Shouldn't Voldemort have become a ghost?

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Kaepora
July 24th, 2007, 11:03 am
According to Nearly Headless Nick in OotP, people who fear death remain attached to the earth after they die, and become ghosts.

Voldemort feared death like no other. Shouldn't he have become a ghost?

ivyagogo
July 24th, 2007, 11:16 am
I always thought that if he died that yes, he would become a ghost. Or, maybe you can't once you've split your soul.

ellana
July 24th, 2007, 11:17 am
There wasn't enough of him left to become a ghost?

Ressurected
July 24th, 2007, 11:22 am
Didn't Sir Nick say that you had to 'leave an imprint of your soul' or something on the earth?

But Voldemort probably thought that with the horcruxes, there would be no way he could die (seeing as he thought no-one else knew about them anyway), so he wouldn't bother becoming a ghost. Anyway, for Voldemort, what good would being a ghost be unless he was a poltergiest, he couldnt' torment or kill people, the most he could do was make them feel as though they had walked through a cold shower.

TheAndy
July 24th, 2007, 11:27 am
I don't think Voldemort had anough of his soul left to become a ghost.

panda81
July 24th, 2007, 12:08 pm
Maybe it takes time to become a ghost. Maybe you go to an inbetween place and after taking in the fact that you are dead, either moving on or going back. Besides, I don't know if Voldy's soul had enough left in it to leave an imprint.

Liselle
July 24th, 2007, 12:10 pm
There wasn't enough of him left to become a ghost?


I couldn't have put that better myself to be honest. I think once Voldemort saw that his horcruxes had been deystroyed also he came to the conclusion that his death was inevitable.

SPARTAN
July 24th, 2007, 12:17 pm
I don't think there was enough of his soul left to leave a big enough imprint on the earth.

In the books they say that the souls just leaves imprints of themselves but still pass on. So nearly headless nicks soul is really in heaven (or whrever.)

LoonyMagic
July 24th, 2007, 12:21 pm
I agree with what everyone else has said.

Voldemort had destroyed his soul in such a way that he was immortal (of course until Harry destroyed the Horcruxes), I think a price to pay for that would be that his soul was beyond repair and he could not become a ghost.

gertiekeddle
July 24th, 2007, 1:10 pm
I think he couldn't become one due to his already destroyed soul.

Diotima
July 24th, 2007, 1:27 pm
Whoa. WHOA! WHOA! (Yeah, I'm shouting!)

You people just smacked me on the head with this business about Voldy having no soul!

It hadn't dawned on me until this thread, that Voldemort, who feared death maybe more than anyone else, has become more completely dead than anyone else. Even those who suffered the Kiss, I presume, still have their souls alive, albeit tortured.

But Voldemort is completely obliterated. The man who went further down the road to immortality than anyone else became the one to go further into nonexistence than anyone else.

WHOA. They call that dramatic irony, do they not? It calls the Oedipus story to mind: by working so hard to prevent it, he made it come about. That's what I love about these books: the more you think about them, the better they are! And they're so complex that one (except JK) can't even grasp at the complexities without discussion, without the help of other people pointing things out. Isn't that the difference between good and great literature?

I'm really grateful for these boards. They've helped me to see so many facets that I'd have missed on my own.

vampiricduck
July 24th, 2007, 1:28 pm
There was only one eighth of his soul left by the time he died, by his own hand, so maybe he didn't get the choice, and if he did, there wasn't enough of his soul left to make him a ghost.

lewis8604
July 24th, 2007, 1:32 pm
Whoa. WHOA! WHOA! (Yeah, I'm shouting!)

You people just smacked me on the head with this business about Voldy having no soul!

It hadn't dawned on me until this thread, that Voldemort, who feared death maybe more than anyone else, has become more completely dead than anyone else. Even those who suffered the Kiss, I presume, still have their souls alive, albeit tortured.

But Voldemort is completely obliterated. The man who went further down the road to immortality than anyone else became the one to go further into nonexistence than anyone else.

WHOA. They call that dramatic irony, do they not? It calls the Oedipus story to mind: by working so hard to prevent it, he made it come about. That's what I love about these books: the more you think about them, the better they are! And they're so complex that one (except JK) can't even grasp at the complexities without discussion, without the help of other people pointing things out. Isn't that the difference between good and great literature?

I'm really grateful for these boards. They've helped me to see so many facets that I'd have missed on my own.

well said well said

Meherio
July 24th, 2007, 1:35 pm
Well ... Voldemort was never sad, was he? I always imagined ghosts to be unsatisfied or sad or miserable ... but Voldemort was just so surprised that I don't think he even realised that he WAS dying.

And, there probably wasn't enough soul left. He'd have to be a really transparent ghost.

vampiricduck
July 24th, 2007, 1:41 pm
Well ... Voldemort was never sad, was he? I always imagined ghosts to be unsatisfied or sad or miserable ...

I don't think he was able to feel sad or miserable. He defeated emotions, all excpet anger, at a young age.

FawkesLament786
July 24th, 2007, 1:46 pm
maybe he is 1/8th of a ghost floating around?

_fairy_dust_
July 24th, 2007, 1:48 pm
I thought that Voldemort said to his Death Eaters that he was less than a ghost... I think he said that anyway... So if he was less than a ghost UNLESS he felt a deep regret for the things he had done which I'm sure he didn't then he couldn't have become himself again... And anyway, his horcruxes were destroyed and all he was was a seventh of a soul... I think a ghost IS a soul so.. I think you can only become a ghost if you have a whole soul and its not been ripped to seven little pieces that are past repair... :D

If that made any sense at all XD

leenielou
July 24th, 2007, 1:51 pm
I agree that there wasn't enough left of him to become a ghost. A ghost is the imprint of a departed soul, and by the end Voldemort had destroyed the last piece of his soul with his own curse. Therefore there just wasn't anything to become a ghost with, at all.

silverwhisper
July 24th, 2007, 1:54 pm
WHOA. They call that dramatic irony, do they not? It calls the Oedipus story to mind: by working so hard to prevent it, he made it come about. That's what I love about these books: the more you think about them, the better they are! And they're so complex that one (except JK) can't even grasp at the complexities without discussion, without the help of other people pointing things out. Isn't that the difference between good and great literature?



Actually my dear Diotima,that's not what they call dramatic irony...Irony maybe,but not dramatic irony,as dramatic irony is a term used in theatrical art to define the situation in which the tragic hero is,and he/she doesn't know it,while the audience does...:D

Also,I think that it has to be taken into account that within each and every one of the horcruxes,there was a "memory"...Idk why though...:D

cgold
July 24th, 2007, 1:57 pm
This was something I was worried about as the I waited for the final book. I'd almost convinced myself that Voldemort was not going to die but live out his life as a soulless human being and that dementors would suck out his soul. However, I was thinking that would be a crappy ending because Voldemort fears death the most so I definitely wanted him to die and for a minute when Harry was telling him to show remorse I wondered if he'd have a moment. I should say that Voldemort's soul has been ripped to shreds so he doesn't have the same type of strength as a person with a whole soul. Furthermore, when he drank the unicorn's blood he had a cursed and half life so that as well weakened any chance he had of imprinting himself on the mortal world. I should say that JK has left this open, in my opinion, because she had Harry touch his scar and think that it hasn't bothered him for 19 years and that all was well. Maybe in the back of Harry's mind he believes that Voldemort can come back.

Cheers :tu:

tiggergirl0325
July 24th, 2007, 1:57 pm
I think she showed why at Harry's "King's Cross". Voldemort's soul was a less than human writhing infantile thing. He didn't have the ability to make the choice to stay because his soul was so incredibly damaged.

Diotima
July 24th, 2007, 2:25 pm
Actually my dear Diotima,that's not what they call dramatic irony...Irony maybe,but not dramatic irony,as dramatic irony is a term used in theatrical art to define the situation in which the tragic hero is,and he/she doesn't know it,while the audience does...:D


Well, then. Wasn't it clever of me to phrase it as a question? To quote a certain gecko I know, "that way, no one ends up looking foolish."
And yeah, now that's I've bothered to check my terms, it is irony.

espada
July 24th, 2007, 2:32 pm
His soul was too tarnished to leave an imprint on the living world, even if he did become a complete ghost, the Ministry will catch him anyways, if not the Ministry, he will be humiliated all day long by everyone in the world, by becoming a ghost he will be powerless, I think he actually would rather die than be overpowered by a bunch of first years.

Murzim
July 24th, 2007, 2:39 pm
I don't think Voldemort would choose to leave a feeble, powerless imprint on the earth. What good would it do him? The ghosts as far as I know can't rule the wizards and that's all he ever wanted to live for, to rule!

I don't like the Nazi parallels too much myself, but Hitler comitted suicide rather than live defeated.

jlpforpotter
July 24th, 2007, 2:41 pm
Didn't Nearly Headless Nick mention that you needed to make a conscious decision to become a ghost? Why would Voldemort have given any thought to dying? He never thought he would have been defeated! He didn't even have any idea that his Horcruxes had been destroyed! Voldemort was far too arrogant to have made back up plans like becoming a ghost.

the_last_hallow
July 24th, 2007, 2:42 pm
According to Nearly Headless Nick in OotP, people who fear death remain attached to the earth after they die, and become ghosts.

Voldemort feared death like no other. Shouldn't he have become a ghost?

It may be because of the soul splitting, but who knows, he may have become a ghost, we don't know because it wasn't mentioned. I think we will only know for sure when JK decides to publish an encyclopedia.

ForeverMonday
July 24th, 2007, 2:47 pm
There was only one eighth of his soul left by the time he died, by his own hand, so maybe he didn't get the choice, and if he did, there wasn't enough of his soul left to make him a ghost.
I counted 1/256th unless he lost a bit of sould every time he killed. I got the impression that his soul split in two every time he made a horcrux, so the first horcrux would have half his soul, the second, half of what was left, that is, a quarter, and so on. Would that make the first horcrux more powerful? Am I completely wrong? Does this deserve a different thread entirely?

dumbledoreshous
July 24th, 2007, 2:51 pm
I think JK forgot about this :p

FawkesLament786
July 24th, 2007, 3:02 pm
I should say that JK has left this open, in my opinion, because she had Harry touch his scar and think that it hasn't bothered him for 19 years and that all was well. Maybe in the back of Harry's mind he believes that Voldemort can come back.



Would this mean Albus Potter would have to battle Voldemort? x.x

jasper
July 24th, 2007, 3:10 pm
Maybe he did. He could have turned out a tiny, naked baby ghost screaching around at the office tower or whatever it was that got built over the site of the orphanage.

I counted 1/256th unless he lost a bit of sould every time he killed. I got the impression that his soul split in two every time he made a horcrux, so the first horcrux would have half his soul, the second, half of what was left, that is, a quarter, and so on. Would that make the first horcrux more powerful? Am I completely wrong? Does this deserve a different thread entirely?

;) JKR was never that good at maths! :D

Jaztastic
July 24th, 2007, 3:36 pm
I also think that the baby-like creature he saw is a representation of what is left of his soul, therefore he is too weak to become a ghost or move on, he is stuck there forever, worse than dying.

jasper
July 24th, 2007, 3:41 pm
I also think that the baby-like creature he saw is a representation of what is left of his soul, therefore he is too weak to become a ghost or move on, he is stuck there forever, worse than dying.

Good call! Maybe he can't even die - without that remorse that Harry suggests.

GodricHollow
July 24th, 2007, 3:44 pm
You know that thing that's in Kings Cross (or the place that looks like Kings Cross at least)? I reckon that's Voldemort. I reckon, under normal circumstances, those that "go back" become ghosts, and those that "go on" don't. Obviously, Voldemort can't become a ghost because he's not got any soul to leave an imprint of, but he's scared to go on because he's scared of dying.

jordmundt6
July 24th, 2007, 4:01 pm
I dunno. We've known since the duel in the Little Hangleton graveyard from GoF (or maybe since that memorable speech) that Voldemort didn't have enough of his soul left to be a ghost. And the less than infant that was left whimpering in the waystation was the sliver of his soul attached to Harry. He, it, whatever--was too small or unformed, or what-have-you to articulate anything but isolation and pain--it didn't have enough self left to move on or even think for him...it...self so there was no prospect of moving on--just an eternity of that isolation. And yeah--that's much worse than death, it's even worse than the void of no afterlife would be.

No question, Voldemort DOES die, but he couldn't move on or retain sense of self, if he didn't feel the remorse that Harry, mockingly suggested--or, rather, demanded from him (or the piece of him in his new body does). Although that does bring up a question--Even Nagini had to be killed with Gryffindor's blade (something imbued with basilisk poison). Is a fully functioning AK from the Elder Wand enough to destroy a Horcrux--any Horcrux? Is it possible that even before the Wand realized that Harry was its true master, the sliver of Voldemort's soul that was acting like a parasite actually saved Harry's life? Or would an AK work for both the accidental Horcrux and the sliver in Voldemort's body because those soul slivers did not have the extra enchantments binding them to their containers?:huh:

By the way, while we're discussing the Elder Wand, that whole Draco was the master of the wand thing was pretty darn thin. That didn't seem like a duel, but then again, Dumbledore wanted to make sure that Draco didn't damage his soul, so it's possible--just possible that he was really trying to defend himself so that Draco wouldn't be in the position to be tempted to commit murder. Now, a more important question--since everybody and all their children will know that Harry Potter is the new master of the Elder Wand and that it actually exists (because Harry shouted it at Voldemort when defeating him and--sort of trying to save him), what's Harry supposed to do to ensure the breaking of the Wand's power after he dies? Live his entire life at 12 Grimmauld Place, in seclusion and avoid challenging or getting challenged by anyone? That obviously didn't happen. I guess we'll just have to Harry never loses a magical duel--or that whoever beats him doesn't think to break into Dumbledore's very obvious grave.

dantares
July 24th, 2007, 4:04 pm
I always wonder why Voldie did not become a ghost? I thought people who are afraid to move on will stay on as ghosts? So since he is so afraid of death, why did he move on?

Saiorri
July 24th, 2007, 5:48 pm
I think LV mutilated his body so much that he didn't have enough life left to become a ghost. And can you imagine a LV ghost floating around somewhere? Whaaaaaaaat? I would think his ghost surpasses the Bloody Baron.

xambruzzix42
July 24th, 2007, 6:11 pm
well, if voldy had become a ghost, it's not like he'd do much harm to anyone. ghosts never seem to exert and magical power really, except to cause discomfort to any living being who walks through them. but i guess if he did become a ghost, he'd probably haunt the life out of harry.

no, i agree with him not having enough soul in him to become a ghost. those horcruxes killed him.

Rhea7
July 24th, 2007, 6:16 pm
I think you need a full soul. Or maybe from his first oppertunity to die, and he dint' take it, he decided to remain earthbound becasue of his Hrocruxes, he was denied the oppertunity of becoming a ghost this time.

thru_n_thru
July 24th, 2007, 6:27 pm
I think she showed why at Harry's "King's Cross". Voldemort's soul was a less than human writhing infantile thing. He didn't have the ability to make the choice to stay because his soul was so incredibly damaged.

My thoughts exactly. Choice was a huge theme in the series... Voldemort chose to split his soul, which in turn made it impossible for each of those mutilated soul pieces to choose to become a ghost. Imagine 8 ugly little less-than-human raw writhing baby things floating around as ghosts?!

Melonhead
July 24th, 2007, 8:02 pm
I agree that the baby in kings cross was the part of LVs soul that got killed. I think that if some metaphorical entity came along and 'asked' if he wanted to go on then a baby is not likely to be able to answer.
It may be that the other horcruxes 'souls' were different however as Harry was the last Horcrux then they should have the same amount of soul, and presumably would be the same.

I work it out as being:
1. Diary= 1/2
2. Ring= 1/4
3. Locket= 1/8
4. Cup= 1/16
5. Diadem= 1/32
6. Harry= 1/64
7. Nagini= 1/128
8. LV= 1/128

With LV aged 72 (according to the lexicon) when he died 1/128 of his age would be about 7 months old if that is how it is worked out then a 7month old is unlikely to be able to make such a decision.

dobbysfriend
July 25th, 2007, 3:03 am
I agree that the baby in kings cross was the part of LVs soul that got killed. I think that if some metaphorical entity came along and 'asked' if he wanted to go on then a baby is not likely to be able to answer.
It may be that the other horcruxes 'souls' were different however as Harry was the last Horcrux then they should have the same amount of soul, and presumably would be the same.

I work it out as being:
1. Diary= 1/2
2. Ring= 1/4
3. Locket= 1/8
4. Cup= 1/16
5. Diadem= 1/32
6. Nagini= 1/64
7. Harry= 1/128
8. LV= 1/128

With LV aged 72 (according to the lexicon) when he died 1/128 of his age would be about 7 months old if that is how it is worked out then a 7month old is unlikely to be able to make such a decision.


I believe that Harry was # 6 and Nagini was # 7, otherwise its a great idea.

persian85033
July 25th, 2007, 3:26 am
Voldemort doesn't have a soul, not really. Only part of a soul, that's it. There's not enough of him to become a ghost, I guess. Although i still didn't really understand his obsession over death. It's just...death. Everyone's going to die, and it's not so horrible. Everyone does. If no one ever did, before you know it, they'd be bored of living, and the same routines. You wouldn't even find eating a pleasure, cause you've ate everything before, blah blah blah.

Harrysahorcrux
July 26th, 2007, 2:02 pm
i dont think there was enough of his soul left

Well_Wisher
July 26th, 2007, 2:06 pm
Yep, like other's have said- there wasn't enough of his soul left to become a ghost.

witchsmart
July 26th, 2007, 2:07 pm
I agree with everyone here that Voldemort didn't have much of a soul left to leave an imprint on the earth as a ghost. Or maybe, this is probably in another thread somewhere but I haven't seen it yet, he hasn't decided whether to move on or remain as a ghost yet. I'd have to check out a thread on that baby thing in "King's Cross" to understand it fully.

Chosenoneknux
July 26th, 2007, 2:09 pm
I don't think Voldemort had anough of his soul left to become a ghost.

And it was so tainted and torn asunder, I doubt he could anchor himself to the living realm anymore.

canismajoris
July 26th, 2007, 2:17 pm
There was only one eighth of his soul left by the time he died, by his own hand, so maybe he didn't get the choice, and if he did, there wasn't enough of his soul left to make him a ghost.

We have no way of knowing that an eighth of his soul remained. It could have been considerably less than that.

For example, the first Horcrux could contain half of his soul, the second Horcrux a quarter, the third an eighth, and so on. There's no direct evidence of this, because Voldemort seems to have a powerful link with Harry and with Nagini, and they were the last Horcruxes to be made--if through the iterations of splitting the soul equally in half a very tiny portion was invested in Harry and Nagini, it seems as though Voldemort should have felt a much stronger connection to his inanimate Horcruxes, which we know he did not. In his panic Voldemort even reasons that he never felt the destruction of the diary because he did not have a body at the time, and only later is it confirmed that either the nature of the magic or the condition of his soul prevented this.

In other words, there was a fragment remaining within his body that was sufficient to link him with Harry and Nagini, but all three of those portions may have been extremely small compared to the size of the whole original soul. And more importantly, Harry and the Snake were living beings with minds and bodies of their own, so that may be the factor upon which a magical link is predicated. If it is the case that too little of his soul remained, it could explain why there is no ghost. The pathetic creature that Harry saw after his near-death could be all that remains of Voldemort's soul, while Harry's and Dumbledore's were fully intact, and they were both fully realized within the vision.

MC2456
July 26th, 2007, 2:46 pm
Maybe he's gone to HELL! BURN VOLDY BURN!!!!! Lol, seriously, I have no idea...

bryanweasley
July 26th, 2007, 2:52 pm
We have no way of knowing that an eighth of his soul remained. It could have been considerably less than that.

For example, the first Horcrux could contain half of his soul, the second Horcrux a quarter, the third an eighth, and so on. There's no direct evidence of this, because Voldemort seems to have a powerful link with Harry and with Nagini, and they were the last Horcruxes to be made--if through the iterations of splitting the soul equally in half a very tiny portion was invested in Harry and Nagini, it seems as though Voldemort should have felt a much stronger connection to his inanimate Horcruxes, which we know he did not. In his panic Voldemort even reasons that he never felt the destruction of the diary because he did not have a body at the time, and only later is it confirmed that either the nature of the magic or the condition of his soul prevented this.

In other words, there was a fragment remaining within his body that was sufficient to link him with Harry and Nagini, but all three of those portions may have been extremely small compared to the size of the whole original soul. And more importantly, Harry and the Snake were living beings with minds and bodies of their own, so that may be the factor upon which a magical link is predicated. If it is the case that too little of his soul remained, it could explain why there is no ghost. The pathetic creature that Harry saw after his near-death could be all that remains of Voldemort's soul, while Harry's and Dumbledore's were fully intact, and they were both fully realized within the vision.

Voldemort only felt the connection when Harry was killed because he was the one who killed a piece of himself when he killed Harry. There is nothing in the book to suggest he felt anything when Neville killed Nagini.

canismajoris
July 26th, 2007, 2:56 pm
Voldemort only felt the connection when Harry was killed because he was the one who killed a piece of himself when he killed Harry. There is nothing in the book to suggest he felt anything when Neville killed Nagini.

But Voldemort assumed he had killed Harry only, and he didn't have the slightest idea that he had destroyed a Horcrux himself. What precisely the implications of this are I don't know, but it seems to support the idea that Voldemort had no active connections to the Horcruxes themselves, only that his remaining soul had connections to Harry and Nagini through the Horcruxes--since they were all containers of a relatively similar nature, that is the only reason the connections persisted on a conscious level. Otherwise, would have known the Horcrux was gone and Harry was alive. As it happened, he was only unaware of Harry's status because he had destroyed the Horcrux in attempting to kill Harry, thereby severing his link to Harry, but he didn't feel the destruction of the Horcrux itself.

If Harry's vision reflected reality, there simply wasn't enough of Voldemort's soul to make possible the sensation of losing another small part--apparently actually separating the soul from its original container leaves no connection to the possessor of the soul, only to the remaining portion of soul within that person. This is why despite having lost his body, Voldemort remained alive.

We know that at least one ghost was a murderer, as it is revealed that the Bloody Baron killed the Grey Lady. However, he evidently felt remorse and ran himself through with his own sword, which, according to Hermione, would heal his soul.

What does all this mean? That despite his soul's continuing existence on earth, it was no longer of him, but merely an anchor that allowed him to remain on earth--presumably at the cost of existing in some form after death.

tigger101023
July 26th, 2007, 3:04 pm
I tend to agree that there was not enough soul left to become a ghost. I don't think we know for certain that all people who are unsure of leaving the earth become ghosts. We know that all ghosts have that in common, but we don't know that it always happens. Maybe sometimes you want to be a ghost and aren't ready to move on and you do anyway?

Omeganian
July 26th, 2007, 3:08 pm
Well, look at Sauron. He invested a lot of his power into the One Ring, and when it was destroyed, he didn't retain enough power to reappear as any kind of a wraith or a ghost. Voldemort invested a much larger portion of himself into the Horcruxes, so it is likely that after they and his body were destroyed, the remains were likewise insufficient for the purpose.

lunarsphere
July 26th, 2007, 3:58 pm
Have you forgotten that he established seven Horcruxes?

Sauron invested most of his cosmic power, perhaps better called psychic power in the Ring. When the Ring was gone he didn't have enough psychic power left to become manifest again.

Voldemort invested most of his soul in the Horcruxes. Becoming a ghost requires a complete essence.

Chris
July 26th, 2007, 4:14 pm
I agree with the sentiment that LV didn't have enough of a soul left to become a ghost. The tattered fragments that were killed prior to and during the final battle made it so that LV didn't have much humanity left when he killed himself, with Harry's help.
This is probably a good thing, because ghostyvold would be a little scary. He and the Bloody Baron would probably make it so that no one would ever want to join Slytherin again.

silver ink pot
July 26th, 2007, 4:18 pm
I agree with everyone who has said that his soul was too fragmented to become a ghost.

A ghost is someone who is afraid to "go on," as Dumbledore said. They are trapped in the material world, but their soul is still intact, as I understand it.

Voldemorts8thHorcrux
July 26th, 2007, 4:57 pm
There are two explanations for this:

There wasn't enough in him, enough human, for him to become ghost.

His soul was too ripped and damaged to become a ghost.

Besides, he probably saw becoming a ghost still being dead. But I'm pretty sure if he had a choice, he would've become one, afterall, he feared death above all else, that is the only reason I think death is a worthy punishment for him. However, I am imagining seven or eight voldemort's in wizard heaven or hell, they must be getting along nicely with grindelwald. I wasn't clear on destroying horcruxes though, does the soul become destroyed, or does it "die" and move on?

Maj
July 26th, 2007, 5:01 pm
Maybe there was another Horcrux that they missed...

MrsJoelMadden
July 26th, 2007, 5:17 pm
maybe he is 1/8th of a ghost floating around?

Maybe JKR will write a future book in the HP world about someone coming in contact with some ghostly fingers and toes that turns out to be all that's left of LV. :lol:

Voldemorts8thHorcrux
July 26th, 2007, 5:22 pm
That's funny, but I think that if there was a LV ghost, it would be more of like 8 LV ghosts in Hogwarts. Maybe they're more transparent than normal ghosts. I would love to see 8 LV ghosts bickering and floating around.

Melonhead
July 26th, 2007, 5:53 pm
I believe that Harry was # 6 and Nagini was # 7, otherwise its a great idea.

My bad. Hmm that means that the baby there would be 14 months old, I'm not too good on babys and what they can do by each age, did that description sound like a 14 month old?

thru_n_thru
July 26th, 2007, 6:07 pm
I think that if there was a LV ghost, it would be more of like 8 LV ghosts in Hogwarts. Maybe they're more transparent than normal ghosts. I would love to see 8 LV ghosts bickering and floating around.I think if there were 8 "Voldemort" ghosts, they'd be 8 sickly, flayed, raw, moaning, flopping, helpless baby thingies, not 8 full Voldemorts... yuck! lol

Voldemorts8thHorcrux
July 26th, 2007, 7:31 pm
I'm not going to be familiar with babies until i have one, since my mom doesn't want a second kid.

IgoRetla
July 26th, 2007, 7:36 pm
How do you know that he didn't?

flowerchild
July 26th, 2007, 7:36 pm
Maybe he couldn't because his soul was praticaly destroyed, he was hardly human anymore. I mean, he had ripped his soul into so many pieces and put them in horcruxes-which were subsequently destroyed by his enemies- and maybe you can only become a ghost if your soul is whole.

Voldemorts8thHorcrux
July 26th, 2007, 7:40 pm
Well, we don't know that he's a ghost, but if he did become one, I think he would go to Hogwarts, his first home. I mean, you can't get hurt when becoming a ghost.

Whatever999
July 26th, 2007, 7:40 pm
No, Snape clearly said that you have to leave an impression of yourself on Earth so that your ghost could exist where you once lived. He apparently did not leave an impression of himself on Earth.

crookshanks16
July 26th, 2007, 7:42 pm
Well, isn't a ghost an imprint of your soul. There was a tiny, tiny amount of Voldemort's soul left and that's probably not enough to make an imprint of.

canismajoris
July 26th, 2007, 9:05 pm
How do you know that he didn't?

It is somewhat unknowable whether he became a ghost or not, but everything we know so far about souls and ghosts points to Voldemort just being dead. Plus, if he is a ghost, where is he? Ghosts seem to be faithful imprints of their moments of death, so where and how would you imagine Voldemort to be?

Omeganian
July 26th, 2007, 9:14 pm
Quoting Gandalf about Sauron (sorry), "a mere spirit of malice that gnaws itself in the shadows, but cannot again grow or take shape."

Voldemorts8thHorcrux
July 26th, 2007, 10:03 pm
No, Snape clearly said that you have to leave an impression of yourself on Earth so that your ghost could exist where you once lived. He apparently did not leave an impression of himself on Earth.

What kind of impression? Since he obviously has impressions of himself, it's impossible not to. if you want physical impressions, wand. If you want photographs, i'm sure there would be one somewhere in the orphanage or someone took a photo in hogwarts. he obviously left a impression in the minds of many. If anywhere, he would stay at hogwarts.

Spirit
July 27th, 2007, 12:47 am
Like others have said, I don't think that Voldemort could become a ghost because of the fact that he split his soul. I think that a person's soul has to be fully intact when the person dies to get the choice of becoming a ghost. Or at least, mostly intact. Voldemort holds the record for being the person with the most split soul pieces. Voldemort and his 7 other soul pieces never had a chance.

Voldemorts8thHorcrux
July 27th, 2007, 1:06 am
good point, but his largest portion of his soul might have survived

witchsmart
July 27th, 2007, 3:08 am
Although I agree that Voldemort didn't have enough soul left to "imprint the earth" I think that if he did managed to return as a ghost, he might be different than the ghosts that we've seen at Hogwarts. When AK backfired the first time, and he still had his backup horcruxes, he was "less than the meanest ghost". Now he has nothing, but maybe he became less than less than the meanest ghost. Maybe it's only his "essence" that remains.

Lillbet
July 27th, 2007, 3:16 am
Didn't Sir Nick say that you had to 'leave an imprint of your soul' or something on the earth?

I believe that's the case:

"A ghost is the imprint of a soul which remains on our (living) side of the veil for some reason or another. The ghost retains all of the memories and emotions of the former individual but has no ability to handle or manipulate the physical objects of this world. Nearly Headless Nick describes it thus:

"Wizards can leave an imprint of themselves upon the earth, to walk palely where their living selves once trod ... I was afraid of death. I chose to remain behind. I sometimes wonder whether I oughtn't have ... Well, that is neither here nor there ... In fact, I am neither here nor there..." (OP38)

And from no less an authority than Snape "A ghost ... is the imprint of a departed soul left upon the earth...."

Better yet:

"A ghost, as I trust that you are all aware by now, is the imprint of a departed soul left upon the earth... and of course, as Potter so wisely tells us, transparent."
"Well, what Harry said is the most useful if we're trying to tell them apart!" said Ron. "When we come face-to-face with one down a dark alley, we're going to be having a shufti to see if it's solid, aren't we, we're not going to be asking, 'Excuse me, are you the imprint of a departed soul?'" (HBP 460 US ED)

As we know, Voldemort ain't got no soul left. Therefore... no ghost :D

HermyRonnie
July 27th, 2007, 4:13 am
Ah, beautiful poetic justice. Voldermort who feared death and chased immortality - now deader than anyone has ever been in the history of the wizarding world :D

NoNEWTS
July 28th, 2007, 12:30 am
Maybe it takes time to become a ghost. Maybe you go to an inbetween place and after taking in the fact that you are dead, either moving on or going back. Besides, I don't know if Voldy's soul had enough left in it to leave an imprint.

Good one. I was undecided between Voldemort not having enough soul and not wanting to make the effort ahead of time to become a ghost, figuring he wouldn't lose. So I'll go with your idea that he's in limbo.

padfootandme
July 28th, 2007, 2:10 am
I definately think that Voldemort would be considering being a ghost because he is scared of death. But then again, being a ghost would drive him crazy... he couldn't be more powerless!

Kidney Pie
July 28th, 2007, 2:34 am
Harry sees voldemort as a flayed baby, helpless and unable to move forward or backwards. So he can't become a ghost, he is too helpless and he split his soul too many times to go back to be a ghost, and he also can't go forward. He is stuck in limbo and nothingness forever. Harry saw limbo as king's cross, a sort of place where you can get on a train and move on to death or get on one to go back to life. When Harry first entered this Limbo place, there was nothingness, and it all sort of formed around him. I am not sure that Voldemort saw the same thing as Harry. Harry and Voldemort were both in Limbo, but it could be that they weren't seeing the same thing, even if they did see one another.

Anyway, Harry had a whole and untarnished soul and he had a choice to move on. Voldemort, however probably didn't see the place as King's Cross. He probably saw darkness or who knows what.

Anyway, I see him being stuck in darkness, helpless and crying. If anyone else were to go into Limbo, maybe they could carry him on to death, but we don't know. Dumbledore said nothing could be done for him. So probably if anyone else went to Limbo, they would either not see Voldemort, or they'd be repulsed by him.

It could be that someone might choose to take him with them into the land of the dead at last, but probably they'd not even know what there were looking at.

eatus_Benevol1
July 28th, 2007, 2:58 am
OK - no other wizard had ever split his soul more than once and Valdy did it 7 times....so he can take the credit for putting not 1 but 7 nails in his coffin of insuring he would not exist anymore in any way after his own Avada Kadavra curse finished him off in the final battle against Harry.

witchsmart
July 28th, 2007, 2:27 pm
Kidney_Pie:
Harry sees voldemort as a flayed baby, helpless and unable to move forward or backwards. So he can't become a ghost, he is too helpless and he split his soul too many times to go back to be a ghost, and he also can't go forward. He is stuck in limbo and nothingness forever.

Ahhh, now it makes sense!

Lillbet:
"A ghost is the imprint of a soul which remains on our (living) side of the veil for some reason or another. The ghost retains all of the memories and emotions of the former individual but has no ability to handle or manipulate the physical objects of this world.

I've been wondering this for a while. Nick Headless Nick and the other ghosts can pick up solid objects, but Peeves can. What exactly is the difference between a poltergeist and a ghost? I remember Nick talking to the Fat Friar about him, and saying that he's not even a ghost. Then what is he?

LeanneJO
July 28th, 2007, 2:31 pm
A potergeist, he didn't used to be a person, like ghosts were, he was always that kind of being.

witchsmart
July 28th, 2007, 2:37 pm
LeanneJO:
A potergeist, he didn't used to be a person, like ghosts were, he was always that kind of being.

Oh okay. Thanks.

Lady_yui
July 28th, 2007, 7:11 pm
According to Nearly Headless Nick in OotP, people who fear death remain attached to the earth after they die, and become ghosts.

Voldemort feared death like no other. Shouldn't he have become a ghost?

Ghosts are the imprint of the departed soul.He didn`t had any soul left anymore to become a ghost

AptPupil
July 28th, 2007, 9:01 pm
He could have become a ghost. There's nothing to say that he didn't.

Anja106
July 28th, 2007, 9:47 pm
I think Nick said "I chose to remain behind", so you can choose whether you want to become a ghost and stay in the world you know, or if you want to "go on" and get to know the secrets of death. On the one hand, it would make sense that Voldemort becomes a ghost because he fears death, but on the other hand I can't imagine him "living" as a ghost in a world in which he was defeated. So probably he would have "gone on".

canismajoris
July 28th, 2007, 10:10 pm
He could have become a ghost. There's nothing to say that he didn't.

But that alone doesn't mean much. Nothing says Dennis Creevey can't turn into a Unicorn at will, but the evidence against this is fairly convincing.

Miss_Lovegood
July 29th, 2007, 1:22 am
All of his soul he had destroyed by killing people. I always thought that the soul had to be whole to become a ghost - until I found that the Bloody Baron had killed the Grey Lady. So yeah he destroyed his soul.

Severus_Snape77
July 29th, 2007, 1:43 am
To become a ghost, dont you have to leave an imprint... (as many on this topic have said...) now... Voldemort split his soul in order to make Horcruxes. When they were all destroyed, the bit of soul still left inside of him was the only part left, and when that got destroyed... wouldn't he experiance something worse than death? Doesn't one's soul move on when they're dead? But Voldemort has no soul left, so no ghost... and no moving on to the afterlife... geeze

Snapes_Girl
July 29th, 2007, 3:20 am
Definitely not. With Voldemort spliting his soul in so many pieces, I do not see how this could happen.

LordJackSparrow
July 29th, 2007, 3:46 am
He might have come back as a ghost.we never learn other wise.

Amortentia11
July 29th, 2007, 3:48 am
in my opinion, voldemort wasn't human enough to become a ghost. plus, he was condemned to the depths of hell haha or so i like to think ;-)

Puffapod
July 29th, 2007, 5:07 am
Even though LV couldn't bear the thought of death enough to make a ghost of him there may not have been enough soul left to become one.

All of his soul he had destroyed by killing people. I always thought that the soul had to be whole to become a ghost - until I found that the Bloody Baron had killed the Grey Lady. So yeah he destroyed his soul.

The Bloody Baron was so remorseful at what he had done that he killed himself with the same knife that he killed the Grey Lady with. That remorse kept his soul from fragmenting which is why he could be a ghost.

Harry tells LV during their final duel to feel remorse in order to save his soul.

Lilyseyes3
July 29th, 2007, 6:11 am
Voldemort didn't think that he could die. He had six, seven if you count Harry, backup plans. As long as parts of his soul were still alive he wasn't truly dead, which means there could be no ghost. Nagini was killed mere minutes before he battled with Harry. Even during the battle he didnt' really think that Harry would kill him. There were times where he might have been worried that he could not kill Harry, but he probably didn't think that he was going to die. Voldemort probably never really thought about being a ghost because he didn't think that he could ever get to the point of death.

HPGramp
July 29th, 2007, 6:32 am
In the HP universe it would appear that when you die you go to your own version of "Kings Cross" and that is where you decide how to proceed. For most it is to move onto the next adventure (as Dumbledore said), for Nick and others who feared death it was to remain behind as ghosts and for Harry it was to return to the living. For the "thing" that was the part of Voldemort's soul, and presumably the part that resided in his body, there wasn't enough humanity left to make that decision. My guess is that Voldemort's perception of that space would be hellish - death after all was what he feared most. Hope he gets all he feared and more.

Norwood06
July 29th, 2007, 6:41 am
What was left of his soul was a helpless, miserable flayed baby. Even if that infantile existence permitted Voldemort to decide whether to remain or move 'on', what a pathetic ghost it would make. A miserable infant whimpering in the corner of the Slytherin common room. Likely shoved under one of those comfy chairs.

kuroi_shi
July 29th, 2007, 7:08 am
... To become a ghost, he would have had to have a soul... Remember, Ghosts are imprints of souls, or something.. Voldy didn't have any soul left to leave behind...

..

hyogoetophile
July 30th, 2007, 1:40 am
There's so much that was left out of the book because it wasn't important enough to Harry's journey: I agree that it's likely Voldemort couldn't become a ghost because he had mutilated his soul too much, but until Jo or the Encyclopedia verifies this, I'm not gonna assume anything.

General_Ridley
July 30th, 2007, 1:46 am
Voldemort's remaining soul piece was in no fit state to choose anything. I highly doubt it could have ever chosen to become a ghost.


also: http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb211/Spenser_Santos/horcrux.gif

He wasn't a departed soul, but a departed soul piece. Probably wasn't enough to make a ghost.

Fairygdmther
July 30th, 2007, 4:30 am
I'm not so sure about the soul being the source of the 'ghost', and that LV didn't have enough left to make a ghost. However, shredding his soul as he had done, vastly changed his body image. He became almost reptilian, slits for nostrils, red eyes, vertical pupils. Perhaps he was no longer 'human' enough to become a ghost.

Also, would the remaining fragment that was left in LV, when the AK spell rebounded on him, possibly re-unite with the 'baby' soul that Harry saw in King's Cross? And what about the diadem and the part in Nagini? They were all within a few hours of each other.

FGM

General_Ridley
July 30th, 2007, 4:38 am
I'm not so sure about the soul being the source of the 'ghost', and that LV didn't have enough left to make a ghost. However, shredding his soul as he had done, vastly changed his body image. He became almost reptilian, slits for nostrils, red eyes, vertical pupils. Perhaps he was no longer 'human' enough to become a ghost.

Also, would the remaining fragment that was left in LV, when the AK spell rebounded on him, possibly re-unite with the 'baby' soul that Harry saw in King's Cross? And what about the diadem and the part in Nagini? They were all within a few hours of each other.

FGM

I think the flayed baby wasn't the part that was in Harry. I think it was the piece remaining within Voldemort's body. Destroying his own Horcrux knocked him out of it at the same time as Harry, and he awoke at the same time.

Remember. When a Horcrux is destroyed, the soul piece inside is destroyed. When a person is killed, their soul goes on to where souls go, and then can choose to go on further or come back as a ghost. We saw the place where that choice occurs. I think Dumbledore hung back there until Harry had done what was necessary, so he could explain.

the pieces in the Horcruxes were destroyed, and Voldemort's final eternity is to remain in that limbo as the flayed, screaming, pitiful thing he is. No Death Eater left alive after he died would ever take him on with them, so he's stranded. And Bella would believe Voldemort would never fall, and would have gone on without waiting for her master. She was the only one who would ever take him along with her.

FredRocksMySocks
July 30th, 2007, 4:39 am
I smell a sequel :lol:

No, seriously, he did have 1/8 of a soul left in him, and I bet that's enough. The bloody baron was able to come back even though he committed a murder. But I guess it's a choice. LV would be horribly ineffective as a ghost, wouldn't he? He has less power in him than the least-qualified wizard out there. That's a huge ego-blow.

General_Ridley
July 30th, 2007, 4:48 am
^^^ to be fair, the Bloody Baron did what Voldemort could not: he truly felt remorse for his action. Remorse being the only thing that can mend a torn or severed soul.

And then he offed himself for his crime.

Fairygdmther
July 30th, 2007, 5:02 am
I think the flayed baby wasn't the part that was in Harry. I think it was the piece remaining within Voldemort's body. Destroying his own Horcrux knocked him out of it at the same time as Harry, and he awoke at the same time.

Remember. When a Horcrux is destroyed, the soul piece inside is destroyed. When a person is killed, their soul goes on to where souls go, and then can choose to go on further or come back as a ghost. We saw the place where that choice occurs. I think Dumbledore hung back there until Harry had done what was necessary, so he could explain.

the pieces in the Horcruxes were destroyed, and Voldemort's final eternity is to remain in that limbo as the flayed, screaming, pitiful thing he is. No Death Eater left alive after he died would ever take him on with them, so he's stranded. And Bella would believe Voldemort would never fall, and would have gone on without waiting for her master. She was the only one who would ever take him along with her.

So you're saying that following the scene in the forest, LV had no soul left, not even the remaining part that hadn't been put into a horcrux? In effect he was as soulless as someone who had been 'kissed' by a dementor?

FGM

General_Ridley
July 30th, 2007, 5:06 am
So you're saying that following the scene in the forest, LV had no soul left, not even the remaining part that hadn't been put into a horcrux? In effect he was as soulless as someone who had been 'kissed' by a dementor?

FGM

not at all. Otherwise he would not be able to walk and talk and kill.

Harry's soul was there too, and Harry being in that in between state chose to go back. Voldemort's body's piece came back too, as it had not been destroyed. It was, for the last time, experienceing the connection it shared to its brother within Harry Potter. Voldemort was out because Harry was out, and instead of Harry being lost in Voldemort's thoughts, Voldemort was lost in Harry's.

witchsmart
August 3rd, 2007, 3:36 pm
General_Ridley:
the pieces in the Horcruxes were destroyed, and Voldemort's final eternity is to remain in that limbo as the flayed, screaming, pitiful thing he is.

I agree. If he goes back, he becomes a ghost that has no power whatsoever in the mortal world. If he moves on, he faces the thing that he fears the most, death. So he's stuck forever in "Kings Cross", unable to decide where to go.

MaWeasley
August 3rd, 2007, 4:44 pm
I agree. If he goes back, he becomes a ghost that has no power whatsoever in the mortal world. If he moves on, he faces the thing that he fears the most, death. So he's stuck forever in "Kings Cross", unable to decide where to go.

Given that Harry says he has seen what Voldemort becomes and that is that flayed baby in King's Cross, I would say that Voldemort is stuck there because he doesn't have enough left to do anything. That baby thing (and I have to say I hate that image for a whole bunch of reasons) didn't seem to have the ability to either go back or go forward. It seemed incapable of movement, except shuddering. It didn't even seem to have a consciousness--how was it going to get on a train or go back to its body? Is that Voldlemort's fate--eternally unaware of self, but just suffering? Voldemort was concerned only for himself and prized himself above everything else and now he has no "self" at all. Not only is that fitting for an egomaniac like LV, but it really is a fate worse than death.

cybobbie
August 3rd, 2007, 5:44 pm
I'm glad that he didn't, but even if he wanted to become a ghost I don't think that it was possible since his soul was so fragmented (7 Horcruxes = 8 parts of soul).

popcornzyum
August 3rd, 2007, 5:49 pm
AAAAH! A ghost Voldemort, Will he never let them be!?!?! I'm glad he didnt though, that would've ruined the happy ending for Harry, he probably would've haunted him for the rest of his life!

DarthSirius
August 3rd, 2007, 5:52 pm
According to Nearly Headless Nick in OotP, people who fear death remain attached to the earth after they die, and become ghosts.

Voldemort feared death like no other. Shouldn't he have become a ghost?

I think he would have had he left his soul intact. He himself said that his existance after he was first defeated was as less than the meanest ghost. I don't think he left himself enough soul to become a ghost, and the rest of the soul had been destroyed with the Horcruxes. It sounded to me like the soul would not be able to re-form into one complete soul.

dagameselite
August 3rd, 2007, 6:00 pm
Wow. Voldy ghost...that would be, by far, the sickest thing ever. I can imagine that freaky little baby crawling around, throwing temper tantrums while all the mudblood people make fun of him! That would be a fate worse than death for him, lol! :P

victoriakrum
August 3rd, 2007, 6:42 pm
I would say that since Voldemort's soul was so damaged, he couldn't have become a ghost. I was wondering about when a baby witch/wizard dies though. I don't think they would become a ghost because babies can't really fear death, and Voldemort sort of turned into a baby in that afterworld at King's Cross.... I'm more than slightly confused by the whole thing.

sableflames
August 4th, 2007, 3:31 am
I'm guessing that not enough of Voldy's soul remained for him to become a ghost. He was "less than human"...

enmapotter
August 4th, 2007, 4:19 am
I don't think so, but it's a disturbing idea for sure. I think that the fact that a wizard fears death doesn't mean that when he/she dies he/she will become a ghost, I think it's a choice one makes.

I think the flayed baby wasn't the part that was in Harry. I think it was the piece remaining within Voldemort's body. Destroying his own Horcrux knocked him out of it at the same time as Harry, and he awoke at the same time.

Hmmm... I think that "baby" was indeed the fragment that was inside of Harry, because if not, then when did that horcrux get out of Harry? I think Harry could return because there were still some horcruxes left and according to the prophecy neither can live while the other survives, meaning, if Harry dies Voldie dies, but if voldie lives Harry lives too, so Voldie was alive because he still had nagini and the last bit of soul in himself.

I don't know if I'm making any sense, I think this needs to be discussed much further, it's kinda complicated.

somerandom592
August 4th, 2007, 9:11 am
No matter how much he hated the idea of death, he wouldnt want to show weakness.

Wright1771
August 14th, 2007, 10:02 am
As Voldemort was terrified of death, yes..it is possible! But where to put him?
He won't go to Hogwarts...I know, let him be gone to Malfoy Manor, or possibly someware more fitting.....'The Riddle House'!

danno
August 14th, 2007, 2:20 pm
You need to leave an imprint of your soul, right? I don't think he had enough soul left to do that.

xoxtapdancexox
August 14th, 2007, 2:31 pm
I don't think Voldemort had anough of his soul left to become a ghost.

YellowRose
August 14th, 2007, 2:34 pm
There wasn't enough of him left to become a ghost?Very, very good point!

snapeismyhero
August 14th, 2007, 3:25 pm
I think Voldemort would have definitely become a ghost if he had not split his soul. But by doing this, he makes it impossible to acheive immortality in the after life. He can't move on past that 'limbo' between the living and dead, but he is stuck.

wizard2423
August 14th, 2007, 7:42 pm
It is said in the books that wizards decide BEFORE THEY DIE if they will become ghosts or not. Voldemort never thought he would die therefore he never chose that path.

OldLupin
August 14th, 2007, 7:55 pm
It is said in the books that wizards decide BEFORE THEY DIE if they will become ghosts or not. Voldemort never thought he would die therefore he never chose that path.

I agree with you, even if what he had was enough of a soul to become a ghost, he would never have planned on preparing to become a ghost, he would have had to accept death to do that the way it is made to sound and he would have put all of his energy into trying to stay alive, no matter what.

skedaddle
August 14th, 2007, 7:58 pm
There wasn't enough left of him to become a ghost. In my opinion, he was denied the right to be a ghost and continue co-existing with people when he decided to take the lives of other people to benefit his own.

JJFinch
August 14th, 2007, 8:04 pm
As I understand it:

To become a ghost you have to actually pre-arrange it, like writing a Will, and Nick did so because he was afraid of death.

Voldemort, on the other hand, though terrified of death, would have taken no such measures, as to do so would be to admit that he might one day die, and that is what he spent his life trying to deny.

biscuitsforall
August 14th, 2007, 8:31 pm
If he doesn't become a ghost, then when he dies will his soul reform? Or will all the seperate pieces stay like that and endure differing forms of agony? would one bit of soul be treated worse in the afterlife if the manner of the death was more horrific? I didn't think he would get to be a ghost, but there are so many unexplained questions regarding horcruxes and souls.

bmephisto
August 28th, 2007, 6:30 am
Lord Voldemort seems like exactly the kind of person who had unfinished business, and being so afraid of death, don't you think it would be possible for him to return back as a ghost? That way, he can lead his Death-eaters for eternity, and never worry about dying again... true immortality if you will.

General_Ridley
August 28th, 2007, 7:13 am
Lord Voldemort seems like exactly the kind of person who had unfinished business, and being so afraid of death, don't you think it would be possible for him to return back as a ghost? That way, he can lead his Death-eaters for eternity, and never worry about dying again... true immortality if you will.

he wouldn't want it.

He would be more powerless than he was during his exile, when he could at least still possess people and animals. When he said he was less than the meanest ghost, he was referring to the fact that he was only a portion of a soul, while ghosts tend to be the imprints of whole souls.

He would feel that forever, never able to get over it.

And due to how diminished his soul was, he likely had no conscious ability to even decide to leave an imprint if he wanted to.

Jack1992
September 30th, 2007, 8:37 pm
I remember reading an interview with JKR and I'm quite sure that she said that voldemort was forced to exist as the stunted "baby" at "Kings Cross".

Voldemorts8thHorcrux
September 30th, 2007, 11:28 pm
his soul was practically destroyed, so...

wickedwickedboy
October 16th, 2007, 8:38 am
I figured when Voldemort died he moved on to the afterworld. In my view of the afterworld (pure speculation of course), all is not immediately forgiven or forgotten. I feel that Voldemort would have a good number of wizards confronting him as he made his way through the gates and would recieve an earful during which years of unfelt regret and remorse would course through his soul. However, after that, love would flow through him - something he'd never felt before and he would become a 'new man'; Tom Riddle with a loving soul. Shortly thereafter, everyone would once again get back to being upon the great adventure Dumbledore spoke of and Tom Riddle would join in the fun as well and all ill regard would be put to rest forever. I like happy endings I guess. :)

thewbacca
October 16th, 2007, 12:35 pm
I couldn't have put that better myself to be honest. I think once Voldemort saw that his horcruxes had been deystroyed also he came to the conclusion that his death was inevitable.Or not, as he kept fighting.

I figured when Voldemort died he moved on to the afterworld. In my view of the afterworld (pure speculation of course), all is not immediately forgiven or forgotten. I feel that Voldemort would have a good number of wizards confronting him as he made his way through the gates and would recieve an earful during which years of unfelt regret and remorse would course through his soul. However, after that, love would flow through him - something he'd never felt before and he would become a 'new man'; Tom Riddle with a loving soul. Shortly thereafter, everyone would once again get back to being upon the great adventure Dumbledore spoke of and Tom Riddle would join in the fun as well and all ill regard would be put to rest forever. I like happy endings I guess. :) I'm seriously doubting that. I think in their world, there is a heaven and hell, as the person who created it believes in heaven and hell. He was evil, vile, wicked, whatever you want to call it. What little there was of him, it went to hell.

_Flagrate_
October 16th, 2007, 1:24 pm
Haha Voldemort as a ghost. He'd get the wet taken out of him so much.

thewbacca
October 16th, 2007, 1:28 pm
Haha Voldemort as a ghost. He'd get the wet taken out of him so much.

Bear in mind that a ghost can still share their secrets with others, tell them of the fantastic powers he managed to obtain, tempt them to the dark side. And then there' really be know way to stop him.

AndrewSims
October 16th, 2007, 8:07 pm
I agree with what everyone's saying about how Voldemort's soul has been torn so much that he couldn't come back as a ghost, but I think that even if he could've, he wouldn't choose to because everyone would be so cruel to him and he wouldn't be able to do anything about it.

HMN
October 17th, 2007, 5:42 pm
I know when Nearly Headless Nick tells Harry that he became a ghost it was because he was afraid of death - I think the thing that was implied was that he had something to live for. Just like the Bloody Barron and the Gray Lady - they had some work they needed to finish (in a manner of speaking). I think Voldemort died knowing that Harry did get the best of him. He didn't have anything left incomplete - he knew Harry destroyed the Horcruxes, knew that the one thing he lived in fear of for the last 17 years had finally run its course. I also think that Voldemort would have lost all respect from his followers leaving him with nothing - he might think that even death would be preferable to that.

I agree with the other posts that he didn't have enough soul to survive as a ghost. When he was ripped from his body on 'Harry Potter Day' he claimed he was 'less than the meanest ghost'. And that was only because other bits of soul hidden here and there tethered him to life. Without the anchors, he had no Spirit, no Soul to survive as.

MarieNC
October 17th, 2007, 6:44 pm
JKR answered this question during a recent interview:

Jon: Since voldemort was afraid of death, did he choose to be a ghost if so where does he haunt or is this not possible due to his horcruxes
J.K. Rowling: No, he is not a ghost. He is forced to exist in the stunted form we witnessed in King's Cross.

Voldemort won't be a ghost. He'll remain in that suffering, flayed baby form for eternity in the afterlife .

_Flagrate_
October 17th, 2007, 7:15 pm
Gutted for Voldemort then. Imagine that, having to "live" as a mutated baby for eternity in the afterlife. Man, that must suck for him! I guess it's something he deserves.

Grotfang
October 17th, 2007, 7:38 pm
Hmm. Perhaps. However, JKR's statement aside, this topic has made me think about LV a lot more. Everyone here seems to have assumed that a fractured soul equates to a removal of choice in the afterlife. I see no reason for this to be the case (beyond, obviously, JKR's statement :)). Also, another assumption that seems to be inherent in the thread is that, given the choice, Voldy would be a ghost. It is very easy to forget that LV is a very, VERY intelligent wizard, and as such would realise the restriction of spectral form, as well as the repurcussions of his return. He would be an emblam of victory for the wizard community he abondoned all those years ago and would have nothing of his "former glory". His supporters would not stand by him as he would have lost all element of fear. I truly believe that he would chose to move on, were he to have the option.

As for him deserving an eternity trapped in the form he exhibits in King's Cross... I think a better irony would be him in his true form, eternally aware of his fallability. That would crush him far more IMO...

_Flagrate_
October 17th, 2007, 7:48 pm
As for him deserving an eternity trapped in the form he exhibits in King's Cross... I think a better irony would be him in his true form, eternally aware of his fallability. That would crush him far more IMO...

I was under the impression that the mutilated baby like creature was Voldemort's true form. When his AK turned on him he said something like "I fled, I was barely human" or something along those lines (I think it was in the resurrection chapter of GoF). I don't think he'd say "barely human" if it was just his soul. I think that's his true form. The potion Wormtail made was just to give him his former body. It wasn't his, just a replica, a shell of kinds.

MarieNC
October 17th, 2007, 8:00 pm
Gutted for Voldemort then. Imagine that, having to "live" as a mutated baby for eternity in the afterlife. Man, that must suck for him! I guess it's something he deserves.

Well, JKR has also said that Voldemort was a psychopath and beyond redemption, so it's not clear how much choice he had in that fate. The woman at the orphanage said he was a "funny baby" who never cried; he killed a rabbit as a child, etc. It doesn't seem like LV ever had the chance to not be a psychopath - and then he is condemned to eternal hell for a dysfunction he had no choice in. That's pretty harsh, IMO.

Grotfang
October 17th, 2007, 8:24 pm
Although that perspective is a dangerous one. Are you suggesting a form of rehabilitation in the afterlife? Like AA, but soooooo much more interesting.

Hello, I'm Tom Riddle. And I'm a psychopath, etc.

It is harsh. The question is, is it deserved. Harry gives him a chance for redemption via remorse and LV laughs it off. I don't believe in an afterlife, but from canon I find it hard to see that LV will be let off lightly for his sins. The question in my mind is what would punish him more.

MarieNC
October 17th, 2007, 8:43 pm
Well, it's more that I'm troubled by JKR's contention that someone deserves damnation for a mental dsyfunction that they had no choice in. From canon, LV seems totally incapable of love or remorse - so, he's created that way, and then damned for that same lack. I just hope she doesn't extend the same view to mental illness in general, because that would be a dangerous persepective, IMO.

DeathlyH
October 17th, 2007, 9:12 pm
I assume he couldn't come back because he was always incomplete; as Dumbledore siad about the "flayed baby" in King's Cross, there was no helping it. I think Voldemort would just have to stay there forever, not being able to go back to Earth, or to take a train "on."

Grotfang
October 17th, 2007, 9:24 pm
MarieNC:

True. It's a fishy area. I think the problem we have with LV is that he is a special case. I'm going to avoid invoking Godwin's Law here because I hate the comparison and it doesn't help discussion, but I think that JKR's opinion appears to be that someone's actions are the predominant decider in the afterlife.

LV was a highly intelligent man (although also highly limited), and as such he must have been able to connect his behaviour with his mental state. He knew what he was doing, knew that it was socially wrong, but did it anyway. Compare this with Dumbledore (I believe his "greater good" stuff was written for this comparison) and we see that what is important isn't the state of mind, but acting on it.

LV was psychologically troubled, but he is someone who can acknowledge the fact and adjust his behaviours accordingly. He chose not to. I see no reason to assume that JKR extends her damnation of LV to others with mental illness - the scope of Voldy's atroscities (sp?) isolates him as a "special case".

I hope this helps. I didn't mean to seem insensitive to mental illness or similar innate disabilities and I'm sorry if I came across as such. My opinions extend as far as Lord Voldemort and no further.

muchXmoreXmacho
October 17th, 2007, 9:41 pm
I assume he couldn't come back because he was always incomplete; as Dumbledore siad about the "flayed baby" in King's Cross, there was no helping it. I think Voldemort would just have to stay there forever, not being able to go back to Earth, or to take a train "on."

This is an interesting point. The way Voldemort caused his soul to be by breaking it so many times would make it very difficult to piece together and keep them together enough to allow him to "move on"...I mean, if he can't fire a curse because his soul is too fragile, this doesn't seem like a likely option. This thought really actually makes me feel sorry for him...he's destined to be just a poor, whimpering piece of soul lying on the floor of limbo forever.

Just as an afterthought, what do you guys think about all of the pieces of soul he placed in objects...would they be in the same predicament? Or is it only this one, because it was encased in a living thing?

CoeurDeLyon
October 18th, 2007, 1:55 am
IMO, Voldemort wouldnt of came back as a ghost because he was much too proud to come back as anything but alive. He wanted to live in this world, and he would have done anything to stay. I think he would have been repulsed and ashamed to come back as anything less than living.

snuka
October 18th, 2007, 10:14 am
He would if he had an intact soul.

MarieNC: I view it more as someone deserving damnation for all the atrocities and mostly showing no remorse. Remember even right at the end Harry gives him a chance to show remorse (as for Harry and Snape, Hogwarts itself was a second chance for Riddle, the third "lost boy"). I think that's a nice idea - even someone like him deserved a second chance, a way to repent.

HeRmIoNe_14
October 19th, 2007, 2:07 am
I guess it was because of his shattered soul, most of it was alredy gone, he had only one eighth of it left. Snape said that (I think it was like this) a ghost is the imprint of a departed soul left upon the earth. I suppose such a small fraction of soul could not leave an imprint.

Night_Sky
October 19th, 2007, 2:48 am
I am glad he did not. He needed to die and be gone. I do not think he had any soul left. So he could not have left any thing here.

Rookie_Angel
October 19th, 2007, 3:18 am
I don't think it was meant to be thought that each successive piece was split in mathematical half making him down to 1/128 of a soul, then work that out to how many months old the flayed child in King's Cross was. I don't think JKR thinks in those kinds of mathematical terms. I think it was just about damage, tearing--those are the kinds of words we hear most often in the books when Horcruxes are described. You tear a hole in, for example, a towel, you may be able to sew or patch one hole. But if you tear 7 pieces iout of it, or hang it up and slash at it 7 times with a knife, or rip it, then rip it again in another direction, rip it again, etc., it's going to be pretty useless and unrepairable. Only a soul is more like a living thing. I sort of picture Voldemort's with a lot of jagged bleeding rough edges, hanging in tatters. Not usable, not fixable, but he doesn't think he has to worry about it because he doesn't think his soul is anything he'll ever really have any need for, so he sees no problem in tearing it up for rags, especially rags that he thinks will be able to keep him alive forever.

So when his soul gets yanked to KC with Harry (I believe it was V's actual soul that was still in his body that we see in KC) we see a "sneak preview of what he "will be" if he doesn't show any remorse before he dies. I don't think that the creature at KC was the Horcrux piece from Harry, because I think that once detached from V's body, the Horcrux pieces just "go out" once their container is gone. The pieces from the Horcruxes that were destroyed, I think were just destroyed. I don't think they could go on or anything.

So being left with just an irreparable, unuable piece and nothing that equates to an actual workable soul when he gets to "King's Cross" where a soul is the coin of the realm, he is as JKR said, stuck there in that useless fragmented form. (In another thread, I said it was like he was left with a bumper, when everyone else had at least something between a "junker" car and a Porsche to drive wherever they were going afterward. What he had just wasn't going to cut it to move on or become a ghost with. He was just stuck.

fruitia pickleweed
October 19th, 2007, 7:41 am
...JKR's contention that someone deserves damnation...

I'm just catching up here, but is damnation part of the Potterverse?

What happened to Voldie seems more like karma -- a predicament that is a direct result of his actions. Not a punishment as such.

Evil_Toast
October 19th, 2007, 9:34 am
Well, it's more that I'm troubled by JKR's contention that someone deserves damnation for a mental dsyfunction that they had no choice in. From canon, LV seems totally incapable of love or remorse - so, he's created that way, and then damned for that same lack. I just hope she doesn't extend the same view to mental illness in general, because that would be a dangerous persepective, IMO.

Um...he had plenty of choice. He was NOT created that way...he could have loved if he had wanted to, he chose to be evil instead, and he got what he deserved because of that choice.

sudeshna2kool4u
October 19th, 2007, 12:12 pm
I think JKR had answered this particular question somewhjere...

gertiekeddle
October 19th, 2007, 12:23 pm
I think JKR had answered this particular question somewhjere...Could you provide a link to this, please? All our members are welcome to discuss any topic as long as JK didn't give a clear answer on it, though. :)

persian85033
October 22nd, 2007, 2:31 am
Bear in mind that a ghost can still share their secrets with others, tell them of the fantastic powers he managed to obtain, tempt them to the dark side. And then there' really be know way to stop him.

OMG, you're right! Thank goodness he did split his soul, then. Good thing he was so afraid of death, he didn't stop to think about coming back as a ghost.

RemusLupinFan
October 23rd, 2007, 12:13 am
I'd have to agree that he couldn't become a ghost because his soul was maimed beyond repair. As a result, he has to spend eternity as the "flayed baby" at King's Cross. I agree it's a good thing he physically couldn't become a ghost, because he likely would have chosen to become one due to his fear of death.

Jonny Boy
October 25th, 2007, 12:51 am
I think Voldemort could have come back as a ghost if he had wanted to, I don't think the damage to his soul would have made a lot of difference, so he's still probably on his way to hell and not just stuck in that limbo place, whatever it appeared to him as. I think the reason he wouldn't come back as a ghost is because, as someone said several posts up, that is something he would never choose to do, because he is waaaaaaay to proud a character. Even if he could share all his deep, dark secrets with someone else to carry on for him, he couldn't stand that happening. Even with his diary he was still the one controlling the person, he only trusted himself to do anything.

sericana
October 25th, 2007, 4:59 am
when DD and Harry were talking during the Kings Cross chapter of DH, DD said that Voldemort had "destroyed" the piece of his soul in harry. and during the entire horcrux search, they always referred to "destroying" the pieces of his soul contained in the horcrux. following this logic, one can only assume that voldemort's fracture pieces of soul were destroyed once all the horcruxes were destroyed. This leaves only the horribly mutilated piece inside his body still intact when he kills himself. the only logical reason why he can't come back as a ghost is because the only piece left was simply too mutilated and altered to hold a spirit to earth without a body to reside in.

voldemort is not simply dead... he's non-existant

oh, and he would not have ever considered becoming a ghost. a ghost is unable to do magic, hold a wand, or control people. he would have to depend upon others' devotion to him, and he would be unable to punish or control them. that lack of control would be considered weakness by voldemort, and we all know how volde felt about weakness. at least when he possessed quirrell and ginny, he could punish them and gain an element of almost complete control over their bodies. as a ghost, he would have no such abilities.

sunshinehannah
October 25th, 2007, 3:53 pm
Didn't Jk Rowling say he was forced to exist in the form of the creature at Kings Cross?

ronjalina
October 25th, 2007, 4:40 pm
Well, it's more that I'm troubled by JKR's contention that someone deserves damnation for a mental dsyfunction that they had no choice in. From canon, LV seems totally incapable of love or remorse - so, he's created that way, and then damned for that same lack. I just hope she doesn't extend the same view to mental illness in general, because that would be a dangerous persepective, IMO.That would indeed be troubling had LV been someone with a mental illness. But I personally donīt see it that way. LV had a choice. Repeatedly so. Even during the final duel with Harry he was given a choice. A choice for remorse because of the crimes and cruelties he committed.

Yes, LV grew up without love, but so did Harry. Both had choices, made them, LV became an evil dark wizard, Harry became a through and through good person who even was willing to sacrifice himself for the sake of the wizarding world. Every harm done to LV, he did himself. He even performed the spelll that cost him his life. His soul was maimed because he chose to kill, rip his soul apart and create Horcruxes.

And this soul-maiming would have prevented LV to remain on earth at least as a ghost. Otherwise, he would likely have given the Bloody Baron a run for his money.

fruitia pickleweed
October 25th, 2007, 4:54 pm
My sense is that there was not enough "human" left of him even to die properly (as Hagrid suggested in Book 1), let alone come back as a ghost.

So he is "stuck," as far as we know, forever, unable to "go on." I doubt if he is aware of "Kings Cross," which sems to be the way station between life and death, specifically as perceived by one individual, Harry. Everyone apparently perceives it in an individual way. To what's left of Voldemort, it might even be a version of the Muggle orphanage when he was a baby. If what's left of Voldemort is capable of any complex perceptions.

...he's still probably on his way to hell and not just stuck in that limbo place...

I think being stuck like that, presumably forever, sounds as horrible as "hell" could be. But no one did that to Voldie to punish him, which is to my understanding the essence of "hell." He simply put himself there as a natural consequence of his actions, like a person who causes himself to fall by sawing off a tree limb while sitting on it.

As to any other form of heaven or hell, we don't know in the Potterverse, but I don't notice anybody warning young witches and wizards, "If you do such-and-such, you'll go to hell." What happens to the dead who go "on"? JKR seems deliberately to avoid that one.

artemis1964
October 25th, 2007, 9:50 pm
I also wondered if he would become a ghost after his death, but immediately I remember that his soul was ripped into many pieces, which were lost or destroyed. I think it would take quite a bit of energy to be a ghost. With so much of his personal energy split and lost there would not be enough left to power a ghost. Which would be a good thing. I would hate to have the kids at school bothered by his ghost at Hogwarts.

Queen_Princess
October 25th, 2007, 10:04 pm
I thought the same thing to for a bit then I relised that he was immortal.Also he was sort of a horcrux and some sense. Either way, he couldn't become a ghost. I guees you have to be mortal and afraid of death to become a ghost.

Jilly_Potter
October 25th, 2007, 11:15 pm
I wondered why Voldemort didn't become a ghost because as people have said, he feared death above all else, but having read other people's posts I agree that his soul would have been far too fragmented and unstable to have left an imprint behind.
It is also possible that he wouldn't have liked to have remained behind with all his powers gone and without the ability to oppress and reign over other people: as a ghost he would have been less even than the mortals he despised.

Mrs_Sprout
October 27th, 2007, 10:19 pm
I agree - too little soul left to even have a chance at remaining on earth. Plus, if given a choice (and I doubt the magical "Powers" would have given him a choice), why would he stay? So his ghost could be laughed at or made fun of? Voldemort is living for eternity as the flayed child in King's Cross...

rigdoctorbri
October 27th, 2007, 11:36 pm
Voldemort had no soul remaining within him. The final piece of soul was, without his knowledge, anchored to Harry. Is it necessary to have a soul to become a ghost, or is sentience and fear of death the only requisites?

xXFireboltXx
March 26th, 2008, 6:08 pm
So since Voldemort was so obviously afraid of death, do you think he would have returned as a ghost? Or is it more likely that because his soul was partially destroyed and so maimed that it was unable to leave an imprint behind?

DeathlyH
March 26th, 2008, 8:01 pm
So since Voldemort was so obviously afraid of death, do you think he would have returned as a ghost? Or is it more likely that because his soul was partially destroyed and so maimed that it was unable to leave an imprint behind?

I think that's correct; because his soul was so badly flayed, he couldn't live, but couldn't die at the same time. He was just forced to remain under that chair in "King's Cross" forever. However, if he hadn't maimed his soul, and had died a natural death, I bet he would've been a ghost because he was always so unhappy. :D

MissCapria
March 26th, 2008, 8:07 pm
I think that's correct; because his soul was so badly flayed, he couldn't live, but couldn't die at the same time. He was just forced to remain under that chair in "King's Cross" forever. However, if he hadn't maimed his soul, and had died a natural death, I bet he would've been a ghost because he was always so unhappy. :D

Agreed. :tu:

I think he just remains in "Kings Cross" and can't go on or wherever you go in death.

LoonyMagic
March 26th, 2008, 8:12 pm
I think that's correct; because his soul was so badly flayed, he couldn't live, but couldn't die at the same time. He was just forced to remain under that chair in "King's Cross" forever. However, if he hadn't maimed his soul, and had died a natural death, I bet he would've been a ghost because he was always so unhappy. :D

Exactly. He tortured his soul with his evil so much that he could never come back as a ghost. To become a ghost I believe you need a whole soul. By this time Voldemort had divided his soul into seven pieces that would never reform. He couldn't come back.

GrangerHermione
March 26th, 2008, 8:15 pm
Yep, I agree with everyone else. :D Yes, LV feared death, but he couldn't become a ghost because he had damaged it so badly. We know that a ghost is 'the imprint of a departed soul,' but how could LV's soul depart if there was nothing left of it?

makeyoubald
March 26th, 2008, 10:01 pm
I think everyone seems to be on the money - Voldemort's soul had been ripped apart (and entirely destroyed), so there can't be anything left to form a ghost.

4_4hugo4_4
March 27th, 2008, 5:00 am
Wow.

I am tottally shocked (in a goood way).

All of your ideas and points are mindboggling.

I never thought about Voldemorts death that way before!

:err:

Man, I feel so... not smart!

Well, if I can add something to this... I think Voldy didn't exactly fear death itself but rather that he was scared of losing his control of the wizarding world.

...


I hope that helped! :p

EHoward
March 28th, 2008, 5:50 pm
So since Voldemort was so obviously afraid of death, do you think he would have returned as a ghost? Or is it more likely that because his soul was partially destroyed and so maimed that it was unable to leave an imprint behind?

I think that its definately true that Voldemort's soul was so incredibly messed up that it is unlikely that he would have been able to leave an imprint of himself behind, although he probably tried knowing him!

CougarWeems
March 28th, 2008, 5:50 pm
Last time I checked only each time he created a horcrux he would have to split his soul and a piece of a soul is like fuel, so there must be a secret 1/8th of his soul left. It is my belief that he WILL return... but only as an arm or a leg or a neck of something.

ASPotter
March 28th, 2008, 5:54 pm
So since Voldemort was so obviously afraid of death, do you think he would have returned as a ghost? Or is it more likely that because his soul was partially destroyed and so maimed that it was unable to leave an imprint behind?

Great point brought up with his souled being so messed up. I think because of this he would not be able to leave an imprint.

jojo3million
March 28th, 2008, 5:55 pm
be serious- an arm or leg? I believe he's lurking in the street corners of Diagon Alley. Voldemort is the past, present, and future, and he will never evade the magical world

trinitytiger28
March 28th, 2008, 5:58 pm
It that xXFireboltXx is right on this one. LV was to screwed up to be a ghost

jlalonde
March 28th, 2008, 5:59 pm
So since Voldemort was so obviously afraid of death, do you think he would have returned as a ghost? Or is it more likely that because his soul was partially destroyed and so maimed that it was unable to leave an imprint behind?

I think that his soul was incredibaly damaged and so it could not have been able to form a ghost.

snapper15
March 28th, 2008, 6:02 pm
So since Voldemort was so obviously afraid of death, do you think he would have returned as a ghost? Or is it more likely that because his soul was partially destroyed and so maimed that it was unable to leave an imprint behind?

I do not think Voldemort would have come back as a ghost. Even though he is afriad of death, he loves power too much. Being a ghost would leave him powerless.

TheLastHorcrux
March 28th, 2008, 11:35 pm
Are we ever told that he didn't come back as a ghost? I always thought that he would if he could, but the one thing that might get in the way is the state of his soul.

Montse
March 29th, 2008, 4:15 am
He did fear death,and as sir nicholas stated this was one of the ways you became a ghost or at least this is what i understood,but I dont think Voldy had enough soul left to become a ghost...remember what dear ronny said about a ghost being an imprint of a departed soul...well ,to be a ghost you need to have a soul...Voldy barely had a tiny,winy piece of a soul which i imagine was not enough to become an imprint...therefore he couldnt...

MasterOfDeath
March 29th, 2008, 4:25 am
I think Voldemort cannot become a ghost for the same reason he could not make any more horocruxes. His soul was so maimed and torn that he could not exist as a ghost.

Montse
March 29th, 2008, 4:37 am
I think Voldemort cannot become a ghost for the same reason he could not make any more horocruxes. His soul was so maimed and torn that he could not exist as a ghost.
yeah ...i agree...thats exactly how i feel ...unless of course there was a possibility he became this tiny ghost with a voice like a chipmunk...but i think NOT!!!!

Alicks
March 29th, 2008, 5:34 am
Anyway, for Voldemort, what good would being a ghost be unless he was a poltergiest,
Does anyone know what actually a poltergiest is

The_Green_Woods
March 29th, 2008, 7:46 am
According to Nearly Headless Nick in OotP, people who fear death remain attached to the earth after they die, and become ghosts.

Voldemort feared death like no other. Shouldn't he have become a ghost?

I very much thought so. Voldemort was so scared of death that he should have not have passed on; but perhaps he did because his soul was badly split and he could not stay on as a ghost.

GrangerHermione
March 29th, 2008, 9:00 am
Does anyone know what actually a poltergiest is
This doesn't really apply to this thread, but I looked it up once and I found out that a poltergist is a "Spirit of Choas" that has never been alive. And, unlike ghosts, it can manipulte objects. Notice how Peeves is always throwing things when regular ghosts simply go right through it if they try to pick it up. :)

And I agree with what has been said: LV feared death enough to be a ghost, and I am pretty sure that he would have chosen to come back as a one, but his soul was too damaged to do so and he didn't get the choice.

stacyINC
March 29th, 2008, 9:32 am
Hey good question!! J.K. must have not thought of that. or it slipped her mind. I wonder what Tom Riddle would do as a ghost anyway..just be really angry he lost his battle with Harry..well stand off not battle as they never really fought.

Montse
March 29th, 2008, 1:09 pm
Hey good question!! J.K. must have not thought of that. or it slipped her mind. I wonder what Tom Riddle would do as a ghost anyway..just be really angry he lost his battle with Harry..well stand off not battle as they never really fought.



__________________
i have said it before but i will say it again...he didnt have enough soul in him to become a ghost..so this was imposible...

LoonyMagic
March 29th, 2008, 1:31 pm
I think that if Voldemort had shown remorse, which would have probably killed him, then he would have become a ghost. His soul would have formed back together, and he would have been able to be a ghost. However, it was obvious that Voldemort never would show remorse.

The_Green_Woods
March 29th, 2008, 2:27 pm
To become a ghost I think all one would need in the Hp world was to be scared to die. But I think you have a point too! Perhaps remorse would have brought his soul together for him to become a ghost. When I first thought about this, my reasons were that Voldemort coming back even as a ghost would scare people. He could have never be killed and he could cause a real lot of problems IMO.

GrangerHermione
March 29th, 2008, 4:41 pm
I think that if Voldemort had shown remorse, which would have probably killed him, then he would have become a ghost. His soul would have formed back together, and he would have been able to be a ghost. However, it was obvious that Voldemort never would show remorse.
I think so too. But LV would have to show the ULTIMATE remorse to piece his soul back together after what he'd done. And I agree; knowing Voldemort, this would never happen. :no:

To become a ghost I think all one would need in the Hp world was to be scared to die. But I think you have a point too! Perhaps remorse would have brought his soul together for him to become a ghost. When I first thought about this, my reasons were that Voldemort coming back even as a ghost would scare people. He could have never be killed and he could cause a real lot of problems IMO.
I agree. :agree: If LV had turnd into a ghost, it would be very scary and would most likely cause a great riot in the wizarding world.

Sacred_Memories
March 30th, 2008, 7:57 pm
Voldemort had split his soul, and he pushed the boundaries of magic further than where they should be. His evil act of dividing his souls was not permitted in order for him to become a ghost.

Montse
March 30th, 2008, 8:03 pm
I think that if Voldemort had shown remorse, which would have probably killed him, then he would have become a ghost. His soul would have formed back together, and he would have been able to be a ghost. However, it was obvious that Voldemort never would show remorse.
excellent point Loony...I totally agree...

tjd8591
March 31st, 2008, 3:27 am
Couldn't it be possible for part of Voldemort's soul to return in some sort of form? Similar possibly to the Horcrux that came out of Harry in King's Cross?

sirius_lee_G
March 31st, 2008, 4:03 am
maybe you need your entire soul to return as a ghost.
maybe he didn't come out of plain humilty/shame?

MissCapria
March 31st, 2008, 11:44 pm
Voldemort had split his soul, and he pushed the boundaries of magic further than where they should be. His evil act of dividing his souls was not permitted in order for him to become a ghost.

Yeah, I agree .... :tu: I think his soul has been split so much it would be impossble for him to return as a ghost. :)

LinnendeBlack
April 2nd, 2008, 12:19 am
I also think it is probably necessary for you to have a pretty much intact soul for you to be able to come back as a ghost. Voldemort's soul, as we know, was practically in tatters.

Montse
April 2nd, 2008, 1:38 am
i insist its impossible for a bit of a soul to become a ghost unless you can visualize voldy like this tiny winny ghost with the voice of alvin an the chipmunks...it would make no sense at all...

chmpgnrose
April 5th, 2008, 8:48 pm
How does one leave an imprint on Earth in order to become a ghost? Does horcruxes qualify to leave an imprint?

PureBloodGirl
April 5th, 2008, 9:04 pm
How does one leave an imprint on Earth in order to become a ghost? Does horcruxes qualify to leave an imprint?
I actually think they do. That's just me though. I've got a strange mind so you shouldn't listen to me.