The Death

I still can't quite believe Sirius is dead. For me personally, as my favorite character, I feel quite a deep sadness at him being the one to go, but I always knew it would be someone very close to Harry and if it wasn't going to be Hagrid (as I originally thought) it had to be Sirius. But what did you guys think of how he died? I thought it was clever, there was no time to stop and take it in, he just died and there was still this battle going on. It was incredible.

Harry's grief was, to say the least a real hard thing to read, his anger just coming out (again) and not knowing how to handle it, who to blame. When he was shouting at Dumbledore, I just felt that pain of not knowing how to deal with it, of wanting to hit out at everyone and smashing a room up when you're grieving is not a bad thing.

Anyway, what were your opinions of his death?

I wish it didn't happen, but know full well that it had to. I cried and feel awful even now about it, but at least he died fighting.

I think the reason it hurt so much is for many many reasons ...
1) He was most people's favourite characters, and one of the most interesting ones.
2) We thought he had a bigger role to play ... he had a whole book named after him, and it seems so strange that he dies two books later.
3) It was an accident. It needed never to have happened, but it did.
4) He never got to say goodbye to Harry, not properly.
5) He never got revenge on Wormtail for James and Lily's death.
6) This is the most important reason, at least for me ... he had a potential story mapped out in front, that we could all almost have followed. But Voldemort took that away ... he pulled the thread, and left it trailing into nothing. He cut the story short, and that's an awful thing. The story that would have been, never has. A hole has been made in the story, that unbalances everything. But that's what happens ... people in real life often never finish their "story" when they die. Their stories, their futures are taken away from them and it's hard to patch up, like the thread I mentioned. The thread has snapped, and we can't carry it on but we can't take it away from the whole ball. His whole story hasn't finished (Bellatrix needs dealing with), but he can't do it himself.

And I agree that Harry's response was harder to read than the death itself. Harry remembering things about him, especially, like looking out over the lake. Not wanting to believe it.

But like Luna said ... he isn't gone, he's just behind the veil. He's just somewhere else, and that's a nice thought. He's just ... over there.

Alright, before I post meaningfuly, I admit it. I bawled like a baby. I put the book down and cried. And I still get tears when I think about it.

Throughout the entire book, I was convinced that someone was going to die. Arthur, Hagrid and several others. And I had to re-read the actual death to comprehend what happened.

I don't think Sirius's storyline is quite over yet. We learnt a lot about his family, so there has to be something there, right? *clings to small hope*

Noooo! It was so sad. Sirius was my favourite character :'( I did have a feeling it might be him though.
Have been frantically trying to think of ways that he could come back and wasn't really dead but me thinks that very unlikely:(
Can't work out why it was necessary but I'm sure that there is a reason for it and we'll find out in the next book

i keep crying every time i re-read bits *l*

i hope to hell that he will appear in the future books somehow...it has to be a plot device. a gratuitous death of such a wonderful character would be a terrible loss to the story.

****** i loved sirius! how can he DIE! :(

I found it quite boring. I read it and went "that's it?". It didn't affect me at all and I'm somewhat disappointed at how a non-thing it turned out to be.

tabby ... you what?? Non-thing? How could you be so blind? Even if you felt nothing for Sirius (for some strange reason), you can't deny what a hole it's left in the story, for the characters it's effected and the story it's wounded. I cannot believe that you thought it was boring, and it's NOT a matter of opinion ... it did effect the books, whether it effected you or not.

it wasn't so much at his actual time of death i was so upset, although it did shcok me slightly, even though i had thought it would be either him or remus. it was after, seeing all harry's guilt and feeling how harry must have felt at losing his last parental figure, and the 'if only' thoughts that had run through my mind.

tabby ... you what?? Non-thing? How could you be so blind? Even if you felt nothing for Sirius, you can't deny what a hole it's left in the story, for the characters it's effected and the story it's wounded. I cannot believe that you thought it was boring, and it's NOT a matter of opinion ... it did effect the books, whether it effected you or not.

Whoa, calm down there mate.

I was actually just refering to the death scene itself. I found it incredibly boring. It's cool that you don't agree, but what you think isn't relevant to how entertaining I found it.

The death will affect Harry, we've already started to see that at the end of OotP and it will continue to do so. I expect we'll be seeing Harry trying to deal with a lot of guilt in regards to Sirius in the future books, and his hatred for Snape has only increased threefold because he's also placing blame on Snape. That is great, and I can't wait to see how he deals with it.

tbh i was not to happy about it becuase i would have prefered it to be a more main character. i mena all through the book we get built up about whos going to die. at one point it seems like it may be rons dead, but he survives. we get to the last few chapters and theres only the 6 kids there. we start to think "is it one of them then?" so then the members of the order come in and kick *****. then sirius is it and falls through the veil. i stop. i re-read it again, not exactly sure what just happened. the veil was never explained to us so when he falls through were not sure then it dawns on us, hes dead. but in the middle of all this is he dead or not i don't really feel that much of a loss. of course he was an important character and it affexted harry greatly, but i just felt it did'nt hit me enough. maybe if the death had been more clear, like him being hit by Avada kadavra i would have felt more sorrow, but i didn't. and i got a feeling that i would have prefered it to be a more main character like ron or hermione. i would been very upset if one of them had died but that would have made it more interesting for me. what do you think?

Gutted. I finished Sunday night and the dull shock of disbelief has kept me awake up till now. I'm getting ready for work, feeling like ... well, terrible.

I just trust that Rowling has her master plan all worked out and that one day, it'll make more sense. But for now, it's just... :(

Tabby, the death scene was terrible though! He died so quickly, so simply yeah, but he died fighting and Harry's reaction (right after the death, even, when Lupin was holding him back) was almost unbearable, and the fact that nobody could do anything because there was work left to be done ... And the fact that he died fighting Bellatrix is important, and the fact that he fell through the veil ... I just can't believe you found that boring. I thought he went with a bang.

Sirius... :'(

I couldn't believe it when I read it. I had no idea he was going to be the one done in, I thought it was going to be Neville or Ron. And when he fell through the veil I just kept thinking Harry's going to go in and rescue and him, pull him back somehow but it didn't happen! It just happened too quick. And it's awful, like you said Dedalus there's so many things I was still expecting to see Sirius do. I was sure he'd be one of the few to make it right to end of the series!

And also what to go! One minute he's dueling, the next he falls through that portal thing and he's dead. It was just... I dunno so weird and unexpected. I'd have thought the noble Black would have had a more noble death than that.

I wasn't sad at first. It didn't quite sink in. I had known a death was coming, had been through all of the other characters during the novel because lets face it, at many times it could be any of the chars Harry's close to... we have Hedwig, then Mr Weasley, then Hagrid, the list goes on. So when it happened... I just... I was glad it was Sirius and not someone else. And now I feel absolutely terrible for saying so. I think the fact I didn't understand quite how he died until after reading was a big part of this mentality.

Now I keep getting teary eyed whenever I think of it. Poor Harry.

I had known there was a huge possibility of Sirius being the one who dies as I have read it in a forum before I went to buy the book cause I thought that it wouldn't arrive in my country for days. I felt teribble at the thought and I hoped they were lying, especially when I was at chapter 32+ and he was still alive. When I read about his death I felt as if a real person had died. I didn't cry but I never cry when real people die either (not that I don't feel very sad, I just don't cry). I felt so sorry for Harry that the only relative he had who loved him was dead.

Originally posted by Dedalus (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=387598#post387598))
Tabby, the death scene was terrible though! He died so quickly, so simply yeah, but he died fighting and Harry's reaction (right after the death, even, when Lupin was holding him back) was almost unbearable, and the fact that nobody could do anything because there was work left to be done ... And the fact that he died fighting Bellatrix is important, and the fact that he fell through the veil ... I just can't believe you found that boring. I thought he went with a bang.


I'm really thrilled you thought that. I hope everyone agrees with you rather than me. I just can't help my reaction to his death. I can see where it's going, but the death itself was very much a non-issue for me. I wish I agreed with you. :(

I was upset. I always hoped Harry would eventually go and live with Sirius as a sort of reward for defeating Voldemort, but now we know that he won't be. However, his death was done well. The heat of battle, you don't have time to think at all. I liked the way he died, without trying to sound too morbid..

the thing is though was he storyline going anywhere though? i mean the ministry still thought he was a voldemort supporter and i doubt even dumbledore could prove them wrong as they have more important things to deal with. this would lead to sirius being stuck in his house for most of the other books, not really being able to go anywhere. well thats what i think. i doubt anyone will agree but there you go.

I was at a loss until a re-read. It took that long for it to sink it. I was numb, and it wasn't till I saw him speaking again that I realized that he really was gone. I had to put the book down for a while after that.

The closest thing I could compare how I felt then was with how Harry felt - like something was missing, upset but really not able to feel it. At the time of the death, the reason why it didn't sink in was because it seemed like Sirius wasn't at risk anymore, no one really was, and then....I had expected Sirius to die, but something drew me back. And then he did.

For some reason the part before it, when he's fighting with Bellatrix, stood out more in my mind. When she blasts him with the spell that knocks him in, he turns around with a happy look on his face, then his eyes widen in shock as he realises he's been hit... that seemed more poigant than his actual death.

Ah well... at least he died kinda happy... :sigh:

I understand what you mean Matt.
When I read it I just started bawling my eyes out, I was sobbing. I really like Sirius though so that could be part of the reason.

When Harry saw Mr Weasley attacked by the snake I thought this was the death....and then he was ok. When the actual death scene came and went, I was disappointed. JKR had written him into a bitter character with a sulled past. more moving was Dumbledore explaining the reasoning behind not making harry a prefect.
We are also left to believe that harry will be able to talk to Sirius through the veil in the future.

Really? I didnt get that bit. (About Harry talking to Sirius)

It was sad, yes, very sad. Sirius had been so cheerful over the course of the book -- with him singing Christmas Carols and all, and I think that we all were just getting to like him and know him even more as a person, when BANG! ... and all of a sudden, he was dead. I never expected him to die -- rather, I thought that one of the Weasleys would, but alas, Sirius is gone. Poor Harry ... and poor Lupin -- he's the last true Marauder left, isn't he?

i think we are indeed going to find out more about the veil...nearly headless nick's comments about sirius going on were not just idle chatter. we know what jkr is like for putting in future plot devices. i just hope it's not another three years we have to wait!

The death didnt affect me...I didnt think much of it BUt it was a surprise i expected it to be Hagrid or ginny.....

Even after people said Sirius was dead and to let it go I still wasn't confident it would be him. First, because it appeared that it was a Stunner that hit him(being red and not green)...maybe they just didn't see the right thing hit him. But, after turning the page I realized that it really was him...and I do think it was the doorway. Once you enter it there is no coming back. Still, the moment it happened I thought it could be Hermione or possibly still Arthur(maybe the venom wasn't removed completely kind of thing). For me it more sunk in when they were in Dumbledore's office. The clincher was the single tear that went down Dumbledore's face(though that was most likely a tear for the sadness that Harry was feeling but still somewhat for the loss of Sirius).

That part was really, really sad. Wasn't that room mentioned as the room of Death? Apparently, Sirius was Stunned, then he fell in, which was what killed him. Didn't Harry and Luna hear voices beyond the veil? Perhaps we'll find out more about that in the future.

I'm taking this pretty hard. I just started crying and put down the book.
Then when Harry tried to contact Sirius through the mirror I felt so empty.
He never got to live a full-life. First he lost his best friends and then spent 12 years in prison. :'(

But did he die before or after he went through the veil?

I'm guessing after...it appeared to be a stunner that hit him based on the description.

That part where DD cried was really sad too. It made me cry again.

Yeah, I was completely shocked too. One minute it went from mopping up the last Death Eater, Bellatrix, to having Harry's godfather dead. I full on couldn't believe it at first, and still when I think about it now i just can't believe it...

On the topic of the viel I don't really get what it actually was, and I can't really form a mental picture of that entire room. Was there a spiralling pit in the middle, with wooden benches cascading down on the walls of the pit, and then at the top was there the veil on one side, and on the other side the exit back to the circular room?

Anyone good at describing it, please?

i had a feeling it was sirius.. because of what JKR said.. "harry will experience death like he has never experienced before" or something along those lines... it made me think of sirius.. his death was the first death that harry witnessed of a family member...

i think it hurt everyone so much because sirius was very good friends with his father and he was the only real person who actually understood harry (understanding his impulsive mind)... harry sort of got to know his father through sirius... and now he has no one.. =(

i can't help thinking that the fact that he wasn't dead, but stunned (if, as evidence points that was the case) that something curious will come from this. obviously, he cannot 'come back'...but if he was not truly dead, does he entirely belong there?

my mind seems to keep wandering to the amber spyglass, and will and lyra's journey to the world of the dead. obviously, it's not going to be the same, but theories just are weaving...

I'm going to get my head ripped off for this, but... I was GLAD it was Sirius. Not that I didn't like him - I did, thought he was a great character - but I was just relieved that it wasn't Hagrid or any of the Weasleys. Sirius was never a primary character to me. The primary characters (in my mind) are: Harry, Ron, Hermione, Dumbledore and Voldemort.

Secondary characters (again, in my mind) are: Hagrid, the rest of the Weasleys, Snape, Minerva, Draco and the Dursleys. I MIGHT be willing to include Sirius in this group, but more likely I would lump him in with a tertiary group that would include Lupin, Cho, Seamus and Dean.

He just hasn't been a major player in the other books. Sure, a mention in PS, a book devoted to him in PoA (though he was the antagonist for most of it) and a few letters, floo visits and one trip to Hogsmeade in GoF... I just wasn't that hurt about it. I almost felt gypped. Like "HIM? He's not a major character... What was JKR blubbering about?" I also felt that Harry's reaction was WAY overdone. I don't think JKR ever developed Harry and Sirius's relationship enough to merit such a response from Harry.

As far as the MANNER in which he died... Well, I had assumed (and figured everyone else did, too, but after reading the posts, maybe not) that the veiled arch (being in the "Chamber of Death" as Dumbledore mentioned) was the execution method of choice in the wizarding world. I don't know whether they have capital punishment, but I'm guessing they do and this is how it is performed. Although, what crime would merit that is anyone's guess. If Sirius wasn't executed (by the law), I can't imagine who would be.

I can't help thinking that the fact that he wasn't dead, but stunned (if, as evidence points that was the case) that something curious will come from this. obviously, he cannot 'come back'...but if he was not truly dead, does he entirely belong there?

Hmm...interesting. I highly doubt he died from the red beam from Bellatrix, he simply died from falling through the veil into Death...obviously everyone behind there is dead, so once he fell through, he had to die too...

I would of rather Hagrid die than Sirius...Sirius was so blindly devoted to helping Harry, and Harry was somewhat dependant on Sirius to help him through tough times. And now he's gone...

I can't help but believe we'll see Sirius again, sometime, some way.

Nevertheless, it wasn't so much the death itself that I found sad, but rather watching Harry deal with it. That's what brought a few tears to my eyes. I am also curious to know what Snape's reaction is to this, being as Sirius died as an indirect result of his taunting him that he never did anything but sit around the house, while Snape and the others were out doing "important" things for the Order.

I might cause an argument with this one, but I do have to say that I do not think Sirius died a noble death. He died in a needless display of bravado, and though it fits his personality, its not a positive view of the character at all. Positive or not, it's true. Sirius was always one for celebrity and showiness, and it came back to bite him.

Hello, I'm a new member, making my first post...

I feel absolutely terrible. I finished reading the book only a few hours ago, and I cried so hard on and off during the last few chapters. I had a feeling that it was going to be Sirius who died, but I kept telling myself I was wrong, that it would be someone else -- someone I wasn't this attached to. While reading Harry's reaction both right afterward, and when he was in Dumbledore's office and then at the lake afterward, my eyes were so blurred with tears I could hardly read.

I still feel so terrible, as though someone I knew in real life has died :( There's still this dead weight thing inside me.. and I almost feel like breaking down again. ::sniff:: YOu know, till now, whenever I read the last 4 HP books, at the ending I usually felt satisfied. But not with this book. I feel like there's this big hole inside me.

Why did it have to be Sirius?! Poor lupin.. he's the only marauder left now. (and wormtail doesn't count!)

Do you realize that if Harry had used his two way mirror thing right after the dream, it might have been more effective than using Umbridge's fire, that Sirius might have had the other mirror in his pocket at the time, and that all this might never have happened....

I think I'm gonna break down again..

YOu know, till now, whenever I read the last 4 HP books, at the ending I usually felt satisfied. But not with this book. I feel like there's this big hole inside me.

That's the exact same feeling I've got. I wasn't satisfied at the end of the book at all...I couldn't take my mind off Sirius' death, and it just didn't have the same sealed ending as the others.
Like in the first one, the Philosophers Stone was destroyed, in the second the school was returned to normal, the third had Sirius turn out to be innocent and him escaping, while the fourth saw the return of Voldemort! The fifth book just didn't seem to have that same concluded feel to it...

Yeah, it's as though there's this big hole inside me. :(

Firstly I would like to say that Bellatrix, having tried to murder Neville and also killed Sirius, is a totally foul and vile character... As Dumbledore said, there are things worse than death and one day, when either Neville or Harry want to kill her, they will probably forgive her, leaving her with the memory and horror of her crimes...

I was just thinking, when sirius passed Harry the wrapped device(turned out to be the mirror), i was like thinking it must be some sort of communications device, like a cellular phone in the wizarding world, then, why don't Harry throw the mirror through the veil and talk to Sirius? Of course, JKR won't allow that since she said in a recent interview that the death is definitive.

Lastly, I want to debate what Harry said... He said that either he had to murder or be murdered, but this is not true... Neville could well turn out to be the murderer or any one else... One cannot exist when the other is alive, but they do not have to do each other in.

I'm sorry, but like Jerkwater, I was relieved when it was Sirius. JKR was cruel with this one, first I thought Arthur was going to die, then Hagrid, then McGonagall....

I've always felt that Sirius had a hard, cruel streak in him, and it came out more in this book. Dumbledore as much as said that Sirius might not have been dead if he had been kinder to Kreachur. As to Snape, Snape did what he could to help, and I doubt that it was anything he said that made Sirius risk his life. (Come on, Dog Star, Harry is in danger, and you think Sirius went running to the rescue because Snape made snide remarks at him??? Wild horses couldn't have kept Sirius away.)

I am sorry that we won't get to see any sort of closure or resolution to the Snape/Sirius feud. I was hoping they'd work it out.

By the way--has anyone thought about Harry as Sirius's heir? He's Sirius's godson. He'll probably inherit the house....and Kreachur!

Why didn't Sirius mention the mirror to Harry when he was in the fireplace? They spoke via floo 3 times, all of which were risky and Sirius didn't bother to mention the nice safe and easy method?

Plotwise I see why it wasn't mentioned. It would have cut out the trip to the ministry completely and removed a plot device that can be used to increase Harry's guilt but it did annoy me.

I do think it will be used for guilt in the next book. Without a doubt. Had Harry opened the package early Sirius would likely still be alive. We just need to wait for Harry to realise.

It's strange to say this about a fictional character, but I have to admit that I took the death of Sirius Black very hard. He was one of my favorite characters, and I falsely believed that he and Lupin would be around to help Harry until the end of the series. Like Matt, I think I had this image of Harry going to live with Sirius at the end of the series, and he'd finally be able to settle in with family who loved him. I was surprised by Sirius' death because I kept thinking that JKR would not kill Harry's only remaining parental figure -- it would be too cruel. I was obviously wrong! :( The part with Harry screaming into the mirror for Sirius was just heartbreaking. I wanted to see more of Lupin's grief (since now his two best friends are dead), but I expect we might get more of that in the next book. :sigh: Sirius was my second favorite character (only behind Lupin), and it's really hard to accept that he's dead.

I, like many of you, felt (and still feel) empty after Sirius' death. It wasn't a weeping sort of moment for me -- I was just kind of cold and breathless. It seems an awful thing for Harry to have to go through it all over again....losing a "parent," you know.

I hope he can, somehow, communicate with Sirius beyond the veil. The books won't be the same without him.

Originally posted by Inkwolf (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=387840#post387840))

I've always felt that Sirius had a hard, cruel streak in him, and it came out more in this book. Dumbledore as much as said that Sirius might not have been dead if he had been kinder to Kreachur. As to Snape, Snape did what he could to help, and I doubt that it was anything he said that made Sirius risk his life. (Come on, Dog Star, Harry is in danger, and you think Sirius went running to the rescue because Snape made snide remarks at him??? Wild horses couldn't have kept Sirius away.)


It likely wasn't Sirius' only inspiration, but there is no doubt in my mind that it played a part. Snape was probably, in a way, reminding Sirius of how little he could do to protect his godson.

Okay, I'm going to put it my 2 cents here. First, I need to find out who Mungglebunny is and throttle the *******! That spoiler he/she posted was right on the money, so I spent the entire book knowing that Sirius was going to die.

But at the same time it allowed for some interesting analysis of the whole Sirius/Mrs. Weasley dynamic. They were like the angel and the devil on Harry's shoulder. Sirius was the mischevious child who was always encouraging Harry to take risks (a la James). Mrs. Weasley was the adult who was always encouraging Harry to be careful.

I think Sirius' death in this book represents more than just the death of a major character. I think it represents the end of Harry's childhood. That's what JKR meant when she said the character HAD to die.

I began to think it was sirius throughout the book but really really hoped I was wrong.
I know exactly what everyone means about the story there was there. I really hoped JKR would twist it as she does and wished it had been one of the 6 students there not him. What made it worse was Harry realising what he'd lost and when he found the mirror it just made me cry all over again.
I do wish that we had seen more of Harry and Sirius's relationship.
I don't understand if-if I was Harry I would have wanted to find out as much as I could about my parents and everything as soon as I could spk to sirius.

Sirius's death didn't really effect me, I didn't actually realise he had died until Lupin said something, it was all so abstract.
I felt a bit cheated about this, because before book 5 Sirius was my favourite character, and when i read him in this book he seemed increasingly hypocritical and selfish.
I think the whole 'Veil' idea could have been a great idea- especially with the hearing the voices behind it which seemed to have a connection with why some people can see Thestrals. But i think Sirius deserved a better death. I actually thought Mr Weasleys attack was more distressing than this death, so I was among those wondering if this actually was "the death".

poke:

I was betting on Lupin, as anyone who read the theory thread knew.

Right up until Kreacher appeared for the first time. Then I knew.

Now, I have to agree that the death scene wasn't that great in one perspective--there wasn't much of it, with so much going on. But that's the way it happens sometimes, and obviously what JKR wants to emphasize isn't the grisly death of one of our favorite characters (which is just as well, as this is a Children's book), but the effects it has on Harry.

I doubt he'll continue to blame Snape for long, not really. If he'd practiced Occlumency, if he'd gone to Snape, if he'd remembered Sirius's gift...

So many possibilities for him to lay blame on himself.

i dunno if anyone had read it earlier, but don't you think Harry should just throw the mirror into the veil and talk to Sirius?

i had tears fallin on the book! i was hoping they didnt make the pages stick together!!!

I'm still in shock...

I can't accept it. I kept thinking, no, he can't be dead, he only fell through the arch, he can't be dead, he's just disappeared, that's all...

I still hasn't quite hit home yet. I dreamt last night that Sirius was giving Hermione Buckbeak's rats for safe keeping. I think I'm still in shock...

I was crying during Dumbledore's explanation... poor Harry. He had his godfather for a year, and sort of became best friends, and now ... now he's gone.

Before the book, I was expecting Hagrid to die. But as soon as I started the book I thought Sirius. But then I thought no... she's already tried to kill him before (well his soul getting sucked out anyway). I kept thinking Sirius, but well then Mr Weasley, but that was only for a short while. But I wouldn't have been bothered if he'd died. Anyway, then I started to think Ginny (when they got to the department of Mysteries). I'd given up on the Sirius idea, because by then I thought it was too obvious. However, stopped thinking Ginny for the same reason I didn't think Sirius would die - she'd tried to kill her before.

The death itself confused me (wasn't sure if it was the spell, or veil that killed him), but then that's probably because I was speed reading and I haven't re-read it because my brother's reading it now. Sirius was the only character I didn't want to die, because I was expecting Harry to go live with him after book 7. Also he was my fav character, except for Lupin. I just can't believe that Harry never looked at that mirror Sirius gave him before. Surely he would have looked at the gift Sirius gave him out of curiousity.

Like others, i didn't really understand the purpose of the veil. I thought it could have been explained better or maybe someone like Lupin should have told Harry earlier on to stay away from the veil, its dangerous or something like that to foreshadow what was to come. Because i didn't know the veil was dangerous.

I was so convinced Hagrid, Neville or Ginny would die. The thing was in the battle scenes, because i knew there would be a death, i got so anxious every time a character was in possible mortal danger. I was like...oh thats it, Ginny's gone...OMG it's Hermione!...No, Neville..etc. I had to cover the pages with my hands because i didn't want my eyes to slip and read the death!

I loved the fact that Rowling put Ginny, Neville, Hermione, and Ron in mortal danger. I had no idea who was going to die and all of them seemed probable. Having them all there was torture on my mind...but in a good way.

Okay, Sirius fans. Brace yourselves. And kindly look at the title of my post before reading the body so you don't lynch me (I'm one of you). The first time I read his death, it felt tragic, but worse, it felt pointless. Family reunions are hell in these books yes, but this is an extreme we've never even imagined. Why did I think it was pointless?

1. He died fighting Bellatrix Lestrange, who despite her evil heart (she showed us what true evil was after we put up with that petty pretender Umbridge for almost 700 pages), was not truly a higher up in the forces of evil. A blasted, hollowed Morgaine le Faye, but nothing more.

2. The battle (at least as concerned the Death Eaters and the Order) was already over. Every other pair had quit fighting because Dumbledore had arrived. There was absolutely nothing of value to be gained, and everything to be lost by continuing the duel.

3. Harry is now trapped forever with the Dursleys. He doesn't quite mesh (yet) with the Weasleys, and though I'm still hoping for a Molly/Lily connection I don't think he ever will (completely).

4. The entire confrontation could have been avoided. Harry could have used the communication mirror to check on Sirius BEFORE risking detection by Umbridge. No point in not using it. The worst had already happened.

But, on a second read together with the Chase and the Duel with Voldemort I came to realize that Sirius' death was actually NECESSARY

Here's why: Voldemort had been manipulating Harry by using his courage, his past experience, and his curiosity against him. Harry's only defense, as it turned out, was the love in his heart. Harry had lost faith in his father, so his love for parents he had never known and hardly ever seen would not have been recent enough to focus on when Harry was fully possessed by Voldemort. Harry would have fought back in anger, but the harder he fought, the easier he would be to control.

Ironically, it was Harry's very pain, his very willingness to die (an expression of his rent heart and his love for his godfather) that forced Voldemort out of his body so quickly.

It also proved to be essential as a plot tool. Harry has someone new to hate (not the irritated dismissive hatred he feels for the Malfoys) total HATE. At some point in the next two books, Harry will probably have to choose between avenging his godfather and saving the world.

I agree that Sirius was a necessary death in the books. His death also gives Harry a new spur to carry out the prophecy.

Voldemort has now murdered all of his family, with the exception of Petunia whom he could never relate to.

The memory of Sirius is going to be what helps Harry have the courage to take the last step and kill him.

I've got tears in my eyes again... wait, though, I kind of want to explain the veil...

It was a metaphor. A huge, honkin' metaphor, especially suitable with the Chamber of Death and all. Is anybody familiar with the holiday Samhain? It's the point during the year (October 31st in the northern hemisphere) when the "veil between the worlds" (i.e., the living and the dead) is at it's weakest... this doesn't mean that this is what J.K. will do later, but it signified that whoever is beyond the veil cannot return. The whispers were all the people who have died, the Afterworld, and definately a worthy candidate for concealment in the Department of Mysteries. Sirius died from Bellatrix's spell. He had the frozen look on his face, like the Riddles and Cedric did, and there wasn't a mention of light for Bellatrix's last spell on Sirius, and it hit him square in the chest. Then, more for imagery and dramatics and so that we got the meaning, Sirius fell through the veil, meaning that he's gone.

I can't keep talking about him like that, so cold... I cried the whole day, I couldn't read the bits with Sirius in them, because I knew what was going to happen at the end. My family thought I was crazy, but a friend of mine understood. It killed me that if only a few things had been done, Sirius needn't have died, and he was the one character I was sure WASN'T going to die, I though J.K. wouldn't do that, he's my favorite... and she did. I know it's awful but after, I was wishing it was Hagrid or Mrs. Weasley. The line that made me put the book down and just weep was when Harry was being attacked by Voldemort telling Dumbledore to kill him, and Harry said
"And I'll see Sirius again"

Okay, I'm crying again. I should reread the book, but I don't know if I can... I weep, for Padfoot will never return.

I, like pretty much everybody else on here, was totally shocked.
(I would have put my money on Dumbledore being the one to snuff it)
About the veil. I believe that he died once he went through it. That going through the veil killed him. I don't believe he will come back as a ghost or anything like that. He's gone. Maybe Rowling did'nt want his death to be this big overblown scene? Maybe she had him simply go through the veil to represent death itself, passing on instead of "staying behind" like Nick. I don't think it was pointless. But even if Sirius' death FEELS pointless, remember this is war and often in war, people (even people we love) die for no apparent reason.

Throughout the book when I was reading it I had a feeling it would be Sirius. I am still trying to comprehend it. As having just completed OotP it is still sinking in. I guess the realisation won't sink in until the next book.

"...the prospect's black
Too late, it's gone
It won't come back"

Been running through my head all night. Drivin me crazy.

*sob* I cant believe it was Sirius. I mean it makes sense and all, but what exactly was the spell? I know they said he's dead, and JKR said someone close to Harry is dead, but we dont know what colour the spell was. The first was red, but it didn't say the second that made him fall into the veil. The second could have simply been a stunning spell, not avada kedavra. There is a possibility that when he fell into the veil he is alive, but we dont know whether or not the veil killed him. Some say its into a world of death, but is it? It wouldn't surprise me if the whispering was trapped people, and he somehow came back. I finished it yesterday, but I still cant get over the shock. I cried and cried and cried, and stupid Harry took it so badly. Sirius was my utmost favourite character and I loved him dearly. I'm still very sad, hurt and disappointed.

I was wondering, Lastrange or someone hit Tonks with the exact same spell and she didn't die.

How come Sirius did though...

The killing curse has green light, not red.

But I was very sad about Sirius's death, he was my favorite and i think Rowling killed him off because we liked him too much.

I think that eventually, the entire order will be dead.

Even though Sirius died, Book 5 has surppassed book 3 as my favorite in the series

I had a good idea it was Sirius from the first page . A big black dog leaving the house...

It was very frustrating to see Sirius get it. He was my favorite character; atleast how he was portrayed in the previous two books. His death upset me as much as Garet Jax's in the Shannara series. I just wanted to chuck the book out the window for a few minutes.

I just was NOT as affected by Sirius' death as I thought I would be. I felt the plot had pretty much prepared me for it. Sirius is reduced to living a life of hiding in a home for which he was obviously was filled with hate. For a man like Sirius, this was probably another Azkaban... to live so close to freedom, to be at the center of the fight, and to be forced to sit and watch it go by. I was almost happy for the character to die, it was a release.

Plus, I also had to double-back and read the part over again, since Sirius was hit by a stunner, not the avada kedavra, and he falls through an 'archway' and a 'veil' but since we are told nothing about neither I sat and asked myself if he was really dead. What IS the archway? I dunno, I had a 'is this it?' moment and then just plodded on with the story.

nevermind, i remember what it's from :D

The red light wasn't the spell that struck Sirius causing him to fall into the veil - he ducked that one and the second spell caused him to fall into the veil, and, die.

Sirius's death first of all was definatly not what I expected going into the book. My theory was that she couldn't possibly kill him off, because he had to at least live some of the rest of his life in freedom. Somehow I could feel the death was coming (when Harry departed from the OoTP head quarters, his last conversation with Sirius was a different mood... . I was sad when the moment came... one of my favorite characters, dying while he could've had his name cleared and lived a 'free' man.

As many of you have said I was shocked it was Sirius. I actually thought Hagrad was going to die. I had to set the book down and reflect what I had just read,I was so upset after that.:'( There are so many things unanswered like its incomplete. I have belief that that is the last we will see of Sirius
i dunno if anyone had read it earlier, but don't you think Harry should just throw the mirror into the veil and talk to Sirius?

1)Harry did not hade the mirror with him at the time
2)Harry probably did not know it was a way of communication and did not realize it until well after Sirius' death. For if he had half of that stuff would have never happend.

When i was reading the battle, it just went so fast, then when Sirius died I thought "Please let that be like mr. weasley's" but it wasn't I just kept reading and then I had to reread it. I was still in shock. Then, yesterday i finished the book, but today, the part when harry found the mirror popped into my head and the tears came.
There were soooo many times that i thought, 'oh! it's so-and-so' But it turned out not to be. I drove me up the wall.
And Rien? why did you have to post the thibng that was going through your head? it's making me crazy!!!!

I feel that the death wasn't well-explained and am also convinced that it had to do with the veil. Lupin and even Neville it seemed to know what the veil was, but Harry never outright asked "WHERE DID HE GO?" That bothered me a lot. And JKR specifically said the character is absolutely dead.

I was disappointed in Sirius's portrayal from the beginning as I expected to see some bonding emotionally when they all lived at the house. The reunion wasn't very exciting, given how happy Harry was even at getting letters from Harry. They didn't seem to get closer to each other at all, which would help with the death impact at the end of the story.

I think she's lost many of her adult audience with the death of Sirius, and the timing of this will affect interest in the POA movie, as it made Sirius a pointless character. It was probably necessary to the plot, but I found the cause of death and Sirius in general in this book to be disappointing.

i was expecting the death sceen to be a bit frightening and brutal, something that would make me cry. Falling through a veil to your death is not exciting and certainly didn't make me cry, i actually though i missed something and went back to re-read parts to find out how sirius had died, when i found out it was due to him falling through the veil all i could say was "oh.....okay then??"

I don't think it trivializes Sirus Character the thing is his death will be important because it will make Harry question himself and blame himself I think. It will also be something that could help him in his fight against Voldemort. Also I wonder if Harry will see Sirus again some how I guess she could throw in another Persive or answer the question about the Veil, it doesn't look like he will come back as a ghost, at least Nick didn't think he would and I guess he should know.

Lily and James never came back as ghosts either, but they've been in the books loads of times, as dreams, in mirrors, as old spells. I only hope we see something similar with Sirius. A character that cool cannot be left to rest in peace!

Originally posted by GryffindorSeeker
And Rien? why did you have to post the thibng that was going through your head? it's making me crazy!!!!


Because the merpeople's song just struck a chord when he died, I suppose. "The prospect's black" -- of all the prospective candidates to die in this book, it was Black. "Too late, it's gone, it won't come back" -- Rowling has made it pretty clear that he's dead for good; by time Harry realizes all the things that could have prevented Sirius from dying, it was already done, there was no way to undo it. The song is just eerie to me is all...

Originally posted by Fantome
I think she's lost many of her adult audience with the death of Sirius, and the timing of this will affect interest in the POA movie, as it made Sirius a pointless character. It was probably necessary to the plot, but I found the cause of death and Sirius in general in this book to be disappointing.


Ditto. The ONLY reason I am planning to read Book 6 is to try to find out WHY it was so very important to kill off Sirius. And if was just to show that people die and there's not always a reason, I can't see myself sticking around for Book 7. There's plenty of useless death in real life, why can't anything just work out for the best?

I can't believe what I just read from YOU GUYS & GALS not her. Sirius is far from a pointless character. I have no doubt we'll see him again and that he and/or the memory of him will play a role later. By the way, why do you people think the veil killed him? He died as soon as the spell hit. We know it wasn't AK, but couldn't it have been an abbreviated/desperate version of Dolohov's favorite attack (the one that almost killed Hermione)? His face froze as soon as the spell hit. He was dead before he hit the floor, before he hit the curtain. Harry may take the opportunity in later books to talk to his Godfather through that archway (if it is a geateway to theother side). Stick around the series is getting better as we go through more books not worse. And I really don't think Rowling's drivent hat much by movie royalty checks. Which is to say I really don't think she'd care if fans or nonfans made the mistake of thinking PoA was robbed of significance because of what happened in OotP.

The death itself was sad, but did not make me bawl. It brought tears to my eyes, but I didn't sob. The part that was harder to read was Harry's reaction to it. That hit me really hard. Harry was in disbelief. He had founf someone who was a sort of father to him, and he has lost him too. He has lost his mother, his real father, and his godfather. And Dumbledore, who was like a father to him for the first 4 books, had seemingly abandoned him until then. His reaction broke my heart. I really wish it hadn't been Sirius. He was such a wonderful character. It's so sad to see him be the one to go. I hope this isn't the end of him. The end was much to sudden. An accident in a way. He made a reckless decision to come along, and he paid for it. I wish he'd stayed put, and then he'd still be alive. and I wish Harry had found the mirror earlier, so this could have been prevented. Very sad.

So I am still working through this whole death thing, but I can tell by reading this thread that I am not the only one who feels as if they have actually lost someone close to them and real. I keep feeling silly for it, but its further proof of Rowlings skill as an author. Coincidentally, I was comparing the reactions here to the five stages of the grieving process and its interesting to see the progression through them (these do vary from source to source, so if someone else wants to add others from a different source, that's fine):

Shock
Denial
Anger & Guilt
Depression
Empowerment

Not only do we see various forms of these with Harry in the book, but they are present here in this thread as well. I think part of the unresolved feeling that I had at the end of the book is that Harry had not had a chance to thoroughly work through all that he was feeling yet and since we see the story through his eyes, neither have we.


On a lighter note, I also went nuts thinking each time someone in the book was in peril that this was it. I even fell for the Bogart pretending to be Ron. JKR had a really fun time playing with us while we waited. It reminded me of the feeling a friend of mine had when she found out her boyfriend had bought her an engagement ring. When he found out that she knew, he kept getting down on one knee and then tying his shoe or picking up trash. Same thing. I was brilliantly played with this time around and it made the book that much better for me.

Well, Stunning (as well as other spells and curses) causes people to freeze, fall to the ground, change expression, etc. It seemed clear that it was the fact that he had fallen through the veil that made his death definate. I was quite clear on the fact the the veil/archway was the cause-of-death until I came on here and read some people were convinced it was the spell. Now I have to go home and re-read.

This is actually a point of frustration with the book for me. Harry and Dumbledore ususally have a talk at the end of the books that sort of tie up all the loose knots for us, with Harry asking his mentor many of the questions the readers have. Not this time. Harry does ask what curse was used and doesn't even ask what exacty the archway was. Is the cause-of-death not significant? Is it because JK wanted us to focus on the fact he was dead, not on the cause? I'm having frustration over this.

Sirius's death was something of a shock to me. I started reading the book believing that Hagrid was the one who would be killed, but about a third in, when you saw Sirius' growing restlessness and recklessness, I highly suspected that it would be him instead. I admit that my curiosity got the better of me, and I flipped to the back to see who actually did die-- the first thing I glimpsed was someone saying that Sirius was "gone". I was kind of shocked to see it-- in disbelief I told myself that I may have taken it the wrong way, but then I caught the part where Phineas is asking & denying that Sirius is dead. I felt angry, more than anything, at this. Though she had been building up to it, I still couldn't believe that JK could do that!

I pushed it out of my mind for the last third of the book, and I was bracing myself for it when they were battling in the Department of Mysteries. I went numb and teared right up when Sirius actually died, but I didn't start crying until I saw Lupin-- he was shaken by it, and that was painful to read. Nothing really sank in for a while-- it was so sudden, and it seemed so pointless and avoidable (good post, jormundt6!), and Sirius was such a character, with so much potential that was cut dead.

Then, the rest of the book felt very heavy and empty (especially when Harry used the mirror, and was hoping about him maybe being a ghost)-- until Luna said what she did about him being, not gone, but only "beyond the veil". I think we may see more of Sirius, yet.

But he never got his name cleared while alive! What a tragedy! Though I never, ever imagined that his story would be a happy one, I always hoped that he would have this one justice. And I was hoping that he would have some sort of last words. He had only a last laugh! O, Sirius!

Beatrice, I thought that the stages of grief would come up at some point. It is interesting to compare them to Harry's, and others, process-- I commend JK for Harry's very realistic reaction to the death.

I don't think I have ever cried so much in my life, I was hysterical. Oh look I'm crying now. I suspected it would be him as the book increased, from when Snape was winding him up, and that image Voldemort tricked him with. Even when he wasn't there I knew, yet I refused to accept...I can't accept now, I refuse to...she can't kill him, she can't..

Sirius...

Before I started reading, I really thought that it would be Hagrid, but after only a few chapters I figured that it would be Sirius. Especially the fact that he was pretty eager to leave the house.

I tried to push the thought to the back of my mind though, but then he did die, and... :'( He was my favorite charater!

But it was very fitting I thought. He died the way that he would have liked. Even when Arthur was attacked, didn't he tell the Weasley children that Arthur knew that he might die, and that there was a risk of that happening when he joined the Order?

I really don't think that anyone (well, the DE that killed him) was responsible for his death. Not Harry, not Dumbledore, not Sirius, not Snape. Just Bellatrix.

I got the distinct feeling that Sirius didn't even really die, he slipped across the veil between the world of the living and the world of the dead. Nick said that people who die have a choice to go to the unknown or to stay as ghosts. I thought Sirius did not have that choice because he did not actually die, but fell into the afterlife. This is what gives me hope that Sirius will be back in some way. I thought Sirius was a very major character, even though the relationship was not long, it was the connection. Harry's parents named him godfather (by the way- does Harry have a godmother too?) this means Harry felt a connection to Sirius and to his parents by having a relationship with Sirius.

Before I started reading the book, I had my theorys(as did everyone) and I thought the one most likey to die was indeed Mrs. Weasley. Then I started reading the book, and Sirius(as we already knew would) popped up. And the first thought that ran threw my mind was "omg..I didn't even think about that..its him..I know it is). And him being my favorite character made me afraid to continue reading. Then we had the attack on Mr. Weasley. Which, as horrible as it was, almost made me relived(as mean as that sounds) I was upset, but thinking "at least it wasn't Sirius.." then, as we all know, he recovered. Then we go on to Mcganagal. I really didn't belive she was going to die from that, but I will admit it gave me a small hope. Then, as soon as I saw the words "there were only two left dueling"(or something to that affect) I knew, before even reading it, that this was it. I had to put the book down for a moment and sit there before I would let myself read it, after I did I was so upset I had tears in my eyes (when I was finished with the book, I sulked around my house for at least an hour.)

I know this death had a huge affect on me, as it did most of us here, but as alot of you are saying, I'm sure there had to be reasons. Harry does have to grow up sometime, and I think that death was the turning point.

Another thing is, I know alot of you are saying that Sirius might come back, and I reallyreally hope he does. But, I'm not having and easy time beliving that, because JKR has stated that this was only the begining of the deaths of significant chars and its going to be a "blood bath"(her own words) So...If hes only the first, I think we're going to have a lot more mourning to do that will push the idea of Sirius coming back out the window(for lack of better words) But, like I said, I really hope we do see something more of Sirius in the last 2 books.(only 2 more =( even more depressing)

I found it sad, but I was surprisingly uneffected by it. I don't know why; I feel like I ought to be sadder. It was not because I was expecting it--I thought it was Hagrid, and when he returned to Hogwarts safely I wasn't sure who it would be, but I never really thought Sirius. Perhaps this, along with the suddenness of it, startled me, so I didn't find it quite so heartwrenching. Or maybe its because I never really became that interested in Sirius--I liked him as a nice character, but nothing more. :shrug: I dunno... I was sad, but nothing more. I didn't find it that bad.

Sirius has to come back..he just has to. And no matter what anyone says...he's going to. I cried so much when i read it. I was like "no!!!!". I did like how JKR "matrixed" Sirius's death. He was my all-time favorite character. I think he'll be back though, even as a ghost. We dont know how long you have to decide if you wanna become a ghost or not. He might turn up like in a month or something. There are many ways for him to come back...and when he's a ghost..technically he's free...because there's no point in putting a ghost in Azkaban.

As you can see by my name, Sirius was my favorite character.

First it made me cry. Then it just made me mad. I mean, I don't see any reason for this. Then, she had to give us false hope. Twice in fact! I totaly thought that he would come back as a ghost because of his unhappy life, but no, she took that away too! I'm not as big of a fan as I was before. Now I have little hope for my other favorites because of the theories I have. Don't get me wrong, I'll still be reading the last two books. I guess Fawks will be my favorite now. Even Avada Kadarva couldn't kill him.

I also don't think that anybody except Harry was as upset as they should be. I excpected Lupin to something other than stand there and tell Harry Black was dead. Harry actualy showed emotion. :sigh: Yes, I realize that I'm probably overeacting.

Anybody have an idea why Phileus(sp?) is taking so long in his portrate in Black's place? Maybe somebody made one of Black? *get all hopeful*

All I'm saying now is I hope we have not seen the last of Sirius Black.

I don't think he'll be a ghost. You saw what he was like in the book, trying to bring back James in Harry. He'll go on to be with James again. I think I'm going to go now because my eyes have filled up with tears again.

I think its more likely he might talk to him past that veil or some other secert of the ministry. Also I am sad about it to, Sirus was one of my favoirte characters after Snape and Ron. Still what wories me is I have a feeling we will be losing several major characters in the next book I have a feeling Book 6 will be a blood bath though that is for another thread.

I have noticed something very important about people's responses to Sirius's death, and I know my personal response comes down to this: I read a LOT of fanfiction, and I also had big plans (including, coincidentally, a Harry possession story) to write about Sirius in the future. So I had a vision of Sirius and Harry and maybe Remus becoming a family together which isn't supported by the books. I had been looking forward to that when everyone stayed in the Black house in OOTP. Examining just the books, Sirius and Remus aren't very big characters. The fanfiction made us closer to them than perhaps we would have been and even the very best stories changed their personalities. On the positive side, it looks like JKR has some big plans for Remus, judging by the ending of OOTP.

The other characters are either not as close to Sirius as Harry was or they were adults and fellow members of the Order, and therefore prepared to witness the deaths of their fellow members. I think Luoin was shocked and saddened by his friend's death, but somehow not surprised. Lupin (and the others) already knew about Sirius' somethimes rash behavior and probably suspected it would get him in trouble one day sooner ar later.

I love the idea that Sirius fell directly into the "other side" and therefore did not die in a way that would allow him to be a ghost. That woul smake sense. Again, WHY WHY WHY was this not better explained? For an important death of an imporant character, I was more interesting in reading the how's and why's of his death than how Harry reacted to it (it was obvious he'd be devastated).

Sirius' death was a great shocked. I had hoped he wouldn't be the one who dies because I thought he could have an important role to play in book 6 and 7, but as some persons ( sorry not to remember the names hum ) pointed out it was necessary. His death was an even greater shock as we had just realised Voldemort hadn't been torturing and I felt relieved to find out it was ok, so "seeing" him die so quickly was even more painful.
And Harry's feeling towards Sirius' death were really hard to read too, especially when he yells at Dumbledore.

I just wanted to respond to what someone said earlier about fan fiction building up the importance of Sirius. I have never read one piece of fan fiction, mainly b/c I love the books too much and don't want to get confused - maybe I will read it after book seven. In any case, Sirius was my favorite character and that of many others I know as well who never read fan fiction.

Sirus's death hit me extremely hard because he was so much to Harry. He spent his whole life wishing for family other than the Dursleys, then he gets Sirius and now he's gone, too. We have seen Sirius's strengths and weaknesses at their worst and at their best. The pain of Harry losing his parents was not the same in that he always wished that he had them and never knew them. This time, he knew what he had when he lost it.


Additionally, a couple of things surrounding his death that have been mentioned on this board strike me as eery now, such as the merpeople song and the comment made by Sirius to Harry and the Weasleys that Arthur knew what he was getting into. Also bugging me is that Sirius was betrayed by Kreacher after what he said to Hermione back in GoF about how house elves should be treated. So much more is coming together upon reflection than came together for me on initial reading. Maybe I'm moving along in the grieving process...

:'( <--that pretty much explains my view on the death. I cried myself to the end of the book with it...poor poor Sirius, he had such a hard life=/

When I first read it, I did have a hint that it would be Sirius, but I was utterly dissappointed with the whole thing. I thought that Sirius' death was completely pathetic - he was my 2nd fav character (to Lupin) and it was such a stupid way to go - unceremonius, ignoble-bad, bad, bad! I also thought that the other characters reactions to it were badly written- lupin especially, we saw nothing from him-at all besides going paler.
I was pretty annoyed at it to say the least...

but then I re-read it, a little slower, concentrating on the death and on the others reactions and my opinion changed. J.K did a good job with it after all. The way Sirius died is very typical of his character - he charged in head first, brave, fighting back against the family he had hated for so long. And after re-reading I thought Lupin's reaction was very fitting of the reserved, calm person that he is - and Harry's emotional response was very upsetting.

The only thing I was against is that Harry didn't remember the mirror until so late on...it didnt fit right. And because of that Sirius' death still seemed to me rather pointless...but thanks to Jordmundt6, I see a small reason for it now and it makes more sense, so I'm not quite as annoyed with book5 as I was.

I really loved Sirius in this book, it was great getting to know more about his characters background etc- but I still would have liked to see more between his relationship with Lupin and Harry - there were only tiny snipits and now we're not going to see anymore are we?

I do think that harry will get to see sirius again- but not until book 7...i think that harry will 'die' but be given the chance to go back to continue the fight rather than b a ghost...and he'll see sirius then....or perhaps he'll speak 2 him via the viel...who knows!

im sure theres a laod more i meant to say but well my brain is a bit fried as of late so it has slipped my mind:)

toodles!

I agree Beatrice. I havn't touched fan fic (except Inkwolf's hilerious Mary Rotter and Hogwarts staff meeting ones!) and I was devistated. Sirius was the one bit of hope shining out to Harry, giving him will power to fight Voldemort, just so Sirius could be cleared. I at least hope his name will eventually be cleared!

It was stupid of me thinking JKR would kill Lupin, he is her favourite character, so I assume big things from him now, especially in my eyes he is the only true marauder left.

Sirius meant far more to me the first time I read PoA than he ever did after I read fan fics. That's when he became one of my favorite characters...he did so much for Harry, risking his neck to be that fatherly figure despite the fact that everyone was out looking for him. As Ron put it, "Snuffles must really love you, Harry, living off of rats." Sirius did love Harry, and I found that touching that he was risking his very life to be a father to Harry. Then JKR snatches him away. Of course that's going to be sad.

i was really upset both when he actually died ... and when harry was remembering him
i do however feel that there is no reasoning behind his death
i also cant see that we will see him again

i just think that the group of children were dam lucky that they all got out at the end... i also feel that the rest fo the order were lucky to escape

im sorry if this may sadden ppl... but if it does... just ignor eme :D lol

I've only ever read one fanfic (After the End on sugarquill.net) but that fanfiction made Sirius' death so much worse. In that Harry, Ron and Hermione are living with Sirius and Remus. JK Rowling didn't really develop Sirius' character THAT much before this book, but I've been expecting Harry to end up living with Sirius. It's just cruel, that's all he wanted to do at the end of PoA and now he's never going to have the chance. When Mr Weasley nearly died, I was relieved because I'd had a horrible suspision it was going to be Sirius... and then it was.

The death didn't make me cry, it just confused me. At first I didn't really realise he was dead, it was confusing. It wasn't very clear at all what was going on, not until Remus said he was dead. I found nothing about the actual death upsetting, it was just :??: what's going on? What was upsetting (but didn't make me cry) was Harry thinking he could talk to Sirius through the mirror. Suprised that he didn't realise 'oh **** if I'd only used this, WHY did I not look at the package before'. And that is the question... why didn't he? When you get a present, you don't just leave it in your pocket. It was after I'd finished the book that it finally hit me that he was DEAD, and well now Harry was never going to live with Sirius:'(

Originally posted by Helhorns (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=389681#post389681))It was stupid of me thinking JKR would kill Lupin, he is her favourite character, so I assume big things from him now, especially in my eyes he is the only true marauder left.

I also thought she might kill him because I read how upset she was after writing the death and as Lupin is one of her fave character it was kinda plausible.
And I really hope he'll have a bigger part in the books to come.

Concerning the fan fiction, I've never read one and Sirius was still one of my favorite character.

He didnt really die in vain - he died for Harry. In fact, I've just noticed a striking resemblence between Sirius and James.

When Voldemort came for Harry, James told Lily to take Harry and go - he'd try to hold him.

In the department of mysteries, Sirius told Harry to take Neville and go - and then went to fight.

Rather a resemblence, of the care for Harry and others. Sorry -- just something I noticed.

I hate to feel like I am constantly dissenting, but so many people are referring to Sirius's death as needless or pointless and I think that feeling is what makes JKR such a good author. How often does a death in real life feel needed? Whenever someone I know dies of anything other than old age/natural causes, I am filled with nothing but "if only"s. If only Harry had remembered the present, if only Harry had learned occlumency, if only Sirius had stopped dueling, if only Dumbledore had arrived ten minutes earlier, etc. Sirius's death doesn't make sense because if it is to be done realistically, it shouldn't make sense - at least not initially. Harry is probably now feeling about Sirius the way that Sirius once felt about James. Yes, drawn out death scenes can be dramatic and exciting, but they don't feel real like this did.

Edit: I also really like the point that Thayet made (it wasn't up when I first started writing). I like the parallels and just wanted to be clear that it wasn't that post I was dissenting with.

I'm so upset right now. I cried so much I had to but the book down. Everytime I tried reading I just started crying again. And I cried everytime his name was metioned. I even cried after I finished reading. I can't believe she killed him. She better have a really good reason for killing him! Better than just having to kill someone near to him, she could have killed mrs weasley for that, she's sorta a mother figure. I can never read books 3, 4 and 5 now. Knowing that he'll die just makes it too painful to read about how happy they are. Oh god, I can't even write this without crying....
I know it's only a book, but....still.....everything seemed so real.

I just didn't think at all that the death was satisfying enough. I love Sirus's character and thought of him to be really important, but I thought at the death scene "That's it?" It went too fast, and I was disapointed. Yes, I was sad when he died, but that shouldn't have been the way he died.

I loved Sirius. I really did. I was devestated at Harry's reaction to his death, and I hate that he's lost one more person he loved. I hate that Remus is all alone, that Sirius had such a hard life, that he died saving the child of his best friend. It's all so sad.

But I also hate the way Sirius died. It was so ambiguious and fast. I didn't have a clue what had just happened and my confusion dampened any remorse I would have felt. I just read on. It had zero impact on me. I would have preferred Bellatrix to hit him with Avada Kedavra, because the veil thing didn't make any sense to me when I was reading.

In saying that, I really hope that once I've re-read it my reaction will be different and it'll seem a little more real...

[quote]Originally posted by Beatrice Bottbean (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=389819#post389819))
I hate to feel like I am constantly dissenting, but so many people are referring to Sirius's death as needless or pointless and I think that feeling is what makes JKR such a good author. How often does a death in real life feel needed? Whenever someone I know dies of anything other than old age/natural causes, I am filled with nothing but "if only"s. If only Harry had remembered the present, if only Harry had learned occlumency, if only Sirius had stopped dueling, if only Dumbledore had arrived ten minutes earlier, etc. Sirius's death doesn't make sense because if it is to be done realistically, it shouldn't make sense - at least not initially. Harry is probably now feeling about Sirius the way that Sirius once felt about James. Yes, drawn out death scenes can be dramatic and exciting, but they don't feel real like this did.

I agree.

It bothered me that the death was so quick and there were so many unanswered questions. I wanted to understand what had happened, and I felt angry, I mean ANGRY, at Harry that he forgot the present that Sirus had given him. When he went to use the fireplace in Umbridge's office the second time to check on Sirus I was saying, "Remember the present! Use that instead!" And when Harry found it afterwards, I was like, "See! You should have used that instead."

I think these are the kind of feelings JKR wanted us to have because that is how Harry felt and that is how death happens in real life sometimes. Quick, leaving you only what a lot of "what ifs".

Throughout the book, as JKR built up Sirius, I couldn't help but like him just as much as Harry (hey, it's from his point of view anyway). When he was about to die, I could almost feel it coming, so I slowed down my reading so I could take it all in. But it was such a shock...my reaction was similar to Harry's. What got me the most what Harry's reactions - throwing things, crazy thoughts running through his head, the mirror. I was starting to get depressed...My dream of a "happy ending" to the series, living with Sirius (as many people had said), just went out the window, and I could so relate to Harry's pain. It just cast a whole dark-thing on the book, and rereading is so hard knowing what's going to happen to Sirius. He doesn't get his reward in the end for being a good person: jail, then hiding, then death. I keep thinking back to the scene where Harry is talking to Lupin and Sirius through the fire; then to PoA when Sirius asks Harry to come live with him; then back to OotP when Sirius is singing at Christmas. It's just so sad, and I never thought a book character's death could be depressing.

I can't believe it had to be Sirius who died. He had to be one of my favorite characters in the whole series, and definitely my favorite of all the adult characters. I mean, I've got 3 stuffed animals in my room named after him! When Harry had the dream about him, I almost screamed and I was shaking up until the time that he actually died. I definitely cried, and I had this feeling of emptiness (probably sounds stupid, since this is just a book), and I can't believe that we're never gonna see Sirius again! I'm completely confused about what happened with the veil, and I hope we find out more about that in the next book.

I WANT SIRIUS!! *sobs uncontrollably* *Stops suddenly* Oh my...acting a bit like Cho *sniff*...I really thought it would be Hagrid. I still can't believe that Sirius is dead. Gone. and Harry had never used the mirror, which was why he hadnt had it with him when he went through the veil. I still cant believe it. I was just staring at the pages, 805 and 806, flipping back and forth. thinking "no. No. NOO!!!" and then when Harry screams at Lupin "HE-IS-NOT-DEAD!", well thats when it almost hit me. But as usual, I didnt cry until something snapped. When Harry started throwing things at Dumbledore I started Bawling. it didnt hit me til then. I was so angry at Rowling. Then I wasn't. But I still want Snuffles to come back!!

I know it sounds stupid for some people that we cried just because a...well in your eyes...*make believe* character dies, but they are all so life-like....I am going to be so sad when I watch tPoA on-screen... Because we get introduced to Sirius....:(

I hope no-one gets upset by this. But it was rubbish. It was rushed and had very little emotional impact and Harry's response made it worse, he just got angry, if he had grieved then it would have been more upsetting.
I'll give it this though it was a total suprise. I never thought of Sirius! However When Hagrid was mentioned as being bruised and battered I knew it was only a trap to get us thinking that Hagrid would die. Dumbledore was hardly seen, ruling him out (you need to build up a rapport with a character before you kill them) also Jungian theory would prevent JKR from killing him. I was betting on Hermione but that never happened!
Shame really, I liked Sirius!

I like Sirius even more now that I used to. I am so sad that he was the one to die. Poor Harry. He lost the only true father figure that he has known. He loved Sirius so much. I feel terrible for him.

And his death was so un-finished. We didn't get to see his dead body. He just dissapeared behind the veil. What a terrible way to go. It doesn't really seem as final as death should be. I hope that in some way, Harry is able to re-connect with Sirius.

First off, knowing ahead of time was of no help because, naturally, I denied the world away.

Second, When someone I KNEW told me, I was at a cross walk and I literally had a breakdown. Histarically crying. Which, if you knew me, is big. Because I haven't cried in years.

Third, until I Sirius's body shows up, I refuse to believe it. He was stunned and fell into that potal thing, thats all.

Fourth, I almost burnt my book after I found out. It was a scary "Mis is going insane," moment.

I do think that the death was rushed, but the impact wasn't. Besides,
as you can obviously see by my name, He's my favorite character.

*BURSTS INTO TEARS*

I siriously considered boycotting the book when that happened, but it was what, four chapters from the end. Couldn't stop there. I did like that part about the ghosts though.

I pre-guessed it and I saw it coming. So when it listed the Order people coming I was Like "NOO!!!! SIRIUS GO HOME!" When he died I could not believe that it happened. Lupin assumed so quickly too, I thought that odd. To believe so quickly that the second to last (good) living Marauder, died. Very fast, even for Lupin.

what do you guys think about Sirius' last words? I thought it was soooo cruel [to us]. He told Bellatrix she could do better, so she did, and he died. It was just so cruel, so unmercyful - which made it more real...

one thing's for certain, it aint exactly a kiddie series anymore

Do you realise how many ways Siriuses death could have been avoided and how many what ifs are driving me nuts?!
- What if Sirius hadn't told Kreature to go
- What if Snape hadn't teased SB about staying home
- What if Sirius hadn't encouraged Bella
The list goes on and the only reason I'm not furious a JKR is that she felt just as bad (if not more) about his death then I do but she still did it so it must have been necesary for his character or the plot. But whywhywhywhywhywhywhywhy :banghead:

well i think that it helped her get rid of the ...i wonder when they are gonna clear sirius...plus now that harry has lost sirius he is moving slowly toward being able to kill...like he was able to do the cruciatus curse...need to help move along his anger

I found the death anticlimatic.

It felt very disjointed, rushed, and unemotional to me even though Sirius was a great character. Honestly, I was feeling worse about McGonagall getting stunned and Neville breaking his nose.

My problem with his death is that it lacked emotion from my (the reader's) perspective. I was completely hooked when McGonagal, Mr. Weasley, and the other characters almost died but Sirius' death seemed flat, like it was a mistake and he would come bounding out of the curtain at any time.

thats how i felt...when moody told harry that sirius was gone i was like no he isnt he'll be back for sure....but yeah as soon as dumbledore said it it kinda hit me.

I agree, Landoeli. He died right in the middle of the action and that's not a problem, but his body fell through the veil and was gone. There was really no time for Harry to reflect and realize what had happened the way there was when Cedric died and he had to return the body. I was shocked when it happened, but there was so much going on that it didn't have time to sink in. It also didn't help that Harry is kind of in denial. He almost cried after Cedric died, but he refuses to beleive that Siruis is really gone and continues to search for ways to contact him. I think this death lacked the emotion of Cedric's.

Am I the only person who bawled when Sirius died? I loved Sirius and now he's gone. I have also been comming up with ways it could have been avoided, one that no one has mentioned is Dumbledore's mistake. He should have told Harry everything a long time ago.That way Sirius wouldn't have had to die.

I agree that Sirius's death lacked emotion, and there was no real need for him to die in this book. So that leads me to believe that in one of the next two books, Sirius's death is going to have it's ramifications. Either they will need something that Sirius could have helped them with, or it will motivate Harry to do something.

NO, SiriusBlack3! You were not the only one! I cried soo much! That is the bad thing about deaths in Harry's world, they are just to fast, no good-byes, no I'm sorrys, no I love you or I will miss or even a chance for a NOOO! Just instant death. It is not fair. I think it had plenty of emtion. Sirius risked his life in order to try and save Harry. Once Harry saw he probably knew it would/could not end well. He risked his life doing something he would have wanted to do. He'd would have rather died fighting gallantly than having wasted away by dementors in Azkaban. Which says something really good about Sirius's character. At least he died ouside the house. But now I think we need to have a anti-Bella group.
But I still remain hopeful, you see did we ever hear Bella say "<i>Avada Kedavra</i>"? No.
Even though he is probably gone, his memory will be preserved in the map.

Yeah, I almost wish (actually I *definitely* wish) that I had not known anything about there being an inevitable demise of a major character.

I kept second-guessing myself and was worried almost to tears every time anyone got hurt or was hinted at possibly being gone. (i.e. Arthur Weasly with the snake attack, and when Hermione got hit with the unknown spell during the battle in the Department of Mysteries and Harry and Neville didn't know how to help her - that scared me badly).

The whole climactic battle near the end was insanely complex due to the large amount of people involved and the abundance of spells flying every which way, it was so difficult keeping track of who was getting hit and how severely hurt they were that I had to keep re-reading paragraphs over again to figure out what was going on and which people had been split up in the extremely confusing and annoyingly complicated Department of Mysteries.
Although when Harry first entered the Death Chamber and could hear the whispers coming from the dark veil, it conveyed a very sinister and ominous feeling - that was pretty **** cool. Gave me the shivers.

So anyway, continuing along in the vein of character deaths, I was being so paranoid about which character would eventually be killed that I didn't fully believe it when it finally happened and Sirius was apparently gone.
The circumstances were so strange and it all happened so quickly...I guess I somehow thought (or perhaps hoped) that it would have been a more heart wrenching scene...and not just for the readers, but for all the characters watching - especially Harry.
But the story just sort of continued along right away, barely skipping a beat to acknowledge what had occured. Harry was immediately furious (not sad) and goes rushing off to seek revenge straight away.
That's another thing that mildly irks me.
Harry spends so much time being simply livid with rage in this book (which isn't bad - he's dealt with a hell of a lot and has every right to be mad).
But I guess what bothers me is that I expected that after all of his numerous outbursts, he would ultimately crack (no, not go crazy) I mean, he would eventually crumble under the weight of some terrible loss (like Sirius'), break down and have a good cry.
I think J.K. needs to have this happen (in the next novel, or the last one at least)
And it wouldn't make me think any less of Harry, as if he were weak or stupid for doing so - if anything it would make him more compelling and easier to relate to...he's a tough guy, but he's not made of stone.
The closest he's come to crying is when his scar burns so fiercely that it involuntarily causes his eyes to water. (And yes, I know he *has* let a few tears loose (i.e. after all the horrific events in the graveyard resulting in Cedric's demise, when he was in the infirmary and Mrs. Weasly hugged him in GoF - *and* when he was down by the lake after visiting Hagrid near the very end of OotP I distinctly read that he wiped his face with the sleeve of his robes and went back up to the castle.)
I'm fully aware that he isn't completely devoid of emotions other than anger, but I would just like to see them displayed more or at least once in a scene that doesn't just hint at it.
I think he *needs* to release all that repressed sadness.
The most upsetting part for me, was when Harry found the old package Sirius had given to him, (I uttered a distinct 'Oh yeah!' when the package was mentioned, having completely forgotten about it) and discovered that it was a magic mirror that allowed a person to look into and chat with the person who possessed the matching mirror - like walkie-talkies only with images.
It was such a touching gift and it really emphasized how truly lonely Sirius was.
The shock of knowing that Harry could have used it to communicate more with Sirius (without having to worry about being caught by that sadistic Hag, Umbridge) and probably prevented his death from ever happening, just hit me and made me feel so sick – and that fact resonates so much stronger than any silly prophecies that took Dumbledore ages to spit out (Voldemort and Harry will have to battle... Well, duh! I’ve known it would come to that all along and I’m certainly no psychic! It’s just common sense – we all know that there’s got to be a final battle between Harry and Voldemort in the last of the books – as sure as Sunday’s the 7th day!)
And then when Harry attempts to contact Sirius through the mirror, repeatedly calling his name, only to be staring back at his own reflection with no response…(sob!) that scene really cemented it for me, that Sirius was truly gone.
The fact that Harry was trying to delude himself into thinking that Sirius might suddenly appear and answer him really broke my heart.
And I think that would have been the perfect opportunity for Harry to break down and cry… :'(
What do you guys think of Harry's bottled up emotions?
P.S. - Sorry this post was so long - I'm new here!

I also loved Sirius, and felt that his death had to be mistake. However, when no one else died, I realized *this* was the death J.K. had been talking about. I still can't believe it-- I loved Sirius!

Chimaera- love your username! ;)

I didn't really feel sad about it until Harry started reflecting on him later on. The death was such a... surprise, I guess. I mean, just moments before, I'd been happy that Harry's vision had turned out to be false and Sirius wasn't in any danger, and then he came, he fought, and I almost didn't notice when he died, amidst all the other action. I thought he might be hurt, but I didn't know he was dead until Lupin told Harry. I don't think I'll actually cry about it until I reread the book and it really sinks in that he's gone.

EDIT: I just read Muffykins' post and I have to agree that the mirror scene was so heartwrenching. There were SO many things that could have been done to prevent Sirius' death. I can see Harry blaming himself for this one. And isn't it just so ironic that the reason he didn't want to use the gift was to keep Sirius inside the house? :banghead:

I think that was the point. If Sirius had fallen down in front of Harry like Cedric, Harry would have no choice but to accept Sirius was really gone. But as you can see by the last chapter, Harry couldn't accept it. He was in denial and part of the reason for that is because Sirius's death wasn't real for him. He didn't see Sirius's dead body, didn't see where he feel, didn't see any blood or anything that would drive home that Sirius had been murdered and was truly gone.

The only things I didn't like about the death scene was that Dumbledore was there, Sirius had apparently left himself open to a direct chest shot and then afterwards, Kingsley and Bellatrix were apparently firing stun spells at each other in the room and yet Neville had time to walk over calmly, ask Harry if that man was his friend and have Lupin remove the Curse on his legs.

It all seemed so calm and paceful like everything was over even though it was suppose to be a hectic and chaotic. JKR also didn't resolve Harry's feelings about it at the end. He didn't seem to really accept it, he seemed more resigned. That's something that's going to have to be dealt with in the next book or two.

I also thought that the death scene could've been better. I for one didn't really understand the whole veil thing...I thought the spell was what had killed him. Maybe that was just because I was reading too quickly, but I dunno. After the near-death experiences of the other characters (Arthur, Hermione...) I expected it to be better. I was quite sure that Sirius was gunna be the one to die though...the whole dream was what instigated that feeling, but it didn't go away once I found out that wasn't real. I think this whole thing will have a huge effect on Harry...it's like losing three parents. He'll get his revenge though, I'm sure of that.

You've really got to appreciate that the suddenness and confusion was done on purpose. It wasn't a fault in the writing and it was meant to be that way, like it or lump it. Well, no, don't like it. Because if you liked it you'd be a bit sadistic.

At the end of the series I think Sirius will come back. I think anyone who died at the hands of Voldemort or one of his followers will be brought back after the dark magic that killed them is destroyed. Dumbledore said that no spell can bring back the dead, but if Voldemort can bring himself back from basically a spirit to what he is now, there's no telling what could happen. I'm also hoping that there is something about that veil we don't know, and Sirius will come back to open up a can.

I am utterly bewildered. I don't want to accept what happened, yet I know that Sirius is dead and there is nothing I can do about it. I finished reading late last night, and here I am nearly 24 hours later and I still can't get over it. I cried (something I've never done when reading) and had to periodically shut the book before I could go on. My first reaction was yell at Rowling and ask how in the world could she have done this - I know there are numerous people in Harry's world who really love and care for him, yet Sirius was different. He was Harry's family. Maybe they hadn't known each other for a terribly long time, but that didn't take away the fact that Sirius was Harry's godfather and therefore his whole family. It's somehow very different having really close friends and families which you are almost a part of (ie the Weasely's), than having someone who is your actual guardian.
After I recovered a bit from my shock, and have now had time to think it over, my impulsive anger towards Rowling has subsided considerably. I have realized that some of these things just happen as you're writting and once you've written it, that's that - there's no way to turn back.
I think Rowling did an amazing job writting the death scene and Harry's emotions afterwards (she is afterall a fantasticaly talented writer and person). I want to think that perhaps Sirius didn't really die, for you could make that argument (like many have). I want to believe it so badly, I want to believe that Sirius is going to come back, yet I just have a feeling that that is it. I have to let go and accept it, no matter how hard it is to deal with.
I think that is is so hard to deal with because we are all obviously so invovled in Harry's life and we care so much about every person, but I think it goes beyond that. I think that perhaps, Sirius' death brings up deaths, etc that we have all had to deal with in our own personal lives. Last winter I lost a really good friend in a skiing accident, and that unexpected lose is so immensely hard to bare. At least I can think that he died doing what he loved the very best, and so, as some comfort for everyone, it can be seen that Sirius also died doing what he wanted to be doing.
There's so much more I want to say, but I'm afraid I'd bore you (if I haven't already) - maybe I'll post something else later.

JK Rowling: you created a great novel!

I loved Sirius he was my favorite charater! I had no idea who was going to die but not Sirius..I loved him! I just kept telling myself that J. K. was going to bring him back in the next book but now after I am done reading it i dont think of that anymore..hes gone!! But I still hope..just hope that he will come back in the next two books. I cried right when it said that at the end of that chapter..when it was first said I just kinda thought that he was just falling a bit..about to come back until Lupin said hes gone..I cried. I actually felt so sad that I couldnt really even undersatnd waht Dumbledore was doing...because when Harry heard that Sirius was gone he ran after that..well I cant swear on here but after her I just cried even more..my favorite charater died!:( :( :'( :'( When he found that mirror a hope was inside me..but I cried again when it didnt work.come on it cant be true..but its really no hope....I didnt feel Harry was mad enough though..if it was me I would have been crying my eyes out..but I still think that he will come back..I hope.:'( But I guess I can hope.

hey, i'm new here..., anyway... the death seriously disturbed me, not only was Sirius my fave character, but the way that he died was so.....strange...

i didnt realized that he died until a while after, i thought that the death woulda been more dramatic that it'd make me cry...

anyway..., i officially hate the fifth book:'(

Originally posted by flibbertigibbet (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=390785#post390785))

EDIT: I just read Muffykins' post and I have to agree that the mirror scene was so heartwrenching. There were SO many things that could have been done to prevent Sirius' death. I can see Harry blaming himself for this one. And isn't it just so ironic that the reason he didn't want to use the gift was to keep Sirius inside the house? :banghead:


Yes, it really is terribly ironic, flibbertigibbet.
Terribly, horribly ironic.
Also, I forgot to mention that in Sirius' note attached to the mirror, he mentions that he and James used to talk to each other with the mirrors during detentions...(sniffle)
Mrs. Weasly wasn't off at all, in saying that Sirius was acting as if Harry was a reincarnation of James.
He obviously didn't think they were the same person - but giving Harry the mirrors just proves, yet again how lonesome he was and how desperately he wanted to talk to, and have a friend in Harry.
(excuse me...I'm going to go blubber now) :'(

I find that the worst part about Sirius' death was that it was mainly Harry's fault. True, he thought the dream was real, so of course he would try to help, but if he would have only opened the package Sirius had given him it would have been fine. He would have been able to talk to Sirius through the mirror and wouldn't have had to risk getting caught in Umbridges office or went to the Ministry.

I cannot believe that Harry never opened the package that Sirius gave him when he left his house. If he did that, Sirius would NOT have died, and Harry wouldnt have even had to leave the school, preventing the whole Ministry thing. You can also blame DD for not teaching Harry the Occ. stuff himself... w/e... i think JKR should not have killed Sirius.. everyone loved him... and im not seeing any reason why he shouldve died... ****it why couldnt it have been Snape...

Yeah, it took me a while for the feeling of sadness to sink in and for me to cry. I was so relieved that none of his friends, Hagrid, Mrs. Weasley, etc didn't die, that I was almost relieved that Sirius died. I feel really guilty about that! I was SO MAD that Harry never got out that package, I was sitting there yelling at my book telling him to open it, but well, we all make mistakes I guess...

"Dang you Harry, open your fricking present, talk to him, don't use Umbridge's office!!! Ahhh!!!!"

The other incredibly frustrating thing about this, is that Harry's talking to Hemione and says there's no one left from the Order to tell about his dream with McGonagall & Dumbledore gone. I can understand Harry not thinking of Snape, but there's no way Hermione wouldn't have thought of him....obviously JKR couldn't have that happening, but it really should have, and there would have been no need for breaking into the horrid one's fireplace & so on & so forth.....

Yeah so I'm trying to sleep for the first time since I finished the book on Sunday, and I keep crying. This is ridiculous. I can't believe that a book is affecting me this way... that's a true testament to Rowling's talent, I guess. But it still doesn't help the fact that I've hardly eaten in two days and don't wanna fall asleep in case I dream about it. /scream Ridiculous.

Maybe I'm wierd but i felt more emotion when Cedric died than when Sirius did. Heck, i felt more when Mr. Weasly and Pro. McGonagal were attacked. Sirius was really cool, and i dont mind JKs selection of those killed just wish it was in a better way. I too find the fact that his death was so pointless. I agree that Hermione would have thought of snape...and Harry should have thought of the mirrors, those must be linked in the next books because the absolutly have no purpose in this book. Just wish the death along with other things was just more entertaining.....2nd from the bottem of favorite books...

In defense of the death scene...

As more and more time has passed since I finished the book, I begin to realize just how incredible Rowling is. She took a death, but did not use the typical, dramatic and prolonged route that we are so accustomed to. She made the death of Sirius truly, and painfully, realistic. As so often happens in life, Sirius had no chance to say his last words to Harry. There was no slow motion, in which Sirius carried along an important message to his godson, reassuring him that he was loved. It was over, just like that. Just as quickly as Sirius's life had begun, it ended, and there was nothing anyone could do to stop it or change it. There were so many "what if"s floating around in each person's head. Sirius's confidence in beating his opponent got the best of him. There was no triumphant revenge of Sirius's murderer. There was no closure. In a blink of an eye, Sirius had been ripped from Harry's life. And the readers, just like Harry, were left to deal with the shock. The fact that Rowling took this approach, that she knew how realistic the situation would appear, and how deep the pain would cut itself into our hearts... it is unbelievable. We were left alone in our thoughts, with Harry, only to wish that Sirius would suddenly appear before the veil again. That there was something that could be done. That Sirius had not died, but only been knocked down, and he would get up, like all brave warriors. His death had come so abruptly that we expected it... we expected Sirius to be fine, perhaps only wounded, to come to Harry's aid as he had in the past. Like he promised he always would. There was no reason for us to doubt that Sirius would not keep his promise... that he would forever be at Harry's side. But Death is more powerful than Sirius's love. Rowling made this fact painfully clear to each and every one of her fans. And I applaud her for that.

Well...Sirius' death was certainly not as emotional as Cedric's until later in the book. However, if you have experienced the death of a loved one in your own life, then you can understand the lack of emotion in that scene. When Sirius just fell into the veil and that was that, Harry wasn't ready for it. He wasn't will to accept it because he had thought that people just fell behind the veil...like...a curtain...or something....Perhaps he thought Sirius was just knocked unconcious and he'd show up later. So in that scene it wasn't like Sirius' death was really...well...final. Another thing people say is that it wasn't dramatic like Cedric's death, but it just goes to show you that not everyone's death can be like that. Also, if Sirius had died like Cedric(I think someone mentioned this above) it would have been final to Harry at that precise moment and he wouldn't have all those questions and emotional roller coasters at the end of the book. He would have been able to accept Sirius' death a lot sooner. I also agree that the mirror scene was heartbreaking. I felt sooo sorry for Harry. I know I'd probably act exactly like him if I were in that situation...I just hope he repairs the mirror in later years so he can keep it as a memory of Sirius...I think in a way Sirius was more of a father to him than James was, so hopefully there is more Sirius in the coming books. When are they coming out?! **Cries**

There are so many "what-ifs" that can be asked...and I'm sure Harry will ask all of them.

My opinion on the death scene is that the moment when Sirius fell through the veil was just like any other moment. I was convinced he would come out, like most people do when they go through veils or curtains. The hardest part about that death didn't hit me until the next chapters when Harry is in a dream/denial state. That was the hard part for me. That was when I was most touched. I expect heavier and darker tones for 6/7.

All I can say is this...
Sirius did NOT need to die. He just didnt, and he should not have. why sirius? my poor sirius, I bawled. When he fell through the veil (still wondering how that works) I was like, get up at kick bellatrix's bum!! when Lupin said "He's d-" I was like, um, no, no hes not, he cant be, hes the best, no way, no no and NO! And for the first time i was so angry at dumbledore. If Voldie feared HIM why did DD not look at harry? If that old man just had it in him to teach Harry occlumency it'd be FINE! my poor baby didnt need o die. I was waiting for DD to pull him out of his hat. I also cant believe Im mad at a fictional character but hey, hes my sirius! woo, glad im done. and I also will not look at facts/ rumors on book 6, ruined it for me. I nevr expected the prophecy deal until some1 posted it or w/e. so yea, those are my 2 knuts...

I think that Harry knew he was dead instantly, but deep down, he simply refused to believe it. Sirius was the closest thing to him, his godfather, the one who had always looked out for him when he wasn't in Azkaban, risked everything for him. The couple of paragraphs where it said Harry was getting angry at Sirius now for keeping him waiting, but wait, Sirius had never kept Harry waiting.. He had risked everything for him, always.. etc - That was really emotional, and good. It reflected his caring and character and Harrys realisation, although he didn't like it.

Another problem is that Harry [and us since we see through his eyes] never really found out what was behind the veil. Since it just looked like Sirius fell down, how can we and Harry accept his death. It feels so incomplete and hollow. With Cedric it was different - we were given a description of him lying lifeless on the ground. With Sirius, it was more like, he's gone, deal with it. That's difficult for anyone to just accept blindly. We need to see them dead, to call them and see that they can't respond, to feel no pulse or heartbeat. We need that final bit of closure.

I think Sirius's demise was deliberately done to give Harry a death that was very personal. With Harry's parents, he never knew them so it doesn't hurt as much. With Cedric, Harry saw his body and heard him die, but he didn't really know him, he just felt guilty about it. But with Sirius...this is different. He knew Sirius, loved him and he was close to him. Now Voldemort has taken someone from Harry that he knew and loved. It's very personal now, it was personal before, but Harry didn't really 'feel' it. Now he does. The only family left that was worth a **** is now gone.

Remember in PoA, when Harry could've killed Sirius but he didn't? You know why? Because Harry had trouble taking the life of another. As angry as he was, he didn't have it in him to kill Sirius even though he thought Sirius had betrayed his parents.

When Harry faces Voldemort in book 7, Harry will remember his godfather Sirius Black and the pain it caused to see him die. Harry will have no problem killing Voldemort. On the surface this death seems meaningless, but it has it's purpose. Sirius dying was not worthless. It will motivate Harry to do something he has to do, something he wouldn't have had the strength nor courage to do otherwise - murder someone.

If it helps... I cried too, SiriusBlack3. :'( It was hard to continue reading knowing that such an important character was taken away just like that. And, Harry's response afterwards really touched me. Especially in Dumbledore's office.


The sun had fallen before he realized that he was cold. He got up and returned to the castle, wiping his face on his sleeve as he went.


If I'm not mistaken, I had the impression that Harry was crying because of Sirius. Am I wrong?

I think the death was done right.....it proves a point j.k. has been making that we have yet to really see.....How quickly Voldemort can change things, even though it wasnt him, it was on account of him.

Sirius was there and then he wasn't, no goodbye no emotional moment, just gone......That was how it was going to hurt Harry most.

Someone said it earlier in here but i forget who it was
This furthers along the mental state he needs to kill someone and for all the people who don't believe it will be harry murdering voldemort you are so wrong

I admit that I was a little confused, too, when it first struck me that Sirius had died. I realized that the veil was dangerous, and when it said Sirius was falling, I thought for an instant, "Oh god, he fell through the veil!" And yet, in the next paragraph, my heart totally sank....I felt kind of a prickle of forebearing, and then Lupin said "there's nothing you can do, Harry," and I sort of thought, "no...it can't be..."

Yes, it was a shock. But I agree with those who've said that that's the way it was intended to happen. I think Harry needs to come to terms with Sirius's death, and perhaps he never will fully feel satisfied with an explanation for it; he may have to realize now that death isn't always heroic -- it doesn't always happen neat and packaged and tear-jerking. Sirius's death was not heroic. It just happened.

Originally posted by landoeli (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=390708#post390708))
My problem with his death is that it lacked emotion from my (the reader's) perspective. I was completely hooked when McGonagal, Mr. Weasley, and the other characters almost died but Sirius' death seemed flat, like it was a mistake and he would come bounding out of the curtain at any time.


Wow i thought i was the only one who felt that way. i almost had a heart atack when i thouhgt Mr. Weasley, McGonagal, Nevelle, and ron had died. But when Sirius died, of course it was upseting to read harry's responce but I was expecting to be really upset. i thouhgt it happend too quickly. it was like "oh that sucks. he died. ok so anyway....."

The death of Sirius made me terribly sad... I had the feeling that it would be him after Mr. Weasley pulled through, and once Harry had the dream about Sirius, I was convinced that it would be him, even after the dream turned out to be false. In any case, I do think that it was written just right. The suddenness of it all was so true to life, if you've ever lost someone close. You just think, he can't possibly be dead. Consequently, the type of denial and grief Harry shows through the end of the book will continue for some time. However, I disagree with those who suggest that Sirius' death was pointless. JK has made it very clear through her writing that everything is of consequence. There is a reason he had to die, and we'll find out what that is before the end of the series. Perhaps death will better suit Sirius in assisting Harry against Lord Voldything.

If he HADN'T died, the Ministry (and thus the entire wizarding world) wouldn't have been alerted to the presence of Lord Voldemort and Umbridge would still be Headmistress.

You forgot to mention "what if Harry had remembered Snape was on his side"

There's also "what if JKR hadn't told us a character would die."

Originally posted by Aelurus13 (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=390760#post390760))
That is the bad thing about deaths in Harry's world, they are just to fast, no good-byes, no I'm sorrys, no I love you or I will miss or even a chance for a NOOO! Just instant death. It is not fair.

EXCUSE ME 'In Harrys world?' belive it on not it's like that in the real world too. Sorry but having lost a lot of people including my father from a yong age I find that quite offensive.

o i was so upset. I dunno why jk rowling had to kill him out of all people they're better be something in the whole plot about it coz so many poeple especially me was so in love with his character. I never thought it would be him i thought it was hagrid or mrs weasley oo im so depressed :'(

For me, all through the book I thought it would be Arthur when he was attacked, then Hagrid when he never returned, then Hermione when she got hurt during the battle, then BAM Sirius died, I did not see it coming at all, and I thought it was really well written because it was in the heat of the moment and I didn't really believe he was actually dead.

The sadest thing for me i think was when Harry finally unwrapped the gift Sirius gave him and read the note...so so sad. I really was hopeing JKR couldn't possibly be that cruel!!

It was really sad, i mean this charachter was so good to harry and had to be one of my favs. Now with him/her gone, Harry has less protection and this will create a different landscape for the sixth and seventh book.:'(

Sirius's death was just ... so ... fast. I remember myself just staring at the page for a moment, then shrugging it off, thinking that Sirius was still alive, until I realized that he was gone. Perhaps the saddest part of it was when Harry tried to call Sirius using the mirror -- that, I believe is excellent writing from Rowling. But the thing is that we just weren't given enough time for everything to really sink in. I think that it will be in the beginning of the Sixth Book that we'll really feel the sadness of Sirius's passing.

Originally posted by Max (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=391798#post391798))
But the thing is that we just weren't given enough time for everything to really sink in. I think that it will be in the beginning of the Sixth Book that we'll really feel the sadness of Sirius's passing.


Oh, I hope not. I want to say that J.K. could not possibly have made his death any harder on me, but then I also thought there was no way she could kill him. I woke up today, and that was the first thing I thought about. Harry is probably going to think about Sirius a lot next book. He'd better.
I guess my utter misery is proof of how good of a writer J.K. is. I still may never forgive her for that, for being such a good writer that I cried over the death of a fictional man.

Signature that I have to type because it's not allowed in my signature:
~And I'll see Sirius again...
I weep, for Padfoot will never return

*hem hem's in approval* (it's the new *bump* pass it along!)

Yes, it does show how good she is, I still have faith, because I know she has a really good reason for it, which will hopefully save Harry's life so Sirius' death isn't in vein.

Well yes pointless deaths are the real world. The Dramatic goodbyes I love yous and such are usually in Books, Movies, or on Tv. Thats why it devastated me so much. Sirius death was kinda real not dramatic. I was in shock and didn't start crying until DD was talking about Sirius and Harry was yelling then I could not stop. I had to stop reading to calm down before I could finish the book.
Sirius was one of my two favorite characters and he's gone. And yes there are alot of What If's there always are.

Why? what was the point why did she kill Sirius. Did she want us to really Hate Lestrange because we already did for brain damaging of Nevilles parents. What was the pupose?????

Sirus will never come back....... this is horible and i wont take it.

What if some one paints a portrate of Sirius.After all Im sure not all of the Hogwarts Headmarters and misteresses are still alive so if they paint a picture of Sirius Harry would still be able to talk to him.(please please please please) HARRY START LEARNING TO PAINT.

~Gmne

Well ... I am somehow not affected at all by Sirius's death though I really feel for Harry as he got pulled back by Remus. I expected it to be Mr Weasley, and even Hermione! I am sure though that the veil will make a comeback. It says somewhere that the happiest person doesnt become a ghost, if that is so, why couldnt Sirius come back as a ghost? I mean, Nearly Headless Nick says he didnt want to go, did he? I suppose if Sirius wants to be with Harry, he can become a ghost, right? I am sure he doesnt want to die! Well ... that's the only point i dont get. :/. He can, cant he?

I didn't cry when Sirius died, but I was very sad. He is one of my favorite characters, and I was too worried that Hagrid or Lupin were going to die that I forgot about Sirius. I do hope we meet him again, whether in person or as a shadow.

The death was hard to understand at first it was a shock to happen where it did and without much flurish. I was sad to see Sirius die and leave Harry alone again.

I think Sirius' death helped Harry Potter grow into a more mature novel than just a children's fiction..

I don't think Hagrid's death could've been as sad as Sirius' death..

Originally posted by Max (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=391798#post391798))
Sirius's death was just ... so ... fast. I remember myself just staring at the page for a moment, then shrugging it off, thinking that Sirius was still alive, until I realized that he was gone. Perhaps the saddest part of it was when Harry tried to call Sirius using the mirror -- that, I believe is excellent writing from Rowling. But the thing is that we just weren't given enough time for everything to really sink in. I think that it will be in the beginning of the Sixth Book that we'll really feel the sadness of Sirius's passing.


I totally agree, in the Sixth Book Harry will really realise what has happened. And I think the thing that made me most sad was not only the actual death, when it said he had a look of fear and surprise on his face, but on the next page --

'But part of him realised, even as he fought to break free from Lupin, that Sirius had never kept him waiting before...Sirius had risked everything, always, to see Harry, to help him...'.
Now THAT got me crying, because it was the use of...well, past tense, I guess. :'(

I think the death was just so tragic... I was a bit confused though... did he died because of Bellatrix or because of the veil??? What's behind the veil anyway??? I cried and cried.... :'( It was depressing...

Hmm, i think it was the veil. The red spell implied a stunning spell.

Im so terribly sad.

The whole point of Sirius's death is that it was preventable. If something's unpreventable, you can't learn anything from it.

My immediate "heart" reaction was "NOOOO!! He's not been around long enough! Hasn't Harry suffered enough already?" But then I thought about it from a lit-crit point of view, and I think I know why JKR did it.

All through the book, Sirius showed a distinctly reckless streak. It was perfectly understandable, but nonetheless it seemed clear to me that it would have to kill him at some point. Sirius's downfall has the makings of a classical tragedy - tragic heroes are brought down by the type of person they are. Of course, other people's mistakes were important in this particular tragedy. I just thought of Othello's dying speech, in which he describes himself as "one who loved not wisely but too well". Both Sirius and Dumbledore cared for Harry not wisely enough, but too well.

I think JKR's point with this is to increase the moral complexity of the series by showing that good intentions can lead to disaster. It makes life much more risky if lives can be threatened by understandable mistakes by good people, as well as by evil.

So I don't think JKR killed Sirius just to be sadistic. I must add that the mirror really cuts me up, though. I'm not too keen to re-read the book because I'll be thinking "If only..." all the time.

MEM might be right that through Sirius dead Harry can kill Voldemort but I have this awule feeling thats not the reason for Sirius dead in canon. The lake off feelings was strange but right if you lost someone who is that close you are angry and later much later you might be more as only sad. I think Sirius dead will play a big part in book 6 especially how Harry might react to his friends. I mean Kreacher was the one and who did always say they should be nice to him? Hermione! Thats what I think that through Sirius dead Harry might stopp with dealing things by his own. Its his anger and his sorrow what he feels what might bring it to daylight how he really feels at times. I expect that a later dead in this serie will bring Harry to that point to want kill Voldemort with all of his heart.

I suspect that death sadly will be ron or dumbledore. I can see him going wild with them two especially. Anyway thats another thread.

The reason the death is so ironic has to be for a reason. Re-reading it was painful, because you could see all the times when his death could have been avoided.

But don't forget, Lily and James are dead. How could those teenages in Snape's memory have an idea what would happen? How could Lily know that she would marry James, that her son would defeat Voldemort? How would James know his best friend would suffer for his traitor friend that caused his death? How would James know he would have a son with Lily yet to be killed not long after it? How would James know Lupin would live to see all his friends turn evil or die? How would Lupin know he would be left to guide and reassure James' son?

Do you get what I mean? You don't know what the outcome out of this will be, as the motto is in Philosophy, evil brings the good out in another person. Sirius died fighting, he wanted to fight, hence the risk he took. His death was noble, yet avoidable. But Harry can learn from these lessons, he can come to terms with it and learn from his mistakes. It may cause the downfall of Voldemort this way.

I am devestated by Sirius's death! Ive been really depressed since i finished on sunday- I never thought fiction could affect me like this! I know that is mainly because he was my fave character but it is also because it just seemed so thouroughly unncescarry and unfair!

He had a terrible life - a family he hated, loosing his best freinds, locked up for years, everyone thinking he is a murderer; harry was really the only good thing in his life and he representd to harry the chance of happiness so why, why did it have to be him?

I did think it was all written really well though, thats why it was so moving. i never suspected it would be Sirius to die before i started reading but once id got to about chap 6 i started to suspect it would b him and from then on i read with a sense of dread. To begin with i was really pleased to be getting all this new information about sirius's character but then i wondered why it was all being crammed in at the beggining of this book, as though there would not be another chance! It was built up really well, the emphasis on his "rashness", his frustration and being stuck in the house, his belief that "some things are worth dying for" and Harry's sense of foreboding as he left the house at xmas.

The fact that it wasnt a complete shock did not make it any easier to read though and Harry's reaction was simply heartbreaking, the amount he was suffering and grieving seemed almost unbearable, how much more is he going to have to take?

For me the future books will be lacking something without Sirius, I found him the most intresting character and thought that he had so much more potential within the series. i only hope that there i a very good reason why it had ot be him.

We don't know what spell Bella used. It wasn't a Stunner. Sirius ducked the Stunner. We never get an impression of the spell's color or incantation. But I got the impression that he died as soon as it hit him. It wasn't the veil. It was the spell. I thought the screaming match between Bella and Harry actually turned out to be hilarious. She was in total denial and now that she was facing somebody she couldn't beat and had to face the wrath of her master, she was suddenly terrified and had to get away from Dumbledore. Well ya know hon, if you'd quit fighting with your cousin and just run for it you might have made it.

Also, she may have been taunting Harry about the weakness of his unforgivable, but remember what Bartemius said in Book 4 usually those spells require magic as well as hatred and he figured the entire fourth year class could stand pointing their wands at him and yelling Avada Kedavra and he wouldn't get so much as a nosebleed. By that standard Harry's yelling "Crucio!" should have had no effect at all. But it produced a spell. It knocked Bella over (and I think she screamed once). She popped right back up, but I think what happened was he let a second of utter hatred get into his spell and this floored her and hurt, but only for a second. When he quit focusing on his hatred she popped back up. Her taunt, like Voldemort's seemed to be more bravado or bluff and less true.

And I think there was a reason that it had to be Sirius. It was Harry's state of love in agony that drove Voldemort out. If he hadn't had the fresh loss, he might have struck back in anger and thus been easier to control for a longer period of time. He might even have been the instrument of Dumbledore's death.

I'm just thinking. If this has been mentioned already, ignore me completely, I haven't read every single post. But remember when Luna said she had spoken to her mother behind the veil? What if she was an Auror or some person who was killed behind the veil by Voldemort, and that they tried to get the prophecy that time? And maybe Sirius can speak to Harry spirit wise?

Sirius' death left me strangely unaffected. It's the way he died that bugged me- it was too vague. I mean... falling into some veil? what is it? is he coming back? what is the meaning of it? I was too confused to mourn.

Obviously we will learn more about the archway in book 6/7 but I'm personally not very curious about the thing.

Originally posted by Inkwolf (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=387840#post387840))
I am sorry that we won't get to see any sort of closure or resolution to the Snape/Sirius feud. I was hoping they'd work it out.


Yes! Definitely. I was so looking forward to it :(

I started crying whenever Sirius got hit by the spell and didn't stop crying until sometime after Harry caught up with Bellatrix_-_ All this time I had thought it was Hagrid because I had always thought he was Harry's biggest fan but when I found out it was Sirius it donned on me how come I didn't think about him before because after I read OotP I sat there and said to myself, Sirius truly was Harry's biggest fan. He died suddenly, but it didn't really hit me until Lupin said he was;_;

you know, before I read the book I thought to myself "Anyone can die but Sirius" and guess who dies. That's horrible! He was my fav.

Can someone explain this to me; what is the point of having another significant adult for Harry, someone caring like a father and this character has to die even before his own story is not finish? i.e his feud with Snape, his innocence about the 13 killed and more. What does it had to the plot beside anger? I think there is enough anger without this.

thanks

What bothers me about Sirius' death is that there is just SO much potential in his storyline. There's too much about him that needed to be resolved: his reputation being cleared, the truth coming out about the whole Azkaban thing, his feud with Snape, the mysterious past of the Marauders, his family issues, I could go on. I don't understand why JK would pass up this wonderful opportunity to expand on such a rich storyline -- and then there's the fact that Sirius's character just adds so much to the books in general. It left me confused and disturbed rather than sad, because I've always thought that Sirius would play an important part till the very end and beyond, because there's so much room to expand on his character. Of course, now that I've had the chance to re-read and think about it a little, the whole thing is finally sinking in and it's definitely extremely depressing. Even worse is the lack of closure. We don't know exactly how he died, where he went, what happened when he fell through the veil, nothing. I would guess that Bellatrix blasted him through the veil, but why he actually died is beyond me. Plus, his death served no purpose, other than to push Harry over the edge. If Sirius ever were to die in the series, I would have wanted it to be at the end, after a good long career in the fight against Voldemort, after everything had been cleared up, and with plenty of conclusive closure. The way it was written definitely made an impact, but it was so vaguely ambiguous that I, like Harry, was sure that he hadn't actually died until Dumbledore himself said so.

It seemed so pointless to me. I remember thinking to myself before I started reading it that whoever the "important" character that snuffs it in this book is, JK would not kill them unless she had a good reason. Unfortunately, I still can't see her reason. I'm not complaining about the book--I thought the death scene was written beautifully, and the scenes after with Harry's rage--but as of now I can't imagine what purpose his death served in the grand scheme of things. And I also worry about how much angrier Harry will be in Book 6. Think about how he was in this book, and then multiply that by a thousand. He was disturbed over the death of an acquaintance, at the hands of Voldemort: and then to see someone he loves, the closest thing he has to a parent, killed by Voldemort's supporter, well...he has a lot on his mind. I just feel so bad for the kid. He lost both his parents and now one of his closest friends, a mixture between a father and a brother (and I don't mind admitting that when I read that sentence in the book, I felt a little choky), and now he has absolutely no one left to look to. Sure, he has the Weasley family and his best friends, but no one like Sirius who was so close to his parents and who cared about him the way his father would.

I'm guessing that this is the process of isolating Harry, of making him rely only on himself in the fight against Voldemort. And I'm pretty sure that one by one, the people he cares most about will continue to get taken away from him, until he is able to face Voldemort alone and without any kind of help whatsoever. Not that I think all the major characters will die (that would be just stupid) but it feels as if Harry will continue to lose people he loves in the same brutal way, until he can truly stand apart from everyone else and realize his fate in becoming the murderer. Poor kid.

It still doesn't make sense to me. I keep hoping that JK will clear up why she had to kill of Sirius in the future books, and what purpose his death served. Guess we'll see.

Earendil, I had the same thoughts as well and did not come up with a plausible explanation. Your right, there was so much resolving to do with Sirius you'd think at least one thing would be resolved. Sadly, they did get resolved: by death :

I think that if we were to follow the rich storyline which Sirius would be all to capable to accomplish, it would be really really interesting to read and would carry a great deal of pages in the book. THAT I think is the problem. If we kept getting more involved with Sirius, he'd take away the point of the story, from Harry, to him. Sirius is one of the most colorful and enigmatic characters from the story and could easily threaten to take the full light away from Harry because of his likeable personality. I think she saw Sirius as a literary danger to Harry, so decided to eliminate him.

I don't know if you've heard of this, but when Shakespeare wrote Romeo and Juliet, he found that Mercutio, being the comic relief person who had a great personality, was taking away the limelight away from the real main characters, so eliminated him. I think that it may have been so for Sirius, because I certainly was beginning to like him much more than Harry to tell you the truth.

Naturally, his death will cause some sort of effect that will weave itself in the story, like you said. Such as having Harry not only lose his parents, but his godfather and the emotional effects that has on him and the hate it generates which may lead to him actually getting the nerve or hate to kill someone. As to the real motive, I don't know, nor does anyone else for sure, but I think the reason he was killed may have been because of what was stated above. Likely, yet not, guess we'll see though!

Not even going to waste my time reading all five pages of posts about this....all I know is I am mad.

here here, but I'm sure she'll give the explaination and the purpose behind it in either book 6 or 7. At least I hope.

Sirius had to have been the best character in the series...well at least for me. I liked him more than Harry Potter. I just finished the book 20 minutes ago and I cried like a baby at that scene. Although I already had a dreadful feeling that he was the one who was going to die, I still cried. I know I'll still be sad every time I see his name. Stupid I know, but I liked he that much. He left such impact on me in the third book. I love his loyalty and how brave he was. Well I'm glad she killed him off quick and it wasn't anything long and drawn out. I just know that every time harry spoke after that I was sad all over again. His death, although sad to say, was good becuase, again, it was quick and all over in seconds.

Originally posted by I heart Sirius (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=391739#post391739))
The sadest thing for me i think was when Harry finally unwrapped the gift Sirius gave him and read the note...so so sad. I really was hopeing JKR couldn't possibly be that cruel!!
At least Luna gave Harry an information that he might be able to contact Black behing the veil...
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Sorry but no post helps me to cool down.:angry:

Matt-
I agree with you, mate. I was all about Harry and Sirius living together at the end...Sirius talking and talking about his days with James so that Harry would begin to really know is father....but alas, it was not to be.

I'm with Tarawyn, though. It really didn't sink in until the second time I read it. I immediately went back and re read the battle and the end of the book after I finished, because JKR is such a genius about pulling you into a scene...that chapter seemed so fast and intense. I had to re read it in order to take it all in. Then, the implications of the death began to hit me.

I think that either there will be some way to speak through the veil to Sirius or that a way will come up to bring Sirius out of the veil.

I still can't seem to get over the death of Sirius. He was my favorite outside of the trio. There was something about him I can't quite put my finger on. It happened so fast that it didn't really sink in. Then when Lupin said "There's nothing you can do, Harry...nothing...He's gone," I started to realize what had happened...denial's always the first step, I didn't want to believe it. So much was going on, and right in the middle of it, Sirius leaves us. Seeing how Lupin didn't really have time to think about what happened because he still had to get Harry out was really hard, too ("'Let's-let's find the others. Where are they all, Neville'. Lupin turned away from the archway as he spoke. it sounded as though every word was causing him pain.") It was tough reading Harry's grieving, the anger, the memories, etc. I was crying the whole time, and was so depressed the next day (still a little down).
I was also a bit angry. How could J.K.R. kill him, hasn't Harry suffered enough? But then I thought about what Harry's gonna have to do ("neither can live while the other survives"), Voldemort is taking everything that Harry loves away. I imagine you can't just say the words "Avada Kedavra"...you have to mean it, feel it. Just remember, Rowling said this death (Sirius) is the beginning of the deaths, unfortunately. I've went on long enough...I needed to get some of it out...Man, I loved Sirius...

Originally posted by Snidget (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=394226#post394226))
I know I'll still be sad every time I see his name. Stupid I know, but I liked he that much. He left such impact on me in the third book. I love his loyalty and how brave he was.

I love PoA because Sirius (and Lupin) was introduced in this book. His bravery and his quick temper (which I am guilty of myself) is what I love about him...his loyalty, too.
As for feeling sad everytime you see his name being stupid...I say rubbish...I feel the same way. The satellite radio I have in my truck is called Sirius. Everytime I turn it on, SIRIUS flashes across the face of my stereo...and I get a little depressed.

I had to re-read it to make sure I got it right, and I kept thinking "No, he can't be dead!". Then the bit with the mirror and when Harry was talking to Nearly Headless Nick about ghosts made me even sadder. :'( And angry. Now that I think about it, I would have much rather have had Hagrid die. I don't like Hagrid that much, he's just a bit too...yeah. I don't know. :angry:

Sirius's death was excellently done- it's just like real life. It was in the heat of battle- and there was no time to stop and grieve, you just had to carry on and fight like everyone did. There were a lot of WHAT IF's!!! but that's what we all do when something bad happens- and often in life, people die with their lives unfulified, such was Sirius's death. He died from the veil, NOT the spell. The spell was red, hit him and knocked him backwards. He realised he was going back through the veil, and became scared- it's the gateway to the world of the dead, or the afterlife or whatever it is- it's a mystery that's why it is in the D.O.M........ Dumbledore said it himself- the room was called "the death chamber" it's use I don't know but it was clearly the veil that killed him. We all feel bitter and angry, and that's how we should feel- it would be **** if it was dramatic and painfully done with last words, it would'nt be real at all........ I grieved a lot, it was that painful.....

I think it woulda been cool if he said something short like..."D@mn...." or "Son of a b!tch..."

Originally posted by Puffskein (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=392984#post392984))
All through the book, Sirius showed a distinctly reckless streak. It was perfectly understandable, but nonetheless it seemed clear to me that it would have to kill him at some point. Sirius's downfall has the makings of a classical tragedy - tragic heroes are brought down by the type of person they are. Of course, other people's mistakes were important in this particular tragedy.


I've just had another thought. While Sirius had an impulsive personality in any case, it's possible that his reckless streak was made worse by the monstrous injustice he received. If that :censored: Wormtail hadn't framed him and that :censored: Crouch hadn't sent him to Azkaban without trial, he would have been able to be active in the Order. He'd still have hated being in the house but at least he might have been less restless. He had a tragic life and a tragic flaw.

It makes me sad that some people are blaming Sirius's death entirely on himself and seeing him as just a reckless fool. If JKR wanted us to remember him that way, he'd have died trying to fly his motorbike to Venus or something.

The only "what if" I have is... "What if he didn't fall through the veil"... I think it's ironic that he died just because he fell through that veil...

I cried my eyes out when Sirius died and I still get upset at the thought that he's gone.
I knew that there was to be a death but I thought it would be Dumbledore, Mrs Weasley or Hagrid. I never thought it would be Sirius, it seemed like he had still so much more to give. I always pictured Harry and Sirius living together in the end. That's why it was so hard to take that he's dead.
He was my favorite character and now he's gone.

Originally posted by Mad-I Moody (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=387875#post387875))
I hope he can, somehow, communicate with Sirius beyond the veil. The books won't be the same without him.


I agree with this. Harry's talks with Sirius throughout books 4 and 5, in a way have sustained Harry when nothing else could. I believe Harry will be able to talk to Sirius through the veil, but it might become similar to his use of the Mirror of Erised to look at his parents....dwelling on what he cannot have.

It hurts for me to think about this. It hurt me when Sirius died like it hurt Harry. Like so many of you, Sirius has always been my favorite character, and a part of me grew to love him even though he was a fictional character. I never imagined the power OotP would have, I never thought a fictional character could effect me so much. Yet I couldn't sleep the night I finished the book, I was tossing and turning, mourning the loss of Sirius, and begging that Harry would somehow be able to talk to him.

All I have to say i sLong live Stubby Boardman!!! he'll live on in our hearts!


ok, well, that isn't all I have to say, but , well, it kind of hit me as a duh, moment. everythignwas leading up to it..and I have to admit, I was yelling at Harry when he did't go and get the package from sirius...you know...the mirror...

After the first read, when you already know that he dies, it makes it much sadder when you read it through again. Honestly, when I was re-reading the part when he's decorating the house at Christmas and singing "God Rest Ye Merry Hippogriffs" I felt quite depressed.

I definitely wasn't expecting Sirius to die, so I could hardly believe it. I was preparing myself for Hagrid or Mrs. Weasley to die: Sirius was actually at the bottom of my list of most likely important characters. It just didn't make sense to me for her to kill him off so relatively early in the series, when he had only been introduce two books ago and had plenty of interesting plotlines ahead of him. So the shock kind of lasted me through the rest of the book, so I wasn't too upset about it. Until I read it again, and....yeah. Definitely quite depressing.