Severus Snape's Death

I don't believe that Snape was ready to live with whichever side won. I think in a world where the V. side won, he'd have been back in the Order trying to finish what Harry started. I think he had been 'Dumbledore's man through and through' since Lily died.

Realizing that one's life has been characterized by awful errors in judgement that have terribly cost yourself and those you've cared for most has to be occasion for very deep evaluation and decision-making. It doesn't mean he was able to change his personality, etc., but it changed who he inherently was. And being a double agent with only one true loyalty, with all the danger that entails and courage it requires I think was his way of paying for his mistakes--yes I believe he was brave, I never from the time it was revealed in SS/PS that he was protecting Harry at the Quidditch match, thought he anything but a "good guy"--flawed, but on the right side all along.

I think literarily, he had to die. I can't imagine a scenario in which he'd have been able to tell Harry all those deep personal things face-to-face. It was too painful to Snape that Harry even saw James humiliating him at school. I suppose a scenario could have been set up by JKR where he could have given Harry the memory and still lived, but it's wouldn't seem to fit the story, and to think of the uncomfortable conversations and moments he'd have to have with Harry afterwards. I can't picture "Uncle Snape" around Harry's table at Christmas chatting with all the little Potters about what gifts they'd gotten. If he'd have been a different person all along, I could see that, but that was a part of his tragedy, he'd painted himself into a corner as to how he could live out his life.

As to the death itself, I was not at all surprised that he died, wouldn't have guessed the method. I think part of him knew like Dumbledore that he was a dead man walking, and that what he could do to help the cause was all that was important now. I think he wanted to get back to the school most urgently because he hadn't yet told Harry what he needed to do. If he could have cast some spell that would have killed him but allowed him to send a message to Harry, I believe he'd have done it.

I think the quick and careless manner of the death says more about Voldemort than Snape, about how V. would treat even his loyal Death Eaters like a used napkin and unceremoniously dispose of them in an offhand way without a moment's hesitation or qualm, if it would get him an inch closer to his goals. Snape might have said he deserved no better, that it was fair retribution for how he'd messed up in his life.

Snape's death is to me the most logical of all the death's in the book (apart from Voldemorts', of course). He was such a tragic figure - living all his life not knowing a moment of happiness, there was just nothing for him to live after he had fulfilled his live's pursuit of protecting Harry. I guess this makes his death even more tragic, knowing that everyone else who dies in the book at least has someone to mourn their death while Snape will me mourned by no one...

Snape's death is to me the most logical of all the death's in the book (apart from Voldemorts', of course). He was such a tragic figure - living all his life not knowing a moment of happiness, there was just nothing for him to live after he had fulfilled his live's pursuit of protecting Harry. I guess this makes his death even more tragic, knowing that everyone else who dies in the book at least has someone to mourn their death while Snape will me mourned by no one...


Aside from a gazillion readers, that is. :sad:

Aside from a gazillion readers, that is. :sad:

You know I've always wondered what characters would do if they met their fans(not possible I know yet something I wonder).Snape meeting his fans would be particularly hilarious.:lol:

I don't believe that Snape was ready to live with whichever side won. I think in a world where the V. side won, he'd have been back in the Order trying to finish what Harry started. I think he had been 'Dumbledore's man through and through' since Lily died.

Realizing that one's life has been characterized by awful errors in judgement that have terribly cost yourself and those you've cared for most has to be occasion for very deep evaluation and decision-making. It doesn't mean he was able to change his personality, etc., but it changed who he inherently was. And being a double agent with only one true loyalty, with all the danger that entails and courage it requires I think was his way of paying for his mistakes--yes I believe he was brave, I never from the time it was revealed in SS/PS that he was protecting Harry at the Quidditch match, thought he anything but a "good guy"--flawed, but on the right side all along.

I think literarily, he had to die. I can't imagine a scenario in which he'd have been able to tell Harry all those deep personal things face-to-face. It was too painful to Snape that Harry even saw James humiliating him at school. I suppose a scenario could have been set up by JKR where he could have given Harry the memory and still lived, but it's wouldn't seem to fit the story, and to think of the uncomfortable conversations and moments he'd have to have with Harry afterwards. I can't picture "Uncle Snape" around Harry's table at Christmas chatting with all the little Potters about what gifts they'd gotten. If he'd have been a different person all along, I could see that, but that was a part of his tragedy, he'd painted himself into a corner as to how he could live out his life.

As to the death itself, I was not at all surprised that he died, wouldn't have guessed the method. I think part of him knew like Dumbledore that he was a dead man walking, and that what he could do to help the cause was all that was important now. I think he wanted to get back to the school most urgently because he hadn't yet told Harry what he needed to do. If he could have cast some spell that would have killed him but allowed him to send a message to Harry, I believe he'd have done it.

I think the quick and careless manner of the death says more about Voldemort than Snape, about how V. would treat even his loyal Death Eaters like a used napkin and unceremoniously dispose of them in an offhand way without a moment's hesitation or qualm, if it would get him an inch closer to his goals. Snape might have said he deserved no better, that it was fair retribution for how he'd messed up in his life.

I can't agree more. I can't imagine any post-battle scenario either, no matter which side won, where Snape could live on both reasonably and naturally. He was created as a completely tragic character, but in my opinion, also the deepest and most touching one.
Although I really accepted the fact that Snape must die in the final book, I didn't expect the way he was killed. Even when I was reading Voldemort's conversation with Snape in the Shack, I wasn't aware that Voldemort asked him back only to kill him to gain the wand's power (which in the end turned out to be a mistake), until I finished the chapter. It was so quick, like many other deaths, which was also realistic: no excessive emotional moments before death. But it was really cruel, esp when the whole wand thing was just misunderstood by Voldemort, and Snape was actually killed in place of Draco Malfoy.
In my eyes it was the saddest scene in the whole series. Maybe sometimes powerful love and bravest characters have to be presented in a most tragic way, to fully demonstrate their influence.

I wasn't expecting him to die at all. All the way through the book I was waiting for them all to realise that Snape was good, but towards the end (when he "did a bunk"), I thought that he might actually be evil. There was absolutely no need for him to die! I hate Voldemort for that ... he's so stupid. Snape wasn't the master of the Elder Wand, Draco was! Then Harry! How could he be so ridiculous? Personally I thought it was incredibly devastating, and would have much preferred Harry to die!

i do belive that after people found out about snape's true loyalties many may have mourned his death stating he was true to dumbledore 'till the end and slytherins will miss him

Do you believe it was necessary?

Hummm, any death is necessary.

Did you see it coming?

Yes

What did you think about how he died?

Well, I think it was painful and weird

And how did you feel about it, are you sad, happy, or in total shock still?

It wa sad

Originally Posted by wickedwickedboy
I think Snape's death was symbolic of his life, just as the other deaths represented what we knew of the other character's lives, characters, demeanors, dispositions, actions etc. That is in line with JKR's assertion during the Dateline NBC interview that each death was carefully considered and well thought out.
You have made a really good point here. Snape died still playing the role of Voldemort's faithful servant. If it wasn't for the memory that Harry retrieved, no one would have known Snape's true loyalties.

I think his death was quite appropriate; killed by the same person who killed his only love. I also really like how it enforces our view of Voldemort being so cruel and uncaring, since (for all he knew) Snape was his right-hand man.

I can't quite put my finger on it--but is there some sort of connection or importance about Snape's loyalty to Voldemort leading to Voldemort killing Lily, and Snape's love for Lily leading to his own death by Voldemort?

I think his death was quite appropriate; killed by the same person who killed his only love. I also really like how it enforces our view of Voldemort being so cruel and uncaring, since (for all he knew) Snape was his right-hand man.

I can't quite put my finger on it--but is there some sort of connection or importance about Snape's loyalty to Voldemort leading to Voldemort killing Lily, and Snape's love for Lily leading to his own death by Voldemort?

i thikn Snape's loyalty for Vodamort killed Lily and James and it was because he told Voldemort the phrophecy,. But Snape got killed because Voldemort thought he was the owner of the Elder Wand, not nothing to do with Lily.

i thikn Snape's loyalty for Vodamort killed Lily and James and it was because he told Voldemort the phrophecy,. But Snape got killed because Voldemort thought he was the owner of the Elder Wand, not nothing to do with Lily.

It had to do with Lily in the sense that the entire course of Snape's later life was influenced by it. Voldemort would not have thought he needed to kill Snape if Snape had not killed Dumbledore, which Snape would not have done if he had not been DUmbledore's loyal spy, which he would not have been if he wasn't sorry about reporting the prophecy, which... you get the idea. ;)

aww i ant beolieve he died how sad is that!!

Do you believe it was necessary?

I really didn’t think it was necessary. I think it would have been a far more interesting (and of course time consuming, adding many pages) story to have had Harry confront Snape and some point and imagine a way that Snape could have won Harry over and convince Harry of the truth.

Did you see it coming?

I thought it was coming, I didn’t expect it to go down the way it did.

What did you think about how he died?

I thought it was rather odd. I would think that Voldomort would have had to kill Snape with his own hands in order to have officially defeated, who he thought, was the current master of the Elder Wand. As it happens, I don’t see how Voldomort could consider himself master of the wand after having Nagini kill Snape any more so then having Snape kill Dumbledore.

And how did you feel about it, are you sad, happy, or in total shock still?

I was disappointed. I still think it would have been more interesting to have Snape directly confront Harry.

I by no means think he deserved to die, I was actually in shock and felt for him, I was actually a little sad, even though up to that point I was definitely thinking Snape was evil he still didn't deserve that kind of gratitude from LV. I so didn't see it coming.

It made it even more sad when I figured out he did have good in him and wasn't all bad. I wish he could have lived and still been able to tell Harry everything. I wonder how their relationship would have changed given what Harry knew in the end. I wonder how Snape would have changed toward Harry.

I just realized something: the congruence beween Snape's death and the death in Chapter I of DH.

Chapter 1, Snape looks on without apparent emotion as Voldie coldly tortures and humiliates Charity Burbage, kills her and -- turns Nagini loose to consume the body.

Chapter 32, Voldemort coldly turns Nagini on Snape.

Karma?

Another similarity, Fruitia, is Snape bearing witness to Charity and Harry doing the same for Snape at time of his death.

Another similarity, Fruitia, is Snape bearing witness to Charity and Harry doing the same for Snape at time of his death.

But Harry didn't look on without emotion. He hated Snape, but he has a lot of compassion. That is what drove him to move forward afterward. Even hating Snape, he still recognized him as a human being who had just been dispassionately killed by Voldy imo.

But Harry didn't look on without emotion. He hated Snape, but he has a lot of compassion. That is what drove him to move forward afterward. Even hating Snape, he still recognized him as a human being who had just been dispassionately killed by Voldy imo.

Based on Snape's comments in "The Prince's Tale", I very much doubt he looked dispassionately on the death of Charity Burbage. There was simply nothing he could do about it, in a roomful of Death Eaters and Voldemort. Blowing his cover by reacting visibly in an emotional manner would have been pointless (even, harmful to his 'side').

Based on Snape's comments in "The Prince's Tale", I very much doubt he looked dispassionately on the death of Charity Burbage. There was simply nothing he could do about it, in a roomful of Death Eaters and Voldemort. Blowing his cover by reacting visibly in an emotional manner would have been pointless (even, harmful to his 'side').

I wasn't implying that :) I was just referring to Harry not being 'unemotional'. Snape had to be unemotional whether he wanted to or not, I agree.

I think that snape had to die realy (as much as i didnt like it) but i couldnt see him (snape) walking into the castle to find Harry (1 getting past everyone else) and then (if he did find him) simply saying come with me ill show u why i killed DD harry wouldnt of belived that and tried to curse him !

The way that it happened with harry watching him die and receiving the memories he was pushed by curiosity more than n e thing i think, couldnt have properly worked any other way sadly :(

Aside from a gazillion readers, that is. :sad:

Quoted in relation to Snape having noone to mourn his death...

So true - I had to go through the grieving process after he was ruthlessly killed off. What was JKRRr thinking killing off the most important and lovely character in the series... (please read as tongue in cheek:grumble:)

But at least he is mourned and remembered by 'gazillions' of us faithful loyal fans!

i do belive that after people found out about snape's true loyalties many may have mourned his death stating he was true to dumbledore 'till the end and slytherins will miss him
as i said before snape had to die after all he was eaten by the snake YAY SNAPE IS DEAD LETS PARTY HARDY!!!!!!!!!!

*Ahem*

Back to topic please.

It would have been interesting for Snape to have given the speach about himself Harry had to Voldemort in a duel before he was killed. But I guess then Voldy wouldn't have known that Harry and the rest of the wizard world knew.

When Snape realized that Nagini was going to kill him, he cried out in surprise and fear, but it is interesting that he didn't go for his wand at that point and try to eradicate the snake. I suppose his hands may have been bound from doing so by the casing. Not the death I expected, but I understand why it had to be that way.

I also wonder why he didn't resist, even the slightest bit. Maybe he was at the moment playing Voldy's loyal servant and didn't react quickly enough against his master?

I think it was just shock, and then, when he was put in the bubble, I don't think there was much chance of him escaping it.
I was shocked at the way died...but I'm glad it wasn't just "Avada Kedavra", that has already been used dozens of times in the book...Snape got something special! Wait...it was a more painful way of dying. Damn.
But I think it was necessary he die, because memories were a better way of showing Harry.
Snape would've had to find a way of getting Harry to talk to him without being murdered by him in the process. And telling him he loved Lily--that would've been REALLY awkward, don't you think?

Snape would've had to find a way of getting Harry to talk to him without being murdered by him in the process. And telling him he loved Lily--that would've been REALLY awkward, don't you think?

Even though I wish Snape had lived and have gone over my own wistful theories of how this could have happened and the story still worked out, I have to agree with you.

He couldn't really have told Harry he loved Lily and showed the two of them growing up together except through his memories.

If only someone had gone in after and helped Snape out - Arthur Weasly was able to recover from his snake bite:upset: Then this thread could be happily named Severus Snape's life [and perhaps his miraculous and unconvincing escape from death...]

I always kind of thought Snape was good all along...but the whole chapter "The Princes Tale" nearly brought me to tears. It was touching and heartbreaking. Snape truly was the bravest person Harry ever knew.

It would have been interesting for Snape to have given the speach about himself Harry had to Voldemort in a duel before he was killed. But I guess then Voldy wouldn't have known that Harry and the rest of the wizard world knew.

When Snape realized that Nagini was going to kill him, he cried out in surprise and fear, but it is interesting that he didn't go for his wand at that point and try to eradicate the snake. I suppose his hands may have been bound from doing so by the casing. Not the death I expected, but I understand why it had to be that way.I don't think Snape thought he was going to survive this whole ordeal no matter what. Why extend his life only to suffer at more gruesome hands? He seemed shocked that Voldemort killed him, seeing how he was Voldemort's second hand man, but it just shows how ruthless and uncaring Voldemort was. Anyone who could have gotten in his way, had to be eliminated.

I don't think Snape thought he was going to survive this whole ordeal no matter what. Why extend his life only to suffer at more gruesome hands? He seemed shocked that Voldemort killed him, seeing how he was Voldemort's second hand man, but it just shows how ruthless and uncaring Voldemort was. Anyone who could have gotten in his way, had to be eliminated.


Maybe a bit like DD not wanting a worse death at "Bella's hands" when he asks Snape to kill him.

I think it was the best way to show Voldemort's "people are object to use" POV.
And the irony of it all....didn't even get the Elder Wand to work for him better.

So really, Snape's death doesn't help LV one bit but it does aid Harry as I suspect Harry would only have believed Snape's memories and I doubt Snape would have shown Harry memories if he hadn't been dying..

So...a wee bit of irony...if LV hadn't attacked Snape...Harry likely wouldn't have got the info he needed to destroy LV.

Cause I for one, can't believe for a minute Harry would have believed Snape if had just said to him
"Yeh, really. DD says you have to let LV kill you. Really...forget I can't stand you and appear to work for LV..."

Uhuh....

I really don't think Snape was shocked at all that Voldemort killed him. He knew from the start of that scene. Thats why he was asking "let me go to the boy" so much. I find it interesting that this is only the second scene we ever see between Voldemort and Snape, the only one when they are alone, and Snape is clearly not at his silky best.

I agree that Snape was killed in such a way to demonstrate how Voldemort was really only out for himself. But I don't think Snape was the best example becuase he wasnt really a loyal follower. He knew perfectly well what Voldemort was capable of. I think it was a mark of Snape's incredible physical courage that he kept up the act to the end.

I was a little dissapointed that Snape never got to fight Voldemort. We got to see Snape Vs. McGonnagal, that had been in the works for years. But one of my DH predictions was that Snape's skill would be an aid to Harry in battle. JKR seemed to indicate that Dumbledore had considered it also with the Elder Wand. I think she chose to kill Snape without giving him a chance to fight Voldemort and declare his true loyalty openly as a last punishment for Snape to endure on the road to to redemption.

I don't really understand why Snape kept saying "let me get the boy" to Voldy at that time. Whether he knew this meeting would be the end of his life or not, it sounds a little weird to me.

Do you believe it was necessary?

Personally, I think it was. I think he was going to die due to his role in the books. Spies usually don't last long.

Did you see it coming?

I did, but I didn't. I thought he might die, but I also thought that JKR would pull a fast one and let him live. However, I did have a feeling he was a goner.

What did you think about how he died?

I think it was gruesome! I didn't like him, but man, the way he died was horrible. I felt sorry for him. :(

And how did you feel about it, are you sad, happy, or in total shock still?

I don't feel anything to be honest. :shrug:

I don't really understand why Snape kept saying "let me get the boy" to Voldy at that time. Whether he knew this meeting would be the end of his life or not, it sounds a little weird to me.

I've actually wondered about that and the only thing I can come up with is that maybe he would try to warn Harry or maybe even try to protect him in some way from Voldy.

I don't really understand why Snape kept saying "let me get the boy" to Voldy at that time. Whether he knew this meeting would be the end of his life or not, it sounds a little weird to me.
Dumbledore had told Snape that when Voldemort started to protect Nagini, it would be time to tell Harry the whole truth, that Harry was a horcrux etc. Snape was the only one who knew this information, so he was trying to get away from Voldemort to find Harry and tell him before Harry confronted Voldemort.

Dumbledore had told Snape that when Voldemort started to protect Nagini, it would be time to tell Harry the whole truth, that Harry was a horcrux etc. Snape was the only one who knew this information, so he was trying to get away from Voldemort to find Harry and tell him before Harry confronted Voldemort.

Thank you. Then could it be inferred that: Snape realized Voldy was going to kill him at that time? Because, if not, he didn't need to go tell Harry in such a hurry, or he could find Harry before he came to the shack.

I too was saddened by snapes death even if it was obvious what was coming.I just felt pity and sympathy for a sad and lonely man.

I was sad Snape died but everything fit. I loved how when he was about to die he asked Harry to look at him. It said the green eyes met the black eyes and I took that as Snape wanting to look into the eyes of Lily before he went. Since Harry had his mothers eyes.

Then could it be inferred that: Snape realized Voldy was going to kill him at that time? Because, if not, he didn't need to go tell Harry in such a hurry, or he could find Harry before he came to the shack. When Snape saw that Nagini was in the bubble, he knew that it was time to tell Harry that he was a horcrux. But I also think Snape knew that Voldemort planned to kill him. So he asked Voldemort to tell him go get Harry. It had the duel benefit of getting him away from Voldemort alive and giving the information to Harry that Dumbledore wanted him to have.

I think Harry mourned Snape's death later... He named his second Albus Severus. Also, the surviving members of the Order probably mourned a bit, once they learned that Dumbledore had arranged his own death.

What strikes me (no pun intended) is that Voldemort's answer to every problem is "kill". In Godric's Hollow he told Lily to get away from Harry; when she didn't, he could have stunned her and shoved her aside, but he killed her. A favor to one of his followers wasn't worth two acts, if the one act of killing her sufficed for his own need. Then, later, he sacrificed a gifted assistant instead of, e.g., handing the elder wand to Snape to examine and then doing "Expelliarmus".

I think that Snape wanted to find Harry so that he could "lose" him again--hide him safely from Voldemort. Then, when Snape saw Nagini, telling Harry the truth became another motive.

I agree with those who said that Snape's death was necessary from a literary point of view; there was no place for Snape in a post-Voldemort world.

Good discussion.

I thought Snape's death was one of the most wonderful scenes in the series. He was my favourite character, by far, and I, too, thought that he would die protecting Harry from Voldemort in some way. But JKR knew better, God bless her. Snape is most of all about subtlety and deeply burried emotions. What would it look like if he suddennly jumped in front of Harry yelling "Noooooo...!" ? It would seem so ridicoulus, so out of character. Snape died NOBLY, guys, trying, against all odds, to do his duty to Dumbledore and Harry, and, of course, Lily. Confronting him with Voldermort at that moment only brings out the differences between them: Voldermort's baseness and selfishness (it unhinged me, although I knew Vold was villainy personified) to Snape's heroism. And then, when on the edge of death, do his emotions surface. Deeply these are hidden - but how deeply they run. All the good that is in hin pours out of him - literally, just then. He dies looking at the eyes of the woman he loved, the woman he was loyal to, all is life. I don't see how any of you can say that this death is insignificant or pathetic.

Staff Note: Just a friendly reminder to respect other people's opinions.

I'm sorry, did my letter come out to strong? I didn't mean it... I respect everyones' opinions (though I may not understand them...), and would never pluck any eyes out, for any reason...

Poor Snape. I think he had to die as he was, to me anyway, an antihero character. I don’t know if the character would have had as much sympathy at the end if he had not forfeited his life fighting Voldemort.
I think that I always felt from the third book on that Snape would not survive. I don’t know but I expected it sooner though. I think the biggest curve I was thrown was Dumbledores death at Snapes hands. Somehow I thought Snape would disappear in the OotP.
As to how he died, if you mean in battle with Voldemort, I felt a little bit vindicated for thinking that he would turn out to be a “good” guy. I don’t know how “good” he actually was but his loyalty to Lily in the end saved her son and the wizarding world. Somehow I don’t think that Snape dies unselfishly, just obsessively, for Lily. Still I guess my thought was “Way to go Snape!” I always felt he would do something in the end to redeem himself.
The only death I did not feel badly about was Voldemort’s…well I didn’t cry about Crabb or Goyle (whichever) or Belletrix either. So I guess you could say I felt a tad teary over Snape’s. Okay maybe a lot teary. :whistle:

Do you believe it was necessary?
No death is ever necessary, but I do believe it was expected (see below) considering what a dangerous position Snape was in. Dumbledore has said several times that Snape was putting his life at risk by spying against Voldemort.

Did you see it coming?
Yes, I believed Snape would end up dying to protect Harry from Voldemort. It really wasn't a surprise for me that Snape was killed, considering his dangerous role as spy.

What did you think about how he died?
It wasn't the way I expected Snape to die. I kind of expected him to die directly protecting Harry in some way.

And how did you feel about it, are you sad, happy, or in total shock still?
Well, I felt it was expected, so I'm not really in shock. I certainly wouldn't say I'm happy about his death, but neither am I sad.

I think Snape is a hero in the way that he devoted his life to Lily, and through that died protecting Harry. He was a hero in his own way, and I wasn't suprised he died. He was a spy and constantly in danger for that role. But to be honest I wasn't sad nor happy that Snape died. I was indifferent. I still hold a grudge at him for treating Harry bad all those years.

Do you believe it was necessary?
- I believed it was necessary because i don't think he could have had a peaceful existance on earth, especially right after the war ended. Everyone had believed he was on voldemort's side and he would have had a hard time convincing everyone he was for the light side and he'd also have a hard time with the death eaters/supporters of voldemort once they heard of his betrayal.

Did you see it coming?
- I saw it coming because i think death was the only way could have proven that he was on dumbledore's side.

What did you think about how he died?
- I think the way he died was pathetic and not worthy of Snape. He died all alone aside from Harry towards the end. The way he died was also very sad... i mean he was squeezed to death by a giant snake. He deserved a more heroic death to honor what a heroic person he had been.

And how did you feel about it, are you sad, happy, or in total shock still?
- I'm sad about it because as i said before, i think he way he died was very unjust. I'm also disappointed because i had expected him to die saving harry, so his death via snake was a little bit of a let down. I also was looking foreward to actually seeing snape reveal to harry that he was on the light side in person rather than by a memory.

What did you think about how he died?
- I think the way he died was pathetic and not worthy of Snape. He died all alone aside from Harry towards the end. The way he died was also very sad... i mean he was squeezed to death by a giant snake. He deserved a more heroic death to honor what a heroic person he had been.


Fellow Snape fan here...:sad:. I had the same expectations as it seems you did coming into DH, but after reading the death, I felt it was perfect as written. I would not exchange it for the grandstand heroic death scene. The death was a quiet and out of the way one, which is really fitting for his service to the good side as a spy. He wasn't doing it for the glory and the credit, which people who fought more openly could hope to get, and this only makes me admire his choice more. It also underlines the claim, which had in the past been in doubt, that Snape's spying put him at great personal risk. He never messed up as a spy, Voldemort believed he was loyal until the end, and yet, Voldemort killed him without a second thought.

And how did you feel about it, are you sad, happy, or in total shock still?
- I'm sad about it because as i said before, i think he way he died was very unjust. I'm also disappointed because i had expected him to die saving harry, so his death via snake was a little bit of a let down.

Buit if you think about the events of the finale, it is true that Snape did save Harry in his dying moments. By giving the memory in which Dumbledore explains what Harry must do about the soul bit, he provided Harry with the means to survive the encounter with Voldemort. (Though neither Harry nor Snape knew at the time, since Dumbledore concealed his suspicions from them both). While this is not related to Snape's death, I also loved that Voldemort's final defeat involved Expelliarmus. ("You shouldn't have let Professor Snape teach us that one", CoS), and that Harry threw Snape's loyalty to Dumbledore and love for Lily in Voldemort's face, in front of everyone!

From the first time I read that scene, and every time after, I picture Snape all in white ... as in he's the good guy.

I do think the manner of his death was rather horrible. Not only did the snake bite him in the neck, but the man (LV) to whom he gave his total allegiance (not really, but LV believed that) casually sacrificed him to his own agenda, and left him to die alone.

But the beauty of that scene is he asked Harry to look at him, and he died looking into Lily's eyes. (sniffle)

The death was a quiet and out of the way one...' While this is not related to Snape's death, I also loved that Voldemort's final defeat involved Expelliarmus. ("You shouldn't have let Professor Snape teach us that one", CoS)...

I hadn't really thought of that before; but it is true, Snape's death was in an out of the way one...but JKR may have added yet another subtle element to his death.

Snape died in the shrieking shack which is kind of ironic considering his past association with that place. It was a place he was forbidden to go in his youth, but he found a way and attempted to go in, but was rescued from being mauled or turned into a werewolf or possibly killed. Later he went again in adulthood, only to be struck down by 3 simultaneous Expelliarmus curses he'd taught to those who'd struck him and floated out in an unconscious state. His last entry into the shack resulted in his death. It was as if the previous events were a foreshadowing of what was to come.

Do you believe it was necessary?
Necessary...for Snape yes. He was much to heroic to live his life as an outlaw of sorts. He was too courageous to live out his golden days in the shadows. I imagine he would be somewhat like Lupin, as he was not accepted by the wizarding population. I think too many people would hate Snape for killing DD, even if they knew the truth.
Did you see it coming?
No. WOW. His death was so sad. it just was another level of Vodlemorts evil shown by killing who he believed to be his right hand man. I knew at that instant that Snape was good, just for the fact that he didnt resist at all. He knew that there was no chance of killing Voldy, Even though I believe Snape to be a better legilmens, as well as a stronger man. Ive said it in prior posts, its one thing to stay away from the Dark Arts always, but it takes a very strong individual to fall into the temptation and be strong enough to turn around and fight. Cheers to Severus Snape!
What did you think about how he died?
It was saddening and suiting for Severus. He didnt deserved to die a public death, so everyone could celebrate because of it. He was a courageous man, and died at the hands of the man who killed his only love. He died looking into the eyes that have haunted him for most of his life.
And how did you feel about it, are you sad, happy, or in total shock still?
SAD. and yet Glad that we finally heard the whole truth. It was a long time coming.

What did you think about how he died?
It was saddening and suiting for Severus. He didnt deserved to die a public death, so everyone could celebrate because of it.

You know, that's an interesting observation. Looking at how the story unfolded, it's possible if Snape had fallen in the battle for example, it may not have been clear who's side he was on unless he made some grandstand speech which Rowling only ever allowed Voldemort to do, why would anyone know.

It would have been tough to see cheering as Potion Master went down.

I always kind of thought Snape died in the shadows as he had lived. That's the kind of guy he was.

i cried when i knew his ending.
and it is lucky that Harry got his memory at last~~

Do you believe it was necessary?
I don't think it was necessary. See, what I was expecting was Snape to somehow be involved in the fight against Voldemort, somehow showing the light that he was on their side or something like that.
Did you see it coming?
No not at all. I was actually expecting him to live. But if I was thinking that he was going to die, being killed by a snake is not how I pictured it.
What did you think about how he died?
I think he should have died while fighting in the battle, not being killed by a snake.
And how did you feel about it, are you sad, happy, or in total shock still?
I was shocked when it actually happened. But after reading the part when Harry was watching Snape's memories, I was sad because it seemed to me that we finally saw the real side of Snape.

While he was on their side and not Voldys I can't see him readily protecting Harry, or Harry jumping out so early.

But it would have been nice to see him protecting Harry in such a manner...Getting past all his hatred for James and realizing that Harry was also Lilys son and that Lily would have wanted for Harry to be happy and safe...(He should have thought that through earlier on..and not been so mean to Harry!)

I think the way Snape thought this through was that he was being extremely nice to Harry and James by saving his life, so he decided that he would fullfill his hate James vendetta by being mean to Harry and the "I Love Lily" part by saving him

What did you think about how he died?
I think he should have died while fighting in the battle, not being killed by a snake.
.

This is an interesting take on it, I thought he was too private to die in battle. He lived his life in the shadows...I think it fits that he died when no one noticed.

Do you believe it was necessary?
No. I don't think any deaths (other than Voldermort's of course!) were necessary. They were going to happen, but I don't think Snape, or anyone else in particular, *had* to die.

Did you see it coming?
This is where I contradict myself by saying yes, I saw it coming and thought his death was obvious! There, in my eyes, was no way Snape was going to survive. I always thought Snape was good but very clever at playing bad so I expected either the Order to catch up with him before the truth was revealed or Voldermort/Death Eaters to kill him after finding out. I didn't see Voldermort killing Snape while he was still 'loyal' to the Death Eaters though.

What did you think about how he died?
I absolutely hated it! It seemed like such a waste for Snape to have been killed for a wand he didn't even have control over! And Voldermort didn't even dirty his own hands.

I also hated how it happened so far away from the battle. I wanted the cliched 'Snape saves the day' ending because it seemed to be the only way to reveal Snape as a good guy. After I'd read DH, raged a little, and thought about I realised it was an almost perfect end for Snape. He had always fought his battles in private, away from everyone else and had always kept his role and work secret. The fact that he died in private, away from everyone else and in secret is tragically fitting.

And how did you feel about it, are you sad, happy, or in total shock still?
I'm fine now. I was angry to being with but 'The Prince's Tale' chapter, Harry's defence of Snape during the battle with Voldermort and the whole Albus Severus thing in the Epilogue make things much better. Snape's death is so much more than the actual death scene - you have to look at the circumstance and what happens after also.

I had a feeling he was going to die, but I was still shocked because didn't realize how horrible it was going to be when it actually happened. I think that this scene was the most tragic of the whole entire series, the way he wanted to look into Harry/Lily's eyes and everything. :/

It's heartbreaking.

But like people have said, he was so unhappy being alive, and now he doesn't really have a "purpose" so I think he would be happier in the after-life(if you believe in that sort of thing.)

I was convinced he would die and that dying he would redeem himself, or prove he was, and always had been, loyal to Dumbledore. I also thought he had loved Lily, and that was why DD trusted him.

However, I felt that the scene was lack of something... I expected he had a moment of facing Voldy and say: "yes, I've been all this time helping DD, and I did it because you killed Lily" . However, I acknowledge that the moment he asks Harry to look at him in the eye, to pass him his memories (and I suppose that to see Lily's eyes for the last time) was really touching.

Severus Snape was born a hero, and he died a hero. There's nothing more to it. I just wished Harry could have realised who he really was before it happened though, I don't think it would have given Snape greater satisfaction than for Harry to have realised that after everything they've been through with one another, he never stopped loving Lily, and therefore he never stopped loving Harry.
It was such a shame that Harry found out about it too late. I mean, he died not knowing whether or not Harry succeeded in killing Voldemort, which was what he lived for, he put his neck on the line half of his life protecting Harry and helping him fight...And he wouldn't even have known whether or not his lifetime of misery and betrayal was for good use. Also, he died with Harry thinking of him as a *******, hating him with every inch of his body, thinking he killed Dumbledore out of pure malice. Must have been a terrible life for him to lead, poor soul. But he was a hero, and he'll go down in history. I can honestly say I've fallen in love with Severus Snape.

Do you believe it was necessary?
It was necessary for the plot, but that doesn't mean I have to like it. I was never much of a fan of Snape until after I read book 6. I really thought about his actions, and predicted that he was good, and loyal to Dumbledore, and that he was instructed by Dumbledore to kill him, and would not do so on his own accord. Snape was an amazing man, and not even an handful of men could ever compare to his sacrifice.

Did you see it coming?
Yes, I saw it coming. He had to die, I knew that going into the seventh book. Yet part of me hoped he wouldn't have to.

What did you think about how he died?
It was a fitting end for a hero, although not the one for which I had hoped. I sort of hoped that he would die in battle, maybe jumping in front of a killing curse to save someone. Yes, yes, I know that is cliche, but it would have showed everyone the compassionate heart within the cold shell. He died fighting for what he believed in, even if it wasn't much of a battle. He sacrificed himself for the greater good, and that's the most anyone can hope to do.

And how did you feel about it, are you sad, happy, or in total shock still?
I really sad. Snape had such a hard life, and although he was tempted and whisked away to darkness, he still have enough compassion and courage to fight it and bring himself back into the light. He overcame what so many people cannot: hatred, anger, jealousy, love. And he chose the greater good over his own feelings. In a way, he was similar to Harry. Harry had such a hard life as well, but in the end, Harry finally got the taste of happiness. It's sad that Snape will never know what it feels like.

Severus Snape was born a hero, and he died a hero. There's nothing more to it. I just wished Harry could have realised who he really was before it happened though, I don't think it would have given Snape greater satisfaction than for Harry to have realised that after everything they've been through with one another, he never stopped loving Lily, and therefore he never stopped loving Harry.
It was such a shame that Harry found out about it too late. I mean, he died not knowing whether or not Harry succeeded in killing Voldemort, which was what he lived for, he put his neck on the line half of his life protecting Harry and helping him fight...And he wouldn't even have known whether or not his lifetime of misery and betrayal was for good use. Also, he died with Harry thinking of him as a *******, hating him with every inch of his body, thinking he killed Dumbledore out of pure malice. Must have been a terrible life for him to lead, poor soul. But he was a hero, and he'll go down in history. I can honestly say I've fallen in love with Severus Snape.

Yes, Snape did love Lily but no, he never loved Harry. He loathed Harry just as much as Harry Loathed him. Harry was too much like James, they never could have been friends or anything close, even if Harry did know that Snape loved Lily. He may have ended up respecting what Snape did for him but that doesnt change years of abuse by Snape. I think it is very weird that people seem to just ignore the fact that Snape treated many children very badly. If a teacher ever treated my child the way that Snape treated Harry, Hermione, Ron, Neville, and probably anyone else who wasn't in Slitherin than I would have made sure he was fired years ago.

Yes, Snape did love Lily but no, he never loved Harry. He loathed Harry just as much as Harry Loathed him. Harry was too much like James, they never could have been friends or anything close, even if Harry did know that Snape loved Lily. He may have ended up respecting what Snape did for him but that doesnt change years of abuse by Snape. I think it is very weird that people seem to just ignore the fact that Snape treated many children very badly. If a teacher ever treated my child the way that Snape treated Harry, Hermione, Ron, Neville, and probably anyone else who wasn't in Slitherin than I would have made sure he was fired years ago.

But I think theres a bigger picture we have to look at. Yes, Snape was a slimy git, but Im sure that if Harry knew the truth about the life Snape was leading, he would have just a teensy bit of admiration for the man during all those years at Hogwarts, and maybe their relationship would have changed. Harry did sneak around the school and disregard the fact that alot of people were also risking his life for him. I suppose that would get to me as well. He risked his life for Harry, even if it wasnt his first choice, he still did it. I dont like the fact that everyone says Harry was just like James, he was a lot like Lily as well. Not necessarily talent wise, but he is compassionate, and he would never let Malfoy push Neville around, just like Lily didnt let James push Snape around. After all, Harry did have Lilys eyes. I think Snape had no choice but to look at Harry and see Lily as well...
But back on subject...
If you look at the big picture, Snape laid his life down for Harry but treated Harry with disdain for most of his life. He could have treated Harry the same way and then killed Harry, which was expected. I would have accepted any kind of treatment, as long as you were helping fight Voldemort. Voldemort was killing people... he was the enemy. Snape was mean to little kids. boo hoo.
I agree.. Snape died a heros death. Its sad that he doesnt get the respect he deserves.

If you look at the big picture, Snape laid his life down for Harry but treated Harry with disdain for most of his life. He could have treated Harry the same way and then killed Harry, which was expected. I would have accepted any kind of treatment, as long as you were helping fight Voldemort.

I agree. Everyone makes a big deal about Severus' treatment of Harry, but honestly, none of that mattered in the long run. It didn't really matter how he treated Harry; all that mattered was that he was there to protect Harry when he needed too. I would have dealt with Severus' harsh and unfair treatment without issue for seven years if, at the end of the day, I knew he was there watching my back.

Actions speak louder than words, and while some of his actions were condemning, the ones that truly mattered in the end were the one's that showed him for who he really was: a warrior for the Light.

Voldemort was killing people... he was the enemy. Snape was mean to little kids. boo hoo

That's an interesting way to look at things, CoeurDeLyon. Voldemort, since the beginning, is the character that pretty much everyone hated the most, and Severus was usually the second most hated character in the series. People believed that Severus was almost as evil as Voldemort- and they usually seemed to forget that Severus' actions paled in comparison to Voldemort's.

Voldemort killed people!! That's as evil as you can get. Of course, Severus killed Albus; but let's not forget that Albus told him to do it. Severus didn't have any choice but to do it- if he had refused, both Albus and himself would have been killed (and likely Draco and Harry as well). Severus did what he did for the greater good. Other than that, the only thing we can hold against him is the fact that he bullied Harry.

Now let's be honest here... Severus' actions, when looked at in this light, really seem unimportant when compared to the true evil of the series. Don't you think?

We have a Snape character analysis thread in Legilimency Studies. Please take the discussion of Snape's loyalties, his actions and his role in general over there. This thread should be about your reaction to his death. Thanks.

ok, so don't get me wrong, I love snape. And I thought his death was all noble and stuff. But totally hypothetically, snape is really good a occlumency. What if he made up all those memories he gave to Harry when he was about to die. wouldn't it be funny, in want of a better word, if snape just did all that to screw with harry. Anyways, this thought made me laugh.

What if he made up all those memories he gave to Harry when he was about to die. wouldn't it be funny, in want of a better word, if snape just did all that to screw with harry. Anyways, this thought made me laugh.

We have corroboration of the most important memories of the bunch. Snape would have no way to know Harry was helped by a mysterious Doe Patronus in the Forest of Dean to manufacture either the memory where he talks about getting the Sword to Harry in the Forest of Dean with Dumbledore and Phineas, or to choose that particular form for his Patronus in the "fake" memory where he tells Dumbledore he will always love Lily. And we know that Dumbledore truly did think Harry had to let Voldemort kill him, because this is confirmed in King's Cross.

Snape's death, apart from being symbolic of his life, I believe, also served to show that Voldemort had no mercy for anyone. Snape had to die, but the manner in which he was killed was quite gruesome. To be honest and fair, I don't know another way Voldemort could have done it as he couldn't use his wand and issue any type of curse (he believed it would not work).

Nonetheless, I don't think Snape expected what Voldy came up with - Snape seemed completely taken by surprise when Nagini encased him. I think that is what Voldy was referring to when he said "I regret it" because he too didn't feel it was the way he would have liked to have killed Snape (torture then death). I think Voldy appreciated what he believed to be Snape's efforts for the dark side and would have preferred to have made the death quick (AK curse), but he couldn't. I think in terms of the storyline, a quick death would not have been symbolic of Snape's life, whereas the Snake biting him was terribly so imo.

However, the gruesome form of Snape's death didn't really shock me; I expected no less from Voldemort - or any DE really. I think Snape himself was not shocked at the manner either after he'd had a moment to think about it and realize that it was the only way Voldy had on hand to do it (and ensure it was actually done).

ok, so don't get me wrong, I love snape. And I thought his death was all noble and stuff. But totally hypothetically, snape is really good a occlumency. What if he made up all those memories he gave to Harry when he was about to die. wouldn't it be funny, in want of a better word, if snape just did all that to screw with harry. Anyways, this thought made me laugh.
Snape always told Harry the truth in life, and I think he told him the truth in death.

Otherwise, what a sad and cynical world it the Potterverse would be, and that would make Albus Severus, Snape's namesake after his death, a mockery, wouldn't it?

I don't think JKR meant Snape's death to be something out of a comic book, to be honest. It's one of the most brutal and moving death scenes in all the books, and the one most on Harry's mind when he finally faced Voldemort and told him about Snape's true loyalty and love for Lily.

On another note...

I was reading Dobby's death scene yesterday, and as he is bleeding to death, he reaches out his hands to Harry in "supplication" as he is dying, and says "Harry Potter" as if he is praying or wanting to see him one more time.

I became curious about that word "supplication," since I'm not that familiar with the concept, and did some research. I thought it meant "praying" or holding up your hands to God, but it also means:

From Online Etymology Dictionary:

supplication
1384, from O.Fr. supplication, from L. supplicationem (nom. supplicatio), from supplicare "plead humbly" (see supple). In ancient Rome, a religious solemnity, especially in thanksgiving for a victory.

suppliant
1429, "humble petitioner," from M.Fr. suppliant, originally prp. of supplier "to plead humbly, entreat, beg, pray," from L. supplicare "beg, beseech" (see supplication).

I was thinking how similar that is to what Snape does as he is dying. He grabs Harry's robes and says: "Take it . . . Take it . . . " meaning his memories. He's pleading, and almost begging, and that's an act of supplication also.

Snape is also bleeding to death just like Dobby, and when the memories are gone, "he looked as though there was no blood left in him." I think that is supposed to mean that memories of Lily's love was like his life's blood to him.

Then he says "Look . . . at . . . me" - another entreaty or act of pleading with Harry. He doesn't say Harry's name, but Harry does what he asks and looks into his eyes, and then Snape dies.

Harry also looks Dobby in the eyes upon death, which goes back to Snape having to look into Dumbledore's eyes as he pleads on the Tower - "Severus Please," which is the supplication again - as well as Snape being the only DE who looks into the eyes of Charity Burbage as she pleads with him for her life, but it's too late for her. Snape did not kill her anymore than Harry killed Snape, but he acts as a witness to her passing.

It was also too late for Dobby and Dumbledore and Snape, himself.

So in all those similarities we have a character who is dying in a tragically horrible way, connecting to just one person upon death who acts as witness to their supplication or entreaty to end their suffering. It's a very moving and human moment.

Nonetheless, I don't think Snape expected what Voldy came up with - Snape seemed completely taken by surprise when Nagini encased him. I think that is what Voldy was referring to when he said "I regret it" because he too didn't feel it was the way he would have liked to have killed Snape (torture then death). I think Voldy appreciated what he believed to be Snape's efforts for the dark side and would have preferred to have made the death quick (AK curse), but he couldn't. I think in terms of the storyline, a quick death would not have been symbolic of Snape's life, whereas the Snake biting him was terribly so imo.
I don't think Voldemort regretted the method he used. I don't think he really cares how someone dies. I think he regretted losing who he thought was a faithful servant. Voldemort only cared if someone would serve him or not.

But, despite thinking that Snape was loyal to him, Voldemort stilled killed him.

Snape played the role of spy knowing full well that it may result in his death which says a lot for his character. But I don't even think he would have guessed it was over a wand. He probably thought that if Voldemort killed him it was because Voldemort found out the truth.

It was a surprize to me why Snape died, and very sad how it happened. I'm not a fan of the man considering how he treated many children poorly, but he redeemed himself somewhat when we found out he put his life on the line to fight against Voldemort - and he paid the ultimate price.

Snape death had a symbolic element to it.

The word Venom is derived from the word "Venus" and is connected to "love potion."

venom c.1220, from Anglo-Fr. and O.Fr. venim, from V.L. *venimen, from L. venenum "poison, drug, potion," perhaps ultimately connected to venus "erotic love" (see Venus), in which case the original meaning might have been "love potion." The meaning "bitter, virulent feeling or language" is first recorded c.1300.

Snape also made a comment back in OOP which foreshadowed his death. When Umbridge asked him for more Veritaserum, he declined and brought up the subject of poisonous Venoms - implying that they would work towards the same purpose of Veritaserum but acted to quickly. "Unless you wish to poison potter( ... ) the only problem is that most venoms act too fast to give the victim much time for truth telling."

So I think Rowling had his Death in mind back in OOP - in the end Snape died telling the truth- as quickly as he could- through his memory about the one love of his life.

I don't think Voldemort regretted the method he used. I don't think he really cares how someone dies. I think he regretted losing who he thought was a faithful servant. Voldemort only cared if someone would serve him or not.

But, despite thinking that Snape was loyal to him, Voldemort stilled killed him.

Snape played the role of spy knowing full well that it may result in his death which says a lot for his character. But I don't even think he would have guessed it was over a wand. He probably thought that if Voldemort killed him it was because Voldemort found out the truth.

It was a surprize to me why Snape died, and very sad how it happened. I'm not a fan of the man considering how he treated many children poorly, but he redeemed himself somewhat when we found out he put his life on the line to fight against Voldemort - and he paid the ultimate price.

I think that is a very possible interpretation of Voldy's feelings as well; I could agree with that also. :)

But I agree with you, in any case, Snape wouldn't have suspected that he would be killed by Voldy over a wand - or that DD would make it so. I think Snape was quite confused then appalled when he found out and those were his final emotions before Nagini struck - too I think he was feeling some anxiety because he wouldn't be able to complete his mission. However in the end he was able to do that. Nonetheless, it was a gruesome way to die and I don't believe that Snape would have expected torture unless Voldy had found out he was a spy. That was very cruel on Voldy's part, so you are likely correct in that Voldy didn't care about the method; he just wanted to ensure Snape died. Too, it makes sense he would regret losing a servant. :)

Snape death had a symbolic element to it.

The word Venom is derived from the word "Venus" and is connected to "love potion."



Snape also made a comment back in OOP which foreshadowed his death. When Umbridge asked him for more Veritaserum, he declined and brought up the subject of poisonous Venoms - implying that they would work towards the same purpose of Veritaserum but acted to quickly.

So I think Rowling had his Death in mind back in OOP - in the end Snape died telling the truth- as quickly as he could...

That is a good connection - I think too the fact that he died in the S. Shack was foreshadowed by all of the trauma he faced in that shack twice before. I would agree that those things were part of the symbolism of Snape's death.

Quote:
"Unless you wish to poison potter( ... ) the only problem is that most venoms act too fast to give the victim much time for truth telling."

So I think Rowling had his Death in mind back in OOP - in the end Snape died telling the truth- as quickly as he could- through his memory about the one love of his life.
Snape definitely had very little time left, but he did everything he could in those short minutes. :(

As far as foreshadowing, I was thinking today about Book One, which is the first time Harry looks into Snape's eyes and sees "dark tunnels." That is also reminiscent of the Shack, but also the Basilisk in the Chamber of Secrets, when Harry was attacked in a dark place by a snake. Deathly Hallows as a book is the "light" at the end of the Dark Series. But Snape's death doesn't end his story because he is still alive in memory, as Harry proves when he talks about him to Albus Severus.

Snape is still "in living memory" and the "last enemy to be destroyed was death."

I also started musing on the idea of the proverbial "light at the end of the tunnel," which is what many people see in near death experiences. When Snape dies, Harry sees "something at the end of the dark pair." And that goes back to the dark tunnels in Book One.

That also reminds me of the tunnel behind the portrait of Aberforth and Dumbledore's dead sister, where Harry finds Neville, the DA, and hope. Again, a light at the end of the tunnel. (I need to go back through and make a list, I suppose. :) )

I think the light at the end of the tunnel is all about hope and the afterlife, and memory keeping people alive, which is the theme all through DH.

That is a good connection - I think too the fact that he died in the S. Shack was foreshadowed by all of the trauma he faced in that shack twice before. I would agree that those things were part of the symbolism of Snape's death.

Yes, Snape "defied" death three times in the Shack, and the third time was the clincher.

I don't think Voldemort regretted the method he used. I don't think he really cares how someone dies. I think he regretted losing who he thought was a faithful servant. Voldemort only cared if someone would serve him or not.

But, despite thinking that Snape was loyal to him, Voldemort stilled killed him.

Snape played the role of spy knowing full well that it may result in his death which says a lot for his character. But I don't even think he would have guessed it was over a wand. He probably thought that if Voldemort killed him it was because Voldemort found out the truth.

It was a surprize to me why Snape died, and very sad how it happened. I'm not a fan of the man considering how he treated many children poorly, but he redeemed himself somewhat when we found out he put his life on the line to fight against Voldemort - and he paid the ultimate price.


I agree. I dont think Voldy regretted his method either. Voldy didnt actually care for Snape. He thought Snape could continue doing Voldes bidding if he was alive and he regretted his death for that reason. That was my take on it anyway.

His death was definetly a surprise, no matter how you look at it. Snape did serve his days knowing that he could die, and probably would. It jsut goes to show that Voldemort doesnt care about anyone, not even his right hand man.

I think Snape's is the saddest of all the sad deaths in DH, and the most pathetic. Here he died, after a lifetime of hopelessly loving Lily and her memory (I thought the scene when he takes the part of her letter where she has written "Love" - though it was not meant for him - and her picture with him so very touching), walking a very tight rope, playing an extremely dangerous game, almost universally hated, dying an unglorious death for no good reason - I mean, I know why Voldemort killed him, but he was mistaken, wasn't he? He killed Snape for nothing, that did not give him mastery of the Elder Wand. Dying in a dark corner (the Shrieking Shack) without anybody knowing what heroic feats he had done, and as a last wish just wanting to see his love's eyes again - and give her son his memories so that at least he wouldn't be hated and despised after his death.

Did he even have a decent funeral afterwards? I don't see the Wizarding community mourning much for him, even after they knew the truth about the double life he led for, if not actually the side of good in itself, but for love.

SIP the similarity between Dobby's death and Snape's hadn't escaped my notice either, especially the fact that both die looking at Harry and the fact that these are the only two deaths described in the whole book which Harry himself witnesses, where so many die, Charity could be a close third, but even there, eye contact plays an important part and Snape is the witness. Which convinces me that Harry would personally perform the last rites for Snape. But you have essayed the similarities beautifully, I didn't think of the supplication part, it just made the whole scene more moving....

Fleurdujardin, I and I am pretty sure many others would have loved it if had died in a "glorious" manner, however, there is no doubt he lived and died heroically(even if only Dumbles and Harry and I suspect Hagrid knew about it), the most important thing from my perspective is that Harry knows and as a result we know, it doesnt matter if anyone else knows, those who can see what he has done have been defending him because we have been touched incredibly by his story, his life and his death, I think it is a very strong message being given by JKR, that even though the whole world might seem to be against you, as long as you know that what you are doing is right, nothing else really matters, there are things much bigger than public opinion, and in the end love gave Severus the tremendous strength to accomplish what he did. He did what he did for his soul, for Lily. In the death scene, I think Severus' biggest "reward" if you will was that Harry was beside him, it was an extremely poetic way to die.

...the most important thing from my perspective is that Harry knows and as a result we know, it doesnt matter if anyone else knows, those who can see what he has done have been defending him because we have been touched incredibly by his story, his life and his death, I think it is a very strong message being given by JKR, that even though the whole world might seem to be against you, as long as you know that what you are doing is right, nothing else really matters, there are things much bigger than public opinion, and in the end love gave Severus the tremendous strength to accomplish what he did. He did what he did for his soul, for Lily. In the death scene, I think Severus' biggest "reward" if you will was that Harry was beside him, it was an extremely poetic way to die.
That's beautifully said, snapeforever! :)


I know why Voldemort killed him, but he was mistaken, wasn't he? He killed Snape for nothing, that did not give him mastery of the Elder Wand. Dying in a dark corner (the Shrieking Shack) without anybody knowing what heroic feats he had done, and as a last wish just wanting to see his love's eyes again - and give her son his memories so that at least he wouldn't be hated and despised after his death.

You are right about the Elder Wand ~ Voldemort was mistaken that Snape was ever master of the wand. It was Dumbledore, Draco, and then Harry who were the masters. What's cool is that it was all of them together who actually defeated the Dark Lord. Snape told Harry that he had to sacrifice himself, through memories of what Dumbledore told him. Harry used Draco's wand to kill Voldemort.

Did he even have a decent funeral afterwards? I don't see the Wizarding community mourning much for him, even after they knew the truth about the double life he led for, if not actually the side of good in itself, but for love.[/
I believe the Malfoys would have made sure he got a decent burial anyway, but I'm absolutely sure Harry took care of that, since he honored Dobby that way.

Snape was remembered because Harry was his witness, and then named a child after him. Since Harry was so famous, people would pay attention to that fact. And he also made sure that Albus Severus woudn't forget for whom he was named. :)

Harry used Draco's wand to kill Voldemort.
I believe Harry used the Elder wand which was, at that point, Harry's wand. Plus, I wouldn't say Harry killed him because he just used a disarming curse and the wand actually killed him. But, that is all perspective!

Yes, Snape "defied" death three times in the Shack, and the third time was the clincher.

I respect your opinion, however, the symbolism with respect to Snape's death I was trying to convey was that Snape left the shack being rescued the first time by James -still conscious; he left unconscious the second time hit by simultaneous curses of Harry, Ron and Hermione and the third time he entered the shack he was killed by Nagini via Voldemort - the final time, unable to leave. But Snape's fascination of the goings on in the shack on all three occassions (possibility of: werewolf/Black-Lupin/Nagini encased) drove him there and the place never bid well for him. I think the first two occassions foreshadowed the fact that he would find his death there.

Do you believe it was necessary?

As it has been said "Nobody gets out of here alive". I think that Snapes' death was necessary both as a plot device, to get Harry the information about him being a horacrux and the rest which had me in floods of tears, and because his usefullness as a spy and protector of Harry had come to an end. Also, as someone else previously said he wouldn't have fit into the world that was created after the war ended.

Did you see it coming?

Yes, it was pretty obvious he wasn't going to get out of the Shack alive the third time.

What did you think about how he died?

Weeellll, did anyone else have the vision of Nagini in a giant hamster ball toppling over Snape and biting him, 'cause that was my thought the first time I read it. Now it's like a bad dream I can't get out of my head.

Though it begs the question, if you had a small pet snake, would a hamster ball be a useful exercise aid? Cause it would be able to get around the house in a safe and heathly manner, no treading on, snapping at the ankles, type of thing.

And how did you feel about it, are you sad, happy, or in total shock still?

Shocked the first time, tearful the second, more at peace with now, but I still get misty-eyed when I read his death and life in pieces.

I thought Snipe was mean to the children and so I was not sad when he died. He didn't care about anybody like neville and Harry and it was just mean. I didnot cry on his death because he deserved to feel how he made the children feel in class. It really hurt them and it isn't fair that he never got hurt that way but he can be that way to them. I felt like Voldamort was really evil to kill Sevrus Snape the way he did because he was cowardly instead of killing Snape himself but the wand would not work. But even if sevrus snape deserved to die I think voldemort was very cold about it.

I believe Harry used the Elder wand which was, at that point, Harry's wand. Plus, I wouldn't say Harry killed him because he just used a disarming curse and the wand actually killed him. But, that is all perspective!
But he got it from Draco, right? Draco was master of the wand before Harry took it from him, and that's what I meant.

I believe the Malfoys would have made sure he got a decent burial anyway, but I'm absolutely sure Harry took care of that, since he honored Dobby that way.

Snape was remembered because Harry was his witness, and then named a child after him. Since Harry was so famous, people would pay attention to that fact. And he also made sure that Albus Severus woudn't forget for whom he was named. :)

Snape's funeral: Yes, you're right. Harry would see to it. Even though he didn't like Snape the way he liked Dobby, still both of them, ultimately, gave their lives for him, and he would make sure they had a decent burial.

"Severus" was only Albus Potter's second name. Not many people would know it. Like we only found out Harry's middle name (James) late in the series, and it's only in the last book that we learn that "Ginny" stands for "Ginevra". His friends probably call him "Al" anyway, and forget what it stands for, let alone remember (or even know) his second name. Apart from Harry, when he explained the whole thing to him, nobody would address Al as "Albus Severus". It was a tribute, I agree, but a very muted one.

In another thread, someone made another point I hadn't thought of: Snape died not knowing that Harry would live. He still thought Dumbledore was sending Harry to his death. He died thinking he had failed in his self-appointed mission to protect his love's son. I find that incredibly sad. http://www.avenueviet.com/forums/images/smiles/supersad.gif

"Severus" was only Albus Potter's second name. Not many people would know it. Like we only found out Harry's middle name (James) late in the series, and it's only in the last book that we learn that "Ginny" stands for "Ginevra". His friends probably call him "Al" anyway, and forget what it stands for, let alone remember (or even know) his second name. Apart from Harry, when he explained the whole thing to him, nobody would address Al as "Albus Severus". It was a tribute, I agree, but a very muted one.
You don't think it might appear in the newspaper as a baby announcement? That is the canon in the book - even baby Snape had an announcement in the paper that Hermione found, and Harry and Hermione knew about Draco's son Scorpius, and he's rather obscure, too. :lol:

Besides FleurduJardin :D, there is an afterlife, I am sure Sevvie would know then that his sacrifice wasn't in vain

In another thread, someone made another point I hadn't thought of: Snape died not knowing that Harry would live. He still thought Dumbledore was sending Harry to his death. He died thinking he had failed in his self-appointed mission to protect his love's son. I find that incredibly sad.
I see that a little differently. Snape died while accomplishing his mission, which was to give Harry the right information. And he trusted that Harry would know what to do, and would do the right thing. So to me, it is like "mission impossible accomplished" and that's a satisfying way to die.

Also, he was able to look into Harry's eyes, which were like Lily's, so as he lay dying, someone kind and similar to Lily was his witness. That is sad, but also very beautiful, almost as if Harry was part of his family, which is how Dobby felt as he was dying.

But he got it from Draco, right? Draco was master of the wand before Harry took it from him, and that's what I meant.
Oh! Sorry I misunderstood. Yes, Draco was master before Harry.

I thought Snipe was mean to the children and so I was not sad when he died. He didn't care about anybody like neville and Harry and it was just mean. I didnot cry on his death because he deserved to feel how he made the children feel in class. It really hurt them and it isn't fair that he never got hurt that way but he can be that way to them. I felt like Voldamort was really evil to kill Sevrus Snape the way he did because he was cowardly instead of killing Snape himself but the wand would not work. But even if sevrus snape deserved to die I think voldemort was very cold about it.
I am not a fan of Snape either. I do not condone his treatment of children, but I don't think that means he deserved to die. I certainly didn't cry over his death but I do now see that he was not a coward to face Voldemort all this time as a spy. Yes, Voldemort was quite cold about it!

Oh! Sorry I misunderstood. Yes, Draco was master before Harry.

Originally Posted by remizwolf
I thought Snipe was mean to the children and so I was not sad when he died. He didn't care about anybody like neville and Harry and it was just mean. I didnot cry on his death because he deserved to feel how he made the children feel in class. It really hurt them and it isn't fair that he never got hurt that way but he can be that way to them. I felt like Voldamort was really evil to kill Sevrus Snape the way he did because he was cowardly instead of killing Snape himself but the wand would not work. But even if sevrus snape deserved to die I think voldemort was very cold about it.

I am not a fan of Snape either. I do not condone his treatment of children, but I don't think that means he deserved to die. I certainly didn't cry over his death but I do now see that he was not a coward to face Voldemort all this time as a spy. Yes, Voldemort was quite cold about it!

You bring up an interesting aspect of Snape's death. Was it deserved? Apparently Dumbledore thought so - making Voldy believe he was the master of the Elder Wand. I haven't made up my mind on it yet, but I do see good arguments for both sides. I don't think Snape himself wished to die. And I agree, Voldemort behaved very coldly in the killing of Snape. I don't know that I would call Voldemort cowardly because I believe that he would have sent an AK curse to kill Snape if he could have.

And I agree, Voldemort behaved very coldly in the killing of Snape. I don't know that I would call Voldemort cowardly because I believe that he would have sent an AK curse to kill Snape if he could have.

Not if he believed Snape to be the true master of the Elder Wand right?
Then he knew he couldnt of killed him using his wand, or anyones wand, which is why he used Nagini.

You don't think it might appear in the newspaper as a baby announcement? That is the canon in the book - even baby Snape had an announcement in the paper that Hermione found, and Harry and Hermione knew about Draco's son Scorpius, and he's rather obscure, too. :lol:

Yes of course it would appear in the papers as a birth announcement - 11 years before Al set off for Hogwarts. Do you think his classmates would have seen that announcement? Or look for it afterwards? Why would they?

My point was, very few of his friends and people in his generation would know what his second name was. That's why I said the tribute was "muted".

Yes of course it would appear in the papers as a birth announcement - 11 years before Al set off for Hogwarts. Do you think his classmates would have seen that announcement? Or look for it afterwards? Why would they?

My point was, very few of his friends and people in his generation would know what his second name was. That's why I said the tribute was "muted".

I agree with you, but I don't think that was Harry's objective. I think he merely did it for personal reasons. Snape upon his death, was not a widely liked fellow. I don't think it was Harry's purpose to get people to like him; merely to let them know that he had been working for DD. I think that in death, Snape achieved that. Harry would tell people and it would spread via word of mouth. whether they believed it or not is questionable, I agree, but some would. Snape didn't make a deathbed request for Harry to do that, I don't think he would have wanted it.

Yes of course it would appear in the papers as a birth announcement - 11 years before Al set off for Hogwarts. Do you think his classmates would have seen that announcement? Or look for it afterwards? Why would they?

My point was, very few of his friends and people in his generation would know what his second name was. That's why I said the tribute was "muted".

With all due respect I dont think it is muted. Just because we didnt find out Harry's middle name until later in the series doesnt mean that the people around him couldnt have known. I think middle names are a lot more well known around someones peers than you give them credit for.

I agree with you, but I don't think that was Harry's objective. I think he merely did it for personal reasons. Snape upon his death, was not a widely liked fellow. I don't think it was Harry's purpose to get people to like him; merely to let them know that he had been working for DD. I think that in death, Snape achieved that. Harry would tell people and it would spread via word of mouth. whether they believed it or not is questionable, I agree, but some would. Snape didn't make a deathbed request for Harry to do that, I don't think he would have wanted it.

Your last point is well-made. Snape did ask Dumbledore not to let anyone know he wasn't actually as bad as everybody thought him. But I think he did want Harry to know the whole truth. He may not have wanted to be hailed as a hero by all the other people. I still think that his death is the saddest in a book full of sad deaths.

Grindelwald: That is your opinion and I respect it while holding on to mine. :)

The Were the names really all that bad? (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=109607&page=15) thread is discussing names.

The topic of this thread is Severus Snape's Death.

The Were the names really all that bad? (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=109607&page=15) thread is discussing names.

The topic of this thread is Severus Snape's Death.

Yes, you are quite right. Now, back to the topic :p

It's been 75 days (yes, I counted!) since I read the last HP book on July 21st; and I'm still not done mourning his death. I haven't picked up any of the books, or the movies, since I finished the book.

Now, wickedwickedboy, you said that you wouldn't call Voldemort cowardly because you believe that he would have sent an AK curse to kill Snape if he could have. But, I personally didn't see anything stopping him from sending an AK curse at him. I mean, even though Nagini was the one who killed him, you could technically say that it was still Voldemort who did it, since there was a part of his soul inside Nagini. And if he could have Nagini, and in part, himself, kill Severus that way, why didn't he just kill Severus with an AK?

Now, considering I've only read the last book once, and I was a bit distraught during this part of the book, I may not totally understand the whole Elder Wand thing- so I could be wrong, and there could have been a reason he didn't just AK Severus instead.

Yes, you are quite right. Now, back to the topic :p

It's been 75 days (yes, I counted!) since I read the last HP book on July 21st; and I'm still not done mourning his death. I haven't picked up any of the books, or the movies, since I finished the book.

Now, wickedwickedboy, you said that you wouldn't call Voldemort cowardly because you believe that he would have sent an AK curse to kill Snape if he could have. But, I personally didn't see anything stopping him from sending an AK curse at him. I mean, even though Nagini was the one who killed him, you could technically say that it was still Voldemort who did it, since there was a part of his soul inside Nagini. And if he could have Nagini, and in part, himself, kill Severus that way, why didn't he just kill Severus with an AK?

Now, considering I've only read the last book once, and I was a bit distraught during this part of the book, I may not totally understand the whole Elder Wand thing- so I could be wrong, and there could have been a reason he didn't just AK Severus instead.

Well it wasn't that his soul was in Nagini that was the problem - Nagini had killed for him before with part of his soul in him, so he knew that would work. However, Voldy had been using the Elder Wand, but it wasn't working well for him. He declared that it only worked at all because "he" was so extraordinary (:whistle:). So Voldy knew the lore and according to the lore, he wasn't master of the Wand because he hadn't defeated its owner just taken it from him (DD's grave). So whoever had killed DD was the master which was Snape. The lore also says that the master of the wand would be the victor in a battle. So Voldy figured he could not kill Snape with the wand - and worse, he might himself be killed for trying to use it against its master (and then have to wait and regenerate again via Nagini). So that is why he elected to use Nagini who he knew would work as the only wand he had on him was the Elder Wand. He could have asked Snape to use his wand - but I don't think even Voldy would go that far (ask Snape to use his own wand to kill him) - plus, that might not have worked either since Snape was the master of the elder wand (in Voldy's eyes). So he used Nagini to kill Snape as he figured that would definitely work.

I think Voldy would have used the AK though, because he still considered Snape his loyal servant and one who had not fumbled or foiled his plans (as Bella and Lucius had done, without meaning to). Nagini meant torture + death and I think he would have just made it as quick as possible if he thought he could because he would see no reason to torture his faithful and loyal servant. However, he was left without a choice.

Snape realized that as well and actually raised his own wand against Voldy (and I am sure his mind was in turmoil over all that was going on as he didn't know about any of it beforehand), but then thought Voldy had a change of mind when he waved the elder wand and nothing happened - and then it was too late by the time he realized Nagini was coming and could only yell before the bubble encased him. So Snape I don't think was prepared to die at Voldy's whim - but he wasn't given time to try and fight back.

Not if he believed Snape to be the true master of the Elder Wand right?
Then he knew he couldnt of killed him using his wand, or anyones wand, which is why he used Nagini.

Good point. :tu: V. knew the Elder Wand would not kill its master, and he thought that master was Snape.

Also, for plot purposes, an AK curse kills instantly. Snape wouldn't have had time to look into Harry's eyes or, more important, to give him his memories.

I Think JKR kind of had to let Snape die, because even the fact that he loved Lily would not change his charcter that much. He still bullied children and did stuff like that for a long time. This way, he could be a hero in death.

Do I believe it was necessary/Did I see it coming?
Well, had he been a bad guy after all, he should of course have been killed. Not by harry, but by somebody else who loved Dumbledore. McGonagall maybe, there'd have been a nice gryffindor-slytherin contrast on top of everything else.
If he's a good guy, I thought, there must be a heroic death or a survival... but after the survival? He and Harry ending up being friends? No way, impossible. Maybe it was the only option he died. But no, i didn't see it coming.

What do I think about how he died?
Good or bad, He was much too important a character to be murdered via Nagini like that. Voldemort bothered to use AK even on Charity Burbage, whom he(and the reader) regarded to be worth nothing. JKR isn't doing Snape justice. Of course, serving as a spy against Voldemort has a huge risk in it, and such a death had been hanging above Snape ever since his promise to Dumbledore. On that basis I can almost forgive JKR.

Good or bad, He was much too important a character to be murdered via Nagini like that. Voldemort bothered to use AK even on Charity Burbage, whom he(and the reader) regarded to be worth nothing. JKR isn't doing Snape justice. Of course, serving as a spy against Voldemort has a huge risk in it, and such a death had been hanging above Snape ever since his promise to Dumbledore. On that basis I can almost forgive JKR.

Look at it this way, Holey: the AK Curse kills instantly. How would you then expect Snape to be able to give Harry his memories, especially let Harry know that he has to go to his death if he wants to defeat Voldemort?

Like Sirius's very late escape from the AzHilton, it's just another plot device. :rolleyes: (Yes, that's the cynic in me speaking!) :lol:

Look at it this way, Holey: the AK Curse kills instantly. How would you then expect Snape to be able to give Harry his memories, especially let Harry know that he has to go to his death if he wants to defeat Voldemort?

Like Sirius's very late escape from the AzHilton, it's just another plot device. :rolleyes: (Yes, that's the cynic in me speaking!) :lol:

I agree and it was in character. I mean Sirius' laughing death wasn't exactly lovely - nor was the thought of Mad Eye falling out of the sky and splattering on the ground. And poor Hedwig, first AK'd and then blown to bits! Fred too had a rather dramatic death with the wall falling on top of him. I think it was just the evils of the magical world at play - the deaths would be horrible. (and people wonder why I was happy that Remus' death wasn't described :whistle:). So in the scheme of things, Snape's death was as violent as the others -only it was at the hands of Voldy, so it included his mark of horror and torture.

But it doesn't seem as bad to me (none of the deaths do) when you look at it as all of them dying in character. Snape chose to follow Voldy (encased by the bubble of protection) and then was bitten by the Snake he sought (Nagini biting him). He didn't die instantly, but got to finish his last task for DD (his turn away from Voldy). So in the symbolic sense of it matching his life, it doesn't seem quite as horrible to me.

Look at it this way, Holey: the AK Curse kills instantly. How would you then expect Snape to be able to give Harry his memories, especially let Harry know that he has to go to his death if he wants to defeat Voldemort?

Like Sirius's very late escape from the AzHilton, it's just another plot device. :rolleyes: (Yes, that's the cynic in me speaking!) :lol:
Snape had to die somewhat slowly or he wouldn't have been able to give Harry the memories, so Jo used Nagini.

Look at it this way, Holey: the AK Curse kills instantly. How would you then expect Snape to be able to give Harry his memories, especially let Harry know that he has to go to his death if he wants to defeat Voldemort?

Like Sirius's very late escape from the AzHilton, it's just another plot device. :rolleyes: (Yes, that's the cynic in me speaking!) :lol:Yes, that thought crossed my mind too. That was Voldemort's first (and only) non-AK murder as far as we know, so why not use the curse this time also? There have been discussions in this thread about LV knowing it's dangerous to use a wand against its master, but I've got nothing to add there. It was plot device, I agree.

I considered another theory, though it sounded far-fetched even in my own mind: Was Voldemort really the ultimate bad guy, or was there some humanity left in him and he found it difficult to perform the curse on an almost-friend? After all, he killed people because 1)he hated them and 2)for the fun of it. Never before (in the books) had he killed a loyal ally.
But as i said, I don't believe in this myself.

What bothers me is the resemblance to Charity Burbage's death(unenthusiastic murder by LV, Nagini involved), which is one of the most unimportant deaths in the whole series. Snape is, after all, in the top10 of important characters(imo), and for that reason he deserves better. Snape's death was surely diffucult to the writer because of the mission DD left him, but isn't JKR supposed to be a skilled writer?:shrug:

What bothers me is the resemblance to Charity Burbage's death(unenthusiastic murder by LV, Nagini involved), which is one of the most unimportant deaths in the whole series. Snape is, after all, in the top10 of important characters(imo), and for that reason he deserves better. Snape's death was surely diffucult to the writer because of the mission DD left him, but isn't JKR supposed to be a skilled writer?:shrug:

I disagree on the importance of Charity's death. It set the tone for the whole final book.

And Rowling clearly wrote it to say both true and red-herringy things about Snape - it was an important scene in Snape's story. His apparent lack of any feeling about the death was probably supposed to reinforce for us that we were dealing with the cold-blooded murderer of Dumbledore here, on the first read.
For the die-hard Snape believers or people rereading, how awful was that scene, considered from Snape's point-of-view? Here's his colleague, someone he has seen regularly for years, begging him for help using exactly the same words that Dumbledore used on the Tower, and he can't do anything for her. At most, he could die with her, and bring about the failure of his missions.

Fast-forward to "The Elder Wand", and Snape finds himself in the victim position. His face remains equally impassive as he slowly comes to suspect Voldemort plans to kill him, in his death scene, though he does get pale. This is something he has always known could happen, and here it is, and all he can apaprently think about is getting to Harry, because he has seen Nagini and knows it is time to tell him Dumbeldore's secret. I thought the scene underlined Snape's courage as a spy in a very dramatic way.

Well it was better than him being killed out-right with the Avada Kedavra curse. This way he got time to give Harry his memories, to clear things up and got to look into Lily's eyes one last time. If anything it was a beautiful death. The Killing Curse would of been too cliche and predictable.

If anything it was a beautiful death.But most unheroic.

Yes, I can see some beauty in it too. The head of Slytherin, the boy who was so intrested in dark arts, the young enthusiastic death eater... and now the snake strikes back. All the risks he knowingly took messing around with dark arts became real in a snake's form. Something beautiful there is, yes.

But most unheroic.

Yes, I can see some beauty in it too. The head of Slytherin, the boy who was so intrested in dark arts, the young enthusiastic death eater... and now the snake strikes back. All the risks he knowingly took messing around with dark arts became real in a snake's form. Something beautiful there is, yes.

But it was in character, his death. Snape was an anti-hero. He was extremely brave, courageous, loyal and capable of love. But he was a despicable man, he treated people like they where scum, inferior, and sometime being a git just for the fun of bit (like he did with Neville, and much more students). So IMO he died in character, most unheroic. A sad but beautiful death

But most unheroic.

Yes, I can see some beauty in it too. The head of Slytherin, the boy who was so intrested in dark arts, the young enthusiastic death eater... and now the snake strikes back. All the risks he knowingly took messing around with dark arts became real in a snake's form. Something beautiful there is, yes.

I would agree that it was an unheroic death as the other characters working with DD mostly died in battle. However, getting hit by the AK curse without trying to save yourself would have also been unheroic. He would have had to have taken Voldy on in a mega fight to his death - which I think would have been more exciting. Actually that is what I expected to happen (I never doubted he was working with DD). If he could have done that and the memories simply charmed to come out when Harry later found him dead, that would have been a pretty cool means of death imo. As it was, his death was more in line with Peter's, unheroic, but character-linked death in choking himself relative to his own decision to betray his friends and wavering at the end. JKR actually did compare Snape and Wormtail when characterizing their reasons for joining Voldy (vulnerability and insecurity), so Snape's death falls in line with what was going on in terms of the overall scheme of the plot.

I agree there was a certain ironic beauty in all of the deaths, including Snape's - as you indicate, because of the link with their characters.

I would agree that it was an unheroic death as the other characters working with DD mostly died in battle. However, getting hit by the AK curse without trying to save yourself would have also been unheroic. He would have had to have taken Voldy on in a mega fight to his death - which I think would have been more exciting. Actually that is what I expected to happen (I never doubted he was working with DD).


A Snape - LV battle to the death would of been a highlight of the book as we know Snape is a powerful wizard - able to conceal the truth from even LV and that he is a most accomplished dueller and even a great inventor of dark and powerful spells. However, Snape wouldn't of really stood a chance, LV has killed more powerful witches and wizards in the past. Snape wouldn't of started the duel as he is still trying to proove he is on LV's side. Therefore LV would of stiked first and he would of used the AK curse. What would Snape of done? Stop, drop and roll? It's unblockable after all, Snape would of died. The only person we know of blocking the AK curse was DD in the MoM with the statue and Fawkes. So putting someone in the way in time would save you, but there was nothing there to do that for Snape.

He had a good enough death, in reality there were only two choices to kill him, AK or Nagini and Im glad he died at the hands of the snake. It was more interesting, graphic and exciting, also giving time for some famous last words.

A Snape - LV battle to the death would of been a highlight of the book as we know Snape is a powerful wizard - able to conceal the truth from even LV and that he is a most accomplished dueller and even a great inventor of dark and powerful spells. However, Snape wouldn't of really stood a chance, LV has killed more powerful witches and wizards in the past. Snape wouldn't of started the duel as he is still trying to proove he is on LV's side. Therefore LV would of stiked first and he would of used the AK curse. What would Snape of done? Stop, drop and roll? It's unblockable after all, Snape would of died. The only person we know of blocking the AK curse was DD in the MoM with the statue and Fawkes. So putting someone in the way in time would save you, but there was nothing there to do that for Snape.

He had a good enough death, in reality there were only two choices to kill him, AK or Nagini and Im glad he died at the hands of the snake. It was more interesting, graphic and exciting, also giving time for some famous last words.

Well you make a great point, it would have been unrealistic to carry on a grand battle to the death. LV would have won with the first strike anyway as you point out. Nagini was his best alternative when you look at it that way, although for some reason I didn't find it very shocking or exciting - I guess my imagination didn't make it so graphic, it just seemed a bubble encased him, he yelled, Nagini bit and Snape fell. But I suppose I could have imagined it in a more exciting way. Maybe on another re-read some time :)

Let's remember to discuss Snape's death and not bash his character (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=108021) in this thread :)

A Snape - LV battle to the death would of been a highlight of the book

Agreed, that it would have been great, but then it would have affected the plot, which demanded Snape telling Harry everything mentioned in "Prince's Tale". Moreover Voldemort would come to know that Snape wasn't his...and the shock that he recieved in the end during the final duel would have been lost...so no, I think the plot was pretty well set, though I hated the way he died...for a great character, it was a pitiable.

I think Voldy used Nagini because Snape was encased in that magical shield. That would make it impossible for Snape to try any counter attack. I think Voldy had thought about it and imagined that if he was in Snape's position that he would fight back. Voldy was just making sure there would be no way Snape could attack him.

Well you make a great point, it would have been unrealistic to carry on a grand battle to the death. LV would have won with the first strike anyway as you point out. Nagini was his best alternative when you look at it that way, although for some reason I didn't find it very shocking or exciting - I guess my imagination didn't make it so graphic, it just seemed a bubble encased him, he yelled, Nagini bit and Snape fell. But I suppose I could have imagined it in a more exciting way. Maybe on another re-read some time :)

I understand that it wasn't exciting as it could of been. It would of been great if Snape could of had a duelling scene before he died, would of been awesome to see/read of Snape in a proper duel once and for all, I don't think we've seen him duel for real.

Also Voldemort respected Snape, he considered in a good Death Eater and an even greater source of information, he didn't want to kill Snape directly, in his eyes Snape was a good man (he was, but not for LV's reasons) and murdering him first hand wouldn't be just for a man who has served him so well.

I understand that it wasn't exciting as it could of been. It would of been great if Snape could of had a duelling scene before he died, would of been awesome to see/read of Snape in a proper duel once and for all, I don't think we've seen him duel for real.

Also Voldemort respected Snape, he considered in a good Death Eater and an even greater source of information, he didn't want to kill Snape directly, in his eyes Snape was a good man (he was, but not for LV's reasons) and murdering him first hand wouldn't be just for a man who has served him so well.

I agree, that was why I thought LV would want to use an AK curse and have it done quickly because Nagini was a more torturous way of going about it. But, as others have pointed out, Snape had to give the memories as well, so it was necessary plotwise. Too, I do believe the author was sticking with the idea of tying life/character portrayals to the deaths.

I agree, that was why I thought LV would want to use an AK curse and have it done quickly because Nagini was a more torturous way of going about it. But, as others have pointed out, Snape had to give the memories as well, so it was necessary plotwise. Too, I do believe the author was sticking with the idea of tying life/character portrayals to the deaths.

It would of made more sense and be quicker to use the AK. But put yourselve in LV's shoes. You have to kill this man, this man who has supported you (or you believe to of supported you), someone who has been faithful and loyal, someone who you could even perhaps call a friend, because if you don't your plan will fail. Would you personally want to kill him and be there to watch him die? LV might of been thinking that way...or perhaps that's too emotional for LV and he just really wanted to see him suffer. Who knows, was probably just more convienient for Harry to get the memories.

It would of made more sense and be quicker to use the AK. But put yourselve in LV's shoes. You have to kill this man, this man who has supported you (or you believe to of supported you), someone who has been faithful and loyal, someone who you could even perhaps call a friend, because if you don't your plan will fail. Would you personally want to kill him and be there to watch him die? LV might of been thinking that way...or perhaps that's too emotional for LV and he just really wanted to see him suffer. Who knows, was probably just more convienient for Harry to get the memories.

Actually when I first read it, I was thinking the same thing because LV said "I regret it". But upon reflection I got to thinking that what he regretted was losing a top member of his troops because he had so little compassion. I don't think he wanted Snape to suffer, I think he just didn't have a better way on hand to accomplish killing Snape without using a wand. But it is funny you mention that because that was my initial reaction as well. :)

I think Voldemort didn't use the Elder wand because he thought that the wand wouldn't kill its owner. And I certainly don't think Voldemort cared if Snape suffered or not, so he opted to use Nagini.

Actually when I first read it, I was thinking the same thing because LV said "I regret it". But upon reflection I got to thinking that what he regretted was losing a top member of his troops because he had so little compassion. I don't think he wanted Snape to suffer, I think he just didn't have a better way on hand to accomplish killing Snape without using a wand. But it is funny you mention that because that was my initial reaction as well. :)

That's a good point, I didn't take into account the Elder Wand. He wouldn't of wanted to use it against Snape incase it backfired or didn't work and Snape got the upper hand or ran. Nagini did seem to be the only way then, unless he planned on stabbing or strangling, but that would be way off the mark for the Dark Lord :lol:

I actually really liked it. It was more brutal and tragic than just a simple AK. It was unexpected. I loved how in this book they really emphasized how Nagini does some dirty work for Voldemort. Poor Snape. I always felt kind of bad for him in the books.

But anyway, I did expect him to die in this book. I didn't really have any ideas how, but I'm glad she didn't just have somebody AK him. I love tragic deaths, etc. I believe it was neccesary to the plot especially because that way it helped redeem himself to Harry and others. Because if he lived, he would have probably just told Harry everything, and Harry might not have believed him. But since he gave him his memory (which was apparently not tamepred with) Harry had to believe him.

It was more brutal and tragic than just a simple AK.

That's very true. And that also goes along with what other's were saying about the deaths fitting the characters. I mean, Severus' life was brutal and tragic, so it was fitting that his death was the same way. He is my favorite character from the series, and while I was upset that he died, I've finally come to terms with it and his death satisfied me more than I thought it would.

If he had just been killed by some wayword AK that was cast by some unnamed person, I would have been very angry. The fact that it was Voldemort who had him killed, and that it was Nagini who actually killed him, was very fitting. I always assumed that if he had to die, it would be because Voldemort found out he was a traitor- so I was surprised when I read that he was only killed because Voldemort needed him out of the way in order for him to use the Elder Wand. But, I guess I shouldn't have been surprised- Severus was able to fool Voldemort, and his followers, into believing he was still loyal to him for 16 years; so it's not surprising that he was able to keep it up even in death.

It was satisfying to see Harry rubbing it in Voldemort's face in the end, as well.

big surprise, i dont think it should have happened and it definatly could have been a lot cooler

I just don't think I'd have been satisfied if he'd been killed by a simple AK. First of all, we wouldn't have seen his memories. Second of all, the AK, it's just like, oh...he's dead. Oh man. But with him being attacked, it's more brutal, and it's a (it seems cruel to say it but) more exciting way for Snape to die.

He had to die, but I cried, and I don't cry, I just don't. Let's face it, he would have been extremely hard to kill in battle and he did have to die for Harry to look at his memories. He had been trying to go to Harry, so he was probably thinking in the back of his mind, 'this is not good, why can't I be cool when I die?', he probably didn't want to die with a gaping bite hole in his neck, I mean, who would?

How could it have been cooler? It was different than anyone else's, it was very dramatic, and it happened in front of Harry. Plus the last thing he got to see was his beloved Lily's eyes. It was as cool as it could be, in my opinion.

it was cool like at first i was really happy but then i wasnt bc he was trying to protect him (ya right) but ya it was sad and happy

also i didnt cry when he died i really only cried when hedwig died, pathetic right but why did hedwig have to die like snape did?

He had to die, but I cried, and I don't cry, I just don't. Let's face it, he would have been extremely hard to kill in battle and he did have to die for Harry to look at his memories. He had been trying to go to Harry, so he was probably thinking in the back of his mind, 'this is not good, why can't I be cool when I die?', he probably didn't want to die with a gaping bite hole in his neck, I mean, who would?

I agree, he had to die, and he couldn't have been killed in battle. He'd have avoided at all costs being in the Battles of Hogwarts, because whose side would he have been ostensibly fighting on?

Still, I find his death the saddest (objectively speaking, not the way it affected me personally) in the whole book. Lonely and unloved in life and in death. Seeing the love of his life's eyes in her son's face might have been consolation to him, but remember, he also died thinking he had failed in his task to protect Harry. (See "Whose death was the saddest" discussion.)

Yeah...he was trying to get Voldemort to let him go into the battle, probably to give Harry the memories, because it was time, seeing as how Dumbledore told him the right time would be when Voldemort feared for the life of Nagini.

He wouldn't even have succeeded in getting the memories to Harry if Harry hadn't luckily been there. Snapes death was the saddest in my opinion, though. The saddest chapter in the entire book was "the Princes Tale." Either that or "the Forest Again."

That's very true. And that also goes along with what other's were saying about the deaths fitting the characters. I mean, Severus' life was brutal and tragic, so it was fitting that his death was the same way. He is my favorite character from the series, and while I was upset that he died, I've finally come to terms with it and his death satisfied me more than I thought it would.

If he had just been killed by some wayword AK that was cast by some unnamed person, I would have been very angry. The fact that it was Voldemort who had him killed, and that it was Nagini who actually killed him, was very fitting. I always assumed that if he had to die, it would be because Voldemort found out he was a traitor- so I was surprised when I read that he was only killed because Voldemort needed him out of the way in order for him to use the Elder Wand. But, I guess I shouldn't have been surprised- Severus was able to fool Voldemort, and his followers, into believing he was still loyal to him for 16 years; so it's not surprising that he was able to keep it up even in death.

It was satisfying to see Harry rubbing it in Voldemort's face in the end, as well.

I completely agree. It was easier for me to accept his death knowing that the last thing Severus ever saw were not Voldemort's cold, red eyes before an AK curse, but rather the eyes of Harry Potter, and the eyes of Lily Evans. A terrible and beautiful scene at the same time.

How could it have been cooler? It was different than anyone else's, it was very dramatic, and it happened in front of Harry. Plus the last thing he got to see was his beloved Lily's eyes. It was as cool as it could be, in my opinion.

I couldn't agree more. I think his death couldn't have been more cooler. Extremely dramatic, shocking and (in it's own way) beautiful. IMO a simple Avada Kedavra would have been very disappointing (and far fetched because Voldemort knew it would be risky to kill Snape, the supposed master of the Elder Wand, with the Elder Wand).

I also agree with FleurduJardin, that Snape's death was by far the saddest death. He died alone, in a dusty shack, hated by innumerable people and afraid of what would happened to Harry because he had fail to tell him he had to die, failed Dumbledore, failed Lily. Although I still see Snape as an anti-hero and awful person, his death was brilliant.

How could it have been cooler? It was different than anyone else's, it was very dramatic, and it happened in front of Harry. Plus the last thing he got to see was his beloved Lily's eyes. It was as cool as it could be, in my opinion.

I respect your opinion, but I saw it in a different light. When I first read it, I believed Snape was trying to tell Harry something at the moment of his death - but died with out being able to do so. Later when JKR said he'd loathed Harry to his death, I realized he had just wanted to stare in Lily's eyes. I was rather taken aback that at the very last moment of his life, Snape would be able to look into Harry's face, see nothing of Harry and imagine the eyes belonged to Lily. For me, it did not make for a very admirable "last moment of death" for Snape because I had hoped that on the verge of death, Snape would finally be able to come to terms with Harry. But admittedly, it was a very well done twist on JKR's part to include it in the death scene.

I was rather taken aback that at the very last moment of his life, Snape would be able to look into Harry's face, see nothing of Harry and imagine the eyes belonged to Lily.

I thought (once I had realised he wanted to see Lily's eyes) that it's grea that he finally did see Lily in Harry, after refusing to do so all those years, and insisting on seeing only James in him. I think there was a tiny bit of a connection between them (Harry and Snape) in the last seconds of his life.

I respect your opinion, but I saw it in a different light. When I first read it, I believed Snape was trying to tell Harry something at the moment of his death - but died with out being able to do so. Later when JKR said he'd loathed Harry to his death, I realized he had just wanted to stare in Lily's eyes. I was rather taken aback that at the very last moment of his life, Snape would be able to look into Harry's face, see nothing of Harry and imagine the eyes belonged to Lily. For me, it did not make for a very admirable "last moment of death" for Snape because I had hoped that on the verge of death, Snape would finally be able to come to terms with Harry. But admittedly, it was a very well done twist on JKR's part to include it in the death scene.

Wickedwickedboy, you kind of forget that, because of his love for Lily, Snape spent most of his life doing his best to protect Harry, even if he disliked him intensely because of the memory of what James did to him. He was furious at Dumbledore for having "used" him under the pretence of protecting Harry while he was "preparing him like a lamb for slaughter" the whole time. I think that, despite appearances, he did, deep down, feel a bit of affection for Harry, if only for Lily's sake. How could he totally hate Lily's son, even if he was also James' son? The way I read the "Look at me" scene was not only seeing Lily's eyes and giving Harry his (Snape's) memories, I think he also wanted to look at Harry himself, the boy he'd worked so hard, putting himself in so much danger, to protect, and whom he thought was going to walk to his death.

I thought (once I had realised he wanted to see Lily's eyes) that it's grea that he finally did see Lily in Harry, after refusing to do so all those years, and insisting on seeing only James in him. I think there was a tiny bit of a connection between them (Harry and Snape) in the last seconds of his life.

Bravo, Yoana. I totally agree. :tu: (I think we wrote almost the same thing at about the same time.) :)

Well, let's say, 2 minutes apart. ;)

I respect your opinion, but I saw it in a different light. When I first read it, I believed Snape was trying to tell Harry something at the moment of his death - but died with out being able to do so. Later when JKR said he'd loathed Harry to his death, I realized he had just wanted to stare in Lily's eyes. I was rather taken aback that at the very last moment of his life, Snape would be able to look into Harry's face, see nothing of Harry and imagine the eyes belonged to Lily. For me, it did not make for a very admirable "last moment of death" for Snape because I had hoped that on the verge of death, Snape would finally be able to come to terms with Harry. But admittedly, it was a very well done twist on JKR's part to include it in the death scene.

I agree with you. It was selfish as I see it. Selfish like tearing Lily out of a picture of her family, selfish like taking the last page of her letter to Sirius. Selfish in Snape's steadfast refusal to accept that she belonged in that picture, to that man, and to their small child.

I respect your opinion, but I saw it in a different light. When I first read it, I believed Snape was trying to tell Harry something at the moment of his death - but died with out being able to do so. Later when JKR said he'd loathed Harry to his death, I realized he had just wanted to stare in Lily's eyes. I was rather taken aback that at the very last moment of his life, Snape would be able to look into Harry's face, see nothing of Harry and imagine the eyes belonged to Lily. For me, it did not make for a very admirable "last moment of death" for Snape because I had hoped that on the verge of death, Snape would finally be able to come to terms with Harry. But admittedly, it was a very well done twist on JKR's part to include it in the death scene.

I agree. I never expected Snape to come to terms with Harry, but that was a very cold and selfish moment. Snape was never able to see Harry for himself. In life, all he could see was James and he hated Harry solely because he looked like James. In death, he just wanted to see Lily's eyes and disregarded Harry all together because he still hated him. Definitely not admirable.

I agree with you. It was selfish as I see it. Selfish like tearing Lily out of a picture of her family, selfish like taking the last page of her letter to Sirius. Selfish in Snape's steadfast refusal to accept that she belonged in that picture, to that man, and to their small child.

Exactly. :agree:

I agree. I never expected Snape to come to terms with Harry, but that was a very cold and selfish moment. Snape was never able to see Harry for himself. In life, all he could see was James and he hated Harry solely because he looked like James. In death, he just wanted to see Lily's eyes and disregarded Harry all together because he still hated him. Definitely not admirable.

With all due respect, this thread is not about the things, admirable (like living a very dangerous double life just for love of Lily) or non-admirable (what you mentioned, though I find what he did understandable), that Snape did in life, it's about his death.

I don't think at the moment he died, Snape disregarded Harry at all. I am convinced he saw both Lily and her son Harry. It was Harry's life he'd been working so hard all the rest of his own life to protect after he failed to save Lily's.

Alan Rickman does him so much justice. I can't wait for the scene where he died, purely because I want to see how brilliant Alan is at it. I'm sure he'll be phenominal. However, I know I won't be able to hold back the tears!

I don't think at the moment he died, Snape disregarded Harry at all. I am convinced he saw both Lily and her son Harry. It was Harry's life he'd been working so hard all the rest of his own life to protect after he failed to save Lily's.

I see where you're coming from, but I don't agree that he saw Harry in any kind of noble, job-well-done sort of way. How on earth could he have done so, hating Harry as he did? All Harry meant to him, even at the moment of death, was a last look into a pair of green eyes.

^ That's what I think. I think he saw Lily in Harry's eyes. IMO, in Snape's last moment alive, he didn't see the James in Harry, he saw the Lily.

In other words, Harry was little more than a conduit... a glimpse into Lily's soul.

I agree that Snape's motive was to 'see Lily's eyes' one last time at his death. However, as he died 1 second after their eyes met, in reality, I don't think he actually had time to see much of anything at all. I believe it was the symbolism: that he wanted to see Lily's eyes just as he died. However, the realism is that Lily's eyes were not present, imo.

I thought (once I had realised he wanted to see Lily's eyes) that it's grea that he finally did see Lily in Harry, after refusing to do so all those years, and insisting on seeing only James in him. I think there was a tiny bit of a connection between them (Harry and Snape) in the last seconds of his life.

I agree. It was refreshing that even if no one else was around, he did see Lily in Harry. He spoke to Harry with so much bitterness throughout the series, its nice to see him admit that he is his mothers son, not just a replica of James.

I agree. It was refreshing that even if no one else was around, he did see Lily in Harry. He spoke to Harry with so much bitterness throughout the series, its nice to see him admit that he is his mothers son, not just a replica of James.

Yes, when he finally realized that Harry wasn't some stupid, worthless replica of his father, and he was truly Lily again, he felt a little bit of sorrow for the way he had treated Harry. It was fitting that his last act saved the world, by entrusting Harry with that great secret.

Yes, when he finally realized that Harry wasn't some stupid, worthless replica of his father, and he was truly Lily again, he felt a little bit of sorrow for the way he had treated Harry. It was fitting that his last act saved the world, by entrusting Harry with that great secret.

Well said, passionately too. That great secret saved the wizarding world and not to mention countless lives.

I somewhat saw it coming and I thought it was a bit of a sad waj to die. I mean just so Voldemort's wand would work better! And, it wasn't even Snape he had to kill. It was Harry....

Like other people said there wasn't much reason for him to continue living. And even though he was never one of my favorite characters I felt bad for him, especially at the end.

May I remind everyone that this thread is only about your reaction to Snape's death? Please keep the analysis of his motives in Severus Snape: Character Analysis v.5 (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=112236)

The death was kinda abrupt. I would've preferred if Snape could've told Harry everything personally

Saaaame. I wanted there to be some sort of interaction between Snape and Harry, other than the two-second dialogue that we got. His death was too abrupt, and too soon. An unheroic death fitted him though, for some reason.

I agree and disagree. I would have really liked to see Snape flex his amazing dueling skills once more before he died...but I think he didn't (didn't counter attack) because he knew his time was limited after encountering Harry at Hogwarts. Learning that LV planned to murder him on the spot probably set him in a panic were he wasn't able to react the way he normally would in a tight situation. Herioc would have been nice, but in this situation he was just lucky, on multiple levels, to have Harry present.

Also, I think if it was some blantanly valant act to contrbute to LV's defeat and partake in saving the world, it wouldn't have seemed so personal. His death was really between Harry, Lily, and him....and Dumbledore.

Saaaame. I wanted there to be some sort of interaction between Snape and Harry, other than the two-second dialogue that we got. His death was too abrupt, and too soon. An unheroic death fitted him though, for some reason.

Oh, I don't know. Snape and Harry were never very comfortable talking to each other, I don't think a deathbed confession would have been very easy for either of them, the Pensieve may have been a lot better in the whole.

I don't agree that an unheroic death fitted Snape better. He was a very brave man, and a super-skilled wizard. I don't like him as a person, notwithstanding his very touching love for Lily, but he deserved a better death. JMO.

Snape died without reason and he died in the most pathetic manner; I mean he was literally a sitting duck.

For his brilliance in the Dark Arts and Dueling, he died standing and staring at the Dark Lord.

Harry was there and since he was not killed using the killing curse, he was able to pass on the memories to Harry -- but it would have been nice had he died after he had patched up with Harry and had had a chance to see Lily's boy in James's son.

Harry was there and since he was not killed using the killing curse, he was able to pass on the memories to Harry -- but it would have been nice had he died after he had patched up with Harry and had had a chance to see Lily's boy in James's son.

It has been suggested that "Look at me" meant exactly this, that Snape did see Harry as Lily's son in his final moments.

It has been suggested that "Look at me" meant exactly this, that Snape did see Harry as Lily's son in his final moments.

That is what I actually thought when I read it. But then JKR said in an interview that Snape loathed Harry to his death, so that discounted the theory that Snape saw anything of Harry at all, imo. He just saw Lily's eyes and blocked the rest out.

I do not think that Snape saw Harry differently suddenly when he was about to die. He saw Lily's eyes and he died. He never had a chance to know Harry, Lily's child.

I felt Jo could have given them a chapter to meet -- or at the very least mentioned in the epilogue that Harry and Snape did talk once Snape's portrait appeared at Hogwarts. Both did not happen -- which is very sad.

He died doing so much and yet he did not do the most important th[I]ng -- make his peace with Lily's boy!

Sorry I'm abit late to this discussion. I was angry with his character at the end of HBP, never thought he was in love with Lily and read DH thinking he was a full blown death eater. After reading The Prince's Tale , His death has become one of the most tragic events in the series for me. What a bizarre feeling- shutting the book and feeling angry at Dumbledore for not being more honest with Snape, who was in peril every time he faced Voldemort. Always wanted Snape to be loyal to Dumbledore but to find out he was out of love for Lily- and then to die via Nagini, is truely unsettling. Guess I thought Snape knew more than he did and was more powerful, it was a letdown to find out he had less information than he did.

As much as I disliked the fact that Snape and Harry didn't make peace, I think that was pretty true to life - things don't always work out the way we want them to or the way we think they should. Unresolved anger and hatred often end in the death of one person, and DH followed this real-life lesson.
To me, Snape made the ultimate sacrifice much the same as Regulus did - honorably, but without anyone (wizard) knowing what they did until after it was done and they were dead. Tragic.

Snape's death was written perfectly. He had to remain alive to pass on the vial. He never could have had that discussion with Harry in person. Harry would never have listened to him. He couldn't have died in a duel or he wouldn't have been able to pass on the vial. He was a silent Hero just as he always wanted to be. I like Mrs. Sprout's comparison to Regulas Black.

It was also a good demonstration of how Voldemort truly cared about no one, not even his most trusted Death Eater. Well written on many levels.

In the long run, I don't think it was necessary, but it was inevitable from the moment Snape became a double agent. Ironically, it occurred for a different reason than what I expected. When Snape was killed, Voldemort still had no idea that he was a traitor. I figured Snape's death would come at the hands of an enraged Voldemort who just found out the truth or an Order member who did not yet know the truth, not simply as an attempt to become the master of the Elder Wand.

Do you believe it was necessary?

Yes. Harry would never have gotten over his personal hate for Snape otherwise. I can't see Snape revealing as much as he did on his death bed then if he wasn't. So because of both character's stubborness and the need to get over the past, Snape had to die.

Did you see it coming?

Yup

What did you think about how he died?

Disappointed that he didn't say it himself (that he loved Lily); die like by stepping in front of an AK for Harry or something like that and thinking that it was really different/a bit uncharacteristic that LV would choose to get Naginin to kill him instead of AK.

And how did you feel about it, are you sad, happy, or in total shock still?

Happy, that I was right, he didn't care about Harry or Dumbledore or anyone else and did it all for Lily.

Do you believe it was necessary?

Yes, Snape just had to die, regardless of him being good or bad. I knew he was going to die right when he killed Dumbledore. There was no way he could lead a normal life after all he did.

Did you see it coming?

Yes, I accidentally checked out some spoilers (but I already had a feeling he was going to die after Book Six, so no harm done). I thought the spoilers were bogus since the spoilers read like a bad fan fiction but it was the real thing (sorry, Book Seven just didn't live up to my expectations).

What did you think about how he died?

Well I thought it was a bizarre death, eaten by a snake. It seems Voldemort only reserved important deaths for Nagini's consumption, he was going to feed Harry to her afterall. But I thought it was kind of schmaltzy, Snape looking into Harry's (or should I say Lily's?) eyes one last time before he died.

And how did you feel about it, are you sad, happy, or in total shock still?

Well I was happy because it finally cleared up this whole Snape mess once and for all.

I dont think it was necessary. I thought he was good, and was incredibly sad when he was killed.

I saw it coming, but not in that way. I thought Harry might kill him, only to later realize that he made a mistake when he found out Snape was good.

Like Bass_Man I thought it was bizzare, and definately not what I had in mind. It was brilliant though, as it came as a total surprise to me.

Like I said earlier, I was sad, as I wanted Snape and Harry to finally stop loathing each other, as liking each other is pretty much out of the question after everything they have been through.

Do you believe it was necessary?
Yes. I could never imagine Snape giving Hrary all the memories with Lily while being alive. The only person who knew about Snape's love for Lily was Dumbledore, and Snape made him promise to keep it a secret. I don't see Snape willing to let anyone else know about his love for Lily.

Did you see it coming?
Yes. Before DH came out, I couldn't imagine Snape living. He was far too important to the plot to survive!

What did you think about how he died?
It was . . . sick, but necessary. He needed to give Harry his memories while dying, and getting hit by AK doesn't work that well.

And how did you feel about it, are you sad, happy, or in total shock still?
I don't feel really sad. It makes me sound heartless, but I already knew it was coming, so I had plenty of time to prepare for his death.

I cried too. I thought it wasn't his way to go. I don't think Snape would have told Harry anything. To pour out his heart to this boy that looked like the person that totally humilated him every chance he got? Wouldn't have happened, it would have taken too much off his calus personna. I think giving Harry his memories at death was the only way this interaction would seem right.

i was a bit sad when snape died. he wasn't very appreciated when he lived and he did a lot to help dumbledore and harry. and it was only in death that anyone truly realized what he had done to help the wizarding world and start to appreciate him. and to be completely honest thats a bit depressing to me personally.

Do you believe it was necessary?

From a practical standpoint, no, because he did not have control of the Elder Wand. From a litery standpoint, yes, because I do not believe he would have given Harry all the Lily memories if he had not been close to dying.


Did you see it coming?
I felt that Snape would indeed die in DH, but I still let out a gasp of shock when Nagini finally did the deed.

What did you think about how he died?
It sure must have been painful! I was very touched when he said "Look..at..me"- that was a powerful moment.


And how did you feel about it, are you sad, happy, or in total shock still?
I can't say I'm happy, but there were no tears over here. I felt sorry for him, especially after reading TPT, but I was never really attached to the guy.



-LilyPod

Do you believe it was necessary?

For plot reasons, yes I think it was necessary. Snape was too much of a tragic character to live on - there was too much torment in his life, and he wasn't the kind of person who could move on easily, so I don't think he ever would have been happy again. Also, it seems like his dying was the only way Harry would have actually taken a break from the battle and gone to check the memories.

Did you see it coming?

Not his manner of death, but I was 100% sure he would die in the book. And... I kind of got his death spoiled for me. Hours before the release, my friend was on youtube and opened a video (not Harry Potter related, mind you) and it flashed "VOLDEMORT KILLS SNAPE!!" really randomly. So then he told me he got a death spoiled, and so I just had to ask "good or bad character?" and he didn't know what to say, so I knew. So yeah, I saw it coming, lol. :P

What did you think about how he died?

Horrible - not the way it was written, that was fine, but the fact that Voldemort gave who he thought was a loyal servant a painful death just because he wanted his wand... oi. New low, Voldemort, and that's saying something.

And how did you feel about it, are you sad, happy, or in total shock still?

I'm not in shock anymore. When it happened, I was definitely shocked, especially because I thought he was actually seeing Harry for his own person as he said "Look...at...me..." (I wasn't a believer of the Snape-loved-Lily theory). I can't say I'm sad about it, though, which sounds bad, but I still really dislike him, and in a way I think he'd been wanting to be at peace for years. I'm not jumping for joy that he's dead, though.

Do you believe it was necessary?

Yes it was. I believe that Harry would've been able to forgive Snape and grow to respect him after seeing the memories had he been alive. Snape, on the other hand, may have refrained from giving the memories at all, or if he did, he might've distanced himself from Harry altogether.

Did you see it coming?

Yes. He was in too much danger from the beginning and it would've taken a miracle to get him out of the mess he had trapped himself into.

What did you think about how he died?

I must admit that I was taken aback. I imagined a scene where Voldemort discovers his true loyalties and he kills Snape himself.

And how did you feel about it, are you sad, happy, or in total shock still?

Well, I don't feel anything. I knew that he wasn't going to make it so it wasn't much of a shocker for me.

Do you believe it was necessary?
Yes. Snape could never have told Harry the truth. I don't think he could face the boy who he hated pitying him or respecting him because then he would have to accept that Harry really was more than just a copy of James. I think him dying was the only way he could tell Harry.

Did you see it coming?
Not really. I didn't really know what would happen to Snape. I think that he would be happier dead and I knew it was always a strong possibility.

What did you think about the way Snape died?
I think that it was a vert unheroic death for such a hero. But i suppose it was a tragic and painful death for a tragic and painful life. His last words were brilliant 'look...at...me' I burst into tears because that was when i realised that he must have loved Lily and i thought i was so sad how it had all ended up.

And how did you feel about it, are you sad, happy, or in total shock still?
i was shocked at first and then just really sad. i cried all through TPT and I don't cry that much at books.

I was really pleased with the way Snape's death was handled! I knew he'd die, but I was terrified it was going to be some heroic death where he comes out as Dumbledore's man and - bleugh. I'm not a Snape fan. He was still a git when it comes down to it, and I personally don't think he deserved a really heroic death.

I'm also so glad Snape wasn't telling Harry about the Snily thing. I read a fanfic where that happened, and I was thinking, "Why isn't Harry grossed out by this? Snape loved his mum??"

Do you believe it was necessary?
Yes. Snape could never have told Harry the truth. I don't think he could face the boy who he hated pitying him or respecting him because then he would have to accept that Harry really was more than just a copy of James. I think him dying was the only way he could tell Harry.

This is true. Jo could have gone either way in terms of what happened here. She could have allowed him to live, and thus left parts of the story untold, because it's true that Severus wouldn't have allowed Harry to see his memories if he hadn't been dying; or she could kill Severus off, thus ensuring that Harry got his memories. She chose the latter; and even though Severus is my favorite character (besides Draco and Lucius), I wouldn't have felt satisfied with the story if he had lived. There was just too much against him; and even he knew it was too late because he raised his wand, but he didn't attempt to use any curse against his attacker. Instinct told him to raise his wand, but he knew that anything beyond that was hopeless.

His death was horrible, but it was necessary. And I must say that I was glad Jo didn't have Voldemort kill him because he found out that Severus had been playing him for a fool. That was what pretty much everyone was expecting her to do, so I'm glad she went in another direction. It shows how brilliant Severus was; because he continued to fool Voldemort even in death.

The icing on the cake was when Harry rubbed it in Voldemort's face during their final confrontation. That was a great scene, and I was laughing the whole time I was reading it. So at that point I was crying and laughing at the same time.

I'm also so glad Snape wasn't telling Harry about the Snily thing. I read a fanfic where that happened, and I was thinking, "Why isn't Harry grossed out by this? Snape loved his mum??"


He wasn't, though, was he?

I cried so much when Snape died. I knew after reading the HBP he was going to redeem himself some way because there's no way one of the greatest characters in the book could be evil! and i was so happy when i read his memories.

Snape has got to be, in my opinion at least, the most interesting and mysterious character of all. And he's so confusing to people, people don't know what to make of him, good, bad, or what, and his mysterious soul I think is what makes him so likeable! Snape's death ... I too suspected it would come, but had rather hoped it wouldn't. I wasn't sure whether he was good or bad, but he's one of the greatest characters, for so many reasons! His death was very tragic and I thought it would be in battle. But it is fitting that he gets killed by Voldemort himself, in private, and no-one would have known if Harry hadn't been there, and no-one would have known the truth of Snape! Everyone believed him to be an evil Death Eater, but that wasn't the case! Do we know if Harry ever told anyone of his findings? That Snape was good, really was working for Dumbledore the whole time? Or did he keep it secret to himself, and the trio and Ginny? I hope he had told of the truth... to think that people still thought badly of him, it would be sad and it would be injustice. Although Snape was no typical hero, and certainly not a man you'd invite round for tea and crumpets (:lol:) he should have recognition and praise. Although I think, if it was told, the things about Lily would be left out.
I felt very sad about his death, still do now. Even more so.

Do you believe it was necessary?

As written in the story, it became necessary because of Voldemort's reasoning about why the elder wand didn't give him the kind of power he expected.

Did you see it coming?

Not really, because I wasn't sure that Voldemort & Snape would cross paths again after Snape was driven from Hogwarts prior to the battle. I had always thought he was still loyal to Dumbledore, so I expected him to end up looking for Harry, not Voldemort.

What did you think about how he died?

Pretty cruel, but what I'd come to expect from Voldemort.

And how did you feel about it, are you sad, happy, or in total shock still?

I don't really feel sad, per se, although I do feel sad for Snape. He stayed true to his commitment to Dumbledore and getting rid of Voldemort -- he no doubt became aware that Voldy was on the verge of killing him, and it was a rather gruesome way to die.

Do you believe it was necessary?
At first, I couldn't believe it and thought it was completely unnecessary and out of order to do that to the underdog character. I was distraught and just couldn't stop asking myself why...I guess I was just completely overwhelmed. But now, as I've had time to analyse the situation, I can actually see where JK was coming from in killing the character off, not that I'm condoning it!

Did you see it coming?
I didn't. Not at all. I suppose I should have done really because I think we do learn to expect the unexpected with Joanne, I did expect that Snape was good, and most people I think, when they realised that they realised that him and Harry weren't going to have a proper relationship, and that JK would kill the character off. But until it actually happened, I didn't believe for a moment that Snape was going to die, to me he seemed like one of those unbeatable characters, someone that can't possibly be killed, like Dumbledore and Moody.


What did you think about how he died?
I was gutted. So completely gutted. I cried and I cried and I cried because I just couldn't believe it. When he died we didn't know that he was good (although I speculated it) and even then I was distraught, because good or bad he's just one of those characters that you have to love, because he's just hilarious and I think he's the best character in the series.
Also, I don't think it was his way to go. Not at all, I think he should have died nobly, instead of being bitten by Nagini which I consider to be an insult to such a wonderful brave man. He should have died in battle if he had to die at all, like a soldier. Not offered up as bait just because Voldemort thought he needed to, which he didn't. Therefore, Snape died for no reason at all....And that makes me angry.


And how did you feel about it, are you sad, happy, or in total shock still?

I was in total shock, but now I've managed to analyse the situation and I understand it more, understood why Joanne had to do it. But I'm still really really sad. He was one of those men that just couldn't die, because you feel that part of you dies aswell. And I hate the fact that he died not knowing whether or not Harry succeeded, or whether Harry would ever find out who he really was.

Do we know if Harry ever told anyone of his findings? That Snape was good, really was working for Dumbledore the whole time? Or did he keep it secret to himself, and the trio and Ginny?

We do know. Harry announced this fact to Voldemort in front of all the participants in the Battle of Hogwarts.

"Severus Snape wasn't yours," said Harry. "Snape was Dumbledore's, Dumbledore's from the moment you started hunting down my mother."


And, yeah, it was sad. For me anyway, the death was not the saddest part, though. It was seeing his life right afterwards that was worst.

What did you think about how he died?
Also, I don't think it was his way to go. Not at all, I think he should have died nobly, instead of being bitten by Nagini which I consider to be an insult to such a wonderful brave man. He should have died in battle if he had to die at all, like a soldier.

If it makes you feel any better about it, he died like a spy. This was the role he chose to play for Dumbledore. Living and dying unappreciated by the people on his own side was one of the sacrifices he made.

Was snape in any way important to the outcome of the story?
I wondered what exactly was his use to Dumbledore?

Was snape in any way important to the outcome of the story?
I wondered what exactly was his use to Dumbledore?
The staff will probably suggest we take this discussion to the Snape thread in Legilimency Studies. :)

However, short answer: Harry would not have received the sword in DH, or the news he was a Horcrux, without Snape. On the grand scale of the series story, Voldemort would never have heard of the Prophecy without Snape, and Lily's death would not have protected Harry, because it was for Snape that Voldemort ofered her a chance to live.

Do you believe it was necessary?

Yes, it was. I agree with the fact that Snape never would have given his memories to Harry had he not been dying. It would have been too..embarrassing, too revealing for him.

Did you see it coming?

I thought he might die, though I would rather he hadn't. If he didn't die, he would have no place to go..Dumbledore gone, Voldemort gone.

What did you think about how he died?

It was really bad. That was pretty damn harsh of Voldemort to do that to him..instead of just killing him. It was bad. It kind of makes you wonder if Voldemort wasn't starting to figure things out, loyalty wise. And it was just such a bad death for such a good man.

And how did you feel about it, are you sad, happy, or in total shock still?

At first, I admit I was totally shocked. I had to re read the part. Then I was sad. Even before it was revealed that Snape was good, I always believed in him..and then when he died, it was just so sad. I'll tell you, though, I almost cried when I found out he was good. That's how happy I was.

The staff will probably suggest we take this discussion to the Snape thread in Legilimency Studies.

You know us so well. :D

Do you believe it was necessary?
Killing Snape as hastily as he did was just a sign of how dumb Voldemort can sometimes be. Again, he didn't stop to think, and just went through with the first thought that went through his mind. Having Snape die, however, was necessary, because if he had lived, and told Harry in person what Dumbledore had said, Harry never would have believed him, because he still hated him. Harry needed to see Dumbledore say it with his own eyes. Also, there never would have been enough time for harry to completely forgive Snape if he had lived. Snape would have just gotten in the way. So yes, his death was necessary.

Did you see it coming?
Of course! Even though I didn't want him to be, I always knew that he would turn out good. Voldemort would find out about this, because he knows everything, so he would get him out of the way. I knew, as soon as Voldemort told Lucius to fetch Snape, he would die. Voldemort had no use for him. Of course, a fan who really knew how JKR writes would have seen his death coming from a mile away.

What did you think about how he died?
I was happy when Snape died, but the way that killed him made me cringe. No one, except maybe Voldemort, deserves to have their head almost bitten off by a giant Snape. I, like many others, expected Snape to have a heroic death protecting Harry. Getting his head chopped off by Nagini wasn't pretty, and i didn't like it. i would have preferred it if he had had a spectacular duel with Voldemort, but alas, it was not to be.

And how did you feel about it?
I felt the tiniest drop of pity for Snape, for he didn't deserve to be killed that terribly, but I was rather relieved when he finally died. I'm Harry's biggest supporter ever, and the way Snape treated him was absolutely unacceptable, no matter how much he hated his father. After all, he was his mother's son as well. I did want Snape to die in the end. I know I should be sad, but I'm a little happy, now that I've gotten over my huge shock of what happened. It kills me to do this, but.... Severus Snape- R.I.P.

Do we know if Harry ever told anyone of his findings? That Snape was good, really was working for Dumbledore the whole time? Or did he keep it secret to himself, and the trio and Ginny? I hope he had told of the truth... to think that people still thought badly of him, it would be sad and it would be injustice.

Of course Harry told. He told everyone during the last face-off with Tom Riddle. He taunted Riddle with it "You thought he was yours, but he was DD's all along" (quoted from memory, accuracy not guaranteed but the gist is) and "Don't you get it? He never defeated Dumbledore, it was arranged between them, you killed the wrong man, Snape was never Master of the Elder Wand." So Snape was vindicated after his death.

Harry also honored his memory by pairing his name with DD's when he named his second son "Albus Severus".

Snape died a tragic and lonely death, but did not die in vain. Killing him slowed down Voldie and gave him a false sense of security in that he thought he had become the true Master of the Elder Wand. It took him some time to realize that the wand didn't work any better for him after he killed Snape than it did before.

Yes, his death was necessary. I have a hard time imagining Harry sitting still long enough for Snape alive to tell him the whole story, not in the middle of battle and when he still thought of Snape as DD's murderer and Voldie's most important DE. That also made it easier for the other members of the Order, can you imagine how embarrassing relations with Snape would have been had he lived? They'd owe him an apology and would have admired him, but they still wouldn't have liked him much. The remaining DEs, on the other hand, would be out for his head. I know that's not a big reason for saying his death was "necessary", but it did make things easier for everybody all around. :cool:

At first I wasn't so bothered by his death though I did ponder on the whole 'look at me' thing. Moving on to the 'princes tale', at the end of it I freaked.

"And Snape left the room. Harry rose up out of the Pensive, and moments later her lay on the carpeted floor in exactly the same room: Snape might just have closed the door."

It took me a while to completely register exactly how upsetting the loss was. It was probably the whole tragedy of his life that got me weeping. He'd risked so much simply for the memory of a woman who probably didn't even consider him in a romantic way. He'd kept on loving her despite this and even after her death. Snape's grief lasted some sort of 16+ years.

It answered all the questions and Snape was shown to be a poor little innocent in it all. I really didn't like Snape before.. he was a miserable unfair teacher and quite frankly even if JK allowed him to live on I think he would have kept that going. He did need to die however. His only reason for living was already buried and his duty had been done to preserve her memory, to respect it. I think the sadistic Snape probably had been dieing for a taste of death- probably to share it with her.

I don't think Harry and Snape would ever get on. Harry is just an ongoing reminder that James sort of 'won' and Snape remained the looser in it all. Had Harry been a female I think Snape may have acted differently (not anything gross, I just think the whole 'James' thing wouldn't be so strong) ... but as Harry is who he is and looks who he does I don't think that would have helped at all. It's sad that Snape only saw the worst of Harry most of the time.. maybe had they gotten to know each other without prejudices he would have seen how much Harry's personality is like his mothers.

Did Harry ever tell of how he found out of Snape's true loyalties? You'd think, really, that people would ask as how he came to know. I know that everyone would believe what Harry says to be fact. It's possible that people would just think 'that's what he says, he knows, okay so Snape was good' no further questions asked. But you'd think wouldn't you, that somebody would wonder where he got the information? And would Harry say? Harry keeps a lot of things secret and to himself. Just being told 'Snape was a good man! The whole time! He was ours!' with no other explanation could leave you feeling confused.
Of course, I could be thinking too deep into that ;)



He'd risked so much simply for the memory of a woman who probably didn't even consider him in a romantic way. He'd kept on loving her despite this and even after her death. Snape's grief lasted some sort of 16+ years.

He did need to die however. His only reason for living was already buried and his duty had been done to preserve her memory, to respect it. I think the sadistic Snape probably had been dieing for a taste of death- probably to share it with her.


Great post :tu: I completely agree :) ...

Did Harry ever tell of how he found out of Snape's true loyalties? You'd think, really, that people would ask as how he came to know. I know that everyone would believe what Harry says to be fact. It's possible that people would just think 'that's what he says, he knows, okay so Snape was good' no further questions asked. But you'd think wouldn't you, that somebody would wonder where he got the information? And would Harry say? Harry keeps a lot of things secret and to himself. Just being told 'Snape was a good man! The whole time! He was ours!' with no other explanation could leave you feeling confused.
Of course, I could be thinking too deep into that ;)




Great post :tu: I completely agree :) ...

I would say that considering Harry screamed it out in the midst of the battle with all those people looking on, most people know that Snape was loyal because of his enduring emotions for Lily. What those living thought of Snape after he died would be mixed - just as readers opinions are mixed. Some would see Snape as having bravely worked for Dumbledore due to his ongoing emotions and felt it was a wonderful thing. Others, like myself, would have found his ongoing emotions distasteful and while recognizing he'd done brave things, feel he was undeserving of honor or merit. Especially those who had dealt with him personally. So Snape in death - his memory - would be as ambiguously recalled as he himself was during a great portion of his life, imo.

I'm a new fan, just read all 7 books in 3 weeks. Now I feel like I've lost a friend because I won't be reading anymore HP books. :( _ _ _

I have absolutely LOVED Snape's character when I first saw him in 1st movie a few years ago. I knew he was evil and mean to Harry, but there was just something about him that had me like him so.

It did come as a shock to me that Snape died. I was very unhappy about that, but it was soooooo sweet the way JKR told his story. I had a thought while reading HBP that Snape liked Lily, but I thought his feelings might have come after her trying to defend him when James and Sirius were fooling around with Snape by the pond.

It really touched me when Harry had named his 2nd child after Dumbledore AND Snape.

A 2 of questions....

Did anyone ever wonder if Snape's painting appeared on the headmasters' wall?

I remember reading somewhere that every wizard's patronus is unique to each wizard which is why the Order used it to communicate. If that's the case, then how did Snape make his patronus to be Lily's doe?

Did anyone ever wonder if Snape's painting appeared on the headmasters' wall?

I remember reading somewhere that every wizard's patronus is unique to each wizard which is why the Order used it to communicate. If that's the case, then how did Snape make his patronus to be Lily's doe?

:welcome: cybersaint!

To answer your questions, Jo has confirmed in several interviews that Harry made sure that Snape's portrait was placed in the office, in honor of him:)

Also, I am not sure where you heard or read that fact about patronuses, but I belive it has been made clear in the books that powerful and sometimes desperate love can cause someone's patronus to change to mirror the image of their loved one. An example is Tonks, whose patronus changed to a wolf when she fell in love with Lupin, and Snape, whose patronus changed to a replica of Lily's because of his love for her- she was most likely the "happy thought" he needed to produce one.

-LilyPod

I would have much preferred if Harry accidently found Snape's memories in the pensive then rushed to save him in the nick of time. Then Snape strikes the final blow in Nagini and in the Epilogue, Snape becomes Headmaster with a legacy as great as Dumbledore's.

Snape is by far the best character in the book. Trapped in tradition, torn by love, and died as the most courageous unsung hero in wizard history.

Do you believe it was necessary?
Unfortunately, I actually see it being necessary if Voldemort really wanted the Elder Wand.


Did you see it coming?
I did not, I repeat, did not see Snape's death coming. It was very shocking and very heartshattering. Snape was one of my favorite characters, and I didn't think that Voldemort would ever kill his "faithful" servant.


What did you think about how he died?
I actually thought it was cruel, how Voldemort just decided, he needed to die just because he wanted the Elder Wand. I mean if he was so powerful, and he thought he actually was, why would he need the wand to make him so powerful?


And how did you feel about it, are you sad, happy, or in total shock still?
It really upset me how Voldemort just let him die by himself. I actually shedded a few tears, and I'm still in shock. :upset:

When I first heard of Harry Potter I must admit I was not a fan. Not because of the stories or the characters but just because of the constant press coverage of it. One day I just decided to read it which my sis had a copy of the second book and every since I have been a fan of the series. I was reading it while I was watching the first movie. I finally got it and it was well worth the coverage.

I always thought there was more to Professor Snape the what JKR was telling us. When I got to the chapter where Professor Snape died I cried, and I think I cried even harder when harry went into the pensive to see his memories. There was always more to Professor Snape that is probably why so many like him. I think it was a great tribute that Harry did naming his son after him. After all those years under Professor Snape, Harry finally got it. Professor Snape is an imperfect man, who made a terrible mistake that cost him dearly. He was not perfect than again who is?

^Me too (with the I-cried-harder-when-Harry-saw-the-memories comment). Actually, that whole section was hard for me; just the transition from the last line of 'The Eldar Wand' to reading the title 'The Prince's Tale' (easily the best title for an HP chapter, IMHO) had me screaming! :lol:

I don't think I ever empathized with Snape quite as much as I did when he was dying on the floor in the Shrieking Shack. It's just like ecardina was saying earlier: Snape spent his entire life with the deck stacked against him and then dies with his efforts only being recognized at the last minute. And, while last minute is still better than never, it still seems like it wasn't enough...

On the other hand, I'm not sure Snape would have been able to live to the end of the series because he'd have too many enemies and too many things to try to atone for. You knew he was going to die (actually, he was about the only death I was sure of, aside from Bellatrix).

What do you guys think? Do you think Snape could have lived to the end?

My heart just aches when I read that whole part, particularly when Harry and Snape are staring at each other and then Snape says 'look...at...me'...

I really hope the movie version is as dramatic as it was in the book!

*sniffle*

[QUOTE=theotherwoman;4856134On the other hand, I'm not sure Snape would have been able to live to the end of the series because he'd have too many enemies and too many things to try to atone for. You knew he was going to die (actually, he was about the only death I was sure of, aside from Bellatrix).
[/QUOTE]

I was sure he was going to die as well, but I don't see that as necessary in any way. Certainly, I did not think he had to die because he had so much to atone for. After all, what made you, friendofpotter, and me ( :sad: ) cry more, the death, or the story of his life?

As for his enemies - who is left, at the end, that would still seek Snape's death? Surely not the Malfoys, whose son he took an Unbreakable Vow to protect. And Malfoy seems to be the most dangerous DE left alive and free. Agains those who remain, I think Snape would be able to take care of himself. On the Order side, once the true story is known, I doubt anyone would seek his death.

Sure, it might be awkward. :D

Do you think towards the end he didn't really mind whether he lived or died?

I would phrase it differently; it seems to me he cared more about playing his part in Dumbledore's plans than about whether he lived or died. So, for example, when Voldemort killed him, he did not want to die. He was trying to talk his way out of the corner he was in to gain the time he needed to find Harry and tell him what he needed to know.

Do you think towards the end he didn't really mind whether he lived or died?

Yes, I think you're right. His work was done, his love had been dead for 16 years now, he had nothing left to live for. He had no friends, and his colleagues at Hogwarts and in the Order of the Phoenix, while admiring him for his bravery and his undercover work, still probably wouldn't like him a whole lot.

He died doing what he wanted to do. My one regret is that he died not knowing that he had succeeded in protecting Lily's son. He thought Dumbledore was sending Harry to his death, and all his work and courage had been for nothing. But he also died looking into Lily's eyes, and I like to think that towards the end, he saw more of Lily and less of James in Harry.

His death and Dobby's were among the best written scenes in the book, IMO. :tu:

I agree, I believe that Snape died the same night Lily died. His only mission in life was to protect Harry until Harry had the necessary tools/knowledge to fight Voldemort. I wish we would have seen a more heart to heart between Snape in Harry, though. That would have been interesting.

I wish we would have seen a more heart to heart between Snape in Harry, though. That would have been interesting.

So do I, but that's a bit unrealistic of us. Where and when could they have had a heart-to-heart? The only opportunity was the Occlumency lessons, but Snape was still blinded by his resentment of James, and Harry was rebellious and not at all prepared to be cooperative. They both missed their only chance to get to know each other better and maybe like each other a little bit.:(

I don't think Snape would have liked to admit to Harry face to face that he was in love with his mother and that he spent the last 16 years plotting against Voldemort and trying to save Harry's life. I think he would have hated having to explain it and thought it was better he found out through his memories, it would save the awkward confrontation which he was quite clearly dreading.

By far my favorite chapter is the Prince's Tale and the chapters that followed. We really got to see a side of Professor Snape that he has tried so hard to hide. And we know the reason he had a very unhappy childhood until Lily came along. It the first time it understood friendship and love. To see this of Professor Snape particular in this chapter was great writing by JKR. In a way I felt like I didn't like James and Sirius as much as before because of what they did to Professor Snape. Did anyone else feel that way?

Do you believe it was necessary?

- No. I think it was inevitable, especially after the climax of HBP, because Snape's life as a double agent was so dangerous. Even given his brilliance as an Occlumens, and after having fooled Voldemort for so long, it really was only a matter of time.
- I think also the fact that Snape dies truly gives him an even more heroic edge, underlines the bleak tragedy of his life ... and throws his ultimate heroism into stark relief. :love: Sorry, but I do love the snarky git. :lol:

But I don't think it was necessary. If I had written that character, I'd have tried to ensure his survival. ;)

Did you see it coming?

- Oh heck, yeah. Especially after the death of Dumble at Snape's hands on Dumble's orders. Although I didn't think that Rowling would let Harry kill Snape in the final book: Nagini gets there first, and Harry then learns The Truth.

What did you think about how he died?

- Spectacularly horrible, cruel and shocking death. Awful, agonising death. Gut-wrenching, especially as he must have been in utter despair as he lay bleeding to death in the Shack, not realising that Harry really was there after all ... :sad:

- But, boy, talking about going out in style!


And how did you feel about it, are you sad, happy, or in total shock still?

- I wasn't shocked. I strongly suspected that Severus would not survive Book 7.

- I was sad that Rowling didn't write at least the beginnings of emotional closure for Snape and Harry while Snape was still alive. Of course, the way she sets the whole plot up from the word go, from the first book onwards, it's clear she never had that intention. Personally, I regret that.

- I would so have loved it if she'd had Snape dying to save Harry, I dunno, deflecting an Avada Kevadra, or something. Oh, well.

- "Look ... at ... me". So sad. :sad:

- My consolation is that a great character had such a memorable ending. At least his ultimate heroism is not in doubt!

Do you believe it was necessary?
I didn't think so when he actually died. I had thought, coming into the book, that Snape had been on his own side the entire time, and chose Voldemort over Dumbledore at the end of the 6th book. Until the end, there was nothing that stood out to me to make me question this. Only after he died (which I had imagined would happen whether it was through Harry or Voldemort I didn't know) did I really appreciate the death. So now, yes, I think it was. Snape's strong hold to life was Lily and protecting her son. Though he had not given Harry his memories until after he was already dying, I think it would have been hard for Snape to keep going after Harry had vanquished Voldemort. Snape had given his life to protecting Harry, and when he had finished that, what was left for his story? I was very sad after reading that chapter, and didn't want him to die, but I knew it was a beautiful end for him to see Lily's eyes with his dying breath, and that he had died after doing his last to protect Harry. So, yes, I think it was necessary, because it would was the end of Snape's story.

Did you see it coming?
Not in that exact way, but I did see him dying before the book finished. I just didn't know who would kill him or how.

What did you think about how he died?
I thought it was tragic that it wasn't through a duel or by defending himself, but in that exact manner. Snape deserved a very heroic death, like James. I now wish he had died protecting Harry from Voldemort in a very honorable battle. I was sad that this was not the case.

And how did you feel about it, are you sad, happy, or in total shock still?
I'm happy the very last thing he saw was Lily's eyes through Harry. I thought that he would appreciate that being the last thing he saw before passing on. I'm also sad he died, because Harry had never gotten a chance to appreciate all Snape had done for him until after Snape was dead, but I was happy that Snape could move on. His last real goal, the last real thing pegging him to life, was protecting Lily Potter's son. After that, where would Snape's story go? Love someone else? Unlikely. He had achieved a year as DADA professor, too, one of his huge goals. What was left for him to do? I thought for him, his story ended with him giving Harry the biggest help of all, and was what really helped Harry defeat Voldemort. So I'm very mixed in that.

I cied when Snape died. He was the most tragic character in the series. He didn't have a happy childhood. Lily brought happiness in his life. She had a way of seeing beauty in everyone. Snape treated Harry cruelly because he saw James face in his face but also Lily's eyes. What do you expect from him. James did so many terrible things to him. It was so painful to see both his enemy's and love's looks in Harry's face. He truly loved Lily and Harry. He was better than Dumbledore as he's horrified when Dumbledore tells him that Harry has to die. His affection for Harry is shown when he tells Dumbledore that he's been raising Harry like a pig to be slaughtered and when he comes to Sirius's house and cries holding the second part of Lily's letter. He thought that he had hit Harry when his curse hit George by mistake. It was so painful when his love married his enemy. The way James treated Severus made him to revenge upon Harry as he saw James in Harry. But he also felt guilty because of Harry's eyes. He was the true protector of Harry Potter. He wasn't two faced like Dumbledore who acted as if he was truly keen on protecting Harry. He didn't betray Harry like Dumbledore. He felt guilty for Lily's death and took it upon him to look after Harry though in a very different way without letting Harry know. It was luck that Voldemort tried to kill Harry with the Elder Wand resulting in his death. If Voldemort had tried to kill Harry with his own wand Harry might have died. Snape truly cared about Harry. It was true love he had for Lily. He never married nor loved anyone else and made his sole mission in life to protect Harry unlike Dumbledore whose sole mission was to kill voldemort. Snape wasn't just working for Voldemort on Dumbledore's orders. It was also on his own. If he had shown affection to Harry in school Voldemort would not have trusted him when he came to power. Snape was the man who won even after losing everything. He shouldn't have died. It was so painful for him to be hated by Harry when actually he was loving and protecting him.