Read-a-Thon: OotP Chapters 22

Sharing the rest of my notes that I made last night:

The Vanishing Glass

I had almost completely forgotten about poor Harry in his cupboard!! *Facepalm*. And his sellotaped glasses!!
Some boring (for lack of a better word) description was used all in one or two paragraphs. "Harry got slowly out of bed", "Put them on" (his socks), "When he was dressed he went down the hall". Got, put and went, are all quite boring words, and not very descriptive. I think it shows that as a writer Jo wasn't as well developed as she is now (kind of obvious...)
I wanted to bring up some points about the kind of magic Harry does at this stage. In desperate situations Harry can perform little bits of magic (as do all young witches and wizards). We know that with some children it can be more developed than others. Can older wizards produce this kind of magic in desperate situations? Or can children only produce this magic because they haven't learnt to channel their magic? Can learning to use a wand be something to do with this? Without wands would everyone be able to channel the magic out of their own bodies? So many questions! :lol:
Why didn't Harry suspect anything about his parents or his abilities before? We have seen in the series that it is in his nature for him to be curious.
What ever happened to the Boa Constrictor...?
Lastly, why didn't an outsider ever notice Harry's mistreatment and do something about it? Surely it was suspicious that Harry's clothes were horrible and that he looked a mess, compared to Dudley who was given everything...


The Letters From No One

Just wondering, do they change "Secondary School" to "High School" in the US Edition?
Vernon made me laugh so much in this chapter! Knocking in a nail with a fruit cake! :rotfl: That never fails to amuse me
I noticed, in comparison to the other books, how little description everything was given. It's very different from other books such as OotP, where a lot of description is given for everything.
"No Post on Sundays", he reminded them happily as he spread marmalade on his newspapers. I had never noticed that before!!


Other people have already answered this, but yeah it's my understanding that magical people can not help but to do magic--as Arianna proves in DH. The wand gives a wizard/witch a channel through which to work their magic through. The wand gives magic more direction and more power.

HA HA!! I've never noticed the "marmalade on the newspaper" thing either! I guess I still didn't notice it when I read yesterday. How odd....

Because he was a Horcrux, he could communicate with the snake, in a way he could not with any of the other animals at the zoo.

Secondary school is seven years, just like Hogwarts.

It's sort of like Middle School and High School combined, in US terms.

Well, some people call it High School here, not knowing the actual American school system. Hogwarts is an example of a secondary school. We go to secondary school from the age of 11, then have 5 years compulsary education and at the end of it we get GCSEs (OWLs in the Potterverse), and then an extra two years and it is our choice whether we stay on or not. In those two years we get A Levels (NEWTS in Harry Potter ). Hope that helped.

OH!! Thanks!! :) I was a bit confused. In the US we have elementary school, middle school/junior high school, and high school. I think I like the idea of secondary school better, though. :D

"Lastly, why didn't an outsider ever notice Harry's mistreatment and do something about it? Surely it was suspicious that Harry's clothes were horrible and that he looked a mess, compared to Dudley who was given everything..."

You have to remember what kind of neighborhood the Dursley's lived in. Everyone thought Harry was odd or even insane. I believe the Dursley's kept their heads down and did what they had to in order to keep him quiet. I'm not sure that any outsiders were able to see that he lived in a cupboard.
Yes, I think so too. :) The Dursley's mostly tried to keep Harry hidden and pretend that he wasn't there. And the neighbors didn't question anything because he was "That nasty Potter boy." Everyone tried to stay away from him, so they naturally wouldn't try to help him. And the Dursley's had to provide some care for him. If they didn't, it would be child abuse and they would be afraid of being arrested. I mean, they bought Harry his glasses...

i never noticed the marmalade on the newspapers thing either! i need to read slower i guess!

Because he was a Horcrux, he could communicate with the snake, in a way he could not with any of the other animals at the zoo.


Could he also communicate with snakes because Tom Riddle was a parselmouth AND some of his power was transferred during the original attack on Harry in Godric's Hallow or was it only because he was a Horcrux...

The more the merry:rockon:.

That's great! I had been planning on rereading the series as well, starting from the beginning. I wish I had done that actually before reading DH but I didn't have time. At least this way, it will be well paced and there will actually be people to discuss it with. Thank you for organizing this :love: It's our very own virtual Harry Potter book club! I guess I'm already a day behind so I better find my beat up copy of SS and start reading:lol:

Could he also communicate with snakes because Tom Riddle was a parselmouth AND some of his power was transferred during the original attack on Harry in Godric's Hallow or was it only because he was a Horcrux...

In my opinion, the two statements you are contrasting, are interchangheable. Harry has Voldemort's powers, because they came with the soul bit, in my reading.

If it matters to you, Rowling has stated that Harry is no longer a Parselmouth, which would seem to support the idea that the soul bit was what gave Harry the "powers".

Nigel: Can Harry speak Parseltongue when he is no longer a horcrux?

J.K. Rowling: No, he loses the ability, and is very glad to do so.

(complete text of interview here: http://www.bloomsbury.com/jkrevent/)

I agree with zgirnius. Harry was only a Parselmouth because of the Horcrux within him, and this was one of the powers that was transfered to him in the process of Voldemort leaving part of his soul within Harry. Without the Horcrux, Harry would have never had this ability. :)

great point. i never realized that jkr had said that.

Thanks for the info zgirnius :)

While we're discussing the snake, there was something I was wondering. Do parsel mouths have some type of connection with snakes aside from being able to speak to them? Vernon was knocking on the glass and attempting to get the snake to move, but it wouldn't. Then Harry stood in front of the tank and "looked intently at it", without speaking, and the Snake opened its eyes and winked at Harry.

While we're discussing the snake, there was something I was wondering. Do parsel mouths have some type of connection with snakes aside from being able to speak to them? Vernon was knocking on the glass and attempting to get the snake to move, but it wouldn't. Then Harry stood in front of the tank and "looked intently at it", without speaking, and the Snake opened its eyes and winked at Harry.

I do think they would.I do remember also the dueling session in chamber...Harry didnt know what make him do it and he started speaking to the snake that Draco had produced ,its like there is the sort of magnetism in between them...along the same lines is that description of Voldemort on how he possesed animals to survive while bodyless,and how his preference were snakes...so i do believe there is a kind of conection..

Speaking of snakes, I was wondering if anyone ever even heard him 'speaking' to the constrictor. I guess if I saw a young boy making hissing noises at a snake, I'd assume that he was being silly or just simply acting like a child. :D Well, they are children! :p But then Polik (or whatever Dudley's friend's name was-my brain's on the blink) says to Harry that he'd been talking to the snake. So was it in English or Parseltongue? Obviously, if it was in the hissing sounds of Parseltongue, JKR translated it into English for us. ;)

Not having read PS/SS in a couple years (yes, a couple years), I laughed out loud when I saw the joke underneath Vernon's nailing in the board with a fruitcake: he's gone nutty as a fruitcake. Think on it... ;) He's now going crazy, "nutty as a fruitcake" ;) Pardon me if I wasn't able to explain that properly: I'm horrible at explaining jokes!

But then Polik (or whatever Dudley's friend's name was-my brain's on the blink) says to Harry that he'd been talking to the snake. So was it in English or Parseltongue? Obviously, if it was in the hissing sounds of Parseltongue, JKR translated it into English for us. ;)

It's Piers Polkiss (the friends name). :) I think Harry was speaking Parseltongue. in CoS, "The Duelling Club" Harry speaks to a snake, and after, he needs to be told by Hermione and Ron that he was not speaking English. I presume it owuld have been the same at the zoo - Piers must have received the impression Harry and the snake were comuunicating from body language, etc. Harry may have been looking intent and gesturing as he spoke, and the snake may have seemed to respond.

Not having read PS/SS in a couple years (yes, a couple years), I laughed out loud when I saw the joke underneath Vernon's nailing in the board with a fruitcake: he's gone nutty as a fruitcake. Think on it... ;)

:lol: I never noticed that. It's a second level - that a fruitcake is hard enough to be used in place of a hammer was pretty funny in the first place, and that I did notice!

Not having read PS/SS in a couple years (yes, a couple years), I laughed out loud when I saw the joke underneath Vernon's nailing in the board with a fruitcake: he's gone nutty as a fruitcake. Think on it... ;) He's now going crazy, "nutty as a fruitcake" ;) Pardon me if I wasn't able to explain that properly: I'm horrible at explaining jokes!
What page is that on? I just looked, but I can't find it.

Are you talking about Uncle Vernon and the fruitcake? If so, it's on page 40 of the US version. Here's the sentence:
"Oh, these people's minds work in strange ways, Petunia, they're not like you and me," said Uncle Vernon, trying to knock in a nail with the piece of fruitcake Aunt Petunia had just brought him.

I hadn't read the JKR interview either where she announced Harry was no longer a parseltongue, but i do imagine Harry would have been glad to get rid of it.

Are you talking about Uncle Vernon and the fruitcake? If so, it's on page 40 of the US version. Here's the sentence:
"Oh, these people's minds work in strange ways, Petunia, they're not like you and me," said Uncle Vernon, trying to knock in a nail with the piece of fruitcake Aunt Petunia had just brought him.

Thank you very much :).

lol, i don't understand the joke i feel stupid. Maybe it's my lack of knowledge about fruitcakes? Who knows.....

Haha i get it.. unless it has more than one meaning?

Maybe it's about him going "nutty" or it's about Petunia's cooking?
:lol: okay he's gone mad...

lol, i don't understand the joke i feel stupid. Maybe it's my lack of knowledge about fruitcakes? Who knows.....
It's OK, I don't really understand it either. :whistle: I just found the fact that he was trying to nail something with a fruitcake funny. :lol: OK, the joke was "nutty as a fruitcake." Fruitcakes have nuts in them...but going "nuts" or "nutty" means going crazy. And Uncle Vernon was going crazy. So he was "nutty as a fruitcake"...:lol: nevermind, I'm confusing myself.

It's OK, I don't really understand it either. :whistle: I just found the fact that he was trying to nail something with a fruitcake funny. :lol: OK, the joke was "nutty as a fruitcake." Fruitcakes have nuts in them...but going "nuts" or "nutty" means going crazy. And Uncle Vernon was going crazy. So he was "nutty as a fruitcake"...:lol: nevermind, I'm confusing myself.

Ohhhh, thank you. For some reason i was thinking of a fruit salad and i was wondering how someone could nail something in with a fruit salad.... wow.

HAHA!!!!!! omg that was my favourite post all day BenGerman! hee hee!

it can be looked at a few ways..
1. most fruitcakes have nuts so, since fruitcakes are nutty, it's a reference to being insane
2. some people may think it's funny because the fruitcake was hard enough to nail a board in. I know in America, giving fruitcake for Christmas is tradition but people never like to receive it because they always taste like Hagrid's cooking
2. The sentence reads ["Oh, these people's minds work in strange ways, Petunia, they're not like you and me," said Uncle Vernon, trying to knock in a nail with the piece of fruitcake Aunt Petunia had just brought him.] It's actually quite ironic that Vernon is making a stab at the way wizards minds work however he is using a piece of cake to nail in a board. A hammer perhaps?

:)

it can be looked at a few ways..
1. most fruitcakes have nuts so, since fruitcakes are nutty, it's a reference to being insane
2. some people may think it's funny because the fruitcake was hard enough to nail a board in. I know in America, giving fruitcake for Christmas is tradition but people never like to receive it because they always taste like Hagrid's cooking
2. The sentence reads ["Oh, these people's minds work in strange ways, Petunia, they're not like you and me," said Uncle Vernon, trying to knock in a nail with the piece of fruitcake Aunt Petunia had just brought him.] It's actually quite ironic that Vernon is making a stab at the way wizards minds work however he is using a piece of cake to nail in a board. A hammer perhaps?

:)

:) Thank you for summing that up for those of us who were confused. The third thing you said was what I found most hilarious about it. :lol:

heehee :rotfl:
haha we're going crazy over a joke hehe

Ok i think I finally understand it all now, thank you for explaining it to me. lol, it is pretty funny on a couple of levels it just took me like 10 years to actually get the joke. Oh well, at least i know now thanks again...

it can be looked at a few ways..
1. most fruitcakes have nuts so, since fruitcakes are nutty, it's a reference to being insane
2. some people may think it's funny because the fruitcake was hard enough to nail a board in. I know in America, giving fruitcake for Christmas is tradition but people never like to receive it because they always taste like Hagrid's cooking
2. The sentence reads ["Oh, these people's minds work in strange ways, Petunia, they're not like you and me," said Uncle Vernon, trying to knock in a nail with the piece of fruitcake Aunt Petunia had just brought him.] It's actually quite ironic that Vernon is making a stab at the way wizards minds work however he is using a piece of cake to nail in a board. A hammer perhaps?

:)
:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

*wipes eyes* Thanks for that! :D I understood most of the joke but I didn't think about some of those things. The last one was just too much. :lol:

No problem guys! Glad we are able to get such a kick out of a single sentence. Thanks to the person who even pointed that sentence out because before today, I never even realized it was there!

I wonder how many more different tidbits we can catch like that..an earlier person pointed out about Uncle Vernon 'happily spreading marmalade on his newspaper'

heehee :lol:
we are so crazy.. dying over one sentence
it's now my favourite sentence :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

No problem guys! Glad we are able to get such a kick out of a single sentence. Thanks to the person who even pointed that sentence out because before today, I never even realized it was there!

I wonder how many more different tidbits we can catch like that..an earlier person pointed out about Uncle Vernon 'happily spreading marmalade on his newspaper'

I hope we can find more, I'm finding these so amusing. It's amazing how much more you can catch when you're reading slowly and taking time to look for the little things.

Speaking of the "These people's minds work in strange ways" quote, I don't understand why Vernon thought that due to the fact that they're wizards, they're more inclined to give up if they can't deliver the letter. As we clearly saw soon enough, the opposite was true. I love how Vernon says that with such authority, though; as if he's an expert on the way wizards' minds work :whistle:.

LOL! I loved that last line you posted! heehee! :rotfl:

yeah he saying it like, I know what they're doing and how they do it... it's horrible! you know, "been there done that" type way :lol:

Also, not sure if this has been mentioned, but we call people who are crazy fruit cakes...not certain why. I just loved the irony of Vernon criticising wizards for their strange behaviour when he obviously wasn't right in the head himself. :)

haaha lol :lol:

so basically someone talking about how crazy they are... is also lost in the hope of a hammer. a fruitcake. heehee

Also, not sure if this has been mentioned, but we call people who are crazy fruit cakes...not certain why. I just loved the irony of Vernon criticising wizards for their strange behaviour when he obviously wasn't right in the head himself. :)

Yeah, I've heard the fruitcake expression. This is such a great line all around, with so many different implications (if that wasn't already made obvious by how much we've talked about it :lol:).

I just noticed something peculiar. Animagus can do magic while in their animagus forms; which means wandless magic.

Vernon was leaving for the office and he sees a cat reading a map. He shakes himself and looks around, now the cat was looking at the sign Privet Drive.

It was on the corner of the street that he noticed the first sign of something peculiar-- a cat reading a map. For a second Mr. Dursley didn't realise what he had seen -- then he jerked his head around to look again. There was a tabby cat on the corner of Privet Drive, but there wasn't a map in sight.

This does not have any significane except that we know one more point about animagus and their abilities. They can conjure and vanish stuff.

I just noticed something peculiar. Animagus can do magic while in their animagus forms; which means wandless magic.

Vernon was leaving for the office and he sees a cat reading a map. He shakes himself and looks around, now the cat was looking at the sign Privet Drive.

It was on the corner of the street that he noticed the first sign of something peculiar-- a cat reading a map. For a second Mr. Dursley didn't realise what he had seen -- then he jerked his head around to look again. There was a tabby cat on the corner of Privet Drive, but there wasn't a map in sight.

This does not have any significane except that we know one more point about animagus and their abilities. They can conjure and vanish stuff.

Wow, that's so interesting! Great catch, and thank you so much for posting that! :tu:

That's really interesting The_Green_Woods. I wonder why the normal rules of needing a wand don't apply. I mean, obviously an animal cannot use a wand, but it can somehow channel its magic without a wand.

Wow. I'm gone for a day and a half and there are 6 new pages...if you guys keep up with this pace I'm never going to be able to catch up. I don't have time to read 6 pages worth everytime I come on (and I don't come on as often as I used to). Don't take this the wrong way, though. It's great that the first three chapters have that much to talk about.

When McGonagall transforms, she transforms with her wand on her. Perhaps she is able to channel her magic because of that? Then that means any animaguc could do magic.

How about Peter? He lived as a rat for 13 years. And he also had his wand and Voldemort's wand on him, I think, because Voldemort gets his won wand in the graveyard. Would he have done magic when he was in the Weasley house hold?

When McGonagall transforms, she transforms with her wand on her. Perhaps she is able to channel her magic because of that? Then that means any animaguc could do magic.

A great point and I agree. When transforming she has her wand, and therefore can produce magic. It's just strange to think of her wand transforming to be part of her cat being.

How about Peter? He lived as a rat for 13 years. And he also had his wand and Voldemort's wand on him, I think, because Voldemort gets his won wand in the graveyard. Would he have done magic when he was in the Weasley house hold?

I think that he probably could have produced magic, but maybe didn't want to in fear of revealing himself or giving himself too much unwanted attention.

wow i missed all these points! It makes me wonder how powerful magic you need to ahve to be an animagus....

I never really caught that about McGonagall and the map-good eye! :) Interesting Scabbers/Peter didn't use any magic as a rat-maybe he didn't want to give himself away? Isn't there only so much he could have done without drawing attention to himself? We're bordering on PoA discussion now, and that won't be for a while! :lol:

Anyway, here are some notes I took on the second chapter:

As I read the first few pages, I wondered: why did the Dursleys even both with giving him glasses-in fact glasses that worked? Why not just fake or...or unless...unless perhaps the glass adjusted themselves to his sight via magic Harry didn't know he had. It would be like his hair growing back after Petunia gave him that Military haircut (or that's how I see it in my head ;)) or the shrinking of the ugly jumper (I wouldn't want that on me either!) until it could fit a glove puppet.

Also, why did the Dursleys even bother with giving him education as well? I'm sure they would not want to have to pay for Harry (they'd be more than willing to pay for Dudley's though-naturally). It seems like a contradiction of their nature towards Harry, as they don't give him much else in terms of luxury like they do Dudley.

It is in this chapter Mrs Figg is mentioned for the first time; she strikes me as a stereotypical cat lady: crazy, has a million cats, old and cooking is about as bad as Hagrid's. ;)
And if anyone can tell me what on earth a 'knickerbocker' (page 24, Bloomsbury edition) that would be good. :)

The winking snake bothers me: snakes are sans eyelids! But maybe it was a magical Boa Constrictor with eyelids or just a genetic mutation (I stay away from the phrase 'genetic freak' as it's got not so kind connotations). It happens all the time in animals.

I also saw signs of anthropomorphism (putting human emotions and actions onto an animal/inanimate object) in terms of the snake's interaction with Harry-e.g. the furious nodding. How does he know that means 'yes'? Different cultures have different ways of saying 'yes': there's one country (Belgium I think, unless I'm wrong) where you shake your head, not nod to say 'yes'.

I like the description of the 'low hissing noise' the snake makes when saying 'Thankssss amigo'. A description of Parseltongue! And doesn't Voldy make that same sort of hissing sound too?

I noticed on pg27 that Harry may not have remembered everything that happened that fateful night, but he does seem to be able to recall a flash of green light (the AK curse) and burning pain on forehead (scar).

Also, why did the Dursleys even bother with giving him education as well? I'm sure they would not want to have to pay for Harry (they'd be more than willing to pay for Dudley's though-naturally). It seems like a contradiction of their nature towards Harry, as they don't give him much else in terms of luxury like they do Dudley.

They didn't have to pay for Harry's education. From what I saw he went to a public school, and didn't seem to pay much for his school uniform as it was all of Dudley's old clothes. If Harry didn't go to school it would have caused more trouble. Also, the Dursley's were trying to stamp out Harry's magic. Perhaps they thought that by sending him to school with "normal" people he would become a "normal" child.

And if anyone can tell me what on earth a 'knickerbocker' (page 24, Bloomsbury edition) that would be good. :)

It's a kind of ice cream dessert, with layers of fruit, cream and gelatin. :)

They didn't have to pay for Harry's education. From what I saw he went to a public school, and didn't seem to pay much for his school uniform as it was all of Dudley's old clothes. If Harry didn't go to school it would have caused more trouble. Also, the Dursley's were trying to stamp out Harry's magic. Perhaps they thought that by sending him to school with "normal" people he would become a "normal" child.

That sounds reasonable as the Dursleys did want to look normal. And besides, there probably would have been someone who'd have alerted the right authorities if they knew a school-age child was being held back at school.


[quote=LoonyMagic[/quote]It's a kind of ice cream dessert, with layers of fruit, cream and gelatin. :)
Thanks for clearing that up for me! :)

They didn't have to pay for Harry's education. From what I saw he went to a public school, and didn't seem to pay much for his school uniform as it was all of Dudley's old clothes. If Harry didn't go to school it would have caused more trouble.

I think the glasses are the same idea. At least in the US, where I grew up, I had occasional vision tests and hearing tests conducted by the school nurse. I would be surprised to learn this is not done in schools in the UK. I did not need glasses, but I would imagine that for kids who failed such tests, their families would be notified and expected to follow up appropriately by seeing eye doctors for glasses. The Dursleys' lack of care shows up in not replacing the frames when they break, etc.

And if anyone can tell me what on earth a 'knickerbocker' (page 24, Bloomsbury edition) that would be good.

It's a kind of ice cream dessert, with layers of fruit, cream and gelatin.
:lol: I was wondering about that, aren't underpants called 'knickers' in England? Strange name for a dessert...but it sounds yummy! :D

I think the glasses are the same idea. At least in the US, where I grew up, I had occasional vision tests and hearing tests conducted by the school nurse. I would be surprised to learn this is not done in schools in the UK. I did not need glasses, but I would imagine that for kids who failed such tests, their families would be notified and expected to follow up appropriately by seeing eye doctors for glasses. The Dursleys' lack of care shows up in not replacing the frames when they break, etc.
Yes, that's how it works. That's how I got my glasses. :) And I agree that the Dursley's show how little they care for Harry by his taped-up glasses. I suppose they couldn't avoid buying him glasses in the first place or the school would get them in trouble. So they just didn't get them repaired at all and they most likely didn't take Harry to the optometrist to get his eyes checked up on every once and a while like they're supposed to.

:lol: I was wondering about that, aren't underpants called 'knickers' in England? Strange name for a dessert...but it sounds yummy! :D


Yes, that's how it works. That's how I got my glasses. :) And I agree that the Dursley's show how little they care for Harry by his taped-up glasses. I suppose they couldn't avoid buying him glasses in the first place or the school would get them in trouble. So they just didn't get them repaired at all and they most likely didn't take Harry to the optometrist to get his eyes checked up on every once and a while like they're supposed to.

1. Yes, they're called knickers in England (as well as its former Commonwealth colonies such as NZ (my nation), Australia and elsewhere that escapes my brain :p).

2. I can see the Dursleys not taking him to the optometrist every once in a while-I agree with that. But I wonder if the lenses somehow adjusted themselves through magic Harry didn't know he had if his sight became worse or better?

I think the glasses are the same idea. At least in the US, where I grew up, I had occasional vision tests and hearing tests conducted by the school nurse. I would be surprised to learn this is not done in schools in the UK. I did not need glasses, but I would imagine that for kids who failed such tests, their families would be notified and expected to follow up appropriately by seeing eye doctors for glasses. The Dursleys' lack of care shows up in not replacing the frames when they break, etc.

Well, I've never had that happen at my own school, but I've heard it happen at other schools, and I think it was more common for that to happen in the past. From personal experience, I've had to find out about my eye sight myself and I've never had a hearing test. Perhaps it was just my own school. :)

:lol: I was wondering about that, aren't underpants called 'knickers' in England? Strange name for a dessert...but it sounds yummy! :D

Yeah, womens underpants are called knickers :lol:. It is very strange that it's called that, but there we go. :)

2. I can see the Dursleys not taking him to the optometrist every once in a while-I agree with that. But I wonder if the lenses somehow adjusted themselves through magic Harry didn't know he had if his sight became worse or better?
That's a very interesting idea. :tu: From my own experience, I know that the lenses of glasses have to be changed every once in a while because eyes learn to depend on the glasses to see, and your eyesight gradually gets worse if you wear them regularly.

Harry had performed accidental wandless magic many times before, mostly because it benefited him (ex. when he grew all of his hair back after Aunt Petunia shaved it off), so I think it's quite possible that Harry inadvertantly was able to adjust his lenses. :)

I also saw signs of anthropomorphism (putting human emotions and actions onto an animal/inanimate object) in terms of the snake's interaction with Harry-e.g. the furious nodding. How does he know that means 'yes'? Different cultures have different ways of saying 'yes': there's one country (Belgium I think, unless I'm wrong) where you shake your head, not nod to say 'yes'.



You're right about the anthromorphism. A snake wouldn't know that nodding means yes. But I don't think it is Belgium were you shake your head when you mean yes. I've been they're several times, and live pretty close (the Netherlands), and I've never heard of it (I even had a Belgian teacher when I studied linguistics, and we discussed the differences between the Dutch they speak in Belgium and the Netherlands).

I think the glasses are the same idea. At least in the US, where I grew up, I had occasional vision tests and hearing tests conducted by the school nurse. I would be surprised to learn this is not done in schools in the UK. I did not need glasses, but I would imagine that for kids who failed such tests, their families would be notified and expected to follow up appropriately by seeing eye doctors for glasses. The Dursleys' lack of care shows up in not replacing the frames when they break, etc.

Yes, we had that too here. My eyes and hearing were tested at school. I can imagine that it is the same in the UK.

It's a kind of ice cream dessert, with layers of fruit, cream and gelatin. :)

haha thanks for that one.
I too was imagning a underwear type thing.. maybe they gave ice-cream in the shape of an underwear...?
so it's like one of those... can't remeber what its called... :whistle::cool::no:

Anyways earlier we were discussing mcgonagall using magic as an animagus. I think that it's because she's a really poweerful witch and performs magic without wands at times and maybe it's something you have to know when you become an nimagus, and the reason peter and sirius didn't have it is becasue they became animagus'es ILEGALLY so they did'nt meet the FULL requirements. Or maybe not enough time....:cool:

Knickers/knickerbockers is also a reference to short pants, knee length. The fashion is more obsolete than the term. It was from a time when part of the right of passage from boy to young man was being able to get out of 'short pants' and wear full-length trousers.

The term, at least in its usage in the USA, may have Dutch roots. It can refer to a descendant of the early Dutch settlers of New York (New Amsterdam) or to New York natives. That's why the New York City NBA team is the Knicks.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/knickerbocker

They didn't have to pay for Harry's education. From what I saw he went to a public school, and didn't seem to pay much for his school uniform as it was all of Dudley's old clothes. If Harry didn't go to school it would have caused more trouble. Also, the Dursley's were trying to stamp out Harry's magic. Perhaps they thought that by sending him to school with "normal" people he would become a "normal" child.

Yeah i agree with you here 100%, and for some reason i remember one of them saying(the Dursley's), they in fact attempted to make him normal. I'm not sure if this is true, but for some reason i remember something along these lines.

Yes, I think JKR mentioned something about the Dursleys wanting to "squash the magic out of him" or something similiar to that effect. I believe it's in the second chapter somewhere.

Yes, I think JKR mentioned something about the Dursleys wanting to "squash the magic out of him" or something similiar to that effect. I believe it's in the second chapter somewhere.

I don't know is this is what you're thinking of, but on P. 36 (US Edition)
"I'm not having one in the house, Petunia! Didn't we swear when we took him in we'd stamp out that dangerous nonsense?"

I don't know is this is what you're thinking of, but on P. 36 (US Edition)
"I'm not having one in the house, Petunia! Didn't we swear when we took him in we'd stamp out that dangerous nonsense?"

Yeah thats exactly what i was talking about thanks... Knew i remembered reading it somewhere...

i think what is/was difficult for me to understand when i first read this novel WHY the Dursley's were so AGAINST magic. Let's face it; from what we can see from the first few chapters, Harry was treated quite horribly:

1. "Harry was frying eggs by the time Dudley arrived in the kitchen with his mother" -- what child fries eggs at that age?"
2. He got that horrible haircut which thankfully grew back within the night
3. He was given 2nd hand Dudley clothes
4. He never had much of a Christmas
5. The child never had a true birthday
6. Did I mentioned he lived under the stairs..

Just some speculation..why do you think he was able to rise above all the abuse? Let's face it, the Dursley's may not have abused Harry physically but they neglected him in every form of the word socially, and verbally.
-do we think it's simply his genetics? Lily's kindness infused into his core?
-do we think it is because Harry did not want to become like the Dursley's?
-do we think he knew that someday he would break out of this horrendous situation?

I think the fact that Harry didn't complain, or at least truly verbalize his complaints sets the tone for the entire book. Harry always rises above the situation that is put in front of him. Although we find that he has taken the low road a few times, we still find that the core of Harry is kind and brave. Anyone agree/disagree?

I definitely think the Dursleys (Or Vernon, at least) thought they could make Harry "normal". Vernon was in denial, and I think he believed that if he ignored the truth long enough, it would just go away. I hope no one takes this comparison the wrong way, but Vernon trying to "squash the magic out of Harry" almost reminds me of people who try to "fix" homosexuals and make them straight - both equally horrible and ineffective.

wow, great point loony! i think that is an excellent comparison. for those who are disagreeable to a certain lifestyle or way of thinking, they think that by causing a person to go through he motions the core of the person will change. i don't think you can ever change the 'core' or 'soul' of the person. Harry is much the same. they thought they could stifle it long enough for it to just go away, but i think that's why things like the 'vanishing glass' or 'blowing up aunt marge' happened. he was forced to keep it in for so long or keep quiet (out of sight out of mind) that he would freak out.

1. "Harry was frying eggs by the time Dudley arrived in the kitchen with his mother" -- what child fries eggs at that age?"


Do you mean at age ten? I'm sure there are other (non-abused) kids who start cooking some eggs at that age. :) Coming from someone who hasn't fried an egg sucessfully here! :err:

I definitely think the Dursleys (Or Vernon, at least) thought they could make Harry "normal". Vernon was in denial, and I think he believed that if he ignored the truth long enough, it would just go away. I hope no one takes this comparison the wrong way, but Vernon trying to "squash the magic out of Harry" almost reminds me of people who try to "fix" homosexuals and make them straight - both equally horrible and ineffective.

Yeah i agree it's a great comparison, i think he just hoped he would just grow up and be normal, but i have a question.

I know the Dursley's didn't want to be associated with the magical world, but if they didn't care for Harry why did they care what he turned into? Were they possibly hoping they could eventually grow to care for him, and forget what his parents were? I'm just not sure that the motive behind them not wanting Harry to be a wizard was them not wanting to be associated with the magical world. I believe there was a little bit more to it.

wow, great point loony! i think that is an excellent comparison. for those who are disagreeable to a certain lifestyle or way of thinking, they think that by causing a person to go through he motions the core of the person will change. i don't think you can ever change the 'core' or 'soul' of the person. Harry is much the same. they thought they could stifle it long enough for it to just go away, but i think that's why things like the 'vanishing glass' or 'blowing up aunt marge' happened. he was forced to keep it in for so long or keep quiet (out of sight out of mind) that he would freak out.

Almost exactly like Dumbledores sister...

Do you mean at age ten? I'm sure there are other (non-abused) kids who start cooking some eggs at that age. :) Coming from someone who hasn't fried an egg sucessfully here! :err:

I guess that came off wrong...I'm sure there are tons of children who are more than capable of frying eggs at that age however, they shouldn't ever be forced to. does that make any sense?

i know that there are tons of 10 year olds that can hardly even be trusted near hot objects that may catch fire :lol:

i guess i meant he was being forced to do things that he ought not to. meh? hope that clears it up? maybe?

wow, great point loony! i think that is an excellent comparison. for those who are disagreeable to a certain lifestyle or way of thinking, they think that by causing a person to go through he motions the core of the person will change. i don't think you can ever change the 'core' or 'soul' of the person. Harry is much the same. they thought they could stifle it long enough for it to just go away, but i think that's why things like the 'vanishing glass' or 'blowing up aunt marge' happened. he was forced to keep it in for so long or keep quiet (out of sight out of mind) that he would freak out.
:agree: I completely agree. There are certain things that you can hide or deny as much as you want, but that doesn't change the fact that they will always be there. The Dursleys could have spent their entire lives trying to squash the magic out of Harry, but it never would have changed him being a wizard.

I know the Dursley's didn't want to be associated with the magical world, but if they didn't care for Harry why did they care what he turned into? Were they possibly hoping they could eventually grow to care for him, and forget what his parents were? I'm just not sure that the motive behind them not wanting Harry to be a wizard was them not wanting to be associated with the magical world. I believe there was a little bit more to it.
As much as I'd love to believe the Dursleys had some alterior motive, I honestly don't think they did. I think they truly loathed anything that didn't fit their definition of "normal", and did not want to any association with abnormality. They're almost control freaks, I think; they have their own strict idea of what is "right" and "normal", and they can't accept anyone who doesn't fit into that mold. However, I do believe the situation was slightly more complex for Petunia. The only magical person Petunia knew was Lily, so it would be logical that she held her feelings toward Lily against the magical world as a whole. I think she felt great resentment and envy toward Lily, and perhaps she took out this grudge on Harry since he was a wizard. (It wouldn't be the only time in the series we saw someone take their anger for someone out on that person's child :whistle:.) I also think it's possible that Petunia had regrets about everything that occurred with Lily and what happened to their relationship, all of which she blamed on Lily being a witch, and therefore she did not want any association or reminder of the magical world.
If that all made no sense, I apologize. I'm having a lot of difficulty putting my thoughts into words at the moment.

1. "Harry was frying eggs by the time Dudley arrived in the kitchen with his mother" -- what child fries eggs at that age?"


Well, yes, part of it is the mistreatment, 'CinderHarry' thing - he should be grateful 'for all they've done for him' and he oughta pull his weight by helping out, especially for golden child Dudley, etc...

I'm just a little puzzled by the second half of that comment. I was taught to cook before age 11. It's certainly not universal, but I'm sure it's not uncommon.

You seem amazed that he could cook at that age. Am I reading you wrong? Or is that really rare these days?

I agree, PrivetHedge, nothing wrong with cooking at age 10, in and of itself. I made dinner every weekday, starting at around that age, to have it ready for us all to eat when my parents got home from work. But this made sense as I was the eldest, and my parents worked and got home late-ish. In contrast we don't see Dudley, Harry's age, ever help out, or do any other chore around the house instead.

I agree with PrivetHedge and zgirnius. :) I don't think it is unusual for a ten-year-old to fry eggs. I'm pretty sure I did at that age. The thing that needs to be understood with that is that the Dursleys made Harry do everything and they never helped. It was showing us how they mistreated Harry.

Yes I agree-it's probably the neglect that JKR and 9and3quarters were talking about (in fact, he cleared it up in a later post):

I guess that came off wrong...I'm sure there are tons of children who are more than capable of frying eggs at that age however, they shouldn't ever be forced to. does that make any sense?

i know that there are tons of 10 year olds that can hardly even be trusted near hot objects that may catch fire :lol:

i guess i meant he was being forced to do things that he ought not to. meh? hope that clears it up? maybe?

In The Letters From No One I was shocked that there would be a school that advocates violence against fellow peers (Dudley's smeltings stick). JKR I really hope there isn't a school like this. :no: Do any of those who live in Britain know much about schools that promote violence?

I adore Harry's comeback about the uniform:

Petunia: Your new school uniform.
Harry: Oh. I didn't realise it had to be wet.
Cracks me up each time. :lol:
You gotta love Harry :D

I agree with PrivetHedge and zgirnius. :) I don't think it is unusual for a ten-year-old to fry eggs. I'm pretty sure I did at that age. The thing that needs to be understood with that is that the Dursleys made Harry do everything and they never helped. It was showing us how they mistreated Harry.

Yeah, i think what he was trying to say was Harry was actually forced to do all that work. I know i learned how to make eggs early on, but it's not like my parents ever woke me up, and told me to get my cooking groove on.:p

i think what is/was difficult for me to understand when i first read this novel WHY the Dursley's were so AGAINST magic. Let's face it; from what we can see from the first few chapters, Harry was treated quite horribly:

1. "Harry was frying eggs by the time Dudley arrived in the kitchen with his mother" -- what child fries eggs at that age?"
2. He got that horrible haircut which thankfully grew back within the night
3. He was given 2nd hand Dudley clothes
4. He never had much of a Christmas
5. The child never had a true birthday
6. Did I mentioned he lived under the stairs..

Just some speculation..why do you think he was able to rise above all the abuse? Let's face it, the Dursley's may not have abused Harry physically but they neglected him in every form of the word socially, and verbally.
-do we think it's simply his genetics? Lily's kindness infused into his core?
-do we think it is because Harry did not want to become like the Dursley's?
-do we think he knew that someday he would break out of this horrendous situation?

I think the fact that Harry didn't complain, or at least truly verbalize his complaints sets the tone for the entire book. Harry always rises above the situation that is put in front of him. Although we find that he has taken the low road a few times, we still find that the core of Harry is kind and brave. Anyone agree/disagree?

Certain characteristics I think Harry was born with, almost. Certain others I think the Dursleys taught him. He was made into such an oddball that he was able to look at Luna and neville differently. He was able to see the SWM in a way that may be different from say Ron. Harry developed a sensitivity that I think living with the Dursleys and asking them no questions also made him accepts others as they were. The lack of friends and the lack of people whom he could call his made him appreciate and do his best to keep his friends and people in Hogwarts. Dudley made sure he would not have any friends in Little Whinging. That taught Harry the value of frienship and people, and he keeps them for always. He is never rude and short with anyone that I remember.

Some traits were I think inborn and some cultivated because of the way the Dursleys treated him IMO. Rising above the abuse was because Harry was inherently good. At least i would like to think that way. :)

I agree, PrivetHedge, nothing wrong with cooking at age 10, in and of itself. I made dinner every weekday, starting at around that age, to have it ready for us all to eat when my parents got home from work. But this made sense as I was the eldest, and my parents worked and got home late-ish. In contrast we don't see Dudley, Harry's age, ever help out, or do any other chore around the house instead.

:blush: At 10 years I did not know even to make coffee or boil milk. I leant a bit when I was around 13/14, mainly coffee, tea and all that and cooked a few a things along with my sister for fun mostly when I 16/17. I really learnt to cook only after I got married. :rolleyes:

I think I saw Harry's plight not for the cooking actually, but that the Dursleys made it look demeaning. There is nothing worng in cooking for yourself and your family, but Harry was not asked to cook like that. He was asked to cook because he was made aware he was different from the rest of the family, especially Dudley. Same with the chores IMO. It was an issue of *do all this to earn your keep and do all this in return for all of us having to put up with you* was what bugged me.

In The Letters From No One I was shocked that there would be a school that advocates violence against fellow peers (Dudley's smeltings stick). JKR I really hope there isn't a school like this. :no: Do any of those who live in Britain know much about schools that promote violence?
Hiya,
Corporal punishment (such as caning) was still in use / legal when I was in junior school but it was made illegal in English State schools until some time in the early 1980’s (give or take a few years). I think the situation many be different in private schools but I’m not sure.

okay i think i'm being misread. it's not so much the fact that he is cooking as it is the fact that he's being FORCED to do so because Petunia is making him. I know a LOT of 10 year olds that are more than capable of making eggs but on the other side of that there are just as many that are way too immature/careless to be near a hot stove.

I think greenwoods understood me perfectly. it's the thought behind making him do it, not the actual act.

thanks greenwoods!!!

1. "Harry was frying eggs by the time Dudley arrived in the kitchen with his mother" -- what child fries eggs at that age?"


Like Marina said and others, I'm sure children could cook decent meals by age ten but the way the Dursleys treated Harry was horrible, it was like they expected him to do it. Just to be there even though they ignored him and as we found out in the car Vernon Dursley often complained about Harry too.

I do think that making him sleep under the stairs is quite mean, even though there is a perfectly good bedroom upstairs. :grumble:

C'mon guys, it's not as though he was cooking banquets or anything, merely frying eggs. Petunia wanted this day to be special for Dudley and wanted to pay more attention on Dudley, so she got Harry to do this simple task. It wasn't anything too demanding and it was so she could spend more precious time with Dudley. She may as well make use of Harry while he's there, and I think that's probably what she thought. :)

I believe a change of subject is waranted..

I think it's interesting that Petunia said that Harry was a "nasty, common name". The meaning of Harry is 'home ruler'. Anyone find that JKR chose this name due to it's meaning or because Harry is a common name?

I agree. It was not the frying of eggs or evne laying the table that bugged me. Like you said LoonyMagic, they are small things that 10 year olds can do, but it looked to me that Harry was given the chores; anything, in a manner that was belittling. At least it looked that way to me. :)

It was always *you are not good enough* and that was Petunia all the way in my opinion, because she was the one who felt that she was not good enough for magic. So she I think felt the need to look down upon the dead Lily and Harry as if to say *see what your special gift has got you, while I am safe and sound because I am normal*

Vernon IMO was only following his wife. I would blame Petunia more than Vernon, because it is her lead he and Dudley are following. Vernon was good enough to keep an orphaned nephew of his wife at home and feed him and take care of him. He did so releuctantly and looked upon Harry as unwanted and unnecessary only because his wife did.

She says he's dirt, why on earth should he go out of his way to care? In OOTP he asks Harry to get out; but when Petunia says *no chance; the boy stays* he agrees; no fight and no arguments that Harry could actually be a danger to him and his family.

In a way it was Petunia who treated Harry the way he was treated, the real abuse IMO was the feeling of not being wanted more than anything else. That took shape physically by making him do chores, Dudley would not, emotionally by making him say he was not one of them and psychologically by making him stunted in his emotional growth and maturity by neglecting his basic needs IMO.

I believe a change of subject is waranted..

I think it's interesting that Petunia said that Harry was a "nasty, common name". The meaning of Harry is 'home ruler'. Anyone find that JKR chose this name due to it's meaning or because Harry is a common name?

JKR discussed Harry's name in an interview

From where did you get the name for Harry Potter?
'Harry' has always been my favourite boy's name, so if my daughter had been a son, he would have been Harry Rowling. Then I would have had to choose a different name for "Harry" in the books, because it would have been too cruel to name him after my own son. "Potter" was the surname of a family who used to live near me when I was seven years old and I always liked the name, so I borrowed it.
http://www.scholastic.com/harrypotter/books/author/interview2.htm

oh excellent Loony! thanks. I was wondering where she got it from but i'm not as versed on all the articles that have come out over the years.

:)

I think that as well as what JKR said in that interview, having an ordinary name like Harry emphasizes the point, to me at least, that he's just a normal boy. Often it annoys me when a main character will have a complicated or very unusual name, often with some kind of meaning, and it's just so obvious that they're meant for great things. With an ordinary name it just makes him seem more ordinary...:)

I think that as well as what JKR said in that interview, having an ordinary name like Harry emphasizes the point, to me at least, that he's just a normal boy. Often it annoys me when a main character will have a complicated or very unusual name, often with some kind of meaning, and it's just so obvious that they're meant for great things. With an ordinary name it just makes him seem more ordinary...:)

:agree: I completely agree; that's how I feel about the name too.

I think that the names show the contrast between Harry and Voldemort. Tom Riddle had a common name, which he despised, because he always wanted to stand out; to be "special". So he changed it to something unique. Where as Harry, most of the time, just wanted to be normal; he didn't want to stand out or be different than everybody else. I bet Harry enjoyed having a "nasty common name" ;).

Where as Harry, most of the time, just wanted to be normal; he didn't want to stand out or be different than everybody else.

And yet Harry did; he stood out. He wanted to be just normal all the time, but he got all the things Voldemort wanted and never had. Voldemort must have truly hated that IMO. :lol:

And yet Harry did; he stood out. He wanted to be just normal all the time, but he got all the things Voldemort wanted and never had. Voldemort must have truly hated that IMO. :lol:

Yes, Harry definitely did stand out. I agree; Voldemort would certainly have been very envious of Harry's renown. As if Voldemort really needed another reason to hate Harry :lol:.

Are we going to start the next 3 chapters tuesday?

Yeah the next 3 chapters will begin on tuesday(a week from when we started the book), but things are still a little bit open to change, if people think that the discussions are ending too quickly then we could shorten in a couple of days. But as of right now it will be tuesday on this thread.

This time reading through and looking at the way Harry was treated particularly by Petunia. I was struck by the fact that it must be the exact opposite of how Petunia must have grown up in relation to her sister.

Harry was raised in the same house as Dudley so in a way they were like brothers. Harry who was obviously magical was ignored in favor of ordinary normal Dudley who received all of Petunia's love and attention.

Where as when Petunia was growing up she was always in the shadow of her special magical sister Lily. Which leads me to wonder if part of the reason Petunia treated Harry and Dudley so differently stems from her wanting to give Dudley what she so desperately wanted growing up, to feel special, and to make Lily's son Harry feel how she herself must have felt growing up.

I remember when first reading HBP and DH how odd it felt that the first one or two chapters were not written from Harry's POV (point of view). I liked the chapters, but it seemed foreign and almost...wrong.

Rereading SS this week, I just realized that's how the series started. The first chapter is from several different POVs - Dumbledore, Vernon, Generic-Onlooker-From-Above. It was a pleasant surprise to appreciate that the series ended a bit like it began.

Also, I'd forgotten how much emphasis there was on Harry being told by the Dursleys not to ask questions. As the series goes on, starting in later chapters of SS, it's amazing how many times Harry should have asked or told an adult about something, but just never did. I guess we see the foundation for that in the Vanishing Glass.

I thought it was sweetly sad how Harry, at age 11, still tries to participate in family conversation, like telling them about his motorcycle dream, or asking about the vat of dyed clothes. He doesn't keep that up for much longer.

Yeah the next 3 chapters will begin on tuesday(a week from when we started the book), but things are still a little bit open to change, if people think that the discussions are ending too quickly then we could shorten in a couple of days. But as of right now it will be tuesday on this thread.

Aren't you going to start a new thread with each new set of chapters? That way folks could stay on with some chapter 1-3 points in this thread if they wanted. The new thread can be labeled for the book and chapter group being discussed. At the current pace, you'd have to change threads every 3 or 4 weeks, anyway.

I would rather see a new thread for the next book, and have all the PS/SS discussion in this one thread. JMHO

BTW, I have to add that I love having a place to discuss all the minutiae from each book. Thanks for doing this.

FGM

:blush: At 10 years I did not know even to make coffee or boil milk. I leant a bit when I was around 13/14, mainly coffee, tea and all that and cooked a few a things along with my sister for fun mostly when I 16/17. I really learnt to cook only after I got married. :rolleyes:

I think I saw Harry's plight not for the cooking actually, but that the Dursleys made it look demeaning. There is nothing worng in cooking for yourself and your family, but Harry was not asked to cook like that. He was asked to cook because he was made aware he was different from the rest of the family, especially Dudley. Same with the chores IMO. It was an issue of *do all this to earn your keep and do all this in return for all of us having to put up with you* was what bugged me.

At 10, I could not only cook, I could bake (from scratch). So I don't see a problem with Harry's having to cook breakfast.

I agree with you, the problem is the way Harry was treated when given the chore. It was done to make a distinction that Harry didn't belong and was not part of the family. They treated him like a servant, really. Gave him basic sustenance, but no affection or sensitivity to his feelings. And from what we can tell, Dudley never did any chores at all.

This time reading through and looking at the way Harry was treated particularly by Petunia. I was struck by the fact that it must be the exact opposite of how Petunia must have grown up in relation to her sister.

Harry was raised in the same house as Dudley so in a way they were like brothers. Harry who was obviously magical was ignored in favor of ordinary normal Dudley who received all of Petunia's love and attention.

Where as when Petunia was growing up she was always in the shadow of her special magical sister Lily. Which leads me to wonder if part of the reason Petunia treated Harry and Dudley so differently stems from her wanting to give Dudley what she so desperately wanted growing up, to feel special, and to make Lily's son Harry feel how she herself must have felt growing up.

Good point. It could very well be that Petunia felt like she was treated less well than Lily, and she does the same thing to Harry and Dudley (but much worse...)


I thought it was sweetly sad how Harry, at age 11, still tries to participate in family conversation, like telling them about his motorcycle dream, or asking about the vat of dyed clothes. He doesn't keep that up for much longer.

Yes, I thought that too. But I think that Harry tries to make the best of it. In The Vanishing Glass it says:

When he had been younger, Harry had dreamed and dreamed of some unknown relation coming to take him away, but it had never happened; the Dursleys were his only family.

He thought he had to live with them forever, so he had to try and cope with them?

Aren't you going to start a new thread with each new set of chapters? That way folks could stay on with some chapter 1-3 points in this thread if they wanted. The new thread can be labeled for the book and chapter group being discussed. At the current pace, you'd have to change threads every 3 or 4 weeks, anyway.

I think that that is a great idea. It would be much more organized and people who are behind can catch up and discuss about earlier chapters.

Can I just ask how could the letters know where was Harry's room/place at any given moment? I know it's magic or something like that but it's just bugging me.
_________________
Mr. H. Potter
The Cupboard under the Stairs
4 Privet Drive
Little Whinging
Surrey
_________________

How did they know he was in the cupboard under the stairs? And the hotel? Im just wondering, does anyone know? :)

I think the envelope has some kind of location magic on it; a locator charm or an address charm (if that's possible) and the address changes according to the location of the person whom it is supposed to reach. So when Harry was in the cupboard the letter was addressed as *The Cupboard Under the Stairs* and when he got the smallest bedroom it was addressed accordingly.

Yeah, I'm not sure how it was done either... Interesting question though. Must be complicated for JK Rowling to think of this stuff.

Yeah, for those of you who are wondering, I can't actually make new threads for every 3 chapters, it would take up to much space. While i would love to have a fresh start for the 3 chapters(and still be able to continue the discussion of these 3 chapters) I just don't think it will work out. I am going change either the title of the thread or the the original post of the thread(maybe even both), to fit the chapters we are currently discussing.

Now there is something i was wondering, do you guys like the 7 day span or do you want to shorten it a bit(say 5 days?)? To me I'm fine either way but i know i have read, taken notes, and discussed most of what i wanted to by the 3rd or 4th day. It's all up to you guys, let me know through this thread or send me an owl.:rockon:

I think for this book, only one thread is going to be fine. If we end up getting to GoF, that may required a thread for each half, or something along those lines. As for the time for each chapter, maybe we could just play it by ear? You could ask people to bring up anything they particularly want to discuss in the first five days, to make sure they get the chance to talk about anything they want to, but if we still have things to discuss after that, then we spend a couple more days doing so. Obviously it's up to you, though :).

Yeah, for those of you who are wondering, I can't actually make new threads for every 3 chapters, it would take up to much space. While i would love to have a fresh start for the 3 chapters(and still be able to continue the discussion of these 3 chapters) I just don't think it will work out. I am going change either the title of the thread or the the original post of the thread(maybe even both), to fit the chapters we are currently discussing.

Now there is something i was wondering, do you guys like the 7 day span or do you want to shorten it a bit(say 5 days?)? To me I'm fine either way but i know i have read, taken notes, and discussed most of what i wanted to by the 3rd or 4th day. It's all up to you guys, let me know through this thread or send me an owl.:rockon:

I like the 7 day span. If it doesn't look like 3 chapters is enough fodder for a week, maybe make it 4 chapters, especially with the first couple of books. Later on in the series you might have to back it off to two chapters a week.

Editing the first post of the thread when the next week of discussion starts sounds like a good compromise: "Chapters 4-6 discussion begins with post ###"

Editing the first post of the thread when the next week of discussion starts sounds like a good compromise: "Chapters 4-6 discussion begins with post ###"

And furthermore, even adding a link to that post where it starts too.

e.g. Start of Chapters ... here <---not an actual link ;) This means people can quickly go to the start of that discussion rather than having to comb through several or even many pages to find what they want. :)

Thanks for the suggestions, and i think for now we will keep it at 7 days but if things slow down than we might put it to 5 or 6. Or like PrivetHedge said, we could expand it to 4 chapters. But for now we will keep things how they are.

we havent started the new chapters have we?

we havent started the new chapters have we?

Not until Tuesday ;)

BenGerman, something that would be a lot easier is if you changed the thread title every week (which can be done by just editing your first, original post and you'll see the title and just edit that :)) telling everyone what the current chapters are. For example, this week it could be Read-a-Thon SS/PS (Chapters 1 - 3) or something like that. It would help stop confusion, and instantly, before clicking onto the thread, everyone will know what we're discussing. :)

Not until Tuesday ;)

BenGerman, something that would be a lot easier is if you changed the thread title every week (which can be done by just editing your first, original post and you'll see the title and just edit that :)) telling everyone what the current chapters are. For example, this week it could be Read-a-Thon SS/PS (Chapters 1 - 3) or something like that. It would help stop confusion, and instantly, before clicking onto the thread, everyone will know what we're discussing. :) Okay, thanks for answering my question!

Not until Tuesday ;)

BenGerman, something that would be a lot easier is if you changed the thread title every week (which can be done by just editing your first, original post and you'll see the title and just edit that :)) telling everyone what the current chapters are. For example, this week it could be Read-a-Thon SS/PS (Chapters 1 - 3) or something like that. It would help stop confusion, and instantly, before clicking onto the thread, everyone will know what we're discussing. :)

Yeah that's a great idea thanks:). I think I'm going to change it monday because i will be leaving that afternoon, so i just want people to know we won't be starting early, I'm just changing the name of the thread before i leave because I'm going on a cruise and they obviously don't go wireless:lol:. So unless i wanted to pay the Bajillion dollars to get the connection i won't be able to get on for a week, 9and3quarters already said he would help on on running the thread while I'm gone. I expect to have to read 10 pages worth of post when i get back so keep up the discussion while I'm gone!

Yes, I think JKR mentioned something about the Dursleys wanting to "squash the magic out of him" or something similiar to that effect. I believe it's in the second chapter somewhere.

I think that quote comes from one of the later books. Every time Vernon talks about it in PS/SS he talks about "stamping out" that (dangerous) nonsense.

I agree that the Dursleys were only giving Harry the bare minimum they could get away with, but Dumbledore later comments that Harry was less "abused" than Dudley. Presumably because excessive pampering is also a form of abuse in that it doesn't foster self reliance.

In Chapter one, Dumbledore tells Mcgonagal that the Dursleys home is "the best place for him." He comments that he'll be better off there because he won't be treated as anyone special.

Granted, they went to the other extreme, treating Harry almost like a servant, but that gave him a few practical skills, like cooking, gardening, and cleaning. It also gave him a yardstick by which to judge other people's characters. It also developed self reliance, because he was ignored a good bit of the time. On the other hand, their objection to question asking may have stiffled his natural curiosity to some extent, so that he rarely asks questions later when he gets to school.

I was wondering about the gold wrist watch that Dudley had recived for his birthday in Chapter 2. In later books Harry is seen with a gold wrist watch similar to Dudley's. Is the same one, if so, how did Harry recieve it? Also, if it was the same then why hadnt it ever gone haywire while on the Hogwarts groumds because of all the magic there?

I was wondering about the gold wrist watch that Dudley had recived for his birthday in Chapter 2. In later books Harry is seen with a gold wrist watch similar to Dudley's. Is the same one, if so, how did Harry recieve it? Also, if it was the same then why hadnt it ever gone haywire while on the Hogwarts groumds because of all the magic there?

Maybe the watch was similar to Dudley's but perhaps analogue? That is, it doesn't run on electricty.

I was wondering about the gold wrist watch that Dudley had recived for his birthday in Chapter 2. In later books Harry is seen with a gold wrist watch similar to Dudley's. Is the same one, if so, how did Harry recieve it? Also, if it was the same then why hadnt it ever gone haywire while on the Hogwarts groumds because of all the magic there?

The only wristwatch I can remember Harry having is the one the Mrs Weasley gave him for his 17th birthday. That used to belong to her brother.

The only wristwatch I can remember Harry having is the one the Mrs Weasley gave him for his 17th birthday. That used to belong to her brother. Harry had a watch in GOF because after the second task it didnt work and he hadnt taken it off because of habit of wearing it.

Harry had a watch in GOF because after the second task it didnt work and he hadnt taken it off because of habit of wearing it.

Really? I didn't even know he had a watch to begin with! I guess I must have missed that detail.

I think it's really funny how in the first chapter Mr. Dursley attempts to rationalize all the weird stuff that he's seeing. After he was hugged by a wizard he rushed back to his office to call his wife and tell her that people are talking about the Potters. He doesn't though which means that deep down in some twisted way he does really love and care about his wife.

If anyone actually found out about the way that the Dursley's treat Harry then they would loose their own son. It might be another reason why they desperately want to keep him a secret. However, they are lazy and don't want to go outside and do the chores there, so they send Harry. Therefore he would be seen. To keep up appearances they have to send him to school. It's illegal not to send a child to school. I think the only reason they send him is so they won't get in trouble with the law.

In Chapter one, Dumbledore tells Mcgonagal that the Dursleys home is "the best place for him." He comments that he'll be better off there because he won't be treated as anyone special.


Granted, they went to the other extreme, treating Harry almost like a servant, but that gave him a few practical skills, like cooking, gardening, and cleaning. It also gave him a yardstick by which to judge other people's characters. It also developed self reliance, because he was ignored a good bit of the time. On the other hand, their objection to question asking may have stiffled his natural curiosity to some extent, so that he rarely asks questions later when he gets to school.
By having Harry live with the Dursley's it not only gives him life skills which will be useful forever, but it gives him the protection that he needs. Hence why he has to return every summer for at least a while. I'd like to know what would happen if Harry didn't return to the Dursley's for one summer. But back to my point. Like you said Quickquill, it gave him a yardstick to measure people's characters by. Imagine if he didn't have one! He'd be friends with Draco Malfoy!

It is surprising how far Harry's aunt and uncle will go to ensure that the freakishness is not allowed in their house or around their little Duddykins; even he does not get all that he demands, and is kept out of the loop.

How much must it have hurt to say "no" to a boy who has no equal (in their minds) and to actually deny him something? It's all that freak's fault - as usual. Poor Harry, blamed for everything.

The only thing Vernon probably did right was driving them around, owls couldn't catch them that way, but the minute they settled for any length of time, here they came again and, of course, once the deadline was upon them, Hagrid showed up. :clap:

BTW - There is a joke in the US, that the very first fruitcake ever sent as a gift, is still making the rounds. :lol:

I know this is way beyond the book we're reading, but no one seems to believe he had a watch. "Whats the time?" Harry checked his watch, but uhen remembered it hadnt been working since it had spent over an hour in the lake. (chapter 27, pg 533,GOF) I know there are other mentions of it, but cant remember where.

Yeah that's a great idea thanks:). I think I'm going to change it monday because i will be leaving that afternoon, so i just want people to know we won't be starting early, I'm just changing the name of the thread before i leave because I'm going on a cruise and they obviously don't go wireless:lol:. So unless i wanted to pay the Bajillion dollars to get the connection i won't be able to get on for a week, 9and3quarters already said he would help on on running the thread while I'm gone. I expect to have to read 10 pages worth of post when i get back so keep up the discussion while I'm gone!

Yes, I will definitely keep it rolling. (tehe and i'm a she! :p)

As far as making the span shorter, I think some chapters will call for longer discussion and some can call for shorter spans HOWEVER I think we should keep it consistent unless people have a lot to talk about. For instance, for the jam packed super important chapters, we may need to extend it but we can play it by ear.

I'm so excited everyone is partipated and has so much insightful things to say :lol:

Ya. Like I don't think the first three chapters are going to have all that much to discuss. We seem to be making a lot of references to books further on.

As for the watch, I must have completely missed it. I guess it's a detail that you're like "ya-huh" but don't really register. It's not uncommon for people to have watches. I think that's why many people's brains have registered it as irrelevant information so we tend to forget about it.

Ya. Like I don't think the first three chapters are going to have all that much to discuss. We seem to be making a lot of references to books further on.

As for the watch, I must have completely missed it. I guess it's a detail that you're like "ya-huh" but don't really register. It's not uncommon for people to have watches. I think that's why many people's brains have registered it as irrelevant information so we tend to forget about it. That's perfectly fine, I just thought I throw it out there for proof.

I agree we should keep it to regular periods of time, so participants would know where to expect. Fit his leads to slow days towards the end of the week, I don't think it is a big deal. Especially as I imagine people will stop by randomly and make comments that would kep the thread on the front page, anyway.

You mean like people are now?

I agree. If we start new chapters on like Tuesday or whatever then people know that they have to have chapters read by then. If the analysis or conversation runs over oh well. It's all related anyway.

Yes, I will definitely keep it rolling. (tehe and i'm a she! :p)

As far as making the span shorter, I think some chapters will call for longer discussion and some can call for shorter spans HOWEVER I think we should keep it consistent unless people have a lot to talk about. For instance, for the jam packed super important chapters, we may need to extend it but we can play it by ear.

I'm so excited everyone is partipated and has so much insightful things to say :lol:

lol, my apologies 9and3 i shouldn't have assumed:lol:. And thanks again I'm grateful someone will be here to step in:rockon:. Hopefully you can forgive me 9and3 it was ridicules for me to assume:).

lol Ben, it's totally okay!

have fun ont he cruise and we'll keep it rolling here. I'm already writing some thought points for the next few chapters. I think changing the name of the thread for each trio of chapters is a good idea and it will entice others to join the discussion.

I was wondering about the gold wrist watch that Dudley had recived for his birthday in Chapter 2. In later books Harry is seen with a gold wrist watch similar to Dudley's. Is the same one, if so, how did Harry recieve it? Also, if it was the same then why hadnt it ever gone haywire while on the Hogwarts groumds because of all the magic there?

It probably was the same one. Dudley didn't take care of his posessions very well and tended to discard them when they broke or if they didn't interest him. Harry fixed an alarm clock after he moved into Dudley's spare bedroom, so I wouldn't put it past him to fix the watch too later on, after Dudley tired of it or broke it. The Dursleys certainly wouldn't have bought Harry a watch. If they actually gave him one, it would have been a hand-me-down from Dudley. Possibly the one he had before he got the gold watch in Chapter 2 (if he had one before that).

No doubt Harry's watch was mechanical. That's why it was able to work at Hogwarts.

lol Ben, it's totally okay!

have fun ont he cruise and we'll keep it rolling here. I'm already writing some thought points for the next few chapters. I think changing the name of the thread for each trio of chapters is a good idea and it will entice others to join the discussion.


I think putting the chapters that we're at in the title is a really good idea! It lets people know where we are so they can join in even if we're at like the last three chapters.

I just wanted to add in the very bizarre strangers Harry had seen before he got his letter: "man in violet top hat, wild-looking woman in all green, and a baldman in a purple coat." I think its funny how witches and wizards dress similar. It seems as though purple is a normal, especially among men as well. how many times do goes ever wear purple coats? :lol:

I just wanted to add in the very bizarre strangers Harry had seen before he got his letter: "man in violet top hat, wild-looking woman in all green, and a baldman in a purple coat." I think its funny how witches and wizards dress similar. It seems as though purple is a normal, especially among men as well. how many times do goes ever wear purple coats? :lol:

:lol: Yeah, they do seem to have an odd choice of colours don't they? :)

Hey everyone, I just wanted you to know that i updated the thread so for next week. I won't be here tomorrow so i had today, sorry for the confusion and the very long thread title:lol:. RAT stands for Read-A-Thon just just so you guys know...

Let's stay true to the spirit of this and make sure we're not going ahead and discussing until Tuesday too although Ben has changed the name :)

Oh wow, I could not figure out what this thread was when I saw the title :lol:

Hey everyone, I just wanted you to know that i updated the thread so for next week. I won't be here tomorrow...

You're leaving us? For some cruise?! Where are your priorities?

Trading a week of sitting hunched over a keyboard, ruining your eyesite staring at a monitor - for what?! Freestyle cruising? A week of leisure - with pools, spas, restaurants, discos, theatres, casinos, exotic ports-of-call, etc...?

Man! Just when you think you know a guy... :grumble:

You're leaving us? For some cruise?! Where are your priorities?

Trading a week of sitting hunched over a keyboard, ruining your eyesite staring at a monitor - for what?! Freestyle cruising? A week of leisure - with pools, spas, restaurants, discos, theatres, casinos, exotic ports-of-call, etc...?

Man! Just when you think you know a guy... :grumble: I know right, instead of being here with his fellow Harry Potter fans, he'd rather be pretending to be enjoying himself. What a traitor!

You're leaving us? For some cruise?! Where are your priorities?

Trading a week of sitting hunched over a keyboard, ruining your eyesite staring at a monitor - for what?! Freestyle cruising? A week of leisure - with pools, spas, restaurants, discos, theatres, casinos, exotic ports-of-call, etc...?

Man! Just when you think you know a guy... :grumble:

lol, i got a good laugh out of this one:lol:. Yeah sorry about the title change, but I was going to do it Tuesday but since I leave tomorrow I sort of had to do it today. But yeah is the thread title what you guys had in mind? If not i will be available for the next 30 minutes and can change it...

lol, i got a good laugh out of this one:lol:. Yeah sorry about the title change, but I was going to do it Tuesday but since I leave tomorrow I sort of had to do it today. But yeah is the thread title what you guys had in mind? If not i will be available for the next 30 minutes and can change it...

I would suggest just putting the chapter numbers. So this week it would be PS/SS Read-a-Thon: Chapters 4-6.

I agree with gipro; I don't think people really know which chapters correspond with which numbers, and it might be easier to go by numbers.

Ya that's what I'm thinknig. Put RAT the book name or short form of and the number of the chapters. I was like what? I don't remember subscribing to a thread with this title! It took me a few minutes to figure out what the thread was about.

Yes, please use chapter numbers.

Alright the changes have been made, I will see you all when i get back!

I'm getting really anxious, I think we spent too much time on this first two chapters! :grumble:

LOL actually it was the first three chaptesr. Feel free to read 4-6 if you're done and start posting comments!

LOL actually it was the first three chaptesr. Feel free to read 4-6 if you're done and start posting comments! Can we start, its midnight in other countries? I have lots to say on the newt chapter!

Can we start, its midnight in other countries? I have lots to say on the newt chapter!

I'm pretty sure we can. I think they said last week that whenever it hits midnight for you, start talking.

I know it may not be important now, but I was curious to know what the amber liquid Hagrid had drunk from his coat? I dont recall seeing an amber liquid later in the books. Also, what is mimblewimble and why would Vernon say it?

Firewhiskey? If it was the same color as Muggle whiskey, that would work.

We do know Hagrid likes to drink. :)

Also, what is mimblewimble and why would Vernon say it?
IMO it was just a gibberish word that Vernon muttered. :) I looked it up on Wikipedia and Dictionary.com and I couldn't find a definition of it. But 'Mimblewimble' is the incantation of a spell in the Dueling Club in the CoS game for PC. :lol: Wonder where they got it from...;)

IMO it was just a gibberish word that Vernon muttered. :) I looked it up on Wikipedia and Dictionary.com and I couldn't find a definition of it. But 'Mimblewimble' is the incantation of a spell in the Dueling Club in the CoS game for PC. :lol: Wonder where they got it from...;) :hmm: I figured it was some sort of spell, but in the game it never really does much. Its funny though that he'd say it of all people.

:hmm: I figured it was some sort of spell, but in the game it never really does much. Its funny though that he'd say it of all people.
I thought it was a spell, too, but I looked it up on Mugglenet and the Harry Potter encyclopedia as well, and all I could find was the CoS game spell. :shrug: Besides, if it was a spell, why would Vernon say it? He wanted to be as 'normal' as possible; he didn't want to have anything to do with the magical world.

yes, thats why I thought it odd that he'd say it. Perhaps the game makers threw it in for kicks.

yes, thats why I thought it odd that he'd say it. Perhaps the game makers threw it in for kicks.
:lol: Yeah, that's what I think, too. It's a pretty funny-sounding word, after all. It sounds like a silly incantation to me. :D

I cracked up a bit when Hagrid gave Harry his letter and it said, "Mr. H. Potter, The Floor, Hut-on-the-Rock, The Sea." :lol: It was just funny to read.

yes indeed! I love how they know exact location. By the way, how do they know that?

Maybe they have a wizarding form of a GPS or even satellite? ;) But that is a good question though. :)

IMO it was just a gibberish word that Vernon muttered. :) I looked it up on Wikipedia and Dictionary.com and I couldn't find a definition of it. But 'Mimblewimble' is the incantation of a spell in the Dueling Club in the CoS game for PC. :lol: Wonder where they got it from...;)

:hmm: I figured it was some sort of spell, but in the game it never really does much. Its funny though that he'd say it of all people.

I thought it was a spell, too, but I looked it up on Mugglenet and the Harry Potter encyclopedia as well, and all I could find was the CoS game spell. :shrug: Besides, if it was a spell, why would Vernon say it? He wanted to be as 'normal' as possible; he didn't want to have anything to do with the magical world.

Ahha! Maybe the real reason Vernon hated all things magical is because he is really just a very bitter squib. lol :lol:


yes indeed! I love how they know exact location. By the way, how do they know that?

Maybe the magic quill that records the births of all magical children also has the yearly task of automatically addressing the envelopes with the addresses of the children that have come of age to go to Hogwarts that year, and every time Harry changed locations the quill automatically wrote out a new envelope?

Or Dumbledore has Harry LoJacked. ;)

I haven't managed to either 1) read the chapters or 2) post anything about them yet but I thought I'd post these notes I wrote about them when I did a re-read of PS last (before DH came out)

1. ‘The sun shone brightly on a stack of cauldrons outside the nearest shop’
Possible foreshadowing that Snape (Potions master) is good?

2. ‘They went over an underground ravine and Harry leant over the side to try and see what was down at the dark bottom but Hagrid groaned and pulled him back by the scuff of the neck’What is down there? Will we find out? (We DID!)

3. ‘Scabbers the rat was hanging off [Goyle’s] finger…’
Why did Pettegrew want to hurt the Goyle? (The son of a Death Eather that hasn’t helped/sought Voldemort?)

I don't why Peter bit Goyle; it seems so unlike Peter to do something without a benefit to himself. Perhaps he was being a *good pet*.

-----------

Hagrid says he knew Harry wasn't getting his letters. I presume Dumbledore told him; how did Dumbeldore know that, to keep sending Harry letter after letter; was there a charm on the envelope that would tell Dumbeldore once Harry opened it? I think so that was why they were swamped with letters, but any other ideas?

I don't why Peter bit Goyle; it seems so unlike Peter to do something without a benefit to himself. Perhaps he was being a *good pet*.

Yeah, I think he was just a good pet. Since there was no relevation in DH, I think Peter just didn't want Goyle to steal his food:lol:

Yeah, I think he was just a good pet. Since there was no relevation in DH, I think Peter just didn't want Goyle to steal his food:lol:

:lol:

I think you are spot on!

It is really amazing that the twins never noticed that someone calle Peter Pettigrew was always with their brother in the 2 years they had the map with them.

Yes, since it was never explained, how did Hagrid know that Harry had never received his letter and how did they know he had been moved to the small bedroom, from the cupboard under the stairs? Then later, to the hut on the rock, in the ocean?

Also, when asked how he had arrived at the hut, Hagrid said he 'flew'. Now Hagrid can't use a broom, so how did he 'fly'?

I just want to say that I wish the movie had kept in the small talk between Ron and Harry on the train, I really enjoyed that. It was a nice intro into the wizarding world.

FGM

I loved the introduction to the Weasley family in chapter 6 - Platform 9 and Three Quarters. Harry gets to spy on their goodbyes and see the interactions between the siblings. Before that, the twins help Harry get his trunk on the train and into the compartment, not knowing that he's famous, not do they really seem to care (except to inform the rest of the family and probably Lee). They have always kind of treated him like a brother, even in the beginning. Ron and Ginny seem much more star-struck.

Since there was such a friendly meeting, I'm glad they all became friends (I don't include Percy, he never really seemed to relate to Harry the way the rest of the family did) and stayed friends their whole life, giving Harry the family he so dearly wanted.

In Diagon Alley, Ollivander was creepy and still is - even in DH.

I also loved the Weasleys part too. :) Mrs Weasley bothers me a bit with her first-ish couple of lines:

"Now which platform was it again?"
Now, she's had to go the train station for: the Twins (being the same age, so they count as one), Percy, Charlie, Bill and now Ron. Wouldn't she know very well by now that it's Platform 9 3/4? Or maybe JKR just had her say that for plot purposes, so Harry would not remain lost.

"...packed with muggles of course!"
I hope she wasn't saying that as loud as Julie Walters did in PS/SS movie. :p So either she did say it loudly or Harry was within earshot or Harry was close to them, or a combination.

I loved how Scabbers/Pettigrew bit Goyle. I think that's the only thing I like about him: he bit Goyle! :D Of course I read that bit, laughed for a bit, stopped, re-read and thought to myself: "Hang on! That's Pettigrew! He actually bit Goyle's finger for us!" :lol: I guess that'll remain the only thing we like about Pettigrew. ;)

Maybe she had spotten him and decided to give him a hint. He was just standing there having no clue what to do. And then she pretended not to know it was him. I love the "Im not Fred." I fell for the twins at that moment! :love:

Mrs Weasley ...

Now, she's had to go the train station for: the Twins (being the same age, so they count as one), Percy, Charlie, Bill and now Ron. Wouldn't she know very well by now that it's Platform 9 3/4? Or maybe JKR just had her say that for plot purposes, so Harry would not remain lost.


She asks that aloud in order to elicit participation from (and thereby educate) Ginny.

She asks that aloud in order to elicit participation from (and thereby educate) Ginny.


Yes, I am constantly asking my kids what that red octagonal sign next tot he road says, or what color light I am waiting for at a traffic light. And yet the state of Missouri keeps seeing fit to grant me a driver's license. :lol:

I think that's exactly what Molly was doing, giving Ginny a chance to 'help out' and participate.

just a few points while i have a few minutes at lunch..starting with 'the keeper of the keys' of course...

1. I'm confused exactly by Hagrid's title. He introduces himself as Keeper of the Keys BUT later he says he's groundskeeper. Now in America a grounds keeper is someone who maintains the appearance, upkeep, possibly a watching over sort of type. Does Hagrid do this? I thought Filch was more of a "keeper of the keys"...thoughts?

2. Honestly, how did the Dursley's NOT think this was coming? Did they just cross their fingers, wish, and hope that this day would not come? Obviously Petunia knew it was coming due to what she went through with her sister..why did she not reason with Vernon not to put them in a rock in the middle of the sea?

3. Also, when Petunia finally speaks she totally rips Lily apart. She says "Lily this and Lily that" (Marcia! Marcia! Marcia!) and even calls her a freak. To me, when I first read this I hated Petunia for not having the slightest bit of mothering instinct towards Harry. Furthermore, she does not even chose her words wisely when referring to the Potters. She says that they went and got themselves "blown up". How could she be so brash?

4. I also liked how after Hagrid had spoken about his and the wizarding worlds terror toward Voldemort (and his extreme dislike of speaking the name), Harry was already name dropping. He didn't finish the name, but he intended on saying it anyway. He was already defying Voldemort and what he stood for.

5. What's a dormice? Hagrid says that there may be some wiggling in his jacket but not to worry he's got some dormice in the pockets..

Yes, since it was never explained, how did Hagrid know that Harry had never received his letter and how did they know he had been moved to the small bedroom, from the cupboard under the stairs? Then later, to the hut on the rock, in the ocean?

Also, when asked how he had arrived at the hut, Hagrid said he 'flew'. Now Hagrid can't use a broom, so how did he 'fly'?

I just want to say that I wish the movie had kept in the small talk between Ron and Harry on the train, I really enjoyed that. It was a nice intro into the wizarding world.

FGM

Hagrid apparated perhaps? I'm sure he didn't want to take the time to explain about apparition at the time so maybe he simply said 'fly'. Just a thought but great question!

Those are some great questions.
To number two - Petunia, I assume, wasn't aware of the lengths they'd go to to contact Harry, because they didn't do those things with Lily. I assume that Lily received the first letter, and she had already been planning on attending, due to Snape telling her everything. I think Petunia was sort of hoping, despite knowing it probably wasn't true, that if they couldn't reach him with letters, they'd give up. Wishful thinking, I'd say.

I looked up dormice on Dictionary.com, and it said:
any small, furry-tailed, Old World rodent of the family Gliridae, resembling small squirrels in appearance and habits.
I don't know if that's what it's talking about, though.

1. I'm confused exactly by Hagrid's title. He introduces himself as Keeper of the Keys BUT later he says he's groundskeeper. Now in America a grounds keeper is someone who maintains the appearance, upkeep, possibly a watching over sort of type. Does Hagrid do this? I thought Filch was more of a "keeper of the keys"...thoughts?

2. Honestly, how did the Dursley's NOT think this was coming? Did they just cross their fingers, wish, and hope that this day would not come? Obviously Petunia knew it was coming due to what she went through with her sister..why did she not reason with Vernon not to put them in a rock in the middle of the sea?

3. Also, when Petunia finally speaks she totally rips Lily apart. She says "Lily this and Lily that" (Marcia! Marcia! Marcia!) and even calls her a freak. To me, when I first read this I hated Petunia for not having the slightest bit of mothering instinct towards Harry. Furthermore, she does not even chose her words wisely when referring to the Potters. She says that they went and got themselves "blown up". How could she be so brash?

5. What's a dormice? Hagrid says that there may be some wiggling in his jacket but not to worry he's got some dormice in the pockets..


1. The perpetual mystery. At times, he's referred to as keeper of the keys, groundskeeper, and gamekeeper. We never see him do any of those jobs (other than the suggestion in GoF that Hagrid will be responsible for growing the hedge maze to an enormous height).

2. Yes, they were in denial. They were hoping that completely mundane, grounded behavior and complete unwillingness to entertain any flights of fancy would blind him to the possibilities of magic.

3. Nine and three-quarters years of (partly) repressed emotions.

5. Dormouse can be a generic reference to any of a range of small rodents.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/dormouse

I seem to remember a dormouse in Alice In Wonderland. He was seen at the tea party with the Mad Hatter and the March Hare.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dormouse_(Alice's_Adventures_in_Wonderland)

Hmmm. He fell asleep everywhere. Kinda reminds me of Scabbers. And he spoke about treacle tarts. Hmmmm.

You know, it's been a long time since I read Lewis Carroll. I may have to stop by the library this week and pick something up.

She asks that aloud in order to elicit participation from (and thereby educate) Ginny.
Oh! Thanks for that, I would've never thought about it that way. :)

1. I'm confused exactly by Hagrid's title. He introduces himself as Keeper of the Keys BUT later he says he's groundskeeper. Now in America a grounds keeper is someone who maintains the appearance, upkeep, possibly a watching over sort of type. Does Hagrid do this? I thought Filch was more of a "keeper of the keys"...thoughts?
I think that Hagrids keeps up the grounds, and Filch is the caretaker for the interior of Hogwarts. But I do believe Filch has all of the keys...so why would Hagrid be called "the keeper of the keys"...? :hmm: I'm not sure. Perhaps there are two sets of keys, and both Hagrid and Filch have a set?

2. Honestly, how did the Dursley's NOT think this was coming? Did they just cross their fingers, wish, and hope that this day would not come? Obviously Petunia knew it was coming due to what she went through with her sister..why did she not reason with Vernon not to put them in a rock in the middle of the sea?
"Now, you listen here, boy," he snarled, "I accept there's something strange about you, probably nothing a good beating wouldn't have cured..."
I think that Vernon and Petunia were hoping that if they tried to make Harry live a 'normal' life then they could "squash the magic out of him." They probably knew deep down that the letter would come, but they covered it up by pretending that they were are 'normal.'

3. Also, when Petunia finally speaks she totally rips Lily apart. She says "Lily this and Lily that" (Marcia! Marcia! Marcia!) and even calls her a freak. To me, when I first read this I hated Petunia for not having the slightest bit of mothering instinct towards Harry. Furthermore, she does not even chose her words wisely when referring to the Potters. She says that they went and got themselves "blown up". How could she be so brash?
It's as simple as this: she was jealous of Lily. Petunia wanted to go to Hogwarts and learn magic and be part of a whole different world, too. If you've read DH, we see that in the Prince's Tale. But since she could't go to Hogwarts like her sister, she hardened herself against her and began to pretend to hate her until she really did. And all that she said in the hut on the rock, she had been bottling up for years and finally let it all out.

4. I also liked how after Hagrid had spoken about his and the wizarding worlds terror toward Voldemort (and his extreme dislike of speaking the name), Harry was already name dropping. He didn't finish the name, but he intended on saying it anyway. He was already defying Voldemort and what he stood for.
That's a good thought, but IMO he just said 'Voldemort' because he didn't grow up being taught to say 'You-Know-Who.' I don't think it was an act of defience; on the contrary I think Harry would have said only You-Know-Who if he could because he wanted to fit in in the wizarding world, but he couldn't stop himself now that he knew the name. He just didn't understand why it was so horrible to say it. But in later years it did grow to defience of LV, I think.

5. What's a dormice? Hagrid says that there may be some wiggling in his jacket but not to worry he's got some dormice in the pockets..
It's type of rodent. :)
any small, furry-tailed, Old World rodent of the family Gliridae, resembling small squirrels in appearance and habits.

And about Hagrid flying...is it possible to just fly by using your wand? :blush: That's how I'd always imagined it. The apparating idea sounds reasonable, too, though. I was also going to say that he he might've rode a Hippogriff or some other flying creature that lives in the Forbidden Forest and then just sent it back to Hogwarts when he got there, but I think he'd be too big to ride one...

And about Hagrid flying...is it possible to just fly by using your wand? :blush: That's how I'd always imagined it.

Actually, it is supposed to require a broom or other enchanted artifact to fly. With the exception of acidental/childhood magic (Harry possibly, when he ended up on a roof, and Lily, possibly, when she jumped off the swing) and Voldemort and Snape, who could do it with control as adults.

1. I'm confused exactly by Hagrid's title. He introduces himself as Keeper of the Keys BUT later he says he's groundskeeper. Now in America a grounds keeper is someone who maintains the appearance, upkeep, possibly a watching over sort of type. Does Hagrid do this? I thought Filch was more of a "keeper of the keys"...thoughts?


In American parlance, I think Filch is the head janitor, responsible for keeping the interior of the school clean and orderly. Hagrid has the keys ot the outer gate of the castle grounds, and keeps order in the outside part of the school, with emphasis, I would say, on the denizens of the Forbidden Forest.

I've always wondered about the 'keeper of the keys' job since we never see Hagrid with a huge ring of keys, nor does anyone ever come to him to unlock a door.

FGM

Re-reading ‘the keeper of keys’ was fantastic – I’d really forgotten just how good it is, but it may just be on my favourite list because everything about Hagrid reminds me of growing up in the west country. I only have 1 really question after reading it

How did the Dursley’s get home? They’re on a rock in the middle of the sea & Harry & Hagrid have taken the boat – they’re stranded right? Or have I missed something?:hmm:


Originally posted by: 9 ¾
What's a dormice? Hagrid says that there may be some wiggling in his jacket but not to worry he's got some dormice in the pockets..

The dormouse is a particular type of mouse (aka the edible dormouse – a roman delicacy! Yummy:scared:) Latin name Gilis gilis – it looks like a cross between a squirrel & a mouse. In size it is slightly larger than a common house mouse & has a reputation for sleepiness (whether this is justified or not I haven’t a clue). They are not as common as they used to be (they are becoming fairly rare:()
I always took the presence of one in Hagrid’s coat to be a sign that he’s good with / like animals & lives with the land. Also I always took it to be a reference to ‘Alice in Wonderland’ – another signal that - yes things are defiantly getting ‘odd’.

That's a very interesting question, Ive wondered that myself. Ive always assumed that Vernon had made a nasty call imploring about the boat. Or maybe it was sent by Hagrid magically back to the Hut.

I can't claim credit for this idea, but I read in another thread that when Harry left Hagrid, he took the train back to the small town nearest the island and must have taken the boat back to the Dursleys. It never said he went home, nor would the Dursleys ever have left Harry with a key of his own to the house, so he had to return home with them. This made sense to me, and isn't contradicted in canon, so this is what I believe.

FGM

thanks for all the input to my posts guys you rock! :lol:

Just re-read Diagon Alley: Just a few items:

1. I thought it was interesting that they stayed in the hut after all that drama. Granted, Hagrid did not want to venture out back in the storm with Harry but, awkward much?

2. A sentence I found of note (on page 61 of US version of SS) "The hut was full of sunlight, the storm was over.." I found this interesting because I think it related to Harry's tumultous life at the Dursley's coming to an end, saying that this part of his life was over. At the same time, I found it ironic because the storm is only beginning for him.

3. Hagrid's warning "never mess with goblins". Foreshadowing perhaps to what happens in DH?

4. I've seen this discussed several times but in the Hogwarts school list it states "Students may also bring an owl OR a cat OR a toad. Ron has a rat. This is not on the list. Is this because Percy has had scabbers at Hogwarts in years past and it was okay?

5. What is a hag? Dictionary.com states that it is an ugly old woman especially a vicious or malicious one. It also is defined as a witch or sorceress. It is a particularly ugly witch who seems to be drawn by the dark arts?

6. I liked the enscription at Gringots -- Thief, you have been warned, beware/Of finding more than treasure there. EXTREMELY interesting. The trio truly DOES find more than treasure there don't they?

7. You get your first taste of Draco! By the language JKR uses, it gives the reader the first glimpse into his personality.."bully, smuggle, bored,". He refers to Hagrid as a servant (so apparently he's used to ordering people to do his bidding). He also refers to Hagrid as savage.

8. From meeting Malfoy you get another great glimpse into Harry's personality. In reference to Hagrid, Harry replies "I think he's brilliant," said Harry coldly. Most children in his situation would have played along. Let's face it, Harry knows not one wizard his age and knows nothing of the wizarding world. He has everything to gain by befriending Draco but chooses not to. He defends Hagrid. Go Harry! :tu: I also loved loved loved how Harry went red in reference to Hagrid offering to buy him a birthday present.

1. I thought it was interesting that they stayed in the hut after all that drama. Granted, Hagrid did not want to venture out back in the storm with Harry but, awkward much?
I never thought about that. I agree, it is awkward. :lol: Hagrid had just given Dudley a pig's tail for goodness' sake!

2. A sentence I found of note (on page 61 of US version of SS) "The hut was full of sunlight, the storm was over.." I found this interesting because I think it related to Harry's tumultous life at the Dursley's coming to an end, saying that this part of his life was over. At the same time, I found it ironic because the storm is only beginning for him.
Very well-spotted symbolism. :tu: You're right, it is ironic, but Harry didn't know that times at Hogwarts would be so dangerous. So maybe it could be symbolism to how Harry felt -- that after the "storm" of living with the Dursleys, the "sunshine" of a new start to a new life would be much better than it was before.

3. Hagrid's warning "never mess with goblins". Foreshadowing perhaps to what happens in DH?
Interesting thought. :) I think it very well could be.

4. I've seen this discussed several times but in the Hogwarts school list it states "Students may also bring an owl OR a cat OR a toad. Ron has a rat. This is not on the list. Is this because Percy has had scabbers at Hogwarts in years past and it was okay?
:hmm: I also wonder about that every time I read SS/PS. The list states quite clearly that only owls, cats, and toads are acceptable. And yet Ron has a rat...why is this? Perhaps the Weasleys asked permission to bring Scabbers when Percy got him. :shrug:

5. What is a hag? Dictionary.com states that it is an ugly old woman especially a vicious or malicious one. It also is defined as a witch or sorceress. It is a particularly ugly witch who seems to be drawn by the dark arts?
It is my understanding that hags are not witches (and when I say witch I mean a magical person such as Hermione -- not the Halloween kind), but another kind of creature all together. I found this bit of info:
Hags, also called crones, are a savage sort of witch who employ archaic earth magic and are easily recognized by Muggles. They have been granted the status of Being by the Ministry of Magic, a decision that was part of the reason that the Centaurs and Merpeople chose to be classified as Beasts since they did not want to be associated with them.

Hags are often malevolent, and some have shapeshifting skills, or at least maintain the illusion of shapeshifting. Hags can be terrifying, apparently, since Quirinus Quirrell allegedly had "a nasty bit of business" with one during his time abroad.

Gilderoy Lockhart's book Holidays with Hags may or may not contain useful information about these beings.
Sorry, I kept in the part about Lockhart because I found it amusing. :D I also think it's funny that Centaurs and Merpeople chose to be classified as 'beasts' by the Ministry of Magic because they don't want to be associate with hags. :lol:

6. I liked the enscription at Gringots -- Thief, you have been warned, beware/Of finding more than treasure there. EXTREMELY interesting. The trio truly DOES find more than treasure there don't they?
Oooh, good point. :tu: The trio finds a Horcrux there..although that would be considered treasure by LV! :D Wait...you did mean the Horcrux...didn't you? :blush:

7. You get your first taste of Draco! By the language JKR uses, it gives the reader the first glimpse into his personality.."bully, smuggle, bored,". He refers to Hagrid as a servant (so apparently he's used to ordering people to do his bidding). He also refers to Hagrid as savage.
Yup, that's Draco all right. A snobby prat if I ever saw one. :p

8. From meeting Malfoy you get another great glimpse into Harry's personality. In reference to Hagrid, Harry replies "I think he's brilliant," said Harry coldly. Most children in his situation would have played along. Let's face it, Harry knows not one wizard his age and knows nothing of the wizarding world. He has everything to gain by befriending Draco but chooses not to. He defends Hagrid. Go Harry! :tu: I also loved loved loved how Harry went red in reference to Hagrid offering to buy him a birthday present.
I really like that too. :) Harry can tell already that Malfoy is someone that is not a good choice for a friend...but then, who couldn't? :p And I also liked how Harry blushed when Hagrid offered to buy him a present; it shows how unselfish and polite he is. He had never gotten a proper gift from the Dursleys, and he could've jumped at the oppertunity of getting one, but he didn't.

It is my understanding that hags are not witches (and when I say witch I mean a magical person such as Hermione -- not the Halloween kind), but another kind of creature all together. I found this bit of info:
Hags, also called crones, are a savage sort of witch who employ archaic earth magic and are easily recognized by Muggles. They have been granted the status of Being by the Ministry of Magic, a decision that was part of the reason that the Centaurs and Merpeople chose to be classified as Beasts since they did not want to be associated with them.

Hags are often malevolent, and some have shapeshifting skills, or at least maintain the illusion of shapeshifting. Hags can be terrifying, apparently, since Quirinus Quirrell allegedly had "a nasty bit of business" with one during his time abroad.

Gilderoy Lockhart's book Holidays with Hags may or may not contain useful information about these beings.
Sorry, I kept in the part about Lockhart because I found it amusing. :D I also think it's funny that Centaurs and Merpeople chose to be classified as 'beasts' by the Ministry of Magic because they don't want to be associate with hags. :lol:


Oooh, good point. :tu: The trio finds a Horcrux there..although that would be considered treasure by LV! :D Wait...you did mean the Horcrux...didn't you? :blush:

Thanks GrangerHermione! The info about the hags was great!

And yes, I was speaking about the Horcrux :tu:

Yes, I'm glad you kept the piece in about Gilderoy. Not my favorite character so any time anyone pokes fun at him, I'm all about it.:p

That's very interesting HAG info, I dont even think Fantastic Beasts give that much info.

Since everyone seems to like the hag info so much, I found more :D:
In Harry Potter, Hags remain true to their origins in folklore and have the appearance of unkempt and wild-looking witches. Unlike most witches, however, they have a preference for eating children, although they will accept raw meat as a substitute.
Don't sound too friendly, do they? :eeep: Eating children...*shudders*

Ahrrrr! The hags sound pretty evil :lol:

let's keep this going guys!

I was humbled by the fact that although he has gone through so much with the Dursley's treating him like dirt, he was still depressed that they were treating him as if he were invisible --
"--in fact, they didn't speak to him at all. Half terrified, half furious, they acted as though any chair with Harry in it were empty. Although this was an improvement in many ways, it did become a bit depressing after a while"

To me, we get another glimpse into the heart/soul of Harry. He still somehow has managed to have respect/want for the Dursleys to at least awknowledge his existance. I think he truly yearned for acceptance. Acceptance he didn't get from the Dursleys, his schoolmates, or the Neighbors.

Originally posted by: 9 ¾
A sentence I found of note (on page 61 of US version of SS) "The hut was full of sunlight, the storm was over.." I found this interesting because I think it related to Harry's tumultous life at the Dursley's coming to an end, saying that this part of his life was over. At the same time, I found it ironic because the storm is only beginning for him.

:tu:Very true – I felt that in the whole of the chapter Hagrid is used as a metaphor and a sign of things to come
His arrival is bizarre as he must be to the Dursleys, but the first thing he does is ask for a cup of tea – a very ordinary thing to do. Also tea is the cure for all ills in England (had an argument with you best friend – have a cup of tea, pet died – have a cup of tea, aliens abducted the Queen – have a cup of tea!:lol:) interesting when you consider that Hagrids arrival is the cure for all Harry’s ills.
Next he starts a fire in the grate & cooks food – the effects of both mirror the long term effect on Harry of the news he is soon to receive (You’re a wizard Harry) they warm & nourish him & changing completely the room they are in.

I have sometimes wondered if this giant, on occasions represents Harry’s emotions. I certainly feel that he is able to express the shock, horror & outrage at Harry’s situation that he never could.

The use of the word muggle here seems different to me. In the rest of the book it seems an innocuous word, almost like a pet name. but when Hagrid is saying things like ‘and a great muggle like yourself…’ and his reaction when Harry asks him what it means I got the impression that its not an entirely nice word; I guess in the same way Squib isn’t really a nice thing to be called.

Originally posted by: 9 ¾
Hagrid's warning "never mess with goblins". Foreshadowing perhaps to what happens in DH?

Personally I thought the whole of that paragraph / section was a clue bonanza! :wow: I was gob smacked when I read it again – kept thinking ‘how did I miss this?’

The Set book list! I don’t remember noticing it was so funny the first time I read it (actually it’s probably more accurate to say its the names of all the authors mentioned in HP) - sometimes I imagine JKR bent over her computer just giggling as she writes them. :lol:

The use of the word muggle here seems different to me. In the rest of the book it seems an innocuous word, almost like a pet name. but when Hagrid is saying things like ‘and a great muggle like yourself…’ and his reaction when Harry asks him what it means I got the impression that its not an entirely nice word; I guess in the same way Squib isn’t really a nice thing to be called.

The Set book list! I don’t remember noticing it was so funny the first time I read it (actually it’s probably more accurate to say its the names of all the authors mentioned in HP) - sometimes I imagine JKR bent over her computer just giggling as she writes them. :lol:

I agree completely about the word muggle being negative. I don't think it's as extreme in the here in now as using a specific awful slur we can all think of but the way that muggles are talked about sometimes is less than favorable. Well except if you're Mr. Weasley :rolleyes:

On your second point Kittling I was so excited to see the first mention of Bathilda! It was your first introduction to a book that Harry and Ron never read :lol:

Will reading SS I'm reading the Ultimate Unofficial Guide of the Mysteries of Harry Potter for background reading. It mention that the births of wizard children are recorded by a magical quill in a master book, according to one of Rowling's interviews. Is this how they keep track of underage magic? Does the name perhaps glow red?

More interestingly Xhanax how does this book detect if this was magic by a child wizard that could not help themselves?

In GoF, I'm not sure who said it but it was brought up that many times wizard children perform magic underage but nothing is done about it because they cannot detect who did the magic if it is an entire magical family under one roof. Is this why it was so easy to detect when harry used the patronus charm? when dobby arrived unexpectedly? when Harry blew up aunt marge?

why wasn't anything done when harry set the snake upon dudley accidentally?

Moreover xhanax, is there someone watching the book at all times waiting for an underage wizard or witch to perform illegal magic?

More interestingly Xhanax how does this book detect if this was magic by a child wizard that could not help themselves?

In GoF, I'm not sure who said it but it was brought up that many times wizard children perform magic underage but nothing is done about it because they cannot detect who did the magic if it is an entire magical family under one roof. Is this why it was so easy to detect when harry used the patronus charm? when dobby arrived unexpectedly? when Harry blew up aunt marge?

why wasn't anything done when harry set the snake upon dudley accidentally?


The trace isn't effective until the wizard/witch reaches age 11, when they formally begin their magical training. Old enough to know better by then, and expected to follow the rules. So anything a magical child does before they begin school/training doesn't count as breaking the rule, and Harry's episode at the Zoo with the glass/snake didn't count.

The trace isn't effective until the wizard/witch reaches age 11, when they formally begin their magical training. Old enough to know better by then, and expected to follow the rules. So anything a magical child does before they begin school/training doesn't count as breaking the rule, and Harry's episode at the Zoo with the glass/snake didn't count. Thanks for clearing that up.

The trace isn't effective until the wizard/witch reaches age 11, when they formally begin their magical training. Old enough to know better by then, and expected to follow the rules. So anything a magical child does before they begin school/training doesn't count as breaking the rule, and Harry's episode at the Zoo with the glass/snake didn't count.

Hermione, who has been 11 since the previous September, mentions on the train, that all the spells she has tried have worked, and where she is a muggle-born, no one else in her home could have been doing it. Perhaps the Trace doesn't begin until September first for all 11 yr olds.

FGM

that was my take on it - it would hardly be fair to expect someone to control thier magic before they've had any instruction i n how to do it!

Hermione, who has been 11 since the previous September, mentions on the train, that all the spells she has tried have worked, and where she is a muggle-born, no one else in her home could have been doing it. Perhaps the Trace doesn't begin until September first for all 11 yr olds.

FGM

That makes the most sense to me. It's unfair to penalise a child just because they were born earlier than others. I think that the Trace would begin on the 1st September, to be fairer and to have a definite starting point. But then again - completely contradicting what I just said - it is unfair on those born later in the school year, because they'll have to wait until they are 17 to use magic without the Trace. For example, Hermione would then have a shorter time having the Trace than Harry...

Is the trace on the wand or the magic performed? I thought it was on the magic performed. That was why in Harry's second year Dobby casts a Hover charm that got Harry into trouble. Because in that area there were no other magical people apart from Harry.

While in the Weasley household for example, Ron could escape punishment if he did magic, because there were adults too, in that household who could have done that.

Is this right or wrong? :)

i think you're right Greenwoods because it's anyones guess who could have done that.

the MoM knows that no one else in the Durlsey household is magical so automatically any magic performed under that house is Harry so it HAS to be a trace on magic performed not on the wand.

Is the trace on the wand or the magic performed? I thought it was on the magic performed. That was why in Harry's second year Dobby casts a Hover charm that got Harry into trouble. Because in that area there were no other magical people apart from Harry.

While in the Weasley household for example, Ron could escape punishment if he did magic, because there were adults too, in that household who could have done that.

Is this right or wrong? :)

Right, I believe. A bit unfair on the Muggle-borns, but that seems to be how it works. :) The Hover charm is a good example. I think it has been said in the series, but I can't remember where.

Yes, the Muggle-born would never gotten away with the magic performed if the caster diapperated, like Dobby. That's also what happen to Morpin when he was accused and brainwashed of killing Riddle Sr.

Yes, the Muggle-born would never gotten away with the magic performed if the caster diapperated, like Dobby. That's also what happen to Morpin when he was accused and brainwashed of killing Riddle Sr., and of Hokey the house elf

Hermione, who has been 11 since the previous September, mentions on the train, that all the spells she has tried have worked, and where she is a muggle-born, no one else in her home could have been doing it. Perhaps the Trace doesn't begin until September first for all 11 yr olds.

FGM
Yes, it seems to start with training in magic. That's why the school gives the underage students reminders not to do any magic when they go home.

Hello all! :wave: I'm just going to jump in here. I have been keeping up with the thread but unfortunately got a bit of a late start on my reading. Just a couple of observations with the latest chapters.

In the chapter Diagon Alley, I've always thought it was odd when Draco is telling Harry - "... and mother's up the street looking at wands."
For all the talk of the wand choosing the wizard, what good would it do for her to look at them? Or are some more expensive and the Malfoy's wouldn't sink to just getting a 'common' one?

This I found a bit funny. :lol: In chapter six we do see that Harry actually did read a bit of A History of Magic because he says he found Hedwig's name in the book. He even said his books were interesting and he read them into the night. Funny how that was so short lived. Guess his real life became much more interesting. :lol:

That's it for now, gotta run and hopefully I'll have time to comment on the other posts later.

In the chapter Diagon Alley, I've always thought it was odd when Draco is telling Harry - "... and mother's up the street looking at wands."
For all the talk of the wand choosing the wizard, what good would it do for her to look at them? Or are some more expensive and the Malfoy's wouldn't sink to just getting a 'common' one?

Well, there wasn't only Ollivanders, there were other wand shops, and maybe Narcissa was just having a browse at prices and the quality of the wands in each shop.

This I found a bit funny. :lol: In chapter six we do see that Harry actually did read a bit of A History of Magic because he says he found Hedwig's name in the book. He even said his books were interesting and he read them into the night. Funny how that was so short lived. Guess his real life became much more interesting. :lol:

When did it ever say he hadn't read A History of Magic? :hmm: It has been said that he hasn't read Hogwarts: A History, but I can't remember anything about A History Of Magic...

I think Harry read the text books to bed just because he was immersing himself into this new world. There was so much to learn and reading these text books also gave him more understanding about the wizarding world in general, so he didn't look like a complete idiot. :)

Well, there wasn't only Ollivanders, there were other wand shops, and maybe Narcissa was just having a browse at prices and the quality of the wands in each shop.

Well, yeah there were others I know, but I didn't really think that there were a lot in Diagon Alley. Just in the other countries. Still, I think it's odd, if the wand chooses, you would think it still wouldn't help to browse a whole lot.



When did it ever say he hadn't read A History of Magic? :hmm: It has been said that he hasn't read Hogwarts: A History, but I can't remember anything about A History Of Magic...


Yeah, your are right. I saw History and my thoughts went to that other well quoted book. That's what I get for being too eager. :whistle:



I think Harry read the text books to bed just because he was immersing himself into this new world. There was so much to learn and reading these text books also gave him more understanding about the wizarding world in general, so he didn't look like a complete idiot. :)


Well, yes, I think so too, I just think it's funny how quickly the book aspect left him (until of course he got the Prince's book). Typical kid I guess...

Speaking of Diagon Alley, I was wondering how the Leaky Cauldron became so famous. Was it because its the portal between the two worlds? Also, I was curious to know why Tom, the barman, looks like a "toothless walnut"?

3. Nine and three-quarters years of (partly) repressed emotions.

I just found this funny. Nine and three-quarters. Interesting number. Wonder if that had anything to do with the platform.



Ok, I took lots of notes on these three chapters, and I am going to admit that I didn't read all of the pages on these chapters (but I did skim them though, so I hope I won't be too repetitive).

The Keeper of the Keys
First thing I noticed here was how rude Hagrid was right off the bat. One of hte first things he says is, "Budge up, yeh great lump." He calls Vernon a great prune and tells him to shut up, says Dudley doesn't need fattening, tells them to go boil their heads.
In this chapter we see the first time that Harry is told that he has his mother's eyes. Starts off early.
I also noticed just how large Hagrid's coat seems to be. I know he is big, but the coat really seems bottomless. I made a list of everything they mentioned: kettle, sausages, a poker, a teapot, mugs, a live owl, a quill, parchment, dormice, moldy dog biscuits, keys, slug pellets, balls of sring, peppermint humbugs, teabags, coins. I mean, geeze, that's alot of stuff.
Hagrid said two phrases that I wasn't quite sure of: gallopin' Gorgons and gulpin gargoyles. I understand the second one, but not the first. And I thought it was weird that they all start with g's.
We also get our first mention of the Imperius Curse (though not by name). Hagrid talks about how Voldemort's followers come out of "kinda trances."
He also calls Voldemort a sorcerer. We never really hear that term used again. A mess up?
We also see Hagrid's loyalty to Dumbledore right away.


Diagon Alley

Did we every find out what that canary-yellow circuis tent-looking thing was?
Harry mentions that he couldn't help trusting him. I thought that was interesting wording. Is Hagrid just that trustworthy or is something else going on here?
Dedalus Diggle is mentioned alot in the first 6 chapters. He is talked about as probbaly setting off fireworks, bows to Harry in a shop, and shakes his hand in the Leaky Cauldron. A lot of appearences for someone we rarely see again.
We see Quirrell for the first time in the Leaky Cauldron, and he shakes Harry's hand. He must not be Quirrelmort yet, but he is still very nervous, probably because he knows what his master would think if he knew that Harry was there.
Why is it that Harry enters Madame Malkin's after Malfoy and then leaves before him? Doesn't make any sense to me.
How does Hagrid know that Quidditch is like soccer? Do all wizards know about soccer?
Yet another mention of Harry's eyes-this time by Ollivander.


The Journey from Platform Nine and Three-Quarters

I know the Dursleys are mean, but did they really just leave Harry at King's Cross, knowing that there was no platform 9 3/4? I mean, if there really was no train, then how would he get home? I know they don't care about him, but people would start asking questions if he suddenly disappeared.
Mrs. Weasley tells Harry that he shouldn't be scared you'll crash into the barrier, and that this was very important. What would happen if you were scared that you were going to crash into it? Would it close itself to you?
I love meeting the twins. I think I counted four of the most-quoted Fred and George quotes in the whole series are within the first chapter they are mentioned. Makes you fall in love with them right away.
I'm sure this has been discussed before, but why does Ron have a rat? Clearly, it is important because of Wormtail and such, but the letter clearly states a Cat OR a Toad OR an Owl. No mention of rats.
I don't find it to be much like Molly to forget that Ron doesn't like roast beef. I mean, it is alot to remmeber with seven children, but I think that Molly would be able to handle it.
I was wondering if it were possible that Draco's dad told him to try to make friends with Harry, in case it was possible that the theory that he was a dark lord was true.


Wow. That turned out a bit longer then I expected. I like these chapters.

Hagrid said two phrases that I wasn't quite sure of: gallopin' Gorgons and gulpin gargoyles. I understand the second one, but not the first. And I thought it was weird that they all start with g's.

From Greek mythology, a Gorgon is a female monster, capable of petrifying a person with a glance.

He also calls Voldemort a sorcerer. We never really hear that term used again. A mess up?

This word is in the title of the US edition of the book. Which edition are you reading?

Why is it that Harry enters Madame Malkin's after Malfoy and then leaves before him? Doesn't make any sense to me.

It could be Draco is going to make additional purchases (robes for home wear, he is a Pureblood), or is waiting for a parent.

I don't find it to be much like Molly to forget that Ron doesn't like roast beef. I mean, it is alot to remmeber with seven children, but I think that Molly would be able to handle it.

It's an excuse (I think - I am a mother). It is not reasonable for Molly to be expected to prepare 5 different sandwiches for the liking of 5 different individuals on every occasion. Ron has to lump it. :D

I know the Dursleys are mean, but did they really just leave Harry at King's Cross, knowing that there was no platform 9 3/4? I mean, if there really was no train, then how would he get home? I know they don't care about him, but people would start asking questions if he suddenly disappeared.

It's worse than that - Petunia must have known how to get on the platform – we know she’s done it before when she saw Lily off to school. But she still doesn't tell Harry :no:

Is it me or is the bit where Harry’s on the train watching the Weasley family being all happy joking & caring really sad? I love it when Mrs Weasley says ‘he’s not something you goggle at in a zoo’ it’s a lovely reversal of the vanishing glass where he feels like something you goggle at in a zoo!

I never noticed – after promising to look after Ron, the first thing they do is to tel him they’re going to look a massive spider, which is Ron’s biggest fear! Just goes to show there’s no such thing as a perfect family ;)

I also like Harry’s assessment that the Weasley’s are ‘one of those old wizarding families’ Darco had mentioned. So right & so wrong all at once.

The speak about LV being in Slytherin, but I though that LV being Tom Riddle was not common knowledge, so how did they know? Have I missed something? :hmm:

Also Ron’s dirty nose; Molly tries to clean it, but fails – then no-one mentions it except Hermione. The way Ron & Hermione interact (mainly in the later books - admittedly) is IMO similar to Molly & Arthur. I can’t help thinking that the whole dirty nose thing is actually the first mini-clue that they’re destine to be together. I just don’t see Ron making the ‘What ever house I’m in I hope she’s not in it.’ if JKR hadn’t been looking forward to the day they finally got together.

It's worse than that - Petunia must have known how to get on the platform – we know she’s done it before when she saw Lily off to school. But she still doesn't tell Harry :no:


The speak about LV being in Slytherin, but I though that LV being Tom Riddle was not common knowledge, so how did they know? Have I missed something? :hmm:



Petunia at least knew there was a platform 9 3/4, though she didn't tell Harry - she left him to find out on his own, which he was able to do.

Perhaps some of the elder wizards knew about Tom Riddle, even if the kids didn't - perhaps Arthur, and Lucius must have known.

FGM

In chapter six, at the very least, i think that Hermione is as bad as Draco. Both of them are bullies in their own way, and both of them definatly have a nasty streak within them. I don't even want to think of what Hermione would have become if she hadn't made friends with Ron and Harry.

I don't think Hermione changed much between the train, and the middle of the book. Ron and Harry simply got to know her better, so got to know more than her "know-it-all" outer persona.

If we think about what she is doing, it is not all bad. I don't doubt she felt sympathy for Neville for having lost his toad, for example.

Okay, i'm still an idiot when it comes to quoting various sections so I'm going to wing it. If anyone can teach me the easiest way to do it, send me an owl. :grumble:

Anywho...In reference to some of sllagnire's comments..

**yes, indeed 9 and 3/4 is an interesting number. hence the name :)
**I, too, noticed that Hagrid was rude right off the cuff. In Hagrid's defense, I'm sure he knew what kind of treatment harry was receiving all his life (he was wearing Dudley's clothes, forced to sleep in the floor, never had a birthday) I'm sure DD kept him up to speed on these matters because Hagrid's nature would be to ask.
**I think Hagrid's coat is like Mary Poppin's bag. I'm sure it has magical qualities that we do not know about allowing it to store many random and large things. Mary Poppins pulled out a lamp for cryin' out loud!
**I would imagine that some wizards know a good bit about the muggle world. I'm sure that Mr. Weasley isn't the only one who is intruiged/somewhat versed on the muggle world. I think that wizards may know more about muggles than the other way around
**I don't think it was done purposely that Molly made Ron dry corned beef sandwiches when he does not like this. Like you said, you've got 7 kids, you make do with what you've got.
**Excellent point about Draco seeking Harry out to try to befriend. Didn't put that together, I just figured Draco is the type that he would want to be friends with people who are as powerful as possible so he can ride their coattails.

Great post sllagnire!

The Journey from Platform Nine and Three-Quarters

I know the Dursleys are mean, but did they really just leave Harry at King's Cross, knowing that there was no platform 9 3/4? I mean, if there really was no train, then how would he get home? I know they don't care about him, but people would start asking questions if he suddenly disappeared.

Mrs. Weasley tells Harry that he shouldn't be scared you'll crash into the barrier, and that this was very important. What would happen if you were scared that you were going to crash into it? Would it close itself to you?


Wow. That turned out a bit longer then I expected. I like these chapters.
wondered about that, too, perhaps they planned to come back later, having taken Dudley for his tail-removal, to pick up a humiliated Harry. Considering Petunia actually did know of the existence of 9 3/4, it makes it even worse.

I wonder if this has something to do with the barriers' magical protection against Muggles. After all, Petunia and Mr and Mrs Evans were on the magical side of the barrier so Muggles must be able to get through. I mean, it must be only possible to get through if you believe you can/expect to be able to get through the solid barrier.

I don't think Hermione changed much between the train, and the middle of the book. Ron and Harry simply got to know her better, so got to know more than her "know-it-all" outer persona.

If we think about what she is doing, it is not all bad. I don't doubt she felt sympathy for Neville for having lost his toad, for example.
i wasn't talking about between 'now' and Halloween :). I'm talking about how she is now (forcing Neville to go around looking for it, and taking it upon herself to look after him, even if he didn't want her to - a first-year, self-appointed prefect), and not being able to imagine what would have happened to her if she hadn't made friends - absorbing herself in all those books, learning all that knowledge, but not sharing it with anybody.

In chapter six, at the very least, i think that Hermione is as bad as Draco. Both of them are bullies in their own way, and both of them definatly have a nasty streak within them. I don't even want to think of what Hermione would have become if she hadn't made friends with Ron and Harry.

OK maybe I'm being kinda dense but I don't understand where your coming from here - can you explain what you mean? :)

Both of them are bullies who force their opinions down your throat and don't let you have much of a chance to fight back. Plus, they're both really smug about their opinions. That's why Ron and Harry disliked Hermione from the moment they saw her - otherwise, i think that they would have tried to get her on their side, and use her cleaverness for their own benifit.