Romantic moments & that scene in Deathly Hallows [Archive] - Page 5

MsBinns

January 4th, 2011, 12:00 am

I think for me, no matter how much I enjoy the Ron and Hermione romance, I enjoy the subtle moments in the films because that is really all we got in the books. We got little hints here and there that gradually these characters were falling for each other. THAT to me is what makes their relationship so wonderful. I adore all these little bits along the way - from the perfume Ron gives her 5th year to her kissing him on the cheek before his first Quidditch match and him looking all puzzled by it. I know I probably stand alone here, but I quite like that we don't get these heavy-handed scenes of the two of them alone flirting with each other (which is how the skipping stones scene sounds a bit like to me). That's never quite how I read Ron and Hermione. There was never much flirtation, unless you count all the bickering of course. Now, I will gladly eat crow when/if this scene shows up on the DVD and I love it, but I am currently glad it didn't appear in the film.

Additionally, I think there is something to be said for the fact that there was (to my knowledge) never a description in the book of Ron looking at Hermione the way he does at the wedding or at Grimmauld Place, which is a "my God, I love this girl" look that Rupert absolutely nails. That look to me spoke volumes. To me it's also a perfect way of addressing the point their relationship is at by now. They're aware of their feelings, making no effort to hide them, but still not acting on them explicitly. The way Ron's return scene and conversation at the tent was shot was also striking. That scene was essentially Ron talking to Hermione, almost to the exclusion of Harry. It was, as many have said, essentially a declaration of love. I think this is a scene most filmmakers could have easily screwed up (personally, I always find the little ball of light going into his chest a bit trite). I think they did a wonderful job scripting and filming the scene so it came off more touching than it did cheezy, but that's just my two cents.

I will not deny that there are things in the films regarding Ron's character that annoy me to no end (mainly Ron agreeing with Snape instead of disagreeing with him and getting detention in PoA and the ridiculous exclusion of him from the end of HBP), but such is life. I'm glad with what we got!

PotterGurl08

January 4th, 2011, 12:28 am

I think for me, no matter how much I enjoy the Ron and Hermione romance, I enjoy the subtle moments in the films because that is really all we got in the books. We got little hints here and there that gradually these characters were falling for each other. THAT to me is what makes their relationship so wonderful. I adore all these little bits along the way - from the perfume Ron gives her 5th year to her kissing him on the cheek before his first Quidditch match and him looking all puzzled by it. I know I probably stand alone here, but I quite like that we don't get these heavy-handed scenes of the two of them alone flirting with each other (which is how the skipping stones scene sounds a bit like to me). That's never quite how I read Ron and Hermione. There was never much flirtation, unless you count all the bickering of course. Now, I will gladly eat crow when/if this scene shows up on the DVD and I love it, but I am currently glad it didn't appear in the film.

Oh, you certaintly aren't standing alone with this. I'm right there with you, lol. We obviously can't say whether the stone-skipping scene is good or not yet until we have a chance to see it, but it makes sense to me that it got cut.

Additionally, I think there is something to be said for the fact that there was (to my knowledge) never a description in the book of Ron looking at Hermione the way he does at the wedding or at Grimmauld Place, which is a "my God, I love this girl" look that Rupert absolutely nails. That look to me spoke volumes. To me it's also a perfect way of addressing the point their relationship is at by now. They're aware of their feelings, making no effort to hide them, but still not acting on them explicitly. The way Ron's return scene and conversation at the tent was shot was also striking. That scene was essentially Ron talking to Hermione, almost to the exclusion of Harry. It was, as many have said, essentially a declaration of love. I think this is a scene most filmmakers could have easily screwed up (personally, I always find the little ball of light going into his chest a bit trite). I think they did a wonderful job scripting and filming the scene so it came off more touching than it did cheezy, but that's just my two cents.
I mostly agree here too. The movies, from what I see, imply Ron & Hermione's feelings for each other much more than the books do. The books are way more subtle, imo. I feel like the film-makers are more aware that 'subtle' often doesn't work well with movie audiences. So it's more noticeable in the films, but thankfully, it doesn't cross over into quite "in-your-face" with blantant heavy flirtation between the two, because I think that frankly would be too out of character for them.

Must confess...I did find the 'ball of light' speech quite cheezy.
Thus, I was thoroughly happy with Harry's friendly teasing with Ron later in the tent over it. :lol: I thought that scene was the perfect save--It restored Harry & Ron's friendship, and it showcased that Harry wasn't interested in Hermione that way and actually was hoping for Ron & Hermione to work things out.

alsp

January 4th, 2011, 1:14 am

If anyone has taken a look at the script, it's interesting to see all the cuts. Harry's "she's like a sister to me" line was in the script, but was axed at some point.

Kloves takes a lot of heat from the fan base, when a lot of the time it turns out the lines are cut by the director or the editors.

bitsy40

January 4th, 2011, 1:27 am

I think for me, no matter how much I enjoy the Ron and Hermione romance, I enjoy the subtle moments in the films because that is really all we got in the books. We got little hints here and there that gradually these characters were falling for each other. THAT to me is what makes their relationship so wonderful. I adore all these little bits along the way - from the perfume Ron gives her 5th year to her kissing him on the cheek before his first Quidditch match and him looking all puzzled by it. I know I probably stand alone here, but I quite like that we don't get these heavy-handed scenes of the two of them alone flirting with each other (which is how the skipping stones scene sounds a bit like to me). That's never quite how I read Ron and Hermione. There was never much flirtation, unless you count all the bickering of course.

...a "my God, I love this girl" look that Rupert absolutely nails. That look to me spoke volumes. To me it's also a perfect way of addressing the point their relationship is at by now. They're aware of their feelings, making no effort to hide them, but still not acting on them explicitly. The way Ron's return scene and conversation at the tent was shot was also striking. That scene was essentially Ron talking to Hermione, almost to the exclusion of Harry. It was, as many have said, essentially a declaration of love.

You are not alone in this thinking! We get more in the movies than we did in the book, mainly because we saw it from Harry's view and he didn't always see things the way they really were. I thought the movies were always very R/H strong and never got a strong H/G OR H/H vibe.

A flirtatious scene with R/H would not be in character at all! That was simply not how their relationship worked. :no:
Plus, there have been moments in the movies where R/H give each other a knowing look when speaking to Harry, letting the audience know that they have had conversations alone. No need to actually show these and take up more time on useless exposition.

If anyone has taken a look at the script, it's interesting to see all the cuts. Harry's "she's like a sister to me" line was in the script, but was axed at some point.

Kloves takes a lot of heat from the fan base, when a lot of the time it turns out the lines are cut by the director or the editors.

Exactly! Not having seen these scenes we can't say how they fit in the flow of the film and we don't know what the thought process was for cutting them. I'm not saying they are always a wise choice, but a lot of thought goes into what is cut and what stays.

MsBinns

January 4th, 2011, 1:31 am

Must confess...I did find the 'ball of light' speech quite cheezy.
Thus, I was thoroughly happy with Harry's friendly teasing with Ron later in the tent over it. :lol: I thought that scene was the perfect save--It restored Harry & Ron's friendship, and it showcased that Harry wasn't interested in Hermione that way and actually was hoping for Ron & Hermione to work things out.

The speech itself is just so darn cheezy! I really was afraid of how it would come across in the films. I don't know how they could have done it any better. The actual content of the speech is just unbelievably cheezy. I thought they did as good a job as they could have. But yes, the conversation with Harry and his friendly teasing was wonderful!

deadly_artemis

January 4th, 2011, 2:16 am

I love those subtle moments too!! And I believe in the films, Ron and Hermione's feelings are made very clear (with the exception of HBP when it seems like Ron doesn't care about her at all, but I've just chosen to ignore all that).

Another big reason (that I don't think has been mentioned yet) of why the portrayal in the films, and especially DH1, is near perfect is because if R/Hr had some big in-your-face moment where they are canoodling or flirting, then their alone moment and kiss in DH2 wouldn't mean as much. They are giving us all these hints of Ron and Hermione being together, but it's smart to keep the big payoff from us until the end. Their kiss and the chamber of secrets moment wouldn't be as powerful if they had other scenes that were too "intimate" between them. I'm really happy with what we've been given in this movie. :)

GingerCat1

January 4th, 2011, 4:32 am

Do we know if they filmed all the scenes that were in the newly released script or was it a old script that was modified and changed before shooting started?

SummerBelle

January 4th, 2011, 7:31 am

While I agree Bonnie and Dan don't have good natural chemistry, I don't think that's why the scene was cut. D/B weren't that bad in the DH1 scene. And the extra dialogue would have helped to show that Ginny is more than superficially involved in Harry's life.

And how hard would it have been to add one or two moments during the camping scene to have Harry think about Ginny? I mean, come on!

Imo, the film makers are just incredibly lazy when it comes to H/G. And that's really a shame.

I think Dan and Bonnie have chemistry but it's not strong compared to Dan and Emma's, which is really sad. Yes! the extra dialogue would have helped A LOT and why cut it when it would only be a minute longer? They didn't even show the actual kiss between them.:grumble: It's really frustating the way they had been handling H/G in the films so far. Harry did not even mention Ginny's name ONCE during the camping. The audience (who haven't read the books) are left with a sense that what they have is superficial.

When they first met at the Burrow, Harry didn't even act happy to see Ginny..I wouldn't be surprised if they gave Ginny's line, "He'll be alright" to Hermione in the epilogue. I love Hermione but the film makers have to realize that it's Ginny that Harry ends up with.

alsp

January 4th, 2011, 2:49 pm

Do we know if they filmed all the scenes that were in the newly released script or was it a old script that was modified and changed before shooting started?

The last revision date on the script is 6/11/10, so it does seem like it was a final script. I'm guessing all the scenes in the script were filmed, but then cut in the editing process.

Originally posted by SummerBelle: I think Dan and Bonnie have chemistry but it's not strong compared to Dan and Emma's, which is really sad. Yes! the extra dialogue would have helped A LOT and why cut it when it would only be a minute longer?

I agree SummerBelle. The H/G romance is only a small part of the story so I never expected it to have a lot of screen time. But what screen time it does have should show that the two have a deep connection that will eventually lead to marriage.

Even given that Dan and Bonnie don't have a lot of natural chemistry, it is the film makers job to help them develop it. And to develop chemistry you need good material to work with.

The filmmakers have utterly failed in this respect. Canon offered plenty of H/G moments and dialogue for the film makers to choose from, but with very few exceptions every single H/G canon moment from OotP through DH was scrapped and replaced with cheesy or superficial dialogue, for the most part.

They didn't even show the actual kiss between them. It's really frustrating the way they had been handling H/G in the films so far.

I know, it's very frustrating! They did shoot the kiss scene from various angles. I've seen a number of shots of the kiss straight on that look really nice. But ultimately they went with the angle that would show George sneaking into the kitchen, even though that meant a bad angle for the kiss.

The sad thing is they could have done both: first start out with a good angle for the kiss and then switch over to the angle where George is sneaking in. But apparently it was more important to make the scene as short as possible even though it was the only H/G scene in the whole movie. It really makes no sense. :hmm:

Harry did not even mention Ginny's name ONCE during the camping. The audience (who haven't read the books) are left with a sense that what they have is superficial.

Exactly. In the films, Ginny is 'out of sight. . . out of mind' as far as Harry is concerned. It would have been so easy to fix this, by adding a moment or two during the Grimmauld Place or Camping scenes where Harry thinks about Ginny. There were plenty of places they could have done it with out affecting the flow at all. But once again, it was apparently not deemed important enough to spare a moment. :no:

LyraLovegood

January 4th, 2011, 6:38 pm

I don't think Bonnie & Dan have much chemistry at all, and I found the whole "zip me up" kiss sequence absolutely cringe-worthy.

I like the subtelty or R/Hr in the movies, from the pure canon hands-almost-touching at Grimmauld place to the "I'm always mad at him" line as they walked up to Xeno's tower.

I really wish they'd kept in Harry's line about Hermione being like a sister to him, and I agree that having him follow Ginny's name on the Marauder's Map would have been a good way to show the depths of his feelings for her. I also think her name should have come up during the Ron/Harry argument about why he was listening to the radio; Harry should have said something about how important Ron's family was to him, especially Ginny.

But I loved the "ball of light" story, both in the book and in the film. I agree that it's cheezy, but you know what? I love cheese. To me, no meal (outside of perhaps breakfast, and I do want cheese if I'm having an omelette or hash and eggs for breakfast) is complete without cheese, and no romance is perfect without a touch of cheese.

And Harry's line about Hermione coming 'round if Ron just kept talking about the ball of light touching Ron's heart tied it up beautifully like a ribbon on a package.

But if there is a Ron&Hermione scene, alone in the Chamber of Secrets during the Battle for Hogwarts . . . oy. Spoiler tags please, people. Even knowing such a scene has been written/planned/shot is too much information for me! Or is this thread not supposed to be a spoiler-free one?

SummerBelle

January 5th, 2011, 8:45 am

weasley9

January 5th, 2011, 1:43 pm

The "She's like my sister" line would be like a nail in the coffin for H/Hr shippers so Steve Kloves (who is an obvious H/Hr shipper) wouldn't even think of including that line in the films IMHO

That line was in the Kloves's script. It was cut when editing the film.

Pearl_Took

January 5th, 2011, 2:59 pm

That line was in the Kloves's script. It was cut when editing the film.

:tu:

And, as I have said before, professional script-writers and film-makers are not 'shippers. At any rate, they don't take any of this half as seriously as the fandom do.

As for 'cheesy' dialogue, I honestly don't see a huge amount of difference in quality between the dialogue in the films and the dialogue in the books. :whistle: Where the teen romances are concerned, that is. :)

MagicianGirl

January 5th, 2011, 5:08 pm

I don't think Bonnie & Dan have much chemistry at all, and I found the whole "zip me up" kiss sequence absolutely cringe-worthy.

Chemistry is a subjective thing. I for one don't find any Dan and Emma chemistry and I think Rupert and Emma has one...however I don't think it's the "lack of chemistry" that's too blame for H/G...it's the material or lack of it that's been given esp to Bonnie Wright.

The movies imo tend to portray Ginny as meek and mousy which is a total opposite in the books whereas it tends to portray Hermione as the girl all the boys want:rolleyes:. The filmmakers seemed to love shoving the idea of H/Hr:grumble: every chance they got.

Erisa

January 5th, 2011, 5:16 pm

I really don’t think the filmmakers are Harry and Hermione shippers. I think it’s been made clear that Ron and Hermione like each other. The marketing team, on the other hand, tends to create a sort of "love triangle” that doesn’t exist in the films themselves. But that’s marketing and not what’s in the final product.

The only thing I reproach Kloves is that he tends to make Hermione seem more important to Harry than Ron and since he has said Hermione is his favourite character, that’s not really surprising. In my opinion, the only problems the films have in regards to romance are the different trio dynamic (compared to the books) and the way Ginny has been poorly written.

MagicianGirl

January 5th, 2011, 5:24 pm

SopophorousBean

January 5th, 2011, 5:35 pm

I agree that Ron and Harry's argument would have been a PERFECT moment for the film makers to show that Harry cares for Ginny. When Ron mentioned Ginny's name, Harry could have said that he cares for Ginny as much as Ron. (I actually liked it when Ron said, "To make sure I don't hear Ginny's name" I definitely felt his emotions there.) When Harry brought the Marauder's Map to look at Snape's name, Harry could have glimpsed Ginny's name..what would it take? one second? or maybe three seconds at most? So many missed chances...

I agree they missed so many chances here, in the book we know Harry is thinking of Ginny but obviously that's something that's incredibly hard to get across in the films but there were oppurtunities like you say. I was convinced when he got out the Marauder's Map they would show Ginny's dot :( and that argument was the perfect time to throw in Harry's feelings for Ginny.

it's the material or lack of it that's been given esp to Bonnie Wright.

The movies imo tend to portray Ginny as meek and mousy which is a total opposite in the books.

These are my main problems with the films, Ginny is my favourite character and they've cut out her personality altogether, and if they don't show that it's very hard to get across the chemistry between Harry and Ginny as characters, and Bonnie and Dan haven't had nearly enough screentime/dialogue together.

Erin6

January 5th, 2011, 6:16 pm

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I really don’t think the filmmakers are Harry and Hermione shippers

I couldn't disagree more. It's very obvious to me who the filmmakers and the WB perfer. Nothing will ever convince me otherwise. Do we even know if that script is legit?

alsp

January 5th, 2011, 9:39 pm

It's not been confirmed legit. But take a look at it. The whole movie is there with all the dialogue exactly like in the film (but with additional lines/scenes that were apparently edited).

It would be incredibly difficult for someone to fake that.

The biggest difference I can see is that the script ends right before the Malfoy Manor scene. So there's no torture scene or Dobby's death, etc.

PotterGurl08

January 5th, 2011, 10:35 pm

All those unnecessary touches between H/Hr which didn't happened in the books imo, Harry has never been one who touches other character much less as letting someone leans her head on the his shoulder like Hermione did in HBP and DH, in the books...the dance was very unnecessary and the H/Hr kiss had lasted longer than H/G's. If I never read the books and just go by the movie I would never even considered the possiblity of H/G because of the way H/Hr were portrayed.
I don't know...Reading the books the first time around, I thought it was possibly going to be H/Hr prior to HBP. The book Harry & Hermione are far more "touchy" than Ron & Hermione (which is why I thought the pairing was heading toward H/Hr). But in retrospect, it is clear that this is because Harry and Hermione are more comfortable around each other than Ron and Hermione. This is because Harry and Hermione have nothing but friendship. There touches/hugs/kisses on the cheek happen easily and without any awkwardness. Touches between Ron & Hermione are more calculated because there is that attraction there between the two. And I think the movies portray this--the easiness between the physical interactions between Harry and Hermione, and the more tension-filled and cautious physical interaction between Ron & Hermione because they have romantic feelings for each other.

But I agree that Ginny gets the short end of the stick in the books and that IMO hampered Bonnie's time to shine. It's as if the filmmakers are reluctant to give Emma's Hermione a competition on the spotlight.
Ginny does get the short end of the stick though, lol. Her character could be so much better.
I don't think she could ever really compete for the 'spotlight' with Hermione though. Hermione is the leading female character; Ginny isn't.
But Ginny most definitely could be given better lines and scenes than what she gets.

weasley9

January 5th, 2011, 11:14 pm

The biggest difference I can see is that the script ends right before the Malfoy Manor scene. So there's no torture scene or Dobby's death, etc.

This was the original split point, so it makes sense that the script (which is a rough draft) ends there. They only switched to Shell Cottage at the last minute. :)

:tu:

And, as I have said before, professional script-writers and film-makers are not 'shippers. At any rate, they don't take any of this half as seriously as the fandom do.

:agree: I do think there is a bit of favortism towards Hermione, but I do not think this has anything to do with some personal vendetta towards Ron and the R/Hr ship.

GingerCat1

January 5th, 2011, 11:33 pm

:agree: I do think there is a bit of favortism towards Hermione, but I do not think this has anything to do with some personal vendetta towards Ron and the R/Hr ship.

Kloves has admitted to Hermione being his favourite character and the recently released script of Deathly Hallows really does show this.

Here is some exerts from that script

--------------------------------------------
HERMIONE
Harry. I can imagine why you’d
want to go there, but... I don’t
think Bathilda Bagshot is going to
know where Voldemort hid his
Horcruxes.

Harry starts to respond, frowns. Hermione reaches out,
touches his face lightly.
--------------------------------------------

--------------------------------------------
Harry turns the MIRROR SHARD over in his fingers, then
eyes Hermione collecting flowers in the distance. She
looks beautiful. Seeing him, she smiles, waves, moves
on. The RADIO SPITS STATIC and he TILTS THE MIRROR so he
can see Ron. He looks annoyed, slips the mirror in his pocket.
--------------------------------------------

--------------------------------------------
Harry’s eyes flutter open. He sees Hermione, beautiful
in the amber dusk, standing a bit away, studying him.
--------------------------------------------

--------------------------------------------
In the shadows, Ron lies on his back, staring gloomily at
the pitched ceiling of the tent, listening to the RADIO’S
MURMUR, while Hermione, WEARING A RED SCARF AGAINST THE
CHILL, runs the fingers of her left hand through Harry’s
hair, alternately employing the wand in her right hand to
trim Harry’s hair and flip the pages of A History of
Magic.
--------------------------------------------

--------------------------------------------
She
peers one last time toward the trees, then, without
turning, reaches out her hand. Harry studies her, then
steps forward, gently takes her fingers in his.
--------------------------------------------

--------------------------------------------
HARRY
Hermione...

Words fail him. Hermione reaches out, lightly strokes
his hair as she heads toward the tent.
--------------------------------------------

--------------------------------------------
He holds out his arm and Hermione takes it. They move
off.
EXT. TOWN CENTER - NIGHT (MOMENTS LATER)
121 121
Harry and Hermione walk, arms linked.
--------------------------------------------

--------------------------------------------
Harry pushes through a gate, then lets go of Hermione’s
hand,
--------------------------------------------

--------------------------------------------
HERMIONE
He loved you, Harry. I know he
loved you.

She trails her fingers lightly over his hair, and he
closes his eyes.
--------------------------------------------

bitsy40

January 5th, 2011, 11:48 pm

Kloves has admitted to Hermione being his favourite character and the recently released script of Deathly Hallows really does show this.

Here is some exerts from that script

I think that you would be able to find just as many moments like this between Ron and Hermione too.

Also, these are not romantic moments...these are moments between friends who have known each other a very long time. Physical contact does occur between friends too.

magic_is_might

January 5th, 2011, 11:50 pm

I think people are really underestimating the many R/Hr scenes and their importance to the couple.

:shrug:

GingerCat1

January 5th, 2011, 11:51 pm

Erin6

January 5th, 2011, 11:59 pm

I think that you would be able to find just as many moments like this between Ron and Hermione too.

Also, these are not romantic moments...these are moments between friends who have known each other a very long time. Physical contact does occur between friends too.

There really aren't moments like that between Ron/Hermione. They aren't touchy feely at all, and they were in the DH book, but instead of keeping those touches in the movie, they are all taken out and Harry and Hermione are given the hugs and the touches. Friends don't reach out and touch another friends face, at least not IMO. That's a romantic gesture. It has always bothered me that every touch and hug pretty much from the book involving Harry/Hermione is kept in and yet hardly any of the hugs are kept in between Ron and Hermione. Even Hermione kissing Ron on the cheek for luck was taken out. It's a total bias by the writers.

bitsy40

January 6th, 2011, 12:02 am

The problem is that in the books Harry isn't touchy feely. He doesn't seek out physical contact from Hermione like he does in the movies and he certainly doesn't look at her and think she is beautiful like he did in the script written by Kloves.

The movies are not the books. In the book you have the advantage of reading Harry's thoughts. If you didn't have some of these scenes like this, the non-book reading audience (majority) would think that Harry was an unfeeling jerk. They need to add some of these moments so we understand that these characters do relate to each other.

MsBinns

January 6th, 2011, 12:03 am

I think I've made my stance on this all relatively clear. My enjoyment of the Ron/Hermione romance in the films is secondary to my love of the story as a whole. I do not believe there is some anti Ron/Hermione agenda out there. I love all the subtle moments (and the not so subtle ones) that they include in the films. I didn't mind the dance and quite enjoyed it. However, I do have to say that script was a bit odd. Granted, I'm not reading the entire thing in context and I have no doubt there are some wonderful Ron/Hermione moments throughout, but reading that definitely didn't feel like a Harry Potter script. Both Harry and Hermione seem very out of character to me. The above poster is correct in saying Harry seeking out physical contact and admiring Hermione's beauty from afar is not really something that comes across in the books.

Such is the joy of film adaptation, I suppose...

Erin6

January 6th, 2011, 12:06 am

The movies are not the books. In the book you have the advantage of reading Harry's thoughts. If you didn't have some of these scenes like this, the non-book reading audience (majority) would think that Harry was an unfeeling jerk. They need to add some of these moments so we understand that these characters do relate to each other.

A few moments is one thing, but it's constant between Harry/Hermione. Pretty much every hug/touch from the book plus added scenes, while Ron and Hermione and Harry and Ginny are lucky to get even a third of what occurs between them in the book.

bitsy40

January 6th, 2011, 12:10 am

A few moments is one thing, but it's constant between Harry/Hermione. Pretty much every hug/touch from the book plus added scenes, while Ron and Hermione and Harry and Ginny are lucky to get even a third of what occurs between them in the book.

I guess we all see things in a different way. I've made my point and will have to agree that we will not agree on this. :shrug:

PotterGurl08

January 6th, 2011, 1:12 am

I think people are really underestimating the many R/Hr scenes and their importance to the couple.

:shrug:

:agree:
I think that regardless of how many H/Hr moments there are, the Ron/Hr moments outnumber them--especially if we're talking about those that actually make it into the film.
As well as those that portray romance...

The problem is that in the books Harry isn't touchy feely. He doesn't seek out physical contact from Hermione like he does in the movies and he certainly doesn't look at her and think she is beautiful like he did in the script written by Kloves.
Actually...a lot of those scenes you posted makes Hermione seem touchy, not Harry. :shrug:
Maybe she is a bit touchy. She touches Harry, Ginny, Tonks, Hagrid...lol.
Ron, not as much, because she likes him...makes touching a bit more awkward I suppose. :D

The movies are not the books. In the book you have the advantage of reading Harry's thoughts. If you didn't have some of these scenes like this, the non-book reading audience (majority) would think that Harry was an unfeeling jerk. They need to add some of these moments so we understand that these characters do relate to each other.
:agree:

scooby

January 6th, 2011, 1:50 am

Ugh.... I had been defending the way the Harry/Hermione relationship is portrayed in this movie, but I really don't know anymore.....

I now truly think that Kloves is in love with Hermione - or at least some Emma-influenced, whitewashed idea of "Hermione" that he has in his head. I counted three references to her being "beautiful", a description of her as "stunning" in "black silk" (wth...?)....

This is just too much:

[Harry] eyes Hermione collecting flowers in the distance. She looks beautiful. Seeing him, she smiles, waves, moves on.

Collecting flowers? Puke. (Maybe I'm too cynical...) It's like a Harry/Hermione fanfic written in the style of Twilight.... Thank god that was cut.

Even worse:

The RADIO SPITS STATIC and he TILTS THE MIRROR so he can see Ron. He looks annoyed, but holds his tongue and slips the mirror in his pocket. Noticing the locket, he slips it from his shirt, studies

So Harry is so bowled over by the vision of loveliness that is Hermione that the very sight of his best friend annoys him...? O-kay, Kloves....

Don't even get me started on Hermione looking beautiful in the "amber dusk"....

I mean, is Kloves talking about the same girl?! Ginny - y'know, that little-mentioned character, who just happens to be Harry's girlfriend - is the one who's supposed to be the hottie. Hermione is not a very physically attractive character, and, what's more, she is unkempt and unwashed and has been on the run for weeks in these scenes, so these fanfiction-esque descriptions are completely inappropriate.....!

I am offended as a feminist, as well as a HP fan. It's like it's not enough that Hermione is a great brain; Kloves and the filmmakers seem to feel the need to reimagine her as some great beauty. :grumble: Why do female heroines always have to be beautiful? Kloves never once mentions the appearance of Ron or Harry, except in a purely descriptive way. Bah! :grumble:

I mean, sure, Emma's a pretty girl, but is it really necessary or professional for Kloves to point that out in every other scene...? What does that add to the script? I mean, if I were Emma, I'd have been a little embarrassed to read that script.....

Does anyone else feel this way?!

On a more positive note, I was pleased to see that more of the Harry/Ron post-horcrux chat seems to have been filmed. :tu: Although, sadly, it appears that the hug was never included..... :(

Harry steps forward and -- carefully --
places a hand upon his shoulder.
HARRY
After you left, she cried for a
week. She’s like my sister.
RON
I’m sorry. I’m sorry I left.
HARRY
You’ve sort of made up for it
tonight. Getting the sword.
Finishing off the Horcrux.
RON
Saving your life.
HARRY
That too.

Also, Ron got a few more Exposition!Ron scenes, which I liked, e.g., about the taboo (should've been left in the movie!), and explaining why Harry's invisibility cloak is special. On that note, the trio's discussion of the Hallows - particularly Harry's cloak - should've been kept in. Also really liked Ron's scene with Arthur. I hope it will be on the DVD. I like the way Kloves describes Ron as having "common sense" - something fans have often said about him. In fact, I quite like how Kloves writes Ron in this one: he has an edge, a fierceness, a bluntness that can border on meanness, which has been lacking from Ron's portrayal since the first movie, IMO. :tu: And Ron is allowed to reveal and contribute things in this movie. It's a shame that all this is a bit overshadowed by the extreme Hermione fixation.....

I know this has nothing to do with romance, but it was nice to see discussion of Dumbledore's past - another keeper, IMO! - and Harry being made godfather at the wedding :) (both things that could be put in Part 2, though). But STILL no mirror explanation! Very strange....
Plus, the white peacock at Malfoy Manor! :D

GingerCat1

January 6th, 2011, 2:07 am

I agree with almost everything you have said Scooby.

I mean, is Kloves talking about the same girl?! Ginny - y'know, that little-mentioned character, who just happens to be Harry's girlfriend - is the one who's supposed to be the hottie. Hermione is not a very physically attractive character, and, what's more, she is unkempt and unwashed and has been on the run for weeks in these scenes, so these fanfiction-esque descriptions are completely inappropriate.....!

I actually think Hermione is supposed to be reasonably attractive at the very least but the reason why she isn't described like that is because Harry isn't attracted to her and since the books are from Harry's perspective it is Harry's description of Hermione's appearance we get (if the books were from Ron's perspective i suspect the description of Hermione would be quite different).

I think Hermione is at the very least supposed to be reasonably attractive as in 4th year she has 3 guys (that we know of) ask her to the Yule Ball one of the being a guy who could have had practically any girl he wanted. Further evidence is Hermione going to the Christmas party with McLaggen as McLaggen to me seems like a extremely shallow person who would judge a girl solely on her looks and nothing else. The fact that he wanted to go the party with Hermione seems to indicate that he found Hermione attractive (and thus in his opinion worthy of his attention).

scooby

January 6th, 2011, 2:25 am

I agree with almost everything you have said Scooby.

I actually think Hermione is supposed to be reasonably attractive at the very least but the reason why she isn't described like that is because Harry isn't attracted to her and since the books are from Harry's perspective it is Harry's description of Hermione's appearance we get (if the books were from Ron's perspective i suspect the description of Hermione would be quite different).

I think Hermione is at the very least supposed to be reasonably attractive as in 4th year she has 3 guys (that we know of) ask her to the Yule Ball one of the being a guy who could have had practically any girl he wanted. Further evidence is Hermione going to the Christmas party with McLaggen as McLaggen to me seems like a extremely shallow person who would judge a girl solely on her looks and nothing else. The fact that he wanted to go the party with Hermione seems to indicate that he found Hermione attractive (and thus in his opinion worthy of his attention).

Thanks. :)

Okay, I might cede "reasonably attractive" by the middle of the fourth book - if bushy-haired bookworms are your thing ;).

But there is quite a large gap between "reasonably attractive" and "beautiful", and yet another significant stretch to "stunning"! I don't think even Book!Ginny merits "stunning". Maybe Fleur.

And in whose perspective is Hermione "beautiful" in this script: Harry's or Kloves'? Because either is entirely inappropriate, IMO.

And the contrast between the descriptions of Ron and Hermione is striking: while Hermione is "beautiful" in a variety of ways, Ron's face is "unwashed and wild", which surely all three would be at this point....? It just seems a bit sexist, and another example of Hermione being portrayed as some kind of perfect dreamgirl. Indeed, the camping seemed to take a far greater physical toll on Harry and Ron (especially Ron!) than Hermione, who looked suspiciously perfect in several scenes.... :grumble:

Sorry if I sound a bit touchy. :) It just really annoys me.

SummerBelle

January 6th, 2011, 2:28 am

Why did David Yates cut the "She's like my sister" line? Argh! It practically states the true feelings Harry has for Hermione! I actually cringe at how many times Kloves wrote how beautiful Hermione is. It's like, "Yes we get it! Hermione is beautiful!" I think Hermione is a bit plain while I was reading it. Emma is actually more beautiful than the image I had of Hermione in my head. I kind of imagined her to look a lot like Georgie Henley (Lucy in Narnia) with bushy hair.

As for R/Hr, I agree that were a lot of scenes all throughout DH that showed their attraction towards each other (wedding, piano scene, Ron catching Hermione in Malfoy Manor) BUT the thing that I didn't like is that Ron wasn't screaming at the cellar when Hermione was being tortured. Apart from that, R/Hr got enough screentime compared to H/G's.

Erin6

January 6th, 2011, 2:41 am

All that script proves to me is that Kloves loves Hermione and Harry and Hermione. I mean he couldn't be more obvious if he tried. Thank God most of those scenes were cut because I really think he intented to make it seem like Harry and Hermione had feelings for each other.

SummerBelle

January 6th, 2011, 2:47 am

alsp

January 6th, 2011, 3:19 am

weasley9

January 6th, 2011, 3:32 am

And the contrast between the descriptions of Ron and Hermione is striking: while Hermione is "beautiful" in a variety of ways, Ron's face is "unwashed and wild", which surely all three would be at this point....? It just seems a bit sexist, and another example of Hermione being portrayed as some kind of perfect dreamgirl. Indeed, the camping seemed to take a far greater physical toll on Harry and Ron (especially Ron!) than Hermione, who looked suspiciously perfect in several scenes.... :grumble:

Sorry if I sound a bit touchy. :) It just really annoys me.

Erm, well I figured that that was because he wanted to show a contrast between Ron's frusturation over the journey and Hermione, who is enduring better than Ron. Not everything is linked to romance.

MsBinns

January 6th, 2011, 3:42 am

magic_is_might

January 6th, 2011, 3:52 am

I thought the "Ron, that - that was nothing!" was even worse and incriminating :shrug:

weasley9

January 6th, 2011, 4:03 am

I thought the "Ron, that - that was nothing!" was even worse and incriminating :shrug:

I did dislike how we didn't even know what either of them were talking about. Was it Harry and Hermione walking back to the tent? :lol:

MsBinns

January 6th, 2011, 4:06 am

I did dislike how we didn't even know what either of them were talking about. Was it Harry and Hermione walking back to the tent? :lol:

I know! What exactly does "the other night" mean? 'Cos that should have been WEEKS prior to that conversation. Although really the only time that passes between walking back to the tent and the fight is the radio voice-over so...who knows!

Ugh. That seriously (next to Malfoy Manor) is my biggest pet peeve in the film. Hands down. I guess it speaks pretty highly of the movie that one of my biggest problems is a minor line change though!

magic_is_might

January 6th, 2011, 4:47 am

I did dislike how we didn't even know what either of them were talking about. Was it Harry and Hermione walking back to the tent? :lol:

This is what bugs me the most :lol: Just them being together in general that night?

snugglepot

January 6th, 2011, 7:42 am

I agree with you. Kloves should write a book where Harry and Hermione ends up in another planet or something..LOL He even said to JKR once that he thought H/Hr would get together in DH or something like that...I wonder what's in store for Hermione in the epilogue where she has only three lines (I think).

The way Kloves writes Hermione, she will get all of Ginny's lines, most of Ron's and half of Harry's.:grumble: She will ignore, Ron and Ginny and run over and give Harry a hug and stroke his hair.:td:
All the focus in the Epilogue will be on her and not on Harry/Ginny and their children like in the book.:grumble:
Also she will look the best. (She did in the last lot of makeup they did) She will not be allowed to look as if she has aged.:lol:

Erisa

January 6th, 2011, 4:54 pm

I couldn't disagree more. It's very obvious to me who the filmmakers and the WB perfer. Nothing will ever convince me otherwise. Do we even know if that script is legit?

It’s just my opinion, but I don’t think the filmmakers are Harry and Hermione shippers because I think they’ve made it clear in HBP and DH1 that Hermione and Ron like each other. I saw DH1 with some friends who have only seen the films and they all understood that Hermione and Ron will end up together. Only one of them thinks Harry might have some feelings for Hermione but she also thinks that Harry is aware that his best friends like each other and that he is happy for them.

It’s obvious that Hermione is Kloves’ favourite character and as such he puts her forward while Ron tends to be used as comic relief. That’s a real shame because the filmmakers make Hermione seem more important and useful to Harry than Ron. I’m probably not explaining myself clearly but while I agree that the marketing team is trying to sell a love triangle I don’t really think it exists in the films. The WB and the filmmakers might prefer Harry and Hermione but, to me, that’s not what’s happening in the films. They’ve made Hermione Harry’s best friend and that’s really, really disappointing but, to me, they’ve also made it clear she loves Ron. I don’t know if that makes sense?

And I’d also love to know if that script is legit. Because if it is, Kloves' "admiration" for Hermione is worse than I thought.

All those unnecessary touches between H/Hr which didn't happened in the books imo, Harry has never been one who touches other character much less as letting someone leans her head on the his shoulder like Hermione did in HBP and DH, in the books...the dance was very unnecessary and the H/Hr kiss had lasted longer than H/G's. If I never read the books and just go by the movie I would never even considered the possiblity of H/G because of the way H/Hr were portrayed.

I agree, Harry isn’t particularly used to being close to people in the books and that’s why I wanted them to include the hug between Harry and Ron after the Horcrux is destroyed and not the one added at the beginning of the film. But I’ve gotten used to the fact that Film/Harry isn’t really like Book/Harry and I don’t really expect it anymore.

While Ron was gone, Harry was nicer to Hermione than in the book and I really don’t think it was a good idea because, to me, it sort of diminishes the impact that Ron’s leaving had on Harry. It seems to me they made Ron’s return all about Hermione and not really Harry but that’s their interpretation of the book. I like the idea of using the radio as a representation of Ron but I don’t think they spent enough time developing that and it wasn’t really clear to me on the first viewing. I think the closeness between Harry and Hermione is at the detriment of the trio’s dynamic and Harry and Ginny’s relationship and not really at the detriment of Hermione and Ron’s relationship.

I know! What exactly does "the other night" mean? 'Cos that should have been WEEKS prior to that conversation. Although really the only time that passes between walking back to the tent and the fight is the radio voice-over so...who knows!

I still don’t really know what that line refers to especially since Hermione seems to understand what he’s talking about. It can’t be about the night they walked back to the tent otherwise Hermione wouldn’t know what he’s referring to. But maybe she doesn’t know. Still, that line is bad and my audience laughed when Ron said it. But I see it could have been worse so I should consider myself happy.

Erin6

January 6th, 2011, 6:46 pm

The way Kloves writes Hermione, she will get all of Ginny's lines, most of Ron's and half of Harry's.:grumble: She will ignore, Ron and Ginny and run over and give Harry a hug and stroke his hair.:td:
All the focus in the Epilogue will be on her and not on Harry/Ginny and their children like in the book.:grumble:
Also she will look the best. (She did in the last lot of makeup they did) She will not be allowed to look as if she has aged.:lol:

LOL probably. I bet Ron and Hermione won't even speak to each other in the epilogue. It will be all about Harry and Hermione.

snugglepot

January 6th, 2011, 8:29 pm

LOL probably. I bet Ron and Hermione won't even speak to each other in the epilogue. It will be all about Harry and Hermione.

Yes! Ron and Harry won't speak together or definately not Harry and Ginny!
Hermione will notice Malfoy's family and comment. Hermione will refer to Ron as "Ronald":td:
Oh this is so depressing! I'm finding ways that The Epilogue scene will be ruined for me.
I so want this scene to be right! In the book Hermione only had about three lines and none of them was to Harry. They did not interact! I liked that. Kloves, as we know, is the number one Hermione fan so will he allow the Epilogue to stay as it was in the book, or will he expand Hermione's role as he always has (since PoA)?
"Yes" is the answer I am dreading!:grumble:

DA93

January 6th, 2011, 8:54 pm

LOL probably. I bet Ron and Hermione won't even speak to each other in the epilogue. It will be all about Harry and Hermione.

I found this really amusing :lol:

NightWhisper7

January 7th, 2011, 2:48 am

I really liked that scene. I thought it was cute. I did have a moment of "oh gosh this dance is so sensual" and I wasn't sure where it would lead. It almost made me ship Harry/Hermione in the movie.

But I really think that Harry was just trying to cheer up Hermione by doing something fun, taking her worries away for the moment. Ultimately, I saw it as a connection between two friends. The movie did a great job of portraying how close the three of them are, and how they support each other even during the darkest times.

Snuffy

January 7th, 2011, 4:09 am

Sigh. lol I don't what else I can say that I haven't already said. I obviously hated the dance. I didn't like Harry trying to seduce Hermione. I think it does a real disservice to his character. Harry would never go after the girl that his best friend loves. It really made me look at him differently. The dance was a huge mistake IMO. It also makes me doubt even more that Harry even likes Ginny. I also hate that Ron and Hermione don't get scenes anywhere near that intimate. They never get to be alone, and if they actually film scenes with them alone they are cut. It's just super frustrating. That's not to say that they didn't have some nice moments in this movie, but Harry was always there. Even a nice little intimate moment between them after the 7 potters had to turn into a Harry moment.

You couldn't see this as Harry just trying to make a friend laugh in a dark time? honestly, seducing? If it looked like Harry Potter was seducing Hermoine in the dance scene then you obviously have no idea what the director was trying to accomplish nor have any idea what "seducing" a women is in real life.

alsp

January 7th, 2011, 4:28 am

Moriath

January 7th, 2011, 6:43 am

2a. The goal of CoS Forums is to make sure everyone has a good time and can make friends. Obviously not everyone will agree with one another and we ask that you respect the opinions of others. Making sarcastic, or rude remarks directed at another member, or attacking others for holding views different to your own will not be tolerated. If you see this taking place, please report it to an Unspeakable or Admin immediately. Do not respond to the aggressor.

If you cannot accept that other posters have different opinions and respect them, you will be warned and/or removed from Muggle Studies until you do.

PotterGurl08

January 7th, 2011, 10:34 pm

It’s obvious that Hermione is Kloves’ favourite character and as such he puts her forward while Ron tends to be used as comic relief. That’s a real shame because the filmmakers make Hermione seem more important and useful to Harry than Ron. I’m probably not explaining myself clearly but while I agree that the marketing team is trying to sell a love triangle I don’t really think it exists in the films. The WB and the filmmakers might prefer Harry and Hermione but, to me, that’s not what’s happening in the films. They’ve made Hermione Harry’s best friend and that’s really, really disappointing but, to me, they’ve also made it clear she loves Ron. I don’t know if that makes sense?

Hmm. That's interesting.
I'm wondering if part of the problem is that people don't think of Hermione as Harry's best friend in the books for some reason?
She is Harry's best friend. And so is Ron. He has two best friends, and I never get the feeling that he prefers one over the other in the books or movies.
I think he likes them both, loves them both as friends, but appreciates them for different reasons. I wouldn't go as far as to say Hermione is more important than Ron to Harry, but I think she is more useful to him, in terms of helping him figure things out. Maybe in the films, this comes across as "more important."
I feel like he appreciates Ron, however, for his company. I think the books make it clear that Harry is overall, more happy when Ron is around. When it's just him and Hermione, the books make a point to show there is less laughter and fun (as do the films, imo. The one scene where they try to change this up--the dance scene, ultimately just reinforces this because the 'fun' doesn't last). Maybe in the films, this comes across as Ron is just "comic relief."

I agree though, that the movies make it clear that Hermione loves Ron.
She loves Harry, but she's in love with Ron, and that's easy to see in the films.

While I don't think Hermione is more important to Harry than Ron, I do think the films show her as overall, the most important female character to Harry. And I'd say this is true in the majority of the books too...until maybe in the end of HBP when he and Ginny become a couple.

Maybe that's the problem. The movies show Harry's friendship with Hermione as more important than his romance with Ginny. So people think there's some H/Hr agenda. However, I'm not sure I can really blame the films for this, because the trio and their adventures is more important than the romance plots.
Yet, with the romance plots, I think Hermione & Ron's romance clearly and overtly overshadows anyone else's romances, including Harry's. So I think of all the 'shippers' in the Potter Universe, the Hr/R shippers should be the happiest...Yet the opposite seems to be true in this thread...:lol:

cgold

January 7th, 2011, 11:15 pm

Erin6

January 8th, 2011, 12:06 am

In the books Ron is obviously Harry's better friend. In the movies they give Hermione a lot of Ron's role and lines. That stopped in DH1 but it happened for most of the other 6 films. Someone said it's because she's the one girl with 2 boys so it was necessary to elevate her role. I don't disagree. I just wish people would stop reading into every little thing.

I'm a happy R/Hr camper right now. I loved them in the movie and I thought the movie really concentrated on them a lot. The dance only annoyed me to hear about. It did not annoy me while watching the film. It's just another thing shippers blow out of proportion in my opinion. It seemed just sweet and friendly and again R/Hr simply because Hermione still couldn't be happy in the end although she gave it a good shot.
I dunno. I loved the movie. I can't wait for DH2. I hope they make the kiss a really exciting scene. It's one of the most anticipated moments in Harry Potter movie history.

Exactly. Hermione is Harry's great friend, but when it comes down to it, Ron is Harry's best friend. Harry finds hanging out with just Hermione kind of boring. The movies however, have destroyed the Ron/Harry relationship for the sake of Hermione/Harry. Hermione gets all of Ron's good roles and lines. Ron, Ron/Harry, and Ron/Hermione have suffered quite a bit to build up Hermione as this perfect character and Harry/Hermione as the greatest relationship ever.

PotterGurl08

January 8th, 2011, 1:00 am

In the books Ron is obviously Harry's better friend. In the movies they give Hermione a lot of Ron's role and lines. That stopped in DH1 but it happened for most of the other 6 films. Someone said it's because she's the one girl with 2 boys so it was necessary to elevate her role. I don't disagree. I just wish people would stop reading into every little thing.
Well, if that's how some see it...

I disagree though. Harry made friends with Ron first, but I don't see him as Harry's 'better' friend. Throughout the series, both Ron and Hermione are always described as his best friends. And Harry refers to Hermione as one of his best friends (because the other is Ron). The only time he doesn't call her a 'best friend' is when someone thinks they're romantically involved--then she becomes "just a friend." He loves Hermione like a sister (in the books), and I think he probably loves Ron like a brother. So they're even in my view.

His 'secondary' friends I'd say are people like Neville, Luna, Fred, George, etc. But Ron & Hermione are at the top as the besties, imo.

But like you, I completely understand if the films saw a need to 'elevate' her character so that the one female lead could keep up in the two male leads. I'm not sure if I take this as making her the 'better' friend though.

And I also wish people wouldn't read too much into things. :lol:

It's just another thing shippers blow out of proportion in my opinion. It seemed just sweet and friendly and again R/Hr simply because Hermione still couldn't be happy in the end although she gave it a good shot.
I dunno. I loved the movie. I can't wait for DH2. I hope they make the kiss a really exciting scene. It's one of the most anticipated moments in Harry Potter movie history.
Completely agree with all of this. :)

ajna

January 8th, 2011, 4:35 am

Exactly. Hermione is Harry's great friend, but when it comes down to it, Ron is Harry's best friend. Harry finds hanging out with just Hermione kind of boring. The movies however, have destroyed the Ron/Harry relationship for the sake of Hermione/Harry. Hermione gets all of Ron's good roles and lines. Ron, Ron/Harry, and Ron/Hermione have suffered quite a bit to build up Hermione as this perfect character and Harry/Hermione as the greatest relationship ever.

Perhaps it's not about Harry/Hermione, but about Hermione.

Erin6

January 8th, 2011, 5:19 am

Perhaps it's not about Harry/Hermione, but about Hermione.

I think it's both.

Erisa

January 8th, 2011, 11:23 am

Hmm. That's interesting.
I'm wondering if part of the problem is that people don't think of Hermione as Harry's best friend in the books for some reason?
She is Harry's best friend. And so is Ron. He has two best friends, and I never get the feeling that he prefers one over the other in the books or movies.

I think Hermione and Ron are both Harry’s best friends in the books, there’s no doubt in my mind about that. What I meant is that, in my opinion, Hermione is made to be Harry’s best friend in the films while Ron seems to just be his guy friend. I think the trio dynamic was better in DH1 and I liked the scene they added at the beginning of the film with Harry and Ron at the Burrow but, to me, on the whole they haven’t really succeeded in showing how Ron and Harry are best friends. Hermione and Ron are both important to Harry in the books and they are both useful but in the films they’ve made Hermione seem more important to Harry than Ron.

In my opinion, the lack of closeness between Harry and Ron in the films is best exemplified with the way they made Ron’s return mainly about his relationship with Hermione and not really about his friendship with Harry and it’s great for Hermione and Ron but not for Harry and Ron. I didn’t really get the impression that Ron’s absence had an effect on Harry in DH1.

I think they’ve made a great job showing that Ron and Hermione like each other and I wouldn’t want them to spend more time on that since I also don’t think romance should be the main aspect of the films. However, I think the Harry and Ginny’s relationship is badly executed in the films since Ginny’s character is poorly written and therefore it’s hard to imagine that Harry is in love with a character he never mentions while they’re on the run.

You're making perfect sense. :) I've said much the same as you in this thread.

For me, the trio dynamic improved in DH1. Hopefully this trend will continue in DH2.

Thank you. I tend to write too much and I fear I’ll end up not making much sense.:lol: I also hope the trio dynamic will keep improving in DH2 as their friendship is what made me really appreciate these books.

SummerBelle

January 8th, 2011, 2:38 pm

Yes! Ron and Harry won't speak together or definately not Harry and Ginny!
Hermione will notice Malfoy's family and comment. Hermione will refer to Ron as "Ronald":td:
Oh this is so depressing! I'm finding ways that The Epilogue scene will be ruined for me.
I so want this scene to be right! In the book Hermione only had about three lines and none of them was to Harry. They did not interact! I liked that. Kloves, as we know, is the number one Hermione fan so will he allow the Epilogue to stay as it was in the book, or will he expand Hermione's role as he always has (since PoA)?
"Yes" is the answer I am dreading!:grumble:

All the things you said is what I've been dreading for! Please...they shouldn't let this happen. I really hope they give this moment to Harry, Ginny, and their kids. It's about them and not Hermione. But just like what you've said, I am also sure that Kloves will find a way somehow to let Hermione shine as much as possible, seeing as this will be the very last scene in the film.

decarus

January 8th, 2011, 2:39 pm

I actually thought they spent very little time in Part 1 on the romances.

Erin6

January 8th, 2011, 6:33 pm

All the things you said is what I've been dreading for! Please...they shouldn't let this happen. I really hope they give this moment to Harry, Ginny, and their kids. It's about them and not Hermione. But just like what you've said, I am also sure that Kloves will find a way somehow to let Hermione shine as much as possible, seeing as this will be the very last scene in the film.

It should be about both couples and their kids. Not just Harry and Ginny's family. I know that's how it was in the book, but if this is the last time we see the trio, then some focus should be on Ron and Hermione too.

PotterGurl08

January 8th, 2011, 6:41 pm

I think Hermione and Ron are both Harry’s best friends in the books, there’s no doubt in my mind about that. What I meant is that, in my opinion, Hermione is made to be Harry’s best friend in the films while Ron seems to just be his guy friend. I think the trio dynamic was better in DH1 and I liked the scene they added at the beginning of the film with Harry and Ron at the Burrow but, to me, on the whole they haven’t really succeeded in showing how Ron and Harry are best friends. Hermione and Ron are both important to Harry in the books and they are both useful but in the films they’ve made Hermione seem more important to Harry than Ron.

In my opinion, the lack of closeness between Harry and Ron in the films is best exemplified with the way they made Ron’s return mainly about his relationship with Hermione and not really about his friendship with Harry and it’s great for Hermione and Ron but not for Harry and Ron. I didn’t really get the impression that Ron’s absence had an effect on Harry in DH1.
Fair enough.
I never really thought about the film portraying Ron's return as being only about Hermione.
To me, I think the films make it clear that Harry and Ron are best friends too. Maybe the films take for granted the audience will pick up on this--with Ron always being around Harry, and Harry spending so much time at the Burrow with the Weasleys like part of the family.

I think they’ve made a great job showing that Ron and Hermione like each other and I wouldn’t want them to spend more time on that since I also don’t think romance should be the main aspect of the films. However, I think the Harry and Ginny’s relationship is badly executed in the films since Ginny’s character is poorly written and therefore it’s hard to imagine that Harry is in love with a character he never mentions while they’re on the run.

Yes, Harry and Ginny need work. Unfortunately, I think it's too late for that now. We probably won't see Ginny again until the end of DH 2, during the battle (mainly for the Mrs. Weasley bit...Which they SOOO better get right. I'm looking forward to that far more than any romance developments, lol.
Then of course she'll be in the epilogue.

I almost feel that this is a mistake on the film's part. Technically, with it being Harry's story, it seems like by HBP, more time should be spent on Harry/Ginny than Ron/Hermione (though Ron/Hermione shippers would probably think this blasphemy). A part of me feels like there should have been more build-up between Harry & Ginny, while Ron & Hermione should just be subtly noted here and there. But the films have made R/Hr more of a priority that H/G--further demonstrated by R/Hr getting their own alone-time kiss in DH (which actually makes me a bit sad because I love the way it happens in the book). Oh well...lol.

alsp

January 8th, 2011, 9:00 pm

For me it's quite simple and has very little to do with shipping. Imo, the films over play or over sell the H/Hr friendship. They do this by downplaying any personality conflicts Harry and Hermione actually have in the books and make it seem like the two are very much on the same wave length most of the time. They have also made Harry and Hermione much more touchy-feely than in the books, making them seem much more comfortable with physical intimacy than their canon counterparts. So in short, film H/Hr are actually portrayed as closer personality wise and in their physical comfort level with one another than in canon.

The H/R friendship on the other hand is down played. A good bit of Harry and Ron's friendship in the films (PoA through HBP) is either centered around their personal conflicts or Ron playing off Harry as comic relief. Sure, it's easy to see they are very good friends, but it's much harder to imagine that film Ron would lay his life down for Harry. While one doesn't have any trouble at all imagining film Hermione doing so.

So, imo, there is a fundamental imbalance in the way the two friendships have been presented which can tend to make Hermione look like the better friend. And while I don't have much problem with the way the R/Hr romance has been presented, the fact that film Harry and Hermione are presented as so compatible can take some of the power away from the R/Hr moments.

ajna

January 8th, 2011, 9:11 pm

I think they’ve made a great job showing that Ron and Hermione like each other and I wouldn’t want them to spend more time on that since I also don’t think romance should be the main aspect of the films. However, I think the Harry and Ginny’s relationship is badly executed in the films since Ginny’s character is poorly written and therefore it’s hard to imagine that Harry is in love with a character he never mentions while they’re on the run.

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Gosh, I don't know, but rescuing Harry seems to be pretty clear way of showing Ron's love and loyalty to Harry. The truth is, that as soon as Ron and Hermione become an established couple the relationship of the 3 will change. Whether it is good, bad or just different, it changes the dynamic. True, in dialogue, Ron professes that the deluminator guided him via Hermione's voice, but in reality, Ron was probably missing BOTH of them and regretting abandoning both of them also.

But the Harry/Ginny relationship was always weak, both in books and movies. Her character just wasn't 3 dimensional enough. It could have been, the opportunities were there, but never elaborated on. Perhaps Rowling felt it would be diluting and also lengthening to the books.

The books are always shown from Harry's point of view. Therefore we never really know what Ginny does unless we see her directly or hear about her second hand. It would be nice to know more about her activities in DA and perhaps her relationship with Hermione who seems to know and understand best of the Trio.

cgold

January 9th, 2011, 12:21 pm

Well, if that's how some see it...

I disagree though. Harry made friends with Ron first, but I don't see him as Harry's 'better' friend. Throughout the series, both Ron and Hermione are always described as his best friends. And Harry refers to Hermione as one of his best friends (because the other is Ron). The only time he doesn't call her a 'best friend' is when someone thinks they're romantically involved--then she becomes "just a friend." He loves Hermione like a sister (in the books), and I think he probably loves Ron like a brother. So they're even in my view.

His 'secondary' friends I'd say are people like Neville, Luna, Fred, George, etc. But Ron & Hermione are at the top as the besties, imo.I totally get what you mean by "secondary" friends being Luna, Neville, etc. Hermione is 100% Harry's best friend and a "primary" friend. I don't even know why you think I would be saying any differently. Anyone suggesting otherwise is just being silly, in my opinion. What I meant was Harry liked, was closer to and listened to Ron more than Hermione even though they were both his best friends. I haven't read the books in about 3 years but off the top of my head I mean stuff like this:

- Harry choosing his classes based on Ron's schedule so that they'd be together
- Hermione has never invited Harry to spend any holiday with her although her parents seem cool. I would also not imagine Harry wanting to go. Although it is preferable to the Dursleys so maybe he would have. He's never asked and hoped for an invite like he does with Ron though.
- Harry never gets very upset with Hermione. Whenever they quarrel it's not a big deal. Harry just ignores it and move on. People think they don't argue but they do. It's just that Harry doesn't seem to care. Whenever Ron and Harry have an argument it becomes a humongous deal. It becomes a life altering situation as with the fight in GoF. Same deal with Ron and Hermione. Everything gets blown out of proportion.
- Harry looking to Ron in terms of stuff like the DA. When Hermione suggested it he was about to laugh it off, I think he said something like they laugh off Hermione and the House elves stuff, but when Ron said it was actually a great idea he gave it serious thought.
- Harry and Ron laughing about Hermione being stuck in the Slug Club while they went and enjoyed themselves.

I actually think what also gave the air of the "better friend" in the books was that since the beginning Ron was Harry's best friend and always showed that he was willing to sacrifice himself for Harry specifically and it was never about the world. It was about Harry. Ron is not special in anyway, and yet he always does extraordinary things in the name of Harry. Not usually because of any greater good. Hermione has always shown that she is definitely self sacrificial but on a whole world basis. A kind of greater good basis where Harry is just a part of. Stuff like Ron sacrificing himself on the chess piece, coming with his brothers in the flying car to break Harry out of the Dursleys, Ron telling Sirius in PoA that Sirius would have to kill him before getting to Harry, etc. Just those things that Ron always does that's Harry specific and not necessarily the "greater good" specific that you would do for anyone like Hermione does. Most of the things Hermione does she would do for anyone and that makes her a wonderful person. Most of the things Ron does he does for Harry.

In the end, in order to make the relationship in the movies work the way he wants it to work, Steve Kloves has either taken out all of this and/or given those roles to Hermione.

That's my opinion. Hermione is definitely Harry's best friend. He definitely loves her, it's just that there has always been the overall impression that Harry simply likes Ron better and on another level. Harry and Ron are in love with each other. It's an epic bromance. The guy had to get Ron's permission to date Ginny and seemed stressed by the fact that he may not get the chance to date Ginny if Ron says no. LOL.

finick08

January 9th, 2011, 8:39 pm

Its R/H in the books but in the movies its not the same.

ajna

January 9th, 2011, 9:22 pm

True, the subtleties of the friendship don't really show up in the movies. Perhaps they are just presumed. Perhaps instead of 'better' friend, a more accurate word would be 'closer' friend. You almost have to wonder if Ron and Harry would have become close friends with Hermione if they didn't already exist as best friends? I think Hermione is definitely one of Harry's 'best' friends. They are all incredibly close. But the bond between Harry and Ron is somewhat deeper. IMHO of course.

scooby

January 10th, 2011, 12:07 am

Great post, cgold. Some great points there. :) I would agree that Harry and Ron have an epic bromance. :D Bromance FTW! Haha

It's important to remember the importance of friendship and 'family' for Harry. Because in the end, without it, he is really just fighting for himself and an ambiguous witching/wizarding population. It's not like the Wizarding world has been so kind to Harry. Ron is the face of the world for Harry. He gives his life meaning. He gives him affection and familial ties. Aside from Hermione, Ron is pretty much Harry's only friend. He is Harry's heart. The Burrow scenes all illustrate how important this love is to Harry. And he wouldn't have it without Ron. Without Ron, Harry would still pretty much be a spiritual orphan. And Rowling says as much in the books during the time that Ron and Harry are not speaking to each other. Without Ron, and the love and friendship he brings Harry, who are we to say that Harry, who's life mirrors Tom Riddles in so many ways wouldn't have just continued on the same path Tom Riddle did? Without friendship, Harry's main motivation in defeating Voldemort could have ended up being overthrowing him to take his place as a more powerful Dark Lord. Ron humanizes Harry. He gives Harry what Harry has never had. In a way, he is Harry's guiding light, but it just isn't as crystallized in the way Hermione's role is. Hermione's role is quite clear. Ron's is less tangible but probably more important in many ways. And Dumbledore realizes this, and encourages and even nurtures their friendship.

:love: I just had to re-post this, because it is the most eloquent and moving description of Ron's role in the story and his relationship with Harry that I have ever read. Beautiful. I love that you call Ron Harry's "guiding light". Harry looks to Ron for support, for corroboration, for a similar perspective to his own, the way one might look to one's own heart/conscience for moral guidance. Indeed, Harry is someone who tends to follow his heart much more than his brain, which gives him much more in common with Ron than Hermione.

People often stress that Hermione is more "useful" to Harry, but that doesn't mean that she is more important to him. Love is not logical or rational. And in HP, love is the most important thing; it is Harry's greatest power. Ron, as the "heart" of the trio and Harry's link to family, could be said to represent love to an extent. Indeed, I always found it very telling that Ron is based on JKR's best schoolfriend, Sean Harris, who represented freedom and escape to her in the same way that Ron does to Harry. Even the blue Ford Anglia is the same. Although some might argue that Harry's hostage in GOF was Ron because Hermione was already Krum's, the fact is that Ron was his hostage, and this is very symbolic: the thing Harry would miss most in all the world. And this is proven to still be the case in DH, IMO. Harry misses Ron far more than he misses even Ginny. Ron's leaving in DH is about more than his own character growth/evolution; it also serves to show Ron's purpose - to show just how much he means to Harry and Hermione. Indeed, as Harry says in DH, "it was only now that Ron was here again that Harry fully realised how much his absence had cost them." (p. 308, UK edition)

Many people have several "best" friends, but, if it came to it, most would be able to pick a single best best friend, IMO. It always seemed to me that Ron was Harry's best best friend - his bff - while Hermione was his other best friend - one of his best friends. I think that if Harry had to choose which one to spend time with - assuming both were okay/still speaking to one another, which was not the case in HBP, where it was sort of Harry's duty to spend time with both - he would choose Ron every time. In my mind, there's no question that Harry enjoys Ron's company more, and has a greater affinity for and understanding of him. They have far more in common than Harry and Hermione: many shared interests and a shared sense of humour.

Most of Harry and Hermione's time alone together has a fraught and tense quality; they rarely seem to be relaxed in each other's company, or to truly enjoy spending time together, when Ron is not around. It's always business first. Of course, In DH this has a lot to do with the circumstances. Nevertheless, Ron is able to bring fun and laughter when he returns, despite the circumstances. I can see Harry and Ron having a very close friendship in a world without the fight against Voldemort, whereas with Harry and Hermione, their friendship began with and is largely based on shared adventures, IMO. That's not to say that H and Hr didn't develop a strong bond and great mutual affection over the years on the back of those adventures, but they lack the essential compatibility that Harry and Ron have. All of Harry's non-Voldemort interests tie him to Ron: quidditch, Ginny and the other Weasleys, aurordom, etc.

I remember that Harry tries to take Ron and leave Hermione with Neville and co. at the end of the OOTP book, which is interestingly reflected in the scene outside the Burrow in the DH1 movie. There is never any question of Harry going to stay at Hermione's parents' in the holidays, even in HBP, when Hermione did not go to stay at the Burrow, and Harry could have chosen to spend Christmas at hers. He never asks or even expresses any interest, as cgold said. In POA, during his and Ron's fallout with Hermione, Harry is never really very bothered about her. When Ron and Harry fall out, it is a Big Deal, and when they make up, Harry feels "lighter than air" (GOF), or in "buoyant spirits" (DH). Hermione just doesn't have that effect on Harry. Admittedly, Harry and Hermione grow much closer in HBP and DH, but they never reach the level of Ron and Harry, IMO. Harry invariably chooses Ron, sides with Ron, does what Ron does - that's just the way it is. Ron always comes first to Harry. Harry says it best:

"Harry liked Hermione very much, but she just wasn't the same as Ron. There was much less laughter, and a lot more hanging around in the library when Hermione was your best friend." (p. 278, GOF, UK edition)

The last bit seems to suggest that Harry would not usually consider Hermione his best friend, but Ron. Admittedly, this is a GOF-era quote, but I think that this is still essentially true in DH - even in the epilogue.

It’s obvious that Hermione is Kloves’ favourite character and as such he puts her forward while Ron tends to be used as comic relief. That’s a real shame because the filmmakers make Hermione seem more important and useful to Harry than Ron. I’m probably not explaining myself clearly but while I agree that the marketing team is trying to sell a love triangle I don’t really think it exists in the films. The WB and the filmmakers might prefer Harry and Hermione but, to me, that’s not what’s happening in the films. They’ve made Hermione Harry’s best friend and that’s really, really disappointing but, to me, they’ve also made it clear she loves Ron. I don’t know if that makes sense?
I agree. It makes perfect sense. :) Despite the bitter taste that reading the script left in my mouth, I didn't actually feel that Harry and Hermione were being pushed as a romantic couple while watching the film. And in the end, I suppose the films themselves - and the books, of course! - are what really matters.
I agree, Harry isn’t particularly used to being close to people in the books and that’s why I wanted them to include the hug between Harry and Ron after the Horcrux is destroyed and not the one added at the beginning of the film. But I’ve gotten used to the fact that Film/Harry isn’t really like Book/Harry and I don’t really expect it anymore.

YES! Harry is not the sort person who freely bestows physical affection on people; he is an emotionally reserved character - one might even say emotionally stunted. That hug between Harry and Ron - the first in the books - was well and truly earned, which is what made it so moving.

While Ron was gone, Harry was nicer to Hermione than in the book and I really don’t think it was a good idea because, to me, it sort of diminishes the impact that Ron’s leaving had on Harry. It seems to me they made Ron’s return all about Hermione and not really Harry but that’s their interpretation of the book. I like the idea of using the radio as a representation of Ron but I don’t think they spent enough time developing that and it wasn’t really clear to me on the first viewing. I think the closeness between Harry and Hermione is at the detriment of the trio’s dynamic and Harry and Ginny’s relationship and not really at the detriment of Hermione and Ron’s relationship.
Word on the bolded bits. :tu:

A couple of quotes from this section of the book:

"[Hermione sat] down on a large rock , her face on her knees, shaking with what he knew were sobs. [Harry] watched her, supposing that he ought to go and comfort her, but something kept him rooted to the spot. Everything inside him felt cold and tight: again he saw the contemptuous expression on Ron's face..." (p. 256, UK edition)

Comparing how Harry behaves towards Hermione in the above extract to his actions in the dance scene shows how very different Harry's character is in the films to his character in the books, as well as how different H and Hr's relationship is. Book-Harry does show concern for Hermione in his own way: taking over the casting of the protective enchantments - as he does in the film - and, touchingly, throwing some blankets over her recumbent form after Ron leaves. But the key fact is that Harry is almost immobilised by grief after Ron's departure in the book; he is not in a fit state to offer Hermione much comfort, because he is hurting so much himself.

The chapters following Ron's departure are marked by emotional paralysis and a breakdown in communication between Harry and Hermione.

"They were spending many evenings in near silence, and Hermione took to bringing out Phineas Nigellus's portrait and propping it up in a chair, as though he might fill part of the gaping hole left by Ron's departure." (p. 257)

Harry frequently gets angry at her during this time - even moreso than usual. He can also be quite hurtful. I always thought that the following bit was harsh:

"Her face glazed with tears, Hermione handed over her wand, and he left her sitting beside his bed, desiring nothing more than to get away from her." (p. 285)

On the other hand, Harry and Hermione seem to get on fairly well after Ron's departure in the DH1 film. The dance scene is the most obvious example, but also the scene where they discuss going to Godric's Hollow is much more... amiable and affectionate - with the hair ruffle - than its book counterpart. The closest thing there is to tension between them is in the scene where Harry finds out that his wand is broken, but even this is toned down from the book.

All this undermine's Ron's role as "the glue that holds the trio together", because Harry and Hermione seem to hold themselves together quite well without him. An unfortunate alteration and weakening of the trio dynamics, IMO.

HedwigOwl

January 10th, 2011, 1:54 am

...the thread seems to be seriously off-track from romantic moments.....

ajna

January 10th, 2011, 2:12 am

I suppose it's subtle stuff to carry off in what is for the most part a movie about action and magic.

PotterGurl08

January 10th, 2011, 2:58 am

I totally get what you mean by "secondary" friends being Luna, Neville, etc. Hermione is 100% Harry's best friend and a "primary" friend. I don't even know why you think I would be saying any differently. Anyone suggesting otherwise is just being silly, in my opinion. What I meant was Harry liked, was closer to and listened to Ron more than Hermione even though they were both his best friends. I haven't read the books in about 3 years but off the top of my head I mean stuff like this:

- Harry choosing his classes based on Ron's schedule so that they'd be together
- Hermione has never invited Harry to spend any holiday with her although her parents seem cool. I would also not imagine Harry wanting to go. Although it is preferable to the Dursleys so maybe he would have. He's never asked and hoped for an invite like he does with Ron though.
- Harry never gets very upset with Hermione. Whenever they quarrel it's not a big deal. Harry just ignores it and move on. People think they don't argue but they do. It's just that Harry doesn't seem to care. Whenever Ron and Harry have an argument it becomes a humongous deal. It becomes a life altering situation as with the fight in GoF. Same deal with Ron and Hermione. Everything gets blown out of proportion.
- Harry looking to Ron in terms of stuff like the DA. When Hermione suggested it he was about to laugh it off, I think he said something like they laugh off Hermione and the House elves stuff, but when Ron said it was actually a great idea he gave it serious thought.
- Harry and Ron laughing about Hermione being stuck in the Slug Club while they went and enjoyed themselves.

I actually think what also gave the air of the "better friend" in the books was that since the beginning Ron was Harry's best friend and always showed that he was willing to sacrifice himself for Harry specifically and it was never about the world. It was about Harry. Ron is not special in anyway, and yet he always does extraordinary things in the name of Harry. Not usually because of any greater good. Hermione has always shown that she is definitely self sacrificial but on a whole world basis. A kind of greater good basis where Harry is just a part of. Stuff like Ron sacrificing himself on the chess piece, coming with his brothers in the flying car to break Harry out of the Dursleys, Ron telling Sirius in PoA that Sirius would have to kill him before getting to Harry, etc. Just those things that Ron always does that's Harry specific and not necessarily the "greater good" specific that you would do for anyone like Hermione does. Most of the things Hermione does she would do for anyone and that makes her a wonderful person. Most of the things Ron does he does for Harry.

In the end, in order to make the relationship in the movies work the way he wants it to work, Steve Kloves has either taken out all of this and/or given those roles to Hermione.

That's my opinion. Hermione is definitely Harry's best friend. He definitely loves her, it's just that there has always been the overall impression that Harry simply likes Ron better and on another level. Harry and Ron are in love with each other. It's an epic bromance. The guy had to get Ron's permission to date Ginny and seemed stressed by the fact that he may not get the chance to date Ginny if Ron says no. LOL.

Yeah...Thanks for the list of examples you can think of...

Ron and Hermione are still equal to me in terms of being Harry's best friends. The many things you listed here have all to do with personality differences for me.
Ron and Harry's personalities are more similar. They have similar senses of humor, for instance. Which is why Harry has more fun around Ron. I've even said this much in one of my posts. (And surely holiday at the Burrow is more fun than holiday with muggle dentists, lol--could explain why Harry isn't invited to spend holidays with the Grangers. Besides, Hermione often ends up spending parts of her summer breaks and such with the Weasleys anyway.)

As far as their arguments being more of a big deal...I'd venture to say it was because they argued over things that were a much bigger deal than Harry and Hermione ever did. Not to say that Harry and Hermione don't ever clash. But Ron accused him of lying in GOF, and then walked out on him in DH. I'd say these are far more serious than anything Hermione has ever done--Which is why it makes more sense to me that Harry is able to move on more easily after disagreements with Hermione because he knows they are mainly small and superficial arguments that will pass over. Maybe from this perspective some would even call Hermione a 'better' friend in knowing better than to think Harry was lying in GOF, and not walking out on him in DH when he need support the most...(I'm not necessarily making this argument though, because I don't see Ron nor Hermione as 'better' than the other. ;) ).

Book Hermione never yells anything like, "If you want to kill Harry, kill us too." Yet, she never leaves Harry's side, she's always right there with Harry and Ron in times of trouble. So I never had any doubts whether she didn't feel as strongly for Harry as Ron did.

So while I wholeheartedly agree that Ron & Harry have a strong bromance (something obviously open capable of occurring between male best friends). But for me, at least, Harry & Hermione's friendship is just as strong.

Like I said and still believe, Harry loves and likes Ron and Hermione equally--just for different reasons. And still don't think one is a 'better' friend than the other--in the books of movies. JMO. :)

And maybe if Hermione had a younger sister that she was extremely protective of, and Harry found himself falling for her, he'd be worried about Hermione's reaction too.
My attempt to bring the topic of romance somewhere into this post. :lol:

All this undermine's Ron's role as "the glue that holds the trio together", because Harry and Hermione seem to hold themselves together quite well without him. An unfortunate alteration and weakening of the trio dynamics, IMO.
Ironically, I think this was the point of the dance scene, lol.
Without Ron, Harry and Hermione are so down in the dumps. Harry makes a failed attempt to lighten the mood. They go back to being down in the dumps. And it is all because Ron isn't there.

PrezLeefun

January 10th, 2011, 4:02 am

PotterGurl08, good effort trying to bring this back to topic lol.

also I agree with your last paragraph. Harry (uncharacteristically) tries to cheer Hermione up, it fails, because Ron is not there.

Snuffy

January 10th, 2011, 5:11 am

Ironically, I think this was the point of the dance scene, lol.
Without Ron, Harry and Hermione are so down in the dumps. Harry makes a failed attempt to lighten the mood. They go back to being down in the dumps. And it is all because Ron isn't there.

Yep, this is exactly right. Ron's role is reinforced even more because when he comes back the story actually moves forward. I think *** director did pretty good with the time he has with the trio's parts.

ajna

January 10th, 2011, 6:11 am

On Mugglecast it is pointed out that Ron and Harry probably need Hermione more than Hermione needs them, up to the point that she and Ron begin to accept their feelings for each other.

alsp

January 10th, 2011, 6:47 am

Like I said and still believe, Harry loves and likes Ron and Hermione equally--just for different reasons. And still don't think one is a 'better' friend than the other--in the books of movies. JMO. :)

While I think both your statements are true with regards to the books, I disagree with the latter statement with regards to the films.

I don't know if the term "better friend" is the best way to express it, but the films (notably PoA through HBP) have, imo, elevated the H/Hr friendship by eliminating their personality conflicts - making them significantly more compatible and physically comfortable touching one another than in the books.

At the same time the H/R friendship (PoA through HBP) has focused mainly on their conflicts and/or Ron playing off Harry for comic relief.

Like I stated in a previous post, I think many people would be hard pressed to imagine film Ron laying down his life for Harry but have no trouble imagining film Hermione doing so. It's a fundamental imbalance in the friendships that simply doesn't exist in the books.

And while the trio dynamics were greatly improved in DH1, I think the imbalance in the way the relationships have been presented in some of the previous films has led many to feel the H/Hr friendship has been given preferential treatment.

Ironically, I think this was the point of the dance scene, lol. Without Ron, Harry and Hermione are so down in the dumps. Harry makes a failed attempt to lighten the mood. They go back to being down in the dumps. And it is all because Ron isn't there.

I agree. Even if we assume the film makers were, in part, playing it as a 'what if' moment (which I believe they were); it is made even more clear than ever that H/Hr would never work as a romantic couple and that they need Ron to complete them as a functional team.

PotterGurl08

January 10th, 2011, 6:20 pm

I don't know if the term "better friend" is the best way to express it, but the films (notably PoA through HBP) have, imo, elevated the H/Hr friendship by eliminating their personality conflicts - making them significantly more compatible and physically comfortable touching one another than in the books.

I feel like Harry and Hermione being physically comfortable touching each other in the films is a way to make a stronger contrast between their relationship, and Ron & Hermione's relationship. Harry and Hermione (in the films) are very comfortable touching each other--it's never awkward or hesitant. Yet, when Ron & Hermione touch, it's almost always more hesistant and romantically charged.
DH for instance--Before the cheek brush from Ron, Hermoine has hugged Harry and kissed him on the cheek in previous scenes. So yes, she's had more physical contact with Harry than Ron by this point. Yet, when Ron brushes her cheek in the coffee shop, it is far more intimate (romantically) than any moments of touching her and Harry have had, imo.

I feel like this is the film's way of showing that Hermione cares for both Ron & Harry, just in different ways. A girl isn't going to think twice about touching someone that's like a brother, but she's going to be more hesitant with the guy she likes. This is what I see in the films, and even in the books. I do recall Hermione and Harry touching in the books--it's just that being from Harry's perspective, he never really cares or makes a big deal out of when Hermione is holding his hand or grabs his arm or hugs him or kisses his cheek. (It's only when someone he's romantically interested in--Cho or Ginny, that we see Harry having a stronger reaction to when he's touched).
In the films, we obviously can't see inside Harry's head. So I think the only way to show this is to show his comfort with Hermione's physical touch, and make a clear contrast to Ron & Hermione's more hesitant and romantically charged touches (and I think they attempt to show Harry and Ginny being more 'hesitant', but unfortunately it just comes off as awkward, lol).
So, I bascially see the films expanding this aspect of the book, trying to make it more obvious to the movie audience.

The only time, in the books, that Harry does seem to have a stronger reaction to Hermione's touch is the DH moment where he closes his eyes when she touches his hair. And I personally feel this was more about lonliness and simply longing for a physical comfort rather than romance. The DH film, again, I think just expanded this moment (dance scene and Hermione touching his hair a couple of times).

At the same time the H/R friendship (PoA through HBP) has focused mainly on their conflicts and/or Ron playing off Harry for comic relief.
Between POA and HBP, the only conflict I recall between Ron & Harry is the GOF one (which came off as less serious in the movie than the book to me--probably because of time constraint). I think Ron's conflicts with Harry (and the only ones I remember are GOF and DH), serve a bigger role in the plot, so they can't be glanced over. Harry's clashes with Hermione aren't integral--it's mainly him getting annoyed at her nagging about something.
I agree though, that Ron does play off as comic relief. But I feel this is the movie expanding on the "Harry has more fun and laughs with Ron" aspect.
I think it's just hard capturing these characters on screen exactly as they are in the books. I think a lot of the characters get simplified. Ron is the funny friend. Hermione is the smart friend.

And while the trio dynamics were greatly improved in DH1, I think the imbalance in the way the relationships have been presented in some of the previous films has led many to feel the H/Hr friendship has been given preferential treatment.
Bolded...definitely agree. I guess since DH is split into 2, they had more time to focus on the characters rather than rushing to get through major plot points. It was certainly a nice change of pace. :)

wicked87

January 11th, 2011, 4:53 am

That scene wasn't my favorite, but as a fan of R/Hr it didn't make me crazy. What I really wish is that they would've kept the line "She's like my sister. I reckon she feels the same. I thought you knew". That puts an end to any idea with Harry and Hermione, and its important for Ron to hear.

Harsh_Potter

January 11th, 2011, 7:20 pm

I almost feel that this is a mistake on the film's part. Technically, with it being Harry's story, it seems like by HBP, more time should be spent on Harry/Ginny than Ron/Hermione (though Ron/Hermione shippers would probably think this blasphemy). A part of me feels like there should have been more build-up between Harry & Ginny, while Ron & Hermione should just be subtly noted here and there. But the films have made R/Hr more of a priority that H/G--further demonstrated by R/Hr getting their own alone-time kiss in DH (which actually makes me a bit sad because I love the way it happens in the book). Oh well...lol.

But I always felt that JKR did R/Hr much much much better and in much much much more detail than she did H/G. Probably because the whole R/Hr relationship was set up in so many little steps which were interspersed all throughout the series. Proper build up and all.

H/G was built up too but so much less so (about one and half books). IMO.

But I get what you're saying about the films. The thing is that from the beginning of the series (whether books or movies), THE female of the book/movie has been Hermione seeing as she's the only female in 80% of the scenes. And I think before GoF and esp HBP there was a "discussion" going on that would have made Dumbledore proud: R/Hr vs. H/Hr. With such a scenario, the film-makers played both the sides, showing both R/Hr and H/Hr.

Then in HBP, they suddenly got a Ginny but the change was too sudden for them to shift gears. And really, even in the books, Hermione IS more important as a character than Ginny, so I can see where all the H/G interactions went off in the films. The H/G kiss was a complete let-down. In DH it was only marginally better.

And now its too late to do H/G or Ginny justice in the movies. I am just happy with the R/Hr relationship in DH1. I hope to God that THE kiss at the end of DH2 is exactly as it was written in the book and not the heavily pruned and passionless version.

Sometimes I think Dan and Emma did their weird and creepy Horcrux kiss way better than Dan and Bonnie. Just hope Emma has as good a chemistry with dear ol' Rupert as well!!!

PotterGurl08

January 11th, 2011, 9:07 pm

But I always felt that JKR did R/Hr much much much better and in much much much more detail than she did H/G. Probably because the whole R/Hr relationship was set up in so many little steps which were interspersed all throughout the series. Proper build up and all.

H/G was built up too but so much less so (about one and half books). IMO.

But I get what you're saying about the films. The thing is that from the beginning of the series (whether books or movies), THE female of the book/movie has been Hermione seeing as she's the only female in 80% of the scenes. And I think before GoF and esp HBP there was a "discussion" going on that would have made Dumbledore proud: R/Hr vs. H/Hr. With such a scenario, the film-makers played both the sides, showing both R/Hr and H/Hr.

Then in HBP, they suddenly got a Ginny but the change was too sudden for them to shift gears. And really, even in the books, Hermione IS more important as a character than Ginny, so I can see where all the H/G interactions went off in the films. The H/G kiss was a complete let-down. In DH it was only marginally better.

And now its too late to do H/G or Ginny justice in the movies. I am just happy with the R/Hr relationship in DH1. I hope to God that THE kiss at the end of DH2 is exactly as it was written in the book and not the heavily pruned and passionless version.

Sometimes I think Dan and Emma did their weird and creepy Horcrux kiss way better than Dan and Bonnie. Just hope Emma has as good a chemistry with dear ol' Rupert as well!!!

I see your point. The books do spend less time building up H/G. I guess that could explain the movie's portrayal of it.

But on the other hand, I feel like the movies had even more build-up to R/Hr in a way than the books did. In the books, I didn't catch any R/Hr hints until GOF. The movies have hinted since COS though.
So I feel like they could have thrown in a few more H/G hints along the way if they wanted to, lol.

But, I guess it all came down to the fact that romance really isn't central to the story. So they put more effort into just one of the couples. The choice probably came down to: Romance between the lead character and a very minor character OR Romance between the two secondary lead characters.

So I guess the two secondary lead characters won, since they have more screen time together than Harry & Ginny ever would.

Ohh, that would be terrible if creepy Horcrux Harry/Hermione kiss is better than Ron/Hermione! :lol:
We know the circumstances of the kiss will be different (since they apparently will be alone). But I agree, I hope the passion is there like in the books, the way Ron is so enthusiastic he lifts Hermione off her feet (that was such an "aww" moment).

MsBinns

January 11th, 2011, 9:11 pm

We know the circumstances of the kiss will be different (since they apparently will be alone). But I agree, I hope the passion is there like in the books, the way Ron is so enthusiastic he lifts Hermione off her feet (that was such an "aww" moment).

I just wanted to put a friendly reminder in here that when discussing the upcoming kiss and what people have read/heard about the scene itself to use spoiler tags. I know I have been guilty of this myself, but as the movie gets closer and more people start dropping in let's just try to remember there are many who want to remain as unspoiled as possible! Let's not make it any harder for them!

Not to sound like a total fangirl, but I will say after seeing Rupert's intimate scenes in Cherrybomb and knowing Emma has been quoted by several people as "attacking" both Rupert and Dan I don't think the kiss will be lacking in passion at all!

GingerCat1

January 12th, 2011, 4:05 am

I just wanted to put a friendly reminder in here that when discussing the upcoming kiss and what people have read/heard about the scene itself to use spoiler tags. I know I have been guilty of this myself, but as the movie gets closer and more people start dropping in let's just try to remember there are many who want to remain as unspoiled as possible! Let's not make it any harder for them!

Not to sound like a total fangirl, but I will say after seeing Rupert's intimate scenes in Cherrybomb and knowing Emma has been quoted by several people as "attacking" both Rupert and Dan I don't think the kiss will be lacking in passion at all!

Well Yates, Dan and i think the actor of Neville have all said great things about the kiss. I am hoping they are not just blowing smoke as i hope the kiss is every bit as good as they are suggesting.

Harsh_Potter

January 12th, 2011, 1:29 pm

I just wanted to put a friendly reminder in here that when discussing the upcoming kiss and what people have read/heard about the scene itself to use spoiler tags. I know I have been guilty of this myself, but as the movie gets closer and more people start dropping in let's just try to remember there are many who want to remain as unspoiled as possible! Let's not make it any harder for them!

Not to sound like a total fangirl, but I will say after seeing Rupert's intimate scenes in Cherrybomb and knowing Emma has been quoted by several people as "attacking" both Rupert and Dan I don't think the kiss will be lacking in passion at all!

Oh can you please post a link or two of some interview where this was said? :clap: If this is true, then Emma Watson has something in common with her character Hermione after all: she takes the lead with the boys :D:clap:

If by that statement, you meant to say that that creepy yet sensual Horcrux kiss was initiated by Emma while filming, then I can begin to squee with joy about THE kiss in DH2!!! :clap:

MsBinns

January 12th, 2011, 2:40 pm

Oh can you please post a link or two of some interview where this was said? :clap: If this is true, then Emma Watson has something in common with her character Hermione after all: she takes the lead with the boys :D:clap:

If by that statement, you meant to say that that creepy yet sensual Horcrux kiss was initiated by Emma while filming, then I can begin to squee with joy about THE kiss in DH2!!! :clap:

Here's the intervew (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_LunZ4dUCCs) with Emma talking about her nerves surrounding her first on-screen kiss (the kiss with Dan was filmed after the kiss with Rupert). The volume is awful, but this is the interview I was referencing. I had to search for it a bit. There's about a million interviews with poor Rupert and Emma about "the kiss" on YouTube if you search! I feel quite bad for them and am always amazed at how un-annoyed (not even a word, I know, but you know what I mean) and gracious they always are when asked. I suppose that's something you get used to when you've been giving interviews for 10 years, but I still think it's admirable.

GingerCat1

January 12th, 2011, 6:24 pm

Here's the intervew (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_LunZ4dUCCs) with Emma talking about her nerves surrounding her first on-screen kiss (the kiss with Dan was filmed after the kiss with Rupert). The volume is awful, but this is the interview I was referencing. I had to search for it a bit. There's about a million interviews with poor Rupert and Emma about "the kiss" on YouTube if you search! I feel quite bad for them and am always amazed at how un-annoyed (not even a word, I know, but you know what I mean) and gracious they always are when asked. I suppose that's something you get used to when you've been giving interviews for 10 years, but I still think it's admirable.

Not relevant but i am surprised Emma didn't kill someone in her last round of interviews during DHP1 promotion as it seemed like every interviewer asked her about her hair. After a couple of days i was half expecting Emma to snap :D

arthur126

January 12th, 2011, 11:25 pm

Erin6

January 13th, 2011, 2:38 am

always thought the dance scene was just there to please the h/hr shippers and make the r/hr shippers a little jealous, but i watched it again and saw it from a different point of view. It seem's like harry is indirectly insulting ron by saying "i'm dancing, laughing and having a good time with the women you love, whilst you've turned your back on me again." It would have been good idea if they showed a montage with ron getting harassed by the snatchers whilst they were dancing. Imagine ron's reaction if they danced like that in front of him.

Filmmakers should not be trying to make a part of their fanbase jealous. If that was their intention, then that's unprofessional and would stop me from ever seeing part two. That being said, I do not think they set out to do that, I think it was simply just a case of they like Harry/Hermione better, so the scene was in there.

TLFL22

January 13th, 2011, 2:40 am

always thought the dance scene was just there to please the h/hr shippers and make the r/hr shippers a little jealous, but i watched it again and saw it from a different point of view. It seem's like harry is indirectly insulting ron by saying "i'm dancing, laughing and having a good time with the women you love, whilst you've turned your back on me again." It would have been good idea if they showed a montage with ron getting harassed by the snatchers whilst they were dancing. Imagine ron's reaction if they danced like that in front of him.

I don't think that was Harry message at all. I think he was trying to cheer up a friend, and in all honesty he would have tried to cheer up Ginny is Harry angrily left. I see nothing wrong with the dance and I am HUGE Ron/Hermione shipper

HedwigOwl

January 16th, 2011, 6:18 am

I don't think that was Harry message at all. I think he was trying to cheer up a friend, and in all honesty he would have tried to cheer up Ginny is Harry angrily left. I see nothing wrong with the dance and I am HUGE Ron/Hermione shipper

I agree. I saw DH1 again today in a local 2nd run theatre, and paid specific attention to the dance scene, looking for any indications however small that it was romantic on any level. But it just isn't there.

alsp

January 16th, 2011, 1:58 pm

And around and around and around we all continue to go. :lol:

The only conclusion here is that reading of the scene is subjective. Some saw evidence of romance, some saw sexual tension and some simply saw friendship.

magic_is_might

January 16th, 2011, 2:23 pm

The only conclusion here is that reading of the scene is subjective. Some saw evidence of romance, some saw sexual tension and some simply saw friendship.

Pretty much sums up the last 40+ pages :lol:

SummerBelle

January 17th, 2011, 12:47 pm

Pretty much sums up the last 40+ pages :lol:

I agree. That is the conclusion to the whole dance scene!:D

Anyways, I saw this H/G pic on tumblr and I must say that this is a MUCH better angle for the H/G kiss. They could have used this one instead:

http://s3.amazonaws.com/data.tumblr.com/tumblr_lf27utIvtC1qbd7hlo1_1280.jpg?AWSAccessKeyId =0RYTHV9YYQ4W5Q3HQMG2&Expires=1295354814&Signature=4oVuvlljTAH%2F8ko14xUbRZ0HNtM%3D

alsp

January 17th, 2011, 6:14 pm

Harsh_Potter

January 18th, 2011, 3:30 am

That would have been a nice angle for the kiss. I've also seen shots from the other side that look nice as well.

It's very annoying they didn't choose a good angle for the kiss. They were obviously cutting the scene down to the bare minimum, which unfortunately favored the shot which would best show George sneaking into the kitchen.

The thing is, they could have used both shots. One to showcase the kiss followed by the shot showing George enter. It would only have added 30 seconds to the scene at the most.

They could also have left the few seconds of dialogue showing that Ginny was more than superficially involved in Harry's life, but cut that as well.

It's very disheartening how the film makers have handled the H/G relationship. At least the script for DH1 and HBP show that Kloves was making an effort to portray the relationship with a bit more depth. Unfortunately very little of it made it to the screen.

I don't know what is Kloves version of HBP but with regards to the H/G kiss in HBP especially, it was poorly done, whatever amount of depth he wanted to put in. Why couldn't they have made the movie kiss the same way as the kiss in the book? It majorly disappointed me. DH was marginally better because by then, I didn't expect much out of the kiss

@summerbelle that pic is cute! Especially love George's pose in there!

About the H-Hr dance scene. My take on the dance was simply of friendship. Me and my friends loved it esp because of that.

PrezLeefun

January 18th, 2011, 3:56 am

I agree. That is the conclusion to the whole dance scene!:D

Anyways, I saw this H/G pic on tumblr and I must say that this is a MUCH better angle for the H/G kiss. They could have used this one instead:

http://s3.amazonaws.com/data.tumblr.com/tumblr_lf27utIvtC1qbd7hlo1_1280.jpg?AWSAccessKeyId =0RYTHV9YYQ4W5Q3HQMG2&Expires=1295354814&Signature=4oVuvlljTAH%2F8ko14xUbRZ0HNtM%3D

I love that... its just hilarious... may have gotten better laughs too, in addition to showcasing Harry and Ginny.

MsBinns

January 19th, 2011, 2:11 am

Discussion of the word "romantic" and its implications in the DH2 spoiler thread got me thinking of this thread. In 40+ pages of discussing the merits, shortcomings, and various interpretations of "the scene", most other romantic scenes from the film have been largely ignored (or if discussed they've been mentioned only in a tally of 'moments' to stack up and compare). So, in an attempt to leave the controversy of the "scene" aside I propose a question for you all!

Working with the dictionary definition below what do you think the single most "romantic" moment in DH1 was?

Romantic ro·man·tic adj \rō-ˈman-tik, rə-\ displaying or expressing love or strong affection.

silver ink pot

January 19th, 2011, 2:22 am

PrezLeefun

January 19th, 2011, 2:23 am

GingerCat1

January 19th, 2011, 2:24 am

If I remember one, I'll let you know. :rotfl:

Maybe I'll just wait for the next movie and The Prince's Tale. :agree:

Snape's love of Lily was completely one sided so id hardly call that true romance.

decarus

January 19th, 2011, 3:36 am

Ron and Hermione at the piano. There really wasn't any great moments in the film, but that was the best.

free_elf

January 19th, 2011, 4:41 am

Pretty much sums up the last 40+ pages :lol:

Blimey! Is that where we're up to now?:wow:

Discussion of the word "romantic" and its implications in the DH2 spoiler thread got me thinking of this thread. In 40+ pages of discussing the merits, shortcomings, and various interpretations of "the scene", most other romantic scenes from the film have been largely ignored (or if discussed they've been mentioned only in a tally of 'moments' to stack up and compare). So, in an attempt to leave the controversy of the "scene" aside I propose a question for you all!

Working with the dictionary definition below what do you think the single most "romantic" moment in DH1 was?

Romantic ro·man·tic adj \rō-ˈman-tik, rə-\ displaying or expressing love or strong affection.

The piano scene. Ron's face = :love:
Which, I believe it's nice to point out, was a scene added to the movie and not in the book. Something to remember in light of all these discussions. ;)

magic_is_might

January 19th, 2011, 5:36 am

AnotherD

January 19th, 2011, 12:39 pm

Yeah. The piano scene was definitely romantic :clap: Although I'd go so far to say that any scene with Ron gazing adoringly at Hermione (at the wedding, when he returns...)

DarthSkywalker

January 19th, 2011, 3:04 pm

always thought the dance scene was just there to please the h/hr shippers and make the r/hr shippers a little jealous, but i watched it again and saw it from a different point of view. It seem's like harry is indirectly insulting ron by saying "i'm dancing, laughing and having a good time with the women you love, whilst you've turned your back on me again." It would have been good idea if they showed a montage with ron getting harassed by the snatchers whilst they were dancing. Imagine ron's reaction if they danced like that in front of him.

I don't see how that can be at all possible. Not only is Ron not there, he certainly didn't tell him about it.

ajna

January 19th, 2011, 4:07 pm

Well showing Ron with the snatchers juxtaposed against the dancing would make sense ONLY if that was the intent and how Harry really felt. If that was not the filmmakers intent, a scene such as that would completely muddy the waters.

alsp

January 19th, 2011, 6:21 pm

Working with the dictionary definition below what do you think the single most "romantic" moment in DH1 was?

The most romantic moments for me were the piano scene and the scene where Ron returns and talks about the ball of light. :)

darklordspal

January 25th, 2011, 2:57 am

Ugh.... I had been defending the way the Harry/Hermione relationship is portrayed in this movie, but I really don't know anymore.....

I now truly think that Kloves is in love with Hermione - or at least some Emma-influenced, whitewashed idea of "Hermione" that he has in his head.

I completely agree. I have often wondered if the there wasn't a kind of "crush" for Hermione by Kloves. He doesn't seem to be "anti-Ron" as very "pro-Hermione". And in the end he tended to avoid anything that would cast Hermione\Emma in a bad light and movieRon's character was left by the side of the road.

It is speculation, but I have seen it happen before where an actor was conflated with the character they are portraying and the character disappears into the actor. I've seen it happen in some of the plays I've acted in. It can especially happen with actors with a strong personality like Emma Watson's.

It's like a Harry/Hermione fanfic written in the style of Twilight.

:rotfl:

So Harry is so bowled over by the vision of loveliness that is Hermione that the very sight of his best friend annoys him...? O-kay, Kloves....

Don't even get me started on Hermione looking beautiful in the "amber dusk"....

I mean, is Kloves talking about the same girl?! Ginny - y'know, that little-mentioned character, who just happens to be Harry's girlfriend - is the one who's supposed to be the hottie. Hermione is not a very physically attractive character, and, what's more, she is unkempt and unwashed and has been on the run for weeks in these scenes, so these fanfiction-esque descriptions are completely inappropriate.....!

I am offended as a feminist, as well as a HP fan. It's like it's not enough that Hermione is a great brain; Kloves and the filmmakers seem to feel the need to reimagine her as some great beauty. :grumble: Why do female heroines always have to be beautiful? Kloves never once mentions the appearance of Ron or Harry, except in a purely descriptive way. Bah! :grumble:

I mean, sure, Emma's a pretty girl, but is it really necessary or professional for Kloves to point that out in every other scene...? What does that add to the script? I mean, if I were Emma, I'd have been a little embarrassed to read that script.....

Does anyone else feel this way?!

Oh yes. I definitely feel the same way.

I'm not saying Emma isn't an excellent actor in DH1, but the balance of the trio that I thought was a real strong point in the beginning of the series is thrown to the winds b\c of this...bias...by Kloves (and the producers). I wonder sometimes if JKR wasn't affected by this while she was writing HBP and DH.

Of course this would explain how the dance scene was portrayed in DH1. :sigh:

As for what was said about the strongest romantic scene, I think it is Ron's return. It may be "cheesy" in some ppl's eyes, but I've found that there are ladies who swoon over just that kind of thing. ;)

Harsh_Potter

January 25th, 2011, 5:23 am

Other than Ron's cheesy but hopelessly beautiful speech....

For me its the cafe, where Ron touches the tiny cut on Hermione's face.

Another thing I love, even though we are caught up in Dobby's antics, and subsequent death, from the second Bellatrix releases Hermione she DOES NOT LEAVE RON'S ARMS... from there on out, he is always right next to her. I tend to think that is romantic, their refusal to separate.

Oh yes. I loved that thing too. In the book, Dobby releases the chandelier, Bellatrix literally throws Hermione down and flounces off and the chandelier falls on Hermione (ouch!)

In the movie, Bellatrix throws Hermione and before she can even hit the floor, she falls into Ron's arms. That was a very movie-ish, very Hollywood-ian scene where the "heroine" falls into the "hero's" arms. I was simultaneously amused and thrilled by that little scene.

My fvaourite scene? Hmm..is a tie between the cheek-brush scene and the piano scene. In both, what I love the most, is the way Ron looks at Hermione: very innocent and very longing.

Samuelcd

January 25th, 2011, 4:59 pm

When the dance since came on, I thought it was a little weird at first. Definitely didn't remember it. Of course I knew nothing romantic was going to happen, but I'm sure people who hadn't read the books were thinking Harry and Hermione might be together. Can't say I'm a fan of the scene to be honest.

free_elf

January 25th, 2011, 10:15 pm

Who do you get along with better from the cast?
Hard question, my best friends are Evanna (Lynch), Katie (Leung) and Emma (Watson) and I get along very good with Rupert (Grint) and Matthew (Lewis). Rupert is a great friend, he makes me laugh in the difficult moments and cheers me up. I'm lucky he's my brother [laughs].

And Matthew, he's a great and excellent friend, really, I consider him as a brother, we get along just fine and he's really sweet and excellent. Evanna is really intelligent and daring. Katie is a very good friend, although we don't get along in the movies [laughs]; and Emma is really great.

From http://www.snitchseeker.com/harry-potter-news/bonnie-wright-talks-harry-and-ginny-romance-fight-with-bellatrix-in-deathly-hallows-2-a-79417/

BEWARE: possible SPOILERS in the rest of the interview.

Thought this was interesting. There's no mention of Dan here. Perhaps an indication of the lack of closeness between the actors. Something that might be translating to the screen? Hence, the awkwardness in Harry/Ginny scenes that has been mentioned by some in this thread.

emeraldflames

January 25th, 2011, 10:24 pm

free_elf

January 25th, 2011, 10:28 pm

I wouldn't take that as an indication, as the previous question was all about Dan and she may have felt she already talked about him. As she said, she gets asked a LOT if she has a crush on Dan (it's true, almost every interview with her does this, it must be annoying for her) and she may have felt no need to continue talking about him.

She's mentioned in the past that she likes Dan and finds him to be like a brother as well.

Ok, good to hear. I haven't really read many interviews with Bonnie Wright. It just seemed a bit odd that she had left Dan out. This is also a translation of the original interview, so it's possible things have been lost in translation, so to speak. It just seemed like such a glaring omission, y'know what I mean?:hmm:

I think the biggest problem with Harry/Ginny is the awkward scenes that get written for them. Have you noticed that almost all their scenes are completely made up for the movies? I can't even recall one scene from canon that these two got. Unless you go way back to Chamber. Their scenes are just bizarre.

Their scenes are truly bizarre. Shoe laces and feeding :td: awkward. But I understand why the writers would have to 'create' scenes. Given the manner in which they adapted the last two books, there hasn't been too much room for canon scenes. That being said, most of the Harry/Ginny scenes in the books are 'montages' in a manner of speaking. We don't so much as see them as are told that "Harry had had a lovely day with Ginny." I think in that sense, the book did limit how the Harry/Ginny relationship could be shown on film.

emeraldflames

January 25th, 2011, 10:39 pm

Like I said, the previous question was all about him and she may have felt she answered already. :D

But I have noticed some of the side characters (like Bonnie and even Evanna has always listed "Matt and Bonnie" as her closest friends) have both said they get along a lot better with each other than with the trio. Could just be because they hang out more.

But I understand why the writers would have to 'create' scenes. Given the manner in which they adapted the last two books, there hasn't been too much room for canon scenes. That being said, most of the Harry/Ginny scenes in the books are 'montages' in a manner of speaking. We don't so much as see them as are told that "Harry had had a lovely day with Ginny." I think in that sense, the book did limit how the Harry/Ginny relationship could be shown on film.

Imo, I would have taken the tattoo scene in the book, and the scene where she removes a maggot from his hair, over the feeding and the shoelace. I think one of the biggest problems is the movies sees them as an awkward/nervous couple, when in the books, they weren't really like that. Harry was a little nervous around her before they got together, but once they were a couple, all that nervousness was gone. They aren't an "awkward" couple, but Yates/Dan/Bonnie have all said they portrayed them as an awkward/nervous couple. Which... isn't how I saw them in canon.

magic_is_might

January 26th, 2011, 3:56 pm

They aren't an "awkward" couple, but Yates/Dan/Bonnie have all said they portrayed them as an awkward/nervous couple. Which... isn't how I saw them in canon.

Yeah, in the book, I didn't see them as awkward. Under developed? Yes - but not awkward. Shame that they are portrayed this way in the movies since a lot of people don't care much for the couple mainly because of how little chemistry they seem to have and how awkward they are together.

thescientists

January 26th, 2011, 5:04 pm

Yeah, in the book, I didn't see them as awkward. Under developed? Yes - but not awkward. Shame that they are portrayed this way in the movies since a lot of people don't care much for the couple mainly because of how little chemistry they seem to have and how awkward they are together.

I'm sure awkward would've worked if they had spent even the smallest amount of time developing the relationship. Lets face it. As much as we got in HBP, it really wasn't enough. It was his thoughts in the book that gave strength to the relationship, not his actions. And you don't get thoughts in movies.

decarus

February 10th, 2011, 3:29 am

I agree. I think the reason i don't mind the scene so much is because in the end Hermione walks away. There was a moment where something could have happened but it doesn't happen. Hermione walks away and later Harry apologizes.

HedwigOwl

February 10th, 2011, 3:42 am

Joga_Bonito

February 10th, 2011, 3:45 am

....err -- where does he apologize? I don't recall that happening.

I think he/she is saying that the scene where Harry goes

"hermione...."

and hermione kind of touches his hair and replies" dont ever let me cut your hair again..."

is a implication of Harry feeling guilty about his actions the night before.

HedwigOwl

February 10th, 2011, 3:48 am

I think he/she is saying that the scene where Harry goes

"hermione...."

and hermione kind of touches his hair and replies" dont ever let me cut your hair again..."

is a implication of Harry feeling guilty about his actions the night before.

Ahh -- the part where he doesn't say anything, but some posters assume they know what he would have said...:lol:

decarus

February 10th, 2011, 3:50 am

HedwigOwl

February 10th, 2011, 4:01 am

Yeah that is the scene i am talking about. Where Harry tries to apologize and Hermione stops him.

PS. It also seems quite certain that is what Hermione thought Harry was going to say otherwise why would she say don't ever let me cut your hair again. And why would Harry look relieved. We are not mind reading here we are watching the movie.

I never saw that as an apology attempt; for one thing, nothing happened except a goofy, sweet dance between friends, so no need for an apology. I think if anything can be read into that at all, Harry may have been about to tell Hermione he was sorry about the row he & Ron had before Ron left, and Hermione cut him off because she knows he didn't want Ron to leave either. But really, since there was no dialog whatsoever, we are all only guessing.

ajna

February 10th, 2011, 4:13 am

[staff edit: deleted post]

THANK YOU!:agree:;)

I agree. I think the reason i don't mind the scene so much is because in the end Hermione walks away. There was a moment where something could have happened but it doesn't happen. Hermione walks away and later Harry apologizes.

And maybe he WAS going to apologize. But we don't know. We don't even know if it was because he was going to apologize for acting inappropriately or because he thought it might be perceived as inappropriate or something else, like saying he was sorry Ron left, or he was sorry about the argument. Could be anything.

MsBinns

February 10th, 2011, 11:36 am

I never saw that as an apology attempt; for one thing, nothing happened except a goofy, sweet dance between friends, so no need for an apology. I think if anything can be read into that at all, Harry may have been about to tell Hermione he was sorry about the row he & Ron had before Ron left, and Hermione cut him off because she knows he didn't want Ron to leave either. But really, since there was no dialog whatsoever, we are all only guessing.

I was pretty confused by this exchange the first time I saw this movie. I read the opinions of people on here who thought it was Harry apologizing for the dance and kept that in mind the next time I saw the film. I STILL didn't get that feeling from the scene. It is incredibly vague and interpretations of it are purely speculative as there is little context to the scene. If anything the little clues provided would seem to indicate Harry is apologizing for the fight with Ron. Cutting Harry's hair is where that scene started after all.

magic_is_might

February 10th, 2011, 6:57 pm

I was pretty confused by this exchange the first time I saw this movie. I read the opinions of people on here who thought it was Harry apologizing for the dance and kept that in mind the next time I saw the film. I STILL didn't get that feeling from the scene. It is incredibly vague and interpretations of it are purely speculative as there is little context to the scene. If anything the little clues provided would seem to indicate Harry is apologizing for the fight with Ron. Cutting Harry's hair is where that scene started after all.

Yeah - I feel the same way about this scene :shrug: It's too vague (to me anyway) and I'm not sure how to even interpret it as.

HedwigOwl

February 11th, 2011, 12:32 am

I was pretty confused by this exchange the first time I saw this movie. I read the opinions of people on here who thought it was Harry apologizing for the dance and kept that in mind the next time I saw the film. I STILL didn't get that feeling from the scene. It is incredibly vague and interpretations of it are purely speculative as there is little context to the scene. If anything the little clues provided would seem to indicate Harry is apologizing for the fight with Ron. Cutting Harry's hair is where that scene started after all.

You're right! The argument did start after the haircut because that's when Hermione realized the basilisk venom being absorbed by the sword. I didn't notice that before -- the haircut closes the loop on the whole episode.

decarus

February 11th, 2011, 4:29 am

Why would Harry apologize to Hermione for because Harry fought with Ron? That doesn't make sense.

free_elf

February 11th, 2011, 5:01 am

Why would Harry apologize to Hermione for because Harry fought with Ron? That doesn't make sense.

It may not have necessarily been an apology as such. Perhaps some comforting words? Or even a thank you for staying with him etc?

Too hard to say given how little we have to go on.

But I am of the opinion, given Hermione's response about cutting his hair that it was not related to the dance per se but rather Ron Leaving. After all, Ron's leaving was the last big dramatic plot moment in the movie.

Also, courtesy of living death tumblr...

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lgdkztmFlk1qbryyno1_500.gif

Oh Dan!:agree:

magic_is_might

February 11th, 2011, 6:39 am

Also, courtesy of living death tumblr...

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lgdkztmFlk1qbryyno1_500.gif

Oh Dan!:agree:

Great gif! I've never seen this before - extremely glad to see these words from Dan himself.

HedwigOwl

February 12th, 2011, 2:36 am

But I am of the opinion, given Hermione's response about cutting his hair that it was not related to the dance per se but rather Ron Leaving. After all, Ron's leaving was the last big dramatic plot moment in the movie.

Also, courtesy of living death tumblr...

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lgdkztmFlk1qbryyno1_500.gif

Oh Dan!:agree:

Thanks for posting that!
And yes....is Dan just so cute or what? (and smart) :agree:

magic_is_might

February 12th, 2011, 4:44 am

Thanks for posting that!
And yes....is Dan just so cute or what? (and smart) :agree:

Yes.... :p

Harsh_Potter

February 15th, 2011, 7:01 pm

I didn't see it either. I love that scene because when reading the book I wanted so badly for Harry to show any sign that he cares about Hermione, too, about her being devastated by Ron's departure, but he was merely ignoring her. The height of his indifference was when he couldn't stand her company after she'd just saved his life, because she'd broken his wand (I guess wand trumps life). It felt so unnatural. So this scene in the film smoothed out the whole narrative there - it remedied the book's weakness as far as I'm concerned. I'm grateful for it.

Yes exactly. Sorry for bringing up such an old post but this is exactly how I felt. While reading the book, I felt like hitting Harry for his indifference. I think it was the first instance where I wanted to hit a book's main character (even while the book was from his POV). I was only a little placated (yet not completely so, damn you Harry!) after the 'I love her like a sister' dialogue.

Coming to the movie, the dance did assuage the resentment I felt against Harry. I think it was one of the rare times when I preferred the movie to the book. Infact, me and my friends so liked the dance and the Godric's Hollow graveyard scene of them that we put up wallpapers of Harry and Hermione. Sure, book!Harry and dancing is a bit too much, but there should have been one scene atleast in the book about Harry being the giver in this friendship...

Apart from that, Ron/Hermione basically rocked. The best thing was the way they adhered to the book's theme of 'little tender moments here and there which show how much they care about each other'.
The radio-scene where Hermione defends Ron against Harry: 'Don't! It comforts him. He's hoping it isn't bad news'. It was Hermione understanding Ron (it reminded me of how Hermione explains to Harry, Ron's reason's for jealousy in GoF, the book) and it felt a bit like a girlfriend defending her lover.

I also like this one scene which was so funny.
Hermione (with Beedle the Bard in hand): We need to talk

Ron (very enthusiastically): oh yes we do

Hermione (death-glare times 3 then starts talking to Harry, completely ignoring Ron)

And then the way Ron handled the vote for going to the Lovegoods. :elaugh:

And then Harry saying to Hermione as they are making their way to the Lovegoods: Are you going to stay mad at him forever?

Hermione: I'm always mad at him. for something or the other

I liked what it implied (in italics) and it felt like a very book!Harry and book!Hermione dialogue.

I would have included the cheek graze in the cafe, but that scene was just too disturbing to be romantic. I mean, it's nice that he's wiping blood off her face, but he's also telling her to wipe someone's memory after having considered killing said person, so I'm a little on the fence about the romance there.

No I LOVED this scene. The reason was because of what you said: He's considering killing someone. Then (oh I just loved this!) comes a really soft 'Ron' from Hermione. And there you have it. Ron comes back to reality and sense and immediately looks back at her. That soft little 'Ron' (and credit to Emma for making it so) is all that's required for him to restrain Ron and it only showed the hold Hermione has on Ron. She is his voice of reason, the one person who he would listen. And then the cheek graze was Ron's way of acknowledging her. "Alright I won't, you do it"

Lardbottom

February 19th, 2011, 3:58 am

About the cheek-brushing scene,

...Then (oh I just loved this!) comes a really soft 'Ron' from Hermione. And there you have it. Ron comes back to reality and sense and immediately looks back at her. That soft little 'Ron' (and credit to Emma for making it so) is all that's required for him to restrain Ron and it only showed the hold Hermione has on Ron...

This is a great observation, and a subtlety that I had missed. Just think how much worse this would have been if, instead of the soft "Ron", we had gotten a typical movie!Hermione, shrill, scandalized, "Ronald!"

-Lardbottom

Joga_Bonito

February 28th, 2011, 4:26 am

Nice to get some massive recognition from the oscars.

Legendary stuff......:rolleyes:;):lol:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qCFoyopIaFc&feature=player_embedded

MsBinns

February 28th, 2011, 4:42 am

I love that they manipulated it so Ron actually says "you're my tiny ball of light".

They're totally taking "Best Kiss" at the MTV awards.

deadly_artemis

February 28th, 2011, 5:06 am

They're totally taking "Best Kiss" at the MTV awards.

Well we'll have to wait til Part II to get their kiss, so that won't be until the 2012 MTV awards....and only if we can wrestle it away from Edward/Bella (as Twilight always sweeps those awards).

What I'm wondering is, do you think the Harry/Hermione horcrux kiss will be up for best kiss at this year's MTV awards??? That would be really weird if it was (since it's imaginary), but I wouldn't be surprised.

Oh, and I love the "ball of light" autotune! So cute/romantic! I also thought Justin Timberlake's Social Network one was funny too. Thought the Toy Story one wasn't that great though. And as for the Twilight one.....I won't even say anything.

GingerCat1

February 28th, 2011, 5:38 am

What I'm wondering is, do you think the Harry/Hermione horcrux kiss will be up for best kiss at this year's MTV awards??? That would be really weird if it was (since it's imaginary), but I wouldn't be surprised.

It wasn't really a good kiss as Emma was doing all the work and Dan really didn't do anything (Emma may as well have been kissing a tree) but i don't know how the MTV voting goes so it wouldn't surprise me if it did win.

ronjalina

February 28th, 2011, 6:07 pm

Well we'll have to wait til Part II to get their kiss, so that won't be until the 2012 MTV awards....and only if we can wrestle it away from Edward/Bella (as Twilight always sweeps those awards).That's true. However, Bella/Edward might be old news by 2012. If they already have won like 3 awards for best kiss the audience might get a bit tired. Be that as it may, I don't make my happiness dependent on whether the R/Hr kiss will win such an award, or not. While it might be a nice recognition, I am only anxious if the movie kiss will live up to my expectations.

What I'm wondering is, do you think the Harry/Hermione horcrux kiss will be up for best kiss at this year's MTV awards??? That would be really weird if it was (since it's imaginary), but I wouldn't be surprised.I wouldn't be surprised either. And why not? Are there rules that only truly romantic kisses can be nominated? It can also be evil kisses, right?

Oh, and I love the "ball of light" autotune! So cute/romantic! I also thought Justin Timberlake's Social Network one was funny too. Thought the Toy Story one wasn't that great though. And as for the Twilight one.....I won't even say anything.The video has been taken down. No luck for me. But I love the acknowledgment. A truly romantic scene. As many have said before, basically Ron's declaration of love. Even more so than in the book, IMO.

Harsh_Potter

March 1st, 2011, 6:12 am

I wouldn't be surprised either. And why not? Are there rules that only truly romantic kisses can be nominated? It can also be evil kisses, right?

Oh yes, I felt that the Harry/Hermione kiss was way better than the Harry/Ginny kiss. The Horcrux kiss was sensuous and every bit as physical as a Tom Riddle version of romance can be. And then some more. I felt Emma and Daniel did a great job with the kiss. The audience sitting with me in the theaters felt it too. There was some wolf-whistling going on. And it can be nominated and I hope it is.

The video has been taken down. No luck for me. But I love the acknowledgment. A truly romantic scene. As many have said before, basically Ron's declaration of love. Even more so than in the book, IMO.

That auto-tune is truly awesome! I found another source for it, here you go:

http://www.popsugar.com/Oscar-Autotune-Movie-Montage-Featuring-Eclipse-Harry-Potter-Social-Network-14522348

PS: If posting links is against the rules, feel free to remove the link, Mods.

Shaun_MT

March 1st, 2011, 10:33 am

I love that they manipulated it so Ron actually says "you're my tiny ball of light".

I loved that too!

Because that's what he's essentially saying in that speech.

I always felt that when Ron heard Hermione say his name, he felt as if she was telling him to remember who he was and that it wasn't the real Ron that walked out on them and that she was telling him to return to his old self. Also, she was calling for him to return to her.

(As others have said) the ball of light was Hermione, guiding him back. Doing what she always does looking out for guiding the sometimes wayward Ron.

I've always felt that while Harry feels lost when Ron isn't around (such as GoF and when Ron abandons them in DH), Ron feels lost when Hermione isn't around (like in CoS when she's petrified, HBP when they're estranged and in DH when he leaves), more so than if Harry isn't. The way he needs her to help him with his homework, to support him when he's low because he's poor or he's doing bad at Quidditch or just to help him when he's baffled. It's Hermione he actually looks to.

Just my opinion =)

EDIT: Oh! And I loved it how in the "Tiny Ball of Light" video when they say "Hey", it's done almost in the same way as part of the Ron's Speech piece of music. I dunno if I'm hearing things but the music in the back sorta hits the same notes. Someone with a better ear might be able to prove me right or prove me wrong, but I just liked that part anyway =)

ArryGrotter

March 16th, 2011, 10:04 am

From the DH2 thread that got off topic:

^This. And about the amount of Harry/Hermione stuff I have this to say: Ron was a **** to Harry and hermione and he abandoned both of them. Yes, he was under the influence of the locket, but it simply enhanced what he was feeling. Hermione was heartbroken, and this left her emotionally torn and vulnerable. Now given that both Harry/Hermione are both at an age where their hormones are running rampant it is unrealistic to believe that at some point during Ron's abandonment one of them would not entertain the notion of "what-if." It doesn't matter that Hermione likes Ron or that Harry is Ron's best friend or even that Harry has no feelings but friendship for Hermione. Hormones don't follow those rules. When you put two teens of the opposite sex in a cramped tent in constant close proximaty with little to no privacy for months on end stuff can and may happen. Its nature so I don't see what the big deal is. Now all that said, the ONLY thing they did was have a goofy dance in an attempt to cheer each other up, and MAYBE looked like they MIGHT kiss which goes back to what I was saying about hormones. One of them in that moment was entertaing the notion "what-if" which is normal and completely harmless. J.K. Rowling herself even said that had Ron not come back hermione and harry may have ended up together. Obviously that wasn't how she wrote it, but it shows that she isn't oblivious to the fact that hormones play a big role in attraction and when you have one option for months on end and you are emotionally vulnerable you will look for some kind of comfort in the one person you are stuck with. Yates, kloves, and Heyman were simply realizing this fact in the film. Above all Ron and Hermione end up together and we all know that. Anything before is simply progress and means nothing in the end. Hope I didn't offend anyone. I apologize if I did.

Very nicely put.

I do not believe that is what she said!
This is your interpretation!

There is an interview somewhere with Steve Kloves about Harry and Hermione's dance scene in DH1 where he said he consulted Jo and said that comment.

messrsmoony

March 16th, 2011, 10:27 am

And about the amount of Harry/Hermione stuff I have this to say: Ron was a **** to Harry and hermione and he abandoned both of them. Yes, he was under the influence of the locket, but it simply enhanced what he was feeling. Hermione was heartbroken, and this left her emotionally torn and vulnerable. Now given that both Harry/Hermione are both at an age where their hormones are running rampant it is unrealistic to believe that at some point during Ron's abandonment one of them would not entertain the notion of "what-if." It doesn't matter that Hermione likes Ron or that Harry is Ron's best friend or even that Harry has no feelings but friendship for Hermione. Hormones don't follow those rules. When you put two teens of the opposite sex in a cramped tent in constant close proximaty with little to no privacy for months on end stuff can and may happen. Its nature so I don't see what the big deal is. Now all that said, the ONLY thing they did was have a goofy dance in an attempt to cheer each other up, and MAYBE looked like they MIGHT kiss which goes back to what I was saying about hormones. One of them in that moment was entertaing the notion "what-if" which is normal and completely harmless. J.K. Rowling herself even said that had Ron not come back hermione and harry may have ended up together. Obviously that wasn't how she wrote it, but it shows that she isn't oblivious to the fact that hormones play a big role in attraction and when you have one option for months on end and you are emotionally vulnerable you will look for some kind of comfort in the one person you are stuck with. Yates, kloves, and Heyman were simply realizing this fact in the film. Above all Ron and Hermione end up together and we all know that. Anything before is simply progress and means nothing in the end. Hope I didn't offend anyone. I apologize if I did.

I completely disagree with what you said about Ron being a **** to Harry and Hermione. I would have acted in the same way if I were in his place. What reason did he have to say? He thought that the girl he loved preferred his best friend to him, that they didn't need him, that they would be 'better' without him and on top of all of that, he didn't know whether his family were dead or alive. He probably thought that in leaving, he would be doing them a favour. I don't understand why this makes him a ****.

snugglepot

March 16th, 2011, 10:38 am

From the DH2 thread that got off topic:

Very nicely put.

There is an interview somewhere with Steve Kloves about Harry and Hermione's dance scene in DH1 where he said he consulted Jo and said that comment.

So Jo said, Quote

"If Ron hadn't come back, Harry and Hermione would have ended up together!"?
Those very words?
Not anything but those words?

J17

March 16th, 2011, 11:07 am

I completely disagree with what you said about Ron being a **** to Harry and Hermione. I would have acted in the same way if I were in his place. What reason did he have to say? He thought that the girl he loved preferred his best friend to him, that they didn't need him, that they would be 'better' without him and on top of all of that, he didn't know whether his family were dead or alive. He probably thought that in leaving, he would be doing them a favour. I don't understand why this makes him a ****.

It was childish and selfish. There were bigger and more pressing matters going on than his personal feelings. If he had just talked to Hermione about feeling left out and about his feeling for her none of it would have happened. I can't entirely blame him thought, because of the locket. But Ron is a little daft when it comes to the whole relationship and feelings department. Also, you kind of missed the whole purpose of my post only to focus on one insignificant thing. The purpose of my post was to point out that Ron started a chain of events that very well could have led to Hermione ending up with Harry. He left Hermione an emotional wreck. People make irrational and decisions they wouldn't normally make when they are an emotional wreck. When you add hormones, limited space, constant interaction with the opposite sex, and little to no privacy on top of a person who is an emotional wreck it can lead to things happening. The only thing that happened in the movie is that they danced to cheer each other up and maybe possibly almost kissed so its not that big of a deal. Completely platonic people can dance without any emotional backing behind it. And the almost kiss was within the realm of possibility. Its not like Yates had them do anything sexual. Some just seem to be making a mountain out of a mole hill. As I said, we all know who she ends up with so anything in between is just progress.

So Jo said, Quote

"If Ron hadn't come back, Harry and Hermione would have ended up together!"?
Those very words?
Not anything but those words?

Here is the interview. Rowling clearly says "it could have gone that way."
Quote:
"I tried very hard to soften it, I suppose," Jo said. "Just because someone had a view on Harry/Hermione didn't mean they weren't genuine, or that they were necessarily misguided. In fact, I will say this, Steve Kloves who has been the script writer [on the Potter films], who is enormously insightful on the series and a very good friend, after he read book seven he said to me, 'You, know, I thought something was going to happen between Harry and Hermione, and I didn't know whether I wanted it or not.'

"I had always planned that Harry's true soul mate, which I stand by, is Ginny, and that Ron and Hermione have this combative but mutual attraction. They will always bicker, there will always be rough edges there, but they are pulled together, each has something the other needs."

I stared at her, sensing she wasn't finished, and a sense of foreboding crept in around the edges.

"[Kloves] felt a certain pulll between them at that point. And I think he's right. There are moments when [Harry and Hermione] touch, which are charged moments. One when she touches his hair as he sits on the hiltop reading about Dumbledore and Grindelwald, and [two] the moment when they walk out of the graveyard with their arms around each other."

I was holding my breath at this point. She wasn't done.

"Now the fact is that Hermione shares moments with Harry that Ron will never be able to participate in. He walked out. She shared something very instense with Harry.

"So I think it could have gone that way."

source: snitchseeker

Once again I don't mean to offend, and I apologize if have.

GingerCat1

March 16th, 2011, 2:03 pm

JKR was merely trying to appease a certain section of her fan base by saying that as she said many times that right from the first book she had already decided that the romantic pairings would be Ron/Hermione and Harry/Ginny.

Unfortunately after the interview where JKR called H/Hr shippers delusional she got quite a backlash and i think after that interview she seems reluctant to say anything that will offend her fan base (no matter how crazy they are).

messrsmoony

March 16th, 2011, 6:01 pm

It was childish and selfish. There were bigger and more pressing matters going on than his personal feelings. If he had just talked to Hermione about feeling left out and about his feeling for her none of it would have happened. I can't entirely blame him thought, because of the locket. But Ron is a little daft when it comes to the whole relationship and feelings department. Also, you kind of missed the whole purpose of my post only to focus on one insignificant thing. The purpose of my post was to point out that Ron started a chain of events that very well could have led to Hermione ending up with Harry. He left Hermione an emotional wreck. People make irrational and decisions they wouldn't normally make when they are an emotional wreck. When you add hormones, limited space, constant interaction with the opposite sex, and little to no privacy on top of a person who is an emotional wreck it can lead to things happening. The only thing that happened in the movie is that they danced to cheer each other up and maybe possibly almost kissed so its not that big of a deal. Completely platonic people can dance without any emotional backing behind it. And the almost kiss was within the realm of possibility. Its not like Yates had them do anything sexual. Some just seem to be making a mountain out of a mole hill. As I said, we all know who she ends up with so anything in between is just progress.

I agree with what you're saying about Harry and Hermione. I just strongly disagree with your comments about Ron. I really don't think he was being selfish at all. He thought that they would be 'better off without' him and therefore in leaving, he thought (albeit misguidedly) that he was doing them a favour. I think that he was completely justified in leaving.

GingerCat1

March 16th, 2011, 6:44 pm

It was childish and selfish. There were bigger and more pressing matters going on than his personal feelings. If he had just talked to Hermione about feeling left out and about his feeling for her none of it would have happened. I can't entirely blame him thought, because of the locket. But Ron is a little daft when it comes to the whole relationship and feelings department. Also, you kind of missed the whole purpose of my post only to focus on one insignificant thing. The purpose of my post was to point out that Ron started a chain of events that very well could have led to Hermione ending up with Harry. He left Hermione an emotional wreck. People make irrational and decisions they wouldn't normally make when they are an emotional wreck. When you add hormones, limited space, constant interaction with the opposite sex, and little to no privacy on top of a person who is an emotional wreck it can lead to things happening. The only thing that happened in the movie is that they danced to cheer each other up and maybe possibly almost kissed so its not that big of a deal. Completely platonic people can dance without any emotional backing behind it. And the almost kiss was within the realm of possibility. Its not like Yates had them do anything sexual. Some just seem to be making a mountain out of a mole hill. As I said, we all know who she ends up with so anything in between is just progress.

You must not think much of Harry if you think that as you are having him cheat on Ginny. While they are technically not going out at the time Harry made it clear to Ginny in the beginning of the book that he was going to be single and as soon as they war was over they could be together. That was a commitment of sorts and with you scenario you would have Harry as the type of guy who would cheat on his girlfriend.

Harsh_Potter

March 16th, 2011, 7:18 pm

I agree with what you're saying about Harry and Hermione. I just strongly disagree with your comments about Ron. I really don't think he was being selfish at all. He thought that they would be 'better off without' him and therefore in leaving, he thought (albeit misguidedly) that he was doing them a favour. I think that he was completely justified in leaving.

Ron wasn't justified at all in leaving. When Ron left, it was like a stab in the back for his two best friends. He was leaving them especially when the going got rough, breaking his promise to them.

I can understand his reasons for leaving, understand the effect the Horcrux had on him. Yet the Horcrux enhanced most of the stuff which he, himself, was feeling at the time. A big part of his leaving (apart from the Horcrux feeding off him) was his inability to deal with his insecurities and his jealousy and his inability to deal with his feeling of being overshadowed by his two best friends. He did not leave for any altruistic reason (the Horcrux, I doubt it would ever find anything altruistic in the world).

GingerCat1

March 16th, 2011, 7:22 pm

Ron wasn't justified at all in leaving. When Ron left, it was like a stab in the back for his two best friends. He was leaving them especially when the going got rough, breaking his promise to them.

I can understand his reasons for leaving, understand the effect the Horcrux had on him. Yet the Horcrux enhanced most of the stuff which he, himself, was feeling at the time. A big part of his leaving (apart from the Horcrux feeding off him) was his inability to deal with his insecurities and his jealousy and his inability to deal with his feeling of being overshadowed by his two best friends. He did not leave for any altruistic reason (the Horcrux, I doubt it would ever find anything altruistic in the world).

Ron didn't care about that in the sense that he didn't care about the attention Harry got from the outside world as he had gotten over that in 4th year and i don't recall him ever being jealous of Hermione. What upset Ron, what the locket focused on was the belief that he was somehow inferior to Harry and that Hermione would never love him as much as he loved her.

He wasn't jealous of Harry for any reason other than he thought Hermione had feelings for Harry and not him and as i am sure you are all aware jealousy is a very powerful emotion (especially powerful if the locket is bringing those thoughts to the front of Ron's mind).

J17

March 17th, 2011, 3:17 am

You must not think much of Harry if you think that as you are having him cheat on Ginny. While they are technically not going out at the time Harry made it clear to Ginny in the beginning of the book that he was going to be single and as soon as they war was over they could be together. That was a commitment of sorts and with you scenario you would have Harry as the type of guy who would cheat on his girlfriend.

Nope not at all. I am merely pointing out that for a lesser person cheating would have been in the cards as a possibility. The dance was completely platonic and requires no thought or concern. As far the maybe almost kiss I think that is simply a product of the fact that as of yet it is not clear how strongly harry feels about Ginny which is most certainly a sad misstep in the films. If you take the films at face value many people don't yet know Ginny and harry hook up so for the average Joe that moment where harry and hermione may have almost kissed creates a "will they, won't they" aspect. Its simply done to add a dynamic to the films for the people who have no clue that harry cares about ginny so much. I mean in the movies harry and ginny have kissed twice which doesn't paint them as a couple. So in the movie universe only something could have happened based on the lack of a firm relationship between ginny and harry being present in the films. Now had they set Ginny and harry up as being madly in love then yeah i would maybe be upset at the almost kiss thing, but as it stands in the movies it was plausible. Fans tend to try to make certain aspects of the books fit certain aspects of the movie and this leads to fans getting upset about stuff like this. You cant take something from the books and judge something drom the movies. I cant judge madam maxims character in the movies based on how she treated hagrid in the book gof and it is like that with any aspect. They are seperate entities. Harry and ginnys relationship that exists in tthe books doesnt exist n the movies so you cant judge a scene from the movie based on something from the books that doesn't exist in the films. In the books they are madly in love but in the movies they like each other and aren't even serious yet. I just try to view the movies in their own right and seperate from the books.

GingerCat1

March 17th, 2011, 3:22 am

decarus

March 17th, 2011, 3:56 am

In the dance there was clearly sexual tension between the two of them. I am fine with it. If anything it added another layer and i am fine with saying that it is because they are messed up because of the horcrux and because of Ron leaving them. The thing is nothing came of it. Is it different then the book? Yes. But i think it worked in the film.

J17

March 17th, 2011, 3:58 am

That is just Kloves and Yates completely stuffing up the Harry/Ginny relationship (and the character Ginny in general).

The writer/director shouldn't compound one mistake with how the characters are portrayed with more after that. In the books it is clear that Ginny is the girl for Harry and from HBP onwards he has never even considered another girl in that way. Not only did Kloves screw up here but he compounded the error by making it look like Harry had feelings for Hermione.

I know in the books she plays a big part, but in the movies up until movie 6 she is just ron's sister and that's how the movie audience views her. The relationship in the movies is completely out of left field because we know nothing about her to give us any reason to care about why harry would hook up with her. Truth is Ron and Hermiones relationship is easier to deal with because they are main players in the story. They are alwayd on the screen. Ginny isnt always on the screen.To get an audience to invest in a relationship of two character they have to be invested on the characters and nobody but the readers were investvin her character until movie 6. The audience is invested in ron and hermione thats why their relationship is easier to deal with in the films. This is also a result of wb not waiting for all the books to come out. They started making these films when ginny was nothing but a blip on the radar in the books. They wasnt able to lay any foundation with her character and get the aidience invested because they had no idea her character would play out like that. By the time HBP book came out we were 4 movies in and ginny barely existed and 5 movies in is late to start establishing a character of her size when you already have so much to begin setting up for the final books. I think kloves just decided to cut the relationship down rather than trying to suddenly make a character go from a glorified extra to a big player in the series. Her character and relationship with harry was a bittersweet sacrifice brought about by a multitude of poor planning and bad decisions.

GingerCat1

March 17th, 2011, 4:04 am

J17

March 17th, 2011, 4:27 am

The book Harry Potter and the Half Blood Prince was released on 16th July 2005 and i think its safe to say Kloves got his hands on that book before then. Goblet of Fire (the movie) wasn't released until 1st December 2005. That means the film makers knew about Harry and Ginny getting together months before they even started filming Order of the Phoenix and since that is the case they should have upped Ginny's role in that movie as in the books Ginny did have increased role (a increased role that was almost ignored in the movie).

Kloves did not write the screenplay for OOTP. Michael Goldenburg wrote it.It isnt Kloves fault Goldenburg didnt include this. But like I said it was too late in the game. They had to establish lots of things that would play out in the final movies. Plus they had to establish a relationship with Cho that would go absolutely no where in the movies. Cho's character should have been left out of OOTP. That way they could establish Ginny and show Harry's interest in her then in 6 they hook up. In the end though there are bigger things in the story. The audience isn't going to watch this to see if harry hooks up with anyone. They are going to see if harry can defeat voldemort. That is the center of these films so the relationship was always going to take a hit. Besides the movies already have a major relationship with characters the audience is already fully invested in. Ron and hermione are the major relationship in these films.

GingerCat1

March 17th, 2011, 4:32 am

Kloves did not write the screenplay for OOTP. Michael Goldenburg wrote it.It isnt Kloves fault Goldenburg didnt include this. But like I said it was too late in the game. They had to establish lots of things that would play out in the final movies. Plus they had to establish a relationship with Cho that would go absolutely no where in the movies. Cho's character should have been left out of OOTP. That way they could establish Ginny and show Harry's interest in her then in 6 they hook up.

They don't mind adding Harry/Hermione scenes that were not in the books so why would it have been a problem to add a few Harry/Ginny scenes.

In Deathly Hallows Part 1 it would have been nice if Harry looked at Ginny's name on the the Marauders Map every so often to show that he cares about her and is thinking about her. Instead after the first 40 minutes of the movie you would never guess that Harry was in love with Ginny.

J17

March 17th, 2011, 4:49 am

They don't mind adding Harry/Hermione scenes that were not in the books so why would it have been a problem to add a few Harry/Ginny scenes.

In Deathly Hallows Part 1 it would have been nice if Harry looked at Ginny's name on the the Marauders Map every so often to show that he cares about her and is thinking about her. Instead after the first 40 minutes of the movie you would never guess that Harry was in love with Ginny.

There is in fact a deleted moment in DH1 were Harry is watching Ginny on the marauders map. They cut this stuff and paired it down for pacing reasons. There is already enough going on in these films without an added love story. And the harry/hermione scenes aren't as numerous as some like to believe. The dance scene seems to be the worst offender, but honestly do you think harry wouldn't try something to cheer hermione up? All there scenes together come across as friends and nothing more. She is either supporting him in some way or he is supporting her which is what friends do for each other. And any person who dances like that but is willing to try anyways to cheer a friend up is alright. So its suppossed to come across as endearing and sweet but instead some want to burn the writers and WB at the stake because they think they want harry to hook up with hermione.

GingerCat1

March 17th, 2011, 4:58 am

There is in fact a deleted moment in DH1 were Harry is watching Ginny on the marauders map. They cut this stuff and paired it down for pacing reasons. There is already enough going on in these films without an added love story. And the harry/hermione scenes aren't as numerous as some like to believe. The dance scene seems to be the worst offender, but honestly do you think harry wouldn't try something to cheer hermione up? All there scenes together come across as friends and nothing more. She is either supporting him in some way or he is supporting her which is what friends do for each other. And any person who dances like that but is willing to try anyways to cheer a friend up is alright. So its suppossed to come across as endearing and sweet but instead some want to burn the writers and WB at the stake because they think they want harry to hook up with hermione.

In the book he did not. Harry was so consumed with his own grief of not being with Ginny and Ron leaving that he was incapable of trying to cheer up Hermione. In fact in the book i don't think Harry made any kind of effort to lift Hermione's spirits.

HedwigOwl

March 17th, 2011, 6:17 am

In the book he did not. Harry was so consumed with his own grief of not being with Ginny and Ron leaving that he was incapable of trying to cheer up Hermione. In fact in the book i don't think Harry made any kind of effort to lift Hermione's spirits.

It depends on how you look at what's written on page. There was no dance, obviously. But Harry did think about Hermione, noticed when she was upset, or was crying at night instead of sleeping. But neither one of them, Harry nor Hermione, wanted to talk about Ron. Neither said his name. Both were devastated by Ron's leaving for different reasons. Both avoided talking about it. Both were depressed and worn out. I think it's unfair to criticize Harry for not being cheery. It wasn't a cheery situation. Ron left, after saying mean things to both of them. They were hurt and stunned; there was still the problem of being hunted by DE's, and trying to figure out the horcrux problem, horrible weather, lack of sleep and proper food. Neither one could manage to be cheery, which seems normal under the circumstances.

That being said, they both did the best they could. They cared about each other and kept trying to move forward. I think that's all the dance in the movie symbolizes --- two close friends trying to help each other so they don't completely fall apart. It's different than the book, but I think it expresses the poignant moments they shared when they were left on their own (as in Godric's Hollow).

GingerCat1

March 17th, 2011, 7:07 am

It depends on how you look at what's written on page. There was no dance, obviously. But Harry did think about Hermione, noticed when she was upset, or was crying at night instead of sleeping. But neither one of them, Harry nor Hermione, wanted to talk about Ron. Neither said his name. Both were devastated by Ron's leaving for different reasons. Both avoided talking about it. Both were depressed and worn out. I think it's unfair to criticize Harry for not being cheery. It wasn't a cheery situation. Ron left, after saying mean things to both of them. They were hurt and stunned; there was still the problem of being hunted by DE's, and trying to figure out the horcrux problem, horrible weather, lack of sleep and proper food. Neither one could manage to be cheery, which seems normal under the circumstances.

I am not blaming Harry for being insensitive to Hermione's feelings and making no real effort to make her a bit happier as like you said he was going through his own problems at the time. What i am saying is that the dance in the movie was out of character for Harry because in the book he didn't make any attempt to lift Hermione's spirits as he was to focused on his own pain.

improvkari

March 30th, 2011, 7:04 am

I loved the dance scene. It was so lovely that these two friends, who are almost like family, could be themselves just for a moment and dance and trust each other. I didn't see anything particularly romantic in it. Actually, my best friend has danced with me to brighten my mood before, and it's really sweet. The most real part of it was that once they stopped, it was back to reality.

darklordspal

March 30th, 2011, 6:55 pm

I saw an interview withthe director of DH 1 and he says that there is the intention to make the audience wonder if Harry and and Hermione are going to fall for each other. It seems pretty clear to me by that statement and what I saw on the screen there was an attempt by the director, screenwriter, etc. to indicate H\Hr.

I can understand why some would like the scene. It is entertaining and fun to watch. But they so bolluxed up Ron's character in the movies, and now they messed up the H\G and H\Hr relationships by adding the dance scene it really irritates me. The Weasleys are just background stock characters for movieH\Hr and the books were so much more than that. What a waste of dramatic potential.

jallen

March 30th, 2011, 9:03 pm

Kloves did not write the screenplay for OOTP. Michael Goldenburg wrote it.It isnt Kloves fault Goldenburg didnt include this. But like I said it was too late in the game. They had to establish lots of things that would play out in the final movies. Plus they had to establish a relationship with Cho that would go absolutely no where in the movies. Cho's character should have been left out of OOTP. That way they could establish Ginny and show Harry's interest in her then in 6 they hook up. In the end though there are bigger things in the story. The audience isn't going to watch this to see if harry hooks up with anyone. They are going to see if harry can defeat voldemort. That is the center of these films so the relationship was always going to take a hit. Besides the movies already have a major relationship with characters the audience is already fully invested in. Ron and hermione are the major relationship in these films.

I agree. However, about excluding Cho altogether - don't you think fans would have reacted insanely to that? We/they are rather picky about that sort of thing.

ajna

March 31st, 2011, 3:11 am

I am not blaming Harry for being insensitive to Hermione's feelings and making no real effort to make her a bit happier as like you said he was going through his own problems at the time. What i am saying is that the dance in the movie was out of character for Harry because in the book he didn't make any attempt to lift Hermione's spirits as he was to focused on his own pain.

But we all know the books are not the movies, and they really shouldn't always be.

GingerCat1

March 31st, 2011, 3:25 am

But we all know the books are not the movies, and they really shouldn't always be.

If we are going to have that attitude why did they bother casting Daniel Radcliffe in the first place when they could have cast a tall (well tall for a 11 year old) really good looking kid who girls could swoon over like they do in Twilight.

They could change Hermione as well so she isn't quite so interested in books and more interested in wearing clothing that practically begs the audience to stare at her cleavage. Then they could have cast Ron as a mini hulk casting the strongest 11 year old red head they could possibly find.

Then we could have a proper love triangle as Hermione spends most of her time in a push up bra and Ron and Harry always somehow manage to end up not wearing shirts.

While we are at it why don't the producers move the movie to the USA and make all the characters American.

decarus

March 31st, 2011, 3:31 am

I agree. There has to be a line. Just not everyone's line is the same. I totally think that it was implied that there was a maybe something could have happened moment during the dance. I could completely understand why that would bother people. I also think it is out of character not from the books necessarily but from Harry. Harry was never the confident even in the films. But even with the implied sexual tension i am okay with the scene. I do think it seems more then reasonable to hate the scene though because it seems so out of character.

Fury

March 31st, 2011, 3:32 am

Edit: Oops... sorry, wrong thread. Mods, please delete this.

ajna

March 31st, 2011, 4:48 am

If we are going to have that attitude why did they bother casting Daniel Radcliffe in the first place when they could have cast a tall (well tall for a 11 year old) really good looking kid who girls could swoon over like they do in Twilight.

They could change Hermione as well so she isn't quite so interested in books and more interested in wearing clothing that practically begs the audience to stare at her cleavage. Then they could have cast Ron as a mini hulk casting the strongest 11 year old red head they could possibly find.

Then we could have a proper love triangle as Hermione spends most of her time in a push up bra and Ron and Harry always somehow manage to end up not wearing shirts.

While we are at it why don't the producers move the movie to the USA and make all the characters American.

I think that directors and writers like to find different ways to explore characters. I think that it's really not possible to depict everything we read in books. The characters in HP are really quite complex. We can never get to know them the way we know them in the books. But clearly, directors and writers like to explore other avenues that are more directed towards pure viewership. I actually like the scene precisely because it does manage to convey some complication and complexity in the characters that we don't really get to see much. No, not true to the book, but true to human nature and bringing out human nature and complexity, for me, especially in these movies is very enjoyable for me. I like some of the ways they choose to portray Draco's vulnerability also.

GingerCat1

March 31st, 2011, 4:54 am

I think that directors and writers like to find different ways to explore characters. I think that it's really not possible to depict everything we read in books. The characters in HP are really quite complex. We can never get to know them the way we know them in the books. But clearly, directors and writers like to explore other avenues that are more directed towards pure viewership. I actually like the scene precisely because it does manage to convey some complication and complexity in the characters that we don't really get to see much. No, not true to the book, but true to human nature and bringing out human nature and complexity, for me, especially in these movies is very enjoyable for me. I like some of the ways they choose to portray Draco's vulnerability also.

Saying there is sexual tension between Harry and Hermione only cheapens the Harry/Hermione friendship in my opinion. What makes the relationship unique is that there is no sexual tension between them and Yates and Kloves decided to get rid of that.

improvkari

March 31st, 2011, 5:01 am

Saying there is sexual tension between Harry and Hermione only cheapens the Harry/Hermione friendship in my opinion.

I agree here. Their friendship is special. They love each other in that way that doesn't need sexual tension to be real or interesting. This is the only way the three of them could work, with Ron and Hermione being together. If there had been anything there even in the beginning with Hermione and Harry, they might have created a problem...or even drifted apart. Their love for each other as friends is the glue that keeps the three of them together. (And obviously Harry's connection to Ron and his family).

Harsh_Potter

March 31st, 2011, 4:21 pm

Ron didn't care about that in the sense that he didn't care about the attention Harry got from the outside world as he had gotten over that in 4th year and i don't recall him ever being jealous of Hermione. What upset Ron, what the locket focused on was the belief that he was somehow inferior to Harry and that Hermione would never love him as much as he loved her.

He wasn't jealous of Harry for any reason other than he thought Hermione had feelings for Harry and not him and as i am sure you are all aware jealousy is a very powerful emotion (especially powerful if the locket is bringing those thoughts to the front of Ron's mind).

The line (I don't have my book with me): 'We were better without you, happier without you' which the locket-Horcrux says to Ron, speaks to me that Ron was insecure of his place in the Trio and felt overshadowed by both his best friends. He couldn't see his use to both his best friends.
That is what I got from that line from the book.

He was not jealous of Hermione as such. But useless, he definitely felt useless, infront of her. :shrug:

Rookie_Angel

March 31st, 2011, 4:50 pm

meenaxi

April 1st, 2011, 10:50 am

Personally for me, the whole locket horcrux plot was not satisfying.
I think ron's issues should have been dealt with earlier in the series. if she didnt want to fully deal with Ron's issues in GOF then atleast his jealousy issues there and then his feelign of worthlessness to hermione in Book 6. Hook them up in book 6 and close that chapter..
during a time when its not even sure whether harry is going to live or not and a massive war going on and harry, him and hermione being on the run with an inevitable confrontation between harry and magically superior voldy, ron worrying about hermione liking harry more than him feels very shallow to me... Now i have heard endlessly about how there was zero ron;s fault and 100% locket fault in that.. but i think its canon that locket only intensified ron's existing feelings..

but well.. that is what the author chose to do.. but it was not my favourite part of DH for sure..

GingerCat1

April 1st, 2011, 10:58 am

wandrider

April 1st, 2011, 6:01 pm

I think that the point of that scene wasn't so much,"Hey, there might be something between Harry and Hermione! Whoo hoo!" as it was, "Yes, they are human, so the concept might have been considered for one brief moment in the harshest of circumstances because they were people very close to one another who cared deeply for each other, but almost instantly this theoretical idea was recognized and disregarded as, "No, I guess not; that's not who we are to each other...", and gone one from.Hasn't JKR spoken specifically about this dancing tent scene? She has indirectly through David Heyman Producer... Heyman said JKR loves this dancing scene, and he thinks she wished she had even thought of it too. He acknowledges there might have been a relationship between H&H beyond friendship, but it did not happen. I believe this is still a pivotal moment that might have tipped to the romantic side 'beyond' one dance. It ended as a slow dance for a few seconds, and at 16-17yo hormones can inspire at least a romantic context. Plus, Hermione & Harry were always 'there' for each other. Very loyal & close & bound in friendship that was a real love too. Unusual for teens that age, imo, to have it remain *always* at just that level. (But, did the DH book or any HP book ever hint at some closeness beyond friendship between H&H? The book had no dance in the tent.)

I believe someone in JKR's World that is knowledgeable about her thoughts has stated that if Ron had 'not' returned in that time frame, yes, a what if, then Hermione & Harry might likely have become boyfriend-girlfriend isolated together sharing that tent 24/7. Would it have lasted? Let's put it this way, JKR does review the movie scripts with authority to change or add if necessary. She is a Co-Producer of DH1 & DH2. This is a known fact, so at least JKR found it plausible enough to allow that dance scene to happen between Hermione & Harry. She could overrule that scene excluding it if it seemed like sacrilege to her, but it is known, instead, JKR loves that H&H dance scene & wishes she had thought of it too. :tu:

I remain idealistic with Rookie_Angel's viewpoint & believe that is true to form in the Trio's relations. I was never into any shipping wars. :angel:

Erin6

April 2nd, 2011, 12:24 am

Just saw the skipping stones scene. It is super cute! they should have left it in the movie.

iambeffy89

April 2nd, 2011, 12:59 am

I really liked the Skipping Stones scene :) I liked it because it looked natural, and that might be because of the degree of improvisation. Although it did look like Hermione was begging for attention, but that's what girls who like someone do :P

No, it probably wouldn't have suited the feel of the film, but it would have justified Ron's jealousy more, and it would have shown the audience that there were feelings on both ends, not just on Ron's. It would have also served to lighten the mood of the film in the right way, I would have prefered this over the humour during the Malfoy Manor scene.

GingerCat1

April 2nd, 2011, 1:05 am

Looking at the stone throwing scene i actually think it would have worked extremely well near the beginning of Deathly Hallows Part 2 when they are at Shell Cottage.

iambeffy89

April 2nd, 2011, 1:31 am

Valid point GingerCat :D I would love to see that scene in one of the movies.

magic_is_might

April 2nd, 2011, 2:24 am

Erin6

April 2nd, 2011, 3:13 am

The dance was pretty much like watching emma and dan, although more dan then anything. I don't know. I just feel like that would have been a great scene to show that their were feelings on both sides, and it would have balanced out the dance IMO.

PotterGurl08

April 2nd, 2011, 3:22 am

I also loved the skipping scene :) I understand why it was cut though - it felt like we were watching Emma and Rupert skip stones, not Ron and Hermione :shrug: But it really was an adorable scene. I'm really glad they included it on the disc.

I agree. I just watched the scene. Cute, but it makes sense that it wasn't included. It just seems out-of-character for Ron and Hermione, and it doesn't quite fit the tone of the film, imo.

Destiny4

April 3rd, 2011, 3:58 am

I was just really hoping to see something that showed Harry thinking about Ginny while gone like he does in the book after Ron leaves.

MsBinns

April 3rd, 2011, 6:09 am

I didn't love the skipping stones scene. I was so looking forward to it and was a bit underwhelmed. I feel about it kind of the way that I feel about the dance scene. The chemistry between the actors is believable, I love seeing them interact and I get what they were trying to convey, but it did not feel at all like Ron and Hermione. I never read their interaction in Deathly Hallows as flirty in any way, which is how this scene came off. In my opinion it was not at all fitting the nature of their relationship at this point (at least how I see it) - nevermind the circumstances of the Horcrux hunt and the growing despair of the trio.

I don't think anyone can deny it's a cute scene and the notion that Hermione would feign ignorance on purpose is definitely an interesting one. I don't know that I could ever see Hermione purposely doing badly at something, even if there is an ulterior motive behind it (getting Ron to touch her/be affectionate with her).

Nonetheless, I am glad they filmed it and especially glad they decided to include it on the DVD (especially considering how many minutes of cut footage will never see the light of day).

magnolia7

April 4th, 2011, 5:47 am

I just saw the skipping stones scene! I thought it was really cute <3 I kept saying awwwww. I think Ron and Hermione act differnet when they are alone not when Harry is around. I understand why its a deleted scene though, it doesnt fit into the mood they are facing. Its really cute though and I love!

my favorite part is when Hermione throws the first rock and says "so kinda like this?" and Ron pauses and says "no" with a grin. :)

merrymarge

April 4th, 2011, 5:33 pm

the skipping stone scene didn't make sense. Since when did Hermione, the brightest witch in her age group and Ron Weasley, a pure-blood, act like Muggles? the scene was filmed not for the movie, but for the special scenes to be added on the blu-ray.

Erin6

April 4th, 2011, 8:19 pm

harry and hermione dancing is out of character too, and that scene didnt fit the mood of the movie at all. if they kept that in, the should have kept the skipping stones scene in.

Chocoron

April 4th, 2011, 8:56 pm

Hasn't JKR spoken specifically about this dancing tent scene? She has indirectly through David Heyman Producer... Heyman said JKR loves this dancing scene, and he thinks she wished she had even thought of it too. He acknowledges there might have been a relationship between H&H beyond friendship, but it did not happen. I believe this is still a pivotal moment that might have tipped to the romantic side 'beyond' one dance. It ended as a slow dance for a few seconds, and at 16-17yo hormones can inspire at least a romantic context. Plus, Hermione & Harry were always 'there' for each other. Very loyal & close & bound in friendship that was a real love too. Unusual for teens that age, imo, to have it remain *always* at just that level. (But, did the DH book or any HP book ever hint at some closeness beyond friendship between H&H? The book had no dance in the tent.)

I believe someone in JKR's World that is knowledgeable about her thoughts has stated that if Ron had 'not' returned in that time frame, yes, a what if, then Hermione & Harry might likely have become boyfriend-girlfriend isolated together sharing that tent 24/7. Would it have lasted? Let's put it this way, JKR does review the movie scripts with authority to change or add if necessary. She is a Co-Producer of DH1 & DH2. This is a known fact, so at least JKR found it plausible enough to allow that dance scene to happen between Hermione & Harry. She could overrule that scene excluding it if it seemed like sacrilege to her, but it is known, instead, JKR loves that H&H dance scene & wishes she had thought of it too. :tu:

I remain idealistic with Rookie_Angel's viewpoint & believe that is true to form in the Trio's relations. I was never into any shipping wars. :angel:

Hi guys :). This is my first ever post at Chamber of Secrets, and even I would judge myself for making this the first post, but I got reallly tempted to put in an opinion here.
Anyway, as I see, the scene in itself, yes, started out as a friendship moment between Harry and Hermione, where they just seek to escape the gloom just for a while and perhaps find some sort of comfort in each others presence, in their own goofy way. THOUGH, I think, in the last few moments (and only then, not at all when they dance), Harry lingers which was definitely him toeing the line with Hermione. She immediately spots this (women, are faaaar too well trained to spot such things, remarkable it is :D) and steps away, clear in her intent, and fully aware of the fact that it is nothing but a small desperate irrational act by Harry. There is no change in their equation after that, and they resume to be the Harry and Hermione we know.

Now that my view on the scene is out of the way, do I think it was appropriate or justified? Given the books, absolutely not. I have read the books through and through, related to them at every level, and except once (thats a post for another day), I have never found Rowling's description of the trio unrealistic or hard to believe. So I do think its possible for a guy and girl to share a deep bond without having even a moment of what if, especially if both are in love with someone else. I have often heard people say that even in the closest of friendships (b/w a guy and a girl of course) there is always atleast one moment wherein you consider each other as something more. I think it might be possible, but given how Rowling sketched out her characters, it was never hinted at in the book.

AND FROM THERE, i now take it to how I think Rowling is now dealing with the entire situation, and thats why I quoted you. To be honest, Rowling has ALWAYS, in ALL interviews stood by the fact that its Ron and Hermione through and through. Not only that, she has also ALWAYS said that Hermione and Harry are purely platonic friends. She has written them like that for God's sake. But then, DH happened, and all hell broke lose. She got TREMENDOUS backlash for establishing that its R/Hr from a large section of the H/Hr community.Now the producers recognize the fact that this happened, they recognize the fact that there are two huge sections of the fan base that they are dealing with, and while they want to remain true to the books, they dont want to antagonize the others. I know it sounds childish, no one after all seeks to please everyone, but this is a huge section of the fan base anyway. So I think a lot of H/Hr tension in the movies, is an aim to just keep the other fan base interested. Irrespective of what you say, money making is the ultimate aim, even for Rowling. I am not saying she is compromising on her integrity, I am not saying that at all, I just think she has reconciled herself to the fact that some people will just not view her characters as she sees them, and she is ok with people interpreting it as such, and allowing for such interpretations to exist as long as the end game remains the same (in the movies that is).
I refuse to believe that she wrote that two moments in the book that someone previously mentioned (the one where Hermione ruffles harrys hair) with the intention of or the possibility of an undercurrent b/w H/Hr. I think she has just sort of, given in on the idea of a different view existing, and she just doesn't want to take them on/ or offend them by imposing her own. Which is ok though, it pains me a little, because I believe the author should have the final word and should be fiercely possessive of their characters, but I guess this is a more selfless thing to do (or selfish if the motives are purely pecuniary, but since I love Rowling with all my heart I will not believe this to be true :) ).
Phew. :D