The Twilight series by Stephenie Meyer v.3

I think it's exactly the vagueness of description you mentioned earlier that makes it so easy for lots of girls and women (and a few boys, I'm sure) to see the 'ideal guy' in Edward. He's supposed to look stunning and beautiful and has butterscotch eyes :lol: but apart from that it's up to everyone's imagination.

I think that's exactly what it is. The reader sees everything thru bella's eyes. All I remember are her constant descriptions of how perfect he looked, the chiseled jawline, the marble chest, the copper hair...:drool: I honestly think that's enough of a description. The rest is up to our imagination to plug in what our ideal of the perfect guy looks like.

I think people are so in love with edward over japser, etc because he is the main character, the leading man. The reader also subconsiously ends up living vicariously thru bella. I think if bella were in love with jasper, a lot of fangirls would have been nuts about him too.

I think the big draw is the idea of someone feeling that enamored with you, that devoted to you. Not that someone would stalk you, but that they would (does that make sense?).

And since vampires do not change, that feeling will never go away. So both Bella & Edward will forever feel that "new in love" feeling forever. That is a very alluring idea. As a young girl, I always thought the fading of love was a bad thing, and I am sure most young girls feel the same. As a married with children adult I have realized that the initial "crazy in love" feeling fades, but something better is in the background. However, I would have never believed that as a teenager, which is who these books are geared to.

That said, they are entertaining books to read and I did enjoy them.

I think you make several good points. The concept of that first, new, obsessive love lasting forever would probably appeal to a lot of young girls. Although I am past that stage, I do remember feeling that way at one time and it was great. That's why I enjoyed twilight so much. It reminded me of a more innocent, idealistic stage of life except in the novel, that stage lasts for eternity.

I think you make several good points. The concept of that first, new, obsessive love lasting forever would probably appeal to a lot of young girls. Although I am past that stage, I do remember feeling that way at one time and it was great. That's why I enjoyed twilight so much. It reminded me of a more innocent, idealistic stage of life except in the novel, that stage lasts for eternity.


I like this point about young people liking the idea of everlasting love. I remember when I was in that stage. But now I'm out of it and think my 13-year-old self was being silly and idealistic. Will teenage Twilight fans realize this too in 10 years? That the love in this book was unrealistic?

Even Dumbledore realized his younger self was being naive when he was in love with Gindlewald. So will people keep liking the books into their adulthood?

I believe most of the fans, when they get older and have done more reading, will look back at Twilight fondly, with that nostalgic, 'oh, it was totally silly and unrealistic, but that was good times' feeling. The TwiMoms - who knows?

I think that's exactly what it is. The reader sees everything thru bella's eyes. All I remember are her constant descriptions of how perfect he looked, the chiseled jawline, the marble chest, the copper hair...:drool: I honestly think that's enough of a description. The rest is up to our imagination to plug in what our ideal of the perfect guy looks like.
I didnt even remember the chiseled jawline part :lol:. I guess it's ok enough of a description...

I think people are so in love with edward over japser, etc because he is the main character, the leading man. The reader also subconsiously ends up living vicariously thru bella. I think if bella were in love with jasper, a lot of fangirls would have been nuts about him too.
If i hadn't had other characters to fall in love with, I would be in love with Jasper :lol:. I wrote this thing in English class talking about how Jasper makes Edward look like a prissy little crybaby and edward makes Jasper look awesome :rotfl:

I believe most of the fans, when they get older and have done more reading, will look back at Twilight fondly, with that nostalgic, 'oh, it was totally silly and unrealistic, but that was good times' feeling. The TwiMoms - who knows?

I'm not a twimom, but I imagine that is probably exactly how they feel about twilight- nostalgic. I am sure the young adults who like twilight will eventually grow out of it too. Maybe that is why they are churning out the movies so fast. They are afraid of losing their audience. That's exactly what happens to all the "teen TV' shows. They last a few years, are extremely popular, and then disappear as soon as the core audience grows up. I wouldn't be surprised if the Jonas brothers, as ridiculously popular as they are now, will be yesterday's news in 2 years tops. The same may even happen with twilight.

HP was completely different. The characters aged as the readers did which is why I think it has had such longevity.

The constant descriptions of Edward's physical features drive me nuts. I mean we get it, he's HOT. Meyer describes nothing about his personality meaning Bella describes none of it. We don't know the personality attraction. Based on what I know, he likes her because of how she smells and she likes him because of how he looks.

I'm not a twimom, but I imagine that is probably exactly how they feel about twilight- nostalgic. I am sure the young adults who like twilight will eventually grow out of it too. Maybe that is why they are churning out the movies so fast. They are afraid of losing their audience. That's exactly what happens to all the "teen TV' shows. They last a few years, are extremely popular, and then disappear as soon as the core audience grows up. I wouldn't be surprised if the Jonas brothers, as ridiculously popular as they are now, will be yesterday's news in 2 years tops. The same may even happen with twilight.

HP was completely different. The characters aged as the readers did which is why I think it has had such longevity.

yeah exactly. The difference between me and a lot of teenage girls is that i enjoy stuff that i'll grow into rather than stuff i'll grow out of

I wouldn't be surprised if the Jonas brothers, as ridiculously popular as they are now, will be yesterday's news in 2 years tops. The same may even happen with twilight.



Yeah, I think that's fair to say. I saw one comparison on a different forum that pretty much said Harry Potter = The Beatles and Twilight = the Jona Brothers. And as much as I don't like Twilight, I can see why people do like it (all that romance stuff). The Jonas Brothers have a lot of really dedicated fans (including my old roommate) just like Twilight. But then again, so did 'Nsync. I was majorly into them, but then they went away and I grew up and stopped listening to them. When I hear one of their songs now I get that fond nostalgic feeling some people were talking about, but I don't just start going OMG NYSNC! like I did when I was younger.

Yeah, I think that's fair to say. I saw one comparison on a different forum that pretty much said Harry Potter = The Beatles and Twilight = the Jona Brothers. And as much as I don't like Twilight, I can see why people do like it (all that romance stuff). The Jonas Brothers have a lot of really dedicated fans (including my old roommate) just like Twilight. But then again, so did 'Nsync. I was majorly into them, but then they went away and I grew up and stopped listening to them. When I hear one of their songs now I get that fond nostalgic feeling some people were talking about, but I don't just start going OMG NYSNC! like I did when I was younger.


so true, I totally agree

Yeah, I think that's fair to say. I saw one comparison on a different forum that pretty much said Harry Potter = The Beatles and Twilight = the Jona Brothers. And as much as I don't like Twilight, I can see why people do like it (all that romance stuff). The Jonas Brothers have a lot of really dedicated fans (including my old roommate) just like Twilight. But then again, so did 'Nsync. I was majorly into them, but then they went away and I grew up and stopped listening to them. When I hear one of their songs now I get that fond nostalgic feeling some people were talking about, but I don't just start going OMG NYSNC! like I did when I was younger.


Exactly! I was reading an article in vogue that interviewed SM. She basically said she wanted to capture what it was like being 13 years old again, when a boy gave you a look, and you sat around with your friends for day trying to figure out if he liked you or not. That's what twilight sort of is - a throwback to your early teen years when you were first discovering what romance was.

http://www.style.com/vogue/feature/2009_March_Stephenie_Meyer/?mbid=rss_feature

Boy bands, teen tv shows- nsync, bsb, etc eventually fade as the audience grows up.

This will be controversial, but it's worth talking about. If we've already talked about it in the last few pages, and I missed it, apologies.

Please note that this does not accurately portray my opinion, nor is it meant for use as an exercise in author bashing. It's the opinion of Stephen King. Doesn't make it the absolute truth! ;) It's published in the March 6 issue of USA Today, I think. The internet has, for once, not been very clear about this. Or maybe I looked it up wrong.

Anyway, King said “Both Rowling and Meyer, they’re speaking directly to young people… The real difference is that Jo Rowling is a terrific writer and Stephenie Meyer can’t write worth a darn. She’s not very good.”

There has been various forms of outcry about this from Twilight fans, but King made an interesting point that Meyer's books are very accessible because she fuses love and sex as one thing, making it all quite non-threatening. I see where he's coming from, and the psychoanalysis does have some merit, but I personally don't think he should have made such comments for the public to read.

Yes we did talk about it a few pages back. I am a fan of the twilight series, but I do understand where Stephen King was coming from. When I first started twilight, I remember almost putting it down. The writing did not have the detail and creativity of HP, not to mention quite a few grammatical errors.

However, when I picked it back up and finished it I realized that SM had a different talent that was just as special. Her writing style was so personal, that she was able to make the reader really feel the emotions that the protagonist is going thru- much more so than HP. When bella was excited to see edward, I found myself feeling the same. When she was devastated in new moon after edward left, I found myself rushing thru the book because I couldn't wait to have edward come back again. When bella felt pain and loss, I could completely empathize. I think that's what made the twilight series so addictive and why throngs of young girls have fallen head over heels for the fictional character of edward. As bella is falling in love with edward, the reader ends up doing so as well. It's almost as if all these young girls have become bella. As much as I liked the character of Harry, I certainly never felt as connected to his character as bella- probably because twilight is a first person narrative.

So I think comparing JKR and SM is like comparing apples and oranges. JKR wrote a wonderful, imaginative, complex coming of age story set in fantastical world. SM wrote a story about young, first love and did a great job capturing the emotional turmoil that goes along with that experience.

So I think comparing JKR and SM is like comparing apples and oranges. JKR wrote a wonderful, imaginative, complex coming of age story set in fantastical world. SM wrote a story about young, first love and did a great job capturing the emotional turmoil that goes along with that experience.

I agree. They wrote different stories that serve different purposes which does not invalidate either of them.

Yes we did talk about it a few pages back. I am a fan of the twilight series, but I do understand where Stephen King was coming from. When I first started twilight, I remember almost putting it down. The writing did not have the detail and creativity of HP, not to mention quite a few grammatical errors.

However, when I picked it back up and finished it I realized that SM had a different talent that was just as special. Her writing style was so personal, that she was able to make the reader really feel the emotions that the protagonist is going thru- much more so than HP. When bella was excited to see edward, I found myself feeling the same. When she was devastated in new moon after edward left, I found myself rushing thru the book because I couldn't wait to have edward come back again. When bella felt pain and loss, I could completely empathize. I think that's what made the twilight series so addictive and why throngs of young girls have fallen head over heels for the fictional character of edward. As bella is falling in love with edward, the reader ends up doing so as well. It's almost as if all these young girls have become bella. As much as I liked the character of Harry, I certainly never felt as connected to his character as bella- probably because twilight is a first person narrative.

So I think comparing JKR and SM is like comparing apples and oranges. JKR wrote a wonderful, imaginative, complex coming of age story set in fantastical world. SM wrote a story about young, first love and did a great job capturing the emotional turmoil that goes along with that experience.I can't possible agree with this. Plain and simple, Stephanie Meyer wants to be JK Rowling. She wants to have really really long books like JKR, but the Twilight books are 500 pages of filler. She even suggested that Breaking Dawn should be made into two movies "because there's so much in it." (Which is funny because 7/8 of the book is dedicated to adjectives used to describe Edward).

I agree that her writing was personal- but in a different way than you. She was writing about herself. She probably dreamed about being that plain girl that caught the eye of the wicked hawt guy. Edward is her personal Gary Stu. The only reason these books are popular at all (like the Jonas Brothers) is because people (like the JBs, mostly girls) are obsessed with the good-looking guy, so therefore the books must be good (JB's are wicked hawt, therefore they're good singers? Try again).

I also disagree that I found myself feeling the same things as Bella. (Obviously a big reason for that is because I'm a guy, and felt nothing for Edward. The main focus of these books is the romance, and especially how good-looking Edward is. She seems to mention that a lot. So the major appeal is to girls. There's almost nothing in it for guys. So I guess you could call me an outsider, and this is an outsider's opinion). I don't think anybody should ever start to think of themselves as Bella because that will only lead to bad things. She might just be the weakest protagonist/narrator in any major work of fiction. Ever. She has absolutely zero character. Her physical description is "plain." We know she is clumsy, and loves classics. Both of those traits have even more to them, though. Her love of the classics (particularly Romeo and Juliet and Wuthering Heights are both horribly disguised as parallels to her own story. Her clumsiness is beyond any real person's, at least one that I have ever met. Apparently it's believable that she fell down two flights of stairs and out a window, because that's her excuse for her injuries from James. She is so clumsy that Edward has to follow her around everywhere and make sure she doesn't get hurt.

In addition to those two traits, there is... nothing. She's the narrator and we still have no idea what goes on in her head, besides "I wish Edward were here," "Oh, I love Edward," and "Why are these stupid human beings wasting my time?" Instead, we get a play-by-play description of what she does every single day. There's one scene where she goes into detail on how she makes dinner, then tells us what clothes she's wearing, and how many new emails she has. That, my friends, is how these books get to be so long.

You also say that when Edward left, you sympathized with her. I can understand that she was devastated. That's perfectly naturally. But she never got over it. She drowned in a pool of self pity for months. She doesn't say a word to her friends for months, and when she finally does, she wonders why they're all staring at her like that. And it seems like she doesn't even miss him that much- most of the pain is missing having a boyfriend, because as soon as she starts hanging out with Jake things get better. But when the better looking guy comes back, she immediately goes back to him. When Jake tells Charlie about the motorcycle, she wonders what his problem is. Please.

So you are certainly entitled to your opinion, but for me at least it's a complete mystery how anyone could possibly say that Stephanie Meyer captured the emotional turmoil that goes along with young love. She wrote a story about a girl that is extremely unintelligent, gets brainwashed by a shining vampire, and leaves behind everything that she ever cared about in her life so she can spend all of eternity with him. If that's sending any sort of good messages to teenage girls (not to mention the implication that teenage pregnancies are good), I fail to see them. Stephen King couldn't have said it better. You can't compare Stephanie Meyer to JK Rowling, the latter is just in a completely different league.

I doubt we shall get an answer, as Meyer had never really gone in to great detail about what happens after book. We are just left knowing that Jacob and Renesemee are going to be together, therefore, we get a happily ever after ending with out thousands of questions...
However, I personally think it is probable that Renesemee is fertile. As Jacob chose her and they imprint on those who are most likely to continue the warewolf gene. So he wouldnt imprint on her if she was infirtile.

Exactly! I was reading an article in vogue that interviewed SM. She basically said she wanted to capture what it was like being 13 years old again, when a boy gave you a look, and you sat around with your friends for day trying to figure out if he liked you or not. That's what twilight sort of is - a throwback to your early teen years when you were first discovering what romance was.

Hang on hang on hang on hang on -- SM said that she wanted to capture the romantic tendencies of a thirteen-year-old girl? When Bella is supposed to be a seventeen-year-old high school junior? What the hell?!:huh:

@v-duck, re: "I personally don't think he should have made such comments for the public to read." Oh, please - King's just saying what half the free world is already thinking. And he moonlights as a columnist and reviewer, so putting his opinion out there is right up his alley anyway. The hardcore fans can hate it all they want - doesn't mean he's not allowed to say how he feels.

DeathlyH - I agree with everything you just said. I'm female, by the way, and I didn't sympathize with Bella at all. I didn't care about Edward in the beginning, he started to annoy me when he suggested that they spend a weekend in a meadow staring at each other instead of taking a trip to Seattle to check out a decent book store, and I was relieved to hang out with Jacob instead in New Moon.

However, I will concede that it wasn't until after Bella fell for Edward that I hit that point. Everything previous to that - the angsty, jaded, self-righteous teenager in a crowd full of annoyingly cheerful strangers - I understood, because I've been that person before. She was moody and a little bit mean, but I liked her. After she decided to talk about nothing but Edward Edward Edward (cooking for Dad) Edward (reading Jane Austen - blech!) Edward Edward and Edward that I stopped liking her.

AND I would like to point out that her editors, proofreaders, and literary agents are to blame for the finished product being so riddled with garden variety typos, grammatical errors, and plot holes - not her. A beginning author needs to be nurtured and sent through several drafts before being published. It's painfully clear to me (and many others) that she did not. And that's not her fault. I can say this with perfect confidence having read The Host and seeing that she is, in fact, capable of telling an engaging story with real character development and feeling. (Even though it did eventually devolve into another lame love story in the end.)

However, when I picked it back up and finished it I realized that SM had a different talent that was just as special. Her writing style was so personal, that she was able to make the reader really feel the emotions that the protagonist is going thru- much more so than HP. When bella was excited to see edward, I found myself feeling the same. When she was devastated in new moon after edward left, I found myself rushing thru the book because I couldn't wait to have edward come back again. When bella felt pain and loss, I could completely empathize. I think that's what made the twilight series so addictive and why throngs of young girls have fallen head over heels for the fictional character of edward. As bella is falling in love with edward, the reader ends up doing so as well. It's almost as if all these young girls have become bella. As much as I liked the character of Harry, I certainly never felt as connected to his character as bella- probably because twilight is a first person narrative.
Actually I could not connect with Twilight and really feel it all. I cried in the DH deaths still after the TWENTIETH time (well, not bawling, but tearing up, i was muffling cries the very first read) but when Edward left in New Moon I felt nothing. I didn't really rush through new moon because I wanted to see Edward, I moreof wanted to see how Meyer would write it. JKR has amazing writing talent that really really sucks me in and allows me connect with ALL of the character in a way that parallels real life. Meyer only kind of sucks me into Bella and Edward, and pretty poorly IMO. And I'm talking about several years ago for this, since i've grown out of Harry, but when I just started Harry Potter in like 2nd or 3rd grade, I could COMPLETELY connect with Harry and I saw him like a big brother, or best friend (yeah, too young to think of him as a boyfriend :lol:), despite the fact that it was 3rd person. And as I grew up (no offense some of you guys, but I think i'm a better example for the Potter thing since I'm a bit more of JKR's target audience at the time, like 7-13 time frame), I could connect with Harry in the way you do with a sibling or long term best friend, someone you grew up with. And well, as much as I kind of hate Harry now, I still like in the way that he's like my imaginary big brother, kind of hate him, but still close.

I can't feel the same intimacy with Bella, even though i am Meyer's target audience and when i started, i was also new to the world of"love", I think I was either 12 or 13 at the time. (Ok, I'm really struggling to remember right now, it feels like long ago :lol:) And yeah, I admit, I really liked it at first, but still, not too much for the romance. I felt like in Twilight, I could connect with Bella, but then in New Moon I really hated it. I actually don't think it's a good description of young love.


So I think comparing JKR and SM is like comparing apples and oranges. JKR wrote a wonderful, imaginative, complex coming of age story set in fantastical world. SM wrote a story about young, first love and did a great job capturing the emotional turmoil that goes along with that experience.

I was just skimming through the beginning of Twilight and this is really all that happens: Bella feeling confused about Edward's mixed signals, lots of glaring, lots of chagrin, lots of descriptions about Edward's hotness and random questions.

That makes me a bit surprised so many girls like it now. I've learned a lot from other girls and gossiping :lol:, and what most girls seem to connect with is well, repeated bad relationships and then finding "the one". It feels like Twilgiht is taking away such an important part of teenage life and astounds me even more how teenage girls like it. I can almost understand the appeal of Sisterhood of the Traveling Pants, I personally hated the writing, but the author did have the right idea about teens. Meyer doesn't even have that.

Young love isn't supposed to happen just like that. A few lucky people do get it like that, and get lucky the first time but still. Dating at a young age the first time is about being afraid of what will happen, about being afraid of what the boyfriend will be like and then falling head over heels for that guy, having dreams, having thoughts wholly centered on that guy (which i admit, Meyer does well). But what she takes out is the loss and feeling that when you lose that guy, you've lost everything. Yes, that happens in New Moon, but he comes back, which i feel just ruined the series actually. If Bella had fallen for Jake, that would've been a MUCH better depiction of what love is like, about moving on, about knowing that not all is lost. Of course, knowing Meyer, she couldn't stand losing Edward, but still. Anyways, there's a lot more to dating during high school that she cuts off. "what if we break up?" "what if he doesn't really like me?" "What if he's using me?" "What if my parents don't approve?" (well, that's done ok I gues :lol:). The point is, she makes everything so incredibly simple and flat and I feel that's just such a waste of talent for showing emotions. Actually, Meyer had the possibility of making the series so much more popular but she wasted it.

I can't possible agree with this. Plain and simple, Stephanie Meyer wants to be JK Rowling. She wants to have really really long books like JKR, but the Twilight books are 500 pages of filler. She even suggested that Breaking Dawn should be made into two movies "because there's so much in it." (Which is funny because 7/8 of the book is dedicated to adjectives used to describe Edward).
two movies....two movies....i hope this isn't going to be considered bashing but that just strikes me as a bit um....overestimating? There are some things that are only long in writing. If we put everything in Breaking Dawn into a movie, we might as well show a slideshow of Edward and Nessie and before and after pics of vampire vision vs. human vision :lol:

I agree that her writing was personal- but in a different way than you. She was writing about herself. She probably dreamed about being that plain girl that caught the eye of the wicked hawt guy. Edward is her personal Gary Stu. The only reason these books are popular at all (like the Jonas Brothers) is because people (like the JBs, mostly girls) are obsessed with the good-looking guy, so therefore the books must be good (JB's are wicked hawt, therefore they're good singers? Try again).
Can't argue with that :lol:. I don't know why she made Bella so popular though. I know she was the new kid and all, but I was once the new kid and I was in second grade which is like kindergarten in the respect that making friends is like the easiest thing ever and I nver got quite that much attention.

I also disagree that I found myself feeling the same things as Bella. (Obviously a big reason for that is because I'm a guy, and felt nothing for Edward. The main focus of these books is the romance, and especially how good-looking Edward is. She seems to mention that a lot. So the major appeal is to girls. There's almost nothing in it for guys. So I guess you could call me an outsider, and this is an outsider's opinion). I don't think anybody should ever start to think of themselves as Bella because that will only lead to bad things. She might just be the weakest protagonist/narrator in any major work of fiction. Ever. She has absolutely zero character. Her physical description is "plain." We know she is clumsy, and loves classics. Both of those traits have even more to them, though. Her love of the classics (particularly Romeo and Juliet and Wuthering Heights are both horribly disguised as parallels to her own story. Her clumsiness is beyond any real person's, at least one that I have ever met. Apparently it's believable that she fell down two flights of stairs and out a window, because that's her excuse for her injuries from James. She is so clumsy that Edward has to follow her around everywhere and make sure she doesn't get hurt.
the clumsiness isn't unbelievable actually :lol:. Im not quite that clumsy anymore but at one time i tripped over my feet like daily :lol:. I personally think the clumsiness is Meyer's poorly used plot device to make Bella seem unlucky?

In addition to those two traits, there is... nothing. She's the narrator and we still have no idea what goes on in her head, besides "I wish Edward were here," "Oh, I love Edward," and "Why are these stupid human beings wasting my time?" Instead, we get a play-by-play description of what she does every single day. There's one scene where she goes into detail on how she makes dinner, then tells us what clothes she's wearing, and how many new emails she has. That, my friends, is how these books get to be so long.
it's not the play by play that's the bad thing actually. Overall they're still glimpses of her life. The problem is that they don't characterize Bella and they don't have substance. It's a really delicate balance. for example, in the book i just finished writing, I've been doing major editing because like really, it's an art trying to paint out a plot and the characters and the details. And it's a balance to shape everything out exactly how you want to. the readers aren't in the author's head, so the author has to spell things out in a way that both gives a good representation without going overboard. (which is why I really need to type up my book, because my english teacher is completely incapable of much more thought process than "It's good" or "It's bad" and is afraid of "hurting my feelings"...honestly...i really hope she knows more than she's letting on because she seems like the typical "dumb blonde")

You also say that when Edward left, you sympathized with her. I can understand that she was devastated. That's perfectly naturally. But she never got over it. She drowned in a pool of self pity for months. She doesn't say a word to her friends for months, and when she finally does, she wonders why they're all staring at her like that. And it seems like she doesn't even miss him that much- most of the pain is missing having a boyfriend, because as soon as she starts hanging out with Jake things get better. But when the better looking guy comes back, she immediately goes back to him. When Jake tells Charlie about the motorcycle, she wonders what his problem is. Please.
:rotfl: so true. I have had friends who have broken up with their boyfriends, one of which whose boyfriend broke up with her the day before their anniversary and later spent the time spreading nasty rumors about her and while before he spread the rumors she was devastated, she didn't do a bella, she still talked to me, still talked to her friends, didn't close off, etc. And this isn't romantic love or anything, but my friend's dad died and he NEVER got to be as bad as Bella. He didn't quite talk about it much, but he didn't close off and become a hermit either.

Hang on hang on hang on hang on -- SM said that she wanted to capture the romantic tendencies of a thirteen-year-old girl? When Bella is supposed to be a seventeen-year-old high school junior? What the hell?!:huh:
i guess Meyer's first love was at 13 :hmm:
@v-duck, re: "I personally don't think he should have made such comments for the public to read." Oh, please - King's just saying what half the free world is already thinking. And he moonlights as a columnist and reviewer, so putting his opinion out there is right up his alley anyway. The hardcore fans can hate it all they want - doesn't mean he's not allowed to say how he feels.
free speech and free press :D.
DeathlyH - I agree with everything you just said. I'm female, by the way, and I didn't sympathize with Bella at all. I didn't care about Edward in the beginning, he started to annoy me when he suggested that they spend a weekend in a meadow staring at each other instead of taking a trip to Seattle to check out a decent book store, and I was relieved to hang out with Jacob instead in New Moon.
Lets go a step further, I'm Meyer's "intended audience" :D and I didn't really fall in love with Edward. I did kind of find him a bit funny though since well, i just have a really poor sense of humor

However, I will concede that it wasn't until after Bella fell for Edward that I hit that point. Everything previous to that - the angsty, jaded, self-righteous teenager in a crowd full of annoyingly cheerful strangers - I understood, because I've been that person before. She was moody and a little bit mean, but I liked her. After she decided to talk about nothing but Edward Edward Edward (cooking for Dad) Edward (reading Jane Austen - blech!) Edward Edward and Edward that I stopped liking her.
I never understood why Bella liked Jane Austen actually. I thought the original Bella didn't care for guys?
AND I would like to point out that her editors, proofreaders, and literary agents are to blame for the finished product being so riddled with garden variety typos, grammatical errors, and plot holes - not her. A beginning author needs to be nurtured and sent through several drafts before being published. It's painfully clear to me (and many others) that she did not. And that's not her fault. I can say this with perfect confidence having read The Host and seeing that she is, in fact, capable of telling an engaging story with real character development and feeling. (Even though it did eventually devolve into another lame love story in the end.)
the host's love story is a tad more interesting though,

^I'm not that bothered by the love story in The Host - the larger plot makes up for it. She just tends to lay on the smarm a bit thick for my tastes in general.

And I think Bella's Jane Austen fanhood was more a connection to the 'brainiac' and 'bookworm' part of her characterisation, rather than a way to show her being swoony about boys. (Although that might've been a better idea, now that I'm thinking about it....)

DeathlyH - I couldn't agree more.

And yeah, anyone who thinks Stephen King is a big bully for bashing Stephenie Meyer doesn't know Stephen King at all. He's pretty well known to speak what he thinks. And there are probably a few other authors out there that might think poorly of the Twilight series but they thought it might seem rude to voice it. I, however, appreciate King's voicing his opinion. Bluntness is never overrated in my book.

And going back to the clumsy thing: I can see people being the every day clumsy like Bella, but the way she's described in gym class is just a little far gone. In Smeyer's effort to make Bella even remotely relatable she went a little too far - I have never, ever known anyone who can royally screw up every sport while hurting other people at the same time, Just...no.

Wow, you guys really hate twilight !:) I'm surprised everyone went on to read the rest of the books :Lol!

Well, I agree that it's not hp but I find it interesting that there are so many more twilight haters on this thread than actual fans :lol

At the end of the day, it's just a fantastical story that's a fun read. I enjoyed it for what it was and never expected it to depict or reflect reality in any way. It is completely unrealistic of course, but I still found it entertaining and it reminded me of all the highs and lows of first love.

^Not really, but I do have a *lot* of issues with it. (And although it's forbidden here, I do like snarking on it - it's so much fun.)

However, I do wonder what makes the books so difficult to put down, even when you're tearing your hair out and throwing the books across the room every other chapter. One argument I've heard several times now from superfans is "If you hate them so much, why do you continue to read them and talk about them all the time?" If anyone figures out an answer to that one, PLEASE tell me! I need help!

^I'm not that bothered by the love story in The Host - the larger plot makes up for it. She just tends to lay on the smarm a bit thick for my tastes in general.

And I think Bella's Jane Austen fanhood was more a connection to the 'brainiac' and 'bookworm' part of her characterisation, rather than a way to show her being swoony about boys. (Although that might've been a better idea, now that I'm thinking about it....)
i know it is, but you don't see guys swooning over jane austen ;), or at least not many
DeathlyH - I couldn't agree more.

And yeah, anyone who thinks Stephen King is a big bully for bashing Stephenie Meyer doesn't know Stephen King at all. He's pretty well known to speak what he thinks. And there are probably a few other authors out there that might think poorly of the Twilight series but they thought it might seem rude to voice it. I, however, appreciate King's voicing his opinion. Bluntness is never overrated in my book.
bluntness is completely underrated. We need more people who actually voice their opinion in this world. For example, if Meyer's editors were a bit more blunt to her, maybe her books would be much better and we wouldn't be here complaining about them ;)

And going back to the clumsy thing: I can see people being the every day clumsy like Bella, but the way she's described in gym class is just a little far gone. In Smeyer's effort to make Bella even remotely relatable she went a little too far - I have never, ever known anyone who can royally screw up every sport while hurting other people at the same time, Just...no.
I agree it does go a bit too far, no one is THAT bad at EVERY sport. But I am pretty good at hurting myself and lots of people around me while playing sports :whistle:. And i've gotten hit in the face by nearly every ball imaginable besides a bowling ball (thank god....) and i've gotten slammed into the bleachers and got my mouth caught on my braces and it seems like in whatever sport i do, injuries bypass the rest of my body and go straight to my head :lol:. However, i don't know anyone who quite hates all sports that much and most of the people I know will at least try to have fun even if they're completely horrible at the sport and end up just laughing at themselves, unless if the other people are just being mean and competitive. Bella's complete animosity to sports sort of characterized her to me as someone who refuses to be optimistic and sort of enjoys complaining about her life and being a damsel in distress and made her pretty unlikable.

Wow, you guys really hate twilight !:) I'm surprised everyone went on to read the rest of the books :Lol!
I was young and foolish? :lol: Exhibit A of people growing out of things, me
:p. I was part of the first wave of fans so i've had time to digest the books, grow up a bit, and now, hate them :D

Well, I agree that it's not hp but I find it interesting that there are so many more twilight haters on this thread than actual fans :lol
it is kind of interesting actually, there are so many fans in real life compared to this thread

I need help![/i]

i don't know if this is the reason, but i have a theory that since there's jsut so much filler in the books, maybe some people are trying to read to the next part to hope there's something new?

^Not really, but I do have a *lot* of issues with it. (And although it's forbidden here, I do like snarking on it - it's so much fun.)

However, I do wonder what makes the books so difficult to put down, even when you're tearing your hair out and throwing the books across the room every other chapter. One argument I've heard several times now from superfans is "If you hate them so much, why do you continue to read them and talk about them all the time?" If anyone figures out an answer to that one, PLEASE tell me! I need help!After halfway through New Moon, I only kept reading so I could critique them... :D It was painful but I got through them all. And really, the only times I talk about them are also to critique it.

i really enjoy telling my friends who love twilight that Edward's a stalker :rotfl: it's the one thing they can't deny :lol:

In regards to the amount Twilight haters vs. amount of Twilight fans on this forum: I think a lof Harry Potter fans really grasped onto Twilight for a new series to read between HP books (like me), and then got a little turned off when Smeyer and her books started being compares to JKR and HP. Personally I was like no, they didn't just go there - these books are entertaining, but they don't come close to HP. Those comparisons are what started my feeling a little animosity towards the series, and then Breaking Dawn sealed the deal. And I've seen a lot of other forums with HP fans who are former Twilight fans who went through the same kind of thing as I did. of course, i
m not saying this applies to everyone, i just know it's not uncommon.

I love Twilight. It was a good read and something entertaining to read to pass time.

I finished Breaking Dawn this morning - oh, oh, oh...wow. I just can't...put my finger on what makes this series so amazing. It's just sooo gripping (or dazzling :facepalm: - they really should make a :facepalm: smiley...:scared:). The thing is, in places I want to be annoyed that the characters are too perfect and that the writing commits so many literary crimes (which I picked up on at the time but cannot now remember) but I just...I just can't! One of the bits I found incredibly clever though was when the narration switched to Jacob - I found it incredible that Bella and Jacob were kept completely in character throughout these sections. I also found Jake's chapter titles hilarious. The ending was brilliant, if a bit...cheesy.

In a way though, I'm glad I've finished it, because all the time I was reading them, I was sacrificing my homework :whistle:.

I finished Breaking Dawn this morning - oh, oh, oh...wow. I just can't...put my finger on what makes this series so amazing. It's just sooo gripping (or dazzling :facepalm: - they really should make a :facepalm: smiley...:scared:). The thing is, in places I want to be annoyed that the characters are too perfect and that the writing commits so many literary crimes (which I picked up on at the time but cannot now remember) but I just...I just can't! One of the bits I found incredibly clever though was when the narration switched to Jacob - I found it incredible that Bella and Jacob were kept completely in character throughout these sections. I also found Jake's chapter titles hilarious. The ending was brilliant, if a bit...cheesy.

In a way though, I'm glad I've finished it, because all the time I was reading them, I was sacrificing my homework :whistle:.
Finally! Another person who likes Breaking Dawn!

Yeah, they really do need to make a facepalm smiley. It'd be so funny to see. A little smiley with a hand and he smacks himself in the face. :rotfl:

The overall plot of Breaking Dawn was good, but the writing was not good. Meyer got better at writing as the series progressed, but it was still her usually amateur style.

The thing about the whole Twilight series is that it basically is a cheesy love-story with some vampire action in between. Normally cheesy stuff just makes me want to barf, but the Twilight series was okay. I've read plenty of better vampire fiction, though.

I haven't been on any Twilight sites for a while so I'm wondering if Midnight Sun (I think that's the name of it) is still in the making.

:lol: Jacob's chapter titles were pretty funny.

Does anyone know a good Twilight website? I have been searching but cant seem to find a good enough one. Thanks!!

Does anyone know a good Twilight website? I have been searching but cant seem to find a good enough one. Thanks!!
Twilightersanonymous.com is a good one.

In regards to the amount Twilight haters vs. amount of Twilight fans on this forum: I think a lof Harry Potter fans really grasped onto Twilight for a new series to read between HP books (like me), and then got a little turned off when Smeyer and her books started being compares to JKR and HP. Personally I was like no, they didn't just go there - these books are entertaining, but they don't come close to HP. Those comparisons are what started my feeling a little animosity towards the series, and then Breaking Dawn sealed the deal. And I've seen a lot of other forums with HP fans who are former Twilight fans who went through the same kind of thing as I did. of course, i
m not saying this applies to everyone, i just know it's not uncommon.
That might very well be it. *nods sagely and strokes beard* Honestly half the time I forget this is an HP forum, because I spend so much time talking about other things than HP, heh.

I love Twilight. It was a good read and something entertaining to read to pass time.


Yeah, that's exactly how I felt about it. I was yearning for something like hp for awhile, ever since I finished deathly hallows. I remember going thru the eragon and golden compass series, but I just ended up rereading harry potter because the other two didn't engross me.

Then came the delay of half blood prince, which really left me bored and restless. I kept going into barnes and noble last summer, and the stephenie meyer display was pretty much right in front of my face as soon as I walked in the door. Still, I kept bypassing it because I just wasn't interested in vampires. Then one day I thought, why don't I just read the back cover and see what the fuss is all about. It still wasn't enough to get me to buy twilight. Then finally, out of sheer boredom, I bought it weeks later in october I think and then got hooked like everyone else:lol:

I recognize there are flaws but I somehow still enjoyed it and found the books really entertaining and strangely addictive.

I finished Breaking Dawn this morning - oh, oh, oh...wow. I just can't...put my finger on what makes this series so amazing. It's just sooo gripping (or dazzling :facepalm: - they really should make a :facepalm: smiley...:scared:). The thing is, in places I want to be annoyed that the characters are too perfect and that the writing commits so many literary crimes (which I picked up on at the time but cannot now remember) but I just...I just can't! One of the bits I found incredibly clever though was when the narration switched to Jacob - I found it incredible that Bella and Jacob were kept completely in character throughout these sections. I also found Jake's chapter titles hilarious. The ending was brilliant, if a bit...cheesy.

In a way though, I'm glad I've finished it, because all the time I was reading them, I was sacrificing my homework :whistle:.

It's hard for me to figure out what makes this series so addictive as well.. but I can't deny that it is. The second I started reading it. I just got completely sucked in :lol: Even the movie, which I initially couldn't stand, ended up growing on me too. It's weird but, I think like moriath said before, it's a guilty pleasure.

Does anyone know a good Twilight website? I have been searching but cant seem to find a good enough one. Thanks!!

There's tons, and everyone- which is a bit different from the hp fandom- is constantly swooning and getting "dazzled" :lol:, especially about the characters and the actors who play them:lol: It's actually a lot of fun and pretty hilarious- a haven to gush about silly things and be completely fangirlish without having anyone virtually throw tomatoes at you:lol:

Twilight anonymous is really good, twilight lexicon, and even twilight moms:lol:

I finished Breaking Dawn this morning - oh, oh, oh...wow. I just can't...put my finger on what makes this series so amazing. It's just sooo gripping (or dazzling :facepalm: - they really should make a :facepalm: smiley...:scared:). The thing is, in places I want to be annoyed that the characters are too perfect and that the writing commits so many literary crimes (which I picked up on at the time but cannot now remember) but I just...I just can't! One of the bits I found incredibly clever though was when the narration switched to Jacob - I found it incredible that Bella and Jacob were kept completely in character throughout these sections. I also found Jake's chapter titles hilarious. The ending was brilliant, if a bit...cheesy.

In a way though, I'm glad I've finished it, because all the time I was reading them, I was sacrificing my homework :whistle:.

I am also a Breaking Dawn supporter. It is one of my favorites in the series, just because of the way it went. Jacob redeemed himself in my eyes, even though I still don't like him. The chapter titles were SO FUNNY, and it was nice to see it in his PoV, no matter how much I didn't like the idea of it at first (especially with the surprising addition of his PoV in Eclipse!). I loved the way SMeyer brought a few of the storylines in. Bella becoming a vampire. Nessie coming into the world (I just love her!).

The ending was great, though like you said it was cheesy. I want more! And I mean sequels, not prequels! :lol:

I recognize there are flaws but I somehow still enjoyed it and found the books really entertaining and strangely addictive.


I totally agree. Its like a poorly written soap opera, you know there the flaws are there, but you still watch it religiously.


Here's a hypothetical: do you think Bella would still fall for Edward if he wasn't a vampire? Like if they lived in the same time period and he was a human, would she still fall for him?

Hypothetically, I highly doubt it. He wouldn't be so dazzling and other-worldly pretty, and he wouldn't be so intrigued by not being able to read her mind, which was pretty much how they started talking to each other. And she seemed to not really care about average cuteness, since she described Mike as cute but was never attracted to him. She was kinda snobby (not a problem, since I'm insanely stuck-up too) and didn't really like normal guys her age for the most part. If Edward hadn't been a vampire I think they probably wouldn't have hit it off and she would end up with Jacob.

I agree. Edward and bella only really hit it off because Edward was interesting to bella because he was a vamp and bella was only interesting to him because he had vampire powers.

midnight sun spoiler
and in midnight sun, apparently Alice had told Edward beforehand that he would end up falling in love with Bella and that Bella would be her best friend, which was partly why Edward started to try to get to know Bella.

Thanks PureBloodGirl!

I totally agree. Its like a poorly written soap opera, you know there the flaws are there, but you still watch it religiously.


Here's a hypothetical: do you think Bella would still fall for Edward if he wasn't a vampire? Like if they lived in the same time period and he was a human, would she still fall for him?


yeah, that's exactly right- it's like this cheesy soap opera that I can't stop watching:lol:

As for the other issue I don't think bella would have fallen for edward if he was not a vampire. It's too much of who he is at this point- the tragic hero. She likes the fact that he struggles so hard to be good and is attracted to that "tortured soul" persona. Part of his appeal is that bad boy/dangerous side to him. If he were not a vampire, he would probably be just another insipid, boring, mike newton to her:lol:

I'd forgotten the part about Alice filling him on all that stuff. That just solidifies if for me that they wouldn't end up together if Edward wasn't a vampire.

I agree with you guys, she wouldn't have gone for him if he weren't a vampire. He wouldn't be extremely pretty, he wouldn't smell good, and he wouldn't have a tortured soul. First, all of these aspects seem pretty shallow.

Second, did you guys notice that one of the themes of the series has been humans= bad/not as good as vampires?
Bella liked Edward because he is a vampire and is disinterested in human boys. She forsakes her human friends for the Cullens. She can't wait to become a vampire, and when she becomes one she is better at that than being human. What kind of message does this send? I think a bad one.

^Oh, absolutely. The idea that humans really don't stand a chance, no matter how clever or strong they are, is rampant throughout the series.

I agree with you guys, she wouldn't have gone for him if he weren't a vampire. He wouldn't be extremely pretty, he wouldn't smell good, and he wouldn't have a tortured soul. First, all of these aspects seem pretty shallow.

Second, did you guys notice that one of the themes of the series has been humans= bad/not as good as vampires?
Bella liked Edward because he is a vampire and is disinterested in human boys. She forsakes her human friends for the Cullens. She can't wait to become a vampire, and when she becomes one she is better at that than being human. What kind of message does this send? I think a bad one.


I remember reading in an interview of SM somewhere that she thought human characters were boring, so I think she kind of put some of that sentiment into bella. She was a lot more interested in the supernatural, and that's why she made the vampires these amazing creatures that bella wanted to be a part of. I guess that's why when I was reading twilight, I was also completely uninterested in any of the humans. It actually surprised me when I saw the film and the humans were pretty entertaining.

About the theme of the humans being hopeless in the series - it's definitely present, especially since SMeyer made her sparklepires invincible.
In her defense (yeah, I still don't like her, but whatever), I don't think Smeyer realized she was pretty much dissing the human race in some people's eyes. I think she was just really into her own vampire world where everyone was beautiful and sparkly, and to be fair most of the humans in her story didn't get much development and were thus very boring.
So while I do thing the books' tend to make the humans inadequate and un-special, I don't think Smeyer meant to show that.

EDIT: ^, ok, maybe she did want them to be boring. Still don't think she meant for them to be just completely useless.

I remember reading in an interview of SM somewhere that she thought human characters were boring, so I think she kind of put some of that sentiment into bella. She was a lot more interested in the supernatural, and that's why she made the vampires these amazing creatures that bella wanted to be a part of. I guess that's why when I was reading twilight, I was also completely uninterested in any of the humans. It actually surprised me when I saw the film and the humans were pretty entertaining.
I was also completely uninterested in the vampires as well :lol:

About the theme of the humans being hopeless in the series - it's definitely present, especially since SMeyer made her sparklepires invincible.
In her defense (yeah, I still don't like her, but whatever), I don't think Smeyer realized she was pretty much dissing the human race in some people's eyes. I think she was just really into her own vampire world where everyone was beautiful and sparkly, and to be fair most of the humans in her story didn't get much development and were thus very boring.
So while I do thing the books' tend to make the humans inadequate and un-special, I don't think Smeyer meant to show that.

EDIT: ^, ok, maybe she did want them to be boring. Still don't think she meant for them to be just completely useless.

I just thought she didn't feel that the humans were worthy enough to get much development or thought about :lol:.

I understand interest in the supernatural, but worship of it and hate of humanity? It seems like a bad message to send to people, "you suck unless you're a vampire" or some other crazy being. and human characters being boring? that is an awful thing to say, have a little pride woman! lol

in a good book, everyone's supposed to have their pros and cons, or well, species included, :lol:

I guess I've just read too many books and seen too many movies that glorify being a human.

well, i wouldn't mind it highlighting the bad things about being human, but Meyer's people were so unrealistically dull...

Where's that quote? I know there's an interview somewhere where SM addresses the 'anti-feminist' arguments that people have made against her by saying that 'if anything, [she's] anti-human.' So merry18, I think she did realize what she was doing. I'm....not sure how to approach that.

its somewhere in one of the twilight threads, i remember it being discussed.

I'm personally not a big fan of being human either :lol: but it's not like im very likely going to become a vampire in the next few days so i'd rather concentrate on trying to make the best of it rather than want to become a vamp :p

I can't find the actual quote. I am still not enough of a twilighter to know links,etc. :lol I just remember her saying that in one of the interviews I read- that she really had no interest in writing for the human characters. She was a lot more interested in the supernatural.

http://spesunica.wordpress.com/2008/12/17/why-meyers-claim-to-be-anti-human-is-anti-christian-the-incarnation/

“Meyer once retorted to critics who accused her of misogyny, “I am not anti-female; I am anti-human.” Whether she was aware of it or not, this was far more than just a flippant remark. Just like the allegedly positive messages about romance and sexuality, any value that Meyer and her characters place on human life is only on the surface.”

You see the evidence of this worldview in the books, especially after Bella is “turned” into a vampire. For example, see Breaking Dawn p.469 when she contrasts her prior “hideous human” face with her new “glorious immortal” vampire face.

i'm not much of a twilighter either, but apparently this is "famous" or whatever word you wanna use enough to be the first thing on google when you type in Stephenie Meyer Anti Human :lol:

edit: I'm still searching for hte original remark

http://www.stepheniemeyer.com/nm_thestory.html

I should probably mention here that I am not crazy (that I know of), it's just that I am a character writer. I write my stories because of my characters; they are the motivation and the reward. The difficulty with strong, defined characters, though, is that you can't make them do something that is out of character. They have to be who they are and, as a writer, they're often out of your control.

At least she has something of the right idea....even if she isn't particularly good at executing it :lol:

I emphatically reject the second accusation. I am all about girl power—look at Alice and Jane if you doubt that. I am not anti-female, I am anti-human. I wrote this story from the perspective of a female human because that came most naturally, as you might imagine. But if the narrator had been a male human, it would not have changed the events. When a human being is totally surrounded by creatures with supernatural strength, speed, senses, and various other uncanny powers, he or she is not going to be able to hold his or her own. Sorry. That's just the way it is. We can't all be slayers. Bella does pretty well I think, all things considered. She saves Edward, after all. Side note/rant over. Back to the story.)

Um...I can't find it in an interview, but this was on her site

ok, so what she said about humans not being able to hold their own....i've read a LOT of fantasy and in a lot of them, the authors have made humans reasonably strong in the face of supernatural creatures. For example, in Dresden Files, admittedly, the main character, harry dresden, is a wizard, but his surroundings are FAR FAR worse than Bella where a lot of creatures are actually trying to kill him or torturing him or trying to make a fool out of him, etc. and he actually has a backbone. In Harry Potter, Harry is given the responsibility of trying to kill one of the greatest dark wizards of his time....Bella hasn't been asked to do anything particularly extraordinary as a human and she just depends on her amazing sparkly vampire friends. And let me think, in the Uglies trilogy by Scott Westerfeld, the main character goes against not really supernatural creatures, but humans with the technology imbedded in their bodies that allows them to be superfast, superstrong, cruelly beautiful, superior technology, superior communication devices, etc and tally (main character) gets frightened of course, but she's still much stronger than bella. I can think of so many examples...way too many to list that were put in situations that make Bella's problems look like a walk in the park so I don't see what her problem is. Of coursee not ALL real people are that brave or anything, but it's a book, and if Meyer can have supernaturally awesome and beautiful vamps, I don't see why she can't have a regular human who actually has a backbone and her own mind.

Huh...I see I gave her way more credit than she deserves. Oh well, at least I know now never to defend an author I don't even like again.
And I know I've said it before, but her making humans totally helpless against her sparklepires just really, really irks me. ^ I have also read and watched a lot of fantasy where humans can hold their own against fantasy creatures. I know I make a lot of Buffy references, but whatever: Around season 4, Xander and Giles are pretty much the only normal people left in the Scooby gang, and then Dawn joins them when she comes into the picture. Facing fantasy creatures much stronger than them is kind of daily (ok, not so much for Dawn) but they still hold their own throughout the series (and survive the all those apocalypses). And obviously in Lord of the Rings the hobbits encounter all these things they'd never even dreamed of and have to fight all those monsters and they still manage to become heroes when it's all over.
The fact that Smeyer wants her fantasy creatures to be more special than in all these other fantasy worlds just makes her seem really self-satisfied in my eyes. I've read a lot od her interviews, and she tends to come off really egotistical about her series and the characters she created, in my opinion.

actually, sometimes, characters can be a bit unrealistic, but having no personality is just as unrealistic as being exceptionally brave, which i actually find more believable

It seems a little fatalistic to me. Like the regular humans have NO CHANCE no matter what they do. It almost has that "if you can't beat them, join them" flavor to it, which has always bothered me.

And what kind of message does that send to the people reading it? As long as you're human, you're never good enough? Don't get me wrong - I'm glad Bella got vamped in the end. But I wanted her transition to go a little differently. (I've talked about this before, but I'll go into it again for the new people.) You know how she's always complaining that she's plain looking and so boring in comparison to Edward and Co.? When she woke up and looked at herself in the mirror, I had this idea that she would look exactly the same and then realize, "Hey, maybe I was good enough on the outside all along!" I still don't understand exactly what the change was supposed to look like - how do you look like yourself still, but more perfect? I mean, really? The only movie I've seen that goes in that direction is Death Becomes Her, and in that one the heroines have to learn the hard way that beauty is not worth the price they paid for it. Bella never has that dream shattered - she's always under the delusion that youth, beauty and physical strength are more important than anything else, and that's why she wanted to be a vampire. It wasn't to be with Edward, even - oh no. It was to be young and beautiful and vampire-strong with Edward.

Now, just to be clear: I'm on board with the all-vampires-are-beautiful thing. I know there's a school of thought out there that thinks vamps should be more normal-looking, or they're just over all this talk of gorgeous monsters. But I'm not one of them. Vampires ought to be sexy - they're the rock stars of the supernatural universe. (In fact, one of my main beefs with Buffy was that the vampires had those disgusting Klingon foreheads.) It might sound superficial, but think about it: They're predators. They trap their prey by being alluring and enticing, by making the food come to them.

HOWEVER, that does not mean that humans can't be drop-dead awesome too. There's no need for the comparison, as far as I'm concerned. I never understood Bella's constant need to place herself next to Edward and decide she wasn't good enough for him. I mean, she got the man of her dreams in book one - why couldn't she just be happy about that, in lieu of wondering what he saw in her? (Is this a female trend I'm not aware of? Thinking that your crush, who is gorgeous and talented at everything, is too good for you? Because frankly, I've never had that problem...)

Yeah, Bella's obsession with being young, beautiful, and strong really is, in my opinion, the worst message of the series. She obsesses about not being as beautiful as the Cullens and thinks everything in a normal life isn't as good as being young, hot, and strong. And the fact that there weer no repercussions - jeez! She was supposed to have to give up her family, which is the only thing she (rightly) felt really hesitant about, and in the end she doesn't have to. It's just a horrible message for readers to think that being all that superficial stuff is worth giving up your entire life for, regardless of the whole love thing (I could go on for days about that one).

Yeah, Bella's obsession with being young, beautiful, and strong really is, in my opinion, the worst message of the series. She obsesses about not being as beautiful as the Cullens and thinks everything in a normal life isn't as good as being young, hot, and strong. And the fact that there weer no repercussions - jeez! She was supposed to have to give up her family, which is the only thing she (rightly) felt really hesitant about, and in the end she doesn't have to. It's just a horrible message for readers to think that being all that superficial stuff is worth giving up your entire life for, regardless of the whole love thing (I could go on for days about that one).


Do you think that it was just a coincidence that all Bella loved was beautiful because she loved Edward? Like Edward just happened to be pretty, and she is in love with him so in turn she loves beauty? Or does the series jsut glorify loving beautiful things?

I think it's half an half. Being around Edward and the Cullens really intensified her focus on beauty and is what made her want it so badly, in my opinion. And I also do think the series glorifies beauty because, as I've said before, everyone good is beautiful and the only average (James) and a little off (the three Volturi guys) looking vampires were bad. Not to mention, of course, half (not literally) of each book is pretty much decriptions of how beautiful Edward and his family are.

It seems a little fatalistic to me. Like the regular humans have NO CHANCE no matter what they do. It almost has that "if you can't beat them, join them" flavor to it, which has always bothered me.
it completely goes against my attitude of "if you can't beat them, either ignore or fight to the death" :lol:

And what kind of message does that send to the people reading it? As long as you're human, you're never good enough? Don't get me wrong - I'm glad Bella got vamped in the end. But I wanted her transition to go a little differently. (I've talked about this before, but I'll go into it again for the new people.) You know how she's always complaining that she's plain looking and so boring in comparison to Edward and Co.? When she woke up and looked at herself in the mirror, I had this idea that she would look exactly the same and then realize, "Hey, maybe I was good enough on the outside all along!" I still don't understand exactly what the change was supposed to look like - how do you look like yourself still, but more perfect? I mean, really? The only movie I've seen that goes in that direction is Death Becomes Her, and in that one the heroines have to learn the hard way that beauty is not worth the price they paid for it. Bella never has that dream shattered - she's always under the delusion that youth, beauty and physical strength are more important than anything else, and that's why she wanted to be a vampire. It wasn't to be with Edward, even - oh no. It was to be young and beautiful and vampire-strong with Edward.
My view of beauty if rather strange. I can't quite put my finger on it, but there's just some quality that can make someone completely ugly look beautiful, I don't know what, but part of it's self confidence and the feeling that someone knows their worthy or feels happy that makes looking at them more comfortable, or maybe a certain aura of sadness that makes you want to help them. Really, anything can make someone look beautiful in my eyes. Either that, or i've looked at so much abstract art and fallen in love with it all to find anything conventionally ugly anymore :lol:

Now, just to be clear: I'm on board with the all-vampires-are-beautiful thing. I know there's a school of thought out there that thinks vamps should be more normal-looking, or they're just over all this talk of gorgeous monsters. But I'm not one of them. Vampires ought to be sexy - they're the rock stars of the supernatural universe. (In fact, one of my main beefs with Buffy was that the vampires had those disgusting Klingon foreheads.) It might sound superficial, but think about it: They're predators. They trap their prey by being alluring and enticing, by making the food come to them.
i completely agree, even if it is superficial :lol:

HOWEVER, that does not mean that humans can't be drop-dead awesome too. There's no need for the comparison, as far as I'm concerned. I never understood Bella's constant need to place herself next to Edward and decide she wasn't good enough for him. I mean, she got the man of her dreams in book one - why couldn't she just be happy about that, in lieu of wondering what he saw in her? (Is this a female trend I'm not aware of? Thinking that your crush, who is gorgeous and talented at everything, is too good for you? Because frankly, I've never had that problem...)
I'm starting to think it's basic human nature....My friend has a boyfriend who seems to always think he's not worthy for her, (but I suspect he just wants to break up with her)

Yeah, Bella's obsession with being young, beautiful, and strong really is, in my opinion, the worst message of the series. She obsesses about not being as beautiful as the Cullens and thinks everything in a normal life isn't as good as being young, hot, and strong. And the fact that there weer no repercussions - jeez! She was supposed to have to give up her family, which is the only thing she (rightly) felt really hesitant about, and in the end she doesn't have to. It's just a horrible message for readers to think that being all that superficial stuff is worth giving up your entire life for, regardless of the whole love thing (I could go on for days about that one).
Just goes back to guilty pleasure really, people read Twilight so they can escape into a beautiful wonderful, fluffy, sparkly, perfect world where nothing truly bad happens, or it all works out for the best later on.

Do you think that it was just a coincidence that all Bella loved was beautiful because she loved Edward? Like Edward just happened to be pretty, and she is in love with him so in turn she loves beauty? Or does the series jsut glorify loving beautiful things?
i do'nt know...im facing a similar problem actually. Well, I'm not in love with a person, i just love art to the point where i'm connecting art with everything and loving everything to the point where i'm not sure whehter or not it's healthy :lol:, while at the same time hating a lot of things :lol:, I don't know...:hmm:, it's really confusing me.

I think it's half an half. Being around Edward and the Cullens really intensified her focus on beauty and is what made her want it so badly, in my opinion. And I also do think the series glorifies beauty because, as I've said before, everyone good is beautiful and the only average (James) and a little off (the three Volturi guys) looking vampires were bad. Not to mention, of course, half (not literally) of each book is pretty much decriptions of how beautiful Edward and his family are.I think it was that she got plunged into a new world that she loved where she was the odd one out, human nature i guess

I think it was that she got plunged into a new world that she loved where she was the odd one out, human nature i guess

Yes, that probably had a lot to do with it.

That being said, it's one thing to feel insecure about your looks when you're surrounded by beautiful people (like I would be if I ever came face to face with Heidi Klum or Tyra Banks) but it's just really shallow (in my opinion) the way Bella just starts desperately wishing she could be a vampire so she could be as beautiful as they are over and over and over and over, etc. I know that's not the only reason she wants to be a vampire (love..yuck), but she thinks about it so much that it just bugs the **** out of me more than the other reasons.

Yes, that probably had a lot to do with it.

That being said, it's one thing to feel insecure about your looks when you're surrounded by beautiful people (like I would be if I ever came face to face with Heidi Klum or Tyra Banks) but it's just really shallow (in my opinion) the way Bella just starts desperately wishing she could be a vampire so she could be as beautiful as they are over and over and over and over, etc. I know that's not the only reason she wants to be a vampire (love..yuck), but she thinks about it so much that it just bugs the **** out of me more than the other reasons.


I agree that it would be normal for someone to feel ugly when surrounded by a lot of beautiful people all the time. But this is a book, and I think it would not be unrealistic for Bella to be strong and feel proud of herself, at least a little bit. I get that she is insecure in order for people to identify with her, but i think it would be a good example for younger people to have a role model that liked herself

Is it too much to ask to have strong female characters?

Apparently! :lol:, I can understand where Bella is coming from, but I think that confidence is something that might have come to her later; not just on her becoming a vampire.

I always sort of felt that it would be a good developmental arc to have her grow more into herself and assert herself a little more.

I guess she did grow when she was a vampire. she went to go see that mr j guy all by herself. Does this one example count? it seems weak to me...

She did grow up as a vampire, but it's so sudden - that's why it feels so uncomfortable and forced. Like, beforehand, as a human, she was nothing special. Regardless of Edward's insistence otherwise. But then, the second she's a vampire, she becomes tough and brave and physically indestructible. It's just too easy. There's no development - it's just 'I'm a vampire now, therefore I'm awesome!'

i agree. She didn't even have to sort of get used to being a vampire too much

lol apparently she was so god at being a vampire, she didn't need to get used to it. She was meant to be a vampire, not a human.

I find that pretty unbelievable and idealistic.

I find that pretty unbelievable and idealistic.

I also thought that it was a cop-out. I mean, we read I don't know how often that newborns are irrational, uncontrollable, violent and constantly thirsty...and then we get nothing. Bella is too perfect to be inconvenienced by trivial things like blood thirst. :lol: I was very disappointed.

Yeah, it was one thing to let her get away with no consequences from her human life - like giving up her family - but it was just ridiculous that she didn't even have to deal with being a newborn. I mean, all the others had the absolute worst time getting over human blood, and it took her all of five second. Come on, SMeyer! Give us some real conflict, not just some "chess game" deal.

a chess game is more complex than the Twilight series :p. And yeah, she definitely needed a harder time. Except for Alice, they all left friends and family and had a tough time getting over thirst, especially poor Carlisle

I really didn't like Bella's attitude towards Jacob. It's like, to Edward she's so wonderful and sweet, but to Jake she's like so mean. Come on girl, show us less hypocripsy!

She did grow up as a vampire, but it's so sudden - that's why it feels so uncomfortable and forced. Like, beforehand, as a human, she was nothing special. Regardless of Edward's insistence otherwise. But then, the second she's a vampire, she becomes tough and brave and physically indestructible. It's just too easy. There's no development - it's just 'I'm a vampire now, therefore I'm awesome!'

I think the only reason I read the first book was because she was so clumsy it was hilarious. Book 4 was lame because she didn't trip over anything. "World's clumsiest vampire" would have been the best way to go in my opinion.

world's clumsiest vampire :rotfl:, that would've been great, but I doubt Meyer would ever make Bella anything less than her idea of perfect

I think the only reason I read the first book was because she was so clumsy it was hilarious. Book 4 was lame because she didn't trip over anything. "World's clumsiest vampire" would have been the best way to go in my opinion.
Dude. Write a fanfic. "World's Clumsiest Vampire" is too good a title to pass up!

"World's Clumsiest Vampire" oh wow, that killed me. That would have made BD about twenty times better!

Yeah! World's clumbsiest, klutziest vamp! I wished BD would have been written that way. It would have been comical.

Can't you just see her taking a wrong turn in her cocktail-dress-frolic through the forest and knocking the trees down like dominos?

Oh, if it had been pitched as a comedy, what fun could have been had.....

Can't you just see her taking a wrong turn in her cocktail-dress-frolic through the forest and knocking the trees down like dominos?

Oh, if it had been pitched as a comedy, what fun could have been had.....


lol:lol:

she's like the Juggernaut from x-men!

:lol: World's Clumsiest Vampire! That would've been great!

I'm so glad to see that I'm not the only one who was bothered by Bella becoming perfectly brave, graceful and amazing the second she became a vampire.

Personally, my disillusionment with the series started when Edward came back in New Moon. I'd been hoping and hoping that his going away would make Bella more assertive and help her stand up to him a bit (like being weaned off his presence or something). The incredible hurt she felt should have made her realize that he was less then perfect and stopped her idol worship of him. But no...perfect opportunity for character development completely wasted!

I kept reading because I wanted to see what happened when she became a vampire. :no: Should've just stopped after the first book.

well, i think meyer's idea of "clumsy" in the vampire world is messy eating and accidentally ripping dresses i guess :shrug:

but honestly, World's Clumsiest Vampire would be AMAZING!!

"And then I accidentally tripped over a root because I was too busy thinking about Edward's beauty to watch where I was going. The black leather pumps I was wearing caught a tree root when I was running, I then fell and ripped the Valentino gown Alice bought me for my birthday, HOW DARE SHE BUY ME ANYTHING???? Anyway, how will I fix this rip...I truly am the world's clumsiest vampire."

would it go something like this?

But no...perfect opportunity for character development completely wasted!

I felt the same at the beginning of Breaking Dawn. There is some character development at the end of Eclipse, when Bella has the choice to get Edward the way she always wanted or do things his way. Edward realises that pushing her was wrong, which is also character development. But Breaking Dawn starts as if Meyer pressed the reset button and Bella is back to complaining about the injustice of it all.

"And then I accidentally tripped over a root because I was too busy thinking about Edward's beauty to watch where I was going. The black leather pumps I was wearing caught a tree root when I was running, I then fell and ripped the Valentino gown Alice bought me for my birthday, HOW DARE SHE BUY ME ANYTHING???? Anyway, how will I fix this rip...I truly am the world's clumsiest vampire."

would it go something like this?

:rotfl: Wonderful! Here's something from me :p

Edward: Bells, (if I were Bella and he called me 'Bells', I would rip his head off, honestly) have you seen my grey sweatshirt?

Bella: Nope. *uses super-scent to find it* Here it is! I...woops! *trips over a the carpet, breaks the TV with one hand, and breaks a vase with another* Oops.

Edward: You are the world's clumsiest vampire.

Bella: :p

Edward: But I like it. *kiss*

(Oh my gosh. I can't believe I actually wrote that.)

I felt the same at the beginning of Breaking Dawn. There is some character development at the end of Eclipse, when Bella has the choice to get Edward the way she always wanted or do things his way. Edward realises that pushing her was wrong, which is also character development. But Breaking Dawn starts as if Meyer pressed the reset button and Bella is back to complaining about the injustice of it all.

Bella is incapable of standing up to the man she loves. Sometimes, I feel like shaking her and saying: "GIRL! Just because you have gotten yourself a boyfriend doesn't mean that you have to DO everything he says. Get some backbone already!" Honestly speaking, this ain't love. It's like slavery.

^Preaching to the choir, my friend.

Eclipse really is the best developed novel of the lot for several reasons, the bold attempt at character development being one of them. That book gave us Confederate!Jasper, and I'll always love it for that reason alone. (Jacob's personality 180 was not one of reasons for its high place in my mind, and I maintain that was a bad idea. I'm still creeped out by the fact that Bella didn't decide she loved him to until after he force-kissed her. Blaarrrggh!)

Breaking Dawn is just one gaping plothole after another. I wonder if, since she wrote the draft of that before the middle two books were even conceived, she had the same sorts of ideas (Bella's nervous allergy to marriage, Jacob getting all possessive, vampires taking precedence over family, etc.) and left them underdeveloped as side-plots that weren't really important. But then she wrote these other two books, in which those ideas are explored in more detail, but chose not to eradicate them from the last novel in the final draft. So we get a capsule summary/partial reenactment of New Moon and Eclipse in the first couple of chapters instead of just picking up the thread of the story and moving forward.

Also: Man. I am still so surprised that they got married so early in the book. The last time I read a book with a wedding that close to the front, it was crashed by Death Eaters. (From Cleolinda's Breaking Dawn recap. Not linking because of the foul language.)

The wedding totally should be at the end of Eclipse. That would have given us the warm fuzzy ending without the "wait, what?" happening all around the Volturi un-battle in the fourth book. NOT TO SAY THE FOURTH BOOK SHOULDN'T HAVE HAPPENED, but it feels and reads so differently than the other three, it should either exist as its own entity, or be the beginning of an entirely different series. NOT that I want her to write more, but I mean.....just think about it. Vampire!Bella? Multiple POV chapters? Little Nessie and Jacob? It's a whole 'nother animal.

:rotfl: Wonderful! Here's something from me :p

Edward: Bells, (if I were Bella and he called me 'Bells', I would rip his head off, honestly) have you seen my grey sweatshirt?

Bella: Nope. *uses super-scent to find it* Here it is! I...woops! *trips over a the carpet, breaks the TV with one hand, and breaks a vase with another* Oops.

Edward: You are the world's clumsiest vampire.

Bella: :p

Edward: But I like it. *kiss*

(Oh my gosh. I can't believe I actually wrote that.)
Ok, ignoring the feeling sick factor, hilarious :rotfl:


Bella is incapable of standing up to the man she loves. Sometimes, I feel like shaking her and saying: "GIRL! Just because you have gotten yourself a boyfriend doesn't mean that you have to DO everything he says. Get some backbone already!" Honestly speaking, this ain't love. It's like slavery.
I find it hilarious how complaining about BD never gets old :lol:

^Preaching to the choir, my friend.

Eclipse really is the best developed novel of the lot for several reasons, the bold attempt at character development being one of them. That book gave us Confederate!Jasper, and I'll always love it for that reason alone. (Jacob's personality 180 was not one of reasons for its high place in my mind, and I maintain that was a bad idea. I'm still creeped out by the fact that Bella didn't decide she loved him to until after he force-kissed her. Blaarrrggh!)

Breaking Dawn is just one gaping plothole after another. I wonder if, since she wrote the draft of that before the middle two books were even conceived, she had the same sorts of ideas (Bella's nervous allergy to marriage, Jacob getting all possessive, vampires taking precedence over family, etc.) and left them underdeveloped as side-plots that weren't really important. But then she wrote these other two books, in which those ideas are explored in more detail, but chose not to eradicate them from the last novel in the final draft. So we get a capsule summary/partial reenactment of New Moon and Eclipse in the first couple of chapters instead of just picking up the thread of the story and moving forward.

Also: (From Cleolinda's Breaking Dawn recap. Not linking because of the foul language.)

The wedding totally should be at the end of Eclipse. That would have given us the warm fuzzy ending without the "wait, what?" happening all around the Volturi un-battle in the fourth book. NOT TO SAY THE FOURTH BOOK SHOULDN'T HAVE HAPPENED, but it feels and reads so differently than the other three, it should either exist as its own entity, or be the beginning of an entirely different series. NOT that I want her to write more, but I mean.....just think about it. Vampire!Bella? Multiple POV chapters? Little Nessie and Jacob? It's a whole 'nother animal.

eclipse and twilight are definitely the best. Well, more eclipse. Twilight was a bit too fairy taleish but since it was hte first, it wasn't nearly as annoying to read about Edward as it got in New Moon and Eclipse

I agree that Eclipse is the best. The story is the best thought out and least annoying.

The wedding totally should be at the end of Eclipse. That would have given us the warm fuzzy ending without the "wait, what?" happening all around the Volturi un-battle in the fourth book. NOT TO SAY THE FOURTH BOOK SHOULDN'T HAVE HAPPENED,

You wouldn't? I think that a trilogy would have been the better choice.

I definitely think a trilogy would've been a better choice. Edward and Bella could have a bit more time together at hte end of New Moon, Edward either proposes at end of New Moon or beginning of Eclipse, then eclipse would be about them debating about it, wedding takes place somewhere around the middle, bella gets turned into a vampire at the 3/4 mark and hte rest is about bella as a vamp. That would've been so much better for me

I finished reading the Twilight series a few weeks ago and I do not find myself going back for second helpings of the series. Bella annoyed me so much. I could never dream of choosing a cold life over my family. Never knowing whether I would hurt them or not. It is a struggle I could do without.

Edward was the perfect gentleman. I must agree with everyone, it was a beautiful change in what we are used to. He respected Bella enough to wait.

The first book was great, I loved it. As the series progressed, it seemed rushed. The Twilight Saga had promise. An amazing "plot". A new-age writer. I don't know what happen.

I'm a thinker and must admit that this series is purely entertainment with nothing for me to think about.:p

You wouldn't? I think that a trilogy would have been the better choice.
No, not really. The fourth book had quite a few things that I thought were cool - such as Jacob's narration, the noir-ish mini-drama with J. Jenks, the dynamics of the wolf pack once it split into two - it feels like the beginning of something else to me, something more interesting than Bella and Edward's relationship, which bored me half to death in the first place. Now, if we could just rewrite "Nessie" as that random girl in Port Angeles who was into cars - that way we dispense with the stupid baby stuff and get Jake a girl who actually suits him as something other than a fated-from-birth ~*Soul Mate*~ - do you see where I'm going with this? The Volturi still need to be taken down, and another series (sans Bella and Edward) would be the way to do it.

The Trilogy (if we can pretend it is one) could be focused just on Bella and Edward, their relationship, that nonsense with Victoria and the crazy Seattle vamps, and just stay a teen-friendly melodrama about two naive young Mary Sue and Gary Stu type characters falling in love and living happily ever after. The next series would be about the rest of this supernatural universe, the other characters in the story, and how they deal with the crumbling fiefdoms around them.

She shouldn't have just left it the way it is - I agree with that part, definitely. But the fourth book introduces some ideas and questions that have enormous potential. Just how much longer are the Volturi going to remain in power? How is the wolf pack going to survive with two alphas? Now that the Cullens have 'graduated' from Forks High, where do they go next? And what exactly did Jasper do to J. Jenks anyway to make him so freaked-out and compliant?

I'm thinking more of fanfic ideas than anything else, by the way. SM's done. I don't think she cares enough about the rest of her characters to do anything further with them.

well, i think that New Moon was fairly pointless. Just say that we didn't make Breaking Dawn Eclipse, and we made Eclipse New Moon and Breaking Dawn Eclipse, that would've been so much nicer.

The first book was great, I loved it. As the series progressed, it seemed rushed. The Twilight Saga had promise. An amazing "plot". A new-age writer. I don't know what happen.

really? I felt it was WAY too slow and dull

I felt the first book was good, except for how the James/Victoria plot line was tagged on at the end with no foreshadow at all. If Meyer had put some indication that they would come along, it would have been a better book. Putting aside other flaws like talking about Edwards beauty too much, I thought it was ok

[QUOTE=Aidyan;5249922]
Edward was the perfect gentleman. I must agree with everyone, it was a beautiful change in what we are used to. He respected Bella enough to wait.

Yes, I think that's why his character is so popular. I know a lot of people have called edward a "control freak", etc. and dislike him for being too overbearing and protective. While I acknowledge that aspect, I really liked the fact he was this old world gentleman. It was such a refreshing change to see a male character "waiting" for once. To see how rare it is in the real world, when I mentioned that to some male colleagues of mine at work they literally almost fell to the floor laughing. They said that was the most absurd thing they had ever heard!!! My friend ( who is another fan of the books) and I just rolled our eyes and resigned ourselves to the fact that a perfect guy clearly only exists in the fictional creation from the imagination of a female writer.



The first book was great, I loved it. As the series progressed, it seemed rushed. The Twilight Saga had promise. An amazing "plot". A new-age writer. I don't know what happen.


I thought BD was a bit rushed. I actually thought SM was going to have bella go to dartmouth, etc and have a whole slew of adventures there and not have her become a vampire just yet. I certainly didn't expect the wedding, honeymoon, baby and bella getting turned all within the first half of the 4th book. I would have been happier if the whole baby thing happened a couple of books later.

I agree that Eclipse is the best. The story is the best thought out and least annoying.

Yes, I think eclipse was the most well balance and the best writing wise. It had just the right amount of romance and action to satisfy everyone. We had the love triangle tension (Fire and ice is still one of my favorite chapters), and actually got a battle at the end. We also got a lot more character development, especially with respect to the backstory of the cullens as well as the wolf tribe. I loved jasper's backstory the best. I really hope they keep that in the movie. Rosalie's was fine too, as well as the tale of the third wife's sacrifice.

I think cinematically eclipse will be the best as well. I liked twilight and new moon as well, but they were a lot simpler plot wise. I think they were more about the love story of bella and edward than anything else. Twilight was really about bella and edward falling in love, and new moon was about the devastation that follows when love is lost. I kind of think of them as going hand in hand. I wouldn't even know where to categorize BD. It was such a departure from the first 3.

the problem with the twilight series is that the only way i can really think of putting them on film is in a montage. Twilight in theaters wasn't really done according to the book for me, even if it made Bella seem way better, but really, for New Moon, not much action really happens, or maybe that's just me knowing nothing about movies. Eclipse will be great on film though. BD....well...we'll see

I thought Twilight was good as a movie, but a agree that it will be hard to translate BD into a movie. I dunno, maybe because I skimmed most of that book because it was all "I miss Edward blah blah blah"

all it takes to make the twilight series into a movie is a slideshow of Edward pictures and some talking in the background :rotfl:

originally posted by phoenix88
Yes, I think that's why his character is so popular. I know a lot of people have called edward a "control freak", etc. and dislike him for being too overbearing and protective. While I acknowledge that aspect, I really liked the fact he was this old world gentleman. It was such a refreshing change to see a male character "waiting" for once. To see how rare it is in the real world, when I mentioned that to some male colleagues of mine at work they literally almost fell to the floor laughing. They said that was the most absurd thing they had ever heard!!! My friend ( who is another fan of the books) and I just rolled our eyes and resigned ourselves to the fact that a perfect guy clearly only exists in the fictional creation from the imagination of a female writer.

I'm not going to lie. I'm one of those people. I don't hate Edward, but I do not see him as the perfect guy, mostly because he is a control freak. I take issue with the fact that after Edward came back he was the one with the trust issues. Bella should be the one not trusting Edward. He left her. Yet, Edward is the one who won't let Bella go visit Jacob despite the fact that he left her for so many months with no other friends except the werewolves. He should just be happy that they kept Bella from going insane. But no, once he's back, Bella obviously doesn't need them anymore so he won't let her go see them. The fact that she has to escape her boyfriend to spend a day with her best friend disturbs me and I just can't fangirl Edward after that.

And I am by no means picky. My favorite fictional guys are the ones with flaws, like Ron, Noah from the Notebook, James Potter, and so forth. It's just that Edward's flaws are flaws that I can not except or that he really seems to out grow. He continues to decide what is good for Bella and what isn't (including refusing to have sex with her after he's already proven he can control himself...surely it would get easier). SMeyer can say all she wants about Bella being a feminist hero, but I don't buy it as long as Edward is the one making the decisions and ignoring Bella's opinion.

I do agree it is nice to see a guy who wants to wait though. I do give Edward props for that, but the rest of it...:no:

the problem with Edward is that on a small scale, he acts really really nice to Bella and is a perfect gentleman, but once you see the big picture, he can really be a jerk.

I was reallly wanting Bella and Jacob to get together, but she couldn't see past Edward. It seemed as though it took Edward for her to get a little confidence.

I'm not going to lie. I'm one of those people. I don't hate Edward, but I do not see him as the perfect guy, mostly because he is a control freak. I take issue with the fact that after Edward came back he was the one with the trust issues. Bella should be the one not trusting Edward. He left her. Yet, Edward is the one who won't let Bella go visit Jacob despite the fact that he left her for so many months with no other friends except the werewolves. He should just be happy that they kept Bella from going insane. But no, once he's back, Bella obviously doesn't need them anymore so he won't let her go see them. The fact that she has to escape her boyfriend to spend a day with her best friend disturbs me and I just can't fangirl Edward after that.

And I am by no means picky. My favorite fictional guys are the ones with flaws, like Ron, Noah from the Notebook, James Potter, and so forth. It's just that Edward's flaws are flaws that I can not except or that he really seems to out grow. He continues to decide what is good for Bella and what isn't (including refusing to have sex with her after he's already proven he can control himself...surely it would get easier). SMeyer can say all she wants about Bella being a feminist hero, but I don't buy it as long as Edward is the one making the decisions and ignoring Bella's opinion.

I do agree it is nice to see a guy who wants to wait though. I do give Edward props for that, but the rest of it...:no:
Thank. You. :tu:

And I'll take it a step further and say that Edward's wanting to wait until marriage on the sex thing isn't 'gentlemanly' but just one more aspect of his wanting to control every aspect of their relationship.

He leaves Bella in New Moon 'for her own good' because it's too dangerous for her to be hanging out with vampires all the time. (Fact check: The only 'good' vampire that ever had any trouble not-killing Bella, ever, is Jasper. Is there a reason he and Alice couldn't just go off on their own and let Edward stay in Forks?)

He refuses to change her (only for 1500-ish pages, but still) into a vampire because he's convinced that will condemn her to hell, or something - I'm still fuzzy on why he's reluctant to do this, actually. (Did he learn nothing from Papa Cullen, seriously?)

He won't let her see Jacob because werewolves are too dangerous now, regardless of the fact that they're the ones who pretty much took care of her after he dumped and her and rendered her catatonic for however many months that was. (Selective short term memory, much?)

He insists on holding off on the sex until marriage, because one must never have sex until marriage, regardless of how the other person - the one you're trying to convince to get married - feels on the subject. Phoenix, I know it seems like the guys you described this situation to were being callous or crude, but listen to me: Holding off on the sex is something that usually happens at the female's request. Yes, that's a gross overgeneralization, but just bear with me for a sec. If the girl decides she's ready, and the guy still doesn't want to, I'd be suspicious. Questions would start to arise. Why not? Are you not attracted to me? Are you gay? (109-year-old virgin, didn't look twice in Tanya's direction, or in any other female's direction in those 109 years - I'm just sayin'.) Are you seeing someone else behind my back? (I'm drawing this scenario from personal experience, by the way - this issue is one of the reasons I left my ex-boyfriend. Turned out to be that last one.)

Now, Bella and Edward do actually have a heart-to-heart about this, so I'll hand it to them for that at least. HOWEVER, the reason Edward eventually gives is the same one he gave for not wanting her to be a vamp - he thinks the sex before marriage thing will condemn her (or in this case, both of them) to hell. Bella makes it clear that doesn't agree with this idea, and in fact thinks it's silly, but he puts his foot down on it anyway. If I were in Bella's position, I would have realized at that point that Edward and I did not share the same values, and perhaps this relationship was not going to work. But no - Bella eventually just goes along with it. Why? Not to protect her virtue. Or because she's decided waiting is important. Or because she's respecting Edward's right to wait if he's not comfortable - if this had been the reason, I would have been more supportive of them both. It's pretty much just because Edward Said So. And that, ladies, is why this no-sex thing doesn't strike me as gentlemanly. It has nothing to do with what Bella wants. It's ALL about Edward. Just one more thing to file under Because Edward Said So.

He insists on holding off on the sex until marriage, because one must never have sex until marriage, regardless of how the other person - the one you're trying to convince to get married - feels on the subject. Phoenix, I know it seems like the guys you described this situation to were being callous or crude, but listen to me: Holding off on the sex is something that usually happens at the female's request. Yes, that's a gross overgeneralization, but just bear with me for a sec. If the girl decides she's ready, and the guy still doesn't want to, I'd be suspicious. Questions would start to arise. Why not? Are you not attracted to me? Are you gay? (109-year-old virgin, didn't look twice in Tanya's direction, or in any other female's direction in those 109 years - I'm just sayin'.) Are you seeing someone else behind my back? (I'm drawing this scenario from personal experience, by the way - this issue is one of the reasons I left my ex-boyfriend. Turned out to be that last one.)

Now, Bella and Edward do actually have a heart-to-heart about this, so I'll hand it to them for that at least. HOWEVER, the reason Edward eventually gives is the same one he gave for not wanting her to be a vamp - he thinks the sex before marriage thing will condemn her (or in this case, both of them) to hell. Bella makes it clear that doesn't agree with this idea, and in fact thinks it's silly, but he puts his foot down on it anyway. If I were in Bella's position, I would have realized at that point that Edward and I did not share the same values, and perhaps this relationship was not going to work. But no - Bella eventually just goes along with it. Why? Not to protect her virtue. Or because she's decided waiting is important. Or because she's respecting Edward's right to wait if he's not comfortable - if this had been the reason, I would have been more supportive of them both. It's pretty much just because Edward Said So. And that, ladies, is why this no-sex thing doesn't strike me as gentlemanly. It has nothing to do with what Bella wants. It's ALL about Edward. Just one more thing to file under Because Edward Said So.


I'm going to have to disagree about the sex thing. Usually it is the male pressuring a girl to have sex, Bella and Edward flipped their gender roles on this. I don't really see the problem here. Edward was not ready. If Bella wasn't ready and Edward was pressuring her, we would just add that to the list of his jerky qualities. But since Bella is doing the pressuring and Edward is saying no, we are supposed to assume he's gay/cheating? I can't accept this. Guys are allowed to be unsure about sex too.

Obviously pre-marital sex is condemned by the Moron church, so Meyer is slipping that value into the books. Edward wanting to wait is obviously the right choice within the books because the books have to reflect those religious values. That is also fine with me.

I feel that Meyer did a good job on the sex issue. She didn't want to encourage teenage sex, but she never condemned Bella or Edward's sexuality. Edward never said to Bella, "you slut/whatever nasty name" because she wanted to have sex. Her sexuality was not the issue, which I think is a really good thing to promote.

I'm going to have to disagree about the sex thing. Usually it is the male pressuring a girl to have sex, Bella and Edward flipped their gender roles on this. I don't really see the problem here. Edward was not ready. If Bella wasn't ready and Edward was pressuring her, we would just add that to the list of his jerky qualities. But since Bella is doing the pressuring and Edward is saying no, we are supposed to assume he's gay/cheating? I can't accept this. Guys are allowed to be unsure about sex too.

Obviously pre-marital sex is condemned by the Moron church, so Meyer is slipping that value into the books. Edward wanting to wait is obviously the right choice within the books because the books have to reflect those religious values. That is also fine with me.

I feel that Meyer did a good job on the sex issue. She didn't want to encourage teenage sex, but she never condemned Bella or Edward's sexuality. Edward never said to Bella, "you slut/whatever nasty name" because she wanted to have sex. Her sexuality was not the issue, which I think is a really good thing to promote.

I agree with this. And while I hate these books and some of the values they portray, I also agree about Smeyer's portrayal of premarital sex. Personally, I don't reallly care about it - I'm an atheist and thus don't hold to all those religious type rules and stuff - but I think it was very refreshing for a popular teen book to say hey, it's OK to wait. I didn't like how it was written - shocker, I know - because I felt that Bella seemed really out of character everytime she was throwing herself at him I felt weird just reading it, but I was glad Smeyer went against the grain on this one. There are so many forms of pop culture that treat teen/premarital sex as A-okay to the point where it's almost blatantly promoted sometimes, and I think it's important that such a popular book is different in that respect, because it's so important for inmpressionable teen girls to know that just because TV shows and music say one thing that the alternative is just fine.

I agree with this. And while I hate these books and some of the values they portray, I also agree about Smeyer's portrayal of premarital sex. Personally, I don't reallly care about it - I'm an atheist and thus don't hold to all those religious type rules and stuff - but I think it was very refreshing for a popular teen book to say hey, it's OK to wait. I didn't like how it was written - shocker, I know - because I felt that Bella seemed really out of character everytime she was throwing herself at him I felt weird just reading it, but I was glad Smeyer went against the grain on this one. There are so many forms of pop culture that treat teen/premarital sex as A-okay to the point where it's almost blatantly promoted sometimes, and I think it's important that such a popular book is different in that respect, because it's so important for inmpressionable teen girls to know that just because TV shows and music say one thing that the alternative is just fine.

I agree. It was definitely refreshing to see something different when it comes to this subject. Many books/tv treat it as though it's something that it's as simple or as natural as breathing. This is one of the few things I'm more than fine with in these books. I also agree that it was very out of character for Bella to almost demand it from Edward. However, it was really nice to see the guy say no for a first in a YA series.

originally posted by Rebel
I'm going to have to disagree about the sex thing. Usually it is the male pressuring a girl to have sex, Bella and Edward flipped their gender roles on this. I don't really see the problem here. Edward was not ready. If Bella wasn't ready and Edward was pressuring her, we would just add that to the list of his jerky qualities. But since Bella is doing the pressuring and Edward is saying no, we are supposed to assume he's gay/cheating? I can't accept this. Guys are allowed to be unsure about sex too.

Obviously pre-marital sex is condemned by the Moron church, so Meyer is slipping that value into the books. Edward wanting to wait is obviously the right choice within the books because the books have to reflect those religious values. That is also fine with me.

I feel that Meyer did a good job on the sex issue. She didn't want to encourage teenage sex, but she never condemned Bella or Edward's sexuality. Edward never said to Bella, "you slut/whatever nasty name" because she wanted to have sex. Her sexuality was not the issue, which I think is a really good thing to promote.

First, I want to say that the part that bothered me most about the sex thing was the fact that Edward was still reluctant after they had consumated their marriage. He's obviously made it through without killing Bella and he's always making comments throughout the rest of their relationship that being around her gets easier all the time. Surely, this would be the case here too. But no, Edward decides that it is too dangerous and does not want to have sex with Bella again. (And honestly, if that would have prevented the whole Nessie thing, I would've been totally cool with that).

I do think it is good that SMeyer does not condemn premarital sex. I'm just not sure I appreciate how she did it. The thing that bothers me, is that it seems to say it's ok for the girl to throw herself at the guy and that it's up to the guy to say "No, what about your virtue?". I would be ok with it if they both decided to wait because it was something they both thought was a good idea. I do appreciate that Edward does have some chivalry left and does not want to take advantage of Bella. But, like Caliope I simply do not like the fact that it's all up to Edward.

That's my biggest issue with his character. He makes all the decisions.

originally posted by Caliope
He leaves Bella in New Moon 'for her own good' because it's too dangerous for her to be hanging out with vampires all the time. (Fact check: The only 'good' vampire that ever had any trouble not-killing Bella, ever, is Jasper. Is there a reason he and Alice couldn't just go off on their own and let Edward stay in Forks?)

:agree: Thank you. Edward not only decides that it's too dangerous for Bella and him to still be together (despite all the evidence that he can control himself around her) and leaves. He takes all evidence that he ever existed. Edward decides for Bella that she has no right to remember him. He's trying to control her memories for goodness sake. How on earth is that not controlling? To want to control her memories is ridiculous. No one has the right to decide what you remember of someone else.

I realize that this was impossible of course. Taking the stuff didn't mean she would forget him, but it's the thought behind it that bothers me.

originally posted by Caliope
He won't let her see Jacob because werewolves are too dangerous now, regardless of the fact that they're the ones who pretty much took care of her after he dumped and her and rendered her catatonic for however many months that was. (Selective short term memory, much?)

:agree: That was totally uncalled for. I don't remember exactly what his reasons were, but the werewolves are obviously not dangerous, since they took care of her for all those months. They obviously care for Bella despite the fact that she had dated Edward. Yet, Edward decides that Bella can't see them. Why was this again? Was it because he thought Jacob might make a move? IF so (and I admit, I don't remember), he's saying he doesn't trust Bella to make the right decision even though she has come back to him and completely forgiven him for turning her into a zombie for several months (yet another thing that bothers me). He takes the engine out of her car, and yet Bella isn't mad at him. "It's because he loves me". I don't care, that is borderline abuse. If an average man did that to stop a woman from seeing her best friend, we would all be up in arms! But because the sparklepire wants to stop Bella from seeing the dangerous werewolf, we're supposed to accept it's in her best interest. [/rant]

:lol:I agree. It was definitely refreshing to see something different when it comes to this subject. Many books/tv treat it as though it's something that it's as simple or as natural as breathing. This is one of the few things I'm more than fine with in these books. I also agree that it was very out of character for Bella to almost demand it from Edward. However, it was really nice to see the guy say no for a first in a YA series.


Exactly!!!:tu: It was such a refreshing change to read. So much of the other teen flicks promote the exact opposite, so it was nice to see the roles reversed for a change and actually have the guy be the one to hold out. It also made for some amusing passages in the book, especially with eclipse:lol:

i haven't read enough teen flicks to really know much about how most books view premarital sex so i was actually under the impression that most authors would not put that into their book to avoid bashing but i just haven't read enough. It was nice i guess to see the guy wait, but i wish he had different reasons than condemning Bella to hell (which reminds me...where does it ever say that edward or bella is religious besides all that condemning to hell soulless stuff?) I kind of think it could've been written a bit better though. As Caliope said, it seemed a bit liked Edward was trying to control their relationship more. It really could've been done a bit better. Maybe meyer could've put in a new dimension on Edward and made him act a bit more awkward when Bella first brings it up, or he could just say that HE's not ready, rather than keep sort of talking about Bella. More of the WE instead of I thing in Twilight

I'm going to have to disagree about the sex thing. Usually it is the male pressuring a girl to have sex, Bella and Edward flipped their gender roles on this. I don't really see the problem here. Edward was not ready. If Bella wasn't ready and Edward was pressuring her, we would just add that to the list of his jerky qualities. But since Bella is doing the pressuring and Edward is saying no, we are supposed to assume he's gay/cheating? I can't accept this. Guys are allowed to be unsure about sex too.


I actually interpreted it differently. Bella isn't the innocent virgin here, she is the temptress. It's Edward who is religious, who wants to do things right and who is filled with self-loathing for his godless existence. Bella tries to steal whatever virtue he still possesses and she physically throws herself at him. It's a different image of woman but one that has existed for a very, very long time. Women as having less faith and being easier tempted - that's a popular medieval viewpoint. It's up to the stronger sex to protect himself and his woman from 'falling'. Consequently, I always saw this so called role reversal as very sexist.

^Again, THANK YOU.

Here's the thing, folks: I have no problem with the idea of Edward being 'unsure' about sex, and wanting to wait. If they'd discussed like grown-ups and come to a mutual agreement about what was best for them both - still assuming that decision had been to wait - I would have been totally fine with it. My problem is the fact that Bella continues to whine (well into the first book of Breaking Dawn) about wanting to have sex. Her feelings aren't taken into consideration at all. Edward decides they shouldn't have sex before marriage, so they don't. Bella still wants to, but too bad - Edward says no. There's no agreement, no mutual discussion over what's best, it's just - like I said before - because Edward Said So.

TOTALLY AGREE. Edward gives her a short explanation...but that's it. Bella doesn't even really get a proper reason either....i mean really!

I actually interpreted it differently. Bella isn't the innocent virgin here, she is the temptress. It's Edward who is religious, who wants to do things right and who is filled with self-loathing for his godless existence. Bella tries to steal whatever virtue he still possesses and she physically throws herself at him. It's a different image of woman but one that has existed for a very, very long time. Women as having less faith and being easier tempted - that's a popular medieval viewpoint. It's up to the stronger sex to protect himself and his woman from 'falling'. Consequently, I always saw this so called role reversal as very sexist.


I never thought of it like that. I guess I just wanted some female empowerment somewhere...

I never thought of it like that. I guess I just wanted some female empowerment somewhere...


Yeah, I thought a long time about a good example of female empowerment in Twilight and....squat. Like when I was thinking oh, Smeyer wasnt really trying to dis humans and then it turned out that she was...moot. All moot.

I guess I just wanted some female empowerment somewhere...

I would recommend reading a different fantasy series for that. :lol: But seriously, I like Bella as a female character up to the point when she and Edward declare their love for each other and give up their personalities. It's not only Bella who suffers from lack of personality, it's Edward, too. For most of the series, he's hardly more than Bella's wish fulfilment. I mean, do we actually see him doing things he enjoys (and has enjoyed before he met Bella)? What do the boys do for stag night? They go out and eat! That's it. Being a vampire isn't as much fun as one would assume. :lol:

well, he plays baseball, that's something i guess :lol:

I would recommend reading a different fantasy series for that. :lol: But seriously, I like Bella as a female character up to the point when she and Edward declare their love for each other and give up their personalities. It's not only Bella who suffers from lack of personality, it's Edward, too. For most of the series, he's hardly more than Bella's wish fulfilment. I mean, do we actually see him doing things he enjoys (and has enjoyed before he met Bella)? What do the boys do for stag night? They go out and eat! That's it. Being a vampire isn't as much fun as one would assume. :lol:


That's a good point about Edward. We see him play the piano a couple times, but that is it. I don't think that i've ever seen two people so in love that their personalities disappear...weird. Maybe the books should have been a mystery series called "who stole my soul?"

He scrapbooks. And makes laundry charts for the Cullen brood. And angsts in his journal. (Go search Cleolinda on LJ and look up 'Growing Up Cullen.' It's pretty hilarious.)

On trying to find some female empowerment, somewhere: On one of my rereads, I actually did find something. Just not with Bella. It turns out Rosalie's the resident car mechanic of the fam. No, I know! I'll look it up later (if I can even figure out which book it's in) but it's true. I don't remember whether this is before or after Bella decides that not having a Y chromosome renders her incapable of following Jake's motorcycle-fixing conversation, but I thought that was interesting.

Moriath: Yeah, the meadow scene did it for me too. That was the moment I felt myself cross the line between "curious new reader" to "lolfan/hater/guilty pleasure junkie". That "lion and lamb" line, to be even more specific.

i think i rmemeber it actually, very very vaguely. but i thought it was emmett fixing the car :hmm:

oh, I'd forgotten about that Rosalie part. Yeah, she was actually my second favorite character after Jacob (and then I hated them both when Renesmee came in). After hearing her backstory and how she dealt with it, I was like WHOA, awesome. I know some people will disagree with that (no one agrees on anything, so whatever), but I loved that she went and got her revenge.

As a side note, I absolutely HATE the lion and the lamb line. Even during my first reading of Twilight (when I liked it) I just cringed at that line. Yuck!

that line is even worse in the movie

that line is even worse in the movie
I agree, the line was horrible in the movie. I was expecting to squee at it like I did in the books, but... nope! I loved that line. It was cheesy, yes, but it was also so squee worthy and nice. I liked it.

Yeah, I felt like that should have been one of the lines they cut, but of course some of the hardcore fans would have been really mad if they'd left it out. And I know there are people who like that line, because I've seen people wearing Tshirts that say it. Double yuck! And when you think about the movie version of the line, I feel like there's no way they could have done it to make it not sound stupid (to me).

oh ya, that line is like a cheesy-pita, you can't get rid of the cheese. It's impossible

See, the thing that cracks me up to no end about the movie is that a lot of folks - like Taylor up there - thought the line was great on-page but horrible on-screen. For me, dialogue should be believable and realistic in ANY context, or it doesn't fly. If it sounds clunky and dumb when read out loud, it needs to go. Period.

Yeah, that's a really good way to look at it that I hadn't even thought about. And I totally agree.

well, some things just look better on text. Or don't translate as well to film. but it was cheesy to begin with...

well, some things just look better on text. Or don't translate as well to film. but it was cheesy to begin with...
All of the books are cheesy. That's what's so good about them. They're funny (because really the romance and all that is cheesy and funny in the books and the movie, too), but they're also pretty good action wise.

Eh, the only book that I thought had any good action was Eclipse. Twilight had it in the background in like the last ten pages, New Moon just had Bella moping around and trying to hurt herself, and Breaking Dawn was just a wash when it came to action.

Eh, the only book that I thought had any good action was Eclipse. Twilight had it in the background in like the last ten pages, New Moon just had Bella moping around and trying to hurt herself, and Breaking Dawn was just a wash when it came to action.

I have to admit. I was FLOORED by the lack of action in Breaking Dawn. It left me wanting...something, ANYTHING! Huge disappointment.

As for the "lamb/lion" line, I didn't mind it so much. I liked it, though it was cheesy, but as someone else said, ALL of these books are definitely cheesy, it wasn't too, too bad.

Yeah, I felt like that should have been one of the lines they cut, but of course some of the hardcore fans would have been really mad if they'd left it out. And I know there are people who like that line, because I've seen people wearing Tshirts that say it. Double yuck! And when you think about the movie version of the line, I feel like there's no way they could have done it to make it not sound stupid (to me).

I am a twilight fan, but I was not one of those people that swooned at that lion/lamb line. I'm sorry to any hard core twilighters out there, but as into the love story as I became I always thought that lion/lamb line was really cheesy.

So, I was not surprised that when they said it in the movie I literally wanted to cringe and duck under my chair since my bf was laughing hysterically next to me and I was completely embarrassed:lol: I think the problem was not the way the line was said, but where they put it. I actually think it would have been fine if it was said at the same time as it was in the book (after some getting to know you conversations,etc.) In the movie it was just laughable because it literally went from rob/edward screaming something like "as if you could outrun me" to " so the lion fell in love with the lamb.. what a stupid lamb" etc.

Eh, the only book that I thought had any good action was Eclipse. Twilight had it in the background in like the last ten pages, New Moon just had Bella moping around and trying to hurt herself, and Breaking Dawn was just a wash when it came to action.

Yeah, that's why I never thought the movie versions would appeal to the general audience the way hp does. Twilight doesn't really have any action except at the end, which kind of read like one of the more boring episodes of buffy or charmed. New moon and BD pretty much have no action at all.
Eclipse is the only one that has a chance of appealing to a wider demographic.

The twilight series is really a love story. That's what I enjoyed about it. I think it's tough to appeal to that action audience. They tried to do that with the twilight movie by adding all these extraneous scenes, but it came at the cost of the edward/bella relationship.

Question: Who here is actually a Twilight fan? I've seen many people in this thread who discuss and discuss the books, but really have nothing good to say about them. I'll admit that they aren't works of art and they aren't the best books out there. They're good, nonetheless, though.

I used to be a fan....does that count?

I suppose... well, really yes, fans, but also just people who liked the books and come her to discuss the books themselves and not all their flaws. Sorry, if I'm sounding... rude.

I think most people here used to be fans but started to notice the flaws later on. That's certainly the case with me, anyway. :whistle: When I first read them, I thought they were good and was hooked soon after. But then as time went on I started to like the series less to the point that I can only notice the things wrong with the series.

Yes, I think that's a good estimation of a bunch of us on this thread. It was a very gradual thing.

originally posted by Beatifically
I think most people here used to be fans but started to notice the flaws later on. That's certainly the case with me, anyway. When I first read them, I thought they were good and was hooked soon after. But then as time went on I started to like the series less to the point that I can only notice the things wrong with the series.

That's me too! I was a fan at first (never as hardcore as some of my friends) and I was starting to notice the flaws before BD, but BD totally killed it for me. Since then, I've seen nothing but flaws. I did go back and reread the first one to see if there was anything worth saving...:no: Not really

originally posted by Rebel
I never thought of it like that. I guess I just wanted some female empowerment somewhere...

I agree with everyone who said, you're going to have to look elsewhere for that. :lol: What cracks me up (and annoys me) is that SMeyer insists she did not write an anti-feminist book. :rolleyes: She insists this is because feminism is about making choices and being empowered to choose. Apparently, Bella choosing sparklepires over human life is an empowered choice. :no: An empowered choice is one that is actually hard. The vampires were so vastly superior to humans that staying a human is just not an option. To really be with Edward, Bella has to choose Edward! And she doesn't even have to give anything up to become a vampire.

Also, Edward makes most of the decisions for them. Bella can not think straight around him because of his vampire powers, she has no backbone around him. Edward is constantly having to save her. This is not female empowerment. Yet, SMeyer inserts little feminist things into the series. She has Bella write a paper on how misogynistic Hamlet is. Bella tells Edward she doesn't always want to be Lois Lane, she wants to be Superman too (personally, I think Lois is less of a Damsel in Distress then Bella is :lol:). This cracks me up!

I am a fan, I guess. Enough to write a fan-fiction. I'm not obsessed with it. But I will discuss it whenever the oppurtunity comes. And I also can't wait to see the movies. I will say I have yet to re-read the books, and I really should.

I don't always have negative things to say about the books. Most of the time, probably, because they give us so much to talk about, and I do think that's a good thing. I can't stand Edward or Bella, and I'm not into romance really. But I thought Jacob had a compelling personal story arc, I adore Jasper, and Alice is just fun. It's a hard fandom to walk away from, no matter side of the fence you're on.

Question: Who here is actually a Twilight fan? I've seen many people in this thread who discuss and discuss the books, but really have nothing good to say about them. I'll admit that they aren't works of art and they aren't the best books out there. They're good, nonetheless, though.

I know:lol: Most of the posters here hate the books :lol: I'm definitely a twilight fan. Yes the books have their flaws but I was hopelessly addicted to them when I read them and I loved the old fashioned romance of edward and bella. I didn't care for the twilight movie though, but I will probably still go see new moon, etc. anyway :Lol

originally posted by Caliope
I don't always have negative things to say about the books. Most of the time, probably, because they give us so much to talk about, and I do think that's a good thing. I can't stand Edward or Bella, and I'm not into romance really. But I thought Jacob had a compelling personal story arc, I adore Jasper, and Alice is just fun. It's a hard fandom to walk away from, no matter side of the fence you're on.

:agree: That's how I feel about the series as well. I was happiest when reading from Jacob's point of view, Jasper and Alice are the most amazing duo and I only regret that they don't have more "screen time", so to speak. But I enjoy debating it intelligently with people who are still fans. :) I can't stand the hardcore fans who get up in arms and won't admit the series has flaws. :no: This is a very nice place to discuss the series.

Twilight has always been my guilty pleasure and I've been far more amused by the extremely creative and hilarious fandom than by the books themselves. I don't hate the series but after all the failed promises in Breaking Dawn and the lack of logic and coherence, I have a hard time finding anything positive to say. It's a romantic romance, period. There are no layers. Nevertheless, analysing the series is fun because it's such a curious case. It is not complex, it's not focused on character development and it's not even very well-written, yet thousands and thousands of girls and women read it. Even people who swore that it was stupid and that they would never get sucked in couldn't put the books down once they had started.

Twilight has always been my guilty pleasure and I've been far more amused by the extremely creative and hilarious fandom than by the books themselves. I don't hate the series but after all the failed promises in Breaking Dawn and the lack of logic and coherence, I have a hard time finding anything positive to say. It's a romantic romance, period. There are no layers. Nevertheless, analysing the series is fun because it's such a curious case. It is not complex, it's not focused on character development and it's not even very well-written, yet thousands and thousands of girls and women read it. Even people who swore that it was stupid and that they would never get sucked in couldn't put the books down once they had started.


I totally agree about the guilty pleasure thing. I'll bring up the soap opera comparison again just for the sake of it, because it is just like one! Once you start reading it, it is hard to stop

Plus I am totally that girl who said she wouldn't be sucked into it...and here I am!

Twilight has always been my guilty pleasure and I've been far more amused by the extremely creative and hilarious fandom than by the books themselves. I don't hate the series but after all the failed promises in Breaking Dawn and the lack of logic and coherence, I have a hard time finding anything positive to say. It's a romantic romance, period. There are no layers. Nevertheless, analysing the series is fun because it's such a curious case. It is not complex, it's not focused on character development and it's not even very well-written, yet thousands and thousands of girls and women read it. Even people who swore that it was stupid and that they would never get sucked in couldn't put the books down once they had started.


I know.. I completely agree. It's a romance and that's that. You're right. Even as a fan I have to admit that the story is actually very simple, has a lot of grammatical errors, and doesn't have a lot of character development yet I still love it :lol: It's just strangely addictive and somehow, despite everyone's criticisms of SM's writing, she was able to suck me into this twilight universe. I raced thru the books and couldn't put them down. I was completely addicted and wrapped up in the emotions of this love story:lol:

Even with the movie, although I thought it was pretty awful, I still find myself looking forward to new moon and excited to see all the news, fanmade posters, etc. It's crazy:lol:

Caliope posted this poster on the new moon thread and like bella, I was literally at a loss for words and stunned speechless :lol:

http://smirks-works.livejournal.com/5620.html

May I remind you all, that this is not the movie thread? Please stick to discussing the books.

well, back to the question about being a fan:

I admit i was once a fan, but only really for Twilight. It's the only one that really sucked me in. After Twilight, New Moon bored the heck out of me with all Bella's complaining. I can be sympathetic to complaints, but really, like few hundred pages of it is just overdoing it. I admit Eclipse was pretty good, but i was just too used to the Bella Edward story to care much.

I waffled a lot on the first book, trying to figure out exactly how I felt about it. As soon as I got through it, I had this weird feeling like I'd missed something, somehow. Because there was so much hype, and it was so.....underwhelming. (I had a similar reaction to Star Wars: Episode 1.) It was like, "Um, what? That was it? What's the big deal?" And yet, the minute I finished it, I had this irresistible urge to read it again, cover to cover, and I did. Then I went out and bought New Moon. Same thing happened to my mom, with this exchange:

Mom: Gah--I can't believe how selfish this girl is!
Me: I know, it's bad.
Mom: And she's such a weak character!
Me: Tell me about it.
Mom: And she's so hopelessly dependent on Edward!
Me: Preaching to the choir.
Mom: So......do you have the next one?
Me: lol - I'll put it on your nightstand.

phoenix: Some of the fanart out there is incredible. I'm not just talking about graphic manipulations either - there are freehand sketches, watercolors, fanfiction that fills in the gaps of character development (there are whole sub-fandoms devoted to Alice and Jasper's relationship) and I don't even know what. Sometimes I feel like reading the books was a complete waste of time, but then I step back and look at the fandom and all the in-jokes I'd be missing if I'd skipped it (vampire baseball, sparklepires, JASPER) and decide it was worth it.

I haven't read the books. I guess I'm waiting for the movie to come out on DVD to see whether the story interests me or not. My dad's girlfriend has read the series, and they went and saw the movie. :lol:

The only problem with that is this is exactly what happened with me and Harry Potter. The downside to that is instead of picturing in your mind what the characters look like and then seeing how the movie jives with your views, the movie sets up in your mind how you picture the characters. Daniel Radcliffe was Harry Potter before Harry Potter was Harry Potter.

I waffled a lot on the first book, trying to figure out exactly how I felt about it. As soon as I got through it, I had this weird feeling like I'd missed something, somehow. Because there was so much hype, and it was so.....underwhelming. (I had a similar reaction to Star Wars: Episode 1.) It was like, "Um, what? That was it? What's the big deal?" And yet, the minute I finished it, I had this irresistible urge to read it again, cover to cover, and I did. Then I went out and bought New Moon. Same thing happened to my mom, with this exchange:

Mom: Gah--I can't believe how selfish this girl is!
Me: I know, it's bad.
Mom: And she's such a weak character!
Me: Tell me about it.
Mom: And she's so hopelessly dependent on Edward!
Me: Preaching to the choir.
Mom: So......do you have the next one?
Me: lol - I'll put it on your nightstand.

:lol::lol::lol: My girlfriends and I have had the same conversations i.e. Why can't bella have a personality other than being obsessed with edward,etc? Yet we still find ourselves hopelessly addicted.

phoenix: Some of the fanart out there is incredible. I'm not just talking about graphic manipulations either - there are freehand sketches, watercolors, fanfiction that fills in the gaps of character development (there are whole sub-fandoms devoted to Alice and Jasper's relationship) and I don't even know what. Sometimes I feel like reading the books was a complete waste of time, but then I step back and look at the fandom and all the in-jokes I'd be missing if I'd skipped it (vampire baseball, sparklepires, JASPER) and decide it was worth it.


Well, I was just dazed when you posted those new moon posters. My friends I sent it to have all put it as their desktop wallpaper including me! :love: If you have anymore, pls owl or post them. I am truly amazed. Whatever criticisms there are about the books, SM's twilight world has clearly resonated with a lot of people to inspire this type of fandom.

well, back to the question about being a fan:

I admit i was once a fan, but only really for Twilight. It's the only one that really sucked me in. After Twilight, New Moon bored the heck out of me with all Bella's complaining. I can be sympathetic to complaints, but really, like few hundred pages of it is just overdoing it. I admit Eclipse was pretty good, but i was just too used to the Bella Edward story to care much.

I ceased being a fan after coming on this thread :p

I waffled a lot on the first book, trying to figure out exactly how I felt about it. As soon as I got through it, I had this weird feeling like I'd missed something, somehow. Because there was so much hype, and it was so.....underwhelming. (I had a similar reaction to Star Wars: Episode 1.) It was like, "Um, what? That was it? What's the big deal?" And yet, the minute I finished it, I had this irresistible urge to read it again, cover to cover, and I did. Then I went out and bought New Moon. Same thing happened to my mom, with this exchange:

Mom: Gah--I can't believe how selfish this girl is!
Me: I know, it's bad.
Mom: And she's such a weak character!
Me: Tell me about it.
Mom: And she's so hopelessly dependent on Edward!
Me: Preaching to the choir.
Mom: So......do you have the next one?
Me: lol - I'll put it on your nightstand.

phoenix: Some of the fanart out there is incredible. I'm not just talking about graphic manipulations either - there are freehand sketches, watercolors, fanfiction that fills in the gaps of character development (there are whole sub-fandoms devoted to Alice and Jasper's relationship) and I don't even know what. Sometimes I feel like reading the books was a complete waste of time, but then I step back and look at the fandom and all the in-jokes I'd be missing if I'd skipped it (vampire baseball, sparklepires, JASPER) and decide it was worth it.

Loved the story 'bout your mom. Yeah, the fan art truly is incredible-especially the full paintings of Jaz and Alice. I like Jasper by the way. He is the only vampire who qualifies as a vampire in my book.

I wonder why Meyer had Jasper fighting for the South when he was alive. I'm not American, so the only causation of the civil war that I know is slavery. Wasn't the South trying to keep the slaves?

Whats up with that?

Rebel: Honestly it just depends who you ask. Only the North and South could tell you why they were actually fighting, and they're all dead. (I've heard at least six different arguments explaining the 'truth' about the Civil War - every one of them dependent on what state you're in when you hear it. No, really.)

My guess is Jasper was fighting for the South because he's a Texan. Texas seceded from the Union 16 years before the whole mess even got started. (You have Sam Houston to thank for that - yes, the city's namesake. The 'Republican of Texas' existed for exactly 9 years before they came crawling back.)

/nerd factoid (PM me if want to know more, because this is off-topic.)

MC2456: OH yeah, Jasper has more 'vampire' in him because he has a respectable amount of violence in his past. He's more traditional in that sense, but I think his story is infinitely more interesting.

originally posted by Caliope
MC2456: OH yeah, Jasper has more 'vampire' in him because he has a respectable amount of violence in his past. He's more traditional in that sense, but I think his story is infinitely more interesting.

Totally agree. Jasper and Carlisle were the only two vampires who interested me. Both of them had to actually struggle to become "good vampires" and they were the only ones with interesting back stories. I mean, Emmett and Rosalie have no backstory, Edward's life did not exist pre-Bella and Esme really has nothing either. Alice does have an interesting back story, but it's not so violent and traditional vampire as Jasper and Carlisle's stories.

^Weeeeeeell, she might. We don't know what her human life was like. The possibilities are endless! I mean, she was put into a mental institution against her will. Depending on the time period, it could have been really nasty.

it's hinted toward but it would be really cool if we got a backstory.

What I really hate is how Meyer decided to do Midnight Sun about Edward and Bella while each of the other characters are WAY more interesting :(

Totally agree. Jasper and Carlisle were the only two vampires who interested me. Both of them had to actually struggle to become "good vampires" and they were the only ones with interesting back stories. I mean, Emmett and Rosalie have no backstory, Edward's life did not exist pre-Bella and Esme really has nothing either. Alice does have an interesting back story, but it's not so violent and traditional vampire as Jasper and Carlisle's stories.

I really enjoyed the character of Jasper, especially when it came to eclipse. It was so interesting reading about his life as a confederate soldier, the newborn vampire armies, etc. I really hope they bring that into the film. It added so much depth to his character.

Yeah, I too think that Jasper had a completely awesome backstory. He was by far the coolest Cullen in the books.

if only Midnight Sun had been about Jasper and Alice :(

you know what would be really cool? If there was a story about another vamp that could see into the past kinda like how alice can see into the future.

if only Midnight Sun had been about Jasper and Alice :(

you know what would be really cool? If there was a story about another vamp that could see into the past kinda like how alice can see into the future.


Aro can kind of do that, he can hear every thought you've ever had. wich is kinds of like seeing the past...sort of...

Yeah, Aro can see the past through thoughts. But it would be cool if there was one who could just look into the past without having to touch someone and read their thoughts. Then again, one who had that power could end up just becoming a very boring historian (not that they're all boring).

Aro can kind of do that, he can hear every thought you've ever had. wich is kinds of like seeing the past...sort of...

hmm...he's touched Alice before, so maybe he can see into her past but just hasn't told her about it.

it's hinted toward but it would be really cool if we got a backstory.

What I really hate is how Meyer decided to do Midnight Sun about Edward and Bella while each of the other characters are WAY more interesting :(


You read midnight sun too?:lol:

I actually thought it was a pretty fascinating read. Who would have thought that edward was so emo :lol:? Actually, I almost thought he was too angst ridden and tormented in midnight sun. No wonder rob played him that way in the movie. It came off as kind of whiny sometimes.

i thought it was much better than Twilight, but i still wish it was about the other Cullens.

If Smeyer were to write other books about the other Cullens, I would probably read them. If she does, let's hope she gives them more personality than Edward.

i doubt i'll read the rest of midnight sun though, it started getting a bit too romancy after a while. It was good at first though.

Yeah, if she finishes Midnight Sun I'll also probably skip it. I'm so not interested in reading even more of Edward being all tortured and emo. We already know how that goes.

i found it absolutely hilarious at first, but once he and Bella get on speaking terms everything goes all cheesy :no:

It did get cheesy. I felt it very much mirrored Twilight in that aspect. Bella had the potential to be a good character...until she had her first conversation with Edward, and from there it was cheese cheese cheese.

i've never met anyone quite THAT cheesy in real life, now that i come to think about it. From everything my friends have told me, the most romantic the most of them had ever gotten was stuff about "I love you". I did read a really really sweet thingy one of my freinds' boyfriend wrote on his aim buddy info about how wonderful she made him feel and how beautiful she was, and i had gotten a love letter before that was rather childish, but neither were fully as cheesy as twilight

Well my exboyfriend wanted to buy me an ipod and have a little love message etched onto the back, but I found out and squashed it immediately. That's the cheesiest thing I've ever almost experienced....and like you (V8), not even close to Twilight - I'm thinking of the lion and lamb line again. Oh, cheese.

If she continued with midnight sun, she would have had another best seller on her hands. Could you imagine- we may have then had new moon, eclipse, and BD from edward's pov as well. Then we could have the entire series from jacob's pov. This could go on for ages :lol

i think she said that she dind't really want to do more with Twilight though right?

And seriously, I really hope she doesn't...it'll be like Anne Rice all over again, being too obsessed with your own characters, but worse, because it's the same story really. That's like classic fanfiction...

^Shhh - don't give her ideas!

The beginning of Midnight Sun is pretty fabulous, what with Edward calculating how many necks he'd need to break per second to drag Bella out of that biology lab and then hide her body somewhere behind the school, but after that, yeah, pretty much the same old story.

thta was absolutely hilarious and gave Edward much more depth than any of Meyer's other books achieved :lol:

^I know, right? He was actually acting like a vampire for a change - it was awesome!

The leaked Midnight Sun got so old so fast. At one point I was just skimming.

Yes, Edward, we all know you could kill Bella in half a second. We also know that you love her so much that you don't want to put her in danger. Sigh, yes, we know that you are a monster and Bella is an angel.

Yes. We know. Now shut up.

But it was better than Breaking Dawn, but that's not saying much. I have no respect for the last installment. Mostly I pretend Twilight is a trilogy.

I only read the first chapter of MS. It was interesting seeing Edward's point of view and how he wanted to kill Bella. :) But I never read past that. I'm not interested in seeing how he thinks about Bella the angel (which is ironically how she describes him too), and now, reading your comments, I'm glad I didn't. :no:

The cheesiest thing I've ever seen in real life was a myspace survey my little brother filled out for his girlfriend. The question was, "how would you tell this person you love them?" His answer: "I don't know what love is, but when I do, she'll be the first to know." It's so cute and yet so cheesy! (although I honestly think he meant it, he's not the type to write cheesy ** because he thinks she'll like it.)

The leaked Midnight Sun got so old so fast. At one point I was just skimming.

Yes, Edward, we all know you could kill Bella in half a second. We also know that you love her so much that you don't want to put her in danger. Sigh, yes, we know that you are a monster and Bella is an angel.

Yes. We know. Now shut up.

I definitely agree. I just stopped reading half way through. It was very repetitive.

But it was better than Breaking Dawn, but that's not saying much. I have no respect for the last installment. Mostly I pretend Twilight is a trilogy.

The last book was okay, but I didn't like it mostly because Meyer complied to her fans' wishes. She just put in there what all her fans wanted and what we knew would happen. It was no surprise. And anything that was a surprise wasn't much of a good surprise.

I think that Breaking Dawn was actually better. Meyer didn't present anything new in Midnight Sun. You just see everything from Edward's perspective... yes, that is the point, but it's nothing that we haven't heard from Twilight. It was interesting to hear about Edward's life when he wasn't around Bella, but since he spent most of his time with Bella, there really wasn't anything new. Breaking Dawn was similar, but at least not as similar to Twilight as Midnight Sun was.

Twilight has been driving me crazy... I was all in love with it. The Breaking Dawn happened and I was like 'Err...' and then I joined a Twilight forum and it is filled with children going on and on and on about how hot Edward Cullen is. And its like - do you want to actually talk about the book? And as soon as you try to - the thread gets deleted. And if you arent 10000% obsessed with the series, then your labeled an 'anti'. Seriously... I really liked the story as well, but now Im all angry about it!

Ranting aside, I quite enjoyed Midnight Sun. Mainly because I think he is a better caracter than Bella - never warmed to her - and you get the added insight of others minds. If I were SM, I would have just written it from his perspective in the first place!

I thought the beginning of MS was good too, the part about breaking necks is hilarious and actually vampirish. I haven't read very much of it, but from what you guys said I'm glad I didn't.

As for doing the whole series from different people's POV, that is so lazy I think and it falls in the range of Fanfiction. And while it would be cool, I think even if Meyer decided to do a book on Jasper and Alice, it would be the same old cheese. Plus lazy.

it's only good to do something from another character's point of view when it isn't done too much, or if it adds a whole new dimension and stories, which Midnight Sun accomplishes neither :D

My favorite book in the hole series is Eclipse, Twilight got worst as it went on but the middle was pretty good around the end of New Moon was good but the rest of the book was just meh. :p But my favorite is Eclipse. :agree:

I'm going to be watching Twilight in just a few minutes!!!!!! I'm sooo EXITED!!!!!!! :D:D:D :rockon:

:clap::clap::clape: :D

I think at this stage if Midnight Sun is released, I won't read it. might be time to jump into that leaked version and see what I think, even though I said I wouldn't. I'm not gonna wait forever with this lack of enthusiasm I have for Twilight at the moment.

i'm impressed, this thread hasn't been active in ages :clap:

you should at least try out midnight sun. it isn't exactly great, but it's still far better than Twilight

i'm impressed, this thread hasn't been active in ages :clap:

Well, I do have that knack for reviving dead threads. :D Even ones about Twilight! :lol:!

you should at least try out midnight sun. it isn't exactly great, but it's still far better than Twilight

I might hold you to that piece of analysis later on. ;) Sounds intriguing. I'll get to it over the days.

I agree V8, MS is better than Twilight. At least you get to see Edward being somewhat of a vampire

an entire series from Edward's view would be just as boring as Bella though, since he starts being very flat and repetitive after a while

^ no kidding! I'd rather have a new book written about a totally different sparlepire who actually went out and had some real fun instead of being all tortured and then there was some type of crossover with the Cullens to set up some type of inner conflict that didn't involve romance. That would be interesting.

Is Midnight Sun officially out yet? Because I haven't seen anything about it.

Is Midnight Sun officially out yet? Because I haven't seen anything about it.

No. After the leak, she stopped writing. It may very well be never published.

I hope she's able to finish it someday. I was really enjoying the read from Edward's point of view. They didn't even get to the meadow. :(

I hope she's able to finish it someday. I was really enjoying the read from Edward's point of view. They didn't even get to the meadow. :(

I would have preferred it if Twilight had been from his point of view. However, there isn't a lot of plot in Twilight and reading it all again, from a different point of view, wasn't very satisfying to me. I wouldn't buy it if she ever finished it. I cracked up when I read about Tanya having chagrined thoughts. :lol: I couldn't go through it after that.

Well, I do hope she'll finish it. I think she said on her website that she was putting it on hiatus because of the leak, but I think she wants to finish it.

either way i wouldn't buy it. It's possible that i would try to read it, but certainly not buy it, unless if you count for a bonfire party:lol:

I would have preferred it if Twilight had been from his point of view. However, there isn't a lot of plot in Twilight and reading it all again, from a different point of view, wasn't very satisfying to me. I wouldn't buy it if she ever finished it. I cracked up when I read about Tanya having chagrined thoughts. :lol: I couldn't go through it after that.

:lol:!

I'd buy if only to see if her writing improves at all. I would like to see Edward's point of view, though. Hopefully, she'll make him more "real" and not the adonis Bella thinks him to be. Then again, who am I kidding. :lol:

I think her writing is good. She may not be on par with J.K Rowling, but I think she's still good. I'd love to see Edward's point of view as well and to see what he thinks of Bella whe he first sees her and throughout the whole ordeal. It'd be nice to see a new perspective on this stuff.

would you recommend twilight to anyone?

would you recommend twilight to anyone?

.... That's hard. See, I would recommend it- to the 12-14 age group (no offence meant to anyone! ;)).

I say that because I think it depicts love in the old fashioned, over romantic and safe way that we would all like to see love being- but life isn't like that, so I think the older reader finds it harder to accept. It can be as fairytale noir as it likes, twilight still masquerades as a love story, and that love story, vampires aside, is still veritably difficult to come to terms with if you've lived some of the arguments and tediousness that arise from life with someone you propose to love.

Twilight is too much of a bed of roses- on the surface dangerous and risky, but deep down a safe puddle of petals to hide in.

;)

^I think I'd agree with that. Personally I wouldn't recommend to to anyone, but if I had to it would be to someone in that age range and for those reasons. But I would also tell them to not to look into any deeper than the surface, since there's nothing there - you know, a fairly entertaining, escapist series of books.

I wouldn't recommend it, especially not to younger readers. There is definitely better YA literature to be read. The soap effect of Twilight is remarkably addictive but the story isn't really worth telling...or reading.

I'd recommend it to teenagers, but not to younger readers since they're too young to grasp a book like that. Adults could read it, too, if they wanted to. While I do like the series, it's kind of weird that none of the characters are killed off. I know the Cullens can't die, but I'm talking about the werewolves. I hate character deaths, but they add something to the story, which is why I prefer HP over Twliligh any day.

.... That's hard. See, I would recommend it- to the 12-14 age group (no offence meant to anyone! ;)).

I say that because I think it depicts love in the old fashioned, over romantic and safe way that we would all like to see love being- but life isn't like that, so I think the older reader finds it harder to accept. It can be as fairytale noir as it likes, twilight still masquerades as a love story, and that love story, vampires aside, is still veritably difficult to come to terms with if you've lived some of the arguments and tediousness that arise from life with someone you propose to love.

Twilight is too much of a bed of roses- on the surface dangerous and risky, but deep down a safe puddle of petals to hide in.

;)

*is glad ducklash doesn't live in her area* Ugh...there are WAY too many people that age that read Twilight...

I wouldn't recommend it to anyone really. Sure it's entertaining but underneath it all, its shallow, vain and dull. I would say its the opposite of what you said, Ducklash. It's the surface that's safe and soft but underneath it's thorny.

I actually think her writing has improved over time. The Host is her best so far.
I guess I'm just not much of a realist. I don't like people to die, and I like happy endings. I am not comparing the two authors or series, but I was actually much more satisfied with the end of the Twilight series than with the end of the Harry Potter series.
I don't think I've ever actually recommended it to anyone, but I've told other people my feelings about it, and it's persuaded them to read it. Many have enjoyed it; others have hated it. I don't think it's appropriate for 12-14-year-old readers, though. My ten-year-old has friends who have read it. I told her that when she's old enough to not care about my permission, she'll read it on her own.