The end of the Statute of Secrecy

We live in a world that has much faster communications and better recording equipment than ever before. This raises a good question, will the Statue of Secrecy ever fall apart at some point because a video gets put on YouTube before it can be wiped and the person's memory erased?

What got me thinking about this was Hogwarts Exposed (not my own work) a timeline on alternate history forums. It involves the statue of secrecy breaking after Harry flies too close to a TV camera at the start of book 5.

Interesting.

I wonder if muggles would think it's some sort of camera trick or photo-shop type thing. Or if you'd have your few believers (like those who might believe in aliens) and others who think the "believers" might be crazy in some way.

I guess I don't see that it would completely be gone, because Muggles still would not be able to find wizard areas due to the charms put on, but you'd probably have a group of wizard-hunters (ghost-hunter types) who would be out to prove they do exist.

Hmm...I think The Ministry of Magic would probably have people monitoring YouTube or just the internet in general, just as in the books they have The Misuse of Muggle Artefacts Office. They'd probably get the help of the British PM as well, since in the books he knew about the wizarding world, and the videos would get taken down pretty fast, I imagine.

What got me thinking about this was Hogwarts Exposed (not my own work) a timeline on alternate history forums. It involves the statue of secrecy breaking after Harry flies too close to a TV camera at the start of book 5.

Wow, imagine being the person behind the camera seeing someone fly past on a broom. I think I'd faint.

I wonder if muggles would think it's some sort of camera trick or photo-shop type thing. Or if you'd have your few believers (like those who might believe in aliens) and others who think the "believers" might be crazy in some way.

I agree. I know I wouldn't believe it unless I saw it in person, heh.

Here (http://www.fanfiction.net/s/5369583/1/Starting_Summer) is a short fanfic that deals how the modern Muggle Worthy Excuse department works. As it suggests, I think the methods of keeping muggles uniformed are rather like the Men in Black Movies.

All the best,

Lunatic

Honestly, I think that no matter how careful all of the wizards are it would be next to impossible to keep the statute of secrecy active forever.

Do you mean the Statute of Secrecy?:hmm:

Do you mean the Statute of Secrecy?:hmm:

Yes, they do.

You can't really keep anything a secret forever, and as populations continue to increase, forcing expansion, and technology becomes more sophisticated.. eventually it'll come around full circle. However, I'm sure that many wizarding world details and such can remain hidden for much longer.
The interesting question this begs is, what will that do to muggle/wizard relations?

You can't really keep anything a secret forever, and as populations continue to increase, forcing expansion, and technology becomes more sophisticated.. eventually it'll come around full circle. However, I'm sure that many wizarding world details and such can remain hidden for much longer.
The interesting question this begs is, what will that do to muggle/wizard relations?

In Hogwarts Exposed the breaking of the Statute (sorry, I think I have a mental block with that word), there is nearly a nuclear war between a Voldermort led alliance of the Death Eaters (who take over China, Germany and India as well), North Korea, al-Qaeda and Hamas, and the good guys (the USA, Britain, South Korea etc...). Unfortunately I don't think it is that far off the mark.

You can't really keep anything a secret forever, and as populations continue to increase, forcing expansion, and technology becomes more sophisticated.. eventually it'll come around full circle. However, I'm sure that many wizarding world details and such can remain hidden for much longer.
The interesting question this begs is, what will that do to muggle/wizard relations?

The muggle world, from the pressure of the very expansion that you describe is one that is likely collapse fairly soon (say next 50 years) due to overexpansion, overuse of resources and it might happen before they discovered.

In that case, how does the magical world reacts as the muggle world becomes a boneyard.

In Hogwarts Exposed the breaking of the Statute (sorry, I think I have a mental block with that word), there is nearly a nuclear war between a Voldermort led alliance of the Death Eaters (who take over China, Germany and India as well), North Korea, al-Qaeda and Hamas, and the good guys (the USA, Britain, South Korea etc...). Unfortunately I don't think it is that far off the mark.

I wonder if the muggle world would react better if some realitives of Muggleborn wizards paved the way for the 'reveal' in some way.

The muggle world, from the pressure of the very expansion that you describe is one that is likely collapse fairly soon (say next 50 years) due to overexpansion, overuse of resources and it might happen before they discovered.

In that case, how does the magical world reacts as the muggle world becomes a boneyard.


WOw, Lunatic.. that's bleak! :whistle:

WOw, Lunatic.. that's bleak! :whistle:

But it is one likely outcome for the world we 'muggles' are building. Plenty of civilizations have died from overexpansion. The last 'dark age' was the Age of Arthur which seems to be one of the period where Wizards interacted with Muggles. Would they do so again under those circumstances or would they fall back between walls of magic?

I can't imagine the muggle and wizarding worlds ever getting on. I mean, come on! Imagine the amount of jealousy on the muggles part. IMO it'd probably turn half of us into Dursleys. There'd be anti-wizard groups, which would probably give rise to more anti-muggle believers and all hell would break loose as far as I can see.

The fact that the Harry Potter movies exist proves that things like flying and spells can be created with special effects... if something ever went up onto Youtube, I really doubt the entire world would collectively gasp and assume that wizards are real; there'd likely just be a few thousand "fake!!11!" comments. I mean, I'm sure you can google "UFO sightings" or "ghost sightings" and get a million realistic-looking pieces of evidence.

I'm not sure if the wizarding world would ever really be exposed (I'd think no, since it lasted this long and people are on top of this), but if it is, I don't think electronics would be the reason.

The fact that the Harry Potter movies exist proves that things like flying and spells can be created with special effects... if something ever went up onto Youtube, I really doubt the entire world would collectively gasp and assume that wizards are real; there'd likely just be a few thousand "fake!!11!" comments. I mean, I'm sure you can google "UFO sightings" or "ghost sightings" and get a million realistic-looking pieces of evidence.

I'm not sure if the wizarding world would ever really be exposed (I'd think no, since it lasted this long and people are on top of this), but if it is, I don't think electronics would be the reason.
Love this comment. I was actually going to say something similar. I can imagine that if something were to end up on YouTube before the Ministry could react to it, they would be quick in releasing "evidence" of it being a spoof or modified video. They could easily change the memory of the video-recording muggle to confess to the film's fabrication.

I also believe the magical world will always have to have an "veil" of secrecy about them. People tend to hate and destroy what they do not understand or fear. Look at our world today.... Racism and biggotry are still very much alive. People who don't understand a culture tend to frown upon and chastise this... much like the world of muggles vs. magical folk. They looked at their "gifts" as akwardness because they did not understand how they became that way. Much like some people look at special needs indviduals... Instead of looking at them for their natural beauty and many enhanced talents, people choose to ostricize them for their flawss and simplicity...

Well, there are a lot of fringe groups that believe in things that everybody else doesn't (including other fringe groups--perhaps especially other fringe groups). Of course, I don't for a moment believe in any of their specialties, heh heh, but suppose that one of them were true. I think they'd still have a hard time proving it, especially if the thing in question didn't want to be uncovered. People's belief systems tend to be very conservative--we generally stick to our beliefs irrationally, accepting reasonable evidence if it fits our beliefs, but rejecting equally reasonable evidence if it doesn't.

So I guess that is a rather long-winded way of saying no, I don't think the Statute of Secrecy would come to an end--at least not anytime soon.

I doubt it would end because I think that the Wizarding World would keep sharp tabs on it. Like someone else said, if a Muggle posted a video on YouTube, I'm sure the Ministry would catch wind of it, take the video down, and modify the memory of the one who posted it.

I think it would take a large scale wizard sighting by multiple muggles with video cameras to really endanger the Statue of Secrecy. Video editing has become advanced and easy enough that anything posted by one person on youtube wouldn't warrant any attention. I imagine that the Ministry would keep close tabs on all wizard sightings, but would generally take a hands off approach to dealing with small sightings. The truth of the wizarding world is so fantastic that no one would believe single persons coming forward with information. Erasing memories would be a last ditch effort if a situation gets too serious. As long as not too many more Ford Anglia-like situations occurred, the threat wouldn't be too great.

It would certainly be interesting though. However one may consider the issues that would occur, as muggles no longer innovated to solve issues and simply relied upon magical solutions. This would create a relationship more closely to a dependence (as I believe the book states) which to me means that the Ministry of Magic is afraid that wizards would abuse their ability to solve muggle problems and a slavery issue may come about from it.

It would certainly be interesting though. However one may consider the issues that would occur, as muggles no longer innovated to solve issues and simply relied upon magical solutions. This would create a relationship more closely to a dependence (as I believe the book states) which to me means that the Ministry of Magic is afraid that wizards would abuse their ability to solve muggle problems and a slavery issue may come about from it.

i thought about the slavery issue also, though from the opposite perspective. imagine national intelligence agencies, militaries with access to the perfect spies/assasins. same goes for corporations, major drug gangs and terrorist groups. the abilities of those with magic would be too great not to use, take advantage of. and i doubt in most cases that saying no would be accepted.

also factor in that most major religions would not be very accepting of so many doing the devils work.

Well, I look at it this way as well. What was happening when Voldemort was taking over was that he essentially was going to "rule over muggles" and try to strip down the half-bloods to be at the same level as muggles. It really felt like the story as it unveiled itself and we learned more about Voldemort, we saw what a truly evil and ambitious wizard would do if they decided to remove the statute.

Based on that, I would say to a lesser degree that if the statute was removed, that it would be a progressive thing due to muggles just looking to wizards for the answer. Once the desire to innovate or learn kind of goes away, and times goes forward without it, it becomes a dependence, and thus wizards can push their will onto muggles.

Surely muggles relying on wizards for solutions wouldn't be any different to muggles relying on scientists and engineers for solutions? It's not as if most people even know how electricity works, or even how to change a plug. Muggles don't bother engineers for machines, they simply pay for them, and if the resource is scarce, they pay more.

Magic doesn't solve all problems, and some things are better the muggle way. I would much rather travel by car than risk splinching myself or sit on a freezing broomstick trying not to get lost. Telephones and email work faster than owls and with less clearing up. Apparently witches and wizards haven't invented anything to surpass a muggle toilet.

There are some things only magic could do, and witches and wizards could earn money to do them, instead of living in poverty in the wizarding world. I think those magical people would be more likely to break the statute of magical secrecy, after all they need to eat.

ah this is true, however we can generally understand how that works. Generally they are not mystical solutions so the general physics of how machines and electricity works, and such knowledge is passed on to the next generation. My argument would be that over time, if magical solutions were given out, over perhaps multiple generations, the muggles ability to understand and do certain things that were once common knowledge would fade, and we would be left with only magical solutions. While that may appear in substance to be the same situation, in form the art of magic cannot be learned and performed by everyone (as engineering could potentially), but only those gifted with magic.

Well the whole reason that they went into hiding was the Witch Hunt. They are probably still woried that the Muggles wouldn't exactly embrace them. I expect fundumental christian groups and others calling for them to be burned.

What??? They still have that old thing? Excuse me. there's an owl on my window...oh boy.

It seems that witches and wizards have already forgotten how to do things because of their magic - they seem to live with few modern conveniences.

If magic isn't imaginary, then it could be studied in a scientific way, so that the principles behind it could be understood. That could help witches and wizards do better magic. If there are only a few thousand witches and wizards at any one time, there would only be a handful of really smart witches or wizards among them - they couldn't do as much research as several universities full of muggles could.

If magic is real, it means the muggle understanding of the universe is wrong so we need to look again to understand muggle science, let alone magic. The better people understand the universe, the more likely they can do things that look like magic.

If the ability to do magic is genetic, as it appears to be, then it should show up if someone mapped the genome of a wizard. In that case, it might be possible to make a muggle into a witch or wizard with a gene therapy, then there would be no shortage of magic.

that is an interesting theory for sure. Though one could take a very eastern view of magic as the ability to mold the flow of natural energies into meaningful expressions. So here we are thinking about taking our abilities, and very few have the ability to mold said energy. That may explain the wording and proper wand movements, as well as the use of personal will in order to direct and make spells meaningful.

It may be possible through gene therapy and training, perhaps you are right. I suppose I look at this kind of through a different prospective. I know this is a real tangent to take, but consider the old comics (and new movies) the "X-men" where we have said beings with unique abilities due to genetic alterations which give them power beyond what ordinary humans have, and then we look at the two factions of mutants and those with no powers at all. I suppose in that example people would keep their normal problem solutions, however through ostracizing differences between muggles and wizards somthing similar would arise in the world.

I've always thought the Statute of Secrecy was an awful idea. A family like the Weasley's could climb their way out of poverty if they were able to provide services or start a business that muggles could benefit from.

I can't see the Statute of Secrecy ever being revoked, or Muggles finding out.

yes, our technology has advanced, but i'm sure the wizarding world would have advanced as well.

As long as the Obliviators don't choose to go on strike, and the Aurors and Magical Law Enforcement stop dark or meddlesome wizards from revealing the world of witches and wizards to the muggles, i'm pretty sure the muggles will never know.

Ending the statute of secrecy is the single biggest issue for me, in our post Harry Potter world. From a philosophical, economical, and epistemological point of a view, there is no reason for any Ministry or government to continue such behavior. We're talking about the potential to end poverty, to end modern warfare as we know it, to stop the class division injected by the wizard state.

Repeal the statute. Allow wizards to live free.

I can't imagine the muggle and wizarding worlds ever getting on. I mean, come on! Imagine the amount of jealousy on the muggles part. IMO it'd probably turn half of us into Dursleys. There'd be anti-wizard groups, which would probably give rise to more anti-muggle believers and all hell would break loose as far as I can see.


completely agree....not exactly real life but look at x-men!! the mutants were hated out of fear and jealousy....

the statute of secrecy is there for a reason!

completely agree....not exactly real life but look at x-men!! the mutants were hated out of fear and jealousy....

the statute of secrecy is there for a reason!

X-Men was the first thing which came to my mind when I saw this thread. In the beginning I think Muggles and Wizards would live peacefully together and they would help each other to improve our society. However once Muggle begin to comprehend the power of magic, prejudice would begin on both sides due to fear and jealousy. Eventually I see this escalating into a war. The only reason the Witch-Hunts, before the Statute was created, was because Muggles didn't have the knowledge, weapons or science to properly capture, identify and kill wizard. Sadly I see Muggles winning this war, simply due to the fact that the Wizarding Community is so small and they would be overwhelmed by sheer numbers. Also as seen by Mr Weasley's understanding of Muggle technology, Wizard do not comprehend the weaponry and technology Muggle's have developed since the statute was instigated and would most likely under-estimate Muggles.

The muggle world, from the pressure of the very expansion that you describe is one that is likely collapse fairly soon (say next 50 years) due to overexpansion, overuse of resources and it might happen before they discovered.

In that case, how does the magical world reacts as the muggle world becomes a boneyard


I agree, this was a little scary.... the best thing about mankind, we have the ability to change....

One fan fiction I read described the revealing of the British Wizarding world because of a Squib who was mistreated by his pureblood family. I wouldn't be surprised if the Filches and Petunias of the world started a conspiracy to reveal magic to the Muggle world to spite their relatives.

One fan fiction I read described the revealing of the British Wizarding world because of a Squib who was mistreated by his pureblood family. I wouldn't be surprised if the Filches and Petunias of the world started a conspiracy to reveal magic to the Muggle world to spite their relatives.

But Petunia was very careful to make sure that nobody around her found out anything about magic. It seems like she wants to pretend that it doesn't exist because she is jealous. Plus, they must know that if they did try to reveal magic to muggles people would think that they are crazy, and not a lot would believe them.

It's quite an iteresting theory but I don't think people would ever believe a video- it would be too hard especially given the number of special effects we are now capable of.
If a video did come out I think it would be easy for the Ministry to either ignore it completly if enough people were shouting fake OR if it was too realistic they could magic the user to make a second video saying 'HA got you this is how I made it' to throw people off the scent and fake a video showing how it was made.
I think the magical community is far to small to have much impact on the muggle world if you consider that Hogwarts is the only school for the whole of the UK.

Plus, keep in mind that with time turners, the fact that electronics go goofy around magic, and the fact that muggles don't notice anything in the first place... I think the magical world is pretty safe.

I would say over time, the Statute would crumble a bit. Given the technology we have today, the wizarding world would not last in total secrecy.
Just a note, Youtube uploads about 48 hours daily to its site. Spread out, that is a lot of videos. Not to mention blog posts. Electronics would be able to capture magic, and it is only a matter of time before people see the spell Expecto Patronum a hundred times and realize it isn't just special effects.

However, this is important to note too: Muggles in the Harry Potter world do not seem to be like us. I always felt all the people JK wrote about that were muggles just seemed a tad...off. Maybe dumber than us.

So it is a thought that in her world, things would be different. Think of it this way. This world has magic, and even more so, magical beasts. I doubt dragons were always hidden from sight. Yet, how much do we know about history of JK's world? Not a whole lot. What was WWII like? Was there even a WWII?

Just, points to ponder.

How do we know that we haven't all sighted a witch or wizard!!

If they can modify memories then surely they would keep it a secret for as long as possible, I think I remember Hagrid saying in 'Philosphers Stone' hat if the muggles knew of the wizarding world's existence then they would want all of their everyday problems solving with magic.
This could cause fights and lots of jealousy....

I'm not sure how I would react though, I may believe it but I may also think that I'm just being stupid and I've read too much Harry Potter..... not sure...?

=]

I don't think the Statute of Secrecy could every be fully broken, and if there were to be an 'incident' the worst that would happen would be that a few Muggles suspect something along the lines of 'Witchcraft'. It would probably be impossible for the whole secret to be revealed without the consent of many Witches and Wizards.