Severus Snape's Death

It was so painful for him to be hated by Harry when actually he was loving and protecting him.

Not love.

"For him?" he says in DH. He cares only for Lily, and therefore is protecting not caring for Harry.


His affection for Harry is shown when he tells Dumbledore that he's been raising Harry like a pig to be slaughtered

He doesn't know about the Horcruxes.
So therefore he doesn't see the necessity in Harry dying.

I really, really disliked Snape's death. I always expected him to die in the last book, as I couldn't see any way he could still be alive when it was all over. But I hated the awful and useless way it happened. So... I would have wanted him to have a much more active and hero-like death, I thought he deserved it.

I also found it horrible that he died believing that Harry would die too.

I really regret that he didn't die the hero in which he was

I really, really disliked Snape's death. I always expected him to die in the last book, as I couldn't see any way he could still be alive when it was all over. But I hated the awful and useless way it happened. So... I would have wanted him to have a much more active and hero-like death, I thought he deserved it.

I also found it horrible that he died believing that Harry would die too.

Actually, that's the way heroes die... In a totally lame and seemingly insignificant way. Have to ever heard of Carl jung's archetypes? Well a hero is usually undone by something quite simple, even though they are very strong people.

I liked Snapes Death, mainly because Harry just sat there and watched it being unable (or unwilling) to do anything about it. Voldemort seemed to be giving Snape a slighty painful but quick death. I guess that was Snape's reward for his faithful service, that was no longer required.
Snape wasn't a hero, he was an anti hero -
noun a central character in a story, film, or play who lacks conventional heroic qualities.

In the literary sense, your point is arguable. :) I think toonmili may have meant in a nontechnical sense, the way the word 'hero' is used in real life, see senses c and d.

1 a: a mythological or legendary figure often of divine descent endowed with great strength or ability b: an illustrious warrior c: a man admired for his achievements and noble qualities d: one that shows great courage

Whether or not Snape was a hero can be discussed in the Character analysis thread.

I liked Snapes Death, mainly because Harry just sat there and watched it being unable (or unwilling) to do anything about it. Voldemort seemed to be giving Snape a slighty painful but quick death. I guess that was Snape's reward for his faithful service, that was no longer required.
Snape wasn't a hero, he was an anti hero -
noun a central character in a story, film, or play who lacks conventional heroic qualities.

i agree--i think snape died a death that reflected his life. if he had died protecting harry, it would have completely been against his character and how he usually behaves, he is not a traditional hero like harry who stands in front of the people being killed, he risks his life by lying and telling lies. voldemort betrayed him, and killed him for power, so he died. it just fits in my opinion. wormtail died a death of cowardness--he died by his own hand, he showed a bit of remorse and backed out, so his hand killed him. fred, who was the jokester, died by not paying attention because he was laughing. there are exeptions to this rule, i just really thought this one fit.

I felt that Snape did protect Harry many, many times and while it would have been best had he lived, if he had to die, he could have died in a better way, after telling Harry he was working for Dumbledore. While in that conversation he would have never revealed his love for Lily, that story could have been given to us in another way IMo.

He died without what would have been a fantastic meeting between him and Harry in the DH.:drool:

I liked Snapes Death, mainly because Harry just sat there and watched it being unable (or unwilling) to do anything about it. Voldemort seemed to be giving Snape a slightly painful but quick death. I guess that was Snape's reward for his faithful service, that was no longer required.

Slightly painful????!!!! :wow: :p

And it wasn't that quick either ... the poor guy bled to death! :sad:

I hate the idea that Harry would have been unwilling to help the dying Snape. :no:

I choose not to read it that way -- otherwise I would think very much less of Harry. I prefer to think of Harry just being too shellshocked to galvanise himself into action. He doesn't really know what to do ...

Even though he acted in time to save Arthur Weasley, also bitten badly by Nagini. :grumble: :p

Yes, I also felt robbed of a last meeting between Harry and Snape. I just wanted more then what we got. I felt a slightly bit let down by the Snape-plot in the last book, to be honest.

I hate the idea that Harry would have been unwilling to help the dying Snape. :no:

I choose not to read it that way -- otherwise I would think very much less of Harry. I prefer to think of Harry just being too shellshocked to galvanise himself into action. He doesn't really know what to do ...

As the scene is written, it seems to me that Harry recognizes Snape's injury as fatal. If that is the case, then the actions he takes vis-a-vis Snape are appropriate and humane. Harry can't save him, but he approaches Snape, and grants his final requests.

Even though he acted in time to save Arthur Weasley, also bitten badly by Nagini.

Not sure if you meant this seriously, but Snape died in less time than it took Harry to even get to McGonagall. I conclude Arthur's injuries were far less severe.

Slightly painful????!!!! :wow: :p

And it wasn't that quick either ... the poor guy bled to death! :sad:

I hate the idea that Harry would have been unwilling to help the dying Snape. :no:

I choose not to read it that way -- otherwise I would think very much less of Harry. I prefer to think of Harry just being too shellshocked to galvanise himself into action. He doesn't really know what to do ...

Even though he acted in time to save Arthur Weasley, also bitten badly by Nagini. :grumble: :p

At that time, Snape was still a death eater who had killed Dumbledore and Harry's own parents and Harry and none of the others in the Order except Dumbledore's portrait knew of this.

So I think it was still very humane and good of Harry to go towards the death eater he still thought Snape was.

Still Snape died practically a sitting duck IMO.:grumble::upset:

Of course, considering he was my favorite character, I didn't want him to die. But it was handled in a way that I can respect. It was beautiful--the way that we were treated to his story. It wasn't as if he died, and that was the end--we learned so much more. He was the very posterchild for 'Is he good or bad?' I personally loved it.

Severus Snape's death was very noble, and I think it was sort of neccisary to make Harry's understanding of what he did more dramatic and make it sink in more, he didn't have to die, but, what can you do?

Slightly painful????!!!! :wow: :p

And it wasn't that quick either ... the poor guy bled to death! :sad:

I hate the idea that Harry would have been unwilling to help the dying Snape. :no:

I choose not to read it that way -- otherwise I would think very much less of Harry. I prefer to think of Harry just being too shellshocked to galvanise himself into action. He doesn't really know what to do ...

Even though he acted in time to save Arthur Weasley, also bitten badly by Nagini. :grumble: :p

Well Harry knew Snape was headed for death near the beginning of the conversation - he wondered to himself if 'Snape sensed the danger'. I believe Harry was unwilling to do anything - because if it had been Ginny, you can bet he wouldn't have just stood there. But you have to remember that in Harry's eyes, Snape was just as bad as Voldemort at that point, he hated them equally. Harry believed Snape had killed Dumbledore, his parents, cut off George's ear, allowed the kids at Hogwarts to be tortured, fought poorly with McGonagall leaving Hogwarts and was helping Voldemort kill people at that time (including all of the wizard born Muggles at the Ministry and all of those being killed in the public at large like poor Dirk and Ted Tonks). I would imagine Harry felt whatever Snape got, he deserved. It would be as if Harry stood watching Bella about to die at Voldemort's hand, I doubt he would intercede because he knew Bella had chosen to be Voldemort's loyal follower and had assisted him in killing, torturing, maiming and otherwise devasting the wizard world. That is how Harry felt about Snape at that time, when Voldemort was on the verge of killing Snape and finally did.

I would agree that Snape's death was representative of his life, on many levels. I thought all of the character deaths were very much in character. :)

Severus Snape's death was very noble, and I think it was sort of neccisary to make Harry's understanding of what he did more dramatic and make it sink in more, he didn't have to die, but, what can you do?


I felt he need not have died at all, and if did have to die, it need not have been standing and providing Voldemort with a point blank target.:sad:

Actually I thought Prof. Snape's death was cleverly managed. JKR avoids Harry and Snape actually having a conversation in which Snape might or might not tell Harry which side he was really on, and perhaps be forced to prove it in some way. (If the meeting occured before Nagini was protected, Snape might well have stayed in role.) After Dumbledore's death Harry was out to get Snape, so another fight was probably avoided this way. By getting his deathbed statement, so to speak, Harry could both give it credence, and absorb it out of the fire of direct danger. He could get a much fuller history of Snape this way than if they had merely argued. And JKR could include things which were not really relevant to a potential duel, such as all the business regarding Petunia.

As for heroic deaths, it seems to me that this is an anti-war rather than a pro-war story, and so death and dying are not what is portrayed as heroic, but rather the living choices and actions of the characters. Death is presented more realisticly to undercut those who would teach the young to seek a heroic death in order to promote war. As a double agent, Snape's death was almost certainly to be less than glorious. Did he deserve better? Perhaps, but in war, people seldom get what they deserve. It was probably about what he expected.

Didn't you think Snape is NOT dead? May be, he survived?

Didn't you think Snape is NOT dead? May be, he survived?

No. Imo, he died. He was bleeding to death and his foot was involuntarily quivering, then his eyes met Harry's for a split second before they went blank. That was all to signify that he died. Nagini's bite was fatal and Snape yelled out just before he was bitten, understanding that the consequence would be death. Voledmort was also very interested in Snape being *really* dead and he knew Nagini would certainly kill Snape - it was urgent for that to be the case so that the power of the Elder Wand would pass to him. The last thing Voldemort would do would be to leave the room without ensuring himself Snape was well and truly dead. I am certain he went back to check and make sure, but he was likely 100% certain Nagini would kill Snape based on past experience (Nagini had killed many people for him before).

In my opinion, Snape understood his death was necessary, deserved and would serve a higher purpose than his remaining alive could. Thus he did not attempt to save himself, although he did put his hand to his throat to stave off the bleeding until Harry could get the memories. :)

Greetings again, everyone.

I agree that Snape was trying to hold off death for as long as possible to give himself one last chance of completing his mission, but he is definitely, definitely dead (alas!) The description of the change that seems to happen to him, the mention of the 'something' vanishing from the depths of his eyes, is quite clear - what we see here is literally the moment of the soul's departure. Some people have mentioned a similarity in the description to that of Dobby's death (another character who is dead, beyond any doubt.) The only room for doubt or speculation is, I think, in the case of anyone who happened to die unseen and whose body wasn't recovered.

Cue for speculation on the fate of Moody...

I actually liked the way Snape's death scene was written. Like many others, I would have been perfectly happy to see him in a duel - something he would have been brave enough to face, no problem. However, I also see the merit in the quiet, obscure death, a situation where we see him vulnerable and ready - at last - to share his memories. Actually, the fact that the hero of the story is present at the death should make us see it as dramatic and tragic as any fight scene.

In my opinion, Snape understood his death was necessary, deserved and would serve a higher purpose than his remaining alive could. Thus he did not attempt to save himself, although he did put his hand to his throat to stave off the bleeding until Harry could get the memories. :)

Surely he thought he was dying in vain, poor bloke. :upset:

Because he had not been able to get to Harry in time, to give him the crucial info. He didn't realise Harry was there, did he?

Which kind of begs the question of why he just stood there in front of Voldemort and allowed himself to be a sitting duck ...

It was because his Author needed him to die!!

Jetty, there are lots of very cool theories in fandom regarding how Snape could have survived. Fawkes comes to him ( he'd been incredibly loyal to Dumbledore, after all) ... he had antivenin and Blood Replenishing Potion hidden in his robes (he was a clever and resourceful wizard, after all!) ... ;)

posted by Pearl_Took
Because he had not been able to get to Harry in time, to give him the crucial info. He didn't realise Harry was there, did he?

Which kind of begs the question of why he just stood there in front of Voldemort and allowed himself to be a sitting duck ...

It was because his Author needed him to die!!

Sadly I think you are right. There must surely be other ways Snape could have handed over the information to Harry; Phineas's portrait that Hermione had with he could have passed on Dumbledore's message; but Jo intended Snape to die and die he did, without even lifting his wand to defend!:sad:

I kinda saw Snape's death coming. I figured that he would revolt againest Voldemort but it didnt really happen. Oh well, excellant book though.

i expected him to die so it didn't bother me, and the memories he provided harry we essential to understanding some things. the way he died was what i had a problem with, i had expected him to die in a battle with LV trying to protect harry. he didn't even put up a fight it was bogus. snape was a powerful wizard and could of given LV a bit of a fight it would have been a lot better this way

Frankly, I don't believe in Snape's death. This idea was caused by his remembrances. Personally, I hate Snape in book 7, but he's still my favourite characters in HP series. Why? I suppose his remembrances were faked. The Snape, which we saw in his remembrances, wasn't similar to real Snape at all. And this fact suggested me an idea, that Snape and Dumbledore were conducting a much more active game with Potter and other people, which were involved in that conflict. And if they did it, they definitely would predicted further developments, including probable Snape's death by Nagini's bite. And we may find some proofs of the fact, that Snape had survived:

1) Dumbledore knew, that Voldemort desired to possess the Elder Wand. And apparently he had to assume that Voldemort would try to do it by Snape's murdering. And he also had to guess the Dark Lord wouldn't use the Elder wand, but he would use his snake. So I'm very amazed if Snape hadn't taken, say, antodote for snake's bite.
2) I don't understand, how did Nagini manage to kill and even attack Snape, taking into account her physical condition.
3) Like somebody discussed above, Arthur and also Harry Potter (two times) survived after Nagini's bite, and Harry even didn't need medical help. But Snape died almost immediatly after the bite.
4) There was a too strange coincidence: Harry and friends were at the place of the murdering just in the time of the murdering.
5) Yes, Snape was in strange pose and was similar to a dying man. But where was it said that he had died? Snape fully could pretend to be killed.
6) Portrait. JKR may say that Snape had abandoned his post as many times as she likes, but I still don't believe in it :) I don't think he had abandoned his post, he had just gone away (may be temporary). So elimination of portrait means Snape's survival.
7) No information about his funeral, dead body etc.

And, sure, Snape didn't have to die at all. I don't believe he worked for Dumbledore just for love and remembrance about Lili. I don't believe in his strong love for Lili at all. And it's not an intense reason to pass on a 'good' side.

Those who did survive Nagini's bite weren't bitten in the neck, where they? Snape basically would have drowned in his own blood if the fangs punctured his wind pipe. He had to try very hard to survive long enough to give Harry his memories to help him out.

And Dumbledore didn't get everything right. He thought he'd given the elder wand to Snape when infact it was Draco's. Voldemort believeing Snape was the owner of the elder wand, murdered him himself. No doubt Dumbledore expected the death of Severus Tobias Snape but never in fact told him this in fear that Severus may not preform the deed- though I still think Snape never believed he would survive the battle. He had to avenge Lily's death.

As for Snape surviving- just because it's the wizarding world doesn't mean that a simple antidote can be taken and everything will be alright. It doesn't work like that. He died and I don't believe he would have liked to linger on much longer. As for him being out of character, that was not true. We just got to see more of his character, that's all.

In my opinion, Snape understood his death was necessary, deserved and would serve a higher purpose than his remaining alive could. Thus he did not attempt to save himself, although he did put his hand to his throat to stave off the bleeding until Harry could get the memories. :)

:wow: What on earth are you trying to say?? I'm sorry if I misunderstood you here you don't think he would have attempted to save himself if he could?



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What can make a man deserving of death?

I don't believe that anyone is saying that Snape was deserving of death, I think that Snape understood that there was a very good chance that his death would be necessary :)

I don't believe that anyone is saying that Snape was deserving of death

In my opinion, Snape understood his death was necessary, deserved and would serve a higher purpose than his remaining alive could.

This is why I asked. How did he deserve to die?

Surely wouldn't that be Snape's own possible interpretation or understanding? It's only a supposition.

I'm just interested to hear wickedwickedboy's elaboration on that quote.

What can make a man deserving of death?

This was totally my opinion of Snape's viewpoint. Snape understood that it was necessary, and would serve a higher purpose imo, because if he didn't believe that, I think he would have shouted out that he hadn't killed Dumbledore against the Elder Wizard's will, but that it had been planned and that he could therefore not be the master of the Elder Wand. Whether it would have worked or not is unknown, but Snape could have tried and he didn't (preferring to go with the plan of Voldemort believing himself to be the Master and invincible, when he would actually not be). This embodied what Sirius said: Somethings are worth dying for.

I believe Snape felt it was deserved because of his own words in POA. He said that if one arrogantly placed their trust in another (their life in another's hands), they were well served in facing the consequences, including death (POA, The Servant of Lord Voldemort, Brit. Ed, pg. 265). Snape had placed his trust Dumbledore and Dumbledore had betrayed that trust, by knowingly making it appear to Voldemort that Snape was the master of the Elder Wand, without telling Snape. Personally, I don't agree with this, but that is how Snape indicated he looked at it.

Surely he thought he was dying in vain, poor bloke. :upset:

Because he had not been able to get to Harry in time, to give him the crucial info. He didn't realise Harry was there, did he?

Imo, Snape didn't think he was dying in vain, even if he couldn't get Harry the memories. Snape knew that by saying nothing and allowing Voldemort to believe he was the master of the Elder Wand, Voldemort would be fooled into believing himself invincible by killing Snape. Voldemort would stop seeking the 'true master' of the Elder Wand and thus he could be killed once Harry (the horcrux) had died. Snape knew that Dumbledore's portrait could inform Harry that he was a horcrux if all else failed, imo.

I did not like Snape die for one. But most importantly I felt he should not have died. As I wrote in the LS threads, Jo, I feel made him the grey to Harry's white and Voldemort's black and redeemed him by his death, only because of her words that had Harry not been the BWL, Snape would not have bothered to turn.

But since he did, she made a hero out of him, but killed him for his redemption to be complete.

Snape was indeed a death eater who joined willingly and chose that way for himself. He turned because of Lily and went on to fight the death eaters for the rest of his life.

I did not want him to die because I felt he had already paid his dues time and again to the society he harmed for a while.

He worked for almost 16 years to undo the mistakes of perhaps four years or so of being a death eater. But sadly he died and he died without knowing if Harry would understand him through th memories he gave at the time of death.

Edit :: posted by wwb
Imo, Snape didn't think he was dying in vain, even if he couldn't get Harry the memories. Snape knew that by saying nothing and allowing Voldemort to believe he was the master of the Elder Wand, Voldemort would be fooled into believing himself invincible by killing Snape. Voldemort would stop seeking the 'true master' of the Elder Wand and thus he could be killed once Harry (the horcrux) had died. Snape knew that Dumbledore's portrait could inform Harry that he was a horcrux if all else failed, imo.

But Snape did not know about the Elder wand until he was almost at death's door, and once he saw Harry, I think he just let out the memories he wanted Harry to have and died. I really don't think he spared a thought to the Elder wand.

I believe Snape felt it was deserved because of his own words in POA. He said that if one arrogantly placed their trust in another (their life in another's hands), they were well served in facing the consequences, including death (POA, The Servant of Lord Voldemort, Brit. Ed, pg. 265). Snape had placed his trust Dumbledore and Dumbledore had betrayed that trust, by knowingly making it appear to Voldemort that Snape was the master of the Elder Wand, without telling Snape. Personally, I don't agree with this, but that is how Snape indicated he looked at it.

This is a fascinating theory, but I don't quite see how you arrive at it. Snape doesn't know about all that stuff about the Elder Wand, does he?!

I don't know what I think about the Dumbledore betraying Snape theory either. I would really love to believe that Albus didn't do this to Severus, that he deliberately planned for Snape not to be master of the Wand, thus sealing Snape's death sentence, otherwise, :td: I am just beginning to recover my opinion of Albus, and thinking he was capable of being so cold-blooded towards Severus would make my opinion plummet again. ;)

Imo, Snape didn't think he was dying in vain, even if he couldn't get Harry the memories. Snape knew that by saying nothing and allowing Voldemort to believe he was the master of the Elder Wand, Voldemort would be fooled into believing himself invincible by killing Snape. Voldemort would stop seeking the 'true master' of the Elder Wand and thus he could be killed once Harry (the horcrux) had died. Snape knew that Dumbledore's portrait could inform Harry that he was a horcrux if all else failed, imo.

Well, this all supposes that Snape knows all about the Elder Wand, and I don't think he did. Oh well, it's all supposition.

And the whole Elder Wand thing hurts my brain. :lol:

I would love to know what was going through poor Sev's mind the moments before Nagini struck. Waaaah. Rowling writes him as being, apparently, somewhat out of his depth. This really is unlike Snape, to be honest ...

But, while the fan theories about his possibly survival are lots of fun, I have no problem with her killing Snape off. I was not expecting Snape to survive Book 7, not in his incredibly dangerous role as double agent. Rowling made him the most tragic character in her wizarding saga, and in this reader's eyes the guy died a total hero. :tu:

But Snape did not know about the Elder wand until he was almost at death's door, and once he saw Harry, I think he just let out the memories he wanted Harry to have and died. I really don't think he spared a thought to the Elder wand.

I agree that it is altogether possible Snape believed Voldemort and thought he actually was the master of the Elder Wand when he died. It is possible Snape did not know any of the lore behind the wand and didn't realize that a previous master had to be overcome, not just killed. I don't think that was the case though because Snape wanted to get to Harry - he asked Voldemort to let him go to the boy several times. I think if Snape believed himself to be the master of the wand, he'd of tried to take it from Voldemort with a disarming or summoning spell and held the Dark Lord off so that he could escape and get to Harry. Seeing as he knew Voldemort was going to kill him, it wouldn't have mattered that the Dark Lord would know Snape was loyal to Dumbledore at that point. That Snape died without trying to say or do anything, leads me to believe that Snape had worked out the truth. Voldemort even said to Snape: "Perhaps you already know it? You are a clever man, after all, Severus." (He was speaking of Snape knowing he was the master of the Elder Wand and thus must die.)

This is a fascinating theory, but I don't quite see how you arrive at it. Snape doesn't know about all that stuff about the Elder Wand, does he?!

Well I don't believe Snape knew about it until Voldemort told him, just before killing him. But at that point he knew.

I don't know what I think about the Dumbledore betraying Snape theory either. I would really love to believe that Albus didn't do this to Severus, that he deliberately planned for Snape not to be master of the Wand, thus sealing Snape's death sentence, otherwise, :td: I am just beginning to recover my opinion of Albus, and thinking he was capable of being so cold-blooded towards Severus would make my opinion plummet again. ;)

I know what you mean and I agree it would be wrong of Dumbledore. Perhaps Dumbledore felt Snape would somehow survive, but I don't see how he could have thought that. Dumbledore knew Voldemort would seek the Elder Wand; he knew he was the last master; and he knew Voldemort would believe Snape had killed him and was the new master - all of which happened. I think Snape worked that out, he was very intelligent. The only thing Snape could not be sure of was that Dumbledore knew Voldemort would seek out the Elder Wand - but Snape was wise enough to know that the intelligent Dumbledore would have at least considered the possibility - especially following the graveyard fiasco (which Voldemort recounted to Snape in his speech before killing him - but Snape likely already knew how Harry had survived the graveyard because he was an Order member and they all knew).

Thus I don't think Snape died believing Voldemort had outwitted Dumbledore; I think he died having worked out the truth.


And the whole Elder Wand thing hurts my brain. :lol:

Mine too. :lol:

Closed, pending version 2.