Biweekly Author Discussion - Jane Austen

Jane Austen found a place in the authors list that many people had suggested for discussions and here we go! Meanwhile, you can keep your author suggestions (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=126196) coming in for future discussions :)

Forum Rules (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=120541) will apply as usual for this thread.

And without further ado:

"Let other pens dwell on guilt and misery. I quit such odious subjects as soon as I can..."

http://www.arsgrafik.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/old-english-fonts-jane-austen.jpg

These are just some questions to get us started. Feel free to answer as many as you like :)

1. How did you first get to know of Jane Austen?
2. How many of Austen's books have you read? Which is your favourite and least favourite?
3. Favourite and least favourite characters?
4. If you had to point out only two reasons for liking/disliking Austen, what would they be?
5. Do you have a favourite Austen quote?
6. Do you believe Jane Austen would not be as popular or 'commercial' as she is today, if not for a certain BBC adaptation and the slew of films/TV series that followed?
7. Do you like the idea of Austen spin-offs and books/movies based on Austen herself or her characters? Have you read/watched any such?
8. Do you think Austen is overrated? If so, why?
9. Have you read any biography of Jane Austen or watched any movie/documentary about her life?

Yay, first to comment on Jane Austen!

1. How did you first get to know of Jane Austen?

During my childhood and adolescence I used to read books from my parents' bookshelves - one of those books was Pride and Prejudice, and that's how I got to know of Jane Austen.

2. How many of Austen's books have you read? Which is your favourite and least favourite?

Two and a half - Pride and Prejudice and Persuasion and I haven't finished Sense and Sensibility yet. I love both finished.

3. Favourite and least favourite characters?

Of the books I've read, there isn't a single bad (meaning badly written) character that I can think of. The one I'm most fond of is Elizabeth Bennet though.

4. If you had to point out only two reasons for liking/disliking Austen, what would they be?

She's a fantastic writer as a whole, and I love reading about love in past times.

5. Do you have a favourite Austen quote?

Oh, many. The one that springs to mind immediately is: "You showed me how insufficient were all my pretensions to please a woman worthy of being pleased." I think it's a very powerful line, which is at the same time full of humility and appreciation. It also has a pretty strong feminist undertone, in my opinion.

6. Do you believe Jane Austen would not be as popular or 'commercial' as she is today, if not for a certain BBC adaptation and the slew of films/TV series that followed?

I couldn't say.

7. Do you like the idea of Austen spin-offs and books/movies based on Austen herself or her characters? Have you read/watched any such?

I'd watch anything related to Austen, as long as it's well made. I watched "Miss Austen Regrets" and "The Real Jane Austen" recently.

8. Do you think Austen is overrated? If so, why?

Not one bit. She's everything she's cracked up to be.

8. Do you think Austen is overrated? If so, why?


I don't know. Overrated within the literary community probably not. Overrated when it comes to the commercialism of her books, maybe. I think it's great people read classics but it seems to me that Austen isn't the be all and end-all when it comes to literature. There are plenty of great writers out there that no one outside the literary community takes any interest in and discusses. Or at least not as much as they read and discuss Austen and the Brontes. Nowadays it looks like Austen and even the Brontes have begun to be considered chicklit writers and it's quite obvious from the covers that they target the Marian Keyes-reader. I know the point is to "educate" people and make them read classics but if you don't read a classic as a classic then I see little point in reading it at all. If someone reads Austen as chicklit then they are missing the point. I also dislike the fact that novels about women and with a feminist theme, with the purpose of portraying strong and independent women, have once again become just about some "hot" man. Most readers like Austen because they like Darcy and like Charlotte Bronte because they like Rochester. I'm not sure if it's the same with Wuthering Heights since Heathcliff may be too much for most women. Anyway, it's sad that books about women are mainly appreciated for their male characters.

I don't know. Overrated within the literary community probably not. Overrated when it comes to the commercialism of her books, maybe. I think it's great people read classics but it seems to me that Austen isn't the be all and end-all when it comes to literature. There are plenty of great writers out there that no one outside the literary community takes any interest in and discusses. Or at least not as much as they read and discuss Austen and the Brontes. Nowadays it looks like Austen and even the Brontes have begun to be considered chicklit writers and it's quite obvious from the covers that they target the Marian Keyes-reader. I know the point is to "educate" people and make them read classics but if you don't read a classic as a classic then I see little point in reading it at all. If someone reads Austen as chicklit then they are missing the point. I also dislike the fact that novels about women and with a feminist theme, with the purpose of portraying strong and independent women, have once again become just about some "hot" man. Most readers like Austen because they like Darcy and like Charlotte Bronte because they like Rochester. I'm not sure if it's the same with Wuthering Heights since Heathcliff may be too much for most women. Anyway, it's sad that books about women are mainly appreciated for their male characters.

I'm not sure I agree with everything (though you make an excellent point overall, in my opinion). I really don't think women who have turned to Austen as a result of her having become increasingly popular lately are only interested in the male characters. To be honest, I feel this is more of an "outsider" view and it's often applied to anything targeting a female audience - chick-flicks, attractive male artists, chick-lit, female-oriented TV shows, etc. - "They only watch/read/listen to it because of the hot guy." But I don't know any women who actually do in the case of Austen's books. I know we here aren't a representative sample by any stretch, but if you look at the numerous social groups dedicated to Jane Austen and literature in general, the discussion go well beyond Mr. Darcy's hotness.

So in my opinion and in my experience and observations, attributing interest in Jane Austen to her male characters is closely connected to the effort to stuff her work in the chick-lit genre (where it doesn't belong at all, in my opinion): it's an outside effort to invalidate her literary worth because prevalently female attention to something stigmatizes it. Popular culture abounds with examples of this rule.

1. How did you first get to know of Jane Austen?

There was a BBC TV adaptation of Pride and Prejudice (I'm old so we are talking decades before the Jennifer Ehle/Colin Firth adaptation) on when I was about ten that I watched with my parents.

2. How many of Austen's books have you read?

Mansfield Park, Northanger Abbey, Pride and Prejudice, Sense and Sensibility.

Which is your favourite and least favourite?

Don't really have either, although Northanger Abbey obviously has more evident weaknesses, because it was written so early in her career.

3. Favourite and least favourite characters?

I like Lizzie Bennet and Fanny Price. I also like some of the characters you're not supposed to like, like Henry Crawford and that awful girl who "entraps" the guy into an engagement in Sense and Sensibility.

Least favourite? Henry Tilney in Northanger Abbey is so infuriatingly paternalistic and patronising. I know I'm going to make myself the most hated person on CoS for saying this, but there's something about Edmund Bertram that really gets my goat.

4. If you had to point out only two reasons for liking Austen, what would they be?

Her subtle wit. And her ability to capture the harsh choices and social reality facing women of her time.

5. Do you have a favourite Austen quote?

No, I don't think I do.

6. Do you believe Jane Austen would not be as popular or 'commercial' as she is today, if not for a certain BBC adaptation and the slew of films/TV series that followed?

Yes - there were plenty of film and TV adaptations before Andrew Davies's. The work has generated its own popularity - although I'm sure Colin Firth's shirtlessness also helped.

7. Do you like the idea of Austen spin-offs and books/movies based on Austen herself or her characters? Have you read/watched any such?

If they're good, yes (e.g. Bridget Jones, which I love). Not if they're just lazily cashing in on Austenmania and probably wouldn't have found a publisher/producer if it weren't for the Austen connection. Having said that, I haven't seen Becoming Jane, Bride and Prejudice or read Pride and Prejudice and Zombies, so can't comment on them.

There was a BBC drama about Jane Austen's life on a year or so back which I very much enjoyed and loved the actor playing Jane (whose name momentarily escapes me). She was a lot more independent, risque and feisty than I've always imagined the real Jane to be, but that was partly why it was so good - it made me question my own assumptions about Regency women.

8. Do you think Austen is overrated? If so, why?

I don't know about that. There are many other writers whom I like as much or more who don't get the same amount of attention, but that's just my taste. I don't think she'd have sustained her reputation for two centuries if she'd been writing cack.

9. Have you read any biography of Jane Austen or watched any movie/documentary about her life?

See above.

1. How did you first get to know of Jane Austen?

I found an abridged copy of Pride and Prejudice in my school library when I was 12 and asked for the unabridged version.

2. How many of Austen's books have you read? Which is your favourite and least favourite?

I've read: Sense and Sensibility, Emma, Northanger Abbey, Pride and Prejudice and Persuasion.

My favourite is Pride and Prejudice because it manages to be such an amazingly entertaining, well-written satire with a great romance. Persuasion is close too, primarily because of the extraordinarily mature spin to the main relationship in the story. Least favourite is probably whatever little I've read of Mansfield Park :whistle:

3. Favourite and least favourite characters?

Favourite: Elizabeth Bennet, Mr.Darcy, Captain Wentworth, Mrs. Bennet and Lady Catherine De Bourgh (They are all so well-written that they seem very realistic to me!)

Least favourite: I wouldn't call her my least favourite, but I'm no fan of Marianne Dashwood.

4. If you had to point out only two reasons for liking/disliking Austen, what would they be?

Her sense of humour, sarcasm, that in my opinion makes her books stand out. And the fact that she has the courage to have 'unpopular', 'annoying', 'boring' heroines in her books.

5. Do you have a favourite Austen quote?

I knew when I wrote this question that I'll have a tough time answering it :yuhup: I have several favourite Austen quotes some of which are:

"A lady's imagination is very rapid; it jumps from admiration to love, from love to matrimony in a moment."
"The more I see of the world, the more I am dissatisfied with it."
"Men have had every advantage of us in telling their own story. Education has been theirs in so much higher a degree; the pen has been in their hands. I will not allow books to prove anything."
"A large income is the best recipe for happiness I ever heard of."
"Laugh as much as you choose, but you will not laugh me out of my opinion."
"How quick come the reasons for approving what we like."
6. Do you believe Jane Austen would not be as popular or 'commercial' as she is today, if not for a certain BBC adaptation and the slew of films/TV series that followed?

I certainly believe that the famous 1995 P&P adaptation and also the 2005 adaptation lead to a whole new audience waking up to Austen. The slew of films/books based on Austen have utilised that market and have in their own way lead to new generations reading Austen.

7. Do you like the idea of Austen spin-offs and books/movies based on Austen herself or her characters? Have you read/watched any such?

Well, there's a lot of good and a lot of bad when it comes to Austen spin-offs. I must admit I get annoyed when I see many authors using Austen to sell their books and I'm definitely not going to be reading Pride and Prejudice and Zombies or Sense and Sensibility and Sea Monsters any time soon. All IMO of course.

But these shouldn't overshadow some excellent Austen-based books - be it Karen Joy Fowler's lovely The Jane Austen Book Club or the enjoyable and funny Confessions of a Jane Austen Addict. Lost in Austen is quirky but I found it to be a delightful tribute to Austen. Austen is universal in a sense and one of my favourite Tamil films Kandukondain Kandukondain is an adaptation of S&S. Miss Austen Regrets is one of my favourite films ever and it sort of captures on screen the Austen I imagine, who wrote these books that I love.

8. Do you think Austen is overrated? If so, why?

No, I don't. I do believe that the series of 'Austen-inspired' books and TV series are in a sense overdoing things, but her books stand testament to the power and grace of her writing :)

If they're good, yes (e.g. Bridget Jones, which I love). Not if they're just lazily cashing in on Austenmania and probably wouldn't have found a publisher/producer if it weren't for the Austen connection. Having said that, I haven't seen Becoming Jane, Bride and Prejudice or read Pride and Prejudice and Zombies, so can't comment on them.

Pride and Prejudice and Zombies I found awful as far as I read it (which was about two thirds in). I enjoyed Becoming Jane.

There was a BBC drama about Jane Austen's life on a year or so back which I very much enjoyed and loved the actor playing Jane (whose name momentarily escapes me). She was a lot more independent, risque and feisty than I've always imagined the real Jane to be, but that was partly why it was so good - it made me question my own assumptions about Regency women.

Could it be Miss Austen Regrets? If so, the actor's name is Olivia Williams. She also played Jane Fairfax in one of the Emma adaptations (the one with Kate Beckinsale).

1. How did you first get to know of Jane Austen?

We were moving to a new place, and I was left in charge to clear up a certain store room. I found one of the closets full of books that once belonged to my Grandmother. I came across lots of books, many of which are now favourites of mine. Anyways from among those books I found Sense and Sensibility. But it was in a real bad state, torn apart, decayed and yellowed. I didn't think of keeping it, I didn't even look at it twice (the illustration was horrible), I didn't even notice the author's name. Digging further into the closet, I found Pride and Prejudice, in a much better state, it could be held without falling apart, and the cover was torn. Anyways, I kept this one and a few months later I tried to read it. I kept reading the first two chapters for a really long time. One day, I just don't know what happened, I read the whole thing from morning to noon. From that time I kept picking an Austen book every now and then.

2. How many of Austen's books have you read? Which is your favourite and least favourite?

I've read four of them (in order): Pride and Prejudice, Sense and Sensibility, Mansfield Park and Persuasion. I'm now reading Northanger Abbey, and I once tried to read Emma, but I couldn't get into it. Going to read it soon enough.

As for my favourites, I think my favourite is Mansfield Park closely followed by Pride and Prejudice. As for least favourite, it may be Sense and Sensibility, but that's probably because I haven't read it in so long, and don't remember it well.

3. Favourite and least favourite characters?

Favourite female characters: Elizabeth Bennet, Elizabeth Elliot (:whistle:), Lady Bertram.
Favourite male characters: Mr. Darcy, Edmund Bertram and Henry Crawford.

Least favourite: Mrs. Norris from Mansfield Park. But I still find her funny, despite being annoying and unfair to Fanny.

6. Do you believe Jane Austen would not be as popular or 'commercial' as she is today, if not for a certain BBC adaptation and the slew of films/TV series that followed?

I wasn't introduced to Austen through movies or TV, so I'm sure I still would've become a fan of hers, had her books never been made into movies or TV series. Untill now, I've watched only one movie of her books (the latest P&P movie).

9. Have you read any biography of Jane Austen or watched any movie/documentary about her life?

Apart from the 'about the author' at the beginning of each book, I unfortunately don't know much about Jane Austen.

Could it be Miss Austen Regrets? If so, the actor's name is Olivia Williams. She also played Jane Fairfax in one of the Emma adaptations (the one with Kate Beckinsale).

Yes, that was the one! Thank you :)

I love the Jane Austen font!

Now, let me be honest. I haven't read any of her work, but it is on my list and I am planning on reading it soon. I just have other stuff ahead of hers.

1. How did you first get to know of Jane Austen?
I can't recall when I first heard of her, but I know I used to place her in the same category as the Bronte sisters. This forum is full of Austen lovers so it's hard not to hear of her and I'm not sure what to think of her stuff now.

2. How many of Austen's books have you read? Which is your favourite and least favourite?
0, but I do plan on reading them sometime soon!

4. If you had to point out only two reasons for liking/disliking Austen, what would they be?
This is all based on not having read her stuff.
Liking - following the popular thing
Disliking - Romance

6. Do you believe Jane Austen would not be as popular or 'commercial' as she is today, if not for a certain BBC adaptation and the slew of films/TV series that followed?
I think that has had something to do with it. It's not a bad thing as it does introduce people to literature and not ****.

7. Do you like the idea of Austen spin-offs and books/movies based on Austen herself or her characters? Have you read/watched any such?
I haven't read any so I can't say whether they are good or not, but I think it's okay.

1. How did you first get to know of Jane Austen? My parents are enormous Austen lovers, so I grew up watching all the movies. We own all the books, and would listen to the audio tapes in the car on long road trips :) So I guess Jane Austen has always been a huge part of my life.

2. Favourite and least favourite characters? I think the thing that makes her such a wonderful author is that she fleshes out her characters so well, and makes them believable. My favorite 'good' character, though, would have to be Mr. Knightley, and my favorite 'bad' character is Mr. Wickham. I love Eleanor and Lizzy, for the heroines.

3. Do you have a favourite Austen quote? It's hard to pick just one, but this quote makes me chuckle: "The person, be it gentleman or lady, who has not pleasure in a good novel, must be intolerably stupid." Ooh, and this one: "A lady's imagination is very rapid; it jumps from admiration to love, from love to matrimony in a moment."

1. How did you first get to know of Jane Austen?

Know of her? I've been hearing her name all my life, I believe. But I didn't start reading something of hers until I picked up Pride and Prejudice when I was about 15. I couldn't finish it that time. :whistle:

2. How many of Austen's books have you read? Which is your favourite and least favourite?

I've read about 3 or 4. And I'm thinking of trying Persuasion again.
Favorite...Ooh, probably P&P, but I do like Emma.
Least...Mansfield Park.

3. Favourite and least favourite characters?

Hm...Good question. Among my least favorites would be Henry Crawford (don't recall the particulars, but I remember having a very strong negative reaction to him), Mrs. Elton, and Fanny Price.

My favorites are the female leads who grow and learn as the novel progresses, like Elizabeth Bennet and Emma. I also have a bit of a soft spot for Lizzie's dad and Mr Knightley. :elaugh:

4. If you had to point out only two reasons for liking/disliking Austen, what would they be?

What I like about Austen...would probably be seeing the characters as individuals, changing, growing, and going through life. I find the main characters often very realistic.

5. Do you have a favourite Austen quote?

I'll go with the one Yoana posted. I love that.

Hm...Good question. Among my least favorites would be Henry Crawford (don't recall the particulars, but I remember having a very strong negative reaction to him), Mrs. Elton, and Fanny Price.

I understand why someone might just hate Henry Crawford. But what I liked about him is that he tries so hard yet fails to be good. I think it's quite realistic.

Okay, I'll answer the rest of the questions:

4. If you had to point out only two reasons for liking/disliking Austen, what would they be?

Like: like others said I like how her characters are very realistic, I think I can sometimes see myself doing or thinking the same way they do. I like her female characters so much, including Fany Price (which I think is considered her 'weakest' female character.

Dislike: I think her books are a little bit predictable. For instance in Mansfield Park I felt that:
Fanny and Edmund would end up together, despite all that happened between Fanny and Henry, and between Edmund and Mary.

I think if you read two or three of her books, you can tell how the others would go.

5. Do you have a favourite Austen quote?

Here are some that I can remember:

From Pride and Prejudice:

“Nothing is more deceitful ... than the appearance of humility. It is often only carelessness of opinion, and sometimes an indirect boast.” -Mr. Darcy

“There are few people whom I really love, and still fewer of whom I think well. The more I see of the world, the more am I dissatisfied with it; and every day confirms my belief of the inconsistency of all human characters, and of the little dependence that can be placed on the appearance of merit or sense.” - ELizabeth Bennet.

Mansfield Park:

“A large income is the best recipe for happiness I ever heard of.”

1. How did you first get to know of Jane Austen?

My mother recommended her to me.

2. How many of Austen's books have you read? Which is your favourite and least favourite?

All. I like all of them, although maybe a little less the Northanger Abbey

3. Favourite and least favourite characters?


I love Lizzie Bennett. Henry Tilney is my least favourite.

4. If you had to point out only two reasons for liking/disliking Austen, what would they be?

Only for liking her: her wit and her talent for the social satire.

6. Do you believe Jane Austen would not be as popular or 'commercial' as she is today, if not for a certain BBC adaptation and the slew of films/TV series that followed?

Hard to say. Probably without Colin Firth she would be less popular amongst the public that doesn't really read, only watches movies. :rolleyes:

7. Do you like the idea of Austen spin-offs and books/movies based on Austen herself or her characters? Have you read/watched any such?

I watched Miss Austen regrets. I'm not particularly interested on ithis kind of fiction.

8. Do you think Austen is overrated? If so, why?

I don't think so.

9. Have you read any biography of Jane Austen or watched any movie/documentary about her life?


I read a biography and a choice of her letters.

1. How did you first get to know of Jane Austen?

I can't really remember, I think she's just one of those authors that people hear about, long before they read the books. It might have been in connection with the 1995 tv adaptation, though.

2. How many of Austen's books have you read? Which is your favourite and least favourite?
I've read Pride and Prejudice and Mansfield Park. I've started reading Sense and Sensibility. Of the two that I've read, I preferred Pride and Prejudice. I found it quite hard to warm to the characters in Mansfield Park, even though I felt for Fanny, because of the way she was treated. I also thought the relationship that develops at the end was a bit strange, even though I know it's something that was often done at the time.

3. Favourite and least favourite characters?

Predictable, maybe, but I really like Lizzy Bennet. I think she's a wonderful, strong character. I think I actually cheered when I first read her standing up to Lady Catherine.

Least favourite: Mrs Norris annoys me so much, I think she's a horrible woman, but very well written. Just like the other characters I strongly dislike, Mr Collins and Lady Catherine, her own words and behaviour betray her true character. From what I've read of Sense and Sensibility, I think Mrs Fanny Dashwood is going to be one of those Austen characters I really dislike.

4. If you had to point out only two reasons for liking/disliking Austen, what would they be?
I like her wit, the way she subtly mocks certain types of characters and behaviour.

I like the characters, I think they're very real, very believable.

6. Do you believe Jane Austen would not be as popular or 'commercial' as she is today, if not for a certain BBC adaptation and the slew of films/TV series that followed?
I think maybe the adaptations brought Austen to a new audience, and made her books more popular, but there are plenty who would read her books with or without film and tv adapatations.

7. Do you like the idea of Austen spin-offs and books/movies based on Austen herself or her characters? Have you read/watched any such?
I enjoyed the Bridget Jones books/films. I've seen the 1995 P&P adaptation, and the film adaptation with Keira Knightley. I've seen the Pride and Prejudice and Zombies book in the shops, but it seems like a strange cash-in thing to me.

8. Do you think Austen is overrated? If so, why?
I don't think so, I think she's a wonderful author, whose work has really stood the test of time - her characters are ones that people can still relate to. Perhaps there is an excessive focus on Austen, adaptation-wise, (so many period drama adaptations seem to be Austen, Dickens or the Bronte sisters)
because that there are not a lot nineteenth century authors that most people read/are familiar with, and Austen is one of these authors. That might lead to criticism of her work as being overrated, IMO.

1. How did you first get to know of Jane Austen?
Mum :)

2. How many of Austen's books have you read? Which is your favourite and least favourite?
Pride and Prejudice.

3. Favourite and least favourite characters?
I liked Mr. Bingley. Disliked Mr. Wickham.

4. If you had to point out only two reasons for liking/disliking Austen, what would they be?
Like:
1. She's a good author-wit and satire.
2. Interesting characters and stories.


5. Do you have a favourite Austen quote?
Nope.

6. Do you believe Jane Austen would not be as popular or 'commercial' as she is today, if not for a certain BBC adaptation and the slew of films/TV series that followed?
No, I think most people read her books through reccommendations.

7. Do you like the idea of Austen spin-offs and books/movies based on Austen herself or her characters? Have you read/watched any such?
I watched Kiera Knightly's Pride and Prejudice, but I didn't like it, because she didn't seem like Elizabeth Bennet.

1. How did you first get to know of Jane Austen?
My mother recommended I watch the movie of Sense & Sensibility.

2. How many of Austen's books have you read? Which is your favourite and least favourite?
I've read one and a little bit. Sense & Sensibility and I'm near the beginning of Pride and Prejudice. So obviously Sense & Sensibility is my favorite.

3. Favourite and least favourite characters?
My favorite character is Elinor Dashwood because she is exactly like me so I guess it's just really easy for me to understand all her motives. I also like Fanny Dashwood because she is so manipulative and cold. She's not someone I'd like in real life but she's fun to read about. It's the same with Mrs. Jennings. In real life, I'd find her annoying sometimes, but she brings so much comedy to the book that I love her. And although she can be foolish, she's also very caring and always has people's best interest at heart.

As far as least favorite, I guess I'd say Willoughby. I hate the way he treats people. Not only the way he treats Marianne, but also Colonel Brandon and the way he talks about people like he's so much better than them. Marianne had a lot of that too, but she learned better. And for all Willoughby's romantic talk, he couldn't live up to it.

4. If you had to point out only two reasons for liking/disliking Austen, what would they be?
The realness of her characters and her narration. her characters are the most like real people I've ever read. The relationships between them, the way they talk to each other, their silent communication, etc., it's all authentic. The relationship she shows between Elinor and Marianne is a mirror of the relationship between myself and my younger sister. There are lines in Sense & Sensibility that I would swear Austen lifted from a conversation between me and my sister if she hadn't been born 200 years before me. Especially when Marianne says, "I am not going to write to my mother."

The way she narrates is another reason I like her so much. She points out how ridiculous so many social conventions are, how wrong her characters actions are, while also managing to tell the story in a way that makes us feel for the characters. She tells the truth with wit.

5. Do you have a favourite Austen quote?
So many:
"The lady, I suppose, has no choice in the affair." - Elinor from S&S. I love this quote because it says so much about how little control people had over whom they married, especially women. It's quite a feminist notion. And it also shows a preference for marrying for love instead of stability.

"Sometimes I have kept my feelings to myself because I could find no language to describe them in but what was worn and hackneyed out of all sense and meaning" - Marianne. I feel the same. Often the best thoughts are those that cannot be expressed with words. They must be felt.

"We can all begin freely -- a slight preference is natural enough; but there are very few of us who have heart enough to be really in love without encouragement" - Pride and Prejudice. I feel this is a very true statement. It's very easy to have a crush on someone, but when your feelings become more serious then the possible rejection becomes stronger. You need encouragement.

6. Do you believe Jane Austen would not be as popular or 'commercial' as she is today, if not for a certain BBC adaptation and the slew of films/TV series that followed?
I'm not sure. I wasn't even around when that adaptation happened so I don't know how much Austenmania it spawned. I think I still would have liked her since it was my mother who recommended her and my mom has always been into that kind of stuff.

7. Do you like the idea of Austen spin-offs and books/movies based on Austen herself or her characters? Have you read/watched any such?
I do like the idea. I have watched and own both Miss Austen Regrets and Becoming Jane. I've not read Pride & Prejudice & Zombies but I might one day.I watched Bride & Prejudice; it wasn't that good.

8. Do you think Austen is overrated? If so, why?
No. I think she might be the greatest author who ever lived.

9. Have you read any biography of Jane Austen or watched any movie/documentary about her life?
I read the little bio of her at the beginning of my copy of Sense & Sensibility.

1. How did you first get to know of Jane Austen?

In college, I was required to watch Sense & Sensibility's 1995 adaptation for a course called "English History Through Film." Although I've since learned it's not really a particularly accurate reflection of the book (and actually, that few if any of the movies really do accurately depict even the basics of her style), it's still among my top five movies that I've ever seen (it's precariously at #5 in a close call with Inception at #6).

2. How many of Austen's books have you read? Which is your favourite and least favourite?

I've by now read all three included in the collection I have, namely P&P, S&S, and Persuasion. Of the three, P&P is easily my favorite book while Persuasion is my least favorite. I've also read her satirical "plan for a novel" and Lady Susan.

3. Favourite and least favourite characters?

My favorite characters include Elizabeth Bennet (currently my only fictional-character crush), Mr. Darcy (a great character - yes, even some of we straight guys see him that way), Colonel Brandon (the kind of man I hope to become, though perhaps not as wealthy), Mr. Bennet, and Mr. Collins (two of the most hilarious characters I've ever had the pleasure of reading).

My least favorite characters are Willoughby, Wickham, and Lydia. I've known just enough people identical to them in the real world, as well as the fact that these days, they neither receive their just rewards nor are ever found out for their true selves, to know how odious they can be. In fact, the prominence of the first two is why I must believe in an afterlife - for nothing else would keep the universe having any sense of justice.

4. If you had to point out only two reasons for liking/disliking Austen, what would they be?

1. Like: Her unparalleled wit - there aren't many other authors whose every sentence you have to consider in light of just how serious (or ironic) they're being. In fact, sometimes it takes so much attention to notice her irony that most adaptations have failed to even notice it.

2. Dislike: Her lack of attention to detail. Granted, this does leave the reader to imagine most of what's going on, but she can, at times, read like a plot outline that hasn't yet been fleshed out.

5. Do you have a favourite Austen quote?

She has too many great quotes to choose a favorite. The opening two paragraphs for Pride & Prejudice pretty much typify her writing though, IMO.

6. Do you believe Jane Austen would not be as popular or 'commercial' as she is today, if not for a certain BBC adaptation and the slew of films/TV series that followed?

Define "popular." It goes without saying that the adaptations have increased exposure to her works - after all, it's hardly possible for an adaptation to decrease exposure to anything. However, I do think that they're a bit of an exposure to heavily... diluted versions of her work, and that other than the BBC's fantastic 1995 P&P, they've somewhat diluted her fanbase as a consequence. I think they've drawn attention away from her irony and biting sarcasm in exchange for a (highly undeserved) reputation as a "typical idealist romance" or "chick-lit" author, or occasionally (*shudders*) even as a "girl gets a hot rich guy" author. I think at this point, thanks particularly to the fun-to-watch-but-horrendously-disloyal 2005 P&P, that the "classic romance swooners" outweigh the "true Austenites" by a ratio of 10-to-1 at the very minimum. The relatively low long-term membership on Republic of Pemberley says it all. So a lot of her modern popularity seems to be towards an author that didn't exist.

One of the unfortunate side effects to this is that it's also resulted in something of a backlash that, fortunately, has little to no voice in the Austenite communities - those who try to pretend that Jane Austen's romance plots should not be noticed at all, or should not be viewed as model relationships. In fact, I'd say if anything it's the modern attitude toward relationships that's unhealthy - it too often casts the Wickhams, the Lydias, and the Willoughbies as desirable and pretend there are no Darcies, Elizabeths, or Brandons - or if there are, they must be hiding something. Darcy and Elizabeth are if anything the best and most realistic relationship I've ever read.

There is also a small secondary backlash that IMO does even more harm - namely, those who try to say that mentioning Austen's in-plot romances or her influence on future chick-lit authors is an attempt to discredit her - but thankfully, those are few and far between.

7. Do you like the idea of Austen spin-offs and books/movies based on Austen herself or her characters? Have you read/watched any such?

I've read the "Jane Austen Guide to Good Manners" several times. It was not only fun, it was illuminating and did very much to elaborate on the behavior of her characters. In fact, reading Persuasion after it helped me to better understand Persuasion itself.

I've watched Bridget Jones' Diary, which was loosely ripped from P&P's plot, and found that while it was very "normalized," it was still a bit entertaining. Nothing I'd go out of my way to suggest to Austenites, though.

I've read Pride & Prejudice & Zombies. It sounded like an amusing concept, but basically it was just 90% the same book and 10% the author's random additions or modifications. Just didn't come across as very original to me. I wonder how long it'll be before they get to the Brontes - Wuthering Heights and Werewolves, for instance.

8. Do you think Austen is overrated? If so, why?

Unfathomable. Simply unfathomable. The only all-time authors who are less overrated than Jane Austen are William Shakespeare and Stephen King. If anything, Jane Austen is as underrated as Stephanie Meyer is overrated.

Unfortunately, as mentioned above, some readers "rate" her for all the wrong reasons, many even in the wrong genre. However, while I think that many place her in genres that might or might not hurt her image, I also think that were people who seriously understand her writing to introduce her writing traits to those genres, it would help those genres more than it would hurt her own image. Unfortunately, most people, and especially modern authors in most romance-related genres, are too intellectually lazy to do that.

9. Have you read any biography of Jane Austen or watched any movie/documentary about her life?

I'm afraid not.

One of the unfortunate side effects to this is that it's also resulted in something of a backlash that, fortunately, has little to no voice in the Austenite communities - those who try to pretend that Jane Austen's romance plots should not be noticed at all, or should not be viewed as model relationships.

To each their own I would say. Why shouldn't people be allowed to dislike Austen's romance plots? In what way is it harmful? Some people don't like her writing at all.

There is also a small secondary backlash that IMO does even more harm - namely, those who try to say that mentioning Austen's in-plot romances or her influence on future chick-lit authors is an attempt to discredit her - but thankfully, those are few and far between.

I don't know too much about that but female authors are discredited a great deal within the literary community, which is male dominated. For all you and I know people may be trying to discredit Austen by linking her in any way to chicklit. No one can know for sure though. And even so I don't understand why it's harmful for people to claim that. Whom are they harming? Even if you believe it's unreasonable to defend Austen from being associated with chick lit I still don't see the harmful part of it. As for chicklit writers being inspired by Austen- well too bad they missed the part about the intelligent social critique and the lovely and very flattering portrayals of women.

Well, I think this is rather close to being off-topic, but I'll answer some of this.

I don't know too much about that but female authors are discredited a great deal within the literary community, which is male dominated.

Then how did authors like Austen, the Brontes, Joyce Carol Oates, Toni Morrison, and Sappho, just to name a few, become taken as seriously as they deserve to be in the first place?

And even so I don't understand why it's harmful for people to claim that. Whom are they harming?

Let's see... for starters, they're insulting the literary community, including the genuinely good voices in it, with a blanket charge of sexism that not everybody in it necessarily deserves. Some female authors may also be made to feel more hopeless if they feel (falsely) like they're stuck with a culture that's going to keep them from being successful no matter what - ironically, this charge itself actually contributes to the same consequences it claims the "literary establishment" is guilty of. They're making other Austenites who actually care more about literary analysis than some abstract social issue that may or may not exist look bad. Those who make such claims are also suppressing many points of view in opposition to their own by labeling them in ways they don't necessarily deserve to be labeled, which is insulting to those thus labeled to say the least; in this way they are in a sense preventing serious discussion about an author's motives and impact on culture.

Even if you believe it's unreasonable to defend Austen from being associated with chick lit I still don't see the harmful part of it. As for chicklit writers being inspired by Austen- well too bad they missed the part about the intelligent social critique and the lovely and very flattering portrayals of women.

Or, on the other hand, they may be trying to lend the "chicklit" label itself more credibility by associating non-shallow authors with it. Who is anyone to judge that? At any rate, go back and actually read my post again, this time while shutting off the knee-jerk reflex. You'll notice I voiced a personal revulsion to the "chicklit" label, which by its mainstream modern definition is probably IMO the worst possible label for Jane Austen's work. On the other hand, I do think it's silly to pretend that "chicklit" is by necessity a perjorative or to pretend anyone who so much as mentions it, or Austen's impact on it, must be an Oppressor Of Womyn. That's not just suppressive, that's actively offensive, it does more harm to the image of we Austenites ourselves than to those being thusly accused, and even if I personally disagree that Austen herself has anything in common with modern "chicklit" authors, people who go to that much of an extreme just make their own cause look bad. This could also lead to some outsiders associating that sort of behavior with Austenites in general, who have enough problems with the modern casual person failing to understand or even be aware of Austen's social critique and multi-layered wit.

1. How did you first get to know of Jane Austen?
I watched Sense & Sensibility when I was 13 or 14; you know, the age you begin getting interested in romance, love stories, etc. I got in love with the story and borrowed the book from the library, In some moment I realized that behind the love story, the bows and courtseys and the troubled, virtuous heroines, there was quite a lot of irony. And then my hunt for Jane Austen books began...


2. How many of Austen's books have you read? Which is your favourite and least favourite?

Sense and Sensibility, Pride and Prejudice, Emma, Northanger Abbey and Mansfield Park. I think the only I haven't read is Lady Susan, but it's almost impossible to find in the library. I'm as close as Austen-addict as it's possible...

3. Favourite and least favourite characters?

Favs: Elinor Dashwood, Lizzy Bennet, Col. Brandon, Mr Knightley, Capt Wenworth in letter-writing mode.
Least favs: Bingley's sisters (harpies!)

4. If you had to point out only two reasons for liking/disliking Austen, what would they be?

Liking:
1) Her irresistible satyre.
2) That sensible, good-hearted girls get the lovely man, and harpies get disappointed. Life isn't fair, but JA makes us hope a little.

Disliking:
1) You need all your senses when you read it. She never writes without intention, and you could miss something!
2) I admit that at times her paragraphs feel too long.

5. Do you have a favourite Austen quote?

That of S&S, where she says that there shoud be children in every social meeting to prevent the lack of chat topics.

The way she introduces Mr Darcy (something like his friend, Mr Darcy, of whom it was soon known that had ten thousand a year...)

6. Do you believe Jane Austen would not be as popular or 'commercial' as she is today, if not for a certain BBC adaptation and the slew of films/TV series that followed?

I don't know, I learnt to love Austen long before watching that BBC adaptation (which, BTW, is my favourite of P&P; Colin Firth's fault in at least a 40%), but it's true that had it not been for Emma Thompson's adaptation I wouldn't have known her books...

7. Do you like the idea of Austen spin-offs and books/movies based on Austen herself or her characters? Have you read/watched any such?

The idea, I don't like neither dislike. If the book/movie is good, I like it. Anyway, I think that the only I've watched is Becoming Jane, which was pleasant enough without being a masterpiece (James McAvoy helped), and the only I've read is Pride, Prejudice & Zombies, which I thought absolutely annoying and quite boring.

8. Do you think Austen is overrated? If so, why?

I think that many mediocre writers try to force their 'relation' to JA, and therefore her name is associated with quite inferior books. But I think her books are now as funny, witty and even modern as in the tiem they were written, specially her snobbish characters.

I also think that authors and editors have tried to put on her the label of feminist, or something like that, but she's more than a label.

9. Have you read any biography of Jane Austen or watched any movie/documentary about her life?

Just Becoming Jane.

I've read Pride & Prejudice & Zombies. It sounded like an amusing concept, but basically it was just 90% the same book and 10% the author's random additions or modifications. Just didn't come across as very original to me.

That's how I felt about it, too. It also felt disjointed, because the zombie additions were just patched on, in my opinion. But its worst offence, in my view, is butchering Elizabeth Bennet's character. This book completely missed the point there.

Well, I think this is rather close to being off-topic, but I'll answer some of this.

I hope it isn't off topic if it's about Austen. It's much more interesting to have a discussion than for everyone to keep answerring questions, IMO. The way Austen is viewed today is highly relevant.

Then how did authors like Austen, the Brontes, Joyce Carol Oates, Toni Morrison, and Sappho, just to name a few, become taken as seriously as they deserve to be in the first place?

Because very few people are 100% biased. I also believe it has something to do with the pressure they got from feminist literary critics.

Let's see... for starters, they're insulting the literary community, including the genuinely good voices in it, with a blanket charge of sexism that not everybody in it necessarily deserves.
I don't think anyone is claiming that everyone is sexist. Just that not everyone may have the best intentions at heart.
They're making other Austenites who actually care more about literary analysis than some abstract social issue that may or may not exist look bad
What do you mean? Are you refering to sexism here?

Or, on the other hand, they may be trying to lend the "chicklit" label itself more credibility by associating non-shallow authors with it
Possibly. I'm sure that the chicklit authors who claim they have been inspired by Austen are doing exactly that. However, no association is going to help if the writing is bad. You're just going to end up trivializing Austen and her writing.
On the other hand, I do think it's silly to pretend that "chicklit" is by necessity a perjorative or to pretend anyone who so much as mentions it, or Austen's impact on it, must be an Oppressor Of Womyn.
Of course not. But I won't fall into the other extreme either and believe everyone just wants the best for everyone. We can only speculate about people's intention when they say something.
You assume they have good intentions. I am rather sceptical. That's all. Austen may have had an impact on chicklit and that's nothing to be ashamed of. However, saying that she had an impact on modern chicklit and classifying her works as chicklit is quite a different thing and the latter is more problematic, IMO. I'm not saying you do that I'm saying that there are critics with such tendencies. They may not do that because of sexism either since many of them are women. It's all about different ways of regarding Austen and to some her books are all about nice girls meeting handsome men.

Possibly. I'm sure that the chicklit authors who claim they have been inspired by Austen are doing exactly that. However, no association is going to help if the writing is bad. You're just going to end up trivializing Austen and her writing.

I agree it trivialises Austen works. But I also think it popularises such works in spite of the bad writing and the huge difference between the intention of Austen's book and said chick-lits and romance novels. I once stumbled across a blog in which the writer kept using Austen quotes to describe the relationship between Edward and Bella from Twilight (I particularily remember this one: Darcy had never been so bewitched by any woman as he was by her), actually the author of those books herself uses lots of refrences from Austen (and the Brontes) to the point that I've seen some fans use this as a defence: If you think Twilight is bad, then you must be saying Austen is bad too.

..actually the author of those books herself uses lots of refrences from Austen (and the Brontes) to the point that I've seen some fans use this as a defence: If you think Twilight is bad, then you must be saying Austen is bad too.
This is one of those cases where I'm afraid an author deliberately uses extremely obvious Austen references in order to garner instant publicity and catch the reader's eye. But yes, this might also introduce a new audience to Austen's books and help them realize the mighty difference between the classic and the book that uses the classic to sell itself.

I will admit that as an Austen fan, this (http://dazzledbytwilight.com/wp-content/uploads/wpsc/product_images/9780061964367.jpg) saddened and annoyed me incredibly.

I will admit that as an Austen fan, this (http://dazzledbytwilight.com/wp-content/uploads/wpsc/product_images/9780061964367.jpg) saddened and annoyed me incredibly.

When I see those books I wish I could obliviate my memory. :yuhup:

On the one hand, I do think that changing the covers of those books might make more people read them. But at the same time, I wonder if that would just cause people to make bad comparisons between Austen's books and other books.

Of course not. But I won't fall into the other extreme either and believe everyone just wants the best for everyone. We can only speculate about people's intention when they say something.
You assume they have good intentions. I am rather sceptical. That's all. Austen may have had an impact on chicklit and that's nothing to be ashamed of. However, saying that she had an impact on modern chicklit and classifying her works as chicklit is quite a different thing and the latter is more problematic, IMO. I'm not saying you do that I'm saying that there are critics with such tendencies. They may not do that because of sexism either since many of them are women. It's all about different ways of regarding Austen and to some her books are all about nice girls meeting handsome men.

I think I might actually be the more amused by the course of this discussion, mostly because in most discussions, I'm not the one who assumes people have good intentions. Quite the contrary - I actually have a very negative view of about 90% of people, but an increased appreciation for the remaining 10%. I don't like to assert pride or arrogance, but I think Darcy's quote from the 1995's adaptation, "But your approval is rarely bestowed, and therefore, more worth the earning" would seem to apply to both of us.

I sort of think this extends to the community of Austen fans, though, and that we both think some people in it have bad intentions - we just think it about different people. I think those who use certain critical analyses of her work to advance a "women are the most oppressed people anywhere" agenda are the ones with bad intentions, while I think the "chicklit" advocates are simply misguided, and that the Austenites (the ones who fully understand how to read her tone, the historical context of her writing, her social critiques, etc.) are the ones I'd rather be around. (I went with a bunch of those from RoP to the Austen display at the Morgan Library back in January, and it was one of the best days I had in months... even though I was new to the group and felt a little left out. It probably didn't help that they said many of their "retreat"-style events are for women only.) I may be wrong, but the impression I get is you think it's the chicklit advocates and literary community who have the bad intentions, the social agenda people are the ones you'd rather be around, and the Austenites either choose not to get involved or occasionally fall into the latter camp. So in a way, both of us believe good and bad intentions about somewhat sizable portions of the community (depending on how one defines that term) of Austen readers.

I sort of think this extends to the community of Austen fans, though, and that we both think some people in it have bad intentions - we just think it about different people. I think those who use certain critical analyses of her work to advance a "women are the most oppressed people anywhere" agenda are the ones with bad intentions, while I think the "chicklit" advocates are simply misguided, and that the Austenites (the ones who fully understand how to read her tone, the historical context of her writing, her social critiques, etc.) are the ones I'd rather be around. (I went with a bunch of those from RoP to the Austen display at the Morgan Library back in January, and it was one of the best days I had in months... even though I was new to the group and felt a little left out. It probably didn't help that they said many of their "retreat"-style events are for women only.) I may be wrong, but the impression I get is you think it's the chicklit advocates and literary community who have the bad intentions, the social agenda people are the ones you'd rather be around, and the Austenites either choose not to get involved or occasionally fall into the latter camp. So in a way, both of us believe good and bad intentions about somewhat sizable portions of the community (depending on how one defines that term) of Austen readers.

I'm not sure if it's about people having good or bad intentions. They simply have different opinions about something. I don't consider myself a paranoid hag who just wants to accuse someone of being sexist and like I said most people who compare Austen to chicklit are the chicklit writers themselves who are mostly women. That being said the more serious literary critics (who are mostly men) do tend to shove most literature written by and about women into the chicklit category whether it belongs there or not. And when that happens it's important to actually know their motivations for doing so.
To me personally, calling someone's work chicklit does not have a particularly positive connotation which is why I don't want that happening to Austen. I just think chicklit is in most cases bad literature, but it can be fun and entertaining. However, as I said before I have no problem with anyone saying they were inspired by Austen's writing. After all when it comes to role models for writing romance, you could do much worse.

I will admit that as an Austen fan, this saddened and annoyed me incredibly.
I agree and that's actually more detrimental to literature in general than the accusations of sexism. I get the intention behind that cover (making people who aren't necessarily interested in classics read good lit anyway) but it's not worth trivializing a classic just to do that. Maybe some people will actually realize how much better Austen is than Meyer or any other writer like her but I'm not sure how many readers will see that. It seems to me that writers such as Austen and the Brontes are being slightly degraded by comparisons to Twilight and to other such novels.

It seems to me that writers such as Austen and the Brontes are being slightly degraded by comparisons to Twilight and to other such novels.

I agree, and I think the "chick-lit" label does the same. From my experience, most people associate chick-lit with romance, and (most importantly) purely romantic stories. This completely ignores the other events and themes Austen is going for, placing the focus solely on the romantic relationships. And the comparison to Twilight is only going to worsen this, IMHO. Twilight is romance. Yes, Meyer attempts to paste together a plot at the end, but only really as a vehicle for more of Edward Cullen's "I love you/want to eat you" angst, and I think the fans get this: Edward is really what the vast majority of them talk about. Perhaps I'm making generalizations about Meyer's readership (I know there are a few out there who actually try to give it meaning, and good on them :tu:), but I can easily imagine the pre-pubescent majority approaching Austen by skipping past half the dialogue just to get to the lead man, and paying attention only to how he and the heroine interact. By doing so, they'd miss about three-quarters of what Austen is trying to say.


BTW, it's a bit sad how so many good books are shunted aside by the chick-lit label. I was rereading Jane Eyre a couple months ago, and I mentioned to my dad that it was quite good. He promptly dismissed that with the chick-lit label, having no clue just how multifaceted a story it is and never having read it. :grumble:

It seems to me that writers such as Austen and the Brontes are being slightly degraded by comparisons to Twilight and to other such novels.

I think I must now grant you the Luna Lovegood memorial "Understatement of the Year" aware.

but I can easily imagine the pre-pubescent majority approaching Austen by skipping past half the dialogue just to get to the lead man, and paying attention only to how he and the heroine interact. By doing so, they'd miss about three-quarters of what Austen is trying to say.

This IMO is also the problem with the 2005 P&P movie, and the only flaw with the 1995 S&S movie (although it has so much in beautiful aesthetics that I actually don't even care how loyal the latter is to the book). The P&P movie sort of skimmed through many of the major story passages and cut about half the major characters, while relegating most of the remainder to a minor role, while keeping very little of the sardonic tone. Some of Keira's lines were really the only wit in that version, and hers weren't nearly as subtle as the original writing. Granted, I suppose when the BBC had to take six hours to put together a mostly loyal adaptation, one can hardly expect a 2 hour movie to get everything right, but I would've at least expected the tone to be closer. It's still fun to watch though at times - I have to be the only person alive who actually thinks Matthew's version of Darcy's vocal tone and behavior (though not the screenplay's version of his actions/dialogue) was closer to the book than Colin's.

Posted by APolaris:
I have to be the only person alive who actually thinks Matthew's version of Darcy's vocal tone and behavior (though not the screenplay's version of his actions/dialogue) was closer to the book than Colin's.

I won't dare to say whose vocal tone is the best (my English isn't that good, I feel happy just with understanding them), but I admit that for me Matthew MacFayden is the best of the 2005 version. I think however that both he and Colin make excellent Darcies, only different. To begin with, Colin Firth had six hours to develop the character and he could afford to make him more odious at the beginning and soften him later (whether that was accurate or not, I don't know; it works very well on the screen). On the other hand, Matthew had less time and he had to be more sober in the stiff part in order to turn into 'lovely-mode' in a natural enough way. Agreed anyway that Matthew makes it easier to believe that part of Darcy's stiffness is actually shyness, and that at the proposal scene (the first one, I mean), he makes Darcy's struggle between anger and manners much more authentic. Heavens, he looks like he's at the point either of kissing or slapping her on the face.

Changing books, I borrowed Emma from the library last week (again; I needed something funny), and I'm surprised at how differently JA treats children in each book. In S&S children are usually an annoyance or a useful tool to go on visiting and not running out of topics to talk of; in Persuasion she barely speaks of them but as a source of noise. In Emma, however, you see her and Mr Knightley playing with their nephews in a most natural way. Mr Knightley is (as far as I remember) the only male character in JA's books that really seems to like children. Though I suppose we very seldom see Austen's gentlemen in contact with children...

I have to be the only person alive who actually thinks Matthew's version of Darcy's vocal tone and behavior (though not the screenplay's version of his actions/dialogue) was closer to the book than Colin's.
Nope, you're not alone. I prefer Macfadyen's Darcy to Firth's. I think he pulled off the brooding, arrogant yet passionate nature of book-Darcy much better than Firth did, and in a shorter time.

I agree and that's actually more detrimental to literature in general than the accusations of sexism. I get the intention behind that cover (making people who aren't necessarily interested in classics read good lit anyway) but it's not worth trivializing a classic just to do that. Maybe some people will actually realize how much better Austen is than Meyer or any other writer like her but I'm not sure how many readers will see that. It seems to me that writers such as Austen and the Brontes are being slightly degraded by comparisons to Twilight and to other such novels.
I agree with every word of this :tu:

This discussion on who brings out the better Darcy actually brings me to one of my two big questions on Austen's work: the P&P question, namely.

There seem to be two schools of thought regarding Darcy's character:

School 1: Takes the narrative at face value. P&P is about a Darcy whose defining trait is an overwhelming self-pride and Lizzy is just righteously prejudiced because of what he said at their first meeting. The rest of the book is then about Darcy changing and showing her how much he's changed. Best backed up by some of his closing remarks in the book, which didn't make it into the adaptations, such as his thanking Lizzy for showing him the error of his ways.

School 2: Treats the narrative as though it reflects Lizzy's perspective at that point in the story. Early in the story, Lizzy believes Darcy is proud because she is herself proud, so the narrative reflects that, and as the story develops, you find out Darcy is "prejudice," not "pride." His casual, not-proud behavior around the Bingleys, Georgiana, and his housekeeper is more like his real self than his behavior around the "lower" classes, by whose behavior he is simply annoyed (rightly so for the most part) and therefore prejudiced. And other than the first meeting and the first proposal, what does he really do that's so proud?

I personally lean towards a melding of the two schools into one interpretation, in which both of them have some pride and some prejudice, and the narrative is a mix of those two schools.

BTW, it's a bit sad how so many good books are shunted aside by the chick-lit label. I was rereading Jane Eyre a couple months ago, and I mentioned to my dad that it was quite good. He promptly dismissed that with the chick-lit label, having no clue just how multifaceted a story it is and never having read it. :grumble:

You're right, Iggy. Too many people think that some good books are just "a romance novel" and dismiss them without knowing them. That's why I don't want Austen's book being considered just as "a romance". :no:

1. How did you first get to know of Jane Austen? Emma was one of the set texts for my Leaving Cert, I re-read the book nearly as soon as I bought it and I loved it - which made me want to go read more Austen and her like. I was 16/17 at that point but I had read Emma a couple of times, probably prompted by the Palthrow adaptation and Clueless as well.


2. How many of Austen's books have you read? Which is your favourite and least favourite?
All multiple times, Northanger Abbey is one I just never really warmed to. Persuasion I think is my favourite.

3. Favourite and least favourite characters? Austen does the "baddies" very very well. The Eltons are just so loathsome, very enjoyable if you follow so they rank up there, as does Lady Catherine. I think Captain Tilney from Northanger Abbey and all the Thorpes in general rank as the characters I dislike the most but a lot of that more than likely stems from the fact I don't really like the book as much as the others.

Anne Elliot I think is my most loved heroine of all of them.

4. If you had to point out only two reasons for liking/disliking Austen, what would they be? I couldn't think of any off the top of my head to dislike Austen. One of the best reasons to love her though are her observations and wit. While fashions and styles may change, people fundamentally remain the same, their reasons for doing things remain the same, their motivations remain the same. From that aspect, although the books are now part of what are referred to as the classics, they remain very current.

5. Do you have a favourite Austen quote?
Oh so many, the opening of Pride and Prejudice is wonderful "It is a truth universally acknowledged, that a single man in possession of a good fortune, must be in want of a wife", there are periods of lovely interchange between Mr Knightly and Emma that I love - if I were to quote them here I would be transcribing pages and boring you all so I won't :lol:

I like to throw in a turn about the room every now and then :D or having some compassion on my poor nerves. There's another good one from Emma - "I always deserve the best treatment because I never put up with any other." - words to live by.


6. Do you believe Jane Austen would not be as popular or 'commercial' as she is today, if not for a certain BBC adaptation and the slew of films/TV series that followed?
Its hard to know, I loved Austen before I heard of the Pride and Prejudice adaptation but I think that she'd not have quite the same widespread appeal, adaptations I think introduced Austen to a new audience which isn't a bad thing at all. Taking the classics and opening peoples eyes to the wonderful works of the English language - removing the mystery can only be a good thing.

7. Do you like the idea of Austen spin-offs and books/movies based on Austen herself or her characters? Have you read/watched any such? Hmmmmmm no I don't. I presume Being Jane is being referred to here, I don't think that they're wholly accurate - if you want to get a view of Austen, read a collection of her letters. They're the best way to do it.

8. Do you think Austen is overrated? If so, why? No!

9. Have you read any biography of Jane Austen or watched any movie/documentary about her life?I've been in Bath twice and I try to do something nice and Jane Austen-y every time I go, I've seen the houses where she lived and all that - does that count?!

I've been in Bath twice and I try to do something nice and Jane Austen-y every time I go, I've seen the houses where she lived and all that - does that count?!
Ooh yes indeed! That sounds lovely (I'm envious :p). Bath acts as an important setting in Austen's books too (Persuasion and Northanger Abbey, I think) so I'd definitely love to visit and get a feel of the place.

BTW, it's a bit sad how so many good books are shunted aside by the chick-lit label. I was rereading Jane Eyre a couple months ago, and I mentioned to my dad that it was quite good. He promptly dismissed that with the chick-lit label, having no clue just how multifaceted a story it is and never having read it. :grumble:
:wow: Has he been talking to John Thorpe??

ETA: I forgot why I came here :rotfl:

I'm eventually going to be writing about Persuasion. Well, sort of. My task is to discuss (of all things) how Austen felt about the Navy by examining the various Captains and the Admiral. The problem is I'm having trouble getting past what Anne and other characters seem to think. I mean, none of the opinions about those guys is particularly objective, and I'm not sure how the way they were each written will lead me toward any kind of conclusion. Better read again :lol:

I'm eventually going to be writing about Persuasion. Well, sort of. My task is to discuss (of all things) how Austen felt about the Navy by examining the various Captains and the Admiral. The problem is I'm having trouble getting past what Anne and other characters seem to think. I mean, none of the opinions about those guys is particularly objective, and I'm not sure how the way they were each written will lead me toward any kind of conclusion. Better read again :lol:

Interesting! They seem rather positive characters, I think, in Persuasion. There's also Mansfield Park, with almost all men from Fanny's family, and the Crawfords' uncle... lots of people serving on the ships.

I casually had a look at Mansfiled Park this weekend and got suddenly struck by an idea: could Filch's Mrs Norris owe her name to JA's very unnoying and unpleasant character?

I casually had a look at Mansfiled Park this weekend and got suddenly struck by an idea: could Filch's Mrs Norris owe her name to JA's very unnoying and unpleasant character?

I read Mansfield Park before I read HP and that's what I always assumed.

I casually had a look at Mansfiled Park this weekend and got suddenly struck by an idea: could Filch's Mrs Norris owe her name to JA's very unnoying and unpleasant character?

I think JKR spoke somewhere about that... anyway, she's an Austen fan, so I think that's the only possible explanation.

I guess I missed the official Austen week, but better late than never. :p

1. How did you first get to know of Jane Austen?
I think I began wanting to read Pride and Prejudice after seeing people talk about it on here; it was the first Austen I read

2. How many of Austen's books have you read? Which is your favourite and least favourite?
I have read Pride and Prejudice, Northanger Abbey, and I'm about 85% done with Mansfield Park. P&P is definitely my favorite.

3. Favourite and least favourite characters?
Darcy and Lizzy have to be two favorites. There aren't any characters I particularly like in the other two, and I generally just dislike the characters we're supposed to dislike -- Mr. Collins, Mrs. Norris, etc.

4. If you had to point out only two reasons for liking/disliking Austen, what would they be?
One of my favorite things about her writing is the dialogue. There are some scenes that will make me squee and laugh however many times I read them. I guess other than that, how one can relate some of the themes to current life -- love is timeless. ;)

5. Do you have a favourite Austen quote?
"Is not general incivility the very essence of love?" -P&P

8. Do you think Austen is overrated? If so, why?
No, no, no. Impossible!