Romantic moments & that scene in Deathly Hallows

How were there any charged up moments between them during that time when Harry and Hermione hardly even spoke to each other when Ron was gone? This whole triangle subplot is totally created by the filmmakers when nothing romantic ever existed between Harry and Hermione in the books. Now Heyman is basically saying that I should want Harry and Hermione together. It's not a good thing to basically just dismiss part of your fanbase for these movies which is essentially what he is doing. I mean I can't remember a single R/Hr scene being talked up like this, or this much effort being put into one of their scenes.

I agree with everthing you said!:tu:
And what about any H/G scenes being talked up? They have NEVER been given this treatment.:td:
In OotP it was all about Harry and Hosepipe's kiss.:grumble:
In HBP the fuss was all about Ron and Lavender's kiss:D
Now we get all this effort put into this dance scene and the Horcrux kiss.:grumble:
Part 2 will, hopefully, have the R/Hr kiss to talk about but still no emphasis on the relationship between the Main character and his future wife!:td:

I just hope that Yates and Kloves put as much effort into the Ron/Hermione scenes in part two as they did this one scene, and not just the kiss scene.


And what about any H/G scenes being talked up? They have NEVER been given this treatment.


Well it has always been obvious to me that they don't care about that relationship at all. The only relationship that is really truly important to them in the Harry/Hermione relationship.

To be honest, I think most of the fuss about this scene has been created by us, the fan base. The scene, I believe, is being talked up so much because it was one of the few scenes added. And it is also a very poignant scene, whether you see romance there or not. Having read many reviews and watched plenty of interviews with the cast, I can say that the only times I've come across this scene being mentioned in such depth are on snippets of interviews posted here. Maybe I'm not looking hard enough though?


Definitely :agree:

I wasn't by any means saying that they haven't commented on the scene, just that it hasn't been the central focus of the movie or interviews like it has for the fan base. I mean, we have a thread in excess of how many pages now (?) almost entirely dedicated to this one scene. Relatively speaking, the cast and crew haven't given it as much attention as we, the fans, have.

Also, it should be noted that in the interview posted by magic_is_might, Kloves mentioned the scene in the context of other scenes added to the movie.

That being said, I do recognise the scene has been addressed numerous times by Kloves and Yates. I just think we're all making a bigger deal out of it than it deserves.

You might think it is just the fans, but here, in all the newspaper and magazine articles about this movie, they mention first the Horcrux kiss and the nudity. (Some make out it's a real kiss and not an imaginary one.)
Then they mention the Trio fight and H/Hr being alone and the dance is spoken about.
Very few mention Ginny at all. Some, luckily, do have a picture of H/G's kiss and I am grateful to see it.
The Horcrux kiss and dance scene have been spoken of to death in relation to this movie's publicity!

I just think we're all making a bigger deal out of it than it deserves.

I couldn't agree more, lol.

This scene has become a thoroughly beaten dead horse with 15 horcruxes, all of which have also been beaten.

I think I've already said and attempted to say all can possibly say on this scene. I like it. I saw no problem with it. I don't understand the outrage over it (or outrage at JKR, who wrote the book and knows the characters better than anyone, yet does not seem bothered by the film's interpretation and has even expressed views that mirror the film's interpretation...)

All I can say now is that best friends are allowed the dance and cheer each other up when they are sad. They are allowed to enjoy each other's company. And when under extreme stress, they may even find comfort in each other's arms--though Harry and Hermione don't even go that far. They merely have a silly dance, laugh, and find themselves back in inevitable misery because they are two teens with the weight of saving the world on their shoulders and the knowledge that a member of their team is missing.

I couldn't agree more, lol.

This scene has become a thoroughly beaten dead horse with 15 horcruxes, all of which have also been beaten.


Excellent way of putting it :lol:

And completely true :agree:

You might think it is just the fans, but here, in all the newspaper and magazine articles about this movie, they mention first the Horcrux kiss and the nudity. (Some make out it's a real kiss and not an imaginary one.)
Then they mention the Trio fight and H/Hr being alone and the dance is spoken about.
Very few mention Ginny at all. Some, luckily, do have a picture of H/G's kiss and I am grateful to see it.
The Horcrux kiss and dance scene have been spoken of to death in relation to this movie's publicity!

I notice you're from East Coast of Aus. Same here. I have noticed in one of the papers (I forget which one) the little blurb says something about a "sex scene" in relation to the Horcrux kiss. And everytime I read that I want to slam my face into the table, or better yet the reviewer's face. Nonetheless, I think the media has focused more on the Horcrux scene, yes definitely (sex sells after all) but I was referring purely to the dance scene. Most references that I've seen in the papers have been about it being a beautiful scene about friendship. I haven't noted any mentioning a Harry/Hermione relationship or the like. Though, I'm ok with being proven wrong!

I think the gist of what I'm trying to say though, is that we, as fans, have taken the bait. It's almost as if the media, in some parts, have gone "oooh look a controversial scene that wasn't in the book, what are you gonna say about that, huh?" and we've fallen hook, line and sinker for their little ploy for attention.

Everything i have read has said that the scene suggests that there is something between Harry and Hermione in the scene. Which there is.

Everything i have read has said that the scene suggests that there is something between Harry and Hermione in the scene. Which there is.

Tis a matter of interpretation :rolleyes:

Everything i have read has said that the scene suggests that there is something between Harry and Hermione in the scene. Which there is.

I still think there is way more from Harry then Hermione, but yeah, this scene still occasionally makes me question Ron and Hermione's relationship, even though I was happy with their scenes in this movie. Part two really needs to make it clear once and for all, before the kiss, that it is Ron that Hermione wants. There needs to be absolutely no question.

OK, let's lay it our flat.

Some see sexual tension in the you-know-when and some don't. But does anyone actually see Romance? As in love, as in feelings akin to what Ron evidently feels for Hermione?

Because, I have no problems with sexual tension. I can see the sexual tension thing and I have no problems with it because, to me, it clearly isn't romance or love. Just something biological and pyschological, that is the foundation of human interactions.

OK, let's lay it our flat.

Some see sexual tension in the you-know-when and some don't. But does anyone actually see Romance? As in love, as in feelings akin to what Ron evidently feels for Hermione?

Because, I have no problems with sexual tension. I can see the sexual tension thing and I have no problems with it because, to me, it clearly isn't romance or love. Just something biological and pyschological, that is the foundation of human interactions.

Well Harry to me, looked like he does have feelings for her in that scene that go beyond sexual tension, do I think Hermione is in love with Harry or acting like it in that scene? No. In fact I don't even see much sexual tension from her, if any in that scene. There should be no sexual tension though from either of them.

I think this is the most in depth commentary we've had on the dance scene and I think it's very clear that Ron was present. Kloves doesn't mention sexual tension here or anything. He implies that there were strong and confusing emotions going on, but also brings up the idea that Ron is at the core of these emotions. He is the centre upon which the scene revolves.


And JKR as even said as much...repeatedly! Ron is the heart of the group, he is the glue that really keeps them together, and when he leaves in DH it's not the same at all for Harry and Hermione.

That scene wasn't an attempt to push Harry/Hermione at all. If we choose to look at it as only through the lens of romantic relationships, then we're really missing the varied nuances of the scene.

First and foremost it's about Harry trying to cheer up his best friend. And, yes, there's a little bit of obvious tension it as well....which is normal. It doesn't mean that Hermione doesn't love Ron or that Harry doesn't love Ginny. All it means is that they are two young people alone, never knowing if they're going to manage to save the world or die trying, and their best friends has just left them. They need comfort. Any comfort, and for the briefest of moments that comfort could have taken a romantic form.

But it passes and at the end of it all, Hermione leaves Harry and goes back to the radio. She goes back to Ron. She chooses Ron.

I still think there is way more from Harry then Hermione, but yeah, this scene still occasionally makes me question Ron and Hermione's relationship, even though I was happy with their scenes in this movie. Part two really needs to make it clear once and for all, before the kiss, that it is Ron that Hermione wants. There needs to be absolutely no question.

I don't think there is any question at all where Hermione's heart lies and there hasn't been any question since her breakdown after the Yule Ball in GoF. Every film since then has only built on that. It's really actually kind of hard to miss.

Well Harry to me, looked like he does have feelings for her in that scene that go beyond sexual tension, do I think Hermione is in love with Harry or acting like it in that scene? No. In fact I don't even see much sexual tension from her, if any in that scene. There should be no sexual tension though from either of them.

Why not? For all intents and purposes they're alone in the world. I don't think there's romantic love between them, but I don't doubt for one second that two people in their situation would look at each other at some desperate point in time and wonder, "What if?"

And JKR as even said as much...repeatedly! Ron is the heart of the group, he is the glue that really keeps them together, and when he leaves in DH it's not the same at all for Harry and Hermione.

That scene wasn't an attempt to push Harry/Hermione at all. If we choose to look at it as only through the lens of romantic relationships, then we're really missing the varied nuances of the scene.

First and foremost it's about Harry trying to cheer up his best friend. And, yes, there's a little bit of obvious tension it as well....which is normal. It doesn't mean that Hermione doesn't love Ron or that Harry doesn't love Ginny. All it means is that they are two young people alone, never knowing if they're going to manage to save the world or die trying, and their best friends has just left them. They need comfort. Any comfort, and for the briefest of moments that comfort could have taken a romantic form.

But it passes and at the end of it all, Hermione leaves Harry and goes back to the radio. She goes back to Ron. She chooses Ron.



I don't think there is any question at all where Hermione's heart lies and there hasn't been any question since her breakdown after the Yule Ball in GoF. Every film since then has only built on that. It's really actually kind of hard to miss.



Why not? For all intents and purposes they're alone in the world. I don't think there's romantic love between them, but I don't doubt for one second that two people in their situation would look at each other at some desperate point in time and wonder, "What if?"

If that were the case though, then I don't think there would be this type of debate. I know she loves Ron because of the books, and like I've said before, she definitely "chooses" him in this movie, but I just feel like there needs to be something in the next movie other then the kiss that totally ends the debate.


Why not? For all intents and purposes they're alone in the world. I don't think there's romantic love between them, but I don't doubt for one second that two people in their situation would look at each other at some desperate point in time and wonder, "What if?"

I don't think that Harry and Hermione would ever think that about each other like that. That might be my book bias talking, but I don't think they ever thought of each other that way. It cheapens the relationships they have with other people if that's the case.

And JKR as even said as much...repeatedly! Ron is the heart of the group, he is the glue that really keeps them together, and when he leaves in DH it's not the same at all for Harry and Hermione.

That scene wasn't an attempt to push Harry/Hermione at all. If we choose to look at it as only through the lens of romantic relationships, then we're really missing the varied nuances of the scene.

First and foremost it's about Harry trying to cheer up his best friend. And, yes, there's a little bit of obvious tension it as well....which is normal. It doesn't mean that Hermione doesn't love Ron or that Harry doesn't love Ginny. All it means is that they are two young people alone, never knowing if they're going to manage to save the world or die trying, and their best friends has just left them. They need comfort. Any comfort, and for the briefest of moments that comfort could have taken a romantic form.

But it passes and at the end of it all, Hermione leaves Harry and goes back to the radio. She goes back to Ron. She chooses Ron.



I don't think there is any question at all where Hermione's heart lies and there hasn't been any question since her breakdown after the Yule Ball in GoF. Every film since then has only built on that. It's really actually kind of hard to miss.



Why not? For all intents and purposes they're alone in the world. I don't think there's romantic love between them, but I don't doubt for one second that two people in their situation would look at each other at some desperate point in time and wonder, "What if?"


You sir/madam, are a like mind, virtual hi-five!:tu:

I think the best thing you said though was about the nuances of the dance scene. It's about so much more than the relationships, the song selection even speaks to this, 'O Children' carries themes of innocence lost. The scene is tinged with both sadness and happiness, with intimacy and friendship, with loss and hope. We just have to remember that it is highly unlikely that they would include a non-canon scene purely to push the relationships. There's so much more going on here.

I guess what it really boils down to is that I'm just tired of hearing about what a wonderful bond Harry and Hermione have and how they share something that Ron will never understand, or whatever it was that JKR said. Hermione marries Ron and yet based on that comment, it's like what she shares with him doesn't really go beyond surface level and can never compete with that she has with Harry. I just wish there were more balance to the scenes and the importance put on both relationships.

I just can't believe how much talk this 2 minute scene has caused :lol:

It's definitely a complex and multi-layered scene.

I guess what it really boils down to is that I'm just tired of hearing about what a wonderful bond Harry and Hermione have and how they share something that Ron will never understand, or whatever it was that JKR said. Hermione marries Ron and yet based on that comment, it's like what she shares with him doesn't really go beyond surface level and can never compete with that she has with Harry. I just wish there were more balance to the scenes and the importance put on both relationships.

I don't think JKR was necessarily saying that Ron will be excluded from any deeper relationship because he walked out, but merely that Ron would never truly be able to comprehend the loss that Hermione felt when he did, and the subsequent heartbreak and isolation that both her and Harry felt. Harry and Hermione were essentially united in their loss. Something that Ron doesn't share because, in part, he was the cause. In the same respect, Ron and Hermione share something that Harry will never understand, leaving their families to join him (evident in the Obliviate scenes and the fight). Even so, as the above interview with Kloves indicated, Ron's presence was everywhere even after he left. Just remember, JKR is the one who created the R/Hr relationship, the one who called H/Hr shippers out for being completely wrong, I don't think she would ever deliberately convey the idea that Harry and Hermione have a deeper bond than Ron and Hermione.

I guess what it really boils down to is that I'm just tired of hearing about what a wonderful bond Harry and Hermione have and how they share something that Ron will never understand, or whatever it was that JKR said. Hermione marries Ron and yet based on that comment, it's like what she shares with him doesn't really go beyond surface level and can never compete with that she has with Harry. I just wish there were more balance to the scenes and the importance put on both relationships.

The thing is is that no one is saying that Ron could never compete with Harry.

In fact - it's the other way around.

Her heart is set on Ron. Harry, despite his efforts, can not cheer her up because she needs Ron. So I think it's the other way around - Harry can't compete with Ron when it comes to Hermione.

I guess what it really boils down to is that I'm just tired of hearing about what a wonderful bond Harry and Hermione have and how they share something that Ron will never understand, or whatever it was that JKR said. Hermione marries Ron and yet based on that comment, it's like what she shares with him doesn't really go beyond surface level and can never compete with that she has with Harry. I just wish there were more balance to the scenes and the importance put on both relationships.

But they do share something that Ron will never understand. As free_elf pointed out so eloquently, they shared the loss of Ron. Ron can't share in that. He will never know what that felt like for them or what they endured after he left because he simply wasn't there.

Overmore, Harry and Hermione share something that Ron will never understand in as much as any two people who are as close as they are share a bond or a friendship that only the two of them can truly comprehend. But that doesn't devalue Ron or his relationship with either of them. It just makes all their relationships different and different doesn't necessarily equate to bad.

Harry and Hermione were only children - no siblings. Muggles up until the age of 11, who were thrust into a wizarding world they'd never known existed. They've become brother and sister essentially and, no, Ron can never understand that.

Nor should he. It would make his relationship with Hermione kind of wrong.

You can't shove Harry and Hermione's relationship aside just because Hermione and Ron are in love. Harry and Hermione's bond is just as important to the story as Hermione and Ron's. I highly doubt Hermione would have obliviated her parents if she didn't trust, love, and believe in Harry one hundred percent. It's a lot harder to write and portray platonic love than it is to write and portray romantic love, but those platonic relationships are the cornerstones friendships and relationships that drive any worthwhile story.

you Sir/madam, Are A Like Mind, Virtual Hi-five!:tu:


:d

But they do share something that Ron will never understand. As free_elf pointed out so eloquently, they shared the loss of Ron. Ron can't share in that. He will never know what that felt like for them or what they endured after he left because he simply wasn't there.

Overmore, Harry and Hermione share something that Ron will never understand in as much as any two people who are as close as they are share a bond or a friendship that only the two of them can truly comprehend. But that doesn't devalue Ron or his relationship with either of them. It just makes all their relationships different and different doesn't necessarily equate to bad.

Harry and Hermione were only children - no siblings. Muggles up until the age of 11, who were thrust into a wizarding world they'd never known existed. They've become brother and sister essentially and, no, Ron can never understand that.

Nor should he. It would make his relationship with Hermione kind of wrong.

You can't shove Harry and Hermione's relationship aside just because Hermione and Ron are in love. Harry and Hermione's bond is just as important to the story as Hermione and Ron's. I highly doubt Hermione would have obliviated her parents if she didn't trust, love, and believe in Harry one hundred percent. It's a lot harder to write and portray platonic love than it is to write and portray romantic love, but those platonic relationships are the cornerstones friendships and relationships that drive any worthwhile story.



:d



I don't think it should be pushed aside by any means. However, the implications by the movies and the quotes from the filmmakers that basically say that what she shares with Harry is deeper and more important then what she shares with Ron bothers me. There just has to be a balance. Ron and Hermione's relationship shouldn't be pushed aside for Harry and Hermione either and in these movies it essentially has been.

in all fairness, harry is the main character, and in relation to the movies, they only have a limited time to tell a story; therefore ron/hermione's relationship more likely than not will be pushed aside in favor of the hero. book fans will understand that the ron/hermione relationship is developed on the page, not the screen. i think the film makers have justified the ron/hermione relationship the best they can with the time they have. I am a fan of the dance? no. but i understand the reason behind it, and after seeing the film a few times, it was not as bad as some people want to make it out to be.

in all fairness, harry is the main character, and in relation to the movies, they only have a limited time to tell a story; therefore ron/hermione's relationship more likely than not will be pushed aside in favor of the hero. book fans will understand that the ron/hermione relationship is developed on the page, not the screen. i think the film makers have justified the ron/hermione relationship the best they can with the time they have. I am a fan of the dance? no. but i understand the reason behind it, and after seeing the film a few times, it was not as bad as some people want to make it out to be.

The problem with that theory is i can't help but feel that in the movies Harry is not as close to Ron as he is in the books. In fact the only relationship with the trio that is closer in the movies than they are in the books is Harry and Hermione.

"Harry's intention, initially, is simply to draw her out of her melancholy by distracting her. And it shows the danger of raw emotion. They begin to feel joy, which is very simple -- he's successful at drawing her out of her melancholy. But then the intimacy becomes more complicated, as raw emotions do. They realize that they're alone, and they both think of the same person, Ron, and it's complicated now."

I think this is the most in depth commentary we've had on the dance scene and I think it's very clear that Ron was present. Kloves doesn't mention sexual tension here or anything. He implies that there were strong and confusing emotions going on, but also brings up the idea that Ron is at the core of these emotions. He is the centre upon which the scene revolves. Try not to be too disappointed Erin6, Kloves seems to be implying that the real emotions of each character are brought about in the loneliness of Ron's absence. At least, that's how I read it. Kloves need not have mentioned Ron at all, but he did.


No, he might not use the words 'sexual tension,' but he does say it becomes 'complicated,' and given the context of the subject at hand, it could pretty much be used as a synonym for 'sexual tension.'
Not that everyone saw it as such, but there are a lot who did interpret that scene as the two of them flirting with the idea of being something more, and Ron did accuse them of being ‘something more’, and I think that accusation registers with Hermione when her and Harry become a little bit too close for comfort. But I can't see it hitting Harry though. Where I can see Hermione realise this, Harry looks to be in the moment and almost expecting. And the way he stares after her once she turns away, he looks almost angry. lol. I'm not sure why I see that in his face, but I do. And I'm not of the opinion that he was trying to seduce her -- although I do think the scene began a little too intimately for my liking -- I believe his intent was to cheer her up, but somewhere along the way it became something more, and to me, it almost looked as though he was disappointed that it didn't. Or maybe that disappointment was more about having to return back to reality.

The problem with that theory is i can't help but feel that in the movies Harry is not as close to Ron as he is in the books. In fact the only relationship with the trio that is closer in the movies than they are in the books is Harry and Hermione.

I think we all have to understand that these films are just an adaptation of the books, somethings will be different. Ron's purpose in the books is totally different than his purpose in the movies. its something that we have to deal with and look at the books and the films as two different products. The reason why harry and hermione are closer in the films is because its hollywood, the lead guy and lead girl always drive the plot, hence they needed to be closer than in the books

I think we all have to understand that these films are just an adaptation of the books, somethings will be different. Ron's purpose in the books is totally different than his purpose in the movies. its something that we have to deal with and look at the books and the films as two different products. The reason why harry and hermione are closer in the films is because its hollywood, the lead guy and lead girl always drive the plot, hence they needed to be closer than in the books

In my opinion, there are great Hollywood films that don’t follow the pattern of a lead guy and a lead girl, unless, their main story is about this man and this woman and their relationship. I think the only lead character in these films is Harry Potter. We experience almost everything he goes through. We discovered with him he was a wizard, we follow him through his adventures, etc. The only time we experience what Hermione is going through without Harry there, is in the opening montage of DH part 1. So from a film perspective, Harry is the lead character. Now, from a marketing perspective (or for awards, where they need to categorize who’s leading and who’s supporting) you could say that Harry is the lead guy and Hermione is the lead girl but, in my opinion, that’s not what we see represented in the films.

I really liked the dance scene and I actually love what Kloves said about it. I wish they would have explored Harry and Ron’s friendship a bit more but I don’t expect the films to be an exact replica of the books. I also think that the changes in directors have prevented the film series from really being its own interpretation of the books and that can be confusing for casual viewers but that’s not really on topic.

I really wish JKR would stop humouring these people as she seems very unwilling to come out and tell people that their interpretations of a certain character or certain relationship is wrong.Perhaps the author just is open for the rules an adaption from book to movie includes as also polite enough to mention it. It doesn't change her book if she also enjoys a scene developed for the film. I think it's fully fine if she states her opinion since it doesn't change mine either.

And JKR as even said as much...repeatedly! Ron is the heart of the group, he is the glue that really keeps them together, and when he leaves in DH it's not the same at all for Harry and Hermione.

That scene wasn't an attempt to push Harry/Hermione at all. If we choose to look at it as only through the lens of romantic relationships, then we're really missing the varied nuances of the scene.

I applaud the filmakers for showing the intricacies of the trios relationship. Because this scene was about all three of them!

If that were the case though, then I don't think there would be this type of debate.

I don't think that Harry and Hermione would ever think that about each other like that. That might be my book bias talking, but I don't think they ever thought of each other that way. It cheapens the relationships they have with other people if that's the case.

But relationships (romantic or friendships) are not black and white. We know Hermione loves Ron; Harry loves Ginny, but Harry and Hermione share a deep friendshship and it not unrealistic to think that in a situation like this a fleeting thought could occur. It is a testament to their strong friendship that was all it was. It does not lessen their feelings for Ron or Ginny.

The scene is tinged with both sadness and happiness, with intimacy and friendship, with loss and hope. There's so much more going on here.


It's definitely a complex and multi-layered scene.

Exactly, it mirrors real life relationships. When you read Kloves interview that is exactly what he tries to get across IMO. This is not a superficial relationship that the three share. All three share a deep bond and when one is not physically present the loss is felt. JKR showed this throughout the books.

The thing is is that no one is saying that Ron could never compete with Harry.

In fact - it's the other way around.

Her heart is set on Ron. Harry, despite his efforts, can not cheer her up because she needs Ron. So I think it's the other way around - Harry can't compete with Ron when it comes to Hermione.

:tu: And this is what I think his look conveyed at the end of the dance. Sadness, because he realized that as strong as the friendship was she needed Ron to be there.

But they do share something that Ron will never understand. He will never know what that felt like for them or what they endured after he left because he simply wasn't there.

But that doesn't devalue Ron or his relationship with either of them. It just makes all their relationships different and different doesn't necessarily equate to bad.

Harry and Hermione were only children - no siblings. Muggles up until the age of 11, who were thrust into a wizarding world they'd never known existed. They've become brother and sister essentially and, no, Ron can never understand that.

You can't shove Harry and Hermione's relationship aside just because Hermione and Ron are in love. Harry and Hermione's bond is just as important to the story as Hermione and Ron's. I highly doubt Hermione would have obliviated her parents if she didn't trust, love, and believe in Harry one hundred percent. It's a lot harder to write and portray platonic love than it is to write and portray romantic love, but those platonic relationships are the cornerstones friendships and relationships that drive any worthwhile story. :d

:clap: Yes, people have all kinds of friendships. Each is important in its own way. Each serves its own purpose. Each has its own story and history and shares different experiences. If you didn't have these nuances it would fall flat as a story. We get to see throughout this movie how the characters actually relate to each other like we have never before.

-- I believe his intent was to cheer her up, but somewhere along the way it became something more, and to me, it almost looked as though he was disappointed that it didn't. Or maybe that disappointment was more about having to return back to reality.

I took the disappointment as him not being enough to cheer her and let her escape from their reality. He realized it would never be the same without Ron with them. And he couldn't give that to her and maybe even felt that yes, it was his fault and he couldn't fix that.

But relationships (romantic or friendships) are not black and white. We know Hermione loves Ron; Harry loves Ginny, but Harry and Hermione share a deep friendshship and it not unrealistic to think that in a situation like this a fleeting thought could occur. It is a testament to their strong friendship that was all it was. It does not lessen their feelings for Ron or Ginny.


Maybe they should spend less time worrying about Harry's relationship with Hermione and a bit more time trying to establish that Ron and Harry are actually friends instead of making it look like Ron just tags along. Or better yet maybe they could try and make it look like Harry and Ginny care for each other as they have done a woeful job with that relationship.

Maybe they should spend less time worrying about Harry's relationship with Hermione and a bit more time trying to establish that Ron and Harry are actually friends instead of making it look like Ron just tags along. Or better yet maybe they could try and make it look like Harry and Ginny care for each other as they have done a woeful job with that relationship.

I agree that the movies haven't shown Ron as well as they could have. I think they did show that Harry values Rons friendship in this movie though. The scene at the burrow where he tries to sneak out shows that Ron does have a big influence on Harry. I mean even in the books it was Ron who was absent at different points, but Hermione was always there. But of course you had Harry's thoughts, so you knew that he still valued Rons friendship.

And I think it is very important to show that Harry and Hermione have this strong friendship or you would be left wondering why she didn't leave with Ron instead of staying on this dangerous & seemingly impossible mission.

The Harry/Ginny relationship is just not going to be emphasized I think because she isn't part of the trio and movie wise she is not as important to the overall story arc. And to be realistic it was never given too much attention in the books either (though I never had a doubt that they would end up together ;)).

But relationships (romantic or friendships) are not black and white. We know Hermione loves Ron; Harry loves Ginny, but Harry and Hermione share a deep friendshship and it not unrealistic to think that in a situation like this a fleeting thought could occur.


Exactly, it mirrors real life relationships...This is not a superficial relationship that the three share. All three share a deep bond and when one is not physically present the loss is felt.....And this is what I think his look conveyed at the end of the dance. Sadness, because he realized that as strong as the friendship was she needed Ron to be there.



I tend to agree that this scene has been beaten to death, but I've seen the film 3 times and each time I see this scene I like it more so I felt like I should weigh in. I agree 100% with the above poster. I think it's a great testament to their friendship. I loved that interview because it cemented a lot of what I already thought, which was that the radio was meant to represent Ron.

The more I think about it the more I am reminded of a personal situation of mine. Now, I'm not one to share my life story on a public message board, but good Lord, the controversy over this scene is getting out of control. So the basics of my story = my best friend in grad school is a guy, I get my heartbroken, guy friend is in a serious relationship but is going through a rough patch with his girl. He invites me over to hang out one night. We are sitting on his couch watching Arrested Development in an attempt to cheer ourselves up. And we had this bizarre "what if?" kind of moment sitting there watching TV. He didn't try to seduce me (nor I him) and nothing actually happened. Neither of us even intended for it to happen, but cecause of the circumstances it just seemed to sort of flash across our minds for a moment . Nothing did happen. We are still best friends. He is still with his girlfriend.

Now why on earth am I sharing all this? because the more I watch this scene the more I love it because I can relate to it so well. I think the more you can *relate* to characters in a film the better it is. I, for one, don't see much subtext in the book to give credence to Harry/Hermione, but I do think the situation after Ron leaves is a very different situation than anything else in the book. I think the emotions and feelings that are present in "the scene" are incredibly realistic and true. The characters are wizards who are locked in this epic good/evil struggle. Can I relate to that? No (no matter how much I may enjoy watching it). What happens between the characters I can relate to though and I love that. They deal with a lot of very recognizable emotions - love, loss, jealousy, etc. I don't know, I just really like this scene the more I watch it (and the more I listen to "O Children" on my iPod!)

Sorry for my rant and long rambling tale, I just feel like people are too caught up in specifics to realize what a rich, emotional scene it is. It is a very mature moment between two young adults and I love the fact that the actors in it can pull it off so well.

Here is a quote from David Heyman i read today that annoyed the hell out of me

-----------------------------------------------------------
"[Jo] loved, for example, the scene in this film where Harry and
Hermione dance. You know? And some fans will like it, some won't, but
actually Jo loved it, because... In a way, you know, there's a part of
you that thinks Harry and Hermione should have been together, even
though they weren't. And also, it's a scene without dialogue that
really says so much."
----------------------------------------------------------

http://www.snitchseeker.com/harry-potter-news/videos-david-heyman-talks-deathly-hallows-part-2-harry-potter-films-3d-conversion-78271/

The quote happens around 15:30 into the video.

I really wish JKR would stop humouring these people as she seems very unwilling to come out and tell people that their interpretations of a certain character or certain relationship is wrong.

Actually, no there isn't a part of me that thinks that David because I can't think of anything more dull than Harry/Hermione. Thanks for telling me how I should feel though. I gave him the benefit of actually watching the interview and I get the feeling that he might not have even read the books no matter what he might say. He's just stuck in movie producer land where the main character usually gets with the most prominent female in the story no matter what their individual characteristics are and those of other characters. I understand and like that the movies are their own unique adaptation, in a lot of ways the films have done an even better job than the books, but nowhere in the first six films did they try to suggest any Harry/Hermione relationship that went beyond friendship but he's coming out with stuff like this. Baffling.

Also a clear anti-ginger bias in the movie industry :P

...because the more I watch this scene the more I love it because I can relate to it so well. I think the more you can *relate* to characters in a film the better it is. I think the emotions and scenes that are present in this scene are incredibly realistic and true...What happens between these characters, I can relate to and that is something I really like about this film.

Sorry for my rant and long rambling tale, I just feel like people are too caught up in specifics to realize what a rich, emotional scene it is. It is a very mature scene and I love the fact that the actors in it can pull it off so well.

I try to stay away from this conversation too as I feel like I just keep repeating myself...but I always end up back in it! :D

Anyways...yeah, I've seen it 3 times also and it is a great scene. It seems so natural and real to me.

Maybe the reason that some people see only 'black and white' with this scene is because they can't relate to it. It is hard to come by friendship where you would put everything on the line for it. (even Ron had his brief moment of doubt in it) And that is why it is hard to see below the surface of this scene.

I think it is a great scene, as well as many others in the movie, and am so happy that they felt they could make a HP movie with all this nuance to it!! :clap:

Maybe they should spend less time worrying about Harry's relationship with Hermione and a bit more time trying to establish that Ron and Harry are actually friends instead of making it look like Ron just tags along. Or better yet maybe they could try and make it look like Harry and Ginny care for each other as they have done a woeful job with that relationship.

Absolute word.

Some excellent discussion of the portrayal of the friendships within the trio here, btw. :tu: I think they have done a great job with Harry and Hermione's friendship (a little too great, perhaps), and a good job with Ron and Hermione's friendship/relationship. But Harry/Ron - the original and, arguably, truest friendship - has been consistently sidelined and downplayed.

Yes, there were a couple of good original Harry/Ron scenes in DH1: the one outside the Burrow and the chat in the tent. But both of these are more Ron>Harry than Harry>Ron. They even gave Ron all of the lines about his own importance that are said by Harry in the book, i.e., the line about Dumbledore knowing he'd always want to come back, the repost to Hermione about having destroyed the Horcrux. Seriously, Harry, where is the love? IMO, Ron is still the person Harry loves and would miss most at the end of DH (although it may become Ginny in the future). He values Ron so much that he is prepared to put aside his romance with Ginny to avoid the risk of losing his friendship (again, the films have never mentioned this).

There is a lot of Hermione-centricity in this movie series, and perhaps that has something to do with the treatment of the Hermione-less Harry/Ron friendship. I think there are three main reasons for the exaggerated focus on Hermione:

1. She just so happens to be the main female character in the series, and, arguably (discussed ad nauseum in the HP feminism thread), the only female role of any real substance and significance.
2. Emma Watson is very pretty and appealing - a big box office draw. She has also been eloquent and self-assured from a young age - very good on the red carpet and in interviews. Therefore, she has been promoted and pushed above and beyond her co-stars. Moreover, I get the impression that Emma is quite a forceful personality, who would support Hermione's greater prominence/gurrrrl! power.
3. Hermione is the screenwriter's favourite character. End of.

Harry is inarguably the protagonist, and he happens to be male, so he is the leading man by default. Hermione's case is interesting. As the only girl, and one who is fairly kick-*** (to be fair), she slots nicely into the leading female/heroine role. Ron is thus "the other guy" by default, even though his importance is no less than Hermione's in the books. Harry's status within the trio is guaranteed. In movie terms, Hermione's is also due to her "only female" status and Emma Watson's considerable appeal and clout. Therefore, Ron - who is played by the mild-mannered Rupert (whom I doubt would ever complain about his role) and who apparently has no major supporters among the filmmakers - gets repeatedly shafted. The worst example of Ron's marginalisation is at the end of HBP, where Ron is inexplicably sitting apart from Harry and Hermione and has no lines, while they have the trio's conversation from the book without him. :grumble:

The extreme focus on Hermione and the marginalisation of Ron has had an unfortunate effect on the pair's romance; it has ruined the wonderful balance and parity that characterises book!Ron and Hermione's relationship. They are a bit of a lopsided duo in the films. Indeed, a non-reader night reasonably wonder what Hermione sees in Ron.

This is partly owing to the whitewashing of Hermione's character. Hermione in the books often borders on shrewish. She is a social outcast, and is a rather unappealing character on the surface. I know that I for one initially disliked her. Furthermore, and much more seriously, Hermione is something of a hypocrite: she nags others about the importance of rules, while continually showing a willingness to break them - and in outrageous fashion - when it suits her, e.g., the timeturner in POA, confunding McClaggen, etc. Hermione is a very rational character most of the time, but when she loses it, she really loses it. When Hermione is ticked-off, she becomes irrationally hysterical and even violent, sometimes comically so (her fights with Ron), but sometimes to a dangerous extent. Several of Hermione's actions over the course of the series are questionable, e.g., wiping her parents' memories, and some frightening and downright immoral, e.g., the savage and irreversible "sneak" curse in OOTP. :scared: I always thought that Hermione's grip on morality was a bit... tenuous... and that she was never properly held to account for her actions, just because she's one of the "good" guys. But, despite her increased role in the films, Hermione's flaws are never acknowledged or addressed. :no:

Originally Posted by PotterGurl08
I couldn't agree more, lol.

This scene has become a thoroughly beaten dead horse with 15 horcruxes, all of which have also been beaten.

rofl I LOVE this. :D :D :D Great quote.

Originally posted by bitsy40
I think it is a great scene, as well as many others in the movie, and am so happy that they felt they could make a HP movie with all this nuance to it!! :clap:

Absolutely. :)

Actually, no there isn't a part of me that thinks that David because I can't think of anything more dull than Harry/Hermione. Thanks for telling me how I should feel though. I gave him the benefit of actually watching the interview and I get the feeling that he might not have even read the books no matter what he might say. He's just stuck in movie producer land where the main character usually gets with the most prominent female in the story no matter what their individual characteristics are and those of other characters. I understand and like that the movies are their own unique adaptation, in a lot of ways the films have done an even better job than the books, but nowhere in the first six films did they try to suggest any Harry/Hermione relationship that went beyond friendship but he's coming out with stuff like this. Baffling.

Also a clear anti-ginger bias in the movie industry :P

Thank you. Heyman is basically saying that I am wrong for wanting Ron and Hermione and not Harry and Hermione and I think the movies absolutely show that point of view. He's basically saying, that Ron and Hermione fans don't matter.


I also do not think it is realistic in anyway for Harry and Hermione to think that they might want to be together if they really love Ginny and Ron.

I guess what it really boils down to is that I'm just tired of hearing about what a wonderful bond Harry and Hermione have and how they share something that Ron will never understand, or whatever it was that JKR said. Hermione marries Ron and yet based on that comment, it's like what she shares with him doesn't really go beyond surface level and can never compete with that she has with Harry. I just wish there were more balance to the scenes and the importance put on both relationships.

Ok, JKR said something along the lines of how Harry and Hermione shared something intense that Ron was not there to take part in. And is this not true? Camping out in the wilderness trying to avoid being captured and killed is something intense. And when there is only ONE other person with you, is it not natural that your attachment/bond to that person becomes stronger? Furthermore, to bond with someone does not require romance. Had it been Harry and Ron alone, their bond would have become stronger. If it had been Harry and Luna, their bond would have become stronger. But it was Harry and Hermione. They were already close, and for that moment, they were all each other had.
IMO, it vaguely echoes GOF, when Ron turned his back on Harry, and thus, all Harry had was Hermione. I just reread GOF and it seemed that he and Hermione became closer there too because for a while, she was all he could depend on while he faced the Triwizard Tournament. In DH, you see this same pattern emerging, but it is intensified because Hermione very literally becomes the only person Harry can depend on for a while. And in both scenarios, it is also quite obvious that Ron is missed, from both parties, despite the bond Harry and Hermione share.

As for the DH movie, it's not like Harry and Hermione were holding/cuddling with each other every night. I think the movie made it clear that for the majority of the time, Harry and Hermione felt very isolated. They sat in seperate sections of the tent. They didn't talk. It was just this one brief moment, when Harry couldn't take the isolation anymore (as I am sure would be enough to drive anyone insane), that he felt a need to lighten the moment. This isn't a crime. Nothing foul happened. It was the same relationship that we've seen between Harry and Hermione for the whole series--they remain there for each other, yet with absense of Ron, they aren't complete.

If you take this as trying to imply Harry and Hermione should have been together, then that is just your interpretation of it. It by no means has to be taken that way.

Maybe they should spend less time worrying about Harry's relationship with Hermione and a bit more time trying to establish that Ron and Harry are actually friends instead of making it look like Ron just tags along. Or better yet maybe they could try and make it look like Harry and Ginny care for each other as they have done a woeful job with that relationship.
Ron was so much more than a "tag along" in DH, in my opinion. The moment he returns, it becomes so obvious how much better Harry feels. He smiles again. He laughs again. He jokes around again. That is the effect a good friend tends to have. Ron can momentarily make Harry feel happy despite the drastic situation they are in.

I can't argue about Harry and Ginny though. The films are terrible with their relationship. The only justification I can see for this though is that they want to keep the focus solely on the trio, and Ginny, even in the books, never becomes a regular member of the gang. It's always Harry, Ron and Hermione, not Harry, Ron, Hermione and Ginny. So the films just don't seem to care for her character much.

this not true? Camping out in the wilderness trying to avoid being captured and killed is something intense. And when there is only ONE other person with you, is it not natural that your attachment/bond to that person becomes stronger? Furthermore, to bond with someone does not require romance. Had it been Harry and Ron alone, their bond would have become stronger. If it had been Harry and Luna, their bond would have become stronger. But it was Harry and Hermione. They were already close, and for that moment, they were all each other had.

She said they shared something Ron would never understand and therefore it could have gone the way of Harry and Hermione. Not once do we ever hear about the bond that Ron and Hermione have. It is all about Harry and Hermione like what she has with Ron is basically just surface level. To hear JKR say something like that is just disappointing.

I also do not think it is realistic in anyway for Harry and Hermione to think that they might want to be together if they really love Ginny and Ron.

If there is a brief "what if" moment between Harry and Hermione, it might not be unrealistic.

Hermione is worried sick about Ron, has no idea what has become of him, and in her depression has probably thought of the possibility that she may never see him again. And all of these same feelings are going on for Harry in regards to Ginny (at least in the books, not shown so greatly in the movie, lol).

So I find it realistic that both Harry and Hermione may find themselves having the fleeting thought of, " 'What if' it ends up being just the two of us from now on?

I don't think this diminishes their love for Ron and Ginny at all. It was a somber reality that they found themselves wondering about. In the event that they could not be with their loved ones, they would stick together. I think this is reflected with Hermione's "Maybe we should grow old together" comment.

The problem is that it seems to have taken until DH1 to actually show much about the Harry/Ron friendship and this is what the Harry/Hermione bond thing is about. It's not just about this film, the films since POA have pushed Ron and Harry's friendship to the sidelines. DH1 started positively on this front but I still don't think it did as good a job as it could have done. Why not have Harry say the lines about Dumbledore knowing that he'd use the deluminator to find his way back? It could have made all the difference. DH2 could rectify this but do I have much hope that this will happen? No.

In around 20 hours of film they really could have got a little more in about how close they are.

She said they shared something Ron would never understand and therefore it could have gone the way of Harry and Hermione. Not once do we ever hear about the bond that Ron and Hermione have. It is all about Harry and Hermione like what she has with Ron is basically just surface level. To hear JKR say something like that is just disappointing.


I don't agree with that interpretation (or at least I choose not to :)), and I don't take it that it suggests Ron and Hermione is surface level at all. If anything it makes it obvious that what she has with Ron is much deeper than that. I just think that she's had to respond to some pretty strange comments by the filmmakers. As I said above, guys like David Heyman don't live in our world. They don't see the same characters that we see, they see cliches and stereotypes and how they can fit them into cookie-cutter movies no matter what they're actually like.

I also think that it's an important distinction to make that Hermione doesn't say "grow old together", just "grow old". I can't really explain why I think that subtle distinction makes a difference but for me it absolutely makes a difference.

If there is a brief "what if" moment between Harry and Hermione, it might not be unrealistic.

Hermione is worried sick about Ron, has no idea what has become of him, and in her depression has probably thought of the possibility that she may never see him again. And all of these same feelings are going on for Harry in regards to Ginny (at least in the books, not shown so greatly in the movie, lol).

So I find it realistic that both Harry and Hermione may find themselves thinking have the fleeting thought of, " 'What if' it ends up being just the two of us from now on?

I don't think this diminishes their love for Ron and Ginny at all. It was a somber reality that they found themself wondering about. In the even that they could not be with their loved ones, they would stick together. I think this is reflected with Hermione's "Maybe we should grow old together" comment.


I just don't think Harry and Hermione would ever think about each other that way. I also hated that line.

The problem is that it seems to have taken until DH1 to actually show much about the Harry/Ron friendship and this is what the Harry/Hermione bond thing is about. It's not just about this film, the films since POA have pushed Ron and Harry's friendship to the sidelines. DH1 started positively on this front but I still don't think it did as good a job as it could have done. Why not have Harry say the lines about Dumbledore knowing that he'd use the deluminator to find his way back? It could have made all the difference. DH2 could rectify this but do I have much hope that this will happen? No.

In around 20 hours of film they really could have got a little more in about how close they are.

Because then Harry and Hermione wouldn't have the best relationship ever. Can't show Harry actually being closer to someone else, even though in the books Ron and Harry are much closer then H/Hr.

She said they shared something Ron would never understand and therefore it could have gone the way of Harry and Hermione. Not once do we ever hear about the bond that Ron and Hermione have. It is all about Harry and Hermione like what she has with Ron is basically just surface level. To hear JKR say something like that is just disappointing.

Well, Ron wasn't there, so I can't fault JKR for saying he wouldn't understand. He wouldn't.
I take JKR as meaning that there was a possibility. People who have gone through an experience like Harry and Hermione have do get closer--and for some, this deeper bond could lead to love. But for Harry and Hermione, it doesn't (not in the romantic sense). It could have gone that way. But it didn't.

We don't hear about the bond between Ron and Hermione because we are so frequently shown that bond as well as the development of it, throughout the books and films. :)

I just don't think Harry and Hermione would ever think about each other that way. I also hated that line.
Well, maybe you just see Harry and Hermione in black and white terms. JKR and the film producers are leaning more toward the approach of relationships/friendships aren't always in black and white. There are shades of gray and lots of relationships fall somewhere along the gray. For me, Harry and Hermione fall into very light gray, almost white--innocent and platonic, despite "what if" and "could have" moments. :lol:

Plus, the series is heavily reliant on choices. So in the end, Hermione clearly chooses Ron and Harry clearly chooses Ginny, because they picked who their hearts most strongly align with, even though Harry and Hermione "could have" settled for each other under certain circumstances.

Ok, JKR said something along the lines of how Harry and Hermione shared something intense that Ron was not there to take part in. And is this not true? Camping out in the wilderness trying to avoid being captured and killed is something intense. And when there is only ONE other person with you, is it not natural that your attachment/bond to that person becomes stronger? Furthermore, to bond with someone does not require romance. Had it been Harry and Ron alone, their bond would have become stronger. If it had been Harry and Luna, their bond would have become stronger. But it was Harry and Hermione. They were already close, and for that moment, they were all each other had.
IMO, it vaguely echoes GOF, when Ron turned his back on Harry, and thus, all Harry had was Hermione. I just reread GOF and it seemed that he and Hermione became closer there too because for a while, she was all he could depend on while he faced the Triwizard Tournament. In DH, you see this same pattern emerging, but it is intensified because Hermione very literally becomes the only person Harry can depend on for a while. And in both scenarios, it is also quite obvious that Ron is missed, from both parties, despite the bond Harry and Hermione share.

As for the DH movie, it's not like Harry and Hermione were holding/cuddling with each other every night. I think the movie made it clear that for the majority of the time, Harry and Hermione felt very isolated. They sat in seperate sections of the tent. They didn't talk. It was just this one brief moment, when Harry couldn't take the isolation anymore (as I am sure would be enough to drive anyone insane), that he felt a need to lighten the moment. This isn't a crime. Nothing foul happened. It was the same relationship that we've seen between Harry and Hermione for the whole series--they remain there for each other, yet with absense of Ron, they aren't complete.

If you take this as trying to imply Harry and Hermione should have been together, then that is just your interpretation of it. It by no means has to be taken that way.



Well said. No matter how open I was to a different interpretation in subsequent viewings of DH1, I see nothing more than close friendship between Harry & Hermione. The dance scene is sweet, goofy and brotherly on Harry's part, and both of them get a few minutes freedom from thinking about the danger they're in and feeling badly that Ron had left.

I think there's one very important point in all this analysis that is missing and that's the reason you started reading and getting sucked into the world of Harry Potter in the first place. It wasn't always about the romantic pairings and plotlines. I absolutely adore Ron and Hermione together, but it wasn't until Goblet of Fire that I truly became emotionally invested in them and wanted them together. I fell in love with this (in my opinion) very realistic portrayal of two people realizing their feelings and trying to figure out how to deal with them. I mean I absolutely loved it! The Ron and Hermione story slowly turned into a plot I cared as much about as whether Snape was good/evil and how Harry would ever defeat Voldemort. I think it's safe to say that after 20+ pages on the romantic pairings in the DH movies enough people feel the same way.

It is a huge part of the story, but it is not the entire story. When people criticize filmmakers who have done a mostly wonderful job in telling this story, accusing them of not caring about Ron/Hermione "shippers", it makes me laugh. They don't care about what relationship people like. They're simply trying to tell the story in the best way they know. I, personally, think they've done an admirable job. I don't think they have a Harry/Hermione agenda. Think of all the wonderful moments they've stuck into the films that were NOT in the book! The CoS handshake, the embarrassed handholding in PoA, the constant looks and glances, the piano scene. Could there have been more? Absolutely. Are there scenes in the book I would have liked to have seen included? Absolutely. But they are not essential to the story. I think the filmmakers have done an admirable job adapting the story.

I just would encourage people who are so up in arms about this scene, which I still see as revolving completely around Ron and his absence, to remind themselves why they fell in love with HP in the first place.

It was the trio and the story first. This scene to me is still about the trio and what their friendship - and the absence of that friendship - does to them and their dynamic.

Those arguments about what has been done to Ron's character and his relationship with Harry are definitely warranted, but I think that might be best debated in another thread as the key word in this one is "Romantic moments". I think the filmmakers put plenty of touching moments between Ron and Hermione in and from what I hear in interviews with Rupert they are "quite couple-y" in the 2nd film.

I think there's one very important point in all this analysis that is missing and that's the reason you started reading and getting sucked into the world of Harry Potter in the first place. It wasn't always about the romantic pairings and plotlines. I absolutely adore Ron and Hermione together, but it wasn't until Goblet of Fire that I truly became emotionally invested in them and wanted them together. I fell in love with this (in my opinion) very realistic portrayal of two people realizing their feelings and trying to figure out how to deal with them. I mean I absolutely loved it! The Ron and Hermione story slowly turned into a plot I cared as much about as whether Snape was good/evil and how Harry would ever defeat Voldemort. I think it's safe to say that after 20+ pages on the romantic pairings in the DH movies enough people feel the same way.

It is a huge part of the story, but it is not the entire story. When people criticize filmmakers who have done a mostly wonderful job in telling this story, accusing them of not caring about Ron/Hermione "shippers", it makes me laugh. They don't care about what relationship people like. They're simply trying to tell the story in the best way they know. I, personally, think they've done an admirable job. I don't think they have a Harry/Hermione agenda. Think of all the wonderful moments they've stuck into the films that were NOT in the book! The CoS handshake, the embarrassed handholding in PoA, the constant looks and glances, the piano scene. Could there have been more? Absolutely. Are there scenes in the book I would have liked to have seen included? Absolutely. But they are not essential to the story. I think the filmmakers have done an admirable job adapting the story.

I just would encourage people who are so up in arms about this scene, which I still see as revolving completely around Ron and his absence, to remind themselves why they fell in love with HP in the first place.

It was the trio and the story first. This scene to me is still about the trio and what their friendship - and the absence of that friendship - does to them and their dynamic.

Those arguments about what has been done to Ron's character and his relationship with Harry are definitely warranted, but I think that might be best debated in another thread as the key word in this one is "Romantic moments". I think the filmmakers put plenty of touching moments between Ron and Hermione in and from what I hear in interviews with Rupert they are "quite couple-y" in the 2nd film.


Extremely well said. I've spent the afternoon seething about that David Heyman comment but I've come to realise that it doesn't matter what he or anyone else might think or say. The films have done a terrific job on Ron/Hermione, (perhaps too much of) a good job with the Harry/Hermione friendship, and probably not enough of Ron/Harry and Harry/Ginny but at least have done something with them. Comments by anyone bar JKR mean no more than any of our comments on this forum, and sometimes even JKR's comments have to be taken with a pinch of salt becuase she's contradicted herself on occasion. What happens in the books and movies is what's important and is there for us all to see.

I think there's one very important point in all this analysis that is missing and that's the reason you started reading and getting sucked into the world of Harry Potter in the first place. It wasn't always about the romantic pairings and plotlines. I absolutely adore Ron and Hermione together, but it wasn't until Goblet of Fire that I truly became emotionally invested in them and wanted them together. I fell in love with this (in my opinion) very realistic portrayal of two people realizing their feelings and trying to figure out how to deal with them. I mean I absolutely loved it! The Ron and Hermione story slowly turned into a plot I cared as much about as whether Snape was good/evil and how Harry would ever defeat Voldemort. I think it's safe to say that after 20+ pages on the romantic pairings in the DH movies enough people feel the same way.

It is a huge part of the story, but it is not the entire story. When people criticize filmmakers who have done a mostly wonderful job in telling this story, accusing them of not caring about Ron/Hermione "shippers", it makes me laugh. They don't care about what relationship people like. They're simply trying to tell the story in the best way they know. I, personally, think they've done an admirable job. I don't think they have a Harry/Hermione agenda. Think of all the wonderful moments they've stuck into the films that were NOT in the book! The CoS handshake, the embarrassed handholding in PoA, the constant looks and glances, the piano scene. Could there have been more? Absolutely. Are there scenes in the book I would have liked to have seen included? Absolutely. But they are not essential to the story. I think the filmmakers have done an admirable job adapting the story.

I just would encourage people who are so up in arms about this scene, which I still see as revolving completely around Ron and his absence, to remind themselves why they fell in love with HP in the first place.

It was the trio and the story first. This scene to me is still about the trio and what their friendship - and the absence of that friendship - does to them and their dynamic.

Those arguments about what has been done to Ron's character and his relationship with Harry are definitely warranted, but I think that might be best debated in another thread as the key word in this one is "Romantic moments". I think the filmmakers put plenty of touching moments between Ron and Hermione in and from what I hear in interviews with Rupert they are "quite couple-y" in the 2nd film.

:tu:

I wonder if at this point, the HP series' plotline has been discussed so thoroughly that now fans have become overly invested in the romance sub-plots? It makes me think so when this thread has grown bigger than the current general DH discussion thread. :lol:

Then again, it's like a lose-lose situation. People criticized HBP for being too focused on teen romance. Yet DH1 (which I overall think was excellent, true to the book, and the best in the series) is criticized for not doing the romance properly, with a particular scene overshadowing the whole film to the point that some people seem disappointed with the whole film based on this 1-2 minute scene? I do think this is a bit drastic, lol.

Ok, JKR said something along the lines of how Harry and Hermione shared something intense that Ron was not there to take part in. And is this not true? Camping out in the wilderness trying to avoid being captured and killed is something intense. And when there is only ONE other person with you, is it not natural that your attachment/bond to that person becomes stronger? Furthermore, to bond with someone does not require romance. Had it been Harry and Ron alone, their bond would have become stronger. If it had been Harry and Luna, their bond would have become stronger. But it was Harry and Hermione. They were already close, and for that moment, they were all each other had.


As for the DH movie, it's not like Harry and Hermione were holding/cuddling with each other every night. I think the movie made it clear that for the majority of the time, Harry and Hermione felt very isolated. They sat in seperate sections of the tent. They didn't talk. It was just this one brief moment, when Harry couldn't take the isolation anymore (as I am sure would be enough to drive anyone insane), that he felt a need to lighten the moment. This isn't a crime. Nothing foul happened. It was the same relationship that we've seen between Harry and Hermione for the whole series--they remain there for each other, yet with absense of Ron, they aren't complete.



:tu: Very well said and this is exactly how I see it :)

I just hope you guys know that I'm not trying to force my opinion on you guys because that it not my goal :shrug: I just hope you guys can at least acknowledge where I'm coming from when I interpret this scene and that I simply don't see this scene as black and white as some other people do.

:tu:

I wonder if at this point, the HP series' plotline has been discussed so thoroughly that now fans have become overly invested in the romance sub-plots? It makes me think so when this thread has grown bigger than the current general DH discussion thread. :lol:

Then again, it's like a lose-lose situation. People criticized HBP for being too focused on teen romance. Yet DH1 (which I overall think was excellent, true to the book, and the best in the series) is criticized for not doing the romance properly, with a particular scene overshadowing the whole film to the point that some people seem disappointed with the whole film based on this 1-2 minute scene? I do think this is a bit drastic, lol.

:clap:

It was the trio and the story first. This scene to me is still about the trio and what their friendship - and the absence of that friendship - does to them and their dynamic.

:agree:

I just hope you guys know that I'm not trying to force my opinion on you guys because that it not my goal :shrug: I just hope you guys can at least acknowledge where I'm coming from when I interpret this scene and that I simply don't see this scene as black and white as some other people do.

:tu:

All I'm looking for is some balance. There really shouldn't be any debate about the couples at this point and the only reason there is, is because Harry and Hermione has been so heavily favored. At least IMO. I loved the Ron/Hermione scenes in this movie, but it would be nice to see more in the second movie that they have a deep bond between them that doesn't really involve Harry.

Grr, these filmmakers, I'm sick of their pro Ron/Mary Cattermole agenda! They seem obsessed with shoving it down our throats even though we're not interested and even though JKR has made it clear that Mary loves Reg and Ron loves Hermione. Ron and Mary get a kiss but Ron and Hermione don't, absolutely disgraceful, I think I'll write a letter.

:P


I'm sure that DH2 will give you what you want Erin, from the very short clips and pictures I've seen I'm confident that they've done a good job.

She said they shared something Ron would never understand and therefore it could have gone the way of Harry and Hermione. Not once do we ever hear about the bond that Ron and Hermione have. It is all about Harry and Hermione like what she has with Ron is basically just surface level. To hear JKR say something like that is just disappointing.

It does go along with my theory though that JKR didn't want to upset any of her fans and as a result she would never discount any relationship no matter how stupid just to appease every section of her fan base. She didn't do this in 2005 before the big interview when she practically called Harry/Hermione shippers "delusional". Once she got such a big backlash from the Harry/Hermione fans who didn't like their favourite pairing being dismissed like that and they didn't like being called delusional JKR seems to have made a conscious decision to appease all her fan base and not upset anyone.

No-one replied to my mega-post..... *pout*

I personally don't believe that JKR's "could've gone that way" comment was intended to appease anyone...

No-one replied to my mega-post..... *pout*

I personally don't believe that JKR's "could've gone that way" comment was intended to appease anyone...

I don't know if it was or wasn't, but it goes against everything she has said in the past about the couples.

I don't know if it was or wasn't, but it goes against everything she has said in the past about the couples.

Perhaps. But then again, in this instance, she was talking specifically about Harry and Hermione's relationship in Deathly Hallows, and the possibility that it could have gone that way at that specific point in the story..... Just as it could have gone that way between any two lonely, weary and despondent 17/18-yr-olds, who were on a soul-crushing quest and alone in the wilderness... I don't believe that this is really about the individual characters of Harry and Hermione, who are obviously not romantically compatible, at least under any normal circumstances.... Loneliness can do stange things to people. Just IMO, of course.

Perhaps. But then again, in this instance, she was talking specifically about Harry and Hermione's relationship in Deathly Hallows, and the possibility that it could have gone that way at that specific point in the story..... Just as it could have gone that way between any two lonely, weary and despondent 17/18-yr-olds, who were on a soul-crushing quest and alone in the wilderness... I don't believe that this is really about the individual characters of Harry and Hermione, who are obviously not romantically compatible, at least under any normal circumstances.... Loneliness can do stange things to people. Just IMO, of course.

She never said anything like that until the dance scene was added in the movie though. In the book nothing was ever hinted like that at all. In fact H/Hr barely even talk to each other during that time.

She never said anything like that until the dance scene was added in the movie though. In the book nothing was ever hinted like that at all. In fact H/Hr barely even talk to each other during that time.

and Harry spends a lot of his time looking at Ginny's name on the map, something that doesn't happen in the movie.

and Harry spends a lot of his time looking at Ginny's name on the map, something that doesn't happen in the movie.

Exactly. If JKR wanted a triangle, or wanted people to believe that Hermione could have ended up with Harry, then she would have written it differently, or said so in her interviews prior to this scene. Her comment comes out of nowhere.

Exactly. If JKR wanted a triangle, or wanted people to believe that Hermione could have ended up with Harry, then she would have written it differently, or said so in her interviews prior to this scene. Her comment comes out of nowhere.

I really do think the comment was made because she didn't want to upset any of her fan base. JKR doesn't like to upset any of her fan base anymore and this really shows in her interviews post 2005.

It does go along with my theory though that JKR didn't want to upset any of her fans and as a result she would never discount any relationship no matter how stupid just to appease every section of her fan base. She didn't do this in 2005 before the big interview when she practically called Harry/Hermione shippers "delusional". Once she got such a big backlash from the Harry/Hermione fans who didn't like their favourite pairing being dismissed like that and they didn't like being called delusional JKR seems to have made a conscious decision to appease all her fan base and not upset anyone.

Bold mine. God forbid someone ship something that's not something you ship. Personally, I think Harry/Hermione shippers get a lot of hate and Emerson's rude comment a while back about them being "delusional" didn't help. And JKR did not call them delusional at all. Here's the quote:

JKR: [More loudly] Well so do I! So do I!

[All laugh; Melissa doubles over, hysterical, and may have died.]

ES: Harry/Hermione shippers - delusional!

JKR: Well no, I'm not going to - Emerson, I am not going to say they're delusional! They are still valued members of my readership! I am not going to use the word delusional. I am however, going to say — now I am trusting both of you to do the spoiler thing when you write this up —

[More laughter.]

JKR: I will say, that yes, I personally feel - well it's going to be clear once people have read book six. I mean, that’s it. It’s done, isn’t it? We know. Yes, we do now know that it's Ron and Hermione. I do feel that I have dropped heavy -

[All crack up]

JKR: - hints. ANVIL-sized, actually, hints, prior to this point. I certainly think even if subtle clues hadn't been picked up by the end of “Azkaban,” that by the time we hit Krum in Goblet...



She was basically just debunking the ship and saying they would understand why once they read book 6. Harry and Hermione shippers are just as entitled to ship H/Hr as you are to R/Hr.

Then there's her quote where she said that she felt that there were a couple "charged moments" when Harry and Hermione were alone. Of course, you can continue to dismiss JKR's H/Hr quotes, but I think the fact that you refuse to take these quotes seriously shows much bias.

She never said anything like that until the dance scene was added in the movie though. In the book nothing was ever hinted like that at all. In fact H/Hr barely even talk to each other during that time.

According to JKR, apparently there were two "charged" moments in the book, which were when Harry closed his eyes at Hermione's touch when she ran her hand across his hair (comfort of physical contact, which is what I think the dance is about), and when they wrapped their arms around each other in Godric's Hallow. The film seems to have merely created variations of these moments. And for me, when JKR described these as "charged", I think I take that as emotionally charged--showing how close the two of them have gotten. I still don't think it's necessarily romantic. But of course, those emotional experiences can lead to something more, which I think was JKR's point. And since JKR pointed to moments in the book to back up her statement, I don't think she pulled the idea out of nowhere just because of the movie's added scene.

And staying true to the book, Harry and Hermione still barely talk to each other when Ron is gone. There actually is no dialogue in "the scene." In fact, I think that is another point of the scene--to help audiences realize that Harry and Hermione have even been isolated from each other for quite some time. When you see them clearly sitting silently in different sections of the tint, it conveys to the audience that this is what their days have been like since Ron left. So when Harry gets Hermione up to dance, it's easy to see he's just trying to break of the monotony of what has become their "regular" day.

If I remembering correctly, during this section of the movie, don't Harry and Hermione only talk to make plans to visit Godrics Hallow, then of course in Godrics Hallow with Bathilda and all that, and then once they return and Hermione explains that she accidently broke Harry's wand? Of course in the film, it's more difficult to convey how long they go without talking because it's not like they can't shoot scene after scene with no dialogue...But the overall lack of regular conversation is hinted at.

Bold mine. God forbid someone ship something that's not something you ship. Personally, I think Harry/Hermione shippers get a lot of hate and Emerson's rude comment a while back about them being "delusional" didn't help. And JKR did not call them delusional at all. Here's the quote:


Its been a while since i read the interview but didn't she also call the Harry/Hermione fans "militant".

JKR may not have said "delusional" in so many words but she certainly didn't come out swinging for the Harry/Hermione shippers. She basically tells them to go back and read the books again if they think Harry and Hermione getting together is a possibility.

I really do think the comment was made because she didn't want to upset any of her fan base. JKR doesn't like to upset any of her fan base anymore and this really shows in her interviews post 2005.

I believe her comment about the possibility of any Harry/Hermione romantic future was based upon the supposition of what could have happened if Ron had not come back after he left.

I believe her comment about the possibility of any Harry/Hermione romantic future was based upon the supposition of what could have happened if Ron had not come back after he left.

Except all that does it make it sound like Harry was willing to cheat on Ginny. I know Ginny and Harry were not technically together but i always got the impression that they were going to wait for each other and Harry's comment after Ginny mentioned the Veela girls seems to support this.

Had Harry ever tried anything with Hermione not only would he have been a really bad friend to Ron but he would have essentially been cheating on Ginny.

Plus we know from the books that Harry is in love with Ginny but isn't in love with Hermione so forgetting about Ginny for a while so he can hook up with Hermione (someone he isn't in love with) would only make Harry look like a pathetic excuse for a person.

Except all that does it make it sound like Harry was willing to cheat on Ginny. I know Ginny and Harry were not technically together but i always got the impression that they were going to wait for each other and Harry's comment after Ginny mentioned the Veela girls seems to support this.

Had Harry ever tried anything with Hermione not only would he have been a really bad friend to Ron but he would have essentially been cheating on Ginny.

Plus we know from the books that Harry is in love with Ginny but isn't in love with Hermione so forgetting about Ginny for a while so he can hook up with Hermione (someone he isn't in love with) would only make Harry look like a pathetic excuse for a person.

JKR's comment was hypothetical, based upon a hypothecial situation, so I don't think comparing it to book canon is helpful. I think she was just making a comment about how close of a friendship Harry & Hermione had. She made a similar comment regarding Snape & Lily, and that it could have turned into something more if Snape had not followed the DE path. I believe JKR was just trying to give us a more complex description of the characters and their feelings toward each other. Neither of those statements implies anything other than a reflection on the genuine affection (not romance) that existed/was possible between Snape and Lily, and Harry and Hermione -- in hypthetical circumstances. But as the books have Ron coming back, and Snape choosing badly, those hypotheticals could not happen.

JKR's comment was hypothetical, based upon a hypothecial situation, so I don't think comparing it to book canon is helpful. I think she was just making a comment about how close of a friendship Harry & Hermione had. She made a similar comment regarding Snape & Lily, and that it could have turned into something more if Snape had not followed the DE path. I believe JKR was just trying to give us a more complex description of the characters and their feelings toward each other. Neither of those statements implies anything other than a reflection on the genuine affection (not romance) that existed/was possible between Snape and Lily, and Harry and Hermione -- in hypthetical circumstances. But as the books have Ron coming back, and Snape choosing badly, those hypotheticals could not happen.

But to me that cheapens the relationship between Harry and Ginny and Ron and Hermione because it is basically saying that she's only with Ron because he came back. She's basically settling for him.

But to me that cheapens the relationship between Harry and Ginny and Ron and Hermione because it is basically saying that she's only with Ron because he came back. She's basically settling for him.

she is in NO way "settling " for Ron. Hermione has liked Ron since COS, and fans of he series will know that. And personally I can't worry about the non-readers; they don't hold much weight with me. So I don't care what they think because I know the little nuances that make the series

she is in NO way "settling " for Ron. Hermione has liked Ron since COS, and fans of he series will know that. And personally I can't worry about the non-readers; they don't hold much weight with me. So I don't care what they think because I know the little nuances that make the series

I know what the books have shown with Ron and Hermione, but that hasn't always translated to the movies. Since I have read the books, I know she's not settling for Ron, but when statements are made that she's not with Harry because Ron came back, that's what it sounds like to me.

I know what the books have shown with Ron and Hermione, but that hasn't always translated to the movies. Since I have read the books, I know she's not settling for Ron, but when statements are made that she's not with Harry because Ron came back, that's what it sounds like to me.

She's defending the producers. no more, no less. The movies have never really been a great representation of the books, so we just have to accept what they give us.

But to me that cheapens the relationship between Harry and Ginny and Ron and Hermione because it is basically saying that she's only with Ron because he came back. She's basically settling for him.

I don't see it that way. Again, JKR's comment was hypothetical and has nothing to do with what she wrote in the books. If circumstances had been different -- if Ron had left and not come back, don't you think that would have changed his relationship with Hermione? Because really, he left Hermione; heard her calling after him (was no longer wearing the horcrux), begging him to come back. It took Ron a lot longer to leave in the book than in the movie, he had to leave the enchantment area to disapparate. So if he had not rejoined them, it could have changed the way Hermione saw him. That is, of course, not what happened, because JKR wrote Ron's character a certain way which would make it inevitable that he would want to return. But someone asked her a question, hypothetically, and she gave an honest answer based on her considerable knowledge of her characters. But it doesn't alter anything in book canon at all.

Then there's her quote where she said that she felt that there were a couple "charged moments" when Harry and Hermione were alone. Of course, you can continue to dismiss JKR's H/Hr quotes, but I think the fact that you refuse to take these quotes seriously shows much bias.


Not to mention that I think that JKR knows a bit more about her characters than any of us. And to dismiss any of her quotes because you feel she's just trying to "appease every section of her fan base" by not discounting even the "stupid" relationships, suggests otherwise.

And I don't think this is a mistake any of us should be making.


:rolleyes:

Not to mention that I think that JKR knows a bit more about her characters than any of us. And to dismiss any of her quotes because you feel she's just trying to "appease every section of her fan base" by not discounting even the "stupid" relationships, suggests otherwise.

And I don't think this is a mistake any of us should be making.


:rolleyes:

I don't know of any really controversial quotes JKR made after her interview in 2005. It does seem like that post that interview she does actually actively try to keep all sections of her fan base happy by not ruling out any relationship pairing no matter how stupid. I'm sure if someone thought that a Snape/Crookshanks pairing was a possibility JKR wouldn't dismiss it these days.

Not to mention that I think that JKR knows a bit more about her characters than any of us. And to dismiss any of her quotes because you feel she's just trying to "appease every section of her fan base" by not discounting even the "stupid" relationships, suggests otherwise.

And I don't think this is a mistake any of us should be making.


:rolleyes:

My only issue with the quote is that she never said anything like it until the dance scene. She has always made it clear that it was R/Hr from the beginning and was actually suprised that people thought Harry and Hermione might have gotten together. It just came out of nowhere for me, as her writing does not back it up.

My only issue with the quote is that she never said anything like it until the dance scene. She has always made it clear that it was R/Hr from the beginning and was actually suprised that people thought Harry and Hermione might have gotten together. It just came out of nowhere for me, as her writing does not back it up.

She talked about H/Hr's charged moments, and what they shared that Ron could never participate in, and how it "could have gone that way" in 2008, before the dance scene ever happened.

I don't know of any really controversial quotes JKR made after her interview in 2005. It does seem like that post that interview she does actually actively try to keep all sections of her fan base happy by not ruling out any relationship pairing no matter how stupid. I'm sure if someone thought that a Snape/Crookshanks pairing was a possibility JKR wouldn't dismiss it these days.

I don't think Harry/Hermione are the same as Snape and a cat. :err: And I think JKR appreciates her fans, whether they ship R/Hr, Snape/Crookshanks or no one because she realizes that it is a matter of preference and billions of fans don't think the exact same way.

Let's discuss the film, not the author. Thanks!

Absolute word.

Some excellent discussion of the portrayal of the friendships within the trio here, btw. :tu: I think they have done a great job with Harry and Hermione's friendship (a little too great, perhaps), and a good job with Ron and Hermione's friendship/relationship. But Harry/Ron - the original and, arguably, truest friendship - has been consistently sidelined and downplayed.

Yes, there were a couple of good original Harry/Ron scenes in DH1: the one outside the Burrow and the chat in the tent. But both of these are more Ron>Harry than Harry>Ron. They even gave Ron all of the lines about his own importance that are said by Harry in the book, i.e., the line about Dumbledore knowing he'd always want to come back, the repost to Hermione about having destroyed the Horcrux. Seriously, Harry, where is the love? IMO, Ron is still the person Harry loves and would miss most at the end of DH (although it may become Ginny in the future). He values Ron so much that he is prepared to put aside his romance with Ginny to avoid the risk of losing his friendship (again, the films have never mentioned this).

There is a lot of Hermione-centricity in this movie series, and perhaps that has something to do with the treatment of the Hermione-less Harry/Ron friendship. I think there are three main reasons for the exaggerated focus on Hermione:

1. She just so happens to be the main female character in the series, and, arguably (discussed ad nauseum in the HP feminism thread), the only female role of any real substance and significance.
2. Emma Watson is very pretty and appealing - a big box office draw. She has also been eloquent and self-assured from a young age - very good on the red carpet and in interviews. Therefore, she has been promoted and pushed above and beyond her co-stars. Moreover, I get the impression that Emma is quite a forceful personality, who would support Hermione's greater prominence/gurrrrl! power.
3. Hermione is the screenwriter's favourite character. End of.

Harry is inarguably the protagonist, and he happens to be male, so he is the leading man by default. Hermione's case is interesting. As the only girl, and one who is fairly kick-*** (to be fair), she slots nicely into the leading female/heroine role. Ron is thus "the other guy" by default, even though his importance is no less than Hermione's in the books. Harry's status within the trio is guaranteed. In movie terms, Hermione's is also due to her "only female" status and Emma Watson's considerable appeal and clout. Therefore, Ron - who is played by the mild-mannered Rupert (whom I doubt would ever complain about his role) and who apparently has no major supporters among the filmmakers - gets repeatedly shafted. The worst example of Ron's marginalisation is at the end of HBP, where Ron is inexplicably sitting apart from Harry and Hermione and has no lines, while they have the trio's conversation from the book without him. :grumble:

The extreme focus on Hermione and the marginalisation of Ron has had an unfortunate effect on the pair's romance; it has ruined the wonderful balance and parity that characterises book!Ron and Hermione's relationship. They are a bit of a lopsided duo in the films. Indeed, a non-reader night reasonably wonder what Hermione sees in Ron.

This is partly owing to the whitewashing of Hermione's character. Hermione in the books often borders on shrewish. She is a social outcast, and is a rather unappealing character on the surface. I know that I for one initially disliked her. Furthermore, and much more seriously, Hermione is something of a hypocrite: she nags others about the importance of rules, while continually showing a willingness to break them - and in outrageous fashion - when it suits her, e.g., the timeturner in POA, confunding McClaggen, etc. Hermione is a very rational character most of the time, but when she loses it, she really loses it. When Hermione is ticked-off, she becomes irrationally hysterical and even violent, sometimes comically so (her fights with Ron), but sometimes to a dangerous extent. Several of Hermione's actions over the course of the series are questionable, e.g., wiping her parents' memories, and some frightening and downright immoral, e.g., the savage and irreversible "sneak" curse in OOTP. :scared: I always thought that Hermione's grip on morality was a bit... tenuous... and that she was never properly held to account for her actions, just because she's one of the "good" guys. But, despite her increased role in the films, Hermione's flaws are never acknowledged or addressed. :no:

I couldn't agree more with your analysis of the difference between movieHermione and bookHermione and why the relationship between Harry and Hermione often takes precedence over Harry and Ron's friendship and H\G in the movies. I have had quite a few ppl tell me that they can't understand why Harry and Hermione let Ron hang around after they watched the movies (especially POA thru HBP)...except the ladies seem to think its b\c they feel Ron is so "cute". :err: :lol:

Several ppl, judging by the posts here on Mugglenet in the past, think POA was the best of the movies series until DH. It may just be me but many of them seem to be young women. :lol: And I can see why they would like it. I feel POA was the worst for Hermione-centrism. Hermione's character took over the movie anytime she was on screen. And while Emma is a good actress, I don't think that fully explains it. I think it was a conscious effort by Cuaron, Kloves, Heyman and others to appeal to a female audience. And your mentioning how attractive Emma is as a "star" is true as well. But I always felt the balance of the Trio in the books and the ensemble acting in the movies were the strongest appeal of the series.

I think there is a parallel in the Star Wars series with Luke, Leia, and Han. But in that series they managed to develop Han's heroic aspect while still keeping him as comedy relief. And I thought it worked really well. In the Potter movies (and some degree the books after POA) Ron's heroic aspect that appeared in PS and COS was downplayed or deleted leaving Harry and Hermione to carry that load and also causing the trio to become a heroic duo with a sidekick. This brought Harry and Hermione's friendship to the front and left Harry's and Ron's friendship and H\G behind in the movies.

I also agree with the "whitewashing" of Hermione's character, both in the movies and the books. By DH I feel JKR had turned Hermione into the "action hero" of the series while Harry deals with the idea of facing death and Ron is yet again deep in a crisis of confidence until he defeats the Locket. I was hoping JKR would have Hermione face a "moment of truth" the way everyone else who destroyed a Horcrux appears to go through, but it didn't happen as far as I can tell. Many point to the torture at Malfoy Manor as Hermione's point, but that inficted on her without a choice. Destroying a Horcrux is an act of choice. Being tortured for information is not.

DH was a great step back to the balance I enjoyed in the early movies and the books in general. I think this was needed b\c if they were going to keep R\Hr and H\G the final pairing, they were going to have to make Ron a more appealing character than they did in GOF, OOTP, and HBP. And the acting talent of Grint would be needed to pull together the mature elements of DH (paranoia, betrayal, romance, envy, etc...) if they wanted to stay true to the book.

DH was a good movie and much closer to the spirit of the book than POA, GOF, OOTP, and HBP IMHO. The balance was closer for the characters and the actors. I always felt Grint was underutilized in the last few movies for whatever reason. But throwing in a sexually charged moment between Harry and Hermione as the "dance" just harkened back to the bad old days of POA and OOTP in my humble opinion. It seems they were more interested in developing UT between Harry and Hermione than explaining why they wouldn't give in to it b\c of Ginny and Ron.

I personally see nothing wrong with the dance scene in the tent. Harry was simply doing something to cheer up Hermione. It was nothing more than friendship. Harry was concerned for his friend and was doing his best to make her happy. However, "the scene" has to be thought over with maturity. No, Harry and Hermione would never be together. They were both in love with Weasleys. It was nothing more than the bit of Voldemort trying to get inside Ron and take him over. Voldemort was playing on Ron's weakness and fear.

I personally see nothing wrong with the dance scene in the tent. Harry was simply doing something to cheer up Hermione. It was nothing more than friendship. Harry was concerned for his friend and was doing his best to make her happy. However, "the scene" has to be thought over with maturity. No, Harry and Hermione would never be together. They were both in love with Weasleys. It was nothing more than the bit of Voldemort trying to get inside Ron and take him over. Voldemort was playing on Ron's weakness and fear.

I don't really understand the bold part of your statement. I don't think anyone who sees the scene as a romantic one is any less mature, or not thinking about the scene with maturity. The books might show that both Hermione and Harry are in love with Ron and Ginny, but the movies haven't done a great job with that IMO. It would be very nice if the same amount of effort and time were put into the actual romances of the story as they put into the Harry/Hermione relationship. I mean Ginny and Harry got their little alone intimate scene in the kitchen, but Ron and Hermione can't buy an scene without Harry or one anywhere near as intimate as the dance scene.

I mean Ginny and Harry got their little alone intimate scene in the kitchen, but Ron and Hermione can't buy an scene without Harry or one anywhere near as intimate as the dance scene.

Well, considering the books/films are from Harry's POV...


But like I said again, at least the filmmakers are giving us Hermione and Ron's kiss alone in the Chamber of Secrets.

But like I said again, at least the filmmakers are giving us Hermione and Ron's kiss alone in the Chamber of Secrets.


If that's the case then that is amazing, finally Harry can't ruin one of their moments:grumble:

I was never under the impression that the movies are really from Harry's POV like the books are. At least not to the extent the books are. They could easily balance out the couples and give Ron and Hermione some alone scenes, they just choose not to because to them Harry and Hermione is more important. I mean I'm very happy that they are alone for their kiss, but one alone scene is kind of pathetic compared to what Harry and Hermione got/get. It's like I've said already, they can't even hug without Harry having to join in.

I was never under the impression that the movies are really from Harry's POV like the books are. At least not to the extent the books are. They could easily balance out the couples and give Ron and Hermione some alone scenes, they just choose not to because to them Harry and Hermione is more important. I mean I'm very happy that they are alone for their kiss, but one alone scene is kind of pathetic compared to what Harry and Hermione got/get. It's like I've said already, they can't even hug without Harry having to join in.


Sorry, but the books are rarely from someone else's point of view.

I understand why you're mad at the supposed lack of touching Ron and Hermione scenes, but this scene that has been beaten to death. And I agree there should've been an equally touching Ron and Hermione scene since it would (hopefully) put this scene to rest.

As a fan, all I can do to assuage people's hate for this scene is to try and argue that it's not romantic. And that Ron and Hermione will get their moment.

Sorry, but the books are rarely from someone else's point of view.

I understand why you're mad at the supposed lack of touching Ron and Hermione scenes, but this scene that has been beaten to death.

As a fan, all I can do to assuage people's hate for this scene is to try and argue that it's not romantic. And that Ron and Hermione will get their moment.

I was referring to the movies not being from Harry's POV like the books are. I'm well aware that the books are from his POV, but the movies are not exclusively.

And yeah, they'll get their one moment. I guess expecting more then one is just asking for too much. It's my fault for having to high expectations. It's time to just let it go I guess.

I was referring to the movies not being from Harry's POV like the books are. I'm well aware that the books are from his POV, but the movies are not exclusively.

And yeah, they'll get their one moment. I guess expecting more then one is just asking for too much. It's my fault for having to high expectations. It's time to just let it go I guess.

Yes, the movies are not exclusively from Harry's POV - sorry, I thought you were referring to the books :p

Yes, the movies are not exclusively from Harry's POV - sorry, I thought you were referring to the books :p

Not a problem.:)

Ron and Hermione get plenty of scenes, imo. Their relationship has been hinted at since COS. There were heavy hints throughout GOF, OOTP, and HPB. By DH1, I think the Ron/Hermione thing is quite obvious. In DH2, it will be official.
Harry and Ginny, on the other hand...I think that is the relationship that complaints need to be directed at.

If some fans feel there needs to be even more Ron/Hermione scenes, fine. I won't fault that opinion. But whatever is perceived to be lacking between Ron and Hermione in the series is not the sole fault of this one single scene in DH. I think this dance scene has become a scape-goat for Ron/Hermione shippers who are unsatisfied with the general portrayal of their relationship in the films. Personally, I think the frustration is taking away from some of the main points of the scene-- that Harry and Hermione care for each other, but they can't pretend everything is ok when Ron isn't there.

Anyway, in DH, I think they did fine with Ron/Hermione. It was enough. I don't see anything lacking from their relationship in this film. I guess it's because I'm happy that the film chose to focus more on major plot-points/scenes that are important in DH rather than romance sub-plots. Granted, it bothers me when Harry watched Snape on the Marauder's Map, an extra second couldn't be spared to show Ginny. But, the 7 Potters, Godric's Hallow, the Malfoy Manner, the Tale of the 3 brothers, and on and on, were so fantastic and true to the book that I don't feel the need to constantly compain about what lacked in the secondary love plots.

Hm. I saw it again today, and I didn't get that Harry was trying to seduce Hermione at all. She was sad and depressed, missing Ron, and Harry knew that. All he wanted to do was cheer her up, and when the dance tune came on, that's all he intended. I think it was obvious in the body language and the fun they had with the dance.

Even at the end of the dance, close dancing, it was more a brother and sister dancing, or two good platonic friends dancing -- I felt nothing sexual or romantic there at all. Just two young people who love each other as friends taking comfort in a simple human gesture of closeness. At the end of the dance, you can see that, while Harry did manage to lift Hermione's spirits for a few minutes, as soon as it's over she is missing Ron again. There's no eye contact or a "moment in time" where a kiss would follow.

It's perfectly innocent.

Ron and Hermione get plenty of scenes, imo. Their relationship has been hinted at since COS. There were heavy hints throughout GOF, OOTP, and HPB. By DH1, I think the Ron/Hermione thing is quite obvious. In DH2, it will be official.
Harry and Ginny, on the other hand...I think that is the relationship that complaints need to be directed at.

If some fans feel there needs to be even more Ron/Hermione scenes, fine. I won't fault that opinion. But whatever is perceived to be lacking between Ron and Hermione in the series is not the sole fault of this one single scene in DH. I think this dance scene has become a scape-goat for Ron/Hermione shippers who are unsatisfied with the general portrayal of their relationship in the films. Personally, I think the frustration is taking away from some of the main points of the scene-- that Harry and Hermione care for each other, but they can't pretend everything is ok when Ron isn't there.

Anyway, in DH, I think they did fine with Ron/Hermione. It was enough. I don't see anything lacking from their relationship in this film. I guess it's because I'm happy that the film chose to focus more on major plot-points/scenes that are important in DH rather than romance sub-plots. Granted, it bothers me when Harry watched Snape on the Marauder's Map, an extra second couldn't be spared to show Ginny. But, the 7 Potters, Godric's Hallow, the Malfoy Manner, the Tale of the 3 brothers, and on and on, were so fantastic and true to the book that I don't feel the need to constantly compain about what lacked in the secondary love plots.

I didn't say they necessarily needed more scenes, but that they needed scenes that showed the depth of their bond more. Even once scene alone, that goes beyond the surface level flirting would have accomplished that. I just don't think it is good enough to go from DH1, have them hold hands in DH2 a few times and then kiss. There is nothing to deep about that, and really doesn't even compare to the amount of time they have put into the H/Hr relationship. Of course, hopefully I am wrong about part 2 and they will show more of just how bonded R/Hr are. I don't really know what else to say, or how else to put it, so I'm just going to move on now.

I didn't say they necessarily needed more scenes, but that they needed scenes that showed the depth of their bond more. Even once scene alone, that goes beyond the surface level flirting would have accomplished that. I just don't think it is good enough to go from DH1, have them hold hands in DH2 a few times and then kiss. There is nothing to deep about that, and really doesn't even compare to the amount of time they have put into the H/Hr relationship. Of course, hopefully I am wrong about part 2 and they will show more of just how bonded R/Hr are. I don't really know what else to say, or how else to put it, so I'm just going to move on now.

I think part 1 was filled with r/hr moments. not to mention the build up of the relationship since the second film. as much as I love their romance, and wish there could be more moments between them, this is Harry Potterand the...... We have to remember we are supposed to be watching harry go through his adventures, a secondary romance is not all that major in the scheme of things

I think part 1 was filled with r/hr moments. not to mention the build up of the relationship since the second film. as much as I love their romance, and wish there could be more moments between them, this is Harry Potterand the...... We have to remember we are supposed to be watching harry go through his adventures, a secondary romance is not all that major in the scheme of things

What I'm trying to say must not be coming across here because more scenes is not what I'm talking about. I think its best to agree to disagree at this point.

What I'm trying to say must not be coming across here because more scenes is not what I'm talking about. I think its best to agree to disagree at this point.

I understand what you're saying Erin. :) While I think the R/Hr relationship has been handled fairly well in the films so far, there has definitely been a bias towards showing more moments of close bonding between Harry and Hermione, often at the expense of Ron's character, the R/Hr relationship and the bond between the trio in general.

This trend became most evident in PoA and has continued in each of the subsequent films, though Ron's character was greatly improved in DH1, imo.

Even if all the H/Hr moments are assumed to be platonic (which I believe they are, save for a bit of 'sexual tension' during the tent dance), it often seems like the film makers have gone out of their way to include as many canon and non canon H/Hr moments as possible.

The result is that Harry and Hermione often appear to be a duo with a tag along name Ron. And this is so unfortunate, because in the books Ron is the heart of the trio and is often the glue that keeps them together. This quality/charateristic is almost completely lost in the films.

While I've completely given up hope for H/G in these films, I think we will finally see some deeper bonding moments for R/Hr in DH2. Will it been enough? Probably not. But in terms of how the R/Hr relationship needs to fit into the films as a whole, it will probably suffice well enough.

I'm not sure if this is the best place for this, but since the line alludes to the romantic pairings and Ron's insecurities and fears about a Harry/Hermione coupling I thought this was the best place for it.

I posted this in my initial review right after seeing the midnight show and was surprised nobody else seemed to mind it. It's really something minor, but when Ron said the line my heart just fell. I had been looking forward to hearing the book line so much because I think it was so powerful. It was one of those lines on my first reading of DH that just stuck with me through the whole book.

"I get it. You choose him."

Why, oh why, did they change this?? They kept so much of the original script I really did not understand this change. Making the line, "I get it. I saw you two the other night" made the movie like some cheezy teenage soap opera. And when Hermione responds with "That's nothing!" I cringed. Now this is not a knock on how the actors delivered the lines because they were still both phenomenal, but did anyone else HATE this change??

I know it is really a minor point, but coming from someone who loves the character of Ron Weasley I thought it did him a tremendous injustice. One of the main reasons I love Ron is because I love his insecurities, which to me make him much more easy to relate to than the other two (and goodness knows I've already explained in here that I love relating to the characters). His ability to triumph in spite of those fears is what makes him great, in my eyes. When I read the line in the book, "I get it. You choose him" my heart just broke for the guy! As has been stated, the books are told from Harry's POV. You never get a chance to get inside Ron's head. So when he utters that line it just drops on you like a ton of bricks. "I get it. You choose him" makes it very apparent that Ron's fears about a possible romance between Harry and Hermione was a very long-standing fear of his not something brought on by the recent camping adventures.

Additionally, I think having Ron reference one particular instance (that correct me if I'm wrong was weeks before that conversation) does not even flow with all the other camping scenes we have just watched. It's not just 'the other night', it's been little things building up the entire time.

I think the line was an incredibly important line to Ron's character that also explains a lot about his relationship with Hermione over the years. For the life of me, I can't understand why they decided to change it. All I can guess is they thought the horcrux scene would make it obvious, but I still don't like it.

Did this bother anyone else at all? Or am I the only person who is that nitpicky about changing a line? To me it is not just the line, but the implications behind it and how it fit with the other scenes.

When Jo Rowling talked about “those charged moments” between Harry and Hermione she was mentioning a conversation she had had with Steve Kloves. I’m sure he was already working on the DH screenplay and I think that’s what he was trying to show with the dance scene. In my opinion, he was trying to represent those special moments Harry and Hermione shared when they were all alone. As a book reader I liked this scene between Harry and Hermione and I understood it as Harry and Hermione trying to find happiness after Ron’s departure but failing. It’s a good scene that shows how important Ron is for both Hermione and Harry.

But after talking with a friend of mine who has only seen the films I realized the scene doesn’t really stand on its own for non-readers and I think that’s because the films haven’t really succeeded in showing what the characters are going through emotionally. When I’m watching the films, I fill in a lot of gaps with my book knowledge and I tend to forget that someone who has only seen the films can’t really go that deep into the characters’ psychologies.

I'm not sure if this is the best place for this, but since the line alludes to the romantic pairings and Ron's insecurities and fears about a Harry/Hermione coupling I thought this was the best place for it.

I posted this in my initial review right after seeing the midnight show and was surprised nobody else seemed to mind it. It's really something minor, but when Ron said the line my heart just fell. I had been looking forward to hearing the book line so much because I think it was so powerful. It was one of those lines on my first reading of DH that just stuck with me through the whole book.

"I get it. You choose him."

Why, oh why, did they change this?? They kept so much of the original script I really did not understand this change. Making the line, "I get it. I saw you two the other night" made the movie like some cheezy teenage soap opera. And when Hermione responds with "That's nothing!" I cringed. Now this is not a knock on how the actors delivered the lines because they were still both phenomenal, but did anyone else HATE this change??

I agree and unfortunately when I first saw the film the audience laughed when Ron said that. Which shows the line was weird because everyone was really quiet throughout the whole fight scene. I think Ron saying “I saw you two the other night” makes his character appear as just jealous (helped by the locket) of Harry and Hermione’s closeness while his line in the book “You choose him” was about showing how he didn’t think he deserved Hermione or that she could find him interesting. But I think the emotions the characters go through in the books are very different than what they experience in the films. In my opinion, Ron’s leaving in DH1 was more about his losing faith in Harry and Dumbledore and about his jealousy. The Horcrux destruction scene showed Ron had other insecurities but I feel before he left it was mainly about his jealousy and his anger towards Harry.

I personally see nothing wrong with the dance scene in the tent. Harry was simply doing something to cheer up Hermione. It was nothing more than friendship. Harry was concerned for his friend and was doing his best to make her happy. However, "the scene" has to be thought over with maturity. No, Harry and Hermione would never be together. They were both in love with Weasleys. It was nothing more than the bit of Voldemort trying to get inside Ron and take him over. Voldemort was playing on Ron's weakness and fear.

Doesn’t “that scene” refer to the dance scene and not the locket destruction scene?

This trend became most evident in PoA and has continued in each of the subsequent films, though Ron's character was greatly improved in DH1, imo.

I agree, the characterisation of Ron was a lot more accurate in this one. Even if there were still some moments where I had to ask -why is Ron being excluded from the scene? None as bad as the final scene from HBP, though, IMO.

The result is that Harry and Hermione often appear to be a duo with a tag along name Ron. And this is so unfortunate, because in the books Ron is the heart of the trio and is often the glue that keeps them together. This quality/charateristic is almost completely lost in the films.

This is something that bothers me immensely about the films. Personally, I consider it botched characterisation. And it's a large part of the reason why I'll only go to see the films once, and I don't own any of the DVDs. I love the Trio in the books. It's not really portrayed as a Trio in the films, IMO. I think DH did a slightly better job on this score than others, and I was pleasantly surprised that Ron was given the scene where he persuades Harry not to run away from the Burrow.

"I get it. You choose him."

Why, oh why, did they change this?? They kept so much of the original script I really did not understand this change. Making the line, "I get it. I saw you two the other night" made the movie like some cheezy teenage soap opera. And when Hermione responds with "That's nothing!" I cringed. Now this is not a knock on how the actors delivered the lines because they were still both phenomenal, but did anyone else HATE this change??

Did this bother anyone else at all? Or am I the only person who is that nitpicky about changing a line? To me it is not just the line, but the implications behind it and how it fit with the other scenes.

I thought Hermione's: "That? Ron - that was nothing".

I thought that had worse implications as if they actually did something :shrug:

I agree and unfortunately when I first saw the film the audience laughed when Ron said that. Which shows the line was weird because everyone was really quiet throughout the whole fight scene. I think Ron saying “I saw you two the other night” makes his character appear as just jealous (helped by the locket) of Harry and Hermione’s closeness while his line in the book “You choose him” was about showing how he didn’t think he deserved Hermione or that she could find him interesting. But I think the emotions the characters go through in the books are very different than what they experience in the films. In my opinion, Ron’s leaving in DH1 was more about his losing faith in Harry and Dumbledore and about his jealousy. The Horcrux destruction scene showed Ron had other insecurities but I feel before he left it was mainly about his jealousy and his anger towards Harry.


My audience laughed too! The line makes Ron look very petty and simply jealous of Harry and Hermione's closeness as opposed to his own insecurities, as you said showing that he doesn't think he deserves Hermione. I know I need to separate the books from the movies. I just was looking forward to that line packing as much of a punch in the movies as it did when I read it in the books. Instead, the audience laughs and Ron looks a bit pathetic.

I thought Hermione's: "That? Ron - that was nothing".

I thought that had worse implications as if they actually did something :shrug:

Me too!

:: walks away from THAT scene... ::


"I get it. You choose him."

Why, oh why, did they change this?? They kept so much of the original script I really did not understand this change. Making the line, "I get it. I saw you two the other night" made the movie like some cheezy teenage soap opera. And when Hermione responds with "That's nothing!" I cringed. Now this is not a knock on how the actors delivered the lines because they were still both phenomenal, but did anyone else HATE this change??


I HATED that they changed that line. It's such a simple thing to have kept in the movie as written in the book. There was absolutely no need to change that line to, "I saw you two the other night."

Saw them what exactly? Walking towards the tent?!

I get that the locket made Ron unreasonable and out of sorts, and it wouldn't be unreasonable that it would make him jump to the wrong conclusions, but that line change was so pointless and ridiculous that it almost convinced me that Kloves has aboslutely no clue what was supposed to be going on in Ron's head.

His issues with jealousy and inferiority all revolve around choice. His mother choosing to love Ginny more because he'd been the boy she didn't want, that had forced he to try again. Hermione choosing Harry over him because he's just not as great as Harry.

That line was supposed to have been ripped out of him. It was supposed to be heartbreaking. Rupert played it fantastically anyway with almost not being unable to look at Hermione as he asked her if she was staying, but it would have been so much more powerful if all of his anger and resentment and pain would have come out in that one line in the book.

:: shakes fist at Kloves ::

AND it would have paralleled neatly with the other mentions of choice in the film; Hermione removing Harry's glasses from Ron's face, Hermione choosing to sit by the radio instead of dancing with Harry, the violent Horcrux imagery with faux Hermione taunting Ron. It would have been glorious!

Also, 'cause I just thought this to make a point, JKR herself is all about the choices of the characters defining who they are in the books.

Choice, choice, choice.

It's everywhere in the books and in this film and Kloves chose just right then to take it out. Yessh!

Interesting. The "You choose him" line being changed.
I had not quite thought about the implications of it. In my theater, nobody laughed.

I still haven't seen it but once, so someone refresh my memory...Ron says, "I saw you two the other night" after the haircut scene and the part where Harry and Hermoine are all excited talking about Godric's sword?

See, when Ron made that comment, I didn't take it as the "caught" Harry and Hermione in some incriminating romatic moment. It felt more like he was talking about how they kept talking and making plans on what to do without him, making him feel like he wasn't needed. That's the impression that I got.
Of course, now that several of you point it out, I can see how Ron's comment can be seen as him pointing out something incriminating, as if Harry and Hermione had secretly had some moments together or something. But from what is shown in the film prior to that scene, I felt it made it seem like Ron was referring to them not needing him, not that he had caught them in some way.
But yes, I can see how the wording is odd. Maybe Kloves felt Ron's phrasing made things more dramatic or something. I do agree though, that "You choose him" would have been more impactful, and would have more effectively gotten across what Ron was feeling.

The scene most discussed and still no resolution. I don't think even the filmmakers would have predicted such fierce arguments would take place.
We can all agree that there would be no consensus on this scene. Some will see it as just a friendly cheer up moment between H/Hr, others will see sexual implications. Like it on dislike it, the point is Hermione chose Ron and is a set up for Part II, and to show the public that it will never be anything more than friendship between Harry and Hermione. This dance scene doesn't diminish Harry's love interest for Ginny, because to be realistic, their relationship portrayals in the films seem doom from the start. If the filmmakers want to make us believe that Harry and Ginny are meant for each other, they have a lot of work to do in Part II.

The scene most discussed and still no resolution. I don't think even the filmmakers would have predicted such fierce arguments would take place.
We can all agree that there would be no consensus on this scene. Some will see it as just a friendly cheer up moment between H/Hr, others will see sexual implications. Like it on dislike it, the point is Hermione chose Ron and is a set up for Part II, and to show the public that it will never be anything more than friendship between Harry and Hermione. This dance scene doesn't diminish Harry's love interest for Ginny, because to be realistic, their relationship portrayals in the films seem doom from the start. If the filmmakers want to make us believe that Harry and Ginny are meant for each other, they have a lot of work to do in Part II.

That is so true, and I don't even think there is time for that really. They've really messed up that relationship. At this point I think it is just going to come off as them randomly ending up together. Which in a way kind of happened in the book, IMO, but JKR did Harry/Ginny more justice then the filmmakers have.

I was referring to the movies not being from Harry's POV like the books are. I'm well aware that the books are from his POV, but the movies are not exclusively.

And yeah, they'll get their one moment. I guess expecting more then one is just asking for too much. It's my fault for having to high expectations. It's time to just let it go I guess.

Just thought I would chime in, a bit late, with a note to say that on an interview I'm watching at the moment Kloves mentions that from GoF onwards they made a conscious decision to film the movies from Harry's pov. Which, I suppose has indeed meant that particular moments between Ron and Hermione have necessarily been cut. Though in some ways I think this merely reflects the books, even though the movies have been known to branch out beyond his pov to show certain scenes, from memory this has mainly been in similar instances to the books (correct me if I'm wrong!). Ron and Hermione's relationship in the books was always seen from Harry's pov and in that sense there was that "undefined" aspect to it, where we did mainly get brief moments of their relationship. I think the 'deeper' aspect of their relationship has really been a result of the extra cuts to subplots e.g. SPEW. As much as it would be nice to see extra moments, I can understand it.

Also Heyman and the comments about Harry/Hermione being the correct relationship. Tisk tisk. The guy clearly has no idea. He's so warped by Hollywood expectations he can't see the archtypes for the sidekick love affair. Has the man not seen Star Wars? :grumble:

Also Heyman and the comments about Harry/Hermione being the correct relationship. Tisk tisk. The guy clearly has no idea. He's so warped by Hollywood expectations he can't see the archtypes for the sidekick love affair. Has the man not seen Star Wars? :grumble:

I'm sorry, I may have missed something here, but when was this comment made? Do you have a link at all? It really amazes me how wrong they have got some things in the movie, it really shows how little they understand the subplots and how intricate the story is.

I'm sorry, I may have missed something here, but when was this comment made? Do you have a link at all? It really amazes me how wrong they have got some things in the movie, it really shows how little they understand the subplots and how intricate the story is.

-----------------------------------------------------------
"[Jo] loved, for example, the scene in this film where Harry and
Hermione dance. You know? And some fans will like it, some won't, but
actually Jo loved it, because... In a way, you know, there's a part of
you that thinks Harry and Hermione should have been together, even
though they weren't. And also, it's a scene without dialogue that
really says so much."
----------------------------------------------------------

http://www.snitchseeker.com/harry-potter-news/videos-david-heyman-talks-deathly-hallows-part-2-harry-potter-films-3d-conversion-78271/

The quote happens around 15:30 into the video.

-----------------------------------------------------------
"[Jo] loved, for example, the scene in this film where Harry and
Hermione dance. You know? And some fans will like it, some won't, but
actually Jo loved it, because... In a way, you know, there's a part of
you that thinks Harry and Hermione should have been together, even
though they weren't. And also, it's a scene without dialogue that
really says so much."
----------------------------------------------------------

http://www.snitchseeker.com/harry-potter-news/videos-david-heyman-talks-deathly-hallows-part-2-harry-potter-films-3d-conversion-78271/

The quote happens around 15:30 into the video.


I really hope he was using 'you' in the singular. That being said, R/Hr is canon, doesn't matter what he thinks should've happened, just glad he's not actually the director or screenwriter otherwise it could've been so much worse...

Let's word your critiques constructive, please, but don't use this platform for insulting rants - for particular when you just don't agree with the decisions of a real life person. Thank you! :)

Does anybody agree with me on the following ...anybody?!... in that I like the scenes between Harry and Hermione because I like seeing a male and female friend being that close without an ulterior motive?!

That doesn't mean I don't believe in Ron/Hermione. I absolutely do. I'm not a shipper, because I care about other characters more, but for what it counts I see Ron marrying Hermione, like it says in the books.

But I don't see why, just because they don't love each other in a coupley way, Harry and Hermione can't cuddle or dance?!

I think when people interpret these scenes as purely romantic, in a way that means they're discrediting the strength and importance of friendships, because they're sort of saying you can only be that close if you're a couple. o___o

Does anybody agree with me on the following ...anybody?!... in that I like the scenes between Harry and Hermione because I like seeing a male and female friend being that close without an ulterior motive?!



Now this is the reason I love their relationship so much in the books, but the problem is in all the interviews I've seen about the dance or the Horcrux kiss people seem to be implying that there is an ulterior motive. And I think that is my problem, the interviews with the crew or cast are what's giving me this opinion rather than the moment itself :lol: In the case of the dance I was sligthly uncomfortable during the removal of the locket but the dance itself I was fine with, and it was a nice friendship moment. And like I said, in the books I see Harry and Hermione's friendship as proof that a girl and a boy can be friends without "fancying" each other, but I just feel that in DH they may be trying to imply there is something there. I'm hoping for a second viewing this weekend, I'm looking forward to seeing this moment again to see if it's how I remember it and how I feel about it second time round :)

If what people say in interviews bothered me so much (I don't really read interviews but I kinda see what you mean) then I'd do what most people do when a fan gives a view on something that they disagree with ...ignore it. XD

I mean, every other post in every other discussion on forums like this one is made up of "You can't say that for sure because JKR hasn't said so." I usually disagree with that, but if the word of a fan doesn't make something true, then neither does the word of an actor or director or producer or whoever it was that insinuated at Harry/Hermione. ^^

On my second viewing, I found that dancing scene to be very cute. I had read on here that somebody thought it was too "Dan" rather than "Harry" - basically meaning the actor falling out of character - but although I was looking for that I didn't think so. And I really didn't find it romantic, more like... awkward and giggly and "What are we doing?" It's got the sort of wartime desperation to it that you also find in WWII stories, like "The world is blowing up around us and we're dancing? But what better time do dance?"

It actually made me think of the scene in "The English Patient" when Hana, Kip and Caravaggio are dancing.

Does anybody agree with me on the following ...anybody?!... in that I like the scenes between Harry and Hermione because I like seeing a male and female friend being that close without an ulterior motive?!

That doesn't mean I don't believe in Ron/Hermione. I absolutely do. I'm not a shipper, because I care about other characters more, but for what it counts I see Ron marrying Hermione, like it says in the books.

But I don't see why, just because they don't love each other in a coupley way, Harry and Hermione can't cuddle or dance?!

I think when people interpret these scenes as purely romantic, in a way that means they're discrediting the strength and importance of friendships, because they're sort of saying you can only be that close if you're a couple. o___o

Well I really liked the dance scene. Personally, I don’t think book-Harry is the type of person to cuddle or dance with his friends be it either Hermione or Ron but film-Harry is different and considering how he’s represented in the films the dance scene works. In my opinion, the only problem is the filmmakers have failed to include other emotional scenes showing how close Ron and Hermione and, especially, Harry and Ron are. So I understand why some casual viewers might feel like Harry and Hermione are much closer than Harry and Ron. Basically, I liked seeing how close Harry and Hermione were but I really wanted to see a bonding scene between Ron and Harry and I feel like I didn’t get that, compared to the book.

I really wanted to see a bonding scene between Ron and Harry and I feel like I didn’t get that, compared to the book.

Yeah, I agree with that! There are so many fights between Ron and Harry, and I get that boys from around 14 up have trouble sharing emotions when they're not alone, but because the first two films were so Disneyish and unemotional, and by the third film Dan and Rupert were already over 14, I guess the filmmakers missed out on the opportunity to show Harry and Ron as really close childhood friends rather than having a "stock" friendship, so we only ever see them either squabbling, or sorting stuff out together, but never really being close just the two of them.

Yeah, I agree with that! There are so many fights between Ron and Harry, and I get that boys from around 14 up have trouble sharing emotions when they're not alone, but because the first two films were so Disneyish and unemotional, and by the third film Dan and Rupert were already over 14, I guess the filmmakers missed out on the opportunity to show Harry and Ron as really close childhood friends rather than having a "stock" friendship, so we only ever see them either squabbling, or sorting stuff out together, but never really being close just the two of them.

I'll just talk about what they could have done in DH1 and not the other films. I liked their hugs at the beginning of the film but I feel like a hug between Harry and Ron right after the Horcrux was destroyed would have meant more for their friendship. I would also have appreciated their scene in the tent a bit more if Harry had said he had missed Ron or that Dumbledore knew he'd always want to come back. They also could have had Ron say he was sorry for leaving them.

Interesting. The "You choose him" line being changed.
I had not quite thought about the implications of it. In my theater, nobody laughed.

I still haven't seen it but once, so someone refresh my memory...Ron says, "I saw you two the other night" after the haircut scene and the part where Harry and Hermoine are all excited talking about Godric's sword?

I don’t think he was talking about the haircut since that happened only a few minutes prior in the film. I don’t really know what was meant by “I saw you two the other night”. The only scene I can think of is the scene after Hermione is almost caught by Scabior and she and Harry are walking back to the tent. Maybe it was a reference to a scene that was cut. I think my audience laughed because from what we had been shown Ron’s line seemed like petty jealousy. We weren’t shown anything that should have made him worried and he specifically references “the other night” and not just the general situation they are in. Hermione’s response seems weird as well, “That was nothing”. Does she know what Ron is talking about or is she just trying to reassure him?

I found it strange that they changed the line but I didn't particularly dislike it. No one in the audience laughed at it either. I also thought Hermione's response was fine. She says "that's nothing" which I think was her just saying that there's nothing like that between her and Harry, and she's shocked that he would even think that.

I loved the dance scene because it works dramatically. When two people are isolated for a long time, they will begin to be attracted to each other, and the scene really showed the erotic temptation that was going on, but in the end Hermione didn't act on impulses which is what matters. I also loved the way that Radcliffe acted the scene; you could really sense that Harry wanted it to go further.
It has nothing to do with Harry betraying Ron, it's human nature, and Ron had already betrayed them both. And who's to say he was ever coming back?

And it wasn't as if Hermione didn't want it too. Remember she implies they should just stay hidden and grow old (together).

I found it strange that they changed the line but I didn't particularly dislike it. No one in the audience laughed at it either. I also thought Hermione's response was fine. She says "that's nothing" which I think was her just saying that there's nothing like that between her and Harry, and she's shocked that he would even think that.

What exactly is this referring to? I'm not really sure I understand.

Honestly, if I hadn't the books, I'd probably think Harry was looking for an affair... Not really sure why they'd go in that direction, especially since as people have mentioned the ambiguity could easily have been rectified with a simple platonic confirming line.

And all this does is make Harry and Ginny's relationship even weaker.

And all this does is make Harry and Ginny's relationship even weaker.

Well, the movies haven't established that Harry and Ginny have a strong relationship, so it's irrelevant. But it'll come. Just wait until July.

-----------------------------------------------------------
"[Jo] loved, for example, the scene in this film where Harry and
Hermione dance. You know? And some fans will like it, some won't, but
actually Jo loved it, because... In a way, you know, there's a part of
you that thinks Harry and Hermione should have been together, even
though they weren't. And also, it's a scene without dialogue that
really says so much."
----------------------------------------------------------

http://www.snitchseeker.com/harry-potter-news/videos-david-heyman-talks-deathly-hallows-part-2-harry-potter-films-3d-conversion-78271/

The quote happens around 15:30 into the video.

I really hope he was using 'you' in the singular. That being said, R/Hr is canon, doesn't matter what he thinks should've happened, just glad he's not actually the director or screenwriter otherwise it could've been so much worse...

To me this is not him saying that he wants it to be H/H. I think he is saying that yes, we know it is R/H and that is wonderful. But you could still have that part of you that says, what would it be like IF it were not R/H and it was H/H? THis to me is not him advocating for them, but simply acknowledging that the possibility did exist (however small that possibility was).

To me this is not him saying that he wants it to be H/H. I think he is saying that yes, we know it is R/H and that is wonderful. But you could still have that part of you that says, what would it be like IF it were not R/H and it was H/H? THis to me is not him advocating for them, but simply acknowledging that the possibility did exist (however small that possibility was).

Precisely.

Real relationships are hardly so cut and dried so as to nullify all possibilities of any relationship outside of the most probably one. I like that they acknowledge this and I like that the dance scene touches on this, however briefly.

It's an accurate portrayal of people (good or bad, it's how we are) and it adds depth to these fictional characters.

I loved the dance scene because it works dramatically. When two people are isolated for a long time, they will begin to be attracted to each other

The dance happened while they were camping on the rocks and that was the first place Harry and Hermione disapparated to after Ron left. If I’m not mistaken, it couldn’t have been more than a couple of days.

And it wasn't as if Hermione didn't want it too. Remember she implies they should just stay hidden and grow old (together).

Considering what they’ve just been through (Godric’s Hollow) and that they’ve got no idea what to do next I think Hermione was just implying they should give up on their mission and not that she wants to spend the rest of her life romantically involved with Harry.

I found it strange that they changed the line but I didn't particularly dislike it. No one in the audience laughed at it either. I also thought Hermione's response was fine. She says "that's nothing" which I think was her just saying that there's nothing like that between her and Harry, and she's shocked that he would even think that.

I don’t really mind them changing the line but the way they changed it. Ron mentions a specific moment (the other night), so it seems like they wanted to make a reference to a specific scene but I feel like you don’t know what he’s talking about.

To me this is not him saying that he wants it to be H/H. I think he is saying that yes, we know it is R/H and that is wonderful. But you could still have that part of you that says, what would it be like IF it were not R/H and it was H/H? THis to me is not him advocating for them, but simply acknowledging that the possibility did exist (however small that possibility was).


totally agree. he was implying a possibility, but certainly not wishing it were so.

Now as for H/H vs R/H, the problem with this film was that there were WAY more H/H moments. I mean... Where were the R/H moments. What were they?

Precisely.

Real relationships are hardly so cut and dried so as to nullify all possibilities of any relationship outside of the most probably one. I like that they acknowledge this and I like that the dance scene touches on this, however briefly.

It's an accurate portrayal of people (good or bad, it's how we are) and it adds depth to these fictional characters.

Yep, I wouldn't like this portrayed as a fairytale.

Now as for H/H vs R/H, the problem with this film was that there were WAY more H/H moments. I mean... Where were the R/H moments. What were they?

Hermione running to Ron at the Burrow (taking off the glasses), cafe cheek touch, Grimmauld place, splinching (yes, I count that), camping scene where is Harry is off by himself, all of Malfoy Manor and that continues to the end. I could have missed some, and these may seem small, but they are intimate moments IMO and since this is a movie about Harry this seems like a sufficient amount (I may have even missed some). I think we'll continue and expand on this in the second part also. :clap:

Yep, I wouldn't like this portrayed as a fairytale.
Considering how women are portrayed in those, I concur.


Hermione running to Ron at the Burrow (taking off the glasses), cafe cheek touch, Grimmauld place, splinching (yes, I count that), camping scene where is Harry is off by himself, all of Malfoy Manor and that continues to the end. I could have missed some, and these may seem small, but they are intimate moments IMO and since this is a movie about Harry this seems like a sufficient amount (I may have even missed some). I think we'll continue and expand on this in the second part also. :clap:

Ummmm....PIANO?!

Ron's return and his speech. Say what you want, but he glanced at Harry maybe once during that entire speech. The rest of the time he was obviously talking to Hermione.

Yep, I wouldn't like this portrayed as a fairytale.



Hermione running to Ron at the Burrow (taking off the glasses), cafe cheek touch, Grimmauld place, splinching (yes, I count that), camping scene where is Harry is off by himself, all of Malfoy Manor and that continues to the end. I could have missed some, and these may seem small, but they are intimate moments IMO and since this is a movie about Harry this seems like a sufficient amount (I may have even missed some). I think we'll continue and expand on this in the second part also. :clap:

It's been a few weeks since I saw the film, but I'm going to see again this next tuesday. That's probably why I didn't realize there were so many little moments...

That said however, I think the bigger moments belonged to H/H. Those were the ones I really remembered anyways, and aren't those the more important ones. I do count the splinching scene as R/H, but at the same time I wasn't really sure if she was upset because Ron was hurt or because she had made a mistake that caused someone else pain, regardless of who it was.

It was awesome that they did have all those little moments, but as far as moments go they were really really little. And if Ron had something similar to Harry's dance that would've evened it out.

I loved the dance scene because it works dramatically. When two people are isolated for a long time, they will begin to be attracted to each other, and the scene really showed the erotic temptation that was going on, but in the end Hermione didn't act on impulses which is what matters. I also loved the way that Radcliffe acted the scene; you could really sense that Harry wanted it to go further.
It has nothing to do with Harry betraying Ron, it's human nature, and Ron had already betrayed them both. And who's to say he was ever coming back?

And it wasn't as if Hermione didn't want it too. Remember she implies they should just stay hidden and grow old (together).

This is why I don't particularly like the scene. IMHO it was intended to show sexual tension, at least on Harry's part (and maybe Dan the actor as well). But it turns Hermione into a sex object ( I can hear the song "Love the One You're With" playing in the background in my head) and it makes Harry less repectful of his love for Ginny and Hermione's love for Ron. I know in times of war couples who are separated for long periods have major difficulty being staying true to each other...but it does happen, it really does.

I've known men who haved faced terror and horror much worse than what we see in DH and the one thing that keeps them sane is their connection to their loved ones back home, especially that "special someone". I feel this scene cheapens this idea, especially for younger members of the audience.

Maybe its just my own personal experience, but I still don't like the scene. If they had left out Harry taking the Locket off Hermione and Hermione looking down and seeming to be blushing it might have been better, but still...:grumble:

I know in the book Harry admits to himself that he lost hope when Ron left. But this scene seems to be saying Harry was willing to console himself and Hermione with a sexual encounter with the girl in love with his (former) best friend. I just don't like it. Sorry.

I like that Hermione turns him down (and that was its saving grace), but I found it bad that Harry would put her in that position in the first place. Yes, it was entertaining and the visuals were sorta "cute", but the undertone was soooo wrong.

Hope I'm not being too blunt.

Yes there are plenty of small moments, but maybe it comes down to whether you prefer a lot of little moments, or a few big moments. And I'm a big moments person.

Little moments can mean soooo much more. But I guess that's my opinion. :)

Yes there are plenty of small moments, but maybe it comes down to whether you prefer a lot of little moments, or a few big moments. And I'm a big moments person.

I consider Ron saving Hermione at Malfoy Manor, and his speech upon returning big moments for them. Even her running and hugging him after the 7 Potters could be considered a big moment considering how timid they have been with each other's feelings in the past. Do I wish they could have had a big moment like the dance, yes, but I certainly don't think it's fair to dismiss the moments they did have and refer to them as nothing because they didn't.

I consider Ron saving Hermione at Malfoy Manor, and his speech upon returning big moments for them. Even her running and hugging him after the 7 Potters could be considered a big moment considering how timid they have been with each other's feelings in the past. Do I wish they could have had a big moment like the dance, yes, but I certainly don't think it's fair to dismiss the moments they did have and refer to them as nothing because they didn't.

I wouldn't say that I'm dismissing the moments. (Although I really can't remember what happened at the malfoy mannor.) I'm just saying that the little moments are obviously far less note worthy, and while extremely nice to have, are eclipsed by the strong moments Harry and Hermione seem to have.

Little moments can mean soooo much more. But I guess that's my opinion. :)

Indeed! I'm a fan of subtlety, and all those little moments in DH1 are paving the way for The Big Moment of DH2. Those little moments are the ones that make your heart skip a beat. I have a feeling that the kiss is going to not be at all like the horcrux Harry/Hermione kiss. It's going to be good. That kiss between H/Hr wasn't good (like make you weak in the knees good), and I would be so disappointed if they went that route for the Ron/Hermione kiss in part 2.

I wouldn't say that I'm dismissing the moments. (Although I really can't remember what happened at the malfoy mannor.) I'm just saying that the little moments are obviously far less note worthy, and while extremely nice to have, are eclipsed by the strong moments Harry and Hermione seem to have.

Well in your opinion. Not everyone views them as far less noteworthy, and the dance, while a big moment seems forced to me, like they are trying to push something rather then it just happening naturally like Ron and Hermione. I have stated my complaints about the lack of alone moments between them, but I remember their moments far more then the Harry/Hermione ones.

Malfoy Manor was where Hermione was tortured and Ron saved her. Pretty big part of the movie in general.

Indeed! I'm a fan of subtlety, and all those little moments in DH1 are paving the way for The Big Moment of DH2. Those little moments are the ones that make your heart skip a beat. I have a feeling that the kiss is going to not be at all like the horcrux Harry/Hermione kiss. It's going to be good. That kiss between H/Hr wasn't good (like make you weak in the knees good), and I would be so disappointed if they went that route for the Ron/Hermione kiss in part 2.

I have faith that the R/H kiss will be much different. The R/H will be the culmination of all the LITTLE R/H moments. :love:
The horcrux kiss was done for a totally different effect.

I have faith that the R/H kiss will be much different. The R/H will be the culmination of all the LITTLE R/H moments. :love:
The horcrux kiss was done for a totally different effect.

The horcrux kiss was totally done for shock value. No way will the R/Hr kiss be done like that. It will actually mean something and be important.

Let's word your critiques constructive, please, but don't use this platform for insulting rants - for particular when you just don't agree with the decisions of a real life person. Thank you! :)

Apologies if I came across as insulting, was meant to be constructive by referring to things such as Star Wars which demonstrably contradict the assumption that sidekicks should not get together. Though did I get a little grumpy!

To me this is not him saying that he wants it to be H/H. I think he is saying that yes, we know it is R/H and that is wonderful. But you could still have that part of you that says, what would it be like IF it were not R/H and it was H/H? THis to me is not him advocating for them, but simply acknowledging that the possibility did exist (however small that possibility was).

I agree, for the most part I don't take anything these guys say at face value. Even Yates or Kloves, I always interpret it through the prism of PR and artistic merit/interpretation. I just think perhaps the use of the word "should" could have been replaced by "could" to more strongly convey the idea of possibility, as opposed to "should", which implies that the pairings were wrong. But on the whole, I don't take it seriously. Like I said previously (in what may have come across as insulting and a bit blunt, sorry admin!:blush:) Heyman doesn't have direct control over these decisions and so his words need not be taken too seriously, his thoughts aren't actually going to change the story. So yeah, in short, I'm with you on this.

Apologies if I came across as insulting, was meant to be constructive by referring to things such as Star Wars which demonstrably contradict the assumption that sidekicks should not get together. Though did I get a little grumpy!



I agree, for the most part I don't take anything these guys say at face value. Even Yates or Kloves, I always interpret it through the prism of PR and artistic merit/interpretation. I just think perhaps the use of the word "should" could have been replaced by "could" to more strongly convey the idea of possibility, as opposed to "should", which implies that the pairings were wrong. But on the whole, I don't take it seriously. Like I said previously (in what may have come across as insulting and a bit blunt, sorry admin!:blush:) Heyman doesn't have direct control over these decisions and so his words need not be taken too seriously, his thoughts aren't actually going to change the story. So yeah, in short, I'm with you on this.

His words might not change the story, but he needs to be careful about making statements like that. The audience should not be told who they should or shouldn't want even if the person making that statement doesn't necessarily mean it that way. It can alienate certain parts of their audience if they do that.

To me this is not him saying that he wants it to be H/H. I think he is saying that yes, we know it is R/H and that is wonderful. But you could still have that part of you that says, what would it be like IF it were not R/H and it was H/H? THis to me is not him advocating for them, but simply acknowledging that the possibility did exist (however small that possibility was).

Exactly. No where in that quote does he say it should be Harry and Hermione. He's simply acknowledging that some people wonder if it could have gone that way.

I sometimes find it funny that JKR doesn't have a problem with people viewing her work as open to interpretation, but some fans insist that it can't be, lol.

Exactly. No where in that quote does he say it should be Harry and Hermione. He's simply acknowledging that some people wonder if it could have gone that way.

I sometimes find it funny that JKR doesn't have a problem with people viewing her work as open to interpretation, but some fans insist that it can't be, lol.

That's just my opinion though. I don't think the couples were ever up for interpretation. The books were not written in a way that Harry and Hermione ever indicated they were attracted to each other. I mean JKR herself said that she was suprised people thought they could end up with each other, so her comments tend to contradict each other.

This is why I don't particularly like the scene. IMHO it was intended to show sexual tension, at least on Harry's part (and maybe Dan the actor as well). But it turns Hermione into a sex object ( I can hear the song "Love the One You're With" playing in the background in my head) and it makes Harry less repectful of his love for Ginny and Hermione's love for Ron. I know in times of war couples who are separated for long periods have major difficulty being staying true to each other...but it does happen, it really does.


I wouldn't say it necessarily turns her into a 'sex object'. I think this scene is a bit more than black and white whereas love =/= sexual.

Exactly. No where in that quote does he say it should be Harry and Hermione. He's simply acknowledging that some people wonder if it could have gone that way.

I sometimes find it funny that JKR doesn't have a problem with people viewing her work as open to interpretation, but some fans insist that it can't be, lol.

I think there's a fine line between interpretation and manipulating the canon though. I'm definitely not against fan fiction, which allows people to play with the world and characters in non-canon aspects and interpretation is a large part of literature. I'm very pleased that something like the dance scene has garnered so much interpretation and opinion. But nonetheless I think there is a very fine difference between making a legitimate interpretation based on what's on the page/screen and simply creating a point of view, which is not sanctioned/promoted by what's on the page/screen. For example, seeing sexual tension in the dance scene is a matter of interpretation. Claiming however that Hermione was totally into it and wanted to get kiss Harry etc, however, would be outside of the bounds of interpretation given the material at hand (I believe-I couldn't think of a better example for the moment). I think I'm making sense here?

Please don't think I'm against non-canon pairings. I just think we should differentiate between interpretation and non-canon. JKR is cool with non-canon, I agree! I'm not sure she'd want people misreading and misinterpreting her though. I hope that makes sense?:hmm:

I think there's a fine line between interpretation and manipulating the canon though. I'm definitely not against fan fiction, which allows people to play with the world and characters in non-canon aspects and interpretation is a large part of literature. I'm very pleased that something like the dance scene has garnered so much interpretation and opinion. But nonetheless I think there is a very fine difference between making a legitimate interpretation based on what's on the page/screen and simply creating a point of view, which is not sanctioned/promoted by what's on the page/screen. For example, seeing sexual tension in the dance scene is a matter of interpretation. Claiming however that Hermione was totally into it and wanted to get kiss Harry etc, however, would be outside of the bounds of interpretation given the material at hand (I believe-I couldn't think of a better example for the moment). I think I'm making sense here?

Please don't think I'm against non-canon pairings. I just think we should differentiate between interpretation and non-canon. JKR is cool with non-canon, I agree! I'm not sure she'd want people misreading and misinterpreting her though. I hope that makes sense?:hmm:

Yeah, I understand what you're saying ;) And I that's how I feel about the interpretation vs. non-canon. So I wouldn't necessarially say that Jo is contradicting herself.

What exactly is this referring to? I'm not really sure I understand.



The discussion on that page was on the scene where Ron leaves. Compared to his line in the book of "I get it. You choose him.", his movie line is seen as a poor replacement by some. I'm surprised to hear that anyone laughed at this, I don't think it suggests "teen drama", I think even without having an understanding of the relationships from the book it's clear that the implication is the same - that he baselessly worries she would choose him over her.

I thought the Ron/Hermione moments were great throughout DH1 (and completely overshadowed any Harry/Hermione moments - friendly or perceived otherwise, the only thing I really wish they had done was show the Ron/Hermione dance from the wedding), as they have been throughout all the movies. They really established the depth of their feelings, especially with Ron's departure which I think was loaded with R/H moments despite being so tense. It's been building up really well for a long time, unlike Harry/Ginny. I think we've all said all there is to say on that though, I really can't be bothered giving my thoughts any more on that fiasco, DH2 can't realistically save that relationship. Considering Harry/Ginny in the books didn't mean anything near as much to me as Ron/Hermione I really can't imagine just how strongly a rabid H/G fan must feel about their movie portrayal.

It's been a few weeks since I saw the film, but I'm going to see again this next tuesday. That's probably why I didn't realize there were so many little moments...

That said however, I think the bigger moments belonged to H/H. Those were the ones I really remembered anyways, and aren't those the more important ones. I do count the splinching scene as R/H, but at the same time I wasn't really sure if she was upset because Ron was hurt or because she had made a mistake that caused someone else pain, regardless of who it was. It was awesome that they did have all those little moments, but as far as moments go they were really really little. And if Ron had something similar to Harry's dance that would've evened it out.

[staff edit]

hermione was definitely upset because ron was hurt!
just look at emma's face once the essence of dittany starts to take effect at the end. that look of total affection says it all really.

and yes the moments were little - but they were subtle. big difference.

less is more is always the case with movie ron and hermione. they are quite constrained characters (hermione certaintly is) so when hermione flings herself into ron's arms after the 7 potters scene, it's quite out of character for her, which makes that moment all the more special.

and yes, having a ron/hermione moment similar to the 'dance' scene would have have perhaps evened things out a little, but it'll be the smaller moments that we'll remember.

and besides, although cut, yates did include quite a big ron/hermione scene with the lake scene, where ron teaches hermione how to skip a stone across water. maybe not as romantic as the dance that harry and hermione shared (which i thought was completly platonic) but from what yates was saying, it seemed quite a romantic scene between the two characters.

again, it showed hermione completly out of character (in a good way) as she attempts to force ron to be quite intimate with her, by having him show her exactly how to throw the stone, leading to ron having to stand behind her and hold his hand over hers to help her throw.
[staff edit]

i remember yates saying it was sort of similar to the moment in OOTP where harry puts his hand over cho's when helping her to perform a levitating spell.

[staff edit]

hermione was definitely upset because ron was hurt!
just look at emma's face once the essence of dittany starts to take effect at the end. that look of total affection says it all really.Exactly. Ron means a lot to her whether you are a fan of their romance or not, and by you, I mean in general. To act like she was just upset because she made a mistake is ridiculous IMO. She's upset because Ron is hurt. That's straight out of the book.

[staff edit]

hermione was definitely upset because ron was hurt!
just look at emma's face once the essence of dittany starts to take effect at the end. that look of total affection says it all really.

and yes the moments were little - but they were subtle. big difference.

less is more is always the case with movie ron and hermione. they are quite constrained characters (hermione certaintly is) so when hermione flings herself into ron's arms after the 7 potters scene, it's quite out of character for her, which makes that moment all the more special.

and yes, having a ron/hermione moment similar to the 'dance' scene would have have perhaps evened things out a little, but it'll be the smaller moments that we'll remember.

and besides, although cut, yates did include quite a big ron/hermione scene with the lake scene, where ron teaches hermione how to skip a stone across water. maybe not as romantic as the dance that harry and hermione shared (which i thought was completly platonic) but from what yates was saying, it seemed quite a romantic scene between the two characters.

again, it showed hermione completly out of character (in a good way) as she attempts to force ron to be quite intimate with her, by having him show her exactly how to throw the stone, leading to ron having to stand behind her and hold his hand over hers to help her throw.
[staff edit]

i remember yates saying it was sort of similar to the moment in OOTP where harry puts his hand over cho's when helping her to perform a levitating spell.


CAN NOT wait for the deleted scene of that. I completely understand why they cut it but I will enjoy it so much.

DH2 will do great with Ron/Hermione to finish things off, but like I said above I have little faith in Harry/Ginny. Some decent Harry/Ron moments might be nice as well but maybe that's too much to ask for.

The splinching scene was definitely a Ron/Hermione moment, and a great scene all round.

again, it showed hermione completly out of character (in a good way) as she attempts to force ron to be quite intimate with her, by having him show her exactly how to throw the stone, leading to ron having to stand behind her and hold his hand over hers to help her throw.
[staff edit]

i remember yates saying it was sort of similar to the moment in OOTP where harry puts his hand over cho's when helping her to perform a levitating spell.

Hmmm...I'm kind of happy that was cut then. That sounds quite cheezy and more than a bit out of character for Hermione, especially under the circumstances. The actors probably pulled it off, but I think that would have been quite out of place in the film.

As much as I love watching Rupert and Emma interact on screen (and don't get me wrong I would have loved a dance at the wedding :grumble:) I think their story is best told exactly the way the filmmakers did. Small subtle moments that show the viewer they are growing closer and their feelings are developing. We don't need these isolated scenes here and there. I loved that the filmmakers tried to make Ron and Hermione a fairly constant thing throughout this film. Putting in more "big" scenes between them, especially those not in the book, would likely have been at the expense of more important parts of the story being told. I think when you start listing and keeping track of R/Hr scenes you are missing the big picture.

Besides, as I said before I have the utmost confidence their kiss will be everything we're all hoping for!

Hmmm...I'm kind of happy that was cut then. That sounds quite cheezy and more than a bit out of character for Hermione, especially under the circumstances. The actors probably pulled it off, but I think that would have been quite out of place in the film.

I don't think it would have been anymore out of place then the dance was, and it would have been a nice balance to give them an intimate alone scene. Nothing can be done about it now though. I'm just glad it's going to be on the DVD.

The audience should not be told who they should or shouldn't want even if the person making that statement doesn't necessarily mean it that way.

I don't think he was trying to tell anyone who should or shouldn't be together. It was a statement saying that there could be a small part of you that might think or wonder what if.

I think their story is best told exactly the way the filmmakers did. Small subtle moments that show the viewer they are growing closer and their feelings are developing. We don't need these isolated scenes here and there. I loved that the filmmakers tried to make Ron and Hermione a fairly constant thing throughout this film. Putting in more "big" scenes between them, especially those not in the book, would likely have been at the expense of more important parts of the story being told. I think when you start listing and keeping track of R/Hr scenes you are missing the big picture.

Yes, they have had a proper build up in their relationship. We need to remember that theirs is not the main story here and it should not be front and center.

I don't think it would have been anymore out of place then the dance was, and it would have been a nice balance to give them an intimate alone scene. Nothing can be done about it now though. I'm just glad it's going to be on the DVD.

I think all of their little scenes equates to much more than one 'big' scene. It is not about the number of scenes one has or the 'size' of it, but what is accomplished with the scenes they do have. An example would be H/G kiss. A scene between the two alone that I would consider a fairly big one, yet it doesn't really make you believe in them as a couple. I definately believe in the R/H relationship though, because the scenes they are in show us their feelings.

That's just my opinion though. I don't think the couples were ever up for interpretation. The books were not written in a way that Harry and Hermione ever indicated they were attracted to each other. I mean JKR herself said that she was suprised people thought they could end up with each other, so her comments tend to contradict each other.

I don't mean the actual couples are open for interpretation. JKR set who ends up with who. Everyone knows what's canon. However, wondering about what "could have been" and "what if" moments are open to intepretation. And those interpretations can be based on views regarding what happens in various scenes of the books--which is exactly the case with the infamous scene (since JKR felt it reflected what she considered "charged" moments). This, I believe, is what Yates and JKR were trying to point out.
It still does not mean that they are saying Harry should have ended up with Hermione.
And I don't think JKR ever contradicted herself. She can be surprised that people thought it would be Hr/H, yet accept that if events had been different, it could have been.

For me, Harry and Hermione only have a platonic relationship. I don't see that scene as romantic, but some do interpret it that way, right? So based on this possible interpretation, I'd say the film just tried to give a subtle nod to the "what if" and what "could have been" views/opinions of the characters, despite what is canon.

I guess the appropriateness of wondering about non-canon related matters is open to interpretation too. :lol:

Hmmm...I'm kind of happy that was cut then. That sounds quite cheezy and more than a bit out of character for Hermione, especially under the circumstances. The actors probably pulled it off, but I think that would have been quite out of place in the film.

As much as I love watching Rupert and Emma interact on screen (and don't get me wrong I would have loved a dance at the wedding :grumble:) I think their story is best told exactly the way the filmmakers did. Small subtle moments that show the viewer they are growing closer and their feelings are developing. We don't need these isolated scenes here and there. I loved that the filmmakers tried to make Ron and Hermione a fairly constant thing throughout this film. Putting in more "big" scenes between them, especially those not in the book, would likely have been at the expense of more important parts of the story being told. I think when you start listing and keeping track of R/Hr scenes you are missing the big picture.

Besides, as I said before I have the utmost confidence their kiss will be everything we're all hoping for!

I completely understand what you're saying. For some reason, I have always loved the R/Hr relationship as a constant background factor in the characters' relationships. I loved that for the reader it was built up from subtle moments seen from Harry's pov. These constant hints throughout really gave the sense of a big build. To the point that I was actually slightly annoyed when the relationship was pretty much openly acknowledged in HBP, I wanted that to wait to the very end!:D I really love the unsaid aspects of the relationship, for some reason.

I
It still does not mean that they are saying Harry should have ended up with Hermione.


I see what you mean on the whole. I just personally think that if Heyman didn't want to imply that they should have ended up together he shouldn't have used the word 'should'. He should've used the word 'could' instead. Could = expresses possibility i.e what if. Should = ought to have, 'must' have.

Wow, a lot of 'shoulds' in that sentence. :D

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hermione was definitely upset because ron was hurt!
just look at emma's face once the essence of dittany starts to take effect at the end. that look of total affection says it all really.

and yes the moments were little - but they were subtle. big difference.

less is more is always the case with movie ron and hermione. they are quite constrained characters (hermione certaintly is) so when hermione flings herself into ron's arms after the 7 potters scene, it's quite out of character for her, which makes that moment all the more special.

and yes, having a ron/hermione moment similar to the 'dance' scene would have have perhaps evened things out a little, but it'll be the smaller moments that we'll remember.

and besides, although cut, yates did include quite a big ron/hermione scene with the lake scene, where ron teaches hermione how to skip a stone across water. maybe not as romantic as the dance that harry and hermione shared (which i thought was completly platonic) but from what yates was saying, it seemed quite a romantic scene between the two characters.

again, it showed hermione completly out of character (in a good way) as she attempts to force ron to be quite intimate with her, by having him show her exactly how to throw the stone, leading to ron having to stand behind her and hold his hand over hers to help her throw.
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i remember yates saying it was sort of similar to the moment in OOTP where harry puts his hand over cho's when helping her to perform a levitating spell.

That deleted scene sounds hot! I can't wait. I just think it's unfortunate that they didn't put it in.

In hind sight, I honestly think that I would've been a lot happier with the romance between H/R (not to say that I'm not already happy), if they hadn't included the innocent moments between Harry and Hermione. All it made me think was, holy ****, why can't H/R have real strong moment like that. And that deleted scene would've totally made up for that in a big way. But alas.

Also, when I said you could've mistaken Hermione being upset after apperating, I'm just saying it's slightly weakened by the minor ambiguity of it all. It is still a positive moment, possibly the strongest moment between R/H, but I think it could've been stronger if it was just a little more clear. I know I'm nitpicking here, but whatever. This is where I come to nitpick.

It's still great that they're developing the relationship and all. I just wish overall this very unclear Harry/Hermione business wasn't there. In fact, after DH comes out in full on dvd I'll probably try cutting my own version without those weird moments.

That deleted scene sounds hot! I can't wait. I just think it's unfortunate that they didn't put it in.

In hind sight, I honestly think that I would've been a lot happier with the romance between H/R (not to say that I'm not already happy), if they hadn't included the innocent moments between Harry and Hermione. All it made me think was, holy ****, why can't H/R have real strong moment like that. And that deleted scene would've totally made up for that in a big way. But alas.

Also, when I said you could've mistaken Hermione being upset after apperating, I'm just saying it's slightly weakened by the minor ambiguity of it all. It is still a positive moment, possibly the strongest moment between R/H, but I think it could've been stronger if it was just a little more clear. I know I'm nitpicking here, but whatever. This is where I come to nitpick.

It's still great that they're developing the relationship and all. I just wish overall this very unclear Harry/Hermione business wasn't there. In fact, after DH comes out in full on dvd I'll probably try cutting my own version without those weird moments.

I don't understand how it could have been more clear though. He's laying there in tremendous pain, she's sitting next to him clearly upset and trying to comfort him. There's nothing ambigous about it. Taking the romance out of it, her best friend is hurt and she's upset. She's not shallow enough to just be upset that she messed up.

About the Ron/Harry fight scene:
I didn't think that it was a big deal. I mean, I love the books just as much as you all do, but I don't think it made much difference. The point was made. I agree, Rupert did a wonderful job with everything they gave him, and as far as the fighting scenes go I'd say that got somewhere close to a perfect score. However, I was disappointed with the Dobby scene. They could have done that better, for sure. I was prepared to cry, but the tears never came! xD

Sigh. lol I don't what else I can say that I haven't already said. I obviously hated the dance. I didn't like Harry trying to seduce Hermione. I think it does a real disservice to his character. Harry would never go after the girl that his best friend loves. It really made me look at him differently. The dance was a huge mistake IMO. It also makes me doubt even more that Harry even likes Ginny. I also hate that Ron and Hermione don't get scenes anywhere near that intimate. They never get to be alone, and if they actually film scenes with them alone they are cut. It's just super frustrating. That's not to say that they didn't have some nice moments in this movie, but Harry was always there. Even a nice little intimate moment between them after the 7 potters had to turn into a Harry moment.


Only that that was only one way to view the entire thing. I think it illustrates the lens through which we all look with. It seemed innocent, friendly, respectful and NOT seductive or romantic. I think some people are not able to look at such a scene without putting their own feelings/sentiments/views right over it. I saw nothing but two sad friends in a sad moment. Nothing else. My lens see's this scene in an entirely different way.

I see what you mean on the whole. I just personally think that if Heyman didn't want to imply that they should have ended up together he shouldn't have used the word 'should'. He should've used the word 'could' instead. Could = expresses possibility i.e what if. Should = ought to have, 'must' have.
Then again, 'should' expresses an opinion, and 'could' expresses a possibility. Maybe he said should because that would have been his preference, instead of 'could' because nobody can really say what 'could' have been expect JKR?

Confusing, isn't it? LOL!

Just as a point of contrast to Heyman's other quote in this forum:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BEiRI7PWX_s

The beginning of the video (about the 1 minute mark) has some snippets of an interview with him, and it should quell anyone's fears that there's a H/Hr conspiracy going on behind the scenes.

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Just as a point of contrast to Heyman's other quote in this forum:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BEiRI7PWX_s

The beginning of the video (about the 1 minute mark) has some snippets of an interview with him, and it should quell anyone's fears that there's a H/Hr conspiracy going on behind the scenes.

I remember seeing that, and I still believe that the filmmakers are very much pro Hermione/Harry. Especially Kloves. I don't think that dance would exist if they didn't. I thought this long before I read that quote from Heyman though. For me there is just too much evidence for me to believe otherwise.

I remember seeing that, and I still believe that the filmmakers are very much pro Hermione/Harry. Especially Kloves. I don't think that dance would exist if they didn't. I thought this long before I read that quote from Heyman though. For me there is just too much evidence for me to believe otherwise.

Pro Hermione/Harry in a romantic sense? Absolutely not in my opinion. In a friendship sense? Without a doubt.

Then again, 'should' expresses an opinion, and 'could' expresses a possibility. Maybe he said should because that would have been his preference, instead of 'could' because nobody can really say what 'could' have been expect JKR?

Confusing, isn't it? LOL!

Haha, quite right. I really think I should go revise my subjunctives then I wouldn't be having this problem. Oh the intricacies of grammar!

I just had a thought, well, one which had occurred to me earlier but was not yet fully formed. It would appear that in some ways Heyman could have said what he said through the paradigm of movie conventions. The movies have for necessary reasons elevated Hermione to a 'secondary' lead. And, as I believe has already been mentioned here somewhere, it's Hollywood convention for the male lead and female lead to get together. And with Ron playing the slacker/comedic relief, it would stand that within film conventions Harry and Hermione "should" have gotten together. (Of course, not my personal opinion)

Of course, this wasn't so, JKR wrote against modern convention. JKR was however, I believe, working within establish archetypes. Star Wars is the perfect parallel for an archetypal trio. Given that George Lucas worked with Joseph Campell, author of "The Hero with a Thousand Faces", which deconstructed the Hero's Journey, I can only assume that with the parallels JKR was working (consciously or unconsciously) within established archetypes. However, these archetypes have most likely been somewhat overwhelmed by Hollywood conventions in the modern mind.

That and as soon as Hermione told Ron he had dirt on his nose in PS/SS book, I recognised the set up=archetype. That or I watched too much Star Wars as a child.:D;)

Ahh, well that was a rather long explanation and analysis spurned by a Heyman comment I was originally rather non-plussed about. :hmm:

Considering what they’ve just been through (Godric’s Hollow) and that they’ve got no idea what to do next I think Hermione was just implying they should give up on their mission and not that she wants to spend the rest of her life romantically involved with Harry.


But isn't this a bit out of character for Hermione anyway? In the books she's the one who has to keep Harry on track and keep them going on the mission to find and destroy Horcruxes. I mean I know the film characters are different, but that was the bit about that scene I found jarring, that it wasn't very Hermione. But I agree I don't think there was meant to be a romantic implication in that particular scene though, I think it was just to get the scale of the mission they're on across, with mentioning Hermione's parents, that's what I took it as :)

And there were plenty of Ron/Hermione moments, much more than any small Harry/Hermione moments so I'm not worried about that, I feel Ron and Hermione has been set up very well in the films and DH was no different :) I really liked those little moments between the two of them.

Only that that was only one way to view the entire thing. I think it illustrates the lens through which we all look with. It seemed innocent, friendly, respectful and NOT seductive or romantic. I think some people are not able to look at such a scene without putting their own feelings/sentiments/views right over it. I saw nothing but two sad friends in a sad moment. Nothing else. My lens see's this scene in an entirely different way.

I agree with this comment entirely. I never thought there was anything going on between Harry and Hermione during that scene. It's just the way Harry acts during it. His manner isn't romantic at all, it's just goofy. He's got a cornball grin on his face the entire time and he's exaggerating the motions of the dance to try and get her to laugh. That's it. I think that if they were trying to establish a "seduction" undercurrent that dance would have looked a lot different. Harry's just trying to comfort his friend. He knows how badly she hurts at that moment and wants to make her feel better. I personally thought that scene was very good, despite going against the established canon. It was touching.

I don't understand how it could have been more clear though. He's laying there in tremendous pain, she's sitting next to him clearly upset and trying to comfort him. There's nothing ambigous about it. Taking the romance out of it, her best friend is hurt and she's upset. She's not shallow enough to just be upset that she messed up.

Have we ever seen Hermione make a mistake that ended up hurting someone else? What was her reaction then? I can't recall anytime she did accidentally cause pain to someone else, but I think it's entirely within her character to be upset that she splinched someone.

Only that that was only one way to view the entire thing. I think it illustrates the lens through which we all look with. It seemed innocent, friendly, respectful and NOT seductive or romantic. I think some people are not able to look at such a scene without putting their own feelings/sentiments/views right over it. I saw nothing but two sad friends in a sad moment. Nothing else. My lens see's this scene in an entirely different way.

I wouldn't say it was an overly seductive scene, but even most people will admit there's something a little strange going on between them. Especially at the end when Hermione sort of breaks it off.

But even if you take it as purely plutonic, you help but compare it to what little moments that Ron/Hermione have had and say, "man, I wish they had one of those".

Have we ever seen Hermione make a mistake that ended up hurting someone else? What was her reaction then? I can't recall anytime she did accidentally cause pain to someone else, but I think it's entirely within her character to be upset that she splinched someone.



I wouldn't say it was an overly seductive scene, but even most people will admit there's something a little strange going on between them. Especially at the end when Hermione sort of breaks it off.

But even if you take it as purely plutonic, you help but compare it to what little moments that Ron/Hermione have had and say, "man, I wish they had one of those".


Her just being upset because she made a mistake would make her very shallow and a horrible friend. She's upset because Ron is hurt. I thought that was made very clear and comes straight from the book. If she's only upset that she made a mistake, then that's basically implying that she's super selfish and doesn't care about Ron, and that's just not Hermione.


But even if you take it as purely plutonic, you help but compare it to what little moments that Ron/Hermione have had and say, "man, I wish they had one of those".

I've made it very clear that I wish R/Hr had at least one alone scene, but I would take all their "little" moments over that dance. I think a lot of people have expressed that sentiment.

I definitely think the film makers were going for a 'what if' moment during the dance. But I think it was played cleverly, in a way that wouldn't damage the R/Hr or the relationship between the trio.

And it all has to do with the extraordinary circumstances the characters were experiencing. Harry and Hermione were abandoned by Ron and had no idea whether they would ever see him again or whether they would even survive this ordeal. They were alone, exhausted, and afraid.

Harry clearly wants to cheer Hermione up, but there is also the basic human need for comfort and caring touch. So it is completely understandable in a situation like this if a bit of sexual tension develops (a 'what if' moment). It's a normal human response, given the circumstances.

And we already know JKR included some 'what if' moments for H/Hr in DH (albeit more subtly). The charged moments she mentions (Harry's eyes closing as Hermione touches his hair, and the two walking arm in arm under the kissing gate in Godric's Hollow, etc.).

So the film makers are really not out of bounds including some 'what if' moments in DH. I think the problem is the fact that Ron's character has been denigrated to 'comic relief' in most of the previous films. So it's a lot harder for the film audience to see the depth in the R/Hr relationship. Especially when the H/Hr friendship has always been given more screen time.

Ok so I am gonna give my post a second shot. lol


Firstly I agree with those who have said they prefer the subtlety of Ron and Hermione to the big moments of Harry and Hermione. I think it is consistent with JK's writing to makes things that are more subdue major themes. One example being the locket which is mentioned only in passing in OOTP but becomes a major theme in DH.

Now for the dance scene.

1) If only analyzing the beginning yes one may come to the conclusion that it is a seduction on the part of Dan (I say Dan because I feel that is totally uncharacteristic of Harry). But the scene taken as a whole it is truly in its nature, platonic. Doing child like twist dancing over two feet apart is not a dance of seduction, at least not in my opinion.

2) The scene ended showing Harry's real feelings for Hermione, wanting to comfort her, cheer her up...etc. But even if there was a fleeting thought of potential seduction or "hook up" it clearly and quickly faded.

3) On Hermione's end it is strictly platonic. She accepts the opportunity to be cheerful for a few moments, but when its over she looks every bit as sad as before, no longer wishing for anymore intimacy with Harry. If anything that scene shows the depth at which Hermione misses Ron. And on further reflection how empty they are without him.

4) Hermione and Harry would never pursue anything romantic or sexual with each other, no matter how the big the fight with Ron. It would be spiteful and selfish and go directly against their core personalities.

First let me say that I don't have any problems with the dance.

Now, I've read a lot of people saying that they wish Ron and Hermione would have gotten a moment like the dance that Harry and Hermione did. At first, I completely agreed and was upset that they couldn't have an intimate or romantic moment at all. Now that I've thought about it more, I realize that they couldn't have had a moment like that in a film because of this:

General movie audiences are used to a specific formula in a film. If there are two characters with romantic tension in a film, they are expected to get together at the end, or at least have a kiss. Now lets say Ron and Hermione were getting all cozy in DH1 (more than they already have because they did have some tender moments), the people watching who haven't read the books would get very frustrated that they didn't at least kiss by the end. They would be like, "what happened to Ron and Hermione? I so thought they were gonna end up together at the end!" Now I bet some people already feel this way, because there have been subtle hints for many movies now about R/Hr, but I bet a lot more people wouldn't like it if there were some major intimate scenes, and then after all that tension, they didn't even get a kiss in the end!

This is why I feel like most of the intimate scenes between Ron and Hermione will be in part two. This way, the audience will definitely feel the tension and the romance, and near the end when they kiss, they will be satisfied. I know it was very frustrating for the book readers for them to not get together for 7 books. But all that works in a book. Movie audiences have less patience with stuff like this. There are movies with characters having tension and hooking up, but then getting separated or broken up due to something. But I can't think of a movie right now with the characters having major romantic tension, but not even getting a single kiss! The only one that comes close was Star Wars: A New Hope with Han and Leia. But that doesn't really count for me because at that point, Han and Leia didn't have that much tension yet, and some people thought Leia would get with Luke. In the Empire Strikes Back, when they do have more intimate scenes and there's clearly tension, they end up kissing. There was no way for them to not kiss in that movie because then the audiences would get very frustrated at having to wait for another movie for one simple kiss.

With Ron and Hermione, intimate scenes would not work at this point because they aren't supposed to kiss until DH2. Which is why I think Rupert mentioned in an interview about them "being all couply" and the kiss "not coming out of nowhere". I'm pretty sure that in the next movie, they will set up the relationship even more with more intimate scenes so that by the time they finally kiss, the audiences will have been waiting long, but not too long...if that makes any sense.

Hopefully, I've explained myself properly about why I don't think Ron and Hermione need any romantic or intimate scenes yet. This is all just my opinion, of course. :)

With Ron and Hermione, intimate scenes would not work at this point because they aren't supposed to kiss until DH2. Which is why I think Rupert mentioned in an interview about them "being all couply" and the kiss "not coming out of nowhere". I'm pretty sure that in the next movie, they will set up the relationship even more with more intimate scenes so that by the time they finally kiss, the audiences will have been waiting long, but not too long...if that makes any sense.

Hopefully, I've explained myself properly about why I don't think Ron and Hermione need any romantic or intimate scenes yet. This is all just my opinion, of course. :)

Wow, I hadn't thought of it that way. But yes, that's very true. And I think that's where the smaller, subtler moments work. They build the relationship. Whereas big open moments of affection, would be like pointing out that they definitely are together and yet we wouldn't get any pay off with a kiss. Nice thinking!:tu: And extra points for Star Wars reference ;)

I think that it's very difficult to convey the Ron/Hermione romance in the films, because a lot of the conscious realization comes from Harry as narrator. There's never really an obvious "couple moment" until the kiss in Deathly Hallows, but Harry realizes the depth of the feelings the two share for each other. The trouble is, it's almost always an internal appreciation. The Silver Doe is where Harry discusses Ron and Hermione's relationship. Never before in the books is there a scene where Harry talks about it to anyone. Consequently, it's tough for the filmmakers to really make the romance bloom in a manner similar to the books. There's almost no way to share a character's internal thoughts with the audience except for voice-over, which would wreck the tone of the movie.

Wow, I hadn't thought of it that way. But yes, that's very true. And I think that's where the smaller, subtler moments work. They build the relationship. Whereas big open moments of affection, would be like pointing out that they definitely are together and yet we wouldn't get any pay off with a kiss. Nice thinking!:tu: And extra points for Star Wars reference ;)

Thanks! I'm glad I got that point across to someone. It is a difficult romance to portray. In the books, we waited for 7 books for them to get together similar to how we waited for 7 books for Harry to finally defeat Voldemort. In the movies, people would be like, "enough already! just kiss her!" if they made larger Ron/Hermione moments than they have already. Could you imagine them changing the movies so that Ron and Hermione were officially a couple from OotP? Jumping the shark, anyone? :lol:

First let me say that I don't have any problems with the dance.

Now, I've read a lot of people saying that they wish Ron and Hermione would have gotten a moment like the dance that Harry and Hermione did. At first, I completely agreed and was upset that they couldn't have an intimate or romantic moment at all. Now that I've thought about it more, I realize that they couldn't have had a moment like that in a film because of this:

General movie audiences are used to a specific formula in a film. If there are two characters with romantic tension in a film, they are expected to get together at the end, or at least have a kiss. Now lets say Ron and Hermione were getting all cozy in DH1 (more than they already have because they did have some tender moments), the people watching who haven't read the books would get very frustrated that they didn't at least kiss by the end. They would be like, "what happened to Ron and Hermione? I so thought they were gonna end up together at the end!" Now I bet some people already feel this way, because there have been subtle hints for many movies now about R/Hr, but I bet a lot more people wouldn't like it if there were some major intimate scenes, and then after all that tension, they didn't even get a kiss in the end!

This is why I feel like most of the intimate scenes between Ron and Hermione will be in part two. This way, the audience will definitely feel the tension and the romance, and near the end when they kiss, they will be satisfied. I know it was very frustrating for the book readers for them to not get together for 7 books. But all that works in a book. Movie audiences have less patience with stuff like this. There are movies with characters having tension and hooking up, but then getting separated or broken up due to something. But I can't think of a movie right now with the characters having major romantic tension, but not even getting a single kiss! The only one that comes close was Star Wars: A New Hope with Han and Leia. But that doesn't really count for me because at that point, Han and Leia didn't have that much tension yet, and some people thought Leia would get with Luke. In the Empire Strikes Back, when they do have more intimate scenes and there's clearly tension, they end up kissing. There was no way for them to not kiss in that movie because then the audiences would get very frustrated at having to wait for another movie for one simple kiss.

With Ron and Hermione, intimate scenes would not work at this point because they aren't supposed to kiss until DH2. Which is why I think Rupert mentioned in an interview about them "being all couply" and the kiss "not coming out of nowhere". I'm pretty sure that in the next movie, they will set up the relationship even more with more intimate scenes so that by the time they finally kiss, the audiences will have been waiting long, but not too long...if that makes any sense.

Hopefully, I've explained myself properly about why I don't think Ron and Hermione need any romantic or intimate scenes yet. This is all just my opinion, of course. :)

Here's the thing though. You're right about a scene like that coming too early and its detriments.

But I'm not talking about R/H getting it on or anything. I'm just saying they don't have very many big interactions.

I'm gonna try and put this into "the office" frame of reference, because that was the last tv show I watched that had good relationship development. Jim and Pam didn't have any make out moments for a whole 2 seasons, but at the same time they shared a lot of great interactions. And the interactions were what made you think they were really good together.

I think that the HP movie creators have skipped the interactions that make us believe they're right for each other, and have just sort of proclaimed that they're right for each other.

Here's the thing though. You're right about a scene like that coming too early and its detriments.

But I'm not talking about R/H getting it on or anything. I'm just saying they don't have very many big interactions.

I'm gonna try and put this into "the office" frame of reference, because that was the last tv show I watched that had good relationship development. Jim and Pam didn't have any make out moments for a whole 2 seasons, but at the same time they shared a lot of great interactions. And the interactions were what made you think they were really good together.

I think that the HP movie creators have skipped the interactions that make us believe they're right for each other, and have just sort of proclaimed that they're right for each other.

I see what you mean. I guess for me, I feel like these types of moments that you're referencing are already there. Now I haven't watched every episode of The Office, but the Jim/Pam stuff I remember from the early seasons were little moments where they looked longingly at each other, moments of jealousy when Pam was with her fiance or Jim was with Karen, and conversations they would have where they make each other laugh. With Ron and Hermione, the longing looks and jealousy are definitely there, and I'm pretty sure not many people would say otherwise. About the conversations and connections, I would argue that this is there too. In the movies, Ron and Hermione clearly have time together without Harry. In fact, whenever Harry comes find them after he does something on his own, they are always together. We see moments from back in PoA where Ron/Hermione have moments without Harry and are enjoying themselves such as: the Hogmeade visit by themselves, the scene in OotP where they are talking about Hermione doing Ron's homework, and in HBP when they have been in The Burrow without Harry for a long time, and the piano scene in DH1.

I understand that there aren't a lot of these moments though, and that might be frustrating. But again, the reason for this is because the books are from Harry's point of view. It wouldn't make much sense in the movie if instead of getting Harry's meeting with Dumbledore, we see Ron and Hermione hanging out in the common room joking about Snape. I just see that these conversations and possible flirting between these two characters are going on off screen, and we don't get to see it because there are other, more important things for us to watch, like finding out about horcruxes. I think the movies have enough hints that this is going on, IMO. What else would Ron and Hermione be doing when they are hanging out without Harry? It's too bad we don't get to hear there conversations, but it's ok because this is the structure of the books.


Anyways, just my thoughts.

I see what you mean. I guess for me, I feel like these types of moments that you're referencing are already there. Now I haven't watched every episode of The Office, but the Jim/Pam stuff I remember from the early seasons were little moments where they looked longingly at each other, moments of jealousy when Pam was with her fiance or Jim was with Karen, and conversations they would have where they make each other laugh. With Ron and Hermione, the longing looks and jealousy are definitely there, and I'm pretty sure not many people would say otherwise. About the conversations and connections, I would argue that this is there too. In the movies, Ron and Hermione clearly have time together without Harry. In fact, whenever Harry comes find them after he does something on his own, they are always together. We see moments from back in PoA where Ron/Hermione have moments without Harry and are enjoying themselves such as: the Hogmeade visit by themselves, the scene in OotP where they are talking about Hermione doing Ron's homework, and in HBP when they have been in The Burrow without Harry for a long time, and the piano scene in DH1.

I understand that there aren't a lot of these moments though, and that might be frustrating. But again, the reason for this is because the books are from Harry's point of view. It wouldn't make much sense in the movie if instead of getting Harry's meeting with Dumbledore, we see Ron and Hermione hanging out in the common room joking about Snape. I just see that these conversations and possible flirting between these two characters are going on off screen, and we don't get to see it because there are other, more important things for us to watch, like finding out about horcruxes. I think the movies have enough hints that this is going on, IMO. What else would Ron and Hermione be doing when they are hanging out without Harry? It's too bad we don't get to hear there conversations, but it's ok because this is the structure of the books.


Anyways, just my thoughts.

I think that the little moments are there, possibly even to the same extent as the office. What's missing though are the larger interactions like pulling a prank, or just talking even.

But you're right about the movies being from Harry's perspective. I totally forgot about that. Kind of hard to show one of those moments when Harry has to be in every scene.

But then again, would having one scene away from harry have destroyed the film?

But then again, would having one scene away from harry have destroyed the film?
Yes it would.

Romance scenes discussion: R/Hr moments, very sweet. Sweeter perhaps that any other moment in the series. H/G moments, far more convincing this time about their love for each other. Misinterpretted H/Hr moments, hilariously laughable especially the locket scene. First they belittle Ron and then they appear nude making out? I can't wait until a parody comes out where they showed the extended sequence of that scene where the cloud then shows Ron that they're married, have destructive twins, complain about paying taxes, have a big fight, divorce and become bittered friends ending up with the locket saying, "Yes Ron....you're greatest fear is having to see your best friends separately and having to listen to them complain about each other while having to support them both. You're greatest fear is having to make a choice Ron."

Fleur, you're even more cruel to this fandom than I am! XD

Ron and Hermione having one scene away from Harry would have ruined the film? How so? Will Harry not being there for their kiss ruin Part 2? Giving them one scene alone would not have ruined the film in anyway IMO. So does any scene without Harry ruin the film? The rock throwing scene would have been a very nice addition to the film IMO.

Ron and Hermione having one scene away from Harry would have ruined the film? How so? Will Harry not being there for their kiss ruin Part 2? Giving them one scene alone would not have ruined the film in anyway IMO. So does any scene without Harry ruin the film? The rock throwing scene would have been a very nice addition to the film IMO.

The problem with having a Ron and Hermione exclusive scene isn't that it would take away from the movie, but that it would show nothing that can not already be deduced: Ron and Hermione have feelings for each other. The hug after Ron lands at the Burrow, the way Ron looks at Hermione at the dance, the piano scene, and of course the infamous locket scene clearly establish the relationship dynamic. Compound this with the messy relationships from Half-Blood Prince, and we know where everyone's heart lies.

The problem with having a Ron and Hermione exclusive scene isn't that it would take away from the movie, but that it would show nothing that can not already be deduced: Ron and Hermione have feelings for each other. The hug after Ron lands at the Burrow, the way Ron looks at Hermione at the dance, the piano scene, and of course the infamous locket scene clearly establish the relationship dynamic. Compound this with the messy relationships from Half-Blood Prince, and we know where everyone's heart lies.

It's not hard to deduce that there's something romantic going on between them. It would have been nice though to see why they liked each other via good interactions.

I agree, it's not hard to figure out that Hermione and Ron have romantic feelings for one another. The films have been very clear about that. The problem, imo, is that over the course of the past 4 or 5 movies, the film makers have given a lot more attention to the H/Hr friendship.

So at this point there's an imbalance in what relationships the average movie goer might consider the most important.

I agree, it's not hard to figure out that Hermione and Ron have romantic feelings for one another. The films have been very clear about that. The problem, imo, is that over the course of the past 4 or 5 movies, the film makers have given a lot more attention to the H/Hr friendship.

So at this point there's an imbalance in what relationships the average movie goer might consider the most important.

Uh huh.
And I think this just goes back to the point of the movies trying to stay within Harry's POV. Clearly Harry's friendships are more in the forefront for him (and consequently the films), than the supporting characters' romantic relationships.

Harry notices the subtle hints that Ron and Hermione are romantically interested in each other, and therefore the audience just gets to view the subtle hints (though imo, they are more than subtle; they are very obvious) that Harry sees. I wouldn't expect for there to be lots of Ron/Hermoine alone moments. We don't witness any Ron/Hermione alone moments in the books, so it makes sense to me that we don't get them in the movies. We do, however, get Harry/Hermione alone moments in the books (and Harry/Ron alone moments), and thus, they occur in the movies. Ron and Hermione's relationship IS NOT central to the series--Harry's actions/choices, and the support he gets from his friends are.

And as has been pointed out, the film is giving Ron and Hermione a moment alone for their kiss, which of course is a far stretch from what we get in the book. So that alone, imo, is a very clearly and overtly catering to the die-hard Ron/Hermione shippers.
So I'm not sure why there are so many Ron/Hermione complaints. For a series in general that does not have romance in the forefront, Ron and Hermione have been handled with care and their relationship has been built up since COS.

Uh huh.
And I think this just goes back to the point of the movies trying to stay within Harry's POV. Clearly Harry's friendships are more in the forefront for him (and consequently the films), than the supporting characters' romantic relationships.

Harry notices the subtle hints that Ron and Hermione are romantically interested in each other, and therefore the audience just gets to view the subtle hints (though imo, they are more than subtle; they are very obvious) that Harry sees. I wouldn't expect for there to be lots of Ron/Hermoine alone moments. We don't witness any Ron/Hermione alone moments in the books, so it makes sense to me that we don't get them in the movies. We do, however, get Harry/Hermione alone moments in the books (and Harry/Ron alone moments), and thus, they occur in the movies. Ron and Hermione's relationship IS NOT central to the series--Harry's actions/choices, and the support he gets from his friends are.

And as has been pointed out, the film is giving Ron and Hermione a moment alone for their kiss, which of course is a far stretch from what we get in the book. So that alone, imo, is a very clearly and overtly catering to the die-hard Ron/Hermione shippers.
So I'm not sure why there are so many Ron/Hermione complaints. For a series in general that does not have romance in the forefront, Ron and Hermione have been handled with care and their relationship has been built up since COS.

So get creative! If the director can put in a scene of Harry and Hermione dancing, they can definitely come up with something from Harry's perspective that's more than a hug and a cry.

So get creative! If the director can put in a scene of Harry and Hermione dancing, they can definitely come up with something from Harry's perspective that's more than a hug and a cry.

Especially since the movies, at least IMO, are not strictly from Harry's POV like the books are. For the most part they are, but there are definitely exceptions. They filmed the skipping stones scenes, so clearly they aren't thinking that Ron and Hermione can't be alone at all, they just felt the tone of that scene didn't fit. It would hardly be a horrible thing for them to have one alone scene before the kiss. I don't think it would take away from the main story or the movie at all. I've never understood the mentality that Harry has to be there for all the Ron/Hermione stuff.

Especially since the movies, at least IMO, are not strictly from Harry's POV like the books are. For the most part they are, but there are definitely exceptions. They filmed the skipping stones scenes, so clearly they aren't thinking that Ron and Hermione can't be alone at all, they just felt the tone of that scene didn't fit. It would hardly be a horrible thing for them to have one alone scene before the kiss. I don't think it would take away from the main story or the movie at all. I've never understood the mentality that Harry has to be there for all the Ron/Hermione stuff.

Also, and I don't know if anyone can spot this or not, but I believe Heyman says they only started doing things strictly through his perspective after COS.

But aren't the earliest movies also from his perspective? And it's one thing from a novel, but is it really necessary in a film, or is just a big constraint. Because, quite honestly, seeing things from only one perspective has spectacular drawbacks. I can't imagine the books being very romantic at all for Ron/Hermione.

Also, and I don't know if anyone can spot this or not, but I believe Heyman says they only started doing things strictly through his perspective after COS.

But aren't the earliest movies also from his perspective? And it's one thing from a novel, but is it really necessary in a film, or is just a big constraint. Because, quite honestly, seeing things from only one perspective has spectacular drawbacks. I can't imagine the books being very romantic at all for Ron/Hermione.

I loved Ron and Hermione in the books and thought they were done perfectly even from Harry's perspective. In the movies though, I think it's hard to strictly keep it from his perspective all the time.

Uh huh.
And I think this just goes back to the point of the movies trying to stay within Harry's POV. Clearly Harry's friendships are more in the forefront for him (and consequently the films), than the supporting characters' romantic relationships.

Well if the movies are from Harry's point of view, why does the H/Hr friendship get more attention and screen time than the Harry/Ron friendship and the H/G relationship combined?

I think what myself and some others are saying is the film makers have shown a general bias towards the H/Hr friendship over the past several films that distorts the importance of that relationship, making it seem more important than Harry's relationship with other characters, and negatively impacts the dynamics between the trio in general (including the R/Hr relationship).

Well if the movies are from Harry's point of view, why does the H/Hr friendship get more attention and screen time than the Harry/Ron friendship and the H/G relationship combined?

I think what myself and some others are saying is the film makers have shown a general bias towards the H/Hr friendship over the past several films that distorts the importance of that relationship, making it seem more important than Harry's relationship with other characters, and negatively impacts the dynamics between the trio in general (including the R/Hr relationship).

Exactly. Ron and Hermione have been reduced to an afterthought, and half the time you wouldn't even know that Harry and Ron are very good friends all for the sake of making Hermione and Harry the bestest relationship to ever exist. The movies have pretty much spit on the Ron/Harry friendship. I think all most people want is balance. It would be nice to see what great friends Ron and Harry are as well as how deeply bonded Ron and Hermione are as well. Other relationships shouldn't be sacrificed for the sake of one.

Exactly. Ron and Hermione have been reduced to an afterthought, and half the time you wouldn't even know that Harry and Ron are very good friends all for the sake of making Hermione and Harry the bestest relationship to ever exist. The movies have pretty much spit on the Ron/Harry friendship. I think all most people want is balance. It would be nice to see what great friends Ron and Harry are as well as how deeply bonded Ron and Hermione are as well. Other relationships shouldn't be sacrificed for the sake of one.

Watching the films back you do see a closeness between Ron and Harry, mostly in COS and GOF, and a few moments in HBP. Still not really established and balanced enough though and it's one of my major complaints with the movies.

The Ron/Hermione relationship in the films genuinely makes me feel, something that goes beyond simply knowing that they get together, their interactions genuinely touch me (believe it or not I'm a guy :D). I've never really thought that there wasn't enough evidence of why they like each other, which is something that can be levelled at Harry/Ginny. Too many scenes throughout the series without Harry would have been incongruous and inconsistent with the books but in DH2 I think it will work better because they now have so much more time to work with, and there is so much more going on that Harry isn't actually involved with, which hasn't really been the case in earlier movies where they've removed action that takes place without Harry. For example in the DoM battle in OOTP they all stay together and there's no battle on the astronomy tower in HBP. I think this is partly what they mean when they say they made a decision to focus on Harry's POV. In fact I can see exactly what Heyman means by this but I find it difficult to explain precisely how I perceive it :/ Not that it's particularly ambiguous, but there is some uncertainty surrounding this quote.

So get creative! If the director can put in a scene of Harry and Hermione dancing, they can definitely come up with something from Harry's perspective that's more than a hug and a cry.

Well, none of us can control what the directors do, can we?
Maybe they just really don't find it necessary. Prior to DH, all Harry really witnesses on a regular from Ron and Hermione is emotionally passionate arguing...and not so passionate bickering (which Harry and the audience can easily deduce Ron and Hermoine's feelings for each other from).

The films, I think, have actually made Ron & Hermione more "touchy" with each other than we see in the books, so to speak. So in my opinion, they have been creative. Do we really get scenes in the book of Ron lovingly touching Hermione's face or giving her longing stares? Does Hermione hold Ron's hand in the hospital wing (I can't remember)?

As for the perspectives...I don't know. The movies seem to be pretty straight-forward in being from Harry's perspective to me. The only thing that may make it seem "less" of Harry's perspective is that in the books, we are reading his thoughts, which is something we obviously can't do in a movie (since the series doesn't do Harry voice-overs, for instance). And if this has been a conscious effort since COS, I can see it. I can't hardly think of any scenes in the film (apart from the beginning of SS) that aren't through Harry's POV.
I understand that keeping the films in Harry's POV can be viewed as limiting. But on the other hand, we've got to remember that these films are typically 2 1/2 hours long, which is LONG in movie theater world. And there's always so much from the books to try to keep in, and that unfortunately get cut out. Switching POV's for the sake of building romantic moments just is not very practical when there are so many integral key plots to attempt to address, imo.

Well if the movies are from Harry's point of view, why does the H/Hr friendship get more attention and screen time than the Harry/Ron friendship and the H/G relationship combined?
I'm completely with you in regards to H/G. The potrayal of their relationship in the film is quite pathetic. Harry and Ginny's relationship should be built up more, even more than Ron and Hermione's considering Harry is the main character, but this isn't the case. I don't know why--I'm not the director. My only guess is that Harry has far too much more important things to do. The main point of the series isn't realy for Harry to simply fall in love and marry Ginny. It's a minor element in the grand scheme of things. For Ron and Hermione (which I'm assuming we can agree get more attention that Harry/Ginny), it is easier to give them little moments thoughout the film because they are always there--Ginny isn't. It's always been the trio, it never becomes the quartet. So I assume this is why Harry/Ginny suffers, and Ron/Hr gets more chances.

I cannot agree with you about Harry & Ron though, because I think the film does a perfectly fine job with their friendship. I honestly do not see their friendship as weaker than Harry and Hermione's in the films. So many people here express the opinion that Harry and Hermione's relationship gets all the attention and Ron is the tag-along comic relief. But I know people (who don't read the books), who see Harry and Ron as being the best of friends, and Hermione as being the tag-along conveniently smart friend that's there to help them figure out things. :shrug:

For me, Harry overall is most important, and he is just as much Ron's friend and he is Hermione's.


I think what myself and some others are saying is the film makers have shown a general bias towards the H/Hr friendship over the past several films that distorts the importance of that relationship, making it seem more important than Harry's relationship with other characters, and negatively impacts the dynamics between the trio in general (including the R/Hr relationship).
I hear you.
I also think this view has just reached a boiling point mainly due to the dance scene for some reason. :lol:
I simply just don't agree. What I mainly see is that Ron and Hermione's relationship is extremely important to many of you. And that is perfectly fine. But maybe it is because so many feel that there is something left to be desired between Ron and Hermione that frustration just gets taken out on Harry/Hermione scenes.

Well, none of us can control what the directors do, can we?


I hear you.
I also think this view has just reached a boiling point mainly due to the dance scene for some reason. :lol:
I simply just don't agree. What I mainly see is that Ron and Hermione's relationship is extremely important to many of you. And that is perfectly fine. But maybe it is because so many feel that there is something left to be desired between Ron and Hermione that frustration just gets taken out on Harry/Hermione scenes.

Or maybe some people just generally don't like how the Harry/Hermione relationship has been portrayed in the movies. I mean regardless of the other relationships and my disappointment with the Ron/Hermione relationship portrayal, I'm going to generally dislike anything that is shoved down my throat while being told it's perfect. Which is how I view Harry and Hermione in the movies. The ignoring of the other relationships only adds to my dislike of Harry and Hermione in the movies.

Or maybe some people just generally don't like how the Harry/Hermione relationship has been portrayed in the movies. I mean regardless of the other relationships and my disappointment with the Ron/Hermione relationship portrayal, I'm going to generally dislike anything that is shoved down my throat while being told it's perfect. Which is how I view Harry and Hermione in the movies. The ignoring of the other relationships only adds to my dislike of Harry and Hermione in the movies.

No one is saying that it's "perfect" or all right :shrug:

Just that, personally, I find it easier to just accept it as is or move on (as a fan, this is all I can do) instead of arguing about what it should be.

Maybe it's because a long time ago, I started viewing the movies and books separately and on their own merits since it leads to less disappointment. And this way, I can enjoy the movies more.


But as I said before, I understand the frustration with this. Fans shouldn't have to argue about this, but unfortunately, that's how it is.

Or maybe some people just generally don't like how the Harry/Hermione relationship has been portrayed in the movies. I mean regardless of the other relationships and my disappointment with the Ron/Hermione relationship portrayal, I'm going to generally dislike anything that is shoved down my throat while being told it's perfect. Which is how I view Harry and Hermione in the movies. The ignoring of the other relationships only adds to my dislike of Harry and Hermione in the movies.

You just don't like Harry and Hermione in the movies. If that's how you feel, ok. :tu:

No one is saying that it's "perfect" or all right :shrug:

Just that, personally, I find it easier to just accept it as is or move on (as a fan, this is all I can do) instead of arguing about what it should be.

Maybe it's because a long time ago, I started viewing the movies and books separately and on their own merits since it leads to less disappointment. And this way, I can enjoy the movies more.


But as I said before, I understand the frustration with this. Fans shouldn't have to argue about this, but unfortunately, that's how it is.

I mean the movies are telling me how perfect and wonderful their relationship is.


You just don't like Harry and Hermione in the movies. If that's how you feel, ok

Nevermind. I don't want to come off that way. We should probably just agree to disagree.

Sigh. lol I don't what else I can say that I haven't already said. I obviously hated the dance. I didn't like Harry trying to seduce Hermione. I think it does a real disservice to his character. Harry would never go after the girl that his best friend loves. It really made me look at him differently. The dance was a huge mistake IMO. It also makes me doubt even more that Harry even likes Ginny. I also hate that Ron and Hermione don't get scenes anywhere near that intimate. They never get to be alone, and if they actually film scenes with them alone they are cut. It's just super frustrating. That's not to say that they didn't have some nice moments in this movie, but Harry was always there. Even a nice little intimate moment between them after the 7 potters had to turn into a Harry moment.



Just curious...how many people who really HATED the dance and felt the same way you do are of a certain age? I wonder if age tints the lens we look through. For instance, I am older and see nothing that you do of this. No seduction, no 'going after'. I feel comfortable with closeness not meaning sexuality. Is the reaction based on age and experience? I might be wrong...

Just curious...how many people who really HATED the dance and felt the same way you do are of a certain age? I wonder if age tints the lens we look through. For instance, I am older and see nothing that you do of this. No seduction, no 'going after'. I feel comfortable with closeness not meaning sexuality. Is the reaction based on age and experience? I might be wrong...

I guess it could effect how some people look at it. I don't think my age effects my opinion on it though. Especially since the actors and director have confirmed my opinion on it.

I cannot agree with you about Harry & Ron though, because I think the film does a perfectly fine job with their friendship. I honestly do not see their friendship as weaker than Harry and Hermione's in the films.

The films have played up Ron for comic relief (probably in part due to Rupert's excellent comic timing) much more so than JKR ever did in the books, to the detriment of Ron's fiercely loyal side.

Except for PS and DH1, we hardly see this aspect of the Ron/Harry friendship at all. In fact many of Ron's best lines showing that he's willing to lay down his life for Harry have been given to Hermione. This is a fact.

On the other hand, the films tend to smooth over or eliminate all together the friction Harry and Hermione experience in their relationship. They get along on screen far better than they do in the books by a long shot.

The result is an unbalanced and (somewhat inaccurate) view of the trio dynamics, imo.

I hear you.
I also think this view has just reached a boiling point mainly due to the dance scene for some reason. :lol:
I simply just don't agree. What I mainly see is that Ron and Hermione's relationship is extremely important to many of you. And that is perfectly fine. But maybe it is because so many feel that there is something left to be desired between Ron and Hermione that frustration just gets taken out on Harry/Hermione scenes.

I can only speak from my own experience, but ultimately these complaints have less to do with R/Hr's portrayal in the films and more to do with a film bias, imo. A bias which smooths over Hermione's difficulties with Harry making their relationship appear less conflicted that it is in the books. A bias that leads one to believe Ron is less fiercely loyal to Harry than he actually is weakening the strength of their relationship as compared to the books.

That said, I do think DH1 did a fairly good job with the trio dynamics. For the first time since the initial two films, I really felt like the characterizations were much more true to the books. Especially Hermione and Ron's characterizations. There was much more balance this time around. Hopefully this trend will continue in DH2. :tu:

The films have played up Ron for comic relief (probably in part due to Rupert's excellent comic timing) much more so than JKR ever did in the books, to the detriment of Ron's fiercely loyal side.

Except for PS and DH1, we hardly see this aspect of the Ron/Harry friendship at all. In fact many of Ron's best lines showing that he's willing to lay down his life for Harry have been given to Hermione. This is a fact.

On the other hand, the films tend to smooth over or eliminate all together the friction Harry and Hermione experience in their relationship. They get along on screen far better than they do in the books by a long shot.

The result is an unbalanced and (somewhat inaccurate) view of the trio dynamics, imo.

I can only speak from my own experience, but ultimately these complaints have less to do with R/Hr's portrayal in the films and more to do with a film bias, imo. A bias which smooths over Hermione's difficulties with Harry making their relationship appear less conflicted that it is in the books. A bias that leads one to believe Ron is less fiercely loyal to Harry than he actually is weakening the strength of their relationship as compared to the books.


I agree Ron is often used for comic relief, but it doesn't take away from his friendship and loyalty to Harry, imo. I know some of his lines are given to Hermione, which I initially found suspicious. But on the whole, the films seem to simplify, yet exaggerate their personalities. Ron is made into the funny friend and Hermione is made into smart friend (somewhat reducing both of their complexity), but imo, they are both loyal friends nevertheless. Ron's comedic role is exaggerated, just as Hermione's high-strung and emotional side is exaggerated (I find her to be more emotional and tense in the films than in the books). Maybe the limited film time presented problems with showing the complexity they have in the books, so just one main feature is highlighted for each?

Even with Harry's personality, I see tweaks. Film Harry doesn't always have the same fiery attitude that he has in the books, imo.
So all of them are different; but I don't see it as really damaging their status as friends to each other.

I can see what you mean about smoothing over friction between Harry and Hermione. I think this is another simplification the films make. For me, neither the books nor movies show that Harry likes one better than the other. Yet, it stands out to me that though Harry gets highly irritated with Hermione at times, it is he and Ron that have the major fall-outs (GOF and DH). Sure, he was mad at Hermione in POA (book) and HBP over Sirius sending the broom, and the potions book. But those "falling outs" were quite superficial compared to the fights he has with Ron. So in the simplified film terms, Harry and Hermione are shown as getting along fine for the most part. The fights with Ron remain (and I have a feeling people would be quite upset if they were smoothed over), and of course, Harry and Ron always make up and go back to being friends, which I think speaks to their loyalty to each other. So I disagree with Ron not being loyal; I think he is, from the way the movies have chosen to show it, even if he is made out to be funnier. I think an even stronger effort to show his loyalty started in the films in OOTP.


That said, I do think DH1 did a fairly good job with the trio dynamics. For the first time since the initial two films, I really felt like the characterizations were much more true to the books. Especially Hermione and Ron's characterizations. There was much more balance this time around. Hopefully this trend will continue in DH2. :tu:
I do agree with this though. :)
DH was great in showing more complexity in the characters that we get in the books. Maybe the films have gotten closer to the mark because the characters are older now and could stand more complexity (and the actors are older and better able to pull it off).

Ron's comedic role is exaggerated, just as Hermione's high-strung and emotional side is exaggerated (I find her to be more emotional and tense in the films than in the books). Maybe the limited film time presented problems with showing the complexity they have in the books, so just one main feature is highlighted for each?

I agree that characterizations need to be somewhat exaggerated or simplified in films such as these, but it's a matter of degree.

I disagree that limited time kept film makers from showing, for example, a more accurate characterization for Hermione. Her tendency to nag Harry was replaced with a more agreeable nature, her vulnerability hiding behind book knowledge was often replaced with an 'almost' super power girl persona. So time is not really the issue in this case. The film makers (and by extension Emma) could have easily continued the more accurate portrayal of Hermione from the first two films. But it seems they simply chose not to.

Even with Harry's personality, I see tweaks. Film Harry doesn't always have the same fiery attitude that he has in the books, imo. So all of them are different; but I don't see it as really damaging their status as friends to each other.

To be clear, I don't think the changes made to the characterizations damage the trio's basic status as friends. The films make it clear that the trio are close friends and one doesn't get the sense that Harry prefers one more than the other. I'm not so much talking about 'Harry's perception' but the audience perception.

So I disagree with Ron not being loyal; I think he is, from the way the movies have chosen to show it, even if he is made out to be funnier.

Again, I'm not saying the films don't show Ron's loyalty at all, it simply a matter of degree.

To sum up, unnecessary changes were made to Hermione and Ron's characterization even given the time restraints of these types of films, imo. But we will likely need to agree to disagree on this issue. :)

I just found this image, and I can see it's from the scene where Hermione and Ron are sharing the bottle of water, but I was just wondering if anyone knows anything about it?

http://phoenixweasley.files.wordpress.com/2010/06/normal_filmingpart1_28may2010_021.jpg

Do we know if it's going to be a deleted scene? Or if it's just been cut from the movie all together? It looks like a nice scene :)

I just found this image, and I can see it's from the scene where Hermione and Ron are sharing the bottle of water, but I was just wondering if anyone knows anything about it?

http://phoenixweasley.files.wordpress.com/2010/06/normal_filmingpart1_28may2010_021.jpg

Do we know if it's going to be a deleted scene? Or if it's just been cut from the movie all together? It looks like a nice scene :)

It was cut. Can't have too many nice moments with them I guess. I can only laugh at this point. As much as I love the pics we got before the movie, knowing how many Ron/Hermione scenes were cut just makes things worse. There was another moment I was really looking forward to that was cut as well with Hermione sitting on Ron's cot taking care of him after being splinched.

I guess it could effect how some people look at it. I don't think my age effects my opinion on it though. Especially since the actors and director have confirmed my opinion on it.



Just a thought. I do think the actors and directors alluded to it being respectful friendship moment and not one of romance. I know they admit the potential for romance is there, but it that isn't really what it is. Which, again brings it back to the pov of the viewer. What do you want to see? I see friendship. Sadness, comfort. I actually am amazed at how many see it as a potential romantic moment. Sure, it could go that way, anything like that could, but I don't feel that flavor. And I wonder if the lens of experience has anything to with that?

Just a thought. I do think the actors and directors alluded to it being respectful friendship moment and not one of romance. I know they admit the potential for romance is there, but it that isn't really what it is. Which, again brings it back to the pov of the viewer. What do you want to see? I see friendship. Sadness, comfort. I actually am amazed at how many see it as a potential romantic moment. Sure, it could go that way, anything like that could, but I don't feel that flavor. And I wonder if the lens of experience has anything to with that?
The comments made by the actors alluded to more then just a respectful friendship moment. At least IMO.

Dan and Yates said flat out said there was sexual tension there. I certainly didn't want to see that, but that's what was there IMO.



Indeed, so I said. I just think there is a difference between sexual 'tension' and actually saying there is a potential for a true romance. In fact, he says:
find it very tender, very funny, very moving. For me, it’s about them becoming grown-ups, growing up in a very painful way. It was all about the awkwardness of the moment, letting go a little bit. I like the notion that they find comfort in each other when everything seems to be falling apart. It seems like a very natural thing to do — trying to provide warmth for each other as friends. For me, it’s a very special moment in the film – but I know it drives some people nuts It's not unusual in a moment of distress or pain to turn to a close friend. If that friend is of a different gender the POTENTIAL is there. Neither of the two friends succumbed to this. Harry didn't force himself on Hermione. That's why I ask the age question. Because for some people the scope of time has given them this experience. And so, the POV changes somewhat. Which isn't to say your POV is any less or not as significant. Just different points of view.

Indeed, so I said. I just think there is a difference between sexual 'tension' and actually saying there is a potential for a true romance. In fact, he says:
It's not unusual in a moment of distress or pain to turn to a close friend. If that friend is of a different gender the POTENTIAL is there. Neither of the two friends succumbed to this. Harry didn't force himself on Hermione. That's why I ask the age question. Because for some people the scope of time has given them this experience. And so, the POV changes somewhat. Which isn't to say your POV is any less or not as significant. Just different points of view.

Well I don't think anyone has said this at all. I still don't think my age had anything to do with the way I viewed this scene.

I'm tired of talking about this dance though. LOL Hopefully there's not a scene like this in part two that leads to so much "controversy." lol

I'm tired of talking about this dance though. LOL Hopefully there's not a scene like this in part two that leads to so much "controversy." lol

There will probably be a lot of controversy with the scene where Hermione goes to destroy the Hufflepuff cup and smoking imagines of Ron and Harry appear and then they start passionately kissing while naked :lol: