All about Remus Lupin

Lupin's best qualities, I think, is that he's very well-rounded and very compassionate. He isn't exceptional at much if at anything, and can't get carried away by being great or being weak. He's mild and works well on the surface. He also has a good deal of common sense, which is more than useful.

On him being compassionate, I think that being a werewolf and having to stew on his problems made him very sympathetic to other people's problems, and he knows what help they need because he needed that help.

In my opinion, Lupin is the next Dumbledore!

But he has something that Dumbledore doesnt have...I cant explain it, but I prefer him to Dumbledore because of it...He is someone you can talk to with your problems, but in a way, Dumbledore is a bit too...Impressive or something, and so people wouldnt come to him unless it was important.

I agree with Tarawyn that being a werewolf has made him more understanding with other people. Also, a lot of people are afraid of werewolves, and I think that he feels he shoudl show people that werewolves are like anybody else 27 days of the month.

He is wonderful at making people realise things (e.g. with Harry and the Maurauders Map), and he is also quite down-to-earth.

I have to say, I disagree with anything about Wormtails silver hand and werewolves. Its too predictable, and I think that JKR knows that. She takes basics things from Mythology and other liturature, and changes them to suit her own story. I dont think the fact that silver can kill a werewolf is important in the Harry Potter books.

Well, we all know he's just brilliant, right? :)
Although I have been wondering about that... Whenever the Marauders are mentioned by old friends, teachers, etc., they mention James and Sirius as the brilliant, talented ones. We know Pettigrew's weakness, so where does that leave Remus? He seems very intelligent and talented in PoA but is never mentioned as exceptional. Perhaps he is more street-smart than book-smart?

I think Lupin is more the hard-studying type. Remember the Pensieve scene in OoTP? Maybe he isn't brilliant, but I think he has a lot of knowledge in many fields.

Lupin has an innate kindness and gentleness which I think is an excellent contrast to the wildness of the beast he becomes every month. Lupin has had the crappiest life, he's shunned as an outcast, one of his supposed best friends betrayed the other, now of course Sirius is dead...........yet he still maintains a cheerful demeanour and is able to smile. It wasn't his teaching abilities that made the students respect him I don't think, it was that unlike Snape, he used kindness rather than ridicule to get the best out of his students.

I also think Dumbledore asked Lupin to be on the train to Hogwarts. Sirius had just escaped, and Dumbledore knew that Dementors were prowling around Hogsmeade and were outside the school..............and Dumbledore has never trusted the Dementors, has he, and with good reason too I might add. I think maybe Dumbledore suspected they would maybe board the train and he asked Lupin to be on hand in case they were since I assume that no one on it would know how repel them. Just my own theory of course.

I reckon Lupin got the train to Hogwarts because he couldn't get there any other way. You can't apparate inside the Hogwarts grounds, and he seems to be pretty much broke when we first meet him, so he wouldn't be able to pay for transport. Anyway, he needed to be there for us to get our first mysterious glimpse of him (dreamy sigh...ah, I love that scene!). I love the way that everything he says is hiding so much...like when he talks to Harry for the first time, it seems like nothing, but actually he's talking to his dead best friend's son for the first time ever...he must be quite a bloke to be able to do that so calmly. Bless him! *hugs Lupin*

Lupin has an innate kindness and gentleness which I think is an excellent contrast to the wildness of the beast he becomes every month.

Most other werewolves of fiction are manipulative, devious, violent and angry. The kind and charming Professor Lupin is not the kind of man you could easily imagine running around on all fours, a snarling furry beast. In a horribly sadistic and cold way, I find this factor hilarious! In a wouldn't-be-funny-if-real way, of course. It's sad if you linger on it and it's very upsetting in the context.

*Snarrrf*

Just goes to show, even the most polite of men can turn into ravenous beasts once in a while.

And other innuendoes.

too true, Cat
:clap: ;)

I'm glad that J.K. Rowling chose to make Lupin's personality so unusual for a werewolf, or at least the stereotypical werewolf that appears in most fiction. The whole irony of the situation makes him so much more interesting, and the vivid contrast between his human and werewolf personalities adds color and depth to his character. It would have been pretty disappointing if she had chosen not to stray from the violent nature of a typical werewolf and make Remus the wonderfully charming person he is.

I think Lupin's mild personality despite his lycanthropy is all part of the 'our choices make us who we are' theme that JKR is stressing so vehemently.

Good thinking! I have always wondered why Remus was on the train and that makes total sence! Everyone was being rather protective of Harry at the time because of the crazy mass murderer that was supposedly after him, so it would make perfect sence for Dumbldore to have wanted somone on the train just in case somthing happened. But why would he have chosen Remus (of all people) to do that? And isn't it a tad... ironic that Harry and co. just happned to pick the same compartment Remus was in? And if that is in fact why he was on board, shouldn't he have at least made a little effort to stay awake?

What if Lupin was just pretending to be asleep? :D That's how I always looked at it, anyway.

What if Lupin was just pretending to be asleep? :D That's how I always looked at it, anyway.

Could be, but I think DD had at least an idea that Sirius might not be guilty, or at least would not really be a threat to Harry. After all, he accepted Sirius's story almost right away. So I don't think Lupin was there to protect Harry, maybe he isn't allowed to get an Apparating license because he's a werewolf or something. Why was Lupin on the train?

Could be, but I think DD had at least an idea that Sirius might not be guilty, or at least would not really be a threat to Harry.

I don't agree. I don't think there was any way of knowing. But there were considerable enough holes in the standard story of the events for Sirius' version to be believable.

maybe he isn't allowed to get an Apparating license because he's a werewolf

Good theory we all know how prejudice most wizards are about halfbreeds.
I don't think Lupin was asleep on the train, probably he felt any student sharing a compartment with him (a teacher) would feel a little uncomfortable and thought it would be best to pretend. Probably when he heard who was sharing the compartment, curiosity got a hold of him, and he decided to listen in.

I think he was on the train to protect Harry, maybe from Sirius, or maybe someone (DD) knew the Dementors presence would affect Harry this much or that they may have a hidden agenda, that's why Lupin went to *speak to the driver -send an owl* to comunicate what had happened to Dumbledore.

Good theory we all know how prejudice most wizards are about halfbreeds.

Yes, werewolves would be popping into your sick grandmother's house for tea.

Actually, I think it's possible that Professor Lupin can Apparate. I think it's fair to say that it would be more convenient to have a nap on the train than to lie in at home, or to arrive early then sleep at the castle. You'd be woken up, for one. If not by a Dementor, then by a helpful student.

I think it's likely, though, that it was intended he should be on the train to be of assitance in the probability of nosy Azkaban guards. He was the DATDA teacher, after all.

I don't see why he wouldn't have been genuinely dozing, though.

I think it's possible he was in a partial state of sleep, not completely out, though. He was also probably on board to assist, as Cat said, in case the dementors decided to pop in for a visit, and it was probably the most conveniant way for him to arrive. I'm not too sure about the protecting Harry from Sirius deal. I mean wouldn't Dumbledore know that it'd be a tad painful, to say the least, for Lupin to fight his "former" best friend to protect his other late best friend's son. But then again, Lupin probably would probably do what he was supposed to, in the end. I've always thought it odd that Dumbledore hired Lupin the same year as when Sirius escaped Azkaban. And the the evidence that Dumbledore provided, was it for or against Sirius?

I wonder, nightingale. But when did he give the evidence? According to Sirius, he wasn't graced with a trial. Perhaps he testified for the record?

But then again, Lupin probably would probably do what he was supposed to, in the end. I've always thought it odd that Dumbledore hired Lupin the same year as when Sirius escaped Azkaban.

I found that odd too, and so did Snape, it seems :D Coincidence? I don't really think so.

If JKR were to write an 8th book, everyone would simply ADORE a book just full of short stories about the Marauders.

Oh, I'd love that so much! I was so happy when we got to see the school age marauders in OotP. I do hope that we'll se more of them in book 6 and 7. ^_^

maybe he isn't allowed to get an Apparating license because he's a werewolf or something. Why was Lupin on the train?

Hey, that makes sense!

I've always thought it odd that Dumbledore hired Lupin the same year as when Sirius escaped Azkaban.

Ooh, another great observation! Why didn't I think of these things?


And speaking of werewolf books, does anyone know of any other fiction books with cool werewolf characters? Someone reccomended one to me once, but I forgot what book it was.... one of the main characters was a female werewolf though. Maybe I'll do a search for werewolf books...

I wonder, nightingale. But when did he give the evidence? According to Sirius, he wasn't graced with a trial. Perhaps he testified for the record?

Yes, Sirius did say that he didn't have a trial, and Dumbledore said he provided evidence for the case. This has caused some debate, however, I'm guessing that he didn't have a trial, and, as you said, Dumbledore just testified for the record.

And speaking of werewolf books, does anyone know of any other fiction books with cool werewolf characters? Someone reccomended one to me once, but I forgot what book it was.... one of the main characters was a female werewolf though. Maybe I'll do a search for werewolf books...

My sister read something once, I think it was called Blood and Chocolate. I think she enjoyed it.

Hello there. I'm new over here. I like Lupin alot but with my limited time I only read the Snape thread (please don't kill me!)

Anyway, forgive me if you've all mulled this over before, but I had a thought a while bad that just refuses to go away...

I've ben thinking that Lupin didn't go to Hogwart's until the third year.

Lupin tells Harry that the tree was planted when he arrived at Hogwarts (he doesn't say 'in the first year').

JKR tells us that only after DD became headmaster was Lupin allowed to go to school. This seems to mean that another headmaster had specifically refused him entrance but then that headmaster left and Lupin was admitted.

The marauders found out in the third year. Well if I was sharing a room with somebody and for three years they were missing on the full moon I think I'd notice. So, I'm thinking it didn't take them that long (they're not stupid after all).

Snape didn't know (apparently) until the 6th year. Surely he would have worked it out after 6 years. But if he'd only had 3 years and maybe didn't share classes with him much after they chose options in the 3rd year he may not have seen the pattern. It makes more sense. Snape isn't stupid either. Perhaps nobody else noticed because Lupin was quiet, but Snape noticed the Marauders a lot and became obsessed with finding out where Lupin went in the 6th year. Perhaps it was only then (when they shared a lot of NEWT's classes) that he started to wonder where he was going all the time.

And if Snape DID know before the Shrieking Shack incident, surely he would have told somebody, which it seems he didn't. The people he would have told were future Death Eaters and there's no evidence they know even now.

SO, is this something you've talked about before?

I've ben thinking that Lupin didn't go to Hogwart's until the third year.

Lupin tells Harry that the tree was planted when he arrived at Hogwarts (he doesn't say 'in the first year').

JKR tells us that only after DD became headmaster was Lupin allowed to go to school. This seems to mean that another headmaster had specifically refused him entrance but then that headmaster left and Lupin was admitted.

The marauders found out in the third year. Well if I was sharing a room with somebody and for three years they were missing on the full moon I think I'd notice. So, I'm thinking it didn't take them that long (they're not stupid after all).

Snape didn't know (apparently) until the 6th year. Surely he would have worked it out after 6 years. But if he'd only had 3 years and maybe didn't share classes with him much after they chose options in the 3rd year he may not have seen the pattern. It makes more sense. Snape isn't stupid either. Perhaps nobody else noticed because Lupin was quiet, but Snape noticed the Marauders a lot and became obsessed with finding out where Lupin went in the 6th year. Perhaps it was only then (when they shared a lot of NEWT's classes) that he started to wonder where he was going all the time.


Crazytaxi, I like the theory, and I haven't seen it before. However, the problem I see with it is, how would Remus have made up for the first two years? Was DD tutoring him? I would think he would have had to take an exam of some sort to prove that he could jump in with the third years. Other than that detail, it works.

I've never thought it was a coincidence that Remus and Sirius surfaced at the same time. I don't know what to make of it, but very little seems to happen by sheer luck in the magic world. I also can't believe that DD didn't know of Sirius's innocence. DD knows so much more than meets the eye, and he told Harry at the end of OotP that he watches him more closely than Harry realizes. DD isn't telling us why he trusts Snape so, so just because DD didn't say that he knew all along that Sirius had been framed, doesn't mean he wasn't in the know. Heck, I wouldn't even be surprised if DD knew that Scabbers was Peter Petigrew.

JKR tells us that only after DD became headmaster was Lupin allowed to go to school. This seems to mean that another headmaster had specifically refused him entrance but then that headmaster left and Lupin was admitted.


I think he meant that no other Headmaster would have allowed him entry. It's possible that he only started school in his third year, but it's also entirely possible that this isn't the case. People can keep a secret for a very long time. They would have known something was amiss without knowing exactly what it was. Who suspects their friend of being a werewolf? (Well, I do occasionally, but that's beside the point).

*

I don't think it was odd that Dumbledore hired Lupin that year. I mean, I know it was for the sake of narrative causality, but I also think it makes sense. Black was supposed to have killed (or aided the killing of) all of Professor Lupin's closest friends. The castle was the safest place for Lupin to be if Black decided to kill him too. It also meant that Lupin was close by in case he wanted to tell Dumbledore.... anything at all. Any little secrets that he might, for some reason, be holding.

I do not think that DD knew that Scabbers was Pettigrew.. Since then he would have been able to prove Sirius innocense a long time ago..

I posted my theory over at the Snape thread as well and somebody pointed out that Lupin said his friends took 'three years' to work it out. It still seems strange that they took that long though (even if you don't generally think your best friend is a werewolf :) ).


If you weren't in the same house you might not have that many classes together and many of the full moons would be holidays and weekends. But if you were sharing a dorm I can't think you'd not notice the pattern. Let's face it, men seem to think they're awfully good at spotting PMT. :)

Anyway, I guess he probably did arrive in the first year. I suspect you guys are more up on Lupin, sp you'll notice more discrepancies in my arguement. Although I like the fellow I don't re-read everything he's in like I do with Snape. :)

I think Lupin's main protection would have been the image most people had of werewolf's. If they're seen as ravening monsters, then Lupin not being anything close to a ravening monster the rest of the time would have protected him. Full moon's being considered a magical time, perhaps he had excuses about a series of special projects as well.

Lupin now is the only connection Harry has with his family, nothing bad can happen to him!
I'd be horrible for Harry, and unfair for the reader, hey... we already lost Sirius...

If you weren't in the same house you might not have that many classes together and many of the full moons would be holidays and weekends. But if you were sharing a dorm I can't think you'd not notice the pattern. Let's face it, men seem to think they're awfully good at spotting PMT. :)


Even if you noticed that he vanished regularly every month , even if you paid attention in astronomy and noticed that this was always on the full moon (this might take some time to work out), you might not immediately associate it with werewolves. It's easy to say afterwards how obvious it was, but you must imagine that the boys didn't know what clues they were supposed to be looking for. It was their third year... imagine that the curriculum hasn't changed in some time... it was Harry's third year when he learned about werewolves in Defence Against the Dark Arts.

Odd, I've read a fanfic about Remus starting in his third year. It was very good :D Anyway, I like the idea of him starting when he's 13. It makes a lot of sense, especially if Remus wasn't in Gryffindor (although I still think he was). However, can somone supply a quote saying that MWPP found out in their third year? I don't seem to remember this at all...

It's easy to say afterwards how obvious it was, but you must imagine that the boys didn't know what clues they were supposed to be looking for. It was their third year... imagine that the curriculum hasn't changed in some time... it was Harry's third year when he learned about werewolves in Defence Against the Dark Arts.

Good point, Cat. Plus, I imagine that just as Snape ane DD covered for Remus as a teacher, there were people covering for him as a student.

I also like your point that DD might have arranged for Remus to be at Hogwarts in case Sirius came after him. Plus, who better to spot Sirius? Another coincidence explained away...

Great point Cat. I agree with Gnomida. It would be horrible to lose him. JK, I beg you! Please spare Lupin!

Odd, I've read a fanfic about Remus starting in his third year. It was very good :D Anyway, I like the idea of him starting when he's 13. It makes a lot of sense, especially if Remus wasn't in Gryffindor (although I still think he was). However, can somone supply a quote saying that MWPP found out in their third year? I don't seem to remember this at all...

I don't recall anything about it mentioning them being in their third year.

It does say that it took them the best part of three years to learn to become Animagi and they finally mastered this in their Fifth year. So this leads us to believe that they started when they were in Second year.

I don't recall anything about it mentioning them being in their third year.

It does say that it took them the best part of three years to learn to become Animagi and they finally mastered this in their Fifth year. So this leads us to believe that they started when they were in Second year.

That's what I thought. Can someone please give a quote for this?

"Yes, indeed," said Lupin. "It took them the best part of three years to work out how to do it. Your father and Sirius here were the cleverest students in the school, and lucky they were, because the Animagus transformation can go horribly wrong -- one reason the Ministry keeps a close watch on those attempting to do it. Peter needed all the help he could get from James and Sirius. Finally, in our fifth year, they managed it. They could each turn into a different animal at will."

From this we can say that it took Peter three years to learn it and Sirius & James less time; how much though is unknown.

Cat,(post #2 on the thread) can I please join you for the cod attack?I've always seen Remus Lupin as the most passive among the Marauders-not meaning that he lacks courage,but that he's the one who'd be most likely to think with his head and weigh out the pros and cons before acting on impulse.And he's also the one who seems to be best at defusing tensions...sorry if this got mentioned before,my browser is just really slow so I can't go through all the pages before posting.It's also interesting that mild-mannered Lupin is the one who (before the discovery of wolfsbane potion) turned into a raging beast once a month.[COLOR=DarkRed]

Wasn't it in the albert-hall-interview where JK said that Lupin's biggest flaw was that he wanted to be liked.... you can see it in the pensive-scene : Lupin a Prefect doesn't act when his two buddies are beating up Snape... in a way <and don't shoot me please> he's like Peter.... they both want to "hang" with friends.... only differnce is that remus is powerful enough himself.....

I love Lupin. If either Harry or Lupin dies, I'm joining the Squad.

JKs description of Lupin worries me though. Seems to be setting him up for a fall. Describing a weakness to fans smacks of putting Moony in some kind of confrontation with his weakness. I just hope no one dies because of it.

I think he will be a very good father/brother figure to Harry. I am also wishing that neither Harry nor Lupin dies at the end. I would also like to see Sirius leave something for Lupin in his will (there's a thread somewhere that discusses this). He sure deserves it.

I don't see any reason for Lupin to have started school later than the others. What he actually said was, "It SEEMED impossible that I would be able to come to Hogwarts", not "It WAS impossible for me to go to Hogwarts until Dumbledore became Headmaster". So I presume that DD became Head in time to let Remus in at age 11.

Here's what he said about his friends finding out: " My three friends could hardly fail to notice that I disappeared once a month. I made up all sorts of stories...But of course, they, like you, Hermione, worked out the truth...They became Animagi. It took them the best part of three years to work out how to do it...Finally, in our fifth year, they managed it."

So James, Sirius and Peter worked out what was up in their second year, or at the end of the first. Like Cat said, they didn't know what signs they were looking for. A month can be a long time at school, and some of the full moons might have occurred during holidays when the others weren't around.

Here's how I think they might have found out:
First term: Remus disappears, telling his friends his mum's ill. They notice that he looks ill and tired afterwards, but don't push the issue.
Second term: Friends notice that Remus's siblings don't disappear. He makes up some evasive answer and they become suspicious.
Second/Third term: One of friends lands in hospital wing when Remus comes in to recover from transformation. They realise that he's the one who's ill, but he won't say what's wrong.
Near end of year: The friends study the full moon in astronomy class. They realise that it's a month since Remus last disappeared. Some library research confirms their suspicions.

Cat,(post #2 on the thread) can I please join you for the cod attack?

I don't think it's up to me anymore. People have mostly forgotten that it was I started it all. You'd have to ask a member :D.

Puffskein, Lupin doesn't have any siblings that we know of. But it could still become apparant that he wasn't visiting family.

It's also interesting that mild-mannered Lupin is the one who (before the discovery of wolfsbane potion) turned into a raging beast once a month

Good point. I think it's interesting, because it shows that Lupin is sort of like Jykell and Hyde - he has two personalities, both of which are the exact opposite of each other.

Second term: Friends notice that Remus's siblings don't disappear. He makes up some
evasive answer and they become suspicious.

As Cat said, we don't actually know if Remus had any siblings, although it is plausible. Your theory could still work, though.

I ought to clear up that the siblings I mentioned are hypothetical. I put them in because I wrote a fanfic where Remus had an older brother.

On the Jekyll/Hyde point, I think it's possible that Lupin is nice and mild precisely because he is compensating for his vicious werewolf side. In my fanfic I imagined that he was something of a brat until he was bitten, and then became a smaller version of the kind soul we know today.

On the Jekyll/Hyde point, I think it's possible that Lupin is nice and mild precisely because he is compensating for his vicious werewolf side.

I don't think he'd be aware that he's compensating for anything anything, though. I mean, I don't think he's consciously faking it. But it's certainly possible that he's calm and pleasant because he's had a lot of experience at being otherwise with large, sharp teeth.

I don't think he'd be aware that he's compensating for anything anything, though. I mean, I don't think he's consciously faking it. But it's certainly possible that he's calm and pleasant because he's had a lot of experience at being otherwise with large, sharp teeth.

I think that it's a mixture of being like that by nature; and wanting - well maybe not to compensate it, but to learn how to control himself.

Anyway this is something I thought of in the AASS thread; do you guys think Lupin might have been an occlumentist/legilimist/whatever they're called? Because he was half-suspected of being the spy before Voldemort left; and you might think that Dumbledore would have used his abilities to check, which he obviously didn't.

As far as I tell; there are couple of reasons for this.
- Lupin is an occlumentist
- Dumbledore didn't think if it
- Dumbledore wasn't a legilimist then
- It doesn't work against werewolves.

I'm sure that anybody can practice Occulemency against a Legilimens. I'm not so sure, but I think that anybody can practise Legilimency. I don't think it's something to be, like an Animagus, it's just something that you do. Whether or not you can do it well is another matter.

A lot of people try to find a reason or excuse for Sirius to have suspected his friend of treachery. But I think it's possible that it's very simple. Sirius was clever enough to realise that one in their midst was a spy. He wasn't clever enough to realise that it could be Peter. He had no reason to believe James was spyng on himself, so that leaves Lupin.

Oh, and I don't think Lupin has to learn how to 'control himself'. Not moreso than any other sane person. He's only the wolf when he looks like the wolf. But I think a personality like his could be a subconcious apology for the wolf.

I agree with Cat. Lupin probably doesn't feel that he needs to learn to control his wolf self, but his gentle, quiet nature could be a subconscious attempt to make himself less wolf-like. But I think he'd still act that way, even if he wasn't a werewolf. He's just that kind of person. :)

Anyway this is something I thought of in the AASS thread; do you guys think Lupin might have been an occlumentist/legilimist/whatever they're called? Because he was half-suspected of being the spy before Voldemort left; and you might think that Dumbledore would have used his abilities to check, which he obviously didn't.

I doubt Lupin is an Occulmens/Legilimens. As Cat said, Sirius was smart enough to figure out that one of their friends had turned traitor; he just didn't guess that that person was Peter. And that just left one person: Remus. It was a dark time back then, when you couldn't tell who was good and who was bad. Sirius might have thought that LV had offered Lupin wealth or status or something if he became a spy.

I think it's likely that somebody already suggested this (and I wasn't paying attention) but I've thought of a possibility for the mysterious 'J' in Remus J. Lupin.

If it's something concealed and clever, it might be Janus. Not as in Thickey, but as in Janus Bifrons, the two-faced Roman god of gateways. I'm not saying Remus is two-faced, but he certainly has two sides to him. Janus' two faces are also sometimes said to represent the sun and the moon.

Remus Janus Lupin. Sounds terrible.

I like it Cat, but it does sound horrid :) I think the J is either a red herring or a meaningless initial (maybe JKR's own first initial?) It could be a clue, but I don't really see anything vital about Lupin that we could need to know by now.

Oh, and I don't think Lupin has to learn how to 'control himself'. Not moreso than any other sane person. He's only the wolf when he looks like the wolf. But I think a personality like his could be a subconcious apology for the wolf.

That's what I was trying to say. That idea is supported by Fantastic Beasts: "when there is no full moon, the werewolf is as harmless as any other human."

I have a theory that most werewolves can't convince anyone that they're still human beings and so give up trying to prove it and become embittered and dangerous. Lupin has plenty of people who know he's a human being, but he acts mild because he feels (consciously or not) that if he starts being nasty, people will think he's just a typical werewolf.

If it's something concealed and clever, it might be Janus. Not as in Thickey, but as in Janus Bifrons, the two-faced Roman god of gateways. I'm not saying Remus is two-faced, but he certainly has two sides to him. Janus' two faces are also sometimes said to represent the sun and the moon.

I like the idea! But personally, I dont think his middle initial is particually important. How would we find it out anyway? (Unless he needs to go to court).

Oh, and I don't think Lupin has to learn how to 'control himself'. Not more so than any other sane person. He's only the wolf when he looks like the wolf. But I think a personality like his could be a subconcious apology for the wolf.

A very good post. I agree that his personality could be a subconcious apology for the wolf, but I think being a werewolf has made him more accepting towards things, he understands some things just have to be. He also wants to show that werewolves are also simply normal people for most of the month, and that they arent some sort of freak.

About the Occulmency: Snape had two years between school and...teaching (if I worked it out right); and has had a further 16 years of teaching up to that point.
I believe that students would have been taught ABOUT O/L, but not have actually practised it. Since Snape was described as an "excellent" Occulemens, it gives the impression that he took it further than from school.
So I dont think that Lupin can do O/L. If everyone is taught it, then there isnt much normal people can hide. It would have meant that James, Peter, Lupin, Sirius, Snape, the Weasleys and Hagrid would have all been taught O/L too, and there is no evidence to support this.

Oh, I agree that what the 'J' stands for is unimportant. What's the point in only ever talking about important things? It's just fun to guess. Besides, people who write fan fiction might want to refer to the middle name at some point, so there's an idea for them to use.

Remus is my all time favorite harry Potter character. I have an obsession over him. All I can say is he better not die in any of the books or I will hunt down Jk and yeah....

Not to go all the way back to the begging of the thread but I have just seen this thread and want to answer to it.

Remus mots likely was cheerful at the end so harry would not be too misreable about Sirius. I am sure he is sad that his best Friend died (who woudn't be sad about Siruus dying. well exept...) .

Remus has always been calm like Dumbledore, save when he trired to kill Peter. I think he will become a big hero in the end along with the rest of the survivers and maybe clear the name of werewolves. Or clear alittle of it.

I've thought of a possibility for the mysterious 'J' in Remus J. Lupin.

If it's something concealed and clever, it might be Janus. Not as in Thickey, but as in Janus Bifrons, the two-faced Roman god of gateways.

Maybe it's like Homer J. Simpson, whose middle name turned out to be "Jay"... um, yeah. :blush:

Anyway, I was thinking that we should make a list of reasons we love Remus Lupin. It'd be fun! Should we start it here or in the quidditch pitch?

I'm new to this forum so please don't give me a hard time if you've already discussed this--
but does anyone else think the the man in the bed next to Arthur Weasley that was bitten by a werewolf, vould have been bitten by Remus himself? Could it be one of the reasons Lupin goes over to speak to him?

I'm new to this forum so please don't give me a hard time if you've already discussed this--
but does anyone else think the the man in the bed next to Arthur Weasley that was bitten by a werewolf, vould have been bitten by Remus himself? Could it be one of the reasons Lupin goes over to speak to him?

Highly doubtful. I think that now, since Remus is staying at Grimmauld Place, Snape brings him the Woflsbane Potion to drink, so Remus just stays in his room during the full moon. That's just what I think, anyway. :)

I'm new to this forum so please don't give me a hard time if you've already discussed this--
but does anyone else think the the man in the bed next to Arthur Weasley that was bitten by a werewolf, vould have been bitten by Remus himself? Could it be one of the reasons Lupin goes over to speak to him?
I really don't think so. Snape (however unwillingly) was probably making the Wolfsbane potion for him, so he'd be pretty much harmless as a wolf. I think he only went over because (apart from fleeing Mrs. Weasley!) he's just really kind. I mean, he might not even have known that the man had been bitten
And :welcome: to COS, by the way!!
I was thinking that we should make a list of reasons we love Remus Lupin. It'd be fun! Should we start it here or in the quidditch pitch?
Oh that's a great idea! I personally wouldn't mind it here, but it might fit better in the QP. I won't post in it , though, I'd fill the whole thing up with these: :love: :love: :love:

One thing I love about Remus is the fact he's a complete sweetheart, but you know, that's a given :D. He's noble. Noble is the best word I can think of to describe him.

One thing I love about Remus is the fact he's a complete sweetheart, but you know, that's a given :D. He's noble. Noble is the best word I can think of to describe him.

You said it. :clap: :love:

I could fill a whole book describing how sweet Remus is and how much he is a respectable and great all around person (werewolf :) )

I want to know, I was thinking of when Dung was asking Sirius about his cups being silver. Sirius said yes. So did Lupin drink from the silver cups or did he just have a butterbeer? I mean werewolves can't touch silver.

Remus is very quiet now after the deaths of all 3 of his great friends but when he is quiet he shows his love for them and for Harry. He can't cry over it or else it will give HP no hope. Remus is the only sort of fatherly figure, except DD, he has left and seeing Remus break down would maybe give HP a sign that everyone will die, there will be no happy ending to this. Remus my guess will protect HP from LV and not be killed but only badly injured that might make HP believe he is dead. He will do whatever it takes to protect HP.

One thing I love about Remus is the fact he's a complete sweetheart, but you know, that's a given :D. He's noble. Noble is the best word I can think of to describe him.

Exactly. But also, he doesn't make any heirs about his nobility- he does what he believes is just, without superciliousness or condensation to those who may disagree. Remus accepts people for who they are and judges them according to their own personality and abilities (eg: Snape, Harry).

I want to know, I was thinking of when Dung was asking Sirius about his cups being silver. Sirius said yes. So did Lupin drink from the silver cups or did he just have a butterbeer? I mean werewolves can't touch silver.
Werewolves can't touch silver? Neat, I didn't know. Well, that brings up something scarier than silver cups...:censored: Wormtail's silver hand! If it is in fact made of silver. But this has probably already been discussed before, so never mind me...

Remus is very quiet now after the deaths of all 3 of his great friends but when he is quiet he shows his love for them and for Harry.

Oh, I hate to be so nit-picky about this, but only two of Remus's friends have died, not 3. Wormtail is still alive.

Werewolves can't touch silver? Neat, I didn't know. Well, that brings up something scarier than silver cups... Wormtail's silver hand! If it is in fact made of silver. But this has probably already been discussed before, so never mind me...

Yes, this has been dicussed in many ways before. Most people believe that werewolves, in JKR's world, can only be harmed by silver through a silver bullet. So it would be OK for Lupin to have drunken from the silver goblets at Grimmauld Place.

Oh, I hate to be so nit-picky about this, but only two of Remus's friends have died, not 3. Wormtail is still alive.


I don't think Remus counts Wormtail as a friend any more. Plus, he might have been close to the Order members who died in the first war. (On the flip side, he might also be close to the Order members who are still around, so he's not all alone yet.) I'm sure he counted Lily as a friend too.

"Half my friends are dead.
I will make you new ones, said earth.
No, give them back as they were, instead
With faults and all, I cried."
- Derek Walcott, "Sea Canes"

Why do I love Lupin? Because he's a poppet and makes me feel warm inside nearly every time he speaks! I admire the way that he bears his crosses with such dignity and good humour. He's one of those people who have the wisdom to know what they can't change.

Great post, Puffskein! That's a lovely poem, wish I'd heard it before!. :tu:

And here are five reasons why I love Lupin:
Loyal: He sticks with his friends.
Understanding: He's never harsh, and also understands what he needs to do.
Pure: Not a trace of evil, nope!
Intelligent: He thinks things out before he does anything; he's very level-headed.
Noble: He's never selfish, he looks out for others, and does what's right.

:sigh: That was cheesy, I know...I'll try to come back later and make a more...Intelligent...post

I want to know, I was thinking of when Dung was asking Sirius about his cups being silver. Sirius said yes. So did Lupin drink from the silver cups or did he just have a butterbeer? I mean werewolves can't touch silver.

How do you know, have you ever met one?

I mean to say that there are no definitive facts aout werewolves (except for the turning into a wolf part) because they come from myth and fiction. The 'silver bullet' (it's generally a bullet and not just a touch that does the damage) thing originated with horror movies, or at least was popularized by them.

I'm not sure where the full moon thing comes from.

An ordinary bullet couldn't kill the werewolf because sometimes the werewolf is depicted as immortal, apart from this Achilles Heel. Professor Lupin is not immortal, and so you wouldn't need a silver bullet to kill him.

I think the chosen metal is silver because silver is known as the metal of the moon, whereas gold is the sun. This ties in with the idea of werewolves transforming on a full moon. I can't figure out the reasoning behind the 'moon' metal being the only the that can kill them - perhaps it's poetic irony.

Thanks Tirwen! Here's the whole poem:

Half my friends are dead.
I will make you new ones, said earth.
No, give them back as they were, instead
With faults and all, I cried.

Tonight I can snatch their talk
from the faint surf's drone
through the canes, but I cannot walk

on the moonlit roads of ocean
down that white road alone
or float with the dreaming motion
of owls leaving earth's load.

O earth, the number of friends you keep
exceeds those left to be loved.

The sea canes by the cliff flash green and silver
they were the seraph lances of my faith
but out of what is lost grows something stronger

that has the rational radiance of stone
enduring moonlight, further than despair,
strong as the wind, that through dividing canes

brings those we love before us, as they were,
with faults and all, not nobler, just there.

Ah, that almost brought tears to my eyes, Tirwen! :sad: *sniff* Poor Remus...

I just thought I'd correct myself. I'm not so sure that the 'silver' thing did originate in a horror movie.

I've been reading references of silver used as apotropaic objects against werewolves and vampires and other creatures of the night.

Anyway...

Something completely different...

Why, in fan fiction, do writers tend to show James, Sirius and Remus as a threesome of best friends? All four of them were friends, if you don't conveniently forget Peter, but it was James and Sirius that were best friends to each other. They were the terrible twosome. Remus was probably closer to Peter... I could see why the nervous, podgy one and the weird sickly one would want to stick together.

I know what Peter turned out to be. But that doesn't mean he couldn't have been a fairly nice boy in school. There's nothing wrong with using him in pre-Harry writing!

Sorry, I've been reading fan fiction. It goes to my head.

Oh thank you so much, Puffskein! That was so beautiful. It fits Lupin perfectly. It brought tears to my eyes, too, Hannah. And by the way, the quote from Dumbledore in your sig is so poignant and painful, and very well-placed in the corner like that. :tu: (I said so in the Sigs you Like thread, but I guess you didn't read that, :lol: )
Anyway...You have a good point, Cat. A lot of fanfics (not mine, I hope...:scared: )while well-written, leave Peter out completely. He was as much of a Marauder as Remus. I think Peter and Remus were probably (at least slightly) left out of James's and Sirius's fun. People have an understandable dislike of Peter and don't want him to be "part of the gang", while liking the other three and wanting them to be a threesome of best friends. But I don't exactly picture Remus and Peter as being especially close friends with each other. They could have been, though I sort of imagine them both being left out but not being especially close to each other.

I've just read PoA again (I'm going through everything again before I reread OotP one more time.) and I've fallen in love with Moony all over again. :love:

He is really such a sweetheart. I hope he gets more airtime in the next books. What with Sirius gone and him being the last good Marauder around, I hope he develops an even closer relationship with Harry.

fawkes5, I reread PoA (for 27th time) yesterday too and realized how I really missed Lupin. I mean, he didn't have very big role in OotP and I forgot how I used to love him. He has always been the best Hogwarts teacher for me. I'm so glad I refreshed my memory.

Oh thank you so much, Puffskein! That was so beautiful. It fits Lupin perfectly. It brought tears to my eyes, too, Hannah. And by the way, the quote from Dumbledore in your sig is so poignant and painful, and very well-placed in the corner like that. :tu: (I said so in the Sigs you Like thread, but I guess you didn't read that, :lol: )

Thanks, I'm glad someone likes my sig! :D I don't read the Signatures You Like thread, so I'm sorry I didn't notice the compliment!

Anyway...You have a good point, Cat. A lot of fanfics (not mine, I hope...:scared: )while well-written, leave Peter out completely. He was as much of a Marauder as Remus. I think Peter and Remus were probably (at least slightly) left out of James's and Sirius's fun. People have an understandable dislike of Peter and don't want him to be "part of the gang", while liking the other three and wanting them to be a threesome of best friends. But I don't exactly picture Remus and Peter as being especially close friends with each other. They could have been, though I sort of imagine them both being left out but not being especially close to each other.

Yes, this is something that bugs me a lot also. If I'm reading a fan-fic where Peter is made out to be some evil, twisted, moronic Slytherin, then I usually am tempted to flame the author (that sounds bad, I know :scared: ) I agree with the idea of Peter and Remus being "close," because, as shown in the Pensieve scene, they didn't actively participate in James and Sirius's pranks.

How do you know, have you ever met one?

I mean to say that there are no definitive facts aout werewolves (except for the turning into a wolf part) because they come from myth and fiction. The 'silver bullet' (it's generally a bullet and not just a touch that does the damage) thing originated with horror movies, or at least was popularized by them.

I'm not sure where the full moon thing comes from.

An ordinary bullet couldn't kill the werewolf because sometimes the werewolf is depicted as immortal, apart from this Achilles Heel. Professor Lupin is not immortal, and so you wouldn't need a silver bullet to kill him.

I think the chosen metal is silver because silver is known as the metal of the moon, whereas gold is the sun. This ties in with the idea of werewolves transforming on a full moon. I can't figure out the reasoning behind the 'moon' metal being the only the that can kill them - perhaps it's poetic irony.


Tell you the truth the myth of Lycanthropes come from a hallucination from a fungus on wheat. People believed they became a monster or as we know it as a werewolf. This also happened around the globe but they were different types of half animals. Hyenas and tigers for example.
I don't like any of the horror movies that star werewolves. They look stupid.
I believed Lupin to look like a beautiful large gray wolf. Not some ugly two legged or four legged determined looking dog mixed with a wolverine.
But since there is no real information on the subject isn’t it still open?
Since there is no proof it can still be a possibility that werewolves cannot touch silver. :)

fawkes5, I reread PoA (for 27th time) yesterday too and realized how I really missed Lupin. I mean, he didn't have very big role in OotP and I forgot how I used to love him. He has always been the best Hogwarts teacher for me. I'm so glad I refreshed my memory.
Yes, Lupin is such a sweetheart. :love: :love: I really do hope he gets a bigger role in the next books.

Tell you the truth the myth of Lycanthropes come from a hallucination from a fungus on wheat. People believed they became a monster or as we know it as a werewolf. This also happened around the globe but they were different types of half animals. Hyenas and tigers for example.
I don't like any of the horror movies that star werewolves. They look stupid.
I believed Lupin to look like a beautiful large gray wolf. Not some ugly two legged or four legged determined looking dog mixed with a wolverine.
But since there is no real information on the subject isn’t it still open?
Since there is no proof it can still be a possibility that werewolves cannot touch silver. :)

Well, Lupin touched the goblets in the Black mansion. I see no reason why he would bring his own, he'd just refuse a drink. And with all the silver and things - I'd go on a whim and say the the Blacks were very proud. That means all silver goblets.

I don't imagine Lupin to look like a beautiful wolf. The wolf part of him is monstrous. It probably hasn't got the sleekness and elegance of a real wolf. I imagine it to be bigger, bulkier and madder than a real wolf. Not White Fang but 'My word, what big teeth you have!'.

Ergot poisoning wasn't the only origin for the belief in werewolves. There were gods with animal heads, a belief in magic, shamanism and demons, various insanities, other drugs and poisons (I think Belladonna was once used to cause werewolf hallucinations but I'm not sure), deformities and illnesses, famines that caused people to turn to cannibalism, famines that caused nearby wolves to eat people and the Biblical idea that we are God's flock of sheep (prone to be chased by the vicious wolf!). Amongst other things. The human imagination can be a dangerous thing.

I'm wondering if Harry will become closer to Lupin now that he knows what it's like to have a savage creature with big teeth rise up inside you (the snake). Of course it's not quite the same but JKR might have been subtly pointing out the parallel by putting a werewolf in the hospital.

:whistle: This thread hasn't been posted in for a while now...
I'm wondering if Harry will become closer to Lupin now that he knows what it's like to have a savage creature with big teeth rise up inside you (the snake). Of course it's not quite the same but JKR might have been subtly pointing out the parallel by putting a werewolf in the hospital.
I never really thought of it that way. I hope it'll occur to Harry! They're two rather different ways of invountarily becoming a monster, but it's an interesting parallel. Lupin's problem is of course more physical and Harry's is more mental, but it'd be neat to see the two of them discussing what it felt like.

I'm wondering if Harry will become closer to Lupin now that he knows what it's like to have a savage creature with big teeth rise up inside you (the snake). Of course it's not quite the same but JKR might have been subtly pointing out the parallel by putting a werewolf in the hospital.

It's certainly an idea! I felt as though J. K. Rowling was repeatedly trying to remind us that he is a werewolf, but that might not be the case.

I hope we've not seen the last of the wolf aspect...

I always thougth that Harry was closer to Lupin than he was to Black anyway. But then, he was willing to go live with Black after meeting him only one time. Lupin was there for Harry in ways that Black was not. Lupin taught Harry important things he needed to learn. I think that now that Black is gone, there will be a stronger bond between Harry and Lupin, beings as Lupin is Harry's last known (at this time) connection to his parents. I don't know if the bond would be stronger due to them both knowing what it was like to have a feriousious beast within though.

I felt as though J. K. Rowling was repeatedly trying to remind us that he is a werewolf, but that might not be the case.

I thought that too. Whereas in GOF, Lupin was mentioned a few times and werewolves were mentioned a few times, but the connection was not made explicit. That seemed interesting to me because in most of that book, JKR seemed almost paranoid that everyone should know what was going on without having read the others.

If Harry is going to become closer to Lupin because of the monster issue, he might need a bit of a kick up the backside to remember it, since he forgot about Ginny being possessed. In fact, he was so wrapped up with Sirius in OOTP that he barely noticed that Lupin cares for him just as much (until the very end).

If Harry is going to become closer to Lupin because of the monster issue, he might need a bit of a kick up the backside to remember it, since he forgot about Ginny being possessed. In fact, he was so wrapped up with Sirius in OOTP that he barely noticed that Lupin cares for him just as much (until the very end).

Yeah, Harry seems to be a little self-centered. I know that he's the star of the book, and I'd get a little angry if I was in his situation, but he seems to not notice that anyone else cares about him.... (although this is probably for a whole different thread)

and Windstar, I thought it was kind of odd too that in POA Harry is willing to live with Sirius after just meeting him, and suddenly likes him more than Lupin, who he's known the entire year. Maybe it was the fact that Sirius was best friends with his dad? Harry really seems to want James to be alive. (kind of like Sirius does.... or did. :sad: ) I think that Lupin is more realistic, and realizes that when people die, well, they're dead. (um, that sounded kind of harsh - I didn't mean it to be! Lupin's really a compassionate person! I mean that he doesn't wallow in the past. Or something like that. :shrug: )

um, yes, I will return to the thread when my brain is no longer mush....

I think that Harry grew more attached to Sirius because Sirius was, in some way, family to him. Family is what Harry wants most of all... it's what he saw in the Mirror of Erised.

Besides, however nice Lupin was to him, he was still a teacher. Teachers tend to be a bit beyond your friendship when you're a young student.

I think that Harry grew more attached to Sirius because Sirius was, in some way, family to him. Family is what Harry wants most of all... it's what he saw in the Mirror of Erised.

Besides, however nice Lupin was to him, he was still a teacher. Teachers tend to be a bit beyond your friendship when you're a young student.

Could anyone tell me, how Harry calls Lupin and Moody now, when they are not his teachers? He said "professor" at Privet Drive, but Moody didn't like it, and Lupin didn't react.

I agree that it will be hard for Harry to change his will for Lupin. He was his teacher, but he was also one of the best friends of his father. I think they'll become closer in next two books.

Could anyone tell me, how Harry calls Lupin and Moody now, when they are not his teachers? He said "professor" at Privet Drive, but Moody didn't like it, and Lupin didn't react.

Harry calls Remus by his last name, Lupin, because the name stuck from when he was the DADA teacher. I don't think that will ever change.

Besides, however nice Lupin was to him, he was still a teacher. Teachers tend to be a bit beyond your friendship when you're a young student.

He wasn't a teacher in OOTP. He gave Harry a Christmas present (jointly), clapped him on the shoulder, gave him advice and showed lots of concern, and Harry barely acknowledged all that. When Harry popped up in the fire after looking in the pensieve, all he could think of was talking to Sirius - in spite of the fact that Lupin was also Harry's father's friend and was also present in the Pensieve scene. If I was Lupin, I'd have been pretty annoyed at that.

At the end of the book, Harry realised that Lupin is one of many people who care for him. It might be a while longer before he works out how much they have in common.

He wasn't a teacher in OOTP. He gave Harry a Christmas present (jointly), clapped him on the shoulder, gave him advice and showed lots of concern, and Harry barely acknowledged all that. When Harry popped up in the fire after looking in the pensieve, all he could think of was talking to Sirius - in spite of the fact that Lupin was also Harry's father's friend and was also present in the Pensieve scene. If I was Lupin, I'd have been pretty annoyed at that.

At the end of the book, Harry realised that Lupin is one of many people who care for him. It might be a while longer before he works out how much they have in common.


You bring up some excellent points. Harry hardly acknowledges anything at the right time. However, the people whom deserve feedback happen to know that he cares about them in a way that they could get from no one else. Lupin is no different. In fact, he's the best. From the beginning Lupin has known his social and wizarding talent position...below James' and Sirius'. He has never claimed otherwise or been ashamed....he's just who he is.

I am very compassionate towards Lupin and extremely impressed. It isn't just anyone who can hang around two such commanding personalities as James and Lupin and retain their own identity....especially if your below their talent level in all aspects. Lupin could have easiliy been a Wormtail...a follower, but he isn't, and never will be.

Lupin has a complicated yet overwhelmingly simple disposition. He is not angered or rash like Sirius or Snape at times....he has a cool intellect and a logical approach to things that is rarely incompetant. A lot of people tend to underestimate him because he isn't loud and flashy such as Sirius and James....he is just as able except in a different way.

Such outstanding and uncommon qualities are going to come in handy. I am a fervent believer that it will be Lupin whom brings Harry out of his reverie. He holds all the keys to do so. He has the knowledge, patience, disposition, and the skills to make Harry acknowledge, understand, and take action. I am thoroughly interested to see how this plays out.

Brilliant points, Ecthelion! I find Remus to be one of the most, well, reliable characters to Harry. There are others who care deeply about Harry, but none quite like Lupin. I hope Harry will come to appreciate that more in the future.
And his personnality is truly a wonder! I admire the way he never seems to be really maddened by anything. Even when it came to killing Wormtail, he was incredibly cool and unruffled in his fury, if that makes sense.
It's interesting how he could have easily have turned into someone like Wormtail, or Wormtail into someone like him. They were in fairly similar situaitons, compared with the other two Marauders. It seemed that from early on, they took two different outlooks towards it. Wormtail took to "hero-worshipping" James and Sirius, being part of their pranks without having the guts to actively participate. Remus on the other hand, kept his self-respect and decided to keep Sirius and James as friends, but not idolizing them as Wormtail did.

Brilliant points, Ecthelion! I find Remus to be one of the most, well, reliable characters to Harry. There are others who care deeply about Harry, but none quite like Lupin. I hope Harry will come to appreciate that more in the future.
And his personnality is truly a wonder! I admire the way he never seems to be really maddened by anything. Even when it came to killing Wormtail, he was incredibly cool and unruffled in his fury, if that makes sense.
It's interesting how he could have easily have turned into someone like Wormtail, or Wormtail into someone like him. They were in fairly similar situaitons, compared with the other two Marauders. It seemed that from early on, they took two different outlooks towards it. Wormtail took to "hero-worshipping" James and Sirius, being part of their pranks without having the guts to actively participate. Remus on the other hand, kept his self-respect and decided to keep Sirius and James as friends, but not idolizing them as Wormtail did.

Hmmm... More of that "It is our choices, rather than our abilities..." stuff here, seems to me.

I always thougth that Harry was closer to Lupin than he was to Black anyway. But then, he was willing to go live with Black after meeting him only one time. Lupin was there for Harry in ways that Black was not. Lupin taught Harry important things he needed to learn. I think that now that Black is gone, there will be a stronger bond between Harry and Lupin, beings as Lupin is Harry's last known (at this time) connection to his parents.


Well, there could be several reasons for Harry latching onto Sirius instead of Lupin. Given his situation with the Dursley's I can understand Harry grabbing any opportunity to get out of there (even though we now know he can't). Harry had just heard that Sirius really was innocent, but he had also just heard that Lupin is a werewolf. It actually makes sense to live with Sirius:

1) Sirius was his Godfather, trusted by Harry's parents (obviously with good reason);
2) Sirius was friends with Lupin, so Lupin would have been around as well;
3) Sirius wouldn't turn into a monster and try to attack him once a month, thereby either leaving Harry alone or forcing him to uproot himself and go visit friends during the full moon.

I agree, however, that Harry has a hard time recognizing when/how much people care for him. I personally think that's from years of neglect and abuse with the Dursley's. Remember Harry's first visit to the Burrow? The thing that surprised him the most was how much everyone seemed to like him. Harry has been conditioned to be an emotional afterthought for other people, the perpetual emotional outsider; I think JKR is still pointing that out through Harry's general cluelessness about other people's feelings toward him.

I guess I didn't take into consideration that Lupin was Harry's teacher and the dynamics of a teacher/student relationship. I just figured that Lupin was so nice to Harry, that there should be more of a bond between them than between Harry and Sirius.

Even though he had just heard that Sirius was innocent, how can he totally believe the story with so little time to think it over?

I agree that Harry would have welcomed ANY opportunity to get out of the Dursleys. And Lupin did not offer, for whatever reasons, to have Harry come live with him. Reasons could include, the teacher/student thing, the werewolf thing, the fact that Sirius beat him to the offer ect.

Lupin was also a friend of James. And I do believe that Harry does want to believe that one day, his parent's will come back. I have to think that if Lupin had offered, Harry would have gone there also.

But it still seems strange to me that he would accept the offer from Black so quickly. Hopefully we WILL see a stronger relationship between Harry and Lupin in the next books. And maybe Lupin can convince Harry that his parents are really gone!

But then again, what if at the end of book 7, Harry wakes up in the cupboard under the stairs, only 11 years old, to find out that the whole last 7 years had just been a dream? Like on that Dallas tv show. Just a thought.....

If the entire series ended up being a dream, I would be very, very angry...

At this point, I agree with everyone who's said that Remus left his teacher-front and by book 5 was an adult friend. Puffskien had some very good examples. Something I half-noticed is that while Remus acted like an adult friend towards Harry, he wasn't pushing a relationship, and that could also partly explain for why they aren't close. They didn't have the automatic click that Sirius and Harry had - good points, Siriusly_Addicted, and the student/teacher relationship was in full swing, and there's the bond that forms when you save someome from having their soul sucked out twice - and neither tried to get close to the other. Harry's not good at making friends, and to me it seems that Lupin really respects privacy.

He wasn't a teacher in OOTP. He gave Harry a Christmas present (jointly), clapped him on the shoulder, gave him advice and showed lots of concern, and Harry barely acknowledged all that. When Harry popped up in the fire after looking in the pensieve, all he could think of was talking to Sirius - in spite of the fact that Lupin was also Harry's father's friend and was also present in the Pensieve scene. If I was Lupin, I'd have been pretty annoyed at that.

At the end of the book, Harry realised that Lupin is one of many people who care for him. It might be a while longer before he works out how much they have in common.

But during the book, he was still thinking of Lupin as 'Professor Lupin' and was more bothered about Sirius than anybody else in the world. That's why he's not on close pal terms with Lupin as of yet.

Gah, I can't believe I left that out of my post.

Remus no longer treats Harry like a student - but Harry still thinks of him as a teacher. Remus isn't pressing a different sort of relationship on him, so maybe they'll never develop one, but when Harry's ready for the change, Remus will be there. Remus isn't going to make Harry see him as anything else, or try to replace Sirius for Harry, or just jump into Harry's life. But he's more than a teacher now, I think.

Gah, I can't believe I left that out of my post.

Remus no longer treats Harry like a student - but Harry still thinks of him as a teacher. Remus isn't pressing a different sort of relationship on him, so maybe they'll never develop one, but when Harry's ready for the change, Remus will be there. Remus isn't going to make Harry see him as anything else, or try to replace Sirius for Harry, or just jump into Harry's life. But he's more than a teacher now, I think.

I agree that Lupin is more than a teacher now, and I think he and Harry will develop a closer relationship. It seems to me that JKR was setting that up at the end of OotP, which is one of the things I'm looking forward to seeing in Book 6. I just hope I get what I want. :agree:

Actually, I think that Harry's relationships with Remus and Sirius are reflective of, driven by, and consistent with their respective personalities.

Sirius - he's the blunt, confident, agressive (not necessarily in a bad way - maybe forceful is a better word), go-getter type. He wanted to be Harry's Godfather and have that relationship with him, he wanted to fulfill his promise to James and Lily, etc. He wanted to be a big part of Harry's life, and he said so. He's secure enough, in himself and in his relationship with James (which he somewhat projected onto Harry), not to hold back. Even 12 years in Azkaban didn't deter him from jumping right in. It was just his personality.

Remus - he was never fully secure in his relationships, even with his best friends. After five years of companionship, he still couldn't bring himself to censure them as part of his Prefect duties because he was afraid they'd drop him. He's the reticent, hang-back-and-let-them-come-to-me type. It's his life-long expectation of rejection, and it isn't easy to overcome after decades of fear and discrimination. He still has the notion that people view him as a monster. He seems to have the attitude that having friends is too good to be true. He also wants to be a part of Harry's life, and he'll be there for Harry as much as possible, but he won't push. He has, at least until now, let Harry set the boundaries.

Harry - as I said in my earlier post, Harry has been conditioned to see himself as an emotional afterthought for other people. After five years in the magical world, he still has a difficult time accepting the fact that people like him and care about him. He seemed (to me) genuinely surprised/stunned by Dumbledore's speech after they returned from the MoM. As far as just about any kind of relationship goes, Harry doesn't know how to make the first move - he waits for someone else to act, and then he responds. Look at the situation with Cho in OotP: she tracked him down to talk to him - he didn't pursue her; she kissed him - he point-blank told Hermione that he wouldn't have made that move himself; Cho had to all but invite him to Hogsmede, and that was such a broad hint that even Ron could have grasped it.

As for Harry's relationships with Sirius and Remus, they follow the same pattern. Remus liked, understood, and respected Harry, both for his abilities and for his character, and it showed. Remus believed in Harry enough to teach him the Patronus charm, but he also understood Harry's character well enough to know just what to say to Harry during the Bogart/Patronus lessons and after he confiscated the Marauder's Map. A few well-chosen words there brought Harry to his senses without getting his hackles up. Harry liked and respected Remus in return, and wanted to keep Remus' good opinion and not disappoint him. Harry was rather desperate to keep Remus at Hogwarts because he wanted to have Remus in his life, but it would simply not occur to him to pursue a friendship away from school and the teacher/student dynamic. Both of them are conditioned to hang back, so neither of them made a move to continue their relationship.

On the other hand, Sirius had just broken out of Azkaban with the expressed intention of committing murder to avenge James' death and to protect Harry's life. Except for his parents, no one has ever, as far as Harry knows, gone to that much effort for him or cared that much about what happened to him. Having someone who was so apparently devoted to him was a completely unique experience in Harry's life, and I think that's what he responded to when he accepted Sirius' sudden offer of a new home. I also think that's why he viewed Sirius as a parent-type more than he did Remus; Siruis' actions more closely resembled his parents' actions.

Still, I think Harry and Remus will realize how much they have in common and start building their friendship over the next two books.

I guess I didn't take into consideration that Lupin was Harry's teacher and the dynamics of a teacher/student relationship. I just figured that Lupin was so nice to Harry, that there should be more of a bond between them than between Harry and Sirius.

I agree that Harry would have welcomed ANY opportunity to get out of the Dursleys. And Lupin did not offer, for whatever reasons, to have Harry come live with him. Reasons could include, the teacher/student thing, the werewolf thing, the fact that Sirius beat him to the offer ect.

Lupin's love for Harry is tampered by necissity. Naturally, this is going to have consequences. What Lupin's heart yearns to give and tell Harry, his mind must hold back out of the knowledge that Harry must not know things at certain times. Believe me, he knows that with-holding such knowledge is slowing down their relationship....but he's only doing it out of love.

Even though he had just heard that Sirius was innocent, how can he totally believe the story with so little time to think it over?

I seriously think that Potter fans, as a whole, totally underestimate the scope of Harry's subconscience need for a parent. And in the situation you just gave, it provided Harry with a solution of one....Sirius...his Father's best friend. Everybody has a weak points, Harry included, it just happens to be that his parents are one of them. We have seen uncharacteristic behaviour out of the mentioning of them from Harry in the Mirror of the Erised, hearing Sirius and believing him quickly in PoA, the quidditch match in the fifth book, and many other instances. Somewhere or another he is going to find a stable fatherly figure....it is my hope and guess that it may be Lupin.

However, what about a motherly figure? Mrs. Weasley is an obvious choice but she really hasn't shown much compassion and sympathy needed for Harry. Any thoughts?


But then again, what if at the end of book 7, Harry wakes up in the cupboard under the stairs, only 11 years old, to find out that the whole last 7 years had just been a dream? Like on that Dallas tv show. Just a thought.....

We don't speak of scenarios like that :scared: !

Remus no longer treats Harry like a student - but Harry still thinks of him as a teacher. Remus isn't pressing a different sort of relationship on him, so maybe they'll never develop one, but when Harry's ready for the change, Remus will be there. Remus isn't going to make Harry see him as anything else, or try to replace Sirius for Harry, or just jump into Harry's life. But he's more than a teacher now, I think.

Well said Tarawyn. It is true Harry still views him as a teacher, I believe Lupin's figure to Harry has been slowly evolving to something else these last few books...It shall be thoroughly interesting to see how this plays out.

You know, I really admire Lupin.

In 24-hours he lost all his friends (James, Lily, Sirius and Peter). They were propably only people exept DD, who knew he was a werewolf and accepted him. He was all alone with his problem, lonely and unhappy. For twelve years he had no paid job, wife or friend. But when we met him, even if he was poor and looked sick, he became our favourite teacher.

Even when he was at school, he always was in the background - when teachers mentioned Marauders, they were speaking only about James, Sirius and Peter. No single word was said about Remus. But Snape hates him just because he was friend of J, S and P. It's not fair IMO.

I think, that this could be a part of the future plot - Harry will realise that he didn't notice how Lupin cares for him. He realised it in fact in the end of the Ootp.

I hope Moony will have bigger part in books 6&7.

In 24-hours he lost all his friends (James, Lily, Sirius and Peter). They were propably only people exept DD, who knew he was a werewolf and accepted him. He was all alone with his problem, lonely and unhappy. For twelve years he had no paid job, wife or friend. But when we met him, even if he was poor and looked sick, he became our favourite teacher.

Even when he was at school, he always was in the background - when teachers mentioned Marauders, they were speaking only about James, Sirius and Peter. No single word was said about Remus. But Snape hates him just because he was friend of J, S and P. It's not fair IMO.
Aah...I never knew I could love Lupin more...But thats a fantastic post Morgan LeFay!


Lupin has always been more of a teacher to Harry, even at the start of the third book: He showed himself to be generous, thoughtful and understanding, when he was a teacher, and afterwards.
It still bothers me that Harry still calls Lupin "Prof. Lupin", and yet calls Sirius, and even Mundungus, by their first names. It doesnt seem like Lupin is particually bothered about this, but I can imagine that he wants to become closer to Harry, just he restrains himself, and doesnt know how to go about it. He seems quite hesitant to do things, most likely because he is unsure of the consequences. He doesnt ask Sirius & James to stop bullying Snape, as he is afraid they may abandon him (seems quite insecure...).

Great points, Morgan LeFay and Hpmons.
He always seemed rather insecure about himself and others, never wanting to do something that might upset them when he disagrees with what they're doing. He seemed to fade somewhat into the background because of this.
I do hope Harry will stop calling him "Proffesor", though we can't really blame Harry for something he does in a habit. He should realize that Lupin could be more than just a former teacher to him. As Tarawyn said, Remus isn't the type to leap into Harry's life and try to play the role of James or Sirius, but he will be there for Harry when Harrt realizes for himself what kind of friend Remus could be to him.

You know, I really admire Lupin.

In 24-hours he lost all his friends (James, Lily, Sirius and Peter). They were propably only people exept DD, who knew he was a werewolf and accepted him. He was all alone with his problem, lonely and unhappy. For twelve years he had no paid job, wife or friend. But when we met him, even if he was poor and looked sick, he became our favourite teacher.

Even when he was at school, he always was in the background - when teachers mentioned Marauders, they were speaking only about James, Sirius and Peter. No single word was said about Remus. But Snape hates him just because he was friend of J, S and P. It's not fair IMO.

That's exactly what I was trying to say earlier. I am extremely impressed how Lupin turned out. Think of his company....James and Sirius. They were probably the smartest, quickest, and most popular duo that ever reached Hogwarts school. Naturally, they have very strong persuasive personalities. It is not just anyone who can maintain their own personality around such dynamic and colorful people such as James and Sirius. Look at Wormtail...it's disgusting yet Lupin could have easily taken the path that Wormtail took...yet he didn't.

Lupin's personality is undefinable, but undeniably distinct. This way of being sometimes confuses people. Because, they know Lupin has a personality like no other, yet find it hard to describe it to its full potential. That is a good thing. Lupin is himself soft-spoken, and it does no harm for his description to be as well.

I just finished the previous 28 pages, quite a long reading!

Hello there. I'm new over here. I like Lupin alot but with my limited time I only read the Snape thread (please don't kill me!)

Anyway, forgive me if you've all mulled this over before, but I had a thought a while bad that just refuses to go away...

I've ben thinking that Lupin didn't go to Hogwart's until the third year.

Lupin tells Harry that the tree was planted when he arrived at Hogwarts (he doesn't say 'in the first year').

I disagree. Remus started as a first-year like anybody else. We know that prior to replacing Armando Dippet as the Hogwarts Headmaster, Dumbledore was the Transfiguration teacher (CoS); McGonagall started to teach Transfiguration 39 years ago (OoTP). We can then assume that Dumbledore was already the Headmaster when Remus turned 11. According to PoA, Dumbledore saw no reason why Lupin should not be admitted to the scool provided that they took some precautions.

good posts everyone! You all came up with great ideas as to why Harry isn't so close to Lupin. You know, between all of us on this thread we could probably write a more indepth book on Lupin than JK Rowling could!

Oh, and good job Minerve! 28 pages - that must have taken hours! Welcome to the thread of Remus lovers! ^_^

So, who is close to Lupin? Will Harry ever become closer?

Lupin is very trustworthy and kind. I wonder if he will have a bigger part in the Order.

Maybe he will be able to become more open now that Sirius is gone. He will have to have someone to chat with right? Will it be Harry?

Harry is very close to Lupin thats becuase of their time together in Book3... And since he also a member of the Order, a friend of Harrys dad and a past teacher of Harry at Hogwarts then they are closer than we think. :)

Lupin's behaviour towards Harry in OOTP was really very similar to Sirius's. The main difference between them is that Lupin has a much older head on his shoulders, so Harry didn't view him as a brother figure like he did Sirius. I think Lupin sees himself as a kind of substitute uncle to Harry.

Oh, and good job Minerve! 28 pages - that must have taken hours! Welcome to the thread of Remus lovers! ^_^

Thank you, Wolfie! Fortunately enough I am a fast reader (almost 1500 words a minute in my native language, a little slower in English but still quicker than the average people).

I just love Remus. I am pretty sure that JKR had a vision of her ideal man when she created the character :lol: Now that his last true friend is gone, I hope he finds someone to comfort him - I would certainly volunteer, do you think Ms. Rowling would give me a chance? :rotfl:

Wow! That's some fast reading!

Remus Lupin is such a nice guy. If it weren't for that whole werewolf thing, he would be perfect!

He must keep his emotions under check though since he could pose a danger to anyone close to him. That is sooooo sad. Destined to be a loner for the rest of his life.....UNLESS...the wolfsbane potion is just a fore runner of something greater to come! Something that could cure werewolfism FOREVER!

Wow! That's some fast reading!

Remus Lupin is such a nice guy. If it weren't for that whole werewolf thing, he would be perfect!

He must keep his emotions under check though since he could pose a danger to anyone close to him. That is sooooo sad. Destined to be a loner for the rest of his life.....UNLESS...the wolfsbane potion is just a fore runner of something greater to come! Something that could cure werewolfism FOREVER!

Right you are! I have always wondered why JKR elaborated so much on the Armenian Warlock performing a Homorphus Charm on the Wagga Wagga Werewolf in CoS. Sure it was Lockhart who was telling the story but still, I find it strange that she conveniently chose the Werewolf book while there was so many to choose from (according to dear Gilderoy of course). I am very curious about the Homorphus Charm ... and what on earth is a Warlock?

I always thought that a warlock was a male witch. Another name for a wizard?

I'll have to re read that part in the book again. It vaugley rings a bell.

I agree that it is odd that Lockhart chose the werewolf book. But did he know that Lupin was a werewolf? In the CoS?

I'll be re reading my books tonight for sure. I think I can get through at least the first 2....... :shrug:

Right you are! I have always wondered why JKR elaborated so much on the Armenian Warlock performing a Homorphus Charm on the Wagga Wagga Werewolf in CoS. Sure it was Lockhart who was telling the story but still, I find it strange that she conveniently chose the Werewolf book while there was so many to choose from (according to dear Gilderoy of course). I am very curious about the Homorphus Charm ... and what on earth is a Warlock?

That was in the second book, though. Looking back, do you think it is likely at all that the specific mention of this werewolf (if it was mentioned more specifically than anything else) could have been an introduction to what was to come in book three?

I don't believe that there is a miraculous werewolf cure, because I think it's more likely that Lupin, a werewolf, should know more about the matter than Lockhart, a twit. Besides, I want to point out again that the passage did not say that the Wagga Wagga Werewolf was cured... there are many ways a town could be saved from it's monthly werewolf terrors without curing the werewolf. It also never stated what the Homorphus Charm actually does.

Yes, that Charm did seem odd. "Homo" means "the same", and "morpho" is "shape, form, or structure". Now how that could relate to somehow saving a town from the monthly transformations of a werewolf...:shrug: I agree with Cat, that it was almost definitely not some kind of cure. The Wolfsbane Potion is the closest there is to that, as of now.
And Minerve, Windstar's right. A warlock is a male witch, basically another term for wizard. ;) And I have to add my congratulations to you on finishing 28 pages so fast! :wow:

I guess the Homorphus Charm there is a protection against werewolves when you encounter one...

So when you see a werewolf then you shout that charm and from what Tirwen explained i guess it transforms the werewolf back to it's original phase for a few minutes so that you have a chance to run or do something perhaps...

Not everyone can do this charm that's why people get bites from a werewolf and they become one... As for Lupin he was still a child at that time... That's why he can't really do that charm...

That's true, Cat, perhaps the werewolf simply moved to another town. Like Lupin must have to do when it's discovered that he is a werewolf.

And, it is also correct that perhaps the boa constrictor incident was simply for Harry's memories of "odd" things happening to him when he was upset and for evidence of his parseltonguedness. (Is that even a word!?!?) Perhaps it really doesn't have any major relevance for the rest of the series.

Tirwen Lupin, that is neat how you have translated the meaning of the words for that charm.

It sounds like it could work in order for someone to have a chance to get away from the werewolf. Could it just stun the werewolf or make him immobile so that you could get away?

I still feel that with the discovery of the wolfsbane potion, that someday there will be a cure for being a werewolf! :agree:

That's true, Cat, perhaps the werewolf simply moved to another town. Like Lupin must have to do when it's discovered that he is a werewolf.

And, it is also correct that perhaps the boa constrictor incident was simply for Harry's memories of "odd" things happening to him when he was upset and for evidence of his parseltonguedness. (Is that even a word!?!?) Perhaps it really doesn't have any major relevance for the rest of the series.

Tirwen Lupin, that is neat how you have translated the meaning of the words for that charm.

It sounds like it could work in order for someone to have a chance to get away from the werewolf. Could it just stun the werewolf or make him immobile so that you could get away?

I still feel that with the discovery of the wolfsbane potion, that someday there will be a cure for being a werewolf! :agree:



Just a little precision ; "Homo" also means "man" in Latin (did 3 years of Latin, never thought it would come in handy :lol: ).

I am not saying the Homorphus Charm is a cure, I simply believe that the whole chapter was put in CoS to draw our attention on the fact that there are things that may not be generally known to the Wizarding world. After all, it looks that the Warlock in question was among the rare persons who could perform the Charm. Who knows, there may be a Healer somewhere who could use ancient magic or "medical" knowledge to make the research progress (please, don't take away all my illusions :scared: )

Regarding the definition of a Warlock, it must refer to a specific kind of wizards. I read somewhere - don't remember in which book but it was during a "History of Magic" course - about a convention reuniting Wizards, Witches and Warlocks from all around the world. (Were you about to suggest I re-read them all tonight? Come on, it takes 5 hours only for OoTP :D )

I still feel that with the discovery of the wolfsbane potion, that someday there will be a cure for being a werewolf!
You have no idea how much I agree with you! :agree:

:banghead: I'm probably the only person who managed to miss this, but in CoS the effects of the Homorphus Charm are described exactly. Or almost:
In Chapter 10, Lockhart decribes it:
"I pounced on him--like this--slammed him to the floor--thus--with one hand, I managed to hold him down--with my other, I put my wand to his throat... I performed the immensly complex Homorphus Charm--he let out a piteous moan... the fur vanished--the fangs shrank--and he turned back into a man. Simple, yet effective..."
Minerve's mentioned how JKR made that rather elaborate, but I can just be really slow to catch on. :D
So, this seems like a pretty good spell. But it can't be a cure, or Lupin would have had it done on him. We have to remember that it was Lockhart talking, but he probably knew how it happened, even if he wasn't the one doing it.

EDIT: Thanks for the exact definition, Minerve! I was just using my regular dictionary.It makes much more sense now--The Man-Form Charm.

Minerve's mentioned how JKR made that rather elaborate, but I can just be really slow to catch on. :D
So, this seems like a pretty good spell. But it can't be a cure, or Lupin would have had it done on him. We have to remember that it was Lockhart talking, but he probably knew how it happened, even if he wasn't the one doing it.

EDIT: Thanks for the exact definition, Minerve! I was just using my regular dictionary.It makes much more sense now--The Man-Form Charm.

You're very welcome, Tirwen Lupin! If you recall, Lockhart mentions that the Charm is extremely complex, we can assume that not many Wizards can perform it.

Lockhart also says :

... and another village will remember me forever as the hero who delivered them from the monthly terror of werewolf attacks.

So either the werewolf was dead ... or the man survived but wasn't a werewolf anymore. Anybody has a copy of "Wanderings with Werewolves" so we can check that out? :lol:

At the very beginning of Chapter 10 (CoS), Harry is even asked to play the werewolf part during Gilderoy's demonstration as if to emphasize the action without drawing to much attention. JKR does that all the time...

I don't think the Homorphus Charm would be a cure, surely someone at St Mungo's can do it?

So either the werewolf was dead ... or the man survived but wasn't a werewolf anymore.


Or the werewolf was taken to whatever the Australian version of the Ministry is, to whatever department deals with werewolves, to be booked as a werewolf, then to be, presumably, re-housed suitably.

I don't speak Latin like a Roman, but I could figure out what 'homorphus' meant. 'Change into a human'... still doesn't translate to a cure. Could it be the spell that forced Peter Pettigrew back into his original shape in the Shrieking Shack? If you can get a werewolf to change its shape for just long enough, you can stun him or restrain him and take him away.

Incidentally, why is this werewolf the Wagga Wagga werewolf if he lived in a village? Wagga Wagga is a city.

Or the werewolf was taken to whatever the Australian version of the Ministry is, to whatever department deals with werewolves, to be booked as a werewolf, then to be, presumably, re-housed suitably.

I don't speak Latin like a Roman, but I could figure out what 'homorphus' meant. 'Change into a human'... still doesn't translate to a cure. Could it be the spell that forced Peter Pettigrew back into his original shape in the Shrieking Shack? If you can get a werewolf to change its shape for just long enough, you can stun him or restrain him and take him away.

Incidentally, why is this werewolf the Wagga Wagga werewolf if he lived in a village? Wagga Wagga is a city.

I don't know, Cat. I took the "village" thing directly from the book. I just wish I knew more about that Wagga Wagga story, that's all. Even if the Homorphus Charm is not a cure, I am curious to hear about it.

"I pounced on him--like this--slammed him to the floor--thus--with one hand, I managed to hold him down--with my other, I put my wand to his throat... I performed the immensly complex Homorphus Charm--he let out a piteous moan... the fur vanished--the fangs shrank--and he turned back into a man. Simple, yet effective..."

With the general prejudice against werewolves being so high anyway, would the charm perhaps be imperfect and therefore a lethal one, a fact which Lockhart simply forgot to mention? It forces the werewolf to change back but in the process kind of kills them... oops? So in that case it might be someone's failed attempt at a cure?

With the general prejudice against werewolves being so high anyway, would the charm perhaps be imperfect and therefore a lethal one, a fact which Lockhart simply forgot to mention? It forces the werewolf to change back but in the process kind of kills them... oops? So in that case it might be someone's failed attempt at a cure?
That's what I'm thinking too. Even though it was described as an "immensly complex charm", I seriously doubt that it would be too complex for Dumbledore. If Lupin took the Wolfsbane Potion, the charm could have been performed if it was actually a cure.
So there must be something significanlty wrong with it; it could very possibly end up lethal, as you said. I imagine that many wizards wouldn't care about that, as long as their town was safe. They'd consider the werewolf to simply be a monster, rather than the person that he is most of the time.
I don't speak Latin like a Roman, but I could figure out what 'homorphus' meant. 'Change into a human'... still doesn't translate to a cure. Could it be the spell that forced Peter Pettigrew back into his original shape in the Shrieking Shack? If you can get a werewolf to change its shape for just long enough, you can stun him or restrain him and take him away.
That's possible, but Lockhart's description of what happened to the werewolf was quite different from what happened when Lupin and Sirius turned Peter back into a human. Of course, there's the difference that a wolf is far bigger than a rat, but they still didn't seem to be the same spell.
And it's also a possiblity that the charm was just for turning the wolf temporarily into a person so he could be taken away. (By the way, I don't speak Latin at all, that's why I made it seem like such a big deal. :lol: )

I think I have to put my money on Cat. Maybe Wagga Wagga couldn't figure out the identity of the werewolf, but when the person who used Homorphos (not Lockhart, of course!) tranformed the werewolf back into a man, his identity was revealed to the villagers.

Enter supposision: they drove him off--OR, they might have force-fed him Snape's potion after they knew to whom it should be administered (rather like the notion that Snape would force-feed poison to students who ask about love potions)!

That's possible, but Lockhart's description of what happened to the werewolf was quite different from what happened when Lupin and Sirius turned Peter back into a human. Of course, there's the difference that a wolf is far bigger than a rat, but they still didn't seem to be the same spell.
And it's also a possiblity that the charm was just for turning the wolf temporarily into a person so he could be taken away. (By the way, I don't speak Latin at all, that's why I made it seem like such a big deal. :lol: )

I don't speak Latin, either, but if you're nifty with words you can work some things out ;).

I don't see how the description is much different. The transformation of Scabbers was described as something like a tree growing in top speed, and the description is discarded, but essentially it seems the same. Besides, Lockhart wouldn't have actually seen the wolf change, whether it was described to him or not, and it might be one of those things you really have to see for yourself.

Besides, there is another reason why I don't believe this is the answer to all of Lupin's problems... the world isn't that easy. You can't sit around waiting for a miracle cure, I'm sure people in this world who suffer from permanent conditions know that all too well. It's hard and it's unfair, but people have to adapt to the difficulties that life throws at them. If they can keep their head up high, even if only metaphorically, then they're some of the greatest people around. Professor Lupin, with the constant metaphor of his werewolf condition, might be a much less valid lesson if he could just get cured and have his disadvantages ended.

Ahhh, but it would be sooo nice to see him relieved of all that pressure and stress and see him start a new wonderful life....... :agree: Find a great job, perhaps fall in love and get married and have children. After all he's been through, he deserves some happiness.

That's right windstar... After all Lupin has been a good guy never hurt a single person as what we know of... A reward must be given to him... I am pretty sure someday Snape would find a suitable cure for his illness and i am pretty sure that Snape would be involved in Lupin to become a real human being again...

That would be interesting, Snape helping Lupin, then maybe they could end up being civil toward each other eventually!

And maybe Lupin, because he is a good guy, could help convince Snape that Harry isn't so bad after all....but convincing Snape of that could be quite an undertaking beings as his hatred of Harry runs soooo deep.

That's right windstar... After all Lupin has been a good guy never hurt a single person as what we know of... A reward must be given to him... I am pretty sure someday Snape would find a suitable cure for his illness and i am pretty sure that Snape would be involved in Lupin to become a real human being again...
I think so too. He deserves to be rid of it--it's caused him so much trouble, physically and socially. He's one of the most noble characters in the series, it's a pity that he has to go through that. But even if he is cured, all the werewolf discrimination should be ended--it's up to each person whether or not they want the prejudice to end, but the ministry should stop treating them so unfairly.
Snape involved with it? There's an idea... Those two are two of my favorite characters, it would be great to see their feud resolved. Though Snape was making the Wolfsbane Potion at Dumbledore's request, I'd like to see him help Lupin out of his own free will. And who knows, Lupin might help him in turn, somehow.

But Cat, you have very good points. I admire Lupin for maitaining such dignity, strength, and cheerfulness. I agree that he wouldn't be such an esteemable characer if he had a perfect life. I just think he deserves to be released from his terrible ailment.

Well said Cat! :clappy: If he does die in the future books, I'm coming with ya for the attack. Anyway, I just had to comment on Cat's well-put remark since I've felt the same way about Remus ever since he was introduced in book 3.

I loved Remus' part in this book, although, like most of you, I wanted to see a bit more of his pain and anguish at Sirius' death. His two best friends from the time of childhood are now dead, and his other maurader friend turned into a heartless traitor. Since he is a fairly emotionally connected kind of guy, he has to have some pretty deep feelings on this subject that we haven't seen yet. I love Remus, but I do feel like the readers still need to get to know him better. I can't wait until that happens.

One of my favorite Remus parts of book 5 is when he is comforting Molly when she's attempting to banish the boggart from the Black house. She's tortured at the sight of her dead husband and children, and Lupin comforts her and reassures her that if anything happened to her and Arthur that the rest of the Order would take care of Ron and Ginny. It was so sweet and very telling about Lupin's kind character.

Seashell and Cat, well put, i had to respond. i love lupin, he is a perfect father figure to Harry, ( I would absolutely love it if he turns out to be James) I totally adore the part you referenced when he comforts Molly, and I think its interesting the way he keeps his eye on Sirius the whole time when Sirius and Molly are arguing about whether Harry should or should not be told about Voldemort's plan. I really think the way Lupin interrupts Sirius and halts the conversation is interesting and may show his "fatherly" concern for Harry, sort of letting his emotions show without meaning to. Anyway, regardless of whether you subscribe to the Lupin is James theory, ( I must admit, I am hooked, because I LOVE LUPIN) I think that Lupin is the obvious Sirius replacement for Harry. Not only that, call me crazy but I remember a quote, from JKR in which she said something about having written Sirius' death because it was necessary for the books to end up the way she planned. My theory, whether or not it is reasonable, is that the only way for Harry to develop a close relationship with Lupin is to get rid of Sirius. If Lupin is James, Sirius would only be "in the way" of that relationship. Remember when Harry comes to speak with Sirius and Lupin is in the kitchen, and Harry immediately asks for Sirius, (kind of blowing off Lupin) but Lupin stays right there through the conversation, and is equally concerned about Harry. That shows that Harry would always push Lupin to the side as long as Sirius were available. (Forgive me, but I just did not like Sirius as much as Lupin. I hated that he got mad at Harry for worrying about him, and just think he was rather immature. I like Lupin much much better. )
(Yes I still hated that he died. )

I dont want to repeat myself here, but I just responded to Seashell regarding this, and I really am interested to hear the answer to the question, will Sirius' death bring Harry and Lupin closer? I personally believe that the reason JKR killed Sirius was to deepen the relationship between Harry and Lupin, who seems to be a more important character than Sirius. (Sorry Sirius people). I love Lupin. I adore his character, and want so much to see him end up a father figure, (or possibly a real father??) to Harry. I think that this relationship could never blossom with Sirius around. I loved Sirius, but didnt necessarily think he was a good influence on Harry, and feel that Lupin is far more steady. (OK OK I think he is James, I admit it :blush:

I think that Lupin is definitely a better influence on Harry than Sirius was. Harry with some of Lupin's calmness would be a good thing. More like Dumbledore is I think. I am not sure if I believe that Lupin is James though. Lupin seems to be caring and thoughtful towards everyone, not just Harry. After the OotP Snape scene, I have to wonder about James' disposition. Lupin didn't join in with the picking on Snape but James was right there. If Lupin were James, wouldn't he take any possible opportunity to pick on Snape now?

I dont want to repeat myself here, but I just responded to Seashell regarding this, and I really am interested to hear the answer to the question, will Sirius' death bring Harry and Lupin closer? I personally believe that the reason JKR killed Sirius was to deepen the relationship between Harry and Lupin, who seems to be a more important character than Sirius. (Sorry Sirius people). I love Lupin. I adore his character, and want so much to see him end up a father figure, (or possibly a real father??) to Harry. I think that this relationship could never blossom with Sirius around. I loved Sirius, but didnt necessarily think he was a good influence on Harry, and feel that Lupin is far more steady. (OK OK I think he is James, I admit it :blush:

Well, I wouldn't want him to BE James, and frankly I think there's no way Harry will get his parents back. But Lupin has always acted like more of a father figure, so it makes sense that Lupin takes in Harry or something line that.

Ahhh, but it would be sooo nice to see him relieved of all that pressure and stress and see him start a new wonderful life...

:agree:
It would be nice to see many people shorn of their troubles and illnesses, but it's not always something you can expect. All you can hope for is that they live their lives to the fullest regardless. Reality isn't perfectly fair, handing out 'rewards' to everybody who deserves them, and fiction shouldn't be that way either. If Professor Lupin continues to take that potion, and he can come to terms with everything in a happy way, he could live the rest of his life in comfort. He'd be just like an occasional Animagus.

Besides, whether it's the perfect circumstance or not, being a werewolf is a lot of what Professor Lupin is.

What makes you so sure he isn't married with children now? :D
I don't believe he is, either, if it comes to that.

Ginnythecat- I completely agree with you that Lupin would be great father-figure to Harry. But better than Sirius, I don't know--they both have their pros and cons of being in that postion. But yes, Lupin's calmness would be a good influence. Though, I don't think JKR killed off Sirius just for Lupin--though he probably will come to be something of a father/godfather replacement to Harry (I mean, he's the last remaining Marauder, since Peter doesn't really count) I don't think that's the reason the death would make the books end up the way she planned.
And as for the theory of James being Lupin--I really don't believe in it (though I won't go into that in detail since it has its own thread (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=6349)). It would seem to take the whole point away from his character. Apart from the personality factors that Windstar pointed out, there seems to be a rather huge hole in it--If Lupin is James, why didn't he try to clear Sirius? He'd know full well that Peter was the traitor, not Sirius.

Considering what JKR has said about how much she loves Lupin, I did wonder if she did kill Sirius to give Lupin a bigger role. In OOTP, Lupin didn't really do anything that no-one else could do. Perhaps Sirius had to die to set the stage for Lupin's important role in book 7.

If Lupin is going to be cured, I want to see a big change in society first. JKR says that his lycanthropy is a metaphor for illness and disability. Shouldn't society be tolerant of individual differences, whether or not there's a cure for such conditions?

Actually, Remus did do something that no one else has been able to do. He was able to understand Harry and act like a responsible parent. He knew where to draw the line in the sand and he knew how to balance Harry's experience with his age. It's his voice that wins out in the argument over Harry hearing the situation. Not Sirius, not Molly. He really was the most adult adult in this mix. But Sirius was not killed to give Remus breathing space as a character. I refer everyone to the showdown between Voldemort & Dumbledore when Voldemort possessed Harry. What triggered Harry's acceptance of death and sent all the love in his heart gushing through his body (making it absolutely uninhabitable for Voldemort)? His GRIEF for Sirius who had just DIED. He had lost faith in both his parents. Or rather, he'd lost faith in James with whom he identified more and didn't know enough about Lily to retain faith in her. If Sirius doesn't die but Harry gets cornered by Voldemort with Dumbledore there, several things would happen in succession.

1. Voldemort would possess Harry.

2. Dumbledore would refuse to kill Harry.

3. Voldemort, acting through Harry would kill Dumbledore.

4. Voldemort would gather up Bella and leave.

5. Fudge would appear on the scene and Harry would spend the rest of his life in Azkaban for the murder of Albus Percival Wulfric Brian Dumbledore.

6. Voldemort would win the war with Harry and Dumbledore out of the way.

Considering what JKR has said about how much she loves Lupin, I did wonder if she did kill Sirius to give Lupin a bigger role. In OOTP, Lupin didn't really do anything that no-one else could do. Perhaps Sirius had to die to set the stage for Lupin's important role in book 7.


I doubt she would kill off a character just to revel in another one. She'd planned Sirius death all along, that's apparant, and she wouldn't have introduced him at all if his purpose was just to be replaced.

Lupin could have had a bigger role whether Sirius was dead or alive, I think. He just happens to be dead.

*
I think Lupin's relationship with Harry is neither father/son close or particularly distant. At the moment, and I'm not sure how long a moment lasts in Harry Potter, I think the relationship could be summed up like this:
'Call me Remus, Harry'
'Yes, Professor Lupin'.

Or close enough. They're acquaintances. They don't need a deep feeling family bond towards each other, they can do just as well to become good friends.

Ah, Harry and Ludo are acquaintances. I'd say he and Remus are friends and that that friendship might become deeper now that Lupin is the last remaining Marauder.

'Call me Remus, Harry'
'Yes, Professor Lupin'.
I could hardly agree more! :rotfl:
It seems that Harry is subconsciously more respectful to Lupin than he needs to be. The year when Lupin was his teacher seems to have stuck--even now that it's no longer the case, Harry still considers him something of a teacher. I don't think it'll be exactly a father-son-ish realtionship, I just hope they'll become closer friends.

I doubt she would kill off a character just to revel in another one. She'd planned Sirius death all along, that's apparant, and she wouldn't have introduced him at all if his purpose was just to be replaced.


I wasn't really suggesting that Sirius was only killed off to give Lupin a bigger role. It's probably not even the main reason. But this is a series where most events have a whole lot of consequences, and I think one of the major side-effects of Sirius's death will be a more prominent role for Lupin. I felt that in this book his role was just to be a nice guy. You could take him out of the book without changing the plot (if someone else led the Advance Guard and saved Harry running into the veil). He could have been a consequential character while Sirius was around, but for whatever reason, he wasn't in this book, and now that Sirius is gone, it's more likely that he'll become one again.

I felt that Lupin was dropping hints to Harry during OOTP that Harry should see him as a friend or uncley figure rather than a teacher. But Harry was already close to Sirius who had a much younger head than Lupin. In this book, Harry didn't really talk to Lupin much at all, and it would be nice to see them having a chat like they did over tea in POA - even though Lupin was a teacher Harry still felt able to open up to him. I'm quite surprised, now I think of it, that Harry didn't feel closer to Lupin once he found out that Lupin was his father's friend.

The complex profoundity of your explanation, Cat... :lol:

I can see a dynamic which would make it difficult for Harry and Lupin to get close even if Lupin was James' friend. Harry doesn't start friendships and relationships unless he's pushed into them - with Ron because Ron was the first person Harry met, Hermione with the troll, Sirius with dementors, being a godfather, and the possibility Harry could live with him someday, Cho when Hermione very nearly had to tell him what to do every step. And as I said before, Lupin's not pushing a relationship. With the little dialogue Cat gave, Lupin asks once and stops.

Maybe this'll be a chance to see Harry make a friend without being pushed into the friendship? Lupin's a little more than an acquaintence, but he isn't a friend. They're too distant. They'll talk when they're together but they're not seeking each other out to talk...

:agree:
It would be nice to see many people shorn of their troubles and illnesses, but it's not always something you can expect. All you can hope for is that they live their lives to the fullest regardless. Reality isn't perfectly fair, handing out 'rewards' to everybody who deserves them, and fiction shouldn't be that way either. If Professor Lupin continues to take that potion, and he can come to terms with everything in a happy way, he could live the rest of his life in comfort. He'd be just like an occasional Animagus.

Besides, whether it's the perfect circumstance or not, being a werewolf is a lot of what Professor Lupin is.

What makes you so sure he isn't married with children now? :D
I don't believe he is, either, if it comes to that.

Right you are, Cat. Even though there is no cure, I would like to see the Wolfsbane potion improved so poor Lupin doesn't feel any pain when he transforms. :sigh: It is said in PoA that the potion allows the werewolf to keep his human mind but that the transformation is very painful ... is it asking too much from Ms. Rowling to ease our dear Remus's suffering? :no:

I don't see Lupin filling the role of a father figure, or at least I don't see him doing it alone. As Harry doesn't have anyone now, as far as we know, and probably won't accept anyone even if he did, then the best thing he can have is everyone chipping in. I can see that a lot of Harry's friends, particularly those in the Order of the Phoenix, will put it to themselves to mind Harry. They'll all, collectively, be his guard, his friends and his family.

Lupin obviously cares a lot for Harry, but he's still just his favourite teacher verging on friend. And that's not just from Harry's perspective ... Lupin still talks proudly about Harry's work in his lessons, even though he's no longer his teacher. Which is a good thing! Harry needs a good teacher and a good friend, and Lupin fits both very well.

About being cured ... I feel horrible saying this, but I hope he can't be (and really I don't see how - there isn't one, or else it wouldn't be such a dangerous predicament). As a person I would like him to be, but as a character it's different ... I like Lupin the character as a werewolf.

Do you really think that his grief at losing Sirius is what saved him from Voldemort? I know that he had lost faith in his parents but I thought that their love would protect him no matter what. A parents love for their child is unconditional. As a parent of a teenager, I know that how ever much my child may hate me one moment, I still love him no matter what. And eventually, that moment will pass and we will be close again. Parent's understand that children may loose their respect for them at any time for any reason, but they still love their kids unconditionally. They may not like them very much sometimes, because of the way they've acted, but the still always love them. I think that James' and Lily's love for Harry would have protected him, not so much Harry's grief over Sirius's death. It could have been a small factor though.

Well since sirus is gone well i guess the only thing that is left in Harrys life is Remus, i think that he will gone on to play a fatherly figure towards harry!

I think that he loves harry and would be like a godfather to him, thats why i think that Remus will end up picking up the pieces from where Sirus left off. :agree:

I'm not sure that he'll exactly be a father figure. In the way that Sirius was a combination of father and brother to Harry, I think Remus will be more of a combination of father and best friend. If that makes sense. I don't think Harry will ever have an exact father replacement, but there will be people who will be similar to one for him.

And on a completely different note: Do any of you think werewolves have shorter life expectancies than normal people? It seems to cause a lot of premature aging, so could it cause premature death as well?

I'd say more father or uncle than anything else. Sirius was rather like father, brother, and best friend all wrapped in a single package. Harry isn't that close to Remus. I don't think Harry would allow himself to get that close to anyone again and if he tried Remus certainly wouldn't allow it, much too dangerous for Harry.

That's an interesting question, tirwinlupin. Being a werewolf, does seem to have taken it's toll on Lupin's features. I wonder how long a werewolf could survive, if he isn't killed by non-werewolves.

good point tirwen. something tells me that between the stress, the transformations, and all the bleeding (cuts and all) that its gotta cut his life span down. but since wizards live considerably longer than muggles anyway, it probably doesnt matter lol.

I felt that Lupin was dropping various subtle hints that Harry shouldn't see him as just a teacher any more. Leading the advance guard, the Christmas present, the clap on the shoulder at the station, all the concerned looks and advice - and to top it off, he saved Harry's life. In fact, Lupin's actions towards Harry were remarkably like Sirius's, and I think Lupin was angling after a share of Harry's affection for Sirius. Harry was just too wrapped up with Sirius to take the hints. Maybe now he will start seeing Lupin as a sort of surrogate uncle, but I hope he will realise that the Order members are willing to be all the substitute family he could want.

I think the implication is pretty clear that he will start to do that. But it will take some time to develop that relationship. Let's hope they have that chance. Please remember, however, that it wouldn't be the same. Just as, having Hermione as your best friend is less fun than having Ron to clown around with, Remus is a lot more responsible and a lot less free-spirited than Sirius (who sort of mimicks James in that way). It'll be an important relationship, but it'll be different.

ugh i just hope that harry doesnt lose lupin next. it would not be cool if he became close with lupin and then had to say goodbye to him, too. maybe remus can turn into his werewolf self and go after a DE from behind while a veela keeps the DE distracted ;)

That would be so sad if Lupin were the next to go in Harry's life. Can you imagine loosing so many people that were important to you? That would be too hard to deal with.
I think loosing Lupin would be harder than loosing Sirius though. I still think that Harry should feel closer to Lupin than he did to Sirius. I understand that their relationship will not be the same as Harry's and Sirius' was. When Harry and Lupin were friends, it was mostly Lupin teaching Harry. But they were able to discuss things that Harry needed to talk about also.
I think Harry having a relationship with Lupin is important.

I still think that Harry should feel closer to Lupin than he did to Sirius.

Lupin wasn't the one who escaped a horrible prison and travelled miles and miles to protect Harry, and then offered him a home. Of course Harry feels closer to Sirius. But I felt that Harry was less close to Lupin in OOTP than in POA because he was relying on Sirius, and it would be nice to see them resume that old mentor/protege relationship or something closer. At least, Harry ought to realise pretty soon that Lupin saved his life by stopping him running into the veil.

While that is true about Black, Harry had just met Black and heard his story about being innocent and was willing to go live with Black just like that. I know, Lupin never offered this to Harry.
Over the summer, Harry had little to no communication with either Black or Lupin. How could their relationship have grown?
I also hope that Lupin and Harry go back to the way they were. They both need someone that they can count on. Lupin would be a good influence on Harry and could teach him so much.

While that is true about Black, Harry had just met Black and heard his story about being innocent and was willing to go live with Black just like that. I know, Lupin never offered this to Harry.
Over the summer, Harry had little to no communication with either Black or Lupin. How could their relationship have grown?
I also hope that Lupin and Harry go back to the way they were. They both need someone that they can count on. Lupin would be a good influence on Harry and could teach him so much.


You know, your write Lupin will be a great influence on Harry. I do worry about Lupins character though. I feel that he might be in serious grief over the loss of Sirius Black, he could hardly speak when holding Harry back in the department of mysteries.

I think both Harry and Lupin need to get there heads in gear before they both do something rash. I can see Lupin having a go at Snape for one thing over the occlumancy lesson cancelations.

I also worry about Lupin. He has so many emotional issues to deal with, I'm sure, being a werewolf.
People look down upon him, he can't keep a job, he can't have any type of a relationship with anyone because of his condition.
Plus he has the deaths of his friends to deal with.
He has alot of things to deal with. But so far, he has been doing ok with it all.
Maybe him becoming a werewolf helps get some of his frustrations out of his system. Wouldn't it be nice to be able to rant and rave and tear things up and have a good excuse for doing it? I know, being a werewolf isn't a pleasant experience.
You really think that Lupin will confront Snape about the olcumency lessons? I wonder how Dumbledore is going to handle Snape not continuing the lessons. I know that Dumbledore is aware of it, but is he going to yell at Snape or something?

Wouldn't it be nice to be able to rant and rave and tear things up and have a good excuse for doing it?

I did wonder this myself, especially in the light of Harry's line "I don't want to be human". Then again, Harry doesn't really know what that's like, and Lupin has probably (I hope!) been taking his potion which lets him keep his own personality when he transforms.

Being a werewolf isn't "not being human" it's being human PLUS having to take responsibility for your actions 36 days a year over which you have no control. As for Lupin, yeah I think Severus is brewing him the potion.

Wouldn't it be nice to be able to rant and rave and tear things up and have a good excuse for doing it?
That's an interesting way to look at it, but I don't think that's the case. He has no control of what he's doing. He can't really think, about what he's doing or about what's happened. It can't exaclty be a way for him to vent his feelings, because those feelings disappear, in a way.
Besides, I think Snape really is making the potion for him. They all know better than to take a risk like not giving Lupin the potion.
As for Lupin taking on Snape because of the Occlumency lessons, I can't really picture that happening. Dumbledore will probably be the one to have a thing or two to tell Snape, though Lupin might have something to add. He'll probably try to put it aside without a big fight... though I wouldn't be dissappointed to see Lupin give Snape a piece of his mind.

But Lupin is passive, a natural-born peace-maker he wouldn't waste his energy or Severus' in a throwdown over this. It's not his style. When it is necessary he's cold as steel but it isn't necessary here.

But Lupin is passive, a natural-born peace-maker he wouldn't waste his energy or Severus' in a throwdown over this. It's not his style. When it is necessary he's cold as steel but it isn't necessary here.
Absolutely. Lupin is not going to go pick a fight with Snape over the lessons. I only meant that I'd like to see him do that ( :lol: ), not that it would actually happen. Lupin is certainly not happy about it, but he knows that taking it out on Snape is not going to do anything to change what happened. He knows that it's not worth straining the Order's unity more than necesarry.

It would be interesting to see the gloves come off between the two of them, but I just can't see Lupin in a fight for spite like this. I would like to see him and Neville with a new wand team up to take Bella down, though.

He's still got lots of other friends, he just lost his last best friend a bet he's feeling sad and :censored: off and probably wants to get revenge.

You know. I don't think Remus could be capable of even thinking about revenge. It's not his style. Honnestly, I think he blames himself. I think he will always blame himself for everything. It's the kind of person he is.

Saying that, he needs to get over blaming himself for everything when it's not his fault. He also needs to get over the fact that he's a Werewolf, he can't change it.

You know. I don't think Remus could be capable of even thinking about revenge. It's not his style. Honnestly, I think he blames himself. I think he will always blame himself for everything. It's the kind of person he is.

Saying that, he needs to get over blaming himself for everything when it's not his fault. He also needs to get over the fact that he's a Werewolf, he can't change it.
That's true, he's certainly not the vengeful type. But he's upset about Sirius's death, and I somehow don't think that he'd hesitate in getting back at Bella. He can be quite ruthless, as he showed with Pettigrew at the end of PoA.
I don't see him blamimg himself for it, he doesn't have a reason to. But you're right, he is very self-critical, and does tend to blame himself for things. Lupin seems to be one of the few people who actaully dislikes Lupin. I agree, there's no need for him to do that.
But what do you mean by him having to "get over" being a werewolf? He doesn't whine and complain about it, he doesn't show self-pity. He seems to have accepted it with dignity, that it's just a part of his life that he needs to live with.

I just meant that he's self critical about the fact that he is a werewolf. Or that's how it comes across to me. He needs to get over what people think about him, because of his condidtion. He takes it too much to heart.

hey :) Im going to try and catch up w/all of the pages, I think Ill try reading them backwards ;) Lupin is a great character...
Anways, about Lupin in OoTp, we did sort of see Lupins reaction at Snape stopping the Occlumency lessons. He tells Sirius "if anyone is going to tell Snape its going to be me" so that sounded like he was planning to have a rational conversation, not freak out. I think that Lupin will blame Snape to a certain extent, but as you said FlarbyGarby, he isnt the vengeful type. Although, he will give someone what they deserve and he knows where to draw the line. I just hope that if Lupin trys to get closer to Harry in the next book we wont hear any "your not my father/Sirius!" business because Harry is upset. hmmmm

That's true, he's certainly not the vengeful type. But he's upset about Sirius's death, and I somehow don't think that he'd hesitate in getting back at Bella. He can be quite ruthless, as he showed with Pettigrew at the end of PoA.
I don't see him blamimg himself for it, he doesn't have a reason to. But you're right, he is very self-critical, and does tend to blame himself for things. Lupin seems to be one of the few people who actaully dislikes Lupin. I agree, there's no need for him to do that.
But what do you mean by him having to "get over" being a werewolf? He doesn't whine and complain about it, he doesn't show self-pity. He seems to have accepted it with dignity, that it's just a part of his life that he needs to live with.

He's not the vengeful type, true enough, but he's not quite a doormat, either (not that you claimed he was). He does have enough of a temper to bad-mouth people occasionally - Sirius told the Trio that "you should hear Remus talk about her" (Umbridge), so he apparently says what he thinks to his closest friends, at least. :tu: He just has enough sense/discretion not to go shouting his grievances on every streetcorner.

He also managed to get in a dig at Snape in the form of Neville's boggart. :D

But you're right, he is very self-critical, and does tend to blame himself for things. Lupin seems to be one of the few people who actaully dislikes Lupin. I agree, there's no need for him to do that.


Actually, I think one of his most admirable qualities is that he acknowledges his own flaws. Better than being arrogant, in any case.

Two things about Lupin's flaws - they're quiet ones that are easy to hide and hard to notice, and they tend to cause problems, potentially gargantuan problems, even when Lupin can't really be blamed for it. He blames himself when he had a part in creating a problem, which is different than blaming himself for every last thing.

Tirwen---It isn't so much that Lupin dislikes himself. He's learned to care for others so much that he can't forgive himself for putting them in danger needlessly. It's an admirable quality. I really don't think it's a failing or a symptom of a self-esteem problem.

Tarawyn--You're right, he is selective. It's just odd the number of things he believes he could have or should have prevented.

I didn't mean "dislike himself" in quite such a broad sense. It's more that puts more blame than necessary on himself, when he really doesn't deserve that much of it. I agree, it comes from the way he cares for other so much and he can't forgive himself if he had any part in putting them in danger. That way of caring for other people is part of what makes him an endearing character.
At any rate, admitting his flaws is certainly a more admirable quality than arrogance.

Lupin probably just feels that he has to make up for his werewolf side when he isn't a werewolf. I'd probably feel the same way if I was in his position. Also, if you've got a big secret to keep; you don't want to go around attracting attention, since you're scared that people might find out about it, through getting interested and then figuring out about the monthly absences (in his case). Even if the chance of someone finding out just because they get to know you is really small; you can't see that when you're freaked out.

Being a werewolf certainly isn't an easy thing... I wonder if wizards with experience know how to recognize werewolves, when they're in human shape...?

Lupin seems to have alot of the same qualities as Dumbledore does. I can't see Dumbledore in a rash verbal confrontation with Snape any more than I could see Lupin doing that. Dumbledore would get his jabs in though, without anyone knowing what he had said until much later.

I wonder if wizards with experience know how to recognize werewolves, when they're in human shape...?
That would be interesting, if there were some telltale signs that a person was a werewolf. It seems like the only signs of it that are shown when the werewolf is a person is that they look sickly and prematurely old. Or at least, that's what happened to Lupin after many years of it.
But maybe there are subtler things that some sort of werewolf expert could spot. Maybe something with the hair, or the teeth... just a guess.
But I think that werewolves, overall, look like quite normal people.

Lupins the kind of man who will speak out stright to you if you've done something wrong and make you feel guilty for it. He even feels guilty about all the things he has done. I think the way he holds himself together and helps Harry towards understanding himself better is quite impressive. Lupin is a character I am warming to everyday. He stands back from a situation, analysises it and then takes control of what is happening. He never rushes in recklessly. I think Harry is going to learn a lot from Lupin, patients being one of his greatest vertues.

I only cried when the Lupin and Harry dialog during Siriuses death in OotP occured. My heart just melted for both of them.

I think Lupin might become very protective over Harry and that is where Lupin and Snape might have there little or large moments in the next book. Harrys the only thing left over from the fab 4 that Lupin can hold onto.

Lupin has all the qualities of a great DADA teacher or auror.

I don't think he will be overly protective of Harry. I think he'll want him prepared and able to defend himself because he realizes that this is Harry's fight.

I don't think he'll be overprotective of Harry either. He was the balance between Sirius and Mrs. Weasley when they were arguing over whether to Harry know. Lupin doesn't have much more than Harry, but like I've said before, he doesn't overstep the boundaries between then, and right now at least I can't see him playing the protective parent. He doesn't want Harry to get hurt, doesn't want Harry to step over himself, but he's not going to stop Harry from doing any of it.

Sorry for going off on a tangent, it's something I occasionally do, but....

The werewolves in Harry Potter, as well as being people that turn into monstrous creatures with select appetites, seem to be mostly a metaphor of AIDS and HIV. J. K. Rowling has never stated that specifically but it is the most obvious conclusion to me. I just want to point out, while on this tangent, that this is one of the cleverest metaphors I've ever had to pleasure of reading. Werewolves can be used in fiction and fairy tale to represent and suggest a variety of things, but I don't recall of the top of my head a werewolf ever being shown in this light. Fascinating stuff.

And people like to think that J. K. Rowling is not a clever writer. Even the youngest and most unlearned of readers might, years from now, see a strangely similar state of affairs being applied to somebody with AIDs or HIV and they'll think 'Hang on... Professor Lupin!'. I've always thought, and often said, that fantasy is not a form of escapism. It's a form of exploration. What you get when you take a step through the looking glass is usually a reflection of what's on the other side....

She has indeed said that she intended his lycanrthropy as a metaphor for illness and disability in general. Despite my general fondness for warning against overanalysis, there really is a deeper meaning here, and it irritates me no end to see people who have apparently never heard of a metaphor saying that the Harry Potter series has no relevance to the real world.

The only other thing I've got to say about Lupin right now is that I'm getting to the point where I get quite annoyed if people talk about the HP series without mentioning him. I think they should because, as well as being a wonderful person and a cool metaphor, he is very well drawn, much more subtle than a typical children's book character.

While Rowling has said Lupin's condition is a metaphor for illness or disability, I'd be careful about assuming it has to be any specific one. After all, in nearly all cases, it's only spread by violence with the victim being lucky not to be eaten.

The question has been raised whether or not Lupin can have any kind of romantic relationship. I see two main possibilities for him. First, there are other werewolves and they should be forming support groups anyway. It would be good for them. Second, we don't know if nonhumans can be infected, although it's a bit hard to imagine Lupin dating a Veela.

Lupin's main weakness is in how passive he can be in dealing with people. The way he didn't stand up to James and Sirius even when he thought what they were doing was wrong, they way he didn't tell Dumbledore about Sirius being an animagus even when Harry's life was believed to be in danger, and also the way he simply quit his job at Hogwarts rather than deal with it after people knew he was a werewolf (unlike Hagrid who went through the same trouble when it came out he was half giant [after OotP, I think Lupin's claim that he's leaving because he feels he's a danger to the students is a rationalization]).

I doubt that Lupin's lycanthropy is meant to line up to any specific illness, but it is a nice comparison. What would be interesting IMO is if Rowling had a small progression of attitude towards what we have now, something to match the "let's not offend anyone" set, but... That has nothing to do with anything.

I don't think there's much doubt that Lupin is passive. Generally he's quiet and doesn't do what he ought to do because doesn't want to make people angry/upset/disappointed with him (James and Sirius and later Dumbledore), doesn't want to be pushy (his not-really relationship with Harry), doesn't want to hurt anyone (possibly leaving Hogwarts), doesn't want to make and constantly have people uncomfortable/aggravated/afraid of him (also leaving Hogwarts) and generally doesn't want to bother anyone. (For the record, on Lupin leaving Hogwarts, I don't think the student's safety was justification as much as a second reason for him to leave; I think it fits in, if the other is bigger).

Cod Squad ! Cod Squad !! Cod Squad !! Look out Joanne here we come !

Help everybody !!I Dont know how to get a signature. Really,i haven't a clue.
Sorry, this is really of topic. Cod Squad 4 ever !

Though JKR has said that lycanthropy is a metphor for chronic illness and disability, I wouldn't equate it with any particular one. It just seems better for it to represent them in general; also, it's spread in a rather unusual way compared to a lot of real diseases.
I really admire JKR for creating such a subtle but strong metaphor. It's an analogy to real life which, while not overdone, is certainly powerful and memorable.

Yes, Lupin is certainly passive. It's strange, whenever I read a story about someone who takes a passive, hesitant, uncertain, I-don't-dare-hurt-anyone attitude towards life, I imagine them a lot like the way I imagine Lupin. That's not entirely fair, but his character is just so well-written that it has repercussions in a lot of what I think when I read other things.
I agree that his leaving Hogwarts seemed to be only a justification of some greater reason.

And Livypotter11--click on "User CP" at the top of the screen. Then go to "Signature", and you can make one there. And try not to double-post; you can change a post you already made by clicking on the "edit" button. :)

Though JKR has said that lycanthropy is a metphor for chronic illness and disability, I wouldn't equate it with any particular one. It just seems better for it to represent them in general; also, it's spread in a rather unusual way compared to a lot of real diseases.


Actually, teeth can be used in fiction to suggest, er, other kinds of penetration. Such is the case with vampires, especially the sexy Count Dracula.

So that leaves us with a certain kind of diseases.

Anyway, I think AIDS and HIV is the one with the most connections that is frequently put to the public eye.

EDIT: sorry for this vein of conversation, I think I should stop before I get ahead of myself. This might not be seen as entirely family-friendly.

I see your point, Cat, but I still don't think that's how JKR meant it...
Shall I change the subject? :)

This has probably been discussed somewhere back in the thread, but how do you see Lupin and Snape in the future? Lupin has shown less animosity towards him than Sirius did, but there still seems to be some bad blood between them. As has been said, Lupin is probably not going to start a fight with him over the Occlumency lessons, but it's not impossible that there still may be a falling-out over something else.
I don't think they'll ever consider each other friends (:lol: I don't want that to happen!) but it would be interesting to see the old grudge between Snape and the Marauders laid to rest. Two are dead, one gone to the dark side, and the most neutral (at least, the one who was least involved with toturing Snape in the school days) is left. The grudge is almost already gone, since there's really only one Marauder left to hold it against, but it would be nice to see those two somehow come to terms with each other.

It would be nice to see Snape and the last Maurader make some sort of peace. And perhaps Lupin is the one who could accomplish this.
I don't see them ever being best friends, but at least they could be civil with each other.
I imagine that Snape will always hold a grudge against the mauraders but maybe he could get past it now.

And I don't ever see Snape being able toseparate Lupin's personality from his condition.

I tend to think the best we'll see between Snape and Lupin is them being polite and civilised to each other, but we already have in PoA really.

I really love both these characters, and in a lot of ways they are opposites of the same coin to each other. They have both been shunned by society, made outcasts simply because of who they are, but made their own group of friends and grew up stronger because of it. Snape, however, is embittered and nasty. Lupin is somehow sweet and good natured. They show the difference between the choices you make and the path you choose to take.

They show the difference between the choices you make and the path you choose to take.

I think you said the same thing twice, but I know what you mean!

I'd like to see Lupin make Snape thoroughly ashamed of himself for not bearing his crosses with dignity, but I suppose you can balance Lupin's own weaknesses against Snape's. At least Lupin is willing to acknowledge his own flaws, while Snape just stews in his own juice.

And I don't ever see Snape being able to separate Lupin's personality from his condition.

I agree with this, unfortunately, judging by Snape's attitude to Lupin in POA. Snape confirms later that the main reason he hates Lupin is for the prank which was really nothing to do with him.

I really love both these characters, and in a lot of ways they are opposites of the same coin to each other.
That's a really good point. It's it's interesting, the way Lupin, if he had chosen it, could have turned out like a some less likeable characters--Snape is one. They had both been somewhat ostracized at points in their life. Lupin became, well, sweet after all his trials, while Snape chose to brood over things and become one of the most bitter characters in the series.
Also, as was pointed out on a previous page, Lupin could have turned out like Wormtail. They were in similar postions at school, compared to James and Sirius.
He's really had a lot of opportunities to go bad, but through his choices he admirably has maintained his dignity, self-respect, and good will.

Anyway, back to him and Snape. Jordmundt6 is right, Snape is unwilling to separate Lupin's personality from his lycanthropy--so far, at least. They do treat each other in a carefully civil way... I doubt thet could ever really be friends, but still it woud be nice if there could be some sort of truce between Snape and what's left of the Marauders.

By the way, to join the Cod Squad and the Big Squishy Group Hug Society, you just have to put it in your sig right?

Making choices and choosing a set path aren't the same thing but my wording was atrocious, sorry Puffskein.

I'm glad you agree with me. Parallels between Lupin and Peter are interesting too. Hmmm...

Lupin's main weakness is in how passive he can be in dealing with people. The way he didn't stand up to James and Sirius even when he thought what they were doing was wrong, they way he didn't tell Dumbledore about Sirius being an animagus even when Harry's life was believed to be in danger, and also the way he simply quit his job at Hogwarts rather than deal with it after people knew he was a werewolf (unlike Hagrid who went through the same trouble when it came out he was half giant [after OotP, I think Lupin's claim that he's leaving because he feels he's a danger to the students is a rationalization]).

I see your point regarding the similarities with Hagrid's situation in GoF, but I'm not sure it's exactly an apples-to-apples comparision.

In Hagrid's situation, Dumbledore got a lot of letters of support for Hagrid from parents who remembered Hagrid. Unless the reproductive years of wizards are substantially different from those of muggles, all parents of the current Hogwarts students (except the muggle-borns) would have known Hagrid as the gamekeeper if they went to Hogwarts themselves. They would be aware of Hagrid's "monster fixation", and they would be aware of his loyalty to Dumbledore. They know that DD can deal with Hagrid's "interesting creatures", that Hagrid himself is not intentionally dangerous, and that being half Giant cannot be passed to the students.

Lupin is a different matter. Only the parents who were at school with him would remember him, and they might only remember him as the quiet kid who hung around with the Potter and Black boys who went around hexing people in the halls for years. The parents won't know if Lupin is loyal to DD, and they probably won't care because Lycanthropy CAN be passed to the students.

I can definitely see Lupin deciding to leave because he feared biting the students and subjecting them to the kind of ostracism he's lived with all his life, but I can also see him running away from the coming rejection by all the parents. That's not to say that he didn't have another reason for leaving, though.

As to Lupin getting chummy with Snape, I don't see it. I believe Lupin will do his best to maintain a civil demeanor toward Snape, if for no other reason than to respect Dumbledore's wishes. On the other hand, I think if Snape attacked Harry in some way (not school detention, but something more serious) Lupin would have something to say about it. Lupin tends to take a Dumbledore-esque attitude toward Harry: give/teach him enough to get him started, see how far he can take it on his own, and step in if the situation gets totally out of hand.

Aii I haven't been here in so long! What's goin on now?

Loz--please tell me that's a publicity shot or a cobbling of two shots and not an actual movie still!!:grumble::grumble::grumble: If it is, where'd it come from? Snape's imagination?:grumble:

Ellen--That's not a rationalization. I believe that had that not happened, Lupin would have stuck it out until Dumbledore was forced to ask him to leave. The prejudice is similar, and similarly ridiculous, but Lupin bears up under it just as well as Hagrid and, in fact, chooses to interact with people more. As I said on another thread, his own condition might be what inspired him to study supposedly Dark Creatures and share that knowledge with young wizards and witches as a DADA instructor. Teaching them the beauty of the unfamiliar, how to avoid the dangerous, and differentiate between the dangerous and the harmless would go a long way to gaining acceptance for himself (with the potion of course).

That could be the truth. By teaching kids the truth about creatures, both their good and bad sides, then the kids could eventually become less prejudiced about the creatures. It wouldn't happen over night, nor even in Lupin's lifetime, but eventually, as we are slowly overcoming our prejudices, the wizards could start to overcome theirs towards certain creatures.

Teacing the kids to love a werewolf isn't easy cause of their history

Poor Lupin. Will he ever be accepted by those around him for being just a nice guy? Not fair!

But, like the platitude says "Life isn't fair." I still think it would be nice for him to settle down and have a nice life after this, though. And that's been my theory on Lupin for a little over six months. I started posting it when I first came on this board.

Poor Lupin. Will he ever be accepted by those around him for being just a nice guy? Not fair!

He is, in the Order. None of them seem to mind (except Snape of course). And remember the students (at least in Gryffindor) were miserable when he resigned. It's just the parents that were the problem.

Perhaps the parents never got to know a werewolf. The kids who did get to know one are more open minded.
He might have an easier time of it when those kids grow up.