Latin

I haven't seen a Latin thread yet, so...here goes.
I'm starting to study Latin, but I'm not really sure how to go about learning it. Does anyone have any suggestions, feel like discussing it, its use in the modern world, or any other topic relating to it? Does anyone study it, or have studied it in the past? Is it dying out, because it is not a primary/native language anymore?

I didn't learn it or want to learn it, but it has still it role in the world. You can choose Latin in "Gymnasium" (should be Academic High School) here as foreign language. It's not used daily or for private causes, but as it's still available at the school it must have a purpose. Mostly for people who want to study medicine or such things I guess.

Salve. I learned latin for a few years due to attending a Catholic school. However I was rubbish at it. I can only remember the words which would probably not come in handy at all. I suggest you start off with the basics. Read a starters book for Latin, revise the words then go about looking through an english dictionary and soon you shall see the amount of latin used in english, french, italian etc.

Latin has been pretty important to me. A lot of legal terms are in Latin, and knowing the language made it that much easier for me in law classes. A lot of words also use Latin as roots, so it was very helpful for my vocabulary and for standardized tests. It's been fun to go through the Harry Potter books and look up the root words for the incantations. I find this website helpful: http://archives.nd.edu/latgramm.htm

I don't know Latin, but I'd love to learn! I took Med. Anatomy & Physiology in my Jr. year, and we had a whole section of Medical Terminology. Pretty much everything is derived from Latin or Greek.

Learning the very basic medical terms in Latin helped out my vocabulary a lot! For example: If you know the basic Latin meaning of a word or two, you can pretty much figure out the Medical term it means. (Glosso means tongue, Itis means inflammation(or infection), Oto means ear, Rhino means nose, Laryngo means larynx (throat), Ology means study...so when you see stuff like: Glossitis or Otorhinolaryngology, it is easy to figure out the meanings (inflammation of the tongue and the study of the ear, nose, and throat.)...and if you are in Medical competitions, it's easier to figure out spellings when you know the Latin meanings. ;)

I took Latin for one semester in high school as an elective. I did well on the national Latin exam, I'm not sure how. ;) I pretty much forget it now, but at the time I think it helped improve my Spanish. It's kind of interesting to see the roots of many English (and other languages) come up in Latin.

Well, I'm a doctor, and I never took Latin or Greek, nor felt the lack of it from a professional standpoint. We learned the pertinent words for medicine in the course of our classes in anatomy/microbiology/embryology, etc. (<--look, a Latin abbreviation!) without having to learn how to conjugate verbs or change tenses in a sentence, which would have been unnecessary to know for medicine. Having said that, I would certainly encourage anyone to learn Latin if he/she has an interest in it--it's helpful in language studies (for example, learning Italian/Spanish/French, or other Romance languages), history (a lot of primary documents in history were written in Latin as a universal language of educated people), and it's kind of neat to know just on general principles. Remember, there really isn't any such thing as knowing "too much".

I like Latin as a language, but sadly there was no classes on it when I was in school. Only classes for Spanish, French and that kind of thing.

I'd love to learn more about it though, it's an interesting language :).

It's very difficult to learn. Many lawyers, GPs don't take it anymore. I can completely understand and sympathise why. It's horrible yet so terribly interesting. I have a memory problem so I was the worse in the class which probably didn't help. Oh well, it's very interesting to learn and it's nice to pick up dieing languages even if there is no chance or reviving them.

I really want to learn Gaelic.

I love Latin; I'm currently in Latin IV in high school. I have learned a lot about English by taking Latin, and I'm very glad I decided to take it.

And yeah, it is a dead language because no one learns it as their first language anymore.

I love Latin; I'm currently in Latin IV in high school. I have learned a lot about English by taking Latin, and I'm very glad I decided to take it.

And yeah, it is a dead language because no one learns it as their first language anymore. I took two years of it in high school. Latin helped me to learn a lot about English, too. It also helps with vocabulary. I didn't really like Latin, but I am really glad I had taken it.

latin is pretty easy. all you have to do is be able to memorize conjugations and declensions. once you have taken around three years you know a lot. the hard part is knowing when to apply the different rules of vocab and remembering the vocab in a test and stuff.

it is also really cool when you recognize spells and harry potter vocab during latin class and homework. it is always a good way to brighten up the class to shout out 'hey, this means ___ in harry potter!'. a lot of the words in general have similar words in english, so if you can't figure out a word, think if it sounds like something in english.

I took Latin in school and its still needed for courses at most universities in German (from languages, which are often based on Latin over History to Sports).

It helped me a lot to learn other languages, even some not based on Latin, because I understood major grammar structures better. For doing researches in history I need it, but I also believe that, especially at universities, its rather tradition than helpful to keep it as instance to get access to courses. Excluded the courses like French, history etc. where you really do need it.


I didn't like it in school and never really got it for a long time, but I'm glad I took it.

I studied Latin just for one year, but I liked it a lot. Use of it? Well, if you want to study Spanish, French, Italian, or any other language coming from Latin, it will be very useful.

Well, another use of it is understanding The Name of the Rose... apart of lots of inscriptions on castles and churches, if you like those thinks (I personally love it).

I took about 4 years of Latin, in 6th grade you got to pick between either Latin or French. The difference between Latin and any other language (except maybe ancient Greek), is that you don't actually learn how to speak it, as in have a regular conversation in it, you just learn a lot about grammar and vocabularies by translating historic texts. At least that's how it was in our school.
Marcus currit.
Cornelia currit.
Cornelia vicet.
Marcus servus est.
Cornelia domina est.
That's the first sentences we learned (might have forgotten the spelling by now), and about as much as I can remember. But I suppose it does come back as in making learning other languages easier, and understanding the meaning of lots and lots of words that have Latin roots.

Please keep in mind that the language threads are not made to exchange knowledge in swears, sexual explicit or similar terms. Our Forum Rules (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=22999) still apply. Thanks!

Please keep in mind that the language threads are not made to exchange knowledge in swears, sexual explicit or similar terms. Our Forum Rules (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=22999) still apply. Thanks!

I sincerely hope that my post didn't make you repost the rules, as nothing of what I wrote was sweraing or sexually explicit per se, even though I am now aware that some of those words might have an adult meaning in modern language... sorry.:err:

No, you're fine, dobbylikesme. My fault, sorry. I should have mentioned that the posts with non family friendly content have been deleted before. :)



Actually we did the same in school, translating many historic texts from for instance Caesar, Ovid or Catilina. Later we took a look at Latin from the Middleages, but in school this was only a short pleasure.

I studied latin for about five years,including latin literature.I was pretty good at it but unfortunately I forgot many things.Anyway,there are a lot of latin sentences and proverbs that are very well-known.I still remember the sentence that the gladiators used to say to the emperor before fighting, "ave Cesare,morituri te salutant",that is, more or less,"Hi emperor,those who are going to die say goodbye".I find it really interesting

I've never studied it - I haven't had the chance. I'm sure it would be really interesting to learn, but as I'm not very good at French, which is meant to be quite easy in terms of language, I'm not sure I'd be able to cope with Latin. It's interesting to know that it's helped people understand English better - maybe it would be of use to me as I love English and learning more about the English language.

I think Harry Potter has made me more interested because of the spells.

I took Latin in college and I liked it a lot. I stink at trying to speak another language, so Latin was perfect because we weren't required to actually speak it. Also, we had to read the Greek myths, which was cool.

I love latin. I love singing and most masses, requiems and a lot of sacred pieces are written in latin. Unfortunately, I could not find any place in Argentina were I could take classes. I had started an online course, but I only got as far as declensions. I dropped the course when we started with verbs. It was so difficult!!!! (this coming from somebody whose first language is spanish)

well, latin may not be spoken anymore, but is certainly sung.

I had started an online course, but I only got as far as declensions. I dropped the course when we started with verbs. It was so difficult!!!! (this coming from somebody whose first language is spanish)
Funny, I found learning declensions way harder. It took me a long time to learn all the conjugations (active indicative, passive indicative, active subjunction, passive subjunctive, etc.) but I felt really accomplished once I finally did. Plus whenever I have trouble going to sleep, I run through the conjugations in my head and I usually fall asleep going through the passive indicative. :)

I started working on learning Latin via books like Wheelock earlier this year.. It started off pretty good, since the basic rules are simple, but I got a little stuck though once I hit noun declensions - that's tough.
As well as being an HP fan, I'm also a part time magician who dabbles in the sub-genre known as "Bizarre Magic", so knowing some latin would be a real boon to me when it comes to conjuring up incantations and such. Real life kicked in though, and I had to put it on a backburner.

I found my signature on a website somewhere, in fact.. I couldn't have done that myself.. yet. I'm going to pick it up again.

I don't know if this is the same in other countries, but in Germany when you learn Latin, and you study a certain number of years, you achieve the level "small Latinum", and then you study a few more years, you achieve the "big Latinum". And you need those levels to go on with certain studies. Don't really know which, since I never went to College or Uni. And I think I only got the small L.

I love Latin!!! I've been taking it for three years, and it usually comes pretty easily to me. But it's really fun, so anyone considering taking it definitely should :)

Quite a few English words are derived from Latin, so though it is a 'dead' language, we still use it somehow or other, in English, of course. I have not learnt any Latin, except for the words in psalms or hymns in Mass, as I am Roman Catholic. I always love learning new languages, so I'm pretty pleased they have some Latin words and all.

Latin was used by the Ancient Romans, and is still currently used in certain parts of Rome like the Vatican City. In all of the world, Vatican is the only one with ATM machines in Latin! How cool is that?

I like latin very much, though I haven't been studying it for long... it is my fifth language I think but it explains the other four so I do understand better what word means in english and french especially. Though, I am grateful that I do speak language where the grammar is very similar because everything with accusativus, nominativus, genetivus... in most languages you only have nominativus and genetivus but in my mother tounge we do have all the six forms of nouns as in latin though we only use four of them and that has been a great help!

Latin is very important to understand other indo-european languages and I like it a lot :)

When I was still working as a music director, at the last church where I worked I got into an argument with the interim pastor about the 'c' sound in Latin. I learned it as a hard sound. He had learned it as a soft sound. I didin't know there were two schools of thought about this. I just thought that what I heard people saying was the English version of the Latin - like Julius Caesar was Jewleeus Seezer. But in Latin it would be EEyouleeus Kyzar. (no J in Latin) Cicero was Sisseroh - in Latin it was Kickeroh.

Anyone have any comments about this?

If I recall it correct the classical sound would be, to take your example, 'K'ickero. In Germany for instance people learned this classical sounds, but after 1933 a local sound of it was taught in schools. Today it still depends on regional teaching, but mostly people came back to the international pronunciation, what would be the classical one.

There's some more detailed information on wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latin_spelling_and_pronunciation), also about how English people pronounce it and where the exceptions in classical Latin are.

We had a younger teacher in our last years at school who once read Latin very close to what researchers found the spoken language. This sounded more like Italian than Latin and so was very different to what we were used to hear when someone read a Latin text.

When I was still working as a music director, at the last church where I worked I got into an argument with the interim pastor about the 'c' sound in Latin. I learned it as a hard sound. He had learned it as a soft sound. I didin't know there were two schools of thought about this. I just thought that what I heard people saying was the English version of the Latin - like Julius Caesar was Jewleeus Seezer. But in Latin it would be EEyouleeus Kyzar. (no J in Latin) Cicero was Sisseroh - in Latin it was Kickeroh.

Anyone have any comments about this?
Yep, that is correct.

- In Latin, all the vowels are pronounced like they are in Spanish. 'A' is pronounced 'ahh.'
- 'E' is pronounced like a hard 'a' like 'hate.'
- 'I' is pronounced like a hard 'e' like 'eat.'
- 'O' is pronounced like the letter.
- 'U' is pronounced like 'ooo' like in 'you.'
- A 'c' is pronounced like a 'k.'
- There weren't any 'J's, instead it would be an 'I.' Julius' name would have been spelt 'Iulius.'
- And a 'v' is pronounced like a 'w' (they had no letter 'w' either).

Cicero would sound like 'Kee-ker-o.'
Julius would have been spelt 'Iulius' and pronouced 'You-lee-oos.'
And Caesar would have been pronounced 'Ky-sahr.'

I had the oppurtunity to study latin few years ago and I messed it up. Now I feel bad about it.. but you can't change the past. *sigh*

RE: The pronunciation of Latin.... Yay! I was right! I hope I don't ever get asked to read in church on Christmas eve. I might just say Yoolius Kysahr. and everyone would think I was nuts.

By the way, I just finished Cicero's Tusculan Disputations and enjoyed it very much. My daughters just don't get me getting into some guy who lived 2100 years ago but I tell them he thinks the way I do and I love his arguments. Aren't books just the greatest things? Cicero in my mind just like the latest novelist.

I had the oppurtunity to study latin few years ago and I messed it up. Now I feel bad about it.. but you can't change the past. *sigh*I was never good in Latin during school. I got what we call 'Great Latinum' here, but still I had no clue about the language when I left school. Then I began to study courses I needed the language for and began to study Latin again, just as hobby, due to pure interest. I had never thought I ever would do something like this before. :lol:

I was never good in Latin during school. I got what we call 'Great Latinum' here, but still I had no clue about the language when I left school. Then I began to study courses I needed the language for and began to study Latin again, just as hobby, due to pure interest. I had never thought I ever would do something like this before. :lol:

nerd :p

Here in Italy Latin is really important. You have to study it if you attend some kind of high schools (based on classic study, or scientific too). You see, the Italian (like Spanish and other language) comes from the Latin .. our language is so similar to the Latin: some words are the same, and the pronunciation is pretty the same (excepted for the "dittongo" [i don't know the English for it] like "ae" and others ..). I was forced to study it: it's been a nightmare for me, studying it in the last five years. I've never liked it, even if I was pretty good. Fortunately, I won't have to study it in the future. :tu:



- In Latin, all the vowels are pronounced like they are in Spanish. 'A' is pronounced 'ahh.'
- 'E' is pronounced like a hard 'a' like 'hate.'
- 'I' is pronounced like a hard 'e' like 'eat.'
- 'O' is pronounced like the letter.
- 'U' is pronounced like 'ooo' like in 'you.'
- A 'c' is pronounced like a 'k.'
- There weren't any 'J's, instead it would be an 'I.' Julius' name would have been spelt 'Iulius.'
- And a 'v' is pronounced like a 'w' (they had no letter 'w' either).


The same for Italian language too.

nerd :pAfraid you're right in this. :rotfl:

Right now I am re-reading The History of Rome by Titus Livy.

Question again. Is there no G in Latin? In these old books I always see Gaius as Caius and Gnaeus as Cnaeus.

(excepted for the "dittongo" [i don't know the English for it] like "ae" and others ..) Diphthong?

Right now I am re-reading The History of Rome by Titus Livy.

Question again. Is there no G in Latin? In these old books I always see Gaius as Caius and Gnaeus as Cnaeus.
No, they did have the letter 'g.' It just wasn't a very common letter, they preferred to use 'c' in words we made into 'g' words.

The same for Italian language too.
Yeah, that makes sense, since Italian is one of the languages that comes from Latin.

No, they did have the letter 'g.' It just wasn't a very common letter, they preferred to use 'c' in words we made into 'g' words.


Yeah, that makes sense, since Italian is one of the languages that comes from Latin.

It does makes sense, becuz Romans once spoke Latin before Italian. :D

I have another question. I finished Caesar's Commentaries on the Gallic Wars and was puzzled by the word vineae. He made the comment that some of the Gallic tribes were good at these because they had copper mines. The word occurs many times in descriptions of fortifications. Were these some kind of tunnel?

I have another question. I finished Caesar's Commentaries on the Gallic Wars and was puzzled by the word vineae. He made the comment that some of the Gallic tribes were good at these because they had copper mines. The word occurs many times in descriptions of fortifications. Were these some kind of tunnel?These should be some kind of protection roofs against projectiles (not too sure what the correct historic English word for missiles might be :lol:), if I recall it right.

Thank you. That makes sense, I think. :p

These should be some kind of protection roofs against projectiles (not too sure what the correct historic English word for missiles might be :lol:), if I recall it right.
Yeah, I think that's right. My dictionary says that when the word "vinea -ae" is used in a military sense it means a "penthouse (for besiegers)."

Ave, oh quick question ... my school's motto is Discere Sevire , to learn to serve however our Principal is quite daft in that he does'nt even know hoe to pronounce it ... if i remember my Latin correctly is is pronounced as Diskere Sevire In classical latin and in ecclestial latin it is Disere Sevire right ?

Ave Caesar Morituri Salutant ,

Dulce et Decorum est, Pro patria mori

It's SeRvire, surely? (the English and the Latin are related)

Otherwise your assumption is correct. :)

I found a set of Latin grammars on ebay and some are really excellent. They do not give translations as such but have photographs or pictures so that you quickly learn Latin basics and then you are into using indirect objects and direct objects etc. I am plowing my way through them slowly so as not to forget anything. I wish I had had Latin in school.

Wow... that's amazing :)

So, any particular reason for learning Latin? :)

Latin is the foundation of our modern languages and we use so many Latin phrases in everyday speech. Medicine and law are full of Latin. I am just an ancient Rome junkie and I have read just about all of the writers extant from that society. I have 'edited' and made my own copies of these documents because the way Latin stays pretty much in the present tense even when that is not what is meant bugs me no end. So I change all the tenses to what they should be so I and anyone else in my family who wants to read these letters, biographys, essays, histories, etc. can do so with ease.

I also pronounce Latin with the restored pronunciation.

I'm kind of goofy, I guess.

Nice.... well, you don't have to convince me of the value of Latin....

I am in the business of convincing others..... :D OK, I guess I am more of a Greek Geek - but Latin is a very fine language as well - and probably more relevant at least to English speakers.


The one thing I find amazing about Latin is just how 'economical' it is in terms of the space it needs to say something. Usually English is a short language compared to others (e.g. 100 pages of English will be about 125 in German). But when you see a Latin text and the English translation alongside each other, you see that English is in turn at least 20% 'longer' than Latin.

I think that's amazing. :)

Ave, oh quick question ... my school's motto is Discere Sevire , to learn to serve however our Principal is quite daft in that he does'nt even know hoe to pronounce it ... if i remember my Latin correctly is is pronounced as Diskere Sevire In classical latin and in ecclestial latin it is Disere Sevire right ?

Ave Caesar Morituri Salutant ,

Dulce et Decorum est, Pro patria mori
You've got the discere right (with the c pronounced like a k), but also the v would be pronounced like a w. I don't know about the ecclestial Latin pronunciation though.

I'm going to *attempt* to teach myself Latin over the summer since I have over three months off.

I'll probrably start with simple vocab, and then move on to a bit of grammar. My local library is quite cool though, because they stock these practise books which have phrases and sentences in for you to translate, if anyone is interested I can give the names of the books (going to get and check them out tomorrow when I get into the town centre) so you can buy/rent them to practise.

Also is it just me, (being in England and all) but when you walk around churches there is Latin engraved...does anyone else but me want to know what it means when they walk around? :)

I made a desperate attempt several years ago to teach myself Latin, mainly because I was studying law, but also because I just like the sound. The declensions, etc were too much for me. My study pre-dated the "For Dummies" books, but I bought a couple of books similar to today's "For Dummies", but that didn't help. I gave up on it, but reading the Potter books has made me want to try again. Maybe when I retire (soon) and have more time to devote to it.

Uggghh....I'm dreading taking third year Latin this coming term. It's so complicated (though that may just be the teacher's fault ;)). Latin is incredibly helpful if you want to learn the languages that are derived from it and increase your English vocabulary, but I thought trying to learn it was very difficult.

awww... beckster.... stick with it. It is a really tough learning curve for the first two years, till you have the main vocab, verb forms and so forth under your belt. Once that's done, the fun starts, because you can actually do something with it.

It's sad if teachers make it such a torture, though, because I think even the basic bit of dealing with all the nuts and bolts of the language can be rather fun, because there is (in my experience anyway) no better way of understanding much more about languages in general (at least Indo-European ones) than learning Latin. At least you can indeed see the hard work as a rather useful exercise for all sorts of other languages.

Good luck with it!

I picked up a Latin learning book at the bookstore, and learned a bit of vocabulary and grammar, but my brain froze when I got to all the stuff dealing with declensions. I re-read everything about it several times, and I still don't understand what the purpose of the different declensions is, nor how words are categorized into each. Is it all a matter of memorization, that I'll have to know beforehand if a word is in one declension or another?

I picked up a Latin learning book at the bookstore, and learned a bit of vocabulary and grammar, but my brain froze when I got to all the stuff dealing with declensions. I re-read everything about it several times, and I still don't understand what the purpose of the different declensions is, nor how words are categorized into each. Is it all a matter of memorization, that I'll have to know beforehand if a word is in one declension or another?
The declensions show what the subject of the sentence is and so on. In English, word order dictates what the sentence means. In Latin, word endings dictate what the sentence means. For example...

The dog bites the man.
The man bites the dog.

Those two sentences mean completely different things simply because the word order was switched.

Terram agricolarum puella amat.
Puella agricolarum terram amat.

Even though those two sentences in Latin have a different word order, they mean the exact same thing because of the endings that I underlined.

The endings of Latin words are equal to the order of English words in a sentence, so they are very important. With simpler sentences, you can cheat a little by just putting the words together for them to make sense.

For example, if you translated "Terram agricolarum puella amat" by looking at the word order, you would get "Land of farmers girl loves." That doesn't read in English well, and it's obvious that it should be "The girl loves the land of farmers." However, you'll run into trouble if you don't know your declensions when you run into a harder sentence.

Also, look at this sentence: "Marcum nihil terret." Marcum = Marcus, nihil = nothing, and terret = frightens. It is very tempting to translate this sentence as "Marcus frightens nothing." But that would be wrong, because Marcum is accusative. The correct translation is "Nothing frightens Marcus." The only way anyone could ever get that correctly would be if they understood the declensions.

Here's a chart that I used that helped me understand the declenions (taken out of the book Latin for Dummies :) ) :
Nominative: The subject. (The cook burned the cookies.)
Genitive: Indicates possession. (The survival of the team depends on working together.)
Dative: Indirect object. (The commissioner gave the man a medal for bravery.)
Accusative: Direct object, purpose, or motion toward something. (Who let the dogs out?)
Ablative: Expresses how, when, where, or why. (The general was informed with a message.)

Learning declensions was the biggest pain for me, but once you see the charts so many times, it looks less foreign and it's easy to memorize. Hope that helps.

In english you only have nominativus and genetivus... I think I am really lucky to talk icelandic because the latin declensions are almost the same in Icelandic and Latin and i really wouldn't like to learn them if I wasn't a native Icelandic speaker. Declensions, I think, is very hard to learn and understand if you haven't had them in your language your whole life. Certain words direct the following word in this or that declension and it is something one has to feel I think...

And Spirit, you forgot the vocativus which is only seen in 2. declension, masculin, nom: serv-us, voc: serv-e. But it still exists, and if we want to be extreme we could say it even exists in English:

-Dic verum, serve!

-Tell the truth, slave!

Then slave, if we want to be extreme, then we can say that slave is vocativus in english as well as in latin...

As I've said before, I really wouldn't like to learn latin and all its declensions if I hadn't Icelandic as my mother tongue.

Hey guys! I was just wondering if you could tell me how to say "open, please" or "please open" in Latin? I need it for a fan fic I'm writing.

Thanks in advance!
Katie :)

Latin is the foundation of our modern languages and we use so many Latin phrases in everyday speech. Medicine and law are full of Latin. I am just an ancient Rome junkie and I have read just about all of the writers extant from that society. I have 'edited' and made my own copies of these documents because the way Latin stays pretty much in the present tense even when that is not what is meant bugs me no end. So I change all the tenses to what they should be so I and anyone else in my family who wants to read these letters, biographys, essays, histories, etc. can do so with ease.

I also pronounce Latin with the restored pronunciation.

I'm kind of goofy, I guess.

I agree 100%. (Except if you're goofy, I'm odd) I am currently ready for Latin III and I love it. However, my new school only offers French, Spanish, and Sign Language so I'm stuck with Spanish. Because no one here knows Latin I constantly get the "Latin is a dead language" card thrown at me. (However, until the day that German, French, Spanish... and the rest of the Romance languages end, Latin lives!) Besides, Latin makes English grammer seem simple (who can't handle a simple English participle when you can decline them in Latin!) Also, so many words come from Latin (especially SAT type words). And, many scientific words use Latin endings (ex. Mitochondrium, Mitochondria) some people have trouble with which one is plural and which one is singular, but if you treat it like a neuter word (2nd or 3rd declension) it's simple!

And, some people can't grasp the v = w concept. (No one pronounces Veni Vidi Vinci right!)

Oh, and the other day I randomly felt the need (in the middle of Spanish class) to conjugate do, dare, dedi, datus (because we were learning the spanish equivalent--- "dar"). I got to future perfect when my teacher called on me...:whistle:

Hey guys! I was just wondering if you could tell me how to say "open, please" or "please open" in Latin? I need it for a fan fic I'm writing.

Thanks in advance!
Katie :)
It would depend on what's being opened, and how many people the phrase is being said to.

If someone is telling an object to open ("Come on, door, open, please!"), or someone is telling one person to open something ("Hey you, open this, please"), and the thing that's being opened is something like a drawer or a door, it would be aperti, amabo.
If someone is telling more than one person to open it ("Everyone, open these/this, please"), it would be apertite, amabo.

If someone is telling a book to open, or they're telling one person to open a book, it would be, evolve, amabo.
If someone is telling more than one person to open books, it would be evolvite, amabo.

If someone is telling a letter to open, or they're telling one person to open a letter, it would be resolve, amabo.
If someone is telling more than one person to open letters, it would be resolvite, amabo.

The Romans made everything complicated, lol.

LOL, oh wow, never knew there was so many ways to say it. Well I think it's the first one because it's a password for opening Gryffindor tower. Am I right?

LOL, oh wow, never knew there was so many ways to say it. Well I think it's the first one because it's a password for opening Gryffindor tower. Am I right?
Yes, that's right. It would be aperti, amabo. :)

I had to take latin and it really helped me understanding all of the languages (english, italian, french, german etc)Now I could have dropped it, but here they won't let you study, if you didn't learn it and that's why I didn't drop it. But the grammar is really hard sometimes and so many things sound familiar.

I took four years of Latin and loved it. But I have to admit I really don't know much Latin.

I also studied Latin for three years, but I forgot everything. Well, almost everything because French language took so much from Latin :D. Though it helped me a lot when I started to learn German, for declensions mainly.

Salve! Amo lingua Latina! Cepi lingua Latina quattorem annos. Mei grammaticae est mala, sed didici multus. Discipuli capiendi lingua Latina, quid librum legent? Quot legent "Ecce Romani"?

Since a lot of people here don't really speak the language:

Hi! I love Latin! I've taken Latin for four years. My grammar is bad, but I've learned a lot. The students taking Latin, what book do you read? How many read "Ecce Romani" (Look Romans)?

We never did. The only things we really read was the Aeneid.

How many read "Ecce Romani" (Look Romans)?
Yep, I did. All three. After those, we used "Jenny's Fourth Year Latin" and a translated Charolette's Web.

Yep, I did. All three. After those, we used "Jenny's Fourth Year Latin" and a translated Charolette's Web.
I took four years of Latin too, and we never got to the fourth book of Jenny's Fourth Year Latin :lol:

Yep, I did. All three. After those, we used "Jenny's Fourth Year Latin" and a translated Charolette's Web.



Did you ever get to read anything that was a 'real' ancient text?

My Latin course in school was very traditional - I know people 30 years older than I am who used the same Latin book, which has since been discontinued. After two years we started reading ancient texts, starting (again, very traditionally) with Caesar.

I remember the exact passage - a few sentences into Caesar's Gallic War, when it suddenly dawned on me that I could read something that someone had written down in a different time, a different culture over 2000 years ago, and read it as they wrote it. That fascination has never left me. It's awesome to be able to do this, IMHO.

Klio:
Did you ever get to read anything that was a 'real' ancient text?

My Latin course in school was very traditional - I know people 30 years older than I am who used the same Latin book, which has since been discontinued. After two years we started reading ancient texts, starting (again, very traditionally) with Caesar.

I remember the exact passage - a few sentences into Caesar's Gallic War, when it suddenly dawned on me that I could read something that someone had written down in a different time, a different culture over 2000 years ago, and read it as they wrote it. That fascination has never left me. It's awesome to be able to do this, IMHO.

My class is doing something like that now. We're reading the texts of Cicero, Eutropius, and other Romans in the exact format that they wrote them, it's pretty interesting stuff. Ever since I started taking Latin, I realized that I see it everywhere in everday life (e.g. Nunquam titilandus draco dormiens).

Did you ever get to read anything that was a 'real' ancient text?
Yep. Ecce Romani III and Jenney's Fourth Year Latin were both a collection of ancient texts. Ecce Romani had works by Cicero, Caesar, Pliny, Eutropius, Asconius, etc. Jenney's was all poetry... the Aeneid, Ovid, Catullus, Horace, Martial, etc.

I remember the exact passage - a few sentences into Caesar's Gallic War, when it suddenly dawned on me that I could read something that someone had written down in a different time, a different culture over 2000 years ago, and read it as they wrote it. That fascination has never left me. It's awesome to be able to do this, IMHO.
I agree, definitely. I read Pliny the Younger's account of the eruption of Mt. Vesuvius once, and I thought it was just amazing that I was reading an eyewitness account of a famous event like that which took place in 79 AD.

I do get really frustrated reading the original ones though, it takes me forever to understand them, meh.

I took four years of Latin too, and we never got to the fourth book of Jenny's Fourth Year Latin :lol:
LOL, well, the Jenney's books are harder, I think. They're certainly thicker. We used Ecce Romani for three years, and we finished two of the three. We didn't come anywhere close to finishing the Jenney's Fourth Year Latin though.

Has anyone here participated in Roman activities such as banquets or mock chariot races?

Not such activities but once in class we coocked some roman food. We had first translated the reciepes our teacher had found in a book, that was pretty fun. Another funny thing was translating Astérix from French to Latin and then check if we were correct in the Latin edition.

I agree, definitely. I read Pliny the Younger's account of the eruption of Mt. Vesuvius once, and I thought it was just amazing that I was reading an eyewitness account of a famous event like that which took place in 79 AD.

I do get really frustrated reading the original ones though, it takes me forever to understand them, meh.

I used to do a lot of tutoring in Latin, and one thing I always had to tell people was this:

If you read an ancient text, it might seem difficult. The one thing that's crucial is that above everything, you have to keep in mind that the author WANTED to make sense. So, if you construct everything and come up with something that doesn't quite seem right, try to work out what they might have wanted to say. It's a different time and culture, but they were still people who wanted to get a message across. I found that so many people tackling ancient texts just somehow forgot about that - with all the other things like grammar, syntax and vocab to worry about. But if you don't ever let go of that one crucial aim, you should be OK. :)


After a while you get used to it - although it IS hard to do at the beginning. Of course, I make a living studying the ancients (Romans as well as Greeks), so I am of course a bit biased: I think it's totally worth finding out what they had to say ;)



Has anyone here participated in Roman activities such as banquets or mock chariot races?

LOL - mock chariot races? How does that work?

I have done a lot of Roman cooking over the years - and I do use the original Apicius text, not modernised recipes, as far as possible (although you do have to interpret it carefully to get results). I LOVE Roman food - OK, some of it anyway. ;) I don't eat the famous (but rare) stuff like doormice, obviously.

I have also reconstructed ancient clothing (learning how to cut and drape a toga properly is tricky, actually). I love ancient women's clothes. Very elegant and simple at the same time, although I'd go a bit more lightly on the veils, just as most movies set in those periods would do ;)

At some point I was part of a team which put together an exhibition about ancient games, and we had a lot of fun learning a few of those, and then playing them to show visitors (and playing with visitors) at one or two occasions. That was a lot of fun, too! :)

Klio:
LOL - mock chariot races? How does that work?

I actually don't know, I've only heard about it. My school does do a Roman banquet once a year though, we all dress up in togas and serve food, it's pretty fun!

I've been studying Latin for nearly 4 years and it helps a lot with my other languages.

This is my first year taking Latin, and I absolutely love it; it's my favorite subject I've ever taken. I just think it's so much fun and so interesting, and it comes really easily to me - but Latin I is, of course, not a difficult class, so we'll see if I feel the same way next year. Even though I haven't been taking it very long, I've learned enough to occasionally see an english word and know what it means because of Latin, and it has helped me a ton for grammar in English - my teacher always thinks I must have learned so much grammar when I was younger, and the truth is I've never learned it before, I just know it from Latin. I can't say it has helped me that much in French (which I've been taking for five years), but I do recognize similarities between the languages really often during Latin class. I can't wait to keep taking Latin and learn more of the language. :D

I did 6 years of Latin at school and enjoyed it so much I nearly did it at university. Sadly, I've forgotten a lot of it now, but it's helped me so much, not just with learning foreign languages (although it probably did), but with vocabulary, spelling, grammar and style in English (my native language). For example, I never misspell "desperate" as "desparate", because I remember it comes from "spes" (=hope).

P.S. I had the Cambridge orange and green books when I was learning Latin (Caecilius est pater, Metella est mater etc), and I did Aeneid IV, Ovid's Metamorphoses, and something unbelievably dull by Cicero for 'A' level.

P.S. I had the Cambridge orange and green books when I was learning Latin (Caecilius est pater, Metella est mater etc), and I did Aeneid IV, Ovid's Metamorphoses, and something unbelievably dull by Cicero for 'A' level.
I have the Cambridge book! There are some rather interesting stories in there.

I love this thread! As for cooking Roman food, how could you ever want to eat garum? :p I don't eat any Asian food that uses fish sauce. I think that one condiment was what kept Roman cooking from taking over the world.

As for reading the ancient Romans... I just love the idea that the voice of someone who died over 2000 years ago is heard in my head and through him I see how people thought and how they lived then. The Commentaries on the Gallic Wars was brilliant. Caesar could get his ideas across very succintly. He was really good. I learned so much by reading him.

I also have read Plutarch, Livy, Cicero, and letters by various other Romans. It's all fascinating to me. I wish that the History of Rome didn't have so much missing from it.

I pronounce Latin in the restored manner much to the dismay of those who think 'c' is soft and 'ae' sounds like ee. There were no G's and no J's and yes, I do say, W for V the Veni, Vidi, Vici (weekee). I read aloud to elderly people and there are some who like these mysteries set in ancient Rome. They freak out the first time they hear me say, Oolioos KYser. :lol: I just tell them I pronounce Latin as it was spoken, not as the Catholic Church pronounces it. Most of them become interested in this immediately.

I have the Cambridge book! There are some rather interesting stories in there.

I always got mixed up with who was who....

I always got mixed up with who was who....

It's simple - Caecilius est pater, Metella est mater, Quintus est filius, Cerberus est canis, Grumio est coquus, Clemens est servus et Melissa est ancilla!

Did anyone else find it really cheesy after the eruption of Pompeii when Quintus suddenly had a personality morph into this James Bond-like character?

It's simple - Caecilius est pater, Metella est mater, Quintus est filius, Cerberus est canis, Grumio est coquus, Clemens est servus et Melissa est ancilla!

Did anyone else find it really cheesy after the eruption of Pompeii when Quintus suddenly had a personality morph into this James Bond-like character?

I think those were the books we used in high school. In college, I used Wheelock's Latin, which is pretty good.

My Latin teacher in high school was always really cheesy, but unfortunately, due to budget cuts, my old high school no longer offers Latin.

RE the chariot races. We used to have quidditch games on these forums. I was a beater. We had teams and we would all get on line at a certain time and start posting. Those were the days! OK back on topic.

I find it interesting that I can read Latin as well as I do because I am self-taught. The declensions are awful but then I took German in college.

RE the chariot races. We used to have quidditch games on these forums. I was a beater. We had teams and we would all get on line at a certain time and start posting. Those were the days! OK back on topic.

I find it interesting that I can read Latin as well as I do because I am self-taught. The declensions are awful but then I took German in college.
The declensions aren't that bad. They can be hard to understand at first, but I took Latin for four years, and it wasn't really the hardest part at all.

um its definitly already died out...no one has spoken it in like a thousand years at least.

um its definitly already died out...no one has spoken it in like a thousand years at least.
No reason to not learn it though, since it's the root of so many languages :)

Does anyone know how "Alacer" would be pronounced in Latin?

I don't think it's died out, per se, but evolved or changed. I believe that Greece still speaks a derivative of latin, much the same way the USA and Brasil speak derivatives of their "old languages." Also, all the romance languages are latin based. I can read and understand latin (for the most part) because I speak portuguese, spanish, and limited french besides english. I see the words and recognize and make connections to other languages. The sentences make sense to me...

Oh, and DarkLord7, I'm not positive how it is in latin, but I imagine that the accent would be on the last syllable since it ends with an "r". I'd guess it as al-ah-SER for the pronunciation. There's a few rules to speaking some latin-based languages that place accents on the second to last syllable with two exceptions: (1) an accent is indicated with a tilde or a hyphen or (2) it ends with the letters i, l, r, u or z. But again, I'm not certain...

Does anyone know how "Alacer" would be pronounced in Latin?

I would say "alack air", based on what I was taught at school, but I'm not a very trustworthy authority. Anyway, I think there are different schools of thought about how Latin should be pronounced.

Where is Klio when we need her?!

I am here! I'd say, Mel, that you are absolutely right about this. The classical pronunciation (the way it was probably pronounced in antiquity) is alack-air, and I'd stress it on the second syllable.

The vowels are always supposed to be clear vowels (as they would be in Italian: a = 'ah', e=e as in 'Ellie', i=ee, o=o as in 'got', u=oo)

so the tricky bit is the 'c'.
Classical Latin: always k. --> alack-air
Church Latin/Music/Italian Latin: k before a/o/u, 'ch' as in 'chips' before e and i. --> allah-chair
English Public school Latin: k before a/o/u, 's' before e and i. (and that accent also does funny things with the vowels, so the word might become ah-lace-er (???))
Erasmus pronunciation: k before a/o/u, ts before e and i (you won't usually hear this in the Engish-speaking world). --> ah-lah-tsair

I'd go for the classical option every time....

hmmm, I musta learned the "English Public School Latin" latin... :)

Oddly enough, I learnt Classical Latin, despite going to an English public school!

LOL. I bet my terminology isn't quite right.....

But I have hardly ever heard the 'public school' version, and it was usually when people who were at Eton and places like that were using it. I have no idea what the American tradition is. Incidentally, I think that there is some method to the vowel madness: I think the vowels that get twisted are also the long ones, which helps with scanning verse. But I am not sure whether this is consistent.

I think these days most schools in the Uk which do classics at all will employ people with a classics degree, and most of those will want to use classical Latin. I would assume that most Latin books will also suggest that version. :)

I learned Latin in Erasmus pronunciation, which is still quite common in the German speaking countries, and I find that the first sound you learned for Latin never quite goes away: it will always sound like that in my head, even if I can happily switch between classical and a sort of moderate English (minus the weird vowels) when I pronounce it.

What kind do they use in choral music, because I'm pretty sure I've been told to pronounce "c" as "ts" when I've been in choirs?

"C" is pronounced "ts" in Polish, too, which could explain why Erasmus Latin has remained popular in Central Europe??

Well, I was told that "Alacer" means quick, or fast.
Can anyone confirm that, since you obviously know more Latin than me?

Here's where I go for my spells and such.
http://www.freedict.com/onldict/lat.html

What I can see after typing both "quick" and "fast" (and unclicking the "exact" box), is you might have meant aceler rather than alacer... but again, I'm not sure either...

Anyway, I never took a latin class in school, but I studied french for three years in high school only to travel to Brasil for two years. I now speak portuguese fluently, spanish conversationally, and french limitedly (I know it's not a word, but it sounded good). All of my primary languages are latin based. So I glean from them. I would pronounce latin as if I were speaking one of my latin languages. For instance, it was mentioned above already, but I'd pronounce the "c" as an "s" when followed by the i/e and a "k" when followed by an a/o/u. I'd do the same with the g's as well... but that's me... And I'm not even catholic! (Not that there's anything wrong with that :D)

Well, I was told that "Alacer" means quick, or fast.
Can anyone confirm that, since you obviously know more Latin than me?

No, but I can look it up in my dictionary!

alacer adj. Warmed or excited by any (noble or base) passion, inflamed, inspired, and thereby rendered more lively, and roused to action, lively, brisk, quick, eager

The word "alacrity" in English, which comes from the same Latin root, means "briskness, cheerful readiness" (OED)

Hi! I got quick query. It's likely a simple answer; I'm just a touch unsure.

I'm trying to say: to carry out (bring forth/advance) time.

Is profero tempus correct?

So, does "velox" mean quick? Is velox classic Latin, or some branch of Latin?

So, does "velox" mean quick? Is velox classic Latin, or some branch of Latin?

Good job I hadn't put my dictionary away:

velox, -ocis adj. Swift, quick, fleet, rapid, speedy

It says that it is "quite classical", whatever that means, and gives examples from Livy and Horace, amongst others, so i guess it is classical.

Posted by Annielogic
Hi! I got quick query. It's likely a simple answer; I'm just a touch unsure.

I'm trying to say: to carry out (bring forth/advance) time.

Is profero tempus correct?

Sorry, Annie, my Latin is far too rusty to help, much as I'd like to. I'm sure Klio will know, though.

Sorry, Annie, my Latin is far too rusty to help, much as I'd like to. I'm sure Klio will know, though.


:) No worries, Melaszka! Hopefully, Klio will know the answer. :tu:

Hi! I got quick query. It's likely a simple answer; I'm just a touch unsure.

I'm trying to say: to carry out (bring forth/advance) time.

Is profero tempus correct?

Sorry if I am a bit dense, but I am not quite sure wat you are trying to say in English. What does 'to carry out time' mean? Even with your additional suggestions I don't understand.

What's the context?

Sorry if I am a bit dense, but I am not quite sure wat you are trying to say in English. What does 'to carry out time' mean? Even with your additional suggestions I don't understand.

What's the context?

It's for a story. It's a personification and his job is to control/cite time. Does this help? It's being used like the custos noctis and custos diei phrases for Night and Day, respectively, which I asked you about before. :)

Perhaps auctoritas temporis might work better?

Or do you have a recommendation for another way of indicating the personification's control of time. Thanks!

Thanks for the explanation - that makes things easier.

Well, if you want a title, I think 'custos temporis' would be a good move here, too.

if you want the verb, as in 'I control time', I'd go for 'guberno temporem', possibly. That verb means to control, guide, steer (as in a ship), manage, drive.... the problem is that you rwally can't say 'gubernator temprois' because everyone would immediately imagine the character with an Austrian accent....


'auctor temporis' would be a person who brings forth time, who cuases time, or started it.

'rector temporis' is someone who directs and guides time, steers it after a fashion.

'imperator temporis' would be someone who has total control of time.



'auctoritas' is a really strong word (and one I love because the English 'authorit' doesn't quite sum it up) - but it doesn't quite work here, I think. 'auctoritas' is something someone has, without really defining a specific thing they have auctoritas over.

If you want to be very strong, you might go for 'imperium temporis' - that means total control of time, in a sort of imperious way....



Does any of this make sense for your purpose?

Well, if you want a title, I think 'custos temporis' would be a good move here, too.

I originally came up with the idea of using custos for both Night and Day to closely connect the two, where as Time I decided to give a slightly seperate identity.

the problem is that you rwally can't say 'gubernator temprois' because everyone would immediately imagine the character with an Austrian accent....

Ah . . :lol:


'auctor temporis' would be a person who brings forth time, who cuases time, or started it.

'rector temporis' is someone who directs and guides time, steers it after a fashion.

'imperator temporis' would be someone who has total control of time.


Does any of this make sense for your purpose?

Yes, those are fabulous! Thank you! I'm leaning towards using rector temporis. I think it would be perfect!

I love Latin! It's really hard, though. Takes a lot of work.

I'm taking Latin this year in school and it helps because I know a lot of people who took it to try and understand the spells. for example: the counter charm for 'Lumos' is 'nox', which means night in latin. It's all very helpful

I'm not sure that learning Latin is more difficult that learning any other language than your native language. However, although I taught myself to speak Spanish quite well (I was already fluent in French), I haven't liked learning Latin without an actual teacher to back me up. But I do love reading Latin and now all the books that I read as a small child are even more interesting to me.*

*I read when I was tiny and went through the Harvard Classics five foot shelf of books at a very early age because that was what was available to me.

Harrius est virilus puer. Amant Harrius, est fortis victor.

Draco est molestus puer. Draco est ignavus, et abominit Harrius quod Harrius est clarus.

Lupinum est bene versipullus.

Snapum est morosus, sed bene. Abominit Lupinum et Sirium et James et Harrius.

Voldemort est scelestus. Abominant Voldemort. Necarit parentum Harrium.

Hermione est amica Harrius. Est callidus puella, sed parentes non magicum.

-

Just some facts about Harry Potter in Latin.

My Latin might be a bit rusty here, as it's summer in all. It would be pretty shameful if it was all incorrect though, seeing as I am going into Latin III Honors.

I had a funny thought...

According to the original Latin pronunciation of Severus (not the church latin sort of pronunciation), it would be Say-WAY-roos. Hee hee

I would pronounce it like that! I guess you don't pronounce the 2nd E, right?

I would pronounce it like that! I guess you don't pronounce the 2nd E, right?


The e sounds like a long A so you do hear both e's. Another thing I noticed with the restored pronunciation is that emphasis seems to fall on the second syllable in most names. Interesting.

Lucius is pronounced Loo-KEE-oos.

I would hate to have to read out loud to anyone anymore because I am so used to the restored pronunciation of everything that any audience would soon become annoyed with me. Caesar is pronounced KY-SAR, for instance.

Lukee-os sounds AWESOME. :D I thought it was pronounced Lush-us , tho. Hehe. :blush: Luscious, hehe.... I'll shut up now.

I only have one thing to say.

Severus severus est. :p

"Post totus hoc tempus?"
Severus: "Semper."

The e sounds like a long A so you do hear both e's. Another thing I noticed with the restored pronunciation is that emphasis seems to fall on the second syllable in most names. Interesting.

Lucius is pronounced Loo-KEE-oos.

The 'i' is short in Lucius, probably, so in Classical Latin, I think it would be pronounced LOO-key-us, with the accent on the antepenult.

In the case of "Severus," the first 'e' is short and the second 'e' is long, so it would be pronounced suh-WAY-rus.

I think we can all thank our lucky stars that the films did not use the Classical Latin pronunciations!

"Post totus hoc tempus?"
Severus: "Semper."

aterrima hora, anima repleta et roborata ut permaneat est. amor vitae essentia. ;)

Wow very intresting thread, to see how different poplations study latin. I am very interested in this because I am actually italian and for us studying latin is so easier since our language is basically that, many words are the same and the structure of sentences is similar in many occasions, I've been studying latin for 4 years now, I really like it.

Here is my favourite latin sentence, (actually a Harry Potter one ;) ):

Draco dormiens Numquam tintillandus
Do not disturb the sleeping snake

Draco dormiens Numquam tintillandus
Do not disturb the sleeping snake

I thought it translated as "Never tickle a sleeping dragon?" Hmm.

aterrima hora, anima repleta et roborata ut permaneat est. amor vitae essentia. ;)

Ita vero. :agree:

---
I got the coolest thing for my birthday! It was:

The Philosopher's Stone in LATIN! (http://www.amazon.com/Harrius-Potter-Philosophi-Lapis-Philosophers/dp/1582348251)
I didn't even know HP existed in Latin until my birthday (yesterday). I don't know a ton of Latin, but I know enough to follow along (and it helps that I've read the English about fifty thousand times too :p ). It's awesome!! And for some reason, reading it in Latin makes everything funnier. :)

Originally Posted by Lotoc_Sabbath
Draco dormiens Numquam tintillandus
Do not disturb the sleeping snake

I thought that simply meant: "Let sleeping dragons lie."

I thought that simply meant: "Let sleeping dragons lie."

Literally, it means, "A sleeping dragon [or snake] is never to be tickled." So yeah, either way.

I took a semester of Latin in college. The one warning I should give people about it is that its sentence structure is nothing like that of English. In fact, word order barely matters. The word endings give away subject/predicate instead.

Oh, and if you have a professor who's anything like mine was, the only poetry you'll be studying is most likely Catullus. Which... probably isn't good if you're under 18.

---
I got the coolest thing for my birthday! It was:

The Philosopher's Stone in LATIN! (http://www.amazon.com/Harrius-Potter-Philosophi-Lapis-Philosophers/dp/1582348251)
I didn't even know HP existed in Latin until my birthday (yesterday). I don't know a ton of Latin, but I know enough to follow along (and it helps that I've read the English about fifty thousand times too :p ). It's awesome!! And for some reason, reading it in Latin makes everything funnier. :)

Harrius Potter et philosophi lapis! It's a brilliant translation of Philosopher's Stone. My 17 year old daughter who is currently reading Latin as part of her university course simply adores the book...she says it's a welcome diversion to have something entertaining to read in Latin besides the usually 'staid' text.

I took a semester of Latin in college. The one warning I should give people about it is that its sentence structure is nothing like that of English. In fact, word order barely matters. The word endings give away subject/predicate instead.

Oh, and if you have a professor who's anything like mine was, the only poetry you'll be studying is most likely Catullus. Which... probably isn't good if you're under 18.

On the topic of sentence structure (in a roundabout way); ofttimes I see people over-capitalize in their usage of Latin...it is--or was--academic best practice to restrict capitalization to names only. Therefore a sentence may commence without capitalization unless the cardinal word is a name.

My daughter was an early entrant into university (aged 16) and Catullus was/is amongst her reading and remains unimpressed with the offerings...'bored witless' were her words. Ennius, Ovid, and Horace were a few of the poets I studied when reading Latin or so long ago.

Literally, it means, "A sleeping dragon [or snake] is never to be tickled." So yeah, either way.

I thought that simply meant: "Let sleeping dragons lie."

I thought it translated as "Never tickle a sleeping dragon?" Hmm.


I am italian so I actually translate it form Latin to Italian and then to english but in Italy other than the language you study Latin literature a lot too so I always transalte with an intepretation from the latin culture too to make it a more plain translation so here is how you analyze this:


Draco dormiens numquam tintillandus.

So there should be an "est" at the end which latin doesn't put in beacuse it is unecessary so it would actually be:

Draco dormiens numquam tindillandus est.

Draco- is the subject it means big snake in latin, it could mean dragon but only in medieval times, roman latins didn't know what dragons were they were invented in medieval times.

Dormiens- this is a verbal adjective something that doesn't exist in english it means "while he sleeps" " the one who sleeps" "sleeping"

Numquam- simply means never

Tintillandus est- This is verbal 'apposition' that actually exists only in latin (for what I know), it comes the verb "tintillo" which means disturb, it is impersonal so you translate it saying: "it is needed to disturb" "must disturb" yet this is a very bad translation, this types of verb forms always get translated depending on the sentence.


So adding the result is: Never (numquam) you must disturb (tintillandus) the sleeping (dormiens) snake (draco)

making it to have a meaning the final result is:

Never disturb the sleeping snake.





PS: I apologize for the poor english vocabulary in the sentence analysis but I study latin in italian so Id on't know how to analyse it in english.

Draco- is the subject it means big snake in latin, it could mean dragon but only in medieval times, roman latins didn't know what dragons were they were invented in medieval times.

My dictionary does not show draco = "dragon" restricted to medieval times or later. (Of course, it has no citations from Classical Latin, either.) But even granting that point, since Hogwarts was founded in medieval times and continues to the modern day, they would have been perfectly familiar with that sense in any event.

Dormiens- this is a verbal adjective something that doesn't exist in english it means "while he sleeps" " the one who sleeps" "sleeping"

I'm not sure why you think English does not have verbal adjectives: "sleeping" is a perfectly good example of one. We call them participles, but they are adjectives derived from verbs--hence, verbal adjectives.

Tintillandus est- This is verbal 'apposition' that actually exists only in latin (for what I know), it comes the verb "tintillo" which means disturb, it is impersonal so you translate it saying: "it is needed to disturb" "must disturb" yet this is a very bad translation, this types of verb forms always get translated depending on the sentence.

The textbook translation typically employs the passive voice, though as you say, this often renders rather unidiomatically. So, for instance, quod erat demonstrandum (the infamous Q.E.D. of mathematics proofs) renders OK as "[that] which was to be demonstrated" (or "which had to be demonstrated"), but de gustibus non disputandum est comes out ungainly when rendered as "[matters] of taste are not to be argued" (or "must not be argued"). I generally prefer "one cannot argue matters of taste."

Anyway, I cannot find any Latin verb tintillo, with the N. (Italian spelling, perhaps?) I can only find titillo, which has the sense(s) "tickle, titillate, provoke, stimulate sensually"; we find the first sense in Cicero, for example: multitudinis levitatem voluptate quasi titillantes. I doubt that he was speaking of people being entertained by being disturbed (at least in the sense that you mean).

It's possible for titillo to mean "disturb" (see "provoke," above), and it does make some sense in context. But I think one reason why people might like to translate it in the usual way, "Never tickle a sleeping dragon," is that it aligns nicely with a rather earlier saying, from another fantasy novel, The Hobbit: As Tolkien writes,

"Never laugh at live dragons, Bilbo you fool!" he said to himself, and it became a favorite saying of his later, and passed into a proverb.

My dictionary does not show draco = "dragon" restricted to medieval times or later. (Of course, it has no citations from Classical Latin, either.) But even granting that point, since Hogwarts was founded in medieval times and continues to the modern day, they would have been perfectly familiar with that sense in any event.

Ok yeah this confirms the fact of medieval times but I like to translate the famous sentence with Snake since I always connect it to the idea of Dark Wizards and to the Chamber of Secrets so for me it is snake I like it best to dragon.


I'm not sure why you think English does not have verbal adjectives: "sleeping" is a perfectly good example of one. We call them participles, but they are adjectives derived from verbs--hence, verbal adjectives.

Ok we have them to in italian sorry for that but I didn't know if you called lthem like that in english too.



Anyway, I cannot find any Latin verb tintillo, with the N. (Italian spelling, perhaps?) I can only find titillo, which has the sense(s) "tickle, titillate, provoke, stimulate sensually"; we find the first sense in Cicero, for example: multitudinis levitatem voluptate quasi titillantes. I doubt that he was speaking of people being entertained by being disturbed (at least in the sense that you mean).

It's possible for titillo to mean "disturb" (see "provoke," above), and it does make some sense in context. But I think one reason why people might like to translate it in the usual way, "Never tickle a sleeping dragon," is that it aligns nicely with a rather earlier saying, from another fantasy novel, The Hobbit: As Tolkien writes,

The verb tintillo with the "n" is actually and ancient form of the verb titillo which means indeed tickle or provoke but disturb too so yes it would actually be better to write tickel but I wrote the first meaning that came to my mind.
By the way regarding tintillo, the "n" was taken away in the 3-4 century b.C.

By the way regarding tintillo, the "n" was taken away in the 3-4 century b.C.

Very interesting! Are there other Latin words that had this disappearing N?

Very interesting! Are there other Latin words that had this disappearing N?

Loads! There are so many thing that changed in latin in those centuries you could consider ancient latin and latin nearly two diffrent languges.
I'll tell you what i know: firstly the 'r' was read as an 's' in fact one of the first generals was called Valerio but it was read Valesio.
The genitve and accusative for were different. The genitve actually finished with an -ed in the 1,2 and 4 declination. I don't know many in my mind but if you are intrested I could search up my old latin literature book and tell you loads more.

In Greek High Schools, apart from Greek, ancient Greek and English, it's also obligatory to study Latin. I've studied Latin for like, half a year now and they remind me so much of English and French :) I already know half of the words we learn :lol: Plus, lots of Harry Potter words originate from Latin...

P.S. Carpe Diem :tu:

Oh man...I studied Latin when I was in high school. We had to translate texts from Cicero, Caesar, Seneca, Virgil and so forth. I remember they were quite difficult! We used to cheat during tests by texting a friend home with the first sentences of the text to translate. If he managed to find it on the internet, he texted us back with the correct translation. So we all got good grades. lol But it was risky for those who were bad at Latin because teachers usually understood that they had cheated. Luckily I wasn't one of them :D
However...I preferred Latin literature over translating authors' works which was soo damn boring. Literature was way more interesting

We had Latin lessons in school for two years, it's not difficult to learn, I had some issues with grammar or syntax, though, but it's a nice language, in general.

I'm currently in the process of translating Catullus 64. I've really come to love Catullus' poetry.