The Twilight series by Stephenie Meyer v.3

I actually think her writing has improved over time. The Host is her best so far.
I guess I'm just not much of a realist. I don't like people to die, and I like happy endings. I am not comparing the two authors or series, but I was actually much more satisfied with the end of the Twilight series than with the end of the Harry Potter series.
I don't think I've ever actually recommended it to anyone, but I've told other people my feelings about it, and it's persuaded them to read it. Many have enjoyed it; others have hated it. I don't think it's appropriate for 12-14-year-old readers, though. My ten-year-old has friends who have read it. I told her that when she's old enough to not care about my permission, she'll read it on her own.

I agree. Though, I haven't read The Host, and therefore cannot comment anything about her writing, I was much more happy with the end of this series than with Harry Potter. There's really no comparison between JK Rowling and Meyer, but at the same time, I appreciated that most of the characters, if not all, made it out alive. I'm a sucker for happy endings. :D

Though, I haven't read The Host, and therefore cannot comment anything about her writing, I was much more happy with the end of this series than with Harry Potter.

Was that perhaps the case because everyone got what they wanted in Breaking Dawn while JKR found a more dramatic ending? I mean, there was a battle in DH and there were deaths. Personally, I find the epilogue horrible and strangely out of place. Howevever, in Breaking Dawn, there is no battle, there are no deaths and everyone lives happily ever after. Or is it something else?

While I do like happy endings, I think JKR did a better job. Yes, the Trio survived which is what I wanted anyway, but many people sacrificed their lives in the battle. Nothing like this happened in Breaking Dawn. Everyone survived and Bella got to stay with Edward. While it was nice to see, I would've preferred at least a few deaths to make things more dramatic. That's what I like about JKR. She keeps you guessing until the very end.

What I look for in a book is at large, creativity and realism. Admittedly, a lot of cliches happened in Harry Potter but it was still pretty realistic and pretty creative, plotwise and descriptionwise. Twilight was just dull and predictable. Especially breaking dawn, but then again, it got so predictabe that i was thinking "wait, she seriously did something that predictable?!" :lol:. Maybe if Meyer made me as happy for her characters as i was sad for JKR's, that might mean her series was good but after i read the end i was like...whatever....JKR managed to make me cry for Dobby and almost sob over him, a relatively minor character. I could hardly feel happy for the major characters in Twilight.

Was that perhaps the case because everyone got what they wanted in Breaking Dawn while JKR found a more dramatic ending? I mean, there was a battle in DH and there were deaths. Personally, I find the epilogue horrible and strangely out of place. Howevever, in Breaking Dawn, there is no battle, there are no deaths and everyone lives happily ever after. Or is it something else?

To be honest, I was extremely disappointed with the fact that the "battle" scene in Breaking Dawn was so unbelievably anti-climactic. I appreciated the dramatic ending to the HP series very much, but as you said, there were just some parts (i.e. yes, the epilogue) that were just plainly weird, and a bit uncalled for. I love happy endings, and I liked that Bella got what she wanted, because even in reality, that's what we all want. Therefore, I identified more with the Twilight ending than with the HP one.

TWILIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I loved them! Loved them, loved them, loved them. And I've read them way too many times.

I'm on board with you guys though that there should have been a fight at the end of "Breaking Dawn". And maybe a death or two. I wouldn't mind if it was Jacob. He was such a tool in "Eclipse". It was nice to have a happy ending though. Unlike "Deathly Hallows". I mean, I LOVE it, but I was in tears like the whole last half of the book. I was a mess when Fred died. You don't even know.

There were a lot of complaints about "Breaking Dawn" but I loved it.

I love happy endings, and I liked that Bella got what she wanted, because even in reality, that's what we all want.

I guess this is exactly why I don't like Breaking Dawn. :lol: I like happy endings as much as the next person but this ending was too perfect. To me it reads like something a child would write. Personally, I cannot find any pleasure in reading something that makes suspense of disbelief impossible. I liked Twilight because it contained longing and unfulfilled desires. BD on the other hand was some sort of wish fulfilment orgy. :lol:

BD on the other hand was some sort of wish fulfilment orgy. :lol:

:rotfl:

I guess this is exactly why I don't like Breaking Dawn. :lol: I like happy endings as much as the next person but this ending was too perfect. To me it reads like something a child would write. Personally, I cannot find any pleasure in reading something that makes suspense of disbelief impossible. I liked Twilight because it contained longing and unfulfilled desires. BD on the other hand was some sort of wish fulfilment orgy. :lol:

:rotfl: so true

And while we all want happy endings in life, reality isn't like that. That's why I like HP over Twilight. There was a true evil in HP, and JKR portrayed that nicely. While Meyer did portray the bad vampires as evil, most of them died on the spot either in the first book or in books to come. The Volturi were frightening, but I would've loved a battle scene. Unfortunately we didn't get that or any character deaths to have sacrifice. Everyone lives happily and that's it.

Everyone lives happily and that's it.

Sounds very anti-climatic; either that, or she got bored with writing and thought: "Ah! I know - "And they lived happily ever after! The End."
:err:

i think she's getting slightly tired of Twilight since she doesn't want to write as much twilightverse.

Well she wanted to finish "Midnight Sun" but she was all butt hurt that someone leaked it. Or else we would we would have gotten that too.

i know, but its not like she's going to write like a lot of different twilight books, so i'd say shes getting less enthusiastic about twilight

I hope not. That's not even the one I want to read from Edward's point of view. I'd rather read New Moon and Eclipse from his point of view.

I wish she would have done something after Breaking Dawn that wasn't as dramatic. Just their life together as vampires. Maybe she will someday. Maybe she couldn't think of anything. I mean, she's not really a writer she's a house wife that had a dream. You can tell by reading them that she's not a writer.

their life together as vampires *shudders* i'll stay away from anything in Twilightverse following Edward and Bella thank you very much. i wouldn't mind stuff from host if she doesn't ruin it like with Twilight though.

Well, if she doesn't publish Midnight Sun, then I think she should just end the Twilight saga with Breaking Dawn. That would be much easier than just doing something else with the series. I wouldn't want anything else with Edward and Bella since their story is done. Maybe she could do a story with Renesmee and her perspective on things. That's all I can think of.

I for one hope she doesn't continue Midnight Sun. The part that was leaked was enough for me to imagine what the rest would be like. It would probably just be 300 pages of ''I love Bella'' ''Bella's so beautiful" "I'm tortured." The leaked part was interesting, for sure, but it was quite enough for me.

I for one hope she doesn't continue Midnight Sun. The part that was leaked was enough for me to imagine what the rest would be like. It would probably just be 300 pages of ''I love Bella'' ''Bella's so beautiful" "I'm tortured." The leaked part was interesting, for sure, but it was quite enough for me.

thta's what the first half of the book was :p. But you forgot "Bella smells good" and "damn Edward, get a grip on yourself and don't kill her" :p

Yeah, I know. I thought that having Edward's perspective would've been interesting because I thought maybe he'd talk more about his origins and how he met Carlisle and Esme. Yes, we know about that from the first book, but I'm sure Edward would've given us even more perspective from his POV. But whatever. If it doesn't get published that's fine with me. It's her decision after all.

i know, but its not like she's going to write like a lot of different twilight books, so i'd say shes getting less enthusiastic about twilight
I want her to finish Midnight Sun, but I think the story is finished beyond point-of-view stuff.
I heard a rumor a year ago that there would be some follow-up to The Host...has anyone heard anything about that?

^ I haven't heard anythign recently (not being a fan anymore), but I remember awhile ago (when I still was a fan) I read on her website that she was hesitant to do another 'Host' book because she'd have to kill a character.

Just to keep this post Twilight related.....I don't care for it. Sparklepires...not a fan of the concept.

I don't want to read The Host because I heard it was creepy. The librarian my mom works for read the book and said it gave her nightmares. I'd rather read the Twilight series, even though it doesn't live up to HP.

I want her to finish Midnight Sun, but I think the story is finished beyond point-of-view stuff.
I heard a rumor a year ago that there would be some follow-up to The Host...has anyone heard anything about that?
i heard about that too
^ I haven't heard anythign recently (not being a fan anymore), but I remember awhile ago (when I still was a fan) I read on her website that she was hesitant to do another 'Host' book because she'd have to kill a character.

Just to keep this post Twilight related.....I don't care for it. Sparklepires...not a fan of the concept.
If she's not going to kill off a character and be rational about what she's writing about, i'm not going to bother reading it. If she doesn't want to kill off anybody, i mean really, just write a normal romance with a girl with a super hot magazine model guy or something like that.

I don't want to read The Host because I heard it was creepy. The librarian my mom works for read the book and said it gave her nightmares. I'd rather read the Twilight series, even though it doesn't live up to HP.
um....seriously? i mean maybe having someone else in your head is just barely creepy and the whole plot with aliens invading is kind of creepy but other than that it wasn't creepy at all. The Host isn't one of those books that i would want to read too much though. It was far better than Twilight but so insanely dull compared to most of the stuff i read.

Hi! I've been thinking about reading the Twilight series, but haven't completely made up my mind. The general thoughts on Bella aren't very encouraging, as I'm getting the impression she is very self-centered, ungrateful type of character. Which could be a bit difficult reading books that are going to be her internal monologue. Also, all I've heard about Edward is his looks, I keep wondering does he have a personality or rather does Bella think about his personality traits?

I've read quite a few of the Vampire Chronicles by Anne Rice, and I loved the vampires in this series. Even though they have super human strength and are extremely mesmerizing, they still also have their flaws and make mistakes. They're well-rounded characters, with many layers. I get the feeling in Twilight, the vampires are just perfect in every way?

I would be grateful for anyones thoughts on this. :)

I've read quite a few of the Vampire Chronicles by Anne Rice, and I loved the vampires in this series. Even though they have super human strength and are extremely mesmerizing, they still also have their flaws and make mistakes. They're well-rounded characters, with many layers. I get the feeling in Twilight, the vampires are just perfect in every way?

Yes, unfortunately, the vampires in Twilight are nothing like the vampires in the Vampire Chronicles. They all found their perfect soulmate, they're all beautiful and gifted and even though they mourn the loss of their mortality to some extent, there is not self-reflection, no interesting psychology.

If you want to know what the hype is all about, by all means, read the series. But Bella is definitely self-centred and ungrateful, Edward has no personality to speak of, most minor characters remain flat characters (there are a few exceptions) and there is little plot and no character development. It's all about the epic love story and how Bella angsts about not being good enough for Edward, who angst about her losing her soul in return. The End. :lol:

Hi! I've been thinking about reading the Twilight series, but haven't completely made up my mind. The general thoughts on Bella aren't very encouraging, as I'm getting the impression she is very self-centered, ungrateful type of character. Which could be a bit difficult reading books that are going to be her internal monologue. Also, all I've heard about Edward is his looks, I keep wondering does he have a personality or rather does Bella think about his personality traits?

I've read quite a few of the Vampire Chronicles by Anne Rice, and I loved the vampires in this series. Even though they have super human strength and are extremely mesmerizing, they still also have their flaws and make mistakes. They're well-rounded characters, with many layers. I get the feeling in Twilight, the vampires are just perfect in every way?

I would be grateful for anyones thoughts on this. :)
the only wondreful thing i can think about after reading twilight is that i can keep up with all this Twilight hate jokes :D. For example: Mr. Glitterglue :lol:. And the Twilgiht vamps are nowhere near like the vamps in Vampire Chronicles. In a way, i kind of think Vampire Chronicles vamps are a bit more powerful but they are far more interesting and unique than the twilight ones. My advice is that it's a waste of time, but if you want to know what its about, read it

Yes, unfortunately, the vampires in Twilight are nothing like the vampires in the Vampire Chronicles. They all found their perfect soulmate, they're all beautiful and gifted and even though they mourn the loss of their mortality to some extent, there is not self-reflection, no interesting psychology.

If you want to know what the hype is all about, by all means, read the series. But Bella is definitely self-centred and ungrateful, Edward has no personality to speak of, most minor characters remain flat characters (there are a few exceptions) and there is little plot and no character development. It's all about the epic love story and how Bella angsts about not being good enough for Edward, who angst about her losing her soul in return. The End. :lol:

Thanks Moriath. :) Perhaps I should have read Twilight before the Vampire Chronicles. :lol:

I don't mind the idea of soulmates. Not the 'only one person in the whole world that can suit you', type of idea, that's depressing especially if my soulmate is in another country and we never meet. :( I like the idea that once two people meet and connect, then they grow to become soulmates.

Ah, the extra characters are more interesting. That's not a problem, I have a habit of getting drawn to the unusual, underdog, sympathetic, sideline, etc, form of character.

the only wondreful thing i can think about after reading twilight is that i can keep up with all this Twilight hate jokes :D. For example: Mr. Glitterglue :lol:. And the Twilgiht vamps are nowhere near like the vamps in Vampire Chronicles. In a way, i kind of think Vampire Chronicles vamps are a bit more powerful but they are far more interesting and unique than the twilight ones. My advice is that it's a waste of time, but if you want to know what its about, read it

Mr Sparkles! :lol: Thanks, I might give the first book a try, see how I get on with it. :)

Well she wanted to finish "Midnight Sun" but she was all butt hurt that someone leaked it. Or else we would we would have gotten that too.

Tbh, it doesn't sound very original.
The readers will already know the plot and how it end, so I don't see the point of it.
:err:

Yeah, that's true. It seems like a waste of time to put Edward's POV on something we've already read. I think a better idea is maybe talking more about the Cullen family and a bigger background story. I know we had some of that in the books, but I'd love to have them talk about it more from their perspective.

I would love to read about alice and Jasper actually, or Carlisle, or the Volturi. Those are each much more interesting characters.

Yeah, that's what I was getting at. Maybe even do something with the wolves as well. That would be very interesting. I do hope Midnight Sun doesn't get finished. I don't know what Meyer was thinking when she thought of that.

i dont know Meyer personally, nor have i met her or anything of the sort, but from the writing and her obsession with her works, she just seems a bit self centered, or at least getting a big head. Maybe she started out ok, but face it, publicity can make anyone start getting a bit smug

I have no idea if this has been said on this thread or not, but I'll say it anyways.... to me Edward comes off as a stalker. If he wouldn't have been so handsome, wouldn't Bella have found his behavior creepy? When I read the first book, (I've read all of them) that's what I was thinking about. I definitely wouldn't want any guy doing that to me, even if he was good looking.
Another thing that bothered was how Meyers built up the part about how the vampires shouldn't be seen in sunlight... I was actually looking forward to finding out why.... then I found out that they SPARKLED!?!?! :no: Disappointing.
Edward also seemed very controlling.

it happened to be discussed multiple times :lol:. I find it rather disturbing that so many girls in real life find Edward's behavior romantic rather than abusive

I have no idea if this has been said on this thread or not, but I'll say it anyways.... to me Edward comes off as a stalker. If he wouldn't have been so handsome, wouldn't Bella have found his behavior creepy? When I read the first book, (I've read all of them) that's what I was thinking about. I definitely wouldn't want any guy doing that to me, even if he was good looking.
Another thing that bothered was how Meyers built up the part about how the vampires shouldn't be seen in sunlight... I was actually looking forward to finding out why.... then I found out that they SPARKLED!?!?! :no: Disappointing.
Edward also seemed very controlling.

You pretty much hit the nail on the head! Of all the criticism of the series on this thread, what you said totally sums it up. One of the most baffling things about the series (to me) is the bit about Edward getting away with stuff because he was good looking. I mean, it's pretty obvious that Bella would have been totally creeped out if Edward looked similar to Eric, whom she didn't like because he had bad skin and seemed like he was in the chess club. I'd personally be creeped out either way!
And the sparkles...well, I just always found it silly. I respect making your vampires a little different from the million other vampire books, but sparkles? Not my cup of tea.

Yeah, the sparkles were horrible.... especially since I was expecting something a lot more...... macho?.... scarier?.... freaky? Some word like that....
I think that Edward wasn't romantic and I think that it's weird that so many girls are so obsessed with him. It's a book! Although I did like Jasper and Alice. ;) Other than that, the books were boring.... there wasn't a lot of action (for me) and the so called romance was over dramatic.

Yeah, a lot of people who don't like the series like Jasper and for the most part Alice. Jasper is by far the coolest of the Cullens. His backstory was BY FAR the best out of anyone. Plus those scars are way more attractive than stalking.

well, its not the obsession that bothers me, since im obsessed with voldemort :D, but i just find it sad that so many girls are obsessed with Edward simply because he's forever good looking.

Yeah, a lot of people who don't like the series like Jasper and for the most part Alice. Jasper is by far the coolest of the Cullens. His backstory was BY FAR the best out of anyone. Plus those scars are way more attractive than stalking.

definitely :D

but i think Carlisle's backstory wasn't too bad either. not as amazing as Jasper's but still pretty interesting

well, its not the obsession that bothers me, since im obsessed with voldemort :tu: Voldemort is way different than Edward Cullen. He's so much better. Obsession over him is very acceptable to me. ;)
Oh.... and Carlisle (I probably spelled that wrong) was pretty cool too.... but I liked Jasper and Alice a little bit better.
Plus those scars are way more attractive than stalking.
So much better!

if someone thinks stalking is romantic,well, that's their business but if they're just too blinded by "good looks", that bothers me :whistle:

if someone thinks stalking is romantic,well, that's their business but if they're just too blinded by "good looks", that bothers me :whistle:

At the risk of sounding repetitive, yeah, it really bothers me that people seem to be be fooled by perfect looks and then brush the stalking off as "it's because he loved her!" It is NOT romantic for guy to watch you sleep after only having one or two not-very-lengthy conversations with you, even if he he's drop dead gorgeous. It's creepy. Creepy, I say!

Yeah, I was creeped out by that fact as well. Edward didn't know her very well and he was watching her sleep. And the scary part is she allowed it and thought it was okay. Ugh! I wouldn't let a boy do that to me! That's one of the major flaws with this series. I still like it, but there are some things about it that bother me.

At the risk of sounding repetitive, yeah, it really bothers me that people seem to be be fooled by perfect looks and then brush the stalking off as "it's because he loved her!" It is NOT romantic for guy to watch you sleep after only having one or two not-very-lengthy conversations with you, even if he he's drop dead gorgeous. It's creepy. Creepy, I say!

Meyer's "excuse" for that was that Alice told him he would fall in love with her and he wanted to get used to her scent...but honestly...i dont think that's a very smart idea :lol:

^Yeah, I was never on board with that. It's just weird to me. Just...weird. I think it would have been better to make them have more interaction prior to falling in love instead of watching her sleep. I would have found that much more believable.

I agree, if he had really talked to her and got to know her beforehand, it would turn stalking to wanting to be with her and being in love and much more romantic, but still a bit stalky :lol:

I don't quite understand what people get out of this.

If it's the romance, there are plenty of romances more intriguing with better characterization, even in the paranormal romance subgenre.

If it's the hotness of the characters, there are plenty of books out there with male leads just as attractive, often in greater abundance, and with more juicy bits.

I've been reading Midnight Sun and I have to admit, it's kind of good. While the idea of re-doing Twilight from Edward's POV seems lazy and repetitive to me, the story from Edward's POV is pretty interesting.

His thought seems so much more vampirish than his actions in Twilight. When Bella is almost attacked by those guys he has thoughts of ripping them apart which is cool and vampirish. And he has a lot of self-loathing, which really adds to his character i think.

In the first 4 books i always thought that the problem with Edward was that he had no personality, but in MS he is almost kick-butt!

And the copy of MS that leaked was only the first draft of the book. I know that Twilight is like a manual on how not to write a book, but MS shows that Meyer has really grown as a writer.

twilight is like one of this example essays in English on what not to do but host is still decent. That's why I hate meyer (now) but don't want her dead :D

Meyer's "excuse" for that was that Alice told him he would fall in love with her and he wanted to get used to her scent...but honestly...i dont think that's a very smart idea :lol:

What kind of excuse is that? Didn't he have school to "get used to her scent"? That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard. (Well.... not quite...)

OK I have a question.

We all know that vampires look good to humans so they can prey on them. Like humans are drawn to them or something. But what about when beauty standards change? Like back in the day if you were chubby it meant you were beautiful, and nowadays the accepted image of beauty is being slim. Do vampires change to meet this ideal? I don't see how they can if they are stuck in their bodies.

So if they accepted image of beauty changed and humans liked the way overweight people looked, would vampires be out of luck?

OK I have a question.

We all know that vampires look good to humans so they can prey on them. Like humans are drawn to them or something. But what about when beauty standards change? Like back in the day if you were chubby it meant you were beautiful, and nowadays the accepted image of beauty is being slim. Do vampires change to meet this ideal? I don't see how they can if they are stuck in their bodies.

So if they accepted image of beauty changed and humans liked the way overweight people looked, would vampires be out of luck?

In the vampire lore of the late 18th and 19th century, vampires were also pale and thin, yet very attractive and fascinating; a mixture of danger and sensuality. It's not something Meyer came up with. I suppose humans would always be drawn to vampires, no matter if they fit the ideal or not.

i think its more of just their essence in general. I really hated how Meyer had to actually change Bella's looks in Breaking Dawn to make her beautiful. What's beautiful about someone has much more to do with how they act, how they hold themselves, how they dress, who tehy are, etc. than actual physical looks. And I absolutely mean it, if you see a picture of someone where the first thoght is that they're ugly, look at them a bit longer and usually if they're happy or content, usually they look more beautiful, but i guess some people do look better when they're angry or sad. It's all really about they're "aura". Of course physical looks are a big part of it, but still, you get what i mean. and besides, outside of twilight, vampires are magical, so that probably has something to do with it

I can definitely relate to that... people who strike me as handsome or beautiful usually end up looking ugly after I know more about them and their personality... not to say that beautiful people are cruel or "ugly"... the same can be said with those that we view as ugly.

Everyone's different, but there's more to beauty than just physical traits.

:lol: that reminds me of something. In Mean Girls, Regina George, who's physically good looking, totally ruined it with that snotty look on her face :lol:

Everyone's different, but there's more to beauty than just physical traits.

:agree: Wholeheartedly agree!

Too bad so many people think that they know it, but really they don't... falling for the "looks" instead of personalities.... :sigh:

But within the Twilight-verse you wouldn't get to know the vamp before it ate you, so their personality contributing to their attractiveness wouldn't matter.

I think this changing beauty standard thing is a huge hole. one of many

But within the Twilight-verse you wouldn't get to know the vamp before it ate you, so their personality contributing to their attractiveness wouldn't matter.

:lol: Good point....

But within the Twilight-verse you wouldn't get to know the vamp before it ate you, so their personality contributing to their attractiveness wouldn't matter.

I think this changing beauty standard thing is a huge hole. one of many

i dont really mean just personality, just basic aura. For example, my orchestra teacher who on the outside looks kind of like a blonde Mrs. Weasley in the whole really nice motherly kind of way gives off an aura of craziness which is slightly scary :lol: (she has like this death glare :rotfl: eeek, i think i'm getting it on monday :eeep:). You dont have to get to know her to sort of feel it. Its just like how you can kind of tell that some people will be easier to talk to than others, and how some physically beautiful people can look nerdy and not physically pretty people can look pretty. Or am i the only person who noticesthese things :whistle:. It's like how people say that vampires act like predators too

JACOB! :drool::drool::love::love:

Haha, that's funny. My band teacher has blond hair.... is pretty thin, but I was scared to have her because she seemed so strict and like she was one of those people who needed everything perfect and a certain way. Though she is kinda like that, she has a great (dryer) sense of humor and she's very motherly to those who abide by her rules.... and sometimes those who don't. She one of my favorite teachers.... and I never would have thought that when I first saw her.... ;)

What was Bella attracted to in Edward besides his looks? His "protection".... ?

What was Bella attracted to in Edward besides his looks? His "protection".... ?

It was his smell as well. Can't remember what else, but I'm about to re-read.

and because he was unique i guess

But then wouldn't she be just as likely to fall for any other eligible male vampire or werewolf? What's truly unique about him?

In the Twilightverse everything's about fate. So Bella was attracted to Edward because he was meant to be her soulmate and things with Jack didn't work out because he was only attracted to the, er, egg that would become Nessie. Which isn't even cynical; as soon as Nessie was born, Jacob's pull to Bella was gone.

I noticed something in New Moon and Eclipse and I wanted your guys opinion. Does it seem that (at least the way Stephanie Meyer wrote it) Charlie has a crush on Alice? Even a bit of one?

For instance, this example in Eclipse:

Edward's sister had no hours of visitation; she came and went as she pleased. Charlie was putty in her capable hands.

In the Twilightverse everything's about fate. So Bella was attracted to Edward because he was meant to be her soulmate and things with Jack didn't work out because he was only attracted to the, er, egg that would become Nessie. Which isn't even cynical; as soon as Nessie was born, Jacob's pull to Bella was gone.
Even a soulmate has to have a reason about why someone is their soul mate but i agree with what you said about soulmates being important in twiverse
I noticed something in New Moon and Eclipse and I wanted your guys opinion. Does it seem that (at least the way Stephanie Meyer wrote it) Charlie has a crush on Alice? Even a bit of one?


Maybe a little bit, but i always thought it was kind of a combination of her perky aliceness and her simply knowing how to get to him. For example, if i really wanted to, i could look cute and innocent enough to get out of like anything. I did'nt think it was that unusual.

Haven't been here for a while! What a nice new version. Anyway, a wolfie question, since everyone's talking about imprinting. Why hasn't Embry imprinted? He's the only one of the older wolves who hasn't imprinted yet. Any theories? (I for one, think he's not exactly batting for the opposite team. You KNOW what I mean-I don't want to be too explicit since it's a family forum.)

In the Twilightverse everything's about fate. So Bella was attracted to Edward because he was meant to be her soulmate and things with Jack didn't work out because he was only attracted to the, er, egg that would become Nessie. Which isn't even cynical; as soon as Nessie was born, Jacob's pull to Bella was gone.

I was wondering about that when I re-read Breaking Moon. It is possible, that Jake only likes the egg which would one day become Nessie. (I'm betting that Meyer is pro-life, or she wouldn't have made an allusion to that.)

imprinting is supposedly "rare" :D, except Meyer totally messed that up

Haha! yeah, imprinting is rare...but every character who is able to is going to...but it's rare!

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x82/xxsuperfairyxx/Twilight__s_Edward_Cullen_by_kibasg.jpg

Notice how there isnt a date of death.

Make of it what you will. :lol:


LOL about the imprinting thing, that is funny.

I just can't believe that Jacob imprinted on Nessie. I think that by doing that he still has his connection to Bella. He can't have her, so he imprinted on her daughter so he could still be connected to her in some way. That's my take on it anyway.

Where'd you get that grave marker picture?

google. :)

I think the imprinting thing is going to be so weird for the fans that haven't read the books but watch the films.

Not really, all the movie needs to do is explain it in like 2 seconds. :p

I found it weird though when they imprinted on children, even though I understand that it is brotherly love at first. Some people might be a little creeped out.

I found it weird though when they imprinted on children, even though I understand that it is brotherly love at first. Some people might be a little creeped out.

I was a little creeped out.

Yeah me too.

Apparently in the New moon movie, they aren't adding the proposal at the end. :(

While I understand the imprinting thing, I don't think enough was made of it, if it was to be so central to the story. I mean, it strikes me that Jacob felt left out for about three chapters before he imprinted on Nessie, which bothered me because of the lack of development. Overall, I like the idea of it, being bound to one person forever, it's a decent enough metaphor, but it's poorly executed in the books in my opinion. Her description of it could have been better, so as to avoid that discomfort felt by more than one person on reading about it.

I agree with ducklash. When Jake describes imprinting, he didn't exactly do a good job, made it seem like creepy love

While I understand the imprinting thing, I don't think enough was made of it, if it was to be so central to the story. I mean, it strikes me that Jacob felt left out for about three chapters before he imprinted on Nessie, which bothered me because of the lack of development. Overall, I like the idea of it, being bound to one person forever, it's a decent enough metaphor, but it's poorly executed in the books in my opinion. Her description of it could have been better, so as to avoid that discomfort felt by more than one person on reading about it.

The thing is that there is hardly any character development in the Twilight series. For instance, Edward admits to being controlling at the end of Eclipse and gives in, trying to seduce Bella. For him, the wedding plans are off. Bella, now free to get what she always wanted, stops Edward and agrees to marry him and wait till after the wedding anyway. She does this willingly. However, this blossoming character development is simply gone in Breaking Dawn, when Bella is back to pretending that marriage is the worst thing ever apart from being rich and that she was made to do it.

The same goes for imprinting. Jacob could have undergone some impressive character growth if he had been allowed to heal and get over Bella like a human being. He and Leah could have become real friends and eventually lovers because they had both been hurt by their first loves and they had both been reluctant to move on. There is some sincere attraction between them and Leah is an interesting female character. But no, Jacob basically loses his personality the moment he lays eyes on Nessie. Whatever his wishes and desires had been before, they are now null and void.

In a way, Twilight is more "magical" than many true fantasy stories. Meyers uses imprinting as something that solves everything. I'll use a quote for Dresden Files, I don't remember what book, but Harry says "Magic doesn't solve anything, that's what the person using it's for" Or something along those lines, I do'nt have my book with me even if i did know where it was. However, in Twilight, all this soul mate stuff and vampirism stuff solves everything and leaves litte room for real character development. I really question Meyer's judgement in writing four books in the series rather than three because she got REALLY lazy inBreaking Dawn

First novel of the "Twilight" series arrived via UPS today. I've added it to my To Read stack. I'll probably get to it in a couple of weeks. :D


-Tibbetts

The thing is that there is hardly any character development in the Twilight series.

Yup, we've talked about that particular issue before. I don't think anyone in the world would argue otherwise, to be honest. They would have to make a fantastic argument, and I just don't see it happening.

For instance, Edward admits to being controlling at the end of Eclipse and gives in, trying to seduce Bella. For him, the wedding plans are off. Bella, now free to get what she always wanted, stops Edward and agrees to marry him and wait till after the wedding anyway. She does this willingly. However, this blossoming character development is simply gone in Breaking Dawn, when Bella is back to pretending that marriage is the worst thing ever apart from being rich and that she was made to do it.


And even that development on Bella's part was nonsensical given her previous vicious defence of her non married status. The development was too sudden to qualify as one, in my opinion.


The same goes for imprinting. Jacob could have undergone some impressive character growth if he had been allowed to heal and get over Bella like a human being. He and Leah could have become real friends and eventually lovers because they had both been hurt by their first loves and they had both been reluctant to move on. There is some sincere attraction between them and Leah is an interesting female character. But no, Jacob basically loses his personality the moment he lays eyes on Nessie. Whatever his wishes and desires had been before, they are now null and void.


And I do believe that Jacob had such fantastic ability to be a fantastic, conflicted and antihero character. You're right, he lost it all as soon as Nessie arrived; and the fact that Nessie brought an unwilling peace brings the weirdest "happy ever after" ever.

However, in Twilight, all this soul mate stuff and vampirism stuff solves everything and leaves litte room for real character development. I really question Meyer's judgement in writing four books in the series rather than three because she got REALLY lazy inBreaking Dawn

I'm not sure that she did get lazy, though I agree that she should have stopped at Eclipse. I figure that she had probably always planned this, and it seems completely bizarre to change her entire plot point and storyline, her entire cast of characters and everything they believed in so completely that the book was not capable of being aligned with the previous three. That's just my opinion, but I don't think I'm the only one who feels that way.

And Tibbetts- I hope you enjoy them! Don't let our grousing bother you!!! :D

And Tibbetts- I hope you enjoy them! Don't let our grousing bother you!!! :D

No worries. I've heard a few people I know say they love it, some hate it. So I thought I'd read it and see for myself. :D


-Tibbetts

im not trying to be sexist, but as a male, i'm not too sure you'll like it :lol: but yeah, it's definitely best to try stuff out for yourself first :D

Well, I liked the movie, so maybe I'll like the book. :lol:

-Tibbetts

Well, I liked the movie, so maybe I'll like the book.

I think as long as you go into reading it knowing that it isn't going to be one of those books that change your life, you might like it. I mean as a light read it is good. It is only once you start picking apart the details or listening to the hype that it is the next great series that you will be disappointed.

It's like pretty fairy-tale and there's not enough complex. Everything just solves itself, Bella didn't have to do anything much. That's not what a good protoganist is.

I think as long as you go into reading it knowing that it isn't going to be one of those books that change your life, you might like it. I mean as a light read it is good. It is only once you start picking apart the details or listening to the hype that it is the next great series that you will be disappointed.

Good thing I never go into a new series thinking it'll be the next great thing. :lol:


-Tibbetts

Good thing I never go into a new series thinking it'll be the next great thing. :lol:


-Tibbetts


not even HP?

not even HP?

Not even HP. I thought it made a great movie, but thought the books would be lame kiddie novels. Then, second or third year at Uni a friend I made there was into them heavily and suggested I read them. I was sceptical, but read the first novel. Was hooked after that.

Even today, I always keep my expectations low when thinking of reading new authors/novels. Most of the time I am pleasantly surprised. Which is the way I like it. :D


-Tibbetts

I think the Twilight series profited from the end of the HP hype with the release of the last book. HP fans were looking for something to fill the gap and Twilight was an easily accessible text with an 'epic' romance many fans had missed in HP. I dislike the constant comparisons in the media though. Apart from the hype and the target audience, HP and Twilight have nothing in common. Before the Twilight movie was released, MTV made a real effort to create a fandom war in their Twilight Tuesday. In general, I think that Twilight and HP fans get a long quite well, most likely because the Twilight series is also written and finished and people are moving on to greener and less sparkly grass. :lol:

Actualy, i'm not sure about that. I know very few HP fans in RL in general, but it appears that not many of them like twilight and the twilight fans don't like HP

^ You said it sister. There's like, a huge rivalry between the HP fans and the Twihards. Which I think is silly, because they're fighting over fictional universes. By the way, LORD OF THE RINGS FOREVER AND EVER! *waves her Lord of the Rings flag*

Perhaps it's time to actually discuss the Twilight series in here. :)

I think the Twilight series profited from the end of the HP hype with the release of the last book. HP fans were looking for something to fill the gap and Twilight was an easily accessible text with an 'epic' romance many fans had missed in HP. I dislike the constant comparisons in the media though. Apart from the hype and the target audience, HP and Twilight have nothing in common. Before the Twilight movie was released, MTV made a real effort to create a fandom war in their Twilight Tuesday. In general, I think that Twilight and HP fans get a long quite well, most likely because the Twilight series is also written and finished and people are moving on to greener and less sparkly grass. :lol:

I think you've hit the nail on the head here. I was in a bad way at the end of HP, and I wandered into the city about three days later, walked into a bookstore with a friend of mine, and had a glance around. She mentioned that her friend had told her about Twilight, and I picked it up, read the back, liked the cover and bought it.

But they have nothing whatsoever in common. It was reading something totally different, something that generally doesn't appeal to me as much as something like HP would, and reading it just to fill a gap. I think in a sense that that might also be why many of the people who read Twilight and its sequels come out of it a little bitter and perhaps with a dislike of the series. It was never really my thing anyway; I was unlikely to enjoy the genre long term, or for more than one novel.

I think the Twilight series profited from the end of the HP hype with the release of the last book. HP fans were looking for something to fill the gap and Twilight was an easily accessible text with an 'epic' romance many fans had missed in HP. I dislike the constant comparisons in the media though. Apart from the hype and the target audience, HP and Twilight have nothing in common. Before the Twilight movie was released, MTV made a real effort to create a fandom war in their Twilight Tuesday. In general, I think that Twilight and HP fans get a long quite well, most likely because the Twilight series is also written and finished and people are moving on to greener and less sparkly grass. :lol:

Yes, I completely agree. That's exactly what happened to me. I loved hp so much that I felt pretty empty once DH finished. I kept trying other series to fill the void.. eragon, golden compass, etc but nothing really moved me. I just ended up rereading HP.

Then came the HBP delay. I was bored out of my mind and had walked by this huge twilight display at barnes and noble staring me in the face as soon as I entered the store. I still remember browsing thru it on multiple occasions, still resisting buying the books since I never liked the vampire genre and the synopsis in the back held no allure for me whatsoever.

I knew "cedric" was going to be in the film, so one fateful day last october I finally thought.. let's give it a chance.. and then boom... about half way thru twilight I became hopelessly, inexplicably addicted and haven't been able to disentangle myself ever since:lol: It's only been getting worse with all the hype for the next film:lol: I really can't explain why I and so many others are so addicted to this series. I know it doesn't have the intricacy or complexity of HP, but somehow it was such a surreal, emotional experience.

Hope you enjoy it tibbetts. My friend who saw the film first loved the books even more and is now completely, utterly obsessed!:lol:

I think it simply addresses what most teenage girls dream of. No matter how much i hate twilight, i do have to admit that Meyer does a good job wiht the mood of her books and she's good at creating those emotions. Up to a certain point anyways....i swear i think that if i got a boyfriend the day after i finihsed breaking dawn i would be bored with the experience :rotfl:. Probably not literally, but still :p

I think it simply addresses what most teenage girls dream of.

I totally agree. I remember when i was in high school/a teenager Twilight would have been my dream book because those were exactly the feelings I had. I think teenage girls treat their romantic relationships with more seriousness than boys. So any book that treats a girls first boyfriend as the most important thing EVER would appeal to young girls. And apparently it does...

^Yeah, that whole "this is such a romantic and mysterious and dramatic relationship that I wish I had" is definitely something that appeals to preteen/teenage girls. I'm not gonna lie, that's why I liked the series at first. The characters are basically personality-less, and that allows readers to project whatever into them, making it seem relatable. Like with Edward they picture the hot guy they have a crush on, with red hair and pale skin, and they see themselves in the Mary Stu (in my opinion) character of Bella. Some see through that method of storytelling right away, but some (like me) realize it over time. It's definitely something that draws people in, but I also believe it's not something that marks a lasting impression on literature.

Yeah, most teenage girls love Twilight to the max. IMO, I hate how the other characters, especially Bella and Edward, treat Leah. They're so...hypocritical. If I were there, I would rip off their heads, and burn them, honestly.

its kind of depressing to me that tehy actually like twilight so much because of that. I can somewhat understand it, but i wish that they were a bit more sensible with what they like

Same here, same here. I'm almost ashamed of our generation.

i AM ashamed of our generation :lol:. it's like the modern Romeo and Juliet :D (no offense to shakespeare, but i hate that play, i dont mind his others though). i can only hope the my friends grow out of it

i can only hope the my friends grow out of it

With my friends, that won't happen in the nearest future, unfortunately for me. I can understand why they like Twilight, but I do not understand why they think it is so great. It might be because a good book for me is a book with a good story, but it must also be written very good. :whistle: To my friends, that is not so important. But one thing I have to thank Twilight for, is that one of my best friends (who absolutely hates to read) read 114 pages yesterday! :clap: In English! :wow: I'm very proud of her for it, and I think that as long as she likes the book, it is good for her to read it. :agree:

But one thing I really don't like with the Twilight books, is that Bella is in the beginning described as ugly, or not very pretty, or very ordinary, or whatever it says. This is of course how Bella sees herself, but still, you get the impression that she's not a beauty queen, but has an ordinary look. Later, Bella is suddenly the perfect girl: She is beautiful, has a perfect boyfriend, her clumsiness is just funny (even though she gets injured by it sometimes), she is popular at school, etc. ect. It might be just me, but it seems like Meyer first wanted to show that everyone can get a great boyfriend. But then suddenly this ordinary girl wasn't so ordinary anymore, she was just as perfect as her boyfriend. I wonder what that can do to people with little self-confidence?
I am far from this "perfectness" I see in very many female main characters in both books and movies. To see me as pretty, you must look past my acne or look at the so-called inner beauty, I am not exactly skinny (though I'm not fat either, but closer to fat than skinny), my height is a centimetre or two shorter than the average female, and I am very shy. Because of this, my self confidence was very low for a period (and still is, but it's not as bad as it was before), and constantly seeing the pretty, popular girls get the hot boys in movies and books didn't make it any better.
What I'm trying to say, is that I think Meyer tried to make an ordinary girl, a "me", have a perfect life, a dream life, but she failed at keeping Bella "ordinary" and suddenly had a Mary Sue (isn't that what you call the perfect girls in books and movies?). And I don't like that.

Sorry for the long post, I'm very bad at formulating my words in an understandable way. I hope you get what I mean despite my long-worded, repeating post. :D

I completely agree with you Morning_Star, but the problem is that Bella never seemed ordinary to me. She IMMEDIATELY became popular, not after a little while, and to me, it seemed that after she liked Edward, her social life plummeted. Meyer just didn't do a good job setting the background and developing Bella. I had always pictured Bella as beautiful but not self confident, which is why she wasn't popular in Phoenix. She's kind of one of those people who blend into the background, but in forks she was suddenly special.

I just read this interview of the director of new moon- chris weitz- who comments on why the story of twilight resonates with so many people. I thought he really hit the nail on the head and said it very eloquently because that is exactly why I found myself so drawn to the story as well- the fact that it deals with the universal experiences of falling in love for the first time and having your heart broken for the first time. It was like reliving all the ups and downs of my very first relationship that I had long forgotten.

Here's the excerpt:

Q. What is it about this story that resonates so much with its audience?

A. It deals with emotional occurrences that everyone has gone through. You’ve got all this supernatural stuff, but really what it’s about is falling in love for the first time, losing that love, wondering if you’ll ever be happy again, the restorative power of friendship, having to choose between the guy who seems the right guy or whether you’re going to hold out for the wrong person. This is true of girls, boys, men, women. We’ve all had the experience of falling in love or having unrequited love or being left and feeling miserable and hoping you can get someone back. All these things are universal.

Q. Stephen King wrote in a column that there is no substance, nor emotion in these books, unlike Harry Potter that he loves. What are the qualities of the books in your opinion?

A. The books address the feelings of love and loss that Stephen King isn’t particularly concerned with. (Laughs) I’m not terribly surprised that he says that. I would say, “physician, heal thyself.” Actually, the reason that they’re so successful is that people identify with the main character, with her sense of insecurity, with her sense of being singled out by someone extraordinarily special, with the sense of being broken up with, which is something everyone has experienced unless they are terribly, terribly lucky, and with the deep value of friendship as a way to heal. So I must respectfully disagree with Stephen King. (Laughs)

Q. How would you describe the books to someone who hasn’t read them?

A. I’d say it’s a story about heartbreak and reunion. It’s also a story about humans, vampires and werewolves at the same time. It has these elements which are all about human feelings and then it has elements which are magic, wonder, surprise and suspense.

Apparently, the Twilight series has some competition soon. CW are releasing a new (pansy) show called "The Vampire Diaries" (based on a series of books) which is to be released in autumn (fall).

Any thoughts about that? Do you think Twilight fans are going to jump boats? :lol:

I agree with what he has to say, that's exactly what i think most people see in Twilight. However, I also agree with Stephen King about how there's no real substance in hte books, but there is certainly emotion, and that's what people love about the story. Problem to me is that there isn't enough substance surrounding the emotion

I agree with what he has to say, that's exactly what i think most people see in Twilight. However, I also agree with Stephen King about how there's no real substance in hte books, but there is certainly emotion, and that's what people love about the story. Problem to me is that there isn't enough substance surrounding the emotion

Yes, that's a great way to describe the books. I agree that there really isn't much to the plot at all; but there's a lot of emotion and as you read them you definitely go thru the whole spectrum of emotions right along with the characters.

I suppose, the reason why people love Twilight so much is because it's so simple. So happily-ever-after.

But reality check, people! Real life isn't like that! :grumble:

I suppose, the reason why people love Twilight so much is because it's so simple. So happily-ever-after.

But reality check, people! Real life isn't like that! :grumble:

Realism is only one literary genre though. Twilight is a romance and also fantastic. It's certainly escapist to a certain extent but one can't fault people for reading escapist literature. LotR is escapist, too. But Twilight lacks dramatisation and credible character development. Also logic. I've said it before, people are very ready to suspend their disbelief but there has to be a certain integrity and plausibility to the fictional system that the author creates. Twilight is severely lacking in this regard. Either your vampires are frozen in the state they died or they're not. Either they are just dead people animated by venom or they're a new species able to procreate. Either venom replaces every body fluid or it doesn't.

I dont mind the escapist part of it, that's the reason why i read fantasy, but twilight is too unrealistic within its own world....In most fantasy stories, their rules are consistent

I'm not a fan of the series itself -- but I do respect those that love it for the escapist elements of it. I certainly don't blame them there -- since real life can be a pain sometimes.

I tried reading the first book from the series myself, and I got bored (again no offense) -- it just wasn't my cup of tea :).

I like more of an action adventure bent to vampire novels... not so much on the whole romance thing.

So I'm finally reading the first book and so far... it's not as bad as I anticipated. Granted, I'm only on chapter 12 and I've heard that it only gets worse once Bella and Edw. are finally together, but so far... it's funny, but I think I sort of get the appeal. And it's not because of Edward, whose sarcasm I like, but he's not "omgPERFECT!Ihaztofindmezatkindsahunny!!!" :p It just really feels like I'm reading a novel-version of a manga.

I mean, look at the leads. Main character is embarassingly clumsy yet it seems to only charm others. She sees herself as 'nothing much' when everyone and their dog loves her, and then gets herself in stupid situations and always needs rescuing. Cue in The Lead Male who is seemingly perfect, but angstly, and things like over-protectiveness and stalking are downplayed and spun in a good angle because he's hot and ultimately "the one". And then all the episodic-like situations..

It's a good thing Ms. Meyers decided to write this instead of drawing it out - she might've not gotten this must exposure if this series started out as a comic book or something. :eyebrows:

twilight as manga *shudder*, poor japanese people :p. And Twilight isn't the really bad part of the series, it's breaking dawn.

I am onto Eclipse. At last. What I hate most about (so far) it is the constant gushing over Edward (so, what else is new?), and how protective Edward is of Bella. I almost felt like killing Edward. Then, I realized he's a fictional character.

twilight as manga *shudder*, poor japanese people :p. And Twilight isn't the really bad part of the series, it's breaking dawn.
Oy vey... :lol: -- that stinks. I really hate it when a series that you read goes in that direction. It's sad, really. You really want the best for a series... and then that happens...

I know! I can't say that i liked New Moon much, since it was like 500 pages of: "I miss Edward" but Eclipse was actually decent and showed a little character development and an ok plot, not to mention a somewhat realistic battle with casualties and stuff, even if Jacob completely changed, but Meyer just ruins all that with Breaking Dawn.

I know! I can't say that i liked New Moon much, since it was like 500 pages of: "I miss Edward" but Eclipse was actually decent and showed a little character development and an ok plot, not to mention a somewhat realistic battle with casualties and stuff, even if Jacob completely changed, but Meyer just ruins all that with Breaking Dawn.
Ah... what happened with Breaking Dawn? Did she just mess up the characterizations and stuff?

that's putting it lightly, she messed up everything :D

that's putting it lightly, she messed up everything :D
Whoa :wow: -- that's really bad. Like the timeline and whatnot? That's just horrible.

And on a side note -- I heard that Stephen King was no fan of the books... it was on tv or something -- don't remember where I heard about it. He just thought it was horribly written (his thoughts, not mine).

Ah... what happened with Breaking Dawn? Did she just mess up the characterizations and stuff?

Basically every rule she ever set up in her universe is broken to introduce a highly disturbing subplot.

Basically every rule she ever set up in her universe is broken to introduce a highly disturbing subplot.
Whoa :wow: -- Now that definitely isn't good :no:. Did it involve killing off popular characters in the series or something?

Did it involve killing off popular characters in the series or something?

I wish. :rotfl: I would like to say more but that would spoil you.

lets just say that it was anticlimactic and she changed all her rules to make Bella happier than humanely or vampirically possible :D

And on a side note -- I heard that Stephen King was no fan of the books... it was on tv or something -- don't remember where I heard about it. He just thought it was horribly written (his thoughts, not mine).
I just have one thing to say to that... HURRAY! :clap:

lets just say that it was anticlimactic and she changed all her rules to make Bella happier than humanely or vampirically possible :D

From what I've heard, it would be very anti-climatic as a movie :lol: That's the problem when you get too attached to characters, I suppose. I don't mind happily-ever-afters, but I'd like characters to love and lose a bit before then ;)

Has Breaking Dawn even been confirmed, or are they waiting to see how New Moon (and/or Eclipse?) movie does?

From what I've heard, it would be very anti-climatic as a movie :lol: That's the problem when you get too attached to characters, I suppose. I don't mind happily-ever-afters, but I'd like characters to love and lose a bit before then ;)

Has Breaking Dawn even been confirmed, or are they waiting to see how New Moon (and/or Eclipse?) movie does?

It has been confirmed. I believe Robert Pattinson said something about it. Not sure...

I just have one thing to say to that... HURRAY! :clap:
Yep :clap:... no offense to any Twilight fans. This only shows that not everyone is a fan -- to each their own.

Once again -- I respect you guys for what you like :).

And on a side note -- I heard that Stephen King was no fan of the books... it was on tv or something -- don't remember where I heard about it. He just thought it was horribly written (his thoughts, not mine).
This is what he said: “Both Rowling and Meyer, they’re speaking directly to young people… The real difference is that Jo Rowling is a terrific writer and Stephenie Meyer can’t write worth a darn. She’s not very good.”

I'll admit, I had a laugh when I read it.

I love the werewolves, they're like the only motivation for reading Twilight. I have a question about Embry. I'll put up spoiler tags for the sake of anyone who haven't read the book yet. Do tell me what you think, aye?

Who do you think is Embry is half-brother to, in your opinion? I think it's Jacob. Because Embry is Jake's voice of reason. While Quil is the older form of Seth Clearwater, hyped up and always sweet, Embry supports Jake in other ways, like prompting him to claim his right to Alpha. So, yeah, that's why I think Embry is Jake's bro. Though, it's hard to think of Billy that way.

and Leah and Seth are kind of that way too, and i would like to think of Embry of Jake's half bro but i agree, it's kind of weird to think that Billy would do thta

Yeah, because Leah and Seth got to join Jake's pack. Embry never got the chance, but you could still see him supporting Jake in his own quiet way. I wonder why he [Embry] never imprinted?

Maybe Embry never found anyone to imprint with. But, yes, BD breaks all the rules Meyer initially set up, which is why it's full of flaws.

This is what he said:

I'll admit, I had a laugh when I read it.
Ah I see... thanks for posting it. And it's basically true there -- both writers were writing to young people.

And in the end, that's what matters most -- that fans like what's written and enjoy it :).

I agree with a lot of the last few posts. Although, I stopped liking the books after, well, the first one and only continued reading to the end in order to be able to critique them more effectively.

Some of the themes in this book were really disturbing, and frightening to boot. The whole "Yay for abstinence" cheer is crushed by fairly abusive undertones. : (

I think it's perfectly fine as a guilty pleasure, not to be taken seriously in any way, but when people become obsessed to the point of cutting off perfectly good relationships in order to search for "an Edward", it's a little too much.

I didn't like the last book. The third was alright I suppose, but i really did like Twilight and New moon. If midnight sun ever comes out Ill more then likely like that too becuase I love the story. Fair enough,she isn't the greatest writer in the world, but originally she wasn't intending to get twilight published anyway. Regardless, I loved the love story up until out of nowhere she loved Jacob, then I hated the whole baby thing. All my opinion of course.

Pretty good opinion, in MY opinion. :lol:

Blech. Midnight Sun was absolutely boring beyond belief, the 12 chapters I read when they leaked, at least. "Rainbow sparkles" ?! There was so much more that could have been done and revealed, more information to learn about the Denali Clan, for example, but that was almost skipped over. Very lazily written.

I'm absolutely put off by this author's writing, to be quite honest. : P
I wonder if there's a The Host discussion thread. I have a huge rant about that piece of horror.

http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=115169

there it is. but i still think that Meyer is improving as a writer (hopefully she's reading her haters critique :rotfl:)

Thanks very much! I hoped Meyer read her critics, but her brother Seth (the webmaster) implied otherwise. : P

what did he say? :lol:

Usually, Harry Potter fans hate Twilight, and vice versa. Hmm...I wonder why.

Maybe we can get back to actually discussing the series, yes? :)

Do you guys think that Meyer's writing has improved over the years since Twilight to the Host and Midnight Sun?

what did he say? :lol:

He said it was rude to criticize her and he wouldn't be passing along the message. The only surefire way to contact her is through her website, but her brother refuses to pass on anything but praise. : (

Do you guys think that Meyer's writing has improved over the years since Twilight to the Host and Midnight Sun?
I actually do think it improved. I mean, she writes her books fairly quickly and it seems her editor is on a perpetual holiday (aka. it could be FAR better), but from Twilight to Breaking Dawn, there's been improvement. Still, she's a third rate author on my list compared to the likes of Stephen King and Jodi Picoult.

He said it was rude to criticize her and he wouldn't be passing along the message. The only surefire way to contact her is through her website, but her brother refuses to pass on anything but praise. : (
That's pretty pathetic...Even if it's rude to pass on the message, it would still help build Meyer's skills, to know what she could improve so she won't putting off more readers. In the long run, doing that is seriously hurting her. I guess we can only hope that she reads forums like this talking about what she can actually improve in her writing

I actually do think it improved. I mean, she writes her books fairly quickly and it seems her editor is on a perpetual holiday (aka. it could be FAR better), but from Twilight to Breaking Dawn, there's been improvement. Still, she's a third rate author on my list compared to the likes of Stephen King and Jodi Picoult.
:agree:

I actually do think it improved. I mean, she writes her books fairly quickly and it seems her editor is on a perpetual holiday (aka. it could be FAR better), but from Twilight to Breaking Dawn, there's been improvement. Still, she's a third rate author on my list compared to the likes of Stephen King and Jodi Picoult.


Regarding plot coherency and character development I don't really see an improvement, more the opposite, to be honest. If Breaking Dawn had been the first book in the series, I would not have read the rest.

Regarding plot coherency and character development I don't really see an improvement, more the opposite, to be honest. If Breaking Dawn had been the first book in the series, I would not have read the rest.

I agree. With regards to the plotline and characters, it seems she's gone backwards if anything. Her writing, however, has had a smidgen of improvement. Not yet enough to congratulate her on, though.

I actually do think it improved. I mean, she writes her books fairly quickly and it seems her editor is on a perpetual holiday (aka. it could be FAR better), but from Twilight to Breaking Dawn, there's been improvement. Still, she's a third rate author on my list compared to the likes of Stephen King and Jodi Picoult.

I feel it's gotten worse, actually. Breaking Dawn was even worse than Twilight. Can't she STOP going on and on and on and on about Edward's perfect face for once? (Which I really want to punch right now. Without his perfect face, I didn't have to suffer through 400 pages or more of stupid sappyness.) We got you the first three books, three million times over, Meyer! God, she treats us readers as if we're slow or something. -Rant ends here-.

She's a hundred rate author on MY LIST. JRR Tolkien's first, along with JKR and Jodi Piccoult and the narnia dude. AND Meg Cabot, of course.

Regarding plot coherency and character development I don't really see an improvement, more the opposite, to be honest. If Breaking Dawn had been the first book in the series, I would not have read the rest.

If i had simply heard a summary on the first books then read breaking dawn, i woudl've stopped reading the moment Jacob imprinted on Nessie.

I agree, her problem is that she doesn't know where to stop. Twilight is kind of like a drug, great at first, but then you realize why it's bad and try to break off :lol:. Having said that, since the Host is only one book and not part of a series, it was somewhat decent.

You had me scared there for a second MC, I alwas confuse her with the author of the Sisterhood of the Traveling Pants :lol:

I think her writing stayed the same, and I wasn't to bothered it was not as brilliant as other authors because its the story that drew me in. I overlooked the bad writing skills in Twilight and New Moon because I love the story. But then Eclipse comes along which is so-so then breaking dawn which forced me to make my own alternate ending in which there is no silly baby and the volturi aren't all of a sudden a bunch of cowards.

Her ideas got worse, her writing was the same, although by the fourth book, a little repetitive.

i actually thought eclipse was somewhat ok, she had the beginnings of an actual plot there :D

Um, Jacq, I don't get you, what on earth is this Sisterhood of the Travelling Pants thing you're going on about?

I have a quick Twilight question, so maybe someone can answer. I learned that Bella became pregnant. How did she become pregnant if Edward is a vampire? I thought vampires couldn't procreate in that way. Also, what does happen at the end. Does Bella become a vampire? How did her family react? Did they actually explain the process of how one turns?

I have a quick Twilight question, so maybe someone can answer. I learned that Bella became pregnant. How did she become pregnant if Edward is a vampire? I thought vampires couldn't procreate in that way. Also, what does happen at the end. Does Bella become a vampire? How did her family react? Did they actually explain the process of how one turns?

I think we can do without the spoiler tags by now. :)

Bella could become pregnant because the Twilight mythology is inconsistent. Edward is apparently not dead like stated in earlier books but he is a member of a different species with a different set of chromosomes, which is able to procreate with humans nonetheless. The venom in his body, which destroys and replaces all body fluids and dissolves contact lenses did surprisingly not affect his sperm. The birth scene is probably the grossest thing I've ever read and the baby grows super fast and is highly intelligent. She will conveniently stop growing and ageing when she's old enough to marry Jacob.

Yes, Bella becomes a vampire and since she is more special than even the special Cullens, she can control her bloodlust from day one, even around her father, who is surprisingly okay with everything and everyone. They all live happily ever after.

I think we can do without the spoiler tags by now. :)

Bella could become pregnant because the Twilight mythology is inconsistent. Edward is apparently not dead like stated in earlier books but he is a member of a different species with a different set of chromosomes, which is able to procreate with humans nonetheless. The venom in his body, which destroys and replaces all body fluids and dissolves contact lenses did surprisingly not affect his sperm. The birth scene is probably the grossest thing I've ever read and the baby grows super fast and is highly intelligent. She will conveniently stop growing and ageing when she's old enough to marry Jacob.

Yes, Bella becomes a vampire and since she is more special than even the special Cullens, she can control her bloodlust from day one, even around her father, who is surprisingly okay with everything and everyone. They all live happily ever after.Okay...the bolded part. Mind elaborating on that one?

Okay...the bolded part. Mind elaborating on that one?

Jacob imprinted on the baby as soon as he laid eyes on her. Apparently his fixation on Bella was all about Nessie because he stopped feeling attracted to her the minute Nessie was born. Don't ask. :rotfl: And, well, they are apparently meant for each other and will live happily ever after just like everyone else. (Except for the Volturi because they're evil.) Nessie grows really fast, so she would be physically 18 in seven years time. That would also mean that she'd die really quickly but Meyer introduced a deus ex machina, also a child of a human-vampire relationship, who explained that she'd stop ageing once she's out of puberty.

Wow, crazy.

there are so many convenient things just like the Nessie stops aging thing, especially in Breaking Dawn. is real life like that?

there are so many convenient things just like the Nessie stops aging thing, especially in Breaking Dawn. is real life like that?

haha, and that's not even including the convenient vamps coming into town, the Volturi conveniently being too scared of Bella's powers to do anything, you get my point :D

there are so many convenient things just like the Nessie stops aging thing, especially in Breaking Dawn. is real life like that?
Of course it is. In real life it never rains when you want to go to the beach, and the cookie jar is always full.

I read the three first books, but I just can't finish the fourth. It's too different, too unrealistic. It's too much for me.

I hated that the showdown between the Volturi and the Cullens plus their friends was dragged out far too long. I also think it's weird that Bella get a shield that the Volturi can't even penetrate. I was hoping for at least some sort of battle, but there wasn't one. It just didn't feel right to me.

After reading the spoilers here...I'm ready to burn the books. :lol:

No, don't do that. I'm against book burning in any form. I'll still read the books at times, but they'll never live up to HP. I think the romance between Bella and Edward was way too rushed, IMHO. It just didn't seem to fit. That's why I like HP better. While there is romance there's enough action to suit us within the books, while with Twilight the action comes always at the end.

That's the thing about Twilight. It'll never live up to HP. HP's interconnected, like a beautiful spider's web. Whatever any of the characters did in the books always affected them in later books. However, in Twilight, Meyer simply took liberties and actually changed everything in her universe to suit her characters at the given time. Like Edward being able to procreate, the whole Renesmee growth issue. They didn't have to DO anything. She just solved all their problems for them. That's not really mature writing, if you ask me.

(BTW, I agree we shouldn't burn the books. We should cast them in a far island and dispose them into the sea where they'd be lost forever)

That's the thing about Twilight. It'll never live up to HP. HP's interconnected, like a beautiful spider's web. Whatever any of the characters did in the books always affected them in later books. However, in Twilight, Meyer simply took liberties and actually changed everything in her universe to suit her characters at the given time. Like Edward being able to procreate, the whole Renesmee growth issue. They didn't have to DO anything. She just solved all their problems for them. That's not really mature writing, if you ask me.

(BTW, I agree we shouldn't burn the books. We should cast them in a far island and dispose them into the sea where they'd be lost forever)

I'm only not burning them because I know how angry my mom would be :lol:. I settled for burning pictures and posters of Twilight at my friend's bonfire party :D.

No, don't do that. I'm against book burning in any form. I'll still read the books at times, but they'll never live up to HP. I think the romance between Bella and Edward was way too rushed, IMHO. It just didn't seem to fit. That's why I like HP better. While there is romance there's enough action to suit us within the books, while with Twilight the action comes always at the end.*Notes that I wasn't serious, hence the smilie* ^^ I didn't think anyone would take book burning threat seriously. Sorry about that.

I looked past all the bad writing, and focused on the storyline. I'm a sucker for a romance like Edward and Bella's, and I can't help that. Althought I did start to get annnoyed when it went on and on about Edward's face.

Don't get me wrong, I think JK Rowling is a far better writer, and HP is better than Twilight in terms of that, but I still like Meyer's storylines.

*Notes that I wasn't serious, hence the smilie* ^^ I didn't think anyone would take book burning threat seriously. Sorry about that.


Sorry, I didn't notice the smilie. My bad.

I looked past all the bad writing, and focused on the storyline. I'm a sucker for a romance like Edward and Bella's, and I can't help that. Althought I did start to get annnoyed when it went on and on about Edward's face.

Don't get me wrong, I think JK Rowling is a far better writer, and HP is better than Twilight in terms of that, but I still like Meyer's storylines.

Twilight, New Moon and Eclipse were decent, but Breaking Dawn reminds me of those essays my teachers make us read that are examples of what not to do on exams to prepare us.

i loveeeee the twilight series! i think they are so original and the way SM writes is wonderful

Usually, Harry Potter fans hate Twilight, and vice versa. Hmm...I wonder why.



thats not true for all fans...i love them both and think they are great for different reasons.but yeah some are.hmm

i loveeeee the twilight series! i think they are so original and the way SM writes is wonderful



I'm not trying to be rude, but what do you think is original about them? (besides the fact that the vamps are sparkly :lol:)

i loveeeee the twilight series! i think they are so original and the way SM writes is wonderful


I read an essay once in my Chinese class about essays which had only good descriptions, flowery writing, and no substance at all. I think Twilight counts as one of them.

I'm not trying to be rude, but what do you think is original about them? (besides the fact that the vamps are sparkly :lol:)

the whole storyline.how two people fall in love but shouldnt.thats why they became so popular.there really isnt a story like it.

Yeah, but the way it happened was so rushed for me. It wasn't a gradual thing like in HP. It was until you got to the sixth book in HP where you really started to notice the couples. At least it was like that for me. I saw hints of it in other books, but HBP is where it's really spelled out. With Twilight, it just seemed too rushed.

I read the series and feel like as a woman, Bella should not be so dependent on a man. To throw your whole life away just to be with someone, is something hard for me to grasp. Also no one can be as perfect as Edward, it's not realistic.

the whole storyline.how two people fall in love but shouldnt.thats why they became so popular.there really isnt a story like it.

My experience in romance novels is limited, but that's what Romeo and Juliet is about and i find it a reoccurring theme in many stories i've read as side plots (since Romeo and Juliet is the only other romance i've read other than twilight and only because of english class :lol:). For example, Harry and Ginny during DH, Cho and Harry in OoTP, Lestat and a Nun (um...forgot her name...started with a G i think :lol:) in Vampire Chronicles, and i'm not sure if whether or not you've read Dresden Files or Eragon or any of the other books i've read so i won't mention the romances in those stories. Also, nearly all the Disney Princess movies have that as a theme. But I do agree that it's probably part of the reason why it got popular, it's kind of like a modern Romeo and Juliet.

That reminds me....there are a LOT of similarities between Twilight and Romeo and Juliet, now that I think of it...except Twilight gets a happily ever after. Bella/Juliet starts out being a "good girl", meets Edward/Romeo, they fall in love, keep it a secret from Charlie/Family, Charlie later hates Edward/Families always hated one another, They keep the details of romance hidden from Charlie(Twilight), Never told family (R and J), Married against family's/Charlie's will, Jacob/Paris also loved Bella/Juliet, Bella/Juliet chose first love, chose to spend rest of life/death with one love, in the end, charlie/rest of family find out about their love.

Twilight, New Moon and Eclipse were decent, but Breaking Dawn reminds me of those essays my teachers make us read that are examples of what not to do on exams to prepare us.

The only thing I was really disappointed about in Breaking Dawn was Jacob imprinting on Renesmee, and the battle that never was. I was waiting for it, but it never happened, leaving me feeling empty. Other than that, I liked it.

The only thing I was really disappointed about in Breaking Dawn was Jacob imprinting on Renesmee, and the battle that never was. I was waiting for it, but it never happened, leaving me feeling empty. Other than that, I liked it.

I was pretty angry because Eclipse was completely pointless. Bella spends an entire few hundred pages worrying and she just gets what she wants due to "luck". She didn't have to work hard to control her bloodthirst, her parents ddin't care about her marrying, Meyer completely ignoring the fact that vamps aren't supposed to be able to procreate, her constant fawning over Edward, it just added up too much. I probably could handle them individually or spread out in a large book series, but it was just too much at once

I was pretty angry because Eclipse was completely pointless. Bella spends an entire few hundred pages worrying and she just gets what she wants due to "luck". She didn't have to work hard to control her bloodthirst, her parents ddin't care about her marrying, Meyer completely ignoring the fact that vamps aren't supposed to be able to procreate, her constant fawning over Edward, it just added up too much. I probably could handle them individually or spread out in a large book series, but it was just too much at once

Yeah, alot of things just seemed to easy. Maybe we should start a thread like the one we have about stuff in HP being to easy, except it being for Twilight.

That reminds me....there are a LOT of similarities between Twilight and Romeo and Juliet, now that I think of it...except Twilight gets a happily ever after. Bella/Juliet starts out being a "good girl", meets Edward/Romeo, they fall in love, keep it a secret from Charlie/Family, Charlie later hates Edward/Families always hated one another, They keep the details of romance hidden from Charlie(Twilight), Never told family (R and J), Married against family's/Charlie's will, Jacob/Paris also loved Bella/Juliet, Bella/Juliet chose first love, chose to spend rest of life/death with one love, in the end, charlie/rest of family find out about their love.


I think Twilight would have been a better series if Meyer had introduced more of the Romeo&Juliet themes and conflicts. Because Bella met no resistance when she married Edward, Charlie did not freak out about the Cullens being vampires, Bella did not have to choose between Jake and Edward and there was no duel that cost a life dear to her.

My dearest wish since I've read the Twilight Series, is to find out how The Breaking Dawn was sequel to the first three books. IMO, it almost has nothing to do with them, well probably except that the books had the same characters. If Meyer could just stretch that Victoria thing to the fourth book the series would've been a bit better than it is. I think Meyer was writing the books for her own enjoyment, she didnt care about making them realistic, she cared mostly about making her characters happy (e.g Jacob imprinting on Bella's daughter after loving Bella so desperately). IMO, the first three books were passable, but the fourth was real fiasco.

I think Twilight would have been a better series if Meyer had introduced more of the Romeo&Juliet themes and conflicts. Because Bella met no resistance when she married Edward, Charlie did not freak out about the Cullens being vampires, Bella did not have to choose between Jake and Edward and there was no duel that cost a life dear to her.


Exactly, and that's why I didn't really like the fourth book that much. Charlie should've been scared to death that the Cullens were vamps, and that his daughter was one too. The duel was what also really disappointed me. There was no sacrifice at all, and everyone got what they wanted. While I'm not against happy endings, I think that some sort of sacrifice should've been made. Look at how Rowling killed off her characters. She may have regretted it, but she did it because of dealing with pure evil. To me, Meyer should've done the same thing by either killing Edward or Jacob.

As for Jacob imprinting on Renesmee, that as way too easy for him. Plus, it's wrong on so many levels, which makes me surprised that Meye would allow such a thing. Ugh. I hated that.

I think Twilight would have been a better series if Meyer had introduced more of the Romeo&Juliet themes and conflicts. Because Bella met no resistance when she married Edward, Charlie did not freak out about the Cullens being vampires, Bella did not have to choose between Jake and Edward and there was no duel that cost a life dear to her.

Yeah definitely :agree:. There was virtually no resistance to Bella having what she wanted (Except for the sex thing).

Bella didn't have to go through anything. She's a pretty much weak character, I wouldn't want her as a friend. You know how Meyer says all girls should be like Bella. I was thinking, 'What has become of literature these days?'

Do other vampires usually have powers like the Cullens do? If not I think that her addition of powers like mind reading and future telling is really cool. I think the powers is the coolest thing about Meyer's vampires.

I agree that the powers are definitely cool, but there are other things that just irk me about the series. I did sympathize with Bella at the beginning because of her not being athletic because I'm the same way, and I hated gym just as much as she did for that reason. However, maybe Meyer meant to say that she feels Bella was courageous to follow her path with Edward and that girls should do the same. That's my take on it, but I do feel that Bella was pretty weak.

Do other vampires usually have powers like the Cullens do? If not I think that her addition of powers like mind reading and future telling is really cool. I think the powers is the coolest thing about Meyer's vampires.

In Vampire Chronicles, once the vamps are old enough they can survive in the sun, fly, communicate by thought, set fire to things, use telekinesis, etc. And even new vamps can read minds. But yeah, i guess the powers are the coolest thing in Meyer's vamps

Do other vampires usually have powers like the Cullens do? If not I think that her addition of powers like mind reading and future telling is really cool. I think the powers is the coolest thing about Meyer's vampires.

I love the vamps powers! I especially like the Egyptian vampire Benjamin's power. It was so cool how he could move water, earth, and fire! Maggie, the Irish vampire's power was cool too. Who wouldn't want to know when someone was lying to them?

I love the Romanions. They're the only real, gothic vamps in the series. They would be the only vampires I'd talk to, if I was in BD.

Okay, I've just never gotten this, and this may not be a place to answer questions, but... Whatever :D

So... Do vampires have blood or not...?

I'm assuming they don't in this universe because Edward doesn't even need to breathe. However, I do know that they can eat human food even though they drink animal blood.

When does the 5th come out? Or did it already? :scared:

We don't know yet. After the chapters were leaked, Meyer said that she was going to rewrite the chapters and wait for all of the hype about the book to die down. (One or the other, maybe both.)

isn't midnight sun just a companion novel? You can read the first 12 chapters on her website, but it's really not worth it. I do think the writing is better in Midnight Sun, Edward's more interesting, but it's just the same story

Wait, what's this fifth book supposed to be about?

Wait, what's this fifth book supposed to be about?

It's Twilight from Edward's point of view.