Werewolves in DH

I loved the tale of the werewolves that was a part of the HP storyline. In Deathly Hallows we saw the end to this wonderful portion of the story and it was a pleasant close.

From the start of the series we know werewolves were shunned and seen as outcasts. Remus Lupin showed the hardships of trying to live in Wizard Society and through his character we were told how other werewolves dealt with the hardship of living 'underground' and outside of society.

We also saw just how far a werewolf might go based on the shunning of society in Greyback, who wanted to populate the wizard world with werewolves and seek revenge and even joined up with Voldemort to further his goals.

In the epilogue of DH, we are told that Kingsley took over the Ministry and JKR mentioned that Hermione went to work for the Ministry as well to help magical creatures. Finally JKR concluded telling us via interview that she had written the Epilogue primarily to show that Teddy Lupin was happy and the world had indeed become a better place for him as his father wished (who would have been shunned by association in the old society) and I took that to mean that the werewolf issues had been addressed by the Ministry and things were better for them.

I really enjoyed the werewolf theme in the book, I felt it added a good outlook on prejudice in wizard society, but also showed how those hit with prejudice can come to terms with it within their own lives (like Remus) and how others may never come to terms with it (like Greyback).

Interview referenced: Dateline NBC

It should be added that Jo mentioned that Teddy Lupin was not werewolf like his father, but Metamorphmagus like her mother. I suppose the latter gene cancelled out the former. It could thus be inferred that since Teddy was not himself afflicted with lycanthropy, and his father was quite long dead, he wouldn't have had to deal with anti-werewolf prejudice in any case. The Epilogue was written primarily to show that Teddy was alive and happy, but this relates more to his orphan status than to any werewolf problems he might or might not have.

I do like the werewolves subplot, though. I was surprised by Lupin's outburst in DH; when that happened, I realized that he was right. None of us had seen Remus Lupin amongst any but the Order and under Dumbledore's protection at Hogwarts. We had only heard a bit of what Remus had to deal with, but the full weight of it could not have really hit us until that moment, when the victim himself finally broke down.

The Lupin/Tonks/Teddy subplot was, I think, a far better way to end the werewolf story than any clash between Lupin and Greyback could have been. Greyback was Lupin's foil, but not his nemesis. Revenge for the bite would have been all well and good, but it wouldn't have really set Lupin apart from Grayback's ilk.

Part of the theme of the Harry Potter books is that everyone is equal, and werewolves are. I would've loved to read the original Epilogue, so what if it's a bit long or cheesy or whatever made JKR not use it? The more I here from JKR, the more I think I would've liked it.

It should be added that Jo mentioned that Teddy Lupin was not werewolf like his father, but Metamorphmagus like her mother. I suppose the latter gene cancelled out the former. It could thus be inferred that since Teddy was not himself afflicted with lycanthropy, and his father was quite long dead, he wouldn't have had to deal with anti-werewolf prejudice in any case. The Epilogue was written primarily to show that Teddy was alive and happy, but this relates more to his orphan status than to any werewolf problems he might or might not have.

I do like the werewolves subplot, though. I was surprised by Lupin's outburst in DH; when that happened, I realized that he was right. None of us had seen Remus Lupin amongst any but the Order and under Dumbledore's protection at Hogwarts. We had only heard a bit of what Remus had to deal with, but the full weight of it could not have really hit us until that moment, when the victim himself finally broke down.

The Lupin/Tonks/Teddy subplot was, I think, a far better way to end the werewolf story than any clash between Lupin and Greyback could have been. Greyback was Lupin's foil, but not his nemesis. Revenge for the bite would have been all well and good, but it wouldn't have really set Lupin apart from Grayback's ilk.

I agree. I would only add that JKR in her Dateline NBC appearance did reference the Ministry and all of the good they had achieved under Kingsley when speaking about Teddy and mentioned that she wanted readers to know that the 'world had become a better place' - so I took that to mean that it would not have been, but for Kingsleys work in relation to werewolves.

However, I agree that a Metamorph would not normally be shunned - although people in the wizard world did seem to be pretty fixated on birthrights, so it could have been an issue for him even though his parents were dead. Generally those who did all of the shunning took care to find out about parentage even if the parents were not around (as in Hermione's case with the mudblood issue). So that is why I reasoned that Kingsley had dealt with this issue at the Ministry (making wolfsbane potion more readily available - repealing laws and such). But it was just my impression from what JKR said in the interview.

I also agree with what you said about the Lupin v. Greyback issue. I too was glad they didn't have a confrontation for the same reason.

Part of the theme of the Harry Potter books is that everyone is equal, and werewolves are. I would've loved to read the original Epilogue, so what if it's a bit long or cheesy or whatever made JKR not use it? The more I here from JKR, the more I think I would've liked it.

I couldn't agree more. I would have loved to read about it in the epilouge despite of how cheesy it could be.

In the old Ministry, it was 'Us' against 'Them'!
Us, as the wizards, and 'them,' as every other magical creature, below the wizards. But now, things have changed, and...for the better!

I think this part of the book was very done as other people have said JKR didnt just go for a fight between Fenrir and Remus. This part of the story reveals that Remus was responsible and regocnised the dangers of his kind, and wanted to make provision for his son. It would appear in lot of werewolf stories that they are persecuted and mostly unfairly it shows that in Harry Potter there was acceptance of werewolfs to a degree but obviously caution too, but it illustrates understanding of other kinds of beasts and creatures:relax:

I agree in a bit of the more popular literature, werewolves are persecuted. However, there are actually more stories out there where they are not, funny enough. But JKR, like you said, did make provision for the magical creatures in the epilogue which includes werewolves, but also, vampires, giants, goblins, elves and others we saw along the way. Some feel the ending was a little too 'happily ever after', but I don't. In many of our own societies I think it would be, but JKR's society of wizards obviously realized their potential a lot faster than we generally do...maybe as an example?

I agree that I liked the werewolf subplot in that it gave us great insight into prejudice in the wizarding world, and it also revealed a great deal of Lupin's and Tonks's characters. However, I would have liked to have seen what actually happened to Greyback in the end. It seems that after all that cruelty, something would be coming to him.

I agree that I liked the werewolf subplot in that it gave us great insight into prejudice in the wizarding world, and it also revealed a great deal of Lupin's and Tonks's characters. However, I would have liked to have seen what actually happened to Greyback in the end. It seems that after all that cruelty, something would be coming to him.

It appears as though he fell at the Battle of Hogwarts just prior to the face off between Harry and Voldemort. Taken out by Ron and Neville. And Flitwick got revenge for Lupin, the only other werewolf, but fighting for the good side, by taking out Dolohov at the same battle (his killer).

Part of the theme of the Harry Potter books is that everyone is equal, and werewolves are. I would've loved to read the original Epilogue, so what if it's a bit long or cheesy or whatever made JKR not use it? The more I here from JKR, the more I think I would've liked it.

I agree with you on the whole equal part, and I would have also loved to have read the original Epilogue too.

I agree. I really liked all the subplots that JKR tied into the series. It really gave the books a new depth and meaning.

It should be added that Jo mentioned that Teddy Lupin was not werewolf like his father, but Metamorphmagus like her mother. I suppose the latter gene cancelled out the former.

Except Lupin's lycanthropy wasn't genetic. He was bitten by Greyback as a child.

Except Lupin's lycanthropy wasn't genetic. He was bitten by Greyback as a child.

We don't know that. According to Lupin, werewolves don't have children. Lupin had a very legitimate fear that it could get passed down. Teddy might not be one but his kid will have similar risk.

We do know that. In PoA (Chapter 18, according to the Lexicon (http://www.hp-lexicon.org/wizards/lupin.html)) he reveals he became a werewolf after being bitten as a small boy, so his lyncanthropy isn't genetic but acquired.

Aren't there disease which although not genetic can be passed down to one's children? Perhaps lycanthropy is similar to those...

True. But my original post related to this claim that Lupin's lycanthropy was genetic:

It should be added that Jo mentioned that Teddy Lupin was not werewolf like his father, but Metamorphmagus like her mother. I suppose the latter gene cancelled out the former.

There are several reasons why Werewolves would choose not to produce children. One would be because it is very unlikely for a non werewolf to be involved with a werewolf, due to societal shunning. And if two werewolves had a baby, it would be quite likely the affliction would be passed to the child, and normal or werewolf, I would think it highly unlikely the child would survive the first full moon. Who would werewolf parents find to take care of their nonwerewolf child during the full moon to keep it safe? And transforming can be quite painful, it might be too much for a little infant.

Most werewolves would probably be afraid of having a spouse and child who weren't werewolves due to safety reasons for the said spouse and child.

Remus's fears were very real in regards to Tonks and Teddy.

We do know that. In PoA (Chapter 18, according to the Lexicon (http://www.hp-lexicon.org/wizards/lupin.html)) he reveals he became a werewolf after being bitten as a small boy, so his lyncanthropy isn't genetic but acquired.

Correct but the original post was talking about Teddy Lupin. Teddy could have inherited it irrespective of the way his father got infected.

Correct but the original post was talking about Teddy Lupin. Teddy could have inherited it irrespective of the way his father got infected.

That seems unlikely based on the information we have. Lupin was afraid his child would inherit his lycanthropy, but he had no actual basis for that fear beyond the fact that most werewolves avoided having children because of that fear. There was no evidence presented that anyone had ever been born a werewolf. The only cause presented was being bitten by another werewolf. Lupin's fear was based on the unknown rather than any substantiated fact. Since other werewolves avoided having children, there was no documentation as to whether or not lycanthropy could be inherited. Teddy's birth dispelled that fear for Lupin since he was not born a werewolf - and could likely ease the minds of other werewolves in regards to being able to have children if it is known that Teddy's father was a werewolf.

That seems unlikely based on the information we have. Lupin was afraid his child would inherit his lycanthropy, but he had no actual basis for that fear beyond the fact that most werewolves avoided having children because of that fear. There was no evidence presented that anyone had ever been born a werewolf. The only cause presented was being bitten by another werewolf. Lupin's fear was based on the unknown rather than any substantiated fact. Since other werewolves avoided having children, there was no documentation as to whether or not lycanthropy could be inherited. Teddy's birth dispelled that fear for Lupin since he was not born a werewolf - and could likely ease the minds of other werewolves in regards to being able to have children if it is known that Teddy's father was a werewolf.

My point is that he did not know and was unwilling to take a risk. He knew better than others what it was like to be a werewolf and wouldn't want his kid to go through it.

I'm not sure we can be sure that nothing got passed down just because Teddy didn't become one. If something did get passed, it could possibly be Teddy's kid that shows signs of it. In fact, it would be interesting if he has a kid with Victoire since her father might also have passed something.

interesting thought. Bill was bitten by a werewolf, who wasn't transformed into a werewolf. Remus was a werewolf. if Teddy and Victoire did have children???? I wonder if Wolfsbane potion could be brewed ahead of time, like months ahead and stored until needed. or did it have to be freshly brewed?

interesting thought. Bill was bitten by a werewolf, who wasn't transformed into a werewolf. Remus was a werewolf. if Teddy and Victoire did have children???? I wonder if Wolfsbane potion could be brewed ahead of time, like months ahead and stored until needed. or did it have to be freshly brewed?

It probably needs to be brewed fresh every month--that's what Prof. Snape did in PoA. No doubt he would have preferred to make one big batch.:agree:

My point is that he did not know and was unwilling to take a risk. He knew better than others what it was like to be a werewolf and wouldn't want his kid to go through it.

I'm not sure we can be sure that nothing got passed down just because Teddy didn't become one. If something did get passed, it could possibly be Teddy's kid that shows signs of it. In fact, it would be interesting if he has a kid with Victoire since her father might also have passed something.

I think it was primarily fear of the unknown that motivated Lupin in that respect. Since werewolves typically avoided having children, there was no documentation or research to prove or disprove the possibility of lycanthropy being passed on genetically. As far as we're shown, it could only be passed on by being bitten by another werewolf who was actually transformed at the time.

We also see that with Bill - who was bitten by Greyback when he was not transformed. They didn't know what the results of that would be. As it turned out, that bite did not result in Bill becoming a werewolf - the only effect on him was that he developed a liking for rare meat - so that would be evidence that lycanthropy could only be passed on while the person was actually transformed into a werewolf.

Of course, those two incidents are not definitive, but they do demonstrate that that it was unlikely for anyone to pass on lycanthropy when they were not transformed. Since Lupin and Tonks would not be intimate during his transformations - and Bill never transformed into a werewolf at all - it is unlikely that either Teddy or Victoire would inherit lycanthropy or be able to pass it on themselves since neither of them would ever transform either. Given Jo's comments about the next generation, it does not appear that it was an issue.