Questions about Thestrals

1. Why aren't they mentioned in Magical Beasts? Maybe they are and I've just forgotten, but I don't think they were. The book mentioned "winged horses," but the thestrals are quite a bit more than that, aren't they? They're sort of part-dragon, and very skeletal.

2. Why couldn't Harry see the thestrals before? He's seen death--he watched his parents die. Do you have to REMEMBER the death you witnessed in order to see thestrals?

3. What about ghosts? If they never witnessed a death in their life until their own, can they see the thestrals?

5. Do you have to actually be present when they die? If you were a wizard fond of Muggle TV and saw a public execution, would you suddenly start seeing thestrals?

6. Where did number 4 go? :o

I was wondering about why harry hadn't seen them before. He had seen his parents die. He had seen death, but he couldn't see the thestrals. He remembered his parents death too. Well, he at least remembered the light and Voldemort laughing. Maybe he didn't remember their exact death. But now that he had seen Cedric die, he could see them. So I guess you have to remember the person dying to see them.

#1: Keep in mind that "Magical Beasts and Where to Find Them" is not a comprehensive, all-inclusive guide.

#2: My best friend actually asked your #2 question right after we finished the books. I think that may be because Harry, as an infant, may not have actually seen the finishing blow from Voldemort against him mom. He was probably in a crib, wrapped in blankets and quite likely, his direct line of sight was obscured.

#3: No idea. I would think so, but really, I have no idea.

#4:

#5: Just a guess, but I think you would have to be present, or at least see it live. And there really aren't public executions broadcast live anywhere that I am aware of.

#6: Four was turning twinkies into poo.

1. n/a

2. Maybe you need to remember it...

3. I think they can (maybe they need to stand in front of a mirror while they die? (just an idea)


5. i think you have to see it for real, not on tv, tv is just a bunch of pixels that make it look real.

6. Inot too sure

Ya I was also wondering why he couldnt see them, because I thought that he had acctually witnessed his parents death, but I guess that he didnt.

And also, what happened to the Thestrals that they rode to the ministry? did they fly back? Because Harry didnt mention them to DD.

Originally posted by Imortus (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=389922#post389922))
#2: My best friend actually asked your #2 question right after we finished the books. I think that may be because Harry, as an infant, may not have actually seen the finishing blow from Voldemort against him mom. He was probably in a crib, wrapped in blankets and quite likely, his direct line of sight was obscured.




I think this is true. It makes sense that he was in his crib. Its only in the movie, I think, that Lily is holding Harry or I can possilbly making this up. I dunno its late and I can't really remember. However, if Harry was in his crib then it would make sense that he didnt seem them until now.

Lovegood was a name mentioned as one killed by Lord V. but Luna is younger than Harry so chances are that she was born after Lord V dissapered so how did her mother die? It seems to lead us to think that her death was a tradgady of some sort, but Luna remembers it which means that Lord V couldn't have been involved.

Originally posted by Imortus (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=389922#post389922))


#2: My best friend actually asked your #2 question right after we finished the books. I think that may be because Harry, as an infant, may not have actually seen the finishing blow from Voldemort against him mom. He was probably in a crib, wrapped in blankets and quite likely, his direct line of sight was obscured.


yeah exactly I assumed you have to litterally SEE them die and harry has only ever described seeing green light and hearing people talking when it comes to their death.

I think not only do you have to see them die, it has to affect you negatively. That'd explain why Quirrels death didn't cause them to be seen. Harry witnessed the death but it didn't sadden/anger him at all.

Hmm interesting side note tabby!

Originally posted by Crystal (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=391567#post391567))
Lovegood was a name mentioned as one killed by Lord V. but Luna is younger than Harry so chances are that she was born after Lord V dissapered so how did her mother die? It seems to lead us to think that her death was a tradgady of some sort, but Luna remembers it which means that Lord V couldn't have been involved.


Luna mentions that her mother died in a spell accident. Can't remember where... ach! I need my book back!

Originally posted by dumbleedore (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=391767#post391767))
Luna mentions that her mother died in a spell accident. Can't remember where... ach! I need my book back!


American, page 863

"Yes", said Luna simply, "my mother. She was a quite extraordinary witch, you know, but she did like to experiment and one of her spells went rather badly wrong one day. I was nine."

NO offense, but you actually believe Luna's story? :)

I wonder what spell it was that backfired... if that'll be important.

Originally posted by teacup (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=391783#post391783))
NO offense, but you actually believe Luna's story? :)


whats offensive about your question? Its a BOOK.

And Luna is out there, but I dont think shes lying. She marches to the beat of a different drummer, but I dont think the things she says are intentional fibs.

Originally posted by teacup (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=391783#post391783))
NO offense, but you actually believe Luna's story? :)


Why would she be lying? She had no problem finding and mounting a thestral so she must be able to see them. What would be the point in lying about her mothers death?

There's also the fact that she mentioned her father numerous times throughout the book but not once did she mention her mother other than about her death.

Just a quick q: is Luna Lovegood the same Lovegood's that are mentioned in GoF about having been at the cup for a week already?

I think so. I'd have to ask JKR to know for sure though and I seem to have misplaced her phone number. ;)

That means she's near the Weasleys. Perhaps we could see her at the borrow sometime? Assuming the Weasleys are back there next year.

You misconstrue what I meant. I don't mean she's intentionally decieving Harry. I think she genuinely believes that her mum died in a spell backfiring or whatever.

Whether that turns out to be the truth, and the whole truth... well I strongly doubt it. It'd be pointless to put in if that was it. I mean yeah she could see the Thestrals, and it might contribute to her loopiness, but I feel there is a bigger story behind her than that.

Originally posted by teacup (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=391830#post391830))
You misconstrue what I meant. I don't mean she's intentionally decieving Harry. I think she genuinely believes that her mum died in a spell backfiring or whatever.

Whether that turns out to be the truth, and the whole truth... well I strongly doubt it. It'd be pointless to put in if that was it. I mean yeah she could see the Thestrals, and it might contribute to her loopiness, but I feel there is a bigger story behind her than that.


I see your point, but i think it can go both ways. Why would it be pointless? that part of the story doesnt have to be a specific forshadowing plot device. I saw it as a way to bond Harry and Luna a little more, which in itself may be a forshadowing of a future colaboration (and i dont mean romantic, honestly)

I've been thinking, what if Harry's mum isn't really dead? It's the thestrals you see, prior to OotP Harry couldn't see them. At the end of GoF Harry witnessed Cedric's death thereby allowing him to see the thestrals. But surely as he witnessed his mother's death at the age of 1 he should have been able to see them from the start of his time at Hogwarts? So what if his mum's not really dead? Maybe she was a follower of Voldemort, or a dupicate of her body had been replaced in Godric's Hollow? Far fetched I know, but the thestral thing still has me wondering.... What d'ya think? :evil:

Well now that you mention it that could be a possibility... it's just something that feels so right though :P

I'm not sure what to think but JK has said previously that neither Lily or James will apear alive again in the series. Perhaps you have to remember the death.

No, his mom is dead, remember in Goblet, her ghost came out of Voldemort's wand. The big question is, why, if the ghosts appeared in the order the wand killed them, did James appear before Lilly, when it's been established that he was killed before her?

Questions, questions, and only JK knows!:yup:

I notice that Neville could see the Thestrals too. Does this mean that his story is even worse than his parents getting tortured into insanity?

Yes, I wondered that. Neville says he saw his grandfather die, but is that the whole truth?

Originally posted by bubblesofdeath88 (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=389932#post389932))
Ya I was also wondering why he couldnt see them, because I thought that he had acctually witnessed his parents death, but I guess that he didnt.

And also, what happened to the Thestrals that they rode to the ministry? did they fly back? Because Harry didnt mention them to DD.
But I think Harry only HEARD his parents being killed (particularly his mother), I don't think he actually saw her killed. Whereas, Harry saw Cedric get killed.

Will those that were inolved in the fight when Sirius was killed now be able to see the Thestrals?

yes, but as Ron and Hermione weren't there, only Neville was, no one new would be albe to see them. I expect Dumbledore and all the adults have seen death anyway.

1. Why aren't they mentioned in Magical Beasts? Maybe they are and I've just forgotten, but I don't think they were. The book mentioned "winged horses," but the thestrals are quite a bit more than that, aren't they? They're sort of part-dragon, and very skeletal.

Perhaps for the same reason that Boggarts aren't in Fantastic Beasts, whatever that reason it. Perhaps because they're too rare to be listed. Perhaps they weren't discovered when Newt Scamander wrote Fantastic Beasts. Perhaps Ms Rowling only came up with the concept of them AFTER she'd written Fantastic Beasts?


2. Why couldn't Harry see the thestrals before? He's seen death--he watched his parents die. Do you have to REMEMBER the death you witnessed in order to see thestrals?

Harry did not see his parents die. He saw green light. That is all he saw.

3. What about ghosts? If they never witnessed a death in their life until their own, can they see the thestrals?

Probably. Seeing your own death has to have some effect on you.

5. Do you have to actually be present when they die? If you were a wizard fond of Muggle TV and saw a public execution, would you suddenly start seeing thestrals?

Yes, I'm sure you have to really see it. Seeing a death on telly is nothing like seeing one in reality.

6. Where did number 4 go?

It sadly went beyond the black Veil, I think...

Well, assuming that the students get back to the train station from Hogwarts the same way they go there (by carriage, thestrals pulling), why didn't Harry or, Rowling, point out this at the end of book 4? Or did he get back to the station a different way? A friend has my book 4 so I can't check, but Cedric died before Harry went back, so why didn't he see them whilst going back to the station?

I think everything else has been covered. :)

I wondered that too, Bocoson. But I looked up the passage in GOF and Rowling only mentions Hermione looking at the horseless carriages. Maybe Harry was so preoccupied that he did not notice the thestrals; although, I have no idea how he wouldn't notice winged horses.

Boggarts and HinkyPunks are in Fantastic Beasts either.

*aren't

Originally posted by MissFlibble (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=392273#post392273))
Boggarts and HinkyPunks are in Fantastic Beasts either.


Not even Hinkypunks? That's surprising. I was thinking that maybe Boggarts could in some way be defined as 'beings' or 'spirits' but I don't think Hinkypunks could...

Maybe certain Dark creatures have catagories of their own? And perhaps Thestrals are considered Dark creatures...?

Throughout the whole series, I've been suspecting in the back of my mind that Lily might still be alive, but after that Priori Incantatem business in GoF, it's becoming more unlikely. Does anyone here have a link to the interview where JK said that we'll never see a live Lily and James? Maybe she said something slightly different, but people have talked about it so much that it got slightly distorted. I think it would be really cool though if Lily was still alive. We're supposed to find out something huge about her in the last book, after all....

The James/Lily Proir Incantatem thing was a mistake; I think it might have been changed in later editions.

JKR has said somewhere that we wont see either of them alive again, meaning their dead I presume (she phrased it in a way so that we cant rule out Lily being a ghost...)

After the lesson with the thestrals in Hagrids class, Hermione said there were three people that could see them. I know Harry and Neville can see them, who was the third? Was that Hagrid or someone else I missed?

Well Luna can see them but she isn't in their class. So I'm not sure.:??:

The thrird was a boy in slytherine but we don't know his name.

I got the feeling Neville MAY have just said that because he didn't really want to show his 'cards' to Umbridge (did I spell that wrong??) let alone his class AND Slytherine people after all he didn't want people to know about his mum and dad

1. Why aren't they mentioned in Magical Beasts? Maybe they are and I've just forgotten, but I don't think they were. The book mentioned "winged horses," but the thestrals are quite a bit more than that, aren't they? They're sort of part-dragon, and very skeletal.

I don't think JK meant to write them as they are but changed her mind upon writing the fifth book...


2. Why couldn't Harry see the thestrals before? He's seen death--he watched his parents die. Do you have to REMEMBER the death you witnessed in order to see thestrals?

I am guessing you have to REMEMBER the death...
your question is also my question

3. What about ghosts? If they never witnessed a death in their life until their own, can they see the thestrals?
I think they can.. they have first-hand experience of death after all

5. Do you have to actually be present when they die? If you were a wizard fond of Muggle TV and saw a public execution, would you suddenly start seeing thestrals?
I guess public execution isn't as shocking as someone dying right in front of you.. . It's First-hand experience anyway... TV.. I think it is more of second-hand even if it was live

6. Where did number 4 go?

they are visible only to those who have witnessed death...-_-?

They are mentioned in Fantastic Beasts under Winged Horses.

What about Neville hie parents were killed when he was a baby and has not witnessed a death since so how come he saw them?

... on the night Harry's parents died. i have seen mentions of this traced along other topics, but i think it deserves one of its own.

First, in book III, Harry's memories of that night are of Lilly's pleas, and then a flash of green light. i remember that somewhere in the books we are told that James attempted to delay Lord Voldemort while Lilly took care of Harry, but i can't recall the circumstances this was stated under.

In book IV, however, the shadow of James comes out of The Dark Lord's wand before Lily's, indicating beyond doubt that he was killed more recently (i read someone saying that this was a 'printing error' or something - that's ridiculous.)

And then, again, in book V, we receive further evidence that what we think we know is incorrect. Harry can only see the thestrals after having witnessed Cedric's death - but hadn't he supposedly already witnessed his mother's? Apparently not....

We also know, from Harry's memories in book III, that Voldemort was trying to avoid killing Lilly. Why would he, though? He doesn't exactly strike me the type to avoid surplus murder. Also, why did Lilly resign to pleading? According to the description we received so far, she could at least have tried to disarm him ... and if James was delaying Voldemort while Lilly took care of Harry's safety, couldn't she had done any better?

We can probably assume for certain that Harry's mum died to defend him, or otherwise the charm protecting Harry would not work.

We can also be sure that Voldemort has tried to perform Avada Kedavra on Harry, and that it backfired, because we have the scar and Voldemort's testimony on this (book IV). We also know for sure James died standing 'like a man' from the same source.

Does anyone think this could be tied, somehow, to Neville's poor memory? After having seen that he is also very significant in relation to The Dark Lord and the profecy, i feel very justified in bringing him into consideration. Harry's memories in book III seem reliable, but Neville's memory is poor enough to indicate some sort of powerful memory charm ... maybe he had gotten involved with Lord Voldemort without his knowledge?

i'm going to reread all the relevant portions of the book and try to figure this out. You're all welcome to join me....

His parents weren't killed at all. It was his grandfather's death he saw.

In Fantastic Beasts it has, under Winged horses the Abraxan (the kind that Madame Maxime had to pull her carriage in GoF), the Aethonan, and Granian, and then it says ...and the rare Thestral (black, possesed of the power of invisibility and considered unlucky for many wizards). So they can become invisible...does that mean they can tell who has and who hasn't seen death and kind of change accordingly?:??:

James coming out first is certainly an interesting point and I haven't seen any confirmations that it was a printing error.

ahh yes thank you for correcting me Puffskein, yes it was his grandad. Still my question stands how come Neville could see the thestrals even though he was a baby and most problerly could not remeber (just like harry) the murder. he hasnt seen any other deaths has he? and if he still remembers surely harry would too

His grandfather wasn't murdered Scabbers. We don't know when or how he died, just that he did and Neville witnessed it. He could have simply died of old age.

i always thought lily came out first cause she goes "hang on your father wants to see you" or something like that, so she comes out first, but weren't the only people at godric hollow lily, james, and harry, and two of them are dead and one was a baby,

but then there is the thing with nevillie maybe his parents also lived near the potter's and nevillie could have found out from his grandparents or somethingand that might be why some one put a memory charm on him, they didn't want harry knowing what happened at godric hollow? just a thought...

ahh what ever :)
still neville saw him die, when he was a baby, he shouldnt be able to see the thestrals

raven: I thought about that too but I think JK just made some mistake with the Priori Incantatem.

Anyway, I think we will be able to know what really happened that night. I was thoroughly convinced after book 3 that Harry hearing his parents death was the end of the puzzle in Godric's Hollow. But after GoF and OotP, i think there's more.

Besides, Godric's Hollow, as in Godric Gryffindor. What's up with living in a village named after the founder of Gryffindor house?

Where does it say Neville was a baby when he died?

Can Hagrid see them??? as he is probably the one who hooks them up to the carrages isnt he?

JKR just said on the live webcast just now that the Thestrals were always there, but that she didn't want to bring them into the story yet...so she decided that people could only see them when they actually had to deal with a death and let it sink in. Harry was too young to understand death when his parents died.

She also says something about their having been mentioned in one of the Comic Relief books, but I didn't remember which one, I was busy typing Snape revelations. :D.

They are mentioned in Fantastic Beasts! They're mentioned under 'Winged Horses', but only briefly.

sorry, it was definately a printing error. Later editions of the book have James coming out of the wand first. I was a little disapointed we didn't get more about this in OOTP, at least an explaination of Godrics hollow!

sorry, it was definately a printing error. Later editions of the book have James coming out of the wand first. I was a little disapointed we didn't get more about this in OOTP, at least an explaination of Godrics hollow!
And according to the story we've been told, Lilly should've come first.

I'm pretty sure lilbit meant Lily - I have one of the earlier editions, and James comes out first, but my Mom has a later one, and Lily comes out first. JKR realized she made a mistake and fixed it in later editions

No, JKR explained why he couldn;t see the thestrals before, he had to process the death, really understand it, before he could see them. He was just too youg when lily and James died.

I'm pretty sure lilbit meant Lily - I have one of the earlier editions, and James comes out first, but my Mom has a later one, and Lily comes out first. JKR realized she made a mistake and fixed it in later editions

right. I'm a goofball!! meant Lily. Sorry.:D

The thing with Priori Incantatem IS a mistake! It WAS corrected! I have both a book with the error and the corrected version! Lily comes out first in the corrected version, and then James.

The thing that bugs me is that it is said EVERYWHERE that James was the BEST at everything! How then could he have been killed seemingly so easily by Voldemort. And by the sounds of it, Lily wasn't bad either! How could Voldemort have gotten by so...so...easily when he was up against the best of that years class?! Is Voldemort that powerful? For me, and obviously a lot of other people, there is something missing in the story of their deaths that we have yet to find out.

When Dumbledore said that he was going to tell Harry "everything"....well, I don't think he did. To a certain extent.

I agree. There must be something more but... Avada Kedavra is as Avada Kedavra does. It kills. There is no countercurse (supposedly....) what could they have done? Why not apparate away! They stood and fought! Grab the kid and run! Ugh... I agree with this theory. Something else must have been at work.

"We also know, from Harry's memories in book III, that Voldemort was trying to avoid killing Lilly. Why would he, though? He doesn't exactly strike me the type to avoid surplus murder. Also, why did Lilly resign to pleading? According to the description we received so far, she could at least have tried to disarm him ... and if James was delaying Voldemort while Lilly took care of Harry's safety, couldn't she had done any better?"

well.. you know how she gave him the protection when she died?... she probably thought that there is no chance they would BOTH survive so she just stayed there knowing that if she sacrificed herself, she can put the protection(mentioned in book 5) on Harry. Just a thought... I don't know if anybody posted this idea before

We can find some clues in the movie. I heard that JKR had a lot of input in SS, when the screen flashes back to when Harry was attacked? James did tell Lily to run for it, while he stalled time with Voldemort. As far as we can know, James put up a decent fight and was killed. But the movie showed Lily running into a bedroom and slaming the door. Um...the bedroom's safe from Voldemort? I would have run outside to find backup or something.
Anyway, the movie showed Harry and Lily wearing Muggle clothing. Maybe there was a special reason for that? As we don't have that much imformation, we can only guess.........

There is a very interesting article about this on the harry potter lexicon go here to read it:
http://www.hp-lexicon.org/timeline_potters.html

The movie is NOT the book, and details in the movie should not be used to support theories about the book

Interesting.... I have never thought about that before!

I just remembered, Didnt Hagrid see them? Who did he see die?
Or was it his father? I cant remember much about that from the first books, better re-read ;D

Originally posted by Omi (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=413234#post413234))
I just remembered, Didnt Hagrid see them? Who did he see die?
Or was it his father? I cant remember much about that from the first books, better re-read ;D

Of course Hagrid can se them. How else would he train them? I thik it is more a matter that he was a member of the original Order. He most likely saw plenty of death. :( Most, if not all, of the Order could probably see them as well.

Harry may have been in the same house/room but he may not have seen them die.
Second, later books are said to have the order corrected that they came out of the wand.

I'm going to merge this ("We Don't Really Know What Happened at Godric's Hollow") with a previous thread ("Harry's Mum. . .) which deals with pretty much the same subject. :)

has any1 eva thought that maybe harry wasnt in the same room as his parents when they were killed

Why couldn't Harry see the thestrals years 1-4? He had seen a death... Two, actually. When he was a little over a year old, his saw his parents die.

And don't tell me he has no memory of it... It's tucked away in the back of his head, because he hears their death when he gets too close to a dementor, and had dreams about it.

So he'd seen two deaths.... Why couldn't he see the thestrals until Cedric died?

He has no memory of it. Or he actually didn't see them die or dead at all.
But no matter what anyone says he should have seen them at the end of book 4 when the "horseless carriages" took the students to the Hogwarts Express.

But no matter what anyone says he should have seen them at the end of book 4 when the "horseless carriages" took the students to the Hogwarts Express.
[/quote]

I agree, Oddfellow, I guess thats just another error by J.K. Rowling

JK probably just never thought of them until the 5th book so she just ingnored all that

JKR did explain why Harry didn't see them in book 4. There is a transcript of the interwiev in 'Book Five Discussion' at the top of the page. The thread name is 'JK Rowling Webcast transcript'.

Why can you only see thestrals after you've seen death? What makes the thestrals visible? Is there something we don't know about thestrals?

I think thestrals are maybe creatures of death; perhaps they come from behind the veil in the Death Chamber. Maybe something special happens to wizards/witches after they've seen death, some change in their mind. Also, maybe we're not completely clear on what thestrals really are; perhaps JKR will give us some more information on them in the future.

Any thoughts?

Lots of death references in this book and thestrals are one more. To name a few:

Mrs. Weasley's boggart
Sirius's dead mother
Heads of dead house elves
The veil in dept. of mysteries

Thestrals aren't bad creatures. Hagrid says "tha's jus' superstition, ... they aren't unlucky, they're dead clever an' useful!" Later he says about their sense of direction and how you'll never be lost again if you have a thestral.

They came in useful getting the six to the MoM. Wonder if they will show up in future books.

Anyone know anything about the name origin?

Its no point even to speculate. It is JK that decide the rules, so we cannot use our logic to figure this out. It could be that the thestrals have skin that absorbs the light that hits it, and emmits an elecromagical field, and upon hitting the souldust left by the soul of the dying person, is broken into elecromagnetic radiation which hit the cones and rods. Simple as that.

I agree thats its really impossable to even begin to try to guess.

"I agree thats its really impossable to even begin to try to guess"

Heh, the mere thought about beginning to try to guess hadn't even begun to speculate about the merest possibility of crossing my mind :p

I think maybe it will come up later in the books sometime but redcape is right...there are many speculations on death throughout the book! It seems there are many speculations on death throughout all 5 books!

Yeah, I suppose. I mean, even if we could figure something out logically, JKR would probably go and contradict us anyway!

Originally posted by RedCape (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?postid=479220#post479220))
Anyone know anything about the name origin?

My best guess is that it is from this obsolete term "thester". Here's the entry from the OED:
thester, n.
Obs.
[OE. Ã_estru, éostru, fem. (orig. of the -î decl.) = OS. thiustrî; also OE. Ã_estre, éostre, pl. -ru, neut.; f. THESTER a.]

Darkness. lit. and fig.

There is also an adjectival form meaning dark, and a verbal form meaning to make dark.

I think there must be a lot off stuff about James & Lily's death we don't know about. However, perhaps Harry did not see their deaths, and when Cedric died was when he could see the Thestrals.

Simplest explanation is that Harry was looking in another direction when his mother died.

Getting back to who the Slytherin boy who could see the thestrals was... Does anyone know who this is?

Could it have been Nott? Malfoy, Crabbe and Goyle begin hanging out with a Slytherin named Nott after Harry exposes their fathers. Do the descriptions match? I think it says that Nott was younger, though.

JKR said you have to be aware of the death, and baby Harry wasn't old enough to understand what had happened. Looking back, he can put it together, but at the time he didn't know about anything except for the green light.

The Thestrals are magic, and that's why only people who have seen death can see them.

There are probably a lot more "secrets" about Hogwarts and the wizarding world that Harry will discover in the last two books. But I hope we see more of the Thestrals.

At the end of Book 4, they did use the horseless carriages. Rowling didn't mention the thestrals, but I suppose Harry might not have been looking too carefully at the what was pulling the carriages...

Harry not seeing the thestrals at the end of GoF was a goof by JKR. She explained it away by saying the death had to "sink in".

Originally posted by LoonyLunaLovegood (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?postid=392542#post392542))
After the lesson with the thestrals in Hagrids class, Hermione said there were three people that could see them. I know Harry and Neville can see them, who was the third? Was that Hagrid or someone else I missed?

It was, significantly I think, a boy from Slytherin.

Yes, it was a "stringy Slytherin boy."

Yeah, and he was looking at the thestrals with a look of disgust, I think. I wonder if that's going to have importance in the future?

Originally posted by Fortescue (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?postid=480874#post480874))
Yeah, and he was looking at the thestrals with a look of disgust, I think. I wonder if that's going to have importance in the future?

Hmm, if he was really looking at them in disgust (and I'm afraid I had forgotten that aspect of it) then maybe whoever died had died recently, because Harry's first response to them was to be disgusted as well, but then he comes to see them as beautiful. My theory is that this Slytherin boy was a relative of a Death Eater killed by Voldemort - any thoughts on who that might be, particularly if it were someone killed recently? I've said before that it is important that Slytherins, too, have suffered at the hands of Voldemort, and that this fact might be the basis for some sort of liason between members of slytherin and those of the other 3 houses. So this thestral-seeing boy might be important!

Regulus (Sirius' brother, not sure about the spelling) died at the hands of Voldemort or at least on Voldemort's orders...but it's just a thought. There are soo many possibilities.

Maybe Harry couldn't see the Thestrals at the end of book 4 because he was still coping on what he saw at the cemetary, seeing Cedric die, dueling Lord Voldemort, his parents coming out of his wand. I know I couldn't relieve what Harry just saw in that short period of time.

Well, maybe death needs time to dwell on it before it "sinks in..."

I think not only do you have to see them die, it has to affect you negatively. That'd explain why Quirrels death didn't cause them to be seen. Harry witnessed the death but it didn't sadden/anger him at all.

Only in the movie did Harry see Q die in the Book DD takes care of him :evil: :evil:

i have participated in a discussion like this before on another site. how i remember our conclusion to be was that death had to sink in. with harry, his parents deaths never sunk in because all he really remembers is the light. plus, his mother shielded him...so maybe he couldn't really see it.

basically, cedric's death is what triggered him being able to see the thestrals. he was there, remembered it, brought him back to his family, and had to relive it a few times to tell people exactly what happened.

yeah, it probably didn't have time to 'sink in' in the fourth book...either that or he just didn't notice, being preoccupied with other things...

yeah, it probably didn't have time to 'sink in' in the fourth book...either that or he just didn't notice, being preoccupied with other things...
He was just working on autopilot. He hadn't had time to process the information.

I think Fortescue (and a few others) got it.

Baby Harry didn't actually witness the death of his parents, he never saw them fall and was also probably too young to process the information. Check the the Dementor flashbacks, you hear voices and see the green flash, no dead bodies.

GoF Harry saw Cedric get killed and had an awful lot of other stuff to take in in such a short period of time, he was in complete shock, none of his sensors were firing properly. So either he was still in shock on the carriage ride back to the train, or he was preoccupied and simply didn't notice that on the trip back there was now critters pulling the "horseless" carriages. Maybe if he had been paying attention and looked out the window, he would have seen the Thestrals.

ok here's just a thought.

when harry, luna, hermione, ron, neville and ginny travelled by the testrals when they were going to the Ministry of Magic, didnt anybody spot them (or isnt there a huge chance) that somebody might spot them as they reached they decended to their destionation? see, only the thestrals were invisible (at least to those who havent witnessed death) but the six of them were not under any invisibility cloak or anything like that...

isnt that dangerous considering the circumstances?

Yes, you're right... Someone definetely could have(And very well may have) spotted them. But that wasn't and isn't the cheif concern. I mean now everyone knows Voldy's back so that's way more important then muggles seeing children flying on nothing...

LOL That's a VERY funny though though.! I wonder... hehe

Haha, good thought!

Now that I think about it, it was definently dangerous for them to just go off like that. they should have thought about it, but i guess Harry was in such a hurry, he couldn't have cared less if anyone saw them anyway.

That was something that came up in my mind as well..

..Though it was dark out, wasn't it? That could make it harder to spot them. Unless you were looking hard, I would think they might be a bit hard to spot. Plus it was mentioned that Dumbledore has traveled on a Thestral before, so maybe to wizards at least it wouldn't be too much of a surprise to see people traveling like that.

Granted they knew what a Thestral was.. it might be an odd scene of they didn't. XD

The death we know most about in harry's 4th year was Cedrics. Then the next year he started seeing thestrals. BUT, was he not in the presence or in sight of his parents own death? The closest to this answer i saw was in the movie. #1. She was hit while holding harry. then while he was sitting somewhere in the house he put the avada attemped on him. does this count as a death?

I didn't read all the posts so sorry if someone's already mentioned this : Didn't Harry see Professor Quirrel die is PS/SS?

Doesn't that death count? So, he really should have been aware of them at the end of year 1.

And seriously why hasn't anyone mentioned that the "horseless carriages" are actually driven be the thestrals? At any point in their school time at Hogwarts?

ok I think all of your questions have been covered, but I just have something interesting to add in about thestrals. I was reading my Greek Mythology book (yet again ;) ) and I noticed that when Hades (the god of the dead and the underworld) kidnapped Persephone (the daughter of Demeter, goddes of the harvest) he took her to the underworld on a chariot harnessed to black horses. I just thought that was interesting. hehe

Does that mean you think the threstals are going to carry all the students off to the under world? Actually sounded crazy to me at first but now that I'm thinking about it, its not that far fetched. Maybe Voldy will have some power over them and carry someone off to the viel or him or ok i'm rambeling now I'll stop.

When reading the part where Hagrid introduces thestrals to Harry's class, there were three things I noticed:
- Apart from Harry and Neville "a stringy Slytherin boy" could see the thestrals. Later, Theodore Nott is described as "a weedy-looking boy". Was it him that could see the thestrals?
- Hagrid was explaining the uses of Thestrals, and said they dont do much at Hogwarts "unless Dumbledore's taking a long journey an' don' want to Apparate". I cant think if it has relavance in future books, but its a interesting point to make.
- Hagrid could see the Thestrals, as he pointed them out when they were coming. Who has he seen who has died?

It probably was Nott - there aren't that many Slytherin boys.

Did Hagrid see his father die? We don't know, do we?

1. Why aren't they mentioned in Magical Beasts? Maybe they are and I've just forgotten, but I don't think they were. The book mentioned "winged horses," but the thestrals are quite a bit more than that, aren't they? They're sort of part-dragon, and very skeletal.
they are mentioned under winged horses...it says they are rare, have the power of invisibility and are considered unlucky...not much but still there
2. Why couldn't Harry see the thestrals before? He's seen death--he watched his parents die. Do you have to REMEMBER the death you witnessed in order to see thestrals?
JK said that the death has to sink in
3. What about ghosts? If they never witnessed a death in their life until their own, can they see the thestrals?
a person who becomes a ghost hasn't really died...remember what Nick said he doesn't know what it's like to die
5. Do you have to actually be present when they die? If you were a wizard fond of Muggle TV and saw a public execution, would you suddenly start seeing thestrals?
again, the death has to sink in so it probably has to be someone you know

also i assume hagrid saw his father die...can't think of anyone else he might have seen

I think the reason that Hagrid can see the Thestrals is due to being a member of the Order the first time around. He most likely saw plenty of people die. :sad:

what about at the end of Goblet of fire??!! harry had already witnessed cedric's death, bu they rode the carriages back to the hogsmeade station...why couldnt harry see them then?? he had JUST WITNESSED cedrics death days before...

american version (pgs 725-726):

"'You'd better hurry up!' Ron called loudly after her. 'The carriages'll be here in a minute!'......Hermione turned away, smiling at the horseless carriages that were now trundling toward them up the drive, as Krum, looking surprised but gratified, signed a fragment of parchment for Ron."

why couldn't harry see the thestrals then??

I just finished book four, and I noticed this as well! I think it was a mistake by JKR. Some people think that death takes time to sink in. Sink in, schmink in, I say :) She didn't have to add the part about the carriages in. It doesn't bother me too much, I just think it's funny.

JK Rowling herself said that it takes time for the death to sink in. Odviously she didn't want to cover the Thestral topic that late in book four. It made sense for her to wait until five so she could cover it fully.

JK Rowling herself said that it takes time for the death to sink in. Odviously she didn't want to cover the Thestral topic that late in book four. It made sense for her to wait until five so she could cover it fully.

But Maybe Harry did'nt see the thestrals before because he (maybe) didn't see the moment his mum was killed, i mean he was doing something else like playing or something... I think thats why.



ACCIO Book 6

I sure this has been stated several times in this topic, but people still apparently haven't seen it, so:

1. Harry was too young when his parents were killed to comprehend death, plus if you look at the Dementor Flashbacks, you'll see that Harry never saw them die or dead, only the Flash.

2. Regarding the end of Book 4, JKR did indeed say that she didn't want to get into the Thestral thing at the end of Book 4, so she created a rule for herself, that you need to fully process the death and let it sink in. Personally I prefer my own explanation that he was in shock and simply didn't notice that there was something visible pulling the carriages on the ride back to the station

In the first book Harry does not witness Quirrel's death. Only in the movie. Dumbledore informs Harry that Quirrell died when Voldemort left him.

I've said this before: even if as a baby, he actually saw his mum die (James was trying to hold Voldie back as Lily escaped with Harry) and forgot it,

In PS/SS, Harry saw Professor Quirrel die. So, at the end of Year One or the end of Year Two, Harry should've been able to see the Thestrals!

I just checked the book. It looks like Quirrel was dying - maybe he didn't die in front of Harry but he was dying...

Harry only saw Quirrel die in the movie, not in the book which is what takes precedence.

You know what. I have a question: did only Harry, Neville and Luna see Sirius falling through the veil? I mean, from students? If it is so, we won't be able to know if he died or not, because these three people already witnessed someone's death and see thestrals. Also, the fall behind the veil may be not counting as "witnessing the death".

You know what. I have a question: did only Harry, Neville and Luna see Sirius falling through the veil? I mean, from students? If it is so, we won't be able to know if he died or not, because these three people already witnessed someone's death and see thestrals. Also, the fall behind the veil may be not counting as "witnessing the death".
Luna didn't see Sirius fall through the veil. She got hit by a hex from one of the Death Eaters. Harry and Neville were there when it happened.

As for the theory that maybe you have to see the person die to explain why Harry didn't see the Thestrals before - Harry didn't see Cedric die either. He was just there. His scar was hurting so bad that his vision was blurred and he closed his eyes. After he heard the killing curse he was afraid to look up becuase he was sure that Cedric had to be dead. J.K. Rowling's explanation why Harry didn't see them before was because death has to "sink in" before.

I thought Harry should have been able to see the thestrals before the Fifth book. He couldn't see them in his first year, but his parents died?
Harry was only 1 at the time so maybe he couldn't really remember as he was so young but after the third book Harry's memories were awaken by the Dementors so I thought he should have sen them in his fourth year at least. However, I realised that technically Hary saw Quirrel die.
He should have been able to see them after his first year.

I think that Rowling skirted consistency to introduce us to thestrals. Speaking as a mother, I cannot believe Harry was caged in a crib when Voldemort struck, Lily would have been holding him and shielding him with her body. I think he experienced it in full force. He also saw Quirrel and Cedric die. Harry has seen death before book five, but what a nice way to form a league of students who have faced death. The common bond of seeing the great beasts can't be faked. Malfoy money cannot buy it. Weasley integrity cannot earn it. The ability to see threstrals cuts across houses. As a common bond in a group who have not chosen membership, the slight inconsistency of the timing for Harry's seeing thestrals is not a big deal.

[QUOTE=Freezair]1. I dont' have my copy of Magical Beasts with me, but in an interview JK says that she did put them in the book, because she knew that thestrals would come into play.

2. Well Harry had seen his parents death and then he had seen Cedric's death at the end of book four so you think he would def. have seen them, but he didn't. So the answer is that the death has to 'really sink in' before you can see Thestrals, that's also from an interview.

3. I'm not sure if ghosts can see thestrals but I imagine they would be able to.

5. Ya, you actually have to see the death to be able to see thestrals, at least that is what I have understood.

Hope this helps, and if I can find the link to the interview that JK talked about the thestrals I'll add it to this post.

Yes, it was a "stringy Slytherin boy."


From context clues throughout the fifth book, I think the stringy, Slytherin boy is Theodore Nott. I can't be sure but I think I remember Hermoine talking about him, and the two descriptions seem to match. His father, like Crabbe, Goyle, and Malfoy's is a deather eater, so do you think he saw die?

1. Why aren't they mentioned in Magical Beasts? Maybe they are and I've just forgotten, but I don't think they were. The book mentioned "winged horses," but the thestrals are quite a bit more than that, aren't they? They're sort of part-dragon, and very skeletal.

2. Why couldn't Harry see the thestrals before? He's seen death--he watched his parents die. Do you have to REMEMBER the death you witnessed in order to see thestrals?

3. What about ghosts? If they never witnessed a death in their life until their own, can they see the thestrals?

5. Do you have to actually be present when they die? If you were a wizard fond of Muggle TV and saw a public execution, would you suddenly start seeing thestrals?

6. Where did number 4 go? :o

__________________________________________________ _________________

1. Maybe the person who wrote Magical Beasts had never seen death meaning that he couldn't see them. If you can't see them it's hard to know that they are even around. When Hagrid asked who could see the Thestrals in OotP, it was only a few students in the class and take that percentage and use it to calculate out of the whole wizarding world, who could see them then it would be a small percentage of people. So it would be hard to get any information about them.

Didn't Hagrid say that thestrals were usually used to significate evil things so maybe many wizards and witches are scared of them believeing they have ties with evilness and the author may have kept them out of his book.

2. Well HP was in his crib and maybe he technically didn't see his parents, his only view was at the ceiling.

3. A question I can't answer but ghosts have seen death, their own, so my guess is that they can.

5. Good question. That one is out of my league but I think you have to be present of the death to see thestrals.

6. Who knows?!

[QUOTE=Freezair]1. I dont' have my copy of Magical Beasts with me, but in an interview JK says that she did put them in the book, because she knew that thestrals would come into play.

2. Well Harry had seen his parents death and then he had seen Cedric's death at the end of book four so you think he would def. have seen them, but he didn't. So the answer is that the death has to 'really sink in' before you can see Thestrals, that's also from an interview.

3. I'm not sure if ghosts can see thestrals but I imagine they would be able to.

5. Ya, you actually have to see the death to be able to see thestrals, at least that is what I have understood.

Hope this helps, and if I can find the link to the interview that JK talked about the thestrals I'll add it to this post.
The Thestrals are mentioned in Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them under winged horses

2. Harry was too young to realize what had happened. He heard his mother being killed but he didn't realize what had happened until some ten years later.

Winged Horse
M.O.M. Classification: XX-XXXX
Winged horses exist worldwide. There are many different breeds, including the Abraxan (immensely powerful giant palominos), the Aethonan (chestnut, popular in Britain and Ireland), the Granian (grey and particualy fast) and the rare Thestral (black, possessed of the power of invisibility and considered unlucky by many wizards). As with the Hippogriff, the owner of a winged horse is required to perform a Disillusionment Charm upon it at regualr intervals (see Introduction).

2. Why couldn't Harry see the thestrals before? He's seen death--he watched his parents die. Do you have to REMEMBER the death you witnessed in order to see thestrals?
My opinion: Nick said that people become ghosts, because they are afraid of dying. Therefore, they would have never accepted that they died, and wouldnt have taken it in fully, so they wont see a Thestral. If, however, they saw a different death, not their own, then they would see Thestrals.

5. Do you have to actually be present when they die? If you were a wizard fond of Muggle TV and saw a public execution, would you suddenly start seeing thestrals?
Interesting question, but I doubt it could be relavent to the books in the future! :P

Don't know if anyone else has mentioned this,but I think that not only do you have to see the death, but it also has to sink in before you can see the Threstals.

As a baby, Harry only remembered bits and pieces of his mother's death. He remembers the laugh, and a bright light, but not his mom actually dying and falling to the ground. Hence, no threstals. In the Stone, Harry was hanging on to Quirrel when he heard someone, maybe in his head yelling "Harry, Harry!" before he passed out, so he didn't see Quirrel's death either. In fact, when he woke up in the hospital wing, the first thing that he told Dumbledore was "Quirrel's trying to take the Stone!" Dumbledore had to actually tell him that Quirrel was dead, so he didn't see the actual death. So therefore, still no threstals.

In GoF, however, he saw Cedric killed before his very eyes; he was in shock, especially after Moody turned out to be..well...not Moody. Afterwards, I think his mind shut down for a bit out of pure self-preservation. He didn't want to think about cedric's death, he wanted to forget it in a sense, he wanted to think about other things. The death did not have time to sink in yet, and I think he was still in a state of shock when he got into the carriage to get to the Hogwarts Express. No threstals yet beacause even though he had seen the death, it was still too soon for it to sink in. However, over the summer, he had time to think about it, reflect on it, and to accept the fact that Cedric in fact, was dead and Voldermort was on the loose again. That's why he was able to see the threstals when he came back to hogwarts, and not the previous June.

Don't know if anyone else has mentioned this,but I think that not only do you have to see the death, but it also has to sink in before you can see the Threstals.

As a baby, Harry only remembered bits and pieces of his mother's death. He remembers the laugh, and a bright light, but not his mom actually dying and falling to the ground. Hence, no threstals. In the Stone, Harry was hanging on to Quirrel when he heard someone, maybe in his head yelling "Harry, Harry!" before he passed out, so he didn't see Quirrel's death either. In fact, when he woke up in the hospital wing, the first thing that he told Dumbledore was "Quirrel's trying to take the Stone!" Dumbledore had to actually tell him that Quirrel was dead, so he didn't see the actual death. So therefore, still no threstals.

In GoF, however, he saw Cedric killed before his very eyes; he was in shock, especially after Moody turned out to be..well...not Moody. Afterwards, I think his mind shut down for a bit out of pure self-preservation. He didn't want to think about cedric's death, he wanted to forget it in a sense, he wanted to think about other things. The death did not have time to sink in yet, and I think he was still in a state of shock when he got into the carriage to get to the Hogwarts Express. No threstals yet beacause even though he had seen the death, it was still too soon for it to sink in. However, over the summer, he had time to think about it, reflect on it, and to accept the fact that Cedric in fact, was dead and Voldermort was on the loose again. That's why he was able to see the threstals when he came back to hogwarts, and not the previous June.This is one of the best explanations of the threstals issue that I have seen and I agree with it totally. :tu:

That's a very good explanation, but I think JK has admitted that she didn't think a chapter's worth of explanation on threstals was necessary or wanted at the end of GoF so she deferred it. It could be that Harry wasn't even paying attention to what he was looking at, thinking about Cedric's death, the future, Hermione's kiss, it could have been anything. But it seems to be true that the death didn't fully sink in until after he hit the Dursleys' door.

That's a very good explanation, but I think JK has admitted that she didn't think a chapter's worth of explanation on threstals was necessary or wanted at the end of GoF so she deferred it. It could be that Harry wasn't even paying attention to what he was looking at, thinking about Cedric's death, the future, Hermione's kiss, it could have been anything. But it seems to be true that the death didn't fully sink in until after he hit the Dursleys' door.Yeah, I think you're right. He was working on autopilot before the semester ended. He hadn't had time to process everything.

Hello everyone, and sorry to jump in two feet first. If you were all talking about something else, just tell me to shut up and pack off back to the AASS thread :)

Anyway, I was sitting on the bus today, and was thinking (as you do) about Thestrals. Primarily, about the darkness that is associated with them. When Harry saw one leap above the trees of the Forest, he shivered (I think) and the image that came to mind was quite foreboding. But when the pupils actually met them they were quite sweet.

So, thinking about this darkness, I came to the conclusion that death and morbidness hangs around them quite thickly. As only those who have seen death can actually visualise them, there must be something about them that lends itself to death.

I then remembered that Thestrals can go anywhere - say the place and they take you. Coupled with the death fact, I came to a most probably bizarre conclusion that perhaps Thestrals were originally bred to take those who have died onto "the other place". They would only be able to be seen by those who had died, therefore, those closely associated with death. They would be able to cross physical and mystical barriers to carry them off to the world of the dead, if such a one exists. Maybe over the years something happened to make those who had seen death see them too, or maybe they were able to all along.

Sorry if someone else came up with this before me, I'm rather slow :) However, what does everyone think?

That sounds good! The Slytherin boy actually looked at them with some distaste. Maybe someone who watched their loved on die saw a threstal show up and swoop the body (Wizards don't seem to have graveyards or funeral ceremonies) of the loved one away. If you didn't know what it was doing, you might come to the conclusion that the threstal was the reason for the death, instead of simply doing its job.

Yes they do. That's where the legend of the Grim comes from. They have cemetaries and funeral services and the whole bit. Also remember that Harry thought they looked freakish and disturbing until he needed their help.

Nope. Trelawney said that the Grim was the "evil spectral hound that haunted churchyards", not graveyards. Now in our myth of the Grim, it is grave yards; I wonder why JK switched it?

Nope. Trelawney said that the Grim was the "evil spectral hound that haunted churchyards", not graveyards. Now in our myth of the Grim, it is grave yards; I wonder why JK switched it?

The churchyards of older English parish churches generally contain graveyards - I think they're more or less synonymous when talking about an old legend.

Does it have to be Cedric as the trigger for Harry seeing the thestrals?

JKR said that the death had to sink in, leading people to think that Cedric's didn't yet. But maybe it could have been Lily's she was talking about...I mean, Harry's eyes were closed when the curse hit Cedric...

It seems unlikely that Lily's death wouldn't have "sunken in," but Harry did just see the spell memory-thingys of his parents. It wouldn't really help explain why he didn't see the thestrals when he returned to Hogwarts (but it could be explained by the meaning of the spell-memory-Lily and James not sinking in yet, either) but it would explain why he could see the thestrals even not seeing the curse hit Cedric...and didn't JKR give the "needs to sink in" answer to a question about why Harry couldn't see the thestrals from the beginning?

I didn't get the impression that you have to watch someone die, only that you have to see them dead, and of course have that sink in. Perhaps even an open casket funeral or a job picking up corpses may also allow people to see them?

I never though about the "Shades of James and Lily" allowing HArry to understand and sink in their deaths, that may be a possibility.

I think the Therstrals just give people the creeps because of the way the look, (Bony, black, flying horses with no meat on their bones[the Foreign cover looked like a skeleton with fur over it]) not that there's a foreboding feeling about them as with the Dementors who do have a physical effect on you (other than the superstition, if you recognized one when you saw it).

Maybe Harry can see thestrals because he saw Voldemort die. It seemed like a rebirth of Voldemort in GoF. He came out as a baby, a new born child so he must have had to die first to be reborn. It was a Voldemort renaissance.

It depends on how you look at it. I got the picture that Voldemort had to in some way die but not fully die, only die to be reborn and maybe that is who Harry saw die but relive.

Does it have to be Cedric as the trigger for Harry seeing the thestrals?

JKR said that the death had to sink in, leading people to think that Cedric's didn't yet. But maybe it could have been Lily's she was talking about...I mean, Harry's eyes were closed when the curse hit Cedric...

It seems unlikely that Lily's death wouldn't have "sunken in," but Harry did just see the spell memory-thingys of his parents. It wouldn't really help explain why he didn't see the thestrals when he returned to Hogwarts (but it could be explained by the meaning of the spell-memory-Lily and James not sinking in yet, either) but it would explain why he could see the thestrals even not seeing the curse hit Cedric...and didn't JKR give the "needs to sink in" answer to a question about why Harry couldn't see the thestrals from the beginning?

This is an excellent point. Harry has in a way seen Lily a few times - WHen he was born, he saw her in the Mirror of Erised, he heard her scream in PoA, but all of those were like a reflection from when she was alive, it probably felt to Harry that she was alive at those moments.
Whilst in GoF, he saw her as a ghost-like character, and she was helping him after death. At this point he was closest to her than before, as she was talking to him. But Harry saw all the people who he knew had died coming out of the wand, so he knew fully that Lily and James had died. So perhaps he was able to accept them as being dead, after seeing them in the Prior Incantatem spell.

I then remembered that Thestrals can go anywhere - say the place and they take you. Coupled with the death fact, I came to a most probably bizarre conclusion that perhaps Thestrals were originally bred to take those who have died onto "the other place". They would only be able to be seen by those who had died, therefore, those closely associated with death. They would be able to cross physical and mystical barriers to carry them off to the world of the dead, if such a one exists. Maybe over the years something happened to make those who had seen death see them too, or maybe they were able to all along.
I like the way your mind works...
As far as I know, this has never been discussed before, but I am very interested in your theory. I cant quite decide whether to believe it or not - the evidence does match up, and this would also coincide with the idea that Harry will find out a lot more about death in the future.
Im going to go off and attempt to find some religion or myth about death related to horses or carriages - Im sure Ive heard it somewhere. I remember it was once on some drama on TV a while ago...

I was wondering about why harry hadn't seen them before. He had seen his parents die. He had seen death, but he couldn't see the thestrals. He remembered his parents death too. Well, he at least remembered the light and Voldemort laughing. Maybe he didn't remember their exact death. But now that he had seen Cedric die, he could see them. So I guess you have to remember the person dying to see them.





I don't think the death of his parents sunk in though...

1. Why aren't they mentioned in Magical Beasts? Maybe they are and I've just forgotten, but I don't think they were. The book mentioned "winged horses," but the thestrals are quite a bit more than that, aren't they? They're sort of part-dragon, and very skeletal.

2. Why couldn't Harry see the thestrals before? He's seen death--he watched his parents die. Do you have to REMEMBER the death you witnessed in order to see thestrals?

3. What about ghosts? If they never witnessed a death in their life until their own, can they see the thestrals?

5. Do you have to actually be present when they die? If you were a wizard fond of Muggle TV and saw a public execution, would you suddenly start seeing thestrals?

6. Where did number 4 go? :o


I think they are winged horses as I got the impression that they where the opposite to pegasuses.
I think it was because you have to believe that the person is dead before you can see thestrals.
Well I think most ghost will see thestrals unless they are Peeves the poltigiest, who can not accept that he is dead.
I do not think you have to be present at the death but more, just know the person really well, like a relative or something along those lines.

Harry did not see them before because he more than likey did not see his parents die!!

Harry was likely too little to understand what happened. There fore, it didn't seem like he saw a death, so he couldn't see the thestrals.

Harry was likely too little to understand what happened. There fore, it didn't seem like he saw a death, so he couldn't see the thestrals.That's right. It was 11 years later that Harry realized what had happened the night his parents died.

http://www.paralumun.com/coach.htm:
The Death Coach is a superstition that dates back to medieval times.
It was believed in England and Wales that death travelled in a horse drawn coach.
The horse and coach were a pitch black colour.
The driver of the coach had no head. The death coach passes at midnight and makes no sound

http://www.themystica.com/mystica/articles/d/death_coach.html
This was a medieval superstition common in various parts of England and Whales that death came in a horse-drawn coach collecting the souls of the dying. Both the horse and coach were black, and sometimes the driver is depicted without a head. A.G.H.

http://www.pantheon.org/articles/d/death_coach.html
In Irish foklore when the Banshee wails and someone dies, a headless man comes down from the skies riding a coach with two black horses and picks up the spirit of the deceased.

http://www.irelandseye.com/aarticles/culture/talk/banshees/coach2.shtm: A story

http://www.clarelibrary.ie/eolas/coclare/history/death.htm
The 'death coach', or cóiste bodhar as it was more generally called, was sign of approaching death. It is sometimes described as a coach drawn by a team of horses without any driver on board; but some accounts refer to a 'headless' coachman in charge. This ghostly vehicle was usually a night-time phenomenon typically observed rumbling at speed towards the residence of the person who was about to die. There was a well-known tradition of the cóiste bodhar connected with the Macnamara family of Ennistymon House. This is recalled by Westropp in The Folklore of Clare:
"On the night of December 11th, 1876, a servant of the Macnamaras was doing his rounds at Ennistymon, a beautiful spot in a wooded glen, with a broad stream falling in a series of cascades. In the dark he heard the rumbling of wheels on the back avenue, and, knowing from the hour and place that no "mortal vehicle" could be coming, concluded that it was the death coach and ran on to open gates before it. He had just time to open the third gate and throw himself on his face beside it, on the bank, before he heard a coach go clanking past . . . On the following day Admiral Burton Macnamara died in London."

http://members.tripod.com/masqued_hex/fics/dullahan1.html
Author's Notes: The Dullahan is a creature of Celtic mythology and it represents the physical manifestation of Death. The Dullahan's job is to take the souls of the just-departed from Earth to the Afterlife. It does this either by horseback, or, as is the case in this story, by using a "coach-a-bower" ("coiste bodhar" in Celtic.) This is a large black coach drawn by horses which appears to come from the sky at or near the moment of death. When it arrives at the place of death, the Dullahan, who acts as coachman, descends and calls the deceased person's name. When that happens, the dearly departed steps into the coach and is carried away to the next world.

http://www.jeremyrizza.com/twofist.guide.html
DAPPER DAN is one of a legion of Irish ghosts known as DUBHLACHANS (pronounced, and sometimes spelled, "Dullahans"). The word "Dubhlachan" referred originally to any especially sullen person. Later the name was applied to headless Irish phantoms. Dubhlachans are famed for driving the Coach a bower, a ghostly carriage which passes by the homes of people who are doomed to shortly die. The above illustration of Dubhlachans from T. Crofton Croker's Fairy Legends was an inspiration to me. I decided to depict our boy Danny as a ghost who has a head, but not always the body to go with it.


I posted the addresses of where I found the information, as there are some other things scattered around the sites that may have other useful information.

There are quite a few similarites between these horses mentioned and Thestrals:

- attracted by death
- black
- They pull the Hogwarts coaches

A lot of these sources contradict each other though.

That is some very good research, Hpmons. :tu:

Harry did see them only he did not mention them to anyone until book five when they were missing. He saw them every year. He thought everyone else saw them every year so he did not mention them. He only mentioned them when he thought that they were missing.

You know this got me thinking....if you were on the verge of death--would one see thestrals? probably not....but what about if you can see thestrals and then had died, but not really died could one keep the thestrals at bay?
The reasons for my insane thinking is that in the thread about "sleeping draughts" and potions that keep you in a death stage...

I am also recalling things from Edgar Allen Poe's quotes: "Sleep, like little tiny deaths"...and sleep has always been through out mythology, myths, classic literature to be in a state of "death" such as stories also shown in Fairy tales like "sleeping beauty" who can sleep (and according to which story who tells it) for centuries, maintaining everything in it's current stage.
So I'm wondering how if thestrals can tell the difference of a real death and one that is nearly or in the verge of death? Are thestrals do you think equated to Vultures? Do they wait out until you are dead?
I'm remembering the passages of OotP where the thestrals are licking the blood off of Hermione and Harry since they are attracted strongly to death.

So I'm wondering how if thestrals can tell the difference of a real death and one that is nearly or in the verge of death? Are thestrals do you think equated to Vultures? Do they wait out until you are dead?
I'm remembering the passages of OotP where the thestrals are licking the blood off of Hermione and Harry since they are attracted strongly to death.
Good point! :tu:

The fact that thestrals are lured by blood is very interesting. It would make it plausible that the thestrals also come when somebody is dying with a lot of blood and therefore don't really know if somebody is half-dead or dead.

From www.jkrowling.com/textonly/faq_view.cfm?id=21
Why could Harry see the Thestrals 'Order of the Phoenix'? Shouldn't he have been able to see them much earlier, because he saw his parents/Quirrell/Cedric die?
I’ve been asked this a lot. Harry didn’t see his parents die. He was in his cot at the time (he was just over a year old) and, as I say in ‘Philosopher’s Stone’, all he saw was a flash of green light. He didn’t see Quirrell’s death, either. Harry had passed out before Quirrell died and was only told about it by Dumbledore in the last chapter.

He did, however, witness the murder of Cedric, and it is this that makes him able to see the Thestrals at last. Why couldn’t he see the Thestrals on his trip back to the train station? Well, I didn’t want to start a new mystery, which would not be resolved for a long time, at the very end of the fourth book. I decided, therefore, that until Harry is over the first shock, and really feels what death means (ie, when he fully appreciates that Cedric is gone forever and that he can never come back, which takes time, whatever age you are) he would not be able to see the Thestrals. After two months away from school during which he has dwelled endlessly on his memories of the murder and had nightmares about it, the Thestrals have taken shape and form and he can see them quite clearly.

Interesting, isn't it? :eyebrows:

I know what you're thinking stupid question Harry saw Cedric die that's why he can see the Thestals but I was just reading GoF again and I found that Harry didn't actually see Cedric dies

(GoF P553- English version)

Harry's scar exploded with pain... his wand slipped from his fingers as he put his hands over his face; his knees buckled; he was on the ground and he could see nothing at all, his head was about to split open... a blast of green light blazed through Harry's eyelids... terrified of what he was about to see, he opened his stinging eyes

So when Cedric was murdered Harry didn't see it because his eyes were closed and he had his hands over his face. Why then can he see the Thestals?

Could be he was close to Cedric at the time he died?

He may not have "seen" Cedirc die with his eyes....but he was close - physically - to him when he died.

He saw the green light which is the light of the killing spell. The same if for what happened to Lily, HP saw the green killing him. When he saw the light and the body he saw the whole killing process. He didn't see the light hit Cedric, but he saw Cedric dead and the light...

JKR said you see thestrals if you have seen death. Not sure she meant 'see someone die.' It might be more like 'see someone dead' and realize the significance of mortality. We know the death had to "sink in" before Harry could see the thestrals--he had to fully understand its import and impact.

I get you're point but he didn't actually see Cedric die did he he saw him dead and saw the thing which killed him... don't you actually have to see the death happening?

Do you think JKR has been next to someone who died in her presence? She says most adults would be able to see thestrals and yet how many of us have had physical presence at a death? From her biography portion on the website I don't get the impression that she was nearby when her mother died, but I'm not sure about the grandmother whose name she now uses for a middle initial.

Found the quote regarding Thestrals (bolding by me):
Apart from Harry, Snape is my favourite character because he is so complex and I just love him. Can he see the Thestrals, and if so, why? Also, is he a pure blood wizard?
Snape’s ancestry is hinted at. He was a Death Eater, so clearly he is no Muggle born, because Muggle borns are not allowed to be Death Eaters, except in rare circumstances. You have some information about his ancestry there. He can see Thestrals, but in my imagination most of the older people at Hogwarts would be able to see them because, obviously, as you go through life you do lose people and understand what death is. But you must not forget that Snape was a Death Eater. He will have seen things that… Why do you love him? Why do people love Snape? I do not understand this. Again, it’s bad boy syndrome, isn’t it? It’s very depressing. [Laughter]. One of my best friends watched the film and she said, “You know who’s really attractive?” I said, “Who?” She said, “Lucius Malfoy!”


She doesn't say you have to see someone die; one just has to understand what death is after losing someone (a loved one, perhaps, but she did'nt say that here).

The train goes about 90 Km/ph ...Takes about 8-10 Hrs to reach Hogwarts...
[ they start at 11 am reaching after sundown. What is the usual sundown time in Britain on 1st Sept ??]

In book 5, all harry and gang reaches london in about 2-3 hrs may be??

what would be the speed of Threstles??

BTW, has this been discussed??

MR HP

Don't think the actual speed of the thestrals has been discussed, but i have a good answear for you:
They reach london much earlier because when flying, there are no twists and turns, they can just fly straight ahead.. Your post didn't show your age so i don't know if you've ever flew before, but when i lived in Bergen (another big city in Norway) i flew home to my parents, the flight took about 40 minutes (with landing) and when i drove by car or bus, the same trip took 7-9 hours...
Flying are always much quicker :)
I imagine that the Thestrals fly fast, but can't explain how fast :)

This thread may be of help to you: Questions About Thestrals (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=11380&highlight=thestrals)

I really don't know how to put a finger on the time myself, since we don't know how long it took the thestrals to fly to the Department of Mysteries.

Black winged horses were listed as having special powers.

Plus, JKR did not want to give away information that would make the process of reading book 5 the ability to guess what the creatures Harry saw were. That revelation is saved for Hagrid's class.

1. Why aren't they mentioned in Magical Beasts? Maybe they are and I've just forgotten, but I don't think they were. The book mentioned "winged horses," but the thestrals are quite a bit more than that, aren't they? They're sort of part-dragon, and very skeletal. They are in there. I looked it up the other day. it's towards the back...

2. Why couldn't Harry see the thestrals before? He's seen death--he watched his parents die. Do you have to REMEMBER the death you witnessed in order to see thestrals? We aren't sure that he SAW his parents die, he only saw the rushing green energy. Also, maybe being a baby, Harry didn't understand what he was seeing. it is also possible that he just doesn't remember his parents' death.

3. What about ghosts? If they never witnessed a death in their life until their own, can they see the thestrals? It's possible that ghosts can see Thestrals, but it's never really come up in conversation. Also, I'm not sure Nearly Headless Nick actually SAW himself die. Not unless he's got eyes in the back of his head...

5. Do you have to actually be present when they die? If you were a wizard fond of Muggle TV and saw a public execution, would you suddenly start seeing thestrals? Perhaps. A good question, if a little morbind... They show REAL executions on TV? What sicko puts it on? What sickos watch it? And what would it be rated?

6. Where did number 4 go? :o The same place as that sock that you lost in the washing last week. Check behind the couch.

Everyone's saying that you must actually have to see the death for you to be able to see the thestrals, and Harry was in the crib when his mother was killed. If you're gonna go with that, then he didn't 'see' Cedric die either, his eyes were closed and he heard Cedric fall to the ground, when he opened them again he saw that it was Cedric who had been killed.

I think it's just because Baby Harry wouldn't have really understood he was seeing his mum die.

of the PhoenixHarry sWhy could ee the Thestrals 'Order '? Shouldn't he haveable to see them much earlier, because he saw his parents/Quirrell/Cedric die?
I’ve been asked this a lot. Harry didn’t see his parents die been . He was in his cot at the time (he was just over a year old) and, as I say in ‘Philosopher’s Stone’, all he saw was a flash of green light. He didn’t see Quirrell’s death, either. Harry had passed out before Quirrell died and was only told about it by Dumbledore in the last chapter.

He did, however, witness the murder of Cedric, and it is this that makes him able to see the Thestrals at last. Why couldn’t he see the Thestrals on his trip back to the train station? Well, I didn’t want to start a new mystery, which would not be resolved for a long time, at the very end of the fourth book. I decided, therefore, that until Harry is over the first shock, and really feels what death means (ie, when he fully appreciates that Cedric is gone forever and that he can never come back, which takes time, whatever age you are) he would not be able to see the Thestrals. After two months away from school during which he has dwelled endlessly on his memories of the murder and had nightmares about it, the Thestrals have taken shape and form and he can see them quite clearly. ]

This makes me wonder- if you need to fully appreciate that someone is really dead to be able to see the thestrals, and really feel what death means, can LV see thestrals? Its just a thought that he cant. He has killed so many people- has he had time to understand what death really means?

Maybe not so much what each death means as what death as a whole means. It's quite a scary thought that Voldy doesn't know what death means... that he doesn't understand what he is doing when he murders all those people. That is if your theory is correct. If it is I think it could be Voldy's downfall because if he doesn't understand death he will think himself invicible and may take unnessercery risks

Maybe not so much what each death means as what death as a whole means. It's quite a scary thought that Voldy doesn't know what death means... that he doesn't understand what he is doing when he murders all those people. That is if your theory is correct. If it is I think it could be Voldy's downfall because if he doesn't understand death he will think himself invicible and may take unnessercery risks

Yes I think it will most definitely lead to his downfall. If LV understood death he probably wouldnt be so scared of it. And he wouldnt have murdered so many people.

And this is what made me wonder that he probably couldnt see thestrals- after all I dont see how a person can understand death and appreciate it but still go on killing so many others!

Unless they believe in a great afterlife in paradise... then they might think they're doing the person a favour... *shudder*

maybe cause not everyone can see them

Why would you think that Voldemort doesn't fully appreciate death? Seems to me he appreciates it a little too much. He knows that killing is wrong, he just doesn't care. He fears death, yes, but he also understands death. Take Nearly Headless Nick, he was afraid of death, so instead of dying and taking the road to the afterlife, he stayed behind in an imitation of life. Death is what Voldemort fears, probably because he knows (speculation here) that he won't have an afterlife--that's why he wants to be immortal. His fear of death doesn't prevent him from seeing Thestrals. The Avada Kedavra (Abra Cadabra--let the thing be destroyed) is his favorite curse---or so it appears to me.
In OoP, "Never used an Unforgivable Curse before, have you boy?"
"You need to mean them, Potter! You need to really want to cause pain---to enjoy it..."
"I was and am the Dark Lord's most loyal servant, I learned the Dark Arts from him..."
He most definitely can see thestrals. I have no doubt of that.

1. They are. Read the section on Winged Horses more carefully. :)

2. Jo said that you have to realize the death, it has to take its full affect. The fact that Cedric was dead was still sinking in at that point.

3. Hmm....good question...

5. From what I can tell, you have to be present. Otherwise, wouldn't they have been able to see the thestrals briefly when Buckbeak was executed?

6. O_O; Your guess is as good as mine...

Why would you think that Voldemort doesn't fully appreciate death? Seems to me he appreciates it a little too much. He knows that killing is wrong, he just doesn't care. He fears death, yes, but he also understands death. Take Nearly Headless Nick, he was afraid of death, so instead of dying and taking the road to the afterlife, he stayed behind in an imitation of life. Death is what Voldemort fears, probably because he knows (speculation here) that he won't have an afterlife--that's why he wants to be immortal. His fear of death doesn't prevent him from seeing Thestrals. The Avada Kedavra (Abra Cadabra--let the thing be destroyed) is his favorite curse---or so it appears to me.
In OoP, "Never used an Unforgivable Curse before, have you boy?"
"You need to mean them, Potter! You need to really want to cause pain---to enjoy it..."
"I was and am the Dark Lord's most loyal servant, I learned the Dark Arts from him..."
He most definitely can see thestrals. I have no doubt of that.

Well, I dont think anyone's fear of death would prevent them from seeing the thestrals. Most people are afraid of death. But they do realise what happens when someone dies- they have the ability to appreciate it.
JK said that the reason Harry couldnt see the thestrals at the end of GoF was because he hadnt understood death- he hadnt appreciated the fact that Cedric was gone and would never come back. Once he realised this, once he had time to think of what had happened, once he had had nightmares about it- that is over the holidays- that is when he would be able to see the thestrals.
LV on the otherhand is a very different person- I dont think he would be feeling the same way about people whose death he had witnessed. Hagrid said in PS/SS that LV enjoyed killing- and I dont think a person who enjoys killing would have nightmares about it.
Jk said that LV would not have been what he is today had he loved anyone or cared for anyone- he doesnt even care for his supporters! Would he even be able to appreciate their death? I dont think so- nope, in my opinion, he cant see thestrals. Of course, I may be wrong, but its upto JK to prove that.

Well I have a question, so since Sirus fell in the veil does that classified as dying, so that means that everybody that witness him dying or falling can now see the Thersals, but that wouldn't matter anyway since the two that witness was Harry and Neville and they were able to see them anyway. Just a quick question, nothing of importants

Well I have a question, so since Sirus fell in the veil does that classified as dying, so that means that everybody that witness him dying or falling can now see the Thersals, but that wouldn't matter anyway since the two that witness was Harry and Neville and they were able to see them anyway. Just a quick question, nothing of importants

:welcome: ! Im not very sure of this but since sirius is dead, I think whoever witnessed it can see thestrals now- but doesnt really make a difference like you said.
I think you have to see someone die- not necessarily someone being killed- to be able to see thestrals.

Harry did see them only he did not mention them to anyone until book five when they were missing. He saw them every year. He thought everyone else saw them every year so he did not mention them. He only mentioned them when he thought that they were missing.

Harry couldn't see them from the second year, he even said through COS, POA and GoF that the carriages were pulled by invisible horses. He couldn't remember his parents death, and he could only see them in OotP because he saw Cedric die in GoF.

Well I have a question, so since Sirus fell in the veil does that classified as dying, so that means that everybody that witness him dying or falling can now see the Thersals, but that wouldn't matter anyway since the two that witness was Harry and Neville and they were able to see them anyway. Just a quick question, nothing of importantsThere was another witness. That was Lupin. We don't know who among the adults can or can't see the Thesterals. Hagrid obviously can.

Lupin's propably seen people die... he is in the order and a warewolf after all

answering nº2: i think that you have to know what death means, and feel death or something like that to see the thestrals. However, JKR said that Harry actually didn't see his parents die. he was in the cradle and he didn't see anything.

OK, I'm not good at trying to describe what I am thinking, but here goes nothing.

As much as I can gather, from both the movie and the books, Harry Potter was in the same room as Lily Potter when Lord Voldemort killed her. However, Harry cannot see the Thestrals until OotP, after he has seen poor old Cedric die in GoF.

As I do know that JK has refuted that Lily still lives, so my question is simply:
Where was Harry when Lily was murdered? Or Why did he not see her die if he was in the same room?

.Aradia.

I don't have the quote right here, sorry, but JKR said something about not being able to see thestrals until you understand death, when death sinks in. This is also why he didn't notice them on his way back in GoF. It hadn't sunk in yet.
When baby Harry saw his parents get murdered, he didn't really know what happened. Even though he saw it, he didn't understand. Even when his parents' deaths were explained to him, it didn't really affect him all that much because he never knew his parents like most children. When Cedric was murdered right in front of Harry's face, and there was nothing that he could do about it, it affected Harry deeply...but he needed some time for it to fully register and to get over the initial shock to realize what it now meant.

This has been discussed in threads on Thestrals. (Any help, Barbara?)
I think the strongest going theory is that it takes more than seeing a person die to see Thestrals--you also have to understand what the death means. Harry was so young when he saw his mother die (and I think he probably did see it) that he wasn't able to process it and understand it well enough to see the Thestrals as a result of the it.

OK, I'm not good at trying to describe what I am thinking, but here goes nothing.

As much as I can gather, from both the movie and the books, Harry Potter was in the same room as Lily Potter when Lord Voldemort killed her. However, Harry cannot see the Thestrals until OotP, after he has seen poor old Cedric die in GoF.

As I do know that JK has refuted that Lily still lives, so my question is simply:
Where was Harry when Lily was murdered? Or Why did he not see her die if he was in the same room?

.Aradia.

Thanks, Spacecase, that explains alot. But then.... Lily and James were his parents, and even if it didn't sink in right away, it did definately affect him later in life. All through the books being parentless has troubled him. Living with the Dursleys, The Mirror of Erised, Hagrids Photo Book..... Surely at some stage them being dead would have 'sunk' in? I don't know. -shrugs-

Edit: Whoops, its been discussed? Sorry! Feel free to delete the thread, or freeze it. I did check, but I've never been good at that. :huh:

I think that just knowing that his parents died doesn't mean he actually knew he'd seen it happen.According to PS/SS, Harry didn't actually know HOW his parents died that would mean it didn't sink in to the point that he actually saw it.

Sorry if you don't get what I'm trying to say...I tried my best to put my thoughts into writing!!!

Maybe this will help (bolding mine):
In the fifth book, Harry can see the Thestrals. Can you?

Yes, I can, definitely. That is a really good question, because it enables me to clear up a point. The letters that I’ve had about the Thestrals! Everyone has said to me that Harry saw people die before could see the Thestrals. Just to clear this up once and for all, this was not a mistake. I would be the first to say that I have made mistakes in the books, but this was not a mistake. I really thought this one through. Harry did not see his parents die. He was one year old and in a cot at the time. Although you never see that scene, I wrote it and then cut it. He didn’t see it; he was too young to appreciate it. When you find out about the Thestrals, you find that you can see them only when you really understand death in a broader sense, when you really know what it means. Someone said that Harry saw Quirrell die, but that is not true. He was unconscious when Quirrell died, in Philosopher’s Stone. He did not know until he came around that Quirrell had died when Voldemort left his body. Then you have Cedric. With Cedric, fair point. Harry had just seen Cedric die when he got back into the carriages to go back to Hogsmeade station. I thought about that at the end of Goblet, because I have known from the word go what was drawing the carriages. From Chamber of Secrets, in which there are carriages drawn by invisible things, I have known what was there. I decided that it would be an odd thing to do right at the end of a book. Anyone who has suffered a bereavement knows that there is the immediate shock but that it takes a little while to appreciate fully that you will never see that person again. Until that had happened, I did not think that Harry could see the Thestrals. That means that when he goes back, he saw these spooky things. It set the tone for Phoenix, which is a much darker book.

IMHO: How many of us remember anything from before we were 3? (well 5 for me)

I don't think Harry being in the room counts as "seeing death" because I don't think a 1 year old can comprehend and/or remember something like that.

Nicole, thanks for quoting JK Rowling for me, it really clears things up. Alot. Moreover, it reminds me that I think I can recall at the end of book 4 JK writing that Cedrics Death had not sunk in, and that in book five her writing that his death hadn't sunk in till much later. Probably a fact I should've picked up without any help, but hey, this is me. :huh:

So yes, again, thanks Nicole.

You are very welcome, Aradia. I find it quite helpful to enter the 'text only version' of the website when I need to transfer quotes...:)

didn't harry see his parents' deaths?how come only in the 5th year,only he got to see the thestrals?is it because he saw how cedric died?

Freezair stated:
1. Why aren't they mentioned in Magical Beasts? Maybe they are and I've just forgotten, but I don't think they were. The book mentioned "winged horses," but the thestrals are quite a bit more than that, aren't they? They're sort of part-dragon, and very skeletal.

Thestrals are listed in the Bestiary in HP Lexicon. It is in Fantastic Beasts.
From HP Lexicon: http://www.hp-lexicon.org/bestiary/bestiary_t-z.html#Thestral
thestral
A carnivorous black winged horse, skeletal and reptilian, which supposedly brings bad luck. Actually, thestrals are amazingly magical creatures which are invisible to anyone who hasn't seen death first hand. Hogwarts has a herd of about a hundred of them, including one named Tenebrus (FB, OP21).

Meghana

this may be stated earlier so sorry if I'm repeating someone but JKR said that you could only see the thestrals after the death had time to "sink in" that was either on her webpage or (and i think this is more likely) on the books/mistakes section of mugglenet

If we say the train takes 9 hours to get to hogwarts from scotland (average between 8-10):

90 KMpH for 9 Hours = 90 X 9 = 810KM from London to Hogwarts.

This is probably in a streight line because Harry And Ron traveled on a constant compass bearing while flying the car in CofS, and still traveled above the train at all times.


If the thresals took 2.5 hours to travel (half way between 2&3):

810 (distance from hogwarts to london) / 2.5 (time taken for journey) = 324 KM/H (speed of thresals)


These are only estimations, and therefore i think we can say that the speed of the thresals is probably somewhere near 300 km/h

didn't harry see his parents' deaths?how come only in the 5th year,only he got to see the thestrals?is it because he saw how cedric died?

I think it was because he actually didn't see his parents die, he only saw the green light, I think. Also yes, it was because Cedric died.