Book Five Romance -- was it all you were expecting?

snitch14.......BRAVO *claps**claps**claps*

That's a very good post... You should have mentioned all the things in book 2..i wouldn't have got annoyed...

You did a great Job....While the hints for Ron/Herm are really scarce and people can count them easily, the hints for Harry/hermione are uncountable..There are so many things...

hermownninny -- shucks! i'm flattered thanks ^_^

there really ARE too many hints about Hr/H :D hehe

Hello! I’m new here and think the quality of discussion is very high, as is the tone! I’ve finished a re-read of the book as well as all the discussion pages [so many insightful posts here]. Although I had no firm clue after GoF, as hints and red herrings abounded there, this is my take after OoP:

In OoP, the only 2 clear signs of affection from Hermione toward Ron IMO [aside from the inconclusive kiss as Harry received one too], were in one particular chapter when 1) she assists with the boys’ homework and then 2) shortly thereafter [following an exceptionally bad quidditch practice or game] where her expression “melted” toward him. It seems objectively to be outweighed by the sheer volume of her looks, words, and actions expressing attention and affection toward Harry from OoP’s start to end, but is just enough to keep the discussion going. It is possible that her look to Ron was motivated from either affection or sympathy, as more usually she is disgruntled with him, or, much more so in OoP than previously, just rather unconcerned. Because this chapter(s) concerns a difficult period for Ron [Percy, quidditch], however, sympathy is plausible. IMO a lack of concern is also a plausible reason why Hermione isn’t investing herself in Ron’s love life or trying to turn him from other girls, i.e., her attention is elsewhere. That is, regardless of whether she feels certain Ron likes her, if she returned the feelings then one would tend to expect her to be more involved in his affairs of this kind. The persons and things upon which Hermione bestows her attention are some of the biggest potential hints, albeit subtle ones, in the book as to Hermione’s position, particularly as she is circumspect and plays her cards close to the chest. IMO it seems significant that [we are told] she talks to Ron about Harry or else [we are shown] she frequently only speaks to Ron whilst arguing. With Harry, she is quick to ask, quick to notice his gaze, quick to tear up if he is angry. It seems to consistently cause her true pain whenever Harry’s emotional wellbeing is threatened, such as when he is upset, which doesn’t seem to occur with her toward Ron.

Just as subtle but significant, as FlyingPhoenix and others have mentioned, is that Harry consistently finds this behavior irritating in Cho but strangely has no criticism, not once, of Hermione’s emotion and holds her only in the highest regard. At one point in fact Harry is very upset when she doesn’t leap to outrage on his behalf – but this “failure” only happens once so he has no further cause for anger in that regard. Pride or something more? They are teenagers, but IMO Harry still seems overall more concerned with truth and justice than his pride. We see that after the earlier chapter re: Prefect selection, where he pretty quickly gets over himself to support Ron. It seems Harry’s come to depend on Hermione’s emotional support at a very deep level, deeper than he knows, at least as much as he’s come to depend on Ron’s support. Moreover, it seems Hermione is becoming a part of him, of his thoughts, of his aspirations and fears [felt he disappointed her re: Prefect, finally wants to succeed academically so he can face her, etc], in a way that Ron, his other best mate, is not, and what could that mean?

We can agree that the 3 main characters mutually respect each other, at least on some level, although Ron and Hermione may not always show it likely due to rather stark differences in background, personality, preferences, and maturity levels. Harry seems to increasingly respect Hermione over the last several books, who in turn has always respected him in some aspects. We see that in OoP Hermione is the one whom Harry implicitly trusts and esteems above all others, including his crush and even including Ron. By OoP, she is constantly in Harry’s thoughts, even if he hasn’t examined why. We aren’t privy to Ron’s thoughts but we know he seems to have at least a crush on Hermione since Ron, unlike either Harry or Hermione, doesn’t play his cards so close but instead tips his hand [perfume, stunned after kiss]. We don’t know if Ron in fact loves her [is his character mature enough at this point?], but we have been given circumstantial evidence that Harry may have begun to do so, and she, him. Nonetheless I disagree that discovering her feelings or his own will be ‘lame’ and ‘happy’ as in devoid of tension, obstacles, or problems for Harry. Ron himself is a great obstacle to be overcome even if his feelings for Hermione are in fact not as deep as Harry’s, because Ron’s pride is such a sore point. And there is always Harry’s thus-far justified fear of losing those he loves – until & unless he can continue find a way to continue to turn these perceived vulnerabilities into strengths & so realise his greatest desires.

Predominantly IMO Hermione’s possible turn in affection or love for Harry may be rooted in the fact that she sees in him and the man he’s becoming those things which are most central to who she is and cannot help but be “instinctively” drawn to him at a fundamental level because of who she is. This is an entirely different level than the superficial crush, such as Harry’s to Cho and perhaps Ron’s to Hermione. In part, this goes to how one reads the books, passing round on the surface of the text or re-reading to get at hidden subtext. Some will never prefer to analyze subtext. Also, some are adverse to changes and growth in plot and character, but over the course of one’s life, change is absolute – particularly whilst in school (and one only hopes it doesn’t stop there). Also there is the bizarre theme that since Harry is famously marked for death and has had a lot of [bad] press, but also has quidditch skills and money, anything else is a bit much. Seems unfair to deprive Harry of love he’s never had, per FlyingPhoenix et al, who so astutely pointed out that Harry’s deepest desire is love, not glory or status. Interestingly Ron has already begun to receive much of the recognition and status he most deeply desired from the start, so JKR has been very generous toward his character and perhaps this is a further hint that he is not the one who truly loves Hermione.

To wit re: embodiment of Hermione’s deepest desires: Harry not only fights for justice and against discrimination, but he’s also willing to die both for his ideals or to save those he loves. A humanitarian love for those around him is not separate from his ideals but core to them. They’re all bound up in the same heart. Harry’s humanitarianism has always been, as Dumbledore says, his greatest strength, though Harry doesn’t realize it yet. In part his greatest strength on its own merit and in part because DD knows that people will follow Harry out of love, friendship, and mutual respect, while Voldemort can only motivate through fear. Harry is all too human but nonetheless never turns a blind eye and even extends his compassion to Snape, his Aunt Petunia, and Dudley, all of whom have abused him variously. Hermione sees that Harry has, like the phoenix, has emerged from the ashes and trials of childhood abuse and neglect with depth of character, compassion, and a generous and noble heart. In other words, even aside from Voldemort, Harry has been tested by life and not found wanting in spirit. Hermione, who is keenly aware of discrimination, injustice, and its effects on the victims, knows that Harry has lived it and nonetheless has remained compassionate and true to his highest values [which VM only tries to exploit]. Even his anger was largely frustration at not being able to do more or not being a part of it. The only thing that remained was for Harry to 1) see past his own crush [done or doing], 2) to see many of those same qualities in Hermione -- In part because she had to have confidence in them in herself first [also done or doing] – and 3) to see Hermione as Viktor did, as a person worthy of deeper “nonplatonic” feeling. I think it is significant that Viktor, who is older and more mature, saw Harry as a competitor for Hermione, because it potentially implies he saw something in both Harry and Hermione for the other, perhaps long before Harry had recognised it.

I didnt like the idea of Harry/Cho and I still dont but it was bound to happen. It obviously didnt work out which is a shame for Harry. Although I dont think he ever really liked her. Not in that way. I mean he thought she was attractive but I dont think he knew her well enough to fall for her. And after all of that it dosent seem like she has a worthy personality. She cries if she dosent get what she wants. Who wants to be with someone like that?

I like the idea of Harry/Hermione and it is obvious that there is something between them. The problem is will Harry ever admit to it. And is it strong enough to have a successful relationship?
But ultimately Hermione would be good for Harry. She would calm him down and relax him. Assure him that he's not alone. He's going through a very hard time and Hermione could help soothe him. But then there's the jealeousy thing. Whichever way you look at it Ron would be jealous. Whether you think that Ron has a crush on Hermione or not. If he does have a crush on her, which I think he does, then he would be jealous of Harry and probably start a fight. If he dosent then he might be jealous of the time they spend together. Even though they are all best friends Harry and Hermione are bound to want time for themselves. Ron might think that they dont want to spend time with him and feel left out. If the Harry/Hermione relationship happens then there will be animosity between the group.

With the Hermione/Ron situation I think that it's very likely that Ron has a crush on her. But I doubt that she feels the same way. They argue all the time and often go through stages of not talking to each other. It seems more of a brother/sister relationship if nothing else. And if Ron did bulk up the courage to ask her out she would shoot him down.

Being a Malfoy fan(not Lucius anymore though) I couldnt help but like the idea of Draco/Hermione. Even I admit it is very unlikely but still not impossible. Although they have been enemies since they met there is the obvious love/hate thing. Lily and James were sort of enemies and they fell in love. In the Chamber of secrets when Draco called her a mudblood she got very upset. Maybe its just me but if someone I absolutely despised called me a bad name I would'nt care. I would just ignore them or bite back.
But if someone I cared about called me a bad name I would probably be crushed. Also in the second movie they shared many looks not all of which were mean. Plus "- and you must be... Hermione Granger. Yes Draco's told me all about you." I think that Draco does have feelings for her but they are very deep and he may not be aware of them. He obviously talks about her a lot and he shows signs of the grade-school approach to feelings. Like when a boys way of showing his feelings is by pushing the girl or pulling her hair. I think that Draco himself is not as bad as that but when you have parents like his its hard not to turn out that way. I have been thinking about a scenario that (although unlikely) could happen. Harry and Hermione could go out and be happy together and Hermione would really care for him. Ron would be jealous at first but eventually get used to it. Then maybe Cho would approach Harry and tell him that she still likes him. They would kiss and get together. Later that day Harry would tell Hermione that he wants to be with Cho instead. Hermione would be heartbroken and leave the "trio". Due to Hermione's displeasure at Harry and Ron she would therefor have something in commen with Draco. They would talk and start to develop feelings for each other. You can pretty much guess the rest. Very unlikely? Yes. Just an idea of mine.

The romance was wonderfully written. i was expecting that Harry and Cho would go out even though deep inside i didn't want it to happen and the kiss was.....well...a surprise to me. i'm glad harry got his first kiss from the girl that he likes tho. i sure hope he would like someone else in the 6th book

Ron and Hermione .....well....i think they're just denying their feelings for each other. i mean.....the whole fuss about Viktor Krum is enough to tell that Ron is Jealous. i would love to see them get together. wut a cute couple

Ginny....umm......it was a bit too much. i mean 2 guys??? wut was she thinking. was she that desperate to have a guy in her life?? but good for her, i guess....wut a little playa

I finished reading book five for the second time today and noticed somethings which i didn't before, and most of the stuff thats been mentioned here, but i also seem to think that alot of you (no effence to anyone so please don't shout at me) are seeing things that arn't really there. i know we're supposed to read between the lines and notice hidden messeges and stuff, but i still can't see love between the three of them.
Although i would love Harry and Hermy to get together, the evedence doesn't look too promising.
So ok they go on mini adventures together, Hermy grabs Harrys arm cause she's scared, well i can see that happening, i mean the stuff Harry's been through i suppose you could uncontiously(sp) feel safer around him. In the department of mysteries she grabs his arm again, well i think seeing as we see everything in Harry's point of view how are we to know that she did not grab Ron's arm too, i mean the place is dark, she could be holding onto both her boys for safety, you don't know and i don't think Harry was to interested to find out at the time.
Oh yes and the thoughts Harry has of Hermione when he's sleeping well in his dreams she's always a voice of reason a conscience(sp) this hardly proves that he has romantic feelings for her. he spends his entire days with her, its not unusal to see somebody in a dream after you see them during the day. i can't really get into this whole meaning of dreams sydrome, if involves to many long words and im tired.

Anyway, im making myself upset saying all this, im totaly going against everything i believe and i would so love to believe in Harry and Hermy, but at the moment there just doesn't seem to be anything to...well... like i said before...theres nothing that proves these two see each other as anything more than friends, very close friends yes, but just friends.

Now to totaly contridict myself
However i can't see it being likely that three teenagers, two male, one female can spend the whole of their days and i mean their entire days not just a few hours each day, together and not strike up certain hormonal feelings. i mean its human nature to feel for the oppiosite sex (well obviously not all the time as the case may sometimes be) but when you are at the most differcult of times i.e the adolescence stages, then such feelings can go haywire, you can start looking at your friends differently, your teachers differently, your neighbours differently, it depends on who you know. anyway im not here to give you lessons on the kind of education you should have recieved a long time ago (ahem) cause that would just be stupid, im just saying that JK, who hereself was a secondary school teacher and probably witnessed such 'things' will probably know how to handle the 'love' issues in her books. which just goes to show that you don't actaully need evedence from previous books cause it could just happen, with out warning, so if that is the case then everything iv said about no evedence between Harry and Hermy should be ignored. cause who knows.
thanks for reading (if you did) my constantly blabbing. i will stop now. bye
:wacky: <---Me

hello I think that JK was WAY too censored: when it came to Harry's first kiss. I was expecting WAY more romance, I mean really, there are only two books left and Ron and Hermione have not gotten together yet!

I think that Harry should get with Luna Lovegood because she believed him about Voldemort reappearing, she got him the article in her dad's magazine, and she can see the thestrals too! This argument may not be too convincing but its obvious that she's got the hots for Harry.

JK NEEDS TO GIVE US SOME BETTER DETAILS WHEN IT COMES TO THE KISSING AND RELATIONSHIPS!!!!:

I don't think JKR should give us anymore info. This sort of thing was very tastefully done. It's not porn. She was not going to describe every little thing, and I don't think it would be right. This is their private love lives, we don't need to know every detail! JKR did a really lovely job of giving us enough info to know what went on and to satisfy their horomones without turning into some disgusting sex story, you know? And plus, these are children's storys...some of it has to be censored and innocent!

lol you say private like their real people who will be insulted if we pry into their love lives.

I liked the fact that Harry came out looking a bit like a dork. He can't be good at everything can he?

Yeah whaddup with Ginny...she was getting around...

heh, no...but i certainly hope that he improves in this dept. i think we're all looking to see harry falling in love with SOMEBODY by book 7! Come on JK, give harry break here lol! he needs to talk to lupin or somebody about how to treat a girl!

Wow- this is a HUGE thread. I read many, but not all so I hope I am not repeating while adding my opinion.

I don't dislike Cho, but Harry has enough problems, he needs someone who is less high maitainance and over emotional. Not that she doesn't have reasons, but it is manipulative, misleading, and she is fluffy (so far), no real assets or talents.

In the beginning of the battle with the DE, Harry gives the go to smash the shelves, and he helps Hermione. Something along the lines of grabbing her robes and putting up his arm to protect them from the shatteirng glass. This is possible foreshadowing- Ron didn't help Hermione, and Harry didn't help Ginny or Luna, but Hermione.

I don't think that Harry will end up with a new character, especially since we saw the pensieve scene with Lily and James at age 15. It seems that in the wizard world people meet early so that really leaves Cho, Ginny, Hermione, Luna, either Patil, and Lavender. Oh and maybe Fleur. Everyone else is too vague a character.

I am a Harry and Ginny supporter.

I don't think the readers saw Harry's first kiss like one normally would in a Sweet Valley High book because it wasn't all that meaningful or pinacle.

Like Hermione said, "Did she corner you?"

I highly believe any more description besides the word "Wet." would have had many people making spewing.

Originally posted by Siriusly (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?postid=440027#post440027))
In the beginning of the battle with the DE, Harry gives the go to smash the shelves, and he helps Hermione. Something along the lines of grabbing her robes and putting up his arm to protect them from the shatteirng glass. This is possible foreshadowing- Ron didn't help Hermione, and Harry didn't help Ginny or Luna, but Hermione.


Yes, Harry helps Hermione--because she is the person next to him. He didn't seek her out. If he did, this would have more significance. :)

I love snitch14's compliation of Hr/H moments.

I would love for the Hr/H ship to sail into a vibrant horizon. :)

I really, really hope they don't turn out to be related. Which I am sure they won't
but someone on here has me thinking of Star Wars way too much! *Yeesh!*

I can't explain my feelings about Harry and Cho's kiss.
I thought that it was very very well-writing. I felt that it was the right moment for Harry's first kiss. After that their romance went a little bit wrong...i thought that it was a shame, but it's also exiting to see hwo harry is going to fancy in the next books...i think maybe Parvati Patil...ok...he wasn't very nice to her at the Yule ball, but he thought that she was pretty. In the last of OoP when their taking the OWLs Parvati is mentioned a lot, and read this, from when the class is taking their OWL's:

He was sitting right behind Parvati Patil, whose long dark hair fell below the back of her chair. Once or twice he found himself staring at the tiny golden lights that glistened in it when she moved her head slightly, and had to give his own head a little shake to clar it.

I think this is interresting...Harry is staring at Parvati... but i don't know if that he will have an actually crush on her..

I don't think that Harry and Ginny are likely to pair up... i think that Ginny will go on with her own guys.

Ron and Hermione is something where i REALLY don't know what to belive at all!!! :D

In opposition to a good amount of arguements on this thread, that the Ron and Hermione thing died a bit from book 4 to 5, I don't think that anything has fizzled out, it just wasn't as apparent. R and Her were still always arguing with each other, it's just Harry always seemed to stop them at the beginning by telling them to shut up. I have always thought that Ron and Hermione will end up together, but I think that Luna was brought in to add a twist to their 'relationship' or lack therof. My prediction is that in book 6 something will happen between Ron and Luna to make Hermione jealous and make her see that she really does want Ron. I mean, JKR did the same type thing with Viktor in book 4. And Ron was still apparently jealous of him in OotP, but it seemed to have some time to sink in.

I really don't know whats going to happen with Harry. I can't help think that he will be having some other kind of romance in one of the next books, but the problem is with whom? THe Cho ship has sailed, and the only other girl I can possibly see him with would be Ginny, unless JKR decides to bring in another character, or develop a character we already know about for Harry. But I really cant see that happening.

yep...there were no surprises i thought harry was going to go out with cho and he did...but i didnt know cho is soo dramatic!

Wow, evaluna. :wow: That was fantastic (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?postid=438678#post438678). Very well thought out, I'm impressed. I would almost be convinced of H/Hr, you did a very good job. I especially loved what you say about Harry here...

To wit re: embodiment of Hermione's deepest desires: Harry not only fights for justice and against discrimination, but he's also willing to die both for his ideals or to save those he loves. A humanitarian love for those around him is not separate from his ideals but core to them. They're all bound up in the same heart. Harry's humanitarianism has always been, as Dumbledore says, his greatest strength, though Harry doesn't realize it yet. In part his greatest strength on its own merit and in part because DD knows that people will follow Harry out of love, friendship, and mutual respect, while Voldemort can only motivate through fear. Harry is all too human but nonetheless never turns a blind eye and even extends his compassion to Snape, his Aunt Petunia, and Dudley, all of whom have abused him variously. Hermione sees that Harry has, like the phoenix, has emerged from the ashes and trials of childhood abuse and neglect with depth of character, compassion, and a generous and noble heart. In other words, even aside from Voldemort, Harry has been tested by life and not found wanting in spirit. Hermione, who is keenly aware of discrimination, injustice, and its effects on the victims, knows that Harry has lived it and nonetheless has remained compassionate and true to his highest values [which VM only tries to exploit]. Even his anger was largely frustration at not being able to do more or not being a part of it. The only thing that remained was for Harry to 1) see past his own crush [done or doing], 2) to see many of those same qualities in Hermione -- In part because she had to have confidence in them in herself first [also done or doing], and 3) to see Hermione as Viktor did, as a person worthy of deeper "nonplatonic" feeling. I think it is significant that Viktor, who is older and more mature, saw Harry as a competitor for Hermione, because it potentially implies he saw something in both Harry and Hermione for the other, perhaps long before Harry had recognised it.
I wholeheartedly agree with your analysis of Harry's character, what Dumbledore sees in him, his contrast with Voldemort, etc. Wish I could have said it. :p ;D

I guess if I believed there was such a deep subtext, I could believe that Harry and Hermione are heading towards each other. But I guess I just don't see why JKR would leave obvious hints about Ron, but only subtextual hints about H/Hr. Why would she create this contradiction? When writing love stories, you have to be careful about what you lead people to believe. If you have two levels of relationships that go against each other, there will be people who believe in one and people who believe in the other, as has happened here. If R/Hr happen, the H/Hr shippers will feel that the subtextual/circumstancial evidence JKR has built was misleading, and they will feel the R/Hr relationship to be out of character. And vice versa for H/Hr happening. I know she is not writing solely what the readers want to hear, but she is trying to write a good, skillfully written story. I hate to say it, but if she has written these two relationships as contradictory without weaving them together, that's bad writing.

BUT I don't think she is a bad writer and would make such a mistake. Which is why I believe that one ship is right and the other wrong. So how does one choose which ship to follow? You have either R/Hr's hard evidence, or H/Hr's subtext. I do not think that JKR would have put in such obvious hints about R/Hr if H/Hr was going to be the outcome. The clues for H/Hr are circumstancial and ambiguous. I think that, this being a children's book, she would not mislead her youngest readers by burying her hints so deep into the subtext that only the most analytical reader could find it. That's why I think R/Hr is what she is heading for. Like JK said, "The answer to that is in Goblet of Fire." What romantic relationship was most addressed in GoF? R/Hr.

:sigh: I hope I've explained the love-storytelling thing OK, because reading it over, it doesn't seem very comprehensible. Hopefully you get what I mean.

Anyway...

Originally posted by Buckbeak (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?postid=438760#post438760))
However i can't see it being likely that three teenagers, two male, one female can spend the whole of their days and i mean their entire days not just a few hours each day, together and not strike up certain hormonal feelings. i mean its human nature to feel for the oppiosite sex (well obviously not all the time as the case may sometimes be) but when you are at the most differcult of times i.e the adolescence stages, then such feelings can go haywire, you can start looking at your friends differently, your teachers differently, your neighbours differently, it depends on who you know.
I agree. :)

which just goes to show that you don't actaully need evedence from previous books cause it could just happen, with out warning, so if that is the case then everything iv said about no evedence between Harry and Hermy should be ignored.
Unfortunately, it has not been the style of JKR's writing to have things happen completely out of nowhere. She always leaves clues throughout her writing to what will happen in the future, both with the main plot and with future relationships. Things may happen like that sometimes in real life, but like I tried to explain above, that would be sloppy writing that would confuse readers. A good story always has a solid foundation.

Originally posted by gingerskat (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?postid=441428#post441428))
it's also exiting to see hwo harry is going to fancy in the next books...i think maybe Parvati Patil...ok...he wasn't very nice to her at the Yule ball, but he thought that she was pretty. In the last of OoP when their taking the OWLs Parvati is mentioned a lot, and read this, from when the class is taking their OWL's:

He was sitting right behind Parvati Patil, whose long dark hair fell below the back of her chair. Once or twice he found himself staring at the tiny golden lights that glistened in it when she moved her head slightly, and had to give his own head a little shake to clar it.

I think this is interresting...Harry is staring at Parvati... but i don't know if that he will have an actually crush on her..
Ooh, I forgot about that part! When I read it I just took it as Harry daydreaming a bit, but I could also see it as a set up...

I'm not sure about it though, I mean Parvati's character development throughout the books has been miniscule, so JKR would have a lot of developing to do. And so far she's come off as pretty shallow...

Still, it's interesting :yup:

P.S. Fixed the double posts. Sorry :sorry:

Mel: Please don´t doublepost you have this little edit button there you can use it and every mod will be happy again.

Anyway, who said that R/Hr is clearly there and H/Hr not? If we do count than isn´t there really R/Hr scenes only suspicious H/Hr scene if you ask me?!

But if you mean between R/Hr is more tension. Than I ask what is tension? Tension is electrisity something like Fire and Ice or better a flask right through the sky. Two pole which are different to each other and after that is between R/Hr no tension. They react exact the same Ron is yelling and Hermione is yelling. Lets look at H/Hr shall we? What do we see if they argue in OotP? Harry is yelling and Hermione is calm. Exactly oposite to each other and that is tension. Hope did say it better: He said that the world stands still if they argue but this isn´t by R/Hr so.

He knows too much anout that drifty shallow cow to ever pursue her. He can't abide her or Lavender or her twin. And he's already gotten burned by focusing on looks (Cho).

Edit: Mel, don't put two separate posts back to back. The edit tag allows you to revisit old posts and expand them. If you post something, but then have something else to add and no one's responded to you, hit the edit tag on your post and put the new text in the text box that appears. Then hit "Save Changes."

I didnt enjoy the sub story of Harry and Cho becasue i thought it was way 2 corny. Honestly, kissing under the missletoe, i felt like i was in a soap opra. ALso, the girl is way 2 emotional, no body is like that even after loosing someone close to them.

Uh, have to disagree strongly there. But the plot did drag and Cho made herself thoroughly unsympathetic, even with Hermione running interference for her.

Okay I'm giving an early warning. This will get REALLY long. What can I say this is my first post about romance since the books came out. I have ALOT to say.:D

Okay was the romance in the book all I was expecting? Well honestly, no. Considering the hormone-fueled, boy-girl interactions there was in GOF, I thought she might have played on it some more. However this book; with the exception of the H/C thing; reverted to the manner in which they were pre-GOF. In other words there were subtle hints and moments of possible pairings but nothing too concrete. However I can't say I minded. Considering the dark tone and themes of the book, I found that what was there was enough. GOF in my view seemed to have been a little too concentrated on the theme of boy-girl interactions which in my view took away from the main plot and only served to stir and incite those viscious shipping wars online. After reading OOTP I'm more convinced of JK loving to spin her readers in circles (and I love her for it). After three years of debates, online fights, reading between EVERY line, etc. she left us a book that had more questions than answers. Also after reading the book, I really do believe Jk's serious about reading those forums. There were MANY times where it felt like she was outrightly commenting on an idea or issue that had been raised in these forums. More on that in a minute. Now onto the different ships;

R/Hr- Ahh Ron and Hermione. The match made in literary heaven according to millions of fans of the books. This pair had their one or two moments (most of which were really comments made by other characters) but for the most part they remained as they left off in GOF. Ron likes Hermione but Lord knows if she returns those feelings I must be the blindest person alive; cause I have YET to see it. About the few moments; let's see. Harry on more than one occassion refers to Ron and Hermione as resembling Mr and Mrs Weasley. I'm sure fans of the pair loved that and by all means go on and squeal as much as you want. However, my problem with this comparison, was the way Mr and Mrs Weasley's relationship was presented in the book. Mr. Weasley came off as a man who has grown weary of disagreeing with his much louder, domineering wife so he just agrees with her because it's too much trouble and effort to stand up to her. Witness his reaction to her asking his opinion when Sirus wanted to tell Harry what was going on. In that respect, Ron and Hermione were a little like Mr and Mrs Weasley. I'm sorry but there were many times where Ron came off in this book as just THERE. The thing many persons seemed to think was the core of R/Hr (the arguments of course) was pretty much gone. Yes they had a few little pointless spats at the start of the books but they came off as forced and tired and to be perfectly honest; when Harry told them to shut up I was in whole-hearted agreement. In terms of that pair, OOTP left me with the feeling that Hermione would dominate Ron if they were ever to have a relationship and if one looks closely, you'll notice that in many ways Harry dominates him in their friendship. One of the main reasons I say this (about Hermione dominating Ron) is the way she talks to him. I love Hermione and that is my girl and I HATE when persons try to make her out to be this cold, unfeeling person as some do on this board. However, even I can say that there were times when Hermione spoke to Ron and I would literally wince. One striking example for me is when Harry's discussing his Occulumency class and describes feeling worse after it. Ron suggest Snape may be using the class to manipulate Harry and Hermione's reaction is rather harsh. JK describes the scene with her saying "shut up" angrily. Now I agree that Ron has been calling Snape a villain in EVERY book but still that was pretty harsh. Now what I have noticed is that Hermione NEVER speaks to Harry like that. She'll disagree with him, she'll stand up to him but she will NOT speak to him like that and this is nothing to do with romance but plain, old simple respect. Hermione DOES NOT respect Ron like she respects Harry and I'm sorry but that is important to a relationship. Don't tell me they're kids, so that makes it okay. These kids are 15 not 5 so that does not fly with me. Now their biggest moment of course being the kiss on the cheek. Ah yes Double Standards again. So NOW it's romantic huh? I guess persons will argue that Ron hadn't been through a stressful situation like Harry so it wasn't neccessary and thus that makes it romantic. That's not really true because while Ron's problems may not have been as intense as Harry's it was pretty big to him at the time. The boy was terrified of going out on that pitch and something needed to be done to calm him down or at least distract him. Ron's reaction was intense but really people are we still debating Ron liking Hermione? I think not. There was an interesting end to the moment however. While Hermione kissing Harry was purely an isolated Harry and Hermione moment; JK chose to end this moment with Ron and Hermione with Hermione turning to Harry and then leaving a rather unfinished sentence. Clever and cruel that woman is.:evil:

H/G- Ginny got a personality folks (let's all cheer:clappy: ) and what do you know; this little ship actually has some solid water to float on now. I say "now" because I'm sorry, no matter how much so-called romantic imagery and foreshadowing H/G shippers said there was, I refused to acknowledge this pairing unless there was some REAL interactions between the two. That said, as happy as I was that the girl had some significant purpose in this book, she still was not THAT interesting to me. Yes, yes I could see Ginny fans fuming right now.:) I'm sorry but this is just my view and Ginny simply came off as nothing more than a typical 14yr old. There really was little amazing or special about the character and at times she simply seemed like a diluted version of the twins though not nearly as entertaining or engaging. It's nothing against the character and I applaud JK for making the effort to make her worthwhile but honestly; Luna stole the girl's spotlight for me. I LOVE, LOVE this girl, but more on that later. Also, while it was great to see Ginny being a personality in her own right and as Harry put it "talking now", I still felt little to no chemistry between the two. The scene in the library was warm and cute but that was about it. That said, as I stated before; at least the ship now has solid possibility. Harry obviously and naturally feels more comfortable around her, since she is "over" him and they'll be teammates next year so that should be interesting. Now I put over in quotation marks because I don't believe Ginny is over her feelings for Harry. I think as Hermione said she "gave up" on him; meaning she simply accepted that she will never have him and decided to move on with her life. The two are separate things.

H/C- This was utterly disappointing in my view. Yes I DIDNOT expect this to last but JK's treatment of this relationship(if one can call it that) was just silly. I agree that the relationship is dead now. Personally I always felt Cho represented that girl who you have the first crush on and first kiss but not some great, emotionally connected relationship.Yes I didnot expect Cho to be perfect because we always saw her through Harry's eyes and the boy was biased because he liked her. However the whole thing seemed rushed and completely lacklustre. One got the impression that JK figured she needed to deal with the Cho thing so she made this quick "relationship" to get it out of the way. We never knew Cho but the girl always seemed quite nice and normal. This girl was lacklustre, whiny, annoying and basically in OOTP Jk made the girl have almost no good moment. I just thought it was unneccesarily sad and badly written.

N/G- I like this pair. My heart broke for Neville when the kids saw him at the hospital with his parents. Some help was given to the pair with Ginny's immediate and vehement defense of Neville when he called himself nobody. He's slowly coming into his own and the two seem to be really good friends; so good for them if it happens. That's as much as I can say for this pair because being that this is Harry's story we're not as privy to their lives as other pairings. However once again I like the pair.

R/L- Can I just say again how much I LOVE this girl? That JK could create a new character this late in the series and make her such an interesting one that was able to hold her own; is definite proof of the woman's talent. Well Luna obviously seems to be interested in Ron (man Ron can't seem to get away from the Ravenclaw girls, can he?) but we know it's definitely not returned. However I like this pair. Luna is weird enough to keep Ron entertained and certainly never bored. Plus she won't dominate him. A huge problem though is that Ron seems very concerned about what others think and let's face it; Luna is a bit of joke in the school and dating her really wouldn't be big for Ron's "image". However it would certainly be interesting to see.

H/L- Like I said I love her and never thought I would be okay with Harry being with anyone but Hermione but this wouldn't bug me much. The scene at the end when Luna is putting up the notice for her things is one of the saddest and most heart-breaking things in the book for me. However just because Harry felt better after speaking to her doesn't mean much to the possibility of them being together. Luna supplied something that Harry needed at THAT moment and that's all. While again I wouldn't be as bothered by the pair, there's a significant problem in that Harry does not like Luna and she feels the same. However I don't care who she ends up with as long as I see more of her in the next book.

H/Hr- Oh dear. Quite the little complicated pair. Harry and Hermione remained as platonic as ever but as usual had enough little moments/comments to leave you going "I wonder". Most of those little things coming courtesy of dear old Hermione.
(a) Prefect scene- Man oh man, can you say putting your foot in your mouth? I'm sorry but where did ANYONE see R/Hr in that moment? The girl came busting in and took one look at Harry with the badge and burst into how she knew it. Someone was obviously expecting this alot. Then she compounds the moment by asking Harry if he was sure when he says its Ron's badge; naturally causing Ron to be defensive. Then Jk further expounds the moment by leaving Harry and Hermione alone in the room and highlighting it. Harry can't look at Hermione and you get a sense that he is bothered by somehow failing in her eyes. Hermione's sad but doesn't know what best to say. In terms of writing that was a really beautiful and tender scene.

(b)Hermione's reaction to H/C's relationship- She certainly seemed the supportive friend and really why shouldn't she? If Hermione had gotten angry and all catty with Cho all of sudden; she might as well as painted a sign on her face saying "I like Harry". The best thing was to be the good friend, which she was. The suspicious moment with Hermione however, came courtesy the immediate scene after the kiss between Harry and Cho. Hermione's reaction was rather interesting to say the least. It didn't tally with the supportive friend she was for the rest of the relationship. The first thing was how abruptly she asked fi Cho had cornered him and that in itself was interesting. Cornered? She made the girl sound rather calculating. Then her tone goes brisk, businesslike and vague. Hermione seemed to be impatient with the way she said "Did you kiss" like get on with it already. However once she gets immersed in her letter and time goes by(maybe she calms down, that's speculation) she goes into understanding mode. I don't believe Hermione tried to ruin Harry's date. I believe Hermione figured Harry liked Cho and needed to decide for himself whether she was right for him or not. Another interesting moment in terms of the H/C relationship is when she asks Harry about him and Cho after the secret meeting in Hogsmeade. Harry asks why and she answers slightly smiling, staring directly at him that Cho couldn't keep her eyes off him. How would she be so aware of this. It seems that Hermione was watching Cho watch Harry and why would she care SO much? Yes she cares for him and wants him to be happy but really, is so much interest really necessary?

(c)Simple, subtle things continued. Her reactions to him in dangerous situations. Again in the MOM when nervous, she grabbed him, even with Ron her supposed crush being there. Her surprising disappointment in his not wanting to help her with her hats(although why she even asked is beyond me.) Her reaction to their presents. Why Jk felt the need (when she has never done it) to make a distinct point in Hermione's different reactions to the boys gifts is beyond me. All I can say is it was not flattering to Ron. Harry's visions in Occulumency is interesting. I would have expected Harry to see Ginny and the chamber(just for how dramatic it was) and at least one thing about Ron. I was surprised and rather confused by the memory of Hermione as a cat and all the way back in second year; of all things. Then there was Cho's envy and fear of Hermione which as much as I love the pair was rather silly. Harry barely said two words about Hermione and the girl was freaking out. What was interesting though is that JK felt the need to work this angle AGAIN. Let's face it; she already did this with Krum and now here's Cho now bothered by Hermione as Krum was bothered by Harry. Why, why if these two are so platonic, so not a possibility are these people threatned by them? Interesting.

Obviously Harry does not like Hermione but something interesting developed in this book. Harry all of a sudden has a thing about being a failure in Hermione's eyes. We saw it after the prefect scene when he couldn't meet her eyes and after he gets the D in Potions and they're discussing grades; when the twins mention T, his first thought is how hard it would be to hide from Hermione if he got all T's and so he'd better start working harder. When has Harry ever worried so much about Hermione's opinions of him in terms of grades and school? Of course he won't wonder why he cares so much; cause let's face it Harry is too pre-occupied with other issues to analyse his love life. He'll just see it as I don't want her to know I failed and leave it at that.

Okay I'm done. Sorry again for the length. Trust me I actually had more to say but I'll end here for now.

:welcome: back, Lleyki!

Bravo, great post! Well, there seems to be two threads on the Romance issue, and since it's just too much to try to keep up with both, I've decided to just stick to the other Love Thread in the Predictions and Theories forum. Good to see you back. :D

Nice one Lleyki :clappy: Most of the hard core are over at the book six love thread.

lleyki:clappy:

Well enough said, except I agree that its hard to keep up with both threads.

cheers!

:clappy: Nice post and welcome back lleyki! Good to see you again! We're all over at the book 6 love thread in the predictions forum if you're interested :D

lleyki, I read your whole post. :D

Originally posted by lleyki (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?postid=442561#post442561))
Hermione DOES NOT respect Ron like she respects Harry and I'm sorry but that is important to a relationship. Don't tell me they're kids, so that makes it okay. These kids are 15 not 5 so that does not fly with me.
You bring up a really good point that I never considered before. I think you're right, Hermione doesn't respect Ron as much as/in the same way that she respects Harry. This could be a problem. However, you can use the Mr./Mrs. Weasley comparison to explain it away... I can see a less mature Mrs. W talking like that to Mr. W, and their relationship works for them. Also, Lily and James fought about many things before they hooked up. But I agree with you that respect is a very important part of real life relationships... it just seems that in many of relationships in Harry Potter, the mutual respect is not as apparant. Actually, I'm not sure what to think about this issue. :shrug:

Also, while it was great to see Ginny being a personality in her own right and as Harry put it "talking now", I still felt little to no chemistry between the two.
Gotta disagree with you there. I didn't like Ginny until OotP. She's done a complete 180 and is a much more confident girl, and I think the surprise of it is part of why I like her now, and why I believe in a H/G ship. I think there was lots of chemistry between them, the most prominent scene in my mind being when she reminds Harry that she was once possessed by Voldie too. The way she just took control... very cool. :tu:

Hermione's reaction to H/C's relationship- She certainly seemed the supportive friend and really why shouldn't she? If Hermione had gotten angry and all catty with Cho all of sudden; she might as well as painted a sign on her face saying "I like Harry". The best thing was to be the good friend, which she was. [...] I don't believe Hermione tried to ruin Harry's date. I believe Hermione figured Harry liked Cho and needed to decide for himself whether she was right for him or not.
I'm sorry, but I don't think Hermione is that mature. She's a 15-year-old with raging hormones, just like Harry, Ron, and everyone else her age. She may be clever and insightful, but that is separate from maturity. I think many people give Hermione a bit too much credit in that department.


Another interesting moment in terms of the H/C relationship is when she asks Harry about him and Cho after the secret meeting in Hogsmeade. Harry asks why and she answers slightly smiling, staring directly at him that Cho couldn't keep her eyes off him. How would she be so aware of this. It seems that Hermione was watching Cho watch Harry and why would she care SO much? Yes she cares for him and wants him to be happy but really, is so much interest really necessary?
All it takes to notice that Cho is watching Harry is a glance from time to time. We all know that Hermione is quite observant, I don't think she would have to stare at Cho throughout the entire meeting in order to figure out who she was watching.

There's other stuff I could address but I've already talked about it in other posts...

:smile:

Mel you have several good points.
There might be many reasons for Hermione to be intrested in Cho and Harry's relationship.
Maybe she is just an intelligent, observant girl who cares about Harry as a friend.

But I also think that she might be a little afraid of something going on between Cho and Harry, and that might be the reason why she seems to be extremly intrested in where Cho was looking at the D.A. meeting. She is just simply afraid of losing Harry, who is her best friend, since she and Ron don't always agree, Harry is about all she got at school. Though she is a resonable girl, and she only has Harrys best intrests in mind so she helps him to understand Cho better, even though I think she deep down doesn't really want to, cause she's afraid of loosing him.


Don't get me wrong now, but I think that Harry Potter is really stupid kiddo, how can there be five books about him and all he got to say is "Er...".
Don't misunderstand me, I like Harry. He's ok. But he really doesn't understand people, I mean he could have said something to Cho, helped her, try to understand her or at least talk to her about it, but, as always, all he got to say is "Er...".
She completley thru herself in his arms, and all he could do was patt her a little on the back. Man, Harry really doesn't know how to handle situations like this.
She wanted him to talk to her, to explain, to console her. Her boyfriend just died and she had a millions of feelings trapped inside, she felt like a baby, needing to be consoled, needing answers. She thought Harry could give that to her. But obviously not, all he got coming was "Er...".


Got one more thing to say. 5 books is written about Harry Potter, as you all know, and Hermione and Ron hasn't shown sign of love for one another.
But it is clear, that J.K Rowling is trying to surprise us, and that would have worked, if we werent such crazy fans, discussing every tiny little detail in the books,
It is obvious that in book 6 or 7 Ron and Hermiones feelings will start showing, I am now so convinced that it would surprise me if it didn't happen.
It would be the perfect end!
Everyone expected Harry and Cho to get together, and they still might, we don't know. But I really didn't expect that end in book number 5.
I think she just wants to surprise, she doesn't want to write anything predictable. So, I think she'll continue trying to convince us that there is nothing between Ron and Hermione, and then suddenly we will be surprised by the fact that they love eachother.

Same thing happened with Sirius, we thought he was gonna die when Harry imagined him being tortured by you-know-who, and then there was a big relief when we realised that he was a live, and then suddenly she surprised us by getting him killed anyway.

I didn't expect James being such an *******, not like Harry at all, more like Malfoy! I didn't expect Harry's parents, Lily and James, the lovely, happy, perfect couple to have hated eachother in school. Or atleast Lily hated James.

I think it's all about being unpredictable.

Mel, you have really good points, but I have to ask you something...

She may be clever and insightful, but that is separate from maturity. I think many people give Hermione a bit too much credit in that department.

Why do you say that we give he too much credit? REally, I'm curious. Hermione can be a 15 year old, but she is far too clever to be considered immature...I agree with Ilkei.

The best thing was to be the good friend, which she was. [...] I don't believe Hermione tried to ruin Harry's date. I believe Hermione figured Harry liked Cho and needed to decide for himself whether she was right for him or not.

She acted quite mature there. If she likes Harry, she hid it well. Besides, many 15 year old would have jumped to tell their friends why this girl wasn't right for him or somthing. She was really intelligent in giving him the opportunity to experiment and find out by himself rather than giving him her opinion so he would find out later that she was right.... I think the frown in Hermione's face was just that she was thinking tha Harry and Cho were not right for each other. She knew it and she tried to help him as a good friend does..That is very mature...

I am going to start compiling some of this stuff. You are guys are coming with points I have not come close to thinking about.

Originally posted by hermownninny (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?postid=444832#post444832))
Why do you say that we give he too much credit? REally, I'm curious. Hermione can be a 15 year old, but she is far too clever to be considered immature...
But cleverness and maturity are two separate and independant things. She is insightful and smart and clever. But she does not have experience, and experience is the key to maturity. You can't just know what is best, you have to make mistakes and learn from them. She is only 15 and we know for a fact that she doesn't have much experience being in a relationship except for Krum, if that would even qualify. She is insightful about Cho's emotional reactions, yes, but it is easy to be objective and wise about other people's relationships, while it is much harder to be mature about your own, because you have your own emotions and biases to deal with. I find it hard to believe any 15-year-old would have such wisdom, even one as smart as Hermione.

She acted quite mature there. If she likes Harry, she hid it well. Besides, many 15 year old would have jumped to tell their friends why this girl wasn't right for him or somthing. She was really intelligent in giving him the opportunity to experiment and find out by himself rather than giving him her opinion so he would find out later that she was right.... I think the frown in Hermione's face was just that she was thinking tha Harry and Cho were not right for each other. She knew it and she tried to help him as a good friend does..That is very mature...
I don't see this as her being mature, I see this as evidence that she doesn't have romantic feelings for Harry, therefore she is able to take an objective view of the situation. I think if she actually liked Harry, she would act differently... maybe jealousy, or at least a little sadness/disappointment...

If you ask me lleyki hit the point and maybe R/Hr issue the best till now.:clappy:

I thought its kinda clear that Hermione never show any respect for Ron. If I say never than I mean never. She do as if Ron is something like a stupid kid and not someone who is at the same level as herself. Ron don´t deserve such handling maybe from a friend but certainly not from a girlfriend. Its for me a mirical why R/HR is such a good idea if Ron don´t get any respect. Show me where Hermione looks at Ron like she do that often to Harry. Show me where Hermione is that happy about anything Ron did like she do by Harry. This issuse went through the books like a redline. Even as Ron get his badge beeing Prefect Hermione wasn´t pride she was shocked. The only one who did react positive was Mrs. Weasley there is it where I expect a girl who likes Ron is happy for him and don´t ask shocked in disbelieve if he is sure?!
In OotP are so many signs that Hermione don´t like Ron that way.
Its again how she react as she got this parfume and this famous quote where she told Harry he isn´t worst as Ron or as she say Ron is the most immature .... she ever had the unfortune to meet. Honestly thats screams I don´t respect you. I wait to the day where Ron has enough from that.

Re: this whole Hermione respecting Ron issue
Now that I think about it more, perhaps its Hermione's frustration that Ron is so clueless and immature. Her disrespectful remarks, and their arguments in general, may just be a way to vent their frustration with each other and the tension between them. Which is a very 15-year-old thing to do. :)

Now that I think about it more, perhaps its Hermione's frustration that Ron is so clueless and immature. Her disrespectful remarks, and their arguments in general, may just be a way to vent their frustration with each other and the tension between them. Which is a very 15-year-old thing to do. She is it before GoF so this can´t be. Remember this little pet fight was she respectful about his pet? No.

Well, after reading lleyki's post (very nice :clappy: ) I need to throw out this suggestion that we all continue further debates on this topic over at the Book Six Prediction thread. It's much easier to keep up with everything if we restrict the discussion to one thread, and I've also noticed that there are actually some R/Hr shippers here--there's not much debating going on at the other thread when all of us H/Hr shippers are just agreeing with each other. :D

I hope that this thread either gets merged or closed, because I know that I don't only speak for myself when I say that I would love to hear the arguments from the members who post exclusively on this thread, even though many of us find it more convenient to stay on the other thread.

QUOTE by MEL:
"But cleverness and maturity are two separate and independant things. She is insightful and smart and clever. But she does not have experience, and experience is the key to maturity. You can't just know what is best, you have to make mistakes and learn from them. She is only 15 and we know for a fact that she doesn't have much experience being in a relationship except for Krum, if that would even qualify. She is insightful about Cho's emotional reactions, yes, but it is easy to be objective and wise about other people's relationships, while it is much harder to be mature about your own, because you have your own emotions and biases to deal with. I find it hard to believe any 15-year-old would have such wisdom, even one as smart as Hermione."

Mel,
I think your no quite right about cleaverness and maturity being two different things. You cannot forget common sense and that is dependent on cleaverness, intelligence, insightfulness and maturity, all in one. And maturity does not come with age, common sense does. And common sense also comes with the above mentions traits. They all feed off one another in some way or another. Hermione seems to have a pre-disposition for all these traits which is why she id so complex.
No one can know what is best but with what Hermione knows she can make the best guess at what is best and that guess she can make I would trust better than the average "person" who might make the same guess.
On your last statement about wisdon. I have to agree again somewhat. Wisdom does come with age but it again is also affected by so many other things; intelligence, common sence, insightfulness and cleverness. They all tie in together. When one is not as strong the others help in the decision making. To be 15, like most adults think, does not mean you are not mature just because of age or experience. Maturity comes form so many things, thats why no one can properly explain what maturity is.
Is Hermione in this book read as though she is that mature; You bet is she. Thats why Harry keeps going back to her, thats why Harry has a small part in his head that talks like hermione, thats why Harry likes to hang around her. She is a foundation for him and it makes him stronger.

"This post seemed a little harsh after reading it, not ment to be, sorry."

That would be a good idea if we just took this two threads together because, well its the same. Why not just call it love thread without any number, without any book... thing. It wozuld make life so much easier.

Please, mod do it thats would make even your live easier one thread and not two. We are all pretty much off topic and that since page 4.

I really didn't expect Cho and Harry to get together. I'm really glad , for some unknown reason, that it went the way it did. I think JK did a GREAT job with the romance part. I was kindda wondering how she was gonna put mushy romance stuff into kids books. I found it really odd of Cho to be asking all that stuff about Cedric, what a :censored: LoL . I think she really cared about Cedric and wanted to get some information out of Harry . Sure she is a flirt, which is fine, but I think she never had any real intensions with Harry. I think she just wanted to talk about Cedric.
;)

I really CANNOT imagine Harry's life without Hermione. Many occasion. I wanted to shout out in PRAISE when Hermione thought of ways to get Harry cleared (eg. In OTP, getting Rita Skeeters to clear Harry's name. in Umbridge's office when she faked her crying- and btw, only Harry realised it wasn't real tears; BRAVO!!! Hermione.)
I was never a shipper but after reading OTP, I couldn't help but see somethings that I have never really paid attention to.
Even if at the end of everything, and Harry wasn't with Hermione, I truly believe she will always have a special place in his heart.

Minus her sometimes unbearable nagging, who wouldn't want to have a friend like Hermione.

Even with the nagging. Often, it's necessary.

Hello guys, it's my first post! ^_^ I have enjoyed reading most of these posts. They have really boosted my hope for H/Hr. Here is my little bit, some of which, is repeated. These are just the instances that stuck out most in my mind.

Of course there are spoilers ^_^


- It is obvious that Ron likes Hermione, I am not doubting that. He acted a bit jumpy when Hermione said that Harry was not a bad kisser.

"How do you know?" said Ron in a sharp voice. (pg 458, The Eye of the Snake)

He also seemed a bit woosey when she kissed him before the game:

"Good luck, Ron," said Hermione, standing on tiptoe and kissing him on the cheek. "And you, Harry-"
Ron seemed to come to himself slightly as they walked back across the Great Hall. He touched the the spot on his face where Hermione had kissed him, looking puzzled, as though he was not quite sure what had just happened. (pg 404, The Lion and the Serpent)

He also is still jealous of Krum:

"Krum?"
"How many Viktor's do we know?"
Ron said nothing, but looked disgruntled.......
"What does she see in Krum?" Ron demanded as he and Harry climbed the boys' stairs.
(pg 460-461, The Eye of the Snake)

- As for Hermione showing interest in Ron, very little, at least in this book. Sure, she kissed Ron on the cheek, but she knew he was nervous and was trying to cheer him up. I know people say "This was it! She likes him!" If that were true, could we not say this when she kissed Harry in Book 4, or when she knocked Harry over when he came to Grimmauld Place?

- As for Harry's feelings for Cho, I believe we can more than 90% say that he is over her. He is so depressed because of the death, he doesn't seem to care about anything anymore.

"What's--er--going on with you and her anyway?" Ron asked quietly.
"Nothing," said Harry truthfully.
"I--er--heard she's going on with someone else now," said Hermione tentatively.
Harry was surprised to find that this information did not hurt at all. Wanting to impress Cho seemed to belong to the past that was no longer quite connected with him. So much had he wanted before Sirius's death felt that way these days...The week that had elapsed since he had last seen Sirius seemed to have lasted much, much longer. It stretched across two universes, the one with Sirius in it, and the one without.
"You're well out of it, mate," said Ron forcefully. "I mean, she's quite good-looking and all that, but you want someone a bit more cheerful."
(pg. 865-866, The Second War Begins)


- As for Hermione liking Harry, there is a bit more than that of Ron liking Hermione. The problem is, I dont have enough time to go through it all-- because it spans all 5 books. That webpage is a bunch of it, but the subtle things in the other books, such as:

Hermione's lips trembled, and she suddendly dashed at Harry and threw her arms around him.
"Hermione!"
"Harry-- you're a great wizard, you know."
(Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone; pg 286-287, Through the Trapdoor)

They seem to spend alot of time together as well, they don't argue either.

I have also read *many* interviews of JK Rowling, and I have seen that she said there is something "going on" between Hermione and Ron, but what does that mean? I have also seen that she has said that Hermione and Harry are "Platonic friends" which means, if you don't know, friends that relationship does not involve romance. But havent we always known that the best relationships spring from the best of friends? For God sake! They have been friends for at least 5 years. How can they not even feel an inkling of a feeling for each other.

Harry, of course, is a bit more complex. To me, he likes her, but he is unaware-- just as Ron was. He was so obssessed with Cho he ignored his potential feelings for Hermione. Have we not noticed that they spend the most time together? And when Harry remembers bad things that have happened he thinks of Hermione? Ron has had his share of bad mishaps-- he doesnt think of Ron (not that I would want him to think of him in a romantic way, but still). Hermione is always by his side-- always. She believes him when no one else does. Remember in the 4th book about the Goblet? Hermione tried to patch things up between Harry and Ron, because she believed Harry when Ron didn't.

I dont really see anything happening between Ginny and Harry. But then again.....I could be wrong...it's happened before. ^_~
*takes a deep breath*

I thought the romance in OotP was well done. It seemed realistic from what I know of teenage romance, or of adult romance for that matter. Maybe a sexist comment, but I don't think Harry is alone in his misunderstanding of women.

One quote that really stuck out to me was this one.

"Didn't you listen to Dolores Umbridge's speech at the start-of-term feast, Potter"
"Yeah," said Harry. "Yeah...she said...progress will be prohibited or...well, it meant that...that the Ministry of Magic is trying to interfere at Hogwarts."
"Well, I'm glad you listen to Hermione Granger at any rate."

hehehe. Harry and Hermione also go on a lot more adventures too, alone.

One thing that bugs me is the kisses. Hermione kissed harry on the cheek in book 4, possibly to show feelings. But one could argue that it was because he was going through a lot. the same thing happened with ron though. you could say it shows feelings, or that it was because he was nervous. IMHO, the kisses can be tossed out the window now as evidence of either ship.

One more thing I found interesting was JKR's description of Luna as an anti-hermione in the Royal Albert Hall; and you cant deny that ron is an anti-hermione.

Originally posted by Earendil (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?postid=445380#post445380))
Well, after reading lleyki's post (very nice :clappy: ) I need to throw out this suggestion that we all continue further debates on this topic over at the Book Six Prediction thread. It's much easier to keep up with everything if we restrict the discussion to one thread, and I've also noticed that there are actually some R/Hr shippers here--there's not much debating going on at the other thread when all of us H/Hr shippers are just agreeing with each other. :D

I hope that this thread either gets merged or closed, because I know that I don't only speak for myself when I say that I would love to hear the arguments from the members who post exclusively on this thread, even though many of us find it more convenient to stay on the other thread.
I don't want to go over to the other thread because its even longer than this one and I don't have time to read another 1000 posts. Please don't close this thread. :( I'm sure the same arguments are going on over there as are here...

Originally posted by Fate (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?postid=445408#post445408))
I think your no quite right about cleaverness and maturity being two different things. You cannot forget common sense and that is dependent on cleaverness, intelligence, insightfulness and maturity, all in one. And maturity does not come with age, common sense does. And common sense also comes with the above mentions traits. They all feed off one another in some way or another. Hermione seems to have a pre-disposition for all these traits which is why she is so complex.
I'm sorry, but I don't agree. Cleverness means you have a quick, insightful mind, one that recognizes things that others don't. Maturity is... well, you're right, it's hard to explain. It's being able to make the best decision in difficult circumstances... it's being selfless and humble in your actions, thinking of others... it's knowing your place in the world and carrying out your purpose... treating others the way you would want to be treated... I think common sense is an aspect of maturity, not the other way around as you described. There's no one definition of it, it's just a list of characteristics. It's the sum of your reactions in every situation and all the choices you make. All the characteristics matter - just having one or two does not make you mature. That's why many people in this world, including many adults, are not mature.

Aquiring these characteristics usually takes time, although some people (like Harry) are forced to grow up quicker and aquire many of them at once. I'm not saying Harry is mature, but he does have many characteristics of maturity that takes most people a lifetime to gain. Hermione, however, is a different story. I think she does have the type of personality that predisposes her to it, but she does not have the experience to know what is best in all types of situations. I think Hermione's immaturity shows the most in her relationship with Ron, and her obsession with academics. There was that famous quote from PS/SS about how there are more important things than books and cleverness... so she understands she is a little over the top in that area, but knowing is one thing. Being able to change yourself, based on what you know, is another sign of great maturity, and very difficult to do.

But the whole reason I brought up Hermione's maturity is because I don't think she has enough of it to ignore her feelings for Harry (assuming she has any) and be so completely civil and objective about his life and relationships. That takes a great amount of self-control, which would be hard for anyone to do, let alone a 15-year-old whose very chemical balance is working against them.

I believe Harry is quite mature. But he is still 15 and he walks with burdens I cannot imagine his fellow students being able to handle.

Another thing, I do not think Hermione is ignoring her feelings for Harry. I think it is Harry ignoring his feelings for her and not knowing that she is trying to spend more time alone with him. The prefect fiasco (insert foot in mouth), the elf hats (Hermione was basically screaming for Harry to be alone with her), the rather odd reaction she has to Harry and Cho kissing, the holding Harry all the time when in scared, etc

Harry is so caught up with people calling him insane and a liar, Cho, his scar hurting all the time, Dumbledore not even talking or looking at him Umbridge and everything else that happened in the summer that he cannot see that Hermione likes him and he her. The dream and her voice constantly popping up in his head. Hermione is also aware of this and this is why I think she did not try push things along as much as she could of.

Ron knows that Hermione and Harry have something going on. He has known ever since the night Harry told them about kissing Cho. Now that Harry at least has the school off his back. No more Umbridge abusing him and the school not thinking he is insane but a hero now, he is going to have an easier time at Hogwarts. However losing Sirius though very painful is going to very much help Harry in the future.

I really don't believe that a H/Hr relationship is possible. It's just a gut instinct, but I really don't think Hermione has feelings for him as more than a friend, or he for her, which is why they're so comfortable and relaxed around each other.

Yes, they are comfortable and relaxed around each other but that is from love not lack of it. One, they are both alot more mature than normal teenagers their age. That comes from their experience. Two, they have had five years from a very platonic friendship to get past alot of the tension they would normally feel. Three, they are all possible. The author has seen to that.

I totally agree with paradoxpanda. I have read and re-read the books and I cannot find a single thing that would indicate that JK intends Harry and Hermione to end up together. I dont have the book in front of me but, for example, but at end of GOF when Ron is staring at Fleur, Hermione looks "absolutely furious", yet in OOP when Cho has been staring at Harry after the DA first meet at Hogs Head, Hermione "smiles slightly". That is just one example, there are many more. Surely by 5th year there would be some indication of feelings between Harry and Hermione but I just dont think there are any. Surely if there was a "spark" between H/Hr there would be more than just them being relaxed and comfortable with each other... Anyways only JK knows for sure :)

I think that this whole thing with Ron and Hermione is not going to work out. They're best friends but not much more.

As for Draco and Hermione.......................

Mel, thanks for noting my post almost convinced you! High praise indeed. I respect your position and can only say that I think JKR has set up the path but just with what may be a less obvious approach to some. Still per my post on the Book 6 predictions/romance thread, where I reworked my post from here, I do think that IMO Harry's unexamined feelings were the most evident of all upon initial read-throughs. It just seemed IMO that he dwelled start-to-end upon the thought and form of Hermione. Nonetheless, debate is the spice of life.

Sone, I totally agree with your recent post:
"...
Another thing, I do not think Hermione is ignoring her feelings for Harry. I think it is Harry ignoring his feelings for her and not knowing that she is trying to spend more time alone with him. [refs potential evidence for Hm-->H]

Harry is so caught up with people calling him insane and a liar, Cho, his scar hurting all the time, Dumbledore not even talking or looking at him Umbridge and everything else that happened in the summer that he cannot see that Hermione likes him and he her. [refs potential evidence for H-->Hm]

Ron knows that Hermione and Harry have something going on. He has known ever since the night Harry told them about kissing Cho.
..."

On that last, you are correct in that it was one of the few occasions that we are shown Ron being exceptionally perceptive. He may very well know better than Harry himself at this point.

On a different point, there is something that's always bothered me. I wonder if we have overlooked something going back to PoA. Remember the main plot throughout most of the book was that Harry's life was in danger from an escapee from Azkaban. In DADA, only Harry and Hermione are exempted from facing their deepest fears in front of class. Later Lupin explains to Harry why he was exempted, but we never hear why Hermione was [other than Lupin took a correct answer in its stead...]. In DADA exam, the students face their boggarts privately in the trunk. Hermione had the time turner. Lupin it seems, obviously let her off ahead of time based on whatever her fear was. Could it have been a dead Harry? It could have been a dead Ron, but it seems there was much less reason to fear anyone's likely death but Harry's. Did anyone else ever wonder? Darthsky's post on one of these threads got me to thinking.

Eva, I posted this over on another thread.....

I just thought about something. When Harry, Hermione, Ron, Ginny, Luna and Neville were near that archway in OOTP, Hermione was scared, really scared about Harry getting near it. She could not hear voices and told Harry there were not any but she did not snap at Harry when he said he did. She did at Luna as if she didn't want to believe it. As if she didn't want anyone to confirm that there were voices coming from the archway. She kept trying to pull Harry away from it but she couldn't. She finally got desperate and brought up Sirius and Harry seem to snap out of it.

I was just thinking that Hermione in POA did not leave Trelawney's class because of the fact she thought she was a fraud but because she kept dramatically predicting Harry's death. I mean that is what got Hermione to really snap at her in the first place. Then I thought about how extremely bloodshot her eyes were in the hospital wing after Harry fell off his broom. Now this part here is strictly my opinion only, nothing more.
Here it goes........

I think Hermione lied about what she saw when she met the boggart in Lupin's obstacle course. I think she saw Harry dead rather than McGonagall saying she failed everything. She spent about a minute inside it. I think she tried to fight it much like Mrs. Weasley fought her boggart in OOTP but Hermione couldn't get past it and ran out screaming. I also find it strange that Hermione never faced off against the boggart just like Harry didn't when Lupin first taught the class and Hermione never protested about not fighting off the boggart. You would think Hermione would protest about missing out on such a good lesson from the best and most competent DADA teacher they've ever had. We found out first hand what Harry's boggart turned into, but we never see Hermione's boggart and we still haven't. We just are just told what Hermione said she saw. Why didn't she tell anybody? Would you tell anyone such a thing, especially your best friend such a thing? You have just been tryng to convince him to not worry about Trelawney's stupid grim and then you see that? Like I said, my opinion only and not anymore than that. But I think it is interesting.

You have same idea that I do. Hermione does not like the idea of Harry dying even as a sarcastic joke.

I'm re-reading OoPT, so I scooped up some more points about H/Hr.

o Harry and Hermione said the same things at the same time on more than one occasion. They have simial thoughts and opinions. =D

o Hermione noticed that Cho couldn't keep her eyes off of Harry on their first meeting in the Hog's Head. Either Hermione is very observant and could spot anything, or something else...

o Since, GOF, I've noticed that Hermione and Ginny share information just between each other. It looks like they're getting closer, so I wonder if Ginny knows who Hermione is interested in. ^_^

o Hermione seems like an influence to Harry... and as someone mentioned, a concience.

"..., not for the first time, a voice very much like Hermione's whispered in his ear: reckless."

Note, not for the first time it happened. Seems like Hermione is one of those few who can stop Harry from doing something that might get him in trouble...



Now, I also spotted something really interesting. I already wrote a while ago that Luna Lovegood liked Ron, and I found another quote that supports that...

"It's good, isn't it?" said Luna happily. "I wanted to have it chewing up a serpent to represent Slytherin, you know, but there wasn't time. Anyway... good luck, Ronald!"

Harry was to be playing against Slytherin too, but she only said good luck to Ron. Also, she called him Ronald, and I can't remember the time any of Ron's friends called him that... o.O

Well I think there may be something to a foreshadowing of Harry and Hermione but I always felt that they exhibited more of a best friend type relationship- a yang to Ron's yin. Hermione has insights that Ron misses and she shares them comfortably with Harry because she is his friend.
I think Hermione and Rn may end up a couple because they have together shared Harry as a friend. I don't know how to workd this better, but I see Harry as more solitary- the way Ron and Hermione exchanged looks with each other as early a CoS regarding Harry that continues through the books Like they have deep discussions about Harry (and other things) when Harry isn't around.

Also since JKR was consulted during the script writing, I think the tension between Ron and Hermione at the end of CoS had to be put in earlier in the series because the movies won't have as much time to develop their relationship.

well, Hr/R might happen, though i'm not sure if it'll last...

So do I Siriusly. I have always thought they have exhibited a best friend type of relationship too, but that is why I think H/Hr is becoming more possible. I have a quote from the X-Files I should give here:

"It seems to me that the best relationships, the ones that last, are frequently the ones that are rooted in friendship. You know, one day you look at the person and you see something more than you did the night before. Like a switch has been flicked somewhere, and the person who was just a friend is suddenly the only person you can imagine yourself with."

For me I see that with Harry and Hermione. A deeply rooted friendship that just became something more than it was before. For the first time in the entire series, Harry doesn't know why disappointing Hermione is apalling to him. It just happens. Clearly, Hermione wanted Harry to be a prefect. She was anticipating it and I have to wonder, where did this come from? Also she starts to defend Harry far more often now and talk to Harry with far more patience than anyone else outside of Dumbledore.

hold up a second there, can anyone answer this? --


why was hermione so excited when she thought that harry was to be a prefect? but then bummed out that ron was the actual prefect

The Ron Hermione Thing: Okay on the dateline interview with Jk. Katie Couric asked if we would see Harry and Hermione snogging in furtue books. Jk replied no but I can't promise you the same between Ron and Hermione. So it is obvious Ron/Hermione will be just not yet. Over all I think Ginny and Harry will end up together still I mean look how their dates ended up.

well, if R/Hr will actually happen, why do people automatically say, that leaves Ginny for Harry.


no one is certain how the R/Hr will go, and if it will not break up. you can't throw H/Hr out the window in any case, nothing is for sure..

Sone: "Eva, I posted this over on another thread....."
Eerie, as I went to that thread next & just now saw it. I think this argues strongly re: emphasis of one-sidedness of Ron's crush on Hermione. If we go with PoA boggart as potential evidence of Hermione's feelings toward Harry, then Ron's displays toward her in GoF and OoP would seem to potentially hold less weight in Hermione's eyes even though she is doubtless aware of them by now. This has other interesting implications, as well. It would explain McGonagall's comment to Harry about at least listening to Hermione, since Lupin would have undoubtedly told DD &/or McG about why he ok'd the use of the time-turner in that instance. That is, once Hermione's position was known to DD & McG, they may well have seen her as key to keeping Harry out of harm's way, enlisted her, and apparently check with her from time to time, not Ron, on Harry's state of mind and so forth. All this trust in Hermione to look out for Harry would thus be fundamentally rooted in knowing Hermione's deepest fear -- and could be viewed as more support for H/Hm. Too far-fetched?

no, not far-fetched. i actually agree with that.

hermione is very honest and tries to keep harry out of harm's way. that is definately true.. the order also believes this. ron sometimes agrees with harry about reckless things so hermione is more reliable.

example, she went against harry's will and reported about the firebolt. ron would never have done that. hermione knew perfectly well that harry would be extremely angry with her but his safety meant more than that to hermione

I'm not any kind of shipper but after reading one too many times the books and after reading each and every H/Hr argument. I'm absolutely convinced that H/Hr will NOT happen.

Because each and every detail that really makes the difference (e.g. Ron buying perfume for Hermione) never happens between Harry and Hermione. They're such good friends that anything would just ruin it. Luna will definitely add some spice to the whole Romance Thing.

P.S. - By the way me and Tonks are a sure thing. ;)

you can never be sure. this whole thing can turn upside down and you'll have to re-read a million times before actually understanding what happened...

there is as much chance for R/Hr as H/Hr. both have good evidence, and neither can be ignored or completely denied.

again, for the millionth time, we dunno who hermione likes, so we can't say anything for 100%.

the truth is, all we know is that ron likes hermione. that's it. period. the hints show some things but nothing is for certain yet.

we can't say that R/Hr will definately happen and that H/Hr will always be platonic friends. BECAUSE again, hermione has us totally obscured with her feelings.

She could like Neville for all we know.. (joke!! i dun want that to happen)

Funny, I wouldn't call myself a shipper yet either, b/c I feels it's a bit presumptuous as many here are lots more knowlegeable about the shipper bits of the canon. Nonetheless, after several re-reads and reading all the various different shipper args, I draw the exact opposite conclusion re: the possibility of H/Hr. I think it's facinating, actually, how the same evidence and text can be so widely interpreted, and that's a key part of its genius. Again, however, it's helpful to get past details that only support R-->Hm, as I don't think many debate the existence of Ron's crush on Hermione & most would certainly agree with you on the perfume incident supporting that. It's Hermione's and/or Harry's intentions that are largely up for debate, as I understand. Cheers!

well, what's up with the perfume anyway? i wonder if hermione has caught up with ron's feelings...

Whatever she know or not, she have not drop any more hint for ron. This is from Harry's POV of course. As our lovely H/R always want to remind us that.

Yes, we can't forget that... Just because Harry don't feel like it doesn't mean there's nothing there ;)

What kind of message do you think Hermione is trying to send by writing her chapter length letters to Krum? Is there a message being sent to Ron or Harry? Or both?

I think maybe the message is being sent to Ron, but I dunno really....

I don´t know if I´m really a shipper but yeah I could call myself like that but IMO is a shipper who only see this pairing happen and don´t look if other are possible. As I read GoF I was more for H/Hr though I knew that there are more obvious things by R/Hr. So my thinking was 50 to 50 though H/Hr was stronger IMO. Its that there are so many images and moments and over all a building up.

Building up: Is if in every book is a growing steps more closer to each other.

Something what isn´t there by R/Hr this two steping around on one spot there isn´t any changing or growing. Thats one of the main problems and there is the point that they don´t respect each other not that much like H/Hr.

But after OotP there is for me enough prove that H/Hr could easiely happen.

FP: "...Building up: Is if in every book is a growing steps more closer to each other.
Something what isn´t there by R/Hr this two steping around on one spot there isn´t any changing or growing. Thats one of the main problems and there is the point that they don´t respect each other not that much like H/Hr.
But after OotP there is for me enough prove that H/Hr could easiely happen."

I think that's it for me as well. There has been no real qualitative change in R/Hm relationship. He still crushes on her, yet they still argue pointlessly with little real respect for one another -- which to me indicates only a superficial crush on his part, whether he realises that yet or not.

For H/Hm, on the other hand, there has been a buildup and as you and Perdita on other post indicate, a real and increasing change in the quality of their relationship. We just don't seem Hermione depending on Ron for protection or support nor Harry depending on Ron for emotional support and level guidance. They increasingly find these things in each other, in the main wholly apart from Ron.

sorry, this really ain't about anything except...Daily Propheter, I LOVE THAT SIDE-PIC!!! (sorry, if you hate me...i'm a lotr (lord of the rings fan, too)...)

I think Harry and Hermione would make a cute couple but RON AND HERMIONE ARE JUST SO CUTE!!!!!! LOL. Seriously. I think the kiss on the cheek b4 the qudditch game to Ron was absolutely cute AHH lol.
I still see Harry and Ginny for some odd reason.

:D hehe...cute yea..

Someone mentioned earlier that Ron noticed something going on between Harry and Hermione. I must not have seen it or did not see it and I just got done reading that scene yesterday for the 3rd time. I suppose I could go back and reread, which I will, but could you (who ever you were) let me know how and what led you to believe Ron has any clue of any feelings between Harry and Hermione?

Someone mentioned earlier that Ron noticed something going on between Harry and Hermione. I must not have seen it or did not see it and I just got done reading that scene yesterday for the 3rd time. I suppose I could go back and reread, which I will, but could you (who ever you were) let me know how and what led you to believe Ron has any clue of any feelings between Harry and Hermione?
Thats between the line as Ron ask Hermione "How do you know?" very sharply as she said Harry isn´t a bad kisser.
Second one is Ron reaction as Hermione tells him they weren´t at his game. He grows red and ask in a strange way why as if this two where for something up to do.

he feels left out? is that the right phrase for how ron feels?

Hmmmmm. :)

Originally posted by evaluna (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?postid=450561#post450561))
Mel, thanks for noting my post almost convinced you! High praise indeed.
You're welcome. ;)

On a different point, there is something that's always bothered me. I wonder if we have overlooked something going back to PoA. Remember the main plot throughout most of the book was that Harry's life was in danger from an escapee from Azkaban. In DADA, only Harry and Hermione are exempted from facing their deepest fears in front of class. Later Lupin explains to Harry why he was exempted, but we never hear why Hermione was [other than Lupin took a correct answer in its stead...]. In DADA exam, the students face their boggarts privately in the trunk. Hermione had the time turner. Lupin it seems, obviously let her off ahead of time based on whatever her fear was. Could it have been a dead Harry?
She said it was McGonagall giving her failing grades, remember? Unless she was lying... and there is no indication that she was. Sone goes even further...

Originally posted by sone (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?postid=450573#post450573))
I was just thinking that Hermione in POA did not leave Trelawney's class because of the fact she thought she was a fraud but because she kept dramatically predicting Harry's death. I mean that is what got Hermione to really snap at her in the first place. Then I thought about how extremely bloodshot her eyes were in the hospital wing after Harry fell off his broom. Now this part here is strictly my opinion only, nothing more.
Here it goes........

I think Hermione lied about what she saw when she met the boggart in Lupin's obstacle course. I think she saw Harry dead rather than McGonagall saying she failed everything.
Like I say above, there is no indication that she lied about any of this. JKR would have let us know if she was by giving us hints in the text. You are taking the things Hermione says/does and making it mean the opposite of what Rowling obviously intended. No offense, but you are digging way to deep into this, and coming up with baseless assumptions that go completely against what is in the text. There is no reason for us to believe that Hermione is lying about these things except that it helps the case for H/Hr.

In a previous post, you pointed out some things from OotP that H/Hr shippers commonly use as evidence of their ships. I'm going to go through them one by one, and explain my point of view. I'm not trying to offend anyone, I'm just giving my opinion.

Originally posted by sone (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?postid=448985#post448985))
Another thing, I do not think Hermione is ignoring her feelings for Harry. I think it is Harry ignoring his feelings for her and not knowing that she is trying to spend more time alone with him. (1) The prefect fiasco (insert foot in mouth), (2) the elf hats (Hermione was basically screaming for Harry to be alone with her), (3) the rather odd reaction she has to Harry and Cho kissing, (4) the holding Harry all the time when in scared, etc [...] (5) The dream and (6) her voice constantly popping up in his head.

(1) The prefect fiasco. It never says Hermione was disappointed. In my opinion, she came off as merely surprised. This is how I read the scene: Hermione bursts into the room, sees Harry with the badge, and is excited that they will be prefects together. Note that her excitement is also due to that fact that she herself is prefect, not just because Harry is one too (she thinks). When she realizes the badge is Ron's, she doesn't know what to say, because it's not what she was expecting. She would have had the same happy reaction if she had been expecting Ron to get it. But everyone was expecting Harry to be prefect, so she was caught off guard. Ron gets miffed about her obvious shock, and Hermione feels bad. Not because she doesn't want Ron to be prefect or would rather have Harry, but because she knows she should have been happy and supportive of Ron, too. And she is happy and supportive, when she recovers from her initial surprise after making a fool of herself.

(2) the elf hats. Hermione did not ask Ron to help her because he has made his opinion on elf rights very clear. Of course he would not help her make clothes, why would she even bother asking? Harry, however, has kept his mouth shut about it, so Hermione believes that he agrees with her and asks him to help make hats. She is disappointed when he says no, if not because she realizes he agrees with Ron, at least because she will not be getting help making the hats.

(3) the rather odd reaction she has to Harry and Cho kissing. I don't see her reaction as odd at all. If anything, it is evidence that she doesn't have romantic feelings for Harry. Where is the jealousy? Where is the resentment of Cho? Where is the sadness that Harry wasn't kissing her? Hermione's demeanor is described as "business-like." To me that says she is finding out what Harry was up to, commenting on it, and suggesting how he could do better, because that is her job as a best friend. If you put Hermione's words in Ron's mouth, we wouldn't be wondering about a H/R ship.

(4) the holding Harry all the time when in scared. Well, who would you grab in the face of danger? Harry or Ron? I rest my case.

(5) The dream. Frankly, I only vaguely remember his dream, so I can't really comment on it. I know that Cho turns into Hermione, but that could have any number of meanings. Perhaps it has something to do with my next explanation of...

(6) her voice constantly popping up in his head. Hermione is the voice of reason, Harry's conscience. It's saying what Hermione would say if she was there. What is she saying? "Ooh, Harry baby, I want you so bad"? No. It's reminding him what would be the safest and most responsible course of action, because that's what consciences do. Whether you listen to it or not is a different story. ;) (And I'd like to note that Harry often doesn't listen to it, which shows how much he listens to Hermione.)

I think if Harry and Hermione were to have a relationship, we would have seen some definite inklings in Harry's mind apart from the vague and ambiguous evidence stated above. We haven't seen them. We have seen evidence that at least Ron likes Hermione, and IMO GoF supports Hermione liking Ron.

Now back to evaluna :)

Originally posted by evaluna (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?postid=453188#post453188))
FP: "...Building up: Is if in every book is a growing steps more closer to each other.
Something what isn't there by R/Hr this two steping around on one spot there isn't any changing or growing. Thats one of the main problems and there is the point that they don't respect each other not that much like H/Hr.
But after OotP there is for me enough prove that H/Hr could easiely happen."

I think that's it for me as well. There has been no real qualitative change in R/Hm relationship. He still crushes on her, yet they still argue pointlessly with little real respect for one another -- which to me indicates only a superficial crush on his part, whether he realises that yet or not.

For H/Hm, on the other hand, there has been a buildup and as you and Perdita on other post indicate, a real and increasing change in the quality of their relationship. We just don't seem Hermione depending on Ron for protection or support nor Harry depending on Ron for emotional support and level guidance. They increasingly find these things in each other, in the main wholly apart from Ron.
We have no idea how deep Ron and Hermione's relationship is or whether it has changed. It may not be evident because we are only seeing Harry's point of view. We know what happens when Harry and Hermione are alone, we know what they do, feel and talk about. But we do not know what Ron and Hermione do, feel, or talk about when Harry is not around. That is why their relationship may seem superficial.

Thanks for reading. :smile:

Hello everybody! I haven't read book five because it hasn't been published yet where I live, so I'm falling over myself to read it.

I'm taken aback as regards the romance issue in the book ( for what I have read) because I think the perfect pair/ couple, or at least the one I like best, is Harry and Hermione. Does anyone think that way???

Thanks for reading this and I'd be glad to read your opinion.

Naty

quote:
On a different point, there is something that's always bothered me. I wonder if we have overlooked something going back to PoA. Remember the main plot throughout most of the book was that Harry's life was in danger from an escapee from Azkaban. In DADA, only Harry and Hermione are exempted from facing their deepest fears in front of class. Later Lupin explains to Harry why he was exempted, but we never hear why Hermione was [other than Lupin took a correct answer in its stead...]. In DADA exam, the students face their boggarts privately in the trunk. Hermione had the time turner. Lupin it seems, obviously let her off ahead of time based on whatever her fear was. Could it have been a dead Harry? --end quote

How would Lupin know of Hermione's fear before she ever faced a boggart? After the DADA test he would surely know but before in class, how?

I am surprised at the number of people who think that this book signalled the end of the Harry/Ginny romance possibilites. I think that things are moving along quite well in this arena. First of all, before there could be a romance between them, Ginny had to get over her crush. Secondly, there are all sorts of clues dropped throughout the book about Ginny being very powerful. there is a discussion at the Black mansion about size not being related to power and one of the twins explains to Harry that he has never been on the receiving end of one of Ginny's curses. Ginny steps forward as an excellent quiddich player, and all in all, I think that she is being set up so that one can see that she is Harry's equal. That is the key, Ginny and Harry will come together, but not Ginny the little sister... it will be Ginny and Harry as equals.

I also thought that the Ron and Hermione romance moved forward in an equally subtle way. They are shown as being more comfortable with each other. They have gotten over snipping at each other. They are starting to be portrayed as companions, I believe that this is a preliminary step to having them be more than friends.

As for Harry and Hermione, no, I think that it has been made extremely clear that those two are just friends. They will never have any kind of romance. I think Harry and Luna would be more likely than Harry and Hermione (I am not advocating for that either though).

I think that the romance had to be slowed down a lot in this book. Otherwise, by the seventh book she would have had some couples at a romantic level that was unappropriate for a children's book. She can't really have people go beyond kissing and hand holding. so that means that she has to save these.

All in all, I think that her romances are exactly where I would have expected them to be at the end of this book

i see your point, but i think harry needs a more mature girl. i don't think he's ever thought of ginny in a more than friends way, and you can look at little context clues all you want, but you miss the bold points jk makes. harry is/was embarassed over ginny's affection. not flattered. he found it annoying.
while the whole idea of romance being exactly where it should be in book 5 i agree with, the specific characters don't fit.

Quote (evaluna):
"On a different point, there is something that's always bothered me. I wonder if we have overlooked something going back to PoA. Remember the main plot throughout most of the book was that Harry's life was in danger from an escapee from Azkaban. In DADA, only Harry and Hermione are exempted from facing their deepest fears in front of class. Later Lupin explains to Harry why he was exempted, but we never hear why Hermione was [other than Lupin took a correct answer in its stead...]. In DADA exam, the students face their boggarts privately in the trunk. Hermione had the time turner. Lupin it seems, obviously let her off ahead of time based on whatever her fear was. Could it have been a dead Harry?"

MEL:
She said it was McGonagall giving her failing grades, remember? Unless she was lying... and there is no indication that she was. Sone goes even further..."

TreeGuardian, what I was trying to explore was the possibility that in PoA, Lupin [et al] may have seen Hermione's boggart in class but allowed her a time-turner exemption to redo it and skip the boggart. There's just no good reason to exempt Hermione in front of class if no one has seen her boggart. Given Harry's unique history, his sudden exemption 1st round makes a lot more sense, as Lupin later. Given that Hermione's ability to tell a white lie is well proven by her secretkeeping in PoA and given that she would do so regardless if the time-turner was utilised, Hermione certainly could have and in this case would have lied about whatever she saw on the DADA exam. All this leads one to believe that it was something that Lupin [et al] didn't want the class to see. The main point of the story is an Azakban escapee on the lose out to kill Harry, so it's really not much of a stretch to think her boggart may have had something to do with since it and the reason for her exemption facing it were both hidden from us. If it's hidden, absolutely it's usually a sign to look further.

Mel: absolutely, I can only go here with what Harry's POV witnesses and thus we the readers witness. I personally do think it's possible that we are occasionally being tantalised by offstage hints. For real or for misdirection I am not sure, as I just haven't strategically analysed them all.

hmm...i think it was just that lupin knew the kind of boggart hermione had, and wanted to save her some embarassment.

Yah...but WHY? Why special treatement for Hermione? Lupin doesn't owe her anything. If her deepest fear was embarassing, I'm sure many others felt the same about theirs. Do you see? It just may point to something deeper.

maybe lupin is reminded a bit of himself when he looks at hermione. after all, upin was really smart, maybe people bonked on him a bit for being brainy and didn't want to give them another opprotunity

mel:


you'r saying if JK would have been foreshadowing H/Hr we would see Harry's different opinion about Hermione. Well, what if it's just Hermione who likes Harry? And Ron likes Hermione. Harry is in the middle, isn't he...

Fred: Lupin may very well see some parallels to Hermione. Still he's fairminded enough that he isn't going to single her out for special attention [which anyway would end up doing exactly what you said he might be trying to avoid] -- unless there is some VERY good reason. I mean after all there's only one Harry with Voldemort as his personal nemesis. This level of seriousness required for an exemption for Harry doesn't apply to anyone else. My point is there is something here JKR isn't telling us, and it is very unlikely IMO that it involves whether Lupin thinks you're upstanding or resemble him, etc. Thus one alternative [unless Hermione's fear is also Voldemort, and how likely is that for her personally as Voldemort has no interest in her] is that Hermione's boggart involves something along the main theme of the story -- possibly Harry dying at the hands of the escapee or some such.
Cheers!

Originally posted by FredRocksMySocks (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?postid=454560#post454560))
i see your point, but i think harry needs a more mature girl. i don't think he's ever thought of ginny in a more than friends way, and you can look at little context clues all you want, but you miss the bold points jk makes. harry is/was embarassed over ginny's affection. not flattered. he found it annoying.
while the whole idea of romance being exactly where it should be in book 5 i agree with, the specific characters don't fit.


Alright, in book 5 we see Ginny is MUCH more mature. It's all over the place! Ginny s very mature for her age! Jeez I don't think I was even that mature last year, though actually Iseem to be getting less and less mature and more and more silly as I get older but anyway. I really would have liked to have seen Ron and hermione get together. I hated Harry and Cho together, it seemed so wrong to me! and Giny! Who knew she was such a little player (as far as hogwarts romance goes) Though I did love Ron's reactio that was oh so great:rotfl: just how I'd thought he'd react to. But think about how much longer this book would have been if ron and hermione got together :lol: I think it's long enough eh?

Am I the only one who *really* doesn't like H/Hr? o_O; I can't really explain it... Objectively, I don't think they would make a bad couple but for some reason the thought of them being anything more than friends sickens me.... I also just don't think they have any romantic feelings for each other. Read into it all you want, but I'm not convinced. *is murdered by H/Hr fans* ^_^;

And Ron, well, he seems to have feelings for Hermione but it seems that as of now it's one sided... I think that could change though, just judging from what JKR herself said in all the interviews. ^^; I'm thinking maybe Hermione isn't interested in anyone... or who knows. Maybe she'll go and run off with Viktor. :p (I doubt it, but who knows lol)

I am glad that Harry got over Cho. I don't hate her, but I don't think they were right for each other and their timing was simply awful. In my opinion Cho needs to stop seeing guys to act as her personal Kleenex and replacements for Cedric, and deal with the depression in another way. I see their relationship as a big step forward for Harry, who is most likely *not* going to crush over a girl just because she is pretty, seemingly friendly, and good at Qudditch again.

I love how Ginny opened up in this book, but after getting over Harry I don't think she is taking love very seriously. It's not necessarily a bad thing; actually I think she needs to just have fun and not drown herself in melodrama. I will admit, though, after reading OotP I don't think she's a bad match for Harry. *is pounded by H/Hr fans once more* She seems fun and willing to lend him an ear. I won't really care if she eventually ends up with him or not, but I prefer Harry with her than with Hermione or Cho. Maybe I just like the red hair with the black? Haha, perhaps...

All that being said, though, while I actually expected more romance in OotP, am I glad there wasn't more than there was.
;)

evaluna: but in the DADA end of the year exam, hermione said her boggart was mcgonagall saying she'd failed. do you reckon it was a cover up? i like the theory that hermione's worst fear is harry dying or something, it's cute...but maybe, if that was her boggart and she lied, she didn't say it was on purpose because she'd think everybody would think she liked harry, when in reality she only thought of him as a good friend.
Lupin couldn't have picked up and *vibes* in class about these 'feelings' because hermione was always so busy giving answers. there is no mention of flirting.

adam: yes, I agree, she is more mature, and part of her maturity is getting over childhood crushes and finding new people she's interested in.

Originally posted by Remembrall (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?postid=455008#post455008))
Am I the only one who *really* doesn't like H/Hr? o_O; I can't really explain it... Objectively, I don't think they would make a bad couple but for some reason the thought of them being anything more than friends sickens me.... I also just don't think they have any romantic feelings for each other. Read into it all you want, but I'm not convinced. *is murdered by H/Hr fans* ^_^;

And Ron, well, he seems to have feelings for Hermione but it seems that as of now it's one sided... I think that could change though, just judging from what JKR herself said in all the interviews. ^^; I'm thinking maybe Hermione isn't interested in anyone... or who knows. Maybe she'll go and run off with Viktor. :p (I doubt it, but who knows lol)

I am glad that Harry got over Cho. I don't hate her, but I don't think they were right for each other and their timing was simply awful. In my opinion Cho needs to stop seeing guys to act as her personal Kleenex and replacements for Cedric, and deal with the depression in another way. I see their relationship as a big step forward for Harry, who is most likely *not* going to crush over a girl just because she is pretty, seemingly friendly, and good at Qudditch again.

I love how Ginny opened up in this book, but after getting over Harry I don't think she is taking love very seriously. It's not necessarily a bad thing; actually I think she needs to just have fun and not drown herself in melodrama. I will admit, though, after reading OotP I don't think she's a bad match for Harry. *is pounded by H/Hr fans once more* She seems fun and willing to lend him an ear. I won't really care if she eventually ends up with him or not, but I prefer Harry with her than with Hermione or Cho. Maybe I just like the red hair with the black? Haha, perhaps...

All that being said, though, while I actually expected more romance in OotP, am I glad there wasn't more than there was.
;)


YOu hit it right on the nose in my mind. Well except for the fact that I hate cho, especially after this book! nd Ginny IS over her childhood crush, but just because sh'e not crushing anymore doesn't mean she doesn't hae fellings for him! Oh and I'd like to say that my ame is NOT Adam, it's Rachel, Adam being the guy I'm in love with, best friend ex boyfriend. It bugs me when people just call me Adam It's HIS gorgeous name, not mine!

I have to say I was a little disappointed. I was hoping for more of a R/Hr hook up epecially after the ending of COS.

Harry/Cho, well I guess it was too much to ask for something working out for Harry this soon in the game. Must leave Harry as the miserable poor kid with no love life.

Ginny/Harry, there are possibilities here. She's definitely got spunk. The fact that she's had 2 boyfriends means nothing, they kind of came and went, so at that age boyfriends aren't really that big of a deal.

Harry/Hr, I hope not. I like them better as friends. Their relationship right now seems more like best friends or at times HR mothering Harry.

Luna, heaven help us all if she hooks up with Harry or Ron, though she's the one person right now that knows what Harry sees and hears through that veil. The Loony part maybe just an act that could be peeled away to find a real rose in the future.

MUST HAVE BOOK 6 NOW!!! ;)

I'm glad that there was some romance in this book but i was entirly disapointed with the ending. It kind of was jsut thrown at you at the end. I was waiting for Harry to apologize or even Cho to and they and then all of a sudden Ginny was like "she met someone new and I dumped my boyfriend" I think that with the emphasis they put on it in the book therre could have been a bit more resolution to the issue or at least a bit more explanation. I just hope this subject is revisited in the future.

nah, i think it was realistic. in real life, romance isn't some drawn out soap opera. it can end just as quickly as it starts, and girls and boys can change relationships as much as they want. and ginny saying it offhandidly to Ron was only in hopes to prevent from from flipping out again.

I'me right there with you Katie bell! I was so disapointed with this book, better hopes for book 6 that should take what? Another 5 years?

I was not expecting/wanting a soap opera by any means in book 5, but was e/w more details on the feelings of the characters. My question is will JK have time now to throw us a loop. I mean she has two books left. Is there time for say a Hr/R then a H/Hr ending? Or vice versa? Will we see only one relationship or does she have time to throw in a breakup or so? To me its looking like a final hookup in book 7 with most of the pieces coming together at the end of 6. JK is known to surf the forems (could and probably is here with us) and does she take into acount our opinions even in the slightest? LK

I think if Ron and Hermione get together it might be on and off for a while. Who knows. Teenage love can sometimes get messy.

adams--very true. and with the sporadic behaviors in teenage relationships, there is always room for more relationships. we have two books, 24 months, for these things to occure, i think that she'll manage, seeing as it's going to be increasinly more important as the books go on. every year brings more and more *mature* feelings towards the opposite sex, right? so, i think we'll find time to fit in all the relationships she wants to put in.
and JK says she has everything already planned out to the t, she's not going to alter it to appease us.

What have I told you about calling me adam! Don't think your smart just because you put the s there!!!!!!! The messy ness of teenage relationships is actually what has put most of my friends away from teenage dating. JKR is a fantasic writing, we should never ever underestimate her greatness!

aww adamslove--i'm sorry lol! :o :angel: :o :angel:

suuuuuureeeee you are

hehehe oh you know it! i am an ***** on purpose, definetly. well...actually...now that you mention it....
whoa--way off topic here lol

yeah just a tad. I really hate how JKR but Harry and cho together, it seemed so wrong, and Cho in the end came off as a jerk. I was hoping that Harry would have been able to have something more special first time round, sure he went to the yule ball with pavarti butthat didn't really matter him right? But HArry and Cho were more serious than that, but it ended so sourly it made me sad.

I don't know. I think it was sort of special, not perfect, but he had crushed on this girl, they kissed under the mistletoe, ect ect ect. Granted, both of their tempers and whatnot got the better of them and they proved to clash quite a lot, but I think Harry probably learned a lot from this relationship. And both had to have grown from it, perhaps if they give it another go in the future they'll be more mature and able to control their outbursts? It is a shame that their relationship was not a perfect fairy-tale deal, but when has harry's life ever been like that? I think it was quite fitting lol

I didn't like Harry and Cho together. Is it just me, or do I not see Harry being with anyone else at school? I hated the way Cho was acting! She just seemed kinda desperate for attention~ very annoying. I was actually expecting Ron and Hermione getting together. I'm not a R/Hr shipper, it just seemed like JK was leaning that way. ~Maybe they will get together at some point... Personally, I don't care who gets together with who!

i agree with you, i'm not all that interested in their love lives nearly as much the main plot of harry and voldie and what's going to happen with whom. i figure what will come will come with that....it's the whole voldie thing in power i'd be more worried about if i were harry!

I agree with Snivelly Snape, I don't like Cho. I think she's too superficial for Harry and I don't like her manners. It's not really important to know if Ron will go out with Hermione or Harry with Hermione. Their friendship counts more than everything to try to fight against Voldemort ant to finally beat him.

Did Hermione kiss both Ron and Harry before the first Quidditch match in the chapter named the Lion and and the Serpent? I was only aware of Hermione kissing Ron on the cheek. She did turn to Harry but the whole thing was left hanging so I am so not sure if she did.

It wouldn't make much difference to me if she did kiss Harry on the cheek I just want clarification. :)

*edit*Please someone answer this question....I see no proof in the book that she did kiss Harry on the cheek too, but I see some posters saying the kiss happen. Maybe its the way they interpreted JKRs writing but are they right?

evaluna: "but in the DADA end of the year exam, hermione said her boggart was mcgonagall saying she'd failed. do you reckon it was a cover up? i like the theory that hermione's worst fear is harry dying or something, it's cute...but maybe, if that was her boggart and she lied, she didn't say it was on purpose because she'd think everybody would think she liked harry, when in reality she only thought of him as a good friend.
Lupin couldn't have picked up and *vibes* in class about these 'feelings' because hermione was always so busy giving answers. there is no mention of flirting."

Fred: I didn't mention flirting so I figure that is for someone else's post.
RE: coverup, yeah that's exactly the implication. No vibe needed on Lupin's part according to this theory. Per my earlier post, Lupin [& everyone else in class] would have actually seen Hermione's boggart but with his permission if Hermione used the time-turner, she could have brought Lupin back with her, repeated the class & with his knowledge been given a pass from facing the boggart. She's the only one aside from Harry to be given a pass & with absolutely no explanation as to why, as I mentioned. Once the time-turner had been used here, Hermione would have had to completely cover it up, as would Lupin, and if she faced the same boggart during DADA, she would have had to lie about what it was regardless of whether she beat it or got spooked. It's just a theory but I've heard no good reason why it couldn't be at least possible

Originally posted by snitch14 (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?postid=454584#post454584))
mel:
you'r saying if JK would have been foreshadowing H/Hr we would see Harry's different opinion about Hermione. Well, what if it's just Hermione who likes Harry? And Ron likes Hermione. Harry is in the middle, isn't he...
Please refer to explanations (1)-(4) in this post (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?postid=454121#post454121). :) The evidence people present for a H/Hr ship just doesn't convince me. IMO, there is no need to go further than a deep friendship to explain Hermione's actions.

Originally posted by Snivelly Snape (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?postid=455533#post455533))
I didn't like Harry and Cho together. Is it just me, or do I not see Harry being with anyone else at school? I hated the way Cho was acting! She just seemed kinda desperate for attention~ very annoying.
I totally see the possibility of H/no one at the end of the series, and I would be perfectly fine with it. Sure, he has crushes and all that, but with all he has and will be going through, he may not have the time or the energy. I'm not sure if that's where Rowling is headed, given some of the things she says in interviews, but I still think it's possible.

And as for Cho, I think she just served as his first crush/kiss and that's the end of it. I don't completely blame her for acting the way she did (losing someone close to you is quite devastating, and girls often deal with it by crying openly and talking with people), but she obviously is not ready for another relationship. Harry's crush on her was superficial, like many have already said, so if he does have a relationship in future books I think it will be much deeper. I wouldn't be surprised if Cho has a very minimal role in books 6/7.

evaluna re: your theory about Hermione's boggart
It's just a theory but I've heard no good reason why it couldn't be at least possible.

Of course it's possible. Whenever JKR leaves something unexplained, anything is possible. It could be that Lupin just felt Hermione's answer was enough for him, and didn't think she needed to practice. It could be that she stepped out of line and purposely stayed back because she was afraid of what she might see. It could be that a glitch in her Time Turner transported Hermione to a parallel universe when it was her turn, so she wasn't there to take it, and no one noticed she was gone. And while she was in the parallel universe she saw a future where she and Harry are married, and realized they are destined to be! And when she was transported back, she sees Harry in a new light, and finds that she has been in love with him all along!! Points to the H/Hr ship!!!

Seem unlikely? Well, it's possible, right? There's nothing that says it didn't happen. But then, there's nothing that says it did. ;)

Even if Lupin did exempt her because he knew what her boggart was, we have no reason to believe it was a dead Harry. Perhaps JKR just forgot. :D

The problem with all the shippers is that no one knows what JKR plans for Hermione. However, when I compaire what others and myself have found about the relationships betwen the now group of six. I see the H/HR ship happening more then the R/HR ship. As far as the rest I see G/Nev and R/LL. I have posted here many times about some of my theories. When you look objectively at the now massing ideas of who will go with whom, I still see the H/HR ship being the likelyist. The defenders of the R/HR ship are just not strong enough. Even though both sets of Ideas can be viewed from different angles, I doubt we will know anything untill Hermione makes her move. Oh how we love to speculate.

the thing with the r/hr shippers is that hermione is mature. and she's matured even more in book 5 whereas ron has pretty much stayed where he is. and the reason that they argue so much is because ron is so far behind hermione, she sees things from a different light, one that is not childish and whimsickle, and ron...still thinks that snape is the bad guy every time something goes wrong, get's ridiculously giggly over harry kissing cho and flipps out over hr/k and g/mc & dt, showing that the kid is not at all ready for a relationship. plus, hermione seems content with krum. she's probably the type of girl who will always need an older guy to be on the same page with her mentally, because she is so clever and smart and whatnot. krum makes a good match in that aspect. whether or not that will last, I don't know, but I don't think that this childish i'm-going-to-pick-on-you-cause-i-like-you thing holds up anymore now that they are past that part of their childhood. if ron does like hermione (maybe he does?) then he needs to grow up. A LOT.

MEL:
"It could be that Lupin just felt Hermione's answer was enough for him, and didn't think she needed to practice. It could be that she stepped out of line and purposely stayed back because she was afraid of what she might see. It could be that a glitch in her Time Turner transported Hermione to a parallel universe when it was her turn, so she wasn't there to take it, and no one noticed she was gone. And while she was in the parallel universe she saw a future where she and Harry are married, and realized they are destined to be! And when she was transported back, she sees Harry in a new light, and finds that she has been in love with him all along!! Points to the H/Hr ship!!!
...
Even if Lupin did exempt her because he knew what her boggart was, we have no reason to believe it was a dead Harry. Perhaps JKR just forgot"
-------------------------
We're all entitled to our opinion. The last part of your rebuttal sounds a little silly, but I realise it was intended to do. In all seriousness while we clearly don't know exactly what Hermione saw, it is glaring that she got off for no reason we know of. She was in class so parallel universe is out... and IMO I really don't think JKR would overlook something like this. She makes a big deal out of Harry getting off [it's written of course from his POV], but we hear why, and Lupin's response involves Voldemort. We don't hear why Hermione gets off, and that's suspicious. I'll say no more.

we know everybody else's boggart vision, why not hermione? though, she wanted to take a crack at the boggart. that didn't mean that lupin purposley made her not take a turn

Originally posted by tree guardian (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?postid=456275#post456275))
Did Hermione kiss both Ron and Harry before the first Quidditch match in the chapter named the Lion and and the Serpent? I was only aware of Hermione kissing Ron on the cheek. She did turn to Harry but the whole thing was left hanging so I am so not sure if she did.

It wouldn't make much difference to me if she did kiss Harry on the cheek I just want clarification. :)

*edit*Please someone answer this question....I see no proof in the book that she did kiss Harry on the cheek too, but I see some posters saying the kiss happen. Maybe its the way they interpreted JKRs writing but are they right?

She klissed harry too, I remember thinking, aw thats so cute, harry didn't react while ron did touching his cheek like that in disbeleif. Fred said though that Ron was far less mature than hermione and as more childish? Well I don't know it could be a good balance between them. Opposites do attract! Plus you aren't giving Ron enough credit here! He has matured so much, maybe it doesn't really strike that he has but he has. I would look up the examples, nbut my copy is out of my hands. And have you ever noticed how hermione always knows whats going on in Rons mind? GOF he's Jealous. OotP having Fred and george gone will take off alot of pressure. I can just see those two together, It's like such a sweet romance in my mind. And they have spent alot of time together. :LOL; maybe they pulled a Ginny and Got together without telling harry! Naw. And besides if Harry were interested in Hermione, he wouldn't be so BOARD wen they're hanging out just the two of them I also hate Cho and Harry together. Now that Ginny is more mature, I'm begining to see them together too. as for the h/hr shippers, it came straight from JKR's mouth, Harry and hermione are PLUTONIC friends, meaning they aren't attracked to each other, they're just friends! ROn has a very firey personality (I think it has to do with the hair) And gets jelous and angry and expiriences for intense emotions. And when we've seen him act jealous one time it was over Hermione going to the ball with krum, it's so Ultra cute i could hardly contain myself. Before Gof I was thinking H/hr all the way but it has becaome =very obvious since GOF that harry and hermione have got something going on, just go look through JKR interviews and stuff. YEah harry needs hermione, but I need my friend britta, cause she keeps me focused and everything, is just well indisposable I guess. They'ree so just friends.

Thanks Adamslove for the tip. So I guess JKR wrote in the kiss on the Cheek from Hermione to Harry kind of like she wrote in the kiss of Cho to Harry, by leaving off words of detail because of the kiss's lack of significance.

I tell you, this does not please me. Even after reading the book twice I simply thought Hermione reguarded Harry with a nodd or something.

Oh, and would this be the first time Hermione ever kissed Ron? Which would be significant because JKR gave a detail reaction from Ron, ZeRo from Hermione, again! (Argh what is that girl thinking?), and zero reaction from Harry reguarding the kiss, but only Harry noticing Ron's awestruck reaction.

Hmmmmmm.

:)

Harry and Cho seemed perfect to me, if only both if them would be a bit more sensitive towards each other... It was a big dissapoint to me that they didn't sort each other out by the end but... Think, who else could Harry fance in any future books? Cho is his only matching pair

If Harry ends up with Ginny, the whole romance plot will seem to be anticlimatic or anti-romantic.

Why? Becuause, who can't see it coming?

It seems so blatently obvious, just like Ron and Hermione.
(Now, I am am not rooting for either of these couples, mind you, but facts are facts...)

(Another list if you will? I will, thank you.)

1.) Ginny's red hair--from book CoS all I could think of was Ginny looks like Harry's mother and has a bit of growing spunk

2.) GoF--Harry or Ron at least thought Harry should pair up with Ginny for the Yule Ball, but Ginny had accepted Neville's invite. However she would have loved to gone with Harry, of course.

3.) OotP--Ginny's mounting spunk, the mounting similarities to Harry and Ginny's interest, the similarities of past experience with Voldemort, and Ron seems to be rooting for them

4.) OotP--I was reminded of Ginny when Harry saw his mother Lily in the Pensive. Ginny stands up for people and defends them--so did Lily. Ginny's got a truck load of spunk and guts--so did Lily. Ginny seems to be good at charms--Lilly was great at charms. (This last point is debatable: Hermione is also GREAT at charms, but then again, she is great at almost everything.)

The only argument I can find is everyone is saying opposites attract, but Ginny and Harry aren't opposites, more like replicas of one another.

Imort quote--"Cho is his only matching pair"

I don't think so. Truth be told Harry seems to have his pick, which if that says anything it says he won't pick any. Cho was made to look like the wrong match for Harry in OotP to the max. And book 6 being Cho's last book, unless they get together on a SeRiOuS level Cho is going to "give up" on Harry. WHy? Because she is graduating, and she does not! seem the type to want to be tied down to an undergraduate boy, who has a truck load of real problems than she could imagine!

Yeah, the Cho thang is done and over with.

;D Have a good one!

Becuause, who can't see it coming?

I can't. It is not so blatantly obvious or else this thread would not be so many pages.

"1.) Ginny's red hair--from book CoS all I could think of was Ginny looks like Harry's mother and has a bit of growing spunk"

Harry himself has never described or thought of Ginny of looking like his mother. Besides, that would be a rather shallow reason for Harry to want Ginny....if he did want Ginny.

"2.) GoF--Harry or Ron at least thought Harry should pair up with Ginny for the Yule Ball, but Ginny had accepted Neville's invite. However she would have loved to gone with Harry, of course."

Yes, she would of but not Harry. Harry wanted to ask Cho and it was Ron who brought up Harry going with Ginny, not Harry himself.

"3.) OotP--Ginny's mounting spunk, the mounting similarities to Harry and Ginny's interest, the similarities of past experience with Voldemort, and Ron seems to be rooting for them"

There is also alot of similarities between Harry and Hermione to and also their differences actually compliment the others.

"4.) OotP--I was reminded of Ginny when Harry saw his mother Lily in the Pensive. Ginny stands up for people and defends them--so did Lily. Ginny's got a truck load of spunk and guts--so did Lily. Ginny seems to be good at charms--Lilly was great at charms. (This last point is debatable: Hermione is also GREAT at charms, but then again, she is great at almost everything.)"

I really, really hate the "pensieve" argument. It has been used to justify every ship and convincingly. There is simply too many variables. Too many positives, too many negatives. Again, you were reminded of Ginny, not Harry. If Harry is going to like Ginny, have him like Ginny for Ginny, not because she has red hair like his mother and not because she may be connected to Tom Riddle.

"The only argument I can find is everyone is saying opposites attract, but Ginny and Harry aren't opposites, more like replicas of one another."

Similarily we have tried that with Harry and Hermione. It is tougher than it sounds because they cannot get closer. The closer they get the more people believe them getting together is impossible which is.....frightening more than anything. Opposites do attract but they are not the only type of relationships out there.

To tell the truth, i am disgusted to think about Harry getting together woth Ginny. The fact that Cho is graduating should not bother neither of them, because they still have a whole year to make things up. Also, do not forget that equally to your argument about Cho being one year above Harry, I can say that Harry is one year above Ginny...

Personally, I'm surprised Cho even agreed to go anywhere with Harry. I mean, almost the enitre school thought that he was lying and probably killed Cedric. Wouldn't she, ebing cedric's girl and everything, be ready to blame anyone for his death? And Harry's jut right there for the blaming...but she really surpruised me by going as far as to kiss Harry...

By the way, how is a person suppposed to put a picture on her sig?

Originally posted by torylittle13 (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?postid=459519#post459519))
Personally, I'm surprised Cho even agreed to go anywhere with Harry. I mean, almost the enitre school thought that he was lying and probably killed Cedric. Wouldn't she, ebing cedric's girl and everything, be ready to blame anyone for his death? And Harry's jut right there for the blaming...but she really surpruised me by going as far as to kiss Harry...


Read the parts where Cho and Harry talk together, that may tell you something. Though I must admit, I am a bit surprised... But life is a weird thing, isn't it? Maybe there's something going on in Cho's head that will be revealed in the next books...

Original posted by Sone. Quote--Harry himself has never described or thought of Ginny of looking like his mother. Besides, that would be a rather shallow reason for Harry to want Ginny....if he did want Ginny.

--Shallow as it may be. It is an old age literary tatic called "Oedpidial Complex" derived by psychologist and the like from the Greek play Oedipus, if you will. I didn't make it up. And JKR being the writer that she is, I wouldn't be surprised if that is what she is up to.

There is a long post on Oedpidial Complexes somewhere on this thread past post 67, but it goes in brief: (cause I can't find it)

Hermione reminds Ron and Harry of Mrs. Weasly

Ginny reminds me the reader of Lilly Potter

Ginny could be a female rep. of the dominant woman in Neville's life, a meaning his grandmother.

(I don't like Oedpidial Complexes or "arguments" either but they are an option, and used often in literary and commercial works.

Originally posted by Sone. Quote--Harry himself has never described or thought of Ginny of looking like his mother. Besides, that would be a rather shallow reason for Harry to want Ginny....if he did want Ginny.

I know and that gives me hope because the book is from Harry's point of view, and if Harry never acknowledges this then fine by me.

Mind you, I am not for G/H or R/Hr ships.

Imort Do you honestly think at this point either Harry or Cho is interested in pursuing a long distance relationship? Cho who is going out into the Wizarding World to pursue her career, where she can meet rocking guys like Bill oor Charlie Weasly, (not saying she'll go for them--their probably out of her league).

One Classic part of any Highschool or middleschool relationship battle is the "let's break it off now, because I want to see what's out there routine"--mutually pulled by boys and girls alike. Cho has been written like that kind of person. She is the static "popular" girl with lousy friends and a hang up on an ex-boyfriend that rubs the wrong way on pursuing a relationship with her "second choice" guy. (I would say *"Everwood", anyone* but Cho is not a main well-rounded character like that girl on the show "Everwood. --I can't remember her name, but if you watch the show, you know who I am talking about.

;D Have a good one!

Shallow as it may be. It is an old age literary tatic called "Oedpidial Complex" derived by psychologist and the like from the Greek play Oedipus, if you will.


I am aware of the tactic. My only real point was that Harry has never described or ever acknowledged Ginny looking like his mother. I also do not think that is the reason that Harry would go out with Ginny in the first place.


Mind you, I am not for G/H or R/H ships.


Mind you, I do not care about being wrong, it is just what I see as well. I'm not trying to force things to fit anymore than you are. I see Harry and Hermione because I see them getting closer every book and I have my reasons. I just do not see Harry and Ginny warming up to each other.

I am not trying to argrue with you Sone, I am trying to say that I am on your side.

Well, I don't really know... I just made my position clear - I do think that Harry's girlfriend in thenext book will be Cho, and whether this true or not we will find out as soon as it comes out. We can make predictions, but they won't change much.

Regarding Harry's future romance:

a) What if his future "better half" has not yet been introduced?

b) What if he doesn't end up with anybody at all?

and

c_ Puh-lease, why does his future wife/gf have to be like his mother? Gag me with the Electra complex.

I did not sayand I am NOT saying Harry's future wife has to be with a girl like his mother. All I have said is that there is a pattern of HP female characters mirroring HP boy characters mothers or influences of female authority!

I don't like the idea either! okay. It was just something I had noticed!

I too think it is possible that Harry may not end up with anyone, as I have stated earlier. Hey, anything is possible.

BTW I boarded the H/Hr ship along time ago. (not that it really matters, but they serve really nice cocktails, so I couldn't resist) ;D

[i]Originally posted by Ennervate

c_ Puh-lease, why does his future wife/gf have to be like his mother? Gag me with the Electra complex.

OK i want to add my two cents to this part:

Having taken numerous sociology classes, and psychology classes, men and women alike look for, in their potential mates, similarities. What I mean is that I being femle, when looking for a mate tend to look for characterisitcs that remind me of my father: caregiver, protector, etc. Men when looking for a mate tend to look for characteristics that remind them of their mother: nice personality, looks nice, likes children... (I'm just picking characteristics from a hat here). The point is that we are not trying to marry our mother/father, but someone that gives us the same feelings of comfort, love and tenderness that our parents have given to us. Now it doesnt happen in every single relationship, but that tends to be the average or norm.

Also...I dont think that Harry will get with someone thats so much like his mother..because how could he possibly know? The only theings taht he learns about his mother is through other people. So I think that who he ends up with is open to anyone.

eh hem eh hem. I would liek to remind everyone, before this gets out of hand, we all need to take a small chill pill here before things get out of hand and Mods come swooping in to send us all to azkaban. Now remember things went crazy in the Romance thread in the great hall and had to be closed down? We don't want the same thing happening here. Remember everyones opinion is entileled to the, and it would be best not to but sentences like Puh leez and such. try not to knock other peoples "ships" even if you do not aggree with them.

alright not that Im done being diplomatic. I would like someone to put all the reasons they thinkj that harry and hermione should get together, because I see very little evidence towards it. There is more(as my friend Sarah would say it) "sexual tension" Between Ron and Hermione. I think that they compliment each other. I also think that the lack of a reaction from Harry when Hermione kissed him is evidence that they do not feel attrackted to each other. But when she kissed Ron, he was stuned and put his hand on his cheek (the cutest thing EVER if you ask my opinion) shows that it meant something too him, and that theres a bit of Chemistry too it. I do Admit though, that even though I would love to see harry and Ginny together, there hasn't been any evidence of harry liking her in that way but it still could happen.

Ok, here's some romance thoughts from a non-shipper!

First of all, might as well address canon: Harry and Cho.

I've made it perfectly clear that while i do NOT support a ship on HP i was against this one. I give JK kudos for handling it well, much to my surprise. I was annoyed by Cho when i first read the scenes but when i was reading the book a second time i understood more about why she was acting that way. Harry's insensitivity was pure inexperience and also the realisation that his idealistic view of Cho was in fact completely inaccurate only served to sour things further (like it or not, i often got the impression Cho is rather shallow - for instance, her thoughts on her Patronus were not about the fact that it might well save her life one day but about how pretty it was. Err, right). Much as i hate to tell anyone their ship is over (i went through that in another fandom and lets just say the naysayers were wrong, wrong, wrong!) i really can't see JK continuing it. In the end it was a very superficial relationship and it was made quite clear at the end that Harry at least was not interested in persuing it any further. I really don't see that changing over the summer.

Harry/Ginny: I'm becoming more and more convinced that Harry is going to be solo by the end of these books, which i'm perfectly fine with. It makes a lot of sense when you think about the fact that Harry has seen so many people he loves die - it tends to breed the message that anyone he truly comes to care about will be in instant danger and might well put him off the idea of a serious girlfriend. Anyway, enough prattle, i could see some prospects for this ship happening before but now, it's looking shakey. Ginny's moved on, really matured and become her own person - a person who doesn't seem that obsessed with dating Harry Potter anymore. On the other hand, she could simply be waiting for a time when Harry will 'notice her' in a very different way to before. Incidentally, i hope they do more about the effects of them both being 'posessed' by Voldie, i saw something interesting there.

Harry/Hermione: I think the fact that she was the one trying to advise him about Cho pretty much proved that this is and always will be a platonic relationship. If you really liked someone romatically you wouldn't get invovled in their relationship problems. Hermione, one could argue, encouraged it. Not the action of someone madly in love with him.

Hermione/Ron: This seems to have fizzled out as well, although Ron's temper tantrum about her writing to Krum brought back memories of the Yule Brawl. Maybe this is just me, but i think the attraction here is very one sided. Hermione has given no real evidence that she reciporates his feelings.

Harry/Luna: One could read something in to their shared moment about whom they have seen die. However, i just saw as to people comforting each other with their own experiences.

Ron/Luna: {:::crickets:::}

I think we need to remember that not every living girl who knows a guy end up with him. There are some parts very much parts in this serie who will stay friends and to that I count R/Hr and H/G. Simply because in OotP was no developing in it. If you understand developing that a girl is over or realise that the guy isn´t interest as developing I´m with you but so far its pretty much friendly. There isn´t a moment where I ask, wait why is Harry thinking at Ginny or hearing her voice. And there isn´t a part that Ginny seems to be jealousy at Cho. To all off it its not a part where I can read Hermione likes Ron back. But who knows everything is possible. But I truly hope Ginny has an own life without to wait 3 or 4 years for Harry. Thats sound really poor.

Originally posted by FlyingPhoenix (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?postid=460045#post460045))
I think we need to remember that not every living girl who knows a guy end up with him. There are some parts very much parts in this serie who will stay friends and to that I count R/Hr and H/G. Simply because in OotP was no developing in it. If you understand developing that a girl is over or realise that the guy isn´t interest as developing I´m with you but so far its pretty much friendly. There isn´t a moment where I ask, wait why is Harry thinking at Ginny or hearing her voice. And there isn´t a part that Ginny seems to be jealousy at Cho. To all off it its not a part where I can read Hermione likes Ron back. But who knows everything is possible. But I truly hope Ginny has an own life without to wait 3 or 4 years for Harry. Thats sound really poor.

I'm a tad confuzzeled here, anyway. The thing is that with Hermione we have no clue. Idon't even think she like Krum all too much. The probleme with Hermione is that she's so difficult to read, while Ron with his firey temper and jealousousness are so transparent it's so adorably cute! With hermione we need to look for the subtlest of hints, the kind that I'd pull towards a guy I like, unfortunetly he is so absolutely cluessless that even the biggest clue is impossible for him to read, and unless you flat out tell him, he will not notice. So we got to think subtle hints. Girls look at your subtle tactics and see if any apply to hermione!

Personally, I really hope that the friendship remains plutonic between all, well, now 6 of them. But especially between Harry, Ron and Hermione. I, like FlyingPhoenix, don't see the story being interrupted by any sexual tension between those three. There are moments when I stop and question things, like Hermione giving both boys kisses--but then I think that I kiss my guy friends on the cheeck or whatever and it means nothing other than what is it inteded to be: friendly. I especially don't think that the whole Ron and Hermione arguing because they like eachother bit makes sense. Maybe in year 3 or 4 or whatever, but really, they're 15--that's something you grow out of by now and you start to treat the person you like with more affection and whatnot, instead of picking on them. And if it really is that Ron shows Hermione his affection by picking fights with her, then Hermione, at least, isn't showing the same kind of affection back to him--she gets very vehement in her agruments and annoyed at Ron's stupidity a lot.
Why can't girls and guys just be friends--must there always be some underlying love when this occurs? Comming from a girl who has a lot of guys as friends, this isn't always the case. Sometimes a friend is just a friend, no matter what the sex is.

I agree - i was just looking at the options earlier. Like i said, i'm a none shipper so i'm not really fussed. And i used to have lots of male friends too who were just that (despite what others thought). In fact, in my experience the people i've fancied have been outside my friendship circle. *shrug* but that's just me!

Same here, She's Crafty! I've always eyes up the people I didn't know like I knew my guy friends. That's why there was always a distinction between the two (boyfriend and boy friend), because you know your friends as one way and that's a whole different relationship, especially when you're 15. It is true that some of the best relationships are founded in friendship, but when you're 15, you're not looking at the kid you've known for 5 years--you're going to be like Harry and looking at somebody who's different from them, who's attractive, who's a mystery to you, and who is probably not at ALL like your friends of the opposite sex.

I don't know if it was posted before (after all, there are 39 pages!!), but hare is my opinion about the romances:

Harry/Cho: I'm quite sure that it didn't work out because she was not the right person to Harry, I mean she is cool and pretty but she needs to control her emotions. And it could have happened just to make Harry understand more about girls. I think that he was being prepared for something more intense, like love not passion, and I bet it's with Ginny

Ron/Hermione: They didn't appear too much "in love" in the book but there's definitely something going on. Ron seems to like Hermione, there are proofs of that all over GoF, and in this but he became very angry when he found out that Hermione was still in contact with Krum. I think that from now on we have to see if she cares about him in a different way, my bet is that Luna will help it, as she kinda likes Ron, Hermione will be "in danger" of losing him.

Bill/Fleur: I hope we will see more of these two in 6 or 7. They are so nice!!

Ginny/the two: This affairs were just to make Ginny grow up. She is clearly showing that she isn't a child anymore, maybe it will call Harry's attention... who knows?

I like the way that romance was showed in OoP, like part of our lives. Harry Potter is not a romantic story, it's about life, the life of a young boy who, like everyone else, have strange feelings, like passion and love. I also like when he said that the kiss was wet, I thought that too when I first kissed.

I finally found the words about why I would hate a H/G pairing. It is because it is more about Ginny than it is about Harry.

Well, I'm not so sure H/G can happen. [dun go jumpin down my throats H/G shippers, PLEASE!]


for one thing, ginny was the only one that was interested in harry in a romantic way

for another, i dun see any signs of harry even hinting anything toward H/G. people just 'assume' that if R/Hr will happen, that leaves ginny for harry.

and even though harry noticed that ginny become more mature and grown-up, he still thinks of her as his best friend's sister...


though ron is all for it. i wonder what's going on his head :D

Its nice that nonshipper do agree with me but maybe I told you that I´m for H/Hr. How you can see in my mostly kinda strange post. I do think that R/Hr won´t happen and H/G won´t happen thats what I get if I read OotP. I mean we have H/G where Ginny isn´t anymore after Harry. Fine now she can go on. Than R/Hr well there have to be one ship which won´t happen because if JKR did write that every little crush gonna be happen than kids might think life is like that. Life isn´t like that you don´t get what you want and if R/HR and H/G happen than its say you get what you want but this serie isn´t like that, is it? Harry wanted life with Sirius, he want be prefect, he want be Chos boyfriend, He want be a normal boy, want be a real family. Don´t want nightmares, don´t want be hated and don´t want murder someone. Do he get all that? No.

Originally posted by tree guardian (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?postid=456275#post456275))
Did Hermione kiss both Ron and Harry before the first Quidditch match in the chapter named the Lion and and the Serpent? I was only aware of Hermione kissing Ron on the cheek. She did turn to Harry but the whole thing was left hanging so I am so not sure if she did.
I don't think she did. I think she pecked Ron, then acknowledged Harry. If Hermione had kissed Harry, don't you think Harry would have noticed, or JKR would have let us know? Even though we weren't there for the actual Harry/Cho kiss, we know for sure it happened because of the long conversation about it between the trio.

Though I don't think she kissed Harry, it is possible that she did, but Harry completely ignored it. Maybe the important thing was Ron's reaction to Hermione's kiss, so JKR didn't bother mentioning Harry's. But I think the former scenario is more likely: Hermione didn't kiss Harry.

Originally posted by Ennervate (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?postid=459705#post459705))
Regarding Harry's future romance:

a) What if his future "better half" has not yet been introduced?
I guess that could happen, but Rowling would have a lot of character development to do. Cho was in two books before Harry got together with her, and that turned out to be just a starter relationship that didn't last. His next will probably be deeper, so the person he ends up with will have to be much more complex and developed - that takes time. And I'm not sure, but JKR might have said in an interview that Harry's future girlfriend will have been in all the books. I have no idea if she actually said this or not though.

b) What if he doesn't end up with anybody at all?
I've actually considered this, and I wouldn't mind it and think its possible with the kind of person he is and the kind of life he's had. His experience is very different from most peoples', and the more extraordinary things that happen to him, the more isolated he becomes from his peers. It would take someone as strong and complex as himself to understand and appreciate him. Also, after losing so many of his loved ones, he will be very reluctant to open his heart to another person, for fear of suffering another loss.

However, JKR has said that she wants her characters to be real teenagers, and to have the strong feelings that go with it. We have already seen evidence of this in GoF and OotP, and I think she will take it further in future books. Also, if what she said about Harry ending up with someone who has been in all the books is true, she's confirming that he will have a girlfriend. But like I said, don't know if it's true.

c_ Puh-lease, why does his future wife/gf have to be like his mother? Gag me with the Electra complex.
Potterfreak24 (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?postid=459753#post459753) said what I was going to say. :) But I'd like to add that this tendency to look for similar characteristics as parents is largely unconscious. People don't size up their mate thinking "Hmm, he doesn't have xyz like my dad does." The traits simply conjure good feelings for them. There is evolutionary reason for this too, that goes beyond the unconscious and is instinctual. Men and women are attracted to each other because that is what allows the human species to survive. Way deep down, we are looking for a person who will be the best father/mother; someone that will contribute strong, healthy, happy additions to the human race. Most often, the more someone resembles a person's view of the "ideal" parent (which is often based on their own parents), the more attractive they become.

Now.

I've been rereading Goblet of Fire. I hadn't read it in years, but OotP made me want to reread the whole series, back to back, start to finish. Anyway, yesterday I got to the Yule Brawl. When I read it the first time, I had never fathomed H/Hr, so I took the scene as a showing of emotion that confirmed Hermione liking Ron. But reading it again, while Ron's feelings are obvious, Hermione's are still quite ambiguous in the scene. We have no idea what the problem is that she is offering a "solution" to. In order to understand the true meaning of what Hermione is saying, we need to know what she is responding to, what was said before. But JK only gives us the last bit. Evil woman. :evil:

I guess what I'm saying is, I'm really not sure about R/Hr anymore. I'm sure that Ron likes Herm, but completely bewildered about who Herm likes. I don't think she will end up with Harry, because I found many instances in GoF where they seem mismatched (for instance, when Harry/Ron aren't speaking and Harry is hanging out exclusively with Herm, he is quite bored and says Hermione just isn't the same as Ron. Harry needs someone a little more light-hearted and fun). And even though she seems to have a relationship with Krum, in OotP (and perhaps even in GoF) it seems to lack that certain "passion." I think it's turned into a friendship. He's someone she can talk to who will hang on her every word.

So anyway... I'm jumping ship. :smile:

P.S. Are there no K/Hr ships?

i dun many people are convinced with K/Hr. it doesn't seem likely. they're just penpals. and when hermione and krum went to the ball, krum said she kept ramming on about harry. now, if she likes krum, what's all the enthusiasm about harry? and note, not ron

I definitely see a Ron and Hermione relationship. First of all, there are a lot of instances in which Ron says, "You're just like my mother!"
That just says Hermione fusses over Ron and cares about him. I see Hermione and Ron as being Arthur and Molly in a way.

Molly and Hermione both get very bright eyed when they are excited. Think about this, Molly is known for knitting sweaters for the family. Hermione starts knitting elf hats and socks!

Also, have you noticed that all of the Weasley brothers are very clever? Even Fred and George, although they were never Prefects or Headboys, are very smart in inventing pranks and things.

Hermione is very clever.

It makes me wonder if Mrs. Weasley was like Hermione when she was her age. Her "smart" genes could have passed on to her sons. I can definitely see Hermione and Ron as being a married couple just like Mrs. Weasley and Arthur.

Besides, Mrs. Weasley likes to follow the rules. So does Hermione. (ex. Mrs. Weasley is strongly against breaking or bending around the law when Arthur bewitched that car)

Also, Lucius is Arthur's rival just like Draco is Ron's rival.

I REALLY think Hermione and Ron is a definite couple.

I'm not sure about the Molly/Hermione parallel. I guess there are some similarities, but not ones that would lead me to believe Hermione is a young Molly. I guess because I see Hermione as growing up to be a career woman, not a homemaker who fusses over 7 kids. And I don't think Molly would be quite as studious as Hermione, she's not a know-it-all. And those are some of Hermione's defining characteristics, IMO.

writer007

the way you say it, it does seem like a definite.


BUT, is anyone SURE [100%] that Hermione likes ron as he likes her? yes, they have qualities like ron's parents, but hermione is very vague on her feelings


the bit about her worrying over ron a lot like his mother, well, can't you say the same for harry? i honestly think she gets more worried over harry in any case..

I don't think that Hermione likes Ron as more than a friend. Sometimes I even wonder if she likes him as just a friend. She deserves better. Ron needs to majorly grow up.

Luna may have had a crush on Ron. I wouldn't mind if they got together.

I'm starting to notice that Hermione might have feelings for Harry, but I don't think he has conscious feelings for her yet. I still like the idea of H/G for some reason, but if that doesn't happen I would like to see H/Hr and N/G. I really think Neville might have feelings for Ginny.

I'm pretty sure my feelings will change though. After all, I used to be Hr/K when I first read GoF, then I was R/Hr and H/C after rereading it, then I swore off shipping, and now I'm back to shipping. I guess I can't make up my mind.

neville likes either ginny or hermione.


i kinda like the idea of luna making a move on ron, i think he'll be bewildered though. lol


hermione seems to be annoyed by ron a lot of the times. i have seen that hermione kinda starts to get closer to harry, though harry doesn't understand anything as he didn't even understand cho's behavior


i'm not sure if hermione realized her feelings yet, but it's kinda hard to tell

As much as pairing up romance couples is, sometimes it just seems too limited.

Harry has had a pretty shabby child/teen hood. One would think if he survives the final book, he'd want to travel and finally really have some fun. Maybe like Sirius, meeting that particular someone or anyone will not be an interest or concern of Harrys. Living the bacherlor life can be fun, and he will have the money, skills, and connections to really have a good time.

Harry should definitely take a break from his lifesize-rollercoaster and reflect on that which he has discovered about himself and his family, and try to make sure he is aware of all his living relatives, too.

And if you consider the Muraders only one out of the four got married, and though I'm sure all four considered companionship three were not too interested at their young age to be worried with such things. Wormtail was too busy schleping loyalties between V and DD, Lupin was dealing with his life crisis as well as being apart of the Order and Sirius was being Sirius(total hottie). They were also in a war zone. So that probably stalled things too.

Originally posted by mel. Quote--I guess what I'm saying is, I'm really not sure about R/Hr anymore. I'm sure that Ron likes Herm, but completely bewildered about who Herm likes. I don't think she will end up with Harry, because I found many instances in GoF where they seem mismatched (for instance, when Harry/Ron aren't speaking and Harry is hanging out exclusively with Herm, he is quite bored and says Hermione just isn't the same as Ron. Harry needs someone a little more light-hearted and fun). And even though she seems to have a relationship with Krum, in OotP (and perhaps even in GoF) it seems to lack that certain "passion." I think it's turned into a friendship. He's someone she can talk to who will hang on her every word.

I see what you mean about Harry's feelings toward Hermione. Not that it says too much at his age of 14years, but time is running out with only two books left.

Originally posted by tree guardian (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?postid=463820#post463820))
I see what you mean about Harry's feelings toward Hermione. Not that it says too much at his age of 14 years, but time is running out with only two books left.
True. But that's why I think Ginny is a prospect. I think there's something to be said for the Voldemort connection, they both have a part of him inside themselves. And Ginny is getting closer to the group, joining the Gryffindor Quidditch team and helping Harry fight Voldie in OotP. Her character has developed over the 5 books, she's becoming more confident, a force to be reckoned with. I don't think Harry likes her that way now, but he could very well wake up to it as Ginny becomes a more prominent character.

But I'm not shipping anything. If I support H/G with that kind of evidence, the same kind of evidence could support H/Hr. Perhaps I'm biased. I don't see H/Hr, but like the thought of H/G. I don't know.

i picture harry as being with a girl who is really smart, is a lot of fun and can take his mind off of voldy and evil for a fleeting moment, and will try her best to understand his life and his situations, even if she cant fully comprehend because she has never been in his predicaments. hermione is too stern for harry. and i wish i knew more about ginny. she seems like a prospect, but not a likely match to me. cho is too depressing! i know that her boyfriend died. but she needs to get a grip.

i was kind of hoping that as they are FIFTEEN, there would have been more involved relationships for ALL of the main characters. maybe next time. and by involved i dont mean or expect sexually or anything. i just mean more intense emotionally. harry seems very fragile in this department. maybe hes not ready.

you'd think that at least at 16 he can be more ready for romantic relationships. he didn't know how to act with cho. it was very awckward. he didn't no anything bout her. he needs someone that can understand his position and his worries.


i'd really like to no more bout ginny, i mean, we know more bout fred and george rather than her

The only thing that makes you more ready for relationships is experience with them. That's why relationships when you are young are usually flawed and fleeting, because they are just practice for the real ones you have later on. I bet if he met another girl like Cho, he would deal with her better, now that he knows what to expect and has some experience.

If he met another girl like Cho, he'd run in the other direction.

I can see Ron and Hermione as a couple. A lot of details hint that a relationship might form in the 6th or 7th books.

What details? In GoF there are a few but these were struck dead in book 6 almost completly. Im not ruling it out, just after book six dont see it. Ron, is completly after Hr. Hopefully Luna will put on some charm and steer Ron away from Hermione.

I think Harry and Hermione is the best couple either that or Ginny and Harry..... Rons gf mmmmhhhmm... I could care less.. ive been likeing ron less and less i dono why....

Yes, Ron seem to be drifting further and further away, in OotP he seemed like som funny sidekick to me. He didn't really help Harry that much.

ok there are two quotes I have from the book, the Raincoast edition, showing that ron and hermione like each other.

'"Good luck Ron," said hermione, standingon tiptoe ad kissing him on the cheek."and You Harry-"' K this is stil lapart of my first quote but anyway, it implies that hermione kissed both Ron and Harry, but desn't exactly say it so she might not have, anbd if she didn't then it shows that she likes ron anyway the rest of the quote
"Ron seemed to come to himself slightly as they walked back accross the great hall. He touched the spot on his face where hermione had kissed him, looking puzzled, as though he wasn't quite sure what just happened. He seemed to distracted to notice much around him...."
Well Ron obviously likes hermione it's etched all over that paragraph. He touched his cheek, was dazed and confused. obvious signs that he likes hermione.
My next quote is very subtle about hermiones feelings for Ron, witch, as girls, we tend to be very subtle about this type of thing.
'"Harry, you're worse than Ron... well no, you're not," she sighed, as Ron himself came slumping into the Hall....'
That sounds exactly like how I talk about my friend Brendon when I talk abouit how clueless he is abou me liking him. I think I've tolled im, my fried has tolled him, and he still doesn't beleive it. She had jus been talking about Cho with HArry, explaining it all to him. So yes Hermione is sending subtle hints to Ron about how she feels, but she's frusterated that he is not picking up on it.

Yeah I made a long post about that passage I think in the other romance thread. That one does it for me. R/Hr all the way :D

Another thing I would like to point out...(Don't bite my head off H/Hr shippers, I do lean toward this ship's menality, however couldn't help noticing...)

Harry views Hermione and Ron as a pairing, a unit....

Once when Hermy and Ron were arguing, they reminded Harry of Mr. and Mrs. Weasly. Then when Hermy looked to Ron for backup in trying to convince Harry not to go to Umbridges office during the 2nd and final Weasly twin prank "Harry was reminded irresistibly of Mrs. Weasly appealing to her husband druing Harry's first dinner in Grimmauld Place."--page 658.

I guess my point is how does Harry view Hermione? It appears that Harry views Hermione to be quite similar to Mrs. Weasly, as do others. I would say this is something we know. Even though Harry has never seemed to really think about his opinion or feelings toward any other girl but Cho, it would be foolish of us, at this point to try and believe that Harry hasn't developed some opinion of one of his best friends. Whether he is thinking about it conciously or not. An opinion seems to be given by the author.

I'm not saying his opinion can't change, but it does seem to have developed a bit. Harry has seem Hermione and Ron as a very possible unit ever since Ron's blatent feelings dawned on Harry. Again it seems reinforced at the begining of the book, as Harry contemplates his lonlieness. Ron and Hermione were together at #12 and where seperate from Harry. Harry would catch them talking together about him, and throwing odd glances in his direction. Again, I know this is all circumstantial but until something happens to give Harry a different line of thought, his view of Ron and Hermione as a unit will only increase.

I am not saying this is fact. Because I do think there are instances when Harry doubts Hermione returns mutal feelings for Ron, but not enough doubt that Harry no longer sees them as a unit.

;D Have a good one.

I don't know if this has been posted before ( pls bear with me, I joined just last night, and my eyes are watering from the intensive reading of many threads), but has anyone noticed a similarity between Hermione and Lily, standing up for helpless guys? So, if Hermione is a bit like Lily, and Harry is very similar to his father....
It isn't something I root for, but I wonder if the similarity was given as a clue by JKR as to what will happen in the future.

Originally posted by Alex Black (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?postid=476093#post476093))
I don't know if this has been posted before ( pls bear with me, I joined just last night, and my eyes are watering from the intensive reading of many threads), but has anyone noticed a similarity between Hermione and Lily, standing up for helpless guys? So, if Hermione is a bit like Lily, and Harry is very similar to his father....
It isn't something I root for, but I wonder if the similarity was given as a clue by JKR as to what will happen in the future.
The thing is, the same could be said for Ginny, especially the new Ginny of OotP. I think she stands up for the underdog even more than Hermione. Hermione is really just standing up for her friends... and house elves. :p So is this a clue for H/Hr or H/G? Who knows.

Well i really believe that there will be some harry/luna romance going on. It seems JKR was just foreshawdowing that a little too much. And i think luna and harry share more in common than what we might know about.

I'm sure that in the end Ron will end up with fleur delaceur, Harry with Cho, Hermione with Viktor, and Ginny with Neville.

Those are all lame. Really, I doubt we'll even see Viktor again, maybe we'll catch a glimpse of Fleur. Harry is definetely over Cho, or did you not read the last chapter? And Ginny is nice to Neville, but I dont think she would ever be interested in him that way

That was all? I just finished reading it and I'm just a little disappointed. I remember reading about Rowling promising "raging hormones" in Book Five. I can remeber being fifteen/sixteen and I have to say that a couple of tantative kisses or pecks and a few jealous comments (from Ron, mostly) is not exactly what I'd call "raging".
Or maybe she was tlaking about Book Six...

I didn't really see the "raging hormones" either.

Nah, no raging hormones were spotted on my watch, anywho...I really dont agree with the Harry Luna thing i mean yeah it is possible, but i dunno maybe its just me.....i would really like to see Ginny & Neville hook up, i think thats a relationship that could last!!!

nope none on this end either. But hey these are childrens Books, As for who fleur will be with *cough*Bill *cough* Something abut him taking an office job so he could be near her or something? Too cute of a couple Delphinus what your evidence backing this up? I mean come on, they're the first people these guys have ever liked (except hermione, that was lockhart) Not very many people ever end up with who they first like.

Who cares who Harry ends up with for a girlfriend? I mean, we can't stress over who he will end up with when we're trying to figure out who is going to live through the 2nd war. Besides, JK Rowling said that whoever Harry ends up with hasn't been spotted yet, so it's definitely not someone we've met before, or someone we think he's going to end up with. As for Harry/Ginny. Just because he's close with the Weasleys doesn't mean he's going to marry their youngest daughter.

Not stressing just chatting ;D

I think it is very likely that Krum will be the Book 6 DADA teacher. I don't think he will be a love interest but I think sparks will fly, mostly from Ron on the matter.

We will see Krum again. There was more to that whole letter bit. If Hermione was really writing to Krum, he knows all about Hogwarts need for new DADA teacher, and knowing Hermione "great" ideas (gag) :D, she may have sugested (even if on the off chance) that he should apply for the job/or that he would even make a better teacher than Umbridge, (but who wouldn't really). Anyboo, I think Krum will be thrown in book 6 (as a wrench in the already malfunctioning system, if nothing else), to really help push the subject of adolecent hormones and love interest.

;D have a good one.

Originally posted by writer007 (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?postid=478941#post478941))
Besides, JK Rowling said that whoever Harry ends up with hasn't been spotted yet, so it's definitely not someone we've met before, or someone we think he's going to end up with.
When/Where did she say this? Because I heard she said the person Harry ends up with will be someone who's been in all the books.

Originally posted by tree guardian (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?postid=479059#post479059))
I think it is very likely that Krum will be the Book 6 DADA teacher.
Don't you think he'd be a bit busy playing Quidditch, the only thing he seems to be good at? And he's a bit young to be teaching, don't you think? However, Ron's **** would definitely hit the fan if Hermione and Krum were together at Hogwarts. Teacher/student rules would come into play too... But I just don't see it happening.

well i will say that it was fine buy i had excpected a bit more, she said the herimone would be raging and i didnt really see that

Ginny relastionship was to break out more of her charachter, like harry had said before this she never really spoke to harry.

As far as Harry and Cho it was cute that he got his first kiss, thoguh Cho was a bit annoying :'( :'( :'( all the time, i understand why , because of Cedric, but did she ever think it was hard for harry and he kinda of want to put it behind him. Also harry have the attiude of not understand women, which is what most young guys feel i would think (Huh GUys on the board?)

i will say i had thought there would be some sorat of talk b.t Siruis and harry about Girls, that would have been cool to see.

as far as hermimone and Ron, i did see something but it was typcial only when She mention Viktor Kurm, then you could see he would get jelaous, i has excpet them to hook up in this book though

Quote from OotP (p. 866, American Ed.): "Well, I always thought he was a bit of an idiot," he [Ron] said, prodding his queen forward toward Harry's quivering castle. "Good for you. Just choose someone--better--next time." He cast Harry an oddly furtive look as he said it.

I'm an H/G shipper, so I hope this is a sign of future romance.. Maybe it's just me, but the one part about Ron prodding the queen towards the castle sounded symbolic, with Ginny being the queen and Harry the castle. Did that jump out at anyone else or did English class rub off on me too much? lol.
Overall, I was expecting more romance in OotP, though I suppose I shouldn't be too disappointed. I write romance fanfics sometimes, so I have to remind myself that it's not the basis of the series! As for Harry and Cho, I never saw it working out. At least the little bits when she wasn't furious with him were cute.

I think Harry-Ginny seems probable at some point, but I wouldn't like it. So far we haven't seen much of her personality. Same goes for Cho, she was allright I guess, but what is she really like? Except for being broken about Cedric, naturally, Harry didn't get to know her much so I don't know how I feel about her.

But Harry and Luna? This might happen.
It's obvious that Ron likes Hermione, but maybe she doesn't feel the same way, even though I think she is very aware of his feelings. I'm such a fool for teen-romance, so I'm hoping for something...

I liked Cho and Harry dating (if I may use that word in this case), but I expected a bit more romance in this book... Myabe I expected more than it should, I don't know, but I wanted to see Hermione and Ron in a new light. They fought even more than in the last book.

What makes me believe that they will end up together in the next or the seventh book: when we saw James and Lily in the pensieve and how Lily 'hated' him... it reminded me of Hermione and Ron. Maybe, in the ned, the two even get married! :)

Ginny dating 2 guys - first I was shocked that she had a boyfriend before any of the main caharcters. (If Hermione didn't date Krum... Even if she did, she never really said that in those words.) All in the same I liked that she got over Harry.

I was dissapointed that we didn't see any romance or even a hint of romance between Ron and Hermione. After Gof and the whole Krum episode, I thought it was really obvious that Hermione and Ron would get together! They did argue a lot, which could be a sign of romance, and Hermione did kiss Ron on the cheeck, but I was expecting more.

I was dissapointed that Harry went on a date with CHo and kissed her (I never really liked Cho, but now I really dislike her!). I'm just glad that it didn't work out and that he got her out of his system. I just don't think that Cho is the right girl for Harry.

I was also hoping to see some more of Victor Krum, I've always thought he was an awesome character.

I thought it was interesting that we saw a little thing between Bill and Fleur. I wonder if Fleur will play a bigger part in later books?

I like Ginny more now, but I still don't think that she should go out with Harry. But it was interesting that Ginny had two boyfriends in this book (she's becoming quite the hearbreaker, isn't she?). I would actually like to see Harry date Lavender or Parvati (I don't know why, but I think that would be cool).

Originally posted by boxingkitty (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?postid=479579#post479579))
I'm an H/G shipper, so I hope this is a sign of future romance.. Maybe it's just me, but the one part about Ron prodding the queen towards the castle sounded symbolic.
No I think that's a very good catch! Remember back in SS/PS when they had to play the chess board? Was Harry the castle?! And Ron sacrificed himself so that Harry could take the queen! Not sure who the queen would be though... not necessarily Ginny (although I like that pairing).

By the way, I don't think Ginny is such a player. On the contrary, keeping a boyfriend for a year at the age of 14 is quite a feat. I remember relationships at that age being rather brief (a few weeks). And the fact that she is now dating someone older... one of Ron's friends to boot... :eyebrows: She certainly is maturing!

I thought Harry and Cho would get closer than they did. I guess Cho was still just too worked up about Cedrics death to get into a more lasting relationship with Harry. But, I dont think its the last of theyre relationship and will get together again in one of the future books.

Hey everyone, This is my first post and i wanted to comment on whats been discussed.

As far as the H/G relationship i think its developing a lot more than people have mentioned. Yes we know that Ginny's character has definitely grown. But also I dont know if any mentioned when the characters were in Sirius house after they came back from visiting Mr. Weasley and Harry is upset and yelling at Ron Hermoine and Ginny, and Ginny mentioned how harry should of asked her since she was the only one who has been taken over by Voldermort. Harry gets quiet and kinda calms down after that.

There also a point, that i cant remember at the moment where JK writes that Ginny looks at Harry and there eyes meet and she looks away quickly. I know its a small and mabye trivial part but i think it will be important in Book 6. There were a few more scenes that people mentioned but i can't think of them at the moment.

What do you all think? Am i going a little to far?

Originally posted by vickygirl4 (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?postid=480390#post480390))
I would actually like to see Harry date Lavender or Parvati (I don't know why, but I think that would be cool).


Well I think Pavarti is pretty much out after the whole Yule ball thing if you ask me.

I think that JKR hasn’t finished whit Cho yet because Rowling has been setting them up since the prisoner of Askaban and then it just ended pretty quick in OOTF in my opinion. so I think that she will play a love role the next book because she might think that Harry is a hero after what happened but we don’t know how much the school knows about what had happened in the department of ministry and when Harry saw Cho in the train she blushed which doesn’t mean much it could be that she realised that she was acting to childish by crying about everything but I don’t know am just guessing now.

Now for Ron and Hermione I don’t think the is much love between them because in the GOF Hermione already had a date before Ron had ask her to go ball whit him when he couldn’t find someone to go with him and then in OOTF Hermione said the she still had communication with that Viktor Krum maybe the is something going on with them.

I don’t think the is any thing with Ginny and Harry because Hermione said before that Ginny was over Harry and that’s why she is not shy when she sees him (and anyway she has been with someone else and may be two if she wasn’t joking with Ron in the train already) and also I don’t thin that Harry had any thing for Ginny in the first place but who knows maybe Harry is in his first steps of teen hood if you know what I mean
well that's what i think in a nut shell

Just because she is over harry doesn't mean she doesn't still like him. His idea of Ginny could change and Ginny is beginning to become much more assertive and is showing her personality alot more, and proving she's not just a litttle kid anymore. How many of us think of Ginny as the 11 year old who is just so Adorable. Now she's in her mid teens almost an adult and is tierd of people in her life treating her like she's a baby. Which does happen to her becuase she's the youngest and the only girl. That could really grab harry's Attention. and that odd furitive glance Ron Gave Harry makes me think he might just nudge them together.

Well, this is interesting. For the Ginny romance, well personally i still pictured her to be the "little 1st year" to tell you the truth. I pictured her to be "Ron's little sister" (which she is) but in a different younger approach. I must admit i didn't expect a romance between Ginny and others. Quite unexpected.

Now, Harry and Cho. Well, i always thought they would end up together. Not in their 5th year, but i imagined it would happen. I knew Cho was going to be upset over Cedric, but not this bad! She cried all the time, but i guess you can't blame her. But i if she was so upset, why did she go out with Harry in the first place? I would of waited if i were that upset over Cedric. It was a well written romance and didn't go at all too fast. It was good.(the kissing scene made me giggle!)

As for the Ron and Hermione romance, well, it didn't develop but you can tell there is something between them. The constant fighting, even if you've watched the 2nd movie and how there was some....should i say tention between them at the end of the movie in the Great Hall I wonder sometimes if Hermione might at times have something for Harry?? Possibility, perhaps unlikey as it may seem, but sometimes it does show, very very little. But don't forget about Viktor Krum now. She's in touch, but i personally think he's too old for her and not her type at all.

H/C ship- I think some of us really expected that to happen and then sink to the bottom of the sea.

R/Hr- This ship, IMHO, is still one-sided. If anyone has proof from the text where it's R<-->Hr then please do show me.

H/Hr- the bond between them has grown much more deeper and they have a big chance of having a serious relationship. I'm rooting for this ship to happen in cannon.

H/G- There's a possibilty that Ginny still harbors feelings for Harry, but I don't think he has shown any interest in her, yet.

ok, i havnt been here in a while!

anyway, on the whole Ron saying that ginny should choose someone better next time. hmmmmm.perhaps ron realizes that if he gets together with Hermione, that it would be square if harry went with his sister. perhaps this is what he wants. it could even be his encouragement to ask hermione out.

i dont know. you take a stab at it. and by the way dobby_rocks, i am a guy, about 14 too. and i must say niether gender knows alot about the other. i have to have my cousins help me out with this. and thus my cousins need my help. hmmmmmmm. hermione, TWO guys. likes one, gotta talk to the other?

well, yeah. anyway, im tired and now that im rereading this post, i dont even know why im posting it. but here goes.

Let me just say that I wasn't really liking the Harry/ Cho relationship. I'm only glad it happened because he can finally be over her and get with someone else. *cough* Ginny *cough*

ok, a more useful post now.

lets see.

ron.
ok, brainstorming time.

ron
likes hermione
wants harry with ginny.
jealous of victor
jumps when hermione says harrys not a bad kisser

all of these point to ron liking hermione.

but what about hermione

hermione
no hints what so ever to who she likes, if anyone
gives advice to harry on how to handle cho
kisses him on the cheek
crys several times over harry.

crys several times over harry. this makes me believe that she isnt as in control of her emotions as we all think. (or do we? i havnt been here in a while)

how many times has she cry'd over ron? i dont know. dont think she has

ok, i got a new idea. perhaps hermione, since she is smarter than the average girl, realizes that love between her and harry could get harry killed. so she doesnt go out with him or anything, even if she did like him. simply to protect him. i know it sounds like something you read in a fan fic, but i think its possible. its definately something shed do. shes lied for harry before. (book 5, when Umbridge is about to put the cruciartus curse on harry in her office, hermione makes up a story of Dumbledores weapon and leads them out.)

harry

obviously in pain, due to sirius.
nobody loves him. ( or do they? da da da dahn!)
hes either got to kill or be killed.
his whole mess with cho. does it have a purpose in the series?
has gone out on several adventures with hermione alone.
gets very angry at hermione, ALL THE TIME. but eventually calms down. ( funny how she puts up with this. i wouldnt)

hmmmmm. perhaps harry doesnt want ANYONE to be close to him, so he becomes withdrawled from the trio, to protect his friends. but, harry needs love. after sirius, he has none. perhaps hermione will be the one to fill the gap?

ok, so this was a bit better than my last post, but its really just the start of a theory. i havnt worked on any. (except the cho having an imortantance. just ask for it, ill tell you)

tell me what yall think. (hehehe, yall. pure blooded texan)

EDIT: *cough* hermione *cough*

I don't think she's cried over Harry several times. There were times in PoA when she was cryiny but that was because Ron and Harry were both mad at her. She's teared up when she said something semi bad about Hagrid and Harry glared at her. that's all i can remember. i don't think that hints on her liking Harry or anything, but that's the shipper debate.

gives advice to harry on how to handle cho
did she ? if she did must she invite harry to the 3 broomstick when she knew harry had a date with cho ?

In all truth, it wasn't what I expected. I wanted Ron and Hermione to go out, and but they never did.

As for Ginny, good for her! I loved reading the parts where her brother would get mad...Very funny.

I never liked Cho, and I felt like I was waiting forever for that one kiss, which we didn't even get to witness. Then Cho is a water bucket, and nothing else happens. I kind of like to even sadness out with romance, but there was barely any. I would've liked more, or at least hints to Ron and Hermione. They aren't with anyone though, and Ron did get annoyed when she wrote to Victor, so maybe...*crosses fingers*

Maybe next year they'll start.

And I liked the Harry Luna part. Hopefully they'll get together.

even i expected something more from Ron and HErmoine, but i think JKR is saving the best for the last. Besides, OOTP gave us loads of clues about future relationships.

my preferences

ron - hermoine
harry - ginny
luna - new guy
neville - hmm, this could be a matter of consideration.....never quite thought of him as the romantic type.(lol).

cho is poilte and all that stuff is because she wants to be the most poplaur girl in school and that wat i dun like

Ch0 Chang, please no im lingo here, we use full words and proper english. Please go check out the rules which can be found in a letter from hogwarts. If you have any questions you can go to the feedback area and ask there. Any way I Feel like Cho was using Harry as some form of rebound from Cedric, almost a replacement, which wasn't very fair to Harry. She may have liked Harry but I don't think she should have went out with him until she was completely or almost completely over Cedric.

Aggroskater99 your are sooo right i agree Hermione does get teary eyed with harry.

Does anyone know what hermione meant after they saw Grawp and then she said 'Why does he have to mak things so difficult for himself.... for us?' it went something like that if u know write back please.



'The Scientist' Coldplay

ok then sry ..... :angel:

Oh finally i get to post my opinions on this !!!!!!

Harry/Cho - I have to admit i'm not much of a h/c shipper but i thought his whole first hand relationship experience was pretty cute until things went complicated.It's understandable of Chpo's feelings of hurt towards Cedrics death but i don't think she had to take it out on defencless Harry who had actually done nothing. She also was plainly the leader of the relationship taking Harry to miss Puddifoots where she talked to Harry about her past with cedric...not exactly romantic. I reckon they could have worked out if Cho hadn't been so silly about her jealousy against hermione .No i don't think harry and cho will get back together.