Book Five Romance -- was it all you were expecting?

You can count on that EARENDIL.....

Fiction Alley Park...Here we come!!!

No wonder FAP is sooooooo busy! I can't even load up the page!!!! Thanks guys for coming over to help!

Y'all point out some great things here!!! I just wish FAP was more polite like this place is. It's downright hostile over there.

Anyway, H/Hr had some good moments in OotP. Anyone who pointed about about those pauses, could you give me the link or PM the stuff. I'm too lazy to look, but will probably do it anyway.

See y'all!

Sarmi

JK Rowling said that book 4 was the pivotal book in the series, meaning the next few books would be different. Voldemort is back and everything is much darker. This tone was set in the beginning when Mrs. Weasely was trying to get rid of the boggart and witnessed everybody in her family (including Harry) die. The whimsicalness of death in war came across to Harry and suddenly things like being prefect no longer seemed as important.

A lot of experiences at Hogwarts that gave him pleasure and made him view Hogwarts as his home no longer felt the same. He had seen Cedric die and nothing would ever be the same again. Therefore, Cho, this wonderful crush he had, could never be the way he had forever fantasized it. He could never be with her the way he could have been before the Cedric incident.

In some ways, his relationship with Cho was very adolescent and funny (as I thought back to my own relationships at that age). Yet, at the same time it seemed very tragic. I don't think Harry wil be able to truly "be" with someone until Voldemort goes down. I think he'd be afraid to lose them or he'd think they were too silly.

I do think that his relationship with Luna will be interesting. She evoked in him a curiosity and empathy and I think he feels that she can understand him in ways that neither Ron nor Hermione can. As for romance, I don't know if I like that idea.....

This is kind of off topic, but I'm now in the FAP page...Can some of you guys who go there recommend a place to post??? PLEASE HELP.....

It's just..there are sooo many threads that I don't know where to start....

I don't think a Harry/Luna thing will happen..there is just not too much to back it up...she doesn't even seem to like him!!!
I think Ron/Luna is a probablity with more fundament...

But ya know Ennervate, I expect much darker themes.

As for the romance, I'm kinda glad Harry went through that time with Cho. He's now got some experience with a girl. Granted Cho wasn't that great because she was trying to sort out a lot of things. But Hermione was very helpful to him.

What keeps getting at me is that DD keeps telling Harry that Voldemort detests love. Love has got to play a bigger role in this than just in a romance subplot.

Harry's got a lot of love to give, he's just got to find the right person to give it to.

PS - hermownninny look for my PM.

Mochajava, I really agree with your post. I think that Hermione is gradually falling for Harry. I think it started around the time when she kissed him at the end of GoF. A couple more points that I think show Hermione's feelings for Harry happened at the HQ for the Order of the Phoenix. When Harry walked into the room upstairs he said he heard a loud shriek "HARRY!" and then Hermione hugged him so hard that he nearly fell down. I don't think that many people realize that this happens just 4 weeks after the kiss. Also, when they get the letters from Hogwarts and find out who the Prefects are, Hermione runs in and shouted "Did you-did you get-?" Then she sees the badge in Harry's hand and shrieks "I knew it!" "Me too, Harry, me too!." When Harry told her that Ron was the Prefect she seemed dissappointed. I think she liked the idea that being Prefects was something for she and Harry could share. Mochajava's post points out what happens after that, that Harry and Hermione have developed a deep friendship and feelings for each other so I won't go into that any more. These 2 things that I mentioned may be nothing but you never know.

Hello fellow H/Hr shippers!

Great posts all! I have to agree with a lot of you, I think this book definitely swung in the H/Hr direction. Was I surprised? Yes, very much so. I expected there to be at lest some R/Hr interaction because of Ron's obvious feelings for Hermione. But, after this book, I think it's become obvious that Hermione does NOT return those feelings.

H/Hr also seem to be getting ever closer in their friendship. I was shocked while reading the climax of the novel. I kept asking myself, "Where's Ron?" Hermione played a huge role in this book, almost to a point to where I felt that she and Harry were THE main roles. I have to say, I did enjoy Ron much more in this book. And Ginny, what can I say, JKR did a fabulous job with her character. She is very much a Weasley, and a brilliant one at that. Good for her for getting over her crush. And I do agree, I think this does lean in the H/G favor.

In reguards to the interview with Katie C., I think JKR is playing us for fools. Look at her reaction, don't you think it was a little too over done?? And of course there is tension between Ron and Hermione, that's no lie there. She's not going to give away any plot of hers, whether it is big or small, plan and simple. That, and she also answered the question with another question. It's her favorite way of avoiding answering a question without giving away too much information. Anyway, I think her reaction is what gives it away. Also, if you want REAL evidence, don't depend on her quotes. As we've now seen in OoTP, her quotes are not dependable. We didn't find out anything huge about Lily did we? It's stuff like that that makes me doubt what she says. From now on, I am only refering to textual evidence. That's where the red herrings and real clues are. But, if you absolutely insist on using a quote as a clue, remember to take it with a grain of salt.

Good job everyone and keep posting! I'm re-reading the book as of now and will post more evidence if I find anything.

It's good to see everyone again ;)

Cheers :smooch:

Ennervate -- you bring up a good point about Luna; she can definitely relate to some things in ways that Ron or Hermione can't, and for this reason, I think that we'll see Luna becoming a stronger part in their expanding circle of friends. She was in OotP for a reason, and her presence definitely added something that no other character could bring. However, I can't for the life of me picture Harry and Luna dating, so I would imagine that they'll actually become closer friends than anything else.

BabyMars! *waves* Haven't heard from you in awhile -- and I have to agree with you on the quotes. That reaction in the Dateline interview was too theatrical to be entirely believable.

FYI To Any H/Hr Shippers (or anyone, for that matter) Who Wants to Check Out FAP
The thread that we mostly post on for discussing R/Hr vs. H/Hr is the Debate Thread, which can be found on the board called "Characters"-->"The Trio". Backup is always welcome, as, like I said before, we are severely outnumbered there.

Cheers :cool:

Thanks Earendil!

I've ventured over to FAP when the love thread here was closed, and I encountered a few R/Hr shippers there who were very snarky with me. I didn't appreciate it at all. I'll give it another go for the sake of the H/Hrs there, but I'd personally rather be in a thread where the R/Hrs and H/Hrs debate in peace (here of course!) Besides, the R/Hrs and H/Grs arguments here are much, much, MUCH better. ;)

Cheers :smooch:

EDIT: Where is Sirius83?? I must give him a high five! :D

Oh, and Earendil, I've already seen a few R/Hrs convert because of OoTP. Even my sister, who is a rabit R/Hr fan, admitted that this book definitely weighs in the H/Hr favor. She says it makes her very nervous. Go figure ;)

No, prob, BabyMars. :D

The DT at FAP can be extremely offensive and annoying at times. I was just over there, and on occasion it can make my temper get so out of control that I have to resist posting there. I find the major problem to be the unequal numbers of H/Hr shippers--I know that FlyingPhoenix and Falcon are regular posters there, but there aren't too many frequent H/Hr shippers who post. The arguments that some R/Hr shippers at FAP use are so outrageous that I hardly even know how to phrase my counterarguments without being as snarky as they are. Still, it's always good to rally the troops, especially considering the way that H/Hr evidence tends to be ignored when one person says it there, so reinforcement helps. ;)

*sigh* Back to the point--does anyone else think that if H/G happens in the future, it would create ALOT of tension between Hermione and Ginny? We've already seen how awkward it can be when Harry is with another girl, because everyone knows how close H/Hr are as friends--it seemed as if Cho felt that she was automatically taking a backseat to Harry's best female friend. But Ginny is his friend too at the moment--would she still feel awkward about Hermione being much closer to Harry? My answer is yes. ANY girl, other than Hermione, will constantly feel overshadowed in terms of importance and shared experience, and I can't see it happening any other way. (What a random thought--*ponders own strange thought process*--it's just one of the numerous qualms I have about H/G happening).

Good observation, Earendil. However, I think if anyone might feel awkward about the relative level of closeness, it would be Hermione. Of course, I'm operating under the belief that Ginny's already shown she can reach Harry in certain ways that Hermione can't. Hermione seemed able to deal in that one instance, but she might well be a little disconcerted at someone else demonstrating a better understanding of what's going to defuse a tense situation.

I was glad that JK 'hung over' on the kiss scene... I would hate to see Harry Potter series become another romance novel...


I think Harry and Cho's relationship picked a wrong time to develop...


Obviously, Harry had too much going on with his life already (as Dumbledore has mentioned at the end of OotP). especially at the end of the book, he was too stressed out about Sirius's death to worry about Cho.... Cedric was just another schoolmate to harry whereas Sirius was Harry's godfather, deceased dad's best mate, and so on...

There's only one way this is going to end with everyone happy...
ORGY!

I believe I quote Maj. Margaret Houlihan when I say "That remark was BENEATH NOTICE!!" Beg pardon.

I will go to FAP tomorrow, though I hate the place, but I gotta represent. I'll bring on the NYC accent on them! :p lol I will try to catch up on all the posts tomorrow, too, because I am very sleepy tonight and wish to go to bed early.

I just want to comment real quick on Harry and "the point". IF Harry really got the point why hasn't JKR made Harry describe Ron as being jealous. We obviously do know that he is, but I think that if Harry hasn't described him of being jealous of Krum, or even insinuating that he knows why Ron is acting up, means that he is just as clueless about Ron's feelings as he was about Cho's.

Keep searching for interruptions, investigators! I'm sure there are more!:D

A lot of interesting observations here, I think JK will have major romantic developments in the following book(kinda like the calm before the storm) and of course the final. This book is a kind of turning point of the story in a lot of ways: the character development, plot and end becoming clearer, and the story gets darker. Anything could happen as far as romance.

However, I don't really see too much flip flopping around with love. With two books left there isn't really time to have the typical teen angst of dating for two weeks then breaking up, switching b/fs and g/fs, which I see as a good thing. JK cares too much about these characters. I expect the romance to develop in a fairly straight forward manner; that is the only way any of us can feel geniune about the feelings the characters are developing.

IMHO, H/Hr's relationship is taking a turn but in what direction I can't decifer. I wouldn't be surprised if Harry ended up without anyone. It is becoming increasingly clear that Harry realizes the danger of his position and the danger he is putting his friends into. If he was to have a serious girlfriend and especially if it turned out to be Ginny or Hr, imagine the risk he would be taking if Voldemort found out. Serious bait! I think Harry is beginning to understand this with the death of Sirus. It is kinda similar to the whole Spiderman story with MJ (movie version). "With great power comes great responsibility. It is his gift and his curse."

Oh, hi everyone! I have been reading the board for about a week now but this is my first post.

Nice to have you aboard SCedisto84. You make a good point which is why I think Harry and Hermione is going to take quite some time but is slowly developing nonetheless. Harry is not going to soon forget how he felt when he thought Hermione may of been dead or more importantly how he felt when he saw Sirius die. Even worse, once Hermione finds out what that prophecy said about Harry's fate with Voldemort.... well who knows what will happen then. Book 6 and 7 will really test their bond.

Didnt JKR flat out say that Harry and Hermiones relationship is strictly platonic?

i still cant solve the puzzle ... why ?? why did cho ditch harry....why did harry ditch cho ?? y ?? because of that friend ?? because of cedric's death ?and is it only harry understand cho ?? i was like u know ... but strange ... i got a feeling somehow ... very very strange ...but on nvm

and o i think harry has already realist it cause Hr and ron been staying together in book 2 .3 .4 .5 u guys should know = )

"Didnt JKR flat out say that Harry and Hermiones relationship is strictly platonic?"

Yes, she did......regarding the question of whether Harry and Hermione were going to date......in the Prisoner of Azkaban.

"Didnt JKR flat out say that Harry and Hermiones relationship is strictly platonic?"

Yes, she did......regarding the question of whether Harry and Hermione were going to date......in the Prisoner of Azkaban.

that good ..... i agree ... but mmm... nvm can someone answer my post ty

Wotcher, guys! Great posts everybody, Mochajava's post on pg 20 was most excellent!!

After reading ur posts, it's given me hope for a H/Hr ship.

Just an interesting note at the end of "Detention with Delores", when Hr asks Harry whether he wants to help Hr with the hats for the elfs. His response is like "no, gotta do homework". Wouldn't the Hr we know be absolutly thrilled that he's actually doing homework? But her response is "slightly disappointed".

Just wondering what ur thoughts on this are. Think this is another of those small H/Hr moments.

Sorry if this has been brought up already, but these pages move so fast!

It was because of Hermione, cho. That is where both arguments really started and ended.

The Grim, actually it has been discussed but you still brought up an interesting point. You would think she be happy with Harry doing his homework.

someone might of mentioned this before so...

anyway at the end of chapter 33 where the Thestrals are lured out of the forest, when there are only two Harry says he and Ron go on those ones and the others can follow if more turn up. What i find interesting is that he dosent choose the person he's had the most contact with in the book (imo) Hermoine but chooses Ron. And then when more Thestrals turn up it says:

"He had no excuse now." .........

I know that this has already been mentioned in this thread, but I thought it had such significance in the book, it is worth mentioning again. Interesting that Hermione' Petronus is an otter. Put a P in front of otter and tell me what you get... ;)

Think about it. If Hermione really is harboring inner feelings for Ron, don't you think JKR could have hinted by making Hermione's Petronus a Weasel? But no, Hermione's Petronus is an otter. She mut admire Harry very much unconsciously(and consciously!) to have had him chosen has her Petronus. That, and he probably makes her feel protected. I can't remember specifically, but is there anywhere in the series that explains why a person's Petronus takes a certain form? I tried to find it in PoA, but I only skimmed. If anyone knows, will you post it for me?? Thanks!

Too bad we don't know what kind of Petronus Ron has. Funny JKR felt she needed to mention what form Hermione's Petronus takes. A clue maybe?? Seems important to me. Why else would she mention it and have it be an (P)otter?

Final thought: Wonder what happy thoughts Hermione uses to congure her Patronus ;)

Cheers :smooch:

EDIT: In responce to Aramar, I'm not really sure what you mean in your post. It sounds like you may be onto something but I'm not completely sure. Could you explain it in greater detail? I'll try to read the passage again myelf. Thanks!!

Ah, :welcome: back Mars!

Interesting observation, and one that I find extremely compelling, too, though JK did say that her favourite animal was an otter ... good catch, nonetheless. :D

oh Gosh, is an Otter really her favorite animal Max?? I think that takes all the fun out of it! Wonder why she likes otters so much?? :shurg:

Good to see you again Max! :D

I know there is no explicit romance or spark between Ron and Hermione in book 5.But I guess there is a bit of hint from J.K .

If you have noticed, when Hermione is arguing with someone,she seems to have a habit of looking around and asking for support from Ron.

In Chapter of 'Career Advice' :


"What do you think about this?" Hermione demanded of Ron,and Harry was reminded irresistibly of Mrs Weasley appealing to her husband during Harry's first dinner in Grimmauld Place.

But somehow I seem to think that Harry's the one who gives her support at times without even her asking for it?

And I have to say that I don't really follow the parallels to Mr and Mrs Weasley, because you can see that although the both of them argue sometimes, you can see that they do love each other quite easily. Unfortunately I am blind to how Ron and Hermione show that with their arguing.

what i meant was, he's been around Hermoine alot more in ootp (imo) than Ron and yet he prefers Ron to go with him over Hermoine, and when it says "He had no excuse now" its like he really dosent want her getting into something that could be very dangerous and i don't think it could be because they are best friends because Ron is also one of his best friends. So why is he willing to let one of his friends take the risk but not the other.... (i know that isn't expalined very well but i don't have much time atm)

"If you have noticed, when Hermione is arguing with someone,she seems to have a habit of looking around and asking for support from Ron."

Well, they're prefects. Ron has authority in the usual arguments she asks for backup.

Harry's reluctance to take Hermione in could also be the fact that of the trio, Hermione is the one who does least well in combat situations. She does get flustered more easily than Ron does in dangerous situations. Her record there hasn't been the most impressive:

Book One:
When they're caught in the Devil's Snare trap, Hermione has to be prodded to remember the Devil's Snare lore, and then she doesn't realize how to apply it until *Ron* is the one who reminds her that she's a witch.

Book Two:
Got nailed by the Basilisk and so it was Ron that went off with Harry into the Chamber of Secrets. Still, Ron himself didn't get to do too much himself, admittedly.

Book Three:
Hermione goofs during her DADA examination, messing up with the boggart. She is helpful with the Time Turner but its Harry that takes on all of the dementors.

Book Four:
Hermione isn't at risk at all in this book. And for that matter it's Ron that's on the receiving end of all of Harry's charm practice.

Book Five:
Earlier in that book, when she's originally pleading about the dark arts, she reveals how afraid she is and how he has experience she lacks.

Now it's not at all clear that Hermione hasn't improved since book three, but you have to look at things from Harry's perspective. His first impression in year one was that Hermione was brilliant but tended to get flustered in a dangerous situation, and her examination in year three didn't exactly dispel that. Ron gave a better showing in keeping cool in their first adventure and the only thing that kept him from going all the way in book two was that cave-in that cut Ron off from Harry.

My feeling is that Harry has the impression that Hermione is a brilliant witch and a clever investigator and researcher but that she's not the strongest in a combat situation. Ron isn't as brilliant as Hermione but overall he's steadier. Of course Ron's brain mess this book may have dispelled some of that good opinion. We'll see where it goes from here.

Originally posted by Erise (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=409748#post409748))
But somehow I seem to think that Harry's the one who gives her support at times without even her asking for it?

Can you give an example?

And I have to say that I don't really follow the parallels to Mr and Mrs Weasley, because you can see that although the both of them argue sometimes, you can see that they do love each other quite easily. Unfortunately I am blind to how Ron and Hermione show that with their arguing.

I think it's more the fact that Hermione was automatically turning to Ron to support his arguments. She was automatically assuming that he would be on her side, and against Harry on this. Why does she seem to automatically assume that Ron would side with her over Harry?

I don't buy the prefect business myself. She doesn't assume the other House prefects would back her in anything.

Okay,
I hate to burst anyone's bubble, but if you look at every great myth and legend, the hero (in this case, Harry) always ends up alone. It is part of the burden he must shoulder as he fulfills his destiny. It is through his sacrifice and singlemindedness that others will be saved and find happiness. In the end, even after victory over evil and saving the world, the hero (if he survives) must still live with the burden that was his alone to carry, and will always be something of an outsider to EVEN those he saved. Pretty deep, huh...
What does this all mean for Harry? It means he's never going to hook up with Hr, or Ginny, or anyone else for that matter, unless they are just as much an outsider as he (Luna?).
You WILL see Ron and Hr get together, and others like Ginny and Neville and find happiness through Harry's actions, and it is through their stories to their children and their children's children that Harry will become the greatest wizard of lore!

They're not gryffindor prefects, she does not know them as well as Ron, or were they around when Hermione was asking Ron for backup.

Every great hero ends up alone?? Where did you hear that? What makes you think Rowling will follow suit?

Originally posted by R. Ravenclaw
I guess I'm still not seeing why Hermione would allow Ron's feelings to grow unchecked if she had zero interest in him. Unlike Cho, she doesn't seem to play games.

Hermione is new to the "game" of love too. Sometimes it is much easier to give advice than to follow it. Applying the same matter of fact advice to herself could easily be more difficult than it first appears. Basic inner conflict is all. Exactly how do you tell someone you don't want to be in a relationship with them when

#1 they haven't asked you anything of the sort (only hinted which isn't good enough reason to take drastic action)

#2 she probably isn't sure how she feels herself

#3 there is so much going on, the whole boyf/girlf thing could easily appear unimportant and/or trivial

Sure Hermione may seem so adult compared to her male and female counterparts, i.e. Ginny (who is younger than her) and Luna (who appears a bit odd), but she is herself only 15 (going on 16) years old. Sometimes it's fun to be imature about things. Why grow up so fast? Have fun while you can. If that means taking a risk (which may seem a bit rebelious for Hermione) and seeing how things pan out, rather than nipping boy lust in the bud, then why not.

'Nuff said.

:love: Tip toe through the tulips, through the roses, that's where I'll be just tip toe, through the roses with me...

I personally think that the reason Ron and Hermione denied their feelings for each other (again!?!?!) was because Hermione was too pre-occupied with OWL's. She probably thinks that thgis was not the year to have a relationship OWL's were so much more important!

Veritaserum

If you have noticed, when Hermione is arguing with someone,she seems to have a habit of looking around and asking for support from Ron.

The reason she does so is that she knows that if she had another person who believes in her point, especially Ron, whom Harry cares about and respects quite a bit, her point will be all the more convincing. I don't think that it is any foreboding or anything more than it being a by-product of her yet again, trying to help Harry.

I personally think that the reason Ron and Hermione denied their feelings for each other (again!?!?!) was because Hermione was too pre-occupied with OWL's. She probably thinks that this was not the year to have a relationship OWL's were so much more important!

Hmm. At the beginning of the book, when owls was mentioned I thought we were going to lose Hermione through her infatuation with her grades...but we didn't. As a matter of fact I was mildly surprised at the non-existant intensity for the upcoming owls throughout the year from Hermione. (Up till three weeks until the owls started of course) I would have thought that she would have been uptight about it all year, but she wasn't until crunch time, which I am thankful for because when she is like that she is quite easy to dislike. So in regards to your statement I don't think that the owls interfered with Ron's attention to Hermione. Hermione if she really did like Ron, would have not have let OWLS get in her way, she has her priorities right and she would undoubtably make the correct choice. However, she doesn't really like Ron, so as to why she is ignoring Ron's obvious emotions I'm not sure....

Originally posted by jr119us (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=409214#post409214))
Didnt JKR flat out say that Harry and Hermiones relationship is strictly platonic?



And then when interviewed for the COS dvd she admitted that "certain feelings between the three of them that belong to a slightly more mature person" were forshadowed by Chris (Columbus). Feelings, she further states that "I don't do [foreshadow] until the 4th book"

I was totally looking forward to hearing more about Cho and Harry when I read Book 5, and even though they only met about three times I was into it the whole thirty seconds... it was rather disappointing that they always ended up fighting.

Reading the last chapter I was just WAITING for Harry to see Cho and at least apologize/make up somehow, but they just go their seperate ways, never talk again... ugh. I think they could possibly make up in next books, maybe even go out agian, but I don't think it's likely. Frankly, I don't think JKR wants us to like Cho... she made her look very much more bratty than in previous books.

But really; sticking two troubled teenagers who are both mourning recent losses of close loved ones might not be exactly... healthful. Or maybe it could... they could talk about, heal together. The first time Harry and Cho talk she says something along the lines of "I thought you'd understand!". She just wants someone to talk to! It's all so tragic! *Sniff*....

I was so looking forward to H/C that when it didn't happen I was highly confused.

I'm back....:D I haven't been to FAP, so please don't kill me, I should be on my way to posting after lunch! ;)

BabyMars I also thought of Where's Ron? He wasn't around, wasn't he? Well there is the fact that he has Quidditch practice and there's a lot of homework, but after a while I was like hold up why am I seeing more or Hermione than Ron?

I'd like to add moments which I deem as H/Hr moments because they grab my attention:

US Edition: Chapter 13- Detention with Dolores- P. 260-261
...(Harry)marched off to Herbology with his hand wrapped in a handkerchief of Hermione's..."

I have a feeling he may still have the handkerchief. ;)

The Seizing moments:
Chapter 30- Grawp- P. 696
Grawp's hand had shot out of nowhere toward Hermione - Harry seized her and pulled her backward behind the tree..."

Chapter 36- Beyond the Veil- P. 787
"Run!" Harry yelled... he seized a handful of Hermione's robes and dragged her forward..."

In regards to this positioning, I'm a bit confused. Now aren't the DE's in front of them? Why is Harry dragging Hermione forward when there are DE's in front of them?

Edit: Regarding gifts, I'd like to point out that this is the first time we get to know what Hermione is given. I think we should take that into consideration, especially since we are also seeing her reactions to each present.

The one thing that I was expecting to see more of but didn't was the relationship b/w Ron and Hermione, it really didn't evolve into much in this book, well actually that's not all true, I was just expecting to see more. But its not like it ruined the book for me.

I was also expecting to see more about how and why lily was killed. becuase wasn't that something that we were supposed to find out or was that a theory?

quote:Regarding gifts, I'd like to point out that this is the first time we get to know what Hermione is given. I think we should take that into consideration, especially since we are also seeing her reactions to each present.
by Grace Granger

I think you are totally right, her reactions to each present tells a LOT....I was amazed that harry actually thought of a present that would go with her....and what a better present for Hermione than a book???and even more, an arithmacy book???? That was quite thoughtful of Harry...

Anyways...

I went to FAP.....Oh my God! I felt like really small among all of them......There are so many R/Hr there....HELP!!!!

Android -- you may very well be right about the hero ending up alone; I personally feel that Harry will die at the end of the series. :sigh: However, when I say that I ship H/Hr, I mean that I feel that the two of them will develop feelings for each other in the future (if they haven't already), not that they will necessarily date or get married or amount to anything official. That's just my personal opinion--I also don't think that Harry will have a serious and long-term relationship. If he does, however, I'm betting that it will be with Hermione.

idbeasquib -- :welcome:! I think Harry and Cho are over and done with, thank goodness. Who knows, perhaps Harry will be the bigger person and apologize to Cho in Book 6 for their misunderstandings.

Now, about the support issue:
When has Hermione ever asked for Ron's support in anything except for the example in OotP, when Hermione is trying to persuade Harry not to contact Sirius? The fact is, most of the arguments involve Hermione going against Ron, prior to OotP. All the disagreements between H/Hr have been Hermione on her own, and Ron sort of agreeing with whoever he thinks is right--usually Harry. If I recall correctly, Hermione has *never* enlisted Ron's support against Harry, with the exception of the one instance in OotP, in which she didn't even ASK for support--she asked for his opinion. And, big surprise, his opinion didn't agree with hers anyway.

BabyMars -- The [P]otter Patronus cracked me up--I never even noticed that! I'm sure it's been mentioned before, but that's definitely an interesting coincidence. Not that there are usually coincidences in these books: I would bet anything that we'll see this Patronus again, and find out why it takes this shape. (I hope we do, at least. I know it's JK's favorite animal, but I still think there may be something behind this.) As for the Dementor-Repelling-Happy-Thought (remember that from our old love thread? :lol: )...maybe the joyful memory of Harry telling her he didn't think she was ugly? *gag*

Grace -- the handkerchief line is interesting. Makes you wonder why it needed to be mentioned that the hanky belonged to Hermy--there are so many of these little things, and they do start to add up after five books of them. And about the dragging forward: I think it was more that he was dragging her away from the falling shelves in that line. Then, directly after that, a DE lunges forward to grab them, but in all the confusion they still manage to get a clear path away from them. Again, I have to wonder why it needed to be Hermione that he dragged away--it could be argued that she was the nearest person there at the time, but JK could have had him grab Neville if she didn't want it to be even slightly significant.

I'm off to FAP now myself. It's getting a little crowded there now; the server won't even load--but that's good, isn't it? Meaning more H/Hr shippers swelling our numbers? ;)

I think Harry is totally over Cho. She was being very stupid and selfish in the 5th book, and I think Harry realized that after all the events that happened.
I expected Ginny and Neville to hook up in the 5th book, but it didn't happened. No one said it won't happen though...
I don't know what to say about Hermione and Ron. There are some clues that they like each other - Ex. In the movie when they shook hands instead of hugging, (You saw their reactions) when Ron got all offensive when Hermione was going out with Krum, and when Hermione kissed him. I think this relationship will happened someday.

Whoops, looks like you caught me there... :o
To be honest, it was just a feeling that I somehow had. I apologise for my statement, it's either my imagination or those fanfics.

But Hermione doesn't look to Ron most of the time, as far as I know... because she's arguing with him, isn't she?
When she's arguing with Harry (eg. about Harry wanting to see Sirius), however, Ron sides with Harry.

Otherwise, I cannot really remember any other instances where Hermione looks to Ron to back her up. Perhaps you could refresh my memory?

And Ecthelion made a good point - Harry is very much more likely to listen to Ron when it comes to things that are potentially dangerous, in my opinion.

Grace Granger: Nice spotting there, regarding the hankerchief. Took me some time to find it though, I kept thinking it was after Umbridge's literally bloody punishment...

I think Harry will die too....but I refuse to think that way...He doesn't deserve that, eve if he saves the world...

I know this is dumb..I KNOW ok? But I always think about this..(maybe because is what I want to see in the books)..OK, before, it was Harry, Ron, Hermione, Ginny, Neville...More or less, those were the important Gryffindors.....If Harry had Hermione, Ron would be alone...if harry had Ginny and Ron Hermione, Neville would be alone....if Ron had Hermione and Neville had Ginny, Harry would be alone, and that probably would mean he would die....

But now there is Luna...I see this insertion of a new character as a way to even things up over there....I mean, now if Harry has Hermione, Ron could have Luna, and ginny could have Neville, and nobody would be alone...

I know I'm being an idiot here..but I really look for things that will tell me Harry won't die because he has a reason to live for someone...

A friend of mine just had a great idea...

Forget about Harry and Cho!
To heck with Harry and Hermione!
Harry and Ginny? Forgeddaboudit!

HARRY AND MCGONAGALL ALL THE WAY!
:p :p :p

Book One:
When they're caught in the Devil's Snare trap, Hermione has to be prodded to remember the Devil's Snare lore, and then she doesn't realize how to apply it until *Ron* is the one who reminds her that she's a witch.

Book Two:
Got nailed by the Basilisk and so it was Ron that went off with Harry into the Chamber of Secrets. Still, Ron himself didn't get to do too much himself, admittedly.

Book Three:
Hermione goofs during her DADA examination, messing up with the boggart. She is helpful with the Time Turner but its Harry that takes on all of the dementors.

Book Four:
Hermione isn't at risk at all in this book. And for that matter it's Ron that's on the receiving end of all of Harry's charm practice.

Book Five:
Earlier in that book, when she's originally pleading about the dark arts, she reveals how afraid she is and how he has experience she lacks.

Well that in book one is right but in book two is wrong if Hermione did mess it up she were dead now. In Book three you don´t know how her Boggart looks like remember what Mrs Weasley saw in OotP she wasn´t either strong enough to fight the boggart. Harry did train the patronus spell but Hermione not. So she couldn´t do it. In Book four was it I believe Hermione who teach Harry this charms. Well, thats right in book 5 Hermione did say that Harry is much better as herself in DD but we see later that she is pretty useful in a fight between DA and DE.
Harry knew that Hermione is a clever and smart witch but she is even very useful in fights. So your interpretation isn´t like mine.

Now to something different its the so calling skitrip issuse.
Well, something what I don´t understand that well because weeks before christmas break its clear Hermione will spent X-Mas with her parents. Ron makes even fun about her. But suddenly she stand before Harry and say that Skiing isn´t really her thing. I mean have I miss something? Why this sudden change. Look as if I have to quote this.
"Well, to, tell the truth, skiing´s not really my thing," said Hermione. "So, I´ve come here for Christmas." There was snow in her hair and her fae was pink with cold. "But don´t tell Ron. I told him skiing´s really good because he kept laughing so much. Mum and Dad are a bit disappointed, but I´ve told them that everyone who is serious about exams is staying at Hogwarts to study. They want me to do well, they´ll understand." See what I mean she seems to tell only Harry the whole truth. She isn´t honest with her parents and not with Ron. But who say she is honest with Harry? From one day to another she change her plans and tells her parents that she have to learn and is in true somewhere else. Well, i don´t know if she can lie that well I don´t wanna know what she hid more. Now to my problem what did she tell Ron? Honestly that someone don´t like skiing isn´t a reason to chancel X-Mas with the parents. It sounds for me much more like as if she did ask McGonagall where those two are and she told her that Harry had a nightmere where he bits Mr.Weasley and that this one is now in Mungos but is well doing. Now, this sounds awule as if Hermione cancels her trip much more because off Harry and not because she don´t like skiing. About how Hermione did look as she speak with Harry. First she has still snow in her hair and who do know snow its melt in seconds and her face is still pink. Now this room is in the third or fourth floor. In canon is written that only after few minutes someone hammered hard on the floor. Few minutes calls two or three but not five. She have to enter first the hall hear some sentence whats up and than straight to go to this room.

Something else I need to add and that is what Ron and Hermione are talking about its seems they speak mainly ; I better say Hermione speaks mainly about Harry. I need to show it:
"Hermione told me to come and check on you," and
"But Hermione says she thinks it would be nice if you stopped taking out your temper on us," That is what I mean even Harry left only seconds the common room Ron is already after him because Hermione told him he should go and do it. Well, I don´t know but Ron isn´t usually someone who dos exactly what Hermione tells him. She seems to speal much about Harry so that even Ron quote her. If I remember right in the past we did never saw that not once. Not in PS/SS, COS, POA or in GoF.

What we didn't see before? Hermione's concern about Harry??? I really didn't get that part..But anyways, she has always been concerned about Harry...in book 3, she told McGonagall about the firebolt..in book 1, she bothered them a LOT agbout not doing things, example is when Harry flew the first time to get the rememberall from Malfoy. In book 4, she helped Harry with the tasks...

Now, it is true that until now, Ron has neevr done anything that she tells him to do unless Harry was doing it too....

I think that ron and hermione will get together, then break up. Harry will be alone in the end and will not be with hr because she'll die. Kill Ron would be too much predictible and he is my fave character so JKR is better not to kill him off! I also see Luna and Ron together even if in the book Ron doesn't seem to like her.

And what's FAP? I don't know what people are referring to.

Quote:
Book One:
When they're caught in the Devil's Snare trap, Hermione has to be prodded to remember the Devil's Snare lore, and then she doesn't realize how to apply it until *Ron* is the one who reminds her that she's a witch.

I think you are forgetting that Ron needed Hermione to save her because he got to scared in the devils snare and Hermione fell out of the devils snare right after she found out what it was. I dont think this shows how Ron is better in dangerous situation (it only shows that he cant do anything and needs Hermione to save him from stuff), thanks.

What we didn't see before? Hermione's concern about Harry??? I really didn't get that part.. No, not Hermiones concern about Harry. I mean that Ron quotes Hermione. You know say to Harry that: Hermione say that or Hermione told me. That is what I mean we don´t see it before that Hermione suggest Ron to go after Harry or tell him something. Its a little bit strange, or?

Android -- what myths and legends are you referring to? I think that it's pretty evenly split on if the lead male and lead female get together or not. One of my old English teachers said that the only difference between a comedy and a tragedy is that in a tragedy everyone dies and in a comedy everyone hooks up with someone else. In Harry's case, he needs love to overcome Voldemort. JKR's implied/stated in the books that love is the only power that Voldemort truly doesn't understand. (But he knows about it. Maybe this isn't the power Harry has but Voldemort doesn't? Eh, another thread.) Harry has to have different types of love to defeat Voldemort, not just maternal love. (In my opinion, of course.) I think that in the next book, he's going to make a mistake: he's going to try and defeat Voldemort by himself without love factoring into the picture. He'll probably try and shut out the people he cares about and care about him, but find out that he can't defeat Voldemort this way. I think he has to have romance in his future, just to help defeat Voldemort. (And I do think Harry will survive. If he doesn't, and Voldemort does, JKR's world is doomed. I don't think she'd do that.) Just my opinion.

No, not Hermiones concern about Harry. I mean that Ron quotes Hermione. You know say to Harry that: Hermione say that or Hermione told me. That is what I mean we don´t see it before that Hermione suggest Ron to go after Harry or tell him something. Its a little bit strange, or?

FlyingPhoenix I'm sorry..I didn't get it..but thanks for explaining..I'm so slow...

But you are right...that's the first time we see Ronald Weasley doing that...

I can totally see Harry shutting out everyone he cares about and attempting to take on Voldemort alone in the next book... and failing.
Then I can see in Book 7, Harry and EVERYONE he loves (possibly all of D. A.) standing together as one to defeat Voldemort. But I still think Harry will end up alone. Appreciated by all, but nevertheless alone...

I can totally see Harry shutting out everyone he cares about and attempting to take on Voldemort alone in the next book... and failing.

I can see that as well, considering he started doing so at the end of this latest book. As this series has progressed we've seen Harry reveal less and less to his friends. Consequently creating a gap which has in turn, made a breach between the trio. How then will this gap be amended? I think that is where Hermione will come into play.

Harry needs Hermione. She has all the qualities that could potentially close the rift that is forming. She is stubborn, good at reading emotions, knows when to speak up, and has the courage to do so. This is exactly the type of person he needs....whether he likes it or not. This was clearly evident through the fifth book. Strangely I think there is a parallel with Harry's mood at the beginning of the book and at the end. In the beginning, as we all know, Harry was in a right state and wasn't talking much or associating with anyone, minus the yelling streaks. However, Hermione was the one who set him straight and in the right direction by stating what she thought was prudent to Harry, laying out what he was doing and vaguely and sometimes directly saying it was wrong. And here we find Harry getting into the same type of mode he was so familiar with at the beginning of the year, and I can't help but think that Hermione is going to be the one who pulls him through again. And maybe this time he'll notice!

Well, Android its your opinion and I can see why you think so but I disagree. But I don´t disagree that Harry could died. Anyway I think love will be important for Harry in his fight against Voldemort. We did see how the Weasleys did react as Harry told them he dreamed how Mr. Weasley was attacked. This one is interest because after they hear the whole story they don´t try once to talk with him. Its till eight o clock at the evening that Hermione is there and talks directly after she is there with him. But no Weasley do so. Now Imagine something in book 6 happen and its really Harrys guilt what do you believe who will stand without a doubt behind him? I dare to say Hermione. Well, the point is that Harry won´t be alone and thats why I think he will get a girl and that is Hermione. But you´re righr byside of her there isn´t any other girl which can reach him. We did saw how distance he was to Cho a girl he did like but still not that much as if he wanted stay because of her at Hogwarts. Only one thing did hold him there and that was Hermiones idea the DA. Lucky for him that he did agree to her idea its that thing what let him hope to come through his 5th year.

I don't think anyone's said this, but what if:

Hermione's parents died in book 6 since Voldy will of course go after Harry's best friend's parents to hurt best friend. Hermione and Harry suddenly share something and that's when they really really realize what's going on?

Just a theory, but it'd be interesting.

Originally posted by Shag0120 (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=410719#post410719))
I don't think anyone's said this, but what if:

Hermione's parents died in book 6 since Voldy will of course go after Harry's best friend's parents to hurt best friend. Hermione and Harry suddenly share something and that's when they really really realize what's going on?

Just a theory, but it'd be interesting.



I've thought about this, too, and I believe it's been talked about as well, I just can't remember if it's at the old love thread or at Hermione's Mysteries? :whistle:

another reason that's good is that it'd negate all this "Hermione can't understand where Harry's coming from" ****.

I also wanna say that I really really hate FAP, you sit down, logically explain the entire situation and they come back with more and more ludicrous arguments...jeez... there's only so much of that I can take.

Also, any new H/Hr shippers check out Mochajava's long post on page 20. Very very good.

Shag0120: I know what you mean its annoying but hey I´m stubborn and I do it so long till book 7 it out. I´m since april there and I started by myself a funny discussion about a simple word like platonic it was kinda fun to play like this guys.
But anyway Please don´t doublepost. I know sometime we so much to tell but simple use edit post and everything is fine. ;)

Hey, Shag, I completely agree about the hostile atmosphere over at FAP, but we need to keep H/Hr going strong lest the R/Hr shippers succeed in taking it over completely. ;) Plus, the H/Hr shippers that are already there, like FlyingPhoenix, do a terrific job defending our ship, even though we're so outnumbered, so more support is always welcome. :D

Not sure how likely it is that we'll see Hermione's parents getting killed of in the future; they're relatively insignificant characters from Harry's perspective, and their death would make a difference to Hermione alone. Plus, there hasn't been any foreshadowing, and I would be a little worried if JK sprung a surprise death on us like that. Still, it could happen, and I can see it giving H/Hr some more common ground--like they need it.

Help me out here, folks...
What is FAP? I keep seeing it mentioned, and it sounds very negative.
What's the dealio?:??:

Not sure how likely it is that we'll see Hermione's parents getting killed of in the future; they're relatively insignificant characters from Harry's perspective, and their death would make a difference to Hermione alone. Plus, there hasn't been any foreshadowing, and I would be a little worried if JK sprung a surprise death on us like that. Still, it could happen, and I can see it giving H/Hr some more common ground--like they need it.
Well, its likely because in OotP her parents suddenly much more there and mention as in any other book. See what I mean they are even at King Cross never before they were mention at King Cross. Its very very possible that something happen in book 6.

Android: Its the Fictionalley forum here a link but be warned they are rude so don´t be touchy. FAP (http://www.fictionalley.org/fictionalleypark/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=51)

Just for clarification:

Hermione was standing right behind Harry at the DE confrontation. It was her foot his found first when he was trying to pass on the message "shelves".

:) Have a nice day

If you don't like FAP don't go. I don't even know what FAP is but I know I sure can't StaND hostile forum environments. It shows major imaturity and at my university age I would like to think I'm better than that.

Hostile environments only leave one with brooding thoughts and is not good for sleep.

Stick with the responsilbe and good forums to make your Wizarding World Experience a nice one.

:) Have a nice day

My first post...just registered today. :)

I didn't have time to read the 600+ posts so I'll just throw in my 2 cents although I'm sure it may have already been discussed to death.

I can see a luna/harry romance in the future. The fact that they both have lost parents kind of makes them kindred spirits and provides away for them to relate to each other on a deep emotional level and harry seemed to really feel a lot of compassion for her in the closing chapters.

I'm pretty shure the R/Hr romance is a done deal but JKR has surprised us before.

Hermione was standing right behind Harry at the DE confrontation. It was her foot his found first when he was trying to pass on the message "shelves". She was standing behind thats right but he could have easily find Ron or Luna or Ginny or Neville because they were all behind him. But what he found was Hermione. Well, nice picture isn´t it? Searching in the dark and what dos he find? Hermione but not only once its twice.

:birthday: Grace Granger, don´t hide I know you has.

HAPPY BIRTHDAY, GRACE!
:birthday: :birthday: :birthday:

Yeah, the part about Harry finding Hermione's foot in the DoM was interesting; in that case, it really could have been anyone--why make it Hermione? Hermione had done enough in the book already; for such a small incident, JK could have made him find anyone to alert about the diversion--but she made it Hermione. I think this is representative of the partnership between the two: it's just one of the many instances when we get to see them working as a team within the larger team. And, as FP said, it is symbolic in some ways (well said, BTW).

LOL :rotfl: I didn't even know you guys looked up birthday! LOL Thank you, thank you, thank you! You guys have totally surprised me. It was a very good surprise. :D

You see taht whole DoM scene confuses me! If she is behind him then why did he seized her robes and pulled her forward. When did he even turn around to run? Does it say? I know it's off-topic, but I'm having a hard time imagining it! I'm clueless. :sorry:

You know Grace I have my ways everywhere are spys who know such things. ;)

I´m little bit disapointement why nobody explain me why Ron and Hermione don´t go together if they know they like each other? I would than understand it better, wouldn´t I? Now is only one theory for me possible that Hermione don´t like Ron and end the story.

About this DoM there is one scene whats much more interest where a Deatheater point the wand at Hermione and want kill her. Harry don´t use his wand he launced himself across the floor and grabbed the DE around the knees.

About this scene where they run the death eaters are behind them and not in front of them.

Another few reasons why we may see a H/hr relationship : (sorry if these have already been mentioned)

Here is one quote from the chapter "Grawp"

"Hermione walked right into him and was knocked over backwards. Harry caught her just before she hit the forest floor."

I couldn't help noticing how fast Harry was to catch her there - maybe a silly suggestion but you never know.

And finally Harry saved Hermione's life quite a few times at the end and if I remember right he left Ron to Neville.

maybe he saved her (Grawp scene) because he was being concious of her...He is noticing her more.....:clappy: I'm so happy!!!!:clappy:

Bexfizz FAP is Fiction Alley Pak, another forum where there are a LOT or R/Hr shippers, but it's nice and interesting. You should visit it sometimes HERE (http://www.fictionalley.org/fictionalleypark/forums/index.php?s=)

I think you are right. Hermione showed proof of being a Gryffindor right there.....I think Harry grabbed her because he was concerned about her. I mean, among all those people and he goes and grabs Hermione. That's pretty suspicious.....:clappy:

Hi, I'm a newbie, this is my first post. Anyway, getting on with it...

I think we're giving Hermione a little too much credit here. She is, after all, 16 years old, just like Ron and Harry. She may have some good insight into the female psyche because she herself is female, but that doesn't mean she knows anything more about mature relationships than her peers. I don't think she would necessarily hide romantic feelings for Harry so completely (even when its just the three of them in the common room doing whatever) as some people have speculated. She has raging hormones too.

I'm a R/Hr shipper because there have been direct and deliberate instances in the script where their feelings could only be interpreted as romantic, as opposed to something that could be romantic, but could also be explained another way. I think in order to understand what is really going on, you have to ask yourselves why Rowling would write something and not just why the characters themselves would have done it, if you understand what I'm saying. For example, instead of wondering why Ron would give Hermione perfume, you would wonder what motivates JK to have Ron give her perfume. How would that further the plot? I think looking at things from this perspective can give you more insight into what Rowling has in store.

By the way, has anyone considered that Harry may remain single, and not seriously hook up with a girl? I could see that happening. I mean, with every book he becomes more isolated from his peers in how much he has been through. The gap between his experiences and theirs grows wider every time he has to fight for his life. It may be harder and harder for him to find someone who understands him... except Hermione...

But I don't think H/Hr will happen, because there is just no hard evidence of it in the books. There is a deep, loyal relationship, yes, but that relationship is not necessarily romantic. Harry thinks about Hermione, but I believe that is because she is the voice of his rationality, like a conscience. He's not fantasizing about her. There are other reasons against it that have already been said, so I won't go into it further. Well, maybe later... :smile:

Yeah I used to think Harry was gonna die in the end, but obviously that cant be true anymore. So I think he'll hook up with someone (actually, JKR hinted at this) thats been a major character, not Cho, more like Ginny. And for sure Ron and Hermione will hook up, its so obvious!

Quote:
I think we're giving Hermione a little too much credit here. She is, after all, 16 years old, just like Ron and Harry. She may have some good insight into the female psyche because she herself is female, but that doesn't mean she knows anything more about mature relationships than her peers. I don't think she would necessarily hide romantic feelings for Harry so completely (even when its just the three of them in the common room doing whatever) as some people have speculated. She has raging hormones too.

You know when you say that you are also saying that she doesent like Ron, because you say she is only 16 and cant hide her feelings for him and she has in no way seemed to return any of Ron's feeling at all. Also I dont think anyone is saying Ron doesent like Hermione, but what they are saying is that Hermione doesent seem to return any feelings for Ron. She just doesent seem to like Ron in that way at all. One of the only reasons they are even friends appears to be that Harry is friends with both of them (and yah they where at together all summer, but that was to help the order and they where waiting for Harry to get there, they also had other people with them as well), thanks.

But an H/Hr doesnt make sense. Since the story is written in 3rd person specific to Harry, we would know if he had feelings for Hermione. He doesnt. So we can safely assume that she doesnt have feelings for him, because if they were going to end up together, we would have gotten some subtle hints from Harry's point of view much earlier.

:welcome:, Pottypotter and mel! (glad to see that you've come out of lurk mode, Bexfizz :D)

mel, a couple of things:

I don't think she would necessarily hide romantic feelings for Harry so completely (even when its just the three of them in the common room doing whatever) as some people have speculated. She has raging hormones too.

Following that mentality, why would she hide feelings for Ron then? The fact of the matter is that we have no clear and explicit statement of where Hermione's feelings are at the moment, so we have to assume that either she does not like Ron OR Harry romantically, or that she is concealing feelings for one of them at this point. Either way, we don't have solid and non-speculative evidence that she likes either of the boys.

I'm a R/Hr shipper because there have been direct and deliberate instances in the script where their feelings could only be interpreted as romantic, as opposed to something that could be romantic, but could also be explained another way. I think in order to understand what is really going on, you have to ask yourselves why Rowling would write something and not just why the characters themselves would have done it, if you understand what I'm saying. For example, instead of wondering why Ron would give Hermione perfume, you would wonder what motivates JK to have Ron give her perfume. How would that further the plot? I think looking at things from this perspective can give you more insight into what Rowling has in store.

Good point. I would also wonder why JK wrote numerous occasions in which Hermione shows an obviously pronounced respect and admiration for Harry, or several more instances in which Harry and Hermione are working together as a separate unit, illustrating their complementary character traits. And you're right; Ron's feelings are fairly obvious at this point, but Hermione's most certainly aren't. I find the perfume to be blatantly obvious, for one, and it's evident that JK is trying to show us Ron's feelings for Hermione. But, as of now, this is still a one-sided deal.

H/Hr, on the other hand, can go both ways at this point. *I* personally believe that Hermione's feelings for Harry are crystal clear, and that Harry is finally starting to understand the importance of having Hermione in his life. Unfortunately for the R/Hr ship, I'm getting the feeling that Ron lost his chance of expressing his feelings and having them reciprocated, because as time goes by, Hermione seems to be falling further and further for Harry. This is just my humble opinion, but, as many people have pointed out either on this thread or the other one, time is starting to run out. Strong and meaningful feelings will not be able to develop so quickly in the next two books unless they're already starting to at this point in the series, which is why H/Hr makes the most sense in my eyes -- the foundation is already there.

EDIT:
Originally posted by jr119us (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=411743#post411743))
But an H/Hr doesnt make sense. Since the story is written in 3rd person specific to Harry, we would know if he had feelings for Hermione. He doesnt. So we can safely assume that she doesnt have feelings for him, because if they were going to end up together, we would have gotten some subtle hints from Harry's point of view much earlier.


But we do have subtle hints. Harry may not have consciously noticed anything, but from the third person narrative there are quite a few interpretive hints that Hermione has stronger feelings for Harry. And we would know if Harry had feelings for anyone, not just Hermione, and so far all we know is that he's had a crush on Cho. The same rule applies to Ginny--if he had feelings for her, we would know it by now. As it stands at this point, he doesn't have strong feelings for either--but, depending on personal interpretation, there are subtle hints that he and Hermione are growing closer.

I think you are forgetting jr119us that we dont see everything Harry thinks, we only see what JKR wants us to (such as we never saw Harry buy that book for Hermione and we never read about him placing a great deal of thought into it). Also noone has said that Harry necessarily does like Hermione right now, they have been saying that Hermione likes him however and that he seems to be spending alot more time with her than with anyone else and doing other stuff with her (I am not going to post the stuff because you can read the other posts to find it), thanks.

I know that in this book it becomes very apparent that Harry needs Hermione, I was just wondering if someone could post some reasons why Hermione needs Harry though (and I know there are some since she seems to miss Harry alot when he gets back from anywhere), thanks

we would know if he had feelings for Hermione. He doesnt. So we can safely assume that she doesnt have feelings for him, because if they were going to end up together, we would have gotten some subtle hints from Harry's point of view much earlier.

I agree with this. Harry shows no signs at all in my views and several other people in the book club I'm in of liking Hermione. And Hermione not only does not show sings of liking Harry but to me she seems frustrated that Ron has not made a move and she wants him too. For me it's clear that Hermione likes Ron. But the dense little man still hasn't realize it that he likes Hermione, he show sings that he is waking up but still he's pretty much asleep on that matter. So I think Hermione will have to wait (and us) a while for that.

I know that in this book it becomes very apparent that Harry needs Hermione, I was just wondering if someone could post some reasons why Hermione needs Harry though (and I know there are some since she seems to miss Harry alot when he gets back from anywhere), thanks

It's not a secret to anybody that I believe that I dont think H/Hr are suited for each other. But Hermione needs more Ron than Harry. Ron is the one that can help her deal with her insecurities and lighten up and above all be more comprehensable of people and their views. I think this book portrait clearly to me, how good of a relationship they will have just with just a little bit more of tweaking from JKR.

Gily Ann

Wow, that post was like if you took everything the Harry and Hermione shippers where saying and just turned it into Ron and Hermione. Throughout everything else I have heard about Ron and Hermione (not sure if you said it in your posts because I dont want to go back and check), everyone has said that Ron is very clear that he likes Hermione and that Hermione is starting to like him also. Even the Harry and Hermione shippers believe that Ron is very clear that he likes Hermione.

One more thing, what insecurities does Hermione have. If you could post some of these that would be good (it seems to me that Ron has so many insecurities and I have not found one of Hermiones), thanks.

Also I am not saying that Ron and Hermione wont happen, I just dont see how this book did anything for them. Throughout the whole time Hermione was almost never with Ron and was almost always around Harry execept in the beginning and she didnt write about what happened so we have to assume nothing did (and if you want to say something did happen please revert back to page 16 where we discussed this to death almost), thanks.

It's not a secret to anybody that I believe that I dont think H/Hr are suited for each other. But Hermione needs more Ron than Harry. Ron is the one that can help her deal with her insecurities and lighten up and above all be more comprehensable of people and their views. I think this book portrait clearly to me, how good of a relationship they will have just with just a little bit more of tweaking from JKR



I don't see why Hermione needs Ron more than Harry, could you please tell us also what these insecurities are exactly, from the book? Though Hermione seems to be lightening up herself (well by her standards) by breaking numerous rules which actually derives from Harry and not from Ron as Harry is the one who breaks them constantly. Also where you say that the book OoP clearly illustrates the good relationship between Hermione and Ron, where exactly in the book do you get this from? Also if Ron and Hermione do have a good relationship, what is the relationship between Harry and Hermione? I don't sound to be hostile or anything about this post though it sorta sounds a little like it hehe =) just like some clear evidence from the book i.e. actual quotes rather than assumptions

I agree with v@sh in that Harry actually seems to be helping Hermione become less of an uptight person and start to break some rules every now and then. I am not sure if Ron even breaks any rules in this book unless Harry is the one leading him to do so (as is the case with the other books). I also am not sure how you see this good relationship between Ron and Hermione when Ron was in the book the least he has ever been and it was mostly Harry and Hermione that where together. If you could post these insecurities I would really like to see that as I have not been able to find any insecurities in Hermione at all, thanks.

Yeah, seriously - since when has Hermione ever had any really obvious insecurities?
Besides worrying herself sick about getting top marks in every subject when exam week rolls around, but that's a given - and Ron definitely can't help her there.
If anything, it's the other way around. Ron isn't exactly the most studious guy - that's no secret.
No, I think Hermione's biggest weakness (and possibly the only one), is the intensity of her protectiveness concerning Harry.
She always has the best intentions for him, even if they occasionally irritate him or prevent him from immidiately racing head first into the clutches of danger.
Most often than not, her determination and stubborness keep him out of harm's way - or at least stall him, by intelligently and carefully weighing out their options until ultimately allowing him to go ahead with whatever crazy scheme he's cooked up.
She's constantly warning him, giving him expert advice, helping him to study (even if it means sacrificing her own insanely long, devoted study time) until the wee hours of the morning, listening to any new sinister developements (in whatever mystery is currently consuming his life) with rapt concentration.
Her generosity towards Harry is endless, I think she would pretty much do almost anything for him.
Since when did Hermione ever help Ron study, besides repeatedly nagging him to start working or else he'd regret it later.
I could go on and on...but that's beside the point.
The point is - If Hermione had some terrible secret to divulge and needed desperately to confide in someone, I'd bet all the money in Gringotts that she'd run to Harry first.
Anyone wanna make a wager on that? ;)

Hr is just worried she is just like Ron everyone is just worried bout harry cause he bit too rush .... just like when he had that dream ....

I really think that R/Hr is obvious. Their personalities complement eachother perfectly. Plus it would make for some excellent drama since the story is from 3rd person specific to Harry. We would know all of his thoughts on the subject. It would make him feel really awkward around them and he would wrestle with his emotions. With H/Hr he'd just be happy, and happy is lame.

jr119us i agreee wif u

EDIT : it is disagree lol...

Originally posted by jr119us (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=413032#post413032))
I really think that R/Hr is obvious. Their personalities complement eachother perfectly. Plus it would make for some excellent drama since the story is from 3rd person specific to Harry. We would know all of his thoughts on the subject. It would make him feel really awkward around them and he would wrestle with his emotions. With H/Hr he'd just be happy, and happy is lame.


Yes, becaue that is just what Harry needs on top of everything else going on....

Going back to the scene in the "Gwamp" chapter, where Harry catches Hermione and puts her back onto her feet. This is another instance of romantic imagry. The hero catching the damsel from falling and placing her back on her feet is a very common and well known romantic image. Anyone find any others?

Cheers :smooch:

EDIT: Also, there is lots of touching between H/Hr in this book. A growing friendship, yes. Is it romantic? No. But, imagine what it will look like on screen...

they are not going to film that trust me

Quote:
It's not a secret to anybody that I believe that I dont think H/Hr are suited for each other. But Hermione needs more Ron than Harry. Ron is the one that can help her deal with her insecurities and lighten up and above all be more comprehensable of people and their views. I think this book portrait clearly to me, how good of a relationship they will have just with just a little bit more of tweaking from JKR.

I've always felt that Hermione had a tendency to make insecurities Ron has become more apparent. Anyone else ever felt that way? It's just an observation, but no one's actually asked: What does Ron need at this point? And I really don't think it's Hermione nagging him about all his faults right now. With Hermione and Harry, Harry has very few insecurities about his life. He doesn't worry about his personal faults, he has too much to worry about with who's gonna kill him next week. I dunno, that's just my take on it. I'm also under the idea that no matter what happens with Harry (Hermione, Ginny or Luna). I just don't see anyone falling for Ron at this point. (Not trashing him or anything, I like Ron's character, I just don't see him in relationships right now). Anyway, my take, tell me what you think.

Also, sorry about the double post, I forgot about the Edit button. *Sheepishly grins

That's all, thanks :)

WELL...yes it was a bit obvious... thoguh i whish there was abit more romane with hermione.
well she still keeps in touch with victor doesn't she? well i guess we'll know in the nxt. book!:crush:

wat are we waiting for ACCIO BOOK 6 !!!!!!! lol ...

lol @ Ch0

Wow this is a pretty substantial thread :)

I set out to read it all, got to page 12 or so and skimmed from there on, so I might repeat what's been said....apologies upfront.

Been a fan for ages now, just never bothered going online to seek out others, so this is my first post to the forum (and what a cool forum it is too!).

Were the relationships all I was expecting? Yes indeed! The relationship between Harry and Cho, Ginny's 2 relationships were adressed clearly (and I really enjoyed reading them). What interests me more is the relationships that were dealt with more subtly.

The relationships are V interesting, not just for what's passed between characters in dialog, but their actions as well.....and my view of the relationships is based on the *feel* I get from the 5 books, not from specific interchanges.

I think most of us agree that Ron likes Hermione. Whether that's reciprocated or not is up for debate, but even if Hr has feelings for R, she's aware of the bigger picture and the impact a possible relationship might have on Harry. They're part of his support structure, and she's savvy enough to know this.

It still doesn't tell us much about how she feels about him.

Her comment that Ron's gift of perfume was "unusual" says a bit though.....she seems more excited about Harry's thoughtful gift than Ron's knee-jerk "I like you so I'll buy you perfume" pressie. Her "businesslike" and "brisk" questions regarding the kiss with Cho and her comment that he can do better, means either that she has feelings for him (which she is prudently concealing given the load on him), or as a friend she honestly thinks he can do better, and given her closeness to Ginny she would have a pretty shrewd idea whether Ginny's 2 relationships are merely placeholders while waiting on Harry to come to his senses :)

Harry doesn't really say anything or provide much insight into his feelings for Hermione, but his statement "I don't think you're ugly" (paraphrased) is significant. Up to this point he's had so much to worry about that he probably never saw Hermione as anything other than a friend, in a similar mould to Ron. OK Ron's a "mate" and there's a lot of loyalty there, but Hermione is proving to be a lot more than that. It's like he's actually been forced to think about her in terms other than simply friendship, and his response is interesting.

When Hermione asks him to meet her on Valentine's Day, he agrees after a solitary query, and even then he has no clue what it's all about. He's just plucked up the courage to ask a girl out who he's had a crush on for years, and yet without knowing the reason, he simply agrees to meet Hermione, the trust is implicit.

The fact that they share most of the climactic scenes in the book is significant. I think JKR is bringing H and Hr closer together, and I'm no sure I like the reason. Don't get me wrong, I think they are right for each other, I'd like to see a developing relationship in books 6 and 7, but I'm bothered by the possibility that Voldemort could use this against Harry, possibly as a mechanism to lure him once again into a life-threatening situation. Voldemort has directly (and indirectly) been responsible for the deaths of the people most significant in Harry's life....and we know there's a means whereby he can determine Harry's feelings to some extent.....and nothing stops him from kidnapping or even trying to murder Hermoine in the future.

I think JKR has done much to drop a few red herrings in various interviews, she's keeping us all guessing, and I love it! I'm not saying H/Hr is inevitable, it just seems that things are heading in that direction, but not for the reason of pure romance.

THis has been a bit of a waffle, apologies for that, it's just that I haven't spent much time thinking about it up to this point :)

jk say harry and hr is inpossible

Another JK quote, we've been through this. JK is always cryptik and has never said straight up what will actually happen, and I seriously doubt she's going to start now. Thanks, that's all

Originally posted by jr119us (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=413032#post413032))
I really think that R/Hr is obvious. Their personalities complement eachother perfectly. Plus it would make for some excellent drama since the story is from 3rd person specific to Harry. We would know all of his thoughts on the subject. It would make him feel really awkward around them and he would wrestle with his emotions. With H/Hr he'd just be happy, and happy is lame.


At this stage, Harry needs his friends' support more than ever -- it wouldn't be very appropriate for him to feel awkward around them when Voldemort's out to kill him, would it? And still, if Ron and Hermione get together, Hermione would still, almost definitely, spend a lot of time with Harry. Ron would have to cope with that, or R/Hr would just not work out. Krum and Cho suspected that something was going on between Hermione and Harry -- that just shows how close they are, and have been since the beginning of the series.

Ron/Herm? I do not see it happening...from the first time they met on the train, to me it seems clear she only tolerates Ron because of Harry.

Now think back to Krum in GoF...Krum was mad because all she ever talked about was Harry....And I am sure she knows quite well Ron is constantly drooling over her, so she writes to Krum to get him off her back....

Ron is always asking Harry about Cho...or mentioning Ginny wich is kinda funny.

then there is:
Harrys dream of Cho turning into Hermy.
Hermy's embrace on Harry when they were at headquaters.
Harry catching her and bringing her back to her feet when they first met Grawp.
Harry admiring Hermys jinx's for the DA...

Lets face it Harrys Magic and Hermys brians...can't go wrong there.

Has nobody this feeling that Hermione is avoiding Ron? I need to explain. I didn´t regornise it but now I thought wait isn´t Hermione going earlier to bed and isn´t she excuse herself from being alone with Ron. I mean realy alone no Georg or Fred around them, no classes and no other pupils around them. If they are alone and its to early to go to bed she is sitting there is study or writing a letter so that Ron won´t speak to her. I mean its a little bit strange, isn´t it? Or is it only me who think that she avoid Ron and this topic. Now here are more R/Hr can you tell me Why R/Hr not happens in OotP? I mean if its so clear that Ron likes Hermione and Hermione likes Ron and that she know he likes her? Why isn´t anything happen between them?

Originally posted by copykon (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=413196#post413196))


then there is:
Harrys dream of Cho turning into Hermy.



Forgive me but which chapter is this because I think I missed it?

Forgive me but which chapter is this because I think I missed it? Its in chapter the eye of the snake Chapter 21

Eyes of the Snake, just before he dreams of being the snake, he dreams of cho, then she turns into Hermione.

And yes Phoenix, now that I think about it, that seems likely. She really does seem to be making every effort to turn Ron away without actually saying: "Ron, leave me alone."

One other thing I've noticed in my own relationships and from what female friends tell me on those occasions we talk about our feelings *ugh* hehe. Anyway, it always seems that what a woman most looks for in a guy more than ANYTHING else is a guy that she feels safe with. A guy she feels secure with. A guy that'll take care of her even though she can take care of herself better than you can ;). Come on ladies, back me up here! You know I'm right, I dare you to deny it :). Anyway, it always seems that Harry's the one keeping her safe and secure or at least doing his level best at it. That's my impression anyway. I think that's all, thanks much.

AHHHH, finally, totally off-topic, I just saw Moulin Rouge for the first time and suddenly realized what Phoenix's quote was, haha. Great movie, very powerful.

thanks

Well, this is interesting:

OotP, OWLs, British Hardcover -- page 628
Harry turned over his paper, his heart thumping hard -- three rows to his right and four seats ahead Hermione was already scribbling ...

What's interesting is that Harry only gave a description (a rather accurate one as well of where Hermione was sitting) of Hermione, not even Ron, or any of his other fellow Fifth-years -- he would at least notice some other students, right?

I love Hermione. Maybe she needs a different guy then her 2 best friends, right now. She is like their governess! Every single problem they have is HER problem and she feels compelled to solve their problems if she can. Actually, she feels compelled to solve all problems that come her way.

When Hermione and Ginny are eating dinner with Tonks, giggling, encouraging her to do different noses, it was such an un-Hermione moment. She was acting like a girl. I wish she could have more fun.

I do think that Ron would be better for her Hermione if he would just remove his head from his bu++. Harry and Hermione don't bring out the light hearted side of each other. Ron could make her laugh. I also like Ginny and Harry together for the same reason, in addition to the fact that Ginny no longer seems the kind of girl to pity or baby him.

You´re right Max thats indeed very interesting that Harry know and discribe exactly where Hermione is and well what she is doing. After that he look at the questions and thinks again about Hermione in a way off course I mean here his remembering about this troll.

Did anybody regornise that PS/SS and COS are awule often mention in OotP? I mean some scenes mainly in connection with Hermione. Thats well strange, isn´t it?

Originally posted by ChaliceInnana (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=413380#post413380))
I do think that Ron would be better for her Hermione if he would just remove his head from his bu++. Harry and Hermione don't bring out the light hearted side of each other. Ron could make her laugh. I also like Ginny and Harry together for the same reason, in addition to the fact that Ginny no longer seems the kind of girl to pity or baby him.


Well, I'll answer this with a question of my own: What, exactly, does Harry have in this book to be light-hearted about? I think he really laughs...what? 3? 4 times in this book? He has this awful headache daily that stresses him out because of where it's coming from. He's telling visions and knowing things he shouldn't know. He has a paper doing its level best to name him a lunatic. He has a crush on a girl who, jeez, has more problems than he does according to her that he fights with at every other meeting. And to top it all off, at least 1/10 of this book is spent in detention cutting open his hand over and over with a woman that took away quidditch, Dumbledore, Mcgonagall, Hagrid and made his worst enemy have the power to do whatever he wants to him. I really don't see that he has much to be light-hearted about. Also, when does Ginny make him feel more light-hearted than Hermione? This was a very dark book, very serious book, there was very little laughter going on throughout it. Ron and Hermione's main discussions were about Harry and besides that, they fought...a lot. My 2 cents.

That's the thing. Ron is actually a very a funny guy, but he does not make Hermione laugh very often. Quite the opposite in fact.

I dont know if I ever saw Hermione and Ron talking together in this book when Harry wasent there. I might be wrong about this but didnt he always see them studying when he came up to the common room and never talking (I dont think they where even talking when he got to see them in the summer). Also I dont think Hermione is going to be happy until Harry is happy its just the way it seems to me. One more thing is that noone has ever suppected Ron and Hermione have a relationship, however the only two people Harry and Hermione have gone out with have both suspected that Harry and Hermione have a relationship.

Also can you please stop using quotes about what JKR said two books ago. She has mentioned that all her quotes are book specific unless she says otherwise and she didnt in the quote everyone always uses anyway, thanks.

Yeah, that's true..if Hermione likes Ron, she doesn't make any effort in getting closer to him in any way....When Harry sees them, tehy are always studying apart. The only times when they have shared somethig (like when Harry sees them giving each other a "knowingly" lokk after he has said something) is something they both know about Harry and don't know how to tell him....

Maybe she is trying to not give Ron hopes when she knows she doesn't like him...

Brief change of subject, If any of you H/Hr shippers want to read a good H/Hr Fic I suggest one at the following link, it is a great story and I think it has been posted on here before:
http://www.fanfiction.net/read.php?storyid=1263133

Great! thanx pottypotter.

I think that Ron is probably jealous of Hermione. Viktor Krum is mentioned in both the 4th and 5th books and Hermione has a relationship with him. Ron seems to be acting jealous, or possibly he is just being a big brother to her like he is to Ginny. He over reacts when she talks about her romances. As for Harry, I think that he likes Cho but thinks that she was using him to talk about Cedric. Also a funny point I found as far as romances was that Luna likes Ron!

I don't see why Hermione needs Ron more than Harry, could you please tell us also what these insecurities are exactly, from the book?

Oki, Here are some. Do forgive me for not putting the book pages. I'm really running against time here.

From the very beginning Hermione portraits a very insecure person. JKR herself said so. Hermione comes into a world she has never known and up until that day she probably though it was made up. Her attitude of reading as much as she can and to be a sucess on everything tells a little about that. Ever from the beggining their are countless quotes in which Ron praises Hermione. One of them is when he uses the spell that started one of their first fights. Then he is so sorprised when she lies for them that he even drops his wand. He reminds her that she has 320 on her puctuation. He has no doubts of her abilities as a witch. He tells her that she is good but no one is that good when he thinks it's avery high target. When Harry questions what does she understand he responds "more than I do"

So while Ron may be rude to Hermione sometimes(which she has been rude to him also) he does praises her and acknoledges her importance and her abilities. Hermione isinsecure because she is muggleborn, a book worm and doesn't have many friends. While she has gotten better they aren't far from being overcome. Ron is a social adaptable person who can easily help Hermione overcome that. He does tease her but in a way that she needs to so she can be able to laugh at herself too in a future. Hermione is very uptight, Ron isn't. The balance that this make between them makes a very good combination. In the same way that Hermione helps Ron. When Ron is depressed about being sent a Howler over the twins issue, she assures him that it isn't his fault. The same way that he doesn't hesitate to help her when she is down.

Ron being a pureblood wizard has help Hermione see a point of the Wizarding world that otherwise she would know very little. He invites her to his home, getting her box seats for the Quidditch World Cup, defending her loudly and furiously, against those who would be prejudiced against Muggleborns . Still in book 5 he is doing so in areas where Harry just doesn't do it. And now he knows what mudblood means, but still yet he let's it go by, it's Ron who defends her. Ron's father introduces Hermione to Mr. Crouch and Mr. Bagman. Ron's brothers Fred and George introduce Hermione to the house elves in the kitchen. In his own person, Ron gives Hermione one of the things she most craves acceptance and approval from the wizarding world.

Another issue is the fact that Hermione is insecure about her looks. While Ron was very dense on his talk about trolls and finally noticing she is a girl. He does make up for it when he makes a fool out of himself in front of her. I mean no girl can't feel ugly while Ron furiously pounds pestles and demanding details about her relationship with Viktor Krum, referring to a magazine making her be a Scarlet Woman, and demanding to know if she's using Love Potions. But if it were up to Harry which nevers: "thought of her that way". Hermione could be wallowing in self-doubt right now. Sure, you might say that he's going to notice her some day. But right *now* is when she's coming into her own as a female and feeling insecure, and right now *Ron* is the one giving her affirmation and acceptance.

Ron appreciates and understands Hermione much better than Harry. He doesn't think she is annoying or that she talks too much. He likes her company, expect her answers by mail. It's curious of her whereabouts and likes to know what she is up too when she is being mysterious. He worries about her behalf and notices everything she does. While he call her a know it all on occassion. She is the only person that he seeks for answers. He praises her and tells her most recently that she is simply smarter and superior than them at which she shuts back at him that he is smart, also. while both made doubt the ability of themselves, neither doubt the ability of the other. But Ron also let's Hermione know when she is reaching too far and she should stop. There are several instances of that in the last two books. So while Hermione may go on a rant. Ron helps her to settle matters and keep her cool until the apropiate time. Whichs is something very crucial on their relationship.

I think Ron balances out a lot of insecurities of Hermione and Hermione does wonder to Ron's insecurities. For me it's very clear the role in each others life.

Gily Ann

I like the post Ginny, I can obviously see where you're coming from on that. I don't agree of course, I may have altered to thinking H/G wouldn't be any worse than H/Hr, I do think Harry and Hermione have their moments of mutual helpfulness and trust and caring. Harry is just a very selfish person at this point (arguably for good reason)
and is having quite a few problems worrying about ANYONE else right now. The interesting thing is that when his thoughts turn to worrying about someone else, they invariably turn to Cho or Hermione. My 2 cents. I just have this block against R/Hr for some reason it just...doesn't feel right *shrug* Thanks.

I know this is highly unlikely and some of you will bite my head off for saying this but you don't think Harry is giving Ron the "brush off" to get him out of the way so that he is free to date Hermione do you ? I mean he is a "little" sneaky and he likes to get what he wants doesn't he.

We would know about something that blatant going on in Harry's mind; he might be doing it unconciously, but I don't think so. He's rather ambiguous right now IMHO.

This is my first post. I think this is great I can talk to other Potter fans.

I first saw the movies and read the books this January and my first impression was that H/Hermy would hook up. After reading all the books I feel the same way. I don't think Ron and Hermy would even be friends without Harry. When Hermy visits the Weasley family I get the impression her and Ginny hang out until Harry shows up. While Ron hangs around with Fred and George. If Ron and Hermy ship was going to happen it would have happened in the last to summers when they were alone with each other, but it didn't. Also when Ron and Harry fight he goes and hang out with other Griffendor mates. Harry, on the other hand hangs out with his other best friend Hermy. I know this has been said as well but Krum is jealous of Harry not Ron. Cho is Jealous of Hermy. This is because they can't stop talking about eachother. Also Cho is totally cool with Hermy until Valentines day. Thats 2/3 into the school year after he's been with Hermy all the time. Harry could have eaton meals with Cho. He didn't have to stay with Griffendors every meal (I know this because Percy ate with his Girl in POA), but he continued to eat every meal with Hermy.

Last Harry can't be a third wheel in the trio. He is the main charactor. His relationship with Ron would be the same, but his relationship with Hermy would change because of her relationship with Ron. Ron would get jealous if they spent as much time together in book 6 as they did in 5. Also Hermy wouldn't let Harry get Ron involved with Harry's adventures. She would be to worried about her boyfriend. If she was with Harry she couldn't stop him because she know's Voldemort's in his destiny.

Well, I basically liked all the romance in the book, however, I was very annoyed that Ron and Hermione STILL didn't admit their feelings towards eachother. To all those anti R/HR shippers there is so much proof! I especially enjoyed Ron's reaction to Hermione kissing him and also Ron giving Hermione perfume.

I think the relationship with Cho was necessary as was Ginny's relationship with Michael Corner. Ginny has to open up to Harry before there can be any romance between the two. The relationship with Michael Corner acheived this, which in my opinion was its total purpose.


Overall, I think the romance was realistic and well executed.

Here is 1 more thought from me.....

Ron+Hermione is possible
Harry+Hermione is possible
Harry+Ginny is possible

but no one has taken into acount that one of these characters could die in book 7?

Originally posted by Voritian (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=411735#post411735))
You know when you say that you are also saying that she doesent like Ron, because you say she is only 16 and cant hide her feelings for him and she has in no way seemed to return any of Ron's feeling at all. Also I dont think anyone is saying Ron doesent like Hermione, but what they are saying is that Hermione doesent seem to return any feelings for Ron. She just doesent seem to like Ron in that way at all. One of the only reasons they are even friends appears to be that Harry is friends with both of them (and yah they where at together all summer, but that was to help the order and they where waiting for Harry to get there, they also had other people with them as well), thanks.


I think there were quite a few instances in Goblet of Fire where it seemed Hermione wanted Ron to initiate something... their argument about the Yule Ball for one.

And I do not think at all that Harry is the only thing holding these two together. If they didn't care about each other they wouldn't argue all the time, they would just ignore each other. And they certainly wouldn't be hanging out together when Harry wasn't there, which it is clear they do. And what about all the times Ron has stood up for Hermione and vice versa? To say they don't even have a close friendship is, well... ridiculous.

Thanks for the welcome Earendil. :)

To reply to your point about Hermione hiding her feelings for Ron, like I said above, I don't think she has hidden them. In the case of R/Hr, there has been some (although not much) evidence that she does want him to be more than a friend. Not as blatantly as Ron wants her, but still, there are small hints in GoF (although not in OotP, you're right). But there have been no hints that she feels romantic toward Harry, all I see is a deep friendship.

I think there are two reasons why JKR didn't put much R/Hr stuff in OotP. One, it is a pretty darn long book, with lots of plot machinery that JK has to manipulate all at once. If she fully fleshed out every subplot the book would be so long that the pacing of the main story would be affected (even more than it already is, IMO). Also, I think she wants people to be a little more surprised when it actually does happen, and to keep people guessing right up to the last minute as to what the outcome will be. You know she loves being cryptic. ;)

However, I agree that the best evidence is that Ron likes Hermione, but not necessarily that she likes him. It is fairly one-sided in OotP. And frankly, I don't know why Harry and Hermione were frequently paired together in this book. Perhaps because in previous books Harry and Ron had their adventures while Hermione was otherwise incapacited. Perhaps it is to deepen their relationship, yes, but I still don't see any romantic subtext. I don't think Hermione has the maturity to hide her jealousy at Harry and Cho, she seemed very supportive and not at all regretful or wistful. If JKR wanted to show us that Hermione is falling for Harry, that would have been the perfect opportunity. But she didn't, and that makes me doubt it...

You are right about time running out though. Which is why I think the possibility that Harry could remain single is a probable option. And I think that would be fine if he did, because then the trio wouldn't be shattered by a heartbroken Ron and a guilty Harry and Hermione.

But there are two more books for JKR to convince me. :bigtu:

P.S. I have not read this entire thread, although I plan to. I've only read to p. 5 so I still have a long way to go.

Yeah, there is so much proof.....that Ron likes Hermione

YES! Thank you for saying something. There is NO proof that Hermione likes Harry as more than a friend, sorry to all you H/HR shippers but even the woman of the hour JK Rowling has said in interviews that Ron and Hermione have feelings for eachother, and if you don't trust her judgement, then you may be completely lost.

Originally posted by Muffykins (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=412756#post412756))
Yeah, seriously - since when has Hermione ever had any really obvious insecurities?


Have you forgotten the first few books of the series? She's muggle-born, she has plenty to be insecure about in the face of people like Malfoy. And I think that extreme confidence can also be a mask that one puts up when they doubt themselves. Perhaps she works hard at being studious to make up for other flaws she believes she has. And have you ever met a 16-year-old that wasn't insecure?


Originally posted by Muffykins (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=412756#post412756))
She's constantly warning [Harry], giving him expert advice, helping him to study (even if it means sacrificing her own insanely long, devoted study time) until the wee hours of the morning, listening to any new sinister developements (in whatever mystery is currently consuming his life) with rapt concentration.
Her generosity towards Harry is endless, I think she would pretty much do almost anything for him.
Since when did Hermione ever help Ron study...


She helps Ron as much as Harry in the academic arena. I can't see how you would think otherwise. Show me evidence.

Originally posted by Muffykins (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=412756#post412756))
The point is - If Hermione had some terrible secret to divulge and needed desperately to confide in someone, I'd bet all the money in Gringotts that she'd run to Harry first.
Anyone wanna make a wager on that? ;)


I'd wager on that, because Ron has shown to be incompetent in many areas (Still love him though!). Doesn't mean she is attracted to Harry and not to Ron. In fact, an attraction to Ron may even discourage her, out of fear of rejection. Not sure about that one though.

Originally posted by jr119us (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=413032#post413032))
I really think that R/Hr is obvious. Their personalities complement eachother perfectly. Plus it would make for some excellent drama since the story is from 3rd person specific to Harry. We would know all of his thoughts on the subject. It would make him feel really awkward around them and he would wrestle with his emotions. With H/Hr he'd just be happy, and happy is lame.

EXCELLENT point jr119! :clappy:
In fact I think that is one of the things that is holding me back from believing in H/Hr. It would be so sappy and "happily-ever-after", which is the opposite of what HP books are.

"She helps Ron as much as Harry in the academic arena."

But not overall.

Everyone's forgetting about Ginny...*sigh*

*Looks around scared and whispers to himself* Did I say that?!
*looks up into the sky and screams* **** YOU GILYYYY!!!!

Just because you are powerful or have this, that and the other thing does not mean you have everything and
everything is perfect. If anything, H/Hr will just make things worse. More snide comments from the Slytherins.
Wait until Cho sees them together like that. Wait until Ron finds out. Wait until Voldemort finds out. Has
it ever been too perfect for Harry at all? Especially now?

Originally posted by sone (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=414582#post414582))
"She helps Ron as much as Harry in the academic arena."

But not overall.


That's because Harry is the one in life-threatening situations that he needs help getting out of. Of course she's going to help Harry more, because his life is full of mysteries in need of solving and predicaments in need of resolving. What is she going to help Ron with, besides academia?

Originally posted by Max (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=413358#post413358))
Well, this is interesting:

OotP, OWLs, British Hardcover -- page 628
Harry turned over his paper, his heart thumping hard -- three rows to his right and four seats ahead Hermione was already scribbling ...

What's interesting is that Harry only gave a description (a rather accurate one as well of where Hermione was sitting) of Hermione, not even Ron, or any of his other fellow Fifth-years -- he would at least notice some other students, right?


You have to remember that Harry is not telling this story, Rowling is. Why would Rowling put that in there? I see it as her reinforcing Hermione's character, in showing us that she is studious. The only way she could convey that is by Harry looking at her.

Or by Harry NOTICING her....
It's quite amazing that he turned to look at her..not Ron or anyone else..that's the point of the whole thing...

And Hermione helps both of them equally with homeworks....The thing is that she usually explains things to Harry (things about the mystery they are after) because Ron usually doesn't understand or understands everything wrong..(i'm sorry, I really love Ron, but it's true that he is always off)

Originally posted by Voritian (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=413876#post413876))
I dont know if I ever saw Hermione and Ron talking together in this book when Harry wasent there. the only two people Harry and Hermione have gone out with have both suspected that Harry and Hermione have a relationship.

Thats because the book is from Harrys point of view. We dont see conversations between Ron and Hermione unless Harrys there because we only see what Harry sees and what Harry feels. There isnt one conversation where you get Hermiones or Rons feelings.

Krum suspected a relationship because of what Rita Skeeter wrote and the ensuing rumors. Cho suspected it because Harry was meeting her on valentines day.

yes, but you have to understand that with a writer as talented as JKR, you can't do that. You have to go: "Why would that character do that?" JKR puts so much effort into every little nuance of these books and she wouldn't do something just because she wants to do something, she'd do something in character because she wants to do something. Understand what I mean? You have to wonder what the character is thinking first, then try to determine why JKR did that.

Quote:
Ron appreciates and understands Hermione much better than Harry. He doesn't think she is annoying or that she talks too much. He likes her company, expect her answers by mail.
Really? I never knew that. I have seen many times in all of the books where Ron has told Hermione to go away or said she is annoying and badgering them or that its non of her business.

Quote:
He praises her and tells her most recently that she is simply smarter and superior than them at which she shuts back at him that he is smart, also.
Yah he said she was smart becuase he was trying to have her take all the notes in class for them, and then she said he was smart also because she knew he could do it on his own. I dont see how this is really being nice to Hermione. Also you said that Harry never sticks up for Hermione and that Ron being a pureblood somehow can help Hermione. Well I have noticed many times that Harry has stuck up for Hermione (even when she has tried to restrain him), and since Rons family are "muggle lovers" all the pure bloods hate them.

Oh one thing I just saw, you said that Ron and Hermione have a great relationship and why would they be together when Harry isnt there if they didnt. Well in book 5 they where not seen once talking together without Harry with them, they where always in the common room together (at different places not talking as I have said before) which is not a suprise since they are in Gryffindor (so being in there common room with everyone else is not that weird actually), thanks.

What I'm trying to say here is everyone knows Harry and Hermione are close. It would be impossible to go through what they have together without being close. That doesnt mean that they are into eachother, in fact I think it is the opposite. Hermione has great respect for Harry, but they are friends, nothing more. Her feelings about Ron however are a mystery. Because we dont know what she thinks, we dont even see her when Harry's not around, because of the limited narration. We really dont know anything about Ron and Hermiones friendship.

Awesome (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=414165#post414165). Great work Gily Ann. :yup:

But Nightwing's (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=413160#post413160) and copykon's (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=413196#post413196) posts are beginning to make me doubt that R/Hr are so set in stone... They bring up some new and interesting points, in my opinion. I'm still leaning toward R/Hr though. :)

We know Ron likes Hermione :) That's obvious

So let's say H/Hr didn't finish the books together, can you still see them getting together at some point during the books ? I can.

I dont see how Hermione wanting to get good grades makes her insecure, throughout every book she has wanted to get grades but I dont not believe that is because she is insecure at all. I dont see where you get that anyway because someone wants to do well in school and life that makes them insecure for some reason. Also why would Hermione not want to be an Auror or something of that skill nature instead of doing something with house elves if she felt the need to prove something to the pure blood wizards or whoever you think she feels the need to prove something to, thanks.

"That's because Harry is the one in life-threatening situations that he needs help getting out of. Of course she's going to help Harry more, because his life is full of mysteries in need of solving and predicaments in need of resolving. What is she going to help Ron with, besides academia?"

I know why, I just said that she does not help Ron overall more than Harry. The reasons are obvious. They have been stripped piece by piece in this thread. However, Harry has much more of a need for Hermione than Ron does. Some of Ron's best qualities do not appeal to Hermione

I also dont see how Ron is able to help Hermione more than Harry. I think that Harry breaks just as many rules or more than Ron does (and when Ron does break rules it is almost always because Harry is leading him into it), and Harry is also alot more intelligent and thoughtfull then Ron is (there are many examples of this in the book and in other posts if you want to see them you can look), thanks.

Opposites attract! Ron and Hermione complement eachother perfectly.

Shes estudious, hes fun. They bring out in eachother what the other one lacks.

Well if you call incompetent fun I completely agree with you. So what you are saying is Hermione is good at everything and Ron is not intelligent and isnt good at stuff so yah I agree with that, thanks.

I think that next book Ron might become better though since Fred and George will be gone and he will be able to do stuff without being worried about what they will say about it. Also right after I read the book I thought Ginny was more annoying than anyone in the book, however, now I think that she is kind of cool and will only get better, thanks.

chill

what i said is that they complement eachother. Hermione works hard, doesnt allow herself to think about anything but work. Ron loosens her up, tells jokes, definetley doesnt work too hard. Hermione makes him more disciplined, he gets her to loosen up.

They say that we are all attracted to what we dont have

I dont need to *chill* because I was not angry or upset in any way. But I dont see your reasoning behind this at all. I dont think Ron and Hermione where together almost at all in this book without Harry being there (and even when Harry was there Ron wasent there alot of the time), and I dont think Hermione laughed at anything Ron said or even took much notice to it, thanks.

First of all, let's all try not to a) double-post and b) start being snarky with each other. :)

About complementary characters:
It can be said that two characters complement each other when one character has personality traits that are not shared by the other character, and the pair are able to use their contrasting traits in a productive and positive manner.

Ron/Hermione
Ron is amusing, fun-loving, easy-going, and often attention-craving. Hermione is studious, uptight, practical, responsible, and often enjoys being in the spotlight as well. While most of their traits are contrasting, they do not complement each other. Hermione is not amused by Ron's humor, nor does she approve of his indolent attitude towards studying. In fact, many arguments between R/Hr originate from Ron's more easy-going outlook on situation's, which Hermione disagrees with, or Hermione's more sensible outlook, which Ron disagrees with. Their contrasting traits, therefore, do not play off each other in a way that is either beneficial or positive to either party, or to the situation as a whole.

One more thing: one of the few traits that they share is the tendency to bask in the spotlight. Hermione enjoys the attention she receives for being exceptionally smart; Ron enjoys the attention he receives from anything he can get. If anything, this would lead to clashing and vying for the spotlight, as we have already seen Ron being fully capable of.

Harry/Hermione
Harry is impulsive, rash, courageous, and rebellious. Hermione, as I said above, is studious, uptight, practical, and responsible. Where Harry is inclined to be impulsive and take the reckless course of action, Hermione invariably tends to reason with him and force him to see the more practical perspective. Where Harry tends to take the course of bravado and irrational courage, Hermione is able to understand the ramifications of such action. There is no clashing of different traits here. H/Hr's complementary characters play off one another to establish a productive team in the face of any conflict.

I think that Hermiones diligence to her school work is something that more makes her powerfull than it is a weakness at all. I do not believe that she would necessarily be the most powerfull of them if she did not study (and I dont think she is more powerfull than Harry even with all her studying), but I believe that much of her power comes from her commitment to her work and her discipline and if that is taken away I think that would greatly weaken her, thanks.

This one is interest don´t you think?
Daringly, Fred and George had put an Enlargement Charm on the front cover of The Quibbler and hung it on the wall, so that Harry´s giant head gazing down upon the proceedings, occasionally saying things like "The Ministery are morons" and "Eat dung, Umbridge!" in a booming voice. Hermione did not find this very amusing; she said it interfered with her concentration, and she ended up going to bed early out of irritation

See what I mean its quiete interest, isn´t it?;)

I agree with you Earendil that Hermione does like attention, however, I dont not believe that she needs it as much as Ron seems to. I think that she likes the fact that she always has the right answer and that everyone knows that, but I dont think that is the only reason she tries to learn as much as she does. I think however that Ron sometimes does stuff only to get attention and that is more important to him than most other things, thanks.

Ron needs the attention b/c of his huge family where everyone else has already accomplished something. Even Percy, black sheep that he is, works directly with the minister. Ron feels left out when nobody pays him any attention, whereas Hermione is pretty much happy no matter who notices her. She was the only one who could deal with the Skeeter articles maturely in GoF, remember?

I was disappointed, I was promised 'hormones' :angry: .
And well, all we got was a kiss, really. The Ginny and Michael things was a fiasco, and Hermione with Ron, god...I thought that was it, but nooo, I guess we'll have to wait for the next book, even for the seventh, since James an Lily started dating at seventh year.

I just thought of something that I dont think anyone has mentioned. It says that Hermione was writing to Krum about two months into the school year, but it never says that he writes back, and also about a week after she writes that letter Harry meets with Hermione, Luna and Reta which kind of makes me believe she was writing about that and not to Krum at all (I know this isnt likely but I just thought that I would post it anyway), thanks.

Voritian: Nope this letter wasn´t for Rita. I show you why: The beetle at bay: "To send a letter," said Hermione,"It...well, I don´t know whether..but its worth trying...and I´m the only one who can."

Thats right after the ten death eaters breaking out. So this other letter was for Krum.

I assumed that the letter was for Rita, as the wording of the quote in FP's post seemed to indicate that Hermione was the only one who could blackmail Rita into writing that article, and since the meeting happened soon after the letter was sent.

I also noticed that we never see Hermione receiving a reply from Krum. Maybe he did write back, and Harry never noticed? I actually tend to think that it's irrelevant whether their correspondence is flourishing, because I seriously doubt that this is a serious relationship or that it's of any importance to the plot.

Here's a point:

Ron, for all his intention to be an Auror because it is cool, is more likely to end up in the Ministry. Of all the Weasley children, he's the one most like his dad. He doesn't have his dad's Muggle obsession, but in some ways that might well be for the best.

Hermione's future interest is in SPEW, and I expect she might want to branch out to other non-human races, her experience with giants and centaurs notwithstanding. :) That means getting laws passed by the Ministry of Magic. Guess who might well end up having a career in the Ministry of Magic in the relevent department?

Why can't Hermione have her own career? Well, look at the track record of Hermione getting others to join SPEW and you start to see the point. She is not the most politically and socially adept person in the world. And for all she denigrates Ron about being clueless about women, he's the one who recognized that she was just going to make the House Elves upset, something Dobby later confirmed. Ron I think will inherit his dad's likability and charm (which got them tickets to the Quidditch World Cup). Hermione needs Ron, first because he's more perceptive about other races than she is, and second because he'll do a better job of selling people on laws to protect House Elves than she is.

Harry plans to become an Auror, which is nice but not anything that Hermione has an interest in. We don't know what career Ginny will pick yet, but given the experiences she went through and seems to have made a full recovery from in the first book (plus her raw power), she might well decide to be an Auror like Harry. They could possibly be another husband and wife Auror team like the Longbottoms (hopefully with a happier ending).

Oh one other point, after Ron tore up Percy's letter tellling him to drop Potter, Hermione relented and agreed to help Harry and Ron with their homework. When you look at the results, she actually put far more work into Ron's essay than Harry's. Now of course it could have just been that Ron's essay needed more work, but perhaps she wanted Ron to get a better grade... :)

Honestly, the whole kissing scene was soooo scarily similiar to how I imagined it. The way she wrote it, who said what, who did what.

It was so adorable though, I think the last time I squealed that much I was playing Wilbur from Charlotte's Web in a school play. :o

I am not sure if I am getting what you said correctly, but are you saying that Hermione should be with Ron because he can help her politically? I dont think that would be the best reason for them to get together in my opinion. Also I am not sure why everyone says Ginny has raw power, where did she demonstrate this? I think that in the MoM she was more of a hinderance than help to them and I dont know if she even attacked one of the DE's there, thanks.

When you look at the results, she actually put far more work into Ron's essay than Harry's. Now of course it could have just been that Ron's essay needed more work, but perhaps she wanted Ron to get a better grade...

Like you said Hermione did put more work into Ron's essay as he needed it, though regarding that last part of your post I think Hermione wants both boys to get better grades not just Rons.

Also about Hermione's insecurities, I see where GilyAnn is coming from, however, I think Hermione has overcome that by now or is close to it because we know shes quite confident in her magical skills as shown in her knowledge and intelligence over the past book or two. The thing is to me many us debaters like to take extracts from the earlier books i.e. PS, Cos and to a lesser extend PoA. I find using these extracts doesn't prove much because this is the time where the trio form their friendship and don't worry about romantic feelings for each other. Thus the main evidence should be taken from GoF and OoP.

I also see where R/Hr shippers are coming from i.e. they see that opposites attract, arguing leads to romance, clashing personalities make good couples etc. though this is where us H/Hr shippers see the weakness in the couple whereas R/Hr shippers see it as its strength and vice-versa where R/Hr shippers see that the relationship between H/Hr is too happy and snuggly but we see it as they complementing each other.

BUT the clash in personalities between R/Hr is that when they clash it isn't of anything flirtacious in any way. What I find is that 'some' not all R/Hr back up with evidence such as Hermione been angry when Fluer kisses him is they don't regard Hermione's other reason why she is angry and that is the way Ron conducts himself to get attention from Fluer. There are many instances where we can support the ships we support but sometimes i think most of us look into things too far, which doesn't mean it bad but quite humerous actually.

After reading OoP the R/Hr ship is still one-sided with Ron liking Hermione though this is less seen and that H/Hr bond has grown a lot closer, i don't think its quite romantic as yet but i think subconsciously they are both getting closer to it. Hermione more so than Harry. And also regarding the kisses Hermione gave to Harry and Ron. I think shippers are dwelling into that too much and both are platonic hahaha, some of the things i've seen are quite ludicrous and the reactions by both boys was quite expected.

Ron is not thick but he goes about things differently than Harry and Hermione. There is far more determination with them than Ron.

I'm not even going to try to say who would be better with whom but I do think that the series has been building towards a relationship between Hermione and Ron. It just seems that that's what JKR is leading us up to. I honestly don't see her building a relationship between Hermione and Harry after all the hints that Ron likes Hermione so much, and after the whole Yule Ball scene. Just my take on things. I could be wrong, but, I suppose, any way it goes, someone's going to be disappointed.

Originally posted by sone (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=416133#post416133))
Ron is not thick but he goes about things differently than Harry and Hermione. There is far more determination with them than Ron.

I don't know. I know I've argued Ron's the impulsive, easily distracted one before, but I'm starting to think his mind operates more similarly to Hermione's than Harry's. We know from his chess-playing abilities that he's capable of strategy and logic. And his theories, while not terribly complex and usually wrong, are built on reasonably solid pieces of evidence. Harry, on the other hand, seems to depend more on stumbling across things that will give him sudden flashes of insight. He's certainly not more methodical: just luckier.

But all of this tends to point at Ron's poorly experessed and even more poorly masked feelings about Hermione, there isn't anything to suggest (particularly nothing in this book) that suggests that Hermione reciprocates those feelings. Instead, she seems to be growing closer (platonically at the moment) to Harry. And the old quote still holds:

"Harry needs Hermione badly."

Ahh.I love this topic. I've read every page thus far, I have to say I'm rootin for H/Hr. It just seems there's more there to me. Heh I might join in this little argument soon.

I think if you do decide to join the in this arguement you should stay here and not go to the book six relationships one, it has become post after post of quoting each other, thanks.

I don't know. I know I've argued Ron's the impulsive, easily distracted one before, but I'm starting to think his mind operates more similarly to Hermione's than Harry's. We know from his chess-playing abilities that he's capable of strategy and logic. And his theories, while not terribly complex and usually wrong, are built on reasonably solid pieces of evidence. Harry, on the other hand, seems to depend more on stumbling across things that will give him sudden flashes of insight. He's certainly not more methodical: just luckier.


Well I am not talking about brains. All the Weasleys (let alone Ron) have them and so do Harry and Hermione. It is no secret to me why two of them were named prefects with the other one being considered but not chosen for various reasons. Or the fact that two of them, their brilliant play on the Quidditch field brought Gryffindor the cup two out of the past three years. Or the fact that one of them even brilliantly teaches everyone from second years to seventh years DADA. Or even the fact that one of them is known as the most brilliant student in the school.

No, what I am talking about is determination, resourcefulness and spotting things that other people don't. Hermione and Harry, I think are better at this than Ron. I can make examples all the way back to book one. Hermione and Harry however, as smart as they are, sometimes need something waved right under their nose before they actually notice it. Ron, I believe, is more methodical than the both of them. It would explain why they cannot beat him at chess. However, Ron does not notice the smaller things that Harry and Hermione so often catch on to. The incident with Malfoy is one of them.

Ron and Hermione are the OBVIOUS couple. Let us examine the text evidence

"Good luck, Ron," said Hermione, standing on tiptoe and kissing him on the cheek. "And you Harry-"
Ron seemed to come to himself slightly as they walked back across the Great Hall. He touched the spot on his face where Hermione had kissed him, looking puzzled, as though he was not quite sure what had just happened. He seemed too distracted to notice much around him...


"Fleur swooped down on him (Ron), too, and kissed him. Hermione looked simply furious. "


"Oh ... yes ... all right," said Hermione, looking slightly flustered, and following Krum through the crowd and out of site.
"You'd better hurry up!" Ron called loudly after her. "The carriages'll be here in a minute!" He let Harry keep a watch for the carriages, however, and spent the next few minutes craning his neck over the crowd to try and see what Hermione and Krum might be up to. They returned quite soon. Ron stared at Hermione, but her face was impassive."
"Oh," said Ron, his smile fading slightly. "Are you that bad at kissing?"
"Dunno," said Harry who hadn't considered this, and immediately felt rather worried. "Maybe I am."
"Of course you're not," said Hermione absently, still scribbling away at her letter.
"How do you know?" said Ron in a sharp voice.
(Note: Ron seems pretty angry at the thought of Harry and Hermione kissing)


Now to the quotes of J.K. Rowling who clearly hints at the two of them
Q- Is it just me, or was something going on between Ron and Hermione during the last half of Goblet of Fire? I love your books, by the way, and two of them I've read straight through cover to cover in under 24 hours.
A- Well done on the reading speed! Yes, something's "going on," but Ron doesn't realize it yet. Typical boy.

Q-Does Hermione like Ron as more than a friend?
A-The answer to that is in Goblet of Fire!

Couric: “Any snogging with Hermione?”
Rowling: “Harry and Hermione! Do you think so?”
Couric: “No I’m kidding.
Rowling: "It's Ron and Hermione."


This quote is from Chris Columbus
*TLC*: Quick thing about the end of the movie. There's a very adorable scene where Hermione hugs Harry, but she doesn't hug Ron - what was behind that non-hug for you?
Chris Columbus: Did you read book four?
*TLC*: Yeah, I did. [You've no idea.]

Chris Columbus: So, it's a little bit of a taste of what's to happen, what's coming up.
TLC: So it is foreshadowing.
Chris Columbus: It is foreshadowing, yeah. I just love the idea that the two of them, that there's an impending crush. And it's such a real thing for kids at that age. For instance, I asked Emma to hug Dan, and she said, 'No way,' and that was the day she was the most nervous being on the set. She was like, 'I am not going to hug him, no I'm not.' And I said, 'You've been petrified, this is one of your best friends, if not your best friend, you have to hug him,' I said, 'but you won't hug Ron, because that's where the tension is.



Now lets look at Harry and Hermione
I'm only gonna put one thing up quoted by J.K. Rowling
"Harry and Hermione are very platonic friends. But I won't answer for anyone else, nudge, nudge, wink, wink."
(Platonic means "Pure, passionless; nonsexual; philosophical" .)
Surely Rowling is hinting at Ron and Hermione. It's SO Obvious!

Don't you think that most of the time J.K. steers clear of the OBVIOUS????

I admit I was hoping for just a little more of something between R/Hr in OOTP. I was a bit disappointed. They are a very good match. I believe I will not be disappointed in the future. ;D
However, I felt that JKR got the 15-year-old Harry "romance" just right. He had no role models for how to handle a relationship and his actions and reactions were right on target. I think he learned a little from the experience. I do believe that the H/C ship has sailed and will not return and that is not a bad thing. ;)
I was very proud of Ginny! Way to go girl! She moved on, grew up, found out what she liked to do, and blew her brothers away! There might be a chance for her & Harry, but I think (hope) she will find someone else. BTW - I would not have said that 3 weeks ago. :o
I think there could be something between Luna and Harry eventually. At the end of OOTP they were finding that they had some things in common and were beginning to understand each other. I think she could be a welcome calm in his world. Also, Harry may see a kindred spirit in her and come to respect her. She seems to be very smart. Also, I don't see Luna as governed by something as flaky as a crush if she can honestly see interest and kindness elsewhere. :eyebrows:
BTW - I loved the idea of Bill & Fleur - very sweet!
Also, I read in a post somewhere a suggestion for a Lupin/Tonks thing. It might work, just not sure about the age difference (I guess it can't be more than 15 years?).
Thanks for listening! :D

It's true that most of the evidence coming from JKR really does point to Ron and Hermione, not Harry and Hermione. That, along with the tension between Ron and Hermione, is why I think that there will probably be a relationship between the two of them.

When it comes to Harry Potter, you cannot look at the cover and think you have the idea. If you look below that, it does not tell you, you have to figure it out for yourself.

OMG 26 pages it took forever to get to the end! anyway

Rita_Skeeter you said just about everything I wanted to say everything says R/Hr all the points I see for h/hr don't hold up.

1. that she holds onto harry alot = thats a point against really. Like at the end of cos the movie you DON'T hold onto the one you like if your not admiting you like them

2. she was jealous of h/c. ppl point to that one point when they kissed. But I don't think she was. She asked about the kiss just because she likes to be in the know, she's a girl and wants to know gossip that's why she knew all about WhY cho was crying. But look at this part after Harry has the date with cho
"Oh, I forgot to ask you,' said Hermione brightly, glancing over the ravenclaw table, "what happened on your date with Cho...?" she said it brightly she wanted to know how it went and when he tells her how wrong it went she talkes to him sypathetically and tells him what he should have done. Does that sould like a girl who's so jealous she couldn't hid it when they just had a wet kiss?
AND at the end she tells harry "Harry you're worse than ron...well no, you're not" I think that implys ron and her are in a similar boat, rons to fumble to get it together. Remember we only know what happenes around harry but ron and hermione spent plenty of time together that we have no idea what does on.

and just a small thing I have been thinking since book one that shows hermione is obviosly into ron... When she met the "famous harry potter" on the train she noticed the little bit of dirt on rons nose. She must have been looking at him pretty hard and found him interesting enough to take he eyes of someone who was a living legend like "the famous harry potter" Would you notice the dirt on a lanky freckle faced 11yr old when he was sitting next to a famous person unless you fancied him.

Um "she must have been looking at him pretty hard" BULL:censored: It was a large black smudge. Molly could see it but couldn't clean it. Fred and George teased him about it. Harry noticed it as soon as Ron sat down but didn't mention it. Hermione tacking this little bit of information into her speed-talking introduction is just another symptom of her meticulous nature. Notice everything, remark on it if it needs to be fixed.

1. that she holds onto harry alot = thats a point against really. Like at the end of cos the movie you DON'T hold onto the one you like if your not admiting you like them


She has not had to admit it to anybody because no one has asked her (let alone the fact that we do not know if she does anyway), except Viktor Krum I suspect.


2. she was jealous of h/c. ppl point to that one point when they kissed. But I don't think she was. She asked about the kiss just because she likes to be in the know, she's a girl and wants to know gossip that's why she knew all about WhY cho was crying. But look at this part after Harry has the date with cho
"Oh, I forgot to ask you,' said Hermione brightly, glancing over the ravenclaw table, "what happened on your date with Cho...?" she said it brightly she wanted to know how it went and when he tells her how wrong it went she talkes to him sypathetically and tells him what he should have done. Does that sould like a girl who's so jealous she couldn't hid it when they just had a wet kiss?


Yes. Hermione did hide it well and she has her reasons for it. Harry did a good job of hiding his jealousy of Cho going with Cedric as well. He had his reasons. Just like Hermione said, "just because you have the emotional range of a teaspoon, doesn't mean we all have."

Just to bring up something that has been nagging me, why do people honestly think that Luna likes Harry more than Ron?

Oh, I'm not sure that we think that. It's just that whatever Ron had going for him looked like it snapped when he did his "She's LOONY Lovegegood HAHAHAHA" deal and Harry gets shaken out of his grief by pity for her and ends up trying to socialize with her. Furthermore, he wants to believe some of the saner wierd things she does and it looks like he might make an effort to seek her out next year while Ron is still mentally looking at Ginny openmouthed for an explanation of this total loon who keeps following them around.


Edit: Gossip--Did I read that right? GOSSIP? That's not really Hermione's style. In fact, she turns her nose up at the scandalmongers and ignores the rumor mill almost entirely. There could be a whole host of innocent, platonic reasons that she wanted to know about Cho, but keeping up on Gossip is definitely NOT one of them.

I don't think it's that Luna likes Harry more than Ron. Quite the opposite, judging by her crush. But the failure of Harry/Cho and Ginny's blossoming love life demonstrate that first crushes aren't likely to work out, particularly if the two people involved don't know each other very well. And Luna didn't really get to know Ron; she just admired him. Her relationship with Harry seemed more substantive.

I can understand that but still no one has approached Ron/Luna as often nor more seriously than Harry and Luna.

Because we tend to focus on the end of the book, and Ron/Luna seems to be a dead letter because Ron, nuts or not, was making fun of Luna in a crisis situation when she was risking her neck to save his hide. She was doing a good job of it and she still couldn't get any respect from him. And it seems highly significant that it's pity for Luna that starts to shake Harry out of his funk and that he now wants to believe some of what she does because it's comforting. Ron/Luna has basically replaced Ron/Eloise Midgeon as a "gee, wouldn't that be ironic and serve him right" connection whereas the Harry/Luna connection seems strange but viable.

That's Harry for ya. He has never really treated anyone differently because of how other people see them.

I think Harry and Luna connect because he can associate with her. Harry definitly knows what it's like to be made fun of or ostracized, Luna also lost her mother at a young age, something Harry can identify with.

I think it was interesting the JK wrote in another character that has a "crush" on Harry. Perhaps he's becoming quite the looker, which is probably just icing on the cake for most girls intrigued by his history and name.

I'm confused. Where does it say she has a crush on him. However, going by previous books, Harry must be a bit of a looker if he can have at least three girls really like him (who cares if one's a ghost).

ghost?

H/Hr all the way.

1. In the chapter 4, as soon as Harry opened the door to the bedroom, Hermione ran up and hugged and nearly knocked him to the ground. After that she unleashed fury of questions, but she didn't let Harry go until Ron tell her to let him breathe.

2. Hermione is very happy when she thought Harry was a prefect, and disappointed when it was actually Ron.

3. At Christmas, Hermione loved the present Harry gave her, and didn't seem to like Ron's. Harry knows Hermione better then Ron. Ron brought perfume, because he probably read in a book saying muggle woman like perfume. Harry brought her a book, this shows me that Harry pays attentions to details in Hermione's life.

3. Harry is starting to rub off on Hermione. Throught out the book, Harry was the only person to stand up to Umbrigde for what he believed in. Then, Hermione openly defied Umbrigde.

4. Harry was dreaming about Cho, then Cho morphed into Hermione.

5. Cho and Vitkor both believe Harry and Hermione like each other, because the always talk about each other.

6. When Dobby told Harry about the other elves feeling insulted about the clothes, Harry chose not to tell Hermione, because he knows SPEW is very impotant to her and telling her will crush her feelings. Ron probably would have told her as soon as they began to have another arguement.

7. Harry sticks up for Hermione when something very important to him is on the line, like quidditch. Ron only sticks up for Hermione when Malfoy and Kreacher calls her a mudblood, and Ron knows there will be minor conquences for his actions.

Sorry about that. I meant Myrtle.

I totally agree with you Mouthn of Merlin. Harry/Hermoine all the way!!!:D :clappy: :D :clappy: :p

Let me just throw my vote in here. Yeah, why the hey did Ron get her perfume? Did he even check the fragrance before he thumped down the cash?

lol @ jordmundt6. I guess Ron is not yet fully aware of how to read/express emotions.

Neither is Harry, but at least he isn't acting like a total blithering idiot. Ron was trying to express how he felt but he got her a very expensive (especially on his budget) useless gift. If he's going to go for that kind of romantic gift shouldn't he at least make sure that the fragrance is a agreeable?

You know how Ron gets nervous, maybe Ron was so nervous about getting Hermy the right gift that in the end amidst all his worrying he forgot to check the fragrance of the perfume.

:lol: Yeah that sounds like our Ronald alright.

I'm just going to copy and paste an argument I had before. It will seem like I'm adressing another board member in particular cause I am. Sorry if anything is repeated. Can't help it :)

Let me respond to everything you said. Remember people these our opinions. Different fans of different couples will always interpret the book differently.

Jk Rowling said their relationship was platonic after she finished PRISONER OF AZKABAN. Thst statement is true. They were all just friends back then. She never said they would always be only platonic friends, and if she meant that she would've said it. She never said that they couldn't develop more of a relationship.

What you feel is your opinion, not something against Harry and Hermione.

The whole objects thing doesn't matter. Who would Krum have if Harry got Hermione? Obviously Harry's close both so to complicate things less Krum gets Hermione and Harry gets Ron. Harry still tried to save everyone anyway.

Harry only had exactly what you said, a CRUSH. Ron had a crush on Fleur too. Harry didn't start REALLY appreciating Hermione till book five.

The infamous kiss proves nothing. Just moral support. Same for Hermione kissing Ron. None of those kisses meant anything besides that.

I don't know what H/Hr shippers you've seen, but the ones I know don't use Hermione pulling Harry back as evidence. The real ship moments were in book five. (Poster was refering to when Hermione got mad at Harry for gawking at the Veela and pulling him back)

He never said spending time with Hermione was boring, just not the same as hanging with his other best friend Ron. It's just not the same. Harry pointed that out perfectly. His opinion changed in book five anyway.

So what if Ron reacted to Hermione's kiss? We all know Ron likes Hermione, but that doesn't help anything. The love is one-sided. Hermione has shown zero romantic interest in Ron. Love can't be one-sided. Life would be bliss if you could be with anyone you liked.

Yeah, Harry compared them to Mr. and Mrs. Weasley. Then Ron said she was just like his mom. Sorry, I don't know about you, but most boys won't date someone who constantly reminds them of their mom. That argument is null.

Yes, there's tension. No not more, but there's tension. Tension doesn't have to come from both sides. Ron liking Hermione and being jealous=tension.

Everything you point out is Ron Ron Ron! We all know he likes her. That's not a mystery, but Hermione as of now obviously doesn't like him romanticly. Also Hermione wasn't mad at Ron for not being asked first, but mad at being a "last resort".

Harry and Hermione grow ALOT closer in book five. they were barely ever apart. Harry even sees her in his dreams and hears her voice in his head. I mean if Cho turns into Hermione...there must be some subconscious feelings Harry has.

Hermione obviously is attracted to Harry in some way. It's so **** obvious. She FROWNED when Harry said he kissed Cho. She was dissappointed when Harry didn't stay up with her to make elf-hats. How many times did Hermione cling to Harry for support when Ron was right there? ALOT.

Harry spent more time with Hermione than Ron in book five, and this time he didn't regret it. no, he begins to recognize her solidarity and loyalty even when he's blinded by rage.

There are so many moments I could point out, but I'll spare you for your sake and cause of the fact that this post is getting too **** long.

I could point out how Hermione was bouncing off the walls when she thought Harry was a prefect, and shocked then DISAPPOINTED when she found out it was Ron. Or how she called the gift of the boy she's suppose to "like" unusual (You just don't call a gift that someone you supposedly like unusual. If it is you tell a white lie. Hermione didn't) and was jumping for joy when she got Harry's gift. Not to mention how emotional she gets everytime Harry's gone for the summer and they meet up again. Or how whenever she's alone all she does it talk about Harry EVEN WITH KRUM.

Ah I could keep going on and on and on..but alas I shall stop here. Hope this changes some minds :) If it doesn't oh well. H/HR FOREVA

And there's my opinion. Love it leave it ;)

Well said Lord Aoshi!!!!!!

H/Hr FOREVER!!!!!!

Originally posted by jordmundt6 (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=416723#post416723))
I'm confused. Where does it say she has a crush on him. However, going by previous books, Harry must be a bit of a looker if he can have at least three girls really like him (who cares if one's a ghost).


Oh, I just assumed so because Luna seemed really taken by him and, well, I would think it would take a special someone, i.e. perhaps someone she's attracted to, to distract her from her little world. :) I just interpreted the way JK described how she responded to Harry to mean that she may have crushed on him.

Personally, I was a bit disappointed in the romances. I remeber JKR saying something about hormones flying in this book.. and well.. they weren't, really.