Way Ahead for Deathly Hallows Movie(s) [Archive] - Page 10

meesha1971

December 10th, 2009, 2:46 am

Wow, a lot has happened in the past few days. Why is it that I always have internet issues whenever there is big news on the HP front? :lol:

I did get to see the sneak peak. It was pretty good, but it does make me wonder. The added dancing with Harry and Hermione in the tent seems very strange. It's rather stiff and awkward, but they both have these huge smiles like they're really happy so it doesn't make any sense because that's supposed to be when Ron leaves. They should both be hurt, miserable and completely ignoring each other there. Maybe it will work better in context with the scene it's in, but at the moment, I think that was a bad idea.

Godric's Hollow looks just awful to me as well. Dan looks really awkward and stiff and I didn't get any sense of emotion from him there at all. But that's pretty much what I expected if they didn't use polyjuice for that scene - and the addition of all those wanted posters showing Harry as "Undesirable #1" only makes Harry and Hermione look like bigger idiots for going out in public - particularly to Godric's Hollow - without some kind of disguise. Hopefully, they will at least use the Invisibility cloak, but it doesn't look like it from that footage. That is now my most dreaded scene for DH because it looks like they really screwed it up. I think the audience will be too focused on the possibility of impending attack because they were stupid and didn't use disguises to get the impact that scene should have.

The rest of what I've seen looks pretty good though. The chase scenes look very intense and I love the shot of Ron splinched with Hermione casting protection spells with his blood on her hands. I like the idea of having Ollivander discuss the rumors of the Hallows with Harry - presuming that will be in part 2 of course. With Xenophilius telling them about the Hallows in part 1, I think that would be a great way to remind the audience of the Hallows in part 2.

I read through the spoilers - lots of stuff there. I'm taking it with a grain of salt for the moment though. DH is the end and I expect there will be a lot of so called "insiders" posting spoilers just like there were for the book back in 2007. They went all out for the last book - even using photoshop to create very real looking fake images of the book to post as "proof" - so I won't be surprised if we see people doing similar things for the last two movies. The guy might be legit, but he could also be someone who got hold of the sneak peak early and pieced all that together from that and comments made in interviews and possibly even speculation from forums. Much of what he posted is very similar to ideas we've discussed here. Too early to tell I think.

The information he's giving is interesting though. Some of it sounds really great. The description of the Seven Potters sounds very good and the final battle sounds epic. I love the description of the locket Horcrux images as smoky and grey - that scene should be evil and frightening so I hope that is accurate. And it would be very easy for them to create the illusion of nudity from the head and shoulders if the bodies are smoky and not fully formed.

I like the idea of them showing Ron and Hermione going to the Chamber and having their kiss occur there - we discussed that here some time ago. I'm wary of the description of Hermione destroying the cup though - it sounds too easy for them to make that all about how powerful Hermione is by making her experience similar to Ron's and making it appear less difficult for her to overcome. It could work very well and I do like the description - I'm just a bit wary because Kloves has a tendency to glorify Hermione.

I like the idea of working Dobby into other scenes - though I'm not too sure about them having Dobby show up while they're camping. I think that would take away from the sense of isolation that should be present there. They need to be totally cut off from the rest of the world in those scenes - no radio, no papers, no contact with anyone. I don't think those scenes will work very well if they are not isolated. I think the wedding would be a good place for them to include Dobby and they could probably work him into Grimmauld Place somehow as well. I'm not too sure how that would work, but showing Dobby and Kreacher together would put emphasis on how different they are and give more impact to the change in Kreacher I think. And I do like that the possibility of part 1 ending with Dobby's burial is still an option. I'm fine with the cliffhanger ending, but Dobby's burial was always my first choice.

I also like the idea of having Ginny be the one to take Harry to find the diadem. We discussed that as a possibility here as well. I never considered that they might replace Ron and Hermione with Ginny for the Fiendfyre scene, but I think that could work. Ron and Hermione didn't really do anything in that particular scene that Ginny could not do so that doesn't change the story. And it gives them a chance to do more with Harry and Ginny since they dropped the ball so badly with that in HBP.

Some of it sounds pretty bad though. The description of the scene where Harry and Hermione are dancing that we saw in the sneak peak - that just doesn't make any sense to me and it doesn't fit within the context of the story at that point or their characters, IMO. I just can't see Harry doing that when he is hurt and angry himself. Nor can I see Hermione going along with it - I think she would be more likely to just tell Harry to get out of her face and leave her alone. This sounds like another "waitress" scene to me. I don't like the implication that Harry and Ginny's kiss will be similar to HBP either - that was so terrible. I'm really hoping they do much better for DH.

I hate the description of the final confrontation between Harry and Voldemort. That just sounds awful. I really hope they don't do that. I think the fact that Harry was not a match for Voldemort in terms of his power and skill and could not have defeated him without the advantages he had is significant to the story.

That is true when Harry sees into Voldemort's mind when he finds out the Harry is searching for horcruxes after the Gringott's heist they could show some quick flashes of Voldemort placing all his horcruxes originally and and use Dilliane for that. It would be really quick flashes.

A young Voldemort wouldn't be in any of Snape's memories? I am quite certain he is a bit older then Snape, so i couldn't imagine that working, but who knows what they would do.

Voldemort was born in 1927-1928 and Snape was born in 1960 so Voldemort is quite a bit older than Snape. Snape wouldn't have any memories of Voldemort as a teenager because Voldemort would have been around 33 or 34 when Snape was born. Hagrid and McGonagall would - they were both students at Hogwarts during the same time frame as Tom Riddle. But I can't see either of them showing Harry memories or reminiscing about teenage Voldemort. Slughorn would as well because he taught Riddle, but he served that purpose in HBP and I can't see them repeating that for DH.

It is possible that they might try to work in the memories significant to the Horcruxes to explain them better. They could do that through Harry's visions of Voldemort's thoughts and make it part of the trio's search for the Horcruxes. They could also use photo's or newspaper clippings for that as well with the trio finding information about Riddle during their search. Riddle was fairly well known as a student and expected to get a job in the Ministry when he finished Hogwarts so it wouldn't be out of the realm of possibilty for there to be some old articles about him as a teenager in the Daily Prophet. That might even be something they find at Grimmauld Place when they look in Regulus' room - he did have a collage of newspaper clippings about Voldemort on the wall in his room.

Another possibility is that they will work that in to explain the diadem and Harry will see that when Voldemort thinks about all the Horcruxes after finding out about the cup being stolen. Riddle did find out about the diadem from the Gray Lady while he was a student and apparently turned it into a Horcrux when he was around 18 or so. They could use Frank Dillane for a scene with the Gray Lady or even a memory of him retrieving the diadem from the forest in Albania.

decarus

December 10th, 2009, 3:00 am

Godric's Hollow looks just awful to me as well. Dan looks really awkward and stiff and I didn't get any sense of emotion from him there at all. But that's pretty much what I expected if they didn't use polyjuice for that scene - and the addition of all those wanted posters showing Harry as "Undesirable #1" only makes Harry and Hermione look like bigger idiots for going out in public - particularly to Godric's Hollow - without some kind of disguise. Hopefully, they will at least use the Invisibility cloak, but it doesn't look like it from that footage. That is now my most dreaded scene for DH because it looks like they really screwed it up. I think the audience will be too focused on the possibility of impending attack because they were stupid and didn't use disguises to get the impact that scene should have.

I don't think the footage with the Undesirable No. 1 posters is at Godric's hollow because there are three people there. Ron isn't there when they go to Godric's hollow.

phoenix88

December 10th, 2009, 3:29 am

[QUOTE=meesha1971;5466732] .

I hate the description of the final confrontation between Harry and Voldemort. That just sounds awful. I really hope they don't do that. I think the fact that Harry was not a match for Voldemort in terms of his power and skill and could not have defeated him without the advantages he had is significant to the story.

As much as the confrontation read well, cinematically I was actually hoping they would spice up the final duel more so we get more than one spell. I normally prefer the producers to stick to the book, but this is one instance where I think they needed more embellishment. At least from a movie perspective, the final duel has to look more epic than the one in GoF because Harry should be a better wizard by now. So, I was glad that at least according to this "source", it sounds like they made the duel longer, particularly for the non reading audience. For those who haven't read the spoiler here it is:

-I don't know if fans will like it because it's a much longer fight. The Great Hall is completely smashed and there is no ceiling-just ruins. We see all the towers surrounding them and the dark red sun is rising behind the gigantic black and grey clouds (because of the fire and the ashes and the storm). It's going to be epic. Harry and Voldemort exchange more spells. They collide or are blocked from protective spheres. The final moment is so intense that everyone goes away because of how fierce the confrontation is. I think you'll love it. But maybe not. Imagine the Great Hall set without the tables, without the ceiling, without half its walls and all its windows completely smashed. All the ruins are on the floor and we see the deep red/black-grey cloudy sky over Voldemort and Harry and all the half destroyed towers and bridges surrounding them. I think it's a great improvement.

meesha1971

December 10th, 2009, 3:30 am

I don't think the footage with the Undesirable No. 1 posters is at Godric's hollow because there are three people there. Ron isn't there when they go to Godric's hollow.

It's not. That wasn't what I meant. The footage showing the posters - quite a few posters actually - indicates that they will be putting a great deal of emphasis on Harry being "Undesirable #1" and that he is wanted by the Ministry - under the control of Voldemort and the Death Eaters. That is what will make Harry and Hermione look like idiots for going out in public without some kind of disguise - particularly to Godric's Hollow because it's obvious that Voldemort would definitely lay a trap for Harry there because of the connection to his parents.

The implication that there might also be wanted posters for Ron and Hermione would only add to that because that would mean their faces would be known and recognized as well as Harry's. For Harry and Hermione to go anywhere in public without disguising themselves is beyond reckless - it would be idiotic because they will know that there are wanted posters all over the place at that point in the story. They also know that Voldemort is very likely going to lay a trap at Godric's Hollow - that was Hermione's entire reason for not wanting to go. I think this scene will make them look very stupid because they will be deliberately walking into a trap knowing full well that they can be recognized. They might as well paint targets on their backs and jump up and down screaming "Come and get us! We're right here in plain sight!"

JR637

December 10th, 2009, 3:36 am

I know one of the Spoilers says dream_silently 1 day ago
I don't want to disappoint you, Thiego, but it's similar to the HBP kiss. It lasts a little longer but that's it. Though,they kiss properly in Part 2's finale.

Man I hope this is true! I was so disappointed with the HBP kiss so I am really pulling for more kissing and more passion!!

-JR

meesha1971

December 10th, 2009, 3:40 am

As much as the confrontation read well, cinematically I was actually hoping they would spice up the final duel more so we get more than one spell. I normally prefer the producers to stick to the book, but this is one instance where I think they needed more embellishment. At least from a movie perspective, the final duel has to look more epic than the one in GoF because Harry should be a better wizard by now. So, I was glad that at least according to this "source", it sounds like they made the duel longer, particularly for the non reading audience. For those who haven't read the spoiler here it is:

-I don't know if fans will like it because it's a much longer fight. The Great Hall is completely smashed and there is no ceiling-just ruins. We see all the towers surrounding them and the dark red sun is rising behind the gigantic black and grey clouds (because of the fire and the ashes and the storm). It's going to be epic. Harry and Voldemort exchange more spells. They collide or are blocked from protective spheres. The final moment is so intense that everyone goes away because of how fierce the confrontation is. I think you'll love it. But maybe not. Imagine the Great Hall set without the tables, without the ceiling, without half its walls and all its windows completely smashed. All the ruins are on the floor and we see the deep red/black-grey cloudy sky over Voldemort and Harry and all the half destroyed towers and bridges surrounding them. I think it's a great improvement.

Harry is still a 17 year old boy who didn't even attend his final year of school. Voldemort is a fully trained adult wizard who not only completed school, but also spent years studying and practicing the Dark Arts. There's just no way for them to present that as a believable scenario because there is no way that Harry could ever be a match for Voldemort under those conditions. McGonagall, Kingsley, and Slughorn were no match for him as a group - and they are all three more powerful and more skilled than Harry because they had more education and more experience.

It doesn't matter how great something looks if it is not believable, IMO. Pretty pictures and cool special effects won't compensate for an unbelievable scenario being presented. The audience won't be impressed because they won't believe it. It's like those old westerns where the hero loads his six-shooter and then kills 20 people without reloading. People are not impressed by things like that - they laugh at how ridiculous it is.

I think it would be more cinematic the way it was described in the book. The mounting tension, wondering if Harry could possibly survive again - and how he would do it, the two of them circling each other with taunts. That would be an epic, dramatic scene, IMO. Harry the super wizard is not epic or dramatic - it's just unbelievable, IMO.

jp5

December 10th, 2009, 4:06 am

I've just seen Blood Diamond and the cinematography is just amazing and breathtaking. It also makes a lot of sense for Eduardo to be the DP in DH.

The camping/traveling scenes should be just beautiful, and the chases, together with the action/battle scenes would be just so action packed and tense!

It was a great decission!

katana

December 10th, 2009, 4:16 am

MasterOfDeath

December 10th, 2009, 4:28 am

meesha1971

December 10th, 2009, 5:00 am

Meesha, maybe the scene will imply that Harry has a chance in the duel against Voldemort because the Elder Wand isn't working properly against him....That would lead nicely into Harry taunting Voldemort about how he isn't truly the master of that wand. So maybe it will be visually epic and stunning but it won't make Harry this superhero, it will be because Harry has united all Hallows and is now master of death.

Then how would they explain Voldemort being able to use the wand at all? How would they explain him being able to use the wand to kill Harry before Kings Cross? The Elder wand worked for Voldemort as well as his phoenix wand. The wand didn't give him greater power as it would have if he'd truly won it, but it did work and they'll have to show him using it in other scenes - like when he finds out the cup was stolen and kills everyone around him who heard about it.

That would only set up a contradiction and be confusing, IMO. Being the master of the Elder wand didn't give Harry additional knowledge or skill. And it only makes him more powerful if he's the one using the wand. Even with the Elder wand not working properly for him, Voldemort would still wipe the floor with Harry in a proper duel because he had superior knowledge and skill and was more powerful. He could use the wand to kill Harry so, logically, he could also defeat Harry in a proper duel. That's why Harry went with Expelliarmus - he knew that was his only chance, IMO. There's just no way for them to make that a believable scenario, IMO.

yoshi2542

December 10th, 2009, 11:22 am

It's not. That wasn't what I meant. The footage showing the posters - quite a few posters actually - indicates that they will be putting a great deal of emphasis on Harry being "Undesirable #1" and that he is wanted by the Ministry - under the control of Voldemort and the Death Eaters. That is what will make Harry and Hermione look like idiots for going out in public without some kind of disguise - particularly to Godric's Hollow because it's obvious that Voldemort would definitely lay a trap for Harry there because of the connection to his parents.

The book already had Harry and Hermione acting like morons at Godric's Hollow, just going there in the first place was stupid considering everything. Dropping the polyjuice might make them seem just a little bit stupider, but it will make the sight of Harry at the graves a thousand times better. Harry and Hermione are only 17, I hardly think a bit of recklessness of Harry's part is something to get het up about. Didn't Dumbledore mention to Harry that he worried he thought too much with his heart and not enough with his head? Harry being reckless is as canon as it gets.

lcbaseball22

December 10th, 2009, 11:54 am

I did get to see the sneak peak. It was pretty good, but it does make me wonder. The added dancing with Harry and Hermione in the tent seems very strange. It's rather stiff and awkward, but they both have these huge smiles like they're really happy so it doesn't make any sense because that's supposed to be when Ron leaves. They should both be hurt, miserable and completely ignoring each other there. Maybe it will work better in context with the scene it's in, but at the moment, I think that was a bad idea.

Yes, this does seem kinda odd but I also am going to wait to find out more before I really judge it...

Godric's Hollow looks just awful to me as well. Dan looks really awkward and stiff and I didn't get any sense of emotion from him there at all. But that's pretty much what I expected if they didn't use polyjuice for that scene - and the addition of all those wanted posters showing Harry as "Undesirable #1" only makes Harry and Hermione look like bigger idiots for going out in public - particularly to Godric's Hollow - without some kind of disguise. Hopefully, they will at least use the Invisibility cloak, but it doesn't look like it from that footage. That is now my most dreaded scene for DH because it looks like they really screwed it up. I think the audience will be too focused on the possibility of impending attack because they were stupid and didn't use disguises to get the impact that scene should have.

We've seen what...all of like 2 seconds of that scene? I don't see how you have any grounds to determine whether there is emotion there or not :shrug:

Personally I'm glad they will not be Polyjuiced as the emotion should be a lot more impactful actually seeing who we've all come to think of as Harry and Hermione...but I do wish they'd use the cloak at least. Who knows, maybe they do. Again, can't really tell from a few seconds worth and I imagine this would be added in later anyways.

The information he's giving is interesting though. Some of it sounds really great. The description of the Seven Potters sounds very good and the final battle sounds epic. I love the description of the locket Horcrux images as smoky and grey - that scene should be evil and frightening so I hope that is accurate. And it would be very easy for them to create the illusion of nudity from the head and shoulders if the bodies are smoky and not fully formed.

:agree:

I like the idea of them showing Ron and Hermione going to the Chamber and having their kiss occur there - we discussed that here some time ago. I'm wary of the description of Hermione destroying the cup though - it sounds too easy for them to make that all about how powerful Hermione is by making her experience similar to Ron's and making it appear less difficult for her to overcome. It could work very well and I do like the description - I'm just a bit wary because Kloves has a tendency to glorify Hermione.

I don't have very strong feelings towards this. I really wish they'd just keep the kiss as in the book though. I liked Harry's "Oi! We're in the middle of a war" comment or whatever it was. :lol: Unfortunately we'll lose that now I guess. Plus the atmosphere will be completely different. We won't feel any sense of danger around them when they are down in deserted chamber.

I like the idea of working Dobby into other scenes - though I'm not too sure about them having Dobby show up while they're camping. I think that would take away from the sense of isolation that should be present there. They need to be totally cut off from the rest of the world in those scenes - no radio, no papers, no contact with anyone. I don't think those scenes will work very well if they are not isolated. I think the wedding would be a good place for them to include Dobby and they could probably work him into Grimmauld Place somehow as well. I'm not too sure how that would work, but showing Dobby and Kreacher together would put emphasis on how different they are and give more impact to the change in Kreacher I think. And I do like that the possibility of part 1 ending with Dobby's burial is still an option. I'm fine with the cliffhanger ending, but Dobby's burial was always my first choice.

Yeah, I don't know about the apparent places they've thrown him in either. And I do hope Dobby's death is still a strong possibility for the location of the split and that the filmmakers come to their senses and realize this would allow for the most balance between the two parts as well as a more substantial resolution to part 1 :tu:

I also like the idea of having Ginny be the one to take Harry to find the diadem. We discussed that as a possibility here as well. I never considered that they might replace Ron and Hermione with Ginny for the Fiendfyre scene, but I think that could work. Ron and Hermione didn't really do anything in that particular scene that Ginny could not do so that doesn't change the story. And it gives them a chance to do more with Harry and Ginny since they dropped the ball so badly with that in HBP.

Yeah, I think so too. At first I was like WHAT?!...but yeah Ron and Hermione aren't essential for this scene really and it should work just fine (or better) with Ginny and Harry against Malfoy and his goons :p

I don't like the implication that Harry and Ginny's kiss will be similar to HBP either - that was so terrible. I'm really hoping they do much better for DH.

Yeah, if this dream_silently is to be believed the it sounds like they've gone and screwed up the "B-day kiss" too :grumble: Well at least they are supposed to have a proper passionate kiss added at the end. This is something I felt the book was missing anyways. In the book the battle ended and then he went off to talk to Dumbledore. I dunno, you'd think the first thing he'd do is run to his girl... :lol: :p

I hate the description of the final confrontation between Harry and Voldemort. That just sounds awful. I really hope they don't do that. I think the fact that Harry was not a match for Voldemort in terms of his power and skill and could not have defeated him without the advantages he had is significant to the story.

Oh I know, same here. :grumble:

I really don't like this for reasons I've stated before and also that which you've expanded on I see a few posts down I see. This is probably the primary reason I kinda hope dream_silently is a fake, despite like everything else sounding awesome... :whistle:

It is possible that they might try to work in the memories significant to the Horcruxes to explain them better. They could do that through Harry's visions of Voldemort's thoughts and make it part of the trio's search for the Horcruxes. They could also use photo's or newspaper clippings for that as well with the trio finding information about Riddle during their search. Riddle was fairly well known as a student and expected to get a job in the Ministry when he finished Hogwarts so it wouldn't be out of the realm of possibilty for there to be some old articles about him as a teenager in the Daily Prophet. That might even be something they find at Grimmauld Place when they look in Regulus' room - he did have a collage of newspaper clippings about Voldemort on the wall in his room.

Another possibility is that they will work that in to explain the diadem and Harry will see that when Voldemort thinks about all the Horcruxes after finding out about the cup being stolen. Riddle did find out about the diadem from the Gray Lady while he was a student and apparently turned it into a Horcrux when he was around 18 or so. They could use Frank Dillane for a scene with the Gray Lady or even a memory of him retrieving the diadem from the forest in Albania.

Hmm, all interesting possibilities :tu:

We'll just have to wait until we know more though... :shrug: Maybe Frank Dillane will reveal a bit in an interview here sometime.

BTW, I apologize if this post is full of typo's and such... :whistle: It's really late (or early depending how you look at it) and I'm not in the mood to go through my usual obsessive and perfectionistic proofreading and editing routine :lol: :p

Pearl_Took

December 10th, 2009, 1:52 pm

Godric's Hollow looks just awful to me as well. Dan looks really awkward and stiff and I didn't get any sense of emotion from him there at all.

I haven't watched the clip, I confess, but I hope that Dan's acting will be up to the mark. :cool: He's got it in him. :) (Based on Equus and My Boy Jack.)

I would argue that using other actors to convey Polyjuice would make the scene even more wooden and lacking in emotion. :whistle:

I think the audience will be too focused on the possibility of impending attack because they were stupid and didn't use disguises to get the impact that scene should have.

I'm not worried about that. :) The audience will simply be absorbed in the emotion of the moment, IMO. :cool: It's up to the film-makers to make the scene credible.

The chase scenes look very intense and I love the shot of Ron splinched with Hermione casting protection spells with his blood on her hands.

All good stuff. :)

I like the idea of having Ollivander discuss the rumors of the Hallows with Harry - presuming that will be in part 2 of course. With Xenophilius telling them about the Hallows in part 1, I think that would be a great way to remind the audience of the Hallows in part 2.

I do really like Ollivander explaining the Hallows. :tu: John Hurt's rather sinister, ambiguous voice is perfect for that. :agree:

SwedishSkinJer

December 10th, 2009, 2:06 pm

Hello,

What "spoilers" for DH are you talking about, particularly with the final confrontation? Could someone link me to this?

meesha1971

December 10th, 2009, 3:25 pm

The book already had Harry and Hermione acting like morons at Godric's Hollow, just going there in the first place was stupid considering everything. Dropping the polyjuice might make them seem just a little bit stupider, but it will make the sight of Harry at the graves a thousand times better. Harry and Hermione are only 17, I hardly think a bit of recklessness of Harry's part is something to get het up about. Didn't Dumbledore mention to Harry that he worried he thought too much with his heart and not enough with his head? Harry being reckless is as canon as it gets.

Doing something that is risky and/or dangerous is not the same as being stupid though. A person can do something risky and/or dangerous and still go about it with some intelligence to reduce the risk as much as possible - which is exactly what Harry and Hermione did in the book. They knew going to Godric's Hollow was a risk and they took every precaution they could think of to reduce that risk as much as possible. Disguising themselves with polyjuice, using the Invisibility cloak, etc... They didn't factor in Nagini being able to recognize Harry regardless, but they also could not know that Nagini could be hidden inside a dead both either so it balances out. Harry often did things that were dangerous because he felt it was necessary, but he also tried to reduce the risk as much as he could.

The sight of Harry at the grave is irrelevant because it would be Harry at the grave regardless of what actor is playing him. All the audience needs to know is that it is Harry visiting his parents graves and the emotion would come through because of that regardless of what Harry looks like. The character is what matters - not the actor. I think having Harry be stupid and go out in public without any kind of disguise will remove any emotion from that scene because the audience will not be paying any attention to what Dan is doing at the grave whatsoever - they'll be too focused on the background looking for Death Eaters instead. Without polyjuice - or at least some kind of disguise to show that they are trying to reduce the risk to themselves - that scene is going to fall flat and have no impact, IMO.

Yes, this does seem kinda odd but I also am going to wait to find out more before I really judge it...

It might work better within the context of the actual scene so I'm reserving final judgment as well. But what we've seen so far and the purported spoiler about that strikes me as very odd and - if the spoiler is accurate - I don't think that will work.

I don't have very strong feelings towards this. I really wish they'd just keep the kiss as in the book though. I liked Harry's "Oi! We're in the middle of a war" comment or whatever it was. :lol: Unfortunately we'll lose that now I guess. Plus the atmosphere will be completely different. We won't feel any sense of danger around them when they are down in deserted chamber.

Harry's reaction was amusing and I think that would have been great on film as well, but I think that will work fine with this change. Harry had to be present for it in the book because everything was from his point of view and that was the only way to show it. The film is not limited in that respect so it can be a more private moment for them. Given the circumstances and the fact that they go into the chamber to destroy a Horcrux - which is going to be a difficult and horrifying experience for Hermione - I don't think the sense of danger will be lost. I think that could actually be even more intense.

Yeah, I don't know about the apparent places they've thrown him in either. And I do hope Dobby's death is still a strong possibility for the location of the split and that the filmmakers come to their senses and realize this would allow for the most balance between the two parts as well as a more substantial resolution to part 1 :tu:

This has been one of the issues I've worried about for DH. They really should have kept Dobby in the previous movies - or at least kept him in HBP and used that film to develop the relationship between him and Harry. I'm not sure how all that will work but I hope they have something good in mind for it.

I'm less worried about the split point than you are - Dobby's burial is my preference because it is the natural divide in the story, but the cliffhanger with the snatcher's catching them was always my second choice. I think either would work all right.

Yeah, I think so too. At first I was like WHAT?!...but yeah Ron and Hermione aren't essential for this scene really and it should work just fine (or better) with Ginny and Harry against Malfoy and his goons :p

Yeah - I was actually expecting something along those lines for the book because they kept bringing up Ginny's experience with the diary in COS later on and Diarymort had told Harry about sharing his secrets with Ginny. It seemed likely she would have some information that would be useful to Harry and play some kind of role in finding the unknown Horcrux. I got everything else right - the tiara in the Room of Requirement - but it wasn't Ginny who helped him find it. But I don't think that really changes much because Ron and Hermione didn't help him find it either - they were there as potential victims/distractions for Crabbe and Goyle. Ginny works just as well for that and I think they can use that to give more development to their relationship.

Yeah, if this dream_silently is to be believed the it sounds like they've gone and screwed up the "B-day kiss" too :grumble: Well at least they are supposed to have a proper passionate kiss added at the end. This is something I felt the book was missing anyways. In the book the battle ended and then he went off to talk to Dumbledore. I dunno, you'd think the first thing he'd do is run to his girl... :lol: :p

I actually liked how it was in the end of the book. Of course, I would have loved to have actually seen their reunion - I am a mushy romantic at heart :love: - but I didn't think it was necessary for the story. Harry's first thought was Ginny, but he chose to let her have that time with her mother and finish up what he needed to do first. I really liked the part where he thinks about how they would have all the time in the world now because that implied that he wanted it to be special and have the time to devote to it rather than just a rushed moment before he had to dash off to finish everything up. And, really, what else could he do? It wouldn't have been very romantic for him to snatch her away from Molly and give her a quick smooch only to say "Ok, hold that thought. I've got a few more things to do and I'll be right back" and then dash off again.

However, I don't think that would work as well for the film because we won't have Harry's thoughts to explain why he's waiting. And with all the mistakes they've made in developing this relationship in the previous films - particularly HBP - they're going to have to add things in DH to make up for it. I hope they don't go for a quickie smooch with him dashing off to talk to Dumbledore's portrait though. I'd rather they save that for after he's finished everything.

I'm also not surprised about the birthday kiss for the same reason - disappointed, but not surprised. They screwed up Harry and Ginny's relationship so badly in HBP, I really don't see any way they could keep the birthday kiss and have it make any sense. If Harry had dated Ginny in the HBP film as he was supposed to, it would make sense because their feelings would be established - as well as his reasons for ending it the way he did. But having them not get together at all and Harry show little to no interest in Ginny from the point where she tried to kiss him in the Room of Requirement would not fit with her trying to kiss him again. Why would she even try after the way he rejected her in HBP? They're basically going to have to start from scratch for that relationship - and I'm not entirely certain they'll be able to pull it off after seeing HBP. I hope they do a good job with it, but I don't have much confidence in them.

Oh I know, same here. :grumble:

I really don't like this for reasons I've stated before and also that which you've expanded on I see a few posts down I see. This is probably the primary reason I kinda hope dream_silently is a fake, despite like everything else sounding awesome... :whistle:

Same here. Most of the other stuff seems pretty likely regardless of his validity as a source though - it fits with comments we've seen from the actors, Heyman, and Yates as well as the footage we've seen so far. I'm wondering if he's just spent a lot of time pouring over interviews to put all that together - even the bit about Harry and Hermione dancing was revealed in an interview before the footage was released. I hope he's wrong about this because that would just ruin the whole scene, IMO.

Hmm, all interesting possibilities :tu:

We'll just have to wait until we know more though... :shrug: Maybe Frank Dillane will reveal a bit in an interview here sometime.

Maybe - I don't recall him giving any interviews before though. Some type of memory scene involving the Horcruxes seems likely, but I think the possibility that he's just filming footage to be used for a photograph or newspaper article is something we need to keep in mind. Not every actor they cast is actually going to be part of a scene in the film - we ran into that with HBP with all those actors cast for Slughorn's pictures, remember?

HMN

December 10th, 2009, 4:38 pm

I don't see why it should be disconcerting at all. :hmm: I think it's a pretty brilliant idea if you ask me. And I think they will still have Xeno mention the Hallows but as said before, Ollivander kinda "validates" the story, so people don't just pass it off as some crazy myth, which is no doubt what it'll seem to be coming from a character like Xeno if he's anything like in the book... :lol: The big thing for me is that Olivander had never heard of the Hallows, which was important because we then learned through Olivander that Voldemort didn't know about the Hallows.

FlashMemory

December 10th, 2009, 4:56 pm

It seemed that Harry is on his own when he hears about the Hallows which I think would add weight to the fact Ron and Hermione find his obsession so unbelievable, the Hallows are personal to him, maybe that's what they're trying to highlight.

meesha1971

December 10th, 2009, 5:05 pm

The big thing for me is that Olivander had never heard of the Hallows, which was important because we then learned through Olivander that Voldemort didn't know about the Hallows.

I don't think that will affect the story all that much because the clip shows Ollivander discussing the Hallows in the context of them being rumor rather than fact. That is consistent with what Xenophilius tells the trio because most people did not believe the Hallows existed. The legend of them - particularly the part about them belonging to Death - was too fantastic and most would not believe it. Of the three, only the Elder wand could be traced back through history - and even that was easily confused as being multiple wands rather than just one wand because it had been given different names over the years.

I think Dumbledore was right about Voldemort not being interested in the Hallows as a group. The legend of the Hallows was about accepting death and Voldemort wanted to conquer death. He didn't need an Invisibility cloak and the stone would not interest him because there was no spirit he would want to bring back. Even in the legend, the stone didn't actually resurrect the dead - it just brought back the spirit. He wanted the wand because it was purported to be powerful - unbeatable - and he felt that would increase his own power. I don't think Ollivander knowing rumors about the Hallows would change that because the wand would still be the only one that interested Voldemort and he wouldn't be able to get to the other two anyway because Harry already had them and nobody knew where they were.

MrSleepyHead

December 10th, 2009, 5:05 pm

I don't see why it should be disconcerting at all. I think it's a pretty brilliant idea if you ask me. And I think they will still have Xeno mention the Hallows but as said before, Ollivander kinda "validates" the story, so people don't just pass it off as some crazy myth, which is no doubt what it'll seem to be coming from a character like Xeno if he's anything like in the book..
The big thing for me is that Olivander had never heard of the Hallows, which was important because we then learned through Olivander that Voldemort didn't know about the Hallows.
I agree. Ollivander knowing rumors about the Hallows slightly jeopardizes the idea that Voldemort does not know about them. Ollivander tells Voldemort about the power of the Elder Wand, so why would he not divulge the true story of the Elder Wand (i.e. the Deathly Hallows) when talking to Voldemort?

Also, in the book, I like how Harry has no verification of the Hallows other than Xenophilius, The Tale of the Three Brothers, and Ollivander discussing the Elder Wand. It makes Harry much more independent and understanding of what Dumbledore wanted. Dumbledore left subtle hints for Harry to find, and the amazing aspect of Harry's Quest is that he did find them all, with very little outside help.

Also, if Ollivander knows about the rumors of the Hallows, it seems unlikely that Ron and Hermione would doubt the story as much. Therefore, to me, it seems like Ron and Hermione's skepticism will not be present regarding the Hallows, which, as I see it, slightly ruins Harry's understanding and Quest.

I do agree, though, that Ollivander knowing about the Hallows will be a good way to remind the audience of the Hallows in Part Two, which should work very well. I am simply hesitant about how Harry's Quest for the Hallows and how Hermione and Ron's attitude will be portrayed.

EDIT:
I think Dumbledore was right about Voldemort not being interested in the Hallows as a group. The legend of the Hallows was about accepting death and Voldemort wanted to conquer death. He didn't need an Invisibility cloak and the stone would not interest him because there was no spirit he would want to bring back. Even in the legend, the stone didn't actually resurrect the dead - it just brought back the spirit. He wanted the wand because it was purported to be powerful - unbeatable - and he felt that would increase his own power. I don't think Ollivander knowing rumors about the Hallows would change that because the wand would still be the only one that interested Voldemort and he wouldn't be able to get to the other two anyway because Harry already had them and nobody knew where they were.
I do not think the legend surrounding the Hallows was that collecting them all meant you accepted death. To me, it seems like very few understood that (Dumbledore and Harry, as far as we know). Xenophilius describes possessing all the Hallows as being master, conqueror, or vanquisher of Death - not acceptor of Death. Even Dumbledore and Grindelwald took "Master of Death" to mean "invincible." Therefore, I think Voldemort would be interested in the Hallows, and if Ollivander knew rumors of the Hallows, it would be logical that Ollivander would tell Voldemort about them when Voldemort tortured information of the Elder Wand out of Ollivander.

HMN

December 10th, 2009, 5:29 pm

Also, if Ollivander knows about the rumors of the Hallows, it seems unlikely that Ron and Hermione would doubt the story as much. Therefore, to me, it seems like Ron and Hermione's skepticism will not be present regarding the Hallows, which, as I see it, slightly ruins Harry's understanding and Quest.Thank you! And because I'm such a book fan it is sometimes hard for me to let go of all the subtleties of the plot. I know in a 2.5 hour movie it would be hard to represent Harry's preoccupation of the Hallows vs. the task of destroying the Horcruxes. But I still maintain that it's a poor interpretation to have someone Voldemort is torturing for information to have knowledge of the Hallows. I mean the end of the books we see Harry as the master of death because he has learned to face it full on and accept it. And whether that is because he possessed all 3 hallows or not, it is a meaningful. He accepts and understands what Voldemort doesn't.

I do agree, though, that Ollivander knowing about the Hallows will be a good way to remind the audience of the Hallows in Part Two, which should work very well. I am simply hesitant about how Harry's Quest for the Hallows and how Hermione and Ron's attitude will be portrayed.
If we need a reminder of the Hallows, I'd like to see Luna tell everyone. It would make sense for a father to pass down the knowledge of the quest to his daughter. Olivander while he knows a lot about wandlore, only can help Voldie so much. At the end of the story Harry is the one who knows all the sides of the story, which is what gives him knowledge and power over Voldemort.

Sesquipedalian

December 10th, 2009, 6:02 pm

The sight of Harry at the grave is irrelevant because it would be Harry at the grave regardless of what actor is playing him. All the audience needs to know is that it is Harry visiting his parents graves and the emotion would come through because of that regardless of what Harry looks like. The character is what matters - not the actor.

To an avid fan of the novels, yes, this may be the case. However, to the general movie audience, many members of which are most likely non-readers, Daniel Radcliffe is the character of Harry. They have been following his portrayal of the character for the past nine years, watching him as he matures and either supporting or criticising his actions; outside of a single scene in Chamber of Secrets, Dan has played the character this entire time. If you were to walk up to a random person on the streets, show him or her a picture of Daniel Radcliffe and inquired as to who he believed it was a photograph of, I am certain that he or she would state that it was Harry Potter, not Daniel Radcliffe. Dan's presence during the Godric's Hollow scene is crucial to relaying its emotion to the audience; otherwise, it will be no different than taking a walk through a neighbourhood cemetery and seeing a stranger bending over the grave of a deceased loved one.

meesha1971

December 10th, 2009, 6:26 pm

I agree. Ollivander knowing rumors about the Hallows slightly jeopardizes the idea that Voldemort does not know about them. Ollivander tells Voldemort about the power of the Elder Wand, so why would he not divulge the true story of the Elder Wand (i.e. the Deathly Hallows) when talking to Voldemort?

Also, in the book, I like how Harry has no verification of the Hallows other than Xenophilius, The Tale of the Three Brothers, and Ollivander discussing the Elder Wand. It makes Harry much more independent and understanding of what Dumbledore wanted. Dumbledore left subtle hints for Harry to find, and the amazing aspect of Harry's Quest is that he did find them all, with very little outside help.

Also, if Ollivander knows about the rumors of the Hallows, it seems unlikely that Ron and Hermione would doubt the story as much. Therefore, to me, it seems like Ron and Hermione's skepticism will not be present regarding the Hallows, which, as I see it, slightly ruins Harry's understanding and Quest.

I think Hermione would be skeptical about the Hallows regardless because the concept went against her logical view of things. She knew that there were numerous historical references to powerful wands like that from their History of Magic classes, but she chose to not to believe them and it didn't make her believe that the Elder wand was real. She didn't want to believe that a wand could increase someone's power and the idea of resurrection stone terrified her. I don't think Ollivander confirming that he knew about rumors would change that. Ron was more willing to accept that idea that the Hallows were real, but skeptical that Dumbledore wanted Harry to find them. I don't think Ollivander knowing about rumors would change that either.

I do agree, though, that Ollivander knowing about the Hallows will be a good way to remind the audience of the Hallows in Part Two, which should work very well. I am simply hesitant about how Harry's Quest for the Hallows and how Hermione and Ron's attitude will be portrayed.

EDIT:

I do not think the legend surrounding the Hallows was that collecting them all meant you accepted death. To me, it seems like very few understood that (Dumbledore and Harry, as far as we know). Xenophilius describes possessing all the Hallows as being master, conqueror, or vanquisher of Death - not acceptor of Death. Even Dumbledore and Grindelwald took "Master of Death" to mean "invincible." Therefore, I think Voldemort would be interested in the Hallows, and if Ollivander knew rumors of the Hallows, it would be logical that Ollivander would tell Voldemort about them when Voldemort tortured information of the Elder Wand out of Ollivander.

I would disagree because Dumbledore had already considered the possibility that Voldemort might have already known or would learn about the Hallows and didn't believe Voldemort would be interested in anything but the wand. I think he was right about that. The legend refers to the Master of Death, but mastering something is not the same as defeating or conquering it. The legend is presented in the story and none of the brothers conquered death - the first two brothers died terrible deaths and the third accepted death when he was an old man. The Invisibility cloak would not protect someone against the killing curse and Dumbledore and Grindelwald weren't really interested in it apart from wanting it to complete the set and maybe using it to hide Ariana. The resurrection stone only summoned the spirit of the dead - Dumbledore believed Grindelwald thought he could use it to create an army of Inferi, but Voldemort had already done that without the stone so he wouldn't have any reason to be interested in it.

It was the Elder wand that would purportedly make someone invincible - an unbeatable, powerful wand. The legend depicts the first brother as being murdered in his sleep rather than being defeated in a duel so it would be easy for one to assume that the Elder wand was unbeatable in a duel and think that it would only be necessary to make sure the wand couldn't be taken by trickery or being murdered in your sleep as the first brother was in the story. Voldemort did not fear either because his own arrogance made him confident that none of his Death Eaters would betray him like that.

Whether or not Voldemort knew about the Hallows didn't really matter in the story because he would only have wanted the wand regardless - Dumbledore explained that to Harry in Kings Cross. Harry had worried about what Voldemort would do if he knew about them, but Dumbledore reassured him that it would not matter. Nor would he have been able to get the cloak or the stone because Harry already had those two in his possession and nobody knew about that apart from Dumbledore. The possibility of Voldemort learning that there are rumors about the Hallows from Ollivander in the film won't change anything because of that, IMO.

phoenix88

December 10th, 2009, 6:27 pm

mrfutterman

December 10th, 2009, 6:29 pm

Thankfully they are not going to mess up Godric's Hollow with unknown middle aged actors playing Harry and Hermione! This kind of boldness would have done the last couple of films a power of good!

Godric's Hollow looks just awful to me as well. Dan looks really awkward and stiff and I didn't get any sense of emotion from him there at all. But that's pretty much what I expected if they didn't use polyjuice for that scene -....

Dan has been awkward and stiff for 10 years now - without any polyjuice (how could that possibly make any difference?).

meesha1971

December 10th, 2009, 6:53 pm

To an avid fan of the novels, yes, this may be the case. However, to the general movie audience, many members of which are most likely non-readers, Daniel Radcliffe is the character of Harry. They have been following his portrayal of the character for the past nine years, watching him as he matures and either supporting or criticising his actions; outside of a single scene in Chamber of Secrets, Dan has played the character this entire time. If you were to walk up to a random person on the streets, show him or her a picture of Daniel Radcliffe and inquired as to who he believed it was a photograph of, I am certain that he or she would state that it was Harry Potter, not Daniel Radcliffe. Dan's presence during the Godric's Hollow scene is crucial to relaying its emotion to the audience; otherwise, it will be no different than taking a walk through a neighbourhood cemetery and seeing a stranger bending over the grave of a deceased loved one.

I would disagree because other movies have done similar things without losing any emotional impact. Saving Private Ryan goes from showing Private Ryan as a young man in battle to showing an old man standing over the grave of Captain Miller. There is no explanation given as to who this old man is until the very end of the scene when his family joins him. It's still a very emotional moment and they didn't need Matt Damon to pull it off because it was understood that the old man was Private Ryan. What he looked like did not matter because the audience understood it was the same character.

The same is true for Harry Potter. It is the character that matters - not the actor. All the audience needs to know is that it is Harry standing at the graves of his parents for the first time for the emotional impact of that scene to come through. His face is irrelevant because that's not where the emotion comes from. The emotion comes from knowing that his parents died to save him and this is the first time Harry has seen their graves. They could just shoot the graves with only Hermione there and say Harry is next to her under the cloak and still have a very emotional scene because the audience would know Harry is there seeing his parents graves for the first time.

But having Harry go out in public without any kind of disguise at all when he knows that he is "Undesirable #1" and there are wanted posters all over showing his picture and Voldemort wants him captured so he can kill him will suck every bit of emotion out of that scene because the audience is not going to be paying any attention to Daniel Radcliffe at all. They won't care where Harry is or what he's doing because they're going to be looking for him to be attacked. They are going to be watching the background for the Death Eaters to show up - or cringing in their seats with their eyes covered because they're expecting an attack. That would be no different than trying to cram an emotional graveyard scene in the middle of a zombie movie after showing the dead rising and attacking people. Instead of an emotional scene, you end up with suspense and people won't even remember why they were in the graveyard to begin with - only that they were stupid and put themselves in danger without taking any precaution.

lcbaseball22

December 10th, 2009, 6:53 pm

Harry's reaction was amusing and I think that would have been great on film as well, but I think that will work fine with this change. Harry had to be present for it in the book because everything was from his point of view and that was the only way to show it. The film is not limited in that respect so it can be a more private moment for them. Given the circumstances and the fact that they go into the chamber to destroy a Horcrux - which is going to be a difficult and horrifying experience for Hermione - I don't think the sense of danger will be lost. I think that could actually be even more intense.

Well before the Horcrux is destroyed it might feel a bit dangerous, but what I meant is there won't be a battle going on around them. Why should they think anyone else is going to come down into the Chamber? Who else even knows how to get down there besides Voldemort himself? Ron and Hermione are going to be completely isolated from all that's going on. If they felt like it, they could spend as much time down there as they want...and do a bit more than kissing ;) Of course, this was basically true of Harry and Ginny in the RoR in HBP as well, and we all know how that lacked a feeling of intimacy...

I'm less worried about the split point than you are - Dobby's burial is my preference because it is the natural divide in the story, but the cliffhanger with the snatcher's catching them was always my second choice. I think either would work all right.

I wouldn't say this is an accurate assessment. The snatcher's cliffhanger has always been my second choice too ever since I heard the idea mentioned on Mugglecast back before the split was even official :p The idea was just a bit different though. They suggested ending it with the Snatchers outside the tent saying like "come out, we've got you surrounded" or whatever it is they say in the book...and the fade into black as the deluminator is extinguished.

I actually liked how it was in the end of the book. Of course, I would have loved to have actually seen their reunion - I am a mushy romantic at heart :love: - but I didn't think it was necessary for the story. Harry's first thought was Ginny, but he chose to let her have that time with her mother and finish up what he needed to do first. I really liked the part where he thinks about how they would have all the time in the world now because that implied that he wanted it to be special and have the time to devote to it rather than just a rushed moment before he had to dash off to finish everything up. And, really, what else could he do? It wouldn't have been very romantic for him to snatch her away from Molly and give her a quick smooch only to say "Ok, hold that thought. I've got a few more things to do and I'll be right back" and then dash off again.

However, I don't think that would work as well for the film because we won't have Harry's thoughts to explain why he's waiting. And with all the mistakes they've made in developing this relationship in the previous films - particularly HBP - they're going to have to add things in DH to make up for it. I hope they don't go for a quickie smooch with him dashing off to talk to Dumbledore's portrait though. I'd rather they save that for after he's finished everything.

I really don't get what you are saying here. :huh: Why is is so necessary to rush off to talk to Dumbledore to "finish things up"? He could have talked to him anytime. It's not like Dumbledore's portrait was going anywhere :lol: Harry and Ginny on the other hand, well they both just went through traumatic experiences in this war where neither could be sure if this day would their last and even with the war over now one can't be sure how much longer they'll have before one of them dies somehow. I dunno, I think it'll work fine in the movie but yeah I hope it's not a quick smooch and then he runs off to talk to Dumbledore's portrait. :lol: It doesn't sound that way if dream is to be beleived though...since he said they "quote properly at the end" or something along those lines. :tu:

I'm also not surprised about the birthday kiss for the same reason - disappointed, but not surprised. They screwed up Harry and Ginny's relationship so badly in HBP, I really don't see any way they could keep the birthday kiss and have it make any sense. If Harry had dated Ginny in the HBP film as he was supposed to, it would make sense because their feelings would be established - as well as his reasons for ending it the way he did. But having them not get together at all and Harry show little to no interest in Ginny from the point where she tried to kiss him in the Room of Requirement would not fit with her trying to kiss him again. Why would she even try after the way he rejected her in HBP? They're basically going to have to start from scratch for that relationship - and I'm not entirely certain they'll be able to pull it off after seeing HBP. I hope they do a good job with it, but I don't have much confidence in them.

Hmm, yeah that's a good point :hmm:

Maybe - I don't recall him giving any interviews before though. Some type of memory scene involving the Horcruxes seems likely, but I think the possibility that he's just filming footage to be used for a photograph or newspaper article is something we need to keep in mind. Not every actor they cast is actually going to be part of a scene in the film - we ran into that with HBP with all those actors cast for Slughorn's pictures, remember?

No, I don't think he did but there was many actors who just had small parts that revealed a bit about what their role in the film was. And with him being a returning actor who played a pretty significant part before, I wouldn't be surprised if someone tries to arrange an interview with him to find out more.

The big thing for me is that Olivander had never heard of the Hallows, which was important because we then learned through Olivander that Voldemort didn't know about the Hallows.

I don't think this is entirely true. :hmm:

Ollivander knew about the Elder Wand at least, we know that much from the book. And do we know if he grew up in a wizarding family? Surely he would have had the bedtime story told to him as Ron did, right? It's just something he probably forgot about after his youth...but might be able to recall the myth if someone inquired about it. Anyways, it seems in the film they are taking the angle of him believing it only to be "RUMORED" so I think it's just fine. It's not so incredulous to think Ollivander wouldn't at least have heard of the idea... :shrug:

And if the filmmakers feel the need to re-cap for the audience, it's a great way of doing it without being so blatant :tu:

meesha1971

December 10th, 2009, 7:01 pm

Dan has been awkward and stiff for 10 years now - without any polyjuice (how could that possibly make any difference?).

Well, I agree with you about Dan - that would be my biggest reason for hoping they would be smart and use a different actor for polyjuiced Harry. Someone good and portraying emotional scenes would have been ideal for that scene.

But I can't say that I'm surprised that they went for making Harry look like a complete idiot instead. It's certainly not the first time. We can only hope that they at least have them using the cloak - that would at least show some sense of caution - but I'm not holding my breath.

katana

December 10th, 2009, 7:10 pm

[QUOTE=lcbaseball22;5466881]Yeah, if this dream_silently is to be believed the it sounds like they've gone and screwed up the "B-day kiss" too :grumble: Well at least they are supposed to have a proper passionate kiss added at the end. This is something I felt the book was missing anyways. In the book the battle ended and then he went off to talk to Dumbledore. I dunno, you'd think the first thing he'd do is run to his girl... :lol: :p
I didn't mind the kiss in HBP, but I think if they duplicate that one for the birthday kiss, they've done the wrong thing. It definitely needs to be more intense than it was in the ROR. But I think it could also work rather well if at the end of the part 2 they share a kiss that's similar to the kiss in HBP book after the Quidditch game. More intense on both of their parts.

To an avid fan of the novels, yes, this may be the case. However, to the general movie audience, many members of which are most likely non-readers, Daniel Radcliffe is the character of Harry. They have been following his portrayal of the character for the past nine years, watching him as he matures and either supporting or criticising his actions; outside of a single scene in Chamber of Secrets, Dan has played the character this entire time. If you were to walk up to a random person on the streets, show him or her a picture of Daniel Radcliffe and inquired as to who he believed it was a photograph of, I am certain that he or she would state that it was Harry Potter, not Daniel Radcliffe. Dan's presence during the Godric's Hollow scene is crucial to relaying its emotion to the audience; otherwise, it will be no different than taking a walk through a neighbourhood cemetery and seeing a stranger bending over the grave of a deceased loved one.
:agree:THIS!!^ I completely agree with this. I think it's more important to have Harry as himself in this scene to make the emotions of this scene more effective. Even though I would know it's Harry in the Polyjuice, it would be harder to feel for him if I'm not able to see him and his emotions. Having them played through a face that is not Harry's would take away from it, IMO.

Yes, that's how I see it too. I expect there will be the taunting and circling, etc. They may just expand on it to include more spells and enhance the effects. Since this is the climax of the movie and probably the entire series, it has to at least match the duel of Harry and Voldemort in GOF visually for the nonreading audience to feel satisfied.

Plus, as master said, Harry goes into this final confrontation pretty confident because of his knowledge that he is the true master of the elder wand. I think it will be brilliant!
:agree: Agreed. There needs to be more to this final confrontation to help avoid repetition of GOF. I think they need to show that Harry has improved as a wizard and his skills are a little better. Even though, Meesha's right that Harry is still no match for LV, but I think people will be hoping for more than than a GOF repeat. And if those spoilers are true, then it should be pretty excellent!

lcbaseball22

December 10th, 2009, 7:18 pm

:agree:THIS!!^ I completely agree with this. I think it's more important to have Harry as himself in this scene to make the emotions of this scene more effective. Even though I would know it's Harry in the Polyjuice, it would be harder to feel for him if I'm not able to see him and his emotions. Having them played through a face that is not Harry's would take away from it, IMO.

Yep, this seems to be the general consensus amongst the fans here. :tu: I think this should go over well with the film only audience too...

:agree: Agreed. There needs to be more to this final confrontation to help avoid repetition of GOF. I think they need to show that Harry has improved as a wizard and his skills are a little better. Even though, Meesha's right that Harry is still no match for LV, but I think people will be hoping for more than than a GOF repeat. And if those spoilers are true, then it should be pretty excellent!

It's not the same though. I don't expect the spells from their wands to lock for what seemed like eternity in GoF. It's not really priori incantatem in DH, is it? :hmm: Anyways, I really disagree. I don't think there needs to be any more than what was in the book for this. I have seen plenty of tense scenes that are nothing more than "a battle of words" to know this can work just as well on screen as in the book :)

CandyCane23049

December 10th, 2009, 7:26 pm

How is Dan stiff in that moment? How can you really tell in that short period of time? The only time I really had a problem with him is POA, other than that he has been fine to me conveying his emotions.

Also if he is stiff some people are just that way. My father is stiff too, when it comes to emotions himself.

People grieve differently.

SevPrince

December 10th, 2009, 7:28 pm

meesha1971

December 10th, 2009, 7:30 pm

Well before the Horcrux is destroyed it might feel a bit dangerous, but what I meant is there won't be a battle going on around them. Why should they think anyone else is going to come down into the Chamber? Who else even knows how to get down there besides Voldemort himself? Ron and Hermione are going to be completely isolated from all that's going on. If they felt like it, they could spend as much time down there as they want...and do a bit more than kissing ;) Of course, this was basically true of Harry and Ginny in the RoR in HBP as well, and we all know how that lacked a feeling of intimacy...

Why would anyone have to go after them? The chamber of secrets is deep below the school - which is being bombarded by attacks that shake the foundations of the castle. The tunnel going to the chamber is already caved in from Lockhart trying to do a memory charm on Harry and Ron in COS with Ron's broken wand - they'll probably have to widen the hole Ron made to get Harry and Ginny through back then. They will be isolated and nobody knows they're down there. The tunnel could completely collapse and they've got a Horcrux to destroy and Ron already knows what could happen there because of what happened with him and the locket. I think that's going to be more of a "we could die down here so it's now or never" moment.

I wouldn't say this is an accurate assessment. The snatcher's cliffhanger has always been my second choice too ever since I heard the idea mentioned on Mugglecast back before the split was even official :p The idea was just a bit different though. They suggested ending it with the Snatchers outside the tent saying like "come out, we've got you surrounded" or whatever it is they say in the book...and the fade into black as the deluminator is extinguished.

That would be my preference as well - I like the visual of it. However, I think the cliffhanger works whether they use that visual or not. Dobby's burial is still my first choice, but I like the suspense of the cliffhanger as well.

I really don't get what you are saying here. :huh: Why is is so necessary to rush off to talk to Dumbledore to "finish things up"? He could have talked to him anytime. It's not like Dumbledore's portrait was going anywhere :lol: Harry and Ginny on the other hand, well they both just went through traumatic experiences in this war where neither could be sure if this day would their last and even with the war over now one can't be sure how much longer they'll have before one of them dies somehow. I dunno, I think it'll work fine in the movie but yeah I hope it's not a quick smooch and then he runs off to talk to Dumbledore's portrait. :lol: It doesn't sound that way if dream is to be beleived though...since he said they "quote properly at the end" or something along those lines. :tu:

Harry felt it was necessary - my impression was that he just wanted to get it all done and over with so he could move on and have a normal life without having anything hanging over him. Ginny was having a moment with her mother and he still had things he needed to do before he could say that it was completely over. Ginny was his first thought as soon as he got a moment to himself, but he wanted to wait until it was all done. I think that was the moment when the fact that he had survived really kicked in. Once he had talked to Dumbledore's portrait, that would be it - it would be over and his life would be his own to live. He had all the time in the world to spend with Ginny once it was all done.

That's what I liked about it - Harry's thoughts about how they had all this time now. I think the film can play on that by having the kiss happen after Harry has talked to Dumbledore's portrait - perhaps running into Ginny as he's leaving the Headmaster's office or something like that. It would be nice if they could work that line about them having time now into it as well.

No, I don't think he did but there was many actors who just had small parts that revealed a bit about what their role in the film was. And with him being a returning actor who played a pretty significant part before, I wouldn't be surprised if someone tries to arrange an interview with him to find out more.

Possibly. But he seems to keep a very low profile. There weren't even any pictures of him online until they started releasing stills from the film. That might change now, but it's hard to say.

He's not the only source though. Heyman or Yates could talk about what his role will be as well - they do a lot of interviews. :lol:

I don't think this is entirely true. :hmm:

Ollivander knew about the Elder Wand at least, we know that much from the book. And do we know if he grew up in a wizarding family? Surely he would have had the bedtime story told to him as Ron did, right? It's just something he probably forgot about after his youth...but might be able to recall the myth if someone inquired about it. Anyways, it seems in the film they are taking the angle of him believing it only to be "RUMORED" so I think it's just fine. It's not so incredulous to think Ollivander wouldn't at least have heard of the idea... :shrug:

And if the filmmakers feel the need to re-cap for the audience, it's a great way of doing it without being so blatant :tu:

Well, the story doesn't actually mention the Deathly Hallows specifically. It just gives the events of the three brothers getting those objects from Death and what happened to them. If you didn't already know something about the Hallows, the story by itself wouldn't mean anything to you. Ron knew the story by heart, but he didn't know anything about the Deathly Hallows.

Other than that, I agree with you. Ollivander knowing rumors about the Deathly Hallows won't change anything and it's a good way for them to recap that concept in part 2.

Noldus

December 10th, 2009, 7:38 pm

But I can't say that I'm surprised that they went for making Harry look like a complete idiot instead. It's certainly not the first time.

Not the first time? What do you mean? Dan's portrait of the character is pretty canon. Harry is sort of stupid at times in the books too :p Besides, we don't know how that scene will play out in the film. They might be wearing it until they find the tombstones. Perhaps they take it off to find his parent's grave? I doubt the scene will be ruined by this. Come on, Harry and Hermione are alone there. It seems safe, they do a mistake, but so what? It won't bug the non-readers because the trio took a risk in going there in the first place. The audience will feel the emotion in the scene, not look for death eaters in the blurred background. It would be nonsense to use another actor for such an emotional scene for Harry. The loss of his parents has been a main theme through the series. We need to see Daniel's face in that scene. I for one wouldn't feel connected to a random guy.

decarus

December 10th, 2009, 7:42 pm

I always felt like Ron and Hermione gave more credence to the whole hallows thing after they spoke to Ollivander anyways because it proved what Harry had been saying, that Voldemort was searching for the Elder wand, and if the Elder wand is real and they know that Harry has a cloak of true invisibility then it is possible that the resurrection stone exists as well. I also thought that was why they were impressed is because Harry ended up being right about all that.

I still think that the trio will learn about the Hallows initially from Xenophilius. If not, what exactly would be their reason to visit him?

Hello,

What "spoilers" for DH are you talking about, particularly with the final confrontation? Could someone link me to this?

LINK (http://www.harrypotterforum.com/comments.php?DiscussionID=1072&page=1)

This guy could be making all of this up. We just don't know at this point.

lcbaseball22

December 10th, 2009, 7:48 pm

The Silver Doe scene:

Harry follows the Doe in the forest (he has seen it once more before) and goes to the lake(which is a big and completely frozen). Harry has to swim to the middle of the lake and he does so. Then he has to dive in the depths where the sword lies. When Harry is diving in the deep, he can't move and breathe from the cold and Ron comes and saves him.

Why would snape have the sword that deep in the lake. It doesn't make sense. He is not trying to kill harry. I think it was better in the book where harry's failure was because the locket was trying to strangle him and prevent him from getting the sword. Its not logical to expect someone to be in deep freezing lake that long to get a sword. So this change doesn't make sense to me.

I guess the simple answer would be...to make it more dramatic :lol: I dunno, maybe it's Snape wrestling hatred of Harry but yet wanting to keep true to his vow of helping Lily's only son. I never really understood why Harry had to retreive it from a lake to being with though... :yuhup:

Why would anyone have to go after them? The chamber of secrets is deep below the school - which is being bombarded by attacks that shake the foundations of the castle. The tunnel going to the chamber is already caved in from Lockhart trying to do a memory charm on Harry and Ron in COS with Ron's broken wand - they'll probably have to widen the hole Ron made to get Harry and Ginny through back then. They will be isolated and nobody knows they're down there. The tunnel could completely collapse and they've got a Horcrux to destroy and Ron already knows what could happen there because of what happened with him and the locket. I think that's going to be more of a "we could die down here so it's now or never" moment.

Ah, ok. Well when you put it that way...

Yeah, I guess if they make it feel like the Chamber might collapse on them it will seem pretty dangerous to be down there long. I'm getting visions of way too many movies with mine collapses and such though... :lol:

Harry felt it was necessary - my impression was that he just wanted to get it all done and over with so he could move on and have a normal life without having anything hanging over him. Ginny was having a moment with her mother and he still had things he needed to do before he could say that it was completely over. Ginny was his first thought as soon as he got a moment to himself, but he wanted to wait until it was all done. I think that was the moment when the fact that he had survived really kicked in. Once he had talked to Dumbledore's portrait, that would be it - it would be over and his life would be his own to live. He had all the time in the world to spend with Ginny once it was all done.

That's what I liked about it - Harry's thoughts about how they had all this time now. I think the film can play on that by having the kiss happen after Harry has talked to Dumbledore's portrait - perhaps running into Ginny as he's leaving the Headmaster's office or something like that. It would be nice if they could work that line about them having time now into it as well.

I see, well that makes sense I suppose...

If it felt important to Harry to get everything resolved first. :shrug: But yeah, I don't see how they could include Harry's thoughts at that moment in the film to justify his decision to talk to Dumbledore first...unless they included a voice-over of the thoughts inside Harry's head, which they've not done before and might be cheesy :lol: So I think it will be better then to take the logical route of immediatly jumping Ginny! :p

Possibly. But he seems to keep a very low profile. There weren't even any pictures of him online until they started releasing stills from the film. That might change now, but it's hard to say.

He's not the only source though. Heyman or Yates could talk about what his role will be as well - they do a lot of interviews. :lol:

Ha, true. I forgot about that. The only picture we could find was of him at like 10 yrs old in a film with his dad :lol:

Yeah, if anything is said about it, Heyman or Yates or one of the other filmmakers is probably the more likely to reveal more about this decision, if it's indeed true.

I always felt like Ron and Hermione gave more credence to the whole hallows thing after they spoke to Ollivander anyways because it proved what Harry had been saying, that Voldemort was searching for the Elder wand, and if the Elder wand is real and they know that Harry has a cloak of true invisibility then it is possible that the resurrection stone exists as well. I also thought that was why they were impressed is because Harry ended up being right about all that.

I still think that the trio will learn about the Hallows initially from Xenophilius. If not, what exactly would be their reason to visit him?

Yeah, my thoughts too :agree: Ollivander knowing of the Elder Wand in the book made it seem likely at least 2 of the 3 were real...

meesha1971

December 10th, 2009, 7:56 pm

lcbaseball22

December 10th, 2009, 8:12 pm

Well, they did sort of copy that effect with the duel between Dumbledore and Voldemort in the OOTP film. It wasn't priori incantatem, but I'm not sure what that was supposed to be - it was kinda weird.

Yeah, which I expect even less then for them to do it a THIRD time...at least I hope not. The impression I got in the book is that at most the spells collided for a brief instant before the AK was thrown back at Voldy. Maybe I'm wrong. Could someone post the book passage? :)

I agree with you though. And it's not just an issue of Harry being no match for Voldemort. There's also Voldemort himself. He's not looking to have a duel - he wants to kill Harry. At that point, he's desperate to kill Harry. I can't see Voldemort wasting time trying to duel instead of just going for the kill.

Good point. :tu: Yeah, it only makes sense for their FIRST and only spells to be AK and Expelliarmus, respectively...and therefore you get the same outcome as the book. Why would either of them go with anything else at this moment then their "bread and butter" so to speak??? :p

On a brighter note - Tom Felton described the final battle as a "Western-style showdown". That sounds interesting.

Yes, that does sound more promising... :hmm:

meesha1971

December 10th, 2009, 8:19 pm

I guess the simple answer would be...to make it more dramatic :lol: I dunno, maybe it's Snape wrestling hatred of Harry but yet wanting to keep true to his vow of helping Lily's only son. I never really understood why Harry had to retreive it from a lake to being with though... :yuhup:

I see that as a plot hole myself. Harry had already proven himself in COS and Dumbledore was able to just take the sword from the case and use it to destroy the ring. I see what Jo was trying to do in setting things up for Ron to save Harry and prove he was worthy to the sword - as well as himself - but the set up for that with Dumbledore telling Snape Harry had to prove himself was contradictory, IMO.

I don't see why they would change it to a huge lake either though. I could see using a pond rather than a pool of water, but a lake doesn't make much sense - especially so far out.

Ah, ok. Well when you put it that way...

Yeah, I guess if they make it feel like the Chamber might collapse on them it will seem pretty dangerous to be down there long. I'm getting visions of way too many movies with mine collapses and such though... :lol:

I went in to a cave with some friends once - the tunnel leading to the back went under the highway. It was scary to be in that tunnel when a truck went by overhead because everything rumbled and shook and we really thought the whole thing was going to collapse. I swore I'd never go in another cave again. Then I went to Mammoth Cave - but it's a lot bigger and you didn't have to travel under a road to get to it. :lol:

I think there are a lot of ways they can make show the danger there. And destroying the Horcrux should be intense as well.

I see, well that makes sense I suppose...

If it felt important to Harry to get everything resolved first. :shrug: But yeah, I don't see how they could include Harry's thoughts at that moment in the film to justify his decision to talk to Dumbledore first...unless they included a voice-over of the thoughts inside Harry's head, which they've not done before and might be cheesy :lol: So I think it will be better then to take the logical route of immediatly jumping Ginny! :p

Well, they could have Ron or Hermione ask him if he's seen Ginny yet with him responding that there will be time for that later - hours and days and maybe years ... A "knowing" grin from Hermione - awkward moment for Ron and he changes the subject.

They have a scene of unwritten dialog to work with there because Harry gets Ron and Hermione and tells them everything that happened as they make their way to the headmaster's office. Jo didn't write any of that dialog out and it's plausible that they would have asked him if he'd seen Ginny yet.

Ha, true. I forgot about that. The only picture we could find was of him at like 10 yrs old in a film with his dad :lol:

Yeah, if anything is said about it, Heyman or Yates or one of the other filmmakers is probably the more likely to reveal more about this decision, if it's indeed true.

Or we'll get a picture or footage of him from the film at some point. They do like to play it close to the vest. :lol:

Yeah, my thoughts too :agree: Ollivander knowing of the Elder Wand in the book made it seem likely at least 2 of the 3 were real...

I think Hermione was still skeptical about the wand - at least in terms of whether it actually was that powerful. But Ollivander confirming that it was one wand rather than a bunch of different wands - which was what she believed from their History of Magic lessons - made her more willing to believe that Harry was right about Voldemort searching for it because he believed it was that powerful even if she didn't.

But that is a good point. Ollivander confirming that there was one wand that could be traced back through history and was reportedly very powerful did serve to confirm the existence of two of the Hallows - which makes it easier to believe the third would exist as well. I think that was one of the reasons Hermione remained so skeptical really - it was the stone that scared her the most and, if the first two actually did exist, then the stone probably existed too.

Yeah, which I expect even less then for them to do it a THIRD time...at least I hope not. The impression I got in the book is that at most the spells collided for a brief instant before the AK was thrown back at Voldy. Maybe I'm wrong. Could someone post the book passage? :)

The bang was like a cannon blast, and the golden flames that erupted between them, at the dead center of the circle they had been treading, marked the point where the spells collided. Harry saw Voldemort’s green jet meet his own spell, saw the Elder Wand fly high, dark against the sunrise, spinning across the enchanted ceiling like the head of Nagini, spinning through the air toward the master it would not kill, who had come to take full possession of it at last. And Harry, with the unerring skill of the Seeker, caught the wand in his free hand as Voldemort fell backward, arms splayed, the slit pupils of the scarlet eyes rolling upward. Tom Riddle hit the floor with a mundane finality, his body feeble and shrunken, the white hands empty, the snakelike face vacant and unknowing. Voldemort was dead, killed by his own rebounding curse, and Harry stood with two wands in his hand, staring down at his enemy’s shell.

I love the description - I think that would look so awesome in the film.

Good point. :tu: Yeah, it only makes sense for their FIRST and only spells to be AK and Expelliarmus, respectively...and therefore you get the same outcome as the book. Why would either of them go with anything else at this moment then their "bread and butter" so to speak??? :p

Exactly. They both want it to be over so why would they waste time?

Yes, that does sound more promising... :hmm:

Well, he was talking about the battle as a whole - everyone fighting - and how he was enjoying getting to work with the adult actors. But I still think that sounds promising.

jammi567

December 10th, 2009, 8:29 pm

I don't see why they would change it to a huge lake either though. I could see using a pond rather than a pool of water, but a lake doesn't make much sense - especially so far out.

Rowling was trying to parody the story of the Lady of the Lake, who gave King Arthur the sword Excallubar.

MasterOfDeath

December 10th, 2009, 8:36 pm

lcbaseball22

December 10th, 2009, 8:53 pm

As for the final duel, honestly, the films have always amped things up for the cinematic effect. This has been going on since the very first film where after Hagrid bends back Vernon's shotgun, Vernon shoots a round and it goes off into the roof...something I don't think is even possible. :lol:

This is just the nature of the films. After 7 films, I guess I'm kind of immune to it.

The western comment does sound hopeful. I could go either way on this, to be honest. It'd be nice if it stayed canon, but if it doesn't, it's not the worse thing they could do, IMO.

I'd consider myself more of less tolerant of the changes and the "amping" up that they do...but this is something I absolutely do NOT want changed from the source material for reasons I feel I've stated more than enough. Really I'd like the whole final climactic chapter to remain as close to the source material as possible, with perhaps a little embellishment here and there and adding suspense with not being sure Harry is dead as we've discussed before...but amping up that final duel between Harry and Voldemort?!! NO! :no: I'd really hate that... :relax:

yoshi2542

December 10th, 2009, 8:58 pm

I just hope they don't go too far with all this. What I liked about the book was that it read like a road movie, it didn't try to massively expand the scope when it came to these battle scenes and grand set pieces, it was restrained and that meant that the dramatic moments felt dramatic.

The worst thing that could happen to this story (besides the split of course) would be it if went all Transformers 2 and tried to 'out-do' the previous film in terms of action. IMO they should try to stay as true to that core story as possible, not clutter the movie with huge action sequences. I've said it before, as have others, but I hope Yates is keeping Children of Men in mind when it comes to these films. That kind of determinedly personal storytelling (where the camera is glued to a central character as he moves through the drama) is what will make this movie.

Bscorp

December 10th, 2009, 9:04 pm

What if there is a more simple explanation for why Snape put he sword in the lake?

Under the lake surface, the sword was visible to some degree but not out in the open where anyone who was just walking by would see it. Knowing that Harry would not know what he was being led to or why, The doe would lead specifically to that spot where the sword was visible.

meesha1971

December 10th, 2009, 9:04 pm

I believe you have to earn the sword every time you use it. Harry earned the sword back in COS sure, but it's obviously not permanent since the sword would work for any Gryffindor who exemplifies the proper traits in the time leading up to using the sword.

Dumbledore had proven his chivalry by putting the ring on and cursing his hand. It was foolish and reckless (as was Harry jumping into the lake) but it was all done in the quest to destroy the most dangerous dark lord of all time. Dumbledore could have delegated the horcrux quest to Harry right off (just like Harry notes in the Silver Doe chapter that his chivalry came from not asking Hermione to get the sword for him), but Dumbledore actually plans to seek and destroy all the horcruxes on his own, until his hand is cursed, his death is sealed and he has to pass the mission onto Harry.

So I don't think it's a plot hole.

Actually, Dumbledore put the ring on because he wanted to see his family and apologize to them. That was not "conditions of need and valor" because it was not necessary for him to put the ring on to destroy it. All he had to do was hit it with the sword. As he told Harry in Kings Cross, he should never have put the ring on. He forgot his mission when he had the ring because he realized he could use it to see his family again.

Dumbledore didn't do anything to prove himself to the sword. He just took it out of the case and used it to destroy the ring - which Phineas Nigellis confirmed when Harry and Hermione asked him about the sword in DH.

That's a fairly easy plot hole for them to fix though. They just have to remove the part where Dumbledore says the sword has to be taken under conditions of need and valor - diving into cold water to retrieve a valuable object didn't meet those conditions anyway. Mundungus Fletcher would have gone in after the sword as well. :lol: Remove that one line and there's no plot hole.

That does leave the question of why Snape would put it in a pool of water - or lake if that spoiler is accurate - but that's not too hard to work out. Snape can't just just walk up to Harry and hand him the sword after all. He has to set something up for Harry to find the sword and still make it difficult so nobody else would get it. I still think using a lake is taking that too far though.

As for the final duel, honestly, the films have always amped things up for the cinematic effect. This has been going on since the very first film where after Hagrid bends back Vernon's shotgun, Vernon shoots a round and it goes off into the roof...something I don't think is even possible. :lol:

This is just the nature of the films. After 7 films, I guess I'm kind of immune to it.

Actually, the first film downplayed Hagrid taking the gun from Vernon - in the book, Hagrid actually tied the barrel of the gun into a knot. I think he just bent it up in the film - but it's been a while since I watched it. They did add the gun firing though - and I agree that was weird.

It's not just a matter of amping things up for visual effect - if that was the only issue, I really wouldn't care. There's more to a film than just the visual effects. It still has to be believable in order for the scene to work. Just as Vernon's gun firing a shot into the ceiling after Hagrid bent it wasn't believable, neither is Harry and Voldemort having an extended duel. They can make it as pretty as they want and add a bunch of cool special effects and it still won't work because it won't be believable, IMO.

The western comment does sound hopeful. I could go either way on this, to be honest. It'd be nice if it stayed canon, but if it doesn't, it's not the worse thing they could do, IMO.

I like what Tom Felton said -

"It's kind of cool, because this is the first time we've had so many cast members on one set at one time, especially everyone from the evil camp and everyone from the good camp in a Western-style showdown — without revealing too much," said Felton, who plays the nefarious Draco Malfoy. "It's an amazing last scene, what we've shot of it so far. It's very exciting."

"I've rarely had an opportunity to work with the evil family," he said. "I'm working with Helena Bonham Carter, who's a lovely lady and also a completely scary witch when she wants to be. I'm enjoying working with adult cast tremendously."

I'm still hoping they keep the creative aspects of the battle - like McGonagall sending the suits of armor and desks out to fight and offensive herbology from Neville and Professor Sprout. I've been wanting to see that on film ever since I read the book!

MasterOfDeath

December 10th, 2009, 9:23 pm

lcbaseball22

December 10th, 2009, 9:27 pm

The worst thing that could happen to this story would be it if went all Transformers 2

Yes, my thoughts exactly...as I have said before. :) I think it'll be alright as long as there is variety to all the action, but Transformers 2 (while it was still a good film, IMO) is a perfect example of "more is not always better", "you can have too much of a good thing", etc ;)

I'm still hoping they keep the creative aspects of the battle - like McGonagall sending the suits of armor and desks out to fight and offensive herbology from Neville and Professor Sprout. I've been wanting to see that on film ever since I read the book!

Oh yes, definitely! :D

But I'm worried about this cause ironically the film series has had a tendency of making the magic in the film dull and boring at times if you ask me. I mean just look at how every spell basically has the same effect in the film series...and how repetitive Stupefy! was in OotP! :relax:

Yet, if dream_silently is legit the Snape vs. McGonagall duel sounds promising with the 4 elements being used...even if a bit different.

Would love to see those daggers flying at Snape though. :elaugh:

JR637

December 10th, 2009, 9:30 pm

Harry is still a 17 year old boy who didn't even attend his final year of school. Voldemort is a fully trained adult wizard who not only completed school, but also spent years studying and practicing the Dark Arts. There's just no way for them to present that as a believable scenario because there is no way that Harry could ever be a match for Voldemort under those conditions. McGonagall, Kingsley, and Slughorn were no match for him as a group - and they are all three more powerful and more skilled than Harry because they had more education and more experience.

It doesn't matter how great something looks if it is not believable, IMO. Pretty pictures and cool special effects won't compensate for an unbelievable scenario being presented. The audience won't be impressed because they won't believe it. It's like those old westerns where the hero loads his six-shooter and then kills 20 people without reloading. People are not impressed by things like that - they laugh at how ridiculous it is.

I think it would be more cinematic the way it was described in the book. The mounting tension, wondering if Harry could possibly survive again - and how he would do it, the two of them circling each other with taunts. That would be an epic, dramatic scene, IMO. Harry the super wizard is not epic or dramatic - it's just unbelievable, IMO.

I completely with you Meesha. The duel should be like it is in the book. I think that even if it was like the "duel" from GoF, it would be too much. I picture:

Basicly everyone stops and is in awe of 1 Harry being alive and 2 the showdown that is about happen. The crowd slowly forms into a large circle with Harry and LV facing each other down ala the wild west. Harry and LV hurl insults at each other, there is a long silence where the air stands still, then...LV casts AK and Harry casts ExP as was stated in the book.

I think this would be a cool way to do it becuase you will have all this crazy action from the battle with these fast cuts and flashes and bangs then when Harry and LV are about to duel we come to a crashing hault due to the enormity of what is about to take place. This is one of the biggest events in wizarding history happening before your eyes and hopefully Yates et all will be true to the way it was written by JKR.

-JR

MrSleepyHead

December 10th, 2009, 9:31 pm

But I still maintain that it's a poor interpretation to have someone Voldemort is torturing for information to have knowledge of the Hallows. I mean the end of the books we see Harry as the master of death because he has learned to face it full on and accept it. And whether that is because he possessed all 3 hallows or not, it is a meaningful. He accepts and understands what Voldemort doesn't.
I agree. To me, it does not make sense to have Ollivander be the one to summarize the rumors of the Deathly Hallows, considering he should, logically, have told the same information to Voldemort under torture.
If we need a reminder of the Hallows, I'd like to see Luna tell everyone. It would make sense for a father to pass down the knowledge of the quest to his daughter. Olivander while he knows a lot about wandlore, only can help Voldie so much. At the end of the story Harry is the one who knows all the sides of the story, which is what gives him knowledge and power over Voldemort.
This is an excellent idea. I think it would be much better to have the only information about the Hallows come from the quirky Lovegood family. To have Ollivander, a reliable source, verify the potential existence of these artifacts (i.e. saying "if it's true") makes Harry's quest for the Hallows much less intense, in my opinion.
I think Hermione would be skeptical about the Hallows regardless because the concept went against her logical view of things.
Agreed. However, for the film audience, having Ollivander support Xenophilius's claim takes away from Harry's search and obsession with the Hallows. I think the film should portray Harry's search for the Hallows as something completely illogical to everyone but him because he is convinced Dumbledore left the Quest to him. That way, the audience would see Harry as wasting his time, just like Ron and Hermione thought. However, to have a reliable source like Ollivander discuss the Hallows lessens that perception, in my opinion.
I would disagree because Dumbledore had already considered the possibility that Voldemort might have already known or would learn about the Hallows and didn't believe Voldemort would be interested in anything but the wand. I think he was right about that. The legend refers to the Master of Death, but mastering something is not the same as defeating or conquering it. The legend is presented in the story and none of the brothers conquered death - the first two brothers died terrible deaths and the third accepted death when he was an old man. The Invisibility cloak would not protect someone against the killing curse and Dumbledore and Grindelwald weren't really interested in it apart from wanting it to complete the set and maybe using it to hide Ariana. The resurrection stone only summoned the spirit of the dead - Dumbledore believed Grindelwald thought he could use it to create an army of Inferi, but Voldemort had already done that without the stone so he wouldn't have any reason to be interested in it.
I maintain that the legend surrounding the title "Master of Death" is not taken to mean "Acceptor of Death." We hear from two Questers that they thought "Master of Death" mean conqueror/vanquisher of Death and/or invincible. Why would Voldemort not be enthralled by that interpretation? Invincible Conqueror of Death?! That is what Voldemort has been seeking - a way to conquer death. Dumbledore simply tells Harry that Voldemort would not have been interested in the Hallows individually - he never mentions Voldemort being uninterested in the idea of being Master of Death.

Therefore, in the movie, if Ollivander knows about the Deathly Hallows and Master of Death, I would expect him to have told Voldemort when he was tortured. That is why I think it is a poor decision to use Ollivander to summarize the Deathly Hallows, since it leaves too much possibility of Voldemort knowing about them.
I don't think this is entirely true.

Ollivander knew about the Elder Wand at least, we know that much from the book. And do we know if he grew up in a wizarding family? Surely he would have had the bedtime story told to him as Ron did, right? It's just something he probably forgot about after his youth...but might be able to recall the myth if someone inquired about it. Anyways, it seems in the film they are taking the angle of him believing it only to be "RUMORED" so I think it's just fine. It's not so incredulous to think Ollivander wouldn't at least have heard of the idea...
I would expect Ollivander grew up in a Wizarding family, given the wandshop was "Ollivanders: Makers of Fine Wands since 382 B.C." However, just because Ollivander may have known the Tale of the Three Brothers does not mean he knew of the Deathly Hallows. Ron knew the story but did not know about the Hallows.

I do agree, though, that it will not be a disaster to have Ollivander discuss the Hallows, since he is basing it on rumors. I think it will work well, as long as I (nor the audience) do not think about the repercussions of Ollivander knowing the Hallows. I will not judge too harshly this decision right now, since I do not know how Harry's obsession with the Hallows will be portrayed, etc. At the least, using Ollivander makes for a very interesting trailer.

lcbaseball22

December 10th, 2009, 9:32 pm

I completely with you Meesha. The duel should be like it is in the book. I think that even if it was like the "duel" from GoF, it would be too much. I picture:

Basicly everyone stops and is in awe of 1 Harry being alive and 2 the showdown that is about happen. The crowd slowly forms into a large circle with Harry and LV facing each other down ala the wild west. Harry and LV hurl insults at each other, there is a long silence where the air stands still, then...LV casts AK and Harry casts ExP as was stated in the book.

I think this would be a cool way to do it becuase you will have all this crazy action from the battle with these fast cuts and flashes and bangs then when Harry and LV are about to duel we come to a crashing hault due to the enormity of what is about to take place. This is one of the biggest events in wizarding history happening before your eyes and hopefully Yates et all will be true to the way it was written by JKR.

-JR

Exactly! :agree:

Couldn't have said it better myself :) Anyways, I digress...if it's true they'll do what they want to do and nothing we say will change that :sigh:

DumbyOwnsYouAll

December 10th, 2009, 11:02 pm

I don't see why everyone is so freaked out over the recent announcement that the scene where Ron sees the Harry and Hermione Horcrux hallucinations will feature nekkid Daniel Radcliffe. Um, isn't there nothing more disturbing than seeing your best friend and the girl you love making a hot fudge sundae together? This is, after all, Ron's greatest fear. I, for one, don't really mind this bit of news. What I REALLY want to know, is...will we get nekkid Emma Watson? Hee hee hee...pardon my typical teenage-boy thinking.

HMN

December 10th, 2009, 11:36 pm

I don't think this is entirely true. :hmm:

Ollivander knew about the Elder Wand at least, we know that much from the book. And do we know if he grew up in a wizarding family? Surely he would have had the bedtime story told to him as Ron did, right? It's just something he probably forgot about after his youth...but might be able to recall the myth if someone inquired about it. Anyways, it seems in the film they are taking the angle of him believing it only to be "RUMORED" so I think it's just fine. It's not so incredulous to think Ollivander wouldn't at least have heard of the idea... :shrug:

And if the filmmakers feel the need to re-cap for the audience, it's a great way of doing it without being so blatant :tu:Given, I don't have my book with me so I can't check, but I remember it as Harry interviewing Ollivander at Shell Cottage, and asking him all sorts of questions about the wand and then ending it with something like , "I have just one more question, what do you know about the Deathly Hallows?" and Ollivander is like "Wha?" Ok, he didn't say that, but I'm pretty sure he had never heard the term. Meaning he didn't know of the quest. Meaning he couldn't have shared that information with Voldemort. It's one thing to know the children's story "The Tale of the Three Brothers" and another thing to know of the Deathly Hallows. Ron knew the story too, but didn't know anything for the quest to find Death's relics.

Edit to add: I didn't read Mr. Sleepy Head's post before I wrote all this - he pretty much said the same thing. :)

lcbaseball22

December 10th, 2009, 11:40 pm

Well, whatever. I don't think it's much of a stretch to believe they'd at some point hear of the myth associated with the story but just never thought anything of it and regarded as nothing but just that...a myth or rumor or whatever you wanna call it. It really doesn't matter... :shrug:

I can't think of any specific examples off the top of my head, but there are many bedtime stories that have myths associated with them.

Anyways, as an aside I'm going to watch Children of Men now to see what Yoshi is referring to. I'm not sure why we'd want Yates to imitate or copy that sequence...but perhaps after I see it I'll be swayed. :hmm: I'll be back in a few hours to say what I think of it in relation to DH :)

meesha1971

December 11th, 2009, 12:57 am

This discussion probably belongs more in the plot holes thread but I think Dumbledore putting the ring on would count. Why did he find the ring? Why was he in that shack in the first place? He was trying to bring down Voldemort. Why he put the ring on didn't matter. The only thing that matters is he was on a quest to destroy Voldemort and put on a cursed ring. Snape arranged the situation for Harry to jump into the lake. It wasn't necessary, he could have buried the sword in the snow or something. The reason why Dumbledore put the ring on doesn't matter. He put himself in harms and temptations way on his quest to save the world.

By all means bring it up in the plot hole thread - I'll watch for the post. :)

In terms of the film though, there are two contradictions presented in that scenario that the film can easily fix by simply removing the line about the sword having to be taken under conditions of valor and need. The first is that Dumbledore didn't do anything to prove himself. Putting on the ring didn't show valor - it showed the opposite actually because he completely forgot his mission because he became too focused on the possibility of being able to see his family. Nor was it a need because it was not necessary for him to put the ring on to destroy it. Dumbledore put himself in harms way for the chance to see his family again - not to destroy Voldemort.

However - ignoring the fact that he forgot his mission and put the ring on because he did realize his mistake - we could say that Dumbledore was able to just take the sword from the case and use it to destroy the ring because he did need the sword to accomplish that and the actual destruction of the ring could be viewed as valorous because the goal was to save the world from Voldemort. But that still creates a plot hole because the same thing would also be true for Harry. Like Dumbledore, Harry needs the sword to destroy the locket - as well as the other Horcruxes when he finds them - and, if merely destroying the ring was enough to meet the conditions of valor for Dumbledore, then the destruction of the four remaining Horcruxes would also meet the condition of valor for Harry as well.

Either way, the scenario with the sword in the water was not necessary for Harry to prove himself. It allows Ron to prove himself - and the scene works in that context. It's the set up with Dumbledore saying that Harry would have to prove himself that creates the plot hole. Removing that line in the film is an easy fix for that without changing the story.

In the book, Hagrid twists Vernon's gun and then tosses it aside which was believable since Hagrid is this extremely strong half-giant. I'm talking about how it wasn't realistic in the movie for the gun to go off and the bullet to go into the ceiling..

I was referring to Hagrid bending the gun instead of twisting it into a knot like he did in the book - the knot would have made a more interesting visual so I consider having him just bend the gun downplaying rather than amping it up.

But I agree about the gun firing a shot into the ceiling after Hagrid bent it - that is one aspect of the first film that I didn't like. Vernon's reaction is funny, but the scenario is not presented in a believable manner so it doesn't work very well. I think that would have worked much better if Hagrid had simply twisted the gun into a knot like he did in the book.

But anyway, we'll just have to see. Tom Felton's comment seems to reveal this dream guy to be a fraud.

I need to go back and look - do you recall what he said about the final battle overall? Not the part with Harry and Voldemort - the big battle with everyone. That's what Tom Felton was referring to.

Yes, my thoughts exactly...as I have said before. :) I think it'll be alright as long as there is variety to all the action, but Transformers 2 (while it was still a good film, IMO) is a perfect example of "more is not always better", "you can have too much of a good thing", etc ;)

Definitely. I think filmmakers sometimes rely way too much on special effects rather than presenting a good story.

Oh yes, definitely! :D

But I'm worried about this cause ironically the film series has had a tendency of making the magic in the film dull and boring at times if you ask me. I mean just look at how every spell basically has the same effect in the film series...and how repetitive Stupefy! was in OotP! :relax:

I worry about that too - for the same reason. That's also why I don't really buy the whole "they have to amp up the visuals" bit for Harry and Voldemort's duel. Most of the time they show all the spells having basically the same effect - throwing a person back on their butt. Jo used that description in the books for some things, but each spell had a very creative effect that would have been an amazing visual for the film. I've never understood why they didn't use those visuals because they were so much more interesting than someone getting thrown backwards all the time.

But there has been some improvement with the later films - Dumbledore and Voldemort's duel was an improvement in OOTP - though I still find it odd that they copied the effect from GOF when that was supposed to be a unique occurrence that shocked everyone. And the circle of flames that Dumbledore created in HBP so they could get away from the Inferi was awesome.

But that is the problem with trying to extend the duel between Harry and Voldemort. Harry can't do anything like that and it wouldn't be believable for him to suddenly know all this advanced magic. The spells that would be believable for Harry to know at that point in the story are the ones they typically use the generic "thrown backwards" effect for so I don't see that as being all that interesting visually or believable because none of that would be effective against Avada Kedavra and that's the only spell it would be believable for Voldemort to use. Voldemort was out to kill and Harry's only chance was to disarm him.

Yet, if dream_silently is legit the Snape vs. McGonagall duel sounds promising with the 4 elements being used...even if a bit different.

Would love to see those daggers flying at Snape though. :elaugh:

That does sound interesting - they could do quite a bit with the four elements that would make cool visuals. And, you know, flaming daggers would count for the element of fire. ;)

I completely with you Meesha. The duel should be like it is in the book. I think that even if it was like the "duel" from GoF, it would be too much. I picture:

Basicly everyone stops and is in awe of 1 Harry being alive and 2 the showdown that is about happen. The crowd slowly forms into a large circle with Harry and LV facing each other down ala the wild west. Harry and LV hurl insults at each other, there is a long silence where the air stands still, then...LV casts AK and Harry casts ExP as was stated in the book.

I think this would be a cool way to do it becuase you will have all this crazy action from the battle with these fast cuts and flashes and bangs then when Harry and LV are about to duel we come to a crashing hault due to the enormity of what is about to take place. This is one of the biggest events in wizarding history happening before your eyes and hopefully Yates et all will be true to the way it was written by JKR.

-JR

Exactly. :agree:

I agree. To me, it does not make sense to have Ollivander be the one to summarize the rumors of the Deathly Hallows, considering he should, logically, have told the same information to Voldemort under torture.

The question being - why would Ollivander tell Voldemort about rumors that he does not believe are true? The Elder wand was verifiable because it could be traced back through history. The cloak and the stone had no such evidence.

Voldemort's goal is specific - he wants a new wand that will overcome the issue of his and Harry's wands being "brother wands" and not working against each other properly. He tries to do that with Lucius' wand first, but that fails and Lucius' wand is broken. He tortures Ollivander and questions him specifically about wands so the information that Ollivander gives him would be related to wands. Interjecting information that Voldemort did not ask for and would not be interested in would only lead to more torture so I can't see why he would do that.

Agreed. However, for the film audience, having Ollivander support Xenophilius's claim takes away from Harry's search and obsession with the Hallows. I think the film should portray Harry's search for the Hallows as something completely illogical to everyone but him because he is convinced Dumbledore left the Quest to him. That way, the audience would see Harry as wasting his time, just like Ron and Hermione thought. However, to have a reliable source like Ollivander discuss the Hallows lessens that perception, in my opinion.

Harry's quest for the Hallows should be over by the time he asks Ollivander about them. That is most likely going to be in part 2 as a recap. The initial information about the Hallows with Harry becoming obsessed will most likely come from Xenophlius in part 1. Harry's obsession for the Hallows should end when the trio is captured and taken to Malfoy Manor. He asks Ollivander out of curiosity, but at that point, he was no longer interested in finding the Elder wand because he realized that Dumbledore never meant for him to have it. He already had the cloak and believed the stone was in the snitch.

I think having Ollivander recap that by discussing the rumors he heard will be a good way to end that aspect of the story and remind the audience of what happened in part 1 at the same time. Harry gets confirmation for what he had already figured out and Ron and Hermione realize that Harry wasn't completely off the mark - he was only wrong about the wand because Dumbledore never wanted him to have it.

I maintain that the legend surrounding the title "Master of Death" is not taken to mean "Acceptor of Death." We hear from two Questers that they thought "Master of Death" mean conqueror/vanquisher of Death and/or invincible. Why would Voldemort not be enthralled by that interpretation? Invincible Conqueror of Death?! That is what Voldemort has been seeking - a way to conquer death. Dumbledore simply tells Harry that Voldemort would not have been interested in the Hallows individually - he never mentions Voldemort being uninterested in the idea of being Master of Death.

Therefore, in the movie, if Ollivander knows about the Deathly Hallows and Master of Death, I would expect him to have told Voldemort when he was tortured. That is why I think it is a poor decision to use Ollivander to summarize the Deathly Hallows, since it leaves too much possibility of Voldemort knowing about them.

Because it was what each object did that was significant - and none of the objects actually did anything that would prolong a person's natural life or prevent them from dying at all, which was what Voldemort was trying to accomplish. The wand was purported to make one invincible - a very powerful wand that was unbeatable according to legend. That would interest Voldemort - particularly with his frustration over the problem of the brother wands - and he would see that as a means to further his reputation as the most powerful wizard in the world. But, while the wand would be useful for defense and possibly preventing him from being killed in a duel, it would do nothing to stop him from dying as an old man or being murdered by some other means should anyone be brave enough to attempt it. The cloak was merely a means to hide - which Voldemort could do quite well on his own without a cloak - and it would not prevent him from dying as an old man or protect him from spells that could kill him. The stone was a means to bring back the spirits of the dead - which would hold no interest for Voldemort at all and it wasn't useful for anything else. Like the wand and the cloak, the stone would not prevent him from dying of old age or protect him. Neither the cloak nor the stone was significant to being more powerful or invincible - that was all part of the legend of the wand.

Even Dumbledore and Grindelwald were more interested in the wand and the stone than the cloak. They only wanted the cloak to complete the set and maybe to hide Ariana. They discussed the wand and the stone in detail - the wand being so powerful and unbeatable appealed to both of them and the stone led Grindelwald to envisioning an army of Inferi. Voldemort didn't need a cloak to become invisible and he already had an army of Inferi without the stone so why would he want either the cloak or the stone? I agree with Dumbledore's assessment of that - Voldemort would only have been interested in the Elder wand because that was the only object among the three that could be perceived as making one invincible.

I do agree, though, that it will not be a disaster to have Ollivander discuss the Hallows, since he is basing it on rumors. I think it will work well, as long as I (nor the audience) do not think about the repercussions of Ollivander knowing the Hallows. I will not judge too harshly this decision right now, since I do not know how Harry's obsession with the Hallows will be portrayed, etc. At the least, using Ollivander makes for a very interesting trailer.

If they do it correctly, Harry's discussion with Ollivander will occur after he has buried Dobby - at which point he should be giving up his quest for the Hallows because he realizes that Dumbledore never wanted him to have the Elder wand. Harry asks Ollivander if he knows about them out of curiosity as well as being a bit concerned that Voldemort might attempt to go after them himself, but he finds out from Dumbledore in the end that it wouldn't have mattered because Voldemort would not have been interested in anything but the Elder wand.

And they could use Ollivander to explain that as well. Harry could ask him if he told Voldemort about the rumors of the Hallows and Ollivander could tell him that Voldemort was only interested in the wand.

decarus

December 11th, 2009, 2:22 am

What if they suggest that it is because of the connection that Harry is able to do crazy spells? Sort of like during the seven potters scene when Harry's wand spun in his hand and shot out golden flames. Then it would be sort of all Voldemort's spells being thrown back on him and not Harry knowing wicked hard magic that he couldn't possibly know.

Because the reason Harry's wand threw the golden flames is because Harry was dueling against Voldemort and Harry's wand shot magic that Voldemort's knew back against him. That is what they could say would be happening in the final duel between them.

I actually really like the just one spell apiece as it was in the book, but i could understand why they would think that might not work in the film.

Wimsey

December 11th, 2009, 2:25 am

I maintain that the legend surrounding the title "Master of Death" is not taken to mean "Acceptor of Death." That is pretty much what Dumbledore tells Harry. Like so many things in Potterverse, it is ironic: it is not master as in "to master a dog" but master as in "to master emotions". Dumbledore and Grindelwald did not get it when they were young, but the older, wiser Dumbledore did understand this. (That, of course, allows Rowling to explain it to us, just in case we had not worked it out for ourselves...)

One of the big aspects of the story is how Harry comes to comprehend what "Greater Good" really means, and how death fits into that: and, again, this ironically saves his life. However, Harry's initial interpretation of the Hallows was closer to what seems to have been the "obvious" one: some sort of immortality or something related to it, in that Harry considered that it might somehow be a "solution" to the Horcruxes.
I do agree, though, that it will not be a disaster to have Ollivander discuss the Hallows, since he is basing it on rumors.No, it will not be a disaster. The information needs to be communicated to the audience: in this case, the source really is not that important. The story is how Harry handles the information.

To that end, I would stress that the audience should empathize with the protagonist, not with the side-kicks. If done properly, then we should think that Harry is on the right track: and if possible, we should feel that HeRon are "obsessed" with the Horcruxes. This will be tricky to do, and it might not be possible: but the story is about Harry's choices, and thus the motivations behind those choices are the story's fuel.

On the plus side, it is good that they have the basics for a teaser trailer already done. For a November release, we should be seeing a teaser-trailer in February or March, and proper trailers in May with the first wave of summer films. Test screenings should happen in April or so. You'll recall last time that production was so far behind that they did not even get test-screenings or teaser trailers done until August. So, things are looking up.

lcbaseball22

December 11th, 2009, 2:57 am

Ok, so I've just finished watching it I gotta say I don't really want the Battle of Hogwarts filmed in the manner that the war sequence was in the aforementioned :shrug: I mean, it was quite unique and thrilling...but I think I prefer the traditional style where the characters are actually involved in the battle, not just running through it. Plus, I'd like to see everyone get their moments to shine that they did in the book, such as all the professors doing their part. But yeah, I guess I wouldn't mind if some of the Battle of Hogwarts was done Children of Men style :p

Honestly though, I don't think that style would really fit for DH and I think it would be severely limiting the variety and uniqueness that makes the Battle in the book so great. It should be the likes of nothing ever seen before in the history of cinema and it should be EPIC :cool:

JR637

December 11th, 2009, 3:18 am

thefirestorm

December 11th, 2009, 5:11 am

Tom Felton has stated that Deathly Hallows filming will now go forth until June 2010.

This better not push back the release date again.
Does anyone think it will?

9th_Wonder

December 11th, 2009, 5:46 am

Tom Felton has stated that Deathly Hallows filming will now go forth until June 2010.

This better not push back the release date again.
Does anyone think it will?

I hope it doesn't push back the release date. That dream_silently guy said they have filmed 90% of part 1. If this is true, filming for part 1 will probably wrap up sometime in the next couple of months.

lcbaseball22

December 11th, 2009, 6:21 am

http://www.harrypotterforum.com/comments.php?DiscussionID=1083&page=1#Item_0

Ha, looks like the fake script leaks have begun. :lol: I could be wrong, but I think some dude is just posing as the real wild_world...cause the username is a bit different and the account was just created a few hours ago. Anyways, take a look for yourself. I'm calling this fake though

We are IMMERSED in PULSATING DARKNESS. We here screams of agony -- snatches of Death Eater attacks form VAGUELY in smoke then dissolve to OBSCURITY.

We hear Dumbledore's distant screams -- KILL ME! -- Harry and Dumbledore stagger out the cave as STRANDS of smoke and the image fades as...an eerie light PULSES closer -- rumbles distantly as it approaches. It's faintly green.

It FRAMES the WB Logo as we track through: finding Snape on the tower, LIGHT from his KILLING CURSE blazing, the rumble maginfied now -- Dumbledore careens once more over the edge -- the SKULL drags itself from the clouds -- MOUTH wide, dark, inviting we drift through it --

INTERNAL LIGHTNING resolves into --

1 INT. MINISTRY OF MAGIC-ATRIUM-NIGHT

A sea of FLARING CAMERAS.

RUFUS SCRIMGEOUR stands proud before an ONSLAUGHT of JOURNALISTS. RITA SKEETER regards the MINISTER OF MAGIC sardonically, QUICK QUOTES QUILL poised.

RITA SKEETER
How do you intend to combat the situation Minister?

SCRIMGEOUR
Dumbledore's death is of course a devastating loss but I believe if the Wizarding community pull together we can to overcome the Dark Lord. I warn against underestimating the current danger. The Death Eaters and their forces are a very real threat. Only together can we defeat them.

Rita is unceremoniously swallowed by a sea of surging photographers. FLASHBULBS blaze around Scrimgeour. He regards them QUIZZICALLY then departs.

2 EXT. HOGSMEADE-NIGHT

A vortex of JET BLACK CLOUDS writhes over the village and distant HOGWARTS CASTLE. A crowd of FROZEN VILLAGERS watch...enchanted by prickling ambience -- a hawkish man (ABERFORTH DUMBLEDORE) watches with deep TREPIDITION -- an unearthly roar swells as -- BLACK STREAKS ROCKET through the village. Fire rains in all directions.

CHAOS! Villagers run in all directions. DEATH EATERS appear and blast them away. With a wave of his arm Aberforth sends a hulking Death Eater flying then disappears into the night. ARMS of flame enclose the village and the Death Eaters turn their attention towards Hogwarts.

3 EXT. HOGWARTS-VARIOUS-NIGHT

Black streaks CAREEN through the defenses and in moments the whole castle is CRAWLING with Death Eaters -- jagged cracks of light illuminate the courtyards and bridges as security is swiftly eliminated.

The Death Eaters are everywhere -- taking over the walls. The MAIN GATE CONTORTS and explodes -- a horrifying wail of metal as more Death Eaters flood into the grounds.

BLAZING SKULLS appear over the towers they have taken control of. A solitary jet of black flies to the --

4 EXT. HOGWARTS-ASTRONOMY TOWER-SAME TIME

And forms into -- SEVERUS SNAPE. He looks out over the castle, watching the Death Eaters progress. He directs his own skull into the sky. All around victorious cheers can be heard. Then:

MCGONAGALL
Do not move Snape.

MINERVA MCGONAGALL directs her wand at Snape. He does not turn but smiles.

SNAPE
Good evening Minerva. Come to witness the fireworks?

MCGONAGALL
I should have known I'd find you here of all places.

Snape turns to her. She keeps her wand level.

SNAPE
What do you intend to do? Murder me like I murdered Dumbledore?

MCGONAGALL
Perhaps. You Death Eaters are unwelcome within these walls.

SNAPE
I'd never have guessed. And yet nothing can repel us like the power of Dumbledore. The power which died with him when I blasted him from this spot.

MCGONAGALL
Then so it is with you.

She moves to attack but just then -- WHAM! Death Eaters grab her from the shadows. She thrashes but can't get free.

SNAPE
Don't kill her. I want to watch her suffer under the Dark Lord's rule.

They drag her away. Her protests slowly die. Snape looks out over the castle again, now PATROLLED by Death Eaters. Far in the distance DEMENTORS swarm over the FROSTING lake and WITHERING TREES of the FOREST. A smile of PURE SATISFACTION plays across his face.

FYI, for those that don't know there was a legit guy with the username of wild_world1 or some derivation of that who leaked script for HBP.

Now it's possible he's returned to give scripts for another film, like Phoenix did with first OotP and then HBP, but I'm highly sceptical. :relax:

MasterOfDeath

December 11th, 2009, 6:35 am

That script is horrible...the dialog is atrocious. It doesn't feel like Kloves at all.

I'm calling it an absolute fake too.

BTW: I wouldn't worry about a delay for DH1 because of the new filming wrap date. They are filming both parts one and two at once remember. I think they are pretty much finished with part one at this point. I think they will be focusing on part two entirely for the new year.

oierem

December 11th, 2009, 8:19 am

meesha1971

December 11th, 2009, 10:50 am

I think this would be too hard for the audience to follow. If they start going into details about wands and connections and jacked up spells, people will get lost, then bored. This movie is going to appeal to the masses not the minorities (us posters) so the major themes will probably be somewhat streamlined.

-JR

I agree. The split allows for them to include more, but I don't think they are going to bog the film down with a lot of exposition. Exposition is always very tricky because it can get boring - particularly if it's confusing and difficult to follow. I think it would work best for them to keep that simple and stick with the book rather than attempting to make Harry appear to be more skilled than he actually is.

http://www.harrypotterforum.com/comments.php?DiscussionID=1083&page=1#Item_0

Ha, looks like the fake script leaks have begun. :lol: I could be wrong, but I think some dude is just posing as the real wild_world...cause the username is a bit different and the account was just created a few hours ago. Anyways, take a look for yourself. I'm calling this fake though

We are IMMERSED in PULSATING DARKNESS. We here screams of agony -- snatches of Death Eater attacks form VAGUELY in smoke then dissolve to OBSCURITY.

We hear Dumbledore's distant screams -- KILL ME! -- Harry and Dumbledore stagger out the cave as STRANDS of smoke and the image fades as...an eerie light PULSES closer -- rumbles distantly as it approaches. It's faintly green.

It FRAMES the WB Logo as we track through: finding Snape on the tower, LIGHT from his KILLING CURSE blazing, the rumble maginfied now -- Dumbledore careens once more over the edge -- the SKULL drags itself from the clouds -- MOUTH wide, dark, inviting we drift through it --

INTERNAL LIGHTNING resolves into --

1 INT. MINISTRY OF MAGIC-ATRIUM-NIGHT

A sea of FLARING CAMERAS.

RUFUS SCRIMGEOUR stands proud before an ONSLAUGHT of JOURNALISTS. RITA SKEETER regards the MINISTER OF MAGIC sardonically, QUICK QUOTES QUILL poised.

RITA SKEETER
How do you intend to combat the situation Minister?

SCRIMGEOUR
Dumbledore's death is of course a devastating loss but I believe if the Wizarding community pull together we can to overcome the Dark Lord. I warn against underestimating the current danger. The Death Eaters and their forces are a very real threat. Only together can we defeat them.

Rita is unceremoniously swallowed by a sea of surging photographers. FLASHBULBS blaze around Scrimgeour. He regards them QUIZZICALLY then departs.

2 EXT. HOGSMEADE-NIGHT

A vortex of JET BLACK CLOUDS writhes over the village and distant HOGWARTS CASTLE. A crowd of FROZEN VILLAGERS watch...enchanted by prickling ambience -- a hawkish man (ABERFORTH DUMBLEDORE) watches with deep TREPIDITION -- an unearthly roar swells as -- BLACK STREAKS ROCKET through the village. Fire rains in all directions.

CHAOS! Villagers run in all directions. DEATH EATERS appear and blast them away. With a wave of his arm Aberforth sends a hulking Death Eater flying then disappears into the night. ARMS of flame enclose the village and the Death Eaters turn their attention towards Hogwarts.

3 EXT. HOGWARTS-VARIOUS-NIGHT

Black streaks CAREEN through the defenses and in moments the whole castle is CRAWLING with Death Eaters -- jagged cracks of light illuminate the courtyards and bridges as security is swiftly eliminated.

The Death Eaters are everywhere -- taking over the walls. The MAIN GATE CONTORTS and explodes -- a horrifying wail of metal as more Death Eaters flood into the grounds.

BLAZING SKULLS appear over the towers they have taken control of. A solitary jet of black flies to the --

4 EXT. HOGWARTS-ASTRONOMY TOWER-SAME TIME

And forms into -- SEVERUS SNAPE. He looks out over the castle, watching the Death Eaters progress. He directs his own skull into the sky. All around victorious cheers can be heard. Then:

MCGONAGALL
Do not move Snape.

MINERVA MCGONAGALL directs her wand at Snape. He does not turn but smiles.

SNAPE
Good evening Minerva. Come to witness the fireworks?

MCGONAGALL
I should have known I'd find you here of all places.

Snape turns to her. She keeps her wand level.

SNAPE
What do you intend to do? Murder me like I murdered Dumbledore?

MCGONAGALL
Perhaps. You Death Eaters are unwelcome within these walls.

SNAPE
I'd never have guessed. And yet nothing can repel us like the power of Dumbledore. The power which died with him when I blasted him from this spot.

MCGONAGALL
Then so it is with you.

She moves to attack but just then -- WHAM! Death Eaters grab her from the shadows. She thrashes but can't get free.

SNAPE
Don't kill her. I want to watch her suffer under the Dark Lord's rule.

They drag her away. Her protests slowly die. Snape looks out over the castle again, now PATROLLED by Death Eaters. Far in the distance DEMENTORS swarm over the FROSTING lake and WITHERING TREES of the FOREST. A smile of PURE SATISFACTION plays across his face.

FYI, for those that don't know there was a legit guy with the username of wild_world1 or some derivation of that who leaked script for HBP.

Now it's possible he's returned to give scripts for another film, like Phoenix did with first OotP and then HBP, but I'm highly sceptical. :relax:

Wow - there's a lot of purple prose in that script - pulsating darkness, a vortex of jet black clouds, a sea of flaring cameras. That doesn't seem to match Kloves style so I'd say it's a fake as well. It reads as though that person went through the spoilers and expanded on them.

BTW: I wouldn't worry about a delay for DH1 because of the new filming wrap date. They are filming both parts one and two at once remember. I think they are pretty much finished with part one at this point. I think they will be focusing on part two entirely for the new year.

I agree. It seems there were some scheduling conflicts that meant they had to film some of part 2 while they were filming part 1, but I think they were focusing more on part 1. If I'm not mistaken, the schedule called for them to be filming part 2 while part 1 was in post production anyway so I don't think extending the filming schedule would change anything for part 1.

JR637

December 11th, 2009, 2:29 pm

Fury

December 11th, 2009, 3:13 pm

I've read some scripts in my time, and that is definitely fake. You can tell right off. That Dumbledore "Kill me" would be seperate, like:

ALBUS DUMBLEDORE
(off-screen)
Kill Me!

Or something like that.

katana

December 11th, 2009, 5:07 pm

It's not the same though. I don't expect the spells from their wands to lock for what seemed like eternity in GoF. It's not really priori incantatem in DH, is it? :hmm: Anyways, I really disagree. I don't think there needs to be any more than what was in the book for this. I have seen plenty of tense scenes that are nothing more than "a battle of words" to know this can work just as well on screen as in the book :)
No it's not the same, but I just wonder if the audience will see one spell from each wand, they connect and then LV's rebounds and hits & kills him and the audience will be like....'the biggest battle we've waited for and that was it?' I just wonder what they're thinking for all the non book fans in the audience that don't know how the 'duel' happened. On the other hand, with all the other dueling and battling going on with the 'Battle for Hogwarts' will it already be too much and they'll actually stick to the book 'duel'. I don't know. I'm thinking I could take it either way. If the expand on the battle between LV and Harry, I'd be fine with it. If they don't and leave it exactly like the book, I'd be fine with it too.

Yes, my thoughts exactly...as I have said before. :) I think it'll be alright as long as there is variety to all the action, but Transformers 2 (while it was still a good film, IMO) is a perfect example of "more is not always better", "you can have too much of a good thing", etc ;)
That is true. I liked all the action in T2:RoTF, but there was one point during the battle in the desert (on my 3rd home viewing :D) when I was like....good grief that's a lot of explosions. And on top of that, I hope Harry's King's Cross 'afterlife' scene doesn't turn out to be like the "afterlife" that Sam Witwicky encountered with all the Primes. The only thing I liked about that scene was that Sam learns he has some kind of connection to Optimus. But I didn't like the scene overall. It was just too bizarre.

http://www.harrypotterforum.com/comments.php?DiscussionID=1083&page=1#Item_0
That does sound weird, but I wouldn't know much about scripts. Dream_Silently came back in the comments and posted that this guy is fake :lol:. I wish he'd post more in that spoiler thread.

Jack5555

December 11th, 2009, 7:30 pm

Yeah that is a fake script. I would be highly disappointed if it was real.

Bscorp

December 11th, 2009, 7:37 pm

Yeah that is a fake script. I would be highly disappointed if it was real.

Um.... PULSATING DARKNESS ???? :lol: That is a horrible script. I wonder if people post things just to get feedback on their bad writing.

DHredefinesEPIC

December 11th, 2009, 7:39 pm

This guy is a fake (not Icbaseball22, wildworld.)

http://www.harrypotterforum.com/comments.php?DiscussionID=1083&page=1#Item_0

Death Eaters grab her from the shadows. She thrashes but can't get free.That would have to be alot of Death Eaters :lol:

A smile of PURE SATISFACTION plays across his face.

I don't think Snape would like the DE's invading any more than Draco did in HBP

MasterOfDeath

Tom Felton's comment seems to reveal this dream guy to be a fraud.

How?:hmm:

Bscorp

December 11th, 2009, 10:30 pm

How?:hmm:

Apparently Dream said filming was about 90% done while Felton that shooting has been extended into June. I don't know how someone from the art dept would have any grasp on how much is left to shoot anyway. Seems to me that most of the art work is planned out after the general script / story is planned and before the filiming. The art dept comes may have some work to do on the sets though.

I don't see the two statements as necessarily canceling each other out. Schedules are extended for various reasons. It could be that someone who hasn't gone on set yet had to be delayed, it could be a hold up in the post-production schedule (voice work, etc.) No one can foresee when shooting schedules are extended if the decision is made late in the game.

I'm not doubting "Dream" though, he may have been just guesstimating on the schedule. :relax:

boushh

December 11th, 2009, 10:56 pm

One thing that is interesting is that dream_silently gave the impression that there would be more shown about what is going on at Hogwarts, and more with Snape. I was at an event where Alan Rickman was at earlier this week and he mentioned that he would be shooting a scene with 300 hundred kids. That can only mean seeing him at Hogwarts, perhaps at the opening feast. So that is something that goes well with what dream was saying... Unless they combine the Charity scene and Hogwarts stuff by having her killed in front of the students... That's an intense thought... hmm.

There is a video up now... actually three of them (http://vimeo.com/user717645) are up now.

lcbaseball22

December 12th, 2009, 12:32 am

Apparently Dream said filming was about 90% done while Felton that shooting has been extended into June. I don't know how someone from the art dept would have any grasp on how much is left to shoot anyway. Seems to me that most of the art work is planned out after the general script / story is planned and before the filiming. The art dept comes may have some work to do on the sets though.

I don't see the two statements as necessarily canceling each other out. Schedules are extended for various reasons. It could be that someone who hasn't gone on set yet had to be delayed, it could be a hold up in the post-production schedule (voice work, etc.) No one can foresee when shooting schedules are extended if the decision is made late in the game.

I'm not doubting "Dream" though, he may have been just guesstimating on the schedule. :relax:

Yeah, except if I'm not mistaken he said they were 90% done with PART 1. I get the impression that they've mainly focused on Part 1 and only have a few bits of Part 2 filmed so far. I think dream said they were done with the Malfoy Manor and Shell Cottage scenes but that's it for Part 2. And they'd supposedly been working on the Battle for over 4 weeks but this wasn't more than 20% of it. So I don't know... :hmm:

Sounds like they've still got vast amounts of footage to film and much of it is the huge action set pieces like such as the Ministry and Grintgott's sequences...which I imagine will take almost as much time to film as the huge Battle as the end. It's hard to say though...

One thing that is interesting is that dream_silently gave the impression that there would be more shown about what is going on at Hogwarts, and more with Snape. I was at an event where Alan Rickman was at earlier this week and he mentioned that he would be shooting a scene with 300 hundred kids. That can only mean seeing him at Hogwarts, perhaps at the opening feast. So that is something that goes well with what dream was saying... Unless they combine the Charity scene and Hogwarts stuff by having her killed in front of the students... That's an intense thought... hmm.

There is a video up now... actually three of them (http://vimeo.com/user717645) are up now.

Hmm, that's interesting. Yeah, this could further validate him :)

phoenix88

December 12th, 2009, 2:48 am

[QUOTE=katana;5467482]No it's not the same, but I just wonder if the audience will see one spell from each wand, they connect and then LV's rebounds and hits & kills him and the audience will be like....'the biggest battle we've waited for and that was it?' I just wonder what they're thinking for all the non book fans in the audience that don't know how the 'duel' happened.

Yes, that's what I was thinking too. The nonreading fans don't have the background information that we do. Since this is supposed to be the showdown they have been waiting for since the first film, they are going to expect something bigger than the GoF duel. If all they see is the wands connecting, one spell, and Voldemort dying with one blast they may be very disappointed at least from an effects perspective. Ultimately, though, I am fine with whatever they do too.

That is true. I liked all the action in T2:RoTF, but there was one point during the battle in the desert (on my 3rd home viewing :D) when I was like....good grief that's a lot of explosions.

Yes, I completely agree with you on that too. I enjoyed T2, but just like you, at one point I was thinking..wow how many more explosions can there possibly be?:lol:

So happy dream_silently is back!

DHredefinesEPIC

December 12th, 2009, 5:41 am

So happy dream_silently is back!

I wrote to him as Itrustdream_silently
asking details on Malfoy Manor, the spinching scene, Greyback, and The Silver Doe.
Awaiting his reply...

HPFanNewbie

December 12th, 2009, 10:02 pm

Hey everyone, I am new around here and just watched HBP this week. I was very upset about the lack of inphasis on explaining the background of what objects Voldemort would hide his horcruxes in. The way I think they might get the background info settled in the next movie might be through the penseive. Maybe Dumbledoor will have left the penseive and the memories to Harry in his will as well. What other theories are out there?

decarus

December 13th, 2009, 12:24 am

I have considered that possibility as well, but i do think it is more likely they will show Harry seeing flashes into Voldemort's mind. Though a lot of the horcruxes could be natural progression of thing as it was in the book. They look for the locket because they know what that one is and realize that Umbridge took it from Mundungus and go looking for it in the Ministry. I think they could then have Bellatrix mention the cup while she is torturing Hermione at Malfoy Manor trying to see if they had been in her vault.

I think then things will then go as in the book where Harry will see a flash of Voldemort's thoughts as he realizes that they are searching for horcruxes and will see Hogwarts or even the Room of Hidden Things in Voldemort's mind as he thinks about where each horcrux is hidden. The trio will then go directly there realizing that one horcrux was somemthing of Slytherin's and the second was something of Hufflepuff's and realize the third might be likewise one of the four founders.

Ginny could go with Harry to the Ravenclaw tower and see the statue with the diadem and remember it from the Room of Hidden Things and go with Harry to retrieve it. Then after Snape dies harry looks at his memories and realizes that Dumbledore told Snape to kill the snake and realize that is the final horcrux and tell Neville to kill the snake in passing to the forest though i am not sure if Film Dumbledore guessed at what the horcruxes were. They could also just have Voldemort think of the snake when Harry is seeing into his mind after Voldemort realizes that the trio is hunting horcruxes.

I think that there is a nature progression of finding the horcruxes. I do like how in the book the horcruxes are sprinkled throughout the books, but they didn't know the importance at the time because all of the books weren't finished.

DA93

December 13th, 2009, 12:35 am

I have considered that possibility as well, but i do think it is more likely they will show Harry seeing flashes into Voldemort's mind. Though a lot of the horcruxes could be natural progression of thing as it was in the book. They look for the locket because they know what that one is and realize that Umbridge took it from Mundungus and go looking for it in the Ministry. I think they could then have Bellatrix mention the cup while she is torturing Hermione at Malfoy Manor trying to see if they had been in her vault.

That sound really good. When Bellatrix is torturing Hermione, she says like "How did you get into the vault to steal the sword and the cup?!". Ron and Hermione won't think more about what she says about the cup, but Harry realizes it ;)

Ginny could go with Harry to the Ravenclaw tower and see the statue with the diadem and remember it from the Room of Hidden Things and go with Harry to retrieve it. Then after Snape dies harry looks at his memories and realizes that Dumbledore told Snape to kill the snake and realize that is the final horcrux and tell Neville to kill the snake in passing to the forest though i am not sure if Film Dumbledore guessed at what the horcruxes were. They could also just have Voldemort think of the snake when Harry is seeing into his mind after Voldemort realizes that the trio is hunting horcruxes.

Even though i would like Luna to go with Harry, Ginny would be just as good :p It was a flashback that showed Nagini in HBP when Harry touched the ring, but he won't propably think about that...

decarus

December 13th, 2009, 12:46 am

Even though i would like Luna to go with Harry, Ginny would be just as good :p It was a flashback that showed Nagini in HBP when Harry touched the ring, but he won't probably think about that...

The reason Harry saw that flashes when he touched the ring is because Harry himself is a horcrux and so he saw the snake which is also a horcrux. The thing is Harry doesn't know that until after he sees Snape's memories. I think that they could leave knowing about the snake till the end and have Harry tell Neville though then only one would know about it, but Neville would take care of it quickly so that is alright.

I did like Luna going to the tower as well. She may go also since she is a Ravenclaw, but i could imagine Ginny being there too, so she could remember the diadem from the Room of Hidden Things.

Bscorp

December 13th, 2009, 2:23 am

YES!!!! :rockon:

Yes Alan Rickman does say "I have got a scene coming up talking to 300 kids..." But he hasn't shot anything with Danial yet. So there it is they will be showing a speech by Headmaster Snape That is good news. Can you imaging Snape yelling Silence like Dumbledore did in the first movie- or would he even need to?:lol:

Honeyducks

December 13th, 2009, 3:27 am

I have been refreshing the harrypotterforum website over and over again.. I cant wait for dream_silently's answers! Im really going mad!

lcbaseball22

December 13th, 2009, 4:14 am

I have been refreshing the harrypotterforum website over and over again.. I cant wait for dream_silently's answers! Im really going mad!

:lol:

I'm not sure if this has been posted yet but I thought this was sorta an interesting interview with Felton. He mentions some stuff about DH

http://www.snitchseeker.com/harry-potter-news/videos-tom-felton-injured-harry-final-deathly-hallows-scenes-more-69583/

What was the last scene you shot before coming to New York?

Tom Felton: I can’t reveal too much, or I’ll get myself in trouble, but I can say that we’ve been shooting some of the very last scenes from the very last film. Though we’re not going to be able to see it for another two years, which is crazy. But it’s very moving, because this is what we’ve been working toward for the last 10 years. Daniel [Radcliffe] is the figurehead of the series, so when we see him battered and abused and scarred [while in character] on set, you get all emotional.

Sounds good to me :cool:

What do you know about this “sexy” dream seqeuence between Harry Potter and Hermione (that takes place in Ron’s imagination) that director David Yates has referred to?

Tom Felton: I’ve seen some pretty horrific… no, I’m kidding. I haven’t seen any pictures — usually they do artist’s impressions to show us, but I haven’t seen anything yet. I haven’t talked to Dan about it, actually. I may have to have a word. I’m sure it will be awkward for them.

The one thing to keep in mind is that [the Potter series] are adult books. Half the characters die by the end, and often in grisly ways. Teenagers are about sex, drugs and rock & roll, and David’s very keen to keep the films true to what these kids would be going through in real life; he’s not censoring anything that doesn’t need to be censored. The idea of this alluring Hermione is great, because [the character] is so unalluring; it’ll be great to switch it up. And I can’t say exactly, but I look forward to what happens.

Not sure about borrowing Yate's "sex, drugs, and rock & roll" phrase :lol:...and a shame Tom didn't know but liked what he said otherwise :tu:

Midknight

December 13th, 2009, 7:50 am

lcbaseball22

December 13th, 2009, 12:20 pm

As many of us already know there is supposed to be a "nude dream sequence" involving Harry and Hermione in one of the Deathly Hallows instalments. As I understand it this sequence is supposed to occur as Ron and Harry are trying to destroy the locket. From what I have read on other sites, this scene is the source of much controversy. Many believe that this is a very inappropriate direction for the film to take and many are concerned that this is just one of many scenes that will push the film to an R rating. I personally feel that there is no way that the film will be rated R, I am sure that WB are aware that many fans of the films are children. As for the scene, if it is done properly, I think it could be very powerful.

I was just wondering what those of you in the mugglenet community think of this scene and what potential repercussions may occur with its addition.

For those of you who are hearing this for the first time the link is posted bellow:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/harry-potter/6747004/Very-sexy-nude-scene-for-Harry-Potter-in-new-film.html

If you go back a few pages (or maybe more than that) you'll find that it's been discussed ad nauseam. Personally I wouldn't have any issues cause...well, as Tom Felton said in the quote above, we have to keep in mind that these are indeed "adult books" (from GoF on at least) ;)

However, as much as I'd love to see Emma nude I don't expect there will be anything risque enough to push it to R. :lol: Implied at most... :shrug:

FYI, here's just a couple of my previous posts on the matter-

http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=5463257&postcount=1437
http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=5463266&postcount=1440

Anyways, in more recent news...

http://www.snitchseeker.com/harry-potter-news/david-heyman-deathly-hallows-final-battle-scenes-rooted-characters-involved-69631/

“Ultimately, what makes these books work, what I love about the books, is that for all the spectacle, for all the adventure, (there are) the characters.” Part I will be “the road movie” with the young stars on the run, Heyman says. The final battle comes in Part II. “And what we are trying to do in this final battle, as much as we can, is root it in characters! For me, it’s really all about the characters and it’s about the people who are battling and, if you’re invested in that, that is what will make it work!”

I think I like the sound of that but I'm not sure :lol: What is meant by the battle being "rooted in the characters?" :hmm: Does this mean we get to see a lot of the characters fighting...like pretty much the complete opposite of Yoshi's Children of Men suggestion? If so, I'm all for it :p

mjhaners

December 13th, 2009, 12:21 pm

I personally think that if they handled it correctly and artistically then there really isn't any problem with it. The media- as always- is only blowing this news out of proportion.

Midknight

December 13th, 2009, 7:17 pm

Hahah...ya I realised as soon as I posted that, that there probably had been a lengthy discussion in the thousands of posts on this thread. I guess I just didn't look hard enough :lol:

DHredefinesEPIC

December 13th, 2009, 7:22 pm

I wrote to him as Itrustdream_silently
asking details on Malfoy Manor, the spinching scene, Greyback, and The Silver Doe.
Awaiting his reply...

1. You said "Bellatrix does slightly a bit more to Hermione" What does that mean? What does she do? Please tell me!
2. Oh also in the Deathly Hallows trailer when Hermione has the blood on her hands do you know whether she's putting up defensive spells or if she is surrendering to someone off-screen?
3. You mentioned Greyback fighting Lupin-twice, threatening Tonks, attacking Katie Bell and Bill and Ginny Weasley but does he attack Lavender Brown like in the book?
4. Lastly, does Hermione go mad and punch ron alot when he comes back like in chapter 19?
Thanks again

1. She's torturing her. Way too much.
2. Yes she's putting defensive spells around the place until they help Ron recover.
3. Lavender Brown? Yes. But it hasn't been filmed yet. As I've told you they will be shooting battle sequences until next Spring. The sets are numerous.
4. She doesn't punch him exactly but she's very angry yes.

He also said Emma returns on set next week too.

Infinity9999x

December 13th, 2009, 9:09 pm

many are concerned that this is just one of many scenes that will push the film to an R rating. I personally feel that there is no way that the film will be rated R, I am sure that WB are aware that many fans of the films are children. As for the scene, if it is done properly, I think it could be very powerful.

I agree with you. It's ludicrous to even entertain the thought that DH will be rated R. And the biggest reason is this: WB is a business, and they want to make as much money as possible. Plain and simple.

Pg-13 movies make much more money than R-rated movies. And WB is not going to allow anything to happen to the one movie that has the best chance of toppling Titanic's Box Office record.

Also, I agree that it could be very powerful, and I'm sure it will be done tastefully.

Carlynm79

December 13th, 2009, 11:23 pm

SwedishSkinJer

December 13th, 2009, 11:53 pm

Okay, since we are discussing how the Deathly Hallows films should be made according to what is established in the sixth movie, I would *love* to see "In Noctem" appear more prominently during one scene in Deathly Hallows, since this brilliant composition was sadly removed from HBP. Here's my idea:

"In Noctem" starts playing after Snape is attacked by Nagini and begins to slowly die. When he takes Harry and asks for him to look into his eyes, we hear "In Noctem" slowly rising as the camera pans away from his body until it almost becomes a lament in the background. Wouldn't that make the scene an absolute tear-jerker?

lcbaseball22

December 14th, 2009, 5:18 am

I agree. I believe that WB will take into consideration that there will be ALOT of children there with parents. They will want to make as much money as possible and the only way is to allow younger audience in.

I'm not sure what you are considering "alot" but as seen in the previous posts "children" are really no longer important to HP's box office ;)

DH is an adult book and based on increasing age trends of the last 3 I'll guess DH's audience will be 70% 18+, 25% teens, and 5% "children"

But it's a moot point cause I doubt WB would even consider pushing to R...and if they did those under 18 would still find a way to see it. :p

BTW, I was pondering the budget for this (2 Part) film after I noticed how outrageous the budget for HBP was.

I'll copy over the discussion from that other thread and see if you guys perhaps have anything to add...

God, I can't even begin to imagine what the budget for DH is gonna be! :lol:

Hmm, maybe $600 million combined (300 for each half)? :whistle: Well, whatever it is...no doubt it's gonna set the record for the most expensive production to date! Just 1 Part alone probably will do that.

It might be less because they are filming all at once. I would think that would help them cut back on costs somehow, but maybe not what do i know. If anything they wouldn't have to rebuild sets, but then again a lot of the Harry Potter sets have been around since the beginning at least the ones at the school, the great hall, the common room. Though on Part 1 all the sets were either on location or somewhere new that they hadn't been before.

Maybe, except think about all the special effects that Deathly Hallows is going to require.

But if we're gonna talk DH budget we should take the discussion to that thread. ;) The intent of my post was to ask if anyone knew about Half-Blood Prince, I was merely pondering DH...

meesha1971

December 14th, 2009, 12:16 pm

I agree. I believe that WB will take into consideration that there will be ALOT of children there with parents. They will want to make as much money as possible and the only way is to allow younger audience in.

I'd say that's pretty much a guarantee. The target audience has always been the 9-12 age range - even for the books. What's so amazing about Harry Potter is that, even though it was targeted at a younger age range, the appeal wasn't limited to that age range. They're not specifically adult books, but they're not specifically children's books either. It was always something that that transcended age and gender that parents could enjoy along with their kids. The movies have always been marketed as family films and I don't see that changing. Every HP film I've seen in the theater has had mostly families in the audience. Even the midnight showing for OOTP was predominantly younger teenagers between 12 and 15 - including my own kids. :lol: I really don't see that changing for DH.

It's interesting how much attention this has gotten. GOF also had a scene where Harry was naked and Moaning Myrtle chased him around the tub - with the implication that she had been spying on him prior to him getting in the water and that she did that a lot with guys using the prefect's bath. Nobody really said anything about that - even when we got the first pics showing Dan heading down to the bath in his robe.

I really doubt we'll see anything more in DH than we did in GOF. The nudity will most likely be implied without anything specific being shown. I've never been worried about that. My only concern is that this scene won't be as creepy and frightening as it should be. This was not a romantic or sexy moment - it was disturbing and scary. That's what needs to come across in the film, IMO.

lcbaseball22

December 14th, 2009, 1:57 pm

I'd say that's pretty much a guarantee. The target audience has always been the 9-12 age range - even for the books. What's so amazing about Harry Potter is that, even though it was targeted at a younger age range, the appeal wasn't limited to that age range. They're not specifically adult books, but they're not specifically children's books either. It was always something that that transcended age and gender that parents could enjoy along with their kids. The movies have always been marketed as family films and I don't see that changing. Every HP film I've seen in the theater has had mostly families in the audience. Even the midnight showing for OOTP was predominantly younger teenagers between 12 and 15 - including my own kids. :lol: I really don't see that changing for DH.

:huh:

As I just posted recently...

This doesn't fit with exit poll statistics. As the books/films moved into more mature territory it's clearly been reflected in older audiences.

I really doubt we'll see anything more in DH than we did in GOF. The nudity will most likely be implied without anything specific being shown. I've never been worried about that. My only concern is that this scene won't be as creepy and frightening as it should be. This was not a romantic or sexy moment - it was disturbing and scary. That's what needs to come across in the film, IMO.

While I agree it should be creepy and frightening...why can't it be both? I've seen movie moments that are romantic/sexy yet creepy... :shrug:

So did nobody have anything to say about those articles...such as the meaning of David Heyman's comments about the Battle of Hogwarts?

Pearl_Took

December 14th, 2009, 2:21 pm

While I agree it should be creepy and frightening...why can't it be both? I've seen movie moments that are romantic/sexy yet creepy... :shrug:

I know what you mean. Ron's Horcrux-induced vision of Harry/Hermione snogging should be both eerie and creepily sensual ... indeed, it's hard to see how it could avoid being both. The Locket Horcrux is tormenting Ron by playing on his deep-seated insecurity (which includes sexual insecurity -- he fears losing his girl to his best friend. Not that this is based in any kind of reality, but the Horcrux is a liar!)

So did nobody have anything to say about those articles...such as the meaning of David Heyman's comments about the Battle of Hogwarts?

His comments were interesting and, to my mind, hopeful. :cool: 'Rooted in characters' is exactly how Rowling writes it: HP is character-driven and that is reflected in how she writes the Battle of Hogwarts.

Noldus

December 14th, 2009, 2:25 pm

This doesn't fit with exit poll statistics. As the books/films moved into more mature territory it's clearly been reflected in older audiences.

That's true, but HP attracts all sorts of people, both young and old people. Everyone like Potter, you know ;) When they promote the film it wouldn't make sense to ignore the kids.

So did nobody have anything to say about those articles...such as the meaning of David Heyman's comments about the Battle of Hogwarts?

I doubt there was any deeper meaning behind those words. Heyman often use to say it's about characters and that's what matters rather than huge action scenes and the magic itself. It might just be empty words to assure us that they are faithful to our beloved characters.

Camzy18

December 14th, 2009, 2:37 pm

http://tinypic.com/r/24b9ma8/6

^What part is this? I can't seem to remember :whistle:

meesha1971

December 14th, 2009, 3:38 pm

:huh:

As I just posted recently...

This doesn't fit with exit poll statistics. As the books/films moved into more mature territory it's clearly been reflected in older audiences.

I can only go by my own experience - in which case, the audience has always been filled with a significant number of children of all ages. Of course, there would be showings at certain times where there would be fewer younger children present because families are more likely to attend a matinee showing, but that doesn't remove children watching the films from the equation and that doesn't preclude the fact that these films have always been marketed as family entertainment. They've always strived to keep the films within the PG - PG-13 range and I don't see them changing that now because it is a series and all the films are connected in that they are telling a single story in 8 parts. They aren't going to lock out a significant portion of the fan base with the final movie, IMO. Anyone who can watch PS/SS will also be able to watch DH - that's just good business sense, IMO.

While I agree it should be creepy and frightening...why can't it be both? I've seen movie moments that are romantic/sexy yet creepy... :shrug:

Creepy and frightening is never romantic, sensual, or sexy, IMO. There's nothing romantic or sensual about the locket tormenting Ron or him nearly becoming possessed by it. It's a very psychologically disturbing moment with the ghostly figures emanating from the locket clearly being evil and that's what we should see in the film, IMO.

So did nobody have anything to say about those articles...such as the meaning of David Heyman's comments about the Battle of Hogwarts?

Harry Potter has always been a character driven story so I would hope that they would focus on the characters in DH as well. Of course, they don't always get the characterization right in the films so I'll take Heyman's comments with a grain of salt until I actually see the film. In general, I would hope that what he means is that the reasons behind the battle will be part of the focus - why they're there willing to die fighting to stop Voldemort, the motivations, etc...

That's true, but HP attracts all sorts of people, both young and old people. Everyone like Potter, you know ;) When they promote the film it wouldn't make sense to ignore the kids.

Exactly. :agree:

We see that with the promotion as well. Much of that is geared towards families and the younger generation. The marathons on ABC family with sneak peaks, having the actors appear on shows predominantly watched by the younger generation - i.e. TRL, articles about the movie featured in magazines geared towards kids like Nickelodeon and Disney, etc... I really don't see them changing any of that now.

http://tinypic.com/r/24b9ma8/6

^What part is this? I can't seem to remember :whistle:

That is right after they escape from the Ministry after getting the locket from Umbridge. Ron was badly splinched when they apparated to that spot and Hermione is putting protective spells around them.

Camzy18

December 14th, 2009, 3:40 pm

^ooh right, thanks! man I have a bad memory xD

Pearl_Took

December 14th, 2009, 4:11 pm

Creepy and frightening is never romantic, sensual, or sexy, IMO.

I would say that various treatments of the Dracula legend would indicate otherwise. :)

There's nothing romantic or sensual about the locket tormenting Ron or him nearly becoming possessed by it. It's a very psychologically disturbing moment with the ghostly figures emanating from the locket clearly being evil and that's what we should see in the film, IMO.

Yes, but the point is that the Locket is tormenting Ron with a darkly disturbing sensual scenario, i.e. his best friend and girlfriend betraying him with each other. It's not just that Horcrux!Harry and Hermione are creepy in appearance: the real horror for Ron is that they are entwined round each other in a romantic embrace, and sneering at him for having lost in love. That is what is psychologically disturbing: and very effective it is too. Obviously the red eyes add to the creepiness -- but personally I think that if you leave out the sensual content, you've lost the emotional punch of the scene. JMO.

Of course I think any nudity would be completely gratuitous (and I don't believe for one minute the film-makers will do this :lol: )

Hes

December 14th, 2009, 4:22 pm

I guess it's just a matter of taste, some find it sensual others don't. It's not a cold hard fact.

Personally I am interesting in how they will do it, but nudity to me is not a necessity.

9th_Wonder

December 14th, 2009, 8:23 pm

http://tinypic.com/r/24b9ma8/6

^What part is this? I can't seem to remember :whistle:

When the trio dissaparate to the forest after the ministry heist. Ron splinches his arm, hence the blood on Hermione's hands. In the photo she is casting protective spells.

edit: Ah I didn't see that meesha already answered lol

katana

December 14th, 2009, 8:50 pm

Well, it seems dream_silently posted in the 'spoiler' thread again, commenting on how 'sexual' the horcrux scene is, and something about DD & LV:

Guys the Horcrux vision is not as sexual as it seems. It's going to be sexual but nothing shocking. No worries.
Though Dan has shot the scene, Emma has to film her bit too.

Well they haven't filmed the forest scene yet. I don't know anything about it at all. But the artwork is beautiful. As I told you, the forest sets are different.

Yes Alan Rickman has started shooting bits of his Hogwarts scenes.

Yes you'll see Dumbledore's dead body and Voldemort going to take his wand.

http://www.harrypotterforum.com/comments.php?DiscussionID=1072&page=5

Why would Emma and Dan film that scene seperately? (if it's true?)

mjhaners

December 14th, 2009, 9:15 pm

Maybe its because of the visual effect that they would be adding to it? Since dream said that it would look 'smoky' or something. But even so shouldn't they film together esp if they kiss? Or would they film that later on?

lcbaseball22

December 14th, 2009, 9:45 pm

I know what you mean. Ron's Horcrux-induced vision of Harry/Hermione snogging should be both eerie and creepily sensual ... indeed, it's hard to see how it could avoid being both. The Locket Horcrux is tormenting Ron by playing on his deep-seated insecurity (which includes sexual insecurity -- he fears losing his girl to his best friend. Not that this is based in any kind of reality, but the Horcrux is a liar!)

Exactly :agree:

His comments were interesting and, to my mind, hopeful. :cool: 'Rooted in characters' is exactly how Rowling writes it: HP is character-driven and that is reflected in how she writes the Battle of Hogwarts.

Hmm, I was hoping it meant there's a focus on the characters (and the trio specifically) fighting. I guess we'll have to wait to hear more.

With the Battle of Hogwarts I'd really like to see them make up for the lack of kids fighting in OotP and the omission of HBP's "skirmish".

I can only go by my own experience - in which case, the audience has always been filled with a significant number of children of all ages. Of course, there would be showings at certain times where there would be fewer younger children present because families are more likely to attend a matinee showing, but that doesn't remove children watching the films from the equation and that doesn't preclude the fact that these films have always been marketed as family entertainment. They've always strived to keep the films within the PG - PG-13 range and I don't see them changing that now because it is a series and all the films are connected in that they are telling a single story in 8 parts. They aren't going to lock out a significant portion of the fan base with the final movie, IMO. Anyone who can watch PS/SS will also be able to watch DH - that's just good business sense, IMO

Well as I said, "children" are hardly a significant portion anymore. They maybe accounted for 15 million MAX of the 300 million that HBP brought in domestically. Now there is still a significant portion of teens though, so yes I don't see it being rated R as much as I wish it so.

And for the record, my own experience has been quite different. There was a few idiot parents that brought annoying kids to OotP that freaked out and cried but I didn't notice anyone under like the age of 10 at HBP and the vast majority were older teens/college students.

We see that with the promotion as well. Much of that is geared towards families and the younger generation. The marathons on ABC family with sneak peaks, having the actors appear on shows predominantly watched by the younger generation - i.e. TRL, articles about the movie featured in magazines geared towards kids like Nickelodeon and Disney, etc... I really don't see them changing any of that now.

I would say this is just a case of them not acknowledging who their true audience is. There are some teens, but the ones who grew up reading these books and have stayed loyal to the franchise are predominately in their 20's nowadays. Now I'm sure the series gained a following of new kids as the movies exposed more people to it...but even the majority of them are in their teens by now. I'd say there are very few "children" that have just jumped into the series recently. Hopefully HBP's demographics have made the filmmakers realize this. :)

I would say that various treatments of the Dracula legend would indicate otherwise. :)

Yes, that's an excellent example :tu:

Well, it seems dream_silently posted in the 'spoiler' thread again, commenting on how 'sexual' the horcrux scene is, and something about DD & LV:

Guys the Horcrux vision is not as sexual as it seems. It's going to be sexual but nothing shocking. No worries.
Though Dan has shot the scene, Emma has to film her bit too.

Well they haven't filmed the forest scene yet. I don't know anything about it at all. But the artwork is beautiful. As I told you, the forest sets are different.

Yes Alan Rickman has started shooting bits of his Hogwarts scenes.

Yes you'll see Dumbledore's dead body and Voldemort going to take his wand.

http://www.harrypotterforum.com/comments.php?DiscussionID=1072&page=5

Why would Emma and Dan film that scene seperately? (if it's true?)

I saw that. I don't understand how they could film it seperately if they have to kiss and whatever else for that scene :hmm:

SiriusBlack101

December 14th, 2009, 11:54 pm

LordThingy

December 15th, 2009, 12:22 am

Perhaps they're filming the dialogue bits separately, but will have Dan and Emma together to film the kiss? It seems easier to just film everything together at once, but I'm sure there are scheduling conflicts with Emma starting college here in the States.

emma will have a month off for christmas... so she'll probably do a lot of filming then, if she isn't already back. Since the scene is really smoky then I think they could film their parts seperately and then digitally put them together without it looking odd.

meesha1971

December 15th, 2009, 1:15 am

I would say that various treatments of the Dracula legend would indicate otherwise. :)

I would have to disagree because I consider every Dracula film I have seen a horror movie because they were all creepy and frightening without anything remotely romantic, sensual, or sexy, IMO. A guy with fangs that is attempting to drain all the blood from your body is scary - not sexy, IMO.

Of course, I realize that there are those who don't care what the purpose of the scene is and only focus on whether or not Dracula is cute, but that doesn't make the scene itself sexy for me - it just makes me think that those particular people would be among the first to die if vampires actually existed. ;)

I would compare that to Angel on BtVS. Angel with his soul is sensual and sexy - he's not trying to kill anyone and fights with Buffy against the bad guys. Angel without a soul becomes Angelus - a vicious and cruel monster who will not only kill you, but torture you in the process. There's nothing remotely sensual or alluring about Angelus and Buffy has no interest in him. She wants Angel back.

Yes, but the point is that the Locket is tormenting Ron with a darkly disturbing sensual scenario, i.e. his best friend and girlfriend betraying him with each other. It's not just that Horcrux!Harry and Hermione are creepy in appearance: the real horror for Ron is that they are entwined round each other in a romantic embrace, and sneering at him for having lost in love. That is what is psychologically disturbing: and very effective it is too. Obviously the red eyes add to the creepiness -- but personally I think that if you leave out the sensual content, you've lost the emotional punch of the scene. JMO.

That is precisely why there is nothing even remotely romantic or sensual about that scene, IMO. It was a means of torture and the figures used are creepy and disturbing rather than sexual. The locket twists Ron's fears - which he had already acknowledged that he always knew in his head were irrational - and turns them into something that is horrific and frightening. The primary focus of all of that was Ron's fear that his mother didn't love him because she really wanted a daughter and had kept trying until she got one. Secondary to that was the fear that his mother loved Harry more and would have preferred that he was her son instead of Ron. Those were the big issues and the fear that Hermione might prefer Harry was the least of his fears - the last presented and the one that was easiest for Ron to ignore so he could destroy the locket. It was the fear that Molly didn't love him and only had him in her attempts to get a daughter and would prefer Harry as a son instead that he couldn't ignore - the fear that he couldn't be entirely sure wasn't valid to some extent or other because Molly was more protective of Ginny and often did seem to forget Ron in the chaos - forgetting that he didn't like corned beef, always giving him maroon sweaters even though he hated that color, giving extra attention to Harry, etc... As a parent, I can see Molly's side of it and know that wasn't the case, but I can also see where those things would make Ron wonder and worry about it - and why the locket would focus on Ron's mother and the possibility that she didn't love him because that was the bigger fear for him. I think the locket used frightening and horrific images of Harry and Hermione because they were there - potential targets for it to make Ron lash out at if it succeeded in possessing him.

Of course I think any nudity would be completely gratuitous (and I don't believe for one minute the film-makers will do this :lol: )

On this we agree. There's no need for them to have any actual nudity. That's not going to add anything to the story overall or the scene itself. Even if they do try to make the scene sexy instead of the disturbing and frightening moment it should be, they wouldn't need to show nudity to accomplish that, IMO. Really, that would only detract from the scene. A lot of horror movies make that mistake. I recently watched a remake of Night of the Living Dead with my teenage son and they added a scene where this one girl was running around naked and the zombies got her because she was stupid and tried to hide in a truck without making sure all the windows were closed. It wasn't sexy and it wasn't scary. It was ridiculous and we were laughing the whole time. It detracted from the scene to have her running around naked and made it a parody rather than the horror movie it was supposed to be.

Well, it seems dream_silently posted in the 'spoiler' thread again, commenting on how 'sexual' the horcrux scene is, and something about DD & LV:

Guys the Horcrux vision is not as sexual as it seems. It's going to be sexual but nothing shocking. No worries.
Though Dan has shot the scene, Emma has to film her bit too.

Well they haven't filmed the forest scene yet. I don't know anything about it at all. But the artwork is beautiful. As I told you, the forest sets are different.

Yes Alan Rickman has started shooting bits of his Hogwarts scenes.

Yes you'll see Dumbledore's dead body and Voldemort going to take his wand.

http://www.harrypotterforum.com/comments.php?DiscussionID=1072&page=5

Why would Emma and Dan film that scene seperately? (if it's true?)

Well, Emma is only in that scene as a disturbing, smoky image created by the locket - Hermione was not actually present for the destruction of the locket. Dan has to do both because the real Harry is there to see the disturbing, smoky image of himself created by the locket. My guess would be that the disturbing, smoky images will be completely computer generated.

Dan and Rupert would have to film the "live" part of that scene together because Harry and Ron are both physically present with Harry opening the locket for Ron to destroy it. Dan and Emma wouldn't have to film anything together for that because the actions of the smoky images will be created by the computer. They would only need data to use for that so both Dan and Emma could go in separately to wear the sensors to input that into the computer. The computer will do everything else.

Hmm, I was hoping it meant there's a focus on the characters (and the trio specifically) fighting. I guess we'll have to wait to hear more.

With the Battle of Hogwarts I'd really like to see them make up for the lack of kids fighting in OotP and the omission of HBP's "skirmish".

Well, that would be a focus on the fighting rather than the characters, IMO. Focusing on the characters would delve into why they are fighting, motivations, how each character is effected by what is happening, etc...

I think we will get the fighting as well, but I take this comment to mean that it's not just going to be a mindless action sequence, but rather that it will have more depth.

Of course, whether or not that's actually what we get is still up in the air - what they say and what they actually do don't always go hand in hand.

Well as I said, "children" are hardly a significant portion anymore. They maybe accounted for 15 million MAX of the 300 million that HBP brought in domestically. Now there is still a significant portion of teens though, so yes I don't see it being rated R as much as I wish it so.

Well, I am including teens in that - I'm a parent so when I say "children", I'm usually referring to anyone under the age of 18. :lol: As I said before, there were a significant number of children of various ages - I'd guess 6 through 15 or so - present for all six of the HP movies that I saw in the theater. Even in HBP at least 50% of the audience was kids under the age of 18 - again, a fairly wide range from around 6 to about 15 or so. Apart from the teenage girls sitting next to me in OOTP who seemed to be incapable of not talking and giggling for more than five minutes at a time and POA in general where nobody in the audience really liked the film and either got up to leave or talked through it, I've never seen any issues with the younger children watching the film - they usually love it. And you also have to factor in - and I'm sure that they do - that many of the adult viewers are parents who are either taking their children to see it or screening it to make sure it's okay for their kids to see - which would typically involve a second viewing where they take their kids to see it. Not to mention aunts and uncles taking their nieces and nephews and grandparents taking their grandchildren, etc... So I would say that families are a significant portion of the audience.

In any case, there is no need for these films to be R rated. There isn't anything within the story itself that would warrant an R rating, IMO. Even with the addition of the locket scene, there are only two occasions where Harry would be naked - both of which will be easy for them to cover with the surrounding foliage or smoky mist so the nudity can be implied rather than gratuitous. There are two scenes involving blood - neither of which need to focus on the blood itself and can be handled similarly to Sectumsempra in HBP. Everything else is magic involving fantasy elements that give them more maneuverability.

I think shoving unnecessary, gratuitous material in the film to garner an R rating would only detract from the story - like the girl running around naked in the remake of Night of the Living Dead. The quality of the film is not determined by the rating - there are garbage films rated R just as there are garbage films with other ratings.

I saw that. I don't understand how they could film it seperately if they have to kiss and whatever else for that scene :hmm:

Sounds like that aspect of the scene will be computer generated so Dan and Emma will just need to go in and do some stuff with the sensors to input that data into the computer - facial mapping, body movement, etc... The computer will put it all together.

lcbaseball22

December 15th, 2009, 1:28 am

You know, I'm interested to see which films WB decides to place the trailers with cause for HBP they put one of 'em with Watchmen (a hard R superhero film, potentially NC-17 if we're talking a few years ago) which is again a reflection of the increased age of the HP audience :cool:

For instance which of these 3 is most likely I wonder... :hmm:

Percy Jackson- athough it's being made by a rival company it's trailer was before HBP so I suppose it's possible the reverse could be true this time around. To me it looks like a sorta rip-off of Harry Potter (basing this purely on the trailer I saw) but something that will be rated PG

Clash of the Titans- don't know much about this but it looks to be a PG-13 fantasy CGI fest

Jonah Hex- looks to be another "graphic novel" adaptation in a similar style to the afrorementioned Watchmen. Probably another hard R

Speaking of trailers, what would and wouldn't you like to see?

For instance would you like a glimpse of this horcrux scene we've been discussing so much? :lol: Personally I think it's something I would like to remain a visual secret until I see the film. But if it doesn't, at least the ideas floating around about it could be laid to rest...or not ;) :p

decarus

December 15th, 2009, 1:37 am

I bet they will show the locket scene in the trailers just because they always show all of the action and that will be visual and not talking. Though in DH there is a lot of action to chose from.

JustMeWayne

December 15th, 2009, 1:51 am

I always thought that the reason why HBP had lots of love scenes was because WB wanted to draw some of the twilight crowd to watch Harry Potter.
Im not sure when a theatrical trailer will be released, but maybe one of the trailers will feature more on the emotional side of DH, and they might screen in before twilight(movie 3 in June), and try to draw twilight crowds to DH.
btw, twilight 2(newmoon) is out now, and twilight 3 is scheduled during summer2010, so when will twilight 4 be out?
i am quite sure if twilight AND harry potter are screened during the same month/season, there will be intense rivalry =P
and since DH1 is scheduled during nov2010 and DH2 july2011, will there be a "clash" with twilight4?

lcbaseball22

December 15th, 2009, 1:55 am

I bet they will show the locket scene in the trailers just because they always show all of the action and that will be visual and not talking. Though in DH there is a lot of action to chose from.

I almost wanna stay away from any footage for Deathly Hallows just cause it's the most cinematic book and it should be a real visual treat. I mean I know everything that happens in the story naturally but I wouldn't mind being unspoiled in regards to how it will all look on screen...

But who am I kidding...I've already watched the sneak peek/teaser trailer and I bet I'll end up watching everything to come as well :lol: :shrug:

decarus

December 15th, 2009, 2:21 am

I know i will watch everything that comes out. I can't wait for some more footage or photos and i bet it is going to be a long wait before we get anything else.

JR637

December 15th, 2009, 4:54 am

katana

December 15th, 2009, 5:47 am

I almost wanna stay away from any footage for Deathly Hallows just cause it's the most cinematic book and it should be a real visual treat. I mean I know everything that happens in the story naturally but I wouldn't mind being unspoiled in regards to how it will all look on screen...
I totally want to say the same thing, but I know I'll never be able to do it! I mean, this sneak peek we got wasn't much and I was more excited for it than I was for any of the HBP stuff (and I loved all of the HBP stuff!). I can't imagine how I'll be when more starts to surface for DH!

Pearl_Took

December 15th, 2009, 10:02 am

I would have to disagree because I consider every Dracula film I have seen a horror movie because they were all creepy and frightening without anything remotely romantic, sensual, or sexy, IMO. A guy with fangs that is attempting to drain all the blood from your body is scary - not sexy, IMO.

The vampire as an erotic figure is pretty well established in both literature and film-making, IMO. :whistle: But I digress. :blush:

That is precisely why there is nothing even remotely romantic or sensual about that scene, IMO. It was a means of torture and the figures used are creepy and disturbing rather than sexual. The locket twists Ron's fears - which he had already acknowledged that he always knew in his head were irrational - and turns them into something that is horrific and frightening.

Yes, and what he is being tormented with is the nightmarish vision of his two best friends romantically entwined and sneering at him for being a loser in love. IMO.

The primary focus of all of that was Ron's fear that his mother didn't love him because she really wanted a daughter and had kept trying until she got one.

I'm not denying that can be extrapolated from elsewhere in the text, but the scene makes no mention of Ron's mother. The primary focus of the Horcrux is Harry/Hermione. That Ron would fear Harry taking Hermione from him is very plausible given the pressure the Trio are under, and Ron's natural insecurities.

Secondary to that was the fear that his mother loved Harry more and would have preferred that he was her son instead of Ron.

I agree that this is a plausible interpretation which can be extrapolated elsewhere from the canon.

Those were the big issues and the fear that Hermione might prefer Harry was the least of his fears - the last presented and the one that was easiest for Ron to ignore so he could destroy the locket.

I see this scene totally differently. :) Ron is already on edge because of the danger and tension of being on the run/in hiding. The natural tensions betweeen the Trio are exploited by the Horcrux Locket. Horcrux!Harry/Hermione therefore represent Ron's worst fears and insecurities, IMO, exaggerated and distorted to nightmarish proportions by the Locket. The text shows a mighty battle within him: when he destroyed the Locket, thus symbolically smashing his insecurities, I was cheering him on!

Even if they do try to make the scene sexy instead of the disturbing and frightening moment it should be, they wouldn't need to show nudity to accomplish that, IMO. Really, that would only detract from the scene.

Absolutely -- and I really don't think they would do that anyway, because of the rating and the demographic they want to reach. They are not going to change this demographic for the final two films, that would be extremely daft. They want as big an audience as possible!

Parents should just know better than to take small children to a HP film. :rolleyes:

I think we will get the fighting as well, but I take this comment to mean that it's not just going to be a mindless action sequence, but rather that it will have more depth.

That's how I took Heyman's comments too. :tu:

meesha1971

December 15th, 2009, 11:31 am

The vampire as an erotic figure is pretty well established in both literature and film-making, IMO. :whistle: But I digress. :blush:

Vampire lore has always been a favorite of mine in films and literature - ever since I read Dracula. I have a morbid fascination with horror. :lol:

I have never seen any book or film present an evil vampire as an erotic figure though. Evil, frightening, and disturbing - but not erotic. I've seen good vampires presented as erotic figures - but they put a lot of emphasis on the "I don't kill human's" aspect to make that work.

Yes, and what he is being tormented with is the nightmarish vision of his two best friends romantically entwined and sneering at him for being a loser in love. IMO.

I'm not denying that can be extrapolated from elsewhere in the text, but the scene makes no mention of Ron's mother. The primary focus of the Horcrux is Harry/Hermione. That Ron would fear Harry taking Hermione from him is very plausible given the pressure the Trio are under, and Ron's natural insecurities.

I agree that this is a plausible interpretation which can be extrapolated elsewhere from the canon.

Nightmarish would be an appropriate description for that scene - evil, disturbing, frightening - nothing remotely sensual or sexy about any of that.

The focus was primarily on Molly and Ron's fear of being second best and overshadowed - particularly by Harry - that was in the scene itself. Least loved by the mother who craved a daughter ... Your mother confessed that she would prefer me as a son ... We laughed at your stupidity, your cowardice, your presumption ... Who could look at you, who would ever look at you, beside Harry Potter? What have you ever done, compared with the Chosen One? What are you, compared with the Boy Who Lived?

The idea that his mother didn't love him and he was just a stepping stone on her path to having a daughter - the idea that his mother would prefer to have Harry as a son - the idea that anyone would prefer Harry over him period - those were the major issues. Hermione is part of that, but not in the sense that Ron actually feared she would be interested in Harry - it was more that he couldn't understand why she wouldn't be interested in Harry instead of him. But he did know - in his head at least - that part of what the locket was saying was a lie and that's where he is able to regain control and destroy it.

I see this scene totally differently. :) Ron is already on edge because of the danger and tension of being on the run/in hiding. The natural tensions betweeen the Trio are exploited by the Horcrux Locket. Horcrux!Harry/Hermione therefore represent Ron's worst fears and insecurities, IMO, exaggerated and distorted to nightmarish proportions by the Locket. The text shows a mighty battle within him: when he destroyed the Locket, thus symbolically smashing his insecurities, I was cheering him on!

So was I actually - very big moment for Ron to overcome that disturbing and nightmarish vision telling him how much his mother did not love him and how much better Harry was than him. :tu:

But it stood out for me that Ron was not able to overcome that until the locket presented the one fear that he knew was irrational and wrong - Hermione being interested in Harry - and that enabled him to accept that all of it was irrational and wrong. That didn't detract from Ron's achievement for me - I saw it as a means of him being able to use what he knew was he was wrong about as proof that he was wrong about all of it so it was still his triumph in the end.

But there wasn't anything sensual or sexy about it - evil is never sensual or sexy, IMO.

Absolutely -- and I really don't think they would do that anyway, because of the rating and the demographic they want to reach. They are not going to change this demographic for the final two films, that would be extremely daft. They want as big an audience as possible!

Agreed. :agree:

Parents should just know better than to take small children to a HP film. :rolleyes:

Well, I took my 8 year old to see HBP - he absolutely loved it and was enthralled the whole time. Even the love scenes didn't bore him - he was laughing. Though I doubt he was laughing for the same reasons I was. :lol: He did start to doze off just before the cave scene, but he woke up when he realized where they were - I discussed the ending with him in advance because he really likes Dumbledore. I gave him the choice of whether he still wanted to see it or not and he did so we took him.

I also took him to see GOF when he was four and OOTP when he was 6 - he loves both of those too. GOF tends to be the one he wants to watch most often on DVD - it has a dragon! :lol:

I think that kind of thing really depends on the child and most parents have a pretty good idea what their kids can handle. Most of the time when kids are crying in a movie, it's not the movie - it's that they're hungry or tired. That's bad timing on the parents part - always feed your child first and make sure you attend a showing that fits with their schedule. And find seats at the end of the aisle so you don't have to crawl over people to take them to the bathroom. Makes things so much easier. ;)

Of course, that's presuming they took the child by intention - we took our oldest to see Dracula when he was two because our babysitter fell through at the last minute and we already had the tickets. He actually liked the movie though - though he did fall asleep before it was over - he seems to have picked up my morbid love of horror films. :lol:

That's how I took Heyman's comments too. :tu:

Nice to know we can agree on some things. :)

Pearl_Took

December 15th, 2009, 12:10 pm

Meesha, I'm an idiot. I had actually forgotten that the scene does mention Ron's relationship with his mother, as your quotes prove. :yuhup:

The idea that his mother didn't love him and he was just a stepping stone on her path to having a daughter - the idea that his mother would prefer to have Harry as a son - the idea that anyone would prefer Harry over him period - those were the major issues. Hermione is part of that, but not in the sense that Ron actually feared she would be interested in Harry - it was more that he couldn't understand why she wouldn't be interested in Harry instead of him.

OK, yes, I agree with all of that. :)

But there wasn't anything sensual or sexy about it - evil is never sensual or sexy, IMO.

We'll just have to agree to disagree on this. :) Evil, as portrayed in literature (I am not referring to anything in real life) is often portrayed as both seductive and sensual. And I do think that the Horcrux torments Ron with a distorted romantic image (his fear that he will lose his girl to Harry, as he fears being second-best to Harry, as his mother's adopted son) as the symbol of Ron's deepest fears. But I take on board that other elements were factoring in as well.

Well, I took my 8 year old to see HBP - he absolutely loved it and was enthralled the whole time. Even the love scenes didn't bore him - he was laughing. Though I doubt he was laughing for the same reasons I was. :lol: He did start to doze off just before the cave scene, but he woke up when he realized where they were - I discussed the ending with him in advance because he really likes Dumbledore. I gave him the choice of whether he still wanted to see it or not and he did so we took him.

Sorry, I wasn't aiming my remark at anyone here with slightly older kids. :blush: I've never forgotten, though, the parents who sat behind me during Goblet of Fire with their five year old: the little girl started crying loudly during the graveyard scene, saying that she didn't like it.

But children vary, of course, as you say.

Nice to know we can agree on some things. :)

Indeed. :D :)

meesha1971

December 15th, 2009, 12:35 pm

Meesha, I'm an idiot. I had actually forgotten that the scene does mention Ron's relationship with his mother, as your quotes prove. :yuhup:

OK, yes, I agree with all of that. :)

:tu:

We'll just have to agree to disagree on this. :) Evil, as portrayed in literature (I am not referring to anything in real life) is often portrayed as both seductive and sensual. And I do think that the Horcrux torments Ron with a distorted romantic image (his fear that he will lose his girl to Harry, as he fears being second-best to Harry, as his mother's adopted son) as the symbol of Ron's deepest fears. But I take on board that other elements were factoring in as well.

Well, I'm referring to literature and film as well - not real life. After all, things like vampires and werewolves don't actually exist. ;)

But there is a distinction between evil and sensual no matter how it is portrayed. An evil being who intends to kill or torture you by whatever means is going to be creepy and disturbing no matter what the author has them say or do prior to that because their ultimate goal is evil. They can have them show up with flowers and chocolate - kiss - attempt a seduction - it does not matter because they are evil. There is absolutely no way for any author - or filmmaker for that matter - to believably make something like that erotic, sensual, or romantic because it is evil and evil is never erotic, sensual, or romantic.

You've demonstrated the reason for that yourself in how you describe the scene - nightmarish, distorted, evil - those aren't sensual images no matter what they are doing. Nightmarish images kissing can only be creepy and disturbing, IMO.

To clarify - I'm not disputing that there are authors and filmmakers who have attempted to make such things erotic or sensual. My point is that it is never believable and that just ruins the scene because it is not believable for something like that to be erotic or sensual, IMo.

Sorry, I wasn't aiming my remark at anyone here with slightly older kids. :blush: I've never forgotten, though, the parents who sat behind me during Goblet of Fire with their five year old: the little girl started crying loudly during the graveyard scene, saying that she didn't like it.

But children vary, of course, as you say.

Very true. I do think it is the parents responsibility to know what their kids can and cannot handle. And I've rarely run into anyone who didn't have a really good idea. There are those out there who don't - or they don't adequately look into whatever they're taking their kids to see - I just haven't really run into many myself. We went to see OOTP at midnight, but we saw all the other HP films during matinees - much less expensive when you have a group of 9 people. :lol: There have always been a lot of kids in the audience of various ages - averaging about 6 to 15 or so - but there are usually some younger ones as well - even toddlers. The teenagers typically cause more of a disturbance than the younger kids - talking, giggling, etc... The two teenage girls that sat next to us in OOTP drove me batty - they kept giggling and talking about what would happen next. And that annoyed my husband because he hasn't read the books and hates spoilers of any kind.