Foreshadowing in the series

Pages : [1] 2 3

jmk623
June 23rd, 2003, 5:44 pm
JKR always puts in little clues through out the stories, but so far, I never seem to catch these little clues. Did anyone catch these clues in OotP? Tell us all~!

GodricSlytherin
June 23rd, 2003, 5:51 pm
Possibly that Arthur will become Minister along the line. D.A. will become more prominent. The power behidn that door that resides in harry with great amounts as well. what's that gonna be. How important is Luna Lovegood actually. La. Just a few

Leda
June 23rd, 2003, 5:54 pm
What about the sorting hat's song? The uniting of the houses? Maybe that will be the pupose of DA in the future, it already had students of three houses in it...

hermiones mum
June 23rd, 2003, 5:56 pm
Phineas Nigellus (Hogwarts Headmaster) is the great great grandfather of Sirius.......leading the way to Albus Dumbledore is the great, great, great, great grandfather of Harry.
[b}Call home the place where your mothers blood dwells, there you cannot be touched or harmed by Voldemort[/b] does this refer to the fact that Voldemort took Harrys blood...

crafty girl
June 23rd, 2003, 5:59 pm
I agree about the sorting hat's song. Also, good point about Arthur Weasley becoming Minister of Magic! I don't know if I believe that, but it's definitely something to think about.

I mentioned this in another thread, but I think the part where Luna's talking to Harry about the curtain (while she was looking for her missing things...poor girl!) is foreshadowing something. Not sure exactly what, but I think we're going to learn more about what's behind that curtain and we'll see Sirius again (still dead, but we'll see him).

Jaredd
June 23rd, 2003, 6:05 pm
Don't forget the door that melted Harry's knife. Didn't Luna mention something about Fudge having his own army of heliotrophs?

Galatea
June 23rd, 2003, 6:14 pm
Yes, and does anyone remember that bit in Sorceror's Stone where Hagrid mentioned all the prominent wizarding families murdered by Voldemort? The Bones, the McKinnons, the Prewetts, the Lovegoods . . . maybe Luna's related somehow. Also, I found it interesting - "Just choose someone - better - next time." He cast Harry an oddly furtive look as he said it. (Ron speaking to Ginny about her relationship with Michael Corner.)
I'm not very good at picking up clues or hints . . . I mean, I hadn't the faintest idea that Sirius would die or anything like that . . . although I think there is a place in book six for a band called Lord Voldything and the Dismembers . . .

silveria
June 23rd, 2003, 6:17 pm
I totally forgot about the melted knife... Good one! These books are so filled with foreshadowing that we could talk about it for eternity. The thing about Dumbledore being Harry's great great grandfather or whatever is interesting...never thought of that. Anyway, I believe: the boggart thing with Molly will come true, sort of. She will be the one to die, saving someone else. (Harry? She saw his dead body too, right?) Another thing: Grawp will become important. There is absolutely a reason that JKR put him into this book, and I would bet a million galleons that it wasn't to save Hermione and Harry. And how about this- Harry as a teacher! At the DA meeting, I belive it was Cho who remarked what a wonderful teacher Harry was. Perhaps he will permanently fill the DADA job? Makes sense to me anyway... Lastly, I am still waiting for Crookshanks to reveal his true self. (Think back to his behavior in PoA for proof of his superiority to other cats...)

HannahStarr
June 23rd, 2003, 6:28 pm
Silveria: are you suggesting that Crookshanks could be an Animagus? Because if he was an Animagus, then he would have shown up on the Marauder's Map, but he never did.

Personally, I think Draco will become a Death Eater, or something along those lines, because he certainly fits the mold for one! In books 1-4, I was hoping that he could redeem himself and not become one, but after OotP there's no way Draco can become a "good boy" now.

G-Thugg
June 23rd, 2003, 6:57 pm
Something about the Bones family. That family has come up for the last couple books...and even more so in the fifth. Susan Bones actually talked, and her relative was part of the trial. Seems too much to me :D

You-Know-Who
June 23rd, 2003, 7:07 pm
Ginny will be a chaser for the Gryffindor team, I'm guessing Ron is going to be the new captain because of strategic insight.

SethEvil
June 23rd, 2003, 7:30 pm
How come everyone is overlooking 10 year old Mark Evans?

Why did JK make it a point to mention this one boy by name and make him 10, so that in the next book he would be 11?
Lily and Petunia's maiden name is Evans and It never said whether they had a brother. Tho this would contradict the "last remaining family" thing, We do know that sometimes the characters lie, and I can't get over the myriad of coincidences about the boy named Mark Evans.

Another thing is that Petunia knows both about Dementors and Azkaban?! Harry has never mentioned Azkaban to them except when he told them his godfather escaped from there, and he didn't mention Dementors then. He has never even spoken of Dementors in the Dursley's presence.

SusanC
June 23rd, 2003, 7:41 pm
SethEvil, excellent catch!! I didn't pick that one up at all and I reread the first four chapters! I caught the one about Petunia's knowledge and I think that not even Vernon knew about it.

DD has a brither and they mentioned it and his full name. I thought that was odd and a bit of a mention.

I also noticed that not only did Rita comply with Hermoine but got a bit of press out of it. Luna's dad sold the story to the Prophet for a good bit of money and it was Rita's story. Makes you wonder what she will do next.

What about Percy and where his alligence lies now? His parents were right. What do you think he will do?

I can find threads and clues but I can't second guess JKR. She always throws me a curve.

SusanC
June 23rd, 2003, 7:44 pm
Oh, yeah. Why so much cleaning??

Katze
June 23rd, 2003, 7:54 pm
Neville losing his wand. I wonder if part of his lack of accomplishment is due to him using his father's wand, and not using his own. I wonder what kind he'll have in the next book. Also that he encouraged Harry not to hand over the prophecy.

Tonk and the Black family.

Originally posted by SethEvil (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=389156#post389156))
Another thing is that Petunia knows both about Dementors and Azkaban?! Harry has never mentioned Azkaban to them except when he told them his godfather escaped from there, and he didn't mention Dementors then. He has never even spoken of Dementors in the Dursley's presence.


Lily had mentioned the Dementors to Petunia. This is how she knew. I wonder if this is a way for Harry and Petunia to forge some sort of relationship. I just keep holding out for the Durselys and Harry to have some sort of positive interaction, but alas, that wouldn't make the story fun, would it?

Elina Makropulos
June 23rd, 2003, 8:05 pm
the most telling bit of foreshadowing that I can recall at the moment was Harry thinking, at one point, how much Ron and Hermione reminded him of Mr. and Mrs. Weasley...:clappy:

Jerkwater
June 23rd, 2003, 8:23 pm
I saw a few things...

-Ron saying something like "Dad's got a better chance of becoming Minister of Magic than..."

-Luna Lovegood is so toast. Methinks she'll be seeing her mum again REAL soon.

-Harry broke a mirror... 7 years of bad luck? How much worse could it get?

-Phineas (sp? right guy?) left his portrait in DD's to go back to the Black house... Could he kill Black's mother in her portrait? Is that possible?

-The destruction of the Magic Brotherhood statue or whatever it's called in the ministry of magic could easily symbolize the crumbling of the allegiances between humans and non-humans. I was CERTAIN that Hermione's leaving elf clothes all over the place was going to cause a mass-exodus of house elves from Hogwarts, who would eventually join up with Voldemort. It didn't happen yet, but something is in the works.

puneypunk
June 23rd, 2003, 8:41 pm
Katze: I have a fealing thath it goes deeper than petunia just havin bin told about dementors,... maybe she has met one ?!?...

Rounded Buddha
June 23rd, 2003, 8:50 pm
Maybe she was closer to Lily than she likes to admit (to Vernon)

HogwartsChaplain
June 24th, 2003, 7:43 am
Ginny's changes of romantic relationships. I think Ron definitely wants Ginny paired with Harry, in part so he doesn't need to worry about Harry & Hermione.

"Luna Lovegood Longbottom" would have a nice ring....

I wonder how Trelawney and Firenze will divide up the Divination duties?

That Death Arch (???) will need some more explanation.

They REALLY need a great DADA teacher next year!

You-Know-Who
June 24th, 2003, 8:26 am
I think we're going to meet Dumbledore's brother, Aberforth in a future book, he's already mentioned twice. And he seems like a funny character...

Remus"Moony"Lupin
June 24th, 2003, 9:25 am
I want to know how much Luna Lovegood really knows. J.K.Rowling took the time to mention that Luna didn't seem to have a scratch on her before they entered the brain room for the second time. She also seemed unafraid of the thestrals when she rode it to the Ministry of Magic. I want to know a lot more about her in the coming books. She's a very intelligent(Well, duh! She's in Ravenclaw!) and interesting character.
Could someone please tell me when we met Mark Evans? I can't remember him!
And I don't think Phineas is going to kill the portrait thing...if that's even possible...I think he just went to ask if that's really true about Sirius.

flibbertigibbet
June 24th, 2003, 9:43 am
Remus "Moony" Lupin - Mark Evans is a kid that gets beat up by 'Big D' (heh) at the beginning of the book. I didn't notice him, either. Hooray for forums!

Oy, I just posted in a thread similar to this one (Clues to books 6 & 7, or something like that - EDIT: found it, it's in the theories forum: http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?s=&threadid=11413), and I didn't even think to mention half the stuff in this thread.

Aelurus13
June 24th, 2003, 9:45 am
Remember the prophecy? Where it said "Born to those who have thrice defied him". That means both Harry and Neville's parents. I want to know more about this! It can't be left hanging

Sandman4888
June 24th, 2003, 9:51 am
Originally posted by HannahStarr (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=388840#post388840))
Silveria: are you suggesting that Crookshanks could be an Animagus? Because if he was an Animagus, then he would have shown up on the Marauder's Map, but he never did.



I think with the Marauder's Map, you only see who you want to see. Remember, in PoA, Snape said "I saw you lot coming down here on Potter's parchment", something like that when he had gone to Lupin's office. Think later...he firmly believed that Pettigrew was not in the room. If this was true that you can see everything, Snape would've saw Pettigrew himself. Personally, I believe they don't show up unless they are near you and/or you are looking for that person...just a thought.

MagpieOnaga
June 24th, 2003, 10:09 am
Mark Evans....WOW, wonderful, amazing, spectacular find!!!

His name is mentioned on Page 13, American version.

Apparantly, he "cheeked" Dudley, who proceeded to beat him up. And the fact that he's 10...my God....pure genius. What if he shows up at Hogwarts next year? AHH!! Thanks so much for catching this, it's brilliant!

(must get some sleep.....)

silveria
June 24th, 2003, 10:16 am
So many of you are noticing the same things as I! For instance, there is NO way that Mark Evans booys is coincidental. Also, I was excited to see that Bones woman at the Ministry hearing, as that family has been mentioned just enough to make us think they are important. It was for this same reason that I was not shocked that Neville became a huge part of this book. What made me particularly aware of Neville's importance was the end of the sorcerer's stone, when he tried to stand up to Harry, Hermione and Ron. Dumbledore acknowledged this and he broke the tie with Slytherin for the house cup. Also, his parents were mentioned frequently as victims of the DE. I expect we'll see some revenge from Mr. Longbottom and his new wand in the upcoming books.

silveria
June 24th, 2003, 10:20 am
Also, with the Crookshanks thing... It didn't expressly say that he didn't appear on the map. Lupin and Snape didn't say either way, and they were the only ones looking at it at the time. And if he did show up on the map, unless someone was looking for him, I don't think they'd notice unless it was the name of someone familiar. The only problem I have with my own theory about Crookshanks is that I cannot for the life of me think of who the person is if it really is an animagus.

silveria
June 24th, 2003, 10:25 am
Hem hem. One more thing before I leave everyone be for the evening. Did anyone else notice the part where Harry first arrived at the noble House of Black? He walked in and everyone was whispering; he didn't know why. And he thought to himself that with everyone whispering it felt as though he had walked into the house of a dying person. Well, it was Sirius' house, and he did end up dying. That seems a little to clean to be coincidental to me.

Ame
June 24th, 2003, 10:33 am
Originally posted by Elina Makropulos (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=389320#post389320))
the most telling bit of foreshadowing that I can recall at the moment was Harry thinking, at one point, how much Ron and Hermione reminded him of Mr. and Mrs. Weasley...:clappy:


:clappy: Thank you, Thank You, Thank You for mentioning that!!!!! I noticed that too. And it was mentioned more than once (at least I think it was)!!!! I think that's foreshadowing for the epilogue in book7 perhaps. I stand by the idea of Ron and Hermione being together, and that bit just encourages me. :p

What about the scene when Ginny objected to being left behind when Harry wanted to save Sirius. It was said that her resemblence to the twins was even more noticeable. Plus, we see she's a real spunky girl... she may carry on the Weasley Prankster Legacy. ;)

EDIT:

I just got a funny thought. Luna Lovegood, Luna is spanish for Moon. And she is known as Loony... which rhymes with Moony, and we all know who Moony is, Remus. Perhaps Luna will be a lot more than she seems... maybe a werewolf... heck I don't know. Perhaps I'm poke: poking just a little too deeply, but the idea just kinda came to mind... any comments?

keskin_snape
June 24th, 2003, 11:27 am
Maybe Luna is related to Remus?? One thing that gets me with her character is that she just popped up, and we hadn't heard anything about her previously.
I soooo noticed the 'look' Ron gave Harry when he was talking about the kinds of guys Ginny should go out with lol.
And the fact that Ginny has been mentioned several times, how much she reminds us of 'Fred and George'. Maybe she will carry on their legacy?
I wish my lil brother would finish the book so I can read it again!!

DWeasley
June 24th, 2003, 1:26 pm
I agree that Luna will be important later on...she seems to have some "insider" knowledge from somewhere. I mean she knows a lot of stuff the average hogwarts student doesn't have.

Ok, as far as foreshadowing...what about Hermione's and Cho's patronus's. Cho's was a swan, and Hermiones was a badger? I can't remember exactly. I think those will become significant later.

EvilRaven
June 24th, 2003, 2:09 pm
I think the veil will be revisited... harry may seek answers from his parents... it may also be the only way Voldemort can actually die.

Neville getting a new wand may acutally make him better in Magic.

Oh and were there any clues to the power which Harry has within his eyes?

Ame
June 26th, 2003, 12:08 pm
DWeasley, Hermione's patronus was an otter. I thought that was way weird. I would have thought of anything but an otter. Why would otters be important. Is there something special about otters I should know about?

Anyway... it as an otter... o.O

Rounded Buddha
June 26th, 2003, 12:50 pm
Didn't JK say at one point that she'd like to be an otter if she was an animagus

*Darth Voldemort*
June 26th, 2003, 12:57 pm
Harry will find his place in the wizarding world by becoming the DADA teacher in Hogwarts, I believe. The 7th book could tell us at its end that Harry, while leaving Hogwarts the last time as a sudent, will return there as a teacher.
The 1st clue is the "running gag" of Hogwarts losing his DADA teacher at the end of every school year. The 2nd clue, of course, is Harry's success as DADA teacher in OotP.

I also could imagine a situation, where Voldemort has Harry as his mercy but is unable to kill him, because there is blood of Harry's mother running through Voldy's veins. This kind of maternal magic is becoming more and more essential to the series. And we all remember Dumbledore's facial expression, when he learned that Voldy took blood from Harry.

It also might be possible, that some of the stories "The Quibbler" printed about Fudge might be true in the end. Could it be, that Fudge IS trying to seize control over Gringotts?

And Luna will be Harry's 1st girl-friend (might not be his last, though...).

hermiones mum
June 26th, 2003, 1:02 pm
Originally posted by DWeasley (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=391772#post391772))
what about Hermione's and Cho's patronus's. Cho's was a swan, and Hermiones was a badger? I can't remember exactly. I think those will become significant later.

Agreed a badger is very black and white...the way hermione sees the world, the swan appears very graceful on the outside does Cho have concerns with appearances.

Aberforth, he was mentioned as one of the original OOTP from the photo...where is he now and how old is he if Dumbledore is about 500?

Isaraniel
June 26th, 2003, 2:31 pm
One time in the book I thought "oh no, Sirius is going to die", but forgot it later on: when Harry leaves Grimmauld Place after christmas, he says goodbye to Sirius and has the feeling that it's the last time he'll see him (I don't know the exact part).

Minnie
June 26th, 2003, 5:22 pm
Originally posted by Ame (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=391535#post391535))

I just got a funny thought. Luna Lovegood, Luna is spanish for Moon. And she is known as Loony... which rhymes with Moony, and we all know who Moony is, Remus. Perhaps Luna will be a lot more than she seems... maybe a werewolf... heck I don't know. Perhaps I'm poke: poking just a little too deeply, but the idea just kinda came to mind... any comments?


Yes!! I noticed that too! Can a person in this series become a werewolf through heredity? Or is it strictly through being bitten? What about through magic?? Also... she had to have seen someone die in order to see the threstal. Did anyone catch who it was she had seen die and how that person did die?

animagus1369
June 26th, 2003, 5:46 pm
Percy's return of his Christmas sweater = total rejection of his parents = something big's coming. Think he'll try to swing Ron over to his side (like he did with the letter) and that's when Ron'll really be in for a ride.

The group of people "on Harry's side" at King's Cross at the end - first time it's been specifically mentioned and first time anyone actually stood up for him with the Durlseys over what would happen during the summer if he wasn't treated right. Symbolic of the 'battle lines' being drawn more obviously? Symbolic of the coming increase in interaction between the Dursleys and the Wizarding World ?

Capella
June 26th, 2003, 11:43 pm
Originally posted by Minnie (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=395720#post395720))
Did anyone catch who it was she had seen die and how that person did die?


Luna saw her mother die when she was nine - some sort of experimental charm accident, I think.

I reckon Grawp will have a role in future events, the formation of the DA and the fact that those students have an advanced knowledge of DADA (useful if Voldemort ever attacks the school), Aberforth Dumbledore (JKR wouldn't have mentioned him if not to remind us he exists), and Mark Evans has got to be important also!

hermiones mum
June 26th, 2003, 11:51 pm
In the occlumency chapter P473, part of the images flashing through his mind was his father and mother were waving at him out of an enchanted mirror Is this a memory of the mirror of erised or the future using the special mirrors that James and Sirius used.

We see lots of portrait action and what present does Dobby give Harry - a portait......will Harry be appearing in the pictures?

Sorry, just call me crazy but the Droobles blowing gum wrapper that Alice passes to Neville and we find that he must have been given enough of them to paper his bedroom....something must be there...

millerbrad
June 27th, 2003, 12:06 am
I noticed quite a few "..."'s in Trelawney's prophecy. Did D-Dore miss some of what she had to say while he was booting the intruder from Hogs Head? Maybe Neville is the one to kill Voldemort and not Harry.

In Harry's vision, Sirius was looking at the veil in the Department of Mysteries that we're all wondering about. Maybe it's the gate to Azkaban, as I'm sure that would concern him. If it were, I'm sure Moony would assume that once in Azkaban, the dementors would perform the Kiss on Sirius immediately, so "he's dead". The thing is, didn't Fudge say in his Daily Prophet interview that the dementors had left Azkaban? I have a hard time believing that Sirius is dead, because he was certainly alive when he fell through the veil. (Avada Kedavra is green -- not red. I initially thought *Tonks* had died when reading the fight chapter, because she got hit by a green spell). ...or how about this one: when a person goes through the veil, they BECOME a dementor...

Grawp got hit in the face by a dozen cantaur arrows. And he was OK with that?

I also picked up on all the talk of portraits. I can't help but think back to book four... In the room where Harry goes after his name comes out of the goblet, there is a picture of a walrus-mustached wizard and Violet, the gossipy witch. They reminded me alot of Vernon and Petunia. I think we'll still hear more of their history in Books 6 & 7.

Dedalus Diggle
June 27th, 2003, 12:54 am
I think there may be something to an attempt to take over Gringotts, as that seems to be the goblins primary center of power, and there has been so much talk of the arrogance of the wizards, especially the so-called purebloods, and their disregard and disdain of other intelligent beings. Also the theme has been more and more about unity and respect for other intelligent beings. And after all, the goblins have been rebelling off and on for hundreds of years - with the treatment other magical beings get from most of the wizards, it's no surprise, and maybe they are not 'rebeling' but defending their turf. I think Percy will be involved in this attempt, perhaps seeing the opportunity to make himself the MoM's Finance Minister as a great move. He will die. I will bet also that it turns out that Professor Flitwick is half-goblin (that's got to be an easier act to accomplish physically than Hagrid's father and mother getting together): after all he is so tiny, as the books never fail to mention, and the goblins are magical beings, so they would have more in common with witches/wizards than giants would. If HArry helps to save the goblins in Book 6, that would set the stage for him being able to count on their assistance in some way in Book 7.

And Arthur Weasley will take Fudge's position as an old-family 'pureblood' wizard who also is well-recognized as respecting and welcoming other intelligent beings. And after all, Ron said something (I forget what at the moment) "is as likely as my Dad becoming Minister of Magic"- of course that means it will happen, though it would seem absurd to them under the circumstances then applying.

Inkwolf
June 27th, 2003, 5:31 pm
Here's some important news: JKR said in her interview that she would tell us something unexpected, because it would prepare us for another bombshell she intends to drop on us...and it wouldn't have been fair or believable to have it happen with no building-up.

Sooo, something in the book is definitely a hint of a surprise to come!!! Will Neville turn out to be the prophecy boy? Will worse things come out about the Marauders? Will Draco run away from home to pursue a career as a songwriter?

Frustrating JKR!!!!

amy460
June 27th, 2003, 5:50 pm
I think that Dumbledore has a blood relationship with Harry. At the end of book 5 he went on to tell Harry that he didn't want to Voldermort to know that he cared for Harry more than just a student. I think he is not telling Harry of their relationship for fear that Voldermort will use it to destroy Dumbeldore (as he used sirius against Harry)

hermiones mum
June 27th, 2003, 6:35 pm
I think Dean Thomas will die at the hands of Pettigrew in one of the next books.
Foreshadowing from Deans fear of a severed hand....not the hand of glory as we might be lead to think.

Mcgonegal will be giving Harry extra lessons in the next book.

The fountain of magical bretheren is symbolic of who will join Harry against the dark lord (wizard, witch, centaur, goblin, houself - Harry, Hermione, Firenze, ? and Dobby)

whizbang121
June 27th, 2003, 8:15 pm
Originally posted by Galatea (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=388780#post388780))
although I think there is a place in book six for a band called Lord Voldything and the Dismembers . . .


Yes! Yes! And a sitcom about Fred and George called Weasley's Wizard Wheezers.

Katze
June 27th, 2003, 8:18 pm
Here are two bits that grabbed my attention:

The little bit of the prophecy that broke in chapter 35:

"...at the Solstice will come a new..." said the figure of an old, bearded man.

Could that be Dumbledore making a prophecy?

And then what about this part of another prophecy that broke:

"...and none will come after..." said the figure of a young woman.

What if that's Trelawney again?

whizbang121
June 27th, 2003, 8:23 pm
Originally posted by Inkwolf (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=396035#post396035))
Here's some important news: JKR said in her interview that she would tell us something unexpected, because it would prepare us for another bombshell she intends to drop on us...and it wouldn't have been fair or believable to have it happen with no building-up.

Sooo, something in the book is definitely a hint of a surprise to come!!! Will Neville turn out to be the prophecy boy? Will worse things come out about the Marauders? Will Draco run away from home to pursue a career as a songwriter?

Frustrating JKR!!!!


Frustrating and misleading! I'm dangling by about 11 threads, thoughts begun and never followed through. We still don't know much about Mrs Figg. What does Petunia know and who sent the howler? If the Blacks were Dark wizards, (how did I miss the name clue:banghead: ?) were the Potters, too? Or is there something in the name Potter I should be trying to understand?! Who is little Mark Evans? And what exactly does Luna know and how does she know it?

Inkwolf. You are a genius. May I steal your Evolution of a Slytherin for my desktop? I promise not to sell it or anything. It's amazing.

^^^^^^^^^^^^

quote:
Originally posted by Katze (original post)
Here are two bits that grabbed my attention:

The little bit of the prophecy that broke in chapter 35:

"...at the Solstice will come a new..." said the figure of an old, bearded man.

Could that be Dumbledore making a prophecy?

And then what about this part of another prophecy that broke:

"...and none will come after..." said the figure of a young woman.

What if that's Trelawney again?



Or her relative who was known to be a seer? But there were so many prophecies bottled up in that room! How are they grouped? By year? Subject? Seer? (I've been in libraries too long. I need to know how they are cross referenced.)

ps: congrats! Katze! Keep the ideas coming.

morsmordre
June 27th, 2003, 9:54 pm
Originally posted by hermiones mum (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=396121#post396121))
I think Dean Thomas will die at the hands of Pettigrew in one of the next books.
Foreshadowing from Deans fear of a severed hand....not the hand of glory as we might be lead to think.


I think this was mainly due to the fact that Dean is (and it is mentioned in the book several times) a great artist. That's why his boggart turned into a severed hand because it's what an artist would fear.

Muslix
June 27th, 2003, 11:37 pm
This is totally out of left field...(sorry if this has been mentioned elsewhere already)but, regarding Crookshanks; I have a sneaking suspicion that he has something to do with Dung. Crookshanks is a ginger cat, and Dung is mentioned as being "ginger" also, and both are described as "bandy legged." Dung also hangs out with "crooks" and a shank can refer to part of a pipe (as in the one he was smoking in the kitchen), and also to a part of the leg (drawing attention, again, to the legs of both). I thought maybe he was an Animagus, but Dung and Crookshanks were in the same room together, so I don't know how they would be related...

eta: woops! There's already a topic talking about this.

jaedi
June 28th, 2003, 12:46 am
About the solstice prophecy, I thought it was very interesting when I read it. "...at the Solstice will come a new..." and the 5th Book came out on the Soltice, did it not? :D
I know that doesn't have anything to do with foreshadowing, but I thought it was cool!

I think the information given to us about the voices behind the veil was foreshadowing because why else would we need that information? I don't think it will come into play until book seven though.

crazychick0762
June 28th, 2003, 12:51 am
I really think that sometime there will be like a part where Malfoy may have to save Harry...and I think he will. I dunno maybe its just me being convinced that there's gotta be something good in that little...butt...I dunno. I have no evidence to support this, I just think it may happen.

crazychick0762
June 28th, 2003, 1:04 am
I really think that sometime there will be like a part where Malfoy may have to save Harry...and I think he will. I dunno maybe its just me being convinced that there's gotta be something good in that little...butt...I dunno. I have no evidence to support this, I just think it may happen.

AvadaKedavra
June 28th, 2003, 1:11 am
And what about that Auror comment by McGongall? Looks like Harry will be taking Charms, DADA, Transfiguration, Potions and Care of Magicial creatures- I know McGongall only said that she would support Harry to spite Umbridge, but I don't think she will back down on her promise........ so those are prob Harry, Ron and Hermione's NEWTS as all want to be Aurors. Depends on results and possible intervention by Dumbledore....

Cat
June 28th, 2003, 1:19 am
I thought that the werewolf in the ward with Mr Weasley was a tad foreshadowing. I don't know why. It just clicked vividly in my mind when Mr Lupin went over and talked to the man. Perhaps werewolves will be mentioned more. We've had more than one giant mentioned, more than one house elf, more than one centaur... the only 'breed' with a population of one seems to be werewolves so far.

whizbang121
June 28th, 2003, 3:26 am
Originally posted by EvilRaven (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=391862#post391862))
I think the veil will be revisited... harry may seek answers from his parents... it may also be the only way Voldemort can actually die.

Neville getting a new wand may acutally make him better in Magic.

Oh and were there any clues to the power which Harry has within his eyes?


Evilraven,

Missed you! I like the idea that it's the only way Voldemort can die. Kind of like there's only one way to destroy the ring and all that, but we know that Voldemort's death curse didn't work on Harry. What if the reverse is also true and the veil is the only way one can do in the other? (You are a genius)

Power in Harry but no mention of his eyes. Think that's what it will be?

whizbang121
June 28th, 2003, 3:32 am
Originally posted by Minnie (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=395720#post395720))
Yes!! I noticed that too! Can a person in this series become a werewolf through heredity? Or is it strictly through being bitten? What about through magic?? Also... she had to have seen someone die in order to see the threstal. Did anyone catch who it was she had seen die and how that person did die?


I thought her mom died in a botched magic spell when Luna was five or so. Interesting the connections to Lupin and the moon. And her big luminous eyes.

Tomlover17
June 28th, 2003, 3:49 am
What about vampires??? in GoF Transylvania was mentioned and it was also mentioned that the vampires did something in GoF. and in OoTP Vampires were mentioned at least 3 times that i can remember. I think there is something there and we are going to see a vampire.

trev2023
June 28th, 2003, 4:18 am
Originally posted by HogwartsChaplain (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=391195#post391195))
They REALLY need a great DADA teacher next year!
There is kind of a pattern in the DADA teachers:

1- evil
2- annoying and stupid
3- really cool
4- evil
5- annoying and stupid

so...
6- Really cool?

Gryffindor Sith
June 28th, 2003, 4:23 am
Just wanted to say several things...

Mark Evans' age is just there to show the nature of Dudley... as if we didn't know.

Why did Snape leave the DE? could it be because he found out that inocents were to be targeted? like the hunting of Harry/Neville by you-know-who? Was it he who was caught in the hogs head overhearing the message?

Also Neville... Did Rons new wand empower him with some great new/extra powers after Chamber? don't think so.

The barman at the hogs head seemed familiar to Harry. Maybe Aberforth, Dumbledores Brother?

Is Petunia a Squib? might explain her being such a xenophobe towards the wizarding world.

Lestrange
June 28th, 2003, 4:44 am
Originally posted by Cat (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=397282#post397282))
I thought that the werewolf in the ward with Mr Weasley was a tad foreshadowing. I don't know why. It just clicked vividly in my mind when Mr Lupin went over and talked to the man. Perhaps werewolves will be mentioned more. We've had more than one giant mentioned, more than one house elf, more than one centaur... the only 'breed' with a population of one seems to be werewolves so far.


Except for vampires. :D I really want to see a vampire next year (I'm not one of those Snape= Vampire supporters, though).....Anyway, I think we'll see him in the next book...I'd like to think that there will be a band of werewolves recruited into The Order.....it just seems right that there will be tons of outcasts in there....

...I'd also like to say something about Cho having a swan as a Patronus. Swans are pretty, but they have a brain the size of an M&M......like Cho. (Yes, yes, another being who despises Cho, but only for the fact that she went from her dead boyfriend to another boy.....to another...). But seriously...she could be attacked by dementors maybe, or Hermione.

I wonder if Aberforth is in another country or something...? He's still alive, because Moody didn't explain his horrific death...so.....I hope we see him in the next book. Something tells me that seeing an Albus-Aberforth teamup will be something like watching the twins....I hope...

I think Luna's name refers to her nickname. Loony, loopy, Lunatic. But maybe itis referring to the moon, or astrology.

....In unrelated topics, I'm watching Daria. Has anyone noticed the striking resembelance between Mr. D' Martino and Mad-Eye Moody? ...Just checking. :)

Katze
June 28th, 2003, 4:48 am
Originally posted by Lestrange (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=397712#post397712))
I think Luna's name refers to her nickname. Loony, loopy, Lunatic. But maybe itis referring to the moon, or astrology.


I think it has to do with her name because of the reaction she receives from Harry.

He feels at ease around her and quite calm.

He was also asked to do a report on a certain potion meant for calming nerves and anxiety, with the main ingredient being moonstone.

I don't think this is coincidence.

Max
June 28th, 2003, 5:39 am
I don't know if this has been mentioned before ... and I doubt it ... but I just found something interesting in The Centaur and the Sneak. Enjoy:

British Hardcover, page 541
'Blatant corruption!' roared the portrait of the corpulent, red-nosed wizard on the wall behind Dumbledore's desk. 'The Ministry did not cut deals with petty criminals in my day, no sir, they did not!'

'Thank you, Fortescue, that will do,' said Dumbledore softly.

This reminds me of Florean Fortescue's Ice Cream Parlour at Diagon Alley. And we also know that Florean is alive and well -- a descendant of a previous Hogwart's headmaster?

Katze
June 28th, 2003, 7:15 am
Harry managed to do magic without his wand in the first chapter. He's done it before, but this was a directed type of magic.

He said "Lumos" and to his surprise his wand lit up and it wasn't in his hand.

I wonder if Harry might start to do directed magic without his wand at some point?

whizbang121
June 28th, 2003, 5:34 pm
Originally posted by Katze (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=398069#post398069))
Harry managed to do magic without his wand in the first chapter. He's done it before, but this was a directed type of magic.

He said "Lumos" and to his surprise his wand lit up and it wasn't in his hand.

I wonder if Harry might start to do directed magic without his wand at some point?


Very interesting point, Katze. Wandless magic is not supposed to happen very often. Do you think it's related to that power so strong in Harry and not at all in Voldemort that is studied in the Dept of Mysteries?

Katze
June 28th, 2003, 5:49 pm
Originally posted by whizbang121 (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=398995#post398995))
Very interesting point, Katze. Wandless magic is not supposed to happen very often. Do you think it's related to that power so strong in Harry and not at all in Voldemort that is studied in the Dept of Mysteries?


I think wandless magic might be possible with deep concentration or desparate need. He desprately needed his wand, and thus found it with wandless magic. I'd like to see more of this.

He's done other wandless magic - flinging the cupboards door open, and blowing up Aunt Marge. But I think those were unexpected consequences of his emotions.

Lighting up his wand was direct and specific.

Has Dumbledore done wandless magic? I know he makes the decorations change with a clap of his hands.

---

I just remembered something that I think will definitely come into play.

Fawkes.

Fakwes took the fall for Dumbledore and saved his life. And on many occassions he's healed Harry and helped.

Perhaps Fawkes will end up being an integral part of protecting Harry during his mission to kill Voldemort?

I would like Harry to remain innocent and whatnot, but I also very much want to see him go through with killing Voldemort. I don't want to see Harry turn into a killer, but I'm so eager to see his Dark Side and I think that's a necessary side of himself to help him prepare for his task.

xxquixx
June 28th, 2003, 5:58 pm
the boggart scene is clearly a foreshadowing of a weasley death... don't know who specifically, but i hope it's percy!

Kendra
June 28th, 2003, 6:08 pm
I just think it's a sign Harry is growing to be a very powerful wizard indeed. I mean we have see DE's not using words and using wands, but not this before, only by Dumbledore occasionally.

hermiones mum
June 28th, 2003, 6:09 pm
check out the anti venom essay that Prof Binns gave the students to write?

Will the next book have something on Goblin rebellions and Moonstone?

Now I did a little bit of homework and came up with good for intuition and meditation, used to treat headaches,protective of women and babies, symbolises the ancient eye which guards against evil and more importantly when placed in the month during a full moon, the holder can predict the future

Kizz
June 28th, 2003, 9:06 pm
In the chapter "the woes of Mrs Weasley" - the boggart doesn't take the forms of Charlie or Ginny. This could be a hint, or theres just too many Weasleys for one mum to worry about. But remember that it did do Harry, so if the Weasleys get it, he will too?

Btw, Mark Evans won't be going to Hogwarts (at the Hearing they said Harry was the only magi in the area)...who knows. Too bad i can't remember if Ron + Harry did any divination homework - that always comes true.

Daveydee
June 28th, 2003, 9:15 pm
I wouldn't go too overboard on the wandless magic ideas, because of course the Lumos spell wasn't actually wandless at all. The wand emitted the light.

silveria
June 29th, 2003, 1:27 am
I don't know if anyone has mentioned this, so I apologize if someone has...but, to defeat Lord Voldything, won't Harry have to do some type of wandless magic? Two "brother" wands aren't supposed to work against each other...and since each has the sole power to defeat the other, isn't it safe to say that Harry will have to come up with something unconventional?

whizbang121
June 29th, 2003, 5:48 am
I would like Harry to remain innocent and whatnot, but I also very much want to see him go through with killing Voldemort. I don't want to see Harry turn into a killer, but I'm so eager to see his Dark Side and I think that's a necessary side of himself to help him prepare for his task.

Katze,
Have you ever read "The Wizrd of Earthsea" series by Ursula Leguin. The wizard must face his own dark side to find his strength and his power, and his ability to choose.

morsmordre
June 29th, 2003, 10:04 am
About Mark Evans. He may not be related to Lily and Petunia at all because in the US version, Chapter 37 (pg. 836), while Dumbledore is explaining himself to Harry, he says:

"She gave you a lingering protetion he never expected, a protection that flows in your veins to this day. I put my trust, therefore, in your mother's blood. I delivered you to her sister, her only remaining relative."

So unless Lily and Petunia had a brother or another sister that they both never mentioned, Mark Evans may not be related to them at all. If that's the case then no Hogwarts letter for him.

hightideorlowtide
June 29th, 2003, 10:09 am
I knew Sirius was going to die... he was acting like a caged animal. but i thought his death was gonna be 100x better than it was.. i was quite disapointed

sone
June 29th, 2003, 11:17 am
Dumbledore and Voldemort seem to be doing lots of wandless magic in their duel.

*Darth Voldemort*
June 29th, 2003, 1:19 pm
Man, I want to see that spooky Hand Of Glory again! Why wasn't the Hand Of Glory in OotP?

*Darth Voldemort*
June 29th, 2003, 1:23 pm
Could Neville be powerfull with Harry's wand? Neville couldn't do anything with Hermione's wand, if I remember correctly. What if, in book 6 or 7, Neville has to use Harry's wand (which is the twin wand to Voldy's) and is able to do great things with it??? If something like this should happen, it might make us see the prophecy in a new light...

whizbang121
June 29th, 2003, 11:15 pm
Originally posted by morsmordre (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=401764#post401764))
About Mark Evans. He may not be related to Lily and Petunia at all because in the US version, Chapter 37 (pg. 836), while Dumbledore is explaining himself to Harry, he says:

"She gave you a lingering protetion he never expected, a protection that flows in your veins to this day. I put my trust, therefore, in your mother's blood. I delivered you to her sister, her only remaining relative."

So unless Lily and Petunia had a brother or another sister that they both never mentioned, Mark Evans may not be related to them at all. If that's the case then no Hogwarts letter for him.


You know, I'm beginning to wonder about this Dumbledore doesn't lie stuff. It's just the answer to everything. JKR never uses a name without a reason. But Dumbledore doesn't lie. :banghead:

KeLiSiTing
June 30th, 2003, 12:39 am
Originally posted by *Darth Voldemort* (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=395277#post395277))

I also could imagine a situation, where Voldemort has Harry as his mercy but is unable to kill him, because there is blood of Harry's mother running through Voldy's veins. This kind of maternal magic is becoming more and more essential to the series. And we all remember Dumbledore's facial expression, when he learned that Voldy took blood from Harry.



OHMISOGH! I can't believe someone else has thought of this beside me! Dumbledore is always stressing the importance of bonds that magic creates between wizrds. I just know there has to be something more to VOldemort taking harry's blood, and DD's reaction. But that has been one of my theories for a while. Wow! Kinda cool!

Avalon
June 30th, 2003, 1:50 am
I think that Dumbledore has a blood relationship with Harry. At the end of book 5 he went on to tell Harry that he didn't want to Voldermort to know that he cared for Harry more than just a student. I think he is not telling Harry of their relationship for fear that Voldermort will use it to destroy Dumbeldore (as he used sirius against Harry)>>>

Hey Amy, we're in the same boat :) in one of the books it said that the task of taking care of Harry's arrangements after his parents died fell to him [or something along those lines, sorry don't have the book near] . I wondered why he had to make the decisions instead of Sirius, unless, of course,he's actually blood family. Also the invisibility cloak was left in DD's possession by James. Ron said how rare and valuable it was and Dunmbledore said he didn't need it to be invisible. So why did James give it Dunbledore instead of his best friend? Sorry if i'm not making sense at the moment, the subway series is on.

whizbang121
June 30th, 2003, 4:32 pm
Originally posted by Avalon (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=403831#post403831))
I think that Dumbledore has a blood relationship with Harry. At the end of book 5 he went on to tell Harry that he didn't want to Voldermort to know that he cared for Harry more than just a student. I think he is not telling Harry of their relationship for fear that Voldermort will use it to destroy Dumbeldore (as he used sirius against Harry)>>>

Hey Amy, we're in the same boat :) in one of the books it said that the task of taking care of Harry's arrangements after his parents died fell to him [or something along those lines, sorry don't have the book near] . I wondered why he had to make the decisions instead of Sirius, unless, of course,he's actually blood family. Also the invisibility cloak was left in DD's possession by James. Ron said how rare and valuable it was and Dunmbledore said he didn't need it to be invisible. So why did James give it Dunbledore instead of his best friend? Sorry if i'm not making sense at the moment, the subway series is on.

****************************

Don't forget the auburn hair, like Lily's. Why do we know so little about Aberforth?
And then there's the bit about Voldemort not wanting to kill Lily. He killed James without a twitch, but he only killed Lily to get to Harry. Why? Lily was very special, for some reason. :banghead:

Mad-I Moody
June 30th, 2003, 5:03 pm
Things that are foreshadowed....hmmm.

Lily's eyes: they are definitely mentioned in the chapter about Snape's worst memory. We WILL find out more about the importance of those green eyes.

Neville: I can feel something big coming for this guy. His role took too much of an upswing in OotP. I think his new wand may give him better powers...I think that having his dad's old wand may have held him back.

Luna: we'll see her again, and I think that something in the Quibbler might turn out to be true (like Fudge trying to overtake Gringotts?)

Crookshanks: I think he's just a kneazle.

Prophecies: the ones that broke, that a few people have already mentioned. I think that is a great idea - that the "Solstice" prophecy was made by Dumbledore! Will we find out that he is a Seer?

Aberforth: I think we'll actually meet this fellow...he's been mentioned in two separate books now.

mark Evans: I think the jury is still out on this one.

Petunia: We're going to find out more about her connection to the Wizarding World. Something about the Howler and the dementors....she was affected by that.

Steffie
June 30th, 2003, 5:12 pm
about a persons patronus.... they seem to be subconciusly connected...Harry with the stag, Cho with the Swan... so what's up with Hermoine's patronus...an otter... aren't they family to the weasels ? so maybe hermoine is subconsciously thinking of ron weasley...hihi (this was just meant to be a fun observation... not to be taking to heavily)

Puffskein
June 30th, 2003, 5:56 pm
I think it's just that JKR likes otters and based Hermione on her younger self. So she would like to have an otter Patronus.

animagus1369
June 30th, 2003, 6:02 pm
Originally posted by whizbang121 (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=403380#post403380))
You know, I'm beginning to wonder about this Dumbledore doesn't lie stuff. It's just the answer to everything. JKR never uses a name without a reason. But Dumbledore doesn't lie. :banghead:


Look at the word tense. He delivered Harry to Lily's only remaining relative. At the time, Lily's only remaining blood relative might have been Petunia. There are other ways to have relatives that don't have to do with blood--Lily might have had an adopted brother who married a Witch? Let's face it, things far more far-fetched have happened (Moody being locked in his own magical trunk and impersonated by Crouch's son comes to mind).

The discussion is about what DD did in the past. It doesn't entirely rule out other relatives for Harry, as DD was "relying on [Harry's] mother's blood."

Avalon
June 30th, 2003, 6:10 pm
Don't forget the auburn hair, like Lily's>>

It seems that alot of wizards have red toned hair, maybe it goes back to that old notion that if you had red hair, then you were considered a witch.

Lestrange
June 30th, 2003, 6:15 pm
Originally posted by Inkwolf (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=396035#post396035))
Here's some important news: JKR said in her interview that she would tell us something unexpected, because it would prepare us for another bombshell she intends to drop on us...and it wouldn't have been fair or believable to have it happen with no building-up.


You know, I just had a weird thought. It could be the James/Bully thing. That was pretty unexpected, and I'm sure that she's gonna build on it (why would she put it in there and never talk about it again...?). ...And then the bombshell that she drops on us would be something about Snape (other than what she's already said about him...). Remember how she said not to get too comfortable with pitying Snape (or something like that...)? All in the same interview....

Siriusly
July 2nd, 2003, 3:55 am
I definitly thought that Sirius had that "dead man walking" thing going on. I never would have guesses it before reading it- but I did guess it while reading.

As far as the veil is concerned- I think it must be a gateway to the world of the dead. That is why Sirius was gone, and not murdered (techinically dead, without being killed is the feeling I got) And following the same idea as the thestrals- that is why Luna and Harry could hear the voices and not the others- did Neville hear it too? I can't remember. I really hope we do hear more about the veil

GryffindorGal
July 2nd, 2003, 5:15 am
[quote]Originally posted by HannahStarr (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=388840#post388840))
Silveria: are you suggesting that Crookshanks could be an Animagus? Because if he was an Animagus, then he would have shown up on the Marauder's Map, but he never did.

JKR said that Crookshanks is part Kneazle. (an exact definition is in fantastic beasts and where to find them) but it is a member of the cat family which would negate him being an animagus as he's not human.

fefee
July 2nd, 2003, 6:33 am
um maybe i missed something but who did neville see die because he never mentions anything about seeing the thestrals before (at least i dont think he did) and his parents arent actually dead r they?

GryffindorGal
July 2nd, 2003, 6:39 am
Originally posted by fefee (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=412638#post412638))
um maybe i missed something but who did neville see die because he never mentions anything about seeing the thestrals before (at least i dont think he did) and his parents arent actually dead r they?



His grandfather. That's all we know.

whizbang121
July 2nd, 2003, 7:02 am
Originally posted by Inkwolf (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=396035#post396035))
Here's some important news: JKR said in her interview that she would tell us something unexpected, because it would prepare us for another bombshell she intends to drop on us...and it wouldn't have been fair or believable to have it happen with no building-up.

Sooo, something in the book is definitely a hint of a surprise to come!!! Will Neville turn out to be the prophecy boy? Will worse things come out about the Marauders? Will Draco run away from home to pursue a career as a songwriter?

Frustrating JKR!!!!


Am I the only one who didn't see Sirius coming from a family of dark wizards? That was my biggest surprise. That and Petunia wasn't riding a broom.

Turambar
July 2nd, 2003, 7:09 am
A couple of things stood out for me:
1) The scene where Sirius chased the train as a dog was a lot like the scene of Ginny farewelling the train in PS. Could this be foreshadowing for a future Ginny death?

2) The news that the sorting hat thought about putting Hermione in Ravenclaw but then decided on Gryffindor. It thought about putting Harry in Slytherin but then put him in Gryffindor. That 's three of the four houses. Both Harry and Hermione are notable for their loyalty - a chief chracteristic of the other house, Hufflepuff. So combined they symbolically represent the four houses.

Ashkins
July 7th, 2003, 12:26 am
As I read PS UK version this stuck out..

Pg 162 middle of page --

Could Snape of possibly know they'd found out about the Philosopher's Stone? Harry didn't see how he could - yet he sometimes had the horrible feeling that Snape could read minds.

Then in OotP we find out thats something Snape is incredibly good at.

((I also wonder how long he has and will use it on the students))

Christine Black
July 7th, 2003, 1:18 am
A couple things I noticed ...

1. Why is the Order of the Phoenix Called the Order of the Phoenix? It is the title of the book yet we are never told what it means. I think that it has something to do with the fact that Voldemort has a wand with Fawkes's feather in the core. Maybe Fawkes could be a key to stopping him.

2. Sturgis Podmore. Podmore. Isn't that the last name of the Head ghost in the Headless Hunt?

3. Hermione's Patronus was an otter. Otters are known for being very intelligent so it definatly fits.

4. Aberforth was mentioned as being part of the original Order of the Phoenix. Why is n't he part of it now?

5. A couple of people said that they thought that Dumbledore was a seer. I don't think that this is true because when he told Harry about interviewing Trelawny about being Divination teacher he said that he regretted the need for this subject to continue.

6. Mark Evans. That can't possibly be a coinsedence. I don't think that he will go to Hogwarts (Harry is the only wizard in Little Whinging) but he will play some part in the book.

sone
July 7th, 2003, 1:37 am
It should also be taken into account Turambar, that Harry and Hermione have never treated anyone different because of what but rather who they are. Another quality of Hufflepuff.

I cannot remember all the pages I have for this opinion but more and more I am starting to believe that Harry has some sort of extra sensory perception. He seems to know not only when he is being watched but lately who is watching him even without even having to move or look. For some reason I also get the impression that he knew what Lee, Fred and George were handing those first and second year students "Fainting Fancies" even before he saw them. Also I get the impression he knew what joke Peeves was going to play when he was talking to "Nearly Headless Nick". I do not think they were guesses at all.

It really hit me when I was reading OOTP and Bellatrix said paraphrased "The Dark Lord always knows".

Evilrabbit
July 7th, 2003, 1:51 am
A few suspicious names:

1. Mark Evans (who btw wasn't mentioned by Fudge as being a wizard in Harry's area because he's related to Lily and is therefore probably a muggle. I think he is a relative and we'll meet him, though if he's a muggle then not at Hogwarts.)
2. Sturgis Podmore, (Patrick Delany-Podmore) Could be related? Something about F +G's headless hats and PDP being headless. Makes me wonder.
3. Fortescue-portrait guy/sundae guy. No idea how that could be relavent.

Ever notice that when Harry is having the Mr. Weasley bite vision, he was "gliding between shiny metal bars"?I just realised that those are the golden grilles from the lifts at the MoM. Just a bit of foreshadowing there about where the hallway Harry was dreaming about was.

I think goblins will definitely become more important. they're the only creature featured in the fountain that hasn't been a major part of the story lately. And Bill did mention that the Goblins are all anti-wizard around now. And that Fleur joined Gringotts. I think Bill and Fleur will have to fight the goblins. Or maybe Fudge really does want to take over Gringotts. But will he be able to now that he's admitted he was wrong?

More vampire referances too. I think somebody's definitely a vampire, even if it's not Snape.

AmbushRedCM21
August 3rd, 2003, 1:14 am
I caught many, many, many clues in GoF that foreshadowed events in OotP. However, I didn't catch any in OotP, yet. I'm sure I will find some when I reread OotP after reading Book 6.

It was amazing how many clues were in GoF. A few of them were stuff the Moody (Crouch's son) said. Stuff like telling Harry he would make a fine Auror. Or, when Fred told Ron that if he kept being nosy, he could be made a prefect.

I highly recommend rereading GoF as soon as you finish OotP. It was so much fun finding the little clues.

Also, I picked up on two things, the first was rather obvious and the second might not have been a clue at all.

The first one was when Voldemort was walking around the circle of Death Eaters. He came to a spot and said something like "6 are missing hear...3 dead...1 too cowardly to return who will pay...1 who has left me forever and he will die...and 1 of my most faithful servants who has already reentered my command." Now, that isn't exactly what he said, but the main point out of it. So, Karkaroff was the coward, Crouch Jr. was the loyal servant. Does that mean Snape was the one who has left forever...WILL SNAPE DIE??? I bet that Voldemort will come after Snape and Harry will protect him.

The second was much smaller. Ron and Harry were preparing for the second task and Harry said something about becoming and animagus. Ron said he could become a goldfish and Harry says "or a frog." Does this mean that Trevor could possibly be an animagus watching over Neville???

JK has many clues. Many, many, many clues.

whizbang121
August 3rd, 2003, 1:59 am
It's good to keep track of what Ron says, too. There used to be a thread about whether Ginny was a seer, and we couldn't seem to prove she was. But in the course of discussion, we noticed that Ron seemed to come out with things that later happened.
The first thing that comes to mind was the vision in the mirror of erisad. It isn't the mirror's purpose to show the future, but Ron's is heading in the direction of his vision.
I can't remember any others. Any one else notice Ron's offhanded remarks coming to pass later on?

FawkesFire
August 4th, 2003, 12:56 pm
Oh definitely. I remember when I was rereading CoS Ron jokes that (on Tom Riddle's award for Services to the School) "Maybe he murdered Moaning Myrtle." I nearly flipped out, because (duhr) he did. I think I read something online about how Ron's fake predictions tend to come true, and I know people have been discussing Ron's comment in Ootp where he says something like "Our chances of winning the Quidditch Cup are about the same as my dad becoming Minister of Magic" (paraphrase) which I think (since they did win the cup) definitely means Arthur's up for a promotion. :) Hasnt this been discussed in other threads though?

nitRAM
August 4th, 2003, 1:08 pm
The first one was when Voldemort was walking around the circle of Death Eaters. He came to a spot and said something like "6 are missing hear...3 dead...1 too cowardly to return who will pay...1 who has left me forever and he will die...and 1 of my most faithful servants who has already reentered my command." Now, that isn't exactly what he said, but the main point out of it. So, Karkaroff was the coward, Crouch Jr. was the loyal servant. Does that mean Snape was the one who has left forever...WILL SNAPE DIE??? I bet that Voldemort will come after Snape and Harry will protect him.

Hmm I see it the other way, Karkaroff is the one who has left and Snape is the Coward.

My reasoning for this is that Karkaroff has fled, which is the 1 who has left me forever and he will die.

I think that Snape is the cowardly one, he is still franternising with deatheaters (Malfoy especially), but is showing them that he is too scared to face Voldemort, but still wants to be part of the gang. Trouble is due to his position at the school it is difficult for him to face Voldemort.

Just my input ;)

cloud_9_83
August 5th, 2003, 4:39 am
Something about the Bones family. That family has come up for the last couple books...and even more so in the fifth. Susan Bones actually talked, and her relative was part of the trial. Seems too much to me :D

and Edgar Bones...one of the original members of the order who was murdered back in the day was amelia bones' brother...

Henry Potter
August 5th, 2003, 6:13 am
Wicked, I Can' Wait To Re-Read All Of Them, I Lent Them To My Friend, All tHis New Stuff To Think Of

Erishon
August 15th, 2003, 4:08 pm
Ok so far nobody has mentioned the only bit of foreshadowing I actually managed to notice (Either that or i have just missed it being mentioned.)

There is so much foreshadowing upon the Death of Ron.

Firstly in "The Woes of Mrs Weasley" Harry sees dead Ron lying on the ground, and actually believes he is dead. It takes a moment for him to realise that it isn't actually Ron and when read the boggart stays as Dead Ron the longest, flashing only for a second as the rest of them dead.

Secondly there's the whole thing with the veil. When Harry first sees the viel he hears voices behind it and first thinks it's Sirius (Who we know later falls to his death through the veil). However a few seconds later he thinks he can hear Ron's voice behind the veil and asks if it is him, even though Ron is standing somewhere else in the room.

So we have seen a dead Ron corpse and heard his voice the same way we heard Sirius' before his death. Ron is so going to die ::Runs away crying hysterically::

story
August 15th, 2003, 4:29 pm
Is it really Neville that is the treat to Voldemort? Harry is always asking why it is always him? Perhaps Harry being the one from the prophercy is a case of mistaken identity, or a decoy

padfootlover
August 16th, 2003, 10:09 pm
There is so much foreshadowing upon the Death of Ron.

So we have seen a dead Ron corpse and heard his voice the same way we heard Sirius' before his death. Ron is so going to die ::Runs away crying hysterically::

And what about Ron joking after the Divination exam that he didn't care if his tea leaves spell die, Ron die from now on.....

That really scares me.... :frown:

Fortescue
August 17th, 2003, 12:27 am
I think the scene in which Harry is pitying Luna is a definite example of foreshadowing. He describes it as a strong emotion rising up through his grief. I think Harry likes Luna more than he knows, and he's going to need her help in future books.

Also Hermione's comment of, "If we can't trust Dumbledore, we can't trust anyone." stuck out to me. I think Dumbledore might not be around for the end of the series.

That ten year old Mark Evans' surname is the same as Lily's maiden name was rather unnerving. I think Harry might be finding a new wizard friend at Hogwarts next year.

Interesting clues; I hope I find more!

story
August 17th, 2003, 9:53 am
When ron tries to curse Malfoy in CS, his wand is broken and the spell backfires. There is also green flash. Could this have a connection to why voldemort's spell on Harry backfired originally?

wheezes4weasleys
August 19th, 2003, 2:47 am
There are so many things foreshaddowing in this book! threstals were mentioned in the earlier books. There were characters mentioned in the previous books that are now a big part of this book, like mandugus and lovegoods.
ok let's see if i can think of some...
Arabella Figg comes back in this book and she is described to have dark gray hair, called "mad", and clanks... now does that remind you of anyone? moody! moody is described to have dark gray hair, "mad", and clunks... so are they somehow related or associated? i know JKR will not just describe someone with the same qualities...
also mark evans, 10 years old... "EVANS" big clue there. could he be entering Hogwarts next year or is he just a red herring? snape "flitting" in grimaulds place. this just adds more to my theory that snape is a vampire. harry's life long ban in quidditch... if he's still banned then that would leave ron on the team and he's going to be captain since alicia, angelina, and katie are graduating soon. so ron's "desire" in the mirror of erised will come true. the whole veil is a connection with a story of king arthur and so sirius will come back somehow, but he is still dead. lockhart will be a part of the next book, im sure of it. everyone seems to have came back in this book... the house elves will prove to be a very important part in the next books. hermione hasn't given up on her SPEW so there is a good reason that the elves will team up with the order. there's more, but i think i've typed enough.

hesdead-dealwithit
August 19th, 2003, 3:21 am
I think that the centaurs and giants will be foreshadowing a whole new war, secondary but also connected to the big war. The centaurs may fight against both sides, while the giants may be split in two.

LupinMakesMeHowl
August 19th, 2003, 4:52 am
JKR has clarified in interviews that Harry is indeed 'the one' that the prophecy talks about. Also, Dumbledore made it clear in the OotP that Voldemort marked Harry as his equal, the moment he tried to curse him.

And besides if Neville were to 'the one,' then what would be the purpose of Harry Potter being the one whom the entire series is based upon?

-Georgia-

Fortescue
August 19th, 2003, 3:07 pm
The Fountain of Magical Bretheren is a HUGE piece of foreshadowing, especially the fact that it shattered. Hopefully whoever rebuilds it (if indeed, it is rebuilt) will not have such a prejiduced view of the world. This is probably symbolizing the importance of magical cooperation.

The veil was definitely an item of foreshadowing. The fact that Ginny, Neville, Luna, and Harry were entranced by it is also important. I'm not sure, but I think that that's showing that those four are going to have some rather near-death or death encounters.

Luna says at the end of the year something along the lines of "It's not like I'm never going to see her again." in regard to her mother. I think Luna's going to die in one of the future books. That also fits with JKR's style of introducing a character, building him/her, and then killing him/her.

Those are just a few big ones I found. Tell me what you think!

Fortescue
August 19th, 2003, 3:14 pm
Oh, yes, the bartender at the Hog's Head. I think that he's Aberforth, brother of Dumbledore. Harry says he looks oddly familiar, and Harry saw his photo in Moody's shot of the original Order of the Phoenix. Also, it sort of fits what we know about his character; he was once prosecuted for "inappropriate charms on a goat." I don't think Rowling said that by accident, and this seems like a fitting theory, but there could be others.

whizbang121
August 21st, 2003, 1:50 am
And the Hoghead smelled of goats. And Aberforth can't read?! Please don't kill Luna. I like her a lot.

LittleBit
August 21st, 2003, 5:47 am
Hi there,

I think the introduction of Luna as a character is very important. She gives Harry some confirmation about the voices behind the veil. Luna comes up with ideas and insights no-one else will come up with. To me she´s like seeing in another dimension. This might proove very useful in fighting Voldemort and it already had the effect of giving Harry comfort about death. As he can be sure now to see his parents and sirius again he has nothing to fear fron death - a big advantage against Voldemort.

The prophecy is explaining itself in forshadowing something. I myself think it will be Voldemort to die. Otherwise it would be the evil to rule the world - not so good for a series of books claiming to be moral.

I could imagine the final showdown taking place in the Department of Mysteries. That locked room has something to it. (first question: how will they be able to open it if not with a knife that opens all locks?)

Also what Mc Gonagall said about helping Harry becoming an Auror is a big clue I think. She is way less distant in this book and much more human.

Hermione is starting to be a sort of inner voice of Harry, cooling him off a bit at times. That might come up again, too.

I´m not sure if that question has been answerded already, but it was Dumbledore who sent the Howler to Petunia.
O yes, Petunia. I´m not supporting the idea of her being a witch or so. I guess that her knowing about Azkaban and the dementors is rather something she heard from her sister. But she does sure know more than we thought. Maybe Lily used to be in Azkaban? (weird idea, but who knows?)

Fortescue
August 25th, 2003, 9:57 pm
Actually, contrary to you fifth theory, LittleBit I think Ginny is more of Harry's inner voice. Ginny really is starting to understand Harry, and I think Harry can sort of relate to her. She also has suffered directly at Voldemort's hands. The scene at Grimmauld Place is important. Hermione tried to cool Harry down, but she didn't manage to pull off the entire feat. Ginny was able to pull Harry out of his 'noble shell.' That might prove important.

luvsirius4ever
August 26th, 2003, 3:51 am
[QUOTE=Turambar]A couple of things stood out for me:
1) The scene where Sirius chased the train as a dog was a lot like the scene of Ginny farewelling the train in PS. Could this be foreshadowing for a future Ginny death?

~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

.....Maybe but what if u reversed it? and made it so that Ginny running alongside the train.... was like Sirius running alongside the train...and then sirius dies...'cause whenever some1 runs along side a train...they get into trouble... in CoS ginny was possesed by lord voldemort what if sirius running alongside the train was forshadowing something bad happening to him... which did happen 'cause hes dead :upset:... in any case... i hope i didn't confuse u all, or myself for that matter too much

Fortescue
August 26th, 2003, 4:02 am
That's true, or perhaps Sirius' saying farewell after the train was a way of foreshadowing that he'll chase after Harry but never catch up to him again. He died before the next summer. Ginny running after the train could have been a way to foreshadowing her trying to catch up with her brothers, but always being treated as if she was too far behind. This was true until OotP, when she took things into her own hands and went with Harry unasked. Also, running after a train is common symbolism used to represent people trying to catch up but lagging farther behind. This could mean something, too.

story
August 27th, 2003, 10:28 pm
If Ginny always wanted to go to school when Bill did, she would have been about 3. What if Ginny is not Molly and Arthur's child? perhaps she is older and the daughter of one of their other children, perhaps one killed by Voldemort?

Auror Fett
August 27th, 2003, 11:43 pm
I feel that when that fountain(Sorry, I'm re-reading book 5, I'll get that fountain right sometime!) in the Ministry of Magic got blown up(it literally did) is a sign that foreshadows something. I surely hope Ron won't die. He's a good character although I don't think he's right for Hermione as so many people say so.

Mirror of Erised
August 28th, 2003, 7:35 am
Here's one for you...

Many have mentioned Luna Lovegood, and how she has a very nice moniker for a werewolf.
Now, when Harry went to Saint Mungo's, remember when he was walking through the corridors, and saw the woman lying in bed, face full of hair (she was lying in a room where spells were extremely hard to get off of people)
What id Luna Lovegood is infact a werewolf, and Mrs. Lovegood's spell that backfired was an attempt to relieve Luna of being a werewolf before she started school???
It has been stated that Mrs.Lovegood was an awesome charm spell castor, if this is the case, maybe Mrs. Lovegood relieved Luna of werewolfdom, only to be inflicted on herself permanently (hence why she is lying in St.Mungos).

FreckledApples
August 28th, 2003, 1:18 pm
that cant be because her mother is dead thats why she can see the threastrals or what ever those animals are! good thought tho

Drusilla
August 29th, 2003, 3:18 pm
Maybe Luna's a Seer?She does seem quite out of the ordinary,so it's a possibility.

Fortescue
August 29th, 2003, 9:02 pm
I think it's possible Luna is a Seer. After all, she does say at the end of OotP, "It's not like I'll never see her again." Sort of like foreshadowing her own death. And she does seem to be rather similar to Trelawney what with her eccentric beliefs. I wonder if it's possible that most true seers don't usually know what they're talking about? And another thing, Professor Trelawney made a 'prediction' in the beginning of Book 4, saying to Harry, "Incidently, the thing you dread will come to pass, perhaps sooner than you think." or something to that effect. And what do you know? That's the year Voldemort returns. Perhaps Luna, like Trelawney, occasionally makes statements that turn out to be foreshadowing true events.

GryffindorGal
August 30th, 2003, 6:07 am
I think it's possible Luna is a Seer. After all, she does say at the end of OotP, "It's not like I'll never see her again." Sort of like foreshadowing her own death. And she does seem to be rather similar to Trelawney what with her eccentric beliefs. I wonder if it's possible that most true seers don't usually know what they're talking about?


I do agree that Luna reminds me an awful lot of Trelawney.


And another thing, Professor Trelawney made a 'prediction' in the beginning of Book 4, saying to Harry, "Incidently, the thing you dread will come to pass, perhaps sooner than you think." or something to that effect. And what do you know? That's the year Voldemort returns. Perhaps Luna, like Trelawney, occasionally makes statements that turn out to be foreshadowing true events.


I think you have your quote and book mixed up. Trelawney says to Lavender in POA that the thing that she's dreading will happen in October. It turns out her pet rabbit Binky (or Blinky) is killed by a fox.

luvsirius4ever
September 3rd, 2003, 3:56 am
No i do believe that fortescue is right...in one of the books...i can't find it now... she does say something of that nature to harry because i can remember thinking the exact same thing...what if she did really make that prediction...yet i took the thing that he dreaded to be Sirius dying... which didn't happen 'till five...so i dismissed it...but if you take it to mean LV returning.......i think we're on to something! :tu:

Moonchild
September 3rd, 2003, 3:07 pm
I think Ginny Weasley will play a vital role next to Harry, maybe not as a love interest (I'm not a shipper) but as a complement in terms of their strengths in power.

Harry is just like his father except for the eyes. Ginny has a physical resemblance to Lily Potter and we haved found out in OotP that Ginny also has the same strength in charms just like Lily.

I think we'll see a James-Lily pairing part two. But I repeat, I do not think it will be romantic.

Fortescue
September 3rd, 2003, 5:31 pm
Interesting thought, Moonchild, but then again, looks aren't everything. I mean, Harry, at age 15, is absolutely nothing like a 15 year old James. Ginny, on the other hand, does seem like Lily, and Lily probably would have liked someone like Harry at that age... I don't know. But somehow when Ginny said to Neville, "No you're not," in response to his comment about him being nobody... Well, I thought it sounded almost as though those two have some kind of connection.

BuddyBoy
September 3rd, 2003, 6:48 pm
I think that maybe Luna can "see" things other people cant.. notice how they discribe her eyes, how big and round and bulgey they are. Also, she DEFINTIELY sees things a different way than everyone else. Maybe she can see into the 2 way mirror? Or maybe she can see thru the arch?

I think that Ginny and Longbottom have a chance. Or maybe Harry and Ginny. Or Luna and Harry, or Luna and Longbottom.

I think that Ginny has ALOT up her sleeves.. I think she is as passionate as Ron, but cool and confidant, rebellious like the Twins, but not wreckless. SHe is also very good at Charms. (Like Lily!!!) and good at quidditch (like James and Harry!)

I think that Crookshanks was probably a squib watcher, until he got abandoned by a nasty squib (Petunia!!!).

Sirius83
September 3rd, 2003, 7:38 pm
I don't think I posted this in here before...it was brought up in the love thread, thought it would be interesting for Ron's future.

Page 335 of the US edition, chapter 17 near the start. Emphasis is mine.

"Let's go and tell her," said Ron. He bounded forward, pulled open the door, and set off up the spiral staircase.
He was on the sixth stair when it happened. There was a loud, wailing, klaxonlike sound and the steps melted together to make a long, smooth stone slide. There was a brief moment when Ron tried to keep running, arms working madly like windmills, then he toppled over backward and shot down the newly created slide, coming to rest on his back at Harry's feet.

He goes to get Hermione...now let's look at what happens after. Sixth stair...sixth book? Toppled over backward and shot down...he's shot down for something? Lands at Harry's feet...the imagery is he's lost and Harry's looking down at him. See the thing is, JKR didn't need to tell us about the sixth stair. That drew a lot of attention to the passage for me. Well, just some food for thought, have fun. :p

Fortescue
September 3rd, 2003, 9:26 pm
That could have significance in the "relationship business," but it could always signify something greater than that. Perhaps Ron's going to try and save Hermione from some danger and he gets prevented? But that's a really good catch... Ach, finding new pieces of foreshadowing makes everything more confusing. Hehe.

BuddyBoy
September 3rd, 2003, 9:32 pm
I dont know if this qualifies as foreshadowing.. but..

okay.. you know how everyone is drawing correlations between Harry/Voldemort/Neville/Bellatrix?

I dontkno wthe significance of this, but it popped into my mind.

Have any of you every played the game called "Little Green Fuzzies"? What do those three wods have in common?

Look at this:

Harry Potter
Neville Longbottom

Tom Marvolo Riddle
Bellatrix Lestrange.

I dont know if the use of double letters in names is coincidental or delibarate... but think of others..

Ginny Weasly
Luna Lovegood

hm....

Hpmons
September 3rd, 2003, 9:54 pm
They are simply coincidences I think. Loads of peoples names in real life have double letters.

All the things I "forshadowed" were explained on the next page, so there wasnt much I could boast about it!
I guessed that Regulus Black was a DE as soon as I saw his name (but a paragraph later that was explained) and I guessed that Arthur had been fiddling with muggle medicine (explained on the next page).

The only thing I did properly do (which was still quite minor) is gues that Bode was under the Imperius Curse (beware of the words "blankly" and "unblinkingly"!), but I later forgot all about it (I have a terrible memory).

Duckie
September 4th, 2003, 1:02 pm
I think the mirror Sirius gave Harry will become important. The story could have just as easily been told without that little bit of nothing. At the end of the book, he tosses it and it breaks. But where did he toss it so angrily? In his trunk. Then he packed the rest of his stuff on top. He now has several pieces of the one mirror. Do you suppose that if he had a piece and Ron had a piece, the two of them might be able to communicate? It could be helpful in the future.

whizbang121
September 4th, 2003, 2:47 pm
Or maybe Herione could repair Harry's broken mirror and they would find Sirius' mirror back at Grimmauld Place. Maybe Buckbeak is guarding it.

Sirius83
September 4th, 2003, 7:09 pm
Here's another bit that could be foreshadowing. In the Department of Mysteries scene of OOTP, the hextet splits up into two trios. However, one was not the standard Harry/Ron/Hermione trio at all. Instead, we got Harry/Hermione/Neville and Ron/Ginny/Luna. That caught my eye and could very well be a glimpse of what happens to them in book 6.

story
September 4th, 2003, 9:51 pm
Moody in GF says Rons dad should know all about the imperious curse, and Fred or George say their dad went to Azkaban once. Wonder if a member of the Weasley family was sent to Azkaban?

satisverborum
September 4th, 2003, 10:37 pm
I wouldn't be suprised if it turns out that crabbe or goyle is the cousin of pasny parkinson.

*LOL*

Megwin
September 5th, 2003, 6:18 am
I totally forgot about the melted knife... Good one! These books are so filled with foreshadowing that we could talk about it for eternity. The thing about Dumbledore being Harry's great great grandfather or whatever is interesting...never thought of that. Anyway, I believe: the boggart thing with Molly will come true, sort of. She will be the one to die, saving someone else. (Harry? She saw his dead body too, right?) Another thing: Grawp will become important. There is absolutely a reason that JKR put him into this book, and I would bet a million galleons that it wasn't to save Hermione and Harry. And how about this- Harry as a teacher! At the DA meeting, I belive it was Cho who remarked what a wonderful teacher Harry was. Perhaps he will permanently fill the DADA job? Makes sense to me anyway... Lastly, I am still waiting for Crookshanks to reveal his true self. (Think back to his behavior in PoA for proof of his superiority to other cats...)
i'm really interested in crookshanks and why the description between he and mundungus is so simmilar...there must be somthing between them but the've been in the same room together so i just don't know.

Stncold
September 5th, 2003, 7:00 am
I wouldn't be suprised if it turns out that crabbe or goyle is the cousin of pasny parkinson.

*LOL*

*shudder* then again, there is a resemblance, i think

Fortescue
September 12th, 2003, 10:46 pm
Crookshanks has some interesting symbolism, I think. It's kind of foreshadowing something that's seemingly weak turning into a big thing. Sort of like Ginny. We thought she was just this sometimes annoying little girl, and in Book 5 she was really awesome.

Astraea
September 13th, 2003, 12:44 am
Dumbledore calls them "Tom" and "Harry":

Professor Dumbledore never calls Harry Potter "The Boy Who Lived, " or "The One." He is simply Harry Potter; though he has been chosen to play an important role in the course of wizard events. He is "the One with the power to vanquish the Dark Lord," the embodiment of Good defeating Evil. The wielder of the power, and in a sense the very weapon, to secure triumph over the Dark Lord.

But being "The One" does not define Harry Potter. It is a role he must fulfill, not who he is. And Dumbledore calls him "Harry."

Dumbledore calls another former student by his first name too: Tom Riddle. Tom Morvolo Riddle, "The Dark Lord," "Lord Voldermort." More aliases. More roles to fulfill. But being the "Dark Lord" does not completely define Tom Riddle, just as it does not define Harry Potter. Tom Riddle is an orphan, a half-blood, a bright student, a talented wizard, the heir to Slytherin; to many, he is the embodiment of Evil. And yet Dumbledore calls him "Tom."

"The ONE with the power to VANQUISH The DARK LORD":

The much discussed prophecy which sets the role's Tom and Harry must play is very deliberate in it's construction (read http://www.mugglenet.com/editorials/thenorthtower/nt01.shtml for a more detailed analysis).

There are two very important points which most have overlooked, reading the prophecy at face value: No names are ever mentioned, and "Vanquish" does not mean kill.

The use of aliases in the prophecy instead of names has many ramifications. First, it allows for choice, in the case of the Dark Lord; he must choose The One, he is not destined to be. Second, the "and either must die at the hand of the other for neither can live while the other survives" clause. Many, replacing names for aliases, directly interpret this to mean that one must kill the other. Indeed, this is the very assumption Harry and Dumbledore make (pg. 841, OotP, american).

But that is not what the prophecy says: it foretells the death of The One or The Dark Lord, the Alias, the Role, the Good or the Evil. Not Harry or Tom. This is an important nuance, for it opens the door to both Harry and Tom surviving their battle, to an extent.

The idea that Death is not a requirement of the prophecy is backed up even further by the use of the term "Vanquish." The prophecy both begins and ends with "The One with the power to Vanquish The Dark Lord...." Redundancy is key. Vanquish is defined as "to defeat or conquer in battle," and has synonyms "beat, conquer, humble, overcome, put down, reduce, repress, subdue, triumph over." None of these terms refer to death, dying, or injury. Instead, they suggest that The One is to humble, subdue, repress, and triumph over The Dark Lord; Good is supposed to trump Evil; The One is the method of subduing The Dark Lord; The One is the method of repressing the Dark Lord....

"Merely taking your life would not satisfy me, i admit":

Let's back up to Book 4 for a moment, when Voldermort returns to human form, and Dumbledore's gleam of triumph. When Voldermort didn't have a body, he wasn't human. He had to posses others to survive: Quirell, snakes, etc, he was more Voldermort and less Tom than ever, a spirit of evil. In his return, he created a new human body, one from the bones of his father, with blood from Harry Potter. And Dumbledore celebrated: Voldermort was human again. Tom Riddle was back. Dumbledore stops calling The Dark Lord, Voldermort, and starts calling him Tom.

In their battle in the Ministry of Magic, Dumbledore openly refers to Voldermort as "Tom." Voldermort wasn't expecting Dumbledore, and Dumbledore doesn't seem troubled with fighting Tom.

"'You do not seek to kill me, Dumbledore?' called Voltdermort... 'We both know there are other ways of destroying a man, Tom' Dumbledore said calmly... 'Merely taking your life would not satisfy me, I admit '" pg. 814.

Dumbledore does not want Tom dead. He wants him to pay for his crimes as Voldermort. Dumbledore wants Voldermort to die, but Tom to remain. The Evil must be destroyed so the Human can prevail.

Who is fighting Whom? And what are they fighting with?

Harry, as The One, must vanquish The Dark Lord; his life as Harry may not truly begin until he does.

The larger battle for Good and Evil in the wizard world is however not between Harry and Voldermort, it is between Dumbledore and Tom.

Voldermort doesn't hesitate to try to kill Harry Potter, in fact, he tries several times; he also uses Harry to get to Dumbledore. Dumbledore protects Harry, and will use him to destroy Voldermort to get to Tom.

The Prophecy requires Harry, the War requires Dumbledore.

story
September 13th, 2003, 1:21 am
I wounder if Voldemort has even harmed someone in Dubledore's family?

whizbang121
September 13th, 2003, 6:11 am
Here's another bit that could be foreshadowing. In the Department of Mysteries scene of OOTP, the hextet splits up into two trios. However, one was not the standard Harry/Ron/Hermione trio at all. Instead, we got Harry/Hermione/Neville and Ron/Ginny/Luna. That caught my eye and could very well be a glimpse of what happens to them in book 6.

You know, I noticed that but didn't give it much thought.
Hmmmmm..............
Any ideas why they were split up that way?

-=-=-=-=******-=-=-=-=-=*****-=-=-=-=-=



Dumbledore calls them "Tom" and "Harry":


But being "The One" does not define Harry Potter. It is a role he must fulfill, not who he is. And Dumbledore calls him "Harry."

Dumbledore calls another former student by his first name too: Tom Riddle. Tom Morvolo Riddle, "The Dark Lord," "Lord Voldermort." More aliases. More roles to fulfill. But being the "Dark Lord" does not completely define Tom Riddle, just as it does not define Harry Potter. Tom Riddle is an orphan, a half-blood, a bright student, a talented wizard, the heir to Slytherin; to many, he is the embodiment of Evil. And yet Dumbledore calls him "Tom."

"The ONE with the power to VANQUISH The DARK LORD":

There are two very important points which most have overlooked, reading the prophecy at face value: No names are ever mentioned, and "Vanquish" does not mean kill.

The use of aliases in the prophecy instead of names has many ramifications. First, it allows for choice, in the case of the Dark Lord; he must choose The One, he is not destined to be.


Well, I respectfully disagree with the first point. The one was chosen before the prophesy was made. The Dark Lord merely identified him when he chose to try and kill him. But I could easily be wrong. We won't know for a while. :)


Second, the "and either must die at the hand of the other for neither can live while the other survives" clause. Many, replacing names for aliases, directly interpret this to mean that one must kill the other. Indeed, this is the very assumption Harry and Dumbledore make (pg. 841, OotP, american).
But that is not what the prophecy says: it foretells the death of The One or The Dark Lord, the Alias, the Role, the Good or the Evil. Not Harry or Tom. This is an important nuance, for it opens the door to both Harry and Tom surviving their battle, to an extent.

So Dumbledore is essentially misinterpreting the prophecy.

The idea that Death is not a requirement of the prophecy is backed up even further by the use of the term "Vanquish." The prophecy both begins and ends with "The One with the power to Vanquish The Dark Lord...." Redundancy is key. Vanquish is defined as "to defeat or conquer in battle," and has synonyms "beat, conquer, humble, overcome, put down, reduce, repress, subdue, triumph over." None of these terms refer to death, dying, or injury. Instead, they suggest that The One is to humble, subdue, repress, and triumph over The Dark Lord; Good is supposed to trump Evil; The One is the method of subduing The Dark Lord; The One is the method of repressing the Dark Lord....

"The one" is the method? Or "the power" is? The prophecy states "...the one with the power to vanquish the dark lord approaches...." The one has the power, the power will vanquish. Now that I'm looking at this, it doesn't say "the one" who wields "the power." It only says the one has the power.
So, maybe you're on to something and Dumbledore will actually wield the power in Harry. But so far, the plot doesn't seem to be moving in that direction. Does it? :shrug:

"Merely taking your life would not satisfy me, i admit":

Let's back up to Book 4 for a moment, when Voldermort returns to human form, and Dumbledore's gleam of triumph. When Voldermort didn't have a body, he wasn't human. He had to posses others to survive: Quirell, snakes, etc, he was more Voldermort and less Tom than ever, a spirit of evil. In his return, he created a new human body, one from the bones of his father, with blood from Harry Potter. And Dumbledore celebrated: Voldermort was human again. Tom Riddle was back. Dumbledore stops calling The Dark Lord, Voldermort, and starts calling him Tom.

I wonder if it's significant that Tom throws nothing of his mother, the heir of Slytherin, into the new body recipe.



In their battle in the Ministry of Magic, Dumbledore openly refers to Voldermort as "Tom." Voldermort wasn't expecting Dumbledore, and Dumbledore doesn't seem troubled with fighting Tom.

"'You do not seek to kill me, Dumbledore?' called Voltdermort... 'We both know there are other ways of destroying a man, Tom' Dumbledore said calmly... 'Merely taking your life would not satisfy me, I admit '" pg. 814.

Dumbledore does not want Tom dead. He wants him to pay for his crimes as Voldermort. Dumbledore wants Voldermort to die, but Tom to remain. The Evil must be destroyed so the Human can prevail.


What about Tom's failure to comprehend that there are worse things than death? What if he is already worse than dead, and killing him would actually be doing him a favor, though in his terror of death, Tom wouldn't see it that way. Tom's being worse that dead would also explain how in spite of the phrase, 'neither may live while the other survives..." they do both seem to survive. All his dabbling in immortality must have rendered him 'worse than dead' long ago.


Who is fighting Whom? And what are they fighting with?

Harry, as The One, must vanquish The Dark Lord; his life as Harry may not truly begin until he does.

The larger battle for Good and Evil in the wizard world is however not between Harry and Voldermort, it is between Dumbledore and Tom.

Voldermort doesn't hesitate to try to kill Harry Potter, in fact, he tries several times; he also uses Harry to get to Dumbledore. Dumbledore protects Harry, and will use him to destroy Voldermort to get to Tom.

The Prophecy requires Harry, the War requires Dumbledore.

Interesting idea. But hasn't Dumbledore already met his nemesis in Grindelwald? Still.....
Perhaps this ties in with the power the Dark Lord knows not, too. The obvious assumption is that the power is love. But it would have to be a very extraordinary love, not the garden variety love that exists between humans. If that's the case, (and I'm not sure it is), perhaps vanquishing the Dark Lord will actually set Tom free to pursue his next great adventure?
All conjecture on my part. ;)

Niffler_8882
December 26th, 2003, 6:29 pm
Its really important to take a good look at Ron's jokes..it seems that whenever he jokes around..well..he is kinda telling the truth. There is an example in CoS..i can't really remember where but its says something like:

'Maybe he got thrity O.W.Ls or saved a teacher from the Giant Squid. Maybe he murdered Myrtle, that would've done everyone a favour.'

Niffler_8882
December 26th, 2003, 6:51 pm
Sorry...gotta add some more stuff that i thought of. Firstly, about Dumbledore being the great great great great grandfather of Harry: That is very plausible. When Harry goes into T.M.R.'s memory in CoS, he sees that DD has Auburn Hair...LIKE HARRY'S MOM! This could mean there is some kinda distant relation. For example, one of Dumbledore's relatives gave birth to a squib and these squibs gave birth to a bunch of other muggle kids and then some turned out to be muggleborns...such as Lily Evans and possibly MARK EVANS! That one solved..

Next: The stuff with Luna Lovegood. I read in a different thread that there is a big chance that she could be a seer!! There are a lot of clues that lead me and others to believe this. 1) in the Department of Mysteries she doesn't get hurt: She may have foreseen ways in which to avoid getting hurt 2) When the Inquisitorial Guard and Umbridge had caught the six people (Harry, Ron, Hermy, Luna, Neville, and Ginny) trying to seek Sirius in the fire, Luna sits by the window looking bored..almost as if she knows what is going to happen. 3) She worships Ron! Maybe in the end of the series, Ron turns out to be some kind of hero that saves Harry (it is very noticeable that she likes Harry). If Ron 'saves the day' and she is head over heals for ron, then maybe this means that she is a seer. 4) Finally (oh yeah there is one more but i cant remember it) she covers her face with the magazine BEFORE the Mimbulus Mimbeltonia sprays Stink Sap. 5) oh yah remembered: When, at the end of the year, she has lost all her things because people think she is LOONY she is positive that they will come back. How is she this positive? SHE IS A SEER!

OrbitingElle
December 31st, 2003, 1:33 am
I posted this in the "who will die" thread a while ago because I thought it was interesting...

When Harry is coming downstairs on the morning of his hearing, he comes down the hallway and hears voices on the other side of it "almost as if they are waiting for him."

Then he thinks he hears muttered voices behind the veil.

I have a vague theory that the people who are on the other side of the door in the kitchen might be the ones who end up "on the other side of the veil" at the end. It's Mr. & Mrs. Weasley, Sirius, and some others I think.

thinkpink38
January 3rd, 2004, 3:44 am
I think alot of the names forshadow what will happen in the future.
Niffler_882, that makes sense, I think she could be a seer as well, I never thought about that way! How else would she know all that if she isnt a seer?

Shinda
January 7th, 2004, 5:25 am
Okie not sure if someones mentioned this or not cause there are soooooooooooo many forums on foreshadowing and prophecy and stuff and not even sure if i should put this here but....

i was rereading POA, you know to get myself hyped up again ( :lol: ) and i read something that Trelawney says in their first Divination lesson which was quite interesting.....

"Many witches and wizzards, talented though they are in their loud bangs and smells and sudden disappearings, are yet unable to penetrate the veiled mysteries of the future."

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm, an insight into OOTP or something deeper, who knows. Any ideas? Maybe it's nothing and I'm reading too much into it cause I know what happenes in OOTP but I thought I'd mention :D Megz xx

SnowyOwl
January 11th, 2004, 12:20 am
I think the caved-in passageway to Hogsmeade located behind the large mirror on the fourth floor is going to be used again. We have Fred and George talking about it in book 3 and Sirius talking about it in book 5 (when he is suggesting where the D.A. can practice). Harry mentions again that it is completely blocked. Well, Wormtail WAS a Marauder and would know about this passageway. I think it highly likely that this passage will be used by the baddies.

giantsquid11
January 11th, 2004, 2:21 am
Wow SnowyOwl- I hadn't thought of that! Since Wormatail is able to transform into a rat its quite likely he would be able to wriggle through that caved in passage and sneak into Hogwarts! I wonder how he will use that information...

whizbang121
January 11th, 2004, 5:13 am
Good thought SnowyOwl.

Field
January 12th, 2004, 7:52 pm
A couple of things stood out for me:
1) The scene where Sirius chased the train as a dog was a lot like the scene of Ginny farewelling the train in PS. Could this be foreshadowing for a future Ginny death?

2) The news that the sorting hat thought about putting Hermione in Ravenclaw but then decided on Gryffindor. It thought about putting Harry in Slytherin but then put him in Gryffindor. That 's three of the four houses. Both Harry and Hermione are notable for their loyalty - a chief chracteristic of the other house, Hufflepuff. So combined they symbolically represent the four houses.
Jesus, I was thinknig about this, NICE JOB. very very good.

GryffindorGr
January 12th, 2004, 10:49 pm
Originally Posted by Turambar
A couple of things stood out for me:
1) The scene where Sirius chased the train as a dog was a lot like the scene of Ginny farewelling the train in PS. Could this be foreshadowing for a future Ginny death?

2) The news that the sorting hat thought about putting Hermione in Ravenclaw but then decided on Gryffindor. It thought about putting Harry in Slytherin but then put him in Gryffindor. That 's three of the four houses. Both Harry and Hermione are notable for their loyalty - a chief chracteristic of the other house, Hufflepuff. So combined they symbolically represent the four houses.


The first part is speculation but also could foreshadow that Ginny is an animagus dog. hey could be either one. why not? I dont think she dies though.

the 2nd part is speculation again because Hermione also has slytherin tendancies. Where does Harry represent ravenclaw? He doenst even pay attention to detail when it comes to studying. There's nothing about him having that in him. Ron would be more hufflepuff I believe.

SnowyOwl
that would be interesting indeed! yes. And someone could become a "small" animagus and get through. Cool.

SnowyOwl
January 14th, 2004, 9:38 pm
I would think that even if Wormtail was able to fit through the caved-in passageway (nice idea, giantsquid), it would only be for the purpose of assessing the damage. I think the passage will be cleared out.

Hmmm...I guess it's always possible that if Wormtail could fit through, he could bring information to the "junior deatheaters."

Obviously,I see this as more of a benefit-the-bad-guys plot device.

Nephel
January 14th, 2004, 10:47 pm
Good point SnowyOwl. And since Fred and George arent in Hoggys anymore, I dont the the passage ways will be used as much, so they wont be checked as much.

onetruegryffindor
January 14th, 2004, 10:49 pm
aah fred and george....

its an amazing idea

Izzieq
January 14th, 2004, 10:50 pm
There is such an emphasis on Lily's eyes and her eyes being green and Harry having his mother's eyes. I think the mention of green has something to do with Harry's defeat of Voldemort. Isn't it green sparks shooting when the Avada Kedavra is done? Could this foreshadow that Harry will use this killing curse on Voldemort? Also, I head somewhere that the 6th book might be called something like The Green Flamed Torch.

Just a side note: Kedavra is really close to cadavel, which is Spanish for corpse.

Nephel
January 14th, 2004, 10:56 pm
What does Avada mean? I heard that either Voldemorte or Avada Kadavra means "flight of death" cant remember which one. About the eye colours, aswell, why does Lilly (gryffindor) have green (slytherin) eyes and LV(Slytherin) have red eyes (gryffindor)?

And in OoTP Cornelius says something like this when he catches the DA "Lets hear his latest cock n bull story".....does it involve a reversal of time and a dead man coming back to life?" ---> Sirius

WeasleyIsOurKing
January 15th, 2004, 12:54 am
What does Avada mean? I heard that either Voldemorte or Avada Kadavra means "flight of death" cant remember which one. About the eye colours, aswell, why does Lilly (gryffindor) have green (slytherin) eyes and LV(Slytherin) have red eyes (gryffindor)?

I'm not sure about Lily's eyes - she was probably born with them for all we know - but Voldemort's eyes probably just turned red because of all the transformations he went though... I think Gryffindor's red is more of a scarlet anyway and his are a vivid green.

The first part is speculation but also could foreshadow that Ginny is an animagus dog. hey could be either one. why not? I dont think she dies though.

I think it's more likely that were she to become an Animagus, she'd be cat. There are numerous cat references about her in OotP. :eyebrows:

story
January 15th, 2004, 1:53 am
AK is abra cadabra - however you spell it. The words that some magicians use

Avalon
January 15th, 2004, 2:57 am
I don't think I posted this in here before...it was brought up in the love thread, thought it would be interesting for Ron's future.

Page 335 of the US edition, chapter 17 near the start. Emphasis is mine.



He goes to get Hermione...now let's look at what happens after. Sixth stair...sixth book? Toppled over backward and shot down...he's shot down for something? Lands at Harry's feet...the imagery is he's lost and Harry's looking down at him. See the thing is, JKR didn't need to tell us about the sixth stair. That drew a lot of attention to the passage for me. Well, just some food for thought, have fun. :p

That reminds me the number 6 comes up often, I'm not sure if this has been brought up before for discussion but I've found a few examples.

Book One

Harry wakes at 6 in the morning to get the post
Hagrid slides six sausages off the poker, when he meets Harry for the first time
Ron is the sixth in the family to go to Hogwarts and is the sixth child
Ron has about six cards of Morgana
Slytherin has won the house cup six years in a row
Fluffy has 6 eyes
6 owls carry Harry’s first broom in
Quidditch has 6 hoops

Book Two
Harry jumps down 6 steps when going after Dobby at the Dursleys
They fit 6 trunks into their car on the way to the train
Lockhart spent 6 months on the best-seller list
When Sir Nick was petrified, he hovered 6 inches off the floor
They all had to be in their common rooms by 6 in the evening

Book Three
Harry thought that Lupin's anti-dementor classes were more draining than 6 quidditch practices
Hagrid asked them to have tea at 6 with him [isn't tea usually at 4?]
When Harry is invisible and throws mud at Draco, Malfoy points to a place 6 ft from Harry
Buckbeak was to be executed on the sixth of June

Book Four
The twins spent 6 months developing their toffees
The blast-ended skrewts are 6 inches long the first time they see them
In Chapter 14, Neville melts his 6th cauldron in potions
They are not to learn about illegal curses 'til their sixth yr
At 6 in the evening the kids from Beuxbatons arrive at Hogwarts
Karkaroff says Moody finds the morning wasted if he hasn't found 6 plots to murder him
6 house-elves bring tea, while they are in the kitchens
When Hagrid was 6 he lift his dad
The Marauders map falls out of Harry's hand and slid down 6 stairs
They do human transfiguration in sixth year [I think this is important]
Winky goes through 6 bottles of butterbeer a day
Moody spent 6 months tracking down Karkaroff for his trial as a DE
There are 6 missing DE from Volde's circle


That's all I could type for now, but there are others
Wonder if it all means something...

Avalon
January 15th, 2004, 2:57 am
My last post on the number 6, made me wonder if how the other characters behaved at the age of 16 would give us any idea of Harry at 16, since that is the age he will be during book 6.

Tom riddle was 16 is his memory diary, the age he opened the chamber
Sirius pulled the infamous joke on Snape at 16, which also means that at 16 James saves Severus ,and thus creates that life long debt for Snape.
The twins are 16 during the Goblet of fire and are already inventing to say the least.
Bertha is 16 is DD’s pensieve

My humble guess is that it’s going to be a big year for Harry, based on all the important things that have happened to others at this age.

shawntat
January 15th, 2004, 3:43 am
Hem hem. One more thing before I leave everyone be for the evening. Did anyone else notice the part where Harry first arrived at the noble House of Black? He walked in and everyone was whispering; he didn't know why. And he thought to himself that with everyone whispering it felt as though he had walked into the house of a dying person. Well, it was Sirius' house, and he did end up dying. That seems a little to clean to be coincidental to me.
Great catch, I did not even think about that one.

AletheiaVerita
January 15th, 2004, 12:46 pm
ok. so maybe its that I am up waaay too late (its 6:35 am) or maybe its that I have been studying too hard and my brain is fried. either way I have thought of something and its never occured to me before. Dumbledore tells Harry that Voldy can't touch him because of the protection of his mothers love right, and the blood of hers that flows through his veins. THEN: voldy takes some of Harry's blood when he returns to being a full being again. and Dumble dore has a look of Triumph in his eyes. NOW. this is not news to anyone.. however.. its occured to me that perhaps the look of triumph was that voldy recognized that he couldnt touch Harry when he tried to take the sorcerer's stone from him through Quirrel, and that is why he wanted to have his blood, so that not ONLY would he be able to touch Harry... but also... think about this: Harry gained some of voldy's qualities and talents when he defeated him as a baby... what if voldy gained the protection of Harry's mother from taking his blood?
I could be completely off base. but its food for thought. munch away.:huh:

GryffindorGr
January 15th, 2004, 6:22 pm
I'm not sure about Lily's eyes - she was probably born with them for all we know - but Voldemort's eyes probably just turned red because of all the transformations he went though... I think Gryffindor's red is more of a scarlet anyway and his are a vivid green.



I think it's more likely that were she to become an Animagus, she'd be cat. There are numerous cat references about her in OotP. :eyebrows:

Upon looking up the name Lily, it comes from various themes, and especially from Mayan mythology; purity and symbolizes life and re-birth.

As for Ginny being referred to a cat, I'm not so sure about that, but it's not an impossibility. No one in the Weasley family has been an animagus yet have they? Charlie, Percy and Fred and the twins would have been one by now would they have not?


Originally Posted by silveria
Hem hem. One more thing before I leave everyone be for the evening. Did anyone else notice the part where Harry first arrived at the noble House of Black? He walked in and everyone was whispering; he didn't know why. And he thought to himself that with everyone whispering it felt as though he had walked into the house of a dying person. Well, it was Sirius' house, and he did end up dying. That seems a little to clean to be coincidental to me.


also that he was carrying a bag of dead rats. I dont know if thats any significance. Since his connection with rats = Peter Wormtail, and that he hasn't been really relieved of his crimes.

About the number 6 mentioned above, well, since JKR uses a lot of astronomy and astrology too, it would be the month of June. June represents Gemini, the twins, Twins come from the name of Tom Riddle.

Mirtilla
January 17th, 2004, 9:40 pm
I think that all Harry' dreams are pretty Foreshadowing:
In PS/SS Harry dreamed about Snape-Quirrel-Malfoy in particular he dreamed something about Quirrel's turban, again that dream was pretty Foreshadowing since at the end was Quirrel the "bad guy" and not Snape as we guessed.

JKR has also set her clues in GoF to make us guess about a possibily bond between Harry and Neville.
Think about one of Harry's dreams: In GoF Harry dreams about Neville, he clearly dreamed that Neville was the seeker of gryffindor, now I have always thought that was a funny dream but honestly after ootp it makes more sense in fact Neville could have been Harry, could have been the one, instead Voldemort chooses Harry because he saw in Harry himself. So I think that in HP "everything is written for a reason", a good reason I might added, that dreams was pretty Foreshadowing even if after gof no one take that dream too seriously.
Now about Neville in PS/SS Neville accompaniied Harry in some "adventure" or at least is present: in the forest we have Draco-Neville-Harry-Hermione . and in the Norbert adventure we have again Draco-Neville-Harry-Hermione, in ootp we have again Neville-Harry-Hermione
and after Harry-Neville, so there is a tendence to put sometimes Harry with Neville and Hermione.
Going back to Harry's dreams in ootp he dreams about Cho turning in Hermione, I consider it Foreshadowing or at least could be since Harry's previous dream has been Foreshadowing in some way, not in a clearly way but still Foreshadowing.

Turambar , good point about the house, I have thought something along these lines too, I mean it's nteresting that Harry could have been is Slytherin while Hermione in Ravenclaw instead they become Gryffindor.

Bye

Mirtilla

GryffindorGr
January 18th, 2004, 12:08 am
I have this other thought.

In GoF there was a foreshadowing. Mercury in Harry’s chart. This is an indicator to Harry’s betrayer will be/happen.
I don’t have the exact quote but something about Mercury and Venus is in the 12th house.
Okay, what happened in OotP, predicts this. For example, when Kreacher told on Sirius Blacks to the Malfoys, he had betrayed his master, for Kreacher had more than one master, he had 2, the other was Narcissa Black, whom he had respect for but he didn’t betray the Order.

Wasn’t it that Dumbledore said, that what’s worse than treating someone with hatred is treating someone with indifference and neglect? It’s essentially worse. So Harry was confused, thinking Sirius hated Kreacher but on the contrary, Sirius thought nothing much of Kreacher, therefore there was a bitterness developing inside Kreacher for all those years. What better way to tip off his master’s neglect and indifference to the enemy, emptying his own hatred and bitterness?
And Venus in the 12th house means to love someone who is a criminal in the eyes of the world, yet is misunderstood and possesses a heart of gold. This certainly applies to Sirius Black. Harry’s love for his god father and knowing truly Sirius had those good qualities despite his criminal record.

http://groups.msn.com/interpretations4/venusin12th1.msnw
Excerpt:
Venus in the 12th also suggests the love of anything subtle, hidden, intangible or hard to grasp. Spend a rainy afternoon listening to Debussy, and you will glimpse something of th enature of this placement. Some may literally fall in love with a person who isn't free, and in true 12th house fashion the relationship may have to be kept hidden, lived within restrictions, or ultimately given up. (In the 12th, Venus loves to make sacrifices for love.) Venus in the 12th also denotes the love of what other people reject; the love of the downtrodden, the underdog, the criminal who really has a heart of gold, the person nobody else understands, etc..


Now what is interesting about this, is that in GoF, it says Mercury and Mercury is aligned to the astrological sign of Gemini, which are the twins and that goes to Tom Riddles name. And the flaw here is that Kreacher was NOT Harry’s friend nor even considered one. But listen to this, the parallel is so clear. Someone betrayed Black, someone that Black was suppose to consider a loyal servant but thought nothing more of him but an annoying old grouch who reminded him of his old home. No friendly reminders.
(And may be another reason why Peter Pettigrew betrayed James Potter and Sirius Black)
So—is this the prediction that stops here or is there something that is going to be more to it? Something that will really affect Harry in the upcoming future? Someone who he considers a friend as Sirius Black would have considered Kreacher as a loyal servant if Black had treated him fairly?

Now my suggestion here is who does Harry consider a friend but neglects and treats with indifference? Hermione? Ron? No, he doesn’t treat them unfairly, infact he shows how much he cares for them. Will this be repeated and then the prediction just like Sirius Black will happen? Therefore someone who in his chart (Venus in the 12th house) the bad guy in the eyes of the world has actually a heart of gold just like Sirius Black? And therefore, who will betray Harry to Tom Riddle?

Far fetched foreshadowing? Probably but it was a good try. :)

whizbang121
June 18th, 2004, 9:31 pm
The only person I can think of who fits the description is Neville. Unless it's a ghost or ..... Winky? Who does Harry trust and in fact love, who he takes little notice of but who will betray him to the Dark Lord?


gasp Molly Weasley!
Wow! Ive suspected for some time she was Voldemort's "most trusted servant," but this puts a new spin on things. :agree:

story
June 19th, 2004, 12:34 am
What about Dudley?

hermione44
June 19th, 2004, 1:11 am
Here's one for you...

Many have mentioned Luna Lovegood, and how she has a very nice moniker for a werewolf.
Now, when Harry went to Saint Mungo's, remember when he was walking through the corridors, and saw the woman lying in bed, face full of hair (she was lying in a room where spells were extremely hard to get off of people)
What id Luna Lovegood is infact a werewolf, and Mrs. Lovegood's spell that backfired was an attempt to relieve Luna of being a werewolf before she started school???
It has been stated that Mrs.Lovegood was an awesome charm spell castor, if this is the case, maybe Mrs. Lovegood relieved Luna of werewolfdom, only to be inflicted on herself permanently (hence why she is lying in St.Mungos).

I know that this post was quite a while back, but all the way back in SS, Lockhart talks about how "he" put a homorphus charm on a werewolf, and saved a man from becoming a werewolf every month. So maybe she tried this charm on Luna, and it backfired. Also if there is such a charm, I wonder why Lupin doesn't use it.

Andos
June 19th, 2004, 2:14 am
I also think the McGonnigal comment to Harry about becoming an Auror is important. She said that becoming an Auror is a three-year process and that no-one had started to become an Auror in the past three years. Interesting to make the point that there were currently NO Aurors in training. And there had been no Defence Against the Dark Arts classes during the last year.... I take this to mean that if anything happened to the current Aurors, then it would be up to Harry and his Dumbledore's Army to stand up to the Death Eaters.

Padfoot471
June 19th, 2004, 5:27 am
someone mentioned earlier about the fountain of magical brethren or sumthing like that

could that possibly be the good side taken in the war? knowing JK this could be possible

mevam
June 19th, 2004, 5:44 am
Unless JKR just decided to throw in Luna last minute, why haven't we seen her around before? She's certainly eccentric enough to be noticed, so this made me wonder if perhaps Luna went to some other wizarding school before Hogwarts and was expelled for "experimenting" like her mother did. When Ginny introduces Luna to us in OOTP, she only tells us that she's in Ravenclaw, and not that Luna has been her school mate since she began studying at Hogwarts:
'I'm nobody', said Neville hurriedly.

'No you're not', said Ginny sharply. 'Neville Longbottom - Luna Lovegood. Luna's in my year, but in Ravenclaw.'

'Wit beyond measure is man's greatest treasure', said Luna in a singsong voice.


Or perhaps Luna's father's The Quibbler went a bit too far with one of her old headmasters or headmistresses, and forced her to switch to Hogwarts? It would certainly be a good coverup for JKR to throw in.

herbertsandbach
June 19th, 2004, 10:55 am
Fabian and Gideon,Fred and George, Parvati and Padma there's to many references to twins,gemini and June for them not to be important in some way. Not quite sure how though. Padma and Pavarti are names of Hindu gods aren't they. Anyone know who these gods are ? and what they do/did etc ? any relevance.

Volition
June 19th, 2004, 11:03 am
Or perhaps Luna's father's The Quibbler went a bit too far with one of her old headmasters or headmistresses, and forced her to switch to Hogwarts? It would certainly be a good coverup for JKR to throw in.

I thought that Hogwarts didn't accept transfers

willowwand
June 19th, 2004, 10:40 pm
Yes, and does anyone remember that bit in Sorceror's Stone where Hagrid mentioned all the prominent wizarding families murdered by Voldemort? The Bones, the McKinnons, the Prewetts, the Lovegoods . . . maybe Luna's related somehow.

Sorry folks, I haven't read the whole thread through so sorry if I'm repeating stuff. But, I'm just rereading GoF and found the Lovegoods mentioned as living near the Weasleys (when they are getting the portkey). I don't personally remember the bit in the above quote, I'll have to get my books out!

I find it amazing that she had these characters planned out so well in advance! I shouldn't though, she is an amazing author!

But given how early on the Lovegoods get a mention, then a repeat , and then the part that Luna plays in TOTP, she has surely got to play a still more major part in the next book.....

Suggestions.....?

Folgers
June 19th, 2004, 10:48 pm
I know that this post was quite a while back, but all the way back in SS, Lockhart talks about how "he" put a homorphus charm on a werewolf, and saved a man from becoming a werewolf every month. So maybe she tried this charm on Luna, and it backfired. Also if there is such a charm, I wonder why Lupin doesn't use it.

Um...exactly. Don't you think that if there was a cure lurking somewhere Lupin would have tried it? It doesn't exactly sound like he enjoys being a werewolf. The cure was probably made up altogether in this case.

Sry if this is a repeat convo.

mevam
June 19th, 2004, 10:59 pm
Someone asked about the origins of the names of Padma and Parvati? This is from www.masterfroggy1.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/ Alphabet/Page%20P.htm :

Parvati Patil

Gryffindor girl who has a sister is in Ravenclaw A member of Dumbledore's Army. Parvati is a Hindu Goddess married to Hindu God Siva the Destroyer. She gave birth to a baby boy named Ganesh who Siva beheaded but replaced the old head with an elephant head after Parvati reamed him out. Sister of the Goddess of the Ganges Padma.



Patil Padma

Identical twin sister of Parvati Patil. Ravenclaw. Ron's date at the Yule Ball.A member of Dumbledore's Army Padma (Ganga) is the Hindu goddess of the Ganges India's most sacred river. She is the sister of the mountain goddess Parvati. Padma also means lotus. In fact the highest cultural honour in India is called Padma Bhushan, which translates to Order of the Lotus.

ChiChi
June 21st, 2004, 4:42 am
Sorry...gotta add some more stuff that i thought of. Firstly, about Dumbledore being the great great great great grandfather of Harry: That is very plausible. When Harry goes into T.M.R.'s memory in CoS, he sees that DD has Auburn Hair...LIKE HARRY'S MOM! This could mean there is some kinda distant relation. For example, one of Dumbledore's relatives gave birth to a squib and these squibs gave birth to a bunch of other muggle kids and then some turned out to be muggleborns...such as Lily Evans and possibly MARK EVANS! That one solved..

5) oh yah remembered: When, at the end of the year, she has lost all her things because people think she is LOONY she is positive that they will come back. How is she this positive? SHE IS A SEER!


J.k. rowling said that dumbledore is not related to harry. Also the evidence about Luna being a seer in # 5 is pretty thin.

ChiChi
June 21st, 2004, 4:48 am
[QUOTE=Nephel]What does Avada mean? I heard that either Voldemorte or Avada Kadavra means "flight of death" cant remember which one.

Voldemort means flight from death.

TerrierMom
June 21st, 2004, 4:50 am
In the first book, the 11" holly and phoenix feather wand that chooses Harry at Ollivander's sends up red and gold sparks when Harry waves it. Red and gold are Gryffindor colors, and later Harry winds up in Gryffindor after being Sorted..

ravenclaw02
June 21st, 2004, 5:04 am
Voldemort (Vol-de-mort) means either "flight from death" or "theft of death" in French. Vol is a noun, meaning either flight or theft, coming from the verb voler. Mort is a noun meaning death, coming from the verb mourir. If we take it to mean "flight from death", isn't it interesting that Harry's greatest strength at school is flying?
As for Avada Kedavra, I forget where I heard this, but Avada means "the coming of" or "the advance of" and Kedavra is meant to refer to cadavers, ie dead bodies, so Avada Kedavra would loosely mean "the coming of death." Hope this helps! :)

funnyhoney88
June 21st, 2004, 5:36 am
i dont think this has been posted before, but i thought in the beginning of ootp when the wealsleys are at grimmauld drive, when fred and george are levitating the bread and butter and knife, they drop everything they're levitating, and the knife lands right where sirius' hand had been a moment before. that seems to me to be foreshadowing his death. then, when they're leaving for hogwarts fred and george are again using magic to carry their trunks, when they knock ginny down the stairs and almost kill her. which made me think that maybe she may die. also, did anyone notice she thinks of harry's death before she thinks of the death of some of her own children? i dunno that semt a bit odd to me. unless she knew how imp harry's life is, what with harry's death voldemort's power going unchecked, but i dont think that many people other than dumbledore knew of the prophecy. well i'm rambling here, please post and reply!

funnyhoney88
June 21st, 2004, 5:38 am
woops in that post above the she who thinks of harry's death, is mrs weasley with the boggart sorry about that

Katarzyna
July 1st, 2004, 12:33 am
Just realized this while reading throught one of the Neville threads. Harry gives the Prophecy to Neville, and soon after, the prophecy is smashed, by the actions of both Harry and Neville--Neville puts it in his pocket, Harry steps on and rips Nevilles robes, and Neville kicks the prophecy across the room where it smashes.

My thoughts--it could be a foreshadowing of what might happen in book 7. The prophecy is about Voldemort and Harry, whom Voldemort marked, and the prophecy states that one must die at the hands of the other. But the prophecy also contained an uncertainty--Neville could have been the other party, and would have, if Voldemort had chosen him.

So perhaps Neville is an uncertainty in another way. Since Harry and Neville smashed the prophecy working together, perhaps if they work together, they can somehow defeat Voldemort without killing him.

The theory also goes along with other hints in the books--Dumbledore tells Voldemort several times that there are things worse than death. Based on that, it seems to me like JKR is setting up Voldemort for something other than death.

So, Harry and Neville working together can change or smash the prophecy in some way. What do y'all think? Please shoot holes in my theory, before I fall in love with it! :)

SilverStar
July 1st, 2004, 12:34 am
Blue fire was a clue. I totally missed that.

Phoenix32
July 1st, 2004, 3:04 am
As for Ginny being referred to a cat, I'm not so sure about that, but it's not an impossibility. No one in the Weasley family has been an animagus yet have they? Charlie, Percy and Fred and the twins would have been one by now would they have not?

Not necessarily. It took the Mauraders 3 years to learn how to do it - and in secret at that. Remember Hermione mentioning that there had only been 7 registered Animangi in the last century? So obviously its no easy feat to manage. And there are plenty other characters we see that are powerful wizards but haven't been mentioned as animangus yet. (Mr & Mrs Weasley, Fudge, Dumbledore, Snape, etc). It seems as if everyone could do it there'd be animangus popping up everywhere. While I don't doubt that Harry or someone/some people in his crew may become animangus, I don't think its a necessary step for all wizards.

Although... I was reading a JK interview and someone asked what animangus she would turn into, and JK said something along the lines of she's already given her favorite animangus to Hermione in the Room of Requirement. But Hermione only produced a patronus in the room of requirement. A simple mistake or clue?

Liv4Sirius
July 1st, 2004, 3:09 am
Silveria: are you suggesting that Crookshanks could be an Animagus? Because if he was an Animagus, then he would have shown up on the Marauder's Map, but he never did

Does this mean that Filch's cat, Mrs.Norris, is an Animagus? Because she turns up on the map as well...

angel_e_riddle
July 1st, 2004, 3:12 am
Silveria: are you suggesting that Crookshanks could be an Animagus? Because if he was an Animagus, then he would have shown up on the Marauder's Map, but he never did

Even is he *was* an animagus, he can't be because JKR said he wasn't, that he was half cat/half kneazle.

debledore
July 1st, 2004, 4:19 am
Katarzyna, your theory is interesting and I bet Neville will somehow aide Harry in his fight against LV, whether LV dies or not. This fits along with the theme behind prophecies, which to me is that if you believe the prophecy will come true or will occurr, then it will. In another words, the prophecy may not really be true but b/c Harry's heard that he must vanquish LV, he will attempt to do so. Am I making any sense? It is the whole self-fulfilling prophecy idea. At any rate, there is a lot of foreshadowing that Neville plays a key role.

flipfloputz
July 1st, 2004, 4:33 am
Neville and Harry would make a great team. Neville always seems to try and help Harry, like in the 1st book, he tried to tell Harry about Malfoy seeing him at Hagrids, and him wanting to come with Harry to the DoM.

Katarzyna
July 1st, 2004, 5:37 am
Katarzyna, your theory is interesting and I bet Neville will somehow aide Harry in his fight against LV, whether LV dies or not. This fits along with the theme behind prophecies, which to me is that if you believe the prophecy will come true or will occurr, then it will. In another words, the prophecy may not really be true but b/c Harry's heard that he must vanquish LV, he will attempt to do so. Am I making any sense? It is the whole self-fulfilling prophecy idea. At any rate, there is a lot of foreshadowing that Neville plays a key role.

Oh yes, that makes a lot of sense! In fact, now that you've said that, I wonder if Voldemort was luring Harry to the DoM in part so that Harry could hear the prophecy? After all, Voldemort nearly destroyed himself trying to fulfill the prophecy, maybe he thinks Harry will destroy himself trying to fulfill the prophecy as well.

And, if Harry does try to fulfull the prophecy, perhaps Neville is the messing-up factor that saves Harry.

Or, uhm, maybe this is totally wrong.

Kat, waiting, waiting, waiting

LuvRed
July 1st, 2004, 6:21 am
Just a thought

Luna Lovegood-I would watch out for anyone that does not need to blink, excessive blinking means someone's lying, and maybe there are fire spirits in the MoM. Also, she lasted longer in battle than Ron and Hermione. Luna definitely seems to know a lot of things you can't get from a book[ or Hermione]. If something happens to Hermione, Luna is also a messenger character to Harry. :huh:

ScarletWoman
July 1st, 2004, 6:37 am
J.K. has hinted to the Crookshanks mystery a few times. She's hinted to look at her book "Strange Beasts and where to find them" Crookshanks is no ordinary cat to be sure but he is not an animagi... :eyebrows:

Also, with the Crookshanks thing... It didn't expressly say that he didn't appear on the map. Lupin and Snape didn't say either way, and they were the only ones looking at it at the time. And if he did show up on the map, unless someone was looking for him, I don't think they'd notice unless it was the name of someone familiar. The only problem I have with my own theory about Crookshanks is that I cannot for the life of me think of who the person is if it really is an animagus.

Xxanica
July 1st, 2004, 6:58 am
Hmm, foreshadowing. I think that we will definately see more of Mark Evans. He is the only one of Dudley's victims that is named, which seems to place an importance on him. Neville, Luna, and Ginny will all gain larger roles, as up until book five they had all been mentioned, but only in passing. I could see Neville being one of the few, perhaps even the first, that Harry tells the prophecy to when he feels ready. As the prophecy could have refered to Neville, I see him as having an important role in the upcoming books. The locked room from the DoM will definately show up again, as it seems to hold "the power the Dark Lord knows not." Arthur Weasley could become minister for magic, as it is mentioned jokingly by Ron, but I see the new minister as most probably being Madam Bones. The Bones family has been mentioned many times throughout the books, especially Susan, so I believe that they will factor in much more in the upcoming books. The DA seems like a good starting point to try and unite the houses of Hogwarts, and the theme of unity from within will be very crucial, as it is mentioned by Dumbledore at the end of book 4 and the sorting hat at the beginning of book 5. I think that we will see some of the lesser known Slytherins join the DA, thus starting to repair the rift between the houses. The mirror will definately show up again, as it was emphasized that he threw it back in his trunk and not just out the window or in the garbage. As seen by the fountain in the entry hall to the Ministry of Magic, the interactions and relations between the magical races will become important as the war is now out in the open. Considering the revelations we had about Petunia Dursley's knowledge of the Wizarding World, I think that foreshadows a possilbe change inthe relationship between her and Harry.
That's all for now, I need to re-skin OotP for more:-)

dancer4life728
July 1st, 2004, 7:13 am
Luna definatly knows a lot about the wizarding world even if some of it is far-fetched.
She's also a really clever and a very good witch.
I was looking at the order in which they pass out in the DoM:
1. Hermione- She gets knocked out by some spell a death eater puts on her
2. Luna- She gets stunned by a DE (however she was the only one that has unharmed when her, Ron and Luna got separated and went into the planet room)
3. Ron- He gets attacked by the brain. (He was acting funny before though, and by what he was saying it reminded me of what Lockhart said in the 2nd book after the memory charm, he seemed to find everything funny and amusing so I think that the DE might have put a memory charm on him)
4. Ginny- She gets stunned by a DE (but she had broken her ankle before)
5. Neville- He never really passes out but he is attacked by a DE and then the DE puts the jelly legs jin on him which I found rather childish actually)

I think the order in they fall is significant because it might foreshadow what is going to happen during the final battle. Also for those of you who agree with the chess board theory, I've noticed thatn whenever Ron and Harry are playing wizard's chess there is a reference to a knight and it is usually that the knight was just killed or that the knight took a pawn.

I also think that the centaurs attacking Umbridge might foreshadow that they might put aside their pride and join the war againist Voldemort.