Return of Sirius Black?

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Thayet
June 23rd, 2003, 5:03 pm
Well now. Its highly likely we will hear more about him, its certain he will at least be mentioned. Is it possible, intelligent as he is, that he could have recorded some thoughts or memories, and stored them at a safe location to be discovered?

And as we dont know exactly what spell it was, it could simply have been a stunning spell, and the veil - will we hear more about that? The veil, although they heard whispering voices behind it, and Luna said she could talk to her mother beyond it, that implies that she is dead. In fact, Luna can see the thestrals as she saw her mother die, but what if the veil has a sort of trapped death? It wouldn't surprise me if a twist was made so that people trapped within the veil could be released.

Well, do you think we'll hear anything much about padfoot? I know JKR said a DEATH, but I cant believe that will be the end of such a marvellous man.

roz
June 23rd, 2003, 5:11 pm
In the BBC interview she says: "Well I had re-written the death, re-written it and that was it. It was definitive. And the person was definitely dead. "

Between that and the discussion with Nick I think that Sirius is gone. We could very well hear some more about his past but I think that that is all.

Along those lines though - Does this mean that Harry will inherit the Black estate?

Roz.

DumbledoreArmy
June 23rd, 2003, 5:29 pm
We will hear more about him, for sure, will he come back, I am thinking that probably not, unless JK Rowling can't make up her mind! :)

As for the veil thing, it could be a possibility, but I don't think that Sirius will be realased. Though, who knows.

Hawk 92
June 23rd, 2003, 6:08 pm
In the BBC interview she says: "Well I had re-written the death, re-written it and that was it. It was definitive. And the person was definitely dead. "

Given that strong a statement could JKR bringing Sirius back effect the books? Make them less enjoyable. After all if she can bring Sirius back why not James and Lilly?

I think that we'll find out more about Sirius, James, and Lilly's pasts but I think that Sirius is gone.

Not to be rude but if he does come back and give Harry advice in ghost form won't that be a little too Star Wars like? Kind of like when Obi Wan kept reappearing to Luke.

Cheers!

Divi
June 23rd, 2003, 6:14 pm
I agree with what has been said here. He is dead, he was the death speculated in the book, and he won't be returning to life at all. It would make things less finite, and it would break the rules about life and death that we have come to learn and accept about the wizarding world. The one questionable thing is whether, through some magical means such as the veil, he will be able to speak to Sirius. JK said that once someone was dead, they could not be seen alive again, but that hinted that there might be a way to see part of their aura after death. We've seen James and Lily because of the prior incantatem thing in Book 4, and I'm guessing that there are many other ways that the dead can be 'visited' in some ways. I'm not sure how, but Luna's clues about being able to hear her mother again left me wondering if Harry might use it at some time to contact his parents or Sirius. It seems a bit... off, to all of a sudden introduce a means to contact the dead, but I guess we'll find out in the next books.

Gen-Eric
June 23rd, 2003, 6:42 pm
Maybe the Ministry gives Harry a cut of the veil which he can talk to Sirius with? (not to be taken seriously)

Kendra
June 23rd, 2003, 6:46 pm
What on earth is the veil doing there in the first place. Stupid people how rude of them to put it there! one thing I don't get, did Sirius die before he fell through the veil?

Hotmama2
June 23rd, 2003, 7:57 pm
I cried when Sirius died.....I'm not sure what the veil is....but I feel sure that we will find out more about it in the next book....

Maybe the veil is like a web.....you are caught between life and death.....so you can help those you left behind come to grips with your death....what do you think???

Mad-I Moody
June 23rd, 2003, 8:54 pm
I hope that Harry can somehow communicate with Sirius, at least once more, in order to gain some closure. When someone dies so suddenly like that, it's just so hard to wrap up any loose ends. Maybe they will somehow be able to communicate, but I say Sirius is definitely gone for good. JKR has already told us that there is no spell that can reawaken the dead, so that is a done deal. He's gone -- Lupin, Dumbledore, everyone we trust said it. It is final. *sob*

It's just awful. So so sad.

FatalBeauty
June 24th, 2003, 12:07 am
I think that if Luna can talk to her mom through the veil, hopefully Harry will be able to talk to Sirius through it. What I'm wondering is, if the veil is a way of communication then is it all people who have died or only certain ones? Would Harry possibly be able to speak to his parents through the veil?

MadMagic
June 24th, 2003, 1:52 am
He is dead. I don't think JK would have had such a tough time writing the scene if he was coming back. Don' ge me wrong, I would love to see him again, but I don't think we will.

Maybe we will see more of him in things like the pensieve though.

Aelurus13
June 24th, 2003, 2:24 am
How can it be the end? Lupin is a good guy, but Sirius is something different! Harry needs Sirius not for only emotional support but the father figure. Harry has had to deal with so much c*rp already, why this to? However I suspect Harry will need both to fully understand somethings. Lupin may have to take over the father-figure, if Sirius is truly gone. Which is very sad!!! :'(

Aelurus13
June 24th, 2003, 2:56 am
Remember in the Prisoner of Azkaban? Where Hermoine had that nifty little gadget called a Time-Turner? And they used that to save Sirius?
Is anyone not positive J.K. Rowling won't use that item again? I am not saying specifically for Sirius again (even thought it would be very cool). J.K. Rowling has used this before. Polyjuice Potion for example, the trio used it at one point in book 2 then it was the whole point of book 4.
Another example would be the Patronus charm. Harry was never supposed to know and it not only turned out useful, but the difference between expulsion and suspension.
I think J.K. Rowling is sneaky enough to do something like that again. She put too much effort into it not to use it again. I really hope they could do something about Sirius, but I suppose his time has passed.
So do you agree? or not?

CentaurFirenze
June 24th, 2003, 3:27 am
That might be true and I think they also talked about all of those Time-Turners breaking it could be foreshadowing?

Charmed
June 24th, 2003, 5:04 am
Sirius is gone. We will see no future or present of him. Possibly only past memories of him i.e the pensieve.

Jinxie Cat
June 24th, 2003, 6:13 am
There's a thread here (www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?s=&threadid=11319) about whether Sirius Black will return or not. I like your thoughts. I'm really hoping we won't see the last of Padfoot. I hope he either comes back as a ghost or didn't die for some strange reason. I hate to see him go. :(

ArchChancellor
June 24th, 2003, 7:34 am
My theory is that the veil will definitely come back in some shape or form... perhaps even as a tool of justice to Belatrix.
The department of mysteries seems an extremely fascinating place to me. And nothing creeped me out more, as Hermoine could relate, than the veil and archway. But if it was just a tool of death why would the ministry have it there? It serves a purpose, perhaps the department's job is to figure out what purpose it may be.
The clues stand thus:
Harry and Luna could hear the voices because they had seen people die.
Hermoine came over a fit of unease but could not hear the voices.
Dumbledore called it the Chamber of Death.
Lupin seemed to know about it and understood how it worked.

About death, however...
"Death is but the next great adventure to an organized mind"
"One of your greatest weaknesses... is thinking that death is the worst thing that can happen"
both from dumbledore

It seems to me that the only way Harry will hear Sirius again is by listening to the veil... this sounds extremely dangerous, however. There seems to be an inner lure, something extraordinarily dark about it. It creeps me out, needless to say.

Kendra
June 24th, 2003, 2:04 pm
*hem hem* the way he was attracted to it, and even fogot he was here to save sirius, shows how dangerous it is alone, not to mention how stronger he will be attracted to it now he's lost someone else.

whizbang121
June 24th, 2003, 5:31 pm
Didn't Luna's mom die as a result of a backfired spell? Maybe the "dead" trapped behind the veil died in magical accidents, like say, falling through a veil? Are there any talking portaits of Sirius around? Wizard cards? Can he visit his ancestor in the painting in Dumbledore's office?

I don't think he was afraid to die, so by Nick's criteria, he wouldn't qualify for ghost, but ................. I'm not so sure Nick knows much beyond his own limited experience.

Kneazle
June 24th, 2003, 6:12 pm
Sirius is definitely dead; you can't escape the fact, I know, but I still have hope that we might see some form of him in the future. There was absolutely no closure for Harry when Sirius died: the latter fell behind the veil, and then he was gone. Memories linger, of course, and I am sure that Harry will see more of the Marauders' past before the series comes to a close, but I also believe that he will have some sort of contact with Sirius in the next two books. Even if it is a small sign in a fleeting scene or a dream, I believe that he will encounter something related to Sirius that comforts and helps him. :)

Hawk 92
June 25th, 2003, 2:26 pm
I look for Harry to turn to Lupin about that whole veil and what happened to Sirius when he fell through it. We know Lupin is intelligent and didn't want Harry to go after Sirius into the veiled chamber. Just grabbed him and said that Sirius was gone. Lupin knew.


Cheers!

Padfoot2003
June 25th, 2003, 4:40 pm
No one hear can possibly know whether he will come back or not. When it says JKR had re-written it, maybe she had him perminatley dead before, and changed it so he fell into the veil. It would make sense if he was going to come back. Since we know nothing about the veil, except that we can hear dead people talking on the other side, there is still a chance that Sirius comes back. Maybe they will do something with the veil, or maybe he stored his memories, and he is the only one that knows about it. There's no telling that could happen with all the twists JKR is putting in. You can't tell by the interview. She's not going to say, "I killed the character I was going to kill, but he could come back". There's always a possiblity. She could of killed him off with a curse, but she chose the veil. There had to of been a reason.

Artichoke
June 25th, 2003, 5:58 pm
I think Sirius is gone for good, I don't think Harry will be able to talk to him again through the veil or something like that. But I hope we'll see more about him and the marauders in Dumbledore's pensieve.

SiriusSeverusFan
June 25th, 2003, 8:41 pm
Oh I dearly hope this isn't the very last of Padfoot! I think Harry needs to see him or talk to him one last time in some way to get over shock and denial and move on to closure (Not to mention so do I!). I think that Sirius deserves a portrait for the suffering he's gone through, and perhaps a portrait would be a way to talk to him again. If we never, ever hear from him in any way except the Pensieve I think I just might cry more than I did at the initial death.

remus81
June 25th, 2003, 10:31 pm
I think that we will definately hear more about him, but I think that JKR is making a point about death with Black. The discussion with Nearly Headless Nick, the scene with the mirror. We can't see the dead, we can't talk to them. JKR is writing for kids, and I think she is trying to help them cope with death as anyone would. It would be too easy to say that Harry can talk to Sirius because he is a wizard. All we have is memories, and photos, and a legacy, that is all that Harry will have.

moon_lit_raven
June 25th, 2003, 10:36 pm
i think that sirius could come back or at least talk to harry, but there are so many things that make it difficult to see how, fist the veil thing lupin didn't want harry going through it did he? so he knows that it must kill people, but then Luna said about hearing her mother talking to her, so maybe harry could talk to sirius through it.

But there is the bit of how he is going to get down into veil again, it would be pretty hard, cause he is goner be even more protected then he was before. But then JK said he was dead and wouldn't come back so that means he may stiil be in a memory or a potrait.

I think Lupin will become harry fathers figure, but Why did she add Tonks? cause she's sirius second cousin and she is like him with the rule breaking and things, so maybe thats how she's goner get around having sirius dead, shes got tonks instead.

although i hope sirius comes back or i'm goner cry even more : (

LewsTherin
June 26th, 2003, 5:23 am
No, Sirius will not come back. JKR made it very clear that the death would be final, and hence Sirius is well and truly gone. We may hear more about his past, and there may be some sort of tribute to him, but he will not be back. That would really spoil the story.

I believe that it is Hermione who need to fills his role now, but that's just me (she being my favorite character).

Thayet
June 26th, 2003, 7:17 am
When I titled this "Return of Sirius Black" it could be interpreted in many ways -- it doesn't necessarily mean returning to life. I do not like to admit it, but it wont happen. But Dumbledore talks of death as "the next great adventure" which would mean that there is an afterlife, and Luna's hints about talking to her mother makes me think that you can talk to the people that you saw dying, and only those. After all, she saw her mother die in an "experiment", and if she can, then this would mean Harry could talk to Sirius, and Cedric if he chose to, and Remus could talk to one of his best deceased friends again.

Endangered
June 26th, 2003, 8:40 am
I'm not sure that everybody really understood what the Department of Mysteries is about.

Each room had a theme, the prophecy's would have been the mystery of the Future, the one with the planets - 'the mysteries of the universe'. It is clear that the room with the veil is 'the mysteries of death.'

That archway is the division between the dead and living. Once you pass through the veil you enter the world of the dead and can never come back. It is the major rule in JKR world, is once you can not resurrect the dead.

Sirius cannot come back to life, but the possibility remains that Harry maybe able to invent a way to talk to the dead, even become temporarily dead and enter the afterlife.

vickygirl4
June 27th, 2003, 7:33 pm
I think Sirius, along with all of the marauders, will have a large role in the future. After all, just because someone's dead doesn't mean they can't play a major role. Lily and James are dead but we're still finding out important things about them!

atac109
June 27th, 2003, 8:13 pm
Allow me to list what we know....

Sirius didn't die from the spell that LeStrange hit him with; he died because of falling behind the veil.

Lupin KNEW that Sirius was gone as soon as he fell behind the veil.

Only Harry and Luna (who were also the only ones to see the thestrals) could hear the voices behind the veil.

The veil was distracting and made Harry curious, forgetting what he was there for.

Obviously, something very dangerous lies beyond the veil. My guess is that it is death. That's right, DEATH. If you fall into death, you die. And that's how Lupin and Dumbledore--and even LeStrange!--were so sure that Sirius died. Also, maybe only those who have seen death can hear it. That would explain why Harry and Luna could hear the voices. But the veil "does not show truth" or whatever it was that Dumbledore told Harry in SS. I think Harry could communicate with Sirius through the veil if he really wanted to, but it would be really dangerous.

One more thing: could falling beyond the veil be the only way for Harry to kill Voldemort? Probably not...but maybe.

rikuownsyou
June 27th, 2003, 8:29 pm
Very sadly speaking but I don't think that the actual Sirius will be back..that bites so bad! I do very almost know that we will hear more about the veil and about Sirius and stuff. All I know is if Sirius is dead he is with James but if he is behind the veil or whatever he is alive...well dead but I think that book six will be the big book or whatever..expalins about Sirius and the veil.

Arcadia
June 27th, 2003, 8:49 pm
Sirius was set up as an unhappy character. He was distressed about the way he had to live. He was let than pleased that Harry had a different personality from his father. I think that showcasing the unhappiness was a way to lead us into not feeling as badly about his death as we might have someone who was happy with life.

FawkesBox
June 28th, 2003, 4:02 pm
Sadly I agree. I also think that the finality of this form of death (as was mentioned) is important. i think that it is a clue from JKR as to a way to kill someone- perhaps an unruly dark lord.

Lucious_Malfoy
June 28th, 2003, 10:10 pm
I'll make this short so you can conjure up your own opinions. Sirius Black died for the reason of crossing the viel...right.

Do you think Sirius is dead altogether? Or will he pull a Gandolf and rise again?

I'm not in denial just asking, he wasn't killed?
Do you think Rowling has a special suprise in store for us?
What do you think?

Tomsk
June 28th, 2003, 10:31 pm
If anything he might do an Obi Wan Kenobe and talk to Harry, but apart from that (which is kinda far fetched) I think he is dead.

Isin Dule
June 28th, 2003, 10:41 pm
He fell through the veil which, in my opinion, is a direct passage to death.

So obviously, he is dead. You can't come back from the dead. I think we saw the last of him.

Dark Fallen Pride
June 28th, 2003, 10:52 pm
He is dead JK wouldn't lie like that I don't think, it would be grand if he came back but I belive that he is totally and 100% dead

amy460
June 28th, 2003, 10:53 pm
I think he is dead... he may play some part in future books but not a lot (much like Lily and James did in book 4) I am looking forward to see the reason he was not a ghost and what exactly that veil was.

DWeasley
June 28th, 2003, 10:56 pm
I also believe he is definately dead. Lupin said he was, and didn't go after him or anything - if there had been any hope, someone would have.

harry-james-potter
June 28th, 2003, 11:02 pm
Originally posted by Isin Dule (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=400076#post400076))
He fell through the veil which, in my opinion, is a direct passage to death.

So obviously, he is dead. You can't come back from the dead. I think we saw the last of him.


Yes, he is dead, but I don't think we've seen the last of him! The Mirror! Now, I know that Sirius said "say my name into it" Which Harry WAS doing. Sirius also said, "use it if you need me". He would have had to have had it with him all the time, right? But, that may not be the problem. When he said, "my name" could he have meant, "Padfoot"?

McKinnon02
June 28th, 2003, 11:21 pm
Um, I know nobody is going to want to hear this, but maybe Sirius' death was a red herring set up by the order to fool Voldemort. Harry feels closest to Sirius, and Sirius would do anything to protect Harry. Harry thinks Sirius is dead, so there's no way for Voldemort to know that he isn't. His friends also think Sirius is dead, so they wouldn't be seen talking about him as if he were still alive. Harry is V's one link to spy on what's going on in the Order...it's possible he may not even be allowed back into the Order's HQ until he's mastered Occlumency. It would also allow Sirius to do work for the Order without being under suspicion from any DE's.

orclev
June 28th, 2003, 11:27 pm
That's an interesting theory, McKinnon... I kinda like it. My belief though is that Sirius is dead; somehow, though, there just doesn't seem to be the sort of closure on his death as there was on the other deaths, and it really just feels like we will be seeing or hearing from him again. Maybe in one of Harry's dreams...

harry-james-potter
June 28th, 2003, 11:28 pm
Or maybe my theory?

orclev
June 28th, 2003, 11:31 pm
Oh! Yes, Padfoot... Because... Because like when "Prongs rides again," it's kind of like their animagus is their true self, like their spirit or something. So if he asked for Padfoot... Maybe... Maybe... But the mirror is broken, so...?

Weasley24
June 28th, 2003, 11:33 pm
I'm about %92 sure Sirius is dead, although it'd be great if he wasnt. We'll probably be seeing him in some other form sometime in the next two books. What I dont get about the mirror is, if Harry broke his mirror, is there a chance he'll still be able to talk to Sirius with it? Assuming Sirius has his with him too.

Sweetie
June 28th, 2003, 11:34 pm
He's dead, but he isn't gone. From the books, everything points to him being dead anyway, but in the interviews with JK, she says that it was "horrible to write" and that she was very upset about killing him, to say the least. I'm pretty sure she wouldn't lie in an interview just to make it appear that someone has died when they really have not.

Arissya_00
June 28th, 2003, 11:46 pm
I agree with Sweetie, he's dead, but not gone or forgotten. I pretty sure he'll be mentioned AND appear, somehow.

Kendra
June 28th, 2003, 11:52 pm
I'm 95% sure he's dead, but 1% sure he's gone completely.

As Prongs rode again, so will Padfoot :D

Earendil
June 29th, 2003, 12:00 am
Alot of people elsewhere seem convinced that he isn't dead, but I'm pretty certain that JK is not going to pull a Gandalf on is with an "Oh! Just kidding! He's really alive, now we can all be happy and skip off into the sunset" (not that that's how Gandalf's return was). His death was symbolic and it had a purpose, even if it might not make much sense now, and I'm sure that there was a reason for killing him off that will be revealed. Other than that, it would certainly be nice if he wasn't dead, given the vagueness of the way he died, but I have a pretty strong feeling that going through the veil sealed his fate.

ravstardeluxe
June 29th, 2003, 12:03 am
I think that Sirius is dead but will come back as a ghost. I felt that the viel thing wasn't explained properly because Luna could hear voices behind it and so could Harry (they being the only two that could). What it did exactly was never truly told to the reader. I think it's relevant and will be there in the future books. I don't know why but I just don't think that it's over with him yet.

fawkesthepheonix
June 29th, 2003, 12:11 am
:'( I think Sirius is really dead. Maybe somehow, Harry will be able to talk to him, but like Harry's parents, Sirius won't come back.

i wish i knew
June 29th, 2003, 12:28 am
Originally posted by amy460 (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=400100#post400100))
I am looking forward to see the reason he was not a ghost


I thought Nearly Headless Nick explained that pretty well. Wasn't it a choice, either they move on, or they can stay, but they must stay forever and the choice is definite.

I think he's definitley dead :'( because of what JKR said, that a well loved character dies in book 5.

lorna
June 29th, 2003, 12:35 am
Somebody not really being dead is such old plot device I'd be disappointed to see Rowling use it.

nicoley13
June 29th, 2003, 12:37 am
I think he's really dead, because otherwise why would J.K. have been crying about it? But I'm sure he'll be back in some form or another. His death wasn't really explained all that well and she left it kind of mysterious.

McKinnon02
June 29th, 2003, 1:22 am
Even Dumbledore said that the ones we love never truly leave us. I think Sirius'll be around, in some way, shape or form. But the truth is, we don't know whether it was Bellatrix or the Veil that killed Sirius- the second spell she fired at him had no color in front of it, so we don't know whether it was Avada Kedavra or Stupify.

Palador
June 29th, 2003, 2:51 am
Personally, I have my doubts about Sirius being really dead. Somehow, it didn't seem as final as, say, when Cedric died. There's something strange about all this, and I really doubt that Sirius is really dead.

ChaliceInnana
June 29th, 2003, 2:54 am
Well, first the whole thing was EXTREMELY Obi-wan Kenobi. But Sirrus wasn't exactly filled with the whole Jedi inner peace thing. If he comes back it will be weird. Like Pet Semetary weird.

Unless he went behind the veil and a miracle happened and we get the sexy s.o.b. back.

I mourn that man.

Kneazle
June 29th, 2003, 3:11 am
Personally, much as I love Sirius as a character and wish that he needn't have died, I would be disappointed if he ever came back alive. His suddenly returning as he was would be too easy a way out, and the twist been used so many times (not to mention that it is a very mean trick :)). I don't think that JK will ever indulge in the use of such caprices, especially when you consider how she stressed the finality of the death and how horribly shocking it is to have someone taken from you so suddenly.

Eowyn
June 29th, 2003, 3:12 am
I think JKR has made it pretty clear that Sirius is dead. Even though his death was very vague in the book, she has said in interviews that it was necessary to have a ruthless death in order to make Harry examine death more closely.

I too was intrigued by the fact that we don't seem to actually see Sirius DIE, but JKR addressed that too. From the Q&A at Royal Albert Hall: "I think what I was trying to do with the death in this book was show how very arbitrary and sudden death is. This is a death where you didn't have a big death bed scene. It happened almost accidentally and that is one of the very cruel things about death and they're now in a war situation where that really does happen, where one minute you're talking to your friend and the next minute he's gone. It's so shocking and so inexplicable… "Where did they go?" I found it upsetting to write, because I knew what it would mean to Harry."

So yes...even though his death was confusing, I think he really is gone. :'( As much as it hurts to think about it.

I agree, though...he probably will appear again in SOME way in book 6 or 7. (He has to!!! I won't be able to stand it if he doesn't!!!)

Ecthelion
June 29th, 2003, 3:34 am
Sorry to be off topic, but this does deal with Sirius vaguely....

Where is Buckbeak?

Moronie
June 29th, 2003, 4:30 am
I don't think Sirius is dead! But then I'm just kinda optimistic... I mean, of course the veil, a direct passage to death (perhaps), I mean...he crossed the darn thing and all, but o_O Oh, I don't think he's dead, I guess it might be like Wormtail...hopefully... I don't want Sirius dead, he's so cool.

And wasn't Buckbeak in that house...?

ilovedan112389
June 29th, 2003, 6:46 am
BUt JKR had said on a BBC interview " I have written it, re-written it and that was it. This is definite. That person was difinitely dead."

Dormitorius Draco
June 29th, 2003, 8:28 am
Originally posted by DWeasley (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=400105#post400105))
I also believe he is definately dead. Lupin said he was, and didn't go after him or anything - if there had been any hope, someone would have.

Not to snap at you or anything but do you think hope was high when Gandalf got dragged into the fiery pit? Since when is Lupin absolutely correct on things? And why would anyone go into something if they have no idea what it is? So of course he didn't go after Sirius. But until someone give me a definite expanantion as to what the veil is, I refuse for him to be forgotten as dead.

Ollivander
June 29th, 2003, 8:34 am
i wish he wasnt... be im 100% sure he is gone.... JKR wouldnt cry if she had plans to bring him back......

dottymacfarlane
June 29th, 2003, 8:52 am
Hey all,
I was just thinking did Sirius know how to apparate cause he could of apparated after fallin behind the veil. But one thing i thought that it might be like Hogwarts and not able to be apparated in or out of

lanifiel
June 29th, 2003, 8:56 am
He's Dead and Gone. Mrs Rowling is not the kind of person to bring characters back from the dead like that. Sad, but true...

hightideorlowtide
June 29th, 2003, 9:05 am
Well here is my opinion:

Sirius is dead, or in some type of Nirvana. he could come back, it isn't likely, although, if there was a picture of Sirius much like the picture of all the ex-headmasters of Hogwarts or Mrs Black. then indeed harry would beable to talk to sirius still

Harry needs to find answears within himself. Sirius's death will only strengthen Harry's character.....

i can come to terms with Sirius's death, even though he was by far my favorite character ( funny thing i pictured Sirius as Garry Oldman even before they casted him) Id hate it if there was no more sirius at all, but i mean there will be sacrafices as this book goes on..

like who will die next.... i think the death of sirius prooved that nobody is safe in the wizarding world

Looney_LoveGood
June 29th, 2003, 9:18 am
I think the main key that we have to think about is; everything happens for a reason. (Though I'm still refusing that he's gone..*sniff*) I agree with many of you about J.K. saying that once she kills off a character, there's no way she can bring them back.

All of you have very good points, and they may all be far from the same but I can somewhat agree with all of them.

Sirius was by far the coolest character ^_^ and while it was sad to let him go, I'm sure there's a reason behind it. We'll just have to wait how that plays out. Who knows, maybe J.K. needed to write Sirius as dead to save Harry's life in the end. Anything could happen!

kyla maree
June 29th, 2003, 9:26 am
yeah.. even though i wish sirius wasnt dead. its final
J.K.R has said so....... its sooo sad though. i think in the final book harry will die... so will voldermort... i think in killing him harry will die aswell

Looney_LoveGood
June 29th, 2003, 9:30 am
Originally posted by kyla maree (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=401807#post401807))
yeah.. even though i wish sirius wasnt dead. its final
J.K.R has said so....... its sooo sad though. i think in the final book harry will die... so will voldermort... i think in killing him harry will die aswell


I used to think this way...but the whole prophecy thing got me all mixed up. Now I don't know what theory to give myself. It's insane because I can't stop thinking about it, and it's going to be ages until we get another book. :sigh:

GaryGag
June 29th, 2003, 3:05 pm
As vague as that death was (no corpse), we have to believe JKR when she says he's gone. Having that JKR snippet already in my head while I read OotP, it was an emotional roller coaster, wondering if it was going to be Arthur, Hagrid, McGonagall, Hermione, Ron, Neville, Sirius. Have I missed anybody (maybe even Umbridge, although too bad it wasn't). Would I have suspected the death of any of these feints without pre-knowing someone was going to die? I don't think so.

Christine Daae
June 29th, 2003, 3:51 pm
I do believe that Sirius is gone (sadly), however there is something I am intrigued by.

I have listened to the first four books on audio a number of times, and I have figured out one thing - nothing JK writes is "idle" or "filler" information, every word, event and detail is followed up on, and leads somewhere else. An example is in GOF when they arrive at Hogwart's, and Neville falls into the trick step. A small thing, but it becomes significant later when Harry is nearly caught by Filch and Snape when he falls into the trap himself.

So bearing that in mind, I keep thinking of GOF when Dumbledore says to Sirius that "no spell can reawaken the dead." This is after Sirius asks if Cedric had somehow come back to life after the "Priori Incantatum" effect had happened. I knew before reading OOTP that this was an important statement, now I am more convinced than ever. It is obviously significant because Sirius, the person the words were spoken to, became the first person to die in the new war (correct me if I'm wrong). But there may be even more behind Dumbledore's words in the future, even if Sirius does not/cannot come back.

Crashcatto
June 29th, 2003, 4:15 pm
Originally posted by Kneazle (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=400784#post400784))
Personally, much as I love Sirius as a character and wish that he needn't have died, I would be disappointed if he ever came back alive. His suddenly returning as he was would be too easy a way out, and the twist been used so many times (not to mention that it is a very mean trick :)). I don't think that JK will ever indulge in the use of such caprices, especially when you consider how she stressed the finality of the death and how horribly shocking it is to have someone taken from you so suddenly.


My senitments exactly. I can't see her taking the easy way out, even though I love Sirius (my favorite adult character). But I didn't really understand the veil thing completely, so who knows?

vickygirl4
June 29th, 2003, 4:52 pm
I think he's really dead, but I'm sure we'll hear more about him in the future (maybe about his family and his past) I think he still has an important part to play (or at least his memory does)

Doggy
June 29th, 2003, 5:31 pm
Ok, I know he's dead, but I'm trying to convince myself he isn't. Until a body is found, Sirius isn't dead. Besides, J.K. Rowling loves to surprise us with the most unexpected of twists...

Seriously, bye, bye Sirius. To make him come back to life would be too cliche. (is that how you spell it?)

Padfoot_Uk
June 29th, 2003, 5:42 pm
im afraid to say that the majority of my mind thinks that he is dead and isnt going to come back for the future books.

but i also agree with Vicky, i believe that Sirius, or at least a part of him, will play a major role and be vital to the story or else why would JK have killed him off? i hope in the end though his name will still be cleared.

Capella
June 29th, 2003, 5:47 pm
I think we'll never see Sirius alive again. I'm sure he'll be discussed and there'll be pictures of him etc, so in that sense he'll still be a part of Harry's life. But although the veil is very much open to interpretation, I can't see JKR going down the route of having him miraculously alive again - she was much too upset by the death and it just seems so final.

Padfoot_Uk
June 29th, 2003, 5:53 pm
Originally posted by Capella (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=402581#post402581))
I think we'll never see Sirius alive again. I'm sure he'll be discussed and there'll be pictures of him etc, so in that sense he'll still be a part of Harry's life. But although the veil is very much open to interpretation, I can't see JKR going down the route of having him miraculously alive again - she was much too upset by the death and it just seems so final.


now i agree with you. she said she was very upset when she wrote the death, and it is very unlike what we have seen of her writing so far for her to bring him back.

however we only have JK's word on how upset she was by the death, this may just be a stunt to throw us off-track and maybe he will come back in some form or another.

and also i agree the veil, at the moment, is all about interpretation and until book 6 or maybe even 7 comes out we may know not the truth about it.

InvasionOfTheGuru4
June 29th, 2003, 7:37 pm
Originally posted by Endangered (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=394966#post394966))
Sirius cannot come back to life, but the possibility remains that Harry maybe able to invent a way to talk to the dead, even become temporarily dead and enter the afterlife.


I like that idea! Good job! I think we might go into Lupin's memory of Sirius. I don't think he will come back alive, but I think that he will come back as a shadow, or some spell allows people who died or people in the veil to become a shadow for a certain amount of time... then maybe that way Sirius could help Harry.

Hawk 92
June 29th, 2003, 8:23 pm
I think that Sirius is dead. Lupin sounded sure when he told Harry that he's gone. While I miss Sirius I think that we will learn more about him but that's it.

If JKR brings back Sirius then (sad to say) the books will lose something for me. Because if she can bring back Sirius why couldn't she have brought back James and Lilly. And if she does bring back Sirius then what is to stop her from bringing everyone back who has died. James, Lilly, Cedric and Sirius.

If Sirius pulls an Obi Wan Kenobi then I'll feel that JKR ripped off Star Wars. And I think that JKR is a much more original writer than that.

I do however think that Sirius will appear as a symbol. After all we know what Harry's patronus is and we know what Hermione patronus is, perhaps Ron's could be Snuffles roaming again?

Who knows?

Cheers!

Andrew00
June 29th, 2003, 8:34 pm
Sirius' "leaving" has brough light into my mind. This is a very strange thing because there was no confirmation that he is actually "dead".

In an interview with Rowling, she said...she cried while killing one of her characters. This, unless she is trying to play a trick on audiences, confirms he is dead. But there is a few reasons to argue his death.

Harry heard voices in the veil. This could mean that Sirius was only trapped. Rowling did not really make clear what the veil actually was...

Another reason I think he is still alive is because of what Lupin said. Lupin was not reluctant to saying he's dead. He was really rushing harry away than actually stating his death with his knowledge. Perhaps Lupin could have been trying to get Harry away whilst finding a way to help Sirius.

But, even if the veil only trapped, he could die inside from starvation, suffocation, or the spell that hit him square in the chest...

Based on what I know I would say there is a slight chance he might return but most likely he is....and I regret to say it, Dead.

Arissya_00
June 29th, 2003, 8:39 pm
Bellatrix's spell was not Avada Kedavra, because in Avada Kedavra there is a flash of green light, and a sudden rushing sound. When he died, it only said a JET of green light his him. It was definately the veil. However, he is NOT gone. He is just dead. He will appear again, I am sure, but he is dead, and he cannot come back to life. But he will appear again.

Nittaya
June 29th, 2003, 8:47 pm
PLEASE READ

Well, i was not to belive my eyes during the killing of dear Sirius, it all happened so fast though I had been fearing that it woud be him who would die since Harrys dream of him and Voldemort.
But why? Is it to show how dreadful Harrys life is? the only thing that kept him going and his last remaining link to his parents (that we know of) being pulled away from him by some disturbed death eating hag?

But, what crossed my mind was the conversation between Dumbledores and Voldemort in their fight (page 718):
V-"There is nothing worse than death Dumbledore!"
D-"You are quite wrong" (actions) "Indeed, your failure to understand that there are things much worse than death has aways been your greatest weakness"

Now that is, a hint.
AND in his office, Dumbledore isn't that full of grief and sorrow over Sirius, (and I can just say that I shared Harrys impatient and anger towards him..) but there must be something more.
The viel hides a very deep mystery, no doubt about it, and sirius was killed by falling into it, not by some curse (he was hit by one yes, but I don't think it was leathal for nothing was said by Bellatrix, there was just the back and forth fiering going on)
and as disapointed I ever might be in Dumbedore througout this whole book- (I dind't recognize him at all and I don't care that he had to stay away from Harry because of Voldemorts possesing, the only time it felt like Dumbedore, was when he fought Umbridge and the other after the revial of the DA, that was intense!)
-I sense that his words needs to be marked.
they mean alot more than just small talk.
And I am surprised to see that none of you have paid attention to this.

Sirius might be dead, but there is more to it!
JK can't snitch Harrys beloved godfather and leave him with nothing but the Dursleys and I don't care what will be revialed about them, they are awfull now and forever.
It's horribel, this cliff hanger, what is it with the viel, and not to mention the mirror? I know a great deal of you, as myself had forgotten all about Sirius gift by the time Harry came across it again.
He can't just have found it as a reminder that if he had found it earlier, Sirius's life might have been saved in oh so many ways!
if that's the point of the mirror, it's beyond evil.

This might be a little long, but I got carried away. and may I put in that I have never cried so much, as I have reading this book. Not only because of the loss of Padfoot, but through it all it was such an amazing experience reading it, and It's the best book in the series, and might be the best book out there!
In my opinion.

Sami-chan---{-@
June 29th, 2003, 9:14 pm
when it comes to if black will come back i see three options...

1. he was killed by the veil so that later there will be a loop hole to get him back....:D

2. he was killed by the veil so that there is a loop hole where he can communicate with Harry...:)

3. he was killed by the veil so that his death seems unreal to Harry, it gives him no closure and makes his life harder. also that fact that there was no body will give him fulse hope bringing about more moments like the one with the miror in the comon room.....:'(

personaly i hope i'm right in my first option but i would probably bank on the therd one....

Arissya_00
June 29th, 2003, 9:18 pm
I'm with your second option

Sami-chan---{-@
June 29th, 2003, 9:22 pm
i still like my first one even if it wont happen but i think the therd one will if only for the first few chapters then the second one kicks in!

Arissya_00
June 29th, 2003, 9:25 pm
it will most likely be that way

Sami-chan---{-@
June 29th, 2003, 9:26 pm
i will still cry!!!

Sami-chan---{-@
June 29th, 2003, 9:33 pm
if harry can't have black back then i think he need someone....:rotfl: like a godmother......i think it would be Magonagal (how do you pell it??):??:


thats a good topic for another thred!

Arissya_00
June 29th, 2003, 9:38 pm
You mean McGonagall?
Well yeah I agree but still I firm with the theory that Sirius will appear somehow.

Sw33TLiLBuMbL3B
June 29th, 2003, 9:48 pm
Originally posted by Arissya_00 (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=403123#post403123))
Bellatrix's spell was not Avada Kedavra, because in Avada Kedavra there is a flash of green light, and a sudden rushing sound. When he died, it only said a JET of green light his him. It was definately the veil. However, he is NOT gone. He is just dead. He will appear again, I am sure, but he is dead, and he cannot come back to life. But he will appear again.



I agree with you.. except for one little thing... on page 805 its says...
"Harry saw Siruis duck Bellatrix's jet of red light............................ The second jet of light hit him squarely on the chest"


I agree it wasn't the Avada Kedavra that killed him... because Bellatrix used a red jet of light.... probably the Stupefy spell?... well my friend said that he was pobably stuned and can't do anything bout it. And I also agree that the veil was the reason he was killed.

hikari_no_tsubasa
June 29th, 2003, 10:08 pm
I too, think that Sirius is dead but not gone. I definitely have the feeling that he will be back... maybe as James and Lily "came back" in photographs, as Harry's PAtronus, as a result of Priori Incantatem etc... Maybe in a portrait. (?) We dont know if there are portraits of Sirius out there, and we also don't know how the subjects of portrait relate to their living selves... do they REMEMBER what happened to them in life?

But something Luna said toward the end of the book makes me think that we don't know all there is to know about the veil. Luna never said that Sirius was still alive, but she said that Harry would see him again (right? I'm not quoting, jsut remembering, so feel free to correct me if I'm wrong) Now, Luna tends to be right about most things. She's a little weird, but seems to know a lot about mysterious things, and if she heard voices from behind the veil...

I don't know what the veil is, I can't even pretend to guess... but I think Sirius will be back. Not like Gandalf, not like Obi-Wan, but somehow.

Sami-chan---{-@
June 29th, 2003, 10:08 pm
i also agree he was killed by the veil which brings up another point why the veil why not have him be killed by a spell? was it just so harry as an unreal view of his godfathers becouse theres no body?! of is it cuse the veil has a loop hole?!?! JKR said she had to rewrite the death seen to make the death more permanate....then why the veil it gives room for a loop hole....

Sami-chan---{-@
June 29th, 2003, 10:09 pm
sorry for the bad spelling i was typing fast

hprawksmahsawks
June 29th, 2003, 11:29 pm
Even though Sirius was killed by his "dear cousin" Bellatrix Lestrange,I think he'll come back somehow, in a portrait, or some other means of communication. We cannot be sure whether Sirius is killed or just trapped in the veil, because JK Rowling never mentioned what color the flash of light Bellatrix fired at Sirius,because if it had been green, then it was Avada Kedavra. But it is equally likely that Sirius is simply trapped behind the veil, and if he had escaped from a high-security jail cell in Azkaban, he should be able to get through that veil.

_____________________________________

hprawksmahsawks
June 29th, 2003, 11:31 pm
oops i mean:
________________________

JofpGallagher
June 29th, 2003, 11:39 pm
I find it curious all this thing about the death. I fusses me the fact that everybody was convienced that Sirius was death without checking his body!!! When you love somebody you want to go and 110% sure that person is death....Nobody ran to Sirius body. No one.
So, there is something odd in here. As many people say...the VEIL....what is behind the Veil we may know it in Book 6. Somebody said that once you pass the veil you are death.....Maybe that room was the Death penalty Chamber for wizards...once you were condemmed you were send to that room and pass through the Veil like an Electric Chair???....Hhhmmm What was the name of that room??? I think nobody says it in the book.

auramage
June 30th, 2003, 12:14 am
Dumbledore says to Fudge "...'you will find several escaped Death Eaters contained in the Death Chamber, bound by an Anti-Disapparation Jinx and awaiting your decision as to what to do with them.'"

I suspect that the death chamber is where the "mystery" of death is studied. But being set up with rows of seats suggests spectators, so perhaps it is (or was once) for putting someone to death.

auramage
June 30th, 2003, 12:18 am
Oh, and a veil in the death chamber probably has something to do with ... death? {g}

One can wax entirely philosophical about all the meanings behind the "mystery" ... the whisperings, the memory, whether a body is needed to prove someone dead or give a mourning person "closure", whether a dead person can come back through the veil ... But those are entirely fitting subjects for the Department of Mysteries. Or for our discussion here. :-)

GaryGag
June 30th, 2003, 12:21 am
Well, JKR said he's dead, so it must be true.

A u k i
June 30th, 2003, 1:23 am
I'm still not really sure about Sirius' Death. Most of me is on the side where he is dead, but not gone. He will be mentioned I am sure many times in the next book, probably as mentioned before to show the suggnifigance of His death to Harry.

But, part of me is on the chance of him still alive. Yes, JKR did cry upon mentioning the death in the book, but for all we know, she could be pulling something on us. Unlikely, but, if Sirius was in fact alive, JKR would want to cover it up, wouldn't she? It might seem all to obvious if she just shrugged casually upon the mention of the death?

Why I believe Sirius is alive, is that the viel was discribed poorly, in my opinion. Like there was something that Rowling did not want readers to know, something that could give certain things away.

As to the fact that Luna could also hear voices whispering behind the viel, this must have something to do with witnessing a death as well. Harry and Luna can see the Thestrals, but what confused me is that Neville could see the Threstrals too, couldn't he? And so, wouldn't that mean that Neville could hear the voices too? But how come he didn't speak up when Harry asked if anyone could hear the whispers behind the viel.

Yes, I think the viel has some sort of direct passage to what's beyond death, not death itself. For example, if such a thing as heaven existed, the viel would be a passage to heaven. And the voices? The people who reside there. But what happens when someone alive, like Sirius, passes through? He would not go to heaven, because he is not dead. Maybe Sirius is trapped between life and death, hoovering between.

Then I had to ask myself, how could Sirius return? Many possibilities ran through my head, like the option of Sirius using his animagus powers to transform into a dog, maybe somehow confusing the system to transfer him to whichever: The world or beyond.


Hah. Thats just my very long theory about the viel.

JofpGallagher
June 30th, 2003, 1:53 am
Originally posted by auramage (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=403729#post403729))
Dumbledore says to Fudge "...'you will find several escaped Death Eaters contained in the Death Chamber, bound by an Anti-Disapparation Jinx and awaiting your decision as to what to do with them.'"

I suspect that the death chamber is where the "mystery" of death is studied. But being set up with rows of seats suggests spectators, so perhaps it is (or was once) for putting someone to death.

Ohh I forgot that Dumbledore mentioned the name. That will make sense with the idea that this room or chamber is the place where wizards condemmed to death go. The chairs will be for the public interested to see the process (Maybe the people who was affected by the criminal's action). I think that Bellatrix didn't curse Sirius to death, it was the veil what kills him. That makes it very sad...:(

animagus1369
June 30th, 2003, 4:18 am
Originally posted by ArchChancellor (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=391307#post391307))
The clues stand thus:
Harry and Luna could hear the voices because they had seen people die.

Yet Neville had seen his grandfather die and could not hear the voices (or if he did, it wasn't mentioned).


Hermoine came over a fit of unease but could not hear the voices.
Dumbledore called it the Chamber of Death.
Lupin seemed to know about it and understood how it worked.

About death, however...
"Death is but the next great adventure to an organized mind"
"One of your greatest weaknesses... is thinking that death is the worst thing that can happen"
both from dumbledore

Foreshadowing for Voldemort info? Also possible foreshadowing for Lily/James info; they obviously didn't think death was the worst thing that could happen, as they both died willingly trying to save other members of their family (James- Lily and Harry; Lily- Harry).

It seems to me that the only way Harry will hear Sirius again is by listening to the veil... this sounds extremely dangerous, however. There seems to be an inner lure, something extraordinarily dark about it. It creeps me out, needless to say.


Does it remind anyone else of the Mirror of Erised plotline in SS?

Cheetah
June 30th, 2003, 4:40 am
I really don't think that Sirius, or anyone for that matter, can come back from behind the veil. It does not only symbolize death, it is death. If there was even a remote possibility of him still being alive all the people in the chamber (save the death-eaters) would have grabbed on to it. I know it's hard to accept someones death--and I should know, a friend of mine died yesturday--but he won't be coming back alive or as a ghost. Alive--becouse he can't go from behind the veil. As a ghost--becouse he moved on and was not afraid of deaths coming...Nick explsained it better than me on that one.

Arissya_00
June 30th, 2003, 4:40 am
Well, the Mirror of Erised shows what you desire, the veil, maybe lets you hear who you desire to meet???!!

Sami-chan---{-@
June 30th, 2003, 5:17 am
so maybe harry was hearing his parents and didn't know! maybe later he will figgure that out and then find a way to talk to sirius!!

Jaded_Wanderer
June 30th, 2003, 5:17 am
I got the impression that Bellatrix (sp?) Lestrange's curse/spell was what caused Sirius' - he appeared dead before he even hit the ground, with his expression changing then freezing. If it was the veil that killed Sirius, then why didn't it kill anyone else who fell down - there were plenty of ppl fighting all around it, falling over, and getting back up just fine.

If Sirius did die of a curse, then there seems even less chance of him returning than if they mysterious veil did.

Rowena Ravenclaw
June 30th, 2003, 5:25 am
Ah, denial. One of the first stages of grief.

The truth is, when people die, particularly if it's as sudden and seemingly random a death as Sirius's was, there isn't always a body. All you have is the fact that person isn't there any more. And as the absence grows longer, eventually reality outweighs the hope.

Rowling's made it pretty clear that death is final in Harry's world. Sirius will probably still live on in other characters' memories, but we're not going to see him in the flesh again.

Cheetah
June 30th, 2003, 5:32 am
[i]Originally posted by queengumby
I got the impression that Bellatrix (sp?) Lestrange's curse/spell was what caused Sirius' - he appeared dead before he even hit the ground, with his expression changing then freezing. If it was the veil that killed Sirius, then why didn't it kill anyone else who fell down - there were plenty of ppl fighting all around it, falling over, and getting back up just fine.


It doesnt kill anyone who falls down when a curse hjits them... it takes the souls of people already dead and consequently it just takes people when they fall through. Wonder what would happend if you just put an arm or a foot behind it but stayed on the other side...:whistle:

animagus1369
June 30th, 2003, 5:33 am
Originally posted by Arissya_00 (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=404556#post404556))
Well, the Mirror of Erised shows what you desire, the veil, maybe lets you hear who you desire to meet???!!


Well, sure, that too! I was thinking more of the idea that it was his only way to see someone lost to him (mirror - his parents; veil - Sirius) and the way he became obsessed with going to see it despite the danger.

RainbowBrite1315
June 30th, 2003, 5:48 am
DD told Voldie that there was something worse than death...what is it?:??:

What kind of spell did Bellatrix (I certainly hope Voldemort killed her arse!) use on Sirius? The spell she used before the one that caused him to fall was red but it doesn't say what color the next one was. Avada Kadavra is green so he may not have been dead before he fell back.

Luna's mother was killed in an experiment so she was appearently dead before she was in the place behind the veil.
If Sirius wasn't dead before he fell, is it possible for him to find a way out?

Three things Luna says that make me scratch my head:
"There are people in there " p774
"And anyway, its' not as though I'll never see Mum again, is it?" p863
"They were just lurking out of sight, that's all." p863

What is truly behind the veil? If it is a place for those who have died, what about Sirius...if he wasn't dead before?

Maybe I'm having a case of leaking brains (or mine are in the aquarium with the rest...maybe mine attacked Ron :) )...What exactly is a dias?

One more thing and I SWEAR I'll shut up...did anyone notice the wizards, owl, broomstick, parchment, books, snake and what looks to be a spider in the illustration of Ch 35? Is there some sort of symbolism behind that???????:??:

Fast Luck
June 30th, 2003, 9:22 am
The archway and the veil are a direct gateway to death. The room they were in was like the "Chamber of Death," or something like that, where they study death, and it apparently, from the description, used to be an execution chamber. So Sirius is most definitely dead. The spell he was hit by was described as red, and avada kedavra is green, so the spell itself probably did not kill him, but falling through the archway did.

Also, when Luna says her mother is behind the veil, and says, "You heard them," I don't think she means she actually heads over to the Department of Mysteries and speaks to her mother. And I don't think she could, anyway. The whispering means that there is some kind of something after death, that once dead, the people still exist in some way, and they are not gone.

caroline40
June 30th, 2003, 10:28 am
Lupin obviously knew about the veil as he told Harry that Sirius was definately dead having fallen through it.
However Hermione seems to know about it as earlier she warns Harry to come away from it but how does she know ? or is she just guessing.

Also could Sirius have used a switching spell or something to hide from Voldemort and may not be the one who died (clutching at straws now)

j3n
June 30th, 2003, 12:38 pm
i agree with you all!i cant believe it, didnt bother me when i read it first, just the more i think about it it just seems such a shame to kill off a great character.But then i suppose its for maximum impact and the fact that harry loses someone who's the closest he ever got to a father figure oh idunno its just so sad!! but i do think that he'll be back in some form in the future books (and not in a desperate way!)and i hope we find out more about the archway?veil-i really think that will be important.some way of communication maybe?and the mirror well cant he do that repairing spell!?well anway if the next books shorter then lets hope its out sooner i cant wait...next week maybe!?

Marethiel
June 30th, 2003, 1:06 pm
Sirius is dead, gone, has passed on and will not return in human form. I highly doubt JKR would pull a Gandalf on us and have him return, like some other people mentioned, it'd be a lot like other novels; Hero looses someone special, mourns, person comes back etc. I mean, I did feel terrible during his death and wish he would come back, but come on. "Sirius, you're back!" "Yes Harry, now we can go frolic through fields full of flowers in happiness!" It's too predictable-totally UN-JKR like.

I do think, however, that we will understand this veil more in upcoming books. I believe it is a symbolism of death, and once you fall through, no coming back. Luna said she heard voices behind it, I think that you can still talk to people beyond the veil but not just physically see them. I think that Harry is going to see some form of Sirius again, just like in PoA, Harry saw some form of his father [Stag]. Like Dumbledore mentioned earlier in the series, "The dead never truly leave us."

Euthrel
June 30th, 2003, 1:08 pm
Now then!
Please..
Can you tell me how the late Sirius died??

I have 100 pages left to read and I have 2 hours left at work!

slave 4 snape
June 30th, 2003, 1:22 pm
Originally posted by Thayet (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=388730#post388730))


And as we dont know exactly what spell it was, it could simply have been a stunning spell, and the veil - will we hear more about that? The veil, although they heard whispering voices behind it, and Luna said she could talk to her mother beyond it, that implies that she is dead. In fact, Luna can see the thestrals as she saw her mother die, but what if the veil has a sort of trapped death? It wouldn't surprise me if a twist was made so that people trapped within the veil could be released.



if i'm not mistaken, we do know what spell it was that Bellatrix cast on Sirius. If you re-read that chapter and possibly the chapter before it, it makes quite a few mentions that when the Cruciatus curse is used, red sparks or a jet of red light comes out of the wand. It's the same with the Avada Kedavra curse except that spell emits green sparks/light.

When Sirius was ducking Bellatrix's blasts from her wand, she was shooting red sparks/light at him. Once she had hit him with the Cruciatus curse, Sirius keeled over and fell into the veil.

**** THAT HAG TO DEATH BY AVADA KEDAVRA!! She has quite possibly the funkiest name, but she ought to DIE!!!!!!!

Anywyas, getting back to the point, we do know what spell was used - it was the Cruciatus curse.

I think I'm going to cry :'(

But i love the idea of the veil being a trapped death. Luna i think is going to have a big part in the next books.

~*Natalie*~

JofpGallagher
June 30th, 2003, 2:50 pm
Originally posted by RainbowBrite1315 (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=404814#post404814))
DD told Voldie that there was something worse than death...what is it?

What kind of spell did Bellatrix (I certainly hope Voldemort killed her arse!) use on Sirius? The spell she used before the one that caused him to fall was red but it doesn't say what color the next one was. Avada Kadavra is green so he may not have been dead before he fell back.

I really don't think that A.K. is a green spell.....Apparently, all spells that Voldemort does are green, that would explain the green color. Slythering's color is green too!!!....Dumblledore color is Silver apparently, and Harry's Red??? I noticed that apparently the stunning spell is red, but I still think that the color of wizard's spell depend on their personalities.

Cheetah!...I'm sorry to learn you have lost a friend :(

Finally, somebody was saying that Hermione knew what is behind the veil...and she does not. There is a part of the book (Page 775 American version) Hermione says:
"I don't know what it is (About the archway), but whatever it was, it was dangerous"

girl_wizardry
June 30th, 2003, 3:06 pm
Originally posted by Euthrel (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=405626#post405626))

Can you tell me how the late Sirius died??

I have 100 pages left to read and I have 2 hours left at work!


Omg! Then this thread must be a real spoiler to you!! You don't mind being spoiled?! Even when I'm 100+pages left to read i still avoid this discussion thread..i hate spoilers!! I don't really wanna say cos i'll spoil it for you. Read on. It's not far away. :)

Anyway topicwise, i really don't wanna admit this but yea, i think Sirius is really dead. If he's not then why would J.K take it so seriously then? Because he fell into the death chamber so i'll just take the hint from there that those who fell into the chamber can't get back up or live. So yea...he's gone. :(

JessS*
June 30th, 2003, 3:19 pm
I think he's dead too, but it's just such a loss that maybe JK would like Earindale said, pull a Gandalf....that would be reall uplifting for lots of fans.....poor Harry, better hope Lupin doesnt die.....(Sirius was a 3rd parent)

Imperio! (Crucio!)
June 30th, 2003, 6:20 pm
JK said in an interview that he was definately dead. however i dont think sirius is dead. the atmospehere didnt seem right. there was no tension building up to it.

PhoenixFeather
June 30th, 2003, 6:46 pm
What about the time room? With the clocks and the belljar? Could someone use time to bring him back maybe?

insaneone
June 30th, 2003, 6:50 pm
I'm startting to admire JKR more and more each second.

With Sirius' death she has made many people experience as though someone they really know has just died, just look at how you react: denial. Refusing to believe death is final and hoping that is not true.

And that's the point in this: death is final, and there is no denial for that.

And isn't it wonderfull to see how we all act very human and try to deny that very fact?

Cheetah
June 30th, 2003, 6:50 pm
[i]Originally posted by JofpGallagher
Cheetah!...I'm sorry to learn you have lost a friend :(



Thanks.

But unless Sirius has a child somewhre that produses a Padfoot patronus (yea right) he's gone out of this world.

Didn't Nick say he's moved on? Maybe we'll see the moved on verson... How do they move on, get reborn or something?

Mad-I Moody
June 30th, 2003, 7:03 pm
Sirius is definitely gone. I hope we will see some form of him again (since we have seen other dead people in various forms), but I do not believe we will ever see a live Sirius again.

How depressing.

hermownninny
June 30th, 2003, 7:17 pm
yeah..I also think he is gone...It's like real life..and not even wizards can bring someone back to life.... (Remember that voldemort wasn't really dead, so he could come back)...So I think we won't see anyone that is dead in the future...

jaedi
June 30th, 2003, 8:59 pm
I think that Sirius is dead but not gone forever. Earlier in this thread someone mentioned that everything JK writes is important, not just filler. I agree with that totally. So if everything has a purpose, maybe the purpose of writting all those interactions with the former headmasters' portraits was to foreshadow Harry's (and other people's) interaction with a portrait of Sirius.
I also think that Dumbledore would have been a bit more sympathetic if Sirius was really gone because he was the only adult that really knew how much Sirius meant to Harry. (He would also be the only one to know what really happened to Sirius.)

musicalyoshi
June 30th, 2003, 9:02 pm
He's dead...JKR said so for one thing...and I think that the veil he fell through is something he can't get out of...he's gone and i really don't think she's gonna bring him back

JofpGallagher
June 30th, 2003, 9:03 pm
And....talking about the time turners...Harry and Hermione used them to save two lives....One that was already dead (The Hippogrif) and Sirius who was still alive.....So if it worked to change the past in order to "revive" somebody already dead...hmmm...it makes me wonder...Why is it not used again???
Well...anyway, I think it's already too late....many days have passed. How many turns to the time turner would be needed? A lot!!!

Ollivander
June 30th, 2003, 9:05 pm
he is gone. JKR would not have cried if she was planning on bringing him back. if someone else brings up another post like this im going to go crazy, STOP ASKING! no one knows, and everyone has voiced there opinion like 2000000 times about this topic

JofpGallagher
June 30th, 2003, 9:06 pm
Hey Ollivander!!! :p.....Take it easy!!...There are people who likes to talk about it...even if it's painful or leads to nowhere...and you can't deny there is something odd in this death.

jn2585
July 1st, 2003, 12:24 pm
I was just thinking about the death. How did he actually die? ...because it wasn't the Avarda Kedavra curse (sorry if spelt wrong). It said it was a "jet of red light," not green. I'm also unsure as to whether the veil alone is enough to kill him. Who knows, maybe I'm wrong. I think Harry will be able to communicate to him through the whispers, possibly. I don't think the mirror would have worked anyway, even though he's broken it now. But what I was wondering about was whether Sirius has had a portrait done. We all know that Past Headmasters can still communicate via their portraits and the Fat Lady, Sir Cadagon etc etc. I just wonder if that might be the case with the character who died. What do you think??

Prof. Burns
July 1st, 2003, 12:26 pm
You can say his name, ya know.

You're right, Bella hit him with a Stunning Spell (Stupify), and he stumbled behind the veil, which according to Lupin, isn't a good thing.

My sister read that part and said the same thing. We'll know in the 6th book.

Veritaserum
July 1st, 2003, 12:27 pm
Yeh I reckon we have. I mean I'm sure J.K said somewhere that she had to kill him off and that was it and now he's gone. I don't think we'll be seeing anymore of him.

Veritaserum

mimbletonia
July 1st, 2003, 12:46 pm
sigh. jkr said that sirius is gone and definitely gone. she rewrote the scene twice and that's it. he's gone. the most he will ever appear again is an echo...

ellie
July 1st, 2003, 1:43 pm
I was in denial for quite a while but I think he is actually dead, although that's not to say he hasn't got some part to play like in memories. I think she's saying that death can be sudden and unfair and there isn't always a reason, but I hope we do get some reason in the next books. If he died for no reason it seems like a waste of a great character to me. And if the only reason was to teach Harry about loss, well he's already lost his parents and seen Cedric die, poor boy! There's definitley more to come but whether Harry will get to see/speak to Sirius in some form I don't know - perhaps something philiosophical about death only being a stage of existence? There has to be more about the veil - does it make a difference that Sirius was alive when he fell through?

tree guardian
July 1st, 2003, 1:52 pm
Yes.

Those them apples.

Emilemily
July 1st, 2003, 2:09 pm
If only Harry had remembered the mirrior.... maybe if Sirius didn't have the mirrior with him when he died, then they could... maybe throw it into the veil and see what happens if they fix Harry's and then maybe they could communicate with Sirius? or maybe it takes a while to become a ghost, and Sirius isn't quite there yet, or maybe he did become a ghost, but is making his way to Hogwarts or something... or perhaps he wants his name cleared, so then he can have permission to go to Hogwarts and become a school ghost. For a while at least.

HPviolinist85
July 1st, 2003, 2:40 pm
His charactor was developing and I honestly thought that she had more in store for him and he was the last person we expected to die. I think that he's going to serve another purpose in the books and Harry will be able to do SOMETHING to see him at least once more "to say goodbye" or something.

Eruanna
July 1st, 2003, 2:43 pm
i think we;'ll hear his voice behind the veil....like luna said....

Tomsk
July 1st, 2003, 2:45 pm
But the voices were only vague wispers- how do we know Harry will be able to pit out Sirius?

JofpGallagher
July 1st, 2003, 3:16 pm
Maybe the voices behind the veil can be heard by some people only..Like the Thestrals can be seen only for people who has seen death. I wonder.

Da_Goose
July 1st, 2003, 3:37 pm
About that mirror why doesn't anybody think harry can repair it with the spell "Reparo".

Da_Goose
July 1st, 2003, 3:43 pm
Now about the veil. Maybe you can only hear the voices of the people you saw die? Just a thought Harry might have been to far away to hear the voices of Lily and James Potter, Cedric, Sirius?

She's Crafty
July 1st, 2003, 3:53 pm
Just going to impart some words of my own here.

Firstly, i've no doubt Sirius is dead. As has already been said, it's too corny in a been-there-and-so-done-that way and frankly it is totally unlike JK Rowling - the finality of death is a major theme of Harry Potter. When people are dead they stay dead. Just like in reality.

I know some people think that the death did not seen right and the circumstances were not 'fitting.' Well, at first i agreed completely and felt somewhat cheated on Sirius' behalf (yes, i'm aware he's fictional!) that he got such a tame ending.

But then it occured to me that this was what made Sirius' death so tragic - it was so needless and out of the blue. Most deaths are not heroic or any kind of 'blaze of glory' ending - most deaths are sudden, shocking and senseless. Cedric's was just the same but nobody made quite such a fuss about it as he wasn't as close to Harry's (and our) heart as Sirius.

I know we wish he had died in more spectacular circumstances because he was a character we loved but that just isn't what happens sometimes.

Ok, i'm done.

Ali1024
July 1st, 2003, 6:23 pm
I believe Sirius to be %100 dead also. I don't understand the Veil though, is it just a doorway into a room of whipsering dead people? I was very confused by what Luna said about them (the people behind the veil) staying out of sight. Could Sirius perhaps come out from behind the veil, or could it be a way for Harry to talk to him. I know most people are as equally confused about this as I am, but if you have any explanations they are greatly appreciated.

Dormitorius Draco
July 4th, 2003, 1:51 am
So she only tortured him and he fell into the veil....and the veil's supposedly the gateway to death (whatever that implies)....I wonder what happens to a living person who crossed the gateway to death, does that means they defintely die too or maybe just kinda like limbo-ish existance?

Sami-chan---{-@
July 4th, 2003, 2:06 am
i dont think it was the Cruciatus curse i think it was Suplefy cuz that jinx is a jet/beem of red light and when black was pushed though the veil it said

"Harry saw Sirius duck Bellatrix's jet of red light: he was laughing at her "Come on, you can do better then that!" he yelled his voice echoed around the cavernus room.
the second jet of light hit him square in the chest"

as i said before the stuplefy is a jet of red light not sparks like the Cruciatus.

snitch14
July 4th, 2003, 2:23 am
Originally posted by Fast Luck (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=405331#post405331))
Also, when Luna says her mother is behind the veil, and says, "You heard them," I don't think she means she actually heads over to the Department of Mysteries and speaks to her mother. And I don't think she could, anyway. The whispering means that there is some kind of something after death, that once dead, the people still exist in some way, and they are not gone.


I agree. JK will probably make up a way for Harry and Sirius to communicate and if that is possible, then Harry could finally talk to his parents, no?

Shadsie Black
July 4th, 2003, 2:36 am
It was definitely the Stupefy - if you will please note the look on Sirius's face when he died. It said there was a look of "mingled fear and surprise". With the Cruciatus Curse you're screaming so your face is screwed up or something.
Anyhow, Sirius is gone for good. We have so many things telling us this for sure - J.K., Dumbledore, Lupin - that we can't be in any doubt that he is gone. I am hoping, however, that there will be some simpler way of talking to him than through the veil (if, in fact, you can talk to people through that). I know he's not coming back :( , but if we can at least hear something from him so he can help Harry cope with it all, and give him some advice and such, I'll be happier. I'll still cry though. :'( Why did it have to be my favorite character?! :'(
BELLATRIX MUST DIE! I hope J.K. kills her off and makes it long... and... extremely... painful... words cannot describe how much I hate her.
I'm done - I'm starting to cry again. :(

snitch14
July 4th, 2003, 2:38 am
JK will have to make a way for Harry to feel a little better bout his loss of his godfather. sirius might give some words of encouragement through 'some' way...

whizbang121
July 4th, 2003, 2:44 am
Originally posted by Hawk 92 (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=389032#post389032))

Not to be rude but if he does come back and give Harry advice in ghost form won't that be a little too Star Wars like? Kind of like when Obi Wan kept reappearing to Luke.

Cheers!


So, here's the thing. Lucas is a genius. There are not enough words to describe his vision. And he uses timeless and universal themes in his amazing work. I adore Star Wars, and I know exactly what you mean.

But, you might as well say, "Isn't that a little too Shakespeare with Hamlet's father coming back to tell him what's going on?" These themes are used in a variety of cultures and times. Lucas, much as I admire him, didn't think them up.

He did, however, think up the Wookie ..... I think.;D

snitch14
July 4th, 2003, 2:46 am
but JK IS planning something, cause killing off Sirius just like that is part of the plot that she just had to do

whizbang121
July 4th, 2003, 3:59 am
Originally posted by atac109 (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=396563#post396563))
One more thing: could falling beyond the veil be the only way for Harry to kill Voldemort? Probably not...but maybe.


That's been my thinking. They seem to neutralize each other, so far. It's like they are perfectly matched so neither can kill the other. So, I think it will have to be something like Harry tricking Voldemort into doing himself in, like falling through the veil. But Voldemort makes enough mistakes that Harry might not have to trick him at all. His pride and over confidence may do him in without any help at all.

fairylights
July 4th, 2003, 6:32 pm
I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned this. Harry and Neville were the only kids in the room when he fell through the veil. If Ron or Hermione had been there, whether or not they can see thestrals next book would tell us whether Sirius is dead or not. I know JK said the death was definate and all. But it didn't seem like it when I read it. It was really vague. Too vague. If she really wanted him dead as a doornail why not hit him with Avada Kedavra, or stab him in the heart or something? But then, who am I to fathom the ways of JK.

Nebulosa
July 4th, 2003, 8:14 pm
Atar I agree with you

The veil Is death Harry and Luna could hear the whispers because they had seen death and Harry was attracted by because the once he loved most were dead somehow I am sure Harry wishes to die,
You do sometimes when you lose someone you love with all your heart. And he will be tempted even more in the future. But I still hope he doesn’t die

and the whispers will play a major role in the next books

I am betting on Snape…I think that one will surprise us in the future……positively…

snitch14
July 4th, 2003, 9:03 pm
i agree that the death was very vague, i didn't even understand what happened after the first time i read it. after lupin said it's over or whatever, i quickly went back to re-read a few more times...

the whispering ... could that be the whispering of the people you saw die?

Nebulosa
July 4th, 2003, 9:13 pm
yeah of your loved ones........

snitch14
July 4th, 2003, 9:15 pm
wonder if u got close to the veil and listened contently, u could hear some of those whispers :??:

whizbang121
July 4th, 2003, 9:48 pm
That might not be a good idea. Remember how Harry felt drawn towards the veil? Might you not just slip through unaware?
Hermione seemed to think it was dangerous to get too close to it.

snitch14
July 4th, 2003, 9:50 pm
so, what'll happen if u get too close? die?

ELsEviER
July 4th, 2003, 9:52 pm
I don't think sirius will be brought back to live again! I do think we will see more of him, maybe harry goes back to the veil and talk to him, Luna could do it so he can to!

Nebulosa
July 4th, 2003, 10:10 pm
Harry has people he loves behind the veil and death may just be passage and the arch the door, and in the next book he will probably be more attracted by it because he has almost nothing to lose no one that keeps him here.. To Herm death on the other hand is only dangerous something unknown and scary since she has everything to lose

I don’t want Harry to be a dead hero….. :O( hope he finds a new reason to live…

Arissya_00
July 4th, 2003, 10:53 pm
Whatever lurks behind the veil, definately is the souls of the beloved, dead, and if you get too close, you will probably slip in and die...

snitch14
July 5th, 2003, 12:01 am
Interesting bout the veil.

Harry does have reasons to go on living. He didn't get revenge on Voldie and Wormtail.

He has friends and family that REALLY care bout him.

He has his life ahead of him, unless of course JK decides to end it at his late age of 17..

Nebulosa
July 5th, 2003, 12:27 am
....and yet so alone....

iloveron77
July 5th, 2003, 1:09 am
Considering the fact that JKR's husband said that he found her crying when she was writing off Sirius, i dont think that he will be coming back to life. That would just be really corny..... But i do think that we will learn alot more about his past, and i think that Harry will probably find a way to communicate with him, one last time, but after that, he will probably decide that it is bad to dwell on his death, like Dumbledore said it was bad for him to dwell on his dreams of meeting his parents when he staring at The Mirror of Erised night after night........... ~iloveron77

snitch14
July 5th, 2003, 5:35 pm
*nods vigorously* i agree! sirius is dead, period. but harry WILL find out more bout him, either through friends or he will communicate with him...


but wait! if sirius can be communicated to, then surely harry's parents?

jerb
July 6th, 2003, 1:11 am
I hope Harry does not find a way to communicate with Sirius. It would make death seem less ... something. He's dead, cope with it and attempt to move on.

Maybe I am being too harsh. But there has to be a divide between the living and the dead. You cannot cross the divide and then return.

Sami-chan---{-@
July 6th, 2003, 1:36 am
well if he is talking to him thats not a return plus i think Harry needs to talk to him at least one more time becouse his death seemed unreal to Harry and he needs know it was final and sirius can get that though to him.

Arissya_00
July 6th, 2003, 1:49 am
Originally posted by snitch14 (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?postid=424335#post424335))
*nods vigorously* i agree! sirius is dead, period. but harry WILL find out more bout him, either through friends or he will communicate with him...


but wait! if sirius can be communicated to, then surely harry's parents?


ARe you talking about that Harry can communicate with his parents if he can with Sirius? Well, he can, and he did at the end of GoF, and I think that even though Lily and James were his parents, he knew Sirius longer and probably had a deeper bond, so he probably will tend to think of Sirius more and communicate with him.Somehow.:whistle:

whizbang121
July 6th, 2003, 2:42 am
I was a little disappointed that Sirius didn't become a ghost. But I suppose Jerb is right. We all, Harry included, have to move on.

Camo
July 6th, 2003, 4:38 am
I hope we see more of Sirius and learn more about him. About the whole veil thing and him coming back, i'm not sure but the thing is he is definately no longer alive or else JK wouldn't have made such a fuss over it like the quote syaing she cried when she did it.

Nebulosa
July 6th, 2003, 7:50 pm
Maybe they are really studying if there is a way to come back or to visit the afterlife

A thing is sure we will find that arch again….

Wakkachuta
July 7th, 2003, 12:10 pm
I think Sirius is definitely dead. But I hope that the veil and the Death Chamber will be explained in more detail in the 6th or 7th book.
Unfortunately I don't think that Harry will be able to communicate with Sirius. I agree with Jerb. If he could communicate with Sirius, his death would seem less real. But I think it will take quite a while for Harry to move on.

Iola
July 7th, 2003, 3:51 pm
The one and only archway btw life n death in Britain? Why not France? Germany or even Fiji?

whizbang121
July 7th, 2003, 4:31 pm
Originally posted by Iola (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?postid=430933#post430933))
The one and only archway btw life n death in Britain? Why not France? Germany or even Fiji?


Exactly!

And in the dept of mysteries? I think this arch is not just the portal to the afterlife. It may kill you if you pass through it, but there's more (or less) to it than that.

snitch14
July 7th, 2003, 7:37 pm
death portal, the department of mystery has it to...?

examine death?

Mander
July 7th, 2003, 8:05 pm
the death really didn't seem so dramatic to me. like therewan't enough to work with! Mybae i"ve missed something.I have to re-read it.

snitch14
July 7th, 2003, 8:06 pm
the death wasn't dramatic, it was very vague

padfootsgirl
July 7th, 2003, 10:43 pm
I seriously don't think he's gone. (no pun intended) I believe that there will be some way to bring him back in the next book. It just won't be the same with out Padfoot there and i don't think the plot would be as good without him back.

Katze
July 7th, 2003, 10:48 pm
Originally posted by snitch14 (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?postid=431411#post431411))
the death wasn't dramatic, it was very vague


It was so quiet and unnoticed. I think that was her point though - to show how quickly and quietly it can happen. Right before your eyes and POOF - they are gone. :(

Nebulosa
July 8th, 2003, 12:28 am
you have no idea how quick this can happen.........

snitch14
July 8th, 2003, 12:36 am
quickly and quietly. u can explain it like that too.

i guess more will be revealed later on

Hpmons
July 8th, 2003, 5:56 pm
What a cheerful lot we are!

I dont think we will see Sirius alive again (apart from in Harrys dreams; hell probably dream that he is alive, and nothing has really happened); and I dont think Sirius will become a ghost. But...I somehow think we will somehow meet Sirius again, perhaps after Harry kills Voldermort, he goes near the veil and hears Sirius talking to him...Nah, sounds too far-fetched...

snitch14
July 8th, 2003, 6:03 pm
we WILL see sirius again, in some way

whizbang121
July 8th, 2003, 6:13 pm
What if the Dept of Mysteries uses the arch and veil setup to study ways to communicate with those who have died? If that is an active, ongoing study, someone will probably work out a way to Sirius and others.

snitch14
July 8th, 2003, 6:15 pm
that's what i've been trying to say. M.O.M. doesn't have that veil for decorations. they'r studying death more closely and maybe trying to find ways to communicate wit em.


hey, i wonder what would have happened if the veil wasn't there? would sirius still be with us?

fairylights
July 8th, 2003, 6:53 pm
Originally posted by whizbang121 (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?postid=427713#post427713))

If it was just the portal of the dead to the afterlife, wouldn't be in a place of farewell to departed loved ones? Why the seating?



Mmmm... the room is called the Death Chamber. There is a gateway to certain death there, surrounded by amphitheatre style seating. It's on the same corridor as the wizard high court. At some point, I can't remember when or where, Vernon asked Harry if his lot had the death penalty.
Perhaps there was a time when wizards didnt know about Dementors, when there were no Dementors at Azkaban, or maybe there wasn't an Azkaban. Maybe one time they did have the death penalty, and the Death Chamber is where is all went down.
Maybe there are no other gateways in France, or Germany, or Fiji or whatever because the gates were destroyed when the death penalty was abolished. But England kept their one to study death some more. Maybe they're not meant to have it, and that's why they can't flaunt it around.
Just my thoughts on it.

Sami-chan---{-@
July 8th, 2003, 7:37 pm
yeah he would he only got hit by a stuplrfy spell, look back at the conversation couplr days ago we talked about.

Lady Black
July 8th, 2003, 7:40 pm
Sirius is dead. But we will hear a lot about him in the future books. Maybe in Harry dreams, pensieves or that mirror that Harry finds in his trunk. After all, what will be the use of that mirror anyway?

siriusblack84
July 8th, 2003, 7:49 pm
I really wanted to read all the stuff being mentioned here but the thought of Sirius's death makes my insides whirl if you get the feeling....IT JUST MAKES ME SOOOOOO SAD THAT I CAN"T TAKE IT!!!I have to keep on reminding to myself that he's just a fictional character(not that it works...)
I don't think that Rowling is the type of person who would bring anyone back from the dead and it's the fact that she said he is definetely dead
BUT....we've been on the hunt for rumours for 3 years now and we all knew that someone was going to die so when the thing came we all said he's dead...I've got a friend who's an HP fan too but she wasn't that maniac about rumours...everytime I mention Sirius's death she keeps on saying that we can't be sure he's dead because we don't know anything about the veil....My answere is that if there was a chance of him being alive wouldn't anyone told Harry?I mean seriously Dumbledoor knows what's beyond that veil.....!!!!I wISH HE WASN"T DEAD....and I definetely thing we're gonna hear more about,from and for him....

SIRIUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUS!I LOVE UUUUUUU!!!

whizbang121
July 8th, 2003, 8:55 pm
Originally posted by fairylights (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?postid=435163#post435163))
Mmmm... the room is called the Death Chamber. There is a gateway to certain death there, surrounded by amphitheatre style seating. It's on the same corridor as the wizard high court. At some point, I can't remember when or where, Vernon asked Harry if his lot had the death penalty.
Perhaps there was a time when wizards didnt know about Dementors, when there were no Dementors at Azkaban, or maybe there wasn't an Azkaban. Maybe one time they did have the death penalty, and the Death Chamber is where is all went down.
Maybe there are no other gateways in France, or Germany, or Fiji or whatever because the gates were destroyed when the death penalty was abolished. But England kept their one to study death some more. Maybe they're not meant to have it, and that's why they can't flaunt it around.
Just my thoughts on it.


Very reasonable conclusions. Darn.

snitch14
July 8th, 2003, 9:02 pm
so, we're back where we started. sirius is dead...

whizbang121
July 8th, 2003, 9:11 pm
There must be a portrait of him somewhere. Why are the dead headmasters so alive and well and even mobile in their portraits?


Did Harry break the mirror?

Ecthelion
July 8th, 2003, 9:40 pm
Did Harry break the mirror?

As a matter of fact, it is. When Harry thought that he might be able to communicate with Sirius through the mirror, and it failed, he whipped the mirror in his trunk where it broke. Whether it can be fixed with a "reparo", I don't know, but as of now, it's broken.

As for the original subject, we won't see Sirius alive but maybe in an etheral form if any. Sort of like he saw his parents in the end of GOF (Ghosts) I personally would like that much better than alive, because that would defeat the purpose of teaching people the consequences of death. Showing the person alive would contridict the lesson. As much as this book is told to be a creative and thrilling story, it's also there to show morals and life lessons.....death being one of them.

Hawk 92
July 8th, 2003, 10:45 pm
I was kind of wondering if Sirius might have left a memory of himself preserved in a diary. Like Tom Riddle in Cos. This way Harry would get to talk to him one more time (although it would be his memory and not really him) and at the same time Sirius could show Harry the memories that Sirius had of James and Lilly.

Cheers!

Arissya_00
July 8th, 2003, 11:20 pm
I highly doubt that Sirius left a diary; he isn't the kind of person to pour his secrets in a journal. However, the mirror can be fixed with reparo, I'm sure, and it will appear again because Harry didn't throw it away, he only threw it into the bottom of his trunk. And we will see Sirius again, not alive, but I think Harry will be able to communicate with him

Hawk 92
July 8th, 2003, 11:38 pm
A diary, an enchanted note or letter, a pensive filled with memories of Harry's parents. I think that Sirius would have left something behind for Harry. It's the what that I'm unsure of.

Cheers!