All about Remus Lupin

It anoyed me that Ms. Weasley asked Moody to check if it was a Boggart in the closet. She waited for Moody to appear.
Why couldn' t she entrust this task to Sirius or Lupin?
I know that Moody can see through wood, and it was safer to ask him to check first what was in the closet, but couldn't Lupin or Sirius have done the task very well, too?
Of course, but technically a very fierce wizard-eating creature could be trapped in the closet. If that was the case, Moody could warn however was going to deal with it, that opening the closet mightn't be a very good idea. Forewarn them.
I'm sure that Lupin and Sirius would be capable of handling almost anything, but just in case you know... :)

Why Lupin's boggart is a full moon.. I don't find it so strange that it isn't of dead friends or something like that. Almost all of the boggart shapes we've seen have been of scary things, not horrible happenings; Ron's spider, the banshee, a severed hand, Snape etc. Only Mrs. Weasley had a boggart that showed what she dreaded to happen the most.

I don't think that Ms. Weasley is afraid of Lupin. On the contrary, I think that she respects and trusts him a lot.
He is the one who calms her every time she is upset. He is the one who makes her stopp crying because of Percy.
Ms. Weasley listens to Lupin a lot.
I mean, she shuts up imediatly when Lupin tells her that she isn't the only one who cares about Harry.
She agrees to let the guys tell Harry part of the truth because Lupin says so.
I think it's amazing how fast Lupin conquerrs people's hearts and gain their trust. I mean, did Ms. Weasley know Lupin from before? She seems to know him from before.
Lupin calls her Molly. This means that they knew each other. but from where and since when?
I don't think she is afraid of lupin transforming into a wolf.
i don't think this is the reason she doesn't ask for Lupin's help.

By the way, I 've read on a thread-I don't know if it was this one- that people were thinking that Lupin doesn't show much grief for Sirius' death.
I think it's wrong. I've just realized something.
At the beginning of OOTP, Harry sees that Lupin has more white hair than the last time he saw Lupin.
At the end of OOTP, at the train station, Lupin is described as a man with white hair.
At least in my language, the way he is described makes me think of a man with completely white hair. How is he described in ypur version?
Now, what could have caused this if not Sirius' s death?
So, it's obvious that he is very shaken because he lost his best friend.

One more thing.
JKR insists a lot on some descriptions.
She continuely describes Harry as resembling his father a lot, but having his mother green eyes. I've never thought that this was a clue for something. But JKR said that this means something and that we will find out what.
Now, another descriptions used very frequently by JKR is the one of Lupin.
He is always described as being very poorly dressed. JKR doesn't say the same thing about the WEasley, although she does say quite often that they are poor and they can't afford things.
But they aren't described as being poorly dressed.
Do you think she does this on purpose? Where is she heading with this?
Is this important? Is this a clue?
Why does she have to say over and over again how poorly dreesd is Lupin.
I mean, from her description Lupin looks more and more like a beggar. Why does she do this?
We know that he is poor, but why dos she make him look so awfull and extremely poor?
This bugs me a lot. And annoys me

Lupin calls her Molly. This means that they knew each other. but from where and since when?
I always thought they got to know each other that summer, through the Order. After all, they lived in the same house, and had done so for at least a month. That must have got them on first-name terms.
Besides, Ron had never met him before PoA (unless he's a remarkable actor) and if Lupin was a "friend of the family" they must have met sometime.

At the beginning of OOTP, Harry sees that Lupin has more white hair than the last time he saw Lupin.
At the end of OOTP, at the train station, Lupin is described as a man with white hair.
At least in my language, the way he is described makes me think of a man with completely white hair. How is he described in ypur version?

I've got the Bloomsbury edition, and it says "..his [Lupin] face pale, his hair greying...", which is basically how he's been described throughout all the books.

Why does she have to say over and over again how poorly dreesd is Lupin.
I mean, from her description Lupin looks more and more like a beggar. Why does she do this?
We know that he is poor, but why dos she make him look so awfull and extremely poor?
This bugs me a lot. And annoys me

I'd say it's to remind us of how badly wizard society (or at least the part of it which could give him paid work) treats him. We don't get this with the Weasleys because they have lots of other little signs that they are poor, and we also get Ron talking about it. Lupin isn't the type to moan about being poor.

I've got the Bloomsbury edition, and it says "..his [Lupin] face pale, his hair greying...", which is basically how he's been described throughout all the books.

I took that to mean that he's going grey, not completely grey yet.

[QUOTE]I've got the Bloomsbury edition, and it says "..his [Lupin] face pale, his hair greying...", which is basically how he's been described throughout all the books.[QUOTE]

In by version it says he has white hair. These tanslations.....
So, his description hasn't changed.

As regard to Molly, yes, I think they didn't know each other from before. Which makes amazing the way she trusts him and listens to him.
This was my opinion too, but while writing my thoughts I remembered how close they were and thought that maybe they knew each other from before.
By the way, do you think that JKR has a purpose when she describes Lupin as being so poor?

As to Lupin's boggart: I didn't say that it's wierd that his Boggart is still the moon.
I was thinking of the significance of his fear. Harry's boggart being a Dementor means that he is afraid of being afraid. Which Lupin think it's wise.
I wonder if Harry's Boggart is still a Dementor, now that he can defeat him quite easily and so many other bad things have happened.
Does he still fear being afraid the most or not?
As to Lupin, he is afraid of what exactly? Of his condition of wolf. Of the pain it implies? Of the danger he is for the rest of the people? Of bitting someone?
I say only that it's interesting that he is still more afraid of becoming a wolf than of anything else: as being killed for example.
For him being a wolf semms more terrible than anything. Totally understandable, of course.
But still, after so many years you expect him to having gotten used to this, and now with the potion and everything, it's easier.
Anyway, this makes me like Lupin even more. Cause he manages to be such a great guy while continuing to suffer a lot because of his condition.

I took that to mean that he's going grey, not completely grey yet.
Which I completely agree with.

About the moon-boggart, I always took the moon as a bit symbolic for his fear. When a boggart shows a person his/her fear, it has to show it even if the fear isn't something tangible. Lupin is afraid of what the full moon brings; him turning into a werewolf, the fact that he'll never be fully accepted, the worry about people around him etc.

Agree. And isn't it interesting that he fears this the most? Not being accepted.
What a great guy he is!

Why does she have to say over and over again how poorly dreesd is Lupin.
I mean, from her description Lupin looks more and more like a beggar. Why does she do this?
We know that he is poor, but why dos she make him look so awfull and extremely poor?
This bugs me a lot. And annoys me

I imagine him looking shabby but not beggar shabby.

And I believe she mentions the state of his clothes so frequently because it emphasises his poverty from being shunned out of work by discrimination. The Weasleys are poor too, like you say, but the poverty of the Weasley's is rural and happy, it doesn't have the bleakness of Professor Lupin's.

About the Boggart: I think the moon is symbolic of everything that it encompasses.

I agree totally with you Cat about the clothes thing. And the moon really shows his fear of what happens when he's a wearwolf, and how it's probably did so much to hurt his life. He's been shunned his whole life and his 3 best friends 2 of which are now dead, and one has done the worst thing possible caused 1 of those deaths, and is continuing his evilness. But Lupin has the Order Members still, but i doubt it's the same as having James and Sirius. I wonder if Lupin ever had a gf or like a close to wife... or anything. poor chap.

Do the Weasleys still fear werewolves after seeing Lupin though because we know in PoA Ron was terrified when he discovered that Lupin was a werewolf. Was Ron's fear of Lupin his own perception or the families view on how they see werewolves overall because I think Mrs Weasley might be afraid of what Lupin is even in OotP.

I always found it kind of interesting in OOTP that Mrs Weasley is so comfortable with Lupin but she still shows a distinct nervousness around the newly bitten werewolf in her husband's ward. Getting to know and trust a werewolf doesn't seem to be enough to remove what has probably been a lifelong fear ingrained by society (though it would be kind of naive to assume all werewolves are nice because you know one nice one - they would vary in personality just as they would as humans and all have their own ways to handle the condition). Unless she just doesn't think about it... :huh:

It looks like Molly knows Lupin well enough as a person to see him just as "Remus", not as "Remus the werewolf".

Here's something rather neat, which might not even be intentional:
The two books Lupin appears in are the ones in which one of the major threats to Harry comes from within himself, triggered by an external force (the Dementors' effect in POA, the mind-connection with Voldemort in OOTP). Lupin, of course, also has a threat within himself which is triggered by an external force. It's not a direct comparison, but I rather like the parallels.

i kinda like remus lupin not b'coz his character is so exciting but it is also the fact that he plays a very important role in PoA and OotP... and not also he's james friend but i really like him and mrs. weasley seems comfortable with him......

Pegasus
I've noticed this about all the adults who really care about Harry--the most obvious, other than Lupin, are Moody (the genuine one of OotP, of course) and Dumbledore. I know the Weasleys and others really care about him, too, but it's this quality of trying to see into his soul that I'm talking about. I think Harry is fortunate to have so many people who really care about him.

Well, yes, but I don't feel it as the same thing.
Moody looks so carefully at Harry because he has been for so many years an Auror that it's in his blood to try to read people and people's mind.
in his job is esential to know these things.
So he does it out of habbit mainly. Let's see what is going on in Potter's mind, now that so many things are happening. What does he think? What does he plan to do?

Dumbledore does it for 2 reasons: firstly because he cares about Harry and wants to know what is going on with him and secondly because he is the head of the good guys and he needs to know what is going on with everybody. And ke nows that harry is very important in the fight between good and evil, that Harry is an important piece in this" game". So DD is aware that he has to protect and guide Harry from the distance. And in order to do this, he needs to read Harry's mind sometimes.

Lupin I feel that does it out of pure affection. It's always: what do you feel Harry? How do you feel?
Not what are you going to do? What are you planing to do?
I feel that Lupin is 100% interested in Harry's feelings, in what is going on in his mind. And I absolutely love it!
There are a lot of people that try to protect and guide and help harry.
But there aren't so many who are so interested in taking care of Harry's heart, in healing his soul.
and Lupin does this. He is interested not only in Harry beind safe and phisicaly well, but also in Harry being happy, being at peace with himself and with the world.
He helps Harry growing stronger and more confident in himself.
I want to see Lupin healing Harry's soul in book6, too.
Let's see how he does it! He seems so good at it.

hi all, i'm a newbie here. just wanted to say how nice it is finding so many people who appreciate the wonderfulness of remus lupin! i've been trying to catch up on this thread (i'm up to page 30 so far) and it's been so nice to find that there are so many of you who appreciate the dear man too. what a guy. *sigh* oh dear, i think i've become a lupin fangirl!

In response to the question earlier about why Mrs. Weasley asks Mad-Eye to look at the boggart: It wasn't an insult to Lupin, Sirius, or anyone else's abilities. Moody has a magical eye that can see through solid surfaces. If there were something bigger than just a boggart, he would know and be able to warn the rest.

In response to the question earlier about why Mrs. Weasley asks Mad-Eye to look at the boggart: It wasn't an insult to Lupin, Sirius, or anyone else's abilities. Moody has a magical eye that can see through solid surfaces. If there were something bigger than just a boggart, he would know and be able to warn the rest.

Forgive my ignorance if I answer this incorrectly (and I apologise for keeping off topic) - but didn't Professor Lupin say in PoA that no-one knew what a Boggart looked like in it's natural form, they only knew it was one when it appeared as it's victims worst fear?

There's a whole thread somewhere about what Moody saw when he looked at the Boggart (sorry I'm no good at linking).

I just want to say that Professor Lupin is probably the best example of werewolf usage I've ever seen. Originally werewolves were always depicted as mere monsters or demons and that's frankly boring. Then people realised that werewolves were psychological monsters and began to use them to depict all sorts of interesting things - madness, masculine sexuality (Little Red Riding Hood, anyone?), civilisation regressing to the chaos of the wild, etc. These things are all quite interesting, but never before have I seen a werewolf used so cleverly in symbolism as Professor Lupin is. He's a very original character, or at least there aren't many of him.

I've noticed that people interpret Lupin's character in quite a few different ways depending on which of those werewolf metaphors they think he represents. Some people talk as if the wolf is a manifestation of his anger or his sex drive or whatever, but judging by the illness/disability metaphor JKR says she's using, we ought to see the wolf as a dark force that has infected him and is nothing to do with his own personality. What has affected his personality is the experience of living and having grown up with this condition and other people's reactions to it. I think that makes him more complex and interesting to analyse than if the wolf was just a bit of his psyche with fur on, which has been done many times.

But there aren't so many who are so interested in taking care of Harry's heart, in healing his soul.
and Lupin does this. He is interested not only in Harry beind safe and phisicaly well, but also in Harry being happy, being at peace with himself and with the world
I agree that Dumbledore has to be concerned with Harry's safety, but I think his interest in Harry goes far beyond that. He told Harry in Book 5 that the reason he wouldn't make eye contact with him is because he didn't want Voldemort to know that Dumbledore and Harry's relationship goes beyond teacher/student. It is because Dumbledore cares about Harry so much that he let his heart get away and waited so long to tell Harry about the great burden that is his. He also said that he didn't make Harry a prefect because he felt like he already had enough to deal with. I really think Dumbledore truly loves Harry, to the point that he doesn't always make the rational decision (as he admitted).
As far as Moody goes, he is a hardened auror, but he's just getting to know Harry, and he's as soft as he knows how to be.
I agree with Lupin's love for Harry--I just don't think he's the only one who feels that way. I think it's great that Harry has such a loving support system, on top of physical protection and mentorship.

I agree that Dumbledore has to be concerned with Harry's safety, but I think his interest in Harry goes far beyond that. He told Harry in Book 5 that the reason he wouldn't make eye contact with him is because he didn't want Voldemort to know that Dumbledore and Harry's relationship goes beyond teacher/student. It is because Dumbledore cares about Harry so much that he let his heart get away and waited so long to tell Harry about the great burden that is his. He also said that he didn't make Harry a prefect because he felt like he already had enough to deal with. I really think Dumbledore truly loves Harry, to the point that he doesn't always make the rational decision (as he admitted).
As far as Moody goes, he is a hardened auror, but he's just getting to know Harry, and he's as soft as he knows how to be.
I agree with Lupin's love for Harry--I just don't think he's the only one who feels that way. I think it's great that Harry has such a loving support system, on top of physical protection and mentorship.

Oh well, maybe I didn't express myself corectly.
I have the impression that I did say that Dumbledore pays so much attention to harry for 2 reasons: 1. affection 2. he is the head of the good guys and Harry is an important piece in the fight against evil.
I did say that DD cares a lot about Harry.
As to Moody, I am sure he cares, in his own way, about Harry too.
What i really want to say is that in Lupin's case I think that it's 100% his concern for Harry's feelings and emotional and phisical health that maykes him try to read harry's mind.
There aren't any other reasons. Just his deep affection for Harry.
Whereas on DD'case there are other reasons besides affection.
I'm not implying that Dd doesn't love Harry very much. he obviously does.
And yes, he makes mistakes because of it. And personally i am still very mad with him because he dodn't tell harry the truth, but this is another topic.

And yes, he makes mistakes because of it. And personally i am still very mad with him because he dodn't tell harry the truth, but this is another topic.
I think there are probably a lot of people who are upset, but as a mother, I understand. No matter what I do, I am going to make mistakes; all I can do is my best, and sometimes my best just isn't good enough.
Anyway.

Forgive my ignorance if I answer this incorrectly (and I apologise for keeping off topic) - but didn't Professor Lupin say in PoA that no-one knew what a Boggart looked like in it's natural form, they only knew it was one when it appeared as it's victims worst fear?
I think you're right. I wonder just what it is that Moody saw? The boggart couldn't have reacted to Moody if it couldn't see him, right? Maybe Lupin just wasn't thinking about aurors at the time. I would be very interested to hear Moody's answer to this.
I definitely think Molly has a good relationship with Lupin--how can she help it? He's as soft with her as he is with Harry.

but judging by the illness/disability metaphor JKR says she's using, we ought to see the wolf as a dark force that has infected him and is nothing to do with his own personality.


I wasn't saying that it means anything but. If you wasn't saying that I was saying that it means anything but, then I agree with you :D.


I don't think we needed J. K.Rowling to tell us the illness connection. Although I suppose that people could interpret is as any kind of discrimination of any downtrodden group. The illness one is far more specific, however.

Forgive my ignorance if I answer this incorrectly (and I apologise for keeping off topic) - but didn't Professor Lupin say in PoA that no-one knew what a Boggart looked like in it's natural form, they only knew it was one when it appeared as it's victims worst fear?

yeah, he did, you're right. but i think he was just teaching them what they'd need to know about boggarts. none of them would ever see one in its natural form, so i imagine he didn't think it would be any use to them to teach them about it. i think it fits in quite well with the way he seems to teach in poa in general, giving them all really useful practical lessons.

I wasn't saying that it means anything but. If you wasn't saying that I was saying that it means anything but, then I agree with you :D.

You agree with me, then. I do remember you talking about a "furry split personality", though, but maybe that was a figure of speech. If the wolf is nothing to do with Lupin as a person, it's no wonder he's disquieted or even disgusted by it.

there was another post in which someone was asking about whether luipin was a chicken

I don't think that he is at all- lots of people hace said that he didn't stick up to his friends but then if he has had a life where people hve judged him because he is a werewolf then he may have been worried that if he did stand up to them then they may dislike him or expose him to his other classmates?

the post also thought he didn't ask snape for harry to have his lessns back because nothinghappened-
i feel that he might have done but then would snape necessarily take orders from lupin- snape dislikes him from his school years and is prejudice towards him because he is a werewolf so he isn't likely to do as lupin says?

I hope that lupin doesn't die because he is a strong but silent character who does have many strengths- lots of them i think will be shown in 6 because he is now the only true marauder left and possibly he will be closer to harry. he is atm one of my fav characters but then i do have many :D

I also think that Lupin is a great character and it would be very sad if he died. I think he could be a real asset to Harry in these last 2 books and also in the rest of his life.

I don't think that he is a chicken for not standing up to his friends. I don't think I would have in his situation. He had to fear being exposed or putting himself in the limelight where people would become suspicious of him. He chose to stay in the background to protect himself, not because he was a chicken.

Lupin cares for Harry and has alot of information about Harry's father that he can share with Harry, to help him understand who his father was.

i dont see lupin dying since she already killed off sirius... *sniff*... but i am starting to really like the guy... i was just re-reading PoA and i realized what a great guy Lupin is... too bad hes a werewolf and has to go mental once a month

I don't think he is a chicken.
Try to put yourself in his shoes.
Have you ever confronted your friends in front of the whole school? Arguing with your best friends in front of everybody and telling them that it was wrong what they were doing?
You say that Neville did confront Harry and the others.
Yes, but he did it when they were alone.
and Lupin did the same thing. he did tell Sirius and James several times that they were behaving badly. And he did manage to make them feel ashamed of themselves, which, as Sirius put it, it was a great achievement.
He didn't stand up for Snape and he didn't fought with his friends in front of everybody. (But he did fight against James/Sirius's behavior.)
But this doesn't show him as a coward. It shows him more as a subtle, delicate, discrete, diplomat person.
It would have been humiliating for Sirius and James to be confronting by their own friend in front of all the school. It would have been a great strike to their pride.
And I am quite sure that the result would have been a negative one.
J/S would have become angry with Lupin. and in stead of following his advice they would have done the opposite. and not only that they wouldn't have stopped bullying Snape, but they would have left Lupin apart.
So, I think that Lupin is wise for not confronting his friends in that scene.
He knows that his words can reach James and Sirius much better when thy are alone.

Yes, I think that he was afraid of losing his friends too, bust most of all he was wise.
If he had been a chicken he wouldn't have said anything to his friends. But he did. in privacy.

I really like Lupin. I would love if someway Wormtail's silver hand killed the werewolf part of him and he went on to live a normal, happy life! But I doubt very much if the hand doesn't kill all of him if it were used on him. But I also don't see why Lupin should die - all the Mauranders would be gone and Harry would have no friend/link to his dad left.

But Wormtail owing Harry a debt - maybe that will somehow link to the silver hand and Lupin.

Since his possible death has been brought up, I thought I'd mention my thoughts on the silver-hand-as-murder-weapon thing that fans are now beginning to take as granted...
- How do we know it's actually made of silver? 'Silver' is also a colour.
- We don't know that silver has any effect on werewolves in Harry Potter. It wasn't so much as insinuated in in Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them. It would seem that at least werewolves are capable of touching silver, because the goblets in the Black mansion were made of silver, if Mundungus is any judge, and there was at least one description of Lupin holding a goblet.
- The silver-to-werewolves thing works best if the werewolf is otherwise invulnerable. Lupin is not invulnerable. Peter's silvery hand, that has the power to powder twigs to dust at a touch, could kill anybody. For there to be drama in the hand being silver and Lupin being a werewolf, we would have to reconsider the scenario.

***
About the 'coward' thing...
I don't think he didn't tell his friends off just because he didn't want to draw attention to himself. I think he didn't tell his friends off because he was frightened of getting on the bad side of them. Reading the way he talks about his old friends and former school days, it seems that they meant the world to him. They made his life so happy. I think he gave them leeway because he was afraid of losing them.

J. K. Rowling says it best, of course...
'I was also playing with [intolerance] when I created Professor Lupin, who has a condition, which is contagious of course and so people are very frightened of him and I really like Professor Lupin as a character because he's someone that also has a failing, because although he is a wonderful teacher (one I myself would have liked to have had as a teacher) and a wonderful man, he does like to be liked and that's where he slips up. He's been disliked so often that he's always so pleased to have friends, so he cuts them an awful lot of slack.'
- Royal Albert Hall chat, post OotP (so we know exactly what she was referring to!).

He didn't do the right thing, but it wasn't out of cowardice and it certainly doesn't make him a coward. He did what he did (or rather, he didn't do what he didn't do) because of the failing J. K. Rowling descibed.

I was thinking of something quite stupid... why can't Lupin use the Reparo charm on his clothes? Would it not work?

I don't think so... It seems too easy, if you can repair everything that way. Lupin's clothes are worn and ripped because of old age, not because someone slashed them with a knife. Maybe that's two different things.

Maybe Reparo doesn't work on everything. The thing about magic is, we don't know how long something would last for, and if it works on everything. It's the same as why do they need to buy things, can't they just make them appear? Probably because then it doesn't last as long, or work as well. The same for his clothes, his bag held together with neat knots.

For some reason, I always thought of Reparo as just working for like things made of glass-like substances, because we've only seen it used on the door to the train compartment, harry's glasses, and the bowl of murtlap essence, at least that's all I remember. And there are bound to be places in books about magic where the reader says, "why didnt the stupid character use magic to blah blah blah." I guess we think of magic as being able to do anything, but if it could, there wouldn't be books. I'm starting to ramble now, I hope you understand what I'm saying (though I kind of doubt it - sorry I'm being confusing!)

I think Reparo only works for things that literally broken. Such as glasses, cups, and other things that you usually think of as breakable. His clothes aren't exactly what you'd call broken, they're just very much worn out. I don't think reparo is meant to work on those sorts of things.

What about that charm Ron used in GoF to remove the lace from his dress robes?

Ron used a Severing charm (no name or incantation) on lace on his robes

Right... but it was mentioned he didn't do a good job, so I assumed it might have looked better if he'd been more thorough. In any case, my guess was Lupin might use it for some of the fraying on his clothes.

Not everybody is good at simple housework charms, as Tonks displayed. Maybe Lupin's just a lousy tailor...? :p

Plus there wouldn't be as much poverty pathos if his clothes were of good quality. Looks can say a lot.

Sure can. I honestly hope Sirius left him something. More than that, I hope getting rid of Fudge and his administrative staff will position Lupin to have a paid position he can count on.

hi! I'm new here. I've been reading this thread for so long and i just registered here. It's nice that Remus has fans like this. (too bad he'll never know) :eyebrows: (that was way off topic)

http://familytied.com/images/purp/welcome.gif Summer Carlton!

yes, do i know u purplehawk?

Don't think so, Summer. We're several generations apart in age.

Lupin is a very senstive character and I really like him. He always seems to be in the background, but helping along at the same time. He seems to be very reasurring as well - have you noticed that it's always him who comforts Mrs Weasley when she's upset rather than Arthur?

Cat, I just wanted to say that I thought your thoughts on the silver-hand-as-murder-weapon thing were really interesting. I agree, I don't think it's quite as straightforward as some people might seem to think.


Lupin is a very senstive character and I really like him. He always seems to be in the background, but helping along at the same time. He seems to be very reasurring as well - have you noticed that it's always him who comforts Mrs Weasley when she's upset rather than Arthur?

Hmmm, I always assumed that was just because Arthur happened not to be around at the time. But then, it does go to show what a nice and kindly person Lupin is. Actually, Miasma, I think you've used just the right word there. Sensitive. Lupin always seems to be very aware of other people, what they might be thinking, how they might be feeling. I think its a really great quality.

Miasma- good point. Lupin does seem to comfort Molly a lot. I need to look up later whether arthur was there or not. I don't think its a big deal though- Lupin helps everyone. He's an all around good guy.

Don't you just love him? :)

Happy Posting! :)

I often wondered why the Weasley's couldn't use magic to "spruce up" their belongings and home.

I wondered how any wizard could be "poor" when they could just use magic to "summon" whatever they wanted.

I was told that things done by magic didn't last forever.

I think that when Lupin comfort's Molly, it does not mean anything. He is just that sort of a guy. He cares alot about everyone.

I've also wondered about that sliver hand. It just says that the hand was a silver color and the first time I read it, I thought it just meant that it was silver because of the moon light shining upon it, not that it was actually made of silver. (I believe there is a thread on this on here somewhere). But I do like the idea that perhaps that silver hand could kill off the werewolf part of Lupin and then Lupin could live a normal life! That would be so nice for him....

That would be nice for him (to live a normal life) Still is it sliver?

I don't think it's really silver. I think it's just some sort of magical material that's a silvery color. Also, I'm of the opinion that when voldemort is finally killed, that hand, along with any other magical products Voldemort has whipped up, will disappear with him.

I actually think it is silver... It didn't say "silvery" or "silvery metal" or something else, it said "silver" It could mean it is silver, but it could also mean it's not. I"m leaning towards the silver side.

Silver doesn't normally crush everything it is touched with. I'm going for magic metal, although it could be enchanted silver (but it was conjured entirely as it is, not charmed...).

So.

We don't know that the hand is made of silver.

We don't know that silver harms werewolves at all (silver wasn't mentioned at all in the werewolf entry in Fantastic Beasts).

I still don't get why people are taking this 'silver hand' thing for granted. We don't have the facts.

I don't think the hand was actual silver--probably just a mgical substance that had a silver color. And as Cat said, it's never been explicitly said in HP that silver is particularly harmful to werewolves--JKR's magical creatures (the merpeople, for example) are often very different from their traditional images. So I don't think there's as much to the silver hand theory as might be thought...

I think it is sliver too. but i'm not sure it could kill Remus. In Fantastic Beasts they don't mention sliver or sliver objects (the book didn't tell too much about werewolves anyways) :agree:

Okay, so it doesn't say anything about silver in Fantastic Beasts - so how about we chuck that book out of the window and go with other information about werewolves and silver?

This is from The Werewolf Registry (http://www.werewolfregistry.net/hairy.html)

Silver and wolfsbane are the two known substances that werewolves are allergic to. It has long been believed that a silver bullet is the only device that will kill a werewolf. In reality, you would have to use a dozen or so silver bullets for it to be of a great effect. Silver does make the werewolf ill and will leave a mark on the skin, but it will only kill them if applied in great doses.
Wolfbane, however, is a true killer for both the werewolf and the normal human. It comes from the flowering Aconitum branch and is also referred to as monkshood. Warriors used to apply a drop of the poison to the tips of their arrows for lethality. Sorcerers of old were often called upon to mix potions containing wolfsbane for people wishing to transform into a werewolf. The potion would have to be prepared cautiously or certain death would have resulted. It is believed that these potions would have crated a hallucinogenic effect that might have caused one to believe they were indeed shape shifting into a wolf.


It's been documented (in legend, mind) that salt and holy water also have a fatal effect on werewolves, as does any wound that causes damage to the heart, brain and hanging works as well.

Just because JK didn't write it doesn't mean silver doesn't harm a werewolf.

Just because JK didn't write it doesn't mean silver doesn't harm a werewolf.

Yes, but since werewolves aren't real (prove me wrong!) and we're talking about J. K. Rowling's writing, what she says (or doesn't say) goes.

Not all werewolves are the same. Even in folk tale nobody was in total agreement about these things.

You could argue that J. K. Rowling purposefully kept the information out of FB, but then she would have to explain that away afterwards (even Thestrals are mentioned in FB, though not much is said). Besides, she's generally too crafty to simply keep information from us entirely, she usually provides it in mysterious ways.

I don't think that Lupin will die ~ from a silver(?) hand or other means.

Lupin is the last good guy from the group of Harry's father's friends. I think that he will live on in order to help Harry throughout his life.

It doesn't exactly say "silver hand" I'll just copy the part here:

"Voldemort raised his wand again and whirled it through the air. A streak of what looked like molten silver hung shining in the wand's wake. Momentarily shapeless, it writhed and then formed itself into a gleaming replica of a human hand, bright as moonlight, which soared downward and fixed itself upon Wormtail's bleeding wrist."

It is quite possible that it is or isn't silver. Everything as we know it has a sort of weakness. Traditionally speaking, silver is a werewolf's weakness. This is why in werewolf movies and such people kill them off by using silver bullets or something silver-like. But this is only what usual fantasy writers and movie writers create.
This is JK Rowling were talking about here, and we know that her books are quite different. It is possible she will use the concept of silver against werewolves, but it is highly unlikely. The wizarding world is much different from the muggle world so I don't think silver bullets or a silver hand can defeat Remus Lupin. After all Remus can use magic! He's gotta be tougher than an everyday alloy!

I don't think it really matters what Wormtail's hand is made from. It can crush twigs into powder, so it's considerably stronger than a normal hand. If Wormtail hits somebody with that hand they will be badly hurt and probably killed. If he wants to kill somebody with that hand he can (assuming they are within reach of his arm). It doesn't matter if they are a werewolf or if it's silver because the hand would kill them anyway. The only way it matters whether it's silver or not is if werewolves are immune to anything other than silver and (probably) the Avada Kedavra curse. I can't see anything that suggests werewolves have that immunity.

On an utterly unrelated note, I wonder if Wormtail would now have a silver paw in his rat form. I think he would, so he would be more recognisable as a rat than he was in the past.

Yes, but since werewolves aren't real (prove me wrong!) and we're talking about J. K. Rowling's writing, what she says (or doesn't say) goes.

Not all werewolves are the same. Even in folk tale nobody was in total agreement about these things.

You could argue that J. K. Rowling purposefully kept the information out of FB, but then she would have to explain that away afterwards (even Thestrals are mentioned in FB, though not much is said). Besides, she's generally too crafty to simply keep information from us entirely, she usually provides it in mysterious ways.

I'm not saying werewolves are real (give me some credit here) And I do know that she tends to leave, whether it be intentionally or merely overlooked, information out of her her books (I don't own Fantastic Beasts) But bear in mind, her books were initially aimed at kids and not a lot of children of certain ages know the legend of werewolves, so they wouldn't put Peter's silver hand and Lupin being a werewolf together and come up with an answer.

I'm only offering my option of the theory, which I'm entitled to do.

I'm not saying werewolves are real (give me some credit here) And I do know that she tends to leave, whether it be intentionally or merely overlooked, information out of her her books (I don't own Fantastic Beasts) But bear in mind, her books were initially aimed at kids and not a lot of children of certain ages know the legend of werewolves, so they wouldn't put Peter's silver hand and Lupin being a werewolf together and come up with an answer.


She doesn't usually merely leave out information though, that's the opposite of what I was saying. Nor would she have overlooked something like this if it was going to turn out to be important. I think it is likely that there's no mention of silver in FB because J. K. Rowling decided not to use that particular werewolf related myth.

So I think it is unlikely, until we're given further proof, that werewolves are harmed by silver in the Harry Potter series. There's not a shred of evidence for it, and the fact that werewolves in movies or other stories might be killed by silver doesn't count as evidence.

Okay then. But why specifically give the impression of Peter having a silver hand if this isn't going to lead to the werewolf/silver theory? Why not give him a stainless steel hand or a gold one?

And the info she left out, I should have elaborated, the Marauders Map turning up in Harry's possession in book 5. There was no evidence whatsoever of him getting it back in book 4. It was only after the World Book Day chat that she admitted not putting it in the book because she assumed readers would think Harry sneaked into Moody's office and stole it back.

So my point being, don't assume that just because she hasn't written it, doesn't mean it's not going to happen.

Okay then. But why specifically give the impression of Peter having a silver hand if this isn't going to lead to the werewolf/silver theory? Why not give him a stainless steel hand or a gold one?

We don't know what metal it's made out of. As people keep saying - 'silver' is also a description of the colour. You could describe stainless steel as 'silver', though it obviously isn't of that metal. She had to pick one metal and it might as well have been silvery. 'Gold' has sunny connotations and this was on an eerie dark night.

I don't think it was particularly emphasised either. I don't understand why, when we're given references to a metal hand that has awesome power, people are only bothered about what it might be made out of! As Lanc said earlier, that hand could kill anybody! It would make no difference if it was silver or not or if the victim was a werewolf or not!

And the info she left out, I should have elaborated, the Marauders Map turning up in Harry's possession in book 5. There was no evidence whatsoever of him getting it back in book 4. It was only after the World Book Day chat that she admitted not putting it in the book because she assumed readers would think Harry sneaked into Moody's office and stole it back.

So my point being, don't assume that just because she hasn't written it, doesn't mean it's not going to happen.


Yes, but that's trivial information. It didn't make any difference whether she included it or not. It wasn't as though she was withholding the information.

Okay then. But why specifically give the impression of Peter having a silver hand if this isn't going to lead to the werewolf/silver theory? Why not give him a stainless steel hand or a gold one?
Good point.

There were a lot of myth/folklore connections all through the books so far, so why not here?

I'm not sure how much of a 'myth' the silver thing is. I know that silver is connected to the moon, particularly in alchemy, and werewolves are also connected to the moon.

The idea of silver or silver bullets only really took off with horror movies.

Anyway, J. K. Rowling does not have to use everything that mythology provides, especially since mythology is often inconsistant. In mythology, there are no centaur females, but does that mean there aren't in Harry Potter? Actually, that was a bad example, because we've never seen a female centaur, so ignore that. Alright, sometimes in mythology, Boggarts are supposed to be bad brownies (or house elves) - does that mean that Boggarts in Harry Potter used to be house elves?

The silver thing works well in a story when the werewolf is invulnerable, except for this one Achilles' Heel. Professor Lupin is not invulnerable. That is another thing J. K. Rowling hasn't used. Nor is he an evil demon who eats children and ravishes women. Using aspects of mythology and legend in fiction is pretty much a pick 'n' mix affair.

It seems to me that stainless steel would be considered a muggle thingy. Not very magical. And gold would perhaps seem a bit too valuable for a creep like Wormtail. Silver may perhaps be considered having magical properties in general. The dagger Wormtail used was silver too, and so were some of Dumbledore's instruments.

As far as I can remember we haven't yet seen a single clue that JKR has intended to use the werewolf - silver connection. She isn't exactly copying everything in mythology.

And silver is a Slytherin colour, and so a natural one for Voldemort to use. It would look better than a green hand, anyway.

Random thought: it would make sense for Remus to have a relative called Russell, because the garden variety of the lupin flower is called the Russell hybrid. Not that I think a Russell Lupin will turn up in the book, I saw it on a packet of seeds and liked the idea.

I don't know if anyone has asked this or even knows what the answer would be, but I am curious about what Lupin's patronus is. From what I understand, a patronus takes the same shape as what animal a person would change into if they become an animagus. Lupin is a werewolf, but does that mean that he is technically an animagus? If not, what would he change into aside from a wolf (and thus, what would his patronus be?) Granted, I don't know how important it is and it may have even been mentioned in PoA (it has been awhile since I read it and I can't recall what it is if it was mentioned).

Anyways, thanks for any information or thoughts on this topid that you have. Also, if it shouldn't be in this thread, I am sorry.

The silver thing works well in a story when the werewolf is invulnerable, except for this one Achilles' Heel. Professor Lupin is not invulnerable. That is another thing J. K. Rowling hasn't used. Nor is he an evil demon who eats children and ravishes women.

That isn't to say that he doesn't want to ravish women :rotfl:

I think that JK has made the Harry Potter world her own, whatever she wants happens, and she may have taken a few things from Mythology, which doesn't mean she'll take it all.....

Sorry, but I don't know this.
A Patronus is always an animal?
If so, is the patronus the same animal as the animagus form?

nope, Jk said in her last online interview that the patronus' and animagus form are different in wizards

In fact what she said was rather ambiguous - that Hermione's Patronus is linked to her potential Animagus form. However, it strikes me that the two represent different things. A person's Animagus form is linked to their personality traits, but a Patronus represents the caster's happy feelings. (What Harry wants most is to have his family back, so it makes sense that his Patronus represents his father.) In that case, Lupin's Patronus would surely not be a wolf. That darn wolf is his worst enemy (apart from Voldemort).

Ok, then I misunderstood what was said concerning Herminone's patronus (not the first nor the last time that that has or will happen).

A lot of people have been having issues over the patronus/animagus quote from JKR. I think she was speaking in general terms of liking otters and everyone sort of got excited. Puffskein, that is the most concise way I have yet to see it explained, kudos.
BTW, I like your siggy.

I THINK LUPIN WILL PLAY A BIG ROLE IN THE 6TH AND 7TH BOOK HE WILL BE LIKE A DAD TO HARRY. I HOPE SIRIUS COMES BACK TO LIFE

RON AND HERMIONIE FOE EVER :love: :love: :love:

IT IS SO OBVIOUS HERMIONIE GRABS RONS HAND. AND IN THE 4TH BOOK RON GETS SO JEALOUS THAT HERMIONIE GOES TO THE YULE BALL WITH KRUM
:upset: :upset: [SIZE=3]

I actually do think Sirius was cleared out of the way for the possible reason of making room for Lupin in Harry's life. However, I think there is going to have to be something else that forces them to spend time together to make that work out that way. Lupin is just not that forward, and it's not like he has a luxurious home to invite Harry to live with him in.

Unless Lupin and Sirius were more than friends and Lupin's been shacking up at #12GP– oops! wrong thread! :p

Hey, Lupin had been living with Sirius at Grimmaud Place. It's stated a couple of times in OotP.

But that doesn't necessarily mean what I think you're implying. We best not even get into that.

oh, it's funny. Anyway, I know Lupin was living there... I was implying something a bit more... whatever:D. Would Sirius leave the place to Lupin? It solves the inheritance issue.

I think Sirius would only leave the place to Lupin in trust to Harry. Lupin would oversee things, pay the taxes, maintain the home, whatever, and then when Harry comes of age, it would be his. (do wizards pay property taxes?)
I can't see Sirius just all out leaving everything to Lupin, his friend, when it is Harry, his godson who will need a place to live after he comes of age and gets to leave Privet Drive. At the end of GoF, Dumbledore tells Sirius to "lay low at Lupin's for awhile..." so Lupin must have another home or at least another place to live, whereas Harry won't once he comes of age.

*just I said note: this post made me a third year....neat-o*

I also don't think he didn't leave anything to Lupin. I wouldn't be at all surprised if he left most, if not all, of his money to him. I mean, as a werewolf, he's not going to find much payed work, is he?

I think she was speaking in general terms of liking otters and everyone sort of got excited.


I agree. Presumably all that connects the Patronus creature (which doesn't have to be an animal) and the Animagus second-self creature is the fact that J. K. Rowling would like to be an otter if she was an Animagus and that Hermione's Patronus was an otter. J. K. Rowling obviously just likes otters. Personally, I think that otters are just long, soggy rats. But, then again, I like rats.

Anyway... about inheriting things from Sirius... Sirius might not have left anything to anybody. I'm not saying he was tight, I just mean that he presumably had no intention of dying any time soon. Maybe everybody's just going to presume that all the stuff is rightfully Harry's now - although Harry probably wouldn't want the money.

FirefightingMuggle, becoming a third year in a thread about Professor Lupin is a good coincidence. It was Harry's third year, after all!

:rotfl: at Cat's last remark.

I think otters are cute... of course, I'm curious what everyone else's patronus' are....

Sirius might not have left anything to anybody. I'm not saying he was tight, I just mean that he presumably had no intention of dying any time soon.

I'm not so sure, considering what Hagrid said about Sirius wanting to die in battle (Hagrid isn't always right, but it does fit with Sirius's character). The Order members all seemed fully aware of the danger they're in. I'd like to think that Sirius left most of his belongings to Harry and Lupin with a bit shared between the other Order members, but I can easily see some sort of complication with his nasty relatives trying to grab some of it.

Being in the Order has always meant a good chance of dying, and dying unexpectedly. It may be a must to have an updated will.

I'm not so sure, considering what Hagrid said about Sirius wanting to die in battle (Hagrid isn't always right, but it does fit with Sirius's character).


Didn't Harry say afterwards that he wouldn't have wanted to die at all? I agree with that. I believe that most people have a preferred way to die, but that doesn't mean that anybody ever really expects sudden death. I'm not sure that Sirius was sensible enough to plan.

On the other hand... I suppose he had a lot of time to think about things in OotP, and even thinking about quite morbid things would be better than staring at the wallpaper all day or listening to Kreacher rambling...

Anyway, this is All About Sirius Black, not All About Remus Lupin. Shame on me.

Back to Lupin - I was speaking about Professor Lupin in fan fiction somewhere else, can't remember where, so I thought I might continue that train of thought here. I think many people make Lupin too frail and too soft. He's not just a kind teacher, he's a good teacher. While teaching in Prisoner of Azkaban, he was practically jumping about! He's gentle and sickly-looking but he can also be quite lively and mischievous. I've also noticed that some of the most tediously depressing thought monologues (is 'monologue' the right word here?) tend to come from Professor Lupin. Lupin is quite a sad character to read about, and he carries the weight of the moon on his shoulders, but he seems to me to be the kind of character that just gets on with life without faffing about with all that interestingly mysterious angst nonsense.

I'm not keen on fan fiction in general, but it is interesting to see how people present the characters - it shows how they are perceiving them.

Didn't Harry say afterwards that he wouldn't have wanted to die at all? I agree with that. I believe that most people have a preferred way to die, but that doesn't mean that anybody ever really expects sudden death. I'm not sure that Sirius was sensible enough to plan.

I don't think Sirius had a death-wish, but the conversation with Nick suggests that Sirius wasn't afraid of death. And there was a war on - I can't believe Sirius didn't have enough sense to consider the possibility of dying in a war against the people who killed several of his friends in the past. Unless, of course, he saw himself being stuck in that house for the whole duration of the war, but he wouldn't have thought that if he could help it.

Back to Lupin: I agree that fanfic writers like to make him drown in his own angst, but I think that idea betrays what makes him such a great creation:his subtlety. Ever since I first read POA, I could tell he was old before his age even when he was "practically jumping about", from his slightly over-polite turn of phrase ("Would you please...")One thing I really like about him is that he's a very sympathetic character, but he doesn't ask for sympathy by letting his heart bleed all over people. (One time he might have dramatised himself was when he claimed to have been shunned all his adult life, only for us to see him later fully accepted by those nice Order people who presumably accepted him in the past, but he might have just meant that he was shunned by potential employers.)

I don't think Sirius had a death-wish, but the conversation with Nick suggests that Sirius wasn't afraid of death. And there was a war on - I can't believe Sirius didn't have enough sense to consider the possibility of dying in a war against the people who killed several of his friends in the past.

That's true, but I think that after being shut up in Grimauld Place for so long, Sirius ceased (a bit) to take the possibility of death quite so earnestly. I don't blame him- as Dumbledore says, he was a fighter, and not the sort of man who would take easily to extended confinement. However, it is pretty clear to me that Sirius did 'loose it' just a little after all that time. Even at the begining of OotP, he tell Harry "A deadly stuggle for my soul would have been nice", and later, "The risk is what would have made it fun..." (paraphrased). Sirius was so eager and excited to get out and actively fight Voldemort that it seems to me the reality of the risks sort of faded for him.
(Sorry, OT, I know!)

(One time he might have dramatised himself was when he claimed to have been shunned all his adult life, only for us to see him later fully accepted by those nice Order people who presumably accepted him in the past, but he might have just meant that he was shunned by potential employers.)

Well, that was also spoken (if I'm not mistaken) right at the eve of the reader's 'education' concerning werewolfs. JKR needed to make the actual position of werewolfs (and most part-humans, actually) in her world clear. Lupin saying this not only illuminates his character for us but introduces one of her first points about prejudice in the Wizarding World.

One time he might have dramatised himself was when he claimed to have been shunned all his adult life, only for us to see him later fully accepted by those nice Order people who presumably accepted him in the past, but he might have just meant that he was shunned by potential employers.


Saying that you've been shunned all your life is not the same as saying that everybody in your life has shunned you.

Let's get this Lupin thread back up. :)

When I recalled the passages of Snape being lured into the danger of being ripped apart by Lupin as a werewolf, I’ve come across something that reminded me of the decision of what they did (Lupin and Sirius) although it’s been speculated that Lupin wasn’t even in on it, yet as I’ve read on books on werewolves and lycanthropy, a man in werewolf form for example, can have the self same decision/judgment in his mind but it has been heightened. I've mentioned this before too. Tapping more into the darker side of himself. It is still himself that is the person in werewolf form but when I say “darker”, it is because through out the myths, being transformed into a werewolf causes a bestial reaction and rationality goes out the door. On the ethical stage, the werewolf myth is a pragmatic appraisal of the variety of choices accessible to humans. Those who turn out to be " werewolves" or those who " cause" others to become one are caught up in " moral metamorphosis" : this is a procedure that recognizes the exhilaration that comes with persuasion in degrading this kind of act but also reveals the dreadful conditions that comes to those who deliberately choose to exhibit bestiality. The werewolf myth is a deep and insightful thought provoking look into human life.

Let's look at Lycaon whose bestiality and cannibalism angered Jupiter. (Zeus) He was turned into a wolf. Then as I read on about Lycanthropy history, in John Milton's " COMUS" 1634.
http://www.mith.umd.edu/comus/final/

EXCERPTS:
" However, the masque itself provides no clear path through the woods of gender scholarship. Passages that seem straightforward are often undercut by later lines, and the perception of righteousness or evil becomes hazy. As in the later Paradise Lost, Milton provides fascinating and complicated examples of goodness and evil, but neither seems completely free of its opposite. As a result, the reader finds critics wrangling over whether to embrace the Lady as a feminist heroine and Milton as a progressive canonical figure or instead reject the submissive return of the Lady to her father and Milton's reiteration of the patriarchal status quo. "

The same with Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde. In HP, we have the two opposites:Riddle and Harry and the importance of Lupin in the series as a werewolf and why JKR probably installed a mythical beast from the form of the most rational, sweetest man.

On a metaphysical level, the werewolf myth can be understood in the light of Marsilio Ficino's " Platonic Theology" and Pietro Pomponazzi's " On the Immortality of the Soul."

http://www.thomist.org/visitors/1990/903atrel.htm
1462–1525, Italian philosopher, b. Mantua. He was a professor at Padua, Ferrara, and Bologna. Pomponazzi aroused great interest in intellectual circles when he questioned St. Thomas Aquinas's interpretation of Aristotle. In his De immortalitate animae (1516), Pomponazzi argued that evidence suggests that the soul is mortal; its immortality, therefore, must be accepted as an article of faith.

That's an interesting post GryffindorGr, but I don't think JKR is using that kind of werewolf metaphor in her books. She has said that Lupin's lycanthropy symbolises real illnesses and disabilities, inwhich case it doesn't make much sense for the wolf to be part of his personality - rather, it's a kind of infection which is nothing to do with him. On the other hand, maybe it is part of his personality and only his treatment by society is representative of real illnesses. Take your pick.

I wanted to go back to something I talk about quite often - why people think Lupin is sexy. Yes, he's done some stylish things in his time, but Dumbledore's done more, and where are the Dumbledore fangirls? Lupin may be younger, but his characterisation seems to treat him as if he's really as old as he looks. Also, when he appeared in OOTP the emphasis was on his kindness rather than his style (we didn't hear about him doing cool things to Death Eaters, for instance), which is mainly what I like him for, rather than some trait I've just made up and forced on him.

That's an interesting post GryffindorGr, but I don't think JKR is using that kind of werewolf metaphor in her books. She has said that Lupin's lycanthropy symbolises real illnesses and disabilities, inwhich case it doesn't make much sense for the wolf to be part of his personality - rather, it's a kind of infection which is nothing to do with him. On the other hand, maybe it is part of his personality and only his treatment by society is representative of real illnesses. Take your pick.
Actually, in the origin of what werewolfism is, or what causes it, is a form of disease. It is an illness. Just like evil. It is a disease that eats you like cancer. The form of lycanthrophy comes from meloncholy and meloncholy is a deeper depression--which JKR mentioned in her interview about depression and the inspiration of I believe, happy thoughts that produce patronuses. So there is a connection. A deeper one.


I wanted to go back to something I talk about quite often - why people think Lupin is sexy. Yes, he's done some stylish things in his time, but Dumbledore's done more, and where are the Dumbledore fangirls? Lupin may be younger, but his characterisation seems to treat him as if he's really as old as he looks. Also, when he appeared in OOTP the emphasis was on his kindness rather than his style (we didn't hear about him doing cool things to Death Eaters, for instance), which is mainly what I like him for, rather than some trait I've just made up and forced on him.
I recently watched this french version of the werewolf and the girl who turned into a werewolf, which commonly isn't suggested that girls can't turn into one but rather that male werewolves have devoured the innocent girls. (ie, little red riding hood scenerio) but in my classes of Fairy tale analysises, they've been equated to the male power of the darker side and in which young girls should be wary of. A warning to not stray off the wrong path for therefore you'd meet your doom. (marry the wrong man,etc) So I guess that's part of the reason for the sexiness of werewolfism.
Dumbledore sexy? Well, the problem with this is that he is ancient, and not too many girls like even sagely old wise men with long white beards, no matter how much power and wisdom they bestow. LOL.

Actually, in the origin of what werewolfism is, or what causes it, is a form of disease.


Actually, there are multiple origins behind the mythology of werewolves. Deformities and diseases, ergot poisoning (a fungus that affects rye, wheat etc.), Biblical references to us being God's sheep (...wolves attack sheep) and mental illnesses such as 'lycanthropy'.

I don't think J. K. Rowling has any singular basis for her werewolves. The concept of werewolves and everything about them varies in the telling. You can't find Professor Lupin by looking up other werewolves and werewolf mythology.

I think J. K. Rowling installed a rational, sweet werewolf because it wonderfully contradicts what he becomes during the full moon and what werewolves are generally expected to be. The counterbalance of man and wolf is so prominent that we can't confuse the two and we can see how it is a real problem and a torment.

by Cat
Actually, there are multiple origins behind the mythology of werewolves. Deformities and diseases, ergot poisoning (a fungus that affects rye, wheat etc.), Biblical references to us being God's sheep (...wolves attack sheep) and mental illnesses such as 'lycanthropy'.

I don't think J. K. Rowling has any singular basis for her werewolves. The concept of werewolves and everything about them varies in the telling. You can't find Professor Lupin by looking up other werewolves and werewolf mythology.
As much as I would agree with you. Those multiple origins are still negative connotations of what is decidedly “evil” or opposite of what is good. Diseases and such, poisoning, references to staying away from the wolf, being god’s sheep, etc, are still indications of “evil”. I’m not saying that the werewolf is evil. No way. But in literature or in mythology, it’s usually noted as something that is not right. Don’t get me wrong. Werewolves are actually one of my favorite mythical “beasts”. More than the vampire, and well, I never really took to the vampire myth so much, even the allure of immortality which it implies.
I don’t know what JKR implies with her werewolf Lupin but installing him in the HP series, like Hagrid, being the half giant, gives us an indication of what is half blood. Like the pureblood/muggle born mania that goes around.

I think J. K. Rowling installed a rational, sweet werewolf because it wonderfully contradicts what he becomes during the full moon and what werewolves are generally expected to be. The counterbalance of man and wolf is so prominent that we can't confuse the two and we can see how it is a real problem and a torment.

When the full moon is out he has to lock himself up. It must be a torment to him and I think that is where the psychology lies.

The horrible thing about it is that they can't control the werewolf bit, and that's what's so scary. Of course, that's the reason why they lack rights and jobs. It would be practical for them to just have fullmoon off. I guess that shows the rashness of humans.

GryffindorGr, werewolves are my favourite beasties too and I'm not denying that they're generally depicted as evil beings or the results of evil. I was just stating the facts.

The psychology of the typical werewolf is the whole concept of 'man to beast'. It is about the loss of civilisation, and this is one of things that people fear the most. The werewolf suggests total chaos.

But Professor Lupin is a unique werewolf. J. K. Rowling doesn't play on this theme at all. The psychological aspect is not the wolf, but the human, who is shunned from society by fear and ignorance.

The horrible thing about it is that they can't control the werewolf bit, and that's what's so scary. Of course, that's the reason why they lack rights and jobs.


It would make sense if that's what people were afraid of, but I don't think that's all there is to it. A werewolf is a werewolf all the time. People are scared even when it is not the full moon because, I guess, they just don't understand how a normal person can also be a monster. Even Mrs Weasley, a wonderful and kind woman, seemed a little nervous around that werewolf in the hospital, though she is fine around Professor Lupin who she knows and is comfortable around.

GryffindorGr, werewolves are my favourite beasties too and I'm not denying that they're generally depicted as evil beings or the results of evil. I was just stating the facts.

The psychology of the typical werewolf is the whole concept of 'man to beast'. It is about the loss of civilisation, and this is one of things that people fear the most. The werewolf suggests total chaos.

But Professor Lupin is a unique werewolf. J. K. Rowling doesn't play on this theme at all. The psychological aspect is not the wolf, but the human, who is shunned from society by fear and ignorance.

Well, that's what I was saying, it is the wolf and the man, or rather the man to beast as you dubbed it. It's exactly what I tried to get across with Milton's piece (the links provided) of the duality of their nature.
People fear the vampire too but are more prone to accept it as tempting because they move with more magic and invisibility. Werewolves are more akin to animals and therefore, people in the past were always afraid of this beast and told stories to ward children away from going to certain paths that are unrecognizable,etc.
When you say that JKR doesn't play on this theme, and say that the psychological aspect is the human and not the wolf, well, Lupin IS part beast. It is part of his "loss" of humanity. But we don't see him as the typical werewolf of course. I think that JKR's werewolf in Lupin is special or unique.
Lupin IS shunned by society because of his condition. If he didn't have this condition then he isn't the "special" werewolf that JKR installed. It's just part of him.

When you say that JKR doesn't play on this theme, and say that the psychological aspect is the human and not the wolf, well, Lupin IS part beast.


Yes, as a character he is. But she doesn't use werewolves to get across a point about the natures of man and beast or the idea of civilised man going wild.

She uses werewolves to get a point across about how people treat others with problems that aren't their fault. Namely, people with diseases or disabilities.

There's still a duality of natures, man and monster, but that's not the most important thing about Professor Lupin. That's not his 'theme'.

I've always seen Lupin as the embodiment of Muggle AIDS or HIV, much as I've seen the house-elves as the embodiment of slavery and the pureblood obsession as the embodiment of racism. People fear Lupin, he has trouble getting a job, he is doomed to a life of solitude even though he has found a way to control it. (Don't jump on that last part--I was just using it as a parallel.;))

I've always seen Lupin as the embodiment of Muggle AIDS or HIV, much as I've seen the house-elves as the embodiment of slavery and the pureblood obsession as the embodiment of racism.


I agree with the other two, but I'm not certain that the house elves are the embodiment of slavery. They're an entirely different species and, though they should definitely be consider equal to humans, they shouldn't be likened to them so easily. Maybe they really are incredibly servile and humble by nature. That doesn't mean that they should be exploited, but nor does it mean that they should be told to act like humans.

I see Hermione as more of an impudent missionary than a revolutionist with S. P. E. W. at the moment. She barges into another culture and tells them what they aught to want.

Anyway, waaay off topic. I think that HIV is the most suitable application of the werewolf metaphor. It always amazes me when people say they read the Harry series to escape from the harshness of reality. The series has the harshness of reality in it! Even if Harry conquers Voldemort, he's not going to conquer intolerance, corruption, murder and injustice. He can kill Voldemort but he's not going to cure werewolves, free the house elves, solve the politic affairs of the Ministry, sort out the justice system and bring his loved ones back from the dead. Is it going to be a happy ending? Depends on what you call 'happy'! It'll take more than one hero to sort this lot out :D

I would love to have an in-depth discussion on SPEW and house-elves, but it would be inconclusive at best (it all depends on the next two books) and, as you said, it's way off-topic. (I don't usually respond to OWLS, by the way, or I'd respond to your post there--it creeps me out to have private conversations with people I've only met on-screen.)
I, too, find it difficult to believe that all the social and political problems will be solved by the next book simply because everyone knows Voldemort is back and Dumbledore has had his little "chat" with Fudge. A new Minister does not constitute an end to all problems. I don't see how universal fear/suspicion of half-breeds can be fixed with a change of the guard. I would like to see Lupin find some sort of happiness before the end, though. He doesn't seem happy to me, just accepting of the way things are.

Yes, as a character he is. But she doesn't use werewolves to get across a point about the natures of man and beast or the idea of civilised man going wild.

She uses werewolves to get a point across about how people treat others with problems that aren't their fault. Namely, people with diseases or disabilities.

There's still a duality of natures, man and monster, but that's not the most important thing about Professor Lupin. That's not his 'theme'.
Cat, it seems as if you are the authority of Lupin but I didnt say that is what JKR is doing with Lupin as his "theme", I was merely helping out with some werewolf information and analysis that contributes to the were-man's condition and psychology. It is part of his nature. I already see a lot of what JKR is using with people in the HP series, like Hagrid, and the Centaurs, the elves, etc to get a point across about how others unlike them treat them.

I hope you all dont mind me moving away from this extremely in-depth discussion, which is a little too much for me I think. I just wanted to go back to this -


I wanted to go back to something I talk about quite often - why people think Lupin is sexy. Yes, he's done some stylish things in his time, but Dumbledore's done more, and where are the Dumbledore fangirls? Lupin may be younger, but his characterisation seems to treat him as if he's really as old as he looks. Also, when he appeared in OOTP the emphasis was on his kindness rather than his style (we didn't hear about him doing cool things to Death Eaters, for instance), which is mainly what I like him for, rather than some trait I've just made up and forced on him.

I think it all just depends on what you find sexy. For me, Lupins sexyness actually comes out of the fact that he is so good natured and so kind, especially considering all the awful things that have happened to him in his life. I think that for Lupin to have gone through his life and come out on the other side with wisdom and kindness, rather than bitterness and anger at how unfair its been, shows a real strength of character. Its that strength of character that I find sexy. I've never imagined him 'doing cool stuff' or 'looking cool', I cant imagine him strutting around in his undies with a perfectly toned and tanned body. Hes sexy because of who he is.

As for why people dont find Dumbledore sexy, well, I think thats just because hes so old! Plus, personally, (sorry this is a bit off topic), I think Dumbledores personality is a bit harder to pin down that Lupins. He seems a bit more mysterious to me.

Just a quick question - do we know exactly how old Lupin is?

I think it's funny we're talking about sexiness--I've honestly never seen any of Rowling's characters as sexy, even Sirius (I hear him described that way a lot), perhaps because Rowling doesn't write about her characters as you would in a romance novel. Perhaps I really AM reading these books differently...:)

meeliemoo and puffskein--

I don't think Lupin is thought of as sexy because of his style; on the contrary, it's his seeming lack of any pretension whatever that makes him an attractive man (I prefer attractive to sexy, myself--I'm with Pegasus here on most of JKR's characters). In this age of super-arrogant ladykillers, Lupin gives us some relief (not all women like the constant work of flattering over-confident men to prop up their belief in their own irresistable manhood, especially as such men are characterized by their otherwise flaccid egos). I think DD would have trouble drumming up fangirls for the simple reason that no one really likes to fantasize about guys who would take every opportunity to instruct you on your personal growth. Who could ever imagine being in an equitable relationship with DD?

I'll say it again--we have no reason not to assume that Lupin-as-werewolf will not look like our traditional idea of a werewolf, nor do we have any reason to assume that he will. We do know that JKR seems to be writing in the vein of other contemporary writers by questioning and challlenging outdated ideas of monstrosity and absolute evil.

I agree with Cat about the house-elves. It's insulting that they are not all written as Dobby is (our first encounter with them), yearning for their liberation, but Hermione shouldn't barge in and tell them what they should want.

I don't see Lupin as 'sexy'. He's kind, gentle and reasonable - all far better things than sexiness.



Cat, it seems as if you are the authority of Lupin but I didnt say that is what JKR is doing with Lupin as his "theme"...


Don't be so defensive, I wasn't saying you were. I was just saying that it wasn't.

And, incidentally, I don't think you can look to other sources to understand werewolves. Few werewolves are alike. You can try and imagine what it must be like, and that's all anybody can do, but it's tricky business to read about another writer's werewolf and say 'This must be the same for Lupin'. J. K. Rowling might have a different perception of what it must feel like.

Vigilance, I don't think it's insulting that they're not all written as Dobby is. Dobby is a rebel and a break from the mould. It's not unbelievable to imagine that house elves are naturally very servile as a species - goblins as a species are naturally attracted to money, Boggarts as a species are naturally inclined to frighten people... and so on. I don't think that house elves should stop working for humans or even start working for money if they don't want to, but they should have rights that allow them to do what they want without being harmed or bullied or neglected. And if any house elf does want payment, he should get it :D

Sorry, bad Cat, very bad Cat, I'll go and put my hand in the toaster for being off topic.

I think it all just depends on what you find sexy. For me, Lupins sexyness actually comes out of the fact that he is so good natured and so kind, especially considering all the awful things that have happened to him in his life.

See, that's what I like him for, but it makes me want to give him a big hug, not jump down his pants. I suppose some people take "sexy" to mean "appealing in any way" - I'm not, I'm using the strict definition and Lupin doesn't fit it for me. I prefer "cuddly".

And, incidentally, I don't think you can look to other sources to understand werewolves. Few werewolves are alike. You can try and imagine what it must be like, and that's all anybody can do, but it's tricky business to read about another writer's werewolf and say 'This must be the same for Lupin'. J. K. Rowling might have a different perception of what it must feel like.

I agree. The only think we know about Lupin's werewolf problems is that he turns into a werewolf once a month, and drinks wolfsbane potion to try to "calm himself". Nothing about him having a wolf's super-human strength or wonderful hearing the rest of the month. Nothing about him not being able to touch silver or something else.

It's possible that that is true though. But personally I won't believe it until JKR tells us either through a book or an interview.

Just a quick question - do we know exactly how old Lupin is?
We know that Snape was 35/36 in GoF (JKR said so) and since Lupin should be the same age, he was around 36/37 in OotP. So he's not that old. He'll probably live a long time yet, unless he gets killed of course.

Vigilance, I don't think it's insulting that they're not all written as Dobby is. Dobby is a rebel and a break from the mould. It's not unbelievable to imagine that house elves are naturally very servile as a species - goblins as a species are naturally attracted to money, Boggarts as a species are naturally inclined to frighten people... and so on. I don't think that house elves should stop working for humans or even start working for money if they don't want to, but they should have rights that allow them to do what they want without being harmed or bullied or neglected. And if any house elf does want payment, he should get it :D


Yes, that's where we differ. I don't think that any species is born with a general disposition for attrubutes such as "servility" or "greediness." Those seem cultural priorities to me. I think species are born with the disposition to survive, but that's about it. :D We just differ in our opinions about inherited "species" traits.

It would make sense if that's what people were afraid of, but I don't think that's all there is to it. A werewolf is a werewolf all the time. People are scared even when it is not the full moon because, I guess, they just don't understand how a normal person can also be a monster. Even Mrs Weasley, a wonderful and kind woman, seemed a little nervous around that werewolf in the hospital, though she is fine around Professor Lupin who she knows and is comfortable around.

Well, there are different aspects that make people nervous. I was just generalizing. The lack of control manages to worm its way into nearly the whole pictue, though. They wouldn't be that scared if werewolves had control over what they do. They'd still be scared, with the whole transformation and biting thing, but werewolves wouldn't have such a horrible reputation. It'd still be bad, but not nearly so much.

I prefer "cuddly".
We must have different interpretations of "cuddly.":) I have a male cousin (two years younger than myself) who is "cuddly"--he's enormously tall, football build, well-dressed in an informal, cottony sort of way, and likes to put his arm around people and mess up their hair or give them big hugs. Small children flock to him. He's a big teddy bear. That's "cuddly" to me.
Lupin, on the other hand, is distant but warm, a little depressed, shabby, and prematurely aging--the kind of man you have to love despite his looks, but not very teddy bearish. That's just the Lupin in my head, though, and as these are books, interpretations are subjective.
It's not unbelievable to imagine that house elves are naturally very servile as a species
Truthfully, I have long wondered if house-elves have been "jinxed" as a race to be servile. It just doesn't make sense to me for any creature to be this way naturally. don't ask me to explain how they could have been "jinked" as a race generations ago, it just makes sense in my mind. I don't think SPEW came up for nothing, and I'm interested to see where Rowling goes with it. With all the discussions about the mistreatment of house-elves--with Arthur, with Dumbledore, etc.--I just don't see this theme stopping where it lies. I'll just have to wait and see.

We must have different interpretations of "cuddly.":) I have a male cousin (two years younger than myself) who is "cuddly"--he's enormously tall, football build, well-dressed in an informal, cottony sort of way, and likes to put his arm around people and mess up their hair or give them big hugs. Small children flock to him. He's a big teddy bear. That's "cuddly" to me.
Lupin, on the other hand, is distant but warm, a little depressed, shabby, and prematurely aging--the kind of man you have to love despite his looks, but not very teddy bearish. That's just the Lupin in my head, though, and as these are books, interpretations are subjective.

I agree. Hagrid's cuddly and he has a very different personality. Professor Lupin's got a warm personality and he's sociable enough, but at the same time he's more.... discreet, I suppose, and mild.

It just doesn't make sense to me for any creature to be this way naturally.


Why? It's a survival trait. They serve to be fed (presumably) and to put somebody else's roof over their heads. I admire them for being so humble and free from greed.

Anyway, Professor Lupin's not a house-elf so we should continue this in a more appropriate thread...

***
I think I unwittingly started this by going into it, so I'll point the conversation back to Lupin.

I don't really like neat little Q&A discussions and the following questions are just for framework, so don't feel obligated to reply them if you want to go off down another path.

Do you think we'll see more or less of Professor Lupin in the next two books than we did in Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix?

In what capacity do you think we'll see him again? As a background Order member or more?

Do you think we'll ever find out more about him (relevant or minor details)?

Do you think we will ever see the beastie side of him again?

Do you think we'll see more or less of Professor Lupin in the next two books than we did in Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix?

My guess is more.

In what capacity do you think we'll see him again? As a background Order member or more?

He seems to be, together with Tonks and Moody, determined to look after Harry and support him. Probably more than 'background'.

Do you think we'll ever find out more about him (relevant or minor details)?

No idea.

Do you think we will ever see the beastie side of him again?[/QUOTE]

As above.

Do you think we'll see more or less of Professor Lupin in the next two books than we did in Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix?

In what capacity do you think we'll see him again? As a background Order member or more?

Do you think we'll ever find out more about him (relevant or minor details)?

Do you think we will ever see the beastie side of him again?

I'm hoping we'll see more of him. JKR has said he has an "important" role in book seven, although I am aware that important may not mean "big". I just hope it does. But I have noticed (and asked about this on another thread though I've yet to get a straight answer) that a lot of people are saying JKR said he won't be in book six. I find this difficult to believe and I've never seen this said specifically by JKR that I can find - only that she has said he would be back in book five and would be important in book seven. So does anyone know if JKR has actually stated in exact words that he won't be in book six or are people jumping to conclusions because he has been mentioned in reference to books five and seven but not to six? (Does that make sense? :shrug: ). Because if people are just assuming, there is no reason to believe he won't be in book six - after all, if we are expecting JKR to list every character who will or won't be in the last two books, we could be there for days! Please reassure me or let me down gently! I for one would be terribly disappointed if he went "offscreen" for a whole book like he did in GOF or worse, vanished completely! :upset: :sad:

I think he'll continue much as he did in Ootp. I can't see him turning into Harry's surrogate father (interesting as that might prove) as he often seems to in fanfiction unless Harry wants him to. I think he could end up being the one to tell Harry more about his parents - after all, alas, who else is there now? A little part of me stubbornly refuses to let go of the idea that he might teach at Hogwarts again, perhaps for the last two years - after all, JKR refused to answer when asked if any teacher would last more than a year and she makes such a thing of what a good teacher he is, and the kids still call him professor (foreshadowing? Or just not letting go? ;)) and they'll need a good teacher now with Voldemort risen, and surely the very bottom of the barrel has been scraped and the world will see sense and have him back and... :eyebrows: Anyway, rambling more in hope than expectation! I did see an interesting theory in a fanfic suggesting that Lupin pulling Harry back in the DoM and preventing him from following Sirius into the veil could be considered saving Harry's life and therefore Harry would now owe Lupin a life debt. My own take on this idea is that if Voldemort's side were to discover this, Lupin would suddenly become very valuable to them - after all, a wizard to whom Harry Potter is forcibly in debt could be very useful to them (could this even be his importance in book seven? :eyebrows: ). Therefore, Dumbledore would need Lupin safe and out of harms reach - teaching at Hogwarts perhaps? :) Or, in hiding for all of book six...:(


I'd love to find out more about his background and given that hints have been offered of more looking back to the past of Harry's parents and the Whomping Willow Incident - there's a chance. But only if it's relevent to the story I suspect...

I reckon we will see his wolf again at some point. In what context, I've not a clue.

:)

by Cat
Don't be so defensive, I wasn't saying you were. I was just saying that it wasn't.
And, incidentally, I don't think you can look to other sources to understand werewolves. Few werewolves are alike. You can try and imagine what it must be like, and that's all anybody can do, but it's tricky business to read about another writer's werewolf and say 'This must be the same for Lupin'. J. K. Rowling might have a different perception of what it must feel like.
Actually I thought you were being defensive. :huh: Ah well.

I am quite aware that one werewolf defers from another because of the human being who is behind each werewolf. Just like people are different from one another.
I think you misunderstand me, Cat, I don’t know what it is like for Lupin. All I know is that werewolfism in the series is just a representation to me as a half breed, half blood icon who behind the disease is a very gentle person, and like all the half breeds in the series, it seems to represent a not accepted or feared entity. As if for example, Hagrid’s giant background (as indicative of Ron’s first impression, as well as Draco’s and few others) tells me that they should not be mixed in with the blood of humans. It is this “fear” again that tells me that it is probably similar to the way werewolfism is feared. Although not to that degree: bestial and internal struggle.
If I want to look at other sources to understand werewolves, well, it may help ya know? I never claim that I know what JKR is doing with her werewolf. All of us as fans can just perceive in our own way what he means to us as a reader. Besides, I tried to avoid the word “theme” in this context of perceiving Lupin’s nature, and his duality as man and beast. There are too many “themes” already in HP. Big one is the good and evil, naturally. ;)

ETA:

Do you think we'll see more or less of Professor Lupin in the next two books than we did in Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix?

I hope so! I think he will be very important in the next two books.

In what capacity do you think we'll see him again? As a background Order member or more?
I think the same as Sirius. Or rather a little more than what we've seen in OotP. Maybe the same as in PoA.
Do you think we'll ever find out more about him (relevant or minor details)?
Hmm, Rowling gave us little hints but as usual, they're like snacks.

Do you think we will ever see the beastie side of him again?
Maybe. I hope so.

We must have different interpretations of "cuddly.":)

Your interpretation seems to see the cuddly person as the one doing the cuddling - I see it as the one receiving it, and any time I think about Lupin very hard I get an overwhelming urge to hug him, or anything. Maybe I need help for that. Even though Lupin is subtle with showing his feelings, we've seen him hug people twice (Sirius and Molly), which is probably more than any other male character (Except perhaps Hagrid - someone correct me on this).

Do you think we'll see more or less of Professor Lupin in the next two books than we did in Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix?

Probably the same amount, assuming he won't be at Hogwarts, but I expect him to have a more central role now that Sirius is gone.

In what capacity do you think we'll see him again? As a background Order member or more?

As an Order member and, I hope, as mentor and friend to Harry as in POA.

Do you think we'll ever find out more about him (relevant or minor details)?

Hard to predict, but we should at least learn about his mysterious Order work, and maybe even about schooldays.

Do you think we will ever see the beastie side of him again?

Well, it's already been important in one plot, but lots of things pop up in more than one book, so who knows?

Do you think we'll see more or less of Professor Lupin in the next two books than we did in Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix?
I think maybe yes, if for nothing else but because we'll see the Order much more and because they might be less reluctant to let Harry in on the details this time round, so we won't see them being quite so secretive.

In what capacity do you think we'll see him again? As a background Order member or more?
I don't think he'll ever be a background Order member, even if we only see him as that! Harry gravitates towards him a bit more than some because he knows him a bit more than some of the others, and, of course, he'll always be Harry's favourite teacher. I don't think that role will ever slip away. It's useful to have a Professor Lupin around!

Do you think we'll ever find out more about him (relevant or minor details)?
I think we'll find out more about him in minor details, as we find out more about the past. And I think we find out about people just by the things they say, so unless he's very quiet it'll be hard not to find out more about him!

Do you think we will ever see the beastie side of him again?
As cruel as it sounds, I'd like to! I know it's horrible for him and everyone else concerned ... but it's a fun read! Though I think as a human dealing with the werewolf, the things that happen as a man are more important, character-wise, and because of the way people treat him. So perhaps it'll just always be lurking in the shadows, for us.

Do you think we'll see more or less of Professor Lupin in the next two books than we did in Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix?

More hopefully!

In what capacity do you think we'll see him again? As a background Order member or more?

I doubt he'll be so much of a background character. He won't take Sirius's spot, but he'll do his best to keep it from hurting as much.

Do you think we'll ever find out more about him (relevant or minor details)?

I hope so, I love the man half to death, and more information would be welcome!

Do you think we will ever see the beastie side of him again?

Who knows? It depends on how the plot goes. But I have a hunch we will.

(Coincidentally, I'm listening to Werewolves of London at this very moment).

Anyway, I'll answer my own questions!

Do you think we'll see more or less of Professor Lupin in the next two books than we did in Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix?

I think that we'll not see him quite so much. Then again, I thought we would hardly see anything of him in OOPT and he kept popping up.

In what capacity do you think we'll see him again? As a background Order member or more?

I think that we'll probably only see him in Order-related circumstances, but that doesn't mean anything...

Do you think we'll ever find out more about him (relevant or minor details)?

We learn more about people without realising it sometimes. It's hard not to learn more about people.

Do you think we will ever see the beastie side of him again?

Maybe I should have worded this 'Would you like to see the beastie side of him again?'.

I would like to, I admit it, because it was so exciting in POA. But I think it's likely that the next two books will be all Voldemort and Death Eaters. POA was a bit of a change in the flow.

I just realised that, although we were regularly reminded in OOTP that Lupin is a werewolf, it wasn't mentioned that that makes him potentially dangerous. As far as OOTP is concerned, lycanthropy is just a social stigma and somewhat unpleasant for the sufferer. We're not even told what Lupin's doing for his full moons these days, just that he's finding his condition "quite easy to manage" - despite the fact that he left the school in POA because he thought it wasn't! Not that I think readers are likely to forget that werewolves are dangerous, or that the social comment isn't important, but it feels a bit inconsistent, or even sloppy, to lose the moral complexity that was so important in POA - that while Lupin suffers a lot of unwarranted prejudice as a human, he's still able to become very nasty.

Very true Puffskein. however, I can relate to this situation. I used to know a man who had schizophrenia. As long as he kept taking his medication he was ok - not the kind of guy I'd choose to go for a drink with personality-wise, but as part of our gaming group nice enough. Then he stopped taking them. The change was evident the very next week. He's actually in care now.

The point? Well, it's possible that PoA gave Lupin a shock - as long as he's near Harry (possibly any pupils, he seems a nice enough guy for that) he may be forced to act quickly, maybe too quickly for him to take his medicine. He can't afford to take that chance. No doubt he thought that a nice quiet office job wouldn't have the same problems. Didn't count on Umbridge though....

Did that make any sense? I've read it through a couple of times and I'm not sure if my point's got across!

Puff--I think that's a consistent problem in the series. The issues in one book are pushed to sidelines for other issues in the next. They become interesting concerns that take up peoples' time when the book's new and central social problem isn't immediate.

The point? Well, it's possible that PoA gave Lupin a shock - as long as he's near Harry (possibly any pupils, he seems a nice enough guy for that) he may be forced to act quickly, maybe too quickly for him to take his medicine. He can't afford to take that chance. No doubt he thought that a nice quiet office job wouldn't have the same problems. Didn't count on Umbridge though....

Did that make any sense? I've read it through a couple of times and I'm not sure if my point's got across!

If your point is that Lupin learned from the events of POA that he should take more care with his condition, that's probably true. It's quite likely that there was effectively no chance of him being dangerous during OOTP - what was bothering me is the fact that we were invited to take that for granted.

I don't think it's inconsistant. We were even reminded of the dangerousness of werewolves when Mrs Weasley was nervous of that man in the hospital, and Mr Weasley said that it was alright because it wasn't full moon. They've not suddenly become fluffy teddy bears (I have a fluffy wolf toy, but that's beside the point).

If Professor Lupin is still taking that potion - and why wouldn't Dumbledore continue to tell Snape to make it for a fellow Order member? - then the situation really is under control.

If he isn't still taking the potion, then he's presumably doing what he's done all his life and he must have found something that works well enough.

You can't have certain issues being prominent in every book. Otherwise the plot would get lost. It wasn't a 'Lupin' book like POA was, so what do you expect? We never saw him as the monster. We never saw the monster side of him. So why bring the monster into it?

I'm pretty sure that Lupin's werewolf problems were quite alright during OotP. If they hadn't been - say Lupin had attacked someone, or come possibly very close to it - it might have been mentioned, but if nothing happens, nothing happens.

Anyway, we can't except JKR to bring up every aspect of everything. The book was already over seven hundred pages long, and as Cat said, it wasn't about Lupin (even though Lupin of course is nice and interesting and popular to read about). Lupin was just a side character.

Anyway, there are two books left, and Lupin will be involved in the seventh at least, so it's very possible we'll here more about him then. :)

I think that might be what Puff's talking about. The books are plot-driven, not theme or character-driven. They are rather topical in that sense, and while topical may get you to turn a page, it won't reveal deeper book integrities. Just my opinion, though I know many of you take issue with anything that remotely smacks of analysis (read criticism in the scholarly sense of the word) when it comes to JKR's writing, so please don't slam me for it.

by Doggy
Anyway, we can't except JKR to bring up every aspect of everything. The book was already over seven hundred pages long, and as Cat said, it wasn't about Lupin (even though Lupin of course is nice and interesting and popular to read about). Lupin was just a side character.

Anyway, there are two books left, and Lupin will be involved in the seventh at least, so it's very possible we'll here more about him then.
I’m sure people are aware that Lupin is a side character, just like Sirius, Hagrid, McGonagall, etc, are. In fact, many of these characters are side characters with exception of the trio. What we are doing here, is discussing all about Lupin. And because he is a werewolf, even though he hasn’t shown his “baddie” side, and we’ve only one indication of it mentioned: (Snape being lured to his “death” by Sirius) it’s not to say that somehow, along the way, he’s going to be part of a bigger picture like Snape is. IMO, Snape seems to play a bigger picture into the whole plotline. I think that because Sirius has been killed in OotP, Lupins character will play that hole that was filled by Sirius in PoA, so then now what? After Sirius is gone and all that’s said and done, what purpose does our favorite werewolf present to us in HP? :)

by Cat
If Professor Lupin is still taking that potion - and why wouldn't Dumbledore continue to tell Snape to make it for a fellow Order member? - then the situation really is under control.

If he isn't still taking the potion, then he's presumably doing what he's done all his life and he must have found something that works well enough.

You can't have certain issues being prominent in every book. Otherwise the plot would get lost. It wasn't a 'Lupin' book like POA was, so what do you expect? We never saw him as the monster. We never saw the monster side of him. So why bring the monster into it?
Do we need to know that Dumbledore is telling Snape to keep making that potion for Lupin? Is it really important? Correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t one indication of Snape creating a potion to help alleviate Lupin’s symptoms when the moon is full and that he has to lock himself up enough to show us as readers that he can’t trust himself around others yet in that condition. And if for example, he isn’t taking the potion anymore, then what’s to say that he has found something that works well for him? If his parents have spent his entire childhood and growing up years to seek a cure, which to no avail, then what say, that all of a sudden he has found it with us not knowing about it?
And why bring the monster in it? You’re right, we have not seen the monster that should represent that side of him but you know, that suggestion of the luring of Snape’s death by Sirius gives me a small indication that there was indeed a big chance that Lupin in his were form is indeed very dangerous.

by Pilum
The point? Well, it's possible that PoA gave Lupin a shock - as long as he's near Harry (possibly any pupils, he seems a nice enough guy for that) he may be forced to act quickly, maybe too quickly for him to take his medicine. He can't afford to take that chance. No doubt he thought that a nice quiet office job wouldn't have the same problems. Didn't count on Umbridge though....

Did that make any sense? I've read it through a couple of times and I'm not sure if my point's got across!
Yeah you did. Well, obviously, Dumbledore trusted him to take the job among students so he knows how very good a teacher Lupin is. In fact, one of the best professors as many of the students the following years have discussed in terms of DADA class. I would like to see him teach DADA again. Maybe Snape is jealous that Lupin was so good at it. LOL. Although in seriousness, I did enjoy Crouch Jr’s techniques. He was quite adept and competent. Constant Vigilance he says. :)

Do we need to know that Dumbledore is telling Snape to keep making that potion for Lupin? Is it really important?p

That's the point, we don't need to know these things. Either Snape's still making him the potion or he has some other way of keeping himself from harming people every full moon. In OOPT, at least, we don't need to know which it is because Lupin wasn't in the foreground like he was in POA.

So how can it possibly be inconsistent? It would only be inconsistent if we did have all the details and Professor Lupin was a prominent character but things were different than in POA.


And why bring the monster in it? You’re right, we have not seen the monster that should represent that side of him but you know, that suggestion of the luring of Snape’s death by Sirius gives me a small indication that there was indeed a big chance that Lupin in his were form is indeed very dangerous.


Yes, he's dangerous at the full moon and when he hasn't taken his potion. But what's that got to do with his character as we see him in OOTP? Other than as background psychology, I mean. There's no doubt that the werewolf is dangerous but we never saw him as a wolf in OOTP and the wolf aspect wasn't being a problem.

And Lupin was probably a victim in the Sirius' prank, too, in a way. He was used. The wolf doesn't have a human mind - it just actively seeks to attack humans, any humans, so when he saw Snape, he acted like any other werewolf. I don't think a werewolf has a dangerous mind, as such. It's just a brute with a taste for humans.

by Cat
That's the point, we don't need to know these things. Either Snape's still making him the potion or he has some other way of keeping himself from harming people every full moon. In OOPT, at least, we don't need to know which it is because Lupin wasn't in the foreground like he was in POA.
Alright, at least we agree on this. :) I think Lupin’s character was introduced very nicely in PoA, if his character does develop more, or in the same level as PoA, then I would presume that it would be at least in one more book. Most likely the 7th, one reason is because I’d like to see him survive till the 7th and after. Perhaps the development isn’t in the style of how he grew up, where he was the first 11 years, but that we can find out his relationship with the rest of the Marauders on a deeper level, most particularly with James (since he’s more mysterious)


Yes, he's dangerous at the full moon and when he hasn't taken his potion. But what's that got to do with his character as we see him in OOTP? Other than as background psychology, I mean. There's no doubt that the werewolf is dangerous but we never saw him as a wolf in OOTP and the wolf aspect wasn't being a problem.

And Lupin was probably a victim in the Sirius' prank, too, in a way. He was used. The wolf doesn't have a human mind - it just actively seeks to attack humans, any humans, so when he saw Snape, he acted like any other werewolf. I don't think a werewolf has a dangerous mind, as such. It's just a brute with a taste for humans.
In OotP, I didn’t really see his character develop any more than it already has. Maybe I’ll re-read the parts where Lupin comes in but I did enjoy the parts where we see him as a bit of carefree humourist in Snapes memories. Especially when they joked about the werewolf exam. It’s notable to see how he kept his head down when James, Sirius, and Pettigrew were enjoying the torture of Snape.
I think when you mean that Lupin was sort of a victim in Sirius’s pranks, you mean when they joked about his werewolf background? I can see that happening, especially from what we saw in Snape’s memories.

In OotP, I didn’t really see his character develop any more than it already has.

I don't think it did either. That's why I think it's wrong to think that details included in POA should have been included in OOTP. J. K.Rowling can only go into detail about things, such as the dangerous beast aspect of Professor Lupin, when it comes up in the story. I don't see what the problem is if she doesn't...


I think when you mean that Lupin was sort of a victim in Sirius’s pranks, you mean when they joked about his werewolf background?

No, I was referring to the incident when Snape was almost killed by the werewolf. I mean that Sirius didn't think about how it might have hurt Lupin just like he didn't think that he was putting Snape in real danger. I don't think Lupin would have wanted to be used to scare Snape even if he didn't like Snape much. For a start, it meant that Snape knew his secret. And if Snape hadn't been so fortunate, Lupin would have killed him and he would never have been able to live with that.

I know that it's just a book and everything...but I cried not only for Sirius but also for Remus. I really feel sorry for him. James and Sirius died and Peter turned out to be all grrr and errr and stuff.

I love lupin and i would cry even more than i did when sirius died if he was killed off....

J. K.Rowling can only go into detail about things, such as the dangerous beast aspect of Professor Lupin, when it comes up in the story. I don't see what the problem is if she doesn't...

Despite Lupin being a minor character in OOTP, we saw more of him than strictly necessary, and we were beaten over the head with his werewolf status more often than necessary. What bothered me was that we heard quite a lot about one aspect of that condition (the social stigma) while other aspects (the man-eating thing, which is, after all, the cause of the stigma) were ignored. (Well, there was the chap in the hospital, but it was Lupin who nearly ate the kids once.) It would be a major thing for a minor character to eat someone! It need only have taken a sentence or two to explain what precautions he was taking and why he felt more in control of his condition than he did when he resigned.

What bothered me was that we heard quite a lot about one aspect of that condition (the social stigma) while other aspects (the man-eating thing, which is, after all, the cause of the stigma) were ignored. It would be a major thing for a minor character to eat someone! It need only have taken a sentence or two to explain what precautions he was taking and why he felt more in control of his condition than he did when he resigned.

More detail would have been nice, but then I always like background and history. But until Lupin goes wolf around people, the social stigma will always take precedence.

Plus, if I can refer back to my original post here: with (name), when he wasn't on his meds, it was immediately obvious. He would sit in a corner having arguments with himself (we'd only hear one side of course). He'd act in very unsocial and inappropriate ways (god I hate that phrase, but there's no other word...). When he was taking them, he was lucid. Cause and effect.

Similarly, with this situation we know that a medicine exists. It too is not a cure, but it does alleviate the suffering. We also know that Lupin has been taking this in the past. The lack of references to him going berserk and ripping peoples throats out can be taken as evidence that he is continuing to do so. He may not even be getting his supply from Snape. If St Mungo's is happy to have a werewolf on a general ward (although admittedly the place is underground, and PoA does seem to indicate that the moonlight actually has to hit the lycanthrope), this - and its cure-all reputation - would indicate to me that they have access to the potion and are probably writing prescriptions for those affected. As Lupin seems permanently stationed in London anyway, all he has to do is pick up his dose from the hospital as and when, problem solved.

Or given the dates of the HP saga, perhaps they just chucked him out to Bodmin Moor on the nights of the full moon :lol:!

It need only have taken a sentence or two to explain what precautions he was taking and why he felt more in control of his condition than he did when he resigned.

What would be the point? Readers are capable of using their imaginations. If he says or acts like it's under control then there's no reason to doubt him.

I don't think he resigned because he felt the condition was out of control. He resigned primarily because he didn't want to be a teacher that everybody feared. It got the better of him once but those were really extraordinary circumstances.

I would have to think that Lupin still takes his potion. He knows full well what can happen to him and to others when he doesn't. Lupin doesn't strike me as the kind of guy who would put anyone in danger. If not taking the potion means putting someone, anyone, in danger, then RJL is going to take the potion.

As for what else Lupin is doing as a precaution, I don't think it's important. I mean for all we know it could be something completely boring. He could lock himself in a concrete room with a steel door and twiddle his thumbs or what ever once a month. He could row himself out into the middle of the ocean and bob around on the waves for a while. If his precautions were really that important, we would know about them. I'm sure we will if it is important, if not, I'm content to imgaine a werewolf bobbing around in a row-boat out in the middle of the English Channel every full moon.

Also, he doesn't get hurt that way. Werewolves bite and scratch themselves when they lack humans to do that too. It has to be much better to be in control than to not be.

He could row himself out into the middle of the ocean and bob around on the waves for a while.


Ooh, funny imagery. I think a secure cellar or a secluded barn might be more practical...
:D

*Shudder* Can you imagine his parents only being able to shut him in the cellar when he was little, having to lie awake at night listening to the sound of their son screaming and howling...

Do you think we'll see more or less of Professor Lupin in the next two books than we did in Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix?
I think we'll see more now that Sirius is gone and Harry needs him more than ever now. He's the last of the marauders.


In what capacity do you think we'll see him again? As a background Order member or more?
More, becasue he has to some business that he needs to finish with Wormtail and at the moment he's the last real link that Harry has to learning anything else about his father.

Do you think we'll ever find out more about him (relevant or minor details)?
We we know from a recent interview that he's a halfblood. We will most likely hear more about him in my opinion.


Do you think we will ever see the beastie side of him again?
If and when he confronts Wormtail:evil:

Remus Lupin would make an excellent father figure to Harry, but who knows...Ms. Rowling might just decide to kill off Lupin and Harry is left with more ::depression:: :upset:

i cant see her killing off Lupin.. that would just be overkill (for lack of a better word)... i mean she cant kill everone who is a father figure to harry...

but i do see him getting closer to Lupin in the next books...

My completely random and utterly groundless prediction:

I think that we'll hear from Lupin at the beginning of the sixth book and then not hear from him much, if at all, until the seventh.

Or maybe not. Maybe the complete opposite will happen. I'm not good at guessing things. I'm really not a theory sort of person...

Lupin must have been devistated when Sirius disappeared through the veil. At least there is still Mad-eye, Tonks and all the other witchs and wizards in the Order. Also there is Harry, who thinks so highly of Lupin. Let's look back a little, when Lupin first appeared on the H.W.E., in the third book, no one thought very highly of him because of how he looked. Later he showed his brilliance when he knew how to handle a bogart.Then later in the book it was a real shocker when you find out that Lupin is a werewolf, I wonder what Harry thought of Lupin after that.

[QUOTE=Cat]I just know that if he snuffs it (or Snuffles it), I'm going to find where J. K. Rowling lives and attack her about the face with an oversized cod.
QUOTE]

I SO agree. I was sad enough when Sirius dies......I don't know about the cod, though. Probably a drawing of the person that killed her.
That's right. Get 'er with paper cuts.
Or.....the pages on which she WROTE that he dies!
Pretty ironic, huh?!
:p

I'm a memeber of the Cod squad, I just remembered! I might have to re-add that to my sig. If Remus dies, I'm carpooling with Cat. I won't do anything to drastic to her, just let her know how I feel. I'd still read the seventh book, though! :rotfl:

If Lupin dies...he will be reborn as Hermione's child out of wedlock, and we'll all see him again anyway. Or, maybe he will return as Ron's next pet, or--wait for it--Ron himself! :rolleyes:

If she kills Remus, sign me up for the trip to Edinburgh! I hate to say it....but it is likely he will die. Anyone who is close to Harry is at risk, but anyone who happens to be one of James Potter's best friends, a werewolf, a member of the Order, and Harry Potter's most likely guardian is definitely in much more trouble. I hope not though.

There'd be a sort of tragic righteousness to Lupin dying, though, wouldn't there? He gets to join his friends again, and all that. I don't believe in that claptrap in real life, but this is JKR's world, remember, and it seems that there is some sort of afterlife.

There'd be a sort of tragic righteousness to Lupin dying, though, wouldn't there? He gets to join his friends again, and all that. I don't believe in that claptrap in real life, but this is JKR's world, remember, and it seems that there is some sort of afterlife.
That is so true. There are times when we have to remember this is a world of werewolves, vampires (even when none is mentioned--only in books, classes)elves, and lo and behold--paintings that talk, ghosts that roam Hogwarts (note that they don't roam elsewhere? maybe I should re-read and find out if they are anywhere else)
Lupin dying--I don't see it happening. I don't know--perhaps I'm in the hope category that he'll be the survivor, or that if he does die, Peter too will die. So that all the marauders will die at the end of book 7 and they all serve their purpose in the storyline.

As to HDDWI comments, yes there would be. It would be a rather bittersweet ending for him. Bitter: He's dead, we don't see him, and what about Harry? Sweet: He can see his childhood friends, and (I hope) He won't be left with the curse upon him.

I was rereading OotP for the enth time and I realized that Lupin is far away from the rest of the marauders in the original Order picture... why is that? Did he have a fight with James and the rest of them right before he died?... oh and they suspected that he was the traitor... poor guy :(

I don't really like the idea of him 'joining his friends'. It's too neat. And although the worst thing about death is the ones who are left behind, I think it would be a much happier ending if Lupin learned to live and cope and spent the rest of his days, plentiful may they be, in happiness. He doesn't need Sirius, James and Peter to make him complete.

Anyway, one of them has to keep guard. :D

May Lupin breathe his last 'I solemly swear I am up to no good' at the grand old age of 192. On a big comfy death bed. With hundreds of mourning grandchildren around him. And a big wad of cash in the bank.

I was rereading OotP for the enth time and I realized that Lupin is far away from the rest of the marauders in the original Order picture... why is that? Did he have a fight with James and the rest of them right before he died?... oh and they suspected that he was the traitor... poor guy :(

Err... tall ones kneel at the front? No, that doesn't make sense for Peter :D

It could have just been seating arrangement. It probably doesn't mean anything. They weren't conjoined quadruplets (?).

While it would certainly be a happier ending if he learns to cope and lives to 192, for some reason I don't see Lupin as a happy character. More of a tragic hero, a fundamentally good person flawed (in his case) by his need to fit in.

While it would certainly be a happier ending if he learns to cope and lives to 192, for some reason I don't see Lupin as a happy character. More of a tragic hero, a fundamentally good person flawed (in his case) by his need to fit in.

That's hardly a flaw to die for.

Anyway, just because somebody's had a fairly tragic life doesn't mean they have to have a tragic death. That's Sirius' bit :D.

Seriously, though, I'm not just wishing happy ever after for Professor Lupin. I think that a lot of people think that it's almost necessary for him to die and I disagree. He'd be the one that got left behind, which is worse in the long run, but he's got so much he has to deal with. I'm not saying that's a excuse note from dying, I just mean that he could have a far more interesting life than any interesting death. He's the series' token werewolf :lol:! His friends don't need him anymore but the world does.

Anyway, I suppose it would depend entirely on how it was written, but mightn't the 'all of them together again!' idea be a bit too... well, soppy.

I think there's plenty of room for a happy ending for our werewolf. (Merlin, I hope so.) Even when we first meet him in PoA -- after twelve years of thinking Sirius betrayed and murdered James and Peter -- he's described as cheerful more often than not; he's clearly someone who loves teaching, has a ready sense of humor, and is at least casually friendly with most of his colleagues. I think this is something that tends to get overlooked; sure, James, Sirius, and Peter are his childhood friends, but they are not the only meaningful relationships he's ever had or is capable of having, and I doubt that he'd want to die just because they're gone.

He'd better not die. That's the one thing that would seriously make me consider giving away all my books.

I hope Lupin gets some happiness in his life. Though realistically his position hasn't changed much in the last 3 years. He's still got 2 dead friends, and 1 one who's changed sides. Sirius and Peter just happen to have changed around. :)

Yeah, but then again... I'm not sure he really, in his heart, believed that Sirius could cause James and Lily to die.

If he did, then he wouldn't have switched over so quickly in PoA.

I don't know... seeing Peter on the Marauders Map would have convinced me pretty quick.

Convinced you that Peter was alive, sure. But convinced you that the traitor was not? I don't know - if I had a little time to think it all through, I think I'd settle on the answer fairly quick. But in the heat of the ... battle, if you want to call it that, right when a supposedly dead "friend" becomes alive, a supposedly traitorous "friend" claims to still be a friend, and on and on, I think my mind would be racing so fast I couldn't concentrate.

Then again, Lupin does seem to be a particularly clear thinker.

Yes, he's a clear thinker, also you'd start to think on the way about how Sirius always claimed he was innocent, and why Peter would hide for so long.... I mean if Peter was hiding from Sirius, there would be no reason to hide from him after he was put in Azkaban. Also you'd think that Peter would have come to Lupin if he'd needed help.

Wasn't he hiding from the remaining Death Eaters too? They might think he had lured Voldemort in a trap.

But Lupin would be thinking about the type of friendships that they all had. Sirius quite clearly said that they had (well they thought they had) the 'all for one, and one for all' type of friendship. They would have died for one another. Thereby if one was in trouble, they would know that they could go to one of the others. Hmmm... I'm starting to think that Pettigrew needs a thread of his own.....

Convinced you that Peter was alive, sure. But convinced you that the traitor was not? I don't know - if I had a little time to think it all through, I think I'd settle on the answer fairly quick. But in the heat of the ... battle, if you want to call it that, right when a supposedly dead "friend" becomes alive, a supposedly traitorous "friend" claims to still be a friend, and on and on, I think my mind would be racing so fast I couldn't concentrate.

Then again, Lupin does seem to be a particularly clear thinker.

Perhaps it would make sense to imagine that Lupin had been slightly suspicious at the time of the 'death' of Peter. Well, maybe not suspicious as such, but he saw that there were holes. For a start, there was no body. Always keep your mind open for a death with no body... I watch murder mysteries enough to know that :D

But any concerns scabbed over and he got on with his life believing that Sirius had been the traitor. But when he saw Peter, everything came back. Peter was the crux of it all. Something obviously wasn't right and Lupin didn't have to think much to realise the truth, though a few things needed explaining.


What did Sirius want, Pettigrew dead and what did Lupin do, delay that and as a result allowed Voldemort to rise again resulting in Sirius's death.

Ah, no fair, wording it like that! He didn't cause Voldemort to rise again, Peter did. In situations like that I think the best thing to do is blame the immediate cause. Peter, in that case, just like Bellatrix was the cause of Sirius' death and not Harry.

I got the impression that Lupin had taken on the role of protecting Harry and showed us that by threatening Vernon.


Personally, I think the whole Order has become Harry's guardian. Who said he could only have one person? I think he's got a group parent now!

Personally, I think the whole Order has become Harry's guardian. Who said he could only have one person? I think he's got a group parent now!


That's a good one, Cat. The old African saying: "It takes a village... " certainly applies in Harry's situation.

And that would be good for Harry, especially as his actual guardians didn't try to do a good job of raising him.

I would hate to be Lupin, because Sirius died and all. Also, because of the time he turned into a werewolf and Wormtail escaped. If he wouldn't have turned into the werewolf they would have been able to clear Sirius' name and probably would have kept Voldemort from rising again, in OotP. Yet, there was nothing he could do about it...poor Lupin.

The Order being Harry's guardian is a good one! I like that idea. But what about Dumbledore being Harry's guardian?

Poor Lupin, I really hope that he is able to obtain that wolfsbane potion where ever he goes. It would help him have some peace with his situation. I like to think that he will be Harry's guardian now also. It always seemed to me that Harry was closer to Lupin than he was to Sirius Black.

I think there's plenty of room for a happy ending for our werewolf. (Merlin, I hope so.) Even when we first meet him in PoA -- after twelve years of thinking Sirius betrayed and murdered James and Peter -- he's described as cheerful more often than not; he's clearly someone who loves teaching, has a ready sense of humor, and is at least casually friendly with most of his colleagues. I think this is something that tends to get overlooked; sure, James, Sirius, and Peter are his childhood friends, but they are not the only meaningful relationships he's ever had or is capable of having, and I doubt that he'd want to die just because they're gone.

I totally agree. I think there's plenty of scope for Lupin to be happy in life. I actually find the idea that he would only 'find contentment' in death, being re-united with his old school friends, well, a bit weird. Because whilst we don't know what he's been doing for the last 12-15 years, he's obviously been doing something. He must have forged some sort of life for himself, and it seems to be one that's worth living for - especially seeing how well rounded and cheerful he is when we first see him in PoA.

And about the cuddly/sexy question - I dont think I'd describe him as being cuddly. There's something about him thats a bit too secretive and mysterious for that. Something a bit distant. (And I think I'd probably say that I found that mystery and distance a bit sexy too).

Question (from the caption to a fanart of Lupin): "Harry has lost Sirius, but he's still got his friends, Dumbledore, Hagrid, and the Weasleys. Who does Lupin have?"

My answer: "You just said it!" (though his friends are different from Harry's)

Like several recent posters, I just can't see how some people have managed to ignore the fact that Lupin is an almost fully accepted and respected Order member and is perfectly comfortable socialising with those who don't judge him for his condition. I can only assume they've been reading too many angst fics. With all the prejudice he's received, how could he not appreciate all these decent people in spite of having lost his closest friends? He may be a tragic character but he's not an ungrateful git!

Back to my previous topic: I suppose Cat's right that the situation was very unusual when Lupin became dangerous, and his dangerous side was effectively non-existent during OOTP, but I wouldn't have minded a little reminder that it still potentially exists. I suppose what I don't like is the chance of his beastie side just being a plot device.

I can only assume they've been reading too many angst fics. With all the prejudice he's received, how could he not appreciate all these decent people in spite of having lost his closest friends? He may be a tragic character but he's not an ungrateful git!

Yes, people like to slap an unnecessary amount of angst and pathos on Professor Lupin. The way J. K. Rowling presents him is, I think, far more realistic. Nobody's really that mopey outside of goth poetry about sexy vampires, surely!

I think he values friends too much to fail to acknowledge the people who like him. He's not a sulky teenager.

I suppose what I don't like is the chance of his beastie side just being a plot device.

Personally, I wouldn't mind if it was just a plot device. I don't think the beastie (It seems my word usage is contagious!) aspect of Professor Lupin is what's important about him being a werewolf. Being human most of the time is probably more of a problem. There's no potion for it!

Something I was wondering about - would Lupin be able to have children without the risk of them becoming werewolves? Meaning is the only way he can infect a person is by biting them or would werewolf genes be transferred genetically to any offspring he might have? I'm wondering if that might be part of the reason why he never got married. I could see him being married with a family and them understanding that he has to go away for a little bit each month.

I think you only become a werewolf by being bitten by a werewolf. I think that if he's not married, it's just because he probably feels awkward about meeting people and/or because many people would run a mile on finding out he's a werewolf.


So Lupin is just a laid back sophisticated gentleman.

He is, isn't he? But he's a real gentleman, unlike somebody like Lucius Malfoy. A gentleman in poor clothing.

With Lupin there is much more to him than looks. He cares so much for everyone he meets, probably more than even Dumbledore, though we have not yet seen a real mean streak in him. Though I feel he might just break a little after seeing Sirius die, he might even be less inclined to talk about the whole predicament and more likely to react in the next two books.
I don't think he'll break. I'm sure Sirius's death had the same kind of impact on him as James's death. The only thing I really predict concerning Lupin in the next two books is that he will have another chance to come face to face with Pettigrew. I hope Lupin gets his day and finally defeats that rat.

... though we have not yet seen a real mean streak in him.


We saw him standing there about to kill Peter, who was on his knees and pleading. Alright 'mean' doesn't exactly summon that up, but it wasn't a pleasant side of Professor Lupin.

Maybe this is more mischievous than mean, but it was Professor Lupin that coaxed Neville's 'Ridikulus!' idea for the Boggart Snape.

Just being thorough :D.

I don't think he'll break. I'm sure Sirius's death had the same kind of impact on him as James's death. The only thing I really predict concerning Lupin in the next two books is that he will have another chance to come face to face with Pettigrew. I hope Lupin gets his day and finally defeats that rat.

So do I. Hallelujah, so do I. :tu:

Personally, I wouldn't mind if it was just a plot device. I don't think the beastie (It seems my word usage is contagious!) aspect of Professor Lupin is what's important about him being a werewolf.

But...can it just be a plot device if it's also part of his psychology? I'm sure we've agreed in the past that his personality has been shaped by the fact that he does (or can) become a fully-fledged monster, as well as by much of society treating him like one. Of course, it could be enough that he used to turn into a monster, but it strikes me that as long as there's the tiniest risk of the mad wolf getting out, the consequences are too dire to ignore.

*****

We saw him standing there about to kill Peter, who was on his knees and pleading. Alright 'mean' doesn't exactly summon that up, but it wasn't a pleasant side of Professor Lupin.

I think that's as mean as he ever gets. He must have been feeling mean, he just chose to show it differently from Sirius or Harry.

Of course, it could be enough that he used to turn into a monster, but it strikes me that as long as there's the tiniest risk of the mad wolf getting out, the consequences are too dire to ignore.

Sorry, but I don't get what you're saying. The very fact that he's a werewolf stops us ignoring the fact that, without the potion, he'd turn into a vicious beast once a month. Is there supposed to be a song and dance about it every time Lupin comes into the story? J. K. Rowling hasn't suddenly decided that werewolves are actually cuddly little puppies. If she kept pointing out that there was a possibility of danger it would seem that she was getting at him. We're not meant to be frightened of Lupin. He's either got his potion or he keeps himself safe somewhere - so everything really is just fine as far as that's concerned.

Yes, you could say it's part of the psychological profile of the character. What I meant was that I wouldn't mind if the beastie never shows it's furry face again. The psychology of a character is always present. We don't need to be reminded every chapter.

I know and that worries me about Lupin, the fact that in PoA he forgot to take his potion and then turned into a werewolf. So I wonder where the werewolf went at the end of PoA because he was not in the shrieking shake as he ran into the forest but did he stay there.

I think he stayed in the Forest, worrying centaurs and giant spiders. If all his clothes rip off dramatically when he transforms then, presumably, they had to send a male staff member in with some clothing for him first thing in the morning.
:D


I do worry about the mass army of creatures wizards fear and werewolves are one of those creatures that might be in Voldemort's army. Could Voldemort control Lupin's werewolf and if he could that would be a very nasty twist to Harry.


I don't think anybody can control a werewolf beastie. They attack humans and probably don't give a toss about what humans they attack.

I can imagine how many werewolves could be tempted to join forces with Voldemort, though. They've been treated badly by the side that's supposed to be good. Voldemort could promise them more than he could actually give them.

Werewolves,giants,Dementors,goblins,vampires....an y group of (intelligent) magical people or creatures that had its freedom and rights denied to it by the "good" side of wizardkind is definitely going to be a target for Voldemort,a group to be won over,the way he was doing with the giants.But werewolves in wolf form wouldn't be any use to Voldemort,because they can't be controlled by humans,and even Animagi couldn't exercise full control over a wolf.If they were to be targeted,they'd be targeted as humans...the ostracism and discrimination most werewolves face at the hands of normal wizards ,and the sense of alienation it breeds,could be major factors in a number of werewolves joining the Death Eaters,though maybe there aren't a lot of them-werewolf bites could be rare.
Lupin was the calmest,most rational,most levelheaded of the Marauders while they were in school...maybe the fact that he went wild once a month played a part in his being the epitome of calm the rest of the time.And in a small way he's a little like Harry-both of them hold themselves to really high standards,I think.

But...can it just be a plot device if it's also part of his psychology? I'm sure we've agreed in the past that his personality has been shaped by the fact that he does (or can) become a fully-fledged monster, as well as by much of society treating him like one.


Doesn't that make you wonder? I mean, the fact that his personality has rather been shaped? Doesn't it make you wonder what (or who) he would have been had he not been bitten?

But then, I like him just the way his is, and the "could have beens" are rather uncertain, so I'm not going to go in to the speculation too deeply! :lol:

Yes, you could say it's part of the psychological profile of the character. What I meant was that I wouldn't mind if the beastie never shows it's furry face again. The psychology of a character is always present. We don't need to be reminded every chapter.

I don't think it's necessary to remind us every chapter, or to have the beastie pop up all the time. I was thinking along the lines of an occasional reminder that it still potentially exists, even "offstage". If someone happened to read OOTP without having ever heard of a werewolf, (and I admit that's unlikely) they'd think it was just an uncomfortable illness with an irrational stigma attached - which is not what it was in POA. OK, we did have the chap in the hospital, but considering how important it is to Lupin himself that he doesn't become dangerous, I'd expect someone to mention it.

Do you mean as if she would mention full moon had past, and that's why Lupin was tired? Or Remus simply commenting it in an off-hand way. In all honesty, I don't think that he would. He'd probably not want to have to bring it up.

Remus Lupin in my favorite character. I will be joining that codsmack club and i'll be seeing how much it takes to send fish all the way to Britain. I also hope that Lupin has a greater role in the next two books, he'd be a perfect guardian/helper for harry. All this talk of Peter's supposedly silver hand has got me scared. I hope that it won't be one of those "there can be only one marauder and it's got to be me or you" situations. If that will be a problem, I hope peter goes down!

Well i'm re reading the books again and then maybe i'll notice the part about Pettigrew's silver hand. I think I overlooked that.

I think he stayed in the Forest, worrying centaurs and giant spiders. If all his clothes rip off dramatically when he transforms then, presumably, they had to send a male staff member in with some clothing for him first thing in the morning.
:D

Oh, I can't see Snape being too pleased if he got that job! :rotfl:

I can imagine how many werewolves could be tempted to join forces with Voldemort, though. They've been treated badly by the side that's supposed to be good. Voldemort could promise them more than he could actually give them.

So that could be another reason for Lupin going and talking to the werewolf at St. Mungo's. Of course he was just being friendly, but also to convince the newly-bitten fellow that being a werewolf didn't mean complete segregation from normal wizarding society, which perhaps would have made him more likely to rebel against them and so on and so forth. You get what I mean. :)

I really hope Voldemort doesn't find some way to exploit people's fear of werewolves to make them hunt them down and stuff. I don't think he would though, as he doesn't really seem to have any personal interest in Lupin (as yet anyway).

Sheesh, I really, really, super incredibly don't want Lupin to die!!!! :upset:

And about the cuddly/sexy question - I dont think I'd describe him as being cuddly. There's something about him thats a bit too secretive and mysterious for that. Something a bit distant. (And I think I'd probably say that I found that mystery and distance a bit sexy too).

Lupin doesn't really strike me as a mysterious character, but that depends on how you define it. He's certainly not the type who skulks in dark corners and talks in riddles. Eons ago, when I first joined the fandom, I was actually quite surprised by the degree of fan attachment to Lupin because he's not what you call a "colourful" character. There's little reason to think there's more to him than meets the eye, until his big secret throws a whole new light on things. There's just his poverty and illness to ponder, but what's sexy about those? It fits perfectly with his character that he should want people to think he's ordinary, even boring.

I do think "cuddly" might be the wrong word, but I have trouble thinking of a much better one. I suppose what makes me love him that way is that he has just the right amount of vulnerability - he doesn't beg for sympathy, but nonetheless gives the impression that he'd appreciate it.

Eons ago, when I first joined the fandom, I was actually quite surprised by the degree of fan attachment to Lupin because he's not what you call a "colourful" character.

Me too! I thought people would be far more interested in somebody like Sirius, and that I would be one of he few that liked Professor Lupin this much. How very wrong I was!

I do think "cuddly" might be the wrong word, but I have trouble thinking of a much better one.


Er... how's about... benign? No, well, yes, he is, but I don't think that's the word you're looking for.

The weird thing about Professor Lupin is that his mild manner gives me mixed emotions when I think into it. On the one hand, it's great and admirable that he's so level-headed and, though he's definitely vincible, he doesn't snap at all. On the other hand, I think it would be less sad if he was moody and depressive. Depression is understandable. I keep thinking 'Just shout at somebody, Lupin!'.

Bouncing_Ferret, I think that if werewolves start joing Vodemort, even just out of desperation, that would spark a lot of hatred. It probably will with the giants.

*falls over laughing* I'm sorry.... but the idea of Remus being sexy???? I could see it, but.... it's just so strange! :lol: I love him to death, but.... Benign??? I'm not sure if that's the right word for it. Hmmmm...

*falls over laughing* I'm sorry.... but the idea of Remus being sexy????


Yes, that surprised me too when I first started looking on forums. It was completely unexpected.

I'm not saying this in an insulting way, actually I'm quite fascinated, but it amazes me how so many people the world over can see something that was never described in a person that doesn't really exist. It's a strange phenomenon.

Then again, it's not as weird as people's romantic interest in Snape.

***
Could 'approachable' be the right word? If he was my teacher in school, he would definitely be the one I'd tell about bullying problems or something.

Approachable might be better... What about Undescribable? :D

The Snape thing is stranger.... and more far out than Remus being sexy...

*falls over laughing* I'm sorry.... but the idea of Remus being sexy????

Well, yes, I can see what you mean. He's definitely not the "grrr rip your clothes off with his teeth" type (though I suppose during full moons... ;) ) It's something about that 'troubled-ness' (a word?) that he has that makes him so damned attractive...

Approachable might be better... What about Undescribable?

Aye, that's sounds like a good word. (Perhaps if we just changed it a little to make it 'indescribable' instead) It is hard to come up with anything concrete, isn't it? :) We need a sort of montage of words to describe him I think.

Then again, it's not as weird as people's romantic interest in Snape.

It seems to me that many of the people (me included) on this forum have abnormally high levels of attraction to teachers... Do you think we should investigate some group counselling or something? :p


I think I might go have a little rest now, after all this hard thinking! :agree:

On the other hand, I think it would be less sad if he was moody and depressive. Depression is understandable. I keep thinking 'Just shout at somebody, Lupin!'.

But Lupin's mild manner is understandable. He's saving all his unsubtlety for his time of the month. Just because he doesn't express his feelings like Sirius or Harry doesn't mean he doesn't have them. It's his subtlety and dignity that make him who he is.

"Approachable" is a good word, but I might have been trying to get at "sympathetic" - both giving and deserving sympathy, but he doesn't feel sorry for himself.

But Lupin's mild manner is understandable. He's saving all his unsubtlety for his time of the month. Just because he doesn't express his feelings like Sirius or Harry doesn't mean he doesn't have them. It's his subtlety and dignity that make him who he is.

I didn't say that his subtlety wasn't understandable. I just mean that he'd be excused for reaching out and punching somebody.

I can see what you mean, Cat, I reckon he'd enjoy thumping Snape around the head a few times! It would be good for him - therapy like! :D

I'm positive that Remus was in shock. Maybe during the summer, he'll be rather depressed. It would be horrible, however, if he was suicidal afterwards. But that would be interesting, wouldn't it? I mean, the only suicidal we've met in the series so far is Moaning Myrtle, but as she's already dead, that doesn't count as much.

And in the memory of Snape's that Harry saw in the Pensieve, he probably didmn't try to stop James and Sirius because he was afraid he'd lose the only friends he'd ever had. Remember, he's a werewolf and other people in his hometown most likely shunned him and treated him as their scapegoat, so he'd do anything to keep the first friends he's ever had. It's quite sad really.... :upset: :sad: :upset: I feel so sorry for him, he's my favorite wizard yet.... No, he's my favorite by far....

I didn't say that his subtlety wasn't understandable. I just mean that he'd be excused for reaching out and punching somebody.

He's already nearly killed somebody - isn't that mean enough? I'm becoming increasingly irritated by people on other forums talking about Lupin being "emotionally constipated". Please! It's always risky to do psychiatry on fictional characters (remember the "is Sirius a sociopath" debate). I don't think Lupin would do anyone any good by whacking Snape. Bellatrix, maybe, but he shouldn't become a killer for her sake. I'd excuse him for punching somebody, but I think I'd like him less. There must be plenty of cushions he can punch.

He's already nearly killed somebody - isn't that mean enough?

But that wasn't his fault. If Sirius hadn't played that dangerous prank on Snape and James hadn't stopped him, he wouldn't have been in the position to kill.

I don't think Lupin would do anyone any good by whacking Snape.


Nope, and I'm not saying he really should. I'm saying that it's amazing that he doesn't, particularly in PoA. I probably would have! But Lupin's a better person than me, obviously :D.

All I was trying to say earlier was that the real, mild, gentle-mannered Lupin evokes more feelings of sympathy and sadness towards him than the angsty fan fiction adaptations. The way he just sort of politely gets on with life is admirable but at the same time it make the fact that life has dealt him a lousy hand much worse. So there's mixed feelings there.

Aye, that's sounds like a good word. (Perhaps if we just changed it a little to make it 'indescribable' instead) It is hard to come up with anything concrete, isn't it? :) We need a sort of montage of words to describe him I think.

How about affable? Or genial? Or, if you're feeling ironic - humane. ;)

Sorry about the undescribable.... u and i are quite close together on the keyboard.... :D
Lupin wacking Snape???? That would cause chaos on these forums.... more than usual, I mean!

It would, rather, wouldn't it? We could all do these extensive psychological analyses of the whole situation... and come up with absolutely nothing sensible, of course! :D

No, I think the only way we'll ever see Lupin thwack Snape around the ears is if he somehow chanelled Sirius' spirit! :)

The way he just sort of politely gets on with life is admirable but at the same time it make the fact that life has dealt him a lousy hand much worse.

I agree, it does make you feel awfully sorry for him. But then, I suppose there are a lot of good points to his life as well as bad - even though a lot of society shuns werewolves, Lupin appears to be accepted in the Order (bar Snape, of course), and has friends like Mad-Eye Moody, Tonks, the Weasleys, Dumbledore.

He's also got Harry - I hope Harry and Ron and Hermione make a special effort in future books to be super nice to him, he deserves it. Then there's the Wolfsbane potion - he doesn't have to suffer complete werewolve-ness every full moon, now, which would have improved his life absolutely tons.

Even though he's lost his two absolute best friends by Voldemort or his Death Eaters, so have many other people I guess, so he's not entirely alone in his grieving. Plus, there's the fact that he now knows the truth about Sirius' apparent betrayal, so he's free to remember Sirius as loyal and brave, rather than a traitor, which would have been horrid.

All in all, I think Lupin will be able to cope alright, hopefully with the support of his friends.

But that wasn't his fault. If Sirius hadn't played that dangerous prank on Snape and James hadn't stopped him, he wouldn't have been in the position to kill.

I was talking about him nearly killing Wormtail. He wasn't feeling himself when he nearly killed Snape.

The way he just sort of politely gets on with life is admirable but at the same time it make the fact that life has dealt him a lousy hand much worse.

I see what you mean, and I wonder if it's to do with the fact that he was bitten as a child. I imagine that he grew up expecting to get nothing from the world, and was only too grateful when he did get something. That would explain why he would appreciate those who do accept him more than he's bitter at those who don't. The Lupin-angst fans seem to assume that he measures his fortunes against "normal" people, but it might be that he comapres himself to most werewolves, next to whom he's been pretty lucky apart from losing his friends (which is a huge loss, of course, but lots of "normal" people have also lost friends). If I'm right on all this, it would be interesting to see that new werewolf from St Mungo's again, to compare the reaction of someone bitten when they already had a career, personal life etc.