Aunt Petunia - a squib?

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timmay
October 25th, 2002, 7:45 am
ok Why does everyone asume that Lily was a mud blood? It has never been said that her parants were not wizards; Aunt petunia could be a squib.

SiriusBlack
October 25th, 2002, 11:21 am
I think this has been mentioned before in many other threads, but I think she was a muggle(don't say mudblood, it's rude). It's obvious. Because her parents were sooo happy that she was going to Hogwarts and be a witch, and all that. Anyways, I'm not sre but I think I've read quite a lot of clues that suggest this, because if Petunia was a squib, she would not want to stay away from all that wierd stuff, she'd like to be a part of it. But she can't stand the thought, if she were a squib before, that means she was a part of the wierd stuff.

timmay
October 25th, 2002, 1:30 pm
jellous siblings , fair enough i havnt seen any other posts, but im a stubborn bugger and ill stick with my first thought untill proven wrong.
is petunia the oldest daughter? if she is a squib then there parents would be extremly happy tht lilly got into hogwarts. perhaps only one of the parents was a wizard and the other a muggle.

asuming these things, tht leaves open the oppertunity for harry to have wizarding genes comming from another direction.(could he be related to voldemorte?)
petunia being a squib would xplain y she despises harry so much(look at filch)

how did harry's grandparents die??
i thought wizards live for a long time even if lilly and petunias parents wer muggles thyr not all tht old so y are thy not still allive

groovypokie
October 25th, 2002, 3:40 pm
Well Petunia could be a squib. Instead of wanting to be with wizards she might not want to because she was never a witch and her sister was. This might make her remember childhood memories. Was James full blood or what? It seems like we know more about Lily's family then James'. We know why Petunia dislikes wizards and witches but why does Vernon?

Buckeyepotterfan
October 25th, 2002, 4:16 pm
I'm pretty sure that when Harry is talking to Tom Riddle in the Chamber of Secrets he says something like "My mother died trying to save me...My common MUGGLE-BORN mother" (sorry don't have the book with me so I can't get an exact quote) That makes me think that both parents would have had to be muggles, so Petunia couldn't be a squib.
You might check, but I'm pretty sure I read that in ONE of the books.

Katze
October 25th, 2002, 5:09 pm
Harry does say that his mother was Muggle-born, but that's because that's what he was told. He was also told that his parents died in a car crash.

I, personally, think that Petunia is a squib. IT's just a feeling, which could be wrong, but I think that the amount of venom that comes from Petunia towards the wizarding world goes beyond just her sister being a witch. I think that Petunia is the oldest, and because she was non-magical (her name wouldn't have been written down in the book - so her parents could've found out) her parents decided to raise her in the muggle world.

Here's something to ponder. Why would the Evans be so proud to have a witch in the family? Not just excited or happy, but proud.

Take for instance - you come from a long line of doctors, and one of your children just doesn't have the knack for it. Sort of sad since it "runs in the family". Then you get another child who does become a doctor. Wouldn't you be proud that your child is carrying on your legacy?

I think the Evans were "proud" to have a witch in the family because they've had experience with the wizarding world before the kids came along. Petunia being a hoity toity sort of woman and want the best of everything and be the best of everything would want nothing to do with that magic filth, and ultimately sign it off as abnormal - because she simply cannot be a part of it.

There's also the mention from Rowling that someone will do magic late in life in desparate circumstances. I do think this will be Petunia.

JoFaye
October 25th, 2002, 5:18 pm
I think when J.K. said we would be surprised at what the
Dursleys brought with them into the next book, it could
quite possibly be something along this line.

Although, Buckeyepotterfan is correct about the "muggle
born mother" line.

The Oracle
October 25th, 2002, 5:23 pm
JKR has said in interviews that Harry is a half-blood and its an integral part of the story (or so to come.) Meaning his mom and dad did go to Hogwarts, but Lilly's family is muggle. I'll have to find where she said that and get back to you.

In regards to why they were proud, they could have some family that are wizards, just not them. Aunts, uncles, grandparents, etc. Maybe it skips generations in the family. Both my parents have brown eyes, but I have blue. My grandfather is the one with blue eyes, go figure.

Katze
October 25th, 2002, 5:34 pm
Originally posted by The Oracle
JKR has said in interviews that Harry is a half-blood and its an integral part of the story (or so to come.) Meaning his mom and dad did go to Hogwarts, but Lilly's family is muggle. I'll have to find where she said that and get back to you.

In regards to why they were proud, they could have some family that are wizards, just not them. Aunts, uncles, grandparents, etc. Maybe it skips generations in the family. Both my parents have brown eyes, but I have blue. My grandfather is the one with blue eyes, go figure.

Ok ok...so my theory is going down the flames. I found the interview you are speaking of, and you can read it here. (http://www.geocities.com/aberforths_goat/Fall_2000_BBC_Newsround.htm)

It says:
Book Four explores several themes - some we've seen before like prejudice in Chamber of Secrets. We see more of that with foreign students and people with different parentage. Is that something you've been wanting to explore?

From the beginning of Philosopher's Stone, prejudice is a very strong theme. It is plausible that Harry enters the world wide-eyed: everything will be wonderful and it's the sort of place where injustices don't happen. Then he finds out that it does happen and it's a shock to him. He finds out that he is a half-blood: to a wizard like Lucius Malfoy, he will never be a true wizard, because his mother was of Muggle parentage. It's a very important theme.

Good point about "other family" being wizards. It could be that the Evans were Muggles, but I still think they had some sort of experience with the wizarding world outside of Lily.

Emerson
October 25th, 2002, 6:21 pm
Originally posted by Katze
From the beginning of Philosopher's Stone, prejudice is a very strong theme. It is plausible that Harry enters the world wide-eyed: everything will be wonderful and it's the sort of place where injustices don't happen. Then he finds out that it does happen and it's a shock to him. He finds out that he is a half-blood: to a wizard like Lucius Malfoy, he will never be a true wizard, because his mother was of Muggle parentage. It's a very important theme.
That really doesn't make any sense. The definition of half blood is a wizard/which having one muggle parent and one magical parent. Lily being a muggle-born would make Harry a......3/4 blood??

Both of Harry's parents are wizards, so that makes him a pure-blood.


I'm not sure what I believe in terms of Petunia being a squid. At first I thought 'no way' but then Katze's theory does make sense. :youwhat:

JoFaye
October 25th, 2002, 6:28 pm
It really is a very interesting theory.

Katze
October 25th, 2002, 6:47 pm
Originally posted by Emerson
That really doesn't make any sense. The definition of half blood is a wizard/which having one muggle parent and one magical parent. Lily being a muggle-born would make Harry a......3/4 blood??

Both of Harry's parents are wizards, so that makes him a pure-blood.


I'm not sure what I believe in terms of Petunia being a squid. At first I thought 'no way' but then Katze's theory does make sense. :youwhat:

See - as far as I can tell, Harry is actually a 1/4 muggle / 3/4 wizard if the Evans were muggles. Lily or James would have to be a Muggle for Harry to be a half-blood.

If it only takes one generation of wizard parents to make a pure-blood, then Harry is a pure-blood. However, I remember reading somewhere in just general genealogy that it takes 7 generations for someone to be pure for anything. I'm not sure how Rowling is calculating this since she considers Harry a half-blood.

Interesting...I had completely forgotten about this.

Elangomatt
October 25th, 2002, 11:15 pm
I have always thoguht and still do think that petunia is a squib, although I am not sure how to take Rowling's statement above. Would Harry still be considered non pure-blood if just one of his grandparents was a muggle.

Something else we have not considered much is what if the evans are pure blood and James Potter was the muggle born?

timmay
October 26th, 2002, 5:25 am
What if petunia realy is a whitch and her whole loathing vibe is just a cover?? perhaps she feel in love with old vernon and turned her back on the wizarding world to be with him?
dumbildore said tht there was more gaurding harry than he or any1 else realized?
but all this genetic stuff is getting away frm the point.as long as ur magic ur magical
who gives a #$%^ what percentage u are.

faubert
October 26th, 2002, 6:25 am
We are all assuming that Petunia is the squib. But what its not Petunia but VERNON.

Its very possible that he comes from a magical family. But neither he or his sister Marge had magical ablaities.

In the books Vernon has a strong reaction to magic. He calls Dumbledore a crackpot old fool.

One question I have always had. With Petunia'a attitute toward magic wouldn't she keep it secret from Vernon.

In the first part of PS Vernon knew everything about Harry and his parents world even before Harry arrived.

To me Petunia is the type of person who would be afraid to tell anyone including Vernon.

My therory he grew up in a wizard family. He and MArge could be the only ones who never developed magic. He could of meet Petunia though Lily. But falls in love wiht Petunia who shares his hate for the world of magic.

They both marry and break away from that world only seeing Marge who shares their view.

It would also give another reason why Harry didn't get into trouble for blowing up Marge in POA. I know that Fudge says that they did a memory charm on Marge but he could of lied because its important to keep Vernons connection to magic secret.

In book 5 we could find out that Vernon could be the reason whyt Harry is so safe at the Dursley's. He could be performing magic without knowing it.

dantares
October 26th, 2002, 7:21 pm
My theory is that Petunia is jealous of Lily. Their parents seem to like Lily more than her. And that's why she 'hates' her. I think the truth is that Petunia wants to learn magic too but does not have the chance because she did not recieved the letter from Hogwarts. I think she had some magical powers but was never able to show them because of her she thinks that she hates magic. It all runs in the blood, if Lily knows magic, Petunia should know magic 2 (just like Collin and his bro). Thus, Dudley will be the one to learn magic in book 5. I think Dursleys had powerful magic of their own and that's why Harry is so protected. I don't think Figgs is powerful enough to tackle the Death Eaters.

JoFaye
October 26th, 2002, 7:25 pm
Very interesting theory. Seems rational and
possible to me.

Thayet
October 26th, 2002, 7:29 pm
Because its been said that Lily was muggleborn, and she was a good witch in the books before. Have a read and you'll see ;)

dantares
October 26th, 2002, 8:06 pm
I have another theory. Both Vernon and Petunia are Harry's secret keeper. It is not Figgs. They are Harry's best secret keeeper because they never like to admit his presence. They choose to ignore him completely and would jump when the 'M' word is mentioned. Figgs is just there to make sure that they don't anyone about Harry. If they did, Figgs would personally brings Harry to someone safe.

JoFaye
October 26th, 2002, 8:11 pm
Another interesting theory, Dantares.

Qeomash
October 26th, 2002, 9:16 pm
Originally posted by dantares
I have another theory. Both Vernon and Petunia are Harry's secret keeper. It is not Figgs.

The Dursleys have no more magic in their blood than a rock. They are perfectly normal, thank you very much. They don't want ANYTHING to do with magic, espeically magic that would require them to be involved.

JoFaye
October 26th, 2002, 9:22 pm
Originally posted by Qeomash
The Dursleys have no more magic in their blood than a rock. They are perfectly normal, thank you very much. They don't want ANYTHING to do with magic, espeically magic that would require them to be involved.

I can just hear the Dursleys saying that! Qeomash you
must be channeling.

Katze
October 26th, 2002, 11:22 pm
Originally posted by dantares
I have another theory. Both Vernon and Petunia are Harry's secret keeper. It is not Figgs. They are Harry's best secret keeeper because they never like to admit his presence. They choose to ignore him completely and would jump when the 'M' word is mentioned. Figgs is just there to make sure that they don't anyone about Harry. If they did, Figgs would personally brings Harry to someone safe.

I'm not sure why Harry is safe with the Dursley's, but Harry doesn't have a secret keeper.

Here's the definition of the Fidelius Charm from the Lexicon:
Fidelius Charm (fih-DAY-lee-us)

"fidelis" L. trusty, faithful

Complex and powerful charm that hides a person or persons completely; their location is known only to their designated "Secret Keeper."

Example: * Used to try to protect Lily and James Potter from Voldemort. "An immensely complex spell involving the magical concealment of a secret inside a single, living soul. The information is hidden inside the chosen person, or Secret-Keeper, and is henceforth impossible to find -- unless, of course, the Secret-Keeper chooses to divulge it. As long as the Secret-Keeper refused to speak, You-Know-Who could search the village where Lily and James were staying for years and never find them, not even if he had his nose pressed against their sitting room window!" Unfortunately, Peter Pettigrew was chosen as Secret-Keeper, and he betrayed James and Lily.

I put in bold letters the part of the Fidelius charm I wanted to emphasize. Too many people know where Harry lives outside of Hogwarts. Hagrid, McGonagall, Sirius, The Weasleys, Hermione, Dumbledore, Miss Figg, Aunt Marge, etc...

The Secret Keeper would be the only person who would know where Harry lives, and anyone looking for him wouldn't even be able to see him, if he were standing right in front of them. But he is easily found - as we found out in the second book when Ron and the twins rescued him. So I don't think Harry has a Secret Keeper.

But...there is some sort of magic protecting him. Voldemort said there was some sort of "ancient magic" protecting him while he's in his relations care. I hope Rowling gives us more information about the ancient magic in future books. Dumbledore has a few tricks up his sleeve I believe.

meghan_tatsu
October 27th, 2002, 3:43 am
i always thought that part of the charm ment that only the person you wanted to hide from couldn't see you. i don't know though, it would be more interesting to find out about some other form of ancient magic that was keeping harry safe.

Fuchsia
October 27th, 2002, 3:53 am
Vernon is just a hypocritical and judgemental guy. I doubt he knew about magic until Petunia told him.

I do think it might be possible someone in the Evans family might possess abilities but noone in her immediate family.
The same could be possible with Hermione.

JoFaye
October 28th, 2002, 7:23 pm
Vernon lives with so much fear. It must be horrible to be him.

Thayet
October 28th, 2002, 7:37 pm
But if he was nicer he wouldn't have to live with the fear.

JoFaye
October 28th, 2002, 7:47 pm
You are soooooooooo right. One of things I am most
looking forward to finding out is why they took Harry
when they felt as they did.

Katze
October 28th, 2002, 8:51 pm
Originally posted by JoFaye
You are soooooooooo right. One of things I am most
looking forward to finding out is why they took Harry
when they felt as they did.

I'm hoping that we'll eventually find out what Dumbledore said int he letter that he left with Harry on the doorstep. I think there's something in that letter that made the Dursely's take Harry. Otherwise...why not put him in an orphange?

JoFaye
October 28th, 2002, 9:08 pm
I absolutely agree, and I have been waiting for the answer
to this since the 2cnd book. (When I read the first one I
didn't realize it was going to be a series.) I want to know
and I want to know right now.

Sam
October 28th, 2002, 10:40 pm
Originally posted by Buckeyepotterfan
I'm pretty sure that when Harry is talking to Tom Riddle in the Chamber of Secrets he says something like "My mother died trying to save me...My common MUGGLE-BORN mother" (sorry don't have the book with me so I can't get an exact quote) That makes me think that both parents would have had to be muggles, so Petunia couldn't be a squib.
You might check, but I'm pretty sure I read that in ONE of the books.

I think you're right.
Petunia doesn't seem like she has the type of personality that would allow her to quit trying to be a witch at any cost. She seems like the type of person who would have worked and worked just to earn some credit.
I don't think that she would have allowed herself to become a true muggle if she was around witches and wizards all of the time while growing up.

zebo
November 2nd, 2002, 12:58 am
I've read somewhere that Rowling has said that someone "old" will learn the art of magic, or at least get magic skills. This could be either Filch, Vernon or Petunia.. or someone else of course, but there aren't too many squibs/muggles you get to know in the books..

Cat
November 2nd, 2002, 2:54 am
Originally posted by zebo
I've read somewhere that Rowling has said that someone "old" will learn the art of magic, or at least get magic skills.

Here's what was said.

Will there be, or have there been, any "late blooming" students in the school who come into their magic potential as adults, rather than as children?
... In my books, magic almost always shows itself in a person before age 11; however, there is a character who does manage in desperate circumstances to do magic quite late in life, but that is very rare in the world I am writing about.
- Barnes & Noble chat, 1999.

You know, it's the 'desperate circumstances' that intrigue me!

dantares
November 2nd, 2002, 7:28 am
Well, I did it's the desperate suitation is that Peter tries to kills Harry together with the Dursley. Petunia managed to do some powerful magic and drives Peter away (something like making Peter files 50 ft without wand just like Neville bouncing off the mountain). It was then she will realised that she is the same as her sister, a freak - thank you very much!

SiriusBlack
November 2nd, 2002, 2:32 pm
That's impossible. Where did you get that. There's no written proof. She doesn't give a dam* about Harry. And if she was a squib, she wouldn't be able to do magic. Even without a wand. There's too much proof in the idea that Petunia is not a squib.

hedwig
November 4th, 2002, 6:46 pm
I really dont think that aunt p had anything to do with the magic world, maybe thats why she is so angry cos she didnt get into hogwarts and her sis got all the attention, and if she did have anythin to do with the magic world then she wouldn't be as afraid of and horrible to Harry :angel:

Puffskein
November 10th, 2002, 9:33 pm
Petunia's comment about "As if [her and Lily's parents] were proud to have a witch in the family" tells me that Lily was the only witch in the immediate family at least. Therefore Petunia is a true Muggle. But why were their parents so excited about Lily being a witch? We really need to know more about the Evans family.

Tarawyn
November 10th, 2002, 10:53 pm
Puffskein, now that you mention it...that does prove for some examination. Excitement isn't the first thought that would come into a person's mind when their world is turned upside-down, and for Muggles, there really is no way to avoid this. Even with a teacher, or a person of some sort, to verify the truth for Muggle-borns, excitement isn't so likely.

Would it be possible for one or both of Lily's parents to have come from relatively long lines of Squibs, knowing their heritage but being alienated from it? If that was so, the excitement would be explained, and I suppose squib-after-squib-after-squib would, eventually, simply qualify a person as a Muggle. There really isn't anything to base it on, though. The Evans are going to have to be covered in future books.

Fuchsia
November 10th, 2002, 11:05 pm
The long line of Squibs is possible. How did Hermione and Lily and other muggle-borns get the genes?

Cat
November 11th, 2002, 2:06 am
Originally posted by Tarawyn
Puffskein, now that you mention it...that does prove for some examination. Excitement isn't the first thought that would come into a person's mind when their world is turned upside-down, and for Muggles, there really is no way to avoid this. Even with a teacher, or a person of some sort, to verify the truth for Muggle-borns, excitement isn't so likely.


Regular parents wouldn't be excited that their child has special abilities and the resources to improve them?

Sam
November 11th, 2002, 3:13 am
I'm going to have to agree with Cat here. I think that they would have seen that she had some sort of special abilities-and being good parents, they would want to help her foster her talents.

Rowena Ravenclaw
November 11th, 2002, 3:26 am
Re: the pure-blood issue: two wizarding parents probably isn't enough; one has to be "clean" at least two or three generations back. That was the system under slavery and Nazi Germany, among others, and it wouldn't surprise me if that's what Rowling's got in mind.

As for Petunia being a squib, I doubt it. Maybe the Evanses were glad to have an explanation for why strange stuff always happened when Lily was upset, or maybe they were just really big fantasy fans. ;) Besides, why couldn't Filch be the one whose powers manifest themselves late in life, or even someone we haven't met yet?

timmay
November 11th, 2002, 4:05 am
i supose theres all ways a genetic lottery in efffect, but isnt the point of magic tht it is just that, magic.
but i do like tyhe happy theories over the scientific ones.
to look too far into genetics takes away something.
ive always wondered who taught humans magic in the first place..we gonna follow the j.r.r.tolkien theory and say tht the first borne (high elves) taught them then moved on??

lanifiel
November 11th, 2002, 4:59 am
Interesting point timmay. However, I think that the answer, like most things, is right in front of us. No one taught humans to use magic, it is just a gift that certain people have, and others dont. Like Harry in the first book, these people more than likely made things happen when they had great need or great desire, and that evolved into magical knowledge which is of course passed down to others who show talent...

timmay
November 11th, 2002, 5:10 am
himm but id like to think that there was some intelligent life around well before humans turnd up.

Fuchsia
November 11th, 2002, 5:21 am
Originally posted by timmay
himm but id like to think that there was some intelligent life around well before humans turnd up.

Hmm could be. Did the magical creatures come before the wizards?
I think so. And how different was life for them then? I'm guessing it was better.

lanifiel
November 11th, 2002, 5:32 am
Maybe then the magic was born into all humans and all animals but after time distrust grew. Certain animals were domesticated and rendered non magical through breeding, the same could of happened to humans as well with muggles expanding more across the world faster and in greater numbers because they were less in contact with the world through magic...

Justin Etre
November 11th, 2002, 4:03 pm
Like the salem witch trials, Ianifiel?
I don't think so somehow, that was just just mass hysteria abused by women who wanted to 'off' other women in the village by saying they were sent by the devil etc.
I don't think that any witch or wizard would have died at the hands of a muggle because they could have just used some unfocused magic without their wand like Harry when he blew up his aunt marge (good one Harry). Therefore I put forward the idea the the number of witches and wizards has remained stable, yet it appears in more modern times that there may be more because people are more open to accept who and what they are.

mystically_mad
November 16th, 2002, 12:18 pm
i honestly dont think that petunia is a squib. in one of the books hagrid and harry are talking and hagrid says something like:' some of the best wizards and wiches came from muggle families. look at your mum for instance" or something along those lines. i had a look in the book but couldnt find it straight away. all the other things that have been said, like harry telling riddle in COS and petunia saying 'As if [her and Lily's parents] were proud to have a witch in the family', well i think that sort of backs it up. i would like to kow if there is any evidence that petunia is a squib. also, someone said that lily was a death eater. where did that come from?

LewsTherin
November 18th, 2002, 7:32 pm
OK, I doubt this has been covered, but if it has, my apologies to all.

I was busy playing the CoS PC game and a thought struck me; "Hey didn't Petunia say that her parents were proud when they found out Lily was a witch?" I thought about it a bit more, and the consequences are quite something.

Firstly, we assume Lily to be muggle-born or at least a half-blood, based on what Voldy said in GoF. However, Voldy is not a good source of information, as we have seen numerous times that he does not know everything. He is the type of person to lie to gain an advantage (he did it in PS and CoS). Thus, his statement leaves us in doubt.

Let's look at what Petunia said (pg 44, PS, UK Paperback Edition), qoute, "But for my mother and father, oh no, it was Lily this and Lily that, they were proud of having a witch in the family!" This seems a strange reaction from them. Consider that Muggles are uneasy around Wizards, the Grangers are a good example, so why are Lily's parents "proud?" Shouldn't they have been scared or at least shocked?

Here's my theory. Lily's parents, either one or both, were wizards, and I'm leaning toward believing that both were. Both knew of Hogwarts, having most likely gone there themselves. Thus, they were proud when Lily got her letter.

But what does this make Petunia? Any guesses? No? It makes her a squib! This would explain her hatred towards Lily and her seeming knowledge of the magical world (since her parents would have talked about it). She was jealous that Lily could do magic and that she could not, and jealous that her parents paid more attention to Lily than her. It's even possible that Lily's parents were dissapointed that Petunia was not magical - and showed it. This attitude lends weight to the theory that Lily's parents were wizards.

My theory is based on guesswork, and the proof is mostly in Petunia's attitude towards Lily, but I believe it to be a valid theory.

Consider also JKR comment that someone surprising is going to learn that they can do magic. Petunia is a prime candidate.

Then again, any parent would be proud of their child. So, make what you want of my theory. :)

JoFaye
November 18th, 2002, 7:54 pm
No evidence that I know of, and I agree it's hard
to believe.

Lioness87
November 18th, 2002, 8:46 pm
This theory has already been posted, and is currently positioned right above this post. It's entitled "Aunt Petunia a squib?"

I would post a link, but i'm not quite sure how yet...can anyone help?

Huntingdon
November 18th, 2002, 8:54 pm
Link here (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1916&pagenumber=2)

You just need to copy the URL from the thread and paste it in the new post.

Springy
November 18th, 2002, 9:05 pm
No, I think that Petunia was just jealous of Lily because she got all the attention and Petunia got nothing. She probably made up some story for Veron, which made him hate wizards and witches!!!

Caenne
November 18th, 2002, 9:13 pm
You know, I've thought about that idea quite a bit too, but I've come to the conclusion that she can't be a Squib, based on her character. What does Petunia Evans/Dursley want most in the world? To be normal. Pleasantly, boringly, nosily normal, not standing out from the society around her. If she was raised in a wizard household, she would want more than anything to be a witch, because that would be what was 'normal' and she would do whatever she could to fit into it and not stand out. Maybe one of their parents was a Squib and married a Muggle, which could explain why they would have known about the wizarding world, been proud of Lily being a witch and Petunia resents her for messing up her nice little Muggle world.

Springy
November 18th, 2002, 9:18 pm
Ok, take Hermione parents for example. They are Muggle-born. We don't know a lot about them (hope we do though in future books) but what I have heard is that they were really proud of Hermione being a Witch.

Petunia is just jealous because she wants the attention, the limelight and wants her parents to be proud of her. She probably thought that her parents were taking her as the second best child because when Lily comes home, she can show her parents many things that they haven't seen before and thats why they are so proud of her.

lanifiel
November 18th, 2002, 9:45 pm
Yeah, I think its more wow we have a witch and shes been accepted into the highest school of Witchcraft and wizadry, its something that you would be proud of, just like your son or daughter being a doctor or something, its like one of those things/jobs/callings that when the parents find out about they are excited. They might never be able to tell anyone about it but they know their daughter has something better than other kids...

rotsiepots
November 18th, 2002, 10:05 pm
The usual way in which "sibling rivalry" works is that the older sibling establishes a benchmark and the younger sibling desperately tries to keep up. In general, the older sibling overshadows the younger.

In terms of Lily and Petunia, I think this norm was reversed. I have a funny feeling that Petunia is the oldest and was incredibly jealous when Lily received her letter and realised that she could do nothing to compeat with her acceptance to Hogwarts. Of course her parents would have been proud and probably somewhat relieved; if Lily had been displaying "abnormal" abilities from a young age, her parents were probably grateful to learn that she wasn't just "odd" and that there was an entire community of people with the same abilities that she could blend in to.

I genuinely think that her parents were Muggles. It's mentioned throughout the books that Harry is a half-blood, not only by Tom Riddle/Voldemort but by Harry himself, Hagrid and Dumbledore.

Caenne
November 18th, 2002, 10:53 pm
sigh...Harry is NOT half-blood. His mother is. Harry is a pureblood wizard - he had two wizards for parents

BCD
November 18th, 2002, 10:54 pm
The big surprise that Aunt Petunia holds for us, I think, IS that she's a aquib. Or that she witnessed her mother's death and blmaed Lily, because she was a witch, and if she was never brought into the family, it never would have happened.

rotsiepots
November 18th, 2002, 11:07 pm
I don't understand why this is such a contentious issue. Harry IS a half-blood; this is established in CoS and various other characters mention this fact at sporadic intervals.

It seems that "blood status" is established in the magical world, not by direct parentage, but by overall genealogy. Because Harry has one muggle side of his family and one magical side, he is considered a half-blood. I don't know how many generations have to evolve before a wizard/witch is considered a "pure blood" but suffice to say that Harry is, most definitely, a half-blood wizard.

His mother (Lily Evans) was a muggle-born.

Tarawyn
November 18th, 2002, 11:12 pm
Rotsiepots, as of that, I agree. There is too much emphasis on the bloodlines for Lily to have been the daughter of a wizard, or witch.

However. It seems strange that her parents were so proud, really. Would it be possible for one or both of them to have been descended from Squibs--say, five, six generations back. In that case, it would have been likely that their parents or grandparents had told them something of the wizarding world, had passed it down so that they wouldn't forget, and, in that case, they would be proud of "reclaiming" heritage, or whatever. It would have been a little surprising, but pride would have surpassed the surprise. And, by wizarding standards, that probably would make them equivalent to Muggles.

Other opinions?

BCD
November 18th, 2002, 11:46 pm
I just wanted to go get something to sort of back up what I said. This is most likely a rumor, but I strongly believe something along the lines of it will happen

From iharrypotter.net:
- (From HPFan88) Here is part of the offical Bloomsbury summary of Book 5—the beginning at least, my dad got a copy of it a few weeks ago, Harry Potter: And the Order of the Phoenix, another working title was (Harry Potter: and the Pyramids of Fumat).
- (From HPFan88) "The book starts with a brief introduction to Mary Evan's, the mother of Lily and Petunia Evans... One day she was @ home w/ her two daughter's away, (Lily was 15 + Petunia was 16) when a strange man met her. He had black hair and was extremly tall... This was Lord Voldemort of course.... He talked to her and coaxed her into going w/ him to talk about Lily and a "job offer". He took her using a mode of transportation known as "tranaoption" to a dark labrotory... He then locked her up and told her that she was now going to be used in luring lily, to there ultamate plan, "Tom" revealed himself to be Lord Voldemort and told her that she was going to be lure to bring lily to them where they could extact a great power in which she was would be "opened".... We then see a younger Lucius Malfoy of about 20 years old go and take Mary to a cell.... We then here Voldemort telling Lusius to kill the other daughter..."

I assume that Lily's mother was killed, and Petunia was almost killed, and Lily was as well. So, Petunia hates magic because of Lily being at witch (which would be the cause of their mother's death)

JoFaye
November 19th, 2002, 12:18 am
That is unbelievably totally cool. BCD congratulations!

BCD
November 19th, 2002, 12:28 am
Thank you :D

mystically_mad
November 19th, 2002, 2:49 am
wow thatis cool.where did you find it?

BCD
November 19th, 2002, 2:55 am
www.iharrypotter.net

I know it's a rumor, but it's a rumor that I believe. It just makes sense to me :shrug:

mystically_mad
November 19th, 2002, 3:33 am
i dunno it seems a bit farfetched to me but it is cool

Fuchsia
November 19th, 2002, 6:14 am
As far back as they can trace you is probably how pureblood you have to be.
I'm assuming that the American purebloods go back to the Mayflower.

Caenne
November 19th, 2002, 6:19 am
No, I KNOW I read in one of the books, probably the second, that Hagrid tells Harry something along the lines of What are you worried about, you're not Muggle-born or you have pure blood or something to that effect. Either that, or I've spent so much time reading the things that I have officially gone insane and am making things up and believing them to be true. Either is possible, but my boyfriend has my copies of the first two books, so I can't prove it either way.

timmay
November 19th, 2002, 6:47 am
i could support tht.

a traumatic experience turning her away from the magic world.
but there is not anything to compare to how other muggles who have witches and wizards in the family react to the magic world.

are they allowed to know about magic?

Or do they get their memories wiped after their visits?

pasalita
November 19th, 2002, 7:28 am
Originally posted by Tarawyn
Rotsiepots, as of that, I agree. There is too much emphasis on the bloodlines for Lily to have been the daughter of a wizard, or witch.

However. It seems strange that her parents were so proud, really. Would it be possible for one or both of them to have been descended from Squibs--say, five, six generations back. In that case, it would have been likely that their parents or grandparents had told them something of the wizarding world, had passed it down so that they wouldn't forget, and, in that case, they would be proud of "reclaiming" heritage, or whatever. It would have been a little surprising, but pride would have surpassed the surprise. And, by wizarding standards, that probably would make them equivalent to Muggles.

Other opinions?

Okay, first off, sorry to do this Marcellus: But, I'm going to have to merge this thread with the "Aunt Petunia - A Squib?" thread because, in effect, they discuss the same idea.

But, I wanna post first.

Tarawyn really sealed it for me: Perhaps Lily's and Petunia's parents weren't wizards, per say, but squibs. If we get into the whole phylogenetic tree idea, being a squib, on the simplest terms, could mean that magic is a recessive trait and being a squib is a dominant trait. That being said, it would make sense that the Evans' family had generations upon generations of unmagical folk, but at the same time, the possibility of magical offspring is still there, and possibly did occur but at a low percentage, i.e. on occasion.

This could account for the realization made by Lews in his post - that the Evans' were aware of witchcraft/wizardry even though they themselves could not perform magic. I agree with you, Lews, that there's something about the specific way in which Petunia describes (and JK wrote) her family situation. JK has that knack for dropping hints that later become valid curve balls.

:tu: Praise the master theorist, LewTherin!

Caenne
November 19th, 2002, 5:05 pm
Squibs are still of wizard blood, though, so in order to be Muggle-born, one of the parents had to have been a true Muggle. And given that Squibs are relatively uncommon, according to Ron anyway, we know that it would have to be a recessive trait, and being a wizard would be the dominant trait. Therefore, two Squibs could not possibly produce a wizard, especially someone of Lily's supposed strength, because the genes wouldn't be there. Muggles, though, can be carriers of the gene w/o being a wizard, (someone would have had to have been a wizard in their ancestry) and therefore can pass the genes onto their children. And this is all sounding too much like biology class now, so I think I'll go to drafting instead :)

dantares
November 19th, 2002, 6:59 pm
I said Lily is an adopted child. She is not muggle-born as most people assumed her to be. She has no blood relation to Harry. Petunia's parents are good friends of Lily's real parents (and they are magic people) and they decided to take care of Lily for them because something bad happened to them. Thus, they were gald that Lily showed magical powers because she reminded them of their good friends. Vernon is not the one type who would not faint when he heard of Petunia's magic sister. I supposed he would never married Petunia if he had heard she had a sister like Lily. Why did he married her? It's because Vernon's family are all squibs. Thus he is not shocked to see Lily or Harry for that matter. And he must have know Petunia for a long time thus he married her. This explains why Lily is magical but not Petunia since they are not related. Something big will be revealed on the Dursleys. Note it's the Dursleys not the Evans. Thus, the Dursleys are all actally magical. Dudley is the one who would showed magic late in life, I heard JKR said that it would not be Petunia and Vernon because they are far too old, Dudley will be the one.

xxCeceliaxx
November 19th, 2002, 10:23 pm
if Dudly showed powers, would he go to Hogwarts as well? What if HE got an owl from them or a different school ? What would that mean for Harry?

JoFaye
November 19th, 2002, 10:25 pm
Oh, surely not. Please no. Harry is entitled to a place away from
Dudley. Now I'll worry all night. Oh, dear.

Mouse
November 21st, 2002, 1:35 am
i just have a question, what exactly is a squib, its jus somethin i wanna know. i have ideas but im not sure

BCD
November 21st, 2002, 2:13 am
A squib is a witch or wizard that is incapable of doing magic.

Mouse
November 21st, 2002, 3:07 am
o, i thought somethin like dat ,ty

mystically_mad
November 21st, 2002, 9:27 am
i really doubt that petunia or the evanses are squibs and what proof is there that lily was adopted? i can support some whacky ideas but only ones that have some evidence

Sam
November 25th, 2002, 6:55 pm
Hmmm..interesting theory. Where did you hear that one?

*ANGELINA*
November 26th, 2002, 3:06 am
It sounds reasonable Timmay,

Petunia probaly loathes it [magic] so much because she can't do it.
Jealousy can be a vicious thing.:smile:

doubledotties
November 26th, 2002, 3:37 am
I think it could go either way.

Petunia COULD be a squib, and she's just hiding the fact that her parents were wizards. That does leave other things open, like maybe Voldemort didn't have to kill Lily because she was his niece or something. This is all kind of confusing for me to write about....Harry wouldn't really know what old Voldemort looked like (so he wouldn't know during the Mirror of Erised part). (But this also comes to mind—the Riddles at the beginning of GoF. Could that have been Lily and Petunia's grandparents? Or was it just Tom Marvolo Riddle, Sr.'s new family? It could have very well been Lily and Petunia's maternal grandparents.)

But my stronger opinion is with Lily being Muggle-born, because I think that James is the heir of Gryffindor. Then Voldemort wouldn't have had to kill her, because she wasn't part of the whole Gryffindor/Slytherin debacle.

But wait...what if Lily was also a heir of Slytherin? I am so confused now. Does anybody understand what I'm trying to say?

Caenne
November 26th, 2002, 6:29 am
It bothers me that JK would go to such lengths to set up the fact that Lily was Muggle-born, just to pull it out from under us. I think people she's written as Muggles will stay Muggles and people she's written as wizards will stay wizards

mystically_mad
November 26th, 2002, 7:31 am
Originally posted by Caenne
It bothers me that JK would go to such lengths to set up the fact that Lily was Muggle-born, just to pull it out from under us. I think people she's written as Muggles will stay Muggles and people she's written as wizards will stay wizards

she hasnt actually confirmed that. i hope that too, caenne

Sam
November 30th, 2002, 5:38 pm
Originally posted by Caenne
It bothers me that JK would go to such lengths to set up the fact that Lily was Muggle-born, just to pull it out from under us. I think people she's written as Muggles will stay Muggles and people she's written as wizards will stay wizards

I don't know...it seems to add a certain "flavor" to all of the stories if she brings an aura of mystery into it. The fact that you never really know what she's going to say next is what I love about JK.

It might be cool to have a twist like that come out. Although, I doubt it. Harry will be in his 5th year-and his friends and family are pretty much set. IMO.

Katze
December 1st, 2002, 3:37 am
Hrmmm...

I'm beginning to change my tune. I'm beginning to believe that Aunt Petunia isn't a quib, but is simply a Muggle, just like her parents.

However - I do think someone besides Filch is a squib. I think it might be Vernon. Afterall - how would he even know about the magic world in the first place? He knew about Harry and his parents - so either Petunia told him, or he'd already had his own experience. I seriously doubt Petunia would pass on that type of info to someone completely unfamiliar with the wizarding world.

So I think Vernon is a squib - he more negatively outspoken about the wizarding world than Petunia.

Fuchsia
December 1st, 2002, 4:02 am
If Vernon was a squib then explain Marge?

Husbands and wives do tell each other things. Petunia was so ashamed of Lily but still told Vernon about him because she wanted to complain. Vernon would've done the same.

faubert
December 1st, 2002, 5:21 am
Its possible that both were squibs. Its very possible that the Dursley's are an old wizard family But that Vernon and Marge came from a side of the family that never achieved magic.

Marge and Vernon could of grown up seeing magic but since they never had the abality came to hate the magic world and when they grew up left it.

While growing up they met Petunia who shared there hate though her feelings for Lilly and they became close.

But what if Vernon and Petunia found out from Dumbledore in his letter that they have a special from of magic in then which was degined to protect Harry.

Now they have magic inside them which they hate but its only to protect Harry. So they decide to destroy the magic inside Harry by the way they treat him.

They could feel that if thy destroy the magic in Harry then they will destroy the magic in them. Marge has the same feelings explaining her feelings for Harry.

What they don't know is their treatment of Harry is making him stronger.

Fuchsia
December 1st, 2002, 5:33 am
Then why did Vernon think if HE had a sister like that?
No I don't think he's a squib.

Katze
December 1st, 2002, 6:17 am
Originally posted by Fuchsia
Then why did Vernon think if HE had a sister like that?
No I don't think he's a squib.

He doesn't have a sister like that, because Marge is non-magical as well.

Faubert stated my point of view very nicely! ;)

Fuchsia
December 1st, 2002, 6:59 am
A cousin, father or a brother would be the same thing. Vernon
just thought sister because Petunia is only related to one wizard.

And why did Petunia have the speech about how proud the parents were to have a witch in the family? They'd already have one if they themselves were wizards.

remusjlupin1980
December 1st, 2002, 8:45 am
I don't think neither Petunia nor Vernon are squibs because they would've been familiar with Quidditch and owl posts. In GoF, Vernon doesn't know what Quidditch is, unless he's lying or pretending not to know, he should've at least heard about Quidditch had he been a squib. If Aunt Marge was a squib, then why did the MoM had to perform a Memory Spell on her?

Another question about Petunia: If Sirius was one of Lily's best friends, then how come she didn't recognize him on the TV when they were reporting about him? I guess her resentment towards her sister extends towards not even attending their wedding OR she's hiding something. Quite possibly another deeper reason why Petunia resents Lily.

Fuchsia
December 1st, 2002, 9:14 am
Great points, remusjlupin1980.

Sirius was greatly changed in appearance after those years in Azkaban. If Lily ever brought Sirius home with her, which I doubt, she wouldn't know that was him.

mystically_mad
December 1st, 2002, 11:55 am
yeah. it says in PoA that if harry hadnt known it was sirius then he wouldnt have been able to tell that it was the same person

Moonlight
December 1st, 2002, 3:11 pm
Petunia calls lily a 'freak' but in the magical world wouldn't the freak be her- the squib.....
This makes me think that petunia is a MUGGLE.
WHY?
I don't think anyone would resent magic enough to leave it- even if they didn't have any magical abilities themselves. What about the sneakscopes, the butterbeer, the moving pictures. they didn't need to belong to a 'magical' person!!!!! besides if petunia really wanted to become a witch she could have just done of those courses flich was looking at in CoS.
Besides- who created Petunia? JK Rowling, and what she says goes- if petunia's a muggle, SHE'S A MUGGLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sam
December 1st, 2002, 5:08 pm
I think it's kind of a stretch to think that Vernon has any magical blood.

Nope. He's just a normal Muggle.

Fuchsia
December 1st, 2002, 11:56 pm
The two Creevey brothers both got in but Petunia didn't...
Their family are muggles. They don't have to be squibs to have a wizard in the family.

mystically_mad
December 2nd, 2002, 10:04 am
exactly fuschia.

JoFaye
December 3rd, 2002, 4:18 pm
I think this is interesting, but I'm afraid Vernon and Marge are hopelessly, completely Muggle.

Siriusly_Addicted
December 4th, 2002, 3:54 am
I suppose it's possible that Petunia is a squib, but I tend to think not. I definitely think Vernon and Marge are not. Can you imagine that woman waving a wand around in a drunken stupor? Just think what she'd do to poor old Ripper.

I suspect Dudley might turn out to have magical powers at some point. If the Evans' could produce a witch, why can't the Dursley's produce a wizard? It would fit with Dudley's general character that he's slow on the uptake here, and wouldn't P&V have a FIT if their perfect little boy turned out to be a "freak"? What would that do to their attitudes and inherent predjudices? JKR has said that predjudice is a theme of these books, so the Dudley-does-magic idea would fit.

I agree that it's odd about the Potters being so proud of having a witch in the family, but I'm falling in with the "proud parents/relieved their odd-ball child is not really deranged" camps.

I think Petunia told Vernon about Lily because she knew Lily would turn up "looking like their worst idea of wizards" at some point. What else was she supposed to say? Besides, if he ever talked to James, Vernon would probably figure out something was wrong when James asked, "What's a drill?"

In SS/PS, Hagrid tells Harry that he doesn't come from a muggle family, but I think that refers to the Dursley's; Harry's REAL family were wizards. Hagrid also says that some of the best he's ever know were the only ones with magic in a long line of Muggles - look at Harry's mother and what she had for a sister.

The Potters must have been wizards for at least a couple of generations, because James inherited the invisibility cloak from his father (got that from one of the facts/rumors pages, maybe at Mugglenet). Harry also inherited a vault full of wizard gold, and it obviously didn't come from his mother's side of the family or the Dursley's would have tried to get it. They might not be able to get into Diagon Alley and Gringotts, but I bet either one would be willing to go a few rounds with the goblins for that kind of money.

mystically_mad
December 4th, 2002, 10:56 am
Originally posted by Siriusly_Addicted
In SS/PS, Hagrid tells Harry that he doesn't come from a muggle family, but I think that refers to the Dursley's; Harry's REAL family were wizards. Hagrid also says that some of the best he's ever know were the only ones with magic in a long line of Muggles - look at Harry's mother and what she had for a sister.

The Potters must have been wizards for at least a couple of generations, because James inherited the invisibility cloak from his father (got that from one of the facts/rumors pages, maybe at Mugglenet). Harry also inherited a vault full of wizard gold, and it obviously didn't come from his mother's side of the family or the Dursley's would have tried to get it.

that is the quote i have been trying to remember but my sis has my copy so i cant check. thank.

yeah that is on mugglenet. harry did get the money from james, it says that on mugglenet too

Sam
December 5th, 2002, 5:43 pm
I don't think that the Dursleys have any idea that the money exists. They don't care to know about the wizarding world...and they probably just assume that wizards use whatever currency they do. They have no concept that it is a different world, nor do they care to.

So, I think that the money came directly from James and Lily. They could have had good jobs in the wizarding world. We don't know that much about them. I hope we learn more in book 5.....

mystically_mad
December 7th, 2002, 6:01 am
sam go to www.mugglenet.com and check out the books 5 pages. it tells you alot of things

Rowena Ravenclaw
December 7th, 2002, 7:09 am
Originally posted by Katze
He doesn't have a sister like that, because Marge is non-magical as well.

Or so we think. Maybe she's the one. :p

mystically_mad
December 7th, 2002, 11:17 am
hmm, i doubt it very much

nehaljetha
December 8th, 2002, 4:25 pm
petunia cant be a squib as neville got in even though he's nearly a squib.Well hang on there filch is a sqiub and theres no mention of him going to any wisarding school .:??: he would have had to go to hogwarts as i dont think there is any other school in england.Also lilys parents need not be wisards look at hermione her parents are dentists.

venus1818
December 9th, 2002, 3:22 pm
petunia cant be a squib as neville got in even though he's nearly a squib


Neville is not nearly a squib, people see him that way and he sees himself that way because he is a disaster doing magic. However, I do think that we will see more of him in the next books.

About the "Petunia is a squib theory", I'm confused. I was sure she was just a muggle, but now I don't know. If she is a squib, than that would explain why she resented Lily. But then, why would muggle parents be proud of having a witch in the family? They should at least be shocked. Vernon being a squib? No, that is very unlikely. As someone said, we really need to learn more about the Evans to get to a conclusion.

I know, I was not very original, but that's my opinion.

http://pages.prodigy.net/hpdevo/quiz/ginny.jpg


http://www.jamiefrost.co.uk/whoareyou/topbanner/cat.gifhttp://www.jamiefrost.co.uk/whoareyou/topbanner/po.gif
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www.jamiefrost.co.uk/whoareyou (http://www.jamiefrost.co.uk/whoareyou)

Katze
December 9th, 2002, 3:41 pm
Originally posted by venus1818
About the "Petunia is a squib theory", I'm confused. I was sure she was just a muggle, but now I don't know. If she is a squib, than that would explain why she resented Lily. But then, why would muggle parents be proud of having a witch in the family? They should at least be shocked. Vernon being a squib? No, that is very unlikely. As someone said, we really need to learn more about the Evans to get to a conclusion. I'm along the same thought line as you. Why would the Evans be so proud to have a witch in the family? How would they even know about the wizarding world in order to be proud? I'm not sure I believe that Petunia is a squib anymore, but there is certainly more to the Evans regarding magic. Perhaps a grandparent was magical?

As for Petunia being jealous. I think it could be one of two things. Either the family made a big deal about being magical, and Petunia felt shutout because of it, and this results in hatred and jealousy. Or perhaps the Evans paid more attention to Lily than to Petunia because of all the wonderful stories she had about Hogwarts. I believe Petunia said something like her parents were always "Lily this and Lily that." That implies that perhaps There was an unequal divison of attention given between the two children, and Petunia was on the losing end.

Edwig
December 9th, 2002, 7:38 pm
Well... I'm sure that before or later the Dursleys'll have a role in the magic world, why not? It sounds strange, I mean the story of aunt Petunia who ates so much her wich sister... I don't think it hadn't any deep an' important explanation, 'cause JKR is used to developing any problem more deeply, anything finds a reason somewhere in the 7 books, always, I'm definitely sure of that!
So... I'm really really curious to discover what will come from that!!! :wow: :p :sorry:
What do you think abuot this???

JoFaye
December 9th, 2002, 7:43 pm
J.K. says the Dursleys are coming so there must be a connection. I'm looking forward to finding out what it is, but I don't think Petunia is a squib.

Xikum
December 9th, 2002, 11:51 pm
I think that the one JK refers to as being one of the rare ones to do magic late in life is likely to be either Filch or Petunia. Personally, it would be gratifying if it were Petunia...1) from the prejudice perspective---the Dursleys would then have to re-evaluate their own values, especially if the magic ended up saving Dudley, and 2) I agree with the other posters that it would explain a lot of the bitterness/visciousness Petunia had, if Lily had other family members that were magical, and the parents liked it, maybe lived through her, wishing they had been...so Petunia would be left-out since she wasn't 'special' like Lily. Sibling rivalry would easily account for the bitterness, just as having some magical family members would account for the Evan's enthusiasm.
~~It Would be cool if it turned out that the Gryffindor bloodline came to Harry through Lily & her mom!!.

Sam
December 10th, 2002, 5:50 am
Yeah...that would sure make people second guess that whole "Lily and Voldemort" theory I've read. And it would show that Harry was a true Gryffindor, by birth.

[If you haven't, there's a theory going around that Voldie and Lily were in on something together. By the way, I don't buy it.]

mystically_mad
December 11th, 2002, 8:26 am
neither do i. there is no basis for it

Xikum
December 11th, 2002, 8:35 am
Agreed. The difference in age and dates when they attended school is too great. That's why I Do, however, think it could be Snape that was the third part of a love triangle...It would also neatly explain why Snape hates Harry soooo much....

If Snape were allied w/Voldie 'cuz he lost Lily to James, and Voldie offered her as a 'prize' to Snape after he kills James & Harry,
....then instead killed Lily when she gave her life to protect Harry....both Potter men would be seen by Snape as the cause of the loss of his lady love...And put a chill on his enthusiasm for Voldie, simultaneously.
Maybe Snape's reactions are not logical, but we've already seen Snape isn't very logical when it comes to his perceived 'wrongs' at the hands of others...we saw how he almost called the dementors to take Lupin & Black in V3.

But back to squibs. Do you think there'll be more than 1? My vote is still for Petunia, with Filch as a second candidate...the thing that interests me is, it seems DD has his eye on many things, so keeping Filch around may be because he suspects Filch may 'pop' one day, and wants to have him around when he does??

JoFaye
December 11th, 2002, 3:43 pm
Xikum, you are a genius. I have said that I think Snape had a crush on Lily for ages. But I never thought about a deal with Voldemort to get her for himself.

JoFaye
December 11th, 2002, 6:07 pm
I think if any of them, it will not be Dudley.............you know I honestly just changed my mind as I was typing this.

Maybe it will be Dudley because Harry will be so much more powerful than he is, he will just eat worms and that is how Harry will triumph over the dreadful Dursleys.

Sam
December 11th, 2002, 6:16 pm
Originally posted by Fuchsia
A cousin, father or a brother would be the same thing. Vernon
just thought sister because Petunia is only related to one wizard.

And why did Petunia have the speech about how proud the parents were to have a witch in the family? They'd already have one if they themselves were wizards.

You know, I've always kind of wondered that myself.

Xikum
December 11th, 2002, 7:02 pm
That's a thought about Dudley....I never even considered it, but it does make sense.
Since Lily was a witch, Petunia, if She's not the one to show power, does at least likely carry whatever gene(s) make one magical. If avoiding extreme upset or fear helps prevent the capability from manifesting....hmmmm. Add that to the fact that for the most part, when there is an Extreme negative reaction, as in Petunia & Vernon's reaction to magic, it is often because that very thing is being repressed, quite strongly at that!!
But, given Dudley's proclivities, don't you think he'd be Slytherin?! It wouldn't be the first time siblings wound up in different houses!!
What do we know about Vernon's side?? No way is his sister a witch, but I've often wondered what part the Colonel (or whatever, her friend) plays---does he have a familiar name in the wizarding world?

Oooooo, another wierd option to present Re: Lily/Snape/James triangle: What if Snape & James were related? They do look somewhat alike. Cousins or some such?? From different sides of the family, so different loyalties, and don't get along well anyway?...Then they both go for the same girl....Oooo, that would make a mess, wouldn't it?

JoFaye
December 11th, 2002, 7:19 pm
Xikum another great idea. James and Snape related. Family loyalty(saving Harry) opposed to a real dislike (personal level). I like the way your mind works.

harryton
December 11th, 2002, 10:52 pm
Aunt Petunia might be a squid, since Lily was able to do magic, i would guess.

huffellpuff
December 11th, 2002, 11:21 pm
I don't think Petunia was a squib because her parents were muggles. I do however, believe that she is the one who posseses magical powers and her will be revealed in later books. Obviously she was jealous of Lily and vied for her parents attention - maybe this will make her like Harry a little more? If not her - that what about Dudley? We can't rule him out.... How funny if Mummy and Daddy's perfect "Dudders" was a wizard???

Agataka
December 12th, 2002, 1:29 am
I think Lily might be a squib, Lily was a witch, and Hermione has Muggle Parents and she is a wizard. And i have one further question. Isn't it MuGblood not MuDblood??

Elangomatt
December 12th, 2002, 1:34 am
Originally posted by Agataka
I think Lily might be a squib, Lily was a witch, and Hermione has Muggle Parents and she is a wizard. And i have one further question. Isn't it MuGblood not MuDblood??

Petunia is the possible squib, not lily. The derogatory term for muggle-borns is mudblood. (mud is dirty so it is dirty blood. Mug does not make much sense)

Agataka
December 12th, 2002, 1:44 am
hehe, oops ! i was os confused. Oh i meant to write Petunia, but it came out Lily i guess... but i meant to write that petunia could be a squib becuase Lily is a witch. Maybe she was just jelous that she did not get chosen to be a witch, and she started hating magic after Lily got to become a witch.

Elangomatt
December 12th, 2002, 1:49 am
I figured you meant petunia :) What you said is pretty much a condensed version of what some of us believe (me included I think).

timmay
December 12th, 2002, 5:38 am
lilly a prize for snape... hmmm dont think so that is a little too weird, and or sick.
but it is possible that snape had a deep crush on lilly even loved her and that caused him to switch....but wait snape was informing before voldemortes death. maybe from when snape found out that voldemorte was out to kill james and there fore put lilly in danger, is that the point that he turned

Xikum
December 13th, 2002, 3:59 am
That would be a nicer thing to do, more ethical...it IS Snape we're talking about, right??
As for sick & twisted, VOl. went & took over a little girl, & was going to kill her to get himself a body. How twisted is that? I wouldn't put it past him to use Lily as a 'prize'. But you're right, and it IS a bit of a relief! If Snape did begin informing a year or so before V. killed the Potters, it could be that Snape was regaining his ethics, coming back to his senses...and he won't betray DD's trust. One thing still bothers me, tho'---how Harry says that V. seemed familiar, like a friend he had known long ago as a very young child. ....Quite a tease, JKR is!!!

Ewww, what it it's Snape & Lily, not Snape & James that are related?? What if he detested James, but cared for his cousin Lily. Due to their history, he believed that James would do Lily wrong. He didn't mind that V was going to kill James, but realized that Lily would not allow her son to be killed. Harry was about 1 year old when his parents were killed, right? Well, so, when Snape found out V was going to Kill Both James & Harry, he decided to go back to DD's side, to try to prevent that from happening. He was deeply upset when V killed Lily....but still blamed James & Harry, since were it not for them, Lily would still be alive? How's THAT for another scenario?

As much as I WANT it to be Petunia, it would be nice for Filtch to pop up as a wizard!! He wants to be, so much!! Might make him a lot happier person. BUT, Here's a good one:

Have you noticed that it is Vernon alone, not Vernon & Petunia, who come to get Harry from the train station? What if there's something we don't know about Vernon's side of the family...somethng that would maybe provide 2 recessive magic genes to Dudley. BUt, being as he has been protected from any danger and excessive frustration by his parents, he simply hasn't popped Yet. Now, he has been having problems loosing weight, and the students have begun teasing him. Also, he isn't a very good student, so he is at risk for being kicked out of Smeltings & being sent to the very public school that they were giong to send Harry. NOW, he is under a LOT of stress, and .....Buahahahaha (evil laughter) gee, he's a late blooming wizard. Not very powerful, but still, there you are! And now, Vernin & Petunia have to petition the very school that Harry attends for some special exemption, to allow Dudders to come in as a 'late start'.
<evil grin> in advance, sorry for typos. Not gonna fix 'em. Takes too much time on my old 'puter.

timmay
December 13th, 2002, 6:24 am
holly **** batman i hadnt thought of that Vernon turning up on his loansome to pick up Harry could it be because of his inside knowlege?

or just because Petunia cant stand the wizarding world.

but then why would have Vernon not have known about platform 9 and 3/4??
Is this a memory charm at work?

Xikum
December 14th, 2002, 3:41 am
I doubt that he loathes the magical world any less than Petunia. And Harry's her nephew, not his. It only seems fair that she would be there, not Vernon. If anything, she should know More than he, so be better able to negotiate the drop off & pick up at 9 3/4, even tho' she loathes it. But, it's Vernon that drew the lot.
Unless she was there when her sis was dropped off & picked up, and is afraid she'd still be recognized by other classmates of her sister waiting for their kids...after all, they'd be grown parents just as she's a grown woman...
But something in me just Really likes the Idea (my own, nowhere in the books) that Vernon knows more than the typical muggle. Maybe what drew he & Petunia together is that they have similar backgrounds...being muggles but with some wizarding blood in their backgrounds, both bitter 'cuz it wasn't them who drew the magic?

I don't think he really didn't knew about 9 3/4, after all, Petunia had to know, with her sister going for 7 years. And being married, they must talk. They came up with the car accident story, and planned what to do about Harry, to keep him as ignorant of the wizarding world. ... I think maybe they can't use it, don't know how to tell Harry to get onto it, and really would prefer he couldn't or that he would miss the train. But they also know there will be others there who could tell him, if he could figure out who to ask. After all, with what had just happenned to them when they tried to avoid the letters, and Hagrtid showed up, and then the episode with their son Dudley, just for eating H's b-day cake, you don't think they wanted to risk being blamed for Harry Not getting to Hogwarts, do you?

hott_guy_1989
December 18th, 2002, 3:41 am
I think she might be. And right now I only have one therioe to support that, it clearly states in the Facts that something will happen to the Drusleys that is unexpected. What if aunt pet. gets mad and blows things up and other strange things happen when shes around. That could be the unexpeted turn that happens to the drusleys that we wouldn't expect.

Katze
December 18th, 2002, 4:06 am
Well - Rowling said that something is coming with the Dursleys - something that we might not expect. I'm not sure she meant anything to happen to them, but by the 4th book negative things were happening - especially to Dudley with his diet.

I'm thinking the Dursley might seek saftey at Hogwarts - wouldn't that be scream?!

DogStar87
December 18th, 2002, 4:12 am
The Durlseys would seek protection just about anywhere EXCEPT Hogwarts, unless something so terrible happens to them, caused by some terrible, ordinary Muggle people, that their "ordinary" protection is not enough for them, God forbid, they'll find out that magical ways do have their benefits over "normal" ones. :rolleyes: However, if Petunia did indeed have magical blood on her side of the family, I'd see no reason why she'd be *scared* of magic, though I could understand her resentment of it.

Ashkins
December 18th, 2002, 4:20 am
I don't think Petunia is a squib..

My reasoning is her parents were proud to find out she was a witch yet Petunia was the only one to see her for what she was.. a witch. Wouldn't she also think the same as her parents or parent if they were magical??

Xikum
December 18th, 2002, 5:33 am
Not if she was jealous. That ol' sibling rivalry thing. Some families get along great. Some, not so hot. GIven the general favoritism & behavior of her current family. That may'have been the case for Petunia/Lily & parents.

BTW, I know it said somewhere that Lily was 'mudblood'. Does that include families w/1 magic & 1 muggle parent? or Only 2 muggle parents?? Since they were proud of it, that seems to me that they knew about the magical world, so likely they had a mixed bag of relatives, some muggle, some magical. Mixed blood would likely result in mixed inheritance of characteristics!!
For example: Someone can have parents with type Ao and type Bo blood, and be type oo themselves!! The o's came from somewhere!---the previous generation, ad infinitum to when the first magical person linked with the first muggle in the line, unless a new mutation developed.
So, at what point does a person be considered a 'squib' vs. a 'muggle'? How much magic or muggle is needed to tip the scales??? Yes, is this a series that addresses racism OR biology!? LOL

lj
December 20th, 2002, 3:04 am
When you read the first book and Lily's parents found out she was a witch, they couldn't believe it and felt so proud for her talent; their reactions show Petunia can't be a Squib (they would have to be pure-blood), so I very much doubt she was anything but muggle-born. I believe Vernon didn't know anything of magic, but is freaked out by it, they want to be normal and respectable, and be in control.
I agree with Katze, Harry wouldn't have been taken in if they could've helped it; it was something to do with Dumbledore and his letter.
It has also been said (I forget which book) that James was pure-blood.
I don't think Harry has a Secret-Keeper at all, wizarding people know where he lives.
It is also implied in the G of F that the 'old crowd' worked with and knows a lot about the Dark Arts.

Nimbus
December 20th, 2002, 5:15 am
Aunt Petunia was definately not a squib. As LJ mentioned, Lily and Petunia's parents reactions revealed that Petunia was not a squib. Also, Harry states to Voldemort in the Chamber of Secrets "my common Muggle-born mother." This proves that Petunia was not a squib, and that the Evans family were muggles, thus Lily was the first witch to come from their family, like Hermione was.

Case closed (just watched CSI)

Anne
December 20th, 2002, 5:18 am
I agree that Aunt Petunia is not a squib, but I find fault, Nimbus, with one of your points. Just because Harry says that his grandparents were muggles doesn't make it true. Harry is assuming that his grandparents are muggles becuase he can't imagine Petunia coming from a wizard family. You have to pay attention to where you get your information from, and Harry is not always a reliable source.

faubert
December 20th, 2002, 5:59 am
I have been reading these posts and something came to me.

WHat if Lily's family USED to be magical. Centuries ago they were one of the major magical families. Until they started giving birth to squibs. Over the years no member of the family ever showed any magical abality.

THey eventually moved into the muggle world and began to consider themselves muggles.

But they still remembered their magical past as wild stories about witches being in the family.

Now all of a suden Lily is born and she becomes the first member of her family in centuries to have magical abality and gets her Hogwart's letter.

The whole family is proud of her and thoughout the wizard world the news of Lily's abality is just as big as Harry's scar.

But Petunia is jealous. She has no magical abality and comes ot hate Lily and magic.

In book 5 I predict that during the summer strange magical things keep happening. The Dursley's keep blaming Harry. He is locked up in his room and is forbidden from any contact to his friends.

But Harry comes to realize that it isnt him but that it is Dudly or Petunia who is doing magic without theme ven knowing it. One night he sneaks a letter out explaining what has happened and the Dursley's get a visit from mrs. Figg who explains that she has been sent by Dunbledore as a resonse to harry's letter.

She explains the Evan's history in the magical world and tells them that Harry isnt the only magical Evans. That one of them is magical also.

And then there is the fun of what happens to that person.

remusjlupin1980
December 20th, 2002, 11:49 am
Interesting theories there, Faubert.

JoFaye
December 20th, 2002, 3:47 pm
I love the theory, faubert.

Xikum
December 20th, 2002, 11:54 pm
I would dearly love to be a fly on the wall watching that one!!
I always figured that they Knew about some magical heritage, but were in denial---didn't talk of it among themselves and hid it from Harry. BUt, it would be another good option if Part of the family were honest about it & wishful for it, and Part of the family...Petunia & fam., were bitterly closed to it. To have one of them be the ones to 'get magic' would be sooo funny!! and ironic.

You-Know-Her
December 21st, 2002, 6:40 am
harry is a PUREBLOOD!! Am I missing somthing? Both his parent went to hogwarts! does it matter about Lilly's Parents?

Elangomatt
December 21st, 2002, 10:48 am
Originally posted by You-Know-Her
harry is a PUREBLOOD!! Am I missing somthing? Both his parent went to hogwarts! does it matter about Lilly's Parents?

Yes, it does matter alot. It is true that Harry is a first generation pure blood. Most or all of the purebloods that they refer to as pureblood are magical through many many many generations. Remember in Chamber of Secrets that Justin's friend told Harry that he was a pure blood and his lineage was magical through at least 10 generations or something like that. To the pure bloods, especially those like the Malfoys, Harry is believed to still have dirty blood (assuming you don't believe this thread), although he is still probably thought better of than Hermione, who is totally muggle born.

gred&forge4ever
December 22nd, 2002, 12:22 am
I think that aunt petunia could be a squib. As others have stated, that would explain her resentment of Lily.

I think Vernon is FAR less likely, but that Petunia felt that she had to tell him the truth before they married in case her family made an appearance. :lol:. He is clearly SCARED of Magic.

I do think that Dumbledore's letter is the key to answering the following questions:

1. Why did they take in Harry

2. Why Voldie can't touch him on Privet Drive I mean Muggle killings were common in his time right? I think that In addition to Mrs. Figg(who I believe was the DADA teacher until DD sent her to live 2 streets over to protect Harry. I think that there must be some enchanment around Privet Drive. Arthur Weasley was able to get the house connnected to the Floo network, so obviuously peopel in the MOM can get in if they want to help Harry. I think that it must be a powerful enchanment, as Siruis, who was suspected of using dark Magic was not able to see Harry until Harry wandered over to Magnolia Crescent.

mystically_mad
December 23rd, 2002, 11:29 am
it doesnt say that sirius wasnt able to see harry until he was in magnolia cresent does it? where does it say that?

Xikum
December 24th, 2002, 6:01 am
No, it definitely doesn't say that!!
Sirius was just coming to see--not contact-- Harry before he went to Hogwarts. He clearly knew where to gol

BTW, Thanks Jo Faye , for your kind compliments!! :o

Who else? I'd like to see the new DADA teacher, who they say will be a woman, be in Snape's age range, and turn out to be someone he likes <3 a lot, and who likes him back, but also thinks Harry's a swell kid. That would give them something to talk about, 'eh .

I'd like to see Sirius & Lupin get partners, too....but that would be just too rosy & sweet, so I guess That'll have about as much liklihood as Voldie getting sentimental and turning good.

Machtyn
December 24th, 2002, 8:03 am
Hmm, strange, I started a new topic, which I thought was different from this thread, but apparently the moderators thought different... anyway...

Ok, I've read in different topics on this board about Harry's status. There also seems to be a lot of confusion on this point. So, hopefully, this thread will put down all the confusion once and for all.

We know Harry's father is a Wizard. He was a champion Seeker at Hogwarts, he was an animagus (self-taught), and other evidences.

So James Potter is definitely a Wizard. But, there is this confusion about Harry's mother. If I recall, Aunt Petunia said that her parents were so proud when Harry's mother, or "that freeak!", was invited to Hogwarts. While this makes Harry's mother a mudblood, it makes Harry a pureblood. There is also some discussion as to whether Petunia is a squib.

By my defintion, which may be incorrect, a pureblood is someone who's parents are a wizard and witch. A half-blood is where one parent is a wizard or witch, and a mudblood is both parents are muggles. A squib is one who is not a witch or wizard and one or both parents are a witch and/or wizard.

My vote is that Harry is a pureblood, his mother is a mudblood (but I have nothing to back that up), and James is... well, I don't know.

mystically_mad
December 24th, 2002, 8:23 am
when you put it like that it makes me realise that petunia most definitely isnt a squib.

xikum i think the new DADA teacher will be mrs figg

timmay
December 24th, 2002, 9:05 am
***??
How so?

How does that effect the equation? First up it’s all based on Harry’s limited knowledge of his family history, which is patchy at best and Petunia’s extremely biased view of her sister, who is very much jealous of Lillie’s talents as a witch.
That may or not be based on Petunias lack of magic either because she is a squib or because she simply is a muggle.
We don’t know. The Creevy brothers both possess magic and come from a purely muggle back ground, that leads me to believe that the chance of one which in a muggle family is almost surly to be repeated in the other children.

So when you add it all up weather ur a Pureblood, half-blood or a mud-blood it really doesn’t mean a whole lot in the case of weather Petunia is a Muggle or a Squib.

Ame
December 24th, 2002, 9:35 am
I had always figured that Petunia displayed sibling jealousy towards Lily. Her parents were thrilled to have a witch in the family. I thought Petunia felt left out and shunned. You know kind of like her parents ignored her for not being a witch, even though she had no control over the matter. I bet her parents loved her just as much, but children never realize their importance right away. She may have wanted more than anything to display some sort of magical potential, but couldn't. So she decided to accept her fate. And to make herself feel better, she choose to look down at magic as something unnatural and wrong.

Hmmm... maybe I'm analyzing this too much. But I do not believe she is a squib, she's just a muggle, who's jealous of her witch sister.

Or... I just got an idea. Maybe she was never fond of Lily being a witch, but her detest wasn't nearly so great until Lily died. Maybe she blames magic and everything to do with it for her sister's death, and decided to distance herself even more from it. That way she wouldn't have to deal with her sister's death. I mean no matter how jealous you get, you can't out right hate your sister forever... I just don't believe that. And yeah, the Dursleys aren't fond of Harry, but I don't think they hate him that much. If that was the case, they could have sent him to an orphanage, made up some lie about a baby being left on their doorstep and thought nothing more of the matter.

Here's one question that I've desprately been wanting to ask. Who's the older sister Lily or Petunia?

Moonlight
December 24th, 2002, 12:19 pm
What I have difficulty beleiving, is how any one can be thrilled to know the his or here daughter/son is a witch/wizard. Even in this modern erea many beleive that magic is evil. If i recieved a letter i would think it was a prank, and therefore i wouldn't reply, the i'd call the police if thousands came pouring down my chimney...
But what I'm trying to say is that if Lily's parents found out she was a witched they wouldn't exactly be happy would they? wouldn't they be proud of the 'normal' girl.
I always thought they were twins ame... but i suppose petunia would be the oldest because she has such a snobbish name- and Lily sounds babyish...

Ame
December 24th, 2002, 7:37 pm
Yeah actually I wondered about that myself. I'd think her parents would have been a little freaked out by owls sending letters saying their daughter is a witch and must attend a magic school. But there are always those people who don't follow the crowd. Maybe they were pretty odd themselves... maybe that's why Petunia is so set on being 'normal'. I mean look at Hermione, her parents seemed to be quite proud of having a witch for a daughter.

I assumed Petunia was the older sister, too. Her name does make her seem like the older sister. I never thought that they might be twins, though. That's an idea. I just thought I'd ask, I hoped that maybe JKR may have stated in some interview or something... you know how people ask her all sorts of questions.

mystically_mad
December 26th, 2002, 7:31 am
well i thought that petunia was the older sister. something about the way she talks about lily getting her letter makes me think she didnt get one on her 11th birthday but lily did a few years later.

ame petunia hated her sister when she was alive. remember the first chapter of PS/SS? it clearly expresses how much she dislikes her.

also, we have to remember that this is a made up world. we cant go thinking about what we would do in that situation because it wouldnt fit in. personally it ruins it for me because i realise that it is imposible.

Xikum
December 26th, 2002, 9:21 pm
M M You're right, I just read in mugglenet that Mrs. Arabells Figg, who was Harry's babysitter when the Dursleys went out of town, IS supposed to be the new DADA teacher!! Should b interesting!

Too bad, tho'. I was Really hoping for a humanizing/mellowing reciprocal love relationship for Snape! Well, there's still sure to be otherr options. I heard that another woman will return, who Used to be S's schooltime sweetheart, just not until a later book. Anyone else read that, or more about it?

mystically_mad
December 27th, 2002, 7:53 am
no where did you hear that? maybe its one of the old crowd lol. nah. how mad would that be!!!

Katze
December 27th, 2002, 5:15 pm
Rowling never stated the Figg would be the new DADA teacher. Rowling stated that we'll learn all about Figg. She also said there'd be a female DADA teacher, but she never equated the two.

Figg being the new DADA teacher is just rumor. It could turn out to be true, because it seems a likley fit, but it is just a rumor.

hott_guy_1989
December 27th, 2002, 6:40 pm
-qoute-I think that aunt petunia could be a squib. As others have stated, that would explain her resentment of Lily.

I think Vernon is FAR less likely, but that Petunia felt that she had to tell him the truth before they married in case her family made an appearance. . He is clearly SCARED of Magic.

I do think that Dumbledore's letter is the key to answering the following questions:

1. Why did they take in Harry

2. Why Voldie can't touch him on Privet Drive I mean Muggle killings were common in his time right? I think that In addition to Mrs. Figg(who I believe was the DADA teacher until DD sent her to live 2 streets over to protect Harry. I think that there must be some enchanment around Privet Drive. Arthur Weasley was able to get the house connnected to the Floo network, so obviuously peopel in the MOM can get in if they want to help Harry. I think that it must be a powerful enchanment, as Siruis, who was suspected of using dark Magic was not able to see Harry until Harry wandered over to Magnolia Crescent--

It clearly states in GoF by voldermort that harry is protected. Here is a close revise of the statement.
He said that now that Dumb. and his realitives weren't around harry had no protection, which means when harry is protected when he is near family or Dumb. that is why he has to stay with the Dursleys cause there family.

mystically_mad
December 28th, 2002, 5:58 am
i think vernon definitely isnt a squib. in an online chat JK rowling said this:
"Does everyone have a little magic in them? Even if they are Muggles? And if not, how did magic start?
I think we do (outside the books), but within my books-- do you really think there's any magic in Uncle Vernon? Magic is one of those odd talents which some have and some don't."

i also doubt that petunia is a squib because of what hagrid says to harry in PS after harry has just met draco malfoy for the first time:
"Yer not from a muggle family. if he'd known who yeh were - he's grown up knowin your name if his parents are wizardin folk - you saw 'em in the Leaky Cauldron. Anyway, what does he know about it, some o' the best i ever saw were the only ones with magic in 'em in a long line o' Muggles - look at yer mum!look at what she had fer a sister!"

Xikum
December 28th, 2002, 11:24 pm
I got that bit in the Mugglenet Facts About Book 5, that they supposedly compiled from her own words...interviews.
They've added a bit to it recently...at least when I last read it, last week, I thought it had some different/additional info from 6 weeks ago.

Black Pheonix
December 29th, 2002, 8:04 am
My guess is that Pertunia too must be possessing magical powers although for some unkown reason she didn't get selected to Hogwarts, but Lily did, this might be a reason why she hates Lily so much...just a dum guess let me know what you guys think about it... :??: :evil: poke:

Mickey
December 29th, 2002, 8:11 am
I suppose it's quite possible for siblings to be different (in terms of having magic or not). It might be unusual, but Petunia could just be a squib. Or, Lily could be the hop-out-of-kin, the only witch out of an entire family of Muggles.

rotsiepots
December 29th, 2002, 8:14 am
Genetics can be exceedingly strange. It is possible for Lily to be a witch and Petunia a muggle just in the same way it's possible for a blonde haired individual to spring up in a family of individuals with black hair. It's all about combining dominant and recessive genes in a such a way so that a particular trait (eg magical ability) is present or absent.

JaLaPeNo
December 29th, 2002, 8:17 am
or maybe it's just cuz lily get the witch gene and petunia didnt...i'm pretty sure there's a thread like this somewhere...

hedwigs_keeper
December 29th, 2002, 8:23 am
there is a similar thread. It's called "Is Petunia a Squib?" That is an interesting thought though. Perhaps Lily was just lucky! :)

dorcasderr
December 29th, 2002, 6:12 pm
Rotsiepots has it right. For example in my family some of us are artistic and some not. I got the artistic talent, my sister did not. Musical talent is the same. In some families EVERYONE is musical...except perhaps one, who feels left out, or it could work the opposite way...

Slytherin_Chick
December 29th, 2002, 6:27 pm
do we know anything about Lilys parents? were thye both muggles or was one of them a whitch or wizard and the othe ra muggle?

but i think that Lily was just lucky and got the witch gene :D lucky duck:D

dorcasderr
December 29th, 2002, 6:31 pm
We really know squat about Petunia and Lily's parents, or any other member of their family either. For example, were there any other siblings...what about the grandparents...cousinsand so forth. i hope in future books that more about BOTH lily's and James's families are revealed.

Slytherin_Chick
December 29th, 2002, 6:33 pm
yea that wouyld be nice.. maybe the thing that will be revealed about Lily will have something to do with her witch status.. hmm..

Ashkins
December 29th, 2002, 6:43 pm
We know from CoS the chamber scene that Lily's was born of muggle blood... not sure if both or just one though.

Elangomatt
December 29th, 2002, 8:23 pm
I am in the "petunia is a squib" school of thought.

One thing I would like to point out is the Creevy brothers. If I remember correctly they have muggle parents, but they both ended up wizards. I don't know if that is common to get two muggle borns in a family or not, but it could be.

gred&forge4ever
December 29th, 2002, 9:43 pm
I am not sure if I think that petunia is a squid. Ron did say that squibs are rare. I do think that petunia may have hidden magical powers that could be revealed in the next book idf her little dudley pokin is in danger, or visa versa. Wouldn't it be kind of neat if dudley went to hogwarts? I mane harry is the most popular kid. dudley would have to totally change. :lol:

Anne
December 29th, 2002, 9:46 pm
I'm gonna go ahead and merge this with the thread about Petunia being a squib. :)

mystically_mad
December 30th, 2002, 9:35 am
it says in book 2 that the dursleys were muggles, people without a drop of magical blood in their bodies

timmay
December 30th, 2002, 9:57 am
Hagrid doesn't say that Lilly's parents were muggles. He only uses the comparison betwen lilly and Petunia to ilustrate that that your whole family need not be magical for you to be a great wizard.

and in support of this book one is full of nigly little things that have since been changed in the other books e.g. that Hagrid "flew" to the hut on on the rock. You can not fly with out a broomstick or someother device which was not in evidence in the mornning because they had to use the boat.
And students being able to do magic outside of Hogwarts (lilly turning teacups into mice)

mystically_mad
December 30th, 2002, 10:00 am
hagrid doesnt say that they are muggles in book two. the narrater does and as the narrater is JK, well i think we can figure it out

timmay
December 30th, 2002, 10:06 am
nope deffinatly Hagrid talking

Ashkins
December 30th, 2002, 3:41 pm
That would be book 1... in book 2 Chamber of Secrects Tom Riddle and Harry discuss his mom in the chamber. Page 316 - 317 in my edition. They talk about being half bloods... orphans raised by muggles.

So its not just Hagrid who speaks of Lily as being born of muggles.

I would lean to beleive that Ginny knows a lot more about Harry than any of us realize.. after all she is from a pure blood family who could tell her the history of his family. Ron might know too but Harry has never asked.

JoFaye
December 30th, 2002, 6:20 pm
Great thought, Ashkins. She tells her twins not to ask him about Voldemort in Book 1, so that would show she was compassionate enough to wait until he brings the subject up himself. It could be that the Weasley children know a lot about Harry's background. Nice catch.

Xikum
December 31st, 2002, 7:42 am
Yes!!! I LIKE the sound of That hypothesis!!!!

mystically_mad
December 31st, 2002, 11:27 am
for your information, tinmay especially but everyone, if you look in chapter 1, the worst birthday, page 9, line 2-3, it says this: 'the Dursleys were what wizards called muggles (not a drop of magical blood in their veins) and it is in the introduction to the book so it is the narrator speaking!!

Xikum
January 1st, 2003, 12:34 am
Good point, hmmm. True, 'in their veins'...that could be just expressing their general attitude, if they had been suppressing it, or if it simply had not yet developed. genetic expression at the time, or it could be just that different parts of the genome are expressed at different stages...Besides, there have been some little changes made from original 'errors', maybe thisis one of those that depend on interpretation.....
OtOH, that would support my 2nd hypothesis that it is Argus Filch!!! And he sooo wants to be magical, that would be really nice for him!! Maybe he saves his cat!! ;)

Slytherin_Chick
January 1st, 2003, 2:16 am
well, actually now that i think of it.. she isn't a squib, because she says in the first book something along the lines of...

"the day she got her letter..blah blah blah.. mother and father so proud because there was a witch in the family"
soo.. they wouldn't be THAT delighted if one of them was of magical blood lines because then they wouldn't have said "we have a witch in the family" because there would have already BEEN a witch in the family.. cuz then there would have been say "2 witches in the family.."do u get what i'm saying? lol

mystically_mad
January 1st, 2003, 7:01 am
yeah kinda.

xikum, i think it would be great if it was filch but you never know.

Xikum
January 1st, 2003, 11:04 am
As per earlier posts: Not if it had been in a previous generation, or cousins...Then it may have been a happy thing, that now, finally again, their family had a witch! ;)

Well, we never can Know, about any of it, until we read the book...I'm growing older waiting for it...not a problem for You, but Me, hey...there's dirt that's younger than I am!
But, that's my vote (s)!

mystically_mad
January 1st, 2003, 11:38 am
Originally posted by Xikum
As per earlier posts: Not if it had been in a previous generation, or cousins...Then it may have been a happy thing, that now, finally again, their family had a witch! ;)

Well, we never can Know, about any of it, until we read the book...I'm growing older waiting for it...not a broblem for You, but Me, hey...there's dirt that's younger than I am!
But, that's my vote (s)!

still that doesnt prove that petunia is a squib, if anything it proves that she isnt a squib.

lol funny, very funny

timmay
January 17th, 2003, 10:36 am
Aunt Petunia not a quib just extremly anti magic because it got Lilly killed so she blames magic and has turned her back on it.

mystically_mad
January 17th, 2003, 10:41 am
you think? i dont think she hates it because it killed lily. i dont see any evidence that she ever liked lily.

timmay
January 17th, 2003, 10:52 am
you see ur family destroyed by something you can easily blame your problems on and think about how you would feal, eg someone who blames there problems on religon after something traumatic so loses their faith.
not saying that this is THE answer but it is a plausible one.

lanifiel
January 17th, 2003, 10:54 am
I think she loved Lilly at one stage but a combination of things turned Petunia against her. For one thing, it was extreme jealousy that she couldnt ever be a part of her sisters world and her parents loved Lilly more because she was special in that way (or so it seemed to her). The other part is that because of this jealousy, she chaged it in her mind that Lilly was a freak and she was glad she wasnt like her, thus she started to hate Magic...

timmay
January 17th, 2003, 10:57 am
could be perhaps we shall find out in just a few short months time..
unless someone manages to "liberate" a copy and publish it on the web.

fan fictions are good, sometime, but i would rather read the real thing even if it was on the web and not in a gorgous hard back, mmmmmmmmmmmm hard back harry potter.

mystically_mad
January 17th, 2003, 10:58 am
she probably did love lily once but i can imagine her hating lily after she got her letter, not because she died by magic

timmay
January 17th, 2003, 11:08 am
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm
Agreed jealousy is a powerful emotion in fact I think I posted agreeing to that theory.

But this is a spin on the theme; perhaps she is the younger child much like Ron who is overshadowed by Lilly's brilliance. Add to that her resentment the happiness Lilly finds with James and her becoming head girl, we all know how catty girls can be at times; perhaps the death of Lilly was the straw that broke the proverbial camels back?

With Lilly dead there was no longer a scapegoat for Petunia to blame her inadequacies on.

mystically_mad
January 17th, 2003, 11:11 am
tinmay you posted this in the other thread you silly dilly

timmay
January 17th, 2003, 11:14 am
i know i fixed it

my bad

mystically_mad
January 17th, 2003, 11:16 am
yeah and i fixed my reply to it lol

SiriusBlack
January 17th, 2003, 12:56 pm
I hihgly doubt Petunia is a squib. She is the type of person who's got nothing nothing to do with magic. Not a single drop of magical blood in her. Remember?

EvilMeghan
January 17th, 2003, 8:18 pm
Originally posted by JoFaye
You are soooooooooo right. One of things I am most
looking forward to finding out is why they took Harry
when they felt as they did.

Is it possible that the Dursleys live in constant fear that if they treated Harry any worse than they did (throw him to the street, for example) that the whole wizarding world would come after them? They felt they had to "care" (not that they really did) for Harry for their own safety.

Elangomatt
January 18th, 2003, 7:25 am
Originally posted by Sirius Black
I hihgly doubt Petunia is a squib. She is the type of person who's got nothing nothing to do with magic. Not a single drop of magical blood in her. Remember?

I am re-reading the books again right now for the umteenth millionth time. One thing that I have noticed this time around is that Petunia obviously does not like the world of magic much, but she doesn't seem to object very much. The only time I have seen that she really is totally against wizards is during her little monologue in the hut on the sea. It is always Vernon that is getting flustered over the wizard part of Harry. He gets on the way to and at work. He is worried about the cat (Prof McGonnagal). He freaks out about the letters from Hogwarts. While driving away from home, he keeps trying to "shake them off". Vernon buys the gun just before they go out to the hut on the sea. The only thing that Petunia does is just being genarally nasty to Harry.

I am not sure what all this means in the context of this thread though. Maybe Petunia feels as animate against wizards as Vernon but she just does not express her feelings about it as much as him, or maybe Petunia found that she can do something magical and does not hate the magical world like she used to since she knows she is part of it.

mystically_mad
January 18th, 2003, 10:12 am
have you read the fourth book yet? where the weasleys pick up harry. she seems to be against the magical world there. also just because she isnt really against it doesnt mean she isnt a muggle. she is a muggle, JK has always said it at the start of the books, that the dursleys were muggles.