All about Remus Lupin

All of us Lupin fans are hoping for peace and happieness for him.
You are correct that he was basically accepted by the Order and some of the kids at school
But then there are the Malfoy's type kids. And, as you said, the parents.
How can he be happy if there are so many people out there against him. Who won't allow him to get or keep any decent job. Who won't allow him to form any good relationships with anyone because he has to move on every time someone finds out that he's a werewolf?

Darn those Malfoys ... ruin everything ... hey I got a favour to ask ... does anyone know where this Remus Lupin pc *look at my sig* came from? I want the whole set

There is a radical solution to this problem. Let Harry perform a Homorphous Charm on him after he's transformed. I'm sure Harry has the power for it. It's supposed to completely reverse the effects of Lycanthropy, Lupin would be completely human again and he could settle down and raise a family (well, raise it after the war, huh Remus:D). Maybe even get a steady job as DADA instructor.

I'm going to state a minority view: Lupin was right to resign. (ducks bananas)

Contrary to what some people are implying, he did not resign just because some bigots wanted him to. There's also the fact that he came close to killing or infecting three students and a colleague. Let's face it, that's not a good thing for a teacher to do. Of course he can't help transforming but he can take precautions to avoid putting people in danger, and he neglected his responsibility to do so. Then there's the fact that he didn't tell the school authorities how a convicted murderer was entering the castle. Please note that I do not hold any of this against him (it had to happen for the plot to work, for one thing) but I still view his resignation as a noble act.

Puff--it was horrible, but I do agree with his logic. It just seems he's more responsible than a large majority of the characters we've met thus far in the Potterverse (adults).

I'm going to state a minority view: Lupin was right to resign. (ducks bananas)

Contrary to what some people are implying, he did not resign just because some bigots wanted him to. There's also the fact that he came close to killing or infecting three students and a colleague. Let's face it, that's not a good thing for a teacher to do. Of course he can't help transforming but he can take precautions to avoid putting people in danger, and he neglected his responsibility to do so. Then there's the fact that he didn't tell the school authorities how a convicted murderer was entering the castle. Please note that I do not hold any of this against him (it had to happen for the plot to work, for one thing) but I still view his resignation as a noble act.

I agree that resigning was the right thing to do for safety reasons. It was the only responsible course of action at the time.

I will say, however, that IF Dumbledore wants to bring him back as DADA teacher (I don't think that will happen, by the way), I believe it can be worked out. The last time around the only precaution they took to prevent him attacking anyone was the wolfsbane potion. They had to keep his lycanthropy a secret, so they couldn't make any obvious safety arrangements.

They can do better now because everyone knows Lupin's a werewolf. He should still take the potion (I'll bet Hermione can make it if Snape refuses), but they can add other things. For example, on his furry days they can hold the DADA classes in one of the unused classrooms in the castle (they found one for Firenze in OotP) and seal the DADA corridor to keep people out and Lupin in. I'm sure Dumbledore can manage that. They've got Harry's map, so they can keep a watch on him (surviellance) from a safe distance.

Since he transforms at the full moon, they know in advance when he'll be "ill". They can make arrangements ahead of time for other teachers to cover the classes on those days; they can schedule exams on those days to be proctored by teachers/older students; they can have special practice sessions/meetings with the DA (if it becomes an open-membership club), or Lupin can assign research projects and use the down time for library sessions.

I think that if parents had to choose between Voldemort on the loose and a werewolf in the castle, they'd take the werewolf if they could be assured that sufficient preparation had been made to assure the safety of the students. Once again, I don't believe Lupin will be the next DADA teacher but I do think it could be managed.

So far as I'm concerned, resigning was a) the right thing to do, and b) the only feasible choice in Lupin's eyes. And maybe that was a benefit, in the end...

If Lupin was to be offered the position of DADA professor again - which, like you said, Siriusly_Addicted, is unlikely - there would be problems other than safety... Your assessment on precautions is a good one, but when Lupin's lycanthropy was a secret they had the biggest advantage, that no reckless, silly students would go seeking him out for some bizzare reason. More than that - parents would probably prefer a werewolf teaching with safety precautions to Voldemort being on the loose, but they'd prefer neither either way. Even safety precautions would only do so much against prejudice - with prejudice, it'd be hard to guarantee that there would be no danger. Not to mention that exposing kids to yet another possible danger now that knowledge of Voldemort has spread is probably very far from parents' agendas.

You are right, resigning was the right thing for him to do. It's still hard to take though.
I was glad he was back in tOotP. He seemed different for some reason though. Like he was trying to stay back from Harry and his relationship with Sirius. To leave room for them to develop some sort of bond since, after all, Sirius, was Harry's godfather.
What a nice guy our Lupin is huh?

He is what Harry thought James was, what James may have become. I really can't give him any higher praise than that.

He seemed different for some reason though. Like he was trying to stay back from Harry and his relationship with Sirius. To leave room for them to develop some sort of bond since, after all, Sirius, was Harry's godfather.
What a nice guy our Lupin is huh?

Perhaps, but I got the impression that he was subtly angling after a share of Harry's affection for Sirius - taking a share in Sirius's Christmas present, giving Harry advice, clapping him on the shoulder, etc. He must have felt quite hurt when Harry popped up in the fire asking to speak to Sirius even though Lupin was James's friend too. I hope Harry makes up for that in the next book.

New random topic: I just noticed that Lupin isn't standing with the other Marauders in Moody's Order photo. Was it taken when the others thought Lupin was a spy? Probably not, since it sounds like the suspicion arose near the end of the war after some of the people in the photo were killed. Did Lupin become more independent in the Order? Did he have something going on with Emmeline? Or is it totally meanningless? Hey, random speculation is fun.

That's interesting, Puffskein. I don't think it was because they thought he was spy either. The photo did seem to be taken closer to the beginning of the war...
Something with Emmeline, I don't know... I somehow don't like the idea (heh, I guess I'm jealous:lol: ) but it is possible. They didn't seem unusually friednly with each other in OotP, though of course that was good while after the old photo was taken. Personally, I speculated that there may have been something with Sirius and Dorcas Meadowes (since they were sitting next to each other) but that was only for the purposes of a fanfic. :shrug:
I think it's possible that, at the time, he was more independent in the Order. Or maybe just more independent from the other Marauders.
And maybe Moody wasn't saying the names in the exact order in which the were sitting. He might have sort of been wandering around it--like at the beginning he first points to himself, and then to the people on either side of him.
Still, it doesn't seem like Lupin was near the other Marauders, hmmm...

All the membes of the Order were probably good friends in some way. It's not as if the Marauders (and Lily) just had to sit together on every picture. I know when my class took class photos (except the official ones were noone could decide), everyone just threw themselves down wherever there was room, not bothering about looking around and searching for their best friend. And it was probably something similar here. Lupin felt comfortable with all the others.

All the membes of the Order were probably good friends in some way. It's not as if the Marauders (and Lily) just had to sit together on every picture. I know when my class took class photos (except the official ones were noone could decide), everyone just threw themselves down wherever there was room, not bothering about looking around and searching for their best friend. And it was probably something similar here. Lupin felt comfortable with all the others.
*nods* I've never sat with my best friends in my class pictures, so he could be sitting with them, becuase that's just where he ended up at.

Interesting thought about Lupin not sitting near the maurders in that photo, I wonder if it is because Lupin was never really that close to them.

Perhaps Lupin just hung out with the maurders because it was a case of, your either in or out and if your out thats not a good place to be in.

I mean, he did ignore what the maurders where doing to Snape and that out cry of 'Oh come on Snape have you not got over that, its been...' comment in PoA might have been over dramatised because Sirius Black was there and Lupin did not want to get up Sirius Blacks back and especially not in frount of Harry.

I just got the impression that Lupin never really agreed with what he maurdars where doing but found himself in a position not to join there group.

That's kind of the impression I got from Lupin also. He wanted to be in their group, but didn't necessairly agree with what they did. He didn't go along with it, but he didn't do anything to stop it or change it either, because he didn't want to be outside of the group instead of inside the group.
Kinda like smoking, when all your friends start to smoke, it is hard to say no because you want to fit in.

Feel sorry for the man... Yeah, he lost his friends, but he might be sidin up to Mad-Eye Moody. Or Tonks... :upset:

Plus he has Dumbledore. And the Weasleys too. Not to mention Harry and Co. But I can't see him getting too friendly with Snape.

Plus he has Dumbledore. And the Weasleys too. Not to mention Harry and Co. But I can't see him getting too friendly with Snape.

Well I don't know about never getting friendly with Snape because I think Lupin used to be friendly deep down inside with Snape. The only problem was to be in the crowd or not and at that age you want to be in the crowd not alienated from it.

I think Lupin is actually starting now to only just grow a disliking of Snape.

I think he was friends with James, Sirius and Peter because he thought they were good people to be friends with.

They were.

I know they were bothersome and cruel, but don't forget how they all, with the eventual exception of one, stood by each other. They remained friends with Lupin even after they found out his lunar lupine predicament. I don't think he expected friends like that. He might have been afraid of losing them. So even if he frowned on their behaviour, he put up with it.

I don't think he was a total priss when it came to rule-breaking, anyway. He would slip away from his place of safety as a dangerous beast and have adventures around the grounds with his mates. He loved it. The teachers would have heart attacks if they had found out at the time.

It's quite funny and strange to see his behaviour towards Snape in comparison with Sirius'. He's the only one who has really grown up. Sirius, well he lost a huge bulk of his life, it makes sense for him to have continued acting so young. But what's Snape's excuse? I suppose it torments him so that he could never get over it and never grow out of the 'Snivellus' act. Especially not when his former tormentors were around. All throughout POA he was like a big kid, it was wonderful.

Well I don't know about never getting friendly with Snape because I think Lupin used to be friendly deep down inside with Snape. The only problem was to be in the crowd or not and at that age you want to be in the crowd not alienated from it.
I think Lupin is actually starting now to only just grow a disliking of Snape.
Snape's behaviour is still like an annoyed 15 year old's. Lupin could (probably) understand it when they were 15, but now he probably thinks that Snape is acting pretty immaturely. He's had over half his life to get over it..
I don't think he met Snape at all before he got his job (come to think of it, what was Lupin doing all those years inbetween?), but when he did meet him, and Snape met Sirius, the Snape-Sirius hostility wasn't sad anymore, it was pretty pathetic.

And as Cat said, Sirius has an excuse not to have gotten over it, Snape doesn't. Add that to the fact that Sirius was friends with Lupin at school while Snape wasn't, and you probably get the reason for why Lupin finds Snape so irritating with his comments on Sirius.

All the membes of the Order were probably good friends in some way. It's not as if the Marauders (and Lily) just had to sit together on every picture. I know when my class took class photos (except the official ones were noone could decide), everyone just threw themselves down wherever there was room, not bothering about looking around and searching for their best friend. And it was probably something similar here. Lupin felt comfortable with all the others.

It could be that, but the reason I thought it might be significant is that all the others seemed to be together, and Lupin isn't really the sort of person who you'd expect to make friends easily.

I agree with Cat that Remus was friends with James, Sirius and Peter because he liked them. He didn't like everything they did but he would have died rather than betray them. Remember that we only saw ten minutes of their behaviour in the Pensieve, for goodness sake. You can't judge their whole relationship just on that. I'm sure we'd have a very different view of the Marauders if we saw the scene when they found out Remus's secret, for instance.

We deifinitely can't judge the Marauders--not even just the Marauders as teens--from the Pensieve memory. They were fairly idealized by Harry (and many of us) before that, but the memory dramatically changed that view. And I don't think the change was really that accurate--as Puffskein said, that was only ten minutes. I'm sure it would have seen them very differently is it was, say, the scene where they discover what was wrong with Remus.

And I agree with what Cat said--they reallywere good friends. They (with the exception of Peter) were truly loyal and would have died for each other. I doubt that things like that can be said of Snape, despite the way we now have better understanding of him.

I still think the tale of the Marauders is one of the most wonderful friendship stories I know. James and Sirius were beastly to their enemies, but they were still great to their friends. Of course you could probably say the same for Dudley or Malfoy, but I can't see either of them befriending someone with a stigmatized chronic condition.

I imagine that James and Sirius started out as nice, down-to-earth people, with a bit of Fred-and-George-style mischievous streak. Then they became more and more arrogant as they got the admiration of other students, reaching their worst at about the time of the Pensieve memory. Remus would not have liked them if he'd first met them at that point, but he was stuck with them by then and couldn't make friends with anyone else. More importantly for him, they were the greatest friends he (or possibly any werewolf) ever had. So he excused them to himself just as Cho excused Marietta's betrayal - "Lovely people who made mistakes".

I still think the tale of the Marauders is one of the most wonderful friendship stories I know. James and Sirius were beastly to their enemies, but they were still great to their friends. Of course you could probably say the same for Dudley or Malfoy, but I can't see either of them befriending someone with a stigmatized chronic condition.


Nor, I don't think, would Draco or Dudley die for their friends. Or should I say their entourage?

People choose to forget, after the whole Penseive bit, that bitter and oh so dramatic moment when Sirius protested that James would have died for Peter. They were quite some friends! Peter didn't appreciate what he had.

People always type for the sadness of poor James, who died with his wife and left behind a son. Or poor Sirius, who was falsely accused of something he would never do and sent to a dreaded prison full of misery and madness. But I want to say - poor Remus Lupin! In the space of... one day or two?... he lost them all. In barely the blink of an eye he lost the good friends who made him feel welcome. No more fun and games on the full moon for Mr Moony.

I've always thought that the terrible thing about death is the ones who are left behind.

Anyway, all Remus Lupin could do was cope and get on with his life. He's one tough werewolf.

I feel the same way Cat...poor Remus thought that Sirius had betrayed them, and James and Peter were dead!

I have always felt deep pity for poor Lupin...he has gotten the raw end of every deal...and in a way...he lost Sirius and Peter twice...Sirius ended up dying, and he lost the Memory of who he thought Peter had been.

http://www.gregandmarcy.net/fr.gif

I just know that if he snuffs it (or Snuffles it), I'm going to find where J. K. Rowling lives and attack her about the face with an oversized cod.

I'll be right along with ya!

If Lupin does die it'll practically ruin the entire series... how is Harry supposed to find out more things about his father and mother if both of two sane people close to him die?

I do feel bad for Lupin. He is always getting the bum deals.
He can't let himself feel things emotionally as others do because he knows that he could end up hurting those he cares about or that they will find out about his werewolfism and end up hurting him.
That has to be tough. He has to be hurting inside all the time, not being able to be close to anyone for all this time. Even now, he will have no one he can really be close with. Even if him and Harry do become closer, could he ever feel comfortable allowing himself to feel for Harry?
Poor Lupin. He needs a hug!

I do feel bad for Lupin. He is always getting the bum deals.
He can't let himself feel things emotionally as others do because he knows that he could end up hurting those he cares about or that they will find out about his werewolfism and end up hurting him.
That has to be tough. He has to be hurting inside all the time, not being able to be close to anyone for all this time. Even now, he will have no one he can really be close with. Even if him and Harry do become closer, could he ever feel comfortable allowing himself to feel for Harry?
Poor Lupin. He needs a hug!

I totally agree with what you say, Lupin definetly needs a *hug*. The thing is that he may not get that close to Harry because I fear that Lupin may go out on a whim and find Bellatrix himself. If Bellatrix and Lupin get anywhere near each other, then all hell will break out and I think Lupins cool and calm attitude may be lost in such a confruntation.

Lupin will search out Bellatrix just to help Harry, let alone help himself as he will possibly feel some responcibility for not covering Siriuses back. Lupin will also want to do this for the maurders and will not care whether or not he dies or lives when achieving this goal.

I still think the tale of the Marauders is one of the most wonderful friendship stories I know. James and Sirius were beastly to their enemies, but they were still great to their friends. Of course you could probably say the same for Dudley or Malfoy, but I can't see either of them befriending someone with a stigmatized chronic condition.

I imagine that James and Sirius started out as nice, down-to-earth people, with a bit of Fred-and-George-style mischievous streak. Then they became more and more arrogant as they got the admiration of other students, reaching their worst at about the time of the Pensieve memory. Remus would not have liked them if he'd first met them at that point, but he was stuck with them by then and couldn't make friends with anyone else. More importantly for him, they were the greatest friends he (or possibly any werewolf) ever had. So he excused them to himself just as Cho excused Marietta's betrayal - "Lovely people who made mistakes".

I agree with you,Puff-and the story of the Marauders is also one of the saddest ever-two dead before their time,one a social outcast,and the rat-nuff said.

I agree with you,Puff-and the story of the Marauders is also one of the saddest ever-two dead before their time,one a social outcast,and the rat-nuff said.

Yes it is sad, but it's also a wonderful friendship story, and would be even more wonderful if it weren't for Peter's betrayal. Not only did WPP accept Remus in spite of what he was, they worked for three years in order to help him. After the Pensieve scene everyone seems to be concerned with the life the Marauders made unbearable. While that fact isn't negligible, I have to remind everyone of the life they made bearable.

I think that Harry is going to die in book 7 and Lupin would be left alone if you know what I mean, I also think is kind of the best for Harry to die, maybe he'll be happier that way and he will be back with his family, But deep inside I hope he doesnt die, please don't kill him!!!!!!!!!!!!

I totally agree with what you say, Lupin definetly needs a *hug*. The thing is that he may not get that close to Harry because I fear that Lupin may go out on a whim and find Bellatrix himself. If Bellatrix and Lupin get anywhere near each other, then all hell will break out and I think Lupins cool and calm attitude may be lost in such a confruntation.

Lupin will search out Bellatrix just to help Harry, let alone help himself as he will possibly feel some responcibility for not covering Siriuses back. Lupin will also want to do this for the maurders and will not care whether or not he dies or lives when achieving this goal.

True... I'm sure that even the nicest, most sweet person in the world (like Lupin, I think) would crack and want to get revenge for whoever killed their best friends.

I don't know if Lupin would go after Bellatrix. So far, he doesn't seem like the type to go after someone like that. But then again, this last loss of his is her fault, and it just may be the proverbial straw that breaks the camel's back. I don't know if Lupin will ever find someone he feels comfortable being close with. Because of his slight werewolf problem. Poor Lupin.

True... I'm sure that even the nicest, most sweet person in the world (like Lupin, I think) would crack and want to get revenge for whoever killed their best friends.

Considering what happened with Peter, Lupin would not be inclined towards mercy if he met Bellatrix. Whether he'll go after her is another matter. If he went on a rash revenge mission he'd risk ending up like Sirius, which would be devastating for Harry and not to mention us. I'd rather he made a level-headed decision to remember his friends by supporting Harry and fighting for the common good as best he can.

Considering what happened with Peter, Lupin would not be inclined towards mercy if he met Bellatrix. Whether he'll go after her is another matter. If he went on a rash revenge mission he'd risk ending up like Sirius, which would be devastating for Harry and not to mention us. I'd rather he made a level-headed decision to remember his friends by supporting Harry and fighting for the common good as best he can.

Lupin though does have the tempement of an auror or at least that is what I think he has. He can remain calm in difficult situations, always weighing up the situation rather than rushing in. I think even if Lupin remains calm, he may, due to his nature be abliged to go after Bellatrix, not to kill her but to bring her in and face trial for her crimes. Lupin was the DADA and a very good one at that, so I think it may be only reasonable that Lupin tries to bring in Bellatrix rather than kill her.

That might be Lupins undoing, the fact that he can not kill Bellatrix but still wants justice. Bellatrix would play on this and may defeat Lupin once and for all, with the aid of Peter Pettigrew as well.

Considering what happened with Peter, Lupin would not be inclined towards mercy if he met Bellatrix. Whether he'll go after her is another matter. If he went on a rash revenge mission he'd risk ending up like Sirius, which would be devastating for Harry and not to mention us. I'd rather he made a level-headed decision to remember his friends by supporting Harry and fighting for the common good as best he can.

I agree... I'd prefer it if he didn't try to take revenge. But who knows what he's capable of... but he has enough brains not to do anything.

i personaly don't think lupin will die i mean how many more charicters is she goin to wipe out
if lupin whats to stop her from killing ron or even harry lupin is one of my favorite charicters and thair for it is my strong belefe that he will not DIE:tu:

OF COURSE HE HAS ENOUGH BRAINS FIRST OF ALL ITS
LUPIN WERE TALKIN ABOUT AND SECOND OF ALL WEN
SIRIUS DIED LUPIN BEARLY REACTED HE JUST BOTTELD IT ALL UP

Lupin can keep calm under difficult situations. But keep in mind that he is a werewolf afterall. He does loose control.

Lupin can keep calm under difficult situations. But keep in mind that he is a werewolf afterall. He does loose control.

Exactly and how does he keep control of this problem when the war does start. I mean is Lupin going to be out of the picture for a small period of time during this war or can the werewolf side to him have a purpose too?

I don't know if the werewolf side of him can be useful. I mean, when he becomes a werewolf, he is uncontrollable. Which could come in handy right in the middle of fights but otherwise, logic needs to be used.
And he has to be out of the picture anyway if he takes the potion Snape makes for him. He still transforms into the wolf, but he's not dangerous then. And who knows if Snape will be able to make the potion for him every month? Ingredients might become limited and Snape could become too busy or otherwise unable to make it.

I don't know if the werewolf side of him can be useful. I mean, when he becomes a werewolf, he is uncontrollable. Which could come in handy right in the middle of fights but otherwise, logic needs to be used.
And he has to be out of the picture anyway if he takes the potion Snape makes for him. He still transforms into the wolf, but he's not dangerous then. And who knows if Snape will be able to make the potion for him every month? Ingredients might become limited and Snape could become too busy or otherwise unable to make it.

I was just thinking that about whether the uncontrolable werewolf within Lupin can remember events that have just happened, say over the whole month.

If he can then Bellatrix and Pettigrew might end up face to face with a fully grown werewolf. That is, if the werewolf side to Lupin can remember what happened in the ministry of magic, where Bellatrix kills Sirius Black. I mean Lupin does remember the help Sirius and James gave him when he was a werewolf. So the werewolf might go berserk and seek out Bellatrix. I was wondering whether this could be where the silver hand that Pettigrew was given, might come into play. Where ever Bellatrix is, Pettigrew is normally not that far behind. I can see a possible three way battle between Bellatrix, Pettigrew and the werewolf Lupin being more and more prevalent as the books progress. :)

I would imagine that Lupin would remember, when he is himself. But as a werewolf, he can't even control himself, so I don't imagine he has access to his memories.
But, when he becomes a werewolf, does it help him release all the emotions he has bottled up? Is that why he is such a calm character when he isn't a werewolf?

I would imagine that Lupin would remember, when he is himself. But as a werewolf, he can't even control himself, so I don't imagine he has access to his memories.
But, when he becomes a werewolf, does it help him release all the emotions he has bottled up? Is that why he is such a calm character when he isn't a werewolf?

Very good point :tu: . That could indeed explain why Lupin is a very calm and collective character as he lets his anger all out when he is a werewolf. However, the werewolf would have to remember what it is angry about to let out all that emotion. I do think that the werewolf will be able to remember the loss of a close friend, Sirius Black as both werewolf and Lupin states remember the prescence of that character and no doubt Snape would remind Lupin constantly about the incident. There should be some little in-print left over and what if Lupin makes sure his werewolf side remembers what had happened to Sirius Black, knowing that this loss would enrange the werewolf side of him enough to get revenge back. It is possible that Lupin wants to kill Bellatrix and Pettigrew but he knows he can not be his conscience would get in the way. At the same time though, he knows that the werewolf side of Lupin would and could kill Bellatrix and Pettigrew without even thinking it wrong. So Lupins bottled up anger could get the better of him I think. :)

I imagine it will get the better of him. It's bound to. Bottleing things up is not a good way to deal with things. Eventually, it will let loose and who knows what will happen. Could Lupin become a werewolf out of sheer anger or frustration, or is it only possible for him to become a werewolf on a full moon?

I imagine it will get the better of him. It's bound to. Bottleing things up is not a good way to deal with things. Eventually, it will let loose and who knows what will happen. Could Lupin become a werewolf out of sheer anger or frustration, or is it only possible for him to become a werewolf on a full moon?

I don't know, I think werewolfs can only turn on the full moon and not just out of anger but I am not sure because Lupin is not like ordinary werewolfs, he is a wizard were...

So maybe he can change into a werewolf through shear anger, just as wizards can do uncontrolable magic when enraged.

Werewolfism (is that a word?) is a condition that only happens during the full moon, so I don't think Remus could change into a werewolf when he's angry. A few pages back on this thread I mentioned that Remus is like Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde - calm when he's human, but the complete opposite when he's transformed.

Werewolfism (is that a word?) is a condition that only happens during the full moon, so I don't think Remus could change into a werewolf when he's angry. A few pages back on this thread I mentioned that Remus is like Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde - calm when he's human, but the complete opposite when he's transformed.

Good point hannahstarr.

I do think though that Lupin the werewolf might remember Sirius Black as his animagus and realise that he is dead. Personally I hope he does and goes after Bellatrix for what she did.

The thing that I have always wanted to know, is that, could silver actually harm Lupin while he is not in his werewolf form?

Good question. I don't think it harms you if you're human, but I could be wrong. Anyone have a copy of Fantastic Beasts?

Good question. I don't think it harms you if you're human, but I could be wrong. Anyone have a copy of Fantastic Beasts?

Well I do not know the answer to that at all.

There is something else, that I just read about werewolfs. Apparently in CoS chapter 16, its states that Hagrid raised werewolf cubs but J.K.Rowling stated that it was just a lie made by Tom Riddle. Was it though because we only meet Lupin in PoA and he is a werewolf.

Could Lupin have been one of these werewolf cubs that Hagrid reared and that is why the Hogwarts staff bent over backwards to accept him into Hogwarts and as an employer of the school eventually?

I thought that Lupin got bit as a child. I was under the impression that his family did raise him and try to find cures for his werewolf-ism.
I can imagine Hagrid actually trying to raise werewolf cubs... but wouldn't they only be werewolf cubs during the full moon? Wouldn't they turn back into babies or children once the full moon was done?
I still wonder about Lupin turning into a werewolf when he feels extreme anger, like Jill said, underage wizards, when they feel strong emotions, accidentially do uncontrollable magic....

I thought that Lupin got bit as a child. I was under the impression that his family did raise him and try to find cures for his werewolf-ism.
I can imagine Hagrid actually trying to raise werewolf cubs... but wouldn't they only be werewolf cubs during the full moon? Wouldn't they turn back into babies or children once the full moon was done?
I still wonder about Lupin turning into a werewolf when he feels extreme anger, like Jill said, underage wizards, when they feel strong emotions, accidentially do uncontrollable magic....

Yes, I was also thinking a little more about Hagrid and the way he cares so much for other people and espcially creatures. When you brake down Lupins character and Hagrids, they are not that dis-similar. They both show calmness and compassion beyond what is normally required.

I could be possible that Lupin was bitten as a child but then it does not say how old that child was nor how old the cubs where. I mean what is the length of time denoted to a werewolf being still called a werecub?

This could be one of the relationships that might spring up in the next book. Lupins calmness and consideration could very well have been learnt from Hagrid, if Hagrid did raise him from being a cub.

Lupin states in book 3 that he was bitten as a child.
"I was a very small boy when I received the bite. my parents tried everything, but in those days there was no cure." It's unlikely that he was one of the werewolf cubs.

I think I'll stick by JKR's saying that it was a lie told by Riddle. I can't get past the fact that the werecubs would eventually turn back into babies/children. Then what would Hagrid do with the kids?

Yes, I'm sure Tom Riddle was making up the werewolf cubs story to make Hagrid look bad.

I think I'll stick by JKR's saying that it was a lie told by Riddle. I can't get past the fact that the werecubs would eventually turn back into babies/children. Then what would Hagrid do with the kids?

I never thought about that. Your right, there would be more than just one werewolf roaming around. But then again in ss/ps, Draco states that there are werewolf roaming around in the dark forest and we heard there calls too. So Hagrid could have just let them go free, into the forest when they where old enough too. What if Lupin though, turned out to be the only werecub that came from a wizarding family and had magical powers.

I know it says he was a child but it also states that he was a very small child. If he was so small then perhaps he can not remember when he was exactly bitten. If he could, we would have possibly been given an age. So he could have been too young to know how old he was and also recall how it exactly happened. When reading that passage, Lupin sounded as though he was not entirely sure as to when he was bitten as a very small child. :)

Or maybe he just didn't see the need to go into that much detail.

I still wonder about Lupin turning into a werewolf when he feels extreme anger, like Jill said, underage wizards, when they feel strong emotions, accidentially do uncontrollable magic....

I think he'd just do uncontrollable magic, or just nothing. Perhaps fully trained wizards don't do angry magic, you'd expect Sirius to have done some in the shack.

The werewolf is not a manifestation of Lupin's anger or any other part of his personality, it's a dark force that has infected him. So it's debatable if he could let out his anger in that form. Perhaps it just leaves him too exhausted to be angry. However, wolfsbane potion (as I understand it) lets him keep his own personality, and he might find it easier to express his feelings with the help of claws and big teeth. Or he might prefer to use a wand, who knows? There's an awful lot we don't know about his emotional life. No doubt he has his own ways of coping with his troubles.

Do you think people who have becom werewolf's are able to handle wands? Obviously Lupin can but did he get Ministry approval to do so. Imagine some person who changes into a werewolf and doesn't take Wolfsbane. He's uncontrollable and he might use a wand for destruction. I would think the Ministry places werewolves into some kind of tests to see if they can be trusted with a wand to make no danger to the community and themselves.

I don't know if I understood the-person-whom-Puffskein-quoted correctly, but if I did, well I don't think that werewolves can do magic while in their werewolf form, whether they've taken wolfsbane potion or not. Just like people in their animagi form (probably) can't perform magic.

On the other hand, I've never ever seen Lupin loose his temper, so it'd have to be something very annoying to make him lash out with uncontrolled magic.

Sorry about that last post. I hope this can help you all a little better. I was using the uncontrolled magic as an anology to werewolf transformation or as an aid for Lupin to transform into his werewolf state other than on a full moon.

Lupin hardly ever gets angry and this could be a reason behind it, he dearnt get tempered or he just might change into his werewolf form due to his magical capability.

_[Unicorn]]Do you think people who have becom werewolf's are able to handle wands? Obviously Lupin can but did he get Ministry approval to do so. Imagine some person who changes into a werewolf and doesn't take Wolfsbane. He's uncontrollable and he might use a wand for destruction. I would think the Ministry places werewolves into some kind of tests to see if they can be trusted with a wand to make no danger to the community and themselves.

I don't know if I understood the-person-whom-Puffskein-quoted correctly, but if I did, well I don't think that werewolves can do magic while in their werewolf form, whether they've taken wolfsbane potion or not. Just like people in their animagi form (probably) can't perform magic.

On the other hand, I've never ever seen Lupin loose his temper, so it'd have to be something very annoying to make him lash out with uncontrolled magic.

Both good thoughts, as I was not thinking about uncontrolled magic being done by werewolfs but that is interesting to say the least. It might explain why the wizarding world seem to hate werewolfs and espcially ones who are wizards. Why does the wizarding world fear them and hate them so much, what makes them more fearful than say a dementor. Werewolfs only change on every full moon, they appear to be perfectly alright inbetween, unless there not, unless a wizard that has been bitten can be dangerous at any point and transform into there wereform if there annoyed by something.

The incident with Bellatrix did get to Lupin a little bit and he was really trying hard not to let out emotion both through what we read about Lupins expression and through Harrys distorted view of Lupin at that time. I think if Lupin came across Bellatrix in the middle of his werewolf cycle, then we might see if his temper can get the better of him and perhaps his transformation.

I think people in their animagi form can perform magic, remember Wormtail in ss/ps, when Ron tries to turn his animagi rat form yellow and the spell does not work. Either that is because Wormtail is deflecting the spell with it being such a low level spell or actually it could be because it was not really a rat but a wizard and the spell was directed to the rat. Thats an interesting thought, if its the latter because it would mean that you would have to know that it is a wizard in there animagi form for some specific type of spells to work because you would have to direct the spell to the wizard and not the animagi form.

Anyway back to the issue at hand. I think it will be difficult for us to really know how Lupin will act if confrounted by Bellatrix and whether or not he can spontanously change into his werewolf form. However it would explain why the wizarding world seems to fear Lupin and werewolfs in general if they were capable of doing uncontroled magic, it would make the werewolf a difficult beast to fend off, even for a wizard or a witch.

The Lupin-is-secretely-James-theory sounds like nonsense to me. I would think that if Lupin is James he would try harder to get to know Harry. And JKR said in an interview that Harry would not see his parents alive (in his own time).
If Lupin dies in book 6 or 7, I'll probably throw the book out of the window (and run outside to pick it up again...). Lupin Should Survive!


Remus can't be James---Harry, Ron, Hermione, Sirius and Crookshanks saw him turn werewolf as they came out of the Shrieking Shack in Book 3. Plus, Harry's told that he has a remarkable resembalance to his father, so unless James was a metamorphagus, people would know.

I don't know if I understood the-person-whom-Puffskein-quoted correctly, but if I did, well I don't think that werewolves can do magic while in their werewolf form, whether they've taken wolfsbane potion or not. Just like people in their animagi form (probably) can't perform magic.


I agree with you. When Professor Lupin transformed into the wolf, he became a wild beast. You might as well give a lion or a leopard or a rabid vole a wand and expect them to do magic. There are a lot of magical creatures in the series that possess magical abilities of their own, but it is the human wizard and witch magic that requires a wand.

Lupin also said something on the lines of the Wolfsbane Potion allowing him to retain his human sanity even after he transforms, or at least he becomes tame, so there might be no trace of the Lupin we love in the beast that could even remember how to perform a spell - or, indeed, to speak in human tongue.

For some reason this has made me think of a subject that has in all probabilities been discussed before on this very thread - what would happen to a Muggle who is a bitten by a werewolf one fateful full moon? The Ministry of Magic or its worldwide equivalents would have to track him or her down and let them in on the whole magical thingumabob. For their own safety and the safety of others. The poor sods would have a pretty bad introduction to magic. Imagine it - no longer an ordinary Muggle and not wholly welcome in the magical communities. Perhaps the man in St Mungos was a Muggle by day - not that it really matters or will ever come up. Just one of those half-interesting things.

Would Lupin feel any better after becoming an uncontrolled werewolf? I mean, as a werewolf, he is able to become extremely physical. Would this release of energy, as the werewolf, help Lupin as a human feel any better emotionally? If the werewolf is not able to remember things that happened to him as a human, like Lupin being upset about something, then would the werewolf releasing steam help Lupin as a human to deal with the situation in a more calm fashion?

It might explain why the wizarding world seem to hate werewolfs and espcially ones who are wizards. Why does the wizarding world fear them and hate them so much, what makes them more fearful than say a dementor. Werewolfs only change on every full moon, they appear to be perfectly alright inbetween, unless there not, unless a wizard that has been bitten can be dangerous at any point and transform into there wereform if there annoyed by something.

I think the prejudice is just mistrust - of those who are different. The logic is something like "How can you trust someone who can't even stay human the whole time?". I have a pet theory that many werewolves are rejected by everyone they know and eventually give up trying to prove they're human, since no-one will believe it. Then they become antisocial and don't bother taking care when they transform. That leads to more prejudice which embitters the next generation of werewolves. Lupin is lucky to have lots of people who have faith in his humanity, but he probably feels a constant urge to prove that he's not just a stereotypical werewolf.

Back to a topic from a few posts back - I don't think Hagrid has studied werewolves in great depth (let alone kept them!), since he doesn't know the important fact that they only prey on humans.

Would Lupin feel any better after becoming an uncontrolled werewolf? I mean, as a werewolf, he is able to become extremely physical. Would this release of energy, as the werewolf, help Lupin as a human feel any better emotionally? If the werewolf is not able to remember things that happened to him as a human, like Lupin being upset about something, then would the werewolf releasing steam help Lupin as a human to deal with the situation in a more calm fashion?
I doubt it. To me it feels like Lupin and "the werewolf" are two completely different beings, the only thing they have in common is that they're in the same body, and that Lupin is conscious of the two. But, he has a completely different personality when he's a werewolf - if you could call it personality. He doesn't remember anything from being a human, he's just a wild beast. I don't think he could be letting of steam about things he doesn't even remember.

I doubt it. To me it feels like Lupin and "the werewolf" are two completely different beings, the only thing they have in common is that they're in the same body, and that Lupin is conscious of the two. But, he has a completely different personality when he's a werewolf - if you could call it personality. He doesn't remember anything from being a human, he's just a wild beast. I don't think he could be letting of steam about things he doesn't even remember.

I guess Lupin did say that his friends kept him happy while he was a werewolf. He probably would have stated that his friends the maurders kept the werewolf happy instead if they were not making himself happy.

Good point there and I hope that makes sence, what I just wrote :)

Well, I also think that Lupin should've had more interaction with Harry, and also I'm really curious to know more about him...

I guess Lupin did say that his friends kept him happy while he was a werewolf. He probably would have stated that his friends the maurders kept the werewolf happy instead if they were not making himself happy.

I don't remember if he stated that they kept him happy as such, just that he was less dangerous and his mind was less wolfish. I presume that the company of Animagi had some power to relax some of the mental effect of the transformation (while there were no humans around).

Does this mean that as a werewolf, he is able to remember that his friends are able to become animals and that when those animals are with him, they are his friends?
Because if that is the case, then, perhaps, he IS able to recall some of what his life as a human is like when he is a werewolf.

Does this mean that as a werewolf, he is able to remember that his friends are able to become animals and that when those animals are with him, they are his friends?
Because if that is the case, then, perhaps, he IS able to recall some of what his life as a human is like when he is a werewolf.
I doubt it. If I've interpreted it correctly, werewolves are only dangerous to humans, so the Marauders were relativly safe when they were all animals. I guess that it helped Lupin because he then could be free (more free than in the Shrieking Shack anyway) when he roamed the grounds with the Marauders, and that may have taken away some of his thirst for "humans to bite".

I doubt it. If I've interpreted it correctly, werewolves are only dangerous to humans, so the Marauders were relativly safe when they were all animals. I guess that it helped Lupin because he then could be free (more free than in the Shrieking Shack anyway) when he roamed the grounds with the Marauders, and that may have taken away some of his thirst for "humans to bite".

Yes I think his friends would have taken away that first but there no longer there anymore, so surely the werewolf remembers them enough to wonder where they have gone. Plus we need to remember that Lupin is not just a bitten muggle, he is a wizard so those rules that apply to muggles may not exactly apply to a wizard who has been bitten by a werewolf. Some of the human instinct is imprinted onto the werewolf, the human after transformation does not loose all there human characteristics. They posses the raw wolf and raw human instincts, which is what makes them so dangerous as they are thoughtful and roughless towards there aims and goal. So based upon this, it could be said that a werewolf formed from a wizard may contain some of that raw uncontrolable magic, that a human wild child wizard has in there infancy. It is difficult though because we have nothing to really compair different species being bitten by a werewolf, we only have the human analogy and Lupin is not a muggle but a wizard. So I am unsure either way:)

Does this mean that as a werewolf, he is able to remember that his friends are able to become animals and that when those animals are with him, they are his friends?
Because if that is the case, then, perhaps, he IS able to recall some of what his life as a human is like when he is a werewolf.

I've been mulling over Lupin's words on this subject: "Under their influence, I became less dangerous. My body was still wolfish, but my mind seemed to be less so while I was with them."

I emphasise the "seemed" because it implies that Lupin isn't sure himself what the effect was. That makes me think that he didn't regain anything like normal human thought while with his friends, he just had better self-control so he wasn't chewing up himself or the furniture. He still had the urge to prey on humans though, as shown in POA and in Inkwolf's wonderful picture "Close Call". I think he had some instinctive knowledge that these animals were "friends", but didn't truly realise that they were James, Sirius and Peter. As Doggy said, it was essential that the werewolf didn't "know" that they were actually humans.

It isn't clear whether wolfsbane potion has a similar effect, only stronger so that the human-killing instinct is suppressed, or whether it actually blocks the entire mental effect of the transformation.

I think it blocks the whole mental thing. After all, Lupin says that when he drinks wolfsbane, he becomes a harmless wolf, and curls up on his bed, and I don't think a normal wild wolf would do that if he found himself locked up in a room. He'd probably go a bit wild..

The potion could act as a sedative to make the wolf completely docile. However, Lupin's phrase "I keep my mind" has always made me think that he keeps all his human thought, feelings, personality, etc. But in that case, he's only as harmless as he wants to be... :evil:

The potion could act as a sedative to make the wolf completely docile. However, Lupin's phrase "I keep my mind" has always made me think that he keeps all his human thought, feelings, personality, etc. But in that case, he's only as harmless as he wants to be... :evil:

Perhaps the potion is designed to stop him from doing anything magical at all in his werewolf state. Maybe he needs it not only to calm himself down but to stop himself from using any magic as well.

I just don't understand why the wizarding world is so affraid of what Lupin is. Surely with all there magic they can cope with just a werewolf.

How does Lupin know that he roams the streets instead of staying in the shrieking shack? How does he know how much fun they have together outside of the shack? Does he know at the time what he is doing, when he leaves the shack? He feels guilty about doing it when he is a human, but does he feel guilty as a werewolf?

.I just don't understand why the wizarding world is so affraid of what Lupin is. Surely with all there magic they can cope with just a werewolf.

It's prejudice. Prejudice doesn't have to be rational.

Back to Windstar's question: I'm wondering if, when Lupin's urge to chew himself up was suppressed by having his friends there, he had simple feelings similar to those Sirius had as a dog. So he'd appreciate being "let off the leash" like a dog does, but wouldn't have complex human feelings such as guilt.

It's prejudice. Prejudice doesn't have to be rational.

Back to Windstar's question: I'm wondering if, when Lupin's urge to chew himself up was suppressed by having his friends there, he had simple feelings similar to those Sirius had as a dog. So he'd appreciate being "let off the leash" like a dog does, but wouldn't have complex human feelings such as guilt.

That is true, a werewolf would probably not have such a complex feeling such as guilt but it would feel lose and agression over a mate being killed as animals do. Sirius was killed, therefore the dog that allowed Lupin as a werewolf to be let off the leash is also dead. Dogs and wolfs are known to pine the loss of a member in there pack or family, so it might be possible that Lupin as a werewolf could feel loss and therefore loose his temper in the werewolf form. :)

Good, because that means he does have an outlet for his emotions that he seems to keep in check all of the time. At least he won't be too disturbed in the end if he has a way of letting his emotions out.
That makes me feel better. I like Lupin and wouldn't want him to end up in a mess of emotions for not letting them out.

I have mixed feelings about Rowling's werewolves. Yes, they're a metaphore for victims of prejudice. But I was on the wrong end of a dog attack a few years ago and I have a pretty vivid idea about what a werewolf attack would be like - with the added problem that werewolves are larger and stronger than any real dog in the Muggle world (we all know Sirius is exceptional).

So, on the one hand, I think Rowling wants us to see them as innocent people suffering from other people's prejudices. On the other hand, I don't have to think too hard about what can happen if Lupin forgets to take his medicine before my stomach's in knots.

Then, I get to thinking of how Lupin himself probably became a werewolf. As a young child, he was attacked by what he would have perceived as a deranged animal trying to kill him. This werewolf probably did almost kill him. A large predator that knows what it's doing can do an awful lot of damage in a very small amount of time. I would guess that his parents were the ones who saved him, but they may have had to kill the werewolf attacking him to do it.

I don't know if Rowling's thought of it this way. If she has, then Lupin probably had the most terrifying night of his life, saw his attacker killed, saw his attacker transform back into human shape, and then learned that he was going to become the exact same thing that had nearly killed him - the exact same thing his parents may have killed. It wouldn't be that big a leap for him to half expect them to kill him if he got loose even if he has the kindest, most understanding parents in the world. An adult could make that leap, and he was just a kid. He might even think they should rather than let him attack someone else. Is it any wonder he's quiet and withdrawn?

Dogs and wolfs are known to pine the loss of a member in there pack or family, so it might be possible that Lupin as a werewolf could feel loss and therefore loose his temper in the werewolf form.

Is a werewolf a pack animal, though, or is it just a bundle of killer instinct? The fact that it looks like a wolf doesn't necessarily mean it behaves like one. Of course it may be different with calming measures (Animagi/wolfsbane). I'm sure Lupin has developed his own ways of dealing with his feelings.

I don't think werewolves are pack animals. It seems that they would be loners.
Considering that they are actually humans, then the werewolves would have to know each other before they turn into werewolves wouldn't they. If there were 3-4 or so friends who all happened to be werewolves, then I guess they could be a "pack". I just don't see it happening though. I think of poor Lupin being so alone all the time....

It's a week since anyone wrote about Remus! That's just wrong!

Here's a possible inconsistency I spotted: 15-year-old Remus looks a bit peaky and Harry wonders "Was the full moon approaching?" But judging by POA it looks like he only looks rough after the FM.

I've seen some people on another forum trying to make Lupin look bad for not keeping in touch with Harry after POA. I want to leap to his defence with 3 points:

1) He didn't want to interfere with Harry getting to know his appointed godfather.
2) He felt guilty about his role in Wormtail's escape and didn't want to remind Harry (or himself) of it.
3) It was part of JKR's masterplan that Harry would become overattached to Sirius at the expense of all the other people who care for him. Lupin writing to him would interfere with the development of that relationship.

With Voldemort back and the Ministry in denial, Lupin put his guilty feelings aside since Harry needed all the support he could get. But Lupin's hints were too subtle to make Harry realise that he cared. I really hope the next book sorts that out.

Here's a possible inconsistency I spotted: 15-year-old Remus looks a bit peaky and Harry wonders "Was the full moon approaching?" But judging by POA it looks like he only looks rough after the FM.

Well, it was Hermione who knew all about werewolves, so perhaps Harry just jumped to the conclusion that it must be sometime around full moon, maybe before it seeing as one of the others said something like "I wish it were full moon," implying that they hadn't been adventuring in a while....Or maybe Lupin was worried about it being full moon soon, so was losing sleep or not eating as well - maybe this was right before they were going to play that nasty trick on Snape & he was getting really worried??

Here's a possible inconsistency I spotted: 15-year-old Remus looks a bit peaky and Harry wonders "Was the full moon approaching?" But judging by POA it looks like he only looks rough after the FM.


I don't think it was ever recounted what Professor Lupin looked like just before the full moon, was it? It certainly never said that he looked his best.

Lupin's never "looked his best". Even several weeks before and after a full moon he still looks half-ill and weak. At least that's how I interpreted it. The hardships of being a werewolf probably never quite leave a person. We don't know wha Lupin looked like when young, except for that hour in the pensieve. He may have had one of his good days then, we don't know.

maybe this was right before they were going to play that nasty trick on Snape & he was getting really worried??
Doubt it. Lupin was decidedly worried by the Snape attack, yes, but I doubt it was planned. I think it was just Sirius and James bursting once and for all (?).

Poor Lupin. I hope he feels better in the next book. He has such potential to be a great character.

Poor Lupin. I hope he feels better in the next book. He has such potential to be a great character.

So do I, you know Lupin might loose his temper with Snape in the next book as a direct result of Siriuses death. He will find it difficult to accept Snapes reasons for not helping Harry out with his Occlumency after the penesive episode in Snapes office. I think Lupin might blame Snape for not considering the seriousness of the situation and perhaps for not informing the whole order about what Harry was seeing in his dreams.

Its strange that Dumbledore would tell Snape to keep that too himself but I don't think he did. Snape may just simply have not bother to tell the order or Dumbledore and if this is true Lupin may loose his temper for the first time in the Harry Potter series.

I don't think it was ever recounted what Professor Lupin looked like just before the full moon, was it? It certainly never said that he looked his best.

I was thinking about the Halloween feast the day that Lupin had his potion. Harry was looking at him to see if he'd been poisoned, but "Professor Lupin looked cheerful and as well as he ever did". And that was clearly some point during the week before full moon.

Its strange that Dumbledore would tell Snape to keep that too himself but I don't think he did. Snape may just simply have not bother to tell the order or Dumbledore and if this is true Lupin may loose his temper for the first time in the Harry Potter series.

I think Lupin's probably more the type to get mad at himself for not seeing Snape about it or stressing more to Harry the importance of continuing the lessons. Lupin knows he's going to have to work with him in the OotP and that they're "stronger united than they are weak divided" or whatever DD's quote was. Undoubtably Lupin will be weighed down with grief & guilt & a medly of other emotions, but I don't think he'll be quick to anger, or express it in unconstructive ways.


I was thinking about the Halloween feast the day that Lupin had his potion. Harry was looking at him to see if he'd been poisoned, but "Professor Lupin looked cheerful and as well as he ever did". And that was clearly some point during the week before full moon.

1. "As well as he ever did" doesn't necessarily mean he looked healthy, just that he wasn't looking any more ragged or tired than usual.
2. I think the wolfsbane potion means he doesn't have to worry so much, and also stops a lot of the symptoms that make him look so sickly.

I think Lupin's probably more the type to get mad at himself for not seeing Snape about it or stressing more to Harry the importance of continuing the lessons. Lupin knows he's going to have to work with him in the OotP and that they're "stronger united than they are weak divided" or whatever DD's quote was. Undoubtably Lupin will be weighed down with grief & guilt & a medly of other emotions, but I don't think he'll be quick to anger, or express it in unconstructive ways.

I don't know, I mean he has just watched one of his best friends loose his life and well even Dumbledore hinted that Snape should have kept up his occlumency lesson. I feel that there could be an argument brewing between Lupin and Snape, not so much as a full on slaught but enough to make Snape stop making Lupins Wolfsbane potion or pretending to forget about it. If that happens then there is a good chance that Lupin might show his true colors up to and including the werewolf transformation.

1. "As well as he ever did" doesn't necessarily mean he looked healthy, just that he wasn't looking any more ragged or tired than usual.

This I agree with as he probably is not always upto his full strength really...

2. I think the wolfsbane potion means he doesn't have to worry so much, and also stops a lot of the symptoms that make him look so sickly.

The wolfsbane potion though only lasts for a fixed short length of time and that is during his transformation period. That is why Snape has to keep making him the wolfsbane potion once every month. It does not last the whole month but I think it stated in the book that it just made the transformation period easier to bear.

1. "As well as he ever did" doesn't necessarily mean he looked healthy, just that he wasn't looking any more ragged or tired than usual.

He never looks a picture of health (fan artists take note!) but we'd probably have heard if he looked pale and peaky at the feast. He certainly didn't look well after his "illness". Even with the potion, his transformation tires him out and even makes him lose a bit of weight.

You are right, he never does look "the picture of health".
The first time the kids even see him, on the train, he is tired and run down looking.
Just imagine what Lupin could be if not for the werewolf thing......

Summary of Lupin's state of health:

- On the train: he "looked ill and exhausted" , and "like he could do with some food". The kids even had to check he was still alive! When he wakes up his face is "tired and grey".
- The first lesson (2 or 3 days later): "he looked healthier than he had on the train, as if he had had a few square meals".
- At the Halloween feast (after having the potion): "Professor Lupin looked cheerful and as well as he ever did."
- First lesson back after illness: "His old robes were hanging more loosely on him and there were dark shadows beneath his eyes."
- First lesson after Christmas: "Still looks ill, doesn't he?" says Ron.
- With the Advance Guard: "He looked tired and rather ill". (The phase of the moon may be mentioned in this chapter, can't remember.)
- In the Pensieve memory: "He looked rather pale and peaky."

I don't remember any other references to Lupin's health. In OOTP, I noticed that the moon was mentioned a lot, but it never seemed to be full.

Lupin is bound to become more important in the next book or books. He is the last remaining maurader (at least he is in my book, wormtail doesn't count!) and he is the last connection that Harry has with his father.

Lupin will play an important part in Harry's life. What it will be, that will remain to be seen (or read), but he has to become closer with Harry.

I can't see him totally disappearing from Harry's life. Just because he is a werewolf, he can't disappear in to the fog because he is such an important link to Harry's parents.

I didn't read most of the pages (I'm lazy), so sorry if I'm repeating things people have already said. :)

I do hope Remus will play a larger role in the next two books--JKR has said he'll be back in book seven, but hopefully he won't disappear entirely throughout book six the way he did in GoF. I suppose it's possible he could end up replacing Sirius as Harry's surrogate father, but...I don't know. The image doesn't quite fit, somehow...I don't really think Harry views Remus in the same way he does other parental characters (Sirius, Molly). Then again, I could be wrong. Time will tell. (Hopefully not too much time... :grumble: )

Y'know, ever since Sirius died, I've had this horrible feeling that Remus may end up following him. I hate to even say that, but...I do think it's a possibility. :sad: But I will march on JKR's house if he does! -holds up "PLEASE SPARE REMUS!" banner-

Anywho...er. I had something else I was going to say...oh yeah. I'm hoping that maybe we'll get to see Remus let his emotions out a little more in future books. I doubt we will, but I would love to see him grieving a little over Sirius's death, or maybe even (gasp) lose his temper. It's not good to just bottle everything up inside the way he does, y'know? Although I did love that line when Sirius is talking about Umbridge and her bit of anti-werewolf law: "You should hear Remus talk about her." Sounds like Moony's been venting a little. :D I would love to have seen that...

Okay, anyway. I'm sure this post had a point to it originally, but I've forgotten what that might have been. Sorry for rambling, but...well, he is my favorite character. As you could have guessed. -points at her name- :D

Remus Lupin has a twin brother called Romulus who will play a big role probably in book 6 or 7. This is because JKR generally takes the fates of characters from old legends. There is a certain legend about twin brothers (remus and romulus) who are raised by wolves . (and remus was a werewolf, get the connection?)

Remus Lupin has a twin brother called Romulus who will play a big role probably in book 6 or 7. This is because JKR generally takes the fates of characters from old legends. There is a certain legend about twin brothers (remus and romulus) who are raised by wolves . (and remus was a werewolf, get the connection?)

No, she takes names from old legends (amongst other things). She's never yet given a fate based on a name.

Surely, if Lupin had a twin brother, we would have heard something about him by now. Especially a twin, because twins seem to have a special bond between them.

I don't know if Lupin has any actuall family though. They aren't mentioned at all. I think that if he did have some family out there, they are not close. Either Lupin himself, or they, decided to distance themselves from each other, most likely because of the werewolf thing.

I think that Lupin is definitely a better influence on Harry than Sirius was. Harry with some of Lupin's calmness would be a good thing. More like Dumbledore is I think. I am not sure if I believe that Lupin is James though. Lupin seems to be caring and thoughtful towards everyone, not just Harry. After the OotP Snape scene, I have to wonder about James' disposition. Lupin didn't join in with the picking on Snape but James was right there. If Lupin were James, wouldn't he take any possible opportunity to pick on Snape now?

Ooooh, excellent point windstar...you have me there. Do you think that there is any possibility that (assuming that Lupin is James, for the moment) James may have changed his mind regarding Snape due to the fact that Snape possibly was the spy for Dumbledore who alerted the Order to Voldemort's imminent attack on the Potters? Maybe Lupin/James knows something about Snape's prior activities for the Order which has radically changed his mind. As for Lupin's calmness, and his general kindness, you are totally right, but, well, as dissappointed as I am regarding James and his behavior, perhaps the adult James did calm down...? Harry certainly is not much better in temperament than his father at age 15.

Good point Windstar--but you're assuming that James remained as immature as Sirius did. There's already evidence that James could and tried to mature to impress and win Lily over. The counterfeiting appears to have become genuine as time progressed. I think adult James, though fiery at times, would take very similar views to those that Lupin espouses. And yes, Remus has proved to be a much better influence on Harry than Sirius was.

Good point Windstar--but you're assuming that James remained as immature as Sirius did. There's already evidence that James could and tried to mature to impress and win Lily over. The counterfeiting appears to have become genuine as time progressed. I think adult James, though fiery at times, would take very similar views to those that Lupin espouses. And yes, Remus has proved to be a much better influence on Harry than Sirius was.

I like to think that the adult James would be a perfect mix of the fiery (but righteous) temper of Sirius and the kindness and good counsel of Lupin. (Although I am still hoping for the James/Lupin connection). What do you think?

Your description is pretty much a description of Harry with only a few trimmings. I think we all expected that of James and given Lily's influence on him, it's probably pretty reasonable. But, you have to admit that given what we know now, it's an optimistic picture.

I couldnt agree more! James is still somewhat of an unknown quantity, we only know that most people loved him, we really have no basis other than the opinions of the characters that we love to believe that he was an extraordinarily admirable character.What would be really devastating is to find out that he really was just what Snape keeps proclaiming...

I'm sure we got as close to that as there is in OotP wht Snape's Worst Memory.

I am sure that James did mature with age. He became a husband, a father and a member of the Order. Alot of responsibility. And yes, alot of people did like him and respect him, as they say to Harry.

But, even if he did mature, and he was Lupin, which I doubt, wouldn't he find it hard to not at least pull a good prank or two on Snape considering the way he treats Harry? Something to get his goat? Even if he did "forgive" Snape or whatever, because he was the one that helped Dumbledore and the Order, wouldn't it be hard as a father not to do something to protect or defend your son against the kind of treatment Harry suffers from Snape?

I think one of the main things stopping me from taking that Lupin is Secretly James theory seriously is the fact that Professor Lupin has his own memories. He spoke of being bitten as a small boy, and what his parents went through. I can't actually remember what he said, but I seem to recall that he spoke in heavy tones about the time that dangerous 'trick' was played on Snape at his expense, too. He spoke from the point of view of Lupin, not James. In OOPT he went on to explain his actions when Harry challenged them about the Pensieve bit from Lupin's point of view.

Actually, I'm telling a big fat pie. The main reasons I won't acknowledge this idea is because -

1) If James had swapped his perilous place with a friend, he would have been an evil man.
2) There's been no concrete evidence of it, or that Lupin is any more than what he seems after we discover that he's a werewolf.
3) Mightn't it trivialise death a bit, to have Harry magically reunited with his dead (or 'dead') father? Too much 'Happy Ever After', perhaps?
4) Lupin is a developing character in his own right. Why should he be swapped for James to make the story better?

Now, I freely admit that I have not read my way through all 37 pages of this thread, so maybe this has been said before ... but why would anybody (other than Harry himself, who is understandably biased) want Remus to be James? While the Pensieve scene in OotP did a little to humanize him, James is pretty much a cipher. His job in the series is to be rich, good-looking, popular, athletic, brilliant, dead, and boring. Frankly, the only interesting thing about him is that he had three very intriguing friends. Remus, on the other hand, is one heck of a cool character in his own right.

Besides, it's pretty clear from the Pensieve scene that teenaged-Remus has more or less the same personality as adult-Lupin (apart from a certain lack of self-confidence and authority, which are traits that often don't emerge until later in life), and teenaged-James is a completely different type of person. Unless they switched bodies AND brains, there's just no way this theory holds up.

Windstar--About the pranks--refresh my memory, just whose idea was it to put boggart-Snape in that dress in front of the third-year Gryffindors, including Harry? How lame was his explanation of the "joke parchment"? I also claim there's no evidence of the Lupin is James theory with excellent reasons, but I thought I'd play devil's advocate for a second.

Windstar--About the pranks--refresh my memory, just whose idea was it to put boggart-Snape in that dress in front of the third-year Gryffindors, including Harry? How lame was his explanation of the "joke parchment"? I also claim there's no evidence of the Lupin is James theory with excellent reasons, but I thought I'd play devil's advocate for a second.

That's Lupin being Lupin, not Lupin being James. He was one of the boys that helped to make the Marauder's Map possible - he's bound to be at least slightly impish.

But they would still have very different personalities. Lupin isn't only level-headed and mild - perhaps as a grown up James might be - he's also clearly worn down by spending most of his lifetime as a werewolf. James would still be getting used to it, and he would never have experienced the childhood Lupin had. You can tell that Lupin's had the weight of the moon on his shoulders for a long time. He seems so world weary and, in contradiction to this, he's got a sort of veneer that must be one of the only things stopping the problem from driving him insane. Lupin's character's a well matured wine. Or a cheese. Whichever metaphor you like best. It's not the kind of character somebody who is experiencing life in somebody else's body should have.

He seems so world weary . . .It's not the kind of character somebody who is experiencing life in somebody else's body should have.
Okay, I don't think there's any chance that Lupin is James, but I think you have to admit that someone who has the weight of impersonating another, knowing his son but unable to tell him his father is actually alive, etc., etc., would probably make someone tired and world-weary and bogged down. Right?

Okay, I don't think there's any chance that Lupin is James, but I think you have to admit that someone who has the weight of impersonating another, knowing his son but unable to tell him his father is actually alive, etc., etc., would probably make someone tired and world-weary and bogged down. Right?

No, it would make them frantic, wretched and absolutely crushed. There would be too much to fret about to get bogged down. His pain would be immediate, whereas Lupin's pain extends backwards through time and forwards to all the forseeable future. He'd be aching with melancholic thinguhmajigs, whereas Lupin seems merely sick and tired. Dark misery might be more of a stinger than worldly weariness, but at least it's more interesting.

There's no chance James is Lupin. It would be sickening to Harry and to the readers. It's just a really depressing idea.
Why would someone choose to do that to their son?
I would despise him at any rate.

Don't forget everyone, there's a whole thread devoted to the Lupin=James theory lurking somewhere. For my part, to call the "evidence" that theory's based on tenuous is an overstatement. There's a good argument against it in one of the North Tower columns on Mugglenet. It does assume that adult James would have been just like teenage James, but otherwise it's very solid.

refresh my memory, just whose idea was it to put boggart-Snape in that dress in front of the third-year Gryffindors, including Harry?

I think even most Snape fans now think it's unreasonable to hold the boggart against Lupin. It was nothing to do with him that Neville was frightened of Snape, and Lupin had to suggest a way of making the boggart look silly in order to do his job and teach the spell. He could always have suggested flipping the boggart upside down, but he didn't. I might add that if I found out that a teacher was abusing their authority and terrorising a sensitive child, I'd want to kick their miserable butt, not just put them in a dress!

I thought that the boggart being Snape was Neville's doing. Lupin was just giving Neville something to make him laugh so that the boggart would go away. Sure, he could have come up with something else funny about Snape, but either way, it had to be something funny enough to make everyone laugh right. It wasn't Lupin's fault that Neville's boggart took the form of Snape.

Yes, that explanation of the joke parchment was lame but it worked right?

I understand where you are coming from but I still don't buy that James is Lupin theory though. I agree with the statment about Lupin having his own memories.

The one part that puzzles me is where Lupin goes to put his hand on Harry's shoulder and then he doesn't. Why put that part in the book? What would happen if Lupin did touch Harry? Did he not touch Harry because he was afraid to become close to Harry or have Harry become close to him because of his werewolfism?

Hi!
I just found this forum and read through this whole thread *irghs*
I hope you'll understand me because I'm german and my english is not the best...

For me it is important to recognize, that this "harry vs voldemort"-theme is just a part of the whole story.
Even if harry would kill voldemort in the next book, the wizard-society won't get rid of voldemort's thoughts.
By now we know, that voldemort isn't just a monster - he's a psychopath of course - but he's also head of a racist society, his deatheaters. And I think, this racist society has its sources in the structure of the wizard-society and is much more dangerous than voldemort alone.
There are racist tendencies all over the place and noone seems to be aware of them or care about them.
Wizards are the best of the world, more worth than muggles, squibs, goblins, elves and so on and so on...
and that's it... no reflection about what they're doing, no self-criticism.
But first you have to name a problem, if you want to solve it.
Why don't they dare to say lord voldemorts name? Just because they are afraid of him or because they are afraid of what this name means... dumbledore finally speaks it out: "the fountain we destroyed tonight told a lie. We wizards have mistreated and abused our fellows for too long, and we are now reaping our reward."
that's not just harry's problem. To solve this problem, the whole wizard-society has to change.. and who likes changes? better not to speak about, he? perhaps it isn't there, if you don't speak about it... the best would be not to think about it...

This leads me to remus lupin.
He is the only wizard besides dumbledore and harry who calls lord voldemort by his name.
He is the only wizard, who reflects about what he is doing and he is able to admit what he had done wrong. Feels sirius sorry for what he had done to snape? No, he doesn't. But remus does.
Remus is aware of the problem and of the situation... he is able to understand why people act in certain ways ( also a reason why he acts so calm).
And he is aware of the society-problems. In the beginning of book 5 he sais almost the same as dumbledore does in the end: ( about goblins) " If they're offered the freedoms we've been denying them for centuries they're going to be tempted [ to support voldemort]"

I hope that lupin will play a big role in the next books... but not only to support harry but to open some eyes...

Welcome Impedimenta!
Good thoughts you have.
Lupin is aware. There's no doubt abt that. He has suffered a lot from the prejudice of his society himself.

The one part that puzzles me is where Lupin goes to put his hand on Harry's shoulder and then he doesn't. Why put that part in the book? What would happen if Lupin did touch Harry? Did he not touch Harry because he was afraid to become close to Harry or have Harry become close to him because of his werewolfism?

It could be a bit of werewolf-paranoia but it could just be professionalism. It's not the done thing for teachers to go all touchy-feely on students.

On to something slightly different, a quotation which made me think of Lupin straight away:

There are two possible reactions to social ostracism - either a man emerges determined to be better, purer and kindlier, or he goes bad, challenges the world and does even worse things. This last is by far the commonest reaction to stigma.
- John Steinbeck, Cannery Row

Why did Lupin decide to be good and kindly? I think it's a lot to do with the fact that, up to the first war, he was one lucky werewolf, and he knew it. Having been bitten at a very young age, he must have grown up expecting to get nothing from the world. Even if he had sympathetic parents, they wouldn't have got their hopes up that he might have any kind of normal life. It must have seemed a miracle beyond his wildest dreams that he could go to school and find friends who not only accepted him but went far beyond the call of duty to help him. He was grateful to a fault, and I think also felt (and feels) a constant urge to prove that he's not just a stereotypical werewolf.

Then he left school and was thrown into the first war. If the original Order were as accepting of him as the present one, he could have been very happy - if it weren't for the Death Eaters picking them off. Then he lost all his oldest friends in a few hours. I can't give a very good explanation for how he carried on, except that I hope Dumbledore and the surviving Order members didn't forget about him, and that the dead he had loved never truly left him. Maybe he felt that he owed it to the people - both alive and dead - who believed in his humanity, to carry on proving it. He might have got some drive from the desire for revenge on Sirius.

Now, he has lost Sirius for the second time and, with him, his last living link to a happier past. It's so tragic it's almost ridiculous. Yet in a way he's better off than he was after his previous loss, because now he has more of a purpose in life. He can fight the evil that robbed him of his friends and help to look after Harry as they would have wanted. He is also surrounded by the Order, nearly all of whom not only accept him but respect him, and some of whom he's known for years. I'm sure there's someone who'll give him a shoulder to cry on just like he did for Molly.

Finally, I'm slightly puzzled by the number of people who want to see Lupin "get mad". Have they forgotten that we've already seen him nearly kill Wormtail? I think that's as mad as he ever gets, and as mad as I want him to get - I don't want to see him lose his dignity. There's nothing to say he has to vent his feelings in a big tantrum. His self-control means a lot to him, so I expect he's learned to let go of his feelings more subtly than that.

It could be a bit of werewolf-paranoia but it could just be professionalism. It's not the done thing for teachers to go all touchy-feely on students.

On to something slightly different, a quotation which made me think of Lupin straight away:



Why did Lupin decide to be good and kindly? I think it's a lot to do with the fact that, up to the first war, he was one lucky werewolf, and he knew it. Having been bitten at a very young age, he must have grown up expecting to get nothing from the world. Even if he had sympathetic parents, they wouldn't have got their hopes up that he might have any kind of normal life. It must have seemed a miracle beyond his wildest dreams that he could go to school and find friends who not only accepted him but went far beyond the call of duty to help him. He was grateful to a fault, and I think also felt (and feels) a constant urge to prove that he's not just a stereotypical werewolf.

Then he left school and was thrown into the first war. If the original Order were as accepting of him as the present one, he could have been very happy - if it weren't for the Death Eaters picking them off. Then he lost all his oldest friends in a few hours. I can't give a very good explanation for how he carried on, except that I hope Dumbledore and the surviving Order members didn't forget about him, and that the dead he had loved never truly left him. Maybe he felt that he owed it to the people - both alive and dead - who believed in his humanity, to carry on proving it. He might have got some drive from the desire for revenge on Sirius.

Now, he has lost Sirius for the second time and, with him, his last living link to a happier past. It's so tragic it's almost ridiculous. Yet in a way he's better off than he was after his previous loss, because now he has more of a purpose in life. He can fight the evil that robbed him of his friends and help to look after Harry as they would have wanted. He is also surrounded by the Order, nearly all of whom not only accept him but respect him, and some of whom he's known for years. I'm sure there's someone who'll give him a shoulder to cry on just like he did for Molly.

Finally, I'm slightly puzzled by the number of people who want to see Lupin "get mad". Have they forgotten that we've already seen him nearly kill Wormtail? I think that's as mad as he ever gets, and as mad as I want him to get - I don't want to see him lose his dignity. There's nothing to say he has to vent his feelings in a big tantrum. His self-control means a lot to him, so I expect he's learned to let go of his feelings more subtly than that.



Dont you think Lupin will lose it when he sees Bellatrix? After all she killed the last of his best friends. It'll be good to see Lupin fight Bella.

Honestly, I don't think Lupin will fight Bella. I think Bella will get tag-teamed by Neville Longbottom and Harry Potter, Aurors-in-waiting. I think Remus was kindly for several reasons.

1. It's just his nature to be quiet, sensitive, and understanding. It's just how he is, it probably pre-dated his Hogwarts days, it may even have been what got him bitten in the first place.

2. He has two wonderful friends who accept him for who he is, think it's a great adventure, and show him the possibilities and opportunities opened to him by his condition (the Marauders and their monthly adventures). That experience may be what motivates him to help young people understand Dark Creatures because understanding will produce wariness, not fear.

I just can't picture Lupin fighting Bella. I just can't see him loosing control. Even though she did something terrible, I think that he will have more self control than to go after Bella. Not unless she does something very provoking, would he fight her.
Maybe, as jordmundt6 said, he is a champion of the misunderstood creatures in order to bring enlightenment to other wizards so that some day, more wizards will understand them and him instead of being so fearful and ill informed about them.

I always feel sorry for Lupin. He seems to have had such a hard life. Don't you just want to give him a big hug.

Lupins not the sort of person who would seek someone else to have a fight with them. He is not as reckless as Sirius or Harry. However that's not to say that he is any less brave. I'm just saying that he will deal with his grief more quietly. This was sort of dealt with in the climax of OOTP. While Harry's reaction to Sirius' murder was to want to kill Belletrix and get 'revenge', Lupin accepted that there was nothing that could be done to bring Sirius back, and so didn't feel the need to fight anybody over sirius' death.

Dont you think Lupin will lose it when he sees Bellatrix? After all she killed the last of his best friends. It'll be good to see Lupin fight Bella.

I don't think he'll "lose it" when he sees Bella any more than he "lost it" when he saw Peter. After all, Peter robbed him of more friends than Bella did. Of course, Lupin was ready to kill Peter, so it's possible that he did feel the urge to get revenge and was distracted by something else. The question is whether Lupin is really the vengeful type in himself, or whether JKR made him nearly kill Peter as a plot device to get that life debt going. I think it's clear from POA that she doesn't approve of revenge killing, so I don't want to see any of my favourite characters go that low. It's not whether Bellatrix deserves to die - it's whether Lupin, Harry, Neville or whoever deserve to become killers for her sake.

I always feel sorry for Lupin. He seems to have had such a hard life. Don't you just want to give him a big hug.
Yes, I do. However, Lupin isn't the type of person who wants sympathy that way.

Welcome to CoS, anyway Ellesse! (*hugs*)

I hope Lupin won't fight Bellatrix, and I don't think he will. He seems the sort of person who can control his temper a lot, when things annoy him. After all, he's been meeting injustice everywhere because of being a werewolf, and he must have learned through all of that to control his temper, because:

a. Getting mad at for example the werewolf laws won't get him anywhere
b. Getting angry will just prove to the rest of the world that werewolves are horrible half-humans who can't control themselves, and therefore definately shouldn't have rights.

He's had his whole life to learn it (and he is very mild-mannered). I don't think (nor hope) that his fuse will blow next time he meets Bellatrix Lestrange.

The question is whether Lupin is really the vengeful type in himself, or whether JKR made him nearly kill Peter as a plot device to get that life debt going.

The impression that I got from the end of Prisoner of Azkaban is that Lupin didn't want to kill Peter, but was prepared to, for the sake of Lily and James. Whereas Sirius actually did want to kill Peter, Lupin was going to, but would take no pleasure from it.

I doubt Lupin would have killed Peter as it would be in his human nature at least to have him put on trial in the ministry. Lupin does not appear to be the killing type but more the logical thinker of the group within the order. I think Lupin wanted Harry to know that no matter what the outcome; whether Peter hands himself over quietly or dies attempting to escape; that he was doing this for the best and with very good reason. Lupin also gave Harry some very important background information on Peter's personality and that will come in handy when Harry has to face him in GoF and possibly later on in the series.

It's a shame his werewolfism isn't more like the type found in Terry Pratchett's Discworld Series.

He'd be able to change into a wolf at any time then (although his clothing wouldn't change with him) and he wouldn't suffer from the dementia associated with.

The only catches are the light of the full moon, and staying in wolf form for too long. Besides having to strip before changing.

In the light of the full moon, the were has no choice but to change on the Disc. And if one stays in wolf form for too long, they start to think like a wolf.

But they can do really cool things, like hear colours and see smells.

Yay! This morning's chat gave us a little more "all about Remus Lupin"...his middle name, and his blood purity...potential spoilers if you don't want to know yet...and a definitive answer on his house.

I won't mention it yet for those who haven't read the chat...but here's the link.

http://www.the-leaky-cauldron.org/JKRWorldBookDay2004.html

Yey! And the chat finally proved what i spent about a week arguing on another thread, about what house he was in!

Be cool if we could resurrect this thread, by the way, even if it was only for more crazed pointless Lupin ramblings...

Yey! And the chat finally proved what i spent about a week arguing on another thread, about what house he was in!


I'm glad she put to rest certain "ideas" that have been bandied about. As for their houses, I always believed what she confirmed today.


I know it's so stupid but I'm am soo happy :rotfl: that we finally know what the J. stands for. I want to make a comment here but I'm afraid it might be a spoiler for people who haven't read the chat transcript yet so I'll put it in spoiler quotes:

Personally, I think John is a rather boring middle name. His first name is Remus (so very cool) and his last is Lupin. John just doesn't seem to fit. That's just my opinion. Then again, if he is a half-blood maybe he was deliberately given such a muggle middle name. He might have been named after a muggle relative.

GryffindorKeeper - I agree with your hidden text. That might well be the motive behind it. I'm not sure if we'll ever get the story behind it, but that reason sounds as good as any. :)

Oh, I like the middle name. It's kind of simple but nice.

It's nice to know more things about characters. Even stupid little things that don't really matter. Some people think that questions to the author are only exciting if they're revealing or plot-related, but I think the characters are just as interesting as the plot. Pointless details make you more familar with characters, make them seem more real somehow.

Although, now he's a man with a middle name. We know that he has one Muggle parent. Knowing these things, it's probably going to be more difficult if he decides to die on us. She can't kill off a man whose middle name is John. He's too personal now. Alright, I'm going to freeze the cod to beat her with if the worst should happen (I can't believe I started that... I find it even harder to believe that it caught on!). COD WALLOP!

But at the moment he's alive and well and his middle name is John. Good for him.

Alright, I'm going to freeze the cod to beat her with if the worst should happen (I can't believe I started that... I find it even harder to believe that it caught on!). COD WALLOP!
I know what you mean! You just mentioned beating J.K. Rowling about the face with a cod, or something, and now it's started a big trend! I'm quite proud, because I was the one who named it 'Cod Squad' :D

How do people think he escaped the werewolf, when he got bit? I mean ... getting bitten is getting off lightly, so he must have been able to escape it, to escape being eaten.

Wow, ok... *Breathing*

Remus's middle name is John (apparently) Now look at this that I found

http://www.behindthename.com/cgi-bin/search.cgi?terms=james

English form of the Late Latin Jacomus which was derived from Iakobos, the New Testament Greek form of Ya'aqob (see JACOB). In the New Testament James is an important apostle, the brother of the apostle John. According to the Book of Acts he was beheaded by Herod Agrippa.

Now, does the Herod Agrippa not remind some of Hippogriff? And John and James are brothers. I'm not for a second suggesting that Lupin and James were brothers, but this is a pretty cool find I though!

wow, do you think JKR looks into these things or do you think its a coincidence, after all, James and John are common names. I liked the part of James being Jesus' brother, this could mean Harry has another uncle. ;) ;) ;)

We know that he has one Muggle parent.

No we don't! There's more than one way to be a halfblood (like Seamus or like Harry, to name but two). He could have a Muggleborn magical parent, who wanted him to have a good solid Muggle middle name.

Ah--so we have parallels to the Sons of Thunder do we? Actually that makes sense. James the brother of John, son of Zebedee was one of the first disciples killed. And John went from being a Son of Thunder, to being the Apostle of Love. Parallels to Remus' maturing process---erm...maybe. But Remus always seems quieter than the rest of the gang and supposedly James and Sirius were closer to each other than to Remus. It could be there, but it's a REAL stretch.

Oooh no, a good idea, but overanalysis going on here I think. JKR does take lots of idea from mythology but we've nevr yet seen any biblical parellels, and even if they were there I don't think it would be like that.

Sorry, call me sceptical, but I don't generally go for theories that come from really heavy analysis. I write myself, and that just isn't the kind of thought process I go through. *grins sheepishly* You never know...the day book seven comes out I may be forced to eat my words...

No we don't! There's more than one way to be a halfblood (like Seamus or like Harry, to name but two). He could have a Muggleborn magical parent, who wanted him to have a good solid Muggle middle name.

Oh, yeah, I forgot that Harry was considered halfblood. But I thought Seamus has a Muggle dad, anyway...?

Lupin_Lady, I think you're looking into things WAY too much. I find it quite remarkable that J. K. Rowling picked a very ordinary and common middle name, claiming that it was 'boring', and people still look into it! :lol:

I think John is the best name in the world. Consider all the marvellous people named John. [John Lennon for example.]
I think it's a matter of opinion and not really a clue to anything.

Charlie and Bill are quite ordinary names too but perhaps Arthur wanted his children to have muggle names.
[I'm trying to think of another example.]

Charlie and Bill are quite ordinary names too but perhaps Arthur wanted his children to have muggle names.
[I'm trying to think of another example.]

All the Weasley children have ordinary names. Molly and Arthur do, too. Maybe it's a trendy thing to do.

Dumbledore's middle names, fabulous though they are, aren't particularly remarkable, either.

Draco is the only person currently attending Hogwarts that has a particularly bizarre first name, as far as I can remember...

Harry's name was drab and ordinary by Dursley standards.

Good point.
I can only think of Draco as being unccomon too. Besides the Patils but they aren't of English origin so that doesn't count.

I love Lupin's middle name! I agree with Weatherby, John is a great name, shared by many great people (indeed John Lennon). It suits Lupin. It's a nice gentle sounding name, one of my personal favourites, along with Joe.

Nothing wrong with an ordinary name; after all, just because a person is magical doesn't mean they need an extravagant name. Not in Harry Potter anyway. That's what seperates it from other such titles in the genre. Makes it much more believable (But I'm glad Sirius has such a great outlandish name.)

Perhaps only certain families go for the more bizarre names (the Malfoys) and the down to earth families go for the ordinary names. Lupin was normal once upon a time before being bitten by a werewolf. It's not odd at all to be named John.
And like Weatherby, all of my favorite people are named John (Frusciante, Lennon, Turturro and Malkovich to name some).

Nothing wrong with an ordinary name; after all, just because a person is magical doesn't mean they need an extravagant name.


Of course they don't. That's why it's not remarkable that Lupin should have John as a middle name.

I like the name John, too. I don't think it goes with 'Remus', though. The two together don't exactly flow.

Why am I discussing the name John? :rotfl:

Speaking of characters, and how it's good to look into them without having to be relevant to the plot all the time, (or maybe that's just what I was speaking to my sister about) ... what does everybody think about the circumstances of the time he was bitten by a werewolf? We know he was a young boy and I recall him saying that he was foolhardy. What do you think happens afterwards? Do you change right away, or are you unwell in hospital until the next full moon? What happened to the werewolf that bit him? If it was caught, how did the Ministry deal with it? Do werewolves only attack to bite once and, if not, how did little Lupin get away without being torn to pieces?

The things that will probably never be revealed are the most interesting things, in my opinion.

I can only think of Draco as being unccomon too. Besides the Patils but they aren't of English origin so that doesn't count.

We also have Blaise Zabini, Orla Quirke, Morag McDougal, and Luna Lovegood who are all in school the same time as Harry. I think those are pretty uncommon, but those still only make 5 out of the 30+ students we've heard mentioned.

Maybe it's more traditional for them to get a common name and a wizarding name. Percy (Percival) may be a common name, but his middle name Ignatius isn't common these days. And Ronald Bilius...one common, one uncommon. So Remus John would follow format, just switched.

We also have Blaise Zabini, Orla Quirke, Morag McDougal, and Luna Lovegood who are all in school the same time as Harry.


Luna! How could I forget dear Luna?

By uncommon, I meant the sort Muggles wouldn't have. Blaise, Orla (an Irish name) and Morag are all Muggle names.

Luna is in GINNY's year. {stomps foot} Ya have to wonder why she took the time to name Euan Abercrombie though.

Luna is in GINNY's year. {stomps foot} Ya have to wonder why she took the time to name Euan Abercrombie though.

She took the time to name everybody. I believe she has a sheet with all the students' names on it.

She took the time to name everybody. I believe she has a sheet with all the students' names on it.

Yes. She showed it in the TV program 'Harry Potter and me'.

That's so cool!
And..er...back to Lupin. He is really, one of my favorite characters, after Ron. I like his gentleness and the way he helped Harry so much. I do hope we see more of him. And I think that perhaps JKR WAS thinking of James and John, the disciples, when she wrote that. I dunno, maybe not, but they certainly are close enough to be brothers.

what does everybody think about the circumstances of the time he was bitten by a werewolf? We know he was a young boy and I recall him saying that he was foolhardy. What do you think happens afterwards? Do you change right away, or are you unwell in hospital until the next full moon? What happened to the werewolf that bit him? If it was caught, how did the Ministry deal with it? Do werewolves only attack to bite once and, if not, how did little Lupin get away without being torn to pieces?

Lupin's remark is intriguing. He said "None of this would have happened if I hadn't been bitten...and if I hadn't been so foolhardy". I italicised that "and" because when I first read POA, I assumed he was talking about his perceived foolhardiness in letting his friends become Animagi illegally (which led, eventually, to the business of Peter framing Sirius). But maybe he was saying he was foolhardy to get bitten. I don't think he should beat himself up about that - lots of small boys are foolhardy.

I once wrote a fanfic (before OOTP) about what happened when Remus was bitten. After wrestling with the question of how he got away, I had him bitten on the leg while escaping up a tree. He then managed to pull himself out of the werewolf's reach and sat there until his father came to rescue him. A lot of stories have the bite knock one out cold, but I found it more sinister in a way if it doesn't seem all that serious at first. It also made his parents unsure about what creature did the deed. They took him to a Healer who was unable to heal the bite without leaving a scar - that showed it was done by a dark creature. Then they took him to a lot of wizards who tried to cure him (or claimed to). I made Remus just a bit subdued rather than ill, but that doesn't fit with the chap in St Mungo's who is still green and sickly after two weeks. His parents didn't know for sure that he was a werewolf until he transformed the following full moon (fortunately they thought to lock him up). I didn't actually think about what happened to the one that bit him - I just had it run away.

Lupin's remark is intriguing. He said "None of this would have happened if I hadn't been bitten...and if I hadn't been so foolhardy". I italicised that "and" because when I first read POA, I assumed he was talking about his perceived foolhardiness in letting his friends become Animagi illegally (which led, eventually, to the business of Peter framing Sirius). But maybe he was saying he was foolhardy to get bitten. I don't think he should beat himself up about that - lots of small boys are foolhardy.


Whatever he was saying he was foolhardy about (you're right, though, he did say it in the same breath as the 'bitten' bit), we can safely say that he was more carefree in his younger days, even after he became a werewolf. He did the most unthinkably stupid things (like escaping the Shrieking Shack house) just for a laugh with the others... and no wonder! If you keep a young boy locked up, even just once a month, and tell him it's for his own good, he's bound to want to escape. All he'd really want is to be normal, which is probably the most inaccessible goal of all.

About your fan fiction - writing about the attacker werewolf might have been especially interesting! I would like to read about that. It evokes some deep emotions. How would you feel to wake up in the morning and know that you've ruined the life of a small boy? Why was the werewolf out, I wonder? Had it managed to break free from whatever was restraining it? Or had the person given up and decided to fulfil popular expectations by becoming a wild monster, it being so easy to just stop trying?

The things we'll probably never find out are most interesting indeed!

If you keep a young boy locked up, even just once a month, and tell him it's for his own good, he's bound to want to escape. All he'd really want is to be normal, which is probably the most inaccessible goal of all.

That's so, so true... just look at Harry in POA, and Sirius, who might as well have been a young boy for the emotional development he got.

Sometimes people say things like, "Remus doesn't seem the type to go running off and get bitten". As you pointed out, he did(and to some extent still does) have a mischievous streak. Besides, being bitten was a pretty earth-shattering experience. I imagined him to be a bit of a brat when small. always running off to have fun and never minding anyone else, until he ran into the jaws of doom. Then he became a model child until he met his first friends at school and was encouraged to loosen up again.

Maybe he had heard there was a werewolf about and went out, all adventure and boldness and stupidity, to see if he could find it first. Maybe his mum or dad worked in whatever department it is that would catch an astray werewolf and he was trying to impress them.

Makes as much sense as any other until we find out in the books, and it seems unlikely that that's going to happen.

Why was the werewolf out, I wonder? Had it managed to break free from whatever was restraining it? Or had the person given up and decided to fulfil popular expectations by becoming a wild monster, it being so easy to just stop trying?

I have a pet theory that the latter situation often happens. The popular prejudice creates a vicious cycle. I wonder if there's any significance in the fact that the new werewolf at St Mungo's had no visitors (leaving aside the possibility that he was visited at another time - I'm talking symbolism here). It could be a sign that many werewolves are abandoned by everyone who believes in their humanity, and they end up not bothering to prove it and don't care who they eat or curse. Lupin escaped that with the help of Dumbledore, his friends, and I hope, his family too - it would have been harder to abandon a little boy. I'm still impressed with the fact that he managed not to show bitterness to his wizard-raised pupils whom he knew had probably been infected with prejudice.

Tane, I've read a lot of fanfics where Remus runs into the woods for a dare, but the trouble is that he said he had friends for the first time at Hogwarts. In my story I made him generally fond of running off to the woods, and had sneaked out in the night for the first time.

I want to join the club and the Cod squad.
I will go really mad if JKR kils Lupin. I love the guy.
I cried when Sirius died and I didn't even like him so much. but just because of Harry's grief. But if she kills Lupin.... grrrrrrrr anger.
It has been talking a lot about Harry getting closer to lupin or not.
I think he will. He won't get as close as with Sirius. Cause Sirius was like a big kid and was easier to tell him everything. Especially the naughty things. he even encouraged them. He encouraged harry to go out of the school etc.
On the contary, Harry doesn't tell everything to Lupin, cause he is afraid of letting him down, of not getting to his expectations.
Harry doesn't want to fail Lupin. In POA he was about to tell him about Sirius. how he betrayed his parents. That means that he trusts Lupin and respects him.
But he stoppes because he knows that Lupin woudn't like the idea of Harry getting out of Hogwarts when Sirius had escaped from Azkaban and they thought that he was coming to kill Harry..
Harry obviously is very affected and ashamed when Lupin tells him that he is not paying back the sacrifice of his parents. That he puts himself in danger for cheap tricks.
And Harrys is obviously devasted when he thinks Lupin is a traitor and has helped Sirius. And he is very sad when Lupin leaves.
so he definetily cares for the guy. And moreover respects him a lot and admires him.

Harry won't have with Lupin the same relation he had with Sirius. He will have a more mature one.
Sirius was the one on whose shoulder he was crying. He was the one to whom he turned to every time he had a problem. I don't think that this will happen with Lupin.
I think that harry now knows that he must take care of himself more. On the other hand I think that Lupin will let him take care of himself more. Will encourage such a mature and responsible attitute.
Harry also sees Lupin as a very good teacher, which means a menthor. Couldn't get so close as he was to Sirius.

But I say that they will have a mature relationship. Not the childish one Harry had with Sirius.

I will tell you how I would like to see them getting close.

Somehow Harry is taken to an Order's safe house where he obviously meets Lupin.
Harry is siting alone in some place, avoiding everybody else. Alone with his sadness.
Then Lupin comes and asks Harry in his gentle way at what is he is thinking. If he ia alright.
Harry says he is alright.
Lupin: You know that you can tell me everything, Harry, don't you? Tell me how you feel.
Harry: I feel very well.Very well.
Lupin: Then I will tell you what I feel.
I feel guilty. I feel guilty for not trusting Sirius so many years ago. For thinking like everybody else that he had betrayed James and Lily.
I am thinking that I should have trusted him more.
Maybe if I has trusted him I could have done something to proof that Petigrew was the murderer. Maybe I could have found Peter and proof Sirius's innocence. and then he would have been released from azkaban. And you would have had your godfather all this years next to you. And i would have had my best friend with me. And Sirius woudl have fought Lestrange much better.
I feel guilty for not being able to stopp Sirius from getting to MOM. i feel guilty for not taking care of him in the fight.
He stopps and look at Harry. Harry is avoiding his eyes ,looking stubbornly at the cieling.
And then I feel alone, Lupin continues. I feel alone in the world. I feel that i have lost the past for good. That it's not turning back.
For two years I've had someone next to me again. And now he is gone.
For two years I almost return to the young boy I used to be. The one that laughd much more. The one that had friends. For whom the future was still bright, despite being a werewolf. The boy who didn' have many worries, who was never alone, who was idiot and arrogant and behaving badly sometimes, but who was happy.
I've never felt happy since then. The only moments I felt happiness again were the the moments I spent with you, teaching you, Harry. and the time I spent with Sirius in his house.
We spent hours together, remembering the past, talking about James, and especially about you, Harry.
Sirius loved you a lot. And was very proud of you. Of the boy that you are. Of the man that you will become. We talked about how much James would have been proud of you. And your mother..... can't tell you how proud she would have been.
And now, I am alone again. I fel anger of the destiny, for being so cruel and so unfair.

And then, little,by little Harry turned and looked Lupin in his eyes and saw himself reflected in them. Saw his pain, and his lonelyness, and his guilt.
He felt connected to Lupin as he had never felt it before, with anybody else.
They were bonded for ever through their loneliness, through their pain, through the memory of James and Sirius and Lily. Harry realized that Lupin was alone too. That he too had lost his dearest person in the world. He wasn't alone in his grief. And for the first time since the death of Sirius Harry didn't felt so lonely.
he suddlenly felt that the "ball" that have kept him from breathing properly ever since Sirius' death was begining to melt. His eyes got full with tears. He started to tell Lupin evrything: how he was feeling, how he has felt all his life.
Lupin listened to him and when Harry stopped he took Harrys' hand silently.
They looked at each other.
And Harry felt the bond stronger than ever. There was no need for more words. They understood ecah other.
He wasn't going to be alone ever. he had Lupin.
Harry felt his heart much lighter, felt that the anger has gine away.

But I say that they will have a mature relationship. Not the childish one Harry had with Sirius.


Caring about somebody as though they were family is not childish. But I agree that Lupin is more of a mentor figure, even now. That's not a problem or something that needs to be mended - such people are necessary in your life.

I was worried (by something J. K. Rowling supposedly said) that Lupin might not be in the sixth book. But now I think it's likely that he will be, but probably not as much. Harry's in mourning for Sirius so the beginning of the next book might be based around that. If he's ever in the company of the Order I think they'll all be trying to console him about it and Lupin's the last one alive who knew Sirius best.

I don't think Harry's ever going to pour his soul out to Lupin because he doesn't even pour his soul out to Ron or Hermione. Harry's a bit walled up, and keeps it all in until he mentally explodes. That's probably a side effect from being shut in a cupboard and told never to ask questions. Lupin's probably a bit walled up too, really, but in a different sort of way.

Well, by childish I meant actually a more brotherly relationship.
I think it's very unlikely that Lupin won't appear in book6.
I mean, it will be quite unrealistic for the books and will be totally unrealistic for Lupin.
I mean, it's too late now, in book6, to have well-developed characters not showing up.
Especially one who is member of the Order, taking in consideration that we are at war.
How could JKR justify Lupin's absence, now that there is so little left until the end?
She could do that in book4, because she was in full process of developing the story and the characters. Now she is in full process of finishing the story.
She can't leave a character as dear and in a way important as Lupin, member of the Order and Harry's last connection with his father totally left out in book6.
It will be unrealistic for Lupin's character because by now it it very clear to everybody what a caring and good person he is. It is obvious that he loves Harry very much.
So how could it be true , then, to lupin's character if he didn't appear in book6?
How could he leave Harry totally alone in book6? when he needs Lupin's help more than ever?
I truly hope that Lupin will appear quite a lot in book6. Maybe at the begining, before Hogwarts, and some brief appearences and conversations during the year.

There are several reasons why Harry and Remus couldn't have a relationship like Harry had with Sirius. Lupin has built a palpable wall around himself since he reached adulthood because of his condition. Harry is isolated because of his destiny. These quasi-secrets make them unavoidably dangerous to those close to them. Their response thus far, has been to shield others as much as possible from that danger.

That's just one reason. Others include the original teacher/student nature of their relationship and Lupin's maturity. Also, while Harry was perfectly willing to be sort of combination of himself and James for Sirius (at least up to a point) he now knows more about his father and realizes that he is his own (marked) man.

I believe Harry and Remus wont have a relationship quite as close as His to Sirius Because of 2) things, No one can ever replace Sirius and two my decision on this was because as everyone picked Lupin for his smarts, maturity and his loveable "always the one left behind" bit , no one really realises that he is something of a coward.
I don't want to start any thing about this as its my opinion and all of you that disagree have every right to. Just hear me out first.
When we first meet Lupin we don't know much about him but then we learn from 'Mione that he's a werewolf and also one of the Marauders as well as one of James' best friends. I see where he didn't want to tell Harry he was his fathers' friends because of all the questions and such... But why not tell him that he "knew" his father and other things of that nature
I also feel that my idea is correct if you think back to when Lupin is telling Harry that even though James, Sirius and Peter helped control him as animals , he hated that he was going against DD trust! Why couldn't he explain to DD what they were doing, we all know he has a tendency to "not" see things and look the other way. What I mean by this is they (the marauders) could have easily told DD that they were animagus only for Remus' own good I'm sure he would have looked the other way as it took them a LONG time to master the transformations! Instead it took him 12 years (?) to tell DD when he was resigning from his position as DADA teacher also because he was afraid of the publicity that he would have gotten as being known as a WW... None of the students minded and (well except the Slythies) I'm sure they're parents all being around Remus' age would have remembered him as a quiet smart kid. Im sure they would have looked the other way also for the fact of Wolfsbane potion!!
Lastly, I feel that Lupin was always a pleaser! He was made Prefect but never stopped any of the actions that took place through the Marauders!! I mean i know they are your best friends but there are times that its okay to prank and others that aren't( Snape's memory and the time snape almost dies because of his "curiosity" of the willow and Lupin )
I love Lupin as much as the next girl he's every girls' prince charming but i guess what it really comes down to is that he never really got over being differrent and has really low self esteem. Harry though having similarities to Lupin, needed something to bring him joy and get him upsomething like a brother not a father as Lupin will sort of appear as. While Lupin Im sure can also bring Harry joy , he'd be afraid to do anything as not to get caught!

Sirius' Babi

I disagree, as you probably was expected. Hear me out a little.
Yes, lupin is my favourite character, but I think I am quite objective when it comes to him.

Firts, we talk about 2 different lupin

1. the teen Lupin.
Coward? maybe. He didn't have the courage to confront his friends, because he didn't want to loose them. so, although he didn't agree with their behaviour towards Snape, and regarding other things too, he shut up, he didn't interfere.
Now, this it wrong, but no more wrong than Sirius and James' attitude. They were kinda mean.
All of this may be justified by their age.
Now, Sirius says that Lupin made them feel ashame of their behaviour several times. That means that Lupin did confront them. but confronted them when they were alone. And I think that this shows subtlety , inteligence, and diplomacy more than cowardy. Why? Think about it. Sirius and James are both very proud persons. How would they react if a good friend of them would confront them in front of the whole school? Such confrontation would put them in a very bad light. They would feel betrayed and humiliated. Such, that they wouldn't take so much in consideration what lupin tells them, but more the fact they he did put them in a bad light in front of the whole school. If you are a proud person, you would know, that this would be the first reaction. I know that this would be mine.
In stead, Lupin trys to make them see that they are wrong when they are alone, and his words can reach to them better.
Sirius says that they DID FEEL ASHAME BECAUSE OF lUPIN'S WORDS.
It is also cowardy from Luoin's side, I agree. He doesn't want to loose his friends. But it is also inteligence, and the fact that he doesn't want to put his best friends ina bad light. He did confront them, even if not on that moment.

Now, Sirius' joke with Snape. I find it much worse . he could have killed Snape.
About not telling DD, yes cowardy. But he didn't want to betray his faith in him. He knew it was wrong for him to be released while he was an wolf, and to walk aroung the castle with his friends. Something bad could have happened. This is why he doesn't tell DD. He knew it was wrong ,but he couldn't help doing it. Because the periods when he was a wolf were so bad and he was so alone, that he couldn't stopp his friends from coming to stay with him, and from taking him to a walk.

2. adult Lupin
I don't think he is a coward at all.
He is coward for not telling DD the truth about Sirius being an animagus, but this is all.
Why doesn't he come closer to harry?
I guess because he is Harry's teacher and he must behave as such. He can't take Harry in his arms and give him a hug, as he almost does when Harry tells him about his mother.
He can't stay with him and talk hours and hours about James.
He is suposed to be Harry's teacher.
But he does look after Harry and cares about him a lot.
But you have to think at how lupin's life must have been like all this years. James dead. peter, dead-he thought. Sirius a traitor.
Not a very happy passed to think about.
And probably Lupin has been advised by DD to not say anything. Telling Harry that he was Harry's father friend would mean a lot of questions about James and Sirius. And probably DD and Lupin don't want Harry to ask questions about Sirius. They think he is a traitor and will come after Harry. And they don't want Harry to know too much, cause he would want to go after Sirius.
Probably Lupin thinks that it's his responsability to take care of Sirius.
There are a lot of things that we don't know about Lupin, this is why we find his behaviour strange, sometimes. I hope that JKR plans to tell us more about him and to explain us more about him.

But adult lupin is not a coward. he has a strong will, and everyone listens to him. Even adult Sirius. he is the one who keeps things in control, who prevent conflicts.
A coward man wouldn't do that.
He is much more reserved tha other people because of his condition of werewolf, but he is not a coward.

There are several reasons why Harry and Remus couldn't have a relationship like Harry had with Sirius. Lupin has built a palpable wall around himself since he reached adulthood because of his condition. Harry is isolated because of his destiny. These quasi-secrets make them unavoidably dangerous to those close to them. Their response thus far, has been to shield others as much as possible from that danger.

That's just one reason. Others include the original teacher/student nature of their relationship and Lupin's maturity

I totally agree with you. Totally.
I only hope that they will get much closer. That their isolation, their solitude, the fact that they are ina way separated from the others, will drive them closer.
Not Sirius-Harry relationship, but aclose one.
I guess it all depends on JKR. I think that Lupin is still a very misterious person, and there are still, plenty of things to know about him. But maybe JKR doesn't think so. Maybe she thinks that it's enough what we think about Lupin. maybe she doesn't want hin to get closer to harry. We will have to wait and see.

Lupin doesn't always do the brave thing but he is certainly not a coward. He has shown too much courage - even just by getting through life as a decent person while being a werewolf - for a few measly examples to render those things completely obsolete.

Lots of people have low self esteem and a lot of people bear the flaw of wanting people to like them. If these things make Lupin a coward, then about three quarters of the people you'll ever meet are cowards too. In fact, unless you're really sure that you wouldn't have done the same thing in his place, you're probably a coward too.

I'm not saying he doesn't have flaws. He does have flaws, very small ones when you think about them, but flaws that can nevertheless be disastrous. But because he's otherwise so amicable and reasonable, people have the tendency to blow his flaws and his mistakes well out of proportion in surprise.

only hope that they will get much closer. That their isolation, their solitude, the fact that they are ina way separated from the others, will drive them closer.
Not Sirius-Harry relationship, but aclose one.
In some ways, Sirius and Harry's relationship was a dangerous one--I could site almost all of Book 5. I think Harry and Lupin have the start of a good relationship, but I think it's better that they stay the the kind of relationship that started in Book 3. Closer, but still recognizing the difference in maturity, like Harry has with Dumbledore rather than with Ron.

In some ways, Sirius and Harry's relationship was a dangerous one--I could site almost all of Book 5. I think Harry and Lupin have the start of a good relationship, but I think it's better that they stay the the kind of relationship that started in Book 3. Closer, but still recognizing the difference in maturity, like Harry has with Dumbledore rather than with Ron.

I don't think they should stay the same as they were in the third. For a start, Lupin is no longer Harry's teacher... well, not officially. Also, with all this talk of guadianship, I think the whole Order is basically going to band together and become Harry's guardian now. Whoever said it has to be just one person? :D

Anyway, I don't think Sirius was a bad influence in Harry's life. He had his bad points and his bleeding awful points, but he had his good points too. He gave Harry hope. He also really did fulfil his role - sometimes sensibly. He was Harry's watchdog in a surprisingly literal way. He said and did some things worth remembering fondly, even if many fans only want to remember the bad things. His existence in the series wasn't as some brief dark cloud. UtahMom mentioned Ron and that's exactly what it's like. Ron can be the little devil over Harry's shoulder sometimes, but he still has a worthwhile role in Harry's life. You do need somebody who will say the sensible thing sometimes, but other times you just need somebody to agree with you and encourage you to be naughty :D

Sorry about this rant, it's not directed at anybody, I'm just in a Sirius moment.

Back to Lupin and a lighter subject - I think Professor Trelawney fancied him. Nah, not really, but it makes you think. She was never known to come down to dinner, but she did that year and one of the first things she said was 'Where is dear Professor Lupin?'. Hmm, Sybill? Were you expecting him there, hmmm, hmmmm? Nudge nudge wink.

I love Sirius just as much as the next person--I just think he became a little dangerous while he was locked up in that detested house, encouraging Harry to do dangerous things and becoming angry when Harry didn't want to be reckless. I don't think I expressed myself as clearly as I would have liked. I merely meant that Lupin would be better off staying a father figure rather than putting ages and maturity levels aside and trying to be like Harry and Ron.

Back to Lupin and a lighter subject - I think Professor Trelawney fancied him. Nah, not really, but it makes you think. She was never known to come down to dinner, but she did that year and one of the first things she said was 'Where is dear Professor Lupin?'. Hmm, Sybill? Were you expecting him there, hmmm, hmmmm? Nudge nudge wink.
That would be... interesting. :) Maybe, but I doubt it.

Anyway, I doubt Lupin is the sort of person to have a relationship with anyone. After all, he is a werewolf, and he probably doesn't like the idea of him - a werewolf - being together with someone. He probably finds it a bit unsafe. Or he might worry about his potential girlfriend/wife's status in society of people find out she's dating a werewolf.

Come to that, can Lupin marry? Or have those anti-werewolf laws taken that right away from him too?

Good question. After he forgot to take the potion the night of the Shrieking Shack incident, he seems to be more wary than ever. I don't like to think of Lupin alone the rest of his life. That's just sad. At least he has the Order.

He does appear to be single, or at least he has a wife that doesn't mind him boarding in a school or going off to help with the Order on a regular basis.

But there's probably more to it than being concerned about the big teeth and claws aspect. He likes having friends - obviously - but I think he probably doesn't expect to. He probably wouldn't set out to meet people. It's more about what people think about werewolves than the actual danger of a werewolf, I think.

Anyway, how would you tell the potential love of your life that you're a werewolf? 'Tell me, have you ever met a werewolf? ...Wrong!'. Or perhaps you could go for a more subtle approach. 'About once a month I leave a LOT of hair in the plug hole'.

But there's probably more to it than being concerned about the big teeth and claws aspect. He likes having friends - obviously - but I think he probably doesn't expect to.

I agree. As I've said before in other threads, I think Lupin might well feel that he's lucky enough having friends, and doesn't want to push his luck by trying to go further. I can see him being paranoid about taking a friendship in a romantic direction, and he wouldn't want to try anything with someone he didn't know well until he could be sure that they didn't mind his issues. So I don't see him getting romantic, but I think he doesn't see that as such a bad thing. He's OK as long as he has friends.

So I don't see him getting romantic, but I think he doesn't see that as such a bad thing. He's OK as long as he has friends.

I agree with him, then! A lot of fans have a great complusion to pair everybody up. It's always rather sweet, but I don't think the existence of a ladyfriend in his life is going to stop all Professor Lupin's problems. Actually, friends are probably better. You can have lots of friends (you can have lots of lovers too and I know it's supposed to always be the quiet sort, but somehow I just don't see Lupin as a swinger) and the fact that so many people care about him might eventually convince him that he's likeable, werewolf or not, and he should stop walking on eggshells and start jumping up and down on them. The metaphorcal eggshells, I mean, not the people. If he started jumping up and down on people he'd be considerably less likeable.

What with my general weariness with shipping, I'd be relieved if a major character decided that romance wasn't the most important thing for them. On the other hand, it's a bad thing if Lupin's low self-esteem makes him think he doesn't deserve a relationship that could make him happier. Even if he did want some loving, he couldn't be sure that the person wasn't thinking somewhere deep down, "Eeeew! He goes all furry!" Which must be why so many people wanted to pair him with Sirius, but I don't think they were, and they can't be any more. If Lupin was to hook up with anyone, he'd probably have to find another nice werewolf.

On the other hand, it's a bad thing if Lupin's low self-esteem makes him think he doesn't deserve a relationship that could make him happier.

Yes, but he could get that self-esteem and happiness from a platonic relationship. The man's got loads of friends! I wish I had as many friends and well-wishers as he does.

If Lupin was to hook up with anyone, he'd probably have to find another nice werewolf.

I don't see why. Unless in the fan fiction (I can't see us finding out about Professor Lupin's love life in the books, Harry's not that nosy) Lupin is more at peace with his furry split personality, he's hardly going to find it easy to love somebody who has something that he loathes in himself. Besides, he'll have to accept that other people, even people who aren't werewolves, can be in his company without being frightened of him or whatever. I can't imagine there being that many werewolves in the UK, anyway. There should be a werewolf dateline. A Floo chat up network.

Whoo, I've just noticed that I reply this thread a lot. I like character discussion. I like it a lot more than theory discussion. It's a shame that there aren't more like this.

*pokes head round the door*

Can I come in? First time poster on this thread... *looks around in awe* :lol:

I can't imagine there being that many werewolves in the UK, anyway. There should be a werewolf dateline. A Floo chat up network

:lol: Maybe the Daily Prophet could start a wolfy lonely hearts column: Furry guy seeks werewoman for moonlit strolls...

Think I should go back and actually read some of this thread before trying to make any intelligent sounding posts... :whistle:

LOL Slythy xx

Whoo, I've just noticed that I reply this thread a lot. I like character discussion. I like it a lot more than theory discussion. It's a shame that there aren't more like this.
Actually, broad threads like these are apparently being phased out. :shrug:

Anyone else think that Lupin is too passive?

Anyone else think that Lupin is too passive?

You're not too passive until you're a corpse :D

Anyway, I think it's probably a werewolf thing. Being vehement might be scrutinised in an uncomfortable way. Besides, having a lifestyle like that will either break you or give you a 'That's life' sort of attitude.

I just wondered about his parents since we know he was a half blood. Where are they? We know so much about Sirius's family but none on any of the other Marauders, including James Potter.
Perhaps because Lupin is a half blood, it serves as a greater significance to Harry because he is the same as Harry, knowing what it's like to be a half breed and all. Which is another reason why Harry's so close to Hagrid as well.
I think Lupin in his werewolf form must be the dark side of himself. If ever we'll see him in that form. Interesting how Snape knows how to make a potion to allieviate Lupin's undesirables. Snape is really a great handyman in potions.

I think we'll find out all we need to know. Rowling promised:)
Cat, I agree. It's much nicer to discuss an interesting character than argue over things we don't know anything about yet. It's too bad they might be phasing out general threads.

ICat, I agree. It's much nicer to discuss an interesting character than argue over things we don't know anything about yet. It's too bad they might be phasing out general threads.
Well as long as we discuss Lupin here I hope this thread will be kept. So let's just make sure to keep this thread on-topic. :)

Interesting question GryffindorGr. They seemed to care enough about their son to run around for ages looking for a treatment for werewolf-ry. Or maybe it was just because they were frightened of being bitten themselves.

Personally, I don't think we'll find out much about Lupin's family. He could of course mention them in passing ("my parents worked with...") or something, but I don't think we'll meet them or get any deeper information.

Back to the Lupin-needs-a-girlfriend business; what's to say he doesn't have one already? It's not like he's stepped up and said he doesn't have one. We don't know much about his private life and Harry isn't one to ask.

Unless in the fan fiction Lupin is more at peace with his furry split personality, he's hardly going to find it easy to love somebody who has something that he loathes in himself.

Does he loathe it? It's quite hard to tell. Naturally he hates the whole killer-instinct aspect, but he did say that he spent the best times of his life in wolf form, accompanied and controlled by his friends. Going with the illness/disability metaphor, he'd see it as just something he has to live with - not to be loathed when it's under control, but not to be proud of either.

Besides, he'll have to accept that other people, even people who aren't werewolves, can be in his company without being frightened of him or whatever.

I think he does accept that. He seems able to talk (and joke!) about his condition or be sharp with those who he knows won't start thinking he's a stereotypical werewolf, either because they don't know at all (Harry, when Lupin told him off for sneaking to Hogsmeade) or because they know him well enough as a person (Sirius, the Order members). What I was saying is that Lupin would have trouble being sure that someone isn't judging him for his condition, consciously or not, and once the friendship was close enough for him to be sure, he wouldn't want to risk spoiling it by getting romantic. In any case, I think he's learned to be content with what he's got.

I hope Lupin does get a girlfriend; he needs one after everything he has been through.

I've probably talked about this enough, but I don't think this logic holds out. Romance isn't a magic cure for trauma, sometimes it just makes things worse (look at Harry and Cho). How could having a girlfriend help Lupin more than having friends?

Do you guys really think it's possible for Lupin to have a girlfriend? It sounds rather romantic, in a megla movie kind of way. Just like that recent movie called, "Underworld", where the vampire female falls in love with the werewolf. Very impossible yes but it's a pretty cool storyline with lots of special effects.

I don't know if anyone touched on the subject of "Meloncholy of the soul" which is a strong element for a lycanthropy patient. I've also read that there are drugs that can be "dual capacities" which can cause lycanthropy as well as a drug for it's treatment. So this is rather interesting in that it can cure yet be a cause at the same time. How is that possible? Would this in turn be something what Snape gave Lupin?

Although it would be nice to see Lupin with a girlfriend, I don't see it happening.

He keeps to himself too much. He tries not to get too involved with anyone because of the public opinion of werewolves.

He doesn't want anyone to get hurt in any way, because they know him or are friends with him.

I think this is why he restrains himself from becoming any closer to Harry.

But, after the OotP, Harry needs someone to be there for him. I hope that Lupin steps in.

Rowling hasn't revealed much about professor's personal lives--or anyone else's, for that matter--other than the students' families. She seems to be keeping a pretty tight lid on it. So I'm thinking that the relevant ones will be new revelations in the upcoming books, information that would spoil things at this point. Rowling has already stated that she has a whole history written up on Sirius for reference, but she'll probably never need most of it. I wonder if she has something similar about Lupin and hasn't mentioned it on purpose, or whether it's just not relevant to the story line?
I can't see him being married, at any rate--he's poor as anything and can't keep a job due to his "condition." That's pretty hard on a family. Then there's the fact that Snape's potion seems to be recent, and he's lethal at full moon if he doesn't take it. I wonder if being a werewolf becomes part of of one's genetic code, or if he's able to have children without passing on a horrible malady?

I wonder if being a werewolf becomes part of of one's genetic code, or if he's able to have children without passing on a horrible malady?

According to Fantastic Beasts, humans become werewolves only when bitten, so Lupin would have normal children.


He doesn't want anyone to get hurt in any way, because they know him or are friends with him.

I think this is why he restrains himself from becoming any closer to Harry.

I'm not so sure. He seems quite happy to associate with the Order members, and indeed teach in a school. He didn't want to become closer to Harry in POA because of professionalism and not wanting to look like he was favouring him, and he didn't force himself on Harry in OOTP because Harry was closer to Sirius, but I think Lupin did drop lots of little hints that he wanted Harry to see him as a friend. He's a very subtle character who doesn't like to force himself on people, but that's not necessarily because he's a werewolf.

He didn't want to become closer to Harry in POA because of professionalism and not wanting to look like he was favouring him, and he didn't force himself on Harry in OOTP because Harry was closer to Sirius, but I think Lupin did drop lots of little hints that he wanted Harry to see him as a friend. He's a very subtle character who doesn't like to force himself on people, but that's not necessarily because he's a werewolf.


I think you are very right.
I think that the reason he didn't get closer to Harry in POA was because of his professionalism. Lupin was harry's teacher, so he had to behave as such.
i don't think that the reason he didn't get very close to Harry was the fact that he is a werewolf. He is more reserved because of his condition, but he obviously cares a lot about Harry.
I like the way Lupin shakes Harry's hand every time they see each other, and the way lupin look very carefully and attentive at harry every time they meet. Lupin knows people very well. And I love the way he loks at Harry, trying to read his mind, trying to find out what is goind on in there so that he can be able to help Harry and know if Harry is ok.
Just love it.
Especially at the end, when they meet after Sirius's death.
I just love the guy.
I only fear that jKR won't feel the need to tell us more about this character.
Although he is her favourite.
I don't know, I just want to find out much more about Lupin.
What he does for the order. What has he done all these years, since James' death.
What was he in book4.
Does he have any family?
Has he ever been in love? Has he ever had a girlfriend?
There are so many questions about Lupin that need answers.
I love to talk about Lupin. Is there a similar thread about Harry?
I think it would be nice to have a discussion about Harry as human being too.
Can aynone start a thread?

Does he loathe it? It's quite hard to tell. Naturally he hates the whole killer-instinct aspect, but he did say that he spent the best times of his life in wolf form, accompanied and controlled by his friends. Going with the illness/disability metaphor, he'd see it as just something he has to live with - not to be loathed when it's under control, but not to be proud of either.


Alright, it's not the deep, passionate kind of loathing that plagues fan fiction and other kinds of bad writing, but he does seem disquieted by it. Or maybe just quieted by it. When he talks about being a werewolf in PoA, he sounds weary and rather ashamed.

He lets other people's thoughts affect him, so he must be bothered personally by it too. He does just get on with life, but he has to.

Maybe 'loathes' was an over-dramatic word to use, so I'll just say he's far from at ease.

***
I agree that Lupin doesn't need a girlfriend and we, the fans, don't need to know these things anyway. I don't think J. K. Rowling is going to write an epilogue of who ends up with who, and definitely not for minor characters. It's a worthwhile creative exercise to fill in irrelevant details for yourself, but it's not necessary in the books. I mean, should she pair Mad-Eye Moody of with somebody (I say this in the hope and sincerest belief that he doesn't have a wife already) just for the sake of completion?

***
Forgive me, but I'm going to ramble on a little. I just want to say that Professor Lupin is probably the best example of werewolf usage I've ever seen. Originally werewolves were always depicted as mere monsters or demons and that's frankly boring. Then people realised that werewolves were psychological monsters and began to use them to depict all sorts of interesting things - madness, masculine sexuality (Little Red Riding Hood, anyone?), civilisation regressing to the chaos of the wild, etc. These things are all quite interesting, but never before have I seen a werewolf used so cleverly in symbolism as Professor Lupin is. He's a very original character, or at least there aren't many of him.

And I love the way he loks at Harry, trying to read his mind, trying to find out what is goind on in there so that he can be able to help Harry and know if Harry is ok.

I've noticed this about all the adults who really care about Harry--the most obvious, other than Lupin, are Moody (the genuine one of OotP, of course) and Dumbledore. I know the Weasleys and others really care about him, too, but it's this quality of trying to see into his soul that I'm talking about. I think Harry is fortunate to have so many people who really care about him.

I've noticed this about all the adults who really care about Harry--the most obvious, other than Lupin, are Moody (the genuine one of OotP, of course) and Dumbledore. I know the Weasleys and others really care about him, too, but it's this quality of trying to see into his soul that I'm talking about. I think Harry is fortunate to have so many people who really care about him.

I think it's because Lupin, Moody, and DD know Harry's parents personally so therefore they're able to see a "deeper" knowledge and have an affinity with him. The Weasleys do care about him, as much as their own children but they've never known the Potters have they?

Originally Posted by Puffskein
Does he loathe it? It's quite hard to tell. Naturally he hates the whole killer-instinct aspect, but he did say that he spent the best times of his life in wolf form, accompanied and controlled by his friends. Going with the illness/disability metaphor, he'd see it as just something he has to live with - not to be loathed when it's under control, but not to be proud of either.

Maybe in wolf form, he's able to be "freer", do what he pleases.
Sometimes being "fenced" in with your emotions are trying and perhaps being in wolf form makes him feel "alive". Second nature I'd say.
When you're already instilled with the "disease", in the rational form, you're able to maintain the rationality of a man, and it's said it is the same in the form of a wolf, yet more likened to release all the things you're not able to express within a man's form.
They say that lycanthropy has this illness that effects the mental capacities of the brain and degenerates it so perhaps in the form of a wolf, it gives him strength.

Well, and the Weasleys love Harry like their own, but they do have seven of their own, so they're pretty emotionally tied up. Although there are a few moments when Arthur does something similar--the "appraising" thing he does when he tells Harry not to go looking for Black, for example.
Where do you think Lupin lives (or has this already been discussed)? It just occurred to me that now that Sirius is dead, Grimmauld Place may need a full-time resident to keep an eye on things.

Where do you think Lupin lives (or has this already been discussed)? It just occurred to me that now that Sirius is dead, Grimmauld Place may need a full-time resident to keep an eye on things.

It would be great for Lupin to have a big house, just because he deserves one for being shunted out of work, but I'd rather he had a nicer one. Besides, maybe it's a bit urban. If he lived in the countryside somewhere and didn't take his potion during the full moon, and got out into the fresh air, hopefully he might just worry a few sheep.

Good point. We wouldn't want the Order's headquarters to turn into the Shrieking Shack, now, would we?:)

Oh, my goodness, I'd forgotten that about the Weasleys. After Arthur nearly died after that snake attack, and with Percy being--well, Percy, they could use some extra protection, couldn't they? They do have that excellent clock--but they could just bring it with them.
However, at the same time, I have one reservation. The Weasleys have lived in their house for many, many years, and I'm sure they have issues about their personal space, as we all do. But then, if it's just temporary, perhaps they wouldn't mind so much.

I guess I always just assumed that Lupin was a kind of drifter type. Not staying in one place very long because of his "condition". I thought he just traveled from town to town, job to job, staying where ever he could find a place for as long as it was safe for him to stay.
Depending on Sirius's will, if there is such a thing, Grimwald Place would be a good home for Lupin. But hopefully, he wouldn't trash (accidentally of course)it as a werewolf, because it should definitely remain the headquarters for the Order.

wHAT PROFESSION Does Lupin have?
Is he an auror?
Was Sirius an auror?
It anoyed me that Ms. Weasley asked Moody to check if it was a Boggart in the closet. She waited for Moody to appear.
Why couldn' t she entrust this task to Sirius or Lupin?
I know that Moody can see through wood, and it was safer to ask him to check first what was in the closet, but couldn't Lupin or Sirius have done the task very well, too?
So, is Lupin an auror? I don't like to think of him as less skilfull than Tonks or Moody.
As a matter of fact he seems more skilfull than these two.
I mean, in MoM, we don't really know with whom Lupin fought ,but at least he didn't get injured, whearas Moody and Tonks did.

Bu the way, isn't it interesting that Lupin biggest fear is still the moon?
I mean, with all that is happening, he isn't so afraid of him dieing, or of Harry dieing, or of Voldemort. He isn't afraid of the bad things that might happen, as Ms. Weasley is
He is afraid of the moon.
What do you think of this?
What does this mean? if JKR wanted to mean something.

Alright, it's not the deep, passionate kind of loathing that plagues fan fiction and other kinds of bad writing, but he does seem disquieted by it. Or maybe just quieted by it. When he talks about being a werewolf in PoA, he sounds weary and rather ashamed.

I think anyone would be disquieted by having an alter ego which scratched, bit, exhausted and prematurely aged them, never mind what it could do to anyone else. I wouldn't expect Lupin to be bouncing up and down when talking about his condition, though he is able to joke about it in less grave situations. What he was really ashamed of was betraying Dumbledore's trust, which gave him (directly or indirectly) nearly everything good in his life.


Bu the way, isn't it interesting that Lupin biggest fear is still the moon?
I mean, with all that is happening, he isn't so afraid of him dieing, or of Harry dieing, or of Voldemort. He isn't afraid of the bad things that might happen, as Ms. Weasley is
He is afraid of the moon.
What do you think of this?

Lupin's boggart in POA was a clue to him being a werewolf, but by that scene in OOTP we know this, even without having read the other books. Maybe it shows how much of a curse it is, that he can never fear anything more.

I've seen people say that Lupin can't be all that scared of the moon, since he reacts calmly to the boggart, but it seems that boggarts can respond to different types of fear. People like Mrs Weasley, Parvati, Seamus etc are terrified of things that they might never meet, but Lupin's greatest fear is something that happens every month no matter what. He's learned by now that there's no point being terrified of the full moon, but it's still the thing he dreads most.