Romantic moments & that scene in Deathly Hallows

There will probably be a lot of controversy with the scene where Hermione goes to destroy the Hufflepuff cup and smoking imagines of Ron and Harry appear and then they start passionately kissing while naked :lol:

Which isn't going to happen so maybe we should just focus on what happens in DH part one.

There will probably be a lot of controversy with the scene where Hermione goes to destroy the Hufflepuff cup and smoking imagines of Ron and Harry appear and then they start passionately kissing while naked :lol:

:lol:
I must admit, I keep wondering if it had been Hermione who walked out on Ron and Harry, and Ron and Harry were stuck in a tent, and Harry started acting goofy to cheer up Ron, would there be such outrage?

Indeed, so I said. I just think there is a difference between sexual 'tension' and actually saying there is a potential for a true romance.
I agree.

And even with the director's comments, I don't think that their opinion necessarily must be taken as the absolute truth. If their intention was to create a scene that showed a mere possiblity, the key is that the scene was done in an ambiguous way to keep it at just that--a possibility, showing potential for "romance", not that it is absolutely there. And because possiblities and potentials are not truths, there's always an equal flip-side that says while there's a possiblity that it's there, there's also the possibility that it isn't there.

I hope that made sense. It's hard to describe, lol. But it all depends on how you view it (or how you want to view it).

:lol:
I must admit, I keep wondering if it had been Hermione who walked out on Ron and Harry, and Ron and Harry were stuck in a tent, and Harry started acting goofy to cheer up Ron, would there be such outrage?
I guess not. Since I doubt there would be physical contact involved and the director and producers wouldn't go out of their way to talk about how "tender" that scene was. :lol:

And even with the director's comments, I don't think that their opinion necessarily must be taken as the absolute truth. If their intention was to create a scene that showed a mere possiblity, the key is that the scene was done in an ambiguous way to keep it at just that--a possibility, showing potential for "romance", not that it is absolutely there. And because possiblities and potentials are not truths, there's always an equal flip-side that says while there's a possiblity that it's there, there's also the possibility that it isn't there.Well, I personally think it's made very clear, if by Hermione's reaction in the end alone, that the possibility isn't there. So, what I said all along, the scene was absolutely gratuitous and I try not to think of other scenes that got cut instead (i.e. Harry/Dudders good-bye, Harry finding Lily's letter in GP #12, a proper explanation for the mirror shard - okay, I'm going to stop now ;) )

That being said, to end this on a positive note, I think they really did a phantastic job with Ron and Hermione in DH1. There were so many beautiful, sweet and lovely scenes, I can't even say which is my favourite. Although the cheek brushing in the café with Ron reassuring Hermione that she's the best at spells is quite high up on my list.

I guess not. Since I doubt there would be physical contact involved and the director and producers wouldn't go out of their way to talk about how "tender" that scene was. :lol:

Well, I personally think it's made very clear, if by Hermione's reaction in the end alone, that the possibility isn't there. So, what I said all along, the scene was absolutely gratuitous and I try not to think of other scenes that got cut instead (i.e. Harry/Dudders good-bye, Harry finding Lily's letter in GP #12, a proper explanation for the mirror shard - okay, I'm going to stop now ;) )

That being said, to end this on a positive note, I think they really did a phantastic job with Ron and Hermione in DH1. There were so many beautiful, sweet and lovely scenes, I can't even say which is my favourite. Although the cheek brushing in the café with Ron reassuring Hermione that she's the best at spells is quite high up on my list.

That scene was so quick, but so meaningful to me. It showed how much Ron had matured in terms of his feelings for Hermione. In the book he was very touchy feely with her, and this was a good example of that.

I know I said I was tired of talking about the dance, but I was thinking about the skipping stones scene that was cut, and I was wondering if that scene had not been cut, would the dance scene have been that big a deal. That scene would have provided good balance to the dance, so it would have been interesting to see the reactions if that scene had been included. Might not have made a difference, but it could have.

That scene was so quick, but so meaningful to me. It showed how much Ron had matured in terms of his feelings for Hermione. In the book he was very touchy feely with her, and this was a good example of that.

I know I said I was tired of talking about the dance, but I was thinking about the skipping stones scene that was cut, and I was wondering if that scene had not been cut, would the dance scene have been that big a deal. That scene would have provided good balance to the dance, so it would have been interesting to see the reactions if that scene had been included. Might not have made a difference, but it could have.

It would've made a huge difference. HUGE.

Their relationship is built on twigs. Why not give them at least a stick to stand on when it comes to why they're together.

Putting that scene in means that when we look at the dancing scene, we can look at it unquestioningly as purely platonic. Without it were left with some very strange emotions that I hope are not intended by the director.

It would've made a huge difference. HUGE.

Their relationship is built on twigs. Why not give them at least a stick to stand on when it comes to why they're together.

Putting that scene in means that when we look at the dancing scene, we can look at it unquestioningly as purely platonic. Without it were left with some very strange emotions that I hope are not intended by the director.

Well I wouldn't say the relationship is built on twigs. I certainly have my complaints about it, but I think I do view it a little differently then you.

However, the stones scene would have definitely been the most intimate scene, other then them falling asleep holding hands that we have got between them, so I do agree that it would have made a huge difference.

:lol:
I must admit, I keep wondering if it had been Hermione who walked out on Ron and Harry, and Ron and Harry were stuck in a tent, and Harry started acting goofy to cheer up Ron, would there be such outrage?


I agree.

And even with the director's comments, I don't think that their opinion necessarily must be taken as the absolute truth. If their intention was to create a scene that showed a mere possiblity, the key is that the scene was done in an ambiguous way to keep it at just that--a possibility, showing potential for "romance", not that it is absolutely there. And because possiblities and potentials are not truths, there's always an equal flip-side that says while there's a possiblity that it's there, there's also the possibility that it isn't there.

I hope that made sense. It's hard to describe, lol. But it all depends on how you view it (or how you want to view it).


I think you did very well explaining that PotterGurl. Thank you. In my experience sexual tension can appear at any time between people even when unwanted or unintended, it's how we respond to these moments and if we recognize what's happening and what we should do next that matters. I guess thinking that a trio who have spend so much of their lives together, especially alone with each other that inevitably feelings would at least need to sort themselves out even if everyone feels that they are sure what page they are on. I loved the dance scene, because for me it wasn't romantic or tension filled, it was bitter sweet and sad and tender. And I would have loved to ALSO have seen a more pure moment of the skipping rocks scene with Ron and Hermione.
To be truthful, one scene I could have lived without might have been the Cinema scene (they are outside it walking) where they use expository lines to catch the viewer up: Hermione bemoaning the lost opportunity to give Harry his cake and so on. I felt it would have been more genuine if there would have just been a cake in the house around the time Scrimegour came, or when Ginny wants a zip up, to show they were recognizing it with some comment about now he is of age. That might have felt more honest to me than the inserted lines to keep me up to date with the script.
But, that's just me.

And I would have loved to ALSO have seen a more pure moment of the skipping rocks scene with Ron and Hermione.

The more I think about that moment, the more bitter I become that they cut it. lol. I think it makes me more upset then the dance.

It would've made a huge difference. HUGE.

Their relationship is built on twigs. Why not give them at least a stick to stand on when it comes to why they're together.

Putting that scene in means that when we look at the dancing scene, we can look at it unquestioningly as purely platonic. Without it were left with some very strange emotions that I hope are not intended by the director.

It would have been nice to have that scene in, but in my opinion it wouldn't have mattered that much.

In addition to the many little scenes in DH1, there's evidence as far back as the COS movie that Hermione likes Ron when she holds back from hugging him, and Ron's voice catches with emotion when they decide on shaking hands instead. There are quite a few scenes that show Ron & Hermione have feelings for each other in the POA, GOF & HBP movies as well. Personally, I don't see how a movie watcher, even without reading the books, could possibly miss those clues.

Maybe the skipping stones scene just didn't flow well wherever they tried to put it in the movie. But I think there are enough well done scenes so it's evident that Ron & Hermione are romantically linked.

Maybe the skipping stones scene just didn't flow well wherever they tried to put it in the movie. But I think there are enough well done scenes so it's evident that Ron & Hermione are romantically linked.


I guess its just hard not to notice that there were quite a few Ron/Hermione scenes cut while it doesn't seem like any Harry/Hermione ones were. It's just frustrating that they cut pretty much every scene they had alone.

I guess its just hard not to notice that there were quite a few Ron/Hermione scenes cut while it doesn't seem like any Harry/Hermione ones were. It's just frustrating that they cut pretty much every scene they had alone.

Sorry, but what other R/Hr scenes were cut?

It would have been nice to have that scene in, but in my opinion it wouldn't have mattered that much.

In addition to the many little scenes in DH1, there's evidence as far back as the COS movie that Hermione likes Ron when she holds back from hugging him, and Ron's voice catches with emotion when they decide on shaking hands instead. There are quite a few scenes that show Ron & Hermione have feelings for each other in the POA, GOF & HBP movies as well. Personally, I don't see how a movie watcher, even without reading the books, could possibly miss those clues.

Maybe the skipping stones scene just didn't flow well wherever they tried to put it in the movie. But I think there are enough well done scenes so it's evident that Ron & Hermione are romantically linked.

It's not hard to see that they like each other. It would be nice to know why though.

Sorry, but what other R/Hr scenes were cut?

There was a scene of Hermione sitting on Ron's cot with him and taking care of him after his splinching. There was also a scene of them in the field with her fixing his sling where they are standing pretty close. Some of their wedding stuff was cut as well.

There was a scene of Hermione sitting on Ron's cot with him and taking care of him after his splinching. There was also a scene of them in the field with her fixing his sling where they are standing pretty close. Some of their wedding stuff was cut as well.

Seriously huh, like I know the film was long, but exactly how much time were they saving?

There must be something else to all of this.

I think that this film could've easily been 3 hours with all the cut scenes. I would've had no objections to sitting there for an extra half hour.

Seriously huh, like I know the film was long, but exactly how much time were they saving?

There must be something else to all of this.

It wasn't even that long. Like Magic_is_might said, it could have easily been 3 hours and I doubt anyone would have complained.

I know Yates claims that the scene didn't fit the tone of the movie, but the more I think about it, the less I buy it. There have been so many Ron/Hermione scenes cut in these movies, that its just a little wierd to me.

I can only imagine that they didn't want the skipping stones scene to somehow outshine the dance scene of their golden couple.

It wasn't even that long. Like Magic_is_might said, it could have easily been 3 hours and I doubt anyone would have complained.

Really? Because a lot of film critics and non-readers complained about the film length. I'd love to have the full movie as well, but at some point I have to accept that this is an adaptation, and that filmmakers want to make money, and that they will cut things if they believe it will improve their profit margins.

Really? Because a lot of film critics and non-readers complained about the film length. I'd love to have the full movie as well, but at some point I have to accept that this is an adaptation, and that filmmakers want to make money, and that they will cut things if they believe it will improve their profit margins.

Well I don't see how cutting this one scene or a scene like Harry/Dudley improves their profit margin. Making the film even 10 minutes longer would not have been noticed by viewers.

Yeah, even an extra 10 minutes would've been really nice, and 10 minutes isn't really a huge extra chunk of time.

It wasn't even that long. Like Magic_is_might said, it could have easily been 3 hours and I doubt anyone would have complained.

I know Yates claims that the scene didn't fit the tone of the movie, but the more I think about it, the less I buy it. There have been so many Ron/Hermione scenes cut in these movies, that its just a little wierd to me.

I can only imagine that they didn't want the skipping stones scene to somehow outshine the dance scene of their golden couple.

Or maybe he didn't want Ron to appear to be happy in one scene then angry and leaving all of a sudden in the next.

Or maybe he didn't want Ron to appear to be happy in one scene then angry and leaving all of a sudden in the next.

That sounds reasonable.

Or maybe he didn't want Ron to appear to be happy in one scene then angry and leaving all of a sudden in the next.

This is the most likely reason as to why it was cut. It would've been a lovely scene, I'm sure, and I look forward to seeing it, but it simply would not fit well into the movie.

It was supposed to be put in right before he leaves, but it wouldn't make sense as to why Ron and Hermione are having a touching moment together and seem happy, then for him to get angry and leave. After all the buildup for Ron and his frustration, putting a touching scene in before he leaves would ruin it.

I'm not saying it shouldn't be in there at all, since I really would love to see this scene.

Or maybe he didn't want Ron to appear to be happy in one scene then angry and leaving all of a sudden in the next.

Those scene didn't have to appear right after each other. I mean I'm pretty sure they could have made it realistic enough to include that scene. It is what they get paid to do. It's not like they didn't know Ron's story when they shot these scnees, so why even film that scene to begin with. There were other scenes and moments that didn't fit the tone of the film IMO, and yet they are still there. I stand by what I said. Can't have Ron and Hermione outshining the bestest relationship ever.


It was supposed to be put in right before he leaves, but it wouldn't make sense as to why Ron and Hermione are having a touching moment together and seem happy, then for him to get angry and leave. After all the buildup for Ron and his frustration, putting a touching scene in before he leaves would ruin it.


Or you could argue that this touching moment would have given Ron some hope, and then when he sees Harry and Hermione together again, it would have just made it worse because what he thought was a great moment with them, he would have seen as not meaning anything to Hermione.

Can't have Ron and Hermione outshining the bestest relationship ever.

:rolleyes:

I guess we're just going to have to agree to disagree.

Those scene didn't have to appear right after each other. I mean I'm pretty sure they could have made it realistic enough to include that scene. It is what they get paid to do. It's not like they didn't know Ron's story when they shot these scnees, so why even film that scene to begin with. There were other scenes and moments that didn't fit the tone of the film IMO, and yet they are still there. I stand by what I said. Can't have Ron and Hermione outshining the bestest relationship ever.


The scenes would have been very close, if not right next to each other. The lake scene happened the day Ron leaves (wearing the same clothes and it's the same location).

This fits Yates's comment about it not fitting the tone.

The scenes would have been very close, if not right next to each other. The lake scene happened the day Ron leaves (wearing the same clothes and it's the same location).

This fits Yates's comment about it not fitting the tone.

I know it would have been close, but I would hope that they would be creative enough to be able to fit a scene like that in. If they aren't, then again I ask, why even film it to begin with.

The same reason they film other cut scenes. They don't know how it's going to look in the end and in context of the rest of the movie.

The same reason they film other cut scenes. They don't know how it's going to look in the end and in context of the rest of the movie.

Exactly.

And I'm sure they have a tough time figuring out what will get cut and what will stay--with much consideration to what is necessary to advance the plot. Ultimately, Harry shaking Dudley's hand and Ron & Hermione skipping stones is insignificant to the overall plot. They were simply nice scenes that die-hard fans would probably like to see, and thus, can watch on the DVD.

It makes me think of how in HBP, I was absolutely livid that Dumbledore's line, "I'm not worried, Harry. I'm with you" was cut. It was such a special moment in the book, for me. But in the grand scheme of things, I guess it just wasn't essential for the movie.

Of course, sometimes glaring errors are made in regards to what gets cut (the absense of Lily in Snape's worst memory comes to mind). But R&H skipping stones and a handshake with Dudley are hardly significant, imo.

Exactly.

And I'm sure they have a tough time figuring out what will get cut and what will stay--with much consideration to what is necessary to advance the plot. Ultimately, Harry shaking Dudley's hand and Ron & Hermione skipping stones is insignificant to the overall plot. They were simply nice scenes that die-hard fans would probably like to see, and thus, can watch on the DVD.

It makes me think of how in HBP, I was absolutely livid that Dumbledore's line, "I'm not worried, Harry. I'm with you" was cut. It was such a special moment in the book, for me. But in the grand scheme of things, I guess it just wasn't essential for the movie.

Of course, sometimes glaring errors are made in regards to what gets cut (the absense of Lily in Snape's worst memory comes to mind). But R&H skipping stones and a handshake with Dudley are hardly significant, imo.


That dance is totally insignificant to the plot as well, and yet they wouldn't dare cut that. I don't buy for one second that the stones scene didn't fit the tone of the movie. we've argued this to death though, and I don't think we are ever going to agree. lol

That dance is totally insignificant to the plot as well, and yet they wouldn't dare cut that. I don't buy for one second that the stones scene didn't fit the tone of the movie. we've argued this to death though, and I don't think we are ever going to agree. lol

Why don't you buy it? Things get cut all the time for that exact reason.

Maybe the dance ended up being a more touching scene than the stone scene and that's why it wasn't cut. Neither of us have seen the scene, so we can't judge.

That dance is totally insignificant to the plot as well, and yet they wouldn't dare cut that. I don't buy for one second that the stones scene didn't fit the tone of the movie. we've argued this to death though, and I don't think we are ever going to agree. lol

I knew that argument was coming.
Yes, the dance was insignificant to the plot. But to me, it made a bit more sense to include simply because we do have a significant portion of the movie with just Harry and Hermione that couldn't be cut if they were to stay true to the book. It would have gotten a bit boring (for average movie audiences) to have several scenes of Harry and Hermione just sitting around doing nothing. In the book, we have the advantage of reading Harry's thoughts to carry readers through this, an aspect that we don't have in the movie. Thus, the dance scene broke up the monotony on-screen, lightened the mood for a bit (gave people a reason to laugh at Harry's dancing), among other things that have been beaten to death in this thread.

I think we agree that we'll never agree, lol.

Why don't you buy it? Things get cut all the time for that exact reason.

Maybe the dance ended up being a more touching scene than the stone scene and that's why it wasn't cut. Neither of us have seen the scene, so we can't judge.

Yes, I think it's good to keep in mind that we haven't seen the scene. It could be dreadful for all we know, lol.

Another suspicion I have...
I saw plenty of Ron/Hermione moments in the film as is. Maybe there was a fear of over-kill? Everyone watching the movie knows Ron & Hermione like each other. It's very obvious, even though romance is not the main aim of the films.
Also, it has to be remembered the main concern at the moment is figuring out how to destroy horcruxes. The trio are worried sick. Maybe it just didn't look right for Ron & Hermione to sneak off for a romantic/flirtatious moment, when there are bigger fish to fry. I can understand if the scene didn't fit the overall tone of the movie--all three of them are worried about Voldemort, so too much Ron & Hermione flirtation could have appeared to belittle their reason for going along with Harry.

Those scene didn't have to appear right after each other. I mean I'm pretty sure they could have made it realistic enough to include that scene. It is what they get paid to do. It's not like they didn't know Ron's story when they shot these scnees, so why even film that scene to begin with. There were other scenes and moments that didn't fit the tone of the film IMO, and yet they are still there. I stand by what I said. Can't have Ron and Hermione outshining the bestest relationship ever.




Or you could argue that this touching moment would have given Ron some hope, and then when he sees Harry and Hermione together again, it would have just made it worse because what he thought was a great moment with them, he would have seen as not meaning anything to Hermione.

Perhaps because it might be misconstrued by a viewer less versed in the books? It might be confusing and make Hermione seem a bit floozy, jumping between the boys. It might have required more screen time as in another scene to make clear?

Personally, I'm glad the film wasn't longer to include more scenes that some of us fans deem absolutely necessary. I thought at times they were too close to the source material for a good adaptation. As to Harry and Hermione's dance scene, I thought it was sweet and painted Harry in a much more positive light than in the book, where he just ignored Hermione's obvious distress. It was a scene underlining friendship not romance, in my view.

Personally, I'm glad the film wasn't longer to include more scenes that some of us fans deem absolutely necessary. I thought at times they were too close to the source material for a good adaptation. As to Harry and Hermione's dance scene, I thought it was sweet and painted Harry in a much more positive light than in the book, where he just ignored Hermione's obvious distress. It was a scene underlining friendship not romance, in my view.

Which is another reason i am not a fan of the scene as it was quite out of character for Harry to do something like that.

Which is another reason i am not a fan of the scene as it was quite out of character for Harry to do something like that.

JKR knows her characters better than anyone, so I'm certainly not going to say that they way Jo wrote Harry in DH was wrong.

But I won't pretend that I wasn't a bit disappointed with how Harry acted in the book toward Hermione. Maybe that's why I don't hate this scene :shrug:

I quite liked the scene of Harry & Hermione dancing.
It made me feel really warm-hearted and showed a strong bond between them. It was a rough time and that scene just made them look unstoppable.

From what I had seen in the movie, I could easily see that the Trio's quest for the horcruxes and their evasion from the Deatheaters started to take its toll the moment Ron suffered his injury during their escape from the Ministry of Magic. And through the montages (for which I am utterly grateful), their isolation, fear and anxiety over the fates of loved ones) made it worse . . . especially for Ron, who had a family to worry about. It all spilled out right before Ron left. And after he left, both Harry and Hermione's brooding grew worse. Especially Hermione's. It seemed apparent to me that Harry noticed her wearing the locket and took the opportunity of the song to cheer her up with a dance. He was being a good friend.

Perhaps because it might be misconstrued by a viewer less versed in the books? It might be confusing and make Hermione seem a bit floozy, jumping between the boys. It might have required more screen time as in another scene to make clear?


So in order for her not to seem floozy, which I don't think she would have, they chose to keep in an intimate scene with the guy she's not in love with, and give her zero intimate alone scenes with the guy she is in love with. That doesn't make any sense to me.

I just really think they dropped the ball with Ron and Hermione by cutting this scene.

And if the dance scene was more touching then the stone scene, then that just proves my point that Harry and Hermione are more important to the filmmakers then Ron/Hermione and Harry/Ginny.

I also think that Harry was very much in character in the book by ignoring Hermione. He never knew how to handle situations like that.

Or maybe he didn't want Ron to appear to be happy in one scene then angry and leaving all of a sudden in the next.

This is what I thought when watching the film for a second time, the stone skimming scene would have been really close to when Ron leaves and would have made his mood change seem out of place, considering they'd cut out other bits where Ron's mood comes through (the scene with them in the grass where originally there was some sort of confrontation which was cut) I've never had a problem with there being a lack of Ron/Hermione moments, there seemed like more than enough to me :)

So in order for her not to seem floozy, which I don't think she would have, they chose to keep in an intimate scene with the guy she's not in love with, and give her zero intimate alone scenes with the guy she is in love with. That doesn't make any sense to me.

I just really think they dropped the ball with Ron and Hermione by cutting this scene.

And if the dance scene was more touching then the stone scene, then that just proves my point that Harry and Hermione are more important to the filmmakers then Ron/Hermione and Harry/Ginny.

I also think that Harry was very much in character in the book by ignoring Hermione. He never knew how to handle situations like that.



I don't disagree with you. Somehow I just feel like THEY, the directors/producers have some sort of notion for why this should be so....I wouldn't have minded the stone skipping scene. I also might have though to cut something else if it was a time issue. The tent raising scene for instance? I'd rather see Ron and Hermione's moment.

Can't have Ron and Hermione outshining the bestest relationship ever.
As far as I am concerned, Ron/Hermione is the bestest (romantic) relationship and their scenes certainly outshone any H/Hr scenes in this or the other movies, IMO. I mean just because certain parts of the media, obviously influenced by Yates comments, highligh the scene that should not be named, doesn't mean it's better than the R/Hr scenes. R/Hr just outbeat Edward/Bella in a poll on Best Movie Romance 2010 Poll (http://www.buzzsugar.com/Harry-Potters-Ron-Hermione-Chosen-Best-Movie-Romance-2010-12657712)

I personally don't mind much that the stone skipping scene has been cut. As long as it ends up on the DVD that is. I WANT to see it eventually. I would have loved it had they included it in the movie, and I think they could have, but it's not a major issue to me that they haven't.

As far as I am concerned, Ron/Hermione is the bestest (romantic) relationship and their scenes certainly outshone any H/Hr scenes in this or the other movies, IMO. I mean just because certain parts of the media, obviously influenced by Yates comments, highligh the scene that should not be named, doesn't mean it's better than the R/Hr scenes. R/Hr just outbeat Edward/Bella in a poll on Best Movie Romance 2010 Poll (http://www.buzzsugar.com/Harry-Potters-Ron-Hermione-Chosen-Best-Movie-Romance-2010-12657712)

I personally don't mind much that the stone skipping scene has been cut. As long as it ends up on the DVD that is. I WANT to see it eventually. I would have loved it had they included it in the movie, and I think they could have, but it's not a major issue to me that they haven't.

Well I was being sarcastic with that comment, but it's clearly what the filmmakers and the WB think. All you have to do is watch the new tv spot for part one. It's all about spending the holidays with the one you love, and shocking it's all about Harry and Hermione. Sometimes I don't even know why I bother with these movies. I think I'd be better off just sticking to the books sometimes.

So in order for her not to seem floozy, which I don't think she would have, they chose to keep in an intimate scene with the guy she's not in love with, and give her zero intimate alone scenes with the guy she is in love with. That doesn't make any sense to me.

I just really think they dropped the ball with Ron and Hermione by cutting this scene.

And if the dance scene was more touching then the stone scene, then that just proves my point that Harry and Hermione are more important to the filmmakers then Ron/Hermione and Harry/Ginny.

I also think that Harry was very much in character in the book by ignoring Hermione. He never knew how to handle situations like that.

I don't think the film makers are playing favorites. Films are never going to be exactly like the books. The books let us in on Harry's thoughts, and we see that he's very aware of Hermione's being upset about Ron, how he's careful not to mention his name or any of the Weasleys; and he really wishes there was something he could do to make her feel better, but knows he can't -- Harry's upset about Ron leaving as well, he's in a similar situation. The dance scene was just a way to show that Harry was concerned about Hermione and her feelings....and as the film can't show us his thoughts, this was the way they did it.

Also, I dislike the use of the word "ignore" to describe Harry's silence. That word implies a deliberate dismissive action. Harry simply didn't know what to do -- he couldn't bring Ron back, he couldn't explain Ron's actions, and nothing else would have helped Hermione after Ron first left.

I don't think the film makers are playing favorites.

We'll just have to agree to disagree on that one because nothing will ever convince me that Harry and Hermione are not who the filmmakers think should be together.

Sometimes I don't even know why I bother with these movies. I think I'd be better off just sticking to the books sometimes.

The romance is not the main part of the books or the movies. I don't see why one would just stop watching the movies over one subplot.

The romance is not the main part of the books or the movies. I don't see why one would just stop watching the movies over one subplot.

:agree:

Sure, the romance subplots are fun to read/watch/discuss, but they seriously are not important in the overall plot of the books or films.
The film (DH) finally did such a good job sticking to the important parts of the plot, that making a fuss over the secondary romance subplots is just making a mountain out of a mole-hill, lol.

I think they gave Ron/Hermione fans enough moments between them in DH: part 1, quite honestly. I mean, they did have to actually tell about Harry and his quest.

But from the first moments of the film till the end there were moments: Hermione running to Ron, Ron looking at Hermione at the wedding, them running towards each other after the attack on the wedding, Hermione and the "tone of surprise" comment, Ron brushing Hermione's cheek, Piano playing, Hermione holding back Ron after kreacher offends her, hermione's reaction to ron kissing mary, ron's splinching, hermione defending ron's radio playing to harry, hermione upset when ron leaves, hermione crying on the rocks, hermione depressed after the infamous dance, the horocrux scene, ron's speech, hermione's reaction to the speech, ron trying to suck up to hermione, the boyfriend comment from the snatcher, hermione telling the snatchers not to hurt ron, ron disarming bellatrix, hermione running into ron's arms, ron not letting go of hermione at shell cottage, hermione putting her head on ron's shoulder at dobby's funeral.

i mean, there are a lot of moments...

Well I was being sarcastic with that comment, but it's clearly what the filmmakers and the WB think. All you have to do is watch the new tv spot for part one. It's all about spending the holidays with the one you love, and shocking it's all about Harry and Hermione.

I agree Erin. The film makers have been biased towards the H/Hr friendship since PoA. It's obvious, imo. The new TV spot (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6vXOZbzBYY&feature=player_embedded) is practically blatant in it's bias. They're not even trying to hide it, lol. :lol:

That said, I have enjoyed R/Hr in the films in general and thought the film makers did a very good job with R/Hr (and the trio) in DH1. Really looking forward to DH2!

The scene was cringe worthy, as dan rad can't dance (or act), the music choice was fantastic though.

The scene wasn't meant to be romantic, he was just trying to cheer his friend up, that's the way I saw it atleast.

I agree Erin. The film makers have been biased towards the H/Hr friendship since PoA. It's obvious, imo. The new TV spot (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6vXOZbzBYY&feature=player_embedded) is practically blatant in it's bias. They're not even trying to hide it, lol. :lol:

That said, I have enjoyed R/Hr in the films in general and thought the film makers did a very good job with R/Hr (and the trio) in DH1. Really looking forward to DH2!



The TV spot is ridiculous. Once again Ron doesn't even exist and Harry and Hermione are in love according to it. I guess all I can do is laugh now. At least they aren't trying to hide it anymore.

but they seriously are not important in the overall plot of the books or films

I disagree. I think the romances and the relationships between the characters are very important to the plots, and it would be nice if they were portrayed correctly.

I agree Erin. The film makers have been biased towards the H/Hr friendship since PoA. It's obvious, imo. The new TV spot (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6vXOZbzBYY&feature=player_embedded) is practically blatant in it's bias. They're not even trying to hide it, lol. :lol:

That said, I have enjoyed R/Hr in the films in general and thought the film makers did a very good job with R/Hr (and the trio) in DH1. Really looking forward to DH2!

I just watched that.... WOW. I mean W O W!!!!!! That is so blatant and ridiculous and frankly stupid on the part of Warner Bros. Unreal. You market the couple that is, not the one you want. Good grief. I am going to go imagine a world where everything goes my way concerning this franchise.

Let's word critiques constructive, please. Thanks!

I just watched that.... WOW. I mean W O W!!!!!! That is so blatant and ridiculous and frankly stupid on the part of Warner Bros. Unreal. You market the couple that is, not the one you want. Good grief. I am going to go imagine a world where everything goes my way concerning this franchise.
I see that advertisement in a different light. They love each other, of course, but as friends, which is demonstrated throughout the entire series. The ad is also about Christmas, and only Harry and Hermione are together during that part of the film.

Is this the Christmas ad for DH 1 we're talking about? I felt it was nothing more than advertising that Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows Part 1 is a good movie to watch during the Christmas holidays. Oh and Merry Christmas.

I also thought it was advertising Christmas.

I see that advertisement in a different light. They love each other, of course, but as friends, which is demonstrated throughout the entire series.

I agree, but to non book readers and casual film viewers that short strongly implies it's Harry and Hermione who are the romantic couple, not Ron and Hermione or Harry and Ginny. . . That's where the problem lies, imo.

The ad is also about Christmas, and only Harry and Hermione are together during that part of the film.

Yes, I can understand including the shots of Harry and Hermione in Godric's Hollow and the voice over of Harry at the end because of the direct references to Christmas.

But the rest of the shots have nothing to do with Christmas at all. They are simply encouraging the audience to 'spend time with someone you love and go see the new HP movie'. Yet all the scenes of being with "someone you love" are Harry and Hermione. It's misleading in the most basic sense.

I agree, but to non book readers and casual film viewers that short strongly implies it's Harry and Hermione who are the romantic couple, not Ron and Hermione or Harry and Ginny. . . That's where the problem lies, imo.


True :( But unfortunately, all we fans can do is try to assuage those misconceptions with canon facts, despite what others believe and think. But if non-readers (or even readers) feel that they're are promoting H/Hr in the movies, then that's what they'll believe no matter what others say.

But in the end, we all know it'll be Ginny Potter and Hermione Weasley.

It's a shame that we even have to be discussing movie canon ships versus actual book canon ships. It shouldn't be like that. But it is :shrug: Not to mention that there are plenty R/Hr moments in this film that no non-reader should ignore or forget about because of a 2 minute scene.

But the rest of the shots have nothing to do with Christmas at all. They are simply encouraging the audience to 'spend time with someone you love and go see the new HP movie'. Yet all the scenes of being with "someone you love" are Harry and Hermione. It's misleading in the most basic sense.

Voldemort's "Join us" or something to that effect says otherwise and so does Luna and that strange man.

The scene was cringe worthy, as dan rad can't dance (or act), the music choice was fantastic though.

The scene wasn't meant to be romantic, he was just trying to cheer his friend up, that's the way I saw it atleast.



I think his two left feet were adorable.

I agree, but to non book readers and casual film viewers that short strongly implies it's Harry and Hermione who are the romantic couple, not Ron and Hermione or Harry and Ginny. . . That's where the problem lies, imo.

Yes, I can understand including the shots of Harry and Hermione in Godric's Hollow and the voice over of Harry at the end because of the direct references to Christmas.

Yet all the scenes of being with "someone you love" are Harry and Hermione. It's misleading in the most basic sense.

I politely disagree that it's misleading. No offence but I think you're underestimating the casual film viewers. Most people that I know (my family, my friends and other people i've met) have never read the books and have no idea what will happen in the end, but all said that it's been R/Hr since POA/GOF (and most thought that the H/Hr dance was purely platonic).

In regards to the "someone you love" quote, it doesn't just mean spending Christmas with someone you love romantically ;)

Voldemort's "Join us" or something to that effect says otherwise

I thought that part was hilarious! :rotfl:

For some it seems, there is nearly a panic that perhaps R/Hr WONT get together. Sorry, but wouldn't that be a hair raiser? Really, in the books they don't really, formally form a bond as a couple till after the Manor. So, even though the dance scene exists, it didn't TAKE anything from the two a a couple who are meant to be.

We'll just have to agree to disagree on that one because nothing will ever convince me that Harry and Hermione are not who the filmmakers think should be together.

Well, as TLFL22 points out, there are a lot of Ron/Hermione moments in the film, some of which are:

But from the first moments of the film till the end there were moments: Hermione running to Ron, Ron looking at Hermione at the wedding, them running towards each other after the attack on the wedding, Hermione and the "tone of surprise" comment, Ron brushing Hermione's cheek, Piano playing, Hermione holding back Ron after kreacher offends her, hermione's reaction to ron kissing mary, ron's splinching, hermione defending ron's radio playing to harry, hermione upset when ron leaves, hermione crying on the rocks, hermione depressed after the infamous dance, the horcrux scene, ron's speech, hermione's reaction to the speech, ron trying to suck up to hermione, the boyfriend comment from the snatcher, hermione telling the snatchers not to hurt ron, ron disarming bellatrix, hermione running into ron's arms, ron not letting go of hermione at shell cottage, hermione putting her head on ron's shoulder at dobby's funeral.

Well, as TLFL22 points out, there are a lot of Ron/Hermione moments in the film, some of which are:

The problem is that the movies cut 3 big moments for Ron and Hermione relationship that i felt were important to showing what their relationship was really like.

1. Harry not telling Ron that he sees Hermione like a sister.

2. Ron not begging Bellatrix to take him instead of Hermione

3. Ron being completely unable to control himself as he hears Hermione being tortured.

The dance scene wouldn't have even bothered me so much if these scenes were included in the movie. Harry telling Ron that he sees Hermione as a sister would show Ron that what he saw was only in his head and not real. The Ron begging Bellatrix moment would have shown Ron's love for Hermione as he would rather die (or at least suffer extreme pain) himself than see Hermione die and him not being able to control himself as Hermione got tortured shows a direct comparison between Ron's and Harry's reactions as Ron is clearly a lot more distressed due to his deeper feelings for Hermione.

It also won't make sense in DHP2 when Hermione forgives Ron as in the books she forgave him because he wanted to Bellatrix to torture him and she also heard Ron screaming her name as she was being tortured and this told Hermione how much Ron cared for her and the lengths he was willing to go to keep her safe. In the movie this did not happen and as a result i don't see why movie Hermione is going to forgive movie Ron for leaving when movie Ron hasn't done anything that would warrant that forgiveness.

Well, as TLFL22 points out, there are a lot of Ron/Hermione moments in the film, some of which are:

I'm aware of the Ron/Hermione moments. Those moments still don't change my opinion that Harry and Hermione is who the filmmakers deem more important and who they really believe should be together. The moments are nice, but they are really nothing compared to the intimate moments that Harry and Hermione have gotten. In fact the WB loves them so much they devoted a whole Holiday promo to them and their love.


It also won't make sense in DHP2 when Hermione forgives Ron as in the books she forgave him because he wanted to Bellatrix to torture him and she also heard Ron screaming her name as she was being tortured and this told Hermione how much Ron cared for her and the lengths he was willing to go to keep her safe. In the movie this did not happen and as a result i don't see why movie Hermione is going to forgive movie Ron for leaving when movie Ron hasn't done anything that would warrant that forgiveness

This I disagree with. I was never under the impression that she simply forgave him just because of the malfoy manor scene. It was just a gradual thing. In fact in part one she was trying to protect him before they went to Malfoy Manor. He saved her in the movie too, so I think it will make perfect sense that she's not mad at him anymore.

I politely disagree that it's misleading. No offence but I think you're underestimating the casual film viewers. Most people that I know (my family, my friends and other people i've met) have never read the books and have no idea what will happen in the end, but all said that it's been R/Hr since POA/GOF (and most thought that the H/Hr dance was purely platonic).

I think most people (even casual viewers) know that Ron and Hermione will end up together. I think the films have been clear about that.

The confusion I've encountered both in reviews and with people I've spoken with is whether Harry and Hermione could have 'something' potentially happen between them as well. I believe the film makers have deliberately encouraged this perception over the past several films.

In regards to the "someone you love" quote, it doesn't just mean spending Christmas with someone you love romantically ;)

Of course it doesn't. This doesn't change the fact that in the short, Harry is repeatedly and exclusively shown having 'loving moments' with Hermione and Hermione only.

The problem is that the movies cut 3 big moments for Ron and Hermione relationship that i felt were important to showing what their relationship was really like.

1. Harry not telling Ron that he sees Hermione like a sister.

2. Ron not begging Bellatrix to take him instead of Hermione

3. Ron being completely unable to control himself as he hears Hermione being tortured.
When you say "cut 3 big scenes", I'm assuming you mean things in the book, not actually filmed scenes....that's not really "cutting" anything, as the books are based on the spirit of the books, not the facts of the books. All the films leave out more book canon than they put in, and often switch lines from one character to another. So, yes, the portrayals are not always as clear in the movies as in the books. But it is not like the film makers are trimming actual scenes to mislead viewers. As a matter of fact, I saw DH1 the first time with several adult non-book readers. None of them thought Hermione & Harry were a couple, they correctly paired up Hermione & Ron.


The dance scene wouldn't have even bothered me so much if these scenes were included in the movie. Harry telling Ron that he sees Hermione as a sister would show Ron that what he saw was only in his head and not real.

I agree that would have re-confirmed it was only in Ron's head. But they do have Harry yelling to Ron that the horcrux is lying, to ignore it and kill it with the sword. And they also had the scene where Ron jumps to the conclusion that Hermione & Harry had gone off to be together as he sees them returning from the woods around camp, when it's very clear to movie viewers that it was only in Ron's head and nowhere near the truth.


It also won't make sense in DHP2 when Hermione forgives Ron as in the books she forgave him because he wanted to Bellatrix to torture him and she also heard Ron screaming her name as she was being tortured and this told Hermione how much Ron cared for her and the lengths he was willing to go to keep her safe. In the movie this did not happen and as a result i don't see why movie Hermione is going to forgive movie Ron for leaving when movie Ron hasn't done anything that would warrant that forgiveness.
I agree with Erin6, that's not the reason Hermione forgives Ron. I think the transition will be fine in the film, because even Hermione's tone when she says "I'm always mad at him" carries no hint of anger, but rather sounds like Hermione has already forgiven Ron but doesn't want to tell him that yet. And the way she looks at him after Ron tells her about the deluminator also implies forgiveness.

I believe the film makers have deliberately encouraged this perception over the past several films.



This. Simply because I find them much more interesting and watchable. Whether it was right or wrong, it was just the hand that was dealt.

It is clear that Ron and Hermoine will end up together, why or how, I don't know but there's no other way. Personally, I don't think they should have put so much emphasis on the teen romances, especially playing up a love triange (real or imagined) but I guess that sells movie tickets.

I think most people (even casual viewers) know that Ron and Hermione will end up together. I think the films have been clear about that.

The confusion I've encountered both in reviews and with people I've spoken with is whether Harry and Hermione could have 'something' potentially happen between them as well. I believe the film makers have deliberately encouraged this perception over the past several films.



Of course it doesn't. This doesn't change the fact that in the short, Harry is repeatedly and exclusively shown having 'loving moments' with Hermione and Hermione only.



I have to disagree about the promo. It is clearly implying something romantic between Harry and Hermione. They are shown embracing and dancing in the promo. There is no Ron or Ginny in site. If it were about anything other then that, then I think they would have shown the trio.

I have to disagree about the promo. It is clearly implying something romantic between Harry and Hermione. They are shown embracing and dancing in the promo. There is no Ron or Ginny in site. If it were about anything other then that, then I think they would have shown the trio.

I was just agreeing with StaceysChain that 'being with someone you love' doesn't necessarily have to mean something romantic.

I agree with you, however, that whoever put the short together is definitely encouraging the perception that something romantic might occur between Harry and Hermione in this film.

I have to disagree about the promo. It is clearly implying something romantic between Harry and Hermione. They are shown embracing and dancing in the promo. There is no Ron or Ginny in site. If it were about anything other then that, then I think they would have shown the trio.

I agree with you, however, that whoever put the short together is definitely encouraging the perception that something romantic might occur between Harry and Hermione in this film.

In my own personal opinion, I think the reason why they have all the Harry/Hermione clips is because Harry and Hermione did spend Christmas with each other in the film and to show the happiness it can bring: the dancing scene. But I agree they could've added the H/G kiss and a bit more Ron into it. But having said that it's only a 17 second promo.

For those that don't know, there's another Christmas themed promo :)

I think they gave Ron/Hermione fans enough moments between them in DH: part 1, quite honestly. I mean, they did have to actually tell about Harry and his quest.

But from the first moments of the film till the end there were moments: Hermione running to Ron, Ron looking at Hermione at the wedding, them running towards each other after the attack on the wedding, Hermione and the "tone of surprise" comment, Ron brushing Hermione's cheek, Piano playing, Hermione holding back Ron after kreacher offends her, hermione's reaction to ron kissing mary, ron's splinching, hermione defending ron's radio playing to harry, hermione upset when ron leaves, hermione crying on the rocks, hermione depressed after the infamous dance, the horocrux scene, ron's speech, hermione's reaction to the speech, ron trying to suck up to hermione, the boyfriend comment from the snatcher, hermione telling the snatchers not to hurt ron, ron disarming bellatrix, hermione running into ron's arms, ron not letting go of hermione at shell cottage, hermione putting her head on ron's shoulder at dobby's funeral.

i mean, there are a lot of moments...

:clap:

Yes, all of those moments you mentioned--in comparison to the one single "dance" scene. If there is a Harry/Hermione agenda in the film, it's quite unbalanced. :lol:
If anything, hyping up the dance scene as so hugely bothersome just undermines the countless Ron/Hermione moments, imo.

I disagree. I think the romances and the relationships between the characters are very important to the plots, and it would be nice if they were portrayed correctly.
Well, we are keeping up our disagreement record, lol.
Who falls in love with who (in the trio) does not help kill Voldemort and save the Wizarding World.
The relationships, in terms of love in general, are important because it is the driving force behind the series--it accounts for the lengths people will go to protect and fight.
But Harry marrying Ginny, Ron marrying Hermione, in light of everything else that happens, is just an afterthought to me. And it's an afterthought that we already know will make it into DH 2. So I'm satisfied. :)

Which brings me to the Christmas advertising you all have been discussing--
No commerical is going to change the outcome of the story...
And if anyone is misled by the commericials...Well, they'll be set straight in DH 2, will they not? ;)

I agree with PotterGurl. :). I don't read the HP books for the teenage romances - there are far bigger and more important themes in the books than who got off with who. Obviously JKR included romance because her wizarding kids were growing up! ;) And it wouldn't be realistic for her not to have done. :lol:

Professional film-makers do NOT have the same 'shipping obsessions as fans. The reason why WB promote Harry & Hermione is because Dan and Emma are both attractive. That's Hollywood for you!

The films have dropped R/H hints all the way along. I really wouldn't want these films to over-emphasise the teenage romances anyway - some nice, touching little moments between R/H and H/G are all that's required. And if the film-makers want to amuse themselves with a H/H dance as well, that's fine with me too. It's hardly the most epic or important aspect of the story.

I agree with PotterGurl. :). I don't read the HP books for the teenage romances - there are far bigger and more important themes in the books than who got off with who. Obviously JKR included romance because her wizarding kids were growing up! ;) And it wouldn't be realistic for her not to have done. :lol:

Professional film-makers do NOT have the same 'shipping obsessions as fans. The reason why WB promote Harry & Hermione is because Dan and Emma are both attractive. That's Hollywood for you!

The films have dropped R/H hints all the way along. I really wouldn't want these films to over-emphasise the teenage romances anyway - some nice, touching little moments between R/H and H/G are all that's required. And if the film-makers want to amuse themselves with a H/H dance as well, that's fine with me too. It's hardly the most epic or important aspect of the story.

Listening to Kloves, Yates and particularly Heyman's comments on the issue i would have to disagree with that statement.

Heyman in particular did say that he wanted Harry and Hermione to end up together so clearly it meant something to him.

Well, I don't know how this tv spot thing works, in other words, who puts them together. But whoever it was, clearly wanted to heavily imply a H/Hr romance (or doesn't know anything about the books or movies at all). Just imagine all the people who never read any of the books AND never watched a movie, but maybe considers bying the DVDs and go watch DH2 in the cinema. Don't you all think that this spot combined with some of the misconception of parts of the media must lead them to the conclusion that Harry and Hermione is the romantic pairing of the series?

I also do believe strongly that the WB thinks and always thought that Harry and Hermine should have ended together, but JKR just didn't want to go that way (fortunately). So, lacking actual canon, they still tried to imply as much "H/HR are an option" as possible. If only by up-grading their friendship's importance in the scheme of the trio relationship.

This tv spot is highly misleading at best, if not deceiving. We all know how the movies end. They end with the book canon couples. So why don't they just stop with their H/Hr obsession? The spirit of Christmas could have been sold differently to the audiences. And Ron returned on Christmas so he wouldn't have been out of place in such a spot.

Professional film-makers do NOT have the same 'shipping obsessions as fans. The reason why WB promote Harry & Hermione is because Dan and Emma are both attractive. That's Hollywood for you!

Bolded--That's something I've thought and just have been restraining from saying. :lol:
Dan has grown into a handsome guy, and he is Harry Potter, the star. Emma is the prettiest girl in the films. Of course they are heavily used for the advertisment. We know how Hollywood works, lol.

Heyman in particular did say that he wanted Harry and Hermione to end up together so clearly it meant something to him.
Just means that would have been his personal preference. That by no means implies that it was the most important aspect of the story to him.


Anyway,
Merry Christmas, Everyone! :D

Bolded--That's something I've thought and just have been restraining from saying. :lol:
Dan has grown into a handsome guy, and he is Harry Potter, the star. Emma is the prettiest girl in the films. Of course they are heavily used for the advertisment. We know how Hollywood works, lol.


Just means that would have been his personal preference. That by no means implies that it was the most important aspect of the story to him.


Anyway,
Merry Christmas, Everyone! :D



Is Rupert like chopped liver or something? LOL I think that is highly insulting to him by the filmmakers to imply that he can't be used to promote the movies.

Bolded--That's something I've thought and just have been restraining from saying. :lol:
Dan has grown into a handsome guy, and he is Harry Potter, the star. Emma is the prettiest girl in the films. Of course they are heavily used for the advertisment. We know how Hollywood works, lol.

Exactly! And what people are saying is that this same 'Hollywood preference' can be seen in the films as well.

Just means that would have been his personal preference. That by no means implies that it was the most important aspect of the story to him.

I don't think anyone here is saying that the romances are the most important aspect of the story to Heyman. Only that his (and other's) 'personal preference' can be felt in the movies themselves.

Exactly! And what people are saying is that this same 'Hollywood preference' can be seen in the films as well.



I don't think anyone here is saying that the romances are the most important aspect of the story to Heyman. Only that his (and other's) 'personal preference' can be felt in the movies themselves.

Exactly and I think it's also important to understand that the romance aspect of the story is important to some fans.

Perhaps if you could have seen the entire DH (1 and 2) and seen R/Hr's scene it would have felt more balanced for you. So, that unholy dance scene wouldn't seem very important.
I really do believe that the personal experiences of viewers color this scene. People who have seen similar moments in their lives or those of others can step back from this scene and see it objectively and not read something else into it and can appreciate it for the tender, bittersweet moment it is. If they haven't, they can have trouble seeing it that way. They can see it as something they relate to or not and perhaps read into it things that were never intended and are purely in the eyes of the viewer. We don't often get to experience nuanced levels in a film aimed at a younger crowd. This scene takes the risk in honoring that maturity and takes the initiative to fill in the shades of gray without always confining itself to the broad strokes of the story..

Is Rupert like chopped liver or something? LOL I think that is highly insulting to him by the filmmakers to imply that he can't be used to promote the movies.

Yes, Ron is the equivalent of chopped liver. He's clearly the 3rd wheel in the group in terms of usefulness. He's not overly smart, powerful, insightful, or wise. He's mostly the comic relief, and the person who explains the magical world.

Yes, Ron is the equivalent of chopped liver. He's clearly the 3rd wheel in the group in terms of usefulness. He's not overly smart, powerful, insightful, or wise. He's mostly the comic relief, and the person who explains the magical world.

That makes me sad that you see him like that, and that the movies have portrayed him like that. He is not like that in the books at all. The movies up until DH have totally destroyed who Ron really is. He is not the third wheel in terms of usefulness, and has sacrificed a great deal for Harry and risked his life many times. He is so much more then comic relief. Harry would not have survived all he has without Ron or Hermione.

That makes me sad that you see him like that, and that the movies have portrayed him like that. He is not like that in the books at all. The movies up until DH have totally destroyed who Ron really is. He is not the third wheel in terms of usefulness, and has sacrificed a great deal for Harry and risked his life many times. He is so much more then comic relief.

Interesting, because the books clearly portray him that way. Harry is the obvious leader, and Hermione is the smart one who helps Harry figure everything out. She got the info on flamel, figured out the basilisk, figured out lupin's being a werewolf, and many other things. Ron... Won a chess match. Important, but third-wheelish. It's natural, with Harry being the Alpha-male, for Ron to take a backseat. I think Ron's taking of a backseat, at least in perception, is pointed out by Jo in the scene that is the fallout of Sirius' appearance at Ron's bed, as she says something about Ron finally getting attention.

Ron is pretty much just Harry's best friend, and he's there to just help when he might be needed, and attempt to cheer Harry up when he's down and talk Quidditch with him. He does seem third-wheelish.

I hate the Harry/Hermione dancing scene in DH P1. There is no way that that should have happened, and guess what?! It didn't! Not in the books anyway, which are the basis of the movies, and the movies should be a true adaptation of that.

Yes, Ron is the equivalent of chopped liver. He's clearly the 3rd wheel in the group in terms of usefulness. He's not overly smart, powerful, insightful, or wise. He's mostly the comic relief, and the person who explains the magical world.


All true, but it doesn't feel right without him. He does seem to get under billed. I'm always trying to figure out why he is in back in promo pictures. Simply because of his height? He does 'explain' the magical world, but he is also very important to Harry. He is actually vital to Harry. Hermione is the brains, but Ron represents love and loyalty and family. Things Harry hasn't had. It seems these attributes are a little more ambiguous to define and so people can't actually pinpoint the importance of Ron.

Interesting, because the books clearly portray him that way. Harry is the obvious leader, and Hermione is the smart one who helps Harry figure everything out. She got the info on flamel, figured out the basilisk, figured out lupin's being a werewolf, and many other things. Ron... Won a chess match. Important, but third-wheelish. It's natural, with Harry being the Alpha-male, for Ron to take a backseat. I think Ron's taking of a backseat, at least in perception, is pointed out by Jo in the scene that is the fallout of Sirius' appearance at Ron's bed, as she says something about Ron finally getting attention.

I think that is inaccurate. Harry is not really Alpha at all. He is just Harry. The story wouldn't exist without Harry's purpose. His existence is the crux for the action. It happens whether Harry chooses it or not. He is really helpless except in how he responds. But it is his life. Not Ron's. If we said let's make this a movie about Ron, the story wouldn't exist. Harry needs Ron. It's just a bit more ephemeral but no less meaningful. They form a trio and each has their own intrinsic importance.

Interesting, because the books clearly portray him that way. Harry is the obvious leader, and Hermione is the smart one who helps Harry figure everything out. She got the info on flamel, figured out the basilisk, figured out lupin's being a werewolf, and many other things. Ron... Won a chess match. Important, but third-wheelish. It's natural, with Harry being the Alpha-male, for Ron to take a backseat. I think Ron's taking of a backseat, at least in perception, is pointed out by Jo in the scene that is the fallout of Sirius' appearance at Ron's bed, as she says something about Ron finally getting attention.

Ron finally getting attention does not mean that he is any less important to the group then the other two and it certainly doesn't mean he isn't brave or smart. In fact Jo makes a point of pretty much saying that Harry and Ron are pretty even when it comes to intelligence.

Ron is pretty much just Harry's best friend, and he's there to just help when he might be needed, and attempt to cheer Harry up when he's down and talk Quidditch with him. He does seem third-wheelish.

Ron is so much more then that. He has been vital to Harry in all these books, and not jsut to cheer Harry up and talk quidditch with him. Harry could not have succeeded in this mission without Ron. In fact he would be dead without Ron. Harry and Hermione aren't doing all this stuff by themselves.

Ron is pretty much just Harry's best friend, and he's there to just help when he might be needed, and attempt to cheer Harry up when he's down and talk Quidditch with him. He does seem third-wheelish.

I hate the Harry/Hermione dancing scene in DH P1. There is no way that that should have happened, and guess what?! It didn't! Not in the books anyway, which are the basis of the movies, and the movies should be a true adaptation of that.

I agree. The Ron-Hermione thing was a snow ball that you could see coming a mile away. It wasn't a climactic, spur of the moment, last-second decision for Hermione. It just so happens that such a thing plays poorly in the movies. Shame, really.

It's important to remember the importance of friendship and 'family' for Harry. Because in the end, without it, he is really just fighting for himself and an ambiguous witching/wizarding population. It's not like the Wizarding world has been so kind to Harry. Ron is the face of the world for Harry. He gives his life meaning. He gives him affection and familial ties. Aside from Hermione, Ron is pretty much Harry's only friend. He is Harry's heart. The Burrow scenes all illustrate how important this love is to Harry. And he wouldn't have it without Ron. Without Ron, Harry would still pretty much be a spiritual orphan. And Rowling says as much in the books during the time that Ron and Harry are not speaking to each other. Without Ron, and the love and friendship he brings Harry, who are we to say that Harry, who's life mirrors Tom Riddles in so many ways wouldn't have just continued on the same path Tom Riddle did? Without friendship, Harry's main motivation in defeating Voldemort could have ended up being overthrowing him to take his place as a more powerful Dark Lord. Ron humanizes Harry. He gives Harry what Harry has never had. In a way, he is Harry's guiding light, but it just isn't as crystallized in the way Hermione's role is. Hermione's role is quite clear. Ron's is less tangible but probably more important in many ways. And Dumbledore realizes this, and encourages and even nurtures their friendship.

It's important to remember the importance of friendship and 'family' for Harry. Because in the end, without it, he is really just fighting for himself and an ambiguous witching/wizarding population. It's not like the Wizarding world has been so kind to Harry. Ron is the face of the world for Harry. He gives his life meaning. He gives him affection and familial ties. Aside from Hermione, Ron is pretty much Harry's only friend. He is Harry's heart. The Burrow scenes all illustrate how important this love is to Harry. And he wouldn't have it without Ron. Without Ron, Harry would still pretty much be a spiritual orphan. And Rowling says as much in the books during the time that Ron and Harry are not speaking to each other. Without Ron, and the love and friendship he brings Harry, who are we to say that Harry, who's life mirrors Tom Riddles in so many ways wouldn't have just continued on the same path Tom Riddle did? Without friendship, Harry's main motivation in defeating Voldemort could have ended up being overthrowing him to take his place as a more powerful Dark Lord. Ron humanizes Harry. He gives Harry what Harry has never had. In a way, he is Harry's guiding light, but it just isn't as crystallized in the way Hermione's role is. Hermione's role is quite clear. Ron's is less tangible but probably more important in many ways. And Dumbledore realizes this, and encourages and even nurtures their friendship.

Well, without Hermione, Harry never would've saved the Stone from Quirrell, and the school would've closed down in book two. I think she's pretty important. I also think that saying Ron is the main reason Harry isnth the junion dark lord is a bit of an overstatement.

Well, without Hermione, Harry never would've saved the Stone from Quirrell, and the school would've closed down in book two. I think she's pretty important. I also think that saying Ron is the main reason Harry isnth the junion dark lord is a bit of an overstatement.

As is saying Ron is chopped liver and basically not important. That's the point of the trio. They are all equally important. Harry would not have made it through all this without either of them.

Well, without Hermione, Harry never would've saved the Stone from Quirrell, and the school would've closed down in book two. I think she's pretty important. I also think that saying Ron is the main reason Harry isnth the junion dark lord is a bit of an overstatement.

Sigh. Who said Hermione wasn't important? Technically, though, was Harry even supposed to get the stone? Did Dumbledore put it there for Harry to get? Or was he just trying to keep it from Voldemort. Would Voldemort have gotten it?

As is saying Ron is chopped liver and basically not important. That's the point of the trio. They are all equally important. Harry would not have made it through all this without either of them.

Yes, it is. I thought I had conveyed my sarcasm, but I suppose not. Harry is the star of the books, and Hermione is his physical, mental, and emotional sidekick. Hermione is the star female, and is the chief problem-solver, to Harry's chief moral-leader-and-bravest-member. That makes ron the chief... Guy-whose-wand-breaks-whose-rat-is-a-death-eater-who-flies-a-car-into-a-tree-who-drinks-a-love-potion-who-dates-a-random-person-to-get-back-at-hermione-who-needed-a-confundus-charm-to-win-his-spot-on-the-quidditch-team. The Harry moments are when he is brave, when he is unwaveringly moral. The Hermione moments are mostly when she is cleverer than many professors. The Ron moments are mostly him making a fool of himself. That's just how I perceive it.

Also, they are not equally important. Hermione and especially Ron are supporting characters. That's the way it is. It's Harry's story, his battle. He is the one who must kill Voldemort. This is emphasized all throughout the books.

Well, without Hermione, Harry never would've saved the Stone from Quirrell, and the school would've closed down in book two. I think she's pretty important. I also think that saying Ron is the main reason Harry isnth the junion dark lord is a bit of an overstatement.

He wouldn't have got the stone from Quirrell without Ron either. Even if they had managed to win the chess game (which is unlikely), Hermione would have had to sacrifice herself and without her, Harry couldn't have got past Snape's puzzle.

Yes, it is. I thought I had conveyed my sarcasm, but I suppose not. Harry is the star of the books, and Hermione is his physical, mental, and emotional sidekick. Hermione is the star female, and is the chief problem-solver, to Harry's chief moral-leader-and-bravest-member. That makes ron the chief... Guy-whose-wand-breaks-whose-rat-is-a-death-eater-who-flies-a-car-into-a-tree-who-drinks-a-love-potion-who-dates-a-random-person-to-get-back-at-hermione-who-needed-a-confundus-charm-to-win-his-spot-on-the-quidditch-team. The Harry moments are when he is brave, when he is unwaveringly moral. The Hermione moments are mostly when she is cleverer than many professors. The Ron moments are mostly him making a fool of himself. That's just how I perceive it.

Also, they are not equally important. Hermione and especially Ron are supporting characters. That's the way it is. It's Harry's story, his battle. He is the one who must kill Voldemort. This is emphasized all throughout the books.

Kinda funny when you put it that way. :lol: But, no, he is important as I said above. hat's the way it is. It's Harry's story, his battle. He is the one who must kill Voldemort. But without them, who would he battle for? They give him the reason to fight. Otherwise he could have just been the next Sauron overthrowing Morgoth.

Sigh. Who said Hermione wasn't important? Technically, though, was Harry even supposed to get the stone? Did Dumbledore put it there for Harry to get? Or was he just trying to keep it from Voldemort. Would Voldemort have gotten it?

I don't know. But I know there's a reason Harry had to go get it. Hermione is miles more important that Ron.

Kinda funny when you put it that way. :lol: But, no, he is important as I said above.

Yes, he is important. But, like I said, he is the third wheel. He is the first to fall in the SS gauntlet, and the one who leaves in book 7. He is also estranged from Harry during a large part of book 4. Hermione stands by his side the entire time, IIRC.

I don't know. But I know there's a reason Harry had to go get it. Hermione is miles more important that Ron.



Yes, he is important. But, like I said, he is the third wheel. He is the first to fall in the SS gauntlet, and the one who leaves in book 7. He is also estranged from Harry during a large part of book 4. Hermione stands by his side the entire time, IIRC.

Did you read what I said above about Ron's importance to Harry? What he represents. Hermione does not represent that to Harry.

Yes, it is. I thought I had conveyed my sarcasm, but I suppose not. Harry is the star of the books, and Hermione is his physical, mental, and emotional sidekick. Hermione is the star female, and is the chief problem-solver, to Harry's chief moral-leader-and-bravest-member. That makes ron the chief... Guy-whose-wand-breaks-whose-rat-is-a-death-eater-who-flies-a-car-into-a-tree-who-drinks-a-love-potion-who-dates-a-random-person-to-get-back-at-hermione-who-needed-a-confundus-charm-to-win-his-spot-on-the-quidditch-team. The Harry moments are when he is brave, when he is unwaveringly moral. The Hermione moments are mostly when she is cleverer than many professors. The Ron moments are mostly him making a fool of himself. That's just how I perceive it.

Also, they are not equally important. Hermione and especially Ron are supporting characters. That's the way it is. It's Harry's story, his battle. He is the one who must kill Voldemort. This is emphasized all throughout the books.

And yet he could not have done it by himself. He need Hermione and Ron with him to do it. Therefore I consider them just as important. Hermione, IMO, is not more important then Ron. Just because she has different qualities doesn't mean that she's more important. JKR made it a trio for a reason.

Also, how does him being the first to fall in SS make him a third wheel? Without Ron, Harry wouldn't have gotten any farther. Ron, at 11 years old was willing to sacrifice himself so Harry could go. That hardly makes him the third wheel. I mean I understand not liking Ron, but to just ignore all he's done in the books just makes no sense to me. I mean he even helped harry in GOF when he was mad at him.

I don't know. But I know there's a reason Harry had to go get it. Hermione is miles more important that Ron.

I do think Hermione is more important when it comes to Harry's actual quest. She is instrumental in helping Harry find the horcrux and they really would have been absolutely lost without her. But I think Ron is important in a different sense. He may not be as useful at solving problems but, as many people have already said, he is Harry's heart. Without Ron, Harry was lost emotionally. And while that may not have been as necessary to the horcrux hunt, I think, to Harry, he is just as important as Hermione.

I do think Hermione is more important when it comes to Harry's actual quest. She is instrumental in helping Harry find the horcrux and they really would have been absolutely lost without her. But I think Ron is important in a different sense. He may not be as useful at solving problems but, as many people have already said, he is Harry's heart. Without Ron, Harry was lost emotionally. And while that may not have been as necessary to the horcrux hunt, I think, to Harry, he is just as important as Hermione.

It was necessary to the horcrux hunt though. When Ron left, Harry and Hermione were pretty much lost. I mean they didn't really do anything without Ron, but once he came back, they were back to their hunt.

Professional film-makers do NOT have the same 'shipping obsessions as fans. The reason why WB promote Harry & Hermione is because Dan and Emma are both attractive. That's Hollywood for you!



Bravo to you for being so frank. Yes its true, I have to agree with you and several others. Dan is a highly attractive young man ( I would probably blush big time if he hit on me lol) and hello.... THE MAIN CHARACTER! Emma is a gorgeous young woman, and the only female in the Trio.


That said, Rupert is (IMO) also a highly attractive young man, I just think its shame that Ron gets second fiddle even in movie promotion. Poor guy gets that enough as a character.

Did you read what I said above about Ron's importance to Harry? What he represents. Hermione does not represent that to Harry.

Yes, I read it. But I think your thinking is flawed. Ron is Harry's best friend, but I don't think he is irreplaceable to the cause. Harry is a good person, unlike Voldy. Jo has clearly stated that Voldemort is evil because he cannot experience love. Harry can, this is what separates them.

I'm not sure what you mean by "face of the world" but I'm sure i don't agree that it's important.

I actually laughed when I read the "ron gives harry's life meaning" thing.

Ron doesn't humanize Harry, Harry is a human, he doesn't need something to humanize him.

I would say that Harry's main motivation isn't to save Ron. Ron isn't Harry's only friend.

I really appreciate the cliche, but Ron is not Harry's guiding light, it's very often the other way. harry is the moral figure, it is his morals that guide the story.

It's important to remember the importance of friendship and 'family' for Harry. Because in the end, without it, he is really just fighting for himself and an ambiguous witching/wizarding population. It's not like the Wizarding world has been so kind to Harry. Ron is the face of the world for Harry. He gives his life meaning. He gives him affection and familial ties. Aside from Hermione, Ron is pretty much Harry's only friend. He is Harry's heart. The Burrow scenes all illustrate how important this love is to Harry. And he wouldn't have it without Ron. Without Ron, Harry would still pretty much be a spiritual orphan. And Rowling says as much in the books during the time that Ron and Harry are not speaking to each other. Without Ron, and the love and friendship he brings Harry, who are we to say that Harry, who's life mirrors Tom Riddles in so many ways wouldn't have just continued on the same path Tom Riddle did? Without friendship, Harry's main motivation in defeating Voldemort could have ended up being overthrowing him to take his place as a more powerful Dark Lord. Ron humanizes Harry. He gives Harry what Harry has never had. In a way, he is Harry's guiding light, but it just isn't as crystallized in the way Hermione's role is. Hermione's role is quite clear. Ron's is less tangible but probably more important in many ways. And Dumbledore realizes this, and encourages and even nurtures their friendship.

Oh that was beautiful... you just made me cry.

Please remember that not many of us have the same views on everything and while it is perfectly okay to disagree, it would be much better if the tone of the posts did not get too sarcastic, aggressive or rude.

Is Rupert like chopped liver or something? LOL I think that is highly insulting to him by the filmmakers to imply that he can't be used to promote the movies.
Chopped liver? No.

Exactly! And what people are saying is that this same 'Hollywood preference' can be seen in the films as well.
Hollywood preference in the advertising. Maybe.
Preference in the films, nope. Not from what I see.
The issue I think, like others have explained before, is that Harry is the leading character. Hermione is the leading female character. Which makes Ron the second-leading male character. Maybe it's not so much preference as it is a default when you have 3 leads...
Harry IS the most important male character. Hermione IS the most important female character. Ron then becomes, the second most important male character. I think this is where the perceived imbalance is coming from.

In reality though, I think most fans know all 3 are important. Didn't J.K. Rowling describe Harry as the vehicle (i.e. the one who gets things moving forward), Hermione as the brain (i.e. the one who figures things out), and Ron as the heart (i.e. the emotional support). Without any part, you aren't complete. Harry (vehicle) and Hermione (brain) can keep things moving with just the two of them; they can survive, as we see in DH. But without Ron (their heart), they lack the emotional support that makes them stronger. And though they can keep going, they fall into an emotional stupor, a void--which just makes moving a lot tougher, but not impossible.
This could also be why Ron is perceived as less important. Without a vehicle (Harry) to get you forward, you won't go anywhere. Without a brain to figure things out (Hermione), you will fail. I see Ron as being their source of happiness. A person can survive without being happy, but it just makes things less pleasant. Without being happy, you may still be able to move forward. You may still be able to figure things out. But you just won't feel too well...

We'll just have to agree to disagree on that one because nothing will ever convince me that Harry and Hermione are not who the filmmakers think should be together.

I think you're right. Heck, Harry and Hermione are the ones I think should be together. It all works out. Lead male and lead female, together.

Chopped liver? No.


Hollywood preference in the advertising. Maybe.
Preference in the films, nope. Not from what I see.
The issue I think, like others have explained before, is that Harry is the leading character. Hermione is the leading female character. Which makes Ron the second-leading male character. Maybe it's not so much preference as it is a default when you have 3 leads...
Harry IS the most important male character. Hermione IS the most important female character. Ron then becomes, the second most important male character. I think this is where the perceived imbalance is coming from.

In reality though, I think most fans know all 3 are important. Didn't J.K. Rowling describe Harry as the vehicle (i.e. the one who gets things moving forward), Hermione as the brain (i.e. the one who figures things out), and Ron as the heart (i.e. the emotional support). Without any part, you aren't complete. Harry (vehicle) and Hermione (brain) can keep things moving with just the two of them; they can survive, as we see in DH. But without Ron (their heart), they lack the emotional support that makes them stronger. And though they can keep going, they fall into an emotional stupor, a void--which just makes moving a lot tougher, but not impossible.
This could also be why Ron is perceived as less important. Without a vehicle (Harry) to get you forward, you won't go anywhere. Without a brain to figure things out (Hermione), you will fail. I see Ron as being their source of happiness. A person can survive without being happy, but it just makes things less pleasant. Without being happy, you may still be able to move forward. You may still be able to figure things out. But you just won't feel too well...

This isn't just to you, but to everyone... Can we name say... 5 scenes where Ron is the one who drives the purpose of the group forward? Because I can name 50 for harry and hermione.

While Ron has been chopped liver in the movies, I also do think that he plays a simple yet loyal sidekick in the books. I've been listening to DH again and there have been countless times when something happened or Harry/Hermoine makes a statement, Ron's first response was either "what do you mean?", "what was that?", "huh?", "how did you know that?", etc. Rarely was Ron the initiator of thought, action or ideas. But as been said, his presence is meaningful to both Harry and Hermoine.

If Hermione is the sister that Harry never had, then Ron is the brother he never had. THAT, IMO, is what Rowling was up to when she created the dynamics of the Trio - that is one of the elements that makes the Trio work so well (IMO).

I'm not even a particular fan of Ron (although I've nothing against him either) but I enjoy the Trio for what they are and I think JKR makes them work very well. Take Ron out of the equation, and something is lost from the story. This isn't meant to be some sort of competition between the characters so that we tot up each scene which proves or disproves Ron's 'worth'. JKR intends Ron to have a role in this story and he fulfils it - Ron's insecurities sometimes clash with Harry's, their friendship goes through stress and strain and then emerges the stronger. The love and support of both Hermione and Ron nurture Harry and help to make him what he is. I really like the fact that Harry has two best friends of both sexes.

Anja, that was a great post. :tu:

I'm not a H/H shipper - I think Hermione, much as I love her, would drive Harry round the bend. :rotfl:

I still think the films are on track re: R/H and that the H/H dance is a storm in a teacup.

I'm not even a particular fan of Ron (although I've nothing against him either) but I enjoy the Trio for what they are and I think JKR makes them work very well. Take Ron out of the equation, and something is lost from the story. This isn't meant to be some sort of competition between the characters so that we tot up each scene which proves or disproves Ron's 'worth'. JKR intends Ron to have a role in this story and he fulfils it - Ron's insecurities sometimes clash with Harry's, their friendship goes through stress and strain and then emerges the stronger. The love and support of both Hermione and Ron nurture Harry and help to make him what he is. I really like the fact that Harry has two best friends of both sexes.

I'm not a H/H shipper - I think Hermione, much as I love her, would drive Harry round the bend. :rotfl:

I still think the films are on track re: R/H and that the H/H dance is a storm in a teacup.

Well said :)

It seems we've moved away from romantic moments......

I really liked the scene at the Burrow when Ginny & Harry kiss; also the way Harry runs toward Ginny when the DE's start arriving at the wedding before Lupin intervenes & tells him to escape. In my opinion, those scenes, along with Ron's lovestruck gaze at Hermione, set up for film goers who the couples are.

Yes, I read it. But I think your thinking is flawed. Ron is

Ron doesn't humanize Harry, Harry is a human, he doesn't need something to humanize him.

I would say that Harry's main motivation isn't to save Ron. Ron isn't Harry's only friend.

.

I think he helps Harry to be able to do what he does. And btw, Voldy is human also.

I think that despite what the filmakers think about who should pair up with who, R/Hr do shine in DH. They have cute moments and it's clear that they have feelings for each other. I wish there were more but whatever. The H/Hr dance can be annoying especially the way Harry takes the locket off of Hermione (something that really bothered me when I first watched it)...but I look past that and in the end it does show that Harry is a caring friend to Hermione and wants to cheer her up. A true friend does not like to see his/her friends upset about anything.

Hollywood preference in the advertising. Maybe.
Preference in the films, nope. Not from what I see.
The issue I think, like others have explained before, is that Harry is the leading character. Hermione is the leading female character. Which makes Ron the second-leading male character. Maybe it's not so much preference as it is a default when you have 3 leads...
Harry IS the most important male character. Hermione IS the most important female character. Ron then becomes, the second most important male character. I think this is where the perceived imbalance is coming from.

Well, it's all fine. For some people the preference is obvious, for others it's not. Not much we can do about it anyway.

What is a fact is that Ron was finally given more to do in DH1 than act like a goof ball. So maybe that 'perceived imbalance' in the trio dynamics is finally shifting. :tu:

I think he helps Harry to be able to do what he does. And btw, Voldy is human also.

If everyone is human, then no one needs to be humanized, in my opinion. In Jo's world, Voldy had a lack of something that made him unable to beloved, which is why he turned out the way he did. Harry never lacked that.

If everyone is human, then no one needs to be humanized, in my opinion. In Jo's world, Voldy had a lack of something that made him unable to beloved, which is why he turned out the way he did. Harry never lacked that.


Or about the choices we make.

Yes, I read it. But I think your thinking is flawed. Ron is Harry's best friend, but I don't think he is irreplaceable to the cause. Harry is a good person, unlike Voldy. Jo has clearly stated that Voldemort is evil because he cannot experience love. Harry can, this is what separates them.

I'm not sure what you mean by "face of the world" but I'm sure i don't agree that it's important.

But because this is a thread about romances, I will wrap it up by pointing out that Harry is honorable and the dance between he and Hr was nothing but a friend cheering up another friend.

I actually laughed when I read the "ron gives harry's life meaning" thing.

Ron doesn't humanize Harry, Harry is a human, he doesn't need something to humanize him.

I would say that Harry's main motivation isn't to save Ron. Ron isn't Harry's only friend.

I really appreciate the cliche, but Ron is not Harry's guiding light, it's very often the other way. harry is the moral figure, it is his morals that guide the story.


I am glad I put some humor in your day! (: A lot of what I say is meant to be rhetorical. I think that there is symbolism in the books. I don't think everything has to be taken as a black and white fact. It's true, Ron doesn't seem to do much. He doesn't seem to succeed at much, he doesn't have the ideas, or the actions backing him up. But he is part of the trio. Why? What is his purpose? And if he is not in the trio what happens then? Do you feel things would be weakened? Do you feel Harry would be just dandy without having Ron as a friend. We don't know HOW Harry would have come out if things had gone differently for him. One of the themes of the book is that it is the choices we make that matter. The sorting hat says Harry would do great in Slytherin, but Harry CHOSE not to. What if he hadn't? What if he had become Slytherin, just blindly taking the sorting hat's judgment at face value. Who would the influences in his life be? Draco? Crabbe? Would it be Draco's house he visited in the summer? Harry has led a sheltered life. He is an orphan and really pretty ignorant about all things wizardry and about families and friendships for that matter. With the choice of going to Slytherin, Harry may have turned out quite differently. Less caring, Less self deprecating, less gallant. With role models like that, and part of Voldemort deep inside him, he could easily have become enamored with dark magic. Voldy might not have tried to KILL him as much as mentor and t hereby control him. It was a choice that put Harry in Gryffindor. And a choice to be Ron's friend and Hermione's too. And they both represent something to him. They both give him something vital that he needs. Because he did make the choice but really he has no idea what to do. His friends bolster him. Hermione is the brains but she isn't always right. Ron is the one who gives Harry the opportunity for things he has never experienced. Very important experiences that help Harry learn the scope of the world, the meaning of friendship and family and love. He would not have learned those things in Slytherin. What would Harry have turned out like if had gone to Slytherin and not had Hermione OR Ron. Ron is symbolic for Harry. And a powerful one at that. The lost family and familial love he never had. Symbols are important. They give us something to fight for.

I am glad I put some humor in your day! (: A lot of what I say is meant to be rhetorical. I think that there is symbolism in the books. I don't think everything has to be taken as a black and white fact. It's true, Ron doesn't seem to do much. He doesn't seem to succeed at much, he doesn't have the ideas, or the actions backing him up. But he is part of the trio. Why? What is his purpose? And if he is not in the trio what happens then? Do you feel things would be weakened? Do you feel Harry would be just dandy without having Ron as a friend. We don't know HOW Harry would have come out if things had gone differently for him. One of the themes of the book is that it is the choices we make that matter. The sorting hat says Harry would do great in Slytherin, but Harry CHOSE not to. What if he hadn't? What if he had become Slytherin, just blindly taking the sorting hat's judgment at face value. Who would the influences in his life be? Draco? Crabbe? Would it be Draco's house he visited in the summer? Harry has led a sheltered life. He is an orphan and really pretty ignorant about all things wizardry and about families and friendships for that matter. With the choice of going to Slytherin, Harry may have turned out quite differently. Less caring, Less self deprecating, less gallant. With role models like that, and part of Voldemort deep inside him, he could easily have become enamored with dark magic. Voldy might not have tried to KILL him as much as mentor and t hereby control him. It was a choice that put Harry in Gryffindor. And a choice to be Ron's friend and Hermione's too. And they both represent something to him. They both give him something vital that he needs. Because he did make the choice but really he has no idea what to do. His friends bolster him. Hermione is the brains but she isn't always right. Ron is the one who gives Harry the opportunity for things he has never experienced. Very important experiences that help Harry learn the scope of the world, the meaning of friendship and family and love. He would not have learned those things in Slytherin. What would Harry have turned out like if had gone to Slytherin and not had Hermione OR Ron. Ron is symbolic for Harry. And a powerful one at that. The lost family and familial love he never had. Symbols are important. They give us something to fight for.

Ron is a large part of the books, yes. But Ron is not the focus of the books or the movies. There are very good reasons that Harry and Hermione are the ones promoted as the headliners, and it's because they are the biggest characters in the books.

[staff edit]I think you're way overstating Ron's impact on Harry. We don't really know Harry as a character separate from Ron, but I bet he wasn't in need of someone to teach him about love or friendship, as if Ron were an expert on the subject.

I think that Ron, for JK, is a symbol of Harry's link to the magical world, whereas Hermione is a dispensary for knowledge, and his main sidekick. However, I think Ron is easily the least important of the group, and contributes very little to the group over the course of the seven books.

I disagree that Harry would've been enamored with Dark Magic, he isn't a very influenced person.

Ron is a large part of the books, yes. But Ron is not the focus of the books or the movies. There are very good reasons that Harry and Hermione are the ones promoted as the headliners, and it's because they are the biggest characters in the books.

[staff edit]I think you're way overstating Ron's impact on Harry. We don't really know Harry as a character separate from Ron, but I bet he wasn't in need of someone to teach him about love or friendship, as if Ron were an expert on the subject.

I think that Ron, for JK, is a symbol of Harry's link to the magical world, whereas Hermione is a dispensary for knowledge, and his main sidekick. However, I think Ron is easily the least important of the group, and contributes very little to the group over the course of the seven books.

I disagree that Harry would've been enamored with Dark Magic, he isn't a very influenced person.

Who is to say Harry wouldn't have turned out bad if he had not met Ron? He was an orphan who was abused and mistreated as a child and had not truely experienced love. That is exactly the same as Voldemort. He could have easily turned to Malfoy, who he had previously met, and turned out to be in Slytherin.And when you say that Harry is not easily influenced, it was Ron's influence on him that made him make the choice not to be in Slytherin.

Ron came from a nurturing family who willingly took Harry in and loved him as their own. How many families would do that, especially when in the financial situation the Weasleys were in?

You keep saying we overestimate Ron's value to the trio, but have you stopped to think that maybe you underestimate his value? I for one know that without the emotional support I have from my closest friend and my family, I would not be the happy person I am today. Hermione may have been the brains of the group, but she was not the emotional support Harry needed to get himself through the tough times. Thus, I think Ron is equally important [staff edit].

I've just had a bit of a deletefest. Telling other members that their ideas are clicheed, that they do not understand the books or how they "should" interpret the text is rude. If I have to delete any more comments of that kind, the member posting them will get a warning point.

I think you're right. Heck, Harry and Hermione are the ones I think should be together. It all works out. Lead male and lead female, together.



This isn't just to you, but to everyone... Can we name say... 5 scenes where Ron is the one who drives the purpose of the group forward? Because I can name 50 for harry and hermione.

I think Harry and Hermione ended up with exactly who they were supposed to. Harry thinks of Hermione as a sister and loves Ginny. Hermione loves Ron.

I get that you hate Ron, and I totally respect your opinion, we all like who we like, but I guess I just don't understand why you are devaluing his worth to the group. JKR made it very clear in the books that there was a reason for the trio. They all bring something to the table, and they don't work without each other. That was shown when Ron left. Harry and Hermione just weren't the same. They all needed each other, and Harry needed Ron and Hermione to defeat Voldemort. If that weren't the case, then JKR wouldn't have wrote it as a trio.

I'm also under the impression that Harry is being thought of as some extrodinarily smart wizard in this argument, and when it come to intelligence, Ron and Harry were on the same page there. Although, since they both became Aurors, I say they did ok for themselves.

I think you're right. Heck, Harry and Hermione are the ones I think should be together. It all works out. Lead male and lead female, together.



This isn't just to you, but to everyone... Can we name say... 5 scenes where Ron is the one who drives the purpose of the group forward? Because I can name 50 for harry and hermione.

Isn't it a bit like Samwise in LotR. Where would Frodo have gotten without old Sam? Sam shines at the end, but for the most part he is a support, a rock for Frodo to do what he must. Is Ron that different? I think Samwise performed more vital tasks than Ron, but in the end they are pretty much the same thing. Samwise represents home, and hobbits and freedom and a way of life. I think you can pretty much call this for Ron also. Do all roles have to proactive? Or can their very existence be the reason for their value? Samwise was my favorite character in LotR (and I am talking the books) I felt like he was the true hero of the tale in many ways. I don't feel that way about Ron, but I think Ron has value and is an important part of the trio.

So, back to the romantic moments of the film :)

So, back to the romantic moments of the film :)

Well since it's Christmas, I will say that I love Ron hearing Hermione say his name on Christmas, and then finding his way back to her

Well since it's Christmas, I will say that I love Ron hearing Hermione say his name on Christmas, and then finding his way back to her

Yea, that was a cute moment!

Erin6: I knew I could count on you :lol:

Yea, that was a cute moment!

Erin6: I knew I could count on you :lol:

:lol: I know I have complained a lot in this thread, but I really did love all the little moments Ron and Hermione got.

:lol: I know I have complained a lot in this thread, but I really did love all the little moments Ron and Hermione got.

I think we all have :lol: But it just shows how great Jo did with her characters if debate this passionately about them.

To those who've I've disagreed with and vice versa, please do not think I'm disagreeing with you personally or I don't like you or anything because that's definitely not what I'm doing :p

Sorry, I've seen this happen on other forums and boards where when I (and others) disagree with someone else on one subject, they think that I'm holding some personal grudge or something :(

But I really can't wait till Part 2 and see this amazing kiss we're supposed to get :D

I had heard before I saw the movie that there was a dance that was sort of a what-if moment between the two. It didn't really bother me a lot to hear that, nor when I actually saw it, but I guess I was more prepared for it than some.

David Yates: There’s a moment in the film where Harry and Hermione dance for the first time. It’s full of proper sexual tension because they’re both teenagers and they’re at that stage where Ron’s left and there’s a sort of intimacy between them.

A lot of people have read a lot into that quote. Yes, the director has stated that “sexual chemistry” was intended to be present in that scene, but I believe the interpretation can be fairly wide, and comes down to how one defines “sexual tension.”

To me it only means that human beings have certain physical and emotional feelings and reactions and needs for closeness, which tend to hit most especially a) in the roughest of times, and, b) in youth, and that Harry and Hermione, being human in a sitation that was both, feeling deeply isolated, with someone with whom they share a deep closeness, the concept of “what if” would have to at least flit across their minds at least for a brief moment, if the situation was to be at all realistic. They'd probably see themselves in a very real sense as essentially “the last two people on earth” and that would certainly have an effect.

As Free_Elf said: ...it clearly isn't romance or love. Just something biological and pyschological, that is the foundation of human interactions. It would be unrealistic to suggest that two people so close, at their lowest and loneliest, would never have the possibility flash through even their most emotional or physical senses. I don't think the books even try to make us believe that.

These two, yes, deeply love others, but they are not after all, mature, long-married adults. They are still teenagers, deeply emotional, still defining themselves and their romantic relationsips, and suddenly forced to think in stark terms of whatever life they may or may not have left, who would keenly feel those natural human tensions.

The cirmcumstances alone would be enough to grind down anyone's psyche, even without the oppressiveness of a tangible projector of despair greatly magnifying their desolation. They are much like two people alone together at the bottom of a well in the dark at this point. Thoughts of, “We are so alone; the situation seems nearly hopeless; who knows, we could easily die any day; who knows if we will ever see anyone we love again?...” would have to be throbbing constantly in their heads.

Steve Kloves: “Harry's intention, initially, is simply to draw her out of her melancholy by distracting her. And it shows the danger of raw emotion. They begin to feel joy, which is very simple -- he's successful at drawing her out of her melancholy. But then the intimacy becomes more complicated, as raw emotions do. They realize that they're alone, and they both think of the same person, Ron, and it's complicated now.”

Complicated and clearly off the table at that moment as soon as it appears and they break away from each other.

So Harry did not go at this with selfish intentions--what was intended as a kind moment of caring between two dear and close friends, is briefly blurred by a natural inevitable question--one that sneaks in and asks itself when their resistance is lowest.

Between Kloves' description and the evidence on the screen, it's shown that immediately as soon as the question's there, bang!, Ron's tangible presence has the same effect that Riddikulus has on a boggart, and it's clearly rejected by both in a matter of seconds as a bad idea. I don't see anything in this that would taint anyone's character at all.

I don't believe the writer's or director's idea behind this scene was, as some have suggested, was to somehow push the idea of Harry/Hermione as a good idea—as if Yates was trying to say that in some way they were a better couple than Ron/Hermione, as if he was some sort of H/Hr shipper making up some odd non-canonical fanfic in the middle of the movie.

Instead I think the plan here was to eliminate the idea and get it out of everyone's way before we went into the final stretch—to show that the possibility of H/Hr together is NOT one that would have been a swell idea if only it had ever crossed the character's minds to toss the idea around and they simply failed to consider it, but instead that it had indeed come up and has now been stamped D.O.A. once and for all--that yes, the option has flashed past the normal human sensibilities of Harry and Hermione as might be expected and was now gone.

...I just feel like there needs to be something in the next movie other then the kiss that totally ends the debate.

I believe this is the scene is there that was put there to show that the possibility has duly presented itself, been put out on the table, and quickly and clearly discarded as all wrong, and that's meant to be the end of it.

Hello everyone, Merry Christmas, this is actually my first post because I am new. I'm barley learning how things work here, but I"ll try my best to post my honest opinion about certain topics.

As for the Dance scene between Harry and Hermione, I found it a bit awkward, funny, cute, and sad. Awkward because it seemed that there was something going on between Harry and Hermione and towards the end it seemed that Harry wanted to go further ( Hermione didn't, Yay!) when there's nothing going on between them in the books. Funny because Harry simply cannot dance(I laughed so hard). Cute because it shows how powerful friendship works, and how Harry trys to cheers Hermione. Sad, because both Harry and Hermione are sad that Ron left and the song fit perfectly.

Overall I have a lover/hate thing with that scene, because the director/producers tired create a love triangle, when in the books its completely different. But in the end we all know its Ron and Hermione :)

I think Harry and Hermione ended up with exactly who they were supposed to. Harry thinks of Hermione as a sister and loves Ginny. Hermione loves Ron.

I get that you hate Ron, and I totally respect your opinion, we all like who we like, but I guess I just don't understand why you are devaluing his worth to the group. JKR made it very clear in the books that there was a reason for the trio. They all bring something to the table, and they don't work without each other. That was shown when Ron left. Harry and Hermione just weren't the same. They all needed each other, and Harry needed Ron and Hermione to defeat Voldemort. If that weren't the case, then JKR wouldn't have wrote it as a trio.

I'm also under the impression that Harry is being thought of as some extrodinarily smart wizard in this argument, and when it come to intelligence, Ron and Harry were on the same page there. Although, since they both became Aurors, I say they did ok for themselves.

I don't hate Ron. I like Ron, I think he is a very good, very important character. I just don't think that there's any solid evidence to say that Ron is being un-justly portrayed. Or, at the very least, I haven't seen any on here.

Additionally, I don't disagree that all three are important, or that all three bring something to the table. I just feel as if Harry and Hermione bring more to the table than Ron.

Honestly, the reason I wanted Harry to end up with Hermione is very, very shallow, and has nothing to do with Ron. When I read the books, i, to a certain extent, experience the events from Harry's perspective, and I think Hermione is absolutely stunning.

Well we got very off topic by discussing what Ron means to the group, so I will save my reply for another thread. However, Hermione is never described by Harry as being stunning, so do you mean that you yourself find her stunning, or you think Harry does?

I don't hate Ron. I like Ron, I think he is a very good, very important character. I just don't think that there's any solid evidence to say that Ron is being un-justly portrayed. Or, at the very least, I haven't seen any on here. I respect your feeling that Ron hasn't been un-justly portayed, although I personally feel he has been, by reducing him to comic relief. Which Ron isn't. I guess you are talking about the movie(s), right?

In the books, Ron - how ever one might judge his importance in the trio and to Harry's quest - has been shown to be someone who is willing to sacrifice his life for Harry (and Hermione) and who is very protective. I.E. standing up to Sirius in the Shrieking Shack in PoA and, in PoA too, defending Hermione from Snape's taunts in class. These things might not be important in the grand scheme, but they show what kind of person Ron is and in relation to the romantic sub-plot they show why Hermione might feel drawn to someone like Ron. But in the movies, they took that away by giving one scene to Hermione (Shrieking Shack) and by changing the other scene around completely and have him agree with Snape in class. That totally misrepresents Ron's character, IMO. He is not a coward and while he can be mean and insensitive towards Hermione he would never allow anyone else to say nasty things to her.

Fortunately, things went slowly better for the character from OotP onwards and in DH we finally get to see "book-Ron" again. And voilà, it works better for the romantic sub-plot too, IMO. R/Hr have so many lovely scenes that clearly show their feelings. Despite the scene "that shall not be named" it's abundantly clear, IMO, that they will end up.

Now if the move makers would do someting about Harry/Ginny. I did enjoy their little exchange in the kitchen although it didn't seem to be enough.

Honestly, the reason I wanted Harry to end up with Hermione is very, very shallow, and has nothing to do with Ron. When I read the books, i, to a certain extent, experience the events from Harry's perspective, and I think Hermione is absolutely stunning.You know, I think this is actually a very good and comprehensible explanation. Most of us relate to one or the other character. That's why we get so invested in their "lives". Be it in the books or in the movies.

Well we got very off topic by discussing what Ron means to the group, so I will save my reply for another thread. However, Hermione is never described by Harry as being stunning, so do you mean that you yourself find her stunning, or you think Harry does?

I myself do.

I love all the Ron and Hermione moments in this film. My favorite has to be when Ron and Tonks come back and Hermione looks back between the real Harry and Ron/Harry to make sure which she hugs the real Ron. That was so cute!!!I love the expression on Ron face when Hermione hugs him. Ron saying "Thanks" and "Always the tone of surprise". Ohhh and Hermione taking off the glasses on his face.

I love all the Ron and Hermione moments in this film. My favorite has to be when Ron and Tonks come back and Hermione looks back between the real Harry and Ron/Harry to make sure which she hugs the real Ron. That was so cute!!!I love the expression on Ron face when Hermione hugs him. Ron saying "Thanks" and "Always the tone of surprise". Ohhh and Hermione taking off the glasses on his face.

I loved Hermione taking the glasses off Ron. I thought it was very symbolic and Ron was checking her out when she did it. LOL

It was very symbolic because in a way Hermione chooses Ron instead of Harry by taking off the glasses (although Rupert did look cute with glasses on LOL). Hahah yeah Ron does check her off! sooo cute :)

okay read couple of posts (not going to go though 37 pages to see anyone said the same thing) I may be wrong about this but wasn't the dancing part of Ron's nightmare/worst fear whatever, and maybe it was something the director/writer wanting to keep but just couldn't work in a way to move over to Ron, but they really wanting to keep that moment. or just throwing out a red herring to those casual HP fans.

It was very symbolic because in a way Hermione chooses Ron instead of Harry by taking off the glasses (although Rupert did look cute with glasses on LOL). Hahah yeah Ron does check her off! sooo cute :)

I thought that was the symbolism in this moment from the first time I saw the movie.

Of-course at the time, it felt to me like they were emulating Twilight by almost artificially constructing a love triangle between the three main leads out of nowhere, which kinda annoyed me. :lol: (one of the aspects of the film I really didn't like and found cheesy), but I don't really notice it anymore when I watch the film.

I LOVED the glasses scene...it was so cute and I loved the look Hermione gave when she was caught between Ron-Harry and the real Harry...now, if Harry would have given them more time alone, instead of ruining their hug :grumble:

okay read couple of posts (not going to go though 37 pages to see anyone said the same thing) I may be wrong about this but wasn't the dancing part of Ron's nightmare/worst fear whatever, and maybe it was something the director/writer wanting to keep but just couldn't work in a way to move over to Ron, but they really wanting to keep that moment. or just throwing out a red herring to those casual HP fans.

I don't understand what you mean. Dancing was never part of Ron's worst fears about Harry and Hermione. It had nothing to do with the horcrux. It never happened in the book, so there was nothing to move over to Ron. In fact in the book Ron and Hermione dance at the wedding.

I loved all the R/H parts in DH, but still like the bit in HBP when Ron is in the hospital wing better! But i doubt it will be after part 2.

My favorite romantic moments in the part 1 movie would have to be Ron and Hermione! I think it is so adorable how they react to each other throughtout the movie and the books! One of my favorite parts in the part 1 was when Harry, Hermione and Ron just defeated the Death Eaters in the cafe, and Ron says to Hermione, "Hermione you do it, your the best at charms." (then heruns his finger down her cheek) That part gets me every time!

I it's been talked about before but let me just copy+paste from my review of DH...

- the Harry/Hermione dance. The single worst scene in the series, and this from someone who used to think H/Hr would end up together pre-GoF in the books, and went in with an open mind, without any knowledge or pre-conceived ideas about it.
Hermione dancing, with Ron gone ? Really ? Harry leaning in for the kiss, creating a quasi-"maybe/what if" moment ? "R e a l l y ?

I thought the bit where Ron & Harry were sitting on the cot in the tent and Harry says "Just keep talking about that little light touching your heart. She'll come 'round." was pure win.

I it's been talked about before but let me just copy+paste from my review of DH...

- the Harry/Hermione dance. The single worst scene in the series, and this from someone who used to think H/Hr would end up together pre-GoF in the books, and went in with an open mind, without any knowledge or pre-conceived ideas about it.
Hermione dancing, with Ron gone ? Really ? Harry leaning in for the kiss, creating a quasi-"maybe/what if" moment ? "R e a l l y ?

I wouldn't call it the worst. Them screwing up Snape's Worst Memory will always be the worst to me, but it's definitely one of the worst.

i wanted to find out peoples opinions about whether there will be more ron hermione scenes in the second film as a lead up to the kiss

i wanted to find out peoples opinions about whether there will be more ron hermione scenes in the second film as a lead up to the kiss
I think there will be. I'm pretty sure there will be. Rupert Grint said in one interview that Ron and Hermione will be very coupley in DH2 with a lot of hand holding and touching and such as a build-up to the kiss. I think he said something like it definitely won't come out of nowhere.

When they filmed at Shell Cottage there were rumors flying around about Rupert and Emma being away fliming scenes on their own. Of course none of that has ever been confirmed, but maybe we'll get a scene with the two of them alone. We kind of already had a scene with the two of them alone in DH1 when Hermione fixes Ron's sling and they are sitting on the bench next to each other. Harry is seen in the distance though and they are talking about him, so it's not really a scene with them alone.

I've just been to my third viewing and I really concentrated on this scene. Certainly Harry had a look in his eyes to start with and he removed the locket from Hermione so that whatever happened was not because of its influence but once they started to dance, it just became two friends who had a moment of fun then went back to their loneliness. Harry's dancing is like his eyesight, terrible.

And I thought when Hermione asked Harry not to let her cut his hair again, that Harry was about to apologise but Hermione cut the moment.

I've just been to my third viewing and I really concentrated on this scene. Certainly Harry had a look in his eyes to start with and he removed the locket from Hermione so that whatever happened was not because of its influence but once they started to dance, it just became two friends who had a moment of fun then went back to their loneliness. Harry's dancing is like his eyesight, terrible.

And I thought when Hermione asked Harry not to let her cut his hair again, that Harry was about to apologise but Hermione cut the moment.

I think that may be reading more into the scene than is really there. There wasn't a "look in his eyes" as far as I could see -- he just looked tired, depressed and concerned about Hermione. He took the locket from Hermione's neck, but also didn't put it on...he wanted a break from worrying about horcruxes. He was trying for a few moments of normalcy, however temporary. And there was nothing to apologize for, as there was no intent other than to try and cheer her up a bit.

seemed like a nice moment between two friends. one who was trying to cheer the other up. nothing more. just a little comic relief, for the characters in the film and the movie goers.

I think that may be reading more into the scene than is really there. There wasn't a "look in his eyes" as far as I could see -- he just looked tired, depressed and concerned about Hermione.

Well the film makers themselves state they were aiming to create some "proper sexual tension" in the scene. So I really don't think it's reading more into the scene than is really there if you interpret something more than simple concern for Hermione in Harry's look.

This doesn't mean Harry had any conscious intent other than to cheer Hermione up. Only that sexual tension can naturally occur in situations like this, even between friends.

And there was nothing to apologize for, as there was no intent other than to try and cheer her up a bit.

I think Harry was trying to apologize because he felt responsible for Ron leaving (he basically told him to go). It didn't have anything to do with the dance.

Them screwing up Snape's Worst Memory will always be the worst to me, but it's definitely one of the worst.

:tu:I 100% agree with you . When the Snape scene was over in a flash I was soooo upset. I was really looking forward to this scene and I was very disappointed.

Now to talk about the Harry/Hermione dance. I saw A LOT of enterviews with the actors and they all talked about how this scene was about Harry and Hermione trying to be a little young and have fun doing silly things between all the caos .

Harry Potter has always been about friendship and love. Harry was NOT trying anything more than to make his friend smile just for a little while, because she misses her true love very much. :)

Well the film makers themselves state they were aiming to create some "proper sexual tension" in the scene. So I really don't think it's reading more into the scene than is really there if you interpret something more than simple concern for Hermione in Harry's look.

This doesn't mean Harry had any conscious intent other than to cheer Hermione up. Only that sexual tension can naturally occur in situations like this, even between friends.

Right, so you basically just answered that there wasn't 'a look in his eyes', because the sexual tension that occurred was not intentional.


I think Harry was trying to apologize because he felt responsible for Ron leaving (he basically told him to go). It didn't have anything to do with the dance


I agree. He was going to apologize for Ron leaving, and Hermione didn't want him to have to do that and basically let him know she didn't blame him.

:tu:I 100% agree with you . When the Snape scene was over in a flash I was soooo upset. I was really looking forward to this scene and I was very disappointed.

Now to talk about the Harry/Hermione dance. I saw A LOT of enterviews with the actors and they all talked about how this scene was about Harry and Hermione trying to be a little young and have fun doing silly things between all the caos .

Harry Potter has always been about friendship and love. Harry was NOT trying anything more than to make his friend smile just for a little while, because she misses her true love very much. :)

The actors mentioned quite a bit about the sexual tension and what if moment during this scene too, which is exactly what I saw from Harry and why I hated it so much.

I went and saw Part 1 with my brothers who were in town over the christmas holiday. One has only seen the films and i would consider him a fan of the films and the other has read the books and has seen the films though i wouldn't consider him a fan of either. They both saw something in the dance scene and where pretty much like what was that all about.

They both thought Harry expected a kiss at the end.

I saw the H/H dance scene as a cute scene between two good friends, nothing more. Harry was worried for Hermione, and he knew she was upset, just as he was, about Ron leaving them. He also knows from HBP that Hermione's in love with Ron. It's not in Harry's nature (in the books or movies) to jeopardize those kind of things. He wouldn't pine after Hermione, mostly because he's not interested in her that way, and aside from that, he's got Ginny, but because his best friend is in love with her, even if Ron was not at the stage to admit it and completely realize it himself yet.

So no. While I don't mind Harry/Hermione romantically depending on what kind of mood I'm in, it was evident to me that that scene was just there to cheer up Hermione. And it's something I could have seen book!Harry doing as well.

My brothers and sister are also non-fans and saw the movie with me on the second viewing but they didn't get that impression at all. "Far from romantic" my sister described it as.

Just a matter of interpretation :shrug:

I went and saw Part 1 with my brothers who were in town over the christmas holiday. One has only seen the films and i would consider him a fan of the films and the other has read the books and has seen the films though i wouldn't consider him a fan of either. They both saw something in the dance scene and where pretty much like what was that all about.

They both thought Harry expected a kiss at the end.

I think he absolutely expected a kiss at the end which is why the scene was so out of place for me. It was so out of character for Harry, well BookHarry would have never done anything like that. Book Harry would have never even suggested a dance, and would have never done anything like that to Ginny.

I think he absolutely expected a kiss at the end which is why the scene was so out of place for me. It was so out of character for Harry, well BookHarry would have never done anything like that. Book Harry would have never even suggested a dance, and would have never done anything like that to Ginny.

I don't think Ginny would've been angry and/or sad if she found out Harry had danced with Hermione while they were alone in the wilderness in order to try and cheer Hermione up.

I don't think Ginny would've been angry and/or sad if she found out Harry had danced with Hermione while they were alone in the wilderness in order to try and cheer Hermione up.

:tu: I don't either.

I don't think Ginny would've been angry and/or sad if she found out Harry had danced with Hermione while they were alone in the wilderness in order to try and cheer Hermione up.

Well I think that depends on how you interpret the scene. I saw Harry wanting more then just friendship in that scene, so I think Ginny would have been quite upset about that.

Right, so you basically just answered that there wasn't 'a look in his eyes', because the sexual tension that occurred was not intentional.

A "look in someone's eyes" can be both intentional and non-intentional. We are basically seeing reflected through the eyes what someone might be feeling, whether they intended those feelings or not.

I definitely think there was a bit of a 'look' in Harry's eyes that reflected some sexual tension - nothing more, nothing less. If anything, the dance proved that Harry and Hermione don't have romantic feelings for each other.

My brothers and sister are also non-fans and saw the movie with me on the second viewing but they didn't get that impression at all. "Far from romantic" my sister described it as.

Just a matter of interpretation :shrug:

No i don't really think so, but thank you for your thoughts.

No i don't really think so, but thank you for your thoughts.

Sorry, but I think that the never ending debate for the previous 38 pages would say otherwise :shrug:

Well the film makers themselves state they were aiming to create some "proper sexual tension" in the scene. So I really don't think it's reading more into the scene than is really there if you interpret something more than simple concern for Hermione in Harry's look.

This doesn't mean Harry had any conscious intent other than to cheer Hermione up. Only that sexual tension can naturally occur in situations like this, even between friends.

The film makers may have thought that's what they were intending, but it's clear from Dan's portrayal that there are no romantic intentions there whatsoever. Anyone I know who saw the film but had not read HP, did not see any "sexual tension" in that scene (and they all determined a couple films back that Ron & Hermione would be together). Harry's move was a brotherly attempt at nudging Hermione out of her sadness for a time. It's a very sibling thing to do.


I think Harry was trying to apologize because he felt responsible for Ron leaving (he basically told him to go). It didn't have anything to do with the dance.

Harry had nothing to apologize for there either. Only Ron is responsible for Ron leaving. And Ron says exactly that when he returns later.

No i don't really think so, but thank you for your thoughts.

I saw what you saw on Harry's part, but it's obviously up for interpretation since others saw it differently. Otherwise we've wasted a lot of time debating this scene. LOL.


The film makers may have thought that's what they were intending, but it's clear from Dan's portrayal that there are no romantic intentions there whatsoever. Anyone I know who saw the film but had not read HP, did not see any "sexual tension" in that scene (and they all determined a couple films back that Ron & Hermione would be together). Harry's move was a brotherly attempt at nudging Hermione out of her sadness for a time. It's a very sibling thing to do.


I think Dan played the beginning where he takes the locket off her and the end with sexual tension. I saw romantic intentions from Harry.


BTW, Happy New Years everyone!

The film makers may have thought that's what they were intending, but it's clear from Dan's portrayal that there are no romantic intentions there whatsoever.

The film makers stated they intended some "sexual tension" in the scene, not "romantic intentions". The two are completely different and not necessarily connected. So yes, I agree (and the film makers would probably agree as well) - Dan's portrayal shows "no romantic intentions whatsoever".

Anyone I know who saw the film but had not read HP, did not see any "sexual tension" in that scene (and they all determined a couple films back that Ron & Hermione would be together).

The films are very clear that Ron and Hermione have romantic feelings for one another and will end up together. It's also clear from the films that Harry and Hermione have no romantic feelings for one another, at least imo. On that much we seem to agree.

All I can say about your other point is that I know several people who saw the film that did see some sexual tension, myself included. So it's clear from Dan's portrayal that the film makers' intentions were made obvious to some people.

Harry had nothing to apologize for there either. Only Ron is responsible for Ron leaving. And Ron says exactly that when he returns later.

Well, yes. But that doesn't mean Harry doesn't feel like he's responsible for Ron leaving (at least in part). Thus, the apology.

The film makers stated they intended some "sexual tension" in the scene, not "romantic intentions". The two are completely different and not necessarily connected. So yes, I agree (and the film makers would probably agree as well) - Dan's portrayal shows "no romantic intentions whatsoever".
I see we have totally different views regarding romantic intentions and sexual tension; I think they're always connected.

Well, yes. But that doesn't mean Harry doesn't feel like he's responsible for Ron leaving (at least in part). Thus, the apology.

Except there's nothing in the film to support that Harry felt responsible for Ron's leaving. Or in the books for that matter.

Harry was not responsible for Ron leaving, but he was a jerk regarding Ron's feelings about worrying about his family. They were both responsible for the fight.

I see we have totally different views regarding romantic intentions and sexual tension; I think they're always connected.
...

I would disagree with this, both in context of the film and in my own personal life experience. It's easy for me to see the potential for the platonic, pseudo-sibling relationship between Harry & Hermione evolving into something more romantic and/or sexual in Ron's absence. I can see this happening even without intent on either Harry or Hermione's part. I can see Harry thinking at first "I'd like to cheer Hermione up, maybe a silly dance would work" and then in the middle of the dance thinking "hey, Hermione's actually pretty hot and Ron left. Maybe she'll kiss me after the dance..." and I can also see Hermione thinking along similar lines: "Harry's rather fanciable, and Ron's a jerk who left us." Also we do have, in the film, Hermione's lines about just giving up the quest and staying in the Forest of Dean "growing old together" or something along those lines. This would back up the notion of the two of them starting out their lives as a couple in Ron's absence, if it were to continue indefinitely.

I did not, however, see any of these thoughts clearly portrayed in Dan's or Emma's actual performances of the dance scene. Maybe because I've never been a Harmony shipper and the dance was completely unexpected for me, being 100% extra-canonical.

[staff edit: no personal details please]

Harry was not responsible for Ron leaving, but he was a jerk regarding Ron's feelings about worrying about his family. They were both responsible for the fight.

I agree that Harry was a bit of a jerk about Ron's feelings, but neither of the boys in the Trio have ever been much good at reading other people's feelings. I think Ron should have realized that just because Harry didn't have any close blood relatives to worry about, that didn't mean he was completely unconcerned and care-free about whom the Death Eaters might be targeting. I think perhaps if he hadn't been wearing and listening to the Horcrux in the locket, he might have realized that Harry's feelings about Ginny were just as strong or stronger than his, though with the completely different dynamic. I know I think and care a lot more about what might happen to my lover while he's travelling or at work than I do about my brother or my sister. So I can see where Harry was just as concerned about Ginny and the rest of the Weasleys as Ron was even though he lacked those blood ties. His love for them was just as strong and Ron was wrong not to realize that.

And bearing all this in mind, I think as the movie portrayed the scene, Harry does have some responsibility for Ron leaving. In the film script, Harry suggested that Ron leave as opposed to Ron threatening to leave as IIRC it was in the book. Also, in my opinion, Ron started the fight both in the movie and in the book.

I would disagree with this, both in context of the film and in my own personal life experience. It's easy for me to see the potential for the platonic, pseudo-sibling relationship between Harry & Hermione evolving into something more romantic and/or sexual in Ron's absence. I can see this happening even without intent on either Harry or Hermione's part. I can see Harry thinking at first "I'd like to cheer Hermione up, maybe a silly dance would work" and then in the middle of the dance thinking "hey, Hermione's actually pretty hot and Ron left. Maybe she'll kiss me after the dance..." and I can also see Hermione thinking along similar lines: "Harry's rather fanciable, and Ron's a jerk who left us." Also we do have, in the film, Hermione's lines about just giving up the quest and staying in the Forest of Dean "growing old together" or something along those lines. This would back up the notion of the two of them starting out their lives as a couple in Ron's absence, if it were to continue indefinitely.

I did not, however, see any of these thoughts clearly portrayed in Dan's or Emma's actual performances of the dance scene. Maybe because I've never been a Harmony shipper and the dance was completely unexpected for me, being 100% extra-canonical.

[staff edit: no personal details please]



I agree that Harry was a bit of a jerk about Ron's feelings, but neither of the boys in the Trio have ever been much good at reading other people's feelings. I think Ron should have realized that just because Harry didn't have any close blood relatives to worry about, that didn't mean he was completely unconcerned and care-free about whom the Death Eaters might be targeting. I think perhaps if he hadn't been wearing and listening to the Horcrux in the locket, he might have realized that Harry's feelings about Ginny were just as strong or stronger than his, though with the completely different dynamic. I know I think and care a lot more about what might happen to my lover while he's travelling or at work than I do about my brother or my sister. So I can see where Harry was just as concerned about Ginny and the rest of the Weasleys as Ron was even though he lacked those blood ties. His love for them was just as strong and Ron was wrong not to realize that.

And bearing all this in mind, I think as the movie portrayed the scene, Harry does have some responsibility for Ron leaving. In the film script, Harry suggested that Ron leave as opposed to Ron threatening to leave as IIRC it was in the book. Also, in my opinion, Ron started the fight both in the movie and in the book.

Well Harry didn't seem all that concerned about Ginny in the movie. In the book it was totally different, but MovieHarry didn't seem to think about Ginny at all. I just thought he was totally insensitive to not even consider that Ron was worried about his family and cut him some slack. Although I loved the moment when Hermione defends Ron listening to the radio to Harry.

Well it would have to obviously be Harry and Hermione dancing in the tent. That was quite a beautiful moment, and for once, Harry didn't really have to worry about anything, and it was his way of telling Hermione that everything was going to be okay. I guess it wasn't the same for Hermione however, because she would rather be with Ron.

As of the book, we do get a strong sense that love and friendship will conquer evil, throughout all of the books, especially the last two. JKR also said this in her interview with Oprah. I think HBP was all about the relationships and how that would affect them in the last book. I mean, I remember Harry saying to Ginny at the end of HBP that he couldn't be with her because Voldemort would target her and use her as a hostage to bring Harry to him.

However once Voldemort was destroyed, Harry could be with her, and protect her, just in case there was another Voldemort protege in the future that's yet to be revealed.

I see we have totally different views regarding romantic intentions and sexual tension; I think they're always connected.



.



I don't think so. People can be sexually attracted to each other, as a physiological feeling without 'romance' being attached to it. Romance is highly personal and sentimental, based in both sexual attraction and emotions. Sexual Attraction can truly physical only with feelings of tension but not romantic emotionalism.

The film makers stated they intended some "sexual tension" in the scene, not "romantic intentions". The two are completely different and not necessarily connected. So yes, I agree (and the film makers would probably agree as well) - Dan's portrayal shows "no romantic intentions whatsoever".


I don't think so. People can be sexually attracted to each other, as a physiological feeling without 'romance' being attached to it. Romance is highly personal and sentimental, based in both sexual attraction and emotions. Sexual Attraction can truly physical only with feelings of tension but not romantic emotionalism.

I agree with both of the above.
Sexual tension = A physical feeling
Romantic tension = An emotional feeling

They can co-exist. They can occur seperately.
People who have not known each other long enough to have romantic feelings for each other can at some moment experience sexual tension.

I don't think there ever was a sexual attraction between Harry and Hermione. Remember the books are from Harry's perspective and whenever Hermione's appearance was described (apart from at the Yule Ball) Harry's description of Hermione was less than flattering.

I think if the books were from Ron's perspective the description of Hermione would be very different (as he is attracted to her).

I LOVED this part! :) absolutely adorable!

I don't think there ever was a sexual attraction between Harry and Hermione. Remember the books are from Harry's perspective and whenever Hermione's appearance was described (apart from at the Yule Ball) Harry's description of Hermione was less than flattering.

I think if the books were from Ron's perspective the description of Hermione would be very different (as he is attracted to her).

I don't think there's any sexual attraction between them either.

In this scene, possibly sexual tension, as some people see. But that is still different from sexual attraction, imo.

I agree with both of the above.
Sexual tension = A physical feeling
Romantic tension = An emotional feeling

They can co-exist. They can occur seperately.
People who have not known each other long enough to have romantic feelings for each other can at some moment experience sexual tension.

I agree PotterGurl and also with ajna as well.

Sexual tension is purely a physical response and can exist in the absence of any romantic feelings or intentions at all.

The two are sometimes connected but not always.

Originally Posted by alsp
Well, yes. But that doesn't mean Harry doesn't feel like he's responsible for Ron leaving (at least in part). Thus, the apology.

HedwigOwl: Except there's nothing in the film to support that Harry felt responsible for Ron's leaving.

Well the scene where Harry screams at Ron to "Go. . . just go then. . ." seems more than enough to support Harry later feeling like he might have been partly responsible for Ron leaving. This would be an extremely common response for many people to feel guilty about something they said in anger and then to later feel the need to apologize.

Well the scene where Harry screams at Ron to "Go. . . just go then. . ." seems more than enough to support Harry later feeling like he might have been partly responsible for Ron leaving. This would be an extremely common response for many people to feel guilty about something they said in anger and then to later feel the need to apologize.

It seems things are getting off the topic of romantic moments. But in reponse to your theory, there's nothing in the film to support that Harry was about to apologize to Hermione for Ron's leaving.

It seems things are getting off the topic of romantic moments. But in reponse to your theory, there's nothing in the film to support that Harry was about to apologize to Hermione for Ron's leaving.

Well he was obviously apologizing for something. Do you have a better theory? :)

Well he was obviously apologizing for something. Do you have a better theory? :)

Maybe it was just supposed to be a "I'm sorry you are feeling so terrible" apology.
Harry doesn't have to necessarily be apologizing for Ron leaving, as if it were his fault. It may have just been he was sorry about how Hermione was feeling. Sort of like when someone passes and you offer condolences and say, "I'm sorry for your loss." Obviously the loss isn't your fault, but it's just a way of expressing that you feel bad about someone's pain.

I think the same principle can possibly appy here.

Or, it could have been Harry wanting to apologize for Hermione being there in the first place. That would have been very in tune with Harry's character. He initially didn't want Ron and Hermione to go with him because he didn't want to put them through such danger. So maybe Harry was feeling responsible for Hermione being in that situation in general. And Hermione, being the loyal friend she is, does not want Harry to go there--Doesn't want him to apologize because she would have stuck by his side regardless.

The near-apology is such a loaded moment. So may interpretations! :D

Maybe it was just supposed to be a "I'm sorry you are feeling so terrible" apology. . . .

Or, it could have been Harry wanting to apologize for Hermione being there in the first place. . . .

The near-apology is such a loaded moment. So may interpretations! :D

Any of those interpretations work for me as well. I actually like that the film makers left the apology a bit vague and open. There are so many things that Harry might be apologizing for. This way the film goer can decide for themselves what makes sense to them.

One of the reasons I go with Harry feeling partly responsible for Ron leaving is Hermione's response when he starts to apologize. She states that she will never try cutting his hair again. This refers directly back to the scene where Ron and Harry fight and then Ron leaves. It's almost as if Hermione feels partly responsible as well.

Any of those interpretations work for me as well. I actually like that the film makers left the apology a bit vague and open. There are so many things that Harry might be apologizing for. This way the film goer can decide for themselves what makes sense to them.

One of the reasons I go with Harry feeling partly responsible for Ron leaving is Hermione's response when he starts to apologize. She states that she will never try cutting his hair again. This refers directly back to the scene where Ron and Harry fight and then Ron leaves. It's almost as if Hermione feels partly responsible as well.

I also like that the scene is vague and open.

I hadn't thought of Hermione's comment like that. I thought of it as her just saying something to cut Harry off while he was trying to apologize, letting him know that he didn't need to apologize for anything. However, I like the thought of it as being a way for Hermione to essentially take part of the blame too.
It's nice to have another take on it. :)

I also like that the scene is vague and open.

I hadn't thought of Hermione's comment like that. I thought of it as her just saying something to cut Harry off while he was trying to apologize, letting him know that he didn't need to apologize for anything. However, I like the thought of it as being a way for Hermione to essentially take part of the blame too.
It's nice to have another take on it. :)

The way I see it, Hermione's comment is the film makers' way of giving context to the moment by directly referring us back to the scene where Ron leaves.

To me it's clear that both Harry and Hermione feel some guilt about Ron leaving. Which is completely realistic and how people irl might feel in a similar situation.

And to stay OT, this interpretation is simply a counter to the interpretation that Harry is apologizing for the dance.

Well he was obviously apologizing for something. Do you have a better theory? :)

There was no apology. Several posts back, Apheka was theorizing on a scene of what wasn't said by Harry, but what Apheka thought he was going to say. Here's the original post.

And I thought when Hermione asked Harry not to let her cut his hair again, that Harry was about to apologise but Hermione cut the moment.

So no, I don't have a theory, because there wasn't an apology, just conjecture on dialog that didn't happen.

I think the scene was gorgeous. O'Children by Nick Cave was a genius choice to put in this film. And I like the fact that this film was the one that the makers decided to start utilyzing different forms of media, i.e. a modern song, the animation short.

I bought the song the second I got home from the midnight premiere. Lyrically, it's near perfect for the people of the Harry Potter generation, imo.

And as far as the romance/sexuality debate, my first impression was definitely just a vibe of "oh Harry's trying to be cute and funny to cheer her up". If you really examine it, sure you can "see" some intimacy in the whole thing. But if you really examined it, you'd probably be able to "see" some -- for the lack of a better example-- fascism or governmental propaganda. That's just the nature of scrutiny.

There's no reason for the filmmakers to be purposefully placing romance into the Harry/Hermoine relationship, so obviously, it was just a scene that was supposed to have a teeny weeny bit sexual tension gone wrong. In the eyes of only some, that is.

There was no apology. Several posts back, Apheka was theorizing on a scene of what wasn't said by Harry, but what Apheka thought he was going to say. Here's the original post.



So no, I don't have a theory, because there wasn't an apology, just conjecture on dialog that didn't happen.

Well that's what we're talking about - what was Harry attempting to apologize about if Hermione hadn't cut him off. The apology doesn't cease to exist just because he was cut off.

You might not have a theory on the scene yourself. But it is interesting to speculate about. :)

The film makers obviously put the scene there for a reason. Some have speculated that Harry wanted to apologize for the dance. But I believe the 'near-appology' and Hermione's hair cut comment directly refer back to the scene where Ron leaves.

EDIT: Just looked at script. And I agree it's not certain that Harry was even going to apologize, though it still seems likely that he was.

http://s3.amazonaws.com/data.tumblr.com/tumblr_ledvuzK3L61qe16q4o1_1280.png?AWSAccessKeyId =0RYTHV9YYQ4W5Q3HQMG2&Expires=1294068984&Signature=J64Gu8t9sfKuOy84YWy63ZrTawU%3D
argh! so david yates cut the part where harry and ginny really got to talk to each other..it wouldn't hurt the movie if he didn't cut it..it would just be a minute longer! harry and hermione got to dance in the film even though it's not in the book while harry and ginny can't even have a conversation beyond two sentences..how is that fair?:(

Hey Southern Belle. Where did you find that script?

Something tells me that is a load of horsepucky.... or fanfiction.

Let's give her a chance to lay open her source, shall we? There's no need to make snide remarks.

http://s3.amazonaws.com/data.tumblr.com/tumblr_ledvuzK3L61qe16q4o1_1280.png?AWSAccessKeyId =0RYTHV9YYQ4W5Q3HQMG2&Expires=1294068984&Signature=J64Gu8t9sfKuOy84YWy63ZrTawU%3D
argh! so david yates cut the part where harry and ginny really got to talk to each other..it wouldn't hurt the movie if he didn't cut it..it would just be a minute longer! harry and hermione got to dance in the film even though it's not in the book while harry and ginny can't even have a conversation beyond two sentences..how is that fair?:( I could be wrong, but in my recollection the conversation between Harry and Ginny was no shorter than this bit. They just talked about something different. However, this text, if legit, is more meaningful. I would have loved if it somehow had been made clear that Harry decided not to be with Ginny to keep her safe.

Found the scrip in PDF format (www.mypdfscripts.com/download/1446)

Here's the full scene:

37 INT. KITCHEN - MORNING (SECONDS LATER) 37

The DAILY PROPHET lies in f.g., HEADLINE SCREAMING:
“DUMBLEDORE’S DARK SECRETS.” We HEAR FOOTSTEPS descend
the stairs... then Harry’s blurry figure steps INTO FOCUS
and takes the paper for a closer inspection.

RITA SKEETER grins up at him, holding a BOOK entitled The
Life and Lies of Albus Dumbledore. A bit further down,
another headline: “Think You Know Dumbledore? Think
Again!”

GINNY (O.S.)
Were you going to tell me?

Harry turns, finds Ginny in the doorway in a beautiful
dress.

HARRY
Yes.

GINNY
And Ron and Hermione. They’ll not
be going back to Hogwarts either?

Harry stares at her. She looks excruciatingly beautiful
in the light streaming through the window.

GINNY
I see.

HARRY
Dumbledore didn’t want anyone to
know what it is we’re doing. If I
tell you, I’d be betraying him.

GINNY
Zip me up, will you.

She turns. The dress is open to the small of her back.
Harry steps forward and takes the zipper. As the panels
close, concealing her skin, his fingers linger at the
top, lightly brushing the nape of her neck. They stand
like this, utterly still, the moment fraught.

GINNY
Seems silly, doesn’t it? A
wedding. Given everything that’s
going on.

HARRY
Maybe that’s the best reason to
have it. Because of everything
that’s going on.

Her chin turns, coming into profile, her face very close.
Then she folds into him and they are kissing. Long.
Deep.

George wanders in brushing his teeth, pours himself a cup
of tea and, sticking the toothbrush in his ear-hole,
leans back against the stove for a sip. Ginny -- sensing
something -- opens her eyes and JUMPS. Harry wheels.
George winks, tips his cup in their direction.

GEORGE
Morning.


The flow seems a bit off. But the script looks legit. Not sure where it came from.

If it is legit, it's just lousy that they cut this dialogue.

^^^^^ Thank you for that. Its certainly plausible that it is real, shame if they cut it, but I can kinda see why, I agree the flow of conversation is a bit off.

http://s3.amazonaws.com/data.tumblr.com/tumblr_ledvuzK3L61qe16q4o1_1280.png?AWSAccessKeyId =0RYTHV9YYQ4W5Q3HQMG2&Expires=1294068984&Signature=J64Gu8t9sfKuOy84YWy63ZrTawU%3D
argh! so david yates cut the part where harry and ginny really got to talk to each other..it wouldn't hurt the movie if he didn't cut it..it would just be a minute longer! harry and hermione got to dance in the film even though it's not in the book while harry and ginny can't even have a conversation beyond two sentences..how is that fair?:(



I know how you feel. It seems meaningful scenes that would only enhance the relationships between Harry/Ginny and Ron/Hermione are cut, but random, pointless, at least IMO, Harry/Hermione scenes make the movie. So frustrating.

I know how you feel. It seems meaningful scenes that would only enhance the relationships between Harry/Ginny and Ron/Hermione are cut, but random, pointless, at least IMO, Harry/Hermione scenes make the movie. So frustrating.

Add Harry/Luna and Harry/ Waitress to the random, pointless scenes added.:td:

I know how you feel. It seems meaningful scenes that would only enhance the relationships between Harry/Ginny and Ron/Hermione are cut, but random, pointless, at least IMO, Harry/Hermione scenes make the movie. So frustrating.

Well, there had to be some Harry/Hermione scenes once Ron left. There was the aftermath of Ron's leaving, and the trip to Godric's Hollow. There can't be Ron/Hermione scenes when Ron's not there. I think it's quite likely that there will be more Hermione/Ron scenes in DH2.

Well, there had to be some Harry/Hermione scenes once Ron left. There was the aftermath of Ron's leaving, and the trip to Godric's Hollow. There can't be Ron/Hermione scenes when Ron's not there. I think it's quite likely that there will be more Hermione/Ron scenes in DH2.

I didn't say there should have been. That argument clearly would have made no sense. I wasn't referring to the time when Ron was gone. I was referring to the whole movie. Ron and Hermione should have had one scene alone, and Harry and Ginny should have at least had a better talk then they did, but instead they cut their scenes and Harry and Hermione get all the alone/Intimate scenes.

I didn't say there should have been. That argument clearly would have made no sense. I wasn't referring to the time when Ron was gone. I was referring to the whole movie. Ron and Hermione should have had one scene alone, and Harry and Ginny should have at least had a better talk then they did, but instead they cut their scenes and Harry and Hermione get all the alone/Intimate scenes.

The way I see it, "alone" scenes aren't as important as what emotions are conveyed between the "couples" in any scene. I don't think that Ron & Hermione were shorted in DH1, but I wasn't really counting. When it hits my local 2nd-run theatre, I'll make a point to count any scene where 2 characters are conveying any emotion about each other, whether romantic or platonic. You may be right, but the way I remember it, I thought they did OK with both Ron/Hermione & Harry/Ginny (especially as Ginny wasn't in the story much, no real way to fix that).

The way I see it, "alone" scenes aren't as important as what emotions are conveyed between the "couples" in any scene. I don't think that Ron & Hermione were shorted in DH1, but I wasn't really counting. When it hits my local 2nd-run theatre, I'll make a point to count any scene where 2 characters are conveying any emotion about each other, whether romantic or platonic. You may be right, but the way I remember it, I thought they did OK with both Ron/Hermione & Harry/Ginny (especially as Ginny wasn't in the story much, no real way to fix that).



They may have done OK with Ron/Hermione, but when you compare that to how they portray Harry and Hermione's relationship, it's nothing really. An alone scene with Ron/Hermione would have gone a long way in showing their feelings, particularly Hermione's feelings, for each other. When one "couple" is so blatantly favored over others, it's hard not to notice the difference in the scenes.

Found the scrip in PDF format (www.mypdfscripts.com/download/1446)

Here's the full scene:

37 INT. KITCHEN - MORNING (SECONDS LATER) 37

The DAILY PROPHET lies in f.g., HEADLINE SCREAMING:
“DUMBLEDORE’S DARK SECRETS.” We HEAR FOOTSTEPS descend
the stairs... then Harry’s blurry figure steps INTO FOCUS
and takes the paper for a closer inspection.

RITA SKEETER grins up at him, holding a BOOK entitled The
Life and Lies of Albus Dumbledore. A bit further down,
another headline: “Think You Know Dumbledore? Think
Again!”

GINNY (O.S.)
Were you going to tell me?

Harry turns, finds Ginny in the doorway in a beautiful
dress.

HARRY
Yes.

GINNY
And Ron and Hermione. They’ll not
be going back to Hogwarts either?

Harry stares at her. She looks excruciatingly beautiful
in the light streaming through the window.

GINNY
I see.

HARRY
Dumbledore didn’t want anyone to
know what it is we’re doing. If I
tell you, I’d be betraying him.

GINNY
Zip me up, will you.

She turns. The dress is open to the small of her back.
Harry steps forward and takes the zipper. As the panels
close, concealing her skin, his fingers linger at the
top, lightly brushing the nape of her neck. They stand
like this, utterly still, the moment fraught.

GINNY
Seems silly, doesn’t it? A
wedding. Given everything that’s
going on.

HARRY
Maybe that’s the best reason to
have it. Because of everything
that’s going on.

Her chin turns, coming into profile, her face very close.
Then she folds into him and they are kissing. Long.
Deep.

George wanders in brushing his teeth, pours himself a cup
of tea and, sticking the toothbrush in his ear-hole,
leans back against the stove for a sip. Ginny -- sensing
something -- opens her eyes and JUMPS. Harry wheels.
George winks, tips his cup in their direction.

GEORGE
Morning.


The flow seems a bit off. But the script looks legit. Not sure where it came from.

If it is legit, it's just lousy that they cut this dialogue.

If this is real, that makes me sad. Keeping this dialogue could have certainly improved the scene.

They may have done OK with Ron/Hermione, but when you compare that to how they portray Harry and Hermione's relationship, it's nothing really. An alone scene with Ron/Hermione would have gone a long way in showing their feelings, particularly Hermione's feelings, for each other. When one "couple" is so blatantly favored over others, it's hard not to notice the difference in the scenes.
I really keep trying to understand your reasons for feeling this way.
But I just can't help but thinking that the Harry/Hermione friendship, as well as the Harry/Ron friendship is more important, from the film's perspective, than the Ron/Hermione romance. There's no point in having Ron/Hermione alone moments in the films--We don't see them in the book, so it's only expected that we don't see them in the film. It's Harry's story.

It's more upsetting that the Harry/Ginny scenes get cut/shortened like they are, than the lack of Ron/Hermione alone scenes, imo.

You just really like Ron & Hermione's romance, don't you? :D
I just really think the film-makers are more concerned with the dynamics of the trio, rather than 'a couple, plus Harry,' because that's what it would feel like if they chose to give Ron & Hermione's romance more attention that it already gets. Plus, they aren't even officially a couple until the very end of DH. The movies have made them more couple-like throughout the series than the books ever did, imo. The films are absolutely filled with hints that Ron and Hermione love each other. I can't see why more is needed. There's so many Ron/Hermione moments to discuss; why constantly complain about what isn't there to discuss?

I think Ron and Hermione will get their share of romantic moments in DHpart2, so never lose hope. I am more disappointed by how they portayed Harry and Ginny. This would have been the first moment in the films where they actually got to talk but oh well..

To alsp and PrezLeefun, I actually got it at tumblr here: http://harryginnydaily.tumblr.com/ It's popular for all things Harry and Ginny!:) It looks real since they also got the part where George walks in and says, Moorning! But I'm not entirely sure..Anyways, I also love the part in DH1 where Harry shouts "Ginny!" in the wedding..it was so sweet!

Yeah, I agree that the films have done a decent enough job with the R/Hr relationship. The problem, imo, is with the trio dynamics and the persistent portrayal of Ron as comic relief.

From PoA through HBP, the film makers have had a tendency to show H/Hr as the more important friendship and Ron as more of a tag along, imo. This tendency was thankfully reversed in DH1. The trio dynamics in this film felt much closer to the trio in the books. :tu:

Where the films have utterly failed is with the H/G relationship. It's not really that the couple need more screentime. It's more the quality of the scenes they are given. The dialogue is often cringe worthy. And even when it isn't, it's so superficial that a non book reader might assume H/G are simply close acquaintances who occasionally like to kiss.

The H/G DH scene was nice and it's clear they like each other, but just the inclusion of the cut dialogue from the script (or something else along similar lines) would have gone a long way towards showing that Ginny is more than just superficially involved in Harry's life.

Having Harry think about Ginny at some point during the camping trip, even if it was just once, would have gone a long way towards portraying Ginny as someone who is important to Harry, not just someone who is 'out of sight. . . out of mind'.

I don't really have much hope that DH2 will be much of an improvement. I think the film makers are banking on the fact that viewers will simply accept that H/G end up together because Harry has to end up with someone, so why not Ginny.

If this is real, that makes me sad. Keeping this dialogue could have certainly improved the scene.


I really keep trying to understand your reasons for feeling this way.
But I just can't help but thinking that the Harry/Hermione friendship, as well as the Harry/Ron friendship is more important, from the film's perspective, than the Ron/Hermione romance. There's no point in having Ron/Hermione alone moments in the films--We don't see them in the book, so it's only expected that we don't see them in the film. It's Harry's story.

It's more upsetting that the Harry/Ginny scenes get cut/shortened like they are, than the lack of Ron/Hermione alone scenes, imo.

You just really like Ron & Hermione's romance, don't you? :D
I just really think the film-makers are more concerned with the dynamics of the trio, rather than 'a couple, plus Harry,' because that's what it would feel like if they chose to give Ron & Hermione's romance more attention that it already gets. Plus, they aren't even officially a couple until the very end of DH. The movies have made them more couple-like throughout the series than the books ever did, imo. The films are absolutely filled with hints that Ron and Hermione love each other. I can't see why more is needed. There's so many Ron/Hermione moments to discuss; why constantly complain about what isn't there to discuss?

Well I disagree that there's no point in having Ron and Hermione alone scenes. I think even one that was as intimate as the dance was would go along way and only enhance the movie. It does a disservice to the story and the movies IMO to put one relationship as being more important then the others, or over the trio in general. They have done such a disservice to Ron by doing this.