Hermione crying.

I was personally surprised she didn't show that kind of emotion in the earlier boos when she was younger and under presser. But the fact that she cried so much when she was an adult was unbelievable seeing how she hardly cried (tat we knew about that is) in the earlier books when a person sensitivity is really high.

I was personally surprised she didn't show that kind of emotion in the earlier boos when she was younger and under presser. But the fact that she cried so much when she was an adult was unbelievable seeing how she hardly cried (tat we knew about that is) in the earlier books when a person sensitivity is really high.

Eh...she, Harry, and Ron faced horrors like no other in DH. In earlier books, their stresses were about relatively minor ordeals. But in DH, she's on the run, she modified her parents' memories so they forget she ever existed, the trio is being hounded by Death Eaters, her boyfriend runs out on them and in all possibility could have been killed, she and Harry have a near-fatal battle with Nagini, she gets tortured by Bellatrix to the point of unconsciousness, and then comes the battle at the end.

She was under unbelievable stress, and crying is normal, and most probably healthy. She wasn't an emotional wreck, but at times she simply couldn't endure the enormity of what they were doing, what was happening around them. Did you really expect her to not be overwhelmed at times by their mission and the trials they endured?

I didn't find her crying annoying in the slightest. I did notice that there was more of it than before, but the circumstances were much greater, and the risks much higher. And it wasn't as if she collapsed into hysterics and gave up when she cried, she still thought things through. For a 17-year-old girl, she withstood a lot, so crying a few times was perfectly acceptable IMO. Hermione is tough, but I think her tears are a way of showing her other dimensions. Hermione had always been more weepy, than say Ginny was, but I don't think it makes her weaker or less apt to fight or anything, it was just a way of dealing with all those turbulent emotions.

Well, I mean, she has a lot of excuses to cry in the story, so it didn't really bother me. She's going through really tough times and all.

Up until DH, I didn't find her crying excessive. However, I did find her crying a little over the top in DH as a male reading the book. However, if I were Harry in their situation, I could probably understand it. I'm not saying I still wouldn't be annoyed, but I may feel more sympathetic.

-JR

COS
- Can't think of any
Maybe I dont quite remember but didn't she cry when she got called a Mudblood??

Anyway I did notice she was crying a lot but I was used to it. Crying is just Hermione's way of letting out her feelings. I don't have a problem with it at all. Plus she always had a good reason for crying. Not to mention pretty much everyone had a crying scene in this book. Harry and Ron both did. The whole mood of the 7th book was death and war. It would be hard not to cry at some points...

Maybe I dont quite remember but didn't she cry when she got called a Mudblood??

Anyway I did notice she was crying a lot but I was used to it. Crying is just Hermione's way of letting out her feelings. I don't have a problem with it at all. Plus she always had a good reason for crying. Not to mention pretty much everyone had a crying scene in this book. Harry and Ron both did. The whole mood of the 7th book was death and war. It would be hard not to cry at some points...

Hermione didn't cry at being called a Mudblood. It caused an incident, Fred & George lunging toward Malfoy & being held back, Alicia countering vocally, and Ron cursing Malfoy with his broken wand. But no mention then, or at Hagrid's, of Hermione crying.

I agree with you that Hermione always had a good reason for crying. Overwhelming emotion is difficult (and unhealthy) to hold in. It was appropriate for her to cry when Ron left, when Harry was seriously injured and delerious after they narrowly escaped from Voldemort, and after being tortured for an extended period of time. It's also important to remember that even during torture, Hermione kept her wits with her answers, which Harry tells her was amazing under the circumstances.

I did think she was tough but i understood why she was crying alot in DH because she was scared, upset about Ron, upset about her parents, and trying to think of Horcrux locations and ways to destroy them! she was under alot of stress!!

I noticed that, how she was always crying in DH. While it is justifiable, and while she is an extremely tough character, it just annoyed me a little bit. I don't think that she should've cried so much.

I think it just makes DH even more dramatic. Hermione was like the glue holding them together and when she cries you know something is really bad or something terrible happened.

Hermione didn't cry at being called a Mudblood. It caused an incident, Fred & George lunging toward Malfoy & being held back, Alicia countering vocally, and Ron cursing Malfoy with his broken wand. But no mention then, or at Hagrid's, of Hermione crying.

Haha ok thanks! It's been a long time since I've read CoS...

Hermione didn't cry at being called a Mudblood. It caused an incident, Fred & George lunging toward Malfoy & being held back, Alicia countering vocally, and Ron cursing Malfoy with his broken wand. But no mention then, or at Hagrid's, of Hermione crying.

Part of that was because she didn't know what it meant. She understood it was rude, but nothing beyond that.

I completely understand why Hermione would cry in hbp and in dh. In hbp she is annoyed by ron ignoring her slight hints toward her liking him. In dh, again she is annoyed that ron is basically acting spoiled. Her crying is not annoying, unlike some males who disagree. If you had read from a females point of veiw, you too would completely understand. P.S Emma Watson is a very wonderful actress and portrays Hermione even in ruff emotional scenes

When it came to difficult and frustrating moments during the horcrux search Hermione was always level headed, enough so at one point to save Harry from Bathilda Bagshot/Nagini. It was only Ron's self centered behavior and treatment of her that had her crying.

Hermione cried in DH and HBP because she was ignored by Ron and was under stress most of the time.I don't think its strange for girls to cry when ignored.
I didn't find it as annoying.

Maybe I dont quite remember but didn't she cry when she got called a Mudblood??

Yes, she did cry at that incident. But only in the movie :). In the movie she was crying at Hagrid's hut. In the book, IIRC, neither she nor Harry did fully understand the word. It was Ron and the others who acted to the word :).

Crying is just Hermione's way of letting out her feelings.

You make a very good point here :tu:. Hermione had two boys for friends. And I think boys in general are not good at understanding other's feelings very well. And from what we see, both Ron and Harry never understood Hermione's feelings. At some points she had Ginny to fill in with her worries, feelings, etc. Like in GoF, when she told her about her feelings toward Krum. But unfortunately Hermione did not have Ginny around all the time, nor was she allowed to share all secrets with her, especially the ones related to Harry and Voldemort's secrets. So sometimes, I think crying was her only way to let her feelings out as you've pointed out.

Other than that, I don't really find Hermione's frequent crying in DH, suprising or annoying in anyway. Females in the book from the weakest to the toughest have cried at one point or another. From Moaning Myrtle to Bellatrix and Mcgonagall.
And IMO, Hermione was not a tough girl. She had put a strong face in many occasions. But at some points I think it was difficult for her to keep that face. In DH she was still young and unexperienced, yet she had a great burden on her shoulders. Their mission was probably more difficult than many adults'. Moreover, she had Ron and Harry who depended on her skill and magical ability. It was a great mission for a teen in her age and experience no matter how skilled. I think in DH it was the first time she had a proper look on how hard life was. People dying everywhere, she was being hunted by the Ministry, her parents were continents away, and she had no chance to hear from them, not to mention that she had modified their memories so they wouldn't remember or recognize her. A year before she was safely protected in a castle the following she spent nights in a tent with very simple protections around her. IMO, that was too much for her to take at once, and I think it was very expected for her to break down at some points.

I never thought that she cried too much, she goes through a lot of stuff that no one should be shameful for crying at. She does cry a lot but each moment is deserving of an emotional response, whether it be crying or whatever.

I don't think she cried excessively. One must consider her state of mind too, and the way she is always thinking about others and feeling for the victims.
Not to mention what she has done with her parents. Modifying their memory was a seriously brave thing to do, but it also left her very alone. It is fightening and a lonely thought that your parents don't know you, and if you die or something happens to you they won't even remember you. SO she's alone in that aspect. Then people die, like Moody whom she thought was tough, and get injured.
Then Ron starts to act like a prat, thinking only about himself and not a thought that others are in danger too, and brooding over lack of food and being a jerk to them. I believe Hermione thought Ron and her will be a comfort for each-other, that they'll be helping Harry together, and everything just turn around, Ron walks out on them, and she is left even more alone.
I don't think she cries too much, and she's pretty on top of everything either way.

I think she cried a lot in the previous books, so her crying in the Deathly Hallows is pretty consistent with her character. However, she shows much more strength and maturity in DH, as opposed to earlier books when she cried over somewhat trivial matters. For instance, in GoF, when Ron and Harry reconciled, she hysterically burst into tears, prompting a shocked and confused reaction from the boys. Also, in HBP, after Ron mocked her in class, she was shown crying and wiping her eyes on her pencil case. These incidents are presented in a somewhat comical manner. Not so in the DH, when all the crying is completely justifiable and occurs for very serious reasons.

Incidentally, part of the reason why Hermione cries so often is because she is a deeply empathetic person who is affected by the pain another is suffering, even if that person is not close to her. For example, she cried over Ariana's tragic story, as well as Kretcher's. She even attempted to embrace Kretcher. This empathy is not a weakness on her part, but an attribute. Harry and Ron are also caring and sympathetic people, but aren't comfortable with expressing their feelings so openly or attempting to console someone they barely know. They're more emotionally reserved than Hermione in cases like these, but that doesn't prove that Hermione lacks strength.

Hermione has every reason to cry, as what she goes through in DH should traumatize anyone who truly calls themselves a human being. The chapter "Malfoy Manor" rivals anything done by Stephen King in its level of intensity, hopelessness, despair and pure terror. The first time I read that, I was in a cold sweat, constantly repositioning my body and shaking with dread. :eeep: You really do feel as if all is lost once you reach the point where Bellatrix is using Crucio on poor Hermione and Ron tearfully loses all hope. Rowling should become a horror writer, as this chapter proves she can definitely create genuine tension and terror.

yeah its abit annoying, but its a life and death situation and i guess she feels like she could die anytime soon because dumbledore's not there to help them, or anyone, really!

Poor thing, of course she is allowed to cry sometimes. Yes, Hermione is tough, but she has nearly not cried at all (at least not much) trough the books so perhaps this was the time to let it all out? And besides, all of those times she cried I thought she had a pretty good reason.

I think she cried a lot in the previous books, so her crying in the Deathly Hallows is pretty consistent with her character. However, she shows much more strength and maturity in DH, as opposed to earlier books when she cried over somewhat trivial matters. For instance, in GoF, when Ron and Harry reconciled, she hysterically burst into tears, prompting a shocked and confused reaction from the boys.
There's nothing in the book that implies there was anything hysterical about Hermione's reaction. It simply states she burst into tears. And the boys' confusion is because they repress their own emotions.

Also, in HBP, after Ron mocked her in class, she was shown crying and wiping her eyes on her pencil case. These incidents are presented in a somewhat comical manner. Not so in the DH, when all the crying is completely justifiable and occurs for very serious reasons.
Hermione is certain to be taking Ron's mocking very personally at this point. It's not something minor, there have been indications on both sides that they have feelings for each other, and Ron's mocking comes from his own insecurities -- but it was a very hurtful thing for him to do. Hermione's reaction was normal.

Incidentally, part of the reason why Hermione cries so often is because she is a deeply empathetic person who is affected by the pain another is suffering, even if that person is not close to her. For example, she cried over Ariana's tragic story, as well as Kretcher's. She even attempted to embrace Kretcher. This empathy is not a weakness on her part, but an attribute. Harry and Ron are also caring and sympathetic people, but aren't comfortable with expressing their feelings so openly or attempting to console someone they barely know. They're more emotionally reserved than Hermione in cases like these, but that doesn't prove that Hermione lacks strength.
Agree completely with you here.

There's nothing in the book that implies there was anything hysterical about Hermione's reaction. It simply states she burst into tears. And the boys' confusion is because they repress their own emotions.


Is that the incident after the first task we're talking about?
I think the boys' confusion comes from the fact that they didn't understand emotions as girls do. And the book shows how Ron and Harry were usually wrong about grils' feelings. They're confused in that situation, mainly because they don't understand the effect of their fight on Hermione. To them it was a small thing and had passed. To her it was, her best friend and the boy she likes are fighting. She feels that Harry needs her company, because of what's been going on then. Yet she has feelings for Ron. She's torn between the two things. And feels that neither of them could estimate her situation, imo.

It might have been repetitive to read but Hermoine had plenty of reasons to cry. She was going through so much at the time and just think of what she's already been through. She chose to aid Harry but the sheer magnitude of what she was up against, the things she had to do for her family and all of that she's done in the past... I could see why she cried.

I might be unobservant, but I think that Hermione didn't cry too much, and when ever she did, I believe she had a good reason to. When Ron left, esp. She has feelings for him, and she thinks (practically knows) that he has the same feelings for her. But then he just up and leaves, and his last words to her are "I get it. You chose him". So now he's gone, and he's made her feel split between her best friend/surrogate brother, and the man she loves (let's face it, they loved each other, even then). She's split and she might even wish that she had chosen Ron over Harry, but then she'll feel guilty about thinking that. Who wouldn't feel horrible about that. I'd cry. When it comes to the other times, she was facing life or death situations, it's the kind of thing that your reaction is almost out of your control.

Great...now I want to cry a little. :upset:

I might be unobservant, but I think that Hermione didn't cry too much, and when ever she did, I believe she had a good reason to.

I agree - I didn't really notice her cry - I know she did, it just didn't seem out of place to me.
If you think about it she has sent her parents away (who don't remember her), she is on the run as a muggle born, she is involved in a dangerous task that I believe would make Moody blanch and she is as frustrated, tired and hungry as the other two. Not to mention she is only seventeen.
And when Ron walks out i think it all got too much for her, think how demotivating that would be! And she was left behind with "i don't like girls crying" Harry, who is not the most sensitive when it comes to emotional understanding of girls. (I know he is only 17 - but he was all she had)

She's a girl. It's to be expected.

She's a girl. It's to be expected.

Just like having no sensitivity, flaring up at the slightest thing and an unwillingness to talk things out is to be expected from Ron and Harry.:D

She did cry a lot. As I was reading the book I remember I kept trying to predict subconsciously whenever she was going to start crying again after the umpteenth time XD But it didn't bother me at all. They went through quite a lot after all.

She's a girl. It's to be expected.You better not let your mom and/or your girlfriend hear that. :lol:

You better not let your mom and/or your girlfriend hear that. :lol:

Haha, I love how baldly he says it too, so nonchalant :D.

Anyway, Hermione generally cries under severe emotional distress, weeping especially when Ron leaves because at that point, there's the possibility she could never see him again.

I agree - I didn't really notice her cry - I know she did, it just didn't seem out of place to me.
If you think about it she has sent her parents away (who don't remember her), she is on the run as a muggle born, she is involved in a dangerous task that I believe would make Moody blanch and she is as frustrated, tired and hungry as the other two. Not to mention she is only seventeen.
And when Ron walks out i think it all got too much for her, think how demotivating that would be! And she was left behind with "i don't like girls crying" Harry, who is not the most sensitive when it comes to emotional understanding of girls. (I know he is only 17 - but he was all she had)

I totally agree. It was trying times. Though I don't think that Harry is a "I don't like girls crying" like if a girl cries for any reason, he's annoyed. I think he sees it as, if a girl doesn't cry at everything *coughChocough*, then he sees her as pretty strong, but when it comes to Hermione crying, he understands she's in pain and he wishes he knew exactly what to do. I think that's why he likes a girl who isn't weepy. He's a guy (not trying to sound sexist) and he's not exactly sure how to properly help an upset girl.

BTW, in DH Hermione is actually 18. I guess the cutoff date for a student to attend Hogwarts is that they have to be 11 by September 1st. Hermione's birthday is September 19, 1979. So she just missed the cutoff date when she was 11, so September 1, 1991, she was 11 going on 12. Anyhoo

BTW, in DH Hermione is actually 18. I guess the cutoff date for a student to attend Hogwarts is that they have to be 11 by September 1st. Hermione's birthday is September 19, 1979. So she just missed the cutoff date when she was 11, so September 1, 1991, she was 11 going on 12. Anyhoo

Yes - I forgot she was slightly older. It was just a humorous stab at Harry - I do think he is like most other boys - scared when a girl cries because he doesn't know what to do.
Hermione is no exception, Harry didn't want to talk about Ron, so she had no choice but to bottle up her feelings, which is hard for a girl to do. I think Hermione probably really needed an emotional outlet, and without even her parents to turn to - I think she was more than justified to spend the whole time crying. But she didn't so I can't condemn her for reacting in the most normal and I believe quite restrained way.

Yes - I forgot she was slightly older. It was just a humorous stab at Harry - I do think he is like most other boys - scared when a girl cries because he doesn't know what to do.
Hermione is no exception, Harry didn't want to talk about Ron, so she had no choice but to bottle up her feelings, which is hard for a girl to do. I think Hermione probably really needed an emotional outlet, and without even her parents to turn to - I think she was more than justified to spend the whole time crying. But she didn't so I can't condemn her for reacting in the most normal and I believe quite restrained way.

Besides what's wrong with crying? Even Harry a few times in the story has cried. To cry is an expression of emotion, and to feel emotion is to be human. :D :) :lol: :err: :( :upset, etc.

She cries too much.

She cried when Ron didn't ask her to the Yule Ball (why couldn't she ask him?), then cried when Ron left their camp, then sulked afterwards.

I bet when they got married, she had him well under the thumb

She cries too much.

She cried when Ron didn't ask her to the Yule Ball (why couldn't she ask him?), then cried when Ron left their camp, then sulked afterwards.

I bet when they got married, she had him well under the thumb

She didn't cry when Ron didn't ask her. She was definitely angry and disappointed, but it was a warmer anger. She was more likely to yell than cry at that point. She cried after Ron basically ruined her evening by sulking about Krum the entire time and made mad accusations at her about sabotaging Harry's chances for the cup.

She cried in the movie and specifically said that he should have asked her out. She had to have known that flirting around with Krum would cause Ron to get jealous. She knew Ron was shy and a bit dozy. It wouldn't have taken much for her to simply say privately to him "How about you and me going to the ball together?"

It wouldn't have taken much for her to simply say privately to him "How about you and me going to the ball together?"

And since when have girls or women been simple? :D

And since when have girls or women been simple?

Or logical.

Nah. It's all part of Hermione's character. She's one of my favorite characters, and the crying didn't change that.

And since when have girls or women been simple? :D

Never, because then guys would actually understand us. ;)

And I think when it comes to the Yule ball, that was a point when Ron realizes his feelings for Hermione go a tad deeper than friendship, and at that point they'd been friends for about 3 years. And for Ron at that point it's hard because of that and because he doesn't quite know how to deal with these feelings for Hermione, and there's his fear of not being good enough that we see in plain view in book 7.

Anyhoo back to Hermione & crying.

I understand women.

But Hermione's crying was really her own fault. Then again, it might have been hormonal.

She cried in the movie and specifically said that he should have asked her out. She had to have known that flirting around with Krum would cause Ron to get jealous. She knew Ron was shy and a bit dozy. It wouldn't have taken much for her to simply say privately to him "How about you and me going to the ball together?"

The thread discussion, though, is about what's in the books, not the movie.

Hermione didn't cry because of the Yule Ball in the book at any point. Further, no one knew Hermione's date was Viktor Krum until she showed up with him. Ron's behaviour the whole time was completely rude and mean-spirited towards Hermione, but there were no tears. None.

She and Ron had a "blazing row" at the entrance to the common room after the Ball, she was angry, but there were no tears. Also, even Harry thought Hermione was right about that, and Ron had missed the point entirely.

then cried when Ron left their camp, then sulked afterwards.

Ron and Hermione were a couple by DH. It would be understandable that she would take Ron's leaving personally, particularly after she had gone out to follow him, to get him to come back. And it's not like he didn't hear her, because after he comes back he admits he did. And they're all very young at 17, and under a considerable amount of stress because of the war. Of course she cried, she was hurt very deeply.

I would say even getting angry without tears after the Yule Ball was excessive and unnecessary. Like I said, she could have asked him out, and I think it would have been very unlikely that tears were entirely absent if two 17 year olds, particular one male and one female were having a "blazing row". It might not have been described in the book, but it's reasonable to presume it would have happened.

I would say even getting angry without tears after the Yule Ball was excessive and unnecessary. Like I said, she could have asked him out.

She asked him to Slughorn's party - after two years of waiting for him to make a move, and what did he do? - he got off with someone else.

I think her tears in DH were a lot to do with all the bottled up frustration she felt against Ron, and his abandonment was just the last straw.

I can understand the DH tears. It was war and for all she knew, he may have been dead.

But the Lavender thing may have just been his way of making her jealous. Love after all, is a battlefield. It wasn't serious. Lavender meant little or nothing to him.

I would say even getting angry without tears after the Yule Ball was excessive and unnecessary. Like I said, she could have asked him out

Technically Ron got angry first. Rather than admit his jealousy over Viktor, he instead inadvertently insulted Hermione (by implying Krum was only interested in Hermione because of her closeness to Harry). It was only after that that Hermione got angry.

Technically Ron got angry first. Rather than admit his jealousy over Viktor, he instead inadvertently insulted Hermione (by implying Krum was only interested in Hermione because of her closeness to Harry). It was only after that that Hermione got angry.

I think Hermione was smart enough to figure out what Ron was really angry about. She should have known that he has feelings for her, and that's why he's lashing out. I'm sure women, even girls, can pick up those signals, or rather...I hope they can.

But the Lavender thing may have just been his way of making her jealous. Love after all, is a battlefield. It wasn't serious. Lavender meant little or nothing to him.

Just a way for him to perfect his technique. Plus since he married Hermione, she would have been his only other girlfriend ever.

I never considered she would think Ron was dead - I assumed she and Harry just believed he went home - Harry looks for him on the Marauders map after Christmas. I never thought there was a chance Ron might be dead. Hmmm must re-read with this in mind.

I can understand the DH tears. It was war and for all she knew, he may have been dead.

But the Lavender thing may have just been his way of making her jealous. Love after all, is a battlefield. It wasn't serious. Lavender meant little or nothing to him.

I think that crying is a normal reaction for any emotional situation. Ron's relationship with Lavender was not serious, but Hermione couldn't know that at the time. She was still hurt and angry at him because she had taken the initiative at that point to ask him to Slughorn's party. Then he was angry with her all of a sudden and she didn't know why and then she walks in to find him and Lavender wrapped around each other like eels. I understand her tears completely - that was very painful for her and it was only exacerbated by not knowing why Ron got angry with her to begin with. From Hermione's perspective, it would have appeared that Ron simply was not interested in her. Of course, that was all eventually cleared up, but that was much later.

Ron and Hermione both made mistakes in the process of becoming a couple - all of which were natural and understandable given their ages and the circumstances at the time, IMO. They didn't mean to, but they hurt each other with some of the things they did. Most of that was due to misunderstanding and they eventually cleared those issues up, but that doesn't mean it wouldn't hurt at the time. Hermione crying in those situations makes perfect sense to me - that was her outlet for emotion. I don't see that as a bad thing - it's certainly better that keeping it all pent up until she exploded, IMO.

In defence of Ron, Hermione was, personality wise, a bit up-tight. She probably wouldn't have agreed to some smooching, so he was desperate and needed a release. Lavender came along at the right time and right place.

Just a way for him to perfect his technique. Plus since he married Hermione, she would have been his only other girlfriend ever.

I never considered she would think Ron was dead - I assumed she and Harry just believed he went home - Harry looks for him on the Marauders map after Christmas. I never thought there was a chance Ron might be dead. Hmmm must re-read with this in mind.

That makes sense though. Ron never did show up on the Marauder's Map so they knew that he didn't go back to Hogwarts. They also knew that the Weasleys were being watched closely, Death Eaters had the run of things, dementors were roaming around, etc... They had no way of knowing if Ron made it home safely. The possibility of him being captured and/or killed was very real. Harry doesn't think much about it because he was angry at Ron for leaving and angry at Dumbledore for not giving him more information, but I think Hermione would have been very aware of that.

In defence of Ron, Hermione was, personality wise, a bit up-tight. She probably wouldn't have agreed to some smooching, so he was desperate and needed a release. Lavender came along at the right time and right place.

I would disagree with that - it was Hermione who leaped into his arms and snogged him senseless in the middle of the final battle after all. ;) Hermione always struck me as a very passionate person, albeit a private one. She wouldn't want to snog in a public place - like the common room or Great Hall - like Lavender did, but I don't think she would have objected to snogging in private. Ron didn't really like all the public displays either - that was something that annoyed him after a while. So I wouldn't say that issue was that Ron didn't think Hermione didn't want to snog at all. I think it was more personal in that he didn't believe she would want to snog with him because he didn't believe he could compare to someone like Krum.

That was a complicated situation, IMO. Ginny had made Ron feel bad with her taunts about him having no experience, but there was also the claim that Hermione had kissed Krum. Apart from believing that she had experience where he did not, there is also the fact that Hermione had always insisted that she and Krum were never anything more than friends. If what Ginny said was true, then Hermione had been lying to him. Ron's low self-esteem was also a factor - if Hermione's relationship with Krum had been that serious, then he couldn't believe that he had any chance with her because he didn't feel he could compare to someone like Krum. All of that came to a head after that Quidditch match when Hermione inadvertently implied that she didn't think Ron could play well without Felix Felicis - I'm sure that was not her intention, but that was how it came out. That was another blow to his ego. Lavender came along at the right time to soothe his ego - she had been flirting with him and complimenting him and that made him feel better.

However, the situation was a result of mistakes made by both of them. Hermione could have been less cautious in guarding her feelings for Ron - a little flirting to give him a clue how she felt would have helped. Likewise, Ron could have gone to Hermione and talked to her about what Ginny said and gotten her side of the story instead of just losing his temper and not speaking to her. It was a misunderstanding all around, but it was one that could have been avoided if they'd both simply been more open with each other. But I think their mistakes are understandable because their was a lot at stake. Neither of them wanted to lose their friendship and they were afraid to be open about their feelings because of that. The situation with Lavender was a learning experience for both of them because they realized that not being open about their feelings could also result in them losing their friendship. There is a big difference in how they interact with each other after all of that was resolved.

In any case, I think it is completely understandable that Hermione cried because of all that. It was a painful experience - not only with Ron's mistakes, but also her own. Accepting that you're heart has been broken because of a mistake you made is also painful and I think tears would be understandable for that as well.

I can understand the DH tears. It was war and for all she knew, he may have been dead.

But the Lavender thing may have just been his way of making her jealous. Love after all, is a battlefield. It wasn't serious. Lavender meant little or nothing to him.

Sorry, but no. The "Lavender thing" was Ron's way of making a point to Ginny (and himself) that he could have a "girlfriend" if he wanted to. The fact that Lavender had been crushing on him gave him an easy way to do that, he didn't have to make an effort to get her attention or work at a relationship. Unfortunately for Ron, it wasn't as easy as he thought it would be.

I don't think Ginny was the primary motivation. No doubt her comments hurt his feelings and made him think that he needed to prove his manliness, but Lavender was just....there, and so she became his temporary girlfriend. If he was a realistic character, the Hermione/Viktor thing would be the most pressing issue on his mind.

I don't think Ginny was the primary motivation. No doubt her comments hurt his feelings and made him think that he needed to prove his manliness, but Lavender was just....there, and so she became his temporary girlfriend. If he was a realistic character, the Hermione/Viktor thing would be the most pressing issue on his mind.

Actually I said he was proving something to Ginny and himself. Harry had to get between them, they already were firing spells from their wands. Ron questions Ginny's dating habits, and Ginny says Ron never kissed anyone but his Auntie Muriel, and Ron turns maroon with anger and embarassment. Then Ginny brings up how Ron looks at Fluer at the Burrow, hoping she'll kiss him on the cheek and how pathetic it is. She also says if Ron did some snogging himself he wouldn't be so judgemental about everyone else. And yes, Ginny mentions Harry snogged Cho and Hermione snogged Viktor -- but Harry never tells Ron if he thinks it's true, they get interrupted by needing to give the password to the Fat Lady.

I think if Ginny hadn't been provoked by Ron and vice versa, Ron never would have felt the need to "prove" anything. He never liked Lavender -- she was, as you say, conveniently there and willing.

But back on topic, Hermione only cries about Ron and Lavender once -- at least Harry thinks she does -- after Ron & Lavender burst into the classroom where Hermione & Harry had been talking. After Ron shows his usual tact, and Hermione sets the birds on him, Harry thinks he hears a sob as she quicky leaves the room. That's it, no real drama there, just hurt feelings. And she never cries about it again although it continues to bother her.

I'd call setting magical birds upon someone followed by sobbing to be dramatic.

I'd call setting magical birds upon someone followed by sobbing to be dramatic.

Considering the spells she could have used, I don't think it was dramatic. A bat-bogey hex would have been dramatic. Changing him into a toad would have been dramatic. Sending birds to peck at him? Not so much. Harry has Hedwig peck the hands of Hermione & Ron to get them to write back in OotP --do you think that was dramatic as well? And the book says Harry thought he heard a sob, he didn't really know. Regardless, totally understandable in my opinion.

I'd put my trust in Harry's hearing. If he heard a sob, it's reasonably to assume that's what she was doing.

I think Ron and Hermione both share equal fault for not getting together sooner. But perhaps it worked out better that they waited to admit their feelings for each other.

As for Hermione crying in DH, I can somewhat understand it. She's a very analytical person and in a time of war things are very unorderly and hectic.

I'd put my trust in Harry's hearing. If he heard a sob, it's reasonably to assume that's what she was doing.

The real point is, do you think it was reasonable under the circumstances?

The real point is, do you think it was reasonable under the circumstances?

No, not really. At the point Ron started smooching Lavender, Hermione hadn't really made a move towards him as anything more than a friend she liked to boss around. If she knew he had feelings for her, she had already hurt him by going to the Yule Ball two years earlier with someone else.

Not really, Hermione had made a move, even if it wasn't a very bold move. Didnt she invite him to the slug party? Even Ron noticed it was kind of a move as he kept repeating it to Harry. I think she was kind of dense about Ron. She had feelings towards him, and kind of thought that maybe he had some for her too, so probably she had been daydreaming about Slug party, and suddenly, when she had gotten her expectatives high, Ron shttered them dating another girl.

I think she had the right to cry, but not to attack Ron. And probably not crying in front of Ron.

Why would Ron want to go to a Slug Party when it Slughorn barely acknowledged his existence?

Why would Ron want to go to a Slug Party when it Slughorn barely acknowledged his existence?

Because he wanted to, and he was jealous of Hermione and Harry because they would go. Hermione knew it, so she invited him, which, made him pretty happy, as they were very polite to each other and Harry thought it was just a matter of time before they started dating. I mean even Harry realized that there was something going on between those two.

And then Ron hears Hermione snogged another boy ages ago, and starts being mean. Pretty dumb if you ask me.

Because he wanted to, and he was jealous of Hermione and Harry because they would go. Hermione knew it, so she invited him, which, made him pretty happy, as they were very polite to each other and Harry thought it was just a matter of time before they started dating. I mean even Harry realized that there was something going on between those two.

I think he would have wanted to go had he been asked to attend by Slughorn intially. While he may have agreed to go eventually, it must have seemed like an act of pity in a sense.

And then Ron hears Hermione snogged another boy ages ago, and starts being mean. Pretty dumb if you ask me.

Men can be very territorial. If they love a particular woman, and that woman kisses another guy, it's like spitting in the man's face. Being mean is a defence mechanism to cover the hurt.

I think he would have wanted to go had he been asked to attend by Slughorn intially. While he may have agreed to go eventually, it must have seemed like an act of pity in a sense.

Huh? He wanted to go, but he wasn't asked to, so he starts attacking the 'slug club' (pretty inmature), until Hermione says something like 'I f you reallly think it's that pathetic, then I won't invite you', and his 'opinion' changes in a second. It wasn't an act of pity, but of friendship, because she knew he wanted to go, and she had the oportunity to let him go.

Men can be very territorial. If they love a particular woman, and that woman kisses another guy, it's like spitting in the man's face. Being mean is a defence mechanism to cover the hurt.

Well, women aren't property or territory. If he could stare at Fleur and look like and idiot, why couldn't she have a little thing for Krum? I don't think that the whole 'men are' is a very apropiate argument.

Huh? He wanted to go, but he wasn't asked to, so he starts attacking the 'slug club' (pretty inmature), until Hermione says something like 'I f you reallly think it's that pathetic, then I won't invite you', and his 'opinion' changes in a second. It wasn't an act of pity, but of friendship, because she knew he wanted to go, and she had the oportunity to let him go.

He may have wanted to be invited initially with his other friends. When he wasn't invited, it sent a very clear signal that he wasn't welcome. By the time Hermione asked him, he may have accepted, but a degree of feeling pitied may still have been at play. So for him, it was a lose-lose situation.

Well, women aren't property or territory. If he could stare at Fleur and look like and idiot, why couldn't she have a little thing for Krum? I don't think that the whole 'men are' is a very apropiate argument.

I don't think it's fair to judge Ron simply because he was attracted to a half-Veela with possibly supernatural powers over men.

Well, women aren't property or territory. If he could stare at Fleur and look like and idiot, why couldn't she have a little thing for Krum? I don't think that the whole 'men are' is a very apropiate argument.

The last part is still true, though. Lashing out in anger is a reflex action during emotional pain (especially if one doesn't typically cry, though they can sometimes overlap).

I don't think it's fair to judge Ron simply because he was attracted to a half-Veela with possibly supernatural powers over men.

Yeah, she was a half-veela, and it isn't fair but I don't think is fair to be so rude with Hermione because she had a relationship ages ago. I love Ron, but he's quite inmature, and in my opinion that was a despicable behaviours, specially because they had been getting aong just fine. Better than fine I think.

Lashing out in anger is a reflex action during emotional pain

But he had no reason to be in pain. Hermione dated a guy ages ago. Hermione asked him to go to a party with him. I don't get the reason why Ron should be so angry at her. Harry doesn't either, and of coursem I'd bet neither would Hermione, specially because Krum and Hermione were just friends.

No, not really. At the point Ron started smooching Lavender, Hermione hadn't really made a move towards him as anything more than a friend she liked to boss around. If she knew he had feelings for her, she had already hurt him by going to the Yule Ball two years earlier with someone else.

In HBP, Chapter 14, Hermione tells Ron that she was going to invite him, but if he thought it was stupid, he didn't have to go. Ron says "You were going to invite me?" Ron gets very quiet and pleased with himself (Harry's observation), and tells Hermione no, he doesn't rather she go with Cormac. The attraction is obvious enough that Harry wonders what would happen if they started being a couple & it didn't work out, how it would affect his friendship with each of them, and Harry noticed a difference in their behavior towards each other after that. This happened well before Ron picked up with Lavender. So again, it seems that Ron's motivation came from Ginny's comments (which came shortly after Hermione said she wanted Ron to come to Slughorn's party) and his own insecurities. As far as the Yule Ball, Ron was dismissive & mean, saying one of them could always go with Hermione, not believing anyone would ask her because she wasn't posh enough, so he has no right to indignation there.

The point is, Ron reacted stupidly after Ginny's comments by snogging Lavender in the middle of a common room party, to make a point. Hermione couldn't have been more plain in telling Ron she wanted to ask him to go with her to the party. She had also made a point after the Yule Ball, essentially telling Ron the same thing -- she would have liked to go with him. So the facts from the books don't seem to support your supposition.

Hermione's leaving the room quickly and Harry hearing a small sob, is perfectly appropriate; and sorry, but Ron has no ground to stand on here.

I'd put my trust in Harry's hearing. If he heard a sob, it's reasonably to assume that's what she was doing.

I'm sure she did. I would also expect that she cried quite a bit in private as well. She was hurt and angry and that is a normal response, IMO.

No, not really. At the point Ron started smooching Lavender, Hermione hadn't really made a move towards him as anything more than a friend she liked to boss around. If she knew he had feelings for her, she had already hurt him by going to the Yule Ball two years earlier with someone else.

She had made a move by inviting him to Slughorn's party with her - and Ron had agreed to go as her date. Ron was quite pleased at the prospect - it was the argument with Ginny that changed things.

Why would Ron want to go to a Slug Party when it Slughorn barely acknowledged his existence?

The party was irrelevant - he wanted to go on a date with Hermione. If she'd invited him to go to Madame Puddifoot's with her on the next Hogsmeade weekend it would have been the same thing.

I think he would have wanted to go had he been asked to attend by Slughorn intially. While he may have agreed to go eventually, it must have seemed like an act of pity in a sense.

The party wasn't the issue. Hermione asking him on a date was. When she asked him, he took it to mean that she had feelings for him as well and that gave him hope - and he was right because she did.

It was the argument with Ginny that made him question that because, on top of embarrassing him about his lack of experience, Ginny made the claim that Hermione had snogged Krum. If that were true, then Hermione had lied to him because she had continually told Ron and she and Krum were just friends every time he asked her about it. If she had been snogging Krum - which is British slang for making out - then their relationship was a lot more serious than Hermione had admitted to. That would naturally make Ron question Hermione's intentions, IMO. Did she really want to go on a date with him or did she just ask him out of pity because Slughorn and excluded him and/or was using him as a substitute because Krum wasn't there? On top of all that, he didn't feel that he could compete with someone like Krum.

Men can be very territorial. If they love a particular woman, and that woman kisses another guy, it's like spitting in the man's face. Being mean is a defence mechanism to cover the hurt.

I would agree with that to some extent - that was at least part of why Ron reacted the way he did. It's not logical, but emotions are not logical. But the rest is true as well. His low self esteem and feeling that he could not measure up to someone like Krum, thinking Hermione had lied to him, being embarrassed about his own lack of experience - there were a lot of factors involved in how Ron handled that situation.

Yeah, she was a half-veela, and it isn't fair but I don't think is fair to be so rude with Hermione because she had a relationship ages ago. I love Ron, but he's quite inmature, and in my opinion that was a despicable behaviours, specially because they had been getting aong just fine. Better than fine I think.

Neither was fair or logical, but emotions are not logical. Hermione was illogical and rude to Ron regarding the situation with Fleur. It was fairly obvious that Ron was being affected by Fleur's Veela powers - which it was established on page that she did have - but Hermione doesn't seem to understand that - or she disregarded it because she was hurt. Fleur was also quite beautiful and Hermione perceived her as a threat. And that is due in part to the comments Ron made when they were trying to find dates for the ball - didn't want to end up with a troll, he'd take the best looking girl that would have him, etc... Hermione was left with the impression that Ron was only interested in pretty girls. And Hermione was not your typical pretty girl. If that's what Ron wanted, then why would he ever be interested in her? Fleur's beauty and Ron's reaction to her brought all that back and, even though his reaction was obviously due to Fleur's Veela powers, Hermione couldn't help feeling insecure about it and reacting to that by saying hurtful things. Lavender being one of those typical pretty "girly" girls only compounded that.

Ron had a similar issue with Krum - only it was Krum being famous and a great Quidditch player that made him insecure. He didn't think he could compete with a guy like that. If that's the kind of guy Hermione was attracted to then how could she possibly be interested in him? Moreso for Ron, Hermione actually went on a date with Krum and he knew that Krum had been attracted to Hermione as well and had invited her to come visit him in Bulgaria. That was a big difference from him being affected by Fleur's Veela powers and her not being interested in him at all.

Both of them were immature about it, IMO. They were both jealous and insecure and they both reacted to that by saying hurtful things to each other. That continued in HBP with both Fleur and Krum coming up again - Fleur being at the Burrow because she was marrying Bill and Ginny claiming that Hermione had snogged Krum. And they both still react immaturely to those things because they're still jealous and insecure and they still react to that by saying hurtful things to each other.

However, I would also say that all of that was very normal and very necessary - particularly in HBP because the issue was not resolved in GOF. The events of HBP were necessary to finally resolve those issues so they could move forward, IMO. It was a learning experience for both of them and they both came away from it behaving more maturely than they had before it was resolved.

But he had no reason to be in pain. Hermione dated a guy ages ago. Hermione asked him to go to a party with him. I don't get the reason why Ron should be so angry at her. Harry doesn't either, and of coursem I'd bet neither would Hermione, specially because Krum and Hermione were just friends.

I thought that was fairly obvious myself. It wasn't Hermione who told him that when it happened - or even later whenever he asked her about it. It was Ginny making that claim two years later. Two years in which Hermione had continually insisted that she and Krum were nothing more than friends. Two years in which he had spent convincing himself that Hermione was not attracted to guys like Krum so she could be attracted to him. Ginny claiming that Hermione snogged Krum just brought it all back around full circle. If it was true, then Hermione had lied to him about her and Krum just being friends. If it was true, then Hermione was attracted to Krum and that meant - in Ron's view - that she could not be attracted to him because he didn't feel he could measure up to somebody like Krum.

And, if all that was true, then Hermione wasn't asking him on a date for Slughorn's party - she was just asking him out of pity because they were friends. And that's not what he wanted. Hermione inviting him to the party had given him hope that she was attracted to him, but Ginny saying all those things to him was like a slap in the face and he walked away from that thinking there was no way Hermione could be attracted to him because he wasn't as good as Krum. And all of that was compounded by Hermione inadvertently implying that she didn't think Ron could play Quidditch well without Felix Felicis - which was also a sore spot in his ego at the time. And you can also add Hermione ignoring him while she listed off all the reasons why girls fancied Harry. And nearly all the things she went on about girls liking about Harry - apart from the Voldemort stuff of course - would also apply to Krum. So - by the end of that week - Ron had sunk to the lowest point and was thinking that Hermione could not possibly be interested in him because she would prefer someone like Krum - or Krum himself.

Again, it's not completely logical, but logic goes out the window when emotions are involved. Ron had gotten his hopes up when Hermione asked him to the party only to have his sister yank the rug out from under him. Of course, the logical response would have been for Ron to talk to Hermione about what Ginny had said to get her side of the story. But that would also involve admitting why it was so important to him and he was afraid to risk telling Hermione how he felt when he didn't believe that she could ever feel the same way.

It all comes down to mistakes that they both made, IMO. I think they both had normal reactions to being hurt though. Hermione crying because she was hurt and angry was a very normal and realistic response, IMO.

Before the Yule Ball, Ron always seemed a person who was less sure of himself than Hermione was of herself. It would not have taken much effort for her to ask him out. So his reaction to her going with Krum was perfectly justifiable.

As for the Slug Club, I don't deny Ginny's attack was a contributing factor, but the fact he wasn't invited on equal terms to his friends must have been a factor too. Rowling may not have explicitly stated it, but if these are to be considered believable characters, it would certainly have played a major role in his mindset.

I don't think Ron acted stupidly by kissing Lavender. He had his masculinity challenged by his sister of all people. So he understandably acted impulsively.

I think you're all asking for a lot of emotional maturity and logical thinking from a kid who is downtrodden most of the time anyway for being poor

I think that she cried because of the stressful situation and the fact that the person she loved had just walked out. She was very frustrated as they didn't know how to complete their mission.

But he had no reason to be in pain.

Being reminded of your inadequacies isn't a reason for pain?

Being reminded of your inadequacies isn't a reason for pain?

Good point. But it doesn't explain why he sarted being so rude to Hermione. I get it that she cried because she liked him, and he was being a total jerk with her at the time. It was worst because a day before everything was going great between both.

I think she had the right to feel hurt and to cry if she wanted to, but I'm not so sure about the birds...

Good point. But it doesn't explain why he sarted being so rude to Hermione.

Because guys do that (especially guys who don't really cry). We lash out in anger, even if the person we lash out at has nothing to do with it. We see this with Harry; grief-stricken and blaming himself for Sirius' death, he takes it out on Dumbledore by destroying his office. Ron feels that he's not good enough for Hermione, and as a result lashes out. Hermione was a victim of circumstance; Ron would have snapped at anybody else in the same situation.

Because guys do that (especially guys who don't really cry). We lash out in anger, even if the person we lash out at has nothing to do with it. We see this with Harry; grief-stricken and blaming himself for Sirius' death, he takes it out on Dumbledore by destroying his office. Ron feels that he's not good enough for Hermione, and as a result lashes out. Hermione was a victim of circumstance; Ron would have snapped at anybody else in the same situation.

Ok, that kind of makes sense. But it doesn't change the fact that she had a reason to feel hurt. :p

I don't think Ron acted stupidly by kissing Lavender. He had his masculinity challenged by his sister of all people. So he understandably acted impulsively.

Agree.

In my opinion she was very unstable after she cursed her parents and sent them to Australia. Throughout the book she acted like it was nothing, but I think it really affected her. And then once Ron left that just made her a ticking time bomb and incredibly fragile so that anytime she was scared, mad or happy she cried.

I like this whole "territory" concept we've got going here. It makes me think of German shepherds fighting over a piece of meat or something. :p

Anyhow, yeah, I think Hermione had a reason to cry, because as Harry put it, he "didn't see a good way to explain that what she had done to anger Ron was to kiss Viktor Krum, not when the offense had occured so long ago..." It was 2 years before, and in all honesty, I think that everyone involved had figured that the whole Hermione-Viktor thing had run its course. Ginny just brought it up to get at Ron, and it worked, probably a bit too well. Ron got angry, decided he'd show Ginny what's what, and that if Hermione didn't need him, well then, he didn't need her. This was all on Ron. It made for some great funny moments, but jeez, Ron can be so blissfully oblivious sometimes.

Before the Yule Ball, Ron always seemed a person who was less sure of himself than Hermione was of herself. It would not have taken much effort for her to ask him out. So his reaction to her going with Krum was perfectly justifiable.

As for the Slug Club, I don't deny Ginny's attack was a contributing factor, but the fact he wasn't invited on equal terms to his friends must have been a factor too. Rowling may not have explicitly stated it, but if these are to be considered believable characters, it would certainly have played a major role in his mindset.

I don't think Ron acted stupidly by kissing Lavender. He had his masculinity challenged by his sister of all people. So he understandably acted impulsively.

I think you're all asking for a lot of emotional maturity and logical thinking from a kid who is downtrodden most of the time anyway for being poor

I would agree actually. I never expected Ron to show any great level of emotional maturity and logical thinking as a teenager - same goes for Hermione. They were teenagers and I expected them to behave as teenagers. That was actually the point I was making in comparing what they could have done to what they did do. If we were talking about adults, the situations would have been handled much differently because age and experience would factor in as they would both be more emotionally mature and have a better understanding of relationships in general.

As teenagers, they didn't have the experience or knowledge to understand the situation or know how to handle it. It was all very new for them and they were learning as they went along. In the end, I think all of these things contribute to giving them more emotional maturity as well as the knowledge to understand such situations. As such, their relationship as adults will be much stronger.

Ok, that kind of makes sense. But it doesn't change the fact that she had a reason to feel hurt. :p

Of course not. They both had a reason to feel hurt because they both screwed up and made mistakes. Ron's reaction to being hurt was to lash out in temper. And that was not limited to Hermione - he lashed out at others as well. Harry describes Ron as being "touchy and ready to lash out as the average Blast-Ended Skrewt" after the argument with Ginny. And he worries because Ron's new aggression doesn't wear off within the next few days - it only gets worse - and that causes him to have even more problems during Quidditch practice - which only made him even more aggressive and apt to lash out.

Ironically, we also see Hermione react like this at times throughout the series as well. In GOF, she was very touchy and tended to lash out at people during the whole situation with Rita writing bad articles about her and other girls flirting with Ron after the second task - specifically Padma Patil. In OOTP, she was touchy with Ron and it came across that she was frustrated with him for not making any kind of move and she responded to that with temper and sarcastic insults. She does that a few times in HBP as well.

However, Hermione's reactions are also more emotional overall with tears being a common outlet for her. She cries when she is happy, embarrassed, sad, angry - you name it. Hermione expresses her emotions through tears as well as occasionally lashing out in temper - and it's not uncommon for her to do both and cry as she's lashing out. This was part of her characterization from the beginning and Harry frequently observes - or suspects - that she has burst into tears, is on the verge of tears, or has tears in her eyes when she is emotional - whatever that emotion might be. I tend to do that myself - drives my husband nuts. :lol:

In any emotional situation, I would say that crying would be a normal response for Hermione. From bursting into tears in happiness at being awarded 50 points for the use of cool logic during the ending feast to running out of the room and crying in private because her heart was broken to cowering before Harry with tears in her eyes because she was terrified he was being led into a trap - I don't see any of that as unusual because Hermione was a very emotional person who tried to keep a very tight reign of control on herself the majority of the time. That control was bound to snap on occasion because emotions need an outlet from time to time or you will drive yourself crazy.