Can the films help us determine what's important for future books?

I was thinking today about how much they take out of the movies. Like stuff that isn't seriously important, like in the first movie, for example. Compared to the book, there are any things taken out from the platform nine and three quarters one. Like how Harry met Fred and george when he helped him with his trunk (see book 1, chapter: The Journey from Platform 9 and 3/4) and how they introduce themselves and realise its him, then go out to tell thier mother and the other Weasley's.

From this I thought, those things must not be important. And like all movies that belong to Sequels, you must ( if you're a proper director/ editor etc.) you Simply CAN'T take out the important stuff ( like clues or important story line) and just simply pop it up in the middle fo another movie or at the end of the movie.

Like Fawks for example. They couldn't just take him out of the scene in the second movie where Harry sees him burn up and thinks he did it or something, and then just let him pop up as "Dumbledre's bird" in the climax where he helps harry in the Chamber and out of it. Now, could they? Nope. I don't think so at all. And also, they can't take out the whole thing in Olivanders where Mr. Oliviander himself says that he and Voldie share " brother" wands, and then in the 4th movie, sddenly pop that little fact in when thier wands connect in Priori Incantatum.

So, my pondering leads me to ask your opinions. Do you think that the movies can help us to sift through the ideas that we need and needn't know for the coming books, owing and of coarse taking into consideration the examples that I gave?

or should we just stay simple and wait fro the coming books before speculating things?

Well, in the very beginning of the first movie, when Mcgonnagal and Dumbeldore are talking, Hagrid doesnt mention that Sirius Black lent him the motorcycle, which I feel is important.

Yeah, I think so too, but when I saw that I assumed they;d mention that one in the Leaky cauldron episode where harry hides under the table cuz he snuck in. I was just re-readingthe third book yesterday and I was like " Oh yeah, they still have another chance to slip that one in without messing up the Hp dialogue completely!"

I dont understand why they left out the whole potion segment in the first movie. It sort of showed Hermione's true colors. Same thing with the devils snare. Why'd they change that outcome?

oh yeah at the end? OMG I was sooo incredible upset at they left that part out, I luved it!

and yeah, i wish they hadn't messed up the stuff with the devils snare. I liked when Ron asked her is she was a witch or not....quite cute. There's tonz of stuff in the second book too, tho I can't put my finger on em...i haven't seen the second movie for a while. I like the second book least of all, so I guess that's why.

* can't wait till POA comes out*

I REALLY like the movies, but it does annoy me sooo much that they sometimes change things in them, like the ending to the second movie was really different to the books. Another thing was the time in the second movie, when Ron and Harry were being chased by the spiders and all of a sudden the car rescues them. In the books, you realise beforehand that the car is in the forest, so its a bit less stupid, if you know what I mean.

But yeah, I do think that perhaps the parts that are in the films could help us see what's really important at the ends, but the same is true for the books. JKR never just throws stuff in, eg. Animagi are mentioned casually in the middle of the third book. The same will be true for the movies.

They could have at least done things accurate. Wasnt the Basilisk supposed to be red?

No, the basilik is green.
Book Two, chapter 17, The Heir of Slytherin
"The enormous serpent, bright, poisonous green, thick as an oak trunk..."

Also in ch. 16 the snake skin that was shedded is described as poisonous green.

CoS is my least favorite also. I started to watch the movie again after reading OoP, but haven't finished. So far though, nothing has popped out at me.

yeah, i wasn't too pleased with what the basilisk looked like either and I've only seen the movie once outside of the theaters. I'm really not fond of it at all, and I;ve read CoS least of all the books. I do think, however that it has a lot of things init that are crucial to the plot.

Oh it was green? Okay.

At least COS teaches a lesson on racism (did I spell that right?).

Hey I like this thread.

The potions wasn't left out entirely it was severely edited.
Ever since listening to the Rowling/Kloves interview
I've been looking at the films with a slightly different POV.
Example -- Harry's eye colour. There's been a lot of moaning on the net about Radcliffe's eyes being blue not green and a lot of theories about the signifigance of the colour green. But since Rowling didn't indicate that Harry's eyes "had" to be green
maybe it doesn't play as big a part in the books as some might think.
And I have wondered if the toning down of Snape is a bit of an indication of what side he's on and where he's going to wind up. That should be clearer after POA.

Interesting . . . although personally, I think nothing is more important than the color green. :)

I remember an interview (I think it was fairly recent - maybe on the CoS DVD?) with JKR in which she said that CoS (the book) was very important to the overall plot, and that she knew the filmmakers had had a time of it trying to fit in everything that would be important in the future without drawing attention to the fact that these things were important. I guess she meant stuff like the Weasley's car which will undoubtably show up again in book 6 or 7. Sooo yeah, I think the movies hold clues to important events in future.

I try not to think of the movies and the books as exactly the same things. I like the movies, I guess, but not nearly as much as I like the books. When I'm trying to figure out what might be important, I definately look to the books instead of the movies.

Books have always been changed when they're made into movies. Look at LOTR as an example that's hapening right now (cough cough Arwen cough cough).

Just don't worry about it! Look at the movies as just nice extras that come with the books.

I don't like the movies very much at all, and I am still debating whether or not to see the third one. Admittedly, I did recently watch CoS, but that was only because I needed an Alan Rickman fix, and that was the only thing on Pay Per View that he was in :) I really try not to let the movie interfere with my perceptions of the book, especially because I feel they have left out some very important things.
Someone mentioned the "toning down" of Snape in the CoS movie; that's mainly because Snape has a very minor role in the book (which doesn't do much for my cravings). They actually included most of the Snape scenes.
Oh, and I agree with aggiemuggle. What was with Arwen?!?

The potions wasn't left out entirely it was severely edited.
Ever since listening to the Rowling/Kloves interview
I've been looking at the films with a slightly different POV.
Example -- Harry's eye colour. There's been a lot of moaning on the net about Radcliffe's eyes being blue not green and a lot of theories about the signifigance of the colour green. But since Rowling didn't indicate that Harry's eyes "had" to be green
maybe it doesn't play as big a part in the books as some might think.
And I have wondered if the toning down of Snape is a bit of an indication of what side he's on and where he's going to wind up. That should be clearer after POA.


yeah, i aggree. But it leaves me to wonder, how they are going to tone down Snape wanting to turn Sirius in at the end of POA, because he was going to get An Order of merlin is he did, and he didn't end up doing so.There's so much malice in him at the end in the Shreiking Shack. I'm curious to see how that all turns out.

Just don't worry about it! Look at the movies as just nice extras that come with the books.


no one's worried. :rolleyes:

Yeah. The whole Arwen thing was blown out of proportion. They embellished it to the point of gross, just cuz she's whats-his-name's daughter.

I still think they shouldnt have had hermione say voldemort so early . . . but i guess i'll have to get over that eventually right?

Elrond or elron i dont remember.

His daughter.

Elrond :)
I think they did that because a)they needed more romance, and b)they needed more female characters.
Anyway, I am completely off-topic, so yeah, HP movies, bad.

Yay!

Actually I never read those books but my dads told me the entire story since i was a kid hes obsessed.

Anyway . . . yeah CoS was better than the first one though i think. . .

Elrond :)
I think they did that because a)they needed more romance, and b)they needed more female characters.
Anyway, I am completely off-topic, so yeah, HP movies, bad.

LOL>..I meant to say, tho, Liv Tyler is Steve Tyler's daughter....lol * rols on the floor laughing* I'm sorry I didn't explain that properly...I'm so dumb.

(last one off the subject)
Was Arwen even in the first book?

Okay shutting up back on subject now.

Fred and George look blond . . . sometimes.

that was the best i could do.

lol, yes, indeed they do. And no, Arwen wasn't in the first.

Back to fred and george, yeah. I think the best cast filling for the ho movies were the weasley's but i hate to admit I thought they'd do a better job at picking a ron *shrugs* Rupert's ok, tho.

I was really disappointed with the end of COS..I must admit i don't care much for the book cos either, but the ending of the film was much worse, it was just so stagnent and what was with the whole hagrid thing at the end? :rolleyes:

I think we can look to the films to a certain extent for clues as the the activitie sin books 6 and 7, but not overly so- they are still films and certain things are just in there for the films sake.

I do like the films though - its kind of like having an little alternate hp world to visit....book 1 and film one are so different after all that i feltlike i was reading a completely different book when i re-read ps this week^-^;

I also, just re-read ps and I was also quite surprised by how different it was in comparison.

By now, tho, I'll admit that I have seen PS so many ties that O'm rather fond of it now. CoS , however, I will never quite like. I was throughly disappointed by the appearance of Dobby.....he looked soo different in my mnds eye. But anyway....I do hope that PoA is an improvement. I heard that there's a new director, so maybe it'll be different.

There was an interview with JK Rowling and someone else on the extra's DVD for one of the movies. In the interview it is brought up that the director and writers check with JKR about everything. The way the interview presents it is the movie people don't know what is going to happen either, but they do get to find out what is important when she tells them--no, that has to stay in. Just the fact that the movie people work with JKR is interesting in itself, very often writers are not welcome in association with the film.

As for the car, I don't know that it will necessarily be important in the last two books though it would be nice. The car was needed for Ron and Harry to escape the spiders, so it served its purpose.

In another thread it was pointed out that the Bones girl is the only character that continues to be shown in the movies that hasn't really taken a role in the books bigger than a mention. I imagine she might play a part in one of the last books.

There was an interview with JK Rowling and someone else on the extra's DVD for one of the movies. In the interview it is brought up that the director and writers check with JKR about everything. The way the interview presents it is the movie people don't know what is going to happen either, but they do get to find out what is important when she tells them--no, that has to stay in. Just the fact that the movie people work with JKR is interesting in itself, very often writers are not welcome in association with the film.

As for the car, I don't know that it will necessarily be important in the last two books though it would be nice. The car was needed for Ron and Harry to escape the spiders, so it served its purpose.

In another thread it was pointed out that the Bones girl is the only character that continues to be shown in the movies that hasn't really taken a role in the books bigger than a mention. I imagine she might play a part in one of the last books.


:welcome: I noticed that you're new. I like all your points and completely agree.

I like your style of writing when you answer.Say....you wouldn't by any chance be a teacher, would you? Just my english teacher would havesaid the same stuff.

Anyway, hope to see you aroundthe boards.

Actually, I really love Rupert Grint in the role of Ron. He's the only of the three kids I like (Dan needs to mess up his hair and Emma is way too pretty; they both need acting lessons). He doesn't really look like Ron to me, but he is really good.

Sorry about the Arwen thing!

i think(actually im pretty sure) the hand of glory will be important,because of the movie.JKR says what's important.so if the malfoy sequence was deleted,there's no point for harry to go to knockturn alley if there's not sth else.in both book and movie the hand of glory attracts attention(draco wanted to buy it and in the movie it grabbed harry's hand),so i think that harry doesnt go to knockturn alley to meet lucius malfoy,but to see the hand of glory..

i liked emma in the first film,but not anymore.and the new set pictures she is even worse.and dan is no Harry to me.rupert doesn't look like the ron in my head but who cares?i like him.i wonder why they aren't wearing robes in the movies...hmmm
the other thing i dont like is that the 'old generation' is too old.snape and the others are supposed to be in his middle thirties

yeah. Rupert does a better acting job than the other too. And the whole thing with Dans hair, that was my very first complaint when the first movie began in the theaters...my friends were laughing at me.... I'm such a dork:(

Don't worry about the Arwen thing. I love LOTR just as much as I do HP.

The only thing I do like about Emma is she's a real prat in the beginning. That's prolly the only thing she does so well.

She was part of this interview for POA and she said something about all those " lovely, lovely hormones" She's way too big for her shoes. I had no ******* clue what hormones were when I was ...how old is she now? 12? lol...maybe I'm wrong, I dunno.

i think(actually im pretty sure) the hand of glory will be important,because of the movie.JKR says what's important.so if the malfoy sequence was deleted,there's no point for harry to go to knockturn alley if there's not sth else.in both book and movie the hand of glory attracts attention(draco wanted to buy it and in the movie it grabbed harry's hand),so i think that harry doesnt go to knockturn alley to meet lucius malfoy,but to see the hand of glory..

i liked emma in the first film,but not anymore.and the new set pictures she is even worse.and dan is no Harry to me.rupert doesn't look like the ron in my head but who cares?i like him.i wonder why they aren't wearing robes in the movies...hmmm
the other thing i dont like is that the 'old generation' is too old.snape and the others are supposed to be in his middle thirties


I aggree about the whole no robes thingy. They go on about muggle clothng liek nothing else int he book and they mostly wear muggle clothing in the movies aside fromt hier robes for classes.


I do like thier uniforms very much so:d

something that's bugged me from the movies about the muggle clothes (completely off topic so sorry)
harry's supposed to have dudley's old clothes, which are way too big. i think that his clothes are too big in the beginning of ps, but when he wears muggle clothes at hogwarts (like when harry and wood practice quidditch), his clothes fit! what's up with that?

i suppose they want us to assume that he buys some in diagon alley...who knows. Film makers, just don't get it, do they? * rolls eyes* I was most looking forward to the get-ups that I assumed that they'd have em wearing, but I was disappointed. Oh well. What to do?

i think that the red jumper he wears in both movies is made by molly.she does these things doesn't she? :D :D

yeah. I luv Molly and her jumpers:D but everyone's ditched the robes in movie three. the director seems to think it'd be better if they kept themselves as the
bursting with those "lovely, lovely hormones" int he words of Emma .


I dunno.These are strange days.


Has anyone come across any interviews from the third movie yet?

309 days, everybody!( counting down.com)

Check out the pics I found...

:upset: The muggle clothes make me cry!

I wouldn't mind it so much if they were just sitting in the common room in regular clothes, but they look like their going to class that way!
I'll admit I don't picture the characters in robes all the time (this is probably due to the fact that I go to public school and have never in my life worn a uniform), but this is going way overboard.

wait a second...so there wont be ANY hogwart srobes AT ALL? not even in class?? please tell me it wont be THAT severe!

Attachment: 0,,2003350141,00.jpg (22043 bytes, 2 views)

hahahahehehehohohoheha! that third pic kicks butt! draco finally getting what's coming to him! (that sexy git!)

lol, yeah, he does look a lot better looking in this one, doesn't he?

I don't think they're getting rid of therobes altogether- i just think they are outside of classes.

i think the first is when they are going to hogsmeade...

I rented the CoS dvd last week and I couldn't get disk 2 to play. GRRR. I want to see deleted scenes. My panasonic dvd player couldn't play it and my G3 couldn't either. Is there some kind of evil PC programing on the dvd?

Anyway, the most important scene they kept in the first movie, which they could have easily cut, was Neville standing up to the trio. When they cut him out of the forbidden forest, I thought for sure he wouldn't be in the common room trying to stop the trio. But he has to be.

The strangest thing in the CoS movie to me is when Hermione cast the Repairo spell in Diagon Alley and doesn't get pelted with owls about practicing underage wizardry.

Anyway, I enjoyed both movies in the theater, but I don't think they stand up to repeated re-watching. And part of the key to enjoying them was not having read the books recently (or more than once at that point.)

The strangest thing in the CoS movie to me is when Hermione cast the Repairo spell in Diagon Alley and doesn't get pelted with owls about practicing underage wizardry.


She did?*is confused* I must have missed it.

heck, who knows. I think she does the spell in both movies, and I guess its in a different place.

I always wondered how it worked with the underage magic what's-it-called....I mean, it seems that when they're on the train, its all ok to do it.I dunno, but the movies do, hwoever good or bad they are, have holes in them that tamper with the books.* shurgs*

i know the movies hold clues to the coming books/movies because JK works with the writer to make sure everything that is important stays in the movies...there is an interview on the CoS DVD with JK and the writer

In the book, Mr Weasley repaired Harry's glasses. I think people decided somewhere else that underage magic would be hard to detect in a place full of wizards - it's only really important if Muggles might notice. And it's mentioned a few times that magic is allowed on the train.

thats a good theory, that the deleted scenes can help us out! i have been rereading the series, and actually i think books3 and especially 4 could help us figure out the next couple of books...book 4 has a lot of hints to book 5, so maybe if we really check out book 5, we'll find hints to book 6!!

My mother was reading Philosopher's Stone to my little brother when she came across this tasty plot point - left out in the movies:

In the chapter where Harry encounters Voldemort in the Forest, he is saved by Firenze. Harry says, "That thing would've killed me if you hadn't come," or something like that. Bane arrives and gets annoyed, basically saying that Firenze shouldn't have interfered [with Fate].

That means that, technically, Voldemort should've killed Harry there and then. Firenze, reading this in the stars and presumably realising that Harry and Voldy are locked in a kill-or-be-killed relationship (seen in OotP), rescued Harry so the boy could have a chance to be a saviour.

Think about it.

To express an opinion, as well as a point:

In the movies, I hated:
1. The lack of robes. I wanted to see them on the screen so they would appear on the shelves.
2. The lack of Percy's glasses. How difficult would it have been to give him some?
3. Daniel Radcliffe's hair and eyes. Maybe it's not important to the plot, but it's important to ME!
4. How they made Seamus Finnigan act stupid. It looks like they were putting him down for no reason. I don't remember him blowing stuff up in the books.
5. Changing beloved dialogue, like at the beginning of PS. McGonagall pauses before the word "Muggles" to emphasize it. She's a witch! She should be comfortable with the word!
6. No Quidditch stadium. Just these weird towers.
7. Why is Peeves gone? He would have been really great in the 5th movie.
8. Erm - flying Quirrell at the end of PS? If they could all do that, why do they need brooms?
9. Potions and troll? Where are you?
10. Harry's history: why'd they spread it out between the hut and Diagon Alley?
11. The end of CoS, with the hiding in pipes from the Basilisk. It's meant to be one big hall, so why're there pools and pipes?

It sounds like I hated everything, but I didn't. I was just severely disappointed and will be writing a strongly worded letter if PoA is messed up. It's my favourite book.

BTW, I don't see why they didn't just turn the book into script form. That way, they would please the fans and the film buffs. If that script was turned into a book, and there was no original, I don't think I'd like Harry Potter. *Unthinkable idea*

:steps in: I haven't been following the thread, but I have a quick comment before I go.

I think one of the most important aspects about the books is the emphasis (spelling?) on how evil Voldie really is...and in the movies it just didn't come across that he was half as evil as he is written in the books. So..maybe in the general aspect, the movies are like an outline of the book, but you miss a LOT of things that ARE important when you only see the movies. I don't think many people who haven't read the books grasp all the concepts that the readers do.

:looks up: Laura, many of those things bothered me as well. A lot. Another one to add--SERIOUS lack of Fred and George. I will be terribly disappointed in PoA no matter what. It's my fave too...and their going to butcher it!

To express an opinion, as well as a point:

In the movies, I hated:
1. The lack of robes. I wanted to see them on the screen so they would appear on the shelves.
2. The lack of Percy's glasses. How difficult would it have been to give him some?
3. Daniel Radcliffe's hair and eyes. Maybe it's not important to the plot, but it's important to ME!
4. How they made Seamus Finnigan act stupid. It looks like they were putting him down for no reason. I don't remember him blowing stuff up in the books.
5. Changing beloved dialogue, like at the beginning of PS. McGonagall pauses before the word "Muggles" to emphasize it. She's a witch! She should be comfortable with the word!
6. No Quidditch stadium. Just these weird towers.
7. Why is Peeves gone? He would have been really great in the 5th movie.
8. Erm - flying Quirrell at the end of PS? If they could all do that, why do they need brooms?
9. Potions and troll? Where are you?
10. Harry's history: why'd they spread it out between the hut and Diagon Alley?
11. The end of CoS, with the hiding in pipes from the Basilisk. It's meant to be one big hall, so why're there pools and pipes?

It sounds like I hated everything, but I didn't. I was just severely disappointed and will be writing a strongly worded letter if PoA is messed up. It's my favourite book.

BTW, I don't see why they didn't just turn the book into script form. That way, they would please the fans and the film buffs. If that script was turned into a book, and there was no original, I don't think I'd like Harry Potter. *Unthinkable idea*


I never thought I'd ever meet anybody who cared as much about those parts as I do. Yopu've hit them all right on the head, and I completely aggree with you./ * shakes your hand* You are officially the coolest person I have met on the CoS boards.

You have no idea how much I wanted the robes in the movie, as well as them on the shelves. It would have been awesome.Percy in general to me is a terrible disapointment. He's too nice, has no glasses and isn't the pompous jerk that we all know ( and yeah, love). I looked forward to loathing him in the movies..he's much too nice.Dan's hair is too neat,and the eyes are a memory of Lilly...gosh, film making is weird.They made Seanmus so much bigger than I could deal with, and tones down on Percy? How stupid is that!? Seamus is nothing compared to the Character that Percy is, and I didn't approve of it at all. He's not dumb. The adding of that in was pointless.Yeah. Major dialoge problems. In my memory, Chirs colusbus said he had a say in how much of the dialogue was changed, and I certainly don't remember such a poor job in his other movies.
Personally, CoS is my least fave. I didn't like very much of it except the beginning, in which we got to see Florish and Blotts.(And about being in Diagon Alley...Hermione is way too pretty when she meets Harry and D.Alley after Hagrid rescues Harry)
I like Lucious Malfoy and he and Draco make a **** good team. That's all I liked, I suppose. OH YEAH....also seeing the Burrow.

The worst by far in the movies is the lack of Fred and George. I hate it. I love them beyond anything, and I really wish they'd put them in more. * cries*

POA better be an improvement.

it doesn't matter what they do, the movies will never be able to live up to the books for one reason, the imagination doesn't have price restrictions

Hmm im not sure the edited bits out bits are not important because i saw the movie in the cinemas and then watch the DVD and in the dvd they have cut parts out (that were shown in the cinemas) and put them in the deleted scenes section. So i don't know how reliable the movies are....

If the movies do give teeny "septology" hints about the books, I think PoA will be where we see the most important ones. The introduction of so many new characters, [hopefully] the glimpses into their and Harry's past... the movie-makers have a great chance to give us a lot of great clues. However, so far all I can see is how much they've cut or otherwise butchered the story line, so I refuse to get my hopes up that the PoA movie is going to provide some huge revelation that I've been overlooking thus far. :sigh:

I posted this in another thread somewhere, but the end of CoS does give a huge clue about GoF. When Malfoy Sr is confronting Dumbledore and Harry in DD's office, they deliberately play the light so as to cast odd shadows across his (that is to say, Malfoy's) face. The shadows obscure everything but his eyes, which are unnaturally bright. It's basically the mask of a Death Eater. Watch it - you'll probably see what I mean, even if you disagree. ;)

Mander and Laura,
you guys are completely right. The movies really bugged me...especially the Fred and George part, or lack of :P
I just hope they brush up for PoA. Gary Oldman will be great, but have you seen that pic of Lupin? He looks totally wrong for the part.

i hate that david thewlis.he is so not lupin.gary oldman looks fine.
fred and george must be in poa(giving the map) but only-movie people will not understand it,because they dont know the twins are troublemakers....

exactly! they barely do fred and george justice. I'm saddened to hear that the dude playing lupin doesn't fit the prt well. I haven't actually seen any pictures...anybody esle have any or any links I could see?

They do butcher a lot of the concepts from the movie that only readers can catch. I understand now, why ppl who haven't read the books thinkt hat HP is childish, and boring. They just don't get a grasp of the more important/interesting plotlines.

They simply can't butcher out the Maurauders map. Its much too important for Harry sneaking off into Hogsmeade and the ending, during which Lupin sees Pettigrew and all.....not to mention Moody taking the map from Happy ( really, I mean Crouch) so that he wouldn't see his true idenbtity...its much too important. And there's no way that Harry can just find the map. Fred and George are legend, they are!

Besides, how are only movie seers going to be able to grasp the Maurauders otherwise?

in a recent interview Jo has stated the the POA has got clues reguarding the future of book 6+7 this thread is for discussing the clues displayed in the movie so this is not for discussing your own theories separated from the third film.

so ideas must have links to the third film clues

Thread open

ps:if the moderators feel this could be dicussed in another already active thread feel free to close this one..

I hadn't heard about that.
Could you post Rowling's quote? That certaintly would be interesting but why is she giving Kloves more hints?
It'll be very subtle I'm sure since it can't go against continuity.

here is the quote

"I really got goose bumps when I saw a couple of those things, and I thought, people are going to look back on the film and think that those were put in deliberately as clues," Rowling says in an interview released by Warner Bros., which is distributing the movie.

In a recent interview with USA Today, JK Rowling has stated that several new clues to books 6 and 7 are contained in Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban:

"I really got goose bumps when I saw a couple of those things, and I thought, people are going to look back on the film and think that those were put in deliberately as clues," Rowling says in an interview released by Warner Bros., which is distributing the movie.

Cuaron, for his part, says "in a way, it was intuition, but everything is so emotionally eloquent, the book gives you all the hints."

http://www.usatoday.com/life/movies/news/2004-05-27-potter-movie-book_x.htm

This is quoted on the main mugglenet page, which links to a USA today article.

Personally I think it mainly refers to the whole Ron and Hermione deal. On the interview on the CoS DVD, JKR said that the movies hint at relationships between the characters long before the books do. Ron and Hermione have been practically all over each other, at least in the commercials. LOL

Another thing, important from the DVD, is that there ARE some people on the crew (not the actors, LOL) who have a basic idea as to where the whole story is going, and they do ask JKR what's important to toss or keep for the sake of future movies. That's why you should never disregard the movies. I personally think the MOST important clues are there.

Stuff that I'm guessing will turn up in the movie:

1. Ron and Harry's Divination gags: Harry does not yet work for the ministry, now does he? I found it interesting in OotP when McGonagall swore to make Harry an Auror if it was the last thing she did. Uh oh...

2. Time turner: Some are convinced that the "deliberate error" in Chamber of Secrets means something significant. Time is hinted at in both PoA and OotP.

Some are convinced that the "deliberate error" in Chamber of Secrets means something significant.

can you tell more about this? i never heard of this before

i'm interested in this time turner ''deliberate error'' thing.

The "intentional error" and what some say is the strongest evidence of some kind of time twisting going in is the statement in the Chamber of Secrets that Voldemort is the last remaining ANCESTOR of Salalzar Slytherin. Some editions of the books have this "error" corrected, but other later editions have the word "ancestor" put back in. JKR herself suggested that the word ancestor might be used intentionally in an online chat session.

You can check out the thread on that here:
http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=229&highlight=ancestor

I think that this thread will get a lot more debate after the movie is out, June 4. But I think there might be something in or about the shrieking shack scene that will play out in future books. That is where my guess is without the benefit of having seen the movie.

I agree I think the main one is the Ron/Hermione relationship as hinted at in the JKR interview on the CoS DVD, the holding hands in PoA and the cut hugs mentioned my Rupert Grint from PoA.

Will have to wait till Tuesday to see the film and work out other clues

This is quoted on the main mugglenet page, which links to a USA today article.

Personally I think it mainly refers to the whole Ron and Hermione deal. On the interview on the CoS DVD, JKR said that the movies hint at relationships between the characters long before the books do. Ron and Hermione have been practically all over each other, at least in the commercials. LOL
Sorry, but certainly those does not qualify at all as "inadverted hints", JKR seemed to be talking about something subtler. Moreover, the movie is pretty ambiguous in the shipping side, with all those scenes of H/Hr protecting each other, no matter the HR/r aspect has been more publicized. But that doesn't mean a thing. In the past the theory of Hagrid dying in OotP was very popular in the media, and it turned to be wrong. In one recent interview (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=598&ncid=790&e=3&u=/nm/20040527/film_nm/arts_potter_dc) the actors predicted R/Hr, Harry dying at the end and Ron becoming evil the three things with equal eloquence, so I doubt their opinion is very worthy.


Another thing, important from the DVD, is that there ARE some people on the crew (not the actors, LOL) who have a basic idea as to where the whole story is going, and they do ask JKR what's important to toss or keep for the sake of future movies. That's why you should never disregard the movies. I personally think the MOST important clues are there.
I believe JKR gave them a background about their characters, but they do not know a thing about the future. At least that was what Robbie Coltrane said about his character Hagrid in an interview: he knows about Hagrid's past but not about his future.


Stuff that I'm guessing will turn up in the movie:

1. Ron and Harry's Divination gags: Harry does not yet work for the ministry, now does he? I found it interesting in OotP when McGonagall swore to make Harry an Auror if it was the last thing she did. Uh oh...
But this is from the books, not movies alone. Most of Harry and Ron predictions in divination (from the books) already became true. Plus, JKR read the "Career Advise" chapter of OotP in Royal Albert Hall, saying it was important for future books. So I believe Harry may study indeed to be an auror (so someday he may work for the MoM).


2. Time turner: Some are convinced that the "deliberate error" in Chamber of Secrets means something significant. Time is hinted at in both PoA and OotP.I am pretty lost here. What "deliberate error" are you talking about? :huh:
ETA:
What are you thinking here? That Salazar Slytherin is the son/great-son/whatever of time-turned Voldemort?? Where is that chat where JKR hinted that? I believe JKR said exactly the opposite somewhere.

See you,
:cool:
esicardi

Yeep. Well, personally I think this is the best thread on the subject of the "ancestor" line:

http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=16927

The reason I'm guessing that specific scene in PoA BTW, is because they DO have the divination class with the tea leaves, and if they do, it'd be pretty hard to leave those lines out. We'll know for sure once it comes out.

And in all complete honesty, I doubt JKR would be nervous about it if it were something subtle. LOL

And in all complete honesty, I doubt JKR would be nervous about it if it were something subtle. LOLShe was talking about something the fans will notice looking back in the 3rd movie, after reading books 6 & 7, some "inadvertely inserted clues", that may seem "deliberate" after knowing what happens in books 6&7. So indeed JKR was talking about something subtle here.
Look at the interview (bold mine):
Harry Potter author J.K. Rowling says that Alfonso Cuaron, who directed The Prisoner of Azkaban, which opens next Friday, inadvertently foreshadowed events that will happen in books six and seven, which she has yet to complete. The last book published was the fifth book in the series, Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix. The first two movies based on the Potter books were blockbusters."I really got goose bumps when I saw a couple of those things, and I thought, people are going to look back on the film and think that those were put in deliberately as clues," Rowling says in an interview released by Warner Bros., which is distributing the movie.
Notice:
a) JKR is talking about clues inadvertely inserted. Certainly this could not be the highly publicized R/Hr added details. (Moreover when there are tons of H/Hr not-so-publicized details)
b) People would notice those clues, looking back at the movie, ie: after reading books 6 &7
c) Isn't a little paranoid to asumme she was refering to shipping?

See you,
:cool:
esicardi

Quote:
Another thing, important from the DVD, is that there ARE some people on the crew (not the actors, LOL) who have a basic idea as to where the whole story is going, and they do ask JKR what's important to toss or keep for the sake of future movies. That's why you should never disregard the movies. I personally think the MOST important clues are there.


I believe JKR gave them a background about their characters, but they do not know a thing about the future. At least that was what Robbie Coltrane said about his character Hagrid in an interview: he knows about Hagrid's past but not about his future.

esicardi, please note that the original post stated that JKR may have given background and clues to the CREW not the CAST.

She was talking about something the fans will notice looking back in the 3rd movie, after reading books 6 & 7, some "inadvertely inserted clues", that may seem "deliberate" after knowing what happens in books 6&7. So indeed JKR was talking about something subtle here.
Look at the interview (bold mine):
Notice:
a) JKR is talking about clues inadvertely inserted. Certainly this could not be the highly publicized R/Hr added details. (Moreover when there are tons of H/Hr not-so-publicized details)
b) People would notice those clues, looking back at the movie, ie: after reading books 6 &7
c) Isn't a little paranoid to asumme she was refering to shipping?

See you,
:cool:
esicardi

Right on esicardi! operative word "inadvertely" meaning (I think) Cuaron didn't insert this clues on purpose. R/Hr seems very forced IMO! No very subtle ;)

I haven't seen the movie, but I wonder if these clues refer to the scene when Lupin talks to Harry about his parents. He says something like "you are more like them than you know". What's up with that?

Another thing I was thinking is that she said Cuaron inserted the clues, maybe Cuaron inserted somethings that were not in the script? Like in some scenes, some subtle gestures or reactions from characters? Please, someone who has seen the movie, do you remember anything unusual?

Or maybe she is just saying that so we go see the movie more than once! :rotfl:

Quote:
Another thing, important from the DVD, is that there ARE some people on the crew (not the actors, LOL) who have a basic idea as to where the whole story is going, and they do ask JKR what's important to toss or keep for the sake of future movies. That's why you should never disregard the movies. I personally think the MOST important clues are there.


I believe JKR gave them a background about their characters, but they do not know a thing about the future. At least that was what Robbie Coltrane said about his character Hagrid in an interview: he knows about Hagrid's past but not about his future.

esicardi, please note that the original post stated that JKR may have given background and clues to the CREW not the CAST.Sorry, my mistake. Anyway, in CoS DVD Kloves (who according JKR is the one she has told the most about the future books) expressed frustration about JKR not giving him much clues, so I don't think crew know much either.

See you,
:cool:
esicardi

ETA: Thanks for your support, Mami. :)
I agree that everything could just be a publicity trick to engage the audience to see the movie after all. LOL :rotfl:

Cuaron, for his part, says "in a way, it was intuition, but everything is so emotionally eloquent, the book gives you all the hints."
I find this to be quite a lovely statement by the director. It gives me hope that of the millions of things discussed in these forums, someone might have similar intuitions as him and have the future of HP nailed. Oh wait..lovely or horrifying? Do you think it's possible that everything has been figured out and 6 & 7 are going to seem trite and predictible now? I am in no way suggesting the theories stop and I know I can stop reading this at any time, but if Jo can say the director was intuitive and inadvertently foreshadowed events in the film, what does that say about the element of surprise?

i mentioned this in another thread when i brought up the clips of the movies on mugglenet. One of the clips is lupin and he's talkinga bout lily, did anyone else get the impression he had feelings for her just b/c the way he spoke about her. idk... thoughts anyone?

So just now on Newsround, Alfonso Cuaron said that he wanted to put a graveyard scene at Hogwarts, but JK told him not to because it plays an important part in book 6 or 7.
I believe this plays into the ghosts being a major force in the upcoming books (war?) and perhaps the proximity to the physical bodies is needed. I'm thinking of Voldemort's grave in GOF.

I haven't seen the movie, but I wonder if these clues refer to the scene when Lupin talks to Harry about his parents. He says something like "you are more like them than you know". What's up with that?
When i saw that clip for the first time, I as well had the same reaction. I dont remember that in the books, so that may be one of the 'clues' JKR was suggesting. Even before that line ever was surfaced, i had a feeling we would be learning more about Lily and James in book 6.

Originally posted by Esicardi:
a) JKR is talking about clues inadvertely inserted. Certainly this could not be the highly publicized R/Hr added details. (Moreover when there are tons of H/Hr not-so-publicized details)
Exactly!I was thinking that same thing, but i didnt know how to say it! :blush:

I think what JKR is talking about here is the scen where Lupin talks to harry about his Mom. This whole speech is not in the book at all. It shows that Lupin was very close to Lily. Romantic or just close friends, it could be taken either way. Lily was someone very special to Lupin though. I think that might be what JKR was talking about just because it is something not at all in the book. As far as it being the Ron/Hermione thing. I don't think seeing that foreshadowed is something that would give JKR goosebumps. Its already been hinted at before in the movies.

But, even though we may have somethings figured out, Jo has said that there is something central to the whole story that no one has figured out, but a few people have skirted. Now, I don't think that she has read each and every one of the millions of posts and theories out there, but I still think that she's pretty much right on with that one. There has to be a common thread that ties everything together and wraps it all up into one nice little package. I'm sure that when we read books 6 &7, we are all going to log on to CoS and smack our selves in the head and say "DUH...how could we miss that...." I'm really interested to see the movie and try to figure out which things are clues. Maybe I'll watch the movie and then go through the books and read only the parts that were included in the movie.
Until then, coming up with wacky theories is fun

Sorry, I deleted my post. But fiftycents has a quote from it.

If there is a graveyard, shouldn't the students know about it?
I don't think Harry's grandparents are alive, otherwise why was he brought to the Dursley and not his mother's mother. If that makes any sense.

Perhaps wizard folk aren't allowed to be buried with muggles.

Just remember, the movies are adaptations of the books. The books are the real story, not the movies. It frusturates me to no end to see how many people are taking the movies as cannon more over the books. That and the fact that Draco is so popular. JK has even said it, Tom Felton is not Draco!!!" Haha, he is suppose ot be a down right nasty individual. I am hoping Draco will show just how much like his Father he is in Books 6 and 7.

I heard or read somewhere that there is a scene from the Gryffindor tower in which Harry, Ron and the others are eating candy and transforming into different animals and things! I can't remember where I read that - maybe in an interview or during the showing of the first movie, when the trio were talking about Azkaban.

Another little clue, which I saw a few weeks ago, is the picture of Snape in front of the projector screen and there is an Egyptian picture on the wall. We talked about this on the "Egyptian Mythology - Dig In":

http://www.mugglenet.com/viewer//?image_location=poa/germanpb/gpbook-new%20(15).jpg

You'll have to read some of the thread, which is here,
http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=20899&page=1&highlight=Egyptian+Mythology

but it blew me away that we had been talking about this topic for months, and there was this Egyptian connection right there in the movie. It all has to do with the way Egyptians had gods based on dogs. Sirius/Osiris is the most important, but there is the "wolf god" Wepwawet, and the guardian of the underworld, Anubis, the jackal god who weighs people's hearts on a golden scale.

In GoF, when Harry is fghing Voldemort, there is a line that says something like "The Death Eaters circled like Jackals." The jackal was also the guardian of the graveyard in Egyptian mythology, so maybe that is why the graveyard remark is important - so strange!

There was another scene I saw, maybe during the showing of the first movie on TV a few weeks ago. They showed a scene from Azkaban in which Hermione tells Ron that "Egyptians worshipped cats," and Ron says, "They also worshipped dung beetles."

Anyway, I don't know that JKR is talking about any of this, but I'm happy that I studied this topic and can't wait to look for more clues in the movie!

But, even though we may have somethings figured out, Jo has said that there is something central to the whole story that no one has figured out, but a few people have skirted. Now, I don't think that she has read each and every one of the millions of posts and theories out there, but I still think that she's pretty much right on with that one. There has to be a common thread that ties everything together and wraps it all up into one nice little package. I'm sure that when we read books 6 &7, we are all going to log on to CoS and smack our selves in the head and say "DUH...how could we miss that...." I'm really interested to see the movie and try to figure out which things are clues. Maybe I'll watch the movie and then go through the books and read only the parts that were included in the movie.
Until then, coming up with wacky theories is fun
When you put it that way, I tend to agree!
~*She furiously takes notes regarding the "one thread to rule them all" and scurries to the theatre to get in line.*~
Thanks.

It's because of how closely JKR works with Kloves. It's pretty much understood that JKR will not let them leave out any bit of foreshadowing that she feels is vital, and she also will not let them put anything in that will also likely screw it up. She DOES let them move things around. You may act as if the movies are not important to the big picture, but they are.

Just remember, the movies are adaptations of the books. The books are the real story, not the movies. It frusturates me to no end to see how many people are taking the movies as cannon more over the books. That and the fact that Draco is so popular. JK has even said it, Tom Felton is not Draco!!!" Haha, he is suppose ot be a down right nasty individual. I am hoping Draco will show just how much like his Father he is in Books 6 and 7.
I understand your hesitation in accepting the movies as theory-fodder, but that's where we are. When we have our blessed Jo having no (or very little) problem with the movies and then she says they are actually helping us figure out books 6 & 7, the movies become, if not canon, then at least acceptable. It's okay.

Your right now that I think about it. She does approve everything in the script. And wow, I didn't realize how many Egypt refrences there were. Maybe thats a big thing as well.

I am pretty lost here. What "deliberate error" are you talking about? :huh:
ETA:
What are you thinking here? That Salazar Slytherin is the son/great-son/whatever of time-turned Voldemort?? Where is that chat where JKR hinted that? I believe JKR said exactly the opposite somewhere.



Here's what Rowling said in the second Scholastic interview:

Q: Is Voldemort the last remaining ancestor of Slytherin, or the last remaining descendent of Slytherin?
Q: Ah, you spotted the deliberate error. Yes, it should read "descendent." That's been changed in subsequent editions. (Keep hold of the "ancestor" one, maybe it'll be valuable one day!)

Note the use of the term "deliberate" error, leading some to speculate and the threads regarding time turning in the HP series to develop.

Why is it always assumed that Ron and/or Hermione come before Harry? Does anybody think that maybe Rowling was referring the protagonist of this story? It bothers me to no end myself how often those two are considered before Harry.

I think what JKR is talking about here is the scen where Lupin talks to harry about his Mom. This whole speech is not in the book at all. It shows that Lupin was very close to Lily. Romantic or just close friends, it could be taken either way. Lily was someone very special to Lupin though. I think that might be what JKR was talking about just because it is something not at all in the book.

Great point. Not to mention Lupin also tells Harry that he is more like his father and his mother than he knows and in time, he will find out just how much he is like them. Now Harry has been told more than once that he looks like James (and he did what James would of done and that he is James' son) but we have never really have gotten what part of Harry besides his eyes are like Lily.

Then there is also a scene where Sirius tells Harry that he will be surprised how often he will find the answers here (Sirius points to his heart). Harry doesn't understand or realize that yet despite what Dumbledore told him in OoTP.

Lizo: What was it like meeting JK, what was her advice like?

Alfonso:

The amazing thing with JK as a collaborator is she doesn't stop you doing anything. The way she approaches it has nothing to do with 'I like' or 'I dislike' it's 'this makes sense' or 'it doesn't make sense in this universe.'

I give you an example: There's a scene where Malfoy wants to see Buckbeak being executed. It's where Hermione punches him. And there's a sundial. We thought we need something there. I said 'Let's put a graveyard there'.

She says: 'No, you can't have a graveyard there'. And I'm like, 'Why?' She says: 'Oh because the graveyard is near this other wing of the castle and it's going to play an important part in number six because such and such and such.'

So then you say 'What about a sundial?' She says: 'That makes perfect sense because when the castle was built it was on an ancient Celtic site.' Bap bap bap!

You have to be humble and respect it! She has full control of that universe and you don't want to contradict that.

Lizo: So wow, there's a graveyard at Hogwarts that plays a crucial part in book six!

Alfonso: Six or seven. She said 'later on' - I don't have the specifics.

From here: http://news.bbc.co.uk/cbbcnews/hi/tv_film/newsid_3758000/3758101.stm

So I wasn't hearing things. :D

Note the use of the term "deliberate" error, leading some to speculate and the threads regarding time turning in the HP series to develop.

I think she was joking. It reminds me far too much of what some of my teacher's say when they make a mistake and we correct them. Usually an embarassed: "I was making sure you were awake." :rolleyes:

'..near the other wing of the castle'?

-North = Quidditch Pitch
-East = Lake
-West = Forbidden Forrest
- South = Graveyard?

The graveyard has to be concealed in the forbidden forrest. Harry would of mentioned the graveyard if 'twas in the Hogwarts grounds.
Why is the forrest really forbidden? Can't because of a few unicorns and nifflers, there has to be something else in there.

I think some of you are coming at this from the direction. The way I read it:

1. Alfonso Cauron said he read PoA and fell in love with it, and that's why he decided to direct the film when he was originally not interested in the job. I believe the following sentence was saying he read the rest of the books after that, although the sentence wasn't really clear.

2. So, the script was written, and he had it all in his head, including Book 5, and he highlighted something that wasn't highlighted in PoA, but turns out to be important in Book 6 and/or Book7.

As an example of what I mean, let's say that in Book 7, at the end, we find out Harry eventually becomes Minister of Magic.

No indication whatsoever of that in PoA, but maybe Alfonso he tossed in a comment by Fudge, or highlighted Fudge's conversation with Harry, in such a way, that it foreshadowed Harry being Minister of Magic one day. In Book 5, McGonagall said she'd help Harry become an Auror if it's the last thing she does. So Alfonso, having read book 5, has it in his head that Harry may be an auror in his future, and it's not that much of a stretch to think from Auror, Harry may be promoted to Minister of Magic one day.

So when Fudge catches up with Harry at the Leaky Cauldron, he says to Harry, "You're a sharp boy, Harry, you remind me alot of me". And Voila, without even meaning to Alfonso accidentally foreshadows Harry becoming Minister of Magic.

Note: I don't believe this example is what will happen, but I believe a situation along these lines is what JKR meant. Something that just seems natural progression, is done without thinking about it, and it eventually turns out to be just so.

Several people have mentioned the Remus/Lily connection. This is what interests me the most. And there's the bit where Lupin says something along the lines of "she believed in me when no-one else did" (can't remember exact wording). What's this about? Does this mean that at some point, even James and Sirius turned against Lupin? And if so, why would Lily side with Remus rather than James? I think that this could be very interesting for the future...

welll... perhaps this is useless.

but with all this mention of Egypt references, I think that the Weaselys DID visit Egypt to see Bill... maybe there was another reason for it?

I think we need to keep in mind that Cauron inadvertantly added these "clues". That could mean that they weren't necessarily in the script but it was how he set up and filmed the scenes.

yeah that Remus/Lily quote does seem realy important
i hope they inclde it in the film then we'll know it was for certain.

Having only seen different video clips lying around the net, the scene I'm most interested in is the scene with Lupin and Harry talking about his parents. I was struck most by the fact the conversation "seemed" to center around Lilly instead of James. It seems quite a departure from Harry and Lupin's conversations in the book. Mainly, in that Lupin on really talks about James in the Shrieking Shack scene in PoA and about Lilly and James getting together in OoTP. We currently still know very little about Lilly.

I suspect, though with the scene with Lupin, is Alfonso trying to get Dumbledore's speech that happens at the end of PoA into different portions of the Movie. Lupin would have the same information that DD would have James and Lilly. The information, given by Lupin, could easily be inserted where Harry and Lupin are talking when Harry can't go to the first Hogsmeade visit.

The scripts are really different from the books, and I know that JKR has input into them, so perhaps we should just see the movies as extensions of this world that is in her mind. Any thing or character that is kept in the movie is important, and anything or character left out may not be as important as it seems in the book. Something like that.


I just thought the projector idea was a brilliant thing that perhaps Cuaron threw in to the movie that is not in the book. In the book, Snape tells them to write an essay on werewolves, but he doesn't tell them any details. In the movie, it seems there is a lecture accompanied by the projector. A detail that isn't in any book!

I'm glad to hear that there is a graveyard, because there have been quite a few deaths and absolutely no mention of memorial services or funerals. Harry has never been to a funeral, it seems, and that is kind of strange. Perhaps, like the Egyptians or the Celts, wizards honor the dead only at certain times of the year. I can see why Harry didn't go to Cedric's funeral, even though he brought the body back to the parents, but what will they do for Sirius? There is no body, but shouldn't there be some sort of memorial? And shouldn't Harry be there?

Lupin's speech is really interesting! I can't wait to see this movie!

I think Lupin talking about Lily would be understandable. We now know he was a prefect,who was the female prefect in their year, Lily? If so they would have spent a lot of time together in prefect duties away from the "mauraders". He most likely became very good friends with her during this time.

She didn't really say it was a clue, she said there's a coincidence that could be mistaken as a clue once we know why.

That's the impression I got from what J.K. Rowling said, anyway. Cuaron had no idea he was doing it, and so it wasn't something deliberately put in there - how could it have been, if he didn't know? - it's just that it (whatever it might be) coincidentally ties in with something in the next books. It could be in a very vague way, too, so I don't think people should start trying to figure it out as though it was something intentionally slipped in there to be figured out.

I think your are right, Daedalus.

On the other hand, since she knows what is in the script, there are clues there too.

I just listened to the Lupin and Lily dialogue over and over, and here is exactly, word for word, what is said in the clip:

http://mediaframe.yahoo.com/launch?lid=wmv-56-p.1271498-128792,wmv-300-p.1271500-128792,wmv-100-p.1271499-128792&p=movies&f=1808404334&.spid=1808574389&.dist=Warner%20Bros.&type=c&lpp=1&lpr=2&rand=0.7349041550158694


You know, the very first time I saw you, Harry, I recognized you immediately. Not by your scar, by your eyes. They're your mother, Lily's.
Yes, oh yes, I knew her. Your mother was there for me at the time when no one else was. Not only was she a singularly gifted witch, she was also an uncommonly kind one. She had a way of seeing the beauty in others, even, and perhaps most especially, when that person could not see it in themselves.
Then your father, James, on the other hand, he, uh, had, shall we say, a certain talent for trouble . . . a talent, rumor has it, he passed on to you.
You're more like them than you know, Harry, and in time you'll come to see just how much.

Lupin doesn't say any of this in the book! It isn't exactly flattering to James, either, which is surprising (not to me, really, but to alot of people in the "Cult of the Marauders")

Hmm. Lupin's speech is interesting. When exactly was Lily there for him? Is this foreshadowing some feelings Lupin may have had for Lily? Although, I agree, when JKR says she was stunned when she "saw" the movie, that makes it seem more like choices Cuaron made with staging, etc. Would she have been given chills seeing the speech if she had already read it in the script?

What about the scene where Snape protects the trio, which I've only seen in photos and stills? Does that play out as out-of-character as it looks? That could also be a clue.

As for Ron/Hr, I don't see that as much of a "chilling" clue. JKR has hinted pretty strongly on a number of occasions that Hr had a thing for Ron and he was too dumb to see it.

I think it's the whole Ron/Hermione thing. Although it's probably alot more then that obviously, because we already know about that. But I can't think of anything else that could be used as a clue. Although knowing JKR it's always the little stuff that nobody notices. But I'm going to make sure to pay really close attention to the movie when I see it.

I think also with the Lupin and Lily thing that Lily might of been one of the few who actually saw Lupin for who he really was. Not a werewolf but as a friend. She might of been the only one to get through to him.

Although knowing JKR it's always the little stuff that nobody notices.


But it wasn't J. K. Rowling. Clues about the next two books weren't planted in the film for us to find. By the way it was worded, I'd say that Cuaron was just particularly insightful in some way and he attributed that directly to the book. I don't think it's going to be obvious, something that says 'WHAM! Here's a clue!' because that apparently wasn't the intention.

I'd say it was just the way something[s] was done or worded that paved the way for something we find out or something that happens...

Notice as well that Jo didn't say that the PoA film could be used to help us work out things in books six and/or seven...? We might only know what she's on about afterwards.

As with so many things Jo says, this one is pretty confusing. It sounds as if the things she's talking about will seem obvious once we've read the next books. That quote from Cuaron, though, like Cat said, implies that he was just picking up on things that are subtly hinted in the book.

Lupin's speech is intriguing. I don't undestand why he would have a higher view of Lily than of James, considering that James was the one who worked for three years to help him and that Lupin stuck up for him in OOTP. Could it be that Lily was the only one who didn't believe he was the spy in the Order?

well having seen the movie, I can give my opinion on what might be clues
there were a couple of things that were in the film that I didn't remember from the book. then again it's been over a year since I read the book, so maybe I just dont remember. Like Parvati's boggart, I didn't understand why they kept that in and cut so much other stuff. and I think dumbledore made some comment about professor flitwick to snape while they were walking about the students sleeping in the great hall, but I missed part of the dialogue so I don't remember who or what they were talking about. ugh! also the part in the dorm with the 5 boys eating candy didn't seem to have any significance.

I wouldn't call the ron/hermione interaction clues. everything was pretty much right out of the book. they did have both Sirius and Lupin emphasize that Harry looked more like James but definitely had Lily's eyes. and at the dinner scene with Aunt marge, petunia mentioned that James was "unemployed" but since that was all in the book, I can't really call it a clue....

guess we'll have to wait for the book to come out before we know...

Lupin's speech is intriguing. I don't undestand why he would have a higher view of Lily than of James, considering that James was the one who worked for three years to help him and that Lupin stuck up for him in OOTP. Could it be that Lily was the only one who didn't believe he was the spy in the Order?

I don't think they were suggesting that he had a higher view of Lily than James. He talked about her more in that scene, but that might have just been to give Lily some spotlight (it being otherwise mostly about the blokes).

I think it was also a werewolf thing. He was referring to acceptance. James obviously accepted him, but James probably wasn't as sensitive a character as Lily, so the dialogue wouldn't have been as touching and sweet :D.

I tend to think of Harry as a bit more of a mummy's boy, anyway, despite people always expecting him to be like his dad. Praise for mum tugs at the heartstrings more.

She says: 'No, you can't have a graveyard there'. And I'm like, 'Why?' She says: 'Oh because the graveyard is near this other wing of the castle and it's going to play an important part in number six because such and such and such.'

So then you say 'What about a sundial?' She says: 'That makes perfect sense because when the castle was built it was on an ancient Celtic site.' Bap bap bap!

You have to be humble and respect it! She has full control of that universe and you don't want to contradict that.

Lizo: So wow, there's a graveyard at Hogwarts that plays a crucial part in book six!

Alfonso: Six or seven. She said 'later on' - I don't have the specifics.

Five quid that Lily and James are buried there. Much angst will ensue.

She had a way of seeing the beauty in others, even, and perhaps most especially, when that person could not see it in themselves.

Whose beauty? James'? Lupin's? Snape's?! And has Harry inherited that gift? And whose beauty he is going to see, if that's the case?

Anyone?

I wonder if so much of Lupins comments about Lily was due to the fact that the power he needs to kill Voldemort may come from his mother. Like how she died for Harry. That was Ancient Magic. Maybe Harry has inherited this from Lily.

But I'm with everyone else here, the scene with Lupin and Harry was/is very important. I got that the first time I saw the clip.

I hate to say it, but in many ways I am more interested in James/Lily/Sirius/Lupin/Peter and there whole story than I am in Harry/Ron/Hermione. I really hope we get a lot more backstory on them. And I agree, Harry's traits from his Mother are going to be very important later on. Not just the magic that protects him that she left, but the things in his personality that come from her.

I hate to say it, but in many ways I am more interested in James/Lily/Sirius/Lupin/Peter and there whole story than I am in Harry/Ron/Hermione. I really hope we get a lot more backstory on them.
Yeah - me too I'm very interrested in the backstory, the time before Harry was born. Maybe there will be an extra book about this somewhen in the future ... who knows.

That would be great. I know it will never happen, but I would love ot have a whole other series on them. The only think is that james is a character I think most people wouldn't take to until James 6th year. I have a feeling thats probably we he turned himself around personality-wise.

As an example of what I mean, let's say that in Book 7, at the end, we find out Harry eventually becomes Minister of Magic.



I believe JKR specifically said somewhere "17 is MUCH too young to enter politics...".

I hate to say it, but in many ways I am more interested in James/Lily/Sirius/Lupin/Peter and there whole story than I am in Harry/Ron/Hermione. I really hope we get a lot more backstory on them. And I agree, Harry's traits from his Mother are going to be very important later on. Not just the magic that protects him that she left, but the things in his personality that come from her.

I'm not sure, but I THINK JKR said somewhere that she'll be covering so much on the Marauders in the last two books that we wouldn't need a prequel.

Well, thats good to hear. That to me says what everyone has been thinking, Lupin is going to get major story time. That makes me very happy

Erm... going a little off topic here but could this be important later?

With another choke of his guttural laughter, Gary Oldman refuses to reveal what his tattoos mean. We’re sitting in a sun-filled antechamber to the sprawling, wonderful Potter sets at Leavesden Studios, and he’s in fine spirits, despite looking close to death.

“It’s Alfonso’s idea,” he smiles. “They have a meaning, but I can’t tell you.”

Why wouldn't we be able to know what they mean? If you check out a rune reading site it's pretty easy to find out.

Here's what I found so far--

Perthro- mystery; changes
Algiz- Protection; oppertunities

(This could be one of two, I don't know what it is yet.)

Anzus- Insight; expectation of the unexpected
Anzus Reversed- Delusion


If you just look at their letters instead of the meanings then I'm sure it would spell AZKABAN PRISON. So far I can only see an A,P, and Z but there are a lot more that I can't see completely. Er, well that's it. It may or may not be important.

I'm merging this with a thread entitled Can the films help us sift through what's important for Books Six and Seven? (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=14935)

:)

Remus Lupin, in the movie:
She had a way of seeing the beauty in others, even, and perhaps most especially, when that person could not see it in themselves.
This is very interesting. Notice Lupin doesn't mention anyone specific here. At first blush it seems like Lupin is talking about Lily interacting with himself, about his curse (when he says Lily was there for him when no one else was). However, could he be also talking about Lily interacting with Snape? (Or, perhaps, he could be talking about Lily's interactions with both Lupin and Snape.)

It could be that Lily's kindness eventually penetrated Snape's thick skull, and high walls of defense (her seeing the beauty in Snape, even though Snape didn't see it himself). And it might've been her kindness that led to his leaving the Death Eaters, and join Dumbledore. And Snape might've been devastated that Lily died, that he could not somehow save her. And perhaps that's part of the reason Dumbledore trusts Snape so much.

And, I think I've started too many sentences with "and", so I'd better stop. ;-)

There is something small that I noticed in CoS and that is a crystal ball, it sat on Dumbledore desk when he was showing Harry Godric Gryffindor’s sword. Then the crystal ball appeared again in PoA which I found odd as Harry hears what I think is Voldemort’s voice and sees something strange within it. Now in the books Harry sees nothing so why change it and include the crystal ball in both CoS and PoA.

I bet that is how Dumbledore is always one step ahead of everyone else and all knowing about things.

I don’t like using the films to determine things coming in the next two books but in an interview she did say that something small will come from CoS on the DVD interview and the crystal ball was a very small scene but just enough there to catch your eye. Not only that but on the front cover of the DVD box Dumbledore is holding the crystal ball in CoS and yet it does not really have anything to do with the book plot or the film plot, it’s just there and then appears again in PoA.

There is a thread that discusses whether or not Harry is a seer and well in the books there is no evidence but in PoA the fact that he sees something in the crystal ball suggests that he could be.

I was wondering whether or not Harry could use this method to spy on Voldemort without his detection.

I don't think the films can be used to help find the clues to books 6 or 7. Rowling may work closely with the screenwriter but once the director starts making the film it will be done his way. They may try to appease her in the editing process but ultimately the actors perform how the director instructs them to. I too think the movies should be taken on their own but stick to the text for clues and such. There are quite a few scenes that seem to be taken out of context in both movies and scenes where the wrong character seems to be making revelations to people. Back to the devils snare scene in the first movie, Harry is the person with the cool head while Hermione has the knowledge. Hermione's moment to shine, the potion scene using logic, during that final chase is completely cut from the movie. Maybe the scene was not important but what other scenes will be cut as the books get longer while trying to make the movies fit a reasonable timeframe for a movie.

I don't think Jo has as much control over the films as a lot of people seem to believe. They apparently go through things with her, and she goes through things with them, but I can't see her leaning over every stage of the film production with a red marker pen.

Basically, I don't think the films can be used as a guide for understanding the next books or, even worse, an extension of the books. They're probably not even a filtration device to eliminate all the things that 'don't matter' from the story - even if Jo told them everything that will turn out to be important, they might not be able to fit it all in, especially when they have to include 'less important' things such as character development. Kloves and a few others may know more than the average fan does about certain things, and might even sneak things in to be mischievous, but the films are there to tell the story of their own books, not of every book thereafter as well.

The way many fans talk about it, you'd think Jo wrote down several clues on Post-It notes and stuck them in the original script with the message 'Insert clue here'.

The way many fans talk about it, you'd think Jo wrote down several clues on Post-It notes and stuck them in the original script with the message 'Insert clue here'.
You mean she doesn't? :p

I understand what Cat means. Of course the movies follow the plot and everything, but they have a life of their own, and should be watched and enjoyed on their own.

Still, JKR of course has to have some input. And even if she doesn't necessarily read through the scripts and change everything, she must know roughly what parts they're going to change, and what conversations they add etc.

That's why I find that Lupin-about-Lily thing so interesting. Even if I won't believe it to 100% until JKR confirms it either through a future book or through an interview, I still find it interesting. I never thought that Lupin would know Lily so well.
Still, if it's really important to future plots, JKR would have added it in a book. She cant expect every fan of her books to watch the movies. I don't think she counted on movies when she started writing, so she didn't plan to add half of her "clues" to the movies, and half to the books.

And even if she doesn't necessarily read through the scripts and change everything, she must know roughly what parts they're going to change, and what conversations they add etc.


Not necessarily. Somebody might ask her expert advice if they were unsure about the consequences of removing a certain scene or whether a certain line was well off the mark, but I think everybody involved probably has enough confidence not to go running to Jo every time they are faced with the scary predicament of artistic liscensing :D.

I think the Lily thing might have been the impression that was given to Kloves/Cuaron in the books. Even before OotP, I think most people thought James was a bit less charming and lovely than she was. I don't think anybody has a negative image in their head of Lily Potter (well, except the people who think she was a Death Eater or a minx who went around cheating on James constantly).

Anyway, if you think the Lily thing is important in conjunction with a certain interview with a certain Joanne Rowling recently, then you're missing the fact that Jo was seemingly quite surprised by Alfonso's insight, so she couldn't have confided with him about it :p.

I think that there are definitely clues in the Harry Potter movies that point toward important events/characters/objects/etc. in the future of the series. It is important that certain things be included in the movies if they are going to appear in later books, even if they don't seem to directly relate to the storyline that the director is working with. (ie someone had mentioned the scene with the hand in Knockturn Alley...why would they have included that scene, when they cut out the scene where Harry sees Draco and Lucius in that store???) Makes me think that the hand is going to play a part in one of the future books.

The director obviously doesn't know what is going on as JKR does. Of course, she is helping him keep the important stuff and disregard the rest. But, there is a difference between movies and books and movies can't have all those little hints that the Harry Potter books carry.

It is important that certain things be included in the movies if they are going to appear in later books, even if they don't seem to directly relate to the storyline that the director is working with. (ie someone had mentioned the scene with the hand in Knockturn Alley...why would they have included that scene, when they cut out the scene where Harry sees Draco and Lucius in that store???) Makes me think that the hand is going to play a part in one of the future books.

Alternatively, they might just have wanted to put as many things from the book as possible in the film, but were stuck for time and had to shorten scenes like this. The hand could have been included to give the audience a jump with its sudden movement - little frights are always worth including.

Of course, They will.

JKR once said during interview on COS DVD that she would be happy if all the HP movies always use her POV, which is now that've proven right. Why would she want to waste her time helping Steve Kloves (screen writer) to give him direction what should be in the film or what can be out of the script ; To prevent the script itself will not across the line/pattern.

So, basically, for us who never read the HP series or just read them AFTER watching the movies, still will be able to follow the line.

PS : JKR once said in recently interview that on the next 3rd HP movie, there will be a few hints about what is going to happen in the 6th and 7th book.

I think that the "Clue" was Hermione grabbing Ron's wrist...as if we all didn't figure out that they liked eachother from the "Hug/Handshake" in CoS
I haven't seen the movie yet, but I think that Lupin was just telling Harry what wonderful people his parents were. Did he mention her specially more than once? If he did mention her more than that once, then I'll start speculating.

Erm... going a little off topic here but could this be important later?

With another choke of his guttural laughter, Gary Oldman refuses to reveal what his tattoos mean. We’re sitting in a sun-filled antechamber to the sprawling, wonderful Potter sets at Leavesden Studios, and he’s in fine spirits, despite looking close to death.

“It’s Alfonso’s idea,” he smiles. “They have a meaning, but I can’t tell you.” te:



Why wouldn't we be able to know what they mean? If you check out a rune reading site it's pretty easy to find out.

Here's what I found so far--

Perthro- mystery; changes
Algiz- Protection; oppertunities

(This could be one of two, I don't know what it is yet.)

Anzus- Insight; expectation of the unexpected
Anzus Reversed- Delusion


If you just look at their letters instead of the meanings then I'm sure it would spell AZKABAN PRISON. So far I can only see an A,P, and Z but there are a lot more that I can't see completely. Er, well that's it. It may or may not be important.

The Lupin-Lily thing bewilders me rather. From the way he talks about her in the clip we've seen, it sounds as if they were far closer than indicated by the books (he says that she was 'there for me at a time when no-one else was').

Before I get jumped on, I'm making no assumptions that their relationship was anything romantic etc- I'm just saying that it bewilders me how this film scene seems to indicate that Lupin was just as close to Lily as to James, whereas the book offers no such clues. I don't see how Kloves would have been allowed to just add this in of his own accord, especially if you listen to the fairly detailed and affectionate description of Lily's character that Lupin gives afterwards. Kloves seems to know far more about what Lily was like that we, the readers do.

So he must have consulted with JK Rowling about this. There must be some element of Lupin backstory that we're not yet aware of- at what point was Lily 'there for him' when James wasn't? It's puzzling that this isn't foreshadowed in the books, if it is going to come up.

Maybe this is just wishful thinking on my part (as a Lupin fan, hoping he's going to come up more in future!), but I can't see JKR allowing Kloves that much artistic license on her characters. She wouldn't allow Kloves to just invent an element like this if it wasn't there in her original visualisation.

PS : JKR once said in recently interview that on the next 3rd HP movie, there will be a few hints about what is going to happen in the 6th and 7th book.

No, she said:
'I really got goose bumps when I saw a couple of those things, and I thought, people are going to look back on the film and think that those were put in deliberately as clues'



Before I get jumped on, I'm making no assumptions that their relationship was anything romantic etc- I'm just saying that it bewilders me how this film scene seems to indicate that Lupin was just as close to Lily as to James, whereas the book offers no such clues....

...So he must have consulted with JK Rowling about this. There must be some element of Lupin backstory that we're not yet aware of- at what point was Lily 'there for him' when James wasn't? It's puzzling that this isn't foreshadowed in the books, if it is going to come up.


Firstly, I don't agree that they were indicating that Lupin was closer to Lily than to James. It can't be all James all the time, especially not when there's an excuse to get a nice emotional shot of Harry looking tearfully happy about his dear departed mother. You've got to admit that Lily lends herself better to scenes like that - James wasn't quite so sweet.

Secondly, I've read fan fiction (:scared:) that depicts Lily in exactly the same way as described in the film. The fan fiction writers certainly didn't consult Jo about it. It's easy to deduce from the books that Lily was a very nice person and then simply expand on that.

I know what you mean, but it was Lupin's specific reference to an element of Lily's character (her ability to 'see beauty in others') that made me wonder. It just seems like an awful lot of artistic license on Kloves' part to assume that Lily was 'there for him when no-one else was'.

That's quite a specific thing for him just to have invented of his own accord. The reason I have my suspicions that this is one of the 'clues' is that I really can't see JKR just saying 'yup, that's fine, we'll let it pass, a closer Lupin-Lily friendship makes good film drama even if I never even considered it...'

I know what you mean, but it was Lupin's specific reference to an element of Lily's character (her ability to 'see beauty in others') that made me wonder. It just seems like an awful lot of artistic license on Kloves' part to assume that Lily was 'there for him when no-one else was'.


Not really. That whole speech boils down to 'She was very nice'. The 'beauty in others' bit was probably yet another hint to the fact that he is somewhat... different.

If he had said that James saw beauty in others, there would be lots of fans questioning Lupin's sexuality. More than there are already, I mean.

Even if they did ask Jo for some background on Lily, I don't think those lines point to anything we couldn't have imagined for ourselves. If he had said 'Oh, yes, I knew her - she was a barmaid down at The Hogs' Head', my eyebrow would definitely have been more quizzically elevated.

Yes I mean in a way J.K.Rowling must have some control in what goes in for extras or remains the same and what goes out of the film due to time restrictions.

What is left out simply suggests that it will not be needed in the future films or can be placed into the script later on if important. The only clues that might be present in the film to later books are those scenes that are made to stick in your mind. Like the offer of Godric Gryffindor's sword at the end of CoS, that is practically shoved in your face and just says look at me I'm important, well not literally but that is what I felt when watching the film.

The films must be controlled to some point as they can not be allowed to deviate too far from the final books in the series as fans just would no go to see the movies if they did. Now if J.K.Rowling states in an interview that there is something important in CoS that will come up later on in the series then the question needs to be asked, is that just something added to the film that was not in the book or is it something present in both the book and film as the interview was all about the film and not the book itself.

I think the things that J.K.Rowling states are important and will need to be brought up again in the film due to plot importance will be made more clearly in the films than in the books itself. Those things that stand out the most in the films may be clues to how important certain scenes may be in the future but I would still air a bit of caution as to whether they are or not, in the end the films will differ from the books.

If he had said that James saw beauty in others, there would be lots of fans questioning Lupin's sexuality. More than there are already, I mean.

:lol:

Not really. That whole speech boils down to 'She was very nice'.

I'm still interpreting it as just a wee bit too specific to be that simple. Maybe I'm just delusional, or maybe we'll be able to make some more sense of this once the film is out (Seeing it tomorrow- :rotfl:). I'm normally very sceptical about theories in all shapes and forms, but this has piqued my interest...

We'll see. You have permission to laugh at me after bk7 comes out, and it turns out the whole thing was Kloves-style cheese after all. :p

We'll see. You have permission to laugh at me after bk7 comes out, and it turns out the whole thing was Kloves-style cheese after all. :p

I wouldn't laugh at you for your speculation. You can laught at me though - I'm not seeing the film until Tuesday :sigh:.

I doubt that the movies give much new information about future events in the series. I mean, I know screenwriter Steve Kloves has to consult with JK constantly to ask her if he can put certain things in the movie or leave certain things out, since she has to approve and make sure that events in the movies won't be contradicted by the books. If you watched the bonus features on DVD (I think on the CoS DVD) there is an interview with JK and screenwriter Steve Kloves which shows that she doesn't tell him anything about future books, aside from telling him that certain things WILL play a role in the future (for example she said the Chamer of Secrets will play a role in the future books - I think he wanted it to be destroyed in the movie or something). He was sort of complaining that she doesn't tell him anything, and she said "Well if you were dying I would."

She did recently say that some things in the PoA movie worried her, because she thought they might be seen as foreshadowing for the books, when there really isn't any foreshadowing in the movie for books beyond OoTP.

Well I just saw the film yesterday, and there were a few things that jumped out at me.

1) The whole Lupin/Lily thing. It is stressed way more in that scene in the film, and makes it sound as if he was closer to Lily than to James.

2) The prophecy has morphed beyond recognition. It's not the fact that it happens at completely the wrong the time, so much as the fact that we now have a general prediction instead of a specific one. Trelawney says something like "innocent blood will be spilled." Is it just me or does that have to be talking about GoF?

3) When did the dementors develop the ability to fly?

4) Harry sees Pettigrew on the map, goes for a night-time wander, gets caught by Snape, Lupin appears, etc. After Lupin tells off Harry (as in book) Harry tells him he saw Pettigrew, but it still takes awhile for the whole Whomping Willow scene to happen. It just seemed to happen too early.

5) The whole "The Marauders were James, Sirius, Remus and Peter" realisation is never actually made.

6) Harry seemed to come round to believing Sirius too soon, in my opinion.


I know this all sounds rather negative, but I actually liked the film much more than the first two, it's a real improvement. In fact I think I would have enjoyed the flm a lot if I didn't know PoA so well. In fact, even though I did know it well I quite enjoyed it. There's some good funny parts. Specifically time-travelling Hermione at the pumpkin patch (I won't give it away).

A more positive thing that I noticed:

When Snape takes DADA it is emphasised that the class should turn to p394 several times, exactly the same page as in the books. Probably nothing, but it kept a nit-picker (me) very happy.

I have to say I am rather wary about basing theories on the films, and the whole "JKR approves them" thing, and my main reason is, in the CoS film the carriages that bring them to the school are not horseless, and that's quite a big storyline in OotP. Because of this I can't decide how much credence to give the whole Lily/Lupin thing, and I'm reserving judgement. There does seem to be some emphasis on it in the film, though.

i noticed a few things

they didnt seem to stop going on about how harry was like his dad but had his mum's eyes

also, in the boys dorm after they had arrived at hogwarts (with the animal sweets) could that be a link to fred and george's shop??? in the PoA game there is a shop run be fred and george so maybe weasley's wizard wheezes will have an important part in the next 2 books???

In answer to the whole Lupin/Lilly thing. I have a theory!

OK I know that this is rather far-fetched and I don`t really believe it myself cause Lupin is one of my favourite characters I just have a feeling that he may have been a death eater at one time. I have several pieces of "evidence" that point to this and I believe that Lilly being supportive may have been because she was the only one who fully trusted him after his redemption.

1. First of all in PoA (the book) I think it mentions if I remember correctly that Lupin says Dumbledore is a great man because he gives people second chances. Ok the first chance he would have given Lupin is that he could come to school despite being a werwolf (dunno how its spelt). But what was his second chance for?

2. Secondly although this is not really evidence I believe that Lupin may have been attracted to Voldemorts cause at first because Voldemort treats all of his followers reasonablly equally and would not be predjudiced against him for being a werwolf. So I think that at first he may have been attracted to Voldemort cause before he showed his true colours. Though it would be interesting to find out about Lupins bloodlines. Was he a pureblood?

3. Thirdly to back up my second point. Why is it that Sirius thought that the traitor was Lupin rather than Wormtail. It must have been obvious to Sirius the type of person that Wormtail was and that under normal circumstances he would have been most likely to be a traitor. If however, Lupin had come back to the good side from Voldemorts side there would be a greater suspicion of him than Wormtail. This seems to be the only plausible explanation except maybe that Sirius is simply a very bad judge of peoples character.

4. In GoF Voldemort goes on about a death eater who has forever forsaken him and I am assuming he is not talking about Snape because for some reason Snape is on good terms with some prominent death reaters such as Lucius Malfoy and I cannot see why this could be so if they did not think that he was still a death eater. After all Snape can lie to Voldemort because he is a skilled legimens. (This theory about Snape is probably the one you would believe because you probably not believe as I do that Snape is in fact an active Death Eater - but this is not for now). - It does not matter anyway all Im trying to say whatever your opinion is that Voldemort is not refering to Snape as the Death Eater who has forsaken him. So then who is it? It is not Karkarrof he is the other one he mentions.

Ok I probably have not convinced you because like me you probably see Lupin as one of your fav characters and Im not saying he is evil. I am just saying that Lupin was originally attracted to Voldemort when he had a more moderate stance at the beginning in the hope of equal rights etc. However, as soon as he realised what Voldemort was really upto he left the Death Eaters to join the OoTP and he found that except Dumbledore, Lilly Potter was the only one who fully trusted him. At the time he was consumed with horrors and guilt with himself at joining Voldemort and so clung to Lillys belief in him as the thing which stopped him going mad.

Quote:
Quote:
You know, the very first time I saw you, Harry, I recognized you immediately. Not by your scar, by your eyes. They're your mother, Lily's.
Yes, oh yes, I knew her. Your mother was there for me at a time when no one else was. Not only was she a singularly gifted witch, she was also an uncommonly kind one. She had a way of seeing the beauty in others, even, and perhaps most especially, when that person could not see it in themselves.
Then your father, James, on the other hand, he, uh, had, shall we say, a certain talent for trouble . . . a talent, rumor has it, he passed on to you.
You're more like them than you know, Harry, and in time you'll come to see just how much.


This would completely fit my theory as Lilly was there for him at a time when no one else was and of course she saw beauty in him when he could not see it in himself. After this experience he repented everything he had done and commited himself to and emerged a new man who was desperate to devote himself to fighting Voldemort to defeat the guilt he felt inside and of course because he was ashamed with himself at what his friends saw him as.

I am sorry for the length of this and I had no idea I would ramble on this long once I had started but I think that there is something very special about this scene in the film and that my theory fits this and several other loose ends. What do you people think?

I just have a feeling that Lupin may have been a death eater at one time.

Hmmm...interesting theory. I've always wondered why Sirius thought Lupin was the informer too. Could be that Sirius thought Peter too insignificant to be a threat (like Kreacher) and process of elimination left Lupin. But that's a bit of a flimsy reason to doubt a true friend. Especially when Lupin made it clear how grateful he was that the Marauders learned to transform into animals for his sake. Plus his character is just so....trustworthy.

I don't doubt that Jo was consulted about adding such specific info about a Lupin/Lilly connection. Going on about how kind she was would have been enough for background. But "she was there for me when no one else was"? IMHO, adding that info had a purpose. Unfortunately, knowing how crafty Jo is, and knowing that she knows how shameless we are in our attempts to find out more (she did sound impressed with the speed of the website hacking), it could be just another red herring.

So, if Lily stood by Lupin for some reason, was it because he briefly turned Death Eater? Being accepted by the baddies for being werewolf is certainly a reason, but when his two best friends are actively fighting Voldemort? He didn't even feel right about torturing Snape. Speaking of, I always thought the Death Eater than would "never return" was Snape because AFTER the graveyard scene Dumbledore asks Snape to sneak back to them (assuming that's his secret job). I find it more plausable that he hung around Voldy before the Death Eaters were formed.

still, im not ashamed, I think your theory (and your name) are way cool!

I reckon people have take the JKR comments a bit far. As is said JKR reads the script before they are made into movies and therefore she will not allow too much information to get out as there will be anarchy. I still believe that the only thing the movie shows is the blossoming relationship of Ron and Hermoine

I believe JKR specifically said somewhere "17 is MUCH too young to enter politics...".

Note the word "Eventually". Plus, I specifically said I don't believe that is the specific situation, merely an example to explain what I mean.

I was trying to say that, I believe what JKR was talking about, was that Cauron, theorised about something that would happen eventually, due to clues in a book (any HP book, not neccessarily PoA), and therefore highlighted something, and "whammo", something was exposed by accident that she wasn't planning on fully exposing until later in the series (IE: Book 6 or 7)

Here's a probable clue from the film: we see one of Mcnair's crows landing on Fudge's hat. We know that there'll be a new Minister, but that scene must have been filmed before the interview when JK gave us that information. Given that the crows are obvious symbols of death, is this hinting, then, that Fudge probably won't be voluntarily stepping down from his position...?

I do think that the movie is practically part of the book and has hints to the future books that the first couple of books don't have. Most because JKR has told us in an interview. She said that she discusses alot of the stuff with the writer and director about what needs to be in the movie to determine the future books.

Alot of the reviews are mentioning all the time references in PoA, clocks everywhere. Perhaps time travel is coming back in Book 6 or 7, and Alfonso Cauron's highlight of Clocks and time is the inadvertant foreshadowing that JKR was mentioning.

First of all, as a general point. It is L.I.L.Y. Please. Not Lilly. Not Lilie (not here, thankfully, but it has been done.) Yeesh.

Mini-rant over.

Analysis starting.....now:


Quote:
You know, the very first time I saw you, Harry, I recognized you immediately. Not by your scar, by your eyes. They're your mother, Lily's."

Does that mean Little!Lily in OotP will have huge blue eyes? Yes, Mr Cuaron, I'm available.... it seems odd, and there is an inordinate amount of focus on Harry's parents that was not there before.

Specifically his Patronus (which I finally learned to pronounce)

"Yes, oh yes, I knew her. Your mother was there for me at a time when no one else was. Not only was she a singularly gifted witch, she was also an uncommonly kind one. She had a way of seeing the beauty in others, even, and perhaps most especially, when that person could not see it in themselves.

Huh-huh. Interesting. Everybody seems to love Lily. Is this a 'we do not speak ill of the dead' thing? She sounds like Mary Poppins, it's unnerving.

"Then your father, James, on the other hand, he, uh, had, shall we say, a certain talent for trouble . . . a talent, rumor (RUMOUR, goshdarnit! Sorry.) has it, he passed on to you."

Ah, this sounds more like it. This is foreshadowing OotP, now isn't it? Why do I keep asking rhetorical questions?

"You're more like them than you know, Harry, and in time you'll come to see just how much."

If that isn't foreshadowing, then I don't know what is....

Sindatur has an interesting point. The Galadriel Waters book mentions that the twins may have been time-travelling in GoF - how else would they have known the outcome of the match - and there is a focus on the clocks, and time. Which corresponds to the Department of Mysteries room with all the Time Turners and clocks and things.

Lupin a Death Eater? What's on your forearm? Sorry, had a credit-card ad moment. I don't know....maybe Lily was friends with Lupin when they first came to Hogwarts.re all they were both outsiders, for one reason or another.

Moving on. My points about PoA:

- Funny lines. As in there were some. Hooray for humour!

- The clown Parvati turned the Boggart into was fudging CREEPY. Ugh.

- Like Flees from Death said, I didn't know Dementors could fly. That's more a Lethifold thing, IMO. Dementors, I thought, were more like the Grim Reaper. Those special effects were groovy though.

One last thing. If you go see PoA, do not do what I did and laugh too much. The Beavers give you weird looks, and your non Potter-obsessed friends may disown you.

Happy viewing...

Just a few stylistic touches I picked up on.

Harry spends a lot of time under the cloak in this film. But the way it's done is slightly more chilling. Think of it this way, the cloak sceners are filmed from Harry's point of view, so you see events through the cloak, or rather a veil of somekind. (Veil being the important bit)

Harry's face seen through darkened glass or reflected in water. Very ominous. A death omen perhaps?

Wonder who chose number 7 for Harry's Quidditch uniform? Seven is an important number in numerology. Also, by Lupin's description of Lily I found her to be more like Hermione than Ginny (as a lot people point out.) Clever witch and compassionate.

I think if the movie gave us anything foreshadowing is the idea that Lupin had strong (love) feelings for Lily. This would help to explain why Sirius believed that it was Lupin not Peter who had first betrayed the Potters. Love can be a very powerful emotion and is easily a motive. What hurts worse then the only women that knows your true self and can still be near you picking someone else?

That is a good deal of back story on Lupin that I am not sure we had simply from the books. I don’t remember ever reading about how Lily helps Lupin during his darkest hour. And what could be darker then when he first gets the curse of the werewolf?


I wonder if we can use this for a parallel for the Kids? Maybe Hermione will grow up and make a choice between the boys. Or maybe that’s just reading to much into a hug. Still would be a dark twist to have Ron be the one who has the choice to betray Harry.

IMO, the movies can be used as a guideline, but not the be-all-and-end-all source of information for what's going to happen in 6 and 7. However, since the movies are the condensed versions of the books, and JKR does have approval (how much, we don't know, but we know she does at least see the scripts and point out what's right and wrong), we can look for clues within them. What intrigued me most about PoA was JKR's quote about how we'd all find things within PoA (the film) that, after book 7, we'd look back on and see as foreshadowing. (I don't have the interview link, but if anyone does, I'd greatly appreciate you posting it!) I guess I looked at PoA the film with a critical eye, trying to spot what could be foreshadowing. Granted, I've only seen it once, but here's what I've been pondering:

-Ron and Hermione. Everyone will agree that there's lots of innuendo here, whether you're an R/Hr shipper or not. Will it pan out into a relationship?

-Ron as a Seer. From the books, I've thought that Ron might be a Seer, and the film only heightened my suspicions. The scene in Divination class holds two big clues, IMO. Trelawney senses that Ron has a very aware aura (not sure of the exact quote, but that's the gist.) Right after that, Ron makes his prediction for Harry: that he will suffer, but he will be happy. Comic moment, but in actuality, it comes true. Harry does suffer throughout the film, peaking at the Shreiking Shack, but he winds up happy, finding out about his godfather, saving the day, etc. Trelawney also follows this up by saying that Hermione does not have the Sight, which we know to be true. (On a sidenote, did anyone notice that Trelawney didn't give any phony predictions in the film?) I think that these might be clues to the Ron being a Seer.

- Something unnerving, which I actually hope doesn't come true, came about after Harry overheard McGonagall, Rosmerta, and Fudge in the Hog's Head, and Hermione and Ron came to comfort him. Only Hermione goes to him, while Ron hangs back on the side. Just as Harry's yelling "HE BETRAYED HIS FRIENDS!" they pan out to a wide shot, with Harry and Hermione on one side of the screen and Ron on the other. I literally gasped, because I was struck with the thought that this might be foreshadowing of Ron (on one side) betraying Harry (on the other). It might just have been a coincidence, but this film is so dense that I can't be sure.

-The candy scene, in the dorm (one of my favorite scenes). Ron was a lion, Neville was an elephant, Seamus was a monkey ... Animagus foreshadowing? If so, it would be rather interesting that Ron is a lion, symbol of Gryffindor. Also interesting is Harry not eating an animal candy - is this JKR's way of keeping Harry's Animagus form from us? Does it mean that Harry won't become an Animagus?

-This is a sidenote, but the Weasley twins have come into more prominance, and I couldn't be happier! I hope that this means that they'll include the twins' escape in the OOTP movie (should it be made, knock on wood)!

It's late and I'm tired, so I hope that I'm making sense. As always, I hope to hear from you all and know what you think!

ravenclaw02: I, too, watched PoA with an eye to picking out elements that might foreshadow books 6 and 7, with the idea that they might not be so much things in the script (which JKR had read before, and hence would not have given her goosebumps when she saw the film). Like you, I thought that the dormitory scene with the boys eating the candy might be one such element, particularly with Ron's lion roar. It reminded me of Luna's Gryffindor lion hat, which also roared.

Here are my other best guesses for what those "foreshadowing" elements might be:
1. The crows in Hagrid's pumpkin patch. They were such a prominent visual element, and something that would not have been in the script. The fact that they pecked at Harry, rather than just being there for "atmosphere" seemed significant. Speculation: for me, they hearken visually to Severus, with his shiny black hair so like the shiny feathers of a crow. More speculative: they also bring to mind Lupin's statement about Lily seeing beauty in places where others might not see it. Some people (myself included) like crows, but others see them as foul carrion birds. Sevages: Lily saw beauty in Snivellus where others would not see it?

2. Lupin's werewolf. This was so much more pronounced in the film than in the book, where he just disappeared off into the forest, leaving us to imagine what sorts of things he did. But the film made a much more direct statement about just how much he is NOT human when he is transformed, emphasizing it by having Hermione try to reason with him, only to have him attack. In the book we are told about Padfoot and Prongs controlling Lupin in his werewolf form, but that seems much easier said than done in the film version. The various confrontations (werewolf vs. Snape, werewolf vs. Harry and Hermione, werewolf vs. Beaky) seem to be likely to be repeated. It sort of suggests, though, that it wouldn't matter which side Lupin were on, when he turns into a werewolf he becomes a force of nature (unlike Beaky, who showed himself to be loyal, in the film version).

3. Dumbledore's comment in the great hall, on the night of Sirius' attack on the Fat Lady, about dreams. I only saw the film once, so I don't have the exact quote, but it was about dreams being a sort of personal space, and I was thinking about the mental connection between Harry and Voldemort, and how Harry has had his view of Voldie's actions while he, Harry has been asleep. What about Voldemort's dreams? I expect that we will see some dream interactions between Harry and Voldemort.

POSSIBLE SUPREME MAJOR SPOILER!

READ AT YOUR OWN RISK!!!!!!


OK, those of you unfamiliar bear with me here; Of all the clues in the movie for books 6 and 7 I think the strongest one is as follows (although the people that caught the crow thing was pretty impressive:) The obvious Scene between Lupin and Harry at the Hogwart''s bridge, but for a very different reason.

Before I go on I must say that If you heard this before and you think it's silly, give it a second thought and otherwise you just dont have to read. By the way if this theory has been debunked in some way I am not aware of, feel free to comment.

Well first some background, between books 4 and 5 me and my wife got really desperate for Harry anything and I picked up this book, Which I strongly reccomend as a must buy. If I remember correctly it was called Ultimate Unofficial Guide to the Mysteries of Harry Potter. In the restricted area of the book, the following theory comes up which I believe makes even more sense after the new dialogue from PoA.

The theory goes roughly like this:

The real Remus Lupin is probably already dead. Im a Classics fan and if you recall the legend of Romulus and Remus, Remus is killed by his brother. (this was also noted in the UUGttMHP)

Remember Lily's charm work and how her wand was particurlarly good for that, maybe this is the Area of a "Switching Spell."

Some evidence to mention; just a few points here:
In the books Lupin never stares at Harry's scar in a weird way, and is reluctant to touch him. (theres a ton of other evidence in the book.)
Chapter 10 book 3

when trelayney (I can never spell her name, maybe I need a spellchecker "spell" on my keyboard:) offers to crystal gaze for him he takes off, we think thats because he a werewolf, but as we all read later all the staff already knew. He's hiding something else.

Lupin does not like to hear about Lily's screams; he's paler than usual. It doesn't make him sad it makes him pale. Harry also mentions that he heard his Dad James and this really trows Lupin for loop "remember loopy Lupin" by the way if you have to people simultnously pasing their "whatever" to the other Body it forms a loop. His surprise might have been that he realizes that it wasnt James that harry heard but LUpin.

If you haven't caught on by now, I'm saying that Lupin is James and James is LUpin with all the advantages and disadvantages of that, but now you are asking how did this happen, and how does the movie strenghten/support this idea? first to the first:)

The potters it seems had begun to doubt in the reliability of Sirius, so as an extra precaution in order to insure that One of the Potter''s lived to "tell the tale" James and Lupin Switched. This without anyone else knowing.
they couldn't switch back because Jame's body being dead could not bet switched back into.

Is the switching spell named " priori incantatem"? Well the book has a ton more clues I can't recall (you should buy it and support the good people at the Wizarding World Press-its a great book)), but that is the jist of it.

how does the movie strenghten/support this idea?

ahhh this is what I've been wanting to discuss.

The Lupin/ Lily romance discussed in this string doesn't seem very appropiate, but a James/ Lily Romance does. It sure seems like the way a widower would talk about his deceased spouse. The scoulding Harry gets for mocking the sacrifice of his parent (namely Lily), by being out and about around the castle sure seems like the fury of a husband/father and not a friend of the family towards the only one left of the ones he once loved (harry)-a friend of the dead would be more likely to look the other way at anything harry did and not try to assume a parental attitude (but maybe thats just me).

The true irony/delight (if the theory holds) is that while Harry doesn't get to go to Hogsmead because he doesnt have a parent to vouch for him, in an ironic twist this is the very thing that enables him to spend time with his parent (James/Lupin) the one thing Harry's longs for far more than Hogsmead.

ok thats it for know:)


Please excuse all the bad spelling punctuation, and bad grammar, I guess its my idea of being a Rebel (alas without a cause).
Dave







:p

-The candy scene, in the dorm (one of my favorite scenes). Ron was a lion, Neville was an elephant, Seamus was a monkey ... Animagus foreshadowing? If so, it would be rather interesting that Ron is a lion, symbol of Gryffindor. Also interesting is Harry not eating an animal candy - is this JKR's way of keeping Harry's Animagus form from us? Does it mean that Harry won't become an Animagus?


I want to comment on this. I agree that this is one of the best unexpected scenes. I think it's not necessarily "animal only" candy but something that reflects your growing persona. This could be specially true if we consider here that Harry's temper is quite Steamish in OotP (my wife mentioned this)--is there a magical animal that blows steam anyone?---. Aside from that obviuos temper thing, Neville Elephant as representing someone not necessarlily very agile but very very powerful is remarkable. Ron's being a Lion is very interesting as he has yet to fully show forth his bravery that gets him into griffindor. Then again has Hermione? WHy does she seem so much like a Ravenclaw(anyone's intelligent comments are much appreciated here:).


oh yeah the whole seer thing is also an excellent insight, props!
Dave

Wow, Don Davo--that James/Lupin thing is quite a theory! I must admit, it explains that weird Lupin/Harry scene in PoA (and I'm not in the method of thought that Lilly and Lupin had a thing at one point). This is a theory that I might like to beleive because I just HATED that Rowling had to eliminate Harry's closest relative (again!).

So would James being in Lupin's body change his patronus? Hmmm, something to think about.

My *MaYbe* List
*Note this may not be what you think....and I may go against my own self here in some but they stick out to me in my mind*

1* The Candies for sure....I am sure one of the boys will turn into one of the animals. And isn't it only proper for Ron to be a Lion maybe he will be Head Boy?

2* Herm throwing the crystal ball off the table. Maybe she has traveled ahead in time and seen one of the boy's demise?

3* Remus is the Potter's Grave Gaurdian in the woods. Don't ask.

4* Harry will steal Herm's necklace and turn back time to save his parents.

5* Herm's cat...could this be someone we know? The kitty seemed to play a large role didn't she.

6* A Mummy will be the next character that Harry will face and not in a bad way.

I like some of the ideas already mentioned about foreshadowing in Movie 3. Sleuthing is so much fun...and helps pass the time until the next book is released!

Other 'foreshadowing events' I picked up on are:

1. What I got from the conversation between Harry and Lupin on the bridge is has nothing to do with the theory of James actually being Lupin but that the characteristics Harry got from his parents; kindness, rule breaking, LOVE, etc., could be a key factor to how he defeats Voldemort. Lupin actually being James didn't come to mind because it's impossible. Why? JKR herself said Harry's parents are dead. She may not reveal much about future books, but I don't think she's ever lied to the readers. Can anyone prove me wrong?

2. Throughout the movie I kept reminding myself that JKR makes a point of being very involved in the screenwriting process. She does not allow any important details that are key to future books to be left out. One thing that was left out was the part of the scene in the Divination class where Ron jokes about seeing "Die, Ron, Die" in the tea leaves. Several rumors are going around that this is foreshadowing that Ron will die. Well, if JKR allowed it to be left out of the movies, it leaves me to believe that Ron will more than likely live to see the end of the series. (Yeah!)

3. When everyone comes back from the Shrieking Shack, Snape was not with them nor was he out cold. He comes out of the Whomping Willow after Lupin transforms into a werewolf and protects the trio from him. Hmmm...very interesting change on Cuaron's part. Snape put himself between the trio and danger. Could this be foreshadowing of a self sacrifice by Snape?

4. Wandless magic. It's speculated by many that wandless magic will play an important role when Harry and Voldemort face off because they have brother wands that cannot battle against each other. Dumbledore, a very powerful wizard, has always used wandless magic. In Movie 3, we have a new character who uses wandless magic...Lupin. Not only does he do this, but he uses his wand without speaking the spell (i.e., Hogwarts Express scene). Could this be more 'evidence' of the significance wandless magic will play in the series? Or is this evidence that Lupin is powerful wizard?

I don't think that the movies neccesarily have to use the tecninque of foreshadowing. Take DIE, RON, DIE, JKR could of used it in her books as foreshadowing, as a red herring or simply as a joke to point to the inaccuracies of Divination. Either or all are possible and as the reader it keeps us reading and enjoying the books, plus at the end ties everything together is a nice complete and collective whole.
But movies are plotted differently. There is not the time to include everything and DIE, RON, DIE is not crucial to the current plot nor, should Ron actually die (God forbid) is it neccesary for us the viewers to have seen that scene. In fact in movies is often about impact and you could argue that by including little hints, although they are the tradeback of JKR, actually lessen the impact of a death.
So I think just because some clues are left out doesnt mean they are not important, just that not do not fit in with the movie. Another example is that the maruders could be important in the future but Kloves made a decision that any HP readers would know their backstory and any nonHP readers didnt actually need to know it for this movie. After all its only because we do know it that we feel its loss.
I hope that all made sense and I just didnt write a lot without saying a lot ;)

I would like to point out the the Die-Ron-Die was Ron referring to if he saw that in his tea leaves from now on he would just chuck them in the bin. It was also in OotP just after ther Divination OWL, not PoA. So, no reflection on what may be as yet. Though I for one don't think she will kill off Ron. At least I hope not. :scared:

I think one thing in the movies that was interesting was the way that H/H was foreshadowed a bit, while in the previous movies it was almost all R/H. You may disagree with my interpretation of certain scenes, but it seems that, for example, Harry did not have to hold Hermione so close in the werewolf scene, and in the scene where Harry cried, Hermione comforting him was sweet, in a more than friends kind of way. There was, of course, the funny scene however where Ron jumps when Hermione suggests they "move closer", but is referring to the shrieking shack.

[QUOTE=DonDavo]I want to comment on this. I agree that this is one of the best unexpected scenes. I think it's not necessarily "animal only" candy but something that reflects your growing persona. This could be specially true if we consider here that Harry's temper is quite Steamish in OotP (my wife mentioned this)--is there a magical animal that blows steam anyone?---. Aside from that obviuos temper thing, Neville Elephant as representing someone not necessarlily very agile but very very powerful is remarkable. Ron's being a Lion is very interesting as he has yet to fully show forth his bravery that gets him into griffindor. Then again has Hermione? WHy does she seem so much like a Ravenclaw(anyone's intelligent comments are much appreciated here:).


- After I read this i got an idea. What if Harry didn't eat the animal candy thing because hes going to die or something so he'll never become an animagus. Yes there is a magical animal that blows steam, the dragon. I mean its more fire, but still i consider it the same thing. Somewhere in one of the books she says the hat had considered putting her in Ravenclaw, but maybe he saw something that she has yet to do that is brave.

If you haven't caught on by now, I'm saying that Lupin is James and James is LUpin with all the advantages and disadvantages of that, but now you are asking how did this happen, and how does the movie strenghten/support this idea? first to the first:)

The potters it seems had begun to doubt in the reliability of Sirius, so as an extra precaution in order to insure that One of the Potter''s lived to "tell the tale" James and Lupin Switched. This without anyone else knowing.
they couldn't switch back because Jame's body being dead could not bet switched back into.

how does the movie strenghten/support this idea?

ahhh this is what I've been wanting to discuss.

The Lupin/ Lily romance discussed in this string doesn't seem very appropiate, but a James/ Lily Romance does. It sure seems like the way a widower would talk about his deceased spouse. The scoulding Harry gets for mocking the sacrifice of his parent (namely Lily), by being out and about around the castle sure seems like the fury of a husband/father and not a friend of the family towards the only one left of the ones he once loved (harry)-a friend of the dead would be more likely to look the other way at anything harry did and not try to assume a parental attitude (but maybe thats just me).
:p

Erm Dondavo, I'm saying this in the in the nicest possible way, but I don't think so! :rotfl: The film may support this theory, at a stretch. But the books don't support it at all for me and they are canon, not the films.

The whole reason the conversation on the bridge has generated so much discussion in this thread is that it puts a slant on the Lupin/Lily/James relationship which is NOT the same as the book.

Why would such a switch have been performed? As an insurance protection for Harry? Didn't work then did it? Harry only survived because of his mother's sacrifice, how could that possibly have been planned? Would James really have left his wife and son to the mercy of an attack and gone off himself - perhaps if he was on an equally dangerous mission where he needed to be undercover, but there is no evidence of that.

If Lupin is really James in Lupin's body, after Lily died and Harry was all alone why on earth didn't he explain himself to Dumbledore then? Why did he abandon Harry to the Dursley's tender mercies? Wouldn't he have wanted to look in on him secretly as he was growing up? Harry spotted a few wizards in the early chapters of PS/SS but not one that sounds like Lupin.

Even if he couldn't have Harry live with him because of the danger of a small child growing up with a werewolf and/or because Harry needed the protection of Dumbledore's charm, what about when Harry went to Hogwarts? Why wait 2 whole years to see him? Why not tell Harry and/or Dumbledore then? What possible reason was there not to at that stage? The conversations between Harry and Lupin in the book don't read at all as a undercover-father and unknowing-son to me. Why then go another year without contacting Harry(GoF)? Why not tell Sirius of the switch once he realised Siruis was innocent? Wouldn't Sirius have noticed inconsistancies of behaviour or memories? Wouldn't any of the Order? What has he been doing for the last 15 years? What reason could possibly be more important than Harry once Voldemort had been defeted.

Isn't this all unnecessarily complicated? Is it really less likely that Lupin had a bit of a crush on Lily?! :p

It all sounds a bit too much like a soap. Are you old enough to remember Bobby-in-the-shower-suddenly-not-dead-after-all in Dallas? Wasn't that ridiculous then? Would JKR really descend to that level? I sincerely hope not or it is going to ruin the series for me!

You are going to have to come up with some pretty good arguments to convince me I am afraid! But go ahead, I 'm all ears, try me!

At the moment I don't think we can infer too much from the movies as they provide less than the books offer and no doubt some of the left out bits could be portrayed in the next two films. PoA did highlight the eye importance again, what with a close up of his blue eyes turning green and then a close up at time turner Harry's eyes when Lupin finishes the transformation then howls. Then there is the werewolf, female and baby boy on the overhead projector, now whether that has significance is still questionable though.

When the films reach OotP then I think we should be able to gain a better understanding of the seventh book as I hope the sixth book will be out by then.

I think my sister Fuchsia may be onto something with the crystal ball showing Sirius. Rowling did say in the chat the mirror may be a way for Harry to contact Sirius.

I think Lupin's comments about Lily were just a fondness and love for a deceased friend.
Nothing romantic about it. Friendship is often purer because we never replace those in our hearts that we call friends.

alright i agree that the movie will tell us about future potter books. someone remind me with an owl or something later and i will explain further, what i think. i figured i'd get this in here so possibly i'd remember to write more later, but i'm in a hurry. on another note, why is it that when i drink coffee right before work every morning, i am thoroughly convinced i will see a wizard when i leave the apartment?? every morning, especially when i have to get up at 4:30am, i walk out the door into the dark and i cry because i am always convinced i will see either sirius, or lupin. *christ*

Seeing the PoA movie the 1st time I was really too excited to pick up on any clues but the second time I managed to.

Three things in particular...

1)The obvious Lupin/Harry convo. Now James being my fav maurdarer I would hate the lupin loves lily factor or even a love triangle thing! :|..So I dont think its that(or I hope it isnt) I think this shows theres more to lily's and remus' relationship than we thought, friend wise.

2)Harry seeing Sirius is the crystal ball...Could Harry talk to Sirius in a similar way in future books?

3) ok this one no one has mentioned yet and I feel everyone may laugh at it but it really was something that made me go "hmmmmm" Hermione states, if I remember correctly, in DaDa to snape "a werewolf will only respond to the call of his own kind..."

Then we see her howl to call remus...this isnt in the book....

Yes Hermione was imitating a werewolf howl but she is in no way his "kind" could this be a forshadow???

Eh,maybe I just need some sleep lol

Hi, I'm relatively new to the boards and therefore don't know how to do the spoiler whitout thing (if anyone could tell me that would be great), so I'm giving fair warning
SPOILERS**


Does anyone think that the scene where Hogwarts is being locked down (literally) and dementors are hovering around outside seem like forshadowing? In the facts section on book 6, it says the wizarding world will really be at war. Maybe it's hinting (inadvertently) at a future chapter(s) where Hogwarts is locked down like a fortress and the dementors (with DE's) are surrounding it, trying to get in. Seems creepy enough to give chills.

Also, Cuaron said in a past interview that the placement of a cemetery on Hogwarts was going to be important. I'd have to watch the movie again, but when Remus and Harry were walking around in the forest (Remus used his cane) and they stopped by the lake, there was a small island that looked like it had some tombstones on it. Did anyone else see this?

JKR's original quote:
"I really got goose bumps when I saw a couple of those things, and I thought, people are going to look back on the film and think that those were put in deliberately as clues"

AC's original quote:
"At the same time [she asked me] not to put elements that would contradict the stuff either in her universe or that was going to happen in books five, six. In one moment I had this graveyard, and she says, 'No, that graveyard can't be there,' and I say, 'Why?' 'Because the graveyard is in this other place,' and she gives you the whole explanation of why."

I'm also new and not too familiar with the spoiler rules yet, but just in case - SOME SPOILERS AHEAD!

Although this doesn't directly relate to books 6 or 7, I thought it was interesting that they showed the horseless carriages going into Howarts. I was with a friend who hadn't read the 5th book yet, and that was something she asked me about, so perhaps it was a clue for the 5th movie for the non-HP fans?

Also, another thing that I thought was interesting was when Harry was telling Lupin about his memory (talking to his mom and dad) when they were working on the patronus charm. Harry said something like he didn't even know it was a memory or something else. I read a few other posts that suggested maybe he was thinking about the Mirror of Erised in SS, but what if this is really a hint for the future? I haven''t read SS in a while, but I don't think Harry actually spoke to the people in the Mirror (correct me if i'm wrong)...Could he maybe be imagining talking to his parents in the future, which would mean maybe through the veil or if Harry dies or something?

I'm also new and not too familiar with the spoiler rules yet, but just in case - SOME SPOILERS AHEAD!

Although this doesn't directly relate to books 6 or 7, I thought it was interesting that they showed the horseless carriages going into Howarts. I was with a friend who hadn't read the 5th book yet, and that was something she asked me about, so perhaps it was a clue for the 5th movie for the non-HP fans?

Also, another thing that I thought was interesting was when Harry was telling Lupin about his memory (talking to his mom and dad) when they were working on the patronus charm. Harry said something like he didn't even know it was a memory or something else. I read a few other posts that suggested maybe he was thinking about the Mirror of Erised in SS, but what if this is really a hint for the future? I haven''t read SS in a while, but I don't think Harry actually spoke to the people in the Mirror (correct me if i'm wrong)...Could he maybe be imagining talking to his parents in the future, which would mean maybe through the veil or if Harry dies or something?

Yeah, I thought that was weird too, how he mentioned talking to his parents but not knowing whether it was real or not. I want to go see the movie again, just to see if I missed anything.

How about all the ghosts? We saw the headless huntsmen dashing around a couple of times, but there was no sign of Nick, or any of the other house ghosts.

The chorus? All singing lines from MacBeth (a play the name of which must not be said) and carrying ... frogs?!! Again, very Macbeth and all very Scottish. :huh:

The wizard in the Leaky Cauldron who was reading a copy on Stephen Hawking's A Brief History of Time.

Birds! A murder of crows at Hagrid's Hut. White birds, black birds, even blue birds! Are these the spirits of the dead?

The Stonehenge like rocks cropping up and the constant references to Time and Astronomy.

When the Trio believes that Buchbeak has been executed, Hermione puts her arms around Ron seeking comfort. Harry puts his arms around Hermione to comfort her. A second later, Ron yelps with pain and goes after his rat, much to Hermione's frustration. :eyebrows:

Bridges on the grounds?

Molly hands Scabbers to Ron through the window of the train and tells him not to lose the rat. :huh:

The playground?

Seeing Sirius in the crystal is a good idea, but I think JKR has debunked the James in Lupin's body theory.

You are going to have to come up with some pretty good arguments to convince me I am afraid! But go ahead, I 'm all ears, try me!

Ok if you are honestly all ears here I go. I too think the books are the "canon"and not the movies. The whole idea behind this thread is that JK said that this film did foreshadow stuff she has not yet overtly written in the books and that she was surprised to see it. I'll anwer your Questions as best as I can at first, and then I will move on to give all the evidence I think there is for this theory. Before I go forward I want to say that, I am open to other possibilities; I don't hold my faith to the Hogwart's Gods based on this theory:blush: But I do think it's plausible. I also want to say that I think of myself as just opening a possibility, not as one setting down the Law. I also wnat to say that I think that all your questions are intelligent, thoughtful and introspective, and as such I am spending the time to respond to them.
First your questions:

Why would such a switch have been performed? As an insurance protection for Harry? Didn't work then did it?
me: not for harry but to insure someone would be alive for harry. (which was suucesful if my theory happens to right)

Harry only survived because of his mother's sacrifice, how could that possibly have been planned?

Maybe they never thought that Harry was in danger himself, after all they didn't know the Prophecy and all they knew was that Voldemort had it in for them (should I have said YOU know who) it was they who had "thrice defied them")

Would James really have left his wife and son to the mercy of an attack and gone off himself? He didnt leave them alone, Lupin (in James' body) was there
he was confident that Remus could protect his wife as well as he (They were all part of the original Order of the Phoenix); while they could also insure someone would be alive for harry. Not alone but in trust of his best friend.

Who says he didn't. We just don't know, DD keeps lots of stuff to himself that he doesn't tell anyone about as evidenced widely by the books.

Why did he abandon Harry to the Dursley's tender mercies?

me: I believe this is in order to keep Harry safe; further I believe the book has made it abundantly clear that DD knew he had to be there because of the old piece of magic that has thus far kept harry safe. Voldemort's followers are still around after he went down, insomuch that he is only safe there. I thought the book made that abundantly clear. Oh and it would be bad news for Lupin if everyone knew he was James don't you agree.

Wouldn't he have wanted to look in on him secretly as he was growing up? Harry spotted a few wizards in the early chapters of PS/SS but not one that sounds like Lupin.

me: Maybe he did. But as we have seen so far Remus is very good at keeping his distance from harry, as he forbids himself to touch him.

Even if he couldn't have Harry live with him because of the danger of a small child growing up with a werewolf and/or because Harry needed the protection of Dumbledore's charm, what about when Harry went to Hogwarts? Why wait 2 whole years to see him? Why not tell Harry and/or Dumbledore then? What possible reason was there not to at that stage?

me: I think you partly answer the Last Question for me, maybe he has kept a far off watch. I think DD may know, after all he seems to know about Sirius not being Guilty. The reason to stay away is out a realization that is is better and safer for Harry, Why give the kid the additional trauma of not being able to have his parent that is right there when they know he has to go back to Privet drive because of the charm.

The conversations between Harry and Lupin in the book don't read at all as a undercover-father and unknowing-son to me. Why then go another year without contacting Harry(GoF)?

Well as proven By the numerous renditions and hermenutic interpretations of anything from Shakespeare to Scripture, of course we all Read thing a bit different and get different stuff out of it. about GoF same reason keep Harry safe without the burden of additional trauma.

Why not tell Sirius of the switch once he realised Siruis was innocent?

We mostly see the HP world from Harry's view, there could be several reasons we just dont know, among which is the fact that if the theory is really the case JK Rowling is save it for a bit while she gives us clues about it. maybe he told someone maybe he didn't we don't know. All we have is clues.

Wouldn't Sirius have noticed inconsistancies of behaviour or memories? Wouldn't any of the Order? What has he been doing for the last 15 years?

Who knows, maybe yes maybe no, maybe they know and dont tell Harry, but James knew Lupin well and you could know someones behaviors and fears very well if you their body, specially after experiencing the werewolf thing yourself, to include the Wizarding outcast status given to such. Like the saying goes spend a day in someone else's shoes.... and by the way forget the theory for a second- what has Lupin been doing for the last 15 years , that could say anything either way about the theory.

What reason could possibly be more important than Harry once Voldemort had been defeted.

DD thinks harry need to be safe, nuff said on that.

Isn't this all unnecessarily complicated? Is it really less likely that Lupin had a bit of a crush on Lily?!

maybe, maybe not. but thats the whole nature of theories, but really isn't the whole HP Septology mystery complicated- if it wasn't we wouldn't talk so much about it I mean no one figured out what book five was gonna do before it came out. Complicated= Interesting= I love HP.

It all sounds a bit too much like a soap. Are you old enough to remember Bobby-in-the-shower-suddenly-not-dead-after-all in Dallas? Wasn't that ridiculous then? Would JKR really descend to that level? I sincerely hope not or it is going to ruin the series for me!

Hopefully after I set forth my argument is won't seem like a stoop or descent, but as rather intelligent- She said that Lily and James are Dead for sure but that could just be in reference to who it seems was killed by Voldemort. I mean wouldn't it ruin it to say well James is actually alive. think that was meant to adress ac oncern about them faking dead and being secretely in hiding as in no one was really killed. Notice that the bulk of the work goes into highlighting Lily's death not James'

Well I have to stop now and go take care of the kiddos maybe watch some HP. I'll have to save my evidence for a future post. (Coming Soon)

Dave.




:p :blush:

This is old mugglenet theory. JKR has said we won't see James or Lily alive. And the echo of James came out of Voldemort's wand in the GoF graveyard scene.
But:
James in Lupin's Body ([URL=http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=6349&page=1&pp=30&highlight=James)

If anything I think the speech about Lily suggests that all the marauders were in love with Lily. Why was Sirius unaware of the girl who looked at him hopefully after the exam? Why did JKR allow this Lupin speech into the PoA movie? Why did Voldemort tell Harry Lily didn't have to die? Had Wormtail asked for her to be spared? It's been widely discussed that even Snape was in love with Lily.

But Lily loved James.

The only interesting thing i've seen is that cemitery thing that Alfonso wanted to put behind the execution scene and JK didn't let him because she already does have a place to a cemitery and it was not there where Alfonso wanted to put it!
But I don't see anything important to be taken from this!
Only thay maybe we will have the explanation for the question "Where are Lily and James bodies???"

I'm too lazy to read this entire thread, but here;

Has anyone else noticed how Neville's Gran's RED HANDBAG is mentioned in PoA, in both the book AND in the movie, with a certain emphasis? I believe that somehow thisi s important, it can't just have been kept in for comedic value, it's not really that funny. Lupin knew, Nev mentioned it in the movie (the ONLY piece of clothing/accesory the audience is told, in fact!) and so, it must be one of those tiny things that are important.

Red is a Gryffindor color. She also has a vulture on her hat. What is a vulture?


........ A death eater. ;)

But it does have a different connotation in Egyptian mythology.

Whizbang, I just have to say that that is an awesome, excellent list of portentious images.

Is it really "a murder of crows"? Yikes that's interesting.

Side note about the birds -- they are everywhere! -- during Harry and Hermione's talk about his dad, was the forest emptied of birds ... or bats?

3. Dumbledore's comment in the great hall, on the night of Sirius' attack on the Fat Lady, about dreams. I only saw the film once, so I don't have the exact quote, but it was about dreams being a sort of personal space, and I was thinking about the mental connection between Harry and Voldemort, and how Harry has had his view of Voldie's actions while he, Harry has been asleep. What about Voldemort's dreams? I expect that we will see some dream interactions between Harry and Voldemort.

Oooh great spot, Phoenixsong! I couldn't figure what to make of that scene, though it seemed highly important. The whole Harry-Voldemort-dreams thing never even popped into my head! What does this all mean? Voldemort invading Harry's personal space ... something to ponder!


Another thought occured to me today, and I wanted to add to my previous post:

- Something unnerving, which I actually hope doesn't come true, came about after Harry overheard McGonagall, Rosmerta, and Fudge in the Hog's Head, and Hermione and Ron came to comfort him. Only Hermione goes to him, while Ron hangs back on the side. Just as Harry's yelling "HE BETRAYED HIS FRIENDS!" they pan out to a wide shot, with Harry and Hermione on one side of the screen and Ron on the other. I literally gasped, because I was struck with the thought that this might be foreshadowing of Ron (on one side) betraying Harry (on the other). It might just have been a coincidence, but this film is so dense that I can't be sure.

This whole thing upset me so much, but I couldn't stop thinking about it. Another scene that kind of supports this whole Ron-as-traitor thing was the Shreiking Shack scene, when Lupin and Sirius point to Ron and say something to the effect of "there's the traitor!" Obviously, they were referring to Pettigrew, but it looks as if they're pointing to Ron - even Ron thinks so. It's not just the dialogue in this scene that made me think, but again, the staging: Lupin and Sirius are standing together, Harry and Hermione are standing together, and Ron once again is on his own ... with everyone staring at him.

I really hope that Ron doesn't become the traitor, as he's one of my favorite characters, and I happen to be a huge fan of the One-Big-Happy-Weasley-Family theory, but the more I think about it, the more it bugs me!

DonDavo, I would check out that link that whizbang121 so kindly provided. The whole Lupin-as-James thing has been discussed in detail. My two cents, however, is that I think it's highly unlikely, despite the well-researched advice you've provided. Fact is, JKR's told us that we'll never see a live James (or Lily, for that matter). Plus, I like to think that Lupin can just care for Harry - he doesn't have to be his parent to love him, like Sirius did.

By the way, :welcome: to all you new people! Always glad to meet new Potter-files!

ok good enough I wasn't aware, out of the loop I guess:)

I did notice one interesting thing (aside from those already discussed) in POA that I haven't seen mentioned yet--please forgive me if I've missed it somewhere.
Mini Spoiler for those who haven't seen movie yet*******

Why was the "Hedwig showing up at the Leaky Cauldron thing" included-complete with mention of how smart she is? In the books, Harry doesn't take her with him from Privet Drive because she's already left for the Weasley's as part of the Hogsmeade agreement with Dursley, etc, etc. In the movie this doesn't happen, she's still at Privet when Harry runs away. He just forgets her. Maybe I'm overanalyzing but it seemed kinda strange.

wow ravenclaw02, that makes sense in a creepy way... no offense (because noting THAT is just brilliant), but I hope you've only read in on it too much--because I'm a huge Ron fan too and the thought of him betraying harry is awfully horrid.

Then again, JK has pointed out that Ron is a lot like her best childhood friend, Sean Harris, and has now given in to the fact that the Weasley is the character representation of her good pal. I don't think she'll make Ron betray Harry because that would take down the entire essence (which she has worked hard in establishing) of Harry's friendship with him (not to mention it would be an insult to Sean) and contradict her own words--that Ron's best traits are his good heart and his immense loyalty.

anyway, most of you have already mentioned the "may-be-clues" I've spotted (the Ron being a seer thing, the crow that perched on top of fudge's head, the significance of that male-bonding scene between the Gryffindor boys, snape protecting the trio) but here are some more... (honestly, I don't think they really mean anything, I'm over analyzing stuff, but just in case):

*the old question: will harry die? In the movie, harry gets pecked by a crow... i wonder--> if being pecked by "death" (which is what a crow represents) means death itself or harry will have a brush with deat--only the latter has been happening for the past 5 books so that's no clue there

*what's with the shoe? One of the scenes that I found irrelevant to the whole film, atlhough it was highly amusing, was that one with the monster book of monsters--if you remember, harry removed one of his shoes and used it as bait to trap and capture the violent book. Could it be a hint that harry will have to deliberately sacrifice something OR someone to be able to defeat voldemort?

*i've always claimed that sirius will definitely not come back. but there's that bit whe sirius' soul gets sucked out and after the dementors are driven away, he gets his soul back. So I'm having thoughts here that harry's god father, MAY come back one way or another--I don't know exactly how JK would do that without making the book soap-opera-ish--but just maybe. While I'm on Sirius' death, will someone please make it clear to me what exact spell hit him? As I remember, the book did not say what Bellatrix used and that at that time, red jets of light were shooting out from the witch's wand...so it couldn't have been the killing curse...

er...anyway that's my 2 cents

Just a thought re the films - not re JKR's inadvertent clues but a couple of bits left in that shouldn't be all that important really but if they're there then they must mean something.

Percy as a character as been reduced massively in the films but in COS he was loitering around the Slytherin Common Room. Why - we don't know but they didn't leave that out.

Also why make sure no-one missed that Scabbers was Percy's rat. Not Ron's rat - Percy's. Ron stated this very clearly in the hospital scene near the end of the POA film. Must be important then.

I think Percy is just going from bad to worse - he was compared to Tom Riddle in COS book and also on JKR website he given the same award that Ron polished belonging to Tom Riddle.

Is it really "a murder of crows"? Yikes that's interesting. Odd, but true. A group of crows is called a "murder." :huh:

Side note about the birds -- they are everywhere! -- during Harry and Hermione's talk about his dad, was the forest emptied of birds ... or bats?
Wow! I think they were bats. Wonder what that means. I always associate bats with Snape, but he was busy at that time.;)

Unless, if it's a "Cuaron intuition:", in the coming war Vampires will come to Harry's and Hermione's aid ..... :lol:

yeah. It's not that I have too much spare time so much as I'm ignoring my grandad's medicare forms. :scared: The truly scary stuff.

what's with the shoe? One of the scenes that I found irrelevant to the whole film, atlhough it was highly amusing, was that one with the monster book of monsters--if you remember, harry removed one of his shoes and used it as bait to trap and capture the violent book. Could it be a hint that harry will have to deliberately sacrifice something OR someone to be able to defeat voldemort? Interesting that you mention this right after observations about Ron. Ron sacrificed himself in the chessgame. Harry sacrificed a sock to set Dobby free. Elements of sacrifice ..........
I don't think Ron will be a traitor, but for many reasons, I don't think he will survive the series.:( :upset:

i think that if lupin liked lily as much as it suggests in the film it would have been mentioned in the books. i personally didnt like the film because it missed out sooooo much, the book was better. :P

Before reading those interviews, I would have said no we can not find clues in the movies. But now Jo has hinted that in both cos and poa movies there are clues. So maybe if we are overanalyzing the movies like we do the books we can find these clues.

However, there are too many things that are added in to throw us off. For example, in cos, when they are in the bookstore, Malfoy is looking at a book and he rips a page out of the book looks at it and stuffs it in his pocket before going to insult Harry and co. When I saw this, I wanted to know what that page was and thought maybe it was important. But that part is not in the book, so what gives?

I did like the movie very much, but I do think that there were some major flaws.

1. Re: Lupin/Lilly - I think that scene caused great confusion, not so much by the words that were written in the script but because of the way Thewlis decided to play the scene. Now I might be oversensitive because Lupin is one of my favorite characters, but I don't think Thewlis has Lupin's character right. When you read the books the most striking thing about Lupin is how composed, compassionate and kind he is. You see that in the book the minute he tasks Neville to face his fears. By the way he approaches it, (telling Snape he's choosing Neville to be an "example" for the class and that he's sure Neville will be good at it ) he attempts to repair the damage Snape does to Neville and give him the confidence he needs to confront the task. In the movie they don't show the Snape part, but Thewlis could have been more obviously comforting and supportive to Neville as he gave him the task. I think if Thewlis understood the character the way he (seems to me to be) in the book, the dialogue on the bridge would have come off in a "dear friend" sort of way rather than the "I lost the love of my life" way it appeared to be in the movie. Also in the book Lupin's regard, respect, gratefulness and genuine love for his friends James and Sirius is so clear, it's impossible to think of him kind of "bad mouthing" James because he was so much in love with Lilly himself. In other words, he could think of alot kinder things to say about James that "he had a gift for trouble." But since those were the scripted words, they should have been said with great fondness rather than an almost negative tone. The way Thewlis played this scene it was as if he were jealous of James. And the way Lupin is written in the books, his appreciation for the people who elect to be in his life was so great he'd never begrudge or "covet" the goods things that happen for them.

2. Ron. This is my constant gripe about Kloves. After film 1 Kloves completely stripped Ron of any characteristics other than fear or sarcasm. He routinely assigns Ron's lines to other characters, usually Hermione but others as well. In this instance Kloves' misuse results in a misleading characterization.

In the book it is Ron, not Hermnione, who stands up in the shrieking shack and yells:

"If you want want to kill Harry, you'll have to kill us too! he said fiercely, though the effort of standing upright was draining him of stll more color, and he swayed slightly as he spoke." (p 339 US paperback)

This reassignation of Ron's lines to others gives people the impression that Ron's just a weak, incompetent, and even jealous jerk. But Ron is a true and loyal friend - even if he does go into a bit of foolishness in book 4 he soon realizes what a dope hs is and goes about setting the record straight. But there is no reason to question Ron's true loyalties. He stands by Harry in book 5 even when Harry acts like a complete idiot to Ron and Hermione.

Foreshadowing? - I tend to agree with an earlier observation on this thread. I don't think the shock JKR experienced was due to anything in the written text. I think those things must have come from the visual storytelling aspects such as scene elements, direction, sets etc.

I did, however, notice a couple of things that made me wonder - for instance the reflections of Harry's face - in the train window (what was that morph?), in the water, in the clock tower window and I think there were others.

Also when Sirius and Harry pass out at the lake - their 2 bodies form a kind of symbol. - I don't know which one.

I think the playground will definitely be something that we'll hear more about - also the stone ruins and the mechanical instruments

ps I haven't been able to locate in the book where they point to Ron and say "traitor" and Ron responds to that. The only thing I can find is Ron asking why they want his rat

Hi, first post, nice to be here.

In other threads I have read explanations for some of the characters names, such as Regulus, Sirius. When I started to try to think what JKR was so surprised at seeing in the POA film, the orrery (that's the room-sized model of the planets and stars you see in the bit where Lupin is trying to teach Harry to produce his Patronus) was the most interesting thing.

I thought at first that it was a sort of gee-wiz-that's-neat backdrop, but it's more than that. As many have said, we never have seen or heard much about Astronomy, but the Centaurs practice it, and the orrery was a special device in history to show the relative movement of the planets and moons. I havn't checked the official JKR website at night, but I read elsewhere that the window in the ? room to the left of the locked door shows particular constellations at night. I reckon it's a safe bet we'll read more about the heavens and what they foretell in Book Six.

Why the orrery, Astronomy? We've never seen Professor Sinestra (spelling?) so perhaps this character will be finally revealed.

Did you realize that when hermione and Harry get buckbeak away from Hagrid's, Dumbledore is telling Macnair and Fudge some story about strawberries, just so Harry and Hermione can flee with buckbeak. he also wants to sign the paper in Hagrids hut with his whole name (which is a very long name lol).
I believe that Dumbledore knew before that Harry and Hermione were going to rescue Sirius and Buckbeak. Perhaps he used a timeturner to go into the future. I'm not sure, but I believe this might be important.....

AND

:welcome: to the forums AndreasMycaelis :) I hope you'll enjoy it here

JK said that alfonzo hinted to some things that will be in future books. Anyone pick up on what she was talking about. for example, I think Lupin had affection for Lily Potter, or a crush. but I am sure there are more hints than that. support your arguments.

I will support my argument by showing the fact that there is already a thread covering this subject here.
Can the movies help us determine what's important for Books Six and Seven? (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=14935)

Hello alter ego and :welcome: to the forums.

If you would do a search (http://www.cosforums.com/search.php?) (click on the link) before you start a new thread you could avoid having your threads closed because they duplicate existing threads.
Duplicate threads are closed then deleted and you lose any post count in the deleted thread.
Become familiar with the way the search function works and it becomes easy to find a number of threads on your subject.
I highly recommend using the Advanced Search function and using single key words for each search. Multiple searches using different key words help too. Restricting the search to ‘titles only’ narrows the choices as well.

If you are not sure about something, do not be afraid to ask a moderator. They are all really very nice people.

Hope this has been helpful and Happy Posting.

dude that thread is a year old and no one has commented after seeing the third movie.
rather than shift through a ton of post to get to comments about POA, why not let this thread live.

Because it is still the same subject. There is nothing wrong with reviving a thread that has been idle.
If new threads were always allowed because a thread had been idle for a time, these boards would collapse and cease to exist, simply because of the fact that everyone would argue that their post warranted a new thread because the others on the same subject were "old".

Hi, first post, nice to be here.

Why the orrery, Astronomy? We've never seen Professor Sinestra (spelling?) so perhaps this character will be finally revealed.
:welcome: Interestingly, that item, or something similar was in a shop in Diagon Alley in the book. Harry had considered that if he purchased it, he would never have to take another astronomy class, but decided to save his money. All in all there were many many visual references to time and it's relationship to astronomy in the movie. More I think than in the books. I'd love to meet Prof Sinistra.

For anyone interested in discussing the new movie as a whole rather than just looking possible clues to future books, this discussion is going on
here. (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?p=967589#post967589)

here is another one i thought might be a tell tale sign of whats to come. When Sirius was talking to Harry before he left and saying that "your loved ones are always with in here (he points to harry's heart)."
Maybe its an indicatior of how Harry will contact the dead, weather it be sirius or his parents.

yeah i was thinking the whole speech sirius gave to harry was hinted at the 5th book and how sirius dies:(...and also lupin, what WAS that about? odd...and then the whole ron and hermione thing, yeah they're gonna hook up, but i kinda wish they wouldnt cause then harry would be the 3rd wheel, poor harry:(

I think what Sirius said about 'the first time I walked through those doors' might be a clue, but then it also might've just been drawing parellels between him and Harry.

The whole end of poa with Sirius was soooo sad to me because we know what happens in ootp.
Sirius' speech was very foreshadowing to what happens to him. I wonder if that was done on purpose. I am sure it was and it only makes it sadder.

Why would they make Sirius say to Hermione that she really is the cleverest witch in her year? How would he know?

Part of Sirius parting speech was originally said by Dumbledore at the end of .... I think it's PS/SS. I don't think that JKR would be surprised by anything in the script. But in the interview linked above, she said there was stuff in the movie that hinted at books six and seven. Anyone notice anything that might hint at what she means?

hi, first i'd like to say that i liked both the book and movie of prisoner of azkaban, (the book better buy hey). someone said that in the movie it semt like dumbledore was distracting macnair and fudge, so he knew that harry and hermione were going to time travel, and i def agree. but, in the book i also felt like dumbledore knew that buckbeak was going to escape, or at least was expecting it, i dunno why, but thats how it semt to me. also, i thought it was wierd that they added all the bunk in about james and lily esp, when in the book they dont mention anything at all about that. but, if it was really off base, then i have to think jkr wouldn't allow it to be in the movie. someone said that the dude who plays lupin was really wrong about how he acted it out, but once again, if jkr felt it was really wrong, then i think she would ask them to shoot the scene again. but, then again, i dunno how much control jkr has over the movie, and bc she semt so surprised about a hint in the movie makes me wonder just how much control she has. ANYWAY, this was a really long post, sorry bout that, but please respond!

This should shed light on the whole Lupin/harry conversation on the bridge I guess this is the end of that discussion:

Lupin in Love with Lily?

The Baltimore Sun has a new interview with PoA screenplay writer Steve Kloves. Speaking about Professor Lupin, whom Steve Kloves describes as " Harry's extended family", the article continues:

Kloves says that when he first met Rowling, he told her he intuited that Lily "was quite special" and that James "was complicated." And in the bridge scene, Lupin "illuminates Harry about his mother - the most wonderful thing about her was that she was understanding toward Lupin at a time few were. She saw something special about him when others, including himself, couldn't." Kloves admits, "I think he was in love with her in many ways."

well that does it:)