Book Five Romance -- was it all you were expecting?

Quote:
I think this will happen, and i put money on Hermione......(she is a mudblood after all) Can you just see the rage and fury of Harry going after her?! Coupled with the fact that Voldie has taken away his Godfather Harry will be out for blood if they lay a finger on Hermione......

Thats exactly what I was thinking right after I finished the book, nice post.

Agreed. Harry's lost his godfather, he's lost the last bit of love he had in his life. Who is he going to turn to? There is nobody that can fill his needs like Hermione, and we know that girl will do anything for him. I think int he end Voldemort will indeed make an attack on Hermione - and you know what? It will be his undoing. As someone said in a past post, family love defeated Voldemort once. This time, perhaps it's romantic love that does it. It's love either way. It's Voldemorts weakness; he can't understand love.

I've always believe Voldemort will get Hermione. I like to call it: Killing two birds with one stone. Getting a mudblood who is a bestfriend of Harry is perfect for Voldemort.

And I also think that this will make Harry snap and go after Voldemort himself.

I see that culminated and overflowing Harry. This will allow him to kill Voldemort. He couldnt use the Crucious curse because he diddnt mean it, so think how much hate you must feel to cast AK. I have also always had the feeling for some reason that Ron will die. Maybe its the whole sidekick third wheel thing, but it still lingers in my mind. Back on the topic, I also really feel that JK has to have a reason for springing Luna into the series with such force. When you think about it she was in the book alot! More than almost anyone but the trio. I see only a relationship with one of the boys as the answer. Harry, Ron, Neville....furthor more i see the six kids in the MoM in this book being those couples.....Now R/L,N/G,H/Hr is perfect Harmony (HMS!!!) to me, but its up to the master JK

This scene has really been bothering me, I can't put my finger on it, seems innocent enough at first glance but...

Hermione rolled her eyes at Harry and then said in an undertone, while Ron was still muttering imprecations about Michael Corner, 'And talking abouth Michael and Ginny ... what about Cho and you?'
'What d'you mean' said Hary quickly.
It was as though boiling water was rising rapidly inside him; a burning sensation that was causing his face to smart in the cold had he been that obvious?
'Well,' said Hermione, smilling slightly, 'she just couldn't keep her eyes off you, could she?'
Harry had never before appreciated just how beautiful the village of hogsmeade was.

(UK edition, chp 16, pg 311)

What are you thoughts on it?

Sounds to me as exactly what it is. She's asking about Harry and Cho. I think it's after that, when she finds out they kissed that we should be watching. When she realises it's not just fancying from a distance, but rather something happened between them...we start seeing some inkings of displeasure...or even jelousy. Again those descriptions come to me...briskly...frown...businesslike...

I honestly think this is the book Hermione's feelings become apparent to her...and i do believe that in the next book, we could find Harry realising feelings for Hermione. It's as i've said before...he's now lost Sirius...i really think he's going to be turning to Hermione, and i think he's going to realise exactly how much she means to him...beyond mere friendship.

The romances in this book were somewhat wgat I expected. I didn't think Harry would have gotten his first kiss, but I was expecting something with Cho. I'm and H/Hr shipper, but I was expecting more form Hermione and Ron. I would have thought that Ron would have gotten his feeling out in the open by telling Hermione how he felt for her, but it didn't relly happen.Luns was in the book for a reason and I hope it was for her to be with Ron. ;)

Originally posted by Sirius83 (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=398148#post398148))

As someone said in a past post, family love defeated Voldemort once. This time, perhaps it's romantic love that does it. It's love either way. It's Voldemorts weakness; he can't understand love.



Geee someone remembered <g>

I've got a theory on the prophecy and how it relates. I need a little more time to fine tune it but this is the bare bones version. It connects with 2nd quote in my signature line

In SS stone DD says that Love is the one thing that LV never understood. And that love like the love Lily had for Harry leaves a mark ect.

Here the prophecy says "he will have power that the Dark Lord knows not" Dumbledore further explain that the power Harry has over LV is "Heart" (I'm interpreting that as the power to love and be loved as well as courage ect)

OK that audio interview says that something huge happens in the final closing scene that affects the over all plot. Well obviously one of the overall themes here is love. Motherly (Lily, Molly) Friendship, Romantic ect. I think that love is what kills Voldie in the end. And I'm beginning to wonder if that love isn't shown in the form of a sacrifice. One person sacrificing themselves so that Harry can finish off LV for good.

Right now I think that the frontrunner in the Sacrificial Stakes race is Ron. He's jokingly predicted his death . .and his predictions have an odd way of coming true. . and he's partially realised his two deepest desires.

As I said in a previous post its not quite HB and Q Capt but its something that none of his other brothers have been able to accomplish in tandem. Bill was HB, Charlie was Q Capt (won Q cup), Percy was HB. Now Ron is a Prefect and Gryffindor Keeper. He was carried Hogwarts on the shoulders of his housemates, waving the trophy triumphantly and being hailed as the hero of the game. Quite an accomplishment for a boy who thought that there was nothing he could do that his brothers hadn't already done.

There were some other signs, expically when Harry would tell them to stop bickering

I loved the bit where Harry thought that Hermy and Ron were like Mrs. and Mr. Weasley. And the bit where Hermy (sorry, can't stop calling her that now.) says "No, of course you're not [a bad kisser]" to Harry and Ron says "HOW DO YOU KNOW!" (It wasn't really in capitals, but I like it better that way.) I'm sure those bits made R/H shippers everywhere go crazy!

I think you're looking too far into the text. However, there are a lot of signs in previous books!

I just want to know one thing from the R/Hr shippers who think that JRK's platonic quotes about H/Hr are spoken truthfully and thus think H/Hr is definately platonic. When JRK quotes that in GoF (i dun have the exact quote) the characters like the wrong person. Hence we see in GoF:

- Harry > Cho
- Ron > Hermione / Hermione > Ron (for R/Hr shippers)
- Hermione > Krum
- Ginny > Harry

If this is the case, so far 3/4 ships are basically already sunk in OotP, 4/4 if you count Ron > Hermione since there aren't many clues, thoguh R/Hr shippers would disagree otherwise. Anyway to my point, if R/Hr believe that H/Hr is platonic then you also must agree that R/Hr will not happen because JRK quoted that they like the wrong people in GoF. If R/Hr shippers think this isn't true and there is still R/Hr then the same thing could be said for H/Hr and that is that they aern't platonic. What do you's think?

i was kinda disapointed with how little ron/hermione action there was, but the stuff that did happen was pretty satisfying. for example, the kiss on the cheek, and then, later, when harry and hermione are talking about cho, hermione says something about ron. i forget exactly what it was, but i remember thinking at the time that it strongly hinted at a future relationship. sorry, i'm mostly useless.

there were tons of little bits, though, just not as many as in GoF. i'll post again when i find more of them, as i'm reading the book over.

andy

Well, the Cho/Harry thing didn't go as quite as I thought, but, oh well. What a shame. But, really, there was always some possibilty of that relationship not working out, now that I think of it, because you can say, that Harry wasn't all the dating type, while Cho seemed to be experienced at it.
But I guess it does give an insight of the adolescent dating system.
Ginny, well, um...wow. That was weird, 2 guys!!! I mean...:p
I was expecting something to happen between Hermione and Ron, but I guess (more like hope) that'll be saved 'til later.

I'll merge this with the existing thread on Book Five Romance. :)

Alright, I remember the old Love threads where the H/Hr shippers always talked about how Harry and Hermione were mentally in tune. Here are some signs from OotP that they still have their connection:

OotP, British Hardcover, Fight and Flight, Page 670
Harry and Hermione moved together instinctively and peered through the trees.

Notice that Rowling says that they "moved together instinctively". There's another scene earlier in the book where Harry and Hermione were also mentioned to have moved "instinctively", but I can't seem to find it at the moment. Does anyone know where it is?

Voritian, I agree with you If I think Hermione take it that Umbridge could died than I have to think that Hermione don?t care if Harrys date with Cho is going to a fiasco or not.

Bet: Don?t doublepost. You can edit your post that do it better. Its kinda weird to see two posts.

Something what I don?t understand why dos Ginny understand Harry better? Because of this little scene with this reminder of COS? Well this is very low. Hermione seems to calm Harry much more and she do understand him. I mean Hermione starts to say Voldemort exact as Harry starts to yelling its written nothing could calm him more as that.
If Ginny do understand and care so much more for Harry as Hermione than I ask why she didn?t do anything to stop Umbridge? If Hermione didn?t start with this story they had all watch how Umbridge torture Harry. Only a few pages ago its written how well Ginny can lie but if its important she don?t do it.
The same is with the DoM as they are in room of the veil its again Hermione who talks to Harry and not Ginny. The whole time she is awule quiet. If Ginny did this things I did agree but she don?t do it. Ginny is in this book and I ask me what make she to a possible for Harry? I don?t see it in this book not once. Ginny seems to me like a sister to Harry but nothing more.

About Hermione talk to Harry like a child. I disagree if you mean that she explain to much or that she give to much adviced this IMO normal. How would you explain things or try to argue with someone which temper is boiling? How some other members already say it Hermione manage that Harry is listening to her even he has this temper.

A different question. How start you to like someone? I mean without that you aware of your feelings?
Maybe you disagree but I think its starts like that: You think awule often about that girl/boy, You can imagine how his or her voice sound, You can hear your own mind speaking in that voice, You can suddendly remember scene with him or her which weren?t important for you before, You can?t tell him or her the true about somethings, You are much more angrier with him or her as with other people. I?m wrong?

Bet: Is it only me or is in the post of Gilyann and Perdita some strange signs? Seem as if it only in OotP style. So I change it.

Where have all the R/Hr'ers gone?

Probably preparing some new ammunition. You guys totally rock with your posts!

Am I the only one who would like the trio to just stay friends and nothing more? Oh well.

I'm with you here. No romance between the three, less angst for the three. I'd rather see them with other people than bite each other's heads off because of some love triangle thing.

Notice that Rowling says that they "moved together instinctively". There's another scene earlier in the book where Harry and Hermione were also mentioned to have moved "instinctively", but I can't seem to find it at the moment. Does anyone know where it is?


They always "move together instinctively". It's not just one moment. It's all over the book. But about that particular moment you were asking, sorry but I can't find it, I was just scanning after all.

Now about Luna and Ron. Please. I just don't like it. Ron's weird (in an adorable sort of way alright and I don't hate him) enough he doesn't need someone weirder than him. Perhaps someone new? About Harry and Luna it's possible. I have a feeling we will find out a lot of things about Luna that will make her perfect for Harry. Course, Hermione is still the one I'm egging on but Luna and Harry could happen.

Cheers and great posts!

I cannot see Harry and Luna together. Yes, they do have a connection as far as seeing death and hearing those voices underneath the veil, that is where I really see her playing a big part in the last two books. Not to mention Luna really likes Ron more than Harry anyway. If Hermione talked about Ron the way Luna did, there would not be any H/Hr posts.

Where have all the R/Hr'ers gone?
Good question seems to me they are tired by now. Nah, I doubt that though at DT is it awule quiet now kinda strange.

I'm with you here. No romance between the three, less angst for the three. I'd rather see them with other people than bite each other's heads off because of some love triangle thing.
Triangle? No, there won´t be a triangle that what I think. Rons crush is like Harrys at Cho. Sometimes people don´t get what they want. IMO there is already a route where I can see how it works. I haven´t a problem if Ron get the Headboy badge or still prefect or get the quiditch cup or get the captian because this fit with my little theory. He get that what he desire Look PS/SS though he don´t get the love he want. Fine he has a crush at Hermione but she don´t like him back that is life. Don´t you think its only right if in canon some people don´t get her crush like Ginny and Ron?

IMO its like that: Ron want Hermione, Ginny wanted Harry, Harry wanted Cho. Now H/C didn´t work what if R/Hr and H/G don´t work either. Maybe its much more like that: Harry don´t want Hermione and Hermione don´t want Harry but they will falling for each other. Its like you falls against your will isn´t that much more possible? That this could be the reason why that will work and the other not?
I think its possible that you fall for your friend even you don´t want admint it.

I really like Luna a lot. I do.

Just keep her off Harry and Ron! Neville needs love, too! Ginny is going to wind up being a little too much woman for Neville. Luna would be great! Except that I think Neville might worship Hermione and Ginny...and I think he finds Luna scary...

I am not too concerned about romance in book 6. I think Harry is going to spend most of it in a haze of adolescent self pity. "Everybody I love is going to die! I better not love anybody else!" Granted, it isn't the usual teen angst and granted, he'll have a valid point, but it'll still be kind of hard for a girl to crack. Unless Harry goes unbelivably--teenage boyish, if you know what I mean, and I don't think that is a story that JKR wants to write. Harry Potter and the Priapus.

That prophecy may center Harry too. In any case, I'm sure his temper will not be even half as bad. If only Tonks was a little bit younger, Harry may of been cool with her.

FlyingPhoenix: I agree with you that relationships forming from crushes don't go well (been there, done that) but I still think that if Harry falls for Hermione and vice versa, there might be another angst-fest involving the three. We all know that Ron is jealous of Harry and is quite annoyed by the fact that Harry gets everything. If H/H happens, I have a feeling Ron will be angry with Harry for stealing the girl (even if Harry doesn't have the smallest inkling that Ron likes Herm). It's part of Ron's personality to react in that way IF he really does like Hermione. That's just the worst part if H/H happens. I'm afraid of what Ron will think. I just hope Ron will be okay with it once that H/H happens (and it will) because I'd rather see them with other people than see them ruin their friendship.

CHalice: I'm with you here. I don't want Harry to distance himself from the one he is in love with just because he's afraid of what Voldemort's going to do. But from the looks of it, it's going there. Sirius' death is a huge blow to Harry, even bigger than Cedric's death. Not just because he loves Sirius but because he thinks it's his fault Sirius is gone. So it's quite possible he'll probably be afraid of hooking up with the one he's going to fall in love with.

Cheers.

too_wicked: Let's just hope that Ron is a bit more mature than he was in GoF if Harry and Hermione get together. Ron still seems to like Hermione, perhaps to a lesser degree than in GoF, but still he has, at the very least, a little crush on her. Ron and Harry seemed to have grown closer in OotP, so Ron may understand Harry and Hermione better. Ultimately, the decision lies with JK ... and it would be rather useless to be speculating like this, wouldn't it? I think that we all have had our moments where we looked too far into the text.

Oh my!

Sure Harry wanted to shake her (that's the worst I've seen, but he never really did it, did he?) He could have and she wouldn't have let her guard down. She wasn't about to let Harry make a big mistake. This is a life and death situation for both Harry and Sirius. I understand why Harry is angry at Hermione, Hermione understands as well, but she would prefer to explain to Harry that perhaps Voldemort has finally "possessed" Harry. She is trying to be reasonable.

Yes and he did didn't he. I'm sorry but Hermione was far from reasonable in there. She uses any way to get there, and in it. She just causes resentment in Harry. Something that it's no good in a relationship. The end doesn't justify the means (was that they way it goes?). Same for the other way around.

Hermione did what she had to do to save Harry. Look at what Cruciatus did to the Longbottoms. Hermione, after "visiting" Lockhart with Ron, Ginny and Harry, knows what Cruciatus does to someone and she does not want it to happen to Harry. And I'm sure she would have done it for anyone else, as well. The thing about this is that Hermione is the one to "come to the rescue." We didn't hear Ginny screaming "NO!" We didn't hear Ron screaming "NO!"

I'm starting to think that people confuse Hermione's hysterics for caring. Yes she cares about Harry, I don't doubt that. But Hermione is not used to this kind of thing. Naturally the first one to scream it's her. Hermione can't even see two chairs fight (GoF). Hermione was holding Ginny's hand in a moment of tension. Hermione is simply not used to mayhem. It has become very obvious to me that while Hermione is a very smart person she is simply not used to the mayhem. She is not made out for the fighting part. I can see where jkr line of 'they think she is bound to be ok because she is smart' comes from in this book. And it worries me, because I can see that just because Hermione is smart it doesn't mean that she will be able to duel in a proper way. The others were able to free themselves didn't they? So there was a way to free themselves from them. Mind you that Hermione's way almost cost Harry and Her their lives. If it hand't been for Harry's brother. They could have easily gotten hurt the same as Umbridge. I'm not bashing Hermione but in this book JKR portrait very clearly her low points and they are the lowest she could find and the easiest to get hurt. Now more than ever I wonder if JKR is really planning to kill Hermione in the end, because I clearly see a lesson behind it all.

why dos Ginny understand Harry better? Because of this little scene with this reminder of COS? Well this is very low. Hermione seems to calm Harry much more and she do understand him. I mean Hermione starts to say Voldemort exact as Harry starts to yelling its written nothing could calm him more as that.

NO actually there are several instances in the book were Ginny not only understand Harry better but also reaches Harry better than Hermione. Mind me that she is only been one book very close to him. It has taken 5 books for Hermione to understand Harry a little better and she still doesn't do it properly. Now he lies to her quietly, I don't see Hermione understanding Harry better. As far as Voldemort name's. Hermione is a muggleborn it's easier for her. Who doesn't have the stigma of childhood of not saying his name. I assumed she would be the first one to say it, and I was right.

If Ginny do understand and care so much more for Harry as Hermione than I ask why she didn?t do anything to stop Umbridge? If Hermione didn?t start with this story they had all watch how Umbridge torture Harry. Only a few pages ago its written how well Ginny can lie but if its important she don?t do it.

Again they free themselves didn't they. Also didn't you asked yourself how did they do it, they had taken their wands and they did it with stunners a dissarming charm etc? There was something there and I know I'm not the only one who notice it.

The same is with the DoM as they are in room of the veil its again Hermione who talks to Harry and not Ginny. The whole time she is awule quiet. If Ginny did this things I did agree but she don?t do it. Ginny is in this book and I ask me what make she to a possible for Harry? I don?t see it in this book not once. Ginny seems to me like a sister to Harry but nothing more.

Oh boy! I give up! No she wasn't quiet. That part has several interesting pieces for several people that are non related to shipping. I can't believe you all were looking for shipping stuff!

Where have all the R/Hr'ers gone?

Personally and I know other people also feel the same way; debating has become a waste of time. There is no way we are going to agree. So what's the point. Besides it becomes irritating and character twisting. Even if some won't agree I think JKR has been very clear on her answers and I'll take her words for it. Since she is the one writting the books. Seveal times she has been said that she answer truthfully to her interviews. I'll take her word and face (Couric) for it. For me and others it's enough. I just came in here to have a quick look.

Fine he has a crush at Hermione but she don´t like him back that is life. Don´t you think its only right if in canon some people don´t get her crush like Ginny and Ron?

I think it became very obvious in this book that Hermione does like Ron back. And that it's already happend. Ginny dropped Michael, Harry dropped Cho, Ron had the crush of Fleur and Hermione became friends with Krum. It's even more life like that after all that you end up with a person close to you. This meaning R/Hr, H/G and the most funny couple of the book N/L.

Gily Ann

NO actually there are several instances in the book were Ginny not only understand Harry better but also reaches Harry better than Hermione Where is that I´m now rereading and I´m on page 313 UK edition and I didn´t find this several instance where Ginny understand and reaches Harry better?
Again they free themselves didn't they. Also didn't you asked yourself how did they do it, they had taken their wands and they did it with stunners a dissarming charm etc? There was something there and I know I'm not the only one who notice it.
Didn´t I ask why Ginny don´t do a thing to help Harry? Why its not her who stop Umbridge? Though only a few pages is written she can very well lie?! But she don´t do it even its important because Umbridge is goning to toture Harry? I didn´t ask if they free themselves or anything what happens after Harry andd Hermione wasn´t anymore in Umbridge room.
Oh boy! I give up! No she wasn't quiet. That part has several interesting pieces for several people that are non related to shipping. I can't believe you all were looking for shipping stuff!
I don´t ask it because of shipping I ask it because you say that Ginny has still a crush at Harry but why dos she shut up in such important scenes? Why isn´t she that present if Ginny is the girl which is for Harry and that say is important for the storyline. She should be more present in such scenes and show that she is worry about Harry. But its not in canon not once that Ginny is the one who grapps his arm and pull him back or tell him he shouldn´t be in that room. Not once she try to help him. Maybe I missed it but she didn´t help him. This is not a shipping question thats a question how Ginny act and she don´t act like you say it IMO. Sometimes you see in dangerous situation more as in normal situations because this people just do it without thinking and after that is Harry not the first thing what comes in Ginnys head and Ginny isn´t the first person who comes in Harrys head

By too_wicked: We all know that Ron is jealous of Harry and is quite annoyed by the fact that Harry gets everything.
After OotP Ron won´t think Harry got everything. Its not true that he get everything its true that he lost much. He lost his parents, his godfather, his childhood, his save life, quiditch. What he got is hate and misstrust only his friends and some gold is that what he has and nothing more. How was it right and easy?! Maybe Ron regornise that it would be right if he let H/Hr happen. It would be only a tiny thing if Harry got something like love after all what He got in this years it will be only a little thing what give him strenght.

Hermione was the most reasonable. One of the reasons why Harry is the best in DADA is because he can keep a cool head under pressure situations. Harry may of been angry but he never hated her for her advice. I really do not see what you are talking in regards to them wanting to hurt each other.

Also that was tables, not chairs. It was not Harry's brother, but Hagrid's half brother. Also when was Hermione holding Ginny's hand in a moment of tension? Hermione of course is not as used to the mayhem. That is what I have been trying to tell you about Harry's problems. He has had much deeper abuse issues, life and death situations than both Ron and Hermione put together. This is why Hermione asked Harry to teach DADA in the first place. He is by far the most experienced and the most skilled.

Ginny does not understand Harry better than Hermione. It has not taken her five books to understand him. She was the quickest to understand what he was going through and bring down his temper, besides Dumbledore and Sirius of course. Ginny just thought Harry was being thick. It was not easy for Hermione to say Voldemort's name. It was not for almost anyone who knew what he had done.

Yes this has disturbed me as well. And it IS INTERRUPTION! Hawk, get down from your nest and start hunting! What was that pause for? Hmmmm....could mean anything, but I'll let others speak about it first. But if she did kiss him, it was just a good luck kiss, also. So perhaps we shouldn't make a big deal out of it.

Where do I think I've been Grace? It's hard to post when you're out of the nest;) Besides I've been looking for a few clues and have found a few. I'm going to save a few because this is a marathon and I think we still have a lot of race to run :D

Ok Now I do claim a small amount for the whole interruptions theory but to be honest it was a combination of a lot of the crew of HMS Harmony from the old Love Thread. So Turamabar, Sirius83, Gracie, Perdita, Made Eye Mike, FP, Sarmi, GG, BabyMars, Fox and a whole lot of others that are too numerous to write deserve the credit. They were pointing at the moments I simply made the connection. So the theory of Interruptions really belongs to all of HMS Harmony.

Anyway to recap briefly. JKR likes to keep us guessing and to keep us in suspense about our favorite characters. But at the same time she gives us ways to figure out what has been going on so that we do not feel cheated when these plot twists are given out. She creates a mystery but gives us the means to solve it. One way she gives hints is to give the hint and then shift our foucs to another person or event. It is a rather interesting pattern that you can notice that she uses with several of her mysteries.

I noticed that she does the same thing with H/Hr moments in the story. In short whenever you get a H/Hr moment JKR puts something in there to shift your focus away from H/Hr. So it lead me to wonder if there was something there that JKR didn't want us to see too easy.

In all honesty if this had happened once or twice you could dismiss it as conicindence or mere chance or that I was reading too much into the moments. But there is an established pattern back to SS/PS which made me wonder if there isn't something there after all.

All pages and quotes come from the US versions of the HP series, and all emphasis is JKR and not mine.

PS/SS Ch16 Through the Trapdoor pg 286-287.
Hermione's lip trembled, and she suddenly dashed at Harry and threw her arms around him.
"Hermione"
"Harry--you're a great wizard, you know."
"I'm not as good as you,"said Harry, very embarrassed, as she let go of him.
"Me!" said Hermione. "Books! And cleverness! There are more important things--friendship and bravery and --- oh Harry --be careful!"
"You drink first," said Harry.

Here we see in PS/SS a H/Hr moment and our attention is then immediately shifted to the bottle that they have to drink and the fact that one of these could be poison. After that our attention goes to Harry facing Voldemort and Quirrel.

Cos Chapter 14 Cornelius Fudge pg 256
McGonagall has just stopped the Quiddich match.

Then she (McGonagall) lowered the megaphone and beckoned Harry over to her.
“Potter, I think that you’d better come with me....”
Wondering how she could possibly suspect him this time, Harry saw Ron detach himself from the complaining crowd; he came running up to them as they set off towards the castle. To Harry’s surprise, Professor McGonagall didn’t object.
“Yes, perhaps you’d better come, too, Weasley.....”

Now Hermione had just been petrified and McGonagall, a teacher who JKR describes as very observant and does miss much seeks out Harry first to tell him. Then JKR inserts Ron and McGonagall includes him as a after thought. So a H/Hr moment has Ron inserted into it to confuse us (interrupt) with Ron.

PoA Chapter 12 The Patronus pg 250-251
“Can I sit down then? Harry asked Hermione.
“I suppose so ,” said Hermione, moving a great stack of parchment off a chair.
Harry looked around at the cluttered table, at the long Arthimancy essay on which the ink was still glistening, at the even longer Muggles Studies (“Explain Why Muggles Need Electricity”) and at the rune translation Hermione was now poring over.
“How are you getting through all this stuff?” Harry asked her.
“Oh, well — you know — working hard” said Hermione. Close up, Harry saw that she almost looked as tired as Lupin.
“Why don’t you just drop a couple of subjects?” Harry asked, watching her lifting books as she looked for her rune dictionary.
“I couldn’t do that!” said Hermione looking scandalized.
“Arthimancy looks terrible,” said Harry picking up a very complicated-looking number chart.
“Oh no, it’s wonderful!” said Hermione earnestly. “It’s my favorite subject! It’s — “
But exactly what was wonderful about Arithmancy, Harry never found out. At that precise moment , a strangled yell echoed down the boy’s staircase.

Insert Ron and the whole much debated Scabbers incident. So you see once again our attention is shifted from Harry and Hermione to Ron. And during this a rather long period of Hermione’s absence from the group.

Gof Ch 18 The Weighing of the Wands pg 290
Harry and Ron have just had their falling out because Harry was chosen as a school champion. And Hermione and Harry are talking about it.
Harry – “Maybe he’ll believe I’m not enjoying myself once I’ve got my neck broken or – “
“That’s not funny,” said Hermione quietly. “That’s not funny at all.” She looked extremely anxious. “Harry I’ve been thinking – you know what we’ve got to do, don’t you? Straight away, the moment that we get back to the castle?”
“Yeah, give Ron a good kick up the – “
“Write to Sirius”

Another moment interrupted by the insertion of Ron and then we focus on Harry telling Sirius so that our attention goes elsewhere.

Now in OotP the pattern remains. Perdita in her excellent post, Very nicely done Perdy, already commented on the interruption with Harry and a possible second kiss so I won’t reexamine that one. Instead I’ll give you a new one to think about.

OotP Ch 26 Seen and Unseen pg 572
Hermione and Harry discussing Harry’s date with Cho.
Hermione – “And it might have been a good idea to mention how ugly you think I am too,” Hermione added as an afterthought.
“But I don’t think you’re ugly,” said Harry, bemused.
Hermione laughed.
“Harry, you’re worse than Ron.....Well, no, you’re not,” she sighed, as Ron himself came stumping into the Hall splattered with mud and looking grumpy.

Another moment and surprise it’s interrupted by Ron again so that our focus is once again shifted to Ron.

Do you see the pattern?

Grace ask and you shall receive.

Man that was long but enjoy it for what its worth.

Cheers!

Well, I thought too about interruptions in OotP there are much more as in other books. An Example as Harry and Hermione come back from the forrest they are talking and ignore first this new Weasley song but than its suddenly there and do interrupt this scene.
I have to look more after that but there are much more and I know it.

Nice job, Hawk, the interruptions are certainly getting frustrating, especially in OotP. ("And you Harry--" Grrr!)

JK has established a pattern of attempting to turn us away from H/Hr by bringing Ron into the picture and directing our attention to him instead. It's the same in canon as in the interviews, even. I'm talking, of course, about the recent Dateline interview, when she SAID something quite explicitly in rebuttal to Couric's question about H/Hr about R/Hr instead. This stunned me at first, but as I've said before, her reaction was so unnaturally extreme that it seemed like she was trying to divert our attention to R/Hr instead to make us *expect* them to get together and *assume* that they will, so that if she does make H/Hr happen it will come as a surprise. This may seem like a convenient twisting of a pretty obvious statement, but honestly, with all her secretiveness, can we really expect JK to give something away like that? And if she wants us to see R/Hr in canon, then why was there a suspicious lack of two-way R/Hr tension in OotP?

Okay, I keep coming back to the fights, because there's a remarkable difference in the way H/Hr fight and R/Hr fight, as we all know. Now GilyAnn says that H/Hr try to hurt each other's feelings when they fight, and they bring out the worst in each other, but here's what I noticed. When they DO fight, it's not personal. They fight about the situation, rather than something that the other person did to make them angry.

With the DoM fight in OotP: This fight was between Harry and Hermione only because of difference in opinion rather than personal grievances. Hermione wanted Harry to take an alternative route about the situation, and he was angry at Hermione's proposed opinion rather than at Hermione herself. He disagrees with what she is saying rather than who she is.

In the Firebolt fight in PoA: he disagrees with what she did, even though he KNOWS that she meant well. That doesn't stop him from being angry at the situation and at Hermione for making the circumstances the way they are. Not once is there a personal issue about something about her character that made him angry; once again, it's the difference of opinion.

I think it became very obvious in this book that Hermione does like Ron back. And that it's already happend. Ginny dropped Michael, Harry dropped Cho, Ron had the crush of Fleur and Hermione became friends with Krum. It's even more life like that after all that you end up with a person close to you. This meaning R/Hr, H/G and the most funny couple of the book N/L.

i dun think harry have dropped Cho ....nor cho have dropped harry cause when harry look st cho she blushed and harry beening thinking bout cho for 3 years

Harry has dropped Cho, however Cho has not dropped Harry. I assume however that Cho will not be looking at Hermione with a smile anytime soon.

OOO.... hermione is jealous .... but she as kunt .....

Now GilyAnn says that H/Hr try to hurt each other's feelings when they fight, and they bring out the worst in each other, but here's what I noticed. When they DO fight, it's not personal. They fight about the situation, rather than something that the other person did to make them angry.

It becomes personal when they aim for the others ones feelings.

In the Firebolt fight in PoA: he disagrees with what she did, even though he KNOWS that she meant well. That doesn't stop him from being angry at the situation and at Hermione for making the circumstances the way they are. Not once is there a personal issue about something about her character that made him angry; once again, it's the difference of opinion.

This was a big shoot for the relationship. H/Hr may want to called it concern. Harry felt betrayed.

Where is that I´m now rereading and I´m on page 313 UK edition and I didn´t find this several instance where Ginny understand and reaches Harry better?

It's not only at one moment in one page. It's several instances.

I ask it because you say that Ginny has still a crush at Harry but why dos she shut up in such important scenes? Why isn´t she that present if Ginny is the girl which is for Harry and that say is important for the storyline. She should be more present in such scenes and show that she is worry about Harry. But its not in canon not once that Ginny is the one who grapps his arm and pull him back or tell him he shouldn´t be in that room. Not once she try to help him. Maybe I missed it but she didn´t help him. This is not a shipping question thats a question how Ginny act and she don´t act like you say it IMO. Sometimes you see in dangerous situation more as in normal situations because this people just do it without thinking and after that is Harry not the first thing what comes in Ginnys head and Ginny isn´t the first person who comes in Harrys head

I don't even have to answer that because it was answer in cannon.

After OotP Ron won´t think Harry got everything. Its not true that he get everything its true that he lost much. He lost his parents, his godfather, his childhood, his save life, quiditch. What he got is hate and misstrust only his friends and some gold is that what he has and nothing more. How was it right and easy?! Maybe Ron regornise that it would be right if he let H/Hr happen. It would be only a tiny thing if Harry got something like love after all what He got in this years it will be only a little thing what give him strenght.

Did we read the same books? Didn't anybody read the way Ron felt about Harry getting everything? I'm honestly surprised by this! :wow:

Harry doesn't like Cho anymore what can that be called?

I'm honestly shoked to death with some statements here and some are a first that I have seen them!

Gily Ann

"I'm honestly shoked to death with some statements here and some are a first that I have seen them!"

Likewise.

but hr has krut .... and + cho may not have decided to drop harry maybe she is still ....u know

Quote:
It's not only at one moment in one page. It's several instances.

Can you please post some of these because I cant find them anywhere, thanks.

Quote:
Yes and he did didn't he. I'm sorry but Hermione was far from reasonable in there. She uses any way to get there, and in it. She just causes resentment in Harry. Something that it's no good in a relationship. The end doesn't justify the means (was that they way it goes?). Same for the other way around.

Hermione knew that Harry was going to try to save someone, she also knew that is was most likely a trick from Voldemort to KILL Harry, why would she not try to stop him from going there. That is kind of like saying that someone who stops someone from driving drunk is far from reason because they didnt go about it the proper way. She was trying to stop him from getting KILLED, am I the only one that saw that. And at that time she knew Harry was blinded by fear for Sirius' life and since she wasent blinded by it (although she still feared it), she could make a more rational decision, thanks.

Quote:

"Did we read the same books? Didn't anybody read the way Ron felt about Harry getting everything? I'm honestly surprised by this!"

Obviously not, cos if memory serves me right, Ron gains in OotP, while harry lost everything.

Hmmmmmmmmm. I agree with the Cho not letting go thing. Imagine if Harry and Hermione DID get together. She already hates hermione for doing what she did to her friend, yet harry still stands by hermione. if you ask me, Cho's relationship (if you can call it that!) with harry was meant to show Harry who was more important, possibily who was right for him. you never know...

there is one scene where ginny does help harry. its when she asks him whats wrong and he says he wants to talk to sirius. Though I dont see the two getting together. Though i do see ron WANTING them to, with that whole suggestive look at him and all. Perhaps Ron really wants hermione, and doesnt want harry left out; sooooo he trys to get his sister and him together, but hermione doesnt like ron and finally has to break the ice. hmmmm. so much spectulation.

Originally posted by Max (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=387674#post387674))
Well, here's my two cents on the romance issue in book 5. I'll go through each pairing one by one, so bear with me for a minute. Let's go:

Ron and Hermione
Alright, now this was unexpected. I presume that most, if not all of us (even H/Hr shippers), have expected that ther would be at least a little more R/Hr stuff in the book. Other than the little peck on the cheek for Ron (which was most probably a 'good luck' kiss), there was very little R/Hr scenes in the book, unlike the so-called tons and tons of places in GoF where Ron and Hermione (alledgedly) clearly showed their feelings for each other. That, as I'm sure many others will point out, is in stark contrast to what we have read in OotP. Consider, for example, the many scenes where Ron and Hermione were alone together (usually in the common room). This would, naturally, be an excellent opportunity for JK to write that Harry walked in on them, perhaps, bickering playfully. That would have been a clear sign of R/Hr. But instead of writing anything of that sort, JK has inculded in its place a much more ... quiet, to say the very least ... version. For example:



Notice that they weren't even speaking to each other while they were (perhaps) waiting for Harry to return, unlike in the oft-spoken scene in GoF where Harry walked in on Ron and Hermione shouting at each other in the common room after the Yule Ball. Again, it had been rather unusual for JK to not include anything of that sort, if she, as quite a few people think, is trying to pair up Ron and Hermione.


I suspect that ALL R/Hr romantic activity took place in Grimwuald(or however its spelled) Place in harry's absence. The fact that Ron and Hermione were, for at least a month, quite busy must've incited SOME character development. I think that this activity is carrying on in secret surfacing only when Ron and Hermione are alone, and will rise in full later in the series.

well ginny help cause harry help her svaed he dad while HR is worried .... and HR also give harry some advise on how to get along well with cho

Earendil: I´m with you. It was annoying that some scenes were that much interrupted.
Voritian: Nice post, but I remind you don´t doublepost I don´t say it because to annoy you I do it because a mod would do it official if you conntine it. Its forum rule or something like that. Just edit if you have to say more and everything is perfect;)

GilyAnn:
Harry felt betrayed.
He don´t felt betrayed its not in canon. He can even understand her why she did it. To felt betrayed have Hermione run to Malfoy or something like that.

It's not only at one moment in one page. It's several instances. Well, where is it than all that stuff? Sorry, I don´t do that usual to see some proofs. I just can´t remember where this should be. One scene is what I mention but there isn´t more in canon as that not that I remember.

don't even have to answer that because it was answer in cannon. If it in canon than I didn´t ask. Its in canon that Ginny don´t fancy Harry anymore thats right but its not in canon why Ginny don´t do a thing to help Harry. I mean after Hermione start her story Ginny can suddendly scream.

Did we read the same books? Didn't anybody read the way Ron felt about Harry getting everything? I'm honestly surprised by this! In GoF yeah but not in OotP. I agree with Wolf. Its right Harry lost and Ron win. Ron win that much what he saw in the mirror thats why I start to think Ron won´t get Hermione. Because Ron saw himself and all this popular stuff in the mirror but Harry saw people who loved him. That say Harry desire is love.
How JKR said she believes only in one magic and that is the magic of love.

I suspect that ALL R/Hr romantic activity took place in Grimwuald(or however its spelled) Place in harry's absence. The fact that Ron and Hermione were, for at least a month, quite busy must've incited SOME character development. I think that this activity is carrying on in secret surfacing only when Ron and Hermione are alone, and will rise in full later in the series.

Thats what I was trying to say a few posts ago, they had all this time there and NOTHING happend. They would of acted differently (I dont care how much you try, if you like someone and something went on between you and them you WILL act differently with them) and they didnt in any way. Can we please stick to stuff we can at least somewhat prove with text. Saying that something happened that was written into the book during the month they where alone is pure speculation with no way of possibly proving it or even convincing anyone. What you are saying is that they do like each other (and I mean you are saying you got that from the other books), so something had to of happend. But someone who thinks Harry and Hermione will get together could just as easily say NOTHING happened during that month since JK didnt write it in and she didnt make them act differently when Harry got there. And they would have more of a case then you would, thanks.

I agree with you Voritian. There is way too much assumption to be made there without support.

Quote:

"I suspect that ALL R/Hr romantic activity took place in Grimwuald(or however its spelled) Place in harry's absence. The fact that Ron and Hermione were, for at least a month, quite busy must've incited SOME character development. I think that this activity is carrying on in secret surfacing only when Ron and Hermione are alone, and will rise in full later in the series."

If JK wanted us to believe a romance between R/H is happening behind harry's back JK would of had Harry walk in on them or other Weasley's make refrence about it. And "carrying on in secret " sounds like something you would find on fanfiction.net

Yah I know because if Ron likes Hermione she has to like him. Wow if it worked that way in real life noone would ever got turned down. Hey FlyingPhoenix good post, that was nice at the end when you said that stuff about Harry wanting love and Ron wanting fame kind of. I think that is really the case also, Harry had never had as much love in his life as Ron as had. But Harry has also had ALOT more fame than Ron has had which I believe will be the reason Harry gets Hermione in the end and Ron gets what he truely wants which is fame and glory, thanks

oh no. were running into the same problem we had in the love thread, what number was it again? 4 or something? well, people kept spectulating on stuff like the whole grimwald place.

To suspect that something happened when it isnt written denies the author the right to tell the story the way she wants in perceived. Plain and Simple.

And even if something DID happen, wouldnt they have been acting differently? If they did have romantic activity going, than why did she, "throw herself onto him in a hug that nearly knocked him flat?", when they first saw him. Why did Ron say, let him breathe? Why didnt they act like a couple, and not a one sided relationship? (Ron liking hermione, but hermione not liking him back.)

I didn't mean it as something to elope about but of something so diminutive and and undefined that its not even there yet. And as for characer development it could just as well be a friendship as a romance. I'm just saying if anything happened in their 5th year it was in Grimmauld Place

ok if R/H then it a granteend it is C/H or G/H

I dont think Ron and Hermione where ever alone there anyway, they always had the twins and Ginny at least near them. And dont you think Fred and George would of ragged on Ron immensely if they had found out that there was something going on between Ron and Hermione (and being the twins they would of), thanks.

Then we have to figure nothing happened.

but there was nothing that DID happen in Grimauld place. it would have been in writing. i wouldnt think something happened because when hermione, ewwww!, kissed him on the cheek, he was surprised.

yes, the twins would report wouldnt they? just think. "oooooohhh. ickle ronnikens has a girl friend!" George teased.

"Yeah", Fred added, "and shes smarter than him, that Hermione Granger!"

Well, I expected more to happen between Harry and Cho, but don't really care that it didn't...

Though I was hoping something would've between Ron and Hermione.. :rolleyes:

If I go back to the the question of this thread; no there was not much as expected. However, I found it pretty realistic that Harry and Cho didn't succeed much. I mean it is pretty rare that your first crush lasts for long. Ron and Hermione? I saw some progress, just the way tehy react to each other shows a strong bound but they are a bit blind.

maybe they did that in private ?!!?!?

If this month was that important for R/Hr than we did know what happening but how it looks it isn´t important what happens between Ron and Hermione and that implied that Hermione don´t seem feel the same for Ron. I agree with Voritian that in real life would it be very strange if nobody is turn down. That my point JKR will write it realistic and that say that one ship won´t happen because this one is onesided and I think its R/Hr because JKR did all things to let it be obvious that this will happen in OotP but it didn´t. I tell you why it didn´t happen and that is Hermione she don´t want, its look like, not Ron. The big surprise ship will be Neville and Ginny (Our beloved sister ship).
You know this scene at King Cross everytime only PoA not is it Hermione who say at last good bye to Harry. You know how that sound to me it sound that the next time will this good bye a little bit different something the line romantic. JKR do play with that picture and I expect she will use it. If I´m right than we will see H/Hr at the end of Book 6 and than book 7 in that book is the question who will survive Harry or Hermione or Ron. If Hermione died at the end than she won´t be in danger in book 6.I mean it is pretty rare that your first crush lasts for long. Ron and Hermione? I saw some progress, just the way tehy react to each other shows a strong bound but they are a bit blind. Benzo you disagree yourself somehow or not? I mean you say first crush don´t last long and Hermione have to be Rons first crush so it won´t last or even happen. I´m now wrong, I hope not.

then C/H !!!!!!!!!!!!!! granteed

I haven't posted very much, but when I saw the passage about Harry and Hermione hurting(or trying to do so) each other in their arguements, I felt I had to respond. Looking back over their arguements, one thing has stood out in my mind. In all the arguements, Harry rages against the truth that Hermione has brought to the arguement rather than Hermione herself. Harry's reactions are simply that, reactionary, and understandable under the circumstances. Painful and terrible though they may be, Hermione's devotion(be it platonic or romantic) to Harry does not swerve in the face of his rages. She takes no joy in being the one to contradict Harry because what she has to say is painful, but must be said in order to keep him safe. Neither one argue to get in the last word as with her bickering with Ron, but argue about an important issue such as loyalty or the direction of how a life and death situation should go. Harry doesn't reflect on the rightness of his arguement as much as the hurt he feels and Hermione certainly takes no pleasure from them either. She reluctantly brings her points across, saddened by her knowledge rather than her usual confidence in showing that she knows more(like with Ron in their light bickering matches).

Starting in POA, deep down he knew that what she did concerning the Firebolt was the right thing to do, but that didn't stop the completely human reaction to being denied something so tempting. Their arguements in OotP demonstrate this more than ever. Beginning with his hurt and feelings of betrayal at Ron and Hermione keeping him in the dark along with everyone else, Hermione takes no pleasure in telling him they couldn't tell him and I took her tears to mean that not only was she so upset at seeing Harry angry, but saddened by having to be a part of that pain as well. Throughout OotP, Hermione has the burden of being the one who has to remind Harry of the truths of the situation, even that part of himself he doesn't want to admit to when she reminds him of his need to be the rescuer. She touches on his fear that it could all be a trick, not to hurt him, but to help him see that there is a weaknesses that could be trouble in the future. And as it turned out, she was right. But even as Harry feels betrayed and frustrated at Hermione's reluctance to believe that Harry's dreams are real, the readiness at which he takes her plan and recognizes her loyalty to him in going with him to Umbridge's office, IMO, says more about how much he really needs her to be at his side. The lightheadedness he felt when he realized she was okay after the attack in the Dept. Of Mysteries only gives us a hint of the deep emotion that he has for her. There is such a strong enough bond between Harry and Hermione that something like bringing up a possible character flaw,contradicting each other, or a fiery tirade is nothing in the face of possibly losing each other. They need each other's approval so much so, that any true disagreement is very jarring and neither need so much to be right as to be back in tune with each other.

Originally posted by FlyingPhoenix (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=399301#post399301))I mean you say first crush don´t last long and Hermione have to be Rons first crush so it won´t last or even happen. I´m now wrong, I hope not.

Madam Rosmerta was the first person we saw Ron exhibiting feelings for, back in PoA (he blushed and offered to get the drinks). And his attraction to Fleur seemed to precede any feelings for Hermione (or at least recognition of them). So she's not his first crush.

Anyway the R/H romance has always seem one sided to me, Hermione never really reciprocates Ron's feelings. If anything she seems to tolerate Ron for the sake of her friendship with Harry.

Notice how Hermione gave both boys the same Xmas gift? JK wants us to keep guessing till book 6 I think.

Orginal by Wolf:Notice how Hermione gave both boys the same Xmas gift? JK wants us to keep guessing till book 6 I think.
I think its for one reason the same because Harry isn´t any longer in the quiditch team. She couldn´t give him something about quiditch and she didn´t do it by Ron, too because she know how hard that would be for Harry.And his attraction to Fleur seemed to precede any feelings for Hermione (or at least recognition of them). So she's not his first crush. I´m confused. First I said Ron fancy Fleur the response to that was: Its not true its only because she is half veela. Now I say Hermione is his first crush. Suddenly Fleur is after all his first crush. Why that? How can she be his first crush if he never fancy her??? Between I did say that because I said that show how much he feels for Hermione that his feelings can´t be that deep if he ran direct to Fleur.
Help me I´m lost in this strange logic.

sone - If Hermione talked about Ron the way Luna did, there would not be any H/Hr posts.

Exactly. I just love the way you sum up everything into a one neat phrase.

GilyAnn - It becomes personal when they aim for the others ones feelings.

Doesn't fighting about the situation rather than something the other person did to make one angry show that they are not aiming for the other person's feelings?

I have no quotes to show for this now, as I do not have my book at hand, but it seems to me that Harry and Hermione do not aim for the other person's feelings - they don't usually make personal comments, and like Earendil said, are fighting about the situation.

-reads Hope1272's post-

Aha, that says most of what I wanted to say.

And I kind of noticed that Hermione is more emotional when arguing with Harry - why? Because they actually argue about issues that are far more important, unlike most of the trivial stuff Ron and Hermione like to 'bicker' about.

Wolfe - Notice how Hermione gave both boys the same Xmas gift? JK wants us to keep guessing till book 6 I think.

Someone mentioned that Harry's planner actually talks - we don't know if Ron's planner talks too, but if it doesn't... ;)

[edit] I think if JKR wanted to show that both Harry and Ron receive the same presents, she would probably have just shown us that Ron's planner talked too - strange how she seemingly goes out of the way to show that it talks, no?

Hi all…
I’m not sure if some of you have already posted about this… I’m new here.
I was just wondering how Ron will be like in book 6. It is obvious that he likes Hermione and I wonder how he will tell her about his feelings. If it is true that Hermione doesn’t have any deep feelings for him… What will happen if he tells her?

Quote:

"I think its for one reason the same because Harry isn´t any longer in the quiditch team. She couldn´t give him something about quiditch and she didn´t do it by Ron, too because she know how hard that would be for Harry."

But why the same gifts? why not two completly diffrent gifts that the boys will like, and have nothin to do with quidditch?

I think it's JKR's attempt to hide Hermione's feelings for either boys.

Originally posted by Erise (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=399404#post399404))
Someone mentioned that Harry's planner actually talks - we don't know if Ron's planner talks too, but if it doesn't... ;)

Given how obnoxious that planner was ("Don't put it off 'til later, you second-rater!"), I'm not sure I'd take a talking version as proof of affection...quite the opposite. ;)

-chuckles- I have to agree with you on that, Rowena...

But hmmm... Isn't it like a version of Hermione's reminders that Harry can carry around? Except far more obnoxious, that is.

-thinks that she's not making any sense and is opening more holes instead of sealing them.-

Obnoxious as it was though - isn't it the thought that matters? Fact is, according to the book it's suggested that Harry's is the one that can talk, not Ron. She put a bit more thought into Harry's. She was also pretty anxious for him to use it as seen later in the book.

What people mean about that fact that it talks is that she placed alot more effort into either making it talk or getting one that would talk rather than just getting a normal one like she did for ron I think, thanks

Tuck in, everyone. My reply is a doozy. I can’t help it! There’s so much to talk about!

So, what did you think of Harry and Cho?

I liked that Harry explored his attraction to Cho. I, myself, am not a Harry/Cho shipper, so I was ecstatic that his infatuation fizzled, but, in all honesty, I didn’t expect to go anywhere anyway. Harry got to realize his crush and realized that the crush was much better than the reality, as is often the case (if I remember my elementary and high school days correctly. ;) )


Was Cho attempting to have a relationship with Cedric vicariously through Harry? What were her motivations?

Truthfully, I was very annoyed with Cho. She was a girl with baggage that was trying to reclaim what she had with Cedric with the one person that was closest to him at his death – Harry. I felt bad for what she went through, but the sympathy melted away when it became clearer that she, perhaps unintentionally, used Harry to make herself feel better or else give her closure about Cedric. She didn’t really like Harry for Harry but, as rotsie implies, is “attracted” to him for whom he reminded her of (i.e. Cedric.)

Plus, she just epitomized, to me, the “typical” high school girl that’s concerning herself too much and too early with boys and “relationships,” taking Harry to where the other Hogwarts couples hang out in Hogsmeade and what not. Girlfriend made a scene like a drama queen! Can’t stand people like that.

Ginny: I dig that Ginny was the little vixen, what with dating two boys and having no qualms about Ron or Harry knowing. It revealed how much more she is maturing as a character and being this independent, strong person. Much like Fred and George implied in the book, dynamite comes in small packages: Ginny is definitely not one to underestimate. It was a little jarring to have her be so different from the Ginny we used to know, but still comforting to know that she’s no longer the little mouse the peeped around in Books 2 and 3.

As for Ron and Hermoine: I think their constant bickering was more a sign of Ron denying an attraction towards her than it being a sign that they are mutually denying feelings for one another. Hermoine has clearly shown exasperation with Ron’s immaturity, which is why I think she’s shown to write scrolls of parchment to Viktor Krum. Still, I think it hopeful for Ron/Hermoine shippers to realize that Ron is beginning to acknowledge that Hermoine is more than just “one-of-the-guys,” as implied by the fact that his Christmas present for Hermoine this year was a bottle of perfume. Still, it would be wise to take into account that Hermoine showed polite gratitude for his gift, rather than sincere enthusiasm.

”And that perfume is really unusual, Ron.”
-Hermoine, page 503.
In my head, I heard, “And the perfume is really....unusual, Ron,” as though Hermoine was searching for a polite way not to say, “stinks” or “potent.”

Harry and Hermoine: Mind you, I’m a Harry/Hermoine shipper, so I found it very comforting to find that Hermoine was much more enthusiastic about Harry’s gift. And, I liked that the gift revealed how much more Harry vibes with Hermoine on a mental, if not emotional, level.

”Thanks for the book, Harry!” [Hermoine] said happily. “I’ve been wanting the New Theory of Numberology for ages!
-page 503, OotP

The fact that he got her a book that she’s been “wanting...for ages” shows that Harry is in tune with what Hermoine loves and is concerned with. She was excited and ecstatic, as clearly denoted by the exclamation points, by Harry’s gift. To me, it’s reciprocity for the Broomstick Servicing Kit that Hermoine got for Harry for his 13th birthday, and reveals how Hermoine can be just as surprised at Harry’s attentiveness towards her as Harry is with regards to her attentiveness towards him (as reflected by his reaction to the kit in PoA.) After all, it was her gift that garnered the following reaction from Harry in PoA:

His heart gave a huge bound as he ripped back the paper and saw a sleek black leather case, with silver words stamped accross it, reading Broomstick Servicing Kit.

"Wow, Hermoine!" Harry whispered, unzipping the case to look inside....
-page 12, paperback version of PoA

And, well, let’s not forget, as I’m sure is already mentioned in earlier pages of the thread, how Harry told Hermoine, in reply to her suggestions of how he could have avoided the scene with Cho in Hogsmeade, that he doesn’t think Hermoine's ugly (page 572.) To me, this is just a backwards way of saying “I think your pretty,” and, well, is clearly an extension of how he reacted towards noticing the “pretty” Hermoine at the Yule Ball in GoF.

As for Hermoine’s reaction to Ron and Harry: I love and hate JK for keeping that in the dark and as ambiguous as many things are in Book 5, despite JK saying she’d give us some answers. To go back to the Christmas exchange scene, Hermoine is shown to give both Ron and Harry the same gift, and a nagging one at that. Plus, when Hermoine tells Harry, on page 572 of OotP, that he’s “worse than Ron,” it’s practically apparent that she doesn’t regard either of the boys in the way we all suppose Ron and Harry are beginning to regard her. Come to think of it, it’s as though she sees herself as an older-sister type in relation to the boys, more than a love interest. :sigh: Still, it gives us Harry/Hermoine shippers hope that she tags on “...well, no, you’re not” when telling Harry how he’s worse than Ron in understanding girls. Who knows what that can mean later on?

For now, I think that JK is implying, with Hermoine's attempts to not reveal to the boys that she's continued a lengthy correspondence with Viktor Krum, that Hermoine is more interested in exploring a relationship/friendship with Krum, the older, more "mature" guy, than she is in helping the boys decipher how they feel about her.

To conclude: Yes, I am very satisfied with the way JK handled the romantic revelations or implications in Book 5. She tackled quite a few aspects of becoming 14 and 15 years old, i.e. first relationships, crushes, beginning the game of trying to decipher your crushes actions, etc., and revealed that, yes, the trio is growing.

I liked that, despite the constant threat of death on Harry, he, as well as his closest companions, can still explore what it is to be a "regular" 14- and 15-year-old and coming into your emotions.

Well Sirius83 and Voritian said it all about Hermione's present for Harry =)

Hmmm I think my memory is perhaps failing me but this seems to be the first year Harry puts (more) thought into Hermione's present and Hermione appears to really appreciate it a lot for what I remember to be the first time too.

Anyone care to correct my failing memory?

Originally posted by Sirius83 (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=399515#post399515))
Obnoxious as it was though - isn't it the thought that matters? Fact is, according to the book it's suggested that Harry's is the one that can talk, not Ron. She put a bit more thought into Harry's. She was also pretty anxious for him to use it as seen later in the book.

Ron's wouldn't be as surprised as Harry would that a homework planner talks, though, so he wouldn't make particular note of that fact. And maybe he wasn't as annoyed by it. Hermione did seem to make something of an impression on him about getting his homework done on time.

I think the kiss on the cheek operates on similar principles. Assuming Hermione did give Harry one, we didn't hear about it because it wasn't as big a deal for him as for Ron. The novelty may have worn off after GoF.

pasalita, I heard "unusual" as being preceded by ellipses as well. But if that is how the line was meant to be read, why do you think Rowling didn't put any in the text? Simple misdirection?

Originally posted by Rowena Ravenclaw (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=399568#post399568))

pasalita, I heard "unusual" as being preceded by ellipses as well. But if that is how the line was meant to be read, why do you think Rowling didn't put any in the text? Simple misdirection?


To be honest, I don't know why it wasn't written that way by JK. But, for the life of me, it's the way I always hear it in my head. Perhaps by not writing Hermoine's response in that way, JK is showing how Hermoine is much more polite than I give her credit for in that her response was either prepared or rehearsed, as in "when I see Ron, I'll tell him that the perfume was "unusual."" ;)

I´m with pasalita "unusual" to discribe a gift isn´t a good word. If I discribe a gift from my "crush" as unusual please shoot me down thats well more as tactles.
Ron's wouldn't be as surprised as Harry would that a homework planner talks, though, so he wouldn't make particular note of that fact. And maybe he wasn't as annoyed by it. The problem with this thought is that we aren´t in Ron head so we don´t know if he like it or not. Harry did never say to Hermione that he don´t like it.

pasalita, I heard "unusual" as being preceded by ellipses as well. But if that is how the line was meant to be read, why do you think Rowling didn't put any in the text? Simple misdirection?

RR,

Why the misdirection if it's be established (as Hr/R shippers claim) in Gof? Why would JKR tell people to look in Gof for the clues they want only to misdirect them in OotP? It would appear then either JKR is slipping or has forgotten that she told people that Hermione's feelings where established in Gof. Which one?

Besides I still hold with my earlier post on the grammer that is used. Hermione truly appreciates Harry's gift and it reflects that Harry remembered that Hermione told him that Arithmancy is her favorite subject in POA. So Harry was listening to Hermione and remembered what Hermione said. Contrary to the arguements that Harry never noticed Hermione that I keep seeing.

Now Ron's gift is unusal. When I get told a gift is unusual I don't think that gift went over too well. Number 2 Hermione is not the type of girl who glams herself up so why the perfume? And why does JKR never mention Hermione wearing the perfume after Christmas or even on Christmas day for that matter? If JKR was going for misdirection wouldn't Harry have noticed an unusual scent coming from Hermione perhaps on Valentines Day? Or when Hermione was telling Harry that he should have said how ugly she was?

So why would JKR employ misdirection for these gifts and then drop it completely for the rest of the books?

As for Hermione's gift to Harry. Simple. Harry was behind and she wanted him to get better organized. Besides can you fault the girl. She had 2 great gifts in the past. The Broom cleaning kit and the book Quiddich through the ages. Both of which Harry loved and used on more than one occasion and was shown to be using more than once (a contrast to Ron's unusual gift which is never heard of again). And I will draw to your attention that the book that JKR names when Harry is packing to leave with the OotP is none other than Quiddich through the Ages which was given to him by Hermione. I think that Hermione can have one bad gift. Besides she meant well.

Cheers!

Wasn't Quidditch Through The Ages a library book Harry borrowed in PS? Because they were going to fly for the first time? And that's how they found that Snape had his leg injured by Fluffy. If I may recall correctly, Hermione gave Harry a book called Quidditch Teams of Britain and Ireland, or something along those lines.

One of my favourite lines of the book - 'Good for you. Just choose someone - better - next time.' He cast Harry an oddly furtive look as he said it.

Teeheehee Ron wants Harry to be with Ginny!

I have no idea when the "Hermoine's feelings are established in GoF" interview was, but Hermoine's feelings could have changed.

AND here's a little stupid thought of mine, JKR's said that she's only writing for herself and fans, and the whole ("Harry and Hermoine, you think so?") interview thing - she might pair up R/Hr - but she could've considered changing her plans and making H/Hr a couple sometime in the later books.

So what I meant was..
Although they (R/Hr) will most likely get together, they'll break up and Harry and Hermoine end up together in book 7. Atleast I really hope so.

EDIT: Uh oh I noticed this should've been in a different topic.

Harry will not end up with Hermione. JKR has confirmed this on several occasions. First, she's said unequivocally their relationship is "very platonic." Second, when Katie Couric suggested that Harry and Hermione were shagging, JKR looked all horrified like, "Um.......NO." Then she went on to say, "Harry and Hermione? Do you think so? RON and Hermione, more like..." Third, JKR has stated that Harry will get together with someone who's been in all the books--but NOT Hermione. (*cough cough* Ginny *cough cough*) Fourth, on Dateline this June she FLAT OUT says no Harry/Hermione, yes Ron/Hermione - "they have more of that tension." What more do y'all want? ; )

Let's not forget this is first and foremost a children's book. There are very overt, undeniable signs of Ron/Hermione (which JKR has told us over and over is happening) and really no clear evidence for Harry/Hermione. I don't think she is going to try and spring a surprise romance on readers or write some tragic soap opera triangle. She wants to make the romance fairly obvious so kids will expect it, root for it, and be satisfied when it happens.

I think people are reading WAY too much into Harry/Hermione's interactions. Yes, their friendship has grown. But there's nothing to suggest that they have romantic feelings for each other. Hermione couldn't care less that Harry likes Cho, and Harry couldn't care less that Hermione's writing to Krum. They are very close, but as friends.

Harry will end up with Ginny. JKR is totally setting this up. Now that Ginny's gotten over her mad crush, they will become friends, Harry will eventually realize she's more than Ron's little sister, and then they'll have a relationship. The new Ginny is perfect for Harry: straightforward, strong, direct, loyal, with a good heart. She understands Harry, reassures him, comforts him, but will also stand up to him when he's being pratty. Also, in CoS, which JKR said has lots of subtle clues, Draco tells Harry wrt Ginny, "Potter, you've got yourself a girlfriend." Yup, he sure has.

One more clue: JKR has said that King's Cross Station is where her parents met and that it's the most romantic place in the world. Who met Harry at King's Cross Station? Ginny.

Harry and Ginny, Ron and Hermione. Bet you anything.

(And this way, both Hermione and Harry marry into the Weasley family.)

Wasn't Quidditch Through The Ages a library book Harry borrowed in PS? Because they were going to fly for the first time? And that's how they found that Snape had his leg injured by Fluffy. If I may recall correctly, Hermione gave Harry a book called Quidditch Teams of Britain and Ireland, or something along those lines.

Your right and I'm wrong. Hermione did give Harry the book Quiddich Teams of Britian and Ireland and that is the book that he's packing up in OotP. Sorry. Quiddich Through the Ages is a library book and one that JKR wrote on the side for Comic Relief UK.

But the signifigance is still there. In fact Quiddich Teams of England and Ireland says alot. The book was given to Harry by Hermione and it combines Hermione's love of books with Harry's love of Quiddich. So it's a little of Harry and a little of Hermione.

Cheers!

Harry will not end up with Hermione. JKR has confirmed this on several occasions. First, she's said unequivocally their relationship is "very platonic." Second, when Katie Couric suggested that Harry and Hermione were shagging, JKR looked all horrified like, "Um.......NO." Then she went on to say, "Harry and Hermione? Do you think so? RON and Hermione, more like..." Third, JKR has stated that Harry will get together with someone who's been in all the books--but NOT Hermione. (*cough cough* Ginny *cough cough*) Fourth, on Dateline this June she FLAT OUT says no Harry/Hermione, yes Ron/Hermione - "they have more of that tension." What more do y'all want? ; )

Wow. I have not heard of some of those quotes, and if I have, I've heard them differently....Can you perhaps present or set up some links towards some of those chat transcripts or something because as I said, I have not heard of some of those before, and I've been here quite some time.... By the way, :welcome: to the forums!

Well, I will try to comment though.

First off, I don't see how JK saying that their relationship is "platonic, could possibly mean that they can't get together. You have to keep in mind that when we say that Harry and Hermione are going to get together, it is going to be much more different from Harry and Cho's. Which was a rather physically based relationship. Naturally, though, if they do get together, it doesn't mean that they are going to go in some secret passage way every time before class make out. It would be more, as she said, "platonic", but in no way says that a person can't get together just because they aren't going to be very intimate.

Secondly, about Katie Couric's question...I think she was leading us in one direction and meaning another, almost in a sarcastic tone. (given I am only guessing since I am looking at typed words :) )

And lastly:

Third, JKR has stated that Harry will get together with someone who's been in all the books--but NOT Hermione.

I remember her saying that he'll get together with someone who's been in all the books....but that part in bold escapes me. Then again it was a long time ago so if you could just present a link I would be thoroughly convinced of your deductions :)

Yeah and Voldi isn´t a bad guy, Malfoy is a little teddy bear, Sirius didn´t died and Harry hasn´t nasty nightmears all because its a children book. Well, something I did missing in this serie that JKr did say that this books for herself and not for any strange ideas.

Sorry, if it sound harsh. I really am. But sometimes its far if you say its all settle down that we allready know R/Hr and H/G gonna happen. She didn´t give it away. You can give me this quotes and interviews and I tell you she didn´t maybe I quote one of my shipmates who did a great job to bring it into words what I couldn´t:

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Katie: Any snogging with Hermione?
JKR: Hermione and Harry?! Do you think so?
Katie: No, haha, I'm just kidding!
JKR: Ron and Hermione, I would say, have...there's more tension there.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Based on the information from GoF, we can see that something is going on between Ron and Hermione. I think R/Hr shippers and H/Hr shippers can agree that Ron has a crush/something for Hermione. As an H/Hr shipper, I believe that Hermione doesn't like Ron as more-than-a-friend, while R/Hr shippers tend to believe that Hermione does feel something for Ron. Whether or not Hermione likes Ron or not isn't the point, the point is that there is tension in the R/Hr friendship.

Tension is created by...

The R/Hr shipper's view: Ron and Hermione have something between them, but they are not sure of their feelings or are to afraid to admit them, so tension is created.

The H/Hr shipper's view: Ron likes Hermione, but Hermione has no feelings for Ron. Since Hermione doesn't like Ron, tension is created because Hermione doesn't feel the same way that Ron does.

You all are probably wondering what my little tension view has to do with this quote. Well here is my view...

The JKR/Katie Couric interview was done before OotP, so essentially all of Katie Couric's questions were based on what she interpereted from the previous four books. Since we are some what in Harry's head, we know that he doesn't have feelings for Hermione. We know from reading GoF that Ron does have feelings for Hermione. So, naturally from reading the previous book, it is safe to assume that if any 'snogging' was to take place in OotP between trio members it would be between Ron and Hermione. Snogging between R/Hr was believed by a number of R/Hr shippers, (No generaliztion of R/Hr shippers, but on a number of R/Hr sights that I lurked on, some of the R/Hr shippers had this belief.) a few H/Hr shippers, and most of the OotP spoiler threads on websites had R/Hr listed as a couple in OotP. So the majority of fandom, (besides us poor H/Hr shippers) believed that Ron and Hermione snogging was more possible due to their 'tension.'

JKR even says if any snogging is to be taking place in OotP, it will probably be between Ron and Hermione due to their tension.

JK also uses her 'do you think their suited' question again towards Katie. Katie puts JK on the spot with H/Hr, so JK puts Katie on the spot with H/Hr. Then Katie says she is kidding and then JK makes her Ron-and-Hermione-have-more-tension comment.

Due to the fact that Ron and Hermione due not 'snog' on the lips in OotP, it is safe to assume (at least in my opinion) that the only 'tension' between Ron and Hermione is unreciprocated(?sp) feelings.

So in conclusion, I do not believe JKR lied. I believe that she stated that if any snogging between trio members was to take place in OotP, it would be between R/Hr.

cookiemonster,

Quote:
Harry will not end up with Hermione. JKR has confirmed this on several occasions. First, she's said unequivocally their relationship is "very platonic." Second, when Katie Couric suggested that Harry and Hermione were shagging, JKR looked all horrified like, "Um.......NO." Then she went on to say, "Harry and Hermione? Do you think so? RON and Hermione, more like..." Third, JKR has stated that Harry will get together with someone who's been in all the books--but NOT Hermione. (*cough cough* Ginny *cough cough*) Fourth, on Dateline this June she FLAT OUT says no Harry/Hermione, yes Ron/Hermione - "they have more of that tension." What more do y'all want? ; )

Actually Katie said that Americans might not know what SNOGGING IS and so she said it is KISSING NOT SHAGGING. Also you said JKR looked like she was saying UHHH... NO, how did you get that. I never knew you could see words when someone wasent saying them. Well you learn something new every day, thanks.

Edit:
Also in almost none of her interviews is she refering to the ENTIRE series or books, she is generally refering to the one she is either about to release or the one she just has (except when she said that Harry might not live in the end).

-EDIT: To combine double posts. Please use the edit function instead of double posting. Thanks! pasalita-

Couric: “Any snogging with Hermione?”
Rowling: “Harry and Hermione! Do you think so?”
Couric: “No I’m kidding. We should probably explain that snogging means kissing.”
Rowling: “Yeah.”
Couric: “Lest people think they were shagging!”
Rowling: “Lest people think you’re talking about something completely inappropriate.”

Ok this is the EXACT Text from that Dateline interview. And here is the address to where the text is also from Dateline.
http://www.msnbc.com/news/928765.asp#BODY
I think you see it says nothing about Ron anywhere hear (wow people just make stuff up all the time).

Okay. While this debate about what JK said and what she hasn't in interviews regarding the relationship aspect of the HP books is informational, let's get back to the topic at hand, as originally posted by rotsiepots:

Was/were the Book 5 romances/revelations all that you expected it/them to be?

Also, a quick reminder: There is no right or wrong answer here. Everyone's opinion will be different depending on how one ships. Differences in opinion don't take away from the validity of how one person interprets/analyzes the book from another person. They're just different ways of looking at what is being presented. Please do NOT put down someone else's opinion (i.e. via sarcasm or what not) merely because you disagree with it or ship differently.

Moreover, if you care to continue discussing which of the kids will end up together and what not, then please contribute to the Book SIX: Who will fall in love with who? (http://cosforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=11218) thread instead.

Thank you.

Grr! I just lost an epic-length post in response to fishie76's post further up by doing something completely stupid. :banghead: Okay, I'll attempt to revive it on the Book Six thread later, when I'm not so annoyed. *feels like a moron*

One thing I noticed about the romance was that I was expecting waaay too much, because they're 15 in this book and I assumed that the hormones would rage much more than they did. Good thing they didn't--Harry had enough to deal with as it was. The problem is, I expected there to be more answers for the shipping debate, so now it's starting to seem that she's leaving all the shippy stuff for the last two books....or that she will continue to make it as vague as it has been to leave it up to the reader's imagination? :scared: I hope not: I would definitely like some answers.

I can't resist saying this about the quotes: JK is very careful to remain vague enough in her interviews to allow the readers to speculate. Not once does she say, "Ron and Hermione will get together. End of story. I will never write anything about Harry and Hermione being together." I definitely agree that she's steering us toward R/Hr by what she *says*, but IMHO what she *writes* is much more clearly H/Hr-inclined. And as the author, she has every right to subtly divert the reader's attention through her verbal responses from what is actually happening in the text. She may want to surprise some of us, for all we know.

Okay, I may have mixed up all these Dateline/KC interviews, and I apologize. Don't recall what she said where. However, she still did say all of it, just maybe not in the right interview. Sorry!

Anyway, DATELINE is a TV show. The interview with Rowling and Couric I referred to was televised. If you watched it Rowling does make a "UM NO" face, at least IMHO. I can't find a video online, but there are plenty of people who saw it and will vouch for her reaction. (Here is some random livejournal I found of someone who saw it; she writes about it. http://216.239.39.100/search?q=cache:12fATlECOjMJ:www.livejournal.com/users/midgewood58/+rowling+katie+couric+%22harry+and+hermione%22&hl=en&ie=UTF-8. Search for "Harry and Hermione." )

As for the other interviews, I'm looking for links but they're hard to find considering how many Rowling interviews there are out there. I assure you I didn't make it up though.

Also, Chris Columbus has said more or less straight out that he directed the kids to show tension between Ron and Hermione in CoS. In the CoS DVD extras, Rowling confirms this.

We'll see for sure in Books 6 and 7 anyway.

With regards to the quotes...it is important to remember that:
1) JKR never actually gives away her plot lines
2) She has never actually said H/Hr will NEVER happen
3) She has said R/Hr have more tension - doesn't mean R/Hr happens - and no, tension does not necessarily mean a relationship
4) Columbus does not write the books
5) JKR on the COS interview says between the three of them - not between Ron and Hermione only

Think about it properly. If you are an author, are you going to sit back and give away what's to come? No. In fact, if you look at her interviews properly, she does not tell you what's actually coming in the future. She does many things in her interviews - confirm a future plot line is not one of them.

"Was/were the Book 5 romances/revelations all that you expected it/them to be?"

To be quite honest..... unexpectedly yes. One thing I knew Harry had to get out of the way before he would get with anybody else was Cho Chang. I thought their relationship of "sorts" was really well done.

Harry/Ginny - This is the only relationship I would hate to happen because I honestly do not see where there is any chemistry between the two. Yeah, it would be a sweet relationship......if Harry happen to take any notice of Ginny at all. He has not even once had a thought of saying how pretty she is. There is absolutely no sign from Harry that he is interested in her. Even Ginny got the message and she has been going out with other boys. Not only did she not even bother to ask Harry to the Yule Ball but Ron wants Harry to get with Ginny. That has got to tell you something. Most importantly, it is too easy.

Harry/Luna - this is also interesting but Luna likes Ron far more. I'm sorry but the girl is singing under her breath "Weasley is our King" in a conversation that has nothing with the subject of Quidditch or Ron. Yeah, Harry and Luna share a connection.....they both have experienced death. It's cute but it is not romance or love or whatever we want to call it. It's a bond and it is important but not that kind of bond. Like I said before, if Hermione was talking about Ron the way Luna was, there would be no H/Hr posts. How anybody can think that Luna likes Harry more than Ron is beyond me.

Ron/Luna - It was nice to see someone actually like Ron with all his strengths and faults. I won't go any further than that.

Ron/Hermione - This one is going just what I thought it was. An argument war. These two argue even about how many times they disarmed the other. What you very rarely see here is compromise. Not to mention, it is too obvious. Ron's feelings are not at all subtle.

Harry/Hermione - This is building exactly (very, very surprisingly) as I saw it. Subtle. Not obvious at all. As a matter of fact, you would just miss it. It looks like it draws away when it is actually drawing closer. For example, Harry and Hermione themselves have not flat out been jealous of anyone they have gone out with. But the people they have gone out with are jealous of Harry and Hermione one way or the other. "Hermione talks about you (Harry) very often", "You (Harry) can talk to Hermione Granger, but you can't talk to me". You have to think what would make them jealous in the first place. They both have to know that Harry and Hermione are just friends right?

Sorry - on the topic of this thread, yes it was, but it was quite a surprise. I did expect it to be kept low key and what not, but i did not expect it to have so much H/Hr in it. I'm glad H/C is done and over with...she wasn't suited to him anyway. :p I'm also glad that Ginny is no longer a little girl crushing after Harry...i can finally read her character and not find her annoying.

Originally posted by Ecthelion (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=400135#post400135))
Wow. I have not heard of some of those quotes, and if I have, I've heard them differently....Can you perhaps present or set up some links towards some of those chat transcripts or something because as I said, I have not heard of some of those before, and I've been here quite some time.... By the way, :welcome: to the forums!



I remember her saying that he'll get together with someone who's been in all the books....but that part in bold escapes me. Then again it was a long time ago so if you could just present a link I would be thoroughly convinced of your deductions :)


Good Luck.

I've been looking for that quote extensively for well over 10 days and can't find a clue to it. (even typed that phrase and variants on it in google and nothing)

IT was in an interview prior to GoF... she was talking about Parvati Patil, whom Harry took to the Yule Ball. It was a GoF specific quote.

Originally posted by LizardLaugh (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=400883#post400883))
IT was in an interview prior to GoF... she was talking about Parvati Patil, whom Harry took to the Yule Ball. It was a GoF specific quote.


What quote are you refering too? the "he will be with someone who was there from the beginning one? I'm a tad bit lost <g>

Originally posted by Kiki Mv540 (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=399199#post399199))
I suspect that ALL R/Hr romantic activity took place in Grimwuald(or however its spelled) Place in harry's absence. The fact that Ron and Hermione were, for at least a month, quite busy must've incited SOME character development. I think that this activity is carrying on in secret surfacing only when Ron and Hermione are alone, and will rise in full later in the series.


ROFLOL.

To coin an old theather adage.

If it ain't on the page, it ain't on the stage.

I thought the Cho/Harry thing deffinitely wouldn't work. She seems to be a prep or something. Or too upset.
Personally, I'm deffinitely seeing a Harry/Luna type thing. They can relate to eachother and is sort of an outcast... Just like him. He seems to be the only person other than Ginny that understands her. He stopped his thoughts about Sirius for a little while to feel sorry that people were taking her stuff.

I think the whole passage when someone said they got together in their 7th year foreshadows the relationships forming in the 7th book.

I was definetely disappointed that nothing happened between Ron and Hermione. Ron needs to wake up! He's making me angry! But I suppose that would make things very awkward for Harry...

well i guess it just a repeat look at James and lily .... they fought the first few years and get VERY well in the 7th year .. and maybe in the sixth book we could see that no more quarrels between Harry and Cho cause Cho could have stable and chose the one and forget bout dorey ( or whatever dunno how 2 spell )and Cho's last year is in the sixth year so we can be expect harry sending love letters to her in the 7th book

Okay thank you for basically answering Gily for me Earendil and Hope. You guys said everything I couldn't. :clappy:

Pasalita great post! :clappy:

Hawk, I should have known that your not posting meant you were hunting. Thank you for answering my questions.

Gily, you know that I love you right. I do see what you mean about Ginny, but just not the whole hurting one another thing. :sigh: :sorry:

Off to the 6th Year love thread! :D

Off to the 6th Year love thread ! ... lol ? ..... alas no more comments ... fomr me hahahahaa

Originally posted by fishie76 ([url=http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?pothere are out there. I assure you I didn't make it up though.

Also, Chris Columbus has said more or less straight out that he directed the kids to show tension between Ron and Hermione in CoS. In the CoS DVD extras, Rowling confirms this.


No, Rowling doesn't confirm R/H. What she says is:

"Chris in the 2nd film has kind of foreshadowed what I don't do until the 4th book which is that you get hints of certain feelings between the three of them that belong to a slightly more mature person"

Between the three of them. Not between 2 of them, not between 4 of them, but between the 3 of them. That comment in and of itself says that she wrote hints for H/Hr and hints for R/Hr.

When we left 4th year these "certain feelings" had yet to be resolved which implies that they carried over into OotP. And at the end of 5th year, though we got some hints towards both H/Hr and R/Hr ships in addition to a few twigs in other directions the issue was still unresolved.

And I have the distinct impression it will be unresolved until just before the climax in book 7 (since i strongly suspect that love is going to rear its pesky head once again and strike Voldie down. For good this time)

.

ok.. so Ginny was with one guy, it was coming... she was bound to get over Harry sooner or later but we don't know if she was just teasing Ron about being with Dean do we?

As for Harry and Cho, she seemed so nice but i think after Cedrics death she got to caught up in crying and trying to replace Cedric with Harry... maybe feeling they might be the same person, but of course as Hermione says she felt gulity about being with Harry.

Ron and Hermione! there were so many hints in the previous books of them having a romance.. and then in this book? basically nothing! i think they should get together. i spose its like this: they annoy each other so much that their starting to like one another

ron and hermione need to hook up soon b4 there relationship turns into "i see you as an annoying sib." But ron was complementing her alot and he did freak over the kiss on the cheek so there is still a chance.

ginny may have moved on but can you ever really get over your crush of someone how is a living hero who saved you life... I don't think I ever could if I was ginny

and for harry I just can't even think about who or if he should be with someone. She would have to be a pretty centered girl to deal w/ all harry's stuff and not bring him down with hers... now that I think of it ginny would be really good for harry :D. But I kinda wanna see more luna

ohh my gosh! luna likes ron! and yeah i think deep down ginny still might like harry but ... i dunno if i want them to get together

i would like to c this though ..... C/H Hr/R and G/N

why am i the only one who thinks Ron and Hermione would not be a good couple? Ron needs someone much more layback. Hermione needs someone with some brains.

i dunno.. but thats why they are good together.. ron is so layed back that he needs someone to boss him around i suppose they are complete opposites which is maybe why i think they are good together

mmm.... i am too Hr/R

Hr/R ??? hermione and ron? is that what it means?

yep

Hr/R = hermione and ron

C/H = cho and harry

G/N = ginny/neville

but hermione and ron so fit together especially in this book you can see they are like a mini mr. and mrs.weasly. Mrs. weasly does the work and mr. is laid back... harry even thinks at one point that they are acting like mr. and mrs. weasly.:love:

I just don't see the luna ron thing :??: 2 pts. ppl have made to support them don't make since to me... When she helped carry pig it was because harry was trying to carry both owls and her singing "ron is our king" is making fun of him not liking him

Check this one everyone and tell me what you think

This is a Future prediction:

Neville & Ginny
Harry & Hermione (it fits)
Ron and Luna (common one of the Weasleys needs a girl with Red hair)

hehe Mark my words!

This topic is currently being discussed in a thread entitled Book Five Romance -- was it all you were expecting? (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=11227)

If you're ever unsure whether a topic has been started previously, please use the search (http://www.cosforums.com/a/search.php) function located at the top left-hand corner of your screen.

Thanks -- I'll close this now. :)

Merged with the Romance Thread.

Originally posted by hightideorlowtide (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=401732#post401732))
Check this one everyone and tell me what you think

This is a Future prediction:

Neville & Ginny
Harry & Hermione (it fits)
Ron and Luna (common one of the Weasleys needs a girl with Red hair)

I don't think that Ron and Luna would have any relationship. Like everyone else ron thinks Luna is a bit of a weirdo.

Hightideorlowtide, I agree on Harry-Hermione. If we could throw in a calmer Cho Chang to complicate things for Harry, all the better. But at the end, definitely Harry-Hermione.

i Dont think harry and hermione suit... sorry but its hermione and ron all the way
a calmer Cho would be better.. but somehow even though i dont want it to happen i think ginny and harry will end up together somehow....and i think luna likes ron

Ron and Hermione is going to happen! its getting way more obvious!... as for Cho and Harry i dont think anything else is going to happen between them. he doesn't have feelings for her anymore. Luna likes Ron but Ron is to busy with hermione and getting jelous over her "relationship" with krum

Personally these are my pairs.

Harry and Ginny or Cho.(a new girl would be the best)

Ron and Hermione or Luna

Bill and Fleur.

yeah.. thats exactly what will happen...
lupin, ron and neville are the best characters ever!!!

"why am i the only one who thinks Ron and Hermione would not be a good couple? Ron needs someone much more layback. Hermione needs someone with some brains."

You're telling me Ollivander. I have no idea.

"her singing 'ron is our king' is making fun of him not liking him"

Are you positive of that?

In response to fishie76's post regarding JKR's quotes about Harry and Hermione's platonicness. It seems R/Hr shippers seem convinced from the quotes that Harry and Hermione are platonic through JRK's quotes. If they think this is true, then JKR's other quotes regarding GoF - something along the lines of - that they like the wrong people - so this means:

Harry > Cho
Ron > Hermione
Hermione > Krum
Ginny > Harry

In OotP we basically see all these ships sink. So if R/Hr's say that Harry and Hermione are platonic based on JKR's quotes, then that means the R/Hr ship is a goner also based on JKR's quotes.

Plus I agree that H/Hr fit together, whether romantic or not, they compliment each other, understand each other, think on the same wavelengths, though R/Hr's might think this is a boring relationship because of this, it actually makes out to be a great long term relationship which we may see in books 6 or 7.

I do see that Ron defenitaly likes Hermione, but I dont see her returning any of those fellings. If someone can get me a quote from the book that DOESENT apply to them being friends that would be good, thanks

i think harry deserved beter than cho.......i kinda got the feeling that she was prying harry for info on how cedric diied. i mean "i really like u harry"........sheesh, how thick can u get
i was surprised that there was no hint of a ron-herm relationship......except certain hints from ron's side..*hem hem*
but hey i was shocked when i realized that herm might like harry, coz ive always bin a ron/herm shipper but....i dunno
when some1 asked jk wether there is gonna be anytin abt ron herm, she said yes theres sometin goin on but ron doesnt realize it yet, typical boy..........hmm...who knows?:love:

Originally posted by Voritian (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=402182#post402182))
I do see that Ron defenitaly likes Hermione, but I dont see her returning any of those fellings. If someone can get me a quote from the book that DOESENT apply to them being friends that would be good, thanks


The main question is then why hasn't Hermione gone out of her way to tell Ron 'let's just be friends'? And I'm fairly confident if they had had that sort of conversation we would have seen Ron venting to Harry about the whole affair. I don't think it's not because Hermione hasn't noticed. The fact is that she'd have to be amazingly blind not to, and some of her comments about Ron indicate she is paying attention to him. For that matter, why hasn't Ginny tried to discourage Ron? She's Hermione's best friend these days, from the look of it. She probably knows better than anyone what Hermione's feelings are for Ron.

Also, you have to be very very careful about the perception of their relationship. Remember the book is written from Harry's POV. Do you really think that Harry's presence might not be an inhibiting factor to any Ron/Hermione conversations. I would be far more suprirsed if Ron and Hermione didn't act differently when Harry wasn't around than when he was. It's one of the reasons why you can't really say that Hermione spends more time with Harry than with Ron in the book, because you miss all the off-camera stuff.

The fact is that Ron and Hermione do show plenty of evidence of spending time together without Harry, at the very least talking about him. Ron passes on a message from Hermione early in the book and later on, we find out that Hermione has been hearing from Ron about Harry's dreams continuing. More than once Harry has walked in on the two of them.

Then there is the question of why Hermione considers Ron denser than Harry. On what basis would Hermione make this judgement? The fact of the matter is Ron only was a blind idiot once, when Cho wanted to talk to Harry and Ron got in the way. Harry was the one who was actually fumbling more on camera in the book, from the view of it. I have no hard evidence, but a simple explanation is that when Ron and Hermione have been alone together she has dropped a few hints or tried to move things along and Ron has totally missed the point. Ron is interested but he hasn't quite stepped over the line and asked her out on a date, which no doubt she finds totally frustrating.

I can see Hermione being shy about talking to Ron directly. It has been made very clear over the books that Hermione is no more emotionally mature than any other girl her age, especially in her first and second year (remember her crush on Lockheart? That took a lot of willful blindness). I do not think she would be shy about letting Ron down about a romance with her. For that matter, she didn't seem to hit the roof over Harry telling Krum that he and Hermione were just friends.

Then there is the curious fact of Hermione pointing out that Luna is after Ron. Or the fact that Hermione didn't point out that Luna is after Ron, whereas she was pointing out that Cho was after Harry. I do not think that Hermione is so noble as to help a rival out, personally. Of course, it could be the fact that Hermione doesn't approve of Luna, but then that doesn't explain why Ginny, who strikes me as more Luna's friend than Hermione, hasn't pointed anything out to her brother either. And Ginny is Hermione's best friend these days from the look of it.

In short, there has been no signs of discouragement of Ron's attention from the two people most likely to give it to him, Ginny and Hermione herself. There has been absolutely zero signs of encouragement of a Ron/Luna pairing, which you would expect Hermione to do if she was not interested in Ron. The kindest thing to do would be to push her in the direction of Luna, even if she really didn't approve of the girl. Ginny would also be doing the same and we've seen no signs of that either. With the most socially aware students in the book not discouraging Ron from Hermione and encouraging him towards Luna, I tend to take that as evidence of which way the wind blows.

"The kindest thing to do would be to push her in the direction of Luna, even if she really didn't approve of the girl. Ginny would also be doing the same and we've seen no signs of that either. With the most socially aware students in the book not discouraging Ron from Hermione and encouraging him towards Luna, I tend to take that as evidence of which way the wind blows."

I guess I kind of missed the point, that being a long post and all, but if Ginny isn't pushing Ron into Luna's direction (and I hardly think Ginny loves her brother), then does it really count as evidence (R/Hr) if Hermoine doesn't either? I did notice you put "kindest thing to do" though.

why am i the only one who thinks Ron and Hermione would not be a good couple? Ron needs someone much more layback. Hermione needs someone with some brains.

Believe me, Ollivander, you're not the only one who thinks that. :D

Mutant for Hire, nice post! However, I respectfully disagree about Hermione being "shy" about discouraging Ron's feelings for her. Hermione is a smart girl: she can read people pretty well. As Ron is one of her best friends, it's pretty clear that she knows him and understands his thoughts and actions to some extent. She knows about his insecurity over the fame/wealth issue, and she knows about his extreme anxiety over succeeding at Quidditch. And, most importantly, she knows that Ron has feelings for her at this point.

And the fact that she knows this gives her two options: to discourage him from pursuing the relationship because she doesn't reciprocate his feelings, or to keep quiet about the whole thing to risk stirring up more tension and drama within the trio. Similarly, if she did reciprocate his feelings, why hasn't she shown signs of encouraging him?

If she were to discourage him outright by telling him that she doesn't like him as anything more than a friend, I would bet my life that Ron would fly off the handle and then go sulk for about a week. The kid already has insecurity issues over Harry's constant attention and success; then to lose his crush to Harry as well? Yes, Ron definitely appeared to have gotten past alot of this bitterness in OotP, but I can't see him being to chipper over Hermione telling him that they have no chance together. Especially if Hermione does have feelings for Harry at this point. That would just make things downright messy with the trio, and Hermione would know that in light of everything else happening both inside and outside Hogwarts, the trio needs to stick together to help Harry get through the tough times.

About Hermione and Ron spending time together when Harry isn't there: it's true that plenty of stuff happens off-stage, but if any of it was significant, we would know about it by now. Their month together in Grimmauld Place would have been a terrific opportunity to expand on their relationship and have Harry find out about it the hard way (like from Fred or George--eep), but it seems to me that the only alone time that we hear about from R/Hr is the time they spend discussing Harry--i.e. when they agree to stop arguing to make Harry happy, when Ron tells Hermione about Harry's nightmares, their first few Hogsmeade visits when we only see them discussing what to bring Harry from Honeydukes. If they were having cozy chats together sans Harry, it would be important enough for us to hear about it by now. I sincerely hope that JK isn't planning to spring this sudden and violently passionate relationship between R/Hr on us in the last two books, when we've only had the vaguest and most inconclusive hints about how they can operate peacefully without Harry in the past five books.

Again, I'm straying into the Book Six thread's territory. :sorry: *dashes off to continue chattering over yonder*

There are some girls love the boys expect Harry in book 5, but I think it is inevitable.
Harry is a so perfect boy, at the same time he can't be everyone's boyfriend.
I like Luna, she is exceptional.
Ron have a girl who admires him at least in case Hermion loves Harry.

http://www.gznet.com/ev/2002-04-03/radA9E52.jpg

Ron and Hermione fight so much they might as ell already be married.

Just my opinion, but I believe that Hermione really likes Harry, but she does not think he likes her. I think her giving "girl" advice and her questions about Cho are Hermione's way of seeing where she stands with him. She knows that Harry has liked Cho ever since their third year. Between that, Cho's sudden attraction to Harry and what he has been going through lately, I think Hermione figured it may not be the best time to tell him anything about her feelings towards him. Especially if Cho was going out with Harry which seemed evident and inevitable to Hermione.

I also think this is why she was very disappointed overall about not spending more time with Harry to find out more about where she stood. The fact that she couldn't write him anything useful over the summer, when he needed her and ron most (the hug that nearly knocked him flat), she missed Harry big time. Ron even said it himself that Hermione was really upset about writing Harry useless letters. The fact that she couldn't be a prefect alongside Harry, left her I thought thoroughly put out. Then when she asked Harry to sew those hats for the elves. She knows by now that Harry and Ron are not the biggest fans of S.P.E.W. (though Harry is lot less insulting about it) but she had a real excitement about the whole thing, and was disappointed (though slighty) that Harry wouldn't be helping her. Then comes Cho. It was very subtle, but I think this was the worst for Hermione. Does it strike anybody funny that Hermione is the only one who knows that Cho was not able to take her eyes off of Harry during the Hog's Head meeting? Then she "cornered" him and kissed him. Hermione's slight frown along with the long letter I have to think was about Harry among other things. Knowing Hermione, she did not want to get in the way of one of the good things Harry might of had going for him. But as she found out, she did and sighed. So of course, she tells him what he should of done, completely putting herself down to the point where she says paraphrased "you should tell her, how ugly you think I am too." Harry, confused, flat out tells her "I don't think you're ugly." This is also strange to me. She laughs and then tells him he is worse than Ron....then adds "well, no you're not." I think she was a little taken aback by Harry's comment.

Then the train ride home, Hermione says "tentatively", "I heard she is going out with someone else now". I won't say she was hopeful, but she was (IMO) looking for Harry's reaction, seeing if it meant anything to him. It surprisingly does not. He is not even interested in who she is going out with. Hope springs eternal.

Originally posted by Earendil (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=402484#post402484))
*stuff snipped about Hermione's awareness*

And the fact that she knows this gives her two options: to discourage him from pursuing the relationship because she doesn't reciprocate his feelings, or to keep quiet about the whole thing to risk stirring up more tension and drama within the trio. Similarly, if she did reciprocate his feelings, why hasn't she shown signs of encouraging him?


The question is, would she encourage Ron in Harry's presence. Especially with Harry being a walking cloud of anger and pain these days. Whenever Harry shows up the issue tends to drift to Harry's problems. The question is, has Hermione been encouraging Ron when he is not around. And perhaps *that* is the reason that Hermione says that Ron is denser than Harry. She has tried to encourage him when they are alone together and he has been missing the point or losing his nerve.


If she were to discourage him outright by telling him that she doesn't like him as anything more than a friend, I would bet my life that Ron would fly off the handle and then go sulk for about a week. The kid already has insecurity issues over Harry's constant attention and success; then to lose his crush to Harry as well? Yes, Ron definitely appeared to have gotten past alot of this bitterness in OotP, but I can't see him being to chipper over Hermione telling him that they have no chance together. Especially if Hermione does have feelings for Harry at this point. That would just make things downright messy with the trio, and Hermione would know that in light of everything else happening both inside and outside Hogwarts, the trio needs to stick together to help Harry get through the tough times.

I tend to think that Hermione is intelligent enough to try to make a quick clean end of it quickly. I think she is more than aware that if she let it get to the point where Ron asked her out, and she turned him down, it would hurt him worse. Yes, Harry has a lot of problems, but if she was forced to reject Ron outright in favor of Harry, that causes worse damage than letting Ron down gently beforehand.. If she's as smart as you indicate she is. Remember she was encouraging Harry to notice that Cho was paying attention to him. Why didn't she do the same for Ron with Luna if she wasn't interested in him? Frankly that she did one and not the other tells me a bit about where her feelings lie.

About Hermione and Ron spending time together when Harry isn't there: it's true that plenty of stuff happens off-stage, but if any of it was significant, we would know about it by now. Their month together in Grimmauld Place would have been a terrific opportunity to expand on their relationship and have Harry find out about it the hard way (like from Fred or George--eep), but it seems to me that the only alone time that we hear about from R/Hr is the time they spend discussing Harry--i.e. when they agree to stop arguing to make Harry happy, when Ron tells Hermione about Harry's nightmares, their first few Hogsmeade visits when we only see them discussing what to bring Harry from Honeydukes. If they were having cozy chats together sans Harry, it would be important enough for us to hear about it by now. I sincerely hope that JK isn't planning to spring this sudden and violently passionate relationship between R/Hr on us in the last two books, when we've only had the vaguest and most inconclusive hints about how they can operate peacefully without Harry in the past five books.

Again, I don't think anything is happening in those conversations and that is the main reason that Hermione is so put out with Ron, calling him worse than Harry when it comes to being dense about women.

And with respect to another post on the fact that Ginny hasn't been pushing Ron towards Luna, let me go into more detail. It is clear that Ginny and Hermione have been talking together a lot. Hermione knows things about Ginny that even her brothers don't know, such as the fact that she used to break into the broom shed to practice flying. What are the odds that Ginny has not asked Hermione about her friend's feelings for her brother? If the answer was they were just friends, I doubt that Hermione would have held back. I'm not sure that if Hermione was interested, she could necessarily keep her reactions from Ginny.

The fact is that if anyone knows Hermione's real feelings about Ron, it's Ginny. And Ginny is not so heartless as to want to see Ron heartbroken (Percy is another story). And for that matter if Ron does ask Hermione out and gets rejected, it could end the friendship between them and Ginny could well get stuck in the middle between Ron and Hermione. Wouldn't a sane person try to deflect Ron's interest in another direction before things blew out?

In short, I find the lack of encouragement by Ginny or Hermione of Ron towards Luna hinting at the fact that Hermione has an interest in Ron. Hermione isn't going to set Ron up with a rival and Ginny isn't going to be causing problems between her best friend and her brother.

The question is, would she encourage Ron in Harry's presence. Especially with Harry being a walking cloud of anger and pain these days.


Why not? Harry is going out with Cho, why would he be jealous of them?

Also the question why has Hermione pushed Harry towards Cho and not Ron towards Luna?

Simple. Ron does not like Luna. Remember the last time Hermione tried to encourage Ron go out with someone he didn't like? Insults and shallow comments came out of his mouth. Unlike Ron to Luna, Harry likes Cho, Hermione has known that for a while. Seeing that Cho is returning those feelings, why not let him know? It's not like Harry has had much to smile about anyway.

Good points, Mutant for Hire.

But if Hermione did like Ron, can we really assume that she would tell Ginny? Yes, Hermione and Ginny are friends, but we all know that Hermione can take a secret with her practically to the grave. Would she really be divulging her innermost feelings to Ginny--the sister of her potential crush? How could she be certain that she could trust Ginny not to tell her own brother?

Let's say for a moment that Hermione has feelings for Ron. And she's pretty sure that he has feelings for her. What's stopping her from making a move? The risk of making things awkward with Harry? Yes, I would say so. But there must be something else.

Think about it. Ron's feelings are an open book right now; almost everyone agrees about that. Ron fancies Hermione--Harry knows it, Hermione knows it. The only person still in the dark seems to be Ron himself, but that's a different story. So, post-Yule-Brawl, we all know that Hermione got the "point". The girl knows that he likes her. So why is she still writing a novel-length letter to Viktor Krum--a guy that she KNOWS Ron detests--right under his nose? Why does she continue to refrain from encouraging Ron to make his move? Why doesn't she make a move herself?

I would say that, as of OotP, Hermione has realized that it isn't Ron she has feelings for. She's confused about it--as I've said before, she knows that Ron likes her, and she doesn't want to hurt him. She cares about him enough to know that rejection would definitely sting at this point. And then she has feelings for Harry, who had openly displayed his crush on another girl. She appears to be totally clueless as to how he feels about her (aren't we all), hence the "Mention how ugly you think I am" comment. Testing the water? Maybe. Conveniently in Ron's absence, I might add.

Now about the encouraging: Hermione encourages Harry to pursue Cho, because she knows that he likes her, and has liked her for quite some time. Why should Hermione encourage Ron to like anyone else? This would seem highly suspicious, both to the readers and to the characters, if Hermione suddenly started pointing out potential dates for Ron. Especially Luna--while Luna may be smitten with Ron, anyone can see that Ron is profoundly irritated by her. If either Hermione or Ginny tried to push Ron toward Luna, people would start to wonder what's going on here. Besides, didn't Hermione defend Eloise Midgen to Ron in GoF? Why encourage him to appreciate girls for anything other than their beauty if she wanted to divert him from potential rivals?

Hermione advises Harry in matters of Cho because she's willing to be the bigger person and place her friend's happiness over her own still-hidden feelings for him, which in her eyes may amount to nothing. She isn't happy about it--look at her reaction to the Kiss. But she does it anyway, because she thinks that there may be something between them that could actually be good for Harry, and she wants him to be happy. Ron, on the other hand--what does Hermione know about Luna? She thinks she's a nutter, and who knows if she has picked up on Luna's crush yet. I don't see why anyone should be encouraging Ron to date anyone, when he hasn't expressed realistic interest in anyone else yet (Fleur doesn't count).

EDIT: sone said exactly what I meant but in about a hundred words less. :D

It is clear that Ginny and Hermione have been talking together a lot
Have you never wonder why Hermione know that Ginny don´t fancy Harry anymore? I mean they have been talk about Harry but why? Isn´t it possible that Ginny know that Hermione likes Harry more as a friend? It is possible that would fit to the point that Ginny seems to help Hermione if she is argueing with Harry and he is yelling at her. First she add in the conversation as Hermione already said she know Harry don´t want the fame but he is yelling and angry after that so Ginny add that they know it once more as if she want help Hermione. Later as its about Sirius again Ginny help Hermione. Its interest isn´t it if you look at it that way.

I agree with sone very well written your post and there is everything I do think about this.

Even if Ginny and Hermoine talked a lot, talking about stealing your brothers broom stick whn youre 6 is quite different to talking about having a crush on the big brother. Of course, who knows.


(and I think aomebody said this already)

I think that Ginny left her crush on Harry behind her because she found out how much of a nut he is. She just found out that Harry has too much things on his mind to really notice her. Even his other crushes have been taking a back seat to business. Harry is plainly just not ready to start a serious relationship in the books. It's kinda hard to fall in love with someone when there is someone trying to kill you constantly, especially if that person is one of the most feared criminals in recent history.

This is why I really don't expect to see much out of relationships with Harry. Harry needs friends more than a distraction and you might also say that Harry is going to be afraid of love. Love hasn't been around Harry much and everyone he's really loved (in a mother/father way atleast) has been taken away from him.

As for Hermione and Ginny becoming friends, well it seems like a natural thing to happen since they share rooms alot over the summer. I think all that time spent talking about Harry and the order and so forth has helped Ginny get over her crush. I bet Ginny heard a lot about how Hermione cares for Harry and hopes he doesn't get in trouble and found out that her feelings for Harry were rather empty. Just a crush.

Ginny probably found out that she doesn't really know Harry so how could she possibly love him? I don't know but she got over it.

yes the relationship between harry and cho was predictable. if i had placed money on that bet i made with my mother and my brothers friends i would have won :) i figured cho would choose harry since he was the last one to see cedric i.e. she was seeing cedric over harry's shoulder

i would have prefered ron and hermione... maybe not full out romance but stronger implications than in the previous books. it could have been cute

as for the hermione and ginny becoming good friends and ginny suddenly haning out with the gang occasionally, well girls mature quicker than boys so she's probably on the same level as harry and ron now, and like senior fishy said hermione and her shared a room so they probably got to know each other well.

i think something unexpected would be a relationship between malfoy and a random person. that would have been amusing.

i know alot of people are harry x ginny fans. so am i personally, but i think harry has a bit of growing up to do in the love department. him and cho were acting like a bunch of little kids. he'll get better ;) in due time i do think they may hook up... kinda like history repeating itself with james and lily no?

Well, a lot of this depends on motivations. I tend to go for the simpler explanations myself. Hermione points Harry at Cho because she's not interested in him herself and she knows that Harry is interested in Cho. I find that a lot more believable than Hermione being big enough to set up Harry with Cho desipite her own feelings.

Then there is the question of why Hermione doesn't let down Ron gently early on instead of waiting for him to work up his courage so she can really shatter his self-confidence later when he does ask her out. I think she's smart enough to realize that the longer she waits, the worse its going to be. If she's big enough to sacrifice her own feelings for Harry, I tend to think she has enough spine to do the right thing for Ron.

And if Hermione doesn't have feelings, I would expect Ginny to be aware of this. Hermione might not tell Ginny if she was interested but I think she'd be a little more forthcoming if Ron was only a friend to her. The question is why Ginny isn't pushing for Hermione to do the right thing or is pushing at Ron to find someone else. That's one of the hardest points I find at this point. Ginny has never come off as callous about Ron.

Frankly there just doesn't strike me as enough tension for there to be a romantic triangle there either from the viewpoint of the people in it or from the person watching from the sidelines with ties to the people involved. I get the sense that Hermione is more exasperated than unhappy about Ron. There is no place in the book I can find where she seems at all worried about Ron or his feelings, except possibly for his Quidditch problems.

Well, I thought that there was going to be something between Harry and Cho, although she was a little stupid about going on and on about Cedric forever and ever. I really cannot see Hermione going out with Ron for some reason. It just doesn't make sense in my head.

Then there is the question of why Hermione doesn't let down Ron gently early on instead of waiting for him to work up his courage so she can really shatter his self-confidence later when he does ask her out. I think she's smart enough to realize that the longer she waits, the worse its going to be. If she's big enough to sacrifice her own feelings for Harry, I tend to think she has enough spine to do the right thing for Ron.

How should she then? It would seem pretty vain of her to just come out and say to Ron that we can never be more than friends. Should she walk up and just out of the blue say to Ron that no matter what she will never like him for more than a friend? Or shouldn't she wait until there's at least something of a catalyst to start the conversation that way? After all what if she's wrong in her analysis of Ron's behaviour. Then she would seem pretty foolish. I'm sorry to say that I don't know too many people who just walk up to someone and say I'll never like you for more than a friend.

But to simplify, if Hermione knows that Ron likes her why is she not giving any encouragement? And to say that this is happening off stage while Harry is not around is to complicate the simple. Plus it doesn't fit in with JKR's style of writing. Everything that happens in later books we have seen evidence in the earlier and none of the plot developments have taken off stage and we have not been given clues to them. If there was something going on off stage then we would find Harry walking in on Ron and Hermione having a Hr/R moment. Instead he walks in on them fighting, or sitting there doing something completely different ex. Hermione writing a letter and Ron doing his homework in silence. or they're both sitting there doing homework. But we never walk in on a Hr/R moment. And why is it everytime that we hear of them spending time without Harry he is the favorite topic of conversation between them?

And if Hermione doesn't have feelings, I would expect Ginny to be aware of this. Hermione might not tell Ginny if she was interested but I think she'd be a little more forthcoming if Ron was only a friend to her. The question is why Ginny isn't pushing for Hermione to do the right thing or is pushing at Ron to find someone else. That's one of the hardest points I find at this point. Ginny has never come off as callous about Ron.

How should Ginny go to her older brother and tell him that Hermione doesn't think about him in that way? Plus why would Hermione tell Ginny this? You never know how a family member will react when it's one of their own being insulted. Also note how much closer Ginny and Hermione became after Ginny got over Harry. And note why would Ginny tell Hermione this?

Frankly there just doesn't strike me as enough tension for there to be a romantic triangle there either from the viewpoint of the people in it or from the person watching from the sidelines with ties to the people involved. I get the sense that Hermione is more exasperated than unhappy about Ron. There is no place in the book I can find where she seems at all worried about Ron or his feelings, except possibly for his Quidditch problems.

:??: So Hermione cares by not caring? I'm confused. You can find nowhere in the book where she seems worried about Ron's feelings but you think that a romance can blossom when she isn't worried about his feelings?

Well, a lot of this depends on motivations. I tend to go for the simpler explanations myself. Hermione points Harry at Cho because she's not interested in him herself and she knows that Harry is interested in Cho. I find that a lot more believable than Hermione being big enough to set up Harry with Cho desipite her own feelings.

Or because she has known that Harry has liked Cho and that this is something that he must go through or forever wonder what might have been. After all Hermione had to work through her feelings for Krum.

Cheers!

"I tend to go for the simpler explanations myself. Hermione points Harry at Cho because she's not interested in him herself and she knows that Harry is interested in Cho. I find that a lot more believable than Hermione being big enough to set up Harry with Cho desipite her own feelings."

You would think so. I would agree but truth is stranger than fiction.

Hermione's reaction to the Cho fiasco speaks for itself.

She isn't happy about it. When she asks him what happened after the DA meeting, she asks specifically if Cho "cornered" him. Then, when she inquires about the kiss, her tone is "business-like", and as the conversation goes on, we get "absently", "vaguely", "briskly", and more "vague"s and "absently"s. She's even frowning slightly after he confirms that Cho kissed him.

Here's the part that I found interesting {paraphrased}

"You just had to nice to her," said Hermione. "You were, weren't you?" she added anxiously.
"Well, I sort of--patted her on the back," said Harry.
Hermione looked like she wanted to roll her eyes, but restrained herself.

Forgive me for reading too much into things, but WHAT is Hermione anxious about exactly? My first impression was that she was worried that Harry had been insensitive and not comforted Cho. Then, when he answers that he HAD actually been somewhat sensitive, and "patted her on the back", Hermione looks like she wants to roll her eyes. She's holding something back. The way I see it, the selfish part of her wanted to hear that he had flipped out and not comforted Cho when she was crying on him, and when he tells her that he actually did what he should have done (kind of), she still doesn't seem too satisfied, does she?

Hermione knows what it's like to have someone respond to distress with a pat on the back, though (remember PoA, when Ron responded similarly to her apology about Scabbers). I interpreted the rolling eyes as sympathy for Cho.

She isn't happy about it. When she asks him what happened after the DA meeting, she asks specifically if Cho "cornered" him. Then, when she inquires about the kiss, her tone is "business-like", and as the conversation goes on, we get "absently", "vaguely", "briskly", and more "vague"s and "absently"s. She's even frowning slightly after he confirms that Cho kissed him.

Earendil, that is exactly the way I interpreted those "buisness like" replys as well.

However, I'd like to add something. Most H/Hr opposers ask for solid evidence...well, there isn't, but there is a lot of "little" things that suggest things one way or another. As a matter of fact, looking at the beginning of this thread where the real topic was being answered :), most people said that they thought there would be a lot more boy/girl things then there was. Well, I think they were looking for the wrong thing. The fourth book deals with the love subject in obvious and blatant confrontations or quick remarks. The fifth book, however, changes techniques and goes quietly....If you look close enough there is a huge amount of foreshadowing for future pairs...just not so obvious. The quote that Earendil gave up there are perfect examples and can be found all around the book, but especially when dealing with Cho!

*goes off to find some more*

Think about it properly. If you are an author, are you going to sit back and give away what's to come? No. In fact, if you look at her interviews properly, she does not tell you what's actually coming in the future. She does many things in her interviews - confirm a future plot line is not one of them

Yes, but do you really think Rowling wants to mislead people about a romance? Plot should be surprising, romance shouldn't. Good romance works (especially in a children's book) by being expected. The author sets up the romantic feelings, builds up tension, gets readers rooting for the characters to hook up, and then finally has them get together in a satisfying culmination. Who wants to root for two people to get together and then have it all turn out into nothing?

Rowling has basically shoved a Ron-Hermione romance in our faces, like everything that happened in GoF. In interviews, she's acted like something's going on between them. She's building up expectations that R/H will hook up. It is really obvious and it is what most of the millions of casual readers expect (and generally hope) will happen.

OTOH, Rowling has tried to deny a H/H romance. Some people see "clues," but if they exist at all they are very subtle, nothing like the blatant signs of R/H. IMHO of course.

I think it would be phenomenally stupid of her to "trick" people on this point. I mean, why? Readers want to be surprised, but not by having an unexpected romance sprung all of a sudden on them. Everybody wants to see their favorite couple become a couple. That's the whole pay-off. JKR may not want it to be entirely clear that R/H will get together (a little uncertainty is always good), but I don't think she is getting readers excited about a R/H pairing only to have it turn into H/H.

H/H just seems to make very little sense from an author's perspective.

And, well, does anyone really want to see the trio's friendship sundered by a R/H/H love triangle anyway?



WRT to the movie business, I don't think we need to take her statements so literally. Obviously, Columbus meant to show R/H. We know that JKR has a lot of control over the movies and that she wanted to show tension. When something about the movies doesn't jive with future plotines, she has them changed. It's therefore logical to assume she approved CC's decision.

Ron and Hermione are supposed to be together. and they are starting to notice one another more, ron is jelous about krum and hermione writing to each other.. it all fits.... Cho and harry? i liked Cho but i think she got a bit too emotional in the fifth book i think she thought getting closer to harry would make things better and maybe bring back cedric, but harry didnt want to talk about any of it.
ginny- well of course she was going to get over harry sooner or or later but deep down i think she still has a thing for him and something may even happen between them in the coming books.
luna likes ron... you can sooo telll, her singing weasley is our king is not a way of teasing him because she really does think that..... she likes him. calling him Ronald...

i know that cho is a bit too emitional in the fifth book but ..... wat if history repeats ??? like harry's parents they hate each other in the fifth and sixth year and then in the seventy year they started to go out together ....i think that harry and cho will sort out in six year ( where cho leaving ) and maybe it will have peace no more quarrels and then .... maybe OR maybe not .... i think that ll/s will be happening in book seven....

To answer the 'real' question, :D, no. I was honestly expecting much more solid evidence as to who is going to end up with whom, as I thought that the last 2 books would not have too much time for romance. It's maddening to suddenly see an almost-certain team, then to have subtle clues that the opposite is going to happen. I've been cheering for R/H since POA, but it's JKR's decision if the opposite is going to happen, or even (please no) R/LL! IMO we'll have to wait until book 6 to see if the latter ship really stands a chance.... I view Luna & Ron like CoS Harry & Ginny.

"Yes, but do you really think Rowling wants to mislead people about a romance?"

Yep.

well, i think its awfully convenient that Harry and Cho are over and at the same time, JK sets it up that Ginny is not too young to date and is clearly not interested in him anymore. although i never would have believed it a week ago, i think Harry is going to want to win Ginny over in the next book, and maybe have to compete with...Neville!?! :??:

Yes, but do you really think Rowling wants to mislead people about a romance? Plot should be surprising, romance shouldn't. Good romance works (especially in a children's book) by being expected. The author sets up the romantic feelings, builds up tension, gets readers rooting for the characters to hook up, and then finally has them get together in a satisfying culmination. Who wants to root for two people to get together and then have it all turn out into nothing?
Not mislead only make it complicate like this one who is the realy evil person in PS/SS Quirell or Snape. Since whan shouldn´t a romance be unexpected and by the way its not unexpected not complet. You see there are people out there who expect H/Hr. I don´t think HP is a real children book and if you read some teenager books you may see that not always the obviouse one get together.
How we all regornise wasn´t in OotP any further tensions between R/Hr and no romantic feelings. Maybe its only me but it was kinda to expect because IMO Hermione didn´t feel the same for Ron in GoF.
Obviously I didn´t expect directly that R/Hr won´t happen in OotP but its strange that I write a fic and there isn´t it either though I was trying to bring it in. It just didn´t work not on basis of GoF and how Hermione did react. To be exactly in my fifth year fic isn´t any pairing well I didn´t thought about Cho but she was still in my story who knows maybe I had write the same but well I wasn´t that far in it.
See what I mean even you want write a romance that way it don´t it will happen just because of that what was earlier and after that won´t R/Hr happen in OotP. I´m afraid to say that R/Hr still won´t happen in book 6 either but thats a different thread so I shut up

sone said it - seems to me that JKR wants to lead us by our noses and kick us in the rear at the same time regarding ships...

fishie76 -
Plot should be surprising, romance shouldn't.

Why should it be this way? I cannot see any basis for plots to have surprises but romance to not have elements of surprise. It makes no sense since it seems to me that JKR has never been obvious before - why should she start now?

Rowling has basically shoved a Ron-Hermione romance in our faces, like everything that happened in GoF. In interviews, she's acted like something's going on between them.

JKR has only made Ron's feelings more evident - we are all basically in the dark about Hermione's feelings - we don't know if she does like Ron too, or if she likes Harry or even Viktor for that matter.

And you said so - she acted like something's going on between them. How are we supposed to know if she's telling the truth, or is just being deliberately cryptic? Most of her ship-related quotes are very ambigious and can be interpreted in many ways - just like the books she authors.

In the end it all depends on what she, the author wants. We can only try to identify the clues she's been dropping us, and hope that we are right, no?

Well, no comment on anything from any of Rowling's interviews -- I think I've gone over that too many times already. :)

Posted by fishie76
Yes, but do you really think Rowling wants to mislead people about a romance?

1. Well, yes, as she had done for almost all of the events in the books thus far. Mind you, as R/Hr is apparently so blatantly obvious, and H/Hr is so subtle, doesn't that possibly imply that JK is slowly developing H/Hr behind-the-scenes while we'll be none the wiser as we're so sure that R/Hr will happen?

Plot should be surprising, romance shouldn't. Good romance works (especially in a children's book) by being expected.

2. Well, the Harry Potter books aren't technically children's books. Admittedly, the first few books are, but beginning from Book 4, the books have taken on a more adult tone -- it's all over JK's writing in Book 5. The books continue to increase in angst and darkness as Harry grows. We should bear in mind that we're in Harry's world, which is bound to change as he goes from 15 to 16, and from 16 to 17. About your "romance shouldn't be surprising statement", refer to #1. Now, about your second statement: There's no reason for romance in the book to be expected. If we knew exactly what was going to happen, it would take away from our enjoyment of the book, wouldn't it? We (the readers) enjoy to be surprised, and enjoy to be shocked.

The author sets up the romantic feelings, builds up tension, gets readers rooting for the characters to hook up, and then finally has them get together in a satisfying culmination. Who wants to root for two people to get together and then have it all turn out into nothing?

3. All the alleged romantic feelings and tension are but the interpretation of the readers, which means that it isn't mentioned once in the book, but is based on our own views on the matter. Well, in reply to your statement, refer to #1 and #2. Alright, I suppose quite a few people rooted for Harry and Cho to get together. I remember quite clearly them saying that they were just so right. But, as it turns out, they weren't suited for each other, and the H/C ship has sunk conpletely. That really disappointed a number of people. I recall, though, an instance where Rowling said that she's writing the Harry Potter books for herself, and she doesn't care if she may disappoint quite a few people in the end. Perhaps we should keep that fact in mind.

Rowling has basically shoved a Ron-Hermione romance in our faces, like everything that happened in GoF. In interviews, she's acted like something's going on between them. She's building up expectations that R/H will hook up. It is really obvious and it is what most of the millions of casual readers expect (and generally hope) will happen.

4. So far, the R/Hr relationship appears to be one-sided, with Hermione apparently not returning Ron's feelings. After OotP was released, I've noticed a significant rise in the number of H/Hr shippers. So, perhaps the number of shippers are relatively equal now. "But wait," you may say, "JK wouldn't want to disappoint so many readers!" Hmm ... well, I say refer to statement #3.

I think it would be phenomenally stupid of her to "trick" people on this point. I mean, why? Readers want to be surprised, but not by having an unexpected romance sprung all of a sudden on them. Everybody wants to see their favorite couple become a couple. That's the whole pay-off.

5. But, she may not be tricking people. As I said in statement #1, Rowling may be developing H/Hr behind-the-scenes. A rather large number of people now see the possibility of H/Hr (though not all of them may board the HMS Harmony). Also, as I said in statement #3, Rowling isn't worried about disappointing some of her readers.

JKR may not want it to be entirely clear that R/H will get together (a little uncertainty is always good), but I don't think she is getting readers excited about a R/H pairing only to have it turn into H/H.

H/H just seems to make very little sense from an author's perspective.

6. But why does H/Hr seem to make very little sense from an author's perspective? Is it because it is so blatantly obvious that she is supporting R/Hr? Not all readers see it that way, though. Many readers, I believe, put their money on the H/Hr pairing. Why? That's because they see signs of H/Hr, just as R/Hr shippers see signs of R/Hr. That's the reason we ship the ship we ship, right?

Well, I think this post is long enough now ... so I'll stop my ramblings right now. :)

Cheers!

There's something here which I can't really put my finger at. Most H/Hr shippers would say that Hermione has hidden feelings for Harry, based on her frown, business-like voice, and brisk tones when she heard about Harry's kiss. However, I thought this exerpt contradicts the above example to a certain extent. From the British Version pg. 311 (In the Hog's Head), at the very end of the chapter --

Ron continued to chunter under his breath all the way down the street (when he discovered that Ginny was going out with Micheal).

Hermione rolled her eyes at Harry and then said in an undertone, while Ron was still muttering imprecations about Micheal Corner, ' And talking about Micheal and Ginny... what about Cho and you?'

'What d'you mean?' said Harry quickly

It was as though boiling water was rising rapidly inside him; a burning sensation that was causing his face to smart in the cold - had he been that obvious?

'Well,' said Hermione, smiling slightly, 'she just couldn't keep her eyes off you, could she?'

If Hermione was unhappy with Harry's correspondence with Cho, then why was she smiling with Harry? It is as though she is happy to acknowledge their attraction, and laugh over it as a friend. Could someone correct me here?

'Well,' said Hermione, smiling slightly, 'she just couldn't keep her eyes off you, could she?'

If Hermione was unhappy with Harry's correspondence with Cho, then why was she smiling with Harry? It is as though she is happy to acknowledge their attraction, and laugh over it as a friend. Could someone correct me here?
Even for such a reaction I have an answer and thats this: Its how Harry react. You know he is embrassed and its something you can smile about. Even if this girl isn´t herself. Do you think she is smiling because of Cho or because how Harry react to that? I´m more for Harrys reaction because its Harry with who she talk and not with Cho and its his reaction was make her smile.

Originally posted by fishie76 (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=405045#post405045))
Yes, but do you really think Rowling wants to mislead people about a romance? Plot should be surprising, romance shouldn't. Good romance works (especially in a children's book) by being expected. The author sets up the romantic feelings, builds up tension, gets readers rooting for the characters to hook up, and then finally has them get together in a satisfying culmination. Who wants to root for two people to get together and then have it all turn out into nothing?

I think it would be phenomenally stupid of her to "trick" people on this point. I mean, why? Readers want to be surprised, but not by having an unexpected romance sprung all of a sudden on them. Everybody wants to see their favorite couple become a couple. That's the whole pay-off. JKR may not want it to be entirely clear that R/H will get together (a little uncertainty is always good), but I don't think she is getting readers excited about a R/H pairing only to have it turn into H/H.

H/H just seems to make very little sense from an author's perspective.

And, well, does anyone really want to see the trio's friendship sundered by a R/H/H love triangle anyway?

Exactly! JKR has been clear that on this book she was leaving clear clues so people wouldn't feel tricked at then end. Tricking people is one of the most critize things on literature and out of literature also. Your pay off is finally seeing at the end the couple that you have been expecting.

We have been reading how Hermione and Ron are attracted to each other. We are desperatly waiting when are they finally going to hook up. Eating our fingernails and pulling our hairs over the slowness and stupidity, having them go with other people would be tricking us and it's clear to me that it's not what JKR wants. Clues are something easily spotted like in CoS the Valentine-diary thing. It was obvious that jkr was giving us a clue that Ginny had something to do with the diary, like at the beggining her having the Weasleys go back for it. In PoA having tell the whole Black - James story. Clues are not hard to find. So having some subliminal thing or story in the background is not what I believe JKR has intentions too.

If Hermione was unhappy with Harry's correspondence with Cho, then why was she smiling with Harry? It is as though she is happy to acknowledge their attraction, and laugh over it as a friend. Could someone correct me here?

No I agree with you here. Hermione is happy that Cho likes Harry. She knows that he likes her and now that she likes him it's obvious to her that there could be something going on between them in a future. (although it ended before it even started) Hermione's reaction to H/C is one of the clues that she has no feelings for Harry. She encourages the relationship and even tries to help. While in other areas she is completly bother by Luna's attention to Ron and seems fine that he doesn't acknoledge her. Hermione is not a stupid girl she is smart, while she encourages Harry to be nice to Cho, she in no way encourages Ron to be nice to Luna. On the contrary she seems bother by her statement even though Luna hasn't done anything to her. (as far as I can remember). Luna is a different kind of girl and Hermione gets along with a lot people. Eloise Midgen and others; she could very well get along with her or at least be nice to her, but Luna's statements and whole persona seem to edge off on Hermione for some reason. *coughRoncough*

It seems clear to me that Hermione's business like, vaguely and other statements regarding Cho and Harry are obvious statements that she thinks Harry is clueless about Woman and that he should be nice to her and understand what she is going thru, because it seems pretty obvious to her what Cho is going thru and she can't believe that Harry doesn't catch up to it. Hermione worries the same way she worries about Neville and the cruciatus curse in GoF, the same way she says Eloise Midgen is a nice girl, the same way she worries about everybody that it's in trouble. It's just the way Hermione is. She worries more about Harry simply because out of the three Harry is the most clueless of the three.

There's no reason for romance in the book to be expected. If we knew exactly what was going to happen, it would take away from our enjoyment of the book, wouldn't it? We (the readers) enjoy to be surprised, and enjoy to be shocked

I have to disagree here. No it doesn't take our enyoyment (at least not mine). Your payoff is the couple finally after all the time you have been waiting to finally, finally get toguether. Everything in the HP books is foreshadow and they are clues over it. Everything that it was set out in book 5 was foreshadow in other books. If we were surprised it's because we miss out on the clues but they were there staring us in the face and laughing.

Gily Ann

I've got a feeling Hermione is getting as much "love" advice from Krum as she is giving.

By this I mean there is always that friend that a girl has who is a guy. And this guy is ususally a fun well of insight.

So what if she is writing to Krum as a friend and is getting advice....as well as venting and the other mumbo-normal stuff. :)

Who says that the author is tricking anybody? I suspect she is just leaving it up in the air. Because if it was certain, there would not be a debate. Especially one going for so many pages. What she doesn't want us to know for certain, the author lets us interpret that for ourselves rather than steer us in whichever direction. Whether we are wrong or not is our problem, not hers. After all, she did let out the clues. For one, we know Ron likes Hermione. That did not need clues, it is just a fact. We know that Harry likes Cho (or did anyway). We know now that Cho likes Harry. We know Luna likes Ron. We know Viktor likes Hermione. Again, no need for clues, it is just there.

I think (and hope) that there will be some form of a romance between Harry and Hermione. I think Harry will be looking for a shoulder to cry on after Sirius' death and he always seems to turn to Hermione these days.

Harry and Hermione will have one of those "right in front of you all this time" kind of relationships... just slowly growing aware of it. But before that happens, I'd like to see some more Cho-Harry on-off events.

'Well,' said Hermione, smiling slightly, 'she just couldn't keep her eyes off you, could she?'

I'm glad that this was brought up.

My first question is, if Ron OR Harry didn't notice that Cho was making eyes at Harry, why did Hermione? I almost want to say that Hermione was keeping a surreptitious eye on Cho to see how she was behaving around Harry, as we can tell that Hermione picked up on the vibes.

And, about the "smiling slightly" -- note the use of the word slightly. Hermione wasn't smiling "cheerfully" or she wasn't even just plain smiling "normally". It was just a slight smile: I interpreted as being the kind of smile you would give someone when you're in the know about something and they're not. Or the kind of smile you would give someone when you're trying to look happy about something even when you're not. This may be going out on a limb here, but I honestly felt that that sentence was quite telling of Hermione's reaction to Cho's obvious feelings for Harry. And while some may interpret it as Hermione actually not having a negative reaction, I interpreted it the exact opposite way.

This Obvious vs. Subtle business is a moot point, if you ask me. In my eyes, H/Hr is glaringly obvious, and in someone else's eyes, R/Hr is glaringly obvious -- so what's the problem? We all see sufficient evidence for our own ships, and alot of us are also willing to consider evidence for opposing ships as well. No matter what happens, no one will feel cheated, because there HAS been evidence, whether we like it or not, that just plain exists for both ships ever since the beginning of the series. JK won't be springing any surprises on us if she writes R/Hr OR H/Hr, because there is evidence for both. I don't agree with the R/Hr evidence personally, but if it does happen, I won't feel cheated the way I would feel if she threw us a Harry/Susan Bones ship, which had no evidence to speak of in any of the books.

I won't be surprised if H/Hr happens, because I expect it to, but I know that other readers are expecting the more in-your-face R/Hr route. While they will be surprised at first if H/Hr happens, a few closer readings should tell them that the evidence has been there from the beginning. If they still don't see it, then it remains a matter of personal interpretation. The same thing goes for any plot device: when something seems to pop out of nowhere, after you've been expecting something else, it does tend to feel like you've been cheated until you look back at the subtle clues leading up to it. It happened with the Quirrell incident in SS, with the Sirius incident in PoA, with the BCJr incident in GoF, and so many more. No matter how much of a surprise H/Hr may be if it does happen, no one can make a realistic claim that we have been cheated by not having enough clues to figure it out.

First i disagree that most people/readers are expecting/hoping for a R/Hr relationship. In fact though in the last few days a few more R/Hr shippers have been seen, most people seem to favor the H/Hr hook up.After GoF most people (myself included) thought we would see some type of big developement because of Ron growing feelings for Hermione, but now after OotP I dont see that any more. Even less that GoF Hermione just does not feel the same as Ron. I still do not see an answer to my question why is Hermione not showing or returning any hints or such back to Ron. The only reason before was she did not want to endanger breaking the trio for whatever reason. In OotP she has a perfect opurtunity to openly show her supposed feelings. For a short while there Cho and Harry were hitting it off, and Hermione if hiding feelings for Ron and Ron openingly showing his should have made a move. It was a perfect chance to to match them up, as Harry would not have cared at all. (cared as in, care if hermione/Ron get together) But it diddnt happen. Why? Because Hermione at this point simply does not like Ron that way....its the only concusion and furthor more book 5 puts an exclamation point on that statement.

Ginny and Hermione conversing...well i dont know about this. I think that Hermione was alround the Weasles all summer and Ginny being the only other girl threre allowed them to talk more than usuall. Im not saying they are not friends just that i dont think they are on a best friend basis.

I too think she is writing Krum for advice on things. She apparently knew or thought something was going to happen with Cho and Harry after the DA meeting that night, and for some reason needs to write Victor Krum a very long letter even though its late at night. Hermione's emotions and words are very important here. Its been asked a hundred times, but why did Hermione frown? I see only the ovious answer....

HMS Harmony forever!!!!!:clappy:

And, about the "smiling slightly" -- note the use of the word slightly. Hermione wasn't smiling "cheerfully" or she wasn't even just plain smiling "normally". It was just a slight smile: I interpreted as being the kind of smile you would give someone when you're in the know about something and they're not. Or the kind of smile you would give someone when you're trying to look happy about something even when you're not. This may be going out on a limb here, but I honestly felt that that sentence was quite telling of Hermione's reaction to Cho's obvious feelings for Harry. And while some may interpret it as Hermione actually not having a negative reaction, I interpreted it the exact opposite way. Exactly its a comparing between this what Earendil wrote and my thinking that Hermione smile because how Harry react. Its for Harry unusual to react like that. Good point I hadn´t write it better, hell I would write it worst. Great post;)

Originally posted by Earendil (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=406111#post406111))
And, about the "smiling slightly" -- note the use of the word slightly. Hermione wasn't smiling "cheerfully" or she wasn't even just plain smiling "normally". It was just a slight smile: I interpreted as being the kind of smile you would give someone when you're in the know about something and they're not. Or the kind of smile you would give someone when you're trying to look happy about something even when you're not.


That's exactly what I thought! More like a "smiling weakly" not a cheerful smile. Great post.

Originally posted by Earendil (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=406111#post406111))
And, about the "smiling slightly" -- note the use of the word slightly. Hermione wasn't smiling "cheerfully" or she wasn't even just plain smiling "normally". It was just a slight smile: I interpreted as being the kind of smile you would give someone when you're in the know about something and they're not.

Given that Harry didn't seem to understand what she was talking about (or at least tried to indicate that he didn't), I'd say she had cause to act like she knew something he didn't about Cho's feelings for him. I saw it as sly, rather than weak.

As for why she was the only one who noticed...it's been pretty well established that Ron and Harry are clueless when it comes to the opposite sex.

On a somewhat related note, I guess I'm still not seeing why Hermione would allow Ron's feelings to grow unchecked if she had zero interest in him. Unlike Cho, she doesn't seem to play games. And from an unromantic perspective, it's very rare, if not unheard of, for her to be indirect when she's unhappy about something, particularly when her friends are involved.

On a somewhat related note, I guess I'm still not seeing why Hermione would allow Ron's feelings to grow unchecked if she had zero interest in him. Unlike Cho, she doesn't seem to play games. And from an unromantic perspective, it's very rare, if not unheard of, for her to be indirect when she's unhappy about something, particularly when her friends are involved.
Right, I try to explain. In this little theory dos Hermione like Harry but know that Ron fancy her. Now Hermione gos straight to Ron and tells him that she don´t like him that way because (I may expect she will tell him the whole story) she likes Harry. Well, Harry likes Cho, right? That say if she breaks Ron heart with telling him that she not like him but his best friend who likes Cho can you imagine how Ron might react? We got a little taste as Hermione only said Harry isn´t a bad kisser. Ron ask sharply How she know? He won´t be pleasent that Harry got two girls who fancy him and over all that girl which he do like. In OotP a fight like GoF wouldn´t be the best. To that comes that Harry would be angry with Ron and Ron with Harry. Ron with Hermione and Harry maybe angry with Hermione. Not good absoluly not good. Especialy how often Hermione remind that they have stay together. So that say she play on time. First Ron lose his interest in her and Harry realise that there is maybe something more as friendship. Sometimes is much more healty to wait and not to act thats why Hermione don´t say she don´t like Ron or better not speak about this topic with him. No she act as if the Yule Ball was never there and she didn´t ever think he may like her.

Given that Harry didn't seem to understand what she was talking about (or at least tried to indicate that he didn't), I'd say she had cause to act like she knew something he didn't about Cho's feelings for him. I saw it as sly, rather than weak.

Yes, I see what you mean and initially, it was my first impression as well. However, her being sly to Harry just doesn't fit. I don't ever remember her acting that way to Harry. Hermione said that, I think, because of what you said of Harry and ron being so clueless about the opposite sex (which I couldn't agree with more). But that was only part of it. Plus the fact that in the book the word "eyes" was italicized, which makes me think that when Hermione was speaking, she emphacized the word "eyes" in a sort of condenscending way. Which to me says that she was a least a bit dis-concerted and had some type of emotion making her do that. However, the way you can interpret that depends on whose ship your on....So I'll leave that alone! Anyways, the way I interpreted it was that openly, her grin portrayed her acting superior to Harry's ignorance, but inside I think she was curious if not a bit snappy.

Those who are saying the shipping can go any way at this point, the clues are all there -- I agree completely. I was once a rabid canon H/Hr shipper, but reading OotP made me realize more than ever that the books really aren't about that. That is not to say I wouldn't like to see my favorite ship set sail or that it doesn't have a chance -- quite the contrary, but... these books are 1) Mysteries and 2) not really about romance. I'll take whatever JKR gives us, and I am no longer going to become emotionally invested in the shipping in canon. I'll still write H/Hr and H/R/Hr fanfic to my hearts content, but shipping for me is now a completely fanon thing.

Here is what I see in canon right now, as of OotP:

Ron obviously likes Hermione. Hisloveissocanon

Hermione... well, I don't see signs in OotP that she likes Ron, but things can change. There are signs she has feelings for Harry. There are signs she has feelings for Krum. I think if she really cared for Ron as more than a friend, she would have made a move or clued in Ginny or SOMETHING since it is more than obvious. If she can tell that Harry (the Boy Who Repressed) likes Cho, she can certainly tell Ron has feelings for her. Hermione is rather an enigma... I see her going in pretty much any direction.

Harry -- he liked Cho, his friendship with Hermione grew deeper, he has gotten to know Ginny as something more than a fangirl. I can see H/Hr evolving slowly (we know he doesn't think she's ugly). I can also see him noticing Ginny now that she can keep her elbow out of the butter dish. Frankly, I was always against H/G because of Ginny's crush and the fact that she had no personality. Now, even though I prefer H/Hr, I wouldn't mind H/G. GilyAnn must be feeling awfully smug ;) A lot of people seem to see Harry/Luna, but I don't see it. I like Luna and all, but... she's too weird to be the Hero's love interest. Would love to be convinced otherwise... but, nope, don't see it.

Luna/Ron -- she likes Ron. She is the anti-Hermione. She's way cool. Yay Luna/Ron! If only Ron would notice her :)

Ginny -- moved on from Harry, you go girl! Personally, I'll have to side with the H/G shippers and say this is a mark in their favor for their ship. Sure, Ginny has moved on. However, in order for H/G to work, she had to go from being fangirl/Ron's little sister to having a personality and life of her own. I don't see signs that Harry likes her, but wouldn't consider this ship sunk by any means.

Now, my crazy speculation... My gut feeling is that there won't be any inter-trio dating. Why? Well, not to sound completely bonkers, but I think Ron is really Dumbledore and that Hermione is going to die. That's not really for the shipping thread, but... JK is full of surprizes.

I re read the part about Hermione giving 'romantic advice' to Harry about the 'wet' kiss. Which in my opinion was a funny scene. But I didn't catch at first read about Hermione being business like so I wanted to get the feel of that scene. I can really understand about how people say that Hermione might be showing her dislike for Harry and Cho here. It definitely can be interpreted that way.

I am still not sure about future relationships though. I think that recent interview with JKR in which she talks about how she has been on the internet and no one has really guessed what is going to happen. Some people have skirted around it but no direct guesses. Now this could be one of her tricks but usually she gives ambigous answers when asked about specific couples. So I wonder if none of the trio are going to end up together and live happily ever after.

One thing about Ron and Hermione, since Ron is trying to play it cool and treat her a little better, not be so jealous and not attack her I think that when his feelings for her come to a head it will be very painful for him. I am not seeing a huge confrontation now like I did with his behavior in GoF but I can see him getting a broken heart if she turns him down. That makes me feel so sad because I have always liked Ron and he is turning into a really nice young man, I don't want to see him with a broken heart!

If JKR wants to keep the trio strong she will have to avoid having any big romantic feelings between the three I think.

Cheers!

My gut feeling is that there won't be any inter-trio dating. Why? Well, not to sound completely bonkers, but I think Ron is really Dumbledore and that Hermione is going to die. That's not really for the shipping thread, but... JK is full of surprizes.
I think it too that Ron may be Dumbledore and that Hermione is going to died but I do think she will died because of Harry. Make that sense? Well there two possibles first: Hermione get hurt in book 6 and don´t died in book 7 second: Ginny get hurt in book 6 and Hermione died in book 7. See my problem?! I would lovely see OBHWF if I knew that nobody have to died but one of them will died so OBHWF don´t work for me. Its possible that Ginny falls again for Harry but I doubt it. Its like take a step back but she did one step to an other direction and this one is for me Neville. Harry is in OotP compared to Neville if we do that than why not compare Ginnys crush with this two guys. Harry is the boy who lived so Ginny had a crush on him but after OotP not anymore. Now Neville isn´t the boy who lived but he could have been easiely the one now Ginny can fall for him now. I need to explain it better. Ginnys crush at Harry was a fangirl crush not really love but Neville who is exactly that what Harry not is can get exact the oposite from Ginny. Not a fangirl crush but really liking or love.

Great post Hope1272! I completely agree with you on this. Harry doesn't want to listen to Hermione, but he does. He tries to convince her to see things his way, and vise versa. I think this alone shows that he respects, and seeks, Hermione's advice. She's the only who won't back down, or just walk away, when she has a difference of opinion with Harry. Look at how Ron reacted: at first, he agreed with Hermione, but then backed down in the face of Harry's points. Hermione points out that there is another way to look at the situation, and that there's another way to handle the problem. With Harry's snapping and angry attitude in OoP, Hermione tries to be understanding. She doesn't snap at him, but points out that she's on his side. Harry realizes this. Other characters either snap back (like Ginny), or just try and distract him (Ron). And even in PoA, Harry realizes that Hermione has the best intentions, even if he doesn't agree with her. (With that fight, I always saw that as Harry going along with Ron's fued with Hermione, not necessarily Harry and Hermione fighting.) My take on it is that Harry and Hermione got very close in GoF, and we're seeing them get even closer in OoP. Even though Harry and Hermione fight, they're still friends. They still care deeply for each other, and realize that they have each other's best interests at heart. (Look how Harry reacted when the death eater attacked Hermione and he though she might be dead: he reacted EXACTLY how he reacted when Sirius passed through the veil. Sign of some deep feelings here.)

And I don't really see Ron being more mature than Harry, or at the next stage in puberty. Ron and Harry are too close in age for there to be any real difference in their maturity levels based on age alone. I've always seen Harry and Hermione as much more mature than Ron, Hermione because she's a girl, and Harry because of what he's been through. Harry's anger in this book isn't just from puberty, it's a result of what he's been through and the reaction he has is age-appropriate. And it helps explain the tragedies in this book: Harry's no longer a child, he doesn't have his innocence anymore. But all the adults still treat him like he is a child, to disastrous results.

And I've got to say something about all the interviews JKR gives, and all the rumors, etc. JKR's interviews are pretty much like how she writes: cryptic and full of clues. She NEVER states anything straight out, unless it's about a book she just finished writing. The infamous platonic friend quote was about PoA, Harry dating someone was about OoP. She loves to keep us guessing, and likes that we debate and come up with theories (she's said this). She is not going to be difinitive on any plot line, including romantic ones. It would take our fun away, and she likes that we have fun debating these things! With all plot points, she either says we'll see in another book (is Sirius going to be proven innocent), or deflects a question with another question without every answering it! (Harry and Hermione? Do you really think they're suited? Said with a icky look on her face. Sound like what I do with some of my students when they get a right answer: I'll say "are you sure that's correct" with a questioning look on my face.) She pretty much tells us to read her books for answers! Now Ron/Hermione having tension: they do because Ron likes Hermione, and not vice versa. That's still tension! It doesn't mean it's a romantic tension at all. Plus, when has she ruled Hermione out as a love interest for all the books? I only know of the one where she said they're just friends in PoA.

Now to Ron/Hermione: Ron obviously likes her, and like her more in OoP than in GoF (in my opinion). But Hermione does not like Ron back. We saw this in GoF and in OoP. When Harry and Ron fought, Hermione spent most of her time with Harry, not Ron. There's more evidence that Hermione likes Krum for heaven's sake! (Who is pretty similar to Harry, not to Ron.) And I don't really see any evidence of Harry and Ginny hooking up. Ginny is over Harry. Harry never liked her as anything more than as Ron's little sister. And since Mrs. W sees Harry as a son, which Harry likes, wouldn't Harry and Ginny dating be sort-of like incest? Harry dating his adoptive sister? That's how I feel about it.

And everyone who noticed all the little pauses - wow, I never noticed that! Good pick up! How cute!

I think that Harry and Hermione will end up together. The reasons are this:
-no other girl will be able to accept Heormione's place in Harry's life. Look at Cho's reaction! Most girl's would feel the same. Especially if they believed the Rita Skeeter articles that claim Harry and Hermione dated. No girlfriend likes it when her boyfriend is still friends with an ex, no matter how long ago they've dated. (I'm still friend with my first ex. We dated 10 years ago, and none of his girlfriends have ever liked me, even ones that had never met me!)

-If Ron and Hermione date, Harry would be left out of the trio. And Harry is the main character. Harry and Hermione hooking up would disrupt the trio, but it would leave Ron isolated, not Harry. Let's face it, Harry is the main character. Ron and Hermione hooking up would isolate Harry too much.

-The clues are there that Harry is seriously falling for Hermione. And there are clues that Heormione is starting to have deeper feelings for Harry. All the signs of first love are there.

In GoF, I thought that Hermione returned Ron's feelings, until the very end when she kissed Harry, not Ron, on the cheek. That threw me. Then when I re-read the books, I saw just how ambiguous Hermione's feelings were. She's supposed to like Ron, but she goes to the ball with another guy. And everytime she frowns at Ron drooling over Fleur, she also has noticed Harry drooling over Cho, or Fleur talking to Harry. When Fleur kissed Harry, Harry's attention is on Fleur. Then he notices Ron and Hermione at the same time, and we see Fleur kissing Ron while Hermione is frowning. What was she frowning about: Fleur kissing Ron or Fleur kissing Harry? And the infamous fight scene when Hermione says next time ask me before someone else does, who knows what that's about? That's what I thought was the biggest sign that Hermione also liked Ron, but after Hermione kissing Harry, and re-reading GoF, I wasn't so sure. I think that might have been Hermione's pride talking. Ron asked her as a last resort. I'd be unhappy if anyone asked me as a last resort date, and I'd probably say the same thing Hermione did, regardless if I liked the guy or not. It's just the principle of the matter: I'm not a back-up date.

OK, so we know Ron likes Hermione, but we don't see enough of his character to know how deep these feelings run. Would he risk his life for Hermione? What would his reaction be if he saw Hermione attacked? We know Harry's reaction to this, and a little of Hermione's. Look at when Harry is going to "save" Sirius: Harry was trying to make Hermione stay at Hogwarts while he and Ron went to London. Look closely at the end of the chapter "Fight and Flight". Harry mentions that only he and Ron have broomsticks, and later says that he and Ron will go one the first two thestrals that they saw, and wanted Hermione to stay behind to attract four more for the others. I don't think he wanted Hermione to come. And when Hermione was attacked, he was praying that she was OK, even though they were in the middle of a battle! As soon as she was attacked, he dropped to his knees, held her shoulder and paniced, still managing to fight off a death eater from this position. And he accepted Neville's word that she was OK. Would you take Neville's word on this? I wouldn't unless I was looking for any conformation that she was OK. And he wants Hermione out of the battle ASAP. Then when they go through a doorway trying to escape, he tosses Ron aside to help Neville with Hermione. Hmm.... And on Hermione's side, when Harry is going to be hurt (the cruciatus curse by Umbridge), she takes Umbridge to a place she knows Umbridge will be hurt. Hmm... And she's unwilling to let Harry go off to fight when Harry "sees" Sirius being tortured. She doesn't want Harry to risk his life, and is more willing to let Sirius shoulder the burden of being tortured than to risk Harry's life.

Now to Harry and Hermione's fighting, I don't see them as going for each other's throats, or attacking the other's personality. I see Harry attacking Hermione's plans out of anger and fury at his own inability to help a situation, not out of anger at Hermione. On pg. 759 of OoP, when Umbridge has been carried off by the centaurs, Harry says:
"Smary plan," he spat at Hermione, keen to release some of his fury." He's ticked in general, and is much more sarcastic and biting when he argues with Hermione, but he attacks her ideas, not her. She doesn't attack him or his feelings, she seems to understand that he's upset and angry for some pretty good reasons. (Knowing that someone wants to kill you and almost succeeded for just because you're alive would would make anyone upset and angry.) Hermione seems more upset when she fights with Harry in comparison to when she fights with others is because she respects Harry. And they seem closer than any other two characters in the book, with the exception of the twins.

I completely identify with Hermione, because she acts towards Harry the way I would act towards a guy friend I liked but thought liked someone else. I'd ask him about his love life to know if I had a shot, and I'd give him love advice because I'd want him to be happy. And I'd probably do it the way Hermione did: business-like, and frown anytime he confirmed that they'd kissed or what not. (Makes me think that her frowns in GoF were over Fleur kissing Harry, not over Fleur kissing Ron.)

But like everyone else, I'm just trying to explain event in a way that supports the SHIPS that I want to happen! And JKR's writing is so great (and ambiguous) that we can all do this! I love the fact that I can look at clues for H/H and see if 100% supported, and someone else can look at them and see 100% support for R/H or H/G. I like this, so that until she writes otherwise, we can all be happy reading the books thinking our SHIP is still possible.

And like a lot of other H/Hers, I thought something would happen between R/H if Hermione liked Ron. Makes me think that it didn't happen because Hermione doesn't like Ron.

Oh, and to answer someone's question as to where all the R/Her's went, some of us (like me) went to the other side after re-reading the books!

Mochajava: Excellent post! :clappy:

I agreed with every point you made. :tu: Well said and nice job.

Now, about the reasons why Hermione isn't discouraging Ron from liking her:

FP said it perfectly. If Hermione were to trot up to Ron and tell him that she has no interest in him--completely out of nowhere, as he hasn't said made any clear-cut move toward her yet--Ron would be humiliated, Hermione would feel guilty, and (assuming that in this hypothetical situation Hermione had also revealed that she had feelings for Harry) Harry would be confused as well. It makes a lot more sense for her to just go with it for now until she has a clear sign that Ron is setting himself up for rejection, and then head him off when she is certain where things lie.

And it works both ways: If Hermione did reciprocate Ron's feelings, why is she sitting back and not doing anything about it? The point is, no matter how Hermione feels about Ron, she hasn't done anything about it whatsoever yet. I attribute this to the fact that it's Harry's feelings that are still in the dark: If Hermione knew how Harry felt about her (and if we knew too...:grumble: ) it would make everything much easier. The point is, she doesn't know, so it wouldn't be safe to bring her own feelings out in the open at this point.

BRAVO!!!!! Mochajava..that was a great post......I think there is not too much to say after that....That covers pretty much everything.....
Great post......

Whoa, I've missed a lot by going to the other thread. Let me see if I can get up on it.

Okay I don't think Hermione likes Ron. As said before, why hasn't she done or said anything to Ron. I'm sure we would have known about it because Ron would have "flipped" and told Harry.

Why hasn't Hermione rejected Ron?
1. She actually doesn't want to let him down because she doesn't want to hurt his feelings.
2. She is hoping it is just a passing crush and that time will do its thing.
3. She feels awkward about bringing up the situation.
4. She doesn't know how Ron would react to the rejection so she's tiptoeing around it.

The Slightly Smiling
My first thought was oh she's sort of laughing at Harry's lack of attention, but then wouldn't it be a full-fledge smile? Then I thought that perhaps she was like sort of teasing, but then that would mean that she was slyly smiling, which she isn't. She is slighty smiling. Slightly means according to www.dictionary.com that:

1.To a small degree or extent; somewhat.
2. Slenderly; delicately: slightly built

If Hermione was that amused, I would excepted for the smile to be wider. But I think she isn't. She's just trying to be happy and find out some information as well.

Attention all Interruptions Investigators!
I'd like to call that this "slightly smiling" scene an interruption scene. It is at the end of a chapter, something new and different. No one, such as Ron, is interrupting, but we are literally taken to a whole new chapter to avoid seeing further inquiry from Hermione.

After scanning H/Hr moments. I've come to the conclusion that Hermione does like Harry and that it crept up slowly throughout OoP. You know it is possible she hadn't realized her feelings. She is probably confused about her feelings too because I think there is something still going on with her and Krum that JKR is keeping on the low. Then again, I could be wrong.

Now on to the quotes. Someone, I cannot remember for the life of me who it is, but you did a GREAT POST saying that JKR has given us enough clues for both H/Hr and R/Hr so no one should be cheated. I agree. But other people aren't going to think that way,unfortunately. It's a matter of personal opinion. JKR may think she isn't going to trick anyone, some readers will.

Originally posted by LizardLaugh (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=406435#post406435))
I think Ron is really Dumbledore and that Hermione is going to die. That's not really for the shipping thread, but... JK is full of surprizes.

If you really meant that Ron = Dumbledore (I could be wrong, I understand a lot of things wrong), I can't see how that's possible since Ron and Dumbledore have been in the same place/time on several occasions. Of course I'm gonna embarrased if I misunderstood you ;) .


And I wonder if Hermoine went to see Krum during the summer...

Ron and Hermionie - I think they do like eachother...just not ready to admit it yet. Hermione still has contact with Krum, but that may be a friend thing

Harry and Cho- I was glad to see that Harry got his first kiss, but the way their relationship worked out was different. SHe was still sad about Cedric and always crying. They both do like eachother but i think that J.K Rowling made them have argueing dates so that she could save the main part of their relationship for the future books.:love:

I think it was pretty cool to see Harry finally go on his first date, and all his interactions with Cho. I'd been wanting them to get together for a long time, but after reading OotP, I don't think Cho's right for Harry. But dating is all about experimenting with different people, so it will all turn out okay.

I didn't really notice any new developments in the whole Ron/Hermione thing, and now I don't think that they'll be getting together. As much as it pains me to say this, I think Harry and Hermione will end up together. They've already got a strong friendship, and that's extremely important in a relationship. Hermione knows all that Harry's been through in his life, and she is one of the few people that really understands him.

As for Ginny's new romances, I thought they were great! I'm so happy that she's finally moved on from her childish crush on Harry, and she seems to have more confidence now, which has made her much more friendly and outgoing.

If you really meant that Ron = Dumbledore (I could be wrong, I understand a lot of things wrong), I can't see how that's possible since Ron and Dumbledore have been in the same place/time on several occasions. Of course I'm gonna embarrased if I misunderstood you .
Sorry for OT but I need to explain. So DRxD Its that way some people believe Dumbledore is Ron from the future. Somehow he used a timeturner to save Harry so he would defead Voldemort. Now why is that theory out well I give you a hint its how Dumbledore seems to know things even he wasn´t around. look at fictionalley and read Tempus fugit by hobbit_guy in dark arts. There you find a much better explaination or you went toIs Ron, Dumbledore? (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=10904)
there are pretty well post I hope so. I have it from this fic. Its pretty mad but still possible

Earendil great points! If Hermione IS interested in Ron, why isn't she giving him more encouragment? Ginny probably knows how Hermione feels about Ron (come one, teenage girls gossip like mad, especially about possible romantic interests), and she doesn't encourage him either. But Hermoine does subtly hint to Ron that she's not interested: she writes long letters to Krum under his nose, she doesn't stay for his big Quidditch match, and she doesn't give him sentimental gifts. Ron even thinks Krum and Hermione are dating; he asks Harry what she sees in Krum. I think it's crystal clear that Hermione doesn't feel anything more than friendship towards Ron.

Now, as the books are from Harry's point of view, Hermione's feelings should be ambiguous. Let's face is, Harry and Ron are typical teenage boys, and pretty clueless about girls. (OK, typical males who are clueless about women.) He's not going to know how Hermione feels unless she spells it out for him (telling him who she likes or giving him one big, "wet" smakeroo). There's no way that Harry, or Ron, are going to pick up on the subtle hints that girls give guys that they are interested or not. We'll know who's dating who, and who all the guys like. That's consistent with a narrative from a guy's point of view. The girls' feelings are going to be shrouded in mystery, because girls are a mystery to guys. I think that's why we have to dig in the book to see who Hermione is interested in.

Now just a question: Are Hermione and Krum dating? Ron asks if they're still in contact, and Hermione brushes him off by saying that he's a pen-pal. Ron, of course, doesn't by it. Harry was right there. But later, Ron assumes that they're dating. In the after-kiss scene where Hermione is writing to Krum: Ron asks Harry what Hermione sees in Krum. Does that mean that he knows that Hermione and Viktor are dating? And did Hermione not mention it in front of Harry because she doesn't want him to know? Hmm...

That's what I'm confused about, too, Mocha! What is up with Krum and Hermione? There's obviously something going on which JKR doesn't want us to know.

Now, as the books are from Harry's point of view, Hermione's feelings should be ambiguous. Let's face is, Harry and Ron are typical teenage boys, and pretty clueless about girls. (OK, typical males who are clueless about women.) He's not going to know how Hermione feels unless she spells it out for him (telling him who she likes or giving him one big, "wet" smakeroo). There's no way that Harry, or Ron, are going to pick up on the subtle hints that girls give guys that they are interested or not. We'll know who's dating who, and who all the guys like. That's consistent with a narrative from a guy's point of view. The girls' feelings are going to be shrouded in mystery, because girls are a mystery to guys. I think that's why we have to dig in the book to see who Hermione is interested in.

VERY GOOD, Mocha! Hermione is already a complex character, she keeps everything a secret. Harry knows her pretty well, but that doesn't mean that he has to know everything about her. Also, how well does he know her when it comes to matters of the heart especially since he's clueless about women.

You know what I just thought of: who will Harry turn to if he finds out he has feelings for Hermione and needs advice?

And am I the only one who is clueless as to whether Harry knows that Ron likes Hermione?

Hello, I’m totally new to this forum, just started reading this thread last night and couldn’t sleep because of it, lol. I so wish that I’d found this on, oh…June 22, around 7:30 when I finished the book *grin. Anyway, I’ve been trying to read through all the posts, got to page 10 WOOHOO, but gah, that’s a lot. Anyway, my ship…well, I must say that the HMS Harmony appeals to me greatly and as of book 5 it’s so goin full steam.

One thing I haven’t noticed anyone pouncing on in the forums are the looks and actions Hermione goes through on a normal day or Harry’s for that matter. Page 227 for instance: (context is them discussing how Fred and George could come up with any kind of cash) “What did that mean?” said Hermione, looking from Harry to Ron.” She basically looked up from nowhere and the first person she looked to was Harry, then Ron. Maybe I’m reading too much into this, but throughout the book there are examples of her looking to Harry first, helping him first, contributing to him first throughout everything, and just plain, always being there for him. It was even apparent in book 4 when Ron had his little tantrum about Harry’s fame; who was Hermione hangin with? Harry. The whole feel of it seemed like Ron was a bit of a tag-along the whole time too. Towards the end I felt like he was more on the level with Neville, Ginny and Luna as far as character importance goes. It was almost unsettling because I tend to rather like Ron, I just don’t see him and Hermione as something that’d last. Also, I kept getting the impression that Harry wanted to impress Hermione, granted, not in a way that he knew exactly what he was doing; I’m saying that he couldn’t help himself from trying (same line of thinking as the dream and the voice in his head J). Harry hid quite a few things from her because of what she’d say about it, but he told Ron; I mean, if they’re just friends why would it bother him so much that Hermione saw he got a D, or that he mixed up a few incantations?

Which leads me to personality of the characters: Is Hermione right for Harry? I mean compatability-wise. Well, we know that Harry thinks she’s at least pretty, and I doubt Hermione would call Harry ugly on her end either. So we have a physical attraction at least. Ok, but what about personality wise? We know that they would go to the ends of the earth for each other on a whim. We know that they comfort each other a great deal in this book (Hermione comforting Harry’s apparent, but Harry comforting Hermione was in Grawp pg 700, 701). We also know that for a while there Harry and Hermione were figuring things out at roughly the same speed, I.E. Malfoy’s dog and giant hint, they were quick to keep Sirius out of trouble as well, very similar personalites there. And we know that Hermione is desperately avid about keeping Harry alive and well, but something that’s a bit subtle is Harry’s desperation to keep Hermione alive and well in the face of Voldemort. This is evident mostly in the Department of Mysteries when Harry grabs Hermione first, then runs after he’s certain she’s safe, then her looking like she died scene, which is so telling it makes me wanna jump with joy, hehe. Now, granted, Harry has a tendency to help whoever he sees, but within the context of the rest of the book it’s so much of a beautiful moment. Also, Harry does a bit of defending Hermione to Umbridge (that was my assessment anyway) and vice versa, but that’s a bit more obvious.

Now, the only problem with all this is how Hermione reacted to Cho, I know, I know, we’ve been through this a million times, but I have an interesting perspective that I hope no one’s spoken of yet *grin. Anyway, here goes: Page 230 and 231, Hermione practically kills Ron for running Cho off while she wanted to talk to Harry. Then after the first DA meeting in Hog’s Head (Page 349) she tells Harry about how Cho couldn’t keep her eyes off him and had a slight smile on her face. This gives the impression that she’s (at least somewhat) happy about the possibility of Harry and Cho getting together. Then she does an almost complete reverse and nonchalantly but obviously unhappy with the arrangement by wording and descriptions and the fact that that ****ed letter is just way too long. I think most of us can agree on that. Now, in my opinion, there are 4 possible explanations to this change:

1. JKR screwed up on the dialogue and descriptions after the kiss.
2. Hermione starts the book with Harry as a friend, but as she sees another girl taking her place; she starts to realize that she wants more from Harry.
3. Hermione wants nothing more from Harry than what she expresses, but when Harry and Cho begin talking, she decides to find out as much about Cho as possible because she wants Harry to be happy and doesn’t like what she sees; she’s of course loyal to the core so she keeps her mouth shut, but has trouble hiding her disposition.
4. Hermione liked Harry from the end of book 4 and is an extremely good actress.

1 is not feasible in my opinion, JKR wouldn’t miss something that big, I don’t think 4 is in her character, so for 2 and 3 one must decide if Hermione is in it for the platonic thing or for the romantic thing. I must say that I’m leaning toward romantic because it’d be close to what Harry’s going through at the time and I feel like they spent most of this book on the same page.

Also, I heard something about Ron and Hermione’s fights being productive and playful rather than snide. I would really like to know where that impression came from. They argue all the time. They argue about food, weather, quidditch, schoolwork, classes, teachers, Harry. It never ends and it’s never resolved. One thing I like about Harry and Hermione’s arguing is that when they’re done arguing and yelling at each other, the situation is decided or concluded in some way. Basically, the argument happened, not because they bicker, but because they had a disagreement and them being young and relatively immature, the argument went in the way of a shouting fest rather than a discussion, which is what their fights will turn into now that Harry’s dealt with a bit of his rage.

Anyway, hope I didn’t step on any toes or repeat anything that hasn’t been repeated about a million times (though I’m sure I did J), but those are my two cents, hope it was at least a little enlightening.

For some reason I just caught to the "ship" lingo.

Sailing Sailing over the mounting waves
Where many a stormy wind shall blow
Ere Jack come home again.....and so on and so forth

Hmmm

I ride the H/Hr ship though I do a pub crawl with the R/Hr and the Luna/H and Luna/R ships every now and then I meet the G/N ships at the movies......

:)

:welcome: Shag0120
Now to your post. Well I try as always my best or less. Any way you mention this scene where Cho wanted speak to Harry and Ron comes with quiditch. Allright I think it wasn´t first that obviouse that she likes Harry it was much more like she wanna speak with him about Cedric. It was pretty known at Hogwarts that she was his girlfriend. Off course Hermione did know Harry fancy Cho but the case was that Cho wanted speak Harry and as Hermione and in that case the reader think its because of Cedric. Thats why Hermione react that way. Its the first or second day and Hermione is sorry for her.
she tells Harry about how Cho couldn’t keep her eyes off him and had a slight smile on her face. This gives the impression that she’s (at least somewhat) happy about the possibility of Harry and Cho getting together. Well, read Earendil post there is pretty well explain why she act how she act.
4. Hermione liked Harry from the end of book 4 and is an extremely good actress. Even you aren´t for that. I´m for it but I would cancel this pretty good actress. Its how Hermione react as she see Harry again she hugs him nearly five minutes and is speaking only how worry she was and how Ron once again mention that she did write to Harry but Dumbledore was the one who let them promiss not to do. In that case comes her birthdaycard back in play where she wrote they would see each other soon(It wasn´t Ron). Hermione don´t act she simply isn´t sure or better thinks that Harry don´t like her back because he likes since 3th year Cho. That say she act along as best friend but sometimes you see sign that there is more. How you show it that she looks first at Harry or that there are suddenly more moments with only Harry and Hermione what we never saw in other books. In OotP starts Harry to think different about Hermione how you show it. Like he didn´t tell her things or wasn´t that brave enough to tell her the truth or look in her eyes as he wasn´t prefect.

Thanks for the compliment, Grace!

I think Harry is very aware of how Ron feels about Hermione, and has been sine the Yule ball. But does he think that Hermione returns these feelings, or does he think that Hermione is hung up on Krum?

I think Harry is very aware of how Ron feels about Hermione, and has been sine the Yule ball. But does he think that Hermione returns these feelings, or does he think that Hermione is hung up on Krum? I wouldn´t say he is aware about Rons feelings. Its IMO more the line that he has an idea what Ron feels but after book 5. I wouldn´t be that suspicious about this two. Well its explain why Harry thought he is left out at the beginning but Hermione did everything to destroy this thought of Harry. I think that Harry isn´t sure what Ron has with Hermione. Not that much how we may think. Its much more like he think they are friends thought they let him alone to be close without him. I hope that makes sense. Normaly you don´t think of your friends in a couple.

Hey, Shag0120, and :welcome:

Nice post -- what you said about the little actions and mannerisms is absolutely true. Hermione almost always looks to Harry first, and THEN Ron. This may be a little thing, but when it's so consistent throughout every book, it's almost as if JK is making sure that she writes it that way every single time. Another thing: was anyone else struck by the amount of arm-grabbing in this book?! :whistle: I can remember an instance in PoA (the Shrieking Shack scene) when Hermione grabs Harry's arm in times of high tension and fear, but this is largely due to the fact that Harry's arm is the only one present at the moment. However, in OotP--we see Harry and Hermione automatically gravitating toward each other in the DoM scene.

Hermione grabbed Harry's arm as though frightened the floor might move too, but it did not.
--US Hardcover edition, pg. 770


Hermione gripped his [Harry's] arm tightly...<snip>...."Goodness, said Hermione, gripping Harry's arm so tightly it was growing numb and looking as thought she were about to faint.
--pg 758

And, while this isn't arm-grabbing, here's another similar example:

Grawp's hand shot out of nowhere toward Hermione--Harry seized her and pulled her backward behind the tree, so that Grawp's fist scraped the trunk but closed on thin air.
"BAD BOY, GRAWPY!" Harry heard Hagrid yelling, as Hermione clung to Harry behind the tree, shaking and whimpering.
--pg. 696

In these examples, we see Hermione looking to Harry for emotional support, by drawing herself closer to him. And it's not only in this book, it's there throughout the series.

Grace -- good catch on the chapter interruption. One more thing:
And am I the only one who is clueless as to whether Harry knows that Ron likes Hermione?

This brings us back to the Yule Brawl -- if the "point" was that Ron likes Hermione but hasn't realized it at that point, then it appears that both Harry and Hermione understood this. Then again, we can't be sure what exactly the "point" is. Still, my gut feeling tells me that Harry does know that Ron fancies Hermione, but is a bit wrapped up in his own issues to worry about it too much. On a different note, I think that Harry is utterly clueless about how Hermione feels about him as well.

I see what you mean Phoenix, so Hermione assumed at that point in the beginning that she just needed someone to talk to? Then later when Hermione realized Cho was interested in Harry she smiled to herself as if amused with herself for being so blind? It's feasible. And anyway, If you took that part out, the evidence for relationship would still have enough ground to stand on IMO, I was just trying to clear it up so some R/Hr shipper didn't come along and ruin our party :)

Hehe, too true Earendil, I was actually thinking about including those in there myself, but man...I just got tired of typing :)

I also agree with out about Harry's reaction to Ron and Hermione; to him at this point it doesn't really matter, they'll still be his friends no matter what happens *sigh*

Man it's gonna flip his world upside down when he falls in love with her *grin

Harry was clueless about how to act around Cho, I doubt he had the sense to realize subtle clues.

Greetings everyone,
This is my first post. This topic is 20 pages long, so I apologize if I'm repeating someone.
Has anyone noticed that Ron seems to be trying to get Ginny to gravitate towards Harry again? Everytime he asks her about her love interests, he always gives a quick look at Harry in mid-sentence. Then, of course, she says "Michael Corner" or "Dean Thomas" and his reaction is "What?!"
I guess he's just trying to watch out for his sister. At least (in my opinion) he's trying to fix his sis up with someone he would trust around her.

I think it is more to the fact that Ron may have noticed something (be it very little) between Harry and Hermione and may be trying to get Harry focused on another girl.

Yes, that's absolutely true, though he's a year late IMO. HMS Harmony is rollin the waves like there ain't no tomorrow (and there probably isn't for this couple *sigh* oh well, I'm still shippin for them). Also, Ron's doing a very poor job of...well, being a good guy, he talks down everything she says and buys her something she'll never use, lol. Poor Ron, at least Harry thinks his gifts through.

I think Harry did realize that Ron likes Hermione, but you know, it's like one of those things that you know but you haven't really thought about it, so it's not really in your mind....The point is, that he knows Ron likes Hermione, but he might think is only Ron's thing....What he sees perfectly is that Hermione hasn't shown any feelings for Ron (in the same way we see that)...

I am not sure Ron knows exactly how to act on his feelings. And I think that if he doesn't act soon, Harry is gonna find his feelings for Hermione and that could cause another fight between Harry and Ron similar to GoF. But of course I would say that.........(I'm pullin for Harry and Hermione). ssssshhhh!!!

I might sound rude, but I hate Cho!!!! ever since I met her for the first time, I just can't place her with Harry...maybe if Harry had never fancied, or nohing had happened between them, I could have learn to like her, but the :love: between them in this book make me sick! (but it was for good, he has at last move on)

Ginny with two boyfriends, kind of creepy but I like it;)

Ron fancies Hermione obviously, and J.K. make sure that everyone was aware of that, but I am not sure if Hermione feels the same way.

Hermione did show some interest in Ron at the first part of the book and maybe a little farther through, but at the end I sense something going on between her and Harry (what can you expect from a H/H shipper?) during the battle and a little before it, she and Harry were taking a lot of care of each others, he saves her form Grawp by pushing her behind the trees, and to the floor away from the arrows of the centaurs, and holds her by the arm while runnig away from the death eaters...and she grabs his arm in the circular room of the D.ofM. and stands close to him in some other scenes...:clappy: I found that splendid, but maybe it just me being paranoic with H/H...

Luna Lovegood showed some interest in Ron at some points, and Neville showed interest in Ginny by not letting one of the Slytherings take her to Umbrigdes office, and in other scene I can't remember now, also his grandmother said he talked a lot about Hermione, but I don't know...

that's all!
see you!

yes, but even if he does act on his feelings, he's got all that bickering and annoyance tension in history, so I think that even if he does, she'll turn him down. Myself and a friend of mine had an idea that Ron and Harry might be alienated and Ron might join Voldemort. Yes yes, way out in left field, but hey...there it is.

and as for harry knowing about ron's feelings, I agree with hermownninny, they're there, he just doesn't really care or worry about it.

Well everybody has said virtually everything possible but I thought I'd add my 2 cent:

Harry/Cho - It's over now. All part of Harry growing up/getting to grip with reality etc

Harry/Ginny - I like Ginny's character and this wouldn't be a bad match

Ginny/Neville - This is better though. Somehow they seem to fit together unlike...

Ron/Hermione - Sometimes I feel like the only person int he world who doesn't see this! Lol! I just think they're too different for this to ever work.

Harry/Hermione - Now this is looking more and more interesting.... There was definitely a lot of interaction between the two in the book and Harry is obviously putting more and more value on her. I seem to remember a number of times he tried to protect her or grab her hand etc, eg in the forest with Grawp and the Centaurs.

Ron/Hermione - Sometimes I feel like the only person int he world who doesn't see this! Lol! I just think they're too different for this to ever work.

No, you are not the only one...That's exactly how I feel...

*blinks rapidly* There are ALOT of H/Hr shippers here. :tu:

I might even suggest that all you fellow H/Hr shippers head over to Fiction Alley Park (http://fictionalley.org/fictionalleypark/forums/index.php?s=), which is pretty much dominated by the R/Hr shippers, and help us out sometime. We're way outnumbered over there, and IMHO it's a much less friendly environment than CoS, but the debate is quite interesting and challenging.

I sincerely hope that Ron makes his feelings clear to Hermione in Book Six, considering the fact that in OotP he was still annoyingly obvious yet not obvious enough to actually make a convincing move. Honestly, I want this to get out in the open and cleared up, and the sooner the better, I say. The worst case scenario is that Ron will flip out if Hermione happens to reject him, more so if it turns out that she does have feelings for Harry, and Ron will alienate himself to the extent of being more susceptible to corruption from the DE's. I don't think this is likely, but I have no doubt that it's appeared in a few fanfics. ;)

Cheers!

Mochajava, wow! This is late, but I just read your long post from earlier today and you showed me some things that I hadn't even noticed, like the ron throwing thing.

VERY VERY good post.