Aberforth Dumbledore -- the Hog's Head barman?

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pmb1290
June 23rd, 2003, 11:53 pm
I am fairly confident that the bartender of the Hog's Head is none other than Aberforth Dumbledore, Albus' brother. Prior to book 5, Aberforth was only mentioned once:

"Hagrid, look what I've got for relatives!" Harry said furiously. "Look at the Dursleys!"
"An excellent point," said Professor Dumbledore. "My own brother, Aberforth,was prosecuted for practicing inappropriate charms on a goat. It was all over the papers, but did Aberforth hide? No, he did not! He held his head high and went about his
business as usual! Of course, I'm not entirely sure he can read, so that may not have been bravery. . .."

This tells us that Aberforth has something to do with goats, isnt all that bright, and has a consistent job where he is out in the open.

I dont have the exact quote... once I get it, i will edit this... The Hog's Head is described as smelling like goats... The bartender is a grumpy old man, who is tall and thin, with long grey hair and beard, who is vaguely familiar to harry.

In my mind's eye, he looks exactly like Dumbledore, with grey hair instead of white. Of course he would look familiar to Harry...

It is unclear whether or not him and Dumbledore are on good terms... but looking at the quote from book 4, Dumbledore did speak kindly of him... If they are on good terms, Aberforth could be pretty helpful... we know that some pretty sketchy people go to the hogs head, so Aberforth would be a good spy to keep people alert of dark stuff.... and of Hagrids new, uh, purchases.

Anyhow... keep this in mind in future books. Im pretty confident that its aberforth.

Peter

Nickel
June 23rd, 2003, 11:55 pm
Wasn't Alberforth menitoned when Moody gave him the picture of the order?

Tsar
June 23rd, 2003, 11:56 pm
Yes Moody mentions that the picture taking was only time he ever met him

Nickel
June 23rd, 2003, 11:58 pm
Still he was in the picture with the Order, so he must have been a part of it somehow.

pineapple
June 24th, 2003, 12:01 am
If he was involved with the last Order, will he be involved with the new one?
Dumbledore spoke of him as if her were still alive, so I'm pretty sure he is.

Elina Makropulos
June 24th, 2003, 12:07 am
Isn't something mentioned about the bar smelling vaguely of goats?

pmb1290
June 24th, 2003, 12:11 am
Yeah... i said that it smelled like ghosts up there ^^^.

I must have ignored the bit about him being part of the order... in that case, i am very sure that Aberforth is spying on the suspicious people who go to the Hog's Head.... Useful guy...

Peter

Nickel
June 24th, 2003, 12:15 am
Nice Idea Pmb. Did Dumbledore ever mention anything else about him that I may have missed?

Silver Phoenix
June 24th, 2003, 12:20 am
Good points. I didn't think about it, but I was trying to figure out why the bartender looked familiar to Harry, it never really said. excellent observation. ^.^ The goat thing would sure tie it all in, as it has never been mentioned apart from this Aberforth character.

MagpieOnaga
June 24th, 2003, 12:54 am
Waah! I was going to start a whole new thread about the bartender, thinking I was the first person to point it out....darn!

Wonderful theory, though; I think I agree. Here are some quotes from book 5:

(p. 335 American version)"It was not at all like the Three Broomsticks, whose large bar gave an impression of gleaming warmth and cleanliness. The Hog's Head bar comprised one small, dingy, and very dirty room that smelled strongly of something that might have been goats."

(p. 336 American version)
"The barman sidled toward them out of a back room. He was a grumpy-looking old man with a great deal of long gray hair and beard. He was tall and thin and looked vaguely familiar to Harry.

'What?' He grunted.

'Three butterbeers, please,' said Hermione.

The man reached beneath the counter and pulled up three very dusty, very dirty bottles, which he slammed on the bar.

'Six sickles,' he said.

'I'll get them,' said Harry quickly, passing over the silver. The barman's eyes traveled over Harry, resting for a fraction of a second on his scar. Then he turned away and deposited Harry's money in an ancient wooden till whose drawer slid open automatically to recieve it."

Very curious. I filed that bit of information away in my brain, expecting to find out who he was later, but it never happened. I suppose we'll find out...

Runes
June 26th, 2003, 12:43 pm
When Harry first saw the Hog's Head barman, it says that he seemed vaguely familiar to him. Does that mean anything? The book tells us that the barman is tall and thin with a beard..

what do you think?

Isaraniel
June 26th, 2003, 12:57 pm
I immediately thought it was Aberforth Dumbledore, because he was described like Dumbledore but with grey hair. I thougt like 'Ha, found something! This is gonna be mentioned later and I've already noticed it!'
But it wasn't mentioned :(

Ame
June 26th, 2003, 1:00 pm
Don't be discouraged Isaraniel. It will probably come up in the next book. Albeit, you'll have to remember that bit of information. Book 5 came off as a set up for what's to come anyway, so a lot of things were sort of left unfinished. The BarMan at Hog's Head will come up again.

Maybe it was Dumbledore in disguise? I mean Hog's Head... it's too similar to Hogwarts Headmaster.

Isaraniel
June 26th, 2003, 1:03 pm
Hog's Head - Hogwarts Headmaster...
that's a good one :) But I still think it was Aberforth

Ame
June 26th, 2003, 1:06 pm
Yeah, you might be right. A similar to Albus but just not completely, it probably is him. Aberforth has been mentioned many times. That would explain the Hog's Head - Hogwarts Headmaster connection. Similar but not quite completely.

Aberforth
June 26th, 2003, 1:09 pm
Hog's Head = Howart's Headmaster..

Very good catch...

I hope it's Aberforth...for obvious reasons. :coolblue:

Moonstone
June 26th, 2003, 1:34 pm
Harry did see a photo of Aberforth, when Moody was showing him the old crowd's picture. That could also account for the barman looking familiar, if he was Aberforth.

dan_r
June 26th, 2003, 2:06 pm
I just love the way JK drops little bits into her books like that... you never know whether they are going to be important or not but its gives you chance to talk about them and come up with theories etc.

And you need to make sure you take in all these stublte little drops of information as there is a good chance it could lead to something important later on.... Thats one of the great things about the books

Daveydee
June 26th, 2003, 2:54 pm
...not only that, but whomever was eavesdropping on Dumbledore's first meeting with Sybil Trelawney was ejected from the Hog's Head fairly rapidly. Someone in the bar was clearly looking out for Dumbledore, on that day 16 years ago.

Something beginning to take shape here?

Kendra
June 26th, 2003, 3:02 pm
I actually wondered if the barman was Tonks this morning. I woke up, and thought suddenly it might be Tonks. But then I thought Dung wouldn't need to be there.

It'll come up in book 6 and 7. That screamed out of the page at me

Prof.Aze
June 26th, 2003, 3:07 pm
Very nice Isaraniel. I believe you. Because when JKR decribed him my mind was empty about the barman. I was keen to know how the meeting would go.

Nickel
June 26th, 2003, 4:37 pm
The several descret mentions of Alberforth have been bothering me. After we saw the picture I was sure he would make an appearance. Maybe he did and I just didn't realize it. It's a good point that the bartender threw out whoever was listening to the prophecy, because the bartender was looking out for Dumbledore.

Cat
June 26th, 2003, 4:49 pm
I think the pub is called the Hogs head for more obvious reason. Firstly, the name 'The Hogs Head' is a common pub name - I know a pub with that name myself. Secondly, it's appropriately called The Hogs Head because it's in Hogsmeade.

Perhaps it just mentioned the barman to distract you from the 'lady' at the bar.

Muggical Me
June 27th, 2003, 9:51 pm
I dunno... if JKR was just trying to distract us... why did it say that Harry thought the place smelled like goats? It could be another clue that it was actually Aberforth, since Aberforth was prosecuted for performing an inappropriate charm on a goat..

Kendra
June 27th, 2003, 10:11 pm
I wonder what charm- never mind, I don't know whether I want to know ;)

Yes but if it was to distract us from the witch why then did it say the witch was watching them later on? Also the fact Harry reconised him is odd. I'm considering re-reading the series looking out for him!

Hotmama2
June 27th, 2003, 10:55 pm
My vote says it is Alberforth.....and we shall see him in 6 and or 7.

Cat
June 27th, 2003, 10:57 pm
I don't see why Dumbledore would have failed to mention that his brother works at a local pub. Especially since he was talking to Hagrid when he mentioned his brother, and Hagrid goes to that particularly pub sometimes. Unless it was only decided afterwards by Ms Rowling that Aberforth should come into the books that way, then I think there's explaining to be done.

My first thought was that it might be one of Sirius' mulititude of relatives.

Earendil
June 27th, 2003, 11:03 pm
Aha! Interesting Aberforth-goats-Hog's Head connection.

I never even picked that up, but the "vaguely familiar" thing bothered me to no end, especially when she didn't follow up on it. Now that I think about it, it could very well have been Aberforth--we don't know where he is now, do we? If he was alive, he should still be in the Order: maybe he's on the run? How serious was that inappropriate goat charm anyway? :p

Cat
June 27th, 2003, 11:07 pm
Originally posted by Earendil (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=396884#post396884))
I never even picked that up, but the "vaguely familiar" thing bothered me to no end, especially when she didn't follow up on it. Now that I think about it, it could very well have been Aberforth--we don't know where he is now, do we? If he was alive, he should still be in the Order: maybe he's on the run? How serious was that inappropriate goat charm anyway?


Dumbledore would know where he is. The whole Order would know where he is, too. If it was him, he wouldn't exactly be hard to find, would he?

If it was him, he would have told them about Harry and Munundgus wouldn't have had to. Why did Ms Rowling put Mundungus there if she'd intended the barman to be Aberforth?

Also, I think it would have niggled Harry a bit more if it was Aberforth. Firstly, because if he looks anything like Dumbledore it would be noticeable. Harry sees Dumbledore quite often. Secondly, because he saw a picture at before September which had Aberforth on it.

vickygirl4
June 27th, 2003, 11:45 pm
Oh, I didn't even notice that! I need to go back and do a close read!

Pinkerton
June 27th, 2003, 11:51 pm
Meep, it's killing me now that people have brought it up here.. I remember when I first read it, I couldn't help but wonder /why/ he looked familiar to Harry.. but that would be interesting for Aberforth to really be the bartender. Hopefully we'll find out more about him in later books, eh :x

marspeach
June 28th, 2003, 1:53 am
I think it might have been Aberforth. I hope it is, so I could finally be right about something. I mean, from the way he's been described, I could totally see him being barman of the Hog's Head. But if it's somebody else, whatever. I would be only a little disappointed.

silveria
June 29th, 2003, 11:40 am
Here's something I picked up...it may be nothing, but hopefully it's some kind of clue. When Sirius was talking to Harry in the fire about Dung being at the Hog's Head in disguise, he said it was because "that barman has a long memory" or something to that effect. Does anyone have a long memory or am I reading into things too much?

Also, if it was Aberforth and Harry was capable of mild recognition, I am sure Hagrid (as a regular) would already know that. Who knows...

Runes
June 29th, 2003, 1:10 pm
Dumbledore once said that Aberforth wasn't able to read. Do you think he was just joking? But still, having the great Hogwarts Headmaster Dumbledore's brother to run a bar.. sounds weird.

Yasif
June 29th, 2003, 1:25 pm
Originally posted by Muggical Me (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=396673#post396673))
I dunno... if JKR was just trying to distract us... why did it say that Harry thought the place smelled like goats? It could be another clue that it was actually Aberforth, since Aberforth was prosecuted for performing an inappropriate charm on a goat..


That seals it right there, IMO. Too many links between the two guys for it not to be him :D

dumbleedore
June 30th, 2003, 1:25 pm
I never thought of this...

Aberforth could have been the one who interupted the listener to the prophecy, which was why he was with the order the day the picture was taken...

Kendra
July 2nd, 2003, 8:36 pm
Yes, but a slight problem here guys....

Aberforth is in the Order, so Is Dung, who incidently is barred from the Hogs head. He wouldn't bar Dung if it was Aberforth, and certainly would let him in to keep an eye on Harry at the moment if it is Aberforth.

I'm not saying it isn't; there are some excellent reasons and clues that it couls be. I just find this little thing offputting.

Weatherby
July 2nd, 2003, 8:40 pm
Perhaps he was one of the wizards Harry's bumped into in his past.
That's how we were introduced to Dedalus Diggle afterall.

I'd like it to be Aberforth. I know someone who wants to see more of him in the upcoming books. ;)

Daveydee
July 2nd, 2003, 8:45 pm
Helhorns - but Dung was disguised as a witch at the time, if I remember correctly.

phoenixsong
July 2nd, 2003, 8:45 pm
Do we know for sure that Aberforth is still in the Order? Was Dung in it last time? If the answer to both is "no", then it is possible that Aberforth only knows Dung as the person he caught eavesdropping 16...I mean 20 years before.

Kendra
July 2nd, 2003, 8:52 pm
Originally posted by Daveydee (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=414641#post414641))
Helhorns - but Dung was disguised as a witch at the time, if I remember correctly.


Exactly, illustrating my point greatly!
Why would he disguise himself if it was Aberforth? Why would Aberforth ban him completely if he was the barman considering they were both in the order!

dorcasderr
July 2nd, 2003, 9:00 pm
Also, just because two people are both in the Order doesn't mean they have to be friends...ie. Sirius and Snape. If the barman is Aberforth, his expelling Mundungus from the bar may not have anything to do with their both being in the Order. There are certainly enough other things about Mundungus to make him undesirable as a patron of one's bar.

Kendra
July 2nd, 2003, 9:12 pm
Don't forget who's aberforth's brother..DD. Aberforth would not expel someone who..

a) worked against Lord V
b) was in the order
c) his borther liked
d) who was following orders and was watching Harry.

Therefore Aberforth would not ban Dung that time, so if it was Aberforth there would be no need to go undercover.

phoenixsong
July 2nd, 2003, 9:21 pm
okay, I just checked, and Dung is not in the photo from the first Order, so isn't it possible that Aberforth could have chucked him out of the pub 20 years ago? Moody says of Aberforth in the picture that it was the only time he ever met him and that he was a strange fellow.

Kendra
July 2nd, 2003, 9:38 pm
It is possible of course, but why would it still be held? DD is likely to tell his brother that Dung is a member of the order and his reasons for being in the bar, so it still doesn't make sense.

phoenixsong
July 2nd, 2003, 11:10 pm
It is a very good point, Helhorns, assuming that Dung was at the Hog's Head on direct orders from the Order and Dumbledore, rather than simply reporting it to the Order after the fact. And we don't know Aberforth's current relationship with either Dumbledore or the Order.

I'm only trying to push this so hard because it seems really likely that the barkeeper is Aberforth, given the goat-smell, his description, and his vague familiarity to Harry. So how to reconcile Dung's disguise?

Alison
July 3rd, 2003, 12:29 am
I'msure that whole gaot thing is important to be a coincidence. However, I was personally confused when I found out Aberforth was even in the Order. Who wants an illiterate goat-charming wizard in their secret order? Well, obviously the guys own brother, but still...

The symbol of a goat is really weird too. I mean bad. Seperating the sheep from the goats... Oohh, weird. You know how Dumbledore always likes WOOL socks? OK, I'm getting carried away. But it's something to think about.

bubblesofdeath88
July 3rd, 2003, 1:38 am
I thought that it was very interesting that he seemed farmiliar. We will hopefull discover his full identity in later books.

Lestrange
July 3rd, 2003, 2:01 am
Helhorns, if the hate runs deep (for example, if Mundungus sold Aberforth some dodgy goats or something...) I could see Dumbledore just excepting the fact that they dislike eachother, and telling Aberforth to go in disguise. ...I can understand why they would need Dung there, though, if the barman is supposed to be spying on the Dumbledore's Army meeting, he would have been distracted having to serve drinks....and...being a barman, so maybe they needed another there.

Was Mundungus sent specifically there to spy on Harry and the others...?

Wagga Werewolf
July 3rd, 2003, 2:30 am
The other question is how did Mundungus know to be in the Hogs Head. I can't remember the plans being leaked - the Order obviously had many ways of keeping track of Harry

phoenixsong
July 3rd, 2003, 1:15 pm
Looking back over the passage where Moody shows Harry the picture, it does seem more strange that Aberforth is there at all, because Moody does say that it is the only time he ever met him, so it seems quite likely that he is not a regular member of the order at all.

But Dung does seem to have been in the Hog's Head on orders. The Order would have known the schedule for Hogsmeade visits and planned their surveillance accordingly.

The fact that Aberforth doesn't seem to be really in the Order makes is more possible that Dung may have been the one kicked out of the Hog's Head 16 years before, spying on Dumbledore and Trelawney.

Moonstone
July 3rd, 2003, 3:01 pm
Perhaps old Aberforth has been working deep undercover. Just like Mundungus picks up information from his criminal cohorts, Aberforth could do the same at the pub, which is described as rather unsavory and where many of the other Order members would look out of place.

I can not see Mundungus being the one who overheard Trelawney's first prediction, though. Why would he give that information to Voldemort? Whatever his faults, he does not seem to be sympathetic to Voldemort's cause. Besides, if Mundungus was banned twenty years before, what reason would he have to be in the pub sixteen years before, when Trelawney and Dumbledore met? he was only there in disguise in OotP to keep an eye on Harry, or in other workds, on official Order business.

dudemanthing
July 3rd, 2003, 5:34 pm
Aberforth, hmm. He wasn't mentioned as a real major character throughout the books...

Was it him who told the ministry about the D.A.? or was it someone else...

Starrlight
July 6th, 2003, 9:30 pm
Harry said he looked familiar, had long grey hair, and the place smelled like goats--didn't Dumbledore's brother get in trouble for doing something to goats?

Supreme
July 6th, 2003, 9:33 pm
It makes sense to me... You might be on to something. Good thinking chap ;)

Fairydust
July 6th, 2003, 9:41 pm
That would be pretty cool if he was Brian's brother. LoL.

Starrlight
July 6th, 2003, 9:45 pm
Whoops--sorry, didn't know there was already a thread! I was hoping to be the first...

DaN+EmMa
July 6th, 2003, 9:50 pm
whoa! your theory is great! i makes sense to me. hMm i think we're have to wait til the next book.

Alastor
July 8th, 2003, 7:03 am
Originally posted by dudemanthing (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?postid=418003#post418003))
Aberforth, hmm. He wasn't mentioned as a real major character throughout the books...

Was it him who told the ministry about the D.A.? or was it someone else...


That was Willy Widdershins.

I can't see why Dung's presense would be proof against the barman being Aberforth. Dung was able to concentrate on listening to the kids. the barman, having other duties, couldn't do that. He was also free to follow if the kids decided to move along. And having been thrown out 20 (not 16) years ago wasn't necessary his only reason for being in disquise. I don't think the order wanted Harry & co to know that they were watched.

Gandalf_the_White
July 8th, 2003, 7:24 am
Well the bartender has a long memory, Who in the book has a long memory? Well Ollivander remembers every wand he has ever sold. I doubt it is Ollivander seeing as he has wands to sell but they might be related, hence the great memory. Couldn't you see Ollivander's brother sitting there saying. "I was wondering when i would see you in here.... I remember when your Mom and Dad were in here buying their first butterbeer young Potter."

kfingers
July 9th, 2003, 1:37 pm
We don't hear Moody say anything about him when they are looking at the picture, except for that he is strange. When Dumbledore spoke of him, I cant remember whether he said he was alive or not. This conversation could be over before it starts if he did. I just can't remember where Dumbledore is in the books when he talks about him.

Picko
July 9th, 2003, 1:40 pm
Dumbledore talks about Aberforth in Chamber of Secrets if I remember correctly, he doesn't say anything about him being dead and when you combine that with what Moody said I'm thinking he's still alive.

LionHeart14
July 9th, 2003, 1:41 pm
I think he'll show up in either book 6 or 7, because I haven't come across any evidence that he is dead.

You-Know-Who
July 9th, 2003, 1:45 pm
Originally posted by Picko (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?postid=437419#post437419))
Dumbledore talks about Aberforth in Chamber of Secrets if I remember correctly, he doesn't say anything about him being dead and when you combine that with what Moody said I'm thinking he's still alive.


*cough*Goblet of Fire*cough*

But anyway he already has been mentioned twice in two different books, so it won't be a big surprise when he appears in book six or seven :)

kfingers
July 9th, 2003, 1:49 pm
I wonder if he is anything near as powerful as Dumbledore, and he used to be in the Order. The order is an intense section of the Harry Potter saga. So many being dead, so many epic battles.

Daveydee
July 9th, 2003, 2:01 pm
No- Aberforth is alive and well and working as a barman at The Hogs Head.

Click here to find out why:http://cosforums.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=395500#post395500

Ecthelion
July 9th, 2003, 2:07 pm
I dearly hope we get to meet Aberforth. He sounds like a combination of Mundungas and Dumbledore, which to me is a really entertaining character to say the least!

As to where he is.....well, the barman is one option. But as to the others....I think he is dealing in an obscure part of the Order of the Phoenix. Some part that only he can do properly, in which his occupation allows, sort of like Mundungas and Bill. I have complete confidence that we'll meet him some where along the line.

Llopin
July 9th, 2003, 2:17 pm
Well, I also hope we get to see more of him, as right now he's a mysteryous character, we know that's he's "strange" but we don't really know what does that mean. I don't think we have seen him yet. Also, being Dumbledore's brother, is Abertforth as old?

GryffindorSeeker
July 9th, 2003, 2:19 pm
Originally posted by Daveydee (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?postid=437489#post437489))
No- Aberforth is alive and well and working as a barman at The Hogs Head.

We don't know that for a fact. It's just a theory.

kfingers
July 9th, 2003, 2:20 pm
Originally posted by Daveydee (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?postid=437489#post437489))
No- Aberforth is alive and well and working as a barman at The Hogs Head.

Click here to find out why:http://cosforums.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=395500#post395500




OKAY....

It was the line in the HOGS HEAD, the first time I read it that made me think about Aberforth. The slightly familiar guy. I'm happy you brought that up, b/c that was what I was thinking might be the case.

Kneazle
July 9th, 2003, 2:36 pm
I'm going to merge this ("Is Aberforth dead?") with a previous thread called "Aberforth". :)

Edit: Also, I have merged the aforementioned "Aberforth" thread with one called "The Hog's Head barman" and retitled it "Aberforth Dumbledore = the Hog's Head barman?".


This bit about the barman completely escaped my notice, but indeed the theory does seem incredibly plausible. . .

kfingers
July 9th, 2003, 2:46 pm
Nice, I like the way I use the search and this whole thread never even comes up.

sfaist
July 9th, 2003, 3:07 pm
Even if Dung and Aberforth are both currently in the order, that doesn't mean Aberforth wouldn't bar him from his establishment. Heck, Mrs. Weasley wants to bar Dung from Grimmauld Place.

Anyway, I love the Aberforth bar theory. I think it has a lot of merit as I have been trying to figure out who detected the person listening in to the prophecy. Dumbledore gave no clue to that or who was listening. Both questions I think will be answered.

FredRocksMySocks
July 9th, 2003, 4:15 pm
Very interesting theory, and I think you're really onto something there...I'm going to have to re-read that bar scene a couple of times, but yeah, I think you've made a believer out of me! Thanks for the revelation!

hedwig7
July 10th, 2003, 8:11 am
Well done guys! Pretty Impressive Stuff!!! I sooo did not think of that when I first read the section but very good pick-up, and like some people were saying, not everybody in the Order would like each other... Very likely indeed

Slightly off-topic, Dumbledore would know either way (through Dung or his brother) about the DA and I'm very glad he didn't stop it

tree guardian
July 10th, 2003, 9:32 am
Great theory! Absolutely Love It!

Yes, I find it quite likely and just as humorous. :)

drummer
July 10th, 2003, 11:10 am
Originally posted by Alison (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?postid=415437#post415437))
I'msure that whole gaot thing is important to be a coincidence. However, I was personally confused when I found out Aberforth was even in the Order. Who wants an illiterate goat-charming wizard in their secret order? Well, obviously the guys own brother, but still...

The symbol of a goat is really weird too. I mean bad. Seperating the sheep from the goats... Oohh, weird. You know how Dumbledore always likes WOOL socks? OK, I'm getting carried away. But it's something to think about.


Good points! My guess is, if you needed someone to help transform some of the low-lifes to your side, who would be the best to do it? A clean cut guy or a guy who"appears" to be a real loser?

Alastor
July 11th, 2003, 2:40 am
If an unreliable crook like Dung fits into the Order, why not an illiterate goat-charmer? Btw we don't know for sure he´s illiterate.

Keikobad
July 11th, 2003, 3:32 am
"but did Aberforth hide? No, he did not! He held his head high and went about his
business as usual! Of course, I'm not entirely sure he can read, so that may not have been bravery. . .."

Of this extact can be deducted that Aberforth was brave only in the circumstances that he can read. Otherwise carrying his business about is just plain stupidity, according to DD's meaning. So his business must include danger ? And he might have wanted to avoid that danger had he been able to read and find out about it.

Ps. has there been a thread about Crookshank's possible identity and its role in the plot.

Alastor
July 11th, 2003, 3:55 pm
Originally posted by Keikobad (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?postid=443767#post443767))

Ps. has there been a thread about Crookshank's possible identity and its role in the plot.


Yes! Try one in the Great Hall named 'Crookshanks'. And there seems to be two new threads here. 'Who is Crookshanks?' and 'Crookshanks' True Identity' Brobably both closed already. You need to browse a little to find them because a search for 'Crookshanks' will give you almost as many pages.

Aberforth D
July 11th, 2003, 6:46 pm
You are all correct... I AM the Barman at the Hog's Head... good job... you caught me... Albus is going to have a hissy fit...

ultimate sacrifice
July 11th, 2003, 7:37 pm
Alastor D, are you insinuating that Aberforth is an animagus and he is crookshanks?

Alastor
July 12th, 2003, 2:48 am
Originally posted by ultimate sacrifice (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?postid=445668#post445668))
Alastor D, are you insinuating that Aberforth is an animagus and he is crookshanks?


I'm definitely not insinuating that!! I don't believe in those 'everyone is an animagus' theories. I was only answering Keikobad's off topic question.

What makes me suspicious about Aberforth = the barman is that it seems a bit too obvious. JKR may have, once again, a surprise in store for us there.

dage8_8
July 12th, 2003, 6:05 am
I have never thought about Hog's Head too much, but now that you bring it up it does seem to make sense that Aberforth is the barman.

the answer
July 23rd, 2003, 1:09 am
moody also showed harry a picture with aberforth mabey harry will remember who the familliar bartender is in a future book

Falcon121
July 23rd, 2003, 7:51 am
Hang On!

Maybe my memory is failing me but,wasn't it the Bartender that told Umbridge about it the DA's first meeting resulting in the introduction of Education Decree No.26(or issit 25??),if he was Aberforth why would he tell Umbridge???

Sorry if I've got my facts mixed up...but i'm pretty sure of it...if i'm wrong do tell me how Umbridge found out about the DA...

phoenixsong
July 23rd, 2003, 8:00 am
Originally posted by Falcon121 (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?postid=477814#post477814))
Hang On!

Maybe my memory is failing me but,wasn't it the Bartender that told Umbridge about it the DA's first meeting resulting in the introduction of Education Decree No.26(or issit 25??),if he was Aberforth why would he tell Umbridge???

According to Umbridge, it was Willy Widdershins, who was the guy all wrapped up in bandages, who gave her the info in exchange for getting off his criminal charges at the MoM.

Gillyweed
July 24th, 2003, 11:43 pm
I would like to suggest that the "Marauders Map" shows a passage out of Hogswart which is mentioned as "blocked" several times. What if it is only jinxed to appear blocked by Albus Dumbledore, and it's a passage to Hogs Head. If the barman is Albus's brother, he might allow Dumbledore to hide-out at Hogs Head and still be close to Hogswart in case of an emergency.

ultimate sacrifice
July 24th, 2003, 11:53 pm
Does anyone know of any mythological or historical or literary characters with the name of Aberforth? Do we know what Aberforth means or translates into or anything like that????

He was punished by the MOM for practicing Jinx's on goats right? So does that mean they took his wand like they were going to do with Harry at the beginning of OotP?

Heen05
July 25th, 2003, 12:05 am
if it was aberforth then mundungus wouldnt be banned.being part of the order and all

ultimate sacrifice
July 25th, 2003, 12:52 am
Why is he banned from the Hogs Head? (Mundungus). I can't remember.
Heen, I don't think I understand what you meant in your post. Please explain further.

Thanks!

Andromeda
July 25th, 2003, 9:05 am
Nice thread pmb! Iwas going to ut it up myself if no one else did!

I tried to look up Aberforth as two separate words, but i got nothing. It may be just a made up name.

Sirius Padfoot
July 25th, 2003, 5:37 pm
The theory that Aberforth is the bar keeper at the Hogs Head is a great one. He would be close enough for Albus to keep in touch with him, yet not be on the Hogwarts grounds. Harry did say he looked familiar. He also looked at Harry like he knew him. Could Aberforth be a related to Harry through James??

preludetoadream
July 26th, 2003, 5:57 am
Interesting catch I didn't notice the goat thing to be honest. Even if he isn't the bar tender I'm sure we will one day see him his name's been dropped a few times and he was once in the order.

Alastor
July 27th, 2003, 2:35 am
Nice thread pmb! Iwas going to ut it up myself if no one else did!

I tried to look up Aberforth as two separate words, but i got nothing. It may be just a made up name.

There is a place with that name. Nowadays spelled Aberford.
Obviously it's originally made of two separate words. There are lots of places named Abersomething.

FredRocksMySocks
July 27th, 2003, 2:49 am
Feel free to hex me if this was already talk about, as I didn't look, but you know how Dung was banned, and so was the DE that spied on Trelawny and DD that prophecy night.... What if Dung was once a DE?
Eh, I don't really believe it, but it's an interesting coincidence.

MadMagic
July 27th, 2003, 6:56 pm
Are we certain that it was a DE who spied on Dumbledore and Trewlaney. It could have been just someone out to make some money.

Hestia
August 12th, 2003, 11:33 pm
The idea that Aberforth is the barman seems very logical to me. It makes sense that he would be the one to throw out the eavesdropper on Trelawney and he is described very similarly to Dumbledore tall thin and long haired. We can assume that as brothers they would look something alike. Plus Dumbledore says that he doesnt know that his brother can read and seems to doubt his intelligence, and as a bartender theres no real need for higher education or reading. He and Mungdungus would both be there because Mungdungus is unreliable and someone needs to keep an eye on him. The flaw in this theory is that in SS Hagrid gets the dragons egg from Voldemort and tells Voldemort about how to get past Fluffy to the stone. One would assume that if Aberforth was looking out for his brother and spying on his patrons he would have told dumbledore what happened. But maybe not..... Plus shes setting us up for it to be Aberforth so maybe shes trying to throw us slightly off track. Although if I were her Id definitely be messing with us crazy fans and just make him be a regular bartender and nothing else.

rons-lover
August 13th, 2003, 12:47 am
I like that idea, it could be Aberforth, but then maybe not? I guess we'll find out in the future the books....

But I have no doubt he'll show up somewhere if he's not the Hogshead bartender. :D

Hestia
August 14th, 2003, 4:39 am
Just FYI I dont know if its of importance or not but Aber,aberro means to wander, deviate or escape. Kinda fitting since he strays from the norm a bit.

shanobyl
August 14th, 2003, 11:31 am
good point about hog's head = hogwarts headmaster

it may or may not be aberforth but let's say it is, maybe.. he's showing his support for dumbledore by naming his pub like that?

ringpop
August 14th, 2003, 11:53 pm
This is an AWESOME thread! Very possible! I'm entirely convinced!

A couple of quick points:
1)Isn't it pheasable that Aberforth is not part of the order? He can just be working at the bar and occasionally DD asks for his help, & being, of course, that they're brothers, Aberforth goes along with it? He doesn't have to be a full fledged member. And it doesn't necessarily mean he is put there for the sole purpose of being a spy. Thoughts?
2)Going w/ the "not part of the order" theory, that could be why he banned Dung. He might not know he's part of the order or he might not care.
3)If he is part of the order, he probably kicked Dung out so it would look normal and not suspicious. Explanation: Dung is obviously not very popular and does thing to tick people off. Wouldn't it be too obvious if Aberforth let him stay?
4)About Hagrid and the dragon's egg: If he wasn't part of the order per se, he wouldn't be spending all his time spying. Or, knowing Hagrid, he didn't want to spy on him when all he was "supposedly" doing is drinking and playing cards. It seems perfectly innocent.

I don't know if any of that makes sense. What do you think?

Ollivander
August 15th, 2003, 12:25 am
Thats a very very good find pmb1290... ill have to look about the books before i respond..

Hully
August 15th, 2003, 1:00 am
really good theory- and if the bartender is Aberforth he is illitertate so he wouldnt write to the order so he would need to be close to dumbledore to report

Gandalf_the_White
August 15th, 2003, 5:35 am
The Barman is none other than Ollivander's brother, hence the long memory, JKR is just trying to fool us with the goat thing. :)

Hpmons
August 15th, 2003, 3:36 pm
Lol, Aberforth is the barman, now hes Ollivanders brother...

I do love the thoeries though, and I think that Harry probably has seen Aberforth at some point.

Isnt is curious that although he was part of the old Order, he is never mentioned as being in it currently? And I do think that there is something important about the fact that the eavesdropper was thrown out, reguardless of whethe rit was Aberforth who was the bartender or not.

silver ink pot
August 15th, 2003, 3:38 pm
Gillyweed wrote, and I agree :agree: :

I would like to suggest that the "Marauders Map" shows a passage out of Hogswart which is mentioned as "blocked" several times. What if it is only jinxed to appear blocked by Albus Dumbledore, and it's a passage to Hogs Head. If the barman is Albus's brother, he might allow Dumbledore to hide-out at Hogs Head and still be close to Hogswart in case of an emergency.

What if this is a passage out of Hogwarts? Or maybe it's a place to hide in case Hogwarts is somehow occupied during a war? Or maybe it is a place where "secret weapons" are stored. I think the Hogshead has some secrets because, after all, it is where Dumbledore says he heard the prophecy. And there could be more.

I have a theory I have been kicking around about Aberforth. And it has to do with goats and a stone called a bezoar. I searched for a thread about this, but couldn't find one. I was going to start a new thread but this is as good a place as any to throw it out there. I think Aberforth might be more important than we think.

In the very first book, the very first potions class, Snape's very first question to Harry is "Where would you find a bezoar?" And of course, Harry doesn't know. So Snape tells him it is found in the stomach of a goat and can protect you from poisoning. Why is that important?

I only recently discovered that bezoars are real things and at one time were as precious as gold or rubies. Here is some information:

http://www.melfisher.org/bezoar.htm

To be a person of status in the seventeenth century was to be exposed to the jealousies and resentments of others eager to climb the social ladder by whatever means necessary, including murder. Royalty, politicians, and the wealthy had to be aware of plots to destroy them, and take the necessary precautions if they wanted to protect themselves . . .

Many persons of status accepted potential poisoning as a chronic threat and armed themselves for battle against it.

Because wine and other drinks were often laced with arsenic, the most popular poison of the period, many magical devices were employed to negate its deleterious effects before it was consumed. Amethyst, crushed emerald and "unicorn horn" (often narwhal tusk) were all immersed in suspect beverages in the belief that they would render them safe.

The most common and effective of these amulets was the bezoar stone. Bezoars are the gall stones of calcium and hair found in the alimentary tracts of ruminants such as deer, sheep, llamas and antelope. The original bezoars came from goats found in the mountains of Western Persia. They were introduced to Europe from the Middle East sometime in the 11th century, and they remained popular there until the 18th century.

Bezoars were rare, and . . . power and esteem . . . was ascribed to them. The most spectacular item to reflect this belief is the gold "poison" cup, which once held a permanently mounted bezoar in its interior to absorb the poison from any drink it may have held. Another, chicken-egg sized bezoar is beautifully mounted in an engraved and enameled gold framework that was apparently designed to be suspended from a chain. This stone could then be immersed in any drinking vessel to remove toxins.

I read somewhere else that a bezoar is mainly effective against arsenic, which has always been a common poison. The hair in the bezoar somehow chemically reacts with the arsenic, rendering it safe to drink. Isn't that wild? But it is supposedly true.

Now, my other theory is that somehow Snape is associated with Aberforth. Why? Number one is the bezoar quote above. Number two is Snape's speech about "bottling fame, brewing glory, and putting a stopper in death." He could be talking about any number of potions, but doesn't he sound like someone who used to work in a brewery? :lol: Of course, Snape is alot cleaner than Aberforth, but you don't have to be clean to work with goat stomachs.

So my thinking is that Aberforth's experiments on goats might have had to do with bezoars. If you could make goats produce alot of bezoars, or could extract them without killing the goat - through magic, perhaps - you could protect alot of people from poisoning by enemies. That would be of great importance to the Order!

So, what do you think?

phoenixsong
August 15th, 2003, 3:51 pm
Nice research on bezoars, silver ink pot! I definitely think that we will see one eventually, perhaps as an antidote to one of those "indetectable poisons" that Harry had to write about for Potions. I know you also read the "Neville, Voldemort and a LOT of gum" thread, so perhaps the bezoar might be involved in restoring the Longbottoms mental health, if indeed they are being poisoned as some suspect.

However, I think it is important to bear in mind that Moody said, when discussing the picture from the first Order, that he had only ever met Aberforth once, so I'm not really certain that he was a true participant in the first Order. And if he is in the present-day Order, then the Order wouldn't have had to send Mundungus to the Hog's Head to spy on Harry, would they? And I'm not even really sure how close Albus and Aberforth are, since when Albus was discussing the case of Aberforth and the goats, didn't he say "I'm not certain he can read, so that might not have been bravery..."

silver ink pot
August 15th, 2003, 5:20 pm
phoenixsong: I've been thinking about what Moody said, as well. I think it is a little odd that Moody never met him if he is right there in Hogsmeade! :huh: Really, all Harry says about the barman is that he is tall and looks vaguely familiar. He never says he looks like Dumbledore, and Dumbledore never said that Aberforth lived nearby. Sooooooooo, I have no clue. :rolleyes:

Still, I think all the theories about the Hogshead being connected to Hogwarts might be true.

Ok, now Harry needs to trot off to Hagrid's Hut and ask him who the barman at the Hogshead is. I wish Harry would ask his own questions for a change, instead of us having to think them up for him! :elaugh:

ultimate sacrifice
August 15th, 2003, 11:28 pm
Oh my goodness, the bezoars research was terrific! Thank you Silver Ink Pot! We can really learn alot on these threads and I would have never remembered Snapes question to Harry in the first class. You have me convinced that we'll be hearing more about all of this in these last two books!

Good Stuff, Thanks!

Moonlight
September 12th, 2003, 9:23 am
I agree about Aberforth being the bar keeper.

In GoF, Dumbledore says Aberforth can't read.

Maybe he's uneducated and that's why the Hog's Head is so filthy? He doesn't know about hygein.

Drusilla
September 12th, 2003, 11:14 am
Harry probably thought he was familiar because he'd seen him in Moody's photograph of the original Order of the Phoenix.ANYONE AGREE?

Prof.Aze
September 12th, 2003, 2:45 pm
Yup i agree with you Drusilla.

But i didn't remember Dumbledore saying that Aberforth can't read. :blush: I must be forgetting about the books already. I think i have to read everything again. :)

cruplover
September 12th, 2003, 5:43 pm
Great research, Silver Ink Pot! I think that means that goats and their stones have some later significance. As for the barkeep, I don't know who he is. Aberforth may or may not be in the Order now, but I don't know that he would have been in the photo if he wasn't a member of the original Order. Plus, the way Moody was giving information, would he have told Harry that he was DD's brother, but he wasn't really in the Order?

silver ink pot
September 13th, 2003, 3:37 am
I just re-read most of this thread and had a little idea. Maybe I have seen too many old movies about spies, but one disguise that always works is to appear to be mentally challenged. What if Aberforth isn't slow at all? What if he is just a really good actor, and keeps a low profile in this dive of a pub so the local riff-raff will feel free to come there? And the dirty glasses and floor are just "atmosphere" to make it appear that he is an idiot, but really he is as smart as Dumbledore?

I know that sounds crazy. :whistle: ;) But as I say, I've seen alot of old movies in which a genius character masquarades as a janitor. Think of an undercover cop. He gives reports regularly to Dumbledore. He keeps his ears open.

rotsiepots
September 13th, 2003, 5:08 am
I don't understand why people assume that "Aberforth" (aka the Hogshead barman) is simple-minded. Being literate isn't the finite judgment of intellectual ability.

Maybe he's just a more extreme version of his brother; that is a completely eccentric, mostly potty, old bat. ;)

Fairydust
September 13th, 2003, 5:18 am
Heh. It makes me wonder though. Sgouldn't Aberforth know how to read? I mean, how did he pass school if he couldn't? Or is it that he's really good at everything practical and it doesn't matter if he can read or not? It just doesn't make sense.

thesnitch_and_you
September 13th, 2003, 5:56 am
silver ink pot - I like your idea that Aberforth could be masking some intellegence. All intellagence is not book smarts. Mabey Dumbledore was exaggerating on that comment that his brother could barely read. Aberforth might be just be street smart, introverted, or just happy running his little bar. He could be feeding his brother info about the things he hears there -- and drunks do tend to talk. Also, Mad -eye said he was strange or something to that effect, I believe? Possibley because he is the polar opposite of dumbledore? Are they twins or just regular brothers, by the way?

Fairydust
September 13th, 2003, 6:41 am
It's mentioned in the book that the barman reminded Harry od someone. Most likely Dumbledore. If they do look alike I wouldn't be surprised if they were twins or something to the like.

rotsiepots
September 13th, 2003, 8:24 am
Heh. It makes me wonder though. Sgouldn't Aberforth know how to read? I mean, how did he pass school if he couldn't? Or is it that he's really good at everything practical and it doesn't matter if he can read or not? It just doesn't make sense.
Maybe he chooses not to read?

He seems rather eccentric, so perhaps he shunned mainstream literacy. I'm sure he can still communicate in some written form, even if it's just hieroglyphics and stick figures. ;)

hesdead-dealwithit
September 14th, 2003, 6:01 am
Maybe he chooses not to read?

He seems rather eccentric, so perhaps he shunned mainstream literacy. I'm sure he can still communicate in some written form, even if it's just hieroglyphics and stick figures. ;)

Could be. I mean, it seems that wizards just naturally have the ability to read, because they don't go to Muggle school. Maybe their parents teach them, but I'm not sure.

Alastor
September 14th, 2003, 7:49 am
It seems many of us consider it an established fact that he can't read. It isn't. The only thing we know is that Dumbledore said "...,I'm not entirely sure he can read,...". (GoF chapter 24). But of course one would expect him to know his own brother well enough to know for sure....

thesnitch_and_you
September 14th, 2003, 5:12 pm
This sarcasm on Dumbledores part is mainly the reason why I think that his brother is like a polar opposite to him. Mabey Aberforth was like a fred or george weasley in school, just a goof -off out to have fun, while his brother was studious and ends up as head master. Aberforth could be good and willing to help out in a pinch, but mostly just wants to hang out and do his own thing.

padfoot_dawg
September 14th, 2003, 5:47 pm
Do wizards naturaly have the ability to read? Or maybe only some do.... But hey, maybe a few are just dumb, or something like that. Or if my theories wrong, he might of chose not to read. I'm not completley sure though.

Moonlight
September 15th, 2003, 9:33 am
What if Aberforth isn't slow at all? What if he is just a really good actor, and keeps a low profile in this dive of a pub so the local riff-raff will feel free to come there? And the dirty glasses and floor are just "atmosphere" to make it appear that he is an idiot, but really he is as smart as Dumbledore?


Hm...I rather like that idea.
And he is in a very good position to listen to any news...

If he is Aberforth, do you think people know he is?

Padfoot127
October 3rd, 2003, 8:46 pm
AHH! You're smart! I though it might have been Dumbledore, but your idea makes way more sense. It probably was him, and then Mundungus probably recognised him in the bar but didn't say anything because didn't the bartender get in a fight with him? And that's why he was in the witch's outfit with a veil? And that's how Dumbledore know about that?

harp230
November 4th, 2003, 3:45 am
Well, consider the time that Aberforth went to school. He would be about 150 years now. education was not what it is now. Maybe he went to school little if at all when he was young, in 18whatever. and never learned to read9 if that is the case). For that matter who says his wonderfully intellegent brother learned to read that early either? What if our beloved professor didn't either until recently( like withing the last 100 years?)

HOPE
November 4th, 2003, 10:31 am
i think it is Aberforth, and that he works at the Hog's Head long term undercover, i mean would members of the Order go round telling Harry that the Aberforth is a barman? not likely, he would need to keeps his cover

as for not being able to Read, what if he just can't read English? Aberforth reminds me of a Welsh sounding name....

GlassRoses314
November 5th, 2003, 9:29 am
I think it's probably Aberforth as well. Esp. if Harry saw him in the pic before he went to the Hog's Head.

Hey, I just thought of something...

What if it was Mundungus who overheard the prophecy all those years ago and was thrown out. And now Dumbledore's invited him to join the Order so as not to be a threat. Of course all this could just be washed down the drain if I could remember weather or not Mundungus was a part of the original OotP?

loopy123loo
November 5th, 2003, 6:39 pm
Hey!
I'm not sure if this is entirely plausible but it answers a lot of questions about why Dung was incognito if Aberforth was already there. If A. had an important job which DD didn't want Harry to know about (remember he was told nothing about the prophesy) isn't it possible that he told Sirius to TELL Harry that Dung was there as a witch when really it wasn't at all? I also think "That barkeeper has a long memory" was sort of a private joke for Sirius and is a clue about what Aberforth is doing...........

Azimuth
November 5th, 2003, 6:55 pm
Well done pmb1290 this theory makes perfect sense! I really do think that Aberforth is the Hog's Head barman. It explains the feeling that Harry had seen him before, which will certainly be touched upon in the future two books. :agree:

Jill
November 5th, 2003, 7:19 pm
Well done pmb1290 this theory makes perfect sense! I really do think that Aberforth is the Hog's Head barman. It explains the feeling that Harry had seen him before, which will certainly be touched upon in the future two books. :agree:

Yes I agree, it makes good sense to have someone watching out for any sign of trouble in Hogsmade. Aberforth is probably the Hog's Head barman for a very good reason. He could be there to warn Dumbledore of any advancement made by Voldermort on the school from Hogsmade. Almost like a look out gaurd. That might explain why he doesn't keep the bar that clean because that is only a cover for what he is really there for. I think Aberforth is Dumbledores eyes and ears for just outside the Hogwarts grounds. If Harry recognised him because he has a painted picture (which we know painted pictures of wizards tend to be made for only the noblest or greatest wizards at Hogwarts, well thats what I thought) then Aberforth is important to both Dumbledore and the school.

dobby_rocks
November 7th, 2003, 11:08 am
i think he is on account that Dumbldore heard the prophecy there, there was a spy, who they caught and threw out. How could he have thrown someone out of a public bar, unless he was close or related to the owner

swishandflick
November 8th, 2003, 8:01 am
I think that it most likely is Aberforth. Even if Aberforth knew that Dung was working for the order, Aberforth might have a personal reason for not trusting Dung. Sirius said that Dumbledore helped Dung "out of a tight spot once" so maybe this has something to do with Aberforth? Maybe DD forgave Dung for something that he did and then had to convince Aberforth to trust Dung as well.

Auror1
November 9th, 2003, 1:30 pm
[SS Hagrid gets the dragons egg from Voldemort and tells Voldemort about how to get past Fluffy to the stone.]
Voldemort was riding on Professor Quirrells head at the time. And Quirell was disguised. HAgrid didn't realize he was letting someone else know.

And how would Aberfoth know Voldemort was in hiding like that anyway. Would anyone go up o someone and say " please remove your turban so I can see if you know who is hiding under there?" :rotfl:

persian85033
November 9th, 2003, 7:31 pm
Didn't he meet Trelawney in the Hog's Head? And he said that when she was saying the prophecy, the perosn that was eavesdropping on them got kicked out, so I guess that that would also be a reason for the barman to be Dumbledore's brother. He would throw someone out of his bar if his brother was disgussing something important, and private, wouldn't he? And if he is Dumbledore's brother would he really sell Ron, Harry, Hermione, or any of the other students anything? Like the whisky or whatever that Ron wanted to buy?

Windstar
November 13th, 2003, 3:58 am
This makes sense. I don't think he would sell the kids anything because first, he seems to ruff to do that. Like he wouldn't even want kids hanging out there in the first place.
It would give him the perfect opportunities to eavesdrop on other "private" conversations that could be beneficial to Dumbledore and his cause.
Makes sense to me!

jordmundt6
November 19th, 2003, 1:25 am
I FINALLY get why this is so popular. He was a talll, thin, old man with long gray hair who looked somehow familiar to Harry. I find it odd that Dumbledore would allow his younger brother to keep such a pigsty of a place, even Tom (owner of the Leaky Cauldron) would have frowned on its squalor. If this does hold true, man what a difference in attitude between the brothers. A parallel but to the Evans or Black sisters but to a much lesser extent (thankfully).

By the way, how does one keep the books for a bar if one cannot read?:elaugh:

But we know he was in the Order, so he can't have been a total black sheep. But how would you like to grow up with an older brother like Albus Dumbledore?:D Man talk about living in a sibling's shadow.:D Whew!

Windstar
November 19th, 2003, 4:02 am
I don't know about you, but I can not control how my siblings choose to live. I mean, I can't tell them that their house is messy they should clean it up anymore than Dumbledore could demand that his brother clean up his bar.

It would be tough living in Dumbledore's shadow, but I think that his brother seems like the type that would take it all in stride. He does what he wants to anyway type of a person.

harp230
November 19th, 2003, 4:22 am
Our beloved Proffessor doesn't seem too much like a person who forces others to behave a certian way. He takes the possibility that his brother may not even read pretty lightly... He accepts that there are just some things he can not change....

Windstar
November 19th, 2003, 4:37 am
I agree completely. Just take Hagrid as an example. Dumbledore has never told him how to behave or how tidy to keep his house. Nor has he said anything about the state of it when he has visited there.
I also agree that his brother could be the bar keep at Hogshead. It makes sense. That's why he seems familiar to Harry.
I think he would still be loyal to Dumbledore though. I don't think that he is on the bad side at all.
I imagine that he cares for Dumbledore just like Dumbledore cares for everyone else.
They must have had some pretty good parents, eh?

harp230
November 19th, 2003, 4:44 am
Aberforth reminds me of a Mundungus type character( which assuming we have found aberforth; those two do not get along too well). Not that aberforth is a crook, but just a general weirdo. Mundungus though he is a total crook, is is somehow trustworthy and likeable enough( Well unless you are Mrs. Weasley). Aberforth is a weirdo, a likeable weirdo.... if that makes any sence.

jordmundt6
November 19th, 2003, 4:57 am
Well, I guess you'd call him a free spirit. Didn't Moody think the guy was strange? Now I'd love to see the person so exotic that Alastor thinks he's odd. I guess the Hog's Head isn't so much about running the business as having his own little niche.:D I think some of the same slack gets given to Mundungus but I don't think Aberforth is anywhere near that line.

harp230
November 19th, 2003, 5:06 am
My idea is that aberforth is as much of a weirdo as Mundungus is a crook. Not to say that Aberforth and Mundungus are anything alike. I have had the same thought that Aberforth must be quite odd if Moody thinks he is weird.

Windstar
November 19th, 2003, 5:08 am
That could be true, but it wouldn't matter to Dumbledore.
Dumbledore befriends everyone, no matter what. He gives everyone a fair chance.

jordmundt6
November 19th, 2003, 5:11 am
Dung is a crook, but he's generally a goodhearted soul and he's got some talent to boot. He's not going anywhere.

I see no evidence that Aberforth is shady just that he's a bit rough around the edges and eccentric (well the eccentric thing seems to be a family trait now doesn't it?:D)

harp230
November 19th, 2003, 5:33 am
Now I never said he was shady. I said he was a wierdo. i said both of them were likeable....

jordmundt6
November 19th, 2003, 5:35 am
Sorry, that was just a misread on my part. Yes, Aberforth has to be a pretty unique fellow to strike Moody as odd, doesn't he?:D Wonder what it was about him that provoked that assessment from a man who wears a false magical eye.

harp230
November 19th, 2003, 5:40 am
That has been my question. Maybe he was a aware of the goat thing.... But i am sure it is a general impression. But considering being eccentric is a family trait. It is probally an overall impression too.

ultimate sacrifice
November 19th, 2003, 5:54 am
That could be true, but it wouldn't matter to Dumbledore.
Dumbledore befriends everyone, no matter what. He gives everyone a fair chance.

I agree, Dumbleore is very adept at "not judging". For now, I agree that Aberforth is eccentric and quirky. I hope he is a spy for the Order of the Phoenix, though!

What's that spell or whatever that he lost his wand over, the thing he can do with a goat or something? Doesn't that spell seem to make you think that he will be useful in the future for Harry or the Order of the Phoenix? What is that thing he does with a goat??? I can't remember and I'm too lazy to go upstairs and look it up in the book.

harp230
November 19th, 2003, 5:59 am
From GOF concerning Hagrid being upset about being a half-giant



"An excellent point," said Professor Dumbledore. "My own brother, Aberforth, was prosecuted for practicing inappropriate charms on a goat. It was all over the papers, but did Aberforth hide? No, he did not! He held his head high and went about his business as usual! Of course, I'm not entirely sure he can read, so that may not have been bravery. . .."

jordmundt6
November 19th, 2003, 7:05 am
Which brings me back to my earlier question. How does one maintain a bar business and keep the books if one is illiterate? :huh:

Well that's not really important. Nah, he just seems eccentric and eager to experiment. Anyone got Moody's OotP quote about him (it'll be in the section with the Order photograph).

GlassRoses314
November 19th, 2003, 10:05 am
Where does it say he's a book keeper?

Alastor
November 19th, 2003, 3:13 pm
Anyone got Moody's OotP quote about him (it'll be in the section with the Order photograph).

"...,only time I ever met him, strange bloke...."

I don't think that makes us any wiser.

jordmundt6
November 19th, 2003, 7:05 pm
Alastor--thanks. See what I mean? How eccentric do you have to be for Mad-Eye to think you're a "strange bloke"?:wow: :wow: :wow: :D Glass--If you run a bar, you have to keep a stock and you have to keep books so you know whether you've made a profit and to pay debts to your suppliers, etc. etc. I'm not saying he's a bookkeepr by trade but that he'd have to KEEP books. Unless maybe his brother does that for him?:huh:

deadlocked
November 19th, 2003, 8:26 pm
How eccentric do you have to be for Mad-Eye to think you're a "strange bloke"


Why isnt DD pretty ecentric too if ya think about it??

jordmundt6
November 19th, 2003, 8:46 pm
Yeah, but I don't think anyone would use the phrase to describe him though.

harp230
November 20th, 2003, 1:07 am
Alastor--thanks. See what I mean? How eccentric do you have to be for Mad-Eye to think you're a "strange bloke"?:wow: :wow: :wow: :D Glass--If you run a bar, you have to keep a stock and you have to keep books so you know whether you've made a profit and to pay debts to your suppliers, etc. etc. I'm not saying he's a bookkeepr by trade but that he'd have to KEEP books. Unless maybe his brother does that for him?:huh:
if his brother did then he should be certian that he cannot read. Well unless aberforth is just lazy....

Jill
November 20th, 2003, 1:19 am
if his brother did then he should be certian that he cannot read. Well unless aberforth is just lazy....

I don't think aberforth is lazy but instead to pre-occupied to learn about what is going on in his bar. I got the impression that he was the kind of man who would trie and find out everything he can from a person who has just walked through the door.

I just think aberforth is helping dubledore keep a close eye on the goings on at hogsmade though to make sure that Voldemort takes a simple visit with his death eaters.

harp230
November 20th, 2003, 2:04 am
actuall I hadnt intended the lazy comment to be taken siriusly.
Actually the whole post was fairly lighthearted.....


But no, I think too that his purpose is to keep an eye on what happens ....

SinCitian
November 20th, 2003, 2:05 am
I thought that the barman is Aberforth too! I mean all the things he's described as (tall, long beard, etc.) are descriptions of Albus. Also, Harry even says the barman looked vaguely familiar ( I don't recall the exact words)...I think you have a great theory!

Windstar
November 20th, 2003, 2:20 am
Dumbledore may be considered "ecentric" but in a different kind of way than Aberforth would be considered "ecentric".
Aberforth wouldn't necessarily have to keep the books, he could have someone else do them, or do a charm and have them do themselves. If only I could convince my own checkbook to do the bills and balance it's self...... ;)

Marcy
November 20th, 2003, 3:21 am
Also remember that he acted irratated that the kids ordered 25 butterbeers. I thought then that he might be some type of spy. What type of shopkeeper gets upset about selling THAT much of their product?

And remember that Sirius says that the barman has a long memory...maybe Aberforth has a pensieve like dumbledore's?

jordmundt6
November 20th, 2003, 3:57 am
He runs what looks like close to an adults only business and here come all these kids into his nice quiet life when by all rights they should be at the Three Broomsticks with their friends (maybe he was trying to shove them over there for more cover, who knows?) and boisterously ask for probably the largest order he's had to fill at one time in at least a decade.

Windstar
November 21st, 2003, 3:30 am
He probably has to put on an act in front of his other customers or they will become suspicious.
The type of characters that hang out in his bar, unlike the Three Broomsticks, want privacy and quiet to discuss their personal matters.
They don't want a bunch of loud kids in there ruining their "atmosphere" so to speak.
And since he wants to keep up the front so that he can continue to spy for Dumbledore, he doesn't want the kids to get comfortable in his bar and scare off all the other customers who could provide him, unknowlingly, with information for Dumbledore.

jordmundt6
November 21st, 2003, 5:05 am
True enough, plus--he might have been thinking like Sirius. Go somewhere quiet with few people and you WILL get noticed by whoever is there.

GlassRoses314
November 21st, 2003, 8:43 am
Alastor--thanks. See what I mean? How eccentric do you have to be for Mad-Eye to think you're a "strange bloke"?:wow: :wow: :wow: :D Glass--If you run a bar, you have to keep a stock and you have to keep books so you know whether you've made a profit and to pay debts to your suppliers, etc. etc. I'm not saying he's a bookkeepr by trade but that he'd have to KEEP books. Unless maybe his brother does that for him?:huh:


Oohh I see. Perhaps like someone else has said, there is a charm for all of that. Or perhaps he doesn't have to do it as there doesn't seem to be a very large clientel at the Hog's Head. The bottles of Butterbeer were dusty, so maybe no one's really come in there in a long time and the ones that have didn't really ever order Butterbeer. He doesn't really seem to be a buisnessman or one who would fuss with such things as keeping stock. Or maybe he can read and we just don't know it. OR maybe he's not even Aberforth at all :)

Good thinking though!

Also, you'd have to be pretty accentric for Moody to think you're strange, I agree. If it is him I'd very much like to see how far he goes in that department.

jordmundt6
November 21st, 2003, 8:24 pm
Well, the bar could be just be a front for something else. Or, as far as the Butterbeer goes, I get the impression that most of the clientele prefer their drinks quite a lot stronger than the students' recreational drink of choice (Firewhiskey at minimum). Speaking of Firewhiskey. Is Tiberius Ogden independently wealthy as a member of the family who started marketing it--or maybe he's old enough to be the original maker and seller of it?

Alastor
November 22nd, 2003, 5:47 am
I'm afraid that we know nothing else about him than that he was a retired Wizengamot elder and a dear friend of professor Tofty.

jordmundt6
November 22nd, 2003, 6:40 pm
The name just struck me.:D I also checked to see if there was a description of Aberforth in that photograph--Nope. Ironically, this makes me almost positive that this barkeep IS Aberforth. Go figure:D

catiebelle
November 22nd, 2003, 7:20 pm
Also remember that he acted irratated that the kids ordered 25 butterbeers. I thought then that he might be some type of spy. What type of shopkeeper gets upset about selling THAT much of their product?
?

If it had been Aberforth in the bar you would think that Dumbledore
would be more informed. He would have reported Willy Widdershins
being there to Dumbledore immediately. Certainly he would
have noticed someone listening so intently---after all he gave him a
drink after serving Harry. (or maybe Dumbledore WAS informed
because after Umbridge reported this to Fudge in ch. 27 Dumbledore immediately smiles that all knowing smile) :)

The bartender did seem to recognise him (Harry)...his
gaze stopping on his scar... Then when Harry paid him he
served the man in the gray rags (Widdershins) :evil:
another drink...so he WOULD report do Dumbledore you
would think if he WAS Aberforth. :whistle:

jordmundt6
November 22nd, 2003, 7:27 pm
As a member of the Order yes. But what makes you so sure that Wildy used his own name or that Aberforth necessarily recognized him under those bandages?

ultimate sacrifice
November 22nd, 2003, 8:00 pm
He runs what looks like close to an adults only business and here come all these kids into his nice quiet life when by all rights they should be at the Three Broomsticks with their friends (maybe he was trying to shove them over there for more cover, who knows?) and boisterously ask for probably the largest order he's had to fill at one time in at least a decade.

This makes sense to me, jordmundt6.

However, I suspect, (until canon proves otherwise) that Aberforth and Albus Dumbledore are much closer than we know.

I think that charm he does with goats will surface in books 6 or 7, too.

jordmundt6
November 23rd, 2003, 2:29 am
Something y'all might find interesting--besides being filthy, the Hog's Head "smelled strongly of something that might have been GOATS" (I added the emphasis). What else do we all know about Aberforth? He experiments with GOATS!

Windstar
November 23rd, 2003, 2:50 am
Maybe Dumbledore DID know who was under all the bandages. It would have been too late for him to have done anything about it by the time he learned of it anyway.
Dumbledore may have even decided to just let things run their course and see what happens. He seems to take that stance often enough.

jordmundt6
November 23rd, 2003, 5:43 am
Yes he does. But it appears that for once, he was caught between two courses of action and unwilling or unable to choose between them. Either Harry was the boy he loved and wanted no harm or unnecessary worry to come to and he should have been wrapped up in school duties (including Prefect duties) or he was The ONE and it was time for him to learn everything as soon as possible to prevent a catstrophe in the Order and make sure that as "the ONE" he wasn't manipulated into handing Voldemort the knowledge that he wanted.

Dumbledore wanted it both ways, and he paid the price. Harry probably should have been asked about his dreams when he arrived at HQ, and, after he had (unwillingly) explained about the Cedric nightmares and those peculiar hallway moments, he should have been told everything by Dumbledore in Dumbledore's office, transported there by Portkey. Dumbledore then should have ordered the Occlumency lessons, either doing them himself or, better yet, instructing Snape to do them as Harry would be keener to block Snape out of his mind than he would be about repelling Dumbledore. Of course the humungous flaws in this plan includes

1. Total absence of the DA.--Harry wouldn't have had the time or the inclination to do anything except personal training.

2. The death of Arthur Weasley. Logistically speaking, Sirius, name cleared or not, was a liability. He's the most powerful member of the Order that they could actually afford to lose (strategically, not personally).

Marcy
November 24th, 2003, 5:43 am
Aberforth has to be the barman. Dumbledore has "associates" everywhere, and he doesn't seem like the type to disinherit his family. All signs point to Aberforth as the barman!

ultimate sacrifice
November 24th, 2003, 4:30 pm
I agree, until canon prove otherwise, all clues point to Aberforth as the barman and DD's brother. No reason yet to suspect otherwise IMHO.

jordmundt6
November 24th, 2003, 5:56 pm
Well ultimate--she's given us every subtle hint she can without having the barman say "Hi, my name's Aberforth." He looks like his brother and his photographic self (which Rowling conveniently elected not to describe) he reacts very oddly to Harry discussing what amounts to almost Auror business. He's got "a long memory" just like his brother. And of course, his bar smells like the goats on which he experiments. Everything we know or could expect to be factored into the Aberforth character thus far has been included in the description of the barman.

Jill
November 24th, 2003, 6:07 pm
Something y'all might find interesting--besides being filthy, the Hog's Head "smelled strongly of something that might have been GOATS" (I added the emphasis). What else do we all know about Aberforth? He experiments with GOATS!


Yes, Beazors I found in the belly of a goat and can cure almost anything..thats what Snape was talking about to the students in the first year.

So, can they cure his reading problem perhaps...*wild guess, very wild answer* :)

Aberforth must be the barkeeper, that is why his place is so disorganised in the first place. So why was Aberforth requiring possible beazors.

jordmundt6
November 24th, 2003, 11:56 pm
Maybe he was the emergency healer for the order on exotic poisons when it wasn't safe for Poppy to open her stores or she didn't have access to beazoars or other appropriate antidotes because they were in short supply.

Windstar
November 25th, 2003, 1:19 pm
That's a good reason: he was procuring them to heal someone in the order. Or maybe it had something to do with the Sorcerer's Stone/elixir of life. But then Dumbledore would have known about it. But that doesn't mean Dumbledore would have told Harry about the exact reason either.

ultimate sacrifice
November 26th, 2003, 2:41 am
Yes, Beazors I found in the belly of a goat and can cure almost anything..thats what Snape was talking about to the students in the first year.

So, can they cure his reading problem perhaps...*wild guess, very wild answer* :)

Aberforth must be the barkeeper, that is why his place is so disorganised in the first place. So why was Aberforth requiring possible beazors.

That's what I couldn't remember, BEAZORS~! Now, those things are supposed to cure just about everything, right? So, Aberforth has been most likely storing them up for years! I think they'll come in handy. Does anyone see ABERFORTH ENDING UP AT HOGWARTS??? Wouldn't that be interesting???

jordmundt6
November 26th, 2003, 2:50 am
Maybe as replacement Potions Master if Severus gets promoted, or gets injured or killed in the course of his duties for the Order?

Windstar
November 26th, 2003, 4:35 am
That would be interesting, for Aberforth to be the DADA teacher. Would that be considered um, nepetisim? I know that is spelled wrong, and could even be the wrong word. I mean where it is wrong to have more than one family member working in the same company.
Imagine the stories that Aberforth can tell, from his experiences and things he's over heard at the bar.....

Alorra Spinnet
November 26th, 2003, 12:14 pm
That's what I couldn't remember, BEAZORS~! Now, those things are supposed to cure just about everything, right? So, Aberforth has been most likely storing them up for years! I think they'll come in handy. Does anyone see ABERFORTH ENDING UP AT HOGWARTS??? Wouldn't that be interesting???
A bezoar can cure you of most poisons. Not of most anything. For that you would need Phoenix tears. ;)

ultimate sacrifice
November 26th, 2003, 5:49 pm
Oh yes, now I remember!

How interesting...DD has access to a Phoenix and ABERFORTH has goats for beazors. The brothers have access to two of the most powerful and potent "healing" agents in the magical world!

Windstar
November 27th, 2003, 12:13 am
I wonder, what would happen if you mix bezoars and pheonix tears?
Interesting possibilities indeed..... :agree:

jordmundt6
November 28th, 2003, 7:31 pm
Either something very good, or something very bad. They could be the ultimate restorative, maybe if you added Mandrake extract to the mix it'd be the healers' triple-cocktail?:huh: But it could also be very dangerous. Perhaps the combined power and conflicting effects of the two entities would result in a deadly poison. Difficult to tell without some textual evidence.

Windstar
November 29th, 2003, 2:02 am
Either way, if this is the case, Aberforth and Dumbledore have access to alot of power in war time.
I am too excited to find out more from the next two books. Unfortunately, once they do come out, that will be the end, so it will be bittersweet.......

jordmundt6
November 29th, 2003, 4:17 pm
The question is, will she leave it open-ended so we might get books 8-10 for Harry's Auror studies or will he die or will he change career paths (based on his personality and how he feels about what happens in war, I see him as more of a Master Healer than an Auror to be honest).

Windstar
November 29th, 2003, 5:46 pm
Aberforth has to be the barman. It makes so much sense!
I can't wait to find out what else is going to happen!

Jill
November 29th, 2003, 5:51 pm
Aberforth has to be the barman. It makes so much sense!
I can't wait to find out what else is going to happen!

I agree I think Aberforth is the barman and I can see him becoming quite an important character in the future books. I think I have already stated this but, oh well, here goes; Aberforth might be a look out for the school. To warn Dumbledore of on coming trouble. It looks as though his bar is catered for the darker wizards that visit Hogsmaede, so I bet he gets a lot inside information every now and then. How he delievers this information or whether he has already been on Hogwarts grounds and we just have not noticed, I am uncertain.

SilverStar
November 29th, 2003, 6:03 pm
I seriously think you guys are right. Again, there is no such thing as a coincidence with JKR. (a rule they teach you in the Ultimate Unofficial Guide to the Mysteries of HP) Obviously if she said the place smelled like goats, it has to be Aberforth.

Windstar
November 29th, 2003, 11:06 pm
I agree that it has to be Dumbledore's brother, Aberforth. I agree with him being a sort of look out for Dumbledore. I agree that he is able to "overhear" conversations from the clientelle that frequent his bar. And I agree that he most likey reports what he hears to Dumbledore.

The only question I have about this whole thing is: Doesn't everyone know that Aberforth is Dumbledore's brother? Wouldn't they be very careful what they say in that bar "just in case?"

I don't remember any talk of a major seperation between Dumbledore that would cause people to think that Dumbledore and Aberforth are not on speaking terms. Wouldn't they assume that he still talks to Dumbledore on occasion and that if Aberforth heard something of particular interest to Dumbledore, that Aberforth would repeat it to Dumbledore?

harp230
December 1st, 2003, 1:56 am
I kind of get the impression that they do not talk too much, but i just dont know. I would guess the two do not have much in common so they do not talk. Or maybe they just try to give the impression that they do not talk much because of an arguement or because they do not have much in common, so people will think Aberforth will not tell Albus. I would find it hard to believe that it is not general knowledge ( at least amoung adults) that they are related. Harry has recognized aberforth, he just hasnt placed a name to the face.

Windstar
December 1st, 2003, 1:40 pm
Exactly my point. If everyone knows that the bar man is Aberforth, then they would be careful about what they say in there right? But I haven't heard about any argument or anything that would lead people to believe that Aberforth and Dumbledore are not on speaking terms. I could understand people in the bar being more careless in what they say around Aberforth, if they knew that him and Dumbledore didn't speak to each other. And you would think that they would be suspicious anyway because Hogsmead is so close to Hogwarts, where Dumbeldore works.
But Dumbledore doesn't mention Aberforth but once, I believe, and Moody only mentioned him that one time also. Maybe, not every one does know that Dumbledore has a brother in the first place?

Puffskein
December 1st, 2003, 4:31 pm
If Harry couldn't put a name to the face, maybe it's expected that other people can't. Or the Order are hoping that no-one thinks Dumbledore's brother would work in a grimy old pub.

I was itching to know why the barman looked familiar, and Aberforth certainly seems the most likely candidate. We'll just have to wait and see what importance he may have.

harp230
December 1st, 2003, 11:43 pm
Well we do not have much proof that they are not on speaking terms , other than there are thse who possibly feel they are not being spied on by Aberforth who would in turn tell his brother.
Or we notice that most of the people who enter the hogs Head are some how disguised. Maybe they feel their desguise is sufficient to cover their identity. With a masked identity, they may feel comfortable talking freely knowing that dumbledore's brother could be listening. Maybe aberforth has an unknowway of seeing through disguises...

nattyvs
December 2nd, 2003, 12:25 am
I think Aberforth will have an important role in the future, because I don't see why he'd be mentioned many times for nothing.