Read-a-Thon: OotP Chapters 22

I don't think the issue was entirely cowardice or lack thereof. We see Quirrell without the turban on the day the bank vault is robbed - so Quirrell did this without being possessed. It seems he was to some degree willing to cooperate with Voldemort. Voldemort later decided to possess him for the greater control this would sometimes give him, but whatever motive Quirrell had initially to cooperate with Voldmeort, may still have been in place.


Thanks for your perspective! Okay, so basically youre saying that Quirrell made a deal with the devil basically to help Voldemort. When maybe Quirrell decided he was in too deep or Voldemort was worried he might run for help, Voldemort posessed him. Is that what you're saying?

I had totally forgot about Quirrell not having his turban on the day of the attempted robbery at Gringots.

I don't think the issue was entirely cowardice or lack thereof. We see Quirrell without the turban on the day the bank vault is robbed - so Quirrell did this without being possessed. It seems he was to some degree willing to cooperate with Voldemort. Voldemort later decided to possess him for the greater control this would sometimes give him, but whatever motive Quirrell had initially to cooperate with Voldmeort, may still have been in place.

As well as control, it seems to me, he wanted to ensure Quirrell didn't mess up again, as he had at Gringotts. Perhaps after this, he didn't think Quirrell competent enough to keep up appearances and procure the Stone.

Not just a cursed life, but a half life. Quirrell's natural lifespan was cut in half from the unicorn blood, and it was also shortened by possession by Voldemort, who had been controlling/possessing him since Quirrell ran into him during his youthful travels. So the unicorn blood was to keep Quirrell alive so Voldemort could stay in possession.


That reminds me, Voldemorts' life was cut short too, he would only have been in his early seventies at the time of his death, while it seems wizards can live to over 100, (Dumbledore, Auntie Muriel, the witch who examined Dumbledore at NEWT level).

Thanks for your perspective! Okay, so basically youre saying that Quirrell made a deal with the devil basically to help Voldemort. When maybe Quirrell decided he was in too deep or Voldemort was worried he might run for help, Voldemort posessed him. Is that what you're saying?

Yes. And whatever that deal was, Quirrell may have expected he would still get it in the end. After all, Voldemort would not need to possess him after he got the Stone, and he may not have known that he was likely to die as a result of the possession.

After all, Voldemort would not need to possess him after he got the Stone, and he may not have known that he was likely to die as a result of the possession.

But if that was the case how would Voldermort have explained the whole drinking unicorns blood thing?

Yes, I've wondered about the drinking unicorn's blood thing as well. At the beginning of GoF, LV states that he's been drinking a mixture of unicorn blood and Nagini's venom to enable himself to have a rudimentary body (he was able to hold a wand there, as he AK'd Frank Bryce with it). Someone here stated that the unicorn's blood was for Quirrel, not for LV, but that wasn't the way I had understood it. I thought that this was his (LV) means of survival in a physical form. Quirrel had to consume it because LV didn't have a body of his own at this time. Did the curse from drinking it go on Quirrel or LV?

I hadn't remembered that Quirrel didn't wear a turban in Diagon Alley, but he was able to shake Harry's hand there, where he couldn't in the chamber with the mirror, without getting burned. Yet I thought that I had remembered that he'd been possessed since they got together in Albania. Or is possession a different thing than inhabiting Quirrel's body?

FGM

I hadn't remembered that Quirrel didn't wear a turban in Diagon Alley, but he was able to shake Harry's hand there, where he couldn't in the chamber with the mirror, without getting burned. Yet I thought that I had remembered that he'd been possessed since they got together in Albania. Or is possession a different thing than inhabiting Quirrel's body?

FGM

I think Quirrell had been working for Voldemort, but not possessed, since they met in Albania, but it seems Voldemort had only been sharing his body since after the failed robbery at Gringotts. That means Quirrell could shake hands with Harry without either of them being affected.

I was wondering about the time that Quirrel had come across Voldemort. At the time Voldemort was hiding in the Albanian forest, according to Dumbledore's resources, and Quirrel had been on a quest for vampires right, or something? So how had Quirrel wander upon him, Voldemort was a vapor-ghost right? So was he just floating about, or was he hiding in the hollow with the horcrux?



I do hope I worded this right, and I hope I haven't jumped too far ahead.......

I think Quirrell had been working for Voldemort, but not possessed, since they met in Albania, but it seems Voldemort had only been sharing his body since after the failed robbery at Gringotts. That means Quirrell could shake hands with Harry without either of them being affected.

Quirrell had been working for Voldemort at this point but was not possessed yet. Voldemort possessed Quirrell after he failed to steal the Sorcerer's Stone out of Gringotts. I think the "Man With Two Faces" chapter, Quirrell says that Voldemort did this to keep a closer eye on him.

Now if Voldemort HAD possessed Quirrell when he first met Harry, the pain Harry felt would've been the same as he later feels during the opening feast.

I was wondering about the time that Quirrel had come across Voldemort. At the time Voldemort was hiding in the Albanian forest, according to Dumbledore's resources, and Quirrel had been on a quest for vampires right, or something? So how had Quirrel wander upon him, Voldemort was a vapor-ghost right? So was he just floating about, or was he hiding in the hollow with the horcrux?
One must piece together information from SS and GoF:
"Brilliant mind. He [Quirrel] was fine while he was studyin' outta books but then he took a year off ter get some firsthand experience... They say he met vampires in the Black Forest, and there was a nasty bit o' trouble with a hag - never been the same since. Scared of the students, scared of his own subject -"
The stories about meeting vampires and hags were obviously spread by Quirrel to cover up his change in personality (his constant stuttering, so as to avoid detection). However, Quirrel did stumble upon some Dark presence in a forest - Voldemort. However, Voldemort was not hiding in one of his Horcruxes (especially since none were in Albania). He merely existed without form, without power, only as a mangled spirit:
"Only one power remained to me. I could possess the bodies of others....I sometimes inhabited animals - snakes, of course, being my preference - but I was little better off inside them than as pure spirit, for their bodies were ill adapted to perform magic..."
"Then...four years ago...the means for my return seemed assured. A wizard - young, foolish, and gullible - wandered across my path in the forest I had made my home [in Albania]. Oh, he seemed the very chance I had been dreaming of...for he was a teacher at Dumbledore's school...he was easy to bend to my will...he brought me back to this country, and after a while, I took possession of his body, to supervise him closely as he carried out my orders."

Youre right, the horcrux was moved by Riddle before LV had risen. Thanks for reminding me about that, mrsleepyhead.

Hey guys, sorry I haven't been here in a while just because of exams and stuff:grumble:. But yes, I have lived through them, so here I am. Anyways, sorry 9and3, I forgot to get on and change it but I have now incase anyone hadn't noticed already.

As to Quirrel and Voldemort, I still don't understand how, if Quirrel/Voldemort drank the Unicorn's blood, they ever died? I thought that if you drank it, you lived an immortal life, but it was more of a half-life type thing. Can anyone explain this to me?

Also I would like to add, seeing that as we are closing in on the end of the book, I was thinking we would just read the next two chapters next week. That would be the close of the book I believe with the next and last chapters being "Through the Trap Door" and "The Man With Two Faces". These are obviously important chapters so I think two will be fine for next week, unless any of you object. Also I was thinking about maybe taking the week after we finish reading SS off, just to discuss the book as a whole and how it links to CoS. Tell me what you think....

I think we should finish PS/SS off and not start in on CoS, but I don't think we need an extra week for the book as a whole. We've been discussing that a litle already, and I think it will fit in with the chapter discussion.

Yeah that sounds good to me:). I think it will be good to take a break from the reading, and just discuss SS in a way we never really have before.

As to Quirrel and Voldemort, I still don't understand how, if Quirrel/Voldemort drank the Unicorn's blood, they ever died? I thought that if you drank it, you lived an immortal life, but it was more of a half-life type thing. Can anyone explain this to me?
I believe you are thinking as if unicorn blood is more like the Elixir of Life. Here is what Firenze tells Harry:
"Only one who has nothing to lose, and everything to gain, would commit such a crime. The blood of a unicorn will keep you alive, even if you are an inch from death, but at a terrible price. You have slain something pure and defenseless to save yourself and you will have but a half-life, a cursed life, from the moment the blood touches your lips."
"[Death's better] unless all you need is to stay alive long enough to drink something else."
One swig of unicorn blood will not make the drinker immortal - it only allows the drinker to escape death temporarily, but the life that ensues from that will be "but a half-life, a cursed life." However, my assumption is that one must continually drink unicorn's blood to stay alive, otherwise (just like the Sorcerer's Stone, if not taken regularly) one can die. Also, Quirrel was drinking the blood for Voldemort, so it is possible that Voldemort directed the effects only to himself, not Quirrel (this second part is pure speculation, of course).
Also I would like to add, seeing that as we are closing in on the end of the book, I was thinking we would just read the next two chapters next week. That would be the close of the book I believe with the next and last chapters being "Through the Trap Door" and "The Man With Two Faces". These are obviously important chapters so I think two will be fine for next week, unless any of you object. Also I was thinking about maybe taking the week after we finish reading SS off, just to discuss the book as a whole and how it links to CoS. Tell me what you think....
I agree with zgirnius. An entire week devoted to the entire book is not wholly necessary, since the discussion of the final chapters will most likely cover discussion of the entire book.

Yeah, I think that a whole week might be stretching it. A day or two might be helpful to let those who need to catch up on the next three chapters, that way we can discuss PS as a whole.

Ok thanks MrSleepy. Yeah I really had gotten it confused, but I guess it's just because there is so much to discuss I got them mixed up:p. But now it makes sense, I should have known that Jo never would have made that sort of mistake...

I don't think we need a whole week to discuss the finish of PS/SS, before moving on to CoS. We have already been referring to the other books when discussing the current chapters, I think a whole week would be redundant. Just my 2 Knuts. :D

Yeah I agree with you guys(xhana, BublGum) the only thing is it will throw off our schedule which isn't a big deal, but it just messes things up a little bit. I don't know well worry about it when it comes:p.

I am personally FOR the whole week because some of us have work, school, children.....and having a whole week to discuss gives those of us with other things to do a chance to get in on the conversation when we have time.

Maybe the solution is that if you don't want the whole week to discuss then only spend 2-3 days on the forum talking about it and then get back on the next week when we start COS.

I'll let it slide this time Ben ;)

I think we should wrap up the last 2 chapters and use this week to discuss the 2 chapters and the book as a whole from Tuesday 5/6 to Tuesday 5/13. I"m not sure that an extra week is effective with the first novel.

I understand that everyone has stuff to do in their lives, work, children, school, sports..etc but I think we should not lose too much time when we can be starting CoS! :)

Ughh you guys are making this difficult:lol:. Were gonna have to do some sort of vote or something, I don't really know what else to do, I'll keep the brain churning though, I'm sure we can find some sort of compromise.

Anyways back to SS... Does anyone know know if the cloaked figure that gave Hagrid the egg was Quirrel or Voldemort? This is probably a stupid question, but it seems as if Quirrel had been it, then Hagrid would have recognized him in some way. But wasn't Voldemort just some sort of soul at this point? Not really a body? I can't exactly remember when the transaction took place, but still I can't figure out any other reason other than Hagrid must have been completely drunk, that he wouldn't have recognized Quirrel.

He did not see the stranger, right? So if Quirrell dropped his p-p-p-poor st-t-ut-t-t-t-er-r-ing Quirrell act, it might work....

He did not see the stranger, right? So if Quirrell dropped his p-p-p-poor st-t-ut-t-t-t-er-r-ing Quirrell act, it might work....
That's right, because i think it said somewhere that the "stranger" kept his hood up all the time, so that Hagrid couldn't see his face.

He did not see the stranger, right? So if Quirrell dropped his p-p-p-poor st-t-ut-t-t-t-er-r-ing Quirrell act, it might work....
Quite true. The narrator says:
Quirrel laughed, and it wasn't his usual quivering treble, either, but cold and sharp.
Thus, although Hagrid had heard Quirrell speak "normally" before, that was two years ago. He had gotten used to Quirrell's "quivering treble," so he would not have associated the cold, sharp voice to be Quirrell's, especially when Hagrid merely assumed he was a dragon trader. Hagrid says, "he wouldn' take his cloak off...I never saw his face, he kept his hood up." This person had to be Quirrell, since Voldemort was still bodiless and possessing Quirrell (he began the possession after Quirrell's failed robbery at Gringotts).

I agree that it had to be Quirrell, but maybe LV did the talking, so Quirrell couldn't mess things up.

FGM

Quite true. The narrator says:
Quirrel laughed, and it wasn't his usual quivering treble, either, but cold and sharp.
Thus, although Hagrid had heard Quirrell speak "normally" before, that was two years ago. He had gotten used to Quirrell's "quivering treble," so he would not have associated the cold, sharp voice to be Quirrell's, especially when Hagrid merely assumed he was a dragon trader. Hagrid says, "he wouldn' take his cloak off...I never saw his face, he kept his hood up." This person had to be Quirrell, since Voldemort was still bodiless and possessing Quirrell (he began the possession after Quirrell's failed robbery at Gringotts).

Thanks again, MrSleepyHead/zgirnius I don't know what I would do without you on this thread:lol:. I guess I just figured that Hagrid would recognize the voice, because I do know that when I hear voices that I heard previously in my life I recognize them in some way. But I guess the fact that he was Drunk and the "stranger" gave him what he always wanted, he didn't second guess it.

Thanks again, I seem to just forget about these things fairly fast.

::life lesson alert::

i find it interesting that hagrid does something quite stupid while drunk. he got a loose tongue like many people i know when they are drunk and it could have destroyed many imporant things. I think this is directly related to real life; alcohol can destroy so many things and I think Jo was trying to portray this simple fact.

But I guess the fact that he was Drunk and the "stranger" gave him what he always wanted, he didn't second guess it.
Yes, Hagrid's drunkenness certainly had an impact as well. Hagrid seems to lose all sense of rational thought when he is drunk, so he would not have noticed anything odd about Quirrell's voice. In fact, Quirrell could probably have gotten Hagrid drunk and then took off his cloak and Hagrid would be none the wiser. ;) (hyperbolically, of course).
i find it interesting that hagrid does something quite stupid while drunk. he got a loose tongue like many people i know when they are drunk and it could have destroyed many imporant things. I think this is directly related to real life; alcohol can destroy so many things and I think Jo was trying to portray this simple fact.
I agree. She demonstrates the horridness of alcohol abuse through Hagrid and Trelawney, and it is difficult to miss the message.

On to Chapters 16 & 17:

Bit of a carryover from previous chapters. Interesting how even Fred & George shunned them for losing all those house points. Not quite out of character, perhaps, just an extreme that we don't really see again.

Ron winning the giant chess match has to be one of my favorite scenes in the entire series.

Funny you should mention the points - if they hadn't lost 150 points for being up late, they would have been pretty close to start with. I think that DD didn't want them to be discouraged for their exploration and sense of adventure, so he awarded the trio plus Neville a total of 170 points. I feel the points that MacGonagal took off was too harsh at 50 points each. Hell, all they did was stay up late.

FGM

Yeah, it was a bit harsh, but it was "only" fifty points, total, until Harry interrupted McGonagall to complain about fifty points. It was then she announced fifty points each. I don't think she would have done that otherwise, Harry interrupting probably gave her the impression "these kids don't appreciate how much trouble they're in if they're questioning me now, so fifty points each".

On to Chapters 16 & 17:

Bit of a carryover from previous chapters. Interesting how even Fred & George shunned them for losing all those house points. Not quite out of character, perhaps, just an extreme that we don't really see again.

Ron winning the giant chess match has to be one of my favorite scenes in the entire series.


I agree. I think it truly shows how Ron is NOT the coward/idiot that the movies sometimes portray him to be. He IS intellegent, strong, and a fierce friend to Harry and Hermione. I read that entire section like..YESSS GO RON!

I loved how they also played off of Hermione's strengths as well with Snape's potion logic riddle. I could appreciate it because I am not a logical thinker and I know Harry would have probably struggled with it without her.

Dumbledore says in Chapter 17, that Snape had been attempting to save Harry because he was in James' debt. Didnt Snape save Harry because of his love for Lily? Had Dumbledore been making a fiblet here?

Dumbledore says in Chapter 17, that Snape had been attempting to save Harry because he was in James' debt. Didnt Snape save Harry because of his love for Lily? Had Dumbledore been making a fiblet here?

The truth, from a certain point of view... No, wait. That's Ben Kenobi's line.

Harry asks Dumbledore if it was true, what Quirrell had said about Snape and James hating each other.

As we discovered later, Dumbledore had promised Snape he would keep his secret as to why he turned against Voldemort, became a teacher, and protected Harry. That secret being Snape's love for Lily, of course.

I think Dumbledore's answer to Harry was mild misdirection to a different area of the truth.

Dumbledore wanted to give Harry some sort of explanation (better than "He's a teacher, it's his job to protect you", anyway). I think he also wanted to make some step at starting to build a positive relationship between Harry and Snape, as Harry might need Snape's help in the future. I think he also wanted to testify to Snape having a good character in some respect, no matter what Snape wished. Is is reasonable to say that James may actually saved Severus' life from Sirius' malevolent prank and that Severus was thus in James' debt. Since Severus' relationship with James was not subject to their agreement, Dumbledore had no compunction about telling that story.

Thus, although Hagrid had heard Quirrell speak "normally" before, that was two years ago. He had gotten used to Quirrell's "quivering treble,"

Now I also got the impression that Quirrell had been a teacher for a few years before going off on the so called adventure. It also seems to be implied that he had been the defence teacher for a few years... But how is that possible??? What about the curse on the defense job? Or was it only after Harry got to Hogwarts that the curse kicked in and they started going through defense teachers? :hmm:

In one of Jo's post DH interviews/discussions - she said Quirrell had been the Muggle Studies professor. I think it was the public appearances in October.

Chapter 16: Through the Trapdoor

Was the hooded figure dripping blood in Harry's dream Voldemort? Why was Voldy bleeding?
Well, given the fact that just about all of HBP was about Voldemort's past (part of History of Magic). I'd say History of Magic turned out to be kind of important in the end.
Voldy got Hagrid plastered! LOL! That's so funny to me!!
LOL@the books tumbling out of McGonagall's arms. I can't believe she was so surprised the trio found out about the SS. I mean, hello? Surely she's dealt with the Weasley twins before!
This chapter is just full of funny. Also LOL@Ron impersonating Hermione.
Well, Harry was a little bit right about Voldy turning Hogwarts into a school for Dark Arts, huh?
LOL@Ron to Neville "Yeah, but not to us!" Aw, I love Neville!
I love how Harry impersonated the Bloody Baron to get rid of Peeves. Genius! I don't remember in DH, was there ever any part where the ghosts and Hogwarts protected it against Voldemort during the battle? Like, fought or something? All Return of the King on their a-words?
"ARE YOU A WITCH OR NOT?"
I heard somewhere that some people believe the obstacles to get the Socerer's Stone were put in place so the trio could get by them. The flying key and a Seeker? Chess and Ron? Logic puzzle and Hermione? Hm, coincidence?
Why did they cut out Snape's part of the obstacles in the movie?! Oh, I can't wait for a BBC miniseries of HP like they did with Pride & Prejudice!


Chapter 17: The Man with Two Faces

So, it's Quirrell who has the gift with trolls, or Voldemort?
I guess Voldy knew Harry was lying because of the whole mind-reading thing. (I can't even to pronounce or spell that "Leg.." word.
"You diddo the thing properly didn't you?" LOL! Oh, Dumbledore. That's mostly because of Hermione and her constant need to research before the acts.
If Voldy couldn't touch Harry (through Quirrell), why did he try to possess Harry in OOTP? What an idiot! Or did he try? Maybe I'm wrong.
Did we ever find out exactly how James saved Snape's life. No doubt he did it because Snape was Lilly's friend, but still?
Dumbledore was Ron's hero? What?
I answered my own question! Harry though DD wanted to give him a chance against Voldemort and made the obstacles with him in mind.
Aw, Hagrid! Making Harry the album. What a sweetheart!


In one of Jo's post DH interviews/discussions - she said Quirrell had been the Muggle Studies professor. I think it was the public appearances in October.

How do you go from being the Muggle Studies teacher to traveling to Albania to chase effing Vampires?! What's what he did, right? How does that even make sense?

But, then again, Dumbledore taught Transfiguration and he would have been amazing at teaching DADA. So, hm, maybe a hobby or something?

If Voldy couldn't touch Harry (through Quirrell), why did he try to possess Harry in OOTP? What an idiot! Or did he try? Maybe I'm wrong.

The whole point of using Harry's blood in the GoF resurrection ceremony was supposed to be that Voldemort could thereafter harm/touch Harry. The difficulty posessing Harry in OotP was due to a different cuase, no longer to the "blood protection" from Lily's sacrifice.

Did we ever find out exactly how James saved Snape's life. No doubt he did it because Snape was Lilly's friend, but still?

I though the PoA description was reasonably detailed - Snape got close enough to Lupin to see him, James pulled him out of there.
At any rate, I do wonder why you think this had to so with Lily beihg Snape's friend? It seems at least as likely to me that this was about wanting to aviod trouble for Sirius and Lupin which a dead or bitten Severus would cause.

How do you go from being the Muggle Studies teacher to traveling to Albania to chase effing Vampires?! What's what he did, right? How does that even make sense?

The explanation that makes sense to me is that he took Muggle Studies not because it was his passion, but because he needed a job, and he took the sabbatical year to gain experience so he could get the DADA job.

I though the PoA description was reasonably detailed - Snape got close enough to Lupin to see him, James pulled him out of there.
At any rate, I do wonder why you think this had to so with Lily beihg Snape's friend? It seems at least as likely to me that this was about wanting to aviod trouble for Sirius and Lupin which a dead or bitten Severus would cause.

Ah, ok! I thought that the way James saved his life was mentioned, but I couldn't remember what happened. In that case you are exactly right, it would probably be more because James didn't want trouble for Lupin. But, I really don't remember that whole thing. I'll have to pay special attention when we start PoA. It's been years since I read that one.

I heard somewhere that some people believe the obstacles to get the Socerer's Stone were put in place so the trio could get by them. The flying key and a Seeker? Chess and Ron? Logic puzzle and Hermione? Hm, coincidence?
Just because Harry believes that that's what happened doesn't mean that it's actually true. There's this very convincing essay that i'll post a link to that explains what the real deal was with the trio's first year. It also deals with Quirrill role in the whole matter.

And it's even more strange, from what we know of Dumbledore from Book 7, that he could even be bothered to take responsibility of the stone in the first place. Wonder what Flammel did to persuade him? Or whether he actually set up the whole thing, and Dumbledore just took credit for it.

Here's the link: http://www.redhen-publications.com/QuirrellDebacle.html

If Voldy couldn't touch Harry (through Quirrell), why did he try to possess Harry in OOTP? What an idiot! Or did he try? Maybe I'm wrong.
The reason that he got rejected from Harry's head in Year 5 was because Harry was full of emotion at just having lost the closest person to a father he had.

Did we ever find out exactly how James saved Snape's life. No doubt he did it because Snape was Lilly's friend, but still?
I thought that it was because of the werewolf incident, and Sirius' cruel prank on Snape.

[QUOTE=leveauian_witch;5017469]Chapter 16: Through the Trapdoor
[LIST]
Was the hooded figure dripping blood in Harry's dream Voldemort? Why was Voldy bleeding?

Harry had seen Quirrellmort dripping unicorn blood when he had drunk it and looked right at Harry, I'm thinking this is the figure Harry was seeing in his dreams.


Well, Harry was a little bit right about Voldy turning Hogwarts into a school for Dark Arts, huh?

Wow, cool foreshadowing. :tu:

So, it's Quirrell who has the gift with trolls, or Voldemort?

I reckon Quirrell, as Dumbledore had to have known that the troll was his contribution to protecting the stone. Plus, he boasted to Harry about his gift with trolls in "The Man With Two Faces", I don't think Voldemort would let Quirrell claim credit for his skills.

Im curious to know about Voldemort while he was in Quirrells care. Voldemort mentions somewhere in PS/SS that he was mere shadow and vapor. If he was, how would Quirrell gotten his orders. Also, when had he become the infant-thing we encounter in GOF?

Harry had seen Quirrellmort dripping unicorn blood when he had drunk it and looked right at Harry, I'm thinking this is the figure Harry was seeing in his dreams.

OH! I was thinking "dripping blood" like hurt or injured. GOT IT!

Im curious to know about Voldemort while he was in Quirrells care. Voldemort mentions somewhere in PS/SS that he was mere shadow and vapor. If he was, how would Quirrell gotten his orders. Also, when had he become the infant-thing we encounter in GOF?

I don't have any canon to support this but I think it was wormtail who helped him become babymort. He fed him venom from Nagini and unicorn blood, and this enabled him to have a more mortal form. He was in this form at the house in Little Hangleton, where he killed Frank Bryce with an AK from his wand. Before this he was unable to hold a wand.

FGM

All this talk about "BabyMort" gave me a thought...

Could baby Voldemort from GoF, be the same thing as the baby we see in Kings Cross? I just thought of this, probably not the first though. Will we cover this more when we get to it in GoF, so you don't have to answer me now, but just something to think about....

Now I also got the impression that Quirrell had been a teacher for a few years before going off on the so called adventure. It also seems to be implied that he had been the defence teacher for a few years... But how is that possible??? What about the curse on the defense job? Or was it only after Harry got to Hogwarts that the curse kicked in and they started going through defense teachers? :hmm:

In one of Jo's post DH interviews/discussions - she said Quirrell had been the Muggle Studies professor. I think it was the public appearances in October.


Oh I didn't know that thanks.

What, not that I'm questioning her authority on the subject but then why would Hagrid have told Harry that Quirrel was: Scarred of the students, scarred of his own subject" What subject muggle studies? It just doesn't seem to add up.

Moving on to the last two chapters -

I have a couple of questions here

1. How did Quirrel die? DD states that LV left him to die, but what did he die from? Burns on his hands and face?

2. What did Quirrel do to Harry? Harry was holding him off when he lost consciousness, and DD arrived. DD said that the effort almost killed Harry?! How does that work?

FGM

Moving on to the last two chapters -

I have a couple of questions here

1. How did Quirrel die? DD states that LV left him to die, but what did he die from? Burns on his hands and face?

2. What did Quirrel do to Harry? Harry was holding him off when he lost consciousness, and DD arrived. DD said that the effort almost killed Harry?! How does that work?

FGM


A lot of my friends who saw the first movie but did not read the book had that same question for me- how did Quirrell die? Why was his face/hand burning? I think based on my interpretation of what JKR wrote, Harry was still protected by his mother's sacrifice. Consequently, Voldemort/Quirrell still couldn't touch him. When he tried, he ended up being in pain which the movie showed as "burns." It's not the most straightforward explanation- my family and friends thought it was a bit "weak" but that's the best I could come up with. Hopefully, some of the other posters will have more insight.

A different question I've had for a long time- which, again, my nonreading friends quizzed me about- is how did the stone end up in Harry's pocket?
I understand that Dumbledore used the mirror of erised to show a person who really wanted to find the stone where it was i.e. Harry as opposed to someone whose deepest desire is to just use the stone i.e. Voldemort; but it was never clear to me how the stone just suddenly materialized in Harry's pocket. Did Dumbledore charm the stone so it would just show up in the pocket of whomever was most desperate to find it once they looked at the mirror?

Ok, if Id put it in my own words, itd be funky, so heres from the Ultimate Unofficial Guide to the mysteries of HP, page 66: 1. One sees in the Mirror exactly what ones heart desires. If they seek the Stone for elixir, they dont see how to obtain the Stone, but see themselves drinling elixir from it. 2. If they seek the Stone for another person, again, they dont see how to obtain the Stone, they see rewards from their master. 3. However, if they are only looking to obtain the Stone itself, with no other purpose except to have it in their hand, then they see the Stone, and they obtain it.

Moving on to the last two chapters -

I have a couple of questions here

1. How did Quirrel die? DD states that LV left him to die, but what did he die from? Burns on his hands and face?

FGM
Here is the scene:
"Yes, sir. Well, Voldemort's going to try other ways of coming back, isn't he? I mean, he hasn't gone, has he?"

"No, Harry, he has not. He is still out there somewhere, perhaps looking for another body to share... not being truly alive, he cannot be killed. He left Quirrell to die; he shows just as little mercy to his followers as his enemies. Nevertheless, Harry, while you may only have delayed his return to power, it will merely take someone else who is prepared to fight what seems a losing battle next time -- and if he is delayed again, and again, why, he may never return to power."

Harry nodded, but stopped quickly, because it made his head hurt. Then he said, "Sir, there are some other things I'd like to know, if you can tell me... things I want to know the truth about...."

"The truth." Dumbledore sighed. "It is a beautiful and terrible thing, and should therefore be treated with great caution. However, I shall answer your questions unless I have a very good reason not to, in which case I beg you'll forgive me. I shall not, of course, lie."

"Well... Voldemort said that he only killed my mother because she tried to stop him from killing me. But why would he want to kill me in the first place?"

Dumbledore sighed very deeply this time.

"Alas, the first thing you ask me, I cannot tell you. Not today. Not now. You will know, one day... put it from your mind for now, Harry. When you are older... I know you hate to hear this... when you are ready, you will know."

And Harry knew it would be no good to argue.

"But why couldn't Quirrell touch me?"

"Your mother died to save you. If there is one thing Voldemort cannot understand, it is love. He didn't realize that love as powerful as your mother's for you leaves its own mark. Not a scar, no visible sign... to have been loved so deeply, even though the person who loved us is gone, will give us some protection forever. It is in your very skin. Quirrell, full of hatred, greed, and ambition, sharing his soul with Voldemort, could not touch you for this reason. It was agony to touch a person marked by something so good."
1. Voldemort said that possessing creatures weakened them. He could only occupy their bodies for a short time. He was talking about snakes, rats, etc, but maybe this could be applied to Quirrell. I always had the impression that Quirrell's body was so weakened from both the possession and the "touch" thing, that when Voldemort left Quirrell, it killed him. That could be why Dumbledore said that Voldemort showed little mercy for his followers.

Harry sprang toward the flame door, but Voldemort screamed "SEIZE HIM!" and the next second, Harry felt Quirrell's hand close on his wrist. At once, a needle-sharp pain seared across Harry's scar; his head felt as though it was about to split in two; he yelled, struggling with all his might, and to his surprise, Quirrell let go of him. The pain in his head lessened -- he looked around wildly to see where Quirrell had gone, and saw him hunched in pain, looking at his fingers -- they were blistering before his eyes.

"Seize him! SEIZE HIM!" shrieked Voldemort again, and Quirrell lunged, knocking Harry clean off his feet' landing on top of him, both hands around Harry's neck -- Harry's scar was almost blinding him with pain, yet he could see Quirrell howling in agony.

"Master, I cannot hold him -- my hands -- my hands!"

And Quirrell, though pinning Harry to the ground with his knees, let go of his neck and stared, bewildered, at his own palms -- Harry could see they looked burned, raw, red, and shiny.

"Then kill him, fool, and be done!" screeched Voldemort.

Quirrell raised his hand to perform a deadly curse, but Harry, by instinct, reached up and grabbed Quirrell's face --

"AAAARGH!"

Quirrell rolled off him, his face blistering, too, and then Harry knew: Quirrell couldn't touch his bare skin, not without suffering terrible pain -- his only chance was to keep hold of Quirrell, keep him in enough pain to stop him from doing a curse.

Harry jumped to his feet, caught Quirrell by the arm, and hung on as tight as he could. Quirrell screamed and tried to throw Harry off -- the pain in Harry's head was building -- he couldn't see -- he could only hear Quirrell's terrible shrieks and Voldemort's yells of, "KILL HIM! KILL HIM!" and other voices, maybe in Harry's own head, crying, "Harry! Harry!"

He felt Quirrell's arm wrenched from his grasp, knew all was lost, and fell into blackness, down ... down... down...
2. What did Quirrel do to Harry? Harry was holding him off when he lost consciousness, and DD arrived. DD said that the effort almost killed Harry?! How does that work?

2. Harry was suffering from the pain in his scar that he always got when he was in contact with Voldemort. Quirrell was trying to do a deadly curse on Harry. I think that Dumbledore arrived in time to stop Quirrell from doing the curse. Harry, in my opinion, was passing out from the pain in his scar. I am not sure if Harry would have died just from the pain in his scar. JKR said that the pain in the scar was the soulpiece trying to return to its owner, Voldemort. I wonder if that would have killed Harry?

Just because Harry believes that that's what happened doesn't mean that it's actually true. There's this very convincing essay that i'll post a link to that explains what the real deal was with the trio's first year. It also deals with Quirrill role in the whole matter.

And it's even more strange, from what we know of Dumbledore from Book 7, that he could even be bothered to take responsibility of the stone in the first place. Wonder what Flammel did to persuade him? Or whether he actually set up the whole thing, and Dumbledore just took credit for it.

Here's the link: http://www.redhen-publications.com/QuirrellDebacle.html


The reason that he got rejected from Harry's head in Year 5 was because Harry was full of emotion at just having lost the closest person to a father he had.


I thought that it was because of the werewolf incident, and Sirius' cruel prank on Snape.
Because everybody seems to have ignored the points that i have brought up in my post, i hope it's okay if i post it again.

jammi, that was an amazing article - I'm glad you reposted it, since I missed it the first time.

We didn't know about DD's machinations that early in the series, so we let things go and didn't discuss them here. We are like Harry was, young and convinced he knew what was going on, when he had barely scratched the surface. Perhaps we as adults can be forgiven since we only saw the world through Harry's eyes. The article was very provocative, in examining DD's motivations, and was analyzed very thoughtfully and logically. While it remains an external source, and not canon, I would love to see JKR's response to it.

After the series, and now knowing about DD's strategies, it makes sense that DD didn't develop them during the timespan of the books, but that the series came into play while all this was going on. The author's name isn't given, but I'd like to see if there are other analyses by him/her. This was very enlightening. Thanks again.

FGM

http://www.redhen-publications.com/Changeling.html

From this page, there are links to numerous HP essays by Red Hen, Fairygdmther.

She has a very enjoyable writing style and creative ideas - almost like fanfiction in an essay format. :)

Here is the scene:
2. Harry was suffering from the pain in his scar that he always got when he was in contact with Voldemort. Quirrell was trying to do a deadly curse on Harry. I think that Dumbledore arrived in time to stop Quirrell from doing the curse. Harry, in my opinion, was passing out from the pain in his scar. I am not sure if Harry would have died just from the pain in his scar. JKR said that the pain in the scar was the soulpiece trying to return to its owner, Voldemort. I wonder if that would have killed Harry?

It wasn't pain in his scar. Harry was not feeling pain. Quirrell was the one in pain from touching Harry. And Quirrell did try to curse Harry, but Harry stopped him by grasping Quirrell's face with his hands. Although the reason is not fully explained, it is clearly something other than the scar. Here's what Dumbledore said (bolding is mine):


"I feared I might be too late."

"You nearly were, I couldn't have kept him off the Stone much longer ---"

"Not the Stone, boy, you -- the effort involved nearly killed you. For one terrible moment there, I was afraid it had."

Whatever the "effort involved", Dumbldore saved Harry by pulling Quirrell off of him, stopping whatever process was going on. But in that entire scene, Harry is not in pain.

It wasn't pain in his scar. Harry was not feeling pain. Quirrell was the one in pain from touching Harry. And Quirrell did try to curse Harry, but Harry stopped him by grasping Quirrell's face with his hands. Although the reason is not fully explained, it is clearly something other than the scar.



Harry was in pain from contact with Quirrellmort, physical contact with Quirrellmort caused him pain throughout moreso than being in the same proximity, as we also see in GoF, when Voldemort touches Harry's face to prove it doesn't casue him pain any longer. I think, as others have said, it may be due to the piece of soul straining to return to where it was originally, when it recognises it nearby. Contact hurt Harry, but it hurt Quirrellmort more, which was why Harry held on to Quirrell for as long as he could.

When the trio get to the logic puzzle Snape left to protect the Stone and Hermione says ‘Brilliant, This isn’t magic – it’s logic – a puzzle. A lot of the greatest wizards haven’t got an ounce of logic, they’d be stuck here for ever.’ - I found my self wondering if this is a hint at his heritage?

I mean his test is not wizard like – Hermione get’s it because it’s very muggle really isn’t it – maybe I’m just reading too much into it?

When the trio get to the logic puzzle Snape left to protect the Stone and Hermione says ‘Brilliant, This isn’t magic – it’s logic – a puzzle. A lot of the greatest wizards haven’t got an ounce of logic, they’d be stuck here for ever.’ - I found my self wondering if this is a hint at his heritage?

I mean his test is not wizard like – Hermione get’s it because it’s very muggle really isn’t it – maybe I’m just reading too much into it?

I think it is a very Snape-like challenge to set- the only magic involved is the potions themselves, which will allow the drinker back/forwards through the flames. Snape would naturally set a challenge to the intellect, Snape, who dislikes "dunderheads" and warns students that they can expect little "foolish wand-waving" in his class. Perhaps it is a hint at his Muggle heritage, but I see it more as a sign that he values intelligence- very Slytherin to value brain power over brute force ("If you'd rather be brawny than brainy", anyone?), as he seems to despise his violent father, hence the title HBP.

But, also, the Trio did not have to perform magic to get past the chess set, that came down to Ron's well-honed chess skills. And the keys, that came down to the skill of the seeker, not performing magic. In fact, the only challenge to involve the Trio performing magic was the Devils' Snare and, had he been conscious, the troll.

If you buy into the theory that these obstacles were chosen specifically to meet the skills of the Trio, it is unsurprising that flying, chess and logic were among the challenges. If three 11/12 year olds could get past the obstacles, they certainly weren't going to keep Voldemort out.

I think it is a very Snape-like challenge to set- the only magic involved is the potions themselves, which will allow the drinker back/forwards through the flames. Snape would naturally set a challenge to the intellect, Snape, who dislikes "dunderheads" and warns students that they can expect little "foolish wand-waving" in his class. Perhaps it is a hint at his Muggle heritage, but I see it more as a sign that he values intelligence- very Slytherin to value brain power over brute force ("If you'd rather be brawny than brainy", anyone?), as he seems to despise his violent father, hence the title HBP.

But, also, the Trio did not have to perform magic to get past the chess set, that came down to Ron's well-honed chess skills. And the keys, that came down to the skill of the seeker, not performing magic. In fact, the only challenge to involve the Trio performing magic was the Devils' Snare and, had he been conscious, the troll.

If you buy into the theory that these obstacles were chosen specifically to meet the skills of the Trio, it is unsurprising that flying, chess and logic were among the challenges. If three 11/12 year olds could get past the obstacles, they certainly weren't going to keep Voldemort out.

Good point! I didn't realize that not much magic- at least spell wise- was really used to get past the obstacles. Even the mirror in the end was more about what was in your heart rather than actual magic.

If you buy into the theory that these obstacles were chosen specifically to meet the skills of the Trio, it is unsurprising that flying, chess and logic were among the challenges. If three 11/12 year olds could get past the obstacles, they certainly weren't going to keep Voldemort out.
But, could it also be possibe that the challanges were so easy so that they would give Quirrillmort a strong confidence boost, that if he can go through these obsicles easily, he can get the stone easily as well? Because there was never a hope in hell that he would ever be able to get that stone on his own.

Harry was in pain from contact with Quirrellmort, physical contact with Quirrellmort caused him pain throughout moreso than being in the same proximity, as we also see in GoF, when Voldemort touches Harry's face to prove it doesn't casue him pain any longer. I think, as others have said, it may be due to the piece of soul straining to return to where it was originally, when it recognises it nearby. Contact hurt Harry, but it hurt Quirrellmort more, which was why Harry held on to Quirrell for as long as he could.
My apologies, I was skimming the chapter the first time I posted. You're right, I re-read the entire chapter (The Man With Two Faces), and Harry does have pain in his scar twice in the confrontation with Quirrellmort. But I still hold to the belief that it was not the pain from the scar that almost killed Harry. Dumbledore said it was the effort it took Harry to hold Quirrellmort off, i.e., cause him to blister & burn. Maybe Vapormort somehow drained Harry's life energy, a bit like what happened to Ginny in Chamber of Secrets.

But, could it also be possibe that the challanges were so easy so that they would give Quirrillmort a strong confidence boost, that if he can go through these obsicles easily, he can get the stone easily as well? Because there was never a hope in hell that he would ever be able to get that stone on his own.


I agree, the Mirror was the only challenge that Voldemort could definitely not have overcome, and perhaps the challenges were set in place to give him a false sense of security before coming to the Mirror. The thing is, though, the obstacles match the Trios' skills very well, and it would appear they were not set in place until after Christmas, when the Mirror was removed from the empty classroom, giving plenty of time to assess the strengths of Harry and his closest friends. Now that I think of it, it seems very convenient that the Mirror was in an empty room quite close to the library, just after Dumbledore gave Harry his cloak and would have been quite likely to try it out by wandering around the castle. (He'd already shown a penchant for breaking the rules)

My apologies, I was skimming the chapter the first time I posted. You're right, I re-read the entire chapter (The Man With Two Faces), and Harry does have pain in his scar twice in the confrontation with Quirrellmort. But I still hold to the belief that it was not the pain from the scar that almost killed Harry. Dumbledore said it was the effort it took Harry to hold Quirrellmort off, i.e., cause him to blister & burn. Maybe Vapormort somehow drained Harry's life energy, a bit like what happened to Ginny in Chamber of Secrets.


I tend to think that the effort involved was persisting in holding onto Quirrell despite the fact that it was causing Harry pain, too. Holding onto someone/something despite it causing you pain counts as effort in my book, but thats just my opinion.

The thing is, though, the obstacles match the Trios' skills very well, and it would appear they were not set in place until after Christmas, when the Mirror was removed from the empty classroom, giving plenty of time to assess the strengths of Harry and his closest friends.

The obstacles were at least partly in place at the start of the school year. Rememebr the warning to stay away from that corridor in the third floor, because of Fluffy (the first obstacle).

The mirror was added later.

I tend to think that the effort involved was persisting in holding onto Quirrell despite the fact that it was causing Harry pain, too. Holding onto someone/something despite it causing you pain counts as effort in my book, but thats just my opinion.
I agree that is a type of effort, but pain does not kill you, although it can drive you insane (as happened to Frank & Alice Longbottom). I respect your opinion, yet I still feel that something more was happening that put Harry's life at risk, that Voldemort somehow was draining life energy from Harry, just as Diary Riddle did to Ginny.

I thought that all of those obstacles protecting the Stone were way too convenient for the Trio. Couldn't Dumbledore just have buried it hundreds of feet into the ground, still gaurded by Fluffy? That seems much easier to me, actually. :) It seems that those obstacles were set up way too easily, just so that the Trio could easily get their way through them. The main thing is that there was a way to get by every obstacle (ex- the white chess players letting them pass when they won). If Dumbledore really didn't want anyone getting to the Stone, then he shouldn't have set up enchantments or obstacles that could be gotten past. And why were there brooms in the Flying keys room?

I thought that all of those obstacles protecting the Stone were way too convenient for the Trio. Couldn't Dumbledore just have buried it hundreds of feet into the ground, still gaurded by Fluffy? That seems much easier to me, actually. :)
It seems that would have been even easier. Play some music for Fluffy and "accio" the Stone.

It seems that those obstacles were set up way too easily, just so that the Trio could easily get their way through them. The main thing is that there was a way to get by every obstacle (ex- the white chess players letting them pass when they won). If Dumbledore really didn't want anyone getting to the Stone, then he shouldn't have set up enchantments or obstacles that could be gotten past. And why were there brooms in the Flying keys room?
The obstacles were merely delaying tactics, although some would also stop the thief in their tracks. An ordinary wizarding thief would have failed along the way -- either by Fluffy (not knowing about the music) or the troll, not knowing enough about Devil's Snare to get free, not being able to catch the key or being a lousy flyer, being a poor chess player, and according to Hermione, the logic puzzle would keep most wizards puzzled for a very long time. Quirrell had Voldemort in his head, so was able to get past every obstacle except the last, and the trio were resourceful/lucky enough to make it past as well (it helped that they all had different skills). It is the last obstacle, Dumbledore's spell, that was the true safeguard for the Stone. Since Quirrell was going to use it for Voldemort, he'd never be able to get it.

Im wondering how Dumbledore knew of what the trio would be able to get passed. Had he been watching them more closely the what wed seen?

The obstacles were at least partly in place at the start of the school year. Rememebr the warning to stay away from that corridor in the third floor, because of Fluffy (the first obstacle).

The mirror was added later.

Fluffy, yes, he was there from the start of the school year, and the Mirror was moved there after Christmas, but we don't know when the other enchantments were put in place. The others seem a bit superfluous, seeing as the Mirror was the true protection, whether or not the other obstacles had been there, Voldemort would not have been able to get the Stone form the mirror. Makes me wonder if perhaps, the staff didn't know about the Mirror, perhaps they only knew about the obstacles the other staff members had used to protect the Stone, but not Dumbledores.


Im wondering how Dumbledore knew of what the trio would be able to get passed. Had he been watching them more closely the what wed seen?

He would easily have known that Hary was a skilled flier, after the first flying lesson. Hermiones' intelligence would also have likely been well known amongst the staff. The chess and Rons' skills there, on the other hand, I don't know.

Fluffy, yes, he was there from the start of the school year, and the Mirror was moved there after Christmas, but we don't know when the other enchantments were put in place. The others seem a bit superfluous, seeing as the Mirror was the true protection, whether or not the other obstacles had been there, Voldemort would not have been able to get the Stone form the mirror.

This argument is why I believe the entire course was in place by the start of the year, including Fluffy. And then when the oidea struck him, Albus added the Mirror.

Even if the Mirror was not there, I think the protections around the Stone would have been immense and certainly not as easy as the other challenges had been. And Dumbledore seems to have his suspicions about Quirrell, Snape was watching him and I think Dumbledore would not have taken chances even before the Mirror was set up.

Even if the Mirror was not there, I think the protections around the Stone would have been immense and certainly not as easy as the other challenges had been. And Dumbledore seems to have his suspicions about Quirrell, Snape was watching him and I think Dumbledore would not have taken chances even before the Mirror was set up.

Agreed. No doubt Dumbledore's spell was on the Stone from the start, and the mirror was just an afterthought, not the main protection.

Agreed. No doubt Dumbledore's spell was on the Stone from the start, and the mirror was just an afterthought, not the main protection.

I agree, the mirror was an afterthought, because it was placed in the chamber much later, but once it was placed, I think it became the main protection, the spells woven were on the mirror in such a manner that one's intentions was what would determine the removal of the stone from that room.

I agree, the mirror was an afterthought, because it was placed in the chamber much later, but once it was placed, I think it became the main protection, the spells woven were on the mirror in such a manner that one's intentions was what would determine the removal of the stone from that room.

Yep, you're right, I re-read that part in the book and Dumbledore's comments show that the spells are woven together.

But I still hold to the belief that it was not the pain from the scar that almost killed Harry. Dumbledore said it was the effort it took Harry to hold Quirrellmort off

I agree with those who have said that Voldemort drained Harry of "life". Pain does not help but I'm sure it would not kill, certainly not in this case. It does sap you of energy but I think Voldemort still had enough of something to be able to kill Harry off if he had enough time to do so.

The obstacles were merely delaying tactics, although some would also stop the thief in their tracks. An ordinary wizarding thief would have failed along the way -- either by Fluffy (not knowing about the music) or the troll, not knowing enough about Devil's Snare to get free, not being able to catch the key or being a lousy flyer, being a poor chess player, and according to Hermione, the logic puzzle would keep most wizards puzzled for a very long time. Quirrell had Voldemort in his head, so was able to get past every obstacle except the last, and the trio were resourceful/lucky enough to make it past as well (it helped that they all had different skills). It is the last obstacle, Dumbledore's spell, that was the true safeguard for the Stone. Since Quirrell was going to use it for Voldemort, he'd never be able to get it.

As the books have gone on, and as I've been on this forum longer and longer, I've begun to believe that although the tasks were indeed deterents, I don't actually believe that DD intended for Harry and co., to actually go down there - his response to Hermione and Ron of "he's gone after him hasn't he?" is too quick off the mark really for him to have intended Harry be down there. I think that somehow DD would have known that someone was down there and the traps/enchantments would have given him time to get down there himself.

Of course the addition of the mirror later on would have helped buy the time as well. We also don't know whether it's possible to get back through the flames...one would assume not as the potions were so precise as to what they did. Hermione could return as she hadn't passed the flames...and all the potions were still there so Quirrell hadn't taken any with him to return back safely.

I also think that DD's speech at the end of Order is quite telling, that he doesn't intend for Harry to go after Quirrell. He basically tells Harry that he believed him too young to know the truth about his parents etc., and so he must surely have believed Harry to have been too young to face Quirrell/Voldemort. He essentially says this in Order - that Harry proved himself capable each year and still DD did not treat him as old enough. Of course, add to the fact that DD loved Harry so much and I really don't think that he'd have been wanting Harry to go off chasing Voldemort.

I also think that DD's speech at the end of Order is quite telling, that he doesn't intend for Harry to go after Quirrell. He basically tells Harry that he believed him too young to know the truth about his parents etc., and so he must surely have believed Harry to have been too young to face Quirrell/Voldemort. He essentially says this in Order - that Harry proved himself capable each year and still DD did not treat him as old enough. Of course, add to the fact that DD loved Harry so much and I really don't think that he'd have been wanting Harry to go off chasing Voldemort.

I disagree with your interpretation. Dumvledore says at the end of Order, that he cared abotu Harry's feelings and worried about him having a happy childhoid, because he came to love him. I doubt this had already happened early in PS/SS.

I still have trouble seeing why Dumbledore and the others made very easy ways of getting through the enchantments. Someone pointed out that most people couldn't have gotten through the obstacles, but the fact remains that if three eleven year olds could, then a lot of fully grown wizards could too. Why even put brooms in the flying key room? Or why include a key and lock door at all? We see that the door can't be opened with a spell, or broken down. Why include an easy way to get through? And why have the white chess players move when (if) you won? And the logic puzzle. Why even have a potion that lets you through, why not just have the fire always blocking the door and no way past? While some people don't know how to get past Devil's Snare, some definitely do. Quirrell, who is a mediocre wizard manages to get by the Troll. Besides the Mirror, which is complete genius, IMO the only sufficient protection was Fluffy. If Hagrid hadn't slipped up no one could have gotten past. But Dumbledore should have planned incase someone did figure out how to get past Fluffy.

It seems illogical that such a smart person as Dumbledore or any of the teachers, really, would purposely have ways in which their enchantments could be passed. It's almost like Dumbledore wanted someone to get past and get to the Stone, which of course he didn't. Even though Voldemort would never have been able to get the Stone out of the Mirror, Harry could have, and there was a chance that Voldemort could have gotten it from Harry. So why did they make it possible to get past the enchantments?

I still have trouble seeing why Dumbledore and the others made very easy ways of getting through the enchantments. Someone pointed out that most people couldn't have gotten through the obstacles, but the fact remains that if three eleven year olds could, then a lot of fully grown wizards could too. Why even put brooms in the flying key room? Or why include a key and lock door at all? We see that the door can't be opened with a spell, or broken down. Why include an easy way to get through? And why have the white chess players move when (if) you won? And the logic puzzle. Why even have a potion that lets you through, why not just have the fire always blocking the door and no way past? While some people don't know how to get past Devil's Snare, some definitely do. Quirrell, who is a mediocre wizard manages to get by the Troll. Besides the Mirror, which is complete genius, IMO the only sufficient protection was Fluffy. If Hagrid hadn't slipped up no one could have gotten past. But Dumbledore should have planned incase someone did figure out how to get past Fluffy.

It seems illogical that such a smart person as Dumbledore or any of the teachers, really, would purposely have ways in which their enchantments could be passed. It's almost like Dumbledore wanted someone to get past and get to the Stone, which of course he didn't. Even though Voldemort would never have been able to get the Stone out of the Mirror, Harry could have, and there was a chance that Voldemort could have gotten it from Harry. So why did they make it possible to get past the enchantments?

The only answer that I have to this is that there had to be a way to get to it. If everything were that difficult to get by then they would never be able to get the Stone at all, or do things such as put the Mirror of Erised in as an afterthought. Honestly, I think that there was a good deal of protection. Especially in the mirror. Obviously it did it's job. The mirror alone would probably have been enough.

The only answer that I have to this is that there had to be a way to get to it. If everything were that difficult to get by then they would never be able to get the Stone at all, or do things such as put the Mirror of Erised in as an afterthought. Honestly, I think that there was a good deal of protection. Especially in the mirror. Obviously it did it's job. The mirror alone would probably have been enough.I agree that the Mirror itself would have been enough. And the answer to the fact that there had to be a way to get the Stone lies within there. Dumbledore and Harry both would have been able to retrieve the Stone, I bet. Dumbledore knew Voldemort couldn't get it, no chance, so the Mirror would have been enough, with Fluffy just for insurance. Hagrid would have told Dumbledore how to get past him if the need arise. I don't see the point of all the extra protections if they're easy enough that three eleven year olds can get past them. :)

I still have trouble seeing why Dumbledore and the others made very easy ways of getting through the enchantments. Someone pointed out that most people couldn't have gotten through the obstacles, but the fact remains that if three eleven year olds could, then a lot of fully grown wizards could too. Why even put brooms in the flying key room? Or why include a key and lock door at all? We see that the door can't be opened with a spell, or broken down. Why include an easy way to get through? And why have the white chess players move when (if) you won? And the logic puzzle. Why even have a potion that lets you through, why not just have the fire always blocking the door and no way past? While some people don't know how to get past Devil's Snare, some definitely do. Quirrell, who is a mediocre wizard manages to get by the Troll. Besides the Mirror, which is complete genius, IMO the only sufficient protection was Fluffy. If Hagrid hadn't slipped up no one could have gotten past. But Dumbledore should have planned incase someone did figure out how to get past Fluffy.

It seems illogical that such a smart person as Dumbledore or any of the teachers, really, would purposely have ways in which their enchantments could be passed. It's almost like Dumbledore wanted someone to get past and get to the Stone, which of course he didn't. Even though Voldemort would never have been able to get the Stone out of the Mirror, Harry could have, and there was a chance that Voldemort could have gotten it from Harry. So why did they make it possible to get past the enchantments?

Yeah I agree with you, I never really thought of this, but it really doesn't make sense. The only thing that most people would have difficulty with is the Three Headed Dog, and of course Dumbledore's little trick with the mirror.

The chess game a lot of people it would seem to me at least, would be able to get past this. We of course know that Ron is a good player, but still like you said, if a "good" 11 year old can get past it wouldn't that mean that most wizards would be able to also?

Most logic puzzles are easy enough to figure out if given enough time. And once again, Hermione was an extremely intelligent 11 year old, but doesn't that mean a intelligent wizard with more experience would be able to figure it out also?

The Devils Snare is the simplest for any ordinary wizard to figure out. Anyone who knew that they were about to take on tricks from Dumbledore and crew would have studied before hand I would like to think and would have known such a simple thing, I mean for goodness sakes and 11 year old knew it from her first year at Hogwarts:p!

The Broom thing sort of makes sense for me. I know of a lot of people who are either intelligent or athletic and are no where in between. So having something to mix it up a little bit is a good idea, but at the same time it wasn't exactly the most difficult thing to do, so it sort of fits with the rest in being a wee bit to convenient for my taste...

I've always had trouble with the traps since they did seem too easy. Of course, it was set up to be puzzles that would show off the skills of each of the kids. I liked that they all contributed to solve the problem.

It seems illogical that such a smart person as Dumbledore or any of the teachers, really, would purposely have ways in which their enchantments could be passed. It's almost like Dumbledore wanted someone to get past and get to the Stone, which of course he didn't. Even though Voldemort would never have been able to get the Stone out of the Mirror, Harry could have, and there was a chance that Voldemort could have gotten it from Harry. So why did they make it possible to get past the enchantments?
But that's the thing, what if it was deliberate, so that Dumbledore could easily catch Quirrillmort in the act? I mean, seriously, one look at that with a bit of context, and you have apsolute proof that he was definatly after the stone. And like i said earlier, they might have been easy to give the guys a false sense of confidence. Overall, i think that this is yet another reason why i don't think that the obstical course was set up just for Harry and his friends, as Quirrillmort (before actually trying it out for real) could have taken it from Harry, killed him, and gotten away from the scene of the crime.

Another idea that i have about this issue, one that i haven't seen around before, is that the whole trap was set up, either by Dumbledore or Flamel (if DD was too lazy to take responsibility) to ensure that Voldemort couldn't plan (or set in motion) anything about either giving himself a body, regaining his lost followers, or anything requiring Harry Potter.

Having said that, i hope it's okay to ask questions that go a little off-tangent, but keeping with current discussions:

1) Are we sure that the letter that got Dumbledore out of the castle that day was sent from Quirrillmort? What if it was sent from Fudge as a guenuine question, or from Dumbledore himself, as an excuse to get out.

2) How did the potions refill themselves? or How did Quirrillmort get through the flames without needing to drink the correct potion?

2) How did the potions refill themselves? or How did Quirrillmort get through the flames without needing to drink the correct potion?

They didn't - if you remember there was very little of the potion that allows you to go foward left, one enough for one, where as there was enough for both Ron & Hermione to get back. So Quirrillmort got to the mirror by working out Snapes riddle & drinking the potion.

I don't think DD expected the trio to attempt to go after the stone to protect it. I don't think he knew any of them well enough by that time. And the other thing is that this trio is exceptionally resourceful when working together. They each respect the other's talents and are willing to work with them. Neither Ron nor Harry would ever question Hermione's knowledge, nor would Harry or Hermione question Ron's skill at chess, and Harry was, of course, a good flier, undeniably.

I feel that all the skills, physically, mentally, logically were designed to test any one person's skills, and would have been adequate to slow down, if not stop any single person. It just had to slow the person down long enough for DD to catch the person in the act of trying to steal the stone. The trio may have messed things up in the master plan, but Harry, with his good and true nature was one of a very few people who could have actually retrieved the stone. I think that this pleased DD to no end, even though they interfered with his plan. I think that this was the beginning of DD's ultimate trust in Harry to do the 'right' thing.

FGM

I think the real difficulty would have been with Dumbledore's spells. After the mirror was placed it was impossible to get the stone, for anyone whose intentions were not pure. Qurriell would have never got the Stone. Even if the Mirror was not placed there, I still think Quirrell would have found it extrmely difficult to get the Stone, removing Dumbledore's spells IMO.

But that's the thing, what if it was deliberate, so that Dumbledore could easily catch Quirrillmort in the act? I mean, seriously, one look at that with a bit of context, and you have apsolute proof that he was definatly after the stone. And like i said earlier, they might have been easy to give the guys a false sense of confidence. Overall, i think that this is yet another reason why i don't think that the obstical course was set up just for Harry and his friends, as Quirrillmort (before actually trying it out for real) could have taken it from Harry, killed him, and gotten away from the scene of the crime.I actually think it's pretty foolish of Dumbledore to put that much faith in Harry and his friends to stop Quirrell. He wasn't a powerful wizard, but he was still a fully grown one. Harry and the Trio had never proved themselves yet. At this point, Dumbledore knows that Harry only survived the attack with Voldemort because of his mother and he doesn't have superpowers or anything. I definitely don't think Dumbledore would take the risk of sending Harry to his death, because he would need him in the future to destroy the Horcruxes. Plus, Harry's death in this situation would serve nothing. IMO, that's definitely not possible that Dumbledore deliberate;y made it easy for people to get through the obstacles. It was waaaay too much of a risk. We know that Harry makes it through, but Dumbledore doesn't know yet. ;)

Yeah I agree with you, I never really thought of this, but it really doesn't make sense. The only thing that most people would have difficulty with is the Three Headed Dog, and of course Dumbledore's little trick with the mirror.
Dumbledore's charm on the Stone, together with the mirror, ensured that no one could get the Stone if they intended to use it in any way. That would stop anyone with ulterior motives. Dumbledore tells Harry later that what Harry was able to see in the mirror at 11 was very rare indeed. So the Stone was protected very well at the end.

The chess game a lot of people it would seem to me at least, would be able to get past this. We of course know that Ron is a good player, but still like you said, if a "good" 11 year old can get past it wouldn't that mean that most wizards would be able to also?
Why would all wizards play chess? I'd imagine it's pretty much like the muggle world, some do and some don't, and of those that play few are really good at it, so it's a good protection in general.

Most logic puzzles are easy enough to figure out if given enough time. And once again, Hermione was an extremely intelligent 11 year old, but doesn't that mean a intelligent wizard with more experience would be able to figure it out also?
Not according to Hermione. Although she has a very logical mind, not many magical people do. Here's the quote from SS:

"Brilliant!" said Hermione. "This isn't magic -- it's logic -- a puzzle. A lot of the greatest wizards haven't got an ounce of logic, they'd be stuck in here forever."

The Devils Snare is the simplest for any ordinary wizard to figure out. Anyone who knew that they were about to take on tricks from Dumbledore and crew would have studied before hand I would like to think and would have known such a simple thing, I mean for goodness sakes and 11 year old knew it from her first year at Hogwarts:p!
And yet, a healer in St. Mungo's failed to recognize it in OotP because they weren't expecting it, and neither did the trio even though they knew it pretty well. So, not failproof by any means.

The Broom thing sort of makes sense for me. I know of a lot of people who are either intelligent or athletic and are no where in between. So having something to mix it up a little bit is a good idea, but at the same time it wasn't exactly the most difficult thing to do, so it sort of fits with the rest in being a wee bit to convenient for my taste...
Perhaps, but again, I think most of the tasks were delaying tactics until Dumbledore could get there, and some wizards would be stuck at one point or another. If you take the trio separately, each of them would have failed if they were alone. Ron would have been still stuck in the Devil's Snare, Hermione doesn't play chess and hates to fly, Harry's only OK at chess and not gifted at logic. They made it through because each of them had unique skills that helped them through all the tasks.

They didn't - if you remember there was very little of the potion that allows you to go foward left, one enough for one, where as there was enough for both Ron & Hermione to get back. So Quirrillmort got to the mirror by working out Snapes riddle & drinking the potion.
I think you may be right about the bottle with the potion to go forward -- or maybe Quirrellmort knew another way to get through the flames without drinking the potion. But Ron wasn't with them, he was unconscious in the chess room, so we don't know how much potion was in the bottle Hermione drank.

I think you may be right about the bottle with the potion to go forward -- or maybe Quirrellmort knew another way to get through the flames without drinking the potion. But Ron wasn't with them, he was unconscious in the chess room, so we don't know how much potion was in the bottle Hermione drank.

Yep - your right. I remebered Ron getting mentioned & mistock it for his being there; sorry. :)

Most logic puzzles are easy enough to figure out if given enough time. And once again, Hermione was an extremely intelligent 11 year old, but doesn't that mean a intelligent wizard with more experience would be able to figure it out also?

Hermione herself points out, as does someone above me, that most wizards are no good at logic. Intelligence does not make logic, in fact sometimes the more intelligent you are the less capable you are at seeing the easy things.

But that's the thing, what if it was deliberate, so that Dumbledore could easily catch Quirrillmort in the act?

That's kind of what I've been beginning to think. I think it was a trap. DD's quick response to noting that Harry must have gone after Quirrell when he sees Hermione and Ron and then pursuing Harry implies to me that he didn't intend for Harry to go down there. If he did, why then did he chase after Harry, why not just leave him to it? I think DD was hoping/believing that he'd be around, and know that someone was after the stone and that they were down there now. We of course know later that DD did not know that Voldemort was necessarily there, he believed it was Quirrell but could not have said that he had Quirrell in leadership.

I don't think DD expected the trio to attempt to go after the stone to protect it. I don't think he knew any of them well enough by that time.

I agree, although I do think he must have had some suspicions given his quick reaction when he saw Ron and Hermione on their own - he comes very quickly to the conclusion that Harry must be down there, without them saying anything. So, I don't think he wanted it to happen, despite what Harry may say once he's out of the hospital, but possibly realised it quickly.

I actually think it's pretty foolish of Dumbledore to put that much faith in Harry and his friends to stop Quirrell.

I don't believe he does, despite what Harry says later. Harry is often wrong, the only people we're supposed to believe regardless of what they say are Hermione and DD according to JK herself. If he thought they were going to stop him then why did he himself go down through the trapdoor to help Harry?

Why would all wizards play chess? I'd imagine it's pretty much like the muggle world, some do and some don't, and of those that play few are really good at it, so it's a good protection in general.

I agree...whilst I can play chess there is very little strategy behind it and it's down to pure luck if I actually win a game.

Perhaps, but again, I think most of the tasks were delaying tactics until Dumbledore could get there

I definitely agree with this. We learn in HBP about anti-intruder alarms and things so there's every possibility that DD has done this for the room with the mirror in it or anywhere else for that matter, and once alerted would need those few minutes to get there...and the person in the room would be distracted as they were trying to figure out how to get the stone anyway.

(PS - have I missed the "move on" as the thread title is chapter 13 - 15 and all of the above is chapters 16 onwards...)

I actually think it's pretty foolish of Dumbledore to put that much faith in Harry and his friends to stop Quirrell.

I agree, but we find out that Dumbledore (although an extremely intelligent man) makes foolish mistakes. However, was he to go and stop Quirrell? Send Snape to do the work? Yes, expecting 3 underage wizards to defeat/stop the dark lord is quite appalling. However, I think this fit into DD's great plan and he knew that Harry would triumph.

I wouldn't like to think that Dumbledore put Harry's life at risk, just to see what he was really made of. I mean I think were putting to much on Dumbledore, we forget how brilliant Voldemort was. He had the perfect plan to get the stone, it really was Dumbledore's trick that stopped him. I think that he(Dumbledore) should have known Harry would try and front Voldemort/Quirrel, without really knowing what he was getting into. So I place blame on Dumbledore here, I just think there was so much he could have prevented early on that he did not.

On another note many of you know that tonight brings the end of SS:sad:. But with it comes the beginning of CoS:clap:. I was thinking that these next 3 days we would spend sort of as a transition. We would discuss SS as a whole, while we begin CoS. Now I know this a little confusing, but I think the best thing possible is just let us start with CoS, and for the next 3 days let anyone who has some last statements about SS can do that. Let me know if there are problems with this I tried to compromise best as possible:).

That sounds fair, Ben. Anyways, I wanted to ask about the Stone. It turns metals into pure gold and makes the Exlir of Life, but how does it accomplish this? Im not too familuar with the actual story.

In a word...magic. How does a green light kill someone? It is the same type of question.

Yeah xhanax I really tend to think it was just magic. I mean it really was unexplained, so I see why you are confused, I just think it might be one of those things they JKR wouldn't be able to explain to you without thinking about it. I would like to think that it is sort of a mystical object, like we have in the real world you know? There is some things even the magical world couldn't explain...

That sounds fair, Ben. Anyways, I wanted to ask about the Stone. It turns metals into pure gold and makes the Exlir of Life, but how does it accomplish this? Im not too familuar with the actual story.

I honestly don't know exactly how it would work, but I do know that there is actually a branch of science called alchemy where they study how to change metal to gold along with other things. I also know that Newton studied alchemy, don't think that he got very far though.

I do know that there was somebody studying it, and he was supposed to have accomplished it.

The Thread is now Open to discuss CoS:clap:. I haven't read chapters 1-3 yet so I will have to get on that;). Here are some of my Final notes on SS....

Dumbledore- I think most of all we see how genius he is, and I'll talk about that first. The Mirror of Erised trick just showed to me how smart and brilliant he really was. Like we have discussed, if it weren't for this trick then Voldemort would have gotten to the Stone with ease. We also saw that he has secrets very early on, that I didn't realize until re-reading it this time around, he was very sneaky and didn't confide in anyone his true feelings towards his past, at least that we know of...

Now another thing I would like to mention was we see that while Dumbledore is absolutely brilliant, we see why being brilliant has it's downsides. He makes a mistake that could have ruined the entire "plan", he was fooled by Voldemort, and it nearly cost him both Harry's life and the Stone.

Harry- He is the character I think most people would agree in saying, changes the least in the course of the books. In SS we see him confused, but like always he adapted fairly quickly. We see more of James than Lily in him, IMO. Unfortunately we don't get to see much of Harry when he is at the bottom of the Totem Pole. This was where I really gained respect for him because he tolerated a family that didn't care to have him for 10 years. It's amazing to me that he became what he did through the Dursley's.

Ron- The thing I like about Ron in SS, is that he very much comes into Hogwarts like Harry. He still is unsure about what it is like, and even has some false impressions about Hogwarts due to Fred and George:lol:. He is very modest, and you continue to see that in the next couple of books, until he grows out of it towards GoF. This was the perfect friend for Harry, and Ron couldn't have been more likable for me in SS.

Hermione- While we don't see much of her until mid-way through the book, we saw that she has a feisty side to her. In SS I loved how she comes in and plays a role unlike she did in any of the other books. She did what she needed to do to gain their friendship as well as Harry and Ron did to her. She showed her loyalty to Harry to the end and for knowing someone half a year, thats pretty impressive.

Snape- We see some foreshadowing here with Snape. From the way he treated Harry, to the way he fronted Quirrel. We should have known that Snape was Dumbledore's man. He wouldn't have saved Harry like that just to fake out Dumbledore. He cared for Harry's life, and obviously we see now that he was running on Dumbledore's orders. I see Snape in a whole new light here, I'm wondering if that will carry on into the other books.

Voldemort- The first thing I remember about Voldemort, is how keen is to stay alive. He will go to any lengths to stay alive, and he did by trespassing what he feared most, Dumbledore's territory. He outsmarted Dumbledore in a way here, by even getting down to the Stone, and getting a chance to end Harry's life. We also see the mistakes he makes, which in a way are equivalent to Dumbledores, in that he risked a lot of things in going to get the Stone. But like I said we all know he would risk anything to get immortality.


Ok anyways...
Here are the three chapters we will be discussing....

Chapter 1- The Worst Birthday
Chapter 2- Dobby's Warning
Chapter 3- The Burrow

I haven't actually sat to reread CoS yet - in part because I'm crazy busy right now and in part because I don't know where I left my copy.

BenGerman did post the Chapter titles, though, and Chapter 3 - The Burrow shook loose a thought or two from my brain.

Until this moment, I don't know if I ever consciously realized it. Ron's particular insecurity here - that Harry might look down upon his home... That may be the closest my life experience has ever identified with one of the characters in this series.

Growing up, my sister and I never really lacked for anything. At the same time, I was quite aware that many of my grade school classmates and their families had certain material advantages.

It was the reactions of some of these at school that made me wonder if I was poor. It was the reactions of those closest to me, whom my parents always made welcome in our home, that made me realize I was rich.

Now that I've reread SS for the first time since the series concluded, all I can say is...wow... what a fantastic book! :tu:I appreciate it all the more now that I know how it ends with deathly hallows. It still amazes me how incredibly consistent JKR was in her writing and her introduction of details in this book ( the deluminator, sirius, Harry swallowing the snitch, etc.) that become so pivotal later on. It was really a treat to start the story all over again, and it reminded me why I became so enraptured with harry potter in the first place.:clap:

Yes, we saw Snape trying to protect Harry, but he never understood him. DD recognized that Harry was trying to save others, and by extension, the school as well. All Snape saw was that he was a disobedient kid, who was always breaking rules. Harry broke rules, not to misbehave but to accomplish what he couldn't do by following the rules - he couldn't do his investigations during the daytime hours, they had to be done at night.

FGM

Okay, in chapter one, it is explained that Muggles are people with "not a drop of magical blood in their blood." Voldemorts "powers had been destroyed the instant he failed to kill Harry." Did this make Voldy a muggle the split second before he became Vapormort?

Okay, in chapter one, it is explained that Muggles are people with "not a drop of magical blood in their blood." Voldemorts "powers had been destroyed the instant he failed to kill Harry." Did this make Voldy a muggle the split second before he became Vapormort?
Not necessarily. Although all of Voldemort's powers were stripped Merope's magical blood still ran through his veins. While Voldemort could logically produce no magic during that "split second," he would not be classified as a Muggle - perhaps a Squib, but, since he still retained magical ability (possession of others), I doubt he would qualify for even that.

Not necessarily. Although all of Voldemort's powers were stripped Merope's magical blood still ran through his veins. While Voldemort could logically produce no magic during that "split second," he would not be classified as a Muggle - perhaps a Squib, but, since he still retained magical ability (possession of others), I doubt he would qualify for even that.

Those common phrases will get ya every time! LOL
He had no veins nor blood at that time, but his soul fragment left in him was still magical.

FGM

Chapter 1: The Worst Birthday
Oh my god! The Dursley's freakout about Harry saying "magic word." HA HA!
Harry missed the castle so much it was like having a constant stomachache. Aw. another mention of how Hogwarts was his home.
Where's Majorca?
LOL! "Jiggery pokery"
"Walk on the newspaper" What does that mean?


Chapter 2: Dobby's Warning

I love Dobby, but I hated the scene in the movies and I hated it in the book! It was almost too painful to read. Getting Harry in trouble like that after Harry was so nice...
Ok, so I thought that the reason Lucius got rid of Riddle's diary was because it tied him to Voldemort? But, Dobby is saying he's know about "a plot" for months? CONFUSED!

Chapter 3: The Burrow

LOL@Ron "We don't need to. You forget who I've got with me."
I don't know, somehow I'm not buying that Fred and George "just know" how to pick a lock like muggles. Since when would wizards who had always lived in the wizarding world learn to do something a muggle does that they can do with magic?
Oh! See this is the first time I have read COS, and in this chapter is the first time I can remember the ghoul in the Weasley's home being mentioned. I remember in DH being so confused by that part.
Mrs. Weasley telling Fred he "could have died" while being in the car? Yay foreshadowing!
Am I the only one who thinks Celestina Warbeck is supposed to be a parody of Celine Dion?
Has anyone else ever thought it would be interesting to have digital book covers that played clips/"moved like wizard pictures" LOL! I'm weird.
Mundungus! He's an a-hole, but he's funny.
I thought the Chudley Cannons sucked. Why would Ron like them?

I thought the Dursleys overreacting to the word magic was hilarious, of all the things Harry could have said. "there are powers Dumbledore doesnt...powers no decent wizard..." What powers was Dobby speaking of here? Did he know the powers of the diary, and the fact that it was a horcrux? Did he know Riddles soul was concealed inside it?

Those common phrases will get ya every time! LOL
He had no veins nor blood at that time, but his soul fragment left in him was still magical.
I was responding to xhanax315, who said, "Did this make Voldy a muggle the split second before he became Vapormort?" I was merely answering in a "What if" scenario.
Where's Majorca?
It is an island off of Spain's east coast.
Ok, so I thought that the reason Lucius got rid of Riddle's diary was because it tied him to Voldemort? But, Dobby is saying he's know about "a plot" for months? CONFUSED!
Partly. Lucius got rid of the diary to "discredit Arthur and get rid of a highly incriminating magical object in one stroke" (HBP, Ch. 23, Page 508). I believe he did it more to discredit Mr. Weasley than to get rid of "a highly incriminating magical object," since I doubt many Ministry officials would be suspicious of it.

I believe Lucius had planned planting the diary on a Weasley "for months," since he deeply hated Arthur for his passage of the Muggle Protection Act. Also, since the diary could be confiscated under that act, Lucius would have to get rid of it. Thus, he clearly planned it months ahead of time, in which case Dobby would know of the "plot."
I don't know, somehow I'm not buying that Fred and George "just know" how to pick a lock like muggles. Since when would wizards who had always lived in the wizarding world learn to do something a muggle does that they can do with magic?
The younger generation that we see is much more knowledgeable and understanding of Muggle traditions, and Fred and George are nosy enough to try every possible way to cause trouble. It is highly plausible that Mrs. Weasley once magically (or non-magically, it does not matter) locked something, and the twins, being unable to perform magic outside school, had to learn the "Muggle trick." What surprised me was how Harry had not learned it before.
I thought the Chudley Cannons sucked. Why would Ron like them?
From Quidditch Through the Ages: "The Cannons have won the League twenty-one times, but the last time they did so was in 1892..." I would say that Ron inherited his liking for the Cannons from a grandfather (possibly Uncle Bilius), as often happens with a child's support for a sports team. Although Ron likes to win, if his liking for the Cannons was instilled at an early age, he would not mind; Ron also seldom wins, so he might as well root for the underdog. Ron is a devoted, loyal friend, and this loyalty is reflected even in his sports team preference.
"there are powers Dumbledore doesnt...powers no decent wizard..." What powers was Dobby speaking of here? Did he know the powers of the diary, and the fact that it was a horcrux? Did he know Riddles soul was concealed inside it?
I believe that they are the same powers McGonagall tells Dumbledore he is too noble to use. It is also possible that Dobby is hinting to Parselmouths, since the ability is often associated with Dark, indecent wizards, and Parseltongue is the only way to stop the heir of Slytherin.
I thought the Dursleys overreacting to the word magic was hilarious, of all the things Harry could have said.
This has to be one of my favorite scenes in the entire series.

One more issue on the first book - on the train, Malfoy, Crabbe and Goyle come into the cabin with Harry and Ron. After determining that it was Harry Potter, Malfoy introduces Crabbe and Goyle as well as himself. When Ron s******* at Draco's name, he makes a nasty comment about the Weasleys.

He then turns to Harry, and says, "You'll soon find out that some wizarding families are better than others, Potter. You don't want to go making friends with the wrong sort. I can help you there." Draco holds out his hand to Harry, but Harry doesn't take it. Harry says, "I think I can tell who the wrong sort are for myself, thanks."

Was Harry being rude here? No matter what Draco had said, he was offering a hand in friendship, and Harry refused to take it.

My feeling is that Harry was rude, and that he should have shaken Draco's hand, and dealt with Draco's attitude later, rather than starting off on the wrong foot with him.

Anyone else have any feelings about this?

FGM

One more issue on the first book - on the train, Malfoy, Crabbe and Goyle come into the cabin with Harry and Ron. After determining that it was Harry Potter, Malfoy introduces Crabbe and Goyle as well as himself. When Ron s******* at Draco's name, he makes a nasty comment about the Weasleys.

He then turns to Harry, and says, "You'll soon find out that some wizarding families are better than others, Potter. You don't want to go making friends with the wrong sort. I can help you there." Draco holds out his hand to Harry, but Harry doesn't take it. Harry says, "I think I can tell who the wrong sort are for myself, thanks."

Was Harry being rude here? No matter what Draco had said, he was offering a hand in friendship, and Harry refused to take it.

My feeling is that Harry was rude, and that he should have shaken Draco's hand, and dealt with Draco's attitude later, rather than starting off on the wrong foot with him.

Anyone else have any feelings about this?

FGM

But Harry wasn't being rude just out of the blue. He had met Draco before in Madame Malkin's Dress Shop. He already knew that he didn't like him. He was very rude in the dress shop.

Was Harry being rude here? No matter what Draco had said, he was offering a hand in friendship, and Harry refused to take it.

My feeling is that Harry was rude, and that he should have shaken Draco's hand, and dealt with Draco's attitude later, rather than starting off on the wrong foot with him.

Anyone else have any feelings about this?

FGM

Why should Harry for even one second pretend that anything that Draco said was right or do anything to encourage it? Or (more importantly) do anything rude to Ron or his family (who had been nice to him even before they knew who he was) by going along with any of what Draco was saying?

Harry had met Draco twice now and had already sized him up (fairly accurately) as a jerk.

He then turns to Harry, and says, "You'll soon find out that some wizarding families are better than others, Potter. You don't want to go making friends with the wrong sort. I can help you there." Draco holds out his hand to Harry, but Harry doesn't take it. Harry says, "I think I can tell who the wrong sort are for myself, thanks."

Was Harry being rude here? No matter what Draco had said, he was offering a hand in friendship, and Harry refused to take it.
You must consider the context in which Draco offered a hand of "friendship." He just insulted Harry's two best friends: Hagrid and Ron (and the rest of his family). I believe Draco's rudeness outweighed Harry's, and Draco made it all too clear that he despised Hagrid and the Weasleys. Harry had already befriended them, so it was incredibly insulting to hear this about his new friends.

Moreover, as previously stated, Harry had already formed an opinion of Harry long before the train. He had described Malfoy as arrogant and a bully and even if Draco would have been nice at that moment, Harry had already gotten a bad taste in his mouth. First impressions are everything..

A few notes about CoS..

On page 31 Ron talks about Perkins being an old "warlock". Is this what an older wizard is called? Is this different than a wizard? Is this just vernacular?

On page 33 Molly yells at the boys for taking the enchanted car to rescue Harry. She screams "YOU COULD DO WITH TAKING A LEAF OUT OF PERCY'S BOOK" <---how ironic? We later find out that Percy turns his back on the family. Maybe Percy should take a leaf out of the rest of the Weasley brother's book.

It broke my heart how alone Harry felt that he had not heard from his friends all summer. His world is basically Hedwig, and she's locked up as well.

On page 10 a quote I found interesting "Wish they could see the famous Harry Potter now, he though savagely as he spread manure on the flower beds, his back aching, sweat running down his face." I thought this quote was a bit out of character for him (understanding that this is blaitant sarcasm on his part) but what struck me was the word savagely. To me, there is nothing savage about Harry, it just seemed out of place for me.

I know that Dobby ends up a hero but I was extremely annoyed with him. In fact, I stayed annoyed with Dobby until the end (covers head and ducks, sorry you Dobby lovers). I found his behavior insufferable, but we can't really blame him because his intentions are good. I was upset at the prospect of Harry not going back to his world because Dobby had done a hover charm that was subsequently blamed on Harry.

That's all for now.

Trailer tomorrow PERHAPS?!?!?!?!?

Regarding my claim about Harry being rude, I guess I was feeling that Harry didn't have any friends (thanks to Dudley), and the only ones he knew from the WW were Ron and Hagrid. I would think he wouldn't want to be rude to someone he just met, and set himself up as stuck-up before he even got to the school. Reputations have been lost for less than that IMO.

FGM

Also, on warlock - Dumbledore is listed as chief Warlock of the Wizengamot.

On page 33 Molly yells at the boys for taking the enchanted car to rescue Harry. She screams "YOU COULD DO WITH TAKING A LEAF OUT OF PERCY'S BOOK" <---how ironic? We later find out that Percy turns his back on the family. Maybe Percy should take a leaf out of the rest of the Weasley brother's book.

Wow good find. It is kind of weird because even towards the begging I get a feel that percy is sort of odd man out as far as the family goes. I think it's funny because Percy gave me the perception he thought he was above what his family believed in and was. I think at one point he even says that Arthur is kind of low on the totem pole, not sure exactly how he said it and when but it was definitely during the time when he was working for fudge.

Regarding my claim about Harry being rude, I guess I was feeling that Harry didn't have any friends (thanks to Dudley), and the only ones he knew from the WW were Ron and Hagrid. I would think he wouldn't want to be rude to someone he just met, and set himself up as stuck-up before he even got to the school. Reputations have been lost for less than that IMO.

I see what you're saying. How could someone in Harry's position snub anyone? I guess that his take was that he'd rather be friends with no one than be friends with someone like Draco. I guess he figured already that he and Ron would be friends too, so that's why he could be semi-rude to Draco.

I see what you're saying. How could someone in Harry's position snub anyone? I guess that his take was that he'd rather be friends with no one than be friends with someone like Draco. I guess he figured already that he and Ron would be friends too, so that's why he could be semi-rude to Draco.

There's another part, too. At this point, while still on the train, there was so much still unknown to Harry. What if he had been sorted into Slytherin - Draco would have made his life miserable for seven years, and he wouldn't have been able to maintain a friendship with Ron, being in a different house. Couldn't he have just shaken hands and thanked Draco, even if he never talked with him again?

FGM

Parly. Lucius got rid of the diary to "discredit Arthur and get rid of a highly incriminating magical object in one stroke" (HBP, Ch. 23, Page 508). I believe he did it more to discredit Mr. Weasley than to get rid of "a highly incriminating magical object," since I doubt many Ministry officials would be suspicious of it.

I believe Lucius had planned planting the diary on a Weasley "for months," since he deeply hated Arthur for his passage of the Muggle Protection Act. Also, since the diary could be confiscated under that act, Lucius would have to get rid of it. Thus, he clearly planned it months ahead of time, in which case Dobby would know of the "plot."
But surely,if it truely was to discredit Arthur, then why didn't Lucius try and slip it to him, rather then another member of his family. I know he couldn't for plot reasons, but for story reasons, it just doesn't make sense to me.

Alternatively, what if he was originally going to give it to Harry? At least then, it would explain why Dobby was sent to Harry's place a few weeks beforehand, - and possibly why Dobby stopped Harry's letters from reaching him, - so that Lucius could find out where Harry could be going, and plan to meet him there to give him the diary in some shape or form.[/quote]

I love the part where the 3 youngest Weasley brothers come to rescue Harry. Uncle Vernon never hears the bars come off of Harry's window, but he hears Hedwig's screech when Harry almost leaves her behind. (Her vocalizations been annoying him since he locked her in her cage. What does he expect?)

The four fugitives are already preparing a story for Molly (to explain Harry's appearance at the Burrow) which becomes a moot point when she catches them right after they land.

Arthur wanting to know how the car (with its special abilities) worked and getting caught in the lambasting from Molly.

Harry's enjoyment of the physical/magical presence of The Burrow. We get to see one of the Weasley clocks - the one with only one hand that tells you what duties are to be performed.

Molly's Lockhart book(s) - The only one ever mentioned (by name) is Gilderoy Lockhart's Guide to Household Pests, which we also see in OOP when they are preparing to attack the Doxies. In chapter 3 (and 4) we hear Lockhart's name a lot - the git. :D

Even though Harry's let off the punishment (degnoming the garden), he wants to be with his rescuers and joins in the punishment, too.

Even though Harry's let off the punishment (degnoming the garden), he wants to be with his rescuers and joins in the punishment, too.

I think this could be a bit of foreshadowing as well. Throughout the series Harry can not bear to see his friends get punished for something he did. This trait in Harry ultimately culminates in him at the Battle of Hogwarts surrendering himself to Voldemort because he couldn't bear to have his loved ones die for him.

I think this could be a bit of foreshadowing as well. Throughout the series Harry can not bear to see his friends get punished for something he did. This trait in Harry ultimately culminates in him at the Battle of Hogwarts surrendering himself to Voldemort because he couldn't bear to have his loved ones die for him.I actually don't think Harry wanting to degnome the garden was because he felt guilty that Mrs. Weasley hadn't yelled at him as well. I believe the explanation he gave- he just wanted to see what degnoming was like. :) Harry has never been in a wizarding home, only with the boring old Dursleys, so this is all new to him. He's never experienced any of the common things that the average wizarding family has and does, so while most wizards find it dull because they do it all the time, Harry is excited about another new experience in the wizarding world. I don't think there's anything more to it. :D

I actually don't think Harry wanting to degnome the garden was because he felt guilty that Mrs. Weasley hadn't yelled at him as well. I believe the explanation he gave- he just wanted to see what degnoming was like. Harry has never been in a wizarding home, only with the boring old Dursleys, so this is all new to him. He's never experienced any of the common things that the average wizarding family has and does, so while most wizards find it dull because they do it all the time, Harry is excited about another new experience in the wizarding world. I don't think there's anything more to it.
I completly agree
Btw is it Ok to join this late? I am really interested in doing this.

fullmetalkitty - welcome here and feel free to add your thoughts. This week we are still adding thoughts from the first book, as well as starting on CoS.

FGM

Thats very nice :) thank you.

But surely,if it truely was to discredit Arthur, then why didn't Lucius try and slip it to him, rather then another member of his family. I know he couldn't for plot reasons, but for story reasons, it just doesn't make sense to me.
The primary reason Lucius needed to slip it to someone, was to re-open the Chamber of Secrets. Besides, Arthur would be too smart to do anything with the diary without properly examining it first -- his first words to Ginny at the end were to reprimand her forgetting what he taught her about never trusting anything when you can't see where its brain is. So ideally it should be a student, and whatever student was picked, the consequences would be dire. Ginny was the perfect pick for Lucius, as Ginny was a first year with less experience, and a Weasley (Weasleys have relationships with Muggles, another point against). And just before he slipped the diary to Ginny, remember that Arthur started a brawl with him. So, it makes perfect sense the way I see it.

Alternatively, what if he was originally going to give it to Harry? At least then, it would explain why Dobby was sent to Harry's place a few weeks beforehand, - and possibly why Dobby stopped Harry's letters from reaching him, - so that Lucius could find out where Harry could be going, and plan to meet him there to give him the diary in some shape or form.
Dobby came of his own accord, because his wish to keep Harry safe was greater than his fear of disobeying his master. Lucius had no idea.

The primary reason Lucius needed to slip it to someone, was to re-open the Chamber of Secrets.
Definatly agreed.


Ginny was the perfect pick for Lucius, as Ginny was a first year with less experience, and a Weasley (Weasleys have relationships with Muggles, another point against).

But how would Lucius find out that Arthur had a girl called Ginny as a daughter? I could understand if he wanted to give it to Ron,, or possibly even Percy (i'm not sure if either Malfoy knows about the twins before the meeting in the bookshop), but i don't see any possible situation where Lucius could find out about Ginny.

And just before he slipped the diary to Ginny, remember that Arthur started a brawl with him. So, it makes perfect sense the way I see it.
But what if it was the brawl that made it give the diary to Ginny? Afterall, opening the CoS would have greatly discredited Dumbledore anyway. If the monster killed, or at least hurt, a random student; then that would definatly be grounds on which to fire Dumbledorefrom his post. But make the great Harry Potter be the one that is hurt/killed; then you've definatly go something which is much bigger that could get Dumbledore removed from his high ranking job(s) at the ministry.

Dobby came of his own accord, because his wish to keep Harry safe was greater than his fear of disobeying his master. Lucius had no idea.
I don't remember it being specifically said anywhere that Lucius had no idea that Dobby was going to visit Harry.

But how would Lucius find out that Arthur had a girl called Ginny as a daughter? I could understand if he wanted to give it to Ron,, or possibly even Percy (i'm not sure if either Malfoy knows about the twins before the meeting in the bookshop), but i don't see any possible situation where Lucius could find out about Ginny.
Why would you think it so unusual that Lucius would know? Ginny was 11 by the time Lucius decided about the diary, that's only 1 year behind Ron, he had to know Arthur's youngest was starting at Hogwarts.

But what if it was the brawl that made it give the diary to Ginny? Afterall, opening the CoS would have greatly discredited Dumbledore anyway.
It was probably not the brawl. Lucius took Ginny's book before the brawl started, and interestingly, was still holding it when he got up after the brawl. He was obviously intent on holding on to it during the scuffle. So it seems certain that he planned on slipping it into Ginny's book from the beginning.

I don't remember it being specifically said anywhere that Lucius had no idea that Dobby was going to visit Harry.
Dobby tells Harry directly:

"The wizard family Dobby serves, sir....Dobby is a house elf --- bound to serve one house and one family forever...."

"Do they know you're here?" asked Harry curiously.

Dobby shuddered.

"Oh, no, sir, no....Dobby will have to punish himself most grievously for coming to see you, sir. Dobby will have to shut his ears in the oven door for this. If they ever knew, sir ---"

So Lucius was just waiting around Diagon Alley with the diary in his pocket?

Well I think he was looking for an oppurtunity, Because in Diagon Alley there would be alot of innocent students walking around and it would probably be very easy to slip the diary without notice. Lucius was just lucky that he found the Weasleys, a family he didn't particularly like. Lucius could have easily have slipped Ginny the diary without anyone noticing if it was'nt for Harry's keen eye, since it was so crowded and that there was such an er.. ruckus. :lol:

But how would Lucius find out that Arthur had a girl called Ginny as a daughter? I could understand if he wanted to give it to Ron,, or possibly even Percy (i'm not sure if either Malfoy knows about the twins before the meeting in the bookshop), but i don't see any possible situation where Lucius could find out about Ginny.
I doubt that Lucius would plant the diary on any of Arthur's sons, for Percy is too old and the twins and Ron would simply throw it away. Ron proved that he was hesitant about anything suspicious, and he would be ridiculed endlessly for writing in a diary. Thus, Ginny was Lucius's only hope. It would not have been difficult for Lucius to find out about Ginny. Firstly, as a school governor he would likely hear stories about the Weasley children, including such a comment as, "They still have one more to go, but this one's a girl: Ginny Weasley." He was also in and out of the Ministry so often that he could easily hear conversations about Arthur Weasley's children. Lucius was slippery, so it would not take much for him to find out about the youngest Weasley. If he was there to pick up Draco from King's Cross he could have seen Ginny fawning over Harry, and she presented herself as perfect prey at that moment.
But what if it was the brawl that made it give the diary to Ginny? Afterall, opening the CoS would have greatly discredited Dumbledore anyway. If the monster killed, or at least hurt, a random student; then that would definatly be grounds on which to fire Dumbledorefrom his post. But make the great Harry Potter be the one that is hurt/killed; then you've definatly go something which is much bigger that could get Dumbledore removed from his high ranking job(s) at the ministry.
We know that Riddle's memory eventually did attempt to hurt/kill Harry, but he was unsuccessful, which is why he took Ginny hostage.
So Lucius was just waiting around Diagon Alley with the diary in his pocket?
I believe he somehow found out that Arthur and his family were in Diagon Alley that Wednesday, based on his statement to Borgin:
"I am in something of a hurry, Borgin, I have important business elsewhere today -"
I believe his "important business" was planting the diary on Ginny Weasley before she went to Hogwarts. I apologize for moving on to Chapter 4.
Well I think he was looking for an oppurtunity, Because in Diagon Alley there would be alot of innocent students walking around and it would probably be very easy to slip the diary without notice. Lucius was just lucky that he found the Weasleys, a family he didn't particularly like. Lucius could have easily have slipped Ginny the diary without anyone noticing if it was'nt for Harry's keen eye, since it was so crowded and that there was such an er.. ruckus.
I disagree, I think Lucius planned to give the diary to Ginny, knowing, perhaps, some of her insecurities. She was a safe bet, if you will, to be taken in by the diary's magic, whereas he could not be certain that the Chamber would open if the diary was planted upon an unknown student.

I disagree, I think Lucius planned to give the diary to Ginny, knowing, perhaps, some of her insecurities. She was a safe bet, if you will, to be taken in by the diary's magic, whereas he could not be certain that the Chamber would open if the diary was planted upon an unknown student.[/QUOTE]

It would be easy to find out about Ginny, but not her insecurities. Who would he have asked? None of the Weasleys would tell him and they are the only ones who really know. Remember that Ginny doesn't go to school and probably almost never leaves home. Even if it was possible to find out, why waste all that time?

It would be easy to find out about Ginny, but not her insecurities. Who would he have asked? None of the Weasleys would tell him and they are the only ones who really know. Remember that Ginny doesn't go to school and probably almost never leaves home. Even if it was possible to find out, why waste all that time?I disagree, I actually don't think Ginny really had that bad insecurities. I would think that all eleven year old girls would spill to that diary. Ginny was just curious, and I bet Lucius knew she would be. It doesn't seem too far out for him to do. :)

I agree. And once you realize hey this talks back most people would actually start conversation. And Tom Ridddle himself could just steer it to emotions and pouring them out to me. And it keeps going in her head and it's normal that once you tsrat talking about your emotions taht you spill them out pretty far :lol:

I actually don't think Ginny really had that bad insecurities.
At the age of eleven, she certainly had severe insecurities - at least, a number of overwhelming "worries and woes":
"...how her brothers tease her, how she had to come to school with secondhand robes and books, how" - Riddle's eyes glinted - "how she didn't think famous, good, great Harry Potter would ever like her..."
While Lucius may not have known of her infatuation with Harry, he could certainly surmise that her brothers tease her and that she had to come to school with secondhand supplies (as seen in Flourish and Blotts).
I would think that all eleven year old girls would spill to that diary. Ginny was just curious, and I bet Lucius knew she would be. It doesn't seem too far out for him to do.
I agree. The majority of eleven-year-old girls have some insecurity/worries, so the diary could have been planted on any one of them. However, Lucius not only wanted the Chamber of Secrets to be opened, he wanted to discredit Arthur Weasley. As long as he knew that Arthur had an eleven-year-old girl he could be fairly confident she would "pour her heart" into the diary.
It would be easy to find out about Ginny, but not her insecurities. Who would he have asked? None of the Weasleys would tell him and they are the only ones who really know. Remember that Ginny doesn't go to school and probably almost never leaves home. Even if it was possible to find out, why waste all that time?
Like I said above, knowing about Ginny also meant Lucius knew about some of her "worries and woes." He knew of the Weasleys' impoverished situation and Ginny's likely ridicule by her brothers. Lucius would even know about her adoration of Harry if he was at King's Cross when all the students returned from Hogwarts.

I have also answered why he would "waste all that time." He not only wanted to be rid of the diary and open the Chamber, he also wanted to discredit Arthur. I do not think he would have to waste a lot of time, either.

While Lucius may not have known of her infatuation with Harry, he could certainly surmise that her brothers tease her and that she had to come to school with secondhand supplies (as seen in Flourish and Blotts).

I doubt that Lucius knew anything about Ginny except it was her first year and she was a Weasley.

Also, Lucius had no idea how the diary would work, just that it would be able to re-open the Chamber of Secrets...that's all Voldemort told him. So it would not matter what he knew about Ginny, because Lucius was clueless about the diary.

Also, Lucius had no idea how the diary would work, just that it would be able to re-open the Chamber of Secrets...that's all Voldemort told him. So it would not matter what he knew about Ginny, because Lucius was clueless about the diary.I tend to agree with that, though I do think he must have known it was a diary. Voldemort didn't even communicate the fact that he was entrusting Lucius with a bit of his soul, which if he had, Lucius would have kept it safe rather than use it for his own ends. If I remember correctly, Arthur was involved in a raid against the Malfoy's home, but didn't find anything illicit. So it's likely that Lucius had intended to give Ginny the diary to make Arthur look bad and to get the Chamber of Secrets open. And since I think he knew it was in fact a diary of sorts, he probably figured he'd be much better off giving it to a girl than a boy in Arthur's family.

I doubt that Lucius knew anything about Ginny except it was her first year and she was a Weasley.
This is my argument. By simply knowing that Ginny was a Weasley and starting her first year he already knew of two of her overwhelming insecurities: being teased by her brothers (easily assumable) and having to go to school with secondhand supplies.
Also, Lucius had no idea how the diary would work, just that it would be able to re-open the Chamber of Secrets...that's all Voldemort told him. So it would not matter what he knew about Ginny, because Lucius was clueless about the diary.
Yet he must have known it was a diary, as RemusLupinFan says (Harry found that out very quickly), so he could assume that someone had to use it for it to open the Chamber of Secrets. Thus, planting it on Ginny would be a safe bet, since he could be fairly certain she would use it because of all her "worries and woes."

Some things I wanted to say about Chapter 4- Flourish and Blotts ...

*First thing I noticed was the Ghoul, I don't know why. I think it was probably because this is the first time I have re-read CoS since DH, and thats when we first see the Weasley's Ghoul, who we had previously known to make loud noises when things got to quite like Jo states in CoS.

*Just a general question that I though might be fun(I got the idea from Arthur saying "Ingenious, really how many ways muggles have found of getting along without magic." Theoretically if you lived in a magical world and were practically clueless as to how "muggles" lived would you be more fascinated with how "muggles" live, or if do you find the magical world we read about more interesting? Just a thought....

*Mrs. Weasley states that Dumbledore already knew that Harry was at the Burrow, but is it Dumbledore who knows where Harry is or some trace of magic? Maybe something in between, I just always thought that the letters somehow addressed themselves....

*Why did Dumbledore allow Lockhart not only to teach at the school but to allow his books to be the required ones? As we know Dumbledore is a very skilled wizard were as Lockhart is not... Couldn't Dumbledore have been able to tell the difference between someone who makes up lies and stories as opposed to one who was a proven wizard? Normally Dumbledore is quite picky about his teachers, I'm very surprised he allowed such a fake to pass through his grip.

*I know people have had this discussion before, but if the Weasley's do Magic under their own house, how can people be sure that it is not Ron, Ginny, Fred, George or Percy(possibly even Harry) doing the magic?

*How was Dobby able to stop the letters from reaching Harry? I know this could have gone in the last section but Hagrid asked why HArry never answered his letters, and it just gave me the thought. Shouldn't the owls have gone strait to Harry?

*I like how Mr. Weasley put the wand down to fight Lucius, he's a real man;).

*Mrs. Weasley states that Dumbledore already knew that Harry was at the Burrow, but is it Dumbledore who knows where Harry is or some trace of magic? Maybe something in between, I just always thought that the letters somehow addressed themselves....

I think that both are probably true. I would think that the letters are written out magically...how else would all those letters be different in SS/PS? However, I would be willing to bet that Dumbledore was also aware of the move. He does keep a very close eye on Harry, we know that. He might have had someone trailing them or something, who knows? But I'm almost positive that he truly did know where Harry was.

*Why did Dumbledore allow Lockhart not only to teach at the school but to allow his books to be the required ones? As we know Dumbledore is a very skilled wizard were as Lockhart is not... Couldn't Dumbledore have been able to tell the difference between someone who makes up lies and stories as opposed to one who was a proven wizard? Normally Dumbledore is quite picky about his teachers, I'm very surprised he allowed such a fake to pass through his grip.

I think the problem is that there were very few people up for the job. There were probably already rumors about the job being cursed. No one would want it, so there would be slim pickings.

*I know people have had this discussion before, but if the Weasley's do Magic under their own house, how can people be sure that it is not Ron, Ginny, Fred, George or Percy(possibly even Harry) doing the magic?

I think that it has been decided that in wizarding families, it is really up to the parents to keep track of it.

*How was Dobby able to stop the letters from reaching Harry? I know this could have gone in the last section but Hagrid asked why HArry never answered his letters, and it just gave me the thought. Shouldn't the owls have gone strait to Harry?

I don't know if we ever will know for sure how exactly this happened, but we are told that House-Elves have a very powerful magic of their own. I'm sure this had something to do with it.


And now my thoughts on chapter 4 (the only one I have read so far).

I love how the mirror says, "Tuck in your shirt, scruffy!" I wish I had a mirror like that, that could help me dress myself in the morning :D.
This is the first we hear about small explosions in Fred and George's room. Are they already starting on projects for WWW?
I love watching Ginny in this one - knocking over the porridge bowl, putting her elbow in the butter dish. Also, it is mentioned that her face was "glowing like the setting sun." Such a flattering portrait.
How wrong Fred and George were wrong about the DADA teacher - "bet it's a witch." Although after some thought, it wasn't that far off.
Hermione ends her letter with "Love from Hermione." I don't know about over in England, but when I was 12 I wasn't saying anything like that to boys. I was just getting over them being icky or just being pals.
Escapators. Enough said.
Malfoy was very whinny to his father. Just one more reason to hate him.
This is also the first time we see the Hand of Glory, which we know that Malfoy uses later around Hogwarts.
Strawberry and Peanut-Butter ice cream? Is that normal? I've never heard of it.
I don't really like Hermione's love of Lockhart. Too girly, girly for her, IMO.

I think the problem is that there were very few people up for the job. There were probably already rumors about the job being cursed. No one would want it, so there would be slim pickings.
But surely, knowing what we know now that Dumbledore hasn't been able to hold a DADA teacher for more than a year after the later 50's - early 60's because the position truely is cursed, i think that there were very persistant rumours about it by the time Snape and co. got there, let alone Harry.

Theoretically if you lived in a magical world and were practically clueless as to how "muggles" lived would you be more fascinated with how "muggles" live, or if do you find the magical world we read about more interesting? Just a thought....
I would most likely be more interested in the Wizarding World, considering the majority of wizards we see are uninterested in learning about Muggles.
Mrs. Weasley states that Dumbledore already knew that Harry was at the Burrow, but is it Dumbledore who knows where Harry is or some trace of magic? Maybe something in between, I just always thought that the letters somehow addressed themselves....
I believe it was Mr. Weasley who said that. I believe it was probably Dumbledore who enchanted the letters to address themselves to the recipient's location. I would also wager that Dumbledore would be informed of a change of location.
Why did Dumbledore allow Lockhart not only to teach at the school but to allow his books to be the required ones? As we know Dumbledore is a very skilled wizard were as Lockhart is not... Couldn't Dumbledore have been able to tell the difference between someone who makes up lies and stories as opposed to one who was a proven wizard? Normally Dumbledore is quite picky about his teachers, I'm very surprised he allowed such a fake to pass through his grip.
Hagrid answers this one:
"I think you're being a bit unfair. Professor Dumbledore opviously thought he was the best man for the job -"
"He was the on'y man for the job," said Hagrid... "An' I mean the on'y one. Gettin' very difficult ter find anyone fer the Dark Arts job. People aren't too keen ter take it on, see. They're startin' ter think it's jinxed. No one's lasted long fer a while now."
Dumbledore was obviously desperate for a Defense Against the Dark Arts teacher. Not even Dumbledore could summon a teacher out of thin air. What interests me about that statement of Hagrid's is that he implies that wizards and witches are just now "startin ter think [the job is] jinxed."
I know people have had this discussion before, but if the Weasley's do Magic under their own house, how can people be sure that it is not Ron, Ginny, Fred, George or Percy(possibly even Harry) doing the magic?
The Ministry does not know. Dumbledore tells Harry in HBP that the Ministry depends on the underage witch or wizard's parents to keep them from doing magic while at home.
How was Dobby able to stop the letters from reaching Harry? I know this could have gone in the last section but Hagrid asked why HArry never answered his letters, and it just gave me the thought. Shouldn't the owls have gone strait to Harry?
The same way Umbridge and the Inquisitorial Squad was able to intercept letters at Hogwarts, and how Filch was able to check packages in HBP. They simply intercept the owl before it reaches the recipient.
I like how Mr. Weasley put the wand down to fight Lucius, he's a real man.
I must admit that this part surprised me because, as we see in later books, it is surprising that students would display "Muggle fighting" instead of using wands. I would have thought older witches and wizards would be so dependent on magic that they could not fight the "Muggle way." Obviously Mr. Weasley's Muggle interests has watered down his magic dependency.
How wrong Fred and George were wrong about the DADA teacher - "bet it's a witch." Although after some thought, it wasn't that far off.
I agree. Their hypothesis was based on the new professor being someone completely obsessed with Lockhart. They were clearly correct.
Hermione ends her letter with "Love from Hermione." I don't know about over in England, but when I was 12 I wasn't saying anything like that to boys. I was just getting over them being icky or just being pals.
Hermione is very mature for her age, and she is a devoted friend (glad to have such two close friends, actually). I have a feeling, though, that Ron kept this letter, much like Snape kept Lily's love in DH.
I don't really like Hermione's love of Lockhart. Too girly, girly for her, IMO.
While mature for her age, this information simply adds to Lockhart's seemingly irresistible charm.

When Harry is found in Knockturn Alley, Hagrid replies "I was looking for a flesh eating slug repellant." Why couldnt the repellant be found in Diagon Alley? Was Hagrid really looking for this? Also, the platform was closed when Harry and Ron attempted to enter it, is it really easy to close the barrier? Did Dobby have trouble with it, and is it always left unattended so anyone could tamper with it? Also, why hadnt Mr and Mrs Weasley not notice Harry and Rons absence? Were they so involved with Ginny that they didnt think to check that they made it or even to say bye? And Snape greets the two when the land on the grounds, why hadnt it been Filch? Is he the only one who reads the paper, or had he known of Harrys absence on the train somehow?

This is my argument. By simply knowing that Ginny was a Weasley and starting her first year he already knew of two of her overwhelming insecurities: being teased by her brothers (easily assumable) and having to go to school with secondhand supplies.
Lucius Malfoy had no idea whatsoever how the diary would reopen the Chamber, so had no idea that a person's personality would help/hinder the effort. He correctly assumed the diary would have to physically be at Hogwarts, and that it would be dangerous for whomever had it in their possession (otherwise he would have just had Draco bring it to school). Lucius doesn't even call Ginny by her name in Flourish & Blott's (he calls her "girl"). Lucius knew very little about Ginny other than she was a Weasley and just starting school -- a means to get the book into Hogwarts and nothing more, and as he did not know how the diary worked, no incentive to find out anything about her.

Yet he must have known it was a diary, as RemusLupinFan says (Harry found that out very quickly), so he could assume that someone had to use it for it to open the Chamber of Secrets. Thus, planting it on Ginny would be a safe bet, since he could be fairly certain she would use it because of all her "worries and woes."
Lucius may have noticed it was a diary, but I'm sure he had no idea how it worked. Voldemort only told Lucius that it was enchanted to reopen the Chamber, nothing more. Lucius had no details on how it would work. He was just mean enough to use Ginny because he disliked Arthur so much, and because he figured a first year would be no match for the enchantment placed on the book.

So my thoughts on the other two chapters:

Chapter 5: The Whomping Willow


First time we see Ginny's diary.
I love how Harry was thinking about how he would land "smoothly and spectacularly on the sweeping lawn." Had to know that something was going to go wrong when he said that.
I love how the car has such a personalilty. How it had "reached the end of its tether." So great.
Also love the line about how they had to hit the one tree that hits back.
I noticed while reading these chapters what while most professors are referred to as Professor _____, Lockhart is refered to most often as Gilderoy Lockhart. I can't think of anyone else who is referred to this way.
Was Snape asked by Dumbledore to watch for the boys because he somehow knew that they didn't make the train?
I love McGonagall's line after Harry said he didn't think - and McGonagall replies that that was obvious. She is amazing.
Snape was happier than ever to bring Dumbledore in to yell at the boys? That seems extreme.
And I love Dumbledore too (I guess I love alot in this chapter). "Are we being expelled?" "Not today."
Also: "There was a custard tart that I wanted to sample." How can you not love him?
JKR used impatiently to describe both Ron and Hermione within two sentences.


Chapter 6: Gilderoy Lockhart


I really don't like Lockhart.
He keeps his brilliant teeth showing even when he is not talking. Ew.
Telling Harry that he is more of a nobody than Harry - who does he think he is?
How does the points system at Hogwarts work? I mean is there something like the quill that detects magical children that detects when teachers add or deduct points?
Ron was the one to notice that Lockhart's classes were line in hearts, and he's upset. Who is surprised by that?
Lockhart sure uses lots of exclamation points.
I really don't like Lockhart.

Snape was happier than ever to bring Dumbledore in to yell at the boys? That seems extreme.


In light of the conversation he had just overheard, I thougt his reaction wasn't particualrly surprising:


"Hang on. . . " Harry muttered to Ron. "There's an empty chair at the staff table .... Where's Snape?"

Professor Severus Snape was Harry's least favorite teacher. Harry also happened to be Snape's least favorite student. Cruel, sarcastic, and disliked by everybody except the students from his own house (Slytherin), Snape taught Potions.

"Maybe he's ill!" said Ron hopefully.

"Maybe he's left," said Harry, "because he missed out on the Defense Against Dark Arts job again!"

"Or he might have been sacked!" said Ron enthusiastically. "I mean, everyone hates him -"

"Or maybe," said a very cold voice right behind them, "he's waiting to hear why you two didn't arrive on the school train."


(May I just also add that I adore this scene? :D )

How does the points system at Hogwarts work? I mean is there something like the quill that detects magical children that detects when teachers add or deduct points?

I always assumed it was the hourglasses that were magical, and could be set to record the wishes of authorized persons regarding House Points. These would usually be the teachers, but in OotP it seems Umbridge was able to extend this to the Inquisitorial Squad as well.

I really don't like Lockhart.

I think he's hysterical. I don't like him as a person, but he is a great comic character. :love: I liked Hermione and Molly having a weak spot for him, and he makes a great foil for Snape.

In light of the conversation he had just overheard, I thougt his reaction wasn't particualrly surprising:


"Hang on. . . " Harry muttered to Ron. "There's an empty chair at the staff table .... Where's Snape?"

Professor Severus Snape was Harry's least favorite teacher. Harry also happened to be Snape's least favorite student. Cruel, sarcastic, and disliked by everybody except the students from his own house (Slytherin), Snape taught Potions.

"Maybe he's ill!" said Ron hopefully.

"Maybe he's left," said Harry, "because he missed out on the Defense Against Dark Arts job again!"

"Or he might have been sacked!" said Ron enthusiastically. "I mean, everyone hates him -"

"Or maybe," said a very cold voice right behind them, "he's waiting to hear why you two didn't arrive on the school train."


(May I just also add that I adore this scene? :D )

I didn't think about it in that context. I guess there is a point there. :D

So my thoughts on the other two chapters:

Chapter 5: The Whomping Willow


And I love Dumbledore too (I guess I love alot in this chapter). "Are we being expelled?" "Not today."
Also: "There was a custard tart that I wanted to sample." How can you not love him?


Yep! Dumbledore's a character, great sense of humor, very dry.

Chapter 6: Gilderoy Lockhart


I really don't like Lockhart.
Ron was the one to notice that Lockhart's classes were line in hearts, and he's upset. Who is surprised by that?
I really don't like Lockhart.

Agreed, not a very likable character in the books, so full of himself and so fake.

I wasn't surprised at Ron's reaction to Hermione's hearts drawn around Lockhart's class schedule. I think Ron's liked Hermione since she barged into his & Harry's train car in book 1.

I was curious to know how Hedwigs cage burst open, was it the force of the impact or was it something else?

Lucius doesn't even call Ginny by her name in Flourish & Blott's (he calls her "girl").
I believe this was more out of spite/hatred rather than not actually knowing her name. By addressing her by name, he would have lost some of the contempt behind that statement. Also, calling one by one's name often points to familiarity between the two individuals, which was not the case in Flourish and Blotts. Arthur may have inquired as to how Lucius knew his daughter's name (which I am certain he did).
Lucius knew very little about Ginny other than she was a Weasley and just starting school -- a means to get the book into Hogwarts and nothing more, and as he did not know how the diary worked, no incentive to find out anything about her.
Once again, he did not need to find out anything more about her, since by knowing "she was a Weasley and just starting school" he knew her impoverished and ridiculed fate (since she had six brothers).
Lucius may have noticed it was a diary, but I'm sure he had no idea how it worked.
Which is why he would have done all in his power to make it work. Thus, would have planned for the most plausible scenarios, one of the most prominent being, of course, the girl (or boy) having to write in it like a normal diary. He could be sure that Ginny would do that.
First time we see Ginny's diary.
Yes, I particularly enjoy how she had almost left it at the Burrow. How Lucius's plan would have backfired!
Telling Harry that he is more of a nobody than Harry - who does he think he is?
Gilderoy Lockhart, Order of Merlin, Third Class, Honorary Member of the Dark Force Defense League, and five-time winner of Witch Weekly's Most-Charming-Smile Award.
I think that sums it up.
I was curious to know how Hedwigs cage burst open, was it the force of the impact or was it something else?
I believe it was simply the impact of being thrown onto the ground by the car, since the cage was no longer padlocked. Animal cages do not have the most resistant locking mechanisms.

One thing that intrigued me in Chapter Five was this:
"Have you got any Muggle money?"
Harry gave a hollow laugh. "The Dursleys haven't given me pocket money for about six years."
I am curious as to why Harry was given pocket money at around the age of six. Any ideas?

OMG MrSleepyHead, you took the thought right from head. I was wondering why that money flow had suddenly stopped. Something must have been happening, perhaps Harrys magic began showing.

I think he's hysterical. I don't like him as a person, but he is a great comic character. I liked Hermione and Molly having a weak spot for him, and he makes a great foil for Snape.Yes, I enjoyed watching Snape expose his fraud as a DADA teacher during the duel. ;) In general Lockhart's character was quite transparent, and his comments to Harry about fame annoyed me at times (probably because Harry hated them so much!). But he was amusing to read about. :)
I am curious as to why Harry was given pocket money at around the age of six. Any ideas?Hmm that's an interesting point. I can't see why they would have ever given him pocket money at all, since they considered him to be a waste of their dollars. Maybe they just gave him a couple of pennies every once and a while.

Once again, he did not need to find out anything more about her, since by knowing "she was a Weasley and just starting school" he knew her impoverished and ridiculed fate (since she had six brothers).
Sorry, but I have to disagree. He had no idea if Ginny was ridiculed at home or not. Having brothers does not automatically mean they will make fun of you, and there's no indication in the books that they did. If anything, her brothers seem overly protective of her. It was Ron who was ridiculed, not Ginny.

Which is why he would have done all in his power to make it work. Thus, would have planned for the most plausible scenarios, one of the most prominent being, of course, the girl (or boy) having to write in it like a normal diary. He could be sure that Ginny would do that.

Lucius couldn't plan anything except to plant the diary on a student. He did not know how the diary would work at all, he had no knowledge of the enchantment Voldemort placed on it. It could have been anything, it could have required nothing more than to be carried inside Hogwarts as far as Lucius knew. Since he didn't know anything about how it worked, there would be no scenarios planned, he had nothing to base it on.

I think he's hysterical. I don't like him as a person, but he is a great comic character. I liked Hermione and Molly having a weak spot for him, and he makes a great foil for Snape.

Your right IMO. I think he was great, like RemusLupinFan said, that scene where you see Snape expose Lockhart really added humor to what was one of the darker books IMO.

About the money thing, it's really a good catch first of all that you even found it was at six that they stopped giving him pocket money:tu:. But I also thought that what xhanax said was really a good explanation. I think that Harry may have began to show his magical powers early in life, possibly around 6 years old. And I have pointed out my opinion on this earlier, I think the Dursley's at some point were hoping Harry could be like a normal child to them. Maybe not like a son, but maybe if they could have "stomped the magic out of him" then, maybe in a way they were forgetting about Lily and James also.

About the money thing, it's really a good catch first of all that you even found it was at six that they stopped giving him pocket money:tu:. But I also thought that what xhanax said was really a good explanation. I think that Harry may have began to show his magical powers early in life, possibly around 6 years old. And I have pointed out my opinion on this earlier, I think the Dursley's at some point were hoping Harry could be like a normal child to them. Maybe not like a son, but maybe if they could have "stomped the magic out of him" then, maybe in a way they were forgetting about Lily and James also.
Actually, Harry was showing magical powers when he was 1 year old (tiny broomstick from Sirius). No idea why they would have given him money at one point, though.

There could be so many reasons why the Dursleys stopped giving harry Pocket money. It could be because Harry apparated once on to the School roof, or he turned his teacher's hair blue or grew back his hair in one night, all of which seemed to have happened before he was eleven.

Actually, Harry was showing magical powers when he was 1 year old (tiny broomstick from Sirius). No idea why they would have given him money at one point, though.

Do broomsticks require magical ability to operate?

I doubt that one did. It seemed to be a toy to me. Maybe it had a charm or enchantment that made it work, but it wouldn't require any magic from Harry.

Do broomsticks require magical ability to operate?

I think they do. I doubt they would be able to operate using only the magic from the witch or wizard. Harry too, I think woiuld have had some magic in it, but I suppose it would have been very mild.

I was wondering why that money flow had suddenly stopped.
I was wondering more why that money flow had ever started. Even if Harry had not shown magic, I would not think the Dursleys would ever have given him pocket money. Perhaps enough money to buy a few items (for the Dursleys) but not to be used for much else. The impression I got from the Dursleys was they wanted to stamp out all magic in Harry and make his life miserable, which is why I cannot understand why they would have given him money, unless it was to purchase things for the Dursleys.

The only possible explanation is that he did not start exhibiting his magic (he was a late bloomer, possibly), thus he was given a bit of money as a "reward," but even this I find unlikely.
Maybe they just gave him a couple of pennies every once and a while.
I would hardly call this "pocket money," would you?
I think they do. I doubt they would be able to operate using only the magic from the witch or wizard. Harry too, I think woiuld have had some magic in it, but I suppose it would have been very mild.
While I agree that normal broomsticks require the witch or wizard's magic along with its own enchantment, I doubt that the toy broomstick Harry rode when he was only one year old needed any of Harry's magic. It was so small and primitive in its ability that all it needed was a simple enchantment.

IWhile I agree that normal broomsticks require the witch or wizard's magic along with its own enchantment, I doubt that the toy broomstick Harry rode when he was only one year old needed any of Harry's magic. It was so small and primitive in its ability that all it needed was a simple enchantment.

I think you misunderstood, or perhaps I was not very clear. :)

I was not saying that broomsticks needed a wizard's magic to operate, what I was trying to say was that the broomstick needed magic to operate. And I thought that Harry's broomstick being a toy one needed only mild magic IMO. Of course it would need a magical person to operate it also. A muggle would not probably be compatible with the magic in the broom, and to a muggle, it would probably be an ordinary broom, I suppose, or would it work well for a muggle as well?

Why wouldnt the broom work for a muggle? The broom has the magical power, so it wouldnt matter. Kicking off from thd ground might be different, they might not know what to do. The teapot, the regurgitating tiolet, and the shrinking keys worked with them, why not a broomstick?

Why wouldnt the broom work for a muggle? The broom has the magical power, so it wouldnt matter. Kicking off from thd ground might be different, they might not know what to do. The teapot, the regurgitating tiolet, and the shrinking keys worked with them, why not a broomstick?
The teapot and the regurgitating toilets (eww) were a different matter. Their normal function was changed by magic to operate otherwise. The equivalent of a practical joke by a wizard on a muggle. The toilet would have regurgitated whether a muggle or wizard used it.

The broomstick is a different matter. Obviously it's enchanted -- Neville's kept going even after he fell off of it in SS (maybe the broomstick's enchantment was wearing off) -- but I think that to work properly, you also have to be magical yourself. The brooms at the first flying lesson in SS just sit on the ground until the kids summon them. Also, Harry is able to fly very well from the first instant he tries, and perhaps that's because of the toy broomstick he had when he was 1 year old. It may be like a wand, in theory, that it channels the magic of the user.

The teapot and the regurgitating toilets (eww) were a different matter. Their normal function was changed by magic to operate otherwise. The equivalent of a practical joke by a wizard on a muggle. The toilet would have regurgitated whether a muggle or wizard used it.

The broomstick is a different matter. Obviously it's enchanted -- Neville's kept going even after he fell off of it in SS -- but I think that to work properly, you also have to be magical yourself. The brooms at the first flying lesson in SS just sit on the ground until the kids summon them. Also, Harry is able to fly very well from the first instant he tries, and perhaps that's because of the toy broomstick he had when he was 1 year old. It may be like a wand, in theory, that it channels the magic of the user.Wow, I wish I could add something more to that but I completely agree with that. In SS/PS, Harry notes that brooms were like horses; they know when the rider is afraid. :)

Wow, I wish I could add something more to that but I completely agree with that. In SS/PS, Harry notes that brooms were like horses; they know when the rider is afraid. :)

Yeah I also agree. I at first thought when we began to discuss this that the brooms didn't require magic to use, although they needed magic to operate. I have to say you completely convinced me HedwigOwl:). I did want to point out though, and this sort of goes along with some of the others arguments about when Harry began to use magic, If the broom requires a wizard/witch to operate than that must mean that Harry began using Magic at age one, like a lot of you said. But my thing is, isn't that extremely early? I mean the only other wizards and witches I can think of Jo explaining to us(that used magic early in their life) were Neville, Lily, Snape and Hermione, who while we never were told about things such as Harry's jumping onto the roof, I remember that I always assumed that they all starting showing signs of magic at around age 6(with the exception of Neville who we knew was a late bloomer). It just seems 1 would be a very young age to express signs of magic...

Yeah I also agree. I at first thought when we began to discuss this that the brooms didn't require magic to use, although they needed magic to operate. I have to say you completely convinced me HedwigOwl:). I did want to point out though, and this sort of goes along with some of the others arguments about when Harry began to use magic, If the broom requires a wizard/witch to operate than that must mean that Harry began using Magic at age one, like a lot of you said. But my thing is, isn't that extremely early? I mean the only other wizards and witches I can think of Jo explaining to us(that used magic early in their life) were Neville, Lily, Snape and Hermione, who while we never were told about things such as Harry's jumping onto the roof, I remember that I always assumed that they all starting showing signs of magic at around age 6(with the exception of Neville who we knew was a late bloomer). It just seems 1 would be a very young age to express signs of magic...
In GoF, at the World Cup, Harry sees a boy no older than two, who has taken his father's wand and is busy using it to make a slug as large as a salami before his mother stops him, and he sees 2 tiny witches the same age zooming around the area on toy broomsticks. So it doesn't seem too early. I'm guessing many an infant/toddler made a mobile spin, or made toys come to them, at the very least.

In GoF, at the World Cup, Harry sees a boy no older than two, who has taken his father's wand and is busy using it to make a slug as large as a salami before his mother stops him, and he sees 2 tiny witches the same age zooming around the area on toy broomsticks. So it doesn't seem too early. I'm guessing many an infant/toddler made a mobile spin, or made toys come to them, at the very least.

Thanks for clearing that up, I had forgotten about that:tu:.

As you guys know today is Tuesday, so the new chapters have began. So get to reading:lol:.

As I've been rereading CoS for the first time since finishing DH, I have to say it gives me a whole new perspective. Every time I read about Dobby I get such a bittersweet feeling-I'm happy to revisit his character again but knowing his fate definitely casts a tragic shadow on those scenes for me. Same goes for Fred.

It's definitely strange going thru this book again knowing how it all turns out.
Well, I'll get back to reading ch 7-9 and post my thoughts later.

As I've been rereading CoS for the first time since finishing DH, I have to say it gives me a whole new perspective. Every time I read about Dobby I get such a bittersweet feeling-I'm happy to revisit his character again but knowing his fate definitely casts a tragic shadow on those scenes for me. Same goes for Fred.

It's definitely strange going thru this book again knowing how it all turns out.
Well, I'll get back to reading ch 7-9 and post my thoughts later.

How very right you are! Its so sad reading all this now, and then how everything will end up. :upset:

BenGerman - Thanks for the reminder, I'll get to reading 7 - 9. But I have a question on chapter 4. When Harry ducks into the large black cabinet in Borgin & Burkes, could it have been the vanishing cabinet? If it was, good thing that Harry didn't close the door all the way -- although the cabinet at Hogwarts wasn't broken yet...but still.:lol:

I always assumed it was. :D

BenGerman - Thanks for the reminder, I'll get to reading 7 - 9. But I have a question on chapter 4. When Harry ducks into the large black cabinet in Borgin & Burkes, could it have been the vanishing cabinet? If it was, good thing that Harry didn't close the door all the way -- although the cabinet at Hogwarts wasn't broken yet...but still.:lol:

Wow very nice catch Hedwig. being someone who never thought of that I'm glad you stated it for everyone:tu:. But it does make sense, now that we know that the other cabinet was in Borin's all along. It would have completely changed the story, I always like to think about stuff like that, the what ifs.

Now on another not I had a question about Chapter 9.

We see that this is where the attacks of the Basalisk start. We also start to see signs of Ginny acting confused and sort of embarrassed. Now in a way they explain this later on in the books, but she says she was possessed by Voldemort. This wasn't the same as the Quirrel/Voldemort thing though right? I've always sort of imagined it that way but after just reading SS it clearly can't be the same thing. So my question is, what exactly is it?

Wow very nice catch Hedwig. being someone who never thought of that I'm glad you stated it for everyone:tu:. But it does make sense, now that we know that the other cabinet was in Borin's all along. It would have completely changed the story, I always like to think about stuff like that, the what ifs.

Now on another not I had a question about Chapter 9.

We see that this is where the attacks of the Basalisk start. We also start to see signs of Ginny acting confused and sort of embarrassed. Now in a way they explain this later on in the books, but she says she was possessed by Voldemort. This wasn't the same as the Quirrel/Voldemort thing though right? I've always sort of imagined it that way but after just reading SS it clearly can't be the same thing. So my question is, what exactly is it?
I noticed that Hagrid thinks Ginny visited him looking for Harry, but I think she may have been scoping out how many roosters had to be killed (their crowing is harmful to the basilisk), possibly possessed for a short time. I'm not sure if it was the same as Quirrell; I think Quirrell knew what he was doing most of the time, he was easily manipulated by Voldemort so it was a voluntary possession (if there is such a thing). But perhaps with Ginny -- she wouldn't have wanted to kill the roosters, for example -- DiaryRiddle was able to suppress Ginny's memory of what she was doing, which would explain the lapses. When Harry was possessed briefly in OoTP, he was aware of everything that Voldemort said to Dumbledore, but Harry could not see or control his own movement. Quirrell actually had a conversaton with Voldemort in SS/PS, and Harry could hear both of them, and Quirrell could see and control his own movements. So my guess is, they were all a type of possession, but different degrees.

So my guess is, they were all a type of possession, but different degrees.
I have a different view on this. I think that they were the same kind of possession. However, the difference was Ginny resisted a lot whilst Tom was taking over her mind, and he (through herself?) Obliviated her memory of the events. At least, that's what i an gather from what the Diary itself has to say nar the end of the book. Off course, this is made all the more difficult to fathem by not seeing her in action (for plot purposes, i know, but still).

As for the Vanishing Cabinet, it's not much use as a cabinet if when the doors close, the objects you put inside disappear to some place else. So, how about if they need a password (or activation code) to work? Then the person wh was using then could control what goes and what doesn't.

When Crabbe got locked into it (or GOyle?), he didn't use a password or anything. He just got stucked between the two, so I don't think that'd be necessary. Also, later when its fixed, the Death Eaters were just able to pass threw.

i have been such a slacker with my reading, i've been crazy busy lately.

We have to remember that Ginny had periods of where she wouldn't know where she was, almost like she was 'blacked out' and I believe that is this period in which Voldemort was inside her mind making her act not upon her own accord.

It's almost as if he had a switch in her brain that he could turn on and off.

When Crabbe got locked into it (or GOyle?), he didn't use a password or anything. He just got stucked between the two, so I don't think that'd be necessary. Also, later when its fixed, the Death Eaters were just able to pass threw.
Yeah, but when Montigue was in there, the cabinet he was in was totally and utterly broken, so it wasn't fuctioning correctly in the first place. And maybe the DE's got through because Malfoy gave them the password to be able to actually use it.

We have to remember that Ginny had periods of where she wouldn't know where she was, almost like she was 'blacked out' and I believe that is this period in which Voldemort was inside her mind making her act not upon her own accord.
I can't remember, does Tom say that, or Ginny herself? Because if it's Tom, then i certainly wouldn't take his word for it at face value.

Ok after read the chapter again I have a new take on the Ginny possession thing.

I think like HedwigOwl said it is all just a different degree of possession. We see with Quirrel he was able to control himself, but was easily persuaded by Voldemort, which we know is very common as he was very good at it. Ginny's possession is very different in my opinion. I think we will learn much more about it as we read the last few chapters again and Riddle discusses it, but as for right now I think that Ginny fought off the possession as best she could but when Riddle really wanted something done, there was nothing Ginny could do. So my take on it is, the memory of Riddle was the one doing all of those things, just in Ginny's body. So when she(Ginny) became vulnerable, and therefore Riddle was able to control her. This is more similar to Harry's possession which we now know, Voldemort was able to creep into Harry's mind as he became vulnerable.

So all in all Quirrel's I wouldn't even call a possession. I think that he was able to to control what he did, but was easily swayed by Voldemort.

Ginny fought off the possession, but when Vulnerable, was completely possessed by Voldemort.

Harry let Voldemort into his mind when vulnerable, but was able to think and see what was going on. I think this was well explained in OOtP and DH so when we get to that we can revisit the topic of Harry's possession.

I was just wondering whether Harry had ever told Ron and Hermione about the Sorting Hat had considered putting him in Slytherin, had he told them in later life? :hmm: Also, when Mrs. Norris was attacked, the trio went back to investigate, there where scorch marks....what were these from?

I have a different view on this. I think that they were the same kind of possession. However, the difference was Ginny resisted a lot whilst Tom was taking over her mind, and he (through herself?) Obliviated her memory of the events. At least, that's what i an gather from what the Diary itself has to say nar the end of the book. Off course, this is made all the more difficult to fathem by not seeing her in action (for plot purposes, i know, but still).
Though we are getting ahead of the chapters here, I don't find any evidence that Riddle obliviated Ginny's memory. Ginny says in OotP that she couldn't recall certain periods of time, but Riddle makes no mention.

As for the Vanishing Cabinet, it's not much use as a cabinet if when the doors close, the objects you put inside disappear to some place else. So, how about if they need a password (or activation code) to work? Then the person wh was using then could control what goes and what doesn't.

That was the whole purpose of the Vanishing Cabinet, though, you wouldn't use it to put things inside. It's for getting from one point to another without apparating. The twins shoved Montague into the Vanishing Cabinet in OotP and shut the door. They had no idea where he'd gone.


I was just wondering whether Harry had ever told Ron and Hermione about the Sorting Hat had considered putting him in Slytherin, had he told them in later life? Also, when Mrs. Norris was attacked, the trio went back to investigate, there where scorch marks....what were these from?
No. In DH Harry tells his son Albus that the Sorting Hat would take his feelings into account, and it says Harry hadn't ever told anyone about that before.

About the scorch marks -- good question. Maybe Ginny dropped/put down a torch while writing the message on the wall?

Ok after read the chapter again I have a new take on the Ginny possession thing.

I think like HedwigOwl said it is all just a different degree of possession. We see with Quirrel he was able to control himself, but was easily persuaded by Voldemort, which we know is very common as he was very good at it. Ginny's possession is very different in my opinion. I think we will learn much more about it as we read the last few chapters again and Riddle discusses it, but as for right now I think that Ginny fought off the possession as best she could but when Riddle really wanted something done, there was nothing Ginny could do. So my take on it is, the memory of Riddle was the one doing all of those things, just in Ginny's body. So when she(Ginny) became vulnerable, and therefore Riddle was able to control her. This is more similar to Harry's possession which we now know, Voldemort was able to creep into Harry's mind as he became vulnerable.

So all in all Quirrel's I wouldn't even call a possession. I think that he was able to to control what he did, but was easily swayed by Voldemort.

Ginny fought off the possession, but when Vulnerable, was completely possessed by Voldemort.

Harry let Voldemort into his mind when vulnerable, but was able to think and see what was going on. I think this was well explained in OOtP and DH so when we get to that we can revisit the topic of Harry's possession.


Yes, I definately agree with you on this. With Ginny we also have to remember that she was basically being inhabited by a horcrux--the spell was specifically designed to do what it did which in itself makes it different from both Quirrel and Harry. The diary was an object that was created to impart a memory (which we later find out is really a bit of dismembered soul) into a host to control them and use them to unlock the Chamber of Secrets. Ginny was being possessed by an actual thing that was designed for the sole purpose of inhabiting and utterly controlling some innocent bystander.

Harry's possession was more like a dark magic spell from what I gather in OotP, it seemed to me like Voldemort was trying something he'd no doubt found in one of the ancient books like Hermione had in DH that she said were full of horrible stuff that only the worst wizards ever attempt. I mean it's completely different from Quirrel and Ginny because Voldemort was a living man, flesh and blood who was possessing Harry somehow. It makes me wonder whether his own body was still there or if he somehow dissolved and entered him like they portrayed in the movie (which honestly was a really weird scene...).

Now Quirrel, like you said BenGerman, hardly even counts as possession. It was more like being a host, or parasite. He didn't have any control of Quirrel by will, Quirrel was just a cowardly idiot that's all. And really Voldemort wasn't even able to use Quirrel's body at all. He just sat there on the back of Quirrel's body. The only advantage he gained was the ability to speak but other than that he was still just a pitiful lump of nothing.

This wasn't the same as the Quirrel/Voldemort thing though right? I've always sort of imagined it that way but after just reading SS it clearly can't be the same thing. So my question is, what exactly is it?
I doubt the Ginny/Riddle possession was the same as the Quirrell/Voldemort connection. Voldemort waited to possess Quirrell until he failed to fulfill his orders. When he did possess Quirrell he did so physically, and Quirrell's ability to think/act was not hindered. Quirrell obeyed Voldemort because Voldemort had persuaded/convinced Quirrell that there was only power. Quirrell acted of his own will.
Meanwhile, Riddle began to possess Ginny emotionally and possessed her through her soul. Thus, her memory and nervous system was affected, which is why she had lapses in her memory:
"Are there big blank periods where you don't know what you've been up to?"
Harry racked his brains.
"No," he said.
"Then You-Know-Who hasn't ever possessed you," said Ginny simply. "When he did it to me, I couldn't remember what I'd been doing for hours at a time. I'd find myself somewhere and not know how I got there."
Here, Ginny talks about her type of possession, but I believe there are others (Quirrell/Voldemort is the perfect example, though this is more parasitic).
When Crabbe got locked into it (or GOyle?), he didn't use a password or anything.
Fred and George forced Montague into the Vanishing Cabinet in OotP. This is proof that the Cabinet does not require a password (or even the user's will). As long as the door is closed, the individual should vanish.
I was just wondering whether Harry had ever told Ron and Hermione about the Sorting Hat had considered putting him in Slytherin, had he told them in later life?
Once Harry got over his fear of being related to Slytherin and understood that he was a true Gryffindor (after CoS, basically), I am sure he would have told Hermione and Ron that the Sorting Hat almost put him in Slytherin if the subject arose.
Also, when Mrs. Norris was attacked, the trio went back to investigate, there where scorch marks....what were these from?
I was wondering about this as well (in fact, it is on my notepad of things to ask). To our knowledge, the basilisk cannot breathe fire, so it must have been Ginny who caused the scorch marks. Since I doubt Mrs. Norris was hanging by her tail on the torch bracket when she was petrified, Ginny had to attach her to it. Perhaps in her haste, the torch fell onto the ground, leaving scorch marks before she could pick it back up.

Once Harry got over his fear of being related to Slytherin and understood that he was a true Gryffindor (after CoS, basically), I am sure he would have told Hermione and Ron that the Sorting Hat almost put him in Slytherin if the subject arose.

I don't think he ever did tell Ron & Hermione. His reaction to Ron's words in CoS was quite strong, and we see at the end of the series that Ron still has a negative slant toward Slytherin. It's only Harry whose view has changed by the end. Here's the CoS quote from Chapter 9:

"I always knew Salazar Slytherin was a twisted old loony," Ron told Harry and Hermione as they fought their way through the teeming corridors at the end of the lesson to drop off their bags before dinner. "But I never knew he started all this pure-blood stuff. I woudn't be in his house if you paid me. Honestly, if the Sorting Hat had tried to put me in Slytherin, I'd've got the train straight back home...."

Hermione nodded fervently, but Harry didn't say anything. His stomach had just dropped unpleasantly.

Harry had never told Ron and Hermione that the Sorting Hat had seriously considered putting him in Slytherin. He could remember, as though it were yesterday, the small voice that had spoken in his ear when he'd placed the hat on his head the year before: You could be great, you know, it's all here in your head, and Slytherin would help you on the way to greatness, no doubt about that...

Harry finally brought himself to ask Dumbledore about it at the end of CoS, but only because his fear about it was so constant, and he knew Dumbledore wouldn't tell anyone else. But I'm not sure Harry ever felt comfortable telling Ron & Hermione -- after all, things became even more dark starting in GoF, with weird dreams and his scar beginning to act up more, and he learned to hide those things from Ron & Hermione because of the way they acted when he couldn't hide it or they noticed.

By the way, reading Harry's memory of the Sorting Hat's words in Chapter 9 made me notice a foreshadowing by JKR of the piece of soul in Harry's head -- the Hat says: "it's all here in your head".

Yes, I definately agree with you on this. With Ginny we also have to remember that she was basically being inhabited by a horcrux--the spell was specifically designed to do what it did which in itself makes it different from both Quirrel and Harry. The diary was an object that was created to impart a memory (which we later find out is really a bit of dismembered soul) into a host to control them and use them to unlock the Chamber of Secrets. Ginny was being possessed by an actual thing that was designed for the sole purpose of inhabiting and utterly controlling some innocent bystander.

Harry's possession was more like a dark magic spell from what I gather in OotP, it seemed to me like Voldemort was trying something he'd no doubt found in one of the ancient books like Hermione had in DH that she said were full of horrible stuff that only the worst wizards ever attempt. I mean it's completely different from Quirrel and Ginny because Voldemort was a living man, flesh and blood who was possessing Harry somehow. It makes me wonder whether his own body was still there or if he somehow dissolved and entered him like they portrayed in the movie (which honestly was a really weird scene...).

Now Quirrel, like you said BenGerman, hardly even counts as possession. It was more like being a host, or parasite. He didn't have any control of Quirrel by will, Quirrel was just a cowardly idiot that's all. And really Voldemort wasn't even able to use Quirrel's body at all. He just sat there on the back of Quirrel's body. The only advantage he gained was the ability to speak but other than that he was still just a pitiful lump of nothing.

I found your take on Harry's possession extremely interesting. I never thought of it as a spell as you said. I always assumed that Voldemort had just figured out the connection between him and Harry and had began to exploit what he could, and as we now know, he was trying to get to Dumbledore though this odd connection.

As far as the scorch marks xhanax I really think its just a good guess that Ginny dropped a torch or something like like. Mr. SleepyHeads guess would be a good bet, along with HedwigOwls which are similar. We have to assume that the scorch had nothing to do with the Basilisk, and everything to do with Ginny...

By the way, reading Harry's memory of the Sorting Hat's words in Chapter 9 made me notice a foreshadowing by JKR of the piece of soul in Harry's head -- the Hat says: "it's all here in your head".

Good catch, its tough to find stuff like this so early on in the books. I wonder if Jo meant this to be foreshadowing? I knew early on in the series that the Sorting Hat's words probably meant more than meets the eye if you get my drift;).

No. In DH Harry tells his son Albus that the Sorting Hat would take his feelings into account, and it says Harry hadn't ever told anyone about that before.
Actually, it says that Harry had never told any of his children about that before.
I don't think he ever did tell Ron & Hermione. His reaction to Ron's words in CoS was quite strong, and we see at the end of the series that Ron still has a negative slant toward Slytherin. It's only Harry whose view has changed by the end. Here's the CoS quote from Chapter 9:
This is why I doubt Harry would have told Ron or Hermione about it until after CoS (if he told them at all, it would be much later, perhaps even after Voldemort's downfall). He was ashamed and embarrassed by almost being made a Slytherin, so he certainly would not reveal it to anyone but Dumbledore at the age of twelve. I also doubt that Harry would ever tell Ron and Hermione about it out of the blue. He would only consider telling Ron and Hermione under the right circumstances.

However, I think Harry's embarrassment on the matter of almost being made a Slytherin diminished after learning of Snape's true character and of Voldemort's bit of soul in him. After he learns of this piece of soul he can justify being almost placed in Slytherin, since he has proven himself a true Gryffindor.
I wonder if Jo meant this to be foreshadowing?
I believe she did. JKR rarely includes tidbits like this that are only coincidences.

Actually, it says that Harry had never told any of his children about that before.
You're right, thanks.

This is why I doubt Harry would have told Ron or Hermione about it until after CoS (if he told them at all, it would be much later, perhaps even after Voldemort's downfall). He was ashamed and embarrassed by almost being made a Slytherin, so he certainly would not reveal it to anyone but Dumbledore at the age of twelve. I also doubt that Harry would ever tell Ron and Hermione about it out of the blue. He would only consider telling Ron and Hermione under the right circumstances.

However, I think Harry's embarrassment on the matter of almost being made a Slytherin diminished after learning of Snape's true character and of Voldemort's bit of soul in him. After he learns of this piece of soul he can justify being almost placed in Slytherin, since he has proven himself a true Gryffindor.
Agreed, however, only Harry's attitude had changed completely, it doesn't seem Ron's has -- even though we think Ron's kidding around, he keeps coming back to little comments when Hermione's not listening. I think Ron still has a problem with Slytherin, although clearly not as much as he used to.

You're right, thanks.


Agreed, however, only Harry's attitude had changed completely, it doesn't seem Ron's has -- even though we think Ron's kidding around, he keeps coming back to little comments when Hermione's not listening. I think Ron still has a problem with Slytherin, although clearly not as much as he used to.

Yeah I think he really had a grudge, because of what the Malfoys did to his family. I mean how could you really forgive someone who treated you so terribly for all of those years? I think it would definitely be tough, plus it seems in character if Ron IMO.

One last note about Chapter 9 as this is the last night...

We see Snape once again pinning the blame on Harry, Ron and Hermione, when really it was an unfair accusation without any proof IMO. So my question is, why does Snape seem to consistently attempt to get Harry thrown out of Hogwarts? Obviously as long as Dumbledore was still headmaster this would never happen, but it does seem to me that Snape's hatred for James almost out weighed his love for Lily. This is what it seems like to me so far, how about you guys? Do you think Snape was just playing his part in Dumbledores plan, or did Snape really want Harry thrown out?

If Snape's attempt to have Harry thrown out simply b/c of James, then I would say that his hate is stronger then his love.

If Snape's attempt to have Harry thrown out simply b/c of James, then I would say that his hate is stronger then his love.

Yeah I think thats the basic idea. We know that Snape loved one side of the Potters and hated the other. I think in some ways his Hate for James has outweighed his Love for Lily. Heres some things I wanted to point out that I've noticed so far...

His Hatred for James...

Constantly picking on Harry in Potions class. You can't see many signs of Harry being the child of the Women he loved.

Trying to get Harry thrown out of Hogwarts basically twice in CoS(When Ron and Harry entered the grounds on in the flying car, and when they are found at the scene of Ms. Norris)

His Love for Lily...

Saving Harry's life in SS/PS, during the Quidditch match.

Keeping an eye on Harry ever since he has been to Hogwarts.

So what I get from this is that while Snape is trying to keep Harry alive, he's also not making life easy for him. Does anyone have any ideas why he does this, Basing your answer on what we have read so far?

We see Snape once again pinning the blame on Harry, Ron and Hermione, when really it was an unfair accusation without any proof IMO. So my question is, why does Snape seem to consistently attempt to get Harry thrown out of Hogwarts? Obviously as long as Dumbledore was still headmaster this would never happen, but it does seem to me that Snape's hatred for James almost out weighed his love for Lily. This is what it seems like to me so far, how about you guys? Do you think Snape was just playing his part in Dumbledores plan, or did Snape really want Harry thrown out?

I don't think he expected that Harry would ever be thrown out. I do think Snape over-reacted with Harry because he looked so much like James, and I think Harry's green eyes upset him as well. Not only did that remind him of Lily, but that Snape's information made Voldy go after her in the first place, and Lily chose to die for Harry. All very difficult for Snape. And perhaps Snape was looking for someone to acknowledge that James and the Marauders treated him unfairly (ironically, Harry realizes that but he & Snape never speak of it). Stuck in the past in many ways, Snape.

i believe that is that is why too. Because Harry looked like his father. But had his mother's eyes. So every time he saw Harry he felt the hatred he had for James. And then at the same time felt the guilt he had for being the reason that Lily died. As you can see in DH when harry finds the other part of the picture in Sirus' room. then sees Snape ransacking the same room while crying i believe that shows how much he cared for Lily. So that would most likely be the reasons.
Also in DH in the memories of Snape you can easily tell that most likely Snape and Lily had being going out, or had an affair before she got with James.

I don't think he expected that Harry would ever be thrown out. I do think Snape over-reacted with Harry because he looked so much like James, and I think Harry's green eyes upset him as well. Not only did that remind him of Lily, but that Snape's information made Voldy go after her in the first place, and Lily chose to die for Harry. All very difficult for Snape. And perhaps Snape was looking for someone to acknowledge that James and the Marauders treated him unfairly (ironically, Harry realizes that but he & Snape never speak of it). Stuck in the past in many ways, Snape.

Yeah good point. I think it was sort of a shock to Snape how much of James Harry really had in him. Thats why I think we see less of the good side of Snape and more of the darker side of him. I think you make a good point in saying appearance is more of a factor towards Snapes loathing for Harry. I don't think that the constant getting into trouble, adventurous side of Harry ever really bothered him, and so far what we have read I see that he points it out that this was how he was so like James, and never really states how much he looks like him. Perhaps because it is just to painful for him?

I don't think he expected that Harry would ever be thrown out.
I agree. Snape knew that Dumbledore nor Minerva would not expel Harry, but he continuously pushed for it as a way to show his contempt.
I think you make a good point in saying appearance is more of a factor towards Snapes loathing for Harry.
I believe Harry's appearance was Snape's justifiable reason for loathing Harry. Snape more than likely hated Harry the second he knew he was born because he was a product of Lily's love for James (and not for Snape). Thus, while Harry's appearance was certainly a cause for Snape's hate, simply Harry's presence in the world was the underlying reason. In The Prince's Tale we see Snape list all the connections Harry has with his father. However, like Dumbledore, I believe Snape saw what he wanted to see in him. Even if Harry was the spitting image of Lily and nothing at all like his father, Snape would still loathe him.

One note on Chapter Seven, in regards to Ginny wandering around Hagrid's Hut. I find it interesting that there was a "half-plucked rooster" on his scrubbed table. While it may not have been by Ginny's hand (it is debatable why Hagrid would be plucking a chicken killed by an unknown cause), it is curious that the roosters' massacre had begun so quickly.

Now, I believe it is time to progress onto the next three chapters (I apologize if I am incorrect), so I have a couple of notes on chapter eleven (meaning only two):
One of the protective devices Neville bought for protection against the Heir of Slytherin was "a large, evil-smelling green onion." Could this be the infamous Gurdyroot that, according to Luna, wards off Gulping Plimpies?
I was surprised how Goyle's Swelling Solution actually worked (Harry's Filibuster Firework exploded in Goyle's potion, and those who were hit "began to swell like a balloon"), considering he and Crabbe are "stupider than they are mean."

all the reasons put forth for the hatred of Snape for Harry are perfectly stated and well supported. We would have a tough time saying which one is true. For all we know it could be both of them, or any of them how ever many there are!

this is so fun!
i havent been on here in forever.
stupid school.
but now its summer!

ill read that tonight.

I know this is behind where we are, but arent there scorch marks at every attack scene, so it couldnt have been a torch every time?

I don't know about those. I'm just lost at the moment. i have forgotten what we are talking about!

I know this is behind where we are, but arent there scorch marks at every attack scene, so it couldnt have been a torch every time?

Wow, I had no idea this happened in every attack. I for one am waiting to read my 3 chapters during saturday(I am taking a very long trip to Michigan so I may read the rest of the book:err:.). But I find it interesting that its at yet another crime scene, so obviously Jo must have meant it to mean something. What I do not know. I'm guessing we will figure out more during Riddle's speech of how is plan worked out so brilliantly(which I can't wait to revisit and discuss with you all, because as we all know it now has a much stronger connection to the future than we may have thought). I really don't have guesses as of right now, but it may even be explained at some point in the book, I wouldn't know.

Originally Posted by xhanax315
I know this is behind where we are, but arent there scorch marks at every attack scene, so it couldnt have been a torch every time?

Maybe the scorch marks are caused by the strength of the "power" that comes out of the Basilisk's eyes.

Maybe the scorch marks are caused by the strength of the "power" that comes out of the Basilisk's eyes. I heard a theory about, you dont by any chance know about the WWP, do you?

I heard a theory about, you dont by any chance know about the WWP, do you?

??? please share :)

??? please share :) The theory? Ill have to look it in my book.......

Its not really a theory, more an idea: "Although it is not explained, we presume the scorch marks under the water, the camera melting, and Nick turning smoky, were because of the intensity of the spell from the Basilisk's eyes. Could there be other eyes with that kind of power?" pg 128.

I know this is behind where we are, but arent there scorch marks at every attack scene, so it couldnt have been a torch every time?
Its not really a theory, more an idea: "Although it is not explained, we presume the scorch marks under the water, the camera melting, and Nick turning smoky, were because of the intensity of the spell from the Basilisk's eyes. Could there be other eyes with that kind of power?" pg 128.
While I agree that the basilisk's stare is what caused Colin's melting film and Nick's smoky appearance, we have no evidence that there are scorch marks at every scene. The only scene we see directly after the attack is Justin and Nearly Headless Nick. Harry only notices spiders on the ground and no scorch marks. Since we know of no scorch marks at this location, I believe we can assume that the burn marks at Mrs. Norris' attack scene were caused by Ginny.

Okay MrSleepyHead, if you say they were from Ginny, then theyre from Ginny.

Well I do think that it is odd that we hear of this scorching and it is indeed never explained. But I think it would have been explained had it been something to do with the Basilisk, as we find most of it's capabilities later on in the book, and as far as Ginny goes, Riddle never said anything about her with a torch as far as I can remember. So either are valid guesses but I just think that Jo never made it to be a big deal.

Now if it is Ok with everyone as I know we never really settled this scorch thing, but I'm assuming that when we read the end of the book, it may give us so more Ideas so we can revisit it at that point:). So i would like to bring up a few things about chapter, but as I said I'm taking a 10 hour car ride tomorrow, and I'll be reading the chapters in more depth than you can possibly think of:lol:.

*We have talked about this previously, but I really cracked up during the Dueling scene. I thought that Lockhart was hilarious(or Jo was for that matter), and Snape was also funny in his own rigid way.

*Did anyone else at first thought think it was a little harsh for everyone to immediately jump on Harry for speaking Parslemouth? This is where I really realized that Harry was a celebrity, because it is exactly what you see in today's magazines, people jump on everything before that have even give then person a chance at an explanation.

*I believe that Dumbledore once said he didn't even know everything that went on in the castle and all of its secrets. Do you think Dumbledore ever really knew who was behind the attacks? Or do you think this was really a time Tom Riddle was able to fool him? Because up until this point you do see Dumbledore almost at his weakest, I mean he really didn't have the power to do anything, and I think that did have an effect on why Riddle was able to make this plan work.