of having to choose to protect either Harry or Draco (but not both), knowing that either choice would mean failure....

ooo yes i quite agree

Do you think Snape picked the memories that Harry recieved while he was dying, or do you think they indiscriminately leaked out?
No, I think they just bled out when he was dying. I also don't think he had time to remove any "bad" or "negative" memories.
DId you think for once that Snape ever took a liking to Harry? I think Snape cared more for Harry than he acknowledged. NOT in that "Oooh, I love him" way, but cared that Dumbledore was USING him as a "Scarcificial Pig" and other things. I don't think he ever liked Harry, but cared about his fate because of Lily. At the end, I think he made amends with Harry and giving his Memories of him and Lily was his peace offering!

Do you think Snape picked the memories that Harry recieved while he was dying, or do you think they indiscriminately leaked out?


When reading this section I assumed that the memories leaking out would be the memories most important to Snape. What would be more important then times with Lily, or the discussions that had implications for her son he was protecting?

I think that Snape had control over the memories, or at least partial control. He was looking into Harry's eyes - which were Lily's eyes - so perhaps that allowed him to think of "anything Lily". Judging by the lack of other conversations between Lily and Snape, I think he had enough control to only give the "important" ones.

:upset: I need to calm down

I felt bad. Seeing Snape go like that. I always felt Snape should of survived. I wanted Snape to kill Voldermort.

I found it very hard to hate Snape, ever since I read about him killing Dumbledore, I was going Dumbledore was already dying. He was like 150 years old. That's the only reason why Snape did it. That's what I was drawing to. He did nothing for Burbage though, and he almost killed George by what I heard. I knew something was wrong though when he ran off though in the middle of the battle.

I always felt Harry Potter would save Snape, I just couldn't hate Snape, I always believed there was something good inside of him. And it was good to read about his tale. He was never evil he was just misunderstood. I'm really glad Harry called his first son Albus Severus Potter.

Maybe if Harry found the truth before Snape died he would of saved him the same way he saved McGonavale(sorry i can't think of the right spelling now.)

But it was right. Though I wished if it had to be Voldermort he should of stood and fight instead of letting a snake do the work.

I think he despised a part of Harry Potter because he looked a lot like James Potter who used to make fun of him, and who stole Lily from him he felt. But the other part he saw Lily in him, and that's what made him spare his life all the time.

Snape could never let Harry know, because he would of never understood until afterwards.

I hoped too that Harry will finally save Snape, either from Voldemort or even from other OotP members.

I found it very sad to kill Snape that way, he really deserved to survive.
Well, I believe it's part of his destiny to be misunderstood and hated. It was so since his childhood. But still, I thought Dumby could have done something for the only one he could completely trust and confess to.

Do you believe it was necessary?

Unfortunately, yes. It didn't seem to be a part of Dumbledore's plan but Snape was in a very dangerous position spying on Voldemort which always meant his life would be in jeopardy. After "murdering" Dumbledore it is unlikely that the Order would believe him to be innocent without the Pensieve memories. It would be difficult to redeem him without killing him.

Did you see it coming?

I thought he would die but not the way he did.

What did you think about how he died?

I was expecting it but it was a shock! It came out of the blue and it was a particularly unpleasant way to die, being bitten by a snake and bleeding to death. He'd have been alone if it Harry, Ron and Hermione hadn't been there. If Voldemort wanted him dead I would have expected him to use the killing curse, not the snake.

And how did you feel about it, are you sad, happy, or in total shock still?

Sad. He wasn't always a particularly nice person but he was with Dumbledore and he was one of my favourite characters in the series.

Do you believe it was necessary?

I think it probably was. I think he had to die sooner or later, and of course, Harry needed to find out that he was a Horcrux. However, I thought he woud have died differently.

Did you see it coming?

I always thought he would die. And as soon as I read that he was in the Shrieking Shack with Voldemort, I knew it was over for him. :(

What did you think about how he died?

I would have liked him to die fighting. But then again, the fact that Snape didn't bother to protect himself from Nagini shows that he was ready for death and was in too much emotional pain to carry on.

His death actually reminded me of a real life death from WW2. I had watched the Anne Frank film a few years ago, and it mentioned at the very end that one of her friends died the day before the Americans rescued people from the concentration camps. It just made me think that if Snape could've ung on and avoided Voldemort (hard I know) then he would have been able to survive.

And how did you feel about it, are you sad, happy, or in total shock still?

I'm still in shock and upset. Yet, I think Snape was ready for death. He was still a complete idiot to Harry from books 1-6, but I suppose we know why now.

I was expecting it but it was a shock! It came out of the blue and it was a particularly unpleasant way to die, being bitten by a snake and bleeding to death. He'd have been alone if it Harry, Ron and Hermione hadn't been there. If Voldemort wanted him dead I would have expected him to use the killing curse, not the snake.


I agree - that had to have been painful to get bitten...and it's a scary moment, knowing that it's coming and not being able to do anything about it.

I thought it was just Harry, but I could be wrong. I have to reread that.

The killing curse would have been faster, but I do think that Voldy suspected that Snape wanted to get to Harry to warn Harry, so he wanted to cause a bit of pain. And, he also didn't think the Eldar Wand would work for the AK, so that made it two reasons to use Nagini - one cruel, the other practical.

I was always expecting it after he killed Dumbledore, but I didn't think he would die in that manner. I always suspected he would die in a duel defending Harry. I guess as people have said, he didn't look like he wanted to carry on living. He had played his part well.

I expected a more heroic death. Fighting or something like that. In my opinion is a very sad way to die: alone, without the posibility to defend you...
Voldemort didn't bother to use the killing curse, he let Nagini to bite him...only food...a very sad way to die.
I hoped that Severus would have to fight with others DE or even with Voldemort in order to protect Harry, so Harry'd know his real motivations and Snape'd have a "good" death scene.

Do you believe it was necessary?

Yes

Did you see it coming?

yes

What did you think about how he died?

I don't think Snape wanted to die and was helpless after being trapped with the snake. I feel kind of sad about his death for those reasons. I was happy that Snape provided Harry with his memories before dying.

And how did you feel about it, are you sad, happy, or in total shock still?

I'm mostly indifferent. I'd always been curious to know why Snape had so much animosity especially towards Harry. We all know now. I'm glad Snape really was working with Dumbledore to protect Harry, but it apprears his true motivation was only the guilt of unintentionally causing Voldemort to target and kill Lilly by revealing the prophecy, and also because Harry inherited her eyes. Snape genuinely did not seem to like Harry. He was mean to children and overall just a bitter person.

why do you think voldy gave lily a chance to live, i know snape asked him but how often does voldy listen to other people??

why do you think voldy gave lily a chance to live, i know snape asked him but how often does voldy listen to other people??

Methinks it may have been something like Wormtail's silver hand and other "favors" that Voldemort grants the de's - all of these favors were designed to keep the DE's loyal to him, and to keep them thinking that it was possible to be "most favored DE".

Methinks it may have been something like Wormtail's silver hand and other "favors" that Voldemort grants the de's - all of these favors were designed to keep the DE's loyal to him, and to keep them thinking that it was possible to be "most favored DE".

yeh most probably!

The death was kinda abrupt. I would've preferred if Snape could've told Harry everything personally and then died in battle, instead of something this unheroic...but at least the truth came out when Harry looked at his memories in the Pensieve

I agree. Overall, I liked the book and don't have a huge problem with how JKR ended it all, but it seemed to me like Snape might have had a little more heroic end than he got.
Having him standing there, pleading for more time with Riddle and then Nagini just taking him out was a bit anticlimactic.
It was quite sad and emotional that he wanted one last look into Harry's eyes before he bought it. Liked that bit.

i would have loved to see how the characters bonded once harry found out he was inncent and see how they reacted

Can anyone imagin how he would have reacted?

Snape's death was necessary. Why? There was no way he could go back to the "good" side. He was hated by so many.

You could see his death coming a mile away. The way he died was terrible! He did not even get a chance to protect himself.

When he first died I was Happy that he was gone. Then you got to see that his whole life was spent protecting Harry, for Lily of course. I could not help but feel sad that he was gone.

Personally, overall I would have preferred Snape to live, because it would have been more emotional. Snape and Harry would have to come to terms with each other, and acknowledge their positive sides and apologize for the wrongs they did.
But, as it were, Snape did die. I’ve been expecting his death since the end of book 4, as he was being sent to spy for Dumbledore again, and he was sent late. Then again at the end of book 5, Snape was responsible for Voldemort’s failure, and I was sure he would figure it out. Then, at the end of book 6, I again felt he would die, but this time I thought it would be the Order members who did it. How ironic, then, that Voldemort did kill Snape, but not because of anything Snape did to hinder Voldemort’s plans. XD

I have a love/hate relationship with his death. One side of me loves it. It was unromantic, unheroic, and cold. Snape didn’t go out in an explosion, he didn’t have time to make a huge parting speech, and he didn’t shove anything in Voldemort’s face. The death wasn’t even necessary! In the end, his death was real.

And while I said the death was unheroic, I think he died heroically. He died trying to get away so he could warn Harry. He died working for Dumbledore, at great expense, even though I’m sure Snape would have loved to do something to Voldemort himself, as revenge for Lily, he held out onto Dumbledore’s plans instead.

But the other side of me hated his death. And most of the reason is that there was no closure to it. Snape dies. Harry names his son after him. The end. Well, wait a minute, what happened in between? I wanted to see the internal struggle as Harry processed this new information! I wanted to see Harry forgive Snape. *pouts*

*Hugs WimbleMimble*

I think Harry had forgiven Snape by the time he faced Voldemort for the second time in "Flaw in the Plan." His speech about Snape rocked! :)

In my fool's heart I thought maybe JKR would just let Snape lose a limb - and Harry would have to defend him. As it was, Harry defended him after he was already dead.

My only consolations are these - after much thought over two weeks:

Snape died a lowly death, but it wasn't in vain - his memories helped Harry defeat Voldemort.

He's a parallel now to many great heroic characters: Sydney Carton in Tale of Two Cities and Dante in the Divine Comedy, not to mention that his story reads like a Greek Tragedy.

The line "He was the bravest man I ever knew" is right out of "To Kill a Mockingbird" when Scout thinks that about her father, Atticus Finch - one of the best moral characters/father-figures in all of literature.

With the snake, Snape is a parallel to Mr. Weasley, only this time, Harry couldn't save the victim. The epigram from the Libation Bearers refers to the "dark gods under the ground" and the "hemorrhage that none can staunch." All references to Snape and the snake.

The whole tragic love story about Lily is just beautiful, and so is the "Silver Doe." That image is one for the ages. :love:

If he had lived, would that be as meaningful? While I still feel sorry for Snape's character, I know that he will never be called a "minor character" again. :)

Do you believe it was necessary? Yes I believe Severus Snape's Death was necessary. There are two reasons for me saying "Yes".
The main reason being, I don't think he could have survived and lived like the other Characters. He wouldn't be able to lead a happy, normal life like the other Characters. Also, I've felt all along he wasn't a happy Character.
His death also gave Harry the kick in the rear he needed to defeat Voldemort. He defended Severus, set the record straight. I also believe he was fueled by Snape's love for Lily. Harry really saw and accepted the truth when he saw "The Prince's" Memories. He knew Snape was telling the truth, which he wouldn't have if they met @ Godrick's Hollow or some other place and started dueling. Also, the way Severus died, gave these two MEN a chance to come to amends. The moment Harry came to Snape's side was such a profound moment. Harry grew up in that very moment.
Through his Death and his Memories, Severus did help Harry kill Tom Riddle.

Did you see it coming? Yes, I've been resigned to the fact Severus Snape would die before the ending of "Deathly Hallows". For a long time, I thought he would die. So, yes, I saw it coming.

What did you think about how he died? Well it was a lot different from how I pictured him dying. I so wanted to see him go down in a "Blaze of Glory" so to speak. I wanted to see him physically duking/dueling it out with a Death Eater.
However, I thought how he died was in his own way Heroic. If you re-read "The Elder Wand" pay attention to his body language, especially his eye contact. He never looked Voldemort in the eyes. He was watching Nagini. He was lying to Voldemort, who could have broken into his mind and saw he was lying.
Also, to see a Man who was normally cold, aloof, "never wore his heart on his sleeve" being so scared his face turned "stone-like" and sheet white really bothered me. It churned my stomach. We've never seen Severus Snape THAT frightened.

And how did you feel about it, are you sad, happy, or in total shock still? Actually, Severus Snape's death shocked me more than other Characters' deaths. He had that "immortality" factor about him. Right now I'm still in shock. It also saddened me.
However, I'm kind of happy. NOT happy he died, but happy that he's at peace. When he said "Look....at....me" and locked eyes with Harry, I think the "thing" which left his eyes was the guilt and hatred Snape had. He finally was at peace,the moment Harry looks in his eyes, Snape stops struggling and slips away. This I think was his own, personal reprieve. He finally got a break from people judging him, looking at him with that "Once a Death Eater, ALWAYS a Death Eater", greasy git. He also got a reprieve from his own hate, loathing and guilt.
Snape was NOT a happy Character. Even if he did live, was vindicated, exonerated on all charges, received a public apology, etc, I don't see him being truly satisified.

I think the death was fitting. He was a miserable, bitter, spiteful, bully his whole life. He treated Harry horribly and he treated others just as badly. He hated Harry to the day he died and obsessed over Harry's mother. His only attributes were that he came to value human life (tho he still didn't care about anyone, just no longer allowed them to die) and he wanted Voldemort to die (for the wrong reason, to avenge Lily's death rather than the good cause).

Consequently, I think a snake gobbling him up was a perfect ending. My only regret was that Harry acceeded to his final wish and looked into his eyes so he could "see" Lily one last time. He didn't deserve that because he selfishly never could see the holder of those eyes as a valuable person.

he wanted Voldemort to die (for the wrong reason, to avenge Lily's death rather than the good cause).

But that is the same reason Harry goes after Voldemort, to avenge his parents. Yes, I think he realizes that he is saving the world, but ultimatly, to Harry, this is the man that killed his parents. And no one questions Harry about it.

I think the death was fitting. He was a miserable, bitter, spiteful, bully his whole life. He treated Harry horribly and he treated others just as badly.

So because this man is bitter, due mostly to the fact that he has had hardly any good memories and knows that he led to his own downfall, and was 'cruel' to Harry he deserved to die? Bitten by a snake? I simply can't see it.

The whole tragic love story about Lily is just beautiful, and so is the "Silver Doe." That image is one for the ages. :love:

If he had lived, would that be as meaningful? While I still feel sorry for Snape's character, I know that he will never be called a "minor character" again

I know, that is another reason that I liked his death. There are just times when I am struck with this overwhelming feeling that Snape could have played a bigger part in rebuilding the wizarding world. But, I think he died happy, looking into Lily's eyes. So, that makes me happy.

But that is the same reason Harry goes after Voldemort, to avenge his parents. Yes, I think he realizes that he is saving the world, but ultimatly, to Harry, this is the man that killed his parents. And no one questions Harry about it.
Yes, Dumbledore points that out to Harry in OotP - that in killing Harry's parents, Voldemort brought about the very thing he was trying to stop - someone who wanted to "vanquish" him.

Snape is in the same boat. :)

If Voldemort hadn't wanted to attack and then kill Lily, Snape wouldn't have reformed. But Voldemort doesn't understand real love, or what motivates people who care about others.

My only consolations are these - after much thought over two weeks:

Snape died a lowly death, but it wasn't in vain - his memories helped Harry defeat Voldemort.

You're forgetting one other consolation: He can finally follow Lily at last. I think Snape wanted to follow her in death ever since the night she died, but he kept struggling for 17 years, and finally made himself more than worthy of seeing her again.

It wasn't nice,the way he died.i mean his death could have been a bit more heroic,but still the way he loved Lily all hs life and put himself in danger to protect her son was touching.It shows that first impressions are not last impressions.I literally cried reading "The Prince's Tale".

But that is the same reason Harry goes after Voldemort, to avenge his parents. Yes, I think he realizes that he is saving the world, but ultimatly, to Harry, this is the man that killed his parents. And no one questions Harry about it. .

Ah but therein lies the distinction. Harry, in the end, when he thought he could no longer avenge his parents by killing Voldemort, sacrificed himself for the cause. That is in the final act of Deathly Hallows - following all of the other thoughts he had in the other books.



So because this man is bitter, due mostly to the fact that he has had hardly any good memories and knows that he led to his own downfall, and was 'cruel' to Harry he deserved to die? Bitten by a snake? I simply can't see it.
.

It is no secret that when I finished the book I was not a big fan of Snape's.


There are just times when I am struck with this overwhelming feeling that Snape could have played a bigger part in rebuilding the wizarding world.

-- :no: --

I think the death was fitting. He was a miserable, bitter, spiteful, bully his whole life. He treated Harry horribly and he treated others just as badly. He hated Harry to the day he died and obsessed over Harry's mother. His only attributes were that he came to value human life (tho he still didn't care about anyone, just no longer allowed them to die) and he wanted Voldemort to die (for the wrong reason, to avenge Lily's death rather than the good cause).

You definitely don't like Snape, do you? You allow him only the undeniable merits, quite reluctantly, and are very quick to remind everyone of his horrible sides. I disagree, needless to say. First of all, nobody is obliged to care about people in any way. He cared about Lily and lost her. He couldn't find it in himself to care about anyone else over again. I think that's logical and understandable and far from reproachable. If anything, it calls for sympathy.

Secondly, if you could find any proof anywhere that his motivation was revenge, please do us all the service of posting it here, because I personally am getting gradually more and more frustrated by this continuous attributing of Snape's good actions to his desiring revenge without anyone actually bothering to back it up with some canon.

And are saying that because of all the listed things he deserved to die? everyone dies in the end. Death doesn't seem to be only for those who 'deserve' it.

Consequently, I think a snake gobbling him up was a perfect ending. My only regret was that Harry acceeded to his final wish and looked into his eyes so he could "see" Lily one last time. He didn't deserve that because he selfishly never could see the holder of those eyes as a valuable person.

Well, I personally think you're being cruel. And it's not up to any of us to decide whether he deserved to see her eyes again or not, it's up to the author who seems to feel he did.

And the last sentence of your post is, mildly put, confusing. Can you support the staement that he never saw Lily as a valuable person? It just sounds utterly at odds with canon to me.

Can you support the staement that he never saw Lily as a valuable person? It just sounds utterly at odds with canon to me.

Oh, I don't know. There seem to be plenty of people here desperate to jump on the romantic "Saint Severus - The Misunderstood Hero" bandwagon. I personally was never particularly impressed by his character and found him to be unnecessarily mean and bitter.

I think it's a very valid conclusion that Snape's connection to Lily was rooted in self-service and that the role he played for Dumbledore was at least as much for the power he felt it gave him (as evidenced by his continuous taunting of Sirius) as for some noble, if unhealthy, dedication to Lily.

Oh, I don't know. There seem to be plenty of people here desperate to jump on the romantic "Saint Severus - The Misunderstood Hero" bandwagon. I personally was never particularly impressed by his character and found him to be unnecessarily mean and bitter.

Define 'unnecessarily'. Because I think it was strictly in character and therefore necessary. Not to mention the need to keep him ambiguous until the end.

I think it's a very valid conclusion that Snape's connection to Lily was rooted in self-service and that the role he played for Dumbledore was at least as much for the power he felt it gave him (as evidenced by his continuous taunting of Sirius) as for some noble, if unhealthy, dedication to Lily.

I can still see no support or even reasoning for this kind of statements. I would be seriously grateful if somebody cared for providing some.

Define 'unnecessarily'. Because I think it was strictly in character and therefore necessary. Not to mention the need to keep him ambiguous until the end.

From a literary point of view it was, in fact, necessarily to keep him ambiguous. However, I found his treatment of Harry a bit too over the top- especially considering that he's an adult and Harry was a boy of 11 when they first met. As noble as his character proved to be, his treatment of Harry is a real stumbling block. If I were on the committee to canonize (har.) St. Severus I might be a tough sell either way :)

Was he being mean to Harry to keep his cover or simply because he was angry at being reminded of Lily (and James)? In either case, might it not been just as effective if he'd just ignored Harry, or merely been distant without being cruel?

But that is the same reason Harry goes after Voldemort, to avenge his parents. Yes, I think he realizes that he is saving the world, but ultimatly, to Harry, this is the man that killed his parents. And no one questions Harry about it. I disagree with you on this. Snape may have been motivated to save Harry for reasons that were not altruistic, but the same is not true for Harry. Why did he try to save the stone in the very first book? It wasn't to avenge his parents, it was to stop Voldemort from returning and killing others. In the Horcrux chapter in HBP Dumbledore talks to Harry about what the propechy means. Harry says that he would want to stop Voldemort, because he needs to be stopped. In the Kings Cross scene, Harry had the choice to move on to the afterlife or return to fight Voldemort. He returned for the greater good. Revenge is a negative emotion. It cannot be used to fuel good deeds.


I know, that is another reason that I liked his death. There are just times when I am struck with this overwhelming feeling that Snape could have played a bigger part in rebuilding the wizarding world. But, I think he died happy, looking into Lily's eyes. So, that makes me happy. I would like to think that Snape died happy. He deserved to be happy.

Define 'unnecessarily'. Because I think it was strictly in character and therefore necessary. Not to mention the need to keep him ambiguous until the end.

As Lillbet indicated, Snape was moderately vicious to Harry from day one. And while he was unpleasant to all non-Slytherins (especially Gryffindors), it was clear that he was out to get Harry from the start. Regardless of his "disguise", I found this behavior from a grown man and an authority figure toward a child that he knows has had no exposure to the wizarding world and his fame, to be disgusting. Even in retrospect, I don't see any of his hidden motives to be justification for the psychological abuse he dished out.


I can still see no support or even reasoning for this kind of statements. I would be seriously grateful if somebody cared for providing some.

I think it's every bit as valid to conclude that Snape's initial friendship to Lily was rooted in the need to be acknowledged and desperate grasping at someone, anyone, that paid attention to him. I never saw any evidence that Snape loved Lily for who she was. All I saw was evidence that he loved the way she made him feel. That's not love. Love is sacrificial, not self-serving. I think it was all about him, not about her.

Even after her death, it was about him. His guilt. His failure. Lily may have been a catalyst, but I see little in the actual text to indicate that his love for Lily was deep and genuine. Because, if it had been, then that love would have overshadowed her choice of husband. And even Dumbledore admitted that Snape's hatred of James was more powerful than he expected.

I know this makes you very angry. And I'm sorry. But I just don't agree with the canonization of Snape. I think he died as he grew up: never having known or felt true love in his life.

Snape was abused all his life and he was abused in death as well by the so called wise and great Dumbledore who did not see it fit to tell a man who has been living such a dangerous life especially since Voldemort resurrected that Harry would survive. Snape died thinking all that he did for Lily Potter's son's sake was in vain as Harry too would die.

For a man who had convinced Voldemort and all of his death eaters that he is one of them for so many years I find it baffling that Snape was not trusted that his Occlumency would allow him to keep the secret. Unfortunately he was not accorded dignity even in death. Dumbledore kept him away from everyone and made the most hated man next to Voldemort.

I feel for Snape especially after I read the web interwiew here on Mugglenet that Lily might have even been romantically inclined towards him had he not been attracted towards the dark side.

Poor Snape, so alone in life and horrible in death as he was not even allowed to fight, but just stood there as Nagini killed him.

TRAGIC

As Lillbet indicated, Snape was moderately vicious to Harry from day one. And while he was unpleasant to all non-Slytherins (especially Gryffindors), it was clear that he was out to get Harry from the start. Regardless of his "disguise", I found this behavior from a grown man and an authority figure toward a child that he knows has had no exposure to the wizarding world and his fame, to be disgusting. Even in retrospect, I don't see any of his hidden motives to be justification for the psychological abuse he dished out.

I actually agree with this. I just don't think it negates his heroic qualities or diminishes his worth for the plot, as it's been repeatedly insinuated.

I think it's every bit as valid to conclude that Snape's initial friendship to Lily was rooted in the need to be acknowledged and desperate grasping at someone, anyone, that paid attention to him.

Only he sought her out long beofre she even knew he existed, let alone started paying attention to him. His initial interest, therefore can't have been because he loved the attention.

I never saw any evidence that Snape loved Lily for who she was.

And did you see any evidence that Harry loves Hermione for who she is? I think we're supposed to surmise that he did (especially as it grew to become the meaning of his life), since there was no evidence to the contrary, nor any hints that he didn't.

All I saw was evidence that he loved the way she made him feel. That's not love. Love is sacrificial, not self-serving. I think it was all about him, not about her.

And that evidence is? You haven't provided it yet.

Even after her death, it was about him. His guilt. His failure.

What makes you think so? I read it differently, for example, so it can't have been that straightforward, can it? And something else. I think it has been made very clear in the series, and especially in DH, that remorse is a huge theme and a feeling that differentiate the worthy, and that has the power to cleanse people of their sins. Which, in Snape's case, was done in Harry's forgiveness and understanding. So there's nothing wrong with remorse, which is usually the result of guilt, yes.

Lily may have been a catalyst, but I see little in the actual text to indicate that his love for Lily was deep and genuine. Because, if it had been, then that love would have overshadowed her choice of husband. And even Dumbledore admitted that Snape's hatred of James was more powerful than he expected.

This is only natural if you consider Snape's general disposition. The 'rising above' attitude would have been plainly out of character for Snape.

I know this makes you very angry.

Actually it doesn't. This assumption, however, tends to do so.

But I just don't agree with the canonization of Snape. I think he died as he grew up: never having known or felt true love in his life.

Firstly, I have never declared myslef in allegiance with this canonization movement, if there even is one. Secondly, your last sentence just contradicts canon, as Jo herself said that what he felt for Lily was love. This is the word she used. So that one's final. It was love.

as Jo herself said that what he felt for Lily was love. This is the word she used. So that one's final. It was love.

Yes, it was.

I think one of the most important lessons of this last book is that love is not just something which can save a person, or make a person happy.

Love has a dark side, as well - and if it's twisted or tortured or denied, it can burn the inside of someone's soul, and even kill.

Throughout the previous books, we saw Dumbledore advocating love as the great positive power that it is.

In this final book, we now see the other side of love - the side that Snape was forced to endure.

I was really sad by Snape's Death! throughout the whole series I was convinced that he was Evil and true to the Dark Lord. After learning about his childhood and lily and everything else I felt horrible, after all this time he was really a good guy. Before I read the book I knew snape would most likely die but NOT the way he did, he was truly a heroic Character even though he really didnt get to prove himself worthy physcially only though his memories I really thought he would die fighting being as he is a Great and Powerful wizard! I had always liked Snape even when I was convinced he was Evil, Snape is definetly one of a kind.

but I see little in the actual text to indicate that his love for Lily was deep and genuine

That was a more interesting finding than the obsessive love. I simply suggest you may have to re-read the book. To save your time, maybe just the bit that Snape said he was willing to give "Anything" to save the Potters; and the part that he cried over Lily's letter and kept it just for two lines: "Lots of Love, Lily"...But, of course, everyone has his different understanding of "love". Snape's act, to me, was true and great love. To others, it was obsession and too much. And obviously, it was nothing to Tromos who may just have a very high standard for deep love. But I am just curious. I raised a similar question elsewhere. After Lily's death, what do you think Snape should have done instead if he had some "deep love" of your understanding?

I actually agree with this. I just don't think it negates his heroic qualities or diminishes his worth for the plot, as it's been repeatedly insinuated.

Plot? Oh I hope I never implied that Snape's character diminished or was unimportant to the plot. Quite the contrary. I think the deep unfairness of the way he treated Harry was critical to the message that Harry, while heroic, was human and had his own character flaws. Hero, yes. Divine savior, no.


Only he sought her out long beofre she even knew he existed, let alone started paying attention to him. His initial interest, therefore can't have been because he loved the attention.

By hiding in the bushes, gazing "hungrily", and jumping out to haughtily lord his knowledge over Lily and Petunia? Oh, I think it was all about the attention.


And did you see any evidence that Harry loves Hermione for who she is? I think we're supposed to surmise that he did (especially as it grew to become the meaning of his life), since there was no evidence to the contrary, nor any hints that he didn't.

I guess my surmising took a different path.


And that evidence is? You haven't provided it yet.

I don't really need any. I stated it as my personal perspective based on my character analysis of Snape.


And something else. I think it has been made very clear in the series, and especially in DH, that remorse is a huge theme and a feeling that differentiate the worthy, and that has the power to cleanse people of their sins. Which, in Snape's case, was done in Harry's forgiveness and understanding. So there's nothing wrong with remorse, which is usually the result of guilt, yes.

This, I admit, is an excellent point. You're right. The underlying theme of redemption through remorse escaped me in this instance. This provides a powerful contrast between Snape and Voldemort. I should think about this some more. Thank you.


This is only natural if you consider Snape's general disposition. The 'rising above' attitude would have been plainly out of character for Snape.

I agree. It would be out of character for someone who is fundamentally self-consumed.


Actually it doesn't. This assumption, however, tends to do so.

My apologies. I thought I sensed budding anger and frustration. But that was my inference, not necessarily your implication.


Secondly, your last sentence just contradicts canon, as Jo herself said that what he felt for Lily was love. This is the word she used. So that one's final. It was love.

Technically I would argue that canon exists only in the texts of the books themselves. You are, however, quite correct. Jo made it perfectly clear that Snape truly loved Lily and sacrificed his life for her (or at least in her memory). Again, armed with that piece of additional information, I clearly need to allow for a more noble character in Severus Snape than I did initially.

i see snape as a hero, but some people don't. But if they don't see him as a hero what do they see him as?

I see him more along the lines of Tromos and more like JKRowling described him in her dateline interview--as an unpleasant, damaged bully. I really can't see any heroic aspects of his personality, but the heroics of his actions are for me outweighed by his everyday and entirely gratuitous cruelty.

I know this makes you very angry. And I'm sorry. But I just don't agree with the canonization of Snape. I think he died as he grew up: never having known or felt true love in his life.
I'll quote some canon-ization if you will not:



"Severus Snape wasn't yours. Snape was Dumbledore's from the moment you started hunting down my mother. And you never realized it, because of the thing you can't understand. You never saw Snape cast a Patronus, did you, Riddle?"

Voldemort did not answer . . .

"Snape's Patronus was a doe," said Harry, "the same as my mother's, because he loved her nearly all of his life, from the time when they were children. You should have realized . . . He was Dumbledore's spy from the moment you threatened her and he's been working against you ever since!"


Notice that Harry repeats it twice, so that there is no doubt. Snape was working against Voldemort all the time, he was Dumbledore's Man, he was not sick or twisted, or he couldn't have made the Patronus that was the same as Lily's!

He did know love - he loved Lily and he changed his life because of it. That is the "power the Dark Lord knows not."
If you can show canon to negate all that, please do.

Do you believe it was necessary?
no comment

Did you see it coming?
yes

What did you think about how he died?
i thought it was the next worst death next to Crabbe's.

And how did you feel about it, are you sad, happy, or in total shock still?
i felt(and still feel) all those emotions except for happy

I wasn't surprised about the fact that Snape died, but I was surprised by the way he was killed. I was expecting that if he died, it would be because Voldemort found out he was a spy. I think Snape's death shows just how selfish and power hungry Voldemort was, and how little he cared about anyone. He didn't care that he was killing who he thought was one of his best supporters, as long as he got the wand he wanted.

Questions:

Do you believe it was necessary?
No

Did you see it coming?
As I said, sort of, but not in that way.

What did you think about how he died?
It was cheap.

And how did you feel about it, are you sad, happy, or in total shock still?
Sad :(

[QUOTE=Hunter;4630880]This thread is so that you may discuss your reaction to Severus Snape's death.

Do you believe it was necessary?no, but i think his purpose was served, now that voldemort is gone, snape doesn't have much else to live for.

Did you see it coming? kind of, but i thought he'd die helping harry, or because voldemort found out about his double act. im glad voldemort didn't though, because in that way snape won.

What did you think about how he died? honestly, it seems like a plot device for the memories to be given to harry. actually, it kind of shows voldemort's regret of killing snape, because he set his snake to do it, he didn't actually want to. so maybe there is some human in voldemort after all.

And how did you feel about it, are you sad, happy, or in total shock still? im not sad or happy about it, snape was a tortured person and wouldn't have done anyone any good. he wouldn't have done an ebenezer scrooge and become a happy joyous man, he would have continued to be bitter.

i thought he'd die helping harry, or because voldemort found out about his double act. im glad voldemort didn't though, because in that way snape won.I agree. Snape won. Voldemort never knew that Snape was a spy. Even to the utter end. That makes me glad, too.

I was sad that Snape died because I was sure that he was good and it was proven. It seems, however, that there was no way out of it. Harry's side believed that he was evil for killing Dumbledore and probably would have taken him out eventually if it meant winning the war. But it was Voldemort who killed him and it's no surprise because Voldemort has no friends and would kill anyone if he saw it as a personal gain.

Snape need not have died as he had paid time and again for his crimes to the society. But he died. Okay, but did he have die die like that? So pathertically?

He was the other hero of the series, the anti hero if you like, the most intriguing and mysterious character of the sven books. His death could have been avoided and if he did have to die he could have died in a more heroic manner.

By hiding in the bushes, gazing "hungrily", and jumping out to haughtily lord his knowledge over Lily and Petunia? Oh, I think it was all about the attention.

I didn't like the greedy aspect either, but I think that they became true friends after all, and that he did love her. When he said "It doesn't make any difference." when she asked if it mattered that she is Muggle-born, I cried, I really did, because you could see he cared about her, and he saw her as someone very special. I do believe he was the best friend to Lily he could be and loved her for who she was. His Patronus is a manifestation of that.

I guess my surmising took a different path.

If there's nothing to point to the negative, usually the positive is taken as read.

I don't really need any. I stated it as my personal perspective based on my character analysis of Snape.

OK then. Of course, perspective is subjective, and it's natural that people's opinions should vary.

This, I admit, is an excellent point. You're right. The underlying theme of redemption through remorse escaped me in this instance. This provides a powerful contrast between Snape and Voldemort. I should think about this some more. Thank you.

:blush: I'm very glad :)

I agree. It would be out of character for someone who is fundamentally self-consumed.

Really, I haven't seen any evidence of him being self-consumed. I thought he was self-neglected, if there was such a word. He spent his whole adult life working for Dumbledore in the memory of Lily, and he never thought of his own safety or comfort. I don't think that qualifies as self-consumed.

My apologies. I thought I sensed budding anger and frustration. But that was my inference, not necessarily your implication.

I do feel frustrated from time to time when reading some of the posts, but that wasn't the case with the post you quoted.

Technically I would argue that canon exists only in the texts of the books themselves. You are, however, quite correct. Jo made it perfectly clear that Snape truly loved Lily and sacrificed his life for her (or at least in her memory). Again, armed with that piece of additional information, I clearly need to allow for a more noble character in Severus Snape than I did initially.

But there is evidence in the text as well - Harry says he loved her. And we can't really see it as Harry's assumptions, because this is the final book and it can't be confronted. So if Harry says it was love, then it was.

But there is evidence in the text as well - Harry says he loved her. And we can't really see it as Harry's assumptions, because this is the final book and it can't be confronted. So if Harry says it was love, then it was.

I'll take Jo's word over Harry's. I can count on less than one finger the number of teenage boys I've met that have the slightest idea what love really is. granted, harry learned the value of sacrificial love earlier than most, but still...

I'll take Jo's word over Harry's. I can count on less than one finger the number of teenage boys I've met that have the slightest idea what love really is. granted, harry learned the value of sacrificial love earlier than most, but still...

But, essentially, Jo is saying Snape loved Lily. Not only through Harry, but in the text. His actions speak for themselves.

As I was one of the "Snape is not evil" campaigners, and also considering that Snape is so easily the kind of character that tickles your fancy in that even indecent way, I always thought something big was in store for Snape in the last book, something really huge and path altering. But Snape didnt even get enough screen time, not complaining though, because of the vast scope that had to be covered, it just wouldnt have been possible to linger on one character's plots and schemes overlong. But Snape did get his share of very deserved attention towards the end, however he went.
Yes, I expected that Snape would die, but like most people here, I have to say I thought something substantially more heroic than being killed by a snake
for such selfish reason, was planned for Snape's death. Probably one moment of weakness( Voldemort would like to call it that! ) betraying Snape's tragic undying love for Lily, one small giveaway that he was Dumbledore's man though and though after all. calling Voldemort's wrath upon himself. Or probably a glorious moment in battle taking the blast of an Avada kedavra in Harry's stead. All that, yes, but death at a snape's mercy( even be it a part of Voldemort's soul ) was just so anti climactic.
Would it have been better for Snape to have come out of the "bad" closet before dying? No, I dont think so, that would have robbed his character of the greatness that he has managed to achieve through a silent death. That makes the blow harder. Tragedy always lingers on longer than mirth.
Also what makes the character of Snape so tragic is the fact that somebody mentioned here, that unlike other order members who also had tough lives, Snape had nobody to love him, to care for him.
He has his flaws of course, but he would have been a so much better person had he not faced constant ridicule and suspicion and dislike. As a child at home, it is clear he was not quite the happy james or the pampered Dudley, but a victim of constant abuse and clamor. Not a very happy childhood, like Harry perhaps, but by all the looks of it, he did not even find a home in Hogwarts like Harry did, a home with people to care for, people who care too. Voldemort did not have friends too at school, but he chose not to, having royal disdain for intellects so far inferior to his. I elieve that Snape, though really a brilliant student did not have the silky charm that Tom Riddle possesed, nor was he cool and glamorous like James or Sirius. He was a greasy boy witrh little or no social skills who found it difficult to please people, who people found difficult to like. And he lost the one person he ever cared for more than anybody else at school, to a rival who he hated for his popularity and easy life already. Maybe like one substantial gang of Death Eaters and Voldemort himself probably, he wanted to raise above the crowd, to have the kind of glory that he was never privy to in school, and thought Voldemort was the right way to go about it. And life as a Death Eater, no surprises there, no love there, nothing to be happy about. And then, retribution, the bitterest of all the episodes of his life and the longest, no better. All his life, he ahd to playa double agent, lie to a murderous maniac, a maniac who was a skilful Legilimens. ll the rest of his life, he had face constant nagging suspicion form people whose side he was supposed to be on. Dumbledore might have been some source of comfort, seeing the exchanges between the two men in Snape's memory, I am inclined to think that they did indeed share a special bond. And despite all his services, he was finally made a pariah amongst people who he fought for(for whatever reason) because of an act that he was commanded to do. He lived and died without love and his death was such a waste of life, such a throwaway, all the more tragic for the fact that he had never been happy in life. It was a different sense of pathos when Dumbledore died, one was scared for Harry, and mourned a great man's loss. But Dumbledore lined a full happy life and was old and "getting on" anyway. But Snape, the same age as Lupin who just married and had a child(and died, but atleast was loved when alive, not just by Tonks), had so much of life to go before him, albeit nobody to share it with.

So sad, he had to go that way, and I totally concur with whoever said "She couldnt ahve given him better last words". "look at me". The man who loved and lost. He was probably happier dying.

does anyone think snape actually got defeated?
he didnt put up a fight or anything. It wouldnt really matter because the elder wand wasnt snapes, but still

Snape died a pointless death. Voldy killed Snape for the wrong reason. :lol:

Can't wait to see Rickman with the Nagini bubble on his head.

does anyone think snape actually got defeated?
he didnt put up a fight or anything. It wouldnt really matter because the elder wand wasnt snapes, but still

He did struggle against the bubble, if I recall correctly. So, if Snape had been the true master of the wand, he was defeated by Voldemort. I think.

I cried over Snape's death. It was the saddest thing ever. He is still an idiot and unfair for treating Harry like that. If he really had that much feeling for Lily, I think he should have treated her only son nicely.

I personnally was'nt surprised by Snape's Death. I expected his death and I also expected that Voldy would be his murder. I wasn't that good in my future-telling but it could nevertheless have pleased Trelawney. ^^ I'm glad he was wise enough to not let Voldy and let Harry know where laid his loyalty.

I admit I was very mistaken on that topic! Excuse-me for believing you were on your own side, Sev! May you rest in peace!

Hi. I think it was necessary for Snape to die, because we found out by his death, that he was all the time on the good side and betrayed Voldemort all the time. Otherwise, Harry would have never known that Snape was actually his friend and he would hated him all the time. I saw it coming, but not like that. I thought Harry or the Order would kill him, but Voldemort betrayed him for the Elder Wand. After the Snape memories' chapter, I was sad that Snape died.

I cried over Snape's death. It was the saddest thing ever. He is still an idiot and unfair for treating Harry like that. If he really had that much feeling for Lily, I think he should have treated her only son nicely.
Sheer idiocy, deceiving Voldemort.

To be fair, Harry would've never listened to Snape if he tried to tell him why he killed Dumbledore. And if he forced Harry to listen, Harry wouldn't believe him..

thats what i thought. i think this was the best way for harry to really see that snape was good after all.

I'll quote some canon-ization if you will not:



"Severus Snape wasn't yours. Snape was Dumbledore's from the moment you started hunting down my mother. And you never realized it, because of the thing you can't understand. You never saw Snape cast a Patronus, did you, Riddle?"

Voldemort did not answer . . .

"Snape's Patronus was a doe," said Harry, "the same as my mother's, because he loved her nearly all of his life, from the time when they were children. You should have realized . . . He was Dumbledore's spy from the moment you threatened her and he's been working against you ever since!"


Notice that Harry repeats it twice, so that there is no doubt. Snape was working against Voldemort all the time, he was Dumbledore's Man, he was not sick or twisted, or he couldn't have made the Patronus that was the same as Lily's!

He did know love - he loved Lily and he changed his life because of it. That is the "power the Dark Lord knows not."
If you can show canon to negate all that, please do.

Good point, SIP. This seems quite clear to me. :tu:

I agree with many of you who say that it was necessary for Snape to die. He was definately unhappy in life because of all the hatred he has faced and lack of love (ex. lily, marauder, father, etc.), and the last person who trusted/respected him was dead (Dumbledore). After so many years of this, I doubt he could ever become happy because the damage was permanant. Snape had no one in his life and I guess you could kind of say that there was no longer any point of him living. He would be happier (more peaceful) in death. To those that say he should have died a noble death (ex. in battle): that would have been preferable but I think that J.K. Rowling had a good reason. I think the way he died made you feel even more remorse for him because even in his last minutes, no one knew that he was innocent and he would never know if people (especially Harry) would ever forgive him. If he had time to tell this to Harry personally, I don't think it would have the same affect. I'm really happy he was done justice by Harry when he told everyone (including Voldemort) that Sanpe was truly innocent. I loved the part when Harry told his Albus that he was named after Snape and even though he was a Slytherin, he was the bravest man he ever knew. It was so touching and it made me feel so sad for Snape!! He had to live a terrible life and die a terrible death. :upset: Sorry if this post was too long.

Do you believe it was necessary?
Yes - it created more thrilling action to the book

Did you see it coming?
No way!

What did you think about how he died?
It was shocking ..

And how did you feel about it, are you sad, happy, or in total shock still?
In shock still

Snape was a legend, I need to pay my respects to his memory!!!

i can't wait to see alan rickman act the finial scene of his death!!

Do you believe it was necessary?
Sadly very much so. There is no way that Harry would have understood how much Snape gave up for him and in memory of his mother.

Did you see it coming?
Yes, but not that far in advance.

What did you think about how he died?
Yes Mr. Weasley was also bitten, multiple times. But none of those strikes was to the juggular like Snape's bite was. It's not very graphic in the book, but basically he bled out, which is a pretty slow death :( And also in response to him not dying in battle...We have to remember he had been pulled from the battle so Voldy could kill him.

And how did you feel about it, are you sad, happy, or in total shock still?
Purposeful. It had to be done that way.

don't you think snape should have died saving harry or sumthing

I think people make a mistake in thinking that Severus ran away scared from McGonagall when really, he knew he had to go somewhere to find Harry. He was overpowerd by the teachers and they were really angry. He knew he had to go find Harry.

And as for those who say he didn't protect the students, I think they're madly mistaken! Not only did Severus maintain Hogwarts and its teachers, but his detentions were only going into the Forbidden Forest with Hagrid!!! That's nothing. Severus had to run the school with a bunch of students trying to drive him nuts, with teachers who all knew he'd killed their headmaster the year before (though they didn't know the circumstances), and with two crazy Death Eaters wreaking havoc. He had Dumbledore's portrait as his only means of sanity!

He had done all of this, yet ultimately, he was truly afraid of Voldemort and when Voldemort went to kill him, he couldn't even raise his wand fast enough. He had been shocked to learn that Voldemort had broken into Dumbledore's tomb and I think he was simply petrified of him. But in the end, I think he probably welcomed death once it happened. He knew he didn't have much in the living world, and he probably hoped that he would at least see Lily again. Dumbledore would be there. That sort of thing.

Also, who else loved the fact that the password he used for access to his office was "Dumbledore?"
That's what I figured too....

I loved that :clap:!! I guess Neville should have made him an honorary member of Dumbledore's Army :p :lol:...


Do you believe it was necessary? Yep, he didn't have anything really to live for anyway. He lived in order to make up for how he acted toward Lily (calling her a "Mudblood"), even though she didn't accept his apology, he still tried to make up for that mistake right up to the end.

Did you see it coming? Yea, in a way. I figured that he would be killed by Voldemort in some way.

What did you think about how he died? I thought that he would have went down fighting... but hey, at least he was able to let Harry see what really happened by giving him the memories. That in itself, was the most mature thing that Snape had ever done.

And how did you feel about it, are you sad, happy, or in total shock still? I was sad about it...

Hello, first time poster. I just finished reading all 7 books, started 18 days ago, and wow.

"Look...at...me" as his last lines and him looking into Harry's (Lily's) green eyes was truly draining. I re-read his death after reading the Prince's Tail. I am heart broken.

don't you think snape should have died saving harry or sumthing
Well he did die giving Harry information so I guess that's sort of like saving Harry. :p

Well he did die giving Harry information so I guess that's sort of like saving Harry. :p

no but him like jumping infront of AK 4 harry, tis a bit more excitin!

That's true, I always wanted to see Snape in an intense duel, he probably would have been awesome.

That's true, I always wanted to see Snape in an intense duel, he probably would have been awesome.

and aswel th3 DH movie would have been brill to see snape die dramatically or something like that.

They might change it in the movie so that Snape actually fights Voldy, just to make it more dramatic.

The main thing is that Harry knows the truth - Snape was on the side of good. I know quite a few people have been saying that they found the death scene disappointing, but the truth is that most people in the world who show enormous courage aren't going to be in the spotlight. So many lives slip away unnoticed - all we can do is try to honour good people and keep alive the memory of what they did.

Looking at Snape's death from a storytelling point of view, I was actually quite touched by what happened. Harry forgets his wish for revenge and is consumed by shock at what he's just witnessed. Snape puts aside the dislike of Harry that he's nursed for so long, helps him one last time and makes full eye contact with him. Before, Harry's only ever really been a reminder of James, but this last moment in the chapter shows Snape looking for the part of him that is Lily, unconsciously acknowledging what Dumbledore said; that Harry is her child too. I thought the tone of the scene was well-judged and very moving.

Do you believe it was necessary?
Yes, I believe it was necessary for him to die. He needed to finally find peace and with him dying I believe that's the only TRUE way he would have found it. If he would have survived he still would be carrying around all the guilt he had in him and the torment of he went through. His was never a happy life.

Did you see it coming?
I knew it was coming. I didn't think JK Rowling was going to let him live. I hoped she was but I am glad she didn't. He had to die:upset:

What did you think about how he died?
I couldn't stop crying:upset: I thought it was such a horrible way for him to die. After all he went through for him to die in such a way. I was so mad and so distraught it was unbelievable. I had to put the book down:(:(

And how did you feel about it, are you sad, happy, or in total shock still?
I am completely sadden by it. I ALWAYS loved Snape. I loved how he was the only who treated Harry like any other one of his students:tu: He was loyal to Dumbledore like noone else. He was a very BRAVE man who stuck to his guns. He never changed his ways for noone even though it costed him Lily in the end. I am glad that when he died he was able to look into Harry's eyes and find Lily amoungst them. He died looking into the eyes of the one thing that always made him HAPPY:upset:. I am still getting choked up as post this reply on this forum.

I was a bit disappointed that Snape died in such a way. Snape was indeed a powerful, skilled and brilliant wizard. I feel that he should have died more heroically, maybe in a duel with Voldemort, instead of being brought down by a snake-bite, going down with a yelp.

Still, his scene with Harry afterwards was one of the most powerful ones in the book. I can't wait to see that in the movie. And to be fair, he did get a duel scene, with Harry in HBP. I feel that Jo didn't want to give him a 'nobler' end, because Snape wasn't a 'nice' person'.

I agree with Vivekgk, Snapes death was a bit disappointing. He should have at least died a noble death in battle or something, he was such a brave man and he deserved better. However, he was a bully and not a nice person at all and I think the fact that he didn't get a noble death was sort of retribution for a life of meanness, even if he was Dumbledore's man for the last decade or so of his life.

it was a sad way to die... bitten by a snake not even given a chance to fight it out...

the reason he hated harry is because everytime he looks at him all he could see is james and he thinks harry is becoming more like james and less like lily and he hated it

Do you believe it was necessary?

I did not believe it was necessary _at all_. All the points people have brought up to determine that it was, could have been dealt with in numerous other ways just as, if not more, effectively.

Did you see it coming?

No, I honestly didn't believe she was going to anything close to this.

What did you think about how he died?

I hated it? There are a lot of things I could say.

And how did you feel about it, are you sad, happy, or in total shock still?
I won't be picking up another one of Rowlings books ever again, thats what I felt. I very nearly quit reading anymore of the book at the end of that particular chapter, I was so furious.

Do you believe it was necessary?

Yes, I do.

Did you see it coming?

I found it chilling when Snape kept asking Voldemort 'let me get to the boy' ..that right there is when you knew something was going to happen, and also Nagini being in the protective bubble..Snape eyeing it.

What did you think about how he died?

It was disturbing in the way he died..it saddened me also because he sacrificed his life to be a spy for all those years and to die in that way was just heartbreaking.


And how did you feel about it, are you sad, happy, or in total shock still?

I was shocked..and sad (still am). Snape was many things, but he did dedicate the rest of his life to protect Harry and others especially when he knew that he wasn't going to get anything in return. Severus Snape was definitely a brave man.

I won't be picking up another one of Rowlings books ever again, thats what I felt. I very nearly quit reading anymore of the book at the end of that particular chapter, I was so furious.

Why such an intense reaction? I think it illustrated a lot of the themes that have been running through the books - Voldemort's complete lack of loyalty/respect for anyone else, and the inevitability of death, for example.

I won't be picking up another one of Rowlings books ever again, thats what I felt. I very nearly quit reading anymore of the book at the end of that particular chapter, I was so furious.

Whoa. Apart from being majorly upset I thought this was a great way to finish Snape. :err: Crikey. Furious? What at?

Do you believe it was necessary?

Yes.

Did you see it coming?

Not quite, I was sure he was going to die but not in that particular fashion.

What did you think about how he died?

I liked it a lot, and I don't believe he deserved a better death. I think that his death suited him, brave and loyal as he was his hatred overpowered his love.

And how did you feel about it, are you sad, happy, or in total shock still?

Happy

I won't be picking up another one of Rowlings books ever again, thats what I felt. I very nearly quit reading anymore of the book at the end of that particular chapter, I was so furious.

Alot of readers felt the same way. Mainly due to how out of chararcter the whole scene was. How could one of the most powerful wizard be killed by a snake? How could the Potions Master bleed to death? The inventor of so many spells even before they had graduated Hogwarts. How could someone so supressed by Voldemort, who lost so much and lived the rest of their life as a spy just die without a fight? Just die without revealing themselves to Voldemort. Made to kill the only one who ever trusted him.

And to add insult to injury, Harry didn't express any emotions after the revelations of one he loathed so intensely had loved his mother until his end. There was no mention of the body being recovered and Hogwarts did not deem him worthy of a portrait after all he had sacrificed.

No wonder readers are furious.