The Curse of the Hallows (3/25/08)

Discussion of The Curse of the Hallows (www.mugglenet.com/editorials/theburrow/taylors01.shtml) by Stuart Taylor.

VERY interesting editorial and I must admit that after losing my mother to cancer when I was about 6 has led me to agree with you about which Hallow I would chose. I want to know more about my mother and the Stone would help be achieve that goal.

However if I had the wand I could rid the world of tyrants like Mugabe and many others not so close and closer to home than I can mention - GWB - you know who I mean.... Then again perhaps I could right the wrongs of the world and rid the world of all the prejudices and injustices that come with them. Rid the world of poverty and misery - now that would be something!

However with the cloak I feel that sneaky and not so nice things could be done with it so even though I'd LOVE to have it. I'd be very wary about it - knowing human nature as I do. This could also apply to the wand too - I must admit.

Absolutely wonderful editorial! I agree with you completely, down to the choice of Hallow. Having lost my father at 10 and two grandparents I was very close to in the subsequent years, I'd love to have one last chat with them - preferably one where they're not suffering from their various cancers. Not to mention, there are several dead people I'd like to have a chat with - for example, Lyman Frank Baum and Lloyd Alexander (authors of the Oz books and Chronicles of Prydain, respectively).
I won't pretend that I wouldn't love to have the Cloak, simply for amusement purposes. Think of the possibilities!!! And no, I don't mean the ladies shower room (maybe in a few years). But to play pranks on my mom, eavesdrop on teachers, etc.
The wand I don't find that appealing. As inkling7 said, it would be a nice way to get rid of some not-so-popular authority figures. However, I don't believe that violence is the best way - assassinating Bush or someone else probably isn't the best resolution. Not to mention, I'm not exactly a fighter, despite nine years of karate. Walkouts are more my thing.

Once again, awesome editorial! And now, I really have to get off the school computer, class is about to end!

Hpbpoy I wasn't suggesting violence as a way to get rid of them but a subtle way of relieving them of their powers and perhaps making them 'see the light' so to speak - or if that didn't work humbling them for the remainder of their lives on earth... Either way preventing them from doing any more harm. that's one use of the wand - now for permanently getting rid of poverty, misery, injustice and inequality - use the wand if possible. I would. I think you would too.

Well, if there was anyone I'd want to use the Wand on, it wouldn't be GWB. It would be Osama bin Laden. ;)

But enough of the violence. :D

The other choice would be, as the rest of you stated - the Stone. I lost my dad in 2006 to pancreatic cancer, and while I was an adult and he was in his mid-60s, it certainly didn't take away the hurt. We were very close (I'm very much a "daddy's girl") and my girls - his granddaughters - will really never know him (they were 3 1/2 and 2 at the time of his death) and he was a such a wonderful grandpa. I also feel like I never got closure either. So, in essence, I would use it the way Harry did - just to get that brief comfort of seeing him one last time, not in pain, to tell him things perhaps I didn't get a chance to tell him before he died.

But I could also see that it could be readily and easily abused - I know my mom would probably abuse it, she misses him so much!

Although JKR's message regarding death has actually helped me a bit, as I'm sure writing the 7 books has helped her also. The reminder that death is inevitable (but not necessarily in a morbid way), and also the next great adventure and that to fight against it will get you absolutely nowhere. Death and taxes, man; death and taxes.

Good article!

This was really good.

I agree with what you guys are saying. I would want the Stone so I could talk, at least for a few minutes, to people who have died.

inkling7...so basically you'd put an Imperius Curse on Bush or do a Mass Memory Charm to end his Presidency? Wouldn't it just be easier to wait another year and then hopefully we'll have a semi-decent Democratic President (namely Obama)?

ladykrystyna, I agree with you that the HP books do provide a bit of help for many of us. I remember a VERY touching editorial in the Burrow years ago about a lady who lost her daughter and found solace in the HP books her daughter loved so much because she identified with Harry in OotP. I don't know why that one out of dozens of editorials I remember so clearly, but for some reason I do - it almost moved me to tears.

I didn't say I'd put an imperious curse on him but perhaps in order stop him and a few other world leaders doing even more harm to the world it might no be a bad idea. I don't think those who are suffering at the hands of some of these cruel and or plain stupid world leaders would want to wait another year do you? However that's now getting a bit off topic so back to the subject.... which I've now forgotten - having another seniors moment I guess.

Right the curse of the hallows and misuse of any of them would be a curse not only on the misuser but any others they were misused on. Badly put I know but my guess it the stone would be the least likely misused unless you used it to contact dead evil people only for advice.

Well, I disagree that such drastic measures need to be taken, at least in Bush's case, but I'll drop it so we don't get into politics.

I actually think the Cloak and Stone can be equally misused. The Cloak's misuses are obvious, but I don't think they'd be as serious (eavesdropping, sneaking into places, possibly robbery). The Stone's misuse would be more serious because it would be sued to breach the boundary between the worlds of the living and dead, and that's never a good thing. The dead would be miserable here, and the person who Summoned them would be miserable because they're so close but still not fully alive. The wand would be the most misused, as you indirectly pointed out, it can be used to destroy or manipulate governments, kill people, and bring a nation to its knees.

Okay, the end bell's about to ring, gotta go!

I agree that the stone and cloak could be misused and that the wand even more so but I fail to see how bringing some evil person's demise could bring a nation to it's knees could be bad. I said nothing about killing. Voldemort had to go because he was pure evil and believe me there are some world leaders who could almost give him a run for his money - but that's for another thread - but it took the wand to finally defeat him and get rid of him for good - or so we all think......

Getting rid of evil leaders wouldn't bring a naiton to its knees - some, like those of North Korea or Iran, would be better off gone. However, the wand coudl also be used to get rid of benevolent leaders and set up a totalitarian state. Just Imperius all of Congress, or create a national emergency to give the President full power, etc. It would be very easy.

However I was using the premise that's what we could do with the wand and I am assuming none of us would would be evil enough to want to get rid of the benevolent users - just those committing genocide of certain races in a Hitler-like way. At least I know I wouldn't want to. But like I said that's for a different thread and shouldn't really be discussed here. So I'll say no more.

It seems that the hallows would indeed be a curse and all of them could be misused in varying degrees so it's just as well they don't really exist.

Ok guys can we get back to focusing on the editorial?!

Oh, if you insist! ;)

What have I begun!?

:rotfl: a great discussion :)

I've been watching it with interest and getting a new insight into our members :scared:

Is that good or bad?

Personally, I think that the 3 Hallows were just another trail of breadcrumbs Jo left for us to follow and enjoy between books, creating mystery, suspense and sales for the 7th. For my money, she could have titled it "The 7th Horocrux," leaving the 3 McGuffins as merely "useful magical objects" and devoted the space saved to tying up some other loose ends a little more elegantly.

The Wand is just a magical blunderbuss, a better way of knocking an enemy down -- assuming one HAS a lot of enemies that need knocking down. (And its probably the reason that Odo the Wizard in the song was buried with his wand broken and his hat turned inside out -- "you never can tell about these things). It's a rather self-limiting kind of evil: use it too much or too openly and someone will take it away

Evading enemies, with the Cloak (especially if, like Harry you're badly outgunned and outnumbered) is a good deal more useful for a virtuous Hero. But there's even more potential for misuse by thief, spy, assassin or Peeping Tom -- and even greater temptation to become one.

Harry found what is probably the only innocent use for the Stone, although he didn't strictly speaking need it since he could have found the same comfort and support in his own memories. But, the McGuffin was there to be used, and the throwing it away was a nice touch showing Harry's growth in wisdom and maturity.

Other than that, messing around with the boundary between Life and Death -- "Necromancy" -- is one of the top reasons Muggles want to burn Wizards. This is Dark Magic indeed, perhaps even more so than making Horocruxes. Yes, the Horocrux involves committing a murder, mutilating ones own soul, and binding it to the world of the living, potentially forever. The methods are extremely bad, but the purposes is not so very different from that of making of a Sorcerer's Stone. The Hallows Stone, on the other hand, involves actually breaching the supposedly inviolate boundry between the Living and the Dead.

Even those who believe there's a Heaven, that we're all reunited with our loved ones there, and that the Blessed can hear the fervent thoughts of the Living -- maybe especially those people -- don't want the Hereafter tested and interrogated by means of an artifact whose exact origins we can't know for certain. And do we really want to rely on the information or advice of Shades who we think look like people we know, or would like to have known ?

In Potterverse we can be pretty sure that 'everyday' magic ... which mostly consists of moving people and things around or changing their appearance ... is cost-free and not even particularly tiring. We've got some hints, on the other hand, that Dark Magic has consequences for the user as well as whatever it's used on.

Wizards have traditionally wanted to speak with the dead to ask one of two questions 1) Who killed you ? and 2) Where did you hide the treasure? The problem is: even if the answers are true, are they more valuable than the spiritual/magical/moral cost of resorting to Dark Magic to get them?

What have I begun!? A free therapy session! :D
I've been watching it with interest and getting a new insight into our members Yup, always good to know about the people behind the HP-related user names and theories!

Harry found what is probably the only innocent use for the Stone, although he didn't strictly speaking need it since he could have found the same comfort and support in his own memories.
What memories? His parents were killed when he was 1, he doesn't have any memories! The only recollection we ever get is the falsh of green light, which isn't what yo want to remember.
He only knew Sirius for 2 years, most of which consisted of letters and a few school holidays spent together, during most of which Siirus was in a very bad mood.
I'll grant you that he actually has recollecitons of Remus, but one out of four aint that good.

What memories? His parents were killed when he was 1, he doesn't have any memories! The only recollection we ever get is the falsh of green light, which isn't what yo want to remember.
He only knew Sirius for 2 years, most of which consisted of letters and a few school holidays spent together, during most of which Siirus was in a very bad mood.
I'll grant you that he actually has recollecitons of Remus, but one out of four aint that good.

Good point ... what Harry might have thought he remembered about his family as a result of The Mirror, moving photographs, and what other people had told him, obviously couldn't be nearly as satisfactory as phantoms conjured up by the Stone ...