Aberforth Dumbledore: Character Analysis

what do you think of the relevation of Aberforth Dumbledore as a character? its the first time we're really meeting him....any notable similarities to Albus DD? except physical ones? Do you actually feel Aberforth was "saner" than Albus? (reference to Ariana..and the circumstances of her death)..why do you think he never revealed himself in Hog's head? why wasn't he a part of the Order of the Pheonix?
discuss everything related to your opinion and doubts about Aberforth in here

I really liked Aberforth! He really showed that Albus really was human and had ambitions when he was younger.

Actually, if I remember correctly, Aberforth was a member of the Order, but not quite so active. I don't think he identified himself at the Hog's Head because he never really needed to in terms of plot.

As to whether he was saner than Albus, I think so in some ways. But lets not forget that incident with the goats :lol:

heck, here's a character I love. We don't get to see much of him, but what we see is such a brilliant and psychologically convincing sketch of a character. He's grumpy and lacks everything that could be called 'charming', but he's got his heart in the right place, and in the midst of all his cynicism and facing hopelessness, he does everything in his power to do the right thing. I actually prefer that from his brother's brand of greatness. Aberforth is the more credibly human character (although Albus improved in my eyes in DH - a human being, at last, suffering from the same conditio humana as the rest of us, too)

lol, you know I always hoped that there wasn't an eewwwww factor with the inappropriate charms on the goats, but now that his patronus is definitely a goat, I concede defeat lol.

I liked him. He was not as 'for the greater good' as Albus, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. He still got in the thick of things. I think he was a lot cleverer than people gave him credit for, and I think this may have been deliberate on Albus' part.

Nobody would've felt threatened by the old bar-tender of The Hogs Head. Even if they (Death Eaters etc) found out he was Aberforth, Albus was saying that he wasnt even sure he could read. I find that unlikely.

Like muggles, and house elves, centaurs etc, he would have been passed over as inconsequential.

Aberforth was a pretty striking character, and helped reveal a much more tangible side of the saintly Albus. At first, you'd think that Aberforth would be the more morally inclined of the brothers.. we witnessed his devotion to his sister and felt his pain as his family was torn apart, and saw his "very human" reaction of punching Albus at Ariana's funeral.

However, we also see why Albus may be so much greater than his brother actually is/became. In the Fight of Hogwarts, Aberforth comments to Harry that they should have kept Slytherin students prisoner to blackmail the Death Eaters, and Harry quickly responds that "Your brother wouldn't have done that."

I think this comment serves even more to rectify the wrongs in Albus' youth. Which is really Aberforth's place in the novel.

I liked him and I was glad that he helped Harry so much. One thing I wonder, though...when Ron asked if he had sent the doe, why did he not know the doe was Snape's Patronus? Didn't all the members of the order communicate via patronus? I guess maybe he never had the occasion to communicate with Snape that way. Anyway, overall, I liked Aberforth, but I still prefer Albus.

I liked him and I was glad that he helped Harry so much. One thing I wonder, though...when Ron asked if he had sent the doe, why did he not know the doe was Snape's Patronus? Didn't all the members of the order communicate via patronus? I guess maybe he never had the occasion to communicate with Snape that way. Anyway, overall, I liked Aberforth, but I still prefer Albus.

I don't think many people ever saw Snape's patronus.. its something he wouldn't have really shown off, and he wasn't too keen on making highly visible contact with the Order under Voldemort's watch.

Even Dumbledore was "surprised" as to the form of Snape's patronus.. although I don't think much ever really surprised him.

I liked him and I was glad that he helped Harry so much. One thing I wonder, though...when Ron asked if he had sent the doe, why did he not know the doe was Snape's Patronus? Didn't all the members of the order communicate via patronus? I guess maybe he never had the occasion to communicate with Snape that way. Anyway, overall, I liked Aberforth, but I still prefer Albus.


Another factor as to why he would not have seen the patronus is stated in book 5. Moody shows Harry the picture of the order and says that that was the only time he met Aberforth...

I do like Aberforth. He is uncouth, unambitious but with love. Dumbledore is for everyone and the greater good. But that also makes him slightly detached and withholding. Aberforth is more a heart-on-his-sleeve sort of guy. He cares for those close to him.

I would like to know more about the goats... A treat for Ariana, when she was calm, was to go and feed them...

I liked him! I'm glad we finally got to know more about him, and he seems interesting enough a character. It was brilliant how he saved them from death eaters, and his patronus is a goat! :lol: that was so funny.

I thought he was actually more down to earth than his brother. Albus always craved for something bigger, better, and Aberforth was more dedicated to his family. Albus was very powerful magically, but Aberforth seemed to me more... realistic, in a good way. Although he pretty much gave up on the Order, he was still a good person, and helped most he could. He was refreshing, not a completely new character, but still new, because we learned so much more about him. And I loved how he still has the portrait of his sister on the wall. :)

Aberforth seemed like an actual person, he didnt look like a proper wizard at all, given that he's a bartender, I would have thought that he would have at least some magical advice for Harry. Still, Aberforth did display and show that the House of Dumbledore is much more rich than anybody else thought.

I liked Aberforth. He seemed very down to earth.

I think he kept aloof from Albus because he still blamed Albus for Ariana's death. That was quite a story, and only Harry knew the end of it because he heard Albus' anguish after drinking the potion. I'd like to think that after Harry told Aberforth the truth about that night, he would have forgiven Albus eventually.

I loved him. I thought he was a great addition to the story - and it was interesting to hear his feelings about his brother. :agree:

i thought he was great, but i felt a bit irritated with him for giving up on the order and everything, and believing that voldemort couldn't be stopped or something like that

The Hogs Head Bar, who would have thought that those rumors were true. Yikes! and then there was the hair. I thought that he was in trouble with the Wizengomet? I was also under the impression that he was downright crazy. I didnt think that he was a loving brother and basically a functional human being.

I learned however who he was exactly, but i still dont understand why would he care if so many kids were being ushered out of Hogwarts thru to his bar?
-wouldnt he be helping the children that his brother tryed so hard to protect
-He would be honored by all the parents for helping their children escape

I think Aberforth was another character who seemed "real". The estrangement I had suspected between him and Albus was true (I had suspected that they weren't the best of friends, but cordial), and he seemed more pragmatic than the somewhat idealistic Albus.
In the end, he did just enough to save the day, and the DE's still didn't suspect that he was Albus' brother, or else they would have known the Hog's Head was the place to raid to shut off the flow of resistance fighters into Hogwarts.

I think we all knew the barman was Aberforth, but how did Neville and everyone else find out? And how was Percy in touch with him? I wondered about that.

Oh I really liked Aberforth. Nothing like I thought he was going to be when introduced. I was thinking he was going to be grumpier than he was and maybe a little more like Albus. I really liked how different he was from Albus. I didn't see any similarties besides their physical looks.

Oh yeah and I figured that Aberforth was the barman at the Hog's Head.

yeah Aberforth was one striking charachter in DH, and I wish he had been introduced a bit while earlier...but I absolutley LOVE his grumpiness...irritation...and honesty!

I think he was a fantastic addition to the book. He was grumpy, irritable and frank to the point of cruelty. As a once member of the order of the phoenix, I don't think he ever forgot his righteousness and so he helped Neville when help was needed. Without him, things may have taken a turn for the worse. I also think it's funny how nobody's ever brought up the line where Dumbledore flippantly mentions being " just friendly with the local barmen".

Aberforth is the kind of anti hero the story saw in droves, but he also added so much to the Dumbledore family, and showed perhaps some of it's darker oppressive side, that he was a great, striking addition.

Aberforth's part in DH was brilliant! To me, he is much more outspoken than DD. Plus, I died laughing when told the DEs that is patronus was a goat. :lol:

I've only read the book once, but I have a feeling the whole Aberforth-Goat situation was explained? I just remember not quite understanding the wording of it....

what do you think of the relevation of Aberforth Dumbledore as a character? its the first time we're really meeting him....any notable similarities to Albus DD? except physical ones? Do you actually feel Aberforth was "saner" than Albus? (reference to Ariana..and the circumstances of her death)..why do you think he never revealed himself in Hog's head? why wasn't he a part of the Order of the Pheonix?
discuss everything related to your opinion and doubts about Aberforth in here

aberforth was alot saner than the previous books made him out to be, for someone who doesnt really like his brother why does he live so close to hogwarts and its pretty obivious that he was one who informed dumbledore about meeting and creation of dumbledores army.

aberforth as a small roll in the OftP film, i wonder if they will keep the same actor for the DH film or bringing in someone more famous or will they cut him out very confusing.

I think the fact that Aberforth works in the Hogs Head says a lot about his relationship with his brother. Abe could work in any dive bar in any magical community in the country, he just happens to work in the bar that is a stone's throw from hogwarts, where is older brother is headmaster? Clearly that is not a coincidence.

We also know that DD visited the Hog's Head from time to time. Didn't he say that he goes there when he wants to think? I believe he said something like that at the end of HBP, when Harry questions him on whether or not people would think it is odd that DD goes to the hog's head and doesn't come out for a while. Maybe DD has a habit of going there and possibly confides in Abe.

Abe claims to know DD better than anyone, and he is right. I'm sure DD cared a lot more about what Abe said than a lot of other people. Everyone else thought that DD was a great wizard, he could do no wrong. Obviously, Abe knew the truth. DD was a lot more human than a lot of people thought he was. If he wanted an honest opinion, the only person that he could turn to would have been Abe.

I'm having a had time imagining that Aberforth Dumbledore has been right there all this time! I would of thought that he would have be farther away from Albus. and a bar tender at that!

Aberforth clearly had unresolved issues surrounding his sister. This is maybe why he didn't join the Order the second time. Perhaps he believed that Voldemort was destroyed by a lucky coincedence and this would not occur again, therefore justifying his belief that Voldemort had already won the fight before the Battle of Hogwarts. I still think Albus is the better man for fighting and Aberforth was slightly bitter when to be fair Albus only made one major mistake and tried hard all his life to help people rather than just complaining.
Aberforth wasn't a bad person though, and I'm sure it was he who gave Albus a lot of information regarding plans he overheard in his pub.

Maybe Aberforth was in the order the second time around. He could've left after DD died. He might have felt that DD was there only hope and with him gone, resistance was futile.

I'll be honest; I never thought the hog's head barman was Aberforth! I was surpsrised by it, and by the fact that he kept so close to the school and Albus, even though they weren't on the best terms. Was he perhaps jealous of his brother's position? Or did he want to be close enough to keep an eye on Albus, and make sure he wasn't reverting to his old ways and thoughts?

Personally, I didn't love or hate Aberforth. He was just kind of there for me. I'm glad he helped Harry and friends, but I feel like he was just there as a plot device, not really a character in his own rights. I feel like he was just a viechle to tie up lose ends and make sure Harry could have help when he needed it.

As for him having Dumbledore's eyes...that made me sad. I would've liked Harry seeing the blue eyes in the piece of mirror to remain a mystery forever. But with Aberfoth having blue eyes, it explains it away.

I liked Aberforth. He wasn't quite what I expected him to be, I thought he'd be a bit more like Albus, but he was still an enjoyable character. I think that there's more to him than we see, though. I think that when JKR releases the Encyclopedia sometime in the future, he'll have a very interesting section. I can't wait to see what he did in the past, surely he did more than serve drinks at the bar.

I thought I remembererd this, and I just comfirmed it.

During DD's funeral, Harry looks around and starts noticing people. He sees Madame Rosemerta, and Ministry officials. Then he states that their are people there that he only knows by sight, the first person he mentions is the bartender from the Hogs Head.

I thought that was interesting.

During DD's funeral, Harry looks around and starts noticing people. He sees Madame Rosemerta, and Ministry officials. Then he states that their are people there that he only knows by sight, the first person he mentions is the bartender from the Hogs Head.
Then wouldn't he have known that it was Aberforth? I mean, in the book it says he has eyes just like DD, and he must look at least a little similar to DD since they're brothers.
Harry knew what Aberforth looked like, from the picture Moody showed him in OotP. So why didn't Harry realize that the bartendar was Aberforth?

Then wouldn't he have known that it was Aberforth? I mean, in the book it says he has eyes just like DD, and he must look at least a little similar to DD since they're brothers.
Harry knew what Aberforth looked like, from the picture Moody showed him in OotP. So why didn't Harry realize that the bartendar was Aberforth?

I think that Abe has let himself go over the years. I think that the bartender at the Hogs Head was always somewhat haggered looking. When Harry saw his eyes, thats when he realized who he was.

Harry finds the photo disturbing and so he doesn't give it his full attention and shortly afterwards Molly has her encounter with the boggart, so it's unsurprising that he couldn't remember Aberforth.

I figured Aberforth would be that character we got to know better in DH. I really liked his character. It must have been hard to live in Albus' shadow while they were growing up. He seemed very down to earth, greatly shaken by his sister's death. I'm glad Harry had the chance to tell Aberforth that Albus really did regret their sister's death and that it haunted him until his death. I hope that brings Aberforth some closure.

heck, here's a character I love. We don't get to see much of him, but what we see is such a brilliant and psychologically convincing sketch of a character. He's grumpy and lacks everything that could be called 'charming', but he's got his heart in the right place, and in the midst of all his cynicism and facing hopelessness, he does everything in his power to do the right thing. I actually prefer that from his brother's brand of greatness.

I fully agree! I just loved him. He's grumpy, but he's got the heart. He's the better Dumbledore of the two, because he's got both his feet on the ground. He's like a lot of people who live in remote areas. They seem hostile at first sight, but they'd help you without question if you gain their trust and you need it.

And he's got my favorite line in DH: "Brains like that you could be a Death Eater." :lol:

I think Aberforth never showed up because he was so angry with Albus about Ariana's death, that he didn't want to get involved or related to any of his brother's things....also, he didn't think that those kinds of ideas would someday help defeating LV...dunno...
but I liked him...because he put down the image of Dumbledore-the-hero...and showed a more human part of him..with mistakes and remorse

Aberforth seems to be the down to earth sort compared to Albus, who tended to think big. This allowed him to assess Albus' neglect of Ariana for his dream of the Deathly Hallows with a much cooler head. On the down side, it tends to lead to negativity: thinking the battle could not be won against Voldemort, insisting on taking some Slytherins hostage.

I think Aberforth is a much more practical and 'homey' man than Dumbledore ever would have been. For him, it was about keeping loved and dear ones safe, while Dumbledore, knowing his own greatness, could imagine taking a huge part in worldshattering events. I think that is one of the reasons the brothers rarely spoke anymore, though they were so very, very close.

I think the Aberforth/Albus dynamic is fairly typical for family members caring for an invalid. Aberforth didn't think Albus was doing enough. Albus was (understandably) busy with all the possibilities his own brilliant mind opened up for him, and while he undoubtedly loved Ariana very much, he had a life of his own. Aberforth, being closer to Ariana in age, and having two (?) more years at home with her after Albus started Hogwarts, naturally had a closer relationship with her, and like many carers, resented that other family members (Albus) didn't seem to care for Ariana as much as he did.

Then wouldn't he have known that it was Aberforth? I mean, in the book it says he has eyes just like DD, and he must look at least a little similar to DD since they're brothers.
Harry knew what Aberforth looked like, from the picture Moody showed him in OotP. So why didn't Harry realize that the bartendar was Aberforth?

The photo was 15 years old, Aberforth probably looked a good deal different. Most people change a good amount in 15 years.

I thought the inclusion of Aberforth was great. I was waiting for him to turn up since book 5 (Ch. 16 'The Hog's Head bar...smelled strongly of something that might have been goats', 'The barman...was tall and thin and looked vaguely familiar'). But I never expected him to reveal so much about Dumbledore as a man. To me, Abe seemed to be the black sheep of a strong wizarding family so it was incredible to learn that both had difficult pasts. It was also nice to see that the two could maintain a good relationship - so strong that Abe decided to work next to his brother.

Aberforth was brilliant, he felt like the more humanised version of Albus in a way.

I'm still curious as to what he did with that goat though!

I'm still curious as to what he did with that goat though!
Best not to ask! :eyebrows:

Aberforth was brilliant, he felt like the more humanised version of Albus in a way.


I agree - he was what Albus would have been if he was a bit more down-to-earth. Aberforth also seems fairly talented - not on par with Albus, but not chopped liver either - but he let the experience the world had shown him affect him in different ways than Albus. Albus set out to solve the world's problems. Aberforth had a bit more Slytherin in him - he set out to solve his own problems and stay alive. He was a Gryffindor at heart - he did save Harry and Hogwarts and the DA in DH - but he also managed to keep himself out of the limelight.

I agree - he was what Albus would have been if he was a bit more down-to-earth.
I'd say a lot more down to earth, and also much more cynical. He didn't seem stupid and illiterate in DH, but no one can deny that his pub was disgustingly filthy. I can't think of an example of his talent - can you provide one, please? :)

I'd say a lot more down to earth, and also much more cynical. He didn't seem stupid and illiterate in DH, but no one can deny that his pub was disgustingly filthy. I can't think of an example of his talent - can you provide one, please? :)

He could produce a patronus, and he certainly knew some spells - he liked to duel to solve arguments.

I'd say a lot more down to earth, and also much more cynical. He didn't seem stupid and illiterate in DH, but no one can deny that his pub was disgustingly filthy. I can't think of an example of his talent - can you provide one, please? :)


I know it's not a magical talent but he was able to think quickly when under pressure!

what do you think of the relevation of Aberforth Dumbledore as a character?
I really liked Aberforth, his personality was very interesting. He was funny in an odd sort of way, and he was quite helpful to the trio in a time of great need.

its the first time we're really meeting him....any notable similarities to Albus DD?
He is similar in that he and Albus both believed in fighting against Voldemort, but they were quite different in their approaches. Both were talented in magic, though Aberforth wasn't nearly as talented as Albus.

Do you actually feel Aberforth was "saner" than Albus?
Well, he was more down-to-Earth, or at least that’s the way he appeared to me. Albus definitely had a quirkier personality, while Aberforth was more cynical. Albus was a genius, and with genius comes a little bit of madness.

why do you think he never revealed himself in Hog's head?
I don’t think he had any reason to – he was watching and waiting. I think he didn't want to bring attention to himself.

why wasn't he a part of the Order of the Pheonix?
It could have been due to his estrangement with Albus that he wasn't in the Order of the Phoenix. But just because he wasn't in the Order doesn't mean he wasn't helping them or Harry - he helped in his own way rather than belonging to the organization headed by his brother.

what do you think of the relevation of Aberforth Dumbledore as a character?

I liked him. I'm glad that he wasn't as dimwitted as Dumbledore insinuated. He isn't as brilliant as Albus but from what we've seen in DH, he is clever in his own way. He addresses the trio's insecurities and fears during their very first meeting and demonstrates that he is very sharp and analytical. And we see that he cares for the students despite his rough front since he provided them with food and news.

One thing I forgot to mention was how much I liked his sense of humor! It was quite amusing when he told the Death Eaters his patronus was a goat. The fact that it was a goat was in itself odd, not to mention what on Earth he was doing with those goats when he was arrested!

I'm glad that he wasn't as dimwitted as Dumbledore insinuated.I too liked that he wasn't dumb and illiterate. There are many different forms of intelligence: Albus and Aberforth each displayed different kinds.

I think Aberforth injected a bit of humor into the story and also a bit of mystery what with his eye in the 2 way piece of mirror. That is literally keeping an eye on Harry.

I didn't find him to be a very wise individual, simply normal. However, I think Dumbledore might imagine him as unwise for not making more of his life; he appeared clever enough to do more than run a bar. Nonetheless, he obviously had other interests and running a bar suited him.

He was helpful to the trio and the other students and members of the Order upon their arrival at Hogsmeade. He also did a terrific job protecting the trio when they first arrived. I think Dumbledore would have been proud of his brother's efforts in the end - of course Harry didn't mention it to the portrait or at Kings Cross I don't believe, so perhaps he was not very impressed. But I thought he had been quite gallant in assisting them.

Aberforth was an interesting set of contradictions, in a way. He was jealous of Albus, but listened to him and helped him in the last few years before his death. He also was fiercely independent, and had no issues with bad-mouthing his brother to Harry, Hermione, and Ron. Yet, he was also crucial to the Hogwarts resistance - he saved the trio on two occasions, he saved the Dumbledore's Army trio, and he stood up to the Death Eaters. He even turned a similar blind eye to their "side deals" - something that Voldemort would have killed his DE's over if he found out - as he did to the dodgy dealings of 'Dung and others in his pub.

In the end, I guess one might say he did it all for Ariana. He never forgot her, and that was at once sad and admirable.

I wondered what are the 'inappropriate charms' which Aberforth performed on his goats?

Reminder: whatever speculative answer you come up with for MC2456's question, please make sure that it's family friendly. :)

I would say Alberforth wished for his goats to live long lives since he was fond of them. So he used "extended life" charms on them which added a number of years to their normal life span. While a nice gesture, the Ministry wouldn't likely feel that was ethically appropriate. ;)

Sorry, I just wanted to know what the charms are :D I didn't mean to imply anything...

I like the way both brothers are totally opposite of each other. Also, we don't know too much about their parents. I think Albus took after his father while Aberforth took after his mother. This is just an opinion of course. I like the way Aberforth played the "Devil's Advocate" when Harry and his friends showed up. And I'm not sure how he knew that Harry was right outside his door when the alarm when off. Weren't they under the cloak?

I think Aberforth was a bit that he couldn't understand a great genius.

what do you think of the relevation of Aberforth Dumbledore as a character?
I found it a bit interesting. Chekhov's Gunman. LOL! "That weird barkeep of the Hog's Head." Never thought much of him until DH. Found it pretty cool!

its the first time we're really meeting him....any notable similarities to Albus DD?
Other than possibly appearance, not really. He was on the good side but he kept his mouth shut. I dont really see a lot of similarities between the two.

Do you actually feel Aberforth was "saner" than Albus?
No. He was a bit more down to earth, but he was also a bit bitter and cynical. Sane? No! The things he did with goats are not something a sane man would do.

why do you think he never revealed himself in Hog's head?
I think he didnt need to atleast for a while anyway. He was basically just watching whats going on. Im pretty sure Albus knew about the DA after their meeting in the Hog's Head right away, due to Aberforth's info. I think he more or less relayed information of whats going on in there.

why wasn't he a part of the Order of the Pheonix?
Thats a good question. Perhaps Albus asked him to lay low so to speak and not attract attention to himself?

Why wasn't he a part of the Order of the Pheonix?

He was a part of the Order. The role he played was similiar to Mundungus though.

I think Aberforth never fully got over Ariana's death and Albus' role in it. Also, he understood better than anyone Albus' nature, both the good and the bad, and this was why he wouldn't rave about his brother and do everything he said blindly like everyone else would.

i guess to me it just seems like he almost saner than Albus, but i can see why he would keep under the radar. I bet he was always getting compared to his brother

I think Aberforth never fully got over Ariana's death and Albus' role in it. Also, he understood better than anyone Albus' nature, both the good and the bad, and this was why he wouldn't rave about his brother and do everything he said blindly like everyone else would.

This is true actually and of course this would give him a more measured approach to Dumbledore's plans and theories and what he was about. The confusion and doubt over Adriana would always colour his views.

Aberforth did his bit for the order though. Even if he wasn't necessarily in the inner circle of it. In many ways there was probably no one Dumbledore trusted as much as his brother.

In many ways there was probably no one Dumbledore trusted as much as his brother.

Very true. If there was anyone Albus could trust to give him a frank opinion and not get overawed by him, it was his brother.

Very true. If there was anyone Albus could trust to give him a frank opinion and not get overawed by him, it was his brother.

I definitely agree. If I were Albus, I would never hesitate to ask Aberforth's opinion because I know that he would give a straightforward response. It's part of what makes Aberforth a remarkable character in DH.

I think Aberforth never fully got over Ariana's death and Albus' role in it. Also, he understood better than anyone Albus' nature, both the good and the bad, and this was why he wouldn't rave about his brother and do everything he said blindly like everyone else would.

I could tell he was very fond of his sister. Perhaps he also had the same feeling as Dumbledore, not knowing who it was who cast the spell that killed Ariana.

It had to have been Albus who gave Aberforth the communicating mirror, so in that regard Albus was trusting Aberforth to watch over Harry.

Aberforth is one interesting 'good' character. I liked it that he doesn't stop to think what is right or wrong when it comes to dealing with the DEs (I'm obviously talking about him when he told Harry to keep the DEs' children captive).
Another thing that strikes me as 'interesting' in him, is that he keeps to himself very well. He lives in his own world (i.e his small pub) that he almost doesn't care and resigns to the fact that Voldemort will soon win. In fact, I don't think it would've made much difference to him! :lol:. He'll still continue to sell drinks, put his cat outside in the night and keep to himself. I think I agree with Moody when he says that Aberforth is a strange person.

I like him much more than Albus (whom I'm not really fond of..). He's more emotional, he thinks about other people, he's not a super-genius. In other words, he's much more human, imo.

I like him much more than Albus (whom I'm not really fond of..). He's more emotional, he thinks about other people, he's not a super-genius. In other words, he's much more human, imo.

I would have to disagree, not with your characterization of Aberforth, but with your contrast to Dumbledore. Don't get me wrong, Aberforth and Dumbledore are in stark contrast, but not because one thinks about others and the other doesn't, one is emotional and the other isn't, one is human emotions and the other doesn't, etc.

No, I believe that these characteristics are not just present but the essential components of both characters, but they represent the two fundamentally different approaches to the concept of what is good.

Both characters think about others; Aberforth thinks about other individuals and what would be best for them, while Dumbledore thinks about others as a collective, and considers what is best for them a whole. Aberforth is willing to compromise everybody's personal concept of a good life so that everyone may have a decent life. Dumbledore's approach seems to be more of an "all-or-nothing" one, where on the whole, society is improved.

Both brothers are emotional and human, but once again, it is shown in different ways. Aberforth seems to believe that you are always justified to act on your emotions, as doing so should be the most fundamental definition of what you think is right. Dumbledore, however, acknowledges emotions, and believes that they should be recognized and carefully removed from decisions lest they cloud your judgement.

Neither of them, however, is selfish or inhuman in any way, in my opinion. I think the concept of "the greater good" is one of the central themes in the series, and it is epitomized by the contrast of the two brothers. Who is the "better" person is a very subjective call, and while you call Aberforth a "good" character, there is a fair argument that his actions and influences on Harry were, in fact, "bad."

It had to have been Albus who gave Aberforth the communicating mirror, so in that regard Albus was trusting Aberforth to watch over Harry.
I'd always assumed he got the mirror from Mundungus Fletcher when Harry sees them talking in OOTP. Thats when harry found out hed been stealing Black heirlooms, so i just thought the mirror had been among them. Although Dumbledore would've (id assume) told Aberforth what it was and to keep an eye out.

Both characters think about others; Aberforth thinks about other individuals and what would be best for them, while Dumbledore thinks about others as a collective, and considers what is best for them a whole. Aberforth is willing to compromise everybody's personal concept of a good life so that everyone may have a decent life. Dumbledore's approach seems to be more of an "all-or-nothing" one, where on the whole, society is improved.

Which is why I said Aberforth is more emotional. In Albus' willing to do good for all, some people were sacrificed in the way, (look what he was planning for Harry), he thinks this would rid the world of Voldemort, he even thinks there's a chance Harry might survive, but he still executes his plan, without thinking how Harry might think about this fate.
When the idea was proposed to Aberforth, he puts Harry's safety at the top, and after it, what Harry chooses to do.

I think it was the same for the two of them, with Ariana. Albus didn't want a single girl to stand in his way. Aberforth put his sister's safety and welfare on the top.

I agree with you that there are different approaches to good, but I still think Aberforth was much more considerate of other people than Albus.

Neither of them, however, is selfish or inhuman in any way, in my opinion.

I hope you didn't think I meant Albus was inhuman. It was just my way of saying, Aberforth is much more unGandalf-like than Albus, :p.

Which is why I said Aberforth is more emotional.I think what you mean to say is Aberforth is more prone to letting his emotions influence his actions. As we can see in Order of the Phoenix with Harry's actions, that isn't always that great of a quality.

In Albus' willing to do good for all, some people were sacrificed in the way, (look what he was planning for Harry), he thinks this would rid the world of Voldemort, he even thinks there's a chance Harry might survive, but he still executes his plan, without thinking how Harry might think about this fate.
When the idea was proposed to Aberforth, he puts Harry's safety at the top, and after it, what Harry chooses to do.

But in the long run, Aberforth's choice in the matter, had he had his way with Harry, would have sacrificed many more innocent people than Albus' way. If Harry hadn't acted as Albus had wanted him to, the lives of scores of muggleborns would have been torn apart for the foreseeable future, and possibly for eternity.

The question was not about which brother was willing to sacrifice people, it was about which people each brother was willing to sacrifice, and in the long run, how many.

I think it was the same for the two of them, with Ariana. Albus didn't want a single girl to stand in his way. Aberforth put his sister's safety and welfare on the top.

As Albus, the character as we knew him during the series, regretted these actions and his treatment of the situation, I'm not sure we can really take them into account as part of his character in the series as we knew it.

I agree with you that there are different approaches to good, but I still think Aberforth was much more considerate of other people than Albus.

By now this is merely reinforcing my point, but I think that both brothers were considerate of people, but while Aberforth gave priority to those he knew and could directly help at the sacrifice of many he didn't and couldn't, Albus gave priority to all at the sacrifice of few.

Albus made big mistakes when he made decisions based on emotions.

It was Albus' strong feelings for Grindelwald that blinded him to his faults. It resulted in Ariana's death. The other time that Albus made a decision based on emotions was with the regard to Harry in his 5th year and it ended with Sirius' death. Soon after he put on a cursed ring - another deed based on emotion.

Albus was leader of the group fighting Voldemort. He had far more responsibilities than Aberforth. Difference between a general and soldier I guess.

Albus made big mistakes when he made decisions based on emotions.

It was Albus' strong feelings for Grindelwald that blinded him to his faults. It resulted in Ariana's death. The other time that Albus made a decision based on emotions was with the regard to Harry in his 5th year and it ended with Sirius' death. Soon after he put on a cursed ring - another deed based on emotion.

Right, but this thread is about his brother, not Albus, so I'll quote this and answer on the Albus thread.

Albus was leader of the group fighting Voldemort. He had far more responsibilities than Aberforth. Difference between a general and soldier I guess.I'd say it's more the difference between a general and a conscientious objector.:)


To add to what I have said on Aberforth being just as inconsiderate to others as Albus, I am really not sure that, in Aberforth's opinion, Harry's decision to attempt to save all of the prisoners was a good one. I have to feel that based on what Aberforth said to Harry before letting him into Hogwarts, he would have advised Harry to just get Dobby to save him and not worry about his friends.

But in the long run, Aberforth's choice in the matter, had he had his way with Harry, would have sacrificed many more innocent people than Albus' way. If Harry hadn't acted as Albus had wanted him to, the lives of scores of muggleborns would have been torn apart for the foreseeable future, and possibly for eternity.

I agree with you. I'm aware of the consequences that would've occured if Aberforth had had his way with Harry. But my point, actually, is that he didn't/wouldn't have his way with him. He was concerned about Harry's safety, and thought what he was doing was stupid. But he did let him choose in the end, by himself. He said he didn't think his brother's plan whatever it was, is a good one, but he let Harry do what he wished to do, and even helped him when he saw his resolution.

Albus, on the other hand, didn't even let Harry know what he was planning for him. IMO, he decieved him for so long. He painted a false image in Harry's head, that all he had to do was destroy the Horcruxes and Voldemort would become invulnerable. I think he took advantage of Harry, because he knew, once Harry was that deep in the mission, he'll walk through to the end. I understand that he was thinking of millions of people, but I don't think he had a right to plan a boy's death, without letting him know.

As Albus, the character as we knew him during the series, regretted these actions and his treatment of the situation, I'm not sure we can really take them into account as part of his character in the series as we knew it.

But he does the same thing with Harry! In both cases he only thoght of the 'greater good'. Which isn't necessarily bad, but I don't see how he had changed in this point.

By now this is merely reinforcing my point, but I think that both brothers were considerate of people, but while Aberforth gave priority to those he knew and could directly help at the sacrifice of many he didn't and couldn't, Albus gave priority to all at the sacrifice of few.

I think the reason behind this, is the worlds the two brothers lived in. Aberforth's interaction, I believe, were limited to the customers who frequented his pub. All he had to do, throughout a day, was listen to their stories, the news they discussed. Perhaps a remarkable incident once in a while. In other words, his world was a small one. I don't think he particularly cared for anyone after the death of his sister.

Albus' world was different. He was the Head of the wizarding school, and a secret organization. His position allowed him a lot of interaction with a wide variety if people. He had much mor experience than his brother. It doesn't surprise me that each of them had a different view of the world and its people.

I have to feel that based on what Aberforth said to Harry before letting him into Hogwarts, he would have advised Harry to just get Dobby to save him and not worry about his friends.

I'm not entirely sure about that, :shrug:. That's not the impresion I got. I saw a person who merely cared about Harry, because he thought he stood no chance.

Albus, on the other hand, didn't even let Harry know what he was planning for him. IMO, he decieved him for so long. He painted a false image in Harry's head, that all he had to do was destroy the Horcruxes and Voldemort would become invulnerable. I think he took advantage of Harry, because he knew, once Harry was that deep in the mission, he'll walk through to the end. I understand that he was thinking of millions of people, but I don't think he had a right to plan a boy's death, without letting him know.
But at the same time, I think that Albus' actions were to the benefit of others in ways that Aberforth's wouldn't have been, even in the case of his taking advantage of Harry's nature, and I agree that he did. Albus took the choice largely away from Harry, but in doing so minimized the chance that all those people's lives would fall into ruin. In the end, Harry still had all of the same choices, but he was allowed to make them at all the right times so that his nature would advise him to make the right call. Once again, by fixing Harry's fate as such, he was making it so there was the greatest chance that more people would survive. Perhaps unfair to Harry, but it showed that he thought that the lives of so many witches and wizards deserved the best possible chance for freedom, which is a noble enough justification for me.

But he does the same thing with Harry! In both cases he only thoght of the 'greater good'. Which isn't necessarily bad, but I don't see how he had changed in this point. I don't really see this as a parallel with how he treated Harry at all. Dumbledore's mistake was being negligent of his sister as a sacrifice for getting caught up in his future, and confusing the greater good with exploitation of the weak, confusing Grindelwald's ideals with his own, and in the end he regretted it. I don't think he would ever be so negligent about the life of any people after those events, and I don't think he was ever negligent about Harry. Just how I read it.



I think the reason behind this, is the worlds the two brothers lived in. Aberforth's interaction, I believe, were limited to the customers who frequented his pub. All he had to do, throughout a day, was listen to their stories, the news they discussed. Perhaps a remarkable incident once in a while. In other words, his world was a small one. I don't think he particularly cared for anyone after the death of his sister.

Albus' world was different. He was the Head of the wizarding school, and a secret organization. His position allowed him a lot of interaction with a wide variety if people. He had much mor experience than his brother. It doesn't surprise me that each of them had a different view of the world and its people.I agree, and Aberforth's advice to Harry was largely a reflection of how he himself would have acted, and I think his view of his brother made him want to make absolutely sure that Harry knew his options.



I'm not entirely sure about that, :shrug:. That's not the impresion I got. I saw a person who merely cared about Harry, because he thought he stood no chance.
I realize it is a bold statement, but I think he would have thought the same thing about rescuing his friends from the living room of a manor infested with DE's and Snatchers: that it was a suicide mission. However, we don't really know what his advice would have been, and I would consider it possible that as Harry's actions weren't just following the orders of Albus, Aberforth might well have encouraged them.

I could tell he was very fond of his sister. Perhaps he also had the same feeling as Dumbledore, not knowing who it was who cast the spell that killed Ariana.

This was something that I noticed when both Aberforth and Albus talked about Ariana's death. Both were clearly very sad when they recollected the event, however one thing for me stood out - Aberforth, throughout, seemed more angry than anything when he was talking to the trio in his bedroom, while Albus was the one who seemed to show genuine remorse and sadness when he spoke to Harry and described his fear of Grindlewald.

This got me thinking - we're not told what spells they were using on each other, just that they were duelling violently. However, we do know that to kill you need a fair bit of magical power behind as Crouch Jr tells us in GoF - we know that Albus and Grindlewald have this level of magical power, but Aberforth (who, if I remember correctly, is about 14 or 15 at this time) probably doesn't, and I suspect that you can't actually execute an Avada Kedavra on rage alone and it kills someone.

Therefore, this raises my point - does Aberforth know, whether deep down or on the surface, that he couldn't have been the one who killed Ariana, but he knows therefore that it has to have been either Albus or Grindlewald - and while he doesn't exactly see Grindlewald often, he and Albus are in occasional contact at the very least? And, on the flipside, does Albus realise that it had to be either he or Grindlewald who killed Ariana - and maybe, just maybe (subconsciously or not) he knows that it was his curse that killed her?

This is just my theory, by the way - it seems to explain why the two brothers seem to have differing feelings of their sister's death.

Is it just magical power involved with the unforgiveable curses, or is it the feeling of anger and hate included? Because Aberforth was definitely angry at Grindewald and at Albus.

Is it just magical power involved with the unforgiveable curses, or is it the feeling of anger and hate included? Because Aberforth was definitely angry at Grindewald and at Albus.

I don't think anger is enough - see OoTP when Harry tries to use the Cruciatus Curse on Bellatrix and it doesn't make much impact, even though he's clearly angry at her.

I think (don't quote me) that to be able to pull off an Unforgivable, you have to have a fair amount of magical power and I also think you have to be able to close off your emotions other than the desire to really mean it (in Bella's own words). I don't think Aberforth would have been able to do so at that point. That said, I can definitely see him trying to kill - but if it failed I imagine he would have had to resort to a Stunner or Impediment Jinx or some other non-lethal way of getting Albus and Grindlewald.

Then, is it possible, that the combination of different spells colliding in mid-air could have cause Arianna to die? Not just one particular curse.

Somehow I cannot see anyone of them using a AK on each other (probably except Grindelwald). There is no reason why Albus and Aberforth wanted to kill their own siblings, as angry as they are. But maybe there's a spell that smashed something, like a pillar, or ceiling that killed Ariana?!

winky45

I think it's interesting to note (from a psychological point of view) that Aberforth was the 'middle child'.

I think it was the psychiatrist Adler who suggested birth order had a significant impact on personality. It's sometimes known as 'middle child syndrome'. From what I can remember, the first born sets the standards, often high (Albus), the youngest one is the baby of the family and is typically spoiled (Ariana), and thus the middle child is (unintentionally) neglected.

I give you this quote from a (random) online article on the subject:
"Oldest and youngest children can usually find reasons to be glad about their place in the family. Not so middle children. They often aren't the biggest and strongest, they aren't the babies who get away with murder, they aren't really anything special, at least in their own minds. Sometimes they feel invisible."

If anyone is interested, you can read about firstborns here
http://www.drspock.com/article/0,1510,5551,00.html

and middle children here
http://www.drspock.com/article/0,1510,5547,00.html

The articles say some interesting things about how first-borns always break new ground and do everything first, which often puts the first-born in the family under lots of pressure to be the best and to succeed (ALBUS anyone?) In turn this can make relationships between any younger siblings strained, as the middle child feels inadequate and the elder feels they must lead the way.

As a middle child myself, I find this psychology stuff fascinating!

Ariana wasn't spoiled. She was frail due to what happened to her at the age of 6. She was attacked by several Muggle boys for performing magic. This caused her to have outbreaks of magic when she least expected it. We have three teenagers all dueling each other. Ariana tried to stop the fighting, and somehow she was killed. If no one used a killing curse, then I wonder if a spell did manage to richocete around the room and cause something to collapse onto her. Of course we will never know for sure. But, I think that was what Jo intended, remorse for the three involved, Albus, Grindelwald, and Aberforth.

Somehow I cannot see anyone of them using a AK on each other (probably except Grindelwald). There is no reason why Albus and Aberforth wanted to kill their own siblings, as angry as they are. But maybe there's a spell that smashed something, like a pillar, or ceiling that killed Ariana?!


Hmm, good point. I never thought of that, although the way Aberforth described it it was like they suddenly realised she was dead - had something fallen/smashed and killed her, he may have chosen to point that out.

Albus also mentions that one of them "cast a spell that killed my sister" - that was what he feared Grindlewald knew.

Of course, there could be other ways to kill magically other than the AK and I'm sure Grindlewald and Albus probably knew them. But I do think Grindlewald was dueling to kill from the word go, as was Aberforth, and I think once Albus realised the stakes he wouldn't have been afraid to kill either - and in the heat of the moment, maybe the thought that he could hit either Aberforth or Ariana who was just standing by never occurred to him?

I always had a soft spot for old Aberforth. I'm an only child but I can empathize and put myself in his position and see where he is coming from very easily. Imagine, your brother is Albus Dumbledore! :lol: As Elphias Dodge says, that's an occupational hazard of being his friend, let alone his younger brother. I'm sure Aberforth always felt inferior to his brother to some extent and must have felt overshadowed by his brother's accomplishments. A lot like Ron actually.