Could Petunia be a witch that got expelled from Hogwarts?

We know how much Petunia loathes her late sister Lily. But does she really think wizards are freaks? Or could she be jealous of her sister? Because Lily was a witch and Petunia is a muggle? Petunia knows far too much about the wizarding world for being a simple muggle! I cannot imagine, that Petunia knows what Dementors are, simply because she heard James mention them once (as she mentions). So, could it be that Petunia knows so much about the magical world, because she once was a part of it?

Could it be, that Petunia once was a Hogwarts student herself???

Her being expelled and her wand destroyed could explain the jealousy she feels towards her dead sister. Perhaps Petunia did something really bad and was not only expelled from school, but sent to Azkaban!!!! Then she would know EXACTLY what a Dementor is! It would also mean, that she hides her magical heritage from Vernom and Dursley. (':??:')

I've always thought about that and then said to myself "no, that would be way too weird." but the way you put it it makes sense....a little far fetched but still possible.

there is a post similar to this one already, you should read that one.

She may be, but Snape called Lily a Mudblood (I don't like the sound of that word:angry: ) but now that I think of it the Colin brothers are muggleborns aren't they? well maybe you do have a point and Petunia is an expelled wicth...who knows? pretty weird though...

I think she was... there is something about her house being too clean, so maybe she used magic on it like Hagrid does.

yea i was thinking something along the lines of that. she's just to anti-magic that you wonder sometimes. hopefully it'll be discussed more upon in the next book

Intresting idea. I am sure there is something about her that we do not know...yet.

I think y'all are reading too much into it. She's just a squib. If she had been (at least partially) Hogwarts-trained, she might have known who Arbella Figg was. Of course, nothing says she didn't know exactly who Figg was.

There's something more to Petunia than we are know. (**** JKR for keeping this a secret, I really need to know what's up with Petunia.) The possibility of her being expelled is interesting. After all when Harry mentioned the Dementors, she said she heard James mention them, but the way she acted it was like she knew more about them than a mere mention. It is possible that she is a squib, but I'm not sure I can see both sides of the arguments on this and don't know where to stand.

I really think that Petunia is a Squib. There's a lot of evidence that siblings are always either all Muggle, or all magical. Because Lily was a Muggle-born witch I have a feeling that Petunia should have been a witch too. Part of the reason for her anger because she knew she should be a witch. Obviously Lily will start telling her everything about the wizarding world and she's bound to remember the stuff her sister tells her.

I hope that made sense. But that's my theory.

I agree with GaryGag that Petunia is a Squib. That explains why she's so bitter about magic (like Filch) and why she knew what dementors were. But then again, that doesn't make sense. If that's true, then why has everyone (Hagrid, Snape) said that Lily was muggle-born? I don't think all those people would not know the truth or lie. On second thought, I think Petunia is exactly what we always thought her to be: a muggle who had a witch for a sister and was jealous. I don't know if Petunia was jealous that Lily could do magic, or just that Lily got all her parents' attention because of that. But then how would Petunia know what dementors were? Maybe she had a run-in with them (sort of like Dudley did).

its a possibility.
but she just reconized the word "dementator" its not like she knew all these facts about them, its very possible that she just over heard james talking about them and remembered it.

Yeah. If thats true she was probably shocked because she remembered something about the wizarding world. I sure hope it isn't though...

It's a possibility. Both Creavy boys (muggle parents) turned out to be Wizards. But I think we would have heard about Petunia from someone. Everyone knew Lily, why wouldn't they have known Petunia.

As far as we know you don't need to have wizard blood to be able to hear words like dementors used in conversation.

No you don't. But I for one am not completely satisfied with the explaination to the Petunia/dementor/Azkaban/Howler scene. I think there is more to her knowledge of the wizarding world then she lets on. Although it could come from pure jealousy. I sure would be jealous if my sister was a witch and I wasn't.

Petunia is a nosy little thing though. She has an urge to find out what people are up to.
She could have learned things that way. Things that scared her.

She is quite the busy body. I can see here evesdropping on Lily and James when they were younger. This is off topic, but why were Lily and James talking about dementors and Azkaban. That doesn't seem like a normal conversation to have, especially as I imagine James was visiting Lily at home, kind of a meet the parents, date-like situation.

Originally posted by samwitch (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?postid=419854#post419854))
I really think that Petunia is a Squib.


This has been discussed several times in these forums. Petunia can not be a Squib because her parents were Muggles.

However, I do agree that there is something more to Petunia than we know. I thought that she might be a witch who did not have enough magical powers to attend Hogwarts. Neville mentioned somewhere, I think SS, that his family was afraid that he might not be "magic enough" to be accepted to Hogwarts. This bit of magic, although small, would give Petunia knowledge of the wizarding world.

I agree that Petunia is a witch. In my theory--- Some event made her bitter to the wizarding world (jealousy, expulsion, perhaps, or being a death eater, or even just really not liking it) and, in my theory, Lily cast a fidelius charm on Petunia, the secret being that she was a witch. Then noone, not even her, would know that she was a witch- but her bitterness and certain unrelated bits of knowledge remained(knowledge of demetors, for example.) Thus, our lovable Petunia ;)

i think petunia is a witch actually because remember when she said she heard james talking about the dementors and thats how she knows about them? well when she said that, i was thinking, why was she even with lily and james if she hated them so much?

Not to burst anyone's bubble but...

on page 53 of The Sorcerer's Stone, Petunia says,

"Knew! Of course we knew! How could you not be, my dratted sister being what she was? Oh, she got a letter just like that and disappeared off to that --- that school --- and came home every vacation with her pockets full of frog spawn, turning teacups into rats. I was the only one who saw her for what she was --- a freak! But for my mother and father, oh no, it was Lily this and Lily that, they were proud of having a witch in the family!"

The possibility of Petunia getting kicked out of or even being in Hogwarts is about the same possibility of Harry dying in the Order of the Phoenix.

Nice theory. I think she is. I would be really surprised if she was a wirch. I really like this theory. Keep it coming.

I think she is a witch, but she did not attend hogwarts. That would be weird, harry would have found out by now.

I think petunia actually loves harry, beleive it or not. I think that she will need to come to harry's rescue in a future book.

No, I think if Petunia attended Hogwarts and got expelled, she would at least have known a few of the rules- like how the students can't use magic outside of school. Otherwise she wouldn't have felt so threatened and afraid of Harry's powers when he came home from school for the summer after his first year. Petunia could have experienced other things that made her knowledgeable about the wizarding world, but I don't think attending Hogwarts is one of them :)

i don't know but she could have heard things but maybe she really is an expelled witch or maybe she is a witch but just hated being one because lily was better or soemthing. Maybe she was expelled. Maybe she is a squib. Or maybe she is just an ordinary person. Though if one muggle born child is a witch then wouldn't that mean that all of his/her brothers or sisters would also be witches/wizards. Well im not sure but rowling sure is hiding something

I have always thought Petunia was jealous of Lily for some reason. I bet she knows more about the magical world. We will find out....BUT WHEN!!!! lol.

Perhaps Petunia had to go to King's Cross with her parents to put Lily on the train, as Dudley has with his parents to send Harry off. While there she meets Snape and they fall in love. During term, they exchange owls, and on holidays, they get together. She likes the mysterious wickedness (just as too da*ned many women on these fora do!), but as she learns just how evil he was going, she rejected him. At first, snape is relieved, as it frees him of the self-loathing that comes from feeling affection toward a muggle, but then he hates himself more for letting the iwnsome Petunia out of his life. Snape is further scarred by this experience, and particularly resents James because James' life turned out just the opposite, winning the affections of the Evans' girl he fancied.

Okay i know this is a bit long, but read it...:

I know it sounds a bit weird, but we're spetaculating here, right ?

What if Petunia was a Death-Eater ... ok, so there is no proof but it would fit fine ...

From the beginning:

The Evans was a mugglefamily . They had two daughters, Petunia and Lily.

Petunia was sorted into Slytherin. Lily started at Hogwarts and she was sorted into Gryffindor... she was pretty and popular, the parents was proud at her, and Petunia was jealous. So Petunia started hanging out with the "bad guys" in Slytherin.....

Petunia left from Hogwarts, leaving Lily to fall in love with James, and Petunia became a Death-Eater... she still lived at home with mummy and daddy ...

So Lily ran of with James, she tried to convince her parents about that Petunia was baaad, but they (they were muggles, remember) didn't believe her.

Petunia came into Voldemorts inner circle, but then she finally realised that she was going the wrong way ... she escaped Voldemort two years before Voldemort was defeated by Harry ...

She found Veron and told him about her sister, but never about herself, she said that she loaded magic, and the magicworld, then she married him and had Dudley as soon as they were married.

Lily and Petunia had for a long time had no contact, and at Hogwarts almost no people knew that they were related. Lily had Harry, and Petunia had Dudley.

Voldemort wanted Petunia killed but Petunia escaped the Death-Eaters, maybe by using a secret-keeper?

Then Harry almost killed Voldemort.

Petunia thought that now she would finally have peace, but then in book 5 ... in chapter two

quote :

'Lord Voldemort' said Harry
'Lord - hang on' said uncle Vernon ' I've heard that name ... that was the one who -"
"Murdered my parants, yes' Harry said dully
'But he's gone' said uncle Vernon.
'He's back' said Harry heavily.

'Back?' whisperd Aunt Petunia.
She was looking at Harry as she had never looked at him before. And all of a sudden for the very first time in his life, Harry fully appreciated that Aunt Petunia was his mother’s sister.
He could not have said why this hit him so powerfully at this moment.
All he knew was that he was not the only person in the room who had an inkling of what Lord Voldemort being back mean. Aunt Petunia had never in her life looked at him like that before.
Her large, pale eyes were not narrowed in dislike or anger, they were wide and fearful. The furious pretence that Aunt Petunia had maintained all Harry's life - that there was no magic and no world other than the world she inhabited with uncle Vernon - seemed to have fallen away.

The reason why Petunia is scared is because she knows that now she is not safe from Voldemort anymore...!

Objection against this theori: "How come Petunia sorted in Slytherin if she changed side?"
Answer: Remember Snape... he changed side too. ...

Objection 2: how come almost no one at Hogwars knew that Petunia and Lilt was sisters … ?
Answer: Petunia – Slytherin Lily – Gryffindor. Petunia – pale eyes, Lily – bright green eyes. Petunia – blond hair, Lily ginger hair .

I think it would be really funny if Harry, when he got his OWLs heard something from one of the teachers about how many OWLs his mom and her sister got...?

Well i don't know if i belive this myself ... but you never know ...

Everbody knows that Lily was a witch.
What I heard is that Petunia had magic but didn't have enough of it to get into Hogwarts. Then when she got jealous (she is) of Lily, all her power somehow dissapeared.
I don't remember where I got this from, all I remember is that I read it somewhere on the internet.

Okay, I was mostly joking about a Snape/Petunia romance (I suppose we could find out ...), but it has occurred to me that if Petunia had been a witch sent to Azkaban, she may have lost all her magical powers. Lupin in PoA said that this is what happens to magical people when they are around dementors for a significant period of time.

Aah, but there was another thread that pointed out that the Dementors were with Voldy until baby Harry destroyed him, so if she was around dementors, it was at Voldy's hand, because by the time Voldy fell, Petunia was already married and caring for baby Dudley. Owww - my brain hurts. I'm sooooo confused

I think everyone is reading too much into this. In my opinion its been made very clear that Lily was muggleborn and had muggle parents and a muggle sister. What we don't know is how close Petunia and Lily were before Lily's death. Maybe she didn't cut ties with Lily until later in life, after Hogwarts during Voldermort's reign before she met Vernon which explains why Vernon never knew the Potters

Very good theory. Honestly I feel like a dope for not thinking of it myself. It would make a lot of sense if Petunia was a witch without "enough magic" to get into a wizarding school. Hmm ... hopefully we won't have to wait until book 7 to find it all out. As for Petunia being an Ex-Death-Eater-Turned-Good-Guy ... doubtful, very doubtful. I think that she might now a bit of the magic world since she did get a letter from Dumbledore, most likely explaining what had happened at Godric's Hollow, and who Lord Voldemort was, etc.

A friend of mine has a theory that the Evans are a long line of Squibs, so long that people starting thinking they were Muggles. It could explain why Petunia hates magic so much, not to mention Lily because she isn't a witch herself and their parents were always so proud of their other daughter.

I like your theory and before OotP I would have agreed with you completely. But if Lily is from a magical family, why would Snape call her a mudblood? Wait, it just made sense, Lily could have come from a magical family, but both she and Petunia were witches!!!! Ah, you are brilliant! Yes, now that I think about it more I think Petunia was a witch! I wonder what she could have done to make her be expelled? OR maybe she was a death eater (doubt it though)?

Okay,

Everyone knew that Lily was a witch. But who is everyone? Those who are connected to the Order? Well, please remember that these are the same people who've been continually keeping Harry in the dark.

Just as it was Neville's right to tell the rest of Griffyndor about his folks, it's Aunt Petunia's right to talk (or not) about her abilities.

I just posted that she could very well be the next DADA teacher.

As far as Will Weasley's post about Lily going to "that school", it brings up more questions. Unless the decree of restricted underage wizardry/witchcraft is new, what was Lily doing turning teacups into rats at home?

And if it was in place, than Lily couldn't have done it at home but at school and Petunia wouldn't have seen it unless she had been there as well.

Oh yeah, there's more to Aunt Petunia than meets the eye.

Ok. Assume Petunia is the older daughter in the family, and, though Muggle-born, she gets a Hogwarts letter. She thinks the idea is loony and doesn't wish (or refuses) to go. Lily, a year or two later, got her letter and liked the idea, so went--she overshadowed her older sister Petunia, causing animosity towards Lily from Petunia.

Now, this is all speculative--but it IS possible, and I think it makes sense. It explains how Petunia knew about dementors and such, and also explains why the parents were happy to have a witch in the family. They wanted to experience it--when Petunia couldn't do that for them, Lily could, which made them proud.

What'd'ya think?


linnea

Nah, I don't believe petunia is a witch, for the reasons posted already. She is just the older sibling overpowered from her younger one. It is like, allow me to say like the relationship with Michael and Freddo in the Godfather. If you have watched it, then you already know that the older brother Freddo was always mistreated in a way from the resto of the family and Michael, the youngest brother became eventually the Don and had the power to control his brother, underestimating him and having him do something not important, just to have him out of the big plans of the family buisness. Then finaly, Freddo betrays his young brother and gives him to his assassins.. The assasination fails and Michael reveals to Freddo that he knew he betrayed him. Then Freddo apologised to him by saying he was being used from michaels adversaries and motivated by the fact that he was going for the first time to have some power. Complained to him about how sick he felt for the fact that he was powerless towards his young brother..

Sorry for bothering you with the Godfather excerpt, you may think its irrelevant, but I see into it that something simillar could have happened between Lily and Petunia. I can see Petunia being jealous of her sister, haveing those supernatural powers and being the "best" child in the family while she was being mistreated. And while nosy she is, in the times of the war, could she betray Lily in a similar way Freddo betrayed his brother in the GF? Could she be manipulated by the dark lord, or even why not, threatened by a dementor?! Personaly in the scene were petunia in the Ootp learns about the dementor attack gives me the impression she is recalling a former encounter with one of these creatures. Like her worst fears were coming back. Could she betray her sister under this circumstances and then Dumbledore knows it?

I am just putting the first thoughts, what do you people think? I believe its plausible.

I honestly don't think Petunia is a witch, because of various quotes in the books (for instance, at one point in the first book, Hagrid says something along the lines of, "Some of the best witches and wizards around are the first ones with magic in a long line of Muggles--look at your mum! Look at what she had for a sister!"). I think she's just an ordinary (Muggle) woman, who was jealous of the fact that Lily was a witch and always recieving attention from their parents.

...On the other hand, her explanation for knowing what dementors are still doesn't seem quite right to me. I don't really know why, but it just feels wrong. I do think we'll be learning more about Petunia in the next two books.

Intresting idea. I am sure there is something about her that we do not know...yet.

I agree, and i stumbled across something while rereading OotP last night. A while back i read a post about finding "clues" in sentences that people were unable to complete and on p.869, second to the last page Vernon is talking with Moody and says "I am not aware that it is any of your business what goes on in my house ---" to which Moody replies/interrupts/growls "i expect what you're not aware of would fill several books, Dursley".

Now, what does this mean exactly? Is Moody just insulting Vernon, or is he referring to more, as in what goes on in the house that vernon doesnt know about? Maybe it does have something to do with some powers that Petunia had/has/could have in the future....

I'm just wondering what others think about this....

I think Moody was just being generally insulting. I don't think his comments were referring to a specific future incident involving any "powers" Petunia may (or may not) have.

I adhere to the "Petunia is a Muggle" theory of things. There's absolutely no evidence (aside from a reference to Dementors and raging jealousy) to suggest that she went to Hogwarts. I'm not willing to discount that she might be the one who develops magical powers later in life, however, I find it hard to believe that she was ever a student at Hogwarts.

I doubt she was a student at hogwarts. It wouldn't explain the jealousy if she had been. She wouldn't call Lily "a freak" at any rate.
I think her actions are a result from not having the talents to go to Hogwarts.

No, I think that Petunia is just a regular ol' Muggle, and her sister just happened to be born a witch by chance, and I sincerely doubt that Petunia ever attended Hogwarts. Remember in SS/PS when Petunia spoke of Lily going off to 'that school' every year and coming home with frog spawn in her pockets and such? Just from what I could tell from that passage, it didn't seem like Petunia had a great wealth of knowledge about Hogwarts. I believe that she merely learned about Azkaban and Dementors by eavesdropping on Lily's conversations with her parents or wizard friends when they were children, because, after all, Petunia is a very nosy woman. It would only make sense that she would be a nosy child, too. But those are just my two cents on the matter...

Well, I don't think it as simple as having Petunia just hating magic because her sister could do it and her parents loved it. I think that she might be a Squib, and that their parents weren't really Muggles, or at lest one of them was a wizard that was tied to Salazar Slytherin.

But that still doesn't explian why they both hate magic so much. It may be all right with Petunia to hate magic because she could never do it, but why would Mr. Dursley hate it so much as well?

I read this book called The Hidden Key to Harry Potter. It's kind of weird, but it has this theory as to why the Dursley's hate magic so much.

... the Dursley's are the only characters in the series that are unbelievable; they're ridiculous to the point of burlesque. Given Ms. Rowling's abilitly to draw characters that are simultaneously fantastic and believable, together with her penchant for springing surprises to confound the rush to judgment in her readers, I think it more likely that the Dursley's have a reason to be paranoid about magic. "Reason to be paranoid", of course, points to traumatic experience. blah, blah, blah,

Lily and James were probably never kind to the Dursley's. If Lily was turning her teacups into rats, it is easy to imagine James and Sirius playing more serious pranks. However, I suspect this mischief only laid the foundation for an experience of dark wizardry that would haunt anyone in their right minds: a visit from Voldemort and the Death Eaters. more blah, blah, blah,

Before Voldemort learned from Pettigrew where the Potter's were hiding, it is not unlikely that Voldemort had taken steps to find them on his own? As torturing Muggles was a delight to Voldemort and his followers, I suspect they found the Dursley's and tortured them for whatever knowledge they could extract about James and Lily's whereabouts.

A visit from Voldemort could make you hate and fear the magical forever - especially if the Dark Lord seemed logical progeression of your patronizing and prank-loving in-laws.

We know how much Petunia loathes her late sister Lily. But does she really think wizards are freaks? Or could she be jealous of her sister? Because Lily was a witch and Petunia is a muggle? Petunia knows far too much about the wizarding world for being a simple muggle! I cannot imagine, that Petunia knows what Dementors are, simply because she heard James mention them once (as she mentions). So, could it be that Petunia knows so much about the magical world, because she once was a part of it?

Could it be, that Petunia once was a Hogwarts student herself???

Her being expelled and her wand destroyed could explain the jealousy she feels towards her dead sister. Perhaps Petunia did something really bad and was not only expelled from school, but sent to Azkaban!!!! Then she would know EXACTLY what a Dementor is! It would also mean, that she hides her magical heritage from Vernom and Dursley. (':??:')
I doubt it in the book it says how proud the her parents were when Lily got the letter it never said anything about her getting one. And What would Petunia do to get kicked out or get sent to Askaban. And maybe Lily told her about dementors also trying to scare her or something. Then again you might be right we find many surprises in the books like Mark Evans for example we may find out that he is Harry's cousin or something and she is trying to hide it from him. Mark Evans may even go to Hogwarts and we learn about it in Harry's sixth year. THey also had a theory of Vernon being a wizard in one of the topics.

I think maybe the reason Aunt Petunia is so fearful of the news that Voldemort is back is not because she was a witch herself but because Lily was a witch. Think about it this way, when Voldemort was at full power and he was doing terrible things surely Lily would have told her family about what was going on. Hermione tells her family all the things that are going on with the wizarding world. (Well minus the stuff about the Order). So if Voldemorts killing off whole families then surely Petunia would know about it. She would be frightened because he was back also because he was the one that killed her sister. I mean she may not have gotten along with Lily but that doesnt mean she couldn't love her. Its true that Dumbledore could have told Petunia what had happened which would make it that much worse for her to hear that Voldemort was back because she knows the destruction he can cause. Its personal to her.

Hmm, interesting! I actually like this theory more than the "Petunia-as-Squib" theory. I do believe that Lily and Petunia's parents were Muggles, since Harry is a half-blood, and it fits into the whole theme of not needing to be a pure blood to be powerful, etc. However, I do agree that there's something MAJOR that we don't know about Petunia, relating to her knowledge of magic (come on, those were mega-slip-ups on her part in "Dudley Demented"! She knows about dementors, she fears LV, she got a Howler refering to the past ... there's something fishy here!) Does anyone know if it's possible for a witch or wizard to be stripped of their powers? Perhaps this is what happened to Petunia, which could explain why she hates magic so much but seems to know a great deal about it... just a theory, but it's plausible.

About time some one agreed with me! I wrote a fan-fic about this and have been screaming it from the roof tops for ages! I'm glad I'm not alone in this idea.

I think everyone is reading too much into this. In my opinion its been made very clear that Lily was muggleborn and had muggle parents and a muggle sister. What we don't know is how close Petunia and Lily were before Lily's death. Maybe she didn't cut ties with Lily until later in life, after Hogwarts during Voldermort's reign before she met Vernon which explains why Vernon never knew the Potters
I agree and want to add that Petunia's installment in the series was just to show how jealousy and spitefulness can cause a rift between relations, and that even the envy that Petunia showed towards her sister still passed on to Harry. If JKR wanted to show 7 deadly sins in the series, Petunia really cuts it well with envy.
ETA: she may fear magic and all that it entails, but I'm sure there's a part of her that wants to "know" all about it and wishes it deep down. Who knows. Sometimes what you fear, is highly curious and exciting. Sort of like the drug of wanting to watch scary movies, and going on a roller coaster, etc. Or in more deeper terms, Eve wanting to know the knowledge of the world by tasting the fruit, disregarding the fear of God's wrath. Although the fear is there, it's curiousity that is wanting.

I think that Petunia maybe is really a witch and she got expelled. And she's just jealous because in SS she said something about Lily being 'perfect' and Lily's parents being 'proud'. Or maybe Petunia liked James when she was at Hogwarts but James didn't liked Petunia but her sister, which is Lily. And so she got jealousand went over to the dark side... Hmm... I really like this forum... Well, I hope Petunia is a witch so Uncle Vernon will stop maltreating Harry.

"ALAS,EARWAX"

Or maybe she was a witch but didn't have a plea to this. Maybe she chosed to live like a muggle, hate magic etc.? Maybe she just doesn't accept who she is, and have complexes for it?

Aunt Petunia is not a squib; we know that now.
I think she may have gone to Hogwarts, but either got expelled or dropped out. After that she may have modified her memory to block out all magic, and since hated all things magical. Memory charms can be broken, so that explains why she is beginning to remember.
And one more thing...why else would Lockhart have his memory modified? That incident, and the one of Bertha Jorkins, could contain clues.

The reason Petunia knows more than most muggles about the wizarding world is because her sister was a witch. There's no way she could have lived in the same house as Lily and come away with no more knowledge than if Lily was a muggle. J.K. Rowling has said that Petunia is a muggle. That means she isn't a witch.

if lily was a wich, why wasn't petunia a wich? Also, about Ms. figg, I don't think that they knew she was related to magical purposes because in the book it says that she had to be mean to harry and stay ''undercover'' but that cover was blown in book 5.

i somehow doubt that petunia ever attended hogwarts. if she recieved a letter, i would assume she'd send it right back. oh, i read this fic by my friend kewii once, and it was a fantastic one-parter about petunia getting a letter to hogwarts. it's called "what grown-ups believe" and it's very well done. :) i suggest you all read it, once i find the link...

if lily was a wich, why wasn't petunia a wich? Also, about Ms. figg, I don't think that they knew she was related to magical purposes because in the book it says that she had to be mean to harry and stay ''undercover'' but that cover was blown in book 5.

Petunia isn't a witch because J.K. Rowling said she isn't.

Petunia isn't a witch because J.K. Rowling said she isn't.
It's a little like banging your head on the wall.

Here I will reinforce what HL just said. JKR has said that Petunia is a muggle. Muggle. Muggle. Notice, I am refraining from yelling. But it is close.

I fail to see what the big deal is about Petunia recognising a wizarding word. She grew up in a house with a witch after all, and we know Lily and Petunia's parents didn't share Petunia's shame/hatred of Lily's magical abilities so we can assume that when Lily came home for holidays she would have chattered away about her classes, her friends and all the things she was learning about the Wizarding world. It's also fairly likely that Lily sent letters home during the school year and one of their parents would have read snippets of them out to the rest of the family, and Lily probably got the Daily Prophet delivered during the holidays also...

I don't know what the hell you all are talking about Petunia as a potential witch . But in my opinion she is a no-no for being a witch. Hasn't JKR said that Pet. is a muggle at th Edinburgh Book Festival.For me words of JKR count and so I believe Aunt Pet. to be a muggle. JKR has told us that she ain't a witch nor a squib but she is a muggle,but she hasn't told us that Petunia's marriage with Vernon is her first one. It maybe that she had earlier married a wizard. Just a wild thought.

I thought that it was pretty clear that she wasn't, right? Why would she have gotten expelled? If she thought that Lily was so much of a freak for going, would she have gone, too? I don't think that she was at all.

I think that JKR could have just used the word muggle since there wasn't anything else she could call her with out giving away the fact that she is a witch who was expelled. I think that Petunia will play a very important part in the ending if the series.

i dont think she is

I think that JKR could have just used the word muggle since there wasn't anything else she could call her with out giving away the fact that she is a witch who was expelled. I think that Petunia will play a very important part in the ending if the series.
No then JKR wouldn't have answered the question. She wouldn't answer it with what was essentially a lie. She would have declined to answer which is what she has done in the past.

No way. I so dont think that Petunia's a witch! That's just an easy way of explaining her strange behaviour at times and it can't be right! But I do agree that there is something about her. i think that she has had some kind of involvement in the magical world that Uncle Vernon doesn't know about. And I also think she wil have an important role in future books.

hi,

i'm begining to like the idea that Petunia is a witch who does and always has loathed magic for whatever reasons and since before she was eleven. maybe for the fear of being "different". she certainly does seem to throw herself into being normal with gusto.

when she got her letter from Hogwarts she may well have refused to attend because of this loathing she had, and disliked the fact that Lily did accept hers and enjoyed school. maybe she got really jealous at missing her chance.

this would explain her knowledge of the wizarding world, and also why she has never being seen doing magic i.e. she actively avoids using whatever skills she does have. it would certainly explain her fear at hearing of Voldermorts return, and subsequent caving in to Dumbledore's Last as she knew perfectly well what all this meant.

also she wouldn't necessarily know Figg was a squib and not a muggle if Figg did not give any indication she knew about anything other than the muggle world. even Harry did not know Filch was a squib and not a wizard until the day he found the corrospondence on Filch's desk.

I doubt that Petunia is a full fledge witch or even squib, but I do believe that she is more important in the wizarding world than just a sister of a witch. Maybe she even helped the order through Lily as a muggle spy? Also, have you ever noticed that Lily and Petunia are named after flowers? Maybe this plays a role in the books.

I doubt Petunia is a witch, but there can be a possibility that, since we don't know much about Lily and Petunia's parents, Petunia could possibly be a squib. That could be part of the reason why she was so jealous when she and her parents found out that Lily was a witch and went off to Hogwarts. We'd have to know more about Petunia and Lily from before Lily went to Hogwarts to figure out whether Petunia really is a witch that possibly got expelled from Hogwarts. We'd have to know more about Petunia's parents as well because we don't know anything of them at the moment.

If you look a few earlier pages in this thread you'd see that JKR has shot down Petunia being a squib or a muggle in her Edinburgh interview. Nor is Lily or Petunia adopted since Petunia offers blood protection to Harry.

JK clearly said that Petunia is a muggle...

Just wondering but didnt Jk say that there was something about Aunt Petunia we did not know and she kinda left a few blank. I cant remeber where i saw it but did any of you hear anything similar?

She said the following at the Edinburgh Book Festival Is Aunt Petunia a Squib?

Good question. No, she is not, but—[Laughter]. No, she is not a Squib. She is a Muggle, but—[Laughter]. You will have to read the other books. You might have got the impression that there is a little bit more to Aunt Petunia than meets the eye, and you will find out what it is. She is not a squib, although that is a very good guess. Oh, I am giving a lot away here. I am being shockingly indiscreet.

I think the something more is that she had a lot more contact with the wizarding world than we previously thought. Also if I am right about Harry being the heir of Gryffindor, then Petunia and Dudley would also be heirs even if they aren't magical. That would make her special.

I think the something more is that she had a lot more contact with the wizarding world than we previously thought. Also if I am right about Harry being the heir of Gryffindor, then Petunia and Dudley would also be heirs even if they aren't magical. That would make her special.

That's only if Harry is the heir on his mother's side. He may or may not be the heir and it may or may not be on his mother's side. There's a fifty percent chance that if Harry is the heir of Gryffindor, he is heir on his father's side.

That's only if Harry is the heir on his mother's side. He may or may not be the heir and it may or may not be on his mother's side. There's a fifty percent chance that if Harry is the heir of Gryffindor, he is heir on his father's side.
We are supposed to learn something big about Lily, I think it is that she is descended from GG.

We are supposed to learn something big about Lily, I think it is that she is descended from GG.

I'm not saying you're wrong. Only that which one is related to Gryffindor is about equal between Lily and James.

petunia cant be a witch, as that would make dudley, half blood just like harry, adn wouldnt he then of recieved a letter from hogworts.

now would this be that people know she was a witch or that she is hiding it from everyone?

Jk has said that she isnt a squib but there is more to her than we think....at least I think thats what she said! *goes to JKR site*

thats possible. i've always thought she was somehow related to the wizarding wold.

interesting idea. i personally think she MIGHT have been in the order before. remember, loads of muggles were prosecuted and in danger in WW1, too, werent they? so Petunia..i guess maybe thats why she is still in touch with dumbledore, knows a hell of alot than she pretends she does..etc?

or maybe she just wants to protect harry etc, thats why shes still in touch with dumbledore.

all will be revealed in HBP. question is, who can wait till then?! *counts hands*. thought so..none. heh.

We do know that one of petunia's favorite passtimes is "spying on the neighbors." Do we know anything about the Dursley's negihbors?

hmm I don't see any evidence to back that up, but it is possible

Jk has said that she isnt a squib but there is more to her than we think....at least I think thats what she said! *goes to JKR site*
All you have to do is look a few posts up and you'll see I quoted what JKR said about Petunia.

petunia cant be a witch, as that would make dudley, half blood just like harry, adn wouldnt he then of recieved a letter from hogworts.

That's a good point. If Petunia was a witch, then Dudley might have gotten a letter from Hogwarts and Dudley might possibly be going to Hogwarts with Harry. Plus, if Petunia was a witch, then why hasn't she said anything about getting accepted at Hogwarts, and why hasn't she done any kind of magic around the house?!?! But then again, we need more information about Lily and Petunia from their childhood to know about whether Petunia is a witch or not.

That's a good point. If Petunia was a witch, then Dudley might have gotten a letter from Hogwarts and Dudley might possibly be going to Hogwarts with Harry. Plus, if Petunia was a witch, then why hasn't she said anything about getting accepted at Hogwarts, and why hasn't she done any kind of magic around the house?!?! But then again, we need more information about Lily and Petunia from their childhood to know about whether Petunia is a witch or not.

No we don't. J.K. Rowling already said that Petunia is not a witch. Therefore we don't need any information about Petunia's childhood to determine if she is a witch or not. She isn't.

I don't think Petunia ia a witch or a squib. She is a muggle who has had contact with the magical world. Surely growing up with a sister like Lily , petunia would of learned a thing or two about the magic world.

Just a bit off topic here but if you are a squib do you still go to hogwarts? Or is there a school for squibs somewhere? I know Miss Figg talked about never tranfiguring a teacup so she has had to of gotten the knowledge of tranfiguring somewhere.

Squibs are the children of magical parents without magical abilities, correct? So anyone who is a squib would have grown up in the wizarding world.

JK has already said Petunia is not a squib (parents were muggles, so she can't be a squib) and she isn't a witch but Jk says there is more to her than we know about so far - what is it? Is she a wizard? (laughs) that would be somewhat frightening (shudders) and not at all kid friendly.

Squibs are the children of magical parents without magical abilities, correct? So anyone who is a squib would have grown up in the wizarding world.

JK has already said Petunia is not a squib (parents were muggles, so she can't be a squib) and she isn't a witch but Jk says there is more to her than we know about so far - what is it? Is she a wizard? (laughs) that would be somewhat frightening (shudders) and not at all kid friendly.
JKR also said Petunia is a muggle.

I think Petunia is just a muggle. A muggle who as a child logged to be a witch like her sister. Of course, she would probably try to learn everything she could about a life that she couldn't have. (Which would explain why she knows all she does) Since that was not possible, she developed a great hate for her sister and magic because it was something she could never be a part of. It's a common ailment called, 'we always want, what we can't have'. Of course Petunia was jealous. Who in their right mind would rather be a muggle than a witch?

Well, the definition of a Squib is someone born of witch/wizardry ancestry, but has no magical powers (or very little). And a Muggle is someone with no magical powers. What do they call witches and wizards that have magical powers, therefore are not Squibs or Muggles, but denounce their magical heritage and choose to not tap into their magical abilities and live life as a muggle.

There has to be wizards that deny their magical abilities. What would they be called? Maybe that's what Petunia is.

Well, the definition of a Squib is someone born of witch/wizardry ancestry, but has no magical powers (or very little). And a Muggle is someone with no magical powers. What do they call witches and wizards that have magical powers, therefore are not Squibs or Muggles, but denounce their magical heritage and choose to not tap into their magical abilities and live life as a muggle.

There has to be wizards that deny their magical abilities. What would they be called? Maybe that's what Petunia is.
Then they would be called wizards or witches who don't use their powers. The definition of a muggle is someone with no magical powers. She's a muggle, JKR said so.

i read somewhere that JKR said don't presume Petunia is a squib...therefore i am of the theory that she does have magical powers but maybe she doesn't kno she has them. also, "those who thrice defied him".. could Lily have defied Voldy in someway that was to do with her sis. perhapss Voldy took the Evans hostage and Lily rescued them. This would explain why Petunia had a look of genuine horror on her face when she heard he was back. i don't think Petunia attended Hogwarts or got expelled cos she'd have to have been way worsr than Malfoy or Fred and George for that matter!!!!!! This might also link to what Dudley saw around the Dementors : his mother a witch!!..

i read somewhere that JKR said don't presume Petunia is a squib...

That's not exactly what she said. She said:

"Is Aunt Petunia a Squib?

Good question. No, she is not, but—[Laughter]. No, she is not a Squib. She is a Muggle, but—[Laughter]. You will have to read the other books. You might have got the impression that there is a little bit more to Aunt Petunia than meets the eye, and you will find out what it is. She is not a squib, although that is a very good guess. Oh, I am giving a lot away here. I am being shockingly indiscreet."

The question is why is it a good guess?

Harry is considered as half-blood, and Trelawneys prediction at least proves that he is one. So naturally either James or Lily had to be muggle-born, and it is indicated it was Lily. Therefore Aunt Petunia cannot be squib, but a common muggle, since squibs are wizard-born muggles. If Aunt Petunia would have been a witch instead, she hadn't been so surprised when everything strange was happening around Harry. And if she would have been in Azkaban, she would be there even now. We are talking about life-time sentences, aren't they?

i read somewhere that JKR said don't presume Petunia is a squib...therefore i am of the theory that she does have magical powers but maybe she doesn't kno she has them. also, "those who thrice defied him".. could Lily have defied Voldy in someway that was to do with her sis. perhapss Voldy took the Evans hostage and Lily rescued them. This would explain why Petunia had a look of genuine horror on her face when she heard he was back. i don't think Petunia attended Hogwarts or got expelled cos she'd have to have been way worsr than Malfoy or Fred and George for that matter!!!!!! This might also link to what Dudley saw around the Dementors : his mother a witch!!.. The quote didn't say anything about the word presume. The quote said Petunia was a muggle and she wasn't a squib. Here is the quote from JKR's websiteIs Aunt Petunia a Squib?

Good question. No, she is not, but—[Laughter]. No, she is not a Squib. She is a Muggle, but—[Laughter]. You will have to read the other books. You might have got the impression that there is a little bit more to Aunt Petunia than meets the eye, and you will find out what it is. She is not a squib, although that is a very good guess. Oh, I am giving a lot away here. I am being shockingly indiscreet.

If Aunt Petunia would have been a witch instead, she hadn't been so surprised when everything strange was happening around Harry. And if she would have been in Azkaban, she would be there even now. We are talking about life-time sentences, aren't they?

Even though she could not be a witch, I don't think she was really surprised when strange things started to happen around Harry. It could have been just an act for we know now that she knew more about the Wizarding World than we thought at that time.

And thanks for the quote ComicBookWorm, even thought I had just posted it two posts above.

I don't think that the JKR quote (see ComicBookWorm above) completely excludes the possibility that Petunia was a witch who chose to be a Muggle, if that makes sense. In fact, I think that you could definitely make an arguement for it. Obviously, based on that quote, there is something more to our dear Petunia than just "straight up Muggle". I doubt that she went to or was expelled from Hogwarts, but perhaps she chose not to go to Hogwarts, and therefore somehow forfeited her magical powers? I suppose that this would lend credibility to those who argue that Petunia is the one who will discover magical powers later in life, although in her case, she'd be re-discovering them, wouldn't she?

I don't think that the JKR quote (see ComicBookWorm above) completely excludes the possibility that Petunia was a witch who chose to be a Muggle, if that makes sense.

I suppose that this would lend credibility to those who argue that Petunia is the one who will discover magical powers later in life, although in her case, she'd be re-discovering them, wouldn't she?

Even though I also think that Petunia is the one who will acheive to do magic late in life, I don't think she will really discover that she has power. I think she will be able to use magic one under certain special circumstances because JKR said:
"there is a character who does manage in desperate circumstances to do magic quite late in life, but that is very rare in the world I am writing about."

I doubt Petunia is a witch, but there can be a possibility that, since we don't know much about Lily and Petunia's parents, Petunia could possibly be a squib. That could be part of the reason why she was so jealous when she and her parents found out that Lily was a witch and went off to Hogwarts. We'd have to know more about Petunia and Lily from before Lily went to Hogwarts to figure out whether Petunia really is a witch that possibly got expelled from Hogwarts. We'd have to know more about Petunia's parents as well because we don't know anything of them at the moment.

Petunia cannot be a squib. Squib is someone that his parents are wizards, but he is unable to performe magic. We know for sure that Lily's parents were muggles. So...

I think that she has some kind of relationship with the wizarding world. Most likely, she would like to be a witch just like her sister. But she had not the power. So the only thing she could do was to envy Lily

Petunia cannot be a squib. Squib is someone that his parents are wizards, but he is unable to performe magic. We know for sure that Lily's parents were muggles. So...

I think that she has some kind of relationship with the wizarding world. Most likely, she would like to be a witch just like her sister. But she had not the power. So the only thing she could do was to envy Lily

And JKR said she is not a squib.

I have believed that Petunia is a witch since the second book. I have believed this for many reasons:

1. Malfoy treats Harry as a pureblood and he is considered as the heir of Slytherin.
2.There are no photos of petunia, lily, their parents, etc. in the house (probably because they move)
3. Petunia would only leave Harry with Mrs. Figg whenever they went out. Mrs. Figg was the one person she wouldn't have to worry that Harry strange things would happen (i.e. magic) in front of.
4. As to her not doing any magic, I disagree. If she is a witch she is one with very little magical ability. I believe that she can do "domestic" magic. How often is her home described as preternaturally clean and her cooking sophisticated.
5. Why would she hate lily? Because mybe she did not get accepted to Hogwarts. It would have been humiliating. She may have even been sent to a muggle school instead by her parents to give her a "normal" life. It is ridiculous to think that if lily were always bringing James around that the rest of them (Lupin, Wormtail and Sirius as well as others) would have been around too. But being who they were they may have been less than nice to her. She would become more and more disaffected with the magical world. Even come to hate it. But I think it is more than that...
6. When Voldmort came to power and was destroying "mudbloods" she may have fled to the muggle world completely hoping that she would "pass" for muggle and escape his wrath. (JK has said time and again that Voldmort is like Hitler)
7. Knowing that Lily and James were fighting Voldmort, she and Vernon would have wanted to sever ties with them and deny the existence of magic.
8. Why would she agree to take Harry? I am sure that the protection lily gave to her blood relatives was explained to petunia and there is no doubt that if Voldmort came back he would go after all potter relatives. Petunia (being of little magic) would desperately want that protection for her and her precious son. No Harry, no protection for herself. That is why she is so scared of dementors and the howler.
8. Why she is so mean to Harry? Obvious, if she never told Vernon that she was a witch and Vernon is so prejudiced against "freaks" she would go along with him in his abuse to show she was like him not Harry. Fear can make you do many horrible things.
9. She is also mean because she can take out all her jealousy and frustrations she has felt her whole life out on Harry.
10.Petunia says that lily was always turning mice into teacups. Now, if they did not know she was a witch before she got accepted to hog warts she could not do magic at home while attending hog warts so she must have been doing magic when they were little (like the children at the quidditch world cup).
11. Finally (at least for today) JK has said that she is not a squib and she has said that Lily was a mudblood because of her grandparents. So Petunia is a witch of very little ability. (Or JK really didn't think it out that much and we read WAY too much into these things) :p

Omigod, what a cool theory. I think that maybe she was the one to leave Hogwarts though (like it was her own decision) because I couldn't imagine her ever really accepting the wizarding world.

Petunia certainly is an interesting character, eh?

I would not be suprised if JKR revealed in the books that Petunia was a witch or has little magical abilities. If Petunia is a witch (or something like that)...then what is Dudley....hmmm....:shrug:

This is a quote from JKR from the public reading and interview she gave at the Edinburgh Book Festival on 8/15/04.


Is Aunt Petunia a Squib?

Good question. No, she is not, but—[Laughter]. No, she is not a Squib. She is a Muggle, but—[Laughter]. You will have to read the other books. You might have got the impression that there is a little bit more to Aunt Petunia than meets the eye, and you will find out what it is. She is not a squib, although that is a very good guess. Oh, I am giving a lot away here. I am being shockingly indiscreet.


Petunia is not a squib. Petunia is not a witch that quit Hogwarts. Petunia is a muggle, period.

Jk acknowledges several things on her official site:
http://www.jkrowling.com

In the FAQ she writes that the Malfoys would consider Harry as only "half wizard" because of his
MOTHER'S GRANDPARENTS :rolleyes:
(not his parents or his mother's parents). She goes on to say that she was "chilled to see that the Nazi used precisely the same warped logic as death eaters.

In the FAQ Poll she discusses the howler Petunia got from Dumbledore. She says, "Dumbledore is referring to his last letter, which means, of course, the letter left upon the Dursley's doorstep when Harry was one year old. But why then (you may well ask) did he not just say 'remember my letter?' Why did he say my last letter? Why, obviously there were letters before that... Now let the speculation begin, and mind you type clearly, I'll be watching..."

She goes on to write that she "differentiates between the letters sent to both Vernon and Petunia about Harry's school matters and the ones directed to Petunia ALONE. And that is her final word on the subject for now."

You should also look at the news section at the 15/08/04 entry she verifies that Aunt Petunia "is not a squib, but- [laughter], No she is not a squib. She is a Muggle, but- [laughter]" She continues to say that there is a bit more about petunia than meats the eye and that guessing she is a squib is a very good guess." She almost gives it away but not quite.

These are J K Rowling's clues on her official site.


As for going to hogwarts, perhaps she did not possess enough magic to go to Hogwarts. Neville says in the first book that he showed so little magical ability that his grandmother was worried he wouldn't be accepted to Hogwarts. Perhaps this has happened to witches and wizards in the past who are not squibs but not magical enough to study magic. Perhaps this happened to Petunia. It would explain her great hate and resentment of all things magical.

As for going to hogwarts, perhaps she did not possess enough magic to go to Hogwarts. Neville says in the first book that he showed so little magical ability that his grandmother was worried he wouldn't be accepted to Hogwarts. Perhaps this has happened to witches and wizards in the past who are not squibs but not magical enough to study magic. Perhaps this happened to Petunia. It would explain her great hate and resentment of all things magical.
If she didn't have enough magic to go to Hogwarts she would be a squib or a talentless witch. She's a muggle--no magic.

I agree that there's really no evidence to talk about Petunia being a Squib, or an expelled witch.

But here's my theory:

----------

I think Petunia was very close to Lily through her Hogwarts years, and even met many of Lily's friends. Perhaps it transpired that Petunia fell madly in love with a young wizard. And said wizard broke her heart, very badly.

Who this wizard is, I couldn't tell you, but perhaps it was James, or some other wizard with whom she had a relationship that went very, very sour..

This would account for Petunia's dislike of Lily, her dislike of James (if she went out with him, but that's by no means a strong part of my theory), and her surprising amount of knowledge of the wizarding world, for a muggle.

I think that Petunia is a squib. That would explain alot also. Her family able to use magic but for some reason she never could. in S.S/P.S. she talked about how her parents were so proud when lilly got her letter to go to Hogwarts. They had to have know about the Wizarding world.

JKR has said that Petunia is a muggle, and not a squib.

Since ComicBookWorm has been extraordinarily polite in this thread, I'd like to say the following:

PETUNIA IS A MUGGLE. SHE IS NOT A SQUIB. SHE IS NOT A WITCH EXPELLED FROM HOGWARTS.

SHE. IS. A. MUGGLE.

Now there are plenty of theories which can account for her behavior and knowledge that do not rely on a fact that was debunked EXPLICITLY by JK herself.

/rant

I think that Petunia is a squib. That would explain alot also. Her family able to use magic but for some reason she never could. in S.S/P.S. she talked about how her parents were so proud when lilly got her letter to go to Hogwarts. They had to have know about the Wizarding world.

A squib : Non magic person birn to magic parents

A muggle : non magic people

A mudblood: ( nasty word) A witch born to non magic parents.

Petunias parents were muggles

I don't care what those of you, who feel you must raise your voice (you know who you are) have to say about it... JKR was being very cheeky in that quote with all of the giggling and laughing... She did say that P is not a squib, she did say that she is a muggle.. but I think that she is a pretend muggle! Why would she say that there is more than meets the eye with that woman if she wasn't?

I know that there can be other secret things about people, but I really WANT to believe this,

So, nanananan, my fingers are over my eyes and I will not see anything that I don't want to.

Ok, tantrum is done.

Really though, it makes sense. It does. Believe it and it does.

I don't know whether this has been said in this thread but i was re-reading PS
and at the end when they get their exams results it says p 222 English Edition.

They had hoped that Goyle, who was almost as stupid as he was mean, might be thrown out, but he had passed too

I was thinking that maybe Petunia went to Hogwarts, but got thrown out, not expelled because she had really poor exam results.

Out of all her hints and suggestions, I still think the most compelling clue that J.K. gives us is on her official site,

http://www.jkrowling.com/

J.K. writes in her answer, which can be found in the FAQ, in the "About Books" section. It is on the first page and answers to the next to last question on the page:

"Why are some people in he wizarding world (e.g., Harry) called 'half-blood' even though both their parents were magical."

J.K.'s Answer:

"The expressions 'pure-blood, 'half-blood' and 'Muggle-born' have been coined by people to whom these distinctions matter, and express their originators' prejudices. As far as somebody like Luscious Malfoy is concerned for instance, a Muggle-born is as 'bad' as a Muggle. Therefore Harry would be considered only 'half' wizard, because of his mother's grandparents."

I am not sure she meant to give such a clear-cut answer but there it is. If the Malfoys consider
"Harry as only 'half wizard' because of his MOTHER'S GRANDPARENTS" :!:
not his parents or his mother's parents, this would mean that Lily and Petunia were witches (of whatever magical ability) born to a witch and a wizard who, at least one of them, was born to Muggles. This would mean that Harry is at least 3rd generation wizard on his mother's side and a possibly a pureblood on his father's side. Of course, as Dumbledore points out no one is pureblood anymore (and with one of his names being Brian he should know). ;)

well i dont think so that she could be a witch but the other point that she might be sent to azkaban and that's why she knows about the dementors...in that case i agree with gingerskat(who'd given a thoughtful theory)!!!

A mudblood: ( nasty word) A witch born to non magic parents.


Actually it can be anyone born to Muggle parents, it just so happens that we hear it used predominantly at Hermione.

We all know Petunia is hiding a lot. She doesn't want Vernon (who hates anything about magic, including the word) to find out how much she knows.

She said that she knew what Dementors were and what Azkaban was. Vernon got sorta mad at her and was like... What, how! Then she said that she heard that Potter boy talk about it.

Well, maybe that was an excuse. Maybe she does know more about the wizarding world then we think. She is Lily's sister... and Lily and her parents were happy she was a witch

She even said... "My parents were so pleased. 'We have a witch in the family... isn't that marvelous." Now that was in the movie. I think it was the same in the book.

... so they probably discussed it a lot. So she knows alot cause she heard it.

We all know Petunia is hiding a lot. She doesn't want Vernon (who hates anything about magic, including the word) to find out how much she knows.

She said that she knew what Dementors were and what Azkaban was. Vernon got sorta mad at her and was like... What, how! Then she said that she heard that Potter boy talk about it.

Well, maybe that was an excuse. Maybe she does know more about the wizarding world then we think. She is Lily's sister... and Lily and her parents were happy she was a witch

She even said... "My parents were so pleased. 'We have a witch in the family... isn't that marvelous." Now that was in the movie. I think it was the same in the book.

... so they probably discussed it a lot. So she knows alot cause she heard it.

She also was in correspondence with DD before Harry ever arrived, which would indicate how she obtained some of her wizarding world knowledge.

She can't be a witch because in ootp it was written that Harry was the only wizard in little whinging, or something like this...

She can't be a witch because in ootp it was written that Harry was the only wizard in little whinging, or something like this...

That and Jo told us she is a muggle. ;)

Petunia can't be a squiband Lily a muggle-born witch: definition of a squib is a non-magical person born into a magical family, so the two are mutually exclusive

I am still working on the theory that Petunia is a witch of little magic. Not a squib but not talented enough to either be accepted or stay at Hogwarts. It would explain all the illogical inconsistencies in her behavior including her fear/hatred towards magic and Harry. As for going to Hogwarts, perhaps she did not possess enough magic to go. Neville says in SS/PS,

“Well, my gran brought me up and she’s a witch,” said Neville, “But the family thought I was all-Muggle for ages…-they thought I might not be magic enough to come, you see.”

Perhaps this has happened to witches and wizards in the past who are not squibs but not magical enough to study magic. Perhaps this happened to Petunia. It would explain her great hate and resentment of all things magical. Also, maybe Petunia's family also thought she was "all-Muggle for ages" and so she considered herself a Muggle and escaped to the Muggle world.
I think it is telling that Petunia says,

'...and disappeared to that - that school - and came home every holiday with her pockets full of frog-spawn, turning teacups into rats.'

If this is true (and I think she is still covering her tracks with Vernon) then Lily would have been doing illeagal underage magic when she was home from Hogwarts.
I think this statement could be more telling in that one could assume that Petunia had been to platform 9 3/4, knew about Diagon Alley, etc. She showed no sign when Harry got his letter except fear so why not twist the timing of when Lily did magic to keep her secrets as long as she can?

I think JK has said that Petunia isn't a squid - maybe she is a sort of T-grade witch but I doubt it.

A more likely explaination for the disparity between Petunia's apparent denial and ignorance of the magical world might rely on her relationship with Lily. We're led to believe that she was always jealous of Lily and maybe she was. But perhaps she was closer to Lily than we have been lead to believe - Lily was her sister and most people love their sisters, even if they don't approve of them. Petunia may have known how much danger Lily was in, and urged her to leave James and the magical world for her own safety - that could have caused a big bust up between them (and I don't suppose Petunia's marriage to Vernon helped). That would explain why Petunia took Harry in - on some level, she still loved her sister. Her horrible treatment of Harry might be because she hated James and magic - and because she was still angry that Lily didn't leave them behind.

Momstone,
JKR said that all witches and wizards are invited to Hogwarts, regardless of how much/little talent they have. You're either a witch/wizard or you're not. So that kind of shoots down your theory. Check the FAQ on her site (it's the question about Stan Shunpike). :-(

JKR said that all witches and wizards are invited to Hogwarts, regardless of how much/little talent they have.
But she may have been invited... and declined. Just refused to go, after she saw what her sister got into. (Wait... Lily is older, yes?)

nope its impossible as per jk interview if im correct which i think i am she said something about aunt petunia being a definate muggle and not a squib either she also said theres more to petunia then meets the eye and then said something else i cant remember

I think that Petunia is a squib

could be...

JO said she is not, sorry to say that:)

There is an other reason, if Petunia was a witch or head any idea about the wizarding world she should have known, that she and Vernon cannot train Harry not to be a wizard, like they did the first eleven years.

Petunia is no ordinary Muggle as she has a sister who is a witch so it's impossible (as proven several times in the books) that she doesn't have any idea of th world as Lily was a witch and that horrible James was often at the Evans house.

Of course James had an inseparable friend whose parents took him in during the holidays. Wouldn't a failed relationship with that friend just add that extra bit of bitterness that sibling rivally couldn't meet.

Could it be that Sirius got called away to work with the Order leaving her pregnant with the Half Blood Prince?

Petunia is no ordinary Muggle as she has a sister who is a witch so it's impossible (as proven several times in the books) that she doesn't have any idea of th world as Lily was a witch and that horrible James was often at the Evans house.

I think Petunia is ordinary(sorry) after all she is from a muggle family. Lily is the odd one out, as she is one among muggles. But jo said that there is more about petunia than what meets the eye.... but that does not make her abnormal

Could it be that Sirius got called away to work with the Order leaving her pregnant with the Half Blood Prince?

Nice theory, I like it...but there is no proof:(

Could it be that Sirius got called away to work with the Order leaving her pregnant with the Half Blood Prince?

leaving who pregnant? You've lost me :huh:

I think that Petunia is a squib

Welcome to the forums, Lynz! :)

The comment people are mentioning to you was said at the Edinburg Book Festival this past July. Here it is, so you know exactly what Jo said.

Is Aunt Petunia a Squib?

Good question. No, she is not, but—[Laughter]. No, she is not a Squib. She is a Muggle, but—[Laughter]. You will have to read the other books. You might have got the impression that there is a little bit more to Aunt Petunia than meets the eye, and you will find out what it is. She is not a squib, although that is a very good guess. Oh, I am giving a lot away here. I am being shockingly indiscreet.

So, we know that Petunia is a muggle. Jo did leave the sentence hanging, so there is a lot of speculation as to what the 'but' could be. I think it ties into the extensive amount of knowledge she olds into the wizarding world, possibly from her communication with Dumbledore. I believe part, if not all, of their communication was because the Evan's were killed by LV, and DD was keeping in contact with Petunia in an effort to update her on her sister and try to keep her safe. I think that DD offered Petunia's family protection in return for taking Harry in. She was said to take Harry under a long list of negative adverbs, so I think she must gain something in return. If she was afraid for her family, because of a past threat, I think that would be enough to convince her to raise Harry. But that's just me. :D

I also think she is at least one of three plausible people who is a candidate to do magic under dire circumstances. But that's for another thread.

Edit - I lost which thread I was in before. No, I do not think Petunia could have been a witch who was expelled from Hogwarts. Jo told us she is a muggle. Therefore, Petunia could not have gone to Hogwarts. Even if she was magic (which I know she's not) and chose to live as a muggle, she'd still be a witch. So, Jo telling us she is a muggle means she is not magical, at all.

I don't think Petunia was ever as magical as a student or indeed a squib because when she got angry mysterious things wiul have happened. Yet i do think there is more to her than meets the eye.

It's more likely she was a witch that deferred from ever attending Hogwarts.


No, I do not think Petunia could have been a witch who was expelled from Hogwarts. Jo told us she is a muggle. Therefore, Petunia could not have gone to Hogwarts. Even if she was magic (which I know she's not) and chose to live as a muggle, she'd still be a witch. So, Jo telling us she is a muggle means she is not magical, at all.


If you choose to renounce magic, never practise magic and know nothing about magic, I don't that that would make you a witch.

Wait, we're Petunia's and Lily's parents magical? If they are, then Petunia's definatly a Squib, and I hightly doubt she was magical and got expelled.

Welcome to the forums, Lynz! :)

The comment people are mentioning to you was said at the Edinburg Book Festival this past July. Here it is, so you know exactly what Jo said.



So, we know that Petunia is a muggle. Jo did leave the sentence hanging, so there is a lot of speculation as to what the 'but' could be. I think it ties into the extensive amount of knowledge she olds into the wizarding world, possibly from her communication with Dumbledore. I believe part, if not all, of their communication was because the Evan's were killed by LV, and DD was keeping in contact with Petunia in an effort to update her on her sister and try to keep her safe. I think that DD offered Petunia's family protection in return for taking Harry in. She was said to take Harry under a long list of negative adverbs, so I think she must gain something in return. If she was afraid for her family, because of a past threat, I think that would be enough to convince her to raise Harry. But that's just me. :D

I also think she is at least one of three plausible people who is a candidate to do magic under dire circumstances. But that's for another thread.

Edit - I lost which thread I was in before. No, I do not think Petunia could have been a witch who was expelled from Hogwarts. Jo told us she is a muggle. Therefore, Petunia could not have gone to Hogwarts. Even if she was magic (which I know she's not) and chose to live as a muggle, she'd still be a witch. So, Jo telling us she is a muggle means she is not magical, at all.

Ah right, thanks for the info :)

i dunno. mabye she is just in verry much denial :D

I still don't know what the whole, Sirius leaving someone pregnant thing is all about that was discussed earlier, have I just missed something terribly important in the books? :lol:

No. as i have learned fom other fans JK made it quite clear Petunia is not a witch.

Wait, we're Petunia's and Lily's parents magical? If they are, then Petunia's definatly a Squib, and I hightly doubt she was magical and got expelled.

No they were muggles. Lily was a muggle-born.

Personally, I think Petunia really WANTED to be a witch, she says how their parents always just cared about Lily, and they were so proud of her etc. etc.
Maybe Petunia wished that she was a witch too, but since she wasn't (her parents weren't either, that means she is NOT a squib) she decided to live as a muggle for the rest of her life. She kept having contact with the wizarding world, though, she still couldn't let go of it, even though she didn't have anything to do there. She knew Figg was a squib. When she heard about J&L's death, she most probably knew she would get Harry, too. And she did. He reminded her of James, and of a family she could've been a part of, if she had only been a witch. She didn't want to get reminded of that every day, but she knew she had to. That is why she hates Harry. She also knew that if Voldemort came back, not even muggles would be safe. If she knew that Harry was the only one who could defeat him, too, and that he would only be safe there - of course she would take him.

If by witch you mean a really mean, hateful, and ugly person. Then yes.

If by witch you mean someone magical. No.

Okay, this will probably be a long post, so here it goes...

It's mainly the 'good guess though' in JKR's answer that confuses me. Why would guessing Petunia is a squib be a 'good guess'?

I think Petunia may have been a witch, but left Hogwarts and had her powers stripped from her in some way. She doesn't practice magic, she may not be able to, so she is a 'non-magical person' - a muggle.

Bear with me...

Petunia may be older than Lily, but we don't know how much older. If Petunia went to Hogwarts first, Dumbledore probably wasn't headmaster (Lupin says 'and then Dumbledore became headmaster', just before Lily, James et al go to Hogwarts), I'll assume it was Dippet (as he was head 50 odd years ago).
Dippet was probably a stricter headmaster, Filch remembers the punishments he used to allow.
Petunia left Hogwarts for some reason. The rules were different then (which could explain how she didn't know Harry wasn't allowed to do magic), so she may have been expelled unjustly (maybe she was falsely acussed of something). Full of bitterness, she asks for her powers to be stripped and her memory modified, or maybe she was accused of something so bad they did it instead of sending a child to Azkaban.
They'd also modify her family's memory.
Then Lily gets her letter...

Note: Petunia could be a lot older than Lily, and just had Dudley later in life.


This also opens up the possibility of Petunia re-discovering her magic. I'm sure a desperate situation could break through a memory charm, and allow her to use her powers....


Just my thoughts

EDIT: Petunia may still not remember she was ever at Hogwarts. She just remembers little bits, like dementors, and assumes she heard it from Lily, as where else would she get it.

Sorry guys, but check the JKR website:

http://www.jkrowling.com/textonly/news_view.cfm?id=80
Is Aunt Petunia a Squib?

Good question. No, she is not, but—[Laughter]. No, she is not a Squib. She is a Muggle, but—[Laughter]. You will have to read the other books. You might have got the impression that there is a little bit more to Aunt Petunia than meets the eye, and you will find out what it is. She is not a squib, although that is a very good guess. Oh, I am giving a lot away here. I am being shockingly indiscreet.

http://www.jkrowling.com/textonly/faq_view.cfm?id=91
Everyone who shows magical ability before their eleventh birthday will automatically gain a place at Hogwarts; there is no question of not being ‘magical enough’; you are either magical or you are not.

I think Nevilles 'magical enough to come to Hogwarts' was more wether he had enough magic to be worth sending him. I mean, Hogwarts isn't cheap, what with books, robes and supplies. Far easier and cheaper to home school him if he has little magical ability.

Ok. I was reading the FAQ page on the Leaky Cauldronhttp://www.hpandthehalfbloodprince.org/ which has all the interviews JKR has ever conducted and I came across this one.

Barnes and Noble chat from 1999
Q: Will there be, or have there been, any "late blooming" students in the school who come into their magic potential as adults, rather than as children?
A: No, is the answer. In my books, magic almost always shows itself in a person before age 11; however, there is a character who does manage in desperate circumstances to do magic quite late in life, but that is very rare in the world I am writing about.

and then...

Edinburgh Book Festival
Q: Is Aunt Petunia a Squib?
A: Good question. No, she is not, but÷[Laughter]. No, she is not a Squib. She is a Muggle, but÷[Laughter]. You will have to read the other books. You might have got the impression that there is a little bit more to Aunt Petunia than meets the eye, and you will find out what it is. She is not a squib, although that is a very good guess. Oh, I am giving a lot away here. I am being shockingly indiscreet.

Now this is just my theory, I have no other evidence than what my head put together after reading these two exerpts, but it seems to me that the laughter in the second stems from thoughts of the bold in the first. In other words, that though Aunt Petunia is a Muggle and not a Squib, she is the character who manages to do magic in desperate circumstances quite late in life.

Conversely, we could look at it this way. Who else could this late bloomer possibly be? Who does Harry know who is a Muggle and could come into magic late in life? Petunia has a witch for sister despite her muggle parentage, and has always been bitter about the fact that Lily can do magic when she can't. Who's to say that this distaste for Lily and James doesn't come from a deep jealousy - doesn't every kid wish he or she was magic? I know I do!

I think Petunia is going to have to save either Dudley or Vernon or perhaps even Harry from something (Voldemort or Death Eaters?) and that her latent magical powers - that is to say, ones she can't readily access like a witch or wizard - come forth briefly in her hour of need.

Anyway. That's just my thoughts.

I don't think so... In PS/SS he said: "my parents were so proud when she got her letter"... That means that only Lily recived the letter. But it's interesting what Lawwwren wrote...
:angel: I Solemny Swear That I'm Up To No Good :angel:


:evil: Mischief Managed :evil:

Nice post Lawwwren...the way I see it, JKR has ruled out Petunia as the character who "manages to do magic late in life" by saying that she is a muggle. I think that once someone is born a muggle, they will stay a muggle, and therefore will never do magic no matter how much they need/want to.

You bring up a good point with your "who else could it be?" question. Other than Petunia, the two obvious choices would seem to be Filch and Mrs. Figg. These are two known squibs, which in my view makes them more likely than Petunia. Filch actually seems to be the likliest candidate of these two as I see it, as he is at Hogwarts and for that reason, could end up in a position to need to produce magic if Hogwarts is attacked by Team Voldy.

The other way I would possibly interpret the statement is that an untalented wizard/witch could manage to produce much more powerful magic in desperate circumstances than we would ever expect him/her to be able to perform (Neville?).

Hmmm.. I think I read an interview somewhere that JK Rowling stated that Petunia is not a witch or a squib.. Interesting theory though.

Jo did seem to hint that Petunia is something else, but I can't think of anything else that she could be..

i think petunia is definately fairly clueless to the wizarding world...for one thing when harry was left on their doorstep mcgonagle said that she had been watching them and they were the worst kind of muggles she had seen. that doesnt sound like she or dumbledore would have known petunia before . secondly when the howler arrives during ootp she acts as if she doesnt know what to do with it. any knowing wizard would have opened it before it exploded all over her pristine kitchen....

-snapelova

Hmmm.. I think I read an interview somewhere that JK Rowling stated that Petunia is not a witch or a squib.. Interesting theory though.

Jo did seem to hint that Petunia is something else, but I can't think of anything else that she could be..

I think JKR was hinting that Petunia knows a lot more about the wizarding world than she wants anyone to believe, as evidenced by her knowledge of the dementors in OotP.

Ok, here's my read on Petunia:

Sour Grapes. She was the sister who so desparately wanted to be a witch. Either with knowledge of the established 'Wizarding World" or with just the knowledge of general folklore. There are lots of young girls fascinated by the subject. Petunia was probably a wannabe witch before she or Lily ever even heard of Hogwarts.

Imagine her shock when her sister,(who probably played with barbie dolls while Petunia sat dreaming of flying on a broomstick) got a letter from Hogwarts instead of her. Imagine when she finally found out that there were real witches, and her sister got tapped instead of her.

So, she's jealous. And rightfully so. She feels it should have been her. Perhaps Lily is sympathetic, and -as a favor to her sister- generously puts Petunia and Dumbledore into correspondence with each other, to see if there is any possible way for petunia to become the witch she's always dreamed of being. She asks Dumbledore to write Petunia and see if there is any possibility that she is a witch.

Dumbledore probably does this. He probably does his best to see if it's possible that Petunia could be a witch, but alas, she is a Muggle. He regretfully writes Petunia with the bad news. Only people who show magical ability by age 11 get in to the school -- and Petunia is doomed to live a life of muggledom.

So Petunia, jealous and destroyed that she cannot be a witch, turns her back on the idea, and determines to make a life a muggle-as-can-be. She becomes a suburban housewife, and the whole subject of wizarding becoumes a very touchy one for her. It's worse than being a squib.

Then one day Harry arrives with a letter from Dumbledore, and Petunia takes him, either for Lily's sake, or as a favor to the Headmaster, or because he is tempting her with promises of involvement in the Wizarding World.

The jealousy she's shown so far about Lily shows that she obviously wanted to be a witch in the worst way. She probably desperately clung onto Lily's every word about the school, and the fascinating world she couldn't be a part of.

And having Harry growing up in the house would have to be like a daily reminder of the life she couldn't lead, not to mention her sister's death.

bombur: This is pretty much how I see it as well. My best guess is that at first, Petunia was happy that Lily was a witch, but eventually became jealous of Lily's "special" talents and the attention she received because of them. This caused Petunia to completely withdraw herself from any contact with the wizarding world, which she acheived by marrying the most muggleish (someone call up Mr. Webster, I've invented a new word) man she could find. When Harry was dropped on her doorstep, she was finally forced to confront the fact that she is still involved with the wizarding world, whether or not she wants to be.

Yes we all know that Lily and her sister arent exactly the best of friends but what are the odds that Petunia is actually a witch? Im not saying it isnt possible but isnt very probable. As for her knowing lots of things about the wizarding world, Lily and James Im willing to bet didnt make it any secret around the house about all the things that go on at Hogwarts...Im sure Lily's parents were a little interested in Wizard news or the topic of Azkaban and Dementors could have popped up in a conversation where Lily was explaining to her parents a lesson in her Defence against the Dark Arts Class

I think it more likely that she was a witch who decided not to go to hogwarts.

Petunia is not a witch. JKR has said that she is a muggle. The exact quote was posted in Reply #145 on the previous page.

J.K. Rowling herself has said that Aunt Petunia is "very much a muggle."

Based off of that quote alone, I think it's pretty much impossible for Aunt Petunia to be the witch that was expelled from Hogwarts.

Had JK Rowling not made that statement, I'd defenitely say it's a plausible theory.

I remember seeing somewhere that JKR said the Petunia was not a witch or a squibb. However, she does seem to know a lot more about the wizarding world than she lets on. How exactly did she know about dementors and the prison. I find her knowledge of this stuff a little odd. And it looked like Vernon did as well.
I'm not sure why she knows what she does. Perphaps, at one time she did get along with Lily. Have we ever found out if Petunia is the older or younger sister? If Petunia is younger maybe she dreamed of following in her older sisters footsteps and going to Hogwarts as well. So, Lily told her all about what was happening. Then when she didn't get her letter she became upset with her "perfect" sister. But secretly she still spied on the conversations her sister had about the magical world. Therefore, she found out about dementors and Voldemort when she was older.

I never thought of Filch as the one who could do magic in desperate circumstances, but it does make the most sense. What sort of circumstances could they be? An attack on Hogwarts, or just an attack on Mrs Norris...

I don't think that Petunia was a student who got expelled, because JKR said that petunia was neither a Witch or Squib in an interview and that she was a plain old muggle, though i do think that Petunia pretended that she had no sister becasue she was envious that Lily had the power and Magic and she never forgave her, because she so wished that it had been her.

This is actually the hypothesis that I consider most likely. It explains why she knows so much about the wizarding world, why Dumbledore had sent her past letters, and her hatred for magic. The last point is very important - obviously, Petunia was raised in a household that embraced one witch, so she did not learn this intolerance from her parents. Moveover, one of the key themes of HP is that people are generally made, not created. That is, nobody is born into a particular role.

The modification that I would add is that Petunia might have quit. If you think on it, into which house would she have been sorted? She is not particularly brave, industrious or intelligent. She is greedy, close-minded, class-conscious and ambitiuous. I.e., Petunia would be one of the rare Muggle-born that would be sorted into Slytherin. (JKR has noted that although this is rare, that there have been some notable exceptions; well, we have not seen an exception to note yet!) Her welcome there would have been none-to-welcoming, which could have driven her away from Hogwarts and the magical world, and also left her with Slytherin house as a template for evaluating all wizards. (That would be like using National Socialists to evaluate all other Socialists......)

Then she would be a witch. And JK said she is not. She isn't a witch, or a squib. Just a muggle who knows things.

I think this argument hangs on the definition of 'muggle' as a non-magic person.
Is it a person that never could do magic, or one that chooses not to...in both cases the person isn't doing magic, so could be classed as a 'non-magic' person.

I think this argument hangs on the definition of 'muggle' as a non-magic person.
Is it a person that never could do magic, or one that chooses not to...in both cases the person isn't doing magic, so could be classed as a 'non-magic' person.

If I recall correctly, both Jo and the books have told us that a muggle is a person with no magical blood. If I'm remembering right, that would mean that there is no way Petunia ever went to Hogwarts, nor did she get invited to attend. Even if, as some suggest, Petunia was invited to attend Hogwarts and chose not to, that would still mean she is magic, which Jo told us she isn't. :)

We know how much Petunia loathes her late sister Lily. But does she really think wizards are freaks? Or could she be jealous of her sister? Because Lily was a witch and Petunia is a muggle? Petunia knows far too much about the wizarding world for being a simple muggle! I cannot imagine, that Petunia knows what Dementors are, simply because she heard James mention them once (as she mentions). So, could it be that Petunia knows so much about the magical world, because she once was a part of it?

Could it be, that Petunia once was a Hogwarts student herself???

Her being expelled and her wand destroyed could explain the jealousy she feels towards her dead sister. Perhaps Petunia did something really bad and was not only expelled from school, but sent to Azkaban!!!! Then she would know EXACTLY what a Dementor is! It would also mean, that she hides her magical heritage from Vernom and Dursley. (':??:')
I think that she could be in theory, but ... oh, nevermind. Speaking of Petunia, did any of you notice that in the first book, when Harry gets his first letter, vernon goes pale instead of her? Also, in Chamber of secrets, she knows that Harry did not jinx Dudley.

My theory in response to this thread is that she is not a witch, but a Squib. Evidence is that she never does magic and she knows too much about the wizarding world.



Newest Member,
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first year
:gryff:

Sorry, but JKR has stated that Petunia is not a squib. If she ain't a squib and she ain't a witch--then she's just a muggle.

I
My theory in response to this thread is that she is not a witch, but a Squib. Evidence is that she never does magic and she knows too much about the wizarding world.
That's not an evidence of her being a squib, only a consequence of her having a witch sister. Of course she knows plenty about magical world, she grew up with Lily, and likely to know many of her friends. She would not do anything that will make people talk, therefore it is pretty safe to assume she was on Lily and James wedding, they stayed in touch up untill one year before Potters were killed (first book), meaning that she met all maradeurs and some teachers. To be a squib, she would need at least one magical parent, and there is no evidence of that.

Perhaps her knowledge of the wizarding world has been enhanced, not by over-hearing conversations, and seeing her sister at home on the holidays. Perhaps Petunia is aware of certain things through Mrs. Figg.
Mrs. Figg is Dumbledore's liason between the magic and muggle worlds, according to what is stated on her in the Squibbs portion of JKRs site. This may also explain why she (Petunia) allows Harry to be kept by the batty old Mrs. Figg, while the Dursleys are away from their home.

I am not sure whether or not this has already been mentioned but what if......petunia was sent the letter when she was 11 and she thought it horrible and decided not to go...that's possible.....forgive me if this has already been said....

I SERIOUSLY doubt that. She's not a squib and I think she has magic in her, but I think her entire source of jealousy of Lily was that Lily went to Hogwarts and she didn't.

JKR has said Petunia is not a squib, but I haven't seen where she definitively said she is a muggle or not a witch. She has said, however, that there is more to Petunia than meets the eye...

We know Harry was dropped on the Dursley's doorstep with a letter from Dumbledore, explaining everything. What if only Petunia read the letter, and never showed it to Vernon? That would explain Petunia being aware of more than the rest of the family, and possibly knowing quite a bit more than your average muggle (even one with a witch for a sister). And we have yet to see what Dumbledore actually wrote in his letter to Petunia... It might contain information that we as readers have yet to discover as well. Perhaps this is Petunia's secret.

Sorry, but JKR has stated that Petunia is not a squib. If she ain't a squib and she ain't a witch--then she's just a muggle.

But if she flunked out of Hogwarts or if she left school early, then she failed to become a witch. There is reference to "certified" wizards and witches, after all.

The problem is, how does one categorize somebody who has magical talent, but either refused/failed to learn to utilize it? With her wand broken, Petunia would be much more Muggle than Witch.


We know Harry was dropped on the Dursley's doorstep with a letter from Dumbledore, explaining everything. What if only Petunia read the letter, and never showed it to Vernon? That would explain Petunia being aware of more than the rest of the family, and possibly knowing quite a bit more than your average muggle (even one with a witch for a sister). .....

That explains some things. It does not explain JKR's comment stating that Petunia, and Petunia alone, had received letters from Dumbledore prior to the letter on the doorstep.

So, we still need a hypothesis that explains the letters prior to "my last."

Hello Wimsey, nice to see another 39-year-old. ;)

We have yet to hear a name for witches and wizards who either do not practice magic or are forbidden to (ie... Hagrid who had his wand broken). I posted in a similar thread that I wonder if Petunia has some limited magical powers but choses to ignore them or deny them because they frighten her.

JKR has given us many "clues", two of which I think Are related...
* a character, rather late in life, will manage magic in desperate circumstances...
* Petunia is a Muggle, BUT...
I believe she may be capable only if frightened or some other circumstance to do magic. It would be rather like people who gain superstrength temporarily in a time of crisis. She could also just be a late bloomer. Perhaps the spell on Lily's blood which protects Harry in her home gives her power to protect him. I do now think the "late in life" clue was about her.

But if she flunked out of Hogwarts or if she left school early, then she failed to become a witch. There is reference to "certified" wizards and witches, after all.
On JKRs site, in the Newspaper, Edinburgh Book Festival, August 2004, she states that, "Petunia is not a squib, she's a muggle, but... :huh: "
There you have it. Petunia is not a witch, she is not a squib, she's a muggle.
Now if I just new what JKR meant by the "but..."

Given JKR's statement that Petunia is a muggle, there is one way, and one way only, in which I can see Petunia as ever having had any magical ability, which is as follows. I do not think that a person goes from a wizard/witch to a muggle simply by deciding they don't want to do magic anymore. The person would still be a wizard/witch, just not an "active" one.

Perhaps Petunia was born with magical talent, went to Hogwarts, and then either was expelled or some event happened that made her want to have nothing to do with magic anymore. Petunia gets Dumbledore or some other powerful wizard to remove all magical powers from her using spells/charms of some sort, and then is able to live her life as a muggle, completely separating herself from the magical world.

Of course, this is highly, highly unlikely. I just can't see any other way that the "Petunia is a muggle now but was/will be a witch" theories can work.

Or, perhaps, Petunia will do some form of magic simply as a result of Dumbledore's charm that was sealed once she accepted Harry into her home...If there were an attack on Harry--not that I believe Petunia would care--but if Dudders was in danger, perhaps this charm would come into play.
As for removing magical powers, like you said, highly unlikely...

I agree with everyone that there is more to Petunia than meets the eye. I however am skeptical about her bing a witch. If she is, she definately doesn't do magic. Because they accuse Harry of all the magic that goes on in that area, and say he is the only witch/wizard in the area. So, she can't be magicing her house clean, or Harry would not be automatically accused of every bit of magic in the area. So, if she is a witch she is hiding it not just from Vernon, but from the wizarding world as well.

I also agree, there is certainly more to Petunia than what meets the eye. I remember someone asking JK if she was a squib, and JK had said no and laughed. There was certainly a "but..." in her response.

Still, Petunia has such a vendetta against magic and her sister. I just can't imagine her ever having been a witch of any kind.

JKR has given us many "clues", two of which I think Are related...
* a character, rather late in life, will manage magic in desperate circumstances...
* Petunia is a Muggle, BUT...
I believe she may be capable only if frightened or some other circumstance to do magic. It would be rather like people who gain superstrength temporarily in a time of crisis. She could also just be a late bloomer. Perhaps the spell on Lily's blood which protects Harry in her home gives her power to protect him. I do now think the "late in life" clue was about her.


Now, first off, pardon my spelling as i'm having a wee bit of insomnia.

The 'late in life' clue is one i could definitly see coming into play. Another person posted that he/she doubted Petunia would do magic to protect harry but possibly Duddley. I don't see this because Dumbledore has no real reason to protect our wee little dudders. However, in each progressive book, i'm more and more suprised by how much Dumbledore DOES know. When he placed Harry with the Dursleys, he knew what they were. As he stated in OoTP, he felt the need to protect him from that time, and to hide him from the wizarding world. Now, we obviously don't know all of Dumbledore's powers, but assuming he cannot directly see into the future, for all he knew, Voldemort could have regained power within months or years. Dumbledore MUST have made further provisions for Harry's safty. I think Petunia may have some sort of charm or something on her that if Harry's life was directly in danger from a magical source, she would be compeled to protect Harry.

Who knows? maybe an attack from Voldemort on Privet Dr. is the reason for Harry's "shortest visit yet"? Made Petunia shows her true connection to Lilly, her love for her sister, by protecting Harry just this once, when it really counts. Sort of like a payback (think Snape saving Harry from Quierell in the first book)

I think Petunia may have some sort of charm or something on her that if Harry's life was directly in danger from a magical source, she would be compeled to protect Harry.


Yeah, insomnia stinks...

The problem with this idea is that it is inconsistent with Dumbledore's character. Dumbledore is a big proponent of giving people chances, and of letting them save (or, in some cases, ****) themselves. He did not coerce Fudge at an equally crucial moment. Dumbledore firmly opposes the mistreatment of Muggles, and such an act would be mistreatment in his book, even if it were for a "greater good."


Who knows? maybe an attack from Voldemort on Privet Dr. is the reason for Harry's "shortest visit yet"? Made Petunia shows her true connection to Lilly, her love for her sister, by protecting Harry just this once, when it really counts. Sort of like a payback (think Snape saving Harry from Quierell in the first book)

JKR also wrote that Harry was leaving Privet Dr. for much happier reasons than being put on trial. That could mean a lot of things, but I think that an attack by Voldemort would be one of those things excluded!



Still, Petunia has such a vendetta against magic and her sister. I just can't imagine her ever having been a witch of any kind.

But why does she have this vendetta? Think on Dumbledore's line about Barty Crouch Jr. and the whole "Liberal" (19th century political, not current colloquial usage) philosophy underlying HP: people are made, not born.

So, we need an explanation for why Petunia hates magic so. People hate things at which they fail or things that they associate with hurts against them. If Petunia had flunked (or been driven) out of Hogwarts, then her natural reaction would be to hate magic and magicians.

This is why the idea is so good: it provides a very simple explanation for why Petunia hates and fears magic, why she so viciously hated her sister, why she got letters from Dumbledore prior to Harry appearing on her doorstep and why she knows about things like Dementors. We also know that there are occassional Muggle-born admitted to Slytherin and that JKR has offered tantalizing hints about what Petunia is.

Other explanations either require many more convolutions to explain these things or fail to explain one or more of these details.

Other explanations either require many more convolutions to explain these things or fail to explain one or more of these details.


So true. Like I said, i was about half asleep, so you are correct. My theory probably was a little convoluted.

I agree with the whole squib/ex-witch idea. Petunia knows way too much to be a muggle. She always seems to know more than she's telling. However, I just have one thing to add against this thread: In the first book, Petunia starts yelling about Lily Potter, "Knew! Of course we knew! How could you not be, my dratted sister being what she was? ... I was the only one who saw her for what she was--- a freak! But for my mother and father, oh no, it was Lily this and Lily that, they were proud of having a witch in the family!" ... "Then she met that Potter at school and they left and got married and had you, and of course I knew you'd be just the same, just as strange, just as--- as--- abnormal--- and then, ...." (HPSS pg. 53 US version). If she was a witch or a squib isn't she unintentionally referring to herself as abnormal/freak/strange?




P.S. I accidentally posted for the first posts and forgot to read the next pages. Sorry! I am new to this whole forum thing. :sad:

But why does she have this vendetta? Think on Dumbledore's line about Barty Crouch Jr. and the whole "Liberal" (19th century political, not current colloquial usage) philosophy underlying HP: people are made, not born.

So, we need an explanation for why Petunia hates magic so. People hate things at which they fail or things that they associate with hurts against them. If Petunia had flunked (or been driven) out of Hogwarts, then her natural reaction would be to hate magic and magicians.

This is why the idea is so good: it provides a very simple explanation for why Petunia hates and fears magic, why she so viciously hated her sister, why she got letters from Dumbledore prior to Harry appearing on her doorstep and why she knows about things like Dementors. We also know that there are occassional Muggle-born admitted to Slytherin and that JKR has offered tantalizing hints about what Petunia is.

Other explanations either require many more convolutions to explain these things or fail to explain one or more of these details.
She's a muggle. Muggles have no magic. If she failed at Hogwarts she would be a talentless witch, not even a squib since she would have some magic and squibs have none. JKR said she was muggle, I'm going to believe her.

She's a muggle. Muggles have no magic. If she failed at Hogwarts she would be a talentless witch, not even a squib since she would have some magic and squibs have none. JKR said she was muggle, I'm going to believe her.
Jo also says that families are not obligated to send their children to Hogwarts, I wonder if these children loose their ability in time, kind of like a muscle that atrophies from lack of use? If, this is the case, could this explain Petunia?
:huh:
Cheers

Jo also says that families are not obligated to send their children to Hogwarts, I wonder if these children loose their ability in time, kind of like a muscle that atrophies from lack of use? If, this is the case, could this explain Petunia?
:huh:
Cheers
Unless her powers were magically extracted from her, I think some residual magic would remain even if she was lousy at it. And even then she would be a witch who lost her powers and not a muggle (maybe more like a squib). I think that what we'll learn is that Petunia knows a lot more about the wizarding world than she lets on.

Also if my hypothesis about Lily being a Gryffindor heir is right, Petunia is also a Gryffindor heir (although non-magical). That would make both her and Dudley targets if Voldemort wants to rid the world of all potential Gryffindor heirs, since even though they are non-magical, they could possibly produce magical children with the Gryffindor heritage. And since Voldemort wants to be immortal, he would worry about potental future generations.

The prior paragraph is hypothetical, and at the very least we will just learn that Petunia has been holding out on Harry on how much she knows about the wizarding world.

Still, Petunia has such a vendetta against magic and her sister.
I suppose she could have a vendetta because she associates magic with pain :sad: . We don't know how Lily's parents died :upset: (just that it was before Lily and James - Petunia is his only living blood relative), it could be that Voldemort killed them. If Magic killed your parents, wouldn't you hate it?

I know this doesn't explain why Petunia hated Lily as soon as she found out she was a witch. I suppose if you hate something long enough, you'll think you've always hated it?

Someone had said something about that if Petunia was magical she would have know who ARabella Figg was. She probably did, which is why she always had Harry stay with her when the Dursleys went away. If Figg is in direct contact with Dumbledore, then Harry would be safe because he could get there easily.

I don't really get why people say Petunia had to have known Figgy was a squib.

Not that I'm against the idea, its just that people are so certain.

I mean, Petunia seems to have pretty much cut herself off from the wizarding world, if she was ever part of it. Harry didn't know about Figgy. Saying that because Petunia was/is a witch she must know Figgy is like saying just because your a muggle, you automatically know all muggles...

I get that it is a huge coincidence that Figgy was the one looking after Harry, but its a stretch to say Petunia knew she was a squib. It seems no-one else wanted to take Harry.

Remember, coincidences happen *cough*MarkEvans*cough*

I think it is very possible that she is just a very well informed muggle. For instance, the Grangers are linked to the magical world through their daughter, so obviously they know a certain amount of what their daughter does. I kind of wonder if Lily and Petunia were fairly close before she died. If that is true than Lily would have shared everything about the wizarding world with her sister. Then Voldemort kills her sister, her closest friend, and therefore resents magic for her death. The animosity towards James could be because he dragged her so far into the battle against Voldemort that there was no escaping. Petunia is probably still grieving and may be angry at Lily for getting herself blown up. Harry is a constant reminder of what Petunia lost, so she keeps him at arms length just to keep her emotions safe. The Dursleys tried to squash the magic out of him so that he wouldnt follow in his parents footsteps an potentially meet the same end. Well, that is one of my theories...

Doesn't anyone read what JKR writes? She has said repeatedly that everyone in Lily's family except Lily is a MUGGLE.

I don't really get why people say Petunia had to have known Figgy was a squib.

Not that I'm against the idea, its just that people are so certain.

I mean, Petunia seems to have pretty much cut herself off from the wizarding world, if she was ever part of it. Harry didn't know about Figgy. Saying that because Petunia was/is a witch she must know Figgy is like saying just because your a muggle, you automatically know all muggles...

I get that it is a huge coincidence that Figgy was the one looking after Harry, but its a stretch to say Petunia knew she was a squib. It seems no-one else wanted to take Harry.

Remember, coincidences happen *cough*MarkEvans*cough*
I wasn't saying that Petunia knew Mrs. Figg was a squib. Here's what I commented on:
Perhaps her [Petunia's] knowledge of the wizarding world has been enhanced, not by over-hearing conversations, and seeing her sister at home on the holidays. Perhaps Petunia is aware of certain things through Mrs. Figg.
Mrs. Figg is Dumbledore's liason between the magic and muggle worlds, according to what is stated on her in the Squibbs portion of JKRs site. This may also explain why she (Petunia) allows Harry to be kept by the batty old Mrs. Figg, while the Dursleys are away from their home.
Although, now that I re-read what I wrote, it does imply Petunia would know...hmmm

I wasn't talking about you in particular (it was actually lilducky's post that I was replying to), its just a general thing in the forums...

Sorry, I haven't read all of the posts.
...that's a lost of posts, anyways, I will say what I think anyways, and if I repeat someone, then maybe someone will think, hey, I thought of that, and it would just help confirm, anyways...

I read in one of JKR's interviews that Petunia was definetly a muggle. And she wasn't a squib. If she was a muggle, that would rule out her going to Hogwarts, wouldn't it? A muggle is someone with no magical abilities. She would be a wizard (or pardon me, a witch) if she had magical powers. McGonagal only writes letters to the girls and boys who showed magical abilities. They're born with these abilities. I would imagine that you couldn't lose them, either. Even if you got expelled or quit or whatever, you would still be a wizard/witch. Which Petunia isn't. JKR said that what was up with Petunia was much more complicated than just being a squib. I think that she was jealous of Lily's abilities (to say the least). Possibly, she kind of got shunned because she didn't display this extraordinary talent like Lily. She may have even traveled to Diagon Alley and was just taken aback by all of this stuff. Petunia was Lily's older sister, right? So she probably came to question why she didn't have powers like her sister. Maybe she tried to do things with Lily's wand...I don't know. She read some of her books and was upset that no matter how knowledgable she became in witchcraft, she would never be able to do it. She may have tried kwikspell types of things like Filch did, but she wasn't even a squib, so she had no magical blood.

Does this make sense? If not, I'll try to clarify.

JKRs quote said something like:
she's a muggle, but...
It's that 'but' we are considering.

The definition of muggle has been argued...what does 'non magic folk' (Hagrid) mean? Is it someone that never could do magic, someone that chooses not to, someone that has had their powers stripped?

Some people theorise Petunia was a witch, got her letter, and either chose not to go, or left before she graduated. She's chosen (or been forced) to live as a muggle, so is she a muggle, even though she has/had magical abilities she doesn't use?

She's a muggle. Muggles have no magic. If she failed at Hogwarts she would be a talentless witch, not even a squib since she would have some magic and squibs have none. JKR said she was muggle, I'm going to believe her.

JKR said that she was a muggle "but....."

She also made a point that Dumbledore had sent her letters before.

Moreover, would she simply be a talentless witch? After all, I consider it just as likely that she left of her own free will as that she flunked out.

So, what is someone who refuses to become a witch/wizard? That is what I think Petunia is. "A muggle, but...."


JKRs quote said something like:
she's a muggle, but...
It's that 'but' we are considering.

The definition of muggle has been argued...what does 'non magic folk' (Hagrid) mean? Is it someone that never could do magic, someone that chooses not to, someone that has had their powers stripped?


You hit the nail on the head. If Petunia learned very little magic and if she was forced to relinquish her wand, then she is no witch.


In a way, people are setting themselves up for the same trap that many walked into 2+ years ago. So many people thought that Colin or Ginny would die because JKR stated that a "fan" of Harry's would die. People then would use a fairly restricted definition of "fan" to make their inferences. Obviously, JKR's definition of the concept was broader than others.

I don't think Petunia is a witch- she knows all this stuff because Lily was her sister, and of course her family would find out about the wizarding world and many facts about it because their daughter and son-in-law are a witch and wizard. I think that there is probably like a magic gene, and it was recessive in Lily's family, and she got it- that's why she is muggle-born. Dudley's child might be a witch or a wizard (if he ever gets that far- HA!) These are just my thoughts, but anything could happen.

I think it is very possible that she is just a very well informed muggle. For instance, the Grangers are linked to the magical world through their daughter, so obviously they know a certain amount of what their daughter does. I kind of wonder if Lily and Petunia were fairly close before she died. If that is true than Lily would have shared everything about the wizarding world with her sister. Then Voldemort kills her sister, her closest friend, and therefore resents magic for her death. The animosity towards James could be because he dragged her so far into the battle against Voldemort that there was no escaping. Petunia is probably still grieving and may be angry at Lily for getting herself blown up. Harry is a constant reminder of what Petunia lost, so she keeps him at arms length just to keep her emotions safe. The Dursleys tried to squash the magic out of him so that he wouldnt follow in his parents footsteps an potentially meet the same end. Well, that is one of my theories...


Personally, I really like this theory. The big, often quoted "She's a muggle, but....." could be taken to mean a very close relationship to a particular witch. Almost like a sympathy pain. Maybe Petunia had no magical ability (or thought she didn't) but she heard so much and was so jealous of Lilly..... I don't know. Petunia and Lilly being close in Lilly's life time make seems to anwser alot of questions, but like everything else it opens even more.

I read in one of JKR's interviews that Petunia was definetly a muggle. And she wasn't a squib. If she was a muggle, that would rule out her going to Hogwarts, wouldn't it? A muggle is someone with no magical abilities. She would be a wizard (or pardon me, a witch) if she had magical powers. McGonagal only writes letters to the girls and boys who showed magical abilities. They're born with these abilities. I would imagine that you couldn't lose them, either. Even if you got expelled or quit or whatever, you would still be a wizard/witch. Which Petunia isn't. JKR said that what was up with Petunia was much more complicated than just being a squib. I think that she was jealous of Lily's abilities (to say the least). Possibly, she kind of got shunned because she didn't display this extraordinary talent like Lily. She may have even traveled to Diagon Alley and was just taken aback by all of this stuff. Petunia was Lily's older sister, right? So she probably came to question why she didn't have powers like her sister. Maybe she tried to do things with Lily's wand...I don't know. She read some of her books and was upset that no matter how knowledgable she became in witchcraft, she would never be able to do it. She may have tried kwikspell types of things like Filch did, but she wasn't even a squib, so she had no magical blood.

Does this make sense? If not, I'll try to clarify.

I think you're absolutely right...I don't think Petunia is, ever was, or ever will be a witch. I think the "not a muggle, but..." part of JKR's quote likely means that at one time, the relationship between Petunia and Lily was very good, and during that time Petunia learned a lot about the wizarding world, hence her knowledge of Dementors and who knows how much else.